0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 511 for May 7th 2024. Today's show is brought to you by
0:00:17Squarespace, Tailscale, Vitaly and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi,
0:00:23Jason Snow. Hi, Mike Hurley. How are you? I am very well, Jason. I have a snow talk question for you.
0:00:28It comes from me. Oh, where are you right now, Jason Snow? Mike Hurley, I am reporting to you live
0:00:36from a hotel room in New York City. New York! New York City! Hey, he's podcasting you! Hey, forget about it. Forget about it. We'll talk about why you're there in a little bit because I also had a fun experience today too for the iPad event which we're going to be talking about.
0:00:57So, but I'm happy that you were able to make it and we're still here to record a show as we always do. Even though you're in New York and I'm here in London. If you would like to send in a snow talk question to open a future episode of the show, you can just go to upgradefeedback.com, leave a question for us for a future episode.
0:01:18Before we get started today, Jason, I want to remind the Upgradients that we have merchandise available, limited edition upgrade tees in a variety of designs. But this is the last time you're going to hear us talk about it. It's just six days left.
0:01:34So if you want to get yourself one of our fantastic new upgrade logo tees in either the pro colors or the colors are colors, these are really great t-shirts. I'm very happy with it. Whatever color you choose is the color of the arrow and the upgrade logo.
0:01:48Or you want to get our awesome gradient summer fun t-shirt or dongle town tee, you've got to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com. These are available for just a few more days. It's the last time you hear us talk about it. So please go check it out. Support your favorite show and wear it on your body.
0:02:08Good, yeah. Good use of your torso. Wear the show on your body. What are you doing in real life if you're not doing that? Makes sense. Upgradiowardrobe.com.
0:02:18So before we get into talking about all of the products that were announced, we should do as we do and score the draft, which I will remind people was a draft that we made at the end of March for these iPads. I'm proud of us, Mike. Because we thought it was going to be, you know, press releases any day now. We don't want to waste a draft. Little did we know there was going to be more of an event than Apple's done in a very long time.
0:02:47Since October. I would say, well, considering that it was a MacBook, multiple locations, this is like a thing that they have not done for a super long time. That's true. That's true. That's true. I'm proud of us. We, I mean, I'm more proud of you.
0:03:03Although I'll say last week I looked at this and I thought you were going to destroy me. And in the end I did better than I expected. Yes. But you are once again continuing your amazing streak. Thank you. I've got to get more boring and more competitive to win.
0:03:17No, we score it at 7-6. So I don't know if there was really much of it. I will just say I run through these real quick. We're a little fuzzier on our scoring than usual, but this is a score that we can agree on.
0:03:33The challenge here is, um, we did this so long ago and like one of the things that I got right was not mentioned in the video, but was part of the announcement. And this was so long ago now that I'm like, I don't know. We didn't, we didn't record by the time we recorded it wasn't right after.
0:03:51But we don't even need to argue about it. So it doesn't matter. But I should not have been allowed to pick this, but I picked it and I got it right. So it's fine. It's a thing that there's some stuff that maybe we wouldn't have picked the way that we did if we thought there was a video. Cause there's stuff that just doesn't get shown in videos. So we've been a little bit more fuzzy. So, uh, we'll run through, uh, your picks and my picks. So we have for Jason new Apple pencil introduced, got that. Correct. Larger track pad on the magic keyboard.
0:04:17Correct. The base model iPad receives an update. So the entire draft hinges on this one, but you and I and Stephen Hackett all agree that although the lower, the base model iPad got a price change, it did not technically receive an update and therefore it is wrong.
0:04:38An iPad pro case is often in a color that isn't essentially gray, white or black.
0:04:43Correct. Denim is the color of the day. Everybody.
0:04:50I'm genuinely very surprised that you got this.
0:04:54It's just barely not black, white or gray, but it is. It's denim. It's sort of blue. Winner. Winner.
0:05:01An iPad pro has a new OS feature to fix a bunch of a new accessory.
0:05:05Yeah, it does. There's the whole little, uh, squeeze menu thing.
0:05:10There's a bunch of stuff going on in the Apple. And the barrel roll thing, we got stuff to talk about. Yeah.
0:05:14The magic keyboard comes color matched to the iPad pro models.
0:05:18I was last week I was like, oh man, I don't know about this, but it's absolutely true. The aluminum, uh, of the magic keyboard comes in the same two boring colors that the iPad pro comes in.
0:05:28Which is weird because like the white, one of them is called white, but it's only white on the plastic part.
0:05:34The aluminum. We'll talk about it later, but they're not what I expected, but yeah, totally.
0:05:40Magic keyboard only works with 2024 iPad pro models.
0:05:44Correct. We'll talk more about that later.
0:05:47The new Apple pencil has an eraser.
0:05:49Womp, womp, womp. Still a one sided pencil.
0:05:52So six points for you. You did get the tiebreaker.
0:05:55I did.
0:05:57I had both iPad pro models have an OLED display.
0:06:01Which they do. Yep.
0:06:04The iPad pro front camera is on the horizontal edge, which it is. Yep.
0:06:08The iPad air comes in the current iPad pro sizes. Correct.
0:06:12The iPad pro starts at a higher price. Oh boy does it.
0:06:15Actually, um, I want to back up. Yeah.
0:06:18iPad air comes in current iPad pro sizes. Again, an ungentlemanly participant could claim that since it is now a 13 inch iPad air, it is not the same size as the 12.9 inch iPad pro of the last generation.
0:06:32However, it is literally the same size. Yes. So I'm not going to play that.
0:06:39And also like what's current. You know what I mean?
0:06:42Yeah, I know.
0:06:43The iPad pro starts at a higher price, which it does. The new magic cube board has a function row, which it does.
0:06:49The iPad air front camera is on the horizontal edge.
0:06:53The new Apple pencil charges magnetically. Yeah it does.
0:06:57And the iPad pro gets mag safe for charging.
0:07:01Yeah.
0:07:03So look, I know what you mean. 7.6. I'm proud of us.
0:07:07Out of 8 each.
0:07:09It's pretty great. I think I did a really good job. And don't forget, this was before that Mark Gurman report as well.
0:07:15That's true.
0:07:17Good work to us.
0:07:19Good. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. But slightly better job to you than to me.
0:07:22But the story continues.
0:07:23Good work there. Yes, it does.
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0:09:46So you're in New York today.
0:09:49New York City.
0:09:50Which is interesting because you don't live very far from up above.
0:09:54I don't live here. No, it's that thing that happens sometimes where I'm summoned to New York.
0:09:59This all started when we interviewed Colleen Navielli I think where they're like,
0:10:04"Oh Jason, we got some briefings in Cupertino but you have to go to New York because that's where Colleen is and that's where you're going to interview her."
0:10:09But it also happens sometimes.
0:10:11I was just here in October for the MacBook Pro launch and I'm back.
0:10:17So they do press events.
0:10:19They did them this year for this event in New York and in London where members of the press were invited to come and watch a video together.
0:10:27What a communal experience.
0:10:28And then afterward, of course, have lots of conversations with people at Apple.
0:10:32All of which are on background, no quotes, but for background information about the product.
0:10:38So that's what happened.
0:10:39So I was with a friend of the show, Federico Fittucci, and we were at the London event.
0:10:44It was inside the atrium of Apple Battersea.
0:10:48It looked beautiful.
0:10:49Which is an absolutely stunning building that I've gotten to spend a little time in before but this is the most time that I've spent there, especially in the atrium area.
0:10:56And it was a really interesting experience.
0:10:58So Greg Joswiak came out before to introduce the video.
0:11:03Jos was very excited about the fact that so many people were there.
0:11:08They had media, it was hundreds of people were there, from all over Europe and Asia.
0:11:13They said that there were 30 countries represented from the media.
0:11:17And I saw people from YouTubers that I recognise all the way to newspapers and journalists and other content creators and everybody in between.
0:11:26It was very interesting.
0:11:29And I've got to say, Apple, please do this all the time.
0:11:33Please.
0:11:34Just for me.
0:11:35You know, I would love this.
0:11:37They used to do this.
0:11:38I remember this used to be a thing that Apple did a long time ago.
0:11:41That they would have events for European media at the Regent Street Apple Store.
0:11:47They would close it and they would turn it into a press event.
0:11:50I'm just saying from the bottom of my heart, please let it happen.
0:11:53Oh and then also at the end, John Turnus came onto the stage to talk about the products a little bit and then take us to the hands-on area.
0:12:02So we also got to spend time with, you know, basically the hands-on, it was like a hands-on area.
0:12:06It was like a hands-on area that I've seen at Apple Park.
0:12:08You know, they had the whole thing.
0:12:09It was really awesome.
0:12:11So I'm very happy that we got to do that today.
0:12:13I do, there is a thing for me which is intriguing that this event was earlier.
0:12:18And my expectation is it was earlier to make the London event make more sense.
0:12:24Because it seemed like a bigger production than the event in New York.
0:12:29And I don't know why they did it.
0:12:31I don't know.
0:12:33It's an interesting idea.
0:12:34I guess experimenting with trying to appeal to the European audience as well as the North American audience by having it be timed so that they could do events in both London and New York and cover a large portion of their primary market.
0:12:48I think that's, you know, they're trying stuff.
0:12:50I think one of the things that's been interesting about modern Apple marketing is, and PR, is that they're experimenting with different concepts for it.
0:12:59So here, instead of just having, so in October what happened is we all got briefings under embargo because the event was at 5 p.m. Eastern, right?
0:13:10Or 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. It was late, right? Whatever it was.
0:13:14By the time the video was rolled, I was on an airplane going home.
0:13:18But we got it all under embargo and so we wrote our stories or whatever first looks we had and those were all posted in embargo time.
0:13:26Well, this time we all just showed up at 9.30 and were seated at 10 to watch the video and then everything happened post announcement.
0:13:34And it's just a different take on it.
0:13:37Yeah, so I see, I thought, oh, I know what this is all about.
0:13:41Like when the invitation came through for me, which is, oh, they're launching Vision Pro.
0:13:45But they didn't do that.
0:13:47And once Tim started with it, I was like, oh, here we go.
0:13:52Like that's how they started the presentation and that seemed like the logical thing to me.
0:13:56Like if you were going to launch a Vision Pro, you'd want to have people see it, maybe have demos.
0:14:01So you'd set up like an event for Europe and maybe other countries and it turned out like basically all of Asia to come over.
0:14:08But yeah, that didn't happen. I don't know if that was maybe the plan when they set this whole thing up.
0:14:13But it doesn't seem like there is potentially an issue of availability of the Vision Pro.
0:14:18So I don't know. I don't know why they did it, but I really hope they do more of it because it was for me, like fantastic.
0:14:25And also everybody that I spoke to at Apple seemed really excited to be there.
0:14:29I think people just love that building because it really is awesome.
0:14:32But yeah, it was lovely.
0:14:33Yeah, it's a showcase for them.
0:14:35It was really fun to do an iPad event in Federica.
0:14:38The six story building that they own in Tribeca is also very impressive, I will say.
0:14:42It's just not quite a public space.
0:14:44It's like a private event space, but it's very impressive.
0:14:48Yep.
0:14:49So let's start by talking about the iPad Air, I think, because there's just less to say here.
0:14:54And then we can talk about the iPad Pro in a little bit.
0:14:57We now have what we thought we were going to get, 11.
0:15:02And thankfully, they are now calling these devices 13 inch.
0:15:0613 inch iPad Air. We tried to make this happen last time and people pushed back at us and said you can't do that.
0:15:11And so now Apple has blessed us to do it so we can call it the 13 inch iPad Air anymore.
0:15:18I mean, it's literally the same size, as I said, during our draft.
0:15:21It's literally the size and shape of the iPad Pro as we knew it before today.
0:15:26That's literally what these things are.
0:15:28In fact, you could mix and match with one exception.
0:15:32You could mix and match features from previous iPad Pros and make these products.
0:15:36But they're calling them 11 and 13. Hallelujah.
