00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is connected episode five hundred and thirty eight today's show is brought to you by our excellent sponsors squarespace fitbot and zockdog i'm your annual chairman federico vittici and it's my pleasure to be joined by steven that's just how i'm gonna introduce i don't need a fancy title sure not even a last name in fact i mean
00:00:29 ◼ ► i would like i would like a title but i didn't earn one currently so so there's that uh but we we are joined also by our keynote chairman mike
00:00:41 ◼ ► do you want to give me the full mike all hurley thank you very much i mean what is that just mike that's
00:00:53 ◼ ► unbelievable michael whatever you want to call me it's fine but just give me the full name treatment i thank you for
00:00:59 ◼ ► covering for me last week i appreciate it my week exploded uh and i'm sorry to the passionate
00:01:04 ◼ ► ones for not being here it was a good practice run because you're gonna be gone for a while yes that is
00:01:08 ◼ ► coming soon oh boy uh we spoke about baby classes my experience with that in the pro show today go to
00:01:21 ◼ ► it wasn't the conversation wasn't about what you learned in baby class it was the social dynamics
00:01:29 ◼ ► yes desperate need for friends yes it's a better way to put it that yeah okay uh this is the show we're
00:01:37 ◼ ► going to start with some follow-out it's a report card season which is always fun mike tell us about
00:01:49 ◼ ► everybody liked it my report card uh no jason puts together this every year we all participate um we
00:01:56 ◼ ► also have an episode of upgrade that has gone up where i force jason to make his picks which he
00:02:03 ◼ ► never wants to do but i make him do it um which i enjoy doing and i like that episode a lot i actually
00:02:09 ◼ ► think if you don't usually listen to upgrade um i think this is a a really good episode to listen to
00:02:15 ◼ ► uh where we kind of break down each category we talk about it um and look at some of the the responses
00:02:21 ◼ ► that people gave and then give our own uh but you both do the thing that the bloggers do and post your
00:02:26 ◼ ► own responses in full on your websites too yes yes we are bloggers with blogs that's what we do yeah
00:02:35 ◼ ► i um i was listening to upgrade um really surprised by your five out of five on the ipad uh which i
00:02:46 ◼ ► understand why yeah i disagree with the idea that uh like i was actually listening to you and like
00:02:54 ◼ ► mentally saving this this feedback i disagree with the idea that you're not supposed to uh
00:03:02 ◼ ► ask for something more uh than what the ipad and ipad os is today sure um especially when and
00:03:09 ◼ ► i disagree because like especially when you're spending 2 000 euros on a product uh that is
00:03:14 ◼ ► advertised as a computer uh yeah but i'm the sucker in that scenario though okay and then that is fine
00:03:21 ◼ ► right like yeah i i was thinking of you in a at that point and then also was thinking of you later on
00:03:26 ◼ ► which i'll get to in a second uh but i i was thinking of you in that moment because i thought if
00:03:30 ◼ ► anybody i know is going to disagree with me it's federico for a good reason because you love the
00:03:35 ◼ ► ipad and want it to be more and i don't think that other people should necessarily feel the way that i
00:03:40 ◼ ► do but it was just i feel that way now it's like i'm if i keep asking for apple to make ipad os like
00:03:48 ◼ ► mac os i'm just going to continue to be sad about it forever oh yeah it's a very sad life that and
00:03:53 ◼ ► exactly and so i've just decided that this i i am where i am with the ipad and i am willing to spend
00:04:00 ◼ ► a lot of money infrequently to get that experience right like i'm not going to be upgrading my ipad at
00:04:09 ◼ ► the time like kind of the time frame that i upgrade my iphone say it'll probably be more like
00:04:14 ◼ ► an apple watch where it's once every few years when they do something that's good enough for me
00:04:20 ◼ ► and i'm actually pretty happy now that i upgrade fewer and fewer products right like on really now
00:04:27 ◼ ► for me the iphone is the only device that i upgrade annually and then everything else is more just like
00:04:34 ◼ ► whenever like my macbook air for example my m2 macbook air it's going to be a long time until i feel the
00:04:40 ◼ ► need to get another one of those right and and and my ipad is kind of fitting into that now that like
00:04:46 ◼ ► i can't imagine anything within the next few years that they would do that would make a significant
00:04:52 ◼ ► change to the old ipad pro and so i because i'm accepting it for what the ipad pro is i'm not like
00:04:59 ◼ ► desiring the m6 or whatever you know what i mean it's just like whatever you you just keep
00:05:04 ◼ ► i'll wait until you make it the thinnest whatever you know it's because it's the thinnest ipad ever
00:05:08 ◼ ► incredible screen so that is what it is the thing that i thought you were going to mention federico
00:05:13 ◼ ► was that i specifically maybe you haven't gotten to this part in the episode yet i was very surprised
00:05:23 ◼ ► i did have those complaints indeed but during the show because i was just reading jason's summary i'm
00:05:30 ◼ ► like who even thinks about that anymore it turns out that's me and i read your comment in full uh
00:05:36 ◼ ► because i didn't read the comments like i didn't read the full transcript before i didn't have it
00:05:39 ◼ ► uh but yeah i mean i can see what you're saying icloud is very uh oh yeah there's a there's a whole
00:05:46 ◼ ► story here actually okay um i wanted to stop paying for dropbox my annual renewal was up and i was like
00:05:56 ◼ ► is there a world in which i can stop paying for dropbox and uh you know i have all this icloud
00:06:01 ◼ ► storage that i never use and in theory they did those shared folders a couple of years ago like
00:06:08 ◼ ► what if i stop paying for dropbox and i keep everything in icloud drive it was a nightmare it
00:06:12 ◼ ► was an actual nightmare like an actual leap waking nightmare of me uh first of all like having to
00:06:18 ◼ ► download all of these um files from dropbox which was okay and then i kept them in local storage on
00:06:24 ◼ ► the ipad i organized all the folders and then when the time came that i wanted to transfer from on my
00:06:30 ◼ ► ipad that's the name of the local storage to icloud drive i figured well i'm just gonna drag and drop
00:06:36 ◼ ► everything and it's gonna work like dropbox it took i'm not kidding it took like three days for
00:06:42 ◼ ► this syncing to complete um whenever i was and i know that it's not my fiber connection because i use
00:06:48 ◼ ► my fiber connection to uh upload like video files and audio files on a weekly basis um and i know that
00:06:56 ◼ ► for example like a 20 gigabyte video file uh i can i can get it done in like 12 to 15 minutes uh with
00:07:03 ◼ ► dropbox in safari i don't even use the dropbox app i just open dropbox.com in safari select my video
00:07:10 ◼ ► file upload it and i see a progress bar that says 12 11 10 minutes like great it's connected to my fiber
00:07:18 ◼ ► connection it's it works beautifully with icloud drive everything is a mystery you don't have a proper
00:07:24 ◼ ► progress bar you see those trying to keep this show clean those icons in in icloud drive that
00:07:32 ◼ ► mean absolutely nothing we have to deal with these with dropbox and the mac too which is like
00:07:38 ◼ ► yeah those icons they don't mean anything and so john and i uh we lasted for like not even a single
00:07:46 ◼ ► week yeah i think it's worse than that the dropbox has the labels like the icons but on the mac and
00:07:54 ◼ ► icloud if you have a shared folder it says added by me added by mike like out to the side of it
00:08:00 ◼ ► like i do not need that ever like it is clogged especially if you use column view like a gentleman
00:08:07 ◼ ► it really is a mess mm-hmm i would i would say that when i saw icloud syncing i wasn't thinking about
00:08:14 ◼ ► icloud drive like i was thinking about like because you're we all remember the days when like who knows if
00:08:20 ◼ ► your notes are going to sync oh no that hasn't happened in quite some time yeah so that was what
