00:00:29 ◼ ► Hello. I'm feeling real good because we just had what I think is like an all-time great pre-show
00:00:40 ◼ ► and we made some cases as to whether we think it is legal, moral, or none of the above.
00:00:53 ◼ ► I think Federico said the phrase "legal precedent" 16 times during the 20-minute pre-show,
00:01:00 ◼ ► which you can get by going to getconnectedpro.co, sign up, support the show, and get some fun content.
00:01:14 ◼ ► So I set a goal for myself in 2024, and we are going to start working toward this goal here today in this episode.
00:01:50 ◼ ► but I want you, by the end of this year, to be able to speak, at the very least, some short Italian sentences.
00:02:05 ◼ ► Today, we're going to start very small. I just need you guys to learn how to pronounce a portion of the Italian alphabet.
00:02:18 ◼ ► And obviously, as you know, in the future, in the next few months, we'll go deeper and deeper into the realm of the Italian language.
00:02:34 ◼ ► OK. So one of the things you should know about Italian is that we pronounce the letters as we say them, which this will make sense.
00:03:10 ◼ ► Here's the thing. OK, I think I can say this because I feel like the statute of limitations is up.
00:03:20 ◼ ► And I really struggled. Like, I was a good student and I really struggled in high school and college in foreign languages, like Spanish, thinking it'd be the easiest.
00:03:30 ◼ ► And it was so hard that my last college Spanish class, my wife, who was fluent in Spanish.
00:03:38 ◼ ► Did a large amount of my online Spanish work for me, it was an online class and did the bulk of it.
00:03:46 ◼ ► And so, OK, well, I'm just saying I'm just saying this is not my strong suit, so I'm going to struggle.
00:03:53 ◼ ► Don't worry about it. We'll get you up to speed. So let's try again. It's not A, B, C. It's A, B, C.
00:05:18 ◼ ► No, you said F, A. It sounds shorter than it is. It should be F, A. Like more pronounced.
00:05:27 ◼ ► Yes. All right. So that concludes our very first short. We'll find a name for this segment, I guess.
00:05:36 ◼ ► The six letters of the Italian alphabet. Thank you for collaborating, and we'll do this again next time.
00:06:13 ◼ ► All right. So follow up. iOS 17.4 will indeed offer the ability for a developer to disable
00:06:21 ◼ ► video reactions. It's in the release notes now. It says developers can control the default behavior
00:06:26 ◼ ► of reactions. This is controlled per application, and user choice will override application declared
00:06:39 ◼ ► by default, you can say no. You can turn it off for your app, but a user can choose to turn it
00:06:43 ◼ ► on if they want to. So that will probably help with that kind of stuff. That's a good change.
00:06:54 ◼ ► Yeah, I think so. Nothing else. We got some AI follow up. First piece comes from Frederick.
00:07:01 ◼ ► We were talking about Magic Eraser. It has been available in Google Photos on both iOS and Android
00:07:07 ◼ ► since February 2023, but only for paying customers who have Google One. So if you want Google's Magic
00:07:13 ◼ ► Eraser, it's possible to get it, but who wants to pay for Google One? You know what I'm saying?
00:07:17 ◼ ► Anders says, with regards to the Apple research papers, we were talking about the strange
00:07:23 ◼ ► formatting of them and nothing being in line. Well, it turns out they are not using Word,
00:07:49 ◼ ► Right? There is no scenario in which an X is pronounced of a K sound. Why would they do this
00:07:56 ◼ ► to me? Mac OS X. All right. I have now, oh, don't come at me and be like, oh, look in the chat. Like
00:08:06 ◼ ► it's the Greek key letter. No, that is BS. That is BS. I will not accept that. No one knows this.
00:08:13 ◼ ► I reject this. I'm furious now. Mike writes in to say with the discussion on episode 490 about a
00:08:21 ◼ ► five millimeter iPad Pro. Do you think Apple would make an iPad Pro without a camera? The thinness
00:08:27 ◼ ► about a case is nice, but it's ruined if it cannot lay flat on a desk because of a camera bump.
00:08:37 ◼ ► I had this thought and here I am to jump straight in with my counterpoint. Drawing on an iPad,
00:08:45 ◼ ► like it is a normal thing to put it down and use an Apple pencil to draw, right? Like on a phone,
00:08:50 ◼ ► no, it's fine. But the iPad is maybe the only device where like it actually would make it
00:08:56 ◼ ► nicer if it was flat, like realistically nicer if it was flat. That's a good point. But we all know
00:09:08 ◼ ► Really. Oh, I got it. I can't believe we haven't thought about this before. Okay. Camera bump
00:09:17 ◼ ► dongle. Okay. So you have a really, it has a built-in camera, but it's really bad. But if you
00:09:24 ◼ ► want a good camera, you plug in this USB-C thing. It's aluminum. It kind of wraps around the edge of
00:09:29 ◼ ► the iPad and you get a good camera. You should make a Kickstarter for it. I should. Who needs
00:09:37 ◼ ► calendars? Yeah, exactly. I'm so mad about this latex thing. I'm so angry about it because
00:09:45 ◼ ► everyone in the discourse, like all of my computer science professors, I don't care. Why did they put
00:09:51 ◼ ► the X there? It makes me like an idiot. You know, like I don't like this. I'm really mad about this.
00:09:55 ◼ ► Why did they do this? As soon as I saw this follow-up I realized, oh yes, of course they're
00:10:00 ◼ ► using LaTeX. Like, yeah. Uh, I wish I had thought of it live. That's my shame. Not that I don't know
00:10:06 ◼ ► how to pronounce it, which is weird. Cause normally that's my problem. There's an entire part of the
00:10:12 ◼ ► Wikipedia entry for pronouncing it. Of course there is. Why? But like, I'm so angry. Because the thing
00:10:22 ◼ ► is, right, here's the thing. It doesn't look like the Greek character, right? Cause it's an X, but
00:10:27 ◼ ► like a weird X and it's like drops down, right? It's just, I'm just so mad. I'm just so mad about
00:10:33 ◼ ► it. Shoot on in the discord with some beautiful Greek alphabet, which I can also read by the way.
00:10:39 ◼ ► That's that is excellent. I hadn't seen those letters in, in a few years. And this is proving
00:10:45 ◼ ► my point. It doesn't, if it looked like that, right? Like if the X in LaTeX looked like that,
00:10:54 ◼ ► it's an X. Okay. It's okay. Mike, now, you know, it's LaTeX. This made me look like an idiot.
00:11:03 ◼ ► I'm very annoyed about this. Yeah. So the next night, the next time you got to go out and buy
00:11:08 ◼ ► something, you'd be like, Hey, uh, do you guys have any LaTeX suits? I have a LaTeX allergy.