0:15:40It has a landscape camera.
0:15:42There's your exception.
0:15:44They moved the camera on the iPad Air to the landscape side.
0:15:48Yeah, and with, we'll talk about the Apple Pencil later, but with support for the new Apple Pencil Pro.
0:15:56They did something that I was pontificating on on Connected last week, which was a way to handle this situation is to split the camera and the Face ID sensors apart and put the magnet in the middle.
0:16:09It seems like that's essentially what they did.
0:16:11If you look at the device now, you can see you have the camera and then you can see you have the sensors, but they are further apart from each other.
0:16:19Because the camera is not needed for Face ID.
0:16:22It's not the same thing.
0:16:26So they don't have to be next to each other.
0:16:29It turns out they aren't, which is great, but it does come with some pitfalls for the Pencil.
0:16:35It has an M2 in it, this iPad Air. I guess that was the expectation, right?
0:16:40That it would go M2.
0:16:42They didn't go very hard with the colors.
0:16:44There is a color.
0:16:47When they said purple, Federico turned to me and said, "Where is it?"
0:16:51When he was showing the four of them.
0:16:53I have a similar story.
0:16:55I was in a room with two iPad Airs.
0:16:58One was in blue and one was in purple.
0:17:01The Apple person gestured to them and said, "This is purple and blue."
0:17:06I worked real hard not to laugh out loud and embarrass this person in front of all of the media who were with us.
0:17:14Because if you would ask me what colors they were, I would have said, "Gray and gray."
0:17:21But they are blue and purple.
0:17:23Blue and purple are colors I can see, Mike.
0:17:25I can see those colors.
0:17:27I didn't see them. Where are they?
0:17:30They are not the vibrant...
0:17:33Remember, again, the higher the price, the less colorful the product.
0:17:37That's the Apple rule.
0:17:39Talking about price, they actually do start at the same price, $599.
0:17:44But with more storage.
0:17:46Great price.
0:17:47128GB of storage, which is great.
0:17:49I have an M1 iPad Air, which I got during WWDC 2022.
0:17:59I was stuck in a hotel, so I got an iPad to be delivered to me so I could have something to do.
0:18:05I wanted to try out Stage Manager.
0:18:07Do you remember when Stage Manager was just on...
0:18:09Yeah.
0:18:10On the suns.
0:18:11I don't know if the... Anyway, I couldn't use it on M1, so I was like, "Let me get this to try it out."
0:18:16And I got the 64GB because it was like, "I don't think I'm going to need this."
0:18:20Yesterday, we now use that iPad Air as an iPad to watch TV on when we eat dinner or something.
0:18:27And yesterday, the iPad was upset at me telling me it was full.
0:18:31But at this point, there's nothing I can delete from the iPad.
0:18:35I have the apps that I need, like the streaming video apps, but then my thumbnails for my photos are too big.
0:18:43The attachment to my messages, they're too big.
0:18:46And the system is taking up 25GB just for system stuff.
0:18:51And it's just becoming... I'm at the point yesterday where I was just removing the mail app and the notes from this iPad
0:19:00just so it would stop telling me that there was an issue.
0:19:04I'm happy with this 128GB. I think that this is a needed thing now.
0:19:11We're going to move past 64GB. 64GB is way too small.
0:19:14And you can go to 56GB and 512GB and 1GB, right?
0:19:19Yes. They added more storage tiers.
0:19:23So the iPad Air goes to 128GB, 256GB, 512GB and a terabyte.
0:19:30Yep. Which is cool to have.
0:19:34And $799 is the starting price for the 13-inch model, which I'll just say again,
0:19:39is essentially, with a couple of exceptions, is essentially the old iPad Pro for $799.
0:19:47Which is pretty good. Pretty good.
0:19:50And Apple was clear. So, again, it's one of those things where I can't really quote anybody.
0:19:56It's all in background. But I'll just say this.
0:19:58Apple is clear. The whole point of the iPad Air is to get iPad Pro features and technology
0:20:07into a product that's more affordable so that it can reach more people.
0:20:12That is the stated -- not quoting directly, but I heard it multiple times --
0:20:17that is the stated purpose of the iPad Air.
0:20:20Is take iPad Pro technology and bring it down to a more affordable price point.
0:20:25So this is that whole Tim Cook thing.
0:20:27You start off with those things and they're the expensive product,
0:20:30but then they bring them down to the lower end product.
0:20:32So they didn't bring everything down. They didn't bring Face ID down.
0:20:35But they brought a lot of things down and plus moved the camera to the horizontal.
0:20:40But if you're a fan of the iPad Pro and maybe were hoping for something that you didn't get today,
0:20:49but you want a new iPad Pro because yours is a little old, maybe it's a pre-M1 or something like that,
0:20:55the $799 13-inch iPad Air is basically that.
0:21:00It's basically last year's or two years ago, iPad Pro with a couple differences.
0:21:06The screen isn't as good and the camera's in a better place and there's no Face ID.
0:21:11It's not everything, right? It's not everything, but it's a lot of the things for $799. Pretty good.
0:21:16It supports the Magic Keyboard too, if you want to use that.
0:21:21It does. It does the original Magic Keyboard, the 2020 Magic Keyboard.
0:21:24Yeah. And I don't think it supports the Smart Keyboard Folio.
0:21:29So I think if you want -- on the website, it says like on these tech specs,
0:21:35it's got like the compared to previous ones, it says it supports the Smart Keyboard,
0:21:41where the previous iPad Pro, for example, says it supports the keyboard and the Keyboard Folio.
0:21:47I don't know. I don't know about that.
0:21:49That seems a bit strange.
0:21:51Oh, and also it doesn't do ProMotion. I mean, there are things that it doesn't do.
0:21:54It's actually interesting if you think about it. The features that Apple --
0:21:58okay, stated goal, bring iPad Pro technology down in a more affordable price point
0:22:05so it reaches more people.
0:22:07Actuality, Face ID can't do it. ProMotion can't do it.
0:22:11And how much of that is trying to retain some Pro features for the Pro
0:22:17and how much of that is -- it's really expensive.
0:22:20My understanding is like Face ID, that sensor, it's really expensive.
0:22:24And so it's really easy to just say, "We're not going to do it. Touch ID is lovely.
0:22:29We're just going to leave that off."
0:22:31But for whatever reason, there are some pieces that aren't there.
0:22:33But still, still, it's a very impressive pair of iPads for $599 and $799 starting prices.
0:22:42Those are pretty good.
0:22:43I think it's just the 12 point -- maybe it's just the 12.9 that doesn't support the Smart Keyboard.
0:22:49You mean the 13?
0:22:51I meant the 13. Yeah, thank you.
0:22:54We're getting used to it.
0:22:58But on Apple's website, it might be one of those things where before --
0:23:02It could be a quirk.
0:23:04It doesn't fit perfectly but maybe works.
0:23:07But they're saying that it's a Magic Keyboard is what you need now for those.
0:23:12I don't know.
0:23:13I'll just say there's no more 9th Gen iPad that's publicly available.
0:23:17We can get it in spots, right? I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up in Walmart.
0:23:20It's in the education store because there are a lot of education customers that need it.
0:23:25So I feel like this is actually kind of like the M1 MacBook Air where it's not entirely gone.
0:23:31But in terms of the message Apple is sending to consumers and the general consumer market, forget about it.
0:23:36Forget about it. It's gone.
0:23:38And I wanted to mention -- I've seen a lot of people talking about this already.
0:23:43I'm seeing Think Pieces springing up all over the web.
0:23:46The iPad Air is heavier than the iPad Pro.
0:23:50This is just a thing that people find funny.
0:23:53I understand it. It doesn't fit the same conventions as laptops.
0:23:59I just think it's been a while now where Air just means regular and then Pro means the other thing.
0:24:08But the iPad has something called iPad so what else are you going to call it?
0:24:12Exactly. I think that's -- well, and the MacBook Air.
0:24:16Air means kind of what most people will want, I think.
0:24:21And I know that that's a function of going all the way back to the original MacBook Air and that people like the name.
0:24:25It's not something you'd want to call it that.
0:24:27But if you view Apple's product line and you see iPad Air, iPad Pro, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro,
0:24:331113, 1315, it kind of makes sense in that context of I get why this tag means this part of the product line.
0:24:43Yeah, and if you contrast that or layer that with what Tim said at the start,
0:24:50that the MacBook Air is the 13 and the 15 above the best-selling products in the product class,
0:24:55as you say, I think it's just people know that they like the MacBook Air
0:25:01and if they want to get an iPad, it is helpful for them to see the same name
0:25:06because it indicates maybe what product they're actually looking for.
0:25:11So I do think that there is a value to it and Air just means what it means.
0:25:17It doesn't necessarily mean the latest.
0:25:19And I will say, speaking of what we're talking about names, just to say this again,
0:25:23I know I've said it a few times here,
0:25:25the 13-inch iPad Air is literally the same size of the 12.9-inch iPad Pro of the previous generation.
0:25:32Generations, literally the same size.
0:25:35Apple's policy about naming iPad sizes has changed to be simpler.
0:25:40It's the thing we asked about a long time ago, but just to be clear again,
0:25:44it's not subtly larger in some way.
0:25:47It's not.
0:25:48It's just that they're going to simplify the names
0:25:50because the new 13-inch iPad Pro is a different size a little bit.
0:25:55And it doesn't, like forget about it.
0:25:58I was going to say as well, on the comparison, like to compare iPads,
0:26:03it says for the iPad Air 13-inch, measured diagonally as a rectangle,
0:26:08the 13-inch iPad Air is 12.9 inches.
0:26:11Actual viewable area is less, which is a hilarious sentence.
0:26:16The 13-inch iPad Air is 12.9 inches.
0:26:19That is very funny to see written down, but I'm thankful that they did it.
0:26:22We are rounding up. Don't sue us.
0:26:23I'm thankful that they did it because it may…
0:26:25It's clear this way.
0:26:26You may as well just call it that. It just makes sense.
0:26:28They do rounding up and rounding down displays all the time.
0:26:31Yes, they do.
0:26:32So I'm very happy to see this actually.
0:26:34It makes things nice and simple. Nice and simple indeed.
0:26:38And the iPad line, I guess, has now become a little bit clearer.
0:26:44We have the iPad Mini, we have the iPad,
0:26:47and then we have iPad Air and iPad Pro at 11 and 13.
0:26:51And both in two sizes.
0:26:53Mm-hmm. And a variety of colors.
0:26:56A variety of hues is maybe a better way to put this.
0:27:01Did you… I mean, in my hands-on time,
0:27:04I was basically exclusively playing around with the iPad Pro.
0:27:07Did you look at the iPad Air very much?
0:27:10Well, sure, but it's just an iPad Pro from yesterday.
0:27:14I have one here. I have my 11.9-inch M1 iPad Air with me right now.
0:27:22And it's the same. I mean, basically. It's basically the same.
0:27:27Yeah.
0:27:28In terms of the physical shape and size and all that feels just the same.
0:27:32Mm-hmm.
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0:28:46So let's talk about the iPad Pro and the M4 chips.
0:28:53Yeah, let's do it. What a thing.
0:28:56Do you want to start with the M4 or do you want to start talking about the iPads?
0:28:59Where do you want to go with this?
0:29:01Oh, let's start with the M4.
0:29:04Okay. So it was kind of funny to me because I was thinking back to last week's episode
0:29:09where we talked ourselves into it and I feel like for good reason in the end.
0:29:16Yeah, I mean like literally I think we got it.
0:29:21I think we parsed out based on this bizarre assertion from Mark Gurman at the last minute.
0:29:27I definitely have heard from people inside Apple who are like, "Oh, we held that one so close to the vest for so long."
0:29:33And then Mark Gurman blows it right before the event.
0:29:36But it is -- okay, I think we were right.
0:29:41Like they made it clear. They even called it out in the presentation that this is a new 3-nanometer process.
0:29:49Yes.
