0:00:00well as the other one year later but the one shown it can be the one I like that
0:00:04because it sounds like you know the one as in the person your goin to marry this
0:00:07watch can't be the one not the matrix no not that one would work so did the way
0:00:14you got to watch to be the one is by telling it that it's not the one I
0:00:18understood that reference to them we have a tremendous amount of follow-up
0:00:25today everyone look at the time I think we should I think we should start by
0:00:32genuinely saying that we got a lot of really really lovely and wonderful
0:00:36feedback with regard to our Twitter conversation that happened in the after
0:00:41show in the last show and and i hope i dont sound sarcastic As I am really
0:00:45being genuine we got a ton of really great feedback and even even the
0:00:50feedback that I saw that was constructively criticize criticizing US
0:00:55was constructive and and I and i was appreciative of that we had a lot of
0:01:00drive-by tweet thanks and tweet love and that was extremely refreshing given that
0:01:06we spoke a lot about drive-by tweet hate so I just want to thank everyone that
0:01:11you guys were really kind of us last week and I'm pretty sure I speak for the
0:01:15to the other two to say it's very kind of you and we really appreciate it
0:01:20we also got a lot of feedback about how many external displays modern max can
0:01:29drive and I don't we got this from several different people but I think
0:01:34just moments ago we got a pretty good summary John do you wanna go over that I
0:01:38think this was the most popular correction from last week everybody just
0:01:42wanted to come in and say that they have
0:01:45have a MacBook Pro and that they have more than two external displays on it
0:01:48some people are sending us pictures of their set up some people are confused
0:01:53about which MacBook Pro we're talking about it last
0:01:56feedback regret the most recent models but even among those people they sent
0:02:00here I but the most recent model and here it is but you no more than two
0:02:04external displays what's up with that and so of course if you go to the
0:02:09MacBook Pro specs page at apple.com for both the 13 inch of a dancer says talk
0:02:15about their external display capabilities in a says up to two
0:02:18external displays up to two external displays for both of them so what's the
0:02:22deal here and Nathan Anderson is not the only person to send information but it
0:02:27happened to come in late breaking into his reasonable summary that deal as far
0:02:31as I can tell based on all the people who sent in both their pictures and
0:02:34their information is that if you have a 13 inch MacBook Pro you can only do to
0:02:41extremist players if you have a fifteen-inch you can do more than two of
0:02:45you have the discrete graphics with Nvidia chip and only two if you have the
0:02:50integrated graphics and there's some strangeness about past models could or
0:02:58couldn't do integrated so it seems like me the apples pages giving a
0:03:02conservative answer if you read that and think you can only use to external
0:03:05displays you happen to get on with discrete graphics and you can do more
0:03:08than to be pleasantly surprised but he'll never be disappointed because the
0:03:12upper to external displays is true for all the models and if you can do more
0:03:15and maybe it's not even officially supported according to Apple but it does
0:03:18work so here we go for all the people who wrote in you know you're not crazy
0:03:23your particular model may be able to do more than two but it is apparently a
0:03:28variation that Apple does not consider important enough to delineate on their
0:03:32customer-facing spec page also let me just how amazing this is because it was
0:03:38only a few years ago when if you want to have more than one extra display so more
0:03:44than two displays total you had to have a Mac Pro and usually with more than one
0:03:49video card
0:03:50this is pretty amazing that ever since I believe injection of thunder but I don't
0:03:55think the me too many DisplayPort line could detain them if that's great but
0:03:59it's only very very recent since the era of the new book on the MacBook MacBook
0:04:04and MacBook Pros that you can have more than one extra monitor hooked up and
0:04:08that's pretty amazing progress man could definitely have the external monitor we
0:04:17have some people at work who are trying to do like six external monitors and
0:04:21they were reaching I'm not sure which limits to reaching basically many of the
0:04:25people sit around had reached the limit of what their their machines can do I'll
0:04:30provide either physically speaking or for a GPU eyes and it is comical to see
0:04:35where the limits are a little tiny machine with this huge array of displays
0:04:39on his crazy arm that but maybe five or six things and what's what's attached
0:04:44that jane rest at a little laptop yeah I mean I think I think the actual limited
0:04:49display is there is like sanity desk space / arm capacity in external
0:04:56monitors are are kind of like cats like you know most people should have between
0:05:000 and one and you know it's really really easy once you have more than one
0:05:05to go what's one more I could you know have all the texts refer at my house
0:05:09like they're like there's some people like no number of monitors is enough for
0:05:15them and because they haven't adopted a system like yours john we're like they
0:05:18have some way to manage lots of windows on whatever space they're given know
0:05:22they need more space and they always need more space and like oh I have 2
0:05:27wideout three other men monitors are pretty cheap these days when added two
0:05:31more and let's get a double decker arm now we can have eight and it just never
0:05:35enough then all of a sudden F fifteen cats and was like that the physical
0:05:38incarnation of spaces there like I'm 1911 monitor for a text editor that will
0:05:45be in portrait but only ever had one document open at once because I used by
0:05:48Andrea launched every time on a data file
0:05:50and one monitor open for like my phone went and like the opportunity does not
0:05:55exist and if I need to have another window open I need another monitor now
0:05:58because everything is all I know is I kind of I want to rig I would never do
0:06:07it but i wanna rig that's like six monitor still wall of monitors in front
0:06:11of me I would get lost in it but it sounds awesome you'll never find your
0:06:14cursor let me tell you people have that at work you can never find your car show
0:06:17you how to turn the giant cursor mode that my mom uses what was the setup that
0:06:22that really nerdy guy in his boy used like a chair that was reclined in like
0:06:28two or three monitors pitch down at him or something like that got him to watch
0:06:33that movie again you will see that that sounds like a back problem and now trust
0:06:37me it was like this whole pod thing that the dude hadn t seen Grandma's Boy John
0:06:41you know I'm talking about I do not know which documents although I've seen
0:06:45people I can picture the arrangement you're you're describing the pictures on
0:06:49the internet if similar arrangements of people that are reclining and having
0:06:52monitors suspended above the knee or the reverse where the money is a blow them
0:06:56in their face down on a good economically speaking probably does this
0:07:01count as the reference that I made that you didn't get I think so
0:07:05admittedly is a very shaky and poor reference but well I mean is it
0:07:09something that you had an expectation that I would get us a staple of pop
0:07:12culture oh boy are you kidding it's a wonderful movie about computer geeks you
0:07:18say so I'm gonna count that as a win and Casey column anyway we should probably
0:07:23move on and speaking of movies and video John wanted to tell us about
0:07:27with your whole scrubber conundrum yep talked about that last week at the
0:07:31streaming television boxes in my big complaint aside from the video not
0:07:36playing at all is that TV streaming television stations none of them do
0:07:40moving around in the content and a reliable manner and I compared it to
0:07:46YouTube web browser which sometimes is weird flaky in html5 player may or may
0:07:51not be playing nicely with your browser but there's a little scrubber thing we
0:07:54can you know little circular hand on the timeline he could move to different
0:07:57positions and the video moves around eventually and any streaming television
0:08:02boxes very frequently attempting to do anything with your position other than
0:08:06play at what speed now he doesn't work as a result in a series of spinners are
0:08:11blank screens but can very often lose your place and then your check back to
0:08:15the beginning this happens by the way the worst case scenario is this your
0:08:18children are on the couch watching a movie there 30 or 40 minutes in one of
0:08:22them actually sits on part of the remote potential because they have to get out
0:08:27of luck in there was still plenty of the TV it starts to fast-forward or rewind
0:08:31or or do something we do one of those those actions and that throws things
0:08:35into a tizzy and then you try to deposit it play again but maybe the baby is gone
0:08:39too far forward or back or something and just lose place and now your kid is a
0:08:44maybe they want the movie to resume playing where was but you're back at the
0:08:48beginning of the movie and you can get to where they were even if you know the
0:08:51exact time stamp because hey how would you get there you would have to remove
0:08:55the scrubber essentially to that position and you have no way of doing
0:08:58that because password doesn't work it just you know there's no jump is no
0:09:01whatever it so this does not identify with me just emphasize that like I'm not
0:09:07asking for let me smoothly scan through while seeing the video go by really fast
0:09:13like the equivalent of video smart speed like I understand is there something
0:09:15transcoding down there is only you can just magically slide forward and
0:09:21backward in time while seeing the video flash before your eyes and variable
0:09:25rates of speed when the video is actually being transcode on the fly by
0:09:28some weak CPU and
0:09:29nasa your basement or something right the minimum I'm asking for is one don't
0:09:35lose my place no matter what I do and to give me the ability to in sort of
0:09:40QuickTime Player parlance are you two pounds
0:09:43move described her to an arbitrary position and start playing from there I
0:09:47don't see anything that happens make this me entirely black in fact that
0:09:50prefer that I hate it when I can't move the little screw everything both the
0:09:54desktop an honest review box where it says no no no no you can't you can't
0:09:58move that thing you have to wait for me due to load some are thumbnails our
0:10:02streams of content and transcode things like just stop stop the video entirely
0:10:06I'm gonna move the scrubber to position it's going to change the time stamp on
0:10:10the corner
0:10:11change the time stamp by all means as I move discover round when I'm done I say
0:10:15now try to start playing from thirty minutes and 42 seconds now you can
0:10:19resume whatever it is you're doing and and and and people run and tell you all
0:10:22you understand but be friends and h264 symbolic I understand that this was also
0:10:28difficult but this i think is the minimum bar for any device that plays
0:10:32video don't lose my place and give me some way to start an arbitrary location
0:10:36anything above and beyond that you wanna do find do whatever it is you have to do
0:10:41to make that happen
0:10:42free scan all the movies to find offsets find the closest offset to the thing
0:10:46that I picked and try to play from there and only show the picture once you get
0:10:49into it like whatever you do do it but I just want emphasized that I'm not asking
0:10:53for the magic ability to see the video fly past my eyes it fast and slow speeds
0:10:59because I understand it's very difficult course that would be nice and I'm hoping
0:11:01that will happen someday but we're very far from that now fair enough
0:11:07right well in how about the Koenigsegg and the odd model name that none of us
0:11:13can figure out how you pronounce it yet apparently it's it's like we mentioned
0:11:17it like the ratio 1 partial power to one kilogram or whatever but the name ont
0:11:22colon and numeral one is pronounced 121 it's not 11 although I like 11 better
0:11:27but anyway people want to know if you are considering buying what is 2.4
0:11:32million three million dollar hypercar it's called the 121 not the one
0:11:37one that just sounds like going to visit a psychiatrist's office or something
0:11:41like that let's have a one to 10 2011 2010 ones at work I don't think we call
0:11:46them that but yes I do have a meeting with check the parking lot
0:11:50Marco it's so hard to be retired isn't it but yeah we have meetings with our
0:11:56immediate supervisors which we which we call personal development something PDP
0:12:01personnel and planning something like that that's worse that sounds awful know
0:12:05it sufficiently corporate speak which is funny because our company is all about
0:12:0870 people or something like that but he yep that's a thing
0:12:13PowerPC Macs and x86 hardware compatibility 11 percent over the story
0:12:19that I thought was funny we're talking about the the rarity of these Macs that
0:12:22had x86 hardware in them and they were indeed rare and Martin Road in to tell
0:12:27us about his experience but these things he had a set of the forget which model
0:12:32was but it's the 6100 cases the first to like to use this case you guys look at
0:12:38the picture that I like they're in the shower it was the pizza box mac very
0:12:42wide to very low optical drive in the middle floppy drive on the right and the
0:12:48hard drive on the last and they had a bunch of people who were PC users
0:12:53essentially using these because they sold the very end of this with a
0:12:57different model number that had 46 insider maybe with a Pentium anyways I'm
0:13:03x86 chip inside it and they had a problem when these PC users but use
0:13:07these machines and you if you read this feedback you probably didn't spoil the
0:13:11surprise but if you haven't read the feedback Marco perhaps take a look at
0:13:15the picture and tell me the show was rigged to a baby shower together
0:13:21looking at his picture 1 but problem my PC users have with this Mac as soon as I
0:13:25saw the picture I didn't actually make it to the to the rest of the feedback to
0:13:30see why the picture was being cited and the moment I saw the picture I knew
0:13:34exactly where this feedback was going so I know people remember this is this just
0:13:39so long ago the big thing for the Mac platform was that it had auto inject an
0:13:45auto eject floppy drives hardware wise so auto injector meant that when you
0:13:50push the floppy disk in a certain point the mechanism would like something out
0:13:54of your hand and see it and auto eject means that the ejection was done by but
0:14:01initiated by the drive itself and in the operating system and the ejection be
0:14:05triggered by the wonderfully intuitive to PC users activity of dragging the
0:14:11disc that had all the important files on it to the trash that was a short but you
0:14:15can also select additions like the jack from the File menu which was totally
0:14:17interred anyway yes you would initiate the the unmount essentially from the OS
0:14:23and unlike PCs were you good eject the disc at any time by pressing a button
0:14:28next to the thing and you know the OS might complain if you did that if you
0:14:32did it when the light was blinking then you may have heard at all sorts of other
0:14:35things that relied on the user to sort of know when it's safe to eject the disc
0:14:39the Mac operating system goes to control over magic media and and you aren't
0:14:43involved in the process of ejecting the disc from a hardware perspective
0:14:46software respected you on man to the desk in the active on mounting it also
