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543: In the Pocket of Big Turkey

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:17From Relay, welcome to the Upgrade Holiday Special.

0:00:23This is episode 543. For December 23rd, 2024, this episode is brought to you by

0:00:29Squarespace, Vitaly, and Lex Games. My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by

0:00:37either my co-Santa or my elf, Jason Snell. Hi, Jason.

0:00:41Why aren't you my elf? Hi, Mike. How are you?

0:00:43I'm either Santa or you're an elf. That's how this works.

0:00:47We're co-Santas then.

0:00:49Okay. I'm Santa. You're co-Santa? Is that how that works?

0:00:53No, you're assistant to the regional Santa. That's how that works.

0:00:56There we go. We got him. We got him. This is the holiday special.

0:01:00My word, do we have a weird show for you today?

0:01:02Boy, do we. And I hope you enjoy it.

0:01:04I hope you enjoy it. I have a Snell Talk question for you.

0:01:07I think you mean...

0:01:08[Music]

0:01:15It's jingle all the way, or I mean jingles all the way here.

0:01:20The jingles are back. We will talk about this later on, but I would like to thank

0:01:26Lex Friedman for another selection of incredible jingles in this jingles episode.

0:01:32But I have a Snell Talk question for you and it comes from Aaron who wants to know,

0:01:35"Jason, what is the mix of Christmas-like colors that you went for for the holidays?"

0:01:41Well, I can have any colors that I want, Aaron. That's the answer.

0:01:47I can have any colors that I want.

0:01:49They know that. That's why they want to know. What did you choose?

0:01:52Well, no. On the outside of the house, there are a bunch of different things that cycle through.

0:01:57There's a little flickering green and red. There's one with green and red and white that

0:02:00slides along the house. I've got a whole bunch of different animations out there.

0:02:04Likewise for the tree, I've got the LED lights that have a bunch of animations.

0:02:10Sort of every day or two, I'm changing it to a different animation. Right now,

0:02:12it's one where it's a white, red, and green cycle going around the Christmas tree,

0:02:18because it can do that, because it knows the shape of the tree. It's bananas.

0:02:22I love that we now live in a world where I can just program the colors as we go.

0:02:31I've got a Hanukkah pattern for when Hanukkah happens that will be mixed in with the Christmas

0:02:36pattern. I'm using every color of the rainbow. That's what's happening.

0:02:42If you would like to send in a Snowtalk question of your own, it's very easy to do.

0:02:49Just go to upgradefeedback.com and you could help us start a future episode of the show.

0:02:54Jason, would you like to introduce our next segment, which we're calling Tech Gifts We'd Like?

0:03:00[Music]

0:03:20The only reason we're doing this is because of that version of this, the classic money, money,

0:03:29money jingle that everybody wants forever. It's all about presents now.

0:03:33It's all about presents, and Santa has them. This is the conceit of this topic, which is

0:03:38technology gifts that we would like that we do not have, and there is no budget.

0:03:46That's where I am. I was like, "Well, let me think." Say, "Oh, I would like this or that,

0:03:53maybe like a book's palm or whatever." That's fun, I suppose, but that's something I could

0:03:57have for myself, but not necessarily everything. Jason, would you like to begin? What is a

0:04:04tech gift that you would like that you do not have?

0:04:07I was thinking about this because I'm fortunate that since my job is technology,

0:04:13there's a lot of technology stuff that I end up getting for my work. It's a really nice thing

0:04:19about this. My first one is going to be... I was thinking about this a lot. The one thing that I've

0:04:28thought about and I've had open in web browsers, I'm never going to get it. I'm just never going

0:04:32to get it because it's impractical, but if there were no budget and no object, I just could do it.

0:04:36A retro arcade cabinet. There are a bunch of companies that make these. I think what I would

0:04:44ideally like is something that looks like an arcade cabinet but is actually a fully built

0:04:49emulator, but it's got all of the neat input devices on it, all the buttons and sticks and

0:04:55trackballs and all that stuff so that I can play classic arcade games. There are places that'll

0:05:05make little packs of them or it's a replica of one. I'd really rather not. I'd really rather

0:05:12have it be all the games of all time. Although if you got me a joust cabinet, I would be fine

0:05:19because that's my all-time favorite arcade game. But I like the idea. I've thought about it,

0:05:24about getting a full-on retro arcade cabinet. I do have one of those X Arcade tank sticks that's

0:05:29got the input device for it. It's this enormous, enormous input device. But all I have to do is

0:05:36pull it out and hook it up to my Mac and set it up and it's just not the same as standing at a

0:05:41cabinet. So retro arcade cabinets, they're not cheap. They're kind of impractical. They take up

0:05:46space that my house does not have, but yeah, I would put that on my wish list. Do you remember

0:05:52at the Podcastathon, there was an arcade cabinet on the set and I think you were the same, just

0:06:03constantly draw to it. Every time we were in rehearsals, I was just playing. It was Miss

0:06:08Pac-Man and I was having a great time. Arcade cabinets are just, they draw you in, right?

0:06:13And that's a very good pick. And yes, these days, I actually think they're all emulators of some

0:06:17kind, like because it's just so much easier and more efficient. You just put a raspberry pie in

0:06:22it or whatever. And that's just how the thing runs because why would you do anything more than that?

0:06:27Just why not? Let's go emulate all the way. I'm actually going to meet you in this space.

0:06:33I would like a full racing sim setup for playing F1 games.

0:06:38Remember at your bachelor party, we went to that arcade and they had the sit down race car

0:06:46setups where you could race against other people and stuff? That was pretty good.

0:06:52That is what I want. And you can get the ones where like the chairs are kind of,

0:06:55they're on like hydraulics or whatever, and they move and rumble and I want the whole thing. And

0:07:00with monitors all around me, covering my front and peripheral vision, full on. And these things,

0:07:07you can get started in a sim for like a couple of hundred dollars, but you can go to like

0:07:11thousands and thousands and thousands with the more that you add into these things.

0:07:17But you can get too much. There are some sims which, you know, they'll hurt your arm.

0:07:22If you crash, they're just going to, these things are going to fly around. But yeah,

0:07:27that's what I would like. Some kind of racing sim setup.

0:07:31All right. I'm giving you another one? Okay.

0:07:36We're doing a round robin now. This is not a draft.

0:07:41No, we could get the same thing if we wanted to. I consulted with my guy, my TV guy.

0:07:49My high end, high quality, what's the best TV I should buy right now guy.

0:07:56Uh huh. His name is John Saracusa.

0:07:59Yeah, no surprise.

0:08:00And that's why I'm putting on my list the Sony XR77A95L, Bravia XR A95L, 77 inch QD OLED 4K,

0:08:10HDR Smart TV. Give me the biggest, best OLED available. And probably, as an aside,

0:08:18some sort of smart curtain installation that I'll need to install in my living room,

0:08:22because one of the reasons I don't have an OLED is because my, one wall of my living room is entirely

0:08:30window. And therefore, OLED is not great with that like kind of bright lighting condition. So I'll

0:08:39probably need a smart curtain for when I'm watching things when it's bright outside. But yeah,

0:08:44basically I'm up for a beautiful TV and as big as possible. I like my TV. My TV is great,

0:08:51but it's, you know, it's, I know that I know what I'm missing by not having an OLED. I know that the

0:08:57dark grays that I see should actually be black, but they're not. And so yeah, sure, if money is

0:09:04no object, let's do it. Let's give you that quantum dot action. That's what I want.

0:09:09I'm reminded of when John Sarac- I think we, did we have, or did I, I think I did a standalone

0:09:18mic at the movies for Kill Bill with John. I don't think it was on this show. I think it was like a

0:09:23standalone that I did because it was what he wanted me to watch. And I remember his instructions

0:09:28telling me that I had to close the curtains or close the blinds. I had to watch this movie in

0:09:34the dark. And that's just like a funny thing for that. So yeah. That reminds me very much.

0:09:41I'm going to continue. No, I'm going to go in a completely different direction actually now.

0:09:46I'm going to describe to you, Jason, what would be my ideal computer set up for this desk. It is

0:09:51an M4 Pro Mac Mini with 64 gigabytes of RAM, two terabyte SSD, 10 gigabit ethernet adapter,

0:09:58and two studio displays. That was what I would like. Okay. Are you going to get that? Probably

0:10:04not that exact configuration. Like the two studio displays? No. Like that's why this is a like,

0:10:12no budget thing. I'm not going to do that. At some point in the future, I hope that Apple release

0:10:17a higher quality display and then I will move that to where I have my studio display on my other desk

0:10:22and then move that studio display to this recording desk. But right now the two, like the one LG and

0:10:28one Dell display that I've had for years, just doing the job. But why not go to studio displays

0:10:35if there's no object, you know? I like having two displays for when I'm recording. Like it's

0:10:40really good. I was thinking about how I wish Apple made a state of the art super high end display,

0:10:47because I would put that on my list, but I have a studio display and it's fine. And I don't want

0:10:54their Pro Display XDR that's been out there for years now unchanged. No. But I do want a Pro

0:11:00Motion, you know, like the whole nine yards. I want a 27 inch monitor that is built with the

0:11:07same technology of what you find in the MacBook Pro. Right. But that's not what I'm asking for,

0:11:13because I don't make that. But I would like that like decked out M4 Pro Mac Mini and have a good

0:11:17time. And that Mac Mini is in my future. I just don't know when. But if hey, if Santa's got all

0:11:24the presents, then he could just give me that. Sure. Santa does have all the presents, Mike.

