The Accidental Tech Podcast

146: Control + Money + Smallness

 

  but you're always sick here here's how I know that I'm going to be second Adam [TS]

  isn't school and it's the winter [TS]

  therefore we are sick of France's persons name you both know this person [TS]

  rate Andreas nothin was one of the many people who read it has that apparently [TS]

  IMAX no longer have IR sensors since around 2012 so people suggesting that [TS]

  perhaps my shiny new 5 k iMac was getting woken from sleep by our panel [TS]

  that's not happening because there's no sensor that's kinda go to in other words [TS]

  this ancient history is that IMAX have not had a IR sensors since four years [TS]

  after your Mac Pro is made that you're still using everyday still working just [TS]

  fine I'm wondering at this point I'm wondering if I can make it ten years but [TS]

  I don't want to just make an external display for crying out loud [TS]

  you make it there they're not going to make the computer you want ever and see [TS]

  if your gonna keep holding on [TS]

  well I just need an external five-game displaying the computer the contrived in [TS]

  an economic the display with no computer the drunken driving in the neck and make [TS]

  sure they can drive with no display so it won't happen [TS]

  the computer that drives it is gonna not have the right kenny gaming card for you [TS]

  and configure its gonna be way too expensive not going to be the right [TS]

  right kind but it'll be acceptable it will be way faster than everything else [TS]

  I have including the one that's built into the iMac goodness did I tell you [TS]

  guys that working out of a client's office for the last month or so and will [TS]

  be for awhile you know as working for a client goes it's pretty good but it's [TS]

  still kind of weird doing the staff fog thing which is not what I'm used to [TS]

  doing but anyway we wait the what the staff blog what does that mean John I [TS]

  have no idea really insulting language you're speaking now I never did [TS]

  consulting [TS]

  Virginia think I'm gonna now it's not a Virginia thing it's a consulting thing [TS]

  staff augmentation so generally speaking the work I do I woulda got that if you [TS]

  pronounce it like a New Yorker I was like staff August Orbis I I thought the [TS]

  OG yeah but you hang out with different views and his staff disabled what you [TS]

  doin stempel fair enough so they have all my clock is ticking like this you [TS]

  know just just as a [TS]

  a random guess here I'm guessing that nobody who has a New York accent thick [TS]

  enough to notice like that would ever say staff like that just the phrase [TS]

  would never use that phrase that's it there's no overlap between the [TS]

  population who would say that phrase and people who would have that accent people [TS]

  are there are consultants and to use the sky so anyway so I'm doing staff log and [TS]

  and basically what that means is it rather than having a group of my [TS]

  co-workers that is working to sought to build a project as a group often in [TS]

  concert with the client yeah we prefer to do it in concert with a client but [TS]

  it's it's a group of us this by comparison is basically I get kicked in [TS]

  the butt over to a client's office and said come back in a few months when the [TS]

  client doesn't wanna pay for your time anymore and so much by myself anyway the [TS]

  reason I actually bring this up is I got issued that god awful del that I had [TS]

  tweeted a picture of the god-awful keyboard and i got to tell you the [TS]

  trackpad is unusable I fiddle with the settings to kingdom come the trackpad is [TS]

  unusable wanna know how anyone uses a Dell but anyway I look around me and you [TS]

  know what I see all over this office cinema displays everywhere [TS]

  drives me insane I want so badly even though I know there's much better [TS]

  displaced we had but I've always just thought they were so pretty and [TS]

  beautiful and they have like a quasi docking station and I want one so bad [TS]

  and they're everywhere they get you have when you plug in all of your firewire [TS]

  400 devices I know right [TS]

  delightful now I am jealous of it I love to have like that you have the internet [TS]

  hanging off their my mic setup at home hanging off their man can dream but yeah [TS]

  so here I am using my Dell with all of these displays a MacBook Pro and MacBook [TS]

  Airs all around me a real consulting if only you had two or three Mac laptops [TS]

  that you could bring one to your clients that's what I do I bring my work laptop [TS]

  so I can't get work email and talk on work [TS]

  etcetera etcetera but it's depressing well it would be more depressing if you [TS]

  really were tied to the idea of listening to your headphones on your [TS]

  iPhone while you are working and charging at same time which might not be [TS]

  possible next year you're jumping ahead jumping ahead I we have more follow-up [TS]

  though I idea I derailed us then you tried to move the train forward let's [TS]

  let's get back on the tracks not too much power of saudi riyal sign there [TS]

  this is from Sebastian routes cruise by the German names today trying to tell us [TS]

  about a little bit of the history behind and DNS responder and discovered he and [TS]

  all that stuff this story is told in a video that is in German so we're getting [TS]

  this translated for us so we'll put a link to the video in the shower nuts if [TS]

  you understand German you can watch it but anyway we're taking this person's [TS]

  word translation apparently the story is about events surf the father of the [TS]

  internet can read his Wikipedia page if you wanna talk about him and dark and [TS]

  tcp/ip and all that good stuff anyway he was at an IETF meeting internet [TS]

  Engineering Task Force MTG and it was set up in his printer isn't working [TS]

  anymore so he called that Tim Cook which thing you can do when your answer and [TS]

  your pissed off about your printer not working and Tim Cook then talk to [TS]

  Stewart Cheshire who is the guy who invented Bonjour formerly known as [TS]

  rendezvous and a bunch of other Apple networking stuff and told him to [TS]

  investigate and eventually they're the ones who supposedly came up with the [TS]

  idea of let's just take out discovered the input Mtns responder and see if that [TS]

  fixes the problem so this is the possibly apocryphal story of what one [TS]

  possible contributing factor to why did Apple iPad Apple know what would it take [TS]

  for Apple to take action and actually fix this problem once and for all this [TS]

  time I was found seriously depressing there's even any a bit of truth it's [TS]

  like well I wouldn't care until then surf called Tim Cook and that's how the [TS]

  message actually got to top that there was a problem I really don't like to [TS]

  believe that these things are true but it does make for a funny story yeah I [TS]

  mean honestly it's plausible based on based on Apple's apparent reaction to [TS]

  the you know all the sudden there's a problem in Apple knows about it suddenly [TS]

  but we've all known about it for years it kind of does seem like whatever [TS]

  system is supposed to inform the high ups [TS]

  about these problems that a lot of people face is falling over somewhere [TS]

  along the way [TS]

  likes that system the the higher ups are measuring something and they're getting [TS]

  data from something but it doesn't seem like most of the actual problems an [TS]

  actual criticism is reaching them and that's a little bit scary big companies [TS]

  are all like that to some degree it's just that you know is the fantasy [TS]

  scenario that that you have as a child that follows many people to adulthood [TS]

  that it like somewhere in the world there are the grown-up people who know [TS]

  what they're doing and like when you become an adult [TS]

  most evil than you realize that that's not the case now I'm an adult I realized [TS]

  no one knows what they're doing right but we hold onto a little bit of that [TS]

  especially for the for the things that we admired like okay my company doesn't [TS]

  know what he's done the higher ups in my company have no clue and my company this [TS]

  functional but surely the richest company in the world the most successful [TS]

  technology company in the world [TS]

  got that way because they're better than my crappy company so even though I [TS]

  understand that yes no no they doing this know people somewhere who are alike [TS]

  in charge and actually understand things surely Apple is at least a little bit [TS]

  different but the big companies like any other big company and its really [TS]

  difficult to organize a big company in a way that doesnt incentivize people in [TS]

  management layers below the top to hide bad news from the people about them [TS]

  because they get raided and judged by how well they're doing and you like it's [TS]

  it's it's in everyone's best interest to some degree to not only do not convey [TS]

  that lossless Lee up the management chain right and so that's why i like it [TS]

  described this as a text from the top down where you would hope that there's [TS]

  lots of other people talking to lots of other customers and stuff about problems [TS]

  and doing all you know the leaf nodes at the org chart to north of things [TS]

  involving customers gathering information so on and so forth but that [TS]

  information has to go up up up the chain and the more level that have to go [TS]

  through the more likely it is to be toned down [TS]

  on or three prioritized or whatever until about time against the top [TS]

  something that is a real problem for most of the end users to delete notes [TS]

  know about but I'ma get the top doesn't seem like that big of a deal so it has [TS]

  to come you know and and the other is human nature of the people the top maybe [TS]

  but surf was not annoyed by discovered he say he was denied by some other thing [TS]

  that just happened to annoy him that might have gotten fixed and that just [TS]

  would have been in service problems so he would have bypassed the entire [TS]

  organization to get the thing that isn't a problem for most of the people fixed [TS]

  and he would be happy and so in some respects the organization is working to [TS]

  try to prioritize things to tell Tim Cook what's really important in this [TS]

  case it just so happened that the top down you know celebrity based fixing [TS]

  also happened to him on the thing that was a problem for a lot of other people [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  companies are messed up to talk about you don't like Mei Casey mark on a [TS]

  little bit strange becomes NKC having worked in consulted for becoming very [TS]

  least have you seen some of this going on where the the lower you get the org [TS]

  chart the more people really know what's going on [TS]

  oh god yes and not at the company on consulting with now but I think we [TS]

  talked about Michelle two years ago but there is a large firm in Richmond that i [TS]

  that i did some consulting for and it was abundantly obvious to me that most [TS]

  of the organizations middle management and most of the organization [TS]

  motor brilliant these middle managers really knew deep down that they were all [TS]

  redundant and so every meeting you are in everyone wanted to be included in [TS]

  everyone wanted to say something really really interesting so everyone around [TS]

  them new Oh Susie isn't expendable because he just said something smart [TS]

  John [TS]

  Bob sorry babe he's expendable because he really say anything this meeting and [TS]

  was just ridiculous because it was a billion middle managers and like seven [TS]

  actual grants to actually get work done here absolutely right point of the story [TS]

  about John Mayer the musician famously emailing bugs in logic directly to Steve [TS]

  Jobs and then they got fixed [TS]

  get an email the logic team get an email as fix this and that's another a test [TS]

  like the worst way to do this by the way like to have a famous person go to the [TS]

  very top of your organization and have the personality organization highly [TS]

  motivated to satisfy the famous person because sometimes the famous personal [TS]

  final the jet bug that everyone's experience but a lot of time the famous [TS]

  person would just be annoyed by some minor issue and why do they get this [TS]

  special treatment like they maybe you know reshaping the application in a bad [TS]

  way for most people just to satisfy John Mayer's this is not scale says I'm not [TS]

  saying like the way it works now with leaf nodes not message not getting up is [TS]

  bad and this is better [TS]

  really you don't need one of those things you want and efficient [TS]

  organization that correctly communicates what's really happening to your [TS]

  customers and how they really feel about your product up the management change [TS]

  without diluting it in a way to protect the reputation of your group or whatever [TS]

  it is that you're doing is a manager to try to say well this wasn't our fault in [TS]

  this isn't that big of a problem and everything we made in this press release [TS]

  is going really well as so give me good rating and a big bonus this year our [TS]

  first budget this week is cards against humanity and rather than a regular [TS]

  sponsor read they asked John to review one last toaster [TS]

  countertop I hope you're gonna study found that toaster in my garage I didn't [TS]

  realize I had that the monstrosity but the big griddle on top of it [TS]

  stuff since I didn't realize I had that toaster at some point during the year [TS]

  you might ask the question of where that is like the average cost for this [TS]

  weekend about you know I don't have a toaster and then they would rush went [TS]

  out to me I would get a toaster and so basically somewhere their account got [TS]

  off so a toaster arrived for this week but I already had toaster so now I have [TS]

  two tests this week and the sentencing on them because this is the last week so [TS]

  this is going to be double toaster [TS]

  this is exciting lucky lucky you the first toaster is the Americana [TS]

  collection 3 in 1 mini breakfasts shop shop with two peas in a hyphen 200 BL [TS]

  and if you look at it looks a lot like the crazy one from the last time the red [TS]

  thing [TS]

  toaster oven it's got a little tiny coffee pot drip coffee pot thing and on [TS]

  top of the toaster it's got a little thing that gets hot but you can cook [TS]

  some eggs or something right [TS]

  the last one when I said that the coffee thing even though the picture you're [TS]

  picturing it like it's a regular drip coffee thing really it's like tiny and [TS]

  also as this one my daughter actually said in the kitchen she walked up as it [TS]

  looks like it's for a doll is microscopic it is incredibly incredibly [TS]

  small obviously the coffee thing is tiny but look at the toaster part of me is [TS]

  you can look at the measurements and try to get an idea for a bit here is the [TS]

  best way I can describe it to our audience the trade at slides inside the [TS]

  toaster is smaller than a magic trackpad too can you even fit one piece of bread [TS]

  on their infant one piece of bread in there it's not too big so you can 22 wow [TS]

  yeah so this is very similar to the old one such a market for these three and [TS]

  one thanks so similar likes of the coffee thing looks like it might even be [TS]

  using some of the same parts that when still does its job you can put water in [TS]

  their heated up pretty quickly dip trip through the filter into the thing is if [TS]

  you like drip coffee this is this is a drip coffee thing it doesn't take too [TS]

  long to boil the water got the same type of thing with top down the sides what [TS]

  heating elements will be on in the bottom line is just a plain time [TS]

  bother but little pictures of light medium and dark toasted is like last [TS]

  time I just heard it good luck to give you any guidance there and it's gonna [TS]

  give you any guidance because trying to toast the piece of toast in there at [TS]

  around five minutes and 50 seconds I gave up not being able to see any real [TS]

  color on the top of the toast and I took it out in the bottom was overdone a [TS]

  practically black in the middle and a top 10 no Colorado that's almost six [TS]

  minutes so as a toaster it fails to talk even though you into one piece of bread [TS]

  in there it fails the test that there is no just over at by the way so I think [TS]

  maybe why the burning on the bottom and click on top maybe doesn't adjust the [TS]

  top thing instead of having a full-size griddle and has a circular 10 same [TS]

  problem as before just doesn't it isn't hot enough for doesn't like I think they [TS]

  promise this time the thermal mass like it's just a thin piece of metal so that [TS]

  when you put the egg on it just sucks all the heat out of the thing in the [TS]

  heating element don't have enough to keep up like I think basically the grid [TS]

  access heatsink for the heating elements dissipating their heat but not into the [TS]

  egg so I was able to go in for one egg on their size of a poached egg thing [TS]

  right so I was able to go on Friday gonna have to say did a better job than [TS]

  the previous one and that one egg I was able to cook it and it came out like an [TS]

  actual I get cooked enough to to stay together and let me flip it over and [TS]

  everything so but really nobody should ever buy this or the other thing it's [TS]

  not good anything that it does things it is adorable dog has been sitting in the [TS]

  kitchen [TS]

  this one even more than the red one looks at our looks like the looks like [TS]

  you have an easy bake oven on you can talk the talk but it really works sort [TS]

  of yet to varying degrees of work I wish you could try the coffee is just got a [TS]

  filter in there comes with the filter makes the water hot it runs it through [TS]

  the filter something a little thing like that I don't see how the machine itself [TS]

  could affect the quality of the coffee coming out of it is it really is the [TS]

  most primitive thing you can imagine all just plastic parts inside there's [TS]

  nothing fancy it is not only the price but is this is like $35 yeah you got me [TS]

  when you're paying for their so I think the main market for this would be [TS]

  Hollywood prop buyers who want to put something in the background of a scene [TS]

  seen in like a cute kitchen apartment in like Manhattan or something [TS]

  would I i really do want to obviously there's a market for these because so [TS]

  many are for sale but I just have to wonder who is buying suckers people who [TS]

  think it's a great way to save counter space I have three things on the same [TS]

  problems like who wants to cut off your toaster oven or toaster ovens usually [TS]

  underneath like their overhead cabinets above the menu making hot steaming onto [TS]

  the bottom you can it's just not a good idea even if it were to win big idea and [TS]

  just us like seriously to can tomatoes one slice of bread in six minutes forget [TS]

  the best thing is this has a four-star average review on Amazon with two [TS]

  hundred and forty reviews how has to be paid for [TS]

  maybe they just don't know how these things are supposed to operate [TS]

  everything smaller than expected but works as promised [TS]

  verified purchase the toaster oven was probably the biggest negative is only [TS]

  one left to fit one slice of break through and it doesn't cost that after [TS]

  six minutes [TS]

  fortunately there is a top burner and a bottom burners you can stack two pieces [TS]

  of bread on top of each other and flip them in the middle of cooking now you [TS]

  can please just like hold your breath over a match its cool I can actually [TS]

  take this with me when I'm on the road to set up in the hotels I stay in the [TS]

  things that the drip coffeemaker the hotel's is better than this [TS]

  ya like it and those are terrible and that we're better than this likes dirty [TS]

  and doesn't fall apart as they have to be in hotel room in hotel bar coffee [TS]

  Wow alright anyway the second one must try to you know bring this back from the [TS]

  insanity of these multifunctional my second one is still a jet toaster oven [TS]

  this is the KitchenAid twelve-inch convection bake digital countertop oven [TS]

  model Casey 0 273 the Euro this one in the chat room for everybody who this is [TS]

  a high-priced when this is $187 yeah this is a fancy toaster oven were back [TS]

  to normal again things first thing you have to know about this is it's really [TS]

  big I don't they look the same size on Amazon I have a pretty big toaster the [TS]

  Breville success TXL this is really big its like the bigger rival did so big [TS]

  that I think it really is beyond what is reasonable for most people's kitchens if [TS]

  you have a really really big house this will be to scale down like when you have [TS]

  like a big impact so it's a lot of interior design you have to scale the [TS]

  furniture to the room [TS]

  unfortunately I like the scale of entry to the people but no matter how big you [TS]

  are you have a really small room and you put a gigantic let puppy love yourself [TS]

  and it will over overwhelm the room simulator you have a cavernous room you [TS]

  up at this delicate little to soften it it won't look quite so this is a big [TS]

  toaster oven so do not buy this unless you have a really big kitchen or you [TS]

  really want to dedicate that much space to install too wide it's the pits [TS]

  humongous I when when I put this on my counter since I have like an arrow like [TS]

  New England ancient countertops opening the door practically that's it there's [TS]

  no space left like this toaster I can open the door and I don't remember the [TS]

  door overhanging the edge of my counter but its close this thing is huge its [TS]

  stainless steel like a picture that is actual standstill not plastic colored [TS]

  stainless steel very sturdy construction I think even handle stainless steel [TS]

  which case they handled it like plastic foam insulation it feels Rogan it [TS]

  appeals to you know it looks nice glossy everything feels thick the the wire rack [TS]

  feels incredibly rugged thick gauge wire it's actually a little metal strip on [TS]

  the front of it everything is very solid the door feel solid opens and closes a [TS]

  little not little rubber stoppers big rubber stoppers on it the the spring [TS]

  tension just right doesn't doesn't wobble Creek three positions for the [TS]

  rack and they have little destruction nothing about where they were [TS]

  for this five heating elements for this thing resistance 2012 plus one of the [TS]

  thicker court style ones on top in the middle of the huge that court like one [TS]

  of those like for power to like a year [TS]

  Makita drill or something like a big three prong cord with a very thick cable [TS]

  and the big character and I know what you guys do those who don't they don't [TS]

  have to go into kitchen like we're living people plug in the toaster oven [TS]

  it's like you're gonna put in and then you're gonna plug it in and the plug is [TS]

  going to be just above your counter right the plug sticks out like three [TS]

  inches from the place where you plug in because it's right it's not they need to [TS]

  make flush mount plugs you know you know there's little doubt it you have to make [TS]

  it like even if the plugged in right behind the toaster because it was the [TS]

  toaster be six inches away from the body was not arrested who wants to see this [TS]

  big thick like hard to manage the power requirements but they climb out of [TS]

  people and they don't see the controls on this one if you look at it are very [TS]

  similar to my bro I don't know who copied who obviously a memorable for us [TS]

  I'm thinking how they copied the devil knows there is an LCD on top a backlit [TS]

  LCD on top showing you temperatures timers countdowns the same type of [TS]

  control for you get the pic a temperature and let you know a number of [TS]

  slices or whatever there's two knobs the first one is the function now from a [TS]

  diff things you can do like toast bacon has things to reheat in bagel that does [TS]

  like you know different temperatures during different phases like resembled a [TS]

  bagel do a lower temperature toasted and towards the end to the top elements only [TS]

  really high to toast the bagel assume it's assuming you have a bagel thin [TS]

  sliced in half and stuff like that it's a different more functions in the [TS]

  Breville for all sorts of things is also a conviction of my hope is one of the [TS]

  reasons suffered a huge gotta fill the convection fans in there so there are a [TS]

  function settings for conviction typing to try to take a whole chicken and keep [TS]

  the air flowing and Chris the skin at the end of everything and then the knob [TS]

  load is the control knob which really is just kinda like the the control knob [TS]

  your BMW's or whatever where it where you just press the Select and turn to go [TS]

  up and down selections in the menu the knobs themselves they are not as widely [TS]

  as they're on the Breville the stock plastic for the night as well [TS]

  much slop they're not made to look like thick metal which helps they're nice and [TS]

  materials then the better ones that are like shiny plastic textured they're [TS]

  still a little bit gritty i'm not the best feeling knobs but they're they're [TS]

  better than the prevalence of their pretty good since the function on the [TS]

  bottom really should just be a disk because it's like turn left turn right [TS]

  to go through a series of options and press in its weird that it has like a a [TS]

  flathead screwdriver type like indentation they want you to pension [TS]

  because there's just been around forever like there's no there's no markings or [TS]

  anything it's really just a jog dial basically and it's weird for a jog dial [TS]

  to have a partner even greater because then it's like when you're done with it [TS]

  when do you leave a deal even pointing up to you like anytime you turn it might [TS]

  change in number on the screen so that's a little weird but I think just over 70 [TS]

  and that's gonna start button on the bottom [TS]

  got a little button for frozen things one of the other but remember off the [TS]

  top of my head on the Connection button to turn it back to the knob feels good [TS]

  so so higher quality than my brother and I don't feel like they're shaking about [TS]

  to come off and they're not fake looking like metal but it really plastic but I [TS]

  think the decision to make the jog dial look positional when it's not really is [TS]

  a little bit off the press it is about it's weird to press the button that's [TS]

  you know that's like a dial you can pinch Coast time four minutes 30 seconds [TS]

  for peace toast not great the rebels little bit faster but the things [TS]

  cavernous like you would like it doesn't take eight minutes and it did it pretty [TS]

  decent job of toasting the convection features I didn't have an opportunity to [TS]

  test because I don't have anything that you cooking connection as I could be [TS]

  setting and stuff so I think you could use as a manager he didn't have an [TS]

  entire chicken to put in there is depicted in this is not as long as the [TS]

  super tall and was so there isn't that much you know I was not as a place like [TS]

  that member the one that the pro built in that you could get a bigger chicken [TS]

  so to categorize this I would say this is most similar to the big Breville [TS]

  which I've never tested by the way and so I assume it's ok because I have a [TS]

  small gravel and people have the big people say it's good but it seems [TS]

  similar in terms of it feels sturdy looks nice it does the job that supposed [TS]

  to do it has enough heating element the heat up that big interior and I guess if [TS]

  you only use it as another number climbed to I think the best things to [TS]

  recommend this the most are the things that I like most about my trouble [TS]

  I like seeing immediately when I press the start button how long it gonna take [TS]

  you know as soon as you put the pieces of toast they say how many pieces of [TS]

  toast and what level of darkness which is a number that you can pick 3456789 [TS]

  whatever darkness you like and when you press the start button and it will tell [TS]

  you they will start counting down from four minutes and 20 seconds or whatever [TS]

  and then you put in the second round bread of someone else wants to start [TS]

  counting down from three minutes and 30 seconds because the thing is heated up [TS]

  you know how long it's gonna take you get to see a countdown it's easy to [TS]

  adjust because they get it they get around the whole problem of trying to do [TS]

  the darkness just because it's a number on the screen really you just using a [TS]

  control to adjust the screen the screen really helps because then you can do [TS]

  countdown show where the numbers up there it's not like a full bitmap [TS]

  display it's you know a bunch of seven segment things among other things but it [TS]

  makes a big difference but not surprisingly useful kind of like that [TS]

  little bit more about that some of us have we're toast bread but actually it's [TS]

  pretty straight out of the freezer so on the same toasting you always want to get [TS]

  a little snowflake button and it was just a little bit more to get a [TS]

  difference it before it goes into the tow cycles so overall if you want to [TS]

  really big toaster and consider haven't tested the really big Breville this is [TS]

  the best really big coaster I've ever tried it is a solid quality product does [TS]

  all the jobs that supposed to do if you as they say if you have the space I can [TS]

  recommend it [TS]

  wow so if you have the means you highly suggest picking one up yet yeah I know [TS]

  it's it's it is a reference since since the last 19 I was making reference to a [TS]

  lot of people have asked about the three homes toaster abuse their number one [TS]

  pick was gonna tell you is that I did you a while back I was the Panasonic the [TS]

  really tall Panasonic 12 really really fast and people asking what do you think [TS]

  of their reviews they do actual product reviews not joke ad products are you [TS]

  think so [TS]

  go read their reviews they actually test them they put a million pieces of bread [TS]

  and all these things my criteria may be different than theirs but I'm not doing [TS]

  the kind testing that doing so please read a review of you really care about [TS]

  customers that said having used the one they picked as a top pick the reason I [TS]

  don't like it I think the UI's weird and I think it's oddly shaped but it does [TS]

  tell us things really fast and really efficiently and does a good job on them [TS]

  but for my purposes I want to be able to put [TS]

  four slices of bread in there are a whole tray full of English muffin pizzas [TS]

  or something and that it won't fit in the toaster is this not big enough and [TS]

  so it doesn't tell me that you eyes it's crazy with the membrane button and all [TS]

  the different functions that the Breville interface interface that is way [TS]

  better but that matters less than them in their rating mostly saying what when [TS]

  the bread comes out looking has it tastes and that goes there that [TS]

