0:00:00Well, we finally got space black Christina.
0:00:02I, I mean, I'm, I'm both really excited and I'm also very upset for my wallet
0:00:07because I've made comments on Twitter and Mastodon I was like, if they come out
0:00:11with another black laptop, I'm going to buy it no matter what.
0:00:15And now I feel compelled even though my two year old 14 inch in one max with
0:00:2164 gigs of Ram has an abysmal resale value and no real need to upgrade.
0:00:27Wait.
0:00:29Wait, I have the exact same machine.
0:00:31I have an M one 14 inch MacBook pro that is maxed out at 64 gigs of Ram,
0:00:38which now sounds terribly piddly.
0:00:41Right.
0:00:42And you're saying we get, we we're going to get terrible resale value for it.
0:00:46Is that what you're saying?
0:00:47Yes.
0:00:48Yes.
0:00:48Yeah.
0:00:49So, so Apple is offering a whopping $1,300 for trade-in and I'm, I'm guessing
0:00:54that I can probably maybe max out at 16, 17 and then the 128 gigabyte model.
0:01:00With tax and Apple care and tax in my state is 10% is six grand.
0:01:05So congratulations, Apple.
0:01:07You're probably going to get a ton of money out of me for a fricking color.
0:01:11You, you, you have my number.
0:01:12So I never had to leave the Northeast corridor.
0:01:18I'm not, it is very strange.
0:01:21I had a meta level here.
0:01:23I'm not quite sure what the rules are.
0:01:25There's off the record and I know what that means.
0:01:27And it's just sort of like a friendly handshake that we're not supposed to
0:01:32talk about the details of it, but a bunch of media people were invited to New York
0:01:36this morning.
0:01:37Yeah.
0:01:38So I do have literal actual hands-on experience with these devices, which is
0:01:44important when we get to the fingerprint stuff, but they're like, but we want to
0:01:48focus on the news, so don't talk about the venue and say, all right, all right.
0:01:51You're supposed to, I forget, they have like a suggested phrasing.
0:01:54It's like, I've, I've had early access to something, something, blah, blah, blah.
0:01:59But was it at the addition?
0:02:02Uh, no.
0:02:03Okay.
0:02:04It was at the usual place, but we're not supposed to talk about, but I will say
0:02:10this, I came back and I checked with my son who's now a sophomore in college,
0:02:15has a touch bar M one Mac pro.
0:02:20And I'm like, would you like a hand me down M one?
0:02:24No, that this is the thing he's going to get a huge upgrade because he'll be able
0:02:29to use it with more than one monitor.
0:02:30He'll have like actual Ram in it.
0:02:32Like it'll actually perform well.
0:02:34That's the, that's the interesting thing.
0:02:37Now at your briefing that we're not supposed to talk about at the usual place
0:02:40in the lower East side, we're where, yeah, I know that they met with some people
0:02:44and they're having briefings tomorrow as well, I guess Tuesday, from what I
0:02:48understand as well.
0:02:49I'm not beholden to any of these rules so I can talk about it.
0:02:51Did they confirm that the 13 inch touch bar is dead?
0:02:55The, the, the complete piece of shit garbage machine that we all hated.
0:02:58Is that, is that dead now?
0:03:00Yes, but it was in, in the most awkward way possible, which is to me very funny
0:03:08because, and I will say this too.
0:03:10They did not show us the video.
0:03:13That the broadcast video of the keynote beforehand.
0:03:17Instead, we got a sort of bespoke in-person keynote, which I'm not complaining
0:03:24because I got two presentations.
0:03:27I got an old fashioned live one live keynote slide presentation, and then got
0:03:33to watch this with everybody else from the comfort of my living room at 8 PM
0:03:36Eastern five Pacific, but they didn't mention it in the presentation.
0:03:42They didn't say this, that, that 13 inch touch bar thing is gone.
0:03:46But I did note when they said the new M three, no adjective, MacBook pro starts
0:03:55at 15 99, it put, I was like, I think this kills that machine that cursed, that
0:04:02cursed machine awful machine, but that cursed machine started at 12 99.
0:04:07And then it, in, in question, when they started taking questions from people,
0:04:11somebody else in the media asked, and I think they answered poorly.
0:04:17I'll answer the way they, that I think they should have answered, which is that
0:04:21machine is no longer for sale as of today.
0:04:23It was a good machine for these reasons, blah, blah, blah, and people loved it.
0:04:28But instead they answered by starting by talking about how great a machine that
0:04:34was and I thought, Oh God, Oh God, it's still here.
0:04:38Right.
0:04:39Right.
0:04:39And it's, it's, it's so dumb because you're right.
0:04:41They could have said this no longer for sale because you guys like you have a 15
0:04:45inch MacBook air and 13 inch MacBook air, which are superior in basically every way.
0:04:50Like for years, we've been talking about why that machine didn't need to exist.
0:04:54Granted, this is starting out with.
0:04:56We can talk about the fact that I think it's insulting that, that the base
0:05:00model still has eight gigs of RAM.
0:05:02Yes.
0:05:02Yes.
0:05:03You're, you're hitting key points that I want to bring up.
0:05:06That is, I would say the one of the very few, this is a very good news day for Mac fans.
0:05:13I think it is a super good overall, but as always, there's something we can find to
0:05:18complain about, I would say base models starting at eight.
0:05:22I I'll even forgive the 24 inch iMac, although given the way they make Apple
0:05:28Silicon, I guess if the base M three chip has eight gigabytes, they're going to put
0:05:35it in some of the laptops.
0:05:36I kind of feel though that should not be in a machine called MacBook pro.
0:05:40If it has the word pro in it at in 2023, there's absolutely no reason.
0:05:45Now, does that mean if they had followed your, your, and my advice.
0:05:51And they should not sell a MacBook pro with only eight gigabytes of Ram at the
0:05:57end of 2023, that the starting price would be higher again, now we're spending Tim
0:06:01Cook's money, but still that, that should not happen.
0:06:05Yeah.
0:06:05And look, Tim Cook has plenty of money.
0:06:07Like, like we can be, we can be honest about that.
0:06:11And it's also, I mean, we put them in a weird position, but I'm just, yeah,
0:06:15starting with eight gigabytes, especially $1,600.
0:06:18That's that feels egregious.
0:06:20Yeah.
0:06:20I friend of the show, friend of everybody's friend of the internet,
0:06:24Jason Snell was, I saw him today.
0:06:26He was here from California and we had lunch and I said to him as we were
0:06:30lunching, I was so glad that both he and I spent some finger energy last week
0:06:36complaining about the incoherence of the iPad lineup overall in the context of
0:06:43this new Apple pencil, which you and I don't have to talk about it is what it is.
0:06:47Now there's three pencils.
0:06:48Yeah.
0:06:49But now you've got this complicated conspiracy theorist, cork board,
0:06:55strings of yarn and thumb tacks all over the place to figure out which pencil.
0:07:02Uh, works with which iPad, but I'm glad we complained about the incoherence of the
0:07:07iPad lineup last week, because I feel like now we can praise Apple for the, in my
0:07:13opinion, complete coherence of the Mac book lineup.
0:07:17So that would be my number one takeaway of the day is now that the M three is
0:07:22here and the touch bar quote unquote Mac book pro is gone.
0:07:28It is very coherent.
0:07:30Nine 99, eight 99 for education.
0:07:33You, you get the old M one, which is old.
0:07:35Now it's three years old industrial design from the Intel era Mac book air.
0:07:40And yes, that is the worst Mac book you can buy, but it's pretty good.
0:07:45It's sub and everybody knows why it only has the M one and why it has the old
0:07:50industrial design, it is there to be lower, the lowest price Mac book fair.
0:07:55Then M two Mac book airs, which the integer two is less than three.
0:08:02So they're older than the pros.
0:08:05Right.
0:08:05And they're, they're very compelling machines.
0:08:08The 15 inch is only what five months old, four months old from WWDC.
0:08:13Very nice form factor, great performance, nice screens for consumer laptops.
0:08:20And they fill these price ranges up to around 1500 and then starting at 1600.
0:08:25Now there's the M three 14 inch Mac book pro and onward from there.
0:08:31And despite as everybody knows significant inflation worldwide over the last few
0:08:36years, the starting point for the ones with the 14 inch and the 16 inch are
0:08:43still for the ones with the M three pro chip and the only one with that are 16
0:08:49inch and up or 16 inch size prices stay the same 1999 for 14 inch and 24 99 for
0:08:5716 inch.
0:08:57So if anything, when you consider inflation prices have come down.
0:09:01Yeah.
0:09:02Which I mean is fair, I think, because look, we can, they, Apple can talk all
0:09:08they want about how much better these chips are than the past chips.
0:09:11But the fact of the matter is, is that typically prices do come down regardless
0:09:17of inflation, right?
0:09:18Like you get better yields, you're able to do this more.
0:09:21They're reusing the bulk of the chassis, the keyboard the, the heating pipes.
0:09:26I mean, the chips are new, but everything else is something that they already have
0:09:29had in there.
0:09:30What should we call it?
0:09:31Not supply chain, their assembly lines.
0:09:33Right.
0:09:33So it's not as if like they've amortized the costs of so much of this machine.
0:09:38So other than the new color, but everything else they've, they've
0:09:41amortized the cost.
0:09:42So I, I, I will give them a little bit of kudos for that, but I'm not going to like
0:09:46go out of my way just because I feel like that's, you know, I'm glad the price didn't
0:09:51go up.
0:09:51If the price had gone up, I would be angry, but, but I'm, I'm happy that it didn't.
0:09:56So there still is a black tax.
0:10:00Yes.
0:10:01I love this.
0:10:02The sort of replacement for the touch bar 13 inch Mac book pro is this 1599, no pro
0:10:10in the name, regular M three chip Mac book pro.
0:10:14And it, it does have this, and I think it's a great machine and it's such a better
0:10:19replacement to sort of fill that halfway between a thousand and $2,000 price range.
0:10:25And I'm like, as certain as I can be without even off the record, no one from
0:10:30Apple is ever going to say to me, yes, that's why we kept that damn machine
0:10:34around.
0:10:34But nobody ever told me I'm wrong.
0:10:37It's basically because there's some number of people, right?
0:10:40Either they are consumers and let's face it.
0:10:42They're probably men.
0:10:44I mean, let's face it.
0:10:45Definitely men.
0:10:46They are absolutely men.
0:10:47And, and, or.
0:10:48I T departments buying for a fleet.
0:10:51And again, probably men who are like our people or me personally, me, tough guy.
0:10:56We need a pro.
0:10:57I need a pro.
0:10:58I need a machine with pro and they're like, okay, if you really want one with pro and
0:11:02you don't want to spend $2,000 or up, here you go.
0:11:05Here's the thing.
0:11:06And that was it.
0:11:07Now there's a really, that's a, it's a credible, good, cool machine now, but you
0:11:14can't get it in space.
0:11:15Black, silver or space gray, which are, which are the unchanged colors from
0:11:21previous generations.
0:11:22If you want space black, then you've got to upgrade to the $2,000 and up models.
0:11:28Right.
0:11:28No, what is interesting is that the base model 14 inch only has two Thunderbolt
0:11:33three ports rather than three, but of course it does still have like the HDMI
0:11:38and the SDXC, so it is similar.
0:11:41Most people, I would argue if you're looking at a Mac book air, a 15 inch
0:11:47Mac book air, I think if you were to price that out to be the $1,600, I think
0:11:51is probably going to give you more bang for your buck in my opinion, than what
0:11:55you would get with that base level M3.
0:11:57In my opinion, but just because you're going to be able to get more Ram in it,
0:12:01which I think is going to matter more than the chip difference, just, just
0:12:05candidly, but to your point, I do think that this is going to go after that
0:12:10segment of people who wanted the pro for whatever reason.
0:12:14And I think that when we look at like what they do with the line going forward,
0:12:18I think that this is a really good place for them to have kind of that tiered
0:12:22system of saying, okay, this is what we have for the Mac book, airs the 13 and
0:12:25the 15, and then we have these three models for people who, for whatever
0:12:30reason, want some of those differences.
0:12:32And so I feel like before, and I think I said this in the last two or three
0:12:36years of Jason Snell's Apple report card, I'd complained about the Touch Bar
0:12:41Mac still existing, because it just made no sense to me, it was like one of
0:12:45those things I was like, you either need to just spend the money and get a 14
0:12:48inch or you are going to be completely very, very well off with the Mac book
0:12:53air, especially with the redesigned Mac book airs that came out in 2022.
0:12:58And of course, then now the new 15 inch, but I feel like at this point, there
0:13:01is enough of a differentiation where you could make that argument for some
0:13:06people if they wanted that 14 inch for whatever reason, that I feel like the
0:13:10line makes sense in a way that that it didn't before and certainly in a way
0:13:14that the iPad does not.
0:13:16And so hopefully the iPad, maybe in a year, we'll finally be there with the iPad.
0:13:21I do think you're right that for most people buying for themselves, your, and
0:13:26your budget is around 1600.
0:13:29I think you're probably better off getting an M two Mac book air and
0:13:34upgrading to 1600 then starting with the baseline MacBook Pro.
0:13:39But if that's what you want, you're getting it.
0:13:42You, I, you can't say I would not recommend that machine in the way that
0:13:48anybody like I'm sure every single person who listens to my podcast has is
0:13:53the sort of person who's informed enough to know that if somebody they know was
0:13:57tempted to buy the touch bar MacBook Pro, they would try to talk that person out
0:14:02of it and say, no, buy something else, buy the Mac, but you, you should get the M
0:14:06two air.
0:14:07It is great.
0:14:08No, it's air, not pro, but seriously, it's awesome.
0:14:11Yeah, you should get it.
0:14:12I did not know about the ports.
0:14:14It's all I'm still figuring out some of these details.
0:14:17That's kind of interesting.
0:14:18And it, it it's kind of interesting to me because it says to me, they did some
0:14:22errors, a fair amount of custom engineering just to make this machine.
0:14:26Yeah, no, that's a good point.
0:14:28And I think to me, what it also kind of screams to me is it's going, okay, they
0:14:31very clearly wanted to still have the differentiation between the $2,000 model
0:14:38for the pro, which I think is really what they consider the MacBook pro, which is
0:14:42fine.
0:14:43And in kind of this kind of like havesy, this, this, this foe, I guess we can call
0:14:49it this, this bow pro, but, but I mean, cause it still has, it has 200 volt ports,
0:14:54but it still has the HDMI, which the air doesn't have.
0:14:56It has the XC, XC, it has the mag safe.
0:14:59And so it has the great speaker system, which really is impressive.
0:15:04It is, it really, it has the same display with the same number of nits for both
0:15:09SDR content and which is up from 500 to 600 nits.
0:15:13So significant 21.2 X brighter.
0:15:17Yeah, the same 16, it's the same display, which is great.
0:15:20Great.
0:15:21I think that's neat.