0:11:29Santa does. That's what the song said. So I'm expecting he would give it to me. What's next

0:11:33up on your list? I have two cats. And I have another one. I also, boy, no. I also have toyed

0:11:45around. A lot of this is stuff that I thought about, like, should I? And I just haven't done it.

0:11:49I'd probably get or ask for a litter robot, you know, basically a first off robot in the name is

0:11:57great. But like an automatic cat box cleaning thing. I've heard mixed results about whether

0:12:04some people love them. Some people say they're not worth it. But if it's a gift list item with

0:12:09no budget coming from Santa, I would give one of those a spin. That would be great. I would love to

0:12:14try to reduce the cat box maintenance in the house with technology. That would be great.

0:12:20Great question from ZM Locks in the Discord. Is the litter robot a robot?

0:12:27I don't know. Don't ask me. No, I mean, it doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't go anywhere. So I think no

0:12:33is the answer. That's the what I think fundamentally flawed argument that John

0:12:38Siracusa gives, right? If it has to move, I don't think that that... Shots fired. But yeah, I mean,

0:12:44I've issued this to John before, so I have no problem saying it out loud. I think,

0:12:49does the robot, does it move as the rubric for a robot or not? It doesn't make any sense to me.

0:12:55Okay. I mean, it moves internally, I guess. It spins. It's a little bin and all of that,

0:13:00but it's a brand name, so we don't need to debate whether it's a robot or not. Hey,

0:13:03you're talking to the guy who's tea maker. I call a tea robot. And that's not a robot.

0:13:07I know he doesn't like that. My next up is the PlayStation 5 Pro 30th anniversary edition,

0:13:15something that is very not available anymore because they sold out very quickly. This is

0:13:22the PlayStation 5 Pro, which is not really something that I want, but if I was going to get

0:13:26it, I would want it to look like this. So Sony basically recolored the PlayStation and all of

0:13:32the accessories in the original PlayStation gray colors with the colored logo. And I want everything

0:13:38that it comes with, with the two controllers that are colored this way, the stand. It comes with a

0:13:43cable that you can plug into your controller that looks like it's plugging in the original PlayStation

0:13:49controller. Overall, the package is fantastic, but I had no need for it and would not spend the money

0:13:56for this because I don't feel like I've gotten the most out of my actual PlayStation 5, let alone

0:14:01thinking about a PlayStation 5 Pro. But again, if Santa has all the presents and he's going to give

0:14:05one to me, I'll take this. All right. Makes sense. I like it. I am going to next ask for a proper set

0:14:15of reliable video cameras for the outside of my house. Santa, I hope Santa's got a startup.

0:14:23Some PC funding. Santa Cam. Look, he's got to do something for the other 11 months of the year.

0:14:30I mean, he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or

0:14:34good. How? So therefore he is really part of the surveillance state already. Cut me in Santa.

0:14:41Yeah, I've explored a bunch of different video cameras inside and outside the house. None of

0:14:46them are reliable. They're very frustrating. I'm not really willing to spend the money on something.

0:14:53I just want a couple of cameras out there. First off, some of it's just for my own entertainment,

0:15:00but also just to be able to peer out there. I could keep it on during recording to see if

0:15:05somebody's there. At one point, something happened to somebody's car on my street and they're like,

0:15:11"Oh, you've got a camera. Did you see it?" And I was like, "Let me check. Oh, the camera completely

0:15:16failed." And I thought, "Why am I even doing this?" But if I'm going to do it, I want it to

0:15:21actually work. And the stuff that I've got is just terrible. So I'm just going to say, I don't need

0:15:27your recommendations. Tell Santa what product I should get. Because I think the truth is the

0:15:32amount of time, effort, money I would have to put in to get this is more than I'm actually willing

0:15:38to spend. But I'll put it just out there. That would be one of those things where it's like,

0:15:43I don't even want to do the shopping and ask for the particular product. I want a team of elves to

0:15:48come in and install an entire infrastructure and cameras and wiring and everything. And I want to

0:15:55give zero input about the entire thing because I'm kind of fed up with it. - My last two I'm

0:16:02actually going to do together because they are two sides of the same coin. It is the remarkable

0:16:08paper pro and the Google pixel nine pro fold. These are devices that I find so interesting,

0:16:16but I know I would not use. I would like them for like a day, right? Or like for the occasional

0:16:27thing, but they are way too expensive for the amount of use I would personally get from them.

0:16:32So the remarkable paper pro is the color version of the remarkable, right? So it's like the thing

0:16:37where you can draw on it and you can read on it. - It's an e-ink tablet with a stylus. - Exactly.

0:16:43And then the Google pixel nine pro fold is the folding pixel, right? And I think both of these

0:16:48things technologically are fantastic. And they look like great versions of what they are, like

0:16:54maybe even the best versions of what they are, but they're just not products that I would use enough,

0:17:01partly because of the ecosystems that I'm in, right? So like the Google pixel nine pro fold,

0:17:07if Apple made this, this would be my phone, right? Because it's got all my stuff. And if I,

0:17:13I don't know, annotated documents more, the remarkable would be great. It's like both of

0:17:19these pieces of technology, they're really interesting to me, but I know about myself

0:17:25enough that I would not use these devices anywhere near enough to justify the price.

0:17:32I was going to say the ecosystem that you're in for the remarkable is that paper and nice pens,

0:17:40because that's the thing that I think would probably kill that product for you is that

0:17:43in the end you actually appreciate paper and pens and having to use a stylus and a paper substitute

0:17:51tablet would, I think you would hate it. Yes, because look, they cannot make this feel like

0:17:59pen and paper. They can't, they can't, especially to me, someone who really knows what that feels

0:18:04like. Somebody who knows, yeah, exactly. I'm sure it feels great to write on, but different to pen

0:18:11and paper. All right, I'll give you a last one, which is again vague because I don't know if

0:18:18there's one out there that really fits the bill right now, but I have a lot of hardware floors,

0:18:23especially in our living room and kitchen. And although I have a Roomba that we use and is very

0:18:30loud and robot vacuums are best used when there's nobody in the house and I'm always in the house.

0:18:36So it's not ideal, but I do like it. It does, we don't sweep every day, right? And so the robot

0:18:43going through and vacuuming our floors every day is great. But what I've thought a lot about is

0:18:49probably could have a robot mop because we also don't mop on a regular basis, maybe once a week.

0:18:54And what I've read is, first of all, they make combination mop and vacuums that are apparently

0:19:01not very good. I'm going to say I have the Roomba combo and I have been very happy. All right, well,

0:19:09see, there you go. Anyways, and I've got a Roomba, so I could get a combo or I could just get a robot

0:19:14mop and they could fight it out, right? The Roomba and the robot mop could fight it out. But that's

0:19:19on my list. Again, it's not a thing I've bought. It may not be a thing that I ever buy, but I have

0:19:25had that thought because I do like my gadgets and I do have that expanse of wood floor that could

0:19:30probably use a proper mopping more often than it gets done. So I'll put it on my Santa list. Again,

0:19:36this is the whole idea here. Is it stuff that I, at least I approached it a lot as stuff that I've

0:19:42thought about buying and then thought, no, like some part of me overrides it, like it's not

0:19:46practical or it's too expensive or I might not use it or I don't know how well it works. But for a

0:19:53gift list, works for me. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website

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0:21:56of Relay. There's so much I eat for Christmas. There's so much I eat for Christmas. There's so

0:22:04much I eat for Christmas. Could you grab me a beer? Good advice. We're gonna tier list. We're gonna

0:22:11tier list. Let's go. Tier list time. Christmas food. All right. So we have established a list

0:22:19in our document here of different things that I'm assuming the two of us like or don't like to eat

0:22:25for Christmas. I don't know. We're going to collaborate on a tier list S-A-B-C-D-F is the

0:22:32tiers in case you've never done this before. I'll put a link in the show notes. If you feel like,

0:22:36what's a tier list? I'll put a link in the show notes to what I think is a classic episode of

0:22:40Upgrade. I will put the video version in the show notes in fact. So you can see us tier list the

0:22:46app icons from the Summer of Fun this year which is a great time. Ah yes, that was a good one.

0:22:49But we're gonna do a tier list of food and I think the only place for me at least that you can start

0:22:57with Christmas is Turkey because here in the UK we don't have Thanksgiving so the Turkey dinner

0:23:05is at Christmas. Ah. Turkey is... I think you could make a case for Turkey to occupy essentially every

0:23:16spot on the tier list. I think different people could make that argument. I personally would say

0:23:23even good Turkey is B tier. I don't know how you feel about Turkey.

