00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 477. Today's show is brought to you by Electric and ZocDoc.
00:01:06 ◼ ► and in the morning as the sun starts to come up seeing that the American flag is still flying
00:01:12 ◼ ► over the place that was being attacked. So that's how it starts. It starts in the middle of the story.
00:01:58 ◼ ► I'm wondering what prompted Jason's wife to make the upgrade this year. I may also do so,
00:02:03 ◼ ► but I'm undecided as my XS still works reliably more or less and continues to have OS support."
00:02:09 ◼ ► I thought this was an interesting question. The truth is that we were on a two-year cycle
00:02:16 ◼ ► where I was on the two-year cycle. For a while there, what would happen is I would buy a new
00:02:21 ◼ ► phone. And then two years later, I got a new phone. I would give Lauren my old phone. And
00:02:26 ◼ ► she was fine with that. She was quite happy with that. However, I bought an iPhone mini,
00:02:30 ◼ ► and she was not happy with that. And then last year, I pushed back a year because the iPhone
00:02:40 ◼ ► mini died. And it's a four-year-old phone. It's time. So my answer is that, yeah, I could have
00:02:46 ◼ ► waited a year for it to not run the current OS because the iPhone X doesn't. So the XS is next.
00:02:51 ◼ ► So the kids have theirs. I have mine. Why would she not have hers? I felt like it was time for
00:02:58 ◼ ► that to happen. So now she's got, honestly, for the first time in a long time, she's got a brand
00:03:09 ◼ ► Oh, okay. We'll talk about that later. If you would like to send in a question of your own,
00:03:19 ◼ ► snow talk questions there as well. And many more things. Just go to upgradefeedback.com.
00:03:28 ◼ ► Child and Cancer Awareness Month. Since 2019 at Relay FM, we have now raised, we actually have
00:03:35 ◼ ► now raised over $2.5 million as a community. That was what we wanted to pass this year. And we've
00:03:40 ◼ ► done it. So we've hit our first goal for 2023. We put a new goal in this year's campaign. Why not go
00:03:46 ◼ ► for half a million dollars this year? We're at $341,000 raised right now for the kids of St. Jude.
00:03:51 ◼ ► St. Jude will not stop their life-saving work until no child dies from cancer. With your support,
00:03:56 ◼ ► we'll be one step closer to that day. One cure closer, one child closer. The main thing I want
00:04:01 ◼ ► to let everybody know about today, Jason, is that the fifth annual podcast of home for St. Jude is
00:04:06 ◼ ► coming this Friday, September 22nd. It is a 12-hour event, which is unbelievable. Very excited.
00:04:15 ◼ ► I'm going to give you some times here. It starts at 12 p.m. Eastern time, right? So that's
00:04:24 ◼ ► 9 Pacific. 9 Pacific and of course 11 Central. In central Memphis time where we will be. And that is
00:04:33 ◼ ► a different time everywhere else. I wanted to start saying times and realize that the event
00:04:40 ◼ ► that I have in my calendar for the podcastathon is like, it's early for when the actual event starts.
00:04:46 ◼ ► All right, so here we go. Hold on, let me, I can do this. I can solve this. I can make this really,
00:04:52 ◼ ► really helpful. It is at T colon 1695398458 colon F. You know, I thought you were going to help me.
00:05:02 ◼ ► I don't actually know what that means, what you just said. Did you just do one of those
00:05:05 ◼ ► conversations? I think that's the Unix time. I think that's the Unix time that is what you
00:05:09 ◼ ► insert into Discord when you want it to be a universal time that displays everywhere. So
00:05:13 ◼ ► here we go. 9 Pacific. 11 Central. 12 Eastern. That is 5 p.m. UTC. British summer time. That
00:05:24 ◼ ► would be 4 p.m. UTC or GMT. And 6 p.m. in Central European time, which is what Rome is. That's what
00:05:33 ◼ ► I have in my little time zone thing here. So look, we're starting at, just do the calculation
00:05:38 ◼ ► yourself. We're starting at 12 p.m. US Eastern time. It will run for 12 hours, which I'm sure no
00:05:43 ◼ ► matter where you are, you could at least catch some of the event. We're going to be broadcasting
00:05:47 ◼ ► live from St. Jude. So we're in the studio there. We have quite possibly the biggest production,
00:05:53 ◼ ► no, not quite possibly. We have the biggest production we've ever had. We're going to be
00:05:57 ◼ ► spending the next like three or four days getting everything set up. And we will be joined by the
00:06:02 ◼ ► one and only Jason Snell. Hello, Jason. Hello, Mike. Great to be here. No, wait a second. What
00:06:08 ◼ ► are we doing? Not yet. Yes, I'll be there. I've got flights. Yep. Kathy Campbell and I are going
00:06:14 ◼ ► to be flying in from the coast to lend additional bodies to the 12 hour long production. There's
00:06:21 ◼ ► gonna, well look, the entire event is focused around Mike versus Steven. We're gonna need
00:06:26 ◼ ► adjudicators, referees, and participants for these events. You know, when this was originally pitched
00:06:31 ◼ ► to me, I don't know if you know this, it was pitched as, oh, we would like you and Kathy to
00:06:35 ◼ ► come to the Podcastathon to help with some stuff. I was like, okay, that sounds great. And it was
00:06:41 ◼ ► very much like, we don't really know what you're going to do. You can like, you'll help with some
00:06:45 ◼ ► stuff. In the meetings I've had more recently, it is very clear that Kathy and I are going to be out
00:06:51 ◼ ► there, maybe not as long as you and Mike or you and Steven, but a long time. There are a lot of
00:06:57 ◼ ► things that you'll be involved in. Because we have to adjudicate or commentate about you guys.
00:07:02 ◼ ► You don't need to be there the whole time. Like you don't. Me and Steven are going to be there
00:07:05 ◼ ► for like, we're obviously there for the whole time. We'll be present in some capacity for all
00:07:09 ◼ ► of it. But I can assure you that the requests on you and Kathy will not be as heavy. You can hang
00:07:15 ◼ ► out on the set, you can hang out backstage, you know, and then we'll just shout for you like,
00:07:19 ◼ ► "Jason!" I'm not saying that we're doing as much as you and Steven. I'm just saying that
00:07:25 ◼ ► I was enjoying the fact that it was a ramp up from, "You need to participate in a brief portion
00:07:31 ◼ ► of the show," to being like, "Well, we're sort of just assuming that we own you for the day."
00:07:35 ◼ ► And I was like, "That's fine. You do own us for the day." It just was a fun progression.
00:07:44 ◼ ► starts out as we're going to do this. And then by the end of it, we've added 50% more runtime.
00:07:50 ◼ ► Way on past it. So we're going to be live for 12 hours on the 22nd of September, this coming
00:07:58 ◼ ► Friday at twitch.tv/relayfm. We posted about it on all of our socials, but please come in, join us.
00:08:04 ◼ ► We've got so much fun stuff planned. Like seriously, this is going to be an incredibly fun time. Me and
00:08:14 ◼ ► like from video games to... I don't even want to spoil it, but we've just got some incredible
00:08:19 ◼ ► stuff planned. We'll be posting some teasers of things, I'm sure, on Mastodon and Threads and
00:08:24 ◼ ► Instagram over the next few days, but we're going to have a great time. So go to stjude.org/relay.
00:08:29 ◼ ► You can donate there. You can sign up for fundraising yourself and help us meet our goals
00:08:33 ◼ ► for the kids of St. Jude. But don't forget to join us this Friday. That is stjude.org/relay.
00:08:39 ◼ ► St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer. With your support, we'll be one step
00:08:48 ◼ ► let's cure childhood cancer together. Got some follow-up, Jason Snell. Some of it kind of spanning
00:08:54 ◼ ► back a couple of weeks because we didn't talk about any follow-up over the last couple of weeks.
00:08:58 ◼ ► I'll start with one of those, actually. So the UK government has had to face the facts that the
00:09:04 ◼ ► boffins could not solve the encryption problem they wanted to punch holes into an encryption.
00:09:09 ◼ ► But they brought in the boffins. They hoped they would be able to bring in the boffins.
00:09:14 ◼ ► Oh, but the boffins told them what they didn't want to hear, which is that they couldn't do
00:09:18 ◼ ► anything about it because it's math. Yeah. So effectively what's happened is the law passed,
00:09:22 ◼ ► right? But the government has basically conceded that the technology does not exist and they won't
00:09:29 ◼ ► do anything until the technology exists. So they're not going to enforce their back doors.
00:09:33 ◼ ► And so like the government's like, "Hey, no, we still care about this. We're not going to
00:09:38 ◼ ► do anything." But we all realistically know that to do what they want to do is effectively
00:09:44 ◼ ► impossible. This is kind of amazing because it's actually even an outcome that I don't think I
00:09:48 ◼ ► considered, which is what if the government just goes ahead and passes it and then just
00:09:52 ◼ ► tells everybody, "Never mind." This was actually something, not this exact, but this is what kind
00:09:57 ◼ ► of what I expected to happen. Like I said on the show that like my expectation was that they would
00:10:02 ◼ ► pass the law, but then realize that these tech companies will leave. And so they'll just pretend
00:10:07 ◼ ► like it never existed. And essentially what they did that, but they're just like, "Oh, hey, you
00:10:11 ◼ ► know, that technology, it will come. And when it does, oh boy, will we protect those children?"
00:10:21 ◼ ► just to do a really short rephrase of this, the truth is the only way that you can make this work
00:10:26 ◼ ► is by having another key. And there has been no backdoor key, extra key, skeleton key that has not
00:10:36 ◼ ► leaked at some point, right? It's not safe. It doesn't matter where it is. It's not safe. It will
00:10:40 ◼ ► get out. The Clipper key got out. The Microsoft had that key that got out that let people spy on
00:10:48 ◼ ► people's email. Like the keys get out. They just do. And so there's no way this can work.
00:10:56 ◼ ► Like basically the way it'll work, if ever, is the way that it works right now. And how, like in the
00:11:02 ◼ ► US, how a lot of this stuff happens, which is there are bugs that are exploited. You know, there's
00:11:08 ◼ ► stuff that is cracked and security holes are used, but an actual systematic creation of a second key
00:11:16 ◼ ► or some other kind of backdoor. So people are saying in the chat room, like quantum computing,
00:11:19 ◼ ► it's like, yeah, the most likely scenario here is that in the end, the encryption that's being used
00:11:24 ◼ ► will be cracked by a government computer or something that is super powerful. But like,
00:11:30 ◼ ► basically this is all just window dressing for them to say they're doing something about
00:11:39 ◼ ► Yeah. So I'm happy about this. It's not perfect, but this will certainly do, right? That like,
00:11:46 ◼ ► when I'm not going to lose iMessage and WhatsApp and all this kind of stuff. So I'll live with that.
