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503: The King of Moderating

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:07Hello and welcome to episode 503 of the Connected Podcast from Relay FM.

0:00:13This episode is brought to you by NetSuite, Ecamm, 1Password and Fitbud.

0:00:18My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure of welcoming to the show Federico Vittucci.

0:00:23Hello Mike, how are you?

0:00:25Hello Federico.

0:00:26It's good to be back here, it's good to talk to you.

0:00:30And I'm happy to be back.

0:00:32It's good to talk to Steven. Hello Steven.

0:00:34Hello boys, it is good.

0:00:37We're all together again.

0:00:38Yes.

0:00:39Which is nice.

0:00:40Mike, I hope you had a good time off.

0:00:42I did.

0:00:43And now we're back.

0:00:46We're back.

0:00:47And that means we start with follow up.

0:00:50Follow up.

0:00:51You got to do, someone's got to do the sound, you know.

0:00:52Follow up.

0:00:53Follow up.

0:00:54Follow up.

0:00:55iOS 17.5.1 is out.

0:00:58This fixes an issue that it kind of fell between our episodes a little bit, where deleted pictures

0:01:05were reappearing for some users.

0:01:07A lot of people wrote the headlines of the iPhone is undeleting your nudes because obviously

0:01:12that's what people are going to recognize immediately in their photo rolls that have

0:01:18been deleted.

0:01:19Right?

0:01:19If you took 17 pictures of your kids' soccer game and two show back up, you're not going

0:01:23to notice that, but nudity pictures, you probably will.

0:01:27Horrific bug.

0:01:29I really hope that everyone had to work late and over the weekend to fix this unexcusable,

0:01:35but it seems to be fixed in 17.5.1.

0:01:37So good job.

0:01:40But I would like to call attention to this and one other thing.

0:01:43Okay.

0:01:44So this bug happened.

0:01:46We also had that thing a few weeks ago, which I spoke about on upgrade where a bunch of

0:01:50Apple IDs got locked and had to reset the passwords, right?

0:01:55Both of these things have come and gone.

0:02:00Apple's not saying anything about it because this photos thing, how did this happen?

0:02:06I believe they need to answer this.

0:02:09Yes, they do.

0:02:10Because if I have deleted a photo, that photo should be gone, right?

0:02:15Why does it still exist?

0:02:16Exactly.

0:02:17Where does it exist?

0:02:18The photos that I have chosen to delete, that Apple tells me will be deleted after 30 days,

0:02:23how did they come back?

0:02:25How did that happen?

0:02:26Like there were reports where, I don't know if this is true or not, but there were reports

0:02:30that I was reading that some people were getting photos from a previous device owner.

0:02:37Well that was like one report on Reddit.

0:02:40Yeah I mean, you can't be sure of that.

0:02:43I don't think that was a thing.

0:02:44It was enough to say that photos that were deleted were coming back and they were longer

0:02:49than 30 days even.

0:02:50So where and why are these photos being stored and how on earth did they come back again?

0:02:57I think there needs to be an explanation for this.

0:03:01You're right, you're totally right.

0:03:03I cannot believe Apple hasn't said anything about all that login reset stuff.

0:03:08But between the two, they need to have some sort of statement.

0:03:11Because like this is, it's serious.

0:03:14I mean the nude headlines are one thing, but like all sorts of terrible things can happen

0:03:20when this comes up.

0:03:22And it definitely raises the question in my mind as well, like does deleting not mean

0:03:25deleting?

0:03:26Like are these hanging out on a server somewhere?

0:03:28Are they still in my iCloud account just like hidden away somehow?

0:03:34There needs to be an explanation around this.

0:03:37But if there hasn't been by now, probably won't be.

0:03:39Because they've been pretty good recently at getting their statements out and these

0:03:42are things that people are asking for comment on and they're not giving any.

0:03:47That's not what you think.

0:03:49It's not what you think.

0:03:51Deleting, it's not what you think.

0:03:55I love it.

0:03:56That's so good.

0:03:57That's so good.

0:03:59T.G., you are the king of moderating, not moderating.

0:04:03Moderating, yes I'm moderating.

0:04:04You are the king of moderation.

0:04:05You better eke out the moderator.

0:04:07You are the king of modifying, geez, iPads.

0:04:11Moderatifying.

0:04:12Moderatifying magic keyboards and iPads and Macs.

0:04:16We're going to talk about MacPad 2.0 in a little while.

0:04:21Can you walk me through what's going on with this magic keyboard mod that's floating around?

0:04:24Yeah, so I saw this post on Threads.

0:04:29This person noticed that the magic keyboard felt more tippy when used on a desk compared

0:04:36to the previous one.

0:04:38The problem is that the redesign hinge of the magic keyboard doesn't touch the desk

0:04:46or like any flat surface when the keyboard is open and you're typing on your iPad.

0:04:52This person's solution, Chris Newman on Threads, was to just simply attach some clear silicon

0:04:59bumpers, like some clear rubber feet essentially, to the hinge and stabilize the keyboard.

0:05:06It works.

0:05:08This is something that I also noticed.

0:05:10I'm going to do this mod myself, not exactly for this reason, but because the new hinge,

0:05:19I don't like how it scratches my kitchen table because it's this flat aluminum bar on my

0:05:27kitchen table.

0:05:30My kitchen table is made of ceramic, so I don't want this thing to get the hinge to

0:05:37be ruined by the texture of my kitchen table, so I'm just going to apply these clear plastic

0:05:43bumpers, exactly like Chris did on Threads, to solve that problem.

0:05:49So yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

0:05:50It's a clever, simple mod that doesn't involve voiding any warranty for your magic keyboard.

0:05:59So I have something that I think you'll enjoy Federico, those little rubber guys.

0:06:033M created a product like this and they call them bumpons.

0:06:06Oh my god, bumpons?

0:06:09I think you'd like that word, bumpons.

0:06:11B-U-M-P-O-N, bumpon.

0:06:13Bumpon?

0:06:14Bumpon.

0:06:15Bumpon, I can get them Friday.

0:06:18And I know this because in keyboards this is what people just call them, so these are

0:06:23very, this type of little rubber feet that they're all mechanical keyboards because

0:06:29you don't want the metal on the desk and also it stops the keyboard from moving around.

0:06:33And so that's where I learned the term bumpons because I have a bunch of bumpons.

0:06:38Bumpons are great, I put them on everything.

0:06:42What you are for those rolling squares, I am for bumpons.

0:06:45I have them on tons of stuff in my house, things that go on kitchen counters and stuff

0:06:50to stop them moving around like cutting boards and I'm bumping on everything.

0:06:54Bumpons.

0:06:55I've used them to replace feet on computers I get into the collection because sometimes

0:07:00those rubber feet are really sticky or they come off and what's great about them, you

0:07:04can go to the hardware store and they come in all sorts of sizes.

0:07:07In clear or brown or black, round, square, it's a great technology.

0:07:15Bumpon.

0:07:16Bumpon.

0:07:17Bumpon.

0:07:18Listener Greg wrote in, in connected 502 Federico wondered why the body's default remedy to

0:07:24many situations is a throw up.

0:07:26Ah yes, yes I did.

0:07:28If what you see doesn't seem to agree with your other senses, what your other senses

0:07:32are telling you about your motion, one thing that can cause this is ingesting something

0:07:37poisonous.

0:07:39The body simply decides to get rid of everything in case something in it is causing harm.

0:07:44Huh.

0:07:45There you go.

0:07:46Okay so this is like a natural reflex or something that the human body thinks that it ingested

0:07:54something and so it's like oh let me throw it up you know as a precaution.

0:07:58Makes sense.

0:07:59Yeah you eat some some wild mushrooms in the forest and suddenly the ground starts moving.

0:08:04Yeah it's a good thing just to toss it overboard.

0:08:08Yeah I was recently talking to a friend.

0:08:11She relocated to New Zealand a few years ago.

0:08:17Like the typical story of like abandoning all of her belongings from her previous life.

0:08:22She's a couple of years younger than me and she tried to sell me on this idea that it's

0:08:27actually good for you to micro dose on mushrooms.

0:08:30It's like if you do it in small qualities it's fine.

0:08:33It's like yeah I'm not gonna do it.

0:08:35I mean that's what they say.

0:08:37Thank you.

0:08:38It's just like no it's actually great for your creativity.

0:08:41It's like yeah thank you but no I'm not gonna do that.

0:08:44I bet it is.

0:08:45I mean you know a hyper card came out of an LSD trip so.

0:08:48Did it?

0:08:49It did.

0:08:50Oh.

0:08:51Really?

0:08:52No okay.

0:08:53We should micro dose on mushrooms and see where it takes us.

0:08:55Maybe we should consider the mushrooms.

0:08:56Yeah.

0:08:57Can you imagine how funny this show would be if we were all on mushrooms?

0:09:02Someone might cut a MacBook Air in half.

0:09:04Someone might.

0:09:05But in the other way it's not what you think.

0:09:10Just like half of the screen off the keyboard.

0:09:13Or you know like I take the screen out of my studio display and like stick an iPad to

0:09:17it.

0:09:18It's like the inverse of the Mac pad.

0:09:21I want an OLED.

