00:00:00 ◼ ► This is Upgrade. Episode 568. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Delete Me, and Factor.
00:00:30 ◼ ► Jason? Mike with an I? Different. This one isn't me. Usually when I say it's from Mike,
00:00:38 ◼ ► Mike wants to know, how much did you enjoy using the AirPods Max for the recording of last week's
00:00:44 ◼ ► episode? I like how this is phrased. How did I like it? How did you like it? Mike, I did not like it.
00:00:51 ◼ ► I know. Listeners may know, Jason doesn't like wearing over-ear headphones of any kind.
00:00:57 ◼ ► I hate it. I hate it so much. Somebody, was it Lauren or Jamie, asked me, what's the deal
00:01:04 ◼ ► with those headphones? Are those your headphones? And I was like, no. I said, I've only ever worn
00:01:11 ◼ ► AirPods Max at Apple Park because they supply them if you're doing a podcast there. And again,
00:01:20 ◼ ► very generous of them, not saying anything about their generosity, just saying I don't like over-ear
00:01:26 ◼ ► headphones. It doesn't matter who makes them, even the greatest ones of all time. I'm never going to
00:01:31 ◼ ► like them. It makes my ears sweaty. I find them weird and uncomfortable. I've just, I've never liked
00:01:37 ◼ ► using them. Um, I find the whole experience unpleasant. So no is how I like them. I, I like
00:01:44 ◼ ► them zero. Um, yeah, I was just mentioning to you before we started the show. Cause, uh, my,
00:01:50 ◼ ► my travel is, is getting in place for September this year for the podcast.com where we'll be hanging
00:01:55 ◼ ► out and hopefully talking about new iPhones and, uh, and doing a better live in-person episode than we
00:02:01 ◼ ► did last year where we didn't wear headphones and we're off access and sounded like a disaster,
00:02:10 ◼ ► but we try not to think about that. We're not going to do that. We're not going to do that again.
00:02:13 ◼ ► Cause we're both going to be wearing headphones this time, but this is the thing for me. Uh,
00:02:16 ◼ ► my travel headphones are an original pair of AirPods Max. And this is the, I think the first trip
00:02:23 ◼ ► that I'll be taking, maybe the first trip since Apple updated the AirPods Max. Um, and especially
00:02:29 ◼ ► since they got them to the point where it was actually somewhat on par with the previous version.
00:02:33 ◼ ► Like there is a cable that you can use now, which there wasn't for many months when they
00:02:37 ◼ ► introduced the USB-C, uh, version. Right. Yes. And I just, I think I'm like super over the AirPods Max,
00:02:45 ◼ ► but the question is, do I move to the new Sonys or not? This is like the question I have for myself.
00:02:54 ◼ ► the last Sonys, they didn't get the kind of like overwhelming. These are really good, uh, reviews
00:03:00 ◼ ► that the Sony headphones usually get. Um, but I watched a MKBHD video. This is the WH-1000XM6.
00:03:11 ◼ ► Uh, and, and he's like, Oh yeah, no, they, they did it again. Um, and like they do a lot of what I
00:03:16 ◼ ► want. They fold and all that kind of stuff. And you compare multiple devices, but I just don't think
00:03:20 ◼ ► it's, I just, I, this is the thing I'm never going to get exactly what I want. Cause what I like about
00:03:25 ◼ ► the AirPods Max is they do the automatic switching, which I love with Apple products and AirPods. It
00:03:30 ◼ ► works really great for me. And it's not going to do that. You can have multiple devices, but it's not
00:03:34 ◼ ► going to do the switching. Um, yeah, but, but then I also don't get a lot of what I want from the
00:03:40 ◼ ► AirPods experience from the AirPods Max because it uses an old chip. So you don't get like transparent,
00:03:46 ◼ ► the, um, adaptive mode. You don't get the, the voice modes and stuff like that. So I just don't
00:03:51 ◼ ► know. I don't know what to do. They're old. I, I actually realized, um, I do have a little bit of a
00:03:56 ◼ ► story here, which is that I, I did buy a, some generation of those Sony headphones at one point.
00:04:00 ◼ ► The story was I had, um, really just kind of a weird inner ear, um, thing that we thought that I had,
00:04:07 ◼ ► which I think I, I do have. And it means that sometimes when I travel, um, I'm, uh, I get to my
00:04:14 ◼ ► destination and I'm kind of, I feel kind of sick for like a day afterward. And one of the things that
00:04:19 ◼ ► my audiologist and my doctor suggested was, um, don't, don't use my plug your ear in ear headphones
00:04:27 ◼ ► because they exacerbate the pressure in your ears and instead use, uh, use cans, you use the big over
00:04:34 ◼ ► ear headphones. And so I bought a pair and we were about to go to Hawaii. I bought a pair of Sony of the
00:04:40 ◼ ► Sony noise canceling headphones. They sounded great. There are quirks cause it's Sony and it does things
00:04:46 ◼ ► that I'm like, Hmm, you know, I spend enough time with Apple products and I'm like, this is janky.
00:04:51 ◼ ► Like, Oh, you could update the firmware with this. It's just like, it was weird, but they, they were,
00:04:54 ◼ ► they were really nice. And, um, I ended up giving them to my son because, uh, he wanted them and he
00:05:01 ◼ ► likes them and he, he used them until they died. Um, and, you know, brutalize them in a way only a
00:05:08 ◼ ► teenager can do to the point where they, they died a violent death. But, um, what the reason I didn't
00:05:15 ◼ ► use them anymore is cause then Apple came out with AirPods pro. And one of the features of AirPods pro,
00:05:21 ◼ ► in addition to doing noise canceling, which was really nice on an airplane is they have, they made a point of
00:05:28 ◼ ► saying that they have airflow control in the headphones and the air passes through and it doesn't block your
00:05:34 ◼ ► ears. The air moves through and the pressure would move through. And I've used those on the airplane
00:05:39 ◼ ► since and, uh, have not had any effect. I don't wear the in-ears. I wear the AirPods instead. Um, but
00:05:46 ◼ ► anyway, so I, I did buy them. I appreciate that people like them. Um, I wouldn't recommend people
00:05:52 ◼ ► buying AirPods max right now either. So, so you think about that and we'll, we'll, uh, we'll,
00:06:01 ◼ ► I've got a few months. Cause it's also like, I like the, the AirPods pro work fantastic. Like
00:06:06 ◼ ► the noise cancellation on a plane is just superbly good. Um, but I just find most comfortable when
00:06:15 ◼ ► flying to be personally to be wearing over ears. I just find that to be more comfortable.
00:06:19 ◼ ► This is one of those ergonomics things as we have more and more products that are designed for us to
00:06:24 ◼ ► wear ergonomics matter. And everybody's ergonomics are a little bit different. Everybody's going to
00:06:29 ◼ ► have different preferences. This is why I say I have no problem with the AirPods max other than the fact
00:06:33 ◼ ► that I don't want that category. I just don't like that product category at all, but, but it works for
00:06:39 ◼ ► you. And for me, I would choose AirPods pro over AirPods max every time. And we have friends who would
00:06:44 ◼ ► choose regular AirPods over either. So, I mean, it is what it is, but, um, uh, yeah, looking forward to
00:06:51 ◼ ► seeing in September though. Uh, listening, you may have thought to yourself, why is the music different, uh, for this
00:06:57 ◼ ► episode of upgrade? And that is because it is the summer of fun. Summer of fun. Summer of fun. I thought I would,
00:07:05 ◼ ► we would test take a moment for any new listeners, uh, who wonder why we're shouting, uh, and what the summer of fun
00:07:13 ◼ ► is, uh, well, this started honestly too many years ago for me to remember now, uh, where basically
00:07:19 ◼ ► during this period of time in between kind of like, kind of more like late June up until September for
00:07:26 ◼ ► the iPhone, uh, things can get a bit quiet news wise. And there was just some years we were really
00:07:32 ◼ ► struggling with what to talk about. And we decided we're just going to start doing some weird stuff and
00:07:36 ◼ ► throwing in some fun episodes and some creative projects throughout the year. This became the summer of
00:07:40 ◼ ► fun. So the summer of fun starts when the week after WWDC, it runs up to the draft, uh, for the
00:07:47 ◼ ► iPhone event. That will be the summer of fun. We're in it now. And we're in it now and it's meant to be
00:07:53 ◼ ► fun. It is. I refer to this period sometimes as the, the, the cruise toward the iPhone event because we
00:07:59 ◼ ► have the peak of WWDC and then there's, it's very busy afterward, but it's not busy in a, oh my God,
00:08:07 ◼ ► oh my God, oh my God, every week. Instead, it's more like, uh, every, everybody's, you know, the
00:08:12 ◼ ► betas will come and we'll have conversations about things that are in them and we'll have rumors about
00:08:17 ◼ ► the iPhone, but it's like, it's a different pace and you almost have to pace yourself. And, and, uh,
00:08:23 ◼ ► summer of fun actually is a way for us to kind of pace ourself, do creative things to talk about
00:08:29 ◼ ► during that time when we're all kind of just anticipating the new iPhones and whatever else comes in the
00:08:34 ◼ ► fall and reflecting on, you know, the, the stuff that got dropped at WWDC, but that we've got,
00:08:40 ◼ ► you know, a few months to reflect on that. So it's a, and we'll throw in some ideas and I will say
00:08:45 ◼ ► in our show document, I collected a bunch of great ideas that had been sent in by people
00:08:50 ◼ ► kind of as, as ask upgrades, um, that, uh, while Mike was gone, I just sort of, I created a new section
00:08:57 ◼ ► called good ideas in our documents. So we'll probably pull some of those good ideas and we'll
00:09:02 ◼ ► do, you know, we'll do a tier list and we'll do a weird, just draft for fun and stuff like that.
00:09:09 ◼ ► We have had multiple people right. And now to say, will you do a new tier list for the icons?
00:09:16 ◼ ► Now they've all been redesigned. That is maybe that's high up on my list, but we, we, we would
00:09:25 ◼ ► Yeah. I had a great idea for an audio themed segment where I will play sounds for you. Uh,
00:09:36 ◼ ► and I'm not actually going to go further than that and saying what it is, but I had, I had,
00:09:39 ◼ ► and the more that I think about it, the more I like this idea. So that might happen this summer.
00:09:44 ◼ ► We'll see. Part of the summer of fun is it gives us permission to try and get a little creative with
00:09:49 ◼ ► things we do in the show, knowing that we've kind of got the summer gives us a little more space to do
00:09:54 ◼ ► that. So I hope people enjoy it. Uh, we certainly enjoy it, but I think it, I think it, um, provides
00:09:59 ◼ ► a little variety, uh, in a period where otherwise it could be kind of samey, right? Cause it's not,
00:10:04 ◼ ► not like we don't have stuff to talk about. It's just that we don't have any, we have the same stuff
00:10:08 ◼ ► to talk about for like 10 weeks. And, and so you try to space it out and intersperse it with other
00:10:13 ◼ ► stuff. Now I want to talk about something that's summer related, but not fun, but there's no way I
00:10:29 ◼ ► surf vibes come from Brian Wilson and we lost Brian Wilson in the past week. Brian Wilson was
00:10:35 ◼ ► the creative driving force behind the Beach Boys. Uh, I think one of the greatest songwriters of all
00:10:39 ◼ ► time. Uh, he passed away, um, this week and it means a lot to me. I I've loved the Beach Boys music
00:10:45 ◼ ► since, since, since I was a kid and I've had the pleasure of seeing Brian Wilson in concert three
00:10:51 ◼ ► times, uh, incredibly emotional experience. His music just hits me to my heart. Uh, and Peter wrote
00:10:58 ◼ ► in to say, uh, to ask in the wake of Brian Wilson's passing mic, what Beach Boys related tracks are on your
00:11:04 ◼ ► mind. Mine include include include in my room and surfs up in my room. It's just Brian Wilson had this
00:11:10 ◼ ► duality where he can create the happiest music, but also the saddest music. It's a fascinating and he's
00:11:17 ◼ ► lived a fascinating, he lived a very difficult and interesting life. Uh, for me though, one of the
00:11:23 ◼ ► songs that just never leaves is God Only Knows. It's just, I think one of the greatest songs ever
00:11:27 ◼ ► written. It was, uh, the first dance that me and Idina had at our wedding. Jason, you got to see that
00:11:32 ◼ ► dance in person. Uh, we, we did that because that, you know, that song is, is so beautiful and I love it
00:11:38 ◼ ► so much, but just the majority of the Pet Sounds album has been in my head because it has more of a
00:11:43 ◼ ► somber tone than the majority of the Beach Boys catalog. And so, yeah, I just wanted to mark that
00:11:48 ◼ ► here because, uh, he means so much to me and, uh, I feel like it's, it is summer. The Beach Boys to me
00:11:56 ◼ ► are summer. Um, and so, uh, rest in peace, Brian Wilson. Let's move on with some follow-up. We've got
00:12:04 ◼ ► a bunch today. An anonymous person wrote in Jason to let us know about something you might be excited
00:12:08 ◼ ► about. And they said the enterprise release notes for Mac OS 26 say that privacy and security
00:12:24 ◼ ► That is what it would appear, right? And, and as we spoke about before, is the obvious thing that
00:12:29 ◼ ► should happen, right? Like there's no reason that getting a new computer means you've forgotten.
