00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is connected episode 550 today's show is brought to you by turbulence forecast i'm your annual chairman federico vittici and it's my pleasure to introduce to the show mr stephen hackett hello stephen hello did you know 550 in roman numerals is dl yeah makes sense connected uh episode dl keep it on the down low
00:00:29 ◼ ► keep it on the down low uh yes i'm stephen hackett hello federico and we are joined by our keynote chairman
00:00:44 ◼ ► i've forgotten what chairman i was you know so i i've got a i've got to compete in a few weeks time
00:00:59 ◼ ► it's not as close as i think it is because i keep telling i keep doing things that suggest that the
00:01:05 ◼ ► next month on the calendar is june but it but it's not so it's close but to me it's it's further away
00:01:12 ◼ ► than i think it is which is nice but it is it's coming up it's coming up real soon i i'm getting
00:01:18 ◼ ► excited to be honest i i'm excited for wwc this year i don't know how you two are feeling but i'm
00:01:22 ◼ ► i'm looking forward to i'm excited about a redesign in the sense of like the user perspective but i was
00:01:28 ◼ ► on the phone early with underscore i was like from that perspective real scared terrible yeah this is
00:01:35 ◼ ► this this could be a real uh yeah this could be like this would be when did you start working with
00:01:46 ◼ ► end of 23 beginning of 24 so this would be potentially the first like big big summer because
00:01:53 ◼ ► 20 last year was big right yeah 23 was big everywhere and then last year like we did a bunch
00:02:01 ◼ ► of stuff in widget smith but it wasn't like apple had drastic changes for us but this year could be like
00:02:08 ◼ ► we have to look at every single screen and all these apps i look forward to to that version of
00:02:15 ◼ ► steven for june to september of this year i'm excited for him yeah uh follow up follow up this was one of
00:02:26 ◼ ► those things where i opened the feedback form and like i love you all there were so many people who
00:02:30 ◼ ► sent the same thing which was awesome i'm quoting i'm quoting julian because julian was first okay
00:02:36 ◼ ► we were talking about the macro mode in the ios camera on the phone and how you don't like how it
00:02:46 ◼ ► deals with the second lens yes yeah it switches to to it switches too aggressively for me yes you want
00:02:54 ◼ ► a gentle switching and so we had talked about like oh you go into settings not a setting for it so
00:03:01 ◼ ► this is one of those things where i honestly think apple really should spend some time like just
00:03:07 ◼ ► looking at their settings for things because this is a little confusing so if you go into settings
00:03:15 ◼ ► camera preserve settings which is a terrible name but what it is what preserve settings means is if you
00:03:25 ◼ ► change something in the camera app it will stay that way yep so camera preserve settings macro control
00:03:33 ◼ ► after you do whatever you want in the macro mode in the camera app and so if you have it off it will
00:03:41 ◼ ► stay off it won't automatically switch this is the perfect thing yes hilariously the first person to tell me
00:03:48 ◼ ► about this was a screenshot that my wife sent me from a conversation that she was having with a friend on
00:03:56 ◼ ► instagram who said tell mike this it was a very confusing incredible screenshot that's one way to send feedback
00:04:15 ◼ ► okay if everyone could just send feedback to my wife don't do that don't do that to her she'll get it to me
00:04:22 ◼ ► no she's got things going on she's busy um but yeah so this is doing what i want which is now
00:04:29 ◼ ► that i keep you know you keep the the macro control thing on so you are able to enable it if you want to
00:04:37 ◼ ► but now it preserves my settings which is off so i have the little flower with the with the line through
00:04:44 ◼ ► it which means it's off whenever i'm using it take that nature yeah who cares nature's nature and now
00:04:51 ◼ ► it doesn't switch as often as the phone wants it to so i'm i'm very happy about this thank you to
00:04:56 ◼ ► everyone who solved this problem for us and apple you got to get it together on this one in my opinion
00:05:00 ◼ ► but what a poorly named thing preserve settings like aren't all settings preserved that's the point of
00:05:05 ◼ ► them yeah i i agree with you that it's weird it's weird where it's also weird but i do like that that
00:05:11 ◼ ► that this exists though that i use i have used it in the past for some other stuff too the preserve
00:05:17 ◼ ► settings thing like it is pretty it's a good thing to have for the camera specifically that like
00:05:23 ◼ ► there are things that you do in the camera app that might just be what you're doing this time
00:05:29 ◼ ► but there are things you might want to do that you want to be the same every time like maybe you want
00:05:34 ◼ ► live photos off all the time exactly like that rather than just turning them off in this one instance
00:05:37 ◼ ► so it's a good thing that it exists it's always funny when you find these things in apple settings
00:05:43 ◼ ► where it's like oh you actually have a weird granular settings like just in this one place how much of a
00:05:50 ◼ ► fight was that for the camera team right you know yeah and i get it the camera is really complicated
00:05:56 ◼ ► and it can do a lot of things and i'm glad that those settings are there because like some people
00:06:01 ◼ ► really you know i never want to shoot outside the frame or whatever that thing was years ago
00:06:06 ◼ ► but i think it could be i just my point is i think it just be clarified a little bit i'm glad that
00:06:11 ◼ ► they're there the iphone camera app is almost like its own operating system it is it is so incredibly
00:06:19 ◼ ► complicated in there right like across the like 12 different shooting modes and then all of the
00:06:25 ◼ ► different features that you can have within them do you remember cinematic mode i do so yeah it's all
00:06:31 ◼ ► there for you if you want it okay moving along martin wrote in to me uh i mentioned my unify cameras and
00:06:41 ◼ ► we are going to do a whole ubiquity unify episode of mac power users later in the year but um for now
00:06:48 ◼ ► martin asks do your unify cameras natives natively support the apple home app if not are you just using
00:06:55 ◼ ► the unify app to view and control uh so they do not support the apple home app by default you could
00:07:01 ◼ ► probably someone emailed me as like you could pipe them in through like home assistant or something i
00:07:07 ◼ ► don't necessarily i actually don't want my cameras in the home app because i i don't like what was that
00:07:12 ◼ ► noise mike what was that noise sorry was that out loud no you said you said the home assistant you're
00:07:19 ◼ ► like i just i can't like i i find it i hate i hate home assistant and all those things i know
00:07:26 ◼ ► people love them and i know it just it's just so complicated like i had home bridge set up once
00:07:30 ◼ ► and then the home bridge server the clock changed and everything broke and i couldn't log into the
00:07:36 ◼ ► server anymore because the clock broke and i don't know how the clock could break but it did and then
00:07:42 ◼ ► that was the end of it and it was there was no more home bridge for me so yeah that i only have one
00:07:47 ◼ ► thing in home bridge now uh when i was using ring stuff i had more in there uh but to answer martin's
00:07:54 ◼ ► question i use the unify app so they have a camera app and it is every bit as good as ring or nest or
00:08:03 ◼ ► any other you know sort of consumer camera app that you've ever used but what i really like about it is
00:08:10 ◼ ► you have nearly endless customization when it comes to notifications and so say that you want
00:08:18 ◼ ► to be notified only if a car is in your driveway but not a person like because it can do basic object
00:08:24 ◼ ► recognition and i i don't have this set up on mine but you can do facial recognition like oh if it's my
00:08:29 ◼ ► wife approaching the phone front door don't send me a notification but if it's a stranger let me know
00:08:35 ◼ ► like you can really dive into that and so i'm using they call it protect it's the protect app and i've
00:08:42 ◼ ► been very happy with it and uh it's uh it's been great unify make a camera called ai turret which i just
00:08:49 ◼ ► think is like a bad that's a terrible name yeah that's just a friendly name the ai turret that's
00:08:57 ◼ ► just gonna look at you you know yeah i mean you know looking at their whole thing right they're all
00:09:02 ◼ ► of their imagery it all looks like portal everything's like lit up like g5 pro with vision enhancer looks
00:09:09 ◼ ► like the the ai turret sounds like the name of a product that the guy who's like uh like who deals
00:09:16 ◼ ► weapons and is now also making a game boy would make you know you know the guy i'm a lucky yeah
00:09:22 ◼ ► yeah it sounds like a polymer lucky product ai turret can i can i make a uh can i can i say something
00:09:29 ◼ ► on on the show which is a safe space oh boy sure jim get ready someone someone reached out to me and
00:09:35 ◼ ► they were like hey would you like this cool game boy that we're making yeah and i was like sure like
00:09:40 ◼ ► i'll take one of those and so i got someone and then like two weeks later i was like oh no
00:09:44 ◼ ► is it headlines i was like oh no i'll never talk about it uh i'll never talk about it uh but i
00:09:51 ◼ ► didn't know disclosure disclosure i just they sent me the game boy and it's it's really nice but like
00:09:57 ◼ ► it's it's really complicated because like not great you know what i mean poor mike just wanted a game
00:10:03 ◼ ► boy mike just make a game boy why have you got to do everything else uh is is how i feel
00:10:08 ◼ ► couldn't you just make a game boy instead of you know dealing weapons just make it just choose you
00:10:15 ◼ ► know stay in your lane that is the biggest stay in your lane right like i mean look it's a spectrum
00:10:24 ◼ ► all right on one hand on one end there's a game boy and on the other there's be a weapons dealer
00:10:36 ◼ ► you know they just really dodged one on that one coming from a guy who makes a game boy with a
00:10:44 ◼ ► little weapon on the side you know it's made of like it's like heavy it's made of yeah it's apparently
00:10:51 ◼ ► like a really good game boy look i'll tell you i'm not telling you to buy one all right then it's
00:10:57 ◼ ► called i'm just no point high it's called the mod retro right like that's the thing i'm not telling
00:11:01 ◼ ► people to buy one but i will say is a really nice piece of equipment uh but you know disclaimer you
00:11:11 ◼ ► know disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer i'm not even gonna put this link in the show notes because like
00:11:17 ◼ ► people will see it and be like oh but like i feel like i've i've made myself really clear at this
00:11:22 ◼ ► point they're uh they're all sold out at the moment okay i think it was very popular look at
00:11:28 ◼ ► these colors yeah it's an it's a very nice piece of piece of hardware i'm sorry but i gotta i gotta i
00:11:35 ◼ ► gotta shout out this comment in discord zoe is saying uh hopefully amber nick won't get into
00:11:41 ◼ ► weapons now that's gonna tank npc yeah you thought tariffs were doing you in nope it's war crimes
00:11:50 ◼ ► oh you know you know you know amber nick if they get into weapons manufacturing they're gonna make
00:11:58 ◼ ► like 20 different models of the same gun and it's like it's like what's and they all come out a week
00:12:04 ◼ ► apart okay sorry enough with the weapons joke this is not this is not uh comedy material no it's not
00:12:14 ◼ ► we're there are beats in cars beats and cars daniel wrote in to say regarding beats branded products
00:12:20 ◼ ► my friends have a smart hashtag one that's the way you're supposed to say it apparently and it comes
00:12:27 ◼ ► with a beats branded audio system in their trim version there's a lowercase b in all of the speakers
00:12:32 ◼ ► there's also a sporty brabus trim of the car which has an uppercase b brabus all over the car in
00:12:38 ◼ ► addition to the lowercase b branding of beats uh there's a link in the show notes to the smart
00:12:44 ◼ ► hashtag one and you can see some pictures with uh the speakers with uh with the uh beats logo yeah
00:12:49 ◼ ► of them yeah who knew well i guess i guess somebody did this is one of those things where i feel like
00:12:58 ◼ ► not everybody knows you know we didn't but daniel did like like i feel like even like how old is
00:13:03 ◼ ► this car is it new like 2023 all right so this to me feels like just one of those things but like
00:13:09 ◼ ► there are people at apple that just don't know oh tim cook didn't know about this until tim did not
00:13:14 ◼ ► know until right now happen yeah this is just the thing that like nobody knows about yeah now they do
00:13:26 ◼ ► come on there's a little fox on the corner though it says comfort mode and there's a little fox
00:13:32 ◼ ► is that comfortable i don't know let me tell you a thing that's happened to me in my life
00:13:39 ◼ ► right so i was going outside a couple of days ago and all of a sudden huge if true yep i know huge all
00:13:48 ◼ ► of a sudden just flash of color and noise at the fence as i are so fox we have foxes sometimes in
00:13:56 ◼ ► our garden they're just hanging out the problem this time is it was actually a family of foxes
00:14:01 ◼ ► and there were two like two adult foxes they left but the fox cubs didn't they're just in the garden
00:14:11 ◼ ► now and they're not scared of me like the adult foxes are okay so we just got these little fox
00:14:17 ◼ ► cubs running around which is adorable they're called kits kits kits fantastic fantastic thank you for
00:14:24 ◼ ► letting me know about that but they're just these these uh this pair of kits while adorable chasing
00:14:30 ◼ ► each other absolutely destroyed this uh puny bush that adina has been cultivating for like nearly two
00:14:37 ◼ ► years like they ripped it straight out from the roots so she kind of replanted it again next day
00:14:43 ◼ ► ripped out again so these little kits they're uh they're destroying my garden that's a bummer uh
00:14:50 ◼ ► could you hear them like were they making noise let me tell you man i know the joke that you're making
00:14:56 ◼ ► foxes oh they make the worst noise like foxes sound like i think foxes when they're they're up to
00:15:04 ◼ ► something they sound like screaming humans it's horrific does it sound like some white guys in
00:15:11 ◼ ► the woods in a fox costume absolutely well it depends what they're doing what does the fox say
00:15:18 ◼ ► all right you just had to say it okay i was really trying you really took the wind out of my sails
00:15:24 ◼ ► yeah no i mean everyone got it as soon as you started yeah yeah you didn't need to get to the
00:15:33 ◼ ► uh mike yeah you are trying to improve yourself yep who isn't finally um oh wow and you
00:15:48 ◼ ► wow and you have uh asked us how we learn things uh yeah so all right here's here's one what is
00:15:55 ◼ ► happening spoiler spoiler we don't so let yourself this all right i'm honest for a minute i look up to
00:16:02 ◼ ► both of you as people that are very knowledgeable very knowledgeable and taller and taller that's why
00:16:09 ◼ ► you look up steven steven you wished all right uh federico i don't remember i am i am taller i am
00:16:17 ◼ ► slightly taller are you yeah yeah i'm the shortest okay yeah uh so i do look up to you both because
00:16:24 ◼ ► you're taller than me uh but you're you're both very knowledgeable and you're both i think very good
00:16:29 ◼ ► at learning so like if there's something that you're interested in you are very good at learning
00:16:35 ◼ ► more about it and this is something that i want to get better at that like learning new things and
00:16:43 ◼ ► then having better tools in place to if i find an interest in something to like deep dive on it so i
00:16:51 ◼ ► am curious for you both to talk about like where do you find kind of like inspiration to look into
00:16:59 ◼ ► something new and then when you do how do you know where to go what do you do with the information
00:17:06 ◼ ► like how do you retain it how does it become like thing a thing that you're you're it just becomes part
00:17:14 ◼ ► of your mind as it were yeah i'm intrigued so i'll start and i'll say that retaining for me is always
00:17:22 ◼ ► more difficult than finding um finding you know whenever i come across a topic that i feel like
00:17:29 ◼ ► okay this is something that i want to learn about and maybe you know a few months ago it was ai and
00:17:34 ◼ ► maybe before it was uh e gpus and like this this sort of macro topics uh i think it's important to have
00:17:41 ◼ ► that distinction right away like the bigger topics of my life that i want to learn about like oh i feel
00:17:47 ◼ ► like i'm behind on ai and it's becoming part of my job i should learn more about this or like oh i'm
00:17:52 ◼ ► doing a podcast about handles i should learn more about handles and those are like the bigger topics
00:17:57 ◼ ► and then there are like the smaller things like the one-off questions and i think in my mind those are
00:18:02 ◼ ► two separate things although they share the same methodology so to speak um so for me it always
00:18:09 ◼ ► it tends to start with reddit um if anything because like i always prefer like a good a good
00:18:18 ◼ ► google search that's filtered to reddit to try and find and usually like i take advantage of the uh date
00:18:26 ◼ ► filters a lot like find information from the past month or for the past year for example um a good
00:18:33 ◼ ► theoretically human conversation on reddit i say theoretically because there's been like
00:18:39 ◼ ► controversy that like some ai bots from some university were like actually manipulating people
00:18:44 ◼ ► in this subreddit we don't need to get into all of that but by and large if i'm reading a conversation
00:18:49 ◼ ► about e gpus on the e gpus subreddit i'm running into a bunch of like like-minded people that have done
00:18:55 ◼ ► this before me right so that's usually the first place to start and uh like the the the first line of
00:19:04 ◼ ► offense is always google uh reddit and after that there's a combination of so it's like a funnel
00:19:10 ◼ ► right like i i have all these layers and the deeper i go down i'm trying to distill like the actual
00:19:16 ◼ ► details that i need and and and when i do that i keep like a notes app on the side and it's not like i'm
00:19:24 ◼ ► writing down absolutely everything that i gotta know but like just the key details um so after that
00:19:28 ◼ ► wikipedia is a good place to double check um youtube videos because unfortunately like a lot
00:19:35 ◼ ► of information for like tech stuff these days you can only find in youtube videos and sometimes you
00:19:40 ◼ ► can use google search to find a keyword in a transcript of a youtube video so there's also that
00:19:47 ◼ ► uh also filtering youtube results by date also helps and finding smaller creators like smaller youtubers
00:19:54 ◼ ► especially for like niche content like there was this creator on youtube uh she was doing like this
00:19:59 ◼ ► wild e gpus setups and she had like 500 subscribers to the channel incredible resource that nobody knew
00:20:06 ◼ ► about so what so like why would you look was it recommended like how do you find that person and be like
00:20:12 ◼ ► usually usually one other thing that i do um usually these people um when especially when it's like
00:20:18 ◼ ► new creators they tend to have the same usernames across reddit and youtube for example or so sometimes
00:20:25 ◼ ► they link their own channels i always read the comments in these reddit threads and sometimes they
00:20:31 ◼ ► link to their stuff or sometimes you can tell that they have like a youtuber adjacent username and so i just
00:20:38 ◼ ► looked them up and realized oh they also have a channel so that kind of stuff i do all the time um
00:20:44 ◼ ► in the post uh ai era that has really changed in a way that has like complemented how i learn about stuff
00:20:56 ◼ ► um especially in the past two months like these models like gemini 2.5 pro or o3 that have web access
00:21:05 ◼ ► and so they're not just hallucinating stuff they're actually looking up and hitting those websites and
00:21:10 ◼ ► they're giving you an answer that is grounded on a web result if for whatever reason my traditional
00:21:16 ◼ ► search query on google cannot get me to those websites there's a good chance that my natural
00:21:22 ◼ ► language query in an ai will find that website so this has been great for tutorials um this has been great
00:21:37 ◼ ► and uh i like i said i always keep a notes up on the side um just to make sure and i link to the source
00:21:45 ◼ ► like i always like i have a i have a few notes in obsidian with like links to reddit threads or
00:21:52 ◼ ► previous conversations that i've had with chat gpt just to make sure that something that i learned i can
00:21:58 ◼ ► find again later um and the the one thing that i will mention also about bigger topics is uh i've really
00:22:07 ◼ ► taken advantage of uh gemini 2.5 pro um when i absolutely know nothing about a topic that i i
00:22:17 ◼ ► feel and this could be like random things that i feel like i know nothing about this uh this is sort
00:22:21 ◼ ► of how my brain works i think about the most possible random thing that i feel like oh i don't i don't
00:22:27 ◼ ► know anything about this topic like for example a few weeks ago i was like i feel like i've been
00:22:31 ◼ ► mentioning pwas on connected like a bunch of times but i've never really done any reading about pwas and
00:22:38 ◼ ► so a trick that i've learned lately is i will go into um gemini 2.5 pro ask for deep research uh query
00:22:47 ◼ ► so the deep research is the one that like takes a bunch of times and come back comes back to you with
00:22:52 ◼ ► like a little google doc essay with all the source uh citations at the bottom so what i do is i take
00:23:00 ◼ ► that that google doc i import it into notebook lm and at that point i can either ask questions about the
00:23:08 ◼ ► topic um so like about pws i could ask like okay tell me like what are the key differences between pwas and
00:23:15 ◼ ► android and ios and give me the source and so he would give me answers with the sources or and i've
00:23:22 ◼ ► done this a couple of times and it's it's been kind of weird but also useful at the same time i i ask for
00:23:28 ◼ ► a deep research about a topic i put i get the google doc put the google doc into notebook lm and then listen
00:23:35 ◼ ► to 20 minutes of the fake podcast that they create like the audio overview it's been surprisingly
00:23:40 ◼ ► efficient for like learning like the key details about something like in a car drive for 15 minutes
00:23:47 ◼ ► or something it's been very very clever very very useful uh but i would say by far the most important
00:23:55 ◼ ► combo for me as always like this trifecta of google reddit wikipedia has been like my sort of key workflow
00:24:05 ◼ ► for the past you know 20 years that have been online so to speak yeah okay so i guess there's also just like a
00:24:15 ◼ ► a time element right and so you prioritize this kind of this idea just like learning idea like you will just
00:24:26 ◼ ► prioritize like i want to learn more about this so i'm just going to take the time and do that
00:24:30 ◼ ► yeah i think i think i've always done that like i've always been a curious person because i get um
00:24:36 ◼ ► i think one of one of the one of the one of the key things that sylvia and i we have in common
00:24:41 ◼ ► and is the fact that we get bored easily with um staying the same or using the same things like
00:24:52 ◼ ► we get bored with the status quo of anything pretty quickly and regularly and uh it's it's
00:25:00 ◼ ► like not to get too philosophical here but like i've always i've always been this way even when i was
00:25:04 ◼ ► like in in middle school like i've always been i've always thought that um it's it's a shame not to be a
00:25:12 ◼ ► curious person because you know the time that you have is limited so it's kind of boring and it feels
00:25:18 ◼ ► like a waste not to be a curious person and i've always been fascinated um uh sylvia's um uh grandfather
00:25:27 ◼ ► uh he passed away a decade ago but until he was like 92 he was like still writing books and browsing
00:25:35 ◼ ► the internet and asking questions about stuff like he always and and that that person like really had an
00:25:42 ◼ ► impact on me in terms of like yeah look at look at this guy you know he's 92 and still learning about
00:25:47 ◼ ► stuff um and so i i feel like especially uh in the past 18 years of my life i i i've always made an
00:25:58 ◼ ► effort to be curious and not to settle on knowledge like especially pre-existing knowledge that i have
00:26:05 ◼ ► about something um that doesn't mean i feel like it doesn't mean not to have any principles it just
00:26:11 ◼ ► means that you know it's it's good for your soul to know as much as you can um and so i do actually
00:26:19 ◼ ► uh set out just a bit of time for myself every night just browsing reading i do a lot of reading
00:26:26 ◼ ► um and just you know going down rabbit holes and more often than not that curiosity and maybe it's just
00:26:35 ◼ ► my brain but that curiosity like it creates other ideas you know it's it's like you're browsing about
00:26:42 ◼ ► a topic but then somehow you think about something else that you can use for your work or then you can
00:26:52 ◼ ► i'm gonna do some reading and see where i go or are you like oh i want to do uh it's a combination of
00:26:59 ◼ ► both i feel like uh i feel like especially with the fact that i'm not an a native english speaker
00:27:07 ◼ ► what i do a lot um when i listen to whenever i listen to podcasts or when i read articles
00:27:14 ◼ ► there have been over the years many many cultural references that i never fully understood and so
00:27:22 ◼ ► whenever i hear something that i don't understand like an expression or like a fact or something that
00:27:28 ◼ ► like maybe for example americans take you know take for granted that everybody understands what
00:27:33 ◼ ► it means like i just i just make a note and then i google it later and that's usually how it starts
00:27:39 ◼ ► so um i think observation is is the like just um not let do not let the things that you read or the
00:27:49 ◼ ► things that you watch kind of wash over you just make a note of the things that like oh what's that
00:27:55 ◼ ► mean and make it out of it and then later when you got 30 minutes for yourself you just go wild
00:27:59 ◼ ► what about you steven uh mine is really similar to federico's minus the ai part of it um that has not
00:28:08 ◼ ► made it into my exploring a new topic uh workflow mainly because i think i would be afraid it would teach
00:28:18 ◼ ► me to put glue on pizza or whatever um you still think that it's it's okay it doesn't tell you that
00:28:25 ◼ ► anymore i'm i'm far less optimistic about it than you are we have swapped places uh i think but it's uh
00:28:33 ◼ ► yeah i mean i think reddit wikipedia those are all good things um you know i i mostly thought of this
00:28:39 ◼ ► question in a work context so like i've done a lot of this over the last you know year and a half
00:28:45 ◼ ► forking with underscore right like learning how to to work on optimizing paywalls and like all sorts of
00:28:52 ◼ ► stuff that i'm doing right and having uh those resources online are are really good um and i think
00:29:01 ◼ ► for like more casual stuff like uh you know like everyone else because of the influence of jason
00:29:08 ◼ ► right like i've been uh been listening to uh episodes of the rest of history and like learning
00:29:14 ◼ ► about oh like what were the causes of world war one like i knew kind of vaguely like someone got shot
00:29:19 ◼ ► but uh those sorts of things i think that story is amazing yeah i think those um those sorts of
00:29:27 ◼ ► things like you know podcasts and potentially ai could be uh a good fit but yeah federico's i think is
00:29:33 ◼ ► is actually really good um and yeah with everything on the internet right and everything
00:29:38 ◼ ► and ai and everything else like verification is good right like i'm not gonna watch just one video
00:29:44 ◼ ► about how to rewire my house you know gonna gonna supplement that in various places but having having
00:29:51 ◼ ► these resources at our disposal is just like amazing like what this question really made me do was just
00:29:57 ◼ ► kind of reflect of like how lucky we are to live when we do in terms of this stuff like i can just look
00:30:04 ◼ ► up like how to re-plumb a toilet and do it and that's kind of a miracle you know it's it's it's amazing
00:30:11 ◼ ► but for you a lot of a lot of the other research you do it comes from your dev and think right yeah
00:30:19 ◼ ► so like you're just going around the internet like hoovering up information and then if you want to
00:30:26 ◼ ► you want to sit down and write an article about i don't know i just wrote one about like the
00:30:32 ◼ ► processor direct slot in early max there you go so how does that how does how does the research for
00:30:38 ◼ ► something like that work yeah so i mean the dev and think databases like anytime i come across
00:30:43 ◼ ► anything about old computers basically gets sucked into there and having um you know having those
00:30:51 ◼ ► resources is great because i can like search for you know so so like the the pds thing that i
00:30:57 ◼ ► start for 512 members right like sorry but it's like what does what does my dev and think database
00:31:01 ◼ ► have about the processor direct slot so like search across all these you know thousands and thousands
00:31:07 ◼ ► of documents and reading them and trying to like really actually really like what federico said like
00:31:13 ◼ ► oh i came across a term or something i'm not familiar with like okay like let's go down that branch okay so like
00:31:19 ◼ ► pds is talking about okay well it interfaces directly with like the pins of the processor like well what
00:31:25 ◼ ► does that actually mean like in terms of how it works compared to something more modern right so like you
00:31:32 ◼ ► kind of go down that rabbit hole and um and then supplement it with web searches and and those other
00:31:37 ◼ ► things that he mentioned so really my dev and think database is like a very specific version of the
00:31:43 ◼ ► internet or like anytime i see a link on social media or like come across a blog post or something on the
00:31:49 ◼ ► wayback machine like it gets saved in there just as a you know sometimes it is the source right like
00:31:55 ◼ ► i'll quote you know baby jason snell and a macworld magazine from 1886 or other times i might use that to
00:32:03 ◼ ► like go search something online that that piques my interest or it's something i don't understand okay
00:32:09 ◼ ► yeah i mean i just i just i feel like i i'm a curious person but i don't feel like i have as deep
00:32:21 ◼ ► knowledge about things that the two of you do like it's just like a thing it doesn't really bother me
00:32:28 ◼ ► too much in most of the stuff that i do because a lot of the knowledge that i need is like accumulated
00:32:32 ◼ ► over time right like a lot of the knowledge that i need to do this job is based upon the fact that i've
00:32:38 ◼ ► lived the last 10 years right so it's just like with this just it just happened to me but if i wanted
00:32:43 ◼ ► to learn about something new i'm just not sure that i have the muscle anymore like it like and i feel like
00:32:51 ◼ ► i could start a project similar to the two of you and which would not get the depth of information and maybe
00:32:57 ◼ ► it's just a personality difference or maybe it's just that i don't i don't really have the tools because
00:33:07 ◼ ► instinct like uh that was part of the reason i wanted to branch out career wise and like
00:33:16 ◼ ► i had that sort of in the back of my head of like have i sort of learned what i'm going to learn in my
00:33:23 ◼ ► career and is that something like am i okay with that am i not okay with that like it really was a point
00:33:30 ◼ ► to examine so i think that's a good sort of reflective process to undertake and i would say don't sell
00:33:36 ◼ ► yourself short like yeah it's it is much harder to learn here you know knocking on the age of 40 than
00:33:44 ◼ ► it was when i was 20 right like i had to take a big exam a couple of years ago for something non-work
00:33:48 ◼ ► related and it was really hard to study like it was just hard to memorize and like do the thing that i
00:33:55 ◼ ► used to do all the time in school but i can still do it and i still have those muscles and and the more
00:34:01 ◼ ► that i use them the kind of easier it is to keep using them so i think this is a really a really great
00:34:08 ◼ ► topic and something that i think is important to think about as we as we all get a little bit older
00:34:13 ◼ ► yeah and i think it's something i'm going to keep coming back to a little bit because i'm on a little
00:34:18 ◼ ► bit personal journey right now yeah yeah and i really think there's never been a better time to learn about
00:34:24 ◼ ► anything um when you consider just like the devices that you have um just the the many many search tools
00:34:32 ◼ ► that you have on the internet how you can use ai as a as a as an assistant for this sort of stuff
00:34:38 ◼ ► um i really feel like i would i would be so curious to see how i would be a student today
00:34:48 ◼ ► compared to when i was in school 20 years ago you know uh and i really think it's i also i i also think
00:34:56 ◼ ► it's important to say that it's like you are a curious person i feel like maybe what you're looking
00:35:02 ◼ ► for is a little bit more of a practice you know yeah when it comes to reading or taking notes or
00:35:08 ◼ ► whatever um and you know just just just use whatever you want i think you mentioned you were
00:35:15 ◼ ► using readwise reader that's an excellent way to like you know save a bunch of articles about like
00:35:20 ◼ ► being a father or something and and highlight that stuff and now you can use that they have that feature
00:35:27 ◼ ► on the web where you can search your highlights with natural language and so you can do hey have
00:35:33 ◼ ► i ever highlighted anything about x topic you know yeah you you don't need to build a complex system i
00:35:41 ◼ ► guess is what no and readwise is definitely like something that i think is is is gonna be key for me
00:35:48 ◼ ► good like i i like the i like how easy it is i like the tagging and i like the highlights i think
00:35:54 ◼ ► that the kind of the set of features it has is really good the thing that is just i keep stumbling
00:35:58 ◼ ► on is like where do i find the things to put in it it's like where where do they come from and again
00:36:05 ◼ ► i feel like i'm i'm slowly getting there um but it's it's difficult because i mean one of the areas
00:36:12 ◼ ► i'm trying to learn more about is just design right like industrial design and it's difficult i'm finding
00:36:28 ◼ ► who are the federicos and stevens and jasons in this world and it's difficult it actually might not exist
00:36:38 ◼ ► uh like in like the very specific area that i'm looking at um and i'm like poking around and i'm trying
00:36:44 ◼ ► trying to find these like voices of people you know that i that make sense to me but i'm it's it's it's
00:36:51 ◼ ► tricky no especially on the web where like so much stuff is locked up in video you know like that's the
00:36:59 ◼ ► thing that google's got to solve with youtube it needs to be much easier to search for things
00:37:03 ◼ ► i really do think that for that kind of like subjective like you're trying to find sources
00:37:16 ◼ ► by comparing other sources to a different field i really do think that you should give this this new
00:37:24 ◼ ► ai tools a try like this deep research i have yeah i used uh i've been i've been working on with an open ai
00:37:32 ◼ ► deep research query to do this okay and it's been okay so far um but i'm still kind of like every
00:37:40 ◼ ► couple of days whatever i'm plugging away at it and being like no i'm looking for this kind of thing or
00:37:45 ◼ ► more of that less of that like i have found it to be that system to be better at trying to dig
00:37:52 ◼ ► these things up but i haven't yet i haven't yet really stumbled on what i'm looking for and it this
00:38:00 ◼ ► might be one of those things where i might not be asking the question right you know um because it's
00:38:05 ◼ ► giving me answers but they're not the result of them is not necessarily what is speak it doesn't
00:38:12 ◼ ► really speaking to me you know but it might just be that you're right like i'm i'm trying to overlay
00:38:19 ◼ ► something onto something else and maybe i need to kind of like start back at foundation and move on
00:38:24 ◼ ► from there like you're saying about you know so much of the web is in video i also think
00:38:34 ◼ ► like i have no problem paying for content but i i like to try and know that it's the content i want
00:38:42 ◼ ► before i pay for it yeah for sure yeah which is and and not and not all websites really seem to get
00:38:48 ◼ ► that it's just like no you would just pay and say yeah but i'm coming here for the first time
00:38:53 ◼ ► like i need you to kind of let's work together on this a little bit you know i mean mike that's why
00:38:58 ◼ ► connected pro is such a great deal because it's just more of this that's a great point for seven
00:39:03 ◼ ► dollars a month that is such a great point or seventy dollars a year so you get a couple of free
00:39:08 ◼ ► months yeah and you get discord and much other cool stuff and you can hear about how steven
00:39:19 ◼ ► this episode of connected is brought to you by turbulence forecast the easiest way to know
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00:41:30 ◼ ► and all of relay all right federico right before we started recording you uh dropped a link on us
00:41:39 ◼ ► that uh androids may be getting a redesign here in may at io yeah it seems like it uh the folks at android
00:41:48 ◼ ► authority uh they posted this article uh showing screenshots uh what looks to be a pretty big ui overhaul for
00:41:55 ◼ ► android uh based on hidden settings in the latest uh in beta 4 of android 16 which is currently ongoing
00:42:04 ◼ ► uh android 16 is supposed to ship at some point in june i think um so that would be after io um
00:42:11 ◼ ► and we're looking at i know i'm looking at these photos this side-by-side comparisons of the current android and
00:42:20 ◼ ► uh supposedly redesigned android and it's funny because oh part of me thinks that it kind of looks uh
00:42:27 ◼ ► like one of those like samsung skins of android like one ui what is it called it looks very it looks
00:42:36 ◼ ► you know it's a little bit more rounded obviously inspired by ios is it one plus who like it's just
00:42:50 ◼ ► kinda ios yeah um uh but at the same time what's funny is that it seems from these photos that google is also
00:43:02 ◼ ► doing the sort of blurred background there's a lot of translucency lots of translucencies that are
00:43:09 ◼ ► currently rumored for ios 19 so you can see in these images you know the new control center uh
00:43:16 ◼ ► or the new notifications you can see a blurred wallpaper in the background um it would be so funny
00:43:23 ◼ ► if google uh shows off a version of a redesigned android with transparency and translucencies you know
00:43:31 ◼ ► like uh two weeks before uh wwdc with ios 19 supposedly doing the same thing and they've got um
00:43:39 ◼ ► i see right at the bottom icon shapes this is a thing that was rumored for ios right this this was a
00:43:45 ◼ ► thing that was rumored for ios it was also a thing that was rumored for android this is not a new rumor
00:43:50 ◼ ► i saw a report a report about icon shapes a few months ago this was actually a feature icon shapes in
00:43:56 ◼ ► android 11 i think yeah they took it away again and a lot of android launchers have it like if you install
00:44:02 ◼ ► your own home screen thing yeah yeah yeah yeah so i mean the more you look at these images the more
00:44:09 ◼ ► the more you you realize truly how much ios and android are similar to each other at this point
00:44:15 ◼ ► like you look at settings you look at the icon customization screen or the wallpaper customization
00:44:20 ◼ ► screen control center notifications and sure there there are implementation details that are different
00:44:26 ◼ ► between them but my god are they similar to each other at this point i like the new look of the settings
00:44:33 ◼ ► like because i've been using my uh pixel fold yeah android set the android settings app is like
00:44:38 ◼ ► it's so hard to pass like yeah because it's like a list of stuff it's a list of a lot of text
00:44:47 ◼ ► yeah it's really it's a very strange ui android settings like because it's not always immediately
00:44:55 ◼ ► obvious something is actually something you tap on like you think apple's bad right with like that's not a
00:45:01 ◼ ► button like some things in android it's just like there is just text like it's just a list it's just a
00:45:07 ◼ ► just like a paragraph and you just got to work out whether you can tap on it or not it's quite peculiar
00:45:14 ◼ ► the funniest thing about android for me is that on so many different android versions if you want
00:45:19 ◼ ► to enable uh like hidden or developer settings you need to go into the settings about info page and tap
00:45:29 ◼ ► five times yeah the build number of android yep uh and that's wild imagine if apple let you do that let
00:45:36 ◼ ► you do that like just go there and tap five times on the build number uh but that's like so cool to
00:45:42 ◼ ► android though right that like that weirdness like the fact that even this right which is that the new ui
00:45:50 ◼ ► is hidden in the beta like that just this is such a google thing to do to me like it's just like it's
00:45:57 ◼ ► in there you just gotta find it but it's in there like i find that i find it very funny
00:46:03 ◼ ► yeah so we'll see you know they could do they could do the funniest thing ever uh at io with the
00:46:10 ◼ ► redesign android and yeah you know ios they and you mentioned mike before the call like they've done this
00:46:16 ◼ ► before right yeah like well i mean it happens there was the yeah the thing that i mentioned
00:46:23 ◼ ► is like um screen time right and yes google calls digital well-being and and apple i don't i think
00:46:29 ◼ ► they called it that too but they just kind of stopped using that phrase but like in android it still is
00:46:34 ◼ ► all those settings are just called that where i think apple over time it's just like this is part of
00:46:38 ◼ ► like parental controls and screen time um they did that at the same time but over over the there's
00:46:44 ◼ ► always been these things which like they're clear trends and and it's like and i expect genuinely a
00:46:49 ◼ ► lot of the time is that what is it called like simultaneous invention is that yes yes like that there is
00:46:55 ◼ ► just a push towards something and it's just funny that they both end up in the same spot yeah yeah
00:47:02 ◼ ► because there's just certain things where it's like if all developers are thinking about it it's it's not
00:47:08 ◼ ► you know and just like the lead times for these things of like there's a rumor today about apple
00:47:13 ◼ ► it's like google can't get that ready for io right it's like they didn't read mark german in february
00:47:19 ◼ ► and be like oh snap we got a redesign you know um it's funny hey did y'all see apple has a new web page
00:47:27 ◼ ► i don't understand what i'm look i looked at this and i don't understand what i'm looking at
00:47:35 ◼ ► so if you go to snapshot dot apple dot com okay it's just a great it's just a great of famous
00:47:45 ◼ ► people yeah yeah okay and you click on one of them you can't search and you can't skim you just have
00:47:53 ◼ ► to wait for cardi b to slide past you and then you can click on her um cardi b who i definitely know is
00:47:58 ◼ ► a real person that's a that's a throwback uh and then you click on them and it's just a list of what
00:48:04 ◼ ► they've done and how to get to it on apple music podcast and tv i love the the the page title is
00:48:11 ◼ ► snapshot on apple yeah i don't know what that means at all your favorite at a glance me do you guys
00:48:19 ◼ ► remember meet me at apple meet me at apple meet yeah yeah meet me apples yeah um okay so they this is
00:48:28 ◼ ► like a craigslist for celebrities like you just go here you know i'm gonna click on on uh drake i just
00:48:36 ◼ ► i just i love the selection of people yeah we have cate blanchett cardi b lionel messi cold
00:48:51 ◼ ► this is this this to me feels like the thing that tim cook wanted to show off to his nephew at
00:49:00 ◼ ► thanksgiving is like hey look at look at all the people that i work with you know uncle tim's company
00:49:07 ◼ ► over the years you know discover more about the artists actors and athletes you love across apple like
00:49:15 ◼ ► this would make sense to me if this was just an apple tv thing right yeah yeah no but like i clicked
00:49:20 ◼ ► on jennifer aniston and you know i got the morning show obviously but also friends yeah did you know
00:49:27 ◼ ► that jennifer aniston was in france didn't know that actually i thought she was just in the morning
00:49:30 ◼ ► do you know did you did you know that she's been on three podcast episodes that you can find on apple
00:49:35 ◼ ► podcasts just three just three well these are the three episodes that are featured on one from 2020
00:49:43 ◼ ► and the other two from 2022 well she she hasn't been on any podcasts over the past four years it seems
00:49:48 ◼ ► this is obviously connected to something right like this isn't just like a thing that now all of a sudden
00:49:56 ◼ ► lives on apple's website right there's obviously like another thing that this ties into i mean my
00:50:06 ◼ ► assumption is this is something to do with like apple tv that that's my guess is that this is an apple tv
00:50:19 ◼ ► they did that thing what what do they call it for apple tv um like it's like the x-ray thing that amazon
00:50:29 ◼ ► has yeah right and if it's it yeah what was that steven is it insight i think so i could imagine that
00:50:37 ◼ ► this is just this is like an expansion of that which maybe is trying to stretch outside of just
00:50:45 ◼ ► apple tv content and like but but these things need to have just like some kind of web back end and this
00:50:51 ◼ ► is the web back end or something like that i don't know and like oh this is the front end of that back
00:50:55 ◼ ► end just existing on the web it's weird i don't know because it's very this is like why does it why
00:51:01 ◼ ► is here how was it even found like how how was this a thing that people don't know about do you know
00:51:06 ◼ ► uh i i saw i just saw it reported so i don't know if apple like sent someone pr email but look what we
00:51:13 ◼ ► did or someone stumbled across it here we go spotted by nine to five mac yeah see this is from ryan that
00:51:20 ◼ ► launched a new page on the website which means that like this is just one of these things where like a
00:51:23 ◼ ► bunch of sites like nine to five mac rumors they're doing something to just see like is there a new
00:51:28 ◼ ► subdomain all the time right is my assumption and i'm sure they have some kind of thing that just
00:51:33 ◼ ► like alerts them when something goes live yeah i think call sheet safe and sound casey's app is
00:51:39 ◼ ► fine yeah although casey i recommend that you also should just make call sheets you are you are just a
00:51:45 ◼ ► very slow scrolling list of things with no search you just have to wait for your favorite movie to
00:51:58 ◼ ► some some classic movie that you did you guys did you guys know the post malone is an american
00:52:08 ◼ ► federico have you seen have you seen his uh the thing that he did at an snl 50 where he sang smells
00:52:18 ◼ ► like team spirit with the no rest of nirvana no i haven't you have to look this up it's incredible
00:52:24 ◼ ► he sounds so much like um oh my god why is his name going on my head this is kirkobane kirkobane
00:52:34 ◼ ► thank you he sounds so much like kirkobane like it really it's very it's a very very impressive
00:52:38 ◼ ► performance yeah i mean the remaining members of the band i ironically love post malone uh so i will i
00:52:45 ◼ ► will find that yeah you'll like this uh it was it was quite surprising yeah oh man i actually i
00:52:51 ◼ ► actually loved the latest country album by posty everyone's doing country man yeah everybody's doing
00:52:58 ◼ ► country you know thanks steven thank you why is that on me you're the closest to it i mean that's
00:53:06 ◼ ► why that's why you that's why you exported from memphis right i mean it's country music and elvis the
00:53:11 ◼ ► most time that i will hear country music in a calendar year is when i'm in memphis yeah i mean i think our
00:53:17 ◼ ► export is like blues and rock but that's fine and you obviously on the internet me obviously yeah
00:53:38 ◼ ► about using a pixel fold as a secondary device yes and um i just sort of sat here quietly
00:54:03 ◼ ► okay not not a pixel fold it's a it's an iphone 15 pro that technically belongs to underscore but
00:54:10 ◼ ► that's fine well that's a work phone it's a work phone yeah unless you've made that one your personal
00:54:15 ◼ ► phone no no no no my 16 pro is a personal phone uh this is still very early it's only been okay a couple
00:54:52 ◼ ► and uh taking them off my personal phone and shuffled them over to this iphone 15 pro that i
00:54:58 ◼ ► have okay and so my personal phone my personal phone i'll talk about safety nets in a second
00:55:06 ◼ ► all right remind me to come back to safety nets um but it means like on sunday like we were just doing
00:55:12 ◼ ► family stuff and like my work phone was just like on the kitchen counter i just didn't look at it and
00:55:19 ◼ ► you know couldn't be distracted by discord no there's no social media apps my personal phone
00:55:23 ◼ ► there are on my on my work phone so what about instagram it's off my personal phone now too
00:55:37 ◼ ► so several things happened um i spent you know a few weeks ago we were at saint jude with uh casey and
00:55:45 ◼ ► brad and kathy and jason and kind of sort of preparation for the fall with an event that they do for
00:55:51 ◼ ► creators like a bunch of my friends at alsac and saint jude have work phones and they do it because like
00:55:57 ◼ ► they have company information on them and like you know if oh so it was peer pressure okay well
00:56:04 ◼ ► so uh i talked to a couple people and they were like no don't do it it's a pain in the butt to have two
00:56:08 ◼ ► phones yeah yep yep yep uh but the idea of like you could just leave it behind and and it's not with you it was compelling
00:56:18 ◼ ► and i just had the realization because i work with a lot of british people or or people who live in england
00:56:26 ◼ ► that basically the first thing i do like when i pick up my phone in the morning is check slack
00:56:32 ◼ ► because there's relay stuff there's stuff with david like it's not and i don't like that like i i found
00:56:38 ◼ ► myself like responding to things in slack at 6 30 in the morning and then basically not being at work for
00:56:44 ◼ ► for another two hours because i get up i help take kids to school and my work day basically starts
00:56:48 ◼ ► around 8 30 or 8 45 after the school run and i just didn't like that and so i was like well you know
00:56:55 ◼ ► this is an experiment worth undertaking i have this phone for beta purposes anyways and let's just set
00:57:04 ◼ ► it up and and see how it goes and so yeah that's kind of kind of the state of it right now i'm happy
00:57:11 ◼ ► to answer any questions and i do want to talk about safety nets yeah let's talk about safety nets okay let's
00:57:16 ◼ ► talk about them now so so again let's refer back to our friends at saint jude now sack right a lot of them i
00:57:24 ◼ ► i don't actually have their personal phone numbers i have their work phone number right because in our
00:57:30 ◼ ► our relationship is within a work context and that's not true for all of them but it's true for for for
00:57:36 ◼ ► for many of them and it means that you know i'm sort of siloed in their lives as a work person and that's
00:57:44 ◼ ► how it should be right it's that's that that division is good that's difficult for me for a couple of
00:57:53 ◼ ► reasons one i don't have a nine to five job right like i am the co-founder of relay along with mike
00:58:01 ◼ ► i basically work my own hours in my own days as i want and that's a huge like awesome incredible thing
00:58:12 ◼ ► i get to do but the downside is uh if you can work anytime you end up working all the time
00:58:20 ◼ ► so that's sort of like point one is like i don't have clearly defined work hours normally even though
00:58:26 ◼ ► i try to end my day at 5 30 you know stuff happens for instance uh our developer who works on our cms at
00:58:32 ◼ ► relay he works extremely part-time for us he's a freelancer for us and that means his availability
00:58:40 ◼ ► is only in the evenings right so like if if ben is going to be working on something i got to be around
00:58:46 ◼ ► um so that's kind of point one point two is everyone i work with already has my personal
00:58:51 ◼ ► phone number and so i am not gonna go to 45 people at relay or whatever and be like here's a new phone
00:58:59 ◼ ► number don't contact me on my personal phone like i'm not gonna do that can you can you imagine
00:59:07 ◼ ► stop texting me so that's that's coupled with the fact that all of us or most of us at relay we're
00:59:16 ◼ ► pretty disciplined that work happens in slack and like personal conversations happen in messages now
00:59:23 ◼ ► that's not 100 but i would say that's probably 80 true right like if like if carrie has something she
00:59:30 ◼ ► needs to run by me for an advertisement for np you're connected she's not going to text me she's
00:59:35 ◼ ► going to send it in slack and i'll see it when i see it and i deal with it so instead of this being a
00:59:41 ◼ ► negative i'm viewing it as a positive i'm viewing it as if i don't have discord or slack on my personal
00:59:49 ◼ ► phone and like something really hits the fan it's always been with people i work the closest the
00:59:58 ◼ ► closeliest with text me right like if something is you really need me and i'm not on slack
01:00:05 ◼ ► you can text me and and so that is my safety net here of like not having these apps on my personal
01:00:11 ◼ ► phone and say that i leave the work phone at home and we go out somewhere if something really hits the
01:00:17 ◼ ► fan and i and they i need to know about it that's still possible and so far i feel like that's actually
01:00:25 ◼ ► a pretty decent balance for my world the way that i work and and you know 10 years of history of being
01:00:33 ◼ ► independent like all these things that are already true in my life that having uh my personal phone
01:00:40 ◼ ► with me all the time and people having that number is actually a good thing in those cases where
01:00:46 ◼ ► you know i published an episode of connect and we forgot an ad and carrie's trying to get a hold
01:00:51 ◼ ► of me to fix it like i need to know about that that's that's on the list of emergencies within
01:00:57 ◼ ► relay that's really high and she can break that glass in case of emergency does that make sense so is slack
01:01:04 ◼ ► on your personal phone or all so uh slack currently is on the personal phone with no notifications
01:01:14 ◼ ► and that was that's a stepping stone and it's not going to last it is going to come off at some
01:01:18 ◼ ► point okay cool this is good that you said that because like i would like to take slack off my
01:01:23 ◼ ► personal phone but i don't feel like i can like that you just don't naturally assume that i could do that
01:01:29 ◼ ► but if you're gonna do it then i can do it well i do it i do it because people can text me if there's
01:01:35 ◼ ► something serious and i just don't know where your boundaries are with that because like but it's the
01:01:40 ◼ ► same though people can always text me if i'm serious but i also have kind of like i've been
01:01:43 ◼ ► doing a lot of reflecting it's like i actually just don't think things are really ever really that
01:01:47 ◼ ► serious like i just don't very rarely it's so rare that i don't know if it's something that needs to to
01:01:54 ◼ ► be like that prepared for you know that and so so part of this like the reflection angle of it um
01:02:05 ◼ ► i didn't really realize this until yesterday when i kind of sat down i was like thinking through i took
01:02:09 ◼ ► some notes separately from the notion just for myself in this conversation but what i've realized
01:02:14 ◼ ► is this experiment is a maybe not direct but it is an it is a it is a result it's a byproduct of my
01:02:26 ◼ ► sabbatical in october which is now like six months ago or something which is hard to believe
01:02:32 ◼ ► um in that what i learned in that sabbatical is that things that feel important or or or really were
01:02:44 ◼ ► important in the earlier days of of our company are far less frequent now are handled by other members
01:02:54 ◼ ► of the team now right like part of me was still stuck in this company is just the two of us and like i need
01:03:01 ◼ ► to know everything that's going on all the time and the truth is and the truth has been for years
01:03:05 ◼ ► that's just not true because we have an amazing team because we have lots of people working on lots of
01:03:10 ◼ ► things and that i could be less involved in the day-to-day uh because it's not retirement right
01:03:18 ◼ ► but it's like i didn't need to be hyper aware of everything happening in slack all the time like i
01:03:21 ◼ ► had been in the early days and honestly maybe that wasn't even true in the early days but that's how we
01:03:26 ◼ ► operated and so this feels like a sort of a a response to some of that and and i think it was
01:03:34 ◼ ► i think it was highlighted again on your paternity break right you were out for two months and
01:03:44 ◼ ► it was fine right like yeah i think we said this on my sabbatical there was one time where you where
01:03:51 ◼ ► you needed me and it's because like the website was down and you tried everything you knew to do
01:03:56 ◼ ► right like there will always be those sorts of things just because we are a small company
01:04:01 ◼ ► right and that was even something you couldn't fix yeah but then i was like hey ben and ben our
01:04:05 ◼ ► developer he knew i was on sabbatical was like hey i'm still on break but can you look at this and he
01:04:08 ◼ ► jumped on it and it was fine right um i just needed to be a conduit for that and and so it's really kind
01:04:15 ◼ ► of had me rethinking some of those things and and my general availability um so i think it's good that
01:04:22 ◼ ► you're thinking about it and federica i want to hear from you too because you and john like max stories i i
01:04:29 ◼ ► think you know from from sort of my point of view of like not working for max stories but being really
01:04:34 ◼ ► close with y'all and seeing how it works on the inside it seems to me that y'all are in in sort
01:04:41 ◼ ► of the same space relay is where like it was just you and john sort of primarily for a long time but
01:04:47 ◼ ► now y'all have a team like you have other people just like working on things um how do you feel
01:04:53 ◼ ► about this in your own experimentation and and separation what i'm gonna say you're not gonna like
01:05:01 ◼ ► and it'll probably be unpopular with the listeners uh but it's i'm sorry just who i am uh i don't have
01:05:09 ◼ ► any boundaries never have um when i when uh when i get like unless it's if there are emergencies we have
01:05:17 ◼ ► plans in place like text our developer you know text one of one of our two developers um obviously if it's
01:05:25 ◼ ► something really urgent john can call me uh but uh this is why i've never been that into like
01:05:32 ◼ ► focus modes or custom notifications like if something comes in and i'm busy doing something
01:05:37 ◼ ► else i just ignore it i'll get back to it eventually and i think you know it just you know i got a text
01:05:43 ◼ ► from a person a few hours ago i still haven't replied i will tonight just i was busy doing something
01:05:48 ◼ ► else but that actually makes it sound like you do have boundaries like they're your boundaries well
01:05:53 ◼ ► like you're gonna do it on your own time i guess they're just in my mind you know they're not they're
01:05:58 ◼ ► not separate by any software or hardware so uh i have never really particularly minded like oh i'm
01:06:08 ◼ ► getting work-related notifications uh when i'm on vacation you know i like to know that the the site is
01:06:15 ◼ ► still going but you know things are happening and you know if i'm on vacation and something major
01:06:24 ◼ ► happens i want to know about it like that's just how my brain works you know i don't i don't
01:06:30 ◼ ► personally i don't really buy the whole like you know i'm going on sabbatical thing i don't want to
01:06:37 ◼ ► know anything like i know i want to know it i want to know everything you know i want to be i'm kind of
01:06:42 ◼ ► like plugged in all the time so but then i don't act upon it that's the difference like i'm not
01:06:48 ◼ ► sitting down and getting work done you know um but i want to know so uh and maybe that'll change
01:06:55 ◼ ► in my life at some point still hasn't in 16 years that i've been doing this this racket um but yeah
01:07:06 ◼ ► yeah this is how i do it i think it it takes something that will make like i felt that same
01:07:14 ◼ ► as you and then i was off for two months and was like you know what actually i don't i don't need
01:07:19 ◼ ► to live my life the way i lived it before the the key thing for me that i keep coming back to of like
01:07:26 ◼ ► just like the simple thing of like trying to think of finding this separation is i want to go to work
01:07:33 ◼ ► i do not work do not want work to keep coming to me like in regular jobs people go to work right yeah
01:07:44 ◼ ► hopefully right and like that's the plan no but like i think that lines get blurred a lot more now and
01:07:50 ◼ ► actually people that work for other people live their lives a little bit more like people who work
01:07:56 ◼ ► for themselves i think that's 100 true yeah where and that i i find to be just like it's like
01:08:03 ◼ ► i find that disappointing because you're you're not people do not get the benefits of working for
01:08:08 ◼ ► themselves and they get the downsides of working for uh themselves you know but i find that it's a
01:08:14 ◼ ► shame i think it's a shame about a lot of modern working culture but um and so i'm just trying to
01:08:21 ◼ ► get to the get to a point where finding my comfort level like what am i okay with what am i not okay
01:08:31 ◼ ► with but like keeping this guiding principle of how do i get better at working when i'm in an environment
01:08:38 ◼ ► where i'm like i'm sitting down to work rather than just like doing little work things all the
01:08:44 ◼ ► time or at any time um and that that's where it's like the physical device separation is is helpful
01:08:50 ◼ ► for that um as well as a set like some emotional like separation of like you know now and and i would
01:08:57 ◼ ► say the work device is helping now of like sometimes i'm like i'm hanging out but then the baby's sleeping
01:09:03 ◼ ► on me and i'm not going to move for like 20 minutes or whatever i was like what could i do with this
01:09:07 ◼ ► time and it's like i have my phone in my hand i could like get my other phone and open blue sky
01:09:14 ◼ ► and i'm like nah getting the other phone is like now i'm i've given myself that step of like do you
01:09:20 ◼ ► do you really wanna and so like the last couple of weekends i've just not been checking social media
01:09:26 ◼ ► because the phone is often in my bag it's like so i'm just gonna leave it there and and just having
01:09:32 ◼ ► that like secondary step is just nice like i'm focusing on different things i'm doing different
01:09:37 ◼ ► things and and it comes back to the other thing that i was asking you about earlier right which is
01:09:41 ◼ ► like well if i do have that little bit of time something i could fill it with is like bettering
01:09:47 ◼ ► myself in some way learning about new things like doing things that are more um more my own choice
01:09:55 ◼ ► rather than like the choice of other people not even just algorithms but just like other people like
01:10:01 ◼ ► filling my mind with the things that they're thinking about like i would like to fill my mind with things
01:10:05 ◼ ► i'm thinking about a little bit more but uh steven i have a couple more questions for you okay
01:10:11 ◼ ► what is the notification situation for this device uh so i uh i actually i had a brainwave and actually
01:10:19 ◼ ► migrated my phone to this one so it inherited all my previous settings so the only mail notifications
01:10:27 ◼ ► to the lock screen are vips right the mail badge goes up but only vips get actually like a notification
01:10:33 ◼ ► but like this device gets notifications it does essentially what i'm asking so like you've
01:10:37 ◼ ► you've got it on your desk or whatever and it's buzzing like but it's not connected to your apple
01:10:41 ◼ ► watch right it is not connected to my apple watch so my apple watch notifications have fallen off
01:10:46 ◼ ► greatly interesting and this phone where does it go so it's uh so like uh for instance yesterday
01:10:56 ◼ ► i had a doctor's appointment like kind of midday i took it with me because like it's work hours
01:11:01 ◼ ► you know someone you know i'm i'm around i'm just kind of like in a waiting room and then
01:11:06 ◼ ► like seeing a doctor and then like you know so it was with me um but in the evenings i've been
01:11:12 ◼ ► plugging it in in the kitchen so if something you know i can check in if i want to but it's not it's
01:11:21 ◼ ► not like i i know some people don't like this i do charge my phone on my nightstand it's not coming
01:11:27 ◼ ► in the room bedroom like it's not charging on my nightstand it is in the kitchen uh if i'm at home
01:11:32 ◼ ► and i can i can pick it up and check it if i want to um and if i don't then it just sits there
01:11:38 ◼ ► and it has a cellular plan it does i put a t-mobile like just the cheapest t-mobile plan um
01:11:45 ◼ ► the same i keep getting text and actually turned off facetime because i kept getting calls i think
01:11:51 ◼ ► whoever had this number for me their friends think they're dead like it's like where are you like are