0:15:23I didn't think of it, but that it has the same brightness capabilities as the
0:15:28studio displays.
0:15:30So if you're going to run it side by side with the studio display, you're going to
0:15:34get same levels of brightness on both of them.
0:15:37That's great.
0:15:39I, and I will say that before I forget, before we move on, I got to talk about
0:15:44the fingerprint thing.
0:15:44Yes.
0:15:45Yes. I want to hear your impressions on this because this is very important.
0:15:48I think this is going to make or break it for the, for the color.
0:15:51I think it's no, no bullshit.
0:15:53I think they've invented some kind of, I think when they say that they've got some
0:15:57blah, blah, blah industry first coding.
0:16:01Yes, I think so.
0:16:03Because when I was there, it was, it was not a particularly warm day, but it was
0:16:08like humid in New York and I have sort of vaguely sweaty hands, not enough.
0:16:14That would be great.
0:16:14It's ever grew.
0:16:15I think, I hope never gross to shake my hand, but you know, I tend to just moist
0:16:21hands.
0:16:21I, I was there touching it, trying to put fingerprints on it and couldn't do it.
0:16:28I there's something I think I'm pretty in a way that I know would have left a
0:16:32fingerprint on the midnight M two Mac book air.
0:16:36And then I closed the lid and put my index finger on the glossy Apple logo and it
0:16:41immediately left a crystal clear fingerprint.
0:16:44And of course, like anytime you're in Apple's presence for a media event, there's
0:16:49people watching.
0:16:50And as soon as I did it, somebody was there to say, there's no coding on the
0:16:54glossy Apple logo because we want it to look polished.
0:16:57So you will be able to leave fingerprints on the Apple logo if you want.
0:17:02But I do think that they are, they really do have something going on with the
0:17:08anti-fingerprint coding.
0:17:09It was funny.
0:17:11I don't think I'm supposed to say this, but it's a podcast, not an article.
0:17:14So screw it.
0:17:14I'll say it.
0:17:15Somebody else in my media group asked, have you heard complaints from people with the
0:17:20midnight M two Mac book era about fingerprints?
0:17:24And the answer was, we're very happy with the new coding on the space M three Mac
0:17:33book pros.
0:17:34That's a great answer that, and that tells you if you've ever, you know this, you
0:17:39know it, but it is that if you're ever curious what it's like talking to people in
0:17:43Apple product marketing, that question and answer was absolutely positively
0:17:49exemplary as this is how they answer questions they don't want to answer.
0:17:52Yes.
0:17:53And that is also like a great answer because as you said, that is the perfect
0:17:57Apple product marketing answer.
0:17:58And it is also affirmatively saying, yes, we have definitely been hearing
0:18:02complaints.
0:18:02No, we will not comment on it, but we are very happy with this new one, which great
0:18:07answer.
0:18:07Like I, so that's, that's really good to know my, probably my favorite laptop ever
0:18:14up until the current 14 inch laptops and the 16 is too, but I really love the 14
0:18:19inch form factor was that original Intel black Mac book.
0:18:23I, for whatever reason, I love, love, love that laptop.
0:18:28And so I'm very happy that we have, like, it feels like an adult version of that,
0:18:34like years later.
0:18:35And, and so like, I, I still have my, my, my 2007 black book that I named Simon
0:18:40because it was inadvertently paid for by Simon Cowell.
0:18:43So, and, and he wore a black t-shirt, so it, the whole thing fit, but I loved that
0:18:48laptop and I'm very glad that we have.
0:18:50I don't, I don't think I can let that slide without asking for a follow up
0:18:54question.
0:18:55Yeah.
0:18:55So I was in college and I want to, because of being a blog commenter of all things, I
0:19:02would comment on the then music editor of USA today's music blog.
0:19:06And he also had an American idol blog, and that was like my secret shame slash
0:19:09guilty pleasure.
0:19:10And I would comment on both of those blogs and he really liked my remarks.
0:19:14And so they asked me to contribute to the print and the online section of the paper
0:19:19about American idol.
0:19:20It was me and like three people that actually knew what they were talking about
0:19:23giving advice to the contestants each week.
0:19:25They paid me $1,500 and I used that to buy that black Mac book.
0:19:31Yeah.
0:19:31So unlike that one, which I think as if I recall correctly, you got nothing except
0:19:37the better color for $200.
0:19:39It was that, and it was, it was a $50 difference if you got the right amount of
0:19:44hard disk size.
0:19:46So I think that the base or, so it was like the, it was the faster processor and it
0:19:51had 160 gigabyte hard drive, whereas the white one was 120 gigabytes.
0:19:56But if you custom ordered the white one and like you gave it the faster processor
0:20:00and gave it the bigger hard drive, it was a $50 black tax, which, you know,
0:20:05like it, which is where we're back.
0:20:08And, and it was for me, I remember like convincing my mom because she had to help
0:20:11me with a little bit of it.
0:20:13And, and I was like, no, I have to have the black one.
0:20:15Yeah.
0:20:16I was like, this is very important to me.
0:20:17I have to have the black Mac book.
0:20:18So finally on that, I have to admit I I'm amused by the fact, I guess if my budget
0:20:25were $1,600, I'd be.
0:20:27Well, actually, I think I agree with you.
0:20:29If my budget capped at 1600, I would just get the midnight M2 MacBook Air.
0:20:35I'm very happy about this color.
0:20:38I'm very unhappy about the fact that I'm so upset.
0:20:42I've just spent, I mean, let me look at the time here.
0:20:45I first saw it, I guess 11 hours ago.
0:20:50So I've spent 11 hours thinking, don't, I don't need this.
0:20:52I don't need this.
0:20:53I don't need this.
0:20:54And I really, I'm going to have to buy it.
0:20:56You have to buy it, but also it's going to be great for your son because he
0:20:59really does need, he really doesn't need an upgraded machine, right?
0:21:01Like he's in his sophomore year of college.
0:21:03He needs this because it's not as if everything he does isn't web based.
0:21:07No, not at all.
0:21:09No, he doesn't need a glorified Chromebook.
0:21:11He needs a really powerful machine with 32 cores and 64 gigs of RAM.
0:21:15I can't, I feel bad too.
0:21:17Cause when they talk about the reasons for each step up in the line, why you
0:21:22might need this and they're like, this would be great for video pros.
0:21:25And this is great for people who work in 3d and this is great for and then you get
0:21:28to say AI and blah, blah, blah.
0:21:30And it's like, what about web browser tab hoarders?
0:21:33Like me.
0:21:35Exactly.
0:21:35Same.
0:21:36I mean, I do, I do some video work and I do do a certain amount of kind of AI stuff.
0:21:41Unfortunately.
0:21:42I mean the AI thing, that's an interesting conversation because most of the models
0:21:47are still primarily made for Nvidia GPUs and they work better that way.
0:21:52So it's one of those weird things where like I have my gaming PC that I built a
0:21:55few years ago that like that actually works considerably better for running any
0:21:59of the stable diffusion or any of the other kind of open source AI models than
0:22:05my Mac book.
0:22:05But I will say Apple, they have their own forks of some of those things they've
0:22:09been optimizing for those things.
0:22:12And with any luck, I'm sure that Apple has its own LLM with any luck they will
0:22:18in the next year or so have something that people can, can run themselves too.
0:22:23And this is by all accounts, I mean, it's not going to be as good as a standalone
0:22:27machine with a discrete GPU, but the graphs looks good.
0:22:31I don't know.
0:22:32I mean, you will have to wait for the actual full reviews, but the graphs
0:22:35certainly looked good.
0:22:36And so I'm not, I'm, I'm not mad at it, but I'm also going to be completely
0:22:40candid.
0:22:40Like my whole thing is I'm the tab hoarder web browser person.
0:22:44And I'm like, no, but it's black and it looks really good.
0:22:47And I want it.
0:22:48I really have to say, I have to admit this was.
0:22:51It, it was true for me before I got this one.
0:22:55It was, it's been true for me throughout the Apple Silicon era.
0:22:58Once we got to Apple Silicon for what I do with a Mac
0:23:03performance wise, I can't notice a difference with anything.
0:23:07Really.
0:23:08Ram matters to me.
0:23:10And the Ram is mostly about my, the fact that I love to keep all my apps open at
0:23:14once.
0:23:14And the one that really takes up all the Ram is Safari because I have, and I'm not
0:23:19exaggerating, usually hundreds of tabs open across two dozen windows until I once a
0:23:25month do like a, okay, bookmark anything, work bookmarking and start all over.
0:23:30And then by the end of the next month, I'm back up to 400 and some open tabs.
0:23:33But you know, that's the way I like to work.
0:23:35I do.
0:23:36And I love having them all open.
0:23:37I need the Ram for it.
0:23:39But at this point now I'm worried because the other thing about my M one MacBook pro
0:23:45with 64 gigs of Ram exactly like yours is I check every once in a while and I never
0:23:51have almost ever, I think in the, I don't know how long I've been using this machine.
0:23:55Oh, well over a year, well over a year at this point, I think I've only noticed a swap
0:24:00virtual memory one time ever, you know, that I've gone past.
0:24:04So I can't really justify 128 gigabytes of Ram.
0:24:09But yeah.
0:24:10But if you're going to buy it, you have to like, to me, I'm going to like, I'm in a
0:24:15similar situation where I'm like, okay, I don't actually, cause I have my, my work
0:24:19machine has only 32 gigs of Ram.
0:24:22And that is only because those were the only ones that we could get.
0:24:25Like they were so supply constrained that I could only get like a 16 inch M one pro
0:24:30with 32 gigs of Ram.
0:24:31And I was lucky to get that when I was able to get it because some people had to wait
0:24:35like months to get laptops and had to like make do with MacBook Airs, like animals.
0:24:40And even on that machine, which I do a lot of stuff on, like I
0:24:45very rarely run into any sort of swap at all.
0:24:48And I have to be honest with myself.
0:24:50I'm like, I really don't notice any difference between the performance between the two at
0:24:53all.
0:24:53But if I'm going to spend the money, like I'm, I'm, I'm a Ram whore
0:24:59and I'm, you can call me a size queen, whatever, but like, I'm going to need the
0:25:03128 gigs of Ram.
0:25:04Like that's what I'm going to need on that machine, whether I'm going to use it or not.
0:25:07Well, and the other reason I feel like you and I can both justify it is if we buy now,
0:25:12I think that I think it was like 18 months from M one to M two and
0:25:18it was like 16 months from the beginning of M two now to M three, but it's roughly a
0:25:23year and a half.
0:25:24Let's say they keep it going.
0:25:25It's going to be close to a year and a half before M four is even right
0:25:29bird by now.
0:25:31And I would say within a year, most websites will be coded worse, take up
0:25:36more memory.
0:25:38No, no, you're right.
0:25:40And, and with any luck, I mean, I don't know what the architecture looks like yet.
0:25:44I'm hoping that the virtual that will finally get nested virtualization support,
0:25:48because if that happens, then that would make it easier for things like Docker and
0:25:52other containerized tools, which is one of the reasons I still have an Intel.
0:25:56Right.
0:25:57iMac is for a lot of the Docker stuff I have to do is just runs better on Intel or
0:26:01I use a cloud machine and I would love to not have to do that.
0:26:05And in that case, honestly, like putting aside the AI of it all, like that's where
0:26:10area where I could, if I had can have a bunch of VMs running, shoot, like I can, I
0:26:15can go through 128 gigs of Ram like quick and, and be very happy to.
0:26:20So, so I think you're right.
0:26:22A, the websites will be coded worse, so we'll have that going for us, but B for
0:26:27some of the nerdier pursuits that we will usually take on, there will be, I think to
0:26:32your point, like this is one of those things where I was really glad that I bought the
0:26:35M1 basically like the max, like as soon as it was released.
0:26:39And even though I'm mad at my, my resale value, I'm also not that mad.
0:26:44Cause it's, this is, this is like a luxury that I can talk about replacing a laptop.
0:26:50I don't need to replace because it's been a great laptop and I'm like, you know what?
0:26:54I'm not at all mad if I buy and go all in on like the highest end one again.
0:27:00And, and if it's only two more years, then I can sell still like, be like, well, this
0:27:04was a really great laptop for two years.
0:27:06Yeah.
0:27:06Before we leave the point, I do think though, it exemplifies the fact that you can now buy
0:27:11a Mac book pro that goes up to 128 gigabytes of Ram.
0:27:16Insane.
0:27:16Is insane, but it really is a frustrating contrast to the fact that the base models
0:27:25only have eight.
0:27:25Yes.
0:27:26Right.
0:27:26No, I agree.
0:27:27Yeah.
0:27:28I mean, honestly, like the more, the more I think about that, I'm bothered by that,
0:27:31but that's just, that's such a cheap move because if anything, I'm thinking it costs
0:27:35them since like, like since like, like tens of cents for a difference for them to have
0:27:40the 16 gig diode versus eight, they're, they're integrating the whole thing.
0:27:44I'm like, if anything, I'm like, Is this leftover stuff?
0:27:47Like what, how are you inviting eight gigabyte shifts with any of the M three max
0:27:52configs, which I think start, I haven't written it starts at 18 or the post
0:27:57starts at 18.
0:27:58It starts at 18 and the Mac starts at 36.
0:28:01All right.
0:28:02So forget not the 36, but once you get to like 48, you could have eight gigs of Ram
0:28:06go bad and you might not notice.
0:28:08Right.
0:28:09That's true.
0:28:10That's a very good point.
0:28:11It is an incredible amount of Ram for a laptop and Intel.
0:28:16The Intel machines never even came close to it.
0:28:18What was the, I think the most 64.
0:28:21Was it, you could get an Intel Mac book with the last four for the last gen.
0:28:26I nine 16 inches.
0:28:27Yes.
0:28:28And it was only those.
0:28:30And of course those machines ran hot and it was not a great ship and they were,
0:28:35they were struggling.
0:28:35But yeah, that final model you could do 64.
0:28:38I remember because I looked at potentially getting one of those and I'm so glad I
0:28:42didn't, but yeah, I mean at this point, even PC laptops, even some of the higher
0:28:47end one 64 is usually as high as you can go.
0:28:49So having 128 and a laptop that it runs the same speed plugged in or, or not,
0:28:55that's a flex and that's a real flex when you're talking about having like this
0:29:00much power in these machines.
0:29:01And when we look at it back that we're basically just three years into this
0:29:04transition, like that's really incredible.
0:29:06Yeah.
0:29:07And on the on the PC side, and I'm no expert on PC hardware, but I follow along
0:29:11enough.
0:29:12I mean, it really is on the laptop side, almost like two modes, right?
0:29:16There's plugged in mode where you've kind of got what, what laptops started as 30
0:29:23years ago, desktop PCs that somehow you could pick up and take away from the desk
0:29:29without restarting, but definitely run the right way only when they're plugged in.
0:29:35And when they're not plugged in switch to almost an entirely different mode of
0:29:40performance, you know, brightness, everything kind of drops down, certainly
0:29:45in terms of graphics performance and stuff like that.