00:11:50 ◼ ► Lots of people wrote in with theories and ideas for what Apple may do to make the A17 Pro a not
00:11:58 ◼ ► pro chip next year, you know, put the A17 in the iPhone 16. Most people mentioned a variation of
00:12:05 ◼ ► Apple somehow binning the graphics chip, like seditious, like they've been the chips and the
00:12:09 ◼ ► graphics isn't as powerful, or they removed the USB three controller as a way to bring down the
00:12:15 ◼ ► capability of that chip to make it work as an A17. And Eric also wrote in to say something I thought
00:12:22 ◼ ► was interesting that we may see the A17 first in an updated iPad or iPad mini, because that's most
00:12:28 ◼ ► likely the next product. Could be. I think the question, I think these are all good, kind of like
00:12:33 ◼ ► juicy conspiracy theories. I know Marco mentioned this on ATP last week as well, this idea, but it's
00:12:39 ◼ ► funny to me because it's sort of like Apple in secret has been collecting defective chips and
00:12:46 ◼ ► relabeling them as the A17. Nobody is aware of it. And then they unveil it. It's very conspiratorial,
00:12:53 ◼ ► but yet it's plausible. They could have, I mean, when talking about binning, you need a very large
00:12:57 ◼ ► bin for all to collect all the chips you're going to use next year. That's a very large bin. In my
00:13:03 ◼ ► mind, there's like a person in one of those bunny suits, right. And they find the chip and they just
00:13:07 ◼ ► throw it over their shoulder and it lands in a big trash can. And like, that's where the bin chips go.
00:13:12 ◼ ► Or it like lands on a big like conveyor belt that whisks it away to the, to the big bin.
00:13:19 ◼ ► There could be a furnace, but it takes a left turn and it goes into a big plastic bin. Yeah.
00:13:25 ◼ ► Yeah. It's like in where the arc of the covenant is in the Indiana Jones movies. It's the, uh,
00:13:39 ◼ ► There should not be A chips in iPads anymore. Oh, so I think the iPad mini should get an M3 or
00:13:43 ◼ ► whatever. See, I was going to say that I think the like iPad air will get possibly will get an
00:13:52 ◼ ► A17 pro, not an M3. So going the other way that it is, it's going to be the iPhone chip.
00:13:58 ◼ ► Surely they'll keep the pro chips for the iPad pros, right? They wouldn't put it in the air.
00:14:14 ◼ ► Boo-hoo, I guess. I don't know. Jason, if they took away the, the, uh, if they took away
00:14:21 ◼ ► stage manager from the iPad air, like, I don't know what they're doing. Like the, why did they
00:14:27 ◼ ► That's a good question. Why did they add it? So, okay. There are lots of things they can do,
00:14:32 ◼ ► but look, I'm just trying to explore the options here. So the other option is a lot of people are
00:14:36 ◼ ► like next year, then the A17 will come out and it'll just be the A17 pro, but not quite as good
00:14:41 ◼ ► and leftover from last year, maybe. Okay. They could also just call it the A18, right? They could
00:14:46 ◼ ► all just, they could also just say next year, we'll actually make two variations on this chip.
00:14:51 ◼ ► 17 and 18, we could do that. Right. So that's also possible, but I love this idea that maybe
00:14:57 ◼ ► they're reserving it. And the theory that we might actually see it in an iPad also interesting,
00:15:04 ◼ ► right? Like what is the bifurcation between the A series and the M series? What is it, you know,
00:15:09 ◼ ► what does it all mean? Right. Like there are fewer, there's less of everything in the A series.
00:15:16 ◼ ► What is required of an iPad? And then would they make a second chip for the low-end phones?
00:15:22 ◼ ► My theory there, by the way, is not that they would just make a second chip for the low-end
00:15:27 ◼ ► phones, whether it's a binned A17 pro or not. My theory is that they would make a low-end chip that
00:15:33 ◼ ► would go on the low-end phones and in all their embedded devices, right? That's the Apple TV chip,
00:15:39 ◼ ► and it's the HomePod chip, and it's whatever, what other like the, maybe it's the studio display or
00:15:46 ◼ ► the next generation display that they're working on. Like that, that's where that goes, right? Is
00:15:51 ◼ ► that the super low-end one where it's like, we don't need to put an A17 pro in that stuff.
00:15:56 ◼ ► Maybe that's their idea. And that's the reason that you build a second lower-end chip. I don't
00:16:01 ◼ ► know. I don't know. It's fascinating. See, isn't this great? We could talk about this. We probably
00:16:05 ◼ ► won't every week, but we will talk about this a lot. We got so much follow-up about it. Maybe
00:16:11 ◼ ► this is going to keep continuing. So if you do have thoughts and concerns or theories or whatever,
00:16:16 ◼ ► about the A17 chips, go to upgradefeedback.com, fill out the form. Yeah. Talking about that,
00:16:22 ◼ ► actually like thoughts and feelings. We put the last episode up in full on YouTube, on our
00:16:28 ◼ ► YouTube channel. It's a full video episode of like, well, obviously we weren't together,
00:16:32 ◼ ► but it goes from me and you, you know, backwards and forwards, showing our video that we shoot for
00:16:38 ◼ ► our video clips, but in full. This is the first time we've done it this way, right? Like we had
00:16:45 ◼ ► the one that Apple shot for us at WWDC. But that was more of a like, you know, produced thing.
00:16:52 ◼ ► We didn't know if we were going to do this and we didn't mention on the last week's episode,
00:16:56 ◼ ► but what happened is we, we, I thought it was a big episode and we would give it a try.
00:17:01 ◼ ► And, um, cause we do the clips, but we do shoot the whole show. So we, we, we gave it a shot. Um,
00:17:09 ◼ ► and it's, uh, I think it turned out pretty well. There's a, there's a process that we're experimenting
00:17:15 ◼ ► with. And the idea here is there's actually a, uh, like some plugins that make it so that you can
00:17:21 ◼ ► kind of like auto switch to whoever is talking. And the question was like, how did it turn out?
00:17:27 ◼ ► And I think the answer is it turned out really well. Like I am surprised how good I was waiting.
00:17:34 ◼ ► I was thinking of all the ways that it could be bad and actually it turned out pretty well. Um,
00:17:38 ◼ ► and I know for a lot of people, the video, like it's two guys talking, it's not that exciting,
00:17:42 ◼ ► but I do know that a lot of people, um, what put these videos on when they're working or whatever,
00:17:49 ◼ ► they're at a computer. So they've got a video screen. So they had the video on. And then
00:17:52 ◼ ► when something's going on, that's interesting, they'll glance over and look at us. And the
00:17:55 ◼ ► rest of the time they're just listening. I think that's how a lot of video podcasts are consumed.
00:17:59 ◼ ► So, so we tried it and yeah, we definitely like to hear from people about what it is if we,
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00:20:08 ◼ ► support of this show and relay FM. Rumor round up Jason Snow. Okay. Got a couple of rumors.
00:20:15 ◼ ► There's one that we just had to talk about today because Mark Gurman is reporting that friend of
00:20:20 ◼ ► the show, actual friend of the show, Tim Millet has been put in charge of the blood glucose
00:20:26 ◼ ► monitoring technology for an upcoming Apple watch. So we had Tim on the show a number of times,
00:20:31 ◼ ► Tim and Tom talking about Tom Apple silicon chips. And now this team, which is known as the
00:20:37 ◼ ► exploratory design group is being headed by Tim Tim Millet. Uh, it was previously led by bill
00:20:44 ◼ ► Afas, who unfortunately died at the end of 2022. And the team has kind of been reporting to Johnny
00:20:49 ◼ ► Srouji for a while. And now Tim has taken it over. I'll give a bit of additional context.
00:20:53 ◼ ► As a reminder, this is from Mark, Gomez report, the group working on the glucose tracker resides
00:20:57 ◼ ► of an Apple semiconductor organization because the system relies on an advanced chip based system.
00:21:02 ◼ ► It uses a range of sensors to shoot lasers into the skin and determine how much that's actually
00:21:09 ◼ ► in Mark's report. He wrote that down. It's unbelievable. Uh, it also uses a range of sensors
00:21:13 ◼ ► to shoot those lasers into the skin to determine how much glucose is present in a person's body
00:21:18 ◼ ► combined of an artificial intelligence algorithm. The chip can then determine a person's blood sugar.
00:21:23 ◼ ► Pretty wild. So it's a chip based thing, which is why Tim Millet apparently is the is a good choice
00:21:32 ◼ ► here because he's been on the chip team and worked a lot on the Apple silicon transition. And so,
00:21:37 ◼ ► which is why we talked to him. Um, and that this is a, we've talked about this before. This is a
00:21:43 ◼ ► huge, potentially huge thing for Apple, right? If Apple can get glucose monitoring via Apple
00:21:52 ◼ ► watch to work, that opens up a lot of possibility in terms of managing diabetes or, uh, suggesting
00:22:02 ◼ ► that people might have, you know, potential future, you know, pre-diabetes kind of conditions. And
00:22:08 ◼ ► like, there's just a lot going on there if they can get it to work. Even more than that, just
00:22:14 ◼ ► understanding how different foods affect your blood sugar is, can be helpful for everyone when
00:22:19 ◼ ► it comes to just like having a diet about a different or better diet. You're, you're speaking
00:22:25 ◼ ► like somebody who is working on an Apple marketing campaign and has been told that you can't make
00:22:32 ◼ ► medical claims. No, while I say I did this recently, so there's a, there's a company in the UK
00:22:37 ◼ ► called Zoe and they provide you this whole kit, which includes wearing one of those glucose
00:22:43 ◼ ► monitors for a couple of weeks. And then they can give you ideas about how different foods affect
00:22:48 ◼ ► your body. So like, we just did this and it's been very interesting. So, I mean, again, I don't know
00:22:54 ◼ ► how, uh, I can't speak to the efficacy from a health perspective for something like this,
00:22:59 ◼ ► but it was interesting to have this information and like, I could see that when I'd eat certain
00:23:03 ◼ ► food, it would make my blood sugar spike because it was like connected to an app via Bluetooth.
00:23:07 ◼ ► So like, there are benefits that people can have from this, even if diabetes isn't necessarily a
00:23:13 ◼ ► going concern in their life. Like you can still learn things about you from monitoring your blood
00:23:19 ◼ ► sugar. Sounds great. Well, Tim Malet, get to it. That's pretty cool though, right? This could be
00:23:24 ◼ ► really big. This is a big job, right? Like it seems like running this team is like, well,
00:23:29 ◼ ► you're about to absolutely unlock the Apple watch, right? Like if you, if they can do this,
00:23:35 ◼ ► we spoke about this when this rumor came out, the floodgates were opened. They will sell a
00:23:41 ◼ ► bajillion Apple watches if they can do this. And Ming Chi Kuo is reporting that the demand for the
00:23:47 ◼ ► 15 pro max is far outpacing the demand for the 14 pro max. And due to this, the wait times for this
00:23:53 ◼ ► product are pushing pretty far out into the year. This is pretty, within a couple of hours, the pro
00:23:58 ◼ ► maxes were going out into November after the pre-orders opened. Kuo is saying demand for the
00:24:04 ◼ ► 15 and 15 plus are on par with what they're replacing, but the 15 pro is a little weaker
00:24:14 ◼ ► I guess what this is saying is that having that extra zoom was a prompt for people to get the pro
00:24:24 ◼ ► max instead of the pro, right? There's differentiation between those two models and where
00:24:29 ◼ ► somebody might've previously opted for the pro, they might have that moment where they're like,
00:24:34 ◼ ► "Yeah, but I really want the..." I guess I'm talking about Casey Liss here, right? He's a good example.