00:12:45 ◼ ► Is it odd that at one of Apple's biggest events of the year, the CEO is absent? Why do you think
00:12:50 ◼ ► this is? I don't think it's odd at all because Tim, this is about software and product and it's not
00:12:56 ◼ ► about Tim. Tim is a big picture strategy guy. If he's, if he's anything, I mean, he's steering the
00:13:03 ◼ ► company. And so, you know, I think he made his appearance, his token appearance, but like in terms
00:13:08 ◼ ► of a Q and a, he doesn't do a lot of those, they tend to be out of band. They're at weird times
00:13:13 ◼ ► with interesting, uh, interesting outlets and they are more often, they're more kind of like soft,
00:13:20 ◼ ► uh, or they're more business focused. Like I didn't, I don't think it's, it's a notable at all.
00:13:26 ◼ ► This is the, like this, this is, they, they always will card out your VPs for, uh, things like this
00:13:33 ◼ ► event. I've heard this in a few places, like on a couple of podcasts that I listened to. I think
00:13:37 ◼ ► there's people trying to find a story where there isn't one like Tim's hiding. No, this, if this was
00:13:43 ◼ ► the iPhone event and he was not on good morning America, then you've got a problem, right? Like if,
00:13:49 ◼ ► cause that's when we see him, like Tim is always around in September. Yeah. Thing where
00:13:54 ◼ ► he wanders around, but yeah, it's an OS thing. It's developers. It's just not a big, Tim, Tim makes
00:13:59 ◼ ► his appearances. He, he hasn't vanished, but this is, I, yeah, there are other people to do this kind
00:14:05 ◼ ► of coverage right now. Also last year, I think it was at WWC last year, they had him doing some stuff
00:14:11 ◼ ► and it just didn't go well. Like he did that, um, interview on KBHD and it just, it's, it didn't,
00:14:19 ◼ ► it's the trying too hard part of last year. Last year tried too hard and cart now Tim to talk about
00:14:24 ◼ ► Apple intelligence is, is part of the trying too hard. It's part of the, um, they were desperate
00:14:30 ◼ ► to be seen as strategic about AI. And this year was a retrenchment and Tim not being front and center
00:14:39 ◼ ► makes perfect sense for that. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. Uh, Joe Lynn writes in and says in the WWDC draft
00:14:47 ◼ ► pick episode, Jason asked if math notes was called maths notes in the UK. I said, no, I was wrong.
00:14:55 ◼ ► It is called maths notes in the British English version of all of Apple's platforms. Uh, I missed
00:15:02 ◼ ► this and I looked at it as like, Oh my God, yes it is. It just completely, I just don't see it. Right.
00:15:07 ◼ ► Like it's, that is such an ugly thing to say. Maths notes. Uh, so, but yes, it is, it is correctly,
00:15:22 ◼ ► Or something. Yep. That's what it is. That's what it is. From now on, I defy you to not look
00:15:40 ◼ ► Oh, and Apple is on the defensive about Apple intelligence. Uh, and seemingly, I think quite
00:15:49 ◼ ► specifically about John Gruber's article, uh, Joanna Stern got the interview this year. Uh,
00:15:55 ◼ ► Joanna gets interviews frequently, but. She does. Joanna got the sit down with Federighi and
00:16:00 ◼ ► Jaws, which I think was, was positioned as a, this is the canonical place in which we will
00:16:07 ◼ ► give our responses. Um, the one thing that I wanted to pick out on this was, uh, Jaws says,
00:16:15 ◼ ► there's this narrative out there that this was demo wear only. I like the out there. There's a
00:16:21 ◼ ► narrative out there. What could it be? Nobody knows. Essentially, in case you missed it,
00:16:26 ◼ ► Apple is saying that they had two architectures last year for how the more personal Siri and the
00:16:34 ◼ ► personal context stuff would work. They said it was working on one of them at the time of the demo.
00:16:40 ◼ ► They then subsequently realized that this path was not the right one and it was switched to the other
00:16:45 ◼ ► one. And it's going to take time. Uh, understandably, John Gruber wrote a piece about this. And as he
00:16:54 ◼ ► points out the features in question that were never actually demoed at all, like they, you know,
00:16:59 ◼ ► Jaws and Craig talk about like there being, uh, Oh, the things that we were showing at the time that
00:17:06 ◼ ► we were demoing at the time. It's like, they were never demoed. Like the features were spoken about
00:17:12 ◼ ► as if they were happening on the presenter's phone, but we never saw them happen. Like it kept cutting
00:17:16 ◼ ► away, showing animations and stuff like that. And I want to read a quote from, uh, John's piece. Um,
00:17:22 ◼ ► but at this point, based on Federighi and Jaws react public statements and some other things I've
00:17:26 ◼ ► heard from little birdies this week, I'm willing to stipulate that there was, let's call it
00:17:31 ◼ ► working code for the personalized Siri feature a year ago. At least one reason why the feature
00:17:36 ◼ ► as presented in last year's keynote was edited. Like it was, is that the latency was so bad
00:17:42 ◼ ► that whatever state it was in, it couldn't be shown in a single take. So I think we can kind of put it
00:17:47 ◼ ► to bed now where as with a lot of these things are kind of two truths, right? Like Apple is true in
00:17:52 ◼ ► saying it was working, but John is kind of right in that it was not showable because they never showed
00:18:00 ◼ ► it to anyone, which is still going back to the original point he made in the first place.
00:18:03 ◼ ► Exactly. This is, this is a distinction kind of without a difference that allows Apple to kind of
00:18:08 ◼ ► like push back on, on something that is by redefining what the statement was, because what Gruber says is
00:18:16 ◼ ► nobody he knew at Apple had ever seen this feature running before they announced it. And I'll just
00:18:22 ◼ ► flag that and say, that's unusual. Yeah. Right. That's unusual. So nobody saw it. And what Apple
00:18:29 ◼ ► is saying is, well, no, we had it running and it's like, okay, did you have it running? What state was
00:18:36 ◼ ► it in? Was it running before the demo or was it running later? I mean, that's one of the scenarios
00:18:41 ◼ ► here is that they, they, they got it running. I have a hard time believing they would show it without
00:18:47 ◼ ► believing that they could ship it. And that's something Federighi said in the interview that I think
00:18:50 ◼ ► absolutely rings true. Right. Obviously just passes a logical test that he's like, we wouldn't have put
00:18:56 ◼ ► it in the video if we didn't think we could ship it. And so we did have it. What happened is they had
00:19:02 ◼ ► something that was like running in a small group on, you know, somebody's computer somewhere. And they're
00:19:09 ◼ ► like, yeah, we can get this over the top. But it was like, not as far along as generally a feature that
00:19:14 ◼ ► gets put in the keynote would, would be. And even the, the idea that maybe the things in the video
00:19:22 ◼ ► were generated by actual code. Like there are so many edits. It's this idea that, that even if they
00:19:27 ◼ ► were generated by actual code, they were generated in a more artificial way than one had come to expect
00:19:33 ◼ ► from features that got introduced. So I understand Apple wanting to push back here because they,
00:19:40 ◼ ► they, what they want to say is, look, we weren't lying. What they don't want to say is we weren't
00:19:45 ◼ ► lying. We just, uh, stretched it way more than we usually do because we were desperate. So they leave
00:19:52 ◼ ► that part out. So like, are they telling the truth here? I think they probably are, but what they've done
00:19:57 ◼ ► is redefine the argument to something that they can explain away, uh, by saying it's a narrative that this
00:20:03 ◼ ► was demo where only where the truth is it wasn't demo where only a small group saw it, but it was
00:20:08 ◼ ► totally broken. And then we could never get it working, which they don't want to say. So they
00:20:13 ◼ ► just kind of leave it at this. Uh, Joanna Stern was with, uh, joined Nilay Patel as the guests for the
00:20:19 ◼ ► talk show this year. Um, yep. I got shouted out from the stage. You did. It was hilarious.
00:20:25 ◼ ► Hilarious. Plus they mentioned Doggletown. Nilay mentioned my name and mentioned Doggletown. I love it.
00:20:30 ◼ ► There is a problem with Doggletown. I think there was a simultaneous creation problem between us and
00:20:34 ◼ ► the verge. Oh yeah. No, we didn't create it, but we, we were a popularizer of it and he was doing the
00:20:39 ◼ ► Chinatown thing, right? Forget it. It's, it's Doggletown. He said, which the Chinatown, I don't
00:20:43 ◼ ► care. Cause I, I am a citizen of Doggletown. So I was happy to, happy to see it. I just want to say
00:20:48 ◼ ► like, in case people haven't heard the episode, cause maybe it's like, Oh, you know, I listened for the
00:20:53 ◼ ► interview. This was the best episode of the talk show from WWDC in years, in my opinion. It's
00:20:59 ◼ ► actually, I'm like, Oh, this is what I would prefer to hear. Like they talked about real
00:21:02 ◼ ► stuff. Yes. I just want to hear them talk about it. I think that from my tastes, I prefer the
00:21:08 ◼ ► executives in an environment like Joanne I've got, where it's like, let's just make this the
00:21:12 ◼ ► tightest it can be because you're not going to give us a lot of the information that we
00:21:16 ◼ ► want anyway. So we may as well make this 10 minutes rather than 90 minutes. I don't know.
00:21:21 ◼ ► We got some feedback by the way, somebody said, Oh, you, you say that the, you know, the Gruber
00:21:25 ◼ ► Gruber does his interviews the way he does because he's, you know, he, he needs to try and ask
00:21:31 ◼ ► questions that they're going to answer and all of that. And, but Joanna just went for it. I'm
00:21:34 ◼ ► like, okay, well, I think that's a good point. Except what I'll say is John Gruber, um, rented
00:21:50 ◼ ► Joanna is, uh, is doing an interview, by the way, on a, on a moment's notice. Cause she got
00:21:56 ◼ ► told the day before and her people were like, her video people are like going to the airport
00:21:59 ◼ ► and she's like, no, no, we must stay. They've given this thing. So, so it was really at the
00:22:04 ◼ ► drop of a hat and she had very little time to prepare, but like, it's a, it's a TV interview,
00:22:08 ◼ ► essentially. I know it's wall street journal, but I mean, she used to work at what ABC, like
00:22:12 ◼ ► it's a, it is a TV interview where it's going to be edited. In fact, they dropped the Siri
00:22:17 ◼ ► part first because they didn't have time to edit the whole thing. So they just put that
00:22:20 ◼ ► out immediately. And, you know, in that scenario, like the whole point is to do the give and take
00:22:27 ◼ ► and ask those questions directly in a way that I would say you are less likely to do when
00:22:40 ◼ ► in Joanna's shoes, you would absolutely feel more free asking those questions in that way.
00:22:45 ◼ ► So yeah. Plus she's the wall street journal. Honestly, the wall street journal, as much
00:22:50 ◼ ► as we love John Gruber, the wall street journal has a weight that during fireball can't because
00:22:55 ◼ ► the wall street journal is more easily ask that. Like I, I feel like maybe some people wouldn't
00:23:00 ◼ ► understand the thinking behind that, but like she has the shielding of, and like the confidence
00:23:11 ◼ ► Plus it's not live. It's not live. There's no audience. And I mean the audience factor too,
00:23:17 ◼ ► like I think one of the reasons they skipped the talk show was to punish Gruber. I think one of the
00:23:21 ◼ ► reasons they skipped the talk show is the last thing they wanted was an audience of developers
00:23:25 ◼ ► to be free to boo the statements of Apple executives during a bad year. So, uh, yeah, I, but it's a very
00:23:35 ◼ ► I would say, I don't know how these things go, but my expectation is when Joanna sat down, she knew she
00:23:39 ◼ ► could ask that question and they were going to give her an answer. And that is not a thing that would
00:23:45 ◼ ► have happened on the talk show because it's a more of a conversation. It's a podcast. Like it's a longer
00:23:51 ◼ ► drawn out thing. They have a very specific thing they're going to say, and that's all they're going to say.
00:23:55 ◼ ► And they can say, we're not going to talk about that anymore. And that's fine because it can then
00:23:59 ◼ ► be edited out of the video because it's fine. Right. And that's the venue they chose, which is a
00:24:04 ◼ ► kind of control. I mean, they didn't control Joanna, but they control the venue. They did that in that
00:24:07 ◼ ► little perch that they have above the Steve Jobs theater. That's got the view of the, of the,
00:24:12 ◼ ► the ring and all of that. Like they had this whole setup. They also controlled it in the sense that
00:24:16 ◼ ► they didn't tell her that she could do it until the day before there was no suggestion. That is an
00:24:21 ◼ ► aspect of control is keeping people kind of out of, out of balance. Um, but they did, you know,
00:24:28 ◼ ► it was, it was great in the sense that we don't usually hear executives talk in detail about any
00:24:33 ◼ ► of this. It's actually great for a lot of the same ways. The talk show is great is if you can get,
00:24:36 ◼ ► or any Apple interview on a podcast is great. If you can get something out of it that allows you to
00:24:41 ◼ ► glean something about the way they're thinking. And Joanna did that. And I'm very glad that she did.
00:24:46 ◼ ► She's so good at her job. I, that's the thing I actually took away from the talk show is boy,
00:24:57 ◼ ► Joanna brings a sense of professionalism that is so strong. Like she has such a weight behind her words.
00:25:05 ◼ ► She's very, she's, she's a very impressive like media personality. Yeah. And she has fun and she's got a
00:25:11 ◼ ► great personality and she tells stories from her life and that are, that are often hilarious. I,
00:25:16 ◼ ► sometimes I wonder what her wife thinks of getting brought up. I think she doesn't know all the time.