  Panasonic coaster toast bread really fast does a good job on it so I don't [TS]

  disagree or agree with their ratings I just know what I wanted to my toasters [TS]

  that's that's what this whole year we've had history views from the Guardian's [TS]

  humanity at this is the last one great adjust their idea fantastic idea we all [TS]

  had a great time and thanks a lot but please no more postings I never did test [TS]

  the top pick the top expensive pic like sweet home has like here's our top pick [TS]

  and they will try to take budget into consideration and they always have like [TS]

  if you have a little bit more money this one's even better if not better enough [TS]

  that we think it's worth it but it's a little bit better and I have not just [TS]

  about to get whatever that toasters I'm actually curious about it maybe if my [TS]

  thing ever dies by the way I didn't say what a couple of months ago this point I [TS]

  did finally opened up my brother and adjustable springs and a nice clothes [TS]

  rather which was a real pain man like I could I literally cannot figure out how [TS]

  to get this post or part without breaking it looked like he got to the [TS]

  spring without actually fully disassembling it but I think any one of [TS]

  those eye-opener things from iFixit like heats up some glue or something together [TS]

  but it is there a lot of screws in it is very solidly constructed so I was just [TS]

  lucky I can get through it to the point where I can get to the spring I just [TS]

  tension goodness how many mysteries reviews you sure you don't want anymore [TS]

  toasters no I just about I think I have like three or four left the ship out [TS]

  here and then place they're just too big to send you small object to review are [TS]

  you diamonds [TS]

  slightly included I see what you did there what are the five things in their [TS]

  forces rather we should probably talk about what went on this week can we talk [TS]

  about the headphone jack business really quickly blew it let's talk about this so [TS]

  so there are rumors based on a interesting translation from some [TS]

  japanese Finance Commission notes that the source of this is pretty unreliable [TS]

  I I think based on the rumor and based on some things that you know that here [TS]

  in there and then told here and there it it sure seems like this rumor has no [TS]

  more credibility than any other random [TS]

  you find with poor sources on the internet so the rumor itself has no [TS]

  credibility really but it is I think we're talking about would Apple do this [TS]

  and and what implications [TS]

  the rumor may not like this specific to the room like we think the iPhone seven [TS]

  which will be the next major iPhone Apple makes is going to have a teacher [TS]

  now you know whatever maybe it seems like that the sourcing flat is not great [TS]

  but we do know for a fact that you can plug compatible headphones into the [TS]

  lighting for under existing iPhones and they will work as headphones like that [TS]

  Apple has already added had phone support to the lighting port for iPhones [TS]

  and then you can buy you know by these things but you can put a link in the [TS]

  chain of headphones right now today that have at the end of them instead of the [TS]

  3.5 millimeter headphone jack have a lightning port and plug them into your [TS]

  existing iPhone it'll work fine and you have to think why would Apple do that if [TS]

  it's some point it was at least considering we're going to keep their [TS]

  headphones jack maybe we can have it all the time you know things again dinner [TS]

  maybe we should start thinking about where we're going to do it doesn't mean [TS]

  they're gonna make a phone without one ever even but they did do something that [TS]

  opens the door for this that's why people take these rumors vaguely [TS]

  seriously think before i'd like the last time for the iPhone 6 same rumors are [TS]

  out there because people were hearing about headphones support for the [TS]

  lightning port and lo and behold that actually exist as a thing and there [TS]

  right now so that's why I think this is worth entertaining because Apple would [TS]

  not both employment and ship something like that it hadn't considered very [TS]

  seriously the idea of teaching at some point in the future I mean so the idea [TS]

  headphone port first of all the rumors that they would get home port in order [TS]

  to make the iPhone a millimeter thinner and and this was this was covered pretty [TS]

  well this week's episode of the talk-show John Gruber in jon boats so I [TS]

  don't I don't want to go too far as they literally gave an hour to it is pretty [TS]

  good so but the short version is that you don't need to ditch the headphone [TS]

  jack to get that extra millimeter today because the current generation of iPod [TS]

  Touches still has the headphone jack and is at least that much thinner so it you [TS]

  don't need to do that now and you could and you could make other gains [TS]

  we're getting the point now where making the phone noticeably thinner will [TS]

  require dropping things that people tend to like in their phones like the [TS]

  headphone port and like good cameras so let's see what they do in that area [TS]

  maybe they can make different events will see but right now than this alone [TS]

  is probably not a good enough reason to yet I don't listen to that episode but [TS]

  they talk about the slim down 3.5 jack they didn't I wasn't DiNapoli change the [TS]

  way it was built and make a special one of the Apple patent which again [TS]

  amplicons everything at once I don't think it's basically like a regular [TS]

  headphone jack but with the one side filed down to be flat I just put the [TS]

  link in the shona and and there is by the way there is also so the the the [TS]

  headphone jack the most people think of as a 3.5 millimeter jack there's also a [TS]

  2.59 later version that has existed forever also just like all the other [TS]

  ones so there is a smaller version of the standard headphone jack that is [TS]

  occasionally used on things about a lot of headphones at the headphones they [TS]

  using the detail has a detachable cable there's a pretty decent chance at the [TS]

  end of the cable plugs into the ear cup might have that size plug on it a lot of [TS]

  them do so those plugs exist they could switch that Indianapolis two millimeter [TS]

  which is a pretty big deal at this scale than now [TS]

  grad again they don't need to be it although for the for the 2.51 I think [TS]

  one of the reasons that they would stay away from that is I know from having [TS]

  kids that it's possible to been 3.5 millimeter one doesn't kid around 2.5 on [TS]

  YouTube and even easier maybe maybe don't under this but it's getting kinda [TS]

  getting to the point where you don't want that one to be on the babies I [TS]

  think I think the 21 five-millimeter is easier to bend the light me and I don't [TS]

  know if any maybe this is just me but anyone who has kids who use their iOS [TS]

  devices like that they get to use all the time that are there is go to all of [TS]

  them and take the kids headphones plug them into the jack and then rotate them [TS]

  to see if they actually are still straight on access it seems like [TS]

  everyone in my kids touch not massively bent bent enough that you can see that [TS]

  seriously yeah just wait so anyway [TS]

  assume Apple does this what is that so assume they get rid of the headphone [TS]

  jack and the only way you can plug headphones [TS]

  you can use headphones with an iPhone is either over Bluetooth or through [TS]

  lightning so what does that mean in practice and I've heard I mean I don't [TS]

  have real job but I've heard a lot of people who have real jobs listen to [TS]

  music on their phones for a big chunk of the work day through headphones at work [TS]

  for whatever reason they either can't or don't want to use music services on the [TS]

  work computer itself to the plug into the phone and use like a streaming [TS]

  service or the music library on their phone to listen to music at work most of [TS]

  the time I would expect the phone to be plugged in [TS]

  during this process if you do this if you have it so that that jack has gone [TS]

  away chances are Apple would probably ship a little dongle for between twenty [TS]

  and forty dollars that would basically be a you a lightning to 3.5 millimeter [TS]

  headphone adapter and we see how they do these things [TS]

  chances are it would not have a let me pass through to also charge the phone [TS]

  chances of Serbia one plug thing one player on each end and that would be it [TS]

  similarly lightning headphones have the same problem relating headphones don't [TS]

  have a lightning fast report to also simultaneously charge the phone while [TS]

  you're listening to the headphones so chances are if they did this you could [TS]

  no longer listen to the phone while is being charged unless you have any wires [TS]

  completely and go to Bluetooth well I mean a million third party apps for it [TS]

  and by the way I see people listening to their phones that work and none of them [TS]

  have it plugged in so they just like it because it but the screen is often as [TS]

  playing audio even if maybe it's like Spotify and screaming stop its not that [TS]

  bad or maybe people just don't care if Apple didn't build it somebody would [TS]

  because it would be eminently buildup also I don't I don't think that would be [TS]

  a significant deterrent to doing this and I don't think it would preclude [TS]

  people from charging the phone while I was just making sure that they're also [TS]

  consider that the official Apple I always get the name of this wrong but [TS]

  the Lightning AV connector whatever it is that we talked about last episode of [TS]

  your favorite thing in the world [TS]

  yeah like my favorite thing the world this thing does have [TS]

  have a lightning pass through I actually think you're right Marco that it's [TS]

  unlikely that that's the approach Apple would take for this because I think it's [TS]

  far more likely that they would just they would assume that listening would [TS]

  not be all day long and that you wouldn't need to charges he listened but [TS]

  there is a precedent for them doing something with a lightning passed [TS]

  through the whole reason there's lightning passed through on this cable [TS]

  is so that you can charge your phone while you're displaying whatever your [TS]

  whatever you have on the phone on a TV or whatever so that is one thing that [TS]

  would be inconvenient or problematic for people if they did this all the main [TS]

  thing of course is that you can use your headphones even if they ship in adapter [TS]

  even if you don't need to charge to having to have an adapter is annoying [TS]

  that is the main inconveniences but what about all my headphones and I don't want [TS]

  to use an adapter and it's just not a nice or whatever and so that was the [TS]

  last time we have discussions with them in the rumors of lightning port [TS]

  headphone support for out there saying things like well I don't wanna not have [TS]

  all my headphones and you know that that's what everybody says anytime [TS]

  report it you know I don't want to lose all my charging cables I don't want to [TS]

  not be able to use all my talks on a change from thirty headphone port as [TS]

  many people went down on Twitter and elsewhere is way older than 30 pin [TS]

  connector and is not a terrible connector like it's fairly solid part [TS]

  you can't put it in the wrong way [TS]

  pretty sturdy it's been around by some estimates of being like ninety eighty [TS]

  ninety years depending on how you measure may be over a hundred forget it [TS]

  has minor problem of sorting itself out when you plug it in but you know other [TS]

  than that it's ok yeah I thought the best in the world but like with with all [TS]

  these things like the thing that came to mind to me is VGA ports VGA ports [TS]

  branded arm around since 1910 fine but there around for a long time and they [TS]

  had limitations there were obvious especially as we went from analog to [TS]

  digital video with DVI connections and HDMI and DisplayPort and stuff like that [TS]

  but we do I was like this video is a standard you want to come from Jake and [TS]

  actors and what eventually did VGA connectors in was not all the things I [TS]

  just listed which should have been obvious like are you can keep their [TS]

  video you gonna constantly convert analog this terrible and the resolution [TS]

  limit [TS]

  like we have a digital standards by which those what did we GNE did [TS]

  eventually everybody's laptops are too damn small to finish on the side that's [TS]

  what did this is just a mean you know you can still find a new delhi know they [TS]

  like they are like exactly the thickness of the VGA port I think even so with the [TS]

  tops and bottoms of the VGA port where basically there was no plastic above and [TS]

  below them they were just you know what I mean like it was there was no like [TS]

  thing to shove the VGA port into it was just like they were not cut out the VGA [TS]

  port was there so when you plugged in something the plug thing anyway that's [TS]

  what eventually did in VGA port certainly on the Mac and a lot of other [TS]

  slim laptops that are out there cuz if you want to release on that top the [TS]

  video big so that future is lurking out there probably in you know and possibly [TS]

  distant future but who knows [TS]

  for smartphones because eventually will be able to get smart phones than enough [TS]

  that the port will be thicker than the thing now we were there with with [TS]

  high-quality cameras as market lineup before that the phone is already thicker [TS]

  than the camera and we just make the camera broke out so who's to say you [TS]

  couldn't have a credit card in iPhone fifteen years from now and hanging off [TS]

  the edge of it the 3.5 inch thing you know I mean like it would be this big [TS]

  lump this big silly lump thing but it detract too much from the thinnest of [TS]

  the phone would still be in a situation where then if you drop your phone but [TS]

  flutter harmlessly to the ground then you would pick up the fact that it has a [TS]

  headphone port poking out of it wouldn't bother anybody I'm not sure the [TS]

  headphone port is raised the level where we're willing to say you know what [TS]

  even when our phone is the thickness of a credit card I'll be perfectly fine [TS]

  with there being a 3.5 inch headphone jack on there of course at that point [TS]

  lightning will also be too thick and thinking about this I think we can all [TS]

  agree I don't want to make this timescale argument that this man who you [TS]

  know you guys keep using the phrase business maybe an actual application of [TS]

  it because it's like look at part is going to go away eventually just is [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah the question is is this the year that it goes away in terms of timing say [TS]

  you were like the Grand Poobah like when ports go across the industry which Apple [TS]

  kind of it is because once they [TS]

  move everyone yells at them and says it's too big for doing it then does the [TS]

  same thing five years later or two years later a one year later he also floppy [TS]

  drives and getting rid of legacy portfolio pieces have been much slower [TS]

  about that is there to do it would you do it this year with 17 I mean when you [TS]

  decide that this is the year to do it or would you wait until you have to do it [TS]

  for some reason cuz I agree with Marco that you didn't have to do it for that [TS]

  reason but would you do it anyway to sort of say we want to get the paint [TS]

  over with now or would you wait until everything is USB see if I give up of [TS]

  lightning in six years I don't know you can look at this and you like to me [TS]

  there's so many downsides to do in this first of all I I think this would this [TS]

  would cause a substantial loss of goodwill that this would be a big deal [TS]

  you know look at how many people complain for so long and get so mad [TS]

  about the switch to lightning at all to have them all so basically make [TS]

  everyone's headphones obsolete or make them worse perhaps requiring some dongle [TS]

  to be plugged in this would be a really really big problem for their goodwill [TS]

  and customer satisfaction and for the presses impression the phone and what [TS]

  what everyday people while people end up thinking about is thinking about them [TS]

  how many iPhone buyers you think use headphones are the ones that come with [TS]

  the iPhone I mean you can look at beats as a pretty big example of that it's a [TS]

  pretty big number I mean I think that the market for aftermarket headphones is [TS]

  pretty healthy right now I very rarely see people using using the earbuds [TS]

  anymore I'm trying to think of what I see people using NI mostly see people [TS]

  using here but you're right that the big headphones the next the next thing I [TS]

  would say is if they're not you but what are they using I would say they're using [TS]

  something like beets were there will be there be to rip off so just large big [TS]

  big headphones like that but I don't know there are upsides to this for [TS]

  people who sell bonds obviously right because even the people who sell year [TS]

  but suddenly get to increase their margins because previously they were [TS]

  selling now hey you broke or lost your the things that they came with their [TS]

  Apple earbuds you you like your budget like this small you don't want big beat [TS]

  size things but you lost it broke them and you want to replace me [TS]

  on a paper apples by hours which are $3 cheaper than at both but our margins are [TS]

  used for good because these earbuds are pieces of crap and they have a lightning [TS]

  part on them so these are made for iPhone iPhone compatible earpods or [TS]

  whatever so right that this is a way for Apple to not only sell a very large [TS]

  number of high-volume dongles and accessories to add apple headphones but [TS]

  it's also a way now for Apple to through the MFI program to take a royalty on [TS]

  every headphones sold like that of course let me look you can look at this [TS]

  as you know the the various benefits of this might bring you can look at it as [TS]

  the various down for the my brain all-ages Bluetooth separately as a whole [TS]

  different story but you know if you're still staying wired I hate to be cynical [TS]

  about this but I think a realistic way to think about this is would today's [TS]

  Apple really today's Apple not what not the Apple that we want to exist but the [TS]

  actual Apple the does exist today would today's Apple make an already very thin [TS]

  device even thinner at the expense of usefulness in the real world and in a [TS]

  way that would increase the average selling price of their best selling [TS]

  product by designing it to basically require higher margin accessories at the [TS]

  expense of customer satisfaction and goodwill yes of course they would they [TS]

  do this all the time now but it depends on how much customers satisfaction and [TS]

  good well that's why when I if I keep thinking about this if I was in a [TS]

  meeting on this at Apple the first thing I would say is you for even discuss had [TS]

  fun things we have to decide if we're ever gonna go USBC [TS]

  stick with lining of a regulation has lightning on a ten year plan or is it [TS]

  not like or are we ever got because lightning and USBC are really similar to [TS]

  the to the point where like lighting was important for Apple to have because they [TS]

  had it for years before USBC came out right but the USBC is here now so how [TS]

  many more years do we give lightning are we committed to lightning is really on a [TS]

  ten year plan and we're not being considered alternative until ten years [TS]

  but you have to have that discussion first because it's not just the [TS]

  remainder of the head boat party it's Gary the head apart and the place where [TS]

  you plug it in is this like me and you really don't want to do a thing where we [TS]

  had lighting for a while [TS]

  then we get rid of the headphone port and all the headphones had been [TS]

  lightning and then a couple years after that we got rid of lightning I wanted to [TS]

  be USBC or some crap like that that is really bad and the long time line for [TS]

  customer satisfaction and you can only absorb certain number of these were [TS]

  getting rid of the floppy drive type of revolutions you can't you can't stop [TS]

  them that close together so I think you really have to plan something out and I [TS]

  think you should plan it because like I said it's going to go away eventually [TS]

  eventually get so then you can have a great choice is about bulges and crap [TS]

  like that and if anyone's going to get rid of it on their phones is probably [TS]

  gonna be out because that's their thing there was like you know they're they're [TS]

  more willing to get rid of it even even today's Apple that sells millions and [TS]

  millions of these iPhones they are the ones who are going to be more willing to [TS]

  get rid of this you just have to put it on the plan and i right now if if the [TS]

  plan is not to keep liking for a long long time now is not the time to get rid [TS]

  of 3.5 in sport if they do get rid of the Nigerian make an announcement so [TS]

  yeah we're getting her headphones and by the way our current plan to keep lying [TS]

  around for at least five or six more years so don't even think about USBC [TS]

  it's not gonna happen your investment in lighting headphones will last you [TS]

  several years many years don't feel too bad about it but they're not going to [TS]

  say that so it'll be sort of an unknown 52 money on right now I would say I [TS]

  would bet against not strongly against you know 51 49 percent advised but I [TS]

  would bet against the iPhone seven dropping that one part because I don't [TS]

  see a reason for it and I don't feel like now is the time exactly I really [TS]

  think they will reconsider letting sooner rather than later so I think they [TS]

  can hold out until they reconsider lightning in a couple of years and then [TS]

  they can get rid of the port is then they actually will probably needed [TS]

  thickness was but I do think they should do it before they definitely before they [TS]

  really need to the first time they do it on lobby because they just couldn't do [TS]

  it any other way you know because they were just whatever they want to set [TS]

  things up they want to take the hit when they were going to take a bit set things [TS]

  up and then and then by the time they really really need it it's already kinda [TS]

  like lightning like they have to go to lighting for the first phone that had [TS]

  their wages 30 pin on it it would technically it would have been may be [TS]

  awkward or whatever but it could have it but he didn't wait until the absolutely [TS]

  desperate [TS]

  they did lightning when it looks very small in the end of the phone and [TS]

  telephones it slowly shrinking down around it and I think that's what [TS]

  they'll do with the headphones replacement yeah I think you're right [TS]

  and i also I i think you know this is absolutely the kind of thing Apple would [TS]

  do all the downsides be damned they would definitely do it because it makes [TS]

  things dinner even though we don't need them to be but it makes things dinner [TS]

  and it makes them more money so they would absolutely do it but I don't think [TS]

  they're going to do this year I don't think they need to yet and I don't think [TS]

  it makes sense yeah I don't think it's gonna happen either but personally I [TS]

  wouldn't be that bothered by it I almost never use bluetooth headphones with my [TS]

  phone but I might be the only person on the planet that isn't particularly [TS]

  bothered by bluetooth headphones I use bluetooth headphones at work all day [TS]

  every day and they're connected to my Mac iPhone they are very cheap [TS]

  headphones I think they were $25 in the air when I bought them literally four [TS]

  years ago from the battery lasts at least today if not a couple of days the [TS]

  latency yeah if I hit pause it doesn't pause instantly but there's no latency [TS]

  when I watch videos there's none of the quarter I don't feel any of the crimes [TS]

  that so many people seem to feel they usually to that forms so if that means [TS]

  if if bluetooth is our future Bluetooth only as our future some silly dongle I [TS]

  don't think that such a terrible future I think the that Apple will get in this [TS]

  generated in their customers that but I don't think it's a terrible future we've [TS]

  been as Mac users which is different but as Mac users laptop users we've had [TS]

  stupid display dongles forever very overdone overjoyed that this new MacBook [TS]

  Pro that I have an HDMI port but generally speaking [TS]

  yeah we've had to use silly dongles all the time if yer one who uses most iPhone [TS]

  battery packs most of the ones I've ever seen [TS]

  there's something in the way the headphone port so if your headphone jack [TS]

  is any bigger than the headphone port like those the ones that I've bought [TS]

  always include a one or two inch little extension so you can clear the battery [TS]

  case and then plug in your headphones a little extension like none of these [TS]

  things are that terribly new [TS]

  again I just if bluetooth is our future I don't forget such a bad thing sorry [TS]

  mark oh well it's not it's kinda like the movies to watch it's like here is [TS]

  something else that is more expensive than what it might have replaced based [TS]

  on a lot of software and flaky standards so it's a little bit unreliable there's [TS]

  some lag involved in common actions and it's one more thing that needs to be [TS]

  charged and put on trade cycle and I i think we are you know we have so many of [TS]

  these things in the world and I i say this as a user of the phone and the [TS]

  watch and Bluetooth headphones most of the time when I'm using my phone for [TS]

  audio playback most of the time using bluetooth headphones to listen to [TS]

  podcast [TS]

  APX 210 bTW which are amazing headphones made anymore but the m400 axes baseless [TS]

  and think I love this adventure podcast but they're flaky they need to be [TS]

  charged it is kind of annoying so in many ways a step forward but like forced [TS]

  touch it's it's a step forward but also kind of a step sideways in this kind of [TS]

  worse in some ways more complicated you know if Apple released us a blue tooth [TS]

  head set of headphones that charges via lightning similar to the Apple pencil [TS]

  and charges really really fast [TS]

  the Lightning would that make it easier on all of us was gonna say regular [TS]

  people but it would make it easier on me to you know what that make it easier on [TS]

  all of us if you could get a couple hours worth of listening off of a five [TS]

  minute charge I mean it [TS]

  the charging is is one downside of many you know it's the unreliability the the [TS]

  extra battery powered the phone needs to send the signal [TS]

  makes the phone battery life whereas I mean there's there's a lot of little [TS]

  downside to the end and the reason I use it it because it is really convenient [TS]

  and these headphones sound like complete garbage and most Bluetooth headphones I [TS]

  have heard sound either mediocre to bad and I don't think a lot of people say oh [TS]

  a bluetooth is a bad sending protocol it is but most of these sound problems [TS]

  people have a bluetooth headphones or because the heavens themselves are [TS]

  mediocre like the drivers for the Dell design headphones mediocre they just [TS]

  sound bad because usually you can plug a man with a cable and you can hear the [TS]

  sound just as bad over cable but you know it's not all bad and I think [TS]

  ultimately enough people are going to be using bluetooth headphones often enough [TS]

  over time that when they do finally killed 3.5 inch jack which which I don't [TS]

  think it's anything but when they finally do it [TS]

  a big portion of people won't be affected at all because they were [TS]

  already moving the Bluetooth but we're not there yet and it isn't all good [TS]

  teams involving two of the different versions of the standards are you think [TS]

  eventually but I'm you know it in many more years it will still be Bluetooth [TS]

  but partly due to the name only and will maybe use different signaling and you [TS]

  know different frequencies and different you know [TS]

  compression strategies or whatever like that it will and hopefully this tax that [TS]

  they will be more reliable that will will have evolved to the point where [TS]

  threshold of flaking you know I think but it has been getting better so in [TS]

  terms of power consumption Bluetooth I'm getting better so doesn't drain your [TS]

  battery is much we got the Bluetooth 4.0 whatever things this all these ones that [TS]

  take less major and you from your phone and I soon take a little bit less energy [TS]

  for ear headphones or maybe they just passive receivers but anyway what I [TS]

  always think about is due to their butts because I hate having court date quartz [TS]

  getting tangled up and stuff you know it would just be much more convenient if I [TS]

  guess that my phone in my pocket and what I want is your butts because I [TS]

  don't think the podcast I don't care about your bugs in my years and then I [TS]

  would probably lose them so that they can maybe they could be a magnetic and [TS]

  stick to the bank on inductive charger not using them like that is the the [TS]

  wireless future but I think Apple ditch the headphone port before wireless [TS]

  standards [TS]

  are as good as we would all like them to be like I guess what is that threshold [TS]

  is it like wifi wifi wifi above the threshold of flakiness wifi is way more [TS]

  reliable and Bluetooth it still conflicted with some people that are [TS]

  maybe just you know I don't know what the obviously this signal strength where [TS]

  you're in so we require your house and you have played in your walls and you [TS]

  know tough luck but for places where you get good signal but you are losing life [TS]

  by that I'm here many stories about certainly doesn't happen on Mac so when [TS]

  it does like the two big deal now become the new version of OS 10 screws up wifi [TS]

  like we demanded to be reliable like if I can get a signal and I have enough [TS]

  bars I'm a little display I want that connection to stay up and if it doesn't [TS]

  something is terribly wrong out of class action lawsuit against it [TS]

  a Bluetooth you wouldn't even notice right through to the end and I said in [TS]

  my in my crappy car when I get in I just have to wait to see first off I don't [TS]

  have the source said to Bluetooth like the sources said something else [TS]

