The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Andrew Edwards, welcome to the talk show.

00:00:02 ◼   ► Appreciate it. Thank you. Very happy to be here.

00:00:05 ◼   ► I think you texted me personally last week before you tweeted about it, like on threads or wherever, but you were at Google's Made by Google event and said, this is so weird.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Tell me about it.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Yeah, it was weird. So basically, I mean, we've been to these press events before.

00:00:21 ◼   ► I've been to press events from pretty much any company you can think of, and they're all, except for Apple post-pandemic,

00:00:29 ◼   ► they're all pretty much the same thing, right?

00:00:30 ◼   ► You go in, you sit down, and there's a bunch of media there, and there's some sort of presentation about these products that are meant and directed towards the media who are in the audience.

00:00:41 ◼   ► That's pretty much how this works.

00:00:42 ◼   ► If you go to an Apple event, they're going to make a video these days, and you're going to watch the video, which I guess, in a way, the videos almost feel equally meant for media as well as the general public.

00:00:58 ◼   ► If you're interested in what Apple is doing, you can watch an Apple video and kind of be entertained, even if you're not media.

00:01:04 ◼   ► What Google did here was almost put together a media event where they just ignored the audience, or the audience was expected to be a participant in what was going into the cameras.

00:01:19 ◼   ► So they had these huge cameras like you'd see on at The Tonight Show or SNL or something like that, and they're just looking into these cameras.

00:01:26 ◼   ► They're not really paying much attention to us.

00:01:28 ◼   ► And when they sat us down, I want to say maybe 30 minutes before they started or something, they had a guy come up and do a warm-up, like some sort of comic, to warm up the crowd and be like, hey, when you see the applause sign up there, be loud.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Let us know you're enjoying yourself.

00:01:45 ◼   ► And I'm just sitting there like, I came here to learn about a product, not fawn over it to make it look good for anyone who's watching a live stream.

00:01:54 ◼   ► So it felt very strange to me.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And what was, I don't know, even more surprising to me, not to call anyone out, but it seemed like there were some others who thought I was being, like, too harsh.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Other media who were sitting in there, it's like, hey, this is how live shows go.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Haven't you ever been to a live show?

00:02:10 ◼   ► I'm just like, what do you mean?

00:02:11 ◼   ► That's what we're here for.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Matthew Panzerino and I talked about it just a couple days ago on a previous episode of this show, but he wasn't there, which is why I want to talk to you about it.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:20 ◼   ► But I do think, I mean, you tell me, I mean, is it sort of a generational divide where it's the younger, more pure influencer types who are like, hey, this is normal.

00:02:33 ◼   ► You play to the camera and it's the older, let's face it, like us who are a little more, hey, we're here for work.

00:02:41 ◼   ► This is my job to cover this thing.

00:02:43 ◼   ► And it's not about being a dick, right?

00:02:45 ◼   ► It's not like, right.

00:02:47 ◼   ► You know, I'm more specifically Apple-focused, but I have been to Google events.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I wish I went to this one.

00:02:52 ◼   ► I really do.

00:02:53 ◼   ► I've been to events from other companies, and I'm always, I try to be, just like when I see you and I bump into you in June at WWDC keynote.

00:03:02 ◼   ► I'm friendly to other people in the press.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I'm friendly to the PR people from the company that I'm there for.

00:03:08 ◼   ► I'm friendly.

00:03:10 ◼   ► That's how I go about life, but I'm also professional and clapping and applauding is sort of not professional.

00:03:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It's a little strange.

00:03:19 ◼   ► And one thing I saw from, well, first going back to what you just asked, I think there is that generational divide.

00:03:24 ◼   ► I feel like I'm kind of in the middle, almost like people say people who were born like in the, I saw I was born in 1980.

00:03:31 ◼   ► So I think it's Xeniel, they call it, where like, as I became a teenager, the internet came into fruition.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And so I remember, I clearly remember a time before and I clearly remember the time after, but I was of the age where you grabbed onto it very quickly.

00:03:47 ◼   ► And it just became part of your life as opposed to if you were older and you're like, well, what is this internet thing?

00:03:52 ◼   ► I think that it kind of felt like that.

00:03:55 ◼   ► It was like, I'm here to have fun and just cover stuff and show this to my audience.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And if I'm clapping and having a good time, what's wrong with that?

00:04:02 ◼   ► Versus me feeling like if all of us said to ourselves, you know what?

00:04:07 ◼   ► No, we're here for work and we're not going to clap.

00:04:08 ◼   ► That would have been an incredibly awkward presentation.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Like Google counted on the audience to make the presentation what it was.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:18 ◼   ► You know what I'm saying?

00:04:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:19 ◼   ► So in that respect, it was like.

00:04:21 ◼   ► They're putting an onus on the person.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Yes.

00:04:23 ◼   ► That's right.

00:04:24 ◼   ► I did not like that.

00:04:25 ◼   ► One argument I saw from people was, well, you clap when you go to the Apple events.

00:04:29 ◼   ► And it's like, no, at the Apple events, I'm frantically typing and taking pictures and shooting video and trying to post.

00:04:35 ◼   ► The people you hear clapping are the people who work at Apple who probably worked on those products or services that they're announcing.

00:04:41 ◼   ► It's certainly not the press because when I look around at my friends in the media, everybody's frantically trying to get their work done and get posts up as soon as possible.

00:04:48 ◼   ► No one's taking time to clap.

00:04:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:50 ◼   ► It's like I said on the previous episode, I will clap for certain things like when they open with, you know, here's a guy whose life was saved because he drove his car off a mountain and his Apple watch saved his life.

00:05:02 ◼   ► And everybody's, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah.

00:05:05 ◼   ► I clap because also I don't really have notes to take.

00:05:07 ◼   ► My notes say opening video guys life saved by Apple watch.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:12 ◼   ► So my notes are done.

00:05:13 ◼   ► And, you know, who's not happy that some some guy who drove his car off a cliff and his cell phone couldn't reach his phone, got his life saved because his watch issued an SOS alert.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Or somebody with I remember very specifically, there was a really, really good one that Apple did about accessibility where blind people were using either the phones or like a combination of their iPhones and AirPods to like navigate the world.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like somebody, you know, found their hotel room, you know, a door that reads 2114, you know, it's like, oh, that's my hotel room.

00:05:47 ◼   ► And it's like, how do you clap for that?

00:05:50 ◼   ► But for the most part, like when they're saying the new M4 chip is 20 percent more power efficient or whatever.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Let the Apple people clap, you know.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I mean, I'm glad.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Unless it's unless it's an orange device.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Last year, I clapped for the orange AirPods Max.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And this year, if there's an orange iPhone Pro, as rumored, I will clap.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Well, besides that.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:10 ◼   ► For the most part, you don't.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Was there this is a question?

00:06:15 ◼   ► Because I watched the whole video for the made by Google event.

00:06:18 ◼   ► And I mean, it's not the worst.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And I watched I hadn't watched the whole thing when I recorded the previous episode.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Now I've watched the whole thing.

00:06:27 ◼   ► It wasn't so bad that I don't know that they'll never do it again.

00:06:31 ◼   ► But I feel like it needs a lot of tweaks.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And I am glad they're trying something new.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And Google often tries something new.

00:06:38 ◼   ► They seem to be trying to.

00:06:40 ◼   ► They've always seemed to be trying to find their voice for how to do a press event.

00:06:46 ◼   ► But were there Google employees?

00:06:49 ◼   ► Was there a set?

00:06:50 ◼   ► Was it all press in the audience?

00:06:51 ◼   ► Or was there a contingent of homers from Google?

00:06:55 ◼   ► Like Apple, I guess the audience.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I can't say or you can't.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I know for sure.

00:07:00 ◼   ► But what I can say is the audience seemed pretty small.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So, I mean, this is just me gauging off of visuals.

00:07:07 ◼   ► I want to say it was maybe two thirds the size of what would you see in a Steve Jobs theater.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:13 ◼   ► So, there wasn't a lot of people there.

00:07:16 ◼   ► So, if they did make room for Google people, then probably would have been a lot of them.

00:07:21 ◼   ► You know, it does seem like it was a mix of a traditional in-person press event where, like you said, the reps from the company are addressing the media in the audience, even though it is being taped or filmed and broadcast on throughout the world.

00:07:40 ◼   ► And thousands or perhaps even a big enough company, millions of people are watching on YouTube or wherever on video.

00:07:49 ◼   ► And it's at most, even in a big room, a couple hundred media live.

00:07:55 ◼   ► But the address from the stage is to the media and you can perceive that.

00:08:00 ◼   ► But people know, like, if you go to see the real Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon or the Stephen Colbert show or something, you understand when you're in the audience that they are doing a TV show and that they are playing to the cameras and that the cameras are in the way sometimes.

00:08:18 ◼   ► You know, and that the cameras are big and there are big camera people who are standing there and that they're, you're like, well, yeah, I mean, I'm here to watch the taping of a TV show, not a live audience stage show that just happens to be being taped subtly from cameras that are hidden.

00:08:38 ◼   ► You get that.

00:08:39 ◼   ► So, this is sort of a middle ground where they're playing to the camera, but it is live and there is an audience there, right?

00:08:45 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:46 ◼   ► And the weird thing was we weren't even told, I didn't find out it was like this until I stepped into the room.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I would never have guessed.

00:08:53 ◼   ► Why are these cameras so big?

00:08:55 ◼   ► If they would have at least told us in advance, hey, here's what we're doing.

00:08:57 ◼   ► And because here's the thing, like Apple will never tell us in advance what they're going to show, right?

00:09:02 ◼   ► I think there was one time where an Apple invite very clearly told us what it was going to be.

00:09:09 ◼   ► It was the iPhone 5 event that had a number 5 in the invite.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Besides that, they try to be subtle with it, right?

00:09:16 ◼   ► For this one, alternatively, for Google's, Google's event started, I believe it was noon.

00:09:22 ◼   ► No, I think their event started at 1 p.m.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And the embargo for coverage was noon.

00:09:27 ◼   ► So, I was able to put my video out showing what they were going to announce an hour before they started their event.

00:09:33 ◼   ► Ah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:33 ◼   ► Which, Apple would never do that, right?

00:09:35 ◼   ► No.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Hey, our Apple's going to go on stage at 10, but 9 a.m., all the hands-on of the iPhone is going to go on YouTube.

00:09:41 ◼   ► That's just never going to happen.

00:09:42 ◼   ► So, if they allowed us all that information in advance, you could have at least told me, like, hey, here's what we're going to be doing, and here's how it's going to go down.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Just so you know what's going on, because it was so, I've never been to a media event like that ever from any company, where it was like, we were just kind of ignored, except for make sure you clap when the applause sign comes off.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I always, it's harder now, and maybe, because they, I mean, they only have one event a year for the press in the Steve Jobs Theater, right?

00:10:11 ◼   ► It's the iPhone.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Yes, correct.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Which we'll get to later on the show and talk about our thoughts about it, because it's coming up.

00:10:15 ◼   ► What are we, like, a week and a half away or something like that?

00:10:19 ◼   ► And WWDC has a live audience, and it's big, but WWDC has always, even in the old days when it was a real conference,

00:10:30 ◼   ► we were at a keynote in the old WWDC days, like, at the San Jose Conference Center.

00:10:34 ◼   ► I've only gone to them, no, I've only gone to them at Apple Park.

00:10:38 ◼   ► At Apple Park.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So the old way, when it was, like, either at Moscone or then a couple of years afterwards at San Jose,

00:10:46 ◼   ► and I know that it, don't write me, in ancient days, like, in the late 90s, they were in San Jose, too.

00:10:53 ◼   ► But the ones that I remember from Moscone and then the San Jose Convention Center, it's every developer who went to, who bought a ticket for WWDC got to go, too.

00:11:04 ◼   ► And they'd have it in a cavernous, not quite arena, but there were 5,000 people in the room, five or more, right?

00:11:13 ◼   ► It was always, and so the press was just a tiny contingent.

00:11:16 ◼   ► And yes, there were all the Apple employees and executives in the front, but for the most part, it was filled with developers.

00:11:24 ◼   ► And so there was lots of cheering and clapping and stuff because it was developers.

00:11:29 ◼   ► So, of course, that was always a little weird.

00:11:31 ◼   ► And Macworld, way back in the day, I only went to a couple of those as press, but that was the same, too.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Even more so, where it's just fans of the company who went to Macworld Expo and waited in line to go to see the keynote.

00:11:44 ◼   ► But with the traditional press events where you think everybody's either an Apple employee or in the media,

00:11:50 ◼   ► you could always tell, A, the front row and the front few rows is always Apple executives and VIPs.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Board members.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Yeah, and VIPs like people from Pixar and stuff like that, right?

00:12:05 ◼   ► Like I met Leon Critch at one, you know, and I'm sure he was sitting in like the third or fourth row or something.

00:12:10 ◼   ► I didn't meet him in the third or fourth row.

00:12:12 ◼   ► I was in the back with the other hacks.

00:12:14 ◼   ► But then you could always tell where the team members were, right?

00:12:19 ◼   ► If it was like the first version of AirPods with noise canceling and they talk about the noise canceling,

00:12:26 ◼   ► you'd hear the applause from like off to the left.

00:12:30 ◼   ► Oh, that's the team.

00:12:31 ◼   ► They're here.

00:12:32 ◼   ► They're like, woo.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And I like that.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it was kind of fun.

00:12:38 ◼   ► And it was one of those things that was neat about being there in person as the media,

00:12:43 ◼   ► because I don't think I and for many, many years before I started getting invited to attend in person,

00:12:49 ◼   ► I'd watch them online and watch the video.

00:12:52 ◼   ► And all you hear is applause on a video.

00:12:54 ◼   ► You don't hear that it's like a section of people.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Like it's only like 25 people, but they are super excited about P3 color gamut on the display.

00:13:06 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And I feel like we kind of lose that because so since we get to go in person, we still get to hear the applause.

00:13:13 ◼   ► And I remember for Apple Vision Pro, two WWDCs ago, I think that was the last time I said, hey, we have one more thing, right?

00:13:19 ◼   ► And everybody went crazy.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:20 ◼   ► And then I went home and watched it.

00:13:22 ◼   ► It was like, it's just Tim Cook saying, and we have one more thing.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And it's just silence.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:26 ◼   ► I'm like, oh, that's, it just doesn't hit the same when you can't hear at least mic up the crowd or something.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Like, it makes it feel way more dry than what we experienced watching the exact same video in the crowd.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:40 ◼   ► I would definitely say that the incongruity between the in-person experience and the watch at home experience has never been greater.

00:13:50 ◼   ► And I don't think it could be greater than the last few years of WWDC in particular because they still do the thing where they invite, like, a thousand random developers just to attend the keynote and the State of the Union afterwards.

00:14:07 ◼   ► And they're very enthusiastic, super excited to be there.

00:14:11 ◼   ► And there's hundreds of Apple employees, some up close, some in the back, like, way in the back, like, really, really in the cheap seats.

00:14:20 ◼   ► You know, like, when you're behind the media, you have a bad seat, but they're, like, back, right?

00:14:25 ◼   ► Like, guys like me and you.

00:14:27 ◼   ► They're in the cafeteria.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Like, we're, like, strategically at the edge of the sun and the shade.

00:14:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Right?

00:14:33 ◼   ► And it's, oh, no, I don't want to go.

00:14:35 ◼   ► They're like, do you want to move up a little?