0:09:22You just flip it around and you're just like you're reaching around and you're like touching

0:09:26the back you know and like what's happening on the front.

0:09:28It's like perfect.

0:09:29That's the way it's going.

0:09:30Speaking of micro dosing.

0:09:32Yes.

0:09:33Speaking of being high.

0:09:39Humane is looking for a buyer.

0:09:42This is according to Mark Gurman at Bloomberg.

0:09:45No they're going to need a big dose not a micro dose for this one.

0:09:49Yeah they're going to need a big dose of money.

0:09:51This is the whole basket of mushrooms.

0:09:53Tell us the price Mike.

0:09:55So Mark Gurman's reporting that they're trying to sell themselves so that they're engaging

0:09:59with financial middle people and they are looking for a price somewhere between 750 million

0:10:06to a billion.

0:10:07Holy moly.

0:10:09Which look I mean the thing is if they're going to sell this is the kind of money they

0:10:16need because of how much money they've raised.

0:10:18Like we can make a lot of arguments as to whether they're worth that money.

0:10:23I'm not sure that they are.

0:10:26They might have an amount of intellectual property that's interesting.

0:10:30I don't know how you would value any of that.

0:10:34But this is like they need to return money to the people that invested in them right.

0:10:38So like if they're going to sell it has to be for this.

0:10:40I think someone will buy them.

0:10:41I don't think someone will pay that amount of money.

0:10:44Like I think they'll probably end up just like everyone just gets what they paid in

0:10:47which is probably like half a billion or something.

0:10:51Someone's going to buy them I think.

0:10:53Yeah it's the world's most expensive laser.

0:10:58That's probably not true.

0:11:00I think that they are probably genuinely like interesting to some company because they did

0:11:06produce a piece of hardware that looked nice right.

0:11:11And there aren't a lot of people that can do that I feel.

0:11:15I'm not surprised by this.

0:11:18Where else are they going to go?

0:11:19It's either this or it goes out of business probably right.

0:11:22I think.

0:11:23Yeah.

0:11:24Realistically.

0:11:25I made the joke to you guys earlier when we were talking about this in iMessage that if

0:11:29I was Tim Cook I would buy them and force them to work on the iPhone.

0:11:34That's what I would do.

0:11:35You said the iPhone SE.

0:11:37I did say the iPhone SE specifically because it's the least exciting iPhone.

0:11:42Sorry iPhone SE users.

0:11:44You see I didn't want to say that because I didn't want the follow up.

0:11:48But yeah that's what I would do.

0:11:49I'd be like you had a lot to say about the smartphone.

0:11:51Get back to work on the smartphone.

0:11:53That's what I would do.

0:11:54But you know.

0:11:56Steven did you make a decision about your social media username yet?

0:12:01I did.

0:12:03Okay.

0:12:04I am @therealmikehurley.

0:12:06Please stand up.

0:12:09Instagram.

0:12:10Mike Hurley official.

0:12:12Mom's spaghetti.

0:12:14/therealmikehurley.

0:12:16You're a liar.

0:12:20As always.

0:12:21As always.

0:12:22Geez.

0:12:23Yeah I'm just sticking with ismh86.

0:12:28Done.

0:12:29Oh so you've gone everywhere now.

0:12:32Yes.

0:12:33You can't.

0:12:34I don't know if I said this on the show.

0:12:36But you can't just change a Mastodon username.

0:12:40Which is bogus Mastodon fetaverse people.

0:12:44It's not surprising though.

0:12:45You have to think about it.

0:12:46You have to create a new account and then you can migrate the account.

0:12:50But the migration only moves your followers.

0:12:54So people who follow you will follow your new account.

0:12:57You have to export a CSV and then import it to your new account to have people you follow

0:13:02come over to your new account.

0:13:04Why is that not in the migration?

0:13:06And there's no way to move your contents like all your old posts just go away.

0:13:09Which is fine.

0:13:10I don't care.

0:13:11But it's very complicated.

0:13:13And this is now the second time I've done it because I went from mastodon.social to

0:13:16eWorld.social and now this.

0:13:19And it's kind of a pain.

0:13:23But you know open web.

0:13:24What are you going to do?

0:13:26It's fun to search for you right now.

0:13:27Yeah there's probably six of me.

0:13:29There's so many Stevens.

0:13:30I know.

0:13:31So I have a couple of questions for you.

0:13:34Did you say that you lose the posts or you keep the posts?

0:13:36You lose them.

0:13:37Well they don't move to your new account so they're effectively gone.

0:13:42Oh because also when I search for you I find the threads version of you as well.

0:13:46Yeah because I have that federated and that is actually broken at the moment.

0:13:53So I went to the threads interface.

0:13:54It was like oh I changed what account I need to go to.

0:13:58So I turned it off and you can't turn it back on for like 30 days.

0:14:03Makes sense.

0:14:04Because you don't want to federate too hard.

0:14:05So it is not federating right now but it will again because I think that's good.

0:14:13Mums fed-getty.

0:14:17Fed-daddy.

0:14:20Fed-averse-getty.

0:14:21So yeah I don't you know it's not my favorite thing in the world but it's done.

0:14:29So it's done.

0:14:31So let this be a lesson to you and everyone.

0:14:34Don't delete accounts on social media right.

0:14:38If you want to take a break delete the app.

0:14:40Don't delete the account because then you end up in this scenario you know.

0:14:45I think it's rare that somebody changes a username to add numbers but Steven had to

0:14:49do it so don't delete accounts.

0:14:52Don't do it.

0:14:53I was mad because Instagram got bought and rage quit and I should have just.

0:14:57Now look at you.

0:14:58And that's what I do with my Twitter account.

0:15:01It's just like locked and private.

0:15:03Yeah my Twitter account is just like a ghost.

0:15:07It really is.

0:15:09I think I even changed my profile to black and white to make it look like I'm dead.

0:15:14Wow.

0:15:15I did that on Twitter.

0:15:16I have this thing if I ever see a black and white photo of someone I've immediately assumed

0:15:20that they've died.

0:15:21Yeah.

0:15:22Do you ever feel this?

0:15:23Yeah.

0:15:24Like if you're on Instagram if someone posts a black and white photo of someone I'm like

0:15:26oh no they're dead.

0:15:27That's my initial thought.

0:15:29I don't like that.

0:15:30I just went to Twitter because I was gonna look at my account.

0:15:32It redirected to x.com and one password doesn't work because all my URLs saved in one password

0:15:38are for twitter.com not x.com.

0:15:41I'll just never log in again.

0:15:42Yeah whatever.

0:15:44I did not change my account by going on it right now but what I find so funny right now

0:15:48is you go to like a Twitter page and you very quickly see it and then they pop up a thing

0:15:52that says log in and I find that so funny like it's so broken.

0:15:55It is so broken.

0:15:57It is dead.

0:15:59Rest in peace.

0:16:02This episode of Connected is brought to you by NetSuite.

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0:17:28Our thanks to NetSuite for the support of the show and Relay FM.

0:17:34So we should talk about headphones.

0:17:36There's always a new headphone king in town, maybe?

0:17:40I don't know.

0:17:41Sonos, they have officially unveiled their widely speculated and previously rumored and

0:17:47shown on a bunch of websites, Sonos Ace headphones.

0:17:51These are over-ear wireless headphones that look pretty good, I would say.

0:17:58They are reminiscent of the AirPods Max in some ways, the design of the headband and

0:18:05the arms and the removable magnetic cups that you can remove and replace whenever you want.

0:18:15They have, of course, some unique integrations with the Sonos ecosystem.

0:18:20I will leave you to...there's a bunch of videos that you can go check out, but I think Chris

0:18:25Welch's first look on the verge is a pretty good one.

0:18:29Chris is the headphone guy on the verge.

0:18:33Excellent coverage all the time.

0:18:34He's also been breaking news about these products for their entire existence.

0:18:40It's very funny that they do continue.

0:18:43You know what I like about Sonos, actually, is they continue to give this access to Chris.

0:18:48And Chris is the key person posting the leaks.

0:18:53I respect that.

0:18:54I respect that about a company.

0:18:58This person is like, they are on your beat, but he's still there in the press events.

0:19:03I respect that about Sonos.

0:19:05More companies should be like that.

0:19:07So, yeah, these headphones, they have...so the first unique integration is, of course,

0:19:14the support for private listening.

0:19:17So if you're at home and you have Sonos soundbars or other Sonos equipment...

0:19:23Just Sonos soundbars.

0:19:24Just Sonos soundbars, okay.

0:19:25Yeah, just Sonos soundbars.

0:19:27You can put on your headphones and you can sort of transfer the audio from the soundbar

0:19:32to the headphones if you want to join in and just listen in using your headphones.

0:19:38They have these...what's the name of the button that they have?

0:19:42The content button?

0:19:44The content key.

0:19:45Content key.

0:19:46Yeah, the content key, which is this metal slider that you can use to adjust volume and

0:19:51press to play and pause, as well as to long press if you want to beam the audio from the

0:19:56TV to the headphones.

0:19:59They look pretty good, I think.

0:20:02They're not made of aluminum as the AirPods Max.

0:20:06They have a really cool-looking case that also uses magnets to line up the different

0:20:12parts that you need to store and carry.