0:29:50And so if you think about it, what this is -- and again, this didn't happen 3 months ago or 6 months ago.
0:29:56This happened probably a year or two ago.
0:29:59Apple and TSMC, who makes their chips for them, were talking about the processes for their new 3-nanometer nodes.
0:30:07And there's the one that was going to come sooner but wasn't going to stick around and the one that they were going to move to.
0:30:13And the M4 is very clearly the chip that was designed for the one they're going to move to.
0:30:20And so I think Apple and TSMC -- and this is just me reading between the lines a little bit --
0:30:25but I think it's very clear that this was the strategy.
0:30:28M3 is going to be based on this process and then we're going to cut over to M4 on the new process.
0:30:34And there are lots of benefits to that.
0:30:36And that's the one that TSMC is going to be using going forward.
0:30:40And so here we are where you see an iPad Air with an M2.
0:30:46It feels like the M3 and that whole generation are just not going to stick around too long
0:30:52because they are on this kind of more fraught and more expensive original first-generation 3-nanometer process.
0:31:00Whereas this M4 is on the new generation, which goes to the thing that I think we speculated about last week,
0:31:06which is maybe this is why Mark Gurman reported that everything is going to move to the M4.
0:31:10It's like they want to get everything off of the M3.
0:31:13So they're going to jump to the M4 and here is the start of it.
0:31:17I'll also say it is my understanding that, and you can see it in some of the video details too,
0:31:24but the specific work in the M4 that enables the display on the iPad Pro,
0:31:34that tandem OLED display has, and I think they did call it out in the video,
0:31:44there's a new display controller on the M4.
0:31:47It is capable of driving that iPad Pro display and the M3 was not.
0:31:55Bottom line, the M3 was not.
0:31:57So this is what we're left with. This is all part of the plan.
0:32:02The M4 enables this processor.
0:32:04In fact, I would go so far as to say the M4 is the thing that,
0:32:09like if Apple was relying on a third-party chip supplier like Intel,
0:32:15this kind of product maybe can't happen or would have a huge amount of run-up time
0:32:21because they would have to beg Intel to build special custom things in
0:32:24so they could build a particular kind of product.
0:32:27And so, yeah, I think that's the story.
0:32:29Is the M4 why now? And the answer is because this product can't exist without it.
0:32:33Yeah, I saw it. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot and I've been mentioning it every now and then.
0:32:38And I feel like this product is another example of it.
0:32:41I think Apple does not have a pattern when it comes to Apple Silicon.
0:32:46There has not been one.
0:32:47They keep doing things that seem strange, like every time we think we understand it,
0:32:53they do something else, right?
0:32:54So it's like, oh, we will launch the M1 first and then it's going to go to Pro chips.
0:33:00And then later on, we'll launch the Pro chip version of a chip first
0:33:03and then we'll put the regular one in some other products.
0:33:05And then we'll go this way, then we'll go that way on the M4.
0:33:08It's going to be in an iPad first.
0:33:10It just feels like they are using and deploying the technology when and where they need it.
0:33:15As needed. I think that's exactly right.
0:33:17Rather than just waiting to fit some kind of pattern for each generation.
0:33:22Do I think, as Germin has reported, do I think that Apple's ultimate goal is to do M chips on a yearly cycle?
0:33:29I do. I do think that that's the ultimate goal.
0:33:32But it doesn't always work that way, right?
0:33:34And this is an example where I think we can intuit that Apple wanted to get off of the first generation 3nm process at TSMC.
0:33:43It gave them first 3nm chips shipping in bulk and they got to boast about that and they got to do that for the M3.
0:33:51But it wasn't going to be the process that TSMC was building on going forward.
0:33:56And they knew that and they certainly knew that in advance.
0:33:59So you take the opportunity to go to M4 now and you build in the display controller that will enable this iPad Pro and maybe other products too.
0:34:11Who knows, right?
0:34:13There may be things in that chip that we don't even know about yet.
0:34:16Because there's no product attached to it. It's only one product.
0:34:19We don't understand the speed of it, really.
0:34:22Well, yeah, it's hard to say.
0:34:25So some other things about this. The CPU is a little bit different from the M3.
0:34:32Apple doesn't want to talk about the M3 compared to the M4.
0:34:35And part of that is because they really want to focus on the difference between the M2 and the M4 because that's where the iPad Pro goes.
0:34:42And the argument is you can't really compare an M3 and a MacBook Air and an M4 and an iPad Pro
0:34:51because they're different enclosures and they've got different cooling and they've got different thermal dynamics
0:34:55and there's all these things that are different about them.
0:34:57And that's true. That all said, also if you run a synthetic benchmark on an M2 in an iPad and in a MacBook Air, you get the same score, more or less.
0:35:06So I think some of it is them not wanting to make those comparisons.
0:35:09And part of it is that I understand they have their reasons for doing it.
0:35:14And fair enough, but my understanding is that the CPU cores are a little bit different.
0:35:19They're not necessarily like a super next generation CPU core, but they are a little bit different.
0:35:26And the GPU cores they're boasting about are the M3.
0:35:31Again, my understanding is basically what we got in M3.
0:35:34They talk about, "Oh, well look at all these things that it can't do and it's so much better at GPU than the old iPad Pro."
0:35:39What they're talking about is all that stuff that we talked about for the M3, where they're able to do a bunch of rendering stuff
0:35:45and a bunch of memory management on the chip level.
0:35:50And it was all part of that, like, what's new in the M3.
0:35:53But of course, the iPad Pro didn't have an M3, so they pick up all of that stuff too.
0:35:58And then the display controller is a great example.
0:36:00Again, and they also, I think they made some modifications to the neural engine too, which, AI, everybody cares about AI,
0:36:08but there's some advanced changes to the neural engine as well.
0:36:15And I'm kind of emptying my notebook here, but another note that I wanted to throw out there is the M4 neural engine thing.
0:36:28Apple, just to put this in perspective, Apple has been shipping, not working on, shipping neural engines in their chips for seven years,
0:36:41which is a point of pride with them when people say, "Oh, Apple's behind on AI."
0:36:45They're like, "Seven years."
0:36:47And what the chip team does is look at what the papers are about machine learning, AI research, and try to skate where the puck is going.
0:36:58But obviously, there's two or three years of lag time there because they have to do chip design processes and all of that.
0:37:04So my understanding is that there's some more support for quantized machine learning models,
0:37:12basically smaller models that use less memory, like 8-bit models instead of 16-bit models.
0:37:16They saw that coming a few years ago, and so there's better support for that in the neural engine this time around.
0:37:222017, when they started shipping neural engine, is actually when the first Transformer model paper happened.
0:37:28And so that was the case where they looked at that and they were shipping their first neural engine.
0:37:33They're like, "Oh, geez, Transformer models, that's interesting," and so started planning that.
0:37:38So I think the people inside of the neural engine team at Apple are very focused on where the cutting edge of machine learning and AI research is going,
0:37:47but they've also been shipping neural engines for seven years, and every one of them is better and faster and more impressive, and that continues.
0:37:55And they're proud of that.
0:37:57And it's one of the things that makes it, I think, I mean, it bugs me, and I'm sure it infuriates them when people say that Apple's not paying attention to AI or just started paying attention six months ago.
0:38:07Also, oh, another little mention about the cores.
0:38:10One of the things I think that's happening on the CPU core side is that there's some stuff that they're doing to enable certain machine learning tasks that are small
0:38:21that would not benefit speed-wise from throwing them off into the neural engine or the GPU.
0:38:28One of the tricks you can do on a computer core is have a specialized command, a specialized area that will just do a thing.
0:38:40It's like how they've got the ProRes encoders on there.
0:38:44It's just built in. It's like, well, ProRes video encoding, it's just kind of baked into the chip.
0:38:48Well, I think they have some of those in the CPUs as well, and the idea there is that you don't have to throw those out to the neural engine or the GPU.
0:38:57Some smaller machine learning tasks will now run better on the M4.
0:39:02Honestly, these chips now are a big stew of a bunch of different features.
0:39:10What's the CPU? What's the GPU? What's the neural engine? What else is going on? What custom blocks are there?
0:39:14What's the memory, and how's that structured?
0:39:17The answer, as far as I can see on day one here at least, is that the M4 is more than the M3.
0:39:23But in some areas it's not much more, and in other areas it is much more.
0:39:27But it's different. What we've learned about how TSMC and their different fabs and their different processes work is,
0:39:37you couldn't just copy and paste the M3 onto an M4.
0:39:41So they did have to do a new chip design.
0:39:43And just as with the M2 to the M3 or the M1 to the M2, parts of it are more changed than other parts of it.
0:39:49And that's just how it is.
0:39:51This part of the presentation was presented by an actual friend of the show, Tim Millet.
0:39:55We've heard on the show a few times.
0:39:57I know, friend of the show. I was very excited to see Tim Millet.
0:40:01And Tim was talking a lot about the neural engine and how they're known as NPUs now.
0:40:10And that Apple, he says they have the most powerful one because they've been doing it for a long time.
0:40:15Like it's like a neural processing unit on another system on a chip is what I'm mistaken that away from.
0:40:21Like if you build a specific thing for machine learning.
0:40:26Well, because this is the thing, right?
0:40:28Like you're saying about Apple's and dah, dah, dah.
0:40:30Because it was called machine learning up until 18 months ago.
0:40:32We've been here for years, I think was the line in the video.
0:40:35And look, there's some pride going on here.
0:40:37They feel wounded by the, "Oh, Apple's missed it on AI. They're way behind."
0:40:41And certainly on the chip side, they're like, "No, we've been shipping machine learning stuff for seven years."
0:40:48I mean, again, you see the benefit of Apple designing its own chips here.
0:40:52Because the reason that the neural engine exists is because there were some basic things that Apple needed to do.
0:40:58Like the photos app, right?
0:41:00Like the photos app needed to process or the camera app in order to do, you know, photometric stuff.
0:41:07The camera app needed some machine learning capability.
0:41:10And they're like, "Okay, we can start to build that in."
0:41:12And so they started to, you know, they had an iPhone need.
0:41:16And then Face ID at the same time was the thing where they needed to do facial recognition.
0:41:21And that was a thing that really needed an ML model.
0:41:24And they had the ability to say, "Okay, let's build in some custom silicon in our chip that will support that."
0:41:31And that started them down the road to there.
0:41:33So, you know, they were driven by product and not by hype.
0:41:38And they have been building on this.
0:41:39And like, are there areas where they're behind some of their competitors?
0:41:43Possibly. But, you know, the neural engine's been shipping for seven years.
0:41:47There's no doubt that they've been paying attention on that side.
0:41:50And I think it's an advantage for them.
0:41:51I think it's a dedicated advantage that they're only now, you know, some of it is really, like we said last week, it's marketing.
0:41:58It's changing how they refer to it.
0:41:59They always refer to it as machine learning.
0:42:01And now they're like, "Okay, fine. AI. Fine. There it is. AI."
0:42:06They were touting the power efficiency of this M4 chip from previous iPads and also against the rest of the PC industry.
0:42:15Thin and light PC laptops.
0:42:17Yeah. I mean, we will talk about, obviously, what they've done around the physical dimensions of this device.
0:42:22But clearly, like, I was wondering, like, "Oh, they're going to talk about increased battery life here."
0:42:27But I think where they were actually driving to is, "Oh, we can make this new iPad Pro so thin because it's now so much more power efficient."
0:42:33Yeah.
0:42:34They are still solving for 10-hour battery life.
0:42:36Yeah.
0:42:37Right? Like, they have not changed that target at all.
0:42:39But what they are able to do is make the processor more efficient and also look at how the design fits into it.
0:42:46They put a couple of layers of graphite and they put copper on the Apple logo.
0:42:50Oh, my God. I love that.
0:42:51And the whole idea there.
0:42:52The Apple logo is a heat sink now.
0:42:53Yeah.
0:42:54Incredible. Incredible.