0:23:30Uh I'm pro Turkey. Okay. You're in the pro Turkey lobby. I agree with you that Turkey can be

0:23:41bad. It's often overdone so it's dry and awful. But you know what my favorite sandwich maybe is

0:23:51a turkey sandwich. Like especially like sliced turkey breast and like oh you put some other

0:23:59things that we're going to mention later. Ah probably on that sandwich. Boy that's good. I love it.

0:24:03Leftover turkey after Thanksgiving it's great. But it can be made badly. It can be made very badly.

0:24:09And I've spent a long time as I've detailed on this podcast trying to make good Turkey.

0:24:15So I you know I think I kind of came in expecting we would just acclaim this as a great Christmas

0:24:26food but I will go with you. If you're willing to go to B tier I'm willing to park it there

0:24:36because it is so variable. I think there are so many bad Turkey experiences you can have. And

0:24:41also there are just in my opinion so many things better than the turkey on my plate. Like even if

0:24:47the turkey is good I just feel like I can't have it occupy a higher spot based on everything that

0:24:54surrounds the turkey. So now there's foment and discord in the discord right now. Of course.

0:25:02Suggesting that I might be in the pocket of big turkey. And I know that was meant as a joke to

0:25:07TJ but it's almost true because the perhaps the best purveyor of turkeys in America especially

0:25:16like high quality farm raised turkeys is Deestle which is based in my hometown. And I actually went

0:25:24to school with a Deestle. So the heir to the turkey fortune. I am kind of in the pocket of big

0:25:32turkey. I mean I'm not. I have no gain but I was very close at one point I was very close to the

0:25:40pocket of big turkey. Big turkey bias on this show is what we're saying. Big turkey bias.

0:25:47How do you spell that? D-I-E-S-T-E-L. Look at this. As they say meal time snack time anytime.

0:25:58That is not. Nobody thinks of turkey this way. People think of turkey as one time. That's what

0:26:05I like about this right? Meal time snack time anytime. No turkey is one time. You could try

0:26:12Deestle as hard as you like. I'm just gonna say as a representative of big turkey not a week goes by

0:26:19that I do not have turkey. I'm sure you do because you're in the pocket. Everyone else is like hey

0:26:25turkey I know when I'm having that you know. Hey beat it turkey. It's one time. Beat it turkey.

0:26:30In America two times maybe. I'm gonna ask you to bring the next two actually because I can't

0:26:35believe that these would even be up for consideration. Okay well beef like roast a roast

0:26:42or a steak and a ham like how we had the honey baked ham at Stephen's house. Yeah yeah. These

0:26:50are alternate alternate proteins for the for the holiday table for the Christmas table. Ham I can

0:26:56understand more because I've had it as part of Thanksgiving and enjoyed that right so like I

0:27:01can understand if you've had turkey at Thanksgiving that you would have ham so you're not having two

0:27:07turkey dinners a month apart even though as we've already established actually that's fine because

0:27:12you can have turkey for meal time snack time anytime so. Any time. Two turkeys a month apart

0:27:18no problem because it's meal time. Ham I get more. I can't personally imagine a steak with

0:27:26don't you have like a Christmas roast though isn't that a thing and. Roast beef no I mean roast beef

0:27:32is part of a roast dinner which it could be any time of the year any Sunday I get. Yes. Steak I

0:27:37can't imagine so much um roast beef maybe ham I would say I'm not so much of a roast beef fan

0:27:46anyway. Oh interesting. I would say. The king is disappointed in you. Maybe I mean for me I would

0:27:53put if I was putting these just where I would where I put them I would put beef as a C and ham

0:27:58as an A I think ham is a better meal than turkey a better meat than turkey for this but I would like

0:28:04to know what you think. Uh I well we don't have ham in our house because Lauren doesn't eat it.

0:28:12That's the problem. I enjoyed the ham at uh Stephen's house because it it reminded me

0:28:20of when I to to your previous point got so tired of having turkey both holidays

0:28:28that I insisted we do something else for Christmas and we got a ham instead. Um it's fine.

0:28:34Um I I think you have correctly identified my issue here which is if you have a big turkey

0:28:41for Thanksgiving having another turkey which we're gonna do this year it can be very samey

0:28:49and so I have definitely had that where it's like that's too much effort we just had one

0:28:53I'm just gonna make a roast or a steak or something like that or or I suppose a ham but not in my

0:28:59house so I don't know um let's put we don't need to talk about steak we'll just put we'll put beef

0:29:07roast beef on the list I would say at uh C tier. Okay. And ham I think I think uh is is too high

0:29:19I would put that at like B or C tier. What do you think? I would let's put ham at C tier too.

0:29:25Okay. I want to uphold the tradition of turkey. Of the turkey. All right the turkey turkey wins

0:29:31that one I think that's I think you're right I think that's how it should be alternates below.

0:29:36I have what I think is an easy S tier. Okay. Roast potatoes. Roast potatoes. Now how big are these

0:29:45how be are these are these individual little potatoes are these sliced potatoes that are

0:29:49then roasted like uh in chunks what what form do roast potatoes take it's like where we would like

0:29:54to like chop them up so so that a big potato became a bunch of little tiny pieces of potatoes.

0:29:59Tiny. That are then roasted. I wouldn't say tiny. Let's let's imagine a decent a regular potato

0:30:05you'll cut that up into quarters or sixths. Sixths. And that will be roasted and so you end up with

0:30:11this perfect thing that's for me what worst potatoes are some people like to roast them whole

0:30:15I don't understand why you do that like to me. That's a big potato that's a big no you can take

0:30:21smaller potatoes and you can dress them oh yes them yes you can roast small potatoes yes I think

0:30:26this is basically the same parboiling put them in with oil roast them this is my favorite thing

0:30:34on the Christmas meal like interesting without a shadow of a doubt I come from a strong

0:30:40roast potato household. I see that's good. And roast potatoes are very important to me

0:30:45and I've carried on the tradition in my family of good roast potatoes so that that's I actually

0:30:51just right now Jason I made a note in our document I keep a so I keep a list of all the edit points

0:31:01right yeah for the show and I just made one for a crosstalk and instead of writing crosstalk I

0:31:08wrote roast potatoes so you know how much I'm thinking about roast potatoes right now

0:31:14I got them on the mind so I'm all roast all the time including at 44 minutes and 13 seconds in

0:31:21our show recording. Good note good note I appreciate it holiday special note so are you saying S tier

0:31:28I mean I'd put them at A tier easy they're great if if you can't imagine a world for S tier but I

0:31:34think roast potatoes are an S tier material okay let's put them up there they're great they're

0:31:39great but now we have controversy because you know what I like I like mashed potatoes you know like

0:31:46the mashed potatoes you gotta liquify everything you know just think it all in one go I like mashed

0:31:54potatoes I do I do not as much as I like roast potatoes I haven't written mashed potatoes down

0:32:03in our edit note document if that's what you're asking. Yeah that's right well that's that's

0:32:08really the tell I don't even know what we're doing here why don't we just post why don't you just

0:32:12read out your document and that'll tell everything about how you feel about all these things I'd be I

0:32:17feel like mashed potatoes are very very good I love them they don't they don't have to be S tier

0:32:21but I would put them at A or B. I think that mashed potatoes they're a good A I just think

0:32:28potatoes are great right in all forms oh yes I agree and so but I don't I don't think they're

0:32:34as good as roast but I I would put them up there well we'll put them in A tier which brings us to

0:32:42the the other potato related thing that we've got on this list a thing my mother always made

0:32:50the candied yams these are sweet potatoes is this aka sweet potato casserole no this is uh

0:32:58you have you have baked or roasted sweet potato that is then covered in a melted marshmallow

0:33:05right I mean I do love that by the way sweet potatoes and marshmallow I love that now not

0:33:12at Christmas though I mean you've gone a step too far that is a Thanksgiving food in my mind I would

0:33:18not have that on the same plate this is my Christmas meal this is one of my childhood

0:33:24foods that I have I have excommunicated from my life from my holiday plate I'm fine with that

0:33:31like I've only ever had them as an adult and I've had them like three times I could imagine every

0:33:36year if I'm eating this every year I don't think I could do it so I put it down as a is it an F

0:33:43I doubt it it's I mean I have a very strong contender for F later on and I don't think

0:33:50you're gonna want candy jams in there I do too let's put it a D yeah I'm gonna now pick I'm gonna

0:33:57talk about my favorite vegetable side from my Christmas dinner maple glaze root vegetables I

0:34:04would choose parsnips and carrots for this as a little extra now this is the stuff right so

0:34:10they're roasted first they're roasted in oil and maple syrup and it's so good so good so even even

0:34:19ten years ago I would I would be decrying this but I I've discovered over the last ten years that if

0:34:25you roast terrible vegetables they're edible yes that's the best way to do it yeah I've just got