0:20:15I'm not gonna buy this, but we do have a long time at this point, Sonos customer, the real

0:20:24Mike Hurley.

0:20:26What do you think about these Sonos headphones?

0:20:30I think that it's interesting, the decisions that they made.

0:20:34I think they made the right decisions, though.

0:20:39These headphones do not integrate with the Sonos system that you would be used to as

0:20:44a Sonos customer.

0:20:46So you can't be listening to something on Sonos speakers and then have that music also

0:20:55playing the headphones.

0:20:56It doesn't work like that.

0:20:58These are Bluetooth headphones, first and foremost, and then they have the one integration

0:21:02with the Sonos system, which is if you have, at the moment, it's just their most expensive

0:21:07soundbar but they're gonna be bringing it to their other soundbars where you can do

0:21:10this thing of like, "I'm watching something on TV and now I can just bring that audio

0:21:14to me."

0:21:16These are fully featured headphones.

0:21:19They've got Dolby Atmos and surround sound and they say they have best in class noise

0:21:26cancellation, they have transparency mode.

0:21:29So if you are a Sonos customer, it's weird because here's a Sonos product that doesn't

0:21:34work like a Sonos product, but I actually think this was the right decision because

0:21:38I think it would have been weirder to be like, "Here's a pair of headphones and you can

0:21:42only listen to them in your house."

0:21:44That would have been very strange as a product to exist.

0:21:48So I think that this is a smart product of like, what I hope that they have done here

0:21:52is we have made an excellent pair of headphones that are Bluetooth headphones.

0:21:56You can listen to them on your phone, your iPad, when you're traveling, and then it

0:22:03may bring more people into the Sonos ecosystem, right?

0:22:06Where they're like, "I really like these, what else do they do?"

0:22:09So that might be a thing that we see more of.

0:22:12For me, I am obviously very intrigued about this product because I am a big fan of Sonos'

0:22:18stuff.

0:22:19We spoke about it in the pro show, but I know there's this big controversy about the app

0:22:22right now.

0:22:24The app is fine for me because I don't use the features that are missing and I actually

0:22:29like the new design.

0:22:32And I'm intrigued about these headphones.

0:22:34I'm very intrigued to see the full reviews, like how good is the noise cancellation.

0:22:38But really what I want, what would be best for me is I want AirPods Max 2.

0:22:44That's what I want.

0:22:46Because what I want is all of the stuff that's in my AirPods Pro, but in my AirPods Max.

0:22:51I want active transparency, I want USB-C, I want voice, like conversation detection,

0:22:59like I want all that stuff.

0:23:00And that's obviously not what the Sonos has because that's Apple stuff.

0:23:04So I'm just going to sit hoping and waiting for the AirPods Max 2 because I don't want

0:23:11to buy two sets of $400 headphones within like a year or whatever.

0:23:16And I would say the AirPods Max, they are still excellent headphones, even though they

0:23:21miss a bunch of features.

0:23:22But they are still super good.

0:23:24So if I didn't have any of these and I was maybe making a decision about a pair of headphones

0:23:28to buy, I could see myself making this decision based on how good or not the reviews are.

0:23:34But I would struggle to replace my AirPods Max of these when if AirPods Max 2 come, which

0:23:41I do think they still will, then I would want those more, I reckon.

0:23:47But these are, this is an interesting product.

0:23:49I think they've done a, I think this, you know, looks way more compelling as a version

0:23:55one product than you would expect a version one product to be, right?

0:23:59Just like the overall finish of these look really, really good.

0:24:02Yeah.

0:24:03Yeah, I agree.

0:24:04Mike, you have an iPad Pro.

0:24:06Tell us about it.

0:24:07Yeah.

0:24:08So I love my iPad Pro.

0:24:09I have an 11 inch iPad Pro.

0:24:12I've had it since Saturday and I am enamored by this product.

0:24:19I am excited to use it.

0:24:21It makes me happy to use it.

0:24:24Which is a feeling that comes along not every time that I have a new Apple product, right?

0:24:32You know, like recently, like obviously the vision pro cause it was all brand new, but

0:24:36like I think about something like the iPhone 12, no 14.

0:24:42What was the one that went flat sides?

0:24:43Was it 14?

0:24:44No, I think it was the 12.

0:24:48Okay.

0:24:49So that one was like, Oh, I loved that phone.

0:24:51Right.

0:24:52And I think about it, like this is so nice and new in its way or, um, even to an L to

0:24:56a point that the 15 because of the lightness, but not, it didn't have as much.

0:25:01Or I think about something like Apple watch ultra, which is like the first Apple watch

0:25:05in many years and, or the, uh, the M2 MacBook air, because like there are these devices

0:25:10that take these big leaps.

0:25:11And for me coming from an iPad mini huge leap, right?

0:25:16Like, and as well, like the last iPad pro that I used was a 2020 iPad pro.

0:25:22So the best screen technology I had was promotion.

0:25:26I never had many LEDs.

0:25:27So going to an OLED is fantastic.

0:25:29All of the new pencil stuff is incredible.

0:25:32I found last night that if you use, you know, I still, now I'm using an iPad pro again,

0:25:37I'm using my Apple pencil was for navigation as well as I am for like scribbling around,

0:25:41but they added a little haptic for if you long press on stuff.

0:25:46So if you long press on stuff, the pencil clicks, it's like, great.

0:25:49I love that.

0:25:50I want that.

0:25:51So these little details are just fantastic.

0:25:53I love, I love the new smart folio.

0:25:56The fact that I can put it in different orientations, it's a little fiddly, but it does the job.

0:26:01Um, yeah, this, I think this iPad is fantastic.

0:26:04I'm super, super happy with it.

0:26:06And you know, I spoke about this upgrade, but like, I don't have any real desire to

0:26:11use my iPad for more than what Apple wants you to use an iPad for.

0:26:15And like, this is no shade on any friends of mine, right?

0:26:18Like I have, I have lived that life.

0:26:20You're talking about me?

0:26:21You have a problem?

0:26:22I don't know anyone, you know, Steven maybe.

0:26:24But I've been in those trenches.

0:26:27I lived that life, but now I just, I use my iPad for content consumption and I'm very

0:26:34happy with that.

0:26:35And this one is like, it's fantastic.

0:26:38It's fantastic because it's all content looks and feels better on it.

0:26:42So thin, super light.

0:26:43Like I'm still having, I pick it up and I'm like, man, that's so light.

0:26:47Yeah, this is just for me, an incredible product and I'm very happy with it.

0:26:51Hmm.

0:26:52Um, you know that Apple pencil squeezes never worked for me.

0:26:57Have you adjusted the sensitivity?

0:27:00No, no, no.

0:27:03What I mean is that I go in settings and I assign, run a shortcut as an action for the

0:27:11squeeze.

0:27:12Then I back out of that page, right?

0:27:16I go to the previous screen and it says squeeze turned off.

0:27:21I opened the setting again.

0:27:22I say, when I squeeze run a shortcut, then I go back and it says off.

0:27:28And so I rebooted my iPad.

0:27:30I installed 17.5.1.

0:27:33I try it again.

0:27:34It's like the setting doesn't stick for me.

0:27:38Like, so the squeezes currently useless on my iPad.

0:27:42Have you played around with it without the shortcut?

0:27:44No, no, no.

0:27:45Like just, just in the notes and stuff like that.

0:27:48Why would I?

0:27:49I guarantee you it's shortcuts.

0:27:50I can barely hold the pencil in my hands.

0:27:52Like I don't even know.

0:27:53Like yesterday I had to fill out a form using a pen.

0:27:55I was like, do I even know how to write anymore?

0:27:58Oh boy.

0:27:59Yeah.

0:28:00Well, I like it, but if it didn't work for me, I would also, I would be unhappy, you

0:28:06know?

0:28:07Yeah.

0:28:08Yeah.

0:28:09So hopefully it'll get fixed.

0:28:10That's fine.

0:28:11I apologize, right?

0:28:12You know?

0:28:13Yeah.

0:28:14I'm just kidding.

0:28:15Put Mac OS on it.

0:28:16No, I'm just kidding.

0:28:17But maybe.

0:28:18Steven, have you kept yours?

0:28:19Yeah.

0:28:20Yeah.

0:28:21Nice.

0:28:22Nice.

0:28:23I got to say as a listener of the show last week, just a great moment.

0:28:26Just a great moment.

0:28:27That was a classic Steven moment.

0:28:29When Steven announced that he had an iPad, which I knew was going to happen.

0:28:34Like I was very confident it was going to happen, but it was beautiful the way it was

0:28:38unveiled to the world.

0:28:40Federico had asked me before we hit record, I just didn't answer.

0:28:43I just talked about something else.

0:28:46What is that?

0:28:47We're talking about it on the show.

0:28:48I was like, okay.

0:28:49Yeah.

0:28:50Talk about it on the show.

0:28:51What about your iPad mini, Mike?

0:28:52Is it, is it going to be jettisoned to a family member or.

0:28:57I think it's going to have to be, I'm giving it a little bit more time because what I thought

0:29:02I would want to keep it for is for reading comics at night because the screen is so small

0:29:07and the products are so small.

0:29:08It makes it very easy to hold, right?

