The Accidental Tech Podcast

104: MinutiƦ

 

  those brief moments of time when I listen to the two of you go back and [TS]

  forth and fermented I'm like man I'm not even here anymore and I feel ever so [TS]

  slightly sad but then I continue to listen to you too going back and forth [TS]

  and I just don't even care anymore cuz I'm entertained as hell we had recently [TS]

  received an email as recently as about two hours ago about how we say to each [TS]

  other or say actually to you the listener please email anyone other than [TS]

  us or please don't send us email etc would you like to talk a little more [TS]

  about this e-mail [TS]

  the first time since I'm a little surprised about your whole email topic [TS]

  now this is already kind of like spreading the topic water because this [TS]

  started with Marco getting specific feedback and bug reports about overcast [TS]

  right but in this sort of expanded into like the entire topic of us getting [TS]

  email and so this feedback is not about Marco and his bug reports really it's [TS]

  really about when we say on the show please don't know about whatever right [TS]

  so I already think this is kind of off-topic missus like it it's related to [TS]

  the discussion but whatever you want to do this not interested in really [TS]

  discussing how marker handle his feedback is more interest in discussing [TS]

  the joke that we do as they please don't send us your email and he says it makes [TS]

  him feel like that we don't appreciate the listeners that you know a good sense [TS]

  here he says he loves us all to show it doesn't make me feel entitled anything I [TS]

  know that obviously and I know that it's possible to get back to everybody but [TS]

  what is it impossible to appreciate your position to appreciate the fact that [TS]

  people devote their time to actually tell you what they think to appreciate [TS]

  that people are the are the ones that are attracting sponsors etc to [TS]

  appreciate that a podcast by nit pickers is going to attract nit pickers to [TS]

  appreciate that so many people really care and I do appreciate you listen to [TS]

  the whole email joke the whole annoyances need to find a respectable it [TS]

  strange off-putting very arrogant and makes me kind of angry and makes my [TS]

  engagement feel pathetic and needy it's really not that hard to say a few nice [TS]

  words you know this I would say that we don't have a [TS]

  ignoring the fact that most of the time were just joking right because Joe could [TS]

  be hurtful to we don't have a blanket ban on an email we don't say a [TS]

  prohibition played in fact we encourage tacitly encouraged email by responding [TS]

  to emails on the show and a lot of the follow-up is about things that people [TS]

  send us the corrections for things are expansions on topics we take real-time [TS]

  feedback and real-time follow-up from the chat room from people saying the [TS]

  same thing right so it's clear that we're not like nobody ever you know [TS]

  anything you know for whatever reason we don't say that I mean there's a feedback [TS]

  form on our site that I made like we have this form on the site that says and [TS]

  feedback if we wanted to not actually receive any feedback we would just take [TS]

  the form now like Marco and providing support he destroyed the feedback so [TS]

  that first of all I was at the premise that the idea that we just are saying we [TS]

  don't want any feedback [TS]

  not that's not our messages all we do very frequently though say please don't [TS]

  email us about whatever topic and that is specifically focused on whatever it [TS]

  was we were talking about so it's like you know I'm I'm going to tell you about [TS]

  this toaster oven I got please don't send me e-mail about slide toasters the [TS]

  reason and then I by saying I know about so I know slide doses exists I know that [TS]

  they're different than toaster ovens I am reviewing toaster oven it's right and [TS]

  there were like and part of that is like the police on email thing is a long [TS]

  running gag for many pockets that we've listened to and been on a fast as you [TS]

  know I'm not contact me it doesn't make much that it's also kind of a joke like [TS]

  God I don't wanna hear most people it is going to tell you about the slightest is [TS]

  right but is very specifically focused on this one thing you did not think [TS]

  please email me ever about anything if you know something cool about new [TS]

  DisplayPort specification yes send email about it if you say I have been an Apple [TS]

  Genius for X number of years and this is my experience and yes send us e-mail by [TS]

  of course we want that email query done the show we appreciate it we appreciate [TS]

  our listeners so I don't want people listening to think I don't think most [TS]

  people do but it's a person does it really that we don't [TS]

  want feedback from anybody it's 50% I'm a joke and the other 50% I'm very [TS]

  focused kind of exasperation at any particular type of feedback that we [TS]

  expect to get because we said something that we know leaves us open to a [TS]

  particular kind of correction and we're trying to say you don't need to send us [TS]

  that correction because we are fully aware that we have either intentionally [TS]

  ignored this thing or whatever right it's it's a wait I use it as a way to [TS]

  preempt getting a whole bunch of emails that begin with well you know and some [TS]

  big argument about something that like I know I think I just said is contentious [TS]

  or I know there is something that other people are gonna tell me about what I [TS]

  just said and I'm just like I don't want to engage the entire discussion right [TS]

  now I don't like it's a way for me to basically try to try to pre-empt getting [TS]

  a whole bunch of duplicate emails telling me something I already know and [TS]

  that says everybody time and that's not to say it's not annoying if you're [TS]

  annoyed by it is totally right to be annoyed but it can be annoying I fully [TS]

  admit that but we are human and we get exasperated sometimes to express that on [TS]

  the show ya so this email was from hell [TS]

  d I'm assuming him in what i'd i'd replied to him or her I'm thinking him [TS]

  and saying what I said was we don't worry we say don't email us either [TS]

  because we really don't care about the minutiae manush a militia [TS]

  all the nuances topic at hand on me about bezel but you're gonna go minutiae [TS]

  and that I was the emails to people not email you about the correct [TS]

  pronunciation of minutiae so pleased that the Supreme abused the privilege to [TS]

  use it anyway let me try this again we we say please don't either because we [TS]

  really don't care about the minutiae of the topic at hand or because we know we [TS]

  won't be able to respond to everyone [TS]

  and actually at that reminded me as we were talking of another piece of [TS]

  follow-up which is I saw a handful of people generally speaking from Europe [TS]

  who seemed confused about the whole toaster oven thing isn't that just the [TS]

  grill and then I realized we had a language barrier between your speakers [TS]

  with someone from the UK are one of the some other thing that Marco can tell us [TS]

  the correct name of dewey maybe just put a you somewhere and it would that make [TS]

  them know what we're talking about a toaster oven now who is great it was [TS]

  great because someone said it's not just the grill and I replied no I didn't look [TS]

  up like where they're from or something but I was confused by and then another [TS]

  person who obviously knows who speaks the variant of English at that person [TS]

  mister speaking tweeted back to them said I think that what you mean by grill [TS]

  isn't what they mean by him [TS]

  language barrier we don't know the words for things but we put links in the show [TS]

  notes right click on them and see what it is it's a thing toaster ovens are [TS]

  things in America anyway and so if you live in one of these barbaric countries [TS]

  that doesn't really have a toaster toaster ovens basically it's like a [TS]

  little tiny oven that can serve either as a toaster or in oven hands toaster [TS]

  oven and they're extremely convenient if you'd like to reheat something [TS]

  especially something brady Heslip being the most obvious example french fries [TS]

  anything like that if you want to eat something bready but you don't wanna do [TS]

  so in the microwave because then it'll end up all gummy toaster oven is a great [TS]

  way to do it now yes you could use a traditional open but why in the world [TS]

  would you start up what is probably multiple square feet of space to heat [TS]

  one slice of pizza or two slices of pizza and so toaster oven is the best of [TS]

  both worlds because big enough for usually a slice of pizza of Spitzer to [TS]

  or it's a toaster big enough for a baby a couple bagels or something like that [TS]

  where an intense it tends to hit up just about as quickly as doing in the [TS]

  microwave for me like if you're gonna mean it's it's not thirty seconds but if [TS]

  you're going to reheat slice of pizza a toaster oven has it done in like two or [TS]

  three minutes at most and so that's its way faster than using a full size [TS]

  nobody should ever put a pizza in a microwave I just wanna say completely [TS]

  agreed but anyway so if you don't know what its host Robin is well perhaps it's [TS]

  time to to move to a different country but nevertheless may be imported or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  nationalized health care or toaster oven toaster ovens I think I might to brand [TS]

  of my toaster oven bread no apparently that's a proprietary eponym see I did [TS]

  remember that the past episode it's pronounced Brazil that that its [TS]

  proprietary Eminem in the UK like Kleenex or whatever and so someone that [TS]

  sharon says a Breville refers to something we would call a grill in the [TS]

  UK percent which so they've taken that tire brand interned in do you know if I [TS]

  for the entire category of things like a panini grill type of thing but maybe [TS]

  that's definitely going but again follow the links mission its show you exactly [TS]

  last week shows yeah we're not gonna put in this week so now it's because it was [TS]

  already there you shoulda click the links kids are for sponsor before we're [TS]

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  glue software dot com slash ATP thanks a lot to a leaper sponsoring our show once [TS]

  again been a longtime sponsor friend Mr show very much thank you we should talk [TS]

  about the photos that that we all thought may have kind of gone away [TS]

  real-time follow up on the Bravo it's not happening it's not a panini press [TS]

  look at the thing I just put in the shower now it's it's the thing like it's [TS]

  like a clamshell thing that closes and has two little compartments for bread [TS]

  like it to be spread and I know the kind of like keeps them from both sides [TS]

  different than the panini press badges on the flat services we deliver rages on [TS]

  this is a common thing like that when they prefer older I've seen them in the [TS]

  USA just don't think many people have them but that's what they call it that's [TS]

  what they call a Breville and if you read the history of the thing that's [TS]

  really i mean I've seen them before but it looking at the chat room it seems [TS]

  like in the UK and Australia everyone has one of these and I cannot think of [TS]

  any one of my friends or family that has won it so it's labeled there as a [TS]

  durable stainless steel Jack filmmakers are those chapel's is that like that's [TS]

  what we call this a try to pronounce that word maybe it's just lay job like [TS]

  waffle so quick aside I was at work this year ago now and somebody was one of my [TS]

  coworkers is talking about doing something in javascript and at one point [TS]

  he said something about just saw and I was like oh my god [TS]

  I think he was saying it you know comically and are ironically whatever [TS]

  but I heard and sure enough JSON [TS]

  my boss used to say it's over it's over that's when you put your age over an [TS]

  item and the nature of her style the links but he was supporting trying to [TS]

  pronounce pronounce that word because you knew that a problem that's true [TS]

  because you never know when that'll go wrong but for the record it's like about [TS]

  them in 20 minutes alright sorry for the derail photos back to ya so let's talk [TS]

  about photos we at all not genuinely be kind of wonder day what happened to [TS]

  photos because somebody pointed out to us that it disappeared from Apple's [TS]

  website well apparently it's back it's back in a big way because it actually in [TS]

  the latest beta now have either of you guys tried but you crazy I was actually [TS]

  gonna try like not on my computer with my actual photos but just just a load [TS]

  the program and throw some sample photos that or whatever but then I realized [TS]

  that I'm pretty sure that you have to upgrade to 10 10 3 beta and I wasn't [TS]

  willing to do that just just a try the photos that I just yet the reason I'm [TS]

  using it it's like I'm not gonna run a date OS on my main computer that's [TS]

  that's not gonna happen I'm very open a lot of time doing stuff like deserve a [TS]

  break I also I feel like this is a good opportunity that I really should take to [TS]

  go back and clean out some of my photo library because there's so much [TS]

  sometimes I'm sure this happens a lot of people go on a trip or something or you [TS]

  know we'll do a shoot with the care of the dog or both or whatever and I'll [TS]

  just dumped all the photos into iPhoto library and then just never really [TS]

  picked them so I have your judgment like 30 gig folder is full of some shooters [TS]