0:42:55Yeah. And that way they can run faster, longer.
0:42:59Because the reason you do that is you want to radiate out heat because there's no fan in this thing.
0:43:04You want to be able to radiate out heat and continue to run it at higher performance for longer.
0:43:09And so they end up with their comparison being they can offer the same performance as the M2 using half the power.
0:43:17And they can offer the same performance as a thin and light PC laptop using a quarter of the power.
0:43:22Mm-hmm.
0:43:23So, I mean, those are Apple favorable numbers, of course, but I think it shows you that they continue to have a great deal of pride in the energy characteristics of their chips.
0:43:35That the goal is not just speed. It's speed per watt, basically.
0:43:41Like, they want to be able to be energy efficient as well.
0:43:44We say definitely.
0:43:45So in this iPad lineup, in the iPad Pro lineup where the M4 is featured, there is a little chip binning going on again.
0:43:53So if you get the 256 or 512 versions of the iPad Pro, you will get a nine-core CPU, which features three performance cores instead of four, and the six efficiency cores.
0:44:06You also just get eight gigabytes of RAM in that, which Apple lists.
0:44:09Right.
0:44:10Which is wild.
0:44:11Yeah.
0:44:12And you will get the full four and six if you get the one or two terabyte models, and you'll also get 16 gigabytes of RAM.
0:44:20Now, my assumption here, because this isn't the first time that Apple has had a different amount of RAM in a one terabyte iPad Pro.
0:44:29They've done this before, and when pushed, they've answered that they have different amounts for being able to run the USB controllers and to be able to access the storage and da-da-da-da.
0:44:39And it enabled things like apps like Procreate could have more layers on the one terabyte version because it had more RAM.
0:44:47My expectation here is that they are doing this for AI-related stuff down the line, that they are talking about RAM in the iPad, which is a thing that they have never done before.
0:44:58And I find that kind of interesting.
0:45:00I don't know if you have a different perspective on it at all.
0:45:03Well, essentially they are differentiating between the low and the high end for a lot of things, and it allows them to put the higher capacity stuff in the more expensive ones.
0:45:16The nano texture display option on the iPad Pro is also only available on the top two models.
0:45:22Yeah.
0:45:23Same thing.
0:45:24And the idea there is, if you're a professional user of the iPad Pro at the high end, you want more RAM, you want more storage, you might want nano texture.
0:45:34It's all there for you, but we're not going to make that available at the base price because it's too much to put in the base price, and they want the base price to look good.
0:45:43So it scales.
0:45:45And so binning, having one performance core down, so be it.
0:45:54Also, please note, the M3 was what, four and four? And the M4 is four and six.
0:46:02There are now six efficiency cores.
0:46:04What would that tell you?
0:46:06The increase in efficiency cores, what would that be for?
0:46:11Apple really is proud of their efficiency cores and says that they're not bad cores, they're really, really, really good cores, and it allows them to turn them on and off and only go to the performance when they need to.
0:46:21And it's all part of the fine tuning of battery efficiency and performance on these systems.
0:46:26So we'll presumably see that in Macs at some point down the road and we'll see what they do there.
0:46:32But yeah, I do think it's interesting that they continue to differentiate without differentiating.
0:46:37They're differentiating based on essentially storage, but it's not just that, right? It's RAM and storage.
0:46:43But you can't mix and match. You either get the low RAM, low storage configuration, or you get the high RAM, high storage configuration.
0:46:50Those are your choices.
0:46:52But I get it because RAM is expensive.
0:46:55And also on the iPad, a little bit unclear.
0:46:59I'm sure there are lots of things that will work better with more memory, but memory management on the iPad is intended to be kind of opaque.
0:47:10Yeah, you're not really supposed to think about it, which is why it's weird for me to see it.
0:47:17I just think it is a weird thing to see now that they're doing.
0:47:22Like, oh, we're going to tell you what's in there.
0:47:25It's just peculiar, but interesting, like most of these things are.
0:47:29I always want to know when there's something new.
0:47:32Should we talk about the iPad Pro itself now?
0:47:35Yeah, sure. I mean, we've obliquely touched on it, but yeah, the product that the chip is inside of.
0:47:42Let's do it.
0:47:43So the 11 and 13, they are both significantly thinner and lighter than the models that they replaced.
0:47:48The 13-inch iPad Pro is the thinnest Apple product ever. They even showed it off next to the iPod Nano, which was an incredible thing.
0:47:56However, I believe if I'm correct, the previous one was also thinner than the iPod Nano, but they wanted to just show it off.
0:48:03But it's thinner than the iPad Pro that it replaces.
0:48:08Honestly, it's incredible.
0:48:10Like the way these devices feel is bananas.
0:48:16I don't really think realistically that they can get thinner than this because you've got maybe a couple of millimeters at most that you could go thinner before you can't plug in a USB anymore.
0:48:30And actually, in one of the demos that we got to see, the Pro app demo, they had a Thunderbolt cable plugged into the iPad Pro.
0:48:40And the Thunderbolt, you get like housing around the USB connector.
0:48:47I don't know of a better word to call it, the plastic part basically.
0:48:50It was thicker than the iPad Pro.
0:48:52So like, you know, we're going to the absolute thinness level here.
0:48:58But in the hand, these products are wild.
0:49:03They're wild.
0:49:04It's really very impressive.
0:49:06Well, I mean, they dropped the larger iPad Pro dropped a quarter of a pound in weight.
0:49:13And that is, I mean, let's be serious here.
0:49:16That is changing displays.
0:49:18I think primarily I think that that the old mini LED backlight, like I think it was thick and heavy.
0:49:26And once it was out and they went to OLED, they were able to make the whole product thinner and lighter.
0:49:31And so they did.
0:49:32And so, yeah, the 13 inch is actually thinner than the 11 inch, which is wild.
0:49:40And they're both really light.
0:49:43Very light.
0:49:44And I mean, yeah, as somebody who holds an iPad Pro in his hand every day, it is pretty impressive what they did.
0:49:53Because I thought, how could it really get smaller?
0:49:56And I know there were all those rumors out there that they were going to get thinner and lighter.
0:50:00And I mean, they did it.
0:50:01They totally did it.
0:50:02I do.
0:50:03I share your feeling that I'm not sure how much more they can shave off because there's still glass and there's still the display technology.
0:50:11But this is a big step.
0:50:14They may never be able to make it this much smaller again.
0:50:17And like holding the 13 was like, oh, because I've been I've been waiting for these.
0:50:23I wanted to know that iPad Pro.
0:50:25I've wanted one for for a little bit now.
0:50:28And I was sat on the 11 in my mind, like that's what I want size wise.
0:50:33That's perfect for me.
0:50:34But holding the 13 is like, oh boy, you're actually you're nice to hold.
0:50:38I will be going 11.
0:50:40But I was it was very tempting to think about the 13 inch iPad Pro because now really it's just because I don't want that size screen.
0:50:49It's just screen size.
0:50:50Like from the way the way this thing feels to hold is kind of incredible.
0:50:56Both of them. But the 13, especially because it's the most surprising, like when you hold it in your hand, it just doesn't really feel like as much of anything.
0:51:05I have thought about switching from the 13 to the 11 or 12.9 to the 11.
0:51:11And I'm not sure I really want to give up the screen size as as nice as would be to have a lighter iPad.
0:51:21But I will say this and we'll get to the smart keyboard in a little bit.
0:51:25But typing on the smart keyboard on the 13 is better than on the 11.
0:51:31It's just that the keyboard on the 11 feels cramped to me in a way that the 13 doesn't.
0:51:35But the 11 is just so small.
0:51:38It's so nice.
0:51:40And you put it in that smart keyboard and you close it up and it's like a little tiny laptop that Apple doesn't make.
0:51:46But there it is. They actually do make it.
0:51:47It's an iPad with a keyboard.
0:51:50OLED so nice.
0:51:51They gave you twice.
0:51:53The tandem OLED that is part of the ultra retina XDR display.
0:51:58It is two OLED panels that they put on top of each other to make sure they can hit the brightness levels that they wanted.
0:52:06Because OLED has brightness issues.
0:52:08Yeah.
0:52:09A thousand nits of brightness for 1600 nits at peak HDR.
0:52:13Yeah. It's impressive.
0:52:15And ProMotion of course. And I would say a little more color about the display controller and how it's worked here.
0:52:24What's not happening is it's not drawing.
0:52:27You know, the chip isn't like processing and drawing every pixel twice.
0:52:32That's not really what's happening.
0:52:34But the thing that the display controller has to do is deal with calibration.
0:52:39So the way OLED calibration works, not every every OLED emitter, um, emits the same.
0:52:47There's some variance in brightness and the calibration process creates a map of how you adjust each pixel so that they display consistently.
0:52:59So that if you've got a big span of red, it all looks consistently red and not blotchy.
0:53:05Which might happen if you have some of those reds are brighter and some of those reds are darker. Right?
0:53:11Yeah.
0:53:12So that's where you need a new display controller because this thing has to take those adjustments on every single pixel of the dual OLED display at 120 frames a second.
0:53:27Because it's ProMotion.
0:53:29And that is happening in the background in real time.
0:53:33It just happens. But that's the kind of thing that that it is my understanding.
0:53:38Previous chips could not do that. They were not possible.
0:53:41And that that is one of the ways that this iPad demanded that it be on an M4.
0:53:47Sometimes, like obviously on this show, inherent in doing this show, there is an element of like, we are fans and we love Apple products. Right?
0:54:01That's why we are in this position.
0:54:04That's why we care. Right.
0:54:05And when I see something like this, I'm like, this is why?
0:54:10Like that they're like, well, we want to put OLED in, which is better, but it won't be bright enough. And that's not good enough.
0:54:17So we have to create a new technology.
0:54:21Yeah. And put a new thing that we put on a chip.
0:54:23Yeah.
0:54:24We designed so that we can do this.
0:54:26I was like, oh, you guys, you know, it's like you, you just keep doing it.
0:54:30I just, it's incredible. I find it so impressive.
0:54:32If you remember back when they did the 5K retina and they did the whole thing about like the T-Con and the whole idea of like how they had to build a custom thing in order to get the video to work at 5K retina.
0:54:44But that was like at this high, high level.
0:54:46And I mean, it's incredibly inefficient. Like this is the, this is the beauty of controlling your own Silicon and not having it be like on an Intel system or, or where you have to kind of hack into it at a high level because you can't have access to the low level.
0:55:00The, you want to talk legacy nodes, the T-Con stuff, you know, you're talking about chips that are running, they're like a hundred nanometer nodes and it's wildly inefficient.
0:55:12When if you built it into the chip, you know, you could be on a three nanometer chip to do that work at the level where you can do it all kind of like properly.
0:55:21And the math is correct, is exactly correct. And you can do all of that adjustment.
0:55:25So it's like, that's a contrast, right? Where it was like before they could do stuff that was innovative, but they kind of had to hack it and it was going to use more power and it was going to be less efficient.
0:55:35And now today's Apple with Apple Silicon, they do a lot of like call up Johnny and his boys and we're going to put this in and it's a team effort, right?
0:55:45It's obviously, it's not just like there are iPad display people who call Johnny Srouji and say, I need, or Tim Malet and are like, can I have this thing?
0:55:53It's a, it's a collaborative effort, but this is the result is that Apple gets to have a vision for where they want to push a product.
0:56:00And instead of, and look, there are, there are lots of pros and cons of, of a lot of things that Apple does.
0:56:07But like, I think I would say this is why Apple does stuff that the rest of the industry doesn't do from time to time is that a lot of the computer industry is taking parts off a shelf.
0:56:17And sometimes they work with the chip maker and that, you know, to build in a little custom thing.
0:56:23Apple used to do that at the first Mac book air processor was a collaboration with Intel because Apple needed some things that Intel wasn't offering.
0:56:31And so they worked together on it and it was kind of not a very good chip, but it got better over time.
0:56:36But if you design your own chips and build your own hardware, guess what?
0:56:41You can build things into the chips that enable a hardware and you can't do that if you're just taking parts off of a shelf.
0:56:47Now, the downside is if Apple doesn't prioritize your feature, like having multiple external displays, you're just out of luck, right?
0:56:56Because that was an Intel feature and Apple didn't prioritize it.
0:57:00But it does get you things like this where Apple just says, we need this and so we're going to build it.
0:57:06And so they build it in and now the M4, I don't know if any other product in the M4 that ends up using the M4 will need this display controller.
0:57:14We'll see, but it's here. Since it's a display controller, it does make me wonder if the display capabilities of M4 Macs will also be superior
0:57:25because they souped up the display controller in the base M4. Maybe, but at least today the reason is so the iPad Pro could exist with an OLED display like this.
0:57:36So this display on the 1TB and 2TB models for $100 upgrade, you can get a nano texture.
0:57:44Now this was surprising to me. We'd heard about the potential matte display, but they called it nano texture because nano texture is what is on some of the studio displays and the pro display.
0:57:57And Apple has previously described it as they like etch into the glass and you're not supposed to touch those.
0:58:03Don't touch it. So it's like, well this is a surprise. So I was told that this nano texture display is created by chemically altering the glass.
0:58:17Oh, interesting. That's what I was told. That's how they get this look on the...
0:58:22They built it specifically for the iPad is my understanding as well so that it will survive fingerprints and survive Apple pencil.
0:58:34Two things that just a Mac display don't need to deal with, but then an iPad display does.
0:58:41Two things that will destroy a Mac display. I don't know if you looked at it, but I looked at one and all those beautiful contrast ratio and all the dark blacks of OLED are gone, are ruined, I would say by the nano texture.
0:58:58Nano texture does that thing where everything is a little bit more foggy, but it means that you can work in very bright light and there's no reflection on the glass.
0:59:06And that's the way Apple pitches it. Apple says, this is why it's on the high end systems. I was told, I think very clearly, this is an option for pros who are out in the field.
0:59:19But I think even Apple would say, most people should not get this. It really is for like, if you know if you absolutely need a nano texture iPad, but most people are probably not going to want it.
0:59:32Under regular lighting, it looked fine to me, but you move it a little bit and something looks weird. Like it just like all of a sudden it's like, it's like light, it's like surreal light is hitting it, but not bouncing, but you can see that light is hitting it.
0:59:50So like the colors change. It's very peculiar, but yes, I would say that do not get this unless you know you need this. If you don't already know you need this, don't do this.
1:00:04If you're an artist or a director of photography or a film editor or something who's using an iPad out in the fields in bad lighting situations where you've got huge glare issues and all that, you should buy this.
1:00:16Everybody else, you should not buy this because it will make the OLED not as good and it's not necessary. It's just not, especially for a mobile device where probably in most cases, unless you're in extreme environments, you could just move a little bit and not have the glare anymore.
1:00:34I would say this was better than I expected. It looks better to me than any Paperlike or any of these things that I've seen. Just visually, what it did to the display was less of an impact than any screen addition that I've seen before.
1:00:53But it didn't make me feel like I needed it. I was just like, "Oh, okay, but I want to get the best out of OLED." And so for that, I will get the regular one.
1:01:04I agree.
1:01:05So let's talk about the accessories. So we have the Apple Pencil Pro. So these are the things that it can do. There is now a squeeze gesture that has a haptic, which will allow you to in certain apps invoke some kind of menu.
1:01:20Like in the Notes app or wherever Pencil Kit is used, it brings up a little wheel of tools that you can select from.
1:01:27Right, including a multi-step undo, which is pretty awesome. You tap the undo button and then you can circle around and go back, back, back, back, back a bunch of steps, which is just a really smart thing. I like that a lot.
1:01:40And then it can be customized. That wheel can be, or that squeeze gesture can invoke anything if an app wants to override it.
1:01:47And then you can also enable a barrel roll, which is a feature enabled by a new gyroscope. So you can, this enables, this is another thing that can enable a bunch of things depending on the app.
1:02:01So you can have a little bit of a twist. So you can have a little bit of a twist. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app. And you can have a little bit of a twist in the app. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app. You can have a little bit of a twist in the app.
1:02:21So super cool. But this was the thing that I was trying to think about. Now, the current Apple Pencil, it had something, a tilt, it could recognize tilt, but I guess it could not recognize you twirling the pencil in your hand.
1:02:37Yeah, exactly. You can put it down and then spin the pencil as you go and it will move, it will rotate the brush or whatever. Yeah, I saw a demo where there was like a twirl effect that was going on. You could put down and then twirl and it would distort that part of the image.
1:02:54So we'll see how people use it. It's interesting. I think the one that I immediately thought of is calligraphers, calligraphy pens that have this, they're not square, they're not round, they're long. And there's a hole with calligraphy, like you use the long part and the short part depending on detail.
1:03:15And you could do that now with an Apple Pencil Pro. That will work. Did you feel the haptic? Yes, it's incredible. It's good. It's very much like the haptic track pads that you think are moving but aren't moving. It's absolutely it. You think you're squeezing it, or AirPods.
1:03:33You think you're squeezing it and you're not squeezing it but it feels like you're squeezing it. The actual gesture area is about a third of the Apple Pencil which I thought was cool. You don't have to hold it in a specific area. Exactly right.
1:03:48The haptic, you feel it when you squeeze like an AirPod. So if you do the squeeze gesture, you feel it as if you've squeezed it and it's clicked. It's when your Mac's forced on the Pencil. The haptic engine or the haptic can be used by applications to suggest that an action has been done.
1:04:09This is just like on the Mac on the track pad. It's this idea so that if you're dragging out and you hit a snap boundary, it can go "bip" and you feel like you've reached the snap and then you can move beyond it. You can optionally give it that sort of feedback if you're in app.
1:04:23And it also features hover and double tap like the previous Apple Pencil. Right, they didn't get rid of double tap. It's still there. Unless they fixed it, I still think it activates when I don't want it and when I do want it, it doesn't.
1:04:38But we'll see. And the hover is there. I don't know why double tap exists now that the squeeze thing exists. There must be some things that said people... Some apps are going to have different stuff going on. Right? And so there might be a better way.
1:04:52Some apps already have done double tap as a feature and people will use it and so they don't want to invalidate that and it probably wasn't worth moving it out since that's an accelerometer feature. So where does this leave the Apple Pencil now? The answer is it's complicated but maybe less complicated than it was.
1:05:09So the way I think you should look at it is for every iPad there are two Apple Pencils. There's a cheaper one and a better one that's more expensive. So for the iPad Pro and iPad Air 2024, today's iPads, they will work with the Pencil Pro or the USB-C pencil.
1:05:35And if you're wondering why, the answer is as a part of designing the camera to be on the horizontal side, they had to redesign the magnetic attach and charge of the Apple Pencil. They could do it. Again, this is one of those things where people are like, "Oh, they're not going to be able to do it."
1:05:52They could do it. They're perfectly capable of doing it but it broke compatibility with the Apple Pencil 2 that we all know. So this new one has a different magnetic charge compatibility shape, essentially. The pencil itself looks exactly the same but it's different.
1:06:08So the new iPads work with it. No other iPad works with it. That's the Pencil Pro. Or you can use that USB-C pencil that they came out with last year and that one is the one that charges via USB-C and it doesn't have the barrel roll and the haptic and all that. It's fewer features but it'll be cheaper.
1:06:28And same price, by the way. I know that you might hear Apple Pencil Pro and think it's more expensive but no, it's $129. The same as the Apple Pencil version 2.
1:06:38Version 2, right. USB-C is a little bit cheaper. It's the same price as the one that it is technically replacing for these new iPads.
1:06:44Older iPads might use the Apple Pencil 2 and some iPads use the Apple Pencil USB-C. All iPads can use the Apple Pencil USB-C. Any USB-C iPad supports the Apple Pencil with USB-C. So that's the new kind of default.
1:07:04Right. But the 10th generation iPad uses the Pencil 2. The 10th generation iPad uses the... It currently sells on Apple's website that you would use either Apple Pencil with USB-C or Apple Pencil first generation for the 10th generation.
1:07:21That's what it says on my website right now. I don't know why.
1:07:35Apple Pencil, which is USB-C, and Apple Pencil Pro, which is magnetic attached, magnetic charge, extra features. And those will be the two. But they still have to clear out some iPads to make that happen.
1:07:58I don't know whether they lock them out entirely. Because you can't pair them.
1:08:08So get a new Pencil everybody.
1:08:37The Apple Pencil with USB-C.
1:08:39You can see now that it's all going through. You can see now that in a year as things come off the price list or update. Once they update the iPad Mini and the base iPad, I feel like the Pencil story will be clear. But it's not right now.
1:08:57There is a new Magic Keyboard. It has a refined design. Not new, but not dramatically different.
1:09:09It's less dramatic than I thought. It is not replacing the cantilever with a laptop design. But the cantilever is shorter. So it feels more laptop-y without it actually anchoring. It still covers the whole back of the iPad.
1:09:30It's bottom and top when you close it is the rubberized gray or white material. But a couple of things here.
1:09:39One is, and there are little three dots on the back to attach it and magnetic attach on the back. That's all the same.
1:09:46It's only compatible with this model. There are some physics reasons why that's the case. Because the new iPad Pros are thinner and lighter, it gives them a little bit more room to push it back a little further.
1:10:02There are also some changes like the thing that used to be a round thing with a USB on it. That hinge is now kind of oval. It's kind of pill-shaped. It's a little bit different, but very familiar to the Magic Keyboard that was unveiled in 2020.
1:10:19The trackpad is bigger. There's a function row. Hurray! It's the function row. They got it in there. And the big difference is the keyboard surface is aluminum.
1:10:34The keyboard surface is color matched to the iPad. So when it's open, if you're using the space gray, or sorry, space black, space black now, Mike, it's not space gray. If you're using the space black one, the keyboard is space black. The trackpad is space black.
1:10:52But if you close it, it's still that rubberized gray material. It's just the inside that is color matched.
1:10:59You have around the keyboard tray a very slight rim of rubber, too, so the keyboard will touch the screen less, which would be nice.
1:11:10And then the white one, it's rubberized white on the outside, and then the inside is color matched to the silver metallic. When you're using it, it feels very laptop-like, but when you close it, it looks very iPad-like.
1:11:25So the cantilever is less pronounced now, I think, because the, I don't know why, I guess maybe the weight difference means they don't need to put so much of a balance in.
1:11:37Yeah, that's it. It is lighter, and so they can shift that weight, and lighter and thinner, they can shift the weight back a little bit.
1:11:45They also have changed some of the design a little bit, where the metal part that sits at the back where you can put the USB-C in is more exposed now than on the previous one, where it was wrapped in a material.
1:11:58And pill-shaped.
1:12:00Yeah, it's got a little bit of a, it kind of just sticks out at the back there, which looked strange to me.
1:12:06Yeah, it's a redesign, I mean, like the iPad Pro itself, it is legitimately a redesigned product, but if you were to look at it, you would say, "Oh, I know what that is."
1:12:18It's not redesigned in the sense that you're like, "Oh my God, this is totally unlike the Magic Keyboard was before." No, it is recognizably the Magic Keyboard.
1:12:26It is an evolution of it, but it is not a "let's throw it away and do something completely different" kind of thing. It's a little further back, but it's still got the part that you can tilt, so you can tilt the screen.
1:12:43And they added the function row, and oh, oh, and we didn't mention it, it's got a haptic trackpad. So now when you click the trackpad, it vibrates, it doesn't click, and that actually means that if you're, some people are actually sensitive to the fact that they're sitting in a relatively quiet space going click, click, click every time they click that trackpad. Well, this one just vibrates, so it feels like a click, but it doesn't make that noise anymore.
1:13:09I don't know about you, but I found it really hard to open. I closed it up, and I think it, I don't know if it's maybe stronger magnets, or it's because the iPad Pro is thinner. I found it, and I was watching other people doing the same. You close it, and it's like, it took a little bit of effort to open the iPad with the Magic Keyboard.