0:29:48Not nothing, you know, stays the same as when it's plugged in and you don't get,
0:29:52and even so you don't get good battery life.
0:29:54No, some of the Ryzen machines do better than some of the Intel ones.
0:29:58And but if you're talking about anything that has any sort of GPU associated with
0:30:03it at all, no, the battery life is abysmal.
0:30:05And so, and certainly the integrated GPUs are not as good as the Apple GPUs.
0:30:13The Apple GPUs are not as good as the discrete graphics cards.
0:30:16And they're not as good as the laptops that have 3090s or 4090s or whatever are
0:30:21in them.
0:30:21They're not, but the integrated ones from Intel or AMD or whoever are definitely
0:30:27better on the Mac.
0:30:28And that's a really interesting place to be because I, you know, don't think that a
0:30:33lot of us would have thought that, well, that certainly wasn't the case even four
0:30:36years ago.
0:30:37And I think even three years ago, a lot of us, myself most definitely were a little
0:30:41bit cautious, but a little bit suspect, like, okay, is this really going to be able
0:30:44to compete with the best PC laptops?
0:30:47Like putting the battery life aside performance wise, will this be able to
0:30:49compete? And I think the answer is to your point, unless you have one that is
0:30:52literally designed just to be plugged in and is essentially a desktop that happens
0:30:57to have a fixed screen.
0:30:59Yeah, there it's, it must be very specific needs, like you want to play games or
0:31:04you're wanting to do certain AI workloads.
0:31:06I can't think of any reason why anybody would not buy a Mac laptop right now.
0:31:11Yeah, definitely.
0:31:12All right, let's take a break.
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0:35:19All right, before I forget, Christina, I got another complaint.
0:35:23I want to knock off the complaints first because it's overall very good news day.
0:35:26Definitely.
0:35:27I got, I have another complaint and I think it might be the single most surprising news of the day.
0:35:33And I mean this sincerely.
0:35:34It is a, it's a small thing.
0:35:36It's not big.
0:35:37It's not a deal stopper, but I think it is the thing that is the most, what the hell?
0:35:42And that is the fact that the keyboard, mouse and trackpad with the iMac are still, they're
0:35:50still lightning.
0:35:51Yes.
0:35:51But what, what the actual, like, tell me you don't care about the 24 inch iMac without telling
0:35:56me you don't care about the 24 inch iMac.
0:35:58What?
0:35:58I don't get it.
0:35:59And this has nothing to do with any kind of compliance with EU regulations.
0:36:02I don't think I, and I, I've been writing about the fact that that, that those regulations
0:36:07don't kick in until the end of next year.
0:36:08So Apple did not have to move the iPhone to USB-C this year.
0:36:13They could have waited until next year.
0:36:15I think next year they kind of did have a mandate that they kind of had to do it next
0:36:19year.
0:36:19They didn't have to, but I just think it's sort of, okay, well, there's that.
0:36:24And the fact that it just is nice having everything USB-C and then you can just have, like with
0:36:29my studio display, I can have one USB-C cable coming out.
0:36:33That's just there to charge products, you know, like, oh, that's how I have it now.
0:36:38Yeah.
0:36:38Right.
0:36:38It was very nice.
0:36:39One of the cables connects to the Mac and I've got one for my keyboard and, but then
0:36:45just one dedicated cable that just sits there and I can put my AirPods case in now with
0:36:49the new AirPods Pro because they upgraded that to USB-C.
0:36:53What the actual.
0:36:55No, I agree.
0:36:56It's ridiculous.
0:36:57And it's funny you say that because I'm like literally grabbing from my studio display
0:37:01my lightning cable to plug in my Magic Trackpad because I just realized that like the battery
0:37:06on that was getting low.
0:37:07But I do, I have like two things coming from that, like one, you know, for USB-C and one
0:37:11with lightning coming off of it.
0:37:13Yeah, this makes no sense.
0:37:16Like it would be such an easy to me kind of like retooling thing to do.
0:37:22It would also make sense because they can still sell those accessories separately and
0:37:25it would be a good thing for anybody who's buying them to use with a Mac Studio or a
0:37:30Mac Mini or even a MacBook Pro because, hey, I can just use a straight USB cable.
0:37:36I don't have to worry about having the USB-C to lightning cable in a bag, right?
0:37:41Because that's increasingly going to become less common.
0:37:44Like I'm annoyed that they haven't updated the AirPods Max because that's like my last
0:37:50real piece of like day-to-day gear that uses lightning.
0:37:55I found an excuse to buy the new AirPod Pros, second gens with USB-C.
0:38:02My rationalization there because I'd lost a pair like six weeks before and so I had to
0:38:06buy another pair and I was like, man, this is unfortunate that I literally just bought
0:38:10another pair.
0:38:11And then I realized I was in Washington, D.C. with a friend of mine and I realized, oh,
0:38:15Aaron doesn't have a pair of AirPods.
0:38:17So Aaron needs a pair of AirPods, so I'm going to give these to her and then that's my excuse
0:38:21to buy the ones with USB-C.
0:38:23But like it's annoying to me that they just make the move because it's not like they can't
0:38:29use those accessories in future products.
0:38:31Eventually, they have to change eventually.
0:38:34Right.
0:38:34Yeah.
0:38:34So why not now?
0:38:36It just seems very strange and with the iPhone moving from lightning to USB-C is the flagship
0:38:42lightning to USB-C transition, right?
0:38:46Lightning was literally invented for the iPhone.
0:38:49Absolutely.
0:38:50So that's the big one.
0:38:51And then doing it alongside the AirPods Pro 2 with USB-C, right?
0:38:58You have to because there's also the AirPods Pro 2 with lightning.
0:39:02But like I said, it's like version 2.5 or 2.1 or something.
0:39:06Exactly.
0:39:07Because they also, those AirPods Pro also uniquely have the upcoming ability to do lossless
0:39:15audio quality with the Vision Pro.
0:39:20Yeah.
0:39:20Which again, it's annoying if you've got the lightning ones.
0:39:24But again, I'm telling you, I really do not believe.
0:39:27I think there's like one tenth of one percent of human beings who could hear the difference
0:39:32between high quality.
0:39:33Oh, yeah.
0:39:34And compressed audio and lossless audio.
0:39:39So it's not, but it is mildly annoying, right?
0:39:42In the same way that I just have to have space black for my laptop.
0:39:46It's like I can kind of, I get it.
0:39:48You kind of want, if you spent 250 bucks on your wireless AirPods Pro, you kind of want
0:39:53the best ones.
0:39:55And it's like, yeah, it's kind of annoying.
0:39:56But they moved those.
0:39:57I can't believe that this is not the debut of the Magic Keyboard, Magic Trackpad, Magic
0:40:03Mouse with USB-C.
0:40:07I just jaw dropped.
0:40:09And it was so funny me getting this morning briefing today and getting the news under
0:40:17NDA eight hours ahead of the video coming out.
0:40:20And then being on the train coming back to Philly from New York and browsing Mastodon
0:40:27and seeing people's predictions and everybody's prediction included new peripherals with USB-C.
0:40:33Because it just makes sense.
0:40:34You're thinking, okay, that's what they're going to do.
0:40:36And it's annoying because presumably there will hopefully, hopefully one day be a larger
0:40:42screened iMac that will actually have a powerful processor and a decent amount of RAM.
0:40:48And that will of course have USB-C accessories.
0:40:52So it just, I don't know.
0:40:54To me, just like I said, it makes me feel like they just really do not care about the
0:40:5624 inch iMac at all.
0:40:58Like this is a spec bump.
0:40:59This is not a big seller.
0:41:01I don't think they push a lot of units.
0:41:04This is just one of those things that they have to say, we still sell an iMac.
0:41:07And it is the only Mac that skipped the M2 generation.
0:41:12Right.
0:41:12Even the Mac mini, which I say even not to disparage it, but because...
0:41:17They ignored that for forever.
0:41:20Right.
0:41:20For a while it was ignored.
0:41:22Right.
0:41:23And then it was, they kind of came back and it was one of those, it wasn't quite as big
0:41:28as the Mac Pro, mea culpa, but they kind of did like a, hey, we took, you know, as close
0:41:34as Apple's ever going to come to saying, we kind of took our eye off the Mac mini for
0:41:37a while, but we found out that lots of pros use this for really pro scenarios.
0:41:43I remember hearing about like people who do the audio for concerts who love the Mac mini
0:41:48because it's small and because they, you know, they need to tear down the whole thing
0:41:54every night because it's a concert tour and they're going different places.
0:41:58And so, you know, smaller is better, but they don't want a laptop.
0:42:02They want something that they're going to plug in.
0:42:04It's, you know, pro audio gear.
0:42:06They say, you know, the iMac is, you know, they, and I believe it, what else would be
0:42:11the best selling all-in-one in the world.
0:42:13But it's so it's like on the one hand, they're bragging.
0:42:17It's the best selling all-in-one.
0:42:19They're still selling it.
0:42:20The iMac is obviously near and dear to Apple's heart because, you know, we just sell them,
0:42:24right?
0:42:25We just celebrated the 25th anniversary of the original iMac.
0:42:28It harks back to the original Mac from 1984, which was an all-in-one.
0:42:34So some, it's obviously worth still making, but it was also not worth having an M2 generation.
0:42:43These, they are, they're the identical colors.
0:42:46Everybody's happy because it is the most colorful product left in Apple's entire lineup of all
0:42:53products.
0:42:53So thank God they didn't bleed the color out of them.
0:42:56Yeah, that's true.
0:42:58We'd be very upset if that happened.
0:42:59And I'm glad that they did go ahead and get this more juiced and that these are M3s.
0:43:04Although I will say it is kind of a little bit annoying that it is just the base level
0:43:07M3 that they don't have an option even for, I'm not, I wouldn't expect a Max, but you
0:43:11know, but the Pro would be nice.
0:43:14Like again, the Mac mini, which is at this point a great machine.
0:43:18And I think that a lot of people, you can get an M2 Pro or a regular M2.
0:43:22Look, I still think that for a lot of people, like you would, it's similar to the MacBook
0:43:27Air, like depending on what you need, you'd probably be better off getting a well-specced
0:43:30M2 Pro Mac mini than getting a Mac Studio.
0:43:33If that's what you're after in terms of that form factor, right?
0:43:36And you're absolutely better off getting a Mac Studio Ultra than getting a Mac Pro.
0:43:41Like that's not even a conversation.
0:43:44So yeah, it's frustrating.
0:43:45I know they care about the iMac, but I'm really, really hoping, because I love the iMac.
0:43:51I will always have a special place in my heart for the iMac.
0:43:53I really want like the 32 inch 6K iMac at some point that is like a proper powerful
0:44:01machine.
0:44:02Like maybe it doesn't have a huge market, but I would definitely buy one.
0:44:05I do think, and this is something that just came in while we were recording, a friend
0:44:10texted me who's trying to configure this for somebody.
0:44:13No, see, this is not true.
0:44:14Somebody texted me, this is not true.
0:44:16It would have been shocking.
0:44:18So I'm glad I double checked and didn't just take their word.
0:44:20You can customize the iMac.
0:44:22The base models are eight, but you can get 16 or 24 gigabytes.
0:44:27Yes, yes.
0:44:28You can go all the way up to 24 gigs.
0:44:29Yeah, but the only thing is that it's not a pro or a max because that's still the maximum
0:44:34amount of RAM.
0:44:35Like for that M3, it is basically the same as like what it was for the base level, like
0:44:39M1 and M2.
0:44:40So yes, you can go up to 24 gigs of RAM, which is nice.
0:44:44And you can go up to a, I'm looking at it now, a two terabyte SSD.
0:44:48And if you do those, both of those things, then you're looking at a $2,700 computer,
0:44:54which at that point, I don't know.
0:44:57I think you're better off maybe again, looking at this, which I think is what they want,
0:45:01getting a studio display and a Mac Mini.
0:45:05But I don't know.
0:45:07Well, and the one thing they reiterated in person and then in the broadcast, the half
0:45:13hour broadcast tonight, I think they mentioned it.
0:45:15They only gave the iMac a couple of minutes.
0:45:18I think like three minutes.
0:45:20Yeah.
0:45:20Yeah.
0:45:21In those three minutes, I think they mentioned at least three times that 24 inches is the
0:45:28perfect size, both for people coming from a 21 inch Intel iMac, which is true because
0:45:36this is definitely bigger and better, but also for people coming from a 27 inch iMac.
0:45:43And that, that, that makes no sense.
0:45:47That's a lie.
0:45:48That's a lie.
0:45:49I'm talking to you from a 27 inch iMac right now where I have a 27 inch studio display
0:45:53right next to it.
0:45:55No.
0:45:55If you told me, Oh yeah, you can lose 20% of your screen real estate and a chunk of
0:46:02your resolution.
0:46:03No.
0:46:03Everybody knows, everybody who's ever bought a computer knows that, okay, once you're talking
0:46:08about diagonals, three inches is a big difference.
0:46:11It is.
0:46:12Yeah.
0:46:12Like I said, I said 20%, it might be more than that, but it's the fact that it's four
0:46:17and a half K and not five K that says it all right there.
0:46:19If you're, if your current iMac, Intel iMac is so old that it's a 27 inch, not retina
0:46:29iMac.
0:46:30Okay.
0:46:31Okay.
0:46:31Yes.
0:46:31This display is a, is an upgrade even though it's smaller.
0:46:34Right.
0:46:35If you had a 27 inch retina iMac, 24 inch, I don't care about the brightness or nits
0:46:40or anything.
0:46:41That's a downgrade.
0:46:43It's a downgrade.
0:46:44Stop telling me that this is a better deal.
0:46:46But I do feel that putting on my translator hat from Cupertino Ease to English is the
0:46:53point of their repeated insistence that this is a great display, no matter which old iMac
0:47:00you're upgrading from.
0:47:00The translation is we are not going to make a big iMac.
0:47:05Yeah.
0:47:06I mean.
0:47:06So that's the translation.
0:47:08That's probably true.
0:47:09That's, that's how I interpret it.
0:47:11I interpret it as meaning if you want an all-in-one iMac, I hope you like 24 inches because that's
0:47:18all we're going to make.
0:47:19And if you want a bigger display, we'll be happy to sell you a Mac mini or Mac studio
0:47:26if you need the performance and a studio display.
0:47:29And my personal opinion as a nerd who loves to offer my opinion solicited or unsolicited
0:47:37is a better way to spend your money because these displays last a long time.
0:47:43That's true.
0:47:43There's not, we've already done the move from non-retina to retina.
0:47:48They're not going to move to 3x retina or 4x retina.
0:47:51There's no point to it, right?
0:47:53And the brightness is what it is.
0:47:55So getting a studio display now, even though the studio display has been out for a while,
0:48:00it's still, in my opinion, is a good buy.
0:48:01I know it's expensive.
