The Accidental Tech Podcast

102: Marco Is Not a Platform


00:00:00   it so you want to some follow-up we can start with handwriting recognition which [TS]

00:00:12   I'm assuming is more of John's follow-up yeah I don't know why none of us thought [TS]

00:00:17   of this fairly because for all westerners the one thing we didn't talk [TS]

00:00:21   about with iPads and styluses or style I is that handwriting recognition is good [TS]

00:00:29   text input with a with a pen is good for people who don't write with fuhrman [TS]

00:00:34   characters who have tons and tons of characters Chinese Japanese span the [TS]

00:00:38   button to those with the keyboard because I had this crazy multi-level [TS]

00:00:41   keyboards but you you know that one kidnap another time another work your [TS]

00:00:46   way down to the actual character you want to combine multiple task to make [TS]

00:00:49   one thing where these people know how to draw up with you just gave him a penny [TS]

00:00:52   so you can recognize that it's actually way more convenient to trying to use a [TS]

00:00:56   keyboard so that I mean I don't know if that's harder or easier than recognizing [TS]

00:01:01   harder than recognizing you know regular room characters that we have but it's [TS]

00:01:07   definitely if you can get it to work it's definitely more convenient for the [TS]

00:01:11   person in putting the characters than hunting through some crazy keyboard yeah [TS]

00:01:15   absolutely I will say that [TS]

00:01:18   friend a friend of mine will hands he had shown me he lives in tokyo despite [TS]

00:01:24   having grown up in Australia and he has shown me the Japanese keyboard I'm sure [TS]

00:01:29   there's like a name poorly kanji or something like that that's probably [TS]

00:01:31   wrong tool but anyway he showed me the Japanese keyboard which involves your [TS]

00:01:34   drawing these little characters on the bottom of the screen very much like the [TS]

00:01:39   palm was way back in the day and as someone who has never seen it before it [TS]

00:01:44   was amazing it was extremely cool and i could see how having a styles make it [TS]

00:01:47   that much better spent on the chat rooms telling us that [TS]

00:01:52   very few people right with characters these days most most of the young people [TS]

00:01:55   because everything is digital just deal with the crappy and systems so it could [TS]

00:02:00   be that everyone gets over this and they forget how to write their traditional [TS]

00:02:03   characters I don't know I mean like we've been getting on the people on the [TS]

00:02:07   forums have been getting along without this for a long time with these these [TS]

00:02:10   various acts of keyboards that hierarchies to them are proceeding like [TS]

00:02:14   systems for you do a series of strokes to sort of narrow down and you know [TS]

00:02:17   that's kind of like auto complete for individual characters which represented [TS]

00:02:20   tire wear their ideas so we may be are already be passed as ronald was worried [TS]

00:02:30   someone from the Far East to come on the program and tell us whether you like but [TS]

00:02:34   it's hard to say how to talk about this later when we talk about Apple's [TS]

00:02:38   earnings how things playing countries other than the United States and what [TS]

00:02:41   those markets really want and it's very difficult to tell how much of what Apple [TS]

00:02:46   does is influenced by people and cultures that we know nothing about yeah [TS]

00:02:51   absolutely I as a quick aside Marco tips car has the eye Dr handwriting [TS]

00:02:57   recognition is that correct it does yes do you use than ever I tried it I think [TS]

00:03:02   once and I and it was it was really worth it because it was it was actually [TS]

00:03:07   slower than just using the wheel around picking letters yet another character in [TS]

00:03:11   1908 the character anyway and it recognizes it and just be cut because of [TS]

00:03:17   the the leg and hearing those steps it just wasn't really any faster than using [TS]

00:03:22   the wheel so I just use the wheel now when I drove her car off I mean it's not [TS]

00:03:27   a one-to-one comparison but it was the closest that I can think of off the top [TS]

00:03:32   of my head you could possibly argue it's better for safety that you're not [TS]

00:03:35   looking at the screen as much in practice that's not true in practice it [TS]

00:03:38   is just as distracting as using the wheel and you start to look at the [TS]

00:03:41   screen just as much so I just tried to enter navigation directions while in [TS]

00:03:46   moving that seems like the smartest approach yeah right so we had a very [TS]

00:03:50   interesting email from Matt Chandler and I really wanted to talk about this and [TS]

00:03:55   then I thought well maybe that's mean of me and then someone else who was not [TS]

00:04:00   mean I'm guessing is not Marco added it to the show no [TS]

00:04:03   his wife margot should look at the shadows before this question is directed [TS]

00:04:08   damn oh you picked out this one oh boy ok so from Matt Chandler I listened to [TS]

00:04:16   Marco on the talk show the episode now it's all floppy where he discussed how [TS]

00:04:20   Apple's feedback system is quote extremely hostile quote because among [TS]

00:04:24   other reasons you get no feedback a response from Apple when you file a [TS]

00:04:27   radar I was surprised by this is some of my friends and I have filed bug reports [TS]

00:04:30   were overcast both your twitter twitter an email and have never received [TS]

00:04:34   feedback any feedback no formal response tweet or favourite on Twitter this [TS]

00:04:39   didn't bother me as I didn't expect a response but I wondered why Marco called [TS]

00:04:42   this behavior by Apple extremely hostile while he takes the same approach with [TS]

00:04:46   overcast es overcast smaller but it certainly received much less feedback as [TS]

00:04:50   well thanks to the great show and market thanks to the great work on a protest I [TS]

00:04:54   can answer this one of you want the reason I'm here is not because [TS]

00:04:57   necessarily about Marco had to answer but I feel like anybody answer Casey do [TS]

00:05:00   you wanna answer Marco I know can answer and I can answer it can anyone in the [TS]

00:05:04   audience not answer this I mean I'd I'll be curious to hear both of your answers [TS]

00:05:11   to me it seems pretty obvious that even in operation the size of overcast if if [TS]

00:05:18   one were to acknowledge every single bug requested report and feature requests [TS]

00:05:23   that that would be a tremendous mountain of just thanks and ok and I got it and [TS]

00:05:30   do and its letters and I just I can see why Marco wouldn't want to do that but [TS]

00:05:36   mark but the difference is Marcos business isn't already feel like this [TS]

00:05:41   week argument but Marquez businesses in to make other people's bug reports his [TS]

00:05:47   job where is when when you're providing developer tools that kind of is your job [TS]

00:05:53   John what was your answer john hasn't well I think Matt Chandler knows the [TS]

00:05:57   answer to yes overcast smaller you think that a little bit slower than Apple may [TS]

00:06:02   be a little bit smaller than a bond that share more we have checked Marcos [TS]

00:06:04   earnings for this year to see if their old in eighteen billion dollars in [TS]

00:06:09   profit this quarter and sank you double check I didn't quite hit that target yes [TS]

00:06:14   overcast a smaller but it certainly seems much less feedback about exactly [TS]

00:06:18   it is smaller and proportionately receives I see how much smaller than [TS]

00:06:22   Apple is overcast and what proportion of this thing you know so that's one thing [TS]

00:06:27   I was recognized one person he would spend all day all this time to stand [TS]

00:06:31   apart in the second case already covered it is not a platform is not publishing [TS]

00:06:36   API is for people to write code against Turkey has no developers there is no [TS]

00:06:40   overcast Developer Program there's no Marco Arment developer program you know [TS]

00:06:44   people are not paying for a membership to a thing to be supported you're merely [TS]

00:06:48   customers sending a report now all that said that's not to say that he shouldn't [TS]

00:06:53   give responses or responses personal responses or whatever to the degree that [TS]

00:06:58   he feels like he can do sort of the dangle jacket I give you amazing [TS]

00:07:02   exceptional customer support he should by all means that is a good thing to do [TS]

00:07:06   that but on the list of priorities responding to every single bug report [TS]

00:07:11   and giving it acknowledged that it was received [TS]

00:07:15   are probably pretty low for a one-person shop that's doing all the stuff that [TS]

00:07:19   Marco is doing so i don't i don't say it like he shouldn't send responsible [TS]

00:07:25   shouldn't expect one but the explanation for why there was no response and why he [TS]

00:07:30   might say it's extremely hospital for Apple tonight send response is fairly [TS]

00:07:33   clear its hostile for Apple because Apple does not have any constraints that [TS]

00:07:38   would make it have to be such a big black hole [TS]

00:07:40   we know that mean look at a preview their hiring people to look at every [TS]

00:07:45   single these [TS]

00:07:47   Gillian apps that come in if Apple want to do this and it and it is a priority [TS]

00:07:51   to have more than enough money and resources and expertise to do this so [TS]

00:07:57   that's why it's hot sale for Apple because from a political choices like [TS]

00:08:01   prioritization of something that we think should be much more important [TS]

00:08:03   doubtful that it is and we know they have the resources doin Marcus case you [TS]

00:08:07   could still be angry at him because he got exceptional support but they're [TS]

00:08:10   one-person operation because they value support more than he does but if Marco [TS]

00:08:13   shifts to to do support differently he's got to pull from someplace else so what [TS]

00:08:18   other part of marcos business do you think he should sacrifice to make sure [TS]

00:08:21   that everybody is that the bug report gets a reply [TS]

00:08:24   you know that's the user tradeoffs that he makes and you can argue whether the [TS]

00:08:28   right tradeoffs whether you like that kind of company but I don't think you [TS]

00:08:31   should be confused about why Marco can call Apple extremely hostile for doing [TS]

00:08:36   the same thing he does because he's not happen they're so different than [TS]

00:08:39   different standards apply to Marco this is gonna be possible controversial not [TS]

00:08:47   that I should be that surprised or anybody who knows me by surprise by me [TS]

00:08:51   producing something about to say with that there should be good wait let me go [TS]

00:08:56   make some popcorn hold that thought the the sad truth is that it is not worth [TS]

00:09:02   answering your email [TS]

00:09:04   you at you plural not like you know you this guy you everybody in general on [TS]

00:09:09   average it is not worth insuring your email let me go into why that is I don't [TS]

00:09:14   say this to be a jerk I'm saying this literally as like it just simple time [TS]

00:09:20   constraints and economics so so here's how this works this morning so usually I [TS]

00:09:26   go to the overcast feedback email in the evening or or like before bed on the [TS]

00:09:33   iPad along with you a lot there because I respond to almost none of it really [TS]

00:09:39   almost none I respond two maybe three or four emails a day from that account [TS]

00:09:44   since last night when I last cleared out I've received two hundred and seven and [TS]

00:09:50   they're still three more hours today before I got a bit I expect to receive [TS]

00:09:54   may be tuned and 2,250 we'll see what happens [TS]

00:09:57   that's that's pretty pretty typical most as ever I receive between 60 and 200 I'm [TS]

00:10:02   going to mourn out there is there some stink bugs I'm trying to squash when you [TS]

00:10:06   buy my amp so i'm i'm a one-person company I blogged about how much I made [TS]

00:10:10   it was like a hundred and sixty thousand before expenses and taxes and all that [TS]

00:10:14   stuff last year so you know that's really what I make it it's like it's one [TS]

00:10:18   developers good salary it's not stunningly great it's just a good [TS]

00:10:22   developer salary for the level experience I have that's not so much [TS]

00:10:26   that would make a lot of financial sense for me to hire a support person for [TS]

00:10:31   instance like you know and and I tried I have tried outsourced support services [TS]

00:10:35   in the past I've had very mixed results with them and I question whether that [TS]

00:10:41   whether that was money well spent at all [TS]

00:10:44   I could also attempt to answer more emails by using text expander to make [TS]

00:10:50   make my few like form answers and just send those to everybody and I did that [TS]

00:10:53   for the first couple of months of overcast and I question whether that's [TS]

00:10:57   better than not answering them at all because and and I should point out that [TS]

00:11:02   they had a similar conversation as a few months back [TS]

00:11:05   is is it something that you're pretty sure he is like a forum responsive [TS]

00:11:10   template response is that actually better than no response at all it is is [TS]

00:11:15   a response that is clearly insincere and I didn't put all the time into is that [TS]

00:11:19   really a good thing like it that's that's a pretty bad as well [TS]

00:11:24   the simple fact is when you get two hundred support emails a day and you're [TS]