  I'm like that it's like do I do if I just took an hour to go through this I [TS]

  would probably delete 95% of pictures and just keep like the five percent of [TS]

  the best ones that actually want to see again and basically I need to apply that [TS]

  process to like five years of photos I it's like sprinkling I keep meaning to [TS]

  do as a maybe this is like [TS]

  maybe this is my motivation to do it finally do get their problem I used to [TS]

  use iPhoto this was no 34 years ago now and i felt it was nothing but a burden [TS]

  and there's probably a million in seven ways that you can blame that on me and [TS]

  probably million in six of them are correct for whatever reason I just have [TS]

  a workflow that that really worked well for me and what I ended up doing since [TS]

  then is just issuing that's how I pronounce that word right [TS]

  issuing iPhoto altogether this is the axonal pronunciation podcasts and and [TS]

  now what I'm doing is and i think is Bradley chambers learning tool of photo [TS]

  management in combination with some some scripts from Dr drang and so basically [TS]

  what I do is I have all of my pictures renamed consistently and stored [TS]

  consistently my file system and that's as close as I get any sort of [TS]

  organization and I wish I had a better organization system [TS]

  insofar as something where maybe I tagged pictures that I think a really [TS]

  good or a group them into events or what have you the sorts of things that I [TS]

  suspect photos that will be great for but for whatever reason just felt like [TS]

  such a pain in the butt with iPhoto that I never really did it now you have [TS]

  described Mrs before I put them all in iPhoto and then I started them and the [TS]

  only cleaning I really do I'm I tend to be like not want to get rid of pictures [TS]

  of my kids like they're not framed correctly or even if they're a lot of [TS]

  focus sometimes they're so cute and I do is I would you rate them all and when I [TS]

  feel like doing a little cleaning I just show all the ones stars in the ones are [TS]

  basically like you should really delete the lighting is really bad or its blurry [TS]

  or whatever they can I will delete as a look at every picture when they load [TS]

  them into iPhoto like my footer like something you know totally dead [TS]

  but all one-star ones and then when I want to clean it really easy for me to [TS]

  just show a smart album that shows one-star thing they just go through and [TS]

  delete all your pussy then you can't see the ones around them that were better so [TS]

  you can really know which of these do I need to keep a one-star means I mean I [TS]

  can look at the pictures like these are so blurry like they're not not one [TS]

  starring if it's in focus and people are in the front like those never get one [TS]

  star 1 star basically means you should really do want stars thing that most [TS]

  people would delete immediately I just let them stew and if I feel like doing [TS]

  anyhow I i delete all I i think i deleted everyone start my collection of [TS]

  a couple years ago it was a lot of photos at been now I just can't let them [TS]

  build up maybe you're just letting them develop like a Polaroid like figuring [TS]

  maybe it'll get better if I just leave it here for hours and also like a [TS]

  picture that is actually out of focus sometimes we do like family counters for [TS]

  you and you know make the calendar for the year with pictures and everything [TS]

  and had to settle collages we can put the pictures sometimes as little spots [TS]

  on the counter for small photos and even a picture of the two blurry like it's [TS]

  not in focus when you shrink it down to be like one of the small thumbnails kind [TS]

  of an angle on the corner of a counter thing it doesn't actually even look at [TS]

  bad so occasionally that's why I'm kind of keeping the one starter on Orbitz [TS]

  like me trying to see a picture of like what some would have on the shelf in [TS]

  this year where was that thing yeah I wish I wish this system was more [TS]

  intelligent about finding things that I do keyword them but my keywords are [TS]

  limited to like a keyword region my children and then one keyword for me and [TS]

  my wife made us individually and that's about it and the fees they going to do [TS]

  that doesn't faces feature find all the people that you want for you well I [TS]

  start doing it this year existed long before her first and second of all no [TS]

  it's not reliable enough like me manually keyword in them is much more [TS]

  reliable than faces I wish I could turn case officer was grinding away [TS]

  the fans spin up on the MacBook Air to try to take people's faces but that's [TS]

  the same thing I do what I do and start him and basically using the stars a [TS]

  threshold system easily let me sort of get more people are trying to get by [TS]

  cleaning things out but just like just show me three stars or better those of [TS]

  the good pictures there's very few of them something my collection become [TS]

  small and manageable and I want to share photos photostream or you know something [TS]

  to relatives and just show three stars it's super manageable people want their [TS]

  collections actually be like that I can't bring myself to throw up to star [TS]

  ones but the ones that want to delete that good for a second I think so [TS]

  11 thing that we were skeptical of our or hesitant or whatever the right word [TS]

  here is just asked her she was still sick I have a good reason is that we [TS]

  were wondering like you know one of the issues with cloud service back things [TS]

  and and I club stuff in particular is that there's pretty much no visibility [TS]

  into the storage and no recourse if it doesn't increase you like to leave your [TS]

  contact like it's pretty hard to recover from that in a lot of cases for audio [TS]

  services and if you if you have this on your Mac and it has all these files in [TS]

  their local you can back up these files and then hopefully have some way to [TS]

  import them if you had to like nuclear iCloud account and start clean or [TS]

  restore but just after was deleted and it seems really reports that the storage [TS]

  layout of it you can infer things on this and it does leave them where they [TS]

  are not copy them in but by default it seems to maintain a very iPhoto like [TS]

  library structure so that these files are just sitting there as files on your [TS]

  desk all of your photos are there by default it will only be smart strategy [TS]

  leads in the originals or you know catch things online only if you enable the [TS]

  special aglow space mode so you can just have one peter has the whole library on [TS]

  it and has always original sitting there as files and you can always reach import [TS]

  them later so it does seem like it is durable enough in that way to be used as [TS]

  your main photo app at these ones they work out any glaring bugs actually even [TS]

  better than that like we should explain why the experience of this is my photos [TS]

  temperature was an app that Apple had both discontinued both your place but [TS]

  it's a both mediocre [TS]

  functionality wise photos did not include all the functionality of a [TS]

  preacher include the most of the functionality of iPhoto but so this this [TS]

  application is coming into people's lives with the expectation that you've [TS]

  already got all your photos in one of these other applications are in a folder [TS]

  of craps and it handles all those situations like if you have an iPhoto [TS]

  library when you started up it will import that I've our library and it [TS]

  won't actually make duplicates in the files over to make hard links them put a [TS]

  link in the shootout six-mile darlings are basically doesn't take up any more [TS]

  room on your disk but it makes a separate parallel structure of its own [TS]

  at that point your libraries are divorced from each other and if you make [TS]

  changes to either one of them the changes are no longer visible so that [TS]

  it's a one-time kind of import process that doesn't actually take a bit much [TS]

  more disk space but at that point their diverse like they're not kept in sync [TS]

  with each other if you have a powerful pictures that just like you organize [TS]

  yourself you can just start photos up make a new empty library and import [TS]

  those pictures I believe it will copy them and know what happened in that case [TS]

  you can tell it to leave the pictures where they are is a preference kind of [TS]

  guidance preference of copy media into library you can tell it don't move my [TS]

  stuff I have an arrangement folders just just referenced them from where they are [TS]

  and it will do that it will leave them in your next organized folder structure [TS]

  will put a little thing in the app that shows you like oh by the way this [TS]

  picture is in in a library its reference from another location and if you want to [TS]

  work that way which I would totally recommend not doing because it's crazy [TS]

  and you're crazy person [TS]

  application will do that you have put you can organize your photos into little [TS]

  holders by date and name them whatever the heck he won and they just refuse [TS]

  them from the Photos app and continue that crazy workflow where you act as a [TS]

  partisan putting the boulders and then referenced from the application and just [TS]

  like iPhoto you can hold down the option key online chats which among different [TS]

  libraries the only limitation you have is that this is all just like totally [TS]

  local forget about network connection this assault walks totally locally no [TS]

  clouds that involved at all right if you want to do some cloud stuff then you can [TS]

  designate one library as like the system library like the iPhoto the iCloud [TS]

  library [TS]

  one library system can be loud backed up and then you have the choice do I want [TS]

  to keep all the originals on my Mac and then also put them in the cloud or they [TS]

  want to use like whatever called like smarter advanced storage where the sum [TS]

  of the preference says I don't care if they're all on my Mac you can actually [TS]

  take something off on that as long as they're in the cloud that's the second [TS]

  option so this is extremely flexible application that does things in pretty [TS]

  much the smartest way possible given the current policies and technology we have [TS]

  the leaves every person able to do whatever it is that they want with their [TS]

  photos [TS]

  the only bad thing about a transition why's it this absolutely bug in like a [TS]

  racist stuff and destroys your photos and they get lost in the crowd and [TS]

  everything any changes you made after that initial kind of one-time import [TS]

  process will be lost because once you do that import you are now leaving iPhoto [TS]

  behind I suppose you could import your photos into both of them in parallel but [TS]

  then you will actually be duplicating because the one time in part with that [TS]

  with the hard licking stuff doesn't take much more space that's not an ongoing [TS]

  thing so there is a transition points are expected to suspected I try out this [TS]

  program I will try it out and then I don't know maybe just like bailout after [TS]

  importing the couple pictures into an entry import the same things into my [TS]

  photo library like I still have a good transition plan but spec wise the photos [TS]

  application seems like it does all the right things to make everybody except [TS]

  for average users are screwed it will everybody everybody happy except the [TS]

  people who use that picture and will miss all the features that doesn't [TS]

  happen terms of advanced photo editing [TS]

  well the editing controls are actually not that far off this is one of the [TS]

  reasons I'm very excited about this app that the the actual editing process and [TS]

  the controls you have for editing are very advanced and really are pro level [TS]

  editing tools compared to Aperture and Lightroom Lightroom is probably slightly [TS]

  more aggressive certain areas aperture I'm not sure haven't used in a couple of [TS]

  years but it's probably very very closely matches editing tools where [TS]

  where it falls short is in the organizational tools of things like [TS]

  Aperture and Lightroom and especially if you're coming from a picture I think [TS]

  it's gonna be [TS]

  if you're if you really heavily using those organizational systems of faults [TS]

  and all these things like that's most of that is now can transfer over gracefully [TS]

  so that's that's really where are you going to be very rightfully upset but [TS]

  besides that I it looks good I haven't used it yet but it sure looks like the [TS]

  editing and processing of the photos is just as good as a preacher was but they [TS]

  don't have like the interface like doing the pics like that a lot of average was [TS]

  about professional photographers taking lots of photos and then designating the [TS]

  ones I think are good in serving efficient manner like it's not there's [TS]

  no work flow like that as far as I can tell built-in decoders whereas a picture [TS]

  so much of a preacher was focused on you know the editing tools which is one [TS]

  thing and then this whole you know I guess in the balls in the management and [TS]

  then the picking process i fair with a call is that the word they use I think [TS]

  so I might be at a temperature but the average girl like her ability to be way [TS]

  better for what pro's actually do like my my wife TIFF is not going to use the [TS]

  phone as I can already tell you that she's not going to use it she has even [TS]