0:34:32to just got a point out in the discord this is incredible to me Zach says Mike's picks are very

0:34:37British what else would they be you know I'm not I'm not eating an American Christmas dinner you

0:34:42know like come on I'm eating I'm eating a good British Christmas dinner so you know the King

0:34:48came over and he was like I spoke to Tim now I'm here to tell you how to do yeah I love these again

0:34:56s-tier no they are not made a tier I would say yes because look I like carrots and I like parsnips

0:35:04I like them they're fine they're great roasted but you know how they're even made better they put

0:35:07maple yeah yeah I know I get behind that like I've eaten these things roasted and they're and

0:35:14they're edible and I believe it or not like the fact that I can eat a carrot at all I'm never

0:35:17gonna like carrots yeah I find it ironic that I actually prefer broccoli to carrots when they're

0:35:25roasted which broccoli was literally like my least favorite broccoli and cauliflower and now I

0:35:31actually like them quite a bit when they're roasted olive oil little salt carrots I would

0:35:37never say I love them but they're edible and parsnips same they're a little more potato like

0:35:47I guess so that's good you know Mike I'm never gonna really get behind this I don't but I don't

0:35:55hate them so what do I do I mean I don't you know you would eat them I would eat okay here's what

0:36:03here's where we are with this as the plate plates are getting passed around yeah and there's a plate

0:36:08with maple glazed parsnips and carrots on it mm-hmm and it comes to me now classic Jason move and a

0:36:16lot of these events is just keep on passing that plate yeah yeah would I take a little bit of parsnip

0:36:23and carrot and put it on my plate I would would I eat it I would when that plate comes back to me

0:36:29again or somebody holds it up and says anybody want more parsnips and carrots would I ask for

0:36:34more no here's what I'll say is going on what you're saying that plate is given to you right

0:36:43and they're on there like you've been given the plate no already on there you've got to have some

0:36:47vegetables right because otherwise someone's gonna say I guess I have no vegetables sure these are

0:36:52the vegetables you're gonna want no the number one vegetable is yet to be picked here but but

0:36:57nobody depends I think I know where you're going and that one depends okay maple glazed parsnips

0:37:03and carrots you're always gonna enjoy it because it's at least no I'm not you're always gonna

0:37:09enjoy it I'm not okay see I mean if you're offering see I'll take see you seem so upset

0:37:17about the vegetables that I feel like I can't get you to go to be no I'll tell you because you love

0:37:23them all right let's go would be because you love them even though I do like I said I would eat them

0:37:27okay and you love them and I would eat them and I figure that will average that out to a B all right

0:37:31speaking of vegetables we got for me green beans or the classic American green bean

0:37:39casserole loved by Midwesterners everywhere okay Mike I'm gonna make my pitch for it are you ready

0:37:46I'm ready green beans are the worst and I put this on the list so I could say green beans stink

0:37:55green bean casserole you're like we put a bunch of stuff on the green beans you know what you did

0:37:58you put stuff on bad stuff like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what you put on them green beans

0:38:04are awful down with green beans thumbs down what a terrible terrible vegetable the worst

0:38:10have Merry Christmas everybody we I like green beans I gotta tell you I like green beans

0:38:21I've never had a green green green bean casserole in the way in which you describe it to my knowledge

0:38:29so really I cannot speak to green bean casserole well let's let's let's take a tour through the

0:38:37green bean casserole recipe okay born in the Campbell's soup test kitchen in 1955 it has

0:38:43stood the test of time boy has it just five staple ingredients and 10 minutes of prep no wonder it's

0:38:47a beloved family favorite one can of cream of mushroom soup no thank you half a cup of milk a

0:38:55teaspoon of soy sauce four cups of cooked cut green beans and then over the top you sprinkle

0:39:02french fried onions and bake it in a casserole dish I don't like the soup here why we I don't

0:39:10why is this well in the 50s Mike in America all food got covered in mushroom cream of mushroom

0:39:16soup that was I like the idea of green beans and I like the idea of fried onions I don't like the

0:39:24sound of mushroom soup yeah yeah mmm Midwesterners I love you I have friends who are Midwesterners

0:39:31mm-hmm this ain't it I'm sorry it's okay then we had it we had a dish that we had frequently when

0:39:39I was a kid that was chicken and little little soft onions and cheese and green bean casserole

0:39:48or not green bean casserole and cream of mushroom soup cream mushroom soup and it was it was pretty

0:39:55good but like again I'm reminded of the fact that my mother is from Western Pennsylvania which is

0:40:01technically I would say again point of contention the Midwest very Midwestern if it's not the

0:40:06Midwest Western Pennsylvania and that was a very Midwestern kind of dish put cream of mushroom soup

0:40:12in it where are we putting this Mike please make it go down low as low as possible I've never had

0:40:20this I don't like the sound of it so I'm happy to put it in F which is a holiday I've never had it

0:40:29all right so I'm going on how that sounds and just trust me option trust me okay trust me I will

0:40:36I trust that bring that brings us to Brussels sprouts yeah okay okay first off Brussels sprouts

0:40:44have a terrible reputation but so bad little little known that over the last 30 years 20 years

0:40:50they have bred Brussels sprouts to be less bitter they've literally changed what the vegetable is

0:40:57because people refused it and modern Brussels sprouts are actually pretty good they're not as

0:41:03bitter and you roast them and they're tasty and you can they are great roasted they are great

0:41:08roasted with a little balsamic vinegar there's a dish that we often make for the holidays where

0:41:13you actually use some garlic and some sriracha and you make kind of Asian influence it's from

0:41:21a it's from a restaurant in in Austin Texas actually is where it came from and Moises told

0:41:26me about it but like they're like soy garlic sriracha Brussels sprouts Chris kind of crispy

0:41:33because they're roasted they're so good Brussels sprouts I if I'll tell you this is how much I've

0:41:38changed as an eater is if they're Brussels sprouts as an appetizer on a menu at a restaurant I go to

0:41:44we absolutely order them like every time because Brussels sprouts roasted with some stuff on them

0:41:52some cheese or whatever the dishes they're great I I'm completely bought in on Brussels sprouts now

0:41:59I don't like Brussels sprouts on their own really I kind of do I don't like love them but I really

0:42:07like them with bacon like that that for me Brussels sprouts and bacon is what opened my mind to see I

0:42:14can't I can't do that in my in my household I can see why that would be good but there are so many

0:42:20ways this is the thing is like that we have multiple ways of preparing very good tasty

0:42:24Brussels sprouts would suggest to me that they should go pretty high now I can't imagine breaking

0:42:33the B ranking to be honest oh I think Brussels sprouts are a tier I really alright go for it

0:42:39put them in okay I'm gonna put them in stuffing now well if you're if you're gonna have a bird

0:42:45you're gonna have to have stuffing right that's theory the theory anyway yeah I don't cook

0:42:51stuffing in the turkey now British stuffing tends to have sausage meat in it hmm interesting and

0:43:00it's real good basically deconstruct a sausage and add some bread to it or like a stuffing mix

0:43:09maybe some onion I love stuffing I think it's fantastic it tastes super good I think it is a

0:43:17honestly stuffing it's my favorite meat as well interesting Christmas dinner yeah it's real good

0:43:25real real good so first off a health note you shouldn't actually make the stuffing in the

0:43:31bird because there's cross-contamination that's potential and you could get sick so you should

0:43:35just make it and yeah I like stuffing I don't love it but although you just described a stuffing that

0:43:44sounds a lot of fun too I think it's good I think I think it's a I think it is maybe the best bread

0:43:51related option as well in some ways to have a you want a little a little starchy kind of thing there

0:44:00I mean you got your potatoes but like you can get like rolls or bread or something but stuffing is

0:44:04good so where should we put stuffing I would say it's an a-tier I'll go with that I'll let you do

0:44:09that I'm not I have no objections to that but I would like to add another a-tier sausage friend

0:44:16to my to my plate here now this is what we call pigs in blankets which is Americans think of pigs

0:44:25in blankets are what we would call a sausage roll pigs in blankets to us are little sausages wrapped

0:44:31in bacon right where pig in blankets for us are little hot dogs in a pastry or a even that's not

0:44:39what I would consider a sausage roll but yes I've seen this before but let's say little sausages

0:44:45cocktail sausages as they're sometimes known yeah wrapped in pieces of bacon excellent just excellent

0:44:51just a great time give me some pigs in blankets and you have that holidays you have that holidays

0:44:57yes part of Christmas yeah sausage pigs pigs wrapped in pigs the blanket is is more pig is

0:45:03what you're saying I will say in in England it seems like while you know we Turkey is the

0:45:10duckies you know it's like oh it's the turkey dinner there's really a lot of pig on the plate

0:45:15to be honest I say it's a lot now I know this is gonna be complicated for you what kind of bacon

0:45:20is this I have to ask that question because bacon can be different things tends to be streaky bacon

0:45:24because it's got to be thin right right so it's more like American bacon yeah it's more like this

0:45:28we're good at wrapping things in bacon too yeah because the streaky bacon is is more wrappable