00:08:26 ◼ ► i was surprised about it but even then i understand your point but i guess this maybe is where me you
00:08:31 ◼ ► think differently i would never have assumed that was going to work i just i would i would never think
00:08:36 ◼ ► about it i would never do it because even the like shared numbers documents that i have or whatever
00:08:43 ◼ ► sometimes i open them and they're like oh well this is a conflicted copy now and it's like i don't
00:08:47 ◼ ► don't know what's going on here but that's not right though it's not right it's not right i mean like we
00:08:52 ◼ ► are paying for this stuff like and i think we sort of like because i have been part of this like we sort
00:08:58 ◼ ► of just gotten complacent they're like oh yeah it's icloud but like no it shouldn't have to be this way
00:09:04 ◼ ► it shouldn't it shouldn't yeah so anyway the summaries where i was curious like those summaries
00:09:12 ◼ ► on upgrades uh i assume uh jason or you through everything at a large language model to get like
00:09:20 ◼ ► the the summary of all the people for every single section we spoke about this on upgrade plus
00:09:27 ◼ ► ah okay i haven't gotten to that okay jason or he doesn't pay for it used one no i don't pay
00:09:34 ◼ ► but he he used it as a summary but heavily edited it nice nice that's the approach yeah
00:09:39 ◼ ► i'm so happy he did this it was actually me and him were talking off the show and we were talking
00:09:46 ◼ ► about that and and i think i've recommended he try it because it's too much because i can't read it
00:09:52 ◼ ► all like you know like that with the full transcript that he has it's just like obscene because people
00:09:57 ◼ ► like youtube use it as an opportunity to actually blog inside of the google form yeah i turned in
00:10:04 ◼ ► 2200 words i think this time right that's like terrorism to jason i don't know why why do you
00:10:10 ◼ ► do that just give a line and then do what you give it give your full blog post on your website if jason
00:10:16 ◼ ► didn't like it he would put a word limit on the text i have said to him i've told him many times and
00:10:21 ◼ ► he's like i don't i don't know you can do if you can do that on google i'm like yeah you can but he
00:10:25 ◼ ► doesn't do it but i think he should do it but he doesn't so he is so yes he is kind of asking for it
00:10:37 ◼ ► he didn't do it twice or it's like we just drop a url on each one and it's the full full comments um
00:10:44 ◼ ► uh-huh i struggle with a screenshot yeah can you imagine i struggled with it this year a little bit
00:10:51 ◼ ► because i didn't know where to talk about apple intelligence and so i shoved it into my iphone
00:11:02 ◼ ► and uh and i don't envy i mean jason and i've talked about this uh about like how do you like
00:11:09 ◼ ► the wearables category right like does the apple watch stay in there does the vision pro go in there i
00:11:14 ◼ ► argued the vision pro was separate but he's stuck in wearables like it's hard to make this adapt over
00:11:20 ◼ ► time but um i stuck apple intelligence to the iphone because that's how apple talks about apple
00:11:26 ◼ ► intelligence right they advertise it as an iphone feature and even on like mpu we did a review of
00:11:33 ◼ ► apple intelligence a couple weeks ago we basically talked about it in the context of the phone and i
00:11:39 ◼ ► hadn't really thought about that i wrote this um kind of as we were prepping that mpu episode and
00:11:45 ◼ ► i kind of realized like in my mind at least they're kind of two sides of a coin right now because i think
00:11:50 ◼ ► that's how apple talks about them yeah see to me it fit fit very naturally in apple's operating
00:11:57 ◼ ► systems yeah that was the category that i put my apple intelligence comments into because i didn't
00:12:03 ◼ ► think it was fair to do it to the iphone in a way i see why you would do it too though like i i think
00:12:08 ◼ ► there is a that's part of the fun of it i agree with his wearables saying apple classes division pro is
00:12:14 ◼ ► wearable like it's in that bucket like when it comes to the earnings report but i think it's in
00:12:20 ◼ ► the trying not to create 20 categories right and and it breaks the historical data which i really liked
00:12:28 ◼ ► this year because it's 10 that he was able to to do more of that um mixed it up a bit yeah mix it up a bit
00:12:36 ◼ ► so i good asset this the report card i was gonna say this it's good for like the community i i'm glad
00:12:43 ◼ ► he does it i know it's a mountain of work um and i know that people like federico and i make it harder
00:12:52 ◼ ► so we had some follow-up by listener steven that i wanted to bring to the show and have a little
00:13:00 ◼ ► discussion about this because i think it's an interesting comment uh steven wrote in on uh blue sky i
00:13:05 ◼ ► think to say uh tici mentioned apple doesn't have a foundational large language model of their own
00:13:10 ◼ ► but they do a three billion parameter local model and larger model served via private cloud compute
00:13:17 ◼ ► not as performant but they exist um this was mentioned in the apple machine learning research
00:13:25 ◼ ► blog last year the same blog post where i and other people went a little crazy because apple confirmed
00:13:33 ◼ ► that they had already scraped uh every single website in existence with apple bot to power
00:13:38 ◼ ► apple intelligents but these details were provided you went a little crazy is that what you said oh you
00:13:52 ◼ ► we were a great no i just i just was surprised look i reckon no no no look i am fully aware that i'm a
00:14:00 ◼ ► person of strong emotions uh yeah sure the passion it's it's the passion it's sometimes you know what
00:14:07 ◼ ► sometimes it overflows and uh and and you gotta be mindful of of it uh but yes that's what i said um
00:14:16 ◼ ► and i was right but we don't need to go over all of that again uh so uh this is an interesting follow-up which
00:14:23 ◼ ► um i i obviously i remember this uh because i this is what's going to be part of uh the ios 18.4 in theory rollout i just i
00:14:37 ◼ ► just i simply didn't think to address it uh because i think what we're looking at here is something
00:14:43 ◼ ► completely different from what i meant and from what we were discussing uh last week i think we did the
00:14:50 ◼ ► deep seek uh segment um and seek deep seek uh we were obviously talking i was obviously referencing the
00:15:01 ◼ ► the sort of large language model that hundreds of millions of people use these days which is uh in
00:15:09 ◼ ► in you know most people just say chat gpt uh that sort of become the the generic term almost like an ipod
00:15:17 ◼ ► to describe uh this entire generation of of chatbots uh most people when they think first of all
00:15:24 ◼ ► parentheses most people don't call them large language models or llms most people just say chatbot or
00:15:30 ◼ ► chat gpt or just chat which is also something that i've heard um but that's what i meant like
00:15:38 ◼ ► when i said apple doesn't have a large language model i i meant apple doesn't have anything that can
00:15:44 ◼ ► compete with chat gpt or gemini or cloud or deep seek or llama or whatever um so but but this correction
00:15:54 ◼ ► is interesting uh because let's talk about this these foundational models that apple pre-announced last year
00:16:00 ◼ ► um and i'm gonna quote from this article um our foundation models are fine-tuned for users everyday
00:16:08 ◼ ► activities and can dynamically specialize themselves on the fly for the task at hand uh they mentioned they
00:16:15 ◼ ► use small neural network modules adapters pre-trained models they're fine-tuned for uh specific tasks on your
00:16:23 ◼ ► device so all these to say this is the technology that's gonna power the uh pre-announced uh siri that
00:16:34 ◼ ► will be able to perform actions across multiple apps for you uh we are all sort of expecting this ability to
00:16:43 ◼ ► show up in 18.4 at some point maybe even today maybe even right now who knows is there a new beta out
00:16:49 ◼ ► uh i have no idea uh it'll show up i don't think so no okay good thank you um what apple has built here
00:16:58 ◼ ► is a domain-based large language model that can recognize a handful and by a handful i pretty sure that the
00:17:10 ◼ ► the initial rollout will support 12 categories of domains now when i mention domains i mentioned i