0:14:50rejected because the mechanisms all have the ability two centuries back at you so
0:14:54when PC users use this Mac they would see the floppy drive to stick the disc
0:15:00in and maybe they didn't notice the auto injector might've been gone by then I
0:15:04don't know anyone and they do their thing both right and when they were done
0:15:08with their desk they would do it all PCs years do as I guess look at look at the
0:15:12drive to see if any blinking lights near it is no blinking lights press the
0:15:15button to eject the disc unfortunately on this pizza box mac the button that
0:15:20was in the lower right corner below the floppy drive was not a disconnect fun
0:15:25there is no disconnect but another
0:15:26tiny hole you can see there were you stick a paperclip to get it out when the
0:15:30thing freezes it was the power button to the entire machine so everybody when
0:15:33they were done and want to check their floppy disk and press the power button
0:15:36machine tournament I machine oh nice which must have been hilarious but still
0:15:41in PC users at the time defense which I was one if you look at this machine the
0:15:47CD ROM Drive immediately adjacent to this has a physical eject button so it
0:15:52looks like two drives side-by-side with each with an eject button if you're
0:15:59coming from though the paradigm it does make sense although I mean there is a
0:16:01giant power symbol on the paradigm separate separately from the paradigm
0:16:05this is like a consistency design flaw which is that there is an eject button
0:16:10right next to it in in the spot you'd expect and so it looks like here you
0:16:14don't hear the whole four disks here the whole floppies here the eject button
0:16:17from here the check button for puppies they're very differently sized ones Mike
0:16:22said one of the police believe you press the if you press the optical drive but
0:16:27it wouldn't actually inject because they believe the operating system had control
0:16:31over it is this it IT hardware eject button on the optical drives on my Mac
0:16:35Pro two you just have to slide open a little guilty indoors and Chevy little
0:16:38finger and you can fuck yeah they also don't work on you know until the USA
0:16:44checked it but still i mean you're saying this is a problem with PC users
0:16:49I'm saying this is a very confusing designed for everybody
0:16:53well it wasn't wasn't confusing for Mac users it's a parent and things like do
0:16:56you think the operating system has control over floppy disks or do you
0:17:00think in the user has control over it and the right answers to have the OS
0:17:04have control over but if you come from the other thing where would you think
0:17:06the user has control over and you're looking for a button and you can get
0:17:09whatever but you find and that's the only buttons remotely near there so
0:17:12that's the one you go ahead and the new gonna be said the right answer is floppy
0:17:16disks are always awful and we're so clever pass them anything with
0:17:21even even thumb drives now I feel like we have the same exact problem we
0:17:25haven't gotten rid of it people stick a thumb drive into computer
0:17:27desktop files back and forth and they just want to yank the thumb drive out
0:17:31and if you do that on a Mac and yells at you it says whoa whoa whoa whoa that was
0:17:35not properly rejected by both lost and above all please log back in Baba blah
0:17:39but by then it's too late I do like cameras because some of my cameras can
0:17:43be unplugged at any time and other cameras have to be unmounted from iPhoto
0:17:47or whatever before they can be unplugged and I forget I forget which is which he
0:17:51and some important programs will automatically eject the camera logically
0:17:54after its imported in some won't so that's also another level of confusion
0:17:58here and the power button on the camera even if you don't unplug the USB cable
0:18:02what if you just turn on the camera that will also and effectively unmounted
0:18:06fun anyway removable media is confusing and then the final piece of follow-up we
0:18:14have is a important service announcement for listeners of the show and I think
0:18:20John that you are best equipped to handle this I feel kind of bad talking
0:18:24about this how many episodes every in over a hundred right hundred and twelve
0:18:28so someone who endured a tax ATX and our feedback form as their name says that he
0:18:36may listen to the show and he's using the iOS podcast app on iPhone 6 and he
0:18:42says he'll ATP and only ATP to the podcast and jumped around wildly within
0:18:47the episode first few times I thought it was because one edition had finished and
0:18:51it jumped in the middle of the one before that I hadn't finished but with
0:18:54the bombshell I'm certain that I heard the outro and then again discussion
0:18:58about jobs versus cook and then about this leads me to suspect that there some
0:19:03evil commercial break a chapter food for thought their podcast up was buggy and
0:19:10this is a reasonable conclusion right if you are new especially if you're new to
0:19:14the shower and I think we talked about this on Twitter and a bunch of people
0:19:17replied so I'll spoil the secret is not really a secret the format of the show
0:19:24is we talk about technology stuff we have a bunch a sponsor breaks then a
0:19:29song by Jonathan man plays where he reads out our Twitter handles and tells
0:19:34you where you can find the show notes and says now the show is over
0:19:37right now the show is over didn't even mean to be in you know hope though and
0:19:42after that song is over the show continues often for a substantial period
0:19:47of time that's what we call the after show and like it did in shots here to
0:19:53the secret menu at in-n-out knowing which by the way I've never been to I
0:19:58would like to try but have never been really never been in California but
0:20:03haven't been to one of my life there anyway it's not really a secret menu
0:20:06everybody knows about it but if you really really don't know about it it's
0:20:11not going to occur to you that it exists so if you really really don't know about
0:20:14the after show when the song says now the show is over you know you turn the
0:20:18thing off or go to the next podcast right you never know that there's
0:20:21anything after it I think actually that's ok if you want to stop listening
0:20:26to the show there whether accidentally or on purpose I think that's fine
0:20:29because the way to structure the show is we try to talk about all the things
0:20:32we're going to talk about before the song and then after the song we feel
0:20:36like we are free to talk about whatever we want well thats cars something silly
0:20:41that we did but sometimes it's also reflecting on the show we just had and
0:20:46talking about the same targets from a different angle maybe in a more casual
0:20:49way that's the after show and i was just an upgrade of its agents known we were
0:20:54talking about the format of the show what distinguishes the after show from
0:20:57the rest of the show isn't it just more of the same sometimes it seems like that
0:21:01but from our perspective is like we feel like the show is over and now we are
0:21:04talking about I don't know like even if we didn't record it will probably have
0:21:09to that same the conversation after the show but we do recorded and there's also
0:21:13stuff that happens after the the song that we don't put in the show right so
0:21:17there is some distinction between the after show and then like the sort of
0:21:20stuff that's just what libelous anyway if you have to listen to the show her
0:21:24how many episodes and had no idea that after the song we kept talking we do and
0:21:29you can feel free to listen to it if you want or not like whatever you can listen
0:21:33however you want but what I was surprised by Twitter with many people
0:21:37said they had to show for like 20 episodes before they realize the show
0:21:41continued after the song and that blows my mind if only because like the lazy
0:21:45thing to do is just like just let it keep playing like let's play our next
0:21:49guest list
0:21:50pit stop in manually delete the podcast or something like you just let it play
0:21:53the song will end and we will continue talking so anybody can do it again today
0:21:58we've been doing it since the advent of the song I think there is the show and
0:22:03there's the song and there is the after show and that is the podcast that you're
0:22:07listening to
0:22:07if you didn't know that your mind is now open and will end and we also I mean
0:22:11exacerbate this problem not only by never actually saying you know we'll see
0:22:16you in the after show he not not by pronouncing it but also one common
0:22:20complaint that we get especially from other listeners the show that live in my
0:22:25house are you at the there's no like sound or anything to indicate when the
0:22:32actual actress Joanna like when the actual episode file ends there is no
0:22:37like closing sound or goodbye so it's very it's very easy to miss the end of
0:22:43one episode transitioning into the beginning of the next one
0:22:47yeah yeah that's true that is also true I don't particularly find that to be a
0:22:52bad thing but I understand people not being confused by that I guess what you
0:22:57can use the visual marker looking for playback app like the little plaid get
0:23:00to the end and there are audio markers from we start talking about cars and as
0:23:07an audio marker for when he mentioned HFS plus the secret menu in and out it
0:23:15is very similar like you learn these things and I just listened to a lot of
0:23:21shows are being in the community people listen to a lot of shows that it becomes
0:23:24just accepted that the format of the show but if you don't know the things
0:23:28you can still go there and order a burger and it s fine like stopped
0:23:32listening whenever you feel like you wanna stop listening but if you are
0:23:33unaware that we keep talking we do is we can show you know there's two
0:23:37interesting pieces here to me anyway the first is for the three of you that
0:23:42listen to the show that also look at the show nodes we clearly delineate that
0:23:47there is a post-show section that has usually links and bullet bullet items
0:23:54that are in no way related to anything that we have said thus far in the
0:23:58episode in so maybe this is a lesson to everyone that you should consider
0:24:02looking at the show no
0:24:03that market and I work on every single week mostly you where can you find the
0:24:07show notes casey you can find the show notes for your ATP program at ATP . FM /
0:24:13episode number which in this case will be 112 so thats ATP . FM / 112 you're
0:24:20supposed to sing the line from the song it's so informative I can't sing but you
0:24:26can find the show notes that ATP . FM that's right it's really are you know
0:24:30you literally can find them there I believe you can have some six months
0:24:34from now I believe you can find them that's all that's there like that is the
0:24:39only thing on the same series of shows but numbers in China that tomorrow if
0:24:44you're in if you're listening to some overcast you can swipe up on the album
0:24:47are we know that people don't know that's not also my fault yes I i do
0:24:52blink the scroll indicator the way as system standard is like when the screen
0:24:55shows up but no one knows that and it's really hard to make it really easy to
0:24:58miss so yet that that is a bad design on my part that I have yet to figure out
0:25:03how to resolve in a way that I don't heat but once you know that it's there
0:25:07like the at the show if you're using overcast you're looking at the Now
0:25:10Playing screen that shows the big level meters in the Big John album art just
0:25:14put your finger on that album art and slide upwards 10 you will see the shots
0:25:17and then the other interesting thing to me that I find a little bit surprising
0:25:21this is kind of building up what you were saying john is we start the after
0:25:26show the polls show immediately after the song ends this isn't like in 1997
0:25:31secret song at the end of the CD I have like a 30 minute track 25 minutes of
0:25:36witches or 20 minutes of silence and then all of a sudden you have this new
0:25:41song twenty minutes after you thought the CD was over like it to meeting its
0:25:45so I agree with you that that it's a little kooky to me that people would
0:25:49think of the songs over well better go change my podcast in not just let it run
0:25:55its course but you know they stop it because they don't hear this time it
0:25:59just seems the song starts like well as a top rate is a reasonable assumption so
0:26:03anyway I tax your podcast player is almost certainly not broken but it's
0:26:08just the way we structure the show why we do it that way
0:26:11I'm not entirely sure but it is what we do and this is the show let's talk about
0:26:16something that's awesome
0:26:17our first budget this week is igloo igloo is an internet you will actually
0:26:22like igloo software dot com slash ATP now corporate internets are usually
0:26:29really miserable things a clue is the internet really done right it is done by
0:26:35people who who are familiar with the modern web and who respect innovations
0:26:40from the modern web things like you know counters microblogs file-sharing task
0:26:45management things like Twitter things like quickies all this and it brings all
0:26:49this to the corporate internet space and so you can actually have like modern
0:26:54functionality and also really good design and of course you know actual
0:26:59functionality on on mobile devices all this stuff it brings all this to an area
0:27:04that usually is pretty short of his features let's be honest so with a glue
0:27:09you can share news organize your files coordinate counters and manage projects
0:27:13all in one place it really combined the best of all these consumer web apps it
0:27:18with productivity apps and with the needs of the enterprise all double
0:27:23privately and securely for your company or small group you're a clue interest is
0:27:29highly functional stylish and easy to use with a widget based drag-and-drop
0:27:32interface to change it up or customized are setting up the way you like there's
0:27:37an upgrade recently called Viking it basically it revamped how you interact
0:27:41with documents how you gather feedback and you make changes you can track
0:27:45changes you can track who has read documents you can you can require people
0:27:49to agree to that they read certain documents for certain legal RHR
0:27:53compliance reasons read receipts an email but less annoying this is very
0:27:59important for certain policies of the legal reasons and everything and all
0:28:02this is built on their very advanced platform all with modern responsive
0:28:07html5 and that's why it worked on mobile devices so whatever customizations you
0:28:12make they work on the mobile view it's fully responsive and they've crammed so
0:28:17much into html5 you don't need some like you know Flash or Java whatever if you
0:28:21only preview and office document for example they built their previewing
0:28:25engine alt html5 so that that will work on a device no matter what you know even
0:28:31if even if there's no flash because you're a good person
0:28:33evening doesn't have flash it'll still work even if you're on an iPhone and
0:28:37Android device even a blackberry it even works fully fully functionally on
0:28:42blackberrys they really are committed to making sure it works on every device and
0:28:48the end when new devices at the market with his new screen size or anything
0:28:51igloo already works on them so if your company has a legacy internet that looks
0:28:55like it was built in the nineties you should really give a clue a try and it's
0:28:59free to use for as long as you want for groups of 10 or fewer people and for
0:29:04larger groups it is very reasonably priced check it out
0:29:07igloo software dot com slash ATP thanks let a little rain so we are recording
0:29:14this on Wednesday April 8th and this morning at about eight o'clock in the