0:45:32mm-hmm well okay um I'm willing to put this I'm willing to put the concept of pigs and blankets

0:45:40up high if if you will acknowledge that it could be either kind because I actually do kind of like

0:45:45an American pig in a blanket sure I mean a hot dog sounds fantastic like that that sounds fantastic

0:45:54yeah a a tear oh let's just do it I mean I feel like we're building a great dinner sure all right

0:46:02well I'm gonna ruin it let's ruin it what's our next item I demand this is this is created last

0:46:08year when you told me that story so let's put it in there aspect whoa here I have had as part of

0:46:17remaining meat inside gelatin so it's meat and vegetables suspended inside a pork gelatin one

0:46:25of one of the traumas of my life I apologize to everybody in Eastern Europe but just the worst

0:46:31I'm sorry that you have to go through this terrible well there's there's no tear below F so F tier it

0:46:38is F I love I love that aspect and green bean casserole are sharing a cell that's how I hope

0:46:44this would go I don't understand this next item so why don't you tell me about it so chocolate is a

0:46:51big thing at Christmas little you know you got a little treats around the house right you just like

0:46:57you're eating them every now and then a little chopper yeah a little chocolate was Cadbury they

0:47:01are the purveyor of good chocolate and they produce lots of there are a lot of companies

0:47:07do this but I like the every ones and there's a couple of different things where they're

0:47:10essentially assortment boxes of individually wrapped chocolates and my favorite and it is

0:47:17like a classic for me is from when I was a kid they make something called Cadbury roses you only

0:47:22buy these at Christmas and they're a little various chocolate you might get just a derrimac one maybe

0:47:27one with nuts in it one with a like a strawberry sausage a strawberry filling maybe an orange cream

0:47:39filling it is just a good time this is to me an S tier part of Christmas just the in general idea

0:47:46of boxes of chocolate that are just open that you can freely eat at any point in the day just a

0:47:54great time I'm gonna suggest that we've just put chocolate in the S tier that is absolutely cuz we

0:48:00have we have similar things here for different holidays but also at Christmas they're like

0:48:05Hershey's kisses no don't write me about Hershey's but like again just like the idea that there are

0:48:09various kinds of chocolate that are just around is great whatever chocolate you want to me novelties

0:48:15Hershey's tastes like chalk so I cannot well you can't spell chocolate without chalk chocolate

0:48:22done I don't like chocolate but I don't choose it I choose good chocolate but I also don't mind it

0:48:29it's like fast-food chocolate it's fine whatever okay really quickly we're gonna get through the

0:48:33desserts here pumpkin and or sweet potato pie I love it I think it's necessary I put it up at

0:48:40very high having one of those Maggie kind of pies I love it what do you think hey Tia I like to do

0:48:47it can pile up it's good sweet potato pie is just like pumpkin pie except I think better ginger

0:48:53snaps or gingerbread S tier I agree ginger is the best gingerbread is the best and again this is the

0:49:00time of year where where there's just like ginger stuff laying around for you to I build a red house

0:49:05every year it's my favorite things you know you know the story right about how I terrorize my

0:49:10children now I told you that sorry but tell me again yeah yeah cuz they wanted to eat the

0:49:15gingerbread house so I got a hammer and I smashed it and my children like a legend for all time and

0:49:22finally eggnog I really like eggnog but it's complicated you know I don't I actually you know

0:49:32what Mike I've never had eggnog because it sounds so disgusting that's the thing so eggnog sounds

0:49:38disgusting tastes great in my opinion with alcohol why don't we see tear it because it is complicated

0:49:47even though I was complicated okay so we conclude the the Christmas food tier list S tier roast

0:49:54potatoes chocolate and ginger snaps or gingerbread we could stop there quite frankly odd plate though

0:50:02you can't stop there right you're not allowed to stop there but then let's mix in the a-tier

0:50:08mashed potatoes Brussels sprouts stuffing pigs and blankets and pumpkin pie or sweet potato

0:50:14pie B tier turkey maple glazed parsnips and carrots for Mike C tier the other the alternates

0:50:22roast beef ham as well as eggnog D tier candied yams and F tier Sharon a space in the dungeon green

0:50:31bean casserole and aspect the worst plate boo put the yams and the casserole in the aspect together

0:50:38and hand that to a person you don't like your mean old uncle but the but the yams in the casserole

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0:51:56oh at Christmas time you'll see me watching Christmas movies and TV and your dear friends

0:52:05at upgrade know the best shows the best shows the best shows and movies now now what would

0:52:14that what would a special episode be without a draft Christmas content draft favorite TV

0:52:21shows favorite movies of the Christmas season that we like do they have to be Christmas

0:52:26movies I don't know we'll find out I suppose Jason what's your first pick a Charlie Brown

0:52:33Christmas very good it is the soundtrack alone I've already listened to multiple times and

0:52:41I will try to find time to watch a Charlie Brown Christmas it's short it's sweet it's

0:52:46very Charlie Brown it's the most Charlie Brown peanuts thing that there could possibly be

0:52:50and it's a it's a classic of my childhood so and it's on Apple TV and hi-def so easy

0:52:57for me to get to so Charlie Brown we had the family over at the weekend we were doing like

0:53:01a little Christmas thing so we're gonna be together at Christmas so we just came together

0:53:04and someone asked everyone to go around pick their favorite Christmas movie to which started

0:53:10a debate of the home of home alone versus home alone oh that was the debate actually

0:53:15it's not the debate you think okay thank goodness yeah home alone versus home alone too and

0:53:20I after having the spirited conversation came down on home alone too as being the more Christmassy

0:53:29of the home alone movies okay okay I mean any home alone too as well is the reason that

0:53:36everybody outside of America wants to go to New York at Christmas oh this is interesting

0:53:42yeah growing up everyone wanted to do Christmas in New York and I believe it's because of

0:53:47home alone too you know one year at Macworld Expo in New York we stayed at a hotel where

0:53:53they were shooting a Christmas movie so it's July and the entire place is dressed like

0:53:57Christmas it was so strange that was made in Manhattan starring Jennifer Lopez I believe

0:54:03oh wow wow made MA ID in Manhattan but it was like of course back when they made a hallmark

0:54:10Christmas movies as regular movies yeah basically before they just became cable TV what many

0:54:16people would call the glory days of cinema the best days of all I so my pick is gonna

0:54:24be something that my wife introduced me to that I had never seen before and I think legitimately

0:54:29is my favorite Christmas movie now and it's a classic and I highly recommend it to people

0:54:35it moves along fast it's an old movie but it's super enjoyable I just I think you would

0:54:41like it I think it I think it plays well to a modern audience there's there's good jokes

0:54:45there's a good message it's miracle on 34th Street that was a huge surprise for me when

0:54:51we did it as Mike at the movies yeah I did not think that I was going to enjoy that movie

0:54:58because it's an old black and white Christmas movie but it has some twists and turns it

0:55:03it really does and it's and jokes I mean there's there's there's also jokes it's not the movie

0:55:09you think it's gonna be when it starts to where it's really not it's not sappy or anything

0:55:14no right truly great movie it was very high up on my little shortlist here I'll put it

0:55:20I'll put it this way to the guy who plays Santa Ana nominated for an Academy Award okay

0:55:25it's a good movie yeah it's a very very good movie it's a very very good movie has a lot

0:55:32to say about customer service by the way which I think is interesting for upgrade listeners

0:55:35a lot to do about how companies treat their customers anyway go ahead I'm gonna do it

0:55:40I'm gonna I'm gonna settle the debate and I'm gonna pick Die Hard Die Hard Christmas

0:55:44movie I think honestly I think anything can be a Christmas movie I agree at Christmas

0:55:52I agree 100% any this movie has Christmas in it it has Christmas in it ho ho ho now I

0:55:58have a machine yes and what could be more Christmassy than getting rid of terrorists

0:56:05from a building you know like is there anything more in the spirit of Christmas I don't think

0:56:10so anything so yeah anything could be a Christmas movie if you watch it at Christmas I know

0:56:14that this is some people deeply disagree with this but I just don't I don't agree I think

0:56:19Die Hard has because if Die Hard was not a Christmas movie it has become one exactly agreed

0:56:26yeah 100% that's a great pick another I would say latter-day classic and I know that people

0:56:35don't particularly like well that's not true a lot of people like this actor some people

0:56:40can't stand this actor and other stuff he's been in but I would say this is the perfect

0:56:46perfect Will Ferrell performance yes I agree 100% elf this is like there aren't many modern

0:56:55clap like right Christmas movies that get added to what would be the pantheon of like

0:57:00this is it elf is one of them elf is a great movie a great Christmas movie the story gets

0:57:08a little weird towards the end but that's fine I think it's well yeah there's there

0:57:14I think you're probably referring to the moment where it sort of becomes a Lord of the Rings

0:57:18parody which is very strange like why is the is the the the NYPD suddenly like a monster

0:57:32that is riding evil horses and like it's it gets it gets real weird but that's okay because

