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The Accidental Tech Podcast

12: Accidental Server Hardware

 

00:00:00   do you have opinions on kidman's as by chance after your last show where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/0">TS</a>]

00:00:05   three of us were talking about apples tick tock strategy with iOS somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5">TS</a>]

00:00:11   tweeted out US publisher bandurski which are probably pronounced wrong I'm Sorry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/11">TS</a>]

00:00:15   Sorry public and he wrote a blog post that was actually fairly short so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/15">TS</a>]

00:00:19   hopefully we'll remember to put this in the show notes and you can take a look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/19">TS</a>]

00:00:22   but he made an interesting point the premise of it was you know what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/22">TS</a>]

00:00:26   interesting is that the economic actually read this year the tick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/26">TS</a>]

00:00:30   versions of iOS came with the US versions of the devices iOS three with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/30">TS</a>]

00:00:34   iPhone gt3 GIS analyst 5 with the iPhone for us on the other hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/34">TS</a>]

00:00:38   hardware releases such as such as the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5 launched alongside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/38">TS</a>]

00:00:43   talk releases of iOS iPhone 4 with iOS 4 and iPhone 5 with I was six so now not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/43">TS</a>]

00:00:51   reading anymore the general premise he drives a tease hey even though even if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/51">TS</a>]

00:00:56   you consider the software on a tick tock and if you consider the hardware in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/56">TS</a>]

00:01:01   tick tock what's interesting is there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/61">TS</a>]

00:01:03   offset its like a hundred eighty-degree offset sine wave so there there's always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/63">TS</a>]

00:01:08   going to be taking always going to be a top and that's kind of an interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/68">TS</a>]

00:01:11   place to be and I thought that was an interesting point so I wanted to point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/71">TS</a>]

00:01:15   that out what we having trouble a show thinking about which iOS release was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/75">TS</a>]

00:01:20   like big or small electronic list off the major features like I don't know if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/80">TS</a>]

00:01:24   I buy that theory because it just doesn't seem to me that there has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/84">TS</a>]

00:01:30   that kind of kid stylist but it could be that I'm just not paying enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/90">TS</a>]

00:01:34   attention but like the fact that we were trying to think about was that a big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/94">TS</a>]

00:01:37   release what was in that one either we just told him that bad memories remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/97">TS</a>]

00:01:41   was in them but they have all seem pretty even to me at this place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/101">TS</a>]

00:01:44   certainly none of them we're we're like a snow leopard to know you know that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/104">TS</a>]

00:01:48   kind of feel like I i think im going on I can't really point to any I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/108">TS</a>]

00:01:51   released and say oh that one was the 16 most of the problems and added a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/111">TS</a>]

00:01:55   API's but didn't change much the user may be six but I wouldn't say it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/115">TS</a>]

00:02:00   enough to really establish a pattern I mean at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/120">TS</a>]

00:02:03   stan has had now to takes into talks at the white leopard Snow Leopard why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/123">TS</a>]

00:02:08   mountain lion and that that those four releases I think a very clearly followed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/128">TS</a>]

00:02:12   that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/132">TS</a>]

00:02:12   but even before that they didn't really good expert today that's why I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/132">TS</a>]

00:02:18   we're still in that early period of Iowa swear it's like really simple not all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/138">TS</a>]

00:02:25   the features a bunch of stuff doesn't work and then the ones that you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/145">TS</a>]

00:02:28   get out to sort of shore up the API for public use and then some major features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/148">TS</a>]

00:02:33   like a pretty much follows closely along with you know the temple now 10.1 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/153">TS</a>]

00:02:40   like you know it was STK was just he was to point out yeah yeah and you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/160">TS</a>]

00:02:45   then three four and five roughly matching with you know Panther tiger and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/165">TS</a>]

00:02:50   leopard and six should have been at Snow Leopard but it wasn't because six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/170">TS</a>]

00:02:56   brought you know even more features and more new stuff it was definitely not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/176">TS</a>]

00:02:59   snow leopard cub release so I still think we're in the early part of Iowa's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/179">TS</a>]

00:03:06   release like maybe this maybe seven will be the first like maybe something will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/186">TS</a>]

00:03:11   be the right after seven maybe eight will be something that's more tame or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/191">TS</a>]

00:03:16   whatever but it seems like all the rumors of seven that it's not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/196">TS</a>]

00:03:19   be a team release even if it's just visual stuff in the global stand out in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/199">TS</a>]

00:03:23   our mind as a lot when they rejected you I rearrange the absence and presence but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/203">TS</a>]

00:03:30   we'll see but I would still say there's definitely no no snow leopard Snow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/210">TS</a>]

00:03:34   Leopard and I was yet know the other interesting thing that somebody on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/214">TS</a>]

00:03:38   Twitter pointed out I don't have this at reply handy so I apologize to whoever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/218">TS</a>]

00:03:42   you are but they pointed out that none of us thought about searing when we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/222">TS</a>]

00:03:45   trying to think of a kind of marquee features I'm different iOS versions in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/225">TS</a>]

00:03:49   in the three of us don't even think about Syria and I don't know what that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/229">TS</a>]

00:03:52   says but it's an interesting observation that obviously didn't cross my mind when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/232">TS</a>]

00:03:57   we were talking about serious because it was tied to the 40 S as a device mostly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/237">TS</a>]

00:04:07   for marketing type reasons you know because it was tied this device and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/247">TS</a>]

00:04:11   was the release like it was more like a feature of that phone and all devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/251">TS</a>]

00:04:16   from that point forward it was less of like a ok starting with iOS 5 everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/256">TS</a>]

00:04:20   gets this school thing that's something we haven't done in the max not like it a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/260">TS</a>]

00:04:24   lot time machine and say and if you want to use Time Machine you got a Mac the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/264">TS</a>]

00:04:27   about this year and would not fly as much and they they pulled it off with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/267">TS</a>]

00:04:31   the forests as a differentiator but it's it's why we don't associated with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/271">TS</a>]

00:04:37   was the OS that seriously that was the phone that Siri [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/277">TS</a>]

00:04:41   anything else on a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/281">TS</a>]

00:04:44   whatever you think so right so one of the things I want to talk about today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/284">TS</a>]

00:04:51   was Marco you finished Reviver well maybe not finished but at least got to a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/291">TS</a>]

00:04:56   stopping point for now on your PHP framework and I didn't know if you had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/296">TS</a>]

00:04:59   anything to share about that and if not I'm asking other probing question but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/299">TS</a>]

00:05:04   how did that go I can't wait for the probing but title now we have we have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/304">TS</a>]

00:05:11   kind of a kind of real show but in the chat now so if the peacekeeping so I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/311">TS</a>]

00:05:17   had this PHP framework that I've built let me know long time ago we built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/317">TS</a>]

00:05:23   tumbler with it and before time there we built David night David Carpenter I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/323">TS</a>]

00:05:27   built some client applications back near consultants before David decided to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/327">TS</a>]

00:05:32   start tumblr so we had this PHP free markets it's a basic MVC framework and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/332">TS</a>]

00:05:39   the reasons we rode our own back then were that we had tried rails and we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/339">TS</a>]

00:05:43   tried cake for PHP and back then this isn't like 2006 we didn't I didn't and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/343">TS</a>]

00:05:52   convince David I didn't like all the behind the scenes magic that frameworks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/352">TS</a>]

00:05:57   did unexpectedly like some magic is good and some magic is helpful I got like my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/357">TS</a>]

00:06:04   my fear was more than I wanted the framework to be more like libraries and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/364">TS</a>]

00:06:09   less like at the time what was trendy for quote frameworks which is they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/369">TS</a>]

00:06:14   do so much for you and you end so it was it was hard to tell like if you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/374">TS</a>]

00:06:19   seeing like a certain header being said are certain behavior certain filtering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/379">TS</a>]

00:06:23   or certain bugs it was hard to find where the heck that was coming from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/383">TS</a>]

00:06:27   code and this is especially problem in Rails because of Ibiza mix ins and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/387">TS</a>]

00:06:33   that becoming especially trendy in 2006 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/393">TS</a>]

00:06:36   so everyone was kind of overusing them and so was very very much like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/396">TS</a>]

00:06:40   categories and cocoa it was very very hard to find the code you were looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/400">TS</a>]

00:06:47   for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/407">TS</a>]

00:06:47   to manage like what was going on because everything was there was so much magic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/407">TS</a>]

00:06:50   happening all the time with everything so my theory was I wanted something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/410">TS</a>]

00:06:56   could provide helpful features like a library but where I knew everything that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/416">TS</a>]

00:07:01   was going to happen and what was not going to happen so it was very clear to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/421">TS</a>]

00:07:05   me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/425">TS</a>]

00:07:06   ok me as the as the person writing this action of this model what is my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/426">TS</a>]

00:07:10   responsibility what will happen and what won't and so we're on our own very basic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/430">TS</a>]

00:07:15   framework with some lessons from rails some lessons from ourselves some lessons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/435">TS</a>]

00:07:20   from cake and and we basically mature that into tumblr as time went on and on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/440">TS</a>]

00:07:27   and it is BSD licensed but it's not just about anywhere so our clients from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/447">TS</a>]

00:07:33   before tumblr they all have a copy a few programs here and there have a copy I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/453">TS</a>]

00:07:38   have a copy in stripper who is running on a copy and magazines gonna cut it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/458">TS</a>]

00:07:42   does not really open source framework but it would be open source if it ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/462">TS</a>]

00:07:46   actually got out no legally so what I did when I left tumblr I forked it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/466">TS</a>]

00:07:53   so tumblr continue doing their own thing with it and Tumblr did tons of changes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/473">TS</a>]

00:07:58   to it because they had to cuz they grew like crazy and they had a bill in like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/478">TS</a>]

00:08:03   automatic starting support stuff like that all sort stuff I've never seen and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/483">TS</a>]

00:08:07   Instapaper I don't have to do anything to it so mostly just SAT there and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/487">TS</a>]

00:08:13   exchanged a few things here and there but I didn't really pointing out so it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/493">TS</a>]

00:08:17   still had a whole bunch of stuff from like halfway through tumblr scaling that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/497">TS</a>]

00:08:20   I had put in there and it was also based on PHP 5.1 and 5.2 even the most in 5.3 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/500">TS</a>]

00:08:28   the late static binding support in 5.3 that was added which makes data classes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/508">TS</a>]

00:08:34   work and useful way for the first time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/514">TS</a>]

00:08:36   yeah like I don't know why didn't have that in the beginning anyway that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/516">TS</a>]

00:08:40   that's a little too specialized for the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/520">TS</a>]

00:08:43   I was able to modernize the framework if I wanted to but in strippers code base [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/523">TS</a>]

00:08:49   that point was big enough that it was kind of unwieldy to do that and it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/529">TS</a>]

00:08:53   really ever worth my time to do that having just the paper though I am honest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/533">TS</a>]

00:08:58   I wanted to start being more web stuff in the future and I wanted to have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/538">TS</a>]

00:09:04   really solid foundation for doing that and I thought about using other language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/544">TS</a>]

00:09:08   but as we've discussed in the show before much too many people's irritation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/548">TS</a>]

00:09:12   I don't think Ruby or Python really provide enough of the benefit of a PHP [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/552">TS</a>]

00:09:20   if you add that if you're already an expert in PHP that you really need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/560">TS</a>]

00:09:22   become an expert on one of those I think you can pick any of any of those three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/562">TS</a>]

00:09:25   become an expert in one of them and you're pretty well said you don't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/565">TS</a>]

00:09:29   need the other ones that you know if you really want to learn a lot more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/569">TS</a>]