00:11:14 ◼ ► Can we talk about showers some more? Yes. Chris wrote in and said, I wanted to share that I use
00:11:24 ◼ ► a MagSafe magnetic mount to hold my phone in the shower. And then I have an old set of beats fit
00:11:30 ◼ ► pro that I wear while showering. I take them out at the end to finish washing my ears and then
00:11:36 ◼ ► try them, dry them and myself off. Look, gang, just take 10 minutes where you don't have a
00:11:43 ◼ ► podcast. Obviously I'm a podcast. All right. Like I want you to listen to our shows. You don't need
00:11:48 ◼ ► to do this. You know, like it's fine. It's just take a few minutes to think to yourself. Jeremy
00:11:53 ◼ ► writes in to say, hang on, hang on. We just can't blow past this. All right, Chris, Chris, listen
00:12:02 ◼ ► to me directly. He's probably in the shower or the moment. Chris, Chris, you need to order some new
00:12:09 ◼ ► shampoo wearing. Look, I'm a podcast. Look, I understand like you need, I time with your thoughts.
00:12:16 ◼ ► I have other times a day for that, right? It's the headphones. It's the earbuds in the shower
00:12:23 ◼ ► that I don't like it. That's the problem. That's where it's gone too far. I don't mind. I don't
00:12:27 ◼ ► mind a good shower speaker. I think that's totally fine. Like I said, I've got one. It's the beats
00:12:32 ◼ ► fit pro wearing in the shower that, that, that for a couple of reasons. One like, yeah, you got to
00:12:39 ◼ ► take them out to wash your ears. They're wet. Aren't you going to drop them all the time?
00:12:42 ◼ ► But even with a shower speaker, I can still welcome. My bathroom is tiny. I can just see
00:12:49 ◼ ► when the door opens, but I can hear, right? I can like, if one of my kids needs something,
00:12:54 ◼ ► I can still hear them with, with things in my ears, in the shower, I feel like you're too
00:12:58 ◼ ► isolated, right? Like you need some connection to what's going on outside of the shower. And I feel
00:13:06 ◼ ► like there's too much isolation here and it feels icky. And I want to send you a shower speaker. I
00:13:11 ◼ ► think don't, don't use beef. It's pro anymore. Please. Jeremy says I too have the JBL clip two
00:13:19 ◼ ► in the shower. Uh, Jeremy felt the need to tell us that the JBL clip two was blue. Uh, I also have a
00:13:26 ◼ ► mag safe ring on the shower wall, clear of water danger to put my phone in the shower. I watch
00:13:34 ◼ ► YouTube, Hulu and stuff like that. Hulu in the shower. Only murderers in the shower. You know,
00:13:41 ◼ ► Hulu's greatest show. I'm okay. Again, listening is fine. The phone should not come in the shower
00:13:49 ◼ ► with you, right? This was the whole thing that started this a hundred years ago when this topic
00:13:54 ◼ ► started before it took over our podcast. I needed a thing to be able to put my phone on the counter
00:14:00 ◼ ► next to the sink. So I got the nomad leather back thing, which I'm still loving, but it can't come
00:14:06 ◼ ► in the shower with you. That's too much. How did we end up here? Why is there a temu.com link?
00:14:12 ◼ ► We're not putting that link in the show notes. I refuse to put that in the CMS. Go to Amazon.
00:14:17 ◼ ► Why are we doing this? This is the last time. This is, this is the last time. I don't know
00:14:22 ◼ ► if it is. I'm not done. The next piece of follow-up comes from Nick who says, I am surprised. And this
00:14:28 ◼ ► is hilarious to me, the word surprised in this follow-up. I'm surprised that the three hosts
00:14:33 ◼ ► did not originally land on the same conclusion I did for podcasts in the shower. I use a HomePod.
00:14:38 ◼ ► The outside, the fabric of the HomePod, it's like a loofah, right? Like you're having a great time.
00:14:52 ◼ ► What about the electricity part of that? It supports airplay is voice controlled and supports
00:14:58 ◼ ► home intercom. Ideally, the white one looks best in the bathroom. Fiddling with a cheap battery
00:15:03 ◼ ► power, Bluetooth, water speakers, or balancing your iPhone seems barbaric. Now I'm assuming,
00:15:09 ◼ ► right. That the HomePod is not in the shower cubicle because I think Nick would be dead by
00:15:14 ◼ ► now. I mean, look, all of mine were outside of the shower and all three of my big ones were dead now.
00:15:19 ◼ ► So yeah. And again, like I will say, I don't have an issue with people listening to music
00:15:25 ◼ ► or podcasts in the shower. For me, if you are going further than phone in the shower with you,
00:15:33 ◼ ► which I'm fine with, or simple speaker, I think it's too far, right? Like I think when we're
00:15:37 ◼ ► getting MagSafe rings and stuff like that, it's like we're gone too far using headphones. But this
00:15:47 ◼ ► phone in the shower, my wife is a manager of a HR company and twice in the last year has had to write
00:15:53 ◼ ► disciplinary actions because employees have accidentally joined video calls while in the
00:15:58 ◼ ► shower. After much deliberation, improper work attire has been the correct terminology for the
00:16:08 ◼ ► offense. The offenders seem to have accidentally hit the camera button during an active call
00:16:13 ◼ ► while otherwise occupied. What is wrong with people? What is wrong with people? This is so
00:16:19 ◼ ► much worse than the video reactions in macOS. This is why working from home should be illegal.
00:16:32 ◼ ► If you're supposed to be on a meeting and instead you're in the shower, no, you're not allowed
00:16:38 ◼ ► anymore. Well, maybe it was an unexpected call, right? It's not like, oh, I have a meeting with
00:16:44 ◼ ► my boss, let me go get in the shower. I've read this, someone, you know, look, people just make
00:16:50 ◼ ► teams calls and slack calls and you accidentally pick up. Don't take your phone in the shower.
00:16:54 ◼ ► Just don't, just don't do it. Don't do this. Improper work attire. Improper work attire.
00:17:00 ◼ ► Unbelievable. We all know, we all know there are specific reasons to have your phone in the shower,
00:17:10 ◼ ► right? And like to be on a call, like if you want to be on a phone call in the shower and what you,
00:17:14 ◼ ► that's good for you if you want to do that, but never in a work environment. You know what I'm
00:17:18 ◼ ► saying? Not in a work environment. Wait, what? Look, if you want to take a phone call with a
00:17:25 ◼ ► loved one while you're in the shower, that's up to you. Oh, sure. Okay. Sure. Okay. Sure.