0:29:10Like the 11 inch while thin and light is still bigger, you know what I mean?

0:29:13And it's like, it makes it a bit more cumbersome, but the screen is just so much better.

0:29:18Right?

0:29:19So like the comics I'm reading look better on an OLED screen than the, I would say sub

0:29:25par LCD screen of the iPad mini.

0:29:30It's not as good as the other iPads.

0:29:33And so I keep looking at that mini and I'm like, I love you little guy, but I'm just

0:29:38not sure.

0:29:39I don't think I can do it.

0:29:41Like I think I've got to go.

0:29:42You had a good time together.

0:29:43I think I've got to go with the 11 inch.

0:29:44Now it's time to move on.

0:29:46Yeah.

0:29:47We had a great time together, me and Patrick.

0:29:48Like we had a wonderful love affair, but I think it's time to move on.

0:29:53Love affair you would say?

0:29:54Yeah.

0:29:55Okay.

0:29:56I'm going to let go of my short king and I'm going for a tall guy now.

0:29:59Looking for some, something else.

0:30:02I wonder what you were going to say there, Stephen.

0:30:04I just, no, I just stopped.

0:30:05I just stopped.

0:30:06You just immediately just jettisoned out of that one.

0:30:09What have you done?

0:30:10You don't have the magic keyboard.

0:30:11You're just using the smart folio.

0:30:14I got a smart folio in denim.

0:30:18It's a useless color, but it's, it's nice.

0:30:21Like, and I think, I think it was an upgrade.

0:30:24Jason says something that blew my mind.

0:30:25It was like, I keep my iPad pro in the folio and then I put it in the magic keyboard.

0:30:30Do I need the keyboard?

0:30:31And I've always used mine the other way around.

0:30:33And so I'm going to give that a try.

0:30:35I'm going to leave the magic keyboard at my desk, like in the drawer, and then when it's

0:30:39time to like take it someplace to a meeting or something, or when, you know, do a little

0:30:44light email or something on it, then, uh, then slap it in the keyboard.

0:30:48See how that goes.

0:30:49Hmm.

0:30:50Cause it doesn't feel drastically thinner with the magic keyboard on it compared to the old

0:30:54one.

0:30:55It is, but the smart folio really makes it feel thinner.

0:30:58That's a good idea.

0:30:59Keeping it because I've also been like, now that you mentioned it, I've also been doing

0:31:03it the other way around.

0:31:04Like it's always in the magic keyboard and I've been keeping like the smart folio usually

0:31:08on my nightstand because that's what I want to do.

0:31:10Like non-work things on the iPad at night, like watch a movie or play a video game or

0:31:15something.

0:31:16But I am intrigued by thinking about it the other way around actually.

0:31:20Yeah.

0:31:21Interesting.

0:31:22It's good.

0:31:23Uh, it's a good iPad.

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0:32:54Federico, we've all been holding our breath, waiting to see what you were going to do with

0:33:02the Mac pad with the new iPad Pro out.

0:33:06I know you went to the 13 inch this time.

0:33:09You have a story on Mac stories about some of this.

0:33:12How's that gone?

0:33:13Are you liking it?

0:33:14How's the OLED life with the Mac pad?

0:33:17It's incredible.

0:33:18OLED looks really, really nice on Mac OS.

0:33:23Being the iPad Pro ready for the Mac pad was like a 10 minute deal.

0:33:26I just, I knew that I was going to have to get, that I needed to get like this back cover

0:33:33that I had to cut just like I did with the previous one, attach three magnets to it and

0:33:39then it was good to go because like the MacBook was already, of course, half of the MacBook

0:33:46was already good to go.

0:33:47I just needed to prepare the mounting system, which will be the back cover on the iPad with

0:33:52three magnets lined up.

0:33:54And yeah, there was a 10 minute deal and I just ran my shortcut to enable sidecar and

0:34:00there it was, Mac OS on OLED, which looks fantastic.

0:34:04I mean, the wallpapers look especially good.

0:34:07And even like something that Jason mentioned in his review of the iPad Pro, which is you

0:34:11can tell the quality of OLED even just by looking at things like black text on a white

0:34:16background.

0:34:17Like, I also noticed that on Mac OS with like the names of folders and files in Finder when

0:34:25you're using light mode, like I can tell that the black color of the text is crisper and

0:34:31darker than before, which is nice.

0:34:35And yeah, then, then like, I guess the more interesting part of this experiment, which

0:34:40is something that I'm still working on, is something that is still a bit of a work in

0:34:46progress.

0:34:47And that is, so in this current version of the Mac pad, when I detach the screen, so

0:34:53when I grab the iPad, the iPad, I only have a back cover for it, right?

0:35:00It doesn't have a front anymore.

0:35:04And I was thinking about this and I realized, well, it's not convenient.

0:35:09Like it works as a mounting system, but then I don't have a folio anymore.

0:35:15Like it's just the back because the front I cut with a knife.

0:35:20And so I started thinking, is there a way that I can actually keep the best of both

0:35:25worlds, which would be attach the iPad as a screen for the Mac pad, but also when I

0:35:31detach it, I can have a folio that does all the things that folio does, which is there's

0:35:37a front cover and you can fold it and you can prop it up on your lap or on a desk or

0:35:42you can use it to type in landscape or something.

0:35:46So I started playing around with these ideas and I had a first version based on a mod for

0:35:54the Apple Smart Folio.

0:35:56I attached three magnets to the front of the Smart Folio and I realized that if I fold

0:36:04the folio in a particular way, which is different from the default one, there was a way to attach,

0:36:11there's a photo on Mac stories that shows what I mean.

0:36:15There was a way to attach the folio without cutting anything to the Mac pad.

0:36:22But when I did that, I noticed that the iPad would tilt backwards because that folded section,

0:36:32the iPad essentially became a lever and it would cause that folded section to, well,

0:36:38unfold because of the weight.

0:36:41So I put together this very ugly, I gotta say it's very ugly, it works, but it's ugly,

0:36:50prototype that uses a Velcro strip to keep that folded section together.

0:36:57And so go check out the photos because it's easier to see in practice what I mean.

0:37:02This solution works and I've been using it.

0:37:06It's a way to keep a working Smart Folio that when you detach the iPad from the MacBook,

0:37:15it's still a Smart Folio that you can fold, that you can close on top of the iPad.

0:37:19I don't love this first version because I used magnets that are too big, so I want to

0:37:28do a second revision with smaller magnets and also I used too much Velcro.

0:37:35I tried, as I mentioned in the story, I tried replacing Velcro with micro suction tape.

0:37:40It doesn't work because the weight of the iPad is too much.

0:37:46So I will need to use Velcro again.

0:37:48Maybe I can find a thinner Velcro, but for sure I gotta use less of it because I was

0:37:54a little too concerned in this first take on this experiment and I used too much.

0:38:01And so in the second revision, if I can find a thinner Velcro, that would be ideal, but

0:38:08also use less of it.

0:38:10The Velcro is to kind of hold the cover of the Smart Cover out of the way basically,

0:38:17right?

0:38:18Yes.

0:38:19So if you take a look at the photos, when the front part of the cover folds on itself

0:38:27and I attach it to the magnets, without the Velcro, the iPad would tilt backwards.

0:38:34The magnets need to be stuck to the rigid part of the Smart Cover, which goes on the

0:38:40back.

0:38:41Yes.

0:38:42Yes.

0:38:43So that part, because of the weight of the iPad, it's because the iPad in that configuration

0:38:46is very top heavy, so the top part of the iPad would push the cover backwards and so

0:38:54the Velcro acts as a resistance in the bottom section.

0:38:58And so even though there's weight, the Velcro keeps it together.

0:39:03This is where I'm probably going to need Dr. Drang to design a magnet.

0:39:07You need a structural engineer at this point.

0:39:09I need an engineer to take care of this for me.

0:39:11So Dr, if you're listening, hit me with any tips as long as it doesn't involve any equations.

0:39:17But yeah, I'm liking this a lot.

0:39:21Yeah.

0:39:22Go check out the pictures.

0:39:25And that's...

0:39:26Yeah, I've been using it.

0:39:29It's lovely with OLED.

0:39:31It works amazingly well.

0:39:32And yeah, the MacPad lives on, even with the new iPad Pro.

0:39:38It looks much better with the 13 inch.

0:39:41It's much more visually balanced than before.

0:39:44Mike saw the original version in real life and it looked funny with the 11 inch iPad

0:39:49Pro.

0:39:50Now it looks much better.

0:39:51So yeah, go MacPad.

0:39:53Go MacPad.

0:39:54It's kind of the beauty of this product, right?

0:39:57Is that you can update it component by component.

0:40:00Yeah.

0:40:01Yeah.

0:40:02Imagine that.

0:40:03I'm just so curious to say, naked robotic core.

0:40:05That's right.

0:40:06It's like that.

0:40:07I don't think he was talking about cutting a MacBook Air in half, but...

0:40:09I mean, it's more naked if you're cutting the screen off.

0:40:13It's more naked than it was previously.

0:40:14It's more something.

0:40:15Yeah.

0:40:16I feel like say that you want to update to an M4 MacBook Air or something.

0:40:21And they were like, yeah, you can do these things separately.