00:09:32   languages for other reasons like personal development or market value [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/572">TS</a>]

00:09:36   whatever else but if you're if you're short on time and if you don't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/576">TS</a>]

00:09:39   wanna be learning tons languages and he would rather take one master that one I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/579">TS</a>]

00:09:43   don't think you to master more than one of those three and I think the at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/583">TS</a>]

00:09:47   alternatives things like node I would be looking at those in probably the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/587">TS</a>]

00:09:52   but I think they're a little bit early right now so I'd rather not go that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/592">TS</a>]

00:09:55   right now so I figure you know what PHP is great for me I know a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/595">TS</a>]

00:09:59   hate it but PHP is very good for me I know it extremely well and I know how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/599">TS</a>]

00:10:05   scale it I know how to run it very cheaply in very easily with very little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/605">TS</a>]

00:10:09   effort and very few 3 a.m. wake ups for the census for the system in which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/609">TS</a>]

00:10:13   usually me and and so I decided you know there's nothing really inherently wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/613">TS</a>]

00:10:19   with PHP that overcomes the barrier for me to to master something else to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/619">TS</a>]

00:10:25   degree when I don't really want to be riding big web services as the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/625">TS</a>]

00:10:31   thing I do you know if that was the only thing I was going to do that would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/631">TS</a>]

00:10:35   fine I would be very very happy with it but I would learn lots of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/635">TS</a>]

00:10:39   languages and pick the best one and really dive deeply into that one but for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/639">TS</a>]

00:10:44   me the web service and action is a great blog post by Brent Simmons that while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/644">TS</a>]

00:10:48   I'm rambling on you guys should read this and I'll talk about it a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/648">TS</a>]

00:10:55   for me making web services is really a supporting role to what I really want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/655">TS</a>]

00:10:59   do which is kinda making whole products they're mostly acts like Instapaper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/659">TS</a>]

00:11:06   pretty much was that the newspaper web service was was very low needs and I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/666">TS</a>]

00:11:11   devoted very little to it for good and bad because I really want to do is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/671">TS</a>]

00:11:16   working on the app and the Apple is that like the premier experience well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/676">TS</a>]

00:11:20   whatever else I do in the future is probably gonna be that same way you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/680">TS</a>]

00:11:23   I have mentioned in the past few prototypes of things that I'm trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/683">TS</a>]

00:11:27   figure out what I wanna do next with and they all have web components and but all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/687">TS</a>]

00:11:32   the components are are relatively unimportant compared to the at and so i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/692">TS</a>]

00:11:38   dont for me it's not worth like learning entire new Web languages and mastering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/698">TS</a>]

00:11:42   those platforms and and learning the hard way how to scale the mall and spend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/702">TS</a>]

00:11:47   all that time and stress on that when I'd rather be putting effort into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/707">TS</a>]

00:11:51   apps and just the website you know I don't need the website to be to be my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/711">TS</a>]

00:11:56   experimental playground so so I decided this was a great time to modernize my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/716">TS</a>]

00:12:06   frameworks like I had only the magazine using it and nags and code base is very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/726">TS</a>]

00:12:10   very small so I thought this is a great time to modernize it when I really need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/730">TS</a>]

00:12:15   those a test and that way I can kind of read the test app as I modernize it so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/735">TS</a>]

00:12:19   know what I'm breaking I know how I'm breaking it and what it needs to be and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/739">TS</a>]

00:12:23   I can kind of play with the API's as I'm making them and as I'm changing them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/743">TS</a>]

00:12:28   stealing ok what works what doesn't what ends up being more or less elegant than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/748">TS</a>]

00:12:32   I expected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/752">TS</a>]

00:12:33   etcetera so my goal here is also open source framework now it's to finally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/753">TS</a>]

00:12:40   make it so incredibly different from what tumblr is running that I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/760">TS</a>]

00:12:46   legally I could have done it already but like you know I was always a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/766">TS</a>]

00:12:51   afraid to release the framer that runs tumblr what if somebody find some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/771">TS</a>]

00:12:55   security problem and exploited against tumblr I would really not feel good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/775">TS</a>]

00:12:59   about that I was always very afraid about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/779">TS</a>]

00:13:02   that I'm less afraid but it's my own thing i atleast know that ok I'm willing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/782">TS</a>]

00:13:08   to do that to myself I'm not unless less happy by doing that to somebody else mrs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/788">TS</a>]

00:13:12   somebody's biggest tumblr so I thought I would love to open source this and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/792">TS</a>]

00:13:19   would love to modernize it and I would love to also write the sponsor tracking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/799">TS</a>]

00:13:23   system that I've been means do for market or four months as the way as I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/803">TS</a>]

00:13:28   track my sponsors from archive.org is this giant spreadsheet that sucks and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/808">TS</a>]

00:13:33   it's so it's so human based and error-prone and it's always it always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/813">TS</a>]

00:13:39   freaks me out what if I booked the wrong spot you know what I publish something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/819">TS</a>]

00:13:42   from the wrong day long week what if I i think is sponsored hasn't paid but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/822">TS</a>]

00:13:47   have or vice versa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/827">TS</a>]

00:13:49   like you know what if I type and number wrong if I instant typo and something is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/829">TS</a>]

00:13:53   really messed up so that I needed something better than a spreadsheet to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/833">TS</a>]

00:13:58   manage that I also want to start addition to having sponsorships for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/838">TS</a>]

00:14:04   show that had to manage ok we have we sell sponsorships for this at another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/844">TS</a>]

00:14:08   property suspension for so initially started out in the table in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/848">TS</a>]

00:14:12   spreadsheet that was very similar to the first table but then it to build on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/852">TS</a>]

00:14:16   things like you know we all we all split the money that comes in so I had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/856">TS</a>]

00:14:21   build in how to pick how do you know I take the money and I have to pay you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/861">TS</a>]

00:14:24   guys out your inner portions of it so I have to you know that that's another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/864">TS</a>]

00:14:28   layer on top of this that is error-prone and could be messed up and starts really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/868">TS</a>]

00:14:34   pushing the boundaries of what spreadsheets can do gracefully i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/874">TS</a>]

00:14:37   they can do it in many non graceful ways but what they can do gracefully his you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/877">TS</a>]

00:14:42   know this is kind of a bad thing for them and then what really killed it is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/882">TS</a>]

00:14:48   wanted all three of us to be able to log in and look at sponsors and sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/888">TS</a>]

00:14:54   sponsorships and so we needed multi-user access you can go Google Docs but then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/894">TS</a>]

00:14:59   it's just there's the more layers you add to the spreadsheet that the crappier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/899">TS</a>]

00:15:03   that solution becomes and the more likely it is like exponentially more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/903">TS</a>]

00:15:06   likely it is that something will go wrong at some point and that's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/906">TS</a>]

00:15:10   bad so I decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/910">TS</a>]

00:15:14   let's build this let's build a system and that's a perfect test case app for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/914">TS</a>]

00:15:20   my new framework of a new version of this framework which is almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/920">TS</a>]

00:15:25   completely rewritten turns out and its way smaller framework and my goal is to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/925">TS</a>]

00:15:31   open source both the framework and this example project of my invoicing system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/931">TS</a>]

00:15:36   fairly soon so you guys have anything to say after that massive delay 23 minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/936">TS</a>]

00:15:45   in the idea but I'll give John a chance because I have a comparatively much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/945">TS</a>]

00:15:50   shorter monologue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/950">TS</a>]

00:15:52   I'm looking at your notes I know what you're gonna ask him and it's exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/952">TS</a>]

00:15:55   the same thing that i'm gonna go ahead and go for you the notes that apparently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/955">TS</a>]

00:16:01   Casey and I use but Marco shot I got it was it was a micro get oh yeah that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/961">TS</a>]

00:16:07   where mine is so since I'm talking I will go ahead and ask by telling a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/967">TS</a>]

00:16:11   brief story so few days back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/971">TS</a>]

00:16:12   Marco sends John an email saying hey this is up here's where you can go and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/972">TS</a>]

00:16:19   load the URL and all I see is a text form and a button and the tax form says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/979">TS</a>]

00:16:25   give me your email address and then login and I think to myself this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/985">TS</a>]

00:16:31   weird I haven't created a user account or knowingly anyway I haven't given him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/991">TS</a>]

00:16:37   a password of any sort of what's going on so I enter my email address I hit the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/997">TS</a>]

00:16:42   button and next thing I know his fancy Marquez fancy sponsorship checker says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1002">TS</a>]

00:16:47   okay look at your email you'll get a login URL there in so sure enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1007">TS</a>]

00:16:51   instantly I look at my email and there's a email from Marcos fancy app thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1011">TS</a>]

00:16:58   it says here click this link and you can get logged in and that's exactly what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1018">TS</a>]

00:17:01   happened and so it was a very different and interesting way to handle user [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1021">TS</a>]

00:17:07   authentication and authorization always get the A's wrong but handle locking in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1027">TS</a>]

00:17:12   without me ever giving him a password so in summary my question to you Marco and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1032">TS</a>]

00:17:17   John feel free to jump in and why do you keep passwords so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1037">TS</a>]

00:17:20   does the same thing on the magazine site which I'm assuming you did this i I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1040">TS</a>]

00:17:27   the you know when I saw it I immediately knew the years of the same time as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1047">TS</a>]

00:17:30   magazine insiders seem like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1050">TS</a>]

00:17:32   most insanely good to ya and I don't like either I complained to my wife that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1052">TS</a>]

00:17:37   he still in this thing without password again another one of my first the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1057">TS</a>]

00:17:42   things first interaction I had with you and your products online was when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1062">TS</a>]

00:17:45   first signed up for Instapaper and back then you didn't need a password for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1065">TS</a>]

00:17:48   Instapaper which was awesome and I love it not like not like this you just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1068">TS</a>]

00:17:52   literally didn't need a password so for the first whatever was year or two years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1072">TS</a>]

00:17:55   or however long you let us not have passwords anybody could have seen my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1075">TS</a>]

00:17:59   Instapaper leagues I don't care wasn't anything secret there I just love not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1079">TS</a>]

00:18:03   having the password remember I just had to remember my username and there was no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:07   answer I didn't care that was totally insecure fine go ahead I guess I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1087">TS</a>]

00:18:12   have used that to start adding stuff to make the paper and then you have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1092">TS</a>]

00:18:15   option to edit passwords of someone found it started using it and erased all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1095">TS</a>]

00:18:18   my side like art final a passport so I'm all thumbs up for not having a pass Berg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1098">TS</a>]

00:18:24   but thumbs down for every time I log in sending me an email with the link is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1104">TS</a>]

00:18:29   first of all I can you first of the magazine there was like male backlog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1109">TS</a>]

00:18:33   nothing is more frustrating that wanting to get into something and not being able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1113">TS</a>]

00:18:36   to because your mail hasn't arrived yet it was a long time since this is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1116">TS</a>]

00:18:41   your fault it's not on the receiving end you know it's email store-and-forward [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1121">TS</a>]

00:18:45   like it could be not in your control that I'm sitting there could be great I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1125">TS</a>]

00:18:49   refresh button trying to rate from I think the camp and the second thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1129">TS</a>]

00:18:52   this is really mostly I was his fault of the city the environment you're in I use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1132">TS</a>]

00:18:56   the Gmail app on iOS and when the email comes to delink on it I can't tap that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1136">TS</a>]

00:19:02   link because then that will open in the Gmail outs built-in browser and I'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1142">TS</a>]

00:19:06   logged in there in some sort of you know right hand side navigation pane to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1146">TS</a>]