0:29:22one true time zone the watch embargo was lifted so we had a lot of reading to do
0:29:28and I'm assuming Marco that you read none of it I actually read most of them
0:29:33I read all the ones I found so far I really enjoyed the one at the verge by
0:29:38Nilay Patel even though he hates me because he really gave his and and
0:29:44Joanna stern's a wall street journal of those at the former to favorites because
0:29:49they really gave a lot of like Hannah like the everyday usage like what like
0:29:54what what really are the pros and the cons to the everyday usage of these
0:29:58things and is also both of them really good videos I'm very good pictures so I
0:30:03I was very impressed by these and I what do you guys think of what you've seen so
0:30:09far like this make you is at roughly what you expected to make you more or
0:30:13less excited about the watch is one thing I noticed was that none of them
0:30:17really said oh my god this is amazing it's a blockbuster yeah yeah almost all
0:30:21of them were like yet it's pretty good at a certain things pretty well certain
0:30:26things aren't so great it's definitely a virgin 10 what do you think you know I
0:30:30read a handful of them I did not rejoin us turns I did read anyway Patel's and I
0:30:35agree with you Marco that I thought that was excellent I like the way I like the
0:30:39way that he had raised it or converted from the perspective here's what I did
0:30:45throughout the day it also really made me feel gross that I kinda like the
0:30:48scroll hijacking frames of video as I know I should hate that but I actually
0:30:52kinda liked it so I had that so much and that's that's the one thing like it was
0:30:57ranting about this to you privately earlier but it oh my god modern web
0:31:02design drives me crazy because it used to be back
0:31:06back in the day of five years ago not that long ago it used to be the most
0:31:11distracting thing as a web page that would make it difficult to read articles
0:31:14were ads all over the sides and top now the most distracting thing about web
0:31:19pages is the content because it's jammed with all this crazy designs girl jacking
0:31:24stuff in a meeting in when you scroll and flying in and everything it's
0:31:28horrendous I like oh my god it is so hard for me to read a modern music's
0:31:35over design web pages like it's like these companies have way way way too
0:31:41much money and resources devoted to over producing these articles when and when
0:31:47the reality is like if you would have put UEFA tells article into John
0:31:53Gruber's layout it would have been just as good
0:31:56like it it gain nothing from having this giant like overwrought scroll jacki
0:32:03we're loading distracting animated garbage all all in and out and
0:32:07throughout it and and it wasn't just him and I saw the other one I someone in a
0:32:10Bloomberg was pretty good but just a policy that will also had not as
0:32:15egregious but similar over designed issues I don't know why this isn't style
0:32:20right now but I don't remember I was trying to remember the terms of this but
0:32:23they were but they called splashed things are entryways our gateways I'm
0:32:28mercifully forgotten this term when you made a site you had to have a screen
0:32:33that you had to go through to get to the site first the splash page designers
0:32:37wanted to show off and they wanted to they wanted to establish their brand
0:32:42they were they were accustomed to them are linear
0:32:44kind of sort of linear storytelling thing where you have a title sequence in
0:32:48the front of your thing or you have a cover page for a magazine or book or a
0:32:52title page her amazing story and they said before anyone gets to my whatever I
0:32:57want to show them are awesome logo and maybe you'll be animated movie sparkly
0:33:01stars around on the click-through logo to get through it
0:33:04landing page portal page of people saying I'm almost don't want to remember
0:33:08this because there was an epidemic in there was there was a lot of people who
0:33:12are railing against this album is one of them to say this is not how you designed
0:33:16the Bristol people can come to your condom anywhere second of all just get
0:33:18to the content and that trend went away people say you can't do that cuz it
0:33:22makes no sense people don't go through there if you try to read them to just
0:33:26get right to the content right and we had some of the middle period where
0:33:29things come down and now marcus said people are able to incorporate all those
0:33:35instincts to to show off their brand to make things that are visually
0:33:39stimulating to highlight the technical child to make a sort of movies to turn
0:33:44but an article instead of more of a movie or a slideshow with this
0:33:47transitions between paragraphs and screens and one picture fades into the
0:33:51next in the background of the animated showing a clip from the relevant to the
0:33:56thing the Texas talking about next to it it's the resurgence of those those
0:34:01landing pages or splash pages only integrated into the article and I are
0:34:04gonna go one further and say I I have a theory about why this bothers me
0:34:08specifically and it's not just the stuff that's on the verge as a reporter going
0:34:12off on the watch thing but i wanna talk about this much attention I'm even
0:34:17annoyed by web pages where when I scroll the webpage the you know basically
0:34:22position fixed and CSS anything on the page doesn't like what's the big deal
0:34:26that what about just like a top menu bar like a top navigation bar that stays
0:34:30there when you scroll writer or footer that I'm even annoyed by that because it
0:34:35breaks my heart breaks the mental model my mental model of the scrollbar because
0:34:40the scrollbars on the entire webpage content region and get some things
0:34:44within that region don't scroll the scrollbars not embedded and that its
0:34:47roll bars ER and even on their own
0:34:49doesn't really make it better if you put like an iframe in the page for your
0:34:52article content as you go by there I conceptualize a web page and this is you
0:34:57know an old fashioned notion or whatever but especially when the whole bunch of
0:34:59texts as a scrollable region and when I move the scrollbar the entire region
0:35:03moves as a piece as if it was yes a printed page as I was not a print paid
0:35:08to web is not printing shouldn't expect if I don't expect you to be like printed
0:35:11all the way that you know people mean when they said I like I want to be able
0:35:15to change the font size on the ultimate the window bigger and had the text
0:35:18change size and when I have you not responsive design of the images and so
0:35:20is over whenever reading along from article how everything is rendered
0:35:26didn't hear anything like it would be a paper once I start scrolling it the
0:35:29scrolling model is I move scrollbar content moves right and anything that
0:35:34doesn't move is a violation of that model it's not so bad and you got a
0:35:37header or footer but these models like all the scrollbar does like dragons let
0:35:42us grow by just triggers the next animation sequence right you move the
0:35:45scrollbar certain amount of nothing happens like driving you know and
0:35:48underpowered car you push the gas pedal nothing happens right and then all of a
0:35:51sudden the giant image that was entirely in the background that wasn't moving
0:35:54slides up and a new one comes in and maybe to text moves but then the
0:35:58background doesn't fit into certain point the background does move in a new
0:36:00background comes in like 10 texts a doubt it moves up it's like the model
0:36:06there is part the screen until you can see more texts and a bunch of crap going
0:36:10on behind the scenes that you have no idea has any relation to how you're
0:36:13doing is like just make more now me Apple those itself on their web pages
0:36:17return to scroll and like these Mac Pro animations are going to just wanna get
0:36:20down the Tech Specs sections you not sure be at the click the dot the
0:36:23scrollbar nothing's happening oh wait now transitioning this this breaks my
0:36:27model of the web pages looks a bit maybe I'm an old fogey but I feel like I've
0:36:31seen enough people interact with those pages they're not sure what to do either
0:36:33and it's like oh well I guess I did something in new taxes here maybe I can
0:36:37read it it looks cool it's interesting Apple does it in a tasteful manner but I
0:36:41just wanna grow and i just want to see the page move you know what
0:36:44even Apple's product pages though like it like when the Mac Pro came out of
0:36:47that was like one of the first ones that really irritated me that those sections
0:36:51have to scroll between and then wait for the scroll to logically catch up from
0:36:54the JavaScript and everything that's cool jacked everything unloaded it and
0:36:57makes it impossible to like if you like it command up to find something in the
0:37:01page you will actually
0:37:02looking for then everything would break in after reloading his people just keep
0:37:07their brands themselves i mean if these companies that that do this I mean you
0:37:11know it's one thing for a product of the Apple that's you know they have
0:37:13different motivations I guess that's not good but for a content company like the
0:37:18verge or Bloomberg or any of these like big magazines if he spent half of the
0:37:28money and resources they spent on those over designs on actually paying writers
0:37:32and hiring more writers I think they would see a bigger return and the
0:37:36constant we better it just seems like a tremendous waste of money to to do
0:37:42things that ultimately annoy your readers and I like I guess you can look
0:37:47at it and say well that kind of looks cool yeah but if you actually try to
0:37:51read the articles it's miserable it's full of problems and what we had before
0:37:58worked great there was no reason to change it you know you get with the
0:38:02times she's the fun maybe you know to meet the little bit that's fine you can
0:38:07keep it fresh and interesting without making it unreadable you know I agree
0:38:12with everything you guys said but I got it so I actually did kinda like the
0:38:15first so that's why they do it because it does look cool and it is interesting
0:38:20I think you can incorporate I I can imagine you know it without breaking the
0:38:24scrolling paradigm I can imagine a predawn flashy thing for this video go
0:38:27and then when you know even allow you to start playing video when I scroll to the
0:38:31region gotta do something interesting right like I'm not even opposed to that
0:38:35entirely if it makes for a cool app because people do find it interesting
0:38:39like it keeps your attention like you know like a jingling he's afraid of a
0:38:42toddler who you know just like succeeding in front of a TV like things
0:38:46are moving things a colorful things are flashy right people actually read the
0:38:50article to me that's why the top of the article edit video review which is like
0:38:53you know most people just watch that and feel like they're done but it's been
0:38:57like it does a disservice to the paradigm of the web when you break
0:39:02scrolling in that way not because scrolling it's a good ranking but just
0:39:05simply because it's you you're inducing a custom one off mismatch between the
0:39:10user's mental model of how scrollbar
0:39:12works and how your thing works and your thing is gonna be different than
0:39:14Bloomberg thing is gonna be different than everybody else's thing and it's
0:39:17just it's that's that's not good UI design aside from all the other stuff of
0:39:22being is a good brand name is good for traffic dude you know
0:39:26a/b test these things and more people click when we had this crazy scrolling
0:39:29thing like I believe it is possible to do something that still annoys Marco but
0:39:33that is still good you I that's all I don't you'll never not you know do
0:39:38something flashy that annoys market but do it in a way that doesn't break
0:39:42people's knowledge about how like a scrolling region works in a page of web
0:39:48page or anything like that it's a breaking the back button you know it's
0:39:52like it breaks the way people interact with the web or have you tried to move a
0:39:56window you grab the title bar between don't try to move no people do this
0:39:58anymore because they don't understand the windows move but if you did actually
0:40:01trying to move a window and instead of the window moving like it didn't move
0:40:05and then all of a sudden it did move when you got halfway across the screen
0:40:08like you know like you did that you know the things to the next level the windows
0:40:128 thing where snaps to fill the screen or whatever like it just didn't movie
0:40:15Black wait I clicked and I started dragging and we know now it's moving
0:40:18wait no that's what it's like throwing these things like we thought scrolling
0:40:22would make the content move but now wait no it is moving those that are spinning
0:40:25out know the background is changing terrible don't do it let me ask you guys
0:40:29let me start with Marco when the 125 K iMac came out I remember vividly and I
0:40:34was just looking for and I can't find it anymore date they had a picture of like
0:40:38a guy in like a nature scene and it was hyper zoomed in on the guy and as you
0:40:42scrolled it's doomed out indicate how big a five k images do you know what I'm
0:40:48talking about
0:40:49keno and then I did they put on the web there was I'm almost positive it was on
0:40:53the web I think I recalled ok so let me start with Marco and then johnnie your
0:40:58two cents did you like that as well or do you also find that to be distasteful
0:41:02to a certain point Marco you're not showing your not showing text you know
0:41:07where to go a certain point what you're doing you have an interactive and like
0:41:11the little interactive movie right and there's a lot you get a lot of leeway if
0:41:15it's like a marketing sliding to trying to demonstrate a feature but if i if I
0:41:19find myself trying to read many many paragraphs of text that are you know
0:41:23just a series of paragraphs attacks from top to bottom
0:41:26especially something like that like the verge Apple watcher of you like it's not
0:41:30a marketing site with two tiny paragraphs of marketing text with a
0:41:35bunch of you know that's like infographics little animations the
0:41:38machine spinning and exploding like I give a lot of we wait leeway for that
0:41:42type of thing but for specifically long form text articles you have to you have
0:41:49to serve that need first before and you have a lot less leeway I think 22 people
0:41:54are less comfortable the idea that this is a web page anymore now it's kind of
0:41:59like an interactive advertisement would UD / whatever thing labor sure you know
0:42:06so real-time follow up a few people in the chat I think starting with Moyes
0:42:11have found the page that I was talking about it is like a hiker explorer guy
0:42:16with his arms in the air and as you scroll down the image zooms away out and
0:42:22you see just how big the five k display is and I i completely agree with what
0:42:29you guys are saying like I understand what you saying I think you're right but
0:42:32there are times and this is an example and I i dont know I really thought the
0:42:36the frame by frame video on the on the verge article I just think they're
0:42:40really well done an interesting and I and i i enjoy it and I know why
0:42:44conceptually in my head that I probably shouldn't like these things but I kinda
0:42:48like you know you should that's why they put in there because they're visually
0:42:50attractive but I like the iMac site because the whole plan that side as you
0:42:54gonna look at like beauty shots of this thing and they're emphasizing one
0:42:58particular part of a new zoom is cool and it does emphasize the right now part
0:43:01because I mean it's a great example of like how do you how do you show people
0:43:04the Retina screen when they're probably viewing it on the screen is not written
