The Accidental Tech Podcast

111: That Big Ring Underground Somewhere in Europe

 

  I have no idea what day it is anymore. It's still Thursday. [TS]

  What week is it the first week of April is that right now is the watch out yeah I know it's not soon. But not yet. [TS]

  All right. Check your wrist. Just like the rest. It's hair clock. It's hair o'clock. All right. [TS]

  So do we have some follow up. Starting with cooking. Apparently. Seriously. That's awesome. [TS]

  Yeah this was last week on the poster up a so I was making fun of the temperature is printed on the glass door of the [TS]

  toaster saying that one sixty eight [TS]

  or one seventy is not an appropriate temperature park despite the fact that it is printed on the door of the toaster [TS]

  that I tested last week. And I also blame the government for these crazy. [TS]

  Temperature ratings because they tend to be super conservative to make sure you don't get any food borne illnesses. [TS]

  I was told by several people that the government had in fact changed their recommended temperature to pork they changed [TS]

  it in two thousand and eleven. [TS]

  And when people mention this to me I had been recalled reading the story back then but anyway. [TS]

  The government now recommends a one forty five for pork which is a perfectly same temperature pork [TS]

  and it will make it not taste like cardboard so everybody. You could say the government says the U.S. [TS]

  Government that is that you can safely cook your parka one forty five and eat it and not have a days like cardboard. [TS]

  All right well I feel better knowing that piece of information. I don't know about you guys. All right. [TS]

  What to tell us about the F. Sixteen. As another thing last we got held I can buy think was for stressed. [TS]

  Touch trackpad you know the trackpad doesn't move but it feels like it moves. [TS]

  And it reminded me of the stick in the at sixteen which doesn't move a couple people. [TS]

  Knowledgeable about this stuff Burton tell me that the F. [TS]

  Sixteen the original sixteen stick didn't move at all [TS]

  and the pilots found it disconcerting because there was no feedback. [TS]

  And so it was modified so that it moves slightly Some people say fractions of an inch Some people say moves an inch [TS]

  total. [TS]

  So I saw a video of it at one point moving it doesn't move much [TS]

  but it moves a little bit because there was no feedback it just felt kind of weird. And I didn't. I'm sure about the F. [TS]

  Eighteen and people over and sell me to the F. Eighteen. Stick does move and. [TS]

  It actually is a has a mechanical connection to the flight controls as a backup. [TS]

  I remember reading about that years ago a fly by wire thing before a drive by wire came to cars [TS]

  and they want transit in neutral already. [TS]

  But flight of our came to planes first where the controls were not hooked up to the things that you put your hands on [TS]

  were not hooked up to the control surfaces of the plane by a mechanical connection [TS]

  but rather just by like you would move the stick and it would figure out what you're trying to do [TS]

  and then it was an instructor electronics to move the control surfaces of the plane [TS]

  and predictably that freaked out pilots like oh I got you know. [TS]

  I got to have a direct connection I don't trust these computers blah blah blah but they made a trip triple [TS]

  and quadruple redundant. Anyway in the F. Eighteen. It's why wire. [TS]

  My understanding but there is a backup system where if the fly by wire system fails you can still move. [TS]

  Services with a stick. So there you go. The ethics Tina needed with an moving stick. [TS]

  Needed some haptic feedback as well I don't they get they did. [TS]

  Side not to go as libration and just go with tiny amounts of movement but it still seems pretty weird. [TS]

  That's definitely wanky. But hey whatever works. [TS]

  Tell us about the current MacBook Pro and how many monitors you can connect to it. [TS]

  The last week talking about the confusion of. What would happen if they had to U.S.B. Seaports on a new MacBook and. [TS]

  But it only supported. [TS]

  To monitor if you could only have the interim honor [TS]

  and one external monitor wouldn't be confusing that you had the the part that you thought you could hook something into [TS]

  it I said it would not be confusing because you would know that you bought a machine that only supports dual displays [TS]

  and Frank. And Frank wrote in to tell me well. [TS]

  The current mac book pro only supports two external displays but it has three places you can plug a monitor. [TS]

  So those people must just be thoroughly confused [TS]

  when they plug another modern It doesn't work right so there were two big pieces of follow up that we got our two P's a [TS]

  follow up that we got often. [TS]

  One of them was everyone getting angry at you for falling into the Steve Jobs said or Steve Jobs did. Trap. [TS]

  Would you like to defend yourself John. Yeah that's not. [TS]

  It's one of those things where this sort of shared cultural knowledge of a medium or whatever and. [TS]

  It all nuances wrong out of that me minimum is kind of when. [TS]

  When Tim Cook stuck took over Steve Jobs and Dave Jobs died. [TS]

  Among the apple nerd community they were there were a lot of there was a lot of pushback on the idea. [TS]

  On the other stories that were coming out saying oh Jobs is gone he was the only one who could have led Apple to [TS]

  victory. Now no matter what Tim Cook does he do it without Jobs Apple can innovate and everything. [TS]

  Tim Cook did it was well Steve Jobs but I don't this well he's no Steve Jobs was Steve Jobs had done that [TS]

  and so the blowback me in our little circle was always. [TS]

  I don't want to see anyone comparing anything to move the Steve Jobs I don't want to see anyone ever think the of jobs [TS]

  what did on this and what a done that the spirit was that me I'm developed in was worthwhile and that [TS]

  when that transition to date was there were a lot of those hysterical stories about how. [TS]

  Possible to ever compare and contrast the valves and Tim Cook and that. That permits I reject. [TS]

  I think it is perfectly valid to compare and address the of jobs and Tim Cook. [TS]

  Whether or not you think one is better than the other and whether or not you want to make that particular case [TS]

  and last episode. [TS]

  I was comparing them directly on things that they had each done with the product line not saying well like. [TS]

  What was Steve Jobs had done about the watch or some product the didn't that he didn't even know about. [TS]

  I don't know about watch but anyway. That type of thing I think is not as useful. [TS]

  But still I think is a valid line of inquiry as long as you're not using it as a cudgel to say like Steve Jobs would [TS]

  never done that therefore what Tim Cook is doing is wrong because Steve Jobs is infallible though is over so anyway. [TS]

  I reject that criticism because I think it is useful to compare these things [TS]

  and as long as you do it in a thoughtful way. And not just you know. [TS]

  Elevate Steve Jobs to godhood and use him as a way to say whatever Tim Cook does is bad [TS]

  or to try to support your own opinion by saying. I think the watch is dumb idea. [TS]

  And Steve Jobs out of agreement and he was he was here. [TS]

  He's always right there for I'm right because I'm telling you what the gods would have thought about the watcher. [TS]

  You know I again I don't know if you knew about the watch would be better if we had example of a product that we were [TS]

  sure that Steve Jobs never knew about a lot of things have been in the works for a long time. But anyway. [TS]

  That's that's how I feel about the comparisons as the of jobs. So you stand by your comparison from last week. [TS]

  Yes totally because you know it is not like completely speculative I'm not using the ghost of Steve Jobs as sure I [TS]

  support my opinion I said I didn't even know what strategy was better than some because one of the of jobs one [TS]

  and I could go either way on it it's not clear like it's not. It is completely valid. [TS]

  All right let's awake Marko up [TS]

  and have him tell us about something awesome then he can go back to sleep for a few more minutes. [TS]

  And some some going on we did a podcast. Some like that is the show. [TS]

  This is what people didn't for you want to explain why all asleep because no one's going to know why you're also doing [TS]

  it like you did you think that everyone follows your life down to the tweet on Twitter [TS]

  but people going to listen to this who haven't been following on Twitter have no idea why you're out of it so once you [TS]

  explain a Thank God I'm so tired of Twitter. People are so nasty there anyway. Honestly I'm pulling away from Twitter. [TS]

  I think I hope it's just not worth it. [TS]

  It is simply not worth it you haven't even been tweeting that much what do you know that's what I'm talking about. [TS]

  I'm pulling away from Twitter. [TS]

  All right well and they will save us we have to show her of a therapy session and see what's going on on your Twitter. [TS]

  Well it's. It isn't that in the recent It's like I'm slowly realizing over the course of time. That Twitter is. [TS]

  It's a tricky balance between whether it makes your life better or worse. Overall and. [TS]

  And I've been questioning what the. What the value of it is for me recently and whether it is a net gain or loss. [TS]

  And I think. Maybe it's it's probably a net gain still but. But the ratio there is not as good as it should be. [TS]

  So I'm really not incredibly happy with it anyway. And I'm exploring ways to try to fix that young man. [TS]

  When you are tired of Twitter your tired of life. Another reference to an object. That's all wrong. [TS]

  From a long time ago. So the reason I sound like this and the reason I'm out of it and probably not making any sense. [TS]

  Is because I have just returned from a trip across the Atlantic Ocean. To Ireland for the wonderful tool conference. [TS]

  And I would I would tell you how amazing it is in great detail. However K.C. [TS]

  To get to go this year and they were just being cruel to me. [TS]

  For me to tell you how awesome it was but suffice to say it was awesome. [TS]

  And I've been awake for proximately twenty two hours now. [TS]

  I forget what time my body thinks it is it doesn't really matter. [TS]

  But I'm a zombie and I sound like this so I apologize. In better news. We have a new sponsor this week. [TS]

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  And I haven't had it for years and that's one of the things have always missed. [TS]

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  Right on your phone. [TS]

  All right so I had said earlier that there were two major pieces of follow up that that we got a lot of complaining [TS]

  about. Via the feedback and. Well this week. There were two. [TS]

  And the other one had to do with some of the statements we made on fab in RAM which in turn were based on some follow [TS]

  up that we had gotten two weeks ago so John you want to set all this straight you know this is my memory. [TS]

  But I just started as back the first time over. I talked about it that. Set when. [TS]

  When using a bunch fabric silicon chips. [TS]

  That the first thing they do to work out the kinks in a new process size was fab RAM because it's simple. [TS]

  and very regular not as complicated as actual full fledged C.P.U. [TS]

  And then we get feedback with said No no I actually DRAM is really complicated is that capacitors they're like they're [TS]

  not like two flat plate facing in shows like a tube within a Toobin it's really complicated to fab them [TS]

  and actually it's much harder to fab those capacitors than just regular plain old logic transistors so that the filling [TS]

  out the case and I was like All right well you know. Maybe my dad is old. [TS]

  Maybe I'm just remembering this from when I was a kid I never revisited maybe. [TS]

  When they pass through like thirty two nanometer something changes you know things get weird. [TS]

  You start getting really small process sizes like who knows amazing love X. Ray lithography maybe we already have X. [TS]

  Rays. [TS]

  That's how much I mean giving up with it as [TS]

  and not much it's not like you just drink drink drink that's going to shrink your whole life. [TS]

  We have a whole episode about the end of Moore's Law By the way. [TS]

  Because you know more laws existed for most of our life. [TS]

  Where it's like I'll you know they just keep shrinking the process but like. It doesn't take a genius to figure out. [TS]

  You can't keep shrinking forever. [TS]

  Eventually you get down to the things that they're slamming together in the big ring underground somewhere in Europe [TS]

  and Iran doesn't problems. But anyway we're not there yet. And so. [TS]

  Last week I said What the heck was I remembering with this whole fabric RAM for us and I just crazy [TS]

  or with a song that used to do but don't do anymore [TS]

  and I got a lot of people who would be in position to know telling me that what I was. [TS]

  It wasn't that they don't fabricate something. S.. [TS]

  RAM not DRAM SRAM of the stuff you use to make like the caches and stuff on C.B.S. It is not the same as DRAM. [TS]

  It is much more expensive than DRAM and faster because you need to use way more transistors per bit of stored memory. [TS]

  But unlike the RAM It doesn't need to be refreshed every X. Number of milliseconds Anyway I will link to the the. [TS]

  The SRAM BT page as RAM is not a new thing [TS]

  but the point is SRAM does not is not filled with capacitors is just a bunch of logic gates and it is very regular [TS]

  and that is what they use to test out the kinks in their process in fact we have someone enter Yang from a. [TS]

  Another he's not the one from Intel at some else from Intel but anyway. He links to and then text Oracle while back. [TS]

  Specifically talking about SRAM than Tex their story says the good old SRAM test vehicles a great weight are now bugs [TS]

  in the manufacturing process. [TS]

  And he talks about how intel was damage in two thousand and seven their thirty two nanometre SRAM test chip. [TS]

  And Eric who used to work at Intel until two thousand and six. Says that each new process node and S.D.. [TS]

  RAM modules fab prior to the main production of C.P.S. [TS]

  I saw someone else I don't have the notes here are saying that that that measurement of like how small you able to get [TS]

  as RAM is kind of like the yardstick for how you're doing on your process size ago we first got us ram down to the size [TS]

  of the state or whatever so there you go. One letter makes a difference if you don't know difference in S. [TS]

  RAM and DRAM I encourage you to read the Wikipedia pages it will put in the show it's because all RAM is crazy [TS]

  and examine the difference us remedy [TS]

  and RAM will make you appreciate the stuff inside your computer that you never need to think about. [TS]

  And finally Gordon McGregor sent us a link to a chart that shows. [TS]

  Prophesies and I didn't quite understand this chart and it seems to contradict some of things I just said [TS]

  but this chart shows that DRAM still leads process development versus logic [TS]

  but the gap is closing over time that you guys look at this graph here. And now. [TS]

  It is somewhat confusing and shows logic and then dram the NAND flash [TS]

  and I don't know what that other line is there anyway. I will leave. [TS]

  Crap in the show it's anyone's to parse that out and figure what it is I'm looking at there. [TS]

  But I'm fairly convinced of what I was remembering was SRAM [TS]

  and not DRAM in the first letter makes all the difference that took surprisingly little time Jon I'm very proud if I [TS]

  tried to trim it down I didn't want it there was some are rehashing of the new MacBook I think we've covered. Yeah. [TS]

  I think we can definitely never talk about the one port on the mac book again. [TS]

  Oh no not when we are what Apple sends us all our free sample copies I will talk about it some more. [TS]

  Oh yeah that yeah I didn't mention I got so I got five of the moment in my mailbox today. [TS]

  Yes I said check your wrist you're wearing two Apple watches right now. Oh my God you're right. [TS]

  If it were only that easy. Damage the sport. OK so. [TS]

  Would So it's funny that this is the week that we run through follow up so quickly because we don't really have any [TS]

  terribly pressing topics as write down your Where is your follow up now. [TS]

  Let me get right so I don't know which what if you guys put this in the show it's [TS]

  but would you like to talk about our Macs and roadmap rumors. I think we all would. [TS]

  I think we should all bring up this page which is from a long time ago [TS]

  and it is a complete the unsubstantiated rumor as far as I can tell but I. [TS]

  So we ran out of topics they were moving from discussing. New B.S. Rumors to discussing. Ancient B.S. Room. Yeah. [TS]

  Well I mean. Yes armor is a jumping off point first of all it. [TS]

  It's in one of those subcommunities that we don't really travel in like the whole semiconductor forums [TS]

  but you know where they're where they're debating they're really into who's particular process size [TS]

  and what particular technology is getting what contrasts. For what chip and you know all that stuff. [TS]

