0:00:00So, hey, I just got back from Tennessee. Howdy, y'all. Sweet. Are you gonna say that now?
0:00:06Like that's, you know how like, you ever know those people in your life that like, they go to, you know, say England or something? Like some country and then they come back and they have kind of a half accent like forever after that point?
0:00:16I gotta tell you, the lift at the hotel was extremely slow. I was very sad about it. You're gonna break John. I know John is gonna... Don't they say "howdy" in Tennessee? Is that a howdy state? I don't even know, to be honest with you.
0:00:28Texas seems like a howdy state. It's definitely a y'all state.
0:00:31I mean, I'm in a y'all state, so who am I to really throw stones on that issue?
0:00:34So, honestly, I kind of wish I was in a y'all state because it's like the the second person plural is extremely useful and the rest of English doesn't really, you know, we just have you and you.
0:00:44I think y'all is spreading. I think I need to see a y'all map. I think it's spreading. I don't think it's South only anymore.
0:00:49I hear it. I hear it a lot around here. I used it myself a lot at work. I heard it a lot at work at my jobby jobs.
0:00:54Yeah, I cannot fathom, like unironically, not trying to do like it just I think it is
0:01:00It's not common, but I think it's spreading. I am here for you. Mr. John Syracuse was saying y'all like that that warms my mind.
0:01:07I'm sure I have said it on the show and I bet you two didn't even bat an eye at it.
0:01:12Well, I certainly wouldn't. I'm used to hearing it. Like I didn't say it with a southern accent.
0:01:16I just... I think you're required to say it with a little bit of a southern accent though.
0:01:19Like when you like I feel like I mean for the service it provides is wonderful
0:01:23and I thank the South for this because like, you know as as we have become a little bit more aware of
0:01:28Inclusion and things that you know trying to get rid of gendered phrases like guys, you know to refer to just general people
0:01:34Hey guys, you know
0:01:34like we're trying to drop that and
0:01:36Replace it with something more neutral and you see like what options exist in the language and there's not a lot of good options out
0:01:42There you know, there's like some some politicians have used like folks, you know, hey folks. I like that one
0:01:47I use the one myself too. I think it's great. I don't like that one so much very folksy
0:01:52Yeah, well, yeah, and that's that's fine sometimes but that's not always appropriate
0:01:55But I feel like if you're in a y'all region y'all is pretty much always usable
0:02:00Like there's not really any context in which it would feel weird or impart any additional
0:02:04Meaning that you wouldn't intend the way folks kind of does so I feel like y'all is a far superior word
0:02:09What what unintended meaning this folks imply? Yeah, it's kind of folksy
0:02:13It's fine. It just just means people. It's a shorter version for people. There's I don't think is anything applied about folks
0:02:20Yeah, I think you're reading a little too much into that
0:02:22In fact, if anything and I'm a staunch defender of y'all, but I think y'all reads more or sounds more folksy than folks
0:02:28Nevertheless here we are. So yeah, so I went to Memphis
0:02:33I got to tell you there's clearly no
0:02:35Motor vehicle safety inspection in Tennessee because every darn car that I was in or near had a shattered windshield, but be that as it may
0:02:42No, it was very nice. I had a very good time
0:02:45I went and I saw our mutual friends Stephen Hackett who of course lives in Memphis
0:02:49But was also hosting in more ways than one which we'll get to in a second
0:02:52I saw Jason Snell
0:02:53Kathy Campbell a couple of the discord mods Micah Sargent
0:02:56So many people that I saw and it was so great to see them because I hadn't seen any of them since 2019
0:03:01And so now I've been whittling down the list of people. I haven't seen you know, Marco and I saw each other in November
0:03:06I believe it was and then Mike I saw in March if I'm not mistaken now, I've seen this group
0:03:12Someone seen John. Mm-hmm. Looking right at John
0:03:14Object permanence even when you don't see me I still exist
0:03:19In any case I was down in Memphis because it is not September
0:03:23However, we are getting prepped for September because if you are a longtime or even a mildly longtime ATP listener
0:03:29You'll know that September is childhood cancer awareness month and we spend a lot of time and energy raising money for st
0:03:35Jude Children's Research Hospital, so st. Jude was doing their play life Plus creators summit
0:03:41Which I guess was born from a video game only crowd in the like twitch streamers and whatnot
0:03:48And they would come in every year
0:03:50I guess I've been doing this for a handful of years and they would come in and you know learn about st
0:03:53Jude if they'd never been there and you know talk to other creators about how you know
0:03:58You can be more effective at raising money for st. Jude and so on and so forth
0:04:00it was really lovely but it was very very weird because I
0:04:03I'm used to being an outcast for being a total dork
0:04:07But in this case I was an outcast because I wasn't the right kind of dork because I don't know
0:04:14See I was gonna say like so they did this is a thing where they were together with like twitch streamers and stuff and it sounds
0:04:19Like this year they decided to expand it out into much less cool dorks. Oh, correct. That is true
0:04:24Gasters are welcome now. Well, no, no, it was actually both less cool and more cool dorks because there were definitely some like fashion
0:04:32influencers and whatnot cooler definitely cooler
0:04:35Fitness I couldn't think of the word for a second there fitness people
0:04:40Cooler then then the gamer people who were kind of de facto cool because there were so many of them and then me
0:04:46Podcasters yeah, then a handful podcasters, but it was right now like nobody made me feel like an outsider deliberately
0:04:53But it's funny because everyone kind of traded on you know
0:04:56What what do you stream as in what video games do you stream and and that I'd had no good answer for that and it's again
0:05:02Nobody was trying to be rude or unkind or anything like that or dismissive
0:05:05It's just you know, that's what they were used to. But anyway, so what did you say when they said what do you stream?
0:05:09What did you say? I actually don't I am actually a podcaster and you know
0:05:13I'm part of a group that raises a whole pile of money and I said, oh and walked away pretty much
0:05:17Yeah, they're like, oh, what's your YouTube channel? Yeah
0:05:19No, not quite that bad but that's a fair guess but yeah
0:05:24so we went and we learned a little more about st. Jude and I got to take a tour of the campus and
0:05:29Let me tell you I know that I think I speak for all three of us
0:05:33But I certainly speak for myself in saying I was pretty in the bag for st. Jude
0:05:36Anyway, even before this trip and holy crap Amole. I am so in the bag for st. Jude right now
0:05:42It's ridiculous because this stuff these people do is incredible and I mean admittedly, you know
0:05:48This is a conference or whatever put on by st. Jude to make you excited about st. Jude
0:05:51So, you know, I am considering the source
0:05:53however
0:05:54they brought up several different people both employees and patients and everyone in between that said some flavor of the story of
0:06:01Yeah, either myself or my spouse or you know, my my son or daughter or my cousin or what have you had an extraordinarily?
0:06:08weird and
0:06:11probably uncurable illness I
0:06:13Was told by my doctors. I have a 10% chance to live then somebody had the idea. Oh, let's call st
0:06:19Jude and see what happens and then within hours
0:06:21I had plane tickets to Memphis and within days I was getting treated and there were many of these stories
0:06:27It's it's unreal what they do there. It's it's just incredible and they were talking about the family Commons
0:06:32Which I think we talked about during September last year
0:06:34But basically they took an entire floor of the hospital and said here's what we're gonna do
0:06:37We're gonna not do hospital things here. We're gonna have a salon. We're gonna have a place where you get your nails done
0:06:42We're gonna have classrooms. We're gonna have makerspace. They told a story of a young girl that
0:06:47Yeah was terminal
0:06:49She knew she was you know going to pass and she decided to make an album
0:06:54For her family to listen to after she passed away like I basically cried for three straight days. It was it was nuts. So I
0:07:00Know it's not September
0:07:02I know we're not quite ready to start to try to guilt you into giving us all well
0:07:06Not us giving them all of your money
0:07:07But let's just say I am so prepared to triple down on giving st
0:07:13Jude as much of your hard-earned money as we possibly can because they really do just incredible incredible work there and it's so
0:07:20Incredibly moving the work that they do and you know, I put a blog post up about this will link it in the show notes
0:07:24But there's a pavilion of some sort
0:07:28I think that's what they call it on campus where the founders are actually interred
0:07:31But it's also kind of like a history of st
0:07:33Jude and they had this this easel with sort of thing up and it says what inspires you and then I had a bunch of
0:07:39Post-it notes were pre-printed on the post-it notes was I went to st
0:07:42Jude and was inspired by and you know
0:07:44I was killing sometimes I was looking around at some of these answers and a lot of them are just really adorable and cute whatever
0:07:48But one of them and I have pictures of both of these on this blog post one of them reads
0:07:53It's clearly in the handwriting of a child the fact I went to st
0:07:57Jude I was expired inspired by the fact that I will make it with a heart below it like holy balls
0:08:02My I mean cheesy peasy then the next one I went to st
0:08:05Jude and was inspired by the lives they saved including mine. I mean, how can you not be excited about this organization?
0:08:12So this was a part of the reason a large part of the reason I was there is because in September
0:08:16We're gonna have a weird recording schedule because I will be at st. Jude for the relay FM podcastathon, which is 12 hours of non-stop
0:08:23Shenanigans, I don't even know how to describe it
0:08:26If you've not tuned in you really should even you know
0:08:29Even if I don't end up going for some strange reason you should tune in because it's incredible and this organization
0:08:35It really does
0:08:37It phenomenal incredible important life-changing
0:08:41Saving work and I'm so proud that the three of us have done so much to raise money for them
0:08:47I'm so proud to be associated with relay who has done so so much to raise money for them
0:08:52It's just such an incredible incredible place and there's also really good barbecue real right nearby, which is a which is a nice
0:08:58That always helps. No, it's a lot of fun at Memphis
0:09:02We went to the pyramid which is a best pro shops, which you two northerners know nothing about
0:09:06And we also had some barbecue and we got to visit the pod cabin. So I took a picture with my
0:09:12Cardboard cutout from the last podcastathon if you don't know what I'm talking about
0:09:16Well, you know, you should find out watch the podcastathon September, but it was a really good time
0:09:20Stephen's great host and we had a ton of fun and I'm so excited to go back in September and try to raise a whole pile
0:09:25of money for st. Jude
0:09:27Let's start with some follow-up and
0:09:30Pretty much the whole of the internet wrote to tell us about this tip, which I had known
0:09:36But in the heat of the moment, I didn't think of it at all
0:09:38and so I failed you John but friend of the show Dan Sturm has come through and told us there is a
0:09:43Way to toggle a dimmable light in the home app and in homekit John. What's the story here?
0:09:49Secret is you have to tap the icon on the button not the whole rest of the button
0:09:56Which includes the text and a bunch of other area
0:09:58Couple people wrote in with the idea that this used to be reversed and it used to be if you tapped anywhere
0:10:05But the icon it would toggle the light on and off. I don't know if that's true or not
0:10:09But anyway, I tested it and it does indeed work
0:10:12I was complaining that every time I go to
0:10:14Control Center or tap the home icon and you know try to mess with my light side that brings up the dimmer and
0:10:19Someone sent me a video and I said doesn't bring up a dimmer for me. It turns my life on and off
0:10:22It's a dimmable light
0:10:23But when I tap it it turns on it turns off completely and I just I did it on my phone
0:10:28I'm like nope brings up the dimmer for me and we never would have figured this out until
0:10:33Hundreds of people said yes, you have to tap
0:10:36Specifically on the icon. These are very big buttons. They're very big touch targets, and I guess I just always tap on the
0:10:43You know three-quarters of the button that is not the icon
0:10:46Maybe it's because I'm using my thumb and I'm coming from the right side because I'm using my right hand
0:10:50But yeah, that's some slightly undiscoverable UI but it is good to know
0:10:54It's not like that the icon is small now that I know it. I think I'll be able to aim for it
0:10:58I kind of wish it was reversed or I still kind of wish you could just say just make the whole button talk light
0:11:02I don't know but there you have it the icon does something different than the whole rest of the button
0:11:07Pedro Fernandez has some information about the haze AT command set. What was this born out of the member special?
0:11:14Is that right? Is that where this started or was that on the main?
0:11:16I assume so
0:11:17Yeah
0:11:17Because we were talking about like, you know me getting all these old slow modems slowly over time and still remembering all the AT commands
0:11:23Mm-hmm. So Pedro writes 80 commands are far from being a thing in the past
0:11:27Oh, no, if you do any kind of development with 4g or 5g connectivity data modules or modems you talk to them with AT commands
0:11:34Ata answer ATD dial are all still alive and yes
0:11:38They remain a pain I've worked on hundreds of systems and they all require a routine quote-unquote cron
0:11:44Reboot to make sure that they keep answering those AT commands. It sounds great
0:11:48You don't want to drive 300 miles to unfreeze a 4g or 5g data module. Yeah that that sounds right
0:11:53It's amazing that uh, the modern technology and our modern phone systems this things like this live on
0:11:59They really shouldn't say really really shouldn't but you know, here we are
0:12:04TSMC has unveiled advanced
0:12:071.6 nanometer process for 2026 chips. Do we eventually get to zero? Is that how this works? Cuz holy Jamal
0:12:14Yeah, that's yeah as we've discussed before Morris law does end because at a certain point you can't make things smaller
0:12:19Well, I mean to be fair like when I was growing up that I believe these are measured in micrometers
0:12:23So the the unit has just changed to the next smaller unit
0:12:28I mean, you're right eventually, you know, we can't make them smaller because we run into problems of like physics
0:12:32But but we are not there yet
0:12:34This was from Mac rumors from just a few days ago TSMC yesterday on April 24th unveiled a series of technologies
0:12:41including the quote-unquote a 16 process which is a
0:12:441.6 nanometer node the a 16 technology which TSMC plans to begin producing in 2026 incorporates innovative nanosheet
0:12:51Transistors along with novel backside power rail solution
0:12:55This development is expected to provide an 8 to 10 percent increase in speed and 15 to 20 percent reduction power
0:13:00consumption at the same speeds compared with TSNC's
0:13:03n2p process alongside a
0:13:061.07 to 1.1 X chip density improvement
0:13:11I put the story in here for two reasons one. I had just been discussing on Mastodon
0:13:16Someone had mentioned TSMC's backside power thing and I'm like, I thought that was an Intel thing
0:13:20We think we talked about it on a show a while ago
0:13:21where Intel has the technology to send power
0:13:24through the bottom of the chip instead of the top because if you send it through the top you gotta like wiggle it around all
0:13:28The logic to get it to the power spots where if you send it from the bottom
0:13:31It's a more direct route and you don't have to do that complicated weaving through all the logic that you put in the chip
0:13:37So that's interesting
0:13:38This is confirming the TSMC does have a backside power solution, which is good
0:13:41and the second reason is they're calling it a 16 as if we didn't have enough problems with
0:13:48max powered by the m3 max
0:13:51And and keeping track of the fact that the a5 was the first a series chip, but it was not in the iPhone 5 now
0:13:59They're gonna call the process
0:14:01A16 we are doomed on this show. Like there's they need to come up with new names for things
0:14:07The this is gonna be the a 19 chip made on the a 16 process
0:14:11Oh my god, and and the the the m5 chip is not based on the a 17 cores
0:14:17It's based on a 19 cores using the a 16 process. It's a good thing
0:14:21We're going to season of iOS 18, which is also watch OS 11, which is also vision OS 2 and Matt
0:14:27What's and what are we at Mac OS now? I've forgotten already
0:14:29I mean with all the ridiculousness of like n to be and into E and into P at least it was different than it
0:14:34the chips
0:14:36Oh God
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0:16:31Rabbit are one reviews. This is the thing made by Teter
0:16:38excuse me designed by Teenage Engineering made by the company rabbit the reviews are in and
0:16:44Yikes, not looking too good. So John you collected a trio of different reviews
0:16:50We've got Stephen Robles on YouTube and KB HD on YouTube. We've got the verge via tag or a blog post about it
0:16:59It's it's not looking good. Y'all that there it is. Yeah, it's not looking good
0:17:03All right
0:17:04So the same Robles videos good is it shows you all the functionality and how poorly it works?