  Bluetooth doesn't even appear in the list of sources for a while so I have to [TS]

  listen to AM or FM or iPod or something else while I wait I can't turn the [TS]

  system off because that will not you know initiate the process of getting [TS]

  Bluetooth setup so I have to wait until Bluetooth appears the source and then [TS]

  selected because that's that's just your car and a Bluetooth this already [TS]

  selected table it is I haven't changed a selection I get in the car start the [TS]

  engine it's a long time before I hear anything coming out of their way anyway [TS]

  I don't know what he's doing is it booting up is it trying to find my phone [TS]

  usually it finds it may be 99% of the time it finds it after five or six [TS]

  seconds sometimes it doesn't find it and I have to go to like you know to all [TS]

  your devices and it's already chosen already being connected but going [TS]

  through that thing on the menu makes it can anyway like I said yeah bluetooth [TS]

  with his way to flaking now and it was messed up in some way I would never [TS]

  notice you say that but what do you use to ask you this most people however [TS]

  probably use a Bluetooth keyboard and/or Bluetooth pointing device for any sort [TS]

  of Mac that lives on a desk for any amount of time yes I know there's a crud [TS]

  load of Mac laptop [TS]

  I know that most people probably use the on-board pointing devices and keyboard [TS]

  but for those that have you know an iMac those are almost certainly going to be [TS]

  Bluetooth so they really hosed up a Bluetooth stack on the west and I think [TS]

  we'd know and I think we know it pretty quick but I've had this been the most [TS]

  reliable wireless accessories in our house that I found to be more reliable [TS]

  than the stuff like say the magic trackpad which I have now and mine on [TS]

  Magic Trackpad but also had and I all due to habitat with my iPad which does [TS]

  not in any way is the Logitech thing with the crazy little USB plug in ORF [TS]

  dongle thing not blew through the Twitter lot of texts proprietary thing [TS]

  is that silly proprietary thing the batteries last for ever and it always [TS]

  works and there are no drivers to install and so I always think Bluetooth [TS]

  why can't you be able to stabilize attack dongle but what is that they're [TS]

  doing is it shorter range that just because it's not that whenever the hell [TS]

  there's doing you do that because it always works it never doesn't work it is [TS]

  very frustrating I understand this probably take relation to get a protocol [TS]

  that can do stuff like audio and it's not just you know something about his [TS]

  actions but lie detector that when they were doing the product on psycho [TS]

  bluetooth is the next big thing you should really get on Bluetooth and I'm [TS]

  sure a lot of it does make Bluetooth mice but whoever said you know what no [TS]

  realistic with this stupid animals they were kind of right because those things [TS]

  always work I hate the stupid might be here again I don't mind Bluetooth if [TS]

  Apple does kill the headphone jack and the next iPhone or in a iPhone do they [TS]

  include some sort of dongle adapter II thing in the box or do they include some [TS]

  sort of like Bluetooth earbuds sort of thing I think they would include some [TS]

  sort of Bluetooth earbuds sort of thing but what do you think Marco I would say [TS]

  neither do you really think so he's the pessimist [TS]

  look this is today's Apple let's be realistic here this is this is away from [TS]

  them then from there making the 40 bucks on every sale there is no way that gets [TS]

  included in the box no way I say they would there's no way they include [TS]

  Bluetooth headphones his that is an upsell that is an optional accessories [TS]

  are you not getting bluetooth headphones eventually will become so pervasive that [TS]

  known as the concept of plugging in a mouse or keyboard or something [TS]

  eventually then maybe you put it in the first version no but I think they would [TS]

  include the adapter for the same reason that they felt bad included the MagSafe [TS]

  12 to adapt their in boxes for your products for a long time I think they [TS]

  would include the different five injured after because what the person that was a [TS]

  long time ago I know but for the first one I feel like they're gonna wanna do [TS]

  something to stem the tide of angry people who use headphones don't work [TS]

  anymore so I think and and because that adapter would probably be super cheap [TS]

  and passive they're put it in the box by now will probably go live long enough to [TS]

  find out this this one is not infinite time scale I would not bet heavily on my [TS]

  thing that they're going through the day after his right now that would totally [TS]

  be an apple thing to do but it's just such an easy thing to do to really help [TS]

  with the initial impact of the initial anger over breaking peoples headphones [TS]

  that it's so small and so cheap like the little MagSafe 122 it's the same [TS]

  situation like we're breaking peoples things in fact that but the MagSafe want [TS]

  to do that there was more expensive to manufacture than the Lightning to 3.5 [TS]

  would be so the more I think so [TS]

  so part of part of the rumor on this site was that it would the translation [TS]

  was kind of weird saying like it would be a special new lightning port that [TS]

  would allow passed through audio cassette thing is you can't just take [TS]

  the digital lightning signal and have a passive attached images move spins [TS]

  around and wires that and suddenly becomes an amplified analog signal that [TS]

  they first had one so the reports seem to suggest that what it would do and be [TS]

  that if you plug in these things we special new things in the special new [TS]

  portable devices that it would still be using the deck and amp in the phone but [TS]

  that it would it would be able to route those over the lightning port only in [TS]

  this new phone that would then allow a relatively passive device on to be the [TS]

  headphones out about you can't have you can't have an adapter if you don't do [TS]

  that well you could unless you have a chip in the adapter like this debate [TS]

  h264 [TS]

  thing with that with the processor in it [TS]

  yet no I think that's a that's alternative his alternative would be [TS]

  that the adapter and actually have a little USB DAC anything right in there [TS]

  which would which is totally possible but they would not do that because I [TS]

  mean just just think of the Lightning connector the chip in the things like [TS]

  this only so small you can make anything that involves the chips and then you got [TS]

  this big stiff than poking out of the bottom of your phone is not good like [TS]

  that is it does not gonna happen I don't think they will ever ship a product [TS]

  that's like right so it is also the in the third option here which is way more [TS]

  sensible and likely than then shipping adapters in the box [TS]

  the way more likely explanation here is that they would just they would wire [TS]

  that the port in that way so that lighting devices made in this lightning [TS]

  audio headphones made in this way would work only on the port on the new devices [TS]

  made for this they wouldn't care and they would just give a version of the [TS]

  earpods the ship now I just has a lightning flooding and include that in [TS]

  the box but of course that's a that's what they should the phone with the [TS]

  course but I think it would also come with the adapter for your old do you [TS]

  have a pair of Beats thats 3.5 you're going to get the thing that's going to [TS]

  come with plain old passive earpods with lightning connector and yes of course [TS]

  they're not gonna be Bluetooth and it'll also come I think with a little time [TS]

  passive adapter and that's the part I don't think they would do that these [TS]

  days [TS]

  know that they would charge at least 20 bucks marriage on about the USB 3 speeds [TS]

  on the iPad pro remember that yeah and they were one of the things that was [TS]

  like showing the internals of the port looks like and I think that tear down or [TS]

  something like two extra contacts for the lightning port and it was a sexual [TS]

  context to get the USB 3 speeds because USB 3 connector has more contacts then [TS]

  the lighting port has contacts that's why I talked about that the blog you [TS]

  don't need even though the usb3 thing has all the parts you need them lining [TS]

  because usb3 has dedicated port three centuries even USB two speeds and [TS]

  lightning wouldn't need that because it can repurpose the pins because like a [TS]

  dad part of whatever context for may be there for passive audio stuff or [TS]

  something like that like the idea that you can get [TS]

  that you can find a way to leave without changing the physical sort of shape and [TS]

  size of the lightning port find a way to make that passive adapter that you can [TS]

  just plug in 3.5 millimeter headphone jack into without a chip or any sort of [TS]

  Dec and there it's still just a fully analog coming out that something that [TS]

  could be done but it but again I don't know even that everything like really do [TS]

  want to this now or do you want to I don't know what the solution is that the [TS]

  long-term to make it then everything about USBC species not gonna head pain [TS]

  throughout body only time so maybe that's like the advantage of lightning [TS]

  real lightning will stick around for a long time because applicant do stuff [TS]

  like this without consulting anybody else and without worrying about why I [TS]

  wouldn't I wouldn't assume that lightning is going away in favor of you [TS]

  it's BC on on the devices have lining anytime soon in fact as we see Apple has [TS]

  used a 10-2 more devices you know the Apple could have made things like the [TS]

  smart trackpad and keyboard and everything they could have made those [TS]

  charge over USB see and they didn't they made in Treasury lightning [TS]

  those all those all the peripheral the in the the new input devices my new iMac [TS]

  the PC part of the Dragon if we allow but I'm USBC but yeah well they could [TS]

  have new cable but I I think the reason here is your Apple AAPL is very is [TS]

  perfectly fine support USBC [TS]

  to interface with peripherals from the rest of the world but they when it comes [TS]

  to their own devices and their own devices like the end of the pledge their [TS]

  support they're very happy to support learning because it is theirs and so [TS]

  that not only does it have more abilities and USB see that might be [TS]

  useful to Apple but again they're making less than one in each one of those [TS]

  things in their control in the the standard and everything that's [TS]

  everything Apple wants its control plus money plus smallness I mean that's the [TS]

  that's you know that is everything they want so they're not gonna be [TS]

  enlightening anytime soon I I think they would skip USBC entirely for the poor [TS]

  things like iPhones and because you know it's it's not really any smaller than [TS]

  lightning is it i mean it were not meaningfully so I'm guessing that the [TS]

  phone has lightning longer than USBC would be the thing it would move to I'm [TS]

  still I'm still hoping that my next to shape the Mac Pro will have a long [TS]

  the back of it ton of little parts look like USBC better late than about 30 I [TS]

  think I'm sad love that and I think that's most likely the case although [TS]

  unfortunately that pushes out like next June I think but I am nothing if not [TS]

  patient [TS]

  nice are such as much of this week is Warby Parker wordpress.com / ATP for [TS]

  excellent quality prescription eyeglasses at an amazing price so [TS]

  believes the prescription eyeglasses should not cost $300 or more they bypass [TS]

  the traditional channels and saw higher quality better-looking eyeglasses online [TS]

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  a very nice hard case and cleaning cloth you don't need to buy an overpriced [TS]

  accessories now buying glasses online something it would be risky how do you [TS]

  know whether that you had with the look good on you they have you covered there [TS]

  for this home training program now here's here's the site your browser and [TS]

  you pick five pairs of glasses risk-free Apple shipped to you for free you try [TS]

  them on in the comfort of your own home for five days then when you're done you [TS]

  could send him back with a prepaid return label there is no obligation to [TS]

  buy all that is free so go pick up 5% less if you picked just two or three [TS]

  a box of 25 for you and they're actually their their picture pretty good so you [TS]

  just you should just let them do that if you only see like two or three like let [TS]

  them pick it up to you'll see it worked out pretty well he tried to show you [TS]

  another if you live if you if you love somebody you look in the mirror you see [TS]

  how it looks on you right in your home [TS]

  five days and then you can send it back no obligation to buy all that is [TS]

  completely free and they also offer sunglasses I love sunglasses especially [TS]

  now in the winter when the angle of the Sun gets so low I have to be driving [TS]

  with sunglasses every single time and I love polarized sunglasses they offer [TS]

  these they're fantastic and I also believe in giving back to the world for [TS]

  every pair of glasses they selling in the pair of somebody in need through [TS]

  various vision charities around the world market icon / ATP and check out [TS]

  their great selection of premium quality affordable I we're gettin home track it [TS]

  today [TS]

  risk-free thank you very much to worry Parker for sponsoring our show so big [TS]

  actual confirmed legitimate news happened we were told the WDC that Swift [TS]

  would be open source by the end of the year and with not too much time to spare [TS]

  Swift has been open source I am genuinely impressed in the thing that [TS]

  impressed me most which I didn't realize at first was that the entire commit [TS]

  history as far as we can tell [TS]

  was was pushed to get hope it wasn't just the initial commit dance which is [TS]

  what most people do respond but I would've done if I was Apple but you can [TS]

  actually see the evolution of Swift overtime which is crazy to me I don't [TS]

  even know where to go from here but I feel like John after your copeland 2010 [TS]

  bit it let's start with you [TS]

  well the first thing i think is worth explaining what the hell does that mean [TS]

  open source with how do you open source of programming I was in a programming [TS]

  language just like you read a book and it tells you how language works like [TS]

  what are they open sourcing of course they're not you know it doesn't make [TS]

  precise language but they're open sourcing is a bunch of the things they [TS]

  used to implement the language so I'll p.m. and clang and those composer [TS]

  already open source but this quest compiler and the Swiss standard library [TS]

  and associated things written so that's what's being open source so there's a [TS]

  websites with dot org you can go to sort of the gateway for all the stuff today I [TS]

  was kind of sad to see that their flight was how is this what that are really [TS]

  really slow down you didn't get errors but just try to load anything else with [TS]

  that are gonna take forever to get back to you so that's kind of embarrassing [TS]

  and snarky comment I made was like maybe at this website open source project get [TS]

  some kind of wealthy corporate backer they can't afford better hosting this is [TS]

  like the British technology company in the world and that are slow today makes [TS]

  me sad anyway I will you know more about their network stuff in the future I'm [TS]

  sure really pushing it down the notes on the news but it is there [TS]

  and it's getting worse and it's simmering so I will complain about it at [TS]

  some point but stressed out or get you go look at the source code believes to [TS]

  get up which is the first exciting thing that you would say about this like get [TS]

  home premium Apple's not hosting on there you know open source that [TS]

  apple.com website where that was the darling source and that's exactly what [TS]

  he was talking about in the old days [TS]

  Apple has open source components and kept it going back for other Darwin the [TS]

  core OS that underneath us 10 and iOS has been open source from the beginning [TS]

  and what usually happens is able to come to some you know conference watc year in [TS]

  the old days macworld and announced a new version of the OS and then [TS]

  developers would develop for it and then they would ship that version of the OS [TS]

  two customers and then you would wait days weeks or months and then the open [TS]

  source version of the underlying projects like all here's the Darwin [TS]

  released for Mac OS 10 10.4 that would only be released as one big blob well [TS]

  after the OS was already out sometimes it would be the gap would be that small [TS]

  but the bottom line is you get OKC was a big dump like ok [TS]

  open source ID and see the source code and it just sits there until the next [TS]

  time out becomes along those floppy ears 10.4 plop here's 10.5 and they were to [TS]

  the point releases too but it's not like they're showing you here is the entire [TS]

  committee history of all the components of Darwin over their entire development [TS]

  you just get these these dumps and it wasn't as assayed developed in the open [TS]

  right so certainly as they're working you know 10.5 is plop down the site [TS]

  someone somewhere in Apple's working at 10.6 you don't get to see that work to [TS]

  the open source components you're not going to see any part of 10.6 until 10.6 [TS]

  out and then the show here by the way here's the open source parts of 10.6 [TS]

  plop WebKit was a little bit different in that you could see what was going on [TS]

  you know wasn't strictly an Apple product was developed kind of out in the [TS]

  open but they would do the same thing with it would be like internally Apple [TS]

  is working on it [TS]

  its next version of Safari with a new version of WebKit but they're not doing [TS]

  that work out in the open at some point they're gonna plop down to a big commit [TS]

  to the latest version of WebKit and that's been getting better with WebKit [TS]

  but Swift is even more towards the actual model the people do with open [TS]

  source projects in terms of here the whole history of the entire project from [TS]

  the beginning all the committees have accounts and get hopes you can see all [TS]

  the you know their names attached to them and literally 2010 is it the first [TS]

  commit and just go through the history of the entire set programming language [TS]

  and see who did what and look at the commit history and who did it would [TS]

  contribute the most code when the fun things you can go to a chart in and get [TS]

  up and say like the graphs and stuff where you basically see it either the [TS]

  hire date or the disclosure date of ever working on so effed beginning it's just [TS]

  you know latter is doing everything is the only one who knows anything about it [TS]

  right and that is certain point second person and a third person than a fourth [TS]

  person and if it's not there hire date you know the time before is probably [TS]

  when they didn't know the project existed never disclosed on its like out [TS]

  now see you know so it's like revealing the history of the thing and they're [TS]

  continuing to work on it in the open so much so that there's a road map on the [TS]

  site to say hey we're going to do with 2.2 and we're going to a 3.90 and here's [TS]

  what's planned for in here the proposals and hear the tech industry leading up to [TS]

  it so this is totally normal from the perspective of any regular open source [TS]

  project like Apache or Python or whatever but it is extremely novel in [TS]

  terms of core technologies in Apple to be actually realized developed with a [TS]

  public bug tracker where you're seeing future development happening in real [TS]

  time they're doing things that are not yet released any Apple product you're [TS]

  seeing them do them and you can file bugs against them and stop and you can [TS]

  see it is for long-suffering Apple technology enthusiast a breath of fresh [TS]

  air [TS]

  it's really surprising and in the last couple of weeks [TS]

  Apple as a whole has been getting a lot of flack about the Mac App Store and [TS]

  potentially their plans for iPhone hardware and have you guys heard [TS]

  anything about this headphone thing or not but but this is really this is [TS]

  really impressive in this is very on Apple like and it was funny because [TS]

  earlier today I was listening to [TS]

  material which the Pakistan relay about Google stopped and they had their you [TS]

  know Google's VP of design whose name I will try to pronounce yes they think you [TS]

  they had him on their podcast granted Schiller did go on the talk show but you [TS]

  don't typically hear these sorts of things happening with Apple in this is a [TS]

  very open way of doing open source which is just really impressive market been [TS]

  quite so far what do you think I'm really happy to see this and then you as [TS]

  as much as I do complain about things that Apple doesn't do well and does and [TS]

  does that are hostile to to either customers are developers in reality this [TS]

  is a really big move this is a good move and this is this is way more open about [TS]

  this stuff than they than I expected for sure way more open than they really [TS]

  probably needs to be and there's a number of things about this is gonna get [TS]

  to wear like when they first denounced that was due Dec when they first [TS]

  announced it will be open sourced and and I thought we talked about it you [TS]

  know back then and and I said basically that I was reserving any kind of [TS]

  enthusiasm about this because I thought was gonna be more like how drama same [TS]

  right they don't open source in the past we're just kind of these these dumps and [TS]

  that useful for the most part and I also was concerned about I would absolutely [TS]

  love to only master one new language now to be to cover both my my app [TS]

  development and my web development because I don't want no development that [TS]

  much I'm not that into it I do web development as as a just a means to an [TS]

  end to make the absurd I wanna make and I have been doing it in PHP for all [TS]

  these years and I just now saw a little bit ago but not writing all absent good [TS]

  just like making a few components go that the big PHP abuses and I like a [TS]

  decent amount but I don't think I liked it enough to build a whole new web app [TS]

  in order to port the hold up I had to I don't I don't plan to do that and swift [TS]

  is not my perfect ideal language but it's pretty good looks pretty good [TS]

  and i know im gonna have to learn it and I want to keep being an Apple platform [TS]

  developer for ten years from now I'm going to have to learn swift and I'm [TS]

  going to do it some point and so it would be nice if I could just learn [TS]

  swift and have that also work on the web for my future web needs and then I can [TS]

  finally stop using PHP and start a new Swift everywhere I really get a nice [TS]

  deep mastering of this one language and and be able to share code between them [TS]

  share my own utility libraries etcetera its share application level could be [TS]

  some of the data layer stuff I would love that that didn't like it was gonna [TS]

  happen before because I was assuming that the open sourcing of Swift would be [TS]

  you know similar to to the old way just dumping things and and they didn't say [TS]

  anything about open sourcing foundation or any of the API's and so we we all [TS]

  mess up and threw just assumed that the only part that would be open source [TS]

  should be the core of a language with the handful of built-in types it has [TS]

  their be effectively no libraries and that wouldn't be very useful [TS]

  will be able to step in to try to make their own standard libraries and try to [TS]

  get themselves established as these dinner library and we're gonna mess like [TS]

  JavaScript frameworks on this but what has actually happened there outlining a [TS]

  plan to actually convert foundation to swift and open source it included in [TS]

  this in this package so and I'm sure you know not every API is gonna be available [TS]

  in this open source way but what this does is this gives people a way to [TS]

  actually build say a web app that runs a web app back into that runs and swift on [TS]

  a Linux server and also runs on iOS where they could actually share a [TS]

  meaningful amount of underlying code and libraries and that is really cool that I [TS]

  was not expecting at all and I'm really happy to see that cuz now that makes us [TS]

  interesting that makes this beyond just like an academic curiosity of around me [TS]

  get you know Darwin running on Linux server know this is like actually [TS]

  potentially useful in the real world and no thats a Darwin you know like we knew [TS]

  they were going to Linux though [TS]

  announced that it every year you see right we knew they would do Linux but we [TS]

  didn't know that there be a library's beyond the built-in swift types right [TS]

  well so that when they said they were going to like that was the other you [TS]

  know in between the slides and they said they were gonna open source in this live [TS]

  when they put the world on the screen [TS]

  what I was thinking was a reasonable fear is like no matter what you do with [TS]

  open source and that's well and good but they're gonna open source basically [TS]

  swift so you can run it on IMAX 10 because there are always those ties [TS]

  those things like oh well if you have a Mac you can do it but it's going to be [TS]

  using the service nobody is a snack servers so it's a shame that even those [TS]

  of us will be open source it's going to be up to the community to figure out how [TS]

  the hell to get it to work on Linux and two slides later it's like a Linux [TS]

  Apple's doing that part why would Apple to that Park well Apple has service to [TS]

  write and they're probably not running at least at this point gotta help them [TS]

  they have server side stuff and why would Apple wastes time doing a Linux [TS]

  port and believe me they would not do it at the goodness of their hardness ac3 [TS]

  portable look we didn't expire right they're doing it and doing it for [TS]

  themselves and they eventually basically have the same needs Marco it is like [TS]

  it's great to meet you run swift the server but we want to share any [TS]

  significant amount of code between our client in are certainly great to at [TS]

  least a foundation like me and they would be nice I suppose they could just [TS]

  bring the Objective C runtime 22 Linux as well if it's not already there but [TS]

  with a church chose to do instead which is i think is the most exciting thing I [TS]

  knew that have something like this to be able to run a nice because why the hell [TS]

  else would I will be the Apple wants to use at the same time are going to use it [TS]

  for only on a much larger scale right but what they did was take the hard [TS]

  Rovers like we're not gonna use the Objective C runtime on Linux and let you [TS]

  use Linux with foundation on Linux you know CoreFoundation in C and foundation [TS]

  in Objective C and I could have done that and it would have worked line [TS]

  instead there they have not done this yet but they're undertaking effort to [TS]

  port foundation just left and they're doing it you know you can look at the [TS]

  source repository and see like all the MPI implementations word like not yet [TS]

  implemented but the you know the function is there this is one of the [TS]

  products they're doing and I don't know what kind of schedule it's on me maybe [TS]

  they were saying but like 3.0 they would have the whole thing ported to whatever [TS]

  so it's still going to confound asian street see underneath the covers that [TS]

  was already portable for the most part of a nationwide or whatever had been [TS]

  open source and then on top of that they're gonna go from from that point [TS]

  swift all the way up so anything that used to be in foundation was objective [TS]

  see their reinventing in swift still a little bit confused about how they're [TS]

  gonna do with string vs NSString and by the way that the exciting thing about [TS]

  this [TS]

  their founding dropping the NSP fix foundations that they're taking this [TS]

  opportunity this recommendation and swift to drop all the NSE's which for [TS]

  people who don't know how goes it was Google this earlier to see when the [TS]

  address was added because it believed was added at some point in the next but [TS]

  honest answer next step and so these new Mac developers have no idea what the [TS]

  next is programming this for months and going through tutorials I'm never going [TS]

  to make any sense I get very hot that means next step but it's only fair to be [TS]

  there and now the perfect opportunity to remove it so then how the hell do you [TS]

  distinguish between swift that string and formerly NSString which I guess we [TS]

  just become string I mean you can understand your name spacing like they [TS]

  would be distinguishable but I know they're like you know bridge to each [TS]

  other like 20 cause bridge you know rain and a serrated behind the scenes stuff [TS]

  but it's potentially confusing so I can I using pierced with with strings are [TS]

  made using swift with foundation in swift with swift used to be any strings [TS]

  that are actually strings anyway I'm sure that working out but the bottom [TS]

  line is there clearly not taking the easy road here they're leaving the [TS]

  Objective C runtime behind brazilian lines of code and that will be [TS]

  maintained that enhance for the future obviously but the foundation literally [TS]

  the foundation of their their programming language stack is going to [TS]

  be written and swept the SI core foundation and then it's gonna be swift [TS]

  foundation and then switch standard library in all this messed up on puppet [TS]

  so this is very exciting and it's exciting not only do they saying they're [TS]

  doing this is done yet this is nothing like [TS]

  the old Apple would not even announced that they're doing this until the next [TS]