00:25:21 ◼ ► I guess it's just part of the, or she doesn't know. Um, but, uh, but like, yeah, she's just,
00:25:26 ◼ ► yeah, Jo, Joanne is great. And Neelay is, is also, uh, really just super smart and we can make fun of his,
00:25:32 ◼ ► you know, sometimes he, he like had the headphone jack and stuff like that, but like, he is really sharp.
00:25:37 ◼ ► I got to talk to him the night before, uh, at a dinner for a little bit. And we were talking about
00:25:42 ◼ ► the Apple in China book, which is on our list of things to talk about this summer, I think. Um,
00:25:46 ◼ ► yeah, I want to read that book. Yeah, you should read it and we should do a little book club because
00:25:50 ◼ ► I just finished it and it's a really good book. Actually. I highly recommend it to everybody. It's,
00:25:54 ◼ ► it's, uh, it's, it's the guy's a good writer. Um, and it's, and it's a, there are, I've read a lot of
00:26:00 ◼ ► bad Apple books and this is not one of them. Um, but anyway, I, I got a chance to chat with Neelay about that.
00:26:05 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, he views, he, he views things from a certain perspective. And I think that one of the
00:26:10 ◼ ► challenges of a lot of people working in general tech today is that they end up focusing a little
00:26:15 ◼ ► too much on like AI related issues and not other things because AI is such a big topic right now.
00:26:21 ◼ ► And I think even Neelay is a little bit guilty of that, although he, he brings a skepticism to it that
00:26:27 ◼ ► I really appreciate. So, so anyway, that was part of the joy of the talk show for me. And I was there in
00:26:31 ◼ ► the first row, uh, not watching the F1 movie because I was supporting independent, uh, tech
00:26:36 ◼ ► media and my friend, John, uh, just to say, uh, good guests and really smart people and having
00:26:44 ◼ ► a bunch of smart people turn over what Apple was trying to do this past week. Uh, I thought that
00:26:51 ◼ ► was really smart. Yeah. Good, good show. Um, just to wrap this whole thing up, Apple keeps saying that
00:26:56 ◼ ► these Apple intelligence features that we didn't get will be coming quote in the coming year,
00:27:00 ◼ ► but apparently that the coming year does not mean 2025. It means 2026, like coming as in the year that
00:27:07 ◼ ► is yet to come, which is a super weird way to say that when if pressed, apparently they will tell you
00:27:13 ◼ ► they mean 2026, so they should just say 2026 rather than the coming year. I, I look, I know why they're
00:27:20 ◼ ► doing it, but I wish they would stop doing it. Here's, here's the way that I viewed that, which is
00:27:30 ◼ ► announcement about delaying the features right down to the fact that it didn't meet their high
00:27:33 ◼ ► quality bar. Um, uh, which is a weird, anyway, I have issues with the whole statement and in the
00:27:40 ◼ ► coming year, it's a very particular way of, of phrasing all of it that felt a little, you know,
00:27:46 ◼ ► obfuscating, but here's the thing, Apple jaws, you can change those words. You could approve some new
00:27:56 ◼ ► things to say at WWDC about it to provide a little more color, if you will, to the idea of like what
00:28:03 ◼ ► you're planning. You don't, there's no law on the books that the statement that you released
00:28:08 ◼ ► surreptitiously, you know, on a Friday in the spring needs to be the words you cling to for the
00:28:14 ◼ ► next year. Right. You could be more clear and it would be okay. I don't know why they didn't do that
00:28:21 ◼ ► and why they're acting like, uh, we're just going to keep parroting our statement. Like there was no,
00:28:26 ◼ ► there's no reason. It's not like they're like, well, you know, we didn't get it cleared with the
00:28:30 ◼ ► bosses. Like the bosses are right there. Like be, be, be clearer. Like be clear about this. If you
00:28:37 ◼ ► have to clarify it with everybody, you didn't clarify it. It suggests to me, there is still a
00:28:42 ◼ ► little bit of nervousness. Like there's like this feeling of being behind that they want to like say,
00:28:50 ◼ ► Hey, no, it's come in. Like, Oh, it's come in. Like, I don't know. It's because it's weird. Anyway,
00:28:55 ◼ ► Mark Gurman reports that, uh, internally Apple is targeting iOS 26.4 for these features, which we
00:29:02 ◼ ► would expect to be in the spring. Right now. So, so something just to a tangent on this, uh, before
00:29:08 ◼ ► we move on, and I know I'm pretty sure we mentioned it last week. I got to be honest, Mike, what we
00:29:13 ◼ ► talked about last week is just a blur to me. I mean, it was keynote and then that, and then I had
00:29:19 ◼ ► briefings and then I had another podcast. We did a six colors podcast, uh, which is on YouTube and
00:29:24 ◼ ► posted on six colors for anybody who wants to see it. Uh, usually that's a members only thing,
00:29:29 ◼ ► but I posted the video. Anybody can watch it. If you want to see me and Dan sit in chairs and talk.
00:29:34 ◼ ► Um, we, we, we did, we nailed it to the second on the little countdown timer, but then, and then I had
00:29:39 ◼ ► more briefings and like, it was, it was bananas. So I don't, I don't remember everything about what
00:29:44 ◼ ► we said in there. Uh, but I will say again, I was surprised that even though they didn't really
00:29:50 ◼ ► talk about it, it was very clear that everything Apple showed is in existence is in the betas
00:29:59 ◼ ► and we'll ship this fall. Yeah. And, and they didn't, I don't think they made a big deal about
00:30:06 ◼ ► it, but that is as close as an apology as you're ever going to get, which is everybody beat them up
00:30:14 ◼ ► for the fact that they showed a bunch of stuff they couldn't ship or couldn't ship until very late in
00:30:19 ◼ ► the game. And they've been doing that for a few years where they've showed stuff that they couldn't
00:30:22 ◼ ► ship. But this year it was the worst and they were running ads about features that weren't ready. And
00:30:26 ◼ ► that turns out didn't even ship and haven't shipped. And so this year's rollout was about stuff that's
00:30:33 ◼ ► real stuff. That's in betas and stuff that it's going to ship in the fall. That says a lot. I think
00:30:40 ◼ ► there was some Mark Gurman reporting on this a while ago about the idea of like, they were going
00:30:48 ◼ ► to try and basically make sure now that they would just show what they had. And so they cut it off at
00:30:52 ◼ ► a certain point. I think you can trace what happened with these WWC features back multiple years to when
00:31:00 ◼ ► it started to be like, things started to slip, you know, there'd be features that would slip and then it
00:31:06 ◼ ► kind of became what we're showing will be available within the release cycle. And then once you kind
00:31:12 ◼ ► of start expanding out further and further from that, you get to the point of like, hey, we hope
00:31:17 ◼ ► we're going to ship this and then they don't. And so now they've tightened it back up again.
00:31:23 ◼ ► And I think that's okay. And you know what? I think people will be forgiving if something doesn't
00:31:27 ◼ ► end up shipping in the fall, but ships like in the late fall or early winter, right? Like in
00:31:31 ◼ ► in a November, December update where they're like, okay, you know, quality bar, et cetera,
00:31:35 ◼ ► et cetera. But the idea that you are by default announcing features that you won't even be able
00:31:41 ◼ ► to ship until spring. I think they have realized we can't do that because if it slips further,
00:31:48 ◼ ► we are dead. And, and so we, we just need to not promise. And the fact is Apple has a lot of big
00:31:53 ◼ ► platforms. If they've got some fun features that they want to roll out next spring or next winter,
00:31:59 ◼ ► they can announce them. It's fine. Like they don't, they can hold them until next June or
00:32:06 ◼ ► they can just roll those features in. They're working on them in the background and then roll
00:32:10 ◼ ► them in, uh, as they do OS releases. Uh, I've definitely sat on calls where they've had a beta
00:32:17 ◼ ► release coming and they've wanted to talk about the features that are going to be in the beta release.
00:32:21 ◼ ► like it can be done. So I think that's where they're, that's where they're going now is just
00:32:27 ◼ ► like, if they've got some features that they think that they can get in, in this cycle, but not yet,
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00:34:47 ◼ ► So we'll talk about the betas in a little bit, but kind of like a week out from WWDC, I wanted to get
00:34:53 ◼ ► a vibe check from you now. Like, you know, we were right after the keynote, you know, you're in the
00:34:58 ◼ ► kind of like your head swimming with everything you've seen and it was a big WWDC. So how are you
00:35:07 ◼ ► Again, forgive me because I said some of this, I'm sure, last week, right? But it was just in the
00:35:13 ◼ ► aftermath, right? It's so hard. I'm impressed that I walked away from a WWDC keynote excited about the
00:35:22 ◼ ► Mac and the iPad because then it feels like that never happens. That feels like a real kind of meat
00:35:28 ◼ ► and potatoes. Um, I wrote a piece on this, um, about called Apple intelligence shifts gears,
00:35:36 ◼ ► but one of my feelings about it is it's not a piece so much about Apple intelligence as it is about
00:35:43 ◼ ► Apple's priorities this year, where I felt like Apple, it's like Apple said, Oh, let's go back to
00:35:49 ◼ ► what we're good at last year. It's like, they lost their minds and they're like, we gotta, we gotta
00:35:54 ◼ ► impress the market and, and the, the Valley and show that we're on this AI thing. And it said a lot,
00:36:02 ◼ ► I think about their insecurity about it because they, they missed LLMs and have been struggling to
00:36:07 ◼ ► catch up. And this year it felt much more like, Oh yeah, what, what does Apple best at? We make products
00:36:13 ◼ ► people like, and they use them and they integrate them in their lives and they use them to do stuff.
00:36:17 ◼ ► And so some of the ML announcements, AI announcements are a little bit more like classic, like we're
00:36:21 ◼ ► applying this technology to do a thing. They're like, we're going to let developers use this. We're
00:36:27 ◼ ► going to let users use it in shortcuts. We did all of these product Mac productivity boosters
00:36:31 ◼ ► inside spotlight, including, you know, clipboard manager, which they've never, ever, ever had in the
00:36:37 ◼ ► whole 41 year history of the Mac baked in. Um, and then on the iPad rolling out there entirely
00:36:44 ◼ ► redone windowing model, like to get excited about Mac OS and iPad OS at a WWDC keynote to me is,
00:36:52 ◼ ► it just is really interesting because it shows that Apple is tending to its platforms instead of sort of
00:36:56 ◼ ► freaking out. And like the AI story is there. And I think, you know, I don't want to minimize that they
00:37:03 ◼ ► have challenges there, but like the steps they took are encouraging the fact that there's that
00:37:10 ◼ ► they put chat GPT into image playground, right? Which is just like, yes, because your model isn't
00:37:14 ◼ ► very good. The fact that they are letting third-party developers use the on-device model and shortcuts to
00:37:19 ◼ ► use the on-device model and private cloud compute and chat GPT. There are so many examples like that,
00:37:25 ◼ ► where they are, um, they feel a little less defensive and a little more understanding of the fact that
00:37:30 ◼ ► tending the platform doesn't mean that it all has to be invented by Apple. And my, my top example is actually
00:37:36 ◼ ► the most esoteric for a general audience, but just to throw it out probably again, because I probably
00:37:42 ◼ ► mentioned it last time, I think the Xcode announcement is enormous because they didn't shift
00:37:46 ◼ ► Swift, Swift assist last year. We saw it. And then John Voorhees and I ended up in the same room.
00:37:52 ◼ ► This happened Tuesday. So I know I didn't talk about this. We ended up in the same room with the same
00:37:57 ◼ ► two guys who gave us the Swift assist demo that last, you know, in, in the spring earlier this
00:38:03 ◼ ► year, people were like, did anybody see that after the, that we were talking about the other stuff
00:38:08 ◼ ► that hadn't shipped that nobody had seen. We got a demo in that room of Swift assist didn't ship
00:38:14 ◼ ► this year in that room, we got a demo of Xcode. And what they didn't do is say, well, we've got Swift
00:38:20 ◼ ► assist now running with our LLM. What they said is we've got Swift assist running now with
00:38:25 ◼ ► chat GPT by default. And if you go to the settings, you can literally put in any LLM you want local
00:38:36 ◼ ► remote, put in the URL and the API key, or do the setting to use a local binary. And it just works.
00:38:51 ◼ ► and on top of that, they specifically worked with chat GPT with open AI to have it used by default,
00:38:58 ◼ ► a model that is smart about Xcode and about Swift. So like, I think that is a great example of Apple
00:39:07 ◼ ► this year being a little more relaxed, a little more understanding of its limitations, a little more
00:39:13 ◼ ► open to the idea that people are picking up all sorts of AI tools so fast that Apple baking something
00:39:20 ◼ ► in is just a bad idea. And that is the reality of it. So like getting a real dose of, of what's really
00:39:28 ◼ ► happening on the ground, you know, and, and seeing that Apple gets that, I think that's a really good
00:39:34 ◼ ► sign. So, so, uh, you know, I, I feel like they're in a much better place. It just puts
00:39:39 ◼ ► last year into stark relief about how desperate they were to just, you know, telegraph that they
00:39:48 ◼ ► It makes me wish that the hype cycle was just knocked on by three months. So they wouldn't
00:39:52 ◼ ► have been forced to do what they did at WWDC last year. And we got the full year to now.