0:17:09The MKB HD one is just a straight review as you would expect the MKB HD title is barely
0:17:14Reviewable the the verge title is a fun funky unfinished AI gadget
0:17:19I recall when we talked about the rabbit are one originally
0:17:23It was everything was framed is if this works is a really good idea
0:17:26I think at some point one of us even said if this works, which it won't well, it doesn't
0:17:31You know fairness. I'm pretty sure I was always of the don't bet against the smartphone opinion
0:17:37Yeah, no, but even it's even setting that aside just like the whole idea
0:17:40Like what they're trying to do is clever
0:17:42But it doesn't seem like they're gonna be able to do it now the first version
0:17:45And when I say it doesn't seem like it be able to do it like will it do the things they say it will do
0:17:51And the answer right now is no
0:17:53It tries to it tries to do like for example you speak to it and can order something from door -
0:17:59But does it order something from door -?
0:18:01Pretty much. No like watch watch the Steven Robles video like no he could not make it do the thing
0:18:07And he's had some follow videos with slightly more success
0:18:11But it takes so long that's setting aside everything having to do with like you know
0:18:16Whether this is should be a phone or whatever. It's because it's it's a it's a small company. It's a new product. It's new technology
0:18:24It's trying to do new things which is like you know automating the function automating the use of a UI made for humans
0:18:30But having a computer do it in response to your voice, right?
0:18:34It's a very clever solution to the problem that a start-up like this doesn't have its own large language model can't do deals with
0:18:40Door - they have to go around it. It's very good idea
0:18:43Execution is not good even within the constraints of the idea that they had which is a shame
0:18:51but you know hey, it's 200 bucks which is a third of the price of the
0:18:55Humane pin and the company seems like a lot more fun, and this is just version one and if they survive long enough
0:19:00Maybe it'll be a version two and a version three and they'll fix their bug so I
0:19:05Even though it seems like you'd put this on the humane pin in the same bucket of like oh they have this idea of the thing
0:19:11You're gonna talk to it. It's gonna do stuff for you and both of them didn't quite work. I have
0:19:14Kinder feelings for the rabbit are one because it's cuter cheaper and has a better idea
0:19:21But neither one of them seems like it's really doing what you want to do
0:19:24I mean ultimately I don't think either of them is a good idea
0:19:27and and I think I've been pretty consistent on this these are ideas that we as
0:19:32Gadget people and as tech people we want things like this to succeed we want them to be good
0:19:38But ultimately it which I think we'll get to in a second
0:19:40But ultimately like the phone is just going to slaughter all these things and what we ultimately want
0:19:45Is for our phones to just do these things this that's what we want
0:19:49We don't want to buy and carry and charge and maintain and pay for plans
0:19:55For another device we just want our phone to this and there is really no
0:20:02Like technical hardware reason why our phones can't do this like it isn't like we need custom hardware
0:20:09To have these kind of AI things. No, we we already have it in our phones and maybe our watches too
0:20:15Like that's that's where you want this functionality you want it in the devices
0:20:19We already have that we have already bought that are already extremely advanced with their hardware
0:20:25They're you know, they're cellular connected there. They have amazing processors. They have amazing cameras
0:20:30They have touch screens that are super easy to navigate stuff on when you do need to look at something or watch or look at
0:20:35Controls or whatever. They're already integrated with all of your contacts and everything like that all the other apps
0:20:41You might want to use in the process like ultimately what we want is
0:20:44that we want this on our phones and
0:20:48Probably over the next you know month and about seven days
0:20:52We're probably gonna see both major smartphone platform vendors
0:20:58Unveil exactly that like I fully expect Google I/O and
0:21:02WWDC to give us all sorts of promise about things that Android and iPhones will be able to do in the very near future
0:21:10That will make us very rapidly stop talking about this being separate hardware categories because ultimately these this is not
0:21:18Destined to be separate hardware categories. This is all destined to just be part of our phones
0:21:22the reason we're talking about on this show and the reason these products exist is
0:21:27Connected unfortunately for the people who don't like this topic to the whole EU DMA DOJ everything
0:21:33Because the reason these things are standalone devices is they have to be they have to be and they and they also they want to
0:21:39Be and they have to be they want to be in that like look if you're trying to if you want to be the next
0:21:44Apple
0:21:45Making an app for the iPhone. It's not the way to be the next Apple
0:21:48So if you have ambitions like we're gonna make the next great platform and we see an opportunity
0:21:51Here where the big players haven't jumped on AI and we think this is a way that we can get in
0:21:56So let's imagine this device really did work magically
0:21:59well
0:21:59and somehow only
0:22:00rabbit or only humane had the secret sauce to make it work and they had a couple year head start on Apple and they're like
0:22:05If we can get big and we can get going. Yes. We're at a big disadvantage
0:22:07But like maybe well, maybe we'll outrun them or whatever. Obviously that has not happened, right?
0:22:11So they want to be their own but also they have to be their own because to make anything like this
0:22:17And I think there is some reason to have separate
0:22:19Separate hardware as in like a thing with a camera that you pin to your lapel or whatever
0:22:23Is that the integration they need with the phone platforms? They tend not to be able to get certainly with Apple
0:22:29I'm not sure with Android but like for example, you can't replace Siri on the iPhone
0:22:33So if your ambition is to be a much better Siri and but replace Siri on the phone, that would be great
0:22:37Everyone's got the phones. We're charging them. They're incredibly powerful. Someone else runs the platform. You don't have to do it
0:22:41But Oh Apple doesn't let you replace Siri do they and they don't let you integrate with their phone so tightly that you how like
0:22:47Is that it's almost like Apple doesn't let its own watch integrate that well with it because there's so much
0:22:51connectivity issues between the watches and phones it's gotten better over time, but still
0:22:55So there was a story in
0:22:579to5 Mac it said AI hardware is like trying to invent the iPod after the iPhone and the whole story not once did they mention
0:23:03the fact that these companies are forced to do this because the people who own the platforms are not interested in allowing a
0:23:10Third-party to essentially be a peripheral to the phone and that's what we want like with these devices, you know AirPods are great example
0:23:17They are a peripheral to the phone. Imagine if AirPods tried to be a standalone device with a little computer
0:23:21I mean they do have computers but like a standalone device with its own OS doing everything all on itself, right connecting to
0:23:27Cellular and Wi-Fi and just like they didn't connect to the phone at all, right? That's like what these companies are doing
0:23:32You're like, why would you do that? We have phones and they have amazing computing power
0:23:35It's like yeah, but I can't integrate with them in the way I need to right so AirPods are great
0:23:40but imagine something with like a camera or a lapel or a microphone like a
0:23:45Auxiliary hardware a peripheral for your phone a thing that you don't have to take out of your pocket
0:23:50But of course uses your phone to do all the stuff
0:23:53That's what these products want to be but can't be so the fact that these companies are trying to do things that we think are
0:24:00They're the reason they're technically clever because they're working around a unfortunate business
0:24:04Situation which is they can't be the products they want to be but every time one of these products
0:24:09gets funded tries to do this and fails and we look at it and say that's a clever way to try to work around a
0:24:15sort of unfair market that is
0:24:18reinforcement to all of these
0:24:20court cases and regulations or whatever saying this is not a
0:24:24Competitive market where innovation can flourish because basically we have to sit back and wait until Google and Apple decide
0:24:31That they're going to do something and a WWDC Apple will do something and Google already is doing things
0:24:36But like we don't want to have to wait for these two companies to decide what kind of things they want to do
0:24:41People have other ideas and they would like to do them but asking them to say to do that
0:24:46You have to start from zero build your own platform
0:24:48Your own everything be completely independent of the phone because the phone companies are never not the phone companies
0:24:54You know, I mean, I'm never gonna get the integration you need. That's why this is mostly a story about the
0:25:00The sort of awkward shape of the market and you know, people are cleverly trying to get around it and it's not like they're old
0:25:06Doom to failure again if AI was better than it was and one of these companies really hit it out of the park
0:25:11There is a couple years of runway before these big companies try to buy you
0:25:14Where you could get out ahead and start doing something like what do we see recently with?
0:25:19Maybe you could say maybe the pebble watch got a little traction before the Apple watch squished it every once in a while
0:25:24There's like something that pops out that gets out ahead of one of the big tech giants before the tech giants wake up and smush
0:25:29it in this case, they don't they kind of self smushed but I
0:25:33Give them points for trying and especially rabbit. I give a lot of points for coming up with a
0:25:39low-cost clever
0:25:42Attempt to work around the Giants. But yeah, this is not what we want. We want our air pods
0:25:46To let us yell things into the air
0:25:49We want a little tiny lapel microphone or camera to see everything around us and explain everything and we want a pair of glasses to
0:25:56Put name tags over people's heads. We're not quite there yet
0:25:59There are a couple of interesting things about this first of all, I thought it was very very well done
0:26:04I think there's a mention in the 9 to 5 that 9 to 5 Mac link that Dave 2d who's a youtuber I
0:26:11Put together a clip of this that I'll put in the show notes, but is looking at the the rabbit and says well, you know
0:26:17He does a much better version than me
0:26:20But you know well
0:26:20What if we took this like the the push to talk about him moved it to the other side and actually let's make them volume
0:26:27Buttons and then we can do like the push to talk button maybe somewhere else
0:26:30We put the camera on the back now. We've got a lot more space for the screen
0:26:33Oh, look, we've made a phone like, you know
0:26:35Just by making the things and this is coming back to what you were saying Marco like by making the thing work better for the thing
0:26:41It's trying to accomplish. You've just reinvented the smartphone
0:26:43I mean and the rabbit does run Android and is that people have discovered that basically the thing that's running is essentially an Android app
0:26:49That you can take you can rip off of the rabbit and put it on an Android phone and run it there
0:26:53I love that. This is like a big story. Like of course, that's what it is
0:26:56Like that's like wait, I did you think they wrote their own operating system like the play date?
0:26:58Well, I mean, yeah, that's fairly unusual and like so much of
0:27:03You know modern hardware devices like my scanner is just an Android app and Android and Android of course is just Linux and yeah
0:27:10The language is running is just Java. Yeah, there's there's a whole bunch of hardware out there
0:27:14That is quote just an Android app running on some kind of commodity Android tablet kind of guts and you know
0:27:21And it just so happens. Oh, here's a scanner with a touchscreen. Like what do you think is powering that?
0:27:25Right. Yeah, a lot of times it's Android. It's fine. Like that's people made a big deal out of this. Oh my god
0:27:30It's just an app like yeah, of course. That's that's not a story. The story is this device can't compete with smartphones
0:27:35That's the that's the story. Yeah, and the thing is like
0:27:37It's like why didn't you just make a phone? Oh, well making a phone first off. You just made another Android phone great
0:27:43Now you're just another Android phone vendor. That's a tough business
0:27:45It's competitive like making a good Android phone is not an easy thing to do and second
0:27:50They didn't want to just make it an Android phone
0:27:52They want they wanted to be like the next big thing and that's why they're taking a stab in this direction now
0:27:58I don't know what the integration situation is like an Android
0:28:00Can you replace like the Google assistant on like Google or Samsung branded Android phones or any of the Android phones that matter?
0:28:06How open is it to you integrating to sort of have an always always reliable always connected type of high-speed low-latency
0:28:14connection between a peripheral and the thing, you know more than just Bluetooth, right?
0:28:18I don't know what that situation is like, but obviously none of these companies were interested in going that route
0:28:23they tried to be as standalone as they could possibly be and
0:28:27Being standalone is a tough gig that's kind of another thing the rabbit did and humane for that matter. No apps
0:28:33Why no apps do you want to try to run a platform?
0:28:35Do you know what it's involved with trying to run a platform and vending API's and tools and like that's insane
0:28:40Like there have been very few successful computing platforms in our entire lives. You can like count them on like fingers and toes, right?
0:28:47There's not that many of them running one successfully is incredibly hard
0:28:51So these things were like we're not even gonna try to do that
0:28:52We're just gonna like to be up an appliance a magical appliance through the use of AI. Maybe we can be independent and
0:28:58Unfortunately, the magic they relied on were LMS that are not up to this job, which is a shame
0:29:04the other thing I thought was fascinating about this was
0:29:07Watching the reactions from the press from my own like gut reaction
0:29:13When we don't need to belabor this but you know the humane people were talking about how they're you know
0:29:18God's gift to software and hardware development and how we're the best for the best for revolutionizing
0:29:23We're destroying the smartphone
0:29:25look at us and how smart we are in our colorways and this and that and everyone pooped all over them because they
0:29:30Deserved it with this the reaction I've seen is yeah, it's kind of trash but man
0:29:36It's cute and it's fun and it's cheap
0:29:38So who cares and it's just so funny to me that an ounce of humility it really does go a long way
0:29:44And when you're not trying to convince everyone that you're the second coming
0:29:48It turns out people are more receptive to even when things aren't perfect
0:29:51Although I will say the Jesse fellow seemed to be kicking rocks and humane direction an awful lot lately
0:29:56But I still think the broader point is fair that maybe just don't be a jerk and things will work out a little better for you
0:30:03Yeah, the rabbit was just so much more pragmatic such a cheaper device
0:30:06The hardware is cute, but also cheap right there their business model of trying to work around the big companies
0:30:12You know, I don't know people like $200 that's not cheap compared to 600
0:30:15It is like if you're gonna blow $200 on something that doesn't work feels much better than blowing 600 on it
0:30:19I mean they put a screen on it another example. They're like, well, let's just how about we have a screen
0:30:24How about that instead of like a laser projector right simpler cheaper, you know, it just it shows more pragmatic choices
0:30:31but in the end like they're you know, they're
0:30:34They're doomed to failure but like it just it's it's a tough gig to coming out with a product like that with so much attention on
0:30:41You for a 1.0
0:30:43It is yeah, it doesn't and and I think both of them
0:30:46I'm gonna say they don't work that like spectacular failures, but it's pretty big failure when it's not like oh, it's a little slower
0:30:54It's a little clunky
0:30:54It's a little buggy like both of them have cases where they just simply do not do what the product is supposed to do and that
0:31:00is
0:31:01Not really shippable, but they both ship so there you have it
0:31:04I'm moving along Riley tested has some feedback and information not specifically to us
0:31:10But just general feedback with regard to Delta availability. So a toot from Riley getting some questions about Delta availability
0:31:17I hope this clarifies things Delta is exclusive to alt store in the EU
0:31:21Because of Apple's new developer terms all downloads in the EU cost us 50 euro cents a year in alt store store pal
0:31:28And the App Store so we couldn't offer Delta in the EU app stores without making a page
0:31:33App Store only supports one-time paid upfront apps, so we'd have to pick a price that could support
0:31:38Years of the core technology fee alt store pals one dollar or one euro
0:31:45excuse me in 50 cent cost covers Delta's core technology fee and
0:31:49They would choose to make everything free everywhere if it wasn't for the core technology fees
0:31:54So I mean you made this bed EU so now you got to sleep in it. I thought like Apple made the bed
0:32:01Why why is it exclusive to the alt star in the EU because of the CTF yeah
0:32:05I mean, it's I think a little calm a little calm me, but you're you're more right than wrong. I'm moving the world moving along
0:32:11iPad OS has been identified as a quote-unquote digital gatekeeper under the new EU tech rules. So
0:32:17picking some
0:32:19Snippets from Mac rumors left September the European Commission designated Apple as a gatekeeper for its iOS phone operating system
0:32:25It's web browser Safari and its App Store on the same day
0:32:27the Commission opened a market investigation to whether iPad OS constitutes an important gateway for business users to reach end users in order to
0:32:33Determine if it should be designated as a gatekeeper
0:32:35The investigation is now closed according to an EC press release shared on Monday
0:32:40The Commission's investigation found that Apple presents the features of a gatekeeper in relation to iPad OS for the following reasons
0:32:46Apple number one Apple's business user numbers exceeded the quantitative threshold
0:32:4911-fold while its end user numbers were close to the threshold and predicted to predicted to rise in the near future
0:32:55Number two end users are locked into iPad OS
0:32:58I Apple leverages its large ecosystem to disincentivize and users from switching to other operating systems for tablets and
0:33:04number three business users are locked into iPad OS because of its large and commercially attractive user base and its importance for certain use cases such
0:33:11as gaming apps
0:33:12Commission is now given Apple a six-month deadline to fully comply with the obligations set by the DMCA
0:33:16Excuse me
0:33:17the DMA
0:33:18which means we should expect enforced changes in iOS and iPad OS like alternative app stores web distribution and
0:33:25Alternative browsers and that should all come to iPad OS as well in a forthcoming update. I think this makes sense
0:33:31I like how the reasons are like well, we have a bunch of criteria. I bet almost meets them, but whatever it's the same
0:33:37The same thing I don't see why they need to like justify it or have some kind of rules
0:33:42Like it's kind of weird that iPad OS didn't get folded in to begin with but they went through this little dance to say
0:33:48You know what? Yep iPad OS 2 and you know, it's arguably
0:33:52Potentially one of many possible motivations for Apple renaming, you know
0:33:58iPad OS to be its own OS was to try to make it distinct in all legal
0:34:02Circumstances or whatever, but the thing is the EC can do whatever the hell they want and this is what they want to do
0:34:07So and it just honestly it makes it simpler because I have time always forgetting. Oh, yeah, there's no alternative
0:34:14Marketplaces on iPad OS but now there will be and it's more consistent for Apple. It's more consistent for users
0:34:19It just makes more sense. So yep. I mean this this this is good. This is good. Good work you
0:34:25Mark, Ermin writes no Apple vision to launch plan before the end of
0:34:302026 so no FOMO for now I was gonna say mark with me, but I guess just me
0:34:35From Mac rumors again
0:34:40German says that Apple's latest vision pro roadmap quote doesn't currently call for a second generation model until the end of 2026 quote in
0:34:48February 2024
0:34:49He said that the device was at least 18 months away according to German sources Apple still trying to figure out a way to bring a
0:34:55Cheaper version of market before then although the company remains flummoxed by how exactly to bring down the cost
0:35:00Kind of tangentially related. I don't recall if we said this on the show, but they did actually release the second episode of the
0:35:06What is it encounter dinosaurs or something like that? Yeah immersive video
0:35:11Yeah, this was like a week or two ago actually
0:35:13And I think it might have been right after we recorded last and because of our travel
0:35:16It's been a wonky recording schedule for us, but it has been released and it's another like five minute thing and it was fine
0:35:23I did have somebody reach out on mastodon and said hey I worked on this and just so you know
0:35:28It's it's I was gonna say historically accurate. I guess that's not the right term turn a phrase
0:35:32It's scientifically accurate based on the understanding that we have today
0:35:35So like things that should have feathers have feathers and colors are as best as we think they could be at the time
0:35:41I won't be able to dig up these toots to link to them. I'm sorry, but I did find that fascinating
0:35:46But in terms of like a compelling cinematic experience, it was fine
0:35:50Yeah, I guess is what this means
0:35:53I mean trying to waiting this long for a new model to come out like that's you know
0:35:58Really putting more cold water on top of the abolition for market
0:36:01But what it basically means is the parts in this that are expensive are not getting cheaper
0:36:06Fast enough for Apple to come out with a substantially cheaper model sooner
0:36:10It seems like and well, I assume what that means is the screens, right?