00:19:10   Gmail app but I'm not logged in Mobile Safari and that link is now dead because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:14   I think you kill them off after they could use our pass right and so now I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:19   have to go back to the site [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1159">TS</a>]

00:19:20   make an email me another link remembered whole tap and hold on let me copy copy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1160">TS</a>]

00:19:24   the URL they gonna Mobile Safari then paste under thing and then use it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1164">TS</a>]

00:19:28   over there so I'm I do not find the user experience of this password list thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1168">TS</a>]

00:19:35   agreeable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1175">TS</a>]

00:19:37   it's funny because I don't have any problem with the password lists idea in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1177">TS</a>]

00:19:44   principle but I T was likely to have to wait for darn email to come in and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1184">TS</a>]

00:19:49   retrospect thinking about it more actually think by and large this isn't a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:52   bad set up and it strikes me as a and I'm not a security minded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1192">TS</a>]

00:19:57   oil bearing nut job but it strikes me as though it's a pretty good setup the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1197">TS</a>]

00:20:02   is it the same as using a password because if you have access to my email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1202">TS</a>]

00:20:05   account passwords don't matter and if you have access to my email to counter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1205">TS</a>]

00:20:08   this thing customers don't matter is that a security thing with any lesser [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1208">TS</a>]

00:20:11   more secure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1211">TS</a>]

00:20:12   well it isn't one way and that is that you can't get somebody's password cuz [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1212">TS</a>]

00:20:17   they don't have one the only way to login is by having access to their email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1217">TS</a>]

00:20:21   you the password for their email address and he was moving you know moving to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1221">TS</a>]

00:20:27   know from your site to their you know that's a little bit better this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1227">TS</a>]

00:20:31   especially so many emails have to factor now exactly took the words right out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1231">TS</a>]

00:20:34   my mouth should have superior support Google login and I can use my existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1234">TS</a>]

00:20:40   to factor to get into your site [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1240">TS</a>]

00:20:43   yea well obviously you're probably thinking about it like this everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1243">TS</a>]

00:20:51   always wants to solve the problem of identity on the web because it's such a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1251">TS</a>]

00:20:55   pain in the butt no matter what you do and there's just no good solution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1255">TS</a>]

00:20:59   everything has tradeoffs in detroit also this one or just a different set of her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1259">TS</a>]

00:21:02   office and it but I find it particularly special for the magazine like I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1262">TS</a>]

00:21:07   subscribe to the magazine I get in the iOS App occasionally run over wanna read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1267">TS</a>]

00:21:11   it on the web thing and inevitably I somehow find that I'm using a browser on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1271">TS</a>]

00:21:14   a machine that doesn't have the right cokie and I gotta go through the email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1274">TS</a>]

00:21:17   thing just that that tiny delay makes me unhappy I rather liked you know auto [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1277">TS</a>]

00:21:23   fill my password is remember one password or use your some other means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1283">TS</a>]

00:21:26   that I can get myself logged in to read the magazine actually telling the sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1286">TS</a>]

00:21:32   up for the magazine subscriber you should do like no I do just show me the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1292">TS</a>]

00:21:35   article [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1295">TS</a>]

00:21:37   year I know but it works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1297">TS</a>]

00:21:42   causing my cookies and web development of some browsers and I'm constantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1302">TS</a>]

00:21:46   wiping cookies and doing private browsing and good I don't know maybe I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1306">TS</a>]

00:21:50   just have to spread maybe it's like to factor where I had to have some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1310">TS</a>]

00:21:53   ramp-up period where I spread the little the authentication tokens to all of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1313">TS</a>]

00:21:58   browsers and all my jars as we call them back in the day but it hasn't happened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1318">TS</a>]

00:22:03   yet again Casey I mean to be honest I don't have a whole lot air I don't mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1323">TS</a>]

00:22:10   it nearly as much as John does but I'm not nearly as much corruption apparently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1330">TS</a>]

00:22:14   I think it's it's interesting because we all hate passwords we all want them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1334">TS</a>]

00:22:20   go away but no obviously nobody's really crack that nut on what the right answer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1340">TS</a>]

00:22:24   is an end for me since this is a site that I'm not gonna look at every single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1344">TS</a>]

00:22:28   day I don't find it as as egregious pain in the butt but with that said it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1348">TS</a>]

00:22:34   something that I used frequently I think I would trying to just as annoying as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1354">TS</a>]

00:22:39   john doe's so yeah I think it's a very hard problem in the magazine I i never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1359">TS</a>]

00:22:44   to this and Instapaper the magazine was the first thing I did was publicly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1364">TS</a>]

00:22:47   any i mean and the way it works in case in case someone is still behind us it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1367">TS</a>]

00:22:52   basically treats every log in like a password reset where you say you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1372">TS</a>]

00:22:57   login type in your email address and email you a link with a with a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1377">TS</a>]

00:23:00   use hash on it and that then the apt read that has for a long until you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1380">TS</a>]

00:23:05   logged in and you know it's like a password reset where you don't even set [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1385">TS</a>]

00:23:10   the new password is logged in and it's it's interesting it solves a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:17   similar to insta papers original no password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1397">TS</a>]

00:23:22   accounts at all it solves some problems but it creates other problems and so I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1402">TS</a>]

00:23:29   not sure if it's a net win in general I think you can look at you know where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1409">TS</a>]

00:23:34   use of here which is kinda like an admin panel I think admin panels and kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1414">TS</a>]

00:23:39   internet type thing where security is needed anything like that we're like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1419">TS</a>]

00:23:44   it's not the general public having to log in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1424">TS</a>]

00:23:48   and you don't have a ton of people using the Gmail app on their phone I know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1428">TS</a>]

00:23:51   to copy links and stuff like that like situations like that I think it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1431">TS</a>]

00:23:57   great solution I think that's why I will probably do this for every admin panel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1437">TS</a>]

00:24:02   that I ever do again because it's it's so much more secure than just having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1442">TS</a>]

00:24:07   some kind of admin password up there and it's it's great for that and I was what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1447">TS</a>]

00:24:14   makes you think is more securities I can see I think it's better from your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1454">TS</a>]

00:24:17   perspective as a person running the service because you don't have to store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:19   passwords and if you don't have to start passwords that means the pressure is off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1459">TS</a>]

00:24:22   you to keep security and you know all that dozens of whatever but I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1462">TS</a>]

00:24:29   if that's better for the people who are using the product because as far as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1469">TS</a>]

00:24:33   they're concerned it's your responsibility to make sure the password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1473">TS</a>]

00:24:36   version of the best result can now make sure you you know you be gripped the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1476">TS</a>]

00:24:41   slower setting another whole crazy stuff like that I think this makes definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1481">TS</a>]

00:24:46   makes it better for you writing this service but as a user of the service I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1486">TS</a>]

00:24:49   don't see any security advantages from my perspective it is slowdowns well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1489">TS</a>]

00:24:54   think the security advantages that my service now becomes as secure as your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1494">TS</a>]

00:24:59   email which is probably more see which you know given that most people use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1499">TS</a>]

00:25:03   webmail for their own email addresses are not for work with most people use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1503">TS</a>]

00:25:07   webmail and most webmail services are are really locking down the security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1507">TS</a>]

00:25:11   really well i think thats I don't think it's that big that bad everything to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1511">TS</a>]

00:25:16   reliable as you said most things are only as secure as your email at most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1516">TS</a>]

00:25:21   anyway cuz you can always do a password reset so you know if I would if I were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:26   to do any kind of set your own password for this even if I would add two factors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:32   I think if I have some way to you need to use your email addresses are reset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:37   mechanism for the most part unless I have my own two factors thing which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1537">TS</a>]

00:25:42   pup it was possible but I think that would be even more overkill if you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1542">TS</a>]

00:25:46   like having to wait for an email and click link you're gonna hate to factor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1546">TS</a>]

00:25:49   but if your gonna delegated authentication to someone else was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1549">TS</a>]

00:25:52   your delegating too are you know provider why not like literally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1552">TS</a>]

00:25:55   delegated authentication to someone else and do what the sites do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1555">TS</a>]

00:25:58   you pick one that you decide to be blessed which is fine for him inside are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1558">TS</a>]

00:26:01   you have three buttons a login with your Facebook ID Open ID and all those cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1561">TS</a>]

00:26:06   your delegating the authentication to an external service but then you don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1566">TS</a>]

00:26:10   to deal with it at all except for writing implication of things in a min [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1570">TS</a>]

00:26:13   page it's ok well you can't log in with Facebook and you can't log in with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1573">TS</a>]

00:26:18   OpenID login with Google you know like you can you can limit your options [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1578">TS</a>]

00:26:22   first of all this is simpler and easier for everybody because they see the big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1582">TS</a>]

00:26:26   the big problem with those Login with Facebook or Twitter or whatever with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1586">TS</a>]

00:26:30   those things and OpenID which is itself a massive trade record of normal person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1590">TS</a>]

00:26:35   usability it even for kickers ability open ideas is a mess but I mean look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1595">TS</a>]

00:26:40   stackoverflow they had they they were OpenID only for the first few years of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1600">TS</a>]

00:26:44   their life and works well but the problem was even with that extremely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1604">TS</a>]

00:26:50   nerdy audience it was still a major problem I think the the environment is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1610">TS</a>]

00:26:55   got not only the team that tonight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1615">TS</a>]

00:26:58   doesn t Springside and idk when it offered as an option but I just created [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1618">TS</a>]

00:27:02   my own account he is the major problem with those kind of things were you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1622">TS</a>]

00:27:06   say log in with OpenID or with Facebook or Twitter the main problem is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1626">TS</a>]

00:27:10   every time you go back to this Site you have to remember which one you login [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1630">TS</a>]

00:27:13   with the first time that's why I was saying just offer one like tournaments [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1633">TS</a>]

00:27:16   are you just pick one that's what I do its your email address I don't know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1636">TS</a>]

00:27:22   I go to the T spring site I click the button that says login with Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1642">TS</a>]

00:27:26   doesn't do anything further because I've already done the thing once when I go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1646">TS</a>]

00:27:29   your side every time I have to click and go get the email but when you go back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1649">TS</a>]

00:27:35   the tee spring site in a year and you haven't used it in an entire year and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1655">TS</a>]

00:27:39   you go back here and it's one of my login with which one was it you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1659">TS</a>]

00:27:44   it's it's a problem that create support emails like crazy you would not believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1664">TS</a>]

00:27:47   how much support that generation you have that kind of option but again for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:50   an inside support as well sure but for I would also argue that freedom in sight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1670">TS</a>]

00:27:56   like there there's really no benefit to doing that your way inside of my way for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1676">TS</a>]

00:28:02   an admin site because either way you're like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1682">TS</a>]

00:28:06   you're likely to hit a small delay sometimes either way you know if if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1686">TS</a>]

00:28:10   you're saying log on my Google account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1690">TS</a>]

00:28:12   might be one or you might have to rely into your Google account might have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1692">TS</a>]

00:28:17   too long since you've last time out like if you're making your cookies last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1697">TS</a>]

00:28:22   four-year whatever that means anyone who you know find someone doesn't like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1702">TS</a>]

00:28:27   but if I log in I have to remember that if I log in a strange machine I have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1707">TS</a>]

00:28:31   make sure that I get rid of that so that that person can perpetually log in as me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1711">TS</a>]

00:28:35   because now that the cookie and I mean whereas with your delegating entirely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1715">TS</a>]

00:28:39   an external service all the management of revoking access and timing out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1719">TS</a>]

00:28:43   whatever is on the external surface right yeah but but also like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1723">TS</a>]

00:28:50   the extra level of complexity of dealing with someone else a service for this it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1730">TS</a>]