00:24:40 ◼ ► Our friend Casey, who has been a pro phone user, but bought the pro max because he really wants
00:24:46 ◼ ► that 5X zoom. So Ming Chi Kuo's report suggests that there are, I think unsurprisingly, a lot of
00:24:53 ◼ ► people who are like, "Yeah, give me the better zoom. Why would I not want the better zoom?"
00:25:03 ◼ ► I don't need the bigger screen. I don't want to pay the extra. I'll just get the regular pro."
00:25:07 ◼ ► And then this year they're like, "No, the max has to be it because I want that fancy camera."
00:25:12 ◼ ► I'm also not surprised about the fact that the natural and white titanium are the most popular
00:25:18 ◼ ► finishes because they actually look like titanium, I guess. If you care about the fact that the
00:25:25 ◼ ► material has changed, the black and the blue one are not really necessarily... You can tell me,
00:25:46 ◼ ► what you want titanium to look like, not really necessarily what it actually looks like.
00:25:50 ◼ ► So I think it's a style thing. Is this where I rant about the color czar again? I feel like
00:25:59 ◼ ► the color czar has completely lost it. I can say that... We're going to talk a little bit more
00:26:06 ◼ ► about last week, but I'll save it. I'll save it for a minute, but I'll just stew in the background
00:26:14 ◼ ► for a few minutes and we'll get there. But it doesn't surprise me that people like these because
00:26:21 ◼ ► it's a new metal and it doesn't surprise me because not everybody wants the dark phone or
00:26:26 ◼ ► the other dark phone. So that's okay. Let's talk a little bit more about last week though,
00:26:37 ◼ ► Well, I mean, if you want to jump right into it, you can feel free. No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:26:41 ◼ ► no, no. Let's keep it orderly here and I'll just let my color thoughts build up. What devices did
00:26:47 ◼ ► you order, if any? All right, as predicted earlier on. So I bought iPhone 15 Pro. Everybody,
00:26:55 ◼ ► I woke up, of course, as I do in the morning Pacific time and all my friends who got there
00:27:01 ◼ ► right like on the dot to order because Apple's trained us and they're like, "Oh, and this,
00:27:04 ◼ ► and there was an ordering problem and this." And now they're back ordered and all that. And I was
00:27:07 ◼ ► like, "Oh, geez, I guess I better go and order it now." Did not have a problem, got it shipping day,
00:27:13 ◼ ► even hours after it went on sale. And that's because I got the 15 Pro, which is not as popular
00:27:19 ◼ ► as the Pro Max. And I got it 256 and I got it in blue titanium, one of the least popular finishes,
00:27:27 ◼ ► I guess. And so I had no problem. It was not an issue. I ordered that and I went with the blue
00:27:33 ◼ ► titanium because I love my midnight MacBook Air and it's sort of in the ballpark of that.
00:27:37 ◼ ► And I just decided to, even though I am a big fan of the black phone and I also have the black
00:27:42 ◼ ► Apple Watch titanium, I decided that Apple's black phone is dark gray. It really is. And at that
00:27:49 ◼ ► point, like, give me the blue, the dark blue kind of thing works better for me. I like it better.
00:27:55 ◼ ► It was a completely like perfectly black iPhone. I might be interested, but it's not, so I'm not.
00:28:01 ◼ ► And then for Lauren, as mentioned earlier, I got her an iPhone 15, 128 green with the green
00:28:09 ◼ ► fine woven case. She was deeply unimpressed with the colors on offer, like deeply. And I actually
00:28:21 ◼ ► said at one point, she said, "Where are the good colors? Where are the bright colors?" And I said,
00:28:25 ◼ ► "You can get an iPhone 14. Jamie and Julian both have an iPhone 14. You could just get the iPhone
00:28:32 ◼ ► 14. It comes in some nicer colors." And she's like, "No, no, I'll." And in the end, she went
00:28:45 ◼ ► I ordered a, well, Steven ordered for me an iPhone 15 Pro Max, 512 gigabyte in natural titanium,
00:28:54 ◼ ► because I'm picking it up here. So got on and quickly got that for me. That's for launch day,
00:28:59 ◼ ► which is podcastathon day. So maybe we'll open our iPhones while we're live. I also ordered an
00:29:06 ◼ ► Apple watch ultra two, which I'm picking up on Saturday with the orange ocean band. I also got
00:29:13 ◼ ► the orange and beige trail loop and the blue flame Nike sport band. So I'm refreshing all my bands.
00:29:18 ◼ ► So they have a bit of orange in them so I can match up with the orange on the watch because
00:29:22 ◼ ► on the ultra two. Yeah, this is what you have to do. I also, we ordered for a DNA and iPhone
00:29:26 ◼ ► 15 pro 256 and blue titanium, because that was what she wanted. Nice blue titanium club. Yeah.
00:29:33 ◼ ► I mean, yeah, she's got my phone. She and I are getting the same phone. Yeah. It looks nice,
00:29:38 ◼ ► but I'm all into the natural color. Mike, the people who really love you get the iPhone 15 pro
00:29:45 ◼ ► 256. I love that. Thank you. That's a big smile on my face. Steven showed me yesterday. He got the
00:29:53 ◼ ► fine woven case came in. Yeah. I don't like it. It feels like it's like a texture paper. And I think,
00:30:01 ◼ ► honestly, I think they made a mistake. I don't think that they should have gotten rid. I don't,
00:30:06 ◼ ► I'm not saying they should have kept leather, but I feel like they should have gone with
00:30:13 ◼ ► something different. Like a kind of like maybe carbon fiber or some kind of cloth material
00:30:20 ◼ ► because the fine woven, I don't like it. I will, I feel like I need to spend more time with it,
00:30:25 ◼ ► but as a case, it honestly, to me, like I've, I've seen and experienced on like, and I've handled
00:30:32 ◼ ► like cardboard, like textured cardboard. That's what this feels like. Not a fan. It's interesting
00:30:38 ◼ ► because I have felt for a while now that that is what Apple's leather has been going toward too.
00:30:46 ◼ ► Huh? Okay. I've had a couple of Apple leather things where I thought, uh, this feels, I forget
00:30:52 ◼ ► what was the last one. It might've been a band. And I thought this actually feels less like leather
00:30:57 ◼ ► to me and more like bendable paper. Right. I mean, they've probably been reducing the leather,
00:31:03 ◼ ► like content. Yeah, maybe. But I think, I think that there's also, uh, this is adjacent to the,
00:31:09 ◼ ► there's no, the leathers are lost their job last week. Right. The leathers are is gone,
00:31:15 ◼ ► but I do think that there's a style issue here too, where they like, this is the kind of fine,
00:31:20 ◼ ► you know, material and they're probably consulting with people who are, uh, textile experts and
00:31:26 ◼ ► right materials experts to do all this stuff. And that there's a particular take they have
00:31:30 ◼ ► about this. Uh, and yeah, it may not work for people. I, I thought that it worked pretty well
00:31:36 ◼ ► as a facsimile in the watch bands, but I did not see a phone case when I was at the event.
00:31:41 ◼ ► I only saw the fine woven watch bands and I thought that they were okay. But part of that
00:31:46 ◼ ► is that they were literally in the context of what the leather bands were. They're the same designs.
00:31:51 ◼ ► They look exactly the same. They're just made out of a different material. Um, and maybe that
00:31:55 ◼ ► doesn't work for a watch case. I don't know. Or I mean, phone case. I don't use a case. So I don't
00:32:01 ◼ ► know, but I'm looking forward to getting Lauren's probably today. Right. Like, I mean, we were in
00:32:06 ◼ ► the season where everybody gets their case before they get their phone. I'm looking forward to, uh,
00:32:11 ◼ ► seeing what that is all about. Obviously I'm not going to worry. I'm not going to have a case on
00:32:14 ◼ ► my phone cause I don't like doing that. I just use a pop socket. They have a great magnetic pop socket.
00:32:19 ◼ ► Now that does a great job. That's what I hear. It's great. Uh, you wrote an article kind of with
00:32:24 ◼ ► some reactions and stuff like that to the event. Um, now that you've kind of had a little bit more
00:32:28 ◼ ► time for things to settle in, is there anything that you wanted to touch on? I'll talk about from,
00:32:33 ◼ ► uh, from the event last week that maybe we didn't cover too much or in a way that you'd like to
00:32:38 ◼ ► adapt now. One of the things that is funny is that when you go to the event, uh, and this happened
00:32:43 ◼ ► when I got back afterward, um, and talk to you is we're not in the, you know, discourse, the internet
00:32:53 ◼ ► discourse. We're in our own discourse. It's different. Yeah. Well, well, so there's a whole,
00:32:57 ◼ ► like, what did you think about other people's reactions? And it's kind of not my business
00:33:02 ◼ ► to have opinions about other people's reactions. It's my business to have reactions. Um, uh, so
00:33:08 ◼ ► really not concerned, but I'm not surprised at the reactions because these are the reactions every
00:33:14 ◼ ► time, which is people have an unreasonable assumption that every Apple event that doesn't
00:33:21 ◼ ► do something like radically different and change the world is boring. And it's unrealistic because
00:33:30 ◼ ► those happen so rarely, like the last big change in iPhone, like really legitimately big change in
00:33:38 ◼ ► iPhone was the iPhone 10, which was five years ago. Like they don't make enormous changes. And
00:33:47 ◼ ► while this was in terms of the sort of like super cycle of design, a pretty minor change,
00:33:52 ◼ ► because it's just kind of going to titanium on the pro phones. The truth is that Apple,
00:33:59 ◼ ► I feel like a lot of people observe an Apple event and they're basically, they want entertainment out
00:34:04 ◼ ► of it. They think the purpose of the event is to keep them entertained. And it's not, it's a
00:34:10 ◼ ► commercial for products that are being launched. It's for one of the most popular consumer products
00:34:15 ◼ ► in the world. One of the most profitable, certainly. And the most important product that
00:34:19 ◼ ► Apple makes it's their opportunity to do a commercial to promote their new version so that
00:34:26 ◼ ► people will run out and buy their new version. That's why it exists. And it's not Apple's job
00:34:31 ◼ ► to entertain the masses. It's not a TV show. It's an ad. And the ultimate goal is to just
00:34:41 ◼ ► get their product out there and get people talking about it. So there's a lot of commentary that's
00:34:45 ◼ ► like, "Oh, I found it really boring." And it's like, yeah, but that's kind of not the point.
00:34:50 ◼ ► Right? Like the point is not how bored were you by the ad. The point is what was in the ad and how's
00:34:57 ◼ ► it going to sell? I think. And so that's what I always pay attention to there. It's like,
00:35:04 ◼ ► I'm not, so people were like, "Oh, that environmental video wasn't that funny." And you said
00:35:15 ◼ ► but I understand why they did it because it's more palatable for there to be a scripted story
00:35:23 ◼ ► that makes the case that Apple is the only one walking the walk when it comes to environmental
00:35:31 ◼ ► change in their corporate, in their tech planning and their manufacturing and all of that.
