0:00:00how's that low-level see audio codec how does your working on I'm making progress
0:00:05do you have any hair left to pull out of your head Marco know this is why I cut
0:00:11it short to make to make that possible I knew I was gonna be working on car audio
0:00:16this week so I got a fresh haircut number two on the razor nice and that
0:00:20that means it's too short to realistically grab hold of my god I'm so
0:00:24that a handful maybe he might have been a little fingers extensors any free
0:00:32follow-up stuff we need to worry about there is no pre follow-up only post
0:00:36followup and follow-up and more follow follow up maybe the show is pre follow
0:00:43at this point she just called this the axonal follow-up podcast will this
0:00:46follow-up and then the main topics are really just pre follow up for next week
0:00:50its so true so let's do our follow up so we can get to the pre follow-up now we
0:00:56should probably start with it
0:00:58talking about our discussion about how to attract or encourage women and girls
0:01:05to listen to the show and unsurprisingly we got a lot of feedback about this and
0:01:11I i appreciate and I know we appreciate all the feedback
0:01:14a lot of it was really good pretty much all of it was really interesting in it
0:01:21it certainly opened my eyes a bit on with regard to how men reacted to it how
0:01:27women react to it and and so just a few things I think we should talk about
0:01:32upfront I think first and foremost we i I would say we caught a little bit of
0:01:39flak about spending so much time talking about advertisers and Harry's
0:01:43specifically and I think that's reasonable I think the the problem with
0:01:48the way the last episode when is that because we spent so much time talking
0:01:52about talking about the advertisers it appeared as though that was the thing we
0:01:59thought was the biggest priority just by virtue of the fact we spent so much time
0:02:03on it
0:02:04in reality that's not at all what any of us think is the biggest priority the
0:02:08first thing to change its just as per usual we got wrapped around the axle on
0:02:14that topic in I don't know if any of you ever heard the show but we sometimes get
0:02:18off in the weeds and that's exactly what happened and in I think while the
0:02:24discussion I think was good I don't mean for it and I am pretty sure you guys
0:02:28don't mean for it to be representative of what we think is the right approach
0:02:32to fix this problem it just so happens we got off in the weeds I think actually
0:02:37have it back up as I can
0:02:38here's how I maybe you all have different opinions of this feedback but
0:02:42here's how I would characterize the first person I want to say that I still
0:02:45feel like I'm I'm still processing that feedback I agree I'd like an ottoman
0:02:49partly because it still coming in and probably become as I think it was like
0:02:53the most upsetting to me feedback that we've ever gotten the show and there was
0:02:59a wide wide range of responses feedback was all over the map but the title of
0:03:04the top of that map was probably like you guys are dummies I got people like
0:03:08this was skewed way negative like consensus is we are dummies and it's not
0:03:14to say that it's not useful but like sometimes we get feedback that's like
0:03:18just providing information or supportive or whatever but pretty much all this
0:03:22feedback was telling us things that we missed our area I mean some of it was I
0:03:27guess feedback from solicited feedback but it was fairly negative I do not that
0:03:33surprised me I think I was kind of dreading discussing this topic because I
0:03:37kind of figured this would be the the feedback we would get but the fact that
0:03:42I'm still processing it makes me feel like I don't I don't quite know what to
0:03:46think I'm and you i think what you highlighted is probably the only
0:03:51dominant theme that I saw in it because I guess even though it was mostly
0:03:55negative to a wide-ranging people have very different ideas about what we got
0:03:59wrong right so I was a wide range on the negative round but the one thing a lot
0:04:03of people seem to agree on your head is that
0:04:06regardless of how they felt about the ads the dad was not the core issue
0:04:11people who said you absolutely have to get rid of the ads also tends not the
0:04:15core issue people said you absolutely have to keep the ads also the added that
0:04:18the core issue right so that I feel like it's the only consensus that I could dry
0:04:21out of this so far two things one that we didn't do a very good job and to that
0:04:28the ad is a distraction regardless of how people feel about it what did you
0:04:31think of the name and I am I being too negative on the negativity Marco where
0:04:35did you get that impression as well now that was that was pretty much it i mean
0:04:39this was I mean I'm also still processing a lot of this I I would say
0:04:45just anecdotally added you guys feel the same way I would say anecdotally this is
0:04:49probably the most words we've gotten feedback on any topic it just it it has
0:04:55taken me a long time to even just reread the feedback email has been so much of
0:04:59it and and most of it has been had been very informative I mean overall you know
0:05:04there was definitely a prominent pattern to a lot of it that began with I'm a man
0:05:12but Anna giant ball of the text that showed really a pretty poor
0:05:18understanding of gender issues and technology or ever in life and that I'm
0:05:25a little saddened by that you feel like though that was like the easiest
0:05:28feedback and all yeah I ignored most of the amine it's it's depressing that you
0:05:34know we're going to get that type of thing but it's a type of bacteria and
0:05:38you like alright well so I know these people are out there I know they're
0:05:42listening they have different opinions and ideas than we do but it's easier to
0:05:47I don't know it's like it's easier to process because they in many respects
0:05:53they are who they are who we are most capable of reaching right like if we can
0:06:02reach those people that will affect change right if we can we can turn those
0:06:07people around or just even more than more towards what we think you know our
0:06:11value system that will be a success and they were sort of showing us here we are
0:06:16over here if you feel like moving us
0:06:19towards your way of thinking this is where we are so now you know what you've
0:06:23got your work cut out for you
0:06:25yeah it was surprising to me I think most of the email while negative was
0:06:31informative there were certainly a lot of Hayama dude and blah blah blah blah
0:06:37blah ok so you should really improve it but the thing that struck me was as the
0:06:42immediate Twitter replies to the ATP account were disappointing and I'm sorry
0:06:51I was certainly and remain taken aback by it because I was very surprised about
0:07:00how many replies we saw which basically made me think that we were all members
0:07:06of the he-man woman haters club which I don't remember signing up for and I
0:07:11don't remember that being a thing and that was that was a little bit
0:07:14disappointing not all of them of course but a lot of them well I mean I think
0:07:17that that is the most much more interesting feedback to me also more
0:07:21upsetting but much more interesting and because it's it's it's giving us new
0:07:26information as opposed to just saying hey there are people out there with
0:07:29regressive ideas about women in technology like eddie knew that but the
0:07:34other side of the coin is more enlightening and I i would say for the
0:07:37feedback and trying to characterize it we get more feedback from women than
0:07:41usual which is expected and this type of topic and the reason I was emphasizing
0:07:46the wider range is as I tried to emphasize on a show like women are not a
0:07:53monolith no individual woman who treats it as it writes devices is purporting to
0:07:57speak for all women they're just individuals right and that's why getting
0:08:01a lot of feedback is good because otherwise if you had to get feedback
0:08:06from three people and they all three different things you have no idea dude
0:08:09could be a feedback from 300 people then maybe you can start sort of you know
0:08:13slicing and dicing in trying to figure things out and you know soliciting
0:08:18feedback is one thing and the second thing which you know many ppl emphasize
0:08:22like you so was it the feedback and then you have to actually read it and listen
0:08:25to it right the difficulty in doing that correctly as I love my son talk about 11
0:08:31difficulty is
0:08:32try not to be defensive trying to be like you have to answer everything try
0:08:35to be like every piece of advice is an accusation so on and so forth
0:08:39you know trying not to suffer from a Lancer syndrome all these all these bad
0:08:43instincts that are in me definitely and maybe you too as well you have to fight
0:08:48those but the second thing is with this huge range even talk about something so
0:08:53is the average of room or less agreed was not the core issue here just looking
0:08:58at the women who get feedback and the add you know you can't possibly do what
0:09:03quote unquote everyone wants because they want contradictory things some
0:09:08women said you absolutely have to keep the ad removing it would be insulting
0:09:11some women said you actually have to remove the ad its presence is insulting
0:09:14so you get their feedback and we listened to it at some point we have to
0:09:20do something and there is no course of action seems to me that a lot of the
0:09:25people writing in all caps no matter what their opinion believe the day they
0:09:30didn't seem to leave a lot of room for other possibilities of many people wrote
0:09:34in to say this is the situation you guys at dummies are not seeing it and the
0:09:39answer is obvious just do what I say but it's like but you know it's just that
0:09:45one me emails fine but like you read one email after the next after the next at
0:09:49an accident like if I do what you want then these ten people are gonna be upset
0:09:52by do what they want them is fifty people are going to you know that's
0:09:55that's that's our job our job is to solicit feedback accepted read it listen
0:10:00to a try to understand it and then decide what the right thing to do for us
0:10:06is right and that's why I feel like I'm still processing because it's difficult
0:10:10to sort of being the people pleaser mobile you're like we're trying to do
0:10:14the right thing you're right we're trying to solicit feedback if only there
0:10:17was a quote unquote answer but there is not there is lots of people's opinions
0:10:21and lots of people's answers and we have to figure out how how do we make forward
0:10:27progress on
0:10:28on you know on our goals based on this feedback and it's just it's kinda makes
0:10:33my head spin at this point I think one one thing I think that we can all agree
0:10:38on besides cheese thing is that we got a lot of feedback because we asked for it
0:10:45and and that's exactly what we wanted we were asking the question to our audience
0:10:50especially to the women in our audience what can we do to help address this
0:10:56massive gender imbalance that our audience and you know it in tech
0:10:59podcasting Anandtech as a whole this is a big problem and I i you know i i don't
0:11:07pretend to be an expert on this I'm far from it I do however want to improve it
0:11:11and as as a guy who is a smart ass and has always been a smartass I've always
0:11:20had the problem of I rush right to thinking I have an answer to something
0:11:24and as we saw in the email and as many women see every single day that's a very
0:11:31common thing in this business and it's a very common thing among men in general
0:11:34the you know the the attitude that we could have an immediate answer for
0:11:39everything and we know everything about everything and we can quickly explain
0:11:42away ever anything any problem and one of the things that I think everyone
0:11:49would agree on which there isn't much in in this argument that everyone will
0:11:53agree on it but I think everyone was on the right side of this can probably
0:11:56agree that especially we men need to be listening more to be asking and
0:12:03listening more we just need to be listening to what women are actually
0:12:06telling us and it was very valuable to see even though a lot of it was
0:12:12contradictory from women about what we should or shouldn't do the fact is we
0:12:16asked we are listening and we're going to continue to ask him listen and to all
0:12:21the men out there who responded in that matter of fact way this is going to be
0:12:27hard for you to change in your in your life it's certainly hard for us but you
0:12:31have to be open to the idea that the first step when this question is asked
0:12:36is to listen to what women are telling you listen to what they have to say to
0:12:40ask them
0:12:41listening to care not just to jump to thinking you know the answer because
0:12:46really is that is such a big problem for so many people and it is really this is
0:12:54this is really primarily a problem with men that do this like the fact is the
0:13:01world is not a perfectly balanced a place for everything is equal it's far
0:13:04from it and that's the whole problem we're trying to address it is ok to
0:13:08recognize that even even if you think you're being good and even if you think
0:13:15that you are helping there are gonna be things in johnnie time there's gonna be
0:13:20things that you subconsciously do or that you just do because you've always
0:13:25done them and that's just the way you think that you think are normal in
0:13:27neutral but they're not and so it's really is of utmost importance that men
0:13:32in particular don't just jump to think you know the answers here that you know
0:13:37really sit back and listen there's a lot that that we need to hear that's what I
0:13:42talked about on the game gate episode one of the suggestions I made to the
0:13:45audience of people who may have been sort of sympathizing with a gamer gate
0:13:48and I'm just trying to look for something that I could suggest that
0:13:52would be like actionable and that I felt like would make real change based on
0:13:59what has worked for me and I was suggesting like Twitter account size
0:14:04it's suggested that a bunch of people Twitter accounts like the everyday
0:14:07sexism Twitter accounts a problem sure I suggested briana was the Twitter account
0:14:10like just follow these to put our council was my suggestion but then don't
0:14:14ever reply to them just like the tweets are going to make you angry sometimes
0:14:22you're gonna disagree with a lot of fun the whole idea is like a one-year plan
0:14:27of like subscribe and read the tweets economic don't get crazy but I'm just
0:14:31haven't in the mix it and I'm doing this in terms of what we could do anything
0:14:34blog posts you know who you
0:14:36his facebook post you read what sites are either whatever just read them even
0:14:41if the entire year you absolutely hundred percent disagree with every
0:14:44single thing that you read because I feel like most of that like sort of just
0:14:49being in contact with those ideas will slowly affect your worldview because
0:14:54it's essentially force listen I cannot realistically maybe reading them like
0:14:57hey treating them like a look at these dummies I disagree with everything they
0:14:59so dumb that I know anything about anything right if you just keep reading
0:15:02them like an everyday sexism on it is a great example it's like you just read
0:15:07day after day after day of like minor things that happen to people situations
0:15:11they ran I feel like it will eventually get through to you like this is not made
0:15:15up stuff and I like it because I think the volume is important right and so we
0:15:20are subjecting ourselves to this essentially voluntarily to try it you