0:48:02You can, or if you want to buy a third party, I know there's more 5k options out there.
0:48:07That are retina quality.
0:48:08I'm a big fan of the studio display.
0:48:10I love mine.
0:48:10I love the nano texture thing, which is expensive, but it solves all of these incredibly harsh
0:48:18sunlight glare angles I have or lighting issues I have in my home office.
0:48:22And I don't care about the camera.
0:48:25I mean, I do care about the camera.
0:48:26I wish the camera were better.
0:48:27Yes, for the price.
0:48:28That's my only real hit.
0:48:30So I bought the VESA model, which is typically what I buy for these things.
0:48:34And then I have an expensive monitor arm because I prefer that because that way I can actually
0:48:38rotate it and I don't have to deal with that BS.
0:48:42That is annoying to me that for the price they charge, that you have to make your decision
0:48:45when you buy it, if you actually want to be able to rotate it or not.
0:48:49And I had the LG 5k display before.
0:48:52And what's it called?
0:48:53The very fine, the very fine.
0:48:55Yeah, the super fine, whatever it is.
0:48:56Yeah.
0:48:56The not so fine.
0:48:58The ultra fine.
0:48:59That's what it was.
0:49:00The ultra fine.
0:49:01And that was fine.
0:49:02The slightly disappointment thing I think for me, I was like, I'd wanted it to be, and
0:49:06if the camera had been better, I'd been like, oh, okay, well then this is worth a 50%
0:49:09premium on what it used to cost.
0:49:12And, or 40% or whatever it was.
0:49:14And the camera is garbage.
0:49:15And I don't like that it doesn't have a power button.
0:49:17I use the trick that you use where I got the smart plug so that I can actually power cycle
0:49:23it.
0:49:23But I have come around in my like year and a half or however long it's been, close to
0:49:28two years now since I've bought the thing, cause I got it like literally I pre-ordered
0:49:32it the day that it was announced.
0:49:33I have come around and I've gone, okay, I think it's expensive, but if you are someone
0:49:39like you and I who will not be happy with anything other than 2x, right?
0:49:43Like, and I can't, I can't use a 4k on a Mac.
0:49:46I just can't.
0:49:46No, me neither.
0:49:48Unless it's a 24 inch size, in which case then it actually would be 2x, but I can't
0:49:52use a 27 inch or a 32 inch 4k monitor on a Mac.
0:49:55I just can't.
0:49:56I need that pixel doubling.
0:49:58And that's the case.
0:49:59I mean, your, your option is basically the studio display.
0:50:03Yeah.
0:50:03So I do think that's a better buy.
0:50:06I think if you were waiting for 27 inch or bigger consumer prosumer level way of doing
0:50:14Apple Silicon on your desktop, if you had bought the studio display as soon as it came
0:50:19out and just bought whatever the then current, I don't know if they were still in the M1
0:50:25or if the M2 Mac minis were, I think the M2s had just come out.
0:50:28You, that display will be fine.
0:50:31And then you could, I know M3 Mac minis aren't out yet, but you could upgrade next year when
0:50:37it happens.
0:50:38You could wait for the M4 in a year and a half or two years, whenever that's going to
0:50:42happen.
0:50:42Oh yeah, no, cause this thing's going to last a decade at least, right?
0:50:45Like already it's, it's seven years old, the technology anyway.
0:50:49And that was the one thing we lost when we went from the regular to the retina IMAX was
0:50:55that the way that they could do the doubling, they had to get rid of target display mode.
0:50:58And that had been great with the previous IMAX because you could use them like as a, as a
0:51:03standalone display, you can't do that anymore.
0:51:06And so I think that is a great point from a, just a value perspective, having them separate.
0:51:11I think you're right.
0:51:11That's a better deal.
0:51:13I still love having like a proper all-in-one, but you're not wrong.
0:51:17Like if I were to do it tomorrow, like if I were actually going to replace the completely
0:51:22maxed out Intel iMac that I have that I bought in 2020, even though I knew when I bought
0:51:27it, like they'd already announced Apple Silicon, but I bought it for a reason.
0:51:30I knew that it was going to be a while for some of the stuff that I do to be M1 ready.
0:51:35And I was like, just go all out, spend all the money on it and, and upgrade the hell
0:51:41out of the thing.
0:51:41And, and it's three years later, it's still a very capable machine.
0:51:45But if I were to do that again, I would absolutely have either like a Mac studio or Mac mini
0:51:50pro paired with the studio display.
0:51:52Like that's what I would be doing.
0:51:53Yeah.
0:51:54I do think that is better for more people, but I totally, I do get it.
0:51:59You're right though.
0:51:59There's some people that, and whether it's logical or just affection, people want an
0:52:04all-in-one.
0:52:05And if I ruled Apple, I would make a bigger iMac too.
0:52:09Yeah.
0:52:09I like this size.
0:52:11I love that they're colorful.
0:52:12I think they look great.
0:52:14I think they look fantastic.
0:52:15Like I've almost bought one a few times that I have no need for and that I can't even justify
0:52:20it that way.
0:52:20They would just be like, Oh, it's a secondary machine.
0:52:22I'm like, you have so many computers.
0:52:24And that's where I will, like, I can convince myself to buy a black laptop, but I can't
0:52:28convince myself to have like a superfluous pink iMac as much as I would love it.
0:52:33But I wish they made a bigger one.
0:52:34Me too.
0:52:35Me too.
0:52:35That'd be lovely.
0:52:36I don't have much more to say about the iMac though.
0:52:38We can go back to the Mac pro.
0:52:40Yeah.
0:52:40Let's go back to the Mac pro.
0:52:41Yeah.
0:52:41I don't have much.
0:52:42I will say this.
0:52:43I was in the Apple store last week.
0:52:44I needed to buy, I'll explain.
0:52:46Yeah.
0:52:46Everybody knows I have a very old car.
0:52:48My car is 2006 accurate.
0:52:51I need to buy a new car, but I don't drive that much.
0:52:53And so my car is so old that when we bought it, the option, the upgrade option was to
0:52:59get a built in 30 pin adapter and I had the wisdom and I thought, ah, that's not here
0:53:06for long.
0:53:06So I didn't get it.
0:53:08But so we, our car has no way of no Bluetooth.
0:53:12There's no way there's no car player or anything like that.
0:53:14And because I really should have years ago replaced it and lease something new.
0:53:19So I'm not going to spend the money to put like a car play system in.
0:53:23So anyway, I've got a, I'm one of those tape players.
0:53:27That's a cassette tape.
0:53:28Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:53:28Yeah.
0:53:29For the Bluetooth, right?
0:53:30Yeah.
0:53:30Well, no, no, I could buy Bluetooth, but instead I have the headphone jack one.
0:53:34Oh, okay, cool.
0:53:35So I know they make them, I probably, I should look into the Bluetooth, but I have a cassette
0:53:40tape that you put in the tape deck and then there's a wire that comes out of it and you
0:53:44plug it in.
0:53:45But I realized only when I had to drive somewhere like a week and a half ago, oh shit, I have
0:53:51a new iPhone and I can't plug in lightning.
0:53:53And it was like one of the few times I was like, oh, I thought I got rid of all the lightning
0:53:58I needed to.
0:53:58And I didn't.
0:53:59So I needed to buy Apple's $9 headphone jack to USB-C adapter.
0:54:05Right.
0:54:05I live near the Apple store here in Philadelphia.
0:54:07And so I just, when I was walking by, went in to get it.
0:54:11And I went in to buy this $9 little thing and the self-checkout was nice.
0:54:16I didn't have to talk to anybody, but it literally caught my eye.
0:54:20And I just thought, man, those iMacs look cool.
0:54:24Yeah, they do.
0:54:24They look great.
0:54:26It's like the only color in the whole store.
0:54:28I know.
0:54:28I know.
0:54:29I hope and look, although to go back to MacBook Pro, like we got black, which I realized is
0:54:34not as bright as I would like, but this is a real black.
0:54:37This isn't the weird, very shades of black that we got on the phone this year.
0:54:41It's good in person.
0:54:42It's not black.
0:54:43It's not black.
0:54:44It really is space.
0:54:45Very, very dark gray.
0:54:47I almost feel like maybe black wouldn't be right.
0:54:50I actually think maybe this is as dark as it should go.
0:54:53Yeah.
0:54:54I mean, for aluminum, that's probably, they're probably getting as dark as they can get because
0:54:59with plastic, you can obviously go completely black, but aluminum, you can't.
0:55:04So, I mean, I can't wait to see it in person.
0:55:06Well, but what about the iPhone 7, right?
0:55:10That was the year where they had...
0:55:11Yeah, but the, oh, that was beautiful.
0:55:14They had two, they had two black iPhone 7s.
0:55:16They had the matte black.
0:55:18And then they had the shiny one.
0:55:19The shiny jet black.
0:55:20I love the jet black.
0:55:21Jet black.
0:55:22That thing was great, but that thing, speak, talk about things that like developed kind
0:55:26of a patina and that didn't hold up super well.
0:55:28Like, I think there's a reason why that was only one year that they had that.
0:55:32Yeah.
0:55:32Because...
0:55:33You could scratch it by looking at it.
0:55:35Yes, and I did.
0:55:36It was funny because I got one of those.
0:55:38That was the last year that I was part of the review program because after that, I switched
0:55:42careers and one of my colleagues broke it and I was so annoyed.
0:55:46And so we had to like pay to get it repaired and whatnot because I was like, this is checked
0:55:49out under me.
0:55:50I was like, yeah, I was like, you, I don't care how it gets paid for, but you have to
0:55:54get this thing repaired.
0:55:55But even before that, yeah, it was one of those things.
0:55:58Like I just had it on my desk.
0:56:00Like literally, I just come back from my briefing with Apple.
0:56:02I had on my desk, I think for half an hour and it got like the first like scratch on
0:56:06it.
0:56:06I was like, I didn't even touch this, but it was beautiful.
0:56:09All right.
0:56:10This is, this is kind of weird.
0:56:13Here's a technical detail.
0:56:15And again, reading a chart on a podcast, I realized this is difficult, but all right.
0:56:21The regular M3, not pro, but the regular M3, this has eight CPU cores, four performance,
0:56:30four efficiency, four and four.
0:56:32OK, the M3 pro has 12, six and six, six high performance cores, six efficiency.
0:56:41OK, that sounds like an upgrade over regular, right?
0:56:43You go from four and four to six and six.
0:56:45The M3 Max has 16 cores, but it's 12 high performance and only four efficiency.
0:56:56So you actually lose two of the efficiency cores.
0:57:01I find that to be a very strange configuration matrix.
0:57:06I guess the idea is if you're in the market for Max, you really are hunting high performance,
0:57:16not long battery life, not efficiency.
0:57:19And so that's the reason you're spending all this money.
0:57:22But again, maybe I'm biased by my desire to get the Max just for the RAM.
0:57:29And I'd kind of rather if I were only going to have only going to have 16 CPU cores,
0:57:35I'd rather have 10 performance and still have six efficiency.
0:57:40I think.
0:57:41I don't know.
0:57:42It seems weird that you lose two efficiency cores.
0:57:45I don't know.
0:57:45I don't get it.
0:57:47Yeah, that is interesting.
0:57:48Again, I'm curious to go back to what it was like with the M2 Max and M1 Max to see if
0:57:54the breakdown was that different.
0:57:56And I don't think it was, but yeah, to your point, I mean, this is one thing that I've
0:58:00noticed kind of anecdotally having both the Pro and the Max machines, granted one is a
0:58:0516 inch and one is a 14.
0:58:07So battery life is going to be better on the 16 regardless.
0:58:09But I have noticed like even taking out that sort of thing, I did have to say like my anecdotal
0:58:15opinion over the last two years or so has been that the Pro did have better battery
0:58:21life if you don't need all that RAM and if you really think that the Max is, I think,
0:58:26yeah, I think they're optimizing for the power there.
0:58:29Not to say that the battery life is bad on the Max at all, because it's not.
0:58:33But the battery life on the Pro is better, at least from my experience.
0:58:36Yeah, I think it's going to be.
0:58:38And I kind of asked about that and it's like, again, you don't get a square answer from
0:58:43Apple, but the up to 22 hours of battery life is with the lower end configs.
0:58:48They're actually more power efficient or maybe the M3.
0:58:53I don't know.
0:58:53They don't want to answer.
0:58:55I think because the more money you spend, you actually lose some battery life because
0:58:59you're lighting up more RAM and more CPU cores like the sweet spot for battery life
0:59:07is somewhere in the middle.
0:59:08But I just find these numbers unusual.
0:59:11And the other thing that's unusual.
0:59:13So the base model, the regular M3 chip has three options for RAM.
0:59:19And again, like I just reiterated, this is true for the iMac too.
0:59:22You can go 8, 16 or 24.
0:59:27Well, those to me are very normal computer numbers.
0:59:298, 16 and 24.
0:59:318, 16, 32 would be a little more normal because it's always sort of like a doubling.
0:59:36But I get it.
0:59:37You just keep adding eight.
0:59:38But with the M3 Pro, the two RAM options are 18 gigabytes and 36 gigabytes.
0:59:45Yeah, that's weird.
0:59:46Those are weird computer numbers, right?
0:59:4918 is not a, I don't know how else to say it because it's not a power of two.
0:59:52It's not a computer number.
0:59:54I mean, it's better, right?
0:59:55I'd rather have 18 than 16.
0:59:58I agree.
0:59:59And then to make things weirder too, then at the first level of M3 Max, if you do the 14
1:00:04core, 30 GPU.
1:00:06So the 14 core CPU, 30 core GPU, that one is 36 and 96 are your two options.
1:00:11So, okay, you're tripling or whatever, but like you're tripling.
1:00:15But you're back to computer numbers.
1:00:18Exactly.
1:00:18You are.
1:00:18But although it is now doubled, like the 18 or whatever, but it's 36 and 96.
1:00:25And then once you go up to that 16 core, that's when you can go 48, 64 or 128.
1:00:31That is the interesting thing there too, is that if you want to get the 96 gigabytes of
1:00:35unified memory, you have to get the lower level M3 Max.
1:00:39So your options, really, if you're going to get the high end M3 Max, for all intents and
1:00:45purposes, you can get a 48 gigabytes, but no one's going to do that.
1:00:49It's going to be 64 or 128.
1:00:50Right.
1:00:51I don't get it.
1:00:53I'm sure it all makes sense.
1:00:55But somehow I would need to get Johnny Suruji on the podcast, or maybe Ternus would explain
1:01:02it.
1:01:02But I don't think that they would explain it.
1:01:04They're just like, "Yeah, 18 is better than 16."
1:01:07Yeah, it has to be something I'm assuming with how their cores are working and whether
1:01:13their maximum, like since it's their unified memory or whatever.
1:01:15And that's the only thing I can gather is that they want to be able to dedicate a certain
1:01:18amount of RAM to the GPU.