00:35:37 ◼ ► And if all it was was Lisa Jackson standing on the roof saying, "We're better than everyone else.
00:35:42 ◼ ► Unlike the competition, we're actually doing things." It's not going to come across as well.
00:35:46 ◼ ► So I thought it was deft in that way, even though it was not as funny as maybe it should have been
00:35:50 ◼ ► and also probably way too long. So anyway, that was just a thought that I had. I was not surprised
00:35:57 ◼ ► by it at all because it happens literally every time. I think it's funny that people think that
00:36:02 ◼ ► every time there's an Apple event, they're going to change the world when the truth is every time
00:36:08 ◼ ► there's an Apple event, people complain that it's boring. That's the truth. People complain that
00:36:14 ◼ ► they didn't change the world every year. That's what happens every year. So I thought it was fine.
00:36:19 ◼ ► I just am surprised that every year people are like, "Wow, an incremental update from Apple."
00:36:25 ◼ ► It's like, one, you're underselling what did get updated. The camera stuff is kind of big.
00:36:32 ◼ ► And two, it's an incremental update every time, every time, with very few exceptions. So I don't
00:36:39 ◼ ► know what they're looking for. I mean, I just, I have those moments where I'm like, you just have
00:36:43 ◼ ► to accept that this is how everybody is always going to respond to an Apple event, especially
00:36:48 ◼ ► an iPhone event is they have like a little piece of paper with a checklist on it. And the checklist
00:36:56 ◼ ► is one box and it's changed the world. And then every year they get up and they tear the paper
00:37:01 ◼ ► and they're like, "Ah, they didn't do it." And we're like, okay, I mean, yeah, I guess so. Except
00:37:08 ◼ ► that, you know, if you're buying a phone for the first time in four years, it's a pretty awesome
00:37:13 ◼ ► improvement. And that's really what they're trying to do is sell you on a phone upgrade.
00:37:18 ◼ ► It is interesting to me specifically when people in our industry make the case of like,
00:37:26 ◼ ► "Oh, it's only iterative." Like that is the thing that's so surprising to me. It's just like,
00:37:32 ◼ ► what were you expecting? What do you think Apple does? Or like, but like, what would you,
00:37:37 ◼ ► what does any large tech company do now? Like if they're not launching a brand new product that
00:37:44 ◼ ► didn't exist before, they're iterating each year on the existing thing, right? Like when Apple makes
00:37:51 ◼ ► a foldable iPhone, that will be a huge deal. But like until then, every iPhone is just going to get
00:37:56 ◼ ► a little bit better than the one before, which has been the way it's been maybe for the last 10 years.
00:38:02 ◼ ► Yeah, I think some people remember what happened 10 years ago, right? I think some people remember
00:38:06 ◼ ► those heady, and they were, heady early days of the smartphone era, where we had perhaps the most
00:38:19 ◼ ► ever happened. And in those first few years, everything is cutting edge. Everything, they are
00:38:25 ◼ ► iterating rapidly and adding features to the software and adding features to the hardware.
00:38:29 ◼ ► And it was really exciting because the world was changing. We were changing from a world where no
00:38:34 ◼ ► smartphones were in it to a world where the smartphone is everywhere. And it's assumed that
00:38:39 ◼ ► if you want to park somewhere, you have to have your phone because you need to use an app to park,
00:38:43 ◼ ► right? Like it is, we've gone from point A to point B here. Those early days were really
00:38:47 ◼ ► exciting, but like they're over and they've been over for a long time now. And I get like,
00:38:53 ◼ ► I get it. I would love, I mean, it would be exhausting because the world would change so
00:38:57 ◼ ► much that we would not recognize it anymore, but sure, change the world every time, right?
00:39:02 ◼ ► Like they just did an event where they put in like the spatial computer VR headset thing, right?
00:39:09 ◼ ► And yet the very next event people are like, "Oh, boring." Like, "Okay, sure. All right, fine." You
00:39:15 ◼ ► can be bored. It's fine. I'm just saying, I think your expectations are unrealistic because what
00:39:20 ◼ ► Apple does is John Gruber wrote like 15 years ago now is iterate, they roll. That's what they do.
00:39:26 ◼ ► They just kind of push it forward. And it's very rare that they give it a big push. It's mostly a
00:39:30 ◼ ► bunch of little small pushes. And then you look up four years later and you're like, "Oh, wow,
00:39:34 ◼ ► this phone is like, like Lauren is going to have a very different experience with her iPhone
00:39:39 ◼ ► 15 than with her 10S, right? It's going to be dramatically different and better because it's,
00:39:46 ◼ ► you know, four years later. When I was coming through customs, I was talking to the customs
00:39:49 ◼ ► agent. He asked me what I did. I explained what I do. And he's like, "Shall I upgrade to the iPhone 15?"
00:39:56 ◼ ► And I was like, "Well, what do you got now?" He's like, "I'm gonna have phone 12." I'm like, "Oh,
00:39:59 ◼ ► yeah, you have a great time." And he's like, "Oh, should I have to get the pro one though?" I'm like,
00:40:03 ◼ ► "I don't think it matters. Like, if you've got the 12 now and you go to the regular 15,
00:40:20 ◼ ► I'm importing it. I'm importing the knowledge. There was nobody in America that could have helped
00:40:23 ◼ ► with the answer to that question. No. I have been getting quite worked up about the GPUs that they
00:40:29 ◼ ► put into the A17 Pro. I'm very intrigued to see realistically what this phone can do. And I'm very
00:40:39 ◼ ► keen to see what the kind of gaming experience will be. I mean, I think I've been seeing some
00:40:44 ◼ ► headlines that Apple have been doing a bit more press about. Like, they think they have the most
00:40:48 ◼ ► powerful games console now with the iPhone 15 Pro. I'm not sure I believe that, but hey, we'll see.
00:40:55 ◼ ► But just in general, I am finding myself very, very intrigued about what this technology beefed
00:41:03 ◼ ► up, enhanced, and brought to the Mac is actually going to be like. I'm really, really intrigued by
00:41:11 ◼ ► it. Yeah. The sort of question, Zen question that I asked in my piece was, did Apple build CPU cores
00:41:23 ◼ ► to make the iPhone better at running console level games? Or does the iPhone run console level games
00:41:31 ◼ ► because Apple was set on building a better set of GPU cores? And the reason I phrase it that way
00:41:38 ◼ ► is because my guess is that this is more a by-product of Apple wanting to up its GPU game
00:41:49 ◼ ► across the board, yes, but especially on the Mac. That's my sort of gut feeling is like,
00:41:57 ◼ ► iPhone being a great game playing device and being able to play essentially console games
00:42:09 ◼ ► I guess is what I'm really saying. I'm not sure if you're Apple, you say, "Boy, the iPhone,
00:42:15 ◼ ► its GPU just sure, it blows away all other devices in its category, but you know what it could do
00:42:22 ◼ ► is blow away consoles. Let's do that. Let's make a GPU for that." Or if it's a broader issue of like,
00:42:28 ◼ ► this is where we're lagging, especially on the Mac side, the GPU is lagging, so we need to put
00:42:34 ◼ ► some extra effort into the GPU side of it. I don't know, I guess we'll find out, but the potential
00:42:40 ◼ ► here is huge. I'm very intrigued by it. This is the thing I'm going to have my eyes on most for
00:42:50 ◼ ► the next Macs, like the next Pro chips. What is this going to look like? Very intrigued.
00:43:00 ◼ ► One quick thing about the satellite I just wanted to mention again, I love that they keep kicking
00:43:05 ◼ ► the can down the road for the satellite stuff, and we just don't know what happens next year,
00:43:09 ◼ ► and this idea of, are they going to make people pay? What you don't want to be is in the sense of
00:43:15 ◼ ► like, "Oh, it'd be shame if you got trapped somewhere with your iPhone and you hadn't paid
00:43:19 ◼ ► us, so you better pay us." I can't see them doing that, but I think there needs to be a long-term
00:43:23 ◼ ► plan. They may not know, right? Because the number of people using the satellite services that have
00:43:33 ◼ ► because everybody who gets it, unless they're upgrading from last year, they're all going to
00:43:36 ◼ ► be new on the satellite system. Presumably, the volume is just going to go way up again.
00:43:43 ◼ ► Does the satellite network have the capacity to deal with that? I don't know. They may just be
00:43:52 ◼ ► waiting and seeing themselves, but I do wonder because they very specifically said, "Free for
00:43:57 ◼ ► the first two years last year," and so those phones will run out of two years next fall.
00:44:13 ◼ ► Has the color czar disappeared? Is the color czar being controlled by some sort of Rasputin-like
00:44:19 ◼ ► figure who is opposed to color on either moral or philosophical grounds? I don't know, but we here
00:44:26 ◼ ► at the Upgrade program have been somewhat critical of Apple's decisions regarding color in their
00:44:32 ◼ ► products over the years, but honestly, this event takes the cake. I don't get it. I don't get it.
00:44:44 ◼ ► I don't get the four shades of gray in the pro phones only because they've worn me down about
00:44:53 ◼ ► pro phones always being boring in all facets, and maybe there are limitations of titanium that are
00:44:59 ◼ ► part of this. The regular phones, everybody can have their own opinion about color. I think they're
00:45:08 ◼ ► super boring. I think they're all super boring, and I don't understand why you don't give people
00:45:15 ◼ ► choice because I know whenever we talk about color, we hear from people who are like, "I don't
00:45:19 ◼ ► want a colorful product." That's what they say in that tone of voice. We're not saying you don't get
00:45:25 ◼ ► to have what you want. We're saying that anybody who wants a colorful product has no choice because
00:45:32 ◼ ► Apple refuses. They have made the most muted set of colors for these iPhones in ages. They're just
00:45:40 ◼ ► dull. They're very pastel. They're very Easter egg colored and the kind you don't leave in for
00:45:47 ◼ ► very long, so it's just a trace. The camera bump is nice, but even that is a subtle thing that is
00:45:53 ◼ ► best appreciated close up. I just don't get it. I don't understand how the same company that made
00:46:01 ◼ ► those iMacs, the M1 iMacs, made these phones. I don't understand how the company that made the
00:46:10 ◼ ► iPhone XR in coral, how some of the iPhone 11s and 12s and 13s and 14s made these boring colors.