  WTC they're telling you that they're doing it even though it's not done you [TS]

  can see how far they've got it and like I said they tell you what this is going [TS]

  to be quick to point to the tell you can three-point know they have a system [TS]

  whereby you can propose things to be in swift 3.1 or 4.0 and get accepted [TS]

  incorporated you can submit patches and everything its actual open source [TS]

  development yeah it's really cool and this makes me interested in learning the [TS]

  language at some point soon I'm starting to jump on it like today or next week [TS]

  don't don't don't spend too much time learning the plus + and minus minus [TS]

  operate yeah but end and one thing that I probably will wait for his is that [TS]

  they mentioned that they are not talking about like that the goals for the big [TS]

  3.0 release that will be in late 2016 which is in a year from now but they say [TS]

  they're not going to address concurrency primitives and Larry and concurrency [TS]

  built-ins and language until after three point I think I do wanna wait to really [TS]

  master the language until the concurrency stories worked out and [TS]

  that's pretty important you have an excuse to a nice thing to really master [TS]

  I didn't settle to start learning how to restore using it but I i do want to see [TS]

  how it shakes out because that's kind of important in the modern environment i [TS]

  mean that's you know that's why go is going to be better for your server-side [TS]

  things goes already like you using this features and go and they really handy [TS]

  and what they're saying is for now this is a LibraryThing usually dispatch right [TS]

  now it's not terrible you're already familiar with it from using it is [TS]

  available in its open source itself right yeah I mean there was this thing [TS]

  for now before we address in the language libraries are the answers to [TS]

  use P threads usually dispatches whatever the hell you want to use it the [TS]

  library problem not a language problem but go go decided that it's important [TS]

  not to be part of the language to make stuff easier so it's gonna be there when [TS]

  you mention like oh you know right like riding a server-side web framework [TS]

  equivalent to your PHP one or even equivalent to the simple service you [TS]

  doing and go there's a lot of library work that if Apple has done it we're not [TS]

  seeing it yet and so it's up to the community to actually do that [TS]

  yeah so an under the radar number to you and underscore talked about basically [TS]

  need we'll get there when we get there and now it sounds like your kind of [TS]

  rethinking what makes it open source make it so much more appealing to you [TS]

  because you're not you're not about to be contributing to pull requests or [TS]

  anything like that so why don't know so why does it being open source suddenly [TS]

  change your opinion because now now mastering swift now has more value to me [TS]

  because now there's a chance I can use it on the server side as well and and [TS]

  there's there's now a roadmap insight where that is looking likely and [TS]

  plausible and and potentially very good so that's a big reason now it isn't just [TS]

  00 just learn how to do everything I've already been doing the same platform [TS]

  with no possible other impact besides just you know that the language of [TS]

  building benefit which I don't care that strongly about yet now it's also you [TS]

  know I I need to learn a better website language I really do I am constantly [TS]

  hitting PHD's limits and I'm constantly running into problems with it whenever I [TS]

  do new development and it's not that I you know it's not the you know PHP is [TS]

  constantly pressuring but it seems on shaky ground that you have expressed [TS]

  before that I I just don't see why why I like that that I don't really believe [TS]

  that that is leadership is taking it in good directions [TS]

  has but you know it starts to affect me anyway so i i i want to get off PHP is [TS]

  sooner rather than later but I also don't think is the answer [TS]

  necessarily like it's it's good enough for now but I'm still looking for a [TS]

  better overall web language to switch to I don't think it's gonna be I don't [TS]

  think there's going to be it for this to potentially step in that role then this [TS]

  gives me a really big reason to learn swift not to mention the code sharing [TS]

  benefits you know if I can have if I can have like the model layers shared [TS]

  between like say overcast and its Web Component stuff there's a lot of [TS]

  benefits to having that kind of code sharing potential [TS]

  and III even simple things like right now the main reason why the overcast web [TS]

  interface does not have playlists is because I don't want to have to put the [TS]

  code that the playlist used to order themselves which is a very complicated [TS]

  piece of your C code I don't report that to PHP because I'm I it's going to be a [TS]

  massive amount of work to get a right answer to be buggy I don't want it's not [TS]

  worth it if there's there's opportunities like that were like if I [TS]

  could say the same thing on both sides that would that would be much more [TS]

  easily solve problem so you know I'm looking forward to to a future where I [TS]

  can just master one that's my style my style is not to learn 16 different [TS]

  languages and and to have a shallow person each of them might my style is to [TS]

  really master one thing and use it for ever use it until after making fun of me [TS]

  for using it and then finally switch so that's why that's how it got me here and [TS]

  I think I would love for swift to be the next language to do that with and this [TS]

  now showed me that that has a good chance of being possible as you make [TS]

  your own web remarking swift because there won't be one [TS]

  well it probably will be one pretty soon but yeah there if they are there already [TS]

  a couple but I know right now based on the new foundation based on all the new [TS]

  stuff like that that wasn't part of Apple's App Store stop by the way here's [TS]

  what we're using our services with because Apple surely using several sites [TS]

  where and how they're incorporating and I'm not sure but there is no equivalent [TS]

  to you know whatever your favorite web even equivalent I don't think there's [TS]

  even a simple server port listening stuff that's in the gold standard [TS]

  libraries is there no that's what I mean is is this is the networking stuff [TS]

  you've imported yet just never were you want some of that you need something [TS]

  like over teens are an event driven luper you need something to handle you [TS]

  know process [TS]

  request there once you know there's there's an opportunity for people who [TS]

  want to do something potentially you know dramatic and something that has a [TS]

  big footprint of affect the first person to make a really good web framework in [TS]

  suicide swift will have the attention of everybody who's in the same situation as [TS]

  Marco just got an iOS app and I would love to be able to share the faceless [TS]

  components between the server and the client I don't wanna have to think about [TS]

  all the crap about running after listening to depart dispatching based on [TS]

  URL since I want a fairly simple but reliable fast framework to do that for [TS]

  me if someone makes one I would use it cuz you just want to plug in your model [TS]

  code you don't want to deal with like request routing and parsing HTTP headers [TS]

  and crap like that you know you ideally that's that should all be handled by any [TS]

  modern framework like I there's no there's no reason for doing that stuff [TS]

  manually anymore I mean and standard library handle it and go as their [TS]

  library functions and things like that but stressed that the gap and so far [TS]

  more points it would probably continue this topic and future shows when i doing [TS]

  but and the topic of Apple being more open craig Venter et who like the head [TS]

  of all software and Apple at a notice title is he is making the rounds of the [TS]

  websites is interviewed at Ars Technica I think he talked to the next Weber a [TS]

  bunch of other websites I read reviews where craig Venter you talked to a bunch [TS]

  of websites about this with open source project when has that happened it [TS]

  definitely in new Apple thing like that they send out one of their guys to make [TS]

  the rounds of the relatively speaking [TS]

  you know dinky little websites I can you know you'd see Steve Jobs go on CNN or [TS]

  something and talk to the Wall Street Journal and The New York Times but [TS]

  that's it but now he is talking to the second tier websites in the tech press [TS]

  yeah CNN doesn't want to hear about open source with basically but no this is [TS]

  this great yeah I think this is a great meeting you know he's going to be saying [TS]

  the same things every different website or whatever but but it is I don't know [TS]

  it just makes you feel better the like ya see what you can do apple just like [TS]

  regular PR in some ways Apple was I was also named as interesting and special [TS]

  because they did [TS]

  regular PR like every other company anything they do they think is in [TS]

  remotely important like a proud though child see what I made see looked like [TS]

  this [TS]

  refrigerator right and Apple would just be like we say nothing we talk to you at [TS]

  this number of times a year [TS]

  everything else we do maybe the press release on our site and I talked to you [TS]

  just reblog our press release like or don't we don't care like whatever but [TS]

  now they're actually saying hey we've got Craig here you wanna talk to me want [TS]

  to talk to you about open source with like to to the tech websites and so [TS]

  that's just weird and I think that the weather's don't even know how to handle [TS]

  it like a lot of these websites are not accustomed to interviewing and executive [TS]

  and then writing an article based on that interview with Apple executives [TS]

  because it's like so do I just transcribe exactly what they said even [TS]

  though their sentence doesn't quite make sense or do I cleaned up a little bit [TS]

  but then will they be afraid I misquoting them and it seems like [TS]

  awkward it's like I didn't think you'd actually show up is this really you I [TS]

  guess [TS]

  guess [TS]

  he'd like let's talk about swift 45 minutes and then I'll write something [TS]

  about this is totally weird so it definitely it definitely feels weird I [TS]

  mean it would be weird it was you know Chris Lattner talking to everybody but [TS]

  hurry to make sense is that a loss of her department and he's gonna tell you [TS]

  why Apple is open soaring swift and that's a good idea so put a link to the [TS]

  article but you can see a bunch of other things around and this is definitely a [TS]

  must I guess is the appropriate Cold War metaphor for this so I thought that was [TS]

  exciting and I hope to see more of that like you know do it every time every [TS]

  single thing to do but we're sorry the signal to send out an emissary [TS]

  essentially are found sponsor tonight is Harry's go to Harry's dot com use promo [TS]

  code ATPs a $5 off your first purchase harry's offers high-quality razors and [TS]

  blades refresh of the press the big reason brands these are high quality [TS]

  high performing German blades crafted by shaving experts to give you a better [TS]

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  you don't wait around for some guy to open up the keys in the drugstore [TS]

  anything they ship them directly to your door from a nice easy to use beautiful [TS]

  website the great customer service if you ever needed a starter set is an [TS]

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  cartridges when you more blades for just $2 each or less an eight pack is just [TS]

  $15 a 16 pack is $25 now I have been a huge shaving her before I have use the [TS]

  double-edge safety razors from Federer and everything and all have to Fusion [TS]

  ProGlide I really do think that Harry's is the best value in the shaving [TS]

  business bar none [TS]

  it is so cheap that if you want to use a brand new cartridge every time you shave [TS]

  that's not unreasonable this is the holy grail everybody was wants to use a brand [TS]

  new blade every time and really this is this is ridiculous for most of shaving [TS]

  history because they were just so expensive and now they're not so areas [TS]

  is really making dreams come true with this so I really do like them a lot [TS]

  there are great value great quality and their their design is really classy the [TS]

  handles ugly greater nicely weighted dice and heavy hand [TS]

  wills classic designs you don't look like you're in some kind of Transformers [TS]

  commercial or anything it looks great now with Harry's you think you've been [TS]

  ordering online high-quality blades a great handling shaving cream and [TS]

  excellent customer service and half the price of the big brands gets her today [TS]

  with a handle three blades and cream for just $15 including free shipping to your [TS]

  door [TS]

  go to Harry's dot com and you can use promo code ATP to save $5 off your first [TS]

  purchase thanks love to hear his response on our show you don't have one [TS]

  more thing to add about quest for this show we're going to talk more about open [TS]

  source with an ex I'm sure cuz we just put a dividing line the notes about it [TS]

  with one thing we forgot to mention is what licenses this one open source [TS]

  licenses and it is the Apache 2.0 License with a special exception to not [TS]

  require you to open source stuff that you build into like a single library or [TS]

  something that happens to start to pull in some of the swift flight runtime that [TS]

  saying that you don't have to open source that when it's ok that you know [TS]

  by and with the swift standard library whatever doesn't mean that you have to [TS]

  something open source for all applications so it's a very permissive [TS]

  license its not ppl because both commercial company and they would never [TS]

  do DPL because it is intentionally viral and Apple doesn't like the virality of [TS]

  that particular of the constraints and forced by the GPL so I think for the [TS]

  most part no one is surprised by the license and for the most part the [TS]

  expected to be happy about an expected people are unhappy about it there is a [TS]

  fun this is actually the Commission briefly is it a thing with a lot of open [TS]

  source projects where where you put the source code is it necessarily the same [TS]

  place where you want people to file a bug so get up like many places that you [TS]

  can put source code for also has what they called issue tracker which is [TS]

  basically a bug tracker but Apple of course has its own boat recalled radar [TS]

  and swift does not use the issue tracker on github it has its own website like [TS]

  bugs that's without org and I think that's where they want you to file the [TS]

  bugs unless they want you to follow our radar it's a little bit confusing and it [TS]

  starts with argan eventually be led to the right place but the bottom line is [TS]

  on github you can't I think at issues but you can issue pull request someone [TS]

  immediately made upon request to change the license like GPL or something [TS]

  a million people told the thread with animated gifs and stuff so I will put [TS]

  that one commissioned as well as well so you can enjoy looking at that the first [TS]

  strolling pull request I get help for swift and of course this License which [TS]

  far as I'm concerned I don't care about I think that the caller ID license their [TS]

  percent it's fine but other people do care about it and so there you have it [TS]

  any other thoughts before next week we're just gonna say we're just gonna [TS]

  hold ya gonna hold more more to talk about him I probably got more in depth [TS]

  in the same topics for geeks and hopefully by next week we'll know more [TS]

  about this because this week [TS]

  record this we only have something like four hours we'll see what happens [TS]

  alright overall good week we still have a headphone jack and swift had a lot of [TS]

  good stuff so I'm happy thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week [TS]

  areas were Parker and cards against humanity and we will see you next week [TS]

  or hear you next week or speech just keep saying that the same way you always [TS]

  been saying it works fine you will hear us next week not this terrible what to [TS]

  say and we will see you next week you had a thing you think people need [TS]

  repetition of familiar phrases and beats in the story structure that is our [TS]

  podcast to feel at home don't mess with it and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin accidental john Kasay [TS]

  death and you can be there and a team Marco [TS]

  I don't ask much I cause I don't use Dropbox and don't really use my car [TS]

  driving a lot of people do like you know what I could drive is probably OK the [TS]

  tropics works for me I just keep using it but in other aspects I want to trust [TS]

  I club like when the new notes came out and it changed the backend for my mouth [TS]

  I kept thinking I was glad and I started using it and [TS]

  and the most part it's been working and so my daughter has been writing to write [TS]

  stories and she started wanting to write one by typing instead of their riding on [TS]

  nope it's both but she also want to have won this year's typing and I want to set [TS]

  her up there okay here you go you can type something and I think this is a [TS]

  perfect opportunity to use pages [TS]

  the latest version of pages she also got it on her iPad with the latest version [TS]

  of the original pages she just wants the type of stories just words on a page not [TS]

  very demanding and it would be nice if she could do it in both places right you [TS]

  know pages is integrated with iCloud and you make a document and she could type [TS]

  on the computer and then she's in her room with the iPad she could continue [TS]

  typing on the iPad seem like the ideal opportunity and new page layout I'm not [TS]

  doing anything fancy here could have maybe use text ended its amenities pages [TS]

  and have integration and vaguely everything that I work website even [TS]

  gonna retire so I set up these pages and she's typing a long and typing on and [TS]

  then I realized she had received no monetary sure about saving which said [TS]

  the first time to show your kids about saving kids are saving what are you even [TS]

  talking about like it's such an alien concept doesn't make any sense like this [TS]

  is a thing you have to do why do you have to just go through the whole thing [TS]

  and I said she doesn't I didn't go into the open saved I just like look I bring [TS]

  it to the right place I'm so it's safe to say you have to do by heading to [TS]

  Manchester liking this command every once in a while but to initially start [TS]

  will give the thing a name and I will put it in iCloud drive right but when [TS]

  will you know I picked up a lot better now she says and she's typing on that [TS]

  works fine for like a day or two then at some point I said you know like I think [TS]

  you need to get kicked off the computer kicked out of something like what you [TS]

  can continue writing this on your iPad and she's not surprised about or [TS]

  impressed by the way she was like alright fine and then I loading pages up [TS]

  on her iPad tried to open the document that she had just been editing on Mac [TS]

  and it wouldn't open and so what is it simply it looks like the document is [TS]

  being modified or something like it complained cuz I still have it open on [TS]

  the Mac that's messed up but fine whatever I'll close it on the Mac and [TS]

  open and on the iPad and eventually open the iPad and you start typing stuff and [TS]

  of course there's no you know like saving action going on there and then [TS]

  which was done with that included it was gone and then she came back to the Mac [TS]

  and said I want to the american now and we went to open pages and open the [TS]

  document and it gives $1 boxes like this document can be open right now I think [TS]

  it's also because it's being modified from those with health message bottom [TS]

  line was you couldn't open double clicking it didn't work opening it from [TS]

  the application didn't work then I tried to open the iPad also wouldn't open on [TS]

  the iPad I'm not asking the world view this is Apple hardware Apple software [TS]

  latest version latest version of application latest version of the OS I [TS]

  just wanted the same document in two different places and now i cant open to [TS]

  anywhere and my daughter is upset justifiably so because previously [TS]

  everything was fine I was riding on my Mac and because dad wanted to say even [TS]

  though you can write on your iPad now i cant open in anywhere and maybe it's [TS]

  gone and so I have to fix this problem by figuring out what the deal is like I [TS]

  tried everything you can imagine eventually I tried copying the documents [TS]

  out of the iCloud thing and like opening it and pulling out the tax thing copying [TS]

  and pasting into new text document and i said i call someone try Club Dr screw [TS]

  this I'm putting it in Dropbox so I could drive was cut out of the equation [TS]

  I put them in Dropbox now I'm terrified to even try to open it on the iPad [TS]

  because that may and opposing think I thought I was in the clear I might say [TS]

  the new Dropbox she doesn't know where it saves about $7 said I told you can't [TS]

  use on the iPad in a market that doesn't work that crap doesn't work and I had to [TS]

  move out of my car driver loses a total failure of the most simple thing you can [TS]

  possibly do a single person having a single document in iCloud drive on you [TS]

  know everything perfect and just just abject total failure like not even that [TS]

  didn't work it didn't sink or whatever just you could you could open document [TS]

  it all then she decided to write a new story and so I should have to make a new [TS]

  document [TS]

  and she was typing for a while and I came in and once again she had not saved [TS]

  for you know twenty minutes and is that all you have to say that right and I [TS]

  want to say it and it you know I'm saving in Dropbox now instead of a drive [TS]

  so it's a if you ask me for filename has never been given a name before I type in [TS]

  a name for it hit the Save button says untitled cannot be read [TS]

  popping back didn't save a try-saving end I say that as you know saving in a [TS]

  different location not in Dropbox unrealistic says untitled cannot be read [TS]

  group send him back to document I'm like are you serious now I made a new [TS]

  document I can't even save it to the local filesystem this is just the [TS]

  brokenness thing I've ever seen in my life like seriously you know me I E max [TS]

  I just wanna make a text document and save it to the local disk I don't know [TS]

  what was wrong at this point I don't even care like I feel like burning pages [TS]

  to the ground and just never looking at it again I don't know what the problem [TS]

  is like it because the new document was automatically made an iCloud and [TS]

  something opposed by the way the ghost of the old document that was an iCloud [TS]

  is still there at like this half packaging that I can't do it because the [TS]

  37 in the Finder some crap like that so maybe I'm just entirely hoster I Club [TS]

  Drive and because when you make a new document also say that I club the very [TS]

  fact of me trying to save it to local disk has to read the document my club I [TS]

  could drive on what you read about things in use I really horrifying [TS]

  complete failure of the most simple thing you could possibly do with pages [TS]

  which is make a text document and adjust it just boggles my mind and I just like [TS]

  what would regular people do like they would never try pages again I probably [TS]

  will never try pages again she kinda knows how to use pages and knows how to [TS]

  change the font and stuff so I'm afraid to switch out of that until i text that [TS]

  but unlike maybe just under two microsoft word 2003 and be able to save [TS]

  documents and Google Docs or crowd I know Google Docs will work we use it all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  edit this document and at no time are we all not able to open this document in no [TS]

  time are not able to save it like Apple what is going on I don't I don't mind [TS]

  and still as I sit here right now in her I Club Drive is the ghost of some [TS]

  ancient pages file paxon that I literally cannot delete from the finder [TS]

  I don't know one of the most depressing experiences I've had that will serve as [TS]

  I software in two years but saying a lot [TS]

  series of those like I i cant can you think of some obviously did also be [TS]

  worth of data loss and it wouldn't be allowed to date someone wasn't there [TS]

  didn't realize that you can you know select all copy and paste into a new [TS]

  thing you know find your way out of it but for a brief period of time I cannot [TS]

  open up her original Pages document anywhere [TS]

  couldn't open in any Mac can open any iOS device every time he tried to open [TS]

  it would give you an error and it was the only copy of the file that we had [TS]

  you learned a lesson that I'm slowly learning over the last couple of months [TS]

  which is that I think for maximum happiness is is best to keep a little [TS]

  bit more distance from Apple stuff than what we've been keeping and you know for [TS]

  me like that you know I'm rethinking my use of photos I'm rethinking my use of [TS]

  any kind of iCloud backend stuff rethinking whether even wanna keep [TS]

  wearing the Apple watch there's a lot of things were like you know Apple right [TS]

  now they're so big they're doing so much stuff they're spread so thin so much of [TS]

  Apple's stuff is in this 1.0 or beta state recently with no end in sight and [TS]

  it seemed like the direction the company is going is towards being even more [TS]

  spread thin can be having even more like 1.0 have finished products it's it's [TS]

  important for for people like us who do care about you know our our computing [TS]

  life happiness are stability or data integrity I i think it's important [TS]

  forces are realizing like you know going all-in and Apple is not happening [TS]

  anymore and it's best to keep some distance and you know maybe have a Mac [TS]

  and iPhone but you know not every iPad plus the Apple TV + every phone every [TS]

  year plus the Apple watch plus being other news services at music and photo [TS]

  photo library cloud all sorts of you know maybe not having everything I think [TS]

  you for me mostly what I have already known as long as its stick to the [TS]

  products that are really important Apple photos is way more important the pages [TS]

  and it shows I feel like right and things like i cud drive where there's [TS]

  already an alternative that I'll that I've been using the words to me like [TS]

  Dropbox right don't switch da club Dr just because it's apples thing because [TS]

  you already have Dropbox injury does that like it's the same reason I use [TS]

  Gmail [TS]

  pretty much no matter what Apple does without application and iCloud mail I [TS]

  would never switch from Gmail Gmail starts being unsatisfactory to me right [TS]

  now that's the whole thing is like just because Apple makes a version of a thing [TS]

  that you already have been like don't switch to it because you think the Apple [TS]

  thing is going to be better right [TS]

  only switch when you are dissatisfied with the thing that you have some not [TS]

  dissatisfied with Dropbox so I mean I did it for my daughter is giving her a [TS]

  difference like I'm thinking a different standard her like she has nothing now so [TS]

  maybe if she just starts off as an iCloud person right from day one and put [TS]

  all our stuff and I could drive maybe work out fine for I already have you [TS]

  know investment in Dropbox my stuff in Dropbox my habits formed in Dropbox [TS]

  Dropbox third party company could get acquired by someone could go out of [TS]

  business from a kid that they like you just start straight up apple and you [TS]

  just have you know one account and everything's on your Apple idea but I [TS]

  won't that be simpler for you it's less for me to explain like it's bad enough [TS]

  that my mother still insist on having to email addresses the pain it caused me is [TS]

  just tremendous amount of pain one is for spam and honestly I've kind of done [TS]

  that with my kids too because I don't trust because I'm so distrustful of [TS]

  Apple Mail I gave them both Gmail accounts as well so they have and you [TS]

  know it could be conducive to them if that was their revealed the confusion by [TS]

  just hit the Apple Mail app on their iOS devices just see the gmail icon is how [TS]

  they get there but for this that I made a different choice then it would offer [TS]

  myself basically cuz I would never done it before them I decided to do it and it [TS]

  was a mistake so I really need to trust my instincts more on if it's really [TS]

  really important to Apple it has a much higher chance then if it's like that [TS]

  sometimes I think it's maybe a healthy way to look at this would be in in the [TS]

  in the last ten years so we we keep going more and more towards integration [TS]

  and and and these these you know an increasingly smaller number of companies [TS]

  at each increasingly offer a larger number of services and products that [TS]

  people are expected to come to go all in one company for oh you're all in the [TS]

  Apple ecosystem are you all the Google ecosystem or whatever and I i think what [TS]

  what may be a better it would it look at this is kinda like the the danger of a [TS]

  monoculture and that if you're all in on on anything that it makes you vulnerable [TS]

  to problems and and maybe the healthier thing to do is to maintain diversity in [TS]

  the things that you use and things you rely on so you know I'm all-in on on [TS]

  Apple stuff in a lot of ways but I don't use i-five drive because it feels like a [TS]

  little too much in a way that Apple's not very good at usually so and i ended [TS]

  my email I use fast enough for that with me in front of it so I you know that's [TS]

  why wouldn't I wouldn't trust I thought mail even know a lot of people do it [TS]

  works fine I'm surprised you didn't tell me your usual speech was like really in [TS]

  this is true I just have been Laxmi doing it the right thing to do for my [TS]

  kids not to get on Gmail accounts are applicants the right thing to do is [TS]

  giving them accounts in a demand that I own even if behind the scenes like some [TS]

  kind of doing them a disservice by not doing that but then again they're not [TS]

  going to do then they're gonna become adults and pick their own place I just [TS]

  hope won't be hotmail hotmail will never die but I can get my sister I tried I [TS]

  really tried she has a gmail account hotmail goes to it you can email from [TS]

  hotmail through it just I could do it she keeps going back [TS]

  will it fit [TS]

  will it fit [TS]

  but you're always sick here here's how I know that I'm going to be second Adam [TS]

  isn't school and it's the winter [TS]

  therefore we are sick of France's persons name you both know this person [TS]

  rate Andreas nothin was one of the many people who read it has that apparently [TS]