0:36:13Because we know that the M series so sees the cost of those, you know
0:36:18They're not the most expensive component in this thing. Anyway, and Apple has some control over that and the aluminum and stuff
0:36:24Well, that's kind of the same. Yes
0:36:25They could make it cheaper by dropping the screen by dropping the front screen
0:36:28but the screens that are in front of your eyeballs are not made by a lot of companies are not in wide supply and
0:36:34Apparently are not going to get cheap enough fast enough for Apple to come out with something sooner
0:36:40so this is gonna be a long wait with the what it's like who would have predicted that the
0:36:45The Apple like the glasses the goggles the VR whatever we were talking about the headset
0:36:50But we were talking about before this was released that will end up being essentially an HomePod like product
0:36:56Where they release one and it sits there and people go. Hmm Apple still doing this thing or
0:37:01So I know it's not a good a good comparison when people start thinking of your product the same way
0:37:08They think of the HomePod the big HomePod that is but if this is true and there's not any other
0:37:14vision pro hardware until the end of 2026
0:37:18That's HomePod vibes. Well, and oh, I don't I don't think that's
0:37:23You know people people are making a big deal out of that news. I don't think that's that surprising
0:37:29I think the bigger surprise for me with this launch is that Apple seems to be putting no wood behind the arrow
0:37:34Like there's there's just like no content besides one episode dinosaurs
0:37:37I guess cool, but like what this product needs. Yeah, it needs to be radically cheaper
0:37:42But as you mentioned like there's some pretty critical inhibitions to making it cheaper that are gonna stay that way for
0:37:47Probably at least like five years like, you know, we're not close to making it cheaper at least a lot cheaper like yeah
0:37:54Yeah, you know you could make it a little bit cheaper with some of the cuts here and there as you're mentioning
0:37:57But like it's not gonna be a mass-market priced device for some time if ever so in the meantime
0:38:04All right, how do you make what it is this?
0:38:07$3,500 plus device how how do you make that?
0:38:11valuable to the people who will buy it who can afford it and
0:38:15That's the part that's the surprise to me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot happening there yet
0:38:21Like I would have assumed since there really was no like, you know competitive pressure to release this when they did
0:38:28I would have assumed it would be more like you mentioned the play that a little earlier casey
0:38:31Like when panic launched a play date
0:38:33They had like a whole year of games that were like planned and scheduled
0:38:38every week after it was launched a new game came out and
0:38:42They had all this content lined up and all these deals with developers lined up
0:38:46And so they knew that yes
0:38:48We're selling a brand new hardware platform with no installed base and no software library that will be there when we get there
0:38:55So we have to create that so they did like and that was a great strategy. It worked very well. I
0:39:00Assumed that Apple was releasing it when they were
0:39:03Because they had plans to give it a real, you know oomph kind of release that seems to not have been the case
0:39:12Apple doesn't have panic money, you know
0:39:14How many people does panic have there there's such a big corporation with huge staff incredibly well resourced
0:39:23You can't really expect Apple to compete with that, right?
0:39:25exactly, so like that's like that's what that's what the vision pro needs like what it needs is
0:39:30Reasons for the people who are willing to spend 35 $3500 which again that's not gonna be mass market for some time
0:39:37But there is a market for high-end luxury electronics like those markets exist
0:39:42They're not massive, but they exist Apple has served them in other ways before there is a market there at the current price
0:39:49But even at the current price Apple's not really
0:39:54addressing the market in other
0:39:57Non-price ways and if they launched a brand new hardware revision, you know in in six months or a year instead of this
0:40:04This rumor of 2026 whatever like if they launched one earlier, that's not gonna change that like what's holding it back right now is
0:40:11Mostly not the hardware
0:40:14It's the price which won't change for a long time and the ecosystem and the software just kind of not like
0:40:19What's the killer app? Where's the killer content? That's what we need now. They don't need more hardware releases
0:40:25They need apps and content. Well, they kind of need both
0:40:28I mean like I know one was kind of more important than the other but like that's the reason I compared it to the home
0:40:33Pod is when people don't see updates to a product year over year, especially for like three years in a row
0:40:38they start to wonder about the company's commitment and that's really death for a new platform and
0:40:43Even though new hardware like it's I mean, it's not gonna be that different within a year or two
0:40:48Like what the technology is not advancing that quickly, but it does show Oh Apple still committed to this
0:40:53They've made some twain even if it's just like physical changes like we have a little bit better ideas for straps now that we've put
0:40:57These out in the field and we have a little bit a better idea about fit, right?
0:41:01Even if it's exactly the same screen still an m2 like just minor revisions shows that the company is committed to the product
0:41:09No, that's not gonna move the market, but it will make people feel a little bit more comfortable
0:41:12Especially if you're you know a a tech gadget fan that like Apple is committed to this obviously content also
0:41:20Would do that to make you know that Apple's committed to but if they just release content and everyone was loving it three years in
0:41:26They'd be like, okay. I love it so much
0:41:28But what they need to release more of this and need to make a cheaper one because no one's gonna buy this is too expensive
0:41:32And I think it's great
0:41:33But you know, there's two things is one
0:41:34It does need to get better like at some point in some number of years
0:41:38There should be a better technically better version
0:41:40But of course that will be equally expensive or even more expensive and then there also needs to be a cheaper one
0:41:44but right now it looks kind of like the original home pod in multiple ways in that
0:41:48Like maybe they'll be sitting in warehouses
0:41:50Unsold like the big home pods were and then when Apple does come out with the new one would like the home pod mini
0:41:55They'll be like, you know what?
0:41:57We just kind of decided that people actually just need a cheaper worse
0:42:00One of these like the home pod mini and we'll just stop making the big one
0:42:03But we changed our mind. We'll make the big one again. And here's a better one. Like that's not a good path
0:42:07For instilling confidence and the home pods not even a platform. That's the home pod is not a platform
0:42:13It's just a thing that people stick in their house
0:42:15This is a platform and so you need people to believe in it need developers to believe in it
0:42:19You need users to believe in it
0:42:21you need to have it show signs of life and one of the ways you can show signs of life is
0:42:25Don't wait three years between changing the hardware at all. I mean see also the mac pro
0:42:30right
0:42:32I mean, I think it's really
0:42:34It's been extremely surprising for me
0:42:37Like you were saying a moment ago Marco that there really hasn't been much of a push for content like since the launch
0:42:44What have we gotten we've gotten the MLS thing that everyone hated including me
0:42:48we've gotten the dinosaur a second dinosaurs episode and that's
0:42:53It right like yeah other than some some bug fixes and mild improvements to the OS and in some legitimately pretty
0:43:02solid improvements to
0:43:04Just personas. Oh in the addition of spatial personas
0:43:07But even still like that's not that much and you would think and I think the playdate is a just perfect
0:43:13Case study and how to do this, right?
0:43:14You would think that they knew when this was gonna come out and they would have
0:43:18Cued up a whole bunch of this content and it seems like they just didn't
0:43:23Have Netflix and YouTube app. Oh, well, right
0:43:26Well, I mean talk about like a way to get content for quote-unquote for free like hey Netflix content YouTube
0:43:31It's kind of it had to be third parties to like make these own kind of a webkit enabled
0:43:37Screen scraping clients to try to do something useful out of it. Yeah, it's just it's not pretty good
0:43:42Are we still I think we're still waiting on those coming soon new environments, right? Oh, that's true. Yeah
0:43:46Yeah, I forgot about that is all those gonna come out the end of 2026 - yeah fair Netflix and YouTube
0:43:51Those are third parties
0:43:53There's lots of reasons why that's kind of out of Apple's control some of which are their fault
0:43:58But it but still like, you know, that's not within their control directly. They could have thrown more money at it
0:44:03They could have maybe I mean, but you know, that's that's more of like, you know
0:44:06A corporate politics thing like I get that's kind of a bigger picture problem for them
0:44:11But there are things within Apple's power to do that they seem to not have done yet
0:44:15So for instance, they do have content studios. They could be making more of this content
0:44:21They could have made it in advance certain deals. They could make with other content providers, you know things like the sports leads
0:44:26I'm sure those I'm sure those are all like in progress or in talks
0:44:29But you need something there now for people to use this device with now and then of course
0:44:35Other things that they could make themselves directly like things like the environments we were saying or their own apps
0:44:40Yeah, yeah. Yeah, every Apple app that shipped is an iPad app on the vision Pro is kind of like, yeah
0:44:45I know this this comes up occasionally whenever when we I want you to know out there audience when we criticize Apple
0:44:51We get heat from you from other Apple fans. So we don't criticize Apple, you know
0:44:58Unnecessarily or or but you know cavalierly
0:45:01This is just like no matter how much we all want the vision Pro to succeed because it is amazing technology
0:45:08Like we all we all are rooting for this. We were rooting for this. We still are rooting for this to succeed
0:45:14We want this to succeed
0:45:16But it just looks like Apple is fumbling the ball so badly sorry for the sports analogy
0:45:21I'm not good with sports
0:45:22but like it just looks like they're they just were not prepared to have actually launched us and it almost seems like
0:45:28We have more faith in the product than large parts of Apple do and and that's concerning and and the problem is if
0:45:36They don't put a bunch of wood behind that arrow no one's going to buy it and keep it and keep using it and the platform
0:45:43Will fail even though it's an amazing piece of hardware if the outcome that we want is for this product to succeed
0:45:50We should be bugging bugging Apple from the outside be like hey, you know, you gotta like do something here, right?
0:45:56Like, you know, this is not gonna fix itself like this the situation in the vision Pro right now
0:46:01Over time this is not going to get better unless changes are made like this isn't something that will work itself out
0:46:07It isn't like oh, we're just right around the corner from a bunch of apps being made for it
0:46:11Like I keep seeing my overcast usage graph go down on the vision Pro
0:46:16It is now about a hundred and twenty people
0:46:19That's not good
0:46:21What I see is the slope going down down down down down that does not tell me that I as a developer should invest in
0:46:28This platform what about content makers? What about Netflix? What about YouTube? They're seeing the same graphs?
0:46:34I'm sure of whatever data they have showing how many of their of their potential customers might be using this thing and
0:46:39Those graphs are also probably going down
0:46:42At from from a pretty low number to begin with and so if you follow this out what's going to happen?
0:46:47What how is this gonna look six months from now? How's it gonna look a year from now if
0:46:51Nothing changes
0:46:53Significantly, it's going to look very bad
0:46:56It's going to be you know just a continuation of this downward slope with almost no one left using it
0:47:01Something has to change in order to make that go up
0:47:05And it's not gonna come from the outside because the outside parties have no reason to do it
0:47:09So it has to come from Apple Apple has to be the one to make that change
0:47:13Another potentially helpful analogy is Apple TV for longtime Apple fans
0:47:17Remember what the Apple TV was when it was introduced as I TV
0:47:21It was a Mac running a modified version of tiger a Mac OS 10 10.4
0:47:26And had a hard drive and it was very different from what you see today, but it was essentially
0:47:32similar product similar job an Apple connected thing that you you know you connect to your television and it helps you watch TV and
0:47:39It took a while for that platform
0:47:42To find whatever legs it has there was a long time where Apple itself would refer to it as a hobby
0:47:47Project to sort of undercut it and damp tamp down expectations that is not how the vision pro is launched to say the least as a hobby
0:47:54Product right, but that did kind of give it you know they had to figure out like what should this be a Mac
0:47:59Should it run Mac OS 10 should it have a hard drive like what is the right role for this product?
0:48:05You know kind of like the home pod. You know. What is the right shape of this product?
0:48:08Are we are we barking up the wrong tree?
0:48:10and the change from the original Apple TV slash ITV to the current one is
0:48:16Big but it shows that if the company is patient and is willing to plug away at it
0:48:21Yeah, the Apple TV took how many years to be see any kind of success to even be good
0:48:27But Apple didn't give up on it. They just rethought regroup tried a couple times made a couple really bad remotes
0:48:33It still has a lot of problems, but it is better than it was
0:48:36If you don't give up, and you're willing to keep putting money into it, and you do actually do
0:48:42Occasional updates you can make progress, but again Apple TV as a platform. I think is not where Apple wants
0:48:50Vision Pro to be as a platform and Apple TV was not launched with the same fanfare as vision Pro
0:48:55so there is definitely a mismatch between
0:48:57What Apple is saying about the vision Pro and how much it costs and how they launched it and the actual?
0:49:03The reality the product is a lot more like that original Apple TV or the big home pod
0:49:08But the launch is like it's the iPhone and it's not
0:49:12Alright, it is time for the 2018 to 2022
0:49:17iPad Pro exit interview, and I don't know Marco. This is kind of your baby. Do you have any opening statement?
0:49:24Do you want to start do you want to yeah? Yeah, so whenever whenever we think that a new?