00:46:25 ◼ ► I don't get why there are no choices. Lauren's comment was literally, "There aren't any good
00:46:31 ◼ ► colors." I don't disagree with that. If you like them, that's fine, but again my point is
00:46:38 ◼ ► if you want something bright, don't buy an iPhone 15, essentially, because you're not going to get
00:46:46 ◼ ► it. Even the yellow is just the faintest yellow. It gives people some choice. They shouldn't all
00:46:54 ◼ ► scream. They shouldn't all be muted. I really don't know what they're doing. I'm very, very
00:47:03 ◼ ► disappointed in the decisions that they made here. We're going to keep talking about it because it's
00:47:10 ◼ ► the thing that frustrates us, but I just feel like I'm losing more and more hope over time. I had
00:47:15 ◼ ► the hope with the iMacs. The iMacs gave me hope. Don't get me started. There are all these rumors,
00:47:23 ◼ ► thanks to Mark Gurman, that there are new iMacs in the pipeline fairly soon. I'm now really
00:47:29 ◼ ► concerned that they're going to roll it out and it's going to be like, "It comes in midnight and
00:47:34 ◼ ► starlight. Good luck," and that that's it. That's my concern is that whatever brief moment in the
00:47:43 ◼ ► sun that they had for those M1 iMacs that they're clamping down and they're going to throw it back
00:47:47 ◼ ► in the dungeon and say, "Nope. Back to boring." Because that's where I am. I despair now. I
00:47:57 ◼ ► despair for the future of colorful products from Apple. I feel like whatever moment was happening,
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00:49:45 ◼ ► rated doctor today. That is Z-O-C-D-O-C.com/upgradefm. ZocDoc.com/upgradefm. Our thanks to ZocDoc for
00:49:58 ◼ ► Woo hoo hoo! Shipping edition! We have decided like what happens to the B-Tails after this season.
00:50:07 ◼ ► Maybe if there's more B-Tails we'll talk about them, but this is like, maybe this is the swan
00:50:11 ◼ ► song for the B-Tails because iOS 17, iPadOS 17, tvOS 17 and watchOS 10 are all out today.
00:50:27 ◼ ► Let's do it. That we have in some of them. So I want you to start actually because you publish,
00:50:31 ◼ ► so I say you publish your review on six colors of iPadOS and some of the overall features. Dan
00:50:39 ◼ ► publishes iOS 17 review and I've also put a link in the show notes to Federico's review over at
00:50:44 ◼ ► MacStories. Of course. There's a ton of great coverage and you can go and find them from your
00:50:53 ◼ ► Yeah, I would like you to talk about the one that you have on top because it's the iPad thing.
00:50:59 ◼ ► Sure. I'm just interested about this. Yeah, so the iPad got the lock screen. I mean it's very much
00:51:06 ◼ ► we're in this, we're in this situation where we have the iPad trailing a year behind the iPhone
00:51:14 ◼ ► in a lot of cases. Like a lot of iPad features are like, hey this is a thing that it finally got that
00:51:18 ◼ ► the iPhone didn't. And so the iPhone got last year. So lock screen. It finally came, the
00:51:27 ◼ ► customizable lock screen finally came to the iPad. So it's got, you know, you can put widgets on
00:51:33 ◼ ► there and you can actually put way more widgets than you could ever possibly put on an iPhone,
00:51:37 ◼ ► which is kind of funny. You can do a giant stack of widgets. They've got all the things that the
00:51:42 ◼ ► iPhone has where you can have it shuffle through pictures of your family or shuffle through
00:51:47 ◼ ► pictures of nature. And they've got this live photo feature that's really nice where they'll
00:51:52 ◼ ► suggest live photos to you that they've like algorithmically decided might be good. But they
00:51:57 ◼ ► can also take any of your live photos and they like process them to try and stabilize them and
00:52:02 ◼ ► have them be like in the form for the lock screen. And it's really cool. So you set a live photo as
00:52:10 ◼ ► your lock screen and when you lift up your iPad, open it up, whatever, the live photo animates
00:52:17 ◼ ► to the end of it in the lock screen and then you swipe up and then it could be your wallpaper and
00:52:22 ◼ ► all that. And I've had that all summer and I really like it. And yeah, the widgets are less
00:52:30 ◼ ► useful because lock screen widgets are less useful. And also there's the fact that, you know,
00:52:34 ◼ ► you're usually not dwelling on your lock screen. You're usually just flipping up and going to the
00:52:39 ◼ ► the regular home screen. But I really, really like the changes that they made to the lock screen.
00:52:47 ◼ ► They're just, it's so much more dynamic that you can shuffle between photos, that you can do all
00:52:51 ◼ ► those effects. It's all the stuff that the iPhone had last year and a little bit more. I really like
00:52:57 ◼ ► it. So this is interesting to me because we just have a different experience. I never think about
00:53:01 ◼ ► the lock screen of my iPad. So like I use an iPad Mini, right? Like for me, the lock screen is always
00:53:07 ◼ ► in my way to the thing that I want to do. So it's just maybe like, do you have your iPad like out
00:53:13 ◼ ► and visible a lot? Like do you see the lock screen? I don't. I usually have it. It's in a cover. But
00:53:20 ◼ ► what happens is when I wake it up, it animates the little lock screen and then I swipe it away. And
00:53:27 ◼ ► like the animation is, it's just kind of delightful. The widgets are less useful, although it does mean
00:53:32 ◼ ► that I can sort of do a tap for status like you can on an iPhone and tap for status and sort of
00:53:39 ◼ ► see what's going on. But that's not generally what I use. Life activities are there now too.
00:53:44 ◼ ► That's part of this. And like, again, I very rarely am seeing anything that's on my lock screen,
00:53:50 ◼ ► even notification center. I'm mostly just passing through on the way to the home screen, but
00:53:57 ◼ ► it is much more delightful. And the other thing to remember is when your iPad is unlocked and you're
00:54:03 ◼ ► at the home screen, if there are things you want to see like widgets or notifications, the entire
00:54:10 ◼ ► lock screen appears when you swipe down from the top. That's your notification center, but it's
00:54:15 ◼ ► also your lock screen. So all the widgets show up and everything when you swipe down. Even when
00:54:19 ◼ ► you're unlocked, you can see everything. Yeah. I mean, I would say I don't like the widgets on the
00:54:26 ◼ ► iPad that much. I like where they've done it. I like the little sidebar. It's kind of cool,
00:54:31 ◼ ► but it's just not incredibly useful. I mean, I think if there's an always on display on the iPad,
00:54:38 ◼ ► we'd be having a different conversation, I think. Sure. And I think the magnitude of how you use
00:54:45 ◼ ► the lock screen of your iPad versus your iPhone, it's just not at the same magnitude as the iPhone.
00:54:52 ◼ ► It's nice though. But I'll tell you that little effect. Apple, because the macOS stuff,
00:54:57 ◼ ► which we'll talk about when macOS comes out, is similar where Apple has done some real fit and
00:55:01 ◼ ► finish to say things like, "We have animations of things. Could we integrate those into places that
00:55:10 ◼ ► you see them that can provide some delight in using your device?" And the lock screen on the
00:55:16 ◼ ► iPad is a place that they've injected a little bit of delight. But we've spent, I will say this,
00:55:20 ◼ ► we have spent way more time on this compared to other features than it deserves. Fair enough.
00:55:26 ◼ ► So let's do that and let's go like Ram Rob in between the two of us. I love the new sticker
00:55:33 ◼ ► stuff. I love how you can create stickers from photos. For me, it's very good for memes between
00:55:40 ◼ ► friends and loved ones. Like you get a funny picture of someone, turn it into a sticker,
00:55:43 ◼ ► and then you can send it to them. I just think it's hilarious. I really like emoji. My top tip
00:55:49 ◼ ► for this, by the way, you can, I'd forgotten about this. Maybe everybody knows this, but I'd forgotten.
00:55:56 ◼ ► You can just, from the emoji keyboard in messages, you can just drag them out of stickers. You don't
00:56:01 ◼ ► need to add a sticker or anything, so it's very easy to do. I'm still super excited for this to
00:56:06 ◼ ► come to tap backs, like stickers as tap backs. That's coming later. We'll talk about some other
00:56:10 ◼ ► features that are coming later in a bit, but that's really great. So I'm a big fan of this
00:56:14 ◼ ► feature. I like the little effects and animations you can put on them. Yeah, it's really good.
00:56:19 ◼ ► Let's see. I've got, I just sent you a sticker, by the way. I hope you enjoy it. Let me take a look.
00:56:27 ◼ ► That's a good sticker. It's a sticker on my face. Thank you. It's a sticker reacting to,
00:56:38 ◼ ► It's good stuff. I like it. Okay, Stage Manager. Hey, remember Stage Manager that people were just
00:56:47 ◼ ► disappointed with last time? Remember that? Yep. They got it right. I mean, that's the short version
00:56:54 ◼ ► is I used to try Stage Manager, especially on an external display, but even just on the main
00:56:59 ◼ ► display with a keyboard and a trackpad attached and just say, no, no, like I couldn't stay in it
00:57:05 ◼ ► because I would try to move things around and they wouldn't go. And I'd be like, why am I even doing
00:57:10 ◼ ► this? And I would bail out. I used Stage Manager last year, almost entirely for my work in the
00:57:19 ◼ ► sense of experiencing Stage Manager and not for my work in the sense of doing work. That makes sense.
00:57:24 ◼ ► Like I use Stage Manager so I could say I used Stage Manager, but that was it. And they changed
00:57:32 ◼ ► all sorts of things. The big things are the grid that you have to, there's an invisible grid,
00:57:38 ◼ ► essentially, that you can place windows on. It's so small now that basically you can put a window
00:57:46 ◼ ► wherever you want. There are occasions where it moves a little bit. They're mostly about alignment.
00:57:52 ◼ ► I actually wonder if there's a real grid there or not, or if they're doing what they are with
00:57:55 ◼ ► widgets on the desktop on the Mac, which is not worrying about where you put a window, unless it's
00:58:00 ◼ ► in proximity to another window where it sort of lines it up a little bit for you. So like what I
00:58:06 ◼ ► found in Stage Manager is the only time it would move my windows at all is if I had a window behind
00:58:11 ◼ ► and then I was putting this window kind of in front of it partly, but the top of the window was
00:58:16 ◼ ► almost aligned with the window right next to it. It would sort of push it up and align it.
00:58:20 ◼ ► But only just tiny amounts. Basically you can put it anywhere. And my big complaint about Stage
00:58:27 ◼ ► Manager last year was I put windows in places that the system just... I fought the system all
00:58:33 ◼ ► the time, right? The system has made some decisions about how I want to act. And it's like, "No,
00:58:39 ◼ ► you can't do that." It's like, "I want to put a window in the center and then another window
00:58:43 ◼ ► behind it off to the left." And they're like, "No, those windows go side by side. When there's
00:58:46 ◼ ► two windows, they go side by side." It's like, "I don't want that." And it wouldn't do it. And now
00:58:51 ◼ ► the system is like, whatever you want. You put that window over there, put this other window over
00:58:56 ◼ ► here. They did a really great job. Their fear, I suspect, all along was that they were afraid people
00:59:02 ◼ ► were going to lose windows behind other windows, but they built this adorable little system where
00:59:06 ◼ ► the window, the behind window sticks out the edge of the window that's covering it. It's like,
00:59:12 ◼ ► "I'm here. I'm still here." And if you tap or click on it, it moves back to where it was. It moves
00:59:17 ◼ ► ahead of the window that was covering it and then goes back exactly where it was. It doesn't move.