  So at the very least like anyway. Look at the story. It's about like the A nine the A ten a nine X. The A ten X. The S. [TS]

  One and yes to all names that you could very easily make up based on the you know. [TS]

  Apple's current naming of their ships. [TS]

  And who might get those contracts and what technology they're using [TS]

  and they had the date they're supposed to start production [TS]

  and contracts that are split over different fabs like Sam's log into has and seeing global foundry [TS]

  and whether Intel's that mean anything [TS]

  and there's a big table showing less information most of which is not that big of deal except from the perspective of [TS]

  Apple. [TS]

  You know How is Apple managing its relationship with its fierce competitor Samsung that it is still relying on to fab a [TS]

  lot of its chips. And that's always an uncomfortable situation and we've talked in the past about. [TS]

  Perhaps getting intel. Into the mix here because they are usually at the forefront of process technology. [TS]

  Very often far ahead of the rest of the field itself are Apple hasn't been using them for anything [TS]

  but it's because of course Intel is their own chips they want to use instead of arm and anyway. [TS]

  Inside this entire story is a one line item showing on the A nine X. and A ten X. [TS]

  Line is a ball on a nine antennas of those with the i Phone on the Apple watches across the S. [TS]

  One in the US to another talked about the baseband chip on the i Phone and i Pad. [TS]

  and then the middle I don't it's as a nine X. A ten X. I Pad and mac. And that is not an exciting part of the story. [TS]

  Really to the people discussing it because all they care about is whose fabric and what technology it's on [TS]

  but it's like I'll just throw that in the yeah of course then I commit an act of course that we max based on those. [TS]

  And this is the internal arm they snack rumor that we've talked about length in the past. [TS]

  I think it was worth revisiting. Do we think anything has changed on the feasibility of likeability of ARM based Macs. [TS]

  In light of what say like than the new mac book with its five watt. C.P.U. and The very latest. [TS]

  I Pad Air two with its benchmarks versus new computer is that we think it now is the time to he believed. [TS]

  Do you believe this this. [TS]

  You know little table here anymore than we did in the past or the just still awaiting Fiat's it. [TS]

  You know I actually had an interesting. And related realization. At work the other day. [TS]

  One of my co-workers who is not a developer. She had just swapped a Dell. I Pad Air narcs kissing. [TS]

  Medical care knock off for a actual mac McCarran this. [TS]

  MacBook Air happen to be a few years old I don't recall exactly when it was built. [TS]

  But she didn't have the I'm where installed. [TS]

  Now typically when we used to she Max to everyone doesn't matter if your developer not. We would our I.T. [TS]

  Department of one to install the where fusion. On every single mac. [TS]

  Because inevitably all of these people be it business people developers whatever. [TS]

  Are going to need to do something in Windows that they can't do in O.O.S. Ten and so those are I.T. [TS]

  Guy would just get ahead of the curve and just put the more fusion on there. And I went to do something in the M.R. [TS]

  Fusion on her machine off camera was but doesn't really matter. And the more fusion wasn't there. [TS]

  And that was a little bit odd for me because I thought it was a given that safer Visine know if nothing else. That V.M. [TS]

  Ware would be on every man every MAC we hand out in the company. [TS]

  And it isn't [TS]

  and that relates to this discussion because I've have to imagine that virtualizing a Windows installation unless it was [TS]

  whatever that we are to version of Windows is that runs on the surface. The armed services. [TS]

  Virtualizing a Windows installation on an arm. Mad. [TS]

  Back would be unbelievably slow I mean we've talked about this in the past [TS]

  but my recollection of Max before I ever touched a mac. [TS]

  Was that they would have like separate daughter boards on some of these old Max that would basically be a P.C. [TS]

  On a on a daughter board that you would plug into your mac. [TS]

  In order to make emulation of P.C.'s way faster you know to talk about John. [TS]

  They had those [TS]

  but nobody on them like you knew would never see one in the wild they made a couple machines that you could do that [TS]

  with a couple third parties actual show the card but it was not a thing like Virtual P.C. [TS]

  Was the thing and that was all emulated X. Eighty six. P.C. On my Power P.C. MAC and it was to burst low. [TS]

  Exactly exactly and so that's what. [TS]

  That's that's one of the things that I love about my Macs [TS]

  and this is granted directly driven by the fact that I do all of my work on the Microsoft stack. But nonetheless. [TS]

  I love being able to boot into Wait why don't love being being able to and [TS]

  when just one of the able to get my job done by booting into Windows and using Visual Studio [TS]

  and doing all that sort of thing. But it's very interesting to me that someone who isn't a developer. [TS]

  Apparently doesn't need Windows anymore. And that's a change from just a couple of years back at least in my workplace. [TS]

  And that is kind of what you were talking about John you know is this more feasible now well I don't know [TS]

  but certainly could be. I think it's not just Windows because we always think Oh I say six. [TS]

  It's great we can run Windows software now finally this. The divide existed for so long it was an actress's P.C. [TS]

  and It was the software compatibility problem when Apple and X. [TS]

  Eighty six it was you know cutting the Gordian knot and say. [TS]

  Game over is not an issue anymore you can boot Windows on these things. [TS]

  There is no excuse not to you don't take it there's Mag You know I mean I can do it can do everything you can kind of [TS]

  look at as a transitional thing like we need to. [TS]

  We need to be able to do what the competition can do long enough to defeat the competition [TS]

  and then it doesn't matter anymore it's not like the mac is defeating Windows P.C.'s [TS]

  but what's happening is that you know the P.C. Is being defeated by every hit by mobile. Right. [TS]

  And so it becomes less relevant. What goes on down here and in the P.C. [TS]

  World and maybe Windows becomes less relevant to even Microsoft as bring all that stuff. [TS]

  To be you know net net base or Voces and cloud subscriptions and web based things and you know. It's just that. [TS]

  The stakes are a lot lower. You know the DO need for Windows is a lot lower. [TS]

  Within specific applications like if you really need to do use Windows OS X. [TS]

  Eighty six I think it's still indispensable for those things I don't think it's feasible for Apple to go armed for [TS]

  variety of reasons. And for X. Eighty six so there isn't a very appealing that Windows is from my perspective. [TS]

  In my particular job in everyone's various windows yes it's important but I feel like Linux is just as important [TS]

  and if that was my Linux runs on everything I expose need X. X. X. [TS]

  You're right Linux does run everything I had Linux on my Power P.C. [TS]

  Mag there were lots of different distributions but practically speaking. [TS]

  It's a lot easier to get binary packages and did work out. [TS]

  Compilation problems than to just you know sort out everything you need to sort out on X. Eighty six sixty four Linux. [TS]

  Right because that is the sweet spot that is what everyone is using That's the common thing if you have some exotic [TS]

  C.P.U. Like armor powerpc or whatever. [TS]

  You are a little bit off the beaten path that a big deal no but it's just a hassle it's an annoyance it's. [TS]

  It's the kind of thing that mac users use that New Yorkers like oh I can do that [TS]

  but I'm a little bit different right it's like oh it's ten in the beginning. [TS]

  You try to compile your unix software to be like you can build it on a Mac. [TS]

  But it's kind of weird you might tweak a make file and it's like why doesn't just build out of the box Luckily ever. [TS]

  All the people who maintain software packages for Unix. [TS]

  Seem to get Macs because it only took a few years for all those packages to start building [TS]

  and now you just expect if I get something from the open source world it will build on the MAC of a dozen you're angry [TS]

  at somebody so we've already become titled. Like how dare that thing not build on the Mac. Right. But yeah. I think X.. [TS]

  Eighty six. Still serves a role as the sort of common base. Windows Macklin X. [TS]

  Even though the mac in the past has run on different platforms [TS]

  and even though Linux in the present runs on a bazillion different platforms [TS]

  and even Windows as a various times are on different platforms are merging of windows now there was a power with a [TS]

  version of Windows N.T. For people who are really old Remember that one. But X. Eighty six is still that commonality. [TS]

  So regardless of what goes on in the low end of arm I have to think that they have Apple would have to keep X. [TS]

  Eighty six fifty four at the very least on the high end. For some period of time and. [TS]

  The thing that makes trips me up about the ARM based mac is like. So do you have two different. C.P. Using Macs. [TS]

  For a long period for multiple years where you can get both our Macs and X. [TS]

  Eighty six Macs that it seems like more trouble than it's worth to me. [TS]

  Yeah that seems weird I mean that's Microsoft is doing with the surface right because they have the surface.. [TS]

  What is it artsy which is what Windows R.T. [TS]

  I'm sorry I'm conflating them [TS]

  but yeah there's a surface that runs arm which at least the early ones I haven't kept up with the later ones [TS]

  but a few co-workers go to build every year and that's kind of the Microsoft of you to be D.C. [TS]

  If you will it's in Moscone the whole rigamarole. And anyway. [TS]

  Unlike Apple Microsoft gives away all sorts of off some goodies. Like I think they got X. [TS]

  Box ones last year at such a well anyways. They got surface R.T.S. [TS]

  A couple of years ago and they said that they were great for the three or four [TS]

  or ten pieces of software that came with it. But they were pieces of crap it for anything else. [TS]

  And the chat room is telling me well that's not really a thing anymore but it's still an illustrated example of well. [TS]

  It makes everything harder when you're not running on the platform that they're not running on the C.P.U. [TS]

  That most of the platform is running on. Now granted just like you said John over time that would change but it's. [TS]

  It's weird from a consumer point of view like we've been lamenting maybe not the three of us as much [TS]

  but we as a community been lamenting. All the different skews that are that Apple is that has now. [TS]

  Between i Pads and certainly the watch and. I Phones and Macs and this would just further complicate things. [TS]

  I don't know. It's. I agree with you for sure John that it seems really aggressive to get rid of Intel. [TS]

  Even on the low end. Even on like a little even on the low end. [TS]

  It seems aggressive but I I would believe it because Apple is aggressive. [TS]

  I hear they're coming out with a computer that only has one port. [TS]

  These very sad that the board a knowledge of the terrorist attack by the way that the ARM based version of Windows. [TS]

  Gone around in circles here John Doe it's dead. It's just going away it's a sleeping. You know X. [TS]

  Version of Windows anyway. That always struck me as. Rob loon. [TS]

  We can make you know because it's when they were doing like the original service right [TS]

  and then they were going to have one that was Intel power [TS]

  but the best chips in Delhi give them a Story Corps like events to be on the side of their tablet [TS]

  and I was kind of like. Now I can we make one that i Pad like. But still using you know like camp. [TS]

  Can we do it we want to make an i Pad and Intel is not a chip for us. [TS]

  Can we still put Windows on it as the whole thing was like Windows eight it's the same error of all [TS]

  but all we can make an ARM version of Windows How about that. And if it sold like gangbusters. [TS]

  They would be like full steam ahead on it [TS]

  but service in general didn't sell a gang busters in the arm version even less so because just like he said people [TS]

  bought them. And if there I can imagine people buying one thing while this runs Windows I'll be able to run everything. [TS]

  And being mistaken despite the fact that I'm sure the nice Microsoft sales people tried to emphasize to them that you [TS]

  will not be able to run X X X software on your arm based surface. And then. [TS]

  It required Microsoft to do the thing that has not been really good to doing lately which is make all the people who [TS]

  make a third party applications. [TS]

  Also compile an ARM version make sure your app works on ARM like Apple is the king of hurting its developer community. [TS]

  Toward through platform transitions where there be from one C.P.U. To the next from desktop the phone or from power B.C. [TS]

  To Intel. Apple has done that. More times or more successfully than the other technology company. [TS]

  And Microsoft has not done a great job of hurting its developer community from one A.P.I. [TS]

  Set to the other from one C.P.U. [TS]

  Architecture to the other hell they had a really hard time getting them onto the Windows N.T. Codebase off of the. [TS]

  Windows there down one hundred ninety five hundred ninety eight docx code base so it could just be different strengths [TS]

  in the company. I totally the Apple could pull off an arm that transition. But I'm always looking like. [TS]

  Aside from the obvious upside that we talk about all the time Apple one stone in control every important technology in [TS]

  this product like that is there [TS]

  and that's the reason we're talking about this at all it's totally fits with everything they want to do [TS]

  but then you say or do you can do about the not pro already and over the next book pro. Are you going to become a C.P.U. [TS]

  Design powerhouse there is a we already R.C.B. Your design Paris look at the eight where I'm a. Yes. [TS]

  All right so I believe you could do it. But you do help one big bang do you say. [TS]

  And all the Macs are arm now we've got a twelve core arm for our Macin pros all the way down to the time you little arm [TS]

  in our apple watch and we design them all because now we're the new Intel and I guess. [TS]

  We get Samsung and to fab them for us the process know that maybe a little bit behind Intel. I don't know. [TS]

  It worries me the whole thing worries me. [TS]

  Well and also if we look at like did you see there was there was a benchmark on banks that has been since taken down. [TS]

  But I saw a screenshot of it earlier. This is a benchmark of the new mac book the new slow mac book and. [TS]

  You know it's roughly equivalent to the performance of like two thousand [TS]

  and ten MacBook Air is like it's you know in that ballpark and. [TS]

  I have reason to believe a few details about the screen shot it looks legitimate. I think this is. [TS]

  I think this is a real deal. So we've actually we now can see kind of what the what the C.P.U. [TS]

  Performance would be like you know. I mean what the C.P.U. [TS]

  Performance is as Intel tries to go all the way down to arm level chips and it's it is not an atom chip. [TS]

  This is an actual you know. Core. Serious chip but it's pretty it's pretty close. And if you. [TS]

  If you think about like you know compare this to the speed of the eight X. [TS]

  Chip in the i Pad Air too which is currently the. I believe currently. [TS]

  The best the best ARM chip that's kind of in that ballpark for like you know. Lot of general like that right. [TS]

  It's fairly. Close as you know it's in the ballpark it's very similar to what we're seeing in the arm jobs. [TS]

  You know in the same power and the low profile. [TS]

  So I think if you look at this you can you can kind of see well in our version of this laptop really wouldn't be that [TS]

  different performance [TS]

  or battery wise like I think it would be certainly in the same ballpark on both of those criteria. [TS]

  So the question is why go through the transition at all like. If. If Intel can. [TS]

  With enough pressure [TS]

  and enough technology if Intel can kind of reach down to the power levels of ARM chips to make a very low level chip. [TS]

  That still performs OK even though it's not great. [TS]

  And if arm can reach up and try to make a chip that performs as well as Intel but still keeps that inflow. [TS]

  And they're both kind of reaching the same general range by doing that then why why should Apple. [TS]

  Transition a product line that is so well established on Intel chips [TS]

  and has all these massive transition costs if they were to choose to do it. [TS]

  Why why make the jump it seems like there's a lot of game to be had there. Simon when he tweeted out US The earlier. [TS]

  On April first you may have been in the area. [TS]

  He says the i Pad air to just not from the Tweed to expand its output He says twenty seven point three watt hour is [TS]

  that just the battery capacity I don't know anyway. [TS]

  Eight hundred forty five hundred gig bench as to number separated by a slash. And it's a twenty animators. [TS]

  And the new MacBook is thirty nine point seven what ours again I assume that's the battery. [TS]