  Aperture and Lightroom are too heavy headed for her she uses bridge and [TS]

  budget director is the one she does client shoots just want to break into [TS]

  some giant library program and had organized things for like she does it [TS]

  all in the file system with bridge into the pic in that way it works great for [TS]

  most pros are going to have a system like that we're going to use one of [TS]

  these pro apps to do all that organizational and stuff and managing [TS]

  the shoot and managing the picking and all that stuff there I could use a sad [TS]

  but that's fine this isn't made for them this is made for the people like me who [TS]

  and of course everybody else but like people like me who were using aperture [TS]

  and or Lightroom for its advanced editing controls primarily and then [TS]

  secondarily would occasionally took some of these library functions but we were [TS]

  mainly therefore the editing controls that's that's definitely case for me I [TS]

  know it's the case for a lot a lot of people who like bought a solarz in the [TS]

  last eight years and got into photography as a hobby just having the [TS]

  editing controls built into the main photos library mechanism on iOS devices [TS]

  and Max is gonna be awesome because like [TS]

  for all these years we've had to decide between something that's fully [TS]

  integrated into Apple's ecosystem instincts everywhere is all in all the [TS]

  photos pictures all that stuff or has a great editing controls and proof stuff [TS]

  and they were always these things you have to give up you know one way or the [TS]

  other and this looks like it's perfect for people like me many many prosumer [TS]

  who's really interesting ever talk about is not like doing pro photo shoots [TS]

  actually for clients every day on the weekends or whatever Lee this is for us [TS]

  and I'm very much looking forward to meeting and roles like the adding [TS]

  intelligence of the editing charles is really important because they like the [TS]

  default for most photographs including apples with the exception of the magic [TS]

  wand enhance button like to give you one but it's like you don't understand all [TS]

  these crazy controls press the magic wand to maybe we'll make your photos [TS]

  look better or maybe even if you don't like it you like whatever when you're [TS]

  faced with ok well so the magic wand and Mark here's a thousand sliders good luck [TS]

  right and if you don't know how to use those fighters it it's daunting to [TS]

  figure out how to do you know if this million different combinations you tryin [TS]

  like I don't know do I move this and that or whatever [TS]

  also photos has the sort of intelligent thing where they give you sliders [TS]

  they're sort of Medicine lighters that caused the other sliders to move in what [TS]

  it hopes are pleasing way if you like all I that's bad I don't want to be [TS]

  smart move the sliders around I wanna move the actual slightest of the great [TS]

  thing is you can use these these medical trolls that influence the other sliders [TS]

  to try to like most people can do that I would never have thought to put those [TS]

  other side of this position but when I slide stop slide all these other things [TS]

  move around but you still have the ability to edit every single one of the [TS]

  details sliders manually as well so if you want to use the sliders by hand you [TS]

  can but most people have no idea how to get good results with that so they can [TS]

  use those other medicine later so it's a big step up from either magic wand or [TS]

  you're on your own and all these edits are fully synced not not just like [TS]

  burning into a JPEG and thinking that the actual edit states are sick so that [TS]

  you can go on your phone or iPad and make adjustments and that sinks back [TS]

  well in theory I mean let's be serious if this is all based on cloud get so far [TS]

  are clock at stuff has been solid why didn't my contacts think Marco contact [TS]

  us like tiny Saturday and why that's a good question I have no idea my faith [TS]

  I'm ready to be impressed I'm [TS]

  it seems it seems like you know I've heard rumblings and I'm sure everyone's [TS]

  heard these rumblings that like any Q's team took over iCloud something [TS]

  something and was really like revolutionising in fixing stuff like a [TS]

  year ago like that's what all the stuff started allegedly and it seems like [TS]

  Cloud kid and the cloud photo library stuff and all the stuff that came out of [TS]

  that all based on cloud it seems like that is most likely to be the result of [TS]

  that rumor and that we're seeing now like they're doing they're doing good [TS]

  things about stuff like they'd rather than the initial iCloud service stuff [TS]

  which was the documents suffixes you know fairly simple problem separate was [TS]

  done kinda ugly but mostly worked key-value store which works alright and [TS]

  then Core Data Sync which was a disaster [TS]

  you know they they they try to tackle this incredibly complex problem that [TS]

  really can't be done well in the way they attempted to do it and of course so [TS]

  its cloud kid was like we don't have an answer back in the summer league cloud [TS]

  kid is Apple kind of saying okay we're gonna do a cloud service that actually [TS]

  is much easier to do well and they so far seems like they did so I'm pretty [TS]

  confident in in this service probably being good I mean you know we'll see [TS]

  what happens in practice once launched [TS]

  scale and everything we've been using it for a few months but I think it all the [TS]

  pieces seem to be in place for this to actually be good and work pretty well [TS]

  most of the time all the time which is the fact that their dog food yet so [TS]

  heavily i think is a pretty big change from say iCloud with core data recorded [TS]

  with a clever whatever the terminology was the impression I had was a nobody [TS]

  was dog food that but just like you said Marco sounds like apples have lead dog [TS]

  food eating cloud kid in and that's that's definitely a good thing for all [TS]

  of us because I think Apple is fairly tolerant third-party developers having [TS]

  to jump through hoops and fairly intolerant of their own people having to [TS]

  jump through hoops oh yeah that's fair and as far as I know I don't think any [TS]

  Apple app ever used Core Data Sync I'm pretty sure we never found what I needed [TS]

  some people were treated like a strain on Twitter like you know what you're [TS]

  going to be a political uses I don't think we ever found one but anyway I'm [TS]

  confident and also you know I wouldn't necessarily like be honest a logic for [TS]

  aperture because Apple has been a terrible steward of averages since the [TS]

  beginning like it it always had delays issues it was always pretty buggy it [TS]

  always had terrible performance there's a most of all just it would just go [TS]

  years without any major updates and everything was always too little too [TS]

  late it was always getting better soon and never actually great that's why [TS]

  Lightroom does so well because Apple basically said hey we're gonna [TS]

  Apple I think they basically invented the category of apps that work like this [TS]

  basically I think I'm not sure about that please email Casey and then Adobe [TS]

  Lightroom and just ate their lunch because they were generated so much [TS]

  faster and it was so much better you know Apple really dunno aperture was [TS]

  always pretty badly neglected so in a rose-colored glasses and everything I [TS]

  don't think we're going to see people looking back in six months ago I really [TS]

  miss aperture like I think so and for the few who do said I think they're [TS]

  probably gonna be mister rendering it how could it actually was [TS]

  I thought I saw someone might have been Jason snails review but I thought I saw [TS]

  so many it loaded just a crud load images of pictures into the new Photos [TS]

  app and they said you could scroll that thing at a solid 60 frames-per-second [TS]

  like it was nothing I will be excited to see that if that's true that's why I [TS]

  want to try to Mike I've gotta see this shit is so terrible I thought I have [TS]

  maybe thirty forty maybe more than 40,000 photos fifty it may be that the [TS]

  sixties anyway doesn't seem like that big number but i wanna see that's real [TS]

  nicely we also spotted this week by X over each other as the best way I would [TS]

  also however or all of those things however is the best way to biomedical [TS]

  domain names go to hover dot com and you can get 10% off your first purchase by [TS]

  using promo code slot toaster people slot toaster people when you have a [TS]

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  can get started actually working on it and I've mentioned before I guess I [TS]

  haven't if I am working on a new project I I need to find a name first I can't [TS]

  move forward without a name that's like that just block me until I get a name [TS]

  and domain names are the very first thing I go search and whoever is great [TS]

  for that gives you easy to use powerful tools to buy a minute remains so anybody [TS]

  can do it and support team is always ready for you to hand they are known for [TS]

  their no wait no hold no transfer phone service to you when you call a real-life [TS]

  human being is ready to help pick up the phone that said they were at the ready [TS]

  to help you don't put on hold or transfered to anybody that's it pick up [TS]

  and help you it's amazing plus they have a great online tutorials and email [TS]

  support if you hit the phone like me you can find new domain names that you want [TS]

  to get up and running in less than five minutes all you do is type in a few key [TS]

  words and however will show you the best available options across all tlds out [TS]

  there now if you've ever used any other than any other two main house before you [TS]

  know that it can be a pretty unpleasant experience a lot of these different [TS]

  companies make it very complicated by just what you need a try to upsell you [TS]

  with crazy stuff to make you pay extra to upgrade for things that really should [TS]

  be included [TS]

  however does not believe in this kind of approach instead of charging for [TS]

  something that should just be there [TS]

  includes everything you need your domain control panel yet whois privacy always [TS]

  for free and you mean it supports it [TS]

  they even offer this service called the valley transfer service and what they do [TS]

  is if you will let them they will log into your own registrar and do any [TS]

  transfers for you to transfer all your DNS and everything so it's all corrected [TS]

  it very easy to get stuff for all your site's down for a few hours it sucks [TS]

  they will log in and do it for you as you want because some registrars make it [TS]

  pretty difficult to leave and of course they don't they also have this great [TS]

  email service however has great solutions for your own custom email [TS]

  address for your domain [TS]

  20 bucks a year get you a fully functional gmail account and your Domain [TS]

  with 10 gigs of storage you remember wen wen Gmail came out it was one gig was [TS]

  like a 2004 and that was revolutionary to have a gigabyte don't know could ever [TS]

  use that much well we do and have her in our first 10 gigs a year for just 20 [TS]

  bucks now if you need more than that for just $29 a year you can get the big [TS]

  mailbox that she wouldn't call it called big mailbox that gets you a terabyte of [TS]

  storage plus weather nice bonus of $29 a year gets you a mailbox that can hold a [TS]

  terabyte of email which I think sound like my personal hell they even have [TS]

  enough for 25 bucks years you can keep using if you already have an email [TS]

  account somewhere else like that whatever you can keep using that for [TS]

  just five bucks here that will forward your email for your domain to anywhere [TS]

  you want anyway all this is great you can get 10% off your first purchase [TS]

  recover ago another dot-com and use promo code slot toaster people all one [TS]

  word slot toaster people thanks a lot to hover for sponsoring our show once again [TS]

  so there was a little bit of a surprise within the Photos app and some people [TS]

  went spelunking I'm assuming it was Steve Smith is that right Stephen Smith [TS]

  i sorry but that guy and we have day he they someone has discovered you execute [TS]

  it so you ask it appears to be kinda UI kit for the Mac market you want to talk [TS]

  about this little bit yes so it's it's a private framework that is used only by [TS]

  the photos at the moment that Apple shipped with the photos at beta and it [TS]

  appears you know you can't no ones like disassembly I think that you can class [TS]

  dumping you can kind of see just like what classes and methods are contained [TS]

  within it [TS]

  from there to see runtime it's not just for us by the way people say that Xcode [TS]