  IMAX no longer have IR sensors since around 2012 so people suggesting that [TS]

  perhaps my shiny new 5 k iMac was getting woken from sleep by our panel [TS]

  that's not happening because there's no sensor that's kinda go to in other words [TS]

  this ancient history is that IMAX have not had a IR sensors since four years [TS]

  after your Mac Pro is made that you're still using everyday still working just [TS]

  fine I'm wondering at this point I'm wondering if I can make it ten years but [TS]

  I don't want to just make an external display for crying out loud [TS]

  you make it there they're not going to make the computer you want ever and see [TS]

  if your gonna keep holding on [TS]

  well I just need an external five-game displaying the computer the contrived in [TS]

  an economic the display with no computer the drunken driving in the neck and make [TS]

  sure they can drive with no display so it won't happen [TS]

  the computer that drives it is gonna not have the right kenny gaming card for you [TS]

  and configure its gonna be way too expensive not going to be the right [TS]

  right kind but it'll be acceptable it will be way faster than everything else [TS]

  I have including the one that's built into the iMac goodness did I tell you [TS]

  guys that working out of a client's office for the last month or so and will [TS]

  be for awhile you know as working for a client goes it's pretty good but it's [TS]

  still kind of weird doing the staff fog thing which is not what I'm used to [TS]

  doing but anyway we wait the what the staff blog what does that mean John I [TS]

  have no idea really insulting language you're speaking now I never did [TS]

  consulting [TS]

  Virginia think I'm gonna now it's not a Virginia thing it's a consulting thing [TS]

  staff augmentation so generally speaking the work I do I woulda got that if you [TS]

  pronounce it like a New Yorker I was like staff August Orbis I I thought the [TS]

  OG yeah but you hang out with different views and his staff disabled what you [TS]

  doin stempel fair enough so they have all my clock is ticking like this you [TS]

  know just just as a [TS]

  a random guess here I'm guessing that nobody who has a New York accent thick [TS]

  enough to notice like that would ever say staff like that just the phrase [TS]

  would never use that phrase that's it there's no overlap between the [TS]

  population who would say that phrase and people who would have that accent people [TS]

  are there are consultants and to use the sky so anyway so I'm doing staff log and [TS]

  and basically what that means is it rather than having a group of my [TS]

  co-workers that is working to sought to build a project as a group often in [TS]

  concert with the client yeah we prefer to do it in concert with a client but [TS]

  it's it's a group of us this by comparison is basically I get kicked in [TS]

  the butt over to a client's office and said come back in a few months when the [TS]

  client doesn't wanna pay for your time anymore and so much by myself anyway the [TS]

  reason I actually bring this up is I got issued that god awful del that I had [TS]

  tweeted a picture of the god-awful keyboard and i got to tell you the [TS]

  trackpad is unusable I fiddle with the settings to kingdom come the trackpad is [TS]

  unusable wanna know how anyone uses a Dell but anyway I look around me and you [TS]

  know what I see all over this office cinema displays everywhere [TS]

  drives me insane I want so badly even though I know there's much better [TS]

  displaced we had but I've always just thought they were so pretty and [TS]

  beautiful and they have like a quasi docking station and I want one so bad [TS]

  and they're everywhere they get you have when you plug in all of your firewire [TS]

  400 devices I know right [TS]

  delightful now I am jealous of it I love to have like that you have the internet [TS]

  hanging off their my mic setup at home hanging off their man can dream but yeah [TS]

  so here I am using my Dell with all of these displays a MacBook Pro and MacBook [TS]

  Airs all around me a real consulting if only you had two or three Mac laptops [TS]

  that you could bring one to your clients that's what I do I bring my work laptop [TS]

  so I can't get work email and talk on work [TS]

  etcetera etcetera but it's depressing well it would be more depressing if you [TS]

  really were tied to the idea of listening to your headphones on your [TS]

  iPhone while you are working and charging at same time which might not be [TS]

  possible next year you're jumping ahead jumping ahead I we have more follow-up [TS]

  though I idea I derailed us then you tried to move the train forward let's [TS]

  let's get back on the tracks not too much power of saudi riyal sign there [TS]

  this is from Sebastian routes cruise by the German names today trying to tell us [TS]

  about a little bit of the history behind and DNS responder and discovered he and [TS]

  all that stuff this story is told in a video that is in German so we're getting [TS]

  this translated for us so we'll put a link to the video in the shower nuts if [TS]

  you understand German you can watch it but anyway we're taking this person's [TS]

  word translation apparently the story is about events surf the father of the [TS]

  internet can read his Wikipedia page if you wanna talk about him and dark and [TS]

  tcp/ip and all that good stuff anyway he was at an IETF meeting internet [TS]

  Engineering Task Force MTG and it was set up in his printer isn't working [TS]

  anymore so he called that Tim Cook which thing you can do when your answer and [TS]

  your pissed off about your printer not working and Tim Cook then talk to [TS]

  Stewart Cheshire who is the guy who invented Bonjour formerly known as [TS]

  rendezvous and a bunch of other Apple networking stuff and told him to [TS]

  investigate and eventually they're the ones who supposedly came up with the [TS]

  idea of let's just take out discovered the input Mtns responder and see if that [TS]

  fixes the problem so this is the possibly apocryphal story of what one [TS]

  possible contributing factor to why did Apple iPad Apple know what would it take [TS]

  for Apple to take action and actually fix this problem once and for all this [TS]

  time I was found seriously depressing there's even any a bit of truth it's [TS]

  like well I wouldn't care until then surf called Tim Cook and that's how the [TS]

  message actually got to top that there was a problem I really don't like to [TS]

  believe that these things are true but it does make for a funny story yeah I [TS]

  mean honestly it's plausible based on based on Apple's apparent reaction to [TS]

  the you know all the sudden there's a problem in Apple knows about it suddenly [TS]

  but we've all known about it for years it kind of does seem like whatever [TS]

  system is supposed to inform the high ups [TS]

  about these problems that a lot of people face is falling over somewhere [TS]

  along the way [TS]

  likes that system the the higher ups are measuring something and they're getting [TS]

  data from something but it doesn't seem like most of the actual problems an [TS]

  actual criticism is reaching them and that's a little bit scary big companies [TS]

  are all like that to some degree it's just that you know is the fantasy [TS]

  scenario that that you have as a child that follows many people to adulthood [TS]

  that it like somewhere in the world there are the grown-up people who know [TS]

  what they're doing and like when you become an adult [TS]

  most evil than you realize that that's not the case now I'm an adult I realized [TS]

  no one knows what they're doing right but we hold onto a little bit of that [TS]

  especially for the for the things that we admired like okay my company doesn't [TS]

  know what he's done the higher ups in my company have no clue and my company this [TS]

  functional but surely the richest company in the world the most successful [TS]

  technology company in the world [TS]

  got that way because they're better than my crappy company so even though I [TS]

  understand that yes no no they doing this know people somewhere who are alike [TS]

  in charge and actually understand things surely Apple is at least a little bit [TS]

  different but the big companies like any other big company and its really [TS]

  difficult to organize a big company in a way that doesnt incentivize people in [TS]

  management layers below the top to hide bad news from the people about them [TS]

  because they get raided and judged by how well they're doing and you like it's [TS]

  it's it's in everyone's best interest to some degree to not only do not convey [TS]

  that lossless Lee up the management chain right and so that's why i like it [TS]

  described this as a text from the top down where you would hope that there's [TS]

  lots of other people talking to lots of other customers and stuff about problems [TS]

  and doing all you know the leaf nodes at the org chart to north of things [TS]

  involving customers gathering information so on and so forth but that [TS]

  information has to go up up up the chain and the more level that have to go [TS]

  through the more likely it is to be toned down [TS]

  on or three prioritized or whatever until about time against the top [TS]

  something that is a real problem for most of the end users to delete notes [TS]

  know about but I'ma get the top doesn't seem like that big of a deal so it has [TS]

  to come you know and and the other is human nature of the people the top maybe [TS]

  but surf was not annoyed by discovered he say he was denied by some other thing [TS]

  that just happened to annoy him that might have gotten fixed and that just [TS]

  would have been in service problems so he would have bypassed the entire [TS]

  organization to get the thing that isn't a problem for most of the people fixed [TS]

  and he would be happy and so in some respects the organization is working to [TS]

  try to prioritize things to tell Tim Cook what's really important in this [TS]

  case it just so happened that the top down you know celebrity based fixing [TS]

  also happened to him on the thing that was a problem for a lot of other people [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  companies are messed up to talk about you don't like Mei Casey mark on a [TS]

  little bit strange becomes NKC having worked in consulted for becoming very [TS]

  least have you seen some of this going on where the the lower you get the org [TS]

  chart the more people really know what's going on [TS]

  oh god yes and not at the company on consulting with now but I think we [TS]

  talked about Michelle two years ago but there is a large firm in Richmond that i [TS]

  that i did some consulting for and it was abundantly obvious to me that most [TS]

  of the organizations middle management and most of the organization [TS]

  motor brilliant these middle managers really knew deep down that they were all [TS]

  redundant and so every meeting you are in everyone wanted to be included in [TS]

  everyone wanted to say something really really interesting so everyone around [TS]

  them new Oh Susie isn't expendable because he just said something smart [TS]

  John [TS]

  Bob sorry babe he's expendable because he really say anything this meeting and [TS]

  was just ridiculous because it was a billion middle managers and like seven [TS]

  actual grants to actually get work done here absolutely right point of the story [TS]

  about John Mayer the musician famously emailing bugs in logic directly to Steve [TS]

  Jobs and then they got fixed [TS]

  get an email the logic team get an email as fix this and that's another a test [TS]

  like the worst way to do this by the way like to have a famous person go to the [TS]

  very top of your organization and have the personality organization highly [TS]

  motivated to satisfy the famous person because sometimes the famous personal [TS]

  final the jet bug that everyone's experience but a lot of time the famous [TS]

  person would just be annoyed by some minor issue and why do they get this [TS]

  special treatment like they maybe you know reshaping the application in a bad [TS]

  way for most people just to satisfy John Mayer's this is not scale says I'm not [TS]

  saying like the way it works now with leaf nodes not message not getting up is [TS]

  bad and this is better [TS]

  really you don't need one of those things you want and efficient [TS]

  organization that correctly communicates what's really happening to your [TS]

  customers and how they really feel about your product up the management change [TS]

  without diluting it in a way to protect the reputation of your group or whatever [TS]

  it is that you're doing is a manager to try to say well this wasn't our fault in [TS]

  this isn't that big of a problem and everything we made in this press release [TS]

  is going really well as so give me good rating and a big bonus this year our [TS]

  first budget this week is cards against humanity and rather than a regular [TS]

  sponsor read they asked John to review one last toaster [TS]

  countertop I hope you're gonna study found that toaster in my garage I didn't [TS]

  realize I had that the monstrosity but the big griddle on top of it [TS]

  stuff since I didn't realize I had that toaster at some point during the year [TS]

  you might ask the question of where that is like the average cost for this [TS]

  weekend about you know I don't have a toaster and then they would rush went [TS]

  out to me I would get a toaster and so basically somewhere their account got [TS]

  off so a toaster arrived for this week but I already had toaster so now I have [TS]

  two tests this week and the sentencing on them because this is the last week so [TS]

  this is going to be double toaster [TS]

  this is exciting lucky lucky you the first toaster is the Americana [TS]

  collection 3 in 1 mini breakfasts shop shop with two peas in a hyphen 200 BL [TS]

  and if you look at it looks a lot like the crazy one from the last time the red [TS]

  thing [TS]

  toaster oven it's got a little tiny coffee pot drip coffee pot thing and on [TS]

  top of the toaster it's got a little thing that gets hot but you can cook [TS]

  some eggs or something right [TS]

  the last one when I said that the coffee thing even though the picture you're [TS]

  picturing it like it's a regular drip coffee thing really it's like tiny and [TS]

  also as this one my daughter actually said in the kitchen she walked up as it [TS]

  looks like it's for a doll is microscopic it is incredibly incredibly [TS]

  small obviously the coffee thing is tiny but look at the toaster part of me is [TS]

  you can look at the measurements and try to get an idea for a bit here is the [TS]

  best way I can describe it to our audience the trade at slides inside the [TS]

  toaster is smaller than a magic trackpad too can you even fit one piece of bread [TS]

  on their infant one piece of bread in there it's not too big so you can 22 wow [TS]

  yeah so this is very similar to the old one such a market for these three and [TS]

  one thanks so similar likes of the coffee thing looks like it might even be [TS]

  using some of the same parts that when still does its job you can put water in [TS]

  their heated up pretty quickly dip trip through the filter into the thing is if [TS]

  you like drip coffee this is this is a drip coffee thing it doesn't take too [TS]

  long to boil the water got the same type of thing with top down the sides what [TS]

  heating elements will be on in the bottom line is just a plain time [TS]

  bother but little pictures of light medium and dark toasted is like last [TS]

  time I just heard it good luck to give you any guidance there and it's gonna [TS]

  give you any guidance because trying to toast the piece of toast in there at [TS]

  around five minutes and 50 seconds I gave up not being able to see any real [TS]

  color on the top of the toast and I took it out in the bottom was overdone a [TS]

  practically black in the middle and a top 10 no Colorado that's almost six [TS]

  minutes so as a toaster it fails to talk even though you into one piece of bread [TS]

  in there it fails the test that there is no just over at by the way so I think [TS]

  maybe why the burning on the bottom and click on top maybe doesn't adjust the [TS]

  top thing instead of having a full-size griddle and has a circular 10 same [TS]

  problem as before just doesn't it isn't hot enough for doesn't like I think they [TS]

  promise this time the thermal mass like it's just a thin piece of metal so that [TS]

  when you put the egg on it just sucks all the heat out of the thing in the [TS]

  heating element don't have enough to keep up like I think basically the grid [TS]

  access heatsink for the heating elements dissipating their heat but not into the [TS]

  egg so I was able to go in for one egg on their size of a poached egg thing [TS]

  right so I was able to go on Friday gonna have to say did a better job than [TS]

  the previous one and that one egg I was able to cook it and it came out like an [TS]

  actual I get cooked enough to to stay together and let me flip it over and [TS]

  everything so but really nobody should ever buy this or the other thing it's [TS]

  not good anything that it does things it is adorable dog has been sitting in the [TS]

  kitchen [TS]

  this one even more than the red one looks at our looks like the looks like [TS]

  you have an easy bake oven on you can talk the talk but it really works sort [TS]

  of yet to varying degrees of work I wish you could try the coffee is just got a [TS]

  filter in there comes with the filter makes the water hot it runs it through [TS]

  the filter something a little thing like that I don't see how the machine itself [TS]

  could affect the quality of the coffee coming out of it is it really is the [TS]

  most primitive thing you can imagine all just plastic parts inside there's [TS]

  nothing fancy it is not only the price but is this is like $35 yeah you got me [TS]

  when you're paying for their so I think the main market for this would be [TS]

  Hollywood prop buyers who want to put something in the background of a scene [TS]

  seen in like a cute kitchen apartment in like Manhattan or something [TS]

  would I i really do want to obviously there's a market for these because so [TS]

  many are for sale but I just have to wonder who is buying suckers people who [TS]

  think it's a great way to save counter space I have three things on the same [TS]

  problems like who wants to cut off your toaster oven or toaster ovens usually [TS]

  underneath like their overhead cabinets above the menu making hot steaming onto [TS]

  the bottom you can it's just not a good idea even if it were to win big idea and [TS]

  just us like seriously to can tomatoes one slice of bread in six minutes forget [TS]

  the best thing is this has a four-star average review on Amazon with two [TS]

  hundred and forty reviews how has to be paid for [TS]

  maybe they just don't know how these things are supposed to operate [TS]

  everything smaller than expected but works as promised [TS]

  verified purchase the toaster oven was probably the biggest negative is only [TS]

  one left to fit one slice of break through and it doesn't cost that after [TS]

  six minutes [TS]

  fortunately there is a top burner and a bottom burners you can stack two pieces [TS]

  of bread on top of each other and flip them in the middle of cooking now you [TS]

  can please just like hold your breath over a match its cool I can actually [TS]

  take this with me when I'm on the road to set up in the hotels I stay in the [TS]

  things that the drip coffeemaker the hotel's is better than this [TS]

  ya like it and those are terrible and that we're better than this likes dirty [TS]

  and doesn't fall apart as they have to be in hotel room in hotel bar coffee [TS]

  Wow alright anyway the second one must try to you know bring this back from the [TS]

  insanity of these multifunctional my second one is still a jet toaster oven [TS]

  this is the KitchenAid twelve-inch convection bake digital countertop oven [TS]

  model Casey 0 273 the Euro this one in the chat room for everybody who this is [TS]

  a high-priced when this is $187 yeah this is a fancy toaster oven were back [TS]

  to normal again things first thing you have to know about this is it's really [TS]

  big I don't they look the same size on Amazon I have a pretty big toaster the [TS]

  Breville success TXL this is really big its like the bigger rival did so big [TS]

  that I think it really is beyond what is reasonable for most people's kitchens if [TS]

  you have a really really big house this will be to scale down like when you have [TS]

  like a big impact so it's a lot of interior design you have to scale the [TS]

  furniture to the room [TS]

  unfortunately I like the scale of entry to the people but no matter how big you [TS]

  are you have a really small room and you put a gigantic let puppy love yourself [TS]

  and it will over overwhelm the room simulator you have a cavernous room you [TS]

  up at this delicate little to soften it it won't look quite so this is a big [TS]

  toaster oven so do not buy this unless you have a really big kitchen or you [TS]

  really want to dedicate that much space to install too wide it's the pits [TS]

  humongous I when when I put this on my counter since I have like an arrow like [TS]

  New England ancient countertops opening the door practically that's it there's [TS]

  no space left like this toaster I can open the door and I don't remember the [TS]

  door overhanging the edge of my counter but its close this thing is huge its [TS]

  stainless steel like a picture that is actual standstill not plastic colored [TS]

  stainless steel very sturdy construction I think even handle stainless steel [TS]

  which case they handled it like plastic foam insulation it feels Rogan it [TS]

  appeals to you know it looks nice glossy everything feels thick the the wire rack [TS]

  feels incredibly rugged thick gauge wire it's actually a little metal strip on [TS]

  the front of it everything is very solid the door feel solid opens and closes a [TS]

  little not little rubber stoppers big rubber stoppers on it the the spring [TS]

  tension just right doesn't doesn't wobble Creek three positions for the [TS]

  rack and they have little destruction nothing about where they were [TS]

  for this five heating elements for this thing resistance 2012 plus one of the [TS]

  thicker court style ones on top in the middle of the huge that court like one [TS]

  of those like for power to like a year [TS]

  Makita drill or something like a big three prong cord with a very thick cable [TS]

  and the big character and I know what you guys do those who don't they don't [TS]

  have to go into kitchen like we're living people plug in the toaster oven [TS]

  it's like you're gonna put in and then you're gonna plug it in and the plug is [TS]

  going to be just above your counter right the plug sticks out like three [TS]

  inches from the place where you plug in because it's right it's not they need to [TS]

  make flush mount plugs you know you know there's little doubt it you have to make [TS]

  it like even if the plugged in right behind the toaster because it was the [TS]

  toaster be six inches away from the body was not arrested who wants to see this [TS]

  big thick like hard to manage the power requirements but they climb out of [TS]

  people and they don't see the controls on this one if you look at it are very [TS]

  similar to my bro I don't know who copied who obviously a memorable for us [TS]

  I'm thinking how they copied the devil knows there is an LCD on top a backlit [TS]

  LCD on top showing you temperatures timers countdowns the same type of [TS]

  control for you get the pic a temperature and let you know a number of [TS]

  slices or whatever there's two knobs the first one is the function now from a [TS]

  diff things you can do like toast bacon has things to reheat in bagel that does [TS]

  like you know different temperatures during different phases like resembled a [TS]

  bagel do a lower temperature toasted and towards the end to the top elements only [TS]

  really high to toast the bagel assume it's assuming you have a bagel thin [TS]

  sliced in half and stuff like that it's a different more functions in the [TS]

  Breville for all sorts of things is also a conviction of my hope is one of the [TS]

  reasons suffered a huge gotta fill the convection fans in there so there are a [TS]

  function settings for conviction typing to try to take a whole chicken and keep [TS]

  the air flowing and Chris the skin at the end of everything and then the knob [TS]

  load is the control knob which really is just kinda like the the control knob [TS]

  your BMW's or whatever where it where you just press the Select and turn to go [TS]

  up and down selections in the menu the knobs themselves they are not as widely [TS]

  as they're on the Breville the stock plastic for the night as well [TS]

  much slop they're not made to look like thick metal which helps they're nice and [TS]

  materials then the better ones that are like shiny plastic textured they're [TS]

  still a little bit gritty i'm not the best feeling knobs but they're they're [TS]

  better than the prevalence of their pretty good since the function on the [TS]

  bottom really should just be a disk because it's like turn left turn right [TS]

  to go through a series of options and press in its weird that it has like a a [TS]

  flathead screwdriver type like indentation they want you to pension [TS]

  because there's just been around forever like there's no there's no markings or [TS]

  anything it's really just a jog dial basically and it's weird for a jog dial [TS]

  to have a partner even greater because then it's like when you're done with it [TS]

  when do you leave a deal even pointing up to you like anytime you turn it might [TS]

  change in number on the screen so that's a little weird but I think just over 70 [TS]

  and that's gonna start button on the bottom [TS]

  got a little button for frozen things one of the other but remember off the [TS]

  top of my head on the Connection button to turn it back to the knob feels good [TS]

  so so higher quality than my brother and I don't feel like they're shaking about [TS]

  to come off and they're not fake looking like metal but it really plastic but I [TS]

  think the decision to make the jog dial look positional when it's not really is [TS]

  a little bit off the press it is about it's weird to press the button that's [TS]

  you know that's like a dial you can pinch Coast time four minutes 30 seconds [TS]

  for peace toast not great the rebels little bit faster but the things [TS]

  cavernous like you would like it doesn't take eight minutes and it did it pretty [TS]

  decent job of toasting the convection features I didn't have an opportunity to [TS]

  test because I don't have anything that you cooking connection as I could be [TS]

  setting and stuff so I think you could use as a manager he didn't have an [TS]

  entire chicken to put in there is depicted in this is not as long as the [TS]

  super tall and was so there isn't that much you know I was not as a place like [TS]

  that member the one that the pro built in that you could get a bigger chicken [TS]

  so to categorize this I would say this is most similar to the big Breville [TS]

  which I've never tested by the way and so I assume it's ok because I have a [TS]

  small gravel and people have the big people say it's good but it seems [TS]

  similar in terms of it feels sturdy looks nice it does the job that supposed [TS]

  to do it has enough heating element the heat up that big interior and I guess if [TS]

  you only use it as another number climbed to I think the best things to [TS]

  recommend this the most are the things that I like most about my trouble [TS]

  I like seeing immediately when I press the start button how long it gonna take [TS]

  you know as soon as you put the pieces of toast they say how many pieces of [TS]

  toast and what level of darkness which is a number that you can pick 3456789 [TS]

  whatever darkness you like and when you press the start button and it will tell [TS]

  you they will start counting down from four minutes and 20 seconds or whatever [TS]

  and then you put in the second round bread of someone else wants to start [TS]

  counting down from three minutes and 30 seconds because the thing is heated up [TS]

  you know how long it's gonna take you get to see a countdown it's easy to [TS]

  adjust because they get it they get around the whole problem of trying to do [TS]

  the darkness just because it's a number on the screen really you just using a [TS]

  control to adjust the screen the screen really helps because then you can do [TS]

  countdown show where the numbers up there it's not like a full bitmap [TS]

  display it's you know a bunch of seven segment things among other things but it [TS]

  makes a big difference but not surprisingly useful kind of like that [TS]

  little bit more about that some of us have we're toast bread but actually it's [TS]

  pretty straight out of the freezer so on the same toasting you always want to get [TS]

  a little snowflake button and it was just a little bit more to get a [TS]

  difference it before it goes into the tow cycles so overall if you want to [TS]

  really big toaster and consider haven't tested the really big Breville this is [TS]

  the best really big coaster I've ever tried it is a solid quality product does [TS]

  all the jobs that supposed to do if you as they say if you have the space I can [TS]

  recommend it [TS]

  wow so if you have the means you highly suggest picking one up yet yeah I know [TS]

  it's it's it is a reference since since the last 19 I was making reference to a [TS]

  lot of people have asked about the three homes toaster abuse their number one [TS]

  pick was gonna tell you is that I did you a while back I was the Panasonic the [TS]

  really tall Panasonic 12 really really fast and people asking what do you think [TS]

  of their reviews they do actual product reviews not joke ad products are you [TS]

  think so [TS]

  go read their reviews they actually test them they put a million pieces of bread [TS]

  and all these things my criteria may be different than theirs but I'm not doing [TS]

  the kind testing that doing so please read a review of you really care about [TS]

  customers that said having used the one they picked as a top pick the reason I [TS]

  don't like it I think the UI's weird and I think it's oddly shaped but it does [TS]

  tell us things really fast and really efficiently and does a good job on them [TS]

  but for my purposes I want to be able to put [TS]

  four slices of bread in there are a whole tray full of English muffin pizzas [TS]

  or something and that it won't fit in the toaster is this not big enough and [TS]

  so it doesn't tell me that you eyes it's crazy with the membrane button and all [TS]

  the different functions that the Breville interface interface that is way [TS]

  better but that matters less than them in their rating mostly saying what when [TS]

  the bread comes out looking has it tastes and that goes there that [TS]