0:40:24That's pretty cool.

0:40:25Yeah.

0:40:26Yeah.

0:40:27Or maybe a Co-Pilot plus Windows PC.

0:40:28You know what I mean?

0:40:29Oh, we can talk about that.

0:40:30We're going to get to that.

0:40:33Don't you worry.

0:40:34You can do anything.

0:40:35You can do anything now.

0:40:36We're going to get to that.

0:40:37You put a Surface on top of the MacBook.

0:40:39It's like, you're free.

0:40:41Yeah.

0:40:42I know, Federico, you've spoken about macOS being usable on the 11-inch display when you're

0:40:48in that mode.

0:40:49Yeah.

0:40:50But is it better, noticeably better on the 13?

0:40:52Oh, yeah.

0:40:53I mean, yes, it is.

0:40:54It absolutely is.

0:40:55It feels...

0:40:56It's a traditional computer display.

0:40:59It was fine before.

0:41:00Like, I remember being a huge fan of the 11-inch MacBook Air a decade ago or something when

0:41:05it was around.

0:41:06What a beautiful time that was, you know?

0:41:07Great computer.

0:41:08They should do one again, but they won't.

0:41:11So it was usable.

0:41:13It's obviously much better on the 13.

0:41:17It makes more sense.

0:41:18And, yeah, the window sizes, they're more comfortable.

0:41:22The dock is the proper size.

0:41:25Like, everything makes more sense on the 13-inch.

0:41:28Yeah.

0:41:29Yeah.

0:41:30They've sold Macs smaller than that now, right?

0:41:32You are now fully in MacBook-size screen territory.

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0:44:01We spoke last week a lot about OpenAI's announcements and commented that the voice sounded a little

0:44:08familiar and turns out that they done goofed or committed a crime.

0:44:15That's a way to say it.

0:44:16Done goofed.

0:44:17Would you mind if I give my attempt at an abridged version of the chain of events?

0:44:23Please.

0:44:24Please.

0:44:25OpenAI had a voice named Sky.

0:44:27This voice predated the GPT-4O launch.

0:44:31It was one of the pre-selected voices that you can have because they've had the voice

0:44:35thing for a while.

0:44:38This voice sounded an awful lot like Scarlett Johansson, essentially referencing her role

0:44:45in the movie, her where she plays a voice AI.

0:44:49During the launch of GPT-4O, they spent a lot more time with the voice stuff than they

0:44:57had previously.

0:44:58It's actually the entire presentation really, talking to and hearing it talk back.

0:45:08They were also showing off improvements that they were making to the voice technology to

0:45:12make it sound more real like breath and stuff like that.

0:45:18Lots of people also recognise the voice similarities to Johansson.

0:45:22They were like, "Oh, this sounds just like her.

0:45:25It was in media."

0:45:26There was an SNL joke about it, which is particularly funny because the person who said the joke

0:45:35is Scarlett's husband, Colin Jost.

0:45:39OpenAI will get lots of questions about this because it's like, "Hey, this sounds like

0:45:45that very famous actress who was in that movie."

0:45:49Sam Altman tweeted the word "her" after the presentation.

0:45:55OpenAI took the voice down after receiving lots of questions about it.

0:46:00Then Scarlett Johansson released a statement.

0:46:03Should I read the statement?

0:46:07Last September, I received an offer from Sam Altman who wanted to hire me to voice the

0:46:12current ChatGPT 4.0 system.

0:46:15So I've read this initially and thought, "Was that written wrong?

0:46:19Did that mean 4.0?"

0:46:20I was like, "No, actually that's GPT 4."

0:46:23Which is when they brought the voice in and also last September.

0:46:28He told me that he felt that by voicing the system, I could bridge the gap between tech

0:46:32companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift

0:46:36concerning humans and AI.

0:46:38He said he felt that my voice would be comforting to people.

0:46:41After much consideration and for personal reasons, I declined the offer.

0:46:459 months later, my friends, family and the general public all noted how much the newest

0:46:50system named Sky sounded like me.

0:46:54When I heard the release demo, I was shocked, angered and disbelief that Mr Altman would

0:46:58pursue a voice that sounded so eerily similar to mine that my closest friends and news outlets

0:47:02could not tell the difference.

0:47:03Mr Altman even insinuated that the similarity was intentional to eating a single word "her",

0:47:08a reference to the film in which I voiced the chat system Samantha who forms an intimate

0:47:12relationship with a human.

0:47:14Two days before the chat GPT 4.0 demo was released, but Mr Altman contacted my agent

0:47:24asking me to reconsider.

0:47:25Before we would reconnect, the system was out there.

0:47:28As a result of their actions, I was forced to hire legal counsel who wrote two letters

0:47:32to Mr Altman and OpenAI, setting out what they had done and asking them to detail the

0:47:36exact process by which they recreated the Sky voice.

0:47:39Consequently, OpenAI reluctantly agreed to take down the Sky voice.

0:47:43In a time when we were all grappling with deep fakes and the protection of our own likeness,

0:47:48our own work, our own identities and I believe there are questions that deserve absolute

0:47:53clarity, I look forward to resolution in the form of transparency in the passage of appropriate

0:47:58legislation to help ensure that individual rights are protected.

0:48:02All time great statement, once again Scarlett Johansson is out there sticking it to the

0:48:08big companies, don't forget she sued Disney and won.

0:48:11I think they settled but nevertheless she was right in what she was doing at the time

0:48:16than she is right now.

0:48:20OpenAI are saying that this is a coincidence and that it is another voice actor who just

0:48:29so happens to sound like Scarlett Johansson.

0:48:34Which I just believe is a lie.

0:48:40One of these things is a lie.

0:48:42Either it's a lie that it is a voice actor who just so happens to sound like her or what

0:48:50I honestly think is happening is this is a synthetic voice that they created, trained

0:48:54on her voice.

0:48:55I don't know if you two had experienced it all but I have access to GPT 4.0 and so

0:49:03you can talk to it and the voice is still good but not as good and my voice was set

0:49:09to the sky voice and when I was on vacation I wanted to see how Adina would talk to it

0:49:15because she's not going to be kind to the machine where I might be in that way, she

0:49:21was just asking it questions where I might let things go or phrase things in such a way

0:49:26that I know I'm talking to a computer.

0:49:28She had a conversation with it for a couple of minutes and was asking it advice about

0:49:31what we could do on our trip.

0:49:33It just sounded like her.

0:49:35I don't believe for a second that this is a coincidence because it sounded just like

0:49:41her.

0:49:42So that's kind of the news as it is so far.

0:49:47The really damning part in my mind is that they contacted her agent two days before the

0:49:52demo.

0:49:55This is like when my kids were younger and you come in and there's like a mess in the

0:49:59kitchen or in their room like hey did you make this mess you're the only one here like

0:50:03no I don't know who made this mess like well you did you're just lying to me very transparently

0:50:08and I mean as bad as this is and this is pretty bad really bad and boy to your point Mike

0:50:17they mess with the wrong person I would not want to be on the other end of Scarlett Johansson's

0:50:21lawyers but this is yet another example of this company and probably other companies

0:50:30in this field using information that's not theirs to build their products right remember

0:50:35the thing a couple of weeks ago when their CTO was asked if Sora was was trained on YouTube

0:50:43video YouTube videos and there's like it's not an answer like well yeah of course it

0:50:48was oh we trained different things we found on the internet yeah like the youtube.com

0:50:52website this is the same to me the same sort of we can do whatever we want get out of our

0:51:00way that I find increasingly distasteful from this company and it just they they think they

0:51:08can just do whatever they want to get away with it like I don't they may not in this

0:51:12case but it is it is really gross well they don't care right that it's this is their attitude

0:51:20I guess it's just we're the cool guys and and we are changing the tech industry we can

0:51:26do whatever we want which I think it's a that's a very toxic attitude honestly like just disregarding

0:51:33completely I mean getting in touch with her agent two days before and yeah just going

0:51:38ahead because hey what's what what are they gonna do to us you know like we have billions

0:51:42of dollars what like I really dislike everything about this honestly. The thing that like I

0:51:50think annoys me the most is the stupidity of it like you didn't need to do any of this

0:51:57and it would have been fine you know like none of these things had to happen you you

0:52:00didn't need to get Scarlett Johansson anyway like you didn't need to get her voice right

0:52:07like it doesn't matter it could just be any voice why does it need to be the voice from

0:52:11the movie which I know this is like an old joke at this point but like that movie ends

0:52:17real bad like I don't understand why you want to make that connection so much and also why

0:52:23like Altman thinks that like her like the her voice would be the right thing to bridge

0:52:31the gap like that doesn't make any sense. Yeah you missed the message of the film. Yes

0:52:38and like I just GPT 4.0 is really impressive no one cares now right this is completely

0:52:47overshadowed it and so like all of these people inside of open AI have done the work that

0:52:51they've done to make this technology. Well there's fewer people than there used to be

0:52:54did you see like the flood of people leaving in the wake of the demos? Yeah I don't know

0:52:59about all of that like I don't really know I heard about a couple of executives left

0:53:04right I don't know about anybody else personally but like yeah some of it was some of the people

0:53:08behind the coup like the the other executive that was part of that yeah and then some people