  6.3 bit also uses that's interesting if that's true I didn't know that it is a [TS]

  tweet from Dunn Mary saying that both easy enough to confirm that interesting [TS]

  well anyway so and what it appears to be is a subset of you I take it to the MAC [TS]

  and so there are things just like it with the UI prefix replaced with you X [TS]

  and so there's things like you know you acting like a UX navigation controller [TS]

  and stuff like that and you know those UX color aux fan all this like normally [TS]

  between you I can the iphone after on the Mac there are a lot of big [TS]

  differences but a lot of also get a little superficial differences like the [TS]

  the prefix for for you I can just you are the perfect record is an S and so [TS]

  you have some classes like you I color and a scholar and UIImage vs and its [TS]

  image and many of these classes that have these like superficial name [TS]

  differences aren't that different or the the Mac version supports some ancient [TS]

  stuff that no one will use anymore so you might use them so there's there's a [TS]

  lot of overlap that seems trivial and that and many people have written will [TS]

  see macros or utility classes to to have a unified code base share some of the [TS]

  scope between iOS and Mac more easily so this appears to be apples apples version [TS]

  of this on this one at in this one team where this is their translation layer to [TS]

  have the same code probably did the same code running on iOS and Mac so the [TS]

  question is is it just this one team is it just a small nap or is this gonna be [TS]

  a more widespread thing is going to become public and is is this going to be [TS]

  the new unified UI framework to the you can share a lot more cookies when I was [TS]

  silence and Mac that's all basically nobody knows anything about perhaps just [TS]

  speculating but that's that's why this is interesting what do you think [TS]

  English had a good point and it's the analogy today came to my daughter as [TS]

  well so [TS]

  setting aside a texaco 6.3 also appears to use it according to the sweet guy [TS]

  pointed out [TS]

  pro-kit that framework remember that yeah the pro apps logic and everything [TS]

  amateur logic what are the other apps that use that maybe maybe shake was not [TS]

  final cut mouth may be fun anyway [TS]

  a whole bunch of Apple's App Store look different like the window chrome was [TS]

  different it was darker and sometimes it was smaller and they had they had their [TS]

  own little weird set of controls and everything they use pro-kit framework [TS]

  which was you know a framework shared among Apple applications that gave a [TS]

  different UI and I mean I simply wasn't just looking at the point is that it was [TS]

  a framework that was not republicans that Apple used on multiple applications [TS]

  that never became the future get rite so the idea that you ask it could just be a [TS]

  thing that Apple uses internally to make it applications this is a completely [TS]

  viable idea it's not crazy to think well now once they did you actually like you [TS]

  could apple also does the opposite day they take frameworks that use them [TS]

  privately for a release or two and then make them public rights and now we can't [TS]

  tell whether this is going to be one of those things that use private incomes [TS]

  public or is it just another probe kit that will Apple used internally to make [TS]

  it slightly easier when it makes it out of its applications but it is not the [TS]

  future of making you i SAT there is some debate around this from smart [TS]

  programmers who are saying like look you really don't want to have the unified [TS]

  framework because the Mac and iOS UI wise are different and the very low [TS]

  level stuff the Foundation Classes that's like the data structures the [TS]

  networking stuff like that that all is unified already and what's namely not is [TS]

  UI stuff and there is a great argument to be made there many people have made [TS]

  that you know that should be separate because like just pouring an iOS app [TS]

  directly to Mac and using a lot of the iOS interface paradigm is like [TS]

  navigation controllers and things like that doesn't really work well in the Mac [TS]

  it's it's really not that kind of a waste of what the Mac is good at and it [TS]

  just kind of feels like you're clicking and iPad app basically things like [TS]

  election views like the fancy I [TS]

  like to use that sort of reflow themselves and you know or even just [TS]

  like a better table of you may know they've approved table you getting rid [TS]

  of an esoteric like those type of things kind of span the range I mean they might [TS]

  still have Wii dpi is like you know touches begin inside so it's like what [TS]

  do you mean like what you have to say is this this framework exists and the class [TS]

  names make you think it's very UIKit like why would Apple bother making this [TS]

  into the photos out the obvious answer to me is the photos for the Mac App [TS]

  looks like voters for iOS right down to assuming out and seeing that John grid [TS]

  of like photos for this month a week or year like it is very clearly a [TS]

  magnification of the iOS totals up so you I was you know ignoring the back end [TS]

  an outsourced photos and everything like that so much it looks much more like hey [TS]

  some imported by US Forest nachman anything like hey someone made a new [TS]

  version of iPhoto like it is it is just so if you had the existing photos output [TS]

  presumably uses you like it and you wanted to make a Mac version of that [TS]

  being able to reuse if not that code correctly then like that code indirectly [TS]

  the structure of the program it would be really convenient to have something like [TS]

  UX get where you can get the benefit of all that you I could code and you know [TS]

  get some semblance of a Mac version up and running faster that doesn't answer [TS]

  the question of why would be used in Xcode but historically Xcode is being [TS]

  used [TS]

  dog food all sorts of weird stuff like garbage collection and what was the [TS]

  other one that it was doctor er think the dog park first anyway that could [TS]

  also just be Xcode dog putting things because if you can experiment with a [TS]

  technology leader in the application that developers to write programs [TS]

  the argument of you should keep them separate is weekend when to start [TS]

  looking at like what what things and I Westwood you not have on the Mac and [TS]

  vice versa and I think that list is actually a lot smaller than than you [TS]

  might expect if you're starting to make this argument and if you if you look [TS]

  like you're having a collection of you that's that's applicable to both sooo [TS]

  many little components UI control UIImageView ImageView UILabel table you [TS]

  text you so many of these things actually like there's not a great [TS]

  argument that they shouldn't be the same on both it's really just a very high [TS]

  level structures the very high level like navigation concepts navigation [TS]

  layouts that kind of stuff should be different both but actually a very small [TS]

  part of you like it in the grand scheme of things and you don't even know if we [TS]

  don't really push new things like there's no reason you couldn't make him [TS]

  a cap that in one of its Windows does a sort of you I navigation controller [TS]

  thing of of pushing a new view on and popping and often I get maybe might be [TS]

  weird but arguably a lot of the existing OS 10 apps do a lot of Iowa see type [TS]

  thing to do and how I think messages has like buttons that are in buttons were [TS]

  just colored text you know I think I played here if I didn't I I meant to [TS]

  like there is like a details but the messages that is not a button and it [TS]

  just blew texted you doing here but people accepted like alright whatever I [TS]

  know when I click that I get details for certain certain interests as an iOS [TS]

  programmer who doesn't know much about the Mac it would make me way more likely [TS]

  to start tackling a Mac App if this was more consistent and I know like if I [TS]

  just dive into the Mac and i really am committed to it I could work through you [TS]

  get pretty well I could figure it out you know that's not like that's not the [TS]

  only reason I'm making him a cap but it would definitely make me a lot more [TS]

  likely to make him a cap and sooner and it would make it a smaller undertaking [TS]

  if a lot of the stuff is unified and instead of having all these little [TS]

  superficial differences something some small and that has to play in somewhat [TS]

  to a decision you make to this like if Apple wants to encourage more Mac apps [TS]

  if they want to you know populate the desolate awful landscape [TS]

  of the Mac App Store which is really sad a lot of a lot of places if they want to [TS]

  help populate that with with more better apps if they want to get more people [TS]

  making Mac apps more people using the Mac for a lot of the stuff they have to [TS]

  make it easier for developers like right now it's all the people who are saying [TS]

  this shouldn't be unified are all longtime Mac programmers longtime iOS [TS]

  programmers I think are very excited about this idea because they're you know [TS]

  we look at the Mac as like well we could go here fairly easily but all this stuff [TS]

  is needlessly different yeah like even if you made the core of your app like oh [TS]

  it's all written in sort of early platform agnostic manner and it doesn't [TS]

  really matter I'm using some framework with some both places like ordinary [TS]

  something that you I part is like he said I go I just noticed but different [TS]

  UI now but I'm not gonna say that the hard part but it's a surprising amount [TS]

  of work and if you have to repeated and keep them in sync and every time you [TS]

  want to add a feature you have to add in both places but totally different code [TS]

  using different APS is just it's a lot of extra work I'm not sure you ask it [TS]

  makes it you know [TS]

  lowers the barrier enough to really move the needle on the Mac App Store has it [TS]

  has other problems you know just so this so few Mac users like I think you have [TS]

  to really make it a little barrier for some of my can address the market like [TS]

  hundreds of millions of iOS devices or like a couple of Mac people like is like [TS]

  250 what you like it so the iPhone is such a monster and that's just one iOS [TS]

  device compared to the Mac right but [TS]

  if this was their goal like their long-term goals like we're going to dogs [TS]

  with this we're gonna see if it's possible because we have a bunch of iOS [TS]

  app so we've decided this is the right way to do photos wu's you mountains to [TS]

  everything is a big thing you put your finger in your cursor over and see you [TS]

  know that the future photos we are you wrote that can we just get the run the [TS]

  Mac well no because XY and Z and well okay so we have a job to do we can use [TS]

  USB framework to be the first people to try to do that but Apple has way more [TS]

  resources to throw toward the successor to iPhoto than the average you know [TS]

  developer with an iOS app you might be thinking about making him a cap so if [TS]

  Apple runs this experiment decides boy this really make sporting much easier [TS]

  than what do they do about it they just say like how how how would they assume [TS]

  that this is accessible experiment inside a plan assumes that the goal of [TS]

  it was see it as something that developers might want for the reasons [TS]

  that Marco stated how does Apple than a WEC announced this as a thing and help [TS]

  like what is the messaging it's like So You Think me right back at if you have [TS]

  an iOS version then look at you excuse you could reuse lot of that same code [TS]

  changing over to capitalize to capitol axes or something but otherwise use at [TS]

  Couture is a message like this is the future of writing that complications it [TS]

  just happens to look like the iOS one but even if you never write an iOS Mac [TS]

  were telling you you should use your Mac apps [TS]

  well I think if they actually unified it it would just be called you like it [TS]

  everywhere but that's the direction they would go today would work from iOS back [TS]

  to the Mac and they would they would just bring over everything named UIKit [TS]

  that makes sense to have and also you know one of the things they would have [TS]

  here is right now they're maintaining two different frameworks their meanings [TS]

  to different UI libraries and and after it is very very old and there's a lot of [TS]

  Crofton there from the olden days you like it was like kind of like a rewrite [TS]

  of app for the iPhone and to be more modern into Bmore in a more efficient [TS]

  and [TS]

  have all these new capabilities and be simpler in a lot of ways UI kit is like [TS]

  it is the rethink of activities the rewrite about it they just didn't [TS]

  replace it with a quite yet they were going to call you I could everywhere [TS]

  that is not comment because like the code is not the same like he led to [TS]

  believe is more or less just a wraparound existing to begin with and [TS]

  maybe they would like that out later but I don't think you can pull it up as you [TS]

  have to maintain support bracket prolong the future right so linking against the [TS]

  they called it [TS]

  UIKit you couldn't linking against framework if like if one set of code is [TS]

  like the native code for the iOS devices in another set of code is the the [TS]

  wraparound a kid I don't know how you could do that with the same name it [TS]

  seems like it like that the reason the exit there like it just doesn't make [TS]

  sense to me like every time it's not going to be a single unified code base [TS]

  is going to be two separate code bases and two separate code bases with the [TS]

  same name and to plan and I suppose you could put up his best to Kaiser in [TS]

  different folders you know this is the iOS SDK and the cable guy just looks [TS]

  like looking at documentation for like surely they will be differences so I [TS]

  don't like messaging wise though that's what we'll get those after the next [TS]

  month but that is a weird message at like at kit we've been evolving and [TS]

  improving for a long time but now you know it's like i was wonder that when [TS]

  they bought next like how long the NSP fix what I want to do they keep the ANS [TS]

  prefix and everything is kind of weird and its next step like water off one [TS]

  glass of NSB tons of people just starting out programming for the Mac [TS]

  wondering what that was described as about but it's held on for a [TS]

  surprisingly long time right and [TS]

  you know they get out from under and they are right this is the new thing we [TS]

  call it [TS]

  UX kiddin maybe in the future of a unified before now we have you are [TS]

  getting your ex kid and I still think they were there will be stuck [TS]

  maintaining three things at a packet on top of a kid and you like it like so it [TS]

  wouldn't be maybe long-term its unification but i dont the messaging [TS]

  just seems weird to me that's fair but maintenance the message and I'll think [TS]

  that matter I mean look they have two languages now well but one of them is [TS]

  one of them is clearly a successor to the other belongings and by the way a [TS]

  lot of people are speculating that UX kid might be swift lonelier swift native [TS]

  I think I think we can already tell it's not just by inspecting the the file [TS]

  everything but if you look at the the timing of this put the Photos app was [TS]

  introduced at the same time as with beta 1 when Swift beta one was announced at [TS]

  the BBC last year [TS]

  very few people inside Apple had even used it yet so I think it's extremely [TS]

  unlikely if there's any swift code in the photos as well there's probably some [TS]

  that's the way they would but I don't think it's written from the ground up in [TS]

  sweats and I think you're right to like this is a directive see framework which [TS]

  is you can call through to the objectives the remarks on that half of [TS]

  the stuff they did him Swift 1.2 which team talked about with making it less [TS]

  painful less awkward to interoperate between certain objective seized up by [TS]

  adding annotations the markup and a boy missing is marking up with all his own [TS]

  objectives CBI's with all these annotations the mean nothing to [TS]

  Objective C but totally let you know how it needs to write the data quest to be [TS]

  exactly and I think that's that's the biggest as anything that like Objective [TS]

  C is not going to go away like two years from now this is gonna be a very [TS]

  long-term replacement it's in right now look look at how many Apple classes are [TS]

  still using C++ as there has so many people that I don't think we have to [TS]

  worry anytime soon the difference is gonna be just ended well I mean like you [TS]

  could be ended in the in the sense that they tell you when you're writing your [TS]

  application the only code you ever I dismissed because you could get away [TS]

  with that it's like I'm not limit [TS]

  I can call the existing frameworks and API's I can call them all from right and [TS]

  I can do weird seats last up to ISO you could say third-party developers if [TS]

  you're starting a fresh new application in opening a new project in Xcode right [TS]

  all your code swift and you'll be fine like they're not yet but that's like the [TS]

  way they want to get on that point to come way before she goes that's going to [TS]

  take forever like the actual people at Apple again running ejector seat for a [TS]

  long time but they could be telling all third-party developers we would like it [TS]

  you just read all your code in swift and you won't be limited in which API's you [TS]

  like the idea I guess with only a native API what's the selling point of that [TS]

  other than like it [TS]

  ideological purity a disappointment and even in the near future I don't you know [TS]

  surely that they will come but unless there's some big advantage in terms of [TS]

  speed or interface it's going to be difficult to justify bigger than you be [TS]

  cutting off all the people of existing Objective C at a lot of them yet and yes [TS]

  I would I would not expect a swift exclusive API for anything important to [TS]

  be available in the next two years at least I mean I think it'll be awhile [TS]

  likes to move fast they like to like it sooner than I expected I didn't think [TS]

  you know and that they will probably do something important when they decide to [TS]

  do it but it seems like it's just way too soon now so it probably means that [TS]

  whatever your esther was two years like maybe cut that in half like they had no [TS]

  prizes for its like you know the way the herd everybody into whatever new thing [TS]

  they want to do is like the new hotness is only available with X [TS]

  and yeah but none of his first of all not necessarily on this level of the [TS]

  language level of what you're doing with the API level not necessarily on that [TS]

  level and also I think the last time they did that like with what was it with [TS]

  carbon let me do that now that the best example i think is how you can't build [TS]

  applications for older versions with the newest version of Xcode they want to [TS]

  push everybody the newest version of Xcode and that's why people have to keep [TS]

  at seven bridges road running an old machines like they're like you can't [TS]

  even target you know Snow Leopard anymore with this thing like they [TS]

  they're pushing people up there [TS]

  OS support change forcibly by saying look here and add that this is the only [TS]

  way you can develop for the iPhone 5 but you can't developer Snow Leopard with it [TS]

  so you know those people keeping the GMC Engine version of Xcode availed SDKs [TS]

  that Apple aggressively pushing people way too fast like way soon as people are [TS]

  running p.m. with over 20 yd you know you're going to that that is a very [TS]

  common thing that people to yeah actually a lot of developers need to do [TS]

  that I think it'll be sooner I tend to come down on this closer john's point of [TS]

  view the marcos I think the push to Swift is going to be more aggressive in [TS]

  sooner than any of us expect I think I'm on the edge I almost want to say [TS]

  something will be swift specific or this year maybe at the end of the year I [TS]

  think perhaps it's more reasonable to say sometime in 2016 but I think it'll [TS]

  be soon be really soon and certainly Swift is making some some really [TS]

  significant steps and doing so very quickly when I keep thinking is the dose [TS]

  which is supposed to make a lot of the dangers of Objective C go away and that [TS]

  that that of course causing a lot of drama but maybe doubt in the community [TS]

  especially amongst those who have worked with ejector seat for a long time but I [TS]

  think I think that if if swift prevents really silly programming errors and if [TS]

  it's a little more stable eventually and it runs faster eventually it's in [TS]

  Apple's best interest push everyone that direction and and I think they will and [TS]

  I think they'll do so real [TS]

  aggressively yeah but I think most the drama is already really fizzling out and [TS]

  I think you know it's it's only a matter it's only a couple more sleep provisions [TS]

  I mean look at how much they did at one point it was a pretty substantial [TS]

  upgrade in a lot of ways and I don't even use yet but i can tell just by [TS]

  looking at what they changed and other people's reactions to its a pretty [TS]

  substantial upgrade I read a bunch of these blog posts lately switched our big [TS]

  project too swift we built a big project in swift and here's how it went and an [TS]

  overall it seems to be people are kind of mostly ok with the language itself [TS]

  with a few minor minor differences here and there but most things itself but [TS]

  they have complained that the tools are are immature still that's working itself [TS]

  out pretty quickly really I mean like they had a compilation which was [TS]

  probably the biggest complaint in its absence before you know it in less than [TS]

  a year Apple has already eliminated almost everyone they've limited most [TS]

  major there's still some minor complaints and there's still some people [TS]

  who really objective certain things about it that will never change but for [TS]

  the most part they've they've already addressed many many good complaints [TS]

  about it in less than a year and then moving really fast like they're making [TS]

  big big breaking changes almost so much like it's frustrating like reading the [TS]

  documentation for the language and trying to learn the language just at the [TS]

  point you think you're actually learning things they change it I just learned how [TS]

  are totally different again and like they don't do it like in mind there are [TS]

  minor with big fundamental just wait until they had exceptions and regular [TS]

  expressions people's brains gonna explode right this is why I haven't [TS]

  learned it yet this language is moving fast and just 1.2 was a big change like [TS]

  well I program got five times faster and I didn't change anything and you know my [TS]

  compiled times it like it's still super young think it's probably still super [TS]

  buggy and they've got a long way to go but like I think the inclination to [TS]

  think well its young now and there's these big changes but the rate of change [TS]

  will slow down I expected to like to not slow down to make people uncomfortable [TS]

  with the amount that it doesn't slow down the next couple of years like [TS]

  certain point it's going to be kind of like you know the change your teeth with [TS]

  the OS like alright already like my annoyances with whatever features and [TS]

  swift are now dwarfed by my noise that you keep changing the language we [TS]

  understand you could hear addressing all of our problems in trying to make things [TS]

  better than I just wanted to be stable so I can write some code be like [TS]

  actually know the language that's that's going to happen in like eight months if [TS]

  they keep up this pace yeah hopefully I mean the guy you know I said like last [TS]

  year I was gonna wait about a year before even looked at it and so far [TS]

  that's that's working out very well I can see in passing other making all [TS]

  these big changes but I have no investment in it I i haven't even read [TS]

  the the apples with book hitting the books for free I have you read that it's [TS]

  because every page of it has changed [TS]

  kinda like and so I'd rather just wait until it settles down at least most of [TS]

  the way and I would expect within the next couple years I think it will be [TS]

  pretty stable even in a year from now I think the reason I think it'll ever [TS]

  released a list like built into his language is the idea that the language [TS]

  and backward there's no backwards compatibility their entire path forward [TS]

  we'll see how this works is that like the idea is going to update your source [TS]

  code like they're not going to support with 1.0 1.1 wonder you know like the [TS]

  source like I wrote this in swift 1.0 and I'm gonna be able to compile an [TS]

  Xcode 9 many years and I know you won't know you can do about it now but their [TS]

  whole strategy is sourced compatibility forget I mean maybe they'll change their [TS]

  policy like that's when it comes to the maturing point is that ok now the new [TS]

  policy is actually respect the same source code require you to like you know [TS]

  you sorry factoring tools to upgrade to send texts but they're not in that phase [TS]

  yet they were in the phase it says we told you were gonna break syntex [TS]

  compatibility we are going to we're never going to compile years [TS]

  1.0 and Wednesday anymore so just get used to it but our greatest with 1.2 and [TS]

  by the way 1.3 will do the same thing to you [TS]

  our final budget this week is automatic your smart driving system on your [TS]

  smartphone automatic dot com slash ATP so automatic is a little darling plugs [TS]

  into your car's obd2 port is the same port the user at the mechanics are the [TS]

  dealers with a check for error codes it's usually in the driver's footwell [TS]

  automatic plugs into that and so all the information that the dealers can get and [TS]

  the mechanics can get out of your car automatically get a smartphone app that [TS]

  integrates with this and does cool stuff so one thing it does so whether this [TS]

  works on iPhones and Android phones which is pretty great and it can show [TS]

  you by combining the smarts in your car with the smarts in your phone it shows [TS]

  you things like where you've driven and how efficiently you drive give you [TS]

  feedback on your driving in real time they can save hundreds of dollars a year [TS]

  on gas they can even call emergency services for free in a serious crash so [TS]

  if your car if your car crashes and your phone you know is that all workable it [TS]

  can use your phone to call emergency services for you just can't really [TS]

  seriously you know be a better fit here [TS]

  automatic also conducting any check engine light codes so because it's an [TS]

  airport that all the mechanic use if there's any kind of area code that [TS]

  causes the check the check engine light to come on the car will act in the car [TS]

  has a lower level error code than that it's just not showing you could you just [TS]

  lacks the display for that that's why she says check engine but usually [TS]

  there's some lower-level could a lot of those codes are really obvious things [TS]

  that you can fix things like the gas cap isn't sealed all the way you know stuff [TS]

  like that you can just fix it yourself or you know minor parts spots you can do [TS]

  you know you can go to a mechanic instead of going all the way to the [TS]

  dealer paid all this money so it can save you lots of money but check engine [TS]

  light codes it can give you lots of money saving on gas called emergency [TS]

  services for free in a crash and it even has little useful things like party [TS]

  reminders again it's combining your car with your phone so it knows where you [TS]

  parked and you can use the log cabin your phone to go find your car again [TS]

  even if integration with a few different things so they integrate with the Nest [TS]