1:01:20But I don't know.
1:01:21That's just me completely guessing.
1:01:24Yeah.
1:01:24It does seem overall like they're putting more of a gap between the M3 Pro and the M3
1:01:32Max.
1:01:33Right.
1:01:33It's like, and I think the M3 Pro, those are the systems for most people to get.
1:01:38And I know you and I have just spent half the podcast talking about how we love to load
1:01:42up on thousands of dollars of extra RAM for our browser tabs.
1:01:46But the truth is, Apple Silicon machines do swap so fast because of the SSD performance
1:01:53and everything being integrated in a tight way that even if you are a browser hoarder
1:01:59like we are, the 36 or even 24 gigs of RAM is really pretty good.
1:02:07It's not like your machine's going to bog down because you have a bunch of tabs.
1:02:11But it just seems like that's the sweet spot for most users.
1:02:14And you can go up to 36.
1:02:16That's plenty of RAM for most people.
1:02:18Yeah.
1:02:18And it's an improvement over the last gen, which was 32, which was where you could max
1:02:23out on the Pro.
1:02:23So you're getting more RAM.
1:02:24And I will say it's a $2,000 price difference if you're going to go for like the, so an
1:02:30M3 Pro with 12 core, 36 gigs of RAM and a two terabyte SSD.
1:02:34That is like $3,200.
1:02:37And if you get one that is like the model that can go up to 128 gigs of RAM and a two
1:02:43terabyte SSD, that's $5,100.
1:02:46So you're talking about like literally $2,000 difference to have that RAM increase.
1:02:52And if you go from 36 to 64 gigs, that's still like $1,000, $1,200.
1:02:58So it's, I think you're right.
1:03:02I think they're making a much bigger differentiation between the kind of the Pro and the Max.
1:03:06And that's very evident in the pricing, frankly.
1:03:09Yeah.
1:03:09The sweet spot for most people is the M3 Pro chip and those configurations.
1:03:16And there's this almost a chasm pricing wise once you go beyond that.
1:03:23And so if you've either got the money and like me have more money than cents and want
1:03:27to spend it anyway.
1:03:28But for most people when they hear, oh, that's $1,000 or $2,000 difference, they're like,
1:03:33oh, not for me.
1:03:34I'll take the other ones.
1:03:35Forget it.
1:03:35You know, it's not like, oh, it's only a $200 more.
1:03:39And then they're like, oh, I wasn't going to spend that much.
1:03:41Right.
1:03:41No, I'll get it.
1:03:42Yeah, no, they're making it very clear because it's basically like you could get an
1:03:46other laptop.
1:03:46And that's honestly not even a bad way to look at it.
1:03:49Honestly.
1:03:49I know.
1:03:50That's honestly a way you go, okay, you know what?
1:03:52You might want to just get like a well configured like MacBook Air as well as this thing if
1:03:58you really, you know, you could do that for the same prices getting the Max.
1:04:03And so if you don't need all of that, yeah, honestly, now that I'm thinking about that,
1:04:08I'm still going to size queen, but I'm still going to do that.
1:04:13But I think better for other people if you're like, okay, you could get two laptops.
1:04:17Right.
1:04:18For the same price.
1:04:18I guess basically it's like, okay, M3, that's our consumer chip.
1:04:24Yep.
1:04:24Now we put this chip into a pro body at $1600.
1:04:29And what's the upgrade to go from eight to 16 with that machine?
1:04:34Probably $200.
1:04:35Yeah, right.
1:04:37So what is it?
1:04:39$1800, right?
1:04:40$1799.
1:04:41That's a really good laptop, though.
1:04:43It is.
1:04:43Once you bump that up to 16 gigs of RAM.
1:04:46And actually when you do that, yeah, it's $200 to go to 16 gigs of RAM.
1:04:50And it's $400 to go to 24.
1:04:52So depending, although again, I still think if you're really looking at that point,
1:04:58get a MacBook Air.
1:05:00But yeah, but it's a good deal.
1:05:02The M3 Pro is a great chip for most people who are looking for a pro budgeted laptop.
1:05:08And then the M3 Max is really where they're like flexing.
1:05:13They're just like this.
1:05:15There is no comparable laptop hardware like this on the Intel side of the fence.
1:05:20There is no competition and or there's competition, but there's nothing that's in the same ballpark.
1:05:26This is a total flex.
1:05:27It is where Apple is strongest with laptops, right?
1:05:32Everybody knows that with the desktops, their high-end pro level money is no object graphics
1:05:41performance is just not in the same ballpark as Nvidia yet, right?
1:05:46It might be another generation or two.
1:05:50Maybe never.
1:05:50Who knows if they're going to catch up, but they're not.
1:05:52So that's not Apple's strength, but laptop performance is Apple's strength.
1:05:59And they're flexing really, really well.
1:06:02And again, there were so many.
1:06:04I just want to say before we move past this whole segment, I was predicting I wrote a
1:06:10whole column last week saying maybe they're just going to have M2s.
1:06:13And this is they're calling it scary fast because they just want to keep, you know,
1:06:18because if the M3 isn't coming till next year, they just want to spin the M2 as still pretty
1:06:25good, which it would be.
1:06:26And it is if you're buying like a MacBook Air, it's fine.
1:06:29It's really, really good.
1:06:31It is really, really impressive.
1:06:33I just I feel like maybe I haven't taken enough time in this show to just say this is really
1:06:39impressive that they're not just launching the M3 and three nanometer for Apple Silicon
1:06:44in 2023.
1:06:45They're doing it with the pro and the max chips too.
1:06:49Yeah.
1:06:49And it's really they're execution wise, operationally, whatever you want to say, they are
1:06:55firing on all cylinders.
1:06:57Yeah.
1:06:57I did want to ask you about that because in that column, one of the best arguments I thought
1:07:01you made about why we might not see an M3 pro and three max this time was the vision
1:07:08pro, which is supposed to be M2.
1:07:10Now, my question for you is, do you think they change that?
1:07:14That's I have gotten so many I have friends who are hitting me up now I've got a guest
1:07:20on the show hitting me up with this question people I'm asked about it is a super good
1:07:23question.
1:07:24Would they say okay, yes, we told you back in June attempt to but surprise, it's going
1:07:30to have an M3.
1:07:30I guess it's possible, right?
1:07:34I mean, it's certain nobody's going to be disappointed if they said that right now.
1:07:37It's not like and the way that Apple Silicon works developer wise, I don't think it would
1:07:49cause any like a line of code change to anybody, any developer who's like gone all in on developing
1:07:59for vision pro trying to be there on day one with either an all new app or some app that
1:08:06they want to bring to the vision pro quote unquote early next year.
1:08:10And they've spent every day since WWDC working on it and they've gone to the lab and maybe
1:08:19maybe they've qualified for the secretive program where they can get pre release hardware.
1:08:27I don't think saying okay, we're going to ship it with the M3 instead of the M2 is going
1:08:32to cause any problems.
1:08:34It's not like oh, I'd optimize for the M2.
1:08:36No, that's not the way Swift UI works or nothing works like that.
1:08:41It's all just better.
1:08:42So I guess it's possible and if that was their plan all along, of course, they weren't
1:08:49going to say that back in June.
1:08:52But there is a tiny little credibility issue with doing that, right?
1:08:59It's like, I don't know how to say it.
1:09:05There's a part of that that would rub me the wrong way where Apple says blank.
1:09:10They do blank, right?
1:09:12They and it doesn't matter what blank is, they follow through.
1:09:15But I don't see how else they could if the plan all along was to have an M3 and the vision
1:09:19pro quote unquote early next year, I don't know how else they could have done it because
1:09:23they couldn't say well they could they I shouldn't say can't but they wouldn't say it's
1:09:28going to have the M3 when nothing else is shipping with the M3 ad and it wasn't going
1:09:32to be announced till the end of October.
1:09:34And I also don't think they could have not mentioned what chip it has right, right?
1:09:40They can't say it's going to ship with a great Apple Silicon chip and the revolutionary R1
1:09:46chip for the low latency camera to all the stuff the R1 does because if they hadn't said
1:09:52if they just said it's going to have Apple Silicon everybody would have guessed oh it's
1:09:57the M3, right?
1:09:58So I guess they could but I kind of think it's still going to be the M2.
1:10:03I really wouldn't want to bet on this, Christina.
1:10:06To me, I'm like 50/50 on this.
1:10:08I kind of am too and I get your perspective about like feeling maybe sort of misled and
1:10:13whatnot at the same time I feel like if they could swap this out with an M3 I feel like
1:10:19that would just be a win especially since the price of the Vision Pro being what it
1:10:24is and the fact that it's a niche device.
1:10:26I will say as someone who is unclear whether I'm going to be getting one or not and actually
1:10:32if I'm buying this laptop that's probably more in favor of the me not getting a Vision
1:10:38Pro at least at the offset.
1:10:41We'll have to wait to see but I would say that it would be something that would annoy
1:10:44me if I'm looking at okay I'm spending $3,700 on this thing and I don't even have the
1:10:49latest chip.
1:10:50It starts at $3,500.
1:10:53Right, right, right.
1:10:54So I'm starting at this and I don't even have the latest chip and I feel like that
1:10:57would be honestly I think that would annoy me more than whatever disingenuous or oscification
1:11:04they said about the chip when it came out.
1:11:06It's also possible and we don't know, TSMC had delays and they had their own issues and
1:11:13I wonder too given the fact that this event that they did this on a Monday night the whole
1:11:18way this was done this is coming in really hot at least it seems like it.
1:11:22Obviously they've had these things ready to go for weeks because they hasn't produced
1:11:26them all but it does strike me as this was something that didn't and even the various
1:11:32rumors being conflicted I think shows that this was not kind of a guaranteed thing that
1:11:37they were going to hit November to launch these chips so potentially it's one of those
1:11:43things where they were kind of hedging and like okay we don't want to pre-announce or
1:11:46pre-do anything because we don't know if these will be out by the time Vision Pro is
1:11:52out.
1:11:52I sort of think it comes down to and this is far way complete I would say completely
1:11:58outside my area of expertise hard computer hardware engineering.
1:12:02I think it I think maybe it ultimately comes down to like I just said a couple of minutes
1:12:09ago from a software developer side you really don't need to worry about which M series
1:12:16chip and this is true for all of Apple silicon it's true for iPhone chips too right you
1:12:19don't have to target the A17 Pro or the A16 or A15 you just right compile for Apple
1:12:25silicon and it runs great the newer faster the chip the faster your software runs great
1:12:30but for hardware engineering like the hardware engineers making the Vision Pro this is what
1:12:38I just don't know like maybe it's the case that to eke out all of the battery life and
1:12:45the thermals of this thing that's on your face right so the thermals are super super
1:12:51important right there's some kind of fans like what they call it they don't call them
1:12:55fans but a active cooling system or whatever they call it right right right it needs to
1:13:00be cool and so it and if it's all packed into this tiny little thing in front of your
1:13:06face maybe the lead time on eking out every single ounce of performance is such that they
1:13:13kind of needed to design this thing for the known M2 chip 18 months ago yeah and there's
1:13:23they can't they can't just say okay now we can just take that out like a Lego break and
1:13:29put the M3 in there like hardware I think maybe doesn't work like that so if you really
1:13:35made me bet right now I think the Vision Pro will ship with the M2 as they promised I because
1:13:41I I kind of think that it has that kind of lead time no I mean that that's a really good
1:13:46point because as much as these as similar these chips are like you said from a software perspective
1:13:51I don't know anything about the cooling I don't know especially since the the nanometer size
1:13:56is different that would negate it from being a plug and play sort of thing and so if they're
1:13:59going to have to go back and and do significant retooling which again they might have already
1:14:04been in the process of doing who knows but if they weren't then I would I would tend
1:14:08to agree with you it would make it difficult for them to make a switch like that and I think
1:14:15that if you're if we look at the base level performance as much as Apple loves to show
1:14:20their graphs and talk about how much better performance is and and use a big you know
1:14:23two and a half times 40 percent better this and that I don't think that it's going to
1:14:29be that significant for again like from from a user perspective right especially if the
1:14:34hardware is being or the software is being used the way that it is and so yeah I think
1:14:39that's probably a good point. Speculating on exactly this point with readers and mastodon
1:14:45followers and everybody asking me do you think that if they do go to M3 for the Mac they'll
1:14:50upgrade the vision pro to M3 automatically or whatever you want to say it I went back
1:14:56and reread the vision pro marketing page on the website and went down to the performance
1:15:01section and as and it also matches what I remember from the the spiel during the WWDC
1:15:09keynote that and and I also I don't think it's spin I think it's true that the performance
1:15:18story for vision pro is more about the R1 than the M chip whatever M chip it is and
1:15:25it is still the CPU and it is the GPU and so it's not like CPU and GPU don't matter
1:15:32on the vision pro but it's the R1 yeah that really sets it apart they don't brag like they
1:15:39like Steve Jobs nobody can brag like Steve Jobs did but Steve Jobs when they announced the
1:15:44original iPhone and said we're five years ahead of the nobody else is within five years of the iPhone
1:15:50which kind of turned out to be true I don't know I think that the best Android phone that was
1:15:56comparable it wasn't quite five years I remember kind of doing ballpark math for yeah performance
1:16:02and specs and stuff it was probably two and a half three or three or four three four it depends
1:16:06which Android phone you want I was gonna say I think that by the time they got to the their own
1:16:10chips once they got to the iPhone 4 I don't think it was a competition anymore I think that once
1:16:16it was but why but the the first iPhone they were so far ahead from the user experience and the
1:16:22passive screen and everything else and then Android ships a year later it is not in a place
1:16:28where it could really compete then so you're really at two years I think probably before
1:16:33Android could could even be quasi in the same conversation but I think that once Apple started
1:16:38doing its own chips like that that was a completely different ball game but I yeah I get I just get
1:16:44the feeling like if you pose that question to Rockwell or Jaws or or Tim Cook or whoever you
1:16:52thought would give a good answer where where do you think Vision Pro is the furthest ahead
1:16:56of any other company in the headset space I think the R1 chip would be their answer as to where
1:17:03they're the furthest ahead and it combines with the displays but they're not making the displays
1:17:08they're buying the displays from Sony and they might be buying all of them you know sort of like
1:17:13the way they've sort of like the way they've effectively bought up all of TSMC's three nanometer
1:17:19production for the near term so it is so those displays inside the Vision Pro are sort of an
1:17:27Apple exclusive but because they're not the ones who make them whereas the R1 is their design and
1:17:33it's all theirs mine mine mine nobody else has the R1 but I kind of feel like that's the performance
1:17:39story and that's how they'll well how are they going to debut this thing with an M2 it's $3,500
1:17:44and by the the earliest they're going to do it is January right and so it'll already be three
1:17:52months not the the latest and greatest and that's if it is January you know February or March totally
1:17:59I think you make a great point I think the thing there too I mean like I said this is just me
1:18:04is more like being annoyed from like a looking at as a as a consumer who's all about speeds and feeds
1:18:09although that shouldn't really necessarily be what we judge it on but to your point look even though
1:18:13they don't make the the screens Sony does that R1 is why you have the low latency and why you have
1:18:20the refresh rate I haven't experienced the Vision Pro but everybody who I've talked to who has has
1:18:24been blown away and and the fact that the clarity is what it is the responsiveness is what it is
1:18:30that's what sells it the same way that the Apple didn't make the the first chip in in the iPhone
1:18:36right but it was the responsiveness of the UI it was the fact that you could reach to Zoom
1:18:40it was that whole fluid thing even though you didn't have multitasking and you couldn't
1:18:44send an MMS or or like like if there were I forgot about that there were deficiencies
1:18:51but it didn't matter because the interface I mean it was just such a didn't have apps but it was
1:18:56such a huge step forward that I think that the only company that is is conceivably even in the
1:19:03conversation is meta and what they're doing with like the Quest Pro 3 and and and and all that