1:13:36I will say for me as well, I have not used the Magic Keyboard on an iPad for a long time, and it does add a lot of weight. You have these new incredibly light iPads, and then it's like, oh man. I mean, you know, it's a laptop.
1:13:52And the keyboard is lighter too, right? So the whole package is lighter than it was by a bit, but it's still, you're going from an iPad to a laptop. Mike, honestly, when I take my Smart Folio off of my iPad, just the little wrapper, even that I'm amazed at how much thinner and lighter my iPad Pro feels.
1:14:12The other day, I took it out of the case, and I was like, oh, where have you been hiding? Yeah, so that's going to happen. That's why Apple used to make the covers that were magnetically attached on the side and only covered the front. I mean, that's totally wise, because they wanted it to be lighter.
1:14:27So yeah, I mean, I'd say when you're in laptop mode, judge it as a laptop, and it's going to be thinner and lighter than the old laptop mode. But yeah, the keyboard weighs, even though it's lighter, it's definitely going to weigh it down, and it changes what it is. The beauty of the iPad is you can just pull it off the keyboard.
1:14:46This iPad Pro only has one camera instead of two. It loses the ultra-wide. They have a 12-megapixel wide camera and a LIDAR sensor, which is in place of the ultra-wide. So we've gone back to having a big problem with the LIDAR sensor.
1:15:01Yeah, well, I mean, the LIDAR sensor was there before, but they took out the ultra-wide.
1:15:05Yep, and they have an adaptive true-term flash, which they said make document scanning better, and the front-facing camera is on the landscape edge as well. I saw, I think Halide was posting about this, saying that their expectation, which would make sense, is it is for thinness.
1:15:24Yeah, also, I mean, who knows? I mean, Apple's going to say what Apple's going to say, but it may also be that Apple looked at usage of the iPad Pro cameras and found that the ultra-wide was not necessary.
1:15:40But they did. They took it off. It's an interesting omission. I mean, they must feel strongly, and maybe it is the thinness thing, where it's like, we can make this a lot thinner if we don't have that second camera, and somebody said, "Why do we care about the ultra-wide camera?"
1:15:53Anyway, it's gone. So if you're a big iPad ultra-wider, don't buy this.
1:16:01It looks weird, though, right? Because if you look at both of them, the iPad kind of, the camera on the new iPad Pro compared to the old one, they're kind of laid out very similarly, but things have moved around.
1:16:15It's like they moved the flash to where the LiDAR used to be. They've moved the LiDAR to where one of the cameras used to be, and then there's a microphone and something else.
1:16:24It's interesting to look at it and be like, "It looks the same, but there's different components in there." It's why I didn't notice it at first. It's like, "Oh, you know, it's got a camera on it."
1:16:35I forget that there were multiple cameras on the iPad Pro in that configuration anyway.
1:16:42Yeah, honestly, me too, and I think that says it all.
1:16:46Yeah. Higher starting storage, again, $256, and a higher starting price, $999 starting price for the 11-inch, $1299 for the 13-inch. It's a $200 price increase.
1:17:03Yeah. This was our tiebreaker in the draft where I made you pick above or below $950, and you picked below.
1:17:12It went way above the $950.
1:17:13This is what I thought. I thought that it would be $999 for the base model this time instead of for the big model. So, yeah, $1299.
1:17:23As I was flying out here, I was thinking back to when I was flying back from the Brooklyn event and writing about the 2018 launch of the iPad Pro.
1:17:33I wrote this piece on six colors about the future of the iPad Pro, and I mentioned again that I think that Mac OS is Apple's kind of secret weapon at this point,
1:17:45and that they should put Mac OS on an iPad Pro. They should put Mac OS in Vision OS as an option. I think the Mac is such a powerful thing,
1:17:54and it's no longer the dead end, and it's the future. It is the present and future of computing, and the iPad is no longer the future of computing, but something else.
1:18:03I still feel that way. The reason that I was motivated to say that, and Apple didn't do that today. I'm not surprised. I didn't really expect them to.
1:18:10But the reason I say that is Apple needs to give people a lot of reasons to buy an iPad Pro instead of an iPad Air.
1:18:21That's, to me, that's the thing. And the $1,000 for an 11, $1,299, $1,300 for a 13, and then if you want a keyboard, it's an extra $300.
1:18:37It adds up real quick, and that's fine if you can get value out of it. And I think that Apple today made some good arguments about some of the things that the iPad Pro is great at.
1:18:54It talked about photography. It talked about design. It talked about illustration a whole lot, and some 3D work that you can do in it, and a lot of sort of like creative things you can do with an iPad.
1:19:09And, okay, I'll give them those, especially with the Apple Pencil. I'll give them those.
1:19:15My challenge is that strikes me as being a pretty small slice, and that while they talk about this keyboard, right, and they're like, "Oh, look at this keyboard. There's a guy on the bar train. He's working on numbers."
1:19:29It's like, okay, but the truth is that for, like, I need more reason to buy an iPad Pro over an iPad Air. And right now what you got is OLED, Face ID, and processor power, but really, and ProMotion, right?
1:19:51But really, like, is it compelling enough for a large enough slice, or is that slice a little too small still? Because the, I mean, I'll just, one of my reactions when I was watching this thing.
1:20:06And it was, you know, I have fun, it's a wild ride watching Apple videos, and I had fun watching it all, but I had that moment where they pivoted from the M4 and all the things that are in the M4 that enable the iPad.
1:20:26They pivoted from that to iPad OS, right? And I could feel my soul leaving my body, because the fact is, I still believe that just as it was the case in 2018, Apple is so good at building amazing hardware.
1:20:47That screen, that processor, like, it's amazing. Who could deny it? The power and performance, the battery life, like, all of those things. This product is amazing.
1:21:03And then we get to iPad OS, and it's sort of like, hmm, you know, and I'm not an iPad OS hater, but, like, it is, like, it cannot compare to the hardware work that Apple's doing right now.
1:21:17And if Apple fancies itself that its secret sauce is the fusion of hardware and software working together, the story of the iPad for the last six years, if not longer, is that the software lets down the hardware.
1:21:33And while the software has gotten better, the hardware has gotten a lot better. And I look at this today and I think, there are specific applications that, like, not apps, like, use cases applications that are really remarkable.
1:21:48And Apple knows it, and Apple is calling all of those out. But I keep thinking about how this doesn't really change the conversation where there's a lot of capabilities in iPad OS,
1:21:59but we all know that there's a whole lot of things that iPad OS just can't do. And so now you've got the power of an M4 processor inside that thing. And, like, yeah, you can pay $1200 for one, and it'll be a beautiful movie player.
1:22:14It'll be really expensive, but it'll be a beautiful movie player. You won't be using most of its features, but it will be a beautiful player because of the OLED screen.
1:22:22And I'm not saying iPad OS is an F. I'm saying the hardware is an A. And iPad OS is a, I don't know, C, B, B-. For some things, it's good. For other things, it's still what it is, which is kind of like, there's a bunch of stuff it can't do, and it probably will never be able to do, and it still frustrates me.
1:22:45So I had that moment. That was my moment of sort of sourness in this, is that after that real high of the hardware and the fact that they're still kicking on this, and they've got the tandem OLED, and they've got the M4 out of nowhere with all this stuff in it.
1:22:59And they're like, "And now let's talk about iPad OS." And I was like, "Well, I can see how this is going to go." And it's, I mean, yeah, there's a new version of Final Cut and Logic, and there are some nice features that will also be in the Mac version.
1:23:11But I don't know. It was a letdown, not that I was expecting some kind of amazing iPad OS story. In fact, if they're going to have that story, they should have it at WWDC next month anyway.
1:23:22But it was just a reminder to me of the contrast, not even saying that iPad OS is bad, just saying that Apple is at the top of its game and maybe the game on the hardware side of these products.
1:23:36And then on the software side, you're like, "Oh, yeah, it's the same old story. It's just kind of, it's okay. It's got some stuff it doesn't do, some stuff it does do. It's kind of a big iPad or a big iPhone, a little bit still."
1:23:49I don't know. I don't know what you thought about it, but I just, it was a real, I actually put it in my notes. I'm like, "Oh, the letdown right here." I felt it.
1:23:57Yeah, I mean, I understand it, right? Federico turned to me at the end and he's like, "What do you think? What did you think about all that?" Basically, it was like, I got exactly what I thought we were going to get.
1:24:09I share the desire for Mac virtualization, but I don't really expect we're going to get it. I don't expect it.
1:24:20And I don't want to go overboard about Mac virtualization because Mac virtualization in many ways is my attempt to find a solution to the problem of the iPad.
1:24:29Because the problem of the iPad is at one point it seemed like they were going to drive it toward being the replacement for the Mac.
1:24:35And then at some point they sort of like, they struggled with it and they didn't really get it there. And then they seem to stop trying and decided that the Mac is the future of the Mac.
1:24:44But they don't have a convertible and the iPad Pro does some things well and there are other things that it just doesn't do. And I would be fine if they said, "We're reinvigorating iPad OS in order to do all these things because we don't want it to have the limitations it's got."
1:24:59But instead it feels like they're in this position where they're like, "The Mac's over there and it can do anything you want. And the iPad's over here and it's never really going to do more than it does right now."
1:25:08And so when I bring up something like virtualizing Mac OS when you're in a keyboard and trackpad case in order to just sort of use it as a laptop for a while, it is in some ways an act of desperation.
1:25:20But it's also me trying to find a solution that unlocks the power of that hardware because iPad OS doesn't do it.
1:25:26You were saying about the future of computing and it seemed like it was going down that track and then they changed course. I actually wonder if... I don't know if the iPad changed course. I think that the Apple that was potentially moving towards getting rid of the Mac and replacing it with the iPad maybe wanted the iPad to be just what it is.
1:25:45Well I mean they may have decided that. It felt though like at one point there was a real project of we're going to push a lot of extra features into iPad OS because we want it to be more Mac-like because in the end the Mac is going to kind of fade away.
1:26:00And when they realized with Apple Silicon and I think they decided they were going to not just keep the Mac around as a legacy product but they were going to put it on Apple Silicon and they were going to make the effort to take the underpinnings and get them connected between Mac OS and iPad OS so they're all running the same base system and all of that.
1:26:17They decided to do that. I feel like what probably happened is that the pressure went off iPad OS. It's like, "Oh, you don't have to be more Mac-like now."
1:26:24Yeah, I mean like for me as a user this is what I expected and so I got what I wanted.
1:26:32I would love to see.
1:26:34This is exactly what I think we all expected other than the M4 which is more than we expected in fact.
1:26:38Yeah, but I mean the M4 is still emblematic of what I expect which is the iPad's incredibly powerful and I'm not going to use any of that.
1:26:46Yeah, and this brings back to my point about when I write these articles and stuff I'm not actually criticizing the iPad.
1:26:56I'm criticizing the existence of the iPad Pro because I don't think for most use cases it makes any sense because there are a lot of Pro use cases out there where Pro users might want a convertible but iPad OS can't do it for them.
1:27:13So you're left with this narrow slice of creative cases with Apple pencil and it's 3D and even Apple struggles a little bit to be like, "What's a creative use that also requires the power of an M4 processor?"
1:27:24And as the iPad Air gets better and is a lot cheaper I feel like I have to have that question which is like, "Okay, I love the iPad. I think the iPad Air is really good.
1:27:36What are the things that justify the existence of the iPad Pro and justify its price?" And that's where I just start to struggle a little bit because Apple has built it.
1:27:46They built it, right? They built the amazing machine but now to what end? And sometimes I get frustrated because I feel like there is no what end there.
1:27:58Hey, Jason, maybe AI. AI is going to save the day.
1:28:02You're going to need it for all the AI that you're going to be doing. Okay, alright, fine, fair, fair.