0:15:23know you know bring us bring out the feedback
0:15:26tell us what you think give us your ideas and we just kind of have to soak
0:15:32in it like you know it's like buying you know we're soaking it in some degree but
0:15:37like actually inviting it'd be kind of getting a big dose of it dumped on her
0:15:40head and that's part of the process of course this is a podcast and follow up
0:15:47and of course we do have responses to things so kind of violating our rules
0:15:51here but that the reason I suggest that all that stuff like that I feel like I
0:15:56got into like just gamer game was a big part but even before that reading like
0:16:01every single post about these things reading people following new people
0:16:06looking at their tumblers following them on Twitter just just reading everything
0:16:10mostly not responding to a mostly not engaging with people on Twitter mostly
0:16:13but just like reading it and gave a gate was like the peak was just like every
0:16:16day like seventeen new things to read write and then following the links on
0:16:20the threads following the different people to you know where they come from
0:16:24where what's their background what have they written before what have they done
0:16:27you know like that kind of sort of it's not so they can be in research or
0:16:33whatever on the topic is I thought that in most influential in my life and
0:16:38changing my cell phone
0:16:39on these topics and feedback is is part of that and now that I've said all those
0:16:45things to try to be differentially everything I have to go and ruin it by
0:16:48responding to what I think was the the harshest criticism we got because I
0:16:52think the one thing he doesn't like this was the most common but I look back over
0:16:56to the most negative event of the spectrum above the feedback we got its
0:17:02not believe it or not from the people who have progressive ideas about women
0:17:05in tech their feedback but tended not to be harsh tended to be condescending and
0:17:09patronizing but like that's the most harsh ones in the one that felt the
0:17:14worst feedback from women who did the gist of this feedback was on the topic
0:17:21of changing the host lineup and changing the format of the show saying
0:17:26essentially if you don't do one of those two things then it shows you don't care
0:17:31about women at all and this is all BS front and that's the harshest version of
0:17:36that just like you know saying these two things are are the test you if you don't
0:17:43if you refuse to do things as we SAT and talked about last night we didn't want
0:17:46to change the hostname the show with internal injuries show we basically
0:17:50ruled those out and I feel like people hearing that people hearing I say we
0:17:55read through this big list of suggestions that people suggested to us
0:17:57and then we ruled out those two right off the bat and it just feels like every
0:18:01other encounter women have had in technology where it's like the people in
0:18:06the position of power
0:18:09hear their concerns and immediately dismiss that sounds like slamming the
0:18:11door in their face and I understand why people are angry about that understand
0:18:15why why we got that the people are feeling the way they did why they felt
0:18:18compelled to go to the feedback form and and write those things in but I you know
0:18:25the I responded to some of these people and what I said all the responses of a
0:18:30similar as I said on the show that would that would absolutely make the show more
0:18:38appealing
0:18:39you know given granted like this is feedback we received I agree with them
0:18:45I'm where I disagree is by us not doing those two specific things and only those
0:18:50two specific things change the host lineup during the show changes show
0:18:54format to be an interview show that somehow there's nothing else we can do
0:18:58to make this show more appealing to women to get more women listless I
0:19:02totally disagree with that i think there are a ton of things we could do to find
0:19:08more you know to make the show more inclusive to find attract more women to
0:19:13the show is just a tremendous amount we read a whole bunch of tons of people
0:19:18send us feedback with the with ideas
0:19:21only two things we ruled out for changing the host lineup and changing
0:19:25the formula Jeremy individual everything else including the harry said I might
0:19:29point out on the table right and so that feedback like like it because it shows
0:19:35that those people but they came away with was that we were that we were
0:19:39dismissing them that we were just doing exactly what has been done to them in
0:19:43the entire technology industry for their entire life which is just like this
0:19:47population they listen to is going to address my concerns from home and are
0:19:50slanted face right that we experience they got out of the show which is
0:19:53terrible and not our intention obviously we did a bad job but I still have to say
0:19:58that like I feel like our show can exist in its current form and be better than
0:20:04it is that we can then we can make positive progress towards our goal of
0:20:08inclusiveness and maybe that's not enough progress maybe we can make more
0:20:13progress by changing the show on those ways but I feel like it's like that the
0:20:17show has value and can be better in its current form I don't that like it a lot
0:20:23of the worst again made it sound as if you like maybe feel like that our show
0:20:27just should not exist like that it is an affront to the cause and that the world
0:20:32does not need another three dudes tech podcast and the best thing we could do
0:20:35is just change it in a fundamental way so it's a different show and if we don't
0:20:39do that it shows you really don't care and you were just we don't do anything
0:20:42they will they will return by happy little home in any way and I feel like
0:20:45that is a mischaracterization and we were totally willing to do anything
0:20:50within the bounds of the current show again provided you know granting
0:20:55entirely that it would be make the show more attractive to women if we
0:20:58those things but we want to have our show that the three of us this is our
0:21:01show I feel like I you know it's a valid thing to do to have the show the three
0:21:06of us I don't know I don't know how else do you characterize that without without
0:21:13just sort of reinforcing everything I think it's basically like oh you just
0:21:16want to have your show and that's that I do have the show with the three of us
0:21:20and I do I feel like that show can be better and I feel like some positive
0:21:24progress and make me feel better is if it's positive right is it as positive as
0:21:29it could be if we you know and i dont wanna go into these damn that's why
0:21:34should I still getting more defensive by the moment but if you go into the you
0:21:40know I stopped myself here but what do you guys have to think about this topic
0:21:45yeah i of all the feedback we got a lot of it hurt in the sense that it made me
0:21:51very angry because I was disappointed in in the very chauvinistic things that I
0:21:58saw but the stuff that actually hurt to end cut the deepest was when a woman
0:22:06would write in and say like you said John basically if you don't
0:22:10fundamentally change the show is then you're just a bunch of liars and well
0:22:16just like you said John that absolutely would be the number one best way to put
0:22:22our money where our mouth is that is I don't think it's unreasonable for us to
0:22:26take that off the table and I even though the show isn't so many ways about
0:22:30binary the show itself is not binary and there is a lot of in the middle that we
0:22:35can do to improve ourselves and to improve the way we handle the show and
0:22:40just generally make things more inclusive without changing the three of
0:22:46us in and I should point out that we got a fair bit of women that road in that
0:22:50said I understand why someone would ask you to change the lineup but don't do
0:22:57that because the reason I listen says several women that road in the reason I
0:23:01listen is because of the three of you and because of the chemistry you happen
0:23:05because of the way you beat each other up over white cars and fish and so on
0:23:09and so forth
0:23:10and if you change that lineup it could ruin everything in so if this is the
0:23:19most hurt I've gotten I'm still coming from a place of indescribable privilege
0:23:23and I recognize that but it was it was really really bummed me out because I
0:23:27feel like I wanna work together the three of us and the three of us in in
0:23:32the women that listen and then the men that was then and i just want to work
0:23:37together to make this a more inclusive happy place and it I feel like just like
0:23:43you said John there is somewhere in the middle between doing nothing in
0:23:48completely eviscerating lineup as it is as an existing go even farther because
0:23:53like
0:23:53from my perspective like as I said do you know that women are underrepresented
0:23:57in tech podcasts and the like we should be linked to rock out last week we
0:24:01should have more Lincoln the shouts of other podcast tech podcast that are very
0:24:04similar DDP but have women on the list but the vector podcast Georgia now I'm
0:24:09or the time our podcast with a friend and ally and then rocketed like the fact
0:24:16that I can't name more than a handful these on top ad shows you there's not a
0:24:19lot of them but they are out there and so women looking to hear their women's
0:24:23voices on the topic of TAC you know there are options and I think there
0:24:28should be more of them you know should our show be one of them like our show is
0:24:33our show is that the three of us right but from my perspective i think is very
0:24:38possible that we can do maybe not more good but a tremendous amount of good by
0:24:44talking to are you know making a show more inclusive so it doesn't feel like
0:24:49that if your woman listening to you somehow shouldn't be this is the place
0:24:52for you right so that a lot of things like what can we do to change tons of
0:24:55things like what can we stop doing that is bad what can we do that is that is
0:24:59propelling women right can we talk about a certain number of things he tweaked
0:25:05out of the huge range of things we could talk about by picking different things
0:25:09and talk about you can we change the show and most importantly I feel like
0:25:13even if we are completely unsuccessful in her to get more women and girls
0:25:17listen to the show by talking to the men who listen to the show
0:25:21that is probably realistically speaking our best avenue for positive change
0:25:25because if we could snap my fingers and convince all the men on the show to you
0:25:31know get on board with our way of thinking about this as ours even maybe
0:25:35but just like to move them along the continuum that would be a tremendous
0:25:38benefit and that's one of the pieces feedback i've heard from a lot of people
0:25:41especially people deeply entrenched in this issue is that if you can check it's
0:25:47the men's behavior that needs to change right so you we're all about like it can
0:25:50make the show more inclusive can make sure we're not doing anything to repel
0:25:53women we had to get through to the men to say to you in a nice way we can tell
0:25:58I go you guys are all bad people you shouldn't listen like that is not it
0:26:00that is not did all we want to be able to like bring bring people along with
0:26:06the ideas that we have and even if we're only just talking to men that that is a
0:26:11huge way that we can we can make a positive change in this area you know so
0:26:17I just I feel like the three of us if if we change the show while keeping the
0:26:21format and while keeping the three of us there I still feel like we can do a
0:26:25massive massive gonna be just figure out how to do a better idea that we also got
0:26:30a lot of feedback that that was suggesting what would make the show more
0:26:36appealing to women but like but yeah that's how to people presented it but in
0:26:41reality it's not about like it would make the show it more attractive to
0:26:45anybody of any gender it had nothing to do with women so you know things like
0:26:49just making it easier for new listeners to go into the show so you know not
0:26:54spending the entire show on follow-up not being too much inside jokes like
0:26:59stuff like that nobody said don't text into the other topic nice job you did
0:27:05you think that's a great idea I don't know you know there are things about our
0:27:16show format and that we can definitely improve on things that will make it
0:27:20easier for any new listeners to come in and to end to stick with us and that's
0:27:26like a lot of people from those things as here's why women don't like your show
0:27:30which is complete BS over its at least not the whole story
0:27:34it's like here's why a new listener might not stick around
0:27:37that's the real story and so there are things there that we need to end should
0:27:41improve to get more women listening mostly because that's how we get more
0:27:46people this is like it has nothing to do with women
0:27:49well I mean like like like I said in the past show you can like some of them were
0:27:53you know like they said this but as I said last time we talked about politics
0:27:57who have much broader broader appeal than ever talk about program and a lot
0:28:00of people we've always got complaints we going to the Super programming stuff but
0:28:04bottom line is that's one of the things that we want to talk about 35
0:28:07programmers on a podcast we're going to talk about programming some people love
0:28:10the programming some people hate it that's not that's more of just a narrow
0:28:15vs broad issue does not specifically gender issue but but a lot of you a lot
0:28:20of people say like I'm not super into programming so whenever you talk about
0:28:24programming I tuned out and we didn't get much feedback the life of the
0:28:27program like there is a ceiling on on our appeal we you know if we did a show
0:28:32about politics it would have way broader appeal and like but that's not the show
0:28:37we're doing so in in in many ways like it's the same type of thing I also you
0:28:43want you want to broaden your gonna get more women to listen will change what
0:28:46you talked about like yes ok change we talked about in what way well I would
0:28:49love it if you didn't talk about programming anymore
0:28:51well you know there are lots of women remember to listen to like we talked
0:28:55about programs like we're doing a program like I would love to talk about
0:28:58Apple may be more people would listen if we didn't talk about what we talked
0:29:02about something with you know with much broader appeal that's that's something
0:29:06we have to deal with like we're always going to say well you know within the
0:29:08confines of all you want to broaden his appeal show but you don't want to change
0:29:11your show we do want to change it within the confines of the topic area right and
0:29:17the three of us and everything and that's like so many people that is
0:29:20basically sort of like you don't really want to change you say you want to
0:29:25change you say you wanted to make the show more includes you say you want to
0:29:27make it more appealing but you don't want to actually change anything about
0:29:29the show and I and I reiterate again I think there are just so many things we
0:29:32could change within this format to do better just a tremendous amount of
0:29:37things we can change that we will hopefully be working on moving forward
0:29:39that can make this show more inclusive
0:29:43and and you know and and change people's hearts and minds who do listen to the
0:29:48show men or women undermine whatever you know and i know i just i just feel I
0:29:54feel somewhat defeated by this entire topic and I think we should probably put
0:29:59a fork in it for today in a couple of quick thoughts first of all if you are