0:49:30Product or read more recently OS version is about to be unveiled like we'll do one right before the BBC for iOS 17 etc
0:49:38I started doing this a few years ago on this show here doing these exit interviews
0:49:42Because of course I have lots of experience with corporate America
0:49:46And and managing people and so I know how to conduct such things obviously
0:49:51The iPad Pro is probably about to be replaced before or right on our next show the current iPad Pro
0:49:59Technically came out in 2022
0:50:01But it really has not changed much
0:50:05Since 2018 that was a major revision the 2018
0:50:09That was when the 11-inch was released when they got the flat side the magnetic pencil face ID
0:50:14That was a major revision. It was a great revision
0:50:18There are some you know I've had some nitpicks with it over time
0:50:21But overall I think it's really been a fantastic product and kind of going into the what is most likely to be the update I think
0:50:28My opinions of the outgoing one
0:50:31Frame what I want out of the update and what I hope Apple has has addressed with it
0:50:37Even when I very first got the other iPad Pro in 2018
0:50:41Number one thing I wanted was move the face ID sensor to either the corner or the long edge
0:50:49So that way you can use it in landscape mode
0:50:52Which is how I almost always use it usually with a keyboard and not have your hand cover the face ID sensor
0:50:57And when you pick it up something like that is rumored
0:50:59It has been rumored for a while one of the more recent iPad base models actually did that they actually moved the face ID camera
0:51:06To the top I would love to see like some
0:51:09Basic improvements just like things we've learned along the way and for me the major theme for things we've learned along the way since
0:51:152018 is I think way more people now than back then
0:51:19Really use the iPad configured physically like a laptop
0:51:24There is some kind of keyboard whether it's one of Apple's many options for keyboards for the iPad
0:51:30Or whether it's a third-party keyboard case, whatever. I really never use an iPad regularly
0:51:37Until the Apple keyboard covers because they were just so good
0:51:40But the iPad it was never seemingly designed to be used in landscape orientation
0:51:46And you know it does it but like again like the face ID and the camera were in the wrong spot for it
0:51:51Though you know the volume buttons and everything like everything on it is clearly in the wrong spot
0:51:55When you turn it on its side for landscape orientation
0:51:58So I would like to see an iPad Pro. You know whatever they choose to do with the other ones whatever
0:52:04That's up to them
0:52:05But the iPad Pro I think is maybe more likely than the others to be used with a keyboard
0:52:11The Apple pencil or both I would like to see the new iPad Pro
0:52:16Be actually designed
0:52:20To be better used with
0:52:22Optionally a keyboard and pencil I want the keyboard
0:52:26To be able to physically attach in a better way than just having a giant
0:52:32face full of magnets that forms an entire back cover that sticks to the back of it and
0:52:38It turns out we have better ways
0:52:41They're called
0:52:43holes I
0:52:45Want the iPad Pro to add
0:52:49holes or slot or
0:52:51Some kind of physical like clip kind of thing something that the keyboard can clip into
0:52:58So that way a keyboard could literally just be
0:53:02the flat bottom part of what we see now is the keyboard cases and
0:53:06Not have a back case and this can be accomplished in a very nice
0:53:12Graceful way if Apple chooses to do it
0:53:14I'm not talking about like massive like you know a big slot like a Palm Pilot although
0:53:19That would be nice for the pencil, but we'll get that in a second
0:53:21But like I'm not talking about like some kind of giant slot that runs the whole into the thing this could be like
0:53:27You know like the like roughly the size of
0:53:30The millimeter wave window on an iPhone on the side of the iPhones the recent ones a little oval
0:53:35Inset into it with some latch mechanism inside that a keyboard could be designed to latch into
0:53:43That's what I want
0:53:45Attaching things with magnets is great. It is great when you have no other options when it is the best option
0:53:50It isn't always the best option. It is especially not always the best option with the Apple pencil, and this is like that now I guess
0:53:57The Apple pencil always falls off the iPad Pro when you to point you bring it in and out of any bag ever the pencil will
0:54:04fall off
0:54:05Many pencils have been lost or have fallen into bags or airline seat gaps or whatever from this reason. I would love to see
0:54:13Some consideration for the physical form of the iPad Pro to better attach physically
0:54:20pencils and keyboards I
0:54:22Don't think this is going to happen frankly
0:54:25I think this is even less likely than the m4 rumor like I think this is very very unlikely to be the design
0:54:30But that's what ultimately I want and again
0:54:34It could just be as simple as like you know a couple of like oval
0:54:37Cutouts that something could could poke into with strong metal and maybe have like a little expanding latch part that expands out and latches it
0:54:44in or something like that like it could be that simple and
0:54:47what that would allow is
0:54:49first of all way more graceful attachment of
0:54:52keyboards way more secure attachment of pencils and
0:54:58The keyboard could then be like half the weight it could be way smaller way lighter way
0:55:06mechanically simpler which maybe could allow them to lower the obscene prices of those smart keyboards and
0:55:11Then the resulting package would be much more
0:55:15Size and weight competitive with similarly sized laptops because right now. It's really not it gets pretty bulky
0:55:21I would love so much them to fix this problem. Just put some kind of physical
0:55:26Notch or something into the iPad body
0:55:30You know I feel like the the Johnny Ive school of design is
0:55:36Let's make everything a smooth featureless blob
0:55:39That you know we can show it floating in space in a white room in a product video
0:55:44And it just looks like a perfect uninterrupted form that is not super compatible with many realities
0:55:52in reality then we have to like wrap things around it or
0:55:57Bolt things to it with magnets or have cables coming out in weird ways like that's the reality
0:56:03I would love for the products to be more designed to accommodate the reality of
0:56:08What they actually need how they're actually used that way the way most people actually end up using them can be more graceful and can
0:56:15Work better, so that's what I want. I don't think I'm going to get it, but I want that more than I want any other
0:56:22Predicted feature like that's more important to me than
0:56:25The M4 or the M3 or AI it's more important to me than OLED screens even sorry John like
0:56:33That's what I really want is for them to finally make the iPad Pro
0:56:37designed to accommodate
0:56:40Actually using it more like a laptop, and it won't happen probably well. You just want a touchscreen laptop running iPad OS
0:56:48Yes, you just cut to the chase. No, but it's convertible. It would still be convertible in fact
0:56:52More easily you just pop it right out. Yeah, so I mean the the the holes idea is interesting
0:56:59But I don't think actually solves the main problem which is the weight distribution because all of the computing guts are in the quote-unquote
0:57:04Screen part you can't actually just do a laptop style hinge
0:57:06So you still have to have like cantilevered out area in the back which makes it clumsy
0:57:10I mean I know what you're saying about like instead of having the maggots in the back have an attachment point that saves you some
0:57:15Weight there, but most people want to protect their pack of their iPads anyway
0:57:18So I don't know I think it had to really sketch this out to try to come up with something that actually is both lighter
0:57:23weight and
0:57:24Sturdier with the addition of holes, but it's it's a tough sell, and I don't think they're gonna go in that direction
0:57:29but the
0:57:32For just my brief thing in the exit interview for the current one
0:57:35I think that it was a really important design and in the evolution of the iPad in particular the
0:57:42Flat-sided pencil that sticks to it even though yes
0:57:44It does come off it is better than the previous pencil which didn't stick to it at all way better
0:57:49So it was a big important step
0:57:51And I think basically it only stayed around for like one generation too long right like this last time when it didn't get revised
0:57:57And just got new guts on the inside and when the the iPad 10th gen or whatever got the landscape camera and everything
0:58:03It was so clearly it was like ooh
0:58:05Yeah, this year. It's kind of a shame the iPad Pro, but that's just one year right there still
0:58:10And they still updated they still did update the guts
0:58:12I think this revision is not going to be as radical as you want to be
0:58:17But I think it is gonna have some things for you
0:58:19I think we can Casey do you have any iPad iPad Pro exit interview stuff before we dive into the announcement?
0:58:23Oh a little bit. You know I had bought a 2018 iPad Pro loved it
0:58:30That's now been pushed down the hierarchy to be the kids iPad
0:58:35predominantly Michaela at this point, but you know deco when we use it from time to time and I had bought the
0:58:412022 the whatever the m21 was 2022 right m2 iPad Pro to replace it both 11 inches and
0:58:48I love that one and I
0:58:50Absolutely adore that as an around the house computer as in in the car as a passenger computer things of that nature
0:58:58You know one thing that the iPad has up on the Mac and at the rate
0:59:03We're going will always have up on the Mac is Marco
0:59:06cellular
0:59:08Mm-hmm. I was gonna say windshield shattering. Yes, that's true. Let me remind you Apple
0:59:13I will pay you infinite dollars to give me a cellular Mac
0:59:18Please but the love of God I will give you all of my money, but anyway
0:59:21No, I I really like
0:59:24My iPad in very limited
0:59:27Use cases, but those use cases it is freaking perfect for it
0:59:31I I don't particularly disagree with anything Marco is saying with regard to like cases and things like that
0:59:37I use the cantilevered. What is it magic keyboard is that right? I always get them backwards
0:59:41Yeah
0:59:41The magic is the more expensive cantilevered one the smart keyboard cover is the one that I use and Craig Federighi uses
0:59:49That is just it's it used to be the only one
0:59:52It was like there's no trackpad and it's it's like a little bit shorter up front
0:59:55Yeah
0:59:56and so I I do have one of those that's what's on Michaela's iPad and I use that until the
1:00:00cantilevered one the magic one came out and I
1:00:03Do think and I think you had said this Marco
1:00:06I started using iPad way more when I had a real keyboard on it because then
1:00:11To me anyway, it it becomes completely
1:00:14hamstrung for creation purposes to
1:00:17occasionally annoying which is a big improvement actually and
1:00:20And so anyway, so I really like both of the iPads that are in the house
1:00:25the biggest issue I would say I have with the
1:00:272022 iPad is that it's not really that much better than the 2018 like it's noticeably better but not night and day better even though
1:00:34You know four years had elapsed and I think the only thing that I see now we're leaving the exit interview part
1:00:40Sorry, John, but the only thing I really seek from a new one. Well, first of all, I don't sitting here now
1:00:44I don't plan to buy one remind me of this in a week
1:00:46but the only thing I really seek is I would love to have the FaceTime the front facing camera on the
1:00:53Longer edge but like the pencil yet falls off all the time, but at least it can connect that doesn't really bother me
1:00:59The cantilever keyboard is heavy, but it's you know, I love that thing. I think it's worth it's worth
1:01:05It's worth the weight. It's worth the cost
1:01:08Although I will say
1:01:10Mine is not aging super gracefully
1:01:12I feel like we just talked about this a few weeks back
1:01:14But the corner one of the corners of mine is looking real gross and like the the outer shell like the kind of rubbery outer
1:01:20Shell is falling away
1:01:22There's definitely some other spots that have like nicks and whatnot that it's not aged
1:01:27Extraordinary extraordinarily gracefully, so maybe a little bit better keyboard. Oh and actually come to think of it
1:01:33You know and now that I'm wish casting bigger trackpad, which is a common refrain, you know
1:01:38I think Jason and Mike talked about this the connected boys talked about this bigger trackpad and for the love of all that
1:01:43It's good and holy and escape key and function row, please and thank you
1:01:46I would love that on a future keyboard but in the grand scheme of things the hardware itself like it's fine
1:01:52It's quick. It's got cellular, you know, I don't have any strong needs for the
1:01:58For the Apple pencil. I do have one and when I use it, I really really like it, but I'm not an artist
1:02:06I use it more for like, you know annotating things than anything else. So I don't know
1:02:10I don't even know what I'm seeking right now
1:02:12This is one of those moments where Apple needs to tell me what it is
1:02:14I have missed all of my life because I don't know what it is right now
1:02:17I mean what we're not talking about which is we have no reason to talk about it until they've ever see is the OS which
1:02:23As we always say is the main thing that's holding back, but we're not getting a new OS for the iPad on May 7th
1:02:28That'll wait to WDC. So we have to set that aside
1:02:31We're just talking about the hardware but honestly part of the one big part of the the problem with the iPad
1:02:37Is that the OS has never lived up to the hardware. The hardware is essentially laptop
1:02:41It's it's an Apple laptop without the keyboard running a slightly different OS
1:02:44But the OS does not allow that power to be exploited and it's a shame but you know
1:02:50That's not that's not going to change on May 7th
1:02:52So they but the event the event didn't come out and say this is an iPad event
1:02:57But it did have what it have it had had a bunch of different images. I got the one that had someone holding an Apple pencil
1:03:04Yeah, which might be the first time that Apple literally put the product they're gonna announce in the image
1:03:09Because it's so clearly an Apple pencil. It's not it's not like a regular pencil. It's an Apple pencil
1:03:14But there was apparently six possible images that you can get and they're all kind of abstract
1:03:19Look like they were drawn with the pencil or whatever and then Tim Cook
1:03:21tweeted pencil us in for May 7th and then did a little pencil emoji and
1:03:27Gone are the days of subtlety
1:03:29You know, it's like the a the AI announcement for WDC
1:03:33But anyway, you would think that they're gonna have an event on May 7th where they're gonna announce an Apple pencil and that's it
1:03:37I think there will be other things but just fyi is gonna be a new Apple pencil
1:03:42So that's great. But the actual iPad as I said earlier in the year, I think is the hardware product
1:03:49I'm most excited for this year
1:03:51Because I'm definitely gonna get one that the rumors are true and it has an OLED screen because I use my iPad as
1:03:57a little tiny television
1:03:59And OLED is better for TVs the black levels on the current 11 inch iPad Pro are very bad
1:04:06And OLED won't have that problem. And so I'm excited for it and honestly from a hardware perspective
1:04:11It's basically a big screen
1:04:13So any improvement to the screen is significant and from what the rumors say
1:04:18This is a very significant upgrade to the screen so significant that I think this will be the best screen that Apple sells
1:04:26period
1:04:28The vision Pro is having some thoughts, right?
1:04:30So there's the question of whether those are screens, but I guess but even within that realm I think this one will have
1:04:36Better color reproduction and brightness than the vision Pro once it maybe not as high resolution
1:04:42But better color reproduction and brightness and also you don't to strap it to your head
1:04:45All right, but just for traditional screen setting aside things that are inside goggles for traditional screens this
1:04:51I think this is gonna be everything that they sell if the rumors are true. It's supposedly a
1:04:54Dual-stacked OLED. So the problem with OLED says you can't make them too bright over there
1:04:59They wear themselves out and use a lot of power
1:05:01So instead they take two OLEDs and put them on top of each other and run each one. It's slightly lower power
1:05:06So each individual OLED doesn't wear itself out as fast but the total light throughput you get is I don't know if it's double
1:05:12But it's more right
1:05:14So that is fascinating and if it is a really good screen as the rumors suggest
1:05:19I'm gonna love it because this is my little miniature TV
1:05:21So I know that's not exciting to most people except for maybe color reproduction for people who are trying to do like professional
1:05:29photo or video work on it or whatever and although good luck with that but
1:05:32but but for this particular case and honestly, I think this is a
1:05:38common use case people watching video on their iPads
1:05:43Whether or not they have a keyboard attached
1:05:45I think that's that's probably more narrow interest for people who want to use it for productivity
1:05:49But people watching video is common and that's another
1:05:53Reason that the landscape camera is important because people are watching video. I would imagine mostly in landscape
1:05:59I don't think people are blowing up the tick-tock app to 2x and watching everything vertically on it
1:06:03So the landscape camera helps with the people use it as a mini TV. I cover that stupid camera with my hand all the time
1:06:09It's annoying
1:06:10And the screen it's basically a big screen and it'll be an amazing screen and then the other thing about the guts
1:06:16Which is fascinating but less so
1:06:18For what it says about the iPad and more so for what it says about all their other products is the m4 rumor
1:06:23You would think this is gonna be an iPad Pro with an m3 in it
1:06:26That would make perfect sense
1:06:29The MacBook Air just came out the m3 and who's been out for a while put it an iPad sure
1:06:33But the rumor is oh, but it might be an m4 and it's like, okay
1:06:36Well, maybe I will see but that rumor has heated up recently with actual evidence
1:06:42There's two sets of evidence. I've meant to grab this one from a screenshot. One of them was the
1:06:46Was it the part number for the the CPU and Apple has these weird internal part numbers like the m2 was?