1:19:09stuff is like not even it's again it's not even in the same conversation like it's like it's like
1:19:14it's like okay well this is cute this is the one that was actually going to go forward and that's
1:19:19because they've got the entire experience there so maybe it doesn't really matter like the
1:19:23technicalities of what chip is in it as long as they can get all those things working together
1:19:27to deliver that experience because that's what's going to make or break the Vision Pro is is that
1:19:32experience yeah and I I just kind of and I'd be happy if I'm wrong that if they can make them as
1:19:37fast as they want but I just kind of feel from it it's largely based on on the supply chain rumors
1:19:46about these displays right but the displays will be the constraining element of this whole thing
1:19:53and I kind of feel like there will be enough demand I you know for this first generation one
1:19:59that I I think it's going to be back ordered all year oh yeah and maybe we'll loosen up by the time
1:20:06Christmas rolls around but then by that time it'll be 10 months old and it's questionable whether
1:20:11people should be buying it or waiting for right vision pro 2 or the of course non-pro version
1:20:19of the thing which Gurman's already got some reports about that one of the ways they're
1:20:22going to save money is not having the front-facing eyesight display but I really think that they're
1:20:29going to be they're going to sell them as fast as they can make them at 3500 all year long whether
1:20:35it has the m2 or not they could actually I honestly think that they could say you know what
1:20:40we actually downgraded it to the m1 I think you're right I think you're right and in fact I'm sure
1:20:44that early iterations of it probably were using an m1 right like I mean right I guess yeah I mean
1:20:49they had that then right because as long as they've been working on this so they I think I
1:20:53think to your point yeah especially if the supply constraint is going to be those Sony displays and
1:20:58and I'm sure they're buying every single one that Sony can make but you know just just as for many
1:21:03years they bought every single sensor that Sony could make for the smartphone cameras and they
1:21:08still buy the majority of the ones that Sony makes there but yeah I mean I think I think that's
1:21:14yeah I think that they're not gonna have any problem being sold out on this thing and again
1:21:18I don't as much as again like it would be you feel in some way a little bit of a slight at the other
1:21:24end if you're buying this product which starts at 3500 that is very niche and is going to have a very
1:21:30kind of specific kind of market at least in the beginning I think that it I still stand by the
1:21:35fact that this is as cool as this looks this is still a product that is going to be searching for
1:21:41that product market fit for quite some time I don't know how much it matters with that first
1:21:47gen it's kind of like the first gen iPad where a lot of us bought it and we loved it and we knew
1:21:52what it represented but it was that iPad 2 that was really the one that everybody got into that
1:21:58was thinner that had the better battery life that was was a just leaps and bounds better but you
1:22:05have to you have to start somewhere and so it doesn't really matter I'm so glad you thought
1:22:09to bring it up though because if we would have ended this show without without talking about
1:22:13the vision pro what are they going to do about the M chip and the vision pro I would have I would
1:22:17have lost my mind I would have like I would have been like calling you at four in the morning like
1:22:21you can get to talk about it no can you hop back on and well no because because that was one of the
1:22:25reasons why I was kind of on team I don't know if they're going to release an M3 I know right me too
1:22:31because you made a really compelling case I was like well it definitely threw me off yeah I'm
1:22:35happy to say I'm wrong I'm I'm all I'm so glad to be wrong because this this M3 lineup is great and
1:22:41I'm glad I'm glad the pros and the max are out already and it's all seems too good to be true
1:22:47and again so much for the supply chain stuff like that supply chain rumor was that the A17 pro
1:22:55alone was going to max out TSMC's three nanometer production it at least at scale yeah apparently
1:23:02not for this while I mentioned that for the super nerds out there in terms of which three
1:23:08nanometer production process they're on they they would not say so I don't know and you know
1:23:14will I guess we'll find out somehow soon ish I guess when people start buying them or somebody
1:23:20takes them apart but I I don't know the answer to that and quite frankly I I don't care I was gonna
1:23:26say I don't care either I'm just glad we're three nanometer which is incredibly impressive that's
1:23:30what ATP is for yeah I was gonna say ATP can get into that and and yeah I fix it other people can
1:23:36can buy them and delib them and and go through that process of figuring that stuff out which
1:23:40would be very interesting I'd love to learn about it but I also I'm with you I kind of don't care I
1:23:46mean like I care in terms of like it's interesting but it's not going to make any difference to me
1:23:50about the fact that I want this black laptop all right let me take a break here and thank our
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1:26:57continuing support of the show what were we talking about before I took that break
1:27:02I guess we finished up with some of the three nanometer stuff oh that's right that's right
1:27:08oh here's I know what I wanted to ask you sorry keep on this vision pro what are they going to do
1:27:15again stick with the m2 as they promised or are they going to surprise us with an m3 here's my
1:27:20question on that front and a lot of people like I said a lot a lot of listeners and readers have
1:27:26been asking me about this all week I'm not at all surprised that they didn't mention it in the event
1:27:33right and if they're not going to change it of course they didn't but let's just say they are
1:27:38let's say it is going they are going to happily surprise us and upgrade the original first gen
1:27:44vision pro to the m3 there's no way that they were going to mention it during the event tonight
1:27:50because the event was focused on things you could buy and it was all mac all mac and all stuff that's
1:27:56on sale as you and I speak right now by the time anybody listens to this you can already buy it
1:28:01everything except the m3 max is shipping next week and they they told me when they said sometime in
1:28:08november and apparently not even that late in november I don't know like middle of the month
1:28:12that the m3 max configurations aren't going to be that far behind but they wouldn't say exactly but
1:28:19uh I there's no way they were going to mention that in the in the in the show it's too distracting
1:28:24right because it's the big shiny thing on the horizon it's it's it's like looking into the sun
1:28:30and then trying to look at something else you're once they mention vision pro even at the end
1:28:34everybody's going to forget about all this great new max stuff but here's my question would
1:28:38would they wait until the second the the launch event of the vision pro and surprise us right
1:28:46there on stage or would they make like a press release announcement later this month and just say
1:28:54oh by the way customers love the m3 is when our new macbook pros and the new imax and we're happy
1:29:01to say it's going to be in the vision pro in a press release to sort of take that just not not
1:29:08to take it off the table but to sort of uh reduce the enthusiasm for vision pro I think that they
1:29:18would say it at like the main event like I think that it would be one of those like special like
1:29:24and and one more thing and guess what it's even better than we promised right because then then
1:29:29I feel like that would be like it would make people even more exuberant like not only are we
1:29:33bringing this out within the time frame we said we were going to and it's going to have all this
1:29:37stuff but we made it even better when we started this out we said that it was going to be the m2
1:29:42but now we've actually been able to get the latest processors latest and greatest in in these
1:29:47headsets so it's going to be even more powerful blah blah blah blah blah that was my first
1:29:54thought but then I thought but but they're all pre-recorded now so they can't do it they're not
1:29:59going to be able to play for applause right yeah that's true so I've kind of my my first thought
1:30:06was that they'll save it for the event because I know they're going to have another event and
1:30:10people have even asked me do you think they're going to have another event and of course they
1:30:13will right it's it's the the the playbook is the apple watch playbook you announce the product
1:30:20one year and say it's coming next year and then when it comes the next year then you have a
1:30:26dedicated event just for that product that's exactly what they did with apple watch in 2014
1:30:32introductions slash 15 when it shipped or what or 13 and 4 whatever two years it was and they're
1:30:40going to do that again they're going to have a special event is surely at steve jobs theater for
1:30:45the media just for the vision pro quote unquote early next year I could see them waiting for it
1:30:51but I kind of wonder I kind of feel like they're sneaky that way where they they'd love to have
1:30:59like a little hey you know the the vision pro which is going to be awesome which was going to
1:31:05be awesome just the way we promised it is going to be awesomer I don't know yeah but just just after
1:31:16the enthusiasm for these m3 mac announcements cools off that would be the time that I would
1:31:23expect something like that that's true I mean and I think you bring up a good point that these are
1:31:27no longer live events which is sad to me because that would be it would be a great mic drop moment
1:31:32right like these are things would be great with with an actual audience I hope that we can get
1:31:37back to that point someday like I like that they can do these highly produced things I also do miss
1:31:42the the experience of live to be honest right so but but that's a good point without having that
1:31:49benefit of live I do think that you do lose a tremendous amount of the but wait there's more
1:31:55aspect so yeah I think that's true I think that maybe when things are tapered down that would be
1:32:01good almost like what we call like a second day story we like to juice the cycle once more so I
1:32:08don't know I say stay tuned but it's exciting because we don't know yeah it is exciting I kind
1:32:13of thought this whole event was kind of fun because we didn't know what was coming and people were all
1:32:18over the map I was going to say that was the fun thing about this is that this is first time in a
1:32:22really long time where there was a lot of just there were conflicting reports and we didn't know
1:32:27what it was going to be and we knew it was gonna be max I mean they made that clear and by showing
1:32:32the the black finder I was like okay are we going to get a black mac book like that was my deepest
1:32:37like like want but but I still to be completely honest like I was like well I really want a black
1:32:44mac book but I did not I I was like they're probably just going to give us like another
1:32:47colored iMac or something right right and I was pleasantly surprised but yeah this was nice this
1:32:52was one of those nice things that a it kind of came out of nowhere b it was a last minute
1:32:56sort of thing c okay we we can talk about the fact that it was a little bit weird to do this
1:33:01on a Monday night but yeah I'll also say they did it in half an hour like it was very tight
1:33:0730 minutes which I very much applaud them for as somebody who's worked on events both pre-recorded
1:33:13and not like to get that in into a 30 minute like tight like way that it was done was good it flowed
1:33:19well and it was it was a nice surprise like it was a not something we were expecting because usually
1:33:26we know well in advance they're going to be doing these mac events and this was this was a nice
1:33:31surprise especially the fact that we got so much right like I I I was kind of expecting just kind
1:33:36of like a mediocre kind of traditional like spec bump and it wasn't that I think that the fact that
1:33:42we killed the touch bar finally rest in hell die in a fire never come back god I hate the touch bar
1:33:49I don't hate the touch bar itself I don't but I also don't love it I'm like the only person who's
1:33:54like ambivalent and I've been I've felt the same way about it ever since they first launched yeah
1:33:58it's like I tried with it I really tried to make it work the only good thing about the touch bar
1:34:02there were two good things one was the fingerprint sensor which was obviously like amazing and two was
1:34:08I did really appreciate it was a very easy way to raise the brightness or the volume on your laptop
1:34:13like that was I would use those sliders for that everything else I was like yeah this is going to
1:34:18get in my way but you know like they but they gave us with this event like it looks like there's some
1:34:24real performance improvements but also like this was a really solid lineup of of I think making the
1:34:30mac lineup finally unified I'm a little disappointed that they never took like a second
1:34:35crack at the at the touch bar yeah right that they just sort of like ah well forget it I don't know I
1:34:41and I wonder like did they have like I'm sure they had ideas oh yeah far how far did they take them
1:34:48for like okay okay the first one wasn't that great but but what if but what if and reimagined I
1:34:54wonder I wonder if the touch bar was so associated with the butterfly keyboard that you know what I
1:34:59mean even though they were separate but I wonder what was so associated with that that it was like
1:35:03okay we need to just get away from this as quickly as possible the one thing weird about the touch
1:35:08part of me always and this actually was the case I remember when apple showed it to me
1:35:11at like the event because I had to fly out to to see it um I think I I um I could have gone locally
1:35:18but I think I flew out to to look at the mac event I remember this because Microsoft had an event the
1:35:22day before and then I had to get on an airplane and like fly across the country to go see the
1:35:26laptops was that the touch bar more than any other laptop experience I'd ever had made me for the
1:35:33first time actually touch the screen of my macbook which is not a mistake I've ever made but there
1:35:39was this weird kind of disconnector I was like okay you're trying to do this but if you to me
1:35:44it's like shit or get off the pot like either put a touch screen on the mac which I think is inevitable
1:35:50at some at a certain point or don't but it felt like it was again kind of like this half-seized
1:35:57thing that they they didn't really succeed either way but I did appreciate being able to raise the
1:36:01volume or the the brightness on my laptop and obviously having the fingerprints and so it was
1:36:06great what else did you think about the broadcast whatever you want to call the keynote what about
1:36:11the halloween spooky framing that was cute that was cute it was a little bit distracting at some
1:36:17points that they had like the background like the halloween like background music going on like
1:36:22throughout the entire time I was like okay that that is a choice but I did appreciate that I
1:36:28thought that with the whole black thing like that that fit the time of year the way they kind of
1:36:33swooped in on on Tim I wish he'd been wearing like a Dracula costume or something like I think that
1:36:38would really really you really would have no if you were there you would have no I mean I mean
1:36:42yes but but but no Tim Cook is never going to do that I'm just saying like I appreciate like
1:36:47if they leaned into the camp a little bit more I wouldn't have been mad but I also wouldn't expect
1:36:52them to right because it's Apple but no I thought I thought was well so I did something interesting
1:36:57this year I did not this event rather I did not watch it on like the official Apple website or the
1:37:04app the TV app I watched it on YouTube and I found that to be a better experience and have
1:37:10less of the latency issues that sometimes happens from the official apps because they struggle with
1:37:16their CDN stuff to be able to get it out to as many people and so you will have an instance where
1:37:21I will have it up on three different devices and it'll be at different points on every single
1:37:26device with however much of a buffer there might be and and I tried it this time I was like let's
1:37:31see what the YouTube thing is like and look you can make a lot of criticisms about YouTube and
1:37:36I definitely have but the one thing they know how to do correctly is like video and especially live
1:37:41streams and so I do it I did appreciate that they've started to simulcast these things because
1:37:48frankly like yeah use Google servers I mean have your own do your own thing but but use somebody
1:37:53who's like this is literally what they're the best in the world at I think it's telling that
1:37:58unless I'm missing somebody everybody puts their stuff on YouTube oh yeah I mean Apple the fact
1:38:05that Apple live streams it on YouTube I know Microsoft puts all of their stuff on YouTube
1:38:12you know and that was a fight keynotes that was a fight it that I think meta does meta does
1:38:17everybody does yeah and I have to say I can speak for the Microsoft part of it because when I worked