00:17:35 ◼ ► Why can people just, you know, sing in the shower or something? Like it's, you know, old school,
00:17:43 ◼ ► like just, or, or, or be alone with your thoughts. Yeah. I get great thinking done when I'm in the
00:17:50 ◼ ► shower. Me too. Yeah. Great thinking. Yeah. Now I'm just going to think about how upset I am about
00:17:57 ◼ ► LaTeX. That's what I'm going to, when I take my shower this evening, that's what I'm going to be
00:18:02 ◼ ► thinking about. I'm not going to be able to get this out of my head. I'm so embarrassed. You know
00:18:07 ◼ ► what I once read about the, uh, the, the creator of the LaTeX syntax. Um, he pronounced, I believe
00:18:15 ◼ ► is a very tall guy. So, Oh yeah. Taller than me. Possibly. I expect. Right. Yeah. It's all of them.
00:18:22 ◼ ► Apple music in the shower. A good use for shower speaker is Apple music. Uh, Federico tell us about
00:18:34 ◼ ► this new feature and then tell us what it lacks. Yeah. So today they, uh, Apple music started
00:18:40 ◼ ► rolling out these new mix. It's called the heavy rotation mix, which is different from previous,
00:18:57 ◼ ► However, uh, unlike their previous mixes, such as the, um, uh, what's, what's it called? A new,
00:19:04 ◼ ► new music mix, uh, my favorites mix. Uh, do they have also one called like, uh, my friends mix and
00:19:10 ◼ ► my chill mix or something? Yeah. There's friends mix, chill mix. I think there's like some kind of
00:19:15 ◼ ► like workout. Yeah. Like, uh, get up, feel good, something mix, um, heavy rotation. You said that
00:19:24 ◼ ► one. I've got my station, my discovery station. Those are the radio stations, which are different
00:19:35 ◼ ► So heavy rotation mix is a, a, uh, as a collection of songs you have put in every rotation,
00:19:44 ◼ ► uh, supposedly from the past 24 hours, because this one is the first algorithmic mix to be
00:19:51 ◼ ► refreshed on a daily basis. Um, I think it's a good idea. Spotify has been doing lots of daily
00:19:58 ◼ ► mixes for years now of all kinds. Um, so Apple music now also doing a daily mix. Um, I think
00:20:05 ◼ ► it's a good idea. The one thing I noticed, which I believe is a bug at the moment and it needs to
00:20:09 ◼ ► be fixed is that this heavy rotation mix, I can say for certainty that for me, it picked up songs
00:20:18 ◼ ► that I listened to while I had enabled a focus filter that turns off music listening activity.
00:20:27 ◼ ► So if you recall, that was a feature that was rolled out in 17.2 or 17.3, the ability to
00:20:33 ◼ ► create a focus mode with a focus filter for Apple music to say, uh, when I'm listening to music and
00:20:39 ◼ ► I'm in the sleep focus or I'm in the driving focus or something, do not count this music activity
00:20:46 ◼ ► against my recommendations against what people will see that I listened to and all that sort of
00:20:51 ◼ ► stuff. Uh, but in this heavy rotation mix, I found my sleep music, which is the, you know, the music
00:20:57 ◼ ► I listen to when I go to bed. And I don't want that to count against my recommendations. And yet
00:21:03 ◼ ► it ended up here. So hopefully this, uh, the algorithm will be fixed here, not to count those
00:21:09 ◼ ► songs, but otherwise, um, I think it's a good idea. And, uh, it just, uh, maybe, uh, maybe about time
00:21:16 ◼ ► for the music app to get some sort of refresh because that, uh, that, uh, section of mixes and
00:21:22 ◼ ► stations is getting kind of confusing right now with all these options. Spotify has a dedicated
00:21:28 ◼ ► page, for example, for all your algorithmic mixes here, they're just a sort of put in a section of
00:21:35 ◼ ► the home tab and maybe there could be a better design to collect them all. Uh, we've seen the
00:21:41 ◼ ► discord from Jen. There is a singing in the shower playlist from Apple music. There you go. That's the
00:21:47 ◼ ► playlist that exists too. If you want that. Yeah. Is this a matter of Apple not remembering all the
00:21:57 ◼ ► features it has? Like I think so. Yeah. Cause this happens. I actually, it happens quite a bit. Look
00:22:03 ◼ ► at the sports app, like no live activities, no widgets, no iPad or Mac support. Like I just,
00:22:11 ◼ ► I understand it was something like that. They wanted to get it out for the beginning of MLS
00:22:15 ◼ ► play and it was at accused baby. So it got fast tracked. It seems, but something like this,
00:22:22 ◼ ► it's like, well, the music team supports these other features. It just, it, it kind of,
00:22:26 ◼ ► it kind of runs me the wrong way for a company that prize itself on the details, you know?
00:22:31 ◼ ► No, no, no. So, um, hope it gets fixed, but otherwise, uh, I think it's really a nice feature.
00:22:47 ◼ ► the heavy rotation, this is music you listen to a lot. Like, wouldn't that be fine to go back into
00:22:52 ◼ ► your, your history and everything because it's music you've already listened to a bunch. It's
00:22:56 ◼ ► not like you're off exploring something new and you don't want to accidentally be labeled as,
00:23:01 ◼ ► you know, someone who listens to a type of music you don't. Well, no, but if, but if for example,
00:23:06 ◼ ► my kid likes to listen to the frozen soundtrack 20 times when we're driving, uh, would you consider
00:23:12 ◼ ► that a heavy rotation for me? Okay. If there's a setting, you should respect that setting. I agree
00:23:19 ◼ ► with that. I just, I didn't know since this playlist is like an amplification, but yes, I,
00:23:23 ◼ ► I see what you're saying now. Or if you like, you know, you're, you listen to a piece of music on
00:23:29 ◼ ► repeat for four hours while you're writing, like, it's not like you always want that to show up when
00:23:35 ◼ ► you're like joking. It's like a different thing for some people, I guess. This episode of connected
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00:25:46 ◼ ► probably supports it. New app called Simple Scan, and it's great. This all unfolded on Macedon.