1:06:55T8 1 1 2 and the m3 was t8 1 2 2 so that the third
1:07:02Number or the fourth digit fourth character is changing. So t8 1 1
1:07:07t 8 1 2 you would expect that the that the m3 is t8 1 2 2
1:07:13But the rumor the people trying to find like things in the OS or whatever says that this new upcoming iPad is t8 1 3
1:07:22Hmm. I know it's confusing because one is the m2 and two is the m3 that's made on the a16 process for
1:07:3011 inch iPad for my iPad OS 17 the part number if they follow this if they follow the same pattern the part number says
1:07:37It's an m4 and the other thing is that the like the product number this sort of internal product numbers that Apple has for its devices
1:07:43And it's like always like a name of a product than number comma another number
1:07:48and
1:07:49the rumored part numbers again pulled out of iPad OS 7.5 beta is
1:07:55iPad 16 comma 3 16 comma 4 16 comma 5 and 16 comma 6 right? So the iPad air 5
1:08:02Was and the iPad proven 2020 were labeled iPad 13 comma something and they have the m1 and all the iPads that have the m2
1:08:10Or labeled iPad 14. So m1 is 13 m2 is 14 and 3 would be 15
1:08:16Oh, so they skipped one, but this is iPad 16
1:08:20so they're skipping iPad 15 which would have been the m3 model and that leads more evidence to this being the m4 so
1:08:27all of the internal software dredged out part numbers and
1:08:32product numbers
1:08:34Lead to the conclusion that the iPad Pro have an m4 in it and not an m3
1:08:39I find this so hard to believe and if it wasn't for this like 16 comma, whatever whatever
1:08:44I think I would say absolutely not but this whole part number thing or
1:08:49Model number thing is really giving me pause and the part number thing because the part numbers even more obscure those like t8
1:08:56Whatever like that's super obscure like what there'd be no reason to like fake that or skip a number and that that's really even farther
1:09:03You know to dig that out
1:09:04But yeah, it's consistent
1:09:06they they skipped over the m3 thing and this looks like it's gonna have an m4 and I find it perfectly plausible because
1:09:13We know that every m
1:09:163 whatever chip that Apple has made has been on the m3b process, which is super expensive and
1:09:22essentially Apple exclusive and
1:09:25Apple kind of had to do it if they wanted to get their products out the door, right?
1:09:28But they don't want to stick with it for any longer than they have to and so if TSMC can
1:09:34Make m4s in time to be in the iPad Pro
1:09:38You bet Apple would love to not have to pay to make another super expensive and 3b based products
1:09:46And I think it is plausible that you can announce something on May 7th with an m14 in it
1:09:52I'm not sure when it will ship but you know
1:09:54TSMC doesn't always publicly say when they're doing all you know, so I I think it is plausible
1:10:00I think it's plausible based on the part numbers things plausible based on the timing, but it's super interesting because
1:10:05That would mean that the m4 all the rumors about the m4 lineup and how like by the end of next year every single Mac
1:10:12Will be on on something on the m4
1:10:15That gets a lot more
1:10:17Likely to happen if they're starting with the m4s in May right not even
1:10:21WWDC and then what that means also is that for WWDC if they release an m4 iPad?
1:10:26I don't care about the m4 right who cares like I think the iPad is plenty, you know
1:10:29I don't care about it in in the iPad right, but what that means is come
1:10:33WWDC if they announce any Mac hardware
1:10:36Doesn't that also have to have the m4 or maybe not maybe they just announced the m3 ultra like I just
1:10:44There's overlap in these numbers is killing me
1:10:46Get on schedule and just make the number go up by one every once in a while, but I
1:10:52Will I will be unrealistically?
1:10:55Expecting m4 based max at WWDC if they release an m4 based iPad Pro
1:11:00But I think the m4 based iPad Pro is plausible and so now honestly now I expect it
1:11:05Gurman's traffic records been pretty good about the concert recently and he's pretty sure about it from his sourcing
1:11:10so like it's looking like this is a real possibility and and you know to some degree like we don't we don't know how
1:11:18Big of an update the m4 is compared to the m3 like, you know, John mentioned like there is this this process
1:11:24Switch thing, you know with you know, n3b
1:11:27But as we discussed was kind of a dead end with TSMC's processing
1:11:32It was very this very expensive process and that's what the m3 and all of last fall's phone chips were made on
1:11:39Probably like if I had to guess if the m4 is ready this soon after the m3
1:11:44My guess is the m4 was largely a change to get off that process and to be on the new
1:11:52You know and three whatever the what's the new one n3p and m3e and but and keep in mind m3e is essentially
1:11:59It's worse in terms of the product you get but it's better in terms of yield and cost
1:12:03So m3b is like the super expensive, but it actually is slightly better
1:12:09But like no one wants to pay for it and the yields are terrible, right?
1:12:11So Apple wants to get off that everyone wants to get off it as soon as possible, but not because n3e is
1:12:16Fantastically better like it is the same or even potentially slightly worse
1:12:20But cheaper better yields and so that makes us and and I think the m4
1:12:25m4 advances over the m3
1:12:28I assume like whatever they do with the neural engine or if they rebranded or whatever AI mumbo jumbo like that could
1:12:33Possibly be in there
1:12:35But I mean, I don't think it's just a warmed over m3 because the the thing about n3e is it's not
1:12:41Whatever the term is it's not compatible with the designs they did for n3b. So you have to essentially relay out the chip
1:12:47So I think it will be
1:12:49More of its own device than we might imagine because it's not like they can just take the exact layout of the m3 and stamp
1:12:55It in m3e they can't do that. That's the whole deal with m3b, right?
1:12:59So what that if if this is if the the last this is the start of the m4s and there are no more m3s
1:13:05It would mean the m3s were like we had to get something out the door
1:13:08We use the most expensive process that no one else wanted to pay for and we did a whole bunch of chips all at once
1:13:12And we got off it as fast as we can
1:13:14But if on the other hand W3C comes and they've introduced an m4 iPad Pro and they say and now here's the new
1:13:20M3 ultra max studio. I'm like, what are you doing Apple?
1:13:26But like an m3b how expensive would an n3b based
1:13:30m3 ultra chip be and
1:13:33I mean, it'll be faster than a plain m4. That's for sure, but it's just it's so weird
1:13:38so I just it and it's so strange to be launching this in the iPad because who has an iPad who's like
1:13:44Boy, this needs an m4
1:13:47Like no one is thinking that they're thinking it needs a better OS and needs a better keyboard to Marco's point
1:13:52Maybe they want more pencil features, which we'll get to in a little bit. Well
1:13:55I have some theories if you look at the rumors overall between last fall and now
1:14:02about things like the process node switch how n3b is so expensive owns kind of a dead end I'm
1:14:09guessing and and we were seeing this all last fall as
1:14:12You were saying Apple wants to get off of that process quickly that the m3 and the a whatever we're on for the phones that
1:14:19This like there's a reason why this year only the pro phones got the got the new a chip with the three nanometer process
1:14:27On n3b and the other phones didn't and then keep in mind
1:14:30We've already for months heard the rumors that this coming falls iPhones are both going to get a new chip
1:14:37So it's not going to continue that lag of like, you know, the the cheaper phone has has last year's chip
1:14:43That's been the rumor for months that that's not happening this year
1:14:46Which means that the iPhone chips that were made this past fall are
1:14:50one-offs because Apple does not keep making the pro phones for the next year, so
1:14:56The whatever a were on now is a one-off chip
1:14:59It seems it's not going to go to next year's cheaper phone when Apple's house making the iPhone 15 pros this September
1:15:05That chip is gone. It's not in anything else. That's one of the chips out of the way then we have the m3 generation
1:15:12Well, it sure looks like we've heard rumors so far and it sure looks like just based on timing
1:15:16That there might not be an m3 based Mac studio it this fall
1:15:19What's gonna be left with the n3b process chips, which are the m3 m3 pro m3 max and a whatever is on the phone?
1:15:27it's just I think just gonna be then the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro and
1:15:33Those both get updated pretty much every year to every chip that comes out for them on the iMac the iMac
1:15:39I'm any iMac. Oh, yeah, that's okay. That's that's interesting
1:15:42but anyway, so the iPad pro gets updated less frequently and so maybe what they're looking to do here is
1:15:49Jump the iPad pro forward first because then they can keep making that for the next two years
1:15:55Not touch it and not have any chips left on the on the expensive m3b process
1:16:01So my guess is they were okay using m3b
1:16:05For the really important high-end products that need a 3 nanometer to get ahead stay competitive
1:16:11And that's the iPhone pro the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air
1:16:15but then they're gonna move off of that as quickly as they can and
1:16:19The products that have longer refresh cycles or are kind of less important like the Mac mini the Mac studio
1:16:26And the iPad pro
1:16:28Maybe they don't get it and the iMac unfortunately the iMac is the one weird one
1:16:32That's but but you know, maybe they'll just update that, you know with the output the MacBook Air
1:16:36Yeah, they skipped with the iMac. So it was it was overdue
1:16:39I think the iMac will move to m4 quickly. Like I don't think the m3 iMac is gonna be around for four years
1:16:45I think they're gonna move that to them for as quick, you know quicker than we think but we'll see
1:16:48yeah, and so and based on that like if we go with the theory that the m4 is
1:16:53Something that Apple is trying to get out there as quickly as possible to minimize the amount of time
1:16:58They need to keep making n3b chip products
1:17:00Then it does make sense to put it in the iPad Pro now
1:17:03I would also then simultaneously not have
1:17:06Massive expectations for the m4 over the m3 because m3 is was the m3 was already a big jump
1:17:11Over the m2 and it's only been out for like two seconds everything
1:17:16We're hearing about like the m4 having a significant focus on AI. I'm
1:17:19Guessing that's probably gonna be mostly a marketing focus, which is fine
1:17:24Like Apple should be leading into this everyone else is and they look like they're behind
1:17:27So they should be leading into AI as a marketing thing their chips already are good at many AI related tasks
1:17:34They're already good at running inference. They're already good at training. They already have good GPUs good neural engines
1:17:39You know lots of fast memories like they're already good at all that stuff
1:17:42So for them to say the m4 is great for AI like yeah
1:17:46That's because all of their chips are pretty good for that relative to other consumer product chips
1:17:50So they can still say all that while the m4 doesn't necessarily need to be a major jump forward
1:17:57So I think we're gonna see
1:17:59Everything move to the m4 as quickly as possible possibly even all in this calendar year. We'll see
1:18:04Well, the problem is the rumors for like the good beefy m4 chips for like the studio and Mac Pro are like well out into
1:18:12Next year and so that really puts cold water on my idea that there's gonna be a Mac studio announcement at WWDC with the m4 in it
1:18:18Yeah, but I mean obviously I mean Apple Apple wants it
1:18:23It's not a question of like deciding to do this
1:18:25So they beat they need they need the m4 to be available if the m4 wasn't available. They wouldn't do this
1:18:29But if it is available, yes, they're jumping on it ASAP
1:18:32That's why I think it also update the iMac because as soon as the m4 is available with a reasonable upgrade cycle
1:18:37They're gonna like we got to get to your point get everything off of n3b any products. We sell within three bees in them
1:18:42They're not gonna get any cheaper. No one else is using that process
1:18:45TSMC is probably gonna stop making it as soon as we're done buying it from them
1:18:49So let's let's get off of it. And so any product that was on it. We need to get it off
1:18:53Within you know within the next calendar year, right and this being the first product is like well
1:18:58We're making a new iPad and this is available
1:19:00So by all means let's not put the m3 in it and yeah
1:19:03Then it gives them more runway to let this I'm gonna say let's languish but not it's not gonna languish like again
1:19:07The computing power is not the thing that is holding this back and this will be presumably the new design
1:19:12With the new pencil and the new camera orientation and no holes in the bottom. Sorry Marco, although I
1:19:20Guess we'll do the the pencil next the rumor of this pencil is it's the Apple pencil 3
1:19:24The Apple did just come up with a new pencil
1:19:26But that one wasn't like the good pencil the top end one the most expensive pencil
1:19:31This is the new most expensive pencil and how can you tell a it'll be more expensive and be it has new features
1:19:37And the rumored features are a squeeze function because yeah sure like I mean you can you could do also do a button Apple
1:19:44but it's so unseemly so a squeeze function and
1:19:48Haptic feedback in the pencil of some kind maybe that's just in response to your squeeze
1:19:52maybe it'll be like a rumble feature to make it feel like textured paper or something who knows but
1:19:57The pencil continues to get increasingly fancy. I think the rumors are that it will still be flat sided
1:20:03It will still attach magnetically. It'll be a little bit shorter than the old one
1:20:07Maybe to fit in wherever they're gonna slap it on maybe it'll go on the short side this time as
1:20:10More of a landscape, you know landscape oriented iPad type thing where the cameras on the top and the pencils on the side
1:20:17You know, that's that's a reasonable and then the year one hope this year Marco is the rumors of a more quote
1:20:24laptop like
1:20:26Aluminum magic keyboard and trackpad. I don't think it's going to attach with holes
1:20:31But I think it will be well to help Casey and his poor worn out
1:20:35You know, I'll tell everybody with their poor worn out iPad keyboards that are made of whatever
1:20:40Fabric or rubbery membrane or whatever if you make the thing out of aluminum and plastic just like the laptops
1:20:46It will wear like the laptops do which is better than these iPad things
1:20:50Bigger trackpad maybe a glass trackpad. It's made aluminum. It can be more structurally sturdy
1:20:56They still have the problem of most of the weight being in the screen part sort of being the inverse of a laptop where laptops
1:21:03The screen is light and the base is heavy and that works out for a you know, a simple rear hinge
1:21:07They don't have that on the iPad. So they got to do some sort of cantilevering thing. But for people who do want a
1:21:13More laptop like experience out of their iPad the rumors are that Apple is going to deliver that
1:21:18Yeah, I so first of all just back to the pencil for a second
1:21:22The double tap gesture to like change tools or go to the eraser on the pencil
1:21:27Has always been a little finicky and a little bit like it's easy to accidentally trigger it. Excuse me. Excuse me
1:21:33That is not fair. It is so frustratingly difficult to get right really. I've always found it like triggers accidentally
1:21:40Well, yeah, it's either you're do well, that's the thing. You're either doing it when you don't want to or
1:21:44Completely freaking unable to do it when you do want to right so very frustrating
1:21:49So like I assume that that double tap gesture will be replaced by whatever form this like haptic squeeze
1:21:56Possible button thing is and if so, that's great because that needs that needs to be rethought
1:22:02I'm hoping to see that you think it'll replace it or be an addition to it. Oh, that's a good question
1:22:07I hope it replaces it directly because I think that would be better. I mean you replaced it in the air pods
1:22:12There's that precedent right there pods used to be tapping now their squeeze. Yes, but the air pods don't have haptic feedback
1:22:18They play a click sound so like they give you feedback, but it's audio feedback. Not not like vibration feedback
1:22:24So we'll see how you you know, what is audio but vibrations?