00:17:20 ◼ ► i mean that this model this 3 billion local model and a bigger one in private cloud compute
00:17:28 ◼ ► will be able to handle actions in your favorite apps organized by category such as is this a document
00:17:39 ◼ ► reader application is this a music listening application is this a task manager like actual domains
00:17:55 ◼ ► this would be what in the tech industry these days they call a specialized model it's a large language
00:18:03 ◼ ► model built with roughly the same technologies that are behind other large language models but it's been
00:18:10 ◼ ► trained it's been fine-tuned to work with specialized categories of tasks this is what apple is building
00:18:18 ◼ ► um obviously very different from what we are seeing these days with a chat bot where you can go and write
00:18:28 ◼ ► down something in any language and have a more or less a conversation with um i also wanted to mention the
00:18:36 ◼ ► benchmarks that that apple used last year uh it's good to keep them in mind and i'm really curious to see
00:18:43 ◼ ► uh if uh if and when they will get updated uh by apple whenever this uh large language model with the with the uh
00:18:52 ◼ ► task integration comes out uh last year apple benchmarked their model uh against saying that it was
00:19:00 ◼ ► outperforming uh llama 3 8 billion mistral 7 billion and free 3 mini um interesting uh interesting
00:19:10 ◼ ► stats um they also mentioned in footnote um they also mentioned in footnote that they compared their
00:19:16 ◼ ► model against uh gpt 3.5 turbo and gpt 4 preview um uh another mistral a couple of mistral models
00:19:27 ◼ ► uh and llama both the small model the 8 billion one and the 70 billion instruct model how hang on
00:19:36 ◼ ► hang on hang on hang on how many of those names did you just make up i actually reading them because
00:19:43 ◼ ► they are in our documents they're all real names the the ai industry has a severe naming problem they
00:19:50 ◼ ► do uh all of these names suck they're terrible uh but here we are uh so for con to to explain this in
00:19:59 ◼ ► in very simple terms um last year apple benchmarked their upcoming so still we we still haven't seen
00:20:07 ◼ ► this model i i'm i'm guessing uh they benchmarked against chat gpt 3.5 turbo uh which nobody's using
00:20:16 ◼ ► anymore they benchmarked against a preview version of gpt 4 which nobody's using anymore because we're all
00:20:24 ◼ ► using gpt 4.0 um they did not include any gemini model um just today uh google had a big rollout of
00:20:35 ◼ ► gemini 2.0 in multiple flavors uh flash uh pro flash thinking like they google is doing all sorts of wild
00:20:44 ◼ ► things um and in apple's benchmarks um and in apple's benchmarks there is obviously in in in
00:20:51 ◼ ► none of these benchmarks uh apple is not considering any reasoning models but i give them a pass on this
00:20:59 ◼ ► one because i believe in the first half of 2024 uh reasoning models were not exactly out in the wild
00:21:07 ◼ ► uh available for people to test uh but then again whenever this large language model comes out it'll
00:21:13 ◼ ► be interesting to see if apple benchmarks against uh recent models let alone reasoning models by open ai
00:21:21 ◼ ► and google uh also in the meantime by the way uh apple was benchmarking against llama 3 llama 3.3 is out
00:21:30 ◼ ► and uh very different from from that version that apple including in the benchmarks so all this to
00:21:39 ◼ ► say uh we still have to see this large language model it is not the kind of large language model that people
00:21:48 ◼ ► are used to interacting with on a daily basis i think um my personal opinion is that if apple could offer
00:21:58 ◼ ► today a large language model uh so to speak like a siri gpt comparable to what's on the market today
00:22:07 ◼ ► i think they would obviously do that uh if they could they would do it but they can't because they don't
00:22:17 ◼ ► have the technology i don't even they must be like i would be i would i would die to know that siri gpt what
00:22:26 ◼ ► stage they are at right now are they in pre-training are they in actual training like i would love to know
00:22:35 ◼ ► how that thing is moving um apple is taking for now apple is trying to to to to there's an expression i'm
00:22:44 ◼ ► sure in the english language to make the best out of a bad situation that they're in um they are releasing
00:22:52 ◼ ► these specialized models and they have been for the past few months with apple intelligence cleanup male
00:22:59 ◼ ► categories genmoji image playgrounds these are all specialized models that do one thing
00:23:13 ◼ ► and they're doing this because this is all they can do with the training that they have been able
00:23:19 ◼ ► to do so far and app intents the upcoming up intents are going to be another example of apple releasing
00:23:27 ◼ ► smaller specialized models that can in part run on device and anything else goes off to private car
00:23:35 ◼ ► compute so yes technically speaking it is a large language model but is it the large language model
00:23:42 ◼ ► that most people globally in 2025 now expect probably not this is not to say that what apple
00:23:50 ◼ ► is doing is not interesting because i think it is but i just wanted to address this follow-up
00:23:56 ◼ ► because i think it's a i think it's an important conversation to have regarding apples approach
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00:26:19 ◼ ► there's a new category of apps that i'm seeing people talk about that are being called timeline apps
00:26:28 ◼ ► it's a good name i think it's a i know that you don't like i never no no i like it no no i don't
00:26:33 ◼ ► like i don't like i don't dislike new names okay so the guy who made up his own name you know yeah i
00:26:40 ◼ ► just no i so i said i said i said i don't dislike names i i i dislike certain like platitudes or like
00:26:46 ◼ ► phrases that get used yeah yeah yeah this i like this timeline apps is just actually just a great
00:26:51 ◼ ► it's a it should be a larger catch all than it is like at the moment timeline apps seems to be
00:26:56 ◼ ► describing apps that like pull in a bunch of different timelines into a unified but i actually
00:27:02 ◼ ► think just blue sky is a timeline app right i think it is a better name than a twitter app which is
00:27:09 ◼ ► kind of like the easiest way to describe now like oh yeah like ivory and like they're just twitter but
00:27:16 ◼ ► they're not anyway timeline apps is like a new term being used to describe apps that are aggregating
00:27:21 ◼ ► different timelines we had touched on reader the new reader in the past and it all kind of said
00:27:28 ◼ ► this isn't this isn't for us uh tapestry just came out which is from the icon factory which is their
00:27:34 ◼ ► kind of like response to a post twitter world so they they used to make twitterific when twitterific
00:27:41 ◼ ► went away they did not do what tapbots did they did not just like work on making a mastodon client
00:27:48 ◼ ► they decided they were going to take a break or try something new and they have come out with this and
00:27:53 ◼ ► uh federico wrote on mac stories about this uh linking to um the piece that david pierce wrote about on the
00:27:59 ◼ ► verge and i kind of like echo a lot of what federico was saying like it's great that these apps exist
00:28:08 ◼ ► but they're not for me yeah and like tapestry is early but tapestry and reader have a similar
00:28:14 ◼ ► problem at the moment at least in that while they are places to view the content you can't really do
00:28:21 ◼ ► anything with it that you would do if you were logged into the service right you can't like reply to posts
00:28:27 ◼ ► you can't like posts like they don't yet allow you to do much it just will send you out to an app
00:28:33 ◼ ► and i just think for me i don't want youtube rss and tweets in the same feed like i don't
00:28:43 ◼ ► they are absolutely massively different forms of content for me now what i could do is just have
00:28:50 ◼ ► blue sky mastodon and threads in theory in one app but even that to me doesn't work now i think like
00:29:00 ◼ ► my experience in these different places is different and i prefer it yes that way um i was thinking about
00:29:09 ◼ ► this and and i and i thought of like this analogy of like sometimes i see these videos by by so-called