0:30:04listening to this and don't care for it I'm sorry to hear that please do not
0:30:10bother writing in to tell us that you don't care for it because this is going
0:30:14to continue to happen and you can either carry on with the show or not but this
0:30:20is something that's very important to the three of us and it's we're going to
0:30:24keep talking about it and that's just the way it is and it's absolutely on
0:30:28topic this is major is a major problem in the tech industry it is definitely
0:30:32relevant for tech podcast to talk about this issue and the other thing I'm
0:30:38seeing a lot of angst in the chat room right now that we're doing a lot of
0:30:42navel-gazing and talking about the show and talking about oh what could we do
0:30:46what could we do but not doing anything too quick thoughts on that first of all
0:30:50i think is talking about this is doing something I mean would you rather us not
0:30:54to talk about this I don't think that's really a solution and secondly outside
0:30:58of the show in private conversations between the three of us we are
0:31:02absolutely disgusting pretty much anything that we've gotten in email we
0:31:08are discussing and considering pretty much everything even things we probably
0:31:15don't want to do or may not do are on the table in private conversations
0:31:19between the three of us I ask only that you bear with us and give us a chance to
0:31:24get our heads around everything give us a chance to put things together and
0:31:28watch the space I know it's probably not happening as quick as it should
0:31:32it's probably not happening as quick as it could but we are working on it and in
0:31:37we are trying as hard as we can and and and expect us to screw up like a expect
0:31:43us to do badly again you know I mean like it's not don't don't expect
0:31:46miracles right and we will never go as far as some people want to go people
0:31:50will always be disappointed
0:31:52like people will be disappointed that the show exists at all
0:31:55clear from the feedback sometimes right but you know some people like it it's
0:32:01like I just feel like you know the one of the trap that mental and when they
0:32:07get into this topic is like I'm gonna I'm gonna do good here I am going to
0:32:11champion the rights of whatever you know oppressed people that I am getting down
0:32:18this caused by the block and then they get told that what they're doing is
0:32:21wrong and they're like but but I was trying to help
0:32:24well forget you guys now I'm not even gonna help anymore and it's like that's
0:32:28exactly you just have to think we're trying mightily to avoid that like its
0:32:33you have to understand that everyone is not going to agree with you
0:32:38everyone is not going to like you and the closer you get to trying to make
0:32:42some kind of progress the more anger people bTW you didn't go far enough and
0:32:46that is that is a positive force I feel like pushing us in the right direction
0:32:50that the wrong direction trying to get that as as a wind behind this as ever as
0:32:54we become ever more disappointing to the people who are really invested in this
0:32:57cause I'm hoping you were actually moving more towards like we're making
0:33:01positive progress in that direction right now we're not going down that way
0:33:04that we don't get repelled by that to be down there we don't start to resent the
0:33:07idea that boo people said mean things to us who are quote unquote on our side I
0:33:13wanted to be a wind at our back rather than something to tearing us from
0:33:17pursuing us so Plex yeah I'd spoke last week about how the Synology Synology
0:33:26specifically I think I cited the ds2 14 play as having the proper hardware to
0:33:32transcode
0:33:34video and do so quickly which makes it really great fourplex a handful of
0:33:38people very gently pointed out to me that I am full of crap and that he 214
0:33:43does indeed have the right hardware however Plex does not have access to it
0:33:49because of whatever is going on within the Synology I don't know the technical
0:33:52details but suffice to say I'm full of crap so what I have found her I think a
0:33:58listener listener to actually pointed out to me is a list of all the different
0:34:03network attached storage devices that blacks will run on and it will end it
0:34:08shows exactly what these devices can and cannot transcode in a reasonably
0:34:15performance way so we will put that in the show notes I apologize if you took
0:34:20any action on my BS recommendation I did not realize that I was dead wrong but
0:34:25hopefully have caught you before you spend any money I do love my psychology
0:34:29I do not have a 214 anymore I have one that is not at all well suited for
0:34:34transcoding in so I do recommends analogies in general but I cannot
0:34:40recommend the 214 that I previously recommended because as it turns out they
0:34:44are a terrible idea for blacks so check out that list and and buy one that
0:34:49actually works to do the things I thought the 214 would have high hopes
0:34:53that hardware transcoding but but I don't use Plaxo what I found was that
0:34:57when the hardware transcoding with useful it was good but if you are
0:35:01downloading more exotic weird formats are you have no idea what the hell
0:35:06formats you are downloading legally of course very often the hardware
0:35:10transcoding can't handle it and there's one thing but software Transcona may be
0:35:13slower but it is it can do a much broader range of things so I find myself
0:35:19wishing that rather than hardware decoding I really had faster faster CPU
0:35:24to do software decoding software transcoding alright what is going on
0:35:28with iPhoto and Time Machine I think this is right after last week's show we
0:35:33got this feedback and direct link to an Apple support article saying whatever
0:35:37happened to the thing that I imagine that time machine integration apparently
0:35:40I did not imagine and although this thing doesn't have screenshots as of
0:35:44iPhoto 11 which was version 9.2 obviously and I was 10 lion 10720 or
0:35:52later
0:35:53that's when I thought I lost the ability to browse backups as they caught a
0:35:58political this means that instead of restoring specific photos within your
0:36:01iPhoto library you must restore your entire iPhoto library so I forget when
0:36:05iPhoto 11 was I'm assuming 2011 but that's when this feature run away and
0:36:09there is no more integration and I assume this is a feature that was never
0:36:12public for like their party out there was something only I photo could do it
0:36:15was written by Apple and it has fallen by the wayside said or maybe it's a good
0:36:21thing on our first bunch of this week is cards against humanity and as usual they
0:36:27have sent John a toaster to review in lieu of a sponsor read here so John what
0:36:32is the toaster the crowd against humanity sent you to review this week
0:36:35this week we've got the Cuisinart Custom Classic toaster oven broiler which I
0:36:40guess is a sensible name in his model number key capitulo capital be hyphen 40
0:36:47another model number with both in 20 in it boggles my mind and how they keep
0:36:52anything straight this is about the same size as my level 60 lol whatever model
0:36:58numbers that I was forget it is a legit 4 slice toaster oven it's got four
0:37:06unshielded resistive heating elements inside it has a very straightforward you
0:37:11I this is the first poster that I did not ever need to look at the
0:37:13instructions for which is saying something shouldn't be but it is that's
0:37:17really sick three knobs on the day you look at the instructions like figure out
0:37:22this new on some missing operate the any toaster but unlike ok but then what
0:37:27about you know there's some new ones here that I'm probably missing any to
0:37:30look at the menu this one is just had three knobs 14 function like toast broil
0:37:35bake in preheated whatever 14 temperature that goes from you know that
0:37:39normal range of toaster oven temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit and
0:37:4214 toast shade and associated one you said to like a big range you said it
0:37:47what you want and then there is a start-stop button so if you find the
0:37:50correct setting for your toast every morning you don't have to adjust that
0:37:53you just press the button it does it repeals that's all there is no time at
0:37:58all which I didn't notice until a little later like you know what there's no way
0:38:02for me to set this thing for a 10-15 with no time at all which is a very
0:38:05interesting simplification almost a polite moved like it's very difficult to
0:38:09incorporate all those things together and have all the desirable features of
0:38:12not having to figure out what's the setting is the diet going to something
0:38:16did you like the Breville you have you know here display LCD display or making
0:38:22things complicated there's just no time at all this or if there is I didn't find
0:38:25much because there was read the manual but I'm pretty sure that no timer just a
0:38:29start stop on how does that make it harder to use the other new features
0:38:32obviously with the toaster you don't really need a timer you start the
0:38:35darkness not but it does have but does the lack of a timer make the other in
0:38:39future less useful to you it depends like you should know that it doesn't
0:38:43have a timeline that something you rely on I find that with with any future
0:38:46except for toasting existing toaster oven I don't tend to use the time I just
0:38:50kinda like put it in if anything it kind of annoys me at the time was to locate
0:38:53reading something and then the time was like six minutes and I'll actually I
0:38:56want to just I just turn the nominees to just 30 60 minutes I'm never gonna take
0:39:00it out when I feel like it's done I'm not gonna forget about it right but if
0:39:03you wanna time rather than up to interview the knob themselves really
0:39:08good at Nob Hill actually it's fairly average not feel compared to the knob
0:39:12feel on these other posters it is phenomenal right and about if you don't
0:39:16know what the Nob Hill YouTube channel conditions should check it out it's just
0:39:20that's the thing that really you never heard of the novel YouTube account are
0:39:24you honestly surprised that we have never heard of that yes because it's
0:39:27like a meanness I it's not like an obscure you know it's supposed to be
0:39:30funny like the guy who just filmed himself killing with knobs and I think
0:39:35he made it terrible mistake at the beginning like the format is he found
0:39:41his hand filling with knobs and then he doesn't see any word he makes noises
0:39:44like runs like
0:39:45like that's that's it and he has been really confined himself by not having
0:39:50words like this
0:39:51tons of these videos only incorporated words it would be a much richer
0:39:54experience anyway
0:39:59mood and I feel expensive and like the best comparison is my Breville toaster
0:40:04like the worst feeling I've ever felt on a plant in my life I understand why
0:40:09that's all I do because they're made of plastic and their friends that you know
0:40:12but like why wasn't this done more money anyway great number one problem with
0:40:16these knobs though you can't tell where the knobs are pointing because like that
0:40:21they're not something I'm at black plastic around them with riches and one
0:40:24reaches ever so slightly taller than all the other ridges and you can tell by
0:40:28feel where that ridge's by looking at it forget it like and there's no markings
0:40:32on the front of the knob like little red triangle or something so figuring out
0:40:35where the knobs are pointing like what what function is this set to what
0:40:38temperatures is set to you basically have to feel on the thing especially if
0:40:42you're toasters and slightly darker undercounter type area they really great
0:40:47now feel not great and it's got a tray and it's kind of like you shaped like
0:40:53dip down which seems weird to me but then I realize what they want to do and
0:40:58actually confirm this by looking at the little pictures inside of the boxes you
0:41:02can this two different sets of slots you can slide the train to but then with any
0:41:06slight you can flip the trail over to do plus or minus like an inch because of
0:41:10the dip in the thing it's hard to explain what about a picture in the show
0:41:13but anyway
0:41:14essentially four different positions you can put the thing in just 22 slot then
0:41:18each slide you can put into different positions that seems like an interesting
0:41:22idea to give more flexibility of different positions but overall I think
0:41:25it's worth it because like things get caught on the little U-shaped thing you
0:41:28try to slide you to tell us that if you have four slices in there so clever idea
0:41:32but in the end I would say that this does everything that tries to pull the
0:41:36trailer and open and close the door but because you can reposition the trade
0:41:39they can't make a single mechanism to do that they have to put kind of like metal
0:41:43hook that catches the the trade in both positions of things really high really
0:41:49low catch a different areas like it's a difficult problem that's all they
0:41:52understand if you want to make a movie portray how do you connect something to
0:41:55it so comes out
0:41:56but again like technically kinda works but if you ever have to you move the
0:42:00train manually when you close the door again the little hooks to re-engage in
0:42:04the tray up while we're talking about a minute slower than my toaster toaster
0:42:10piece of bread but it all the way as it is very comfortable to my toaster just a
0:42:16bit and then click here but that are not feel so that was kinda long I'm sorry
0:42:20but this is actually a very interesting better not feel but worse overall knobs
0:42:25because of the difficulty in detecting yes yes
0:42:27whereas worse overall not right he totally because you can't tell where the
0:42:31pointing to determine so in summary this is better or worse than the trouble was
0:42:38worse than the Breville has like digital timers and like it you know it's just
0:42:43way better today
0:42:44adjustments for a number of slices and and auto adjust the time based on the
0:42:48temperature inside the Breville the better toast their functionally this
0:42:52just has an interesting aspect and it is very similar to the Breville in terms of
0:42:55size and even appearance
0:42:58do you think this is a good value for 80 bucks it sounds like you're saying yes
0:43:01yeah I mean it's a little slow like a minute slower to toast that's that's in
0:43:07the borderline of like a light i feel like im still probably take the Black
0:43:10and Decker 39 over this because that's my big hang out with my personal thing I
0:43:14feel I don't wanna wait that long for toast to the four men arranged for
0:43:17people to know you know I would still probably take the smaller more
0:43:22conventional also three now by the way
0:43:24Black and Decker over this thing it's just kind of a dead ringer for the
0:43:29Breville but like I can see where that extra you know whatever dollars went
0:43:33remind thank you very much too cards against humanity for sponsoring our show
0:43:38once again alright we got some pretty good feedback from kitty Johnny Mathis
0:43:44yeah this is on the topic of watches replacing phones I think we have another
0:43:51piece of feedback about this as well
0:43:53heard there was one of the features that the phone has the phone as the watch has
0:43:59the don't necessarily seem to be watch related specifically all the little you
0:44:06know things about
0:44:07out sending pictures to be born in the 3d emoji and all the different fitness
0:44:13app typings obviously need to have an accelerometer and their whatever but the
0:44:16phone has an accelerometer the phone has a screen phone has all these things why
0:44:19are they on the watch now and that aspect this is true of a lot of Apple