00:14:36 ◼   ► No, no, I don't want to get a sunburn.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Absolutely not.

00:14:38 ◼   ► I'm going to sit right here.

00:14:39 ◼   ► But then there are, like, seats all the way back in the cafeteria, literally in the cafeteria that's, like, Apple employees.

00:14:43 ◼   ► You're inside the building.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Right, so you get this stereo effect of, yes, there's people up front cheering because they are the invited developers and Apple employees.

00:14:51 ◼   ► And then there's people behind us cheering, and they're the Apple employees in the cafeteria.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And then there's us miserable hacks typing away or writing in notebooks in the middle.

00:15:01 ◼   ► But we do hear applause, right?

00:15:03 ◼   ► And like you said, like, the one more thing for Vision Pro was a bananas moment on the lawn in Apple Park.

00:15:12 ◼   ► And, you know, it was rumored.

00:15:13 ◼   ► It wasn't like it came out of nowhere.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Everybody sort of expected that Apple was going to announce their headset.

00:15:17 ◼   ► But it was a real moment, right?

00:15:21 ◼   ► It's like, oh, you hear this.

00:15:22 ◼   ► And the people watching at home, or if, you know, me and you watch the video to take notes again at home, you hear nothing.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:30 ◼   ► There's no...

00:15:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it's so weird.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it's very different.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Really weird.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Anyway, I want to talk, too, not just about the event.

00:15:37 ◼   ► I want to talk about what was announced at Google's event, really.

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00:18:03 ◼   ► You also texted me.

00:18:05 ◼   ► I think you texted me before the applause sign.

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00:18:22 ◼   ► And it gets context from your app's experience that Apple promised.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Not even.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Not even.

00:18:27 ◼   ► It's like one better than that.

00:18:29 ◼   ► If you were to text me, hey, where were we meeting for dinner tomorrow?

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00:18:41 ◼   ► And I just have to tap on it and it sends it to you.

00:18:44 ◼   ► So I don't even have to say like, hey, when does mom's flight land again next week?

00:18:48 ◼   ► It'll just offer it up, which I was very impressed by.

00:18:52 ◼   ► What other things can it do?

00:18:55 ◼   ► Tell me more.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Apple has talked about this, has not delivered it, but it's the sort of what's on my screen right now stuff.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Yeah, it can do what's on your screen.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I mean, that's almost table stakes now for Google.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Google, I mean, if you want an AI phone and you're not deeply embedded into the Apple ecosystem of products and services,

00:19:13 ◼   ► Google has made the AI phone because, what was it?

00:19:16 ◼   ► Apple, in the past few interviews, they used the term bolted on AI, right?

00:19:21 ◼   ► We're not just bolting on AI on the side, which I think they were talking about like a chat bot separately.

00:19:26 ◼   ► But now when you look at what Google did with Magic Q, that's the feature that can just offer things up.

00:19:31 ◼   ► It almost feels like the Apple intelligence version is kind of a bolt on two because it's not proactive.

00:19:37 ◼   ► It's still reactive to your request.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Another example they gave was if someone said, hey, could you call the airline about our flight tomorrow?

00:19:46 ◼   ► Instead of writing a response to that person, it will give you, here's the number to United Airlines.

00:19:51 ◼   ► You tap the number to call.

00:19:53 ◼   ► It'll take you into the phone app and start making the call, but it'll also surface.

00:19:56 ◼   ► Here's your flight number.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Here's your flight time.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Here's the airport.

00:19:59 ◼   ► You go, you leave from here.

00:20:00 ◼   ► It just gives you everything right there.

00:20:01 ◼   ► You don't have to look for it.

00:20:02 ◼   ► It's just, it's smart.

00:20:04 ◼   ► And so it's things like that where I'm feeling like if I want an AI device that feels helpful and feels like it doesn't get in my way, or I think a lot of people are also averse to AI just because they feel weird talking to an inanimate object still.

00:20:21 ◼   ► If you can just surface things for me as they appear on my screen, or as you see people ask them of me, or you just see I'm kind of searching, looking for something.

00:20:31 ◼   ► If you can just offer it up and surface it for me, that feels like AI that is actually helpful and still stays out of my way when it's unneeded.

00:20:40 ◼   ► That, I think, is a huge deal, plus the fact that if you are comfortable or willing to use an AI chatbot, the fact that it can see your screen but can also see the world.

00:20:54 ◼   ► So you can just say, hey, take a look through my camera, not a photo, but walk with me and look down, I don't know, look down the aisle of this supermarket.

00:21:02 ◼   ► I'm looking for a can of food that has these types of ingredients, but it's low sodium.

00:21:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:21:07 ◼   ► It can scan for, oh, right there on the second shelf to your right.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Like that is, I think, very cool and kind of shows a practical idea of the future of how AI can be used.

00:21:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:21 ◼   ► And I just used the word on dithering.

00:21:24 ◼   ► It's not out yet, but I guess it'll be out before this episode.

00:21:27 ◼   ► But AI, in some ways, on its own, is superhuman, right?

00:21:32 ◼   ► And I know that word gets tossed around a lot in the context of watching DC and Marvel Universe movies.

00:21:41 ◼   ► But if you just reduce it to the plain language, it just means something that humans can't do.

00:21:46 ◼   ► And computers have always been superhuman in some ways, right?

00:21:50 ◼   ► Like the whole, just the dawn of the PC industry where spreadsheets were the first killer app, so to say.

00:21:58 ◼   ► And like accountants were like, oh, the tabular two-dimensional layout of numbers is already how they were filling out books, green paper books.

00:22:10 ◼   ► But, oh, I could change a number in the middle and all the other numbers update instantaneously?

00:22:16 ◼   ► Superhuman, right?

00:22:17 ◼   ► Because you just, there's no way to do that with pen and paper or even with a calculator, right?

00:22:22 ◼   ► It's, it was totally different.

00:22:24 ◼   ► And AI is superhuman in so many different ways.

00:22:27 ◼   ► But also it is sort of, again, it's just to lean on the superhero analogy.

00:22:33 ◼   ► It is the superhero who it's most like is clearly Tony Stark in Iron Man, right?

00:22:39 ◼   ► Where he's, he doesn't have any superhuman abilities, right?

00:22:43 ◼   ► He's got this augmented suit.

00:22:46 ◼   ► And it is kind of like that, right?

00:22:48 ◼   ► Like if you can just sort of point your phone at the aisle and it's like, I'm so bad at finding Where's Waldo, right?

00:22:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I derive, I'm so bad at it, I derive no pleasure from it.

00:23:00 ◼   ► This is a nightmare for me.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And I know what that's like, especially like if it's a supermarket you don't go to regularly or an item you don't buy regularly.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Of course, the things you buy all the time, you know exactly where they are in the store.

00:23:12 ◼   ► But it's like if you're making a recipe where it's like you need a certain kind of beans and I never even buy beans.

00:23:18 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And it's like, oh my God, where the hell is this?

00:23:21 ◼   ► If something could just say it's right there, third shelf, red can.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Well, that's freaking great, right?

00:23:27 ◼   ► And it totally can do that.

00:23:30 ◼   ► It can already do it, right?

00:23:31 ◼   ► And it's all now just sort of sorting out how are we going to make this more ubiquitous?

00:23:37 ◼   ► Is it going to be glasses?

00:23:38 ◼   ► Is it going to be a badge, a pendant?

00:23:41 ◼   ► Is it, you know, all of the above or there'll be multiple form factors or is it going to settle on one?

00:23:47 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:23:48 ◼   ► But me personally, I'm personally, my personal computing life is shocker in the Apple ecosystem.

00:23:55 ◼   ► And I'm sure a lot of my audience is too.

00:23:58 ◼   ► But you're in denial if you don't see that that sort of, hey, some of this stuff is already real, is already out there.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And you're missing out if that's all you use.

00:24:10 ◼   ► You really are.

00:24:11 ◼   ► And like Apple executives like at WWDC, it's, you know, it's their job.

00:24:16 ◼   ► What are they going to say?

00:24:17 ◼   ► Yeah, we really got caught with our pants down on this stuff.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Of course.

00:24:20 ◼   ► They're not.

00:24:21 ◼   ► They're going to downplay it.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And I don't think it's too late, right?

00:24:25 ◼   ► The truth is somewhere in the middle.

00:24:26 ◼   ► They are not hopelessly behind.

00:24:28 ◼   ► They're just behind.

00:24:31 ◼   ► And they often are behind or they often are measuring twice, cutting once before they come out with their thing, right?

00:24:38 ◼   ► There were smartphones for a decade before the iPhone, right?

00:24:41 ◼   ► And nobody remembers them now.

00:24:43 ◼   ► It was cool, right?

00:24:45 ◼   ► And it was the same way that people who had a smartphone in 2005 or 2006 wouldn't shut up about them, right?

00:24:52 ◼   ► I don't know if you did.

00:24:53 ◼   ► I did not.

00:24:54 ◼   ► It felt cool if I had a computer in my hand.

00:24:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:57 ◼   ► And being able to take, even though they were kind of shitty cameras, but it's like, I have a camera with me everywhere I go.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And I can text you the picture from wherever I am.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Yep.

00:25:06 ◼   ► I don't need to go home and take out an SD card and put it in my computer and copy it over and then put it back on my phone so that, you know, or whatever you had to do.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Or sync, plug it into sync.

00:25:17 ◼   ► Right, sync.

00:25:17 ◼   ► Yep, right.

00:25:18 ◼   ► I could just send it to you right here from the supermarket.

00:25:21 ◼   ► It's out there, right?

00:25:23 ◼   ► And I think the Pixel phones are sort of leading the way.

00:25:26 ◼   ► No, I think so too.

00:25:27 ◼   ► But one thing that's not AI that I thought, you know, I've always loved, I don't know why, maybe it's the drama of it.

00:25:33 ◼   ► This is my version of drama because I don't, as a tech nerd, I love when companies call out other companies on stage.

00:25:39 ◼   ► I just like that.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Like when Steve Jobs was like, hey, let me show you all these other sucky phones before I show you the iPhone.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Here's the palm tree, right?

00:25:46 ◼   ► He's just naming names.

00:25:47 ◼   ► So I did enjoy when Google was like, hey, Apple, we think we have something that stands up to what you're offering in some areas, at least.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And then they introduced PixelSnap.

00:25:56 ◼   ► What was funny about that, though, was Apple created MagSafe and then like, I don't know how you want to put it.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Like they, I don't know if they offered it up or teamed up with, like they allowed it to become a standard.

00:26:10 ◼   ► So when you now incorporate the standard into your device, you can't call out Apple about how, well, we have this tune.

00:26:18 ◼   ► The only reason you have it is because Apple allowed this technology to become ubiquitous for anyone who wants to incorporate it.

00:26:24 ◼   ► That said, I do like the fact that I feel like that's the second biggest thing people talk about from the Pixel event.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Number one is the AI features.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Number two is PixelSnap.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And the fact that on day one of buying a Pixel 10, anything that's ever been a MagSafe device now works with your phone.

00:26:40 ◼   ► So you have this unbelievably large ecosystem of devices that work day one.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And it's not Google's version that you have to look for on the box.

00:26:50 ◼   ► It's just if it's MagSafe, it works.

00:26:51 ◼   ► PixelSnap, it works.

00:26:52 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a good, maybe canonical.

00:26:56 ◼   ► Maybe it's like the best example of the sort of hybrid approach of a proprietary invention and novelty combined with some open source.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Open standards and cooperation from the inventor, in this case, Apple sharing, you know, to make Qi or Qi 2 compatible.

00:27:20 ◼   ► And I think some, even people who use Apple products often are the most critical of Apple's, hey, our way or the highway, use our stuff sort of proprietary mindset.

00:27:34 ◼   ► But they are a very active participant in the standards that they really care about.

00:27:40 ◼   ► They're super active with Bluetooth.

00:27:41 ◼   ► They really did contribute tons to the design of USB-C and really drove the, hey, this is so stupid.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Look at the fact that lightning came first, sort of lit a fire under everybody's ass in terms of how much nicer it is that you cannot plug it in upside down.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And it's like at this point, and it's USB-C and lightning have been around so long that at this point there are like teenagers who don't remember that there used to be plugs that, like a piece of buttered toast, always falling buttered side down.

00:28:17 ◼   ► Yep.

00:28:19 ◼   ► Your first attempt to plug something in on the back of your computer where you can't see, always upside down, every time, guaranteed.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Every time.

00:28:26 ◼   ► I agree.

00:28:28 ◼   ► Yep.

00:28:28 ◼   ► And the Qi thing is a good example where making it proprietary really didn't give Apple any advantage, and it would make the life of iPhone users, including people who work at Apple who carry iPhones, better if, like, when you go to the airport,

00:28:44 ◼   ► if you go to get a cup of coffee or a beer or something, and there's a charger right there that you could just put your iPhone on it, and it'll just start charging.

00:28:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:54 ◼   ► It'll just snap into place.

00:28:55 ◼   ► And making it an open standard makes that possible in a way where if it were more like lightning itself and had to be licensed and, you know, you had to do this, they're not going to put them into airports.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:29:06 ◼   ► And that other phones could use them, too, even if they didn't snap into place.

00:29:11 ◼   ► You just have to hit the sweet spot and rest it there.

00:29:14 ◼   ► So it's a total win, right?

00:29:16 ◼   ► This is just – and it would never happen if it only came from standards bodies.

00:29:21 ◼   ► There's no way that USB-C consortium or any other open consortium was going to come out with something as cool, simple, and elegant as MagSafe.

00:29:30 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:29:32 ◼   ► I agree with that.

00:29:32 ◼   ► I've been – I mean, Qi 2 has been a standard for at least a couple years now, and we've all been kind of confused.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Like, why is no manufacturer on Android side putting this in their phone?

00:29:42 ◼   ► Like, it's – we see a lot of MagSafe cases for Android devices so that you can snap things on the back of your Android devices.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Google's really the first one to, like, embrace it wholeheartedly after a couple years, which is cool.

00:29:54 ◼   ► But I wanted to ask you about this other thing that Google announced.

00:29:58 ◼   ► I think the other main thing is the cameras.

00:30:01 ◼   ► So the first thing is – this is just kind of a footnote.

00:30:06 ◼   ► The main Pixel 10 now, the cheapest one, now gets the telephoto.

00:30:09 ◼   ► So it's kind of been like the Apple iPhone where it had an ultrawide, it had a main, but no telephoto because that would be reserved for the pros.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Google has now brought a telephoto down that goes up to 20x to the main Pixel, which when you look at it, it almost doesn't make sense for a lot of people to go to a pro now.

00:30:29 ◼   ► When you look at everything that just the main Pixel can do.

00:30:33 ◼   ► But that's not what I wanted to ask you about.

00:30:35 ◼   ► What I wanted to ask you about was this.

00:30:36 ◼   ► The Pro line goes up to 100x on their cameras, but when you shoot the photo at 100x, it takes a look at this mess of pixels and it uses AI to generate the actual photo that you end up with.

00:30:57 ◼   ► So what Google said was anything in the photo, it's not looking at, like, what's in it.

00:31:03 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, this is a tree and this is the tree trunk.

00:31:07 ◼   ► It's just looking at the pixels to figure out how should these look from this far away.

00:31:12 ◼   ► If it recognizes a person is in there, it will not enhance them because they don't want you to be able to, like, creep on someone from 100x and take stalker photos from people.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Or to make somebody like a book.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Or just remake them, yeah.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Yeah, just remake them.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And it's like, well, Christ, I know who that was.