00:29:19 ◼ ► influencers being like hey why don't you do the the blender diet where you take all these ingredients
00:29:27 ◼ ► and instead of cooking them individually you put everything in a blender and so you see these these
00:29:32 ◼ ► people doing crazy things like oh let's take the pasta let's take the meat and some carrots and
00:29:45 ◼ ► meal that contains all of the nutrients that you need but in doing that sure you have a unified meal
00:29:53 ◼ ► but you're losing the taste of of every individual component and so to me this is like a sort of
00:29:59 ◼ ► equivalent to that like yes you have a unified everything but in the process you're using the
00:30:07 ◼ ► the individual characteristics of the single components yeah yes they they um pasta isn't
00:30:16 ◼ ► an inherently interesting because of its flavor it's the texture that the flavors are applied to
00:30:23 ◼ ► that provides that to be a good experience i do not want to eat a pasta smoothie that is removing for me the
00:30:31 ◼ ► whole point of even having the pasta i would put something that would be inherently better for me
00:30:36 ◼ ► in that smoothie so now i'm on a different different track like i i think it's great that the weirdly in a way
00:30:44 ◼ ► more open web that we have in 2025 allows for people to make projects like this for the people that want them
00:30:51 ◼ ► yes but like i was playing around with tapestry today and like i was loading up a bunch of things in it and
00:30:57 ◼ ► it's like i i don't even really want to consume rss this way you know like this this isn't really
00:31:04 ◼ ► my thing but i am very happy that there are new services are created now that start with the idea of
00:31:15 ◼ ► this should be a thing right that like that you could build an app and get the content in from that
00:31:22 ◼ ► service into a different app like i do think that is a very good thing that allows for this but i just
00:31:29 ◼ ► don't think that this is the way that i want to to be a internet citizen i think the more i think about
00:31:38 ◼ ► it the more i feel like it's great that these apps exist and i know that there's a group of people a
00:31:44 ◼ ► group of like there there is a part of our audience who is really into these sorts of apps i am concerned
00:32:22 ◼ ► they're good in spirit but ultimately most people will always be better served by clients
00:32:35 ◼ ► so yeah that's my concern steven do you have any thoughts on these i agree with you all i would
00:32:42 ◼ ► rather have an rss app that is like built for rss and all the little things i want including feedback
00:32:49 ◼ ► support uh i want to watch youtube videos on youtube where i can save for later or comment or you know like i
00:32:57 ◼ ► i want the experience a bit more natively i think it's great uh i mean obviously we all three of us
00:33:04 ◼ ► make a living on the open web and we're very excited about this but that they're not going to replace
00:33:12 ◼ ► so speaking of apps uh in our group thread you all seemed excited about the new instapaper
00:33:19 ◼ ► yeah um one that there is a new version of instapaper which is always just a nice thing to see
00:33:24 ◼ ► instapaper 9.1 but they've added some new interesting features like they they have good support for
00:33:29 ◼ ► handling logged in sites which could be good for six or seven of your favorite websites if that's
00:33:34 ◼ ► a thing that you care about and this just sparked a conversation between you and and you three so that
00:33:40 ◼ ► we wait three there's only two of you so it's you two and john otj uh we're talking about how you use read
00:33:46 ◼ ► it later and and i just said apple notes is my read it later yeah but erica seemed really intrigued about
00:33:51 ◼ ► that i mean who wouldn't yeah well please please expand on this if you can so read it later services to me
00:34:00 ◼ ► are pointless for me because they just become apps that have loads of long articles that never get read
00:34:08 ◼ ► okay right i learned this a long time ago i used to use instapaper i used to use pocket they just
00:34:13 ◼ ► became these just like holes that i would put videos and articles in and they would never be touched
00:34:20 ◼ ► again right i think that's really common i think a lot of people feel that way and so for me information
00:34:28 ◼ ► that i read like articles that i read they are for work that's what i'm reading for like my
00:34:37 ◼ ► rss right so i where i get the articles that i want to read is from rss so i have reader so i'll open
00:34:43 ◼ ► up rss i'll do this a few times a week most likely because i get the day-to-day news i'm consuming in
00:34:49 ◼ ► other ways right i'm seeing it in discord i'm seeing it on mastodon i'm seeing it on blue sky i'm
00:34:54 ◼ ► listening to on podcasts right it's kind of like from an interest perspective how do i consume my news
00:35:00 ◼ ► but then i need to also consume things in more detail for work and that's where rss comes in right
00:35:07 ◼ ► and so i have a bunch of fees to a bunch of sites that i like and trust and that's when i'll go
00:35:12 ◼ ► through that a few times a week to make sure i kind of triage on what's happening when i find an article
00:35:17 ◼ ► that i think i will want for this show i share it to an apple note for the show so i have i have them for the
00:35:25 ◼ ► my kind of news focus shows so i have like one for upgrade one for connected and i will just share
00:35:30 ◼ ► these links to that and i could see those in other places so if i saw an interesting link
00:35:34 ◼ ► on mastodon i could share it to that note too and then on the morning of the show i open my apple note
00:35:40 ◼ ► and i have a bunch of links there i rearrange them and so like maybe some links are um connected to
00:35:47 ◼ ► each other yeah uh and i also will kind of like separate them into topics like i do this for upgrade
00:35:53 ◼ ► right so like i'll rearrange them and like all right these are the rumor roundup ones uh these are the
00:35:58 ◼ ► upstream ones or whatever and then i will go through and i will click on those links and i'll read the
00:36:04 ◼ ► articles then i'll delete them from my apple note hmm now let me tell you something that happens with
00:36:11 ◼ ► this apple notes over time it just gets lost and broken so at the moment in my connected follow-up note
00:36:20 ◼ ► i have nine rich links right so i have okay five about pebble which we might talk about at some point
00:36:28 ◼ ► and then i have a few about alt store which i was wondering if we're going to talk about today
00:36:32 ◼ ► but i don't think we're going to it's too too sticky of a situation i wouldn't say oh god i was it's
00:36:37 ◼ ► just there are things it's like this thing happened apple got mad everyone's mad and no one's happy and
00:36:43 ◼ ► that's the end of it that kind of isn't really i would be surprised if me and jason didn't talk
00:36:48 ◼ ► about this on monday what does the word prove even mean you know exactly i think that is i genuinely i
00:36:53 ◼ ► think me and jason will have a conversation about that i wasn't excited to talk about it on this show
00:36:58 ◼ ► today and none of you put it in the notes and we have things that i care more about so we're talking
00:37:02 ◼ ► about those but my point is there are nine things in here my uh preview says connected 80 attachments
00:37:09 ◼ ► so there's like 70 things that it thinks there is in this note but they're not there so over time
00:37:16 ◼ ► apple notes will get lost with these rich links but that's that's my read it later system i just
00:37:22 ◼ ► take links and i put them into notes with the little uh extension because then it gives you the rich
00:37:27 ◼ ► preview in notes shortcuts can't do this shortcuts can shortcuts could never do this and it always makes
00:37:32 ◼ ► me sad uh that it can give you the little rich preview and then that is how i use my that is how i read
00:37:38 ◼ ► things later yeah that's not a read later system but it is how i read later so it is yeah well it's you're
00:37:45 ◼ ► basically turning apple notes into a mini bookmark manager that's what you're doing what's the
00:37:51 ◼ ► difference between a bookmark manager and a read it later system well uh uh typically a really later