00:11:29   one person and you know my job is not answering email my job is making the [TS]

00:11:33   product making it work for everybody and responding to emails supporting this is [TS]

00:11:38   email in general [TS]

00:11:39   responding to email is one of the least time efficient things you can do it [TS]

00:11:44   really like and of course invariably why you respond you know who you responding [TS]

00:11:48   to and for what [TS]

00:11:49   but in general responding to email is is an extremely inefficient use of limited [TS]

00:11:56   time because you are taking your time to produce something that's only ever gonna [TS]

00:12:02   go to one person whereas if you like if I spent that time instead fixing the [TS]

00:12:07   bugs that everyone's complaining about them than to fix for everyone and and or [TS]

00:12:13   you know or if I can make the product better in some way for everyone that's [TS]

00:12:17   how that's way better use of that time then responding to every email [TS]

00:12:21   one-by-one saying thanks reporting looking into it or things on that to fix [TS]

00:12:24   the state's the next version of the universe is pending approval like it's [TS]

00:12:28   so it's such a better use of time in an ideal world you have time to do both I [TS]

00:12:33   recognize that but this is not an ideal world this is reality and reality when [TS]

00:12:37   you're when you have an app that is free up front and at the most you can ever [TS]

00:12:41   hope to make from somebody is $3.50 before tax it's really hard to justify [TS]

00:12:46   spending a ton of time [TS]

00:12:49   on answering individual emails and I knew that going into it and you [TS]

00:12:53   therefore Instapaper so the entire app is designed in such a way that it sets [TS]

00:12:59   expectations accordingly you'll notice in the app nowhere does it say support [TS]

00:13:05   it only says feedback and on the feedback link first before lets you [TS]

00:13:11   email it it shows you a page with an FAQ and known bugs and what's being fixed in [TS]

00:13:15   this version with it so to speak to try to address what you're about to tell me [TS]

00:13:20   so maybe don't tell me maybe you can help yourself maybe you can save [TS]

00:13:24   yourself the time sending that email certainly is the time to read it or [TS]

00:13:27   insert and its and it says right there I will read every email which by the way [TS]

00:13:34   even that takes a lot more tonight that I would have expected when I wrote that [TS]

00:13:39   I read every email and I sailor every man but I also say I just one person [TS]

00:13:45   with limited time and so I cannot guarantee response and the results that [TS]

00:13:52   is I respond to most of them it because I literally don't have the time I would [TS]

00:13:57   so much rather spend that time fixing the bugs and making the appt better for [TS]

00:14:02   everyone then responding to one person and I know that sounds corny I know that [TS]

00:14:06   sounds harsh but that's the reality that's like what you're paying so little [TS]

00:14:11   for apps that's kind of part of it that kinda had what you have to expect from [TS]

00:14:15   that like that's all involved in this and so the reason I don't answer my [TS]

00:14:21   email most of the time is because it's not because I'm a jerk as at least in my [TS]

00:14:26   opinion and you can make your own evaluation of that it's not because I'm [TS]

00:14:29   trying to be a jerk it's because it is really I decided it really is just an [TS]

00:14:34   incredibly bad use of time and I know it's not going to please everybody but I [TS]

00:14:39   think it will please the most people overall for me to be doing things that [TS]

00:14:43   make you a better for everyone [TS]

00:14:44   rather than spending three hours a day answering him oh I don't remember if [TS]

00:14:49   I've ever told the story publicly but I feel like I have I have a couple of [TS]

00:14:55   thoughts first I remember vividly that I [TS]

00:14:59   when we you and I kind of got reacquainted so to speak as we were old [TS]

00:15:04   friends kinda fell out of touch not an angry way just fell out of touch and [TS]

00:15:07   then we were starting to get back in touch and I would send emails to [TS]

00:15:11   periodically and this was when number was really starting to take off and [TS]

00:15:15   Marco Arment was starting to become like a thing more than it was just a person [TS]

00:15:20   and I would send you emails Marco and I would never get a reply or I would get a [TS]

00:15:25   reply [TS]

00:15:26   really really late I remember one time and I were on our way to New York when [TS]

00:15:30   this was when you ended up visiting you at we were on our way to New York to [TS]

00:15:34   visit and I think I tweeted about it or something like that and you were like [TS]

00:15:37   wait you're on your way to New York and I said yes I emailed you about that like [TS]

00:15:41   two months ago you said you did God didn't annoy me so much at the time but [TS]

00:15:47   then fast forward a few years and suddenly I'm on a podcast and weekend [TS]

00:15:54   email oh did we get email in fact we even got an email about how we tell [TS]

00:15:59   people not to send us email which actually made some really good points [TS]

00:16:04   but I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of it but anyway in so I don't [TS]

00:16:11   know how to explain it other than however email however much email that [TS]

00:16:16   you the listener gets there's a decent chance that those of us on the show [TS]

00:16:22   get more than that and marco gets more than that still and the other thought I [TS]

00:16:26   had is how many shows across how many podcasts have talked about how email is [TS]

00:16:33   such a problem there was that wonderful episode of hello internet I think Mike [TS]

00:16:37   and I have talked about this on analog God knows that Merlin has talked about [TS]

00:16:40   this constantly and and for good reason [TS]

00:16:44   the reason everyone complains and moans about email is because email is kind of [TS]

00:16:50   an inherently selfish thing that nobody really deliberately signs up for it it [TS]

00:16:55   just kind of happens to them and and so how you deal with that you know you do [TS]

00:17:02   the best you can and that's when Marcos doing yeah that's that's really it like [TS]

00:17:06   again I'm not trying to be a jerk by not responding to most of the email I get [TS]

00:17:10   it's like it's almost like a defense mechanism I have to defend the night [TS]

00:17:15   time attention because if I did respond all that email all these bug fixes and [TS]

00:17:20   improvements and things I'm making would all take longer to come out and I [TS]

00:17:25   wouldn't be able to do as much you could spend their entire day just an email [TS]

00:17:30   because remember that email once you respond now you're engaging with that [TS]

00:17:33   person and Mike from that person's perspective assist them and you want [TS]

00:17:36   from your perspective you're holding now 200 simultaneous conversations [TS]

00:17:40   maintaining state in each of those conversations remember who that person [TS]

00:17:43   is a mother said previously imagined you know you gonna do 200 emails support [TS]

00:17:48   emails today if you responded all two hundred 200 send a response back then [TS]

00:17:52   the tomorrow starting you know two hundred and you start responding to the [TS]

00:17:55   like you will spend 100% of your time conversing over email for a with people [TS]

00:18:00   who have problems with your $5 application right and you were just one [TS]

00:18:05   person and chat rooms I'm describing a CRM says yes when you have a staff of [TS]

00:18:09   people you can do that but for a small business there's one person doing all [TS]

00:18:14   the work if that one person said I really need to support my customers [TS]

00:18:19   that's all that one person would ever do they were never fix a bug never write a [TS]

00:18:24   new version for program never create a program never do anything else never do [TS]

00:18:27   a podcast never have any sort of extracurricular activities they were [TS]

00:18:30   just spend all their waking hours conversing with individuals over email [TS]

00:18:33   about the problems they're having with their application and never have any [TS]

00:18:36   time to investigate and so it may be to say well you should expand your company [TS]

00:18:40   should have one person company or whatever but like the Georgian this [TS]

00:18:43   question is about hypocrisy of how can you say so angry about Apple doing [TS]

00:18:47   something that you yourself do different context that the conditions are entirely [TS]

00:18:53   different therefore the conclusions are absolutely and and the input that the [TS]

00:18:57   email gives me is very valuable like the by by the emails alone the emails can [TS]

00:19:04   help me decide if I have a few big feature that I wanna do next [TS]

00:19:08   the emails decide what comes first [TS]

00:19:10   and decide things like for example I've mentioned it a couple times my big [TS]

00:19:15   feature plan over this winter was to do streaming and I started screaming a [TS]

00:19:20   little bit last fall and I haven't worked on it since for two reasons [TS]

00:19:24   number one is that they're just keeps the keeping other things that keep [TS]

00:19:26   coming up [TS]

00:19:27   bug fixes sync issues watch get the fight that but the number two is that by [TS]

00:19:33   reading the email and by reading all the tweets which is even more even more big [TS]

00:19:37   stuff coming in that way I can see very clearly that streaming is not what I [TS]

00:19:44   should be doing next what I need to be doing next [TS]

00:19:46   which is what I am doing next is auto delete control there right now the actor [TS]

00:19:52   that's how I listened and I don't care like once I'm done with it and everyone [TS]

00:19:56   here again like that's it I'm done and I thought that's how the app could always [TS]

00:20:00   work to keep things very simple with like the different states an episode can [TS]

00:20:04   be in and things like that a lot of things very simple that is by far and [TS]

00:20:08   away the number one request the number one complaint and the number one reason [TS]

00:20:12   people choose not to use my app is I don't have that control the finer [TS]

00:20:16   control over over whether something get deleted or not and when it gets deleted [TS]

00:20:19   by far that's way more important than streaming based on what people are [TS]

00:20:24   telling me what they've been telling you for months and so you know I wouldn't [TS]

00:20:28   have known that had it not been for the email at the same time I get I would say [TS]

00:20:33   literally 40 emails a day about the head for a while and all them it took hours [TS]

00:20:40   it takes longer just to read them even that like and I said I read all my email [TS]

00:20:45   I'm not necessarily sure that will be the case you see a future in which I say [TS]

00:20:51   I can't even keep up with the reading at all anymore but even that like reading [TS]

00:20:56   it takes probably probably order of magnitude less time than responding to [TS]

00:21:02   it and even that's hard to keep up with that's how much you talking about [TS]

00:21:08   that's something that's a little more positive than how much he held the Hawks [TS]

00:21:11   you have any ideas Marco well it's not email it is where space Squarespace the [TS]

00:21:18   all-in-one platform makes it fast and easy to create a professional website [TS]

00:21:21   portfolio and online store for a free trial and 10% office where space.com [TS]

00:21:26   enter offer code ATP at checkout now they emailed me something earlier today [TS]

00:21:31   this is kind of cool so I guess that's coming up pretty soon [TS]

00:21:35   that's correct me out so that's that's football right now it's also sunday a [TS]

00:21:42   day of winter there right now so so you know Jeff Bridges the dude he has [TS]

00:21:49   partnered with Squarespace to bring his project to life it is dreaming dreaming [TS]

00:21:54   with Jeff dot com that's dreaming with Jeff dot com this is an actual project [TS]

00:22:00   is not just like a PR stunt is an actual project created by Jeff Bridges with his [TS]

00:22:04   friends in various locations in LA he created an album of unique and relaxing [TS]

00:22:09   sounds guided meditations and stories designed to low you to sleep this [TS]

00:22:14   includes tracks such as a glass of water [TS]

00:22:17   IKEA and Home I don't get why I love you have to listen you can listen to the [TS]

00:22:25   tracks on the website go listen just yeah it's I've heard the click on any [TS]

00:22:29   way you can listen to it for free on the site dreaming with Jeff dot com if you [TS]

00:22:33   wanna down to have a pay what you like Jimmy system in place [TS]

00:22:36   this is all based on Squarespace you can do all this spare space the publishing [TS]

00:22:41   of the site to listening the buying this is all Squarespace you can bid on his [TS]

00:22:46   box sets like a limited edition box set to take it to pay what you want to [TS]

00:22:50   download thing he Jeff Bridges is the face of no Kid Hungry this is a charity [TS]

00:22:55   group that the main mission of it is that no child goes to bed hungry in [TS]

00:22:58   america all proceeds from this album will go to no Kid Hungry this wonderful [TS]

00:23:03   charity so really this is not a joke this is not a PR stunt this is really [TS]

00:23:07   Jeff Bridges work with Squarespace to make this happen [TS]

00:23:09   dreaming with Jeff dot com check it out and you can watch the Super Bowl on 21 I [TS]

00:23:16   assume it's the sunday I [TS]

00:23:19   have to tell anybody beside myself what they tell me I didn't know it sunday was [TS]

00:23:23   his anyway so they working Squarespace too I guess he's gonna be involved in [TS]