1:28:07I do want to talk about real quick an actual real incredible Pro use case that I saw today which was the Final Cut Pro 2 and the Final Cut Camera app with Multi View.
1:28:19Yes, yes, yes, yes.
1:28:21So I got to see a demo of them actually. They set up a bunch of cameras and they were doing like a here's a product walkthrough and the product manager was showing us how it worked.
1:28:32And it was really very impressive. They had like these four.
1:28:36Three iPhones.
1:28:37Yes, three or four iPhones and then they had the iPad which was bringing in, it was like getting all of the files, they were like streaming to it as reference files.
1:28:46And you're able to multi-cam, like edit, like do a very quick edit but you can also change all of the settings of all of the cameras wirelessly and independently of each other.
1:28:59So they built, yeah, they built this camera app to run on the iPhone or the iPad and it will work in standalone mode.
1:29:07It's kind of like the Blackmagic camera or one of those apps. It's like it's got a lot of advanced features for capturing video.
1:29:13But one of the killer features is if you're attached to an iPad running Final Cut, you can remote control those cameras.
1:29:22So they had one that was mounted, I assume this is the case for you too, that was mounted like high up looking down on the table.
1:29:28So you can't control that iPhone from up there but it can control it remotely.
1:29:33And then the previews are being streamed live over, I think it's an ad hoc Wi-Fi connection and they're obviously they're lower resolution but they're streaming resolution.
1:29:45And then you can start shooting and you can multi-cam that way and you can adjust them even on the fly, you can change the focus, you can do all those things.
1:29:53And then at the end when you're done, it will, it's a little like those podcast and video apps where they catch up at the end.
1:30:01Like when you're done, those apps will continue streaming the full quality video to the iPad so that in the end the iPad can walk away with the whole project, which is also smart, right?
1:30:14So there's a proxy that is the low quality streamed version and then it backfills it with the full quality version and puts that in the project, which is super clever and super smart.
1:30:24And I also, one of the people in our group asked about Apple IDs 'cause they're like, do these all have to be on the same Apple ID?
1:30:33And the person said, no, because you probably don't wanna buy four iPhones, you're probably bringing a bunch of people's iPhones.
1:30:38And that's fine 'cause you can do an authentication thing where you basically say trust this iPhone and you say yes and then they talk to each other and you can have multi-cam that way.
1:30:48It's very clever. - Very cool.
1:30:49- Very clever and this is, I believe, a feature that's not gonna be on Final Cut Pro for the Mac because they're doing, most of the logic and Final Cut features that they announced are coming to updates to the Mac versions as well, but I think this particular one is iPad only.
1:31:02- I thought that was like, I looked at it and I was like, oh, that's really cool.
1:31:06- Yeah, it's smart.
1:31:07- These iPads are available next Wednesday, which is a very weird day to me. Wednesday.
1:31:13- Hmm.
1:31:14- So you can order them now and they ship on Wednesday.
1:31:17It's like, okay, Wednesday. It's usually these things are Fridays, right? Like just the middle of next week you can get them.
1:31:23- Yeah, they just said next week on the slides.
1:31:25- Yes, the 15th of May.
1:31:26- I was sitting behind a couple of product reviewers who looked at each other and swore and I laughed because-
1:31:30- Yep, it's even worse 'cause this was the thing where like Federico's like, okay, next Friday. It's like, no, next Wednesday is when they're available to the public.
1:31:38- Yeah.
1:31:39- This episode is brought to you by Vitally.
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1:33:03So I put the call out to the Upgradients that if they had questions that we could answer to send them in to askupgrade.
1:33:13*imitates airpods* iPad edition *imitates airpods*
1:33:17Alex wants to know, "Is the new iPad Pro 13 inch thin and light enough to consider as someone who previously thought it was too heavy for daily use?"
1:33:26I mean, possibly?
1:33:28I think, yes. I mean, it depends on if you thought it was absolutely untenable, but I think that this is, weight-wise, fine for daily use.
1:33:39But you've got to decide if size is also an issue for you.
1:33:42Right, because it's thinner, but the other dimensions are the same, more or less.
1:33:47So if it was just too unwieldy, then probably not.
1:33:51But if you were right on the edge and you want the bigger screen and you just say, "I wish it was a little lighter and a little thinner," well, it is now.
1:33:58Stee asks, "Did you get to touch the nanotexture screens? How did they handle fingerprints?
1:34:04I remember reading that you need special cleaning cloths for the nanotexture display. I'm curious how they handled that for a touch-first device. Did you touch it at all?"
1:34:12I touched it. It feels like an iPad. It just looks different. They wouldn't make it if it couldn't be touched because it's an iPad.
1:34:21It does come with a cloth that they recommend you use to wipe down the fingerprints because I think they don't want you to use some other kind of material that might do something weird.
1:34:29But it's a different process, we said earlier. It's not the same.
1:34:31Yeah, you probably don't want to use any kind of cleaning solution on this if they've done something chemically to it, I would expect.
1:34:38And also, I didn't notice fingerprints. I'm sure that it's just going to show any device.
1:34:44And I don't know if it's a problem as such. Maybe they showed the fingerprints show more on a glossy display anyway than a matte display? I don't know.
1:34:56Yeah, I used it for 30 seconds. I don't have an opinion about that.
1:35:02Brian wants to know, "Is there any reason why the new Magic Keyboard doesn't support older iPad Pros? I imagine the dimensions are similar except for thickness."
1:35:11Thickness and weight. It's not going to work.
1:35:15It's not going to balance, right?
1:35:16But the reason would be that the Bigly, primarily, is a quarter of a pound lighter. The physics are totally different. Just think about it.
1:35:29You've got to have enough weight in the bottom to prevent it from tipping over.
1:35:33They did not solve for that process with the old iPad. They used the new iPad. So it's not designed. That's the reason.
1:35:41My understanding is that they do not work. The old keyboard will not work on the new one because they're not designed for that and they have broken compatibility in order to design something different.
1:35:53Is there some way to hack the old one to work with the new? Maybe. But Apple's saying don't.
1:36:01There are times when they've said, "Oh, it will technically still work." But they're saying, "No, this stuff."
1:36:09The pencil and the keyboard for the new iPads, you must use the new stuff. They've changed things around.
1:36:17So you've got to bear that in mind for the iPad Pro especially and the Apple Pencil for the iPad Air.
1:36:23Jeff asks, "The hand-rest area on the new Magic Keyboard is aluminium, but what kind of material did they use on the back or outside? Is it the rubbery material of the old Magic Keyboard?"
1:36:36Ding, it is.
1:36:38Yeah, it looks the same, feels the same. I think I kind of dig the two-tone to be honest.
1:36:45I don't know. It's probably fine. My concern is that there's the metal part and then there's the other part that are connected together.
1:36:54I'm a little concerned that that's not going to wear well or that it will come apart or that it will fray right there at that connection between them because it's like one thing is glued to the other one.
1:37:06So in the long run, we'll see how it survives. But yeah, it's a familiar thing. If you thought your iPad was going to turn into a shiny aluminium laptop when it's closed, that is not what happens.
1:37:18Yeah, I mean, I ordered a silver iPad Pro. I ordered one already because it was what I wanted as a product.
1:37:26And I ordered a smart cover because I don't need a Magic Keyboard personally.
1:37:32Need a keyboard.
1:37:33As I said before, I'm not really using my iPad for stuff or I need a keyboard for it that often or a trackpad.
1:37:39But I don't like the weight that it adds to the overall package and I love how an iPad feels in a smart cover and that's perfect for me.
1:37:47But I would not have gotten the silver one because I would not want the mismatching colour and I wouldn't want a white keyboard is the problem, right?
1:38:00Because it's going to get dirtier than the black one.
1:38:02Yeah, yeah.
1:38:03Now, obviously the aluminium won't get dirty, right? So it's not going to pick up grease from your hands in that way that the old smart Magic Keyboard. There was a white Magic Keyboard, right?
1:38:18Smart keyboard.
1:38:19There was a white Magic Keyboard too though.
1:38:20Oh yeah, there was a white Magic Keyboard. That's not new. The grey and the white are the same.
1:38:24Yeah, but the white would discolour, I guess, a little bit. But on this one, at least on the keyboard itself, the keyboard part, it won't because it's aluminium but the outside will still get dirtier than the black one would.
1:38:37Jeff also asks, "The new Magic Keyboard has a 14-key function row. What is it about the design of the new keyboard that gives you space to be able to reach that new function key row? Is that difference an improvement or a shortcoming?"
1:38:52It's the... The cantilever doesn't go as far forward probably because the iPad is lighter. And is that a shortcoming?
1:39:01I mean, right now I would say having a function key row is an improvement. But in terms of the positioning of the iPad, I'm going to have to use it to tell you that. And I will. That's all part of the plan.
1:39:13But, you know, does it tip over more? Is it too far away? Is it less comfortable on the lap? I didn't get to try any of that stuff, so I can't tell you.
1:39:23I found for me that the function row is a little more tucked underneath the iPad than I would like, but I don't know how often I would need to use those keys that it would be a problem.
1:39:45But when you've got it tilted a little bit, you're kind of reaching under the bottom lip of the iPad to hit some of those keys. But I think it's fine.
1:39:55I did like that one of the keys was you could lock the iPad with the function row. I thought that was cool. Because there's nothing to eject and nothing to turn off, which is what that is.
1:40:05There is nothing to eject. It's true. If only. If only. Imagine.
1:40:10I wanted the Magic Keyboard to have a floppy drive in it. That would have been so cool.
1:40:15I mean, look, it would have been a choice, you know? Like if they would have done it and made it work, it would have been a choice.
1:40:20Or a CD drive. A little extra rigidity from the CD that was in the bottom of it.
1:40:25Kevin says, "I'm coming from a 2020 iPad. I'm assuming iPad Pro, which I use for note-taking, document markup, video consumption, and RSS. Should I upgrade or hold off another cycle?"
1:40:38Oh, boy. Well, I mean, it really does depend what model this is.
1:40:42Yeah, we're going to say 2020 iPad Pro. Because that was the one that just got the LiDAR.
1:40:48Yeah. I think what I would say, I'd say I'd hold off and see what iPad OS brings and maybe there'll be some things there that'll make you upgrade.
1:40:58But unless you're, I mean, this is the thing. This is incredibly impressive hardware, but unless there's a very specific thing about it that speaks to you, you can probably survive a little longer.
1:41:10Yeah, I would say if you are a 2018 iPad Pro user, which I know there are many, this is probably a pretty great upgrade for you if you use it.
1:41:19A bunch of the Final Cut and Logic features don't work unless you've got an M1, I think, primarily because of RAM issues and memory management issues.
1:41:31I also wonder if maybe some of the, well, I mean, look, there is the other question here, which we don't know, is like, what potential features could come to iPad OS and iOS this year that may need new hardware? Like that is a, that's a real possibility. And so like, maybe in a few weeks time.
1:41:53Yeah, a bunch of iPad OS, AI features where they're like, requires M series. Yeah. You're like, "Okay, maybe I will update them."
1:42:00Or maybe even requires M4.
1:42:02M4 or M2 or yeah, maybe. Maybe. I'm doubtful. I think that requires M4. I mean, it's possible. It's possible that there could even be, remember there was that one feature, I don't even remember what it was, where you needed the bigger one.
1:42:15You needed to have had the big one that had more RAM in it in order to do something. And we, you know, maybe it's possible that could happen. I don't know.
1:42:24Doug asks, "There's a long list of great changes for these iPads, but what do you think are the most striking updates to the iPad Pro, the keyboard or the pencil after handling them?"
1:42:35Like what, what really stuck out to you? Well, one, I will ask you actually, are you interested in updating your iPad Pro?
1:42:43Yeah. Yeah, I have an M1, so I am interested.
1:42:46But what makes, what sticks out to you to make this the one that you would maybe update where you haven't before?
1:42:52OLED.
1:42:53And that's on the, so if you have an M1, you don't have a mini LED version?
1:42:58I do.