0:53:15apparently on the product safety team left as well. Okay I mean like I don't know what

0:53:20that was all in relation to I think that might just be like the fallout of the coup. Yeah

0:53:25yeah my point was just all the people working there and I was just like well there's fewer

0:53:29people than there used to be I don't think there was like a Scarlett Johansson protest

0:53:33within the company. Okay I was sorry I wasn't sure if that was what what you what you meant

0:53:38but like all of these people did this work and like now it kind of doesn't matter right

0:53:43and it's all just because of the the idiocy of Altman in this scenario right it's just

0:53:49like why even do any of this like what are you doing like you should be doing everything

0:53:55you possibly can to make people warm up to your company. Yeah. Because people are rightly

0:54:02so really hesitant of this right and like this is like this era of technology has promise

0:54:12there are interesting things that are going on but there's also a lot of really unsettling

0:54:18things that are going on you don't need to add to the unsettling by doing things that

0:54:23don't even make any sense like why would you do this? I want to read a quick quote from

0:54:29Casey Newton a platformer. It's narrative about so open AI's narrative about the Johansson

0:54:36debacle is essentially that its chief executive slipped on a series of banana peels over the

0:54:40last nine months until they were trapped in an uncanny valley between one of the world's

0:54:43most famous actresses and another actress whom it declines to name who sounds just like

0:54:48her. For me it's the slipped on a series of banana peels thing where it's just like whoa

0:54:55I didn't mean to do any of this like it's all just so happened to occur like it's just

0:55:00so stupid and juvenile it's like you're supposed to be in charge of this massive company just

0:55:05act like an adult. And if you hired somebody else to have that person come out and make

0:55:11a statement and it all goes away or it gets better at least. Like I'm sorry like to me

0:55:17look the idea of like we're protecting this person's privacy that doesn't hold water with

0:55:22no that feels like the kind of thing you would say when you're trying to protect the fact

0:55:25that nobody exists. Like what is the like what what's the issue here like voice actors

0:55:34all the time they're accredited well you can't credit this one what's the what's the concern

0:55:38around this like I don't I don't understand what that concern is. Yeah we know who did

0:55:42the original Siri voice like you know come on. To me that it just feels like we're trying

0:55:47to hide this. I mean look I don't know what scholar Janssen's move is going to be I don't

0:55:52know if she's going to try and file a lawsuit if she does and if she's successful to do

0:55:57so I think she has the ability to do it. Oh yeah. And maybe we'll find out the answer

0:56:01but it's going to be a long way in the future and maybe people won't care about it anymore

0:56:04but I think she's done a great job here of kind of exposing them I think done very well

0:56:10to be honest I think she's she's kind of crushed it but it just it just disappoints me it disappoints

0:56:16me and then I think about what are we four weeks away from from Sam Altman maybe appearing

0:56:22at WWDC. Hey everyone I made a new voice it's called Tim. It's called Tom. It's called Tom.

0:56:37I always wonder what happens at Microsoft when these sorts of things happen right Microsoft

0:56:44has put a lot of money in this company a lot of their co-pilot stuff which we're talking

0:56:48about next powered by this during the coup they offered Sam Altman a job and he turned

0:56:56it down to go back to the company that tried it I'll see him like I want to know everything

0:57:00about that relationship but you know someone at Microsoft like when this news broke they

0:57:04just they just slammed their head into their desk. Yeah I think they kind of expect it

0:57:10from them now though like I don't know how much you've you to follow this but like Microsoft

0:57:16is buying up more AI companies like they're essentially building within Microsoft a team

0:57:21where they can just plug them in yeah get rid of open AI as they should they should

0:57:26own their technology but like I think open AI has brought them to the dance right and

0:57:31like now they're building the infrastructure that they need to leave it's like you know

0:57:37after all this it's like yes I expect that every time something like this happens such

0:57:41as just like I don't want to have to deal with this right like you're you're like we're

0:57:46trying to do a thing over here and you know like he was at build like the next day after

0:57:51this and it's just like you're just you're embarrassing me but it at least seems like

0:57:55he is making the moves that he would need to try and get rid of them and move over to

0:58:02whatever there is but I think that it would be particularly awkward for Apple because

0:58:07if they're going if they are actually going to announce a brand new partnerships like

0:58:12oh so you decided still a brand new like that's going to be the question where it's like with

0:58:18Microsoft it's a little bit like well we're already in bed together like you know the

0:58:22the the it'd be weird it's going to be I think more complicated to be like no we made the

0:58:26decision now that we're going to do this so I'm very intrigued to see how that's going

0:58:30to go.

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1:00:49So there was a Microsoft Surface event earlier this week followed by the Microsoft Build

1:00:56conference I believe.

1:00:58And of course at the Surface event the big news is the debut of these brand new AI PCs

1:01:04that Microsoft is not calling AI PCs, they're calling Co-Pilot Plus PCs.

1:01:11Which is an interesting name to say the least.

1:01:14Co-Pilot Plus...

1:01:15Are you guys familiar with the fact that they actually already have things that are called

1:01:19Co-Pilot PCs?

1:01:21No but I'm not surprised.

1:01:23It's a different thing.

1:01:25Oh my god that is so Microsoft.

1:01:27Isn't that great?

1:01:28It's so Microsoft.

1:01:30I really like the Co-Pilot branding.

1:01:33Me too I think it's great branding.

1:01:34But you got to deploy it in a more reasonable fashion at Microsoft.

1:01:39So this Co-Pilot Plus PCs obviously we know Microsoft is going all in on AI and they've

1:01:47been doing that for the past two years really.

1:01:52But what's different about these new computers, so there's a new Surface laptop and there's

1:01:56a new Surface Pro 11.

1:01:59Is that...

1:02:00They skipped the 10 right?

1:02:02Well they're actually not numbering them.

1:02:04They're not numbering it.

1:02:05Yeah.

1:02:06The 10 is business only I believe.

1:02:07The Surface Pro 10 is just for business customers.

1:02:10They didn't number this one.

1:02:13The thing about these computers is that they're running on a brand new ARM based architecture.

1:02:20So this is the long rumored Qualcomm made Snapdragon X processors.

1:02:26They're going to power these Windows machines.

1:02:28And specifically there's two versions of the Snapdragon X.

1:02:32There's the Plus and the Elite.

1:02:35Now what's really remarkable here is that we can get to the details about like how Microsoft

1:02:44is doing this transition from the X86 architecture to an ARM based architecture.

1:02:52They tried years ago.

1:02:53It didn't exactly work out in terms of developer adoption, app compatibility and a bunch of

1:02:58other issues.

1:02:59It seems like this may be the time they actually do it.

1:03:03But what I find fascinating is the comparisons to the M series chips to Apple silicon and

1:03:10specifically Microsoft saying we are beating the MacBook Air with these computers.

1:03:18That I find interesting because from a certain perspective in terms of just raw AI numbers

1:03:27it may even be true if you consider how these processors perform and all the different large

1:03:34language models that Microsoft has embedded within Windows at this point.

1:03:38I believe there's about 40 different models that Microsoft has in Windows.

1:03:44But I still struggle to see these computers as having the kind of performance of a MacBook

1:03:53Air in terms of running cool and being thin and that's not even to mention of course the

1:03:59Surface Pro compared to the incredible thinness of an iPad Pro.

1:04:04But they're using different metrics to compare these copilot Plus PCs to MacBook Airs.

1:04:10And so I wanted to ask you guys first of all, silly name aside, do you find this interesting

1:04:18as an idea of an AI first computer?

1:04:22Well, I mean...

1:04:25Or do you find it silly?

1:04:26No, I don't find it silly.

1:04:28I mean, to me it's just like, well, I do believe I've come around to the idea that like, look,

1:04:35love it or hate it.

1:04:36This is the next phase of computing now.

1:04:39Like we're in it.

1:04:40And so like the idea of a AI focused PC is funny to me because it's just like, I do think

1:04:46that within five years that's just a PC.

1:04:49It's new now.

1:04:50It's like saying if the smartphone was invented now, oh, this is a camera phone.

1:04:56It's like, yeah, well...

1:04:57Or just like, what do you guys think about this new touch focused phone?

1:05:03You know, like I genuinely think we're just in it now.

1:05:07The thing that I find the most interesting, some of the stuff they're putting in Windows

1:05:12is interesting to me, but the thing I find the most interesting is how hard they are

1:05:18bringing it to Apple.

1:05:20I like this.

1:05:23I like this.

1:05:24Yes, do it.

1:05:26Just go for it.

1:05:27And like they're saying, I mean, I listened to the Verge cast and Tom Warren was saying

1:05:31that like he was in a briefing with Microsoft for multiple hours where they would just,

1:05:37they had a MacBook Air and the Surface laptop next to each other and they were just doing

1:05:41benchmark after benchmark.

1:05:43Like they are not just saying that this is more powerful in AI.

1:05:47They're saying it is more powerful in everything.

1:05:50They're saying it has longer battery life.

1:05:52Like they're just saying like all in all, this machine is better.

1:05:55Now they probably have fans in them.

1:05:58Right.

1:05:59You sound about the coolness thing.

1:06:00It's like, okay, like a lot of people are bringing this up.

1:06:01Like I think John Cooper wrote about it too.

1:06:04I don't know if that matters.

1:06:05Like I don't, you know, like, okay, like it does, you know, whatever.

1:06:09But like it's probably more powerful than a MacBook Pro then.

1:06:13Right.

1:06:14Like, you know, it's just like, whatever.

1:06:19To me, the thing that is interesting here is that they are building computers that look

1:06:22compelling and they are putting these features into their operating system and then they're

1:06:27saying this is better than Apple's laptops.

1:06:29And I'm just like, all right, like this is it.

1:06:32I like this from Microsoft.

1:06:33Let's see what they got.

1:06:34Yeah.

1:06:35Are you guys familiar with where these chips came from?

1:06:38Yes, I am.

1:06:40Okay.

1:06:41So this is, they're Qualcomm chips, but a while back Qualcomm bought a company founded

1:06:47by a bunch of people who left Apple who worked on Apple Silicon.

1:06:51Yep.

1:06:52It's a company called Nuvia.

1:06:53Nuvia.

1:06:54Interesting.

1:06:55And Qualcomm just said, we'll give you whatever you need, make us the chips.

1:07:00And these are the chips.

1:07:01And they did.

1:07:02Yeah.

1:07:03And this is a pretty remarkable chip.

1:07:04In terms of like for AI, they're saying like 40 trillion operations per second.

1:07:12Like this Snapdragon X architecture, like it is a serious thing.

1:07:16And the fact that Microsoft is saying we're not just comparable to a MacBook Air.

1:07:20We are superior in terms of performance to the M3.

1:07:25Like that is a serious claim.

1:07:28And they're saying that these computers, like they're claiming, like I was just checking

1:07:32the Surface Pro specs page.

1:07:34They're claiming 14 hours of battery life for a tablet, which, you know, different kind

1:07:41of tablet in many regards.

1:07:43But yeah, it's like this is a serious effort in terms of bringing an R base architecture

1:07:50to Windows and now will it work this time around?

1:07:55I think it will.

1:07:57The question remains, what is the app story?

1:08:00Like that is their issue of like how many apps are actually going to come?

1:08:04And they announced a bunch of important apps like Photoshop and others are like they're

1:08:08bringing, they're going to make native versions.

1:08:11Isn't Fantastical also coming to Windows because of this?

1:08:14It was on a slide and then there was a tweet or a thread post by somebody who said it was

1:08:20coming, but I don't, I would not be surprised.

1:08:22I mean, it makes sense for them to do that.

1:08:26To your point, Mike, and to yours, Frederick, really, the reason this is so interesting

1:08:30to me is that this is Windows on ARM in a way we've never seen it before.

1:08:36And the software and the hardware both have held it back, but in particular the software,

1:08:40if you go back, whatever it was, eight years or whatever, 10 years to the Surface RT, that

1:08:45thing failed because the hardware was underpowered, but also because there was no software for

1:08:49it.

1:08:50And Microsoft has taken their sweet, sweet time to get Windows ready to get their emulation

1:08:55ready.

1:08:56And in that time, now they have this chip.

1:08:59So now things are coming together and either John or Ben said this on dithering, I forget

1:09:05which one, but this feels like a turning point in the decline of x86 and Intel is going to

1:09:14have with Lunar Lake, a next gen processor.

1:09:17They're going to have, you know, co-pilot plus PC stuff ready, but ARM is where these

1:09:24things are happening.

1:09:26And if these devices and the software do all really work as well as Microsoft says they

1:09:33do, this very well could be the turning point where, hey, x86, not on the Mac anymore.

1:09:42It's going to be a long time before it's not a Windows anywhere.

1:09:44Like it's a very long transition, but this feels like a very big step towards that future.

1:09:50I genuinely think the Intel thing is just there because Microsoft are being nice to

1:09:54them.

1:09:55I think so too.

1:09:57I think x86 is over.

1:10:00They can also still use them.

1:10:02Like Steven said, it's going to be a long transition and there's probably many reasons

1:10:07for Microsoft to remain partners with Intel for lower spec'd computers.

1:10:15The Windows world is so different from the Apple one.

1:10:18It makes sense, like they're the kind of company that is built to have multiple partners.

1:10:24But yeah, this is the question is how good is their emulation layer?

1:10:29Because if it's still not good enough, this won't work.

1:10:33Right.

1:10:34So to give you like I posted on threads about the gaming angle, for example, which is obviously

1:10:39an interesting one because those are some of the along with 3D applications and like

1:10:43professional applications, like 3D graphics is one of the most intensive things that you

1:10:47can ask a system on a chip in this case.

1:10:50Like this is not a keep in mind, this is not a system with a discrete GPU.

1:10:55This is just like Apple Silicon.

1:10:57It's like a single system on a chip that has a GPU inside of it.

1:11:00The Mac Pro wins in the end.

1:11:05This is not these are not computers with a discrete dedicated GPU.

1:11:10It's just one Snapdragon X system on a chip.

1:11:15Now for the emulation layer, so I think Microsoft is telling a really compelling story, much,

1:11:22much more compelling than whatever Apple did last year with that Mac OS compatibility thing

1:11:29for gaming that nobody ever really took advantage of.

1:11:34So they're saying that they have a thousand games that are already sort of have already

1:11:39been tested and are playable or basically just complete like sort of like Steam's proton

1:11:46thing like they have passed the compatibility checks.

1:11:50So a thousand games and mostly you could expect these games without any optimizations to run

1:11:57at 720p or 1080p 30 frames per second.

1:12:00For example, they showed Baldur's Gate 3, which is a game from last year, like a massive

1:12:06game from last year running, I believe, somewhere in between 720p and 1080p at 30 frames per

1:12:11second. Now, you may say, well, that's not impressive. But, again, this is a system on

1:12:16a chip without a discrete GPU using an emulation layer and running that game at 1080p 30 frames

1:12:24per second in a tablet? It is pretty remarkable for a first take.

1:12:30That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

1:12:31It's pretty good. It's pretty good. And you can imagine that, like, I have a feeling that

1:12:37Microsoft and Qualcomm are absolutely going to take Apple to task here when it comes to

1:12:41gaming, because, like, they can tell and they can offer a much more compelling alternative

1:12:48than whatever Apple has in store for the App Store and Apple Arcade, because the signs

1:12:55are pretty much in the open that Microsoft, they're going to do a gaming handheld and

1:13:03it's going to be... Most likely at this point, it's going to be based on this chip on the

1:13:10Snapdragon X series. Now, you can imagine that sort of Xbox handheld that has full on compatibility

1:13:17with games on Windows with this kind of battery life. And also, I will point you to the...

1:13:25President of Xbox, Sarah Bond, I want to say?

1:13:30Yep.

1:13:31Saying that they have assembled a dedicated Xbox game preservation team for future backward

1:13:38compatibility. Now, why is that?

1:13:43I can think of something.

1:13:44I mean, they're also saying, like, as well, like, that the next Xbox that they're working

1:13:48on is going to be the most powerful games console ever made by a long margin. And yeah,

1:13:55maybe this is part of how they get to that, right? Like this kind of technology. I mean,

1:13:58we've seen it. We've seen what happens when you go to arm, like your power and your amount

1:14:03of power per watt and that kind of stuff. It just goes through the roof and that could

1:14:07be a big leap for this kind of system too.

1:14:10Yeah. So the final thing I will say is that over the past few years, and rightfully so

1:14:15in our community, because this is what we do for a living, we've been focused on the

1:14:18incredible improvements of the Apple Silicon and M series. But I just wanted to point out

1:14:25that, like, it's not like Qualcomm has been just resting on their laurels and doing nothing.

1:14:31You can get some pretty remarkable Android phones, like especially the Snapdragon 8 Gen

1:14:373. That's just the amount of chip and the Adreno-based GPU that they have. You can play

1:14:43some Android games and do some emulation in 4K with some really remarkable performance.

1:14:48Now, of course, the app ecosystem is different between iOS and Android. But if I were Apple,

1:14:55you know, competition is good in this case. And Qualcomm proving that they can work with

1:14:59Microsoft to bring Snapdragon to a desktop operating system with a gaming angle. It's

1:15:04very remarkable. And yeah, it's competition is great.

1:15:09Over on Ars Technica, Andrew Cunningham has an article about Prism, which is Microsoft's

1:15:16emulation. You know, we have Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs. And Andrew writes that

1:15:23with a upcoming Windows 11 update, that those translated apps will run between 10 and 20%

1:15:31faster just with the Windows update. And that Prism's performance is, quote, similar to

1:15:36Rosetta's, although obviously this depends on the speed of the hardware you're running

1:15:40it on. And that's another benefit of these ARM chips. They are so fast. If there is any

1:15:46penalty for emulation, and it's not really like emulation is not really the word. It's

1:15:51translation. It's translating, not emulating. Then you make up the difference in the speed.

1:15:58And they've got a bunch of apps like you mentioned Adobe, but Dropbox and Chrome are native on

1:16:03ARM and Windows. This is happening. It does not answer the questions about dedicated GPUs.