  Learning Thermostat so for example if you're going if your headed home and [TS]

  nest has you in a way modes your house is cold in the winter [TS]

  automatic knows you're getting close to your home so it will tell the next term [TS]

  he dog [TS]

  and so then by the time you get home your house is nice and warm for your [TS]

  arrival and even if you don't have a nest they have integration with ifttt if [TS]

  this than that so what that integration you can integrate countless other online [TS]

  services with your automatic device so it's really great that is also an API [TS]

  you can download driving data you can subscribe to events when you start and [TS]

  stop the car when you when your check engine light comes on etcetera as a [TS]

  whole epi for use whatever you want and if you have an Android phone even have a [TS]

  feature called do not disturb mode so that if you want you can have it [TS]

  automatically mute your phone like buzzing or beeping while you're driving [TS]

  so you don't get distracted by the notifications of great stuff here [TS]

  automatic dot com slash ATP and this is normally about a hundred bucks is no [TS]

  subscription fees this is one time up front just a hundred bucks there is no [TS]

  monthly fee you can buy the device that's it [TS]

  now there's a special offer for the podcast listeners 20% off so are you [TS]

  guys going I dot com slash ATP it's just 80 bucks twice 20% off so just 80 bucks [TS]

  free shipping in just two business days and have a 45 day return policy this is [TS]

  really risk-free fantastic deal 80 bucks free shipping in two days at a 45 day [TS]

  return policy [TS]

  automatic dot com slash ATP thanks a lot in speaking of different way is already [TS]

  a user interfaces a couple of things have happened over the last weeks or [TS]

  months that listeners have asked us to talk about and first actually might have [TS]

  been a year ago now is a seng display kit do you want to tell us about that [TS]

  john yeah I was talking about you execute has like the idea of his [TS]

  successor to a kidnapping has this crafted you like it you know learn [TS]

  format get into things better which is why it seems nice to do things you like [TS]

  it but it is a nap get everything [TS]

  and display kit and topically director about react reactive rather point to [TS]

  sort of a larger leap above the both the apt in the UIKit paradigm particularly [TS]

  having to do with the requirements that certain things only be done on the main [TS]

  thread laying out the UI drawing there some acceptance of that or you can try [TS]

  to some of those things off the main thread but generally that leads to [TS]

  sadness know what you doing and that's a limitation kind of built into the [TS]

  framework a framework that if you trace its lineage through you know step in [TS]

  next step could go way back in time [TS]

  made sense when you didn't have a multi-core CPU in your little hand-held [TS]

  crazy phone not symmetric multiprocessing was barely people's eyes [TS]

  back then forget about these 12 core CPUs and everything like that but the [TS]

  reality is that we do have a multicore and everything and even if you just [TS]

  offload some of that work to another Corey can be a big dent benefit so I [TS]

  think this lake is a thing I think Facebook made for like its applications [TS]

  that paper application where they wanted to lay out calculations just baseman [TS]

  matt Asay how wide is this how much is it gonna take a bottle blah and they [TS]

  wanted to do it in parallel not on the main threat because they didn't want to [TS]

  block the main thread they want the main threat to be available to pick up events [TS]

  and process them and make the UI reactive printed anything and so amazing [TS]

  display kit which is a thing on top of a packet that lets you do you i'd [TS]

  calculations the end asynchronously and possibly in parallel and other threads [TS]

  and then do it in a nice way so that the actual addy gets done on the main threat [TS]

  as it has to work with the thing but you can actually do the calculations [TS]

  elsewhere and that's what makes me look at you X didn't think like this can't [TS]

  really be the future of anything it seems like an interim step because [TS]

  I would want to see a leap like you like it wasn't a step up from a tip it was [TS]

  kind of like more like a cleaned up after you put it didn't it didn't [TS]

  revisit some fundamental assumptions in light of the hardware realities that we [TS]

  have today and I think something like something been incorporated something [TS]

  like icing display get into the fabric of the framework would be much better [TS]

  than someone taking a bitter UIKit and layering another framework on top of the [TS]

  dolls stuffed other threats yessuey Singh display kit was most gained most [TS]

  of its fame I guess from paper which was is an app that Facebook wrote as a kind [TS]

  of alternative to their traditional Facebook app and it's actually the app [TS]

  that I used my phone because it's freaking supports sending messages which [TS]

  is nice to have a separate app for that anyway it's very pretty and the [TS]

  animations are very cool and it's very nice and that indexing to spike it [TS]

  powers it now [TS]

  lately Facebook has taken a different purpose react native is Facebook making [TS]

  that up here right now I will just assume I'm right why not email me and [TS]

  tell me if I'm wrong anyway so you react native is also my Facebook and react [TS]

  originated as at least to my knowledge as a javascript front-end framework kind [TS]

  of sort of but not really tall like angular and then somebody facebook said [TS]

  well you know what we could do something on the natives side with this in so [TS]

  there's an unbelievably good video that then I had seen by way any material Shaq [TS]

  who has been coming up a lot lately on the show and it's it's an overview by [TS]

  one of the developers of react native at Facebook talking about how it works and [TS]

  kind of what it does and I have watched it for a week or two since the one ever [TS]

  came out and so i i cant really get into specifics because all steers into a [TS]

  black hole of in correctness [TS]

  but some of the stuff that it does was just unreal including being able to mess [TS]

  about with your UI without doing another built in so you can have your app [TS]

  running in the simulator or around with some stuff in Xcode and it will refresh [TS]

  itself in the simulator without recompiling and additionally you could [TS]

  actually connect chrome you the app the running out publicly talked about I [TS]

  think last episode with with web use but this is the web you this is all real [TS]

  honest-to-goodness needed stuff and so you can connect chrome may have some [TS]

  sort of interpreter connector whatever you can connect chrome to your native [TS]

  app running react native in go inspecting it kind of like what was the [TS]

  third party thing that got Sherlock this year [TS]

  thinking of the things that exploded views but yet so it's kinda somewhere to [TS]

  that end I guess I haven't played with it yet but just watching this half an [TS]

  hour video my mind exploded probably fifteen times reveal thank you [TS]

  chat room it was revealed that i was thinkin thank you [TS]

  person in the chatroom arias she that's totally wrong anyway this video is [TS]

  really really incredible and and Marcos special scenes nevermind so you're in my [TS]

  defense I did spend all day today making the making of a good program so I I was [TS]

  in this century ok well that's good I would like to hear about that if we have [TS]

  time but John what are your thoughts on this react needed thing have you don't [TS]

  react the JavaScript framework at all I retweeted it thing from making joke like [TS]

  a sign that the W three see it was one of those [TS]

  there have been blank days since the new JavaScript framework ahead 0 like I'm [TS]

  pretty sure I know reactors and it seemed like the jobs corporation for web [TS]

  applications you can correct me if I'm wrong case against you watch the thing [TS]

  is I have not yet the reactors the one where they do [TS]

  where they have all is that the one where they have like the DOM sort of as [TS]

  a structure not actually connected to the dominate your differing against the [TS]

  to figure out what actually needs to be updated in that ends up being faster [TS]

  it's like yep it's one of those crazy solutions that has to do with it it's [TS]

  not shattered on crystal separate thing and web components are related but it's [TS]

  like you would think it would be so much slower to build these parallel [TS]

  structures in memory that aren't that dumb and then figure out what the [TS]

  changes are by differing it again something else and then and then only at [TS]

  the end after you've done this crazy dipping thing and just add memory [TS]

  structures that have no connection to the browser do you say now finally I [TS]

  know what I have to update in the damn you do the minimal but updating the [TS]

  dumbest so damn slow the doing the differing ends up being way faster than [TS]

  doing it like you know direct way it's worth pointing out also the football [TS]

  thing and on this topic for Flipboard came out it was yesterday and the day [TS]

  before is very recent and they they launched a web version and in their [TS]

  engineering department posted this whole thing how they're basically doing a a [TS]

  react like differing system in the middle of this whole system rather [TS]

  basically he rewrote part of WebKit that just runs on a canvas [TS]

  it's a very small part but still make on a web version but scarecrows around the [TS]

  web because once your entire just a big canvas tag but you draw stuff in with [TS]

  your own framework like yeah I guess that's the web like you've just [TS]

  reinvented ActiveX controls like you know that that's terrible it's really [TS]

  insulting or not it's a difference if we start with the / like the web is we know [TS]

  that the web is and anything that is a rectangle in a web page in which some of [TS]

  the program runs is not the web and canvases like the borderline of like [TS]

  well is that the web is it like you've written you know yes you have a nice [TS]

  display larry and you could do everything yourself and they're not [TS]

  they're doing everything else would like to point out in terms of like [TS]

  accessibility of a canvas native application like unless you're signing [TS]

  up to [TS]

  re-employment you know you like it around with all the accessibility things [TS]

  that are inherent there and support for it strikes me a lot as a big rectangle [TS]

  webpage whether things happen which may be fine for Flipboard but I don't think [TS]

  it's that's right but the act is more like I'm we're going to take the web as [TS]

  it exists just going to find out a nicer way for you to write application fees [TS]

  for what they think it's a nice way to react as some weird stuff going on you [TS]

  know they they violated they sort of sacrifice a lot of sacred cows they're [TS]

  the big things I think also where they like UNIX JavaScript handlers in line [TS]

  with these fake things look like tags but really aren't in freaks people out [TS]

  by the looks like you're doing like the old style on mouseover Eagles whatever [TS]

  but you're not really because that's not actually da markup is just a way to [TS]

  communicate with their like there's a lot of weird things about react but i [TS]

  think thats all beside the point because I think the important part of it is the [TS]

  different model and it's a very different model frap continue like it [TS]

  how to make a GUI applications and it's like well it that's for the web the web [TS]

  so different than native it has to be different than react native is like but [TS]

  if we take that same model and apply it to native things does that work is [TS]

  actually better than using you I get around it and some people apparently [TS]

  think it is i think the jury's still out on this new paradigm is the way to go [TS]

  but I think this combined with a display kit show two different potentially [TS]

  complementary approaches that are that show that are so different from getting [TS]

  UIKit and UX get that it's like it makes you I continued acts get a napkin look [TS]

  like Objective C 2.0 and it makes these things look like potentially swift or [TS]

  something like it I just feel like there's a bigger lead to be had and I [TS]

  would recommend an apple not invest some huge amount of time unit making pushing [TS]

  some unified you I could you acted type of thing for the future because that [TS]

  transition will take a long time and you don't know what you've got is basically [TS]

  now everything is as good as you like it and you like it may be nice to not get [TS]

  in important ways but it is not sort of a largely it's not as big a leap [TS]

  potentially as big a leap as swift potentially is over Objective C like I'm [TS]

  looking for the next big step as a refinement you have now make appt get [TS]

  better as you've been doing the Qik better [TS]

  as you've been doing and get busy working on whatever the next big thing [TS]

  is and if it's something like react made of fine if it's something that [TS]

  incorporates the ideas are facing display it on if you think you can [TS]

  retrofit those WI kit and a ticket and let people do more things off the main [TS]

  thread maybe try that too but you know and like I said this is my next couple [TS]

  in 2010 type of thing but I do look at other frameworks and I'm not convinced [TS]

  that they're the future but they look different enough from the president that [TS]