00:37:57 ◼ ► system would support like an uh like a text only article view i mean when i click on it often it opens
00:38:04 ◼ ► into safari which has a text only view by default you are you are doing the galaxy brain move of i've
00:38:11 ◼ ► rolled my own yeah rolling your own using default apple stuff which is something that i've that i've
00:38:18 ◼ ► also done myself yeah look we've all experimented with safari reading list you know we don't have to be
00:38:24 ◼ ► ashamed of that no yeah i'm ashamed uh do you mike um are your articles only saved as potential topics
00:38:38 ◼ ► for a podcast yeah okay so you you don't read anything else on the web okay okay why would i do that you
00:38:50 ◼ ► know not just for your own personal curiosity like i don't know i don't know why would you read i see
00:38:58 ◼ ► things you know like you see yeah that's good that's good and and what i'll say is i do leave some things in
00:39:05 ◼ ► reader that are for me that i never read you know right right like this is the thing of like oh yeah
00:39:12 ◼ ► in theory in reader there are some articles in some feeds like so i have like five club max stories
00:39:19 ◼ ► articles here that i want to read one of them's going back to october of 2024 sure i'm sure you'll get
00:39:25 ◼ ► to it eventually hey look dude that's like one errant mark has read away from being gone yeah yeah but
00:39:34 ◼ ► also that's fine though right okay it's not like a it's not like a personal memory i'm losing here
00:39:40 ◼ ► i have my entire insta paper history and when i switched to good links imported all of it i got
00:39:47 ◼ ► everything it's like sometimes look sometimes you've got some articles that are left unread from a website that
00:39:54 ◼ ► you like and they break their rss feed and then you lose them and you're like well goodbye articles i
00:39:59 ◼ ► don't know who's ever who's ever broken an rss the thing is i'm talking about someone specific here but
00:40:07 ◼ ► everybody that i know is going to think i'm talking about them because everybody does it everyone breaks
00:40:12 ◼ ► their rss feeds was it drank but but when that happens it's like well okay goodbye articles you know
00:40:18 ◼ ► like they're gone now it's fine they're gone life moves on life you know what life does move on life
00:40:25 ◼ ► moves on if something is that if an article is that important i'll see it again you know it will come
00:40:31 ◼ ► back to me it will come back to me the universe will bring it back yeah yeah it will bring it back to me
00:40:36 ◼ ► and that's that's fine all right well that was uh that was interesting my system is read it later
00:40:43 ◼ ► maybe that's my yeah i mean that's really everybody's system you're just doing exactly but i'm the only
00:40:49 ◼ ► one that'll own it you know i'm the only one that's here owning it i currently i currently have seven
00:40:58 ◼ ► unread things and good links a couple of them uh are here because i need to save them to dev and
00:41:10 ◼ ► a link to some software i'm going to check out for an mpu and like a couple things are things i'm going
00:41:17 ◼ ► to read so what is good links then it's a read it later app so what's a bookmarking app
00:41:25 ◼ ► like raindrop for example pinboard no no people don't use pinboard anymore that's true but it is
00:41:31 ◼ ► one though even though you don't it was one yeah it was one yes okay it's still around okay is it
00:41:38 ◼ ► though like you subscribe and you pay for it and then you never get access to the features and you
00:41:42 ◼ ► try to email the guy and they never get back to you so like i don't know is it wow this website
00:41:47 ◼ ► looks terrible yeah it's it's real it's just a bunch of plain text with some buttons on it okay
00:41:53 ◼ ► very different to raindrop um so with raindrop what you're not reading it looks like an rss app
00:42:00 ◼ ► no no no so raindrop is is it lets you or it lets you save web pages as bookmarks with more controls
00:42:11 ◼ ► that you would normally get from uh from safari's built-in bookmarks feature okay you can create folders
00:42:20 ◼ ► collections given custom icons have multiple like view options save cached permanent versions of web
00:42:29 ◼ ► pages um like they give you basically a lot of controls uh people see there's there's a very
00:42:36 ◼ ► fine difference i think between a bookmarking app and a read later app in the sense that like
00:42:42 ◼ ► you can here's how i would explain it to you you can use a bookmarking app as a read later app but
00:42:50 ◼ ► usually you cannot do the opposite you you cannot use a read later app as a bookmark manager
00:42:57 ◼ ► because the read the typical modern read later app has the text only view lets you listen to articles
00:43:07 ◼ ► lets you tag them integrates with newsletters like that sort of thing and then what's readwise
00:43:13 ◼ ► what is that right so readwise started many years ago as a service that sort of collected your kindle highlights
00:43:23 ◼ ► okay they launched this that's a highlights app it's a highlight it's a it's actually a highlights
00:43:30 ◼ ► and flashcards there are too many apps for reading all right i'm just gonna say it i'm just gonna be out
00:43:34 ◼ ► here saying it everyone needs to stop reading there's too many apps all right don't listen to mike
00:43:41 ◼ ► don't listen that's bad advice they launched this spin-off a couple of years ago called readwise
00:43:46 ◼ ► reader which is what i use it's a read letter app terribly name terribly terribly terribly name nice
00:43:52 ◼ ► icon though that i really like the icon i think they have a nice looking what's wrong with read rise
00:44:06 ◼ ► and the mac app was pretty bad what do you mean what's the problem steven said bad names like what's
00:44:13 ◼ ► wrong with the name except the fact that i can't say it that's the reason no one can say it yeah
00:44:17 ◼ ► better than reader though right because that one is just reader with two e's well yeah man i got to
00:44:24 ◼ ► say uh reader classic just like totally breaking down on ios already oh really yeah sometimes like tap
00:44:31 ◼ ► an article and just doesn't load anything uh so i switched to unread on the iphone you know it works
00:44:36 ◼ ► great nice and fast and what is that bookmarking app it's a rss client and you can send things to any
00:44:45 ◼ ► number of also unread also not a good name unread because that no like the name is fine but it's like
00:44:53 ◼ ► too hard to find these these things you know yeah what is it with rss bookmarking like why are all these
00:45:02 ◼ ► apps named this way you know what i mean like reader read wise unread i mean really marco did
00:45:07 ◼ ► the best job instapaper is a very good name like very true yep i think pocket was also really pocket
00:45:14 ◼ ► is also a great name yeah pocket might actually be my favorite name because you sometimes just put
00:45:20 ◼ ► something in your pocket and you forget about it which is exactly the point of what happens with
00:45:23 ◼ ► why don't you name your kid pocket you know if you love it so much because i'm not going to forget
00:45:28 ◼ ► about her put her in my pocket pocket pocket hardly that sounds good that's a terrible name
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00:48:15 ◼ ► big news y'all it's been one year of the vision pro already this just makes me sad this just i
00:48:22 ◼ ► didn't really i was honestly hoping i could get through this week about doing this nope
00:48:27 ◼ ► but here we are i will say i when i was roughing in the notion i just had this as a topic and federico
00:48:33 ◼ ► put a gif of a tumbleweed which is very funny um i opened i opened notion was like oh man i'm sorry
00:48:41 ◼ ► and i didn't really want to do this yeah well we got to do it we got to do it i reread my review
00:48:48 ◼ ► uh this week okay uh i'm very proud of it like i think it's i think it's the maybe one that i think
00:48:54 ◼ ► it's the best thing i wrote last year very happy with how it came out um i'm also wearing the exact
00:49:00 ◼ ► jacket today which led me to a question because i had this debate with somebody in real life
00:49:12 ◼ ► it's a zip-up hoodie it's a jacket no no because it has to be made of hoodie material to be a hoodie
00:49:19 ◼ ► right disagree if it's made out of the same material as a it's about it's about how you get