1:42:59Is a mini LED? Okay, sorry, I forget. Yes. M1 was the first one to get it. M2 got it again.
1:43:05OLED. I can't wait to compare them, but like OLED, I think, and keyboard, partially because I use a keyboard to do my job and I don't really use a pencil to do much of my job other than, and the changes to the pencil don't particularly interest me.
1:43:24I mean, maybe depending on the apps, the app that I use with the pencil, I could see it, but it's just, I'm not, again, artists are going to feel differently about it.
1:43:34But for me, the keyboard with the function keys, I read a lot of stuff on my iPad using the magic keyboard.
1:43:39And so to have a new magic keyboard with that function row, very interesting.
1:43:44So that's the one that I am, I think our most striking is the display and the keyboard.
1:43:51But your mileage may vary.
1:43:53And again, we don't really know. Maybe there are things that are going to be enabled again by iPad OS in the fall that we don't know about yet.
1:44:01I don't know.
1:44:02For me, the physical dimensions are a thing like the thinness I think is really compelling.
1:44:09The Apple Pencil, I think that it's a really nice upgrade that even if you only use it sometimes, you're going to have a great time with it.
1:44:16Like I cannot express how easy it is to change like tools now by just being able to do the squeeze thing.
1:44:23It feels very natural, very fun to use.
1:44:27And the OLED, as you say, the OLED screen, I mean, I've waited for Apple to put OLED in an iPad for a while now.
1:44:36We've been talking about it.
1:44:38And I think it looks fantastic and I look forward to experiencing it in my usual environments with my usual content.
1:44:46Right.
1:44:48If you would like to send in an Ask a upgrade question in a future episode of your own, please go to upgradefeedback.com and you can do that.
1:44:56But we're not done yet in this episode.
1:44:58We have some other things that we need to get to.
1:45:02This episode is brought to you by Factor.
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1:46:12And Upgradians know, Jason, how popular the Factor meals are in your whole household, right?
1:46:17Yes, that's right, because Lauren steals them and takes them to work with her.
1:46:21Because she works in an office and needs lunch and they have passed her test and she has rejected many microwaves.
1:46:29I'm always thinking, why is she didn't she take these leftovers to work and it's like some leftover.
1:46:33She's like, I'm not microwaving that. That's no good.
1:46:35And she doesn't do that with the Factor meals.
1:46:37She just steals them from me.
1:46:39You can go to factormeals.com/upgrade50 and use the code upgrade50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month.
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1:47:01Our thanks to Factor for the support of this show and Relay FM.
1:47:05Two things before we finish, the first, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, time, money, time and charts, time, apples, Q2 results.
1:47:19I don't know. I mean, you probably had it on your calendar, but I totally forgot that this is happening.
1:47:24I was very surprised to see this hit my RSS feed from six colors, but I want to break this down real quick.
1:47:32So revenue, $90.8 billion down 4% year over year.
1:47:38The Mac, $7.5 billion up 4%.
1:47:43iPad at $5.6 billion down 17%.
1:47:47Oh, man, they need some new iPads.
1:47:49They sure do, don't they?
1:47:50The iPhone, $46 billion down 10%.
1:47:54Wearables, $7.9 billion down 10%.
1:47:57Services, $23.9 billion up 14%, setting another all-time record.
1:48:03So reading your coverage on this, it seems like the main takeaway for why the iPhone had its...
1:48:11Well, why we're down is mostly because iPhone's down, as iPhone drives everything.
1:48:16That essentially there was pent-up demand due to COVID in the year-ago quarter that Tim says pulled basically $5 billion of revenue into that quarter, which is an anomaly.
1:48:31That's their excuse.
1:48:32I will point out that if you take the last two quarters of last year and last two quarters of this year and compare them, they're still down, right?
1:48:40I think last quarter they didn't say, "Oh, you know, we're up, but you shouldn't count it because there was COVID."
1:48:49Maybe they did. I don't know.
1:48:50But it was up, so everybody was happy.
1:48:53And then this quarter they're like, "Oh, no, no, but last year was a tough compare."
1:48:57Put them together and it's still down a little bit.
1:48:59But look, the iPhones in the right ballpark, I think that they said that a lot of their stuff is a difficult compare in part because of the strength of the dollar and that they have seen growth in a lot of markets, but that don't show up in the balance sheet because the growth is happening.
1:49:18And then in a currency that when you translate to the dollar, the dollar has gotten stronger and so it makes it seem weaker than it actually is.
1:49:26It's fine.
1:49:27The big thing for me is that there were all of these reports from various research groups that Apple's phone sales in China were in freefall.
1:49:36And on the call, Tim Cook was asked about it directly and he was like, "I don't know what to tell you. You just heard our numbers.
1:49:43We were accelerating in urban China and in mainland China."
1:49:49So I don't know what that means other than he points at the numbers and says, "We're doing okay in China." Interesting. Interesting conflict there.
1:50:01He did say, I think, that it's like a really tough market though, which is interesting.
1:50:05Oh, yeah. It's an incredibly brutal competitive market.
1:50:09It was like, I don't know, it seemed interesting to me to hear him say that, but it is more competitive there than in other parts of the world, it seems like.
1:50:17Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
1:50:19Wearables don't show vision pro success. I mean, I think we do that anyway.
1:50:24There's no way they would have.
1:50:25There's no way they would have, but it's just a thing.
1:50:27It's just a thing, right? Like it's just, you know, it's a thing.
1:50:30With the Mac being the only product line up year over year, which I guess considering today's comments, we can attribute to the success of the MacBook M3.
1:50:38Yeah.
1:50:39Which is cool.
1:50:40I think that is, they did that too. And they said today that the 15-inch is the best selling 15-inch.
1:50:45Yeah.
1:50:46And I would like to read a quote here from Tim Cook.
1:50:49Okay.
1:50:50We believe in the transformative power and promise of AI, and we believe we have advantages that will differentiate us in this new era, including Apple's unique combination of seamless hardware, software, and services integration, groundbreaking Apple Silicon with our industry-leading neural engines, and our unwavering focus on privacy, which underpins everything we create.
1:51:09So the three things to take away from this, Apple Silicon, privacy, and services?
1:51:15Yeah.
1:51:16Yeah.
1:51:17Right. So one is what we talked about earlier.
1:51:18Yeah.
1:51:19Apple's been building AI-focused hardware, AI-focused chips for seven years. So they're in pretty good shape there.
1:51:30Privacy is a signal that they're going to do a lot of stuff on device if they can, see the chips thing, and that's an advantage for them because the more, it's not just good for users, but it's good for sort of everybody.
1:51:47The more stuff that happens on device is the less stuff that is sent into the cloud, which is expensive for companies to have cloud servers to process that stuff when Apple is rolling out chips to everybody that can just do it right there. Plus it's faster.
1:52:01So there's that.
1:52:02And then services?
1:52:05I don't know. This may be a hint that they're going to do some integration with third-party AI stuff, right? Where it's like, that's not a thing that you get from Apple necessarily, and it's something that happens up in the cloud. That part's, yeah, interesting.
1:52:22You know, I wonder if there are potentially some features available to iCloud bus subscribers or, you know, if things that cost Apple extra money or whatever it's going to be, I don't know, but it wasn't a surprise for me to hear Tim mention services when talking about this.
1:52:40It's also rote. I mean, hardware, software and services is what they say. So he may not have, I mean, it may have been hardware, software and services, right? But, you know, they say that they say it all now. So it's in there.
1:52:54And Jason, it is time to lawyer up.
1:52:58Lawyer up.
1:52:59Lawyer up time. There is something we want to talk about.
1:53:03Order in the court. Order.
1:53:04Order.
1:53:05The main reason we're doing lawyer up today is because we have lawyer up artwork now, which you can look at in your podcast player, which is truly incredible. So this is a back to the future like scenario I think we've got. So in Rumour Roundup, there are these two guys and their cowboys.
1:53:21Now, they've moved forward a couple of hundred years. Now they're in legal fashion.
1:53:27Now they're lawyers, yeah.
1:53:28So we have Mike the barrister, Jason the simple country lawyer.
1:53:32I'm a simple country lawyer.
1:53:33Simple country lawyer.
1:53:34That's right.
1:53:35Taking a bite out of the law. But this is the, we've mentioned this segment before, this is our litigation segment now called lawyer up with its own artwork. And we're here today to talk about core technology fee changes.
1:53:49Oh, by the way, thank you to Siege Rowland for producing this wonderful.
1:53:55Yes.
1:53:56So there is no longer going to be a core technology fee payable if an app has no revenue source.
1:54:04So if I guess you have to be able to prove this.
1:54:08Yes. Annually prove that you are not making money.
1:54:11So in any form, it's not like.
1:54:14This is the Riley tested like I'm just a kid who made an app that went viral. I don't owe you $3 million.
1:54:21Well, actually, I don't think this is the Riley part. I think, well, maybe. Okay. So.
1:54:27Well, it was free and he gave it away when he was a kid.
1:54:30Yeah. Now I think that is sort of it.
1:54:32Now it was a Patreon, right? And so the Patreon would. But yes, back then of like, as they say, as Apple says, this condition is intended to give students hobbyists and other non commercial developers an opportunity to create a popular app without paying the CTF.
1:54:44So essentially what you could do is if you wanted to have a free app and you're worried that it might blow up or whatever, you could do it. If it does, then you could make a business because you then understand where you are.
1:54:55And then you'll give Apple the money. Right. But this is it stops that scenario of if you're just looking to do something for fun and it explodes.
1:55:04No CTF. This is great. This is a great change that I wanted them to make.
1:55:08I still think there are other CTF changes they should make. There are ones they have made, which we'll talk about, but I'm pleased they did this one.
1:55:14The second change is now bear with me here. All right.
1:55:18If you make less than 10 million euros in global revenue a year, you get a three year on ramp for the CTF.
1:55:27If you cross the 1 million installed threshold for the first time during this three year period, you will not pay the core technology fee.
1:55:36If your revenue falls, like if your revenue balances at between 10 and 50 million euros during these three years, you would pay the CTF after the first 1 million installs in that, as we just mentioned, but you're capped at paying Apple a million euros a year.
1:55:56Complicated, but again, they're still trying to work this out.
1:56:01Put these out there and then look over at the EC and say, is this okay?
1:56:06The answer is probably no.
1:56:08Probably not, but they're trying.
1:56:10They're trying again. And then the other news that has occurred is that Apple have confirmed they will make the iPad and iPadOS DMA compliant later this fall.
1:56:21Later this fall, of course, as was prophesied by us. Of course it will be later this fall.
1:56:27And you know what? It's been a long episode of Upgrade Mike. The fact is, if you stuck with us this long, I know you had to hear some boring legal stuff, but you got to see the lawyer up art.
1:56:37Indeed. And wasn't that worth it? Wasn't that worth it? I think it was.
1:56:41It was.
1:56:42Thank you for listening to this bumper episode of Upgrade.
1:56:45If you'd like to send us in your feedback, follow up or questions, go to upgradefeedback.com.
1:56:50You can check out Jason's work. I'm sure there's going to be more writing and information over at sixcolors.com about the new iPads.
1:56:57And you can hear his podcasts at the incomparable.com and here on Relay FM.
1:57:01You can listen to me here on Relay FM and you can check out my work at cortexbrand.com.
1:57:06If you want to find us online, Jason is at JSNEL, J-S-N-E-L-L-L. I am at i-Mike, I-M-Y-K-E.
1:57:13You can watch video clips of this show on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube where we are at Upgrade Relay.
1:57:19Don't forget you have just a few days left for Upgrade merch. Please go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com. Check them out. Support the show.
1:57:26Thank you to our members who support us directly with Upgrade Plus.
1:57:30Thank you to our sponsors this week, Factor, Vitaly, Squarespace and Tailscale.
1:57:35And most of all, thank you for listening. Till next time, say goodbye to Jason's NEL.
1:57:40Forget about it. I'm walking here.
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