01:11:56 ◼ ► we hanging out it's like i just uh so i have messages notifications off because i don't um i don't
01:12:03 ◼ ► need those i do have i message say yeah i'll be at the spot at 7 p.m that's terrible that's terrible
01:12:10 ◼ ► at the spot um i do have messages turned on because um there have been a couple of times like oh there's
01:12:16 ◼ ► this thing on blue sky i want to share it with you know i grouped that with john but i don't like i just
01:12:23 ◼ ► use my phone number for i message and not my email and i do not want to change that and so it's like
01:12:28 ◼ ► oh i'm like sending the link to myself and then sharing it that part is messy and not worked out
01:12:33 ◼ ► yet that is incredibly complicated when you're using other operating systems yeah yeah i would
01:12:39 ◼ ► not want to do this with an android phone honestly this has been my biggest sticking point so far i was
01:12:45 ◼ ► like i see a link and i want to add it to apple notes it's like well how are we gonna get it that's
01:12:51 ◼ ► why i use obsidian because it's everywhere yeah yeah so this is this has been a thought of mine of
01:12:56 ◼ ► like i'm trying to find like what is a good way to to send this off i'm thinking oh maybe i just put
01:13:01 ◼ ► these links in readwise and put a special tag on them and like remember to check readwise when i'm
01:13:06 ◼ ► doing my show prep to grab all the links by the way i guess while we're on the topic of juggling
01:13:12 ◼ ► ios and android at the same time uh did i ever tell you guys that i've been texting you on iMessage
01:13:17 ◼ ► from android for the past like three months oh my god are you using beeper or something one of those
01:13:22 ◼ ► things uh i'm using blue bubbles on blue bubbles i don't never heard of it yeah one of the reasons
01:13:28 ◼ ► for the mac mini server okay yeah interesting interesting yeah i don't think i want to do that
01:13:34 ◼ ► but it would help a lot of stuff it's very it's very convenient it's very convenient you will notice
01:13:40 ◼ ► when a text from me is coming from android when when i'm sending you like a link and the link
01:13:46 ◼ ► bubble doesn't expand that's coming from blue bubbles uh so it's not doing the like rich expansion
01:13:52 ◼ ► thing yeah yeah okay oh yeah i'm scrolling back in our group thread there are definitely some examples
01:14:03 ◼ ► that's that's really funny um yeah i i do have both i mean the the work phone is signed into my
01:14:10 ◼ ► my iCloud account because like i do want like a lot of what i've done in the last couple weeks is like
01:14:16 ◼ ► screenshots for stuff it's like that's really helpful if it's just in my photos library it's like it's
01:14:20 ◼ ► sharing an iCloud account but messages is just on that random t-mobile phone number that no one has
01:14:27 ◼ ► and uh i can text myself something if i need to or use airdrop um it did remind me months ago on the
01:14:35 ◼ ► show we talked about this where you can turn off the uh my phone gets close to another phone and
01:14:41 ◼ ► starts airdropping because if you have two phones that's really annoying oh i have that off on the
01:14:46 ◼ ► work phone so it doesn't like try to talk to my other phone like over airdrop all the time
01:14:51 ◼ ► but uh yeah it's it's it's an ongoing process and same i i think you know based on the early days of
01:15:01 ◼ ► this i am actually really happy with it and uh we'll see we'll see i'm sure it will evolve and
01:15:14 ◼ ► another week on my takeaway currently is there are a lot of things that would be much easier if i had a
01:15:20 ◼ ► a second ios device yeah but also maybe making things a little bit harder is also the point
01:15:28 ◼ ► hmm that's what i haven't i have i'm not settled yet on like what what that means because there's been
01:15:35 ◼ ► some stuff that i've resisted so far like slack and stuff like that but i think i think i'm going
01:15:41 ◼ ► to give it a go of taking slack off my iphone and and just see what happens there yeah it's so this
01:15:47 ◼ ► is weird it's like super weird and maybe it's just like weird to talk about but it's just like i feel
01:15:51 ◼ ► we're not a new business it's like an old business now it's like a really old business now and like
01:15:58 ◼ ► maybe maybe it's okay to like settle into some some new ways and with our newer things that we're both
01:16:05 ◼ ► working on so me and you uh that that we're still in a stage where we can just kind of like establish
01:16:10 ◼ ► how stuff's working yeah and and it is maybe that it's just like not always on worldwide do you know
01:16:17 ◼ ► it's no it's really wild to me as i had the thought the other day you know assuming the rest of this year
01:16:22 ◼ ► goes okay i will have spent my entire 30s being self-employed that just it blew my mind
01:16:43 ◼ ► so i guess that makes it that i'm gonna turn 40 pretty soon it's like a thing that i've not realized
01:16:53 ◼ ► i'm also sooner than i want you know i'm never i'm never gonna say that i'm 40 i'll be like 37 or 38
01:17:04 ◼ ► forever you'll be one of those pull it off yeah i can pull it off you could pull it off yeah yeah
01:17:09 ◼ ► you gotta count backwards and then go up again right so like no you gotta keep people confused you
01:17:16 ◼ ► know with these numbers yeah like keep going up and down right you know people are like oh it's my 36th
01:17:21 ◼ ► birthday to just keep doing it forever you're like you know i'm 38 and then the next year i'm 37 and
01:17:25 ◼ ► then i'm 38 again yeah yeah yeah because this not like that that threshold from 36 to 38 nobody keeps
01:17:33 ◼ ► track nobody cares no one knows like 36 or whatever so i'm just gonna alternate between those three numbers
01:17:40 ◼ ► and whatever yeah legitimately right now i i could not tell you how old i am like i actually don't know
01:17:46 ◼ ► i do not know how old i am does anybody know 38 37 37 i'm 37 i'm 37 37 you were born in 1988 yes 37 yeah
01:17:56 ◼ ► okay yeah and and look i get in all these conversations like i know there are people listening
01:18:01 ◼ ► kind of groaning because they're forced to carry a work phone or like you know oh these guys are just
01:18:07 ◼ ► like learning how the world works like i get it you know we we i get it i understand um yeah but then
01:18:13 ◼ ► they're usually the same people that say like these guys are detached from reality and then we try and
01:18:17 ◼ ► come to your reality and you don't want us there either you know what i mean so like yeah it just
01:18:22 ◼ ► accept us for who we are let us in yeah please what's wrong with you well i think that i think that does it
01:18:30 ◼ ► what a what a journey this episode was we're growing we are we're learning we're sinking contacts
01:18:38 ◼ ► across phones yeah yeah it's wild uh i'd like to thank turbulence forecast for their support of this
01:18:44 ◼ ► episode if you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about they are in your podcast player and
01:18:50 ◼ ► they're also on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 550 i don't know why that number struck me
01:18:57 ◼ ► today it's a big number it's a round number i think that's what it is yeah yeah it's a round number uh
01:19:03 ◼ ► if you have feedback or follow-up there's a link in the show notes or you can go to connectedfeedback.com
01:19:08 ◼ ► let us know your thoughts or if you have follow-up or feedback just drop it there and if you want to
01:19:13 ◼ ► join and get connected pro which is a longer ad-free version of the show that we do each and every week
01:19:19 ◼ ► you can go to get connectedpro.co we talked about it earlier seven bucks a month or seventy dollars a
01:19:25 ◼ ► year it supports us directly which we greatly appreciate and you get lots of goodies from relay our network so
01:19:30 ◼ ► access to a discord a newsletter a couple of members only podcasts it's a lot of fun if you
01:19:37 ◼ ► want more of us in your life uh we're online federico is the editor-in-chief of macstories.net
01:19:42 ◼ ► lots of great stuff going on over at mac stories and um at some point federico before wbc i want to
01:19:50 ◼ ► i just want to put like a flag in the ground of like what you're thinking about a review this year but
01:19:54 ◼ ► maybe maybe we can do that next week because it's coming baby it'll be a pretty short answer but
01:20:00 ◼ ► okay you're doing it no i'm gonna do i gotta do it you know i gotta do it so i don't know if you had
01:20:06 ◼ ► like changes in mind or something you know nah nah i feel like maybe we're having the conversation now
01:20:12 ◼ ► real quick yeah i actually this year it feels like you can't make that decision until wwdc happens because
01:20:17 ◼ ► you have no idea what you're in for right no but i'll do it regardless i've been no you're gonna do
01:20:23 ◼ ► it but like how involved is it gonna be like the answer to that question is quite nebulous right now
01:20:29 ◼ ► because it could be like hey it's a redesigned year and also hey uh now apparently ipad os is mac os you
01:20:37 ◼ ► know what i mean so like yeah yeah or you know uh it's it's a redesign that changes and you're
01:20:46 ◼ ► making screenshots at midnight the night before launch you know oh yeah that sucks anyways uh we
01:20:55 ◼ ► saved ourself a future conversation uh mike hosts many other shows here on relay you can check out his
01:21:00 ◼ ► work at cortex brand mike you've been teasing some new things with cortex brand i'm very excited about
01:21:05 ◼ ► yeah thank you next tuesday it's gonna be great books and then uh you can find my writing at