  Nine hundred four thousand gig bench so it's comparable geek bench core and it's fourteen animators like yours [TS]

  and they're like their ballpark. You know close to each other the i Pad or two in the new MacBook. [TS]

  But the bottom line of his tweet is Corambis two hundred dollars more. [TS]

  I don't you know maybe as a retail price or whatever. What can you do. What can Apple do if they fab their own chips. [TS]

  Save money sell their computers for less money. I guess. [TS]

  You know I mean I felt think it's about owning control and not about. [TS]

  You know we don't want to give a portion of our profits to Intel. But as I have said on many past programs. [TS]

  I really wish. Apple and Intel those two crazy kids of yours work this out. You know. I want I want the best. [TS]

  I want my Macs and everything to be fab with the best process technology human beings can make [TS]

  and usually that's Intel has that. And the best C.P.U. Designs and like just. [TS]

  I don't understand why we have to fight it. Why can't I have both like anyway. [TS]

  Well right now we have competition that's great I mean right now. You have like. [TS]

  You know I'm sure we've all heard that Apple probably has had a and are mac. Like in the labs for testing. [TS]

  As a contingency plan for years I mean that's not new right. [TS]

  So you know anyone would agree to that who knows anything about this stuff so you know. Apple knows. [TS]

  They can make in our MacBook whenever they want to intel knows that Apple can make in our mac book. [TS]

  And so I think that keeps you know that healthy competition there like Intel has a bit of a fire lit into them in the [TS]

  last couple of years try to get these power needs down to compete with aren't because they have no meaningful mobile [TS]

  presence. They. They really need a mobile presence of they want to see any more growth ever again. And so. [TS]

  And they can't stand to. [TS]

  They certainly can't lose the business they already have in N P C's and servers so they're working really hard [TS]

  and you're right. They do have like the best. [TS]

  Process manufacturing technology in the world most of the time so I think that competition is great [TS]

  and I think we will see better results from. [TS]

  Then tell as long as they are separate as long as this battle has not been settled yet. [TS]

  As long as there's as long as there's a threat that Intel might lose their their P.C. Business or any part of it. [TS]

  To arm. Intel going to keep working really hard. And so I was arm. And that's great. [TS]

  The semi tech conductor community site that this rumor thing is on. [TS]

  Part of what they talk about this article is speculating about the idea that for future chips assuming this little [TS]

  table is correct for future chips that Apple is spreading the manufacturing around not for technical reasons. [TS]

  But just sort of the same reason that like the music makers went to Amazon [TS]

  and tried to spread their business around from Apple just because they don't want to give anyone fab more. [TS]

  More power than than the others I like the idea that all Apple you know. [TS]

  Makes their own ship designs they own the intellectual property for the chip designs and they want to farm out. [TS]

  Fattening of those chips. [TS]

  To the best company the same way they do like who wants to build who wants to assemble computers. [TS]

  Who wants to make our glass who wants you know like that's the relationship Apple is comfortable with we own [TS]

  intellectual property. [TS]

  We have a competition amongst all these other lower margin businesses to kill each other for our business. [TS]

  Who wants to manufacture the watch well go ahead you know fight fight with each other [TS]

  and we will pick the winner like you want to manufacture our car like you know I mean who wants to fab our chips. [TS]

  And even if one company clearly has the best deal on the best technology for particular generation the speculation in [TS]

  this. Semiconductor semi wiki dot com Web site is that Apple is saying. If we were. [TS]

  You know if we wanted the best for the best price we would give all of our business to whoever Samsung to S.M.C. [TS]

  or Whatever [TS]

  but long term wise it's better for us to kind of spread it around to maybe give seventy five percent to Samsung [TS]

  and twenty five cent to go blow a foundry just because we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket. And Intel. [TS]

  As much as Intel is in this fight or whatever. Like. [TS]

  That's the relationship I feel like Apple wants is we just want intelligent to be just another fab. [TS]

  Just like all these other people are. [TS]

  And then we will have you all fight amongst yourselves [TS]

  and they would love to have Intel like babbling some of their chips like will give Intel fifty percent and D.M.C. [TS]

  Twenty five percent unlike. [TS]

  But Intel's just not in it at all maybe because Intel wants all their business or none of their business [TS]

  or demands that Apple use X. Eighty six in its phones. I'm sure Intel is showing Apple road maps that show. [TS]

  What amazing chips they're going to have that could be in an i Phone in the i Phone seven [TS]

  or eight like that's how Intel got Apple's business to begin with they showed them the core lineup and I said. [TS]

  I know we have been pending for is now and they suck but like net versus dead. [TS]

  Here's what we're going to make of you in the future and no one can compete with it [TS]

  and Intel was a hundred percent right they got Apple's business [TS]

  and they did have by far the fastest most powerful fish and chips. [TS]

  During that first generation when they were you know coming out and Apple's laptop so. [TS]

  I'm sure those meetings are still taking place [TS]

  but in the meantime Apple is shipping a hell of a lot of ARM devices manufactured by nameless faceless. [TS]

  Sometimes very big competitors that we don't know or hear about and I just the way Apple likes it. [TS]

  Our second bunch of this week is Squarespace. [TS]

  The all on platform makes it fast and easy to create your own professional web site portfolio [TS]

  and online store for a free trial and ten percent off. Visit squarespace dot com editor offer code A.T.P. At checkout. [TS]

  I personally but lots of sites at square space. [TS]

  And I keep going back because it's just great I mean you can get dedicated tools to do other things [TS]

  but Squarespace if you want to build a website. Just like a general purpose Web site. [TS]

  It has an info about your business or your group or your interest or whatever or yourself. [TS]

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  A store to maybe sell T. Shirts or whatever. You can do all that was square space all together in one site. [TS]

  In one interface. And it's beautiful it is very well designed it is very easy to use. [TS]

  And they host everything for you to worry about that you want to worry about patching [TS]

  and getting security updates getting hacked. It's all just all done for you on Squarespace. [TS]

  It is so much better than building things yourself the vast majority of the time even for developers like us. [TS]

  Most of the time you should just do Squarespace rather than any other C.M.S. [TS]

  That you can find that's that's me Tony that personally. And I do it myself. Squarespace seven. [TS]

  Was released last fall and it has tons of new stuff. Besides redesign interfaces also integration with Google Apps. [TS]

  Integration and a partnership with Getty Images. [TS]

  You can get really really affordable stock photos for your logos or backgrounds or posts [TS]

  and any kind of content where you could use. [TS]

  Professionally shop or TA graphy you can get all that built in with Getty Images for seven also features. [TS]

  Brand new templates. The great feature called cover pages where you can basically have temporary or permanent. [TS]

  Intro pages. [TS]

  Off your site or for any sections or whatever [TS]

  and they can have different themes in the rest of your site they can be like really flashy and trendy [TS]

  and the research has more conservative maybe. Whatever you want you can do a lot with cover pages and. [TS]

  You can see more at square space dot com slash seven spelled out. [TS]

  Anyway square space is of course simple and powerful they have twenty. [TS]

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  All of this starts at only eight dollars a month. And if you cited for a whole year upfront. [TS]

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  Check it out yourself you don't believe me that's fine. Go check it out yourself. Square Space dot com. [TS]

  Just try it open a free trial there is no credit card required for a free trial. [TS]

  And then when you do have to sign up for it afterwards which you probably will make sure to use the offer code. A.T.P. [TS]

  To get ten percent off your first purchase. So once again squarespace dot com. Use Code A.T.P. [TS]

  To ten percent off your first purchase. Thank you very much Squarespace for support for our show once again. [TS]

  Squarespace start here go anywhere. John you made an interesting observation. [TS]

  Early So I think it was Johnny was Mark is probably John. [TS]

  That maybe other people have also realized but the first place I saw it was here in the show notes and. [TS]

  You have pointed out that the Apple T.V. Is actually cheaper. Then the V.G.A. [TS]

  Adapter for the MacBook that only has one port. Yeah I'm not the first person make that analogy but one. When they end. [TS]

  Because in the same keynote. They announced the price drop of the Apple T.V. From one that I'm dollar six and idolize. [TS]

  And they also announce the availability or. Then out the product and then of the availability of the Dr maybe. [TS]

  Shortly after the announcement. We all went to the Web site and look at the adapters for the one part that book. [TS]

  And one of those adapters. Is seventy nine dollars. Oh they should have called it the mac book one. [TS]

  But a missed opportunity. There you go it's like the X. Box One the start over. [TS]

  Exactly this sort of name to like the one one you know that one. What a car the super car. [TS]

  The hypercar sorry the one one. I've lost track of what you're saying there's no word. [TS]

  But they're not making any sense and I believe is it. The chat room tell me is that like oh any. [TS]

  And then the number one or the reverse. You haven't heard of this either Casey. [TS]

  Not because I wasn't on top here and you get this all you got all your car doesn't even bring it up. [TS]

  I can't handle another week of feedback about that anyway. [TS]

  The one one is by the car manufacturer whose name I'm not going to attempt to pronounce [TS]

  but you know it as the really long one on the top tier board what's the name of that company with the K. [TS]

  Coatings like yeah OK There you go. That one. [TS]

  They're making a car called the one one spelled see some weird way I think it's because it's one. [TS]

  One horsepower propounder something anyway it's insane to go google the one one [TS]

  and see what the crazy people are making for cars you should probably it's a when the colon and numeral one. [TS]

  That's not confusing at all. It is a crate. You have to look at it just is crazy. Anyway the Ferrari love Ferrari. [TS]

  It is more there is way more creative that it will probably break after being driven one hundred miles [TS]

  but you know like anyone. It's. Yeah. [TS]

  You just don't get the law for I bought this car is crazy on the hearth Barbara kilogram sorry there and European. [TS]

  That's not on ours proper print All right. Anyway. The fact that the new Apple T.V. Is cheaper than the adapter. [TS]

  I don't know what the highest as a highlight the fact that adapters too expensive. [TS]

  The how is the fact that adapter also contains silicon chips we know that you know like do are the silicon chips that. [TS]

  are in that adapter actually marks pensive than the ancient single core a five bits in the Apple T.V. [TS]

  I don't know but what like price drop itself like. You know dropping Apple T.V. [TS]

  If ninety nine dollars sixty nine dollars all points towards. And the fact they announce H.B.O. [TS]

  Deal or talk to him talk about a second all points towards the idea that this is her and Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is finally blessedly going to not to be the best Apple T.V. You can buy. [TS]

  Whether it goes away or continues on [TS]

  and it's sixty nine dollars lot as many people think it will either way a new Apple T.V. Is coming. [TS]

  It is long overdue I want to know Apple T.V. Comes by dropping this one at least room for the new Apple T.V. [TS]

  To come in and ninety nine to have an actual decency be you and to not give me obscure errors [TS]

  when I try to watch television programs and. And I'm really getting greedy here and I. [TS]

  I know everyone has a Roku or some other box that they love is going to tell me this is not a problem there. [TS]

  But all the T.V. Connected things that I have anything. Streams video. Whether it's streaming from icing on G. [TS]

  String from my mac streaming on to my Playstation three Playstation four. From my Tivo for my Apple T.V. [TS]

  What else I've connected all these different devices for my T.V. Itself streaming from Netflix. All these things. [TS]

  Just this one elusive piece of technology. Seems not to exist which is the ability to do. [TS]

  Scrub around in a television program in anything resembling a reliable meaningful way. Is just like. [TS]

  Fast forward rewind to be like just. [TS]

  Sometimes fascinating a rewind scan totally screws a stream and you want to start from the beginning. [TS]

  Sometimes it kind of moves a little bit and stutter sometimes a perfectly good stream will stop and just like. [TS]

  I don't know what the problem is with this like I do it on web pages all the time I move a little scrubber [TS]

  and You Tube and it actually works and yet for everything connected to my television. [TS]

  If I ever want to fast forward a rewind scan. As in not jump to the beginning. Not jump to the end. [TS]

  But moving either direction. At a speed faster than one X. Playback. These applications. These devices. [TS]

  Throw up their hands and say you're crazy as not going to happen. Why don't know why are even bothering. [TS]

  Now Europe I will punish you with at least a three minute delay before any picture moves again. [TS]

  And you won't know where you are in the stream. And you won't be able to get back to where you are and sometimes. [TS]

  I'm you know. [TS]

  I'm starting over entirely I'm going to lose your place you have to start from the beginning [TS]

  and by the way you can't get back to where you left off because if you try to fast forward scan. That will mark either. [TS]

  Stream error. The president. I wonder if. [TS]

  If any part of it is related to the hardware decoding chips they use for the video codecs. [TS]

  I don't know what it's related to do [TS]

  and I know I made bets probably not the problem it's probably because they're sloppy [TS]

  and cheaply made in their software or slop. Sloppy and cheaply made I mean this is like. [TS]

  I'm really not that into the idea of a new Apple T.V. [TS]

  Right now like I mean it's fine I hope they make one and I hope it does well in everything but like. [TS]

  I'm not really excited about the idea of a new Apple T.V.. [TS]

  Hardware device because the problems I have with the existing Apple T.V. Don't seem hardware related. [TS]

  Well that's the thing that some people are saying that chat results like. When something like this happens. [TS]

  Like the puck or anything you connect your T.V. [TS]

  You're like what's the problem is the problem that I'm not getting data from the streaming service is the problem that [TS]

  the software scrap is the problem that the hardware is crappy Is it cut some combination. [TS]

  Sometimes is one problem sometimes there is a problem that you know my eyes P.S. [TS]

  Throttling connection to this thing [TS]

  and if I change my D.M.'s I'll get a better stream is the problem that the authentication service right tunes aren't [TS]

  working and really would stream fine if I got into Cajuns are reserved weren't constantly stalling [TS]

  when it's trying to reoffend to get while marching like. [TS]

  There are so many moving parts [TS]

  and there is so little that you can debug with these closed systems that you just like look either has to work all the [TS]

  time hundred percent or. You know or I just throw up my hands and I say. [TS]

  I don't know what you know you can go in tomorrow [TS]

  and then you're like well I guess I'm rebooting everything I own I guess I'm given the power because the only way I can [TS]

  get the thing to reboot because even the secret. [TS]

  Command handshake that you hold on the remote isn't working as a things frozen hard like it is so frustrating not to [TS]

  know where the problem isn't your diagnosis saying you think it's not a hardware problem. [TS]

  I think there are problems at every level and the hardware. [TS]

  Because it's old [TS]

  and the software because it's so clearly in kind of like maintenance mode I just hope like that all the good people are [TS]

  working on the new version. And a new version won't have these problems and. [TS]

  But even if they caught with a new hardware new software that's better I also believe that my connection. [TS]

  My streaming connection is crappy because I've heard that Apple uses a different connection for streaming its Net Flix [TS]

  than the other Netflix clients. [TS]

  And I think this is mostly borne out by I'm very experimental action when I can't get a stream of Apple T.V. [TS]

  Netflix client. [TS]

  I use my Tivo Netflix line and it can go to Netflix on my in a web browser on one of my Macs [TS]

  and it works it really just the whole. Interconnected mess of things that. [TS]

  That have to work correctly and in harmony for me to watch a television program streaming over the Internet [TS]

  and seems like there's always at least one out of the three layers of screwing up [TS]

  and usually all three of them are screwing up and it's very frustrating. [TS]