00:31:32 ◼   ► That was a picture of Andrew from 100x away.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And now it doesn't look like Andrew at all.

00:31:38 ◼   ► It doesn't look like him at all.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:31:39 ◼   ► But a wildlife, it'll work on anything else but just not human beings.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And I was just like, I don't know.

00:31:46 ◼   ► I see the positive and I see the negative.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Like, it goes back to the whole, what is even a photo anymore?

00:31:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:31:52 ◼   ► So what do you think about that?

00:31:53 ◼   ► 100x.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:31:55 ◼   ► 100x, it is allowing you to take something that looks good.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Unlike the Samsung 100x, which really doesn't, it feels like a gimmick because it's not really usable.

00:32:04 ◼   ► At least Google's giving you something.

00:32:05 ◼   ► Unless you point it at the moon.

00:32:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:32:08 ◼   ► Yeah, then we can superimpose something on there.

00:32:10 ◼   ► When they cheat.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Oh, that's the moon.

00:32:13 ◼   ► Well, we know what the moon looks like.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:15 ◼   ► We just stick it in there.

00:32:16 ◼   ► So what do you think about that?

00:32:18 ◼   ► I wish that there were more companies in this space, right?

00:32:24 ◼   ► Like, I feel like we're lucky, and I was just thinking about this today on a different reason.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Maybe we'll get to it to talk about on the show.

00:32:31 ◼   ► But as frustrated as we can all get at the duopolies of mobile, of there's iPhones and iOS and Android, right?

00:32:43 ◼   ► And at a fundamental level, that's really the only two options.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And when you find other non-Google phones, guess what?

00:32:51 ◼   ► They're all based on Android because Android is open source, so you can do that.

00:32:55 ◼   ► You can make a totally un-Googled version of a phone, but it sucks.

00:33:00 ◼   ► The best we've ever gotten is three with video game consoles, right, where there's Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo.

00:33:10 ◼   ► And I always, my dream would have been, man, imagine if Palm could have made it and WebOS could sort of play the role that Nintendo did and make it a triumvirate.

00:33:23 ◼   ► But there's reasons, you know, it's market forces of why it tends to get squeezed to fewer and fewer platforms.

00:33:32 ◼   ► And I wish there were more so you could get more philosophical differences.

00:33:36 ◼   ► And I don't think Google is doing this just to be different from Apple.

00:33:42 ◼   ► I think it does.

00:33:43 ◼   ► I think this feels Google-y.

00:33:45 ◼   ► I think Google as a company is more, hey, let's do it with code.

00:33:51 ◼   ► If we can do this, let's do it, right?

00:33:54 ◼   ► I've seen the example pictures at 100x.

00:33:57 ◼   ► They look pretty impressive.

00:33:58 ◼   ► They don't look AIE.

00:34:00 ◼   ► I mean, of course, these are example photos that are not going to pay.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I don't know if the reviews are going to come out.

00:34:05 ◼   ► And in real life, they're going to look more AI-generated.

00:34:07 ◼   ► But I know Apple.

00:34:10 ◼   ► Well, I don't know.

00:34:10 ◼   ► I guess I don't know.

00:34:12 ◼   ► But I strongly suspect Apple is not going to do that.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Or even if they did, they would do it to a lesser degree, right?

00:34:20 ◼   ► So, and it's a philosophical.

00:34:23 ◼   ► It's not because they can't, right?

00:34:25 ◼   ► Especially on photography.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Apple has got the chops where they could definitely do it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► You know, and they brought, what do they call it, magic eraser in photos where you can use Apple intelligence.

00:34:36 ◼   ► If there's like a trash can in the picture behind your family, you can draw your finger around it.

00:34:41 ◼   ► And then the trash can goes away.

00:34:43 ◼   ► Even that's actually a philosophical difference, too.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I know.

00:34:46 ◼   ► It's the same thing, right?

00:34:47 ◼   ► To see how on Samsung devices, you can circle and remove something from the foreground.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Like, say, if I covered my face with my hand, I can remove my hand and it'll just draw in a great-looking face.

00:35:02 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:02 ◼   ► Whereas Apple will leave like a mangled mess of a face because Apple's not trying to remake the whole photo.

00:35:09 ◼   ► They're really focusing on distractions in the background.

00:35:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:12 ◼   ► And so it's all levels of a gradient.

00:35:15 ◼   ► It's not binary.

00:35:16 ◼   ► Do you think that AI should be used to generate parts of photos or not at all?

00:35:21 ◼   ► And if you say, yes, it should be allowed.

00:35:23 ◼   ► It can do anything and everything.

00:35:26 ◼   ► And if you say, no, it's not going to do anything at all.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Everybody is doing it to some degree.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And of course they are.

00:35:32 ◼   ► But I think it's sort of like approaching the sweet spot from the, well, Google's going to approach it from the top side.

00:35:41 ◼   ► And if they make an error, they're going to do a little too much.

00:35:44 ◼   ► And Apple is going to approach it from the bottom side.

00:35:47 ◼   ► And if they make them, if they air, they're not going to do enough.

00:35:51 ◼   ► They're going to be a little too pure.

00:35:53 ◼   ► You know, the photo is what photons hit the sensor.

00:35:56 ◼   ► That's the photo.

00:35:58 ◼   ► And so they're not going to fill in a face if you cover half your face, like you said.

00:36:03 ◼   ► So I think it's interesting that they've taken a different approach.

00:36:07 ◼   ► But I personally find myself more aligned with Apple's way of thinking that we should be cautious and that there's time.

00:36:17 ◼   ► If the sweet spot is a little bit more manipulation through AI algorithms, there's time to do that in the years to come.

00:36:24 ◼   ► And we can definitely go back, like you can do it, like look at all the things you can do with your old photos and Apple photos and Google photos, everybody's photos now, right?

00:36:33 ◼   ► You've got all these photos that had no AI at all from 20 years ago.

00:36:38 ◼   ► They're in your photo library and now you can turn them into little 3D things in Vision Pro or on iOS 26.

00:36:45 ◼   ► So there's time to do that later anyway when AI gets better.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So I kind of appreciate Apple's approach of being a little bit more true to let's mostly stick to the photons that hit the sensor, go through the lens, are focused on the sensor, and what hits the sensor is what we're going to show you, right?

00:37:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:06 ◼   ► But, you know, I don't think Google's gone.

00:37:07 ◼   ► I don't think they've gone too far.

00:37:09 ◼   ► But it all boils down to Neela's repeated question.

00:37:12 ◼   ► What is a photo?

00:37:13 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:37:14 ◼   ► So what was your take on Magic Take?

00:37:18 ◼   ► Which one's that?

00:37:20 ◼   ► That's where you have like you, your wife, and your two kids, and this kid looking at it.

00:37:24 ◼   ► So it's taking things that have hit the sensor, but it's combining them so you get the good face on each person.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Right.

00:37:32 ◼   ► In other words, I can take a picture of my wife and son, and then my son can take the camera, and he can take a picture of me with my wife, and then we'll get a picture of the three of us together.

00:37:44 ◼   ► Yeah, that's another one.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's another one, yes.

00:37:46 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:47 ◼   ► I kind of, and again, this sounds arbitrary, and again, maybe the way this will become table stakes and five years from now, everybody, it'll seem silly that I'm arguing this in 2025.

00:38:01 ◼   ► That I don't think it should be part of the built-in camera slash photos app.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Because obviously, you could have done that 20 years ago in Photoshop, right?

00:38:12 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:38:13 ◼   ► You could have done this, you know, you couldn't do it with a click.

00:38:17 ◼   ► You'd have to do the work of highlighting somebody, you know.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:38:21 ◼   ► I was far from a Photoshop master, but I was pretty good at, I remember I was pretty good at knocking somebody out.

00:38:32 ◼   ► In other words, when you take a picture of a person and there's a background, but what you want is just them on a white background, and you'd have to like cut around the person.

00:38:41 ◼   ► And hair, of course, was always the hardest part.

00:38:44 ◼   ► I got pretty good at that.

00:38:45 ◼   ► But you, like, knocking out one person in one photo would be, like, something you would spend, like, an hour on.

00:38:51 ◼   ► And now it's just a right click and it's a left.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:38:54 ◼   ► It's like a totally useless skill, because it's not just that you don't need to do it anymore, but that the automated one-click ones are better than any human has ever been at it anyway.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Correct, right.

00:39:09 ◼   ► So I just sort of feel like it shouldn't be built in.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I don't know why, because it's sort of pretending.

00:39:16 ◼   ► It's more like an art project and less of a photograph.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Right.

00:39:18 ◼   ► It's less, and it's conveying to the user that it's fine to just pretend that this was a photo in the first place, as opposed to making a deliberate choice to create an event that never existed, right?

00:39:35 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:39:36 ◼   ► It's a fine line, though, right?

00:39:38 ◼   ► I mean, and everybody has to find their comfort level in it.

00:39:41 ◼   ► I think, obviously, the comfort level of this will change over time and will expand in the direction of more and more.

00:39:49 ◼   ► And it sounds old.

00:39:53 ◼   ► I guess maybe it's because I am old relative to most of the population today.

00:39:58 ◼   ► But I just sort of feel like it's okay to apply the brakes a little bit as we hurtle forward in the generative AI era, right?

00:40:07 ◼   ► It's like it's all happening already.

00:40:09 ◼   ► There are deep fakes of stills.

00:40:10 ◼   ► There's tremendous deep fakes of videos, right?

00:40:13 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:40:14 ◼   ► And even putting aside using them for malicious or deceptive purposes, which is a hell of a thing to put aside, it just raises questions of, hey, we all have to get more comfortable with accepting that just because you see a video of a thing doesn't mean that it happened.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Yeah, you have to question or see a photo, right?

00:40:37 ◼   ► And I feel like making it a built-in feature of the camera that you can shoot these photos that never existed is doing a disservice to the caution that we should all be developing around this.

00:40:51 ◼   ► How's that for you?

00:40:53 ◼   ► I see that.

00:40:53 ◼   ► No, I see that.

00:40:54 ◼   ► I see that argument very much so.

00:40:56 ◼   ► All right.

00:40:57 ◼   ► Let's take a break.

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00:44:41 ◼   ► Anything else about the Google?

00:44:43 ◼   ► Do you have a review unit of the Pixel?

00:44:46 ◼   ► I have them.

00:44:47 ◼   ► I have them all right here.

00:44:48 ◼   ► You have them all?

00:44:48 ◼   ► I have them all.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Except for the Pro Fold.

00:44:51 ◼   ► The Fold comes a month later.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Comes out in October.

00:44:53 ◼   ► So that review unit hasn't hit yet.

00:44:55 ◼   ► I think the only other thing that I think is very interesting and different and sets it apart

00:44:59 ◼   ► is when you're taking a photo of someone, they're sitting in a chair or whatever.

00:45:05 ◼   ► It'll quickly AI generate that person in different poses in that environment and guide you through

00:45:13 ◼   ► different poses you may not have thought of.

00:45:15 ◼   ► So, and it'll even like different angles too.

00:45:19 ◼   ► So like, hey, if you went off to the side and had that plant by their shoulder, it might

00:45:24 ◼   ► look like this.

00:45:24 ◼   ► So it's like a camera coach in a way to help you just think of different ways to take a

00:45:29 ◼   ► photo of someone while they're trying to pose.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Just another cool and smart way of using AI that it's not making these photos after you

00:45:37 ◼   ► take them.

00:45:38 ◼   ► It's just guiding you towards, instead of just taking the standard person standing in the

00:45:42 ◼   ► center of the frame, right?

00:45:44 ◼   ► Try these other angles based on what's around them to make an interesting photo.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I thought that was cool too.

00:45:48 ◼   ► It makes me wonder though, because I haven't written about it yet because it's, I haven't

00:45:55 ◼   ► used it a lot yet, even though I'm super fascinated by it, is Mark Lavoie used to be in charge

00:46:01 ◼   ► of the cameras in the Pixel team.

00:46:03 ◼   ► And now, a couple of years ago, he left Google for Adobe and Adobe came out with, remember,

00:46:11 ◼   ► what's the name of their new camera app?

00:46:12 ◼   ► Oh, Project Indigo.

00:46:14 ◼   ► That's it.

00:46:15 ◼   ► It's only on iOS.

00:46:17 ◼   ► I will put the link in the show notes, I promise.

00:46:20 ◼   ► But it's a new free camera app from Adobe and Mark Lavoie is one of the leads on it.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And it really suits the Mark Lavoie approach to computational photography, which is a little

00:46:37 ◼   ► more, or a lot less generative and a lot more using computation to do things that you just

00:46:43 ◼   ► can't do without computation involved in the photo chain.

00:46:48 ◼   ► But it's more, with Project Indigo, is more like capturing film-like images in terms of

00:46:58 ◼   ► them looking natural.

00:47:01 ◼   ► And the direction, and the Pixel phones used to go in this direction.

00:47:06 ◼   ► It's just interesting when there are multiple companies with different philosophies.

00:47:10 ◼   ► But the Pixel phones in the earlier eras, like five or plus years ago, would have features built

00:47:17 ◼   ► in that you wouldn't see the effect in the viewfinder as you shot the photo.

00:47:24 ◼   ► Or you'd hit the shutter button and it would capture, but you wouldn't see it right away.

00:47:30 ◼   ► It would require even just a couple seconds of post-processing on device.

00:47:35 ◼   ► You know, like let's say low-light photography, night mode, whatever you want to call it.

00:47:39 ◼   ► But something where you don't want to turn the flash on and you want to capture an image where

00:47:45 ◼   ► it's not enough light and it's going to take multiple images and sort of stitch them together

00:47:50 ◼   ► and do whatever, just computation to get rid of the noise and magically capture a brighter,

00:47:56 ◼   ► sharper image than would be possible without computation involved.

00:48:02 ◼   ► But even if it takes more seconds, Apple's philosophy has been all along, it has to happen right away

00:48:10 ◼   ► or they won't do it.

00:48:11 ◼   ► And even with portrait mode, you see it live in the viewfinder.

00:48:16 ◼   ► And if they can't do it live and maybe with a little bit of post-processing, but that you

00:48:22 ◼   ► wouldn't perceive as a user.

00:48:23 ◼   ► You hit the shutter button, it captures the image.

00:48:25 ◼   ► And if you tap the little thumbnail of the image you just captured, you see it right there.

00:48:30 ◼   ► That's an interesting philosophy too.

00:48:33 ◼   ► It's, you know, that we're going to give you an instant photo and that's it.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Not that it's cheating to take more time, but it's just a philosophical difference that

00:48:42 ◼   ► we don't want to make you wait for it.

00:48:44 ◼   ► And if you have to wait, we're not going to show it to you yet.

00:48:46 ◼   ► And the Mark Lavoie perspective is, what if we do, why not take a couple seconds to actually

00:48:52 ◼   ► do something if you can get an amazing result?

00:48:54 ◼   ► And that's basically what Project Indigo brings to the iPhone is, what if it took three or four

00:49:01 ◼   ► seconds to produce an image on your phone?

00:49:04 ◼   ► And your phone gets warm, you can feel it getting warm, not shooting video, but just

00:49:08 ◼   ► shooting stills with Project Indigo.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Just getting to work.

00:49:10 ◼   ► But you get these amazing images.