00:28:54   adds almost as many annoyances and flaws and support headaches as doing it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1734">TS</a>]

00:29:00   way I'm doing it with emails that that's what is it what is it been like for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1740">TS</a>]

00:29:04   magazine was like this is a bad example history and whatever but it's like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1744">TS</a>]

00:29:09   magazine's many many more people i said im going to be compared to what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1749">TS</a>]

00:29:14   haven't implemented like you know login with your Google account as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1754">TS</a>]

00:29:19   what has that been like you mentioned you mentioned the copy and pasting from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1759">TS</a>]

00:29:23   the Gmail app order is that just because I mentioned to do actually that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1763">TS</a>]

00:29:26   actually I should probably use Gmail some point in my life but now with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1766">TS</a>]

00:29:33   magazine it's it's been interesting this right I'm not sure I would use it again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1773">TS</a>]

00:29:39   for like a big consumer facing thing at least not yet because the main problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1779">TS</a>]

00:29:44   is that when you have a username and password you can enter those no matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1784">TS</a>]

00:29:51   where you are no matter what Apple context you're in you can enter those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1791">TS</a>]

00:29:55   immediately as you say you do not have an account alleged be logged in as long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1795">TS</a>]

00:30:00   as you know the password and yet as people like us use one password and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1800">TS</a>]

00:30:03   generate long-term garbage so for us a little more complicated but most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1803">TS</a>]

00:30:06   don't do that unfortunately so the big problem is first of all your time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1806">TS</a>]

00:30:12   something to email delivery which is similar to tyson to someone else's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1812">TS</a>]

00:30:16   account their opportunities to go wrong or to be delayed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1816">TS</a>]

00:30:19   aid and email delivery can be somewhat assumed to occur you can generally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1819">TS</a>]

00:30:25   assume that an email will usually get there there of course complications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1825">TS</a>]

00:30:29   there but usually Cancino get there but you can't guarantee is it an email to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1829">TS</a>]

00:30:34   get there quickly because there's things like greatest thing and all sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1834">TS</a>]

00:30:39   weird antispam measures and server configurations and everything that will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1839">TS</a>]

00:30:44   frequently delayed message by like a half hour or three hours from the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1844">TS</a>]

00:30:49   time hearing from you or something so that becomes harder when you say alright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1849">TS</a>]

00:30:53   login click here to get an email in two seconds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1853">TS</a>]

00:30:56   well that's great if it comes in two seconds every time but it doesn't always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1856">TS</a>]

00:30:59   come to do seconds for most people and there's like the one percent that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1859">TS</a>]

00:31:03   doesn't come in two seconds for and they get upset and and the email your support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1863">TS</a>]

00:31:06   and there's really no way for you to do anything about that quickly and I keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1866">TS</a>]

00:31:10   entering their email address and click on the button again and again queuing up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:13   seventeen and evaluating their previous 10 minutes right click the third one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1873">TS</a>]

00:31:18   that came not realizing that it was invalidated when you sent the eighth one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1878">TS</a>]

00:31:21   exactly so so it you know it's not perfect in that regard and also you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1881">TS</a>]

00:31:27   what I this is actually one of the last building codes I talked about when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1887">TS</a>]

00:31:32   made the magazine how in an effort of her with the goal of simplicity I wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:38   it to have no settings in the app is no setting screen like to have everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1898">TS</a>]

00:31:42   just be available in the interface with no gear icon with the settings screen on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1902">TS</a>]

00:31:47   it you know I didn't want to some big long list of checkboxes are ever going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1907">TS</a>]

00:31:50   to be very very simple and the problem was that to avoid having a setting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1910">TS</a>]

00:31:53   screen I had to make other dad design decisions like how to logout from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1913">TS</a>]

00:31:58   Instapaper if he would logged into sensitive to it that they were there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1918">TS</a>]

00:32:01   were other decisions ahead to make that were bad decisions in order to support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1921">TS</a>]

00:32:05   this one thing I thought was a good decision and so that the login later the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1925">TS</a>]

00:32:11   password to login system that uses email is it has a few of those things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:15   there's a there's a few weird little stupid things that I had to do to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1935">TS</a>]

00:32:19   that work that are bad design decisions even though the email thing i think is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1939">TS</a>]

00:32:24   overall a good one standing on its own so one of those things is when you when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1944">TS</a>]

00:32:30   you want to connect when you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1950">TS</a>]

00:32:33   think your account between the app and the website on your iOS device or when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1953">TS</a>]

00:32:38   you want to sync your website where you want to be like if you subscribed in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1958">TS</a>]

00:32:43   app and you want to browse it on the website on the desktop or if you decide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1963">TS</a>]

00:32:49   that you want to read it in the ass communicating between the browsers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1969">TS</a>]

00:32:53   in the website and Apple purchased thing in these three different places when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1973">TS</a>]

00:32:59   have a password will be easy it would just be entered this user name and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1979">TS</a>]

00:33:03   password in the other place and you're logged in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1983">TS</a>]

00:33:05   done the way I do it though since there's no password is like for the apt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:10   to register its subscription with the website I have the app compose an email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1990">TS</a>]

00:33:16   message with an attachment that encodes budget data and then it send it to my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/1996">TS</a>]

00:33:21   server the server associate that with the email is sent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2001">TS</a>]

00:33:24   which had a problem with the email that you sent that from is not your primary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:28   email address other problems with that I think I did that a few times I'm very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2008">TS</a>]

00:33:32   confused on launch because I don't use the email address I use for things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2012">TS</a>]

00:33:37   different than the email address I use as my like i club you know exactly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2017">TS</a>]

00:33:43   thats I wouldn't say that's a common case but there's certainly enough people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2023">TS</a>]

00:33:47   who do that that it's problematic if you if you don't support that they expect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2027">TS</a>]

00:33:53   and so there's there's that issue that you know going that way in the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2033">TS</a>]

00:33:57   direction I would like to know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2037">TS</a>]

00:33:58   log-in the website on your device to open this link that I'll mail to you and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2038">TS</a>]

00:34:02   then we'll send you like a the magazine app colon slash slash garbage URL to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2042">TS</a>]

00:34:09   open up in the iOS app to associate in the other direction and that's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2049">TS</a>]

00:34:13   ugly and can have some of its own problems as well so you know i i had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2053">TS</a>]

00:34:18   this this technical need to associate these are catching these two places and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2058">TS</a>]

00:34:23   password really would have a lot easier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2063">TS</a>]

00:34:25   always comes out with the web service API is for iCloud authentication [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2065">TS</a>]

00:34:29   response but yeah and so i think overall I I think the patent system it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2069">TS</a>]

00:34:38   interesting and that's why that's why I did it interesting I i do think I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2078">TS</a>]

00:34:42   going to keep it for admin panel type stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2082">TS</a>]

00:34:44   I don't know if anything else with that as the main thing is you know because in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2084">TS</a>]

00:34:51   fact if people were if this was like 2005 still and most people are still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2091">TS</a>]

00:34:55   doing everything on their computers and you were looking into a website that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2095">TS</a>]

00:35:00   would actually make way more sense and it will be fine I would probably do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:03   no question now with everyone doing things on all these different types of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2103">TS</a>]

00:35:07   devices with all these different like sandbox siloed apps and everything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2107">TS</a>]

00:35:12   everything is running full screen was no good multi tasking and iOS or no clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2112">TS</a>]

00:35:16   indication that all these problems that actually now the system is less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2116">TS</a>]

00:35:21   practical than it would have been in 2005 and I i dont think going to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2121">TS</a>]

00:35:27   again for the main login for something and also another problem is that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2127">TS</a>]

00:35:32   hasn't worked with people expect and because people are used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2132">TS</a>]

00:35:37   username and password or email and password for you so that when you've put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2137">TS</a>]

00:35:41   something up there they don't expect even if it's simple to you and your mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2141">TS</a>]

00:35:46   even if it's simpler they're thrown off for a second leading minute how do I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2146">TS</a>]

00:35:51   this where we put the password I get it slows people down and people make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2151">TS</a>]

00:35:55   mistakes and the question themselves in the doubt themselves and that ultimately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2155">TS</a>]

00:35:58   can make all your goals were like maybe they don't finish sign up for maybe they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2158">TS</a>]

00:36:02   don't finish their shopping cart purchase or whatever so it's a hard call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2162">TS</a>]

00:36:06   if you want to deviate from the norm at something so simple as how do you log [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2166">TS</a>]

00:36:10   into your site that you should use caution if you're deviating on the plus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2170">TS</a>]

00:36:16   side I have gotten almost zero support emails for password related or login [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2176">TS</a>]

00:36:21   related anything the problem is you know if you know if you can't figure it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2181">TS</a>]

00:36:25   you probably just give up but obviously I have no password reset requests which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2185">TS</a>]

00:36:31   any support person the most common request matter how prominent you make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:35   that link of for a password click here to email address wrong there's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2195">TS</a>]

00:36:39   Spoony precautions like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2199">TS</a>]

00:36:41   I don't get any of those for the magazine which is awesome so it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2201">TS</a>]

00:36:45   save support by a dramatic amount but there are other problems with it that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2205">TS</a>]

00:36:50   will give me pause for using it in certain contexts anyway this absurd our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2210">TS</a>]

00:36:58   first sponsor today is not many vault go to Mac Mini vault dot com slash try this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2218">TS</a>]

00:37:06   is pretty cool nachman evil they're basically a Mac Mini Cooper locator and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2226">TS</a>]

00:37:11   getting that music in the datacenter since 2010 they've attended the guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2231">TS</a>]

00:37:15   there have been in business since 95 1995 morning ISPs and hosting services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2235">TS</a>]

00:37:22   so they have a giant cabinet and a wire it to house a whole bunch of Mac minis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2242">TS</a>]

00:37:27   and all the level of efficiency in volume they're able to place your Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2247">TS</a>]

00:37:32   Mini the data center for much less than a standard colocation would cost the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2252">TS</a>]

00:37:35   plans start at just 30 bucks a month and you can use the Mac Mini for pretty much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2255">TS</a>]

00:37:40   anything you can think of me know it's a Mac you have control over it you can do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2260">TS</a>]

00:37:43   whatever you want with it you can use his party or development workflow for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2263">TS</a>]

00:37:47   development and testing you can even use it for web hosting file storage and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2267">TS</a>]

00:37:52   you want you don't even have to use Mac OS 10 on it they leaving load Windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2272">TS</a>]

00:37:55   Server on it or Linux if you if you request that and of course you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2275">TS</a>]

00:37:59   access this Mac Mini from anywhere on the internet and see all the flexibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2279">TS</a>]

00:38:03   that your own server provides you know 1 gigabit per second network connection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2283">TS</a>]

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00:40:07   start to discontinue definitely like we have access to tech podcast that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2407">TS</a>]

00:40:12   accidental server hardware is I don't think they made the Mac Mini thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2412">TS</a>]

00:40:18   this is gonna write the data center but as soon as they made a machine that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2418">TS</a>]

00:40:20   shape people are like 600 of those and you know to you rack up the Mac Mini you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2420">TS</a>]

00:40:27   like when Steve Jobs introduced the Motorola ROKR phone that terrible iTunes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2427">TS</a>]

00:40:32   phone that came out before the iPhone and and you could tell when Steve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2432">TS</a>]

00:40:35   introduced that EA anger about us a while ago you could smell like he just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2435">TS</a>]

00:40:39   really did not like it he he did not like the product he didn't like that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2439">TS</a>]

00:40:43   had to exist like you know the market was demanding something like that and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2443">TS</a>]

00:40:47   they made it kind of reluctantly and he just kind of like you know shouted out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2447">TS</a>]

00:40:51   there and and was ok with it I think the Mac Mini was kinda like that for him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2451">TS</a>]

00:40:57   like I don't think he gave a crap about the Mac Mini [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2457">TS</a>]

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00:41:05   update thing even when the other things going to do with the same CPU it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2465">TS</a>]

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00:41:22   seems to hook well jobs are probably sore about the cute things still has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2482">TS</a>]

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00:41:29   eyes didn't wanna its cool glass still 800 bucks and liners exam admit it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2489">TS</a>]

00:41:41   know it's much too early it's true this one of those pricey didn't seem to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2501">TS</a>]

00:41:43   super duper enthusiasm about but other I mean that's the weird thing like if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:48   company is not enthusiastic a product about a product but a certain subset of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2508">TS</a>]

00:41:52   the customers are and it's very clear that a certain subset of customers is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:56   really interesting about the Mac many people who want us to come and data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2516">TS</a>]

00:41:59   centers and even I've seen people who just you know like users who have lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2519">TS</a>]

00:42:03   of Max just need another Mac to just be an extra machine for back when exposed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2523">TS</a>]

00:42:09   to that goes to support distributed compile I haven't read the new version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2529">TS</a>]

00:42:14   that I know but I can always stop having a Mac Mini in the car to be a media [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2534">TS</a>]

00:42:20   machine and just you know I just need another Mac for this other room so I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2540">TS</a>]

00:42:23   getting many are using it as a server to attached storage doing stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2543">TS</a>]

00:42:27   so I still have that little machine even though Apple like it does not seem to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2547">TS</a>]

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00:42:40   that killed a Mac Mini and it never gets killed it still it's still sitting there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2560">TS</a>]

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00:43:10   so I I mentioned before the break I want to talk about this article by Brent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2590">TS</a>]

00:43:15   Simmons you as you get a chance to read it was rambling about various stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2595">TS</a>]

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00:43:25   to sink on an essential dot com weblog and we will high-speed weblog and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2605">TS</a>]

00:43:30   will post it in the show notes I never see weblog and just made fun of Glen her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2610">TS</a>]

00:43:36   writing that I picked up stream but he also says capital webspace site and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2616">TS</a>]

00:43:42   don't know I don't do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2622">TS</a>]

00:43:44   climbing plants as a lot of things anyway so you know at least at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2624">TS</a>]

00:43:52   vlog didn't catch on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2632">TS</a>]

00:43:54   we can at least be happy about that should also know what before we talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2634">TS</a>]

00:44:00   about now they're talking about stupid word should it for a new media craft we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2640">TS</a>]

00:44:02   invented nerds I've heard a lot of discussion about the word podcast I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2642">TS</a>]

00:44:09   heard there's a great podcast called he called next market have to look this up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2649">TS</a>]

00:44:14   and this guy who does he's doing interviews about people in the pod [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2654">TS</a>]

00:44:18   testing world talk about the business of podcasting and you know Leo Laporte [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2658">TS</a>]

00:44:22   famously does not like the word podcast and use of the word NetCast to describe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2662">TS</a>]

00:44:26   what he does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2666">TS</a>]

00:44:27   damn benjamin has said he doesn't like it but he still uses it because although [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2667">TS</a>]

00:44:31   he tries to do like internet broadcast I think there's there's been a lot of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2671">TS</a>]

00:44:35   know a lot of people who are being in the podcast world have tried to use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2675">TS</a>]

00:44:40   different word and I think what do you think of the word podcast I think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2680">TS</a>]

00:44:46   fair fairly terrible and it was super duper lucky that it caught on the way it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2686">TS</a>]

00:44:51   did because like Apple didn't call it you know it but it was so ride to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:56   Apple's product the iPod there was like a happy accident like oh I guess we home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2696">TS</a>]

00:45:00   this space are named our products practically in it had never been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2700">TS</a>]

00:45:05   bothered by it enough to say you guys are wrong but it's never ever ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2705">TS</a>]

00:45:09   bothered me in any capacity and I'm not the kind of person that says no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2709">TS</a>]

00:45:14   tumblelog over tumblr or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2714">TS</a>]

00:45:16   I might say photocopy I might say Xerox I might say tissue my might say kleenex [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2716">TS</a>]

00:45:21   i know i never get mad and talk about any of those sorts of things are cast as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2721">TS</a>]

00:45:25   a lame where though I can see why people who broadcast like this it pigeon holes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2725">TS</a>]

00:45:29   you into like you make things that people listening to iPods or similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2729">TS</a>]

00:45:33   devices and that is a narrow definition of what could possibly be the future of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2733">TS</a>]

00:45:38   broadcast the future of audio programming note I mean like that well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2738">TS</a>]

00:45:43   but for a while bloggers that kind of word you know for a while saying saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2743">TS</a>]

00:45:48   that somebody else told you that you wrote for a blog that was an insult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2748">TS</a>]

00:45:54   about like blog has it as a useful definition podcast doesn't like blog if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2754">TS</a>]

00:45:59   you look up and something that tries to find a blog it's it's not going to its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2759">TS</a>]

00:46:03   not gonna ever called The New York Times blog because not like a personal single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2763">TS</a>]

00:46:07   voice publication time separated you know your stream of time separated post [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2767">TS</a>]

00:46:12   not divvied up into sections through multiple authors over like a blog has is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2772">TS</a>]

00:46:16   distinct from you know just a website they're riding on the web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2776">TS</a>]

00:46:20   whereas podcast is all-encompassing if you make an audio program that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:24   broadcast over analog radio but distributed through the internet instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2784">TS</a>]

00:46:27   of a podcast and I think that's that's why people don't like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2787">TS</a>]

00:46:32   CI I think I think podcasters don't like it I know people like us about how guest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2792">TS</a>]

00:46:38   podcasters don't like it because of the the the pretty bad connotation and has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2798">TS</a>]

00:46:44   of being low quality is everyone's her bad podcast before recorded by like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:49   know some people talking about their their built-in laptop mics for three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2809">TS</a>]

00:46:53   hours about nothing I guess the time that far from over telling you called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2813">TS</a>]

00:47:00   you think that's why we should get someone on here who objected to it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2820">TS</a>]

00:47:04   like putting broadcaster by trade like you know whatever but like I mean now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2824">TS</a>]

00:47:10   well but like is it because of low quality because radio has terrible low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2830">TS</a>]

00:47:16   quality stuff like the guy was on at 2 a.m. for the college kids who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2836">TS</a>]

00:47:19   broadcasting their students station like radio is filled with terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2839">TS</a>]

00:47:23   programming if you don't believe me I guess I just wake up in the night turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2843">TS</a>]

00:47:26   on the radio there'll be something bring brought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2846">TS</a>]

00:47:29   many frequencies and it will not be high quality content but but it radio as he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2849">TS</a>]

00:47:34   gets slammed for that like oh that's okay it's you know it's an amateur who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2854">TS</a>]

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00:47:49   higher therefore the percentage of crap is higher as well but I really think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2869">TS</a>]

00:47:53   it's because it seems like it's as if every single website we had to be called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2873">TS</a>]

00:47:57   the blog and the New York Times didn't want to be on the web because they knew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2877">TS</a>]

00:48:00   they were not a blog but by putting something up to come to the New York [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2880">TS</a>]

00:48:04   Times blog and I was like no it's it's you know it's getting written word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2884">TS</a>]

00:48:09   online we're not a blog like and even a podcast doesn't have the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2889">TS</a>]

00:48:13   connotations it does it doesn't lessen that like you wouldn't think that if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2893">TS</a>]

00:48:18   you're if you'd fancy yourself as the audio equivalent of the new york times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2898">TS</a>]

00:48:21   you don't want someone calling you a podcast that's my impression but see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2901">TS</a>]

00:48:25   Casey I just I feel like somebody linked on Twitter today to some blog post [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2905">TS</a>]

00:48:34   actually where somebody said that nerds ruin everything and I didn't even read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2914">TS</a>]

00:48:39   it because I could tell I feel like I could tell the gist of it within the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2919">TS</a>]

00:48:42   first couple census which was basically like people who are really passionate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2922">TS</a>]

00:48:45   about things and up over analyzing and ruining them entirely and I kinda feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2925">TS</a>]

00:48:50   like that's what the word exactly when it comes to our podcast I just I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2930">TS</a>]

00:48:56   see why it's that offensive and i guess im not saying I'm right I'm not saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2936">TS</a>]

00:49:00   you're wrong I just don't see what's so bothersome it's just a word to describe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2940">TS</a>]

00:49:04   something and candidly I have never really associated that term specifically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2944">TS</a>]

00:49:09   with iPods maybe that makes me hotter different or weird but i dont Associated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:13   specifically with iPods just like one of you guys said I just associated with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2953">TS</a>]

00:49:17   internet-based radio broadcast what happens to any word used anywhere and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2957">TS</a>]

00:49:21   just becomes becomes the thing it is right but these people have objections [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2961">TS</a>]

00:49:25   their objections we're in the early stages are not there now i make us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2965">TS</a>]

00:49:28   they're still doing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2968">TS</a>]

00:49:29   still still going with NetCast now because that's just what they do with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2969">TS</a>]

00:49:32   becomes it's almost like you know the Netcare slogan from leo has almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2972">TS</a>]

00:49:36   become like a signature brand of his networks as far as I know he's the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2976">TS</a>]

00:49:40   one using it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2980">TS</a>]

00:49:41   yeah I think anybody else said we're doing an outcast they would think like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2981">TS</a>]

00:49:44   defense think he was ripping off Lee genesis of that was in the beginning to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2984">TS</a>]

00:49:50   like I don't want to be thought of as justice thing that people put on iPods [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2990">TS</a>]

00:49:55   because the things that they claim that term know what I'm doing I am I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/2995">TS</a>]

00:50:00   be a broadcaster and I want to have it and then a certain point just continues [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3000">TS</a>]

00:50:04   but if you if you tell apart from the the world before podcast to now and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3004">TS</a>]

00:50:11   want to start when I think he'll be less reticent to call what he does a podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3011">TS</a>]

00:50:16   I don't know maybe I'm kind of case honestly I think the word is a stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3016">TS</a>]

00:50:23   sounding word no question but I cast have two main problems and the 101 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3023">TS</a>]

00:50:31   problem as dan said in his interview on something else I can do it I forgot the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3031">TS</a>]

00:50:37   name of a dance that earlier this week how you know that one of the biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3037">TS</a>]

00:50:41   problem with podcasts is the the barriers involved in getting to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3041">TS</a>]

00:50:47   like if you want to if someone has never listened to a podcast before and wants [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3047">TS</a>]

00:50:51   to and hears about them want to get into them then they have to like first of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3051">TS</a>]

00:50:56   someone to tell them that there was no one knows about them in the rest of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3056">TS</a>]

00:50:59   world nobody knows what the crap podcast is and for the most part it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3059">TS</a>]

00:51:05   pretty much out of the mainstream vocabulary and we have to find an apt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3065">TS</a>]

00:51:12   yet you have to have a smartphone for the most part or listen on your computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3072">TS</a>]

00:51:15   which sucks if you have a smartphone have to find an app to download or two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3075">TS</a>]

00:51:19   to play podcast have to find the podcast within that app and you have to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:23   time to play and have to like here it somehow you put that audio somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3083">TS</a>]

00:51:27   maybe you're listening to headphones but if you drive your car they need to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3087">TS</a>]

00:51:31   at a Bluetooth connection on oxygen cable or something like that there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3091">TS</a>]

00:51:34   technically accessing podcasts is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3094">TS</a>]