00:59:22 ◼ ► It's just peeking out to let you know that it's there, which I think is a really great idea because
00:59:28 ◼ ► we know that a lot of less sophisticated users, the problem with a multi-window interface is they
00:59:34 ◼ ► lose windows. They're covered by other windows and they don't know they're there. And that's why we
00:59:38 ◼ ► have Exposé and all these things to try to solve this problem. And I actually kind of wonder if
00:59:44 ◼ ► we're going to see this on the Mac at some point, this idea of the poke out window that's like,
00:59:49 ◼ ► "I'm here too. I'm here too." Just enough for you to not lose it. I think they did a great job with
00:59:55 ◼ ► that. And then they added shift click in so many different places now, where if you want to add an
01:00:01 ◼ ► item to a space from the dock, from Spotlight, pretty much anywhere, you can shift click on it
01:00:09 ◼ ► and it just adds it in your space, which makes managing the stages that much easier and that much
01:00:16 ◼ ► more natural feeling. Combine that with the ability to minimize, which sends it to the sidebar,
01:00:21 ◼ ► or to close it, or to go full screen. It all starts to fit together in a way that the short version
01:00:28 ◼ ► TLDR stage manager was incredibly frustrating and I didn't want to use it last year. And this year,
01:00:33 ◼ ► it absolutely works and I could spend lots of time. I could work on an iPad attached to a 27
01:00:40 ◼ ► inch monitor now. I could actually do it. In fact, I did it for a couple of days a few weeks ago.
01:00:56 ◼ ► look like a lock screen, you know, like you can make a fun image and you can put the name there
01:01:00 ◼ ► and stuff like that. I like that you can do it for yourself. I like that you can share it with other
01:01:05 ◼ ► people and people can share theirs with you. I also like that you can set contact posters for
01:01:10 ◼ ► people as well. Like if you've got a particularly nice photo that you enjoy of a person like most of
01:01:15 ◼ ► my contact images for my friends and family are photos from our wedding. Even though people would
01:01:21 ◼ ► like to have different images for themselves, right? So like they'll share with you. I like
01:01:25 ◼ ► seeing the pictures of my loved ones at our wedding. And so I most of the time will keep
01:01:30 ◼ ► those but I do like that people can share them and sometimes I change them over. I do like the
01:01:34 ◼ ► contact posters feature. It's bringing something new to contacts who could have imagined.
01:01:38 ◼ ► Right. And makes the somebody's calling you kind of a little just a little more delightful, right?
01:01:44 ◼ ► I feel like somebody went through the iOS and iPadOS interfaces and said, and there are no
01:01:50 ◼ ► contact posters on the iPadOS by the way, that'll be next year, right? And said, we've got all these
01:01:55 ◼ ► photos of people and we've got like, can we make these nicer? The contact posters are literally
01:01:59 ◼ ► like the lock screen taken and applied to contact posters. That's what it is. They use the same
01:02:06 ◼ ► technology that's in those custom lock screens. And it's such a good idea because they're like,
01:02:10 ◼ ► hey, what if we made this thing nicer instead of it being like, because the contact stuff comes
01:02:15 ◼ ► from an era, I feel like where it was like, oh boy, pictures. Wow. We can't really load those
01:02:20 ◼ ► pictures. There's a lot of pictures and they're big and we can't really load them. And can we do
01:02:24 ◼ ► it like a little square that has a person in it? And can we leave it at that? And like it was from
01:02:28 ◼ ► an earlier era and now we live in an era where it's like, sure, we'll have thousands and tens of
01:02:35 ◼ ► thousands of photos and they'll have animations in them. And we'll be able to detect the outlines
01:02:40 ◼ ► of them and like, yeah, we live in that era now, enrich it, make it nicer, make it more delightful
01:02:46 ◼ ► and they have all over the place. Let's see what else. Health app on the iPad. I know you've used
01:02:54 ◼ ► some of the new health features on the health app. I just really liked that the health app is
01:02:59 ◼ ► on the iPad so that I can take all my data about my activity and workouts and stuff like that.
01:03:04 ◼ ► And I've said before, I am far more likely to be using my iPad than my iPhone when I think about
01:03:10 ◼ ► like, oh yeah, I want to check in about that and I realized that I can't get to my own health data,
01:03:15 ◼ ► even though I'm wearing my Apple Watch at the time, right? Because it's just like, no, no, no,
01:03:19 ◼ ► that goes on your iPhone. And they built a system where you can now sync, choose to sync,
01:03:24 ◼ ► you have to choose and approve it to sync your health data to other devices as well. And so you
01:03:31 ◼ ► get these nice big, there's like a sidebar now and you get these nice big charts and graphs and stuff
01:03:36 ◼ ► in on the iPad, which is great. I have yet to check out the health app on the iPad. I forgot
01:03:41 ◼ ► that it existed, but I like that you like it. It's new. Yeah. It's new. But you, you tried some of
01:03:47 ◼ ► the other stuff out, right? Like they have the mood, emotion kind of tracking. Yeah. Yeah. I
01:03:53 ◼ ► spoke about this a bit on context. I think that it is a very good first try for this. I hope that
01:03:59 ◼ ► they add a bit more. Um, I think that the, the UI is really good. The reminders are really good,
01:04:06 ◼ ► but I think it's lacking a little bit on allowing you to add simple contacts, contexts to some of
01:04:12 ◼ ► the prompts. So like, you know, you say you might be stressed and you can kind of talk about what's
01:04:17 ◼ ► making you stressed and why it's making you feel that way. They have little buttons that you can
01:04:21 ◼ ► press to kind of like, Oh, I'm upset about this, but I didn't feel like there were enough,
01:04:26 ◼ ► enough options. Like the one that I spoke about on call Texas, I was stressed about something.
01:04:31 ◼ ► We have some improvement works done on the home and it wasn't going very well. And I, what I
01:04:37 ◼ ► wanted to say was that like, you know, you could say stressed and feeling anxious and it's like,
01:04:41 ◼ ► what is making you feel that way? And there was nothing for home, for example, like it was,
01:04:47 ◼ ► they were like very, very, like, I feel like way too specific and you could write something of your
01:04:52 ◼ ► own, but only after you'd chosen one of the options. And so I felt like there were barriers
01:04:57 ◼ ► to me being able to adequately talk about what was making me feel a certain way. So I would like to
01:05:04 ◼ ► see them do more in that department, uh, in the future. But like, I think as a, as a first step,
01:05:14 ◼ ► It's good. Um, so is it me again now? Yes. And just co-opt one standby. Standby is probably my
01:05:21 ◼ ► favorite feature of iOS 17. Um, I love that I can put my phone on a charger on my desk and now I can
01:05:28 ◼ ► get like information from it. I just think it's so cool. There are so many apps that are being
01:05:32 ◼ ► updated with some really nice, uh, standby widgets. And so I can get, you know, my next
01:05:38 ◼ ► calendar event. I can see what time is running. Um, and I can see photos from, you know, like
01:05:43 ◼ ► albums and stuff or yeah, like widgetsmith. I have some widgetsmith ones in there so I can get some
01:05:48 ◼ ► like photos running from my albums. I just think it's fantastic. Like I really, really love standby.
01:05:53 ◼ ► Um, and it's that alone has made me a MagSafe charging person because it's just so awesome,
01:05:59 ◼ ► so convenient. I'm a huge fan of it. I love it. Yeah. I think it's really good. I keep running.
01:06:05 ◼ ► I'm withholding judgment a little bit because it's been in the beta period and also, you know,
01:06:10 ◼ ► the apps that are using keep shifting and I can't decide whether that's because the apps are in beta
01:06:15 ◼ ► as well and they're getting updated and test flight and things like that. My frustration with it is
01:06:20 ◼ ► mostly been I pick widgets and I turn off all the suggestions and everything. And then I come back
01:06:25 ◼ ► later and the widget that I had in there is gone and it's been replaced by some random other widget.
01:06:30 ◼ ► Oh, that's weird. I have not had that problem. I hate it. I hate it. I don't know what's,
01:06:35 ◼ ► I don't know what's going on there. Yeah. There was a moment where I had a, uh, I had a time widget,
01:06:39 ◼ ► a clock widget, and suddenly it was, uh, it was heads or tails from Peacock from dice by Peacock.
01:06:45 ◼ ► And so I walked in instead of the time it said tails. Like what? Tails clock. Never know when
01:06:54 ◼ ► you're going to need to flip a coin and I can't. So I have to use dice by Peacock to do it. So,
01:06:59 ◼ ► uh, I, that is a bug that has bugged me, but I like the idea. I I'm also intrigued by the idea
01:07:05 ◼ ► of standby since it will do like, uh, media playback and stuff like that. Standby as a,
01:07:11 ◼ ► I think you could potentially use like in a car if you don't have car play. Um, if you, if you have
01:07:16 ◼ ► it sideways and plugged in, it doesn't actually have to use MagSafe. I don't think, I think it
01:07:20 ◼ ► just needs to be plugged in. You could actually have it as like a little media dashboard. I
01:07:23 ◼ ► believe if I'm remembering correctly from Federico's review that he tried to do this and it did not
01:07:29 ◼ ► work. Interesting. When in the movement it would shut off standby. Oh, the movement shuts it off.
01:07:36 ◼ ► That is fascinating. Well, I think that one of the, on my to-do list for Apple is I feel like,
01:07:43 ◼ ► I know Apple wants every car to have car play, but not every car does have car play. And of course,
01:07:48 ◼ ► we know the GM is not planning on having car play on any of their future electric cars. I wonder,
01:07:53 ◼ ► like they're, they, it feels very close to me to them having essentially like a car interface
01:07:59 ◼ ► on the iPhone for people who don't have a car play. Like maps already does it. Standby kind of,
01:08:06 ◼ ► those widgets are kind of in the ballpark as well. I just wonder if there might be a way for them to
01:08:11 ◼ ► do something that was either like car play or actually car play on an iPhone. Uh, if you're in
01:08:17 ◼ ► a car without car play, but anyway, uh, I like standby. I think it's good. I have a, I have the
01:08:21 ◼ ► Belkin charger, um, that also has the little AirPods charger on the bottom of it and it's
01:08:26 ◼ ► pretty cool. And it's pretty cute. I haven't decided where it's going to live long-term
01:08:35 ◼ ► sort of as a clock in there. Um, I don't know about putting it on my desk or not. I might do
01:08:41 ◼ ► that, but, um, it's a great feature. It's a really cool use of, this is another example of Apple just
01:08:47 ◼ ► using all that widget technology, right? The, the, uh, they built this new generation of widgets.
01:08:52 ◼ ► They continue to update it. This whole OS generation has the, the interactive widgets as
01:08:57 ◼ ► well. And it's a great example of Apple just sort of like taking, building this one technology and
01:09:02 ◼ ► then exploding it into all these different places on all of its platforms. It's very good.