1:22:27You know if you look like there were rumors last fall about the iPhones getting basically like non moving buttons
1:22:36That would that would provide haptic feedback so they would feel like buttons, but they wouldn't actually be moving
1:22:40Maybe they are using whatever tech that was that didn't make it into last year's iPhones. Maybe that's what this is in the pencil
1:22:47that's not like I
1:22:49I've been much more skeptical about that stuff in the past. I
1:22:52Think Apple has shown over time that when they actually try to make a haptic button
1:22:58That is supposed to behave and feel like a button. They usually do a pretty good job
1:23:03You know you had like the the haptic home screen, but or the home buttons on the iPhone 7 and forward and you know
1:23:09Those actually felt pretty good. They felt like buttons, you know the trackpad
1:23:12Yeah
1:23:12The clicking trackpad like they when they actually attempt to make something look and feel and work like a button
1:23:18They usually do a good job of it recently. So if that's what they're doing. I
1:23:22Have high hopes that it will probably be decent
1:23:25And so my my major pencil question marks are basically
1:23:31How the heck it will attach and charge and where it will attach and charge to the to the iPad and battery life
1:23:37Um, honestly, I think the battery life is pretty good
1:23:39Right, but now they're gonna put a motor in there like a little the little in whatever it is. They though taptic engine
1:23:45That's fair
1:23:46I mean
1:23:47It's it would probably be pretty tiny and you're not like you're not basically feeling it constantly like it would only be anyway
1:23:52I wouldn't worry too much about that. My main concern is
1:23:55Where does it go on the iPad? How does it attach?
1:23:58How does it charge and do they give it some kind of you know, nice button feel or button effect for that?
1:24:04That would be great. I
1:24:06Thought about Casey I thought about whether they would put it on the short side
1:24:09I don't know like you got to figure out like where the speaker is going
1:24:13Yeah, it is supposed to be shorter though regardless of which side it's on
1:24:16The rumor is that it is slightly shorter than the Apple pencil - yeah
1:24:19So we'll see and somebody I forget where I saw this somewhere on mastodon
1:24:24I think somebody was saying like wouldn't it be great if this also worked with future iPhones and
1:24:30Yeah, that was small. That would be amazing it but yeah, it probably it would not be smaller to it to magnetically attached to an iPhone
1:24:37but I
1:24:39Honestly, I would love something like that for iPhones, but the the problem also with that is that
1:24:44If you've noticed recent iPads that are compatible with the pencil get really fingerprint you way more than your phone
1:24:52And the reason why is because the phone's oleophobic coating apparently gets worn away if you would use it on the iPad for the pencil
1:24:59So when iPads became pencil compatible
1:25:02They actually had to switch to a worse oleophobic coating on the glass and that's why I've had modern iPads get so so incredibly
1:25:08fingerprinting so easily, but anyway, so back to the iPad
1:25:11Those are my wishes for the pencil. I would love for it to have some kind of physical attachment mechanism
1:25:16It was not just magnets that actually would stay there, but I'm not super confident in that
1:25:22So in the absence of that, yeah, give me a give me a happy button. Sure
1:25:26Third-party opportunity. There's lots of cases with little loops and latches and pockets and things for you to stick your pencil in
1:25:32That's that's the seems to be Apple solution to this problem is it attaches with a magnet if you don't jostle it too much if
1:25:38You want to travel with it buy one of those cases where you can stick it in a little holster
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1:27:03[Music]
1:27:07Let's do some Ask ATP
1:27:09Charlie Sorrell writes years and years ago when Marco was still child free Casey told Marco that once he became a dad
1:27:14He'd give up making fancy coffee. I think was Aeropress at the time. That was a while ago now, obviously what actually happened?
1:27:20You know, I 100% believe I did this because this is huge Casey energy
1:27:24But damned if I remember having this conversation. Shocking that you don't remember something that happened years ago on the show. Exactly exactly
1:27:30So what's the story there Marco? So it turns out
1:27:34You were kind of right. Oh, I'm actually very surprised by this to be honest
1:27:40So I no longer roast my own beans. I never ended up roasting at the beach
1:27:46It was not a great setting for it
1:27:48like you know that when you roast was a whole bunch of like smoke and stuff you have to deal with and
1:27:51And the beach setup was just really not a good environment for that and what happened in in those years
1:27:57Like when I when I moved to the beach and you know early COVID time
1:28:00Mail-order coffee was already really good by that point. I had these wonderful mail-order options
1:28:06What also happened around that same time was my taste in coffee shifted towards more medium and light roasts
1:28:15Medium and light roasts are more difficult to do especially on a home roaster
1:28:20My roasting skills were really not up for making that style of coffee
1:28:24So my home roasting kind of fell off and I stopped doing it and I just switched mail order
1:28:29And that got me through most of COVID all of COVID
1:28:32More recently. It's actually gotten a little bit worse
1:28:36because in the new house
1:28:39I'm still living in a construction zone here if there's still like, you know paper on the floors
1:28:45There's there's like coverings on the countertops. They're still doing like some painting and wall works
1:28:50There's still dust being produced here and there first of all
1:28:53There are many days where I just like can't even get into the kitchen
1:28:56Or like the sink will have a drop cloth over it because they're working above it or something
1:29:00That was that was going on today
1:29:01So what I've been doing mostly is just going to the coffee shop in town or I've often just been doing
1:29:06frozen coffee pods this company called comiteer that also they make sure they get frozen pods and
1:29:11I wish I frankly I love them. They're they're fantastic
1:29:15I wouldn't recommend it for every day because it's a little bit over the top, you know
1:29:19having these like frozen pods that you have to get shipped to you and you know that I'm you know,
1:29:23The per cup cost is way higher than bean costs and everything
1:29:26but if you don't have a
1:29:28coffee maker or an era press nearby to use if you just need to like make some coffee without
1:29:35Pretty much any equipment except maybe a hot water kettle. It's a great way to do it and
1:29:40honestly
1:29:42The coffee that I get from comiteer is better than anything I've ever home roasted. It's really good
1:29:49So anyway, so all that is to say I've completely stopped roasting my own beans, which I used to do regularly for years
1:29:55I have partially stopped even making my own coffee and brewing my own coffee at home
1:30:00because I just haven't had like a reliable kitchen set up a lot of the time for the last few months and
1:30:05So I assume I will get back into at least the brewing part more
1:30:10You know once things calm down here and I actually have a kitchen that is not full of dust that I can actually use reliably
1:30:17I expect to get back into brewing my own coffee and get it and you know remaining good at that
1:30:21but I'm actually further from it now than I've ever been and that was mostly because
1:30:27mail or mail or services got really good and
1:30:30Also comiteer kind of ruined me because it's really good too. It doesn't sound like any of his kid related though
1:30:37No, well, not really. No because like I mean really, you know, Mike my kid just turned 12
1:30:41and I was
1:30:45Roasting my own coffee until he was about eight and brewing my own coffee until he was 11
1:30:50So, you know, I I don't think it was kid related
1:30:53I think the I think it's just like old person reality aging related. Yeah. Yeah busyness related and aging related like
1:31:00You know my taste shifted towards something. I don't make very well light roasts
1:31:04And other options for that top for that taste became available that were that were really good
1:31:09Andy writes after years of trying I finally got an invitation to attend WWDC
1:31:14I hope you guys will cover the what to do or not to do at WWDC as I've been told that you've done in the
1:31:19Past even a pointer to which episodes I should listen to would be extremely helpful
1:31:22I don't feel like I can be of help at all because last time I was at WWDC was in San Jose
1:31:28So Marco tell us about this
1:31:30Yes, so so one thing to note Andy is that the WWDC experience today and for the last couple of years that it's been at
1:31:37Apple Park is very different from what it was in the past where it was like at a conference center
1:31:41And it was a whole week of in-person sessions. So what it is now is
1:31:46All the sessions are virtual. So there's really no in-person component there at all. The only in-person stuff to do now is
1:31:53There's like a big developer event that you were presumably invited to at Apple Park to watch the keynote
1:31:59So what this is is you are sitting in a lawn like an Apple Park in front of those giant sliding doors for the cafeteria
1:32:05You sit in a bunch of chairs set up like, you know a big outdoor, you know
1:32:09Concert or something Tim Cook comes out on stage says hello
1:32:12Good morning
1:32:13And then you know you watch the video basically on a giant screen and then afterwards you like
1:32:18You know go and you're led over to like the you know, some kind of various events
1:32:22There's like tours and stuff like that and then there's occasional
1:32:26Other stuff around Apple Park for that day and maybe the day after especially revolving around the Apple Visitor Center
1:32:33which is like it's kind of across the street and it has like a coffee shop and
1:32:37It's basically a big Apple store and stuff. So and then there's a handful of other community events that happen
1:32:43There's things like the live talk show that usually happen there. There's other like
1:32:47Smaller groups that are arranging things and certain developer groups and meetup kind of things happening
1:32:52So this is a very different experience than it used to be but it's still pretty fun
1:32:56It's just it's just different the big thing to keep in mind when you're going there now, there is no
1:33:03Conference Center, so, you know you're led into the event and you're you're there like, you know in Apple Park
1:33:10You're you're obviously like, you know
1:33:11Very well controlled by Apple people the whole time of like where you can go and what you're doing
1:33:14But then after that you are escorted, you know
1:33:17You have the few the handful things they then you're escorted out and you can't get back in
1:33:21like for the rest of the week, so
1:33:24Plan if you're gonna be there for like a few days try to plan stuff to do with the other
1:33:29Groups and events that happen around that because you're just like kind of let out into suburban Cupertino is like, alright
1:33:36Bye, that's it. You know, it's not like you're not in downtown San Jose anymore or down in San Francisco
1:33:41And so there's really no like town to hang out in
1:33:44It's just like Apple Park and in the visitor center and then a bunch of houses around you. So
1:33:51The hotel situation is a little a little, you know boring or challenging the like, you know dinner and evening
1:33:59Event situation is a little limited there. You're basically hanging out in the suburbs next to an office park that won't let you back in
1:34:05So plan for that with like what you expect event wise if you can get into any of the other like side events that are
1:34:11Going on do that
1:34:13You know plan for that accordingly and and I wouldn't honestly I wouldn't recommend staying
1:34:19Past, you know, like the the events on Monday. I would say you can usually safely leave on at least Wednesday
1:34:27maybe even Tuesday, you know depending on whether you whether there's certain events you want to go to but
1:34:31That's what to expect like it's a really fun presentation that day, but then you're kind of on your own so plan accordingly
1:34:38Wade asks does it bother you that you have no privacy with public electric charging stations?
1:34:44They know who you are and where you live because you're billing information what car you drive where you were when how far you drove?
1:34:50Between charges etc. Is there any practical way to have an electric car not be tracked short of only ever charging it at home?
1:34:56Do you know what the charger operators do with this information? Do they anonymize it? Do they sell it?
1:35:00I mean I hear you but I mean this is the way the world is going and I don't think bad news about credit cards
1:35:06Yeah, exactly. Like I don't see how
1:35:08how there's really any two ways around this and
1:35:13Just I'm really struggling to get myself worked up about this, especially since credit cards exist
1:35:18You know, there's so much data tracking on your phones
1:35:20Which you know, the apples doing their best to try to issue but maybe Wade pays with cash at gas stations
1:35:26Yeah, you never know. It's possible
1:35:28I mean
1:35:28so there there are a couple stories related to this which are
1:35:31More in the vein of things that are car specific because knowing where you are and what you're doing
1:35:36if you use any kind of electronic form of payment, that's sufficient, but the car stuff is like
1:35:41Knowing how you drive and so there are a couple stories. This one is from March of this year
1:35:48Automakers sharing consumers driving behavior with insurance companies that you don't want I mean, I especially do not want that I can assure you
1:35:56Yeah
1:35:57I mean like it's kind of the point of insurance like as you as you slice and dice the insured
1:36:02Population into smaller and smaller groups based on the behavior insurance stops being insurance
1:36:06The whole point of insurance is you're spreading the risk
1:36:08So you have to be in a group with there has to be variability within a group if you just put all the high risk
1:36:12drivers in one group and all low risk drivers and and like
1:36:16Slicing up like that then everyone should just pay for their own car
1:36:19Problems like there's no longer insurance. It's the whole point is you're pooling risk
1:36:23And so there is the I mean, it's not really that big of a danger
1:36:26It's insurance companies aren't gonna be that stupid but insurance companies do want to
1:36:30Adjust the risk pools to their advantage based on knowing exactly how you drive and that was a controversy in March and then
1:36:38About ten days later General Motors said that they're going to stop sharing their driving behavior with data brokers, right?
1:36:44Oh, this is for you. Yeah, this is the real frontier of privacy and cars
1:36:49It's not knowing where you go based on paying for charging electric chargers. It is the telemetry
1:36:54Gathered while you are driving and where that information goes and what control you have over that information
1:37:01And that is I feel like the more important battlefront
1:37:04The battle of like trying to find an electric charging station where you can feed $20 bills into a slot
1:37:10I think you that's not gonna happen
1:37:13But yeah, like again everywhere you go if you pay for gas with the credit card or any kind of electronic form of payment
1:37:18It's not really that much different in terms of knowing what you drive. Everybody knows what you drive. It's your vehicles registered
1:37:24Like it's not this is all publicly available or at least information that's available to the people who want to know it
1:37:29So I would fight for your right to privacy
1:37:33During yeah fight for your right to privacy while you're driving like you're the actual moment-to-moment information about your driving
1:37:41Even what your trips are where you go how long it takes you to get from point A to point B all that information
1:37:47Is being gathered by the car?
1:37:49You just want to have legally have some kind of control over it and hopefully we'll get some laws in that area
1:37:54if we can ever in this country anyway, if we can ever pass some kind of
1:37:57sweeping privacy technical electronic privacy legislation, which is
1:38:02That people have been trying to do that for a while, but things move slowly around here
1:38:06So fingers crossed and by the way, like, you know to the question of specifically like electric fast charging stations. There are
1:38:13fast charging stations out there that are not like
1:38:17Profile or login based that you can just have a credit card, you know swipe for them
1:38:22I've never seen one that takes cash, but there are playing to take credit cards
1:38:26And so there are kind of there are options there for like, you know less data tracking that you could do
1:38:30You know, maybe use a certain card for it or whatever
1:38:32And then there are also ways to charge your car that don't use DC fast chargers
1:38:38Like you can charge your car in like, you know, 220 volt RV plugs
1:38:41It just you know, you just have to leave your car overnight somewhere to charge them
1:38:45So like there are options if you aren't if you're on a road trip
1:38:47You can just go to hotels that have those 220 volt chargers and charge overnight every time like you could that is an option you have
1:38:53It this is not something I'd recommend as like your only option
1:38:57But you know, there are other options and usually those 220 volt chargers are even less sophisticated
1:39:03Sometimes it's literally just like a plug like like, you know
1:39:05It could be like one of those Tesla wall units and like there's no login for that
1:39:08There's no authentication for that or it could be like a third-party one or a CCS based one
1:39:13Like there's there's all sorts of them. But if you pay for that hotel with a credit card, they already know you there
1:39:17So that's it. Yeah, I mean like there's so many, you know, if you have like electronic tolling like, you know
1:39:21You have like an easy pass in your car
1:39:23Like that'll tell everybody everything like so there's there's lots of ways you can be tracked very very very very easily for people who actually
1:39:29Want to track you, but if you are looking to minimize it, that is something to consider for sure
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1:39:45overtime segment this episode
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1:40:04Thank you so much and we'll talk to you next week
1:40:06Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental
1:40:16Oh it was accidental
1:40:18John did any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental
1:40:26It was accidental
1:40:29And you can find the show notes at ATP
1:40:33FM and if you're into mastodon
1:40:38You can follow them at
1:40:41Cas ey el is s so that's Casey lists ma r co ar m
1:40:48anti Marco Arman
1:40:51si r AC
1:40:54USA, Syracuse
1:41:10Marco you went on a trip. How did it go? Oh my god. It was amazing. All right, so
1:41:15So I went as as discussed last episode I was gonna do I was gonna do this
1:41:19I went to Las Vegas to see fish play at the sphere. Oh
1:41:25My god
1:41:28So, all right. First of all, I'll get past some technical stuff first
1:41:32I once again use the air pods Pro as my concert earplugs and
1:41:39They I got I had the newest model the USBC ones and I don't know if that matters probably not but they were
1:41:45Flawless as concert earplugs this time. So there's been there's you know
1:41:50It's a minor hardware update since the last time I used them which was last fall or last summer
1:41:54there's also been
1:41:57There's you know, iOS 17 came out in the meantime. So there's been some software updates as well to the air pods
1:42:02So whatever they have done if it's changed or it could just be the way this fear does audio, which is kind of
1:42:08Advanced and custom and everything but whatever it is, they were flawless as concert earplugs
1:42:13There was no like weird artifacting like there was last time
1:42:17There was no like variation if I move my head side to side or like turn my head like there was last time
1:42:22It was great. I actually took a picture which I will I will make the chapter art for this chapter
1:42:27of how my watch was reducing the sound because I actually I you know, the watch measures it and tells you through the air pods and
1:42:35so
1:42:37It actually ended up keeping the sound right around
1:42:4084 decibels and it was saying like the outside world at that time in the concert was like in the 90s like around
1:42:4895 decibels
1:42:50And so with the air pods it was bringing it down to about 84 most of the time
1:42:54What mode did you have the air pods in? So this was the just regular default
1:42:58I didn't go into any of the accessibility stuff because that that alters things in ways that I don't quite want
1:43:03There's a setting called loud sound reduction
1:43:07It's just right in the regular like the first level air pods pro setting screen
1:43:12Loud sound reduction and it was in transparency mode and everything else was left alone
1:43:17So with that mode it seems to keep it around 84 decibels now for reference
1:43:22Earlier today when I was just playing music at like medium to loud volume in my car just driving around windows closed
1:43:30Playing medium to loud music in my car. It was around 80 something decibels
1:43:35It was like, you know, 84 85 86 decibels
1:43:37So like it's it didn't sound quiet and this isn't something I would recommend that you listen to like hours and hours a day
1:43:44Or even a week at this level. This is not
1:43:47Hearing protection for anybody who needs serious hearing protection
1:43:51But if you just go to a few concerts a year and you want something to be able to enjoy them with some protection
1:43:57This still continues to work fantastically. So I strongly can encourage people to try this
1:44:02I have tried, you know, we've gone over this before I'm welcome into it now
1:44:07But I've tried every concert ear plug out there
1:44:09These are better than all of them in terms of sound quality clarity ease of use even comfort for me
1:44:14they don't offer as much protection as like some of the really heavy-duty ones, but it's
1:44:20perfectly sufficient for occasional concert goers
1:44:23anyway, so
1:44:26What it is like to see a show at the sphere
1:44:30I know before you establish that can we recap for those who may not be aware what the sphere is and what the kind of?