00:49:14 ◼   ► I've only played with it a little, but you get these images that don't have that sort of

00:49:20 ◼   ► over sharpened fake.

00:49:22 ◼   ► You know, everybody's sort of tired of it.

00:49:24 ◼   ► It's hard to put your finger on.

00:49:26 ◼   ► The smartphone look.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:49:28 ◼   ► That smartphone look, that's sort of hard to describe.

00:49:31 ◼   ► It's often most easily visible on people's faces because so much of, you know, it's what

00:49:38 ◼   ► we care about.

00:49:39 ◼   ► It's, you know, of course, it's where the focus is, because what do people care about?

00:49:43 ◼   ► Most people only care about the people who are in their photos, right?

00:49:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:49:47 ◼   ► It's the thing most people care about by far the most.

00:49:50 ◼   ► And for some people, it's all they care about.

00:49:52 ◼   ► And so it does things that aren't natural.

00:49:55 ◼   ► It smooths wrinkles and smooth skin tones and over sharpens to some people's eyes.

00:50:02 ◼   ► And you get a certain look right off the camera.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Not just iPhone, not just Pixel, but all the major phones.

00:50:10 ◼   ► And there's differences between them, right?

00:50:12 ◼   ► Samsung loves its vibrant colors, and Apple loves its more natural palette of colors.

00:50:19 ◼   ► But overall, you take all these photos right out of the factory camera app, and there's

00:50:25 ◼   ► a certain shared aesthetic.

00:50:26 ◼   ► And the Project Indigo, and where Pixel used to be more different, even though it involves

00:50:33 ◼   ► way more computation because it takes time, it results in a more natural look.

00:50:38 ◼   ► Can't help but feel if that's why Mark Lavoie is now at Adobe.

00:50:42 ◼   ► This is all my way of saying, without knowing him or ever having met him in person, I kind

00:50:47 ◼   ► of feel like that's why he left Google and went to Adobe, because Google wanted to go in

00:50:52 ◼   ► this direction, and Lavoie is still peddled to the metal pursuing this other direction.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Yeah, that's interesting, because I think Google had to achieve the results they wanted at the

00:51:07 ◼   ► time, they had to rely on that because Silicon wasn't good enough to do what it can do today

00:51:13 ◼   ► without requiring that wait, right?

00:51:16 ◼   ► You can take a great portrait mode photo on a Pixel today without needing to wait two or three

00:51:20 ◼   ► seconds for it to process.

00:51:21 ◼   ► It'll just shoot it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► So I can see them kind of deciding, like, this is what's necessary now, but it's not necessary

00:51:27 ◼   ► anymore.

00:51:28 ◼   ► It used to be, but not anymore.

00:51:30 ◼   ► And Mark's saying, well, we can still wait and just have even better results.

00:51:34 ◼   ► And Google's saying, well, that's not what we're going for.

00:51:37 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:38 ◼   ► And you know this, I know, Andrew, but I think most people listening know that if you use a

00:51:44 ◼   ► lot of third-party apps, I don't know, Halide is one of my favorites, but you can take a raw

00:51:49 ◼   ► image on the iPhone and really just look at what the sensor shows without any processing at all.

00:51:56 ◼   ► And the raw files are huge, put that aside, and you're like, holy shit, this looks terrible.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Vastly different.

00:52:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:02 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Like, the no processing what is right off the sensor look, often it incredibly shows noise

00:52:12 ◼   ► even in daylight, right?

00:52:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:14 ◼   ► It's like, well, how is that even possible, right?

00:52:16 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Why is it noisy even in daylight?

00:52:20 ◼   ► And it's like, yeah, man, I'm telling you, there's a lot of computation that goes into using

00:52:25 ◼   ► these tiny little sensors.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And the biggest of these sensors in our smartphones are so small compared to a frame of 35 millimeter

00:52:34 ◼   ► film, which is this quote unquote full frame sensor in like a DSLR.

00:52:38 ◼   ► They're so tiny.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Even the biggest ones are so small.

00:52:43 ◼   ► That's why everything is noisy.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And it's funny because the arguments people have about smartphone cameras, it's almost

00:52:49 ◼   ► as if they think it's the physical hardware that makes a good camera as opposed to Google's

00:52:57 ◼   ► processing versus Apple's post processing versus Samsung.

00:53:00 ◼   ► It's about who processes that image best because if you're just comparing the sensors from the,

00:53:07 ◼   ► like, no one's going to have a good camera if that's what you mind off of.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Well, or nobody could compete with a big dedicated camera.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:53:14 ◼   ► That's right.

00:53:15 ◼   ► They could compete with each other, but we wouldn't be having these arguments like, hey, do you

00:53:20 ◼   ► even need a point and shoot camera anymore?

00:53:22 ◼   ► And the truth is for 98, 99% of people in the world who, even if you take people who previously

00:53:31 ◼   ► owned a dedicated point and shoot camera or bigger of some sort, I would say at least 95,

00:53:37 ◼   ► 96% of them don't own a camera anymore, right?

00:53:40 ◼   ► There still is a camera industry and the people who really want a camera camera definitely still

00:53:45 ◼   ► want one.

00:53:45 ◼   ► But the consumer end of that is just gone because of cell phones and with good reason, right?

00:53:51 ◼   ► Most people take better pictures with their tiny little sensor iPhones and Android phones than

00:53:58 ◼   ► they ever took with a dedicated camera or Canon or Nikon point and shoot camera.

00:54:02 ◼   ► You get better low light performance.

00:54:04 ◼   ► You get better autofocus.

00:54:06 ◼   ► I have, you know, I really love it and I don't use it all the time, but when I do, I get better

00:54:12 ◼   ► images.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I really love my, I have the Ricoh GR 3X, which is the, it like the, exactly like the Ricoh

00:54:19 ◼   ► GR 3X, except the X has a 40 millimeter equivalent lens instead of 28.

00:54:24 ◼   ► So it's a little more in iPhone terms, closer to the 2X.

00:54:29 ◼   ► It's a great camera.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I love the way the images look.

00:54:34 ◼   ► It has very good autofocus for a little point and shoot camera, but the autofocus is so much

00:54:41 ◼   ► worse than my phone.

00:54:42 ◼   ► It is so much, at least in terms of just making sure somebody's face is in focus, right?

00:54:49 ◼   ► Because an iPhone, if, as soon as you hold it up and there's any human being anywhere in

00:54:54 ◼   ► the frame, it'll immediately focus on a face, no matter what else, like a tree or if there's

00:55:00 ◼   ► any kind of foreground background confusion, like trying to capture somebody at a party where

00:55:05 ◼   ► there's a crowd of people and shoulders of, of other people in front of you, it's going

00:55:11 ◼   ► to latch onto a face in a way that dedicated cameras can't, because there's so much, the

00:55:15 ◼   ► computation is so much better, right?

00:55:17 ◼   ► The lens is tiny and inferior.

00:55:20 ◼   ► The sensor is tiny and inferior to what's in the dedicated camera, but the computer is way

00:55:27 ◼   ► better and way more powerful and the computer programmers at Apple are just way better than

00:55:33 ◼   ► the ones at Canon or Nikon or Sony are ever going to be.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:55:36 ◼   ► So it's, it's a weird trade-off and it's interesting that Lavoie landed at Adobe of all places, which

00:55:43 ◼   ► doesn't really have skin in the game, right?

00:55:45 ◼   ► In terms of making phones or making dedicated cameras, right?

00:55:50 ◼   ► They're just, they truly are a pure software company.

00:55:53 ◼   ► It's an interesting third approach, but I kind of wish he's working on software.

00:55:58 ◼   ► He's working on software to create pictures from your sensor as opposed to, but I kind

00:56:03 ◼   ► of feel like the reason he'd, I think thrived for a few years at Google was that in the early

00:56:08 ◼   ► years of the pixel program, I think Google's hardware was behind where if you looked at this

00:56:13 ◼   ► is why I was talking about raw photos.

00:56:14 ◼   ► If you just looked at a raw image off like a pixel two versus the probably like an iPhone

00:56:21 ◼   ► 10 or something at the time.

00:56:24 ◼   ► I don't know what the, the, you know, exactly here years ago, but the Apple hardware was better.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Take all the computation out of it.

00:56:31 ◼   ► And Google needed more computational photography to sort of get even a word as so many people

00:56:39 ◼   ► argued for so many years and still do to this day.

00:56:42 ◼   ► A lot of people just like the aesthetic of the right off the camera pixel look, but they

00:56:47 ◼   ► were doing it with, I think almost inarguably inferior camera hardware.

00:56:52 ◼   ► Oh yeah, for sure.

00:56:54 ◼   ► But it didn't matter.

00:56:54 ◼   ► And I think that was the big thing is like the hardware matters so much less than what the

00:57:00 ◼   ► software can do.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:57:01 ◼   ► That if you have better software, you can actually get better photography with inferior

00:57:07 ◼   ► hardware, which never used to be true in the old days, certainly in the film era where you

00:57:13 ◼   ► really kind of, I mean, you, obviously if you don't know how to use the camera and don't

00:57:17 ◼   ► know how to set manual exposure or focus, your photos are going to be poorly exposed and out

00:57:24 ◼   ► of focus.

00:57:24 ◼   ► But fundamentally better glass on a better camera was going to result in a better image.

00:57:31 ◼   ► And there was nothing that you could do about it with an inferior lens shooting on an inferior

00:57:36 ◼   ► camera.

00:57:37 ◼   ► There's just nothing you could do.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:57:39 ◼   ► What else?

00:57:41 ◼   ► So what'd you think of the fold?

00:57:43 ◼   ► What's it called?

00:57:44 ◼   ► The pixel?

00:57:45 ◼   ► The pixel 10 pro fold.

00:57:47 ◼   ► It is a mouthful, but it's basically like, okay, you have the pixel 10 pro and now we have

00:57:52 ◼   ► the folding version of the pixel 10 pro pixel 10 pro fold.

00:57:54 ◼   ► I thought it was good.

00:57:55 ◼   ► I mean, there's not much different other than the things we've already talked about that the

00:58:00 ◼   ► pixel 10 pro does that the fold is basically the folding version of the 10 pro, but it's

00:58:05 ◼   ► the first foldable that has the dust rating.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:12 ◼   ► So it's like this hinge is new and this phone is more protected because that's really been

00:58:20 ◼   ► the thing with foldables is you don't want to take your galaxy folds to the beach, for

00:58:24 ◼   ► example.

00:58:24 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:25 ◼   ► You don't want sand getting behind that display and just destroying it.

00:58:28 ◼   ► So you've kind of still had to be careful with, with folds in a way that you really, I mean,

00:58:33 ◼   ► geez, the candy bar phones these days, they can go through so much.

00:58:37 ◼   ► You can, you can put them in the washing machine by accident and it'll come out working fine.

00:58:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:41 ◼   ► So that was really the problem with the folds.

00:58:43 ◼   ► I like, I like, I am a primarily iOS user.

00:58:47 ◼   ► So having something, even the fold seven that from Samsung that came out last month, these

00:58:55 ◼   ► things are really incredible these days.

00:58:57 ◼   ► Like what they started as versus what they are today is really interesting.

00:59:02 ◼   ► My only wish with these things is that they ran iOS, like going back to hardware versus

00:59:07 ◼   ► software, beautiful hardware, great hardware.

00:59:09 ◼   ► And then when I start using, it's like, and I, and I don't hate Android by any stretch

00:59:14 ◼   ► of the imagination, but it's just not, it doesn't feel like home, I guess, to me when

00:59:17 ◼   ► I'm using things.

00:59:18 ◼   ► And when I want to get work done, I don't want to be trying to figure out how I, iOS just

00:59:22 ◼   ► second nature to me for whatever I want to do.

00:59:24 ◼   ► So not to jump ahead to topics, but if Apple does this, then I'll be like all in on just

00:59:31 ◼   ► carrying a foldable with me.

00:59:32 ◼   ► But I like that Google's still doing this.

00:59:35 ◼   ► I like, because since they make Android, it means that other companies that use Android

00:59:41 ◼   ► for their foldables don't have to kludge together their foldable experience on the phone.

00:59:47 ◼   ► Instead, Google builds in, here's features for foldables too that anyone can use.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Right.

00:59:54 ◼   ► People don't talk about it and users don't think about it, but there is this truly essential

01:00:01 ◼   ► role of the platform maker to sort of define, not just define the experience, but then provide

01:00:10 ◼   ► the APIs to the apps to use them to define things like, well, what do you do?

01:00:15 ◼   ► How, how, what do you expect to happen when you're using it on the front?

01:00:20 ◼   ► You know, it's closed.

01:00:21 ◼   ► The book is closed on the phone and you're using the front phone.

01:00:25 ◼   ► So it looks like a regular candy bar, regular smartphone.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And while you're using it, you just open it up.

01:00:31 ◼   ► What happens?

01:00:32 ◼   ► The, obviously you should still be using the app you were using on the front, but does it

01:00:37 ◼   ► expand to the whole square or does it only take half and leave the other half for you?

01:00:42 ◼   ► And what can you do with two phones?

01:00:44 ◼   ► What happens if you snap a window to the slide it to the side?

01:00:48 ◼   ► Does it go defining those gestures and actions and capabilities for like, oh, here's how you

01:00:55 ◼   ► can take two thirds of it for one app and put a skinny little one third thing on the side.

01:01:01 ◼   ► It really matters.

01:01:02 ◼   ► And if anything, the iPad OS 26 that that's coming out in the fall and it has been available

01:01:09 ◼   ► in beta really shows how important it is for the platform to define things like that, right?

01:01:16 ◼   ► Where we've been in iPad users have been suffering for seven, eight, nine years of quote unquote

01:01:23 ◼   ► multitasking.

01:01:24 ◼   ► That's just frustrated everyone from power users to typical non the least powerful users alike

01:01:33 ◼   ► where the typical users are like, how did I get into this mode?

01:01:37 ◼   ► Why is there this weird window on the side of the screen?

01:01:39 ◼   ► I can't get rid of.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And the power users are like, why can't I just make windows that I can drag to any size that

01:01:45 ◼   ► I want?

01:01:46 ◼   ► And, you know, I think that's the sort of definition of a failed paradigm for a bigger screen is when

01:01:54 ◼   ► you ideally you want to make a system that makes everybody happy from the least advanced technical

01:02:01 ◼   ► user to the most advanced, but you should at least make one of them really happy.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And so having it having Google sort of take the reins on how Android is going to handle

01:02:16 ◼   ► at a system level by default and like everything in Android, the third party phone manufacturers

01:02:21 ◼   ► can override it for sure.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Yes.

01:02:23 ◼   ► But say, here's the table stakes of the default Android way of handling this sort of phone,

01:02:28 ◼   ► which it still is a niche.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Somebody on threads and I had to, I don't know, I try to, I read threads and try to never respond

01:02:37 ◼   ► because I feel.

01:02:38 ◼   ► Why is that?

01:02:40 ◼   ► Why is that?

01:02:41 ◼   ► I can perceive I do get good links, right?

01:02:45 ◼   ► And I find interesting stories like, oh, I hadn't heard about this.

01:02:48 ◼   ► This is very interesting.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I saw the most interesting stuff about the Cracker Barrel logo controversy.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Oh, God.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I found on threads.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I, in the, everything else I had read about it, hadn't mentioned this, that there's this

01:03:03 ◼   ► guy, I forget his name.