1:38:22there there was a contention of executives who did not want to do anything on YouTube because
1:38:27competitor and I very I didn't know what I was getting into this was for Microsoft build the
1:38:33first year that I was involved in and stuff with that so this was 2018 I was very like loud and
1:38:39like vociferous I was like we have to be on YouTube this is where everyone goes this is the number two
1:38:43search engine in the world I don't we can use our own player and whatnot but we have to have this
1:38:48content there and we have to simulcast because this is literally where everyone is and not only
1:38:53that but our own platform at the time that Microsoft owned they had a mixer which was like
1:38:58their take on Twitch didn't actually fit the accessibility requirements that the company had
1:39:03so that was how I was able to win was I was they were like oh we have to we should live stream on
1:39:08mixer and I was like okay so are we going to burn the captions like what are we going to do because
1:39:12it doesn't match our our company's accessibility requirements so we could just use YouTube one but
1:39:19but that was that was a hard thing to get over but although now like six years later no one would
1:39:25question it right and I think even that says a lot about Apple the fact that they will live stream
1:39:29their events there because I think you just at a certain point have to recognize how important the
1:39:34destination is and I don't I don't think anybody at Apple is happy about it I'm sure they're not
1:39:38but I think they also I don't think there's any real debate anymore I don't know when there was
1:39:43I'm sure there was I'm sure there was like because none of those companies like each other I don't
1:39:47know draw connections between them and there's some where there's sort of detente right like
1:39:56Apple and Amazon I don't know they're not really enemies but they're also not really partners I
1:40:01guess app supposedly maybe still uses AWS for some of the back end but I don't think you know I think
1:40:06that's less and less it's less and less from what I understand they still use AWS and they still use
1:40:11GCP for some things but more and more of it I'm sure is their own but no I mean those those are
1:40:16things that are always like I work at GitHub where we are like we have to be agnostic kind of to
1:40:22everyone although I'm sure that plenty of companies hate that they put their source code on us but
1:40:26they're also kind of like okay well what else are we going to do with it like if we want people to
1:40:31actually be able to access this and and share about it like it's kind of a similar situation
1:40:35to YouTube like you kind of have to be there and it is is yeah so yeah GitHub is to source code
1:40:42what YouTube is to video basically yeah I enjoy it because I can be like kind of I feel like I'm
1:40:48Switzerland right like I don't have to pick a side I'm like hey we want everybody we don't care who
1:40:53you are just push your code you host your code with us but yeah I was I watched on YouTube and
1:40:59I was very happy with that experience and I'm glad that they are now simulcasting that like I
1:41:05I'm sure they're not happy about it but again like good that's the better user experience decision
1:41:10is it just me I kind of feel like maybe one of the bits it's not quite campiness and it certainly
1:41:17wasn't a costume but I kind of feel like in my opinion Johnny Suruji is a bit of a scary dude
1:41:22he always always and I kind of feel like they he played it up on this he was like welcome to my lab
1:41:30yes yeah and I almost feel like it sort of played up his Israeli accent as sort of Transylvanian you
1:41:37know actually that's a good point welcome to my underground laboratory and it's like I he has an
1:41:44intensity always has every time he's in a keynote there's a certain intensity to him that I'm like
1:41:49whoa dude chill out but I'm glad you're there because maybe that intensity is what's driving
1:41:56their silicon forward I'm sure it is insane pace but it it his intensity matched the Halloween
1:42:04spooky theme of this in a way and and his counterpart on hardware John Ternus yeah comes
1:42:09across as like ah what a nice guy I'd love to put my arm around him and have a beer with John Ternus
1:42:14what a swell guy I was gonna say it was a nice dichotomy there it really was kind of a great
1:42:18trick-or-treat thing and I do have to give them credit like if you're gonna do the event
1:42:22on a Monday night if you're gonna like lean into the dark theme like I you know like well done
1:42:28again I think this is about as campy as Apple could go which is fine but I I didn't hate it I
1:42:35I still think it's so weird for them to do a night event yeah I do too I I guess I I think
1:42:41ultimately it just came down to well if we're gonna play into the Halloween theme why don't
1:42:45we broadcast it at night too right yeah the only other thing was sorry go ahead no go ahead we're
1:42:51at the timing like 8 p.m eastern that's one thing but I'm thinking like okay this is like
1:42:56two o'clock three o'clock in the morning in Europe right that's the that was the only part of it that
1:43:00was weird for me was like okay yeah it's because I'm on the west coast so for me it was fine
1:43:06but on the east coast prime time whatever but and then I'm thinking okay so to me it really did kind
1:43:12of strike me as okay this is a very US centric event maybe more than even any of their others
1:43:17just because the timing was definitely not European friendly yeah yeah but on the other hand
1:43:23Apple is so worldwide now that they can never win right so when they have when they have a 10 a.m
1:43:28pacific uh keynote that's one eastern and that means and I just know this because I
1:43:37do dithering with Ben Thompson it's like seven Taiwan no Taiwan is exactly 12 hours apart from
1:43:43from the east coast right so from right except for the four months of the year when we're in
1:43:51not in daylight savings time then it's 11 hours difference I forget I already forget which way it
1:43:56goes but close enough it's 12 hours difference so like Ben and I usually record dithering at 8 pm
1:44:03my time he wakes up takes his kids to school and it's 8 a.m his time but it's it's such an easy way
1:44:10for me I'm not good at time zones I even just going from east coast to west coast I'm always
1:44:14confused like it's like I I've done it for so many times so many years it's just three time zones it
1:44:22or or four time zones in the U.S but I've still after all these years I'll like get a phone call
1:44:28from my wife and I'm like you're still up and it's like yeah she'll be like it's you know it's like
1:44:33five o'clock in California she's like it's eight o'clock I don't go to bed I'm like oh yeah that's
1:44:37right I I still get confused but you can't win because those those keynotes aren't a good time
1:44:43for Asia you're right to market yeah yeah you're right the year our European friends were the the
1:44:50the people who had to suffer for this one though no for sure because it was midnight in in the UK
1:44:54and and in 1 am in Paris so one other thing I I've mentioned this a few times recently and it seems
1:45:02like a lot of other people haven't noticed it and for some reason it just sticks out to me but
1:45:05at least for the the entire run of the modern pre-recorded Apple keynote for iPhones every
1:45:17single one of them when they do the iPhone event uh Kyan Drance introduces the non-pro models
1:45:25and it's brightly lit daytime and then and she goes first because you save the best for last
1:45:31and then Jaws introduces the pro models and every time in those keynotes they go to nighttime and
1:45:39they pretend it's nighttime at Apple Park and it's dark right and we're and even if Jaws is standing
1:45:46in front of the same screen or fake screen at CGI den or green screened in in Steve Jobs theater
1:45:52anti-rumor whatever you call that chamber up top it's dark and it's nighttime because dark is pro
1:45:59and light is not so we've seen Apple Park at in these keynotes at nighttime before but it's only
1:46:06and always only for the iPhone pro models so the whole having the whole event pretend to be
1:46:12nighttime at Apple Park was new I just kind of feel like they just wanted to shake it up yeah
1:46:17yeah I think that I think they did and I liked it I thought that it was good it was one of those
1:46:21things that made me happy because I was like okay you know what like we've seen how you do this the
1:46:27normal way this is actually really nice to see it done a little bit differently just because like I
1:46:32said I miss the live events there is I really respect what they do with their pre-records
1:46:38and I think that they do a really nice job they obviously are very highly produced
1:46:41very exacting I do miss the the live aspect because I think there's a certain fun that
1:46:47comes with live that you an energy that you miss but I did appreciate they're like okay
1:46:51they're experimenting more they're able to kind of have fun I felt like the team who edited it
1:46:56had fun like that came through and and I think that came through even like with that that lifted
1:47:01up the entire experience here's something did you notice this or did you close your youtube
1:47:06stream before the end I I don't even know why I was still watching but I was going waited for
1:47:11the they don't have a lot of credits but at the end it said shot on iphone edited on mac so they
1:47:19shot they shot that whole thing on iphones oh I missed that that's actually that's fantastic
1:47:24it's I would not have guessed by looking at it it's like damn no I would not have guessed that
1:47:30either that's really great actually yeah really kind of amazing and I wonder it does shooting at
1:47:37night time help with that because you don't have to worry so much about depth of field and stuff
1:47:41like is that going to be true going forward I wonder but it was I mean they're they're in a
1:47:46studio environment for I'm sure a lot of that they have even when they're outdoors they've got massive
1:47:50lights and stuff set up so I don't know how much that matters to be honest with you but but it
1:47:54looked good it looked great yeah but that is actually amazing that it was shot on I mean that's
1:47:58that's a big flex shot on iphone edited on mac like obviously the way that they're going to shoot
1:48:03on an iphone is going to be different in the way most people can because again they're going to
1:48:06have lights out the wazoo I will say one of the things sorry go on well I'm just I want to make
1:48:13a joke shot on studio display yes there we go okay see that would be a horror film truly oh my god
1:48:20definitely like the Blair Witch right yeah like that okay that that's good that's good yeah shout
1:48:24out to you that's the real horror story no what I was going to say though is I don't know how much
1:48:28video like poor case if you've done on your iphone 15 pro max but like you have to basically connect
1:48:36like a external SSD to it if you want to get like the best frames and it's been funny because I've
1:48:42been seeing people do that and I'm like yep this is basically the same as with any good actual
1:48:49camera system which is a similar sort of scenario so I'm just picturing them on these mounts with
1:48:54maybe I don't know if they had extra lenses on top or what they were doing and just you know SSDs
1:48:58hanging off and things plugged into power and all kinds of stuff I haven't shot like that because I
1:49:04don't do serious video so I mean I've shot video with my iphone 15 pro but I don't shoot pro raw
1:49:10you know yeah I did it just to test it and it was good because for me it's one of those things I was
1:49:15like I'm thinking about when I do like remote video setup stuff for youtube's things that I do
1:49:21like actually I think the camera is now good enough that I don't have to travel with my micro
1:49:27four thirds or whatever the format is my sony camera I don't have to travel without anymore
1:49:33and so which is which is great I'll bet though now that you bring that up though I'll bet that
1:49:38explains why I think this is the first keynote that they've said that about and I'll bet that's
1:49:44why yeah because this is the first time they have iphones yeah it's yeah it's not so much that the
1:49:50camera system and sensor is better even though they are right incrementally better it's that
1:49:54they can shoot and I linked to stew match which is good pro lost I was like thank you for explaining
1:50:01this to me because I had no idea but that whole explanation about shooting in that log which looks
1:50:06off the can't off the phone looks so desaturated but that's because you're it's got all this data
1:50:13that you can use to color it the way you want so I'll bet that's the explanation for why this is
1:50:18the first one that they've shot on iphone because they could shoot it with the iphone 15 pro
1:50:23with the SSD shooting and it's pro raw right or yeah or no it was pro res it's it's yeah pro res
1:50:33pro res yeah pro raw is the still format but yeah the the pro res format and then they can color it
1:50:41perfectly the coloring is the big deal I think honestly I think that's the biggest reason why
1:50:45because you would previously be able to use tools like thulmuk and there are some other third-party
1:50:49apps that would be really good but the fact that you could have it in pro res which means you could
1:50:54natively bring it into final cut and then with the s log be able to color match it to fit what their
1:51:00requirements would be but it's still really impressive that they did that on the iphone
1:51:04because I had no idea I would not have expected that like I would I would have assumed that they
1:51:07used their red systems or whatever they usually use are so one last little postscript to the
1:51:13episode that you and I were chatting about before a little bit bittersweet matt matthew perry died
1:51:20what two days ago as we record gut punch ran and of all things it was the first person to tell me
1:51:27it was my son he texted the group he was like matthew perry died and it's like oh man and it's
1:51:31like that I think it's the first time my son ever broke bad news to me and he's at college but it's
1:51:36like he I don't know somehow you know he's he's 19 so he's obviously on his phone right all the
1:51:42time somehow got the news like instantly but man what a gut punch I love that guy um I'd always so
1:51:49funny link to a couple of remembrances friends was a great it's the reason people still watch it it
1:51:57really is just a fantastic show and it's so hard to say oh well matthew perry now that he's the
1:52:02first one to die it's like oh well he was the the linchpin of the whole show they were every single
1:52:08one of the six characters right they were all essential yeah and you couldn't take any one of
1:52:12them out without the the balance falling apart there was a certain that was it's part of the
1:52:18genius of the show is they got it all the way up to six lead characters who were all essential
1:52:24but I will say that the thing for me was that matthew perry's chandler felt the most like I
1:52:32identified with him you know sarcasm you know he was so funny no and he really did make that role
1:52:40his own I mean I think that it was alan stephen well who you linked to his remembrance and he did
1:52:44point out like he didn't have a lot of lines in the pilot but some of the ones he did he nailed
1:52:49it and that first season which is the first half of that first season I think it really the show
1:52:53came into its own completely by the time that first season ended but the first probably like
1:52:58six or seven episodes they're all figuring things out and all of them except for courtney cox were
1:53:03really green like she had tons of experience and she was cast first and and I think if you were
1:53:09going to argue like who was sort of like especially the earlier sort of the linchpin it probably would
1:53:13be her but I think that the way that he played his role which could have been this kind of
1:53:18douchebag kind of asshole guy who you don't really like that much he brought like a sense of
1:53:26vulnerability and and humor and just like he was really really good I always loved chandler chandler
1:53:32was always one of my favorite characters and and he was just you could you got the sense that a lot
1:53:37of the humor really was not from the script but was from him and which especially that first season
1:53:43like poor matt leblanc was not great at at first which is completely okay he got very very good
1:53:50but like matthew perry like he seemed like a lot of his humor really was completely injected into
1:53:56that script and it it came across that way and it was did your son watch friends because I know
1:54:01yes yeah no he did he did the very now completely stereotypical like thing where like I don't know
1:54:08six or seven years ago like as when he was like 13 or so yeah just binge the whole thing yeah start
1:54:14to finish and did the did the thing that everybody my age is like oh my god I'm gonna right I'm gonna
1:54:20kill you before you're out of the house he was like did you guys ever hear the show friends and you're
1:54:23like I swear to god and you're like okay you're dead like I'm absolutely like like I'm giving you
1:54:27up for the adoption even though you're 13 did we hear friends it's like on the one hand I'm so glad
1:54:33he watched it and loved it because my wife and I both liked it I would never say it was my all-time
1:54:37favorite show but I watched it you know everybody watched it yeah I mean how can you who didn't
1:54:42watch it and it's like so it's so cool that it's another show yeah that we could talk about but