0:57:37then the spirit of Christmas comes upon us all and it's great so yes it's a great movie

0:57:45I'm now gonna do the thing about movie that is now a Christmas movie for me but it's not

0:57:52a Christmas movie at all I watched for the first time at Christmas last year frozen and

0:57:59now frozen is a Christmas movie to me and I will be watching it again this year and

0:58:04I loved it at Christmas I think frozen fits very well for Christmas because it's there's

0:58:10ice and snow everywhere and it's just great I would probably say frozen one and two I'm

0:58:15probably gonna watch both for them but yeah that I think the frozen movies are good movies

0:58:20to watch at Christmas but I understand many parents have watched these movies many times

0:58:25all year but the first time I'd seen them was last Christmas and I think I want to make

0:58:30them a Christmas tradition in my household all right I'm gonna go a little bit off the

0:58:36board now still a little bit unexpected mm-hmm but a it's actually a New Year's Eve tradition

0:58:45for us okay but it's a silly silly movie that you can watch anytime and I'm gonna go back

0:58:51further back into the past even then miracle on 34th Street whoa this is a movie that makes

0:58:58my son crack up and he is a child born in 2004 and yet a movie from 1933 totally worked

0:59:12on him it's absurd it's a great way to ring in the new year but you can also watch it

0:59:16on Christmas night or Christmas Eve it is the Marx Brothers duck soup I've never seen

0:59:22this but I know of it it's ridiculous it's great it actually has political commentary

0:59:27it came out in 1933 it's about the rise of fascism but it's also just wall-to-wall bits

0:59:34just comedy jokes comedy bits that just repeat and are and they kill so duck soup is a New

0:59:40Year's Eve tradition for us but I'm gonna I'm gonna call that part of the holiday season

0:59:46and throw it in there it's great it really is like watch it it's it's short too it's

0:59:52like 70 minutes long I mean it's like really short but it's packed with jokes it ends in

0:59:57an absurd way that is I think intentional in terms of their message about war and against

1:00:04fascism and it's great duck soup the Marx Brothers I'm gonna go back to the kind of

1:00:11traditional Christmas fair and pick a movie that I don't necessarily expect all the people

1:00:16like but I loved it as a kid so it warms my heart when I see it now and that is Arnold

1:00:21Schwarzenegger's jingle all the way oh nice why do you like that movie I've never seen

1:00:28it do you know I don't know why right but like I watched it a lot as a kid so this is

1:00:32Arnold Schwarzenegger plays a dad who is essentially not very good because he I don't think he's

1:00:44very if I remember is a very attentive dad and he's tasked with buying an action figure

1:00:50called turbo man for his son and he goes too late and he doesn't get turbo man he misses

1:01:01out and then through a series of events in which he tries to procure a turbo man gets

1:01:10caught up in a parade and becomes turbo man it's incredible and ridiculous and very that

1:01:19yes full spoilers for the movie jingle all the way yeah if you've been waiting to watch

1:01:25it now Mike's around it for you sorry it's great it's just stupid and great it's like

1:01:31I don't know as in the 90s I guess when just Arnold Schwarzenegger made these kinds of movies

1:01:36and this is just one of those it's basically the type of movie that the rock used to make

1:01:42as well you know like that kind of like we're gonna put a big muscly guy in a peculiar role

1:01:49sin bads in it too and that isn't the what is that effect West everyone thinks in bad

1:01:58made that movie but he didn't make a Mandela effect right yeah Sinbad was actually in this

1:02:03movie also starring Phil Hartman Rita Wilson Jim Belushi is it Sinbad or is it Shaquille

1:02:10O'Neal that they thought was Sinbad or Sinbad I think it's something like that Sinbad is

1:02:14somehow involved in the Mandela effect but he was actually in this movie yeah that's

1:02:22good that's good yeah or is it kazam is a movie starring Shaquille O'Neal as a genie

1:02:29but people remember it as being called something else and with Sinbad and it's just something

1:02:34like that brain thing all right for my next pick I could I could be pretty generic here

1:02:42but I'll be a little bit less generic so since 2005 there has been a Christmas or New Year's

1:02:47special for Doctor Who almost every single year because it's a British thing right British

1:02:51TV American TV has basically fled or put football on now for Christmas but British TV I came

1:03:00to realize it is a thing right like everybody puts the special everythings on at Christmas

1:03:07and so they do Doctor Who Christmas specials which are great but I have two that I want

1:03:11to recommend more broadly that are my favorites I used to have one and now I have two there's

1:03:16a Christmas Carol which is got Michael Gambon is the star of it it's with Matt Smith as

1:03:24the 11th doctor the it's the ghosts of Christmas past present and future are appeared to Michael

1:03:31Gambon via time travel because it's they got a time machine it's so such a good riff on

1:03:39a Christmas Carol it's fun it is exactly what a Christmas special should be yeah excellently

1:03:45done and then the one that I've added to the list is with Peter Capaldi also written by

1:03:50Steven Moffat last Christmas which was a few years later and that one's got Nick Frost

1:03:56in it as Santa it's got a good cat it's got a good cast it is fun and bittersweet and

1:04:04also scary it is it riffs on alien but in a Christmas way and I love that I think it's

1:04:12just a great episode so I actually have a Plex playlist of Doctor Who Christmas specials

1:04:17I'll just put them on in the background and they just play all 12 of them or whatever

1:04:20the Christmas special is a big thing in the UK and Doctor Who is one of the shows that

1:04:25participates in this tradition it's a good vibe that some of them are better than others

1:04:29but that those are a good vibe and I'm looking forward to this year's Moffat is coming back

1:04:34to write another Christmas special because apparently Russell Davis is like I can't write

1:04:38Christmas specials don't make me and so they bring they brought Moffat back to do another

1:04:42one I'm looking forward to that too but those two are the best

1:04:47I'm gonna pick an episode of television that is Christmas themed that you probably shouldn't

1:04:51watch at Christmas but it is oh best episodes of television I've ever seen so I feel like

1:04:56it needs to be included and that is the bear fishes oh yeah yeah this is the the holiday

1:05:07feast with the the seven fishes of the nine fishes or whatever yeah that where that you

1:05:12know ends with a car smashing into the house spoilers sorry spoilers for the bear spoilers

1:05:20for the bear they're all they're all incredibly emotionally damaged I don't think that's much

1:05:23of a spoiler for the bear yeah if you want to feel very very incredibly tense over Christmas

1:05:30watch this episode of television it's maybe a perfect piece of television I don't think

1:05:36that it will get you in the Christmas spirit but I feel like I couldn't make this list

1:05:40of Christmas content about including it it's great I'm gonna go with the Muppets Christmas

1:05:47Carol oh good that it's a good one you know there should be more movies that are just

1:05:55the Muppets doing a thing because everything's better with Muppets in it I don't understand

1:06:01like this is a movie that is themed around the Muppets no and about Muppets are in con

1:06:07but the Muppets are just the characters but they don't need to be about the Muppets if

1:06:12that I don't I don't understand why they just don't do every year there's a thing where

1:06:16there's a classic something that is being made by the Muppets and the thing is they'll

1:06:20add jokes it'll be fun it'll be light and the Muppets are in it and I don't that is

1:06:25a franchise that's really been mismanaged by Disney I did an incomparable episode where

1:06:29I pitched a movie that was Disney's Marvel's Muppets the Avengers or something like that

1:06:34Disney's Muppets Marvel's the Avengers where the idea is yeah just do a Muppets Marvel

1:06:38movie and it would be funny and like why not like why not do that why not why not take

1:06:44they make live-action versions the quote-unquote live-action versions of all these classic

1:06:48animated Disney movies I do not know why they do not also make Muppet versions of classic

1:06:53Disney movies and Marvel and Star Wars like it would be so fun and I think people would

1:06:59like them and I think it would be good sort of family fair and holiday fair but that's

1:07:04my rant about the Muppets I'll just say Muppets Christmas Carol it's a Christmas Carol but

1:07:08with the Muppets and it's good it's really good so sure Muppets put it on Muppets Christmas

1:07:14Carol for my last pick love actually oh okay all right you know I know at this point that

1:07:26movie is so played out right like I get it it's like memed into oblivion but it's there

1:07:32was a time in British cinema when movies were like this it's like yes like this is like

1:07:42a British romantic comedy it is and also it's worth remembering because love actually was

1:07:50so successful it created a genre of let's get loads of people and put them in a movie

1:07:56and everyone's having independent stories that mix together this was the movie that

1:08:02popularized that format yeah although Richard Curtis had been doing it already yeah right

1:08:08because he did yeah winnings in a funeral and Notting Hill and I mean but yes this is

1:08:12the one that was the huge one yes like the Richard Curtis like movies are all great but

1:08:18they were still like interesting people together but what love actually did that I think was

1:08:22unique was like here are like six different stories and sometimes they move in and out

1:08:26where it's kind of like an anthology in one movie where like say something like Four Weddings

1:08:31and Notting Hill there they have a more of a of a typical structure of a movie like you're