01:03:04 ◼   ► I blogged about it the other day, but he owns, he owns this holding company and they own the

01:03:08 ◼   ► steak and shake.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Oh, yes.

01:03:11 ◼   ► And he's been trying, he, he owns steak and Cracker Barrel and he's been trying to get

01:03:16 ◼   ► on the board for over 10 years.

01:03:18 ◼   ► And obviously he wants to be the CEO of Cracker Barrel.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And he's the one who got the steak and shake Twitter account to start saying fire this track

01:03:28 ◼   ► Cracker Barrel CEO.

01:03:29 ◼   ► It's just really weird.

01:03:30 ◼   ► It's like, we live in this weird comic book universe where the steak and shake Twitter

01:03:35 ◼   ► account is shitting, shitting on another chain restaurant brand's logo redesign.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Like, that just doesn't happen.

01:03:43 ◼   ► It wasn't supposed to happen.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Like, that's not how brands interact.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Why is this happening?

01:03:48 ◼   ► And it's like, when you find out that it's this guy who's been an activist investor in Cracker

01:03:52 ◼   ► Barrel who owns the other chain.

01:03:54 ◼   ► Oh, that makes sense.

01:03:55 ◼   ► And you find out that he's very pro-Trump and pro-MAGA.

01:04:00 ◼   ► And that's why Fox News and the other Republican friendly US media jumped on this Cracker Barrel

01:04:09 ◼   ► story, right?

01:04:10 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, all of a sudden this thing that didn't make any sense to me.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Like, anytime an app changes its icon or anytime a company changes their logo, everybody's going

01:04:21 ◼   ► to chime in because logos and icons are the sort of thing that even non-designers can say, I like it

01:04:27 ◼   ► or I don't like it.

01:04:28 ◼   ► I don't like change or whatever.

01:04:30 ◼   ► It's an easy thing for everybody to have an opinion on.

01:04:33 ◼   ► But it usually doesn't lead to a company losing 20% of their stock in a day.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Correct.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Like what happened to Cracker Barrel, right?

01:04:39 ◼   ► And in particular, the Cracker Barrel logo change, it wasn't that big a change, right?

01:04:46 ◼   ► It wasn't like they changed the colors.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's like they took the old guy in the barrel off the logo.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:52 ◼   ► They just modernized it with a modern, yeah.

01:04:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And it clearly looks more modern, right?

01:04:56 ◼   ► And you find out things like that the average age of a customer eating in a Cracker Barrel is

01:05:02 ◼   ► 65 years old, which I read in multiple stories this week.

01:05:05 ◼   ► That's not good, right?

01:05:07 ◼   ► If, Andrew, you and I buy a restaurant together and we own a restaurant, we're doing good,

01:05:14 ◼   ► and then we're like, you know, let's have a state of the company meeting, somebody comes

01:05:17 ◼   ► in and says, well, here's some bad news.

01:05:20 ◼   ► We did a survey and the average age of our customer is 65.

01:05:22 ◼   ► You start thinking, well, we're in trouble because the average age of our customer in 15

01:05:30 ◼   ► years is dead, right?

01:05:31 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:05:34 ◼   ► And it's always funny to me when people have, not to go on a tangent on this, but when

01:05:41 ◼   ► a brand has seen multiple years of falling sales, which means people aren't going as much every

01:05:51 ◼   ► single year, for people to then be upset that they're trying to do something to bring some

01:05:56 ◼   ► life back.

01:05:56 ◼   ► It's like, well, now I'm not going to go to Cracker Barrel anymore.

01:05:59 ◼   ► You weren't going, though.

01:06:00 ◼   ► That's the whole reason this problem's been happening.

01:06:02 ◼   ► You were not going.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So what's the difference if you're not going now because you weren't going then?

01:06:07 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:08 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:06:09 ◼   ► It's not like Apple changed their logo and got rid of the apple with a bite out of it.

01:06:14 ◼   ► It's like, well, why would you screw with that?

01:06:15 ◼   ► You're on fire.

01:06:16 ◼   ► You're more popular than you've ever been.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Cracker Barrel is a chain that's in trouble, and the trouble is their clientele is old.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And I think even if you say, I don't like the new logo, I think it's too simple, it's

01:06:29 ◼   ► too minimal, whatever, you have to admit it is clearly younger looking.

01:06:34 ◼   ► It is.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Yes.

01:06:35 ◼   ► It just looks modern.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:06:37 ◼   ► So wild.

01:06:39 ◼   ► I did see someone on thread say he's glad we weren't around to show Apple change from

01:06:44 ◼   ► the Isaac Newton version of the logo to just the simple Apple with a bite out of it.

01:06:48 ◼   ► What would have happened then?

01:06:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:50 ◼   ► Look at this new Apple logo.

01:06:51 ◼   ► But on the other hand, the Apple logo, the old woodcut one with Isaac Newton under a tree,

01:06:57 ◼   ► that was in use for like one year before the Apple II came out.

01:07:01 ◼   ► So it's like there aren't many people who remember Apple before the Apple II, but point taken.

01:07:08 ◼   ► But anyway, I try not to respond to people on threads because I can just see how good,

01:07:16 ◼   ► say what you want about meta overall, and I've said a lot, but they are very, very good at

01:07:22 ◼   ► their core business of keeping people using their platforms.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Yep.

01:07:27 ◼   ► And no other platform I've ever used before, I see it in my feed.

01:07:34 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I need to respond to this asshole.

01:07:37 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, no, they got me.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Right?

01:07:41 ◼   ► I can just see it.

01:07:42 ◼   ► But I don't think it's because I've got a defense mechanism where I'm trying to avoid being

01:07:48 ◼   ► manipulated.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Yep.

01:07:50 ◼   ► And I don't want to waste my time tweeting on the threads, but I can see it.

01:07:55 ◼   ► It's like, oh, they've got me pegged.

01:07:57 ◼   ► They know I'm upset about this.

01:07:59 ◼   ► So it's more of trying not to reply to those kinds of things.

01:08:03 ◼   ► But I assume you'll do like friendly replies.

01:08:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:07 ◼   ► And sometimes, and what was I talking about?

01:08:09 ◼   ► I chimed in on somebody.

01:08:10 ◼   ► I forget where I went before the Cracker Barrel thing, but I chimed in on something.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Oh, I know.

01:08:16 ◼   ► It was about the, thank God.

01:08:18 ◼   ► I'm going to bring this full circle.

01:08:20 ◼   ► It's about foldable phones.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Okay.

01:08:22 ◼   ► And somebody who's, it was arguing, I think, I didn't think they called for Tim Cook to

01:08:28 ◼   ► be fired, but sort of, if all the proof you need.

01:08:31 ◼   ► It was about the very positive reaction that the Galaxy Fold 7 has gotten.

01:08:35 ◼   ► Right?

01:08:36 ◼   ► And it is clearly in today's state of the art for foldable phones, probably the most

01:08:41 ◼   ► impressive overall.

01:08:42 ◼   ► And I've seen a lot of, the reviews are very good and seemingly deservedly so.

01:08:47 ◼   ► But the perspective was, this is the proof that Apple's lost the ball and they're out

01:08:51 ◼   ► of touch and whatever.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And so I did the research, you know, again, wasted time.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Well, this is why I did it.

01:08:58 ◼   ► I was like, ah, they got me.

01:08:59 ◼   ► But I was like, ah, I actually do want to know.

01:09:02 ◼   ► And I feel like it's useful for my work to know the market share of foldable phones right

01:09:06 ◼   ► now.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Right?

01:09:07 ◼   ► I don't, because I don't want to be in the Apple, well, Apple doesn't make one so they

01:09:11 ◼   ► don't matter.

01:09:12 ◼   ► What if it is 5% of the market right now?

01:09:15 ◼   ► It's like, hey, that's actually a pretty big deal.

01:09:17 ◼   ► I looked it up.

01:09:17 ◼   ► It's like 1.2% of the U.S. market is foldable phones.

01:09:21 ◼   ► And I suspect that's high, to be honest.

01:09:24 ◼   ► I think if you go to an airport or Disney World, I mean, I don't know.

01:09:32 ◼   ► What's the best place to get like a cross-section of 100 random or 1,000 to avoid sampling?

01:09:38 ◼   ► Subway.

01:09:39 ◼   ► Subway in New York City.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Yeah, it's Subway in New York City.

01:09:41 ◼   ► If you take 1,000 people going through the Subway in New York City, are you going to get

01:09:46 ◼   ► 1% of them using a foldable phone?

01:09:49 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I guess I do see them in New York.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I've seen the last couple I've seen have been on Amtrak or like at the train station in New

01:09:56 ◼   ► York.

01:09:56 ◼   ► So I might be right.

01:09:58 ◼   ► But I don't think it's far off.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Right?

01:10:00 ◼   ► It's either a little under 1% or a little over 1%.

01:10:03 ◼   ► It's not that big a deal, right?

01:10:05 ◼   ► It's something, right?

01:10:06 ◼   ► These phones are something.

01:10:08 ◼   ► And I know that there are people who already have them and have been using them for a few

01:10:12 ◼   ► years who really swear by them in the same way that there were people using pre-iPhone

01:10:17 ◼   ► smartphones who really swore by them.

01:10:19 ◼   ► And they're like, this is really something.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I'm telling you, you know, I'm doing my email just out of a thing in my pocket.

01:10:24 ◼   ► They were right about that, but wrong about the nature of the form and the software that

01:10:31 ◼   ► it's running.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And I just had to respond to the guy and just say, this is 1.2% of the market or whatever.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I think I saw that reply.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And then I replied because one thing Samsung told us last year with the 6, the launch of

01:10:43 ◼   ► the Fold 6, was that, now remember, there was a Fold 1 through 6.

01:10:47 ◼   ► So the 6 is, you're half a decade in.

01:10:50 ◼   ► And they said about 3% of the market had even touched a foldable before.

01:10:56 ◼   ► So like your friend has one and you just, let me check that out.

01:10:59 ◼   ► So 3% of the market after half a decade, and not a Samsung foldable, just any foldable.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I believe that.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think it's, I don't think it's wrong to say that if and when Apple does a

01:11:12 ◼   ► foldable, it's going to legitimize the market.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:15 ◼   ► You're going to see a jump in percentage.

01:11:17 ◼   ► And the fact that it legitimizes the market means not only is Apple going to sell foldables,

01:11:23 ◼   ► but Apple is going to help Samsung and Google and others sell foldables too by way of legitimizing

01:11:29 ◼   ► it.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And that's just kind of the power that Apple holds.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:32 ◼   ► No, nobody did more to help Android than the iPhone.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Because the Android and in terms of, oh, who copied whom?

01:11:41 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, you know, like slide down notifications.

01:11:44 ◼   ► So yeah, Apple stole that from Google.

01:11:46 ◼   ► It's like Google was first and it's a good idea.

01:11:47 ◼   ► But B, web OS to go back to my, I wish Palm had somehow figured out a way to gain a Nintendo

01:11:55 ◼   ► like foothold.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Like foothold for people, you know, Palm had that first, but anyway, it, that, that's

01:12:03 ◼   ► a detail.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Like you look at the original Android phones from when they first Google bought, what was

01:12:09 ◼   ► his name?

01:12:10 ◼   ► Rubin, Andy Rubin, right?

01:12:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Andy Rubin's company.

01:12:13 ◼   ► They looked like BlackBerrys, right?

01:12:16 ◼   ► They were little square screens with a hardware keyboard underneath and the green and yellow

01:12:21 ◼   ► call buttons and the back and forward buttons.

01:12:23 ◼   ► And they looked like, they looked like open source BlackBerrys.

01:12:28 ◼   ► And if Apple had never made the iPhone, if they were just like, ah, we just, what if,

01:12:33 ◼   ► what if AT&T had said they could never find a cellular partner for it?

01:12:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:12:38 ◼   ► There's some hypothetical world where Apple never built the iPhone and Android probably

01:12:44 ◼   ► would have done.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:12:45 ◼   ► It looks like they were on their way to building something that was probably better than a BlackBerry

01:12:50 ◼   ► or that I would have liked better.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Cause I like it.

01:12:53 ◼   ► They probably would have had a better web browser than BlackBerry ever would have had.

01:12:56 ◼   ► But I think by giving Android a much better concept to copy, it let Android differentiate

01:13:04 ◼   ► itself from everything else quicker than they would have.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Cause otherwise it would have been, well, now Google has a phone that looks like a BlackBerry,

01:13:12 ◼   ► which also looks like the Samsung Blackjack, which I always laugh.

01:13:17 ◼   ► That's actually the name that Samsung gave to their BlackBerry ripoff, the Blackjack.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Motorola had one, right?

01:13:28 ◼   ► It was like the Motorola Q, I think it was all those phones that it was all those phones that

01:13:33 ◼   ► Jobs had on that slide, right?

01:13:34 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:13:35 ◼   ► To their embarrassment, Palm, it started making BlackBerry look alike phones rather than sticking

01:13:42 ◼   ► to, you know, they had the concept with the Palm Pilot.

01:13:45 ◼   ► The whole thing is a screen.

01:13:46 ◼   ► They had it.

01:13:47 ◼   ► Then they were like, well, I guess we'll build a keyboard.

01:13:50 ◼   ► But they had the stylus though.

01:13:51 ◼   ► They had the stylus.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:52 ◼   ► They had the stylus.

01:13:53 ◼   ► It was, and I agree.

01:13:56 ◼   ► But imagine this.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Imagine if there were no foldables yet.

01:14:02 ◼   ► Yep.

01:14:02 ◼   ► Right?

01:14:04 ◼   ► At least not mass market.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Not like Samsung with the fold or Google with this.

01:14:10 ◼   ► And next year, if the rumors are true and Apple debuts its first foldable iPhone.

01:14:16 ◼   ► And imagine if the price is comparable to these other ones, which is around $2,000.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I still think even in today's world, where all these other companies have been making $2,000

01:14:29 ◼   ► foldables for five or six years now, that people, the press is still going to lose their shit

01:14:34 ◼   ► if the Apple foldable phone is $2,000.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Sure.

01:14:38 ◼   ► As though those other ones.

01:14:40 ◼   ► But imagine they didn't exist and Apple unveiled it at $2,000.

01:14:43 ◼   ► Oh.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Absurd.

01:14:45 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Here's the Apple.

01:14:47 ◼   ► It's funny because Apple doesn't sell the most expensive phones anymore.

01:14:51 ◼   ► If you compare it to Samsung, they're almost very comparable in price.

01:14:55 ◼   ► You want a Galaxy Fold.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Not the Fold.

01:14:59 ◼   ► You want the Galaxy S25 Ultra.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Right.

01:15:03 ◼   ► It's going to be very comparable to an iPhone Pro Max.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Like, there's really no price difference at all with these things.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And still, the argument is that Apple products are so much more expensive.

01:15:14 ◼   ► It's like, and it doesn't mean that was never the case.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Like, Apple does charge a premium for a lot of things.

01:15:19 ◼   ► But at least in the smartphone world and in the tablet world, like, it's very comparable.

01:15:24 ◼   ► I do wonder, though.

01:15:26 ◼   ► I mean, and I do think that is, it's just such an obvious price and demand are fixed economic factors that play into consumer demand, right?

01:15:36 ◼   ► So, like, when they start around $2,000, demand is going to be lower than if they were $1,000, right?

01:15:44 ◼   ► And most people, vast majority of people, think $1,000 is a lot of money to spend on a phone.

01:15:51 ◼   ► They might do it, but they still think, oh, Christ, that's a lot of money.