00:23:30   their Super Bowl commercial like they're doing this report commercial again this [TS]

00:23:33   year for the first time last year so Jeff Bridges gonna be in the Squarespace [TS]

00:23:38   Super Bowl commercial all worked in with this streaming with Jeff dot com project [TS]

00:23:42   so check it out [TS]

00:23:43   watch the Super Bowl you can add to tell people to see the full commercial space [TS]

00:23:51   with Jeff Bridges anyway check out Squarespace there it's the best way to [TS]

00:23:55   build a website at a much better so much in the past we'll talk about it more in [TS]

00:23:58   the future they have all these new features to Squarespace 7 this whole new [TS]

00:24:02   designed tons of great new features it is still as usual beautiful design [TS]

00:24:06   simple and powerful 24 7 support all this for 28 bucks a month and you to [TS]

00:24:11   freedom and if you buy a year up front and a free trial this is a real tree [TS]

00:24:16   trail with no credit card required start building your website today when you [TS]

00:24:20   decide to sign up for our space make sure to use the offer code ATP to get [TS]

00:24:23   10% off your first purchase and support for a show [TS]

00:24:26   thank you very much Squarespace start here go anywhere but you look at the [TS]

00:24:30   songs she know you should I looked at my phone on the mobile side a little tape [TS]

00:24:35   player thing and little music players embedded in and they are absolutely [TS]

00:24:38   crazy good crazy it reminded me of something that John Roderick would make [TS]

00:24:43   because you know they both have the same similar kind of boys to belittle beardy [TS]

00:24:46   and how does how does one sound basis up there there's a song called [TS]

00:24:54   just because he talks over though in this music I listen to them and tell me [TS]

00:24:59   if you don't picture anyway its opportunity you should go do it spends [TS]

00:25:04   the money well so we had another piece of feedback from Alberto and John would [TS]

00:25:12   you like to talk about this this is a question we get lots of questions in the [TS]

00:25:17   same vein most of the questions are like I'm just starting out in field acts and [TS]

00:25:22   you people have some experience GLX how do I get started so on and so forth this [TS]

00:25:26   is a little bit of indirectly related to some Albertos he says listen to episode [TS]

00:25:31   101 about how Marco just quote when 10 learned unquote a new computer language [TS]

00:25:37   and he was wondering how you go about learning something so complex so complex [TS]

00:25:41   by yourself in a short time to just sit there was a text book and start reading [TS]

00:25:44   the open up appalling try and see what's what he wants to expand his very simple [TS]

00:25:50   programming skills in any tips you will give will help this whole vein of [TS]

00:25:54   feedback where people want advice on how to get better at them something they [TS]

00:25:59   think we know how to do better than they currently know how is always very [TS]

00:26:03   difficult people always ask me recommendations of things to do our [TS]

00:26:07   books to read and I wish I had to go to answer them but I don't but for this [TS]

00:26:11   specific answer Marco answered I think there is an exploration of how marco was [TS]

00:26:16   able to pick up go in such a short period of time where can i interject [TS]

00:26:20   before that happens we get this notice I didn't wait for your answer we get to [TS]

00:26:24   his question constantly we get this question how what should I look I want [TS]

00:26:29   to learn to program where should I start or alternatively I'm about to start iOS [TS]

00:26:33   development should I learned swifter Objective C and we get this question so [TS]

00:26:38   darn often that I actually wrote a very short blog post about it and it's only a [TS]

00:26:42   couple paragraphs will put it in the show notes but suffice it to say I think [TS]

00:26:46   the key phrase that blog post which conveniently is in bold is find a [TS]

00:26:51   problem to solve and then solve it using the most appropriate tools and that's [TS]

00:26:56   really all comes down to as far as I'm concerned and I think the market is [TS]

00:26:59   about to tell you that that's kind of the path that he followed when learning [TS]

00:27:02   go [TS]

00:27:04   yeah that's that's pretty much it so I mean first of all if you only know one [TS]

00:27:09   language and if you're new to programming or if you don't know any [TS]

00:27:11   programming languages yet this sounds like a bigger deal than it really is [TS]

00:27:15   once you know a lot like when when you've been programming for long enough [TS]

00:27:19   you start realizing specially if you're exposed to other languages you start [TS]

00:27:22   realizing that there there are a lot more similar than you think there's a [TS]

00:27:25   lot of overlap usually that the differences are really relatively minor [TS]

00:27:30   and come down to like minor syntax details and then the available [TS]

00:27:34   libraries were built in the language of the devil for it so the names of things [TS]

00:27:38   you're calling might be different the symbols that you're using for certain [TS]

00:27:41   things might be different but you're kinda doing the same kinds of things are [TS]

00:27:44   at least a lot of overlap of the concepts carry-over and so learning a [TS]

00:27:48   new language really is it's it's it's nothing like winning a human language I [TS]

00:27:55   mean I know they have similar concepts to but there's a lot there's a much [TS]

00:27:58   higher learning curve for like human spoken languages there more keywords [TS]

00:28:02   yeah they're a lot more complex like going between programming languages is a [TS]

00:28:08   lot simpler than it sounds [TS]

00:28:10   if you if you're on a programmer or if you're new at it you know it sounds like [TS]

00:28:13   a lot but it's really not and then and yet the way I learned a ton of everyone [TS]

00:28:20   does this by the way I learned is basically I have a problem that they [TS]

00:28:24   need to solve in a language that then I that I that both the language as well [TS]

00:28:27   suited for and that I'm very motivated to do so you know when the App Store [TS]

00:28:32   came out just to see and I learned that the frameworks around cocoa and and you [TS]

00:28:36   like it because I really want to make the Instapaper iOS app and that's that [TS]

00:28:41   was going to do it so I did it and I guess about the room and what that looks [TS]

00:28:46   like something would go like I I figured out I had his problems and you mean [TS]

00:28:49   before I tried no I didn't know the exact same keep his place just a little [TS]

00:28:53   bit more new JavaScript somewhat but I had this problem that that my existing [TS]

00:28:59   tool kit was not very well suited to solve and I knew that many other [TS]

00:29:04   languages would've been WAY better at it as we discussed in the show I'd heard [TS]

00:29:07   good things about these why I picked them and I just started plowing through [TS]

00:29:12   so go go has a pretty good online tutorial bolanger org [TS]

00:29:17   a programming tutorial and actually the problem that I was solving of like [TS]

00:29:23   basically being being a feed crawler one of their examples on their site is a web [TS]

00:29:29   crawler that's so it acts and so my my designer that it is actually based on [TS]

00:29:35   its not very long it was pretty to base on but a lot of a lot of the concepts of [TS]

00:29:39   like how do I make it like you know print status every second to the log [TS]

00:29:43   file and stuff like that I know how do I track what it's doing it like imagine [TS]

00:29:48   the concurrency aspect and all that stuff that all came from that example [TS]

00:29:51   for you know I built on that I made up my own but honestly in general the way [TS]

00:29:58   to start a new language if we said before is really just have a project [TS]

00:30:01   that you're motivated to do it you know if you if you if you just say I want to [TS]

00:30:06   make an iPhone app just in general and you don't really know what you don't [TS]

00:30:08   have a specific in mind you wanna make it happen because you heard making it [TS]

00:30:12   makes money thing that's going to be hard to get into it it's much easier if [TS]

00:30:17   you have a specific idea of something that you really want to see something [TS]

00:30:20   that you really want to make that's way easier to start with that because then [TS]

00:30:24   you're motivated to basically just start just plow through it that relate and [TS]

00:30:29   Nash that's exactly how I do it I didn't read a book I just plant there now you [TS]

00:30:33   know when I used to a language I used to read books like when I was in high [TS]

00:30:36   school and college now there's so many great resources on the Internet [TS]

00:30:40   there's a there's tutorials online there's no there's there's places like [TS]

00:30:44   her second sponsor lynda.com which I'll get to in a sec it because there's also [TS]

00:30:50   some online documentation there's there's walkers and there's a so much [TS]

00:30:56   available online that stack overflow has been amazingly helpful in this regard [TS]

00:31:02   there's just so much about online now that you can just can't start just like [TS]

00:31:06   start plowing through early start with a tutorial and just start building it into [TS]

00:31:11   what you wanted to be and that's and you'll you'll pick up a lot along that [TS]

00:31:16   path like you learn as you go [TS]

00:31:18   you can do it or you can read a book I've never found it very helpful but a [TS]

00:31:22   lot of people do it just learned but in general the way to learn is to just [TS]

00:31:27   start plowing through the only a lad is that the specific question of how we go [TS]

00:31:33   about learning something so complex in short amount of time both of us have [TS]

00:31:37   been programming for a living for a long time now and that the way we do it in [TS]

00:31:42   such a short time is as Marco said we recognize the similarities between [TS]

00:31:46   programming languages and so we have a leg up on someone who's like programming [TS]

00:31:50   what's that you know we don't have to relearn the concepts of you know what's [TS]

00:31:56   a variable what the loop the conditional like stuff like that we don't have to [TS]

00:32:00   relearn anything about it functions or you know now that we all know something [TS]

00:32:06   like blocks or whatever the closures and we don't have to relearn those concepts [TS]

00:32:10   just how are those concepts implemented in this particular language if you're [TS]

00:32:13   starting from zero you will have to you will somehow have to learn these basic [TS]

00:32:18   concepts right but your second language will be able to learn quicker than your [TS]

00:32:22   first and third language we have ever learn even quicker so that's how they [TS]

00:32:26   not like a technique of how do we go about learning something complex it's [TS]

00:32:30   because we are no a bunch of similar things so it's very fast right to pick [TS]

00:32:34   up something but Casey will talk about it like alright well assume you could [TS]

00:32:38   pick up the language it's still not gonna stick on our brains of this we use [TS]

00:32:41   it to actually solve a problem because it'll just be like I mean I don't know [TS]

00:32:45   about you but I like I can read entire book on a language which I've done in [TS]

00:32:49   the past but if I don't use it to write a program of any significance that just [TS]

00:32:52   leaves my brain and it's like yeah I can recognize it when I see it and he remind [TS]

00:32:56   me I'll be like oh yeah but it doesn't stick unless you use it so you know [TS]

00:33:01   what's the trick the trick is to be a programmer for ten to twenty years first [TS]

00:33:05   thing you'll be able to pick up new languages fairly quickly unless it's [TS]

00:33:07   really weird language and you don't know the concepts like we tried to learn [TS]

00:33:10   something like I probably don't know a lot of the concepts that are involved in [TS]

00:33:13   Haskell so my first job there would be like I can't just pick up because I have [TS]

00:33:16   no analog scientific concepts that are not in a language that I know are in [TS]

00:33:21   Haskell early or something and then when they get a concept then becomes yet [TS]

00:33:27   entirely true and and kinda billion what you were saying oh reads say and as [TS]

00:33:31   hipster and as of late and as hipsters been entirely in swift and I've barely [TS]

00:33:37   written any swift in my life but I can still read it reasonably well because I [TS]

00:33:44   can pick out bits and pieces that remind me of other languages in kind of what [TS]

00:33:50   what this stuff is doing so I can look at it I can look at it and say oh that [TS]

00:33:53   looks like JavaScript that's probably what they're doing there are 0 that [TS]

00:33:57   looks a lot like C sharp I know exactly what's going on here in of course that [TS]

00:34:02   looks like Objective C [TS]

00:34:03   well I know what that means and so you can take this really nice and broad [TS]

00:34:11   foundation especially as you get more and more experienced and apply that to [TS]

00:34:15   all these other things and you can do it quicker and quicker with time what else [TS]

00:34:20   the school these days Marco they mention a minute to go if you're looking to [TS]

00:34:24   learn something new you should check out our 2nd sponsor lynda.com ly nba.com [TS]

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00:35:53   which is again right now over a hundred thousand of them this is great for [TS]

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00:36:01   sometimes that's like you know i i I will I i want like a surface level [TS]

00:36:05   understanding of a lot of different things and when the dot-com was there [TS]

00:36:09   was a big help when I was learning how to edit this podcast I learned a lot of [TS]

00:36:12   stuff about audio editing working with logic which is not an easy program to [TS]

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00:37:20   free trial with access to all courses thanks a lot to lynda.com sponsor show [TS]

00:37:25   once again so Apple made a little bit of money last quarter I i'm shocked I know [TS]

00:37:31   I thought they were on the ropes I thought that Apple was doomed but [TS]

00:37:36   seemingly not yes Apple made a metric ton of money is I believe the official [TS]

00:37:42   measurement that I have been quoted I I don't even know [TS]

00:37:46   what to say about this it's a tremendous amount of money and in Apple is doing [TS]

00:37:52   really really well and I don't know what to make of it its even as someone who is [TS]

00:37:58   very near to the Apple ecosystem as we talked about very recently in fact it's [TS]

00:38:04   odd for me to see Apple doing this well like what what's not going well [TS]

00:38:10   financially for them these days anything i mean even even a a tiny part of [TS]

00:38:18   Apple's business like the iPod business for instance even that is doing [TS]

00:38:22   amazingly relative to many other companies had heard the people mentioned [TS]

00:38:28   the amount of money they lost due to currency fluctuations this quarter was [TS]

00:38:34   like Google's and higher quarterly profit that like they just making any [TS]

00:38:41   money I mean honestly I don't think it's that interesting from the money [TS]

00:38:43   perspective I think what's what's more interesting and even even then only [TS]

00:38:47   mildly what's more interesting is looking at the trends of like how well [TS]

00:38:52   things like the iPhones and iPads are selling how do what what is the growth [TS]

00:38:56   curve look like you are they are accelerating and I think what we're [TS]

00:38:59   seeing right now we're seeing that the iPhone 66 + for just massive hits and I [TS]

00:39:07   think we all kind of knew that already but its to see it to see it like you [TS]

00:39:11   know officially recorded in you know in the totals here is really something to [TS]

00:39:16   see you like they have made and they have made very strong inroads into other [TS]

00:39:21   markets Asia and the NL to into the Android Market with the iPhone six and [TS]

00:39:27   six plus I think its financial stories are mostly interesting in the way they [TS]

00:39:35   sort of [TS]

00:39:37   highlight Apple's impotence not that that's the main story the main story we [TS]

00:39:43   hear the main stories like to make a lot of money than everyone you know chatter [TS]

00:39:47   and it makes a lot of the stock and all this thought they were going to sell [TS]

00:39:51   things that make me look at the trends our the max 2012 unlike I think I've [TS]

00:39:55   seen all those stories and there have been some good ones about that but when [TS]

00:40:00   I always think about when two things one company's unhappily any company has [TS]

00:40:05   these big earning one as the old cat mofo that success Heights problems and [TS]

00:40:11   so when you see massive success you think boy that much success can hide a [TS]

00:40:15   hell of a problem if you can have just dinosaur size problems eighteen billion [TS]

00:40:22   dollars like what kind of problem could eighteen billion dollars not high right [TS]

00:40:25   and so that's what I think about it the second thing is the frustration of it's [TS]

00:40:30   kind of like in the same city of those sort of like simulation games with an [TS]

00:40:35   economy where eventually you break the game and you essentially have unlimited [TS]

00:40:40   funds right and yet there are things even with unlimited funds there are [TS]

00:40:44   things you can't do because the analogy breaks down but I think with all this [TS]

00:40:50   money is all this money is not enough for them to buy their way to you know [TS]

00:40:59   whatever you want a pic to do network services as well as Google or Facebook [TS]

00:41:04   to be able to hire and retain the world's best talent bike there there are [TS]

00:41:10   some money problems that throwing money out of them just will not solve right [TS]

00:41:14   and that must be frustrating this is like how do you get how do you get these [TS]

00:41:20   things that we need to get what do we need the most companies like all the [TS]

00:41:23   only had more money but in a place like know we have all the money in the [TS]

00:41:26   freaking world why can we not turn this money into insert thing that Apple feels [TS]

00:41:30   that is lacking in from the outside but there are many things that we feel our [TS]

00:41:33   balls licking and [TS]

00:41:34   on the inside about the main thing I think they're lacking is how can we get [TS]

00:41:38   people get really good employees because we all know what it's like Apple and any [TS]

00:41:44   large organization everyone can be in charge at Apple [TS]

00:41:48   some people have more of a say what the company does another its hierarchy every [TS]

00:41:52   you know Corporation is a hierarchy and so how can you get all of the world's [TS]

00:41:57   best people you could only get all the world's best people who want to work for [TS]

00:42:00   a company and only a certain number of those can never rise to position apple [TS]

00:42:03   with a charger anything it really smart people want to be in charge of something [TS]

00:42:06   because they raised more people so that's what people come to Apple get [TS]

00:42:09   experience and start their own companies do their own thing that maybe they come [TS]

00:42:13   back like it's frustrating to to see Townley viewing go to other companies [TS]

00:42:19   are going to start that's kind of the nature of the business and so that's [TS]

00:42:22   what makes you think about all these giant mountain of money as if I was at a [TS]

00:42:26   place like how do we transform this money into improvements in our products [TS]

00:42:31   and services and we all we do in the show's talk about all the areas where [TS]

00:42:34   Apple's week and I think of every one of those areas and almost all those areas [TS]

00:42:38   money may may you know to be necessary but is clearly not sufficient because it [TS]

00:42:44   was money they would be great at everything because they have block [TS]

00:42:50   orders before they just a massive amount of money in the bank they have a massive [TS]

00:42:54   amount of money like they could you know it's like just pay all your employees [TS]

00:42:57   five million dollars a year [TS]

00:42:59   done and then all your place they retire on the five million dollars well we [TS]

00:43:05   destroy the company with money that was really bad guys actually becoming [TS]

00:43:10   Brewster's Millions a reference that neither one of you get because you [TS]

00:43:12   weren't born but the movie no means understand the problem that Apple has [TS]

00:43:20   yes Apple is Richard Pryor in this analogy [TS]

00:43:23   prior to see now I actually want to watch this guy I think you're a mean [TS]

00:43:27   there's there's just a lot of problems that money either can't solve or makes [TS]

00:43:34   worse or isn't sufficient enough to solve and and most I mean I would say [TS]

00:43:38   looking looking at what we identified apple's problems from the outside and [TS]

00:43:43   then assuming that there are at least partially true it seems like apples two [TS]

00:43:49   biggest problems are getting a retaining good talent number one and number two [TS]

00:43:54   just like organizational inertia of likes the way things are set up the way [TS]

00:43:59   like you know departments are structured the way the incentives are like I [TS]

00:44:03   honestly I think anyone interested in in the quality problems or perception of [TS]

00:44:11   them whether you think they're really not i mean you should listen to this [TS]

00:44:15   week's episode of debug which is needed and on my part 3 and they talk about [TS]

00:44:22   this I talked about like these accusations of quality issues and it was [TS]

00:44:28   interesting to hear i mean partially I I think they were actually especially need [TS]

00:44:34   not sure I think they were actually quite defensive but it's it was little I [TS]

00:44:40   had mixed emotions listening to it but it gives a lot of insight into the way [TS]

00:44:46   things are done at Apple and and they don't work there anymore but they were [TS]

00:44:52   there fairly recently and they were there for some fairly recent releases [TS]

00:44:55   and the way things are done it sounds a lot like all the high priority bugs tend [TS]

00:45:03   to get fixed but there's not a lot of time left for the less high-priority [TS]

00:45:07   bugs but every company works like I haven't listened yet it seemed like you [TS]

00:45:11   but like they probably defensive figures like what they're not saying whether [TS]

00:45:14   they realize it or not is you know it's like man to get anything done time to [TS]

00:45:19   companies do X Y and Z and when you're telling me that I should be doing this [TS]

00:45:22   is like well but you can't because like Apple the structure of Apple becomes the [TS]

00:45:26   sixth thing and it's like to get anything done within the structure you [TS]

00:45:30   have to do this maybe that means within a structure the only thing you can do is [TS]

00:45:33   get the high priority boxes because then you can get someone higher up to pay [TS]

00:45:36   attention to you and you can make a priority for Team you can get it done [TS]

00:45:39   you can't work within the system so really what they're angry about when [TS]

00:45:43   they're being defensive is they're angry the system into which their place and [TS]

00:45:47   then they're put into the system and told now get things done and they would [TS]

00:45:51   like to do what they think is the right thing but within the system you have to [TS]

00:45:55   work the system and who gets to change the system is to get back to you know [TS]

00:45:59   who is in charge are the people in charge the best people to be in charge [TS]

00:46:03   you can't have a company where people move up the ranks over many years and [TS]

00:46:06   then realize this bike has no idea what he's doing get him out of there bring [TS]

00:46:10   someone like people don't like it when you hire new people in above them they [TS]

00:46:13   don't like but they bring in new people that say all the current people there [TS]

00:46:15   don't know what they're doing [TS]

00:46:17   change like that takes time because egos get bruised and people have to be kicked [TS]

00:46:20   out of the company in like and if it's too much churn seems like a volatile [TS]

00:46:24   place and it's not like all the problems of any human doing anything in a group [TS]

00:46:28   are magnified in a corporate setting and that is the main sickness of all [TS]

00:46:32   corporations and I would say Apple has done better than any other company to [TS]

00:46:36   fight against the sort of corporate malaise to actually produce good [TS]

00:46:42   products and they were rewarded with the big buckets of money but even those [TS]

00:46:46   buckets of money can't cure all the sicknesses when the organization and no [TS]

00:46:50   amount of money can make it so that people who want to be chief sunday wanna [TS]

00:46:54   be your indians so you never gonna have all the best people they're always going [TS]

00:46:58   to leave and do their own thing there are always going to be wrestle to do [TS]

00:47:00   something else [TS]

00:47:01   you know I still say it like that the most practical thing that I would do [TS]

00:47:05   with the money is address its shortcomings that can that the money has [TS]

00:47:09   the most effect on for example prioritizing network services and [TS]

00:47:13   infrastructure you can throw money at that if if people learn that Apple is [TS]

00:47:18   going to spend three hundred billion dollars trying to catch up to 20 Google [TS]

00:47:22   and Amazon and Facebook and network infrastructure data center expertise [TS]

00:47:25   a lot of people who have network infrastructure data center expertise but [TS]

00:47:28   go work for Apple the right now those people don't want to travel because the [TS]

00:47:32   idea that Apple is a place where those things are not prioritizing all the [TS]

00:47:35   glory people are working on you like it or never and I mean that's like it seems [TS]

00:47:41   like they're the two biggest problems in that area like what frustrates people [TS]

00:47:45   who were there are the way the system is set up and the the the stress of working [TS]

00:47:53   within that and like the deadlines like what you have in mind working on what [TS]

00:47:56   you don't want to work on like from what I've heard from so many people in and [TS]

00:48:00   out of Apple that that those are the two biggest problems it's like you know you [TS]

00:48:04   might be like a lot of people they're very happy doing what they're doing but [TS]

00:48:08   there's a lot of people there who can't get the time or the staff to fix the [TS]

00:48:13   problem they want to fix and in a lot of people there who are you know fighting [TS]

00:48:18   the good fight and working on things that need to be worked on but they don't [TS]

00:48:21   get the support from above or the resources from above its kind of the [TS]

00:48:25   same problem like it is not a higher priority for the company or its kind of [TS]

00:48:29   stuck in this weird division somewhere maybe should be somewhere else or you [TS]

00:48:33   know there's some like some roadblock in the middle of the hierarchy and it's [TS]

00:48:36   making it hard for them or something like that there's there's an [TS]

00:48:40   organizational challenges in Europe every company is gonna have problems [TS]

00:48:43   like this that doesn't make them non problems and and really I mean like I i [TS]

00:48:48   think i listened to debug it is it is encapsulated so well and even like when [TS]

00:48:56   when roger was was attempting to argue against this point he was proving this [TS]

00:49:02   point unknowingly because he liked what he saw his point of view is that he [TS]

00:49:08   thinks this is like [TS]

00:49:10   it's like a formulaic 681 Piper high-priority the P 16 p1 bugs and then [TS]

00:49:18   we'll forget about this and then they proceeded to talk about how the p2 bugs [TS]

00:49:22   hardly ever had everybody wants to work on the p2 bugs for the hardly ever [TS]

00:49:27   allowed to because of the release cycle leading so little time and everything [TS]

00:49:30   just about like is a high priority high priority we can't afford to work on it [TS]

00:49:34   right now and so what are so I'm not feeling well when i send feeling a lack [TS]

00:49:40   of quality here I'm not feeling 61 bugs I'm feeling 6,000 p2 bugs have [TS]

00:49:45   accumulated over the last five years and are being dicks yeah I agree to say that [TS]

00:49:51   the like this has had problems things that the reason you can't get [TS]

00:49:55   prioritization Boston AP 20 whatever the reason you think like there you know [TS]

00:50:01   that's not a party is a party is because if you were to ever be able to make your [TS]

00:50:06   case you would say is we need to do this because of you that all the reasons they [TS]

00:50:14   would say well I don't think we do this because XYZ and you have this argument [TS]

00:50:18   it eventually would you come down to as you move your way up the ladder is like [TS]

00:50:21   well obviously my my priorities as the boss are the correct ones because look [TS]

00:50:27   as successful as Apple's been in the higher you go up in the company of the [TS]

00:50:30   more the person can say well I understand the people below me might [TS]

00:50:34   believe XYZ should be done but I believe it should be Q [TS]

00:50:38   history has shown that I've been pretty right because Apple's been doing pretty [TS]

00:50:41   well and like it's the sort of that's the ultimate success hides problem thing [TS]

00:50:45   is that when you get into an argument about what people should be doing that [TS]

00:50:47   you need more staff to test this and everybody can't be in charge again for [TS]

00:50:50   the millionth time that people who are in charge and the people who are in [TS]

00:50:53   charge [TS]

00:50:54   always have that they're back Apple's must accompany the world we make the [TS]

00:50:58   best products we have under percent customer center but he loves to make a [TS]

00:51:01   billion dollars everybody's buying iPhones like they always had it sitting [TS]

00:51:04   right behind them and so no matter what are you make based on a reason in the [TS]

00:51:08   end and Indian leaders may be the most successful company in the world do you [TS]

00:51:12   think the priorities I'm setting as as your boss or your boss's boss or your [TS]

00:51:16   bosses bosses boss arrest and cook those parties the wrong priorities in what way [TS]

00:51:20   are they wrong [TS]

00:51:21   look how successful we are what criteria should we be judging ourselves on picket [TS]

00:51:25   criteria pick a metric we are the best and you're saying oh that's not good [TS]

00:51:28   enough because you can get people to bugs right that's that's excited [TS]

00:51:33   problems that's what you run up against and if you're one of the lower down [TS]

00:51:36   people and you can't commit the uppers it's like you do you agree that they [TS]

00:51:39   kind of have a point and you become a company man who argue that doesn't have [TS]

00:51:42   reliability problems a podcast or you leave the company and say well these [TS]

00:51:47   people never gonna listen to me and whether they're right or not this is not [TS]

00:51:50   the environment I wanna be in you leave you know speaking of podcasts that we [TS]

00:51:55   haven't listened to yet at least I haven't friend of the show Ben Thompson [TS]

00:52:00   was on the talk show this week and one of the things that I noticed in the [TS]

00:52:04   notes was them talking about Apple employees have gone on sabbatical and [TS]

00:52:08   then come back and and I know that both you guys to mention that a minute ago [TS]

00:52:12   and then with regard to the PTU bugs marco was talking about I know I brought [TS]

00:52:17   this up a couple episodes ago but the end he meant to shock interview on [TS]

00:52:20   objective CIO he talks about that in indirectly but just talks about how the [TS]

00:52:25   incredible pace and the priority of just getting new hardware and other super [TS]

00:52:30   important things done [TS]

00:52:32   prevents prevents them from working on the not as showy issues or major changes [TS]

00:52:40   over time right right so both homework assignments if you're bored [TS]

00:52:45   anything else on earnings other than that I want the bank account numbers for [TS]

00:52:51   the hundred and seventy or whatever is billion dollars haven't heard the the [TS]

00:52:56   call yet but I read in many places that they give a breakdown of six vs six plus [TS]

00:53:03   but they merely just said the six sold their their sex plus you guys read that [TS]

00:53:07   as well yeah that's that's what they said that that the six was the top [TS]

00:53:10   seller in the line but they didn't say you know what the ratio was and they [TS]

00:53:15   don't usually bring on the racially so I don't think we ever get good info on [TS]

00:53:18   that I'm mostly interested in some of the don't say is that it's a pretty much [TS]

00:53:23   anywhere they do say what what value is there or what would motivate them to [TS]

00:53:28   tell us that the 60 more than the six bus right I don't know I mean it doesn't [TS]

00:53:34   I can't I can't even think of like a cynical like making out here [TS]

00:53:38   competitors like maybe they just don't know I don't understand why they would [TS]

00:53:43   say that I think about why did you tell me that like I assumed it I i assumed to [TS]

00:53:48   be for the phones were really sick result in this expose your not tell me [TS]

00:53:51   how much better so just give me any actual information oh then like six sold [TS]

00:53:55   more than six months but why you telling me this now it's funny I actually asked [TS]

00:54:00   on Twitter why wouldn't they say that because I I was having a a dunce moment [TS]

00:54:05   and it was like well why not you cares we're all friends right and immediately [TS]

00:54:12   I got a thousand replies very gently telling me I'm an idiot a lot of the [TS]

00:54:17   responses were well don't give your competitors anything in and that that [TS]

00:54:21   makes sense and and and there was one or two others that were really good but it [TS]

00:54:26   basically boils down to what you're saying John you know why why share that [TS]

00:54:30   information what good does Apple what what benefits as Apple gained from [TS]

00:54:34   sharing it [TS]

00:54:35   yeah I mean I guess I have a break then things that it doesn't have to all the [TS]

00:54:38   time but like product mix is one that Apple is almost never broken and I've [TS]

00:54:42   always assumed as lots of reasons like you said that I always assume the reason [TS]

00:54:46   they don't break it down is because [TS]

00:54:47   they don't want to tell their competitors sort of like this is this is [TS]

00:54:52   a mix of demand for these products so if you're going to make a line of phones [TS]

00:54:55   this is roughly how many big ones this size and how many small in size you want [TS]

00:54:58   to have right exactly like they just [TS]

00:55:01   that's that's not the reason that's a reason reason I was thinking they're [TS]

00:55:05   actually probably even better reasons why I mean some of their answer her [TS]

00:55:10   question you have to ask questions all the time says no we're not going to tell [TS]

00:55:15   you that is doing all the time why why decide to say that the six is not even [TS]

00:55:20   in their name bragging about its not like I think that you're bragging [TS]

00:55:24   they're not countering this story I don't think is their story out there [TS]

00:55:27   that I don't i cant i cant figure it out but you know maybe they just you know [TS]

00:55:33   they decided to throw the press a bone and tell them this begin with another [TS]

00:55:37   bullet point for story but I don't think it put that on a particularly good or [TS]

00:55:39   bad light anyway I have listened to the call yet to see what it was really like [TS]

00:55:43   alright so there's been a little bit of rumblings lately which I was not aware [TS]

00:55:51   of until somebody else pointed it out and in this case West start from [TS]

00:55:55   Australia he or she said it might be worth revisiting the new photo app for [TS]

00:56:02   Mac I remember you guys were pretty excited about it I have a daily Google [TS]

00:56:06   Alert for all news about it it seems Apple have been removing references to [TS]

00:56:10   it from their website that doesn't instill a lot of confidence [TS]

00:56:17   digested I mean that's probably not a good sign in it also was funny to me [TS]

00:56:21   semi related that somebody Press Tim Cook on whether or not on the earnings [TS]

00:56:26   call whether or not the Apple watches really going to be released early in [TS]

00:56:31   2015 because it's apparently coming out in April and him said from what I gather [TS]

00:56:38   well the way we think of it is the first third of the years early the middle [TS]

00:56:41   third is just the middle third and the last 30 days late and so sure why not [TS]

00:56:47   it's still early right we're all friends and I don't know just struck me as funny [TS]

00:56:51   so are you guys concerned about the fact that that photos apparently may not be [TS]

00:56:57   the photo app may not be a thing anymore [TS]

00:56:59   well it seems like you know reading the tea leaves here and here in a few [TS]

00:57:04   rumblings here in there I think the answer is not that the Photos app is [TS]

00:57:08   cancelled or just late you know it was I believe didn't they say about the [TS]

00:57:14   initial release date was like last fall but I think somebody else correct me [TS]

00:57:17   recently and said it was also really 2015 it was always next year or so I [TS]

00:57:22   think it was always to be 2015 sometime ok so you know if if that means by the [TS]

00:57:27   end of April 2015 and they're certainly removing all these references to it I [TS]

00:57:32   mean I it really does sound like based on you know a few things here and there [TS]

00:57:37   is it from what I can tell it's just too late it's not lead there it's not it's [TS]

00:57:41   not canceled and like i was wonder these stories of the sort of you know implied [TS]

00:57:47   like the net dot dot dot [TS]

00:57:51   those stories like will never say this means Apple is canceling it because the [TS]

00:57:55   quick like that's the implication but they'd only want to imply they don't [TS]

00:57:58   want to say it right and even speculate about it because my question would be [TS]

00:58:03   alright if you're saying this because you think the photos after the neck is [TS]

00:58:07   cancelled is it really a thing that you think would happen that Apple would [TS]

00:58:10   cancel both iPhoto and aperture and aperture and there was no photo [TS]

00:58:16   management I mean I suppose that could be a thing like by all means make that [TS]

00:58:20   argument tell me why Apple does not want to be in the business of making you know [TS]

00:58:24   first party photo management applications for your Mac anymore I [TS]

00:58:27   would love to hear that argument but they will never make that argument they [TS]

00:58:30   would just say that it's being pulled from the site and let you just worry [TS]

00:58:32   about something so in the absence of someone making a compelling argument [TS]

00:58:35   that Apple no longer wants to make photo apps which I bet you know if I had to [TS]

00:58:41   make that are in my way I would say history has shown over the past several [TS]

00:58:44   years Apple not great at making fun of management apps available didn't make [TS]

00:58:47   any given away for free that would open up the market to third parties [TS]

00:58:50   but then they'd start parties have to work with the authorities in the cloud [TS]

00:58:54   and about 11 EPF that bob loved anyway I'm not saying it's totally ridiculous [TS]

00:58:57   it could happen right I don't see anyone making that argument that is just like [TS]

00:59:01   what software is late right what else is new [TS]

00:59:06   me take care of that site just because it's kind of embarrassing to have it up [TS]

00:59:09   there for a long time and not have it available and maybe you know the website [TS]

00:59:14   too soon [TS]

00:59:15   your screenshots of something that doesn't exist [TS]

00:59:18   people can't get enticing them something like still selling a picture when it's [TS]

00:59:25   canceled but that's not a good movie there and so this just seems like a [TS]

00:59:28   correction if the stars that the next year I don't care just make it freakin [TS]

00:59:32   work that's the thing I mean it's [TS]

00:59:35   gets photos on your Mac that such an important thing like that's that's not [TS]

00:59:40   something you can like mess with like I wouldn't if if it was a beta I wouldn't [TS]

00:59:44   install it and even install the final version but seriously they just 22 the [TS]

00:59:53   truck like I barely trust I photo of my photos and like this new system whatever [TS]

00:59:58   it is I'm going to run in parallel with iPhoto for a long time before I trust ya [TS]

01:00:03   I mean like whether I use it immediately and whether I like can trust with [TS]

01:00:08   everything immediately will entirely depend on whether I can read its [TS]

01:00:12   directory structure if I can read it back out and I can back it up with Time [TS]

01:00:17   Machine LSW talked about months ago announced this I'll be comfortable using [TS]

01:00:21   it if it doesn't have all those things it's gonna be a tough sell [TS]

01:00:25   anyway we didn't actually get a bunch of this week so instead I decided to kind [TS]

01:00:30   of throw this one to two conferences that are run by our friends and our [TS]

01:00:33   really nice both happening in marks both happening hopefully I consulted CGP grey [TS]

01:00:39   video it is ireland you i think [TS]

01:00:45   the bottom half is anyway that's the bottom and video yeah me too [TS]

01:00:52   yes so anyway you're gonna get so much email to review the two largest islands [TS]

01:00:57   in the British Isles are Ireland and Great Britain Ireland has a two [TS]

01:01:00   countries the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland while Great Britain [TS]

01:01:03   mostly contains three England Scotland and Wales these last three when combined [TS]

01:01:06   with northern ireland form the United Kingdom anyway [TS]

01:01:09   Ennis Conference NFC conference dot com is an awesome conference that is in [TS]

01:01:14   light Chester I think it's Leister [TS]

01:01:18   like the boss and I'll you just kind of in the middle of get some help from the [TS]

01:01:23   other was a good video of Americans pronouncing bridge place names should [TS]

01:01:28   find its place esther lester like a creepy dude lester yes my bed here lies [TS]

01:01:35   I was so smug I thought I really nailed it but I was anywhere is that march 16th [TS]

01:01:40   18th and as conference dot com in Leicester UK speakers include some of my [TS]

01:01:47   friends I just launched our dinner jacket pocket fosler sabino Jamie [TS]

01:01:51   Newberry and a bunch more people who are not quite as well but it's a very very [TS]

01:01:53   good list and I'll be speaking there as well I tend to speak at about one [TS]

01:01:58   conference per year and wanted this one for a while and the schedule you've [TS]

01:02:03   never worked out until this year and I'm very happy to finally work this out so [TS]

01:02:06   check out as conference dot com also I apologize to casey Cumz he wants to go [TS]

01:02:12   and probably won't go because baby stuff is hard and so so anyway it's you lol . [TS]

01:02:20   I E [TS]

01:02:20   this is March 30th and 31st in Killarney Ireland speakers include lots of people [TS]

01:02:26   we know Jesus no guy English Dalrymple Georgia whiskas Trinity rene some guy [TS]

01:02:33   named John or Jonathan Gruber think he's an economist and more [TS]

01:02:36   go to you lol . I E that's pretty cool anyway so any conference and shout out [TS]

01:02:44   of this week anyway what else so we're gonna get so much email and I'm not [TS]

01:02:50   looking forward to it anyway I wanted to quickly talk about a tweet that I had [TS]

01:02:56   seen retweeted by my friend Andre arco this week is by Gary Bernhardt the [TS]

01:03:03   history of programming is much more about programmers unacknowledged [TS]

01:03:05   emotional attachment to the miliary than it is about invention and the first [TS]

01:03:11   thing I thought of when I read this tweet was Marcos insistence on sticking [TS]

01:03:15   with PHP forever [TS]

01:03:17   up until the difference though and Marcos defenses that you acknowledge [TS]

01:03:22   your ridiculous insistence on this ridiculous language and rather than just [TS]

01:03:28   stick your head in the sand although I guess maybe I should have thought of [TS]

01:03:31   John first but since I don't feel like there's any so why do you think of me [TS]

01:03:35   first [TS]

01:03:35   pearl is fine you know why do you know anyone with his parole is the best [TS]

01:03:39   language and a whole bunch of languages when go and art comes out when go comes [TS]

01:03:45   out and all these new language come out I read all the documentation for the [TS]

01:03:48   languages [TS]

01:03:49   yes but the only one you really need like Marco said is pearl just dollar [TS]

01:03:54   signs for everyone [TS]

01:03:55   JavaScript where you work you'll find yourself writing jobs could have escaped [TS]

01:04:03   the worst language everywhere looking rather I don't really have much to say [TS]

01:04:10   other than I thought the to use cool it reminded me of you guys yeah that's [TS]

01:04:13   that's true not just a programming language those shoe of anything I go [TS]

01:04:17   again with any sort of group organization with a hierarchy where [TS]

01:04:24   people are in charge there's going to be an attachment to the people in charge to [TS]

01:04:28   the things that they are familiar with insist they're in charge they get to [TS]

01:04:31   impose that everybody else [TS]

01:04:32   and any attempt to change is met with resistance from the people who are [TS]

01:04:38   attached to the things they're familiar with their specific instances and [TS]

01:04:43   programming it whether it's specific language or technology or particular [TS]

01:04:47   code base that people get attachments with in many cases specifically with TAC [TS]

01:04:53   what's required is somebody who's not tech person to make a decision and [TS]

01:05:01   posted on the tech people that's how you get situation that's how you get [TS]

01:05:05   essentially Mac OS 10 right because Apple had also its next-generation [TS]

01:05:11   operating system [TS]

01:05:12   initiatives within its walls and there was none of them are focused enough and [TS]

01:05:19   they were put under very difficult constraints they just couldn't get the [TS]

01:05:21   job done he only way they could break out of that with they had to someone who [TS]

01:05:26   is not a programmer who has no attachment to the Mac tool box or do [TS]

01:05:31   anything involving classic Mac OS two come in and say we're doing something [TS]

01:05:36   different because none of the people who were there in the trenches were going to [TS]

01:05:43   do that because all those people who are experts in the current Mac operating [TS]

01:05:46   system and they may have had a mission is to make a new operating system but [TS]

01:05:49   they certainly had an attachment to the current one who takes care of an [TS]

01:05:51   outsider and usually an outsider is not a tech person in this case the outsider [TS]

01:05:56   was the CEO of the company who decided to purchase another company that came up [TS]

01:06:00   with Steve Jobs and he did little inside-out takeover type thing those are [TS]

01:06:04   the people who decided that there is an operating system with built in next that [TS]

01:06:07   nobody you know inside the company working on a new kernel or whatever [TS]

01:06:12   decided that next to be like there's a way out of this to you [TS]

01:06:19   deal with an emotional attachment you have a duty to get a decision made by [TS]

01:06:23   somebody has no emotional attachment of those things and you know who I didn't [TS]

01:06:29   know it was going really old and has a CEO can you remember the CEO progression [TS]

01:06:33   and Apple did not have an emotional attachment to classic Mac OS so the idea [TS]

01:06:37   of you know using the Windows anti-crime are buying next are buying be ready [TS]

01:06:42   those things he's not burdened by any emotional attachment to technologies are [TS]

01:06:46   language is there anything having to do with the current technology stack that [TS]

01:06:52   was kind of a crisis tunity though because it comes to going down the tubes [TS]

01:06:55   the person can the person in charge is empowered to do that and again the [TS]

01:07:00   success has problems who and Apple is empowered to make them change their [TS]

01:07:04   priorities for network services anyone who has that sort of ability like [TS]

01:07:11   there's no crisis causing it to happen at this point because for all the noise [TS]

01:07:15   we make talking about app on their problems like then they turn these [TS]

01:07:18   financial numbers and it's like tell me again why I have to totally change the [TS]

01:07:21   way we do things are otherwise otherwise what happens if we don't we have another [TS]

01:07:24   record quarter [TS]

01:07:25   well you know blackberry was doing great in 2006 I know it's hard problems right [TS]

01:07:30   to the point that it doesn't write and Apple especially because if Apple missus [TS]

01:07:34   this fantastical earnings by just a little bit like oh god Apple's doom the [TS]

01:07:38   only made sixteen billion and and last year they paid eighteen if they make [TS]

01:07:41   sixteen billion this you know the same quarter next year they do know they made [TS]

01:07:45   sixteen billion dollars in the quarter they're fine right so it's but people [TS]

01:07:48   still go crazy over it so I guess that's kind of the upside I don't really talk [TS]

01:07:52   about this but the upside of the crazy Apple blogosphere and the pundits who [TS]

01:07:57   are like Apple is doomed to my what Apple does they they're about to be [TS]

01:08:01   destroyed by whatever their competitor is that has actually manufactured crisis [TS]

01:08:07   unity [TS]

01:08:08   it's not real phantom I don't want to say it got a real problem but the [TS]

01:08:16   perception that there is a problem is the only thing they ever give anybody [TS]

01:08:20   inside Apple any sort of clout to make a you know to have a crisis that leads to [TS]

01:08:25   an opportunity right otherwise if there were any other company would be like [TS]

01:08:29   nothing ever changes ever doing great I don't understand why I would ever listen [TS]

01:08:35   to you everything is fine and you know and just to put a little bit a nuanced [TS]

01:08:41   on this like when I when I complain about Apple's quality problems or what I [TS]

01:08:45   perceive as quality problems I'm not saying apples do they're not apples [TS]

01:08:50   gonna be fine for a long time you know Apple's gonna be even if they have a bad [TS]

01:08:55   patch it's gonna be a little bit like Microsoft is today which is like [TS]

01:08:59   Microsoft is you know most of our estimations in this is there going [TS]

01:09:05   through at their worst period ever right now they're still making tons of money [TS]

01:09:09   on their still fine and there aren't making as much money necessarily as they [TS]

01:09:13   could be or maybe as they were in the past I don't know about that but you [TS]

01:09:17   know they're still even in this state of them producing things that don't do well [TS]

01:09:22   in the market and things that tend to suck a lot or fail least they're still [TS]

01:09:27   as a company and financially everything so fine it's not even funny and so you [TS]

01:09:33   know Apple even if they had a colossal series of terrible moves and terrible [TS]

01:09:38   products of flops in the marketplace which doesn't look gonna happen time [TS]

01:09:41   soon even if that happened they have so much money coming in there are still so [TS]

01:09:48   many people they're still gonna have such such great success [TS]

01:09:52   relative to the market as a whole relative to other companies relative 20 [TS]

01:09:56   that they're gonna be fine so I'm not saying they're doomed I'm not even [TS]

01:10:02   saying that they're gonna start making less money I don't know that you know [TS]

01:10:06   who knows I do think though that as you know following the theme of success hide [TS]

01:10:11   problems [TS]

01:10:13   you can be selling tons and and and doing very well in profit in market [TS]

01:10:19   share any kind of like you know money metric you want you want to measure and [TS]

01:10:23   still not be making stuff that's good enough that is a different metric and [TS]

01:10:29   and you can you can you know similar to how I said look you can lose the [TS]

01:10:33   function on high ground without losing it to somebody else that you can just [TS]

01:10:36   lose it yourself you can still be doing very very well you can still be making [TS]

01:10:41   tons of money you can still be the market leader in whatever metric you [TS]

01:10:45   choose to be despite that your stuff might not be as good as it could be or [TS]

01:10:51   should be that is totally separate measure that often does not correlate to [TS]

01:10:55   your market success I wasn't talking about you I was talking mostly about [TS]

01:10:59   like like that there's bad assumptions arkla Ben Thompson who may or may not be [TS]

01:11:03   in our chat room by gets the analysts who are like Apple has to come out with [TS]

01:11:07   the network you know or other competitors in aggression they needed a [TS]

01:11:11   lower price bones are going to destroy them in China like all these people who [TS]

01:11:14   just don't understand out below their business and they're the people are [TS]

01:11:18   manufacturing like the drama on the stock market with their price like that [TS]

01:11:23   why Apple's PE ratio is not what it should be [TS]

01:11:26   according to almost any rational thought it was like you know is this big article [TS]

01:11:31   says open the shows like Apple is eternally I think I'm gonna said similar [TS]

01:11:36   things really like on the edge of doom like I said like they're currently [TS]

01:11:46   currently falling to earth they just keep missing it's a basic there in orbit [TS]

01:11:50   right and it's not and this is from the people who matter like I'm in the [TS]

01:11:57   financial markets like that and and everybody hates that you have a whole [TS]

01:12:01   websites dedicated to just like him in the MacLab all he does is just here she [TS]

01:12:06   has his just take down the these people who just have no idea what they're [TS]

01:12:10   talking about a consular talk about Apple and seemingly having people listen [TS]

01:12:14   to them but there is a benefit and the benefit is if that chatter gets loud [TS]

01:12:20   enough it can be fuel for things to happen inside the company that otherwise [TS]

01:12:24   wouldn't have been the only other fields are marked talked about that any good [TS]

01:12:26   company and especially Apple knows don't let yourself be blackberry right don't [TS]