00:49:28 ◼ ► it on do you get in it with a zipper or do you pull it over your head that's a no no no no no
00:49:33 ◼ ► think about what you're saying a hoodie is about why you put it on no it's got a hood yeah but
00:49:38 ◼ ► jackets have hoods rain jackets rain jackets have hoods they're not hoodies right but rain jackets
00:49:43 ◼ ► are for rain wear a hoodie in the rain see how that makes you feel yeah this is like judging from the
00:49:48 ◼ ► material this is not a jacket anyway you're wearing a hoodie wow that did not go my way and this is the
00:49:58 ◼ ► most interesting part of this segment is it a hoodie or not that's the game we play yeah you know maybe
00:50:05 ◼ ► vision pro a hoodie is vision pro i challenge robot or not to take this on what's a jacket what's a hoodie
00:50:13 ◼ ► do it okay just put it out there i know you're listening uh so i've read it and um a couple things
00:50:21 ◼ ► jumped out at me as as still being pretty good the first one is that i still think uh that the
00:50:29 ◼ ► pass-through video is very impressive but not the future like i don't think seeing the world through
00:50:35 ◼ ► cameras and screens is where this will end up um but i closed my review with a bunch of questions like
00:50:43 ◼ ► will we all be wearing computers on our faces in the future will vision os be able to grow
00:50:48 ◼ ► beyond its ipad roots and become a more general use computer and uh i don't think we're any closer to
00:50:55 ◼ ► those answers like it is it is i think become less of a computer than the ipad because it doesn't have
00:51:01 ◼ ► any software and you have to put on your face and it's really expensive and i don't know i'm i'm not
00:51:07 ◼ ► using mine i don't think about it unless we're talking about it on a show yeah i don't know it's
00:51:14 ◼ ► been it's been it's been rough okay uh let's let's rip this band-aid off um this is obviously very sad
00:51:21 ◼ ► for me because i had such a high hopes for for this device and i really thought it was gonna
00:51:27 ◼ ► change like this is not a hyperbole i really thought it was gonna change my life in the sense
00:51:30 ◼ ► of like this is a brand new type of computer i've been working with computers for the past 16 years
00:51:38 ◼ ► i thought i saw the future and i thought oh i'm gonna be wearing this thing every single day
00:51:44 ◼ ► i basically never use it anymore and i gotta be honest with you guys i i have thought about
00:51:50 ◼ ► selling it to be honest you can't get anything for the market is so bad there's gotta be
00:51:57 ◼ ► some rando in italy you need a sucker i need it available is it still unavailable in italy it's
00:52:04 ◼ ► unavailable in italy so that you might you might get a better price than places where it's available
00:52:09 ◼ ► yeah it plays in my face but but but but you know it's also the first one and you know i kind of feel
00:52:18 ◼ ► bad about it because hey who knows maybe maybe they're gonna do like i don't think i'm gonna do it
00:52:23 ◼ ► i don't think i don't think you should sell it i have i am i am not i'm just saying i am not going to
00:52:29 ◼ ► but i have thought about it but you want to you want to well i mean do you hate money i don't uh you
00:52:36 ◼ ► know well but if i could return it for the same amount of money that's a different question to if
00:52:40 ◼ ► i could get 10 of the value sure sure but the truth of the reality of the situation is this thing is
00:52:49 ◼ ► sitting unused in a drawer on my nightstand and has been for the past several months when i'm home alone
00:52:58 ◼ ► like any typical afternoon i i just prefer to work on my ipad pro uh it's the computer i want to use
00:53:06 ◼ ► i can use my magic keyboard with it it's got all the apps that i want to use now the vision pro
00:53:12 ◼ ► could have the apps i want to use but apple doesn't let me use my ipad's magic keyboard with it for
00:53:19 ◼ ► reasons um when i'm with sylvia i cannot quote what i were in documents but i don't want to use it when
00:53:27 ◼ ► i'm around her because i don't want to be the person isolating himself you know next to his partner i
00:53:34 ◼ ► wore it in my house one time and mary was like do not bring that back into the house yes exactly yeah
00:53:39 ◼ ► exactly like it's not it's not a good look um when i'm doing usually i got like i got like a couple
00:53:45 ◼ ► of hours um to do my things like read my articles on like mike um watch videos play some video games
00:53:52 ◼ ► at night i i got that hour hour and a half to do my quote-unquote media consumption and i don't want to
00:54:01 ◼ ► put it on in that moment either because i'm in bed i got my dogs and sylvia next to me i don't know it's
00:54:07 ◼ ► kind of just awkward you know just oh i'm i'm in bed and i'm wearing a headset with a person sleeping
00:54:15 ◼ ► next to me i don't know it's you know it's it's awkward um in public i can i cannot use this thing
00:54:22 ◼ ► in public you know okay because i you know people are gonna look at you you're gonna look like an
00:54:26 ◼ ► idiot and even like even if i'm waiting in the car for 30 minutes or something i just feel very
00:54:33 ◼ ► self-aware of local italian news exactly like people taking pictures of you people making fun
00:54:39 ◼ ► of you now i have enough confidence to absolutely not care about it but i am concerned about the risk
00:54:48 ◼ ► of somebody trying to break into my car and i don't know robbing me at gunpoint or something if i'm using
00:54:55 ◼ ► the vision pro in in my car in rome you know that has happened you know people you know robbing you
00:55:02 ◼ ► because of your watch or your phone so like i i don't want to do it either so the reality is that
00:55:10 ◼ ► i'm not using this thing even if i could uh even even if even if i wanted to apple doesn't let me
00:55:17 ◼ ► because it doesn't integrate with ipad os and my ipad pro the third-party app ecosystem is pretty
00:55:22 ◼ ► much dead um there's nothing new and interesting that catches my attention that i want to try
00:55:29 ◼ ► it's a shame because i really think vision os looks cool and it looks like the future and for a moment in
00:55:37 ◼ ► time which i will cherish forever uh the the vision pro felt like a revolution but the thing is that
00:55:50 ◼ ► time and it kind of feels like apple is sort of like a lost interest in it or lost not interested
00:55:58 ◼ ► they have lost momentum i think i don't think they had a choice with the way that the year has gone
00:56:03 ◼ ► though and and and yeah and i and i have this this line in my head that i kept thinking about that i
00:56:10 ◼ ► wanted to bring to the show because i was looking at android xr and obviously you know look at samsung's
00:56:19 ◼ ► project muhan which some people are saying oh it's a vision pro copy i agree with you mike that it looks
00:56:24 ◼ ► more like a quest pro if anything but regardless like i look at android xr and how it combines mixed
00:56:33 ◼ ► reality with gemini and ai and how that obviously feels like the future in for this category for
00:56:42 ◼ ► this segment you know not to mention the whole like glasses form factor which is what i want but even if
00:56:49 ◼ ► you look at android xr and integration with ai and gemini how obviously that is the future of this thing
00:56:56 ◼ ► and the line i keep thinking of is that apple was too early here and that vision os feels like a future
00:57:06 ◼ ► that is now stuck in the past yeah that's what i keep going back to that's nice that's a nice like
00:57:14 ◼ ► i've i've often said it's like it's like an alternate timeline yeah that is a nicer more poetic way of putting
00:57:21 ◼ ► it like it still is very futuristic when you use it but where we are a year later is not where we were
00:57:31 ◼ ► a year ago no yeah technology has moved more in the last year than it has maybe in the last five years
00:57:37 ◼ ► like of what the potential is and like this is what i'm saying like they i don't think they had a choice
00:57:44 ◼ ► really right like apple intelligence had to become the thing and that's not even that that's not even the thing
00:57:50 ◼ ► right like they haven't gotten it to where it needs to be uh and they weren't for a while most likely
00:57:55 ◼ ► but they couldn't continue putting vision os as like this is our future like they couldn't do that