1:54:47it's like did you guys ever hear of friends I think what do you tell her well no that's the thing I
1:54:51mean it's hard to explain to people who weren't because I was I think I was like 10 or 11 when it
1:54:55premiered and so it was my my adolescence like that it was on basically like like and then it's
1:55:01never not been on the air right it's it's unfortunately the big bang theory is the last
1:55:06great american sitcom in terms of the traditional sense and that's not even a great sitcom but it is
1:55:09the last real one but friends I think is the last one that will like live on forever in in the same
1:55:15way that things like I Love Lucy and All in the Family and things like that like lived on forever
1:55:20like Friends is one of those that you just generationally people just discovered and just
1:55:24doesn't matter that it was 30 years ago like it still works yeah Seinfeld is up there too and they
1:55:30were they were on part they were almost like paired together they were part of this Thursday
1:55:33night juggernaut on NBC but in some I liked Seinfeld better I did too I did too but but
1:55:41but it's Friends has the heart yeah and it seems like Friends has more legs yes 25 years later
1:55:4720 years later yeah it does well because it's more approachable I mean Seinfeld had the critical
1:55:54acclaim and obviously it's very funny and very good and my favorite show but like but Friends
1:55:58which came out a few years later I think is just it's a more accessible show it's a more mainstream
1:56:02show and I think that it was a real testament to like those actors frankly and for all negotiating
1:56:09together so right it was huge news at the time but that they stuck together and I guess by the end of
1:56:17it I think it was pretty I think it was pretty clear by the time they got to like the we're
1:56:25going to negotiate every year for 20 million dollars each yeah per season or whatever that
1:56:30it was very clear I think by that time that Jennifer Aniston was the one who's to start yeah
1:56:36I mean hindsight's 20/20 but I think it was clear at the time that she had the best
1:56:40chance of becoming like a movie star right and did but the fact that they were just like you know
1:56:46we're all going to take the same amount we're not going to note not one of the six of us is going to
1:56:50nickel and dime over 20 versus 25 million or over and we're all just going to do it together
1:56:55you're either going to sign us all for the same amount or rolled out which which worked is
1:56:59honestly what they were going to do that for seasons they were going to cut Matt LeBlanc
1:57:03and and David Schwimmer who had come from theater and who I think also probably recognized that
1:57:08even though Ross and Rachel was a great through line I think he probably was smart enough to
1:57:13recognize I don't have the same appeal like on camera or anything else as these other two guys
1:57:19so it behooves me for basically he was the one who convinced them all to negotiate together because
1:57:24they had different contracts that first season but after the show blew up they all worked together and
1:57:30like they I think they even had like a strike or something like where they refused to go in and
1:57:34Warner Brothers was pissed but I mean Warner Brothers has made more money off of that show
1:57:39than probably any show in its entire history and he was a huge part of that and when you talk about
1:57:44like movie success obviously Jennifer Aniston you're right like she's had a big career but
1:57:48he was in some hits like the last nine yards and like a couple other things like he was in were
1:57:54really really big films and very funny but you and I we were talking about Studio 60 which was
1:58:01our favorite show it was yeah yeah and I I it warmed my heart how many people wrote to me and
1:58:07said yes I love that show too so many people but and I do think it was so weird I won't like well
1:58:13I will I was gonna say I'm not gonna rehash what I wrote but I will I'll just say that it was such
1:58:17a weird show it was a like a Romana Clef about a a Saturday Night Live like show except it was in
1:58:24LA not New York right but it's the oddest thing is it debuted the exact same year as 30 Rock which
1:58:32was also about a Saturday Night Live like show except was a zany sitcom instead of an Aaron
1:58:39Sorkin drama right same year on the same network NBC and I I've never never stopped thinking that
1:58:49there wasn't room for both wasn't there wasn't and and they both hated that the other was was
1:58:55right like Aaron Sorkin was very shitty frankly about 30 Rock like he was he was like he and the
1:59:01press the time like he kind of like thought that they were under beneath him and and I think
1:59:07everybody at the time because you know this is obviously coming off the success of of the West
1:59:10Wing and this is his big kind of comeback because he was let go of the West Wing because it was
1:59:15getting caught in the airport with drugs and so this was kind of his comeback thing and the West
1:59:19Wing was obviously this massive amazing show and huge hit for NBC and all we knew about Tina Fey
1:59:25was she was a head writer on SNL and and she was funny in those sketches but this is 2006 so like
1:59:30she hasn't done the Sarah Palin thing yet right like so it was well and and the other thing about
1:59:3530 Rock I don't think there was I don't I can't recall a show that was like 30 Rock no had it had
1:59:41such a different it did I mean it was a little bit like I would say it got a lot of its inspiration
1:59:48from Larry Sanders but it was oh yeah right right and faster that we asked him yeah that's the thing
1:59:54that's insane about 30 I mean again we're talking about Matthew Perry in the studio but the thing
1:59:58about 30 Rock is the jokes per minute so is so much sane it's just it's even to pack that many
2:00:06bad jokes that tightly would be difficult let alone good jokes and it was funny but they just
2:00:12and it took off and it resonated and I kind of feel like it squeezed studio 60 and then
2:00:18and then my other thought is and again this is truly with the benefit of hindsight but
2:00:2422 episodes in a year of an hour-long drama which used to be the standard standard it isn't
2:00:31sustainable when you're aiming at a much more cinematic writing quality you just that there's
2:00:39a reason why none of today's prestige hour-long dramas do 20 episodes 10 is a lot most of them
2:00:47like eight and even most of the ones that are eight my number one complaint about almost every
2:00:53single series I watch these days is I get to the end of the eight series eight series season and
2:00:59I think that could have been like four episodes right like it just it would have been tighter and
2:01:04it just better at four 22 was a lot and there were there were some some dead spots in the middle of
2:01:10that well and I know and and they the hard thing they had to work with too and they dropped a
2:01:15little bit of it but they were trying to be topical and they were trying to infuse the parts
2:01:18of the show itself into it which again with 22 episodes like that's hard 30 rock had that same
2:01:24issue a little bit and they quickly dropped that where they were like we're just going to be a
2:01:28cartoon which was the perfect approach right trying to kind of make it topical but they'd
2:01:33come off of the the people behind it obviously Aaron Sorkin but Thomas Schlame he did the West
2:01:37Wing and he's also on ER which both of those were shows that did I mean ER some some seasons had 26
2:01:43episodes and ER was a really insane show because the amount of like steady cam and other stuff
2:01:50yeah like talk about fast-paced show like I don't even know how they did that I really don't but
2:01:55Studio 60 I think that I mean I it's one of those that's it was funny I was talking about this on
2:02:01Twitter a couple weeks ago with my friend Ben Dreyfus who was making some sort of comment
2:02:07about it and and I I contend like I I thought Matt Perry was great I still think the problem
2:02:13with that show in addition to going up against 30 rock and probably trying to do all that it did
2:02:18I think if they'd made the emotional center not Matthew Perry and Sarah Paulson but if they'd
2:02:24really focused on the the two stars who actually had chemistry which were Bradley Whitford and
2:02:28Amanda Peet I think it would have maybe been a little bit better but I watched the pilot today
2:02:34in advance of this yeah it holds up it's one of those things that mean way too many network
2:02:39references which I remember at the time I was like yes congratulations you've seen network and you
2:02:44and you've mentioned patty shayevsky 500 times and I was like in film school so for me to read
2:02:49as hell and I'm not going to take exactly exactly it was very much reminiscent of that but you know
2:02:54they had what's-his-face Judd Hirsch as as the mad as hell kind of thing but I re-watched that pilot
2:03:00and it was good and Matthew Perry was very very good in it yeah and and that was a show that it's
2:03:06it's frustrating that it was shot on film the broadcast is is in letterbox but it's only
2:03:13available in SD like yeah it's very frustrating everywhere yeah it's it's it you can buy it on
2:03:19itunes you can buy it from amazon but it's only an sd and it I that's what's so it get you're
2:03:24exactly right it's shot on film so they could remaster it if they had to oh yeah it wouldn't
2:03:29even be hard like they have the master right there and let's just be that like you and I and a number
2:03:34of your readers who emailed you in about it like were the only people who watched it it's one of
2:03:39those shows actually it's amazing they got 22 episodes because they'd given it a full order
2:03:43from what I recall really early on but the ratings were not there and I think it aired on Tuesdays I
2:03:48want to say I don't remember what day it aired now maybe it was 30 maybe it was 30 rock it was on
2:03:51Tuesdays but they were on different nights and I watched it I watched it the whole time like I
2:03:57watched the entire thing because I'm a huge Aaron Sorkin fan but he was really good on that and and
2:04:02it was all the Friends actors had a hard time transitioning into other tv roles after Friends
2:04:11but although I pointed this out to you in our text message earlier today what's interesting to me when
2:04:17I think about 30 rock 30 rock studio 60 is that the modern corollary for it is the morning show on
2:04:25Apple TV yeah and and and this season it's gone full soap which I love I love everything they've
2:04:31done with it I'm like yes embrace the soap of it all but it is one of those things where I was kind
2:04:35of thinking about it especially after I watched the pilot I was like yeah this is completely this
2:04:39was 15 16 years ahead of its time for what the morning show and which also stars as Friends star
2:04:46yeah it's kind of trying to do comes full circle I have to say I never thought of that until you said
2:04:51it in our text message when we were setting up this broadcast but I was like as soon as you said
2:04:55it I was like oh my god yeah it feels like the same cinematic universe absolutely feels like
2:04:59they could mention studio 60 is they could yeah they're both the same network right like it's like
2:05:05like they're they're both in it and both of them are it's funny are sort of being a riff on on NBC
2:05:10I always I always think and I've noticed this for a long time I think people underestimate comedy in
2:05:15every regard I think because they think ah comedy means jokes jokes aren't serious so it's all just
2:05:20fluff and it's like all comedy is the equivalent of I don't know the Kathy comic strip right or
2:05:27Garfield right it's not but I think comedy it is so difficult to do well and I think there are so
2:05:37many cases of actors and actresses who become known for a comedic role and then they do something
2:05:45dramatic and everybody's like wow this person who I only thought was an idiot clown who did jokes is
2:05:53actually a good actor Robin Williams is oh yeah example right maybe the canonical example but
2:05:58you know like when Steve Martin does a serious yeah role he's he's so good and I thought Matthew
2:06:04Perry had that going and it to me it's like comedy is so hard and timing is so essential right the
2:06:10exact same actor with the same camera angle and the same lighting and if you deliver the line with
2:06:16the wrong timing it's not funny at all and if you deliver it with the perfect timing it's hilarious
2:06:22and that timing even though it has nothing to do with jokes you translate it to drama and it's
2:06:29like man that is acting and Matthew Perry had it and it's very sad and I we should definitely
2:06:35mention you know he obviously struggled with addiction to all sorts of stuff really good his
2:06:40book booze yeah everything from booze to pills to everything in between I didn't read anything about
2:06:47it but I mean I guess drowning in his pool probably was on something I don't know they
2:06:52they don't know what they think apparently he'd been playing pickleball and he came back and then
2:06:56he got in like the jacuzzi so corner hasn't come back with a report yet but it would make sense
2:07:02they didn't find any like illicit substances there but it would make sense that potentially because
2:07:07of other stuff you've done to his body and whatnot that he had a heart attack that's what yeah maybe
2:07:11it's possible too right so even if he wasn't on something when he died if he wasn't drunk or on
2:07:15pills or something it's just the ravaging of his body I mean and to be to be honest I mean you
2:07:21could see it on his face yeah he looked older than 54 I mean he did but man oh man the guy was so
2:07:27generous I did not read his book Amy did my wife did it's a really good book the audible version
2:07:32which he reads is also good and and I I encourage people to listen to that it's it's I've upped it
2:07:39to near I want to now I want to read it I'm sorry Matthew Perry's memory that now I want to read your
2:07:46book because you died but I just I can't say enough good things about his and so many people
2:07:51now that he's dead have said all these surprising stories about his his remarkable generosity and he
2:07:57set up like I used his wealth to create like a halfway house for for just complete strangers to
2:08:03help them get through their own struggles with whatever addictions they had just genuine
2:08:08heartfelt nothing but trying to help other people with similar problems just seemed like
2:08:12you can't find a single person saying anything other than that that he was just a
2:08:17remarkably good talented person who just struggled with this problem his whole life
2:08:24shame for sure anyway glad to hear you glad but also not surprised at all to hear you were a big
2:08:32fan I was yeah I was a big huge studio 60 fan and because I loved Aaron Sorkin I mean look it
2:08:38first night was the better show like that's and and of the two Keith O'Rourke men shows that
2:08:42Aaron Sorkin has just made that's also the best one although I I didn't hate the newsroom a lot
2:08:47of people did but I I didn't but but I'd say I can watch it I could watch Aaron Sorkin right about
2:08:53I agree watching paint dry on the wall no watch it totally I just say ah this is a crummy Aaron
2:08:58Sorkin show when's the next episode right exactly exactly but no but studio 60 like I said I was
2:09:03really glad that I watched the pilot earlier today and and I was it was nice to see him it was also
2:09:08really weird to see some of the people who were in it like most notably Sarah Paulson who yeah yeah
2:09:13really yeah who's like like massive massive new success now but I think for a lot of people like
2:09:20that was that was certainly my first exposure to her I think but yeah people people who've been on
2:09:25like Lucy Davis who was on studio 60 wrote like a really nice kind of moments of him on
2:09:32Instagram which and you shared some of the funny things that that with me I think like
2:09:37him telling a story on Graham Norton but he's just a really good actor really funny and and
2:09:42somebody that I think because he was our friend right like that's why I think this is weird this
2:09:46is one of those weird moments where it in it hits like every generation but it's like this felt like
2:09:52when Kobe died this was like one of those moments for me I was like that that like I texted my
2:09:56friends the same way I did when when Kobe Bryant died like it was the exact same sort of thing and
2:10:01through those rare people that you don't know anything about them other than their personal
2:10:05struggles and whatnot and what you see on screen but that are just I don't know they're they're
2:10:10people that we all they were in our homes every day yeah well thank you for joining me on short
2:10:17notice for a quick turnaround show always good to hear from you Christina I will what should we
2:10:23shout out where should we point to people oh so go to githubuniverse.com because that's taking
2:10:28place next week and I'm going to be one of the hosts of that event and so you can check that
2:10:33out that's going to be on the 8th and the 9th next week and actually there is going to be some
2:10:37Mac stuff that we talk about that if people are interested in how we do things like doing our our
2:10:43Mac OS hosted runners there's a there's a little video that's going to happen on one of those days
2:10:49I think on day two that features yours truly and some very cool data center stuff with Macs that's
2:10:54that's me giving just a little bit of a well then I'm I am really glad I asked you I will also thank
2:11:02our sponsors Squarespace our good friends and our new sponsor nuts.com where you can get all sorts
2:11:10of good snack foods thanks to them and break a leg next week I look forward to seeing it yeah thank