00:25:59 ◼ ► bunch of other people told him, "Please make this an app on the App Store." Yes, you can scan
00:26:04 ◼ ► documents into Apple Notes. Yes, you can scan in the Files app, but there are other times that you
00:26:12 ◼ ► want to scan something and you want to just send it as an email, or maybe you don't want to open
00:26:18 ◼ ► the Files app because it makes you sad, and Greg's Simple Scan app does just that. There's a handful
00:26:24 ◼ ► of options. You can set your format to PDF or images. You can turn OCR on or off, and there's
00:26:31 ◼ ► some other things you can do like set up custom email destinations like scan this and send it to
00:26:36 ◼ ► Federico. I think this is awesome because Apple's solution is good, but a little bit limited, and
00:26:43 ◼ ► this coming from Greg who makes Draff's, this is just Draff's for scanning. You open it and you
00:26:49 ◼ ► pick your destination, and then you scan your thing. I'm glad he built it because a lot of
00:26:55 ◼ ► third-party scanning apps have felt icky over the years with business models or the one my wife
00:27:02 ◼ ► uses. I forget the name of it, and she likes it. It's fine, whatever. It syncs with iCloud,
00:27:07 ◼ ► but it's like a whole document library inside the scanning app. I'm like, that's fine, but for what
00:27:14 ◼ ► I want most of the time is scan something to email it to somebody, which I have to do a fair amount
00:27:19 ◼ ► for work. I get a scary letter in the mail. I scan it, send it to our CPA, and he says, "No,
00:27:25 ◼ ► you're getting scammed. Don't answer that," or whatever. That sort of use case is pretty common
00:27:31 ◼ ► for me, and so I signed up for this immediately. It's $4.99 a year or $20 lifetime. Greg has a long
00:27:40 ◼ ► history of building excellent iOS apps, and I was like, "Yeah, lifetime. Let's go. This is now on my
00:27:46 ◼ ► phone." I love this idea because it's the kind of utility that doesn't do anything revolutionary.
00:27:54 ◼ ► It's just a much more intuitive and simplified version of a feature that exists elsewhere,
00:28:01 ◼ ► and here it's being made like a dedicated utility that does just that. If there's one piece of
00:28:16 ◼ ► No, I don't scan documents in the shower, but I would love to create- Maybe somebody out there is
00:28:24 ◼ ► like, "No, I do it all the time." I'm convinced now one of our listeners scans their documents
00:28:28 ◼ ► in the shower. You need the humidity to smooth the paper out. Now, you got to work fast though,
00:28:33 ◼ ► which is why this is a good product because some of these other scanning apps are slow,
00:28:37 ◼ ► and this thing is just like you got to get in there just as the paper is smooth but not ruined.
00:28:43 ◼ ► Yeah, that's why you need simple scan because it's so fast. It's shower proof. No, but I would
00:28:48 ◼ ► love to create favorite folders so that the next time I scan something, I need to always go to my
00:28:58 ◼ ► scanned documents folder in iCloud Drive. That's something that you can do on iOS. You can pick
00:29:02 ◼ ► a folder beforehand. That sort of becomes a bookmark of sorts, and then the next time I scan,
00:29:09 ◼ ► the app would save the PDF directly inside that folder without me having to pick that folder
00:29:14 ◼ ► manually every time. So that would be nice to have. But yeah, I think a really cool example of
00:29:20 ◼ ► a developer looking for something that didn't exist, builds it for himself, becomes a product
00:29:26 ◼ ► for sale. Really nice story, I think. Every time someone says "simple scan," I hear "simple plan."
00:29:43 ◼ ► You know, that's wild to me that they made it out to you. You know, like I'm from Canada.
00:29:51 ◼ ► Let's talk about PWAs and iOS 17.4. Okay. This is a topic I have brought to the show today.
00:30:03 ◼ ► I think I'm in a bit of a spicy mood today. It's all to do with latex. So as part of the
00:30:09 ◼ ► changes coming in iOS 17.4 in Europe to comply with the DMA rules, Apple has removed the support
00:30:18 ◼ ► in Europe for PWAs on the iPhone. PWAs, progressive web apps, or as I think of them, programs of
00:30:24 ◼ ► attitude. Essentially, what this allows you to do is add a web app on your iPhone to your home
00:30:36 ◼ ► screen, but then it acts like an app. So when you tap on the icon, it opens full screen. It looks
00:30:43 ◼ ► like an app. It doesn't have like web browser Chrome around it. And then over time, they've
00:30:47 ◼ ► added features like push notifications you can receive from PWA. And it has some form of reliable
00:30:54 ◼ ► storage. So the app remembers states it has data like an app would like a native app. The PWA does
00:31:01 ◼ ► as well. But in 17.4, Apple has removed the additional functions that a PWA can have on the
00:31:08 ◼ ► iPhone, essentially reducing it back to being like a bookmark to open a web page in your chosen
00:31:14 ◼ ► browser. Many people in the community are upset about this and believe that Apple is doing it to
00:31:20 ◼ ► make the experience, to make PWAs a worse experience than using an app. I'm seeing this
00:31:29 ◼ ► spoken about a lot. The term malicious compliance has been used to describe what Apple has been
00:31:34 ◼ ► doing. That Apple is using the DMA as a cover to remove PWAs because there is a feeling that like,
00:31:42 ◼ ► I think in the PWA community that Apple doesn't want them to exist because it allows for a new
00:31:56 ◼ ► It's very clear Apple wants money from all apps. Apple have given the following statement on this.
00:32:03 ◼ ► I'm going to quote from 9 to 5. Apple explains that it would have to build an entirely new
00:32:08 ◼ ► integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS to address the complex security and
00:32:14 ◼ ► privacy concerns associated with web apps using alternative browser engines. This work was not
00:32:20 ◼ ► practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of home
00:32:27 ◼ ► screen web apps, Apple explains. And so to comply with the DMA's requirements, we had to remove the
00:32:33 ◼ ► home screen web apps feature in the European Union. EU users will be able to continue accessing
00:32:39 ◼ ► websites directly from their home screen through a bookmark with minimal impact to their functionality
00:32:45 ◼ ► Apple continues. That part is not true at the end. That's just not true. The functions are being
00:32:50 ◼ ► removed, like the storage, the push notifications. I don't know what everything else in that
00:32:54 ◼ ► statement reads fine. I don't know why they say that part at the end. As you would imagine,
00:32:59 ◼ ► complaints on this have been made to the European Commission and they say that they are looking into
00:33:04 ◼ ► it. What do you boys think about this? I don't understand, and maybe you guys can explain this to
00:33:09 ◼ ► me, why the feature had to be taken away because of the DMA. So I have a thought on this and like
00:33:25 ◼ ► said they had to take it away because they are not going to do the work to allow say Chrome
00:33:31 ◼ ► and Mozilla to do this. Like if you choose Chrome as your default browser and you get the browser
00:33:35 ◼ ► ballot, you then can't use WebKit from Apple right to power the PWAs. That's kind of the thinking.
00:33:42 ◼ ► And it seems like Apple is not willing to do the work to allow for PWAs to work no matter what type
00:33:49 ◼ ► of browser you use. That's a decision that they have made. And I think they've then had to remove
00:33:54 ◼ ► it because then Safari would have this feature and it would have an edge over Chrome. It would
00:34:00 ◼ ► be better than Chrome. So if you stuck with Safari, then you could have PWAs. But if you chose
00:34:07 ◼ ► Chrome, you can't. So I think they've basically they have to neutralize the impact. They're not
00:34:13 ◼ ► actually allowed to have one web browser be better than any of the other web browsers. Is that codified
00:34:20 ◼ ► in the DMA? I think I've read that that's the case. Like they can't allow for benefits to Safari
00:34:29 ◼ ► over Chrome. Like they have to neutralize them, right? So this is from 9 to the Mac. The DMA
00:34:38 ◼ ► requires that all browsers have equality, meaning that Apple can't favor Safari and WebKit over
00:34:43 ◼ ► third-party browser engines. Therefore, because it can't offer home screen web apps for third-party
00:34:55 ◼ ► my thought is that it seems a bit odd to me that you go to such great lengths to build all these
00:35:03 ◼ ► features that the DMA requires you to. And the one thing you fail to implement is arguably something
00:35:14 ◼ ► that would have allowed a lot of web apps to be used locally on an iOS device in full screen
00:35:21 ◼ ► with app-like behaviors and features. Like it seems a bit odd. Yeah, but if that was the case,
00:35:28 ◼ ► then why do PWAs have any support currently like in the rest of the world? What do you mean with
00:35:33 ◼ ► that? Well, like PWAs work everywhere else. It's not like they've gotten rid of them everywhere
00:35:37 ◼ ► else. So like that threat still exists in other places. Sure. So like if that was the case, then
00:35:44 ◼ ► like why did they introduce them in the first place and have made them better over time if
00:35:50 ◼ ► they don't want them to exist? Right, and so if they want them to exist, why didn't they build it?
00:36:08 ◼ ► and they had to build so much they deprioritized it. So they didn't have time basically? No,
00:36:14 ◼ ► it's not time. They didn't want to do this work. Like that's how I look at it. Like they had so
00:36:19 ◼ ► many things to do. They didn't want to do this. I hope they will do it. Like that they haven't done
00:36:25 ◼ ► it now. So if Apple is not, if Apple is not maliciously complying here, I think they would
00:36:31 ◼ ► have, they would have, they could have just said, look, we deprioritize this. It's coming later,
00:36:37 ◼ ► but we are going to do it. Case closed. Like, unless there's something else. They don't make
00:36:42 ◼ ► those kinds of statements, right? But, but now, but now you just caused a lot of controversy and
00:36:48 ◼ ► the EU to look into this again. Yeah, that's true. But I mean, it's not like they haven't caused
00:36:54 ◼ ► enough controversy in the EU looking into things with even just their response to the VMA. I think
00:36:59 ◼ ► it is a shame to remove them from Safari. Like I think it's a shame to move them at all, but I do
00:37:04 ◼ ► believe that the usage of PWAs on iOS is really low. Like I do believe this to be the case.
00:37:09 ◼ ► About why is that low? Like, like, yeah, I think you're right. But also arguably you could say that
00:37:14 ◼ ► it's been low because Apple has been very slow to adopt modern PWA features. I just don't, I just
00:37:20 ◼ ► don't think people are going to do it. It's that sort of problem. It's like the chicken leg problem
00:37:24 ◼ ► where like, yeah, adoption is low because really like, you know, you only recently they like,
00:37:31 ◼ ► was it last year that they added support for push notifications? Yeah. I mean like, yeah,
00:37:39 ◼ ► that usage is low because obviously you always pushed for the app store instead of the web.
00:37:47 ◼ ► Like, so yeah, you know, not a shocker that usage is low. That is a very good point. There is one
00:37:54 ◼ ► thing I wanted to just mention here though. Like a lot of people are calling PWAs the biggest threat
00:37:58 ◼ ► to the app store, which is why Apple's getting rid of them. Like I'm seeing that time used a lot,
00:38:02 ◼ ► which is, I mean, it's funny to me because like, I think the biggest threat to the app store
00:38:07 ◼ ► is alternate app stores, which is what's happening in the countries where P, like places where PWAs
00:38:14 ◼ ► have been removed. I think the biggest threat to the app store is Apple itself. Yeah, I love it.
00:38:19 ◼ ► Yes. I love it. Like, look, I find this whole thing to be, uh, I can see why people are frustrated
00:38:25 ◼ ► about it. I do. I really, I personally take Apple at face value here that like, it's a small
00:38:34 ◼ ► percentage of users that use it. They haven't done it. And that's that, like, I want them to do more,
00:38:41 ◼ ► but I, I don't see this as like some mastermind scheme to neutralize this like oncoming threat.
00:38:50 ◼ ► Yeah. I don't think that. I think you're right. I don't think that either. Uh, but as with many
00:38:55 ◼ ► other cases of Apple in the press, I think sometimes they just have a bad way to get their
00:39:04 ◼ ► message across. Yeah. Cause I, I expect they probably, somebody is probably working on this.
00:39:12 ◼ ► Like someone at Apple is probably working on this. They could just say what you suggested, right?
00:39:20 ◼ ► Like we're working on this, but it is not going to make 17.4 and to comply, we've had to remove it.
00:39:26 ◼ ► They do it for other things. I mean, Tim Cook literally said, we're going to have AI features
00:39:38 ◼ ► unveiled. It wouldn't kill anyone to say, yeah, we're going to do this, but it's coming later.
00:39:42 ◼ ► Like, you know, it's no big deal. It's not like they are unveiling the, you know, the next,
00:39:52 ◼ ► and nobody gets upset. I don't get it. They want your money. That's for sure. Right. And they will
00:39:58 ◼ ► do anything that they can to get the money. But I just, I feel like, I don't feel like that's what's
00:40:05 ◼ ► going on here. Like I really don't think they're removing PWAs because they consider PWAs a threat
00:40:11 ◼ ► because if that was the case, why do they exist outside of here? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's
00:40:18 ◼ ► a good point. And I think you're right. I don't think they're doing this maliciously. The timing
00:40:23 ◼ ► is, you know, the timing makes you think that, makes you skeptical. But if you consider how
00:40:34 ◼ ► And I think the company culture right now, they are so begrudgingly doing this, right? Like they
00:40:39 ◼ ► are so begrudgingly going along with the DMA. I think that they are doing the bare minimum amount
00:40:46 ◼ ► of work that they have to do. And the easiest way to deal with the PWA thing is just to turn it off
00:40:56 ◼ ► than to build a function for Mozilla and Google and Microsoft to have their own PWAs on the iPhone.