  Panasonic coaster toast bread really fast does a good job on it so I don't [TS]

  disagree or agree with their ratings I just know what I wanted to my toasters [TS]

  that's that's what this whole year we've had history views from the Guardian's [TS]

  humanity at this is the last one great adjust their idea fantastic idea we all [TS]

  had a great time and thanks a lot but please no more postings I never did test [TS]

  the top pick the top expensive pic like sweet home has like here's our top pick [TS]

  and they will try to take budget into consideration and they always have like [TS]

  if you have a little bit more money this one's even better if not better enough [TS]

  that we think it's worth it but it's a little bit better and I have not just [TS]

  about to get whatever that toasters I'm actually curious about it maybe if my [TS]

  thing ever dies by the way I didn't say what a couple of months ago this point I [TS]

  did finally opened up my brother and adjustable springs and a nice clothes [TS]

  rather which was a real pain man like I could I literally cannot figure out how [TS]

  to get this post or part without breaking it looked like he got to the [TS]

  spring without actually fully disassembling it but I think any one of [TS]

  those eye-opener things from iFixit like heats up some glue or something together [TS]

  but it is there a lot of screws in it is very solidly constructed so I was just [TS]

  lucky I can get through it to the point where I can get to the spring I just [TS]

  tension goodness how many mysteries reviews you sure you don't want anymore [TS]

  toasters no I just about I think I have like three or four left the ship out [TS]

  here and then place they're just too big to send you small object to review are [TS]

  you diamonds [TS]

  slightly included I see what you did there what are the five things in their [TS]

  forces rather we should probably talk about what went on this week can we talk [TS]

  about the headphone jack business really quickly blew it let's talk about this so [TS]

  so there are rumors based on a interesting translation from some [TS]

  japanese Finance Commission notes that the source of this is pretty unreliable [TS]

  I I think based on the rumor and based on some things that you know that here [TS]

  in there and then told here and there it it sure seems like this rumor has no [TS]

  more credibility than any other random [TS]

  you find with poor sources on the internet so the rumor itself has no [TS]

  credibility really but it is I think we're talking about would Apple do this [TS]

  and and what implications [TS]

  the rumor may not like this specific to the room like we think the iPhone seven [TS]

  which will be the next major iPhone Apple makes is going to have a teacher [TS]

  now you know whatever maybe it seems like that the sourcing flat is not great [TS]

  but we do know for a fact that you can plug compatible headphones into the [TS]

  lighting for under existing iPhones and they will work as headphones like that [TS]

  Apple has already added had phone support to the lighting port for iPhones [TS]

  and then you can buy you know by these things but you can put a link in the [TS]

  chain of headphones right now today that have at the end of them instead of the [TS]

  3.5 millimeter headphone jack have a lightning port and plug them into your [TS]

  existing iPhone it'll work fine and you have to think why would Apple do that if [TS]

  it's some point it was at least considering we're going to keep their [TS]

  headphones jack maybe we can have it all the time you know things again dinner [TS]

  maybe we should start thinking about where we're going to do it doesn't mean [TS]

  they're gonna make a phone without one ever even but they did do something that [TS]

  opens the door for this that's why people take these rumors vaguely [TS]

  seriously think before i'd like the last time for the iPhone 6 same rumors are [TS]

  out there because people were hearing about headphones support for the [TS]

  lightning port and lo and behold that actually exist as a thing and there [TS]

  right now so that's why I think this is worth entertaining because Apple would [TS]

  not both employment and ship something like that it hadn't considered very [TS]

  seriously the idea of teaching at some point in the future I mean so the idea [TS]

  headphone port first of all the rumors that they would get home port in order [TS]

  to make the iPhone a millimeter thinner and and this was this was covered pretty [TS]

  well this week's episode of the talk-show John Gruber in jon boats so I [TS]

  don't I don't want to go too far as they literally gave an hour to it is pretty [TS]

  good so but the short version is that you don't need to ditch the headphone [TS]

  jack to get that extra millimeter today because the current generation of iPod [TS]

  Touches still has the headphone jack and is at least that much thinner so it you [TS]

  don't need to do that now and you could and you could make other gains [TS]

  we're getting the point now where making the phone noticeably thinner will [TS]

  require dropping things that people tend to like in their phones like the [TS]

  headphone port and like good cameras so let's see what they do in that area [TS]

  maybe they can make different events will see but right now than this alone [TS]

  is probably not a good enough reason to yet I don't listen to that episode but [TS]

  they talk about the slim down 3.5 jack they didn't I wasn't DiNapoli change the [TS]

  way it was built and make a special one of the Apple patent which again [TS]

  amplicons everything at once I don't think it's basically like a regular [TS]

  headphone jack but with the one side filed down to be flat I just put the [TS]

  link in the shona and and there is by the way there is also so the the the [TS]

  headphone jack the most people think of as a 3.5 millimeter jack there's also a [TS]

  2.59 later version that has existed forever also just like all the other [TS]

  ones so there is a smaller version of the standard headphone jack that is [TS]

  occasionally used on things about a lot of headphones at the headphones they [TS]

  using the detail has a detachable cable there's a pretty decent chance at the [TS]

  end of the cable plugs into the ear cup might have that size plug on it a lot of [TS]

  them do so those plugs exist they could switch that Indianapolis two millimeter [TS]

  which is a pretty big deal at this scale than now [TS]

  grad again they don't need to be it although for the for the 2.51 I think [TS]

  one of the reasons that they would stay away from that is I know from having [TS]

  kids that it's possible to been 3.5 millimeter one doesn't kid around 2.5 on [TS]

  YouTube and even easier maybe maybe don't under this but it's getting kinda [TS]

  getting to the point where you don't want that one to be on the babies I [TS]

  think I think the 21 five-millimeter is easier to bend the light me and I don't [TS]

  know if any maybe this is just me but anyone who has kids who use their iOS [TS]

  devices like that they get to use all the time that are there is go to all of [TS]

  them and take the kids headphones plug them into the jack and then rotate them [TS]

  to see if they actually are still straight on access it seems like [TS]

  everyone in my kids touch not massively bent bent enough that you can see that [TS]

  seriously yeah just wait so anyway [TS]

  assume Apple does this what is that so assume they get rid of the headphone [TS]

  jack and the only way you can plug headphones [TS]

  you can use headphones with an iPhone is either over Bluetooth or through [TS]

  lightning so what does that mean in practice and I've heard I mean I don't [TS]

  have real job but I've heard a lot of people who have real jobs listen to [TS]

  music on their phones for a big chunk of the work day through headphones at work [TS]

  for whatever reason they either can't or don't want to use music services on the [TS]

  work computer itself to the plug into the phone and use like a streaming [TS]

  service or the music library on their phone to listen to music at work most of [TS]

  the time I would expect the phone to be plugged in [TS]

  during this process if you do this if you have it so that that jack has gone [TS]

  away chances are Apple would probably ship a little dongle for between twenty [TS]

  and forty dollars that would basically be a you a lightning to 3.5 millimeter [TS]

  headphone adapter and we see how they do these things [TS]

  chances are it would not have a let me pass through to also charge the phone [TS]

  chances of Serbia one plug thing one player on each end and that would be it [TS]

  similarly lightning headphones have the same problem relating headphones don't [TS]

  have a lightning fast report to also simultaneously charge the phone while [TS]

  you're listening to the headphones so chances are if they did this you could [TS]

  no longer listen to the phone while is being charged unless you have any wires [TS]

  completely and go to Bluetooth well I mean a million third party apps for it [TS]

  and by the way I see people listening to their phones that work and none of them [TS]

  have it plugged in so they just like it because it but the screen is often as [TS]

  playing audio even if maybe it's like Spotify and screaming stop its not that [TS]

  bad or maybe people just don't care if Apple didn't build it somebody would [TS]

  because it would be eminently buildup also I don't I don't think that would be [TS]

  a significant deterrent to doing this and I don't think it would preclude [TS]

  people from charging the phone while I was just making sure that they're also [TS]

  consider that the official Apple I always get the name of this wrong but [TS]

  the Lightning AV connector whatever it is that we talked about last episode of [TS]

  your favorite thing in the world [TS]

  yeah like my favorite thing the world this thing does have [TS]

  have a lightning pass through I actually think you're right Marco that it's [TS]

  unlikely that that's the approach Apple would take for this because I think it's [TS]

  far more likely that they would just they would assume that listening would [TS]

  not be all day long and that you wouldn't need to charges he listened but [TS]

  there is a precedent for them doing something with a lightning passed [TS]

  through the whole reason there's lightning passed through on this cable [TS]

  is so that you can charge your phone while you're displaying whatever your [TS]

  whatever you have on the phone on a TV or whatever so that is one thing that [TS]

  would be inconvenient or problematic for people if they did this all the main [TS]

  thing of course is that you can use your headphones even if they ship in adapter [TS]

  even if you don't need to charge to having to have an adapter is annoying [TS]

  that is the main inconveniences but what about all my headphones and I don't want [TS]

  to use an adapter and it's just not a nice or whatever and so that was the [TS]

  last time we have discussions with them in the rumors of lightning port [TS]

  headphone support for out there saying things like well I don't wanna not have [TS]

  all my headphones and you know that that's what everybody says anytime [TS]

  report it you know I don't want to lose all my charging cables I don't want to [TS]

  not be able to use all my talks on a change from thirty headphone port as [TS]

  many people went down on Twitter and elsewhere is way older than 30 pin [TS]

  connector and is not a terrible connector like it's fairly solid part [TS]

  you can't put it in the wrong way [TS]

  pretty sturdy it's been around by some estimates of being like ninety eighty [TS]

  ninety years depending on how you measure may be over a hundred forget it [TS]

  has minor problem of sorting itself out when you plug it in but you know other [TS]

  than that it's ok yeah I thought the best in the world but like with with all [TS]

  these things like the thing that came to mind to me is VGA ports VGA ports [TS]

  branded arm around since 1910 fine but there around for a long time and they [TS]

  had limitations there were obvious especially as we went from analog to [TS]

  digital video with DVI connections and HDMI and DisplayPort and stuff like that [TS]

  but we do I was like this video is a standard you want to come from Jake and [TS]

  actors and what eventually did VGA connectors in was not all the things I [TS]

  just listed which should have been obvious like are you can keep their [TS]

  video you gonna constantly convert analog this terrible and the resolution [TS]

  limit [TS]

  like we have a digital standards by which those what did we GNE did [TS]

  eventually everybody's laptops are too damn small to finish on the side that's [TS]

  what did this is just a mean you know you can still find a new delhi know they [TS]

  like they are like exactly the thickness of the VGA port I think even so with the [TS]

  tops and bottoms of the VGA port where basically there was no plastic above and [TS]

  below them they were just you know what I mean like it was there was no like [TS]

  thing to shove the VGA port into it was just like they were not cut out the VGA [TS]

  port was there so when you plugged in something the plug thing anyway that's [TS]

  what eventually did in VGA port certainly on the Mac and a lot of other [TS]

  slim laptops that are out there cuz if you want to release on that top the [TS]

  video big so that future is lurking out there probably in you know and possibly [TS]

  distant future but who knows [TS]

  for smartphones because eventually will be able to get smart phones than enough [TS]

  that the port will be thicker than the thing now we were there with with [TS]

  high-quality cameras as market lineup before that the phone is already thicker [TS]

  than the camera and we just make the camera broke out so who's to say you [TS]

  couldn't have a credit card in iPhone fifteen years from now and hanging off [TS]

  the edge of it the 3.5 inch thing you know I mean like it would be this big [TS]

  lump this big silly lump thing but it detract too much from the thinnest of [TS]

  the phone would still be in a situation where then if you drop your phone but [TS]

  flutter harmlessly to the ground then you would pick up the fact that it has a [TS]

  headphone port poking out of it wouldn't bother anybody I'm not sure the [TS]

  headphone port is raised the level where we're willing to say you know what [TS]

  even when our phone is the thickness of a credit card I'll be perfectly fine [TS]

  with there being a 3.5 inch headphone jack on there of course at that point [TS]

  lightning will also be too thick and thinking about this I think we can all [TS]

  agree I don't want to make this timescale argument that this man who you [TS]

  know you guys keep using the phrase business maybe an actual application of [TS]

  it because it's like look at part is going to go away eventually just is [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah the question is is this the year that it goes away in terms of timing say [TS]

  you were like the Grand Poobah like when ports go across the industry which Apple [TS]

  kind of it is because once they [TS]

  move everyone yells at them and says it's too big for doing it then does the [TS]

  same thing five years later or two years later a one year later he also floppy [TS]

  drives and getting rid of legacy portfolio pieces have been much slower [TS]

  about that is there to do it would you do it this year with 17 I mean when you [TS]

  decide that this is the year to do it or would you wait until you have to do it [TS]

  for some reason cuz I agree with Marco that you didn't have to do it for that [TS]

  reason but would you do it anyway to sort of say we want to get the paint [TS]

  over with now or would you wait until everything is USB see if I give up of [TS]

  lightning in six years I don't know you can look at this and you like to me [TS]

  there's so many downsides to do in this first of all I I think this would this [TS]

  would cause a substantial loss of goodwill that this would be a big deal [TS]

  you know look at how many people complain for so long and get so mad [TS]

  about the switch to lightning at all to have them all so basically make [TS]

  everyone's headphones obsolete or make them worse perhaps requiring some dongle [TS]

  to be plugged in this would be a really really big problem for their goodwill [TS]

  and customer satisfaction and for the presses impression the phone and what [TS]

  what everyday people while people end up thinking about is thinking about them [TS]

  how many iPhone buyers you think use headphones are the ones that come with [TS]

  the iPhone I mean you can look at beats as a pretty big example of that it's a [TS]

  pretty big number I mean I think that the market for aftermarket headphones is [TS]

  pretty healthy right now I very rarely see people using using the earbuds [TS]

  anymore I'm trying to think of what I see people using NI mostly see people [TS]

  using here but you're right that the big headphones the next the next thing I [TS]

  would say is if they're not you but what are they using I would say they're using [TS]

  something like beets were there will be there be to rip off so just large big [TS]

  big headphones like that but I don't know there are upsides to this for [TS]

  people who sell bonds obviously right because even the people who sell year [TS]

  but suddenly get to increase their margins because previously they were [TS]

  selling now hey you broke or lost your the things that they came with their [TS]

  Apple earbuds you you like your budget like this small you don't want big beat [TS]

  size things but you lost it broke them and you want to replace me [TS]

  on a paper apples by hours which are $3 cheaper than at both but our margins are [TS]

  used for good because these earbuds are pieces of crap and they have a lightning [TS]

  part on them so these are made for iPhone iPhone compatible earpods or [TS]

  whatever so right that this is a way for Apple to not only sell a very large [TS]

  number of high-volume dongles and accessories to add apple headphones but [TS]

  it's also a way now for Apple to through the MFI program to take a royalty on [TS]

  every headphones sold like that of course let me look you can look at this [TS]

  as you know the the various benefits of this might bring you can look at it as [TS]

  the various down for the my brain all-ages Bluetooth separately as a whole [TS]

  different story but you know if you're still staying wired I hate to be cynical [TS]

  about this but I think a realistic way to think about this is would today's [TS]

  Apple really today's Apple not what not the Apple that we want to exist but the [TS]

  actual Apple the does exist today would today's Apple make an already very thin [TS]

  device even thinner at the expense of usefulness in the real world and in a [TS]

  way that would increase the average selling price of their best selling [TS]

  product by designing it to basically require higher margin accessories at the [TS]

  expense of customer satisfaction and goodwill yes of course they would they [TS]

  do this all the time now but it depends on how much customers satisfaction and [TS]

  good well that's why when I if I keep thinking about this if I was in a [TS]

  meeting on this at Apple the first thing I would say is you for even discuss had [TS]

  fun things we have to decide if we're ever gonna go USBC [TS]

  stick with lining of a regulation has lightning on a ten year plan or is it [TS]

  not like or are we ever got because lightning and USBC are really similar to [TS]

  the to the point where like lighting was important for Apple to have because they [TS]

  had it for years before USBC came out right but the USBC is here now so how [TS]

  many more years do we give lightning are we committed to lightning is really on a [TS]

  ten year plan and we're not being considered alternative until ten years [TS]

  but you have to have that discussion first because it's not just the [TS]

  remainder of the head boat party it's Gary the head apart and the place where [TS]

  you plug it in is this like me and you really don't want to do a thing where we [TS]

  had lighting for a while [TS]

  then we get rid of the headphone port and all the headphones had been [TS]

  lightning and then a couple years after that we got rid of lightning I wanted to [TS]

  be USBC or some crap like that that is really bad and the long time line for [TS]

  customer satisfaction and you can only absorb certain number of these were [TS]

  getting rid of the floppy drive type of revolutions you can't you can't stop [TS]

  them that close together so I think you really have to plan something out and I [TS]

  think you should plan it because like I said it's going to go away eventually [TS]

  eventually get so then you can have a great choice is about bulges and crap [TS]

  like that and if anyone's going to get rid of it on their phones is probably [TS]

  gonna be out because that's their thing there was like you know they're they're [TS]

  more willing to get rid of it even even today's Apple that sells millions and [TS]

  millions of these iPhones they are the ones who are going to be more willing to [TS]

  get rid of this you just have to put it on the plan and i right now if if the [TS]

  plan is not to keep liking for a long long time now is not the time to get rid [TS]

  of 3.5 in sport if they do get rid of the Nigerian make an announcement so [TS]

  yeah we're getting her headphones and by the way our current plan to keep lying [TS]

  around for at least five or six more years so don't even think about USBC [TS]

  it's not gonna happen your investment in lighting headphones will last you [TS]

  several years many years don't feel too bad about it but they're not going to [TS]

  say that so it'll be sort of an unknown 52 money on right now I would say I [TS]

  would bet against not strongly against you know 51 49 percent advised but I [TS]

  would bet against the iPhone seven dropping that one part because I don't [TS]

  see a reason for it and I don't feel like now is the time exactly I really [TS]

  think they will reconsider letting sooner rather than later so I think they [TS]

  can hold out until they reconsider lightning in a couple of years and then [TS]

  they can get rid of the port is then they actually will probably needed [TS]

  thickness was but I do think they should do it before they definitely before they [TS]

  really need to the first time they do it on lobby because they just couldn't do [TS]

  it any other way you know because they were just whatever they want to set [TS]

  things up they want to take the hit when they were going to take a bit set things [TS]

  up and then and then by the time they really really need it it's already kinda [TS]

  like lightning like they have to go to lighting for the first phone that had [TS]

  their wages 30 pin on it it would technically it would have been may be [TS]

  awkward or whatever but it could have it but he didn't wait until the absolutely [TS]

  desperate [TS]

  they did lightning when it looks very small in the end of the phone and [TS]

  telephones it slowly shrinking down around it and I think that's what [TS]

  they'll do with the headphones replacement yeah I think you're right [TS]

  and i also I i think you know this is absolutely the kind of thing Apple would [TS]

  do all the downsides be damned they would definitely do it because it makes [TS]

  things dinner even though we don't need them to be but it makes things dinner [TS]

  and it makes them more money so they would absolutely do it but I don't think [TS]

  they're going to do this year I don't think they need to yet and I don't think [TS]

  it makes sense yeah I don't think it's gonna happen either but personally I [TS]

  wouldn't be that bothered by it I almost never use bluetooth headphones with my [TS]

  phone but I might be the only person on the planet that isn't particularly [TS]

  bothered by bluetooth headphones I use bluetooth headphones at work all day [TS]

  every day and they're connected to my Mac iPhone they are very cheap [TS]

  headphones I think they were $25 in the air when I bought them literally four [TS]

  years ago from the battery lasts at least today if not a couple of days the [TS]

  latency yeah if I hit pause it doesn't pause instantly but there's no latency [TS]

  when I watch videos there's none of the quarter I don't feel any of the crimes [TS]

  that so many people seem to feel they usually to that forms so if that means [TS]

  if if bluetooth is our future Bluetooth only as our future some silly dongle I [TS]

  don't think that such a terrible future I think the that Apple will get in this [TS]

  generated in their customers that but I don't think it's a terrible future we've [TS]

  been as Mac users which is different but as Mac users laptop users we've had [TS]

  stupid display dongles forever very overdone overjoyed that this new MacBook [TS]

  Pro that I have an HDMI port but generally speaking [TS]

  yeah we've had to use silly dongles all the time if yer one who uses most iPhone [TS]

  battery packs most of the ones I've ever seen [TS]

  there's something in the way the headphone port so if your headphone jack [TS]

  is any bigger than the headphone port like those the ones that I've bought [TS]

  always include a one or two inch little extension so you can clear the battery [TS]

  case and then plug in your headphones a little extension like none of these [TS]

  things are that terribly new [TS]

  again I just if bluetooth is our future I don't forget such a bad thing sorry [TS]

  mark oh well it's not it's kinda like the movies to watch it's like here is [TS]

  something else that is more expensive than what it might have replaced based [TS]

  on a lot of software and flaky standards so it's a little bit unreliable there's [TS]

  some lag involved in common actions and it's one more thing that needs to be [TS]

  charged and put on trade cycle and I i think we are you know we have so many of [TS]

  these things in the world and I i say this as a user of the phone and the [TS]

  watch and Bluetooth headphones most of the time when I'm using my phone for [TS]

  audio playback most of the time using bluetooth headphones to listen to [TS]

  podcast [TS]

  APX 210 bTW which are amazing headphones made anymore but the m400 axes baseless [TS]

  and think I love this adventure podcast but they're flaky they need to be [TS]

  charged it is kind of annoying so in many ways a step forward but like forced [TS]

  touch it's it's a step forward but also kind of a step sideways in this kind of [TS]

  worse in some ways more complicated you know if Apple released us a blue tooth [TS]

  head set of headphones that charges via lightning similar to the Apple pencil [TS]

  and charges really really fast [TS]

  the Lightning would that make it easier on all of us was gonna say regular [TS]

  people but it would make it easier on me to you know what that make it easier on [TS]

  all of us if you could get a couple hours worth of listening off of a five [TS]

  minute charge I mean it [TS]

  the charging is is one downside of many you know it's the unreliability the the [TS]

  extra battery powered the phone needs to send the signal [TS]

  makes the phone battery life whereas I mean there's there's a lot of little [TS]

  downside to the end and the reason I use it it because it is really convenient [TS]

  and these headphones sound like complete garbage and most Bluetooth headphones I [TS]

  have heard sound either mediocre to bad and I don't think a lot of people say oh [TS]

  a bluetooth is a bad sending protocol it is but most of these sound problems [TS]

  people have a bluetooth headphones or because the heavens themselves are [TS]

  mediocre like the drivers for the Dell design headphones mediocre they just [TS]

  sound bad because usually you can plug a man with a cable and you can hear the [TS]

  sound just as bad over cable but you know it's not all bad and I think [TS]

  ultimately enough people are going to be using bluetooth headphones often enough [TS]

  over time that when they do finally killed 3.5 inch jack which which I don't [TS]

  think it's anything but when they finally do it [TS]

  a big portion of people won't be affected at all because they were [TS]

  already moving the Bluetooth but we're not there yet and it isn't all good [TS]

  teams involving two of the different versions of the standards are you think [TS]

  eventually but I'm you know it in many more years it will still be Bluetooth [TS]

  but partly due to the name only and will maybe use different signaling and you [TS]

  know different frequencies and different you know [TS]

  compression strategies or whatever like that it will and hopefully this tax that [TS]

  they will be more reliable that will will have evolved to the point where [TS]

  threshold of flaking you know I think but it has been getting better so in [TS]

  terms of power consumption Bluetooth I'm getting better so doesn't drain your [TS]

  battery is much we got the Bluetooth 4.0 whatever things this all these ones that [TS]

  take less major and you from your phone and I soon take a little bit less energy [TS]

  for ear headphones or maybe they just passive receivers but anyway what I [TS]

  always think about is due to their butts because I hate having court date quartz [TS]

  getting tangled up and stuff you know it would just be much more convenient if I [TS]

  guess that my phone in my pocket and what I want is your butts because I [TS]

  don't think the podcast I don't care about your bugs in my years and then I [TS]

  would probably lose them so that they can maybe they could be a magnetic and [TS]

  stick to the bank on inductive charger not using them like that is the the [TS]

  wireless future but I think Apple ditch the headphone port before wireless [TS]

  standards [TS]

  are as good as we would all like them to be like I guess what is that threshold [TS]

  is it like wifi wifi wifi above the threshold of flakiness wifi is way more [TS]

  reliable and Bluetooth it still conflicted with some people that are [TS]

  maybe just you know I don't know what the obviously this signal strength where [TS]

  you're in so we require your house and you have played in your walls and you [TS]

  know tough luck but for places where you get good signal but you are losing life [TS]

  by that I'm here many stories about certainly doesn't happen on Mac so when [TS]

  it does like the two big deal now become the new version of OS 10 screws up wifi [TS]

  like we demanded to be reliable like if I can get a signal and I have enough [TS]

  bars I'm a little display I want that connection to stay up and if it doesn't [TS]

  something is terribly wrong out of class action lawsuit against it [TS]

  a Bluetooth you wouldn't even notice right through to the end and I said in [TS]

  my in my crappy car when I get in I just have to wait to see first off I don't [TS]

  have the source said to Bluetooth like the sources said something else [TS]