01:09:06 ◼ ► Speaking of which interactive widgets in general, I love them. I feel like this is something that
01:09:12 ◼ ► we're going to see a lot more of over the next couple of weeks. That on a note, actually, like
01:09:16 ◼ ► we're talking about a lot of things today, but over the next few weeks, there will be more third
01:09:21 ◼ ► party apps that are coming out. Like iOS, I don't even know if it's out at the time we're recording
01:09:25 ◼ ► this, but it is coming out today. Um, I think it may have started rolling out already, but
01:09:30 ◼ ► so we'll be covering over the next few weeks, some stuff that we like, but from an interactive widget
01:09:34 ◼ ► perspective, the home widget, I loved being able to turn lights on and off. Timery is fantastic.
01:09:40 ◼ ► Joe has just done an incredible job. Like one of my favorite things that Joe has done is the ability
01:09:45 ◼ ► to have like scrollable information inside of a widget. It's like, if you have a bunch of saved
01:09:51 ◼ ► timers, you can have a backwards and forwards button to page through all of your timers.
01:09:55 ◼ ► Widget Smith has just got some wild ones. Underscore has built CoverFlow as a music widget,
01:10:02 ◼ ► which is wild. But my favorite is you can, one of the widgets that I always really like is a
01:10:07 ◼ ► countdown timer. So you can have like a countdown to a certain event and you could put an image
01:10:11 ◼ ► behind that countdown timer. Well now with the countdown timer widget and a bunch of others,
01:10:16 ◼ ► you can hide information behind the widget. So I have like an image right now of last year's
01:10:20 ◼ ► podcast is on my home screen. And when I tap it, it slides up and I get the countdown until the
01:10:26 ◼ ► podcast is on and I'm going to do that for vacations too. So I can have an image of a place
01:10:30 ◼ ► where I'm going on holiday. I can tap it. The image of the thing slides up and it's underneath
01:10:35 ◼ ► underscore as you can imagine, has built some truly incredible things in Widget Smith. Um,
01:10:40 ◼ ► and Fantastic Al as well. I've been using that one, but I don't know if it's out yet. So I'm
01:10:45 ◼ ► gonna talk about it too much. So what strikes me about this, the interactive widget thing,
01:10:59 ◼ ► there are lots of interactions you can do with apps that you don't need to do in the app.
01:11:04 ◼ ► Right. I like this. I like this idea that maybe your home screen is no longer a place where you
01:11:13 ◼ ► just launch apps or launch apps and look at information, but it's actually a place where you
01:11:19 ◼ ► do things and that the full on app for some apps, not all apps are appropriate for this,
01:11:25 ◼ ► but like for some apps that the full on app itself is sort of like the place you go when you really
01:11:34 ◼ ► have to get into it, but that you don't have to go there for a whole class of particular actions.
01:11:39 ◼ ► And I just, I think that's fascinating because before it was always like, like, look, you launch
01:11:45 ◼ ► apps and then you use the apps and then you leave the apps. And now Apple sort of saying, no,
01:11:48 ◼ ► you know, you have little bits of the apps that are just out here and you could, you could put,
01:11:53 ◼ ► you know, on a page on your iPhone home screen, you can put three widgets and swipe there and
01:11:59 ◼ ► then be like, okay, I'm going to tap this thing and I'm going to tap that thing. And I'm going to,
01:12:02 ◼ ► you know, I'm done with a task, so I'm going to tap done on reminders and then tap to a new,
01:12:09 ◼ ► you know, tap off or to a new thing on Timery. And then you move on and like, you never open
01:12:14 ◼ ► those apps, but you checked off your reminder or to do or whatever app you're using. And you also
01:12:30 ◼ ► I would imagine you might, you know, it might be very rare that you need to go in because
01:12:40 ◼ ► The fantastic L one is out and like effectively on one of the widgets, the widget type that I use,
01:12:50 ◼ ► one thing that I was going to know is what day is this date? So I could see that. So I can see that,
01:12:59 ◼ ► but it also shows you a preview of the events that you have on those days. So it's like,
01:13:03 ◼ ► that is something that I opened the app for a lot that I now don't need to open the app for.
01:13:07 ◼ ► So yeah, I'm really excited to see more of these roll out over the next couple of weeks,
01:13:12 ◼ ► but you know, I expect my home screens are going to change all over again because of interactive
01:13:17 ◼ ► widgets. Um, let me, let me do a couple real quick. Um, proximity sharing. I want to mention
01:13:25 ◼ ► because this is the other shoe dropping about Apple turning off the ability to accept an air,
01:13:31 ◼ ► an air drop from anyone, right? You used to be able to be, you know, and it was dangerous,
01:13:37 ◼ ► but you could say, Oh yes, except an air drop from anyone. And they changed it. And there was
01:13:41 ◼ ► all that talk about how China wanted them to change it and all of that. This is the other
01:13:45 ◼ ► shoe dropping there because what this is saying is if you're in a situation where there's somebody
01:13:51 ◼ ► who's not in your contacts, you have not approved them, but they want to share something with you
01:14:01 ◼ ► they're looking for your approval. This is how you have a consensual air drop. So you put them
01:14:08 ◼ ► together and then there's a little pulsating animation and you say, all right, now I'm going
01:14:14 ◼ ► to share this thing with you. And it's, I really think this is smart. This is the idea. You're not
01:14:20 ◼ ► in my contacts. I can't drop this to you directly, but we agree. You're going to send me that picture
01:14:26 ◼ ► and we essentially tap phones. And then the picture gets sent really smart. I like it a lot.
01:14:32 ◼ ► I think it's a good way of also taking software Chrome, even if you're in the context, taking
01:14:40 ◼ ► software Chrome and taking many taps out of the process. You know, if, if I take a picture and my
01:14:46 ◼ ► mom, you know, I'm visiting my mom and she's like, Oh, can I have that picture right now? I can do
01:14:51 ◼ ► that. And it just pops up with her. But if she takes a picture and wants to send it to me, it's
01:14:57 ◼ ► a whole thing, right? Where she texts it to me, but I really want the airdrop version and all that.
01:15:02 ◼ ► Well with this, you just bring your phones together and then it says, yeah, okay, I'll send
01:15:08 ◼ ► that. It's just, it's a really nice, it's really well done. There's maybe a little bit of a learning
01:15:13 ◼ ► curve, but like the idea that you use your interface is how you place your phone in the
01:15:17 ◼ ► real world. I like that a lot. I think that's really good. And then I want to mention your
01:15:24 ◼ ► favorite TVOS. My favorite. I think continuity camera support in TVOS is it points at potentially
01:15:35 ◼ ► future Apple products, but I think it's a game changer. The idea that you can put a camera on
01:15:41 ◼ ► a table or on top of your TV, like an iPhone on your table or on your top of your TV, and then
01:15:47 ◼ ► just sit in front of the TV and do a family chat with other people using FaceTime or whatever.
01:15:51 ◼ ► Like it's such a good idea. And the execution is so good. It's using your iPhone back camera
01:15:58 ◼ ► to do center stage and zoom in on you. I used this a few times over the summer. It's really,
01:16:06 ◼ ► really impressive. And what it makes me want of course, is a device where there's an integrated
01:16:12 ◼ ► camera or there's a little continuity camera you can leave permanently somewhere. But using your
01:16:19 ◼ ► iPhone works okay. I use the same Belkin adapter that I, or a little mount that I can put on top
01:16:25 ◼ ► of my studio display. It goes on top of my TV too. It looks so good. Sounds good. Like it's really
01:16:33 ◼ ► good. I have been using FaceTime, but I can't wait to use this with something like Zoom, where we do
01:16:38 ◼ ► a family Zoom every other week. And we do it in the living room, but we just have like an iPad or
01:16:45 ◼ ► a MacBook sitting on the table and the angle isn't very good. And just put it on the TV. Such a great
01:16:52 ◼ ► idea. So I really like how they've executed it. It looks really good. But it also makes me wonder,
01:16:59 ◼ ► do they have a broader strategy here down the road? Because they're building the pieces, but
01:17:04 ◼ ► even as it is today, you got to have an Apple TV 4K and it's got to be one of the two most
01:17:09 ◼ ► recent versions, I think, not the first version. So there's some limitations, but boy, it's really
01:17:14 ◼ ► good. I'm very impressed. I like the new auto-correct. I think it's very effective. I think
01:17:20 ◼ ► it's doing a really good job. I've been trying out some of the AirPods stuff. The conversational
01:17:27 ◼ ► awareness feature is really interesting where you can be listening to audio or something and you
01:17:33 ◼ ► start talking and it will leave a turn off or volume down. It will take you off of noise
01:17:38 ◼ ► cancellation. And I think it's really cool. The one issue I've had right now is if I'm listening
01:17:43 ◼ ► to something on my AirPods while I'm brushing my teeth, sometimes it activates conversational
01:17:49 ◼ ► awareness, which is not what I'm looking for in that moment. And I'm really intrigued about what
01:17:57 ◼ ► it is exactly that is making it do that. My experience with it is that when I'm walking
01:18:03 ◼ ► the dog, I have to give her feedback. And every time I tell something to the dog, it just drops me
01:18:08 ◼ ► down because it thinks, "Oh, you're having a conversation." It's like, "I'm not. It's just
01:18:14 ◼ ► my voice." And I'm hoping that maybe a future version of this is a little more aware of the
01:18:20 ◼ ► sounds. It's not just me, but that there's another voice happening, that there's interaction happening.
01:18:27 ◼ ► Because I heard somebody else said when they sing along with the music, it dims the music.
01:18:33 ◼ ► It's like, "No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that." So I turned it off. Adaptive audio is one of those
01:18:38 ◼ ► things. Well, adapted audio I love. That's a new feature. I'm not sure about adaptive audio yet.
01:18:57 ◼ ► and yet it's suppressing stuff that is just kind of like a broadband tone. It's just sort of like
01:19:05 ◼ ► always there. So it's not noise canceling. And on a plane, I'll use noise canceling. But when
01:19:09 ◼ ► I'm running, I use adaptive audio when I like it. Conversational awareness I turned off because I'm
01:19:15 ◼ ► talking to the dog when I'm walking the dog. And it worked great on an airplane when I was talking
01:19:19 ◼ ► to the flight attendant or talking to my family. It was great. And I could turn it on for that.
01:19:23 ◼ ► But mostly I'm walking the dog all the time. I'm always walking the dog, and I have to give her
01:19:59 ◼ ► what I'm finding is when I'm out in the street, I have the feeling of noise cancellation. You
01:20:08 ◼ ► to it. I feel like that's happening more than I want. Like I'm feeling that I'm under noise
01:20:14 ◼ ► cancellation, even though I can hear things more, but it's doing like a little mixture of it.
01:20:22 ◼ ► Like I said, I think what it's doing is it's taking like... So I live by a freeway, right?
01:20:27 ◼ ► So there's a little background hiss of the freeway, you know, all the time. It takes that out
01:20:31 ◼ ► because that's just an unchanging background sound. An unchanging kind of like air sound.
01:20:44 ◼ ► in transparency mode before. So all it's doing is it's a little nicer transparency mode.