01:15:55 ◼   ► And they think this is how they get you, you know?

01:15:57 ◼   ► And they've got, like, a five-year-old phone, whatever brand, and it's time for a new phone.

01:16:02 ◼   ► And they're in the store, and it's like, they kind of can see, oh, look at, I kind of do want this one.

01:16:07 ◼   ► And it's, oh, jeez, $900.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And they think, man, this sucks.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Because they don't want to spend $900.

01:16:14 ◼   ► They don't want to spend $900 on anything because they're not like us who are tech geeks who are, like, already, we're already out the door with a phone and a bag unlocking it, right?

01:16:25 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:16:25 ◼   ► And most people have much more sense about their tech purchases than people like us or people who listen to shows like this do.

01:16:35 ◼   ► That's why Apple sells so – that's why their lineup of iPhones is so much more complicated than their other products if you want to list them all because they know people are super price sensitive at all of these levels.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Like, from the base model iPhone 16e up, they don't want to spend $500 on a phone, a lot of people, right?

01:17:00 ◼   ► That's – people used to like – it was like the whole cell phone industry was like, hey, just sign up for a two-year plan.

01:17:05 ◼   ► We'll give you a phone, right?

01:17:06 ◼   ► That's what people like.

01:17:07 ◼   ► They're like, yeah, that's the price I want.

01:17:09 ◼   ► I want to pay nothing, and I don't care if it's a piece of junk.

01:17:12 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:17:13 ◼   ► I mean, people still do that.

01:17:13 ◼   ► People still get the –

01:17:14 ◼   ► I know.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Those overtime deals.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:17 ◼   ► They did a huge part of it, right?

01:17:20 ◼   ► I don't think there's any consumer product in the world with more pay overtime options.

01:17:27 ◼   ► Yeah, good point.

01:17:28 ◼   ► You can pay the company who makes the phone over time.

01:17:31 ◼   ► You can pay the company who provides your cell service over time.

01:17:34 ◼   ► You can pay your credit card company over time.

01:17:38 ◼   ► I mean, everybody wants the market from people who want to buy their phones over time.

01:17:44 ◼   ► That is funny.

01:17:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:45 ◼   ► It's like it's your house, your car, and your phone.

01:17:47 ◼   ► Your phone, right.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Because they're relatively expensive.

01:17:51 ◼   ► And now you're talking about a form factor that more than doubles the price most people pay, right?

01:17:59 ◼   ► Of course that's going to keep – so however good and useful they are, and maybe this is the future of all phones,

01:18:06 ◼   ► and five years from now everybody's going to be using a foldable.

01:18:10 ◼   ► I really doubt that, but maybe that's how powerful or effective the form factor is.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Until the price goes below – well below $2,000 and more like $1,000, it is not going to get that much of the market.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Right.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Well, it should also be said – oh, go ahead, go ahead.

01:18:26 ◼   ► Well, I'm just saying people would lose their shit if Apple was the first one to unveil it at $2,000.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I agree.

01:18:32 ◼   ► It would be like the Vision Pro, right?

01:18:34 ◼   ► It would be exactly like the Vision Pro in terms of the consumer reaction or the –

01:18:39 ◼   ► If you look at the foldable –

01:18:41 ◼   ► Yes.

01:18:42 ◼   ► If you look at the foldable market, though, the most popular foldables are the ones that take the candy bar

01:18:47 ◼   ► and fold it in half into a little square as opposed to the book style just based on price alone.

01:18:53 ◼   ► But that's – so even going back to that 3%, that does include those, but those are the vast part of the market.

01:18:58 ◼   ► And actually, believe it or not, Motorola is the leader in the U.S.

01:19:02 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:19:02 ◼   ► In foldable smartphones, not Samsung or Google based on that.

01:19:06 ◼   ► I don't know anybody who owns one of those, though.

01:19:09 ◼   ► I mean, do you?

01:19:10 ◼   ► I see them around when I'm like – you know, I do a lot of – I'm in airports at least, I don't know, three or four times a month.

01:19:18 ◼   ► I will probably see more of those flip style.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Those are called the flip style folds as opposed to the book style folds.

01:19:25 ◼   ► And the people who are younger.

01:19:26 ◼   ► Like, for me, I don't really see the point.

01:19:28 ◼   ► It feels like you're just trying to make space as opposed to – if you open a phone into the size of an iPad,

01:19:35 ◼   ► you have – it's like you can do two different types of work, right?

01:19:39 ◼   ► As opposed to just – I'm just folding my phone in half like the old school flip phones back in the day just to put it in my purse or pocket.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Right.

01:19:46 ◼   ► I don't really see much utility there personally for me, but I think it's more of – it's like a fashion accessory for some people.

01:19:56 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:19:57 ◼   ► It's an accessory as opposed to having something that's – it folds because it's usable.

01:20:02 ◼   ► It just folds because it's cute and it's personality-based.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it's my favorite thing to do in airports.

01:20:09 ◼   ► And as I go back and forth to pee on the airplane is looking at people's devices.

01:20:14 ◼   ► I just love it.

01:20:16 ◼   ► That's funny.

01:20:16 ◼   ► I do the same thing.

01:20:17 ◼   ► I'm just curious.

01:20:18 ◼   ► What do people have on their wrist and in their hands?

01:20:19 ◼   ► Yeah, on their wrist, in their hands, or on their lap, in the seat, in the tray.

01:20:24 ◼   ► It's like, oh, that guy's got – that's a tablet, but it's – oh, it's a Surface tablet.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Wow.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Yep.

01:20:28 ◼   ► You know?

01:20:29 ◼   ► I love – it's the only daring fireball consumer research is conducted in the aisle of an airplane or the seating area around the gate at the airport.

01:20:41 ◼   ► I would guess Apple's is going to be expensive.

01:20:44 ◼   ► It seems like these foldable screens are the primary thing that drives up the cost, the durability, that none of that comes cheap.

01:20:51 ◼   ► And Apple is entering late because they're – they want to do it Apple style.

01:20:59 ◼   ► And supposedly, you know, Gurman keeps reporting.

01:21:01 ◼   ► But of course they do.

01:21:02 ◼   ► I mean, you don't need Gurman to know that Apple doesn't want to have a visible crease on the screen.

01:21:06 ◼   ► They're Apple, right?

01:21:07 ◼   ► And they're not going to ship a phone where it's like, yeah, don't get dust in it.

01:21:12 ◼   ► Right?

01:21:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:14 ◼   ► I mean, I say that knowing that I just wrote yesterday about the rumor that they're going to – or more than a rumor.

01:21:20 ◼   ► It seems like they already leaked.

01:21:21 ◼   ► But they're going to have these tech-woven cases for the iPhone 17 lineup to replace the fine-woven.

01:21:28 ◼   ► So it's like, you know, they are the company that shipped iPhone case – protective cases that themselves weren't durable.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Right.

01:21:37 ◼   ► But your iPhone still was protected.

01:21:39 ◼   ► It's just the case on the outside.

01:21:41 ◼   ► Right.

01:21:42 ◼   ► The point of the case is to protect the phone, but the case needed a case.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Yes, exactly.

01:21:49 ◼   ► I remember looking at Joanna Stern's, like, after a month of use.

01:21:53 ◼   ► It looked like it got, like, run over by a truck on a muddy road or something.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And it was also weird because you would go to the Apple store to check out because they would, like, have them on display.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:02 ◼   ► And they all look terrible because people would, like, pick them up and scratch at them and put them back.

01:22:08 ◼   ► It's like, you just have a display of cases that look so worn.

01:22:11 ◼   ► And remember – I remember years ago, it was, like, either the first iPod Nano or the second one, but there was, like, an iPod Nano that was bizarrely easily scratchable.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Right?

01:22:23 ◼   ► It was, like – it was, like, if you looked at it funny, you could put a scratch on the front face.

01:22:28 ◼   ► Yeah, the whole front.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Like, the Nanos were sort of shaped like the Apple TV remote, like a diving board.

01:22:35 ◼   ► And there was one generation of them that was, like, the plastic part.

01:22:39 ◼   ► It was, like, metal on the back, plastic on the front, and the plastic was super scratchable.

01:22:43 ◼   ► It wasn't unusable, but it was, like, people don't want their $300 iPod to look scratched up.

01:22:50 ◼   ► Not at all.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Not at all.

01:22:52 ◼   ► Jeez.

01:22:52 ◼   ► So, I think whatever led them to the lazy solution of fine woven for iPhone cases, where they clearly only tested them by taking very careful care of them, they're not going to do with the phone itself, right?

01:23:07 ◼   ► Like, they're going to debut with good dust and water resistance and a hinge that can take tens of thousands of foldings and unfoldings without breaking.

01:23:19 ◼   ► All that's going to be expensive.

01:23:21 ◼   ► And I'd really do – I'd almost look – the main reason I look forward to it is not that I want to use a foldable iPhone, because I don't think I do.

01:23:29 ◼   ► But I'm certainly willing to give it a try in a year, but it's mostly to see the press give Apple shit for the price when they're entering a market where all the other phones are at the same price or more expensive.

01:23:42 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:23:43 ◼   ► My guess is that that is going to happen, but I think it's going to be similar arguments to what we see today, which is, for example, most Android phones, even at the base level, have been shipping with 120-hertz screens for years.

01:23:59 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:24:00 ◼   ► So people will say the foldables that are available from others have all these other features, and Apple's has – they're making a foldable with less.

01:24:07 ◼   ► You're getting less for the same amount of money.

01:24:09 ◼   ► And that is kind of my own personal worry as a user, not as a journalist.

01:24:16 ◼   ► I get the phone.

01:24:18 ◼   ► The reason I'm a Pro Max guy is because I want every single camera feature and every – I don't want to have a device that I just know in the back of my mind is missing.

01:24:28 ◼   ► I have a 3X instead of a 5X camera or whatever it might be, right?

01:24:32 ◼   ► And I highly suspect, just based on what other foldable manufacturers do, if you're not aware, the foldable is the most expensive in the lineup, but it's not the best in the lineup as it pertains to the specs of the device.

01:24:47 ◼   ► If you were to get a Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra and compare it to the Galaxy Fold 7, the Ultra, which is $1,000 less, is actually the better device from a camera perspective and things like that.

01:25:02 ◼   ► And so I'm assuming even just based on purpose reporting.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Battery life.

01:25:06 ◼   ► A lot of things.

01:25:07 ◼   ► Durability.

01:25:07 ◼   ► Apple – it sounds to me, and this is me pontificating on what I've been seeing, the foldable from Apple will be more akin to an iPhone non-pro than a Pro.

01:25:23 ◼   ► It'll be the foldable iPhone, not the foldable iPhone Pro.

01:25:27 ◼   ► And then maybe that leaves room in the future for a foldable Pro version.

01:25:32 ◼   ► But when I hear, like, you know, it's going to have two cameras on the back, right?

01:25:36 ◼   ► That's an entry-level iPhone thing.

01:25:38 ◼   ► Right.

01:25:38 ◼   ► That's not a Pro iPhone thing.

01:25:41 ◼   ► So just things like that, where other phones have more cameras, other phones have these features, other phones have those features, and then Apple's giving us this for $2,000.

01:25:48 ◼   ► How dare they?

01:25:50 ◼   ► That's what I'm expecting to see.

01:25:51 ◼   ► Definitely.

01:25:53 ◼   ► All right.

01:25:53 ◼   ► Let me take a break here.

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01:29:08 ◼   ► I feel like the show is leading inexorably towards the Apple event coming in a week and a half.

01:29:14 ◼   ► We've been talking about Apple's foldable phone, which is next year's, I guess, 53 and a half weeks away, probably.

01:29:21 ◼   ► I keep wanting to say awe-inspiring, but it's awe-dropping.

01:29:27 ◼   ► Awe-dropping.

01:29:28 ◼   ► Like jaw-dropping, yes.

01:29:29 ◼   ► Yeah, jaw-dropping.

01:29:30 ◼   ► Of course, because awe-inspiring isn't a pun.

01:29:33 ◼   ► It's just a phrase.

01:29:34 ◼   ► I wonder, you know, Apple always comes up with these puns for their event names.

01:29:39 ◼   ► I wonder how short the list is getting, or if they've got an infinite list of them.

01:29:43 ◼   ► The logo is sort of an infrared Apple logo.

01:29:47 ◼   ► I love the Kremlin, I always call it Kremlin-ology of trying to decipher the meaning of the logo theme.

01:29:54 ◼   ► Do you have any guesses based on this one?

01:29:57 ◼   ► Yeah, for me, it was just about the colors.

01:30:00 ◼   ► You've got that dark blue in there, which, and you got the orange, which seems to be the two, I want to call them rumored, but it's, I don't know, it's almost leaked.

01:30:10 ◼   ► A lot of times these things feel like they're confirmed before we get there.

01:30:13 ◼   ► So the orange and the dark blue iPhone Pros, and then this lighter sky blue, which would be the, I assumed, like the hero color of the new iPhone Air.

01:30:22 ◼   ► So I think that's kind of what this is telling us.

01:30:26 ◼   ► I do too.

01:30:27 ◼   ► I have bought a new iPhone every year since they come out.

01:30:32 ◼   ► And at this point, it's like, what am I doing?

01:30:34 ◼   ► This is, I mean, even me, I'm still using an M1 MacBook Pro.

01:30:38 ◼   ► My iPad is from 2018.

01:30:40 ◼   ► I tend not to buy a new thing every year.

01:30:42 ◼   ► I like to buy a new maxed out thing and then use it for a few years.

01:30:46 ◼   ► So with the iPhone, I keep buying a new one because it's like now, well, now it's a thing.

01:30:50 ◼   ► And I want to keep doing it.

01:30:51 ◼   ► And I do, I've started selling, I don't keep them all.

01:30:55 ◼   ► I don't think I have every one.

01:30:56 ◼   ► I have all the first couple ones, but I'm not running an iPhone museum in my office.

01:31:01 ◼   ► They're just in a cabinet, higgly piggly.

01:31:04 ◼   ► There's a couple that I really care about keeping.

01:31:07 ◼   ► I really love the original.

01:31:08 ◼   ► I love the iPhone 5.

01:31:12 ◼   ► But one thing I've done every single year, I do buy a new iPhone and every year I buy

01:31:17 ◼   ► it in black.

01:31:18 ◼   ► Because every year, without exception, I've been tempted once or twice.

01:31:24 ◼   ► There was the one year where there was sort of a very dark, near black, sort of a Boba Fett

01:31:31 ◼   ► colored, bluish green.

01:31:33 ◼   ► I forget, like maybe around the iPhone 12 or 13 or 11.

01:31:38 ◼   ► It's like a Pacific blue, I think you're thinking of.

01:31:40 ◼   ► There's a couple that have been tempting.

01:31:42 ◼   ► You know, and I'm not saying I'm always going to buy black, and I'm not saying I'm always

01:31:45 ◼   ► going to buy a new iPhone every year.

01:31:47 ◼   ► But as a rule of thumb, when I buy anything, if it's offered in black, I buy black.

01:31:51 ◼   ► And if it's not offered in black, I just buy the closest to black.

01:31:55 ◼   ► And it's not, A, I am boring and basic.

01:32:00 ◼   ► But B, that way, it is like Steve Jobs having 20 of the exact same black turtleneck.

01:32:07 ◼   ► Or Albert Einstein having a whole closet full of the same blue sweater.