  Bluetooth doesn't even appear in the list of sources for a while so I have to [TS]

  listen to AM or FM or iPod or something else while I wait I can't turn the [TS]

  system off because that will not you know initiate the process of getting [TS]

  Bluetooth setup so I have to wait until Bluetooth appears the source and then [TS]

  selected because that's that's just your car and a Bluetooth this already [TS]

  selected table it is I haven't changed a selection I get in the car start the [TS]

  engine it's a long time before I hear anything coming out of their way anyway [TS]

  I don't know what he's doing is it booting up is it trying to find my phone [TS]

  usually it finds it may be 99% of the time it finds it after five or six [TS]

  seconds sometimes it doesn't find it and I have to go to like you know to all [TS]

  your devices and it's already chosen already being connected but going [TS]

  through that thing on the menu makes it can anyway like I said yeah bluetooth [TS]

  with his way to flaking now and it was messed up in some way I would never [TS]

  notice you say that but what do you use to ask you this most people however [TS]

  probably use a Bluetooth keyboard and/or Bluetooth pointing device for any sort [TS]

  of Mac that lives on a desk for any amount of time yes I know there's a crud [TS]

  load of Mac laptop [TS]

  I know that most people probably use the on-board pointing devices and keyboard [TS]

  but for those that have you know an iMac those are almost certainly going to be [TS]

  Bluetooth so they really hosed up a Bluetooth stack on the west and I think [TS]

  we'd know and I think we know it pretty quick but I've had this been the most [TS]

  reliable wireless accessories in our house that I found to be more reliable [TS]

  than the stuff like say the magic trackpad which I have now and mine on [TS]

  Magic Trackpad but also had and I all due to habitat with my iPad which does [TS]

  not in any way is the Logitech thing with the crazy little USB plug in ORF [TS]

  dongle thing not blew through the Twitter lot of texts proprietary thing [TS]

  is that silly proprietary thing the batteries last for ever and it always [TS]

  works and there are no drivers to install and so I always think Bluetooth [TS]

  why can't you be able to stabilize attack dongle but what is that they're [TS]

  doing is it shorter range that just because it's not that whenever the hell [TS]

  there's doing you do that because it always works it never doesn't work it is [TS]

  very frustrating I understand this probably take relation to get a protocol [TS]

  that can do stuff like audio and it's not just you know something about his [TS]

  actions but lie detector that when they were doing the product on psycho [TS]

  bluetooth is the next big thing you should really get on Bluetooth and I'm [TS]

  sure a lot of it does make Bluetooth mice but whoever said you know what no [TS]

  realistic with this stupid animals they were kind of right because those things [TS]

  always work I hate the stupid might be here again I don't mind Bluetooth if [TS]

  Apple does kill the headphone jack and the next iPhone or in a iPhone do they [TS]

  include some sort of dongle adapter II thing in the box or do they include some [TS]

  sort of like Bluetooth earbuds sort of thing I think they would include some [TS]

  sort of Bluetooth earbuds sort of thing but what do you think Marco I would say [TS]

  neither do you really think so he's the pessimist [TS]

  look this is today's Apple let's be realistic here this is this is away from [TS]

  them then from there making the 40 bucks on every sale there is no way that gets [TS]

  included in the box no way I say they would there's no way they include [TS]

  Bluetooth headphones his that is an upsell that is an optional accessories [TS]

  are you not getting bluetooth headphones eventually will become so pervasive that [TS]

  known as the concept of plugging in a mouse or keyboard or something [TS]

  eventually then maybe you put it in the first version no but I think they would [TS]

  include the adapter for the same reason that they felt bad included the MagSafe [TS]

  12 to adapt their in boxes for your products for a long time I think they [TS]

  would include the different five injured after because what the person that was a [TS]

  long time ago I know but for the first one I feel like they're gonna wanna do [TS]

  something to stem the tide of angry people who use headphones don't work [TS]

  anymore so I think and and because that adapter would probably be super cheap [TS]

  and passive they're put it in the box by now will probably go live long enough to [TS]

  find out this this one is not infinite time scale I would not bet heavily on my [TS]

  thing that they're going through the day after his right now that would totally [TS]

  be an apple thing to do but it's just such an easy thing to do to really help [TS]

  with the initial impact of the initial anger over breaking peoples headphones [TS]

  that it's so small and so cheap like the little MagSafe 122 it's the same [TS]

  situation like we're breaking peoples things in fact that but the MagSafe want [TS]

  to do that there was more expensive to manufacture than the Lightning to 3.5 [TS]

  would be so the more I think so [TS]

  so part of part of the rumor on this site was that it would the translation [TS]

  was kind of weird saying like it would be a special new lightning port that [TS]

  would allow passed through audio cassette thing is you can't just take [TS]

  the digital lightning signal and have a passive attached images move spins [TS]

  around and wires that and suddenly becomes an amplified analog signal that [TS]

  they first had one so the reports seem to suggest that what it would do and be [TS]

  that if you plug in these things we special new things in the special new [TS]

  portable devices that it would still be using the deck and amp in the phone but [TS]

  that it would it would be able to route those over the lightning port only in [TS]

  this new phone that would then allow a relatively passive device on to be the [TS]

  headphones out about you can't have you can't have an adapter if you don't do [TS]

  that well you could unless you have a chip in the adapter like this debate [TS]

  h264 [TS]

  thing with that with the processor in it [TS]

  yet no I think that's a that's alternative his alternative would be [TS]

  that the adapter and actually have a little USB DAC anything right in there [TS]

  which would which is totally possible but they would not do that because I [TS]

  mean just just think of the Lightning connector the chip in the things like [TS]

  this only so small you can make anything that involves the chips and then you got [TS]

  this big stiff than poking out of the bottom of your phone is not good like [TS]

  that is it does not gonna happen I don't think they will ever ship a product [TS]

  that's like right so it is also the in the third option here which is way more [TS]

  sensible and likely than then shipping adapters in the box [TS]

  the way more likely explanation here is that they would just they would wire [TS]

  that the port in that way so that lighting devices made in this lightning [TS]

  audio headphones made in this way would work only on the port on the new devices [TS]

  made for this they wouldn't care and they would just give a version of the [TS]

  earpods the ship now I just has a lightning flooding and include that in [TS]

  the box but of course that's a that's what they should the phone with the [TS]

  course but I think it would also come with the adapter for your old do you [TS]

  have a pair of Beats thats 3.5 you're going to get the thing that's going to [TS]

  come with plain old passive earpods with lightning connector and yes of course [TS]

  they're not gonna be Bluetooth and it'll also come I think with a little time [TS]

  passive adapter and that's the part I don't think they would do that these [TS]

  days [TS]

  know that they would charge at least 20 bucks marriage on about the USB 3 speeds [TS]

  on the iPad pro remember that yeah and they were one of the things that was [TS]

  like showing the internals of the port looks like and I think that tear down or [TS]

  something like two extra contacts for the lightning port and it was a sexual [TS]

  context to get the USB 3 speeds because USB 3 connector has more contacts then [TS]

  the lighting port has contacts that's why I talked about that the blog you [TS]

  don't need even though the usb3 thing has all the parts you need them lining [TS]

  because usb3 has dedicated port three centuries even USB two speeds and [TS]

  lightning wouldn't need that because it can repurpose the pins because like a [TS]

  dad part of whatever context for may be there for passive audio stuff or [TS]

  something like that like the idea that you can get [TS]

  that you can find a way to leave without changing the physical sort of shape and [TS]

  size of the lightning port find a way to make that passive adapter that you can [TS]

  just plug in 3.5 millimeter headphone jack into without a chip or any sort of [TS]

  Dec and there it's still just a fully analog coming out that something that [TS]

  could be done but it but again I don't know even that everything like really do [TS]

  want to this now or do you want to I don't know what the solution is that the [TS]

  long-term to make it then everything about USBC species not gonna head pain [TS]

  throughout body only time so maybe that's like the advantage of lightning [TS]

  real lightning will stick around for a long time because applicant do stuff [TS]

  like this without consulting anybody else and without worrying about why I [TS]

  wouldn't I wouldn't assume that lightning is going away in favor of you [TS]

  it's BC on on the devices have lining anytime soon in fact as we see Apple has [TS]

  used a 10-2 more devices you know the Apple could have made things like the [TS]

  smart trackpad and keyboard and everything they could have made those [TS]

  charge over USB see and they didn't they made in Treasury lightning [TS]

  those all those all the peripheral the in the the new input devices my new iMac [TS]

  the PC part of the Dragon if we allow but I'm USBC but yeah well they could [TS]

  have new cable but I I think the reason here is your Apple AAPL is very is [TS]

  perfectly fine support USBC [TS]

  to interface with peripherals from the rest of the world but they when it comes [TS]

  to their own devices and their own devices like the end of the pledge their [TS]

  support they're very happy to support learning because it is theirs and so [TS]

  that not only does it have more abilities and USB see that might be [TS]

  useful to Apple but again they're making less than one in each one of those [TS]

  things in their control in the the standard and everything that's [TS]

  everything Apple wants its control plus money plus smallness I mean that's the [TS]

  that's you know that is everything they want so they're not gonna be [TS]

  enlightening anytime soon I I think they would skip USBC entirely for the poor [TS]

  things like iPhones and because you know it's it's not really any smaller than [TS]

  lightning is it i mean it were not meaningfully so I'm guessing that the [TS]

  phone has lightning longer than USBC would be the thing it would move to I'm [TS]

  still I'm still hoping that my next to shape the Mac Pro will have a long [TS]

  the back of it ton of little parts look like USBC better late than about 30 I [TS]

  think I'm sad love that and I think that's most likely the case although [TS]

  unfortunately that pushes out like next June I think but I am nothing if not [TS]

  patient [TS]

  nice are such as much of this week is Warby Parker wordpress.com / ATP for [TS]

  excellent quality prescription eyeglasses at an amazing price so [TS]

  believes the prescription eyeglasses should not cost $300 or more they bypass [TS]

  the traditional channels and saw higher quality better-looking eyeglasses online [TS]

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  anti-reflective anti glare polycarbonate prescription lenses every pair comes at [TS]

  a very nice hard case and cleaning cloth you don't need to buy an overpriced [TS]

  accessories now buying glasses online something it would be risky how do you [TS]

  know whether that you had with the look good on you they have you covered there [TS]

  for this home training program now here's here's the site your browser and [TS]

  you pick five pairs of glasses risk-free Apple shipped to you for free you try [TS]

  them on in the comfort of your own home for five days then when you're done you [TS]

  could send him back with a prepaid return label there is no obligation to [TS]

  buy all that is free so go pick up 5% less if you picked just two or three [TS]

  a box of 25 for you and they're actually their their picture pretty good so you [TS]

  just you should just let them do that if you only see like two or three like let [TS]

  them pick it up to you'll see it worked out pretty well he tried to show you [TS]

  another if you live if you if you love somebody you look in the mirror you see [TS]

  how it looks on you right in your home [TS]

  five days and then you can send it back no obligation to buy all that is [TS]

  completely free and they also offer sunglasses I love sunglasses especially [TS]

  now in the winter when the angle of the Sun gets so low I have to be driving [TS]

  with sunglasses every single time and I love polarized sunglasses they offer [TS]

  these they're fantastic and I also believe in giving back to the world for [TS]

  every pair of glasses they selling in the pair of somebody in need through [TS]

  various vision charities around the world market icon / ATP and check out [TS]

  their great selection of premium quality affordable I we're gettin home track it [TS]

  today [TS]

  risk-free thank you very much to worry Parker for sponsoring our show so big [TS]

  actual confirmed legitimate news happened we were told the WDC that Swift [TS]

  would be open source by the end of the year and with not too much time to spare [TS]

  Swift has been open source I am genuinely impressed in the thing that [TS]

  impressed me most which I didn't realize at first was that the entire commit [TS]

  history as far as we can tell [TS]

  was was pushed to get hope it wasn't just the initial commit dance which is [TS]

  what most people do respond but I would've done if I was Apple but you can [TS]

  actually see the evolution of Swift overtime which is crazy to me I don't [TS]

  even know where to go from here but I feel like John after your copeland 2010 [TS]

  bit it let's start with you [TS]

  well the first thing i think is worth explaining what the hell does that mean [TS]

  open source with how do you open source of programming I was in a programming [TS]

  language just like you read a book and it tells you how language works like [TS]

  what are they open sourcing of course they're not you know it doesn't make [TS]

  precise language but they're open sourcing is a bunch of the things they [TS]

  used to implement the language so I'll p.m. and clang and those composer [TS]

  already open source but this quest compiler and the Swiss standard library [TS]

  and associated things written so that's what's being open source so there's a [TS]

  websites with dot org you can go to sort of the gateway for all the stuff today I [TS]

  was kind of sad to see that their flight was how is this what that are really [TS]

  really slow down you didn't get errors but just try to load anything else with [TS]

  that are gonna take forever to get back to you so that's kind of embarrassing [TS]

  and snarky comment I made was like maybe at this website open source project get [TS]

  some kind of wealthy corporate backer they can't afford better hosting this is [TS]

  like the British technology company in the world and that are slow today makes [TS]

  me sad anyway I will you know more about their network stuff in the future I'm [TS]

  sure really pushing it down the notes on the news but it is there [TS]

  and it's getting worse and it's simmering so I will complain about it at [TS]

  some point but stressed out or get you go look at the source code believes to [TS]

  get up which is the first exciting thing that you would say about this like get [TS]

  home premium Apple's not hosting on there you know open source that [TS]

  apple.com website where that was the darling source and that's exactly what [TS]

  he was talking about in the old days [TS]

  Apple has open source components and kept it going back for other Darwin the [TS]

  core OS that underneath us 10 and iOS has been open source from the beginning [TS]

  and what usually happens is able to come to some you know conference watc year in [TS]

  the old days macworld and announced a new version of the OS and then [TS]

  developers would develop for it and then they would ship that version of the OS [TS]

  two customers and then you would wait days weeks or months and then the open [TS]

  source version of the underlying projects like all here's the Darwin [TS]

  released for Mac OS 10 10.4 that would only be released as one big blob well [TS]

  after the OS was already out sometimes it would be the gap would be that small [TS]

  but the bottom line is you get OKC was a big dump like ok [TS]

  open source ID and see the source code and it just sits there until the next [TS]

  time out becomes along those floppy ears 10.4 plop here's 10.5 and they were to [TS]

  the point releases too but it's not like they're showing you here is the entire [TS]

  committee history of all the components of Darwin over their entire development [TS]

  you just get these these dumps and it wasn't as assayed developed in the open [TS]

  right so certainly as they're working you know 10.5 is plop down the site [TS]

  someone somewhere in Apple's working at 10.6 you don't get to see that work to [TS]

  the open source components you're not going to see any part of 10.6 until 10.6 [TS]

  out and then the show here by the way here's the open source parts of 10.6 [TS]

  plop WebKit was a little bit different in that you could see what was going on [TS]

  you know wasn't strictly an Apple product was developed kind of out in the [TS]

  open but they would do the same thing with it would be like internally Apple [TS]

  is working on it [TS]

  its next version of Safari with a new version of WebKit but they're not doing [TS]

  that work out in the open at some point they're gonna plop down to a big commit [TS]

  to the latest version of WebKit and that's been getting better with WebKit [TS]

  but Swift is even more towards the actual model the people do with open [TS]

  source projects in terms of here the whole history of the entire project from [TS]

  the beginning all the committees have accounts and get hopes you can see all [TS]

  the you know their names attached to them and literally 2010 is it the first [TS]

  commit and just go through the history of the entire set programming language [TS]

  and see who did what and look at the commit history and who did it would [TS]

  contribute the most code when the fun things you can go to a chart in and get [TS]

  up and say like the graphs and stuff where you basically see it either the [TS]

  hire date or the disclosure date of ever working on so effed beginning it's just [TS]

  you know latter is doing everything is the only one who knows anything about it [TS]

  right and that is certain point second person and a third person than a fourth [TS]

  person and if it's not there hire date you know the time before is probably [TS]

  when they didn't know the project existed never disclosed on its like out [TS]

  now see you know so it's like revealing the history of the thing and they're [TS]

  continuing to work on it in the open so much so that there's a road map on the [TS]

  site to say hey we're going to do with 2.2 and we're going to a 3.90 and here's [TS]

  what's planned for in here the proposals and hear the tech industry leading up to [TS]

  it so this is totally normal from the perspective of any regular open source [TS]

  project like Apache or Python or whatever but it is extremely novel in [TS]

  terms of core technologies in Apple to be actually realized developed with a [TS]

  public bug tracker where you're seeing future development happening in real [TS]

  time they're doing things that are not yet released any Apple product you're [TS]

  seeing them do them and you can file bugs against them and stop and you can [TS]

  see it is for long-suffering Apple technology enthusiast a breath of fresh [TS]

  air [TS]

  it's really surprising and in the last couple of weeks [TS]

  Apple as a whole has been getting a lot of flack about the Mac App Store and [TS]

  potentially their plans for iPhone hardware and have you guys heard [TS]

  anything about this headphone thing or not but but this is really this is [TS]

  really impressive in this is very on Apple like and it was funny because [TS]

  earlier today I was listening to [TS]

  material which the Pakistan relay about Google stopped and they had their you [TS]

  know Google's VP of design whose name I will try to pronounce yes they think you [TS]

  they had him on their podcast granted Schiller did go on the talk show but you [TS]

  don't typically hear these sorts of things happening with Apple in this is a [TS]

  very open way of doing open source which is just really impressive market been [TS]

  quite so far what do you think I'm really happy to see this and then you as [TS]

  as much as I do complain about things that Apple doesn't do well and does and [TS]

  does that are hostile to to either customers are developers in reality this [TS]

  is a really big move this is a good move and this is this is way more open about [TS]

  this stuff than they than I expected for sure way more open than they really [TS]

  probably needs to be and there's a number of things about this is gonna get [TS]

  to wear like when they first denounced that was due Dec when they first [TS]

  announced it will be open sourced and and I thought we talked about it you [TS]

  know back then and and I said basically that I was reserving any kind of [TS]

  enthusiasm about this because I thought was gonna be more like how drama same [TS]

  right they don't open source in the past we're just kind of these these dumps and [TS]

  that useful for the most part and I also was concerned about I would absolutely [TS]

  love to only master one new language now to be to cover both my my app [TS]

  development and my web development because I don't want no development that [TS]

  much I'm not that into it I do web development as as a just a means to an [TS]

  end to make the absurd I wanna make and I have been doing it in PHP for all [TS]

  these years and I just now saw a little bit ago but not writing all absent good [TS]

  just like making a few components go that the big PHP abuses and I like a [TS]

  decent amount but I don't think I liked it enough to build a whole new web app [TS]

  in order to port the hold up I had to I don't I don't plan to do that and swift [TS]

  is not my perfect ideal language but it's pretty good looks pretty good [TS]

  and i know im gonna have to learn it and I want to keep being an Apple platform [TS]

  developer for ten years from now I'm going to have to learn swift and I'm [TS]

  going to do it some point and so it would be nice if I could just learn [TS]

  swift and have that also work on the web for my future web needs and then I can [TS]

  finally stop using PHP and start a new Swift everywhere I really get a nice [TS]

  deep mastering of this one language and and be able to share code between them [TS]

  share my own utility libraries etcetera its share application level could be [TS]

  some of the data layer stuff I would love that that didn't like it was gonna [TS]

  happen before because I was assuming that the open sourcing of Swift would be [TS]

  you know similar to to the old way just dumping things and and they didn't say [TS]

  anything about open sourcing foundation or any of the API's and so we we all [TS]

  mess up and threw just assumed that the only part that would be open source [TS]

  should be the core of a language with the handful of built-in types it has [TS]

  their be effectively no libraries and that wouldn't be very useful [TS]

  will be able to step in to try to make their own standard libraries and try to [TS]

  get themselves established as these dinner library and we're gonna mess like [TS]

  JavaScript frameworks on this but what has actually happened there outlining a [TS]

  plan to actually convert foundation to swift and open source it included in [TS]

  this in this package so and I'm sure you know not every API is gonna be available [TS]

  in this open source way but what this does is this gives people a way to [TS]

  actually build say a web app that runs a web app back into that runs and swift on [TS]

  a Linux server and also runs on iOS where they could actually share a [TS]

  meaningful amount of underlying code and libraries and that is really cool that I [TS]

  was not expecting at all and I'm really happy to see that cuz now that makes us [TS]

  interesting that makes this beyond just like an academic curiosity of around me [TS]

  get you know Darwin running on Linux server know this is like actually [TS]

  potentially useful in the real world and no thats a Darwin you know like we knew [TS]

  they were going to Linux though [TS]

  announced that it every year you see right we knew they would do Linux but we [TS]

  didn't know that there be a library's beyond the built-in swift types right [TS]

  well so that when they said they were going to like that was the other you [TS]

  know in between the slides and they said they were gonna open source in this live [TS]

  when they put the world on the screen [TS]

  what I was thinking was a reasonable fear is like no matter what you do with [TS]

  open source and that's well and good but they're gonna open source basically [TS]

  swift so you can run it on IMAX 10 because there are always those ties [TS]

  those things like oh well if you have a Mac you can do it but it's going to be [TS]

  using the service nobody is a snack servers so it's a shame that even those [TS]

  of us will be open source it's going to be up to the community to figure out how [TS]

  the hell to get it to work on Linux and two slides later it's like a Linux [TS]

  Apple's doing that part why would Apple to that Park well Apple has service to [TS]

  write and they're probably not running at least at this point gotta help them [TS]

  they have server side stuff and why would Apple wastes time doing a Linux [TS]

  port and believe me they would not do it at the goodness of their hardness ac3 [TS]

  portable look we didn't expire right they're doing it and doing it for [TS]

  themselves and they eventually basically have the same needs Marco it is like [TS]

  it's great to meet you run swift the server but we want to share any [TS]

  significant amount of code between our client in are certainly great to at [TS]

  least a foundation like me and they would be nice I suppose they could just [TS]

  bring the Objective C runtime 22 Linux as well if it's not already there but [TS]

  with a church chose to do instead which is i think is the most exciting thing I [TS]

  knew that have something like this to be able to run a nice because why the hell [TS]

  else would I will be the Apple wants to use at the same time are going to use it [TS]

  for only on a much larger scale right but what they did was take the hard [TS]

  Rovers like we're not gonna use the Objective C runtime on Linux and let you [TS]

  use Linux with foundation on Linux you know CoreFoundation in C and foundation [TS]

  in Objective C and I could have done that and it would have worked line [TS]

  instead there they have not done this yet but they're undertaking effort to [TS]

  port foundation just left and they're doing it you know you can look at the [TS]

  source repository and see like all the MPI implementations word like not yet [TS]

  implemented but the you know the function is there this is one of the [TS]

  products they're doing and I don't know what kind of schedule it's on me maybe [TS]

  they were saying but like 3.0 they would have the whole thing ported to whatever [TS]

  so it's still going to confound asian street see underneath the covers that [TS]

  was already portable for the most part of a nationwide or whatever had been [TS]

  open source and then on top of that they're gonna go from from that point [TS]

  swift all the way up so anything that used to be in foundation was objective [TS]

  see their reinventing in swift still a little bit confused about how they're [TS]

  gonna do with string vs NSString and by the way that the exciting thing about [TS]

  this [TS]

  their founding dropping the NSP fix foundations that they're taking this [TS]

  opportunity this recommendation and swift to drop all the NSE's which for [TS]

  people who don't know how goes it was Google this earlier to see when the [TS]

  address was added because it believed was added at some point in the next but [TS]

  honest answer next step and so these new Mac developers have no idea what the [TS]

  next is programming this for months and going through tutorials I'm never going [TS]

  to make any sense I get very hot that means next step but it's only fair to be [TS]

  there and now the perfect opportunity to remove it so then how the hell do you [TS]

  distinguish between swift that string and formerly NSString which I guess we [TS]

  just become string I mean you can understand your name spacing like they [TS]

  would be distinguishable but I know they're like you know bridge to each [TS]

  other like 20 cause bridge you know rain and a serrated behind the scenes stuff [TS]

  but it's potentially confusing so I can I using pierced with with strings are [TS]

  made using swift with foundation in swift with swift used to be any strings [TS]

  that are actually strings anyway I'm sure that working out but the bottom [TS]

  line is there clearly not taking the easy road here they're leaving the [TS]

  Objective C runtime behind brazilian lines of code and that will be [TS]

  maintained that enhance for the future obviously but the foundation literally [TS]

  the foundation of their their programming language stack is going to [TS]

  be written and swept the SI core foundation and then it's gonna be swift [TS]

  foundation and then switch standard library in all this messed up on puppet [TS]

  so this is very exciting and it's exciting not only do they saying they're [TS]

  doing this is done yet this is nothing like [TS]

  the old Apple would not even announced that they're doing this until the next [TS]

  WTC they're telling you that they're doing it even though it's not done you [TS]

  can see how far they've got it and like I said they tell you what this is going [TS]

  to be quick to point to the tell you can three-point know they have a system [TS]

  whereby you can propose things to be in swift 3.1 or 4.0 and get accepted [TS]

  incorporated you can submit patches and everything its actual open source [TS]

  development yeah it's really cool and this makes me interested in learning the [TS]

  language at some point soon I'm starting to jump on it like today or next week [TS]

  don't don't don't spend too much time learning the plus + and minus minus [TS]

  operate yeah but end and one thing that I probably will wait for his is that [TS]

  they mentioned that they are not talking about like that the goals for the big [TS]

  3.0 release that will be in late 2016 which is in a year from now but they say [TS]

  they're not going to address concurrency primitives and Larry and concurrency [TS]

  built-ins and language until after three point I think I do wanna wait to really [TS]

  master the language until the concurrency stories worked out and [TS]

  that's pretty important you have an excuse to a nice thing to really master [TS]

  I didn't settle to start learning how to restore using it but I i do want to see [TS]

  how it shakes out because that's kind of important in the modern environment i [TS]

  mean that's you know that's why go is going to be better for your server-side [TS]

  things goes already like you using this features and go and they really handy [TS]

  and what they're saying is for now this is a LibraryThing usually dispatch right [TS]

  now it's not terrible you're already familiar with it from using it is [TS]

  available in its open source itself right yeah I mean there was this thing [TS]

  for now before we address in the language libraries are the answers to [TS]

  use P threads usually dispatches whatever the hell you want to use it the [TS]

  library problem not a language problem but go go decided that it's important [TS]

  not to be part of the language to make stuff easier so it's gonna be there when [TS]

  you mention like oh you know right like riding a server-side web framework [TS]

  equivalent to your PHP one or even equivalent to the simple service you [TS]

  doing and go there's a lot of library work that if Apple has done it we're not [TS]

  seeing it yet and so it's up to the community to actually do that [TS]

  yeah so an under the radar number to you and underscore talked about basically [TS]

  need we'll get there when we get there and now it sounds like your kind of [TS]

  rethinking what makes it open source make it so much more appealing to you [TS]

  because you're not you're not about to be contributing to pull requests or [TS]

  anything like that so why don't know so why does it being open source suddenly [TS]

  change your opinion because now now mastering swift now has more value to me [TS]

  because now there's a chance I can use it on the server side as well and and [TS]

  there's there's now a roadmap insight where that is looking likely and [TS]

  plausible and and potentially very good so that's a big reason now it isn't just [TS]

  00 just learn how to do everything I've already been doing the same platform [TS]

  with no possible other impact besides just you know that the language of [TS]

  building benefit which I don't care that strongly about yet now it's also you [TS]

  know I I need to learn a better website language I really do I am constantly [TS]

  hitting PHD's limits and I'm constantly running into problems with it whenever I [TS]

  do new development and it's not that I you know it's not the you know PHP is [TS]

  constantly pressuring but it seems on shaky ground that you have expressed [TS]

  before that I I just don't see why why I like that that I don't really believe [TS]

  that that is leadership is taking it in good directions [TS]

  has but you know it starts to affect me anyway so i i i want to get off PHP is [TS]

  sooner rather than later but I also don't think is the answer [TS]

  necessarily like it's it's good enough for now but I'm still looking for a [TS]

  better overall web language to switch to I don't think it's gonna be I don't [TS]

  think there's going to be it for this to potentially step in that role then this [TS]

  gives me a really big reason to learn swift not to mention the code sharing [TS]

  benefits you know if I can have if I can have like the model layers shared [TS]

  between like say overcast and its Web Component stuff there's a lot of [TS]

  benefits to having that kind of code sharing potential [TS]

  and III even simple things like right now the main reason why the overcast web [TS]

  interface does not have playlists is because I don't want to have to put the [TS]

  code that the playlist used to order themselves which is a very complicated [TS]

  piece of your C code I don't report that to PHP because I'm I it's going to be a [TS]

  massive amount of work to get a right answer to be buggy I don't want it's not [TS]

  worth it if there's there's opportunities like that were like if I [TS]

  could say the same thing on both sides that would that would be much more [TS]

  easily solve problem so you know I'm looking forward to to a future where I [TS]

  can just master one that's my style my style is not to learn 16 different [TS]

  languages and and to have a shallow person each of them might my style is to [TS]

  really master one thing and use it for ever use it until after making fun of me [TS]

  for using it and then finally switch so that's why that's how it got me here and [TS]

  I think I would love for swift to be the next language to do that with and this [TS]

  now showed me that that has a good chance of being possible as you make [TS]

  your own web remarking swift because there won't be one [TS]

  well it probably will be one pretty soon but yeah there if they are there already [TS]

  a couple but I know right now based on the new foundation based on all the new [TS]

  stuff like that that wasn't part of Apple's App Store stop by the way here's [TS]

  what we're using our services with because Apple surely using several sites [TS]

  where and how they're incorporating and I'm not sure but there is no equivalent [TS]

  to you know whatever your favorite web even equivalent I don't think there's [TS]

  even a simple server port listening stuff that's in the gold standard [TS]

  libraries is there no that's what I mean is is this is the networking stuff [TS]

  you've imported yet just never were you want some of that you need something [TS]

  like over teens are an event driven luper you need something to handle you [TS]

  know process [TS]

  request there once you know there's there's an opportunity for people who [TS]

  want to do something potentially you know dramatic and something that has a [TS]

  big footprint of affect the first person to make a really good web framework in [TS]

  suicide swift will have the attention of everybody who's in the same situation as [TS]

  Marco just got an iOS app and I would love to be able to share the faceless [TS]

  components between the server and the client I don't wanna have to think about [TS]

  all the crap about running after listening to depart dispatching based on [TS]

  URL since I want a fairly simple but reliable fast framework to do that for [TS]

  me if someone makes one I would use it cuz you just want to plug in your model [TS]

  code you don't want to deal with like request routing and parsing HTTP headers [TS]

  and crap like that you know you ideally that's that should all be handled by any [TS]

  modern framework like I there's no there's no reason for doing that stuff [TS]

  manually anymore I mean and standard library handle it and go as their [TS]

  library functions and things like that but stressed that the gap and so far [TS]

  more points it would probably continue this topic and future shows when i doing [TS]

  but and the topic of Apple being more open craig Venter et who like the head [TS]

  of all software and Apple at a notice title is he is making the rounds of the [TS]

  websites is interviewed at Ars Technica I think he talked to the next Weber a [TS]

  bunch of other websites I read reviews where craig Venter you talked to a bunch [TS]

  of websites about this with open source project when has that happened it [TS]

  definitely in new Apple thing like that they send out one of their guys to make [TS]

  the rounds of the relatively speaking [TS]

  you know dinky little websites I can you know you'd see Steve Jobs go on CNN or [TS]

  something and talk to the Wall Street Journal and The New York Times but [TS]

  that's it but now he is talking to the second tier websites in the tech press [TS]

  yeah CNN doesn't want to hear about open source with basically but no this is [TS]

  this great yeah I think this is a great meeting you know he's going to be saying [TS]

  the same things every different website or whatever but but it is I don't know [TS]

  it just makes you feel better the like ya see what you can do apple just like [TS]

  regular PR in some ways Apple was I was also named as interesting and special [TS]

  because they did [TS]

  regular PR like every other company anything they do they think is in [TS]

  remotely important like a proud though child see what I made see looked like [TS]

  this [TS]

  refrigerator right and Apple would just be like we say nothing we talk to you at [TS]

  this number of times a year [TS]

  everything else we do maybe the press release on our site and I talked to you [TS]

  just reblog our press release like or don't we don't care like whatever but [TS]

  now they're actually saying hey we've got Craig here you wanna talk to me want [TS]

  to talk to you about open source with like to to the tech websites and so [TS]

  that's just weird and I think that the weather's don't even know how to handle [TS]

  it like a lot of these websites are not accustomed to interviewing and executive [TS]

  and then writing an article based on that interview with Apple executives [TS]

  because it's like so do I just transcribe exactly what they said even [TS]

  though their sentence doesn't quite make sense or do I cleaned up a little bit [TS]

  but then will they be afraid I misquoting them and it seems like [TS]

  awkward it's like I didn't think you'd actually show up is this really you I [TS]

  guess [TS]

  guess [TS]

  he'd like let's talk about swift 45 minutes and then I'll write something [TS]

  about this is totally weird so it definitely it definitely feels weird I [TS]

  mean it would be weird it was you know Chris Lattner talking to everybody but [TS]

  hurry to make sense is that a loss of her department and he's gonna tell you [TS]

  why Apple is open soaring swift and that's a good idea so put a link to the [TS]

  article but you can see a bunch of other things around and this is definitely a [TS]

  must I guess is the appropriate Cold War metaphor for this so I thought that was [TS]

  exciting and I hope to see more of that like you know do it every time every [TS]

  single thing to do but we're sorry the signal to send out an emissary [TS]

  essentially are found sponsor tonight is Harry's go to Harry's dot com use promo [TS]

  code ATPs a $5 off your first purchase harry's offers high-quality razors and [TS]

  blades refresh of the press the big reason brands these are high quality [TS]

  high performing German blades crafted by shaving experts to give you a better [TS]

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  pricing at a fraction of the Big Branch prices they're about half the price plus [TS]

  you don't wait around for some guy to open up the keys in the drugstore [TS]

  anything they ship them directly to your door from a nice easy to use beautiful [TS]

  website the great customer service if you ever needed a starter set is an [TS]

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  cartridges when you more blades for just $2 each or less an eight pack is just [TS]

  $15 a 16 pack is $25 now I have been a huge shaving her before I have use the [TS]

  double-edge safety razors from Federer and everything and all have to Fusion [TS]

  ProGlide I really do think that Harry's is the best value in the shaving [TS]

  business bar none [TS]

  it is so cheap that if you want to use a brand new cartridge every time you shave [TS]

  that's not unreasonable this is the holy grail everybody was wants to use a brand [TS]

  new blade every time and really this is this is ridiculous for most of shaving [TS]

  history because they were just so expensive and now they're not so areas [TS]

  is really making dreams come true with this so I really do like them a lot [TS]

  there are great value great quality and their their design is really classy the [TS]

  handles ugly greater nicely weighted dice and heavy hand [TS]

  wills classic designs you don't look like you're in some kind of Transformers [TS]

  commercial or anything it looks great now with Harry's you think you've been [TS]

  ordering online high-quality blades a great handling shaving cream and [TS]

  excellent customer service and half the price of the big brands gets her today [TS]

  with a handle three blades and cream for just $15 including free shipping to your [TS]

  door [TS]

  go to Harry's dot com and you can use promo code ATP to save $5 off your first [TS]

  purchase thanks love to hear his response on our show you don't have one [TS]

  more thing to add about quest for this show we're going to talk more about open [TS]

  source with an ex I'm sure cuz we just put a dividing line the notes about it [TS]

  with one thing we forgot to mention is what licenses this one open source [TS]

  licenses and it is the Apache 2.0 License with a special exception to not [TS]

  require you to open source stuff that you build into like a single library or [TS]

  something that happens to start to pull in some of the swift flight runtime that [TS]

  saying that you don't have to open source that when it's ok that you know [TS]

  by and with the swift standard library whatever doesn't mean that you have to [TS]

  something open source for all applications so it's a very permissive [TS]

  license its not ppl because both commercial company and they would never [TS]

  do DPL because it is intentionally viral and Apple doesn't like the virality of [TS]

  that particular of the constraints and forced by the GPL so I think for the [TS]

  most part no one is surprised by the license and for the most part the [TS]

  expected to be happy about an expected people are unhappy about it there is a [TS]

  fun this is actually the Commission briefly is it a thing with a lot of open [TS]

  source projects where where you put the source code is it necessarily the same [TS]

  place where you want people to file a bug so get up like many places that you [TS]

  can put source code for also has what they called issue tracker which is [TS]

  basically a bug tracker but Apple of course has its own boat recalled radar [TS]

  and swift does not use the issue tracker on github it has its own website like [TS]

  bugs that's without org and I think that's where they want you to file the [TS]

  bugs unless they want you to follow our radar it's a little bit confusing and it [TS]

  starts with argan eventually be led to the right place but the bottom line is [TS]

  on github you can't I think at issues but you can issue pull request someone [TS]

  immediately made upon request to change the license like GPL or something [TS]

  a million people told the thread with animated gifs and stuff so I will put [TS]

  that one commissioned as well as well so you can enjoy looking at that the first [TS]

  strolling pull request I get help for swift and of course this License which [TS]

  far as I'm concerned I don't care about I think that the caller ID license their [TS]

  percent it's fine but other people do care about it and so there you have it [TS]

  any other thoughts before next week we're just gonna say we're just gonna [TS]

  hold ya gonna hold more more to talk about him I probably got more in depth [TS]

  in the same topics for geeks and hopefully by next week we'll know more [TS]

  about this because this week [TS]

  record this we only have something like four hours we'll see what happens [TS]

  alright overall good week we still have a headphone jack and swift had a lot of [TS]

  good stuff so I'm happy thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week [TS]

  areas were Parker and cards against humanity and we will see you next week [TS]

  or hear you next week or speech just keep saying that the same way you always [TS]

  been saying it works fine you will hear us next week not this terrible what to [TS]

  say and we will see you next week you had a thing you think people need [TS]

  repetition of familiar phrases and beats in the story structure that is our [TS]

  podcast to feel at home don't mess with it and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin accidental john Kasay [TS]

  death and you can be there and a team Marco [TS]

  I don't ask much I cause I don't use Dropbox and don't really use my car [TS]

  driving a lot of people do like you know what I could drive is probably OK the [TS]

  tropics works for me I just keep using it but in other aspects I want to trust [TS]

  I club like when the new notes came out and it changed the backend for my mouth [TS]

  I kept thinking I was glad and I started using it and [TS]

  and the most part it's been working and so my daughter has been writing to write [TS]

  stories and she started wanting to write one by typing instead of their riding on [TS]

  nope it's both but she also want to have won this year's typing and I want to set [TS]

  her up there okay here you go you can type something and I think this is a [TS]

  perfect opportunity to use pages [TS]

  the latest version of pages she also got it on her iPad with the latest version [TS]

  of the original pages she just wants the type of stories just words on a page not [TS]

  very demanding and it would be nice if she could do it in both places right you [TS]

  know pages is integrated with iCloud and you make a document and she could type [TS]

  on the computer and then she's in her room with the iPad she could continue [TS]

  typing on the iPad seem like the ideal opportunity and new page layout I'm not [TS]

  doing anything fancy here could have maybe use text ended its amenities pages [TS]

  and have integration and vaguely everything that I work website even [TS]

  gonna retire so I set up these pages and she's typing a long and typing on and [TS]

  then I realized she had received no monetary sure about saving which said [TS]

  the first time to show your kids about saving kids are saving what are you even [TS]

  talking about like it's such an alien concept doesn't make any sense like this [TS]

  is a thing you have to do why do you have to just go through the whole thing [TS]

  and I said she doesn't I didn't go into the open saved I just like look I bring [TS]

  it to the right place I'm so it's safe to say you have to do by heading to [TS]

  Manchester liking this command every once in a while but to initially start [TS]

  will give the thing a name and I will put it in iCloud drive right but when [TS]

  will you know I picked up a lot better now she says and she's typing on that [TS]

  works fine for like a day or two then at some point I said you know like I think [TS]

  you need to get kicked off the computer kicked out of something like what you [TS]

  can continue writing this on your iPad and she's not surprised about or [TS]

  impressed by the way she was like alright fine and then I loading pages up [TS]

  on her iPad tried to open the document that she had just been editing on Mac [TS]

  and it wouldn't open and so what is it simply it looks like the document is [TS]

  being modified or something like it complained cuz I still have it open on [TS]

  the Mac that's messed up but fine whatever I'll close it on the Mac and [TS]

  open and on the iPad and eventually open the iPad and you start typing stuff and [TS]

  of course there's no you know like saving action going on there and then [TS]

  which was done with that included it was gone and then she came back to the Mac [TS]

  and said I want to the american now and we went to open pages and open the [TS]

  document and it gives $1 boxes like this document can be open right now I think [TS]

  it's also because it's being modified from those with health message bottom [TS]

  line was you couldn't open double clicking it didn't work opening it from [TS]

  the application didn't work then I tried to open the iPad also wouldn't open on [TS]

  the iPad I'm not asking the world view this is Apple hardware Apple software [TS]

  latest version latest version of application latest version of the OS I [TS]

  just wanted the same document in two different places and now i cant open to [TS]

  anywhere and my daughter is upset justifiably so because previously [TS]

  everything was fine I was riding on my Mac and because dad wanted to say even [TS]

  though you can write on your iPad now i cant open in anywhere and maybe it's [TS]

  gone and so I have to fix this problem by figuring out what the deal is like I [TS]

  tried everything you can imagine eventually I tried copying the documents [TS]

  out of the iCloud thing and like opening it and pulling out the tax thing copying [TS]

  and pasting into new text document and i said i call someone try Club Dr screw [TS]

  this I'm putting it in Dropbox so I could drive was cut out of the equation [TS]

  I put them in Dropbox now I'm terrified to even try to open it on the iPad [TS]

  because that may and opposing think I thought I was in the clear I might say [TS]

  the new Dropbox she doesn't know where it saves about $7 said I told you can't [TS]

  use on the iPad in a market that doesn't work that crap doesn't work and I had to [TS]

  move out of my car driver loses a total failure of the most simple thing you can [TS]

  possibly do a single person having a single document in iCloud drive on you [TS]

  know everything perfect and just just abject total failure like not even that [TS]

  didn't work it didn't sink or whatever just you could you could open document [TS]

  it all then she decided to write a new story and so I should have to make a new [TS]

  document [TS]

  and she was typing for a while and I came in and once again she had not saved [TS]

  for you know twenty minutes and is that all you have to say that right and I [TS]

  want to say it and it you know I'm saving in Dropbox now instead of a drive [TS]

  so it's a if you ask me for filename has never been given a name before I type in [TS]

  a name for it hit the Save button says untitled cannot be read [TS]

  popping back didn't save a try-saving end I say that as you know saving in a [TS]

  different location not in Dropbox unrealistic says untitled cannot be read [TS]

  group send him back to document I'm like are you serious now I made a new [TS]

  document I can't even save it to the local filesystem this is just the [TS]

  brokenness thing I've ever seen in my life like seriously you know me I E max [TS]

  I just wanna make a text document and save it to the local disk I don't know [TS]

  what was wrong at this point I don't even care like I feel like burning pages [TS]

  to the ground and just never looking at it again I don't know what the problem [TS]

  is like it because the new document was automatically made an iCloud and [TS]

  something opposed by the way the ghost of the old document that was an iCloud [TS]

  is still there at like this half packaging that I can't do it because the [TS]

  37 in the Finder some crap like that so maybe I'm just entirely hoster I Club [TS]

  Drive and because when you make a new document also say that I club the very [TS]

  fact of me trying to save it to local disk has to read the document my club I [TS]

  could drive on what you read about things in use I really horrifying [TS]

  complete failure of the most simple thing you could possibly do with pages [TS]

  which is make a text document and adjust it just boggles my mind and I just like [TS]

  what would regular people do like they would never try pages again I probably [TS]

  will never try pages again she kinda knows how to use pages and knows how to [TS]

  change the font and stuff so I'm afraid to switch out of that until i text that [TS]

  but unlike maybe just under two microsoft word 2003 and be able to save [TS]

  documents and Google Docs or crowd I know Google Docs will work we use it all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  edit this document and at no time are we all not able to open this document in no [TS]

  time are not able to save it like Apple what is going on I don't I don't mind [TS]

  and still as I sit here right now in her I Club Drive is the ghost of some [TS]

  ancient pages file paxon that I literally cannot delete from the finder [TS]

  I don't know one of the most depressing experiences I've had that will serve as [TS]

  I software in two years but saying a lot [TS]

  series of those like I i cant can you think of some obviously did also be [TS]

  worth of data loss and it wouldn't be allowed to date someone wasn't there [TS]

  didn't realize that you can you know select all copy and paste into a new [TS]

  thing you know find your way out of it but for a brief period of time I cannot [TS]

  open up her original Pages document anywhere [TS]

  couldn't open in any Mac can open any iOS device every time he tried to open [TS]

  it would give you an error and it was the only copy of the file that we had [TS]

  you learned a lesson that I'm slowly learning over the last couple of months [TS]

  which is that I think for maximum happiness is is best to keep a little [TS]

  bit more distance from Apple stuff than what we've been keeping and you know for [TS]

  me like that you know I'm rethinking my use of photos I'm rethinking my use of [TS]

  any kind of iCloud backend stuff rethinking whether even wanna keep [TS]

  wearing the Apple watch there's a lot of things were like you know Apple right [TS]

  now they're so big they're doing so much stuff they're spread so thin so much of [TS]

  Apple's stuff is in this 1.0 or beta state recently with no end in sight and [TS]

  it seemed like the direction the company is going is towards being even more [TS]

  spread thin can be having even more like 1.0 have finished products it's it's [TS]

  important for for people like us who do care about you know our our computing [TS]

  life happiness are stability or data integrity I i think it's important [TS]

  forces are realizing like you know going all-in and Apple is not happening [TS]

  anymore and it's best to keep some distance and you know maybe have a Mac [TS]

  and iPhone but you know not every iPad plus the Apple TV + every phone every [TS]

  year plus the Apple watch plus being other news services at music and photo [TS]

  photo library cloud all sorts of you know maybe not having everything I think [TS]

  you for me mostly what I have already known as long as its stick to the [TS]

  products that are really important Apple photos is way more important the pages [TS]

  and it shows I feel like right and things like i cud drive where there's [TS]

  already an alternative that I'll that I've been using the words to me like [TS]

  Dropbox right don't switch da club Dr just because it's apples thing because [TS]

  you already have Dropbox injury does that like it's the same reason I use [TS]

  Gmail [TS]

  pretty much no matter what Apple does without application and iCloud mail I [TS]

  would never switch from Gmail Gmail starts being unsatisfactory to me right [TS]

  now that's the whole thing is like just because Apple makes a version of a thing [TS]

  that you already have been like don't switch to it because you think the Apple [TS]

  thing is going to be better right [TS]

  only switch when you are dissatisfied with the thing that you have some not [TS]

  dissatisfied with Dropbox so I mean I did it for my daughter is giving her a [TS]

  difference like I'm thinking a different standard her like she has nothing now so [TS]

  maybe if she just starts off as an iCloud person right from day one and put [TS]

  all our stuff and I could drive maybe work out fine for I already have you [TS]

  know investment in Dropbox my stuff in Dropbox my habits formed in Dropbox [TS]

  Dropbox third party company could get acquired by someone could go out of [TS]

  business from a kid that they like you just start straight up apple and you [TS]

  just have you know one account and everything's on your Apple idea but I [TS]

  won't that be simpler for you it's less for me to explain like it's bad enough [TS]

  that my mother still insist on having to email addresses the pain it caused me is [TS]

  just tremendous amount of pain one is for spam and honestly I've kind of done [TS]

  that with my kids too because I don't trust because I'm so distrustful of [TS]

  Apple Mail I gave them both Gmail accounts as well so they have and you [TS]

  know it could be conducive to them if that was their revealed the confusion by [TS]

  just hit the Apple Mail app on their iOS devices just see the gmail icon is how [TS]

  they get there but for this that I made a different choice then it would offer [TS]

  myself basically cuz I would never done it before them I decided to do it and it [TS]

  was a mistake so I really need to trust my instincts more on if it's really [TS]

  really important to Apple it has a much higher chance then if it's like that [TS]

  sometimes I think it's maybe a healthy way to look at this would be in in the [TS]

  in the last ten years so we we keep going more and more towards integration [TS]

  and and and these these you know an increasingly smaller number of companies [TS]

  at each increasingly offer a larger number of services and products that [TS]

  people are expected to come to go all in one company for oh you're all in the [TS]

  Apple ecosystem are you all the Google ecosystem or whatever and I i think what [TS]

  what may be a better it would it look at this is kinda like the the danger of a [TS]

  monoculture and that if you're all in on on anything that it makes you vulnerable [TS]

  to problems and and maybe the healthier thing to do is to maintain diversity in [TS]

  the things that you use and things you rely on so you know I'm all-in on on [TS]

  Apple stuff in a lot of ways but I don't use i-five drive because it feels like a [TS]

  little too much in a way that Apple's not very good at usually so and i ended [TS]

  my email I use fast enough for that with me in front of it so I you know that's [TS]

  why wouldn't I wouldn't trust I thought mail even know a lot of people do it [TS]

  works fine I'm surprised you didn't tell me your usual speech was like really in [TS]

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