0:43:08it's like trying to show them some 13 television but they're watching an eye
0:43:11to DTV like and this is a clever solution we're gonna show it to you
0:43:14zoomed it like one x pixels on your screen but then show you how much more
0:43:17there actually is in a dramatic way and this page is mostly pictures and sort of
0:43:22infographics right it's not
0:43:25tax I think there's a little bit of a hit in the middle of the SME section
0:43:28because the image stop scrolling the text keeps drawing but then the image
0:43:31catches up again and it's a little bit cranky but overall this like less than a
0:43:36thousand words or text them as they will probably less than 500 words of Texas
0:43:39state line 44 the verge thing that's thousands upon thousands of words of
0:43:44text and impairs the readability of that text in the comfort of reading that text
0:43:49and I i get home I'm afraid that I miss a paragraph did one of the animations
0:43:53scroll something away I missed an entire section that in realize it because I
0:43:57have no connection between my action with you the page up and page down key
0:44:01or the scrollbar this girl rely on my finger swiping or whatever and what's
0:44:04happening on the screen very easy to actually do stuff they started
0:44:08disconnect mister think so
0:44:10time and place for everything and you're not wrong to enjoy the cool animated
0:44:14effects are not wrong to enjoy the video I thought the video was pretty well done
0:44:17as well but it does not serve the needs of the text very well yeah I agree with
0:44:22that and I should point out this for 25 k I'm excited that you're saying is fine
0:44:26the first time I've loaded it it didn't load properly and I like it mostly lower
0:44:30after installing and it popped in and broke and and the thing in the middle of
0:44:34it catches and girls again that broke and these are assuming this is this is
0:44:40like the like the Facebook designer problem we're like all these these new
0:44:46facebook apps are so often designed to assume that all your friends are like
0:44:50beautiful models with three photography that are going on vacation in California
0:44:54and lake with its assuming that it's all gonna load immediately and and and the
0:45:02person navigating is going to navigate exactly the way you expect them to in
0:45:06exactly the way you want them to stop and see every section and it's just
0:45:10reality doesn't work that way and the web to daily to standard web is very
0:45:16adaptable to a reality works when properly designed it if it falls back so
0:45:22that it you know if they haven't loaded fully it still works for the most part
0:45:26if you do your job rate if you want to jump around you can do that if if
0:45:31something weirdly break source transformed or using some kind of
0:45:34assistive technology to actually transform the content or read it in
0:45:37different ways
0:45:37weighs nothing breaks for the most part like if you do your job right the web
0:45:42falls back gracefully graceful degradation does not work very well
0:45:46these things exactly it doesn't work at all usually usually breaks horribly and
0:45:50you're lucky you can even see any of the content especially anything off the
0:45:54first page and there's more like ads because unlike their their optimized for
0:45:58the first time experience but if you want to go back to that page like this
0:46:01with the Mac Pro pages for a great example like we all went to it and so
0:46:05it's like you know whatever when the next time you go you like I want to get
0:46:09to the GPU section as fast as possible and you can't just take the scroll down
0:46:14to 75 percent down the bottom of it is that you remember like the GPU section
0:46:18was near the end you can't just do that I think happens all the way through
0:46:21these animations to have to click through them what do I have to do now
0:46:24you're playing a game at like a puzzle game on iOS we're like you know what
0:46:27you're playing mister yet to figure out what do I poked which takes a hit what I
0:46:31have to do to I just have to wait here you just wanna learn about the GPU it is
0:46:34not as soon as you start using it as an informational thing there is you know it
0:46:39falls down we respond to this week by Audible there the leading provider of
0:46:45downloadable audiobooks but over a hundred and fifty thousand titles and
0:46:49virtually every genre and they're always adding new titles so if you want to
0:46:54listen to something audible has no audio books are great I mean you listen to
0:46:58them anytime anywhere
0:47:00audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook along with a 30 day trial go
0:47:05to audible podcast dot com slash ATP to get your free audiobook once again
0:47:11audible podcast dot com slash ATP now there's a book that we are supposed to
0:47:17have been reading but we haven't yet what is that pledge on yourself I I read
0:47:23the first in a few percentage points of it but I had a been listened to it and
0:47:29audible of her would have gone further what book is this John that's the title
0:47:33becoming Steve Jobs I don't even know title is that's right yeah it is the
0:47:37latest Steve Jobs biography
0:47:40that has been getting a lot of press this is the barbed wire has gotten
0:47:45nearly unprecedented access to Apple executives and people who knew steve
0:47:49obviously does not access to Steve himself anymore but is written by
0:47:53someone who has had a many years relationship with Steve as a as a
0:47:56journalist and the Apple executives who did talk to this author is it to other
0:48:03book actually a 4-2 did talk to him had said have been saying in the press that
0:48:08they like this biography and that they don't like the authorized biography
0:48:12anyone who has listened to hypocritical knows that I also don't like the Walter
0:48:15Isaacson biography but I'm also slightly uncomfortable with the idea of Apple
0:48:21executives endorsing a biography is being better than some other one I mean
0:48:25I guess it makes perfect sense like you new Steve Jobs like if you actually knew
0:48:29him and you know he's being not well represented by another book and a new
0:48:33book comes out that does represent him well it's natural for you to say this is
0:48:37the better one because this is more like the Steve then I knew but it's very it's
0:48:41like you know the appearance of impropriety like it's it's a little bit
0:48:44weird to be endorsing about you than most people I think this is just a rival
0:48:51is great kind of book I'm only about 10% in this book I talked about it on the
0:48:55episode to upgrade I was really i'ma Jason Snell I talked about the first ten
0:48:59percent of the book he has written that Jason and read the whole books we talked
0:49:01about the entire thing we went back and forth a bit but I am reading it and
0:49:06regardless of who these two guys read it I'm going to talk about the book when
0:49:10I'm done reading it and I'm going to talk about an ATP so the reason you
0:49:13should get this book on audible is so that you unlike the other two guys hey
0:49:17hey hey hey I am like a hundred and ten pages in thank you very much I actually
0:49:22bought it on dead trees that was a mistake probably but I S devices only
0:49:29there is green choices to choose it anyway whatever it takes you to get if
0:49:32you've got an audiobook you can listen to it by you walk the dog or jog or
0:49:37whatever so that you the listener
0:49:39done your homework and when the time comes and i'm by the way very slow
0:49:41readers you have plenty of time to do this is going to look at the Reebok when
0:49:45we talk about it you'll be prepared
0:49:47perfect audible podcast dot com slash ATP to start this book or any other one
0:49:53thanks a lot to audible for sponsoring our show alright I really am like a
0:49:58hundred pages into that book so don't don't love me in with that Marco
0:50:02characters Jesus to do any homework he should I do but you never you never read
0:50:06books they know I read it on my giant iPhone on the plane on the way to
0:50:10ireland and then promptly forgot to keep reading it once I got there I think it
0:50:15gets better toward the end Jason the saying that the beginning part like the
0:50:18authors don't have much first-hand experience history has a lot of stuff
0:50:20but towards the end they get all the good interviews in new stuff comes out
0:50:23so you should read it or listen to it I got there I I have to agree with you
0:50:27Marco that the beginning through around about the time when when steve got fired
0:50:34I didn't really care for it but now I feel like it's getting a little more
0:50:39opinionated which I like and it's getting a little more interesting but it
0:50:44was it was hard to get going for me so I don't blame you for forgetting to pick
0:50:49it back up okay so now that we started to an aborted talking about what
0:50:53happened we can do it again
0:50:56it almost worked at the end of the show next week so we should probably talk
0:51:05about the talk about the it lifted embargo in the reviews I've read so I
0:51:09think we've already a smattering of them I've read some of the ones that Mark as
0:51:13Read operate I've not read some of the ones that Marcos read John I assume
0:51:16you've read all the things because you do homework even we don't want you to so
0:51:20the interesting thing to me about this and we were talking privately about it
0:51:24the three of us with a few other people and Steve Hackett said to us it seems
0:51:31like a lot of the reviews are kinda disappointed a little bit especially
0:51:35about performance in he had said and I agree we should have seen that coming
0:51:40but it still feels a little bit surprising that that's the that's to me
0:51:46like the most worrisome but also unsurprising part because I'm you know
0:51:52I'm all excited as everyone else's you know which one do I get and I guess
0:51:55we'll talk about that but like you know I want to get some is to be really
0:52:00awesome and if I'm going to get like a nice steal one edition but if I can I
0:52:05steal one
0:52:06maybe the link really wanna kill you no good I said hi and on that I would
0:52:10really want it to be like an amazing thing and it it sounds like the other
0:52:15reviews its a first generation device and you really shouldn't be surprised by
0:52:19that but it's a first generation device and especially the things that that
0:52:23caught up to me that I really noticed not only does everybody say it's a
0:52:27little bit slow sometimes which which is certainly disappointing but you can see
0:52:32in some of the videos and one of the reviews I forget which one it might have
0:52:36been a lie and he was one of the review said that you can you can see the air
0:52:41gap between the screen and the cover glass or the cover sapphire and I saw
0:52:47one of the videos too and it's it's very clear like you can see the rectangle
0:52:52outline of the actual screen inside that nice big flat black top and it does kind
0:52:57of ruined the illusion of his being like one seamless thing and I look at things
0:53:02like that if it like that the the screen air gap being visible and and the
0:53:07slowness people are talking about and i know i kno also for the slowness thing
0:53:11you know watch kidnaps you know you can see even in the simulator on watch
0:53:17kidnaps you can see that there's like some inherent lag in this process of
0:53:21like kind of throwing the interface from the phone to the watch over Bluetooth
0:53:25but just how much could actually work that's probably going to be sluggish too
0:53:29and so it seems like there's there's a theme of this is a really cool device
0:53:35with some really cool features however it's a little bit slow sometimes watch
0:53:38caps a little bit slow and there's a couple of looking a little niggling
0:53:42points like you know like that late the visible air gap on the display so I see
0:53:47all these things that I think obviously you know its speed and display
0:53:52elimination these are the kind of things that Apple always improves over time and
0:53:56so I I know that version two is gonna come out and be significantly better in
0:54:02some of these areas that's what always happens probably only a year from now
0:54:06it's going to be that far from now and think to it the hard way so we we've all
0:54:11heard the same rumors I think the rumors that said that this was supposed to come
0:54:15out last fall
0:54:17so we're kinda like six months later then if that's accurate nearly six
0:54:22months late I'm rely on average number of these when it was shown to the public
0:54:25last fall it sure looked at the hardware is pretty much done
0:54:29yeah it's it seemed like the software was probably what was holding up all
0:54:33this time and that's you know as we know from engineering that's that's way more
0:54:37likely to be the case then the other way around it seems like this is definitely
0:54:40like the hardware is fine the software needed more time right not not a big
0:54:44surprise so I kind of think that we might be seeing like jet like half
0:54:49generation older hardware if if they were going to ship this hardware last
0:54:54fall
0:54:54originally then what's good what's good what's the harbour gonna be like next
0:54:59spring presumably when there is you know Apple watch to wear whatever I feel like
0:55:03we're gonna jump ahead even further than we usually do in the first to second
0:55:07generation migration because you had after six months rather than jumping
0:55:12ahead a year you might jump ahead 18 months that makes sense and he very well
0:55:18could be right in
0:55:19in John a chance to talk here in a second but one of the things that I was
0:55:24really looking forward to once I realized today was embargo day was
0:55:28hoping that I could really solidify my plans for what to do because I've talked
0:55:34on the show in and on analog about well maybe I'll get one but maybe I won't
0:55:39which which typically in my history means I'm absolutely getting one but I
0:55:44just haven't convinced myself yet and I gotta tell you after reading these I had
0:55:49been hemming and hawing between one because God that $1,100 one looks like
0:55:56one hour at least two dozen screen who knows what it's like a real life but on
0:56:00screen looks so good inside but I don't flip flopping back and forth back and
0:56:04forth in the one thing that I think I've concluded based on all these reviews is
0:56:08if I'm gonna do it at all which knowing me I probably will I should definitely
0:56:12get a sport because it sounds like I'm gonna want to replace the same here just
0:56:16like you were saying Marco
0:56:17John yeah I think for both of you are buying and buying when I magnin a lot of
0:56:23these early reviews are pushing it pushing them to the sport of saying I
0:56:27had all sorts of plans about which one is going to get it was picking and
0:56:30choosing with matching things when I read these reviews protect people who
0:56:33read 5 reviews of the watch all of them were thinking yeah maybe ok with sport
0:56:37and you know if you still want Monica seems like it's cool but it's so clear
0:56:42that you're only going to want it for a little while a couple things on the
0:56:48water use first is that you choose knowing a lot of people who have had
0:56:54interactions with the watch it was nice to see that there's nothing
0:57:01unsurprisingly reviews if you know people who have gone to the press events
0:57:05whose touch the watches who are you know have experience with everything that was
0:57:10in the reviews everything like sort of objective not like how does this fit
0:57:17into my life I like how does the device reform and what features does it have
0:57:20like we knew that already I think part of that has to do with Apple's big press
0:57:23push and the sort of long slow-motion rollout where they just released
0:57:28information and you going to the store is a mess with them you can do it like
0:57:31it was different then boy known as ever touch one of these things for now gonna
0:57:35read about it and learn about all these stories were all kind of on the same