00:51:38   is has a lot of barriers to entry right now that's one problem and in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3098">TS</a>]

00:51:43   everything everything is relative to the second problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3103">TS</a>]

00:51:45   the reason podcasts are as popular as they are now is because the iPod lower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3105">TS</a>]

00:51:51   the barrier to entry below some critical threshold beyond which became possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3111">TS</a>]

00:51:54   to be a thing that's true because before that it was like forget it and nobody is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3114">TS</a>]

00:51:59   gonna pull this off and the iPod in general made it possible for people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3119">TS</a>]

00:52:03   take audio from the internet and put in a context where they're actually want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3123">TS</a>]

00:52:07   listen to it so that was like the first hurdle and dance dissatisfaction with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3127">TS</a>]

00:52:12   the current ones like oh that's great and all it made podcast possible to be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3132">TS</a>]

00:52:15   thing that normal people can enjoy but there's this next barrier of like if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3135">TS</a>]

00:52:19   you're interested in a television show you could you're much more likely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3139">TS</a>]

00:52:22   have his coalition watching and tell your relative the name of that show with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3142">TS</a>]

00:52:27   an expectation that they will successfully and maybe it maybe a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3147">TS</a>]

00:52:30   network they will successfully be able to watch that show with no further help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3150">TS</a>]

00:52:33   from you right whereas if you tell him the name of podcasting never listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3153">TS</a>]

00:52:36   podcast they're not gonna make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3156">TS</a>]

00:52:40   yeah yeah it's true I so would like something we are making progress there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3160">TS</a>]

00:52:44   but they're still like the next leap the next leap we can see what it should not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3164">TS</a>]

00:52:49   be it's it's great that it's possible for people to do it on XScale but we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3169">TS</a>]

00:52:53   want to go at 10 under times easier that's right still so to get there that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3173">TS</a>]

00:52:58   gets you know my second problem the second big problem podcasts is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3178">TS</a>]

00:53:01   contest that their low quality but I think that's you know that's something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3181">TS</a>]

00:53:05   that bloggers had to wait out the internet had to wait out like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3185">TS</a>]

00:53:10   that's something that every media has when its new that although the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3190">TS</a>]

00:53:13   mainstream of the established and established media of the previous types [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3193">TS</a>]

00:53:17   all assume or say or you know outright outright defamed the new thing as as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:23   being you know only for amateurs are inferior and mostly because a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3203">TS</a>]

00:53:28   times the beginning they are a tell people how to do them well so I think I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3208">TS</a>]

00:53:36   think the word podcast is fine if we if we could pick a new one that'd be great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3216">TS</a>]

00:53:41   but we can't it's too late and I think people like Leo hussein NetCast or or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3221">TS</a>]

00:53:46   who make their own alternatives I think they're doing a disservice to the pod [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3226">TS</a>]

00:53:50   testing world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3230">TS</a>]

00:53:51   by fragmenting this term because they even like no dance intensive internet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3231">TS</a>]

00:53:56   broadcast or something like that or or even internet radio internet radio shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3236">TS</a>]

00:54:01   and I think the problem is that she me radio exists and that's something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3241">TS</a>]

00:54:04   you know like like streaming radio shock jock a stations and stuff like that or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3244">TS</a>]

00:54:10   even radio like services like Pandora Spotify and Rdio I think those distort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3250">TS</a>]

00:54:16   the meaning of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3256">TS</a>]

00:54:17   if you tell somebody oh I usually get into internet radio shows you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3257">TS</a>]

00:54:21   might think of those things instead of podcast podcast has a very specific [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3261">TS</a>]

00:54:25   meaning that is a very large category that is very distinct from those other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3265">TS</a>]

00:54:30   things and can't really easily be confused with them in the vocabulary so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3270">TS</a>]

00:54:35   I think I think we we have this word I think we're stuck with this word and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3275">TS</a>]

00:54:40   think it's not that you know people would call them amateurish no matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3280">TS</a>]

00:54:43   what you call them because their new still and and I think it's only a matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3283">TS</a>]

00:54:49   of time just like what happened blogs it's only a matter of time before that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3289">TS</a>]

00:54:54   just becomes a normal word for people and they know what youre talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3294">TS</a>]

00:54:57   and it doesn't always have that negative connotation and it's happening more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3297">TS</a>]

00:55:01   slowly with podcasts because the podcasting medium as a whole is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:06   growing explosively as blogs did but it is growing more slowly and it still is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3306">TS</a>]

00:55:11   growing it still is seeping into the world and seeping into the mainstream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3311">TS</a>]

00:55:14   it's just you know it's not it's not exploding in the course of two years but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3314">TS</a>]

00:55:20   I think we just have to wait it out I think the Internet broadcasting thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3320">TS</a>]

00:55:25   and those are the terms their stats still beats trying to corner on new word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3325">TS</a>]

00:55:29   like an outcast do like like that even though it may be confusing trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3329">TS</a>]

00:55:34   come up with the generic term for what you do that doesn't pigeonhole you under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3334">TS</a>]

00:55:37   podcast still beats trying to come up with things like that cast or internet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:42   last Thursday making up some other where'd you know that's why I like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3342">TS</a>]

00:55:47   branding for Twitter because it's like oh well this is a new word that's made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3347">TS</a>]

00:55:50   up as for like the the popularity thing like the celebrities have arrived on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3350">TS</a>]

00:55:54   podcast like celebrities have podcast now so that that phase of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3354">TS</a>]

00:55:59   has begun at least you know what the professionals are here but the thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3359">TS</a>]

00:56:03   in general they're not it's weird that they're not the radio professionals you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3363">TS</a>]

00:56:08   know I mean it's not like howard stern abandoned his radio show to help I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:11   cast his own satellite radio right now so that might appear to be able see well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3371">TS</a>]

00:56:18   I'm like the people who showed up at like stand-up comedians television stars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3378">TS</a>]

00:56:22   people who are not trained as audio broadcasters but they're famous people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3382">TS</a>]

00:56:26   they so then you have you can get a podcast where famous person interviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3386">TS</a>]

00:56:29   another famous person with that name recognition stuff but the thing I worry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3389">TS</a>]

00:56:32   about pot guesses the way we all listen to them hinges on these few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3392">TS</a>]

00:56:38   the mechanism by which they come to be like we get them under iPods or iPhones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3398">TS</a>]

00:56:44   and that relies on software created by our phone maker and you know like how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:49   much of the podcast right now is entirely dependent on the fact that I to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:52   that podcast on iTunes like say the next version iTunes come down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3412">TS</a>]

00:56:56   podcast are no longer there . they're gone then there would be this mad dash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3416">TS</a>]

00:57:00   to Google Reader thing to re-establish that infrastructure somewhere and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:04   just don't have already gone from from the app on iOS well you know me like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3424">TS</a>]

00:57:10   can't you wouldn't be able to go into someplace like on your phone or on your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:14   on your Mac or Windows PC are invariably any device you can go somewhere and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3434">TS</a>]

00:57:18   search based on the name of podcast even find the right search box you can type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3438">TS</a>]

00:57:22   in one of those facilities in a way like they were in the iTunes Store in there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3442">TS</a>]

00:57:26   was no iTunes directory for the media you had to find like a TPI them to find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3446">TS</a>]

00:57:30   this podcast and like get something that can read the field and had to use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3450">TS</a>]

00:57:33   third-party feed reader and stuff like having that centralized clearinghouse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3453">TS</a>]

00:57:37   we rely on that so much because this infrastructure hasn't been built out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3457">TS</a>]

00:57:41   like you said like all right fine what about when you gonna go in your car when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3461">TS</a>]

00:57:44   I have another seven infrastructure barriers to overcome of how do I get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3464">TS</a>]

00:57:47   this audio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3467">TS</a>]

00:57:48   got on my ipod on my phone but now listen to in my car by Carter says the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3468">TS</a>]

00:57:52   radio how to overcome that and it's it's a series of annoying barriers that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:57   preventing it when you really want to just be like someone mentions the name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3477">TS</a>]

00:58:01   of broadcast you know exactly when I type that name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3481">TS</a>]

00:58:04   you type in and then anywhere you are you gonna potential listen to audio you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3484">TS</a>]

00:58:07   can listen to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3487">TS</a>]

00:58:08   thing and we are we are far from that yeah that's true I will give you that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3488">TS</a>]

00:58:12   but I think I think the key to all this is a smartphone I really do i mean i i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3492">TS</a>]

00:58:17   devote a lot of the last episode talking about this topic in particularly I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3497">TS</a>]

00:58:21   that I think the smartphone is the default device to listen to things on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3501">TS</a>]

00:58:27   you know it used to be a part of your pocket they may be at work you do the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3507">TS</a>]

00:58:32   computer or you know at home may be used as some kind of steroid use disk or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3512">TS</a>]

00:58:35   something crazy like that but you know i i think it's very clear now that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3515">TS</a>]

00:58:41   smartphone is the new media player and not just for portable anymore and I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3521">TS</a>]

00:58:48   think it's going we're going to keep going in that direction where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3528">TS</a>]

00:58:50   smartphone is going to continue to be the center of everything including by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3530">TS</a>]

00:58:54   the way including the the way that your car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3534">TS</a>]

00:58:58   not only integrated media but the layer car connects to the internet I really do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3538">TS</a>]

00:59:02   think that's gonna go through smartphone data plan that the phone is going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3542">TS</a>]

00:59:06   your your terminal and your modem and your media player to the world and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3546">TS</a>]

00:59:12   everything will be just like Steve Jobs digital hub thing back you know fifteen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3552">TS</a>]

00:59:16   years ago whenever that was but now it's your phone and not your computer I tend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3556">TS</a>]

00:59:22   to think your right hand something you said a little earlier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3562">TS</a>]

00:59:25   implied a little earlier made me think and I'm gonna put your what you said and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3565">TS</a>]

00:59:28   put words in your mouth and I'm not going to stop talking so you can argue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3568">TS</a>]

00:59:31   with you had said or implied that that podcasting isn't really new anymore and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3571">TS</a>]

00:59:38   and obviously that this is a much more nuanced conversation that then I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3578">TS</a>]

00:59:42   giving the chance to respond to but I found that interesting because I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3582">TS</a>]

00:59:45   actually had friends of mine after the call went to the fact that that I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3585">TS</a>]

00:59:49   podcasting now they they've said to me hey what does it take to do that cuz I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3589">TS</a>]

00:59:55   had no idea for podcast and I wanna do that what did you do and of course I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3595">TS</a>]

00:59:59   said well marketed all the work not just sit here show up and act like a prima [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3599">TS</a>]

01:00:02   donna but but all kidding aside that I've had people come out of the woodwork [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3602">TS</a>]

01:00:06   inside my head really love to do my own podcast when I'm driving it is it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3606">TS</a>]

01:00:10   new in the sense that this is this thing is a medium has been going on for a long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3610">TS</a>]

01:00:14   time but I think it's kind of new in the sense that he poor start regular people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3614">TS</a>]

01:00:20   are starting to grasp this and are starting to wonder hey can I get a piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3620">TS</a>]

01:00:23   of that pie and I don't mean financially just attention wise can I get a piece of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3623">TS</a>]

01:00:27   that pie and so I almost wonder for about to see a renaissance but but but a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3627">TS</a>]

01:00:33   newfound interest in podcasting we're in the same way everyone ended up with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3633">TS</a>]

01:00:38   blog and now everyone has a Twitter account I don't literally mean everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3638">TS</a>]

01:00:43   but I wonder if a lot of what we would call regular people will end up having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3643">TS</a>]

01:00:48   podcasts and so all be talking to space nobody will be listening kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3648">TS</a>]