01:32:13 ◼   ► Because then I don't have to think about it, right?

01:32:15 ◼   ► Because if I sit there and think about it, I'll get torn up between the colors.

01:32:22 ◼   ► But in recent years, I haven't even been tempted by the last few years.

01:32:26 ◼   ► They're so boring, in my opinion.

01:32:28 ◼   ► And I know every single Apple-related podcast says this every year.

01:32:32 ◼   ► Why does Apple think Pro means boring colors?

01:32:35 ◼   ► And they make these other devices, including iPhones now, in fun colors.

01:32:40 ◼   ► Yes.

01:32:40 ◼   ► And then the Pro ones, which cost more, come in white and then other shades of near black or black.

01:32:50 ◼   ► And this year, the rumor is they're going to make, like, a really vibrant orange one.

01:32:55 ◼   ► My wife and son, I bet, are both going to go gaga over it.

01:32:59 ◼   ► Because they don't just buy black everything.

01:33:01 ◼   ► They do like getting interesting colors of things.

01:33:04 ◼   ► And want the Pro phone for the cameras, but don't want boring colors.

01:33:10 ◼   ► I think this thing is going to be a hit.

01:33:12 ◼   ► And I really hope it is.

01:33:13 ◼   ► And if it's not, I think...

01:33:16 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:33:16 ◼   ► Colors are doomed.

01:33:18 ◼   ► It's like the iPhone mini from the 12 and 13 era, right?

01:33:21 ◼   ► I wish that they'd been a hit.

01:33:24 ◼   ► I really do.

01:33:24 ◼   ► They obviously weren't.

01:33:26 ◼   ► And it's like...

01:33:29 ◼   ► And I know that...

01:33:30 ◼   ► I know.

01:33:30 ◼   ► I'm going to...

01:33:31 ◼   ► I welcome your emails.

01:33:32 ◼   ► I would love to hear from you if you're still using your iPhone 13 or 12 mini.

01:33:36 ◼   ► I know people, personally, who are because they don't want to get a bigger phone.

01:33:41 ◼   ► But don't be angry at Apple.

01:33:44 ◼   ► Be angry at the people who didn't buy them.

01:33:46 ◼   ► Because they clearly were not a hit product.

01:33:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:33:49 ◼   ► I kind of feel like this orange iPhone Pro, though, is going to be a hit.

01:33:52 ◼   ► I do.

01:33:53 ◼   ► I'm so excited.

01:33:54 ◼   ► I love the color orange.

01:33:55 ◼   ► It's my favorite color.

01:33:56 ◼   ► I would get orange in everything if I could.

01:33:59 ◼   ► And when I saw...

01:34:00 ◼   ► I mean, I would ask the Apple for that for years.

01:34:04 ◼   ► I remember when before the Apple Watch Ultra was announced upstairs in the theater, when

01:34:09 ◼   ► one of the PR people on the watch team was like, what are you hoping to see today?

01:34:12 ◼   ► And I was like, there's a rumor that you're going to have a Pro watch today.

01:34:15 ◼   ► I would love to have some pops of orange on there.

01:34:17 ◼   ► And that was the color of the action button.

01:34:19 ◼   ► I was like, this is fantastic.

01:34:21 ◼   ► And last year, I said to...

01:34:23 ◼   ► Who was it?

01:34:24 ◼   ► I said to Jaws.

01:34:25 ◼   ► I was like, same thing.

01:34:26 ◼   ► Why does Pro on the iPhone mean no colors?

01:34:30 ◼   ► And all he said was, you know what?

01:34:31 ◼   ► We hear you.

01:34:32 ◼   ► So to me, I was like, okay, next...

01:34:35 ◼   ► It's like without saying it, just look out for next year, right?

01:34:38 ◼   ► And so you're going to get the black.

01:34:41 ◼   ► You're going to get the white.

01:34:41 ◼   ► You're going to get what looks to me like a nice dark blue, right?

01:34:44 ◼   ► If you don't want black or white.

01:34:45 ◼   ► But then you'll have something a little different for those people who want something a little

01:34:50 ◼   ► more colorful.

01:34:51 ◼   ► So the way I buy my phones is regardless of what the color is, I like to get the color

01:34:58 ◼   ► that's different that year.

01:35:00 ◼   ► It makes it easy for me to remember just by looking at it.

01:35:03 ◼   ► Oh, that's an iPhone 12 because that's Sierra blue, right?

01:35:05 ◼   ► Or whatever it might be.

01:35:06 ◼   ► So I'll always go for just the new and different option of that year, at least on the pro phone.

01:35:14 ◼   ► But I'm never really excited about it.

01:35:17 ◼   ► And I never really get people's excitement about color until I saw, oh, now there's a color

01:35:23 ◼   ► I really want.

01:35:24 ◼   ► Now I get it.

01:35:25 ◼   ► Now I see why.

01:35:26 ◼   ► Or now I see why women, for example, like how come we never get...

01:35:30 ◼   ► colors that are traditionally something that is aimed towards a female, like a nice pink

01:35:35 ◼   ► or purple.

01:35:35 ◼   ► How come it's always a utilitarian dark steel color?

01:35:38 ◼   ► I get it.

01:35:39 ◼   ► Rose gold is probably the closest they came to...

01:35:42 ◼   ► Yes.

01:35:42 ◼   ► I'd say it is sort of a traditionally feminine color.

01:35:46 ◼   ► I know they've made pink, truly pink, like bubblegum pink, regular iPhones.

01:35:52 ◼   ► Regular phones, yes.

01:35:52 ◼   ► And that's bubblegum pink.

01:35:54 ◼   ► It doesn't say pro to me, right?

01:35:56 ◼   ► It's not about gender, right?

01:35:57 ◼   ► In the same way that there's blue and blue in our culture is traditionally the boys color.

01:36:04 ◼   ► There's shades of blue that don't say pro, but then there's shades of blue that do.

01:36:09 ◼   ► And there's some of those shades are a lot more fun and have a lot more pop than, oh, unless

01:36:15 ◼   ► you hold it just right, it kind of looks gray.

01:36:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:18 ◼   ► Right?

01:36:19 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:36:20 ◼   ► Even the MacBook, the sky blue, right?

01:36:24 ◼   ► Like, when they showed it to us in the briefing, it was very obviously sky blue.

01:36:29 ◼   ► And then when I got it at home, I was like, did they send me?

01:36:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:32 ◼   ► Like, I thought it was the silver one.

01:36:34 ◼   ► I was like, this is not...

01:36:35 ◼   ► And then I put it next to a silver one.

01:36:36 ◼   ► I was like, oh, okay.

01:36:37 ◼   ► You have to put it next to a silver one to really see it.

01:36:41 ◼   ► And then it's like your eyes do the white balancing.

01:36:44 ◼   ► They really do.

01:36:45 ◼   ► I mean, human eyes, right?

01:36:46 ◼   ► This is why somebody who buys the wrong light bulbs, right?

01:36:52 ◼   ► And it drives me crazy.

01:36:53 ◼   ► Somebody who doesn't even look at the color temperature of the light bulbs they purchase

01:36:58 ◼   ► and they buy these terrible surgical room blue-white light.

01:37:05 ◼   ► You don't want these in your house.

01:37:07 ◼   ► But if you sit in a room long enough, your eyes will get used to it, right?

01:37:11 ◼   ► Yes.

01:37:11 ◼   ► And it's like that sky blue MacBook Air looks silver until you put it next to silver, right?

01:37:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:37:19 ◼   ► If you want people to know that you have the sky blue MacBook Air, you have to buy both models

01:37:23 ◼   ► and then have the other one off to the side so people can see that you have the blue one.

01:37:27 ◼   ► That's how ridiculous it is.

01:37:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:37:29 ◼   ► It's like the Dallas Cowboys pants wouldn't look blue or like slightly blue, except for the

01:37:35 ◼   ► fact that their helmets are silver, right?

01:37:37 ◼   ► But if their helmets match the pants, they would just look like they were silver.

01:37:40 ◼   ► That's right.

01:37:41 ◼   ► That's right.

01:37:41 ◼   ► You need color.

01:37:42 ◼   ► So I think that, and I know it's the most superficial thing possible, but I think it's going to

01:37:48 ◼   ► be a big hit this year.

01:37:50 ◼   ► I agree.

01:37:50 ◼   ► Because, and the one thing, even though it leaked a while ago that there would be an

01:37:57 ◼   ► orange pro iPhone 17 and there's leaked images and stuff like that.

01:38:02 ◼   ► The one thing that never really comes out of those leaked images is what the colors really

01:38:07 ◼   ► look like.

01:38:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:38:08 ◼   ► Because the exact tone.

01:38:10 ◼   ► And it's not just, oh, Apple's product photography is better.

01:38:13 ◼   ► I'm saying like me and you right out of the keynote when we're in the hands-on area and

01:38:18 ◼   ► get to look at them in natural light.

01:38:19 ◼   ► We're like, ooh, that's neat.

01:38:21 ◼   ► And just based on the Apple Watch Ultra, Apple does a really good anodized arch.

01:38:28 ◼   ► Like it's a really good.

01:38:29 ◼   ► So I think that's going to be a big hit.

01:38:31 ◼   ► The other big thing, obviously, is the much leaked, talked about iPhone Air.

01:38:38 ◼   ► Do you think they're, A, do you think they're going to call it the Air?

01:38:41 ◼   ► And B, what are your thoughts?

01:38:44 ◼   ► Because I think it's exactly what you're talking about with the foldables, where I think it's

01:38:49 ◼   ► going to be priced in between the regular and the pro.

01:38:53 ◼   ► And if anything, if it's not exactly in between, closer to the pro, because it's Apple.

01:38:59 ◼   ► But it's going to have specs like the regular one, I suspect.

01:39:02 ◼   ► It's only going to have two cameras and the battery life is going to be less because it's

01:39:08 ◼   ► thinner, right?

01:39:09 ◼   ► Do you think they're going to call it Air?

01:39:10 ◼   ► And what are your thoughts now that we're like a week and a half out from it?

01:39:14 ◼   ► My expectation for this phone is a couple of things.

01:39:17 ◼   ► So I think it's going to just take the place of the plus, including the price.

01:39:21 ◼   ► But there are rumors of price increases due to the tariff situation.

01:39:28 ◼   ► So if we see price increases, I don't think that it's going to increase in price because

01:39:32 ◼   ► it's thin, but it's what the plus would have increased to anyway, if the plus stayed around.

01:39:37 ◼   ► And I do think it's going to be, so I don't think it's going to have the same specs as the

01:39:43 ◼   ► regular, where are we at?

01:39:45 ◼   ► 17, 17.

01:39:46 ◼   ► I think it's going to have a pro chip with one less GPU core active.

01:39:54 ◼   ► So it's in between as it pertains to GPU power of the 17 and the 17 pro.

01:39:59 ◼   ► I don't know if it's, I bet, I'm going to bet the other way that it doesn't have the pro

01:40:04 ◼   ► chip because I'm not quite sure what pro features it would need.

01:40:08 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to do the high, the high speed Thunderbolt IO out of the USB port.

01:40:16 ◼   ► What, what exactly would it need?

01:40:17 ◼   ► The reason I thought that was not to jump ahead, but the rumor of how next year we're not going

01:40:24 ◼   ► to get an 18, we're going to get the 18 air pro and fold.

01:40:29 ◼   ► And then the regular 18 and 18 E will be the following spring.

01:40:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:40:34 ◼   ► So it just leads me to think that the pro, the higher end models come in September and

01:40:40 ◼   ► then the lower end models would come in the spring.

01:40:42 ◼   ► And the chip is one of the main differentiators there, which is kind of leads me there.

01:40:47 ◼   ► But I, here's what I think, why I think otherwise though, I think if you think the chip is a thing

01:40:53 ◼   ► to care about, you're not buying the thin one anyway.

01:40:55 ◼   ► That is true.

01:40:56 ◼   ► That is true.

01:40:57 ◼   ► Which I do think it's going to be like that flip.

01:40:59 ◼   ► I think this is going to be the cool thing to buy.

01:41:03 ◼   ► This is going to be the, the accessory, the cool, different looking iPhone.

01:41:07 ◼   ► And what's super interesting to me is that it seems like Samsung's edge, which came out

01:41:12 ◼   ► a couple of months ago, just came and went.

01:41:14 ◼   ► Yep.

01:41:15 ◼   ► Like it came and it went.

01:41:17 ◼   ► I have not seen them anywhere.

01:41:18 ◼   ► It is an impressive thing to hold.

01:41:20 ◼   ► I think it's 5.8 millimeters and the iPhone air is going to be 5.5.

01:41:25 ◼   ► So three tenths of a millimeter, but it seemed like it just came and went.

01:41:30 ◼   ► And Apple's going to be able to say, Hey, we have the thinnest phone.

01:41:32 ◼   ► Actually, I think Motorola put out a 5.2 millimeter phone a few years ago.

01:41:39 ◼   ► The one that had, you would slap the attachments on the back magnetically.

01:41:43 ◼   ► I forget the name of that phone.

01:41:45 ◼   ► But I do think this is going to be wildly popular just due to the fact that it's a different

01:41:50 ◼   ► form factor.

01:41:51 ◼   ► And what's something you alluded to earlier about people caring about color.

01:41:55 ◼   ► I do a lot of videos right as like right after the keynote.

01:42:00 ◼   ► Like I try to sit in the cheap seats so that as soon as it ends, I can just get up and run

01:42:04 ◼   ► to the tables.

01:42:04 ◼   ► Right.

01:42:05 ◼   ► And start making some quick vertical TikTok or Instagram videos.

01:42:08 ◼   ► And I can tell you right now, I can give you a spec rundown.

01:42:12 ◼   ► I can tell you about all the new things about the camera or whatever it might be.

01:42:15 ◼   ► The video that pops to like a million views almost instantly is here's the four colors of

01:42:20 ◼   ► the new iPhone.

01:42:21 ◼   ► Just showing the colors.

01:42:23 ◼   ► I'm not even saying anything about the phone other than the colors.

01:42:26 ◼   ► And those will blow up.

01:42:27 ◼   ► So I think people really do get pent up for, I want something to look new and I want something

01:42:35 ◼   ► to look unique in my hands when I'm out and about.

01:42:38 ◼   ► And so the Air, I think it's going to be very impressive and people are going to love it.

01:42:42 ◼   ► Just for me, it's something I wish I would want to carry around, but I know I'm, I mean,

01:42:49 ◼   ► I don't want a phone with one camera.

01:42:50 ◼   ► I don't want a phone that with bad battery life.

01:42:53 ◼   ► And you know what I mean?

01:42:55 ◼   ► Like the new thing isn't for me, which is a very rare thing for me to say.

01:43:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:43:00 ◼   ► I really was impressed with the 16E, which only has one camera.

01:43:09 ◼   ► I just really, I just loved how it felt.

01:43:12 ◼   ► And I think, as I recall, the theme of my review was basically, I think, or at least it was a

01:43:18 ◼   ► point I tried to make in it, that there's an alternate universe where the iPhone never went

01:43:24 ◼   ► high-end and pro, right?

01:43:26 ◼   ► And that the 16E feels like, in some other way, the derivative of the original iPhone and

01:43:36 ◼   ► the 3G and the 3GS.

01:43:37 ◼   ► And I guess, you know, those first three, the original and the 3G and the 3GS.