0:57:38page in all things that we kind of knew already so it's good to see the one
0:57:43aspect that maybe people who aren't in as close touch with people who play with
0:57:48the watches have been surprised about the market is mention that there but
0:57:52slower than people expected and didn't even see a lot of that even the press
0:57:55hands on because it wasn't quite as hands-on as you would expect but the
0:58:00fact that it feels sluggish i think is catching people little bit by surprise
0:58:02for a couple reasons first that the first iPhone despite like if you go back
0:58:08and look at it now actually being more sluggish than say an iPhone 6 it didn't
0:58:12feel sluggish because they had removed everything from that the original iPhone
0:58:17except for like the bare minimum like the entire phone was concentrating as
0:58:22hard as I could on doing whatever it is that you establish your finger
0:58:24hardcore it was you know it was like the old Mac menu or yell down then hold down
0:58:29the button to pull down menu from the menu bar the entire machines Tisdale
0:58:33began really responsive animation when you're scrambling through the menu and
0:58:37it was necessary 128 came back just carried over for way too long because
0:58:40you can get its act together but that whole idea of like version one of this
0:58:45product
0:58:45interactivity above all stopped everything else is going on the machine
0:58:48just this one thing and then went to watch because the screen is so small and
0:58:52peace is a very someone like there is an expectation I think they would do the
0:58:56same thing that because it's pushing so few pixels and because the watch does so
0:59:01that'll surely there won't be anything can happen to watch that would be
0:59:04sluggish I mean why would it but kind of like the you know the iPhone sort of
0:59:10pushed back to level a distraction by have incredibly weak hardware the
0:59:15hardware in in the watch is pretty darn we can mean people talk about what the
0:59:19s1 might be best on which a series chipset might be based on regardless of
0:59:22which one is based on it surely under clocked right compared to what it was in
0:59:26whatever the top and iPad iPhone that had the same CPU architecture that it is
0:59:31a relatively weak CPU and GPU in there and unlike the original iPhone the watch
0:59:36has to do all sorts of stuff and that brings me to the second sort of
0:59:39realization after reading all these reviews is that I don't think things are
0:59:44going to get all that much better for the worst case scenarios of performance
0:59:48and people talked about I launched a watch kidnap and I just saw spinner for
0:59:52a long time are lots of waiting screens and and a lot of the video reviews you
0:59:55get to see the various waiting screens of the various out one shows an
0:59:59animation of different modes of transportation when she was a little dot
1:00:02spinner when she was just a black screen sometimes this thing doesn't launch at
1:00:05all that's an architectural thing we're watching it apps are really iPhone apps
1:00:10that are sort of projecting their their interface onto the phone interacting
1:00:13back and forth across a wireless connection and there's nothing you can
1:00:19really do with either the phone hardware or the watch hardware make them both
1:00:23infinitely fast make them both have huge amounts of RAM make them have incredibly
1:00:26powerful CPUs and GPUs if you're trying to do some of the remote control
1:00:31interface you know you're gonna be constrained by opening and closing
1:00:36connection
1:00:36communicating over Bluetooth having interference problems caused your phone
1:00:40is in your pocket in your pocket align with 10 for like whatever it is you
1:00:44can't do that that's like an architectural thing that version 2 of
1:00:48the phone is not going to fix that what's going to fix that is native phone
1:00:50app then what's going to make it a phone apps more feasible is going to be faster
1:00:53harder and more RAM so on and so forth that the problem will fix itself but
1:00:56this particular model of doing third-party applications by having the
1:01:01projected from the phone onto the watch not literally as a display poster for
1:01:05anything but like that whole model of two devices cooperating to to work on
1:01:09the UI together that puts kind of a ceiling on how nicely interactive this
1:01:13is and then to add insult to injury even on the native apps it seems like in the
1:01:17video sometimes a little study with an animation there with the swipe or
1:01:20something like that and i dont that can be solved by hardware and software that
1:01:24could help I can be resolved by a revision to iOS to to make things
1:01:28smoother in the same way that they really hammered on some of the scrolling
1:01:31table using the original versions of what was then called iPhone OS for the
1:01:36iPhone so I think not only is the version one product definitely kind of
1:01:41compromise but like well I guess I was a compromise in in more ways in different
1:01:48ways the iPhone the iPhone original iPhone was compromised but had no third
1:01:52party apps no multitasking know nothing right and so that was their compromise
1:01:56we're going to make the things that we have really responsive in the cameras
1:01:58you lose you lose all this functionality to compromise for the watch
1:02:01necessarily because of the way it's done and because the way it interacts with
1:02:04the iPhone is we can't sacrifice features interactivity we have to add
1:02:08apps because it's just like a new week we created the App Store age and I were
1:02:11living in it and things got out to be a big problem so you gotta have apps we
1:02:16gotta have them in some way if we can't do native apps right away do this we
1:02:18watched it
1:02:19type thing we've got to have wireless communication and things going on in the
1:02:24background because how do you know you tapping on the watch and we have a
1:02:27telethon the phone to launch maybe that's not even launching the app we
1:02:30have to launch a thing load that code have that code projectors display back
1:02:33here and while that's not like that's the that is their baseline functionality
1:02:38and involves a lot more things going on at the same time the original iPhone did
1:02:41so it's a different set of compromises and I don't think that sluggishness is
1:02:46gonna get better until they change and a tornado watch
1:02:50apps call me to watch it at the end of watch out to get here until those get
1:02:56here and those aren't going to really be great in till the hard ones offers
1:03:00advice so I would say wait two or three regions is expected next version to be
1:03:04the same physical form factor just maybe with a better CPU and a couple of weeks
1:03:08and software tweaks in the third one and that's what you get into something that
1:03:12works like they thought the first was good but it's not slamming it like
1:03:18that's the true of all of these products right like I don't think anyone is
1:03:21shocked by this is when you say that people think you're telling them not to
1:03:24buy an Apple watch but like you know that that was true of the first MacBook
1:03:30Air and or the first I reckon first retina MacBook Pro for strain iMac like
1:03:37that's that's how things work
1:03:39the tech world as a first gen product that the things people are citing as as
1:03:44issues or shortcomings are not significantly worse than other first gen
1:03:49shortcomings other product lines like it doesn't seem like there's like one fatal
1:03:53flaw here or you know one like a really big problem it just seems like yeah you
1:03:58know kind of slow sometimes certain things are that smooth yet you know and
1:04:01some of the victims in software as a software matures some of it will just be
1:04:06hardware limitation they'll have to buy a new watch for and yeah I guess we'll
1:04:10see I agree to like that the whole designer watched it being this Bluetooth
1:04:14projection turning the phone back and forth like that is so fragile and and
1:04:20complicated and there's so much
1:04:22inherent latency and weirdness there that we really do have to wait for
1:04:26native watch absurd and it's it's it's worth asking like let's let's suppose
1:04:33watched it absolutely don't work very well in reality it seems from the
1:04:37reviews that might be the case that you know they might just like one of them I
1:04:41think it was until I was really just an excuse how slow they recently you take
1:04:46your phone in your pocket and do it on their faster than you could do i watch
1:04:48assume let's assume the watch Cavs in reality our little bit iffy or at least
1:04:54not quite worthwhile do you think you know people are going to judge the Apple
1:04:59watch based on
1:05:01watched it and and if any any flaw or shortcomings get apps have will reflect
1:05:07badly on the watch on people's perceptions of the watch as a whole
1:05:12do you think releasing watched it the way they did now is better overall than
1:05:18if they hadn't released at all just said no third party apps yet have
1:05:23notifications which is probably better to do what they did because I think
1:05:28there is a chance that people will get the watch it all with third party apps
1:05:35enough to let them know that I as useful as I thought they were going to be but
1:05:40they may still end up with a product whose functionality they're happy with
1:05:46like I'm not entirely sure that the watch loses any value by not being able
1:05:53to have a giant world applications like I think the core functionality of
1:05:57telling time doing the fitness tracking providing a small window into
1:06:02notifications tapping you you know like that core set of functionality may be
1:06:09enough to to make this product worth its value because it is it's a novelty so
1:06:14they'll be something into that and to let people know do do I want to wear a
1:06:18smart much is there a place for us who are smart watch in my life I don't think
1:06:23the answer to that question hinges on the performance of or even the existence
1:06:28of third-party apps it will be nice if they worked and maybe they'll be one or
1:06:33two third party apps that work and I think it's important to them do it
1:06:36because for the one or two things where they like I mostly don't use their party
1:06:39out but I I do use you know overcast when I go running and I do this you know
1:06:43like one or two that work well enough that they're willing to deal with the
1:06:46compromises having them there adds value the fact that a bunch of their apps are
1:06:50flaky or he would be there soon your phone people just right and they'll just
1:06:56move on and I think this product lives or dies by the functionality that
1:07:00Apple's providing in terms of is it a thing that people are going to want to
1:07:04do and it will be a pleasant surprise and it will open up new worlds of
1:07:07functionality in
1:07:09watchman three years from now third party apps are really a thing and do
1:07:13interesting stuff and have access to like you know the speaker and the camera
1:07:18that's on the third model and the third generation models of the stuff like this
1:07:21world will blossom but right now out of the gate I think just the core
1:07:25functionalities enough to to set this watch on its way
1:07:30yeah I mean I I think the the built-in functionality from day one and and this
1:07:34one of us might even be like too much stuff it does seem a number of the
1:07:39reviews mention this including me like it does seem that there's a there's
1:07:44almost a lack of focus and maybe that's a good thing you know maybe this is very
1:07:49much in a have like the 80% problem of you know eighty percent of the users are
1:07:54going to use 2010 features but it seemed to be a different twenty percent of the
1:07:57features for each user so I see why they give us so many options of what this
1:08:01thing could do for us and that end and that also support the idea of it should
1:08:07support their party asked because like what I'm going to do with it is probably
1:08:11going to use like four built-in functions plus one or two third party
1:08:16apps like it's not going to be a very large number of things I'm doing with it
1:08:21but it's going to include at least one third party at least my own and and you
1:08:29know maybe like you know clear shopping for groceries if they if they haven't
1:08:32they do but I i suspect the number of apps on on the average person's watch is
1:08:38gonna be pretty small if the number of apps they actually use is going to be
1:08:42probably certainly under 10 you know that that actually is a regular basis I
1:08:49would say it might even be under five hits and it's gonna be a small number of
1:08:53the two me if you look at the watch the the higher the navigational hierarchy of
1:08:58you know you go through you can see a lot of their videos now and you can see
1:09:02if you if you play with watch Kate and see him to glance stuff and you can see
1:09:07the hierarchy here so that when you when you first unlock it you see the case so
1:09:12that's like environment one is the watch face and you can get notifications from
1:09:15there and then you can go to glances from there and the glasses are getting
1:09:19this page interface you swipe their you see your glance
1:09:22and then tap into open the app whatever that's all right there and then you hit
1:09:26the crown and then you go into the home screen then that whole environment zooms
1:09:31out you get when you get the home screen a little you know the the home honeycomb
1:09:35thing and then you can look after their what if the watch didn't have the home
1:09:40screen part of it what if it was only the watch face with notifications on top
1:09:45and the glasses on the bottom they waited like the way it is now the whole
1:09:48interface the way it is now but without a home screen so that the glasses were
1:09:52your launchers I think that not only would that be easier product to navigate
1:09:57but I think that might even focus a little bit to help people in approving
1:10:02the list of what they want to do to make it easier and lighter weight and take up
1:10:06less space have fewer things need to be updated in and need to be running and
1:10:10everything I think that might be a better product but I don't know I mean
1:10:13time will tell you actually have these things I think the other aspect to
1:10:18reading out looking at these reviews lined up here we have to keep in mind is
1:10:21when people are reviewing a technology projects part of their job to sort of
1:10:25take it through its paces they're going to dig into all the menus they're going
1:10:29to try all the advertised features they want to evaluate you know here's the
1:10:33nineteen things out as this can do its gonna go through everything one that's
1:10:38not a regular people use products as a product review is used products I think
1:10:42you are going to buy this thing and you know maybe around with it a little bit
1:10:48but mostly it'll soon be like ambient feature discovery when a notification
1:10:53compared with their phone notification appears they will discover the sort of
1:10:57context sensitive replying thing is and how the wheel scroll through things when
1:11:03they hit that button on the side will bring up the little to no contact thing
1:11:06and that's all I can you know i can text my contacts so I can call them from the
1:11:10watch to like they will discover things as they do them but they're not going to
1:11:14go into every single menu and find every single feature and try them all out
1:11:17extensively like people are not interested in fitness tracking may not
1:11:20even know that it can cost up because they don't even care like it will be you
1:11:23know people smart watches not a thing that most people have any familiarity
1:11:28with all the regular watches just look at them
1:11:30the time this is like right well we're starting from their regular watcher but
1:11:35I'm sure you had a lot of good content concentrating on how well does it feel
1:11:38that job the answer is not really that well because the screen capture all the
1:11:41time but I'm sure they'll get better as time goes on anyway but that's where the
1:11:45starting from like well I can't tell time in this much too and it looks kind
1:11:49of nice apparently into the water bottle but then I thought look nice and also I
1:11:54can get notifications and apparently I can text people who look I can scribble
1:11:57things to like everything is a bonus above I can tell time I don't think
1:12:03people are gonna buy anything like well it was $150 his every single one of the
1:12:06apps that I tried didn't work too didn't meet my expectations like they're just
1:12:11gonna they're going to use a small car the functionality slowly revealing
1:12:15itself over time by the time you leavin make it at home screening get obsessed
1:12:18with like people try to view the app's like oh I didn't go back to doing these
1:12:22things whether they'll regret purchasing it because I think there's not enough
1:12:25functionality I don't know but I just feel like people are not going to
1:12:30they're not going to use it like a tech reviewer they're going to use it like a
1:12:33regular person and you see regular people use their phones even if you give
1:12:38a person and i phone and you don't like that but you gotta have that are you
1:12:42don't like a tech nerd setting up to them you just give them an empty phone
1:12:45and let them use it it may be a long time before they even tap on the icon
1:12:49that comes on the phone could be months before that happens right that's how
1:12:51regular people use products and all that it is you know is in Apple's favor here
1:12:57because the longer people take to sort of take the watch through its paces the
1:13:00more equipped Apple hopefully will be with its hardware and software stack and
1:13:04potentially its next model watch just say oh that's actually much better now
1:13:07I'm really curious what to make of all of this because I like I was saying
1:13:15earlier that I feel like my anticipation which was tempered but enthusiastic
1:13:21nonetheless I feel like there's been some water poured on that fire and now
1:13:26I'ma lot less sure what I wanna do and I'm pretty darn sure unless I have some
1:13:32sort of epiphany tomorrow that come Friday morning whenever it is I wake up
1:13:37I'm not gonna be waking up in the middle of the night i think im just gonna
1:13:40schedule a trial
1:13:41and then see where to go from there because my livelihood doesn't depend on
1:13:46it like Marcos sort of does and I don't know if this is if it's really worth
1:13:52jumping in the first generation and you could consider all that claim
1:13:57Chatterjee's against me in like three weeks but for now I'm really not sure
1:14:02what to make of it in one of the things I wanted to discuss was a few of the
1:14:06more interesting things have noted here that all of us have noted news reviews
1:14:10and one of the common themes I heard was well you know it's being sold as a way
1:14:15to get back to real life so you can just quickly glanced at whatever it is that's
1:14:20just come in and then you can go back to the things that actually matter and I
1:14:24was really looking forward to that because i dont have a lot of self
1:14:27control when it comes to hear my phone and I thought well maybe i'd be able to
1:14:30glance down at my watch and move on and a lot of these reviews are saying WOW
1:14:34factor quote nearly so far mostly used to watch either alone in an office
1:14:41environment but it's really different to have a SmartWatch in a bar here even
1:14:45small distractions make you seem like a jerk sony's trying to describe the
1:14:49project to me and find ways to work together but I keep clancy my wrist
1:14:52hurts to see extremely on important emails fly-by it turns out that checking
1:14:56your watch over and over again as a gesture that carries a lot of cultural
1:14:59wait eventually soon he asked me if I need to be somewhere else where both
1:15:02embarrassment and I've mostly just ignored everyone this is a little too
1:15:06much feature all at once now in a lot in a large way I think that's kind of a
1:15:10self-created problem because if you allow all the notifications to come
1:15:13through then that's what's going to happen and I think we're gonna have to
1:15:18be pretty good janitors and stewards of what what notifications come in but it
1:15:23was kind of disappointing to me that that it seems like the black hole that
1:15:28I'm so tempted to allow myself to get sucked into its just moved from my
1:15:33pockets my wrist never look for a product to change your habits and that
1:15:38way you don't feel like there is it there's a kernel of truth that aspect of
1:15:42it is the kernel of truth is what we talk about when you're first entertain
1:15:44the idea of an awful lot like what would you think possibly have
1:15:48and the core kernel is that it really is much easier better lower fraction more
1:15:54convenient to just pick it up to your face look at something and deal with
1:15:58their than it's official phone in your pocket by now we are all experts
1:16:01extracting our phone with whatever and we prefer from whatever pocket we always
1:16:05do then where the top pants pocket jacket pocket depending on the weather
1:16:08whatever all experts at doing that right but it's a pain right and there's a
1:16:12potential that you could drop the thing when you're trying to pull it out
1:16:14quickly
1:16:15having a thing on your wrist this is this is the big killer feature of like
1:16:18it is more accessible it is smaller lighter weight it it's there you don't
1:16:23do anything at the attached to you are ready you're not going to drop it right
1:16:26that's the core everything else is people projecting like now I'm going to
1:16:32be better about you know not having notifications and paying more attention
1:16:37to people and I'm going to pay attention to my family because I have a phone like
1:16:39it if your ideas that you will be able to serve dishes they steal glances at
1:16:45notifications in a way that doesn't annoy people whereas previously you had
1:16:47two more obviously fish out your phone or do that thing where you put your
1:16:50hands down its like that's you doing that and you're going to do the same
1:16:55things with this thing and it's just like wherever you go there you are that
1:16:58is this this device is not going to help you change your life in that way but
1:17:02that story spins out from the kernel of truth about yes it really is way more
1:17:06can be in the same way they like small changes in screen size can be revelatory
1:17:10with the whole you know small iPhone to the big iPhone six-plus and all that
1:17:14like small changes in form factor and I would say or watch it pretty darn big
1:17:18change in form factor in a very fundamental ways from a low of rectangle
1:17:22less than you hold can make big differences but you have a separate
1:17:25problem with how you balance people who are not their and their electronic
1:17:30communication with you and people who are there like that is a separate issue
1:17:33no products probably ever going to change that for you and you can solve
1:17:37that problem or not with any set of products with the other flip phone that
1:17:41your texting people and we're pager that you're looking at or if you just
1:17:44daydreaming and you can't pay attention to people because you think about a
1:17:46program problem you're trying to ask what you want for dinner like these are
1:17:49all problems that are that happened to launched just told The all hypothetical
1:17:54scenario
1:17:55know you know no resemblance to real person or events 1200 block those
1:18:01problems are gonna be there no matter what so you shouldn't feel disappointed
1:18:05that this doesn't solve that problem for you and even tracking thing as well like
1:18:10the Fitbit whenever like if I get if I get a fitness tracker is gonna help me
1:18:13they do I can motivate you can game if I things right but if your problem is that
1:18:18I had a Fitbit and I use it for a while but then I got bored I stopped
1:18:22exercising when I got the Apple watch then I'm really gonna do fitness stuff
1:18:26I'll be so excited about its like if you already traveled that route like the
1:18:29problem is not the fitness tracker the problem is you
1:18:32yeah exactly and we're going to see this story unfolding over and over again over
1:18:38the next year of somebody getting an apple picking it will solve their overly
1:18:43distracted by notifications problem and it just makes it worse or it doesn't
1:18:47have any meaningful improvement because this requires a level of presence and
1:18:54and self discipline that if you don't already have it it's this is not going
1:18:59to give it to you like it if your phone
1:19:03first of all if you're getting invitations constantly notification
1:19:06should be meaningful it should be actions or events that you need to or
1:19:12really want to be notified of immediately not something you can check
1:19:17when you have a chance something you actually like for example almost nobody
1:19:22needs to be notified that a Twitter at reply to that something you can just
1:19:26check later when you have a chance thank framing it the way as like need to or
1:19:31want to like that that's going to be so different people that is probably not a
1:19:34usual definition what it really comes down to is are you serving advisers the
1:19:39device serving you because framing of that with its people decide for
1:19:43themselves
1:19:44know the devices serving me because I really need to know everything about
1:19:47reply or whatever right yet to be honest with yourself about that had to say well
1:19:51I guess it comes down to is if something happens on the electronic devices and
1:19:57you find yourself compelled to address that on those devices that thing is and
1:20:04you find yourself
1:20:05regretting
1:20:06while you're doing it like that you that you feel compelled that like you are
1:20:11being torn away from something else that would you say to yourself I would rather
1:20:15not be torn away right now but I have to because whatever now sometimes it's a
1:20:19real have to like you have on the job for your boss can call you are hours in
1:20:23which case you should do job but the Twitter @ replies people like turn that
1:20:29on because they really get our replies but if not reply comes and there in the
1:20:32middle like a meaningful conversation with their spouse and they feel like
1:20:34they have to go get that thing and then their spouse gets angry you will regret
1:20:39having gone to look at that notification even though you set that up yourself so
1:20:44a certain point you are serving the device like the device has a mastery
1:20:48over your life you've given it more power than you really really want to and
1:20:52then have to start to question like when whatever that thing was happened and I
1:20:56did it like sort of compulsively instinctively went to look at it was I
1:21:00being thoughtful amount that did I think about the fact that did I weigh the
1:21:04potential importance of that Twitter at reply against what I was doing at this
1:21:08moment because just having a notification to our place yet with its
1:21:12not for most people I think but just having it in a cell this is a reasonable
1:21:17thing to do especially if you don't get a lot of fun but feeling compelled to
1:21:21look at it in a context where if removed the situation you would say that was a
1:21:26bad call now is not a time to look at whether a dimension but you just do it
1:21:30can possibly that's when you know you have a problem with the way to address
1:21:33that problem is probably true that notification and I think every
1:21:36individual person decide for themselves at what point they feel like the device
1:21:39is now in control of them rather
1:21:42as opposed to them being control the device yeah that's a really good way of
1:21:46looking at it and now I'm feeling Tara terribly terribly guilty so thanks for
1:21:50the shaming
1:21:51hopefully this will cost me to reform my way so I mean like that's why I want
1:21:56everyone to know judge for themselves like do you feel that dole other people
1:21:59tell you you know he said don't let people tell you that you're looking at
1:22:03your phone too much right but if someone tells you look at your phone too much
1:22:06and you feel bad about it that means you agree with them right
1:22:09figures that you know even if just like it is your phone making your life worse
1:22:15or better and only you can decide that but if enough people are annoyed at you
1:22:19then being annoyed use making your life worse so it's an indirect thing you know
1:22:23me and like that's that's the balances and I don't get back to the kernel of
1:22:26truth about the phone about the watch being you know closer to you if you have
1:22:31a problem with notifications and sort of like electronic balance bouncing with
1:22:36like a wife that happening in front of your eyes
1:22:39the phone to watch my gonna make that worse because it gives you a more
1:22:42vectors for hardware to control you if you don't have a problem with that the
1:22:47watch has the potential to make it much much better because you're going to be
1:22:50doing the same things that you know you're managing you notifications you're
1:22:53not dealing with electronic devices when you don't want to they're not
1:22:55controlling you controlling them is just one aspect of it now becomes more
1:22:59efficient now you don't have to fish or other pockets like say you have 10
1:23:02notifications during the day if six them you know the picture for another target
1:23:06that's a big win and you think well who cares it's a big win at like who cares
1:23:10the phone screen of my phone is a couple millimeters diggers I really make a big
1:23:14deal
1:23:15small change like that can make a big difference and that's that's the big
1:23:19winner of the watch it like you know how to article about giving you time back it
1:23:26will because if you take the same and directions you were going to have a make
1:23:29whole bunch of them way more efficient and faster and like less less unlocking
1:23:34your phone and doing touch I D rendering your code of your touch I D and then
1:23:38swiping the notification and Bob of you just turn your wrist up there is a huge
1:23:42win but if your problem is that your hardware is controlling you know you
1:23:46just took another hard you just send another email and slept in and arresting
1:23:50her kinda line parlance and they're just gonna make your life
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1:27:13a lot to cover any other interesting bits that came from the review the only
1:27:20other one that I saw was on groomers review he was extremely effusive about
1:27:27the sport band and all readers small segment here the sport band is a
1:27:32downright revelation I'd go so far as to call it the most comfortable watch band
1:27:36I've ever worn have rolled my eyes at Apple's use of floor elastomer in lieu
1:27:40of rubber to describe the material of these bands but it truly does have a
1:27:43premium rich supple feel to it the way the end of the band tucks under the
1:27:47other side of the strap design Marc Newson first used iPod is brilliant up
1:27:52until now it struck me as odd that the $10,000 edition models came at the same
1:27:56bands as the entry model 349 399 sport watches having worn it strikes me the
1:28:01other way around the 349 399 sport watches are equipped with straps that
1:28:05can genuinely be described as luxurious 4040 elastomer or not
1:28:09that was pretty surprising because I have tried to dig in and figure out from
1:28:16people who may have had one of these on at one point or another whether or not
1:28:19the sport being was any good and that seems to be nobody has said oh my god
1:28:24it's the best a lot of people have said no and a lot of people said yeah it's
1:28:29pretty good but this was like really exciting john was really excited about
1:28:34it and that surprised me and I don't know if you guys have any interesting
1:28:37thoughts on that and I've heard I've also been poking around with anybody who
1:28:42I can find and I've heard all over the map responses it really does seem very
1:28:47polarizing some people just hate it
1:28:51some people love it some people think it feels good looks bad I've heard the
1:28:55entire range it just seems very polarizing and I think this is the case
1:28:59with a lot of the bands and part of the reason why I've had such anxiety trying
1:29:03to figure out what the heck to pre-order at 3 a.m. if I do that because like you
1:29:07to be sleepy or something and then before you can even try it didn't go try
1:29:11and then maybe cancel or modify your order if you change your mind and then
1:29:16who knows if there's going to be like you know four to six-week delay in
1:29:19shipping some rumors say you know i dont wanna like be without a lot for a while
1:29:24as people are getting my app and tell me all the way it's breaking so it is
1:29:28tempting to pre order something at 3 a.m. and I don't really know which one
1:29:32yet because again I teased the bands are going to be just all over the map of
1:29:36personal preference
1:29:37you know some people think certain ones are ugly the other people think our
1:29:41beautiful some people go into you know you're gonna think something will be
1:29:45good until you actually try it never lies over this user doesn't look good on
1:29:49me or it I don't like the way it feels or at least the way it works or whatever
1:29:54and it it's going to be all over the map I I think we're not gonna get a major
1:30:00consensus on band opinions because it is released so up to personal preference
1:30:06yeah I tend to think you're right john anything down maybe some people think
1:30:10that risks are generally the same shape right all the matters maybe amount of
1:30:17arm hair something like
1:30:19but in my experience as someone with a very strangely shaped this very issue
1:30:23just just variations in like bone structure of the rest can make one type
1:30:27of band so uncomfortable that is not feasible or can make one type of and
1:30:34feel really good and so is right that like any watch the fact they have a
1:30:40million bands is good because some bands are going to look really good but being
1:30:46comfortable or the opposite and that's why I think for people who are thinking
1:30:50of buying one you should probably try them on
1:30:54just to make sure because none of these bands differently designed a lot of
1:30:57watch bands that i've seen but also especially for women used to wearing a
1:31:02woman's watches very with a very thin band all these bands are pretty wide and
1:31:06the same type of strap that you liked when you had a very thin band you might
1:31:13like that same material and it's thicker you could see it differently on your
1:31:16wrist and of course the watch itself is much larger than some ladies watches are
1:31:20like that even the small and it's a big rectangle of metal so by all means
1:31:24everybody please go to the store and try to use on and spend some time with them
1:31:28the best of course is to find a friend was an early adopter who bought their
1:31:31sight unseen and try their hands on because they maybe you can use it for
1:31:34like a day or a couple hours instead of just trying another few minutes in store
1:31:38you any other thoughts on the watch reviews if I was gonna write a review of
1:31:43this thing I would take is relevant to this whole the idea of launching the
1:31:47launch excitement so that the way up a framing this agreement as well as like
1:31:51that's why they had about like well
1:31:55revolutions and products we have like the original Mac
1:31:58and the iPod and the iPhone and the iPad and the watch the next one and you see
1:32:02that grouping and it seems like a reasonable grouping of things and they
1:32:06they were targeted specifically with the input methods like the mouse and the
1:32:09click wheel the iPod a touch screen and digital crown or whatever but I think
1:32:15the watch is more derivative than any of those the reason the phone was so
1:32:22technology temple was the reason the phone was so exciting was because it was
1:32:26the you know it was my compliments of several vantage change the form factor
1:32:31the phone call screen what it put on that screen with touch screen that
1:32:35wasn't going to use like it was there was a you know i John redefining
1:32:40interface and so people are just excited about a bit like the future like what is
1:32:45this crazy thing I've never seen anything like this you know that the
1:32:48same story about the other phone makers taking all the demos perfect because
1:32:52there's no way they can make it real thing like this like it was amazing
1:32:55right and that's why the iPhone mantras big deal was blown away by the tack and
1:32:59it was just something they've never seen before
1:33:02incredibly radical in new and even given you know the price of a single only like
1:33:07it was a slow sales burn but there was huge amounts of excitement that they all
1:33:10start giving a call you the jesus prayed with the watch touchscreens are not that
1:33:17new hire a speech seen the a paradigm as as you know we understand that in many
1:33:23respects it looks like it differently sized iPhone the strap on your way more
1:33:27important the wrist and more importantly it looks like other smart watches yet
1:33:30screen thing with the band around it looks like a watch their been bunch
1:33:33other ones of those there's not as much excitement in terms of everyone's gotta
1:33:39be there you know on day one to get this thing at launch and I i what i'm saying
1:33:45is I don't expect I don't think this is going to be as big a bank PR wise launch
1:33:51wise as the phone was it will probably sell more than thundered example so much
1:33:54bigger now whatever like but I think this will be a slow burn and it's
1:34:00because it doesn't have the not such a radical break as the other ones the Mac
1:34:04was a big things like this crazy computer
1:34:07mouse and the graphical interface and Matt displays and like just so much new
1:34:11on once I think the watch will be more like the iPod or it's like an mp3 player
1:34:16I've seen those before what's the big deal about this now this is an mp3
1:34:19player like the wheel to wheel I guess how did that change things what you know
1:34:24it was like well you understand it changes things because the hard drive in
1:34:28the firewire loading and the interface integration with iTunes and we're going
1:34:32to the store in like it's a big story you don't see the whole picture now but
1:34:35eventually I hope it's going to be a big deal but the iPad was a slow about the
1:34:38iPod was a slow burn the watch is going to be like that like a smart watch the
1:34:43iPhone understanding a little down there so I guess you probably have apps but
1:34:46what you know what's the big deal and if all goes to plan this will be a you know
1:34:53I think the launch is going as well as Apple could have hoped it was and people
1:34:57are going to try them on and sort of come in and they'll be so big sales day
1:35:00or whatever and assist its gonna be cut to gain momentum and build its not going
1:35:04to be as big of a PR bang as the Mac or iPhone was and hopefully the press and
1:35:11the public will give the watch time to grow into what Apple thinks it can be
1:35:15because if they are placed our on it because of the bad version 1 it's much
1:35:21worse to have to dig yourself a hole that the momentum of the the phone with
1:35:26such that even though the first time was kind of cruddy in retrospect it was just
1:35:29so huge that it just carried us through the 3G 3G s and by the time people
1:35:32started really pay attention the bomb is actually good right
1:35:35the watch may not have that luxury because the scrutiny as higher but I
1:35:39fully expect the watch to to reveal itself slowly to customers rather than
1:35:46to be a gigantic bang out of the eighth and there's reviews the proper reviews
1:35:50for the first version fit into that idea of the water viewing is also we feel
1:35:57like it's revealing itself to these reviewers slowly as well and it will you
1:36:01know maybe this one very much you know i think is there an accurate reflection of
1:36:06the version 1 pride but I don't think that reflection
1:36:10says much about the future of this product line as a as a thing inside
1:36:15Apple right before we go i have already spilled the beans and told you that I am
1:36:23intending as I sit here tonight to simply scheduled the trial an
1:36:27appointment and then regret not having pre ordered one as I fall in love with
1:36:32what the watch what you told us so far is that is everything from your not
1:36:37getting the first version getting the sport version to you you're getting the
1:36:41black link bracelet which is the highest anyone that's not ridiculously cold
1:36:44right and and the one that I'm sticking by its I'm going to make a try an
1:36:49appointment see how I feel but you're getting my hope not because God even
1:36:55though I am such a sucker for the look of it I think first gen is that's that's
1:37:00aggressive you might be able to reuse the bracelet with the NextGen maybe and
1:37:05that's that's an interesting point like that but the problem is that still just
1:37:09a maybe that's a pretty big problem I'm just trying to bring Casey into his link
1:37:15bracelet destiny and I mean the reality is Casey like when you when there is one
1:37:20that you really really want I think you should get the bracelet the question is
1:37:25whether this is that one and I think that's where that's where we're all
1:37:28hesitating like it's definitely not that one it certainly you know it's you know
1:37:33everybody knows this is not that one it can't be can't possibly the first
1:37:37version like you absolutely positively no this is not going to be like you're
1:37:41not going to get this and be super happy with her five years guarantee like you
1:37:45are not going to be super happy five years because in five years can you
1:37:50imagine how much better the swatches gonna be your gonna know how much better
1:37:53it is and you're gonna be looking at your own anything going on
1:37:56just yeah that's that's not going to happen so by accordingly but at the same
1:38:04time though it's a balance you know this is a fashion item and many of us myself
1:38:10included Casey I think you to John will see many of us into the fashion ability
1:38:17to ourselves is important to me it's and I think he's please let me know but I
1:38:23bet you'll see you'll agree it's less about how it looks to other people and
1:38:27more about how it looks to us how it makes us feel and so with a watch with
1:38:32something like this like you know a lot of techniques like us are going to just
1:38:37go with the sport because the cheapest and does the same thing as the other
1:38:40ones and that's fine or they want to wait till version 2 and that's fine too
1:38:43I stole my coat the sport we'll get to that in a minute I'll see what happens
1:38:47but you can't deny that a big part of the appeal of these devices at all is
1:38:52the way they make you feel about seeing it on your wrist and so i think you have
1:38:58to balance that with your with the realities of the technology and the
1:39:02realities of this being the version 1 you shouldn't get something that you're
1:39:06going to really not like we're you know but the same time you should be
1:39:09cognizant of the fact that you're probably be replacing it in two years or
1:39:14possibly less yeah I completely agree and I think you guys both hit the nail
1:39:18on the head that if I was convinced that I was going to just fall in love with
1:39:23this device leaving aside the aesthetics of it but I knew I'm just gonna freakin
1:39:28love this thing that I would probably get the the ridiculously expensive space
1:39:35black some black lace black link bracelet with the letterbox right if I
1:39:41was condensed that then I was going to love this device I wouldn't lie I would
1:39:47have to think hard long and hard about whether or not I really wanna spend over
1:39:50$1000 on this thing but i would i would do it because it would I think it would
1:39:55make me happy every time I looked down at my wrist and market
1:39:58had the problem of having those and getting less and less convinced I'm
1:40:01going to really fall in love with this device and if I'm not gonna fall in love
1:40:04with device and if I were to get one at all which i'm still telling myself as
1:40:08questionable even though it probably isn't then why not get a sport and so I
1:40:13don't regret it down the road now with that said Marco what's your plan my plan
1:40:18changes like everyday so as the new information comes out as a think about
1:40:26some other consideration will wait a minute what about my my my worries here
1:40:32as as somebody who has not wanna watch for twenty years primarily for comfort
1:40:37and convenience and so comfort includes both the weight and the type of band and
1:40:42inconvenience includes how easy is it to to take on and off and the sizing that
1:40:48goes along with that so like I said a number of times earlier my ideal band
1:40:53would be one that is fixed in size to the ice said it however fits me best and
1:40:58then I can attach and detach it without that size changing so I don't have to
1:41:02like find my side every time put it on and off the only band The do that are
1:41:07the modern buckle which is too small for me and the link bracelet from that point
1:41:12of view the link bracelet is tempting but I think it'll be really convenient
1:41:15as you're gonna take this thing off every night and possibly like you know
1:41:20submerge your hands for some reason to take it out there like you to be taking
1:41:23these things on an awful lot possibly more than other watches depending on
1:41:27what your what your habits are their watches but either way it's going to
1:41:31going on and off a lot so he wanted to be as annoying as possible
1:41:36process so with that said I think the link bracelet would be the ideal choice
1:41:41for that however I also am worried about comfort and a non much wear and wait I'm
1:41:47worried I kind of run hot compared to other people I guess I'm worried about
1:41:51sweetness and I'm worried about
1:41:54really heavy the link bracelet is the heaviest one that's not in addition I
1:41:59worry about that and i also again like you I don't want to have spent $1100 on
1:42:07this first generation watch and then in a year or at most two years a much
1:42:15better one comes out and in this thing as worthless look back I was such a fool
1:42:19for spending that much money on version one so and also you gotta figure out
1:42:25like you know from a non watch whereas point of view there are other
1:42:28considerations for example if you ever type on a laptop metal watches click
1:42:33against the wrist rest it's not a wrist rest I know that the wrist area below
1:42:37your wrist that is made of metal that many ppl rest their ass on you can
1:42:41scratch the heck out of one of those things with a metal watch at least
1:42:44clicks and is very annoying if you're in a wrister armond on a hard surface a
1:42:48desperate able to click there with metal and you can you should over time like a
1:42:52wedding ring but it's still like it you will be clicking on metal thing against
1:42:56the service a lot every single band they offer has something on the bottom even
1:43:01the sport band has a metal pin on the bottom that will hit whatever service
1:43:05here near except the letter loop every other one has something like that so
1:43:10that is a concern as well you know sweating us concerns that's one of my
1:43:15worries with the floor that her band is 20 anys have never ever there you know
1:43:20against my skin that I think that would be a problem and for me having all this
1:43:24can all those considerations the the three that I was considering finally are
1:43:30the Milanese loop the leather loop and the link bracelet the link bracelet I I
1:43:36have basically ruled out for for cost reasons I also like other people love
1:43:40the way they look to me i i dont have any association with that except for
1:43:45older men older men always seem to have watches billing bracelets I don't care