  I'm interested in potential ideas for the future [TS]

  yeah I agree I think if you're totally right that like if you're going to make [TS]

  everyone do a big transition if there is this other thing that has come up like [TS]

  you know in computer science you type circles and everyone thinks this is a [TS]

  really great idea and it turns out of practice to really be really great idea [TS]

  it is definitely worth considering like you know he is it worth like if you're [TS]

  gonna for people to go through a transition to make a bigger leap like [TS]

  swift you know it's not even like computer science you like just [TS]

  recognizing the hardware hardware so different now [TS]

  frameworks we have are not a good match for everything being multicore because [TS]

  it because of the main threat constraints and GCD helps that a lot [TS]

  like he does help it for you I code it doesn't help things like certain things [TS]

  you only you have to do on the main thread or bad things happen and so [TS]

  that's like the basics like it it's like we're going to hang around that [TS]

  limitation of Apple's frameworks and say you just sit there will actually do the [TS]

  UI updates on the main thread but we're going to do a whole bunch other math [TS]

  over here in our sort of play world and saying the reactor sort of play World of [TS]

  this is not the UI but this is our little fake model of the UI so we can [TS]

  actually take advantage of parallel processing and then we'll get back to [TS]

  you with I actually you are now your actual done please do this change and [TS]

  that is that is happy and clever but it shows that the current frameworks are [TS]

  just not a good fit for current hardware will I think the multi-core hardware [TS]

  rendering and main thread thing is kind of red herring it like in practice the [TS]

  reason why a lot of a lot of you know you I code now is tricky to write is not [TS]

  because drawn calls have to have a threat it it's because [TS]

  she's declared a versus procedural whatever that it's a different paradigm [TS]

  say it's not that it's tricky to rate is just that it's just like if you if you [TS]

  have performance concerns like you want you wanna treat tomorrow at the game [TS]

  ended where it's like if you're gonna do anything like you have to be done [TS]

  because I had to pull the next event all you need to do you need to leave the [TS]

  main threat alone do not let the whole thing and BCD stop blocking the main [TS]

  threat for crying out loud I don't care what you have to do get like get in get [TS]

  out I need to get the next event because it would feel if it's everyone its [TS]

  chrome it's super bad and that's why I think this place at the school [TS]

  you know the devices they have is like so you gonna show Big Bang great [TS]

  advantages and they're coming from the internet you can't wait to get all those [TS]

  downloaded to figure out what size there so you can lay it out will take forever [TS]

  so there's like this procedural thing like will download super low res [TS]

  versions of those and asynchronously bring in the higher res version just so [TS]

  you can get a scrollable correctly laid out thing as soon as possible so you can [TS]

  start scrolling it that's the type of thing that's very difficult to do with [TS]

  the existing framework with its like they don't expect sort of asynchronous [TS]

  updates all this to all these features it should be easier than it is and it's [TS]

  not it's not because of like a declared every procedure that's part of it and [TS]

  you could say I would be easier if I could describe IUI in this way instead [TS]

  of writing a bunch of code to make my UI in this way but it's like four large [TS]

  grids with lots of things on them I don't want to block the main thread with [TS]

  it or not I don't want my main threat to be blocked if and is really large for [TS]

  something that performances depends on the number of item yet but i i think [TS]

  it's it's more you know the GCD we can already stepped off the main thread come [TS]

  back later like it's it's more of a paradigm shift it's it's not it's not [TS]

  that like the API's have to happen on his main threat it's that like the [TS]

  paradigm for how you update the UI like [TS]

  react does it like if you look like I don't know react so whenever I see [TS]

  snippets of react code it just breaks my mind I like i'm looking at it on my god [TS]

  this is totally like backwards inside-out upside down and in French [TS]

  like aids like I was so it looks so foreign to me it's so different from [TS]

  what I'm used to [TS]

  yet so let me jump in here so one of the links is [TS]

  that we're gonna put on the show notes while reacting need of matters in this [TS]

  is by Josh Alper I'm guessing that's just cheaper anyway he says right now we [TS]

  write you eyes by poking at them manually newt eating their properties [TS]

  when something changes and removing views etc [TS]

  this is fragile and error-prone some tools exist to lessen the pain the pain [TS]

  but they can only go so far wiser big mess immutable stateful bags of sadness [TS]

  react let's describe are you eyes for a given state and then it does the hard [TS]

  work of figuring out what needs to change it abstracts all the fragile [TS]

  error-prone code out away from us we describe what we want react figures out [TS]

  how to accomplish it [TS]

  you eyes become composable immutable stateless value types react native is [TS]

  fantastic news and that's building it's Josh abernathy I'm sorry that's building [TS]

  on what you were saying mark over this is just a whole different model of how [TS]

  you interact with user interfaces and it makes a lot of sense maybe the [TS]

  particulars are a little bit wonky and I'll concede that but the premise of [TS]

  really this is just moving from one concrete state to another and it should [TS]

  just be a finite state machine hopefully in theory that is a really cool premise [TS]

  in in building on that I'm going back to India to Shaq he tweeted a few days ago [TS]

  finally show notes I say with confidence as a former UIKit author reacts model [TS]

  for the UI layer is vastly better than you I kids react native is a huge deal [TS]

  in another tweet they've just gotta figure out the interaction in animation [TS]

  pieces [TS]

  and so he goes on just briefly to all AskMe what's react filter bubble danger [TS]

  you must watch the broader development landscape don't get trapped in one [TS]

  platform and I think that's that's a really good call and this is something [TS]

  very interesting that's that's influence from the from a web framework coming [TS]

  into native and it's making some real making some really interesting moves and [TS]

  I and I wouldn't be surprised if something along these lines gets adopted [TS]

  by Apple in the same way something online to reveal which isn't an [TS]

  apples-to-apples comparison but reveals how to sherlock didn't surprise me they [TS]

  took a very similar spiritual approach to whatever replaces you are you kidding [TS]

  me and our kids eventually one day maybe because you know react I mean it's it's [TS]

  making big waves and it's it's making waves with a lot of the people who [TS]

  matter it's people like and people people who who are developing his [TS]

  framework people who are in important positions or where or no people or those [TS]

  are the new people in those positions do these are making big waves I've heard so [TS]

  much but react every JavaScript framework out there besides reacted come [TS]

  out in the last decade I hear nothing about because I don't care [TS]

  react make bigger of waves that I keep hearing about it like I don't know [TS]

  anything about anger is like a million different levels of factories and I know [TS]

  area let you know those those are confined to the clients I react is [TS]

  coming over to the natives I think need to tie this together with display it was [TS]

  like you know we're talking in two different things like I was not talking [TS]

  about anything just like it but the performance concerns and your dog [TS]

  reacted the paradigm think they're connected though because reacts [TS]

  functional thing we're like it you know you operate on state and its value type [TS]

  thing that sort of you know lack of side effects were used in operating your [TS]

  arguments return a value in it and everything is sort of you know just [TS]

  value type [TS]

  was something you thought it was well that allows you to paralyze the things [TS]

  you don't have side effects if you're not it is not just one giant big balls [TS]

  mutable state that you can only update 132 time otherwise you get crazy [TS]

  conflicts that's what one of the many things that I that get to its current [TS]

  paradigm react said you know reactivated display connected because he views the [TS]

  reactor model it doesn't matter what three mutations are you could do the [TS]

  mall in parallel the same thing like that their side effect read their peer [TS]

  functional and so it lends itself to that type of modeling as opposed to the [TS]

  current model but we had this one thing it is the state of the UI be super [TS]

  careful with it and go back to OKC you said like I it is not past Apple to [TS]

  steal good ideas they do it all the time and if something is making this big wave [TS]

  and apples engineers and top people again if Apple thinks it's a good idea [TS]

  they will do it or they will do something similar to it you know some of [TS]

  this is that this is a pretty big deal to change your entire UI API paradigm or [TS]

  to add a new one is a major deal and this you know this is a significant [TS]

  happen in a year this is this is a big undertaking it would have to be a skunk [TS]

  works but I think that the exciting thing about swift yeah it was but it was [TS]

  essentially one guy who won very powerful guy who would prove himself the [TS]

  many other things that he had done in the company's I just some random [TS]

  employee off in the corner somewhere but for a long time it was just one person [TS]

  and I'm sure there's lots of other one person died projects that may or may not [TS]

  go anywhere but like it just goes to show that you don't need like buy into [TS]

  the VP level to get the ball rolling and maybe the ball starts rolling and then [TS]

  stop throwing my guys happened with ZFS or whatever the other things like it's [TS]

  not guaranteed is going to happen but it seems like Apple is currently [TS]

  organization in which something like this could start happening and get [TS]

  killed before we ever see it and something else comes along maybe [TS]

  reactors just the the hotness today and then two years it something else like [TS]

  but [TS]

  it's not outside the realm of possibility that Apple can innovate in [TS]

  his way on any subject of Infosys which they seem institutionally incapable not [TS]

  that I'm better than that but if they're going to do something like a react style [TS]

  UI framework that would be a really good thing to start with swift and to make [TS]

  swift only one of the things that I that makes react could look so weird is that [TS]

  it fits in very weirdly with existing languages [TS]

  the syntax of of declaring it and using it just like using javascript like this [TS]

  yeah it's really badly bolted on and I mean you know not by its own fault but [TS]

  really but you know Swift is is still squishy and and generally more potable [TS]

  but but but Swift is a much better fit the whole idea of so many things mean [TS]

  value types and swift like not that that is a direct parallel to the idea of the [TS]

  UI state being a valued and everything but i just shows that the headspace like [TS]

  whereas with that in terms of like immutable data [TS]

  well it is it is much more on the Riak side of things in Objective C is [TS]

  subjective thing is all but everything to mutate and hey just declared a type I [TS]

  D whatever gods alright [TS]

  like no you know we're going to end things down a lot of things that were [TS]

  reference types of becoming value types just because we've learned that in a [TS]

  string reference type just leaves in or headaches and don't forget to copy them [TS]

  and you know like that is the mindset of swift and so something using the good [TS]

  ideas and react in a st. display kid written entirely in swift would be a [TS]

  very interesting successor to both you I can get from Apple so someone should [TS]

  start writing that now and for years get back to me and give me reason to expect [TS]

  that to be a yes or three sponsors this week [TS]

  igloo hover and automatic and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  and a team markle [TS]

  what we talked about what is this about you really get into this go thing yeah [TS]