0:44:23products whatever the new glory product is seems to get a lot of the cool
0:44:28features forest in a trickle down this happened along time with like hey I was
0:44:32got some cool features that eventually came to the Mac in the reverse direction
0:44:35of your guns there I don't know if those things lever come to the phone right now
0:44:41there's nothing stopping you from being alone including all the fitness tracking
0:44:43stuff because he owns got an accelerometer and everything to you
0:44:46can't do that obviously the blood pressure pulse stuff but everything else
0:44:49could happen on the phone it will be a shame if all the advanced features
0:44:54happens on the watch instead of the phone but I was trying to understand it
0:44:59and then the second one is like things like watch faces with the complications
0:45:03on them everything
0:45:04the IRS home screen as a bazillion people like that many many times
0:45:07including many Android fans the iOS home screen could be a lot cooler if it
0:45:12supported essentially complications otherwise known as widgets are you know
0:45:16any kind of customization so you can make your lock screen or your homescreen
0:45:19more customizable and you can call has been moving slightly in that direction
0:45:24let you know the Notification Center and the ability to adjust their and stuff
0:45:28but in the end the home screens you know springboard to soldiers have been great
0:45:31of icons with some clumsy faltering thrown in and I i think i would you know
0:45:38if I get up complications
0:45:40you know in scarecrows on the screen I think that would be a plus but we'll see
0:45:46if that ever comes back to the Mac back to the iPhone this case and part of the
0:45:52reason why I think we don't have you know we have complications in the
0:45:55watches we don't complications on your lockscreen your phone I think part of
0:45:58the reason why is just another show you know it first of all you do have the
0:46:03today view which is which I personally don't use they don't use debut and I
0:46:07would definitely use lockscreen complications long before I used a few
0:46:12stuff but keep in mind so not only do they have like an existing thing that
0:46:17kind of does that
0:46:18because I always been around for so long and is so powerful within the company
0:46:23even though it is not like the glory products you know that the watches right
0:46:27now there's there's inertia with like managerial decisions they're so
0:46:32somewhere in Apple probably pretty high up there some manager VP holding tight
0:46:37to the idea that there should not be widget on an iPhone home screen as far
0:46:41as you know I mean maybe I will change this who knows but I doubt it so
0:46:44somewhere there somebody who decided that a long time ago and is sticking
0:46:48with that decision is not letting a change it and like any anything that's
0:46:52been around for a while gonna have used many people like there's been a lot of
0:46:55discussion this week about the Mac App Store because there is there is an app
0:47:00called review redacted redacted
0:47:05that hit number one and made very little money being number one and even though
0:47:09it's not quite number one it's not quite anyway doesn't matter a lot of
0:47:13discussion about the Mac App Store and how much sucks personally I think the
0:47:16Mac App Store situation can be blamed on one major thing that's a boxing you know
0:47:22the ABS a preview 30% cut black upgrade pressing all those things hurt but none
0:47:29of them hurt as much as sandboxing today in my opinion I think sandboxing on the
0:47:34Mac has been a massive loss of a massive net loss overall and that and it has
0:47:40cost the Mac App Store a lot of a lot of good apps and a lot of developers will
0:47:45but somewhere and Apple there's clearly somebody who has power who is keeping
0:47:50sandboxing there and keeping sandboxing a requirement to be in the Mac App Store
0:47:54and so even though it looks like it might not be the best idea for the
0:48:00product just the fact is when you have a big company you have people you have
0:48:03power you have power struggle sometimes you have debates internally there's this
0:48:08other factors that keep things the way they are even if it's not ideal so in
0:48:11this case the watch comes up in the water is kind of a clean slate I mean
0:48:14you know it seems to run some some variant of iOS but it is basically a
0:48:19clean slate in like the things that offer the things it doesn't the UI it
0:48:22offers where things are allowed where things aren't allowed and so it was able
0:48:26to do things that
0:48:27we might not see for a while and iOS sidetrack on this thing but in the
0:48:33sandbox think the guy who thinks that I think I mostly agree with that
0:48:40like I think sandboxing is a positive direction for the back to go but the
0:48:45execution of that of the implementation of that policy
0:48:48left a lot to be desired having to become mandatory before his full
0:48:52featured right
0:48:53having having their be so few ways for apps 22 you know like to do things
0:49:01outside of San boxing on a case-by-case basis with exceptions like just ideal
0:49:07gifts and even if sandbox and get sprung into existence in its current state
0:49:11immediately like nothing you can do that because you know you need to be
0:49:15developed to some degree but like the capabilities that were possible in
0:49:19sandbox and early on but just so limited and so broken so weird in so buggy to
0:49:24mandate people going to that was just that was getting off on the wrong foot I
0:49:28think you do have to bring them back towards a sandbox intake environment but
0:49:31the way to get there is like not the way they've done it so I feel like that as
0:49:36more of a and execution fumble than a theoretical and I do think there will
0:49:42always be things that are outside the sandbox and should be allowed to be on
0:49:46the Mac App Store with caveat but some kind of warning blah blah blah but like
0:49:49moving in a direction is good maybe it's similar with all the other decisions
0:49:54that like you may agree with the end state to go but you don't agree that the
0:49:58way that plans to get there is going to be successful or has been beneficial
0:50:05basically how I feel like sandboxing in theory is a huge security improvement
0:50:10and and I i would like to be in the place where everything is sandbox
0:50:14properly but I agree that the way it's been done has been pretty miserable and
0:50:20and the result the reality is you have this system that is you know opt-in by a
0:50:26very small number of apps it's not preventing Mac malware it's not
0:50:31preventing major abstract is going around the App Store insan themselves
0:50:34elsewhere there's still tons of
0:50:38other software that is made and run every day that's not sandbox including a
0:50:42lot of Apple's software because they're not sandbox or sandbox technically but
0:50:46is given like these blanket permission to do anything at once not really send
0:50:52so they're like in theory it's a great idea if everything was system can be
0:50:58properly sandboxed in practice how to get there and what they've done so far
0:51:02has been miserable the best thing for sandboxing like the best used to
0:51:07sandboxing and Apple is doing this as well as for Apple to stand by that stuff
0:51:10and it has been its been sandboxing tons of its daemon processes parts of the OS
0:51:14like sandbagging has to exist
0:51:18Apple should be the primary user of it they should be applying it pretty
0:51:22strictly to all parts of the OS they possibly can to have the police
0:51:26privileges at least access to and during that process
0:51:29apply it to their GUI applying it to you know they should be dog from this like
0:51:33crazy they should be reined it out for everything and then offering it to
0:51:37developers as this is a way for you to write your apt in a way that you don't
0:51:41have to worry about somebody hosing the entire person's computer like so it is a
0:51:45benefit not as like you have to do this because we say so and if your app
0:51:49doesn't work because of it oh well you get an exception at that time attacking
0:51:53time bomb that's gonna run out in about a year so stop selling crap or make a
0:51:57new act like it was just it was just done so badly and I feel like the
0:52:01technology had to be developed Apple should be using it all app developers
0:52:05can use it should be using it but it should not be that should have been
0:52:08awarding the Mac App Store in the way that is pushing out good apps entirely
0:52:12out of the store making people discouraged tonight even want develop a
0:52:15Mac out because I know
0:52:16to the matter my idea anymore anyway so I don't even bother just been not great
0:52:23yeah it seems to me that a lot of times Apple is do as I say not as I do and I
0:52:32think sandboxing is a great example of that and it's unfortunate because I
0:52:36think a lot of the pain that developers feel Apple either fields and says I will
0:52:42just not deal with that you know all this and boxing you I we can't do we
0:52:46want sandbox and most group
0:52:48we don't need to bother or you know there are some kinds like with with
0:52:53cloud kit where it's embraced its cloud Kingdom think you're right that that
0:52:58photos runs on you ok so the club kid gets embraced in from everything I've
0:53:02heard loud kids actually really solid because Apple dog food it's so it's
0:53:07unfortunate to me that that more of that doesn't happen or maybe if it is
0:53:10happening but nobody knows it because we're left to assume it's not happening
0:53:15and blame that as one of the big issues with say sandboxing but but maybe it is
0:53:21happening we're just not aware of it and I mean to me like that the Mac App Store
0:53:25as a whole to me and i dont have never had an appt for sale the Mac App Store
0:53:32so I haven't seen that side of it but just from reading with our friends say
0:53:35who do who are in it and some from using it as a user it just it seems like the
0:53:40Mac App Store is like Apple at its worst like all of Apple's I like the worst
0:53:45things they do they do most of those things in the Mac App Store and also
0:53:50there's very little up site so lucky
0:53:52the iOS App Store you have to put up with 30% you have to put up with all
0:53:55these rules and restrictions you have to do a preview but the upside is you get
0:54:00access to this massive massive customer base that is just incredibly high in
0:54:06volume and there's tons of money floating around and it's fairly easy you
0:54:10know it's possible for me for many people to make a good living there
0:54:15the Mac App Store has all the same downside of the iOS App Store plus it
0:54:21has a way smaller installed base than that I O S even among people who use
0:54:26Macs a smaller percentage of them use the Mac App Store also the Mac App Store
0:54:32app is I think one of the worst at the ships with OS 10 I mean it's just a
0:54:38terrible at its buggy it is confusing to navigate even when it works properly it
0:54:43is visually really wacky and inconsistent and dated looking i mean
0:54:48they're so it's a terrible at the mental model of those opposed my mind
0:54:52how many people know that if you click the Update button and immediately quit
0:54:56the app to the Upstate still continues in the background Michael who would who
0:54:59would guess that based on the model of any app they've ever use like this
0:55:02because it's so integrated into the system of the software update deal where
0:55:05the hell is running in the background like the fact that it could be
0:55:07downloading updates like it just totally breaks the model of an app that most
0:55:12people are you still on the max supercomputers yeah I mean so so the Mac
0:55:16App Store like it has all the downsides of the iOS App Store plus a number of
0:55:22additional downsides and very little of the same upside and so it's no wonder
0:55:28that know that a No in it and there's no activity their biggest downside is sadly
0:55:33that said before everybody involved that they're all alternatives to it like for
0:55:38all the things that developers had about the iOS App Store about 30% about not
0:55:42having your own customers about cutting be able to respond to reviews like just
0:55:46all those terrible things on the Mac people like herself right we are already
0:55:51big company where do you know how to sell things we turn to sell the Mac App
0:55:54Store we have the alternative right and so that means that they get all the
0:55:59benefits of you know be able to talk directly to customers balance updates
0:56:03like all that stuff but they also get all the downside that Apple is trying to
0:56:07help them to avoid like essentially if there had been only one place where you
0:56:11get software for your Mac and I'm not recommending this because I am an old
0:56:14man who likes things the old way but anyway that had been the case the Mac
0:56:18App Store ironically would actually be much better because people will be
0:56:21forced to get into it that will probably force Apple to deal with some of its
0:56:26rules you know like that hasn't happened in iOS it has no place like anything
0:56:31about the Ono interpreters ok well I guess games gonna have interpreters
0:56:34because they are you skipping like that's a that's a perfect example of
0:56:38let's make a bunch of really strict rules and then that's how unforeseen
0:56:43consequences in da says you gotta let us run Lua scripts that's how our home
0:56:47games work he is big enough for them to go all right all right you can run
0:56:51interpreter unless your game running a blog about line like every other place
0:56:55where something has been restricted in the iOS App Store if a big enough for
0:56:59enough important companies you know if it's
0:57:02at stopping them from selling in there or if they if they can't get their
0:57:05applications and they just think about the Mac App Store be like if that was
0:57:08the only way dobie could get Photoshop onto the Mac it would have to be very
0:57:12different sandboxing cannot existence was gonna say we're not interested in
0:57:16Photoshop for the Mac anymore sorry you know something will have to give this is
0:57:21all just a fantasy hypothetical scenario not something I recommend you can never
0:57:24actually happened for the Mac being with it is a general-purpose computer is not
0:57:28a closed system like I was blah blah blah understand all of this I'm just
0:57:31saying like due to that reality the Mac App Store is even worse even further
0:57:37handicapped by by the existence of a better readily available alternative the
0:57:43Mac developers already experienced with your last piece of follow-up is from
0:57:47Sarah and she had some very interesting points with regard to the watch which
0:57:53John you alluded to earlier you wanna tell us about these yeah this is about
0:57:58my market talking about the again the watch replacing the phone and I said
0:58:03that I hadn't heard anyone say that again markets a dozen people looking to
0:58:07have a lot to say no that's the thing that scary place the phone now right
0:58:10which is really just sort of excitement about anything and not a particular plan
0:58:15to do so here is an actual plan to do so she says as soon as the watch has a
0:58:19cellular radio I'll be ditching my phone and going with a watch + iPad set up and
0:58:24the reasons for this are things that hadn't occurred to me because i dont
0:58:27have these problems and the problems are women's clothing don't have as many
0:58:31pockets so you don't always have a place to your phone and the alternative of
0:58:35putting in a bag is a pain she refers to the email to the tyranny of the handbag
0:58:39is it real thing
0:58:40describes a phenomenon that I admit I also have not seen the ever been to a
0:58:45nightclub you'll see in women dancing awkwardly unable to move properly
0:58:48because they can put their baghdad anywhere
0:58:50our group of women dancing in a circle with their bags on the floor in the
0:58:52center so they can keep them safe for the women can still dance this is not a
0:58:57good situation and not something that comes up with the idea is if you can
0:59:02have a watch on your wrist you not to worry about a pocket to find to put the
0:59:05things you don't worry about that putting something valuable in your
0:59:07personal find someplace safe to put your purse
0:59:12seen a lot of water views and a lot of it is about like the freedom of your
0:59:16phone in your pocket I think there is a potential freedom in not only not run
0:59:22into your pocket but maybe not having to have your phone to perform some limited
0:59:26set of tasks like if you just want to sort of be in touch by phone and be able
0:59:31to send and receive text messages and some rudimentary way he may be the
0:59:34freedom that affords is worth the massive drop in in functionality to you
0:59:38would be sacrificing by not having a phone but only having a lot so there
0:59:43there's one vote four person is willing to do that as soon as the watch becomes
0:59:48a little bit more independent
0:59:50that's a very good point that you know we didn't think of because we didn't ask
0:59:55and this is what we want two things are trying to improve even you if you want a
0:59:59dog walk right if you go on a dog walk with Bluetooth headphones and meat
1:00:04products now it just promoting stuff onto the watch our adorable I wouldn't
1:00:08it be nice you said like I don't don't think my why don't you take my keys but
1:00:12I do is take my phone would you feel like you could get into a place where
1:00:15you gonna go out for dog and just like not have just had to watch on and that's
1:00:19it
1:00:19like if you what would what would they need to add to your watch for you to do
1:00:22that and not have to feel like it didn't give me well it would need to be able to
1:00:26run overcast that's number one like independently of the phones are not
1:00:29worth watching
1:00:30natural native overcast Apple would have my stuff on it saying everything's
1:00:33that's you know that's that's what I would need to do that the reality is I
1:00:36wouldn't face is probably personally pocket for your phone but I'm saying
1:00:40like what if you didn't if you didn't have to take it like oh well as be
1:00:44overcast like is not an app to your costly interacting with like you're
1:00:47listening right you know it's the ideal case of like oh that's all you need your
1:00:51podcast if you just need a native overcast and you're watching your
1:00:53watches you know I still radio whatever like if you got all that it's not your
1:00:58fingers and have it would you find yourself like you be taken from that had
1:01:01been eventually be like a maybe use it if you want to send a long text somebody
1:01:06on a dictator and arrest I don't have watched I can make all this yeah I don't
1:01:12know I mean if I I see why a lot of other people would want this
1:01:16runners joggers like the it they would they could do the kids like the chances
1:01:21of a phone flying idea pocket if you try to keep it in jogging shorts is way
1:01:24higher
1:01:25then if you keep it in like the jeans and terrible cargo shorts that I wear
1:01:29when I walk my dog they don't even need some new GPS yeah and and a lot of a lot
1:01:34of the exercise trackers have GPS for that reason yet but we'll see about that
1:01:40at that and that's why I like I can see the Apple watch adding GPS before I see
1:01:46it adding a cell radio necessarily as lower power at my wife has a big Garmin
1:01:51you know a Garmin like basically wrist watches the ugliest thing I've ever seen
1:01:54a big Garmin GPS she has an iPhone 5s right but she doesn't like to run with
1:01:59the phone with its big right so she put the government and why is she just to
1:02:03have a step tracking like she wants to know exactly how far she ran and maybe
1:02:08the route you took and tracking is not as accurate as UPS for measuring the
1:02:11things she wears the big bulky government thing so she didn't want to
1:02:15watch but maybe if that is if the Apple watch had GPS I think she could be
1:02:21compelled to buy one of you become more interested and I'll tell you I mean I
1:02:24don't know I don't think Apple what does can do distance accurately without the
1:02:29phone present his I don't know how it would well the documentation that I've
1:02:32read although I haven't tried this is that if you keep the phone with you
1:02:37it'll obviously use the phone's GPS to kind of cross referencing corroborate
1:02:42what it thinks but it knows how tall you are in knows how many steps you're
1:02:45taking and so it makes the best guesstimate based on what it thinks your
1:02:49stride is and how many steps he's taken to guess how far you've run and I think
1:02:56that it will kind of train itself based on the times are you actually have your
1:03:01phone with you and do the same things
1:03:03yeah I think that's our end tweet something like showing she brought a GPS
1:03:07with air and also the also the Apple watch after she calibrated and show they
1:03:11were only off by like you know fraction of a mile or something to try to show
1:03:14that you would think that step tracking could always but always be off by some
1:03:18but actually it can get pretty close but you know it not just distance people
1:03:22want GPS as they wanted a route they want to see a map I ran through the park
1:03:26I did this year I was going slow here is where I was going fast if that's what
1:03:29you want so you need you need to know
1:03:31two-dimensional position and forever throughout the 2012 National positioning
1:03:36and and distant tracking when I have the phone with me on my
1:03:38dog walks is great like I verified this site called gmap pedometer that lets you
1:03:45just like it's an elite and Google Maps and you can click out the route you took
1:03:50it and tell you how long that was I love tracking this now so I have never been
1:03:55into activity before I've never tracked anything about my activity I've never
1:03:59cared about fitness have never regularly done any fitness except I do walk my dog
1:04:04most days and we have a very hilly town and I and we walk between three quarters
1:04:10of a mile and a half miles depending on whether the ability and everything so
1:04:15I've now actually been really enjoying tracking that and seeing oh I have I've
1:04:20only gone and 1.2 miles maybe I should take this turn here in this block and
1:04:25added and I keep finding myself like adding to the route just to to help you
1:04:31know finish up my circles in the watch or to to beat yesterday's record of
1:04:35never it's really you know this unification stuff of fitness I know that
1:04:40it might not work for every day this stuff tends to work for a week and then
1:04:43you give up on it you don't have the antibodies that's that's what happened
1:04:47here you've been infected by the information you need to it from having
1:04:52had 17 different debates go through the washer whatever else so this is your
1:04:56first your first experience with this and it does have a it does have the
1:05:00Hawks looks like this you know I'm under no impression that this will last
1:05:04forever I hope it does but I know myself and how easy I am and how much I hate
1:05:09fitness so this will probably wear off the right now just wanted to finish
1:05:14those circles has gotten me to move more and to to complete my goals everyday
1:05:20like it is like I i have on my watch face I have only a couple complications
1:05:27and one of them is the activity rings and so I
1:05:30whenever I look at the watch I'm seeing so it's not like this thing I have to
1:05:34remember to check like a Fitbit or a pin or even like a pedometer affidavits
1:05:38pedometer up I have remember to check those this I don't even have to remember
1:05:42to check its its annoying me on the watch face every day until it's complete
1:05:47and so that like it actually does work I
1:05:52before the watch came out I was concerned about the big sensor bulge in
1:05:56the bottom of it for the fitness centers and I and I made a couple are marked as
1:05:58friends saying like you know if they made a version that didn't have that
1:06:02sensor bulge and lacked all the fitness features I'd rather have that version
1:06:06because it would be thinner it might be more comfortable and having that bulge
1:06:09there might be lighter blah blah blah yeah turns out I use those features I
1:06:14love those features so I'm really glad there is no option not to have them
1:06:19because they would have picked that option and I would have missed all this
1:06:21and missed out on the health benefits and stuff there are so so yeah I'm I'm
1:06:25very happy with this real-time follow up on my wife on an Apple ID she emphasizes
1:06:30that the main reason why she doesn't want the watch is because you can wear
1:06:33it work for security reasons I should have thought of that why it does have a
1:06:39camera anything at the microphone thanks again everything with Bluetooth or
1:06:43something that's so peculiar that lots of shows lots of security but anyway
1:06:48yeah otherwise I assume she would get it just to try it out to see what it's like
1:06:53yeah I would I'd like to echo everything I Marko said and we're gonna buy gas
1:06:59rather than talk about a minute we'll just talk about it right now I did get
1:07:02an apple watch I ended up i think i dirty talk about how he had ordered one
1:07:07on launch day at about 7:10 after seven in the morning eastern time what ended
1:07:12up happening was always loved this show that I'm sure was nice enough to offer
1:07:16me a spare watch that he had had he became upon the spare watch because he
1:07:20had ordered to the one that I always wanted which is the 42 millimeters space
1:07:24black sports space great sport he ordered one of those and then ordered a
1:07:29different want to believe it was the forty two millimeter white sport and
1:07:33decided that he actually liked the white sport or whatever it was I'm pretty sure
1:07:38that's right though and he was kind enough to offer to sell me the extra 42
1:07:43million no need space grey sport that he had and so that's what I did it was
1:07:49extremely gracious of him he didn't need to do that he could have absolutely
1:07:53raked over the coals in terms of cost so I am forever indebted to meet on but
1:07:58anyways I got my Apple watch and I really like it
1:08:02and hopefully by the time this airs I will put up my review of the Apple watch
1:08:06on my blog and so hopefully you will see a link in the show notes if you don't
1:08:10then yell at me to publish it but either way I completely agree with everything
1:08:14you said that having the Rings as a complication which I do and seeing the
1:08:20knowledge to stand up in seeing God I really need to just go for like a 10
1:08:24minute power walk around the neighborhood that absolutely has gotten
1:08:28me moving more than I did before and yes maybe in a month or even in a week that
1:08:33all go away and I'll just find this to be silly but today I love it and it's
1:08:39absolutely causing me to move more our second bunch of this week is igloo igloo
1:08:45isn't internet you will actually like with a glue you can share news organize
1:08:49your files coordinate counters and manage projects all in one place it's
1:08:54like taking the best of the web and productivity apps counters where like
1:08:58microblogs file-sharing task management wikis and more all available privately
1:09:03and securely for your company or group
1:09:06internets are highly functional stylish easy to use with widget based
1:09:10drag-n-drop interfaces they also have a have an upgrade this past fall and
1:09:15spring called Viking which evolves around documents and how you interact
1:09:19with them gather feedback and make changes they've even had the ability to
1:09:23track who has read critical information on your internet to keep everyone on the
1:09:27same page and Allegri receipts an email though it's annoying to help you track
1:09:31whether employees have read it and acknowledged policies sign off on legal
1:09:35agreements or confirm completion of training materials very important for
1:09:39businesses to be able to have confirmation of those things and all
1:09:43they do is built on a very advanced html5 platform it's fully responsive and
1:09:49offers all the all these features all the features the the document tracking
1:09:53annotations document viewing all sorts of stuff track things with it offers all
1:09:58of this in html5 so you can do although their mobile devices it's really quite
1:10:03impressive you can preview and edit documents and attractions all this stuff
1:10:07no matter what device you're on full functionality whether it's computer
1:10:10iPhone Android phone or even a blackberry they make it work on all
1:10:14these devices
1:10:15html5 and also because it's responsive it looks good and all those devices and
1:10:20the new devices come out new screen sizes come out already works on them so
1:10:25if your company has a legacy internet look it was built in the nineties you
1:10:28should definitely give it a try
1:10:30they are even completely free to use for as long as you want for groups of 10 or
1:10:35fewer people so really if you have a small company or group for 10 if your
1:10:39people in it you gotta give it a try but it's free what you have nothing to lose
1:10:43if not you can go check it out and you should still give a try because it is
1:10:47really very reasonably priced after that and really you can get and you get a
1:10:51free trial of course so there's so much about a clue to like it is really for
1:10:55businesses that needed internet which is most businesses you gotta check it out
1:10:59it's so much better than everything else out there that does this so sign up for
1:11:02a free trial today at igloo software dot com slash ATP igloo the internet you
1:11:08will actually like thank you very much to a clue igloo software dot com slash
1:11:12ATP yes please resist the urge to write your own Internet plays for everyone
1:11:17involved and never works out
1:11:19amen to that alright so Facebook came out with instant articles the gist of it
1:11:26is that Facebook has now launched this platform system whatever you want to
1:11:32call it for publishers like the new york times and BuzzFeed in TechCrunch like
1:11:36four major publishers and I think it works by page but we'll see anyway
1:11:41they've launched thing for publishers can now have articles that pop up and
1:11:47can be read completely within the Facebook apps and the Facebook site at
1:11:52least the apps after what matters most in demand for mobile stuff and and so
1:11:56any idea here is interesting so you know there's so publishers so that the idea
1:12:02is they don't want you going to the publishers websites to read them are
1:12:06popping up a a WebView in the app on the New York Times dot com whatever they
1:12:12want the article to display directly within the Facebook app natively in the
1:12:16interface have have all the images and stuff loaded up there and and be able to
1:12:20do dynamic cool animated stuff and everything else i I have a pretty
1:12:26cynical view of this but i i think it's inevitable John Germany think so
1:12:31the first part of those interested in with the instant part because just
1:12:34technologically like you know this is a native app looks like it's by the simple
1:12:39to the paper app I saw tweeted by Mike Matusow find out about us assume he's
1:12:43involved it's very slick looking at the pitch to the user is your gonna launched
1:12:51Facebook anyway you're going to school three years here you know your Facebook
1:12:54feed right that's something you're going to do anyway when you see something
1:12:58interesting in your Facebook feed
1:12:59like someone posted I can article I go I saw this girl can you might wanna check
1:13:03it out to Reston commentary when you tap on that whether it's like a movie
1:13:07reviewer you know some things for you to be outraged about and then yelled out on
1:13:11Facebook revered as they want you to be able to tap on that thing and not have
1:13:15to wait for a web page they want you to tap and immediately be reading your
1:13:19article right and of course all the demos thereof
1:13:21from national geographic or something with a beautiful picture and or whatever
1:13:25but as i think i emphasize like unlike marcos traditional criticism of paper
1:13:31which is that the app looks great of all your friends are beautiful people who
1:13:34are always on vacation in California adding that to the instant thing is like
1:13:41okay well this is not articles to your friends made 20 articles in The New York
1:13:46Times or you know poster whatever like these are professionally produced things
1:13:51you know and the chances of them looking nice and enticing your timeline is
1:13:55really high but they want to make it so that when you're going through a
1:13:58timeline that you can consume knows as easily as you can read a comment for
1:14:02somebody is going to tap on it and it instantly there and that is a if that
1:14:07works as advertised
1:14:08that's a great and user benefit because people do scroll through timelines and
1:14:13people do want occasionally things and I know that I often feel I would like to
1:14:18read that but I don't wanna wait for them to lower it sounds stupid it's like
1:14:20you can't wait 2 seconds or something you like you're on wifi your iPhone 6
1:14:24not going to take any age too low but sometimes just like just the idea of the
1:14:27screen blanking going through a spinner and having hit the back
1:14:30blah blah just waiting for that number all spoiled but I wouldn't use the
1:14:36analogy of like the studies that I think Google Yahoo did it ever like what does
1:14:40an extra 200 milliseconds response time on a server due to the the purchase
1:14:44rates of items in a store and it's like tremendous effects of a tiny speed
1:14:50change of speed page loading you would think like shaving 200 milliseconds off
1:14:57of the products page make a difference in sales and the answer was like yes a
1:15:02tremendous difference like there's a huge cliff after which people just
1:15:04aren't interested in lose you know and so that effect i think is real for
1:15:08people as they say
1:15:10Marco can filter the next my voice and my kids here
1:15:13engaging with content as reading at a staff meeting the stuff that's in the
1:15:18time like someone post a link to an article are you can actually read that
1:15:20are going to go right past it if it loads quote-unquote instantly then you
1:15:25won't and the reason I think this is an interesting reframing is because as we
1:15:28all know I can't actually like this nothing instant all doing is preloading
1:15:33it right that's all you know is just spending a different time doing it
1:15:37rather than waiting and you know tons of browsers do is chrome I think was the
1:15:41first one to really aggressively do it like prefetching all the pages link for
1:15:44a page Google Prefecture as the first search results or chrome that you like
1:15:48we're going to load it before you tap it so that by the time you tap it is loaded
1:15:52it's also it's also presumably looking less stuff like you know it's probably
1:15:56also not loading the million different JavaScript trackers a load some of them
1:16:01because that is compatible with publishers tracking system that
1:16:04publishers ad systems so it will be loading some of that stuff but I think I
1:16:08think I would bet and you know it's not loading giant stylesheet giant
1:16:12JavaScript includes for the site theme in the header and everything like you
1:16:16don't think I'm I'm betting that it's it's only loading the article + tracking
1:16:23stuff and add stuff like not necessarily the tremendous sidebars the all the
1:16:27related content if you look at if you look at the typical article page 44 a
1:16:30major site there's so much other crap on that page and so many includes for style
1:16:37and Java stuff like this so much stuff a lot that's going to be there in the
1:16:41Facebook version cuz they're gonna want their tracking
1:16:43want their money and Facebook support those things but I bet it's going to be
1:16:47a lot less than having like the headers and footers the sidebars all that crap
1:16:51that though is loaded I was just thinking they're going to be more pills
1:16:54again a richer experience which is code for gonna take it year downloads who's
1:16:58gonna have a lot of stuff in it but you know it could it could be better there
1:17:01is it's conceivable it'll be lighter weight due to the shared resources among
1:17:05all the articles but but basically it's time shifting gets its clever pre
1:17:10cashing of things that they that you know we will fetch it for you so that
1:17:14when you tap it is there which is a great idea for thing but trying for an
1:17:18application benefit but trying to sell that is instant I don't see how that can
1:17:22can fulfill its promise because it's got it down the sink some time and if your
1:17:28connection is slow and you launch the app and you scroll through it it's not
1:17:31get any tap on the first thing you see and if it doesn't have you you know it's
1:17:35gonna background downloading like I'm sure they do everything in their power
1:17:37and that was a platform to try to get us that download it before you tap on it
1:17:40but sometimes you're going to win the race and when you do that it's going to
1:17:44be like to be instant because it won't it won't be instant is a reasonable
1:17:49selling point that they can but like putting it right in the name may end up
1:17:53backfiring so that's that's one thing just the simple technology behind what
1:17:58is this thing what do the selling point for use of pepper well I mean do you
1:18:02think the name is actually meant to be like this is why Facebook is doing it or
1:18:08do you think the name is a red herring to convince people that they should do
1:18:11this thing that massively benefits Facebook that's what I'm gas like this
1:18:15this is the end user this is the end user story why would you be interested
1:18:19in the future hinson articles you want to read them you know have to wait good
1:18:22but it is it is the least interesting aspect of this feature from the sort of
1:18:26strategic perspective the user's perspective is Facebook saying we want
1:18:32to be the the place where people get your content don't send them to your
1:18:36website in fact why even bother having website once you do everything through
1:18:39us be able to create a network we can do kool ad targeting you could advertise
1:18:42300 percent of the revenue from all the people who go through but it's totally
1:18:46great guys come right in
1:18:47you know like I hope all the content providers are smart enough to not sort
1:18:53of fall into this trap because
1:18:55it's giving Facebook if this if this was super successful and it became one of
1:18:59those things like well you gotta have a facebook is an article you can't there's
1:19:02no way you can get in traffic about doing that that spells bad news for
1:19:06everybody several Facebook everybody consumers you know websites everybody
1:19:11and so I really hope it doesn't succeed in 16 but like I kinda like and to do it
1:19:18doesn't succeed not because it's not a benefit to the end user because I don't
1:19:22want Facebook to be the the gateway for most of the things that people read
1:19:29because no I don't I mean unfortunately I think that's the reality you know and
1:19:36that you know i i think we've been feeling for a while and a lot of people
1:19:40I don't think are are ready to to see or admit this yet but the web is really
1:19:46dramatically losing relevance not the internet but the web
1:19:51the the web is viewed in web browsers that is so dramatically losing relevance
1:19:56in in the age of mobile and absent and they have stuff now and social stuff at
1:20:01the web is losing its not going to die over the losing I feel like as it goes
1:20:08in cycles and I you know I guess it's not gonna die you can't kill it because
1:20:13it is available right but it does does going so it's kind of the same things
1:20:17people said about giving Apple power by like you shouldn't have a website you
1:20:20should just have a nap right and that's the same as I situation you would want
1:20:24to get out of that power at all but the way it looks like a check out to me is
1:20:28that every website has an appt but it is not made the websites go away and this
1:20:32Facebook thing looks much more capable of making the web site's become like the
1:20:38new york times out but there's no way the New York Times out is ever going to
1:20:41make the New Times website go away as New York Times if there was a New York
1:20:45Times instant article thing to Facebook just so much bigger than a pond already
1:20:48has already succeeded so far gotten so far getting everybody to consume
1:20:53everything through the Facebook feed that terrify like they're closer to
1:20:57being able to suck publications in and make their websites irrelevant I mean
1:21:02this is like this is way bigger than Google News ever was back in the day
1:21:06that was a man that was a big deal and publishers were
1:21:08trying to threaten to sue them but then they didn't want to block by them are
1:21:12committed to that would be even more even more disastrous this is like that
1:21:15times 10 I really do think that web browsing is really in trouble and as a
1:21:21result publishers are in trouble I i read article with a terrible title about
1:21:26this about a year ago or something I i think is very clear that all of this
1:21:31social usage all the time people are spending using apps and using social
1:21:38networks on their phones and stuff is some of that is attitude when people are
1:21:42just waiting in line at the bank or something where they weren't doing these
1:21:45things before but a lot of that is also time that has been taken away from
1:21:50browsing the web reading publisher sites reading RSS and stuff like that for the
1:21:55geeks like this is actually been all this this social activity is competing
1:22:03with that and has taken a lot of it I do I worry a lot about the future of the
1:22:08web I really don't think this is a small trend or a temporary thing or something
1:22:12that that is guaranteed to just had the pendulum swing back the other way
1:22:16eventually I think this is a major shift that people have voted with their time
1:22:22and with their activity in with their attention they have voted for
1:22:26centralized proprietary ecosystems focused on social and snack a political
1:22:32traffic in these social networks Facebook mostly some Twitter stuff like
1:22:37that like that people have voted that's what they're going that's what they want
1:22:41the internet to be people on the whole don't care about the open web they don't
1:22:45care about everyone having their own site of the only control and being able
1:22:49to browse things through open standards people don't care a few keeps care even
1:22:53we have moved so much of our activity to Twitter and stuff like this this is a
1:22:58massive trend that I think it would be unwise to ignore and unfortunately you
1:23:04know just like just like when we moved from the previous systems that we had to
1:23:09the web
1:23:11there was a lot of good that came from that a lot of big numbers that came with
1:23:15that letter new abilities that came with that
1:23:17but not everything transitioned over not everybody was a winner there and and a
1:23:23lot of things just well you know that that that thing that used to work now
1:23:26doesn't or that role that used to have now we don't need you anymore that is
1:23:31that is happening now with with the move towards apps to move towards social
1:23:35stuff and with so much traffic to web publishers now coming from mobile and
1:23:41social music not coming from blog links and search engines and people browsing
1:23:47and web browsers on the computers like that shift is happening and has happened
1:23:52like that we are already very much into that shift characterized it does a
1:23:57series of swings but not so much the pendulum one thing does supplant the
1:24:02other but like almost in terms of that we're getting into a more balanced
1:24:06situation now and the supremacy of the web was actually on balance because what
1:24:13the website you do
1:24:14originally was read stuff like articles ride and for a long time since that was
1:24:21so dominant was like that defined the internet was the web right and what the
1:24:24weather to do is read stuff people are spending a lot more of their time
1:24:28reading stuff even if you want to RSS that and now we've shifted because
1:24:37there's ways to do things other than read stuff you can text people text
1:24:41messaging was one of the first steps now I'm writing stuff right you can play
1:24:45games you can watch movies you can keep you know use native apps to do things
1:24:51that are very different then you're reading a big page of stuff and so I
1:24:56feel like this is an adjustment in terms of activity choices like people read the
1:25:01web less because they're doing things more what are they doing on the phone
1:25:04they're not doing the equivalent to bring the web they're doing something
1:25:06different and why couldn't they do it on the web because the web take a long time
1:25:09to get that kind of interactivity and everything
1:25:11so I think maybe we're more in balance now the reason this instant article
1:25:16thing is is scary because it is asking people to do the one thing that the web
1:25:22you know is best suited for like you know reading stuff public publishing or
1:25:27publishing platform anybody can make a website you can start publishing stuff
1:25:30at the entire world can read it and what kind of stuff about a bunch of texts and
1:25:35pictures right that is likely core competency of attacks reading things of
1:25:40the web reading things if Facebook can get that into their you know it's not
1:25:44even interactive things on a social network like for you know like a tard
1:25:47the articles in The Social Network you're reading the article right if they
1:25:51can pull that away from the web now you're really starting to pull the core
1:25:56of like what the web what the web does in a non-proprietary way it's as if
1:26:01someone tried to replace the email with the system that was exactly like email
1:26:04but a hundred percent proprietary and that so far hasn't worked despite you
1:26:07know being super terrible way worse than the weather wasn't terms of no
1:26:11authentication spam and all the things that we had about email the weather like
1:26:15up on that
1:26:16well has that not worked how about I message not email like emails when you
1:26:20write a long form thing but even text message like you would think that go
1:26:24ahead a hundred ways I can write to somebody academic Twitter DMI corrected
1:26:27them and slack I could do this like you that email survives despite it being
1:26:30terrible Facebook messages are pretty big I know but you know i mean perhaps
1:26:36the main thing keeping him alive is that you can even sign up for any service
1:26:39that an email like it is the linchpin system right when you gonna put in the
1:26:42you know i mean and I thought the web has the same longevity but it would be a
1:26:47huge mistake for anybody publishing on the web to give Facebook too much power
1:26:50and with web publication struggling to figure out their minds they sent
1:26:54strategies and all this other stuff they are vulnerable to to do you know to
1:27:00being like well we gotta do something and that's because the great advertising
1:27:03platform that hoe gillian users and then you know you just wait a year in
1:27:06Facebook's turning the screws me like actually show you are a lot of people as
1:27:10you pass which is the whole big thing and just yeah that's the thing I mean