1:43:50either way on them so I look at link bracelets and they kinda look
1:43:53old-fashioned to me and because of the weight and the prices well I'm ruling
1:43:58that out and militaries versus later loop they're very similar to one made of
1:44:03metal ones letter really they work the same way basically and I think between
1:44:07those
1:44:07to attend going literally because I believe it will be more comfortable on
1:44:11me even though I think of a more comfortable I think it will probably
1:44:15look better on me I really dressed very casually and the known as a little bit
1:44:20formal so I'd I dressed very casually black t-shirt and jeans most of the time
1:44:25so I think black leather loop and sorry for this massive discussion but this is
1:44:31actually thought I put into this so anyway what I will be pre-ordering will
1:44:35be the 42 black leather loop and I'm going to steal so one of the options
1:44:40that I could do instead
1:44:43get one of the sport watches and then add a little lube and separately for
1:44:46$150 more you can do that with any of the bands except for the black link for
1:44:52the additions that end and that would cost about $150 less if I did that the
1:44:58problem is I think I like what I said earlier about balancing like how much
1:45:02how much will I be happy looking at this thing on my wrist how much how much am I
1:45:07gonna want to wear this thing as a fashion item versus not want to spend
1:45:11too much on generation one I think the the sport I'm not I'm just not gonna
1:45:17feel good about I don't look at the support and and and say wow I want that
1:45:21on my wrist I just don't that applies to both the bands and and the appearance of
1:45:25the water body itself even though it would be lighter but I think the maximum
1:45:30comfort option for people who are very concerned about comfort the maximum
1:45:35comfort option I i believe will be the sport and even even if you don't like
1:45:41the sport band didn't get a sport watching at the loop and you know you're
1:45:45still coming in cheaper than this deal with leather loop and it'll be lighter
1:45:49but for me to strike that balance between what I actually want to see to
1:45:55see a my wrists were actually think will look good on me I'll be proud to wear
1:45:59but not having spent too much money on it I like the 42 steel letter luc lac
1:46:04that was me entering but I hear you and it makes sense and and I'm with you now
1:46:11john has the hairiest of the three of us probably most concerned about the status
1:46:18of your arm
1:46:19care what is your intention
1:46:22nice available just send me one to review and never talk about an hour talk
1:46:27about it on the show because like I'm not why are you the only one I would
1:46:32like one too many to send you want but I'm I'm not to have to woo you I'm not a
1:46:37watch where I don't wear watches I'm really curious about about this device
1:46:43you have to get your making an app for it you have to get right but I'm curious
1:46:49about the device I'm curious if this can make me wear a watch but it's very
1:46:53likely that if I were to get one it would end up in a drawer right I would
1:46:59not take it would be like I would try it out I would understand experience
1:47:03providing and I would say you know what I still don't like ever wearing anything
1:47:06on my wrist because I don't generally like wearing this is why I don't wear
1:47:11something Mrs but I am willing to believe that this could change my mind
1:47:14about that so if I didn't get one I think we just have to get the cheapest
1:47:19possible on because I have no faith in this thing being a longstanding thing I
1:47:22know the next versions are going to be better I don't wanna think it's like it
1:47:26actually worth it I didn't really like him to watch like oh this is really now
1:47:30interview part of my life for whatever reason I would regret even more getting
1:47:34the you know the crappy model or the fact that the diversion on this crappy
1:47:39oh man if I knew that the water is going to be such an important part of my life
1:47:43I should wait till version to version 3 hell I waited for the iPhone 6 to get an
1:47:47iPhone I probably would still be getting iPod Touch like I did I just don't
1:47:53entirely see the place this fits into my life but because an interesting gadget I
1:47:57would like to play for a play within four weeks it would be ideal if Apple
1:48:01would send me one and they're playing with it for a week and then guilt-free
1:48:04the net week is over send it back to Apple and say I've gotten the upper
1:48:07watch experience at the end of experience either know that I should go
1:48:11out and buy the sport model because I really like this watch and i buy the
1:48:15cheapest one now get version 2 or I would know that I should go out and buy
1:48:20the sport model because that models actually gonna be sufficient for my
1:48:24needs and I can use it for a long period of time there's pretty much no world in
1:48:27which I pay a thousand bucks one of these things
1:48:30without knowing first that it's just no way because I know that it's it's like
1:48:35sluggish and doesn't quite you know it's a virgin one product is no way I can
1:48:39justify spending $1000 even though I really hate to look at this bar models I
1:48:44don't like the sort of nine shiny aluminum I don't like the florists and
1:48:49bands before us the florist number whatever it is for us and bands I like
1:48:53the colors I don't like the white the black is the only way I can tolerate
1:48:56don't really like the sport band I have risked shaping hair concerns like it
1:49:02just you know I'm almost it's almost like I would but the thing take off the
1:49:07straps and then like use it in the pocket watch is like at the world's
1:49:10tiniest iPod tell I guess you have to strap it isn't that an iPhone like i
1:49:17just i just wanna watch a guy I don't know so right now especially you to get
1:49:22them I feel like we'll have the show cover the you can talk about them and I
1:49:26can go to the store and I'll play with them but I really don't see myself
1:49:29getting one of these although I would definitely play with one for a week so
1:49:33that's that's situation myself then if I do get one it's going to be the cheapest
1:49:37possible and then I look at the cheap ones I know what the heck are we get I
1:49:40guess the gray aluminum with black but you don't find attractive at all but at
1:49:45least it's not a day goes green her wider and no I really do like the stand
1:49:52was the one that has a little piece of a little piece of sculpture 2011 arrest
1:49:56but I think those look nice alright so in summary I definitely won't be getting
1:50:02the forty two millimeter black link bracelet Marco definitely will be
1:50:05getting the 42 millimeters stainless steel with the black leather I said I
1:50:09would be pre-ordering that one but that's a maybe for have a chance to try
1:50:13any of them so I might change my mind but i i don't think so I and John
1:50:20definitely in when I said definitely I really mean it this time won't be
1:50:24getting the 42 millimeters space grey sport and I haven't even seen his watch
1:50:29in person either by the way in any context so I would I will look at them
1:50:34at the store in person it could be that the that maybe I'll be won over by
1:50:38something that I think is
1:50:39pictures or vice versa be there are no plans to buy one now I think he would be
1:50:46silly of me not to ask our our spouses looking into buying them and I can tell
1:50:52you that aaron is completely uninterested in everything
1:50:55plausible and possible way so marco was tipped think she is is interested in
1:51:01general the concept but not that excited about version one and she she knows
1:51:08she's playing it smart she said that she knows version tuzla be way better and so
1:51:13is she she's going to wait she does she really actually doesn't want version one
1:51:18and she also has a little bit of skepticism about whether she wants to
1:51:22wear a watch it all cuz she also right now it doesn't we are watching us family
1:51:25right now so so she's going to at least sit out version one as far as you know
1:51:30so far and of course you know look all of our opinions should change you know
1:51:34maybe once we see them things will be different but right now she is saying
1:51:38wait for version two version 3 though because like you imagine if we do we
1:51:43agree that version to have the same cases this no you don't think so
1:51:47iPad 2 did everything is that had won the iPhone to do the same as the iPhone
1:51:5110 but I think the watch specifically I i mean with the exception of possible
1:51:56changes to the air gap I expect the second version especially becomes like
1:52:00you said it has early you know if you can sit a six-month delayed product I
1:52:03think that the next version of this watch will externally look more or less
1:52:07the same and just have an upgraded CPU and maybe a better / different screen
1:52:12and come out fairly shortly after this one that's that's my prediction there so
1:52:15if that's the case
1:52:17version 3 of the watches the one you want because you're hoping at that point
1:52:20it slims down or has a different look at how much you like to see I think that
1:52:25the next one version 2 will retain the same connections for the for the bands
1:52:31but I think it physical dimensions may change so it'll be a little thinner but
1:52:37the but the bands will remain functional on the new one on the 2nd gen shave a
1:52:42few millimeters if they did the screen
1:52:44nation I suppose then that case it wouldn't strictly be exactly identical
1:52:47you know like that it would actually be thinner but not like the same same
1:52:52little Airstream trailer same number buttons a middle ground design like the
1:52:55whole you know that it would be recognizably the same watch maybe I i
1:53:00dont
1:53:00I wouldn't libete competently either way right and then John what is Tina
1:53:05planning I tried to picture on it like because it's it's better for me if I can
1:53:10get someone else that they really wanted like it she was super excited about
1:53:16about means we would get whatever when she super excited about as long as it's
1:53:19not cold and then she would be the eBay Inc what do you think house is working
1:53:24you know but I would have to have something amiss but she's not excited
1:53:27about it so I can either so only two of the six of us are getting what I i'm not
1:53:35admitting it to myself in your probably right but sitting here now know it's
1:53:39only you know you're you're definitely getting one question is which one remind
1:53:45me of all of this in like two weeks thanks like two or three sponsors this
1:53:49week
1:53:50igloo audible and hover and we will see you next week
1:53:56now the show they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental john Kasay
1:54:12it was accidental and a team are cool
1:54:55have no doubt that the best selling one among nerds a best-selling one among
1:55:03listeners of our show among listeners of any tech podcast possibly among
1:55:08listeners have any podcast and definitely among attendees of WTC this
1:55:13year will be the forty two millimeter space great sport model with the black
1:55:18band that is like we're gonna see a million of those things among people we
1:55:23know yeah I think you're probably right because of the sport I think the Space
1:55:27Gray is far and away the best looking one just a little ones kinda like the
1:55:32empty the lifesavers iMac cases remember those at CompUSA when I'm a caminho much
1:55:38of colors they gave retailers empty I'm a cases with no guts inside them adjust
1:55:43the case themselves to see whether different colors look like I would like
1:55:46a watch that is a strap the case the glass but nothing inside it
1:55:51no screen no internals right just you could have it on your wrist occasionally
1:55:55like the dial I guess that was thought to have the dow connected to something
1:55:58or whatever
1:55:59press the button may be the only a vibration engineer to it would also
1:56:02occasionally vibrate but but nothing doesn't actually function just to get
1:56:07used to the idea do you want something on your wrist because that's what I need
1:56:11is like a training bra for watches and in some getting used to the idea or
1:56:16whatever the equivalent is in like a horse bridles or whatever someone who
1:56:20knows someone who plays poker tells all about like something to put on and get
1:56:23used to the idea that something is going to be gripping my risk and then maybe
1:56:27I'll pay the extra money to get the fully functional version I find it a
1:56:30little weird that you're so stressed out both of you are so stressed out about
1:56:33having something on your risk because I wasn't watching person for forever and I
1:56:38gave it up for years I couldn't say how many outside maybe 45 years I gave it a
1:56:43prime or not actually and i didnt wear watch in when I started wearing a watch
1:56:49again which was maybe years ago at first I was like oh my wrist and that lasted
1:56:56like two days and that was it and then suddenly I was extremely happy about
1:57:00having a super convenient time piece right on my
1:57:02so i John Deere here challenges aside I think they hear over blowing a bit
1:57:09you're over blowing a bit how difficult to do keep in mind that I don't know
1:57:15where my wedding ring any Mart I wore my wedding ring four years after getting
1:57:19married and you're right you do basically get used to it eventually I
1:57:23got used to it again in the wedding ring went off so like this type of thing
1:57:29where you do kind of get used to it but it is still kind of slightly
1:57:33inconvenient and occasionally snag some things and occasionally performed and
1:57:38you got a you know remember it and deal with it that's the type of thing that I
1:57:42say that I have antibodies against that I will eventually yes it's not a big
1:57:49deal at a wedding all time yes it's a very comfortable during its fine but
1:57:52every once in awhile it annoys me so why am I doing this and so no I don't want
1:57:56my wedding ring and you know it
1:57:59this March would have to earn its place them at risk by doing something useful
1:58:03for me I'm not even entirely sure that my phone has earned its place
1:58:07speaking of they continue to update the iPod Touch are probably still be buying
1:58:12them now to you when you go out do you feel naked if you don't have your phone
1:58:17on your person because when I absolutely not
1:58:19ok now what about you Marco oh yeah i wud
1:58:23when I go walk the dog I don't bring a wallet or usually any kind of keys or
1:58:30anything no cash on occasion but everyone thought I like I feel ok
1:58:34leaving the house without a wallet on foot at least but I would not leave it
1:58:39on my phone
1:58:40yes and I think they well jon is John but I think that
1:58:45you will come to that point with the watch it very quickly much quicker than
1:58:49you expected it does something useful for you I mean like to think think of
1:58:52all the all the times you say you saw me before I got my phone sex is like I was
1:58:56carrying out their cell phone with me most of the time it's like I didn't have
1:58:59a phone I don't care I have to tell you were hiding it from us know but I have
1:59:04you know sometimes you see me take or make a call on that phone message time
1:59:08it wasn't with me that wasn't me what to do anything or the only be with me like
1:59:11like a little thing to keep in the pocket by your door to break the glass
1:59:15in case your car
1:59:16the water like it's only there for emergencies not there actually be used
1:59:21it does not replace my life I have to remember to bring my wallet with me so I
1:59:24don't get you know pulled over and not have my license right I am I travel
1:59:28light and the watch it has the events that I guess I have to strap it to
1:59:34myself in the morning and I just always be with me but I can imagine forgetting
1:59:38to do that game they were going up another morning effort to put on my
1:59:41watch that thing that I bought for $300 that I found a use for