00:58:02 ◼ ► even if they i don't know if they would have anyway right like i i realistically don't know the answer to that but
00:58:08 ◼ ► i think that's a nice way of putting it thank you uh i want to use it more than i do use it so
00:58:16 ◼ ► my vision pro stays at the studio because i'm not moving it backwards and forwards and it makes more
00:58:22 ◼ ► sense for it to be here from a technological perspective i think it's the most impressive
00:58:27 ◼ ► computer device i've ever used like what it is doing that i am aware of what it is doing is incredible
00:58:35 ◼ ► the way in which you use it and interact with it is not perfect but the fact that it works at all
00:58:43 ◼ ► is a marvel right that like you just look at stuff it's really incredible and it's in a way is like
00:58:53 ◼ ► one of the more intuitive things that i've ever used like in and i see it in other people more than any
00:58:58 ◼ ► piece of technology i've tried to get somebody to use from having no information they get they understand it
00:59:04 ◼ ► very quickly because it's we tend to look at things that we want to interact with like it's it's very
00:59:12 ◼ ► impressive my problem is i lack the when to use it right like everybody else i think that
00:59:18 ◼ ► for me i am happy to continue using it the way that i am using it because something that i use it for
00:59:25 ◼ ► somewhat frequently is telecommunication and i think it is the best telecommunication device
00:59:31 ◼ ► that exists spatial personas is absolutely the best feature of vision os without shadow of a doubt it's
00:59:39 ◼ ► incredible uh you cannot describe how good it is until you've used it it genuinely feels like the
00:59:44 ◼ ► person is sitting in front of you and you're just talking to them uh it is incredible and when you
00:59:51 ◼ ► couple that with the fact that most of the apps that i need for the services that i need when i work are
00:59:56 ◼ ► available there and is also there is also just a fully featured web browser you end up in a scenario
01:00:01 ◼ ► where screen sharing and presentations and the calls and it's incredible i i have meetings in it somewhat
01:00:09 ◼ ► frequently and it is to me vastly superior to any other way that i would do it except for meeting somebody
01:00:16 ◼ ► in person but it is the closest feeling that i've ever had of meeting somebody in person without
01:00:21 ◼ ► actually being a person with them outside of this i'm not getting what i want from it um using my mac
01:00:28 ◼ ► is a better experience than using my mac inside of the vision pro right like it's a better experience
01:00:34 ◼ ► it's too big and too involved for travel for me like i it's not really it's not something i've ever taken
01:00:41 ◼ ► on a trip even though i've thought that i wanted to but when push comes to shove i don't want to carry
01:00:44 ◼ ► it in my backpack however if i was going on a long work trip i would take it like i i didn't take it
01:00:51 ◼ ► when i went to memphis last year and i regretted it every day because it would have been so helpful
01:00:57 ◼ ► for when i was working like to actually have the bigger display rather than just my laptop display
01:01:02 ◼ ► because i use my mac with a display and that's what i what i like but on a 13 inch laptop that's too
01:01:07 ◼ ► small it would have been better so when for the podcastathon this year which will probably be the
01:01:11 ◼ ► only travel i do this year uh that is i will take it for them i feel pretty confident in that
01:01:17 ◼ ► but then the content is just not there right the games aren't there but i'm hopeful for the
01:01:22 ◼ ► controller support that is still rumored that that might make a big difference but i think you know
01:01:27 ◼ ► i i will tell i will say the thing here that everybody else has said over the last year
01:01:32 ◼ ► because of the low excitement and the low adoption of the product and either could have been different
01:01:38 ◼ ► and it would have been different like they could have sold the same amount but people could have been
01:01:42 ◼ ► like more excited about it but because of that we're not seeing as many cool apps as we'd like to
01:01:47 ◼ ► i get i see stuff on threads like the algorithm knows that i'm interested in the vision prog
01:01:52 ◼ ► and there's a creator called justin ryan who i only know on threads i don't know anything about them
01:01:58 ◼ ► uh but i see them a lot um and they posted at this app call uh recently i would like to be able to
01:02:06 ◼ ► tell you what it is but my uh my app limit is up for threads for the day and it's i'm trying to get
01:02:11 ◼ ► around it there you go it's called touch desk uh it's like a new app for the vision pro that lets you
01:02:16 ◼ ► kind of use your finger to draw on like a whiteboard which is on your desk that looks really cool but
01:02:21 ◼ ► it's like there should be more of this stuff but there isn't like it is a so infrequent where i'm
01:02:28 ◼ ► like oh that's cool that's very infrequent and i would like it and i thought it was going to be
01:02:34 ◼ ► different like everybody did but i would say the three of us i use it more and i'm still more
01:02:46 ◼ ► but i'm not like you know don't take that to mean like oh i use it every day because i don't so
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01:04:45 ◼ ► hey apple's got a new app uh if you want to invite you it and we invite you in to check
01:04:53 ◼ ► out this new app uh it's iphone only it leaked uh including the code name which is confetti which is
01:05:00 ◼ ► like top tier code name for an app that does this uh it's an apple confetti confetti project confetti
01:05:08 ◼ ► you can uh set up an event with artwork and date and time and it'll show weather and then you can
01:05:15 ◼ ► share a link via messages mail or just send it uh send it out to people and you can kind of manage
01:05:23 ◼ ► who's coming and the plus one and and all that stuff uh it is part of well it requires an icloud plus
01:05:35 ◼ ► subscription so you have to be paying something for icloud which is to send one this is called
01:05:41 ◼ ► apple invites i'm not sure if you said that i think we're too excited about confetti so that is just to
01:05:47 ◼ ► send one i didn't know that i think so okay uh yes because uh icloud plus is from apple icloud
01:05:56 ◼ ► plus subscribers can create invitations but anyone can rsvp regardless of whether they have an apple
01:06:02 ◼ ► account or device okay uh it all it also has some features i think are really interesting where you can
01:06:10 ◼ ► have a shared apple music playlist or photo library set up right there i think that part's pretty cool
01:06:16 ◼ ► but uh federico you are you going to plan all your social events in this can i be can i be the can i be
01:06:21 ◼ ► the honest european guy on this podcast um nobody's going to use this in real life most people just plan a
01:06:29 ◼ ► gathering on in a whatsapp group like regular people in europe that's it or facebook i guess
01:06:36 ◼ ► right or facebook like just just any social gathering in my adult life from the past 15 years has been
01:06:44 ◼ ► planned with a group thread before it used to be facebook facebook messenger now it's a whatsapp
01:06:50 ◼ ► group this is like this like the sort of experience that people in california are going to use some most
01:06:58 ◼ ► of them working in the tech industry well this would be the kind of thing that i would like to use but
01:07:03 ◼ ► would be too embarrassed to send the invite yeah it was like because people are going to be like hey
01:07:08 ◼ ► what are you sending me what is this and then i have to explain it just plan just plan a get together
01:07:16 ◼ ► like a regular person non-weirdo tech person in a group thread this is like this is one of like the
01:07:25 ◼ ► things that is like an ideal thing right yeah like if you have a friend group where everybody has iphones
01:07:35 ◼ ► which is realistically the way to use this right and you're you're technologically minded as a group you
01:07:41 ◼ ► could send this and it would be great right and like genuinely it would be great because as an app
01:07:46 ◼ ► to do this kind of thing it does a good job right as steven said you can set up like shared stuff i