01:00:52   connected with blog infrastructure because I like like Squarespace right so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3652">TS</a>]

01:00:56   if someone ask that if someone asked me how I wanna have a podcast what i would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3656">TS</a>]

01:00:59   tell them at this point based only on my second hand knowledge of market doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3659">TS</a>]

01:01:02   just like it seems like if you just get express pay site is pretty easy to get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3662">TS</a>]

01:01:06   podcast up and running right and that's like the same thing with back when we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3666">TS</a>]

01:01:10   were blocking its like how I get a blog of you don't tell someone ok step one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3670">TS</a>]

01:01:14   get a shared hosting plans step to you want to tell them to go to edit edit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3674">TS</a>]

01:01:19   this page dot com over the old frontier thing like the one of the first sites [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3679">TS</a>]

01:01:23   that you could you just go to the web page just edited right and across the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3683">TS</a>]

01:01:26   way it is now it was a gigantic explosion in the nahr-e consolidation of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3686">TS</a>]

01:01:30   all these web applications you tell anyone use go to Tumblr type in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3690">TS</a>]

01:01:34   hostname you on any user name you want a password and click a button great your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3694">TS</a>]

01:01:39   blogging good good job by the equivalent of that for podcasting is more or less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3699">TS</a>]

01:01:43   here it seems like with pot with like this where space type thing but we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3703">TS</a>]

01:01:46   haven't seen a proliferation and Marco you set up with was basically that easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3706">TS</a>]

01:01:50   you just go out there and have a podcast and any ideas where space has been a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3710">TS</a>]

01:01:58   sponsor the show for a long time and has future sponsorships and I we should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3718">TS</a>]

01:02:00   disclose that but yeah of course it's it's extremely easy there and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3720">TS</a>]

01:02:04   aren't the people who make it easy I mean you can like I think word I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3724">TS</a>]

01:02:08   think wordpress.com which ones the one that host of our sites stock com I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3728">TS</a>]

01:02:14   think they offer this but there there's been a million podcast plugins for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3734">TS</a>]

01:02:19   WordPress over the years like you could you can pretty easily in lots of ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3739">TS</a>]

01:02:23   where are we at the temblor phase of podcasting we're like if if if some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/3743">TS</a>]

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01:14:41   would agree with all of that and and somebody in the chat rooms probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4481">TS</a>]

01:14:45   laughing at me saying that cuz I get a lot of grief for saying that but i i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4485">TS</a>]

01:14:48   agree with all that with whom do you agree but both these guys really that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4488">TS</a>]

01:14:54   think would be awesome I don't think I will ever do it I don't think apples to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4494">TS</a>]

01:14:56   apples capable of doing it right now but one thing I will say is that I wish wish [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4496">TS</a>]

01:15:03   that we had this is gonna sound so obvious but bear with me I wish we had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4503">TS</a>]

01:15:07   little more insight error not inside out we had a little more access to iCloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4507">TS</a>]

01:15:12   authentication and iCloud in general especially but one of the things I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4512">TS</a>]

01:15:18   been thinking about a lot in the spare time I don't have is to write a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4518">TS</a>]

01:15:24   very very basic list not to do like a grocery list app and what I mean by that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4524">TS</a>]

01:15:29   is my wife and I we use wonder list right now too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4529">TS</a>]

01:15:34   organize our shopping lists 14 the grocery store 14 hardware stores it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4534">TS</a>]

01:15:39   entertainment center and all the wonderful very good it's it's way more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4539">TS</a>]

01:15:44   heavy-handed then then I need I just need a list of things are either checked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4544">TS</a>]

01:15:48   off or not and it one of the things I can think about is writing my own but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4548">TS</a>]

01:15:53   the problem with that is I don't want to have to in the case of mobile services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4553">TS</a>]

01:15:56   my understanding is you can use Facebook to log in this does this sound familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4556">TS</a>]

01:16:00   facebook login use Twitter to login you can use Windows Live login and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4560">TS</a>]

01:16:04   there might be other options are you can roll your own I don't have the patience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4564">TS</a>]

01:16:08   to my own I get no excitement and no Jolly's over rolling my own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4568">TS</a>]

01:16:12   authentication login system I wish I could just use iCloud to handle that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4572">TS</a>]

01:16:19   I know I can win on talking about doing things in their own little silo but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4579">TS</a>]

01:16:25   dont to my knowledge there's no way for me to really sink between iCloud users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4585">TS</a>]

01:16:30   easily and so it's stuff like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4590">TS</a>]

01:16:34   parents talking about that I think would make it really cool and maybe make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4594">TS</a>]

01:16:37   possible for me to make this grocery list app for my wife and I to share that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4597">TS</a>]

01:16:41   uses iCloud is logging mechanism that I don't need to worry about the stuff I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4601">TS</a>]

01:16:46   don't care about and apples what's interesting to me is that Apple is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4606">TS</a>]

01:16:49   usually much usually very good at it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4609">TS</a>]

01:16:52   abstracting away the things that I don't wanna care about improperly extracting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4612">TS</a>]

01:16:57   them and in this case they've they've abstracted as many developers have said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4617">TS</a>]

01:17:01   they've extracted too much and they haven't given given us any any vision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4621">TS</a>]

01:17:05   into it and it's just this big black box we have no control over and it stinks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4625">TS</a>]

01:17:09   and I really wish that a lot of these things that separate talks about were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4629">TS</a>]

01:17:13   possible but I agree with John I don't think that there that Apple's in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4633">TS</a>]

01:17:18   position that they're capable of delivering it and I grew the Marco I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4638">TS</a>]

01:17:21   don't know that they have any interest in it any way they could do the limited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4641">TS</a>]

01:17:25   version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4645">TS</a>]

01:17:26   of this which is they could you know like I just talked about earlier there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4646">TS</a>]

01:17:30   no reason they can provide a web service to authenticate with your iCloud I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4650">TS</a>]

01:17:33   like things that don't involve arbitrary developers giving up a code that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4653">TS</a>]

01:17:39   run on their service on your behalf if they said leave ended the services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4659">TS</a>]

01:17:42   already available through the iCloud API's but did it through you know HTTP [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4662">TS</a>]

01:17:46   endpoint and allowed it you know if you could write about this against the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4666">TS</a>]

01:17:51   and the like which was basically apple.com you know it's taking advantage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4671">TS</a>]

01:17:56   of its own as I know has gone back in time but the iDisk website had a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4676">TS</a>]

01:18:02   JavaScript implementation they would they would hit against you know regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4682">TS</a>]

01:18:06   set of web service endpoint to do its work and I'm assuming I club stuff to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4686">TS</a>]

01:18:10   similar things and it's not just all talking to Apple servicemen talk to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4690">TS</a>]

01:18:14   services behind the scenes but there's no reason they can't expose some or all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4694">TS</a>]

01:18:18   of the things that you currently can only do from an iOS app as a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4698">TS</a>]

01:18:23   Webb BPI's but Apple has never as I always say Apple doesn't understand the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4703">TS</a>]

01:18:27   web I mean that's kind of a harsh way to say it but you know Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4707">TS</a>]

01:18:32   someone understand the web because they they want like the results of its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4712">TS</a>]

01:18:35   restricted iowa's they're not they're not Google they don't win when more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4715">TS</a>]

01:18:39   people here have applications are more people use the web they want people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4719">TS</a>]

01:18:43   use iOS devices so there's not really a lot of incentive for them to say always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4723">TS</a>]

01:18:47   look and now if you use iCloud is your you know things where you store stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4727">TS</a>]

01:18:52   you can make your web app it to like why would they want you to go to your route [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4732">TS</a>]

01:18:56   they think you should be using iOS application so there's no real advantage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4736">TS</a>]

01:18:59   into that but that's one of one of the many many other things to keep away from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4739">TS</a>]

01:19:04   my closets locking you win you can't have it without the use of that same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4744">TS</a>]

01:19:07   back and you can't have an Android app that uses this handbag and it certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4747">TS</a>]

01:19:10   happened to you have an Android app anything else but that's some to some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4750">TS</a>]

01:19:17   degree is that there's no motivation for Apple to do that but on the other side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4757">TS</a>]

01:19:20   they could put web service endpoints for a limited set of things and that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4760">TS</a>]

01:19:27   make like make people less reticent to use it why would ever use you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4767">TS</a>]

01:19:31   call people using I was like a new signing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4771">TS</a>]

01:19:34   your phone is already setup with your Apple ID day it's great to not have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4774">TS</a>]

01:19:37   sign in thing and it's perfect but if you if that's it that's the extent of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4777">TS</a>]

01:19:42   that relationship with this this authentication system that if I call but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4782">TS</a>]

01:19:46   I also want to have a website and so now you got to bend over backwards to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4786">TS</a>]

01:19:49   something like Marco did Blackwell new standards works could you sign in with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4789">TS</a>]

01:19:52   your Apple ID and blah blah but they also have a website but I can't get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4792">TS</a>]

01:19:56   access to that idea so I gotta figure out some system than you know you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4796">TS</a>]

01:19:59   before you know your email and attachments with data in them so I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4799">TS</a>]

01:20:06   also there's there's a problem here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4806">TS</a>]

01:20:07   of I mean first of all you know I guess I can see why people in our in our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4807">TS</a>]

01:20:16   little world of Mac nerds so often talk about this problem but as a as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4816">TS</a>]

01:20:21   developer of Web services and and again because I have a history of doing these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4821">TS</a>]

01:20:25   things myself and I've gotten pretty good recently you know maybe I'm biased [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4825">TS</a>]

01:20:30   here or or my viewers is somehow disorder here but I would I don't I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4830">TS</a>]

01:20:37   don't see the big lineup of people wanting to build web services on Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4837">TS</a>]

01:20:42   cloud infrastructure like that sound like as as a Web service builder I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4842">TS</a>]

01:20:47   never want that because they've shown that they shun partly that they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4847">TS</a>]

01:20:52   really care that much about reliability necessarily or about improving it to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4852">TS</a>]

01:20:57   point where their actions speak louder than words like you know if I'm sure the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4857">TS</a>]

01:21:02   people working on it are trying very hard to to make it work but it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4862">TS</a>]

01:21:06   seems like other company it is a very high priority and you can see that in in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4866">TS</a>]

01:21:10   the relatively little progress it's made over the last few years it just doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4870">TS</a>]

01:21:15   seem like it's it's like a number one priority for the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4875">TS</a>]

01:21:18   the way the way getting out a new iPhone it's like s3 you feel like that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4878">TS</a>]

01:21:24   neutral I guess tereza bucket to put crap it's that you can you understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4884">TS</a>]

01:21:28   the business model behind it because you pay for usage and you're pretty sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4888">TS</a>]

01:21:32   that Amazon well maybe less sure these days that that Amazon is not you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4892">TS</a>]

01:21:38   in competition with Amazon by making your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4898">TS</a>]

01:21:40   application your mobile application on your website that both yesterday right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4900">TS</a>]

01:21:44   but you know I think it got a problem with Apple stuff is that because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4904">TS</a>]

01:21:49   doesn't seem like it's that high priority for the moment I'm it's gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4909">TS</a>]

01:21:53   through so much flux like if I would have built before the show if I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4913">TS</a>]

01:21:58   have built Instapaper on Apple's web service of the time when I started it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4918">TS</a>]

01:22:03   wouldn't building it on something called dot Mac which most people don't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4923">TS</a>]

01:22:07   have never even heard of any of these days most people who use it probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4927">TS</a>]

01:22:11   forgotten about it you know first it was dot Mac and the first it was you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4931">TS</a>]

01:22:17   whatever it was like net tools or whatever that's right tools and there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4937">TS</a>]