1:44:36Schtick is. Yeah, so this is a
1:44:39Spherical concert venue in Las Vegas. It was only built a couple of years ago
1:44:45And the and the the gimmick of it or the the innovation of it
1:44:49There's a whole bunch of innovations of it
1:44:50The main one is that the entire like dome of the inside of it is a giant screen
1:44:58And they can show whatever video content they want on that screen. There's actually there's a good video. I'll put it in the show notes
1:45:05called how how sphere works and it's all about like the the technical side of
1:45:11Like what is the video resolution? How do they capture it? How do they do it?
1:45:16and it turns it's like 16 K by 16 K square and
1:45:19It's like it's absurd like the tons of custom video case. It's actually very interesting
1:45:25And so if you're interested in like the hardware of this arena, I definitely watch this video
1:45:30It's it's not that long. It's it's pretty interesting
1:45:33And it shows like, you know, what kind of screens they have and it's basically just a whole bunch of tiny LEDs that
1:45:38You're very far from them. So it just looks like a screen
1:45:41So it's it's incredible. So what it's like to actually see a concert there
1:45:47first of all, you need to go see something here because
1:45:52It is impossible to capture what this is like with you know a phone camera or whatever like
1:45:58It's very much like when you hear people try to explain what it's like to watch immersive video in a vision Pro
1:46:04And this is a theme I'll come back to when when you hear like what what it's like to be immersed in some in some kind
1:46:10Of like large, you know your entire field of view environment in vision Pro
1:46:14Everyone says the same thing like oh you just have to experience it
1:46:18you can't really like take a picture or video of it and really get what it feels like to be there and
1:46:24That's exactly what it's like seeing a concert in the sphere. Like it's it's such an amazing thing the scale of it is so
1:46:31massive it is it's huge and the screens are far away from you, so
1:46:37What this means first of all is that it is incredibly immersive in the sense that it dominates your entire field of view
1:46:43It goes depending on where you're sitting, you know
1:46:46generally goes all the entire front field of view in front of you and
1:46:50Straight like you can look straight up and you're still looking at video content and even you can look back
1:46:55Somebody if you're if you're not like in the very back of the place you can even look back
1:46:58So it's really all around you
1:47:00The sound is also really really good
1:47:02but you know, that's that's kind of the funny thing is like they have this like world-class sound system in there and it's almost like
1:47:08incidental to the reason why most people are gonna be there which is the video streams, but it is
1:47:16such an experience to be there and
1:47:18So one thing that surprised me first of all is that this the you know, the screen of the you know
1:47:25The wall like the main screen it is incredibly bright and incredibly sharp. I
1:47:30Did not expect that like I was thinking a screen that big they're gonna be doing a lot of like
1:47:35projection and scaling and I figured it would be kind of dim and I did not expect it to be very high resolution and
1:47:42It is neither like it is
1:47:44extremely high resolution and
1:47:46Extremely bright to the point where like, you know most concerts you in the audience are basically sitting in the dark
1:47:53And you know the bands lit up and occasionally maybe some light will like shine into the crowd or something
1:47:58But mostly you are sitting in the dark in the sphere the video projection, you know
1:48:03Depending obviously what they are projecting but the video content
1:48:07In fish's case was often so bright that it's lighting up the whole place
1:48:11Like you're in the living room. It's so that first of all, like you're you're bathed in light because it's it's just that bright
1:48:18it is
1:48:20so sharp that whatever they want the content to look like they can make it look like that there like
1:48:26You don't really see like pixels or you know technical details. It's just immersive
1:48:33It is everything I again. Sorry to pick on the vision Pro
1:48:37It's everything the vision Pro tries to create and and kind of can't with current technology and there's I mean
1:48:43This is a you know concert arena that cost two billion dollars to build so it's kind of an unfair comparison
1:48:49but
1:48:51It is an amazing effect to be in there
1:48:54Because the screens are also so far from you because it just it's a large venue
1:49:00they're so far from you that your eyes are effectively at like infinite focus at that point and so
1:49:05You can create 3d ish effects and it it doesn't look like you're looking at a flat screen
1:49:11It can look like you are in a 3d environment pretty well pretty convincingly just because it's so far away
1:49:17You don't perceive like the the lack of you know parallax or whatever a few remarks on the audio
1:49:23It is this like crazy world-class
1:49:26Audio system where like they use beamforming to send precise audio to each seat
1:49:31It's that's also a thing covered in the video and various articles
1:49:34It's worth looking up if you care about the kind of stuff. Yeah video had a graphic
1:49:37They showed several times that didn't actually go into they tried to I think they were trying to show that different sections of the audience
1:49:42Could be hearing things in a different language
1:49:44What yeah that that is something that that the sphere has promoted as like as an ability they have there
1:49:49I mean fish didn't do that. Everyone heard the same nonsense, but
1:49:52there are
1:49:55There were like so at certain times they they played with and I think they used it very sparingly for the best
1:50:01but at certain times they clearly were playing with panning effects where it would seem like
1:50:05one of the instruments was all of a sudden coming from like the far left side of the room and then moved across to the
1:50:11Right side of the room and then and then went back but I think you could tell that they were playing around and they did
1:50:15They did it like I went to two nights and I think I heard that a total of maybe three or four times across the two
1:50:20Concerts so they're using it very sparingly. They also
1:50:23One of the one of the features of the arena is they call it haptic seats
1:50:30so first of all the bass is
1:50:32Partially transmitted through the seat speakers like that. I guess there's speakers along the seats somehow somewhere
1:50:38I didn't see them, but maybe they're like, you know in the floor or whatever, but when you sit down
1:50:42So, you know, obviously it's a concert many people are standing most of the time
1:50:45But like, you know you get tired and eventually like you want it might want to sit down for a couple of songs
1:50:49so first of all at the sphere that's that's actually a really nice thing to do because
1:50:53Even if the people in front of you were standing so you can't see the band anymore
1:50:57You can just look up and you can see you can still see most of the video content
1:51:03Even if the people in front of you are standing and you want to sit for a minute as an as an old person
1:51:07This is disappointing to me that people are standing in the sphere. The whole point is they have these amazing haptic seats and everything
1:51:13It's like but no it's a concert. We have to stand. No, you're all just sit
1:51:17You're in like if you can't sit in the sphere like it's so clearly like an AV
1:51:22Experience they have the world's most high-tech chairs. Some of the sound is in the chair sit in the chairs
1:51:28I can't believe people are standing
1:51:30You need to wait till people I get that there needs to be a cultural shift and the beginning of the show
1:51:35They need to put up a sign that says I know you like us and you are fans of the band
1:51:40But I assure you if you all sit you all be able to see
1:51:43Yeah, well you when you run your own concert venue you can put that sign up and see how it goes
1:51:49You can make it happen. They have a lot of control cultural control over their audience
1:51:53They just need to put that message out there and people get on board. Oh my god
1:51:56anyway
1:51:57So sitting down was actually a really nice experience because you would feel much more of the bass sitting down
1:52:04So it was getting like a nice butt massage from the music and also then you know
1:52:07You could watch the screens and so this was actually really nice
1:52:09Like if you just get like if you want to take a break or something like normally most concerts you sit down
1:52:13You can't see anything anymore
1:52:14the lights are blocked the band is blocked like you can just see somebody's butt and
1:52:18In this case like that it was much better than that. So that's great. They also they have
1:52:22The the haptic seating is not just like a speaker that is just playing normal volume each of the two concerts
1:52:31They were there was one or two moments
1:52:33where it almost seemed like there was an earthquake like that the entire balcony seemed to shake and
1:52:39Everyone kind of looked around like that. Somebody just like drop a whale on this balcony or something like it
1:52:45Huge like shaking vibration and I looked it up afterwards and I learned like that's actually that's also a feature of their haptic seats
1:52:52Like they can do like larger moves like that and it feels pretty nuts
1:52:57So it was it was a really fun experience even just like the seat
1:53:02Situation because there's all these like physical features of it and physical realities of being in this big video dome
1:53:09That that was really nice
1:53:11The value of good seats is very high here. Like you really want to be
1:53:16Relatively centered in the venue. I was on the first balcony the 206 section
1:53:21I gather these are very good seats because first of all, they were very good seats
1:53:26But second of all a few rows down the people behind me pointed out was seated train estas EO's dad
1:53:32If he was put there that's a pretty good sign these are good seats
1:53:39That's the guys behind we're saying like I guess these are pretty good seats
1:53:42I also like in the little vestibule like to go down into this section
1:53:47I ran into Peter on Spock a member of goose. Did you introduce yourself or what like to say? Hi or whatever very quickly
1:53:54I just said I did the Merlin and I really really enjoy your work and I just
1:53:57Everybody was trying to take pictures with them. And so I just breeze through pretty quickly
1:54:00Like I didn't want to like be that guy
1:54:03So anyway, so yeah, I figure if if Trey's dad and a member of goose were seated in this section
1:54:09I guess it's a pretty desirable section
1:54:11But back to back to the show. So obviously as a fish fan they were the music was fantastic. They were very well-rehearsed
1:54:18It was very well produced. The visuals were great. I didn't quite know what to expect
1:54:23Like what are they gonna do with the screens?
1:54:25like I believe I speak to last week like it might be kind of like iTunes visualizer or something and
1:54:30There were certain like every song they had a different thing going on with the screens
1:54:37Certain songs were kind of like visualizer. Some of them were like basically
1:54:41composited live video effects of the band playing so they had cameras on the band like on each member of the band and they would like
1:54:49You know have some kind of visual effect like photo booth
1:54:53How's we had a visual effect?
1:54:54It's processing their live video and then throw it up on the screens like in a big grid like, you know
1:54:59Brady Bunch style or like a like some kind of like, you know video like color shifting and shadow playing and edge finding like, you know
1:55:06So they had like live video of the band playing but processed
1:55:10They also had some that were like pre rendered scenes or effects
1:55:15you know just kind of like animations almost and then some were kind of
1:55:19Tweaked live and there have been a few articles about this where they apparently the Virgin article that was they actually used
1:55:25unreal engine to actually generate like live
1:55:29Animations that what that the director could control based on what the band was doing because that's the thing like with fish
1:55:36Like they they're a jam band like, you know when you too was in this venue you too had they composed like a complete show
1:55:43with you know predefined like at this point we're gonna play this song and that we're gonna have this visual and it's gonna
1:55:49Roughly work like this and then we're gonna go to this next thing
1:55:52fish preset the setlist
1:55:54but they there are certain songs they that they jam in and
1:55:59They kind of do what they feel like and so they designed the visuals of those songs
1:56:04to be able to go on for any amount of time and to be able to be tweaked and like kind of manually
1:56:10Commanded by the visual director as things went through
1:56:13so that was just like just technically speaking like that's a pretty impressive accomplishment when you're dealing with like live manipulation of
1:56:21This these random visuals that are being rendered by unreal engine onto a 16k square
1:56:27circular projection
1:56:29It was quite a technical accomplishment and then just like content wise
1:56:34You know fish usually has a really great light show like that
1:56:39They have they have a guy Chris korota who's like this famous lighting director
1:56:43He's really well regarded and he doesn't he's done all their lights forever
1:56:47And they usually put on a really good light show and it's it's great
1:56:51But as soon as you see this you're like, oh my god, this is so much better
1:56:57Like having all of this video content it's
1:57:00Remarkable like they did this one that this is the only one I call out
1:57:04Specifically because I know we're running long, but they one of their songs pillow jets. It's a recent song
1:57:09It's not very well liked by the fans
1:57:12It's kind of a kind of a slower or maybe a little bit boring song
1:57:16And so when that song started it they they had like this like forest that you're like slowly moving through almost like an Apple TV
1:57:23landscape screensaver you're like slowly moving forward in this in this like CGI forest and that song comes on and a bunch of fans kind of
1:57:30Really?
1:57:30well
1:57:31I guess this is a good time to go to the bathroom the whole row in front of me got up and left
1:57:35that's
1:57:36and this song proceeded to slowly like
1:57:40It was you're going through this forest and then the colors start shifting on the trees
1:57:45and
1:57:46Then they get a little bit brighter colored and then these things start moving
1:57:51And then like over the course of this like ten minute long song the trees slowly start becoming
1:57:55fireworks of color and like the colors are
1:57:59Exploding out of each of the leaves of the trees and I'm like and this is a good time for me to clarify
1:58:03I was completely sober and on no drugs whatsoever for this show
1:58:07I was about to ask I was trying to figure out how to interrupt and ask that question delicately
1:58:12So I'm glad you've already answered it for me. Yeah, so I was I was a little bit sick
1:58:15I had like a cold and so I didn't have anything else in my system except
1:58:20It's funny like, you know, I on the way in like, you know
1:58:22The security guys like, you know, what's in your pocket and I take out a bag of fishermen's friends
1:58:26I'm probably the only person here who brings in a bag of cough drops to a fish concert that are actually just cough drops
1:58:33Anyway, so I'm there
1:58:37totally sober and this ridiculous like
1:58:41Mushroom trip color explosion is happening on the streets and I felt high like it was that immersive
1:58:48Like I don't need to do any drugs to feel this feeling like this is amazing
1:58:53and and it's just it shows like the the incredible immersion and and of course the I mean
1:58:59Some of this is just I say a large part of this is that fish themselves and their visual staff
1:59:04Did a really good job with it. Like this is this is a canvas bands can use it in different ways
1:59:09There's gonna be bands that do it worse and better
1:59:12Fish does a really good job with this stuff and this was no exception. They did an amazing job
1:59:16And and yeah, the pillow jets tree firework explosion mushroom trip was definitely my favorite
1:59:22Like and I had the clear view because everyone in front of me got up and left and like they came back afterwards and I was
1:59:28Just thinking like you guys have no idea what you just missed
1:59:30But anyway, they did a such a fantastic job
1:59:34It was great and it really like it is so much elevated above a regular concert experience
1:59:42Because is such a production the ability to do this. Well will be mostly limited to
1:59:48Really big really profitable bands
1:59:50so you're not gonna see like indie bands here and and part of that's good because
1:59:54Like this is very different from the experience of seeing a band in most venues because in most venues you are looking at the band
2:00:00You are watching them play and maybe looking a little bit the lights with this the band could have not even been there
2:00:06Because what you're watching you're watching the entire
2:00:10Sky above them so you're not really looking down at the band very much at all. Oh, that's wild
2:00:16You know, that's gonna that's gonna affect obviously like what kind of act you'd want to see in a place like this
2:00:20but with that disclaimer aside and with the obvious disclaimer that like
2:00:25Only the biggest acts will be able to afford to produce a show like this with all these visuals and everything like that
2:00:31with those disclaimers aside I
2:00:35Strongly encourage you all out there if you ever get a chance to see anything at the sphere
2:00:42go see it if you if you are in Vegas for whatever reason and
2:00:46There's a band playing there and you can get reasonable tickets that are somewhat centrally located in the venue
2:00:52Go even if even if it is not a band that you would otherwise love
2:00:56It is quite an experience now if you can get a band you love that's of course way better
2:01:01But it is so unique and it's so immersive and so frankly
2:01:07Mind-blowing go see anything there
2:01:10Whatever is playing that you can get into next time you find a way to get to Vegas or if you happen to be there
2:01:16for other reasons
2:01:17Go trust me go see anything there. It is that much of a good experience
2:01:23Apple recorded the whole thing and it'll be released on vision Pro soon, right? Oh, can you imagine?