01:43:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:43:44 ◼   ► Because it was with the iPhone 4 with the glass back and the steel sides where it kind

01:43:50 ◼   ► of went more premium, just not even talking about what it does, just the way it looks and

01:43:56 ◼   ► feels.

01:43:57 ◼   ► And the 16E is so plain.

01:44:01 ◼   ► It's got this matte aluminum finish, and it's got a couple colors and just one camera, but

01:44:06 ◼   ► the camera hardly sticks out.

01:44:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:44:08 ◼   ► It sticks out so little that if you buy a case, the case doesn't have any kind of lip around

01:44:15 ◼   ► the camera because it doesn't need one for the case to be protective of the camera if you

01:44:21 ◼   ► put it flat down.

01:44:22 ◼   ► Right.

01:44:23 ◼   ► Which is amazing, right?

01:44:24 ◼   ► So most people use a case.

01:44:26 ◼   ► And so if you buy the 16E, you can lay your phone flat on a table like we did when we were

01:44:33 ◼   ► young.

01:44:34 ◼   ► And it doesn't wobble, which is really cool.

01:44:37 ◼   ► And it is, for one camera lens, really useful, right?

01:44:42 ◼   ► Oh, for sure.

01:44:43 ◼   ► I'm not going to buy it.

01:44:44 ◼   ► I take way too many photos with the 0.5 and the telephotos, but especially the 0.5, where

01:44:53 ◼   ► I really want to be able to do that.

01:44:56 ◼   ► But boy, it's tempting and it's close.

01:44:59 ◼   ► And most importantly, I really do like that the 1X lens on the pro cameras is optically

01:45:07 ◼   ► superior to everything else.

01:45:08 ◼   ► And so, you know, I'm only going to have this phone for a year.

01:45:11 ◼   ► I'm going to get the one with the best camera probably.

01:45:14 ◼   ► But boy, it's tempting.

01:45:16 ◼   ► And I can see it.

01:45:17 ◼   ► I think for most-

01:45:18 ◼   ► You're saying the Air is tempting?

01:45:20 ◼   ► No, but the 16E even was somewhat tempting.

01:45:23 ◼   ► And I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to most of my family members, even if I know they

01:45:28 ◼   ► take a lot of photos.

01:45:29 ◼   ► And I think if I looked through their entire photo library, I would see, like my wife,

01:45:33 ◼   ► for example, every photo she takes is 1X, every photo.

01:45:37 ◼   ► It's because she doesn't think like that.

01:45:38 ◼   ► She takes photos, but she takes out her iPhone, points it, frames it, hits the button.

01:45:42 ◼   ► And when you do it-

01:45:44 ◼   ► Walks to where she needs to be.

01:45:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:45:45 ◼   ► And when you do that, you get a 1X photo.

01:45:47 ◼   ► Most people are fine with that.

01:45:49 ◼   ► And I think it's going to take really good 1X photos, but I don't always want a 1X photo

01:45:55 ◼   ► or 2X with the optical sensor crop.

01:45:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:45:58 ◼   ► And I do think that the failure of the mini, which was the last time they really tried

01:46:03 ◼   ► something radically different with the form factor.

01:46:06 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of people who, if you gave them an iPhone mini and said, you have

01:46:12 ◼   ► to use this for a month.

01:46:13 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of people who, if you made them do it, they'd be like, you know,

01:46:17 ◼   ► I really like this.

01:46:19 ◼   ► I really like the size and how it fits in my pocket and I don't miss the bigger size and

01:46:24 ◼   ► I don't really type a lot.

01:46:25 ◼   ► So I don't care if the keyboard's smaller.

01:46:27 ◼   ► I really like it.

01:46:28 ◼   ► I just think though, people make the decision what to buy before they've actually used it.

01:46:33 ◼   ► And I think that people think they want a bigger phone than they really need in real life.

01:46:39 ◼   ► And the Air, if that's what they call it, I still want your answer on whether you think

01:46:43 ◼   ► they're going to call it the Air.

01:46:44 ◼   ► But it solves that because it's apparently going to have a screen size in between the

01:46:49 ◼   ► regular size and the max size.

01:46:52 ◼   ► So it won't be a small screen in terms of area.

01:46:54 ◼   ► And I think that's a deal breaker for people, right?

01:46:58 ◼   ► Like I think if this 17 Air were smaller in every way, not just thinner, but actually more

01:47:04 ◼   ► like a mini, I think that would doom it because I don't think people want a small area screen

01:47:10 ◼   ► size.

01:47:10 ◼   ► And I might be wrong.

01:47:12 ◼   ► It might be, it might just be that people really do want big screens on their phones

01:47:16 ◼   ► because they do so much of their daily computing life on their phone.

01:47:20 ◼   ► So they, of course they want a bigger phone.

01:47:22 ◼   ► I think the battery life will be fine, especially the 16E isn't super thin, but it gets better

01:47:29 ◼   ► battery life than the regular iPhone 16, right?

01:47:31 ◼   ► That's C1, that's C1 modem though.

01:47:33 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

01:47:34 ◼   ► And it's, that's the shit, man.

01:47:37 ◼   ► That is Apple like caring about a thing that other companies just don't care about, which

01:47:43 ◼   ► is somebody at Apple or some team at Apple has been looking at the power draw and Qualcomm's

01:47:51 ◼   ► talking about 5G and 87 different bands of 5G they support around the world.

01:47:56 ◼   ► And there's this team at Apple that looks at the power draw of that antenna in every single

01:48:02 ◼   ► phone out there.

01:48:03 ◼   ► And they are sick.

01:48:04 ◼   ► They're sick to their stomachs at the power that is going into this.

01:48:09 ◼   ► And they built a modem that doesn't support all those bands, doesn't support the super fast

01:48:14 ◼   ► ultra wide band that nobody really needs.

01:48:17 ◼   ► It's nice to have if you really do need it.

01:48:19 ◼   ► But for the most part, regular 5G is fine.

01:48:22 ◼   ► But I'll say not yet.

01:48:23 ◼   ► It doesn't have it yet.

01:48:25 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:48:25 ◼   ► It will.

01:48:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:48:26 ◼   ► And they know that too.

01:48:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:48:27 ◼   ► But what they do know is that it draws less power.

01:48:30 ◼   ► Right.

01:48:30 ◼   ► And that's the shit, man.

01:48:33 ◼   ► So I think that the battery life is going to be fine on this thing, no matter how thin

01:48:37 ◼   ► it is.

01:48:37 ◼   ► You know, it's obviously not going to get the battery life that the pro ones that are thicker

01:48:41 ◼   ► and certainly not what the Max has, which is thicker and taller and wider.

01:48:46 ◼   ► But that's not what people need.

01:48:48 ◼   ► Right.

01:48:48 ◼   ► It's interesting because I believe it was German who reported that the battery life will be

01:48:54 ◼   ► similar to an iPhone 12.

01:48:55 ◼   ► I don't.

01:48:56 ◼   ► I bet it's better.

01:48:58 ◼   ► I do.

01:48:58 ◼   ► But that also Apple will bring back the battery case for the Air in particular, which to me,

01:49:04 ◼   ► aren't you definitively?

01:49:06 ◼   ► If you're buying this because of the thinness, why are you going to put that battery case with

01:49:09 ◼   ► the bulbous back on it?

01:49:10 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:49:11 ◼   ► Like, well, if it's a yeah, if it's the battery case, I don't know that.

01:49:15 ◼   ► I think that's what it maybe it wasn't German.

01:49:17 ◼   ► Maybe that was Wayne Ma at the information or maybe both of them.

01:49:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:49:20 ◼   ► German has so many reports that maybe he's chimed in on it, too.

01:49:24 ◼   ► But I think it was Wayne Ma who said that my secret hope.

01:49:27 ◼   ► And I wrote this at the time is that Apple doesn't bring a battery pack, but they bring

01:49:32 ◼   ► back the magnetic battery thing.

01:49:35 ◼   ► Right.

01:49:35 ◼   ► The MagSafe battery.

01:49:37 ◼   ► Right.

01:49:37 ◼   ► Which I still have two of and I love.

01:49:42 ◼   ► And I'm telling you, do you have one?

01:49:44 ◼   ► I do.

01:49:44 ◼   ► I have two of them.

01:49:45 ◼   ► They're so much better than the third party battery packs from Anchor or whoever else makes

01:49:51 ◼   ► them because it snaps on better.

01:49:53 ◼   ► It doesn't come off in your pocket.

01:49:55 ◼   ► And they do have their cheaty internal super secret software APIs that show you things that

01:50:02 ◼   ► the other third parties can't do.

01:50:03 ◼   ► But it's also just really smart.

01:50:06 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't try to charge your phone too much past 70 percent because it knows that

01:50:12 ◼   ► a magnetic battery, it's better to let the phone get to 70 and then fall back down and

01:50:18 ◼   ► then charge it back to 70 than to push it to 90 because you'll get more, you'll get

01:50:22 ◼   ► more actual battery life out of that.

01:50:23 ◼   ► It's just such a great product.

01:50:25 ◼   ► And the only problem with it is it has a lightning port instead of USB-C.

01:50:29 ◼   ► So my secret hope is that report is slightly wrong and that they bring back that.

01:50:34 ◼   ► And then it'll work on any iPhone, not just this year's new ones, but any of them that

01:50:39 ◼   ► have MagSafe rather than make a battery case like the previous Apple battery cases that

01:50:45 ◼   ► will only fit one model of phone for one year because next year's 18 Air is going to

01:50:51 ◼   ► be like a millimeter thinner or whatever.

01:50:53 ◼   ► That's my hope.

01:50:55 ◼   ► And that would make me very happy.

01:50:56 ◼   ► Did you know that you can charge that battery case by plugging your iPhone into lightning?

01:51:03 ◼   ► Yes.

01:51:04 ◼   ► Your phone will charge the case.

01:51:05 ◼   ► No, plug your iPhone into USB-C.

01:51:08 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:51:09 ◼   ► Sorry.

01:51:09 ◼   ► Plug your phone into USB-C and it'll charge your lightning MagSafe battery.

01:51:14 ◼   ► Right.

01:51:15 ◼   ► So that if, right, so you can, if you have one of those Apple MagSafe battery packs in

01:51:20 ◼   ► a drawer and you've taken it out of your travel bag because you're like, ah, otherwise I could

01:51:25 ◼   ► live the lightning.

01:51:26 ◼   ► I could just have USB-C cables only.

01:51:29 ◼   ► That's all I need.

01:51:30 ◼   ► So I don't want to take this.

01:51:31 ◼   ► You can live the USB-C only life with the battery pack.

01:51:36 ◼   ► Plug your phone in at the bedside in the hotel to the USB-C, leave the battery pack on it and

01:51:42 ◼   ► the phone will charge the battery pack.

01:51:44 ◼   ► It'll charge.

01:51:44 ◼   ► It's such a great product.

01:51:45 ◼   ► It really, and it, I cannot emphasize how strongly the battery holds and doesn't rotate like a

01:51:52 ◼   ► clock around the middle like every other battery pack does.

01:51:56 ◼   ► It's such a great product.

01:51:57 ◼   ► I love the size and shape of it.

01:51:59 ◼   ► It actually sort of works better as like a AirSat pop socket for your finger.

01:52:04 ◼   ► That would be my hope.

01:52:06 ◼   ► And it leads me to another really interesting rumor, which probably is German.

01:52:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:52:11 ◼   ► Whoever.

01:52:13 ◼   ► But did you see this, that Apple's rumored to bring back bumper cases for the Air?

01:52:18 ◼   ► I did see that.

01:52:19 ◼   ► I did see that.

01:52:20 ◼   ► That is interesting because the thinness of it, I can't imagine like a super thin, flimsy

01:52:28 ◼   ► almost seems to be the word for this.

01:52:29 ◼   ► But I mean, it makes sense because you want to preserve the thinness of this thing and cases

01:52:34 ◼   ► are bulky.

01:52:35 ◼   ► That's why I never, I don't use cases on any of my phones because I like how they're

01:52:40 ◼   ► designed and how they feel.

01:52:41 ◼   ► I don't want to add any bulk to them.

01:52:43 ◼   ► So that, I think that's a smart way to protect it from dropping and, but still keeping it thin.

01:52:48 ◼   ► I haven't asked because it's one of the, I'm always so overwhelmed with questions, but, but

01:52:54 ◼   ► I've been meaning to ask, like if a briefing with jaws or somebody, whatever happened to

01:52:59 ◼   ► bumper cases.

01:53:00 ◼   ► And I hope this year that they announced them and therefore I don't have to, I still, I guess

01:53:05 ◼   ► guess it'll be a reminder to ask like, why did it take so long?

01:53:07 ◼   ► But for anybody who doesn't remember, I think they only sold them for one year with the iPhone

01:53:12 ◼   ► four.

01:53:13 ◼   ► Maybe they still sold them with the four S I don't know, but it was certainly they went

01:53:17 ◼   ► away with the iPhone five, but with the iPhone four, which would be 27, eight, 10, 2010.

01:53:25 ◼   ► Their only branded quote unquote cases were bumpers.

01:53:29 ◼   ► And so it was just around the rails of the iPhone and it had a completely open back.

01:53:34 ◼   ► It was just like a picture frame for the phone and you'd put it in place and it would cover

01:53:39 ◼   ► the rails.

01:53:40 ◼   ► And they ended up giving them to everybody because of the antenna gate pseudo scandal, because

01:53:46 ◼   ► the attenuation problem of having a finger that covered the antenna gap on the stainless

01:53:52 ◼   ► steel frame really was to do with the electromagnetic conductive skin bridging a gap that wasn't meant

01:54:00 ◼   ► to be bridged.

01:54:01 ◼   ► And so if you did anything to avoid putting the skin of your finger or hand across those

01:54:07 ◼   ► two pieces of the stainless steel antenna, it would alleviate, make the problem go away.

01:54:12 ◼   ► So they just gave everybody these $19 bumper cases.

01:54:16 ◼   ► If you have an iPhone four here, we'll just give you one.

01:54:18 ◼   ► And they download the app.

01:54:20 ◼   ► You have to download the iPhone four bumper app to redeem it.

01:54:24 ◼   ► They made an app just to send these to you.

01:54:26 ◼   ► But yeah, that was, they had a whole press conference.

01:54:28 ◼   ► That was the funniest thing.

01:54:29 ◼   ► They had a whole press briefing about it.

01:54:32 ◼   ► Yep.

01:54:32 ◼   ► That was like an emergency press briefing just for it.

01:54:36 ◼   ► Jobs came back from vacation in Hawaii to do it.

01:54:38 ◼   ► I have a small claim to fame in that press conference where it was in the Apple's town hall, which

01:54:44 ◼   ► only sat, I don't know, 75 people, maybe a hundred.

01:54:47 ◼   ► I think they rejiggered the seats at some point and added, it sucked because it was already tiny

01:54:53 ◼   ► and cramped and they wanted to put more people in.

01:54:55 ◼   ► So they made the seats even smaller, like movie theaters used to do before movie theaters came

01:55:01 ◼   ► to their senses and made like big fat Barker loungers.

01:55:04 ◼   ► Yep.

01:55:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:55:04 ◼   ► No, but they did quite.

01:55:06 ◼   ► It was so long ago.

01:55:07 ◼   ► They did questions and answers with the press.

01:55:10 ◼   ► And I raised my hand and I think it was Jobs who actually called on me and I wanted to know

01:55:17 ◼   ► if since they were giving away the cases, did the executