The Accidental Tech Podcast

117: You Don't Have the Antibodies

 

  how's that low-level see audio codec how does your working on I'm making progress [TS]

  do you have any hair left to pull out of your head Marco know this is why I cut [TS]

  it short to make to make that possible I knew I was gonna be working on car audio [TS]

  this week so I got a fresh haircut number two on the razor nice and that [TS]

  that means it's too short to realistically grab hold of my god I'm so [TS]

  that a handful maybe he might have been a little fingers extensors any free [TS]

  follow-up stuff we need to worry about there is no pre follow-up only post [TS]

  followup and follow-up and more follow follow up maybe the show is pre follow [TS]

  at this point she just called this the axonal follow-up podcast will this [TS]

  follow-up and then the main topics are really just pre follow up for next week [TS]

  its so true so let's do our follow up so we can get to the pre follow-up now we [TS]

  should probably start with it [TS]

  talking about our discussion about how to attract or encourage women and girls [TS]

  to listen to the show and unsurprisingly we got a lot of feedback about this and [TS]

  I i appreciate and I know we appreciate all the feedback [TS]

  a lot of it was really good pretty much all of it was really interesting in it [TS]

  it certainly opened my eyes a bit on with regard to how men reacted to it how [TS]

  women react to it and and so just a few things I think we should talk about [TS]

  upfront I think first and foremost we i I would say we caught a little bit of [TS]

  flak about spending so much time talking about advertisers and Harry's [TS]

  specifically and I think that's reasonable I think the the problem with [TS]

  the way the last episode when is that because we spent so much time talking [TS]

  about talking about the advertisers it appeared as though that was the thing we [TS]

  thought was the biggest priority just by virtue of the fact we spent so much time [TS]

  on it [TS]

  in reality that's not at all what any of us think is the biggest priority the [TS]

  first thing to change its just as per usual we got wrapped around the axle on [TS]

  that topic in I don't know if any of you ever heard the show but we sometimes get [TS]

  off in the weeds and that's exactly what happened and in I think while the [TS]

  discussion I think was good I don't mean for it and I am pretty sure you guys [TS]

  don't mean for it to be representative of what we think is the right approach [TS]

  to fix this problem it just so happens we got off in the weeds I think actually [TS]

  have it back up as I can [TS]

  here's how I maybe you all have different opinions of this feedback but [TS]

  here's how I would characterize the first person I want to say that I still [TS]

  feel like I'm I'm still processing that feedback I agree I'd like an ottoman [TS]

  partly because it still coming in and probably become as I think it was like [TS]

  the most upsetting to me feedback that we've ever gotten the show and there was [TS]

  a wide wide range of responses feedback was all over the map but the title of [TS]

  the top of that map was probably like you guys are dummies I got people like [TS]

  this was skewed way negative like consensus is we are dummies and it's not [TS]

  to say that it's not useful but like sometimes we get feedback that's like [TS]

  just providing information or supportive or whatever but pretty much all this [TS]

  feedback was telling us things that we missed our area I mean some of it was I [TS]

  guess feedback from solicited feedback but it was fairly negative I do not that [TS]

  surprised me I think I was kind of dreading discussing this topic because I [TS]

  kind of figured this would be the the feedback we would get but the fact that [TS]

  I'm still processing it makes me feel like I don't I don't quite know what to [TS]

  think I'm and you i think what you highlighted is probably the only [TS]

  dominant theme that I saw in it because I guess even though it was mostly [TS]

  negative to a wide-ranging people have very different ideas about what we got [TS]

  wrong right so I was a wide range on the negative round but the one thing a lot [TS]

  of people seem to agree on your head is that [TS]

  regardless of how they felt about the ads the dad was not the core issue [TS]

  people who said you absolutely have to get rid of the ads also tends not the [TS]

  core issue people said you absolutely have to keep the ads also the added that [TS]

  the core issue right so that I feel like it's the only consensus that I could dry [TS]

  out of this so far two things one that we didn't do a very good job and to that [TS]

  the ad is a distraction regardless of how people feel about it what did you [TS]

  think of the name and I am I being too negative on the negativity Marco where [TS]

  did you get that impression as well now that was that was pretty much it i mean [TS]

  this was I mean I'm also still processing a lot of this I I would say [TS]

  just anecdotally added you guys feel the same way I would say anecdotally this is [TS]

  probably the most words we've gotten feedback on any topic it just it it has [TS]

  taken me a long time to even just reread the feedback email has been so much of [TS]

  it and and most of it has been had been very informative I mean overall you know [TS]

  there was definitely a prominent pattern to a lot of it that began with I'm a man [TS]

  but Anna giant ball of the text that showed really a pretty poor [TS]

  understanding of gender issues and technology or ever in life and that I'm [TS]

  a little saddened by that you feel like though that was like the easiest [TS]

  feedback and all yeah I ignored most of the amine it's it's depressing that you [TS]

  know we're going to get that type of thing but it's a type of bacteria and [TS]

  you like alright well so I know these people are out there I know they're [TS]

  listening they have different opinions and ideas than we do but it's easier to [TS]

  I don't know it's like it's easier to process because they in many respects [TS]

  they are who they are who we are most capable of reaching right like if we can [TS]

  reach those people that will affect change right if we can we can turn those [TS]

  people around or just even more than more towards what we think you know our [TS]

  value system that will be a success and they were sort of showing us here we are [TS]

  over here if you feel like moving us [TS]

  towards your way of thinking this is where we are so now you know what you've [TS]

  got your work cut out for you [TS]

  yeah it was surprising to me I think most of the email while negative was [TS]

  informative there were certainly a lot of Hayama dude and blah blah blah blah [TS]

  blah ok so you should really improve it but the thing that struck me was as the [TS]

  immediate Twitter replies to the ATP account were disappointing and I'm sorry [TS]

  I was certainly and remain taken aback by it because I was very surprised about [TS]

  how many replies we saw which basically made me think that we were all members [TS]

  of the he-man woman haters club which I don't remember signing up for and I [TS]

  don't remember that being a thing and that was that was a little bit [TS]

  disappointing not all of them of course but a lot of them well I mean I think [TS]

  that that is the most much more interesting feedback to me also more [TS]

  upsetting but much more interesting and because it's it's it's giving us new [TS]

  information as opposed to just saying hey there are people out there with [TS]

  regressive ideas about women in technology like eddie knew that but the [TS]

  other side of the coin is more enlightening and I i would say for the [TS]

  feedback and trying to characterize it we get more feedback from women than [TS]

  usual which is expected and this type of topic and the reason I was emphasizing [TS]

  the wider range is as I tried to emphasize on a show like women are not a [TS]

  monolith no individual woman who treats it as it writes devices is purporting to [TS]

  speak for all women they're just individuals right and that's why getting [TS]

  a lot of feedback is good because otherwise if you had to get feedback [TS]

  from three people and they all three different things you have no idea dude [TS]

  could be a feedback from 300 people then maybe you can start sort of you know [TS]

  slicing and dicing in trying to figure things out and you know soliciting [TS]

  feedback is one thing and the second thing which you know many ppl emphasize [TS]

  like you so was it the feedback and then you have to actually read it and listen [TS]

  to it right the difficulty in doing that correctly as I love my son talk about 11 [TS]

  difficulty is [TS]

  try not to be defensive trying to be like you have to answer everything try [TS]

  to be like every piece of advice is an accusation so on and so forth [TS]

  you know trying not to suffer from a Lancer syndrome all these all these bad [TS]

  instincts that are in me definitely and maybe you too as well you have to fight [TS]

  those but the second thing is with this huge range even talk about something so [TS]

  is the average of room or less agreed was not the core issue here just looking [TS]

  at the women who get feedback and the add you know you can't possibly do what [TS]

  quote unquote everyone wants because they want contradictory things some [TS]

  women said you absolutely have to keep the ad removing it would be insulting [TS]

  some women said you actually have to remove the ad its presence is insulting [TS]

  so you get their feedback and we listened to it at some point we have to [TS]

  do something and there is no course of action seems to me that a lot of the [TS]

  people writing in all caps no matter what their opinion believe the day they [TS]

  didn't seem to leave a lot of room for other possibilities of many people wrote [TS]

  in to say this is the situation you guys at dummies are not seeing it and the [TS]

  answer is obvious just do what I say but it's like but you know it's just that [TS]

  one me emails fine but like you read one email after the next after the next at [TS]

  an accident like if I do what you want then these ten people are gonna be upset [TS]

  by do what they want them is fifty people are going to you know that's [TS]

  that's that's our job our job is to solicit feedback accepted read it listen [TS]

  to a try to understand it and then decide what the right thing to do for us [TS]

  is right and that's why I feel like I'm still processing because it's difficult [TS]

  to sort of being the people pleaser mobile you're like we're trying to do [TS]

  the right thing you're right we're trying to solicit feedback if only there [TS]

  was a quote unquote answer but there is not there is lots of people's opinions [TS]

  and lots of people's answers and we have to figure out how how do we make forward [TS]

  progress on [TS]

  on you know on our goals based on this feedback and it's just it's kinda makes [TS]

  my head spin at this point I think one one thing I think that we can all agree [TS]

  on besides cheese thing is that we got a lot of feedback because we asked for it [TS]

  and and that's exactly what we wanted we were asking the question to our audience [TS]

  especially to the women in our audience what can we do to help address this [TS]

  massive gender imbalance that our audience and you know it in tech [TS]

  podcasting Anandtech as a whole this is a big problem and I i you know i i don't [TS]

  pretend to be an expert on this I'm far from it I do however want to improve it [TS]

  and as as a guy who is a smart ass and has always been a smartass I've always [TS]

  had the problem of I rush right to thinking I have an answer to something [TS]

  and as we saw in the email and as many women see every single day that's a very [TS]

  common thing in this business and it's a very common thing among men in general [TS]

  the you know the the attitude that we could have an immediate answer for [TS]

  everything and we know everything about everything and we can quickly explain [TS]

  away ever anything any problem and one of the things that I think everyone [TS]

  would agree on which there isn't much in in this argument that everyone will [TS]

  agree on it but I think everyone was on the right side of this can probably [TS]

  agree that especially we men need to be listening more to be asking and [TS]

  listening more we just need to be listening to what women are actually [TS]

  telling us and it was very valuable to see even though a lot of it was [TS]

  contradictory from women about what we should or shouldn't do the fact is we [TS]

  asked we are listening and we're going to continue to ask him listen and to all [TS]

  the men out there who responded in that matter of fact way this is going to be [TS]

  hard for you to change in your in your life it's certainly hard for us but you [TS]

  have to be open to the idea that the first step when this question is asked [TS]

  is to listen to what women are telling you listen to what they have to say to [TS]

  ask them [TS]

  listening to care not just to jump to thinking you know the answer because [TS]

  really is that is such a big problem for so many people and it is really this is [TS]

  this is really primarily a problem with men that do this like the fact is the [TS]

  world is not a perfectly balanced a place for everything is equal it's far [TS]

  from it and that's the whole problem we're trying to address it is ok to [TS]

  recognize that even even if you think you're being good and even if you think [TS]

  that you are helping there are gonna be things in johnnie time there's gonna be [TS]

  things that you subconsciously do or that you just do because you've always [TS]

  done them and that's just the way you think that you think are normal in [TS]

  neutral but they're not and so it's really is of utmost importance that men [TS]

  in particular don't just jump to think you know the answers here that you know [TS]

  really sit back and listen there's a lot that that we need to hear that's what I [TS]

  talked about on the game gate episode one of the suggestions I made to the [TS]

  audience of people who may have been sort of sympathizing with a gamer gate [TS]

  and I'm just trying to look for something that I could suggest that [TS]

  would be like actionable and that I felt like would make real change based on [TS]

  what has worked for me and I was suggesting like Twitter account size [TS]

  it's suggested that a bunch of people Twitter accounts like the everyday [TS]

  sexism Twitter accounts a problem sure I suggested briana was the Twitter account [TS]

  like just follow these to put our council was my suggestion but then don't [TS]

  ever reply to them just like the tweets are going to make you angry sometimes [TS]

  you're gonna disagree with a lot of fun the whole idea is like a one-year plan [TS]

  of like subscribe and read the tweets economic don't get crazy but I'm just [TS]

  haven't in the mix it and I'm doing this in terms of what we could do anything [TS]

  blog posts you know who you [TS]

  his facebook post you read what sites are either whatever just read them even [TS]

  if the entire year you absolutely hundred percent disagree with every [TS]

  single thing that you read because I feel like most of that like sort of just [TS]

  being in contact with those ideas will slowly affect your worldview because [TS]

  it's essentially force listen I cannot realistically maybe reading them like [TS]

  hey treating them like a look at these dummies I disagree with everything they [TS]

  so dumb that I know anything about anything right if you just keep reading [TS]

  them like an everyday sexism on it is a great example it's like you just read [TS]

  day after day after day of like minor things that happen to people situations [TS]

  they ran I feel like it will eventually get through to you like this is not made [TS]

  up stuff and I like it because I think the volume is important right and so we [TS]

  are subjecting ourselves to this essentially voluntarily to try it you [TS]

  know you know bring us bring out the feedback [TS]

  tell us what you think give us your ideas and we just kind of have to soak [TS]

  in it like you know it's like buying you know we're soaking it in some degree but [TS]

  like actually inviting it'd be kind of getting a big dose of it dumped on her [TS]

  head and that's part of the process of course this is a podcast and follow up [TS]

  and of course we do have responses to things so kind of violating our rules [TS]

  here but that the reason I suggest that all that stuff like that I feel like I [TS]

  got into like just gamer game was a big part but even before that reading like [TS]

  every single post about these things reading people following new people [TS]

  looking at their tumblers following them on Twitter just just reading everything [TS]

  mostly not responding to a mostly not engaging with people on Twitter mostly [TS]

  but just like reading it and gave a gate was like the peak was just like every [TS]

  day like seventeen new things to read write and then following the links on [TS]

  the threads following the different people to you know where they come from [TS]

  where what's their background what have they written before what have they done [TS]

  you know like that kind of sort of it's not so they can be in research or [TS]

  whatever on the topic is I thought that in most influential in my life and [TS]

  changing my cell phone [TS]

  on these topics and feedback is is part of that and now that I've said all those [TS]

  things to try to be differentially everything I have to go and ruin it by [TS]

  responding to what I think was the the harshest criticism we got because I [TS]

  think the one thing he doesn't like this was the most common but I look back over [TS]

  to the most negative event of the spectrum above the feedback we got its [TS]

  not believe it or not from the people who have progressive ideas about women [TS]

  in tech their feedback but tended not to be harsh tended to be condescending and [TS]

  patronizing but like that's the most harsh ones in the one that felt the [TS]

  worst feedback from women who did the gist of this feedback was on the topic [TS]

  of changing the host lineup and changing the format of the show saying [TS]

  essentially if you don't do one of those two things then it shows you don't care [TS]

  about women at all and this is all BS front and that's the harshest version of [TS]

  that just like you know saying these two things are are the test you if you don't [TS]

  if you refuse to do things as we SAT and talked about last night we didn't want [TS]

  to change the hostname the show with internal injuries show we basically [TS]

  ruled those out and I feel like people hearing that people hearing I say we [TS]

  read through this big list of suggestions that people suggested to us [TS]

  and then we ruled out those two right off the bat and it just feels like every [TS]

  other encounter women have had in technology where it's like the people in [TS]

  the position of power [TS]

  hear their concerns and immediately dismiss that sounds like slamming the [TS]

  door in their face and I understand why people are angry about that understand [TS]

  why why we got that the people are feeling the way they did why they felt [TS]

  compelled to go to the feedback form and and write those things in but I you know [TS]

  the I responded to some of these people and what I said all the responses of a [TS]

  similar as I said on the show that would that would absolutely make the show more [TS]

  appealing [TS]

  you know given granted like this is feedback we received I agree with them [TS]

  I'm where I disagree is by us not doing those two specific things and only those [TS]

  two specific things change the host lineup during the show changes show [TS]

  format to be an interview show that somehow there's nothing else we can do [TS]

  to make this show more appealing to women to get more women listless I [TS]

  totally disagree with that i think there are a ton of things we could do to find [TS]

  more you know to make the show more inclusive to find attract more women to [TS]

  the show is just a tremendous amount we read a whole bunch of tons of people [TS]

  send us feedback with the with ideas [TS]

  only two things we ruled out for changing the host lineup and changing [TS]

  the formula Jeremy individual everything else including the harry said I might [TS]

  point out on the table right and so that feedback like like it because it shows [TS]

  that those people but they came away with was that we were that we were [TS]

  dismissing them that we were just doing exactly what has been done to them in [TS]

  the entire technology industry for their entire life which is just like this [TS]

  population they listen to is going to address my concerns from home and are [TS]

  slanted face right that we experience they got out of the show which is [TS]

  terrible and not our intention obviously we did a bad job but I still have to say [TS]

  that like I feel like our show can exist in its current form and be better than [TS]

  it is that we can then we can make positive progress towards our goal of [TS]

  inclusiveness and maybe that's not enough progress maybe we can make more [TS]

  progress by changing the show on those ways but I feel like it's like that the [TS]

  show has value and can be better in its current form I don't that like it a lot [TS]

  of the worst again made it sound as if you like maybe feel like that our show [TS]

  just should not exist like that it is an affront to the cause and that the world [TS]

  does not need another three dudes tech podcast and the best thing we could do [TS]

  is just change it in a fundamental way so it's a different show and if we don't [TS]

  do that it shows you really don't care and you were just we don't do anything [TS]

  they will they will return by happy little home in any way and I feel like [TS]

  that is a mischaracterization and we were totally willing to do anything [TS]

  within the bounds of the current show again provided you know granting [TS]

  entirely that it would be make the show more attractive to women if we [TS]

  those things but we want to have our show that the three of us this is our [TS]

  show I feel like I you know it's a valid thing to do to have the show the three [TS]

  of us I don't know I don't know how else do you characterize that without without [TS]

  just sort of reinforcing everything I think it's basically like oh you just [TS]

  want to have your show and that's that I do have the show with the three of us [TS]

  and I do I feel like that show can be better and I feel like some positive [TS]

  progress and make me feel better is if it's positive right is it as positive as [TS]

  it could be if we you know and i dont wanna go into these damn that's why [TS]

  should I still getting more defensive by the moment but if you go into the you [TS]

  know I stopped myself here but what do you guys have to think about this topic [TS]

  yeah i of all the feedback we got a lot of it hurt in the sense that it made me [TS]

  very angry because I was disappointed in in the very chauvinistic things that I [TS]

  saw but the stuff that actually hurt to end cut the deepest was when a woman [TS]

  would write in and say like you said John basically if you don't [TS]

  fundamentally change the show is then you're just a bunch of liars and well [TS]

  just like you said John that absolutely would be the number one best way to put [TS]

  our money where our mouth is that is I don't think it's unreasonable for us to [TS]

  take that off the table and I even though the show isn't so many ways about [TS]

  binary the show itself is not binary and there is a lot of in the middle that we [TS]

  can do to improve ourselves and to improve the way we handle the show and [TS]

  just generally make things more inclusive without changing the three of [TS]

  us in and I should point out that we got a fair bit of women that road in that [TS]

  said I understand why someone would ask you to change the lineup but don't do [TS]

  that because the reason I listen says several women that road in the reason I [TS]

  listen is because of the three of you and because of the chemistry you happen [TS]

  because of the way you beat each other up over white cars and fish and so on [TS]

  and so forth [TS]

  and if you change that lineup it could ruin everything in so if this is the [TS]

  most hurt I've gotten I'm still coming from a place of indescribable privilege [TS]

  and I recognize that but it was it was really really bummed me out because I [TS]

  feel like I wanna work together the three of us and the three of us in in [TS]

  the women that listen and then the men that was then and i just want to work [TS]

  together to make this a more inclusive happy place and it I feel like just like [TS]

  you said John there is somewhere in the middle between doing nothing in [TS]

  completely eviscerating lineup as it is as an existing go even farther because [TS]

  like [TS]

  from my perspective like as I said do you know that women are underrepresented [TS]

  in tech podcasts and the like we should be linked to rock out last week we [TS]

  should have more Lincoln the shouts of other podcast tech podcast that are very [TS]

  similar DDP but have women on the list but the vector podcast Georgia now I'm [TS]

  or the time our podcast with a friend and ally and then rocketed like the fact [TS]

  that I can't name more than a handful these on top ad shows you there's not a [TS]

  lot of them but they are out there and so women looking to hear their women's [TS]

  voices on the topic of TAC you know there are options and I think there [TS]

  should be more of them you know should our show be one of them like our show is [TS]

  our show is that the three of us right but from my perspective i think is very [TS]

  possible that we can do maybe not more good but a tremendous amount of good by [TS]

  talking to are you know making a show more inclusive so it doesn't feel like [TS]

  that if your woman listening to you somehow shouldn't be this is the place [TS]

  for you right so that a lot of things like what can we do to change tons of [TS]

  things like what can we stop doing that is bad what can we do that is that is [TS]

  propelling women right can we talk about a certain number of things he tweaked [TS]

  out of the huge range of things we could talk about by picking different things [TS]

  and talk about you can we change the show and most importantly I feel like [TS]

  even if we are completely unsuccessful in her to get more women and girls [TS]

  listen to the show by talking to the men who listen to the show [TS]

  that is probably realistically speaking our best avenue for positive change [TS]

  because if we could snap my fingers and convince all the men on the show to you [TS]

  know get on board with our way of thinking about this as ours even maybe [TS]

  but just like to move them along the continuum that would be a tremendous [TS]

  benefit and that's one of the pieces feedback i've heard from a lot of people [TS]

  especially people deeply entrenched in this issue is that if you can check it's [TS]

  the men's behavior that needs to change right so you we're all about like it can [TS]

  make the show more inclusive can make sure we're not doing anything to repel [TS]

  women we had to get through to the men to say to you in a nice way we can tell [TS]

  I go you guys are all bad people you shouldn't listen like that is not it [TS]

  that is not did all we want to be able to like bring bring people along with [TS]

  the ideas that we have and even if we're only just talking to men that that is a [TS]

  huge way that we can we can make a positive change in this area you know so [TS]

  I just I feel like the three of us if if we change the show while keeping the [TS]

  format and while keeping the three of us there I still feel like we can do a [TS]

  massive massive gonna be just figure out how to do a better idea that we also got [TS]

  a lot of feedback that that was suggesting what would make the show more [TS]

  appealing to women but like but yeah that's how to people presented it but in [TS]

  reality it's not about like it would make the show it more attractive to [TS]

  anybody of any gender it had nothing to do with women so you know things like [TS]

  just making it easier for new listeners to go into the show so you know not [TS]

  spending the entire show on follow-up not being too much inside jokes like [TS]

  stuff like that nobody said don't text into the other topic nice job you did [TS]

  you think that's a great idea I don't know you know there are things about our [TS]

  show format and that we can definitely improve on things that will make it [TS]

  easier for any new listeners to come in and to end to stick with us and that's [TS]

  like a lot of people from those things as here's why women don't like your show [TS]

  which is complete BS over its at least not the whole story [TS]

  it's like here's why a new listener might not stick around [TS]

  that's the real story and so there are things there that we need to end should [TS]

  improve to get more women listening mostly because that's how we get more [TS]

  people this is like it has nothing to do with women [TS]

  well I mean like like like I said in the past show you can like some of them were [TS]

  you know like they said this but as I said last time we talked about politics [TS]

  who have much broader broader appeal than ever talk about program and a lot [TS]

  of people we've always got complaints we going to the Super programming stuff but [TS]

  bottom line is that's one of the things that we want to talk about 35 [TS]

  programmers on a podcast we're going to talk about programming some people love [TS]

  the programming some people hate it that's not that's more of just a narrow [TS]

  vs broad issue does not specifically gender issue but but a lot of you a lot [TS]

  of people say like I'm not super into programming so whenever you talk about [TS]

  programming I tuned out and we didn't get much feedback the life of the [TS]

  program like there is a ceiling on on our appeal we you know if we did a show [TS]

  about politics it would have way broader appeal and like but that's not the show [TS]

  we're doing so in in in many ways like it's the same type of thing I also you [TS]

  want you want to broaden your gonna get more women to listen will change what [TS]

  you talked about like yes ok change we talked about in what way well I would [TS]

  love it if you didn't talk about programming anymore [TS]

  well you know there are lots of women remember to listen to like we talked [TS]

  about programs like we're doing a program like I would love to talk about [TS]

  Apple may be more people would listen if we didn't talk about what we talked [TS]

  about something with you know with much broader appeal that's that's something [TS]

  we have to deal with like we're always going to say well you know within the [TS]

  confines of all you want to broaden his appeal show but you don't want to change [TS]

  your show we do want to change it within the confines of the topic area right and [TS]

  the three of us and everything and that's like so many people that is [TS]

  basically sort of like you don't really want to change you say you want to [TS]

  change you say you wanted to make the show more includes you say you want to [TS]

  make it more appealing but you don't want to actually change anything about [TS]

  the show and I and I reiterate again I think there are just so many things we [TS]

  could change within this format to do better just a tremendous amount of [TS]

  things we can change that we will hopefully be working on moving forward [TS]

  that can make this show more inclusive [TS]

  and and you know and and change people's hearts and minds who do listen to the [TS]

  show men or women undermine whatever you know and i know i just i just feel I [TS]

  feel somewhat defeated by this entire topic and I think we should probably put [TS]

  a fork in it for today in a couple of quick thoughts first of all if you are [TS]

  listening to this and don't care for it I'm sorry to hear that please do not [TS]

  bother writing in to tell us that you don't care for it because this is going [TS]

  to continue to happen and you can either carry on with the show or not but this [TS]

  is something that's very important to the three of us and it's we're going to [TS]

  keep talking about it and that's just the way it is and it's absolutely on [TS]

  topic this is major is a major problem in the tech industry it is definitely [TS]

  relevant for tech podcast to talk about this issue and the other thing I'm [TS]

  seeing a lot of angst in the chat room right now that we're doing a lot of [TS]

  navel-gazing and talking about the show and talking about oh what could we do [TS]

  what could we do but not doing anything too quick thoughts on that first of all [TS]

  i think is talking about this is doing something I mean would you rather us not [TS]

  to talk about this I don't think that's really a solution and secondly outside [TS]

  of the show in private conversations between the three of us we are [TS]

  absolutely disgusting pretty much anything that we've gotten in email we [TS]

  are discussing and considering pretty much everything even things we probably [TS]

  don't want to do or may not do are on the table in private conversations [TS]

  between the three of us I ask only that you bear with us and give us a chance to [TS]

  get our heads around everything give us a chance to put things together and [TS]

  watch the space I know it's probably not happening as quick as it should [TS]

  it's probably not happening as quick as it could but we are working on it and in [TS]

  we are trying as hard as we can and and and expect us to screw up like a expect [TS]

  us to do badly again you know I mean like it's not don't don't expect [TS]

  miracles right and we will never go as far as some people want to go people [TS]

  will always be disappointed [TS]

  like people will be disappointed that the show exists at all [TS]

  clear from the feedback sometimes right but you know some people like it it's [TS]

  like I just feel like you know the one of the trap that mental and when they [TS]

  get into this topic is like I'm gonna I'm gonna do good here I am going to [TS]

  champion the rights of whatever you know oppressed people that I am getting down [TS]

  this caused by the block and then they get told that what they're doing is [TS]

  wrong and they're like but but I was trying to help [TS]

  well forget you guys now I'm not even gonna help anymore and it's like that's [TS]

  exactly you just have to think we're trying mightily to avoid that like its [TS]

  you have to understand that everyone is not going to agree with you [TS]

  everyone is not going to like you and the closer you get to trying to make [TS]

  some kind of progress the more anger people bTW you didn't go far enough and [TS]

  that is that is a positive force I feel like pushing us in the right direction [TS]

  that the wrong direction trying to get that as as a wind behind this as ever as [TS]

  we become ever more disappointing to the people who are really invested in this [TS]

  cause I'm hoping you were actually moving more towards like we're making [TS]

  positive progress in that direction right now we're not going down that way [TS]

  that we don't get repelled by that to be down there we don't start to resent the [TS]

  idea that boo people said mean things to us who are quote unquote on our side I [TS]

  wanted to be a wind at our back rather than something to tearing us from [TS]

  pursuing us so Plex yeah I'd spoke last week about how the Synology Synology [TS]

  specifically I think I cited the ds2 14 play as having the proper hardware to [TS]

  transcode [TS]

  video and do so quickly which makes it really great fourplex a handful of [TS]

  people very gently pointed out to me that I am full of crap and that he 214 [TS]

  does indeed have the right hardware however Plex does not have access to it [TS]

  because of whatever is going on within the Synology I don't know the technical [TS]

  details but suffice to say I'm full of crap so what I have found her I think a [TS]

  listener listener to actually pointed out to me is a list of all the different [TS]

  network attached storage devices that blacks will run on and it will end it [TS]

  shows exactly what these devices can and cannot transcode in a reasonably [TS]

  performance way so we will put that in the show notes I apologize if you took [TS]

  any action on my BS recommendation I did not realize that I was dead wrong but [TS]

  hopefully have caught you before you spend any money I do love my psychology [TS]

  I do not have a 214 anymore I have one that is not at all well suited for [TS]

  transcoding in so I do recommends analogies in general but I cannot [TS]

  recommend the 214 that I previously recommended because as it turns out they [TS]

  are a terrible idea for blacks so check out that list and and buy one that [TS]

  actually works to do the things I thought the 214 would have high hopes [TS]

  that hardware transcoding but but I don't use Plaxo what I found was that [TS]

  when the hardware transcoding with useful it was good but if you are [TS]

  downloading more exotic weird formats are you have no idea what the hell [TS]

  formats you are downloading legally of course very often the hardware [TS]

  transcoding can't handle it and there's one thing but software Transcona may be [TS]

  slower but it is it can do a much broader range of things so I find myself [TS]

  wishing that rather than hardware decoding I really had faster faster CPU [TS]

  to do software decoding software transcoding alright what is going on [TS]

  with iPhoto and Time Machine I think this is right after last week's show we [TS]

  got this feedback and direct link to an Apple support article saying whatever [TS]

  happened to the thing that I imagine that time machine integration apparently [TS]

  I did not imagine and although this thing doesn't have screenshots as of [TS]

  iPhoto 11 which was version 9.2 obviously and I was 10 lion 10720 or [TS]

  later [TS]

  that's when I thought I lost the ability to browse backups as they caught a [TS]

  political this means that instead of restoring specific photos within your [TS]

  iPhoto library you must restore your entire iPhoto library so I forget when [TS]

  iPhoto 11 was I'm assuming 2011 but that's when this feature run away and [TS]

  there is no more integration and I assume this is a feature that was never [TS]

  public for like their party out there was something only I photo could do it [TS]

  was written by Apple and it has fallen by the wayside said or maybe it's a good [TS]

  thing on our first bunch of this week is cards against humanity and as usual they [TS]

  have sent John a toaster to review in lieu of a sponsor read here so John what [TS]

  is the toaster the crowd against humanity sent you to review this week [TS]

  this week we've got the Cuisinart Custom Classic toaster oven broiler which I [TS]

  guess is a sensible name in his model number key capitulo capital be hyphen 40 [TS]

  another model number with both in 20 in it boggles my mind and how they keep [TS]

  anything straight this is about the same size as my level 60 lol whatever model [TS]

  numbers that I was forget it is a legit 4 slice toaster oven it's got four [TS]

  unshielded resistive heating elements inside it has a very straightforward you [TS]

  I this is the first poster that I did not ever need to look at the [TS]

  instructions for which is saying something shouldn't be but it is that's [TS]

  really sick three knobs on the day you look at the instructions like figure out [TS]

  this new on some missing operate the any toaster but unlike ok but then what [TS]

  about you know there's some new ones here that I'm probably missing any to [TS]

  look at the menu this one is just had three knobs 14 function like toast broil [TS]

  bake in preheated whatever 14 temperature that goes from you know that [TS]

  normal range of toaster oven temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit and [TS]

  14 toast shade and associated one you said to like a big range you said it [TS]

  what you want and then there is a start-stop button so if you find the [TS]

  correct setting for your toast every morning you don't have to adjust that [TS]

  you just press the button it does it repeals that's all there is no time at [TS]

  all which I didn't notice until a little later like you know what there's no way [TS]

  for me to set this thing for a 10-15 with no time at all which is a very [TS]

  interesting simplification almost a polite moved like it's very difficult to [TS]

  incorporate all those things together and have all the desirable features of [TS]

  not having to figure out what's the setting is the diet going to something [TS]

  did you like the Breville you have you know here display LCD display or making [TS]

  things complicated there's just no time at all this or if there is I didn't find [TS]

  much because there was read the manual but I'm pretty sure that no timer just a [TS]

  start stop on how does that make it harder to use the other new features [TS]

  obviously with the toaster you don't really need a timer you start the [TS]

  darkness not but it does have but does the lack of a timer make the other in [TS]

  future less useful to you it depends like you should know that it doesn't [TS]

  have a timeline that something you rely on I find that with with any future [TS]

  except for toasting existing toaster oven I don't tend to use the time I just [TS]

  kinda like put it in if anything it kind of annoys me at the time was to locate [TS]

  reading something and then the time was like six minutes and I'll actually I [TS]

  want to just I just turn the nominees to just 30 60 minutes I'm never gonna take [TS]

  it out when I feel like it's done I'm not gonna forget about it right but if [TS]

  you wanna time rather than up to interview the knob themselves really [TS]

  good at Nob Hill actually it's fairly average not feel compared to the knob [TS]

  feel on these other posters it is phenomenal right and about if you don't [TS]

  know what the Nob Hill YouTube channel conditions should check it out it's just [TS]

  that's the thing that really you never heard of the novel YouTube account are [TS]

  you honestly surprised that we have never heard of that yes because it's [TS]

  like a meanness I it's not like an obscure you know it's supposed to be [TS]

  funny like the guy who just filmed himself killing with knobs and I think [TS]

  he made it terrible mistake at the beginning like the format is he found [TS]

  his hand filling with knobs and then he doesn't see any word he makes noises [TS]

  like runs like [TS]

  like that's that's it and he has been really confined himself by not having [TS]

  words like this [TS]

  tons of these videos only incorporated words it would be a much richer [TS]

  experience anyway [TS]

  mood and I feel expensive and like the best comparison is my Breville toaster [TS]

  like the worst feeling I've ever felt on a plant in my life I understand why [TS]

  that's all I do because they're made of plastic and their friends that you know [TS]

  but like why wasn't this done more money anyway great number one problem with [TS]

  these knobs though you can't tell where the knobs are pointing because like that [TS]

  they're not something I'm at black plastic around them with riches and one [TS]

  reaches ever so slightly taller than all the other ridges and you can tell by [TS]

  feel where that ridge's by looking at it forget it like and there's no markings [TS]

  on the front of the knob like little red triangle or something so figuring out [TS]

  where the knobs are pointing like what what function is this set to what [TS]

  temperatures is set to you basically have to feel on the thing especially if [TS]

  you're toasters and slightly darker undercounter type area they really great [TS]

  now feel not great and it's got a tray and it's kind of like you shaped like [TS]

  dip down which seems weird to me but then I realize what they want to do and [TS]

  actually confirm this by looking at the little pictures inside of the boxes you [TS]

  can this two different sets of slots you can slide the train to but then with any [TS]

  slight you can flip the trail over to do plus or minus like an inch because of [TS]

  the dip in the thing it's hard to explain what about a picture in the show [TS]

  but anyway [TS]

  essentially four different positions you can put the thing in just 22 slot then [TS]

  each slide you can put into different positions that seems like an interesting [TS]

  idea to give more flexibility of different positions but overall I think [TS]

  it's worth it because like things get caught on the little U-shaped thing you [TS]

  try to slide you to tell us that if you have four slices in there so clever idea [TS]

  but in the end I would say that this does everything that tries to pull the [TS]

  trailer and open and close the door but because you can reposition the trade [TS]

  they can't make a single mechanism to do that they have to put kind of like metal [TS]

  hook that catches the the trade in both positions of things really high really [TS]

  low catch a different areas like it's a difficult problem that's all they [TS]

  understand if you want to make a movie portray how do you connect something to [TS]

  it so comes out [TS]

  but again like technically kinda works but if you ever have to you move the [TS]

  train manually when you close the door again the little hooks to re-engage in [TS]

  the tray up while we're talking about a minute slower than my toaster toaster [TS]

  piece of bread but it all the way as it is very comfortable to my toaster just a [TS]

  bit and then click here but that are not feel so that was kinda long I'm sorry [TS]

  but this is actually a very interesting better not feel but worse overall knobs [TS]

  because of the difficulty in detecting yes yes [TS]

  whereas worse overall not right he totally because you can't tell where the [TS]

  pointing to determine so in summary this is better or worse than the trouble was [TS]

  worse than the Breville has like digital timers and like it you know it's just [TS]

  way better today [TS]

  adjustments for a number of slices and and auto adjust the time based on the [TS]

  temperature inside the Breville the better toast their functionally this [TS]

  just has an interesting aspect and it is very similar to the Breville in terms of [TS]

  size and even appearance [TS]

  do you think this is a good value for 80 bucks it sounds like you're saying yes [TS]

  yeah I mean it's a little slow like a minute slower to toast that's that's in [TS]

  the borderline of like a light i feel like im still probably take the Black [TS]

  and Decker 39 over this because that's my big hang out with my personal thing I [TS]

  feel I don't wanna wait that long for toast to the four men arranged for [TS]

  people to know you know I would still probably take the smaller more [TS]

  conventional also three now by the way [TS]

  Black and Decker over this thing it's just kind of a dead ringer for the [TS]

  Breville but like I can see where that extra you know whatever dollars went [TS]

  remind thank you very much too cards against humanity for sponsoring our show [TS]

  once again alright we got some pretty good feedback from kitty Johnny Mathis [TS]

  yeah this is on the topic of watches replacing phones I think we have another [TS]

  piece of feedback about this as well [TS]

  heard there was one of the features that the phone has the phone as the watch has [TS]

  the don't necessarily seem to be watch related specifically all the little you [TS]

  know things about [TS]

  out sending pictures to be born in the 3d emoji and all the different fitness [TS]

  app typings obviously need to have an accelerometer and their whatever but the [TS]

  phone has an accelerometer the phone has a screen phone has all these things why [TS]

  are they on the watch now and that aspect this is true of a lot of Apple [TS]

  products whatever the new glory product is seems to get a lot of the cool [TS]

  features forest in a trickle down this happened along time with like hey I was [TS]

  got some cool features that eventually came to the Mac in the reverse direction [TS]

  of your guns there I don't know if those things lever come to the phone right now [TS]

  there's nothing stopping you from being alone including all the fitness tracking [TS]

  stuff because he owns got an accelerometer and everything to you [TS]

  can't do that obviously the blood pressure pulse stuff but everything else [TS]

  could happen on the phone it will be a shame if all the advanced features [TS]

  happens on the watch instead of the phone but I was trying to understand it [TS]

  and then the second one is like things like watch faces with the complications [TS]

  on them everything [TS]

  the IRS home screen as a bazillion people like that many many times [TS]

  including many Android fans the iOS home screen could be a lot cooler if it [TS]

  supported essentially complications otherwise known as widgets are you know [TS]

  any kind of customization so you can make your lock screen or your homescreen [TS]

  more customizable and you can call has been moving slightly in that direction [TS]

  let you know the Notification Center and the ability to adjust their and stuff [TS]

  but in the end the home screens you know springboard to soldiers have been great [TS]

  of icons with some clumsy faltering thrown in and I i think i would you know [TS]

  if I get up complications [TS]

  you know in scarecrows on the screen I think that would be a plus but we'll see [TS]

  if that ever comes back to the Mac back to the iPhone this case and part of the [TS]

  reason why I think we don't have you know we have complications in the [TS]

  watches we don't complications on your lockscreen your phone I think part of [TS]

  the reason why is just another show you know it first of all you do have the [TS]

  today view which is which I personally don't use they don't use debut and I [TS]

  would definitely use lockscreen complications long before I used a few [TS]

  stuff but keep in mind so not only do they have like an existing thing that [TS]

  kind of does that [TS]

  because I always been around for so long and is so powerful within the company [TS]

  even though it is not like the glory products you know that the watches right [TS]

  now there's there's inertia with like managerial decisions they're so [TS]

  somewhere in Apple probably pretty high up there some manager VP holding tight [TS]

  to the idea that there should not be widget on an iPhone home screen as far [TS]

  as you know I mean maybe I will change this who knows but I doubt it so [TS]

  somewhere there somebody who decided that a long time ago and is sticking [TS]

  with that decision is not letting a change it and like any anything that's [TS]

  been around for a while gonna have used many people like there's been a lot of [TS]

  discussion this week about the Mac App Store because there is there is an app [TS]

  called review redacted redacted [TS]

  that hit number one and made very little money being number one and even though [TS]

  it's not quite number one it's not quite anyway doesn't matter a lot of [TS]

  discussion about the Mac App Store and how much sucks personally I think the [TS]

  Mac App Store situation can be blamed on one major thing that's a boxing you know [TS]

  the ABS a preview 30% cut black upgrade pressing all those things hurt but none [TS]

  of them hurt as much as sandboxing today in my opinion I think sandboxing on the [TS]

  Mac has been a massive loss of a massive net loss overall and that and it has [TS]

  cost the Mac App Store a lot of a lot of good apps and a lot of developers will [TS]

  but somewhere and Apple there's clearly somebody who has power who is keeping [TS]

  sandboxing there and keeping sandboxing a requirement to be in the Mac App Store [TS]

  and so even though it looks like it might not be the best idea for the [TS]

  product just the fact is when you have a big company you have people you have [TS]

  power you have power struggle sometimes you have debates internally there's this [TS]

  other factors that keep things the way they are even if it's not ideal so in [TS]

  this case the watch comes up in the water is kind of a clean slate I mean [TS]

  you know it seems to run some some variant of iOS but it is basically a [TS]

  clean slate in like the things that offer the things it doesn't the UI it [TS]

  offers where things are allowed where things aren't allowed and so it was able [TS]

  to do things that [TS]

  we might not see for a while and iOS sidetrack on this thing but in the [TS]

  sandbox think the guy who thinks that I think I mostly agree with that [TS]

  like I think sandboxing is a positive direction for the back to go but the [TS]

  execution of that of the implementation of that policy [TS]

  left a lot to be desired having to become mandatory before his full [TS]

  featured right [TS]

  having having their be so few ways for apps 22 you know like to do things [TS]

  outside of San boxing on a case-by-case basis with exceptions like just ideal [TS]

  gifts and even if sandbox and get sprung into existence in its current state [TS]

  immediately like nothing you can do that because you know you need to be [TS]

  developed to some degree but like the capabilities that were possible in [TS]

  sandbox and early on but just so limited and so broken so weird in so buggy to [TS]

  mandate people going to that was just that was getting off on the wrong foot I [TS]

  think you do have to bring them back towards a sandbox intake environment but [TS]

  the way to get there is like not the way they've done it so I feel like that as [TS]

  more of a and execution fumble than a theoretical and I do think there will [TS]

  always be things that are outside the sandbox and should be allowed to be on [TS]

  the Mac App Store with caveat but some kind of warning blah blah blah but like [TS]

  moving in a direction is good maybe it's similar with all the other decisions [TS]

  that like you may agree with the end state to go but you don't agree that the [TS]

  way that plans to get there is going to be successful or has been beneficial [TS]

  basically how I feel like sandboxing in theory is a huge security improvement [TS]

  and and I i would like to be in the place where everything is sandbox [TS]

  properly but I agree that the way it's been done has been pretty miserable and [TS]

  and the result the reality is you have this system that is you know opt-in by a [TS]

  very small number of apps it's not preventing Mac malware it's not [TS]

  preventing major abstract is going around the App Store insan themselves [TS]

  elsewhere there's still tons of [TS]

  other software that is made and run every day that's not sandbox including a [TS]

  lot of Apple's software because they're not sandbox or sandbox technically but [TS]

  is given like these blanket permission to do anything at once not really send [TS]

  so they're like in theory it's a great idea if everything was system can be [TS]

  properly sandboxed in practice how to get there and what they've done so far [TS]

  has been miserable the best thing for sandboxing like the best used to [TS]

  sandboxing and Apple is doing this as well as for Apple to stand by that stuff [TS]

  and it has been its been sandboxing tons of its daemon processes parts of the OS [TS]

  like sandbagging has to exist [TS]

  Apple should be the primary user of it they should be applying it pretty [TS]

  strictly to all parts of the OS they possibly can to have the police [TS]

  privileges at least access to and during that process [TS]

  apply it to their GUI applying it to you know they should be dog from this like [TS]

  crazy they should be reined it out for everything and then offering it to [TS]

  developers as this is a way for you to write your apt in a way that you don't [TS]

  have to worry about somebody hosing the entire person's computer like so it is a [TS]

  benefit not as like you have to do this because we say so and if your app [TS]

  doesn't work because of it oh well you get an exception at that time attacking [TS]

  time bomb that's gonna run out in about a year so stop selling crap or make a [TS]

  new act like it was just it was just done so badly and I feel like the [TS]

  technology had to be developed Apple should be using it all app developers [TS]

  can use it should be using it but it should not be that should have been [TS]

  awarding the Mac App Store in the way that is pushing out good apps entirely [TS]

  out of the store making people discouraged tonight even want develop a [TS]

  Mac out because I know [TS]

  to the matter my idea anymore anyway so I don't even bother just been not great [TS]

  yeah it seems to me that a lot of times Apple is do as I say not as I do and I [TS]

  think sandboxing is a great example of that and it's unfortunate because I [TS]

  think a lot of the pain that developers feel Apple either fields and says I will [TS]

  just not deal with that you know all this and boxing you I we can't do we [TS]

  want sandbox and most group [TS]

  we don't need to bother or you know there are some kinds like with with [TS]

  cloud kit where it's embraced its cloud Kingdom think you're right that that [TS]

  photos runs on you ok so the club kid gets embraced in from everything I've [TS]

  heard loud kids actually really solid because Apple dog food it's so it's [TS]

  unfortunate to me that that more of that doesn't happen or maybe if it is [TS]

  happening but nobody knows it because we're left to assume it's not happening [TS]

  and blame that as one of the big issues with say sandboxing but but maybe it is [TS]

  happening we're just not aware of it and I mean to me like that the Mac App Store [TS]

  as a whole to me and i dont have never had an appt for sale the Mac App Store [TS]

  so I haven't seen that side of it but just from reading with our friends say [TS]

  who do who are in it and some from using it as a user it just it seems like the [TS]

  Mac App Store is like Apple at its worst like all of Apple's I like the worst [TS]

  things they do they do most of those things in the Mac App Store and also [TS]

  there's very little up site so lucky [TS]

  the iOS App Store you have to put up with 30% you have to put up with all [TS]

  these rules and restrictions you have to do a preview but the upside is you get [TS]

  access to this massive massive customer base that is just incredibly high in [TS]

  volume and there's tons of money floating around and it's fairly easy you [TS]

  know it's possible for me for many people to make a good living there [TS]

  the Mac App Store has all the same downside of the iOS App Store plus it [TS]

  has a way smaller installed base than that I O S even among people who use [TS]

  Macs a smaller percentage of them use the Mac App Store also the Mac App Store [TS]

  app is I think one of the worst at the ships with OS 10 I mean it's just a [TS]

  terrible at its buggy it is confusing to navigate even when it works properly it [TS]

  is visually really wacky and inconsistent and dated looking i mean [TS]

  they're so it's a terrible at the mental model of those opposed my mind [TS]

  how many people know that if you click the Update button and immediately quit [TS]

  the app to the Upstate still continues in the background Michael who would who [TS]

  would guess that based on the model of any app they've ever use like this [TS]

  because it's so integrated into the system of the software update deal where [TS]

  the hell is running in the background like the fact that it could be [TS]

  downloading updates like it just totally breaks the model of an app that most [TS]

  people are you still on the max supercomputers yeah I mean so so the Mac [TS]

  App Store like it has all the downsides of the iOS App Store plus a number of [TS]

  additional downsides and very little of the same upside and so it's no wonder [TS]

  that know that a No in it and there's no activity their biggest downside is sadly [TS]

  that said before everybody involved that they're all alternatives to it like for [TS]

  all the things that developers had about the iOS App Store about 30% about not [TS]

  having your own customers about cutting be able to respond to reviews like just [TS]

  all those terrible things on the Mac people like herself right we are already [TS]

  big company where do you know how to sell things we turn to sell the Mac App [TS]

  Store we have the alternative right and so that means that they get all the [TS]

  benefits of you know be able to talk directly to customers balance updates [TS]

  like all that stuff but they also get all the downside that Apple is trying to [TS]

  help them to avoid like essentially if there had been only one place where you [TS]

  get software for your Mac and I'm not recommending this because I am an old [TS]

  man who likes things the old way but anyway that had been the case the Mac [TS]

  App Store ironically would actually be much better because people will be [TS]

  forced to get into it that will probably force Apple to deal with some of its [TS]

  rules you know like that hasn't happened in iOS it has no place like anything [TS]

  about the Ono interpreters ok well I guess games gonna have interpreters [TS]

  because they are you skipping like that's a that's a perfect example of [TS]

  let's make a bunch of really strict rules and then that's how unforeseen [TS]

  consequences in da says you gotta let us run Lua scripts that's how our home [TS]

  games work he is big enough for them to go all right all right you can run [TS]

  interpreter unless your game running a blog about line like every other place [TS]

  where something has been restricted in the iOS App Store if a big enough for [TS]

  enough important companies you know if it's [TS]

  at stopping them from selling in there or if they if they can't get their [TS]

  applications and they just think about the Mac App Store be like if that was [TS]

  the only way dobie could get Photoshop onto the Mac it would have to be very [TS]

  different sandboxing cannot existence was gonna say we're not interested in [TS]

  Photoshop for the Mac anymore sorry you know something will have to give this is [TS]

  all just a fantasy hypothetical scenario not something I recommend you can never [TS]

  actually happened for the Mac being with it is a general-purpose computer is not [TS]

  a closed system like I was blah blah blah understand all of this I'm just [TS]

  saying like due to that reality the Mac App Store is even worse even further [TS]

  handicapped by by the existence of a better readily available alternative the [TS]

  Mac developers already experienced with your last piece of follow-up is from [TS]

  Sarah and she had some very interesting points with regard to the watch which [TS]

  John you alluded to earlier you wanna tell us about these yeah this is about [TS]

  my market talking about the again the watch replacing the phone and I said [TS]

  that I hadn't heard anyone say that again markets a dozen people looking to [TS]

  have a lot to say no that's the thing that scary place the phone now right [TS]

  which is really just sort of excitement about anything and not a particular plan [TS]

  to do so here is an actual plan to do so she says as soon as the watch has a [TS]

  cellular radio I'll be ditching my phone and going with a watch + iPad set up and [TS]

  the reasons for this are things that hadn't occurred to me because i dont [TS]

  have these problems and the problems are women's clothing don't have as many [TS]

  pockets so you don't always have a place to your phone and the alternative of [TS]

  putting in a bag is a pain she refers to the email to the tyranny of the handbag [TS]

  is it real thing [TS]

  describes a phenomenon that I admit I also have not seen the ever been to a [TS]

  nightclub you'll see in women dancing awkwardly unable to move properly [TS]

  because they can put their baghdad anywhere [TS]

  our group of women dancing in a circle with their bags on the floor in the [TS]

  center so they can keep them safe for the women can still dance this is not a [TS]

  good situation and not something that comes up with the idea is if you can [TS]

  have a watch on your wrist you not to worry about a pocket to find to put the [TS]

  things you don't worry about that putting something valuable in your [TS]

  personal find someplace safe to put your purse [TS]

  seen a lot of water views and a lot of it is about like the freedom of your [TS]

  phone in your pocket I think there is a potential freedom in not only not run [TS]

  into your pocket but maybe not having to have your phone to perform some limited [TS]

  set of tasks like if you just want to sort of be in touch by phone and be able [TS]

  to send and receive text messages and some rudimentary way he may be the [TS]

  freedom that affords is worth the massive drop in in functionality to you [TS]

  would be sacrificing by not having a phone but only having a lot so there [TS]

  there's one vote four person is willing to do that as soon as the watch becomes [TS]

  a little bit more independent [TS]

  that's a very good point that you know we didn't think of because we didn't ask [TS]

  and this is what we want two things are trying to improve even you if you want a [TS]

  dog walk right if you go on a dog walk with Bluetooth headphones and meat [TS]

  products now it just promoting stuff onto the watch our adorable I wouldn't [TS]

  it be nice you said like I don't don't think my why don't you take my keys but [TS]

  I do is take my phone would you feel like you could get into a place where [TS]

  you gonna go out for dog and just like not have just had to watch on and that's [TS]

  it [TS]

  like if you what would what would they need to add to your watch for you to do [TS]

  that and not have to feel like it didn't give me well it would need to be able to [TS]

  run overcast that's number one like independently of the phones are not [TS]

  worth watching [TS]

  natural native overcast Apple would have my stuff on it saying everything's [TS]

  that's you know that's that's what I would need to do that the reality is I [TS]

  wouldn't face is probably personally pocket for your phone but I'm saying [TS]

  like what if you didn't if you didn't have to take it like oh well as be [TS]

  overcast like is not an app to your costly interacting with like you're [TS]

  listening right you know it's the ideal case of like oh that's all you need your [TS]

  podcast if you just need a native overcast and you're watching your [TS]

  watches you know I still radio whatever like if you got all that it's not your [TS]

  fingers and have it would you find yourself like you be taken from that had [TS]

  been eventually be like a maybe use it if you want to send a long text somebody [TS]

  on a dictator and arrest I don't have watched I can make all this yeah I don't [TS]

  know I mean if I I see why a lot of other people would want this [TS]

  runners joggers like the it they would they could do the kids like the chances [TS]

  of a phone flying idea pocket if you try to keep it in jogging shorts is way [TS]

  higher [TS]

  then if you keep it in like the jeans and terrible cargo shorts that I wear [TS]

  when I walk my dog they don't even need some new GPS yeah and and a lot of a lot [TS]

  of the exercise trackers have GPS for that reason yet but we'll see about that [TS]

  at that and that's why I like I can see the Apple watch adding GPS before I see [TS]

  it adding a cell radio necessarily as lower power at my wife has a big Garmin [TS]

  you know a Garmin like basically wrist watches the ugliest thing I've ever seen [TS]

  a big Garmin GPS she has an iPhone 5s right but she doesn't like to run with [TS]

  the phone with its big right so she put the government and why is she just to [TS]

  have a step tracking like she wants to know exactly how far she ran and maybe [TS]

  the route you took and tracking is not as accurate as UPS for measuring the [TS]

  things she wears the big bulky government thing so she didn't want to [TS]

  watch but maybe if that is if the Apple watch had GPS I think she could be [TS]

  compelled to buy one of you become more interested and I'll tell you I mean I [TS]

  don't know I don't think Apple what does can do distance accurately without the [TS]

  phone present his I don't know how it would well the documentation that I've [TS]

  read although I haven't tried this is that if you keep the phone with you [TS]

  it'll obviously use the phone's GPS to kind of cross referencing corroborate [TS]

  what it thinks but it knows how tall you are in knows how many steps you're [TS]

  taking and so it makes the best guesstimate based on what it thinks your [TS]

  stride is and how many steps he's taken to guess how far you've run and I think [TS]

  that it will kind of train itself based on the times are you actually have your [TS]

  phone with you and do the same things [TS]

  yeah I think that's our end tweet something like showing she brought a GPS [TS]

  with air and also the also the Apple watch after she calibrated and show they [TS]

  were only off by like you know fraction of a mile or something to try to show [TS]

  that you would think that step tracking could always but always be off by some [TS]

  but actually it can get pretty close but you know it not just distance people [TS]

  want GPS as they wanted a route they want to see a map I ran through the park [TS]

  I did this year I was going slow here is where I was going fast if that's what [TS]

  you want so you need you need to know [TS]

  two-dimensional position and forever throughout the 2012 National positioning [TS]

  and and distant tracking when I have the phone with me on my [TS]

  dog walks is great like I verified this site called gmap pedometer that lets you [TS]

  just like it's an elite and Google Maps and you can click out the route you took [TS]

  it and tell you how long that was I love tracking this now so I have never been [TS]

  into activity before I've never tracked anything about my activity I've never [TS]

  cared about fitness have never regularly done any fitness except I do walk my dog [TS]

  most days and we have a very hilly town and I and we walk between three quarters [TS]

  of a mile and a half miles depending on whether the ability and everything so [TS]

  I've now actually been really enjoying tracking that and seeing oh I have I've [TS]

  only gone and 1.2 miles maybe I should take this turn here in this block and [TS]

  added and I keep finding myself like adding to the route just to to help you [TS]

  know finish up my circles in the watch or to to beat yesterday's record of [TS]

  never it's really you know this unification stuff of fitness I know that [TS]

  it might not work for every day this stuff tends to work for a week and then [TS]

  you give up on it you don't have the antibodies that's that's what happened [TS]

  here you've been infected by the information you need to it from having [TS]

  had 17 different debates go through the washer whatever else so this is your [TS]

  first your first experience with this and it does have a it does have the [TS]

  Hawks looks like this you know I'm under no impression that this will last [TS]

  forever I hope it does but I know myself and how easy I am and how much I hate [TS]

  fitness so this will probably wear off the right now just wanted to finish [TS]

  those circles has gotten me to move more and to to complete my goals everyday [TS]

  like it is like I i have on my watch face I have only a couple complications [TS]

  and one of them is the activity rings and so I [TS]

  whenever I look at the watch I'm seeing so it's not like this thing I have to [TS]

  remember to check like a Fitbit or a pin or even like a pedometer affidavits [TS]

  pedometer up I have remember to check those this I don't even have to remember [TS]

  to check its its annoying me on the watch face every day until it's complete [TS]

  and so that like it actually does work I [TS]

  before the watch came out I was concerned about the big sensor bulge in [TS]

  the bottom of it for the fitness centers and I and I made a couple are marked as [TS]

  friends saying like you know if they made a version that didn't have that [TS]

  sensor bulge and lacked all the fitness features I'd rather have that version [TS]

  because it would be thinner it might be more comfortable and having that bulge [TS]

  there might be lighter blah blah blah yeah turns out I use those features I [TS]

  love those features so I'm really glad there is no option not to have them [TS]

  because they would have picked that option and I would have missed all this [TS]

  and missed out on the health benefits and stuff there are so so yeah I'm I'm [TS]

  very happy with this real-time follow up on my wife on an Apple ID she emphasizes [TS]

  that the main reason why she doesn't want the watch is because you can wear [TS]

  it work for security reasons I should have thought of that why it does have a [TS]

  camera anything at the microphone thanks again everything with Bluetooth or [TS]

  something that's so peculiar that lots of shows lots of security but anyway [TS]

  yeah otherwise I assume she would get it just to try it out to see what it's like [TS]

  yeah I would I'd like to echo everything I Marko said and we're gonna buy gas [TS]

  rather than talk about a minute we'll just talk about it right now I did get [TS]

  an apple watch I ended up i think i dirty talk about how he had ordered one [TS]

  on launch day at about 7:10 after seven in the morning eastern time what ended [TS]

  up happening was always loved this show that I'm sure was nice enough to offer [TS]

  me a spare watch that he had had he became upon the spare watch because he [TS]

  had ordered to the one that I always wanted which is the 42 millimeters space [TS]

  black sports space great sport he ordered one of those and then ordered a [TS]

  different want to believe it was the forty two millimeter white sport and [TS]

  decided that he actually liked the white sport or whatever it was I'm pretty sure [TS]

  that's right though and he was kind enough to offer to sell me the extra 42 [TS]

  million no need space grey sport that he had and so that's what I did it was [TS]

  extremely gracious of him he didn't need to do that he could have absolutely [TS]

  raked over the coals in terms of cost so I am forever indebted to meet on but [TS]

  anyways I got my Apple watch and I really like it [TS]

  and hopefully by the time this airs I will put up my review of the Apple watch [TS]

  on my blog and so hopefully you will see a link in the show notes if you don't [TS]

  then yell at me to publish it but either way I completely agree with everything [TS]

  you said that having the Rings as a complication which I do and seeing the [TS]

  knowledge to stand up in seeing God I really need to just go for like a 10 [TS]

  minute power walk around the neighborhood that absolutely has gotten [TS]

  me moving more than I did before and yes maybe in a month or even in a week that [TS]

  all go away and I'll just find this to be silly but today I love it and it's [TS]

  absolutely causing me to move more our second bunch of this week is igloo igloo [TS]

  isn't internet you will actually like with a glue you can share news organize [TS]

  your files coordinate counters and manage projects all in one place it's [TS]

  like taking the best of the web and productivity apps counters where like [TS]

  microblogs file-sharing task management wikis and more all available privately [TS]

  and securely for your company or group [TS]

  internets are highly functional stylish easy to use with widget based [TS]

  drag-n-drop interfaces they also have a have an upgrade this past fall and [TS]

  spring called Viking which evolves around documents and how you interact [TS]

  with them gather feedback and make changes they've even had the ability to [TS]

  track who has read critical information on your internet to keep everyone on the [TS]

  same page and Allegri receipts an email though it's annoying to help you track [TS]

  whether employees have read it and acknowledged policies sign off on legal [TS]

  agreements or confirm completion of training materials very important for [TS]

  businesses to be able to have confirmation of those things and all [TS]

  they do is built on a very advanced html5 platform it's fully responsive and [TS]

  offers all the all these features all the features the the document tracking [TS]

  annotations document viewing all sorts of stuff track things with it offers all [TS]

  of this in html5 so you can do although their mobile devices it's really quite [TS]

  impressive you can preview and edit documents and attractions all this stuff [TS]

  no matter what device you're on full functionality whether it's computer [TS]

  iPhone Android phone or even a blackberry they make it work on all [TS]

  these devices [TS]

  html5 and also because it's responsive it looks good and all those devices and [TS]

  the new devices come out new screen sizes come out already works on them so [TS]

  if your company has a legacy internet look it was built in the nineties you [TS]

  should definitely give it a try [TS]

  they are even completely free to use for as long as you want for groups of 10 or [TS]

  fewer people so really if you have a small company or group for 10 if your [TS]

  people in it you gotta give it a try but it's free what you have nothing to lose [TS]

  if not you can go check it out and you should still give a try because it is [TS]

  really very reasonably priced after that and really you can get and you get a [TS]

  free trial of course so there's so much about a clue to like it is really for [TS]

  businesses that needed internet which is most businesses you gotta check it out [TS]

  it's so much better than everything else out there that does this so sign up for [TS]

  a free trial today at igloo software dot com slash ATP igloo the internet you [TS]

  will actually like thank you very much to a clue igloo software dot com slash [TS]

  ATP yes please resist the urge to write your own Internet plays for everyone [TS]

  involved and never works out [TS]

  amen to that alright so Facebook came out with instant articles the gist of it [TS]

  is that Facebook has now launched this platform system whatever you want to [TS]

  call it for publishers like the new york times and BuzzFeed in TechCrunch like [TS]

  four major publishers and I think it works by page but we'll see anyway [TS]

  they've launched thing for publishers can now have articles that pop up and [TS]

  can be read completely within the Facebook apps and the Facebook site at [TS]

  least the apps after what matters most in demand for mobile stuff and and so [TS]

  any idea here is interesting so you know there's so publishers so that the idea [TS]

  is they don't want you going to the publishers websites to read them are [TS]

  popping up a a WebView in the app on the New York Times dot com whatever they [TS]

  want the article to display directly within the Facebook app natively in the [TS]

  interface have have all the images and stuff loaded up there and and be able to [TS]

  do dynamic cool animated stuff and everything else i I have a pretty [TS]

  cynical view of this but i i think it's inevitable John Germany think so [TS]

  the first part of those interested in with the instant part because just [TS]

  technologically like you know this is a native app looks like it's by the simple [TS]

  to the paper app I saw tweeted by Mike Matusow find out about us assume he's [TS]

  involved it's very slick looking at the pitch to the user is your gonna launched [TS]

  Facebook anyway you're going to school three years here you know your Facebook [TS]

  feed right that's something you're going to do anyway when you see something [TS]

  interesting in your Facebook feed [TS]

  like someone posted I can article I go I saw this girl can you might wanna check [TS]

  it out to Reston commentary when you tap on that whether it's like a movie [TS]

  reviewer you know some things for you to be outraged about and then yelled out on [TS]

  Facebook revered as they want you to be able to tap on that thing and not have [TS]

  to wait for a web page they want you to tap and immediately be reading your [TS]

  article right and of course all the demos thereof [TS]

  from national geographic or something with a beautiful picture and or whatever [TS]

  but as i think i emphasize like unlike marcos traditional criticism of paper [TS]

  which is that the app looks great of all your friends are beautiful people who [TS]

  are always on vacation in California adding that to the instant thing is like [TS]

  okay well this is not articles to your friends made 20 articles in The New York [TS]

  Times or you know poster whatever like these are professionally produced things [TS]

  you know and the chances of them looking nice and enticing your timeline is [TS]

  really high but they want to make it so that when you're going through a [TS]

  timeline that you can consume knows as easily as you can read a comment for [TS]

  somebody is going to tap on it and it instantly there and that is a if that [TS]

  works as advertised [TS]

  that's a great and user benefit because people do scroll through timelines and [TS]

  people do want occasionally things and I know that I often feel I would like to [TS]

  read that but I don't wanna wait for them to lower it sounds stupid it's like [TS]

  you can't wait 2 seconds or something you like you're on wifi your iPhone 6 [TS]

  not going to take any age too low but sometimes just like just the idea of the [TS]

  screen blanking going through a spinner and having hit the back [TS]

  blah blah just waiting for that number all spoiled but I wouldn't use the [TS]

  analogy of like the studies that I think Google Yahoo did it ever like what does [TS]

  an extra 200 milliseconds response time on a server due to the the purchase [TS]

  rates of items in a store and it's like tremendous effects of a tiny speed [TS]

  change of speed page loading you would think like shaving 200 milliseconds off [TS]

  of the products page make a difference in sales and the answer was like yes a [TS]

  tremendous difference like there's a huge cliff after which people just [TS]

  aren't interested in lose you know and so that effect i think is real for [TS]

  people as they say [TS]

  Marco can filter the next my voice and my kids here [TS]

  engaging with content as reading at a staff meeting the stuff that's in the [TS]

  time like someone post a link to an article are you can actually read that [TS]

  are going to go right past it if it loads quote-unquote instantly then you [TS]

  won't and the reason I think this is an interesting reframing is because as we [TS]

  all know I can't actually like this nothing instant all doing is preloading [TS]

  it right that's all you know is just spending a different time doing it [TS]

  rather than waiting and you know tons of browsers do is chrome I think was the [TS]

  first one to really aggressively do it like prefetching all the pages link for [TS]

  a page Google Prefecture as the first search results or chrome that you like [TS]

  we're going to load it before you tap it so that by the time you tap it is loaded [TS]

  it's also it's also presumably looking less stuff like you know it's probably [TS]

  also not loading the million different JavaScript trackers a load some of them [TS]

  because that is compatible with publishers tracking system that [TS]

  publishers ad systems so it will be loading some of that stuff but I think I [TS]

  think I would bet and you know it's not loading giant stylesheet giant [TS]

  JavaScript includes for the site theme in the header and everything like you [TS]

  don't think I'm I'm betting that it's it's only loading the article + tracking [TS]

  stuff and add stuff like not necessarily the tremendous sidebars the all the [TS]

  related content if you look at if you look at the typical article page 44 a [TS]

  major site there's so much other crap on that page and so many includes for style [TS]

  and Java stuff like this so much stuff a lot that's going to be there in the [TS]

  Facebook version cuz they're gonna want their tracking [TS]

  want their money and Facebook support those things but I bet it's going to be [TS]

  a lot less than having like the headers and footers the sidebars all that crap [TS]

  that though is loaded I was just thinking they're going to be more pills [TS]

  again a richer experience which is code for gonna take it year downloads who's [TS]

  gonna have a lot of stuff in it but you know it could it could be better there [TS]

  is it's conceivable it'll be lighter weight due to the shared resources among [TS]

  all the articles but but basically it's time shifting gets its clever pre [TS]

  cashing of things that they that you know we will fetch it for you so that [TS]

  when you tap it is there which is a great idea for thing but trying for an [TS]

  application benefit but trying to sell that is instant I don't see how that can [TS]

  can fulfill its promise because it's got it down the sink some time and if your [TS]

  connection is slow and you launch the app and you scroll through it it's not [TS]

  get any tap on the first thing you see and if it doesn't have you you know it's [TS]

  gonna background downloading like I'm sure they do everything in their power [TS]

  and that was a platform to try to get us that download it before you tap on it [TS]

  but sometimes you're going to win the race and when you do that it's going to [TS]

  be like to be instant because it won't it won't be instant is a reasonable [TS]

  selling point that they can but like putting it right in the name may end up [TS]

  backfiring so that's that's one thing just the simple technology behind what [TS]

  is this thing what do the selling point for use of pepper well I mean do you [TS]

  think the name is actually meant to be like this is why Facebook is doing it or [TS]

  do you think the name is a red herring to convince people that they should do [TS]

  this thing that massively benefits Facebook that's what I'm gas like this [TS]

  this is the end user this is the end user story why would you be interested [TS]

  in the future hinson articles you want to read them you know have to wait good [TS]

  but it is it is the least interesting aspect of this feature from the sort of [TS]

  strategic perspective the user's perspective is Facebook saying we want [TS]

  to be the the place where people get your content don't send them to your [TS]

  website in fact why even bother having website once you do everything through [TS]

  us be able to create a network we can do kool ad targeting you could advertise [TS]

  300 percent of the revenue from all the people who go through but it's totally [TS]

  great guys come right in [TS]

  you know like I hope all the content providers are smart enough to not sort [TS]

  of fall into this trap because [TS]

  it's giving Facebook if this if this was super successful and it became one of [TS]

  those things like well you gotta have a facebook is an article you can't there's [TS]

  no way you can get in traffic about doing that that spells bad news for [TS]

  everybody several Facebook everybody consumers you know websites everybody [TS]

  and so I really hope it doesn't succeed in 16 but like I kinda like and to do it [TS]

  doesn't succeed not because it's not a benefit to the end user because I don't [TS]

  want Facebook to be the the gateway for most of the things that people read [TS]

  because no I don't I mean unfortunately I think that's the reality you know and [TS]

  that you know i i think we've been feeling for a while and a lot of people [TS]

  I don't think are are ready to to see or admit this yet but the web is really [TS]

  dramatically losing relevance not the internet but the web [TS]

  the the web is viewed in web browsers that is so dramatically losing relevance [TS]

  in in the age of mobile and absent and they have stuff now and social stuff at [TS]

  the web is losing its not going to die over the losing I feel like as it goes [TS]

  in cycles and I you know I guess it's not gonna die you can't kill it because [TS]

  it is available right but it does does going so it's kind of the same things [TS]

  people said about giving Apple power by like you shouldn't have a website you [TS]

  should just have a nap right and that's the same as I situation you would want [TS]

  to get out of that power at all but the way it looks like a check out to me is [TS]

  that every website has an appt but it is not made the websites go away and this [TS]

  Facebook thing looks much more capable of making the web site's become like the [TS]

  new york times out but there's no way the New York Times out is ever going to [TS]

  make the New Times website go away as New York Times if there was a New York [TS]

  Times instant article thing to Facebook just so much bigger than a pond already [TS]

  has already succeeded so far gotten so far getting everybody to consume [TS]

  everything through the Facebook feed that terrify like they're closer to [TS]

  being able to suck publications in and make their websites irrelevant I mean [TS]

  this is like this is way bigger than Google News ever was back in the day [TS]

  that was a man that was a big deal and publishers were [TS]

  trying to threaten to sue them but then they didn't want to block by them are [TS]

  committed to that would be even more even more disastrous this is like that [TS]

  times 10 I really do think that web browsing is really in trouble and as a [TS]

  result publishers are in trouble I i read article with a terrible title about [TS]

  this about a year ago or something I i think is very clear that all of this [TS]

  social usage all the time people are spending using apps and using social [TS]

  networks on their phones and stuff is some of that is attitude when people are [TS]

  just waiting in line at the bank or something where they weren't doing these [TS]

  things before but a lot of that is also time that has been taken away from [TS]

  browsing the web reading publisher sites reading RSS and stuff like that for the [TS]

  geeks like this is actually been all this this social activity is competing [TS]

  with that and has taken a lot of it I do I worry a lot about the future of the [TS]

  web I really don't think this is a small trend or a temporary thing or something [TS]

  that that is guaranteed to just had the pendulum swing back the other way [TS]

  eventually I think this is a major shift that people have voted with their time [TS]

  and with their activity in with their attention they have voted for [TS]

  centralized proprietary ecosystems focused on social and snack a political [TS]

  traffic in these social networks Facebook mostly some Twitter stuff like [TS]

  that like that people have voted that's what they're going that's what they want [TS]

  the internet to be people on the whole don't care about the open web they don't [TS]

  care about everyone having their own site of the only control and being able [TS]

  to browse things through open standards people don't care a few keeps care even [TS]

  we have moved so much of our activity to Twitter and stuff like this this is a [TS]

  massive trend that I think it would be unwise to ignore and unfortunately you [TS]

  know just like just like when we moved from the previous systems that we had to [TS]

  the web [TS]

  there was a lot of good that came from that a lot of big numbers that came with [TS]

  that letter new abilities that came with that [TS]

  but not everything transitioned over not everybody was a winner there and and a [TS]

  lot of things just well you know that that that thing that used to work now [TS]

  doesn't or that role that used to have now we don't need you anymore that is [TS]

  that is happening now with with the move towards apps to move towards social [TS]

  stuff and with so much traffic to web publishers now coming from mobile and [TS]

  social music not coming from blog links and search engines and people browsing [TS]

  and web browsers on the computers like that shift is happening and has happened [TS]

  like that we are already very much into that shift characterized it does a [TS]

  series of swings but not so much the pendulum one thing does supplant the [TS]

  other but like almost in terms of that we're getting into a more balanced [TS]

  situation now and the supremacy of the web was actually on balance because what [TS]

  the website you do [TS]

  originally was read stuff like articles ride and for a long time since that was [TS]

  so dominant was like that defined the internet was the web right and what the [TS]

  weather to do is read stuff people are spending a lot more of their time [TS]

  reading stuff even if you want to RSS that and now we've shifted because [TS]

  there's ways to do things other than read stuff you can text people text [TS]

  messaging was one of the first steps now I'm writing stuff right you can play [TS]

  games you can watch movies you can keep you know use native apps to do things [TS]

  that are very different then you're reading a big page of stuff and so I [TS]

  feel like this is an adjustment in terms of activity choices like people read the [TS]

  web less because they're doing things more what are they doing on the phone [TS]

  they're not doing the equivalent to bring the web they're doing something [TS]

  different and why couldn't they do it on the web because the web take a long time [TS]

  to get that kind of interactivity and everything [TS]

  so I think maybe we're more in balance now the reason this instant article [TS]

  thing is is scary because it is asking people to do the one thing that the web [TS]

  you know is best suited for like you know reading stuff public publishing or [TS]

  publishing platform anybody can make a website you can start publishing stuff [TS]

  at the entire world can read it and what kind of stuff about a bunch of texts and [TS]

  pictures right that is likely core competency of attacks reading things of [TS]

  the web reading things if Facebook can get that into their you know it's not [TS]

  even interactive things on a social network like for you know like a tard [TS]

  the articles in The Social Network you're reading the article right if they [TS]

  can pull that away from the web now you're really starting to pull the core [TS]

  of like what the web what the web does in a non-proprietary way it's as if [TS]

  someone tried to replace the email with the system that was exactly like email [TS]

  but a hundred percent proprietary and that so far hasn't worked despite you [TS]

  know being super terrible way worse than the weather wasn't terms of no [TS]

  authentication spam and all the things that we had about email the weather like [TS]

  up on that [TS]

  well has that not worked how about I message not email like emails when you [TS]

  write a long form thing but even text message like you would think that go [TS]

  ahead a hundred ways I can write to somebody academic Twitter DMI corrected [TS]

  them and slack I could do this like you that email survives despite it being [TS]

  terrible Facebook messages are pretty big I know but you know i mean perhaps [TS]

  the main thing keeping him alive is that you can even sign up for any service [TS]

  that an email like it is the linchpin system right when you gonna put in the [TS]

  you know i mean and I thought the web has the same longevity but it would be a [TS]

  huge mistake for anybody publishing on the web to give Facebook too much power [TS]

  and with web publication struggling to figure out their minds they sent [TS]

  strategies and all this other stuff they are vulnerable to to do you know to [TS]

  being like well we gotta do something and that's because the great advertising [TS]

  platform that hoe gillian users and then you know you just wait a year in [TS]

  Facebook's turning the screws me like actually show you are a lot of people as [TS]

  you pass which is the whole big thing and just yeah that's the thing I mean [TS]

  this is why this is such a terrible situation I mean I think because of the [TS]

  move toward everything being mobile because so much [TS]

  traffic to publishers websites now has to come from social services I'm not [TS]

  sure the publishers have much of a choice you know it's it's just like when [TS]

  Google News [TS]

  you know when people threatened in middle block them and then like beg to [TS]

  be let back in [TS]

  there's all these like you know situation where one party has just [TS]

  tremendous power on the web and publishers much have to play ball at [TS]

  them because they can't afford not to have that audience on to have that [TS]

  traffic Facebook is that platform today and publishers depends so much on [TS]

  getting social traffic and Facebook is so good at delivering that traffic [TS]

  sometimes only if you pay and being really cagey about it like this is of [TS]

  course that's their plan of course their plan is to have is to move even more [TS]

  activity in to Facebook its it comes from not only a position of greed but [TS]

  also position of just arrogance like our appt is better than your website you [TS]

  know you you're incapable of making pages to load quickly even though this [TS]

  can be solved by smart web design and a good CD and a lot of times they're right [TS]

  though unfortunately that's yet but not every time but anyway you know like they [TS]

  this move is them just you know annexing more of the web like hey you know what [TS]

  we are so powerful that you have to play ball with us we're going to offer this [TS]

  thing now and our partners who use this their stuff is gonna ranked a lot higher [TS]

  than a random link to an arbitrary site now and the timelines and turn the [TS]

  screws right they are so good at that that's what they do you would think they [TS]

  would figure it out by now my kind of music labels figured out after the [TS]

  iTunes thing like maybe don't give one company too much power right you last [TS]

  minute labels how they're doing right now [TS]

  well but like I mean they eventually figured out and now it's kind of like [TS]

  accepted wisdom in the in the digital publishing [TS]

  you know digital media like music movies or whatever that it is a huge mistake to [TS]

  put all your eggs in the basket one technology company despite the fact that [TS]

  all the media companies have proven they can do the technology themselves they've [TS]

  learned I think just just received wisdom now even if you can't just take [TS]

  yourself but you can't because you never give one company all your stuff never [TS]

  level get too big never let Amazon get too big never let you know like and they [TS]

  all know that right and maybe they know it too well and are being stubborn with [TS]

  things like TV with a view to making progress bottle blob you would think in [TS]

  the web they would also know that by now as well that like any of those look at [TS]

  your books on Amazon like oh boy that was a big mistake they give Amazon a [TS]

  much power in the book industry and they tried to balance it with apple and you [TS]

  know that I'm quite work out the way they wanted to read so I'm hoping [TS]

  everybody web publishing even though they're in the same dire situation of [TS]

  like we can't figure out how to monetize became reach our audience socialist [TS]

  takeover Baba hope that someone in the meeting like raises their hand and says [TS]

  this is all good and all and I love these numbers in the projections and [TS]

  blah blah blah but we really need to hedge because if we put all our eggs in [TS]

  the Facebook basket they will own us it will be bad I I think you're right they [TS]

  should be saying that however I don't they have another choice that's and [TS]

  that's why Facebook can do this this is like the Internet is really a week we [TS]

  like to think that the Internet is this platform that enables all this openness [TS]

  in everything it does and it can but it also enables massive consolidation of [TS]

  power and consolidation of attention and using proprietary lockdown systems we [TS]

  keep seeing it again and and that's only going to continue and it's a very clear [TS]

  that when you have these centralized systems like facebook like Twitter like [TS]

  Amazon you you can you can offer benefits that like Google you can even [TS]

  offer benefit the get people in in such massive numbers that you could get a [TS]

  trip like that that private company gets a tremendous amount of power and can [TS]

  basically dictator terms to the rest of the world then everything like we're [TS]

  saying this is really potentially really bad and they shouldn't give Facebook [TS]

  overpowered the Fed is Facebook already has power and if someone's not gonna [TS]

  play ball with Facebook they're gonna start losing Facebook search traffic or [TS]

  Facebook social traffic [TS]

  and they're gonna be there gonna be forced to play ball they're going to [TS]

  their hands are gonna be forced well they've got the same game plan as the [TS]

  music label that you're going to find a projection [TS]

  they're only they're they're best in their only hedges unfortunately to try [TS]

  to spread a little bit of your content to another proprietary centralized [TS]

  things like in other words Twitter with the cards and whatever like a plate [TS]

  whatever baseballs and each other [TS]

  Facebook just some of the bigger than that anyway but that's what they've got [TS]

  the option is let's also keep talking to Twitter about their thing and whatever [TS]

  new social network thing like let's also talk to them about like no exclusivity [TS]

  deals try to hedge your bets the best you can Zoe music was nothing when [TS]

  iTunes was done it but by being given tons of attention by being given DRM [TS]

  free music before I was given it by all the music labels and everything it [TS]

  helped to make Amazon into perhaps not the competitive they all wish it was but [TS]

  at least iTunes is now not the only game in town or Spotify and other streaming [TS]

  services even that the streaming services I I bet music labels want to [TS]

  spread things around the difference dreams are as they wouldn't like one to [TS]

  be dominated just something that tends to happen Amazon is a massively dominant [TS]

  online commerce Walmart is massively diamond in the USA and retail Facebook [TS]

  is massively dominant online social a bummer but there's something else here [TS]

  though which i think is is worth pointing out that there's a difference [TS]

  in the power balance between your example that you just gave the most part [TS]

  and and this which is like you know if if if you're popular kind of product is [TS]

  constantly being searched for on Amazon and Amazon doesn't have it that makes [TS]

  them look bad and was like 10 needs that it was the music label negotiations but [TS]

  there's only one for music labels you know if if a big music store launches [TS]

  and they don't have one of them that's a big problem that's like it's going to [TS]

  result in a lot of people looking for stuff not finding it and that negatively [TS]

  affecting the chance they're going to keep you in the music service or keep [TS]

  buying that store even keep bothering to search their with Facebook and these [TS]

  publishers Facebook doesn't really need any of them like at all like this is [TS]

  this is purely for the publishers benefit to be in this system if the [TS]

  publishers if anyone publisher or any group publishes decide they're not gonna [TS]

  do it [TS]

  Facebook couldn't possibly care lest they don't need them [TS]

  need them but they want them they want they want their place to be the gateway [TS]

  to that they don't want i mean you know share on Facebook like you can go to [TS]

  website and the share on the news every article share article in every possible [TS]

  social service but that's not the integration of people but Facebook want [TS]

  they want you to go to Facebook to find our cannot go to the website to find the [TS]

  article minute share button to share with people typically do want to do that [TS]

  because they want people to be you know looking at things on Facebook but it's [TS]

  the inversion of like you know website what website we only knew the only you [TS]

  publish your content to our system on our terms to the people we say you can [TS]

  you can retried and I guess the web [TS]

  keeping the website themselves their edge on that but like I don't know what [TS]

  the best move for them as they do need to reach people like I can think about [TS]

  is how much it could be worse like imagine if Facebook and YouTube like [TS]

  we'd all be screwed like it's game over just is and YouTube itself is pretty [TS]

  dominant but then you said twitchy like well maybe you to achieve YouTube Google [TS]

  aunt which now I keep my forget didn't have any way to consolidation is evil [TS]

  everything old is new again and so I suspect that before too long will be [TS]

  seen keywords on commercials and we'll talk about that right after this [TS]

  commercial our final budget this week is AOL it's where space is where space is [TS]

  the online platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional [TS]

  website portfolio and online store for a free trial and 10% office where [TS]

  space.com enter offer code ATP at checkout [TS]

  Squarespace has tons of great features everything is of course responsive [TS]

  drag-and-drop easy to use they have a ridiculous amount of power bill do this [TS]

  platform [TS]

  space 7 launched last fall and now it's even more integrated with what you see [TS]

  is what you get kind of environment where now there is no more distinction [TS]

  between the editing interface and the publishing and the publisher site you [TS]

  just edit the site right there like you hit a little anything in the corner and [TS]

  the toolbar slides in and you're editing the site live right there and you don't [TS]

  have to publish or change you can keep track of everything but the fact is this [TS]

  bouncing between these two totally different [TS]

  worlds of the editing versus the live site it's all just right there very well [TS]

  integrated and of course where space gives you fully responsive design [TS]

  optimized for mobile you can now even preview the Mobile layout in a regular [TS]

  browser can simulate those with for you and and you know it's it's just so [TS]

  powerful so easy everything is graphical drag-n-drop widgets you can put in photo [TS]

  galleries blog post whatever the case headlines whatever whatever you wanna do [TS]

  you can put all of that right into your site drag-n-drop very easy if you do [TS]

  want to customize things even further like the geeks like us you can insert [TS]

  JavaScript and CSS and just arbitrary HTML into your headers and footers right [TS]

  in this Christmas interface so we do a couple of minor tweaks like that to our [TS]

  site tomorrow you know tonight with some of the layout stuff and it's great you [TS]

  know you just inject JavaScript in his works it's so much power with where [TS]

  space is really incredible you can also they have you know all these great [TS]

  templates for you to use so you don't have to really worry that much about [TS]

  your design if you don't want to and if you do want to you can customize them [TS]

  like crazy if you want to put in images you can of course upload your own and [TS]

  you can also they have a partnership with Getty Images where you can search a [TS]

  very big portion of Katie's catalog and you can buy a stock photo for only 10 [TS]

  bucks to use anywhere in your site on Squarespace so whether it's you know a [TS]

  header footer background to a big splash cover pages are really cool features a [TS]

  big cover pages you can get this nice cool look forward and image for a blog [TS]

  post you can do all that right within their with Getty Images partnership [TS]

  really quite good you can have a store you can sell stuff physical or digital [TS]

  goods commerce functionality is entirely built in no additional charge comes on [TS]

  the plans it is really great Squarespace does so much good stuff really don't [TS]

  build your own site if you don't need to just go to Squarespace it's so much [TS]

  easier believe me that's what we do [TS]

  could recommend them enough it is beautiful it is simple and powerful Dec [TS]

  24 7 support all this is just eight bucks a month and you get a FREE domain [TS]

  if you by Squarespace for the year up front and eight bucks a month with our [TS]

  coupon code ATP gets 10% off your first purchase [TS]

  really I can't say enough good things must see for yourself you don't take my [TS]

  word for it see for yourself goes journey free trial they don't ask you [TS]

  for a credit card and you can just go start a real free trial today no credit [TS]

  card required just tried out the site you you'll be amazed how easy it is and [TS]

  how much you can do when you decide to sign up once again use our coupon code [TS]

  ATP eating a 10% off your first purchase thank you very much to Squarespace for [TS]

  supporting our show Squarespace start here go anywhere [TS]

  Verizon bought a oh well which is weird what's that all about [TS]

  I don't know some people said it was about ad technology I i dont know that [TS]

  seems to make sense to me cuz what else could it be about dial-up I don't mean [TS]

  they do have a bunch of popular websites and some of the spin has been like I was [TS]

  content with that like having them posters TechCrunch there's two like they [TS]

  have a bunch of properties like it would be like holding company at this point [TS]

  but from everything I've read about the CEO did to make the the the company [TS]

  desirable as acquisition is focused on how like trying to make this company a [TS]

  compliment for the things that other companies I need to know so that their [TS]

  advertising technology to serve serve rich as video and the people targeted [TS]

  you know if someone is looking for that ability and the ability to reach a large [TS]

  number of people that's what aol has backed themselves up into an exalted [TS]

  depressing numbers of like how lol stolen from you know the time and they [TS]

  were doing the time-warner merger for 380 billion or whatever they sold [TS]

  himself or part of it is like the name AOL like the company's always been [TS]

  increasingly more than what we think overall we think of AOL [TS]

  but then I just think about all those people to start charging for diabetes [TS]

  angry is the locus to lowercase who had just like looks like AOL and angry and [TS]

  well not because I think like that its people shouldn't have dialogue but I'm [TS]

  angry like at our situation in this country that if your best internet [TS]

  option within your budget is is dialogue on AOL we are failing as a as a country [TS]

  you know like I feel like this plane broadband affordable broadband access [TS]

  should be important enough that it should be subsidized you know maybe not [TS]

  subsidize but like we should whatever we have to do to make it affordable as at [TS]

  as at affordable as having a telephone line is that's what internet access [TS]

  should be and if your only option is literal dial up over a modem to AOL then [TS]

  things have gone horribly wrong [TS]

  yeah I'd say so I don't have been Thompson a pretty good take on this that [TS]

  I skimmed very quickly before we recorded and it seems like it is about [TS]

  and technology I don't know it's just there has a bunch of internet properties [TS]

  like TechCrunch for example in there was a time where I really hated TechCrunch [TS]

  but I actually have come back around and it helps that our friend Matt pincer [TS]

  knows there there's a lot of really good properties there and I'm gonna be fairly [TS]

  sad when Verizon inevitably forces editorial opinions on all of them but [TS]

  they will sell them before they do that I would assume that if not interesting [TS]

  content themselves things off maybe I mean they they probably do make money [TS]

  though I don't know it I've never worked in a bit publisher I have no idea how [TS]

  you know in theory they all attempt to maintain editorial independence from [TS]

  their corporate donors it in practice I don't know how hard that is it if I had [TS]

  to guess I'm guessing that they can usually do that most of the time but [TS]

  maybe some time to get we are too hard I don't know I don't have Verizon is like [TS]

  roger ailes I don't think they have a big you know ideological slanted they're [TS]

  going to impose on the Huffington Post in tech [TS]

  yeah probably not the Verizon tracking cookies all the sites you know that [TS]

  because already on their network anyway like Verizon just want your eyeballs and [TS]

  your monthly check right and so this is just furthering their goals they would [TS]

  it be to me think of someone who would rather have had bio AOL will be rather a [TS]

  table go bankrupt like what is the alternative scenarios for the future of [TS]

  AOL that we would like better than Verizon I mean I got him getting out is [TS]

  that it's not I didn't you know sort of cringe when I saw this announcement the [TS]

  same way I did when I saw like Facebook bought Instagram right sometimes you see [TS]

  a consolidation like I know right [TS]

  this one it's like yeah alright I mean like to be worse right like Verizon [TS]

  could murder of Comcast like to share many more storms they scenarios than [TS]

  than Verizon by the AOL any Verizon could just agree to just stop competing [TS]

  with comcast is not putting out fires can only do that with billions and [TS]

  billions of speaking of subsidies of billions and billions of dollars and the [TS]

  government they need more billions now well could talk I guess doing is a [TS]

  result the same [TS]

  Verizon Business had to say is that it's of all the murders that have taken place [TS]

  June big companies this one seems like all right whatever is this so the AOL [TS]

  Time Warner thing between that and HP Compaq which was the worst merger in [TS]

  history [TS]

  AOL Time Warner that was bigger than XP compact yeah because HP Compaq of these [TS]

  like were similar indeed similar things and its consolidation that made some [TS]

  sense especially in a market where Microsoft was grabbing ever larger [TS]

  values of the PC market and hardware vendors are being pushed harder and [TS]

  harder that is going to be consolidation among them and they both had 10 of an [TS]

  enterprise angle like HP Compaq make some sense and it looks bad because the [TS]

  entire PC sector is contracting as Microsoft sucked all the oxygen out of [TS]

  it [TS]

  fantasy of life the Internet in Hollywood are together [TS]

  and TV shows like this is just a fantasy of some c-level executives had like [TS]

  billions of dollars in little birdies and starts spinning around people's [TS]

  heads thinking this is going to be the new journey not just like you know I [TS]

  thought that was a much bigger disaster response this week [TS]

  cards against humanity igloo and Squarespace and we will see you next [TS]

  week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental [TS]

  john Kasay [TS]

  it was accidental and a team markle [TS]

  talk about your audio engine talk about that now to say I'm working on my [TS]

  streaming engine which engine is this 141 number one attempt number for every [TS]

  every couple of days on Twitter somebody asks the overcast account when you get [TS]

  ahead streaming God finally you know someone that and they do have a point to [TS]

  you and you doing the voice for the final thing but streaming was discussed [TS]

  on this very program along time ago as an important upcoming feature for [TS]

  overcast yeah my goal was to add it like last fall that hasn't happened yet and [TS]

  it's not because I have been working on it it's because I haven't cut it to work [TS]

  I making progress and I haven't you know I have been working on only streaming in [TS]

  overcast for the last year or whatever like I've been doing other things as [TS]

  well yeah like walking near talk like walking might as well as testing of [TS]

  against the simple stuff like you know like the entire rest of the appetite [TS]

  been working on something that I have I have tried to write a streaming engine [TS]

  for overcast on a number of occasions and I keep doing it badly the 17 writing [TS]

  over the last two weeks is significantly better ever gotten significantly further [TS]

  and got with any other attempts before I think I'll be able to do it I i think [TS]

  the 1 I'm writing now is going to be the one so John deals in the chat asking is [TS]

  there an off the shelf streaming solution I have looked at a couple of [TS]

  package to have even tried to integrate some of them that that claim to offer [TS]

  this none of them have worked for me and and some of them some of them they [TS]

  haven't worked for me because they have just annoying shortcomings that that [TS]

  would be a problem in my app things like oh we you know this will support [TS]

  streaming of everything except mp4 files that's a bit of a problem for podcasts [TS]

  and any AAC encoder podcast is wrapped in an mp4 container simple things like [TS]

  no way to get id3 information that might be a problem for me in the future I [TS]

  wanna parts that you know no ability to stoop to jump around [TS]

  in certain formats in certain cases like there's there's there's problems [TS]

  limitation with a lot of the package is out there that if you're writing an app [TS]

  where you are streaming from a known set of sources that you know like if you [TS]

  control the source and then you can say well we're only going to serve mp3 [TS]

  format streams for instance and so you know what you're gonna be reading and [TS]

  you have control over that you love more options [TS]

  first of all if you don't need smart speed you need a player like that the [TS]

  basic things like for for most people you don't need to be working at this [TS]

  level because most applications eighty player will work just fine for you the [TS]

  only reason they need to get this level is to get smart speed working now [TS]

  another option they can make soros has a radio this this is the this is one of [TS]

  the only other apps that has silenced getting as a feature I met him at a news [TS]

  conference this year is really nice guy and I asked him why I know that he [TS]

  supports streaming and he has found skipping and asked him how he did it and [TS]

  he said he just doesn't have sound skipping and effects when its treatment [TS]

  and he he just has two different paths in the code we're like if he's playing a [TS]

  video or playing audio file office stream he just uses every player and [TS]

  then if he's not uses his other audio effects and I could do I could go down [TS]

  that route 2 I'm just choosing not to so I could have offered streaming at the [TS]

  very beginning and just say well you can stream but just then smart speed won't [TS]

  work in a few street I just choosing I don't want that like i don't i don't [TS]

  want that to my solution I want I want smart speed invoice boost and other [TS]

  affected you in the future I want those all to be available no matter what the [TS]

  source of the of the audio is whether you're streaming it whether you know [TS]

  whether you're playing off a local file etc also a TV Player you can't save the [TS]

  contents of a stream and I don't like that I would like I think if your gonna [TS]

  stream data ones you should be able to write that data to local disk and you [TS]

  know be able to play it offline afterwards if you want to so again [TS]

  limitation with the built-in stuff I could have used different modes wrestled [TS]

  well this moody up his limitations I'd rather not do that [TS]

  I'll just have one smart solid system that applies the same rules a matter of [TS]

  the data comes from and give you the same features of the data comes so [TS]

  that's why I'm doing it the hard way and it's very hard and that that might not [TS]

  be the right answer that this might be a terrible idea it might not be worth it [TS]

  but this is how you do it like once you kind of really from reading your [TS]

  messages seems like if any of the steering frameworks gave you a place to [TS]

  sort of insert your own code into the stream where you could do you smart [TS]

  sweet stuff you'd you'd be all set but never none of them seem to give you that [TS]

  low-level access because they always assume you know will take everything for [TS]

  you just pointed to the stream and we'll get the others like no I won't I need to [TS]

  be in there any to look at the bites close by and do stuff with it right so [TS]

  what you're essentially doing is a lot of work to be done for you and other [TS]

  frameworks just even get that one access point is this correct characterization [TS]

  oh yeah that's that's that's part of it and even just like just the way the [TS]

  frameworks work the way they're structured the way I like how the code [TS]

  does certain things there's there's a couple of different low-level audio AP [TS]

  eyes that you could be using I have to be working at basically the lowest level [TS]

  to do what I do and and so some of them don't work at a level that low some of [TS]

  them do but in a weird way that has limitations like this [TS]

  some of them are basically is doing what I'm doing and I can just look at them [TS]

  and see you know some tricks they do or something you know somewhere thing but [TS]

  for the most part now another figure out the right way to do it I think I think [TS]

  I'm making good progress so I'll get there has to be your new Instapaper [TS]

  tableview gridview it's like you do this thing you found out you gotta think I am [TS]

  streaming engine supports all the features to iOS releases later they [TS]

  ad looks taller API's that you could do smart like that's just that's gotta do [TS]

  what you gotta do but I don't know maybe maybe this will never be important [TS]

  enough for them to do like the collection views was eventually [TS]

  important nothing to do but it's tons of apps have abused like that of arbitrary [TS]

  grades of items reordering and blah blah blah but I'm not sure how many apps care [TS]

  about the low-level audio access that you need so maybe your be safe yeah and [TS]

  and like you know eighty player can support voice boost even like you can do [TS]

  audio effects and TV Player you guys can adjust the time scale of the audio so [TS]

  you can do any effect that that take in and out put the same number of samples [TS]

  you can do that maybe player no problem [TS]

  well it's not easy but you can do it but anything that is just the timescale [TS]

  dynamically you can't and that is what smart speed needs to do one of the [TS]

  questions in the chat let me see Cody explorer s that's why is streaming in [TS]

  such demand if you have wifi downloading an individual facilitates a 10 seconds [TS]

  when its low that's a good point you know I've gotten along this far without [TS]

  having streaming one could argue as I've asked myself many times as I keep [TS]

  failing to do it properly [TS]

  one could ask like do I do I ever need streaming and the answer is I think I [TS]

  can get away without it forever if I need to but it would be better with it [TS]

  for two or three main reasons 11 very big use case that people always ask for [TS]

  the night can satisfy is a lot of you prefer to run their clients and [TS]

  streaming only mode and the big advantage here is that you never have to [TS]

  download big chunks so many like an episode that comes in that you don't [TS]

  actually listening to you didn't download that CD that data and also it [TS]

  takes up no disk space basically you have some space for like cashing in [TS]

  artwork and database stuff like that but compared to when you're down an entire [TS]

  episode like fifty or a hundred megs that's a very little space and people so [TS]

  often who have like the 16 gig iPhone that for some reason Apple is still [TS]

  selling they can be very low on space so if you can have a motive your podcast [TS]

  app that doesn't utilize disk space that's there's a lot of people who want [TS]

  that [TS]

  secondarily no matter how fast your connection [TS]

  is if there's an episode that you want to listen to right now and it is not [TS]

  downloaded to tap it and to have to sit there and wait for the whole thing to [TS]

  download before you even start sucks even if it only sucks for five seconds [TS]

  that still sucks many and many cases it's gonna suck for longer than the [TS]

  reality is not everybody has fast wifi not everybody is on wifi not everyone [TS]

  some connection to that fast so if you can tap and start playback soon [TS]

  immediately if that is better like no question that is better forget about the [TS]

  wifi in the cell connections my I have fast all of those things it takes [TS]

  forever to download some podcasts because the hosting is slow [TS]

  that is my biggest complaint about streaming is like if I forget to [TS]

  download a podcast and I have to you know go to work [TS]

  you look at it it's like what is this doing 200 k per second forget it will [TS]

  I'm not going to sit here and wait 15 minutes and is not because of my [TS]

  connection that's because the server can't feed me the bites fast enough and [TS]

  I blame your background downloader yeah if I had to pick one time I'm not big on [TS]

  stream I like the fact that will be able to play play i I would like a hybrid [TS]

  mode where it starts playing as soon as possible but it still down but that [TS]

  featured I must get it tonight about it overcast is why isn't this downloading I [TS]

  don't know why it's downloading I know you have to like start all stop all [TS]

  thing happens sometimes I know you thought about that but the background [TS]

  download firmware everything you do [TS]

  mysterious to me there is no indication in the UI and nothing I can do about it [TS]

  to say other than sometimes pause and restart pause and restart do something [TS]

  starts happening I always want to know what are you waiting to download just [TS]

  thought I would also like to know that [TS]

  yeah unfortunately this framework do not give you that information you could sell [TS]

  it start downloading this and you know it started when you get the first bite [TS]

  right unlike a software update running in the background ahead of you in the [TS]

  queue you know taking your spot in the background cute and eight and he's in [TS]

  the changes mentioned within my third point which is you know let's say I [TS]

  wanna be a feature where you can view a share link [TS]

  natively in the abbot somebody says check out this podcast they was so funny [TS]

  at this minute and that middle is an hour into the show if you can open up at [TS]

  Lincoln overcast and start that play back at that point you have to download [TS]

  the entire file before that the whole first hour of the show you can download [TS]

  a few bites get the header information and then jump ahead with a range request [TS]

  and get like and then only download the part from your play head forward so [TS]

  that's also a very compelling case that could be very useful in the future if i [TS]

  if i do more social features and stuff like that so there there are all these [TS]

  features even right now like when a new download comes in youth notification [TS]

  right now the only thing can offer on that is a dismissed but I can't wait [TS]

  until the download it and then notify the local don't like that and the timely [TS]

  what people want most of the time they want to know when it out so I notify [TS]

  when it out it would be ideal if I could have a button on the notification that [TS]

  said play for the people who want to play and medially and again it's one [TS]

  more feature I can't do really well until they have streaming so there's [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of these like little feature alumni cities that are [TS]

  all being held up by my lack of streaming and so that's that's why I'm [TS]

  working on this [TS]

  yes I can get along forever about it but the Apple be a lot better with it and so [TS]

  that's why I'm doing it that's why it's worth all the trouble and I think I i've [TS]

  gotten pretty far with this latest attempt by I think I really onto [TS]

  something here I think this might be this might be the one guys might have [TS]

  found the one number 42 you sit you looked at a bunch of different packages [TS]

  in order to do this for you and you said that they didn't work out of curiosity [TS]

  did you create anything particularly useful for many of these different open [TS]

  source packages or was that basically wasted time I looked at some of them [TS]

  just like just like how they use some of the API is right but I don't i didnt [TS]

  even copy and paste the code out from them at different or that that [TS]

  unsuitable for my task like it was more like a general overview of like that's [TS]

  interesting like they don't use a buffer here or order using the audio file AP I [TS]

  here or there are these in this weird call here like it that it that kind like [TS]

  it is good like a look at them because they're open source stuff but [TS]

  they haven't been as useful as I would have hoped but for the most part like I [TS]

  would rather be the case honestly I would rather I to myself I can for lots [TS]

  of reasons part of it because I'm just that kind of arrogant programmer part of [TS]

  it because I want to understand what's happening is this is you know I read the [TS]

  rest of my ideal engine this is the crew is a pretty critical part of it and buy [TS]

  right amount Audioengine [TS]

  able to do so much in the app so many little custom things like one of [TS]

  Pakistan's looking at basically in order to use our have to replace most of my [TS]

  audio engine with it and I tried even just trying to integrate that just tried [TS]

  it but in like all the different things that I have to try to wedge [TS]

  even even having access to their source code just the amount of work and change [TS]

  and bug potential there was creating by trying to just match the features I have [TS]

  now using their audio engine it would it was more work to do that [TS]

  that it would have been just write my own even if it takes a year to do it if [TS]

  you considered writing it and go fast speed with the problem but it's not [TS]