  The biggest the biggest frustration for me with these things. So I don't know maybe a month or two ago two months ago. [TS]

  Whatever I bought both a route to T.V. Whatever the newest who is and an Amazon Fire T.V. Late the big powerful one. [TS]

  Because there's two T.V.'s in the house and they both of Apple T.V.'s and the F.T.C. [TS]

  Are getting so flaky and like let me let me just try something else to see what everyone's talking about [TS]

  and want to check it out as I video service anyway. So they're both just of really. Mediocre. Like they're fine. [TS]

  If I had to pick one that is less crappy I guess had picked the Amazon one. [TS]

  But what's really frustrating is that the Apple T.V. Is still the best one that the press isn't me. [TS]

  I guess having the fantasy that the Roco that everyone loves who have a better. That's the problem. [TS]

  I had that fantasy too and now that I've been using them they like the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is still the best one which a few people on Twitter told me in advance so I I but I was afraid that it. [TS]

  That they would be right and then fortunate they are I mean just by general like just usability. [TS]

  The basic interface I mean these other players have had years to rip off the good stuff from Apple [TS]

  and they just haven't. And like I don't know. [TS]

  I don't know what it is I maybe they just don't have the kind of sensibilities to develop simple interfaces I don't [TS]

  know mate. Maybe they think the way to compete with Apple is by. During on a whole bunch of stuff. [TS]

  Well that is the road like the Roku was like opposite like it's the most flexible it can run plex like if it's going to [TS]

  let you do everything right. That's that's what it's trying to do but all of these boxes. [TS]

  The problem is like for all the features and all the you Iraq ever. [TS]

  Like if I could put some big giant sign like the i'd be old I.B.M. [TS]

  Think Pad or the next thing you know framed poster after that or whatever [TS]

  but I would put it all these people things were much longer [TS]

  and I had to come up with a snappy phrasing part of the bottle as. What I want to watch a program. [TS]

  I want to press a series about NS and have video play pretty much immediately. And that has to work. [TS]

  And that has to work. Every time. Maybe it's because I'm old. [TS]

  Because I come from a place where a television know if your television wasn't broken then you turned it on you could [TS]

  see moving pictures. Pretty much every time. The funny thing funny thing is like what you want out of seeking. [TS]

  V.C.R.'s offered that perfect right and then when you know exactly like. It wasn't great but you could do it on a V.C.R.. [TS]

  You can do it on D.V.D. [TS]

  It was like wow I can skip without scrubbing through you know I mean there wasn't a little static you lines on D.V.D.'s [TS]

  and you fast forward a toss you get like right we seem to have been making progress in how streaming [TS]

  when it works right it's like this is what I wanted to magic I have access to a million shows any time I want them. [TS]

  I can go to any part of it like it's amazing right there are going to spice season whole season they're really sad ones [TS]

  like all the magic at [TS]

  but all the magic crumbles into dust soon as I sit down from television person series buttons on my remote [TS]

  and moving pictures do not start happening. [TS]

  And I got an error message or something else and it's like [TS]

  and it doesn't have to happen like ninety percent of time it works right. [TS]

  But that ten percent just destroys the illusion that you know I'm living in a future where things work. [TS]

  So it's funny that the market brought up the Roku in the fire T.V. and Compared them to the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Because I maybe a month ago got a fire T.V. [TS]

  Stick which is the less powerful version of what Marco got what Marco God is physically I as far as I know is a bout [TS]

  the same size as an Apple T.V. Is a fair to say. It's like an Apple T.V. [TS]

  That's been rolled over by by a steamroller slightly so it's like. [TS]

  Just the same volume briefly but just flatter and wider OK So the fact of the stick is more like a Chromecast. [TS]

  In that it's just a little H.D. My dongle. And a little power brick to power it. [TS]

  And I got it on demand mourns recommendation because he had said he had had pretty good luck with Fire T.V. [TS]

  and I don't believe he had said he'd ever tried the stick but they're roughly equivalent. [TS]

  On less you have to release really nice home theater set up which I do not. So I got this far G.B. [TS]

  Stick I believe is forty. There's an Amazon. And I love it. [TS]

  And the reason I love it mostly is because I can use plex with it natively. [TS]

  I basically the only things I tend to do with my Apple T.V. Are airplane mirroring. [TS]

  Typically video but not always or Netflix the fired T.V. Stick. [TS]

  Doesn't natively support a fair play mirroring of course there are apps that you can download [TS]

  and pay for to get airplay mirroring. I have bought a couple and. [TS]

  They're not very good which is not surprising but there are enough in a pinch. But it has Netflix and it has plex.. [TS]

  And that is easily ninety percent of what I want out of a box care or dongle connected to my T.V. [TS]

  And again what makes the A if our T.V. Stick so wonderful for me is that the Plex support is fantastic. [TS]

  Rather than airplane. [TS]

  From my i Pad or my i Phone or yes I'm aware of that god awful hack you can do with the trailers app on the Apple T.V. [TS]

  I'm not going to do that. So it's. I love it because it works great with plex you can seek. Usually with plastics. [TS]

  It works pretty darn well with Netflix. [TS]

  So I really like it now that being said the user interface is crappy Marco is exactly right that the user interface [TS]

  it's. It's difference. But and too much Android leaks out for my taste like. [TS]

  Not that I have anything intrinsically against enjoyed but fiddly bits that I shouldn't have to worry about. [TS]

  Why just I guess I don't have to worry about them [TS]

  but they're still there like do you want to allow side loading like that why is that even an option. [TS]

  No I don't want that. [TS]

  And the way you go and get like apps is a little weird it's just like a generic search which may be. [TS]

  Is better but it's weird to me that [TS]

  when I search for plaques I could be ending up an app so I could be ending up on audiotape whatever the case may be. [TS]

  So there definitely odd bits to the user interface but by and large. [TS]

  I like it in the other thing I really like about it that just occurred to me is that the remote is either Bluetooth [TS]

  or are after something. So that you do not need to point the remote at the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Which is really awesome because our Apple T.V. Is kind of tucked away a little bit and not. [TS]

  Extraordinarily easy to point a remote at so for all of those reasons I really love my Fire T.V. [TS]

  Stick and I definitely recommend it if. [TS]

  If your if you have similar needs from your device that I do now Marco I think you have very different needs from your [TS]

  device and. As far as I recall you get a lot of your media through i Tunes is that right. It's not as much anymore. [TS]

  The. The the constant. D.R. Am. Errors on authentication trying to play my media that I bought from i Tunes. [TS]

  Is really convincing me to try to stop doing that. [TS]

  I actually went when I got these boxes I did start using plex I installed myself lecture the very first time. [TS]

  Using plex. For me feels a lot like building a gaming P.C. In the sense that I'm getting a lot of functionality. [TS]

  More than I actually really need. [TS]

  But also coming at a cost of maintenance and fiddle Enos that I'm sure I just have settings wrong. [TS]

  But it's just so freakin fiddly plaques. Yeah. There's nothing the only fiddly thing about plex. [TS]

  Is that you have to use their naming convention which is not my favorite [TS]

  but not so egregious that I can't bend to it other than that. Everything just works magically. [TS]

  I can watch my media that. Stored in mice Knology anywhere in the world as long as I haven't or an Internet connection. [TS]

  It will automatically transcode on the fly to whatever my speed is as it sees fit. [TS]

  And it will grab all the Mehta data it needs as long as I name things appropriately like I I could not disagree more [TS]

  I've had nothing but wonderful experiences with plex. I've tried to use plex but like. [TS]

  My problem is always been I don't have anything attached to my television that can run it. [TS]

  And once the P S four version of blacks came out I'm like now finally well. [TS]

  Now this is I might be a story still attached to my television but anyway. [TS]

  I know I figured all the P S four isn't like came out I should try it and I did and it's very bad [TS]

  and the set up process was super painful [TS]

  and there's no way a human could have figured out the crap that I had to go through to try to get this thing to work in [TS]

  terms of opening ports on my modem ng. Getting reverse look up there which is like insanity right. [TS]

  But really what I'm what I'm looking for out of yes it does just because the P S four I've used plucked on my mac [TS]

  before and it's weight and eyes are like the mac version of flex if I get the MAC merchant likes on my T.V. [TS]

  Set by having an act many or something it would make a big difference. Right. [TS]

  But anyway what I'm looking for out of plaques and why it probably know I'm alive [TS]

  or have it as I think what you're talking about K.C. The dream thing. Sort of the. [TS]

  The software connected box equivalent of the omnivorous box that I was dreaming about way back when like that. [TS]

  Some will make a box that takes the take video input from everywhere [TS]

  and unifies it so I don't care where it comes from. [TS]

  And it would do everything like No never made that and no one ever probably will. [TS]

  The software Kovan of that is like plex where it's like give me your video. [TS]

  Do you have random Bit Torrent things you illegally download the you have videos that you rip do you have videos of [TS]

  your kid do you. Blue Ray extractions that you made with them K.V. Make em Kavi from. You know Blu rays that you own. [TS]

  I don't care where this video came from. You just throw it all into the pit and. I don't care what you deem them. [TS]

  I don't care what's in them. I have this crazy. You know. [TS]

  Crowd sourced Internet power database Well I will figure out what the heck these files are all look at the you know the [TS]

  fingerprints of the data. [TS]

  Organize it into seasons give you cover [TS]

  or give you descriptions of every episode like Plax does a hell of a lot of that. [TS]

  Plex you can more or less throw a bunch of stuff that like the metadata look up the cover art. [TS]

  The being able to play a million different crazy formats transcoding on the fly. [TS]

  Doing all that stuff plex and various other utilities and other sort of software to do a lot of that. [TS]

  But they're a little bit flaky. [TS]

  They can't really play every file that you download sometimes the device you're running it on can't transcode fast [TS]

  enough to handle this thing sometimes you lose the five point one track and it mixes it down to something else. [TS]

  You can't see the special features from your D.V.D.'s or Blu rays like the limitation just got stacking up [TS]

  and stacking up. [TS]

  And because no one none of the legit people are motivated to be able to take your legal downloads [TS]

  or your rips of D.V.D.'s and figure out what they are [TS]

  and sort them into sessions Apple's never going to do that like Rochas probably not even going to do that other than [TS]

  running a plex Op Right. [TS]

  And so this is definitely an in-between stage where we are in a transition from broadcast television to streaming [TS]

  television. And there's lots of sort of do it yourself are solutions that work to varying degrees but. [TS]

  I feel like to come over the hump. The non-broadcast television. Experience. [TS]

  Needs to be like the old one in one specific way. When you press play video has to play. [TS]

  And I don't care where the problem isn't it is anyone else is there with the networks is that I a speed fighting with [TS]

  with. You know the. Netflix or something is it the hardware is it my. [TS]

  My router is the jumbo packets like I don't care I just want video to play. [TS]

  And I have to say of all you know all this complaining about streaming devices. [TS]

  The one television connected device [TS]

  and I have my house that is closest to the ideal of press playing video place is the Tivo. Why. [TS]

  Because it's piggybacking on the Old Crow the coaxial cable that comes into my house that delivers television which has [TS]

  you know developed over the years to be different than what it was. But yeah. [TS]

  You know I have a cable card goes in the case because I feel cable goes into the back of my T.V. [TS]

  I pay for all the pay channels I pay for all the fancy stuff right. [TS]

  And then to the hard drive and an incredibly weak C.P.U. and A bunch of video decoding chips. That record. [TS]

  Six of those channels at once onto a hard drive and when I press play it plays the video off that hard drive and [TS]

  when I fast ordinary want it fast forwards only once and it works every time and it doesn't crash [TS]

  and I don't get authentication errors and that's you know. [TS]

  It does have a Netflix Hine on it which is flaky and it does have all these other streaming club. [TS]

  Client what it's like a but for the core purpose of recording video that's coming over my house [TS]

  or the coaxial cable that I pay for it works. And so my vast preference is record Game of Thrones. On my Tivo. [TS]

  Watch it on my Tivo. Yes I've H.B.O. GO Yes I have H.B.O. Now I have lovable blah. [TS]

  You know and I know will work sit down in front of a turn and go down again out there on to play the video play. [TS]

  Every time it plays. And that. [TS]

  Like that's going to keep me loyal to Tivo [TS]

  and going to keep me paying my whatever the heck it is huge bill for real live old fashioned cable service in till the [TS]

  streaming people can get their acts together to the point where now I can start choosing things based on features [TS]

  or pricing or something like that the Right now I'm choosing based on reliability. Yeah. I hear that. [TS]

  I mean it sounds like we all sort of have our own unique needs. Jon apparently boils down to just freaking work. [TS]

  But yeah I don't know it's. It's sad that this hasn't been solved which I know. [TS]

  I think this is where you started John but it's sad that this is still that that. [TS]

  Marco and I both felt like we needed two different manufacturers boxes in order to fix this problem and. [TS]

  Neither of us feels completely satisfied with that fix. Yet all of us have multiple things like I have. [TS]

  I watch things from Netflix and I choose the Apple T.V. To be run out of client because no fan. [TS]

  I watch things from streaming video I buy things from i Tunes like I do all of it. [TS]

  Right but it's like when I have a choice sometimes you don't have a choice like when I have a choice to. [TS]

  So as my go to. But if I don't I go down the cascade. [TS]

  Want to try to stream and liason ology or want to try to watch an Apple T.V. [TS]

  and Have a fly [TS]

  and on trying to T.V.'s building that decline sometimes I make the rounds until one of the works right sometimes my [TS]

  kids want to watch a movie that I have. I bought an i Tunes. I haven't illegally downloaded file. [TS]

  I have the blue right. I have the D.V.D. This is very common case there are movies where I have all those things right. [TS]

  And it's like how how should have should we watch that file. [TS]

  Is it important to make picture is moving on the television as fast as possible before the kid gets cranky. [TS]

  Or is it for me is an important because of the family viewing that I'm going to take out the actual Blu ray disc [TS]

  and put it in because that has the highest modality video and sound [TS]

  and that's very important to me isn't why on a big stack of Blu rays right. [TS]

  Because movies that I already own [TS]

  and they already watch I like to have a Blue Ray if I really care about the movie because that is the best quality. [TS]

  So having to be like a connoisseur of like. How do I want to watch this today. [TS]

  And having to pick based on quality and rely on reliability [TS]

  and speed in which one is just going to work especially with like illegal downloads.. [TS]

  Which thing will actually successfully places. Let's try to drag me from this analogy on my T.V. [TS]

  Let's try it through the Playstation media Sarah let's try to pluck Let's try transporting it manually and like. [TS]

  You know sometimes you just want to watch a movie. Well in this kind of part it is like I've hired almost nothing. [TS]

  And it still sucks. Like you can do everything. Quote right. You can. [TS]

  You can do you can totally buy into one of the existence of the you know whether it's the Apple ecosystem the Amazon [TS]

  whatever. You can totally buy into it you can do everything right. The way most people do. And it still doesn't. [TS]

  Work very well. It's worse because that's a monoculture you need biological diversity. Right that's doing. [TS]

  Illegally has the advantage that there won't be like an skippable F.B.I. [TS]