1:08:36telling a story yes it's a singular story and we're following one or two characters

1:08:41through the whole time yeah love actually is like an anthology almost of little short

1:08:48scenes and it's and it's the cast is so good and it's like good classic and

1:08:55contemporary at the time actors like here a nightly for example who was very new in

1:09:02her career then like and it's also very funny and very well written and and like the movie

1:09:08yes it is played out but if you have not watched love actually in a long time I recommend going

1:09:13back to that movie because I think it will surprise you how good it is considering these

1:09:18days how prevalent it is I just watched it last year and it you know there's parts of

1:09:24it where I'm like I don't know about that but the the it's got a good vibe and the cast

1:09:30is bananas everywhere you look there's somebody that you will recognize even people who were

1:09:36not famous at the time you will be like wait a second that's January Jones from Madman

1:09:42or that's the that's Thomas Sangster who's been in a million things but he was just the

1:09:46kid back then but he's been he was in Game of Thrones right like it everywhere you turn

1:09:51why is Billy Bob Thornton in this movie well I guess he's the president the United States

1:09:55it just keeps going it's it's a yeah that's a wild movie good pick and and it really was

1:10:01like its thing was hey look at all these people like that was the poster the poster was just

1:10:06look at all these people and then there ended up being even more of them it's a great movie

1:10:13this episode is brought to you by Lex Games now we got to talk about Lex for doing all

1:10:19of the incredible work that Lex has done in creating these jingles in this episode and

1:10:23in our Summer of Fun episode we thank Lex and I would like to tell you all about Lex

1:10:27Games as a thank you to Lex and so who doesn't love word games monsters that's who and this

1:10:33isn't the holiday season for monsters it's the holiday season of joy and gift giving

1:10:38so give yourself the gift of joy with Lex.Games Lex.Games is an iOS app and website with nine

1:10:45daily word games if you like games that are like word or connection of crossword puzzles

1:10:50you will like Lex.Games probably but for everyone games include collections lexicogs bio vowel

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1:11:03control which is a whole lot like mastermind unless you're a lawyer in which case look

1:11:08over there but for everyone else Lex.Games is a fun collection of mostly free and fully

1:11:14ad free word games pony up a cheap subscription for a couple of specific games or just play

1:11:19the seven free ones they don't judge the Lex of Lex.Games is Lex.Friedman the same

1:11:24guy who's written all these incredible jingles for us and there are no fewer than three songs

1:11:29written by Lex inside the Lex.Games app so if you like Lex's songs there's three

1:11:34more if you don't like them there's only three even better this Lex isn't the other

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1:11:47to find the website and app for iPhone and iPad and since every puzzle is written by

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1:11:58is Lex.Games/relay or in song form Lex.Games/relay of course that copy was written by Lex of

1:12:08course because it's excellent thank you Lex.Of course it was well you know what it's time

1:12:13for now Mike?I do indeed.

1:12:40Thank you Lex.Jingles all the way.First question comes from Elizabeth when is it okay to put

1:12:49Christmas decorations out and when should they have to come down?Well in the US I would

1:12:57say Thanksgiving is a good barrier to Christmas decorations in the US I would not put them

1:13:02out before the day after Thanksgiving Black Friday I guess and they like I think I think

1:13:08they should probably come down after New Year's Day there's a little bit of a like New Year's

1:13:14Day and Christmas are on a Wednesday this year you've got till the next weekend but

1:13:21then they should by that next weekend they should be gone.I'd say that's pretty fair

1:13:25I would say like we don't have the barrier here right so things can get smushy I think

1:13:30in general December 1st is a good time to go up if not the very end of November but

1:13:35I think December 1st is a good time to go up.Please not November 1st right please not

1:13:38the day after Halloween it's too much it makes it less special if a whole one sixth of the

1:13:43year has Christmas in it.I agree.Yeah so somewhere between Black Friday and the first of December

1:13:49through somewhere around New Year's but also you know you're busy on New Year's if you

1:13:54leave it till the next weekend I'm not gonna judge.We put up our tree way too early this

1:13:58year because we were going away at the end of November and at the first week of December

1:14:02so I didn't want to come home to there being no Christmas tree so we put it up a bit early

1:14:06but that's the reason why but I would usually go into December 1st and I agree the weekend

1:14:11that is immediately following New Year's is the right time to take it down.That's the

1:14:14time you take the stuff down maybe if you're bored on New Year's Day you start to like

1:14:18pack things away but certainly but you can give yourself till the next weekend.Matthew

1:14:22asks what is the most low tech thing that you do for the holidays?Oh low tech.I have

1:14:29my answer.Okay give your answer.You can think of one.Sure.So I mentioned it earlier but

1:14:33every year I build a gingerbread house like that's something that I love to do we'll

1:14:37buy like a kit and I'll make the gingerbread like actually bake the gingerbread.It's easy

1:14:43they give you all the things you know like all the and it's all you just put them all

1:14:46together I mean I say it's easy I had to order a second kit because I was I was I was

1:14:52halfway through getting things ready and my mom called me and then I was like I ended

1:14:57up not getting all of the liquids in at the same time so I couldn't bring the gingerbread

1:15:02together as a whole thing I was very upset there's another kit come in I'm gonna build

1:15:05it anyway you don't need my trauma I like to build the gingerbread house build it you

1:15:12know build everything with icing and then decorate the whole thing I love doing this

1:15:17it's something that I love to do and I am very excited to share this with my daughter

1:15:22in the future that's gonna be a lovely thing and I'm happy that it's already like one

1:15:26of the traditions in our house is that I build a gingerbread house and I very much look forward

1:15:30to taking that into the future it's the most low-tech thing that I do in the holidays.

1:15:34Don't smash it with a hammer. Unless you want to traumatize them I guess. I mean I thought

1:15:39it was funny and it's like remember when daddy smashed that thing with the hammer it's like

1:15:43oh boy okay sorry I just thought it was funny. It is funny. Maybe if I used like a comedy

1:15:49mallet like a rubber mallet or something it would have been fun. Maybe if you would have

1:15:52like put tinsel around the hammer it might have made it more Christmas-y. But I brandished a hammer and smashed it.

1:15:57Gingerbread house. Anyway yeah I would say baking and cooking are the things that are

1:16:02low-tech that I do so I make those ginger molasses cookies every year that are really

1:16:07good. I have made some they're almost gone I'm probably gonna make more if there's enough

1:16:13ginger for it because they have lots of ginger in it but they're great and I'll do some other

1:16:20you know cookie baking or I've got a bunch of like cookie cutters so sometimes we'll

1:16:24do a round of like sugar cookies because you can cut those out into fun little shapes and

1:16:28then put like sprinkles or icing on them and decorate them and you know they're fine and

1:16:33they're and they're fun they're fun to do and that's a fun thing to do when like the

1:16:36kids are home or whatever. Cooking at Christmas is just a fun thing to do. So that's my answer.

1:16:44When I Sam says when I was seven years old I designed a robot to help my mom with the

1:16:48housework and asked Father Christmas for it for Christmas. I got a PlayStation and said

1:16:52if you could ask Father Christmas for one non-existent tech product what would it be?

1:16:57Woah what do you have here? It is a similar answer but this is for me not for my mom.

1:17:03I absolutely would want it to be a non-human looking house cleaning robot. Like if I could

1:17:10have one thing technology-wise that doesn't exist something that could clean my whole

1:17:17home for me without me needing to do it is an incredible idea. Right there like we're

1:17:22not just talking about a Roomba. I'm like this thing is dusting it's straightening up.

1:17:26It's picking things up and cleaning underneath like it's doing the whole nine yards you know.

1:17:30I agree I agree the the I'm gonna go with you on this because I think this is right

1:17:34a robot butler and ironically I just wrote I just read a book about a robot butler and

1:17:40a robot apocalypse which I highly recommend it's called Service Model by Adrian Tchaikovsky

1:17:45it might be appearing in the Upgrady's but a robot butler that does not look like a human

1:17:51being but what you said is exactly right so it knows not to be around where I am. It's

1:17:57straightening it's picking up dishes and rinsing them off and putting them in the dishwasher

1:18:02it's making it's setting the tea robot and maybe even bringing me the tea hey why not

1:18:07it's it's a cleaning up it's emptying the cat box it's doing all of those things so

1:18:13that I wouldn't have to do it because wouldn't it be great to have a robot butler.

1:18:15But absolutely does not look like a human. That is so important to me.

1:18:20No one of the things in Service Model is that the robot who's the narrator talks about

1:18:24how they have different they go through different cycles of the fashion of a robot and it's

1:18:29like oh and then we look very human and then people found that disturbing and I think he's

1:18:32like almost like a clown mask where it's like a face but it's just got like like dots like

1:18:39a kid drew it which is even more terrifying. I don't want a human form at all.

1:18:45No thank you. Maybe you already answered this but aaaah asks what are the ideal kinds of

1:18:53cookies to leave out for Santa?