1:16:11It doesn't really answer the question of like, you know, the the bajillion x86 PCs under

1:16:17people's work desks, like it's going to take a long time. But I'm telling you, I think

1:16:22we're gonna look back in a year or two. Like this, this is the time when the when the tide

1:16:27really started shifting for Windows on ARM. The other thing I want to talk to you all

1:16:32about is Microsoft recall. So this is a feature that was internally called AI Explorer. But

1:16:40it effectively looks at everything you're doing on your computer, and puts it on a timeline.

1:16:49So you can go back and see what's going on. If this sounds familiar, there was rewind

1:16:55AI, which was this Mac application that was going to do this. And that company has pivoted.

1:17:02But this is built into the OS into Windows. It will. There's some privacy stuff, you can

1:17:09say, you know, don't pay attention to these websites, you can pause or stop it. It's local

1:17:13and on device. But you can say, Hey, you know, I saw an email with this in it, or I was on

1:17:19a web page with that on it. Can you find it for me? And it scrolls back in time. I love

1:17:24the interface for it. I think the interface is really fun. Very reminiscent of time machine.

1:17:29Yeah, it is. And except like sideways instead of back into the screen.

1:17:35It's more colorful. And it's got my it looks like modern Microsoft. Like it looks great.

1:17:39But like, yeah.

1:17:40But this is this is a mean, it's a wild feature. I would imagine that there'll be a lot of

1:17:46people that turn this off, or a lot of companies that turn it off for their employees. But

1:17:51I'm curious, like, for us, is this something that you know, if this came to Mac OS, is

1:17:55this something that we would be interested in?

1:17:59This is the dream for me to have like the idea of total digital recall, without having

1:18:06to bookmark or like, explicitly save things. And I get it, I get it, the privacy concerns

1:18:14and everything. I'm sure if Apple ever did something similar, they would have better

1:18:18settings for things that you may want to exclude from your recall. But like, for me, this is

1:18:25exactly the perfect use of AI and a large language model. Like, see everything I do.

1:18:31I choose to let you see what I do. And then let me search using natural language things

1:18:37that I remember having seen on my computer, just not having saved them specifically anywhere.

1:18:43This is something that I really, really, really hope Apple does, not just on a Mac, like anywhere,

1:18:50like everywhere. I want to have this on all the devices that I use.

1:18:57We should note it does only work on some of these newer Co-Pilot Plus PCs with the Snapdragon

1:19:03X Elite chip. So this is a subset of new machines. The minimum storage space, Microsoft says

1:19:11hard drive space, but you know, solid storage space. The minimum required for the system

1:19:16is 256 gigs, but 50 gigs of available space, you know, for for this feature to work. And

1:19:23its default allocation is 25 gigs, which they say is about three months worth of snapshots,

1:19:29but you can change in the settings, how much storage allocation you you allow for this.

1:19:34So I'm interested to see how this is how this takes off if this is used in the world if

1:19:40people think this is creepy. We just don't know yet. And I think I think for me, like

1:19:46I am interested in something like this, but boy, I'd want to make sure that it's local

1:19:51because something like this, you know, basically screen reading everything you do. That's,

1:19:58you know, that's weird. It's not a very common thing at this point.

1:20:02Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm like struggling with it myself. I keep going backwards and forwards

1:20:09of like, I actually would really like to utility for what Federico's mentioning, like, I don't

1:20:13need to remember anything like it just remembers everything for me. Like, I love that. But

1:20:17there is also just this like, do I want the computer logging everything, like everything,

1:20:23every, you know, like, do I want that? I'm not sure that I do. And like, it's complicated.

1:20:31I think this is the thing I'm gonna have to like, come to terms with if something like

1:20:35this comes to Mac OS. It's just like a strange, it's just like a strange thing to think about

1:20:42that like, there is another thing that's watching every website I go to every app that I open

1:20:48every conversation I have, like if I have a an iMessage conversation with someone and

1:20:54delete the iMessage thread, like, it's still gonna, we're going back to that thing we were

1:20:58talking about earlier, right? Like the photos thing, like it's just reappearing. Like there

1:21:04is just this like another memory. It gets weird. It's just like a, it's a thing that

1:21:08we haven't had before other than web browsing history. And we all got used to web browsing

1:21:14history. So I'm sure we'd all get used to this. But yeah, I think this is something that

1:21:18I would eventually much prefer the utility of than a creepy thing. But there is also

1:21:23just like, security concerns, right? Like, real ones that we'd have to seriously consider

1:21:31that if someone got access to your computer, they have everything, everything now. Complicated.

1:21:39Yeah, it's new realm, right? It's just like a new thing we'd have to get used to. And

1:21:44yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. But also, I like the idea of it. So like, if this came

1:21:51to Mac OS, I would turn it on. But I would still be a bit like, sometimes when I'm thinking

1:21:56about the feature, so. Sure. Man, WWBC, a couple weeks away. Who knows? They're not going to

1:22:05get to this level. They're not going to do this. They're not going to do this. I'm still

1:22:09excited about WWBC. I want to see what they've got. But I'm starting to lower my expectations

1:22:15because everything is rising. And they're not going to be at this level. They're not.

1:22:20Because Microsoft started doing all this stuff ages ago. If you want to find links to the

1:22:26stories we spoke about, they're in your podcast player. They're also in the information super

1:22:32highway exit that is relay.fm/connected/503. Pull over. Check out those links. I got in

1:22:40trouble halfway through that sentence. I didn't know. No, I liked it. It was all really good.

1:22:44Like that's how we should say like, every website is an exit on the information super

1:22:49highway. And you've always got to turn on to that exit when you want to go to a website.

1:22:53That's great. That's right. If you want to find Federico, turn down Mac stories lane

1:22:58over at a macstories.net. Lots of great stories over there. I'm sure they're gearing up for

1:23:03WWBC. You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows here on relay FM and you can swing by

1:23:10Cortex brand on your way home and get something for the kids. Kids need notebooks and pens,

1:23:15right? Yeah. On the way home. Yeah. Pick up something for the kids. And I like 512pixels.net,

1:23:20which is Steven's home because it actually sounds like an address. It does. 512 pixels.

1:23:25Yes. Yes. You can, uh, you can stop by, you know, get a glass of tea, read about Emacs.

1:23:31Visit for a while, you know? Come on y'all. Visit for a while. That's one of my favorite

1:23:35Southern phrases. Like someone visits. Like we're just going to visit. I like that. It's

1:23:41cute. It's going to visit. If the, uh, the information super highways is not your thing

1:23:48and maybe you want to go down the social media expressway, you can do that. We're on Mastodon

1:23:56as Vitichi, iMike and ISMH 86 as a, as our own threads. It's all the same usernames everywhere

1:24:04now. It's all unified. Very, very exciting. You guys sound excited. Some of us have done

1:24:12that a while ago. Some of us didn't have that problem, but yes, it's very exciting that

1:24:17we're all unified now. You know, you're thinking about unification. What do you think about

1:24:22the three of us having just one social media account? What do you think? We just share

1:24:28it? Y'all can log in as connected. No, but what, will you want us all sending all of

1:24:32our thoughts in the connected account? No, like we all just, we'll just use it. What

1:24:36would our name be? Sti, Sti-Mike-o? Sti-Mike-o. Yeah, he sounds like a fine gentleman. Didn't

1:24:46we do this before? Probably. We've definitely done this before, but yeah, I think that would

1:24:52be a good idea. I think the three of us should have one account and we just post everything

1:24:56from it. So like one day it would be like, look at this thing I wrote about a Mac pad

1:25:00and then next day we're like, look at this podcast that I did. And the next day it would

1:25:04be like, look at this calendar that I'm selling, you know, that could be us. You have to look

1:25:08at that photo in the discord. Yeah, I mean, that could be us. Like that would be us, like

1:25:12final form, you know, where Mike and I got face melded to each other. Yeah. On top of

1:25:19Federico's buddy. Yeah. Who doesn't want to be there. Thank you to our sponsors this week.

1:25:27They are NetSuite, Ecamm, 1Password and Fitbod. You can learn more about them, the show notes

1:25:32as well. Thank you to our members who support us directly. You can get connected pro it's

1:25:37just seven bucks a month. That's a longer ad free version of the show that we do each

1:25:42and every week with extra topics. We pick titles at the end. Lots of fun things happen

1:25:47there, but relay members also get access to our members only discord, a newsletter and

1:25:52a couple of members only podcast we do each month. And in the month of May and June, we're

1:25:57doing our annual specials that all members get. So if you support connected, then you

1:26:03get, you know, the, the bonus episode of Mac power users and vice versa. All the shows,

1:26:09we just recorded ours today and it will be out tomorrow on May 23rd for members that's

1:26:12in the crossover feed. So go check that out. I think, uh, I think, I think people enjoy

1:26:17what we did. Tell them we talked about Titanic. Mike's favorite movie, Federico's favorite

1:26:22movie. Mike's favorite movie of Federico's Mike's favorite movie. He saw this week. Yeah.

1:26:31Yes. We talked about Titanic. Uh, it sinks spoiler alert. Oh, why would you do that?

1:26:38So many people were just like, well, they didn't know. They didn't know. It happened

1:26:42a hundred and 15 years ago. Okay. That's it. We'll be back next week until then say goodbye.

1:26:48I do this cheerio. Bye y'all.

1:26:51[ Silence ]