01:07:52 ◼ ► really like that you put the address in and then it gives you a weather prediction yeah for the time of
01:07:57 ◼ ► the event it shows who's going they can have little comments you can add imagery you can also add image
01:08:10 ◼ ► the majority of posts and screenshots that i've seen is that people have used image playgrounds to
01:08:15 ◼ ► create a piece of art for this but apple's official newsroom post they just used a photo and i thought
01:08:21 ◼ ► that that was very yeah yeah because they wanted to look good one now they they use they have one later
01:08:27 ◼ ► on down that's using image playgrounds and they chose a very good one for that where they're not using a
01:08:32 ◼ ► person yeah it's a cake right and so i found that to be funny but it's in there but like almost
01:08:38 ◼ ► everyone in that example is using them emoji for their contact photo which is natural because who
01:08:52 ◼ ► understand okay understand it this is where i think my phase of life is a gives me a slightly
01:08:59 ◼ ► different take on this i get so many invites to stuff for like of course you do kids and school
01:09:06 ◼ ► stuff right because you people in america don't use whatsapp that's also true no but like i don't
01:09:12 ◼ ► doubt that you're getting invites yeah so are they gonna be these no no this is not gonna be successful
01:09:17 ◼ ► like this is gonna this is gonna die in the same folder as like music mimos and where clips is headed
01:09:22 ◼ ► but yeah it is interesting that apple took this on because the competition is all terrible and super
01:09:32 ◼ ► filled with like gross ads and like don't they don't work very well but for me like the the angle they
01:09:38 ◼ ► didn't take is like a lot of these things that go out are actually like sign up forms like hey we're having
01:09:44 ◼ ► this event sign up for it and this does like this is built on the assumption that you know everybody
01:09:55 ◼ ► you're going to invite and that's not always true like sometimes like how do you invite people well
01:10:01 ◼ ► sometimes it goes out to like the class email and like parents can sign up to volunteer or something
01:10:05 ◼ ► like but you could create a link with this though you could put it in the email but but it's like that
01:10:11 ◼ ► that is just enough extra friction i think like first of all no one's going to use this it is
01:10:14 ◼ ► embarrassing um i had a flashback some people uh wrote about the ios app cards that came out
01:10:21 ◼ ► but before that you know don't i was there when the magic was written like mobile me and dot or not
01:10:29 ◼ ► only dot mac and itools had a cards website thing you could send somebody like a birthday card from itools
01:10:36 ◼ ► or dot mac and it had a little apple logo on it you could also do it from iphone super super
01:10:40 ◼ ► embarrassing uh this is not going to get traction but it's super interesting but i think the most
01:10:47 ◼ ► interesting part of it is that it looks like vision os and there's this rumor like very wispy
01:10:54 ◼ ► rumor out there saying that apple is going to make more of ios and ipad os look like vision os and
01:11:02 ◼ ► if this app is a taste of that like sign me up i love the way this thing looks you see i don't think
01:11:08 ◼ ► that's the case what i'll say is i don't think this is proof of anything i don't really either i think
01:11:15 ◼ ► this just looks like this i don't you know what i mean like i don't i don't because what i don't
01:11:21 ◼ ► think is going to happen is that apple with ios 9 is it 19 yeah yeah the ios 19 they're going to spend
01:11:28 ◼ ► a bunch of time redesigning the entire operating system do you not think they might be putting
01:11:32 ◼ ► that effort into the other big thing right like that if ios 19 has a full system redesign
01:11:42 ◼ ► think of a punishment for me i don't know like it's not happening it ain't happening it's not happening
01:11:51 ◼ ► they'll keep that for 20 if they do it maybe i don't know i just like the way it looks and i
01:11:56 ◼ ► kind of want that redesign to happen so i mean i could be reading into it well can i give you just
01:12:04 ◼ ► before we go just one one totally unrelated bit of personal speculation yeah um for the past day
01:12:15 ◼ ► two days or so no actually the past day apple has been re-uploading to youtube uh old wwdc 2022
01:12:31 ◼ ► yeah yeah including another one 50 minutes ago yeah it's like they're getting ready so it's not this
01:12:38 ◼ ► week it'll be next week yeah i unsubscribed from that channel because it was bananas like it just
01:12:44 ◼ ► filled up my inbox it's funny when like every two weeks it's like his six ads it's like can we not
01:12:49 ◼ ► why don't we spread these out a little bit apple like do we need the whole campaign all at once
01:12:58 ◼ ► that's interesting it's it's fine right and like when i said i would like to be in a world where
01:13:06 ◼ ► this is a tool that i could use right but i just don't i'm not sure i'm in that world that like
01:13:12 ◼ ► i could make this and send it to people i mean i wished i was in a world where all my group threads
01:13:17 ◼ ► can be in iMessage but they're just not because i live in continental europe and everybody here
01:13:23 ◼ ► uses whatsapp even though i just whatsapp let me just i'm going on a little tangent here now
01:13:31 ◼ ► just stop taking the badge away if a message is unread and i've left a message i know right i know
01:13:40 ◼ ► right i just because i've opened the app don't now remove the badge like there are apis for this you
01:13:46 ◼ ► don't have to do this this happened to me five minutes ago i got a an audio message from my mom but
01:13:53 ◼ ► i wanted to to keep it unread i opened the app i was in the main list view but now the home screen
01:14:00 ◼ ► badge is gone yeah madness why did they do that but anyway i i think that the invites app is interesting
01:14:07 ◼ ► i think that it's very well thought out as like the things that you could do and like all of the
01:14:12 ◼ ► the different system pieces that they're bringing into it but it just how you the whole world does
01:14:21 ◼ ► not use their does not use iphones and even the ones that do like is to say like it is like trying in
01:14:28 ◼ ► steven's scenario of there being this existing systems it's like trying to move your group from whatsapp to
01:14:34 ◼ ► imessage you're not going to do it all right it's like whatever this this the websites are that in steven's
01:14:41 ◼ ► world people are creating these invites for you're not going to be able to convince them to move to this
01:14:47 ◼ ► uh i also one last thing it was very funny to me uh i have icloud stolen device protection on
01:15:03 ◼ ► i went to the web and it's like get access and i don't know why my iphone needs to give access
01:15:14 ◼ ► it was a very it was a very sad uh scenario for me uh of trying to trying to see this invite i
01:15:20 ◼ ► couldn't see i wasn't allowed it was a secret party even from you you know i invited your phone i
01:15:28 ◼ ► invited your icloud account not you it was i was i was at an appointment and i left the appointment and i
01:15:34 ◼ ► had like 50 text messages i'm like well okay something's happened something's happening
01:15:41 ◼ ► well i think that does it this week can i invite you to the closing yes mike please rcp
01:15:52 ◼ ► oh sorry i didn't understand now i get it yeah good yes you can i will be there okay if you want
01:15:58 ◼ ► to talk to us about something stupid we said go to connectedfeedback.com feedback is always welcome
01:16:05 ◼ ► a lot of people uh angling for old t-shirts to come back when mike's on paternity leave a lot of feedback
01:16:10 ◼ ► about that no i i genuinely look forward to how many you're gonna sell yeah literally dozens five
01:16:19 ◼ ► if you want a longer ad-free version of the show go to getconnectedpro.com uh this week again we
01:16:25 ◼ ► talked about making friends in your 30s at a baby class it's mike's lived experience this week
01:16:30 ◼ ► relatable i mean to some people to me yeah you can find us all online federico is the editor-in-chief of
01:16:39 ◼ ► macstories.net mike hosts a bunch of other shows here on relay and works uh does some marvelous work
01:16:45 ◼ ► work over at cortex brand i write at 512pixels.net and co-host mpu here on relay each and every sunday