  I'm getting faster with it now and today was the first I like my my previous the [TS]

  the polar to feed polar that's just one giant file I didn't want to figure out [TS]

  you know how do I break up things in your files and manage that in go because [TS]

  it fit you know it's it's a pretty long files and I should bring up now the [TS]

  longer ones I like you know finalized actually need to be in the in the system [TS]

  fully but that's as you know so tonight I was working on something else so I [TS]

  have these and these two servers at high velocity they bought their lowest are [TS]

  started leasing per month by month ago and I haven't done anything with them [TS]

  yet because I I bought them because they were having an insane sale that was just [TS]

  ridiculous for what you get for both hardware and bandwidth we're now I for a [TS]

  few hundred dollars a month I now have an unmetered Gigabit of transfer a [TS]

  gigabit per second [TS]

  unmetered transfer what I asked them I'm like it before but unlike ours so you [TS]

  know what's your actual policy like if I actually use all this what if I was [TS]

  hosting big podcast value of if I made a podcast file hosts for whoever else like [TS]

  you know if we actually used all this ballot would you cut it off for it like [TS]

  and they're like nope we actually like you can use it that's the point so and [TS]

  it's it's it's a pair of machines that are each 500 megabit and they're each as [TS]

  good as roughly as good as a six core Mac Pro dual SSD is raid with RAID 1 64 [TS]

  gigs of ram I mean it's insane machines six-core Xeon 1663 is actually faster [TS]

  than the current Mac Pro CD is the Metra seem to have skipped a generation which [TS]

  they sometimes do so I'm not surprised but there is a newer version of the Xeon [TS]

  chips at the Met per uses that is out right now that Apple has not updated to [TS]

  and seems like there probably is not going to at this point anyway so I have [TS]

  is that I bought because [TS]

  one thing I want to do is and the reason why I was so interested in having tons [TS]

  and tons of bandwidth available is I want to be able to launch a Twitter card [TS]

  for overcast player pages so that you so that people who present Twitter app can [TS]

  play the podcast right there and Twitter cards store cards require that all [TS]

  assets that are loaded with in them including media files are served over [TS]

  HTTPS some podcast host supporters TPS for their files but most adult so what [TS]

  so the first thing a lot of the right was an HTTPS proxy and there are few [TS]

  these exist there's one called out as one that get her brood in Tahoe merit [TS]

  sorry forgot the name anyway so there's there's that one that's fine [TS]

  briefly to make it for images but same way I decided to try to write that in [TS]

  good basic as a proxy and it's it's so it's nothing it's like a hundred lie to [TS]

  me it's it's almost nothing it's great and I also have a few other things I [TS]

  wanted to try the I mentioned last week that I was using image extra my son [TS]

  nailing but it was costing me a fortune so I'm moving my artwork from Taylor to [TS]

  these boxes as well so I wrote just one go program that contains those two [TS]

  functions the proxy and the other just those two functions including it listens [TS]

  of Rick's DPS and its own services no server to forever there's no engine [TS]

  extra patchy or anything reverse proxying to its just its own server [TS]

  wrong right to the internet and that's all these boxes do is run this program [TS]

  so I'm hopefully going to be playing that the next day or so then it didn't [TS]

  take long to write it sounds like a few days I've been sick so my my work hours [TS]

  I can I can only work a few hours of time before I get laid out which really [TS]

  sucks but I'm extremely annoyed about that that is by far the worst part about [TS]

  being sick is is not how I feel it's that I can't work like that's what [TS]

  drives me nuts the most anyway so that's at least so [TS]

  if I was working full time at full capacity is from going to take only two [TS]

  days it has actually taken something like four days but so how does your go [TS]

  server handle the like quite understand the concurrency model of how does it [TS]

  handle like you know they're more incoming connections then like it does [TS]

  it does do multiple processes there a single process event driven what does it [TS]

  look like on the machine it it can do multiple cores but it is it is also seen [TS]

  its for the most part of single process of entering its they use this kind of an [TS]

  forgive me anyone who is an expert listening I'm not an expert yet on this [TS]

  this is a newbie overview of what are the way it works but the uses these [TS]

  include good routines which which are these you know kind of the Reds during [TS]

  sequential processes or something like that yes I am i that so it's those [TS]

  things and it basically a very lightweight thread that exists within [TS]

  the app space it is not a little threat so how does it behave like at the limit [TS]

  of you overwhelmed with connections to just wait does they do you exhaust like [TS]

  number of you know I was looking at the behavior it limits like this only reason [TS]

  I would ever put another server in front of like well I know how whatever will [TS]

  behave I can set these limits the number of connections I know people wait I know [TS]

  what will happen I know when people start getting timeouts connection like [TS]

  whatever whatever the failure mode is i cant use my failure mode and I don't [TS]

  know what the hell you wrote it all goes it never used it I so I I was earlier [TS]

  today to try to figure out why do I need to put engine X in front of it or [TS]

  something I can I just go without it the responses to that question were for the [TS]

  most part a few people who did it [TS]

  who just did it brought the internet who said its fine a few people who said you [TS]

  should put in connection front of it because of separation of roles which i [TS]

  think is total BS honestly that that is not a good like the way those arguments [TS]

  presented none of them convince me that they were valid arguments that that was [TS]

  not like there's nothing saying that having engine X reverse proxying to this [TS]

  go server is any more of a purity of roles than having to go server serving [TS]

  itself like it it has it [TS]

  has functionality built into the language like it's not the only reason I [TS]

  can think of her like the old reason they were used to run proxy server is [TS]

  that if you don't want to slow down the process with a bunch of your clients [TS]

  have slow connections you don't want to tie up your backend process doling out [TS]

  bits to the slow connections between an event driven thing that's not really [TS]

  valid anymore but you're not talking it up you doing out but slowly doing other [TS]

  things you know multithreaded then moving on to the next thing right and [TS]

  and like and the way like it seems like you would like the difference between [TS]

  engine X being tied up with those connections and go be entitled to [TS]

  because they both have that same event driven style model I don't think one to [TS]

  be substantially better than the other that yeah and the failure modes the real [TS]

  question for me is like does Google put anything in front of its service when it [TS]

  really cool doesn't do it which I suspect they don't because it seems like [TS]

  those designed to do this then like Google side doing it you don't need to [TS]

  do anything like their it if it's able to [TS]

  designed to handle the traffic that Google expects surely you can do your [TS]

  podcast image thing about having to go out talk during the day I know nothing [TS]

  about this I'll be interested to see what the results are experimentation [TS]

  that's probably about as simple just because Google is such an incredible [TS]

  skill they have lots of stuff in between the public Internet and their [TS]

  application server so that that's probably about example but I would be [TS]

  interested to see like you know medium sized sites to see like what they do [TS]

  like Google do they intentionally put a layer there whose only purpose is to be [TS]

  you know I mean like I respect of the machines of their things are running on [TS]

  the go process is listening on the parts and yes there's nothing between but like [TS]

  do they do they strive and Jackson there is essentially a proxy server for some [TS]

  reason [TS]

  it makes much more sense to do that if you have a multi-process back and do you [TS]

  think he would be tying up the entire trial process when really you just put a [TS]

  big buffer in the proxy have the child process should bite out of the proxy and [TS]

  then that child process is free to serve another request while the process [TS]

  forward old up as business local that's like nineteen nineties error of state of [TS]

  the art web technology but we've done from the right then and there was I saw [TS]

  there was one benchmark that somebody posted where they they they should they [TS]

  should have the code the use and there are few if you complain in the Commons [TS]

  but it seemed pretty pretty valid where they they benchmarks like a simple [TS]

  simple go program like a hello world kind of thing really simple go program [TS]

  raw vs and connects with a few different configurations and tweaks and the ngo [TS]

  program just had it destroyed engine X in in in request rate per second with [TS]

  either a be or whether they're similar tools it was WAY faster with just pure [TS]

  go cause of course it's doing less like and your synchronizing to event driven [TS]

  things like one thing is handling and they're not going to be in sync of like [TS]

  when 1 I'm doing the work on behalf of this request then handing out like it's [TS]

  just you're just it's not just adding overhead it's like these 2d synchronized [TS]

  event driven things trying to talk to each other [TS]

  exactly so that's what I mean so what these servers are set up they actually [TS]

  have none of my app on them they don't have any access to my main [TS]

  infrastructure they don't they don't even read the database they they don't [TS]

  have anything on them except this go program there's they don't even have PHP [TS]

  installed so they don't even have private net access that of the line owed [TS]

  servers they have no connection whatsoever to the app just my app is [TS]

  able to write its files into it and it only has the Gulf I also like the risk [TS]

  of these things it comprises pretty small and if they go down the these are [TS]

  really kind of accessory features its I'm gonna have a CDN effort of the [TS]

  artwork thumbnail her anyway I'm not much of a CDN in front of the park has [TS]

  been with the podcast SSL thing for two reasons number 12 bandwidth costs of [TS]

  extraordinary and I don't think I would be able to afford it [TS]

  number to the way this is working overcast does not proxy the files [TS]

  normally [TS]

  and I only want to use this in areas where SSL really required for usability [TS]

  or functionality so that would be things like Twitter cards the web player to [TS]

  avoid mix content warnings things like that in reality that's not most uses of [TS]

  overcast that's not most players and it will never be but regardless I still [TS]

  don't wanna like steel hits from people's files and so the way they've [TS]

  set up that there is absolutely no caching of that some proxies assets [TS]

  every request that is made through that proxy has a has a corresponding request [TS]

  that the origin server and and I know you know they're probably not going to [TS]

  count my IP is unique I am sending the exported for an extra IP headers that [TS]

  the standard for proxies I would imagine like to prevent fraudulent download [TS]

  count increases most at services probably ignore those are some of the [TS]

  big hosokawa I already talked to his lips in and I know SoundCloud I won't I [TS]

  don't need to use it with them because I know how I know how to do secure URLs [TS]

  for them reliably so that that should be fine but either way I still want like I [TS]

  still want the damage to be counted in some way as as much as possible for the [TS]

  origin servers so anyway there's no cash involved there that's intentional but [TS]

  for the art work there is cash involved there's gonna be a CD in front of it so [TS]

  if these servers go down for any reason it's not gonna be a massive deal it's [TS]

  not gonna be like the whole app stops working or something big is like ugly [TS]

  and broken it's gonna be a really small deal and so I'm just gonna try it and [TS]

  you know I have just this 17 megabyte go binary to to put into service and that's [TS]

  it there's no dependencies there's no at this very much if there's no [TS]

  configuration really the only sensitive thing on there is gonna be the private [TS]

  key to the SSL certificate that uses that's it [TS]

  like so I will be interesting that was much more in depth than I expected that [TS]

  sucks [TS]

  what's going on titles I think minutiae that has to mean that has to be it is a [TS]

  binding is that's gonna break a whole bunch of podcast klein's isn't it like [TS]

  shell script might break to the title yeah well it's not really on August 2 [TS]

  I'll use iTunes to deliver something else can you believe a lot of high-cost [TS]

  producers that's how the embedded III tags is the import the mp3 into iTunes [TS]

  and hit him and I for the info panel and type in the stuff and an expert like [TS]

  that's crazy to me that anybody does that issues mp3 rage and pretend its [TS]

  2002 again [TS]

  well I'm using lame on the command line which is pretending like it's 2004 [TS]

  similar area yeah exactly what the heck center [TS]

  well then you have to know UTF eight converting that that karen is probably [TS]

  the best one here is that is that little a simple actually pronounced like shake [TS]

  dat the let me know how to pronounce the little well depends on what language you [TS]

  talking about if you're talking about Latin or Greek which is probably where [TS]

  it's from the answer is nobody actually knows and everyone's gonna think they [TS]

  know and they're making it up so I think we'll use the wonderful a ligature and [TS]

  we will just tolerate the emails they come in because we love everybody's [TS]

  email so much going to be able to tell you that I think it is a litre isn't it [TS]

  I don't know I'm just speculating about potential you know we could get as as [TS]

  Holgate in the chatroom points out the HTML entity name for it is 80 leg so I'm [TS]

  pretty sure that the ligature I don't know I don't know the technology you [TS]

  know it's fun to type face and everything that lots of distinctions [TS]

  that I have apparently not cared enough about to memorize I know they exist but [TS]

  I don't know what's right [TS]