2:01:27So that's the thing like the whole time. I'm thinking like this is the perfect
2:01:32advertisement for VR headsets
2:01:35Sort of see the thing is like so as I was thinking like man, I would love if
2:01:41There could be like, you know a VR headset version of this like I would love they just like put
2:01:47apples like Alicia Keys cameras like put those in the balcony that I was sitting in and
2:01:53Just sell me a live stream of a fixed camera from that perspective that I can just you know
2:01:57Look up and down whenever I want to look all around me. That's such fish thinking
2:02:01No, what you want is the direct feed of that 16k by 16k video mapped onto a sphere inside vision Pro
2:02:07You don't need to send it through the analog hole and then get it back in through cameras. No go direct
2:02:13Just get the video. But here's the thing. So I thought about that like obviously obviously you're right
2:02:17That would be an option but like there was there was one song they played a song called ghost
2:02:23In the first when I was there where the visual was these giant
2:02:27They looked like giant robots made of high-voltage power line towers like those giant towers a hold the high-voltage power lines
2:02:35You know, they were like giant robots made of those
2:02:37and just against just flat black like straight black backdrop and these giant robots that are standing above you made of power lines and
2:02:45Because again like because the screens are so far from you. You can't tell that these are being rendered right up, you know
2:02:52relatively close to you and so it looked like you were actually standing below these
2:02:57giant hundreds of feet tall
2:03:00You know power line robots that were angry and then at one point with the one the one that was directly above you
2:03:08leaned forward and it looked like it was gonna fall on the entire audience and
2:03:12everyone freaked out
2:03:15And because
2:03:18Part of the experience of being a place like this is the people around you you're experiencing this together
2:03:25with the audience of other
2:03:27Extremely high people around you if a vision Pro or you know
2:03:32Like if a VR headset version of this was just transmitting the feed of video in
2:03:37That being mapped on the screens and you were sitting in an empty movie theater
2:03:42It's kind of thing like like what they have at some of the experiences now
2:03:45I think it would feel like many people complain about the vision Pro
2:03:48it would feel very lonely because it's like oh, I'm in the middle of this concert arena and
2:03:53No one else is here with me like part of the experience of being a place like this is
2:03:58Feeling what everyone else was feeling and and capturing like what makes everyone else excited
2:04:04I think for this to succeed if there if this was ever to succeed in a VR
2:04:08content play
2:04:10Ideally, it would need to be like a live recording
2:04:14Like from a from a perspective of a good seat in the audience. Why wouldn't you just want to be in it with?
2:04:215,000 other people also have vision pros on you know
2:04:25I mean like that's the the VR presence thing the whole personas thing
2:04:28What if you were in a theater where every single seat was filled with the persona?
2:04:31I think that would be really weird and creepy. I don't know
2:04:34I mean, maybe I'm just too new to the VR world, but I'm still kind of down on those
2:04:38Yeah
2:04:38I mean obviously it's not gonna be as high fidelity as
2:04:40Actual humans and probably not as high fidelity right now as a recording of actual humans
2:04:45But I feel like the goal is hey instead of me just putting on this thing and me being alone in this giant sphere
2:04:50It's me and the 5,000 other people who are all doing it all instants together in this one thing and I can hear them
2:04:56You know, ooh and ah when the big robot leans forward and stuff like that
2:05:00I don't we're not there yet to be clear, but I feel like that is
2:05:02Attainable with not so distant technology. It would be tempting to make it too technically perfect
2:05:09by doing things like just sending you the video stream and mapping it in 3d and everything and
2:05:13Under value of the human element and the value of the human element. I think that would be a mistake
2:05:18The human element is very much a part of the experience of being there
2:05:23Anything that's going to succeed and and give you anything close to the experience you want needs that it needs the human element
2:05:29I think there is potential opportunity
2:05:31For a VR content play here. I would love I would definitely buy it if I could
2:05:37For many great concerts and live events, that would be wonderful
2:05:40But it would have to it have to capture the people to even like even like honestly live sporting events, too
2:05:46I mean, I mean the people would be there anyway
2:05:48so I guess you capture them regardless but like when you're at a live sporting event a huge part of the fun of being there is
2:05:53being in the crowd with the other people in the crowd and and
2:05:57Reacting with them and feeling and hearing their reactions to everything. That's part of the fun of being in a live event
2:06:03Yeah, I know that's what that's what VR is trying to do with all presence thing
2:06:06I feel like my friend is sitting next to me on the couch as we're watching it together
2:06:09I feel like I'm in a stadium with 10,000 people but it's 10,000 personas, you know
2:06:12Like that's I know that we're not there yet. But that's the whole idea is that the humans are providing that content
2:06:17they're providing the the movement the sound the oohs and the aahs the
2:06:20jostling the looking to the side and seeing expressions on your friend's face
2:06:24like that's I feel like that's where it the experience that is sold by a lot of the VR stuff and you know it with the
2:06:31the personas that Casey got to try with Mike or whatever like it's
2:06:35It's obviously not there yet
2:06:37but it is actually there is a there's a tiny glimmer of that human element that you're talking about even in the very primitive even
2:06:44even playing battleship with
2:06:46Shells of yourself that aren't even visible from the back
2:06:48There is definitely a place for that there is value for that
2:06:52but I think that's never going to replace or even compete with the value of
2:06:59Like actual humans being there if that is an option available
2:07:03so like obviously not every context that's an option like that isn't always a possibility but
2:07:07When that is a possibility like if you're trying to do some kind of live event as content
2:07:11Like I think you want the live people there in some context now
2:07:14Obviously you can do things to like reduce their their annoyingness
2:07:18Like you you wouldn't see the camera so low that when the people in front of you stand up they block
2:07:22You know
2:07:23I was gonna say like the cut this type of thing is ideal for things like the vision probe because you
2:07:28Do actually have a stationary camera?
2:07:29Yeah, like you don't you don't you don't get up and go to the camera doesn't get up and go to the bathroom
2:07:33So you don't have any of the problems of like motion sickness and changing perspective and cutting for you could do that
2:07:39But they they shouldn't they should just even more so than sporting events because in a concert venue like this
2:07:44There is one pretty much best seat in the house
2:07:46Which you were apparently very close to whereas in a sporting event
2:07:48The field is so big that sometimes you do want like a close-up on the goal or you know a different perspectives
2:07:53But this show is made to be viewed from an audience
2:07:56So you can just pick that ideal seat plant the camera or virtual camera there and just keep there the whole time
2:08:02Yeah
2:08:02And they can already be part of like the whole like there's like a bit right like
2:08:05Only a few rows behind me was like the big like sound and video booth kind of thing
2:08:11Like the big like sound and video mixing board set up and everything
2:08:13That's the perfect place put it there like have it be part of that and done
2:08:17I think there's something to be said like like Marco was saying a moment ago
2:08:21I mean, I don't get to go to concerts often
2:08:23But it is one of my favorite things to do is go to see you know music live and I
2:08:27Really think that part of what makes that so fun is that shared group experience is knowing even even for a band like fish
2:08:36Where it's so easy to get a hand get your hands on a copy of the show
2:08:39It's still amazing knowing that you're seeing art being created live right in front of your eyes and to a degree
2:08:47The people the thousands of the hundreds of the thousands of tens of thousands of people that are next to you
2:08:52are the only ones that will ever really and truly get the full version of that experience and even a
2:08:58Perfectly constructed vision Pro version of that experience immersive experience
2:09:03It's still in my eyes not exactly the same as being there now
2:09:07Does that mean it doesn't have merit? Of course not
2:09:10I think it would be amazing to be able to go on tour with Dave Matthews Bandar fish or who have you?
2:09:14Without having to leave your house like that would be incredible
2:09:17but
2:09:19It will never replace the real deal, you know and and there's room in the world for both of these things
2:09:25And I would love for both of these things to exist
2:09:27But you can pry a real honest-to-goodness concert from my cold cold dead hands
2:09:32I wonder what's more expensive flying to Las Vegas and seeing a real sphere show or buying an evolution problem
2:09:37No comment. I'm not even the one who spent the money and I'm still saying no comment
2:09:42Yeah
2:09:42like the VR version of this is obviously that we're projecting into a future where it is much less expensive to
2:09:47Do this from your home and far more people can do it then because I think I don't know how many Spears they're planning on making
2:09:53Their their plans for a bunch of other ones in other places, but like if people could do this from their own home
2:09:58It's like they're seeing TV in a movie theater or seeing live sports for seeing sports on TV
2:10:02So you sports on TV is not the same as seeing live sports
2:10:05But it is way more accessible to way more people and it's way less expensive and way more convenient
2:10:10And it does actually have some advantages overseeing sports live in terms of perspective changes and in sin replay and stuff
2:10:16So yeah, I think there's definitely a place for
2:10:18Both of these things. I don't I don't think the this sphere is going to
2:10:23Be obsolete anytime soon because big impressive screens are always big and impressive by the way
2:10:28This is why people are so excited about micro LED TVs because this is just a big micro LED TV
2:10:34But yeah, the problem micro LED TVs is to make make the LEDs small enough and close enough together
2:10:41That's why like the micro LED TV is always so big like used to be the smallest one
2:10:45You can get was like a hundred inches. They recently at CES
2:10:47They have one that was 77 inches and people like oh my god
2:10:4977 inches like people were excited that it was so small which is like the opposite of what everyone's been thinking about
2:10:55televisions for the entire history of television
2:10:57It's because they want this tech to be get to the point where they can jam all those little tiny lights
2:11:02Into a normal sized television set that doesn't cost as much as a car
2:11:06Unfortunately, they still cost tens of thousands of dollars. But yeah this they don't have a space problem
2:11:10So but that's what it is individual tiny LEDs and they can be really bright
2:11:14And they look really good as long as you're far enough away from them a couple of quick thoughts
2:11:19First of all, if you haven't seen Drew Carey's review of his experience at the the sphere
2:11:28Everyone has said it to me it is it is something and it is worth watching
2:11:32It is not really kid-friendly, but it is quite funny. Let's just say he enjoyed his experience
2:11:36He very much enjoyed his experience. He had a lot of cough drops
2:11:44Then secondly somebody suggested this to me a while back
2:11:47I don't I don't have the faintest memory who it was and I apologize but um, there's a vision Pro app called
2:11:53Amaze VR and I will put a link in the show notes
2:11:58it is
2:12:00Ostensibly a like music kind of sort of concert app where you can download these immersive
2:12:08I'm gonna say concerts, but that's a stretch
2:12:11And you can watch them and they have Megan stallion t-pain event sevenfold and there's a free one
2:12:17That is a Zara Larson who I think I recognized the song that she played
2:12:22Let me tell you I have an experience with getting real old that maybe we can talk about another time
2:12:26But I feel older and older every passing day. But anyways, I mean that is how time works
2:12:30Yeah, well, yes, but no in terms of like I feel like an old man now, but anyways
2:12:34the the
2:12:37These are concerts ish. It's more like, you know
2:12:40Let me drop an actual artist and like a completely CGI environment and it is immersive
2:12:46But it's not a concert in the way that you and I think of concerts
2:12:49Nevertheless it is worth checking out and downloading the free one just to see what sorts of things are possible
2:12:55And you know, there's not that much else to do with vision Pro right now
2:12:59So why not do that?
2:13:00So we'll put a link in the show notes
2:13:02but it is funny because the Sarah Larson one she does like a song on the free version and
2:13:06There's at one point where she is at eye level
2:13:09and gets like right up to the camera way closer than I saw Alicia Keys get and it was like
2:13:16Kind of uncomfortable and off-putting like it was felt like she was looking deep into your eyes and then like a not comfortable way
2:13:23I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe I'm just weird and old but that's kind of how I felt with the with the Highline video
2:13:29Yeah
2:13:29like when it starts out and that you're extremely close to the woman's face and you're like
2:13:33I feel like I'm a creep like I don't want to be like, I don't know this person
2:13:38She doesn't know me. I feel like I should not be standing this closer. The difference though. Is that in in this case?
2:13:43Sarah Larson is like looking into the camera
2:13:46Whereas I forget the woman's name, but from the Highline thing
2:13:49She was kind of looking past the camera, but this is like I'm staring into your soul
2:13:53So this scenario is very very uncomfortable
2:13:56But anyway, it is it is worth checking out despite all that just to see what's possible. So you should you should take a look
2:14:02Yeah, because like again like I think after I was there
2:14:05I looked up some videos of first of all
2:14:08Like what was what they had done like the nights before I was there because I missed the first two nights
2:14:12Okay, I kind of regret honestly not going to all four but I had no way to know they would be this good but
2:14:19but anyway, so I looked up some stuff I hadn't seen and I also looked up some videos of
2:14:24Parts of the concerts that I that I did attend just to kind of see like, you know
2:14:29how they're remembering it right and I kind of wanted to try to relive some of it and
2:14:32Even the really good videos
2:14:35Do not feel like what it felt like to be there
2:14:38It is really like videos cannot captures and this again. This is what everyone says about VR experiences too because a
2:14:46small video cannot possibly capture a
2:14:50360-degree or 180 degree in front of you kind of experience like it is way better to experience it in person or
2:14:58For things that don't exist in person in 3d like that's that is way better. So this is a huge opportunity
2:15:05Like this is a demo to show everyone like oh, this is why VR could be really cool
2:15:10but if anything going to the sphere suggests like yeah, but everyone in here is seeing
2:15:15Way better quality video than any VR headset can offer today
2:15:21It's hearing way better quality audio with I would I would point out a subwoofer
2:15:27Which currently is not super practical or easily possible with VR headsets?
2:15:32And you get the communal experiences if anything this shows like VR has promise if these deals can be made
2:15:40but nothing beats the real thing and
2:15:42Man, is this our crazy real thing to experience like again go see
2:15:48Anything in that venue if you happen to like it, that's even better
2:15:53But go see anything in that venue. It is quite an experience. I strongly recommend it
2:15:59I like that you're calling a gigantic array of LEDs the real thing
2:16:03The real thing is red rocks Marco the real world the real sky the real mountains
2:16:08I mean fish plays there a lot but like they can't make a space vortex above them when they do
2:16:13Well, you know what if there was a real space vortex?
2:16:16Could happen if it was ever gonna happen. It would happen above a fish concert. That's for sure
2:16:21Yeah, it happened about the show red rocks probably. Yeah, probably or at least people will report it having seen it. Well. Yeah
2:16:27I'm sure that happens a lot
2:16:29(beeping)