1:18:56Oh wow I would probably okay it depends on who the audience is here if you want to make

1:19:04Santa happy you leave Santa some of those really nice ginger molasses cookies and probably

1:19:11like a drink like bourbon or something that's what Phil Michaels always left out a bourbon

1:19:18for Santa when his daughter was younger. If you want to make the kids happy you put out

1:19:23milk and sugar cookies that are probably shaped like I don't know reindeer Santa snowmen whatever

1:19:28and then whatever Santa doesn't eat.

1:19:31Wait would Santa be happy to eat Santa cookies?

1:19:36Maybe it depends on if he views it as cannibalism or as branding.

1:19:41Okay.

1:19:44I encourage parents to put out your favorite cookie and your favorite beverage for Santa

1:19:50because Santa anything Santa leaves behind you can have.

1:19:55Yeah Santa likes what you like that's the good thing about Santa.

1:19:59Santa is a magical being who likes what you like yes.

1:20:03Elizabeth asks do you prefer snow or no snow for Christmas and Jason have you ever had

1:20:08a white Christmas?

1:20:10I have no preference here because I have mostly lived in a place that doesn't have snow growing

1:20:15up we did have snow occasionally my 1988 Christmas which was my freshman year in college it snowed

1:20:25on Christmas Eve so one time we had a white Christmas and that was great although you

1:20:34know what maybe my favorite Christmas was when we were in Hawaii for Christmas mele

1:20:41kaliki maka as they say that was pretty sweet.

1:20:46Christmas day?

1:20:47On Hawaiian Christmas Day that was pretty great Hawaiian Christmas Day was also pretty

1:20:50awesome so I'm gonna say no snow but if I were somewhere that could get snow I would

1:20:55probably prefer snow because it was beautiful I always wanted there to be snow on Christmas

1:20:59Day as a kid and it never happened I thought it never would and then my freshman year in

1:21:03college it happened.

1:21:06I think that the Christmas season is made that little bit nicer when there is some snow

1:21:13during it I think it is very fitting.

1:21:16Of course.

1:21:17I've never had to my memory I have never had like what you would consider a true white

1:21:24Christmas I have had there has been snow at Christmas but like proper like snow at Christmas

1:21:29I've not had that but there's been around that time and I like a bit of snow I like

1:21:34a bit of snow.

1:21:35Aaron asks do you think Santa would be a Mac or iPad person?

1:21:41Santa's on the go Santa's just iPhone all iPhone all the time.

1:21:45See I would say iPad if we're choosing but yes I get the-

1:21:49He might have an iPad in the sleigh or you know and back at home they might have a whole

1:21:54big Mac setup but I feel like he's so he's so mobile like he's got to check his list

1:21:59I think that list is an app now and he's got it down the chimney there so he's got it's

1:22:03got to be in his pocket it's got to be an iPhone so I've turned that question around

1:22:08entirely.

1:22:09I like that yeah I like that.

1:22:11Andrew asks this is probably a question for me what is the best alcohol for eggnog?

1:22:15Rum bourbon brandy or something more exotic?

1:22:17I'm going to put a link in the show notes for the one of my favorite YouTube channels

1:22:22Benjamin Babish there is a I'll put a link to the video that they did for holiday cocktails

1:22:31and I really like Babish's recipe which is bourbon and rum but just like specifically

1:22:37the entire recipe is is really good and I recommend that so I'll put that in.

1:22:45And I will recommend an episode of the incomparable game show episode 245 where we play a game

1:22:54of mind meld and one of the questions is about what goes in eggnog and and you'll find out

1:23:02interesting thoughts about what people who don't understand eggnog put in eggnog I don't

1:23:06drink eggnog so I have no opinion here but I think I put I think rum is what I answered

1:23:11for that.

1:23:12Okay yeah rum rum is typical but I think a nice combo of rum and bourbon is good.

1:23:19Ann asks Christmas songs but it's not what you think what's your least favorite?

1:23:26Least favorite Christmas song is in Christmas it's a marshmallow world.

1:23:34What is that?

1:23:38It's a song and I remember hearing it and hating it Bing Crosby it was a hit and then

1:23:46I think there was a marshmallow world Dean Martin did it.

1:23:54I hate that song so much.

1:23:56I don't know this by its like title but I'll have to go check it out.

1:24:01Marshmallow world in the winter and the snow is humbling down.

1:24:05It's bad.

1:24:10And then the other one I don't like is jingle bell rock.

1:24:15I don't like jingle bell rock.

1:24:17I think it's lazy I think it's super lazy.

1:24:21I think jingle bell rock is lazy I think marshmallow world is cloying and bad.

1:24:26I like yeah I've got opinions I don't really like the beach boys Christmas song either

1:24:32I know.

1:24:33This is killing me you know I don't feel so bad about what I'm gonna say now.

1:24:38I think the worst Christmas song is all I want for Christmas is you by Mariah Carey.

1:24:44Stop.

1:24:45You've got to stop it.

1:24:46You've got to stop it.

1:24:48There are better versions of this song.

1:24:49Mariah Carey much love to you alright.

1:24:52You're an incredible artist with such a great range.

1:24:55We got to stop this song.

1:24:57We got to stop it.

1:24:58It has to end.

1:24:59We need another one.

1:25:01I please please another song.

1:25:04Please like Michael Buble's version better.

1:25:10I think you could say that about most songs.

1:25:12Aaron final question real tree or artificial tree and why which do you have now and have

1:25:19you ever done the other?

1:25:22Real tree always have had a real tree love a real tree love the smell that it brings

1:25:27it's got the tree smell your house smells like there's a tree in it which there is which

1:25:31is great.

1:25:32If I could get a tree that was like in a pot that I could put inside and then put outside

1:25:40I would do that but the problem is I think trees grow and so it would outgrow the pot

1:25:44and then I couldn't use it as a Christmas tree.

1:25:46I would love to do that at some point but real tree 100%.

1:25:50My mom has an artificial tree now but we always had real tree when I was growing up and I

1:25:53still do.

1:25:56I've always done artificial tree.

1:25:59I would like to do real tree.

1:26:01We have I've it was not something that my mom would have wanted and when we were in

1:26:06our apartment we did not have enough space.

1:26:08We have enough space in our house now for a bigger tree.

1:26:11So we're going to get a bigger artificial tree but I at some point in the next couple

1:26:17of years would like to try a real tree for the first time.

1:26:19I think that would be really good and I would I know I would appreciate it and there are

1:26:25places not too far from me where I could get one and I could like walk home with it.

1:26:30But yeah I would like to do it but I've never done it.

1:26:34So it's funny because when you said that you put up your tree early before you before Thanksgiving

1:26:40because then you flew to America I almost said we would never do that because the tree

1:26:48would be dying way before the end of the year but it doesn't die if it's not alive.

1:26:56Our tree is a little bit sad so in a way.

1:27:00Our decorations are amazing.

1:27:02We buy decorations in places that we go so our tree is full of memories which I think

1:27:07for me I think is the perfect way to decorate.

1:27:12But we have not bought a new tree so like we found like a really small tree it's called

1:27:16a slim tree which we needed in the apartment because we didn't have space.

1:27:19So right we have this very small Christmas tree in the downstairs now which is just like

1:27:24an open space.

1:27:25A pretty large downstairs yeah.

1:27:27Yeah and it's also actually quite short so we have to put it on top of a small coffee

1:27:31table.

1:27:33But the tree is trying its best out here right it's decorating nice so I think we get away

1:27:37with it.

1:27:38The tree is doing what it can.

1:27:39It's doing what it can with what it's got but next year it's a bigger tree.

1:27:41My mom has a tree that's probably two feet tall but it's every it's a fiber it's like

1:27:47fiber optic strands coming out of it so it like it lights itself.

1:27:51It's pretty cool.

1:27:52Yeah those things are a lot but good.

1:27:57I wouldn't want that you can do it I would not want a full size tree like that but people

1:28:02do it.

1:28:03No.

1:28:04No.

1:28:05That's too much.

1:28:06Yeah.

1:28:07Thank you for sending in your holiday ask upgrade questions.

1:28:09Thank you for sending in all of the ask upgrade questions that you send us.

1:28:12You can always send them in at upgradefeedback.com.

1:28:16You can check out Jason's work at sixcolors.com.

1:28:19You can hear him at the incomparable and here on Relay.

1:28:21You can listen to me here on Relay too and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

1:28:25You can find us online on Mastodon Threads and Blue Sky and you can watch clips of this

1:28:29show on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube where we're at Upgrade Relay.

1:28:34Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus and thank you to our sponsors

1:28:37of this week's episode.

1:28:39Thank you to Squarespace and Vitally.

1:28:40A huge thank you to Lex Friedman for the jingles all the way that we needed throughout this

1:28:45entire episode.

1:28:46Thank you for listening.

1:28:48Happy holidays and we'll be back next week with the 11th annual upgradeys.

1:28:53Until then, say goodbye Jason Snell.

1:28:56Ho ho ho!

1:28:58Merry Christmas my Curly.

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