1:27:13this is why this is such a terrible situation I mean I think because of the
1:27:20move toward everything being mobile because so much
1:27:24traffic to publishers websites now has to come from social services I'm not
1:27:28sure the publishers have much of a choice you know it's it's just like when
1:27:31Google News
1:27:32you know when people threatened in middle block them and then like beg to
1:27:36be let back in
1:27:37there's all these like you know situation where one party has just
1:27:40tremendous power on the web and publishers much have to play ball at
1:27:45them because they can't afford not to have that audience on to have that
1:27:48traffic Facebook is that platform today and publishers depends so much on
1:27:55getting social traffic and Facebook is so good at delivering that traffic
1:28:01sometimes only if you pay and being really cagey about it like this is of
1:28:07course that's their plan of course their plan is to have is to move even more
1:28:11activity in to Facebook its it comes from not only a position of greed but
1:28:18also position of just arrogance like our appt is better than your website you
1:28:24know you you're incapable of making pages to load quickly even though this
1:28:28can be solved by smart web design and a good CD and a lot of times they're right
1:28:31though unfortunately that's yet but not every time but anyway you know like they
1:28:35this move is them just you know annexing more of the web like hey you know what
1:28:40we are so powerful that you have to play ball with us we're going to offer this
1:28:44thing now and our partners who use this their stuff is gonna ranked a lot higher
1:28:49than a random link to an arbitrary site now and the timelines and turn the
1:28:55screws right they are so good at that that's what they do you would think they
1:28:59would figure it out by now my kind of music labels figured out after the
1:29:02iTunes thing like maybe don't give one company too much power right you last
1:29:06minute labels how they're doing right now
1:29:07well but like I mean they eventually figured out and now it's kind of like
1:29:10accepted wisdom in the in the digital publishing
1:29:13you know digital media like music movies or whatever that it is a huge mistake to
1:29:18put all your eggs in the basket one technology company despite the fact that
1:29:20all the media companies have proven they can do the technology themselves they've
1:29:23learned I think just just received wisdom now even if you can't just take
1:29:29yourself but you can't because you never give one company all your stuff never
1:29:34level get too big never let Amazon get too big never let you know like and they
1:29:37all know that right and maybe they know it too well and are being stubborn with
1:29:42things like TV with a view to making progress bottle blob you would think in
1:29:45the web they would also know that by now as well that like any of those look at
1:29:48your books on Amazon like oh boy that was a big mistake they give Amazon a
1:29:52much power in the book industry and they tried to balance it with apple and you
1:29:56know that I'm quite work out the way they wanted to read so I'm hoping
1:30:00everybody web publishing even though they're in the same dire situation of
1:30:02like we can't figure out how to monetize became reach our audience socialist
1:30:05takeover Baba hope that someone in the meeting like raises their hand and says
1:30:10this is all good and all and I love these numbers in the projections and
1:30:14blah blah blah but we really need to hedge because if we put all our eggs in
1:30:18the Facebook basket they will own us it will be bad I I think you're right they
1:30:23should be saying that however I don't they have another choice that's and
1:30:27that's why Facebook can do this this is like the Internet is really a week we
1:30:31like to think that the Internet is this platform that enables all this openness
1:30:34in everything it does and it can but it also enables massive consolidation of
1:30:40power and consolidation of attention and using proprietary lockdown systems we
1:30:45keep seeing it again and and that's only going to continue and it's a very clear
1:30:51that when you have these centralized systems like facebook like Twitter like
1:30:56Amazon you you can you can offer benefits that like Google you can even
1:31:00offer benefit the get people in in such massive numbers that you could get a
1:31:05trip like that that private company gets a tremendous amount of power and can
1:31:09basically dictator terms to the rest of the world then everything like we're
1:31:13saying this is really potentially really bad and they shouldn't give Facebook
1:31:16overpowered the Fed is Facebook already has power and if someone's not gonna
1:31:20play ball with Facebook they're gonna start losing Facebook search traffic or
1:31:24Facebook social traffic
1:31:25and they're gonna be there gonna be forced to play ball they're going to
1:31:28their hands are gonna be forced well they've got the same game plan as the
1:31:32music label that you're going to find a projection
1:31:35they're only they're they're best in their only hedges unfortunately to try
1:31:39to spread a little bit of your content to another proprietary centralized
1:31:44things like in other words Twitter with the cards and whatever like a plate
1:31:48whatever baseballs and each other
1:31:50Facebook just some of the bigger than that anyway but that's what they've got
1:31:54the option is let's also keep talking to Twitter about their thing and whatever
1:31:58new social network thing like let's also talk to them about like no exclusivity
1:32:02deals try to hedge your bets the best you can Zoe music was nothing when
1:32:09iTunes was done it but by being given tons of attention by being given DRM
1:32:14free music before I was given it by all the music labels and everything it
1:32:17helped to make Amazon into perhaps not the competitive they all wish it was but
1:32:21at least iTunes is now not the only game in town or Spotify and other streaming
1:32:26services even that the streaming services I I bet music labels want to
1:32:30spread things around the difference dreams are as they wouldn't like one to
1:32:32be dominated just something that tends to happen Amazon is a massively dominant
1:32:38online commerce Walmart is massively diamond in the USA and retail Facebook
1:32:42is massively dominant online social a bummer but there's something else here
1:32:47though which i think is is worth pointing out that there's a difference
1:32:49in the power balance between your example that you just gave the most part
1:32:52and and this which is like you know if if if you're popular kind of product is
1:32:57constantly being searched for on Amazon and Amazon doesn't have it that makes
1:33:00them look bad and was like 10 needs that it was the music label negotiations but
1:33:04there's only one for music labels you know if if a big music store launches
1:33:09and they don't have one of them that's a big problem that's like it's going to
1:33:12result in a lot of people looking for stuff not finding it and that negatively
1:33:16affecting the chance they're going to keep you in the music service or keep
1:33:19buying that store even keep bothering to search their with Facebook and these
1:33:23publishers Facebook doesn't really need any of them like at all like this is
1:33:27this is purely for the publishers benefit to be in this system if the
1:33:32publishers if anyone publisher or any group publishes decide they're not gonna
1:33:35do it
1:33:36Facebook couldn't possibly care lest they don't need them
1:33:39need them but they want them they want they want their place to be the gateway
1:33:42to that they don't want i mean you know share on Facebook like you can go to
1:33:45website and the share on the news every article share article in every possible
1:33:48social service but that's not the integration of people but Facebook want
1:33:53they want you to go to Facebook to find our cannot go to the website to find the
1:33:56article minute share button to share with people typically do want to do that
1:33:59because they want people to be you know looking at things on Facebook but it's
1:34:02the inversion of like you know website what website we only knew the only you
1:34:07publish your content to our system on our terms to the people we say you can
1:34:10you can retried and I guess the web
1:34:12keeping the website themselves their edge on that but like I don't know what
1:34:18the best move for them as they do need to reach people like I can think about
1:34:21is how much it could be worse like imagine if Facebook and YouTube like
1:34:26we'd all be screwed like it's game over just is and YouTube itself is pretty
1:34:32dominant but then you said twitchy like well maybe you to achieve YouTube Google
1:34:37aunt which now I keep my forget didn't have any way to consolidation is evil
1:34:43everything old is new again and so I suspect that before too long will be
1:34:48seen keywords on commercials and we'll talk about that right after this
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1:35:23space 7 launched last fall and now it's even more integrated with what you see
1:35:27is what you get kind of environment where now there is no more distinction
1:35:31between the editing interface and the publishing and the publisher site you
1:35:36just edit the site right there like you hit a little anything in the corner and
1:35:40the toolbar slides in and you're editing the site live right there and you don't
1:35:45have to publish or change you can keep track of everything but the fact is this
1:35:49bouncing between these two totally different
1:35:52worlds of the editing versus the live site it's all just right there very well
1:35:56integrated and of course where space gives you fully responsive design
1:36:01optimized for mobile you can now even preview the Mobile layout in a regular
1:36:05browser can simulate those with for you and and you know it's it's just so
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1:36:15galleries blog post whatever the case headlines whatever whatever you wanna do
1:36:18you can put all of that right into your site drag-n-drop very easy if you do
1:36:23want to customize things even further like the geeks like us you can insert
1:36:27JavaScript and CSS and just arbitrary HTML into your headers and footers right
1:36:32in this Christmas interface so we do a couple of minor tweaks like that to our
1:36:35site tomorrow you know tonight with some of the layout stuff and it's great you
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1:38:25ATP eating a 10% off your first purchase thank you very much to Squarespace for
1:38:28supporting our show Squarespace start here go anywhere
1:38:33Verizon bought a oh well which is weird what's that all about
1:38:41I don't know some people said it was about ad technology I i dont know that
1:38:45seems to make sense to me cuz what else could it be about dial-up I don't mean
1:38:50they do have a bunch of popular websites and some of the spin has been like I was
1:38:54content with that like having them posters TechCrunch there's two like they
1:38:58have a bunch of properties like it would be like holding company at this point
1:39:01but from everything I've read about the CEO did to make the the the company
1:39:07desirable as acquisition is focused on how like trying to make this company a
1:39:14compliment for the things that other companies I need to know so that their
1:39:17advertising technology to serve serve rich as video and the people targeted
1:39:24you know if someone is looking for that ability and the ability to reach a large
1:39:29number of people that's what aol has backed themselves up into an exalted
1:39:33depressing numbers of like how lol stolen from you know the time and they
1:39:37were doing the time-warner merger for 380 billion or whatever they sold
1:39:41himself or part of it is like the name AOL like the company's always been
1:39:46increasingly more than what we think overall we think of AOL
1:39:50but then I just think about all those people to start charging for diabetes
1:39:53angry is the locus to lowercase who had just like looks like AOL and angry and
1:39:59well not because I think like that its people shouldn't have dialogue but I'm
1:40:04angry like at our situation in this country that if your best internet
1:40:08option within your budget is is dialogue on AOL we are failing as a as a country
1:40:14you know like I feel like this plane broadband affordable broadband access
1:40:20should be important enough that it should be subsidized you know maybe not
1:40:26subsidize but like we should whatever we have to do to make it affordable as at
1:40:30as at affordable as having a telephone line is that's what internet access
1:40:33should be and if your only option is literal dial up over a modem to AOL then
1:40:39things have gone horribly wrong
1:40:40yeah I'd say so I don't have been Thompson a pretty good take on this that
1:40:45I skimmed very quickly before we recorded and it seems like it is about
1:40:51and technology I don't know it's just there has a bunch of internet properties
1:40:58like TechCrunch for example in there was a time where I really hated TechCrunch
1:41:01but I actually have come back around and it helps that our friend Matt pincer
1:41:06knows there there's a lot of really good properties there and I'm gonna be fairly
1:41:12sad when Verizon inevitably forces editorial opinions on all of them but
1:41:17they will sell them before they do that I would assume that if not interesting
1:41:21content themselves things off maybe I mean they they probably do make money
1:41:25though I don't know it I've never worked in a bit publisher I have no idea how
1:41:31you know in theory they all attempt to maintain editorial independence from
1:41:36their corporate donors it in practice I don't know how hard that is it if I had
1:41:42to guess I'm guessing that they can usually do that most of the time but
1:41:47maybe some time to get we are too hard I don't know I don't have Verizon is like
1:41:51roger ailes I don't think they have a big you know ideological slanted they're
1:41:55going to impose on the Huffington Post in tech
1:41:57yeah probably not the Verizon tracking cookies all the sites you know that
1:42:03because already on their network anyway like Verizon just want your eyeballs and
1:42:08your monthly check right and so this is just furthering their goals they would
1:42:13it be to me think of someone who would rather have had bio AOL will be rather a
1:42:18table go bankrupt like what is the alternative scenarios for the future of
1:42:23AOL that we would like better than Verizon I mean I got him getting out is
1:42:28that it's not I didn't you know sort of cringe when I saw this announcement the
1:42:34same way I did when I saw like Facebook bought Instagram right sometimes you see
1:42:37a consolidation like I know right
1:42:40this one it's like yeah alright I mean like to be worse right like Verizon
1:42:45could murder of Comcast like to share many more storms they scenarios than
1:42:48than Verizon by the AOL any Verizon could just agree to just stop competing
1:42:53with comcast is not putting out fires can only do that with billions and
1:42:59billions of speaking of subsidies of billions and billions of dollars and the
1:43:02government they need more billions now well could talk I guess doing is a
1:43:09result the same
1:43:10Verizon Business had to say is that it's of all the murders that have taken place
1:43:15June big companies this one seems like all right whatever is this so the AOL
1:43:26Time Warner thing between that and HP Compaq which was the worst merger in
1:43:32history
1:43:33AOL Time Warner that was bigger than XP compact yeah because HP Compaq of these
1:43:37like were similar indeed similar things and its consolidation that made some
1:43:42sense especially in a market where Microsoft was grabbing ever larger
1:43:45values of the PC market and hardware vendors are being pushed harder and
1:43:49harder that is going to be consolidation among them and they both had 10 of an