01:12:30   make yourself don't miss the mobile revolution don't decide that a hardware [TS]

01:12:35   keyboard is the way forward dammit like you can always get blindsided and had an [TS]

01:12:41   apple to its credit and perhaps better than anyone else has been really good [TS]

01:12:45   over the past decade or so about trying not to let that happen because I'm not [TS]

01:12:50   resting at like that that's what the watch is all about is the watch the [TS]

01:12:52   right thing Apple TV the right thing like these are things that Apple is [TS]

01:12:56   trying they don't try a million things but they know we're going to you know i [TS]

01:13:00   phone company forever that is not a viable strategy you end up as a [TS]

01:13:03   blackberry eventually number I don't you know it may take a while but eventually [TS]

01:13:06   happen if I had to pick out something that is dangerous to Apple right now I [TS]

01:13:10   would pick out like we are something maybe there'll be a fluke and it's not a [TS]

01:13:14   big deal but Apple should be worried about it should have contingency plans [TS]

01:13:18   should be working in like maybe it's not a big deal maybe they are comes and goes [TS]

01:13:23   and it's like you know we didn't need to be worried about it but doesn't they are [TS]

01:13:26   coming to every seven or eight years I know you don't know but you never know [TS]

01:13:31   what's gonna take maybe won't take now if you'd said like tablet computers he [TS]

01:13:35   better be worried about that Apple when like 10 for Windows came out like that [TS]

01:13:39   that the grid pad or whatever we gotta be very worried about this if you like [TS]

01:13:43   what were they said no we don't need to worry that stupid and then it went away [TS]

01:13:47   and you like see we were told to rate the whole thing with like tablets that's [TS]

01:13:51   pointless no one's gonna be that's not the same appalling was at all you bet [TS]

01:13:54   against PDA space [TS]

01:13:56   we tried the new Numis crabby nobody wants to have like a smart device for [TS]

01:13:59   the touch her yet stupid if Apple Cup having that attitude they would have [TS]

01:14:03   never made that the iPhone right just bien todavia comes and goes like you [TS]

01:14:07   said we were right now you have to you absolutely have to explore every avenue [TS]

01:14:12   maybe nothing comes to but you have to be on the lookout for I think Apple has [TS]

01:14:15   that going for it that it's always going to be on the lookout for what the next [TS]

01:14:20   thing is gonna blind-sided trying to stay ahead of it but the more difficult [TS]

01:14:23   thing is when you don't have anybody who is competing with you in terms of [TS]

01:14:27   product quality profits customer set anything like that what do you have to [TS]

01:14:32   motivate you to be better or to change the way you do business because any [TS]

01:14:38   argument you make about change then we do this is Ken eventually ending what [TS]

01:14:43   does it do you think how can we do better in some way which metric that we [TS]

01:14:47   can measure would we do better and we make more money we have higher customer [TS]

01:14:50   satisfaction I guess maybe you could say we have more market share but then they [TS]

01:14:54   have encountered at like if you lower if you saw the lower price phone you would [TS]

01:14:58   increase your market share in that Apple said yes but we don't care about market [TS]

01:15:01   share care of making us products and making a lot of money possibly in that [TS]

01:15:04   order [TS]

01:15:06   alright still waiting for that Sega V our heads ok let me know how that works [TS]

01:15:13   out for you [TS]

01:15:13   that Sony's making on the accuracy of people to get to be our headsets on that [TS]

01:15:17   thanks to our sponsors this week [TS]

01:15:20   Squarespace and lynda.com and I guess Jeff Bridges and we will see you next [TS]

01:15:25   week [TS]

01:15:28   now the show they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

01:15:37   accidental [TS]

01:15:41   Casey [TS]

01:15:45   and you can show the day to be done and Marco [TS]

01:16:28   what's going on at this point and we're never gonna watch the Microsoft thing [TS]

01:16:33   right we all forgot to do it for two weeks in a row right ovary supposed to [TS]

01:16:37   probably watch a little bit I read articles with highlights and I know more [TS]

01:16:42   or less what was announced i just want to see it i guess i mean sometimes when [TS]

01:16:47   I watch those things to do very quickly becomes not about what's been announced [TS]

01:16:51   but about how it's being announced yeah and sometimes I could be good at [TS]

01:16:55   something that can be bad if it's really long and boring and bad but I will [TS]

01:17:00   remember that one of the best things I watched a long time was that when [TS]

01:17:05   Windows 8 Metro was like announced it was like that but you got you I got [TS]

01:17:09   explain the UI philosophy behind the Metro interface that was really good I [TS]

01:17:15   think I mean I've heard so many people talking about this might be something in [TS]

01:17:20   various things about it I think the biggest red flag for me is that all the [TS]

01:17:27   these features are designed for a leg it sounded like they have basically 11 [TS]

01:17:32   continuous you I between phones tablets and PCs and you know convertible laptops [TS]

01:17:39   and everything you know everything like rather than the windows 8 environment of [TS]

01:17:43   ladies two separate environments and Windows RT which no one really mentioned [TS]

01:17:48   recently with the stuff I think I can take and that they think so but i dont [TS]

01:17:53   have not been confirmed that he has been employed but all that stuff [TS]

01:17:57   the problem is that whole system of own it'll be wonderful you can have these [TS]

01:18:03   absurd on the same platforms you can have things being handed off in all its [TS]

01:18:07   you have to not consider what happens if you have all the Microsoft devices [TS]

01:18:13   because that's not gonna happen like that's unrealistic that so you have to [TS]

01:18:18   instead can see if you said be like ours so what happens if I only have one or [TS]

01:18:24   two of these what maybe I only have the laptop and the Xbox or media just like [TS]

01:18:29   the tablet and a laptop or something like that like knowing about the Windows [TS]

01:18:34   Phone anytime soon so I can know what happens then in like a mixed environment [TS]

01:18:37   where this year I don't have are not totally bought it [TS]

01:18:40   is the stuff still compelling if it works at all you know is is that i think [TS]

01:18:46   is is why I hope Microsoft is is smart and practical and humble enough to [TS]

01:18:53   recognize the need to be worried about that and they need to make sure that [TS]

01:18:57   works well I don't know yet if they are you know we in general the new Microsoft [TS]

01:19:03   is moving in that direction of being more pragmatic and honest about their [TS]

01:19:07   position in mobile but we'll see in a hollow lens I mean how and from what [TS]

01:19:13   everyone says is a really awesome tech demo that everyone hopes will come out [TS]

01:19:19   sometime soon with some kind of reasonable hardware that perform [TS]

01:19:23   something well and worked with some kind of mystery software but that's that's a [TS]

01:19:27   whole lot of ifs [TS]

01:19:28   you know that that's a big line of like of pretty big problems to solve before [TS]

01:19:33   this thing is truly compelling and so I hope it succeed I think it'd be cool but [TS]

01:19:39   I think it would be cool to kinda like shake things up in the industry and and [TS]

01:19:43   to have Microsoft be the fuhrman again it's kind of exciting because they [TS]

01:19:46   haven't been for a while so I think that would be interesting I think it'd be [TS]

01:19:50   cool I hope it works but I [TS]

01:19:53   there there's so many IFS like you know and people are comparing it to light the [TS]

01:19:58   demos of Kinect [TS]

01:20:00   called president all I think that sounds familiar yes people are saying like you [TS]

01:20:06   know the original demos of that we're like insanely awesome ridiculous stuff [TS]

01:20:11   and in the real thing him and it wasn't nearly that good in reality and so that [TS]

01:20:14   could happen here but you know from what everyone has said who has tried the [TS]

01:20:18   Holland at the press event everyone said like it was really good it like it was [TS]

01:20:22   actually really good but of course it was all prototype hardware prototype [TS]

01:20:24   software pretty far from reality pretty far from Aliso like I saw some people [TS]

01:20:30   who are normally skeptical saying was really good too but it's like really [TS]

01:20:34   good like a fun amusement ride but what problem is a solving for me in gaming [TS]

01:20:40   it's easier because like gaming is amusing right that's the problem solving [TS]

01:20:43   for entertainment right right for something that's not a gaming system the [TS]

01:20:47   democrat be amazing because you didn't know the things you're experiencing [TS]

01:20:50   possible and it was a super rock-solid station of these ideas but then it's [TS]

01:20:54   like if you gave us to me and put it in my house what would I use it [TS]

01:20:58   games are easy I would use it to have fun ride if it doesn't make me sick and [TS]

01:21:02   it's fun and interesting and it makes new gameplay think it's just fun sites [TS]

01:21:07   all you need that but for people like 3d modeling and stuff are you kidding me [TS]

01:21:11   take someone who uses mild and tell them you gonna do everything will hold it [TS]

01:21:15   could get there eventually maybe you have to do but like those applications [TS]

01:21:20   are fiendishly complex they just like the UI looks like the dashboard of a 747 [TS]

01:21:26   gonna try to do that by waving your hands around in space [TS]

01:21:30   what is it making easier like what is it making possible easier for people in [TS]

01:21:36   those companies that are you like maybe I don't know but like its up to [TS]

01:21:41   Microsoft to figure that out and putting a bunch of people in his little things [TS]

01:21:46   and having them be wowed by by technology is it's a start I guess but [TS]

01:21:51   you know the Apple thing is you have to come up with at least one thing that you [TS]

01:21:55   think this thing can do better than something else and you have to be right [TS]

01:21:58   about it [TS]

01:21:58   and I don't know that there is a good discussion about this on on rocket our [TS]

01:22:03   friends that she was talking about 3 like she does 3d work all day and she [TS]

01:22:08   knows and other people who do it she knows like that's not really how people [TS]

01:22:12   do three he and I think to you know we've seen as tablets have gotten big [TS]

01:22:21   and phones and everything and we've seen in all these all these like weird [TS]

01:22:26   peripherals it to people that they have tried over time I think we've we've [TS]

01:22:32   mostly figured out the things that work really well for most tasks and I'm not [TS]

01:22:38   saying that we can never do anything different than we can ever find better [TS]

01:22:42   ways but a lot has been tried and a lot has failed and I think it's when when [TS]

01:22:48   you look at liked to get a lot of work done a lot of precise complicated work [TS]

01:22:53   done a keyboard and a pointing device and the screen is really really [TS]

01:22:59   effective and again that might not be the most ideal solution but we have a [TS]

01:23:03   lot of inertia behind that solution with you just gotta wait until it becomes the [TS]

01:23:09   it becomes the best way to do it like touch screens but it remains forever [TS]

01:23:12   people hated them people just hated touch me how long will it take turns my [TS]

01:23:15   whole practice my whole life and universally reviled right and that means [TS]

01:23:21   touchscreens are bad ideas like know someone eventually has to do them right [TS]

01:23:24   enough that you go oh yeah touchscreens Apple happened to be the one that got [TS]

01:23:29   their right and so is the same way we've had we are forever every time we see in [TS]

01:23:33   its like an amusement things you put on in the nineties in a video arcade it [TS]

01:23:40   wasn't even fun right [TS]

01:23:41   were probably the point now where you can make fun games with it if they can [TS]

01:23:45   work out the problems but you know will know it when someone finally cross that [TS]

01:23:49   threshold and it's like it's not like we are as a bad idea the reason to believe [TS]

01:23:53   trying it's because it's an amazing I did you just got to be the first one to [TS]

01:23:57   do it right and go oh yes every other and people will say every other previous [TS]

01:24:02   effort of Berar sucked and this is the one that's good and you don't even have [TS]

01:24:06   to convince people because no need to be convinced now that a good thing that [TS]

01:24:10   people born and you know so the outpost smartphone era will never believe you me [TS]

01:24:15   said before all my life touched me terrible and everybody hated them what [TS]

01:24:19   was different about them they were slightly less responsive I gets it [TS]

01:24:21   pretty much it someone had to press really hard some of them are a little [TS]

01:24:26   less responsive like doesn't take much you know so that's why people are [TS]

01:24:29   excited oculus because it seems like I'm gonna try to myself it seems like they [TS]

01:24:34   cross the threshold into no longer sucking four games and I've tried an [TS]

01:24:39   oculus rift which one I have no idea as soon as I tweeted about it but I tried [TS]

01:24:47   one I i genuinely don't know which 1 I'm not trying to be funny I tried it for [TS]

01:24:52   two minutes and it was cool as hell and I i was playing like one game where I [TS]

01:24:58   was flying around in like shooting it something or other [TS]

01:25:02   and I played another game or basically I was just planning now for the game to be [TS]

01:25:05   honest I was walking around like a balcony on the edge of a cliff and its [TS]

01:25:10   freakin trippy mane it is weird I'm not typically prone to motion sickness I [TS]

01:25:16   didn't get any and I was only the headset on for a couple of minutes but I [TS]

01:25:20   would assume since there is even the slightest bit of potentially see between [TS]

01:25:26   real world and it that John you would vomit profusely but I mean I thought it [TS]

01:25:32   was spot-on I thought is really cool I think that the challenges of taking one [TS]

01:25:36   of them is the motion sickness can you make this so that a reasonable [TS]

01:25:40   percentage of the population does not get motion sick and you just have to [TS]

01:25:43   keep trying to make it you know [TS]

01:25:44   reduce the leg and you know [TS]

01:25:46   make it the most people don't get motion sickness walk around all day in a 3d [TS]

01:25:50   world once you put your head any disagreement between what your inner ear [TS]

01:25:56   is telling you about your eyes are seeing is going to be interpreted by [TS]

01:25:59   people who are prone to motion sickness as you know maybe you've eaten up now so [TS]

01:26:06   that's the problem they're working on essentially you know what they're saying [TS]

01:26:09   is over the latency displays and reduced tearing and reduce latency that all that [TS]

01:26:13   buildup to is this something that large enough person the population can use and [TS]

01:26:18   will find fun because you want people to buy it and it seems like they're getting [TS]

01:26:23   closer to that threshold right now just four games Microsoft nothing so far that [TS]

01:26:29   i've read or seen I read a lot but not seen much has convinced me that they [TS]

01:26:33   have reached Indy the IRS moment the iPhone moment like that they have you [TS]

01:26:41   know this is a thing that ever money use its not just an entertainment is [TS]

01:26:45   actually a better way for you to interact with software because the [TS]

01:26:49   recent XYZ and I haven't seen that yet it seems like a very good technical [TS]

01:26:55   achievement in the labs so far that might make for a very good product but [TS]

01:27:02   that no one has quite figured out like what's the killer app like what what is [TS]

01:27:08   what will make it worth spending $500,000 in one of these things and and [TS]

01:27:14   and possibly changing the entire way you work physically or your desktop or [TS]

01:27:18   whatever what will make it worth all that costs and change that's so much [TS]

01:27:24   better on this thing then you have no such a killer app that's what people [TS]

01:27:29   used to say it like well it's great nobody the killer app for your pipeline [TS]

01:27:32   but like the touch screen did not have a killer app in the sense of like you know [TS]

01:27:36   an application made touches like the whole the whole thing the whole [TS]

01:27:40   experience of a handle things mostly screen [TS]

01:27:43   that was essentially the killer app but that that that phrase is back from the [TS]

01:27:48   days when it was literally a single application I call you need a Mac [TS]

01:27:51   because it has PageMaker get Photoshop already that was a killer Apted [TS]

01:27:56   attractive for your platform the killer outfit touchscreens both countries are [TS]

01:27:59   better for everything on a phone practically ninety be borderline [TS]

01:28:04   keyboard but there's so much better [TS]

01:28:05   everything else that the tradeoff is worth i think i mean one of the biggest [TS]

01:28:10   challenges they might have with this and I know this sounds very superficial but [TS]

01:28:13   trust me it will matter is portability you know the reality is I think most [TS]

01:28:19   people today do their work on laptops desktops are really dying breed and [TS]

01:28:24   never going to be dead but they're certainly laptops are the default [TS]

01:28:30   computer for most people and mobility matters for a lot of those people not [TS]

01:28:35   all that interested me but for a lot of them it matters and if this thing least [TS]

01:28:39   something like those on your head and has these screens or whatever like it [TS]

01:28:42   now actually might not fold niacin flattened skinny in light into a back [TS]

01:28:47   hoe lens is actually better than i could assume this is like giant ski goggles [TS]

01:28:52   right and so you know they seemed actually be there and you can see [TS]

01:28:56   through the lenses are you wearing glasses that you can see the real world [TS]

01:28:59   in ages overlay images onto it [TS]

01:29:02   Yaris like you know completely covered you can't see anything outside which is [TS]

01:29:06   why it's mostly better for entertainment for you don't need to see the outside [TS]

01:29:09   world but not so good for an office setting where you have a blindfolded [TS]

01:29:15   will also I I would expect have not known about this admittedly I would [TS]

01:29:19   expect that ar is probably a lot easier to work out the motion sickness problems [TS]

01:29:23   for ya probably because you do have the visual cues everything else but then [TS]

01:29:28   that what that does is it reveals all of you that's what people are saying about [TS]

01:29:31   the tech demo like it reveals any latency or miss calibration you have is [TS]

01:29:35   real because the real world is perfectly steady in that they would say like I [TS]

01:29:40   looked at the coffee table and there was a Minecraft structure on it and it [TS]

01:29:43   pretty much say in the somali stuck to the table I couldn't when I wake up my [TS]

01:29:47   head the microstructure didn't like well I moved you know moving side-to-side for [TS]

01:29:51   jiggle like her looks like there was a whole new coffee table and there was [TS]

01:29:54   like a thing down in like an hour look at that hopes to look like a hole and [TS]

01:29:58   never sort of lost track of where the coffee table was actually drew at an [TS]

01:30:01   elevated to left and to the right because that takes you out of the [TS]

01:30:04   illusion that they had special ok well coffee tables real but the little castle [TS]

01:30:09   on top of it is ignoring lighting just [TS]

01:30:13   to have a connect to the world that's that's one of the big problems in a hour [TS]

01:30:16   and it seems like Microsoft to solve that ok now what do you do with that [TS]

01:30:21   besides minecraft castle tables why would have run to put it in the after [TS]

01:30:28   show have said TV news before we go I know what happened said said said said [TS]

01:30:36   on multiple levels so I got my fancy TV that like Panasonic Plasma TV I know all [TS]

01:30:43   that plasma TVs no limitations take very good care of my television or so I [TS]

01:30:49   thought you called the kids not to leave television shows paused making my [TS]

01:30:55   children watch for by three live-action television shows stretched out and to [TS]

01:30:59   sixteen by nine just but recently I've got Playstation 4 and have been playing [TS]

01:31:05   a lot of destiny on it and that turned out to be a mistake got about eighty 80 [TS]

01:31:11   hours into destin a split between me and my son and we both really like the game [TS]

01:31:15   despite its flaws or perhaps because of its laws I'm not sure anymore but [TS]

01:31:20   destiny has one feature that I should have paid more attention to in didn't [TS]

01:31:23   and in the lower left corner of the screen while you're playing destiny is a [TS]

01:31:28   heads up display that shows a 100% yellow line and 100% white silhouettes [TS]

01:31:34   of guns and when I was looking in puts the other day I noticed that I could [TS]

01:31:38   still see the yellow line and little silhouettes @ the guns in the car on my [TS]

01:31:42   screen and I said [TS]

01:31:45   so this is sad for all the worries no one quick googling led to a jackpot of [TS]

01:31:57   people begging bungee to make the HUD transparent or to make it optional this [TS]

01:32:02   is something that most games are good about giving you a way to make a little [TS]

01:32:08   bit transparent because the background is constantly changing promise when you [TS]

01:32:12   make something opaque then it never changes I was just there for just an [TS]

01:32:15   hour after hour this terrible budget hasn't done that yet I saw one [TS]

01:32:19   acknowledgement that they acknowledge they've heard this complaint before and [TS]

01:32:22   they can't give any timelines and blah blah blah battled back in November so [TS]

01:32:25   there hasn't been a patch kit to fix this and the second thing is regarding [TS]

01:32:29   plasma TVs there is image retention and burning the only difference as far as I [TS]

01:32:34   can tell that burning is considered permanent injury is what I have [TS]

01:32:39   permanent or not many stories from people who played last game past games [TS]

01:32:42   on their plasma TVs other games I stopped playing the game and it took [TS]

01:32:47   months for it to go away but eventually did other people say it never went away [TS]

01:32:50   and so like the people that never won any they had burning people that image [TS]

01:32:54   retention and those different debate so there if your Plasma TV supports 3d it's [TS]

01:32:59   more susceptible to either attention to burn in or whatever anyway my tv screen [TS]

01:33:03   might feature that puts white across the bar ice cream that's supposed to help [TS]

01:33:07   but the bottom line is from what I've read the best cure is that you simply [TS]

01:33:12   continue to use your TV as normal don't play the game anymore [TS]

01:33:15   wait several months to a year and maybe you'll go [TS]

01:33:18   I think it has faded already but the worst part of this is now destinies [TS]

01:33:23   banned from my television until they [TS]

01:33:25   means that I can't play destiny which also means my son can play destiny and [TS]

01:33:31   that is the worst part of this community super pissed no one else at this point I [TS]

01:33:36   think no one else would even notice it pointed it out but you know me so right [TS]

01:33:41   my solution to this is buying a gaming monitor 1080p game under gonna move the [TS]

01:33:47   PlayStation 4 into the computer room air instead of on the television because we [TS]

01:33:52   gotta play destiny [TS]

01:33:53   you know he's done his guns are gonna level themselves so let me ask you a [TS]

01:33:59   serious question I I'm not trying to troll you you bought this TV this was a [TS]

01:34:07   plasma TV if I understand things correctly because the blacks are better [TS]

01:34:13   but otherwise it's mostly the same as any other TV is that now pretty much [TS]

01:34:19   everything about its better as bet it panel's notion better the color accuracy [TS]

01:34:22   is better than blacks are better it is better than any television you could buy [TS]

01:34:27   except for with the possibility of overheads by the way also have burning [TS]

01:34:31   problems anyway the one of driving at is you bought this TV for a difference that [TS]

01:34:39   probably only year robot eyes can see how anybody could see it [TS]

01:34:44   anybody could see him next to each other in a showroom pick my TV is about early [TS]

01:34:47   yet you can't use the TV to do the one thing you want to do with it which is [TS]

01:34:51   played destiny know because the Destiny like video games all the games fall [TS]

01:34:56   right into motion the motion is an important thing in gaming right but the [TS]

01:35:01   thing I really want good picture for us for television and movies like a live [TS]

01:35:04   action because games like are you know they're limited by the graphics that are [TS]

01:35:08   in the games they're not photo realistic and you know I want to watch my favorite [TS]

01:35:13   movies and television shows and all that stuff on my nice fancy screen [TS]

01:35:17   I'm perfectly happy to move my gaming to a little 23 inch monitor the computer [TS]

01:35:22   right but I am NOT happy I wouldn't be happy to watch like my new gimli blu-ray [TS]

01:35:29   on a little tiny computer screen Godfather movies analyst at a computer [TS]

01:35:33   screen to watch the next season of Game of Thrones computer screen so I'm still [TS]

01:35:38   what I'm trying to do is preserve my my TV for its intended purpose or just [TS]

01:35:43   watching television and movies is intended purposes not gaming and in fact [TS]

01:35:47   the monitor will probably have much lower input lag and lower latency than [TS]

01:35:51   by television does not try to get a TV that has a low input legs possible to [TS]

01:35:54   make it acceptable for gaming but probably much better on this monitor [TS]

01:35:58   right well said here that yeah and I i worried about it for other games too [TS]

01:36:03   like Zelda games have had some stuff to do a little bit of transparency and you [TS]

01:36:07   know it has not been a problem with any games a lot of that hundreds and [TS]

01:36:11   hundreds of hours of game done this TV and maybe some of the jurors complaining [TS]

01:36:17   stretching for way through the crime i watch that i say i make my kids wash out [TS]

01:36:22   there watching full house standard death and they can stretch it a watch full [TS]

01:36:27   house reruns or that the show looks awful in any in any aspect ratio it out [TS]

01:36:34   now [TS]