00:41:05 ◼ ► Yeah. So they're just doing that. Like they, I wouldn't call it malicious compliance in this
00:41:09 ◼ ► scenario. It is like bare minimum compliance is what Apple is going for with this specific thing,
00:41:14 ◼ ► I think. That's my read on the situation anyway. It's like a mom, I don't want to brush my teeth
00:41:20 ◼ ► compliance. Yeah. And so instead you're just like, you just like take the brush. You don't even put
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00:43:26 ◼ ► We now come to a sad moment in the podcast where we say goodbye to a project that we have talked
00:43:32 ◼ ► about just about the whole run of this podcast. I went back, and we'll get into this, I did some
00:43:39 ◼ ► history digging through what was once called Project Titan, which was Apple's initiative,
00:43:47 ◼ ► or initiatives, I think it was more than one, looking into at some point some combination of
00:43:54 ◼ ► an electric vehicle, a self-driving vehicle, and/or software to run a self-driving vehicle.
00:44:04 ◼ ► At one point they weren't going to make hardware, other points they were hiring people who knew how
00:44:13 ◼ ► Mark Gurman reported on Bloomberg that Apple has canceled its "decade-long effort to build
00:44:21 ◼ ► an electric car." So this is what Gurman said, this is a quote, "The two executives told staffers
00:44:27 ◼ ► that the project will begin winding down and that many employees on the car team, known as the
00:44:33 ◼ ► Special Projects Group, or SPG," this is me now speaking, not Gurman, Project Titan was a pretty
00:44:39 ◼ ► cool name, Special Projects Group, pretty boring. "So those employees will be shifted to the
00:44:44 ◼ ► Artificial Intelligence Division under executive John Gendrea," who we spoke about last week,
00:44:50 ◼ ► "those employees will focus on generative AI projects, an increasingly key priority for the
00:44:57 ◼ ► company." A side effect of this seems that our boy Kevin Lynch is now reporting to John Gendrea
00:45:13 ◼ ► Kevin's our boy, Kevin's our boy. I could see Kevin coming out, you know, for dinner with us,
00:45:19 ◼ ► you know, having a good time. I have nothing against him, I just wasn't sure if I missed a
00:45:41 ◼ ► looking at this and I was like, okay, we talked about this literally the entire run of our podcast
00:45:51 ◼ ► Project Titan was kicked off in 2014 with approval from the newly minted Tim Cook. Tim Cook could
00:46:03 ◼ ► Apple watch was announced and coming out. So about that timeframe, Apple was rumored at the time to
00:46:09 ◼ ► have hired Johan Jungwirth, a former president and chief executive from Mercedes-Benz R&D,
00:46:24 ◼ ► I had forgotten about this and I reread it, like fell out of my chair. In 2015, Apple board member
00:46:30 ◼ ► Mickey Drexler told an interviewer that Steve Jobs had a car on Apple's radar. This is a quote,
00:46:39 ◼ ► "Steve Jobs, if he had lived, was going to design an iCar," said Drexler. "I think cars
00:46:56 ◼ ► Later that year, Apple started taking meetings with the state of California over self-driving
00:47:04 ◼ ► regulations, thinking that they were going to be putting tech on the roads at some point,
00:47:26 ◼ ► "Fall 2017 deadline to report to Tim Cook if the project was viable." So this is a couple of years
00:47:33 ◼ ► in. Maybe there's not much to show for it. As you go through this, it seems like maybe Bob blew
00:47:40 ◼ ► Yeah, that was 2017. It's now 2024, in case you've been asleep for five years. Bob Mansfield
00:47:50 ◼ ► previously had been involved with Apple's other hardware products, right? Like he was in a bunch
00:47:55 ◼ ► of videos about MacBook Pros and stuff, so he had the chops, came back. I'm not sure what happened
00:48:00 ◼ ► here, but we blew through 2017. And about this time, like the AI stuff we spoke about on our
00:48:07 ◼ ► previous episode, about this time, research started coming out from people at Apple about
00:48:14 ◼ ► self-driving cars, about lidar systems, camera vision, computer vision, that sort of thing. So
00:48:21 ◼ ► there was work going on, sort of academic work in these areas that very clearly was going to
00:48:26 ◼ ► be tied to this product. In January of 2018, Apple registered about two dozen self-driving cars with
00:48:40 ◼ ► cars, right? They were like some vans. I think there were some Lexus SUVs, I think, if I remember
00:48:48 ◼ ► Maybe. All white, of course. And then a bunch of sensors and stuff on it. Other companies have
00:48:56 ◼ ► done this a lot. Also in here, I didn't put it in my notes, but I read it. Also in here,
00:49:00 ◼ ► there was a lawsuit about a guy who left Apple and apparently stole a bunch of self-driving
00:49:16 ◼ ► only time. This was a time period where looking at people reporting on this, looking at LinkedIn
00:49:23 ◼ ► and looking at job postings, Apple was hiring people with car suspension engineering work
00:49:35 ◼ ► This was in there too, because they were also in South Korea a bunch talking to Kia and
00:49:45 ◼ ► Which at the time seemed silly, but now if you look at what Kia's transition to electric,
00:49:53 ◼ ► yep, they're incredible. They make such great cars. And so at the time it seemed funny because
00:50:04 ◼ ► instances. But now they're crushing it. The logo is funny, but that was also a good thing.
00:50:23 ◼ ► And they are, at least in North America, killing it on the electric car front. A lot of good
00:50:31 ◼ ► 2018 also brought the hire of Doug Field. We talked about this on Connected. He was formerly
00:50:38 ◼ ► the SVP of engineering at Tesla. A job that I think later would go to Chris Latner, who
00:50:57 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly. In 2019, Apple bought a company called Drive AI. This was an AI self-driving
00:51:07 ◼ ► vehicle startup. They, according to reporting at the Verge, were getting ready to go out
00:51:12 ◼ ► of business and Apple scooped him up on the cheap. Apple bought other companies in this
00:51:16 ◼ ► time, but this I think was maybe one of the most notable ones. Definitely one of the more
00:51:42 ◼ ► Maybe. Remember there was also a report like Apple owned this building somewhere in California?
00:51:52 ◼ ► Dude, I've read so much about Apple's car stuff over the last two days. It's just like,
00:51:57 ◼ ► my brain is full of it. So John Andrea took over. And then in 2021, it was reported that
00:52:04 ◼ ► Kevin Lynch was in charge. So there was a lot of shuffling going on. And in that shuffling,
00:52:15 ◼ ► A lot of movement. Around this time, a deadline of 2024 was floated. So I guess 2017 didn't
00:52:22 ◼ ► work out. 2024, we're going to do something. And this whole time, right, there's reporting
00:52:47 ◼ ► to make, a car with no wheel. Yeah. Who would? Yeah. A yoke or something? No, no, nothing.
00:52:52 ◼ ► And then there were also reports that, okay, the self-driving stuff is harder than we thought.