  Warnings at the front of it you'll be able you will have to fight through it seven layers of menus in [TS]

  and downloading your job updates on your Blu ray player just to get in the movie like pirating is almost always better [TS]

  but then like OK well now I don't get the. [TS]

  I don't like the way this is transcode it or it was cropped wrong [TS]

  or I don't like the the audio tracks that are included in this are they don't get the director's commentary there's [TS]

  always trade offs but I would say overall illegal. Gives you a better experience like. [TS]

  Again even for movies that I own the dysphoric sometimes. If I just want to watch the thing right now. [TS]

  I will look at the even the RIP version of it [TS]

  or the illegally downloaded version of it because I know I'll get to the movie part faster. Well that's. [TS]

  And that's one of the reasons why. [TS]

  I've been ripping on my Blu rays using Don Milton scripts because like I bought this L.G. [TS]

  Blu ray Ripper and I have this next mini that's doing this for a live stream now and [TS]

  when it's not doing life for main task is doing. Plex and we were ripping and. [TS]

  I'm doing all that because I keep having these stupid errors of stuff I've actually bought on i Tunes. [TS]

  And like you know like when my kid wants to watch a Pixar movie. [TS]

  And we try to play it and it doesn't and I can't get it playing. [TS]

  After ten minutes of fiddling with stuff because of random Apple T.V. or C.D.N. or Service errors. [TS]

  I want to just have it locally on the LAN and have it play. What used to work rate. But now home sharing sucks. [TS]

  And like it's like everything sucks. Should never turned up jumbo frames Margot. Like I really like. I don't get. [TS]

  It is so frustrating and the good thing is I think there is there is hope in sight. Right now. [TS]

  There is kind of this this. Inconvenient. Hole in this NG The division of the market right now because you can't get. [TS]

  Like all the big stuff in one box basically because the biggest offenders are that apple. The Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is the problem a sickly that that Apple T.V. The only thing they can play i Tunes stuff. And the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Can't for the most part can't do plex. And it can't play Amazon and video. If there is a future Apple T.V. [TS]

  Coming out soon. That offers an applet form. [TS]

  Maybe that is how Apple kind of finally quietly allow those things to happen on the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Without having to partner with our mix they really probably wouldn't want to do. And without having to. [TS]

  You know install plex was built an application. Might you know. [TS]

  Cause piracy concern pressure from their content partners whatever. [TS]

  Like if they like but if they're just another Apple T.V. That has great hardware and. And that platform. [TS]

  And they permit. Plex and Amazon T.V. [TS]

  To build apps for it which they almost certainly would then that I think will be a really great box potentially. [TS]

  If it actually works. [TS]

  And baby by then they will have fixed discovery Division I assume is probably what's causing the all the home sharing [TS]

  issues. [TS]

  I still feel like the I A speedy issue isn't resolved like the battle between the content providers [TS]

  and the content owners whether it be H.B.O. [TS]

  or Netflix or some combination and the I A species who just want to cut of everything [TS]

  and want you know like the whole strangling networks that they know the. [TS]

  Netflix content comes from and charging like a whole new trail anything like that that need to sort out. [TS]

  Everything to work even of all the hardware and software. [TS]

  and business deals get worked out on the device connected your T.V. [TS]

  If the I was pissed on a spat with one or more of those people. [TS]

  Your experience is going to suck [TS]

  and is like nothing you can do about it because you'll do like a speed like you've got one hundred megabits down [TS]

  but you can't watch a video. And more than for any. [TS]

  He and even then a stall sometimes it's like why am I even paying for this service and. [TS]

  You know it's that they get the. You know the H.B.O. [TS]

  Now deal that was part of the thank you note with the one part MacBook right. It's called an epic one now John. [TS]

  Yes as are calling everyone a before we do the H.B.O. On stuff let's let's thank our last concert. Our last sponsor is. [TS]

  Harry's go to Harry's dot com. H A R R Y S. Dot com and use promo code A.T.P. For five bucks off your first purchase. [TS]

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  Usually see in drugstores. [TS]

  Here's a started by two guys who wanted a better product without paying an arm [TS]

  and a leg to make their own blades from their own factory is action old blade factory in German that they light so much [TS]

  that they bought the factory. These are high quality high performing German blades. [TS]

  Crafted by shaving experts and this is not you know. It's I was reading a little bit low up on this for this week. [TS]

  It is surprisingly difficult to make really good disposable razor blades. It is. There's a lot of engineering letter R. [TS]

  and D. Goes into that. [TS]

  This is a longstanding factor they've been doing this stuff for a very long time and they know how to do it [TS]

  and they these blades they make it give you a better shave. That respects your face. And your wallet. [TS]

  Harry's offers factory direct pricing at a fraction of the big brand prices. [TS]

  They are usually about half the price or less compared to something like like a like a July fusion [TS]

  or zone like that which I would say. I would say the July fusion is the most direct. [TS]

  The most the most equivalent rival in the market. Eight pack of Harry's blades. Is just fifteen bucks. [TS]

  A sixteen package or twenty five bucks for reference. [TS]

  Twelve fusion blades are forty one dollars twelve Harry's blades are just twenty dollars so it's bronze about half the [TS]

  price of the big razor brands. Now. The Harry starter set is an amazing deal for fifteen bucks. [TS]

  You get a razor moisturizing shave cream or jail your choice. And three razor blades. [TS]

  Really this is incredible deal here and there. They have great packaging they have a great design skill over there. [TS]

  I would say. [TS]

  They really have like kind of like the modern hip flash Mad Men aesthetic nailed like and it is nice like old style [TS]

  but modernized and you know still it still has that classy old look. [TS]

  That handles can be like nice and weighty and metal [TS]

  and polish you know you don't feel like using like an android commercial. [TS]

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  Eighty's robots. I love their designs of their stuff. [TS]

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  A.T.P. To say five dollars off your first purchase. Thank you very much to Harry's for sponsoring once again. [TS]

  So back to the H.B.O. Deal that came up in the last appliqueing no. Yeah. This is. Framed as an apple. [TS]

  When But really it is just the natural evolution of H.B.O. [TS]

  In the past they were a thing you had to buy as a premium addition to your cable bill. Then they had the H.B.O. GO. [TS]

  Application which first you could only watch and I was devices and then eventually let you stream here television [TS]

  but the important point was you couldn't do anything with that I was at all unless you had a cable subscription that [TS]

  included H.B.O. and That. [TS]

  Frustrated people because they were like a might be Algis the future we the whole point of us watching your content on [TS]

  our streaming of all you know people T.V. Puck thing. Or on our i Phone or on our i Pad. [TS]

  Is that we don't want to pay for cable in fact we're cable gutters been don't want to pay for cable at all except [TS]

  across for internet access which will never get rid of that but anyway. [TS]

  We don't want to pay for cable television we don't watch E.S.P.N. [TS]

  or You know that we watch it on their website or we watch things on You Tube or whatever. [TS]

  Like divorce your service from the cable television is straight. And now finally at H.B.O. [TS]

  Is ready to do that they're not ready to do it themselves because apparently their technology act is not together on [TS]

  the whole H.B.O. Go front so they're outsourcing it I believe to the end all be the T.V. [TS]

  People the people who do Major League Baseball television string which by all accounts despite the silly blackout [TS]

  nonsense. The actual stream part of it works pretty well. So there are high hopes for this business if you pay them. [TS]

  Fifteen dollars a month you can watch H.B.O. [TS]

  You don't need to have a cable subscription all you need to some device that can do this [TS]

  and it is exclusive to Apple for how long like six months or three months or. I thought it was three. [TS]

  But I've also heard that it's not really exclusive to Apple I didn't read up on this because I don't really watch [TS]

  H.B.O. and I don't have H.B.O. [TS]

  but I could swear I had read somewhere recently that it may or may not actually be exclusive. [TS]

  But the deal is like you know so the new season of Game of Thrones is starting [TS]

  and Apple did just drop the price on it's also a pocket thing. So for sixty nine dollars. [TS]

  Cord cutters can buy a talk and fifteen dollars a month. They can watch Game of Thrones they can watch it in theory. [TS]

  Whenever they want without a cable subscription without. Barring some borrowing quote unquote someone's H.B.O. [TS]

  Go password or does described H.B.O. Which was the past practice. [TS]

  And for a short period of time which includes the time that the Game of Thrones. [TS]

  Season will be from airing the only way to do this or. [TS]

  According to Apple only way is on their particular thing but that will expire and very soon I'm sure H.B.O. [TS]

  Now will be available everywhere and it's a guy who always all wanted out of H.B.O. [TS]

  and This is the slow crumbling of all the people who are holding out. [TS]

  Holding the line and old media going towards like what Mark was an eventual given Tendulkar platform. [TS]

  Kind of like we have an i OS today was a series of applications that you can use to watch you know N.B.A. or An L.B.O. [TS]

  or Maybe. I don't know if N.F.L. Is out there all these three letter acronyms for sport things and none of us watch. [TS]

  I do. Yeah. Do they have an i Phone app you can I mean I mean they do. But it only is useful if you get N.F.L.. [TS]

  Sunday Ticket which you can. Only get if your Direct T.V. Subscriber or live in like the U.K. [TS]

  So those deals like that they're still kind of entrenched [TS]

  but trying to slowly divorce themselves like that I shouldn't have to pay for cable television [TS]

  or satellite television or whatever. I should just be able to Alex hard by the. [TS]

  Still you know it's not the shows you are still buying the channels you want right you're buying H.B.O. [TS]

  You're not buying Game of Thrones. People would rather just be able to Game of Thrones. [TS]

  About buying the season and i Tunes after it's already aired over and over or the day after it aired like. [TS]

  We're narrowing it going to closer and closer used to be. [TS]

  You couldn't get a digital version of a television show ever [TS]

  and then you get a digital version of the television show much later and then you get the next day. [TS]

  and now you're going to be able to watch of the same time as the people who subscribe to H.B.O. [TS]

  Again in theory because if their service crush. Are crushed under the weight of all the. The evil trying to do that. [TS]

  I know my Tivo over Court and I'll be able to watch it in real time. That's a great thing about H.B.O. [TS]

  No commercials you know how to. You know you can watch in real time because you know the way the commercials to cue up. [TS]

  But anyway. I continue to watch those things on my nice reliable T.V. [TS]

  but They're trying to get to the future and I feel like if people go out and get the sixty nine dollars Talk. [TS]

  So they can watch it and pay This is Gretchen dates B.S. They can watch a game of thrones finally in. [TS]

  You know without borrowing someone's password without having to scribed H.B.O. [TS]

  and They plug in the pocket to turn it on they're all excited to watch and they got their popcorn [TS]

  or maybe some friends over in it play and it doesn't play.. [TS]

  They're not going to be excited about the future of streaming T.V. [TS]

  They're going to regret that sixty nine dollars purchase on the new Apple T.V. [TS]

  Comes out to ninety nine dollars they're not going to be enthused about buying that. It is. [TS]

  So easy to sour and normal person not a geek but like a semi normal person on the experience of T.V. [TS]

  Connected talks by just having a not work once. And I'm going. You know what I don't like paying for cable. [TS]

  I didn't like paying extra on top of cable for H.B.O. but At least I can watch my show when I want to watch my show. [TS]

  I have nothing to have agree with you completely I mean I think you know that they fought for three sponsors this week. [TS]

  Writers T.V. Squarespace and Harrys and we will see you next week. Now the show is over. [TS]

  They didn't even mean to be good because it was accidental. It was accidental. John C. [TS]

  Would because it was that was a death was accidental. And you and. [TS]

  He was no says that that's king lists and A [TS]

  and team article says that risky is the stories they caught while watching the stories. Well. [TS]

  Marco we talked a little bit earlier. [TS]

  And we told you to save it for the after show about how you're falling out of love with Twitter which is funny because [TS]

  I feel like you're coming to a conclusion quicker than I am [TS]

  but I have been having similar feelings about what is really. It's Twitter really doing anything positive for me. [TS]

  Or is it just making me angry all the time like the thing that I quoted to you guys before I put on the show was my you [TS]

  look up an avid any of you recognize the quote I was referencing when market first talked about this you know. [TS]

  This is this is an older quote is from seventeen seventy seven I don't know if you guys remember back that far. [TS]

  You know. We're not as old as you John it seems Samuel Johnson and the the. Well known part of it is already the thing. [TS]

  You find Gnome and at all intellectual who is going to leave London. [TS]

  No sir when a man is tired of London he is tired of life for there is in London all that life can afford and. [TS]

  That was my way of saying that it's not specifically. Twitter. [TS]

  That is attire something in that I think at this point Twitter offers. All that life can afford more or less. [TS]

  Is it is exposure Jews lots of people which can happen anywhere on the Internet whether it be in a usenet group where [TS]

  the exact same toxic things that Mark was going to discuss I'm sure. Haven't you know. Could happen and did happen.. [TS]

  Or it could be R.C. Or it could be web forums are Web old inboard that rare all L.O.L. [TS]

  Chat room newsgroup thing that and I was ever an A.O.L. One of those things are called like. [TS]

  The problem is not the medium. [TS]

  The problem is and in fact Twitter folly better than most in the way that it handles their social interactions [TS]

  and limiting people and having a symmetrical fall and everything is you know. Being tired of life. [TS]

  And I'm not saying that that Demi's is wrong [TS]

  or anything I'm saying like that we should put the blame where it lies which is like you know other people suck. [TS]

  Right and OR WHATEVER THEY ARE YOU want to deal with like. [TS]

  How how are you current feeling like I'm gonna put a video game turns like how how are your shields. [TS]

  Holding up against the current onslaught right. Are you feeling weak. [TS]

  Are you feeling strong do you feel like it's wearing you down doing something negative [TS]

  and disengaging is the way you deal with that like if your shields are going down you get bombarded from all sides. [TS]

  You. [TS]

  You know you go elsewhere you pull your ship back you hide behind a rock and let your ships regenerate [TS]

  and I'm mixing videogame metaphors here [TS]

  but like treat it like the Halo thing that so you know you can step back for a minute new recharger things are right [TS]

  and what I'm getting at is that it's not so much. [TS]

  Twitter specifically it could really could be anything it could be blog comments of your comments on your blog on the [TS]

  way to fix that might be to turn off comments could be people sending you hateful e-mails like there are many vectors [TS]

  to rich people who have any amount of notoriety can be put upon by others [TS]

  and can start to affect them for a variety of reasons and I think. [TS]

  Ignatian that and dealing with it in a way that works best for you is healthy. [TS]

  My only point with the tired of life thing is that. [TS]

  I don't think it's specific to Twitter or any one thing and I don't think shifting you're used to like app dot net [TS]

  or usenet or going back to our C.E.O. [TS]

  or Direct nothing is going to solve that problem that is not a technology problem is just a like a thing that you have [TS]

  to deal with the goes in cycles and you have to deal with no matter where it is [TS]

  and you have to do whatever you need to do to make yourself. You know. Be Happier essentially. [TS]

  So I actually agree with most of what you just said. [TS]

  It's not the problem I have with Twitter the problem having is partly my fault. It is partly that. [TS]

  That it is [TS]

  and I've talked about before like struggles with trying to keep my tour usage under control so it's not just constantly [TS]

  sucking away. Little bits of time throughout the day and just the in this massive time suck and distraction suck. [TS]

  Which which hurts my part to the end when I see my report from Rescue Time. Every week and it's how I spend X. [TS]

  Hours in Twitter. I don't feel good about that. So that's part of the problem. And I've always had that problem. [TS]

  And I've tried different techniques over the years to try to minimize that like. [TS]

  You know only using it on my phone or only using it notification center or. You know. [TS]

  Quitting it during the workday or whatever and they've all done. [TS]

  Slight help here and there [TS]

  but they mostly just kind of move the problem around they don't really tend to reduce the problem meaningfully. [TS]

  The problem there is just me that I want to keep in gauging and interacting with Twitter. [TS]

  You're going on tour explosions right I know you don't have that problem. [TS]

  If you were I would say that's one thing you could definitely see another problem that I have is that I'm not keeping [TS]

  up because so much is going on on Twitter. I'm missing what my friends are saying. [TS]

  And I recently like a couple weeks ago. [TS]

  I don't follow about about a third of the people I was following like I went through [TS]

  and tried to call as much as I could. [TS]

  And I started using mutes here and there [TS]

  but I had that's a little too much work for me so I'm not going to do much of it but. [TS]

  But the problem is that all of my friends. For the most part are talking to each other on Twitter. [TS]

  And if I want to keep up with what my friends are doing or talking about or what's going on in the world. [TS]

  I am to be reading that right now. I'm already. Not reading most of it because I'm not a completionist. [TS]

  I can't keep up so I'm already not reading it but I'm missing all that at the same time. [TS]

  If I want to talk to my friends. In that context if I want to be part of the conversation. Where in public. [TS]

  And so what I what I need. What I'm looking for is some separation. You know in public it. [TS]

  Somebody had forget who some somebody about a year ago I heard talk of there they were comparing like having a [TS]

  conversation. Briefly with your friends on Twitter. [TS]

  It's like having a conversation like on your front porch with somebody. [TS]

  And there's tons of people walking by on the sidewalk and they yell you like responses. [TS]

  You weren't part of the conversation. And they're like yelling butting in like you're Did they like what do you like. [TS]

  Get off my porch like [TS]

  but that's one of the strengths of her as well because if it was only happening in private fewer people would benefit [TS]

  the reason it kind of works the way it does is that. [TS]

  Groups of people can sort of organically form who like discussing a particular topic [TS]

  and like you're doing it in public. [TS]

  Partially because you want some of the public to see it for you don't want to people going by your parts [TS]

  and yelling at you while you're doing your thing but you do want to say maybe this interested guy who you met once [TS]

  or twice will hear conversation joining kind of like at a party right like so the public major Twitter is both a [TS]

  strength and weakness. And how it plays out really depends on how many people are walking by your part so to speak. [TS]

  And I agree that that you know that is an important strength of Twitter. What I like that that exists. [TS]

  I don't like that that is the far and away dominant place that. [TS]

  My friends interact with each other and that I need to interact with my friends like. We are always in public. [TS]

  And I think it should be the opposite I think. I think we should interact in public sometimes and. Most of the time. [TS]

  It would be more pleasant. If it was private. And so there's you know different ways to do that there's you know. [TS]

  Chat rooms and stuff. Slacken. You know stuff like that. [TS]

  I think I'd rather spend more time looking into still fight that these days because it is it is so exhausting. [TS]

  It is like. [TS]

  You know I like I was just at a conference and being a conference was great [TS]

  but most Postgres people on Twitter are not as nice as the attendees of will. And it's a much bigger crowd on Twitter. [TS]

  You know imagine going to a conference where you have you know tens of thousands of people all around you [TS]

  and listen to everything you say. [TS]

  Be and being ready to butt in [TS]

  and so you're going to get a lot of good stuff that you going to meet a lot of good people. [TS]

  Hearing a lot of good ideas. And good conversations out of that. [TS]

  We're also going to get a lot of jerks in specially if it's free to enter to enter and nobody knows your name [TS]

  and you don't have to show your face. So it is exhausting. [TS]

  After a while to be always partially or fully in public like that [TS]

  when you're really just trying to have like everyday interactions with mostly just your friends. And you're welcome. [TS]

  Like. It's like always being a conference. So there is value in being in a conference sometimes. [TS]

  But there is also like. There's a certain level of certain threshold of like sanity where like. You can't be. [TS]

  Publicly performing all the time and have that be mentally healthy at least I can't. [TS]

  And so what I'm saying is not that Twitter is bad and by the way. [TS]

  And a lot of people rightly point out in the chat room like much of the problem [TS]

  when people complain about quote Twitter is they're complaining about the group they're following to pay attention to. [TS]

  I I'm aware that social networks are what you make of them with what you choose to follow. [TS]

  However Internet really Twitter. They are not what you make of them as. In terms of who talks to you. [TS]

  And what you receive. That is mostly up to the public I mean you can. [TS]

  You can like you know try to avoid talking about certain topics which is stupid [TS]

  but you know you can you can do stuff like that to try to minimize what you get but for the most part. [TS]

  Once you have a non-trivial sized audience. You're going to have random jerks talking all the time. [TS]

  And in a jerky way and. No matter how much good is interspersed throughout that. It's really exhausting. [TS]

  Well the problem is that the cost of entry to affecting somebody else's day. Is almost zero. [TS]

  Because you can fire off this hundred forty character or less message to darn near anyone you want. And that's free. [TS]

  And it takes almost no time and. Just like you were saying John that's one of the strengths of Twitter is that it's. [TS]

  You can you can get messages across quickly and easily. [TS]

  Then you can have access to almost anyone on the planet if you so desire. Like celebrities. [TS]

  And when I'm talking about like actual celebrities not a story idea [TS]

  but the problem with that is all of these people also have access to you and the thing that I've been struggling with. [TS]

  With regard to Twitter is. [TS]

  I feel like maybe I'm just becoming more sensitive I thought of becoming I didn't becoming less sensitive [TS]

  but I feel like I'm seeing more and more negative or not constructive comments coming my way that bother me. [TS]

  And granted the easy answer is Well don't let a bar. [TS]

  Bother you you idiot but it's hard I'm not good at just putting up that wall so like for example. [TS]

  I had put up a post about Apple Pay and about how I thought it was crummy that when my card had expired. D. [TS]

  Card didn't update which I've since found out a. It is theoretically capable of doing if the bank handles it right. [TS]

  And it also didn't tell me when I went to use it to use that the Apple Pay. [TS]

  Version of the credit card that had expired just that denied. So I wrote a post about that Will somebody tweeted. [TS]

  Apple Pay messaging. At Casey last You're being ridiculous keep track of your cards. [TS]

  Sorry that I made an honest mistake. [TS]

  But did you also learn about the fact that your bank if your bank could handle it correctly that it wouldn't happen to [TS]

  you also learn about that on Twitter or from some stranger. [TS]

  I learned about it from from some friends [TS]

  but I also eventually heard about it on Twitter is a blessing in the curse like you will a made it with any kind of [TS]

  like you know father anything we talk about here we are wrong. [TS]

  Many people will tell us which I like I like the fact that you know that's an advantage of having an audience. [TS]

  Some of the people who tell you lean about it. [TS]

  That's the price you pay for having a bunch of people tell you like solve your problems for you know I'm not a lot of [TS]

  people like a lot of people who only see the upside would love to do that they like you know boy it must be good to [TS]

  have a popular tech products as because you can say hey I'm having trouble getting my Who's it working with my whatever. [TS]

  And then a million people tell you how to get them to work together [TS]

  and like some percentage of those people be right and you will you'll have yourself Robin Wright. [TS]

  But then some percent of people will be jerks like when I had my jumbo frame issue. [TS]

  It would never I would never have found that problem. If. [TS]

  If I had asked on Twitter and gotten hundreds of responses of what it might be. And like two of them said jumbo frames. [TS]

  And they were that was that of being right. I am so lucky to have such a big audience on Twitter that I can. [TS]

  That I have access to that kind of information. [TS]

  I'm so lucky that I have a big enough audience that I can launch products and write blog post to get attention. [TS]

  Like the audience has. Like I have built in attention for anything I do now. [TS]

  That's the problem that's why I would feel like a jerk just walking away from this. Both both. I would feel ungrateful. [TS]

  To other people who have been following me. [TS]

  And also I would feel like I was throwing away a giant professional advantage. So I feel like I can't leave Twitter. [TS]

  Yeah. But. But that's why I need to find a better balance. But yeah that's a skill. [TS]

  Like like anything else is a skill you have to develop it's like you know. I had none of us. [TS]

  Experience with us because you imagine running a huge company being being the C.E.O. [TS]

  Of a company with thousands of employees like that is not usually a natural thing that most people used to like you [TS]

  know used to just dealing with yourself when you're a kid and you learn to gain responsibility [TS]

  but like it is it is at these extremes of extreme ratios of you to other people. [TS]

  It's a skill that you have to learn there. [TS]

  You know there are things you can learn about being a manager and being a C.E.O. [TS]

  or Running a large company like you just have to figure out right and you have to you know research them [TS]

  and learn them and some people are just not cut out for any goal never be a good C.E.O. [TS]

  or A good manager of a lot of you because it's just not how they work right so if suddenly you get an audience [TS]

  and you have to deal with notoriety and fame and a lot of input from other people. [TS]

  You have to either learn to deal with that are learning what your limits are learn that I don't want to be the C.E.O. [TS]

  Of a big company because no matter how good I could possibly get out of doing so doesn't make me happy how big are you [TS]

  comfortable how [TS]

  but you know you see a lot with actual celebrities who get big because of some talent they have they're in it there in [TS]

  a hit movie they're a great singer that hit song or something and very often the prerequisites to get that fame. [TS]

  Being very talented. Being a good actor. [TS]

  Being in the right place of the right time some combination of things are totally unrelated to the ability to deal with [TS]

  the fame that is going to come with that. [TS]

  You know the ones that stick the ones that stay are like yes they're really talented [TS]

  and also they are able to figure out how to have a successful well balanced life. [TS]

  In the face of what must be you know the insane onslaught of like real fame right. [TS]

  Other people have the talent get the notoriety and very clearly can't deal with the onslaught of Real same [TS]

  and have tragic terrible lives. We are lucky that in our tiny little dose of notoriety here. [TS]

  It's unlikely that Marco is going to you know. [TS]

  Go on a bender and drive his test lawful cliff or something like You know it's it's just but. [TS]

  But I think that's why I think our problem is more relatable because I think everybody has a. [TS]

  You know even if it's just like someone said something mean on your Facebook post. [TS]

  You know who was like an acquaintance or someone you knew in high school and that ruins your day. [TS]

  That's pretty much a level we're talking about here it's not like we're getting bombarded with thousands of people [TS]

  hating us. [TS]

  It but it doesn't take much it just takes one person making one main comment to make the make you think like [TS]

  and are used to that are used to acquaintances [TS]

  or even strangers perhaps telling you mean things about yourself maybe that's not something that happens in your [TS]

  regular life but suddenly it happens in the Internet because they have access to you [TS]

  and everyone I think like added to the complaint we get when we talk about it's like [TS]

  when you start talking about your problems of like oh you have a lot of two of our lives I think everybody if you have [TS]

  one Twitter for all of you have ten people who read your face. Everybody has this problem. [TS]

  At pretty much exactly the same scale we do. Because what we're talking about here is. [TS]

  Handfuls of of negative feedback from people because we're not. [TS]

  You know it's not we're not that big and I think our handful. Is within an order of magnitude of your handful. [TS]

  And is really the same type of scope of problem I think everybody who has any interaction any social media [TS]

  or any sort of one to many communication medium it's not just like face to face. [TS]

  Has to deal with this and has to figure out what are my limits. [TS]

  How do I feel about this am I going to grow a thicker skin [TS]

  or am I going to pretend I'm going a thicker skin really I'm just internalizing it all in all [TS]

  and all come to a breaking point [TS]

  and I like snap at my children I realize I'm snapping at them because someone said something mean to me on my Facebook [TS]

  post. Two days ago and I'm still thinking about it right. [TS]

  That that I couldn't agree more that's exactly how I feel that I'm trying to just fabricate a thicker skin. [TS]

  But I don't think I've actually built a thicker skin yet. And it's hard. It's a hard thing to deal with. It's weird. [TS]

  And I think a an ecstasy said a couple things in the chap that I thought were great. [TS]

  Some people are pleasured interact with others just suck your energy. [TS]

  And I think that's a really good way of putting it that that I see this comment like oh don't be ridiculous keep track [TS]

  of your You're being ridiculous keep track of your cards [TS]

  and just kind of like sucks the air out of my day a little bit. [TS]

  Showed it no I should be big enough to realize is some stranger that. I'm never going to interact with and. [TS]

  That shouldn't bother me but it does [TS]

  and that then the thing I'm struggling with again coming back to next to see is in his [TS]

  or her case I wall so say the older I get the less tolerance of energy sucking people I become I put up with a lot more [TS]

  crap at eighteen than I do at forty eight. And I feel like even in the last couple of years I've gained something and. [TS]

  I can't say notoriety because I was corrected once that it's not notoriety it's fame for us because we didn't do bad [TS]

  things. Then he was as I get more fame. [TS]

  I'm finding that I have less and less tolerance in time for the that kind of energy sock. [TS]

  And I've noticed kind of building on what Marco it said that I'm getting much more aggressive with. [TS]

  The block button and and. And those sorts of things. Then I ever have been in the past and granted. [TS]

  I'm you know just freshly thirty three. Been so it's not that I'm getting to old age but even as I'm getting older. [TS]

  At this age. I'm finding that. Less and less tolerant of it and. [TS]

  And where we started this conversation is where I'm coming back to now which is. [TS]

  Is it really worth me getting upset over these random strangers on the Internet and. [TS]

  I feel like I'm getting more and more upset over time and in fact. At the end of last year in December. [TS]

  And this is a little bit of a corollary for half or so of December. [TS]

  I kept track every single day of what Twitter was pissed off about. Because I felt like every day. [TS]

  There was some unbelievable travesty that Twitter was all fired up about every single day now that oftentimes I didn't [TS]

  relate to me at all but that much negativity man. [TS]

  All my goodness eventually just wears on you [TS]

  and the reason I kept track of this because I ended tended to post a blog post about it. As it turns out. [TS]

  Right around the time that the right I just midway through the month. Somebody I want to see it maybe it was time. [TS]

  But somebody put up a post that had basically done that for an entire here. [TS]

  And so at that point I figured well my post wasn't really worth it [TS]

  but it's just it's stunning to me how much negativity I've seen on Twitter and. [TS]

  Like Marco I'm trying to evaluate where. Does that fit in my life. Because I don't want to eliminate it entirely. [TS]

  But I think I'm giving it much more time and too many thought cycles. And I need to back it off a bit but I'm not sure. [TS]

  The right way to do it and like Marco. I'm a freakin addict which is not to I don't say that with pride. [TS]

  I wish I was less so but it is it is unbelievably thrilling to get responses from people that you respect. [TS]

  Or even strangers that have good information like the big frames that friends whatever you call it seems come a fat. [TS]

  Frame. Fine See now I'm totally to rails myself. But. But you know one way or another. [TS]

  There's good things that come from Twitter [TS]

  but there's also so much bad I can't figure out is the bad outweighing the good these days for me anyway. [TS]

  What Margo is doing like he's doing all the all the logical things that you would think to do trim your fall as you [TS]

  people try to cut down and [TS]

  when you do it don't be a completionist like he's going through he's going down the punch list of things you can do to [TS]

  manage this. On some are on the punch list for certain people maybe think your way out of it. [TS]

  Most people that doesn't work like a little bit Katie It sounds like you're trying to think your way out of it like [TS]

  should I be upset intellectually can I can I rationally think about that I shouldn't be bothered by with strangers that [TS]

  like. [TS]

  I don't know if you can have that conversation with yourself [TS]

  and have it have affected my experience it is very rare that people can. [TS]

  Can use reason to change their motions they feel from input from other people [TS]

  but some people can't so it's worth least giving that a try. But you know. [TS]

  And caring to follow us I think is probably the first thing you should be as you said like you know what is Twitter [TS]

  upset about today as Mark pointed out Twitter is who you follow like What is Twitter upset about you have no idea what [TS]

  terrorism said about Twitter as an aggregate is probably talking about Justin Bieber. [TS]

  That is not in your head you know I mean. [TS]

  Your Twitter is upset about some apple thing that nobody knows about except you know so. [TS]

  Changing your Follistim it can be painful because even for all the symmetry [TS]

  and Twitter can be painful to on follow people who you know you may agree with them [TS]

  and you maybe it is part of the reason you would involve them like their outrage about Issue X. [TS]

  You one hundred percent agree with them but if you X. [TS]

  and You are also outrage an outrage of the negative feeling so you're on following them not because they're posting [TS]

  things you disagree with but because they're prosecuting you agree with your like now I too am outraged. [TS]

  You have transferred your outrage to me. Because we agree on everything. [TS]

  Therefore I'm going to on follow you like you're not I'm following people because their their pinions are the opposite [TS]

  of yours you're in following people who you agree with. [TS]

  But who came to be angry all the time that's rubbing off on you know well [TS]

  and there's also you know to me I feel like there's there's a big difference. [TS]

  With with Twitter [TS]

  and a lot of it comes from from the blog world to which is that with Twitter there's a very very you know. [TS]

  It is who you follow that's like you know what you see in your timeline but there's still the big problem with. [TS]

  With all of the. [TS]

  You know replies from jerks and everything [TS]

  and you know a few weeks ago I mentioned how you know I I feel more comfortable saying things in pod casts that I do. [TS]

  On the on my blog things that might be controversial it might get people to call me a jerk or whatever. [TS]

  And the reason why is because in in blogs [TS]

  and on Twitter it's really really easy to get drive by rash reactions from people and. So when. [TS]

  And this is you know that anger that you see that you see like bubbling up on Twitter that's directed at something [TS]

  that's a mood. It's this drive by mood where someone sees a few words or headline. They disagree with. [TS]

  And they fit into their narrative with their confirmation bias of. [TS]

  Whatever they think those people are like or whatever and and. They just lash out and yell immediately. They. [TS]

  They don't look at context. They don't know that people are talking to they. It's just a quick. You know. [TS]

  Harsh reaction. With pod cast. You don't really get a lot of that. [TS]

  Because pod cast are so undiscoverable fundamentally by the. By the format mostly. [TS]

  And I know there's you know there's ways we can improve it [TS]

  but ultimately the format is just pretty undiscoverable compared to text. [TS]

  And I think it always will be that way relatively speaking. [TS]

  You know with the exception of minor improvements here and there but with pod cast like most people who are hearing. [TS]

  What I'm saying right now. Our subscriber to the show and who here on a regular basis. Who hear the three of us. [TS]

  Talking for a couple hours every week. And who have probably heard us for a couple hours every week for a long time. [TS]

  So they like you listeners who are hearing me say this. You know us. [TS]

  Like the vast majority of you know us on some level. You know the context. [TS]

  You know the kind of people we are you know roughly. You know the the. [TS]

  The context in which we are saying the things we say in which we think the things we think you know. [TS]

  You know if we say something it's little bit off. [TS]

  You probably give us the benefit of the doubt because you know who we actually are. [TS]

  And so there are I think there are way fewer of those drive by nasty interactions. [TS]

  For things you say on pod casts than there are for things you say on Twitter on blog posts. [TS]

  And for me and the result is pod cast audiences tend to be much smaller than popular blogs popular. You know. Tweets. [TS]

  Accounts or whatever. You Tube channels that are a little more accessible to this kind of drive by ness. [TS]

  Like podcast audiences are way smaller. But I can't so much less nastiness per capita in pod cast. Than I do. [TS]

  From any other audience by a long shot [TS]

  and I'll say things on here that are potentially way riskier to say than I would ever say on my blog. And yet. [TS]

  I get almost no crap for it. [TS]

  It's just too much work to listen to Obama anyone ever ever someone starts retreating you're treated around you'll get [TS]

  all the crazy drive bys for people who have no idea who you are in Iran your [TS]

  but it is just so much work so I got to download a baby audial file and then listen to audio [TS]

  and they don't know overcast exists so that on no I don't know podcast finds there's that on they can listen faster AND [TS]

  IT'S LIKE WHERE IS THE PART WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT THIS HOUR never mind where anyone can read a tweet to second to get [TS]

  angry so exactly Ed is not not environ even a blog post like [TS]

  when you know that going to your blog post goes viral likes on C.N.N. [TS]

  See it whatever like you're just going to drive by's for for half a year just because of that one thing. [TS]

  Right I mean here. Here's like. I would love. I would absolutely love. If Twitter had a setting. [TS]

  That would not show me mentions from people who didn't follow me for more than the past week. Think about that. [TS]

  Yeah there's a lot Twitter can do for that [TS]

  but that does actually get into the doesn't actually get into the realm of features that would only benefit the people [TS]

  who have a larger than normal number of followers but they are you have those features. [TS]

  Verified accounts have a setting where you can only see positive people from people you follow. [TS]

  Right now the and that's too aggressive Yeah like because then. Then you can hear from strangers. [TS]

  Right so that's that's too extreme but if you look at the trash that you get. If you look at the nastiness. [TS]

  The nasty comments from people on Twitter. The vast majority of them for me. Are from people who don't follow me. [TS]

  Because they saw summary tweet somewhere or something then they're like God they lash out and they yell [TS]

  and they get nastier when their eggs [TS]

  and they're going to talking to the whole thing like you know what we don't usually get the eggs that we just get we [TS]

  get to drive by the people who have established Twitter accounts and I just talk with their [TS]

  and their circle me talk in our circle in our sort of don't interact with some little thing from our circle lands over [TS]

  in their circle and they've all just come back and you know [TS]

  but the good thing about them is for the most part you'll never see them again. [TS]

  Like they most of them all to make it their mission in life to make your life miserable. [TS]

  Like it's not my one of them they have the video of like the woman being catcalled on the street. [TS]

  And I made one or two tweets about it and they somehow came. Leaked out of our circle because some right wing. [TS]

  Site put up. [TS]

  You know one of my tweets on their page and was just you know it was like months [TS]

  and months of random fairly aggressive hate. From just from people who are totally outside. [TS]

  Circles who have no idea anything about who I am or that I have a podcast [TS]

  or like I'm just a person did you know I mean like. And it's just that was miserable. It was like I think I said. [TS]

  I tweeted about. It was like you know. Five mil a sucky is eons worth of of hate right. [TS]

  But it just goes on but it just goes on forever. Like and eventually you know. [TS]

  I mean I deal with things in a different way probably than than you do but like it was. It was miserable and. [TS]

  And it was like a rainstorm it doesn't end like you know I don't know what your see N.B.C. Story you know Apple. [TS]

  Functional high ground stuff is going I'm assuming you're still getting those. [TS]

  But I'm hoping they're not as hate filled as as the things I was getting for this thing and. At the very least. [TS]

  Anyone is going to be angry about functional highground probably cares about Apple. Right. [TS]

  And so if they're somewhere in your circle in that respect you may not get rid of them but just get. [TS]

  When I was getting the random hate from strangers. It helped that I knew these people didn't know anything about me. [TS]

  It helped that I knew that I was never going to see these people on Twitter again. [TS]

  Right it helped that it was so outside of the normal things I tweet about. [TS]

  Unlike your functional highground things because you're just you're like cultivating the worst of your actual audience [TS]

  like people who care a lot about Apple or any real anger about you for saying stuff about Apple. [TS]

  Like the you know if you say something wrong I was but I'm saying is I was able to deal with it by saying [TS]

  but by thinking to myself. I'm never going to see any of these people to me again. [TS]

  It's probably not even worth my time to block them. Because like. If I just simply don't engage one of them. [TS]

  They'll get it out of their system. They don't know who I am. You know and it just it and it will blow over. [TS]

  In two to three months. And it did more last I haven't got one of those in a long time. [TS]

  And that was the way I dealt with that one. But you know. [TS]

  Having to deal with that one to three months like going off Twitter would be another way to deal with that one. [TS]

  I just say I'm going to come back from Twitter into three months when this is blown over. Right. [TS]

  And you know years have to do whatever it takes for you to feel OK and. [TS]

  These unfortunate flare ups can happen to anybody. [TS]

  Like and again I would say again this is not a thing oh poor you got too many followers. Anybody's tweet. [TS]

  It's not because I have a lot of followers. Anybody's tweet. Can be pulled out and put into the right place. [TS]

  Unlike you know. Some website or forum or Bolton board. [TS]

  That has an organized presidents that disagrees with whatever it is that you are passionate about that can happen to [TS]

  anybody because on the page I was under was there was just the other people. [TS]

  You know some of those people had ten followers right. [TS]

  They were going to get the same exact volume of hate mail that I was going to get because nobody who's sending hate [TS]

  tweets those people. [TS]

  Knows who they are they just saw their tweets on a page became enraged [TS]

  and funneled that rage into sending hate in their direction. [TS]

  It could happen to anybody that's the beauty of the Internet. You know if the Huffington Post. [TS]

  Grabs your tweet and puts it up and you get you could get angry hate filled e-mail from people for months. [TS]

  And you could have ten followers. Like this just. That is the beauty and curse of our age I guess. [TS]

  And so I really think that everyone has will eventually have to. [TS]

  Find their way of dealing with the situation and learning what their limits are [TS]

  and I think what Casey was talking away for of like not lying to yourself about what your limits are not thinking [TS]

  because it shouldn't bother me. [TS]

  Therefore I will continue to do the thing that I know bothers me because I intellectually believe that it shouldn't [TS]

  bother me that's probably not. Probably not a healthy. Coping Mechanism. [TS]

  Yeah that's what I've been attempting [TS]

  and failing at just like Casey's like I've been I've been feeling miserably at that for years now and like that [TS]

  and I mean I think. I think for me feels when solution is going to be reducing how much I used Twitter. [TS]

  Because Twitter is not going to change Twitter is as a medium like that setting I just said you know they're not no [TS]

  client is ever going to add that really like. They probably don't even allowed to anymore. [TS]

  Like what the new Twitter rules of the road. Would have to be a Twitter service things like you know. [TS]

  Do the type of features that Twitter as a service can do and maybe they could think about that [TS]

  but the fact that verified is still this rare thing that not everybody can get shows they really have no idea what the [TS]

  hell they're doing in terms of making a pleasant place. [TS]

  Exactly and it just seems like the leadership of Twitter has no interest from a product direction perspective. [TS]

  In doing much about these principles and sometimes some of them are not problems that Twitter really can solve. [TS]

  You know [TS]

  and I recognize that So for me this is why I really like the direction I'm going to really try to go now is just taking [TS]

  a lot of my usage that is currently on Twitter. And just taking a private. [TS]

  Because I being in public for everything I do is just not working. It's just not. Yeah it's funny because as. [TS]

  Because I have the show on relay. Because I have analog on real I. [TS]

  I've been a part of the relay Af-Am slack channel and That. Has a really awesome group of people in it. [TS]

  And I feel like that's kind of feeling. Not filling a void necessarily but it's. [TS]

  I'm getting more positive experiences from that in fact they're pretty much universally positive. [TS]

  And I've been a lot of the little quips that I may throw into Twitter. [TS]

  A lot of times I'll just share with my my close friends on the relay chat or slack. Because I know. Reliably. [TS]

  That they will understand where I'm coming from get my intention and get what I'm trying to say. Even if or. [TS]

  You know maybe I'm just whining about so. The only secretly you write in I'm OK with that. [TS]

  I'm OK with them secretly hating me because this way I don't have to know that they but all kidding aside I wonder if. [TS]

  If I sway. Let's say the pendulum swings just all the way over to the real A.F.M. Slack and. [TS]

  I almost completely stop using Twitter. I think at that point though. [TS]

  I'll miss some of the random interactions all mishearing about fat. [TS]

  Frames [TS]

  and all mishearing about his hearing about as hearing things from people that I don't know because genuinely as much as [TS]

  we're complaining and men moaning or sharing if nothing else. Our experiences with Twitter. [TS]

  I both of you have said [TS]

  and I can't agree more that some unbelievably wonderful wonderful things happen on Twitter with random people. [TS]

  And some of the some people have sent hundred forty character messages to me that are just heart crushingly awesome in [TS]

  the best possible way. [TS]

  And so because of that I don't think I necessarily want to give up on Twitter [TS]

  and I'm not saying either of you are saying it either but I worry that if I get into this echo chamber in the slack. [TS]

  Chat. [TS]

  That maybe I'll miss out on some of the contrarian opinions that if I'm honest I'm probably not getting on Twitter [TS]

  anyway. But I like to think I'm getting on Twitter. That's why it's. [TS]

  It's a balance right it's a bounce we all need to find and. [TS]

  I think right now we've in the last few years that the rise of all the social stuff and mobiles the. [TS]

  I think we got a little too far in the everything is public on social networks direction. [TS]

  And now I think we're going to start swinging back a little bit hopefully on a pendulum. [TS]

  With like OK not everything needs to be public all the time. [TS]

  And we're actually and being private can actually be quite peaceful [TS]

  and a relief from always being in public all the time. [TS]

  Now there's a gap in the model lineup so to speak I'm back to the a MacBook type analogy where you EVER we all have [TS]

  privacy all of our message text messages instant message. [TS]

  One on one or one on you know if a small circle of people right. [TS]

  Is that that is a public thing over there on Twitter right. And then the in between thing is this. [TS]

  And I think there's a reason the imagery thing is a big gap to get things like slacker glass board [TS]

  or like a small group of people are going to I receive channel a small group of people who are who know each other that [TS]

  because you don't want to talk one on one with all your individual friends you do on a place that's in between with you [TS]

  want to talk one on one you're just send people text messages or instant message like. [TS]

  That's fine a solved problem but sometimes you want to talk to two or three or four be in a room [TS]

  or be even be some places because all with like a whole bunch of people right. [TS]

  But it's still not public the difference gene. You know. Even if you were talking to everybody W.C. [TS]

  That's only a few thousand people. It's not the entire world of. You know whatever to seven billion. [TS]