01:22:23   was no surf internet blast something and they there is there is that in there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4943">TS</a>]

01:22:28   dot Mac which had like some internet service based things and then MobileMe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4948">TS</a>]

01:22:34   which had more internet-based service things and then iCloud which has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4954">TS</a>]

01:22:38   actually fewer internet-based and there is like Apple's own system is in such [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4958">TS</a>]

01:22:45   flux here I would never want to build on that infrastructure was going to ask you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4965">TS</a>]

01:22:52   if you think about that but if you read if you read conceptualize all those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4972">TS</a>]

01:22:56   things you just listed including iCloud the current one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4976">TS</a>]

01:22:58   not as a as infrastructure which clearly Apple doesn't think of them as not but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4978">TS</a>]

01:23:04   but nearly as ways to make it easier for you develop to develop feature full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4984">TS</a>]

01:23:11   applications for their platforms so you know if you look at it that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4991">TS</a>]

01:23:16   MobileMe . max Inc and all that stuff was a way for you to write a Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4996">TS</a>]

01:23:19   application for you so that you didn't have to write things tough game center [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/4999">TS</a>]

01:23:23   so you can write a game so you don't have to do the matchmaking you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5003">TS</a>]

01:23:26   have to do the server-based boring stuff like this maybe you just write iOS apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5006">TS</a>]

01:23:30   maybe you just right back out maybe you don't know or don't care don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5010">TS</a>]

01:23:33   do the server side stuff so they're trying to make it so hey you wanna you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5013">TS</a>]

01:23:37   wanna write a game but you don't want to maintain servers right against Game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5017">TS</a>]

01:23:42   Center you want to write a Mac application but you don't know anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5022">TS</a>]

01:23:44   about syncing well we have a frame or so many frameworks you know that frameworks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5024">TS</a>]

01:23:47   do the work for you so that all you need to know about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5027">TS</a>]

01:23:50   you know dentistry for your dentist appt a little bit of cocoa to do the URL but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5030">TS</a>]

01:23:54   you don't even know about OpenGL to make but we shall animated stuff you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5034">TS</a>]

01:23:59   was going to get core animation does that for you that if you look at our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5039">TS</a>]

01:24:03   cloud in that respect it's like well hey why the heck would it work outside of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5043">TS</a>]

01:24:07   the whole point of it is just so that you can make a cool I was out there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5047">TS</a>]

01:24:10   lots of interesting features without having to write the server stuff and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5050">TS</a>]

01:24:14   don't have a baby or maybe had to be in a lost it but like if you look at it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5054">TS</a>]

01:24:20   that way it looks less insane but I don't like first of all it doesn't work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5060">TS</a>]

01:24:27   well in whatever then you know as we talked about the length of the show's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5067">TS</a>]

01:24:30   done even even in that respect doesn't work so I got his value even if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5070">TS</a>]

01:24:34   narrow it just to that focus but you know the reason we're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5074">TS</a>]

01:24:39   broadening it out to say having web services and stuff like that is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5079">TS</a>]

01:24:43   we wanted to be an infrastructure component because lots of people around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5083">TS</a>]

01:24:46   applications don't just want it to be easier to make a cool iOS application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5086">TS</a>]

01:24:50   they wanted to be easier for them to run a business or something so S three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5090">TS</a>]

01:24:56   provides that because I don't want to deal with storage but if I passed reform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5096">TS</a>]

01:24:59   I usage I get storage and that solves a storage problems for my business product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5099">TS</a>]

01:25:04   provided like people buy my products have some of their revenue stream that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5104">TS</a>]

01:25:07   can put towards that whereas the iCloud things like what I cannot solve my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5107">TS</a>]

01:25:12   problem how to ride the iOS app but ok now wanna go to ride the Android app I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5112">TS</a>]

01:25:15   have to do something different and Alan are at the web app you know maybe Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5115">TS</a>]

01:25:19   does it well you can enter it up and went up against the same infrastructure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5119">TS</a>]

01:25:21   and Alba like the odd man out of like oh I gotta use icon with that or maybe I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5121">TS</a>]

01:25:25   don't maybe I'll just like everybody else and just use whatever their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5125">TS</a>]

01:25:29   infrastructure thing isn't it again then Apple being fenced out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5129">TS</a>]

01:25:34   infrastructure business like Marco said whatever trust them for infrastructure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5134">TS</a>]

01:25:37   because it doesn't seem like that's what they're making their making this other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5137">TS</a>]

01:25:40   thing yeah but like I said earlier tonight as you just said I think apples [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5140">TS</a>]

01:25:45   apples technologies are developed technologies are so good at distracting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5145">TS</a>]

01:25:48   way the things we don't care about a perfect example of what you brought up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5148">TS</a>]

01:25:51   with animation I mean I don't know crap about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5151">TS</a>]

01:25:54   anything related to an emissions or OpenGL anything like that but I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5154">TS</a>]

01:25:59   animate the crud out of a UIView like the best to them because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5159">TS</a>]

01:26:04   coordination API so simple and so robust and it's really disappointing that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5164">TS</a>]

01:26:10   doesn't happen equivalent just like he said 44 what we call cloud computing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5170">TS</a>]

01:26:15   and I don't think I would use it even if it was available tomorrow but man would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5175">TS</a>]

01:26:20   I be like say wEDC if they announce some sort of cloud computing platform I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5180">TS</a>]

01:26:25   be really darn excited about it I surely wouldn't be the first to use it but I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5185">TS</a>]

01:26:29   be really excited about it I would stay very very far away from them laugh this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5189">TS</a>]

01:26:34   is also about commitment because like you know the fact that they have turned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5194">TS</a>]

01:26:38   over if you think of MobileMe and think it's like wow that was the thing we had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5198">TS</a>]

01:26:42   you know five years ago and you wrote and soldier application five years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5202">TS</a>]

01:26:47   when you made your money from some application and that time is over and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5207">TS</a>]

01:26:49   now we assume you're gonna write a new application and people like a bare-bones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5209">TS</a>]

01:26:53   with your gym with like black so we've still got the old application would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5213">TS</a>]

01:26:56   still like to keep selling because we kept updating an apple like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5216">TS</a>]

01:26:59   that time has passed we have a new thing now so either rewrite your application I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5219">TS</a>]

01:27:04   guess like to work with another solution whereas if you think of something is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5224">TS</a>]

01:27:11   infrastructure like if that at Amazon decided yesterday was our first attempt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5231">TS</a>]

01:27:15   at storage but we're gonna sunset history and we're gonna replace the best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5235">TS</a>]

01:27:19   for because that's one more right and is totally incompatible people will really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5239">TS</a>]

01:27:23   regret starting a project that relied on history as the back in like 10 Dropbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5243">TS</a>]

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01:27:33   you get that reputation like all they're not interested in building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5253">TS</a>]

01:27:36   infrastructure for long-term support and especially with things like web services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5256">TS</a>]

01:27:40   and stuff where you're not touching it with all of our network connections [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5260">TS</a>]

01:27:43   really no reason ever to completely sunset that type of thing like you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5263">TS</a>]

01:27:49   change how St works I'm sure has change behind the scenes change all the hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5269">TS</a>]

01:27:53   way to install the software that runs that you just the present the same API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5273">TS</a>]

01:27:56   endpoints the network and then you're good to go but Apple like it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5276">TS</a>]

01:28:01   making every structure is no pretense of making structural change 17 times since [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5281">TS</a>]

01:28:04   then so that's why everyone is so if Apple ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5284">TS</a>]

01:28:08   to come out with something as they would have to explain say up front we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5288">TS</a>]

01:28:12   understand the difference between infrastructure and the thing that makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5292">TS</a>]

01:28:15   it easier for you to write applications for three years and this is not that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5295">TS</a>]

01:28:19   other thing so trust us and then still they would have to earn that trust in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5299">TS</a>]

01:28:23   you know do a good job and so on and so forth but there's a big gap and also it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5303">TS</a>]

01:28:28   just seems like Apple wants to work in a higher conceptual level than that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5308">TS</a>]

01:28:32   they they they don't want to expose the guts don't want to expose server-side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5312">TS</a>]

01:28:38   functionality they don't want to expose low-level API eyes or or give you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5318">TS</a>]

01:28:43   level data accident that they they wanted to be the ubiquity I cloud API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5323">TS</a>]

01:28:48   that we expose like this and the apps and that's it and I think that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5328">TS</a>]

01:28:54   much to their downfall really I mean there's there's a few cases the benefit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5334">TS</a>]

01:28:58   from that but there's so many that that don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5338">TS</a>]

01:29:01   and as we've discussed in one of the earlier episodes of the show like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5341">TS</a>]

01:29:05   think that the whole concept of that is flawed and the way they would have tried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5345">TS</a>]

01:29:10   to do like i cud is a simple thing just you know get this flag and call this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5350">TS</a>]

01:29:15   function and it works and you know it's not it's not that simple it doesn't just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5355">TS</a>]

01:29:20   work and those concepts I i think is flawed but I you know I don't see Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5360">TS</a>]

01:29:26   ever going lower down the stack and ever offering that kind of like deep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5366">TS</a>]

01:29:31   low-level access execution of arbitrary code in any language in with any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5371">TS</a>]

01:29:37   restrictions I don't see that happening you know i i any kind of like server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5377">TS</a>]

01:29:42   side stuff they would do would probably be in the form of things that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5382">TS</a>]

01:29:48   initiate locally in the apps that you know maybe it may be a newsstand API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5388">TS</a>]

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01:29:58   notification or something like that it would it would be these restricted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5398">TS</a>]

01:30:02   cookie-cutter templates it wouldn't be like oh you can execute arbitrary logic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5402">TS</a>]

01:30:06   on the server and I just don't see that never got into the business value store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5406">TS</a>]

01:30:11   like we will keep saying hi club but we really must talk about the core data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5411">TS</a>]

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01:30:17   limited simple functionality that does not dictate implementations just so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5417">TS</a>]

01:30:21   super limited like your preferences and stuff it's not rare like a star you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5421">TS</a>]

01:30:25   don't hear but but you can imagine like that you like is different in like soap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5425">TS</a>]

01:30:29   and WSDL all that two persons like rest you know you can imagine a really simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5429">TS</a>]

01:30:34   HTTP API for key-value store right it's like it breaks itself it's it's so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5434">TS</a>]

01:30:39   simple because the API so simple and no one is good because no one is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5439">TS</a>]

01:30:44   complaining the key-value store shouldn't exist right brent is talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5444">TS</a>]

01:30:47   about is not that kind of thing makes sense because they're just having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5447">TS</a>]

01:30:50   infrastructure so let me is the application developer worry about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5450">TS</a>]

01:30:54   the details I just need a place that's not here I need a place to talk across [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5454">TS</a>]

01:30:57   the network for me to put my stuff and to be able to get it back later I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5457">TS</a>]

01:31:01   take care of the other details like the bargaining stages I know you want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5461">TS</a>]

01:31:06   everything from making magic at work but that's not working for us so if you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5466">TS</a>]

01:31:09   give me a place to put stuff and I can still use my client authentication which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5469">TS</a>]

01:31:12   is really great I'll take care of the rest of it and you know and then I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5472">TS</a>]

01:31:17   a good application which it's stepping down to say I'm willing to do more work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5477">TS</a>]

01:31:21   to talk to your summer bucket if I can authenticate against that bucket using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5481">TS</a>]

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01:32:09   now this show they didn't even mean to begin accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5529">TS</a>]

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01:33:26   so for the SAT so now we all get a blog I think it was in restitution I thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRQhjYg/5606">TS</a>]

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