01:20:54 ◼ ► Maybe it's working for me in certain scenarios and I'm just not noticing it. And then great,
01:20:58 ◼ ► that's great. But where I notice it is that I'm listening to something at a perfectly good volume
01:21:05 ◼ ► and then it suddenly just lowers the volume a lot. And I'm like, what are you doing? Like I'm
01:21:09 ◼ ► listening... It happens to me when I'm about to go out the door with the dog and I'm listening to a
01:21:13 ◼ ► podcast and I'm getting the leash and I'm getting ready to go. And then my podcast gets real quiet
01:21:22 ◼ ► and I roll my eyes and I make the podcast louder so I can hear it. And like if that's all I'm
01:21:28 ◼ ► noticing, I just have to turn it off because it's not working right. It's not doing it right.
01:21:37 ◼ ► - Yeah. Speaking of my dog, pets are finally in photos. So it's people and pets now everywhere.
01:21:43 ◼ ► Instead of just pets. That was my big challenge for updating my book about the photos app.
01:21:50 ◼ ► Every reference to people is now people and pets, but it works and it works pretty well.
01:21:55 ◼ ► It's not perfect, but then the people detection isn't perfect either. But they obviously have
01:21:59 ◼ ► some sort of like animal algorithm for dogs and cats that try to identify them and differentiate
01:22:06 ◼ ► them. And it does pretty well. So I have a tortoiseshell cat who's got the sort of orange
01:22:17 ◼ ► and black coloring and a model sort of split face modeling kind of thing going on orange on one side,
01:22:23 ◼ ► black on the other. And there was a cat that we met several times in our neighborhood many years
01:22:30 ◼ ► ago who is the same kind of cat. And that cat showed up in the collection for my cat. And I mean,
01:22:37 ◼ ► you just click and you say, this is not that cat. And then they go away. I thought that was
01:22:41 ◼ ► interesting. Whereas a very similar cat showed up. However, I had two black cats and they are
01:22:50 ◼ ► black cats, right? They're slightly different, right? They're different, but it did a really
01:22:55 ◼ ► good job of differentiating between them. Now I suspect one of the things that their algorithm
01:23:01 ◼ ► is doing is looking at time, right? I suspect that part of what they're doing is saying, well,
01:23:07 ◼ ► these cats are not quite the same. And all of this cluster of the cat that looks kind of like this
01:23:16 ◼ ► is in this five-year span. And all of the cluster of the cat that looks kind of like this is in this
01:23:21 ◼ ► 10-year span. I think these are different cats, right? I think that it's doing some of that too,
01:23:32 ◼ ► Tye or Rocket? And it's like, oh, that's Rocket. But I have to pause. And so the fact that Apple's
01:23:37 ◼ ► algorithm has done a serviceable job on taking similar looking pets and differentiating them.
01:23:44 ◼ ► And it is great to be able to just click on a dog and say, here are all the pictures of your dog,
01:23:50 ◼ ► which before you had to search for dog, and then you get your dog and other people's dogs and
01:23:58 ◼ ► So there are a selection of features coming later to iOS 17, some small, some big. I feel like this
01:24:05 ◼ ► year there's maybe a bunch more Bigfoot features than there have been before. So I mentioned
01:24:09 ◼ ► sticker tapbacks. The airdrop feature where you can walk away from someone from the proximity
01:24:19 ◼ ► playlist collaboration features are coming later. The PDF form detection is coming later and the
01:24:36 ◼ ► interface will look like, how it'll work and all of that. But I mean, we may get there pretty soon
01:24:41 ◼ ► because sometimes what happens if you're living the beta life, and this is why we might be doing
01:24:49 ◼ ► - You live the beta life. They put out a new beta when they ship the old one and then they do the beta, the next one, and all those features get imported that are not ready yet. That happens sometimes.
01:24:56 ◼ ► - I might stay on the beta train this time around, which I usually don't, but there's a bunch of stuff
01:25:01 ◼ ► in there that I want to try as soon as it becomes available. Can I give you some quick thoughts on
01:25:05 ◼ ► watchOS 10? I installed the release candidate, so I've only been using it for a few days. So
01:25:15 ◼ ► what that used to do for me was show me a bunch of pinned applications that I wanted to be able to use.
01:25:22 ◼ ► That has gone away, that feature completely. The side button now brings up control center, which is
01:25:27 ◼ ► fine, but there's no way for me to get to a list of applications easily. I have five apps that
01:25:33 ◼ ► I would use a lot and you just can't get to them. There is still a recently used multitasking view
01:25:40 ◼ ► when you double tap the crown. I just want to be able to pin apps there. Just let me do that,
01:25:45 ◼ ► but they don't let me do that. I like the widgets a lot. I like that there's that widget that lets
01:25:57 ◼ ► add more than one of those. Why can't I have two of those widgets that let me have six little
01:26:02 ◼ ► complications? I find that really weird. There are way too many ways to get to widgets. You can get
01:26:09 ◼ ► to widgets for two or three different actions on this thing and I just think it's too much.
01:26:14 ◼ ► It's unnecessary to me to have widgets access in so many ways. I hope that it works out in the long
01:26:22 ◼ ► run. I enjoy the UI of the widgets. I like the way that they look. The apps that I care most about,
01:26:30 ◼ ► widget wise, I do already have complications for them, so I hope that this functionality
01:26:35 ◼ ► gets adopted more widely. I did get on a watch app that I would not have a complication for,
01:26:42 ◼ ► that does have a widget and I've been using it over the last few days and it's awesome.
01:26:45 ◼ ► I can't talk about it yet, but I'm very happy that it's there. I think when this app becomes
01:26:49 ◼ ► available, people will know what I'm talking about. I don't understand why on the widget screen,
01:26:55 ◼ ► the date and the clock are there. Why are they there? Why are the date and clock there? I just
01:27:00 ◼ ► came from a watch face. I don't need another watch face and they take up too much space.
01:27:05 ◼ ► I could have two or three widgets immediately. Why do I need this huge date and clock? I don't
01:27:17 ◼ ► Why is this there? There's a little mini watch face and then scrollable widgets, but it's like,
01:27:21 ◼ ► I was just on a watch face that has the time because all the watch faces have the time and
01:27:25 ◼ ► the date. Every time I want to get to my widgets now, it's always two swipes. I swipe up and I have
01:27:32 ◼ ► to swipe up again to be able to get to anything other than the first one. I'm not sure about
01:27:39 ◼ ► the smart stack because it's supposed to move around to what is active. For example, right now,
01:27:46 ◼ ► I have a timer widget running. Now that should be on the top because that is an active thing that is
01:27:51 ◼ ► occurring. I find that weird, but it's not there. I really like the way it looks. I like the widgets.
01:27:59 ◼ ► I find the widgets helpful and useful. I like the design of widgets and it is a better way of doing
01:28:11 ◼ ► I never remember to use the widgets on watchOS 10. I never remember. I have used them almost not
01:28:17 ◼ ► at all. I need to revisit them and see if I can make them more useful, but I will agree.
01:28:21 ◼ ► When I do use it, I just roll my eyes because I get that. I'm immediately given another time.
01:28:26 ◼ ► I've seen the time. I was just at the time. Why are you showing me the time again and not my widgets,
01:28:32 ◼ ► which is why I'm here? I don't get it. I need to try that more. Also, the apps that I use,
01:28:44 ◼ ► Will Barron I think in general, there's a lot more watch apps. I like the overall design of the new
01:28:52 ◼ ► Will Barron Really good. Really fresh. Both this and just the general watch UI makes me really
01:28:57 ◼ ► look forward to getting my Ultra. I feel like notifications, for example, it feels like it
01:29:02 ◼ ► wants a bigger watch. The new design of the way a lot of this stuff works. I like the way that
01:29:08 ◼ ► the swipe typing keyboard feels more reliable. I don't know if they're using the new autocorrect
01:29:13 ◼ ► here with the transformer model. If they are, it would be interesting because swipe typing on
01:29:18 ◼ ► iOS does not use the transformer model. If you swipe type, it doesn't make those suggestions.
01:29:24 ◼ ► They're only if you're like typing out the letters as you go. So I would say I like watchOS 10. I
01:29:30 ◼ ► like the widgets and stuff, but I think there is more refinement needed on that view. And I hope
01:29:37 ◼ ► that I continue to see more really good updates because there's a bunch there and watch updates
01:29:43 ◼ ► that I've seen so far. And I hope that that continues because they're really cool. Yeah.
01:30:00 ◼ ► - You just asked me a question about, let's go back. You asked me the question. I said,
01:30:06 ◼ ► - Then it's time for Ask Upgrade. Corey asks, for the record, when will the Ask Upgrade lasers
01:30:32 ◼ ► - Yeah, no, it's very bad for the earth. But again, they're lasers. They're bad for the earth.
01:31:07 ◼ ► we're not working toward it. It might happen sometime, but we're not actually working toward
01:31:18 ◼ ► - Right. If we buy lasers and then somebody points out that those lasers that you bought,
01:31:32 ◼ ► - It's a laser color. It's the color a laser is, is red, right? The green laser, I don't know.
01:31:37 ◼ ► That's like a lightsaber or something. It's not the same. So anyway, they're not green.
01:31:56 ◼ ► accidentally, they will be carbon neutral, but in the meantime, they are hurting the earth
01:32:04 ◼ ► - And Eric asks, "Is the new iPhone 15 Pro having USB 3? Could the fastest way to transfer to your
01:32:10 ◼ ► new iPhone be from a backup from your Mac? Understand you would need the correct cable,
01:32:16 ◼ ► of course. Do you have plans for how you're going to set up your new phones on Friday?"
01:32:29 ◼ ► there's a good question though. I don't know why it would be faster because you would have to go
01:32:36 ◼ ► from, you would have to go from your one device to the Mac and then the Mac to the other device
01:32:40 ◼ ► and that you're not going to get any savings there. So I think the fastest way to do it is to
01:32:52 ◼ ► - I don't remember. I think last time I had a bad time with it, but I'm just going to give that a
01:32:56 ◼ ► go again. I think you're always rolling the dice as to whether the transfer is going to be good or
01:33:00 ◼ ► not. And next week, we'll talk about whether it was good or not. If I've done it by then,
01:33:18 ◼ ► - We sure are. If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on a future episode,
01:33:32 ◼ ► Find out more about our work for St. Jude throughout all of September, which is childhood
01:33:37 ◼ ► cancer awareness month. You can donate, you can sign up to fundraise and join us for the podcast
01:33:41 ◼ ► with on on Friday, September 22nd. You can check out Jason's work at sixcolors.com. You'll find
01:33:47 ◼ ► lots of coverage of the new OS is there. You can hear Jason on his podcast here and on the
01:33:53 ◼ ► incomparable. You can listen to my shows on Relay FM and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.
01:33:58 ◼ ► We're on Mastodon. Jason is @jsnell on zeppelin.flights. Mike is @imike on mike.social.
01:34:04 ◼ ► You can also find the show on Mastodon as upgrade@relayfm.social. You'll find video clips
01:34:09 ◼ ► of the show there and also on our video platforms, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, where we are @upgraderelay
01:34:22 ◼ ► as supporters of Upgrade Plus. You can get longer ad-free versions of the show each and every week.
01:34:27 ◼ ► Today, I'm going to tell an Upgrade Plus, Jason, about my bananas visit trip. Like, sorry, my trip.