1:43:52enterprise angle like HP Compaq make some sense and it looks bad because the
1:43:56entire PC sector is contracting as Microsoft sucked all the oxygen out of
1:44:00it
1:44:00fantasy of life the Internet in Hollywood are together
1:44:04and TV shows like this is just a fantasy of some c-level executives had like
1:44:10billions of dollars in little birdies and starts spinning around people's
1:44:14heads thinking this is going to be the new journey not just like you know I
1:44:21thought that was a much bigger disaster response this week
1:44:26cards against humanity igloo and Squarespace and we will see you next
1:44:30week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental
1:44:42john Kasay
1:44:49it was accidental and a team markle
1:45:32talk about your audio engine talk about that now to say I'm working on my
1:45:38streaming engine which engine is this 141 number one attempt number for every
1:45:46every couple of days on Twitter somebody asks the overcast account when you get
1:45:51ahead streaming God finally you know someone that and they do have a point to
1:45:55you and you doing the voice for the final thing but streaming was discussed
1:45:59on this very program along time ago as an important upcoming feature for
1:46:03overcast yeah my goal was to add it like last fall that hasn't happened yet and
1:46:08it's not because I have been working on it it's because I haven't cut it to work
1:46:12I making progress and I haven't you know I have been working on only streaming in
1:46:19overcast for the last year or whatever like I've been doing other things as
1:46:23well yeah like walking near talk like walking might as well as testing of
1:46:27against the simple stuff like you know like the entire rest of the appetite
1:46:33been working on something that I have I have tried to write a streaming engine
1:46:39for overcast on a number of occasions and I keep doing it badly the 17 writing
1:46:45over the last two weeks is significantly better ever gotten significantly further
1:46:51and got with any other attempts before I think I'll be able to do it I i think
1:46:57the 1 I'm writing now is going to be the one so John deals in the chat asking is
1:47:03there an off the shelf streaming solution I have looked at a couple of
1:47:06package to have even tried to integrate some of them that that claim to offer
1:47:10this none of them have worked for me and and some of them some of them they
1:47:15haven't worked for me because they have just annoying shortcomings that that
1:47:20would be a problem in my app things like oh we you know this will support
1:47:24streaming of everything except mp4 files that's a bit of a problem for podcasts
1:47:29and any AAC encoder podcast is wrapped in an mp4 container simple things like
1:47:34no way to get id3 information that might be a problem for me in the future I
1:47:39wanna parts that you know no ability to stoop to jump around
1:47:44in certain formats in certain cases like there's there's there's problems
1:47:47limitation with a lot of the package is out there that if you're writing an app
1:47:51where you are streaming from a known set of sources that you know like if you
1:47:56control the source and then you can say well we're only going to serve mp3
1:48:00format streams for instance and so you know what you're gonna be reading and
1:48:04you have control over that you love more options
1:48:07first of all if you don't need smart speed you need a player like that the
1:48:12basic things like for for most people you don't need to be working at this
1:48:17level because most applications eighty player will work just fine for you the
1:48:24only reason they need to get this level is to get smart speed working now
1:48:27another option they can make soros has a radio this this is the this is one of
1:48:32the only other apps that has silenced getting as a feature I met him at a news
1:48:37conference this year is really nice guy and I asked him why I know that he
1:48:41supports streaming and he has found skipping and asked him how he did it and
1:48:44he said he just doesn't have sound skipping and effects when its treatment
1:48:50and he he just has two different paths in the code we're like if he's playing a
1:48:55video or playing audio file office stream he just uses every player and
1:49:01then if he's not uses his other audio effects and I could do I could go down
1:49:06that route 2 I'm just choosing not to so I could have offered streaming at the
1:49:11very beginning and just say well you can stream but just then smart speed won't
1:49:16work in a few street I just choosing I don't want that like i don't i don't
1:49:20want that to my solution I want I want smart speed invoice boost and other
1:49:24affected you in the future I want those all to be available no matter what the
1:49:28source of the of the audio is whether you're streaming it whether you know
1:49:31whether you're playing off a local file etc also a TV Player you can't save the
1:49:35contents of a stream and I don't like that I would like I think if your gonna
1:49:40stream data ones you should be able to write that data to local disk and you
1:49:44know be able to play it offline afterwards if you want to so again
1:49:49limitation with the built-in stuff I could have used different modes wrestled
1:49:53well this moody up his limitations I'd rather not do that
1:49:56I'll just have one smart solid system that applies the same rules a matter of
1:50:01the data comes from and give you the same features of the data comes so
1:50:05that's why I'm doing it the hard way and it's very hard and that that might not
1:50:08be the right answer that this might be a terrible idea it might not be worth it
1:50:13but this is how you do it like once you kind of really from reading your
1:50:19messages seems like if any of the steering frameworks gave you a place to
1:50:23sort of insert your own code into the stream where you could do you smart
1:50:27sweet stuff you'd you'd be all set but never none of them seem to give you that
1:50:30low-level access because they always assume you know will take everything for
1:50:34you just pointed to the stream and we'll get the others like no I won't I need to
1:50:37be in there any to look at the bites close by and do stuff with it right so
1:50:41what you're essentially doing is a lot of work to be done for you and other
1:50:45frameworks just even get that one access point is this correct characterization
1:50:48oh yeah that's that's that's part of it and even just like just the way the
1:50:54frameworks work the way they're structured the way I like how the code
1:50:57does certain things there's there's a couple of different low-level audio AP
1:51:01eyes that you could be using I have to be working at basically the lowest level
1:51:06to do what I do and and so some of them don't work at a level that low some of
1:51:11them do but in a weird way that has limitations like this
1:51:14some of them are basically is doing what I'm doing and I can just look at them
1:51:16and see you know some tricks they do or something you know somewhere thing but
1:51:20for the most part now another figure out the right way to do it I think I think
1:51:26I'm making good progress so I'll get there has to be your new Instapaper
1:51:30tableview gridview it's like you do this thing you found out you gotta think I am
1:51:35streaming engine supports all the features to iOS releases later they
1:51:38ad looks taller API's that you could do smart like that's just that's gotta do
1:51:44what you gotta do but I don't know maybe maybe this will never be important
1:51:47enough for them to do like the collection views was eventually
1:51:50important nothing to do but it's tons of apps have abused like that of arbitrary
1:51:54grades of items reordering and blah blah blah but I'm not sure how many apps care
1:51:58about the low-level audio access that you need so maybe your be safe yeah and
1:52:03and like you know eighty player can support voice boost even like you can do
1:52:08audio effects and TV Player you guys can adjust the time scale of the audio so
1:52:12you can do any effect that that take in and out put the same number of samples
1:52:16you can do that maybe player no problem
1:52:19well it's not easy but you can do it but anything that is just the timescale
1:52:23dynamically you can't and that is what smart speed needs to do one of the
1:52:29questions in the chat let me see Cody explorer s that's why is streaming in
1:52:34such demand if you have wifi downloading an individual facilitates a 10 seconds
1:52:38when its low that's a good point you know I've gotten along this far without
1:52:43having streaming one could argue as I've asked myself many times as I keep
1:52:47failing to do it properly
1:52:49one could ask like do I do I ever need streaming and the answer is I think I
1:52:56can get away without it forever if I need to but it would be better with it
1:53:00for two or three main reasons 11 very big use case that people always ask for
1:53:06the night can satisfy is a lot of you prefer to run their clients and
1:53:10streaming only mode and the big advantage here is that you never have to
1:53:14download big chunks so many like an episode that comes in that you don't
1:53:19actually listening to you didn't download that CD that data and also it
1:53:23takes up no disk space basically you have some space for like cashing in
1:53:27artwork and database stuff like that but compared to when you're down an entire
1:53:31episode like fifty or a hundred megs that's a very little space and people so
1:53:36often who have like the 16 gig iPhone that for some reason Apple is still
1:53:39selling they can be very low on space so if you can have a motive your podcast
1:53:45app that doesn't utilize disk space that's there's a lot of people who want
1:53:48that
1:53:48secondarily no matter how fast your connection
1:53:51is if there's an episode that you want to listen to right now and it is not
1:53:54downloaded to tap it and to have to sit there and wait for the whole thing to
1:53:58download before you even start sucks even if it only sucks for five seconds
1:54:03that still sucks many and many cases it's gonna suck for longer than the
1:54:07reality is not everybody has fast wifi not everybody is on wifi not everyone
1:54:12some connection to that fast so if you can tap and start playback soon
1:54:18immediately if that is better like no question that is better forget about the
1:54:22wifi in the cell connections my I have fast all of those things it takes
1:54:27forever to download some podcasts because the hosting is slow
1:54:31that is my biggest complaint about streaming is like if I forget to
1:54:33download a podcast and I have to you know go to work
1:54:36you look at it it's like what is this doing 200 k per second forget it will
1:54:40I'm not going to sit here and wait 15 minutes and is not because of my
1:54:43connection that's because the server can't feed me the bites fast enough and
1:54:47I blame your background downloader yeah if I had to pick one time I'm not big on
1:54:52stream I like the fact that will be able to play play i I would like a hybrid
1:54:57mode where it starts playing as soon as possible but it still down but that
1:55:00featured I must get it tonight about it overcast is why isn't this downloading I
1:55:05don't know why it's downloading I know you have to like start all stop all
1:55:08thing happens sometimes I know you thought about that but the background
1:55:11download firmware everything you do
1:55:13mysterious to me there is no indication in the UI and nothing I can do about it
1:55:17to say other than sometimes pause and restart pause and restart do something
1:55:20starts happening I always want to know what are you waiting to download just
1:55:24thought I would also like to know that
1:55:26yeah unfortunately this framework do not give you that information you could sell
1:55:31it start downloading this and you know it started when you get the first bite
1:55:34right unlike a software update running in the background ahead of you in the
1:55:37queue you know taking your spot in the background cute and eight and he's in
1:55:42the changes mentioned within my third point which is you know let's say I
1:55:46wanna be a feature where you can view a share link
1:55:48natively in the abbot somebody says check out this podcast they was so funny
1:55:52at this minute and that middle is an hour into the show if you can open up at
1:55:57Lincoln overcast and start that play back at that point you have to download
1:56:00the entire file before that the whole first hour of the show you can download
1:56:04a few bites get the header information and then jump ahead with a range request
1:56:08and get like and then only download the part from your play head forward so
1:56:15that's also a very compelling case that could be very useful in the future if i
1:56:19if i do more social features and stuff like that so there there are all these
1:56:23features even right now like when a new download comes in youth notification
1:56:27right now the only thing can offer on that is a dismissed but I can't wait
1:56:32until the download it and then notify the local don't like that and the timely
1:56:35what people want most of the time they want to know when it out so I notify
1:56:39when it out it would be ideal if I could have a button on the notification that
1:56:43said play for the people who want to play and medially and again it's one
1:56:47more feature I can't do really well until they have streaming so there's
1:56:51there's a whole bunch of these like little feature alumni cities that are
1:56:54all being held up by my lack of streaming and so that's that's why I'm
1:56:59working on this
1:57:00yes I can get along forever about it but the Apple be a lot better with it and so
1:57:06that's why I'm doing it that's why it's worth all the trouble and I think I i've
1:57:10gotten pretty far with this latest attempt by I think I really onto
1:57:14something here I think this might be this might be the one guys might have
1:57:18found the one number 42 you sit you looked at a bunch of different packages
1:57:24in order to do this for you and you said that they didn't work out of curiosity
1:57:28did you create anything particularly useful for many of these different open
1:57:32source packages or was that basically wasted time I looked at some of them
1:57:36just like just like how they use some of the API is right but I don't i didnt
1:57:41even copy and paste the code out from them at different or that that
1:57:46unsuitable for my task like it was more like a general overview of like that's
1:57:50interesting like they don't use a buffer here or order using the audio file AP I
1:57:55here or there are these in this weird call here like it that it that kind like
1:58:00it is good like a look at them because they're open source stuff but
1:58:04they haven't been as useful as I would have hoped but for the most part like I
1:58:08would rather be the case honestly I would rather I to myself I can for lots
1:58:12of reasons part of it because I'm just that kind of arrogant programmer part of
1:58:16it because I want to understand what's happening is this is you know I read the
1:58:21rest of my ideal engine this is the crew is a pretty critical part of it and buy
1:58:25right amount Audioengine
1:58:27able to do so much in the app so many little custom things like one of
1:58:32Pakistan's looking at basically in order to use our have to replace most of my
1:58:37audio engine with it and I tried even just trying to integrate that just tried
1:58:42it but in like all the different things that I have to try to wedge
1:58:47even even having access to their source code just the amount of work and change
1:58:51and bug potential there was creating by trying to just match the features I have
1:58:58now using their audio engine it would it was more work to do that
1:59:03that it would have been just write my own even if it takes a year to do it if
1:59:07you considered writing it and go fast speed with the problem but it's not