00:53:00 ◼ ► Who would have guessed? And they were maybe looking at something more like GM Super Cruise,
00:53:07 ◼ ► which is really highly reviewed. But Super Cruise self-driving technology only works on
00:53:13 ◼ ► highways mapped out by GM and then fed into their system. So it's not like, it's not like
00:53:21 ◼ ► something like Tesla full self-driving where it can kind of do it wherever. And I'm not,
00:53:28 ◼ ► we're not going down that road, just saying that sentence and moving on. GM Super Cruise
00:53:33 ◼ ► is only on select highways. And maybe Apple wasn't happy with that. But after all of this,
00:53:39 ◼ ► right, this is a very like spicy decade long story. And now Gherman says it's over, a bunch
00:53:46 ◼ ► of people are going to go work on AI. No doubt some people will lose their jobs. And that sucks,
00:53:51 ◼ ► especially like in the background of all this is this kind of meta story that EV demand in
00:53:57 ◼ ► North America is really drying up. And so some of these people, it's a bad time to be let go
00:54:04 ◼ ► from a company like this, which is unfortunate, but that's where we are. And I'd love to know
00:54:10 ◼ ► what you all think about it. I definitely have thoughts, but that's kind of the background.
00:54:14 ◼ ► Well, it's a relief to start with because now none of us have to buy a car that Apple makes
00:54:29 ◼ ► Let's start with $90,000 car, right? That would have been unfortunate for everybody involved.
00:54:39 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is something that like, I kind of never really cared for it. So like,
00:54:45 ◼ ► I'm not really, you know, it would have been fun to talk about. Like there would have been
00:54:57 ◼ ► I'm kind of happy they're not doing it. I don't think that this was a good idea to be honest.
00:55:06 ◼ ► I think there is another timeline where, where yes, it was going to, but I just think it,
00:55:17 ◼ ► but I've always felt very ambivalent about the idea of the computer company now making a car.
00:55:24 ◼ ► And I mean sure there's, there's a, you know, the counter argument will be, but like for example,
00:55:31 ◼ ► Tesla used to be, you know, brand new company, never made a car before. And then they made a car
00:55:53 ◼ ► Exactly. But still like, I've always felt very like, would I really drive an Apple car?
00:56:02 ◼ ► Like would I feel safe, you know, from a company that, you know, makes smartphones and laptops and
00:57:04 ◼ ► what it can do. Like, you know, it can take in a bunch of data and can make something new out of
00:57:12 ◼ ► it. And I don't know, there's just something about like that advancement in technology makes me feel,
00:57:17 ◼ ► I feel less skeptical of the idea that a large set of data couldn't achieve that problem.
00:57:42 ◼ ► locales where traffic and driving is so wildly unpredictable and you do things that are arguably,
00:57:53 ◼ ► you know, illegal when you're driving that it is from my perspective. Yeah. Oh, by the way, Zach,
00:58:00 ◼ ► yes, this happened to me. I mean, we all assumed that that happened. It was happening to you or
00:58:05 ◼ ► you were happening it? To me, to me. So we're driving, I'm driving, Sylvia's in the passenger
00:58:11 ◼ ► seat, the dog's in the back seat and I'm just driving Sylvia to school. And I start hearing
00:58:18 ◼ ► this honk behind me, like it must be someone who's upset at somebody else because I didn't
00:58:23 ◼ ► do anything. Right. I was just driving and the honking persisted and it's like going and going.
00:58:29 ◼ ► And then after like a good minute, Sylvia's like, who's this lady behind us honking at?
00:58:44 ◼ ► aggressively toward me. She then sort of she she tries to pass me, stops her car because there was
00:58:54 ◼ ► a red light and she starts yelling at me and she gets out of the car. So basically she was and I
00:59:02 ◼ ► start I just I just laughed in her face. I just I didn't even do anything. Just started laughing.
00:59:07 ◼ ► She believed that I cut her off at an intersection, which I didn't do, which I absolutely didn't do.
00:59:24 ◼ ► I'm just wondering, like, can you not imagine a future where a computer would be able to reason
00:59:31 ◼ ► what to do in that scenario like a human can? Like why not? You don't think a computer would
00:59:36 ◼ ► ever be able to do that? I think I think self-driving can absolutely work on a highway,
00:59:41 ◼ ► on a freeway or on large roads. I don't think it's ever going to be able to figure out how you
00:59:49 ◼ ► should live in Rome or in, you know, in any other city where going downtown or in certain
01:00:07 ◼ ► I think I really think it is. I mean, I agree with you that, like, it feels much more doable
01:00:13 ◼ ► on predictable roads. Yes. Like where like America is more predictable, right? Like the
01:00:19 ◼ ► road infrastructure in Europe is very different because it's older. And so like you have a look,
01:00:23 ◼ ► y'all barely have any other Apple features because you're outside. That's true. You know,
01:00:27 ◼ ► that's true. It's going to be U.S. only forever. Progressive web apps, self-driving kind of the
01:00:33 ◼ ► same. Exactly the same thing. You got to drive it on Apple-approved roads and they're going to
01:00:38 ◼ ► take 30% of that pavement. Of the roads, of the toll booths, all toll booths, 30% of toll booths.
01:00:54 ◼ ► went into this saying like, no one else has figured this out. Tesla hasn't figured this out,
01:00:58 ◼ ► surely. Like this is a very hard thing. And these companies have the best people in the world
01:01:04 ◼ ► working at them. Right. What's the company? Waze? Wave? There's other companies out there doing
01:01:11 ◼ ► this. I forget the name of it. Waymo. Waymo. Waze is the Google mapping. Yes. Yeah. I think there's
01:01:19 ◼ ► something to that. I think there is something also that like they're going to be there for a long
01:01:24 ◼ ► time, maybe not forever, because that's a risky bet. But for a long time, they're going to people
01:01:28 ◼ ► who want to drive, who enjoy it. Right. And will struggle with self-driving. Those people are
01:01:35 ◼ ► already struggling with EVs. Right. Because they think there's something special about the internal
01:01:39 ◼ ► combustion engine and shifting your own gears. Like people are emotional about cars. And I
01:01:44 ◼ ► totally get that. And I'm, to a degree, one of those people. You're a car guy. Yeah. Yeah. I
01:01:51 ◼ ► think from the perspective of like Apple doing this, I've got a couple of big thoughts.
01:01:57 ◼ ► The, the first of which is I think we're already seeing the, the benefit of this failed project.
01:02:08 ◼ ► And that sure seems like something that, that our one chip vision pro image pipeline thing
01:02:26 ◼ ► that things are going to work a hundred percent of the time has to be present in a car. And the
01:02:32 ◼ ► vision pro, I think benefits, if not directly than indirectly from some of that work. I would,
01:02:37 ◼ ► if we were on a slightly different timeline and the car was real, I would imagine that that R1
01:02:45 ◼ ► chip would have a counterpart in the car. Probably several counterparts. The C1. We're never going
01:02:52 ◼ ► to get to experience it. It's so sad. The bigger thing for me is on the relief side. And I agree
01:02:59 ◼ ► with you. Like I read this, I was like, Oh, thankfully finally we're past this. Hopefully
01:03:03 ◼ ► it wasn't so much, even though there was a little bit of like, how do we even talk about this?
01:03:09 ◼ ► Cause this is our career. Right. But this always seemed like a weird fit for Apple, the company,
01:03:19 ◼ ► a company that predominantly makes consumer technology devices. And now a bunch of services
01:03:25 ◼ ► that feed into those devices. If you look at what they make, it's all kind of in that diagram,
01:03:40 ◼ ► and our friends and, and our community, we get to debate those differences endlessly. And we love it.
01:03:46 ◼ ► We love the car outside of that, even though the car is more and more rolling computer, right?
01:03:53 ◼ ► Even my pickup truck, which is like internal combustion engine, right? It is, it is not an EV.
01:03:59 ◼ ► Even that has some limited like computing stuff going on, right? It can center itself in the lane.
01:04:08 ◼ ► It has radar cruise control. It has, um, these other like built-in features, like secure safety
01:04:15 ◼ ► is going to stop me before I hit something or before I back into traffic. Computers and cars
01:04:22 ◼ ► are on a collision course. And it felt weird to me that Apple was going to potentially be the first
01:04:31 ◼ ► big tech company to get there because it just doesn't seem like something they would be good at.
01:04:35 ◼ ► How do you sell it? How do you service it? How do you manage the relationship over a long time?
01:04:44 ◼ ► We're talking about people with an iPhone for four or five years, a Mac five, six, seven years.
01:04:48 ◼ ► People buy a car and ideally want to keep it for a long, long time. And that's a question all EV
01:04:56 ◼ ► make, all EV makers have to face. And so far the answers aren't super encouraging. Uh, if you're
01:05:03 ◼ ► going to try to find like an early model S, uh, from Tesla or even like a Chevy volt or bolt, like
01:05:11 ◼ ► older GM electric cars, like there's a lot of questions there and how was Apple going to be
01:05:17 ◼ ► different and be able to, to manage that relationship over a long time. I just didn't see
01:05:23 ◼ ► them being good at it. And so I, as sad as this news is for the people involved and that sucks,
01:05:30 ◼ ► like, I'm not trying to not say that, but I think from the 40,000 foot view, this was never going to
01:05:38 ◼ ► be a good fit with what Apple's good at. And from that perspective, I'm kind of glad this is the end
01:05:44 ◼ ► of the road for this project. Do we expect that they're going to try and like be more present in
01:05:52 ◼ ► cars with carplay and stuff like that? Do you think maybe more effort will go into that now
01:05:57 ◼ ► for as much as car companies might want or not? I don't know about more effort, but one other
01:06:11 ◼ ► than Tesla, Rivian and GM's electric vehicles where they're not allowing carplay. They're not
01:06:18 ◼ ► allowing Android auto because they want to control the whole stack and they think it's better. And
01:06:23 ◼ ► there are some benefits to that. Like the phone experience, not knowing about the battery state
01:06:30 ◼ ► of the car and that sort of thing. These things just have to be closer together. That is a huge
01:06:35 ◼ ► uphill battle for Apple. And one so far that they've been only partially successful at because
01:06:41 ◼ ► they're not on Tesla's, they're not on Rivian's, they're not on GM electric vehicles. But as hard
01:06:47 ◼ ► as that is already, if they were in the marketplace with their own car, game over for carplay. I think
01:06:53 ◼ ► I think it would really be hard for them to convince car makers to either get in bed with
01:07:03 ◼ ► carplay in the first place or to stay there. And now that they're not going to be shipping a car,
01:07:08 ◼ ► it seems like they don't have that additional hurdle. I don't think it means carplay is like
01:07:17 ◼ ► totally set, ready to go and like it's going to succeed. But I think it is good for carplay
01:07:22 ◼ ► in the sense that it keeps Apple's relationship with these other companies a little bit simpler.
01:07:30 ◼ ► And the, you know, the report you were mentioning is that the, a lot of people are now going to move
01:07:37 ◼ ► to AI and they're going to start working on generative AI stuff at Apple instead of the
01:07:41 ◼ ► people that are in these teams under Kevin Lynch, under John Giannandrea. Yeah, Kevin sandwich.
01:07:47 ◼ ► Yes. I guess that probably makes sense, right? I think there's a lot of overlap there in terms of
01:07:54 ◼ ► computer vision. A lot of the real time OS stuff maybe not be, may not be extremely applicable to
01:08:02 ◼ ► AI, but in terms of optimization and efficiency in computing, all that's good. And so I would imagine
01:08:11 ◼ ► that there are things that they were working on there that yeah, the project they were working on
01:08:16 ◼ ► may not move over, but they sort of information they have and the sort of experience and knowledge
01:08:34 ◼ ► I, you know, I'm just going to put my flag in the ground. Like I really want to know everything
01:08:43 ◼ ► about this and I cannot wait 30 years for the book. I would just love to know what Apple and
01:08:49 ◼ ► Johnny Ive and these people thought the future was going to be. I think that does it. If you want to
01:08:56 ◼ ► find links to the stuff we spoke about this week, they're in your podcast player. They're also on
01:09:00 ◼ ► the web at relay.fm/connected/491. There's a feedback form on the website, and there's a link
01:09:07 ◼ ► in the pod, in your podcast player to leave us feedback. There's an option to make it anonymous.
01:09:11 ◼ ► So if you know more about Project Titan and you want to spill the beans, please let us know.
01:09:17 ◼ ► You can also become a member and get connected pro, which is the longer ad free version of the
01:09:21 ◼ ► show each and every week. Like Mike said at the top, we had a really, I think a really good
01:09:25 ◼ ► conversation about Nintendo and emulators and lawsuits and what a time. If you want more of us,
01:09:32 ◼ ► you can find us online. You can find Federico at maxstories.net, where he's the editor in chief.
01:09:38 ◼ ► Some, some fun stuff coming to max stories. Yes. Stay tuned. I'll just, I'll leave it there. You
01:09:45 ◼ ► can follow Mike. You can follow Mike. Well, you can follow Mike, but I'm talking about Federico
01:09:49 ◼ ► right now. You can follow Federico. Follow Mike. Follow Mike. You can follow Federico as Vitici,
01:10:11 ◼ ► Panetic, Thoroughly Considered, Remastered, Analog. Don't try and list them all because
01:10:17 ◼ ► you'll forget one and then you'll upset someone. You can also find Mike's work over at Cortex