  So why is there that gap there [TS]

  and I think one of the reasons that gap is there is we used to have before we had the big public things. [TS]

  All we had where the little places we had private. Which would be like one to one email or instant message. [TS]

  And then we had self constructed small social groups. [TS]

  Isolated by obscurity like a bunch of people on you know the global gross Island where you have the full measure [TS]

  ecosystem or be like one Usenet group up in a corner. That with like two hundred regulars. [TS]

  And that makes a low community there. And technically and. [TS]

  It's in public but it's protected by the fact that Google doesn't exist yet. [TS]

  And there's no way for people to find you [TS]

  and it's you know it's like you're hiding on your little island till the book show up right. [TS]

  And you even things like slack or whatever you end up with these little islands and I remember those days [TS]

  and what happened in those days was you ended up with too many islands. [TS]

  Here's where I go to talk about people at Star Wars here's where I go to Talk Talk to people about computer stuff here [TS]

  is where I talk to my family [TS]

  and was like they were these little private islands at the scale the market was looking for [TS]

  but you ended up with fifty of them you're like geez I don't like having to go to all the different protocols all these [TS]

  different places and sometimes I want to cross-pollinate and I got a check. You know five different places for it. [TS]

  What happens is either. [TS]

  Those little places die out or those little places sort of metastasize and become Twitter essentially like. [TS]

  That is the life cycle of those places. Things of that scale in their. Just like fizzle. [TS]

  And die out [TS]

  or become like this too many of that you can't go to all the ones like the reason you are going back to APT not net [TS]

  even those like seven people there we know it just doesn't have critical mass or. They grow. [TS]

  But they starts like well why doesn't everybody on usenet now why isn't everybody on a well it's a message from what [TS]

  you know like. [TS]

  Why isn't everybody in a slack room the some people I wish when it's like them who weren't but the people us [TS]

  when those like him are different the set of people the other person thinks are in it which is [TS]

  when a black woman eventually everybody you fall into one of those Akron you just recreated twitterings I just lack [TS]

  room. Right. It's true it's true that in comfortable middle part as like. [TS]

  It's I think it's very difficult things to live in the middle part because they always move in one direction [TS]

  or another it's very difficult to find status there [TS]

  and less you have a very narrow focus I think people find that faces of Facebook even the Facebook is basically public. [TS]

  Because they have the same of protection of obscurity. [TS]

  And because they have one axis they just want to talk to their family and friends. [TS]

  Maybe it's two axes [TS]

  but it's not like it's problem of you know want to say where the people I talk about fixing up my car. [TS]

  Where the people on talk about metalworking where the people I want to talk about the sports team where the people on a [TS]

  talk about sports team and then you end up with these little islands again if you try to do it all at once [TS]

  and you just end up with Twitter and it's. [TS]

  It is a difficult balance talking to all these people who you don't you never see who live all over the world. [TS]

  I couldn't agree with you more and the funny thing is I have now dedicated one of the spaces on my work machine. To be. [TS]

  My like communication pain and accepting Twitter. I have Slack. I have in like the upper left hand corner I have I.R.C. [TS]

  In the upper right hand corner. I have. I message in. [TS]

  I am in the in the lower right hand corner and I have hip chat for work in the lower left hand corner. [TS]

  So I have four panes on the screen at once that are the four different places that I know that I have real time [TS]

  communication. And then on top of that is Twitter and on top of that is email and. [TS]

  I already am feeling a bit of exhaustion but I'd much rather have. Tiredness. Then the sadness that. [TS]

  I wonder if I'm getting more than happiness from Twitter. [TS]

  At least you don't have a web forums [TS]

  and Usenet right so you're a little bit I remember I remember Baghlan days where most of my communities of this size. [TS]

  Were Web bulletin boards like as Usenet has gone away. And the big web hadn't come. [TS]

  And there were web olden boards that ever just cycle her and check all of them were little communities in each one and. [TS]

  I don't think that was much better in fact. Like I find Twitter. Freeing. [TS]

  Because if you're in a web old embarking any or even a slack channel and someone's being a jerk you can't. [TS]

  An follow them [TS]

  or you couldn't back in today anyway like there was no equivalent of like I don't want to see what they have to say [TS]

  again. Right. [TS]

  You know because other people reply to them [TS]

  and use their replies like Twitter has helped in that regard both by keeping their volume down.. [TS]

  Because they can only focus too much M. [TS]

  And by sort of letting you try to trace the outlines of your own little island by curating your fall this. [TS]

  To give yourself a fighting chance whereas the you know if it for example in your slack thing a bunch of people were [TS]

  invited in who didn't like who didn't like you. [TS]

  You can't participate in that slack room [TS]

  and drive away anyway the tools are there for you to do it it becomes dead do you have to just leave whereas if a bunch [TS]

  of people come on Twitter and up not just you. [TS]

  You can start becoming a doctor if you can either on follow them or block them [TS]

  and still have the conversation with the people that you like. So you know. I think things are better. [TS]

  Now in the sense that the big public one is actually a viable enough to fool us all into thinking like oh I don't need [TS]

  that in between one anymore the big public want to find for a long time that kind of worked out. [TS]

  That's how good the big public one is now compared to what I was before [TS]

  but we definitely do need those middle sized awhile [TS]

  and serve connections I just don't know the solution to getting a set of those that is stable and satisfactory that. [TS]

  Don't you disappear or become big things. You know. [TS]

  Oh see it happens but it's interesting it's an interesting conversation and I love [TS]

  when we get a little touchy feely on the show. [TS]

  No one just stealing yelling analogs I know I'm Mike is going to be so low [TS]

  and three zero I want to give you a couple more. [TS]

  I don't know if they count as tips [TS]

  but think things that I've been doing to try to help manage deck to it try to Twitter Twitter negative they. [TS]

  Yet may or may not work for you but. [TS]

  One of the things is like you know we talk about people don't give us the benefit of doubt [TS]

  and assume the worst about us [TS]

  and everything's it goes both ways we do the same thing about them like because because it's like you know it's my [TS]

  smileys are invented because ten. [TS]

  Medium [TS]

  and someone set type something like you know what the kids well you typed OK with a period that means you're angry [TS]

  right. It's very different to misread what people are saying. And in the same way to do so a very often. [TS]

  Someone will come at me with something that I think that is aggressive. [TS]

  And I will do something to try to determine whether they were intentionally aggressive or whether they were trying [TS]

  and failing to make a joke because that's the whole thing like Mark was saying that people listen to us [TS]

  and they know us and I feel like they're familiar in the same way that we can say things to each other that you know. [TS]

  We take for granted that the mean things we say to each other are jokes. Right. [TS]

  And so at the very least that gives us a leg up on thing does he really think that you're like Well now it's obviously [TS]

  meant as a joke but [TS]

  when strangers do it they think they know us we have no idea who they are totally read the naked aggression to us [TS]

  and so I will reply to them in a way that will. [TS]

  That will give them an opportunity to basically say in whatever so many words like. I didn't mean it that way. [TS]

  Or like to reveal themselves as being. [TS]

  It was an attempt a good natured joshing and they're actually a fan they were trying to be nice [TS]

  and I felt like trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially if they follow me because I am. [TS]

  Unlike you know. I'm our gress of my block in these days. [TS]

  But unlike Marcos policy I've not come to the point where I allers like so we block people [TS]

  and I feel really bad about blocking anybody who follows me. [TS]

  Again this is just my how I'm dealing with things [TS]

  but you would think like OK fine do that thing where you try to see if the given time for the doubt all you're going to [TS]

  do is just make them pissed off more and make yourself more miserable and I have to admit that does happen sometimes [TS]

  but what I have found is that the one [TS]

  or two times that I engage in someone in a way that lets them reveal the fact that that I should have given the better [TS]

  for the doubt the just like it was a joke that came off wrong or right or whatever. I feel better. Like that is a. [TS]

  That is a positive lift more than I think even if they just come out in the beginning [TS]

  and sent something nice like I feel that there's a positive lift that like. [TS]

  I was able to turn it around that what could have turned into a fight didn't turn into one [TS]

  and we came to an understanding that someone was misunderstood and that we worked it out. And that like that. [TS]

  It gives me faith in humanity that they're like that not everyone who I think is evil and mean is actually evil [TS]

  and mean sometimes they just make a mistake with what they type. You know. [TS]

  And it happens every once and it doesn't happen a lot I have to admit like not going to you know. They're not all good. [TS]

  Like. [TS]

  But the few times it does happen I think personally it gives me a lift to counteract like you know how like that the [TS]

  one bad comment is disproportionately weighing on you. The one good thing that happens. [TS]

  I find disproportionately lifts me. [TS]

  And I also think like you know the person Any other end of that feels better out as well maybe learn something about [TS]

  you know. Not being mean and the way I do that. Someone says they just saw me do this on Twitter today. [TS]

  The way I do this is probably doesn't look very nice because very often I do this by coming back at them directly to [TS]

  essentially give them a reply that looks very aggressive [TS]

  but it lets them know you said something that hurts my feelings and I don't even know who you are [TS]

  and maybe you didn't mean to do that and if they are actually mean. I've done a comeback like. [TS]

  You know I've come back at them in the typical way the yard with somebody. But if it's there. [TS]

  If they didn't mean to be mean like. [TS]

  I found rather than trying to engage them and say Did you really mean that are valid law. [TS]

  If I come back at them in a way that would make a good person feel shame. [TS]

  They will feel shame and come back when I think I come back of them in a way they would make a good feel. [TS]

  Person feel shame. And there they are did intend to hurt my feelings. [TS]

  Then I still feel like I'm made an aggressive counter and I just walk in the move and right. [TS]

  I don't know if that's going to help [TS]

  but you guys I don't know if it's ever happened to you like you've turned someone around [TS]

  or like you I mean we kind of had it with like. [TS]

  You know someone in a chat room who was sent us an angry email me talk about it [TS]

  and like you know kind of work things out and turn things around write that positive outcome. [TS]

  Lifts my estimation of humanity and you can turn a bad day into a good one. [TS]

  I don't know if you guys want to take that chance it's certainly a lot of work [TS]

  but I found that that does help me feel better about the whole thing. Yeah. You know it's. [TS]

  That's another thing I'm working on in that. [TS]

  Sometimes I'll try to reply with an equal amount what I feel is in equal amounts of snark. [TS]

  For exactly the same reason John. So for example the person who had tweeted to me. [TS]

  You know you're being ridiculous keep track of your cards. My reply to that person was. [TS]

  It was an honest mistake you're being ridiculous. Which. I'm not saying I'm necessarily proud of that. [TS]

  But my thought was I have replied in kind. [TS]

  And the thing that that bums me out about it though is that walking back on it. [TS]

  I don't think I feel good about that reply. And it. [TS]

  And it's tough because it bothered me enough that I felt like I wanted them to this person to know that I am bothered. [TS]

  But I don't know that I've gotten enough relief from replying in a snarky way either does [TS]

  but I don't think you let them know that you're upset that I think you just came back to them the regulators argument [TS]

  like the. The one from today I can remember it was but someone. Some was you know. [TS]

  Complaining about my pronunciation America which happens all time. [TS]

  So I like that's that's fine and you can do that in a funny way. Or you can do that in a mean way. Right. [TS]

  And this person did it in sort of a mean condescending way. Right. But as far as I knew they could have been in there. [TS]

  In their mind and could have been exactly the same feelings all of the people who like you know. [TS]

  Do it in the silly way. [TS]

  Right that we do it to each other until I get it's a running gag on the show right [TS]

  but if someone misfires an attempt at humor you can come off seeming really mean. [TS]

  Rather than thinking that person is really mean and getting down about it. [TS]

  What I came back with them was like you know. Using a similar like echo of their comments of like. [TS]

  You know I told him basically like they're being condescending. [TS]

  They're suddenly like how hard is it not to say the word Mariella like you know like. [TS]

  It's a subtle difference in phrasing of just you know. [TS]

  You pronounce it or weird way blah blah blah are making a joke or just saying. [TS]

  I roll How hard is it to pronounce this work right. [TS]

  And depending on your mood and I was in a not a particular good mood that part of like really going to call me [TS]

  and say How hard is it different like. [TS]

  There are ways to phrase that that are not quite as mean it wasn't mean it's not that mean [TS]

  but I was just it annoyed me so I said. How hard is it not to be condescending to strangers on Twitter. [TS]

  Which emphasize a couple things One that I don't even know you that you are essential like Marco said walking by my [TS]

  porch thing we have a conversation not even because like for a podcast or who knows when. [TS]

  And just yelling at me that you're disappointed that like. [TS]

  How hard is it to do this thing I find so easy you're a terrible person right. [TS]

  And my thing comes back at them it's like it is kind of a comeback. Right. But it's also emphasizes the fact that. [TS]

  What were you just doing there. You were being condescending to someone you don't even know on Twitter we have no. [TS]

  We have never met I don't know who you are I don't even know what you're referring to [TS]

  and your opening salvos to be condescending to me about how I pronounce something right. [TS]

  And the person came back and I forgot what their reply was but it was like. [TS]

  It was acknowledgement that that's really not how they meant to come across [TS]

  and they're just like greatest artist funny how is pronounced a reverend then I explain to them there was a regional [TS]

  accent and lovely whatever like you know. It is has effectively a positive result. [TS]

  But the important point was to like communicate to that like make them realize how their actions look from my [TS]

  perspective. I don't know if you saying that like. You know that you said about the expiring credit card let them. [TS]

  Really what really communicated to them how you were feeling about or what it looks like. [TS]

  From your perspective but like I said sometimes is you know. I think the percentage of this work is really low. [TS]

  Like it and most of the time I don't do anything and I just ignore it and move on [TS]

  but every once in a while I make a go at that. [TS]

  And I'm just so happy and pleasantly surprised that it makes me feel better when it actually does work and someone. [TS]

  And what could have been a conflict trying to do not a conflict. Now to know I just feel like in retrospect that. [TS]

  Maybe the the right answer. [TS]

  I guess the reason I tweeted in in replied was because I wanted some amount of closure and [TS]

  but in retrospect the closer I got was not the closure I wanted. [TS]

  Because if I just ignored it would it even at the back of my head. Like all day long. [TS]

  It was a person such a jerk What if I ever do to bother them it was an honest freakin mistake why they so upset. [TS]

  And so that's why I replied because the did get it out of my head but I am not getting the relief [TS]

  and satisfaction from. From my tweet that. That I wanted. And that's probably it's certainly on me. [TS]

  I mean I could have said something differently here. [TS]

  Like you're saying John I could have handled it differently but I don't know. [TS]

  It's just it's stuff like that like this little one shot thing that really in the grand scheme of things is not a big [TS]

  deal. But you get it constantly. And it when he's on you. [TS]

  I mean I telling you things you already know it's just it's constant I feel [TS]

  and all more confident than ever used to be and I think that's all in large part because I have more of an audience [TS]

  and I never used to have. But I don't know it's just it's tough it's been tough for me to deal with and. [TS]

  And we're very lucky that we're receiving any sort of feedback at all and we're not just shouting into the abyss [TS]

  but sometimes the echo you get back is not the echo you want. [TS]