00:40:01 ◼ ► I understand why they did what they did last year. I think, I think in the details, in hindsight,
00:40:05 ◼ ► all of us, including them would say they didn't do it right. They made a bunch of mistakes, but like
00:40:10 ◼ ► the AI hype was so great. And the pressure on Apple was so enormous that I understand that they needed
00:40:15 ◼ ► to say, look, yes, yes, we get it. And clearly if Apple was, I mean, one, Apple was behaving
00:40:20 ◼ ► complacently before. I get that. And, and, and clearly there's an issue with the fact that of
00:40:27 ◼ ► what I'm going to say, but like, I'll say it anyway, which is classic Apple maneuvering.
00:40:31 ◼ ► They wouldn't have talked about AI almost at all last year because it wasn't ready. And they were
00:40:37 ◼ ► still trying to figure it out, but they felt they had to talk about it anyway. And so we got
00:40:41 ◼ ► Apple intelligence branding and they tried to, I mean, they try to market their way through it
00:40:46 ◼ ► in a way with all those ads. And, you know, we all saw how it went for them. So, but I understand why
00:40:54 ◼ ► they did it. I mean, they felt under enormous pressure, but then I look at this year and I think,
00:40:58 ◼ ► oh, not only does it seem like more, a more familiar Apple, but if you look at some very particular places,
00:41:08 ◼ ► I think it shows that they've spent the last year plus learning a lot more about where AI is being
00:41:18 ◼ ► used, thinking a lot more about how they want to use it in their products and getting over,
00:41:24 ◼ ► I think expediently because of all the famous kind of issues that are going on behind the scenes inside
00:41:29 ◼ ► of Apple. But getting over there, we need to invent everything thing when like, it's just not, maybe
00:41:37 ◼ ► someday their model will be cutting edge, especially the on-device model. I think, I think that's where they
00:41:45 ◼ ► should put their greatest effort because I think that they have the biggest wins there. But like, I don't know,
00:41:51 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. It was, this is, uh, this WWDC, my, my vibes are basically the same as they were last week,
00:42:00 ◼ ► which is, it's either a good sign or a bad sign. Like this year, it's a good sign. Like last year,
00:42:06 ◼ ► my vibes were similar and it was a bad sign because I was upset. But this year, like I was super happy
00:42:13 ◼ ► with what was announced. And then the things that I've tried, I'm like, I agree. Like, which is not always
00:42:19 ◼ ► the case where like you, they show something like stage manager, right? When they showed stage manager,
00:42:24 ◼ ► like they did it and then you used it and it's like, oh no, they didn't do it. Right. And it,
00:42:30 ◼ ► and it wasn't very good. Like it was just two, three years ago. Um, but I feel like I feel great about
00:42:36 ◼ ► this and there's things that I feel even better about than before. Uh, I watched the two and these are,
00:42:41 ◼ ► I thoroughly recommend that people watch to develop a video, meet liquid glass. Yeah. Uh, even if you're not a
00:42:49 ◼ ► developer, it's not a developer session, it's the design session. So they're just talking like
00:42:53 ◼ ► about design, which you might not like, right? Some people don't like hearing people talk about design,
00:42:58 ◼ ► but I do. Um, and I found this to be fascinating and I thought really informative. And I think like there's
00:43:05 ◼ ► been, you know, I think the prevailing thing that people are talking about is like Apple aren't even
00:43:13 ◼ ► videos, they, they spend a significant portion of the time talking about the ways in which they are
00:43:20 ◼ ► thinking about accessibility. Now you may disagree on whether you think it's accessible. I mean,
00:43:26 ◼ ► I've read from two strong disability, like accessibility advocates who think that Apple are doing a decent
00:43:33 ◼ ► job with liquid glass, but you know, everybody will have their own take on this. Um, but I think that
00:43:40 ◼ ► this video does a very good job of showing their thinking. And it also shows like best, lots of,
00:43:48 ◼ ► lots more best case scenario kind of design, because what is in the current versions of the operating
00:43:54 ◼ ► systems is absolutely not the best case version of this design. Like there's things that they've
00:44:00 ◼ ► got to fix. And I think when you watch that video, if you watch that video, you, I think you'll get a
00:44:05 ◼ ► better sense of, of what I'm talking about, of what they're actually trying to do because a developer
00:44:09 ◼ ► beta is not a final. And I've heard some people are like, no, we can complain about what's in beta one
00:44:14 ◼ ► because the criticism, you know, it's like, okay, but it, they're not done. I mean, it's very clear from
00:44:18 ◼ ► the videos that a lot of this is not entirely implemented yet because it's developer beta one.
00:44:23 ◼ ► Um, but I agree. I, uh, Shelly Brisbane was pointing out, um, that, uh, when iOS seven came
00:44:30 ◼ ► out, there were like, weren't a lot of accessibility features that we have now. Um, which I think is
00:44:35 ◼ ► really interesting. I think this design was absolutely, you can see it in the videos made
00:44:40 ◼ ► with accessibility settings in mind. Now we can talk about whether they belong in accessibility
00:44:44 ◼ ► or like display options or whatever, but like, regardless what they're saying is they're building
00:44:50 ◼ ► a primary design, but they're building all of the ways that you can adjust it based on your own
00:44:56 ◼ ► preference. And that preference might be, I can't see it. And that preference might be, I don't like
00:45:01 ◼ ► it, but that's okay. Giving people options to change how the design behaves to please them. I mean,
00:45:08 ◼ ► I know people who have all sorts of accessibility interface features turned on because they don't like
00:45:12 ◼ ► how it looks and they like it better the way that with those things turned on. And it's like, that's
00:45:16 ◼ ► fine too. I think the, the, the big question for me is if you, if everybody has to reach for the
00:45:26 ◼ ► accessibility settings to, to make this design work, they failed. Yeah. But, but Apple has such a huge
00:45:35 ◼ ► user base that they can't please everybody. So what they want to do is please a large number of
00:45:42 ◼ ► people who will like the interface and find it usable and also be there for the people who think it's too
00:45:49 ◼ ► much and let them turn on those features. And you want to hit a sweet spot. And there is a real
00:45:55 ◼ ► gradient. There's a real spectrum between a hundred percent of iPhone users turn on accessibility features
00:46:08 ◼ ► And if a hundred percent turn on the usability features, that design was a failure, right?
00:46:13 ◼ ► Because the default should work for most people. If, uh, and that would be that they, they, they pushed
00:46:18 ◼ ► it too far and everybody hates it. And what are you even doing? And if it's 5%, let's say maybe that
00:46:25 ◼ ► number is 10 or maybe it's, you know, whatever that number is a small number, you'd say, well, you know
00:46:29 ◼ ► what? People are people and everybody's got a different opinion and that's okay. That's totally okay.
00:46:33 ◼ ► In between those two numbers. That's the question is like, I think that's how you measure how successful
00:46:40 ◼ ► the interface is. Because if the interface is so bad that a very large number of people have to turn
00:46:45 ◼ ► it off or, you know, turn it into something different, then you blew it. But some people, but, but designing
00:46:52 ◼ ► it so that people can choose is good. Like you just want to hit the default to have it be, uh, a crowd
00:46:58 ◼ ► pleaser and not like a super aggressive, everybody hates it kind of thing. And so I think that's part
00:47:03 ◼ ► of their challenge in doing this, but, uh, there's certainly thinking about it because those videos
00:47:07 ◼ ► were all made before anybody saw this and it shows that they were thinking about it. Also that video,
00:47:13 ◼ ► the videos that are the, you know, kind of backstage videos, WWDC, the sessions, as it were, um,
00:47:21 ◼ ► that video is much more, I mean, it's, it's very scripted, but it's much more, Hey, we're designers
00:47:28 ◼ ► who built this and this is how we think it should be used. Whereas the stuff that's in the keynote that
00:47:33 ◼ ► I think turned a lot of people off, that's marketing storytelling for the design videos. And I don't
00:47:38 ◼ ► think there is helpful. Um, I made this, uh, parallel on, I think six colors podcast and I'll make it here,
00:47:45 ◼ ► which is I read uni watch, which is a blog about like sports uniform stuff. And every time a new
00:47:52 ◼ ► uniform design comes out, there's this just impenetrable storytelling that goes with it, where
00:47:57 ◼ ► it's like, we chose the white of the San Francisco fog, the orange of the golden gate bridge and the
00:48:02 ◼ ► gold representing the gold miners in the gold rush of 1949 or of 1849. And you're like, okay,
00:48:09 ◼ ► what I really want to see is the designer saying, all right, here, we need to make a new uniform for
00:48:14 ◼ ► the giants. And here were our options. And here's how we did it. Like I find the storytelling stuff
00:48:19 ◼ ► just sickening. It's just PR and it's dumb and I hate it. And, and the keynote description of liquid
00:48:25 ◼ ► glass reminded me of that. And that's bad, right? That's in a bad way where it's. And so somebody was
00:48:30 ◼ ► like, but the, but the storytelling or, but the PR, they said this thing. And I'm like, you just got to
00:48:34 ◼ ► forget it. You got to let it go in one ear and out the other. Cause that is nonsense. It's just PR.
00:48:39 ◼ ► about liquid glass, watch that liquid glass session. And you'll get a better sense of what
00:48:43 ◼ ► they're actually trying to do where, you know, and I, I mean, again, judge it how you like, but
00:48:48 ◼ ► as a veteran media person, I'll just say the way they rolled that design out in the keynote,
00:48:55 ◼ ► that's just marketing. Like, don't just don't even listen to it. Cause there's no point. If you want
00:49:01 ◼ ► to understand how this design works and what they intended, the storytelling is not going to,
00:49:06 ◼ ► the people moving around their pieces of, of, of liquid glass or of glass on top of that,
00:49:11 ◼ ► like, forget it, just forget about it. But that session is a much more realistic thing about
00:49:16 ◼ ► what they're trying to communicate to developers about how they design their apps in this new system.
00:49:25 ◼ ► but you get a much better sense of what they're trying to do than you do from the kind of highfalutin
00:49:33 ◼ ► Yeah, that was much more high level and it's very high level. And a lot of people do struggle
00:49:39 ◼ ► with hearing that kind of stuff. I like it. I mean, I just like hearing people talk about the decisions
00:49:44 ◼ ► that they made, even if those decisions are like, they feel detached from a sense of reality,
00:49:50 ◼ ► right? Like in that, what you're saying is like, we chose gold to represent that. It's like,
00:49:54 ◼ ► why, like there were decisions that had to be made. People made those decisions and then maybe
00:50:01 ◼ ► they gave them a reason for why they were making that decision and maybe it came after. But I like
00:50:06 ◼ ► that kind of stuff. Like in the same way that I like hearing actors talk about acting. Like I just
00:50:12 ◼ ► always find that kind of stuff interesting. I like to hear people's craft, but it, it is inherently
00:50:18 ◼ ► stuck up maybe is the phrase I'm looking for, right? Like I can't, I can't think of a better phrase,
00:50:24 ◼ ► but it is, you're very much like highfalutin, as you would say, where like you're talking about
00:50:29 ◼ ► these are the reasons I make my decisions. It's like, it can be a bit heavy for people. I,
00:50:35 ◼ ► I loved when they had all the physical, but see, I loved the physical representations of things.
00:50:45 ◼ ► that's what they're doing there. It's marketing. You gotta, you can like it. I'm just saying,
00:50:49 ◼ ► don't, don't, don't think that that is their serious explanation of, of the design. Cause
00:51:04 ◼ ► as saying, here's why we did it. It's a, and how to use it. It's a different purpose, which
00:51:10 ◼ ► is why I really liked that, uh, that session video. Cause it was much clearer about what they're
00:51:16 ◼ ► trying to achieve. And it was therefore to the people that need it, right? Like that was a
00:51:20 ◼ ► session for developers, uh, the people making the apps. If you want to understand how it's supposed
00:51:25 ◼ ► to look in your apps, watch the session where they show you, right? Rather than just the keynote,
00:51:29 ◼ ► which love it or not, you know, like it or hate it or love it or not, like whatever the keynote is as
00:51:40 ◼ ► It is absolutely marketing. That's why they do the state of the union is that it's like,
00:51:43 ◼ ► and now that everybody else is gone, I can talk to developers. Now the keynote is the part of the
00:51:48 ◼ ► developer conference where they're talking to the people that are going to use the software on their
00:51:51 ◼ ► phones, right? I feel like we should know this by now that that is where they are telling customers.
00:51:56 ◼ ► This is what we have made, right? Where then the rest of the content is for the people making the
00:52:03 ◼ ► software. Like that's how WWC goes. Anyway, uh, I wanted to touch on some of the little bits and
00:52:08 ◼ ► bobs that, uh, we've been digging up over the intervening time since the last episode. Now
00:52:13 ◼ ► it's just a few things that I found interesting. Uh, we're going to talk about the, uh, recording
00:52:17 ◼ ► podcast on iPad thing, uh, in a little bit, but the audio input controls are on the iPhone now as well.
00:52:23 ◼ ► Um, so you could always like plug a microphone into, uh, your iPhone and record on it, but you were never
00:52:32 ◼ ► sure which microphone was being picked up by the app that you were using. Uh, but the audio input
00:52:38 ◼ ► selector will be on the iPhone. Um, yes, iPhone and iPad get that where you basically, um, there's a
00:52:44 ◼ ► default, but you can also set it per app. Yeah. Uh, and it happens in the system. The apps don't have
00:52:51 ◼ ► to write an input control, which I don't think they even could. Um, I, in my mind, this makes it
00:52:58 ◼ ► potentially better than on the Mac because there's a system level per app audio control.
00:53:04 ◼ ► That's, um, you know, app developers on the Mac have to build their own audio picker in and on the
00:53:10 ◼ ► iPad, it just is an iPhone. It's just being done for you. And that means, yeah, the, the, um, a lot
00:53:16 ◼ ► of talk about iPad, but like iPhone has a little portable audio thingy. Um, that's very capable is,
00:53:21 ◼ ► uh, it's a real thing. Do you know, does the, can the iPhone do the recording that the iPad can do?
00:53:27 ◼ ► It can. So you do all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could do, I did, Dan and I did a six dollars
00:53:32 ◼ ► podcast where I phoned him. He was like in Seattle at a convention and, uh, I just used the phone audio
00:53:39 ◼ ► and I realized, oh yeah, situations like that. You can say, bring a USB mic and plug it into your iPhone
00:53:43 ◼ ► and start recording, do a podcast and then stop recording and, you know, send the file. And it's a
00:53:50 ◼ ► complete local recording just off of an iPhone. Pretty cool. Uh, Apple podcasts got a few new features.
00:53:56 ◼ ► One of them is an amplify voices option in the podcast app. So that's like the, was voice boost
00:54:04 ◼ ► in overcast, I assume, which I think is great. Uh, trying to level out the audio and podcasts,
00:54:10 ◼ ► which can sometimes be not great. Uh, launch pad. So this is the thing on Mac OS where you could
00:54:27 ◼ ► which is kind of like the app library, which is in spotlight. Yeah. That's how it's been replaced.
00:54:34 ◼ ► So basically there is a list of all of your apps in spotlight. Uh, so if you do, I think it's command
00:54:40 ◼ ► shift and then command one, you get applications view, which is all your apps on your system. But the,
00:54:46 ◼ ► the launch pad thing that they made that was meant to be sort of easier and for people who liked
00:54:52 ◼ ► an iPhone style app launching kind of thing, I am, I can't imagine that very many people use this
00:55:03 ◼ ► It's like, we're bringing a bunch of features back to the Mac from that we learned from iOS.
00:55:07 ◼ ► From the iPhone. Uh, so yeah, but I'm happy that I've actually thought that through again
00:55:12 ◼ ► because I figured that it's probably one of the least used features of Mac OS, but was something
00:55:16 ◼ ► that was important because the applications or just being in a folder is weird. Like when you
00:55:22 ◼ ► think about it, like if you think about it, that is really strange. So having them have a more
00:55:26 ◼ ► elevated place in the operating system makes sense. It makes so much sense to put them here.
00:55:31 ◼ ► Uh, Mac OS 26 Tahoe is the last version of Mac OS that will run on Intel machines. There will be
00:55:38 ◼ ► three more years of security updates though for Tahoe. Um, and for the other devices that were,
00:55:48 ◼ ► Do you have any kind of reflection on Intel going away? Do you have any feelings about it?
00:55:57 ◼ ► Yep. And, uh, it feels like a longer goodbye than they did previously. I think somebody did the
00:56:05 ◼ ► math and it is actually a little bit longer of a goodbye. Um, it's fine. I mean, it needs to happen.
00:56:11 ◼ ► This is, this is the way of things. Um, and it's been a while now since they started shipping Apple
00:56:17 ◼ ► Silicon. And I know that, and again, it's not like those Intel systems are going to be sent a kill
00:56:22 ◼ ► order and stop working. They're just not going to get updates. Uh, and they will still get security
00:56:27 ◼ ► updates for three years after that. And that, that takes it through the lifetime of that, um,
00:56:32 ◼ ► of those devices. So I think it's fine. I think, I think Apple didn't need to be this generous with
00:56:39 ◼ ► their compatibility here. And I also am actually as a Apple Silicon Mac user looking forward to what
00:56:50 ◼ ► And I'm pleased that they're telegraphing it. And I'm being very clear. Oh, sure. Communication a year
00:56:56 ◼ ► in advance and four years in advance of security updates ending. It's very responsible. It's the
00:57:03 ◼ ► iOS 26 offers a new adaptive power mode that will detect how you use your phone and make more
00:57:10 ◼ ► performance updates throughout the day to extend your battery life. Uh, this is part of a big overhaul of
00:57:15 ◼ ► the battery screen. It looks different. You've got information about your current charge level when
00:57:20 ◼ ► you last charged and it has daily usage information. So it can be like, Hey, you're using your, it seems
00:57:25 ◼ ► like you're burning more battery than usual. Uh, this all feels like set up for there's a phone
00:57:31 ◼ ► of a smaller battery coming. Uh, yeah, that's the, that's the speculation. Yeah. That's not,
00:57:36 ◼ ► that's, uh, not unreasonable. Um, people wrote in to say that this is my draft pick and it may be,
00:57:42 ◼ ► but the way they pitch it, um, and the way we envisioned it, uh, it's not like, it's not clear
00:57:48 ◼ ► enough. I was doing, I thought they were going to kind of shout, Oh, we're using AI to, and they,
00:57:56 ◼ ► It's absolutely some form of machine learning, but this is like this weird thing where there's
00:58:04 ◼ ► Um, exactly. It's weird. We'll step, we'll step back from that, but it's, it's good in general
00:58:10 ◼ ► because, um, learning how you use your phone and adjusting how, you know, the battery settings are
00:58:18 ◼ ► set. It's, I mean, it sounds good to me. And yeah, if there is a, a thin phone with a small battery,
00:58:23 ◼ ► this becomes a necessary feature for that. Obviously the swipe to go back gesture that you have. So you
00:58:29 ◼ ► can kind of like swipe from the left edge of your iPhone and it will take you back to the previous
00:58:34 ◼ ► page that you were on. Um, it's, you know, like in any app or whatever, this is now going to work
00:58:39 ◼ ► from anywhere on screen, not just the edge. I think this is fantastic. I've not used this yet. I'll say,
00:58:44 ◼ ► but in my experience of trying out of having an Android phone over the last few months, I like that
00:58:50 ◼ ► you can do the swipe gesture from both sides of the phone and it will take you back. I like this more
00:58:56 ◼ ► because it's more logical, um, that you would just swipe in one direction to go back and one
00:59:00 ◼ ► direction to go forward. It can be a bit weird on Android sometimes, but I like that you can do this.
00:59:05 ◼ ► This is great for one handed use of any phone of any size. So basically if there's not swipable,
00:59:10 ◼ ► uh, if there's not a swipable thing on the screen, you know, like you're not like swiping through a
00:59:15 ◼ ► carousel, it's not going to take you back. But if you're swiping on a piece of UI that is like static,
00:59:19 ◼ ► it will take you back. I think this is fantastic. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm doing it right now and it's,
00:59:23 ◼ ► it's, it's very nice because yeah, even on a, uh, even on an interface element that you can tap,
00:59:29 ◼ ► if you swipe on it, it just goes back. It just takes you back. Love it. Uh, I saw an example
00:59:36 ◼ ► of a developer using the on-device intelligence models that I wanted to share. Charlie Chapman,
00:59:44 ◼ ► Right. Which, which means, which means his official upgrade name is Charlie dark noise.
00:59:48 ◼ ► Charlie dark noise. Thank you. Sorry. Charlie dark noise. Um, says I was able to hack in a magic mix
00:59:53 ◼ ► feature into dark noise in about an hour that creates a mix from a prompt that you can edit and
00:59:58 ◼ ► then save really quickly. And this is fantastic. So one of the things that dark noise does, it's like,
01:00:03 ◼ ► it's a, um, background sound, white noise app. There's like a bunch of them, a bunch, a bunch of
01:00:08 ◼ ► sounds. You can actually combine them. So you could take rain noise and a plane and you could put them
01:00:13 ◼ ► together. But with this, uh, like Charlie, one of the things he types in is like rain forest cafe
01:00:18 ◼ ► is the problem. And it's got like rain and like people noise frogs and cricket. And like, I just
01:00:26 ◼ ► think that's, this looks incredible. This looks incredible. One of the, one of the sessions that
01:00:31 ◼ ► I watched, cause I'm still going through them. I still have a bunch of bookmarked is about how you
01:00:36 ◼ ► use these models in apps. And one of the things that it appears you can do and that, that Charlie
01:00:43 ◼ ► dark noise did is you can say sort of like, here are the things that I've got. So obviously his
01:00:51 ◼ ► feature is like, here are all of the sounds that I can do. And then, and then basically you can tell
01:00:58 ◼ ► the model. So what you're doing is picking from these and, and build it. Cause it's like, how does
01:01:04 ◼ ► it know that there are frogs in the app? And it's like, well, because dark noise has said here, you know,
01:01:09 ◼ ► here's all the stuff, all the sounds that I can make now using that. And this prompt craft,
01:01:15 ◼ ► uh, uh, craft, a bunch of sounds and then pass them back to me in a way that I can then take them
01:01:22 ◼ ► and make a, a playlist is it's, it's really cool. And you see that the kind of like the,
01:01:26 ◼ ► the, the, the smart of it is that like, he didn't make a specific description. Like it's not that he
01:01:32 ◼ ► said, give me rain and animals. And he put in an abstract concept, the rainforest cafe,
01:01:39 ◼ ► and it produced something. Now, did it just make a rainforest sounds? You know, I don't know. Right.
01:01:47 ◼ ► But like it took a prompt, it took his answers and it gave a response. It's like, yeah, that feels like
01:01:52 ◼ ► really good technology that developers can have access to. And it just runs on the devices. Like,
01:01:57 ◼ ► I'm so excited to see more examples of this. Like this is so early and people have got to try and
01:02:03 ◼ ► get their heads around it. But like seeing again, like how quickly Charlie dark noise was able to get
01:02:08 ◼ ► this in place is also like, you know, like a quick version of it. It's very exciting. I think it's
01:02:14 ◼ ► very exciting. Yeah, I agree. Also there was some new parental control features, uh, added to, uh, iOS,
01:02:21 ◼ ► which Apple did like a whole separate press release on. So there's a few things I want to
01:02:25 ◼ ► touch on here. So one, there is now a new API. Well, one of the things they're doing is tidying
01:02:29 ◼ ► up age range ages, uh, for children inside of a family group. Um, so you can go in and like actually
01:02:37 ◼ ► state the ages and that UI is better. Apparently it was awkward before and you can go in and set the
01:02:43 ◼ ► age of your children and it will then change their experience a little bit. One of the reasons they're
01:02:48 ◼ ► doing this is because they've introduced something called the declared range API that a developer
01:02:53 ◼ ► could integrate with. And what that will mean is that the system will say, this person is kind of
01:02:59 ◼ ► about this age. They don't get the exact age. They don't get the birth date, but they get the like,
01:03:04 ◼ ► here's the rough age. Now what Apple doesn't say, and I'm not sure about is if this is maybe some of
01:03:11 ◼ ► their response to some of the legislation that people are trying to put in place around social media.
01:03:14 ◼ ► Like, I think this could kind of be one of their answers of like, Hey, well, here's an API.
01:03:19 ◼ ► Cause I think, I think app makers want the app stores to do it and app stores want the app makers
01:03:26 ◼ ► to do it. Right. If I'm, if I'm remembering that correctly from like a, yeah, I think that's how it's
01:03:30 ◼ ► going. Um, so this is, I guess this is for many reasons, but they can be like, Hey, look, we have an API
01:03:38 ◼ ► And I think, I think Apple wants parents to do it and then doesn't want that information to be
01:03:44 ◼ ► disclosed to app makers or their, you know, or their services so that they can protect privacy.
01:03:51 ◼ ► And there are now laws coming out about this. This is them trying to say, look, this is what we built.
01:03:57 ◼ ► Yeah. I, I mean, without knowing enough, I think this is a pretty decent way of handling this.
01:04:04 ◼ ► Like, so then, you know, you don't have to have someone going in and setting an age and like 12
01:04:09 ◼ ► different applications. Anyway, the app store is getting more variants in age ratings. So apps can
01:04:14 ◼ ► be available for 13 plus 16 plus 18 plus. This was not a thing that hadn't exist before.
01:04:20 ◼ ► A quote from the press release, community safety, sorry, communication safety expands to intervene
01:04:26 ◼ ► when nudity is detected in FaceTime, video calls, and to blur out nudity in shared albums and photos.
01:04:31 ◼ ► They had some features like this in iMessage and stuff before. This is now going to expand into more
01:04:37 ◼ ► places. And they've previously the, the experience for people under the age of 13 on the iPhone came
01:04:45 ◼ ► with a set of restrictions about web content and stuff like that. There is now a new set of
01:04:50 ◼ ► restrictions for 13 to 17 specifically, which is like, from what I could understand is a
01:04:56 ◼ ► different set of web content restrictions by default, which, you know, you can go in and change,
01:05:01 ◼ ► but they set defaults. But for, they also have a new feature where children would need to request
01:05:08 ◼ ► that their parents approve new contacts to be added. And like, so you could use them in messages and
01:05:14 ◼ ► stuff like that. So if you want to send a message to someone that they've not sent a message to
01:05:18 ◼ ► before, it will ping the parent and be like, will you approve this? And then the child can say like,
01:05:23 ◼ ► you know, this is what this is for. And they're all Apple's also launching permission kit for
01:05:28 ◼ ► developers to be able to integrate and do the same that like, if you wanted to follow someone on
01:05:33 ◼ ► Instagram, for example, it could pop up to the parent and tell them if they wanted to integrate
01:05:38 ◼ ► that. So I just thought this is interesting. Obviously, I now pay more attention to parental
01:05:43 ◼ ► control than I've ever done before. Well, like before it was an abstract concept, but for now is part of
01:05:48 ◼ ► my future, I guess, is thinking about parental controls for devices. So yeah, I just thought
01:05:53 ◼ ► this is an interesting suite of stuff that they were doing. And I do believe it is important for
01:06:00 ◼ ► Apple to provide tools to make it easier for parents and children to have better experiences with their
01:06:06 ◼ ► devices and to kind of make it easier for those decisions to be made and less like granular and,
01:06:14 ◼ ► you know, less like, you know, you can maybe feel more comfortable that a device is with a child and
01:06:19 ◼ ► it's going to be set up the way they want. I think this is good stuff. And it is responsible
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01:08:35 ◼ ► Um, I am on, let's see, I have, my old Mac Studio is running Mac OS. My, uh, review unit
01:08:44 ◼ ► iPhone 16e is running iOS. My Vision Pro is running Vision OS. And my primary M4 iPad Pro that I use
01:08:54 ◼ ► every day, I, I charged up the older iPad as a fallback, but I put it on there. So that,
01:09:03 ◼ ► that was the big gamble, right? It's like, am I, am I just committing to this thing being broken all
01:09:07 ◼ ► summer? And I'm going to either have to use a different iPad or just use it broken. Um, but
01:09:10 ◼ ► it's not on, so it's not on my primary iPhone. It's not on my primary Mac. Vision Pro exists to
01:09:17 ◼ ► be on the cutting edge. So it's there. And, uh, so the, the thing I've spent the most time with
01:09:22 ◼ ► is iPad OS actually. Yeah, same. I've only put the B-Tails in two places. One is Vision Pro for the
01:09:32 ◼ ► same reason. The Vision Pro is such a cutting edge device. You may as well just put the
01:09:35 ◼ ► B-Tails on it and just see what's going on. Um, it's also not a critical device for me that if
01:09:40 ◼ ► things don't work the way I expect, that's fine. Um, and I put it on, I have, uh, I have two iPads
01:09:46 ◼ ► Pros. I have the 11 inches, my kind of home machine. And then I have, um, I have a 13 inch here at the
01:09:53 ◼ ► studio, which I use for Cortex brand design work. I put the B-Tail on that one because I wanted to,
01:09:58 ◼ ► I was most interested in trying out the, uh, the new windowing system and it made sense to
01:10:03 ◼ ► have the bigger screen to really get, uh, the full use of that. And, uh, I would say that the 13 inch
01:10:09 ◼ ► iPad Pro has actually been the computer I have used the most, uh, since WWDC because I find it so
01:10:17 ◼ ► exciting. Um, I guess we could start with that maybe then if we're both loving it the most. I think that
01:10:22 ◼ ► this windowing system is just superb. I think it is absolutely superb. And it was made even better
01:10:28 ◼ ► for me by Federico. Um, I was mentioning this on connected, uh, you can actually still use stage
01:10:35 ◼ ► manager and get all of the benefits of all the windowing. Stage manager is divorced from the
01:10:39 ◼ ► windowing system. Now the windowing system is just what it is. And the way they put it to me was it's
01:10:43 ◼ ► just like the Mac stage manager is an optional way to collect windows. That's it. And I love it because
01:10:48 ◼ ► while you can have lots of windows on screen, because the screen is small, it's like smaller
01:10:54 ◼ ► than my studio display or whatever. Uh, I find it not comfortable to have like 12 overlapping windows,
01:11:01 ◼ ► right? If all the apps open that I might want to see. Um, but now when I use stage manager,
01:11:05 ◼ ► I have like five different stages. This is the same as how I use it on my Mac, five different stages.
01:11:10 ◼ ► We have apps that I use together, together all the time. They're always open and I can move between
01:11:15 ◼ ► them and I can still fully resize them, overlap them. It genuinely is like, Oh, this is for me
01:11:21 ◼ ► the absolutely perfect way to use an iPad. Like they crushed it. I love it. And it's fun. And I'm reminded
01:11:29 ◼ ► of all of the reasons I, the iPadOS was my preferred platform for a long time, because I, I do find it to be
01:11:37 ◼ ► just a more enjoyable computer to use. Like it is more fun to use for me than a Mac is. Uh, and yeah,
01:11:46 ◼ ► I've just been having a fantastic time. I bought a, um, a smart keyboard. Yeah, of course you did.
01:11:51 ◼ ► Not thrilled about really. Like I think the smart keyboard kind of ruins what's good about the
01:11:57 ◼ ► new iPads. Like it makes it so heavy and so bulky, but it really makes this system sing. Like having
01:12:06 ◼ ► a keyboard and trackpad just built into the experience. Like it really has made it feel
01:12:11 ◼ ► fantastic. And then you just take it off and, and then it's then a light again. Yeah. But then you've
01:12:15 ◼ ► got to have a second cover like lying around somewhere that you've got a trip. Yeah. Welcome to my world.
01:12:20 ◼ ► Yeah. I don't like it. I don't, I don't like it, but I love the keyboard experience. Um, I would
01:12:25 ◼ ► love it if Apple built a, like a combo somehow, like of a smart folio and a, and a keyboard and
01:12:32 ◼ ► trackpad kind of thing where you could just like, like kind of like surface, like, you don't like
01:12:36 ◼ ► you detach it. I don't want to kickstand though. Like I like that. That's the problem. So I don't
01:12:40 ◼ ► know how they would do it. But yeah. What, what have been your experiences with the, with
01:12:44 ◼ ► iPadOS so far? Uh, I really like, um, I've been very slowly kind of putting my thoughts
01:12:55 ◼ ► Apple has gotten over a lot of its hangups. I think we talked about this last week, the
01:12:59 ◼ ► idea that the iPad was in this weird interim state of like, well, it needs to be more Mac
01:13:05 ◼ ► like, but it can't be more like the Mac. It needs to be its own thing. And then they're
01:13:09 ◼ ► just over it. And they're like, yeah, you know, the Mac is pretty good. We, we could just
01:13:12 ◼ ► use those windowing concepts over here. And I really like it. I think, um, it's not for
01:13:20 ◼ ► everyone. I also go back into single window mode when I'm doing a lot of stuff because I
01:13:25 ◼ ► don't need those windows then. And that's fine. But then it's actually very easy to just get
01:13:30 ◼ ► back. And, and my brain kind of clicks with it. And when I'm using it either in the case
01:13:34 ◼ ► or attached to the studio display, which I also did. And it's, it's eerie cause it really
01:13:39 ◼ ► is just like using a Mac now when you're using it in the studio attached to a studio display.
01:13:44 ◼ ► Um, it's, it's weird cause it's just windows on the screen. Like there's really, can you
01:13:49 ◼ ► close the iPad? You can't, they didn't, they didn't get lid closed in there. Um, so it's
01:13:55 ◼ ► got to stay open. There's like your little buddy on the side. Um, not, not your workout
01:13:59 ◼ ► buddy. No, uh, second screen buddy. Yeah. So, uh, impressed by that. You have also used
01:14:09 ◼ ► it a lot and I would say I've, I've found it surprisingly stable every now and then something
01:14:17 ◼ ► weird happens and I'm like, it's a beta, whatever. I've restarted it a couple of times when weird
01:14:21 ◼ ► things happened, but for the most part, it's been perfectly useful. I had to think where
01:14:25 ◼ ► just, I wasn't getting email for a whole day and then it just started again. It's like, okay,
01:14:33 ◼ ► email, like this is the old email. What, what is happening? And you know, eventually it just
01:14:37 ◼ ► kind of came back. So that's bug. There's bugs. It's developer beta one for Pete's sake, but
01:14:41 ◼ ► in general, pretty usable. Even so, um, I like that you can resize those windows to be any size.
01:14:54 ◼ ► vision OS, like, uh, of, of all of the designs. Like there are a lot of things, whatever size you
01:14:59 ◼ ► want. It worked in vision OS and they're doing it here too. Like, and it looks just like it and
01:15:04 ◼ ► acts just like it. And it's, it's, it's interesting to me in a way that like, I don't understand how
01:15:10 ◼ ► this is working based on what I thought I knew about the way that iOS and iPadOS apps are made.
01:15:16 ◼ ► Um, but I'm like, I, I didn't know that they could do this, that you could have an app be kind of any
01:15:22 ◼ ► physical size that it wants to be. Well, they're supposed to be able to adjust like this because
01:15:28 ◼ ► there are so many variations now that they're supposed to be more flexible. And then if you
01:15:32 ◼ ► carry them over to catalyst, they have to be more flexible still. Yeah. I'm, I'm holding onto the old
01:15:37 ◼ ► size classes mentality, which was how it was for a long time. And that's sort of what, um, the old
01:15:43 ◼ ► windowing system did too, but you know, it's not necessary now. And they, they threw it away and
01:15:50 ◼ ► built something different. Um, you know, my understanding is they, you know, they, they took
01:15:54 ◼ ► a little team and they took a few years and they, they completely rebuilt the entire windowing approach
01:15:58 ◼ ► for the iPad. And that's why it's new and runs on every iPad. And like, and it's just, this is what
01:16:04 ◼ ► it is now. And it's very good. Like, that's the thing is I don't look at it and think, well, it's kind
01:16:08 ◼ ► of janky and broken. It's like, no, it's really good already in developer beta one. There are a lot
01:16:13 ◼ ► of things about it that are really strong. Um, I did. Okay. One thing that I've heard from people
01:16:19 ◼ ► that I totally get is that some people really liked split view. Yeah. And it's interesting that Apple
01:16:25 ◼ ► built split view sort of, if you take two windows and tile them, they look like split view and there's
01:16:34 ◼ ► a little split in the center and you can resize them to any size you want. And I thought this is a case
01:16:40 ◼ ► where I wonder if there should be an affordance for people who want that, where there's like a
01:16:46 ◼ ► shortcut of some sort. Yeah. I mean, the way that it works right now is you just have to drag it to
01:16:51 ◼ ► each side and it will, and it will put on one half or the other half. Like I, yeah, I don't think it's
01:16:57 ◼ ► too difficult. Like now there isn't slide over. There's nothing like slide over anymore.
01:17:02 ◼ ► Nothing like slide over. Well, I mean a window over another window is what that is, but yeah.
01:17:07 ◼ ► Yeah. And I would expect slide over was probably the least used. Uh, I just wonder if they'll get
01:17:12 ◼ ► feedback that like, is there a way to take a user who's in single window mode and give them a shortcut
01:17:18 ◼ ► of some sort? I don't mean necessarily a shortcut literally, but something gestural that allows them
01:17:24 ◼ ► to say, I actually want this window. That's my whole window over there on half. And then I want to pick
01:17:29 ◼ ► another app that could, because I know that some people really do like that feature. Harry
01:17:33 ◼ ► McCracken was talking about it. I was on Twitter yesterday and he really likes that feature and
01:17:38 ◼ ► feels like this is a step backward because he thought that that was a nice kind of like simple
01:17:41 ◼ ► way of doing it. And I don't know how much of that is. It's what people are used to. And I think
01:17:47 ◼ ► it's interesting. I think genuinely this is a much more logical way of initiating split view than the
01:17:51 ◼ ► existing system. I agree. Also, did you notice all of the tiling shortcuts? Because that's the other
01:17:57 ◼ ► thing about this that has not been talked about as much is like all of those tiling shortcuts that
01:18:00 ◼ ► Apple added to Mac OS last year. So you can do like globe, uh, globe shift arrow left, and it just
01:18:06 ◼ ► takes a window and pops it in half on the left half of the screen, um, or globe F for a full screen or
01:18:13 ◼ ► not. All of those keyboard shortcuts work on the iPad. So it's actually, and, and shortcuts has access
01:18:20 ◼ ► to tell a windows to do that. And they're all under the green, uh, button and the spotlight
01:18:25 ◼ ► too. Uh, the traffic lights, they're, they're all in there too. Just like they are on the Mac.
01:18:30 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. So, so all that window management and tiling and stuff is there too. Um, yeah. So I think
01:18:37 ◼ ► it's, I think it's really good. Dan Morin and I recorded last Friday's six colors podcast on,
01:18:47 ◼ ► It worked great. There's nothing, nothing to it. We did. I mean the, the issues were a lot of times
01:18:54 ◼ ► we do live streams like we're doing now. You can't do that on an iPad because you need another app for
01:18:59 ◼ ► that. Um, and we were doing that in discord, which is our live stream. And so we used a different
01:19:08 ◼ ► workflow where we both went in discord and talk to each other on a stage in discord and then recorded
01:19:14 ◼ ► locally. But the files were all fine. They were all good. They're like lossless 48 kilohertz in a,
01:19:22 ◼ ► in an MP4 enclosure, but there, there were lossless audio, I believe. Um, and so that part totally
01:19:28 ◼ ► worked. And then I, I actually thought about editing it together on my iPad, but I didn't,
01:19:32 ◼ ► I edited it on a Mac cause I want to move on to the next thing, but, uh, we did it and it worked great.
01:19:37 ◼ ► So like, that's a, that's a real, uh, possibility for people who are doing podcasts and video stuff.
01:19:45 ◼ ► Like we, we, I just, I'm looking forward to the day where I can say, if you've got your, uh, like if Dan
01:19:51 ◼ ► is going away for a long weekend and we still want to record the podcast on a Friday, but he's going to be in,
01:19:57 ◼ ► I don't know, Delaware, I can say, you know, you just bring your microphone and your iPhone.
01:20:03 ◼ ► You don't even need your iPad and plug it in and wherever you are and then do a local recording and
01:20:08 ◼ ► send it to me. And then you're done. And you've got a podcast at full quality, essentially. That's exciting.
01:20:13 ◼ ► So it, it removes a bunch of barriers, not all, but a bunch of barriers to, uh, certainly to the stuff
01:20:23 ◼ ► that I do where I'm traveling and I need to have extra stuff that I don't want to bring, um, that I
01:20:34 ◼ ► Interfaces do work, but they only work when they're sending a stereo signal down and it
01:20:39 ◼ ► gets mixed down to mono. So you could do it with, uh, you can plug six microphones in onto a zoom
01:20:45 ◼ ► recorder and do it, but you're going to get one track out of it, which if, I mean, recording
01:20:50 ◼ ► multi-track in a room together, there's kind of not a lot you can do with it anyway, but yes,
01:20:55 ◼ ► it will, it will not be, um, it works, but, and that's a, that's a, I filed a feedback about that.
01:21:02 ◼ ► It's like, you, um, if you do a multi-channel interface right now, it doesn't do anything.
01:21:05 ◼ ► It like, it's like, I don't even know what that is. So I feel like they need to do some work there.
01:21:10 ◼ ► Um, you know, they don't have to record, mix down all six tracks in a multi-track interface or
01:21:15 ◼ ► something, but they probably need better UI. And then the one thing that we really noticed,
01:21:19 ◼ ► Dan plugged in his Audio-Technica ATR 2100X to his iPad running beta one. And it was horribly
01:21:28 ◼ ► over-modulated and that microphone, it's hard to adjust gain and volume. It has limited gain controls.
01:21:34 ◼ ► And we realized that the system has no gain controls. And it's interesting because there's a,
01:21:40 ◼ ► there's also a preview, this like blobby kind of sound preview that doesn't do anything. So I think
01:21:45 ◼ ► there's some stuff that's just not hooked up, but I, I filed a feedback that said the system,
01:21:49 ◼ ► if you're going to let me pick a microphone, you should also probably let me adjust the volume
01:21:54 ◼ ► in software. But, um, I used, we used for the podcast, we used a microphone. Each of us used a,
01:22:00 ◼ ► a MV7 from Shure that has on-device gain control. And with that mic, it wasn't a problem at all.
01:22:11 ◼ ► A new world, a new world. Yeah. That you can do stuff like that. So it's exciting. I mean,
01:22:18 ◼ ► I big thumbs up to iPadOS right now is basically what I have to say. I'm really happy with it. I'm
01:22:31 ◼ ► I wanted to touch on VisionOS a little bit because, um, there's some interesting stuff going on there too.
01:22:37 ◼ ► Uh, so one of the things that I wanted to try out, uh, is to see what the new personas look like
01:22:44 ◼ ► and to see if it fixed the beard issue that I have. So long-time listeners will remember that,
01:22:49 ◼ ► uh, I can set up in a persona in VisionOS, but I believe because of my beard, uh, the sensors do
01:22:58 ◼ ► not pick up my mouth moving. And so my chin kind of moves, but my mouth doesn't open unless I open my
01:23:05 ◼ ► mouth, uh, unusually large. Uh, so I wanted to try it out for two things. One, the new personas are
01:23:13 ◼ ► stupendous, like kind of cannot believe how good they are. Like I already thought the spatial personas
01:23:22 ◼ ► looked very convincing. Now it just literally looks like it just actually looks like me on a bad video
01:23:29 ◼ ► call, like a compressed video call. Right. One of the, one of the things as, as good as the old
01:23:34 ◼ ► spatial personas were, if they, if you like turned your head a little bit, it looked kind of like a
01:23:39 ◼ ► face on a box. Uh, it was, you could, you could see that there wasn't a lot of depth there. And now
01:23:44 ◼ ► the, like the sides of your face and stuff are, um, are accurate. And the skin tone is more accurate.
01:23:51 ◼ ► And the, the, they say the like eyebrows and eyelashes are, are more accurate. Like it,
01:23:56 ◼ ► it just looks way better. Um, way it's already, they made great strides. Um, they also told me the
01:24:04 ◼ ► spatial personas are all the default now. Like they're so good that they're like that there's no reason to
01:24:08 ◼ ► have it in another way, uh, in a box. Um, but so yeah, I wanted to do it and I, and I, uh,
01:24:13 ◼ ► I have a blog now, um, called the enthusiast. Yeah. We'll talk about it later. Yeah. Uh,
01:24:17 ◼ ► we'll talk about it. And, uh, I, I put together there some images before and after and some videos
01:24:23 ◼ ► that I uploaded. Um, so yeah, as good as it looks, the mouse still doesn't move. Uh, so, uh, yeah,
01:24:29 ◼ ► it doesn't. They gotta, they gotta figure out a way. Somebody suggested, why don't you,
01:24:33 ◼ ► why don't you shave and capture a persona and then grow your beard back? It's like, no, no, no,
01:24:42 ◼ ► captures his beard once and for all, then shaves off. And then he lives entirely in a persona
01:24:46 ◼ ► of a bearded man. Um, they, you got, there's gotta be a way. I can't believe that this is the
01:24:53 ◼ ► case. Like, I just can't believe that this is the case. Whether it's a training thing where they're
01:24:57 ◼ ► like, open your mouth really wide, whether they do something like kind of fake it, uh, in some way,
01:25:02 ◼ ► just pick up. I mean, there, there is your, your chin jiggles, right? But it never opens all the way.
01:25:09 ◼ ► So like they're picking up signal. It feels like there's just something that they need to do to
01:25:13 ◼ ► detect that it's a beard and more kind of like, uh, uh, expansively, uh, react to that signal in some
01:25:21 ◼ ► way. So I hope that maybe they'll fix that eventually. I, I will say having been in spatial
01:25:25 ◼ ► persona calls with you, you know, you get over it, but it's, it's still not ideal. It's still like a
01:25:31 ◼ ► I love spatial persona calls, but I know I have a vastly better experience than anybody that I'm
01:25:36 ◼ ► talking with. Um, like when I posted this, I often have calls of underscore this way. Uh, and
01:25:43 ◼ ► when he saw the post, he was like, Oh man, like I was really hoping this was going to fix it.
01:25:49 ◼ ► Uh, but it didn't fix it. So yeah, but I, I, I can't believe how good it looks. And then just in
01:25:55 ◼ ► general, uh, with vision OS, the widgets are really nice. Uh, they look really good. They pin to the
01:26:00 ◼ ► walls. You can pin apps to surfaces now too. Yeah. Geographic persistence is really, uh, a feature that
01:26:07 ◼ ► And I wanted to give a clarification cause I've heard people say like, Oh, finally, when you open it up,
01:26:13 ◼ ► windows are in the same place. Two things have happened. They already did that, but just not for
01:26:18 ◼ ► reboot. So like this was a vision OS two point something feature that every time you, as long as
01:26:24 ◼ ► you, you didn't completely discharge the battery, every time you, you put on your vision pro, your
01:26:29 ◼ ► apps were in the right places. They've done this a long time ago, but they wouldn't persist across a
01:26:34 ◼ ► reboot and now it, and now you can, and now you can, there's a new feature where you can lock a window
01:26:39 ◼ ► or a widget to a, uh, surface. Yeah. So you can also say, I want it on this wall and it will put
01:26:46 ◼ ► it on the wall. And then yes, if you go, so that's one of the things that I had in my demo is they took
01:26:51 ◼ ► me in another room and I stepped into the room. And as I stepped into the room, all of these windows
01:26:56 ◼ ► appeared on the walls and widgets and stuff. They all appeared on the walls. And that was because,
01:27:02 ◼ ► uh, it knew that it had been in there before. And so it loaded all the things that were in there.
01:27:09 ◼ ► Um, so that was really, that was really clever. And they had, they had some windows pinned to the
01:27:13 ◼ ► walls too. And I asked them like, what's the deal with, uh, with opening multiple apps in different
01:27:21 ◼ ► places and like, how does it get mixed up and all that? And they said, it's not really a big deal.
01:27:26 ◼ ► Like if, cause the window, like if you're far away from there, the windows aren't actually open,
01:27:31 ◼ ► right? They aren't actually open over there. It opens them when you get there and restores the state.
01:27:36 ◼ ► And so if you're in Safari, you can't be like, I left, it's that classic. I left my Safari in
01:27:40 ◼ ► another room. You don't have to do that still running, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And you just
01:27:45 ◼ ► open Safari and then, and then Safari is in front of you too. And it's okay. They, they, they kind of
01:27:49 ◼ ► smoothed all that out. But if we're, if we're headed for a world down the road and that's what vision
01:27:53 ◼ ► OS is all about where future products need to have this kind of persistence, I think they do the,
01:27:59 ◼ ► if you leave an object, if you, if you set up a, if you set up a TV from the, that sandwich app about
01:28:06 ◼ ► television, if you set that up in a room somewhere, every time you come back to that room, it should
01:28:11 ◼ ► be there. Right? Like that, that, that just makes sense. And this goes for widgets and anything. So
01:28:16 ◼ ► yeah, they did a, they did a really good job. I did get also in that demo, a, uh, an example of what
01:28:22 ◼ ► happens when two people with a vision pro are in the same room together where they're basically doing
01:28:26 ◼ ► share play. They're using stuff that they already have. But what, one of the things that I think
01:28:31 ◼ ► they're sharing, I think these are all connected, right? It's not, it's not three things. Are you
01:28:35 ◼ ► getting it yet? Is geographic persistence also means, uh, it has knowledge of that particular room
01:28:44 ◼ ► geography. So you can share that room geography with another, they didn't say this, but like,
01:28:50 ◼ ► this has to, has to be what's happening is you've got the room geography in common, but
01:28:54 ◼ ► for that to be the case, the device needs to know what the room geography is. So you need
01:28:59 ◼ ► to have that geographical persistence. And then on top of that, you use share play. So like
01:29:04 ◼ ► I had an object shared with me by, uh, an Apple marketing person, and it was like a statue of
01:29:10 ◼ ► an astronaut, but like, you know, he scaled it up and turned it around and I walked around
01:29:16 ◼ ► it and I looked at it and I could, and like we were collaborating on, on this little 3d
01:29:22 ◼ ► model. But the point again, if you're looking at the future, if a lot of people have Apple
01:29:28 ◼ ► vision powered devices, even if it's like 10, 15 years in their air glasses or whatever, there
01:29:34 ◼ ► will come a point when everybody not seeing the same hallucinations is going to be a problem.
01:29:43 ◼ ► You need the ability to work on or see things with other people. And so they, but they had
01:29:52 ◼ ► The other feature that I wanted to try was look to scroll. I just can't get it to work. I don't
01:29:59 ◼ ► know if it's okay. Like there was one moment where I could see that it was in, like it could,
01:30:08 ◼ ► Mark Gurman said in his column on Sunday that he thought he used it and he thought it was great.
01:30:16 ◼ ► Okay. I know it's in there. There's a setting that's on, but I can't do it. I was going mad
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01:31:48 ◼ ► to make meals for herself. She lives alone. She making meals for one person is not the best thing
01:31:53 ◼ ► in the world to do. So we got her Factor meals. So she gets Factor meals every week and we're
01:31:59 ◼ ► learning like what she prefers and what she doesn't prefer. But I think we're all very happy that
01:32:11 ◼ ► And, uh, and I will say again that when we get them here, um, Lauren steals them and takes them to work.
01:32:17 ◼ ► And she is, uh, I would say that if they didn't taste good, she wouldn't do that. She would say,
01:32:22 ◼ ► you eat your, you eat your podcast meals, podcast boy. But instead she takes them to work with her
01:32:26 ◼ ► because they are remarkably good. Um, after heating them up for just a couple of minutes, they, they,
01:32:31 ◼ ► I don't know what the magic is that they've got, but, uh, they actually taste good and not
01:32:36 ◼ ► like, I won't mention other things other than to say that I, they, they vastly surpassed my
01:32:42 ◼ ► expectations for a little thing that you would heat up for a couple of minutes. It, it, it is,
01:32:51 ◼ ► We'll be very good for new parents to factor. Ah, yes. We could give for someone, uh, you can get
01:32:56 ◼ ► started today at factor meals.com slash upgrade 50 off and use the code upgrade 50 off to get 50%
01:33:03 ◼ ► off plus free shipping on your first box. That's code upgrade five zero O F F at factor meals.com
01:33:10 ◼ ► slash upgrade 50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping. That's F A C T O R M E A L S.com slash upgrade
01:33:19 ◼ ► 50 off. A thanks to factor for their support of this show and relay. Let's finish out with some
01:33:27 ◼ ► ask upgrade questions today. John wrote in and said, I watched upgrade on YouTube for the first time
01:33:33 ◼ ► today. I'm normally a listener. My snow talk question, this is an ask upgrade question, but
01:33:37 ◼ ► nevertheless, uh, is what trainers slash sneakers was Jason wearing? They want to know your, your fit check,
01:33:43 ◼ ► Jason. Yes. We had our initial, uh, version and we posted a later version with a better angle,
01:33:52 ◼ ► That was, that was the view I had of you just far on Jason all the way over there. There is this one
01:33:57 ◼ ► point. I don't know if it's in the video. I hope that it is where you knock over a water bottle.
01:34:01 ◼ ► Yes. And I assume it is. I don't know. And I had to just really, really hold it together as I'm
01:34:08 ◼ ► watching Jason with this tumbling water bottle. I adjusted the, the, uh, I moved the cord to be
01:34:16 ◼ ► behind my back, but to do that, I had to move the boom arm and the boom arm was so long that it just
01:34:24 ◼ ► no water was spilled, but I was just, I felt like so trapped in that chair with that arm and the whole
01:34:30 ◼ ► thing. Um, anyway, my shoes are Brooks addiction, walking shoes. It's kind of boring. I have them in
01:34:41 ◼ ► white. I have them in blue. I have them in black. Wow. Uh, yeah, they're just my shoes. They're
01:34:49 ◼ ► walking shoes. They're added stability for, to make my feet happy. That's it. You found the one pair and
01:34:55 ◼ ► you're like, never, never another pair. You know, that's my pair. Well, I had a podiatrist say you
01:34:59 ◼ ► should wear one of these three brands and this is the one I ended up with. So yeah. I'm currently
01:35:03 ◼ ► scrolling through the video to see, is there a point where the, the, the bottle is gone? I think you put
01:35:09 ◼ ► it back on, didn't you? Uh, yeah, yeah, I did. I did. No, you have to look for the moment where the
01:35:15 ◼ ► cord that's in front of my shoulder moves to behind my shoulder. And in between those two points is
01:35:20 ◼ ► where I knocked it over. Um, I think I edited it out of the new angle video. Yeah. Um, and cut to,
01:35:28 ◼ ► it's one of the places where it cuts to you full video. I don't know. Anyway, there was a whole thing
01:35:38 ◼ ► posting a WWDC reaction video a week later is silly. So yeah, we just did the fast version and
01:35:45 ◼ ► then the slightly slower version. Yeah. I, I found them. It's not in there. I found a moment where,
01:35:52 ◼ ► uh, there's the bottles on the table and then it cuts to me for a bit and the bottles on the floor.
01:35:58 ◼ ► Yeah. You put it down on the floor. Uh, so there you go. That'll be, that'll be one for me and for
01:36:04 ◼ ► technically I picked it up off the floor and then put it back down on the floor, but, but I, I made
01:36:10 ◼ ► it not be on the table that could easily be swept by the mic arm. Yeah. Tom writes in and says we have
01:36:16 ◼ ► macOS Tahoe being the last Intel, uh, release. Do you think there will be a bump in Mac sales within the
01:36:22 ◼ ► next couple of years? Or are people still on Intel waiting for the wheels to fall off and not likely to
01:36:27 ◼ ► upgrade until then? I mean, I think it's a bell curve. I think probably the number of people still
01:36:32 ◼ ► on Intel is re you know, reduced every day. Yeah. And so will there be a bump? I don't know. I think
01:36:38 ◼ ► any bump will probably be missed by the fact that it's fewer and fewer people every time.
01:36:45 ◼ ► Um, because so many, I mean, there's so many tempting reasons to do Apple Intel or not Apple
01:36:50 ◼ ► intelligence to do Apple Silicon over the last five years. I think maybe the, the, the pull forward as
01:36:55 ◼ ► they called it during COVID may have actually accelerated their timeline on cutting Intel
01:37:01 ◼ ► because they sold so many Macs. They, well, that helps. Um, and, but we know Apple still talks about,
01:37:08 ◼ ► you know, comparing laptops to Intel. They know that they're still out there. I'm sure there will be an
01:37:14 ◼ ► increase. I'm sure there will be people who, when they can't get the new version, will be like, I guess
01:37:19 ◼ ► I need to update. Those are very slow updaters, but they have value and they're going to get a great,
01:37:26 ◼ ► you know, M five M six kind of Mac when they do. And it's going to be awesome for them. Um, but I don't
01:37:34 ◼ ► know. I feel like that number just keeps going down. If you're running like an Intel MacBook air and you
01:37:40 ◼ ► move to like the M five MacBook air, my word, that's going to be a good time for people.
01:37:46 ◼ ► Yeah. It's going to be wild. So anyway, I, I don't know how big that bump is going to be. I think it'll
01:37:50 ◼ ► be, it will lead some people to decide to update. In fact, the announcement that it's happening next
01:37:55 ◼ ► year will lead some people to update in the meantime. I can imagine it would, it would move some
01:38:03 ◼ ► But, but I mean, you're talking about computers that are already five or six years old. So they
01:38:09 ◼ ► were probably at the end of the cycle. So yeah, I, I'm not saying that there won't be one, but I don't
01:38:13 ◼ ► think it's going to be massive because I think we already saw a couple of massive bumps driven by the
01:38:17 ◼ ► pandemic and driven by Apple Silicon in general. Um, but I also know, I mean, yeah, there are people out
01:38:23 ◼ ► there hold a Mac for five or six or seven years and you know, and they will, I mean, I'm not trying
01:38:28 ◼ ► to call out John Syracuse, but there I said it, I was just about to, I was going to say, I love John
01:38:33 ◼ ► Syracuse. So he's a good friend and I care about him a lot, but it would be hilarious to me. I would
01:38:38 ◼ ► find it very, very funny if they do not update the Mac Pro before the next version of Mac OS, that would
01:38:43 ◼ ► be very funny to me. Yeah. And then you just have to, so, so they're there. I don't know if it's
01:38:53 ◼ ► Sam writes in and says, uh, downloaded the iPadOS 26 beta and I love it. However, I'm disappointed
01:39:00 ◼ ► about the lack of spotlight upgrades. Any idea on if we'll see these, uh, like what's coming to Mac OS
01:39:07 ◼ ► on iPadOS? I mean, no, that's a Mac, that's a Mac feature. Gotta leave something for next year,
01:39:13 ◼ ► hopefully. Like this is something that I do want, especially at the shortcut stuff. I'm like,
01:39:17 ◼ ► oh man, would I love that. And a clipboard? Oh, come on. Maybe I'm misguided here, but I feel like
01:39:23 ◼ ► once Apple implements all of that stuff in spotlight for Mac, I have a hard time imagining it won't come
01:39:29 ◼ ► to iPad. Yeah. Especially. But it won't be this year. I mean, next year. We're in this weird spot now
01:39:36 ◼ ► with the iPad where it's like, oh, they just added all these iPhone features. They'll come to the iPad
01:39:40 ◼ ► next year. And now also they've just added these Mac features to the iPad next year. Is that where
01:39:46 ◼ ► we are now? That appears to be. Yeah. Well, and keep in mind that that would include clipboard
01:39:50 ◼ ► history, which I think would be amazing on iPad and iPhone as well. They should do it. They've got an
01:39:56 ◼ ► interface for it now. That spotlight stuff feels very iOS-y, right? It does. The shortcuts and all that.
01:40:02 ◼ ► I know. I think they built it on Mac as proof of concept and then it will go back to the iPad.
01:40:09 ◼ ► Including like launching shortcuts with keyboard commands. Come on, man. Are you kidding me?
01:40:21 ◼ ► had a lot this year, right? I could see where they're like, you know, this is what we're focusing
01:40:26 ◼ ► on with iPad. And then on the Mac, they're like, we've got this thing where we're going to really
01:40:30 ◼ ► update Spotlight. But Spotlight is everywhere. So I have a hard time imagining those Spotlight
01:40:34 ◼ ► upgrades won't come to the other platforms. It requires some, you know, different kind of
01:40:40 ◼ ► engineering for that platform. But I have a hard time imagining that that isn't a future plan.
01:40:44 ◼ ► And Andy says, regarding the iPad audio updates with iPadOS, the audio system is hardly more
01:40:50 ◼ ► flexible than before. Apple hasn't provided a new set of rich APIs to let audio apps flourish and
01:41:00 ◼ ► Are we giving up on hoping for changes that give us an API and a future development area and just
01:41:11 ◼ ► I think fundamentally, here's what I'll say. I don't think Apple wants audio hijacked to work
01:41:18 ◼ ► on the Mac or iPad. I just don't think it does. I think it does not want to give that level of
01:41:24 ◼ ► system control to apps running as utilities. And so what it's decided to do is build in solutions to
01:41:32 ◼ ► these problems at a system level. And like if Apple is integrating recording of audio, selecting of input
01:41:40 ◼ ► devices at a system level that suggests to me that, uh, they don't want to let audio apps flourish.
01:41:50 ◼ ► I will also say a lot of what they're doing. I mean, I mentioned this earlier, a lot of what they're
01:41:55 ◼ ► doing is superior to what's on the Mac because on the Mac, I mean, Mac audio, like low level built in Mac
01:42:05 ◼ ► audio is terrible. Like it's been terrible for years. The fact that you need all of those utilities
01:42:11 ◼ ► to do things that the system should probably just let you do, you should probably be able to route
01:42:16 ◼ ► audio and record specific apps. And like, you should probably just be able to do that. And, and the sound
01:42:23 ◼ ► system preference panel is so limited. And that's why audio hijack and sound source and a bunch of these
01:42:29 ◼ ► other apps have to exist is because Apple just doesn't do it and doesn't think it's important
01:42:35 ◼ ► on the Mac. I find that baffling, but that's just how it is. The fact that they built these things for
01:42:40 ◼ ► iPad and I, and, and iOS too, is I think really interesting because it's Apple actually having to,
01:42:48 ◼ ► to conceptualize those features that they just never bothered with on the Mac side, where there's just
01:42:55 ◼ ► like a default and we, they don't care. So I don't know. I, I, I am, are we giving up on hoping
01:43:02 ◼ ► for changes that give us an API and a future development area? Yes. I think they're not going
01:43:07 ◼ ► to do it. I think that, I think that they have the audio routing is like a bridge too far and that what
01:43:12 ◼ ► they're going to do is build some system features in instead. Um, I, what I hope will change in the long
01:43:19 ◼ ► run is that the iPad and iPhone, especially the iPad with multi windows and all of that,
01:43:25 ◼ ► they still need to do more work in terms of if I've got multi windows and one of them's, you know,
01:43:31 ◼ ► playing and one of them's recording or two of them are playing audio simultaneously, like I should,
01:43:36 ◼ ► that should work. Right. Cause that's how the Mac works. And right now you still have those instances
01:43:40 ◼ ► where you're watching video and then streaming through scrolling through your timeline and a video
01:43:45 ◼ ► auto plays and it stops the video you're watching in the other window. It's just, it's stupid. Like a
01:43:49 ◼ ► question. I don't know. Like some, you know, when we're recording, I'm building show notes, right? And
01:43:53 ◼ ► sometimes one of the show notes is a YouTube video that starts playing. If I'm recording a podcast on my
01:43:58 ◼ ► iPad and that happens, what happens? Like I genuinely don't know. It stops recording. Jeez. I believe.
01:44:05 ◼ ► See that is like that as bad. This is the thing of like, am I happy that they've thrown me a bone with
01:44:11 ◼ ► this? Yes. Cause it's something I wanted. It's a pet feature that I wanted and they give me that
01:44:15 ◼ ► feature, which is great. But what I, I don't, I don't, I'm not particularly holding a candle for
01:44:20 ◼ ► them to create a set of APIs so people can make audio recording apps. It'd be nice, but like,
01:44:25 ◼ ► whatever, I'm going to take what I can get, but I want the general system feature of multiple audio
01:44:31 ◼ ► sources being played at one time to be possible. Like, you know, I mentioned this before, but like
01:44:37 ◼ ► being able to watch a live stream of someone reacting to a video whilst also watching the
01:44:42 ◼ ► main video. So like I can watch a sporting event and watch a YouTuber talk about it at the same time.
01:44:47 ◼ ► I don't need both sets of audio to be playing at the same time, but I just need the system to
01:44:52 ◼ ► understand the concept of multiple sources playing media at the same time. And then I can handle those
01:44:57 ◼ ► because sometimes if most apps, it will pause one and play another. It's like, well, I don't want you
01:45:02 ◼ ► to do that. You are capable of doing both of these. Yeah. So don't get me wrong. I mean, I would love it
01:45:07 ◼ ► if Apple were able to enable sophisticated or willing to enable sophisticated audio routing
01:45:15 ◼ ► and recording and other utilities like that on iPad. But I think these features suggest that they would
01:45:22 ◼ ► rather just build some functionality in that solves some problems and then moves on. And, uh, and they do
01:45:29 ◼ ► have other audio issues as Mike just detailed, like there are other, uh, there's a lack of
01:45:38 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question of your own, or you would like to send us in some feedback
01:45:44 ◼ ► or follow up, you can go to upgradefeedback.com. Uh, thank you to our members to support us who
01:45:50 ◼ ► upgrade plus, uh, this week, I think we might talk about my blog a little bit and some other behind
01:45:55 ◼ ► the scenes, WWDC stuff. You can get longer ad free versions and bonus content every week by going
01:46:01 ◼ ► to get upgrade plus.com. If you want to find this show on YouTube, where you can sometimes see Jason's
01:46:07 ◼ ► shoes, uh, you can go on YouTube and search for the upgrade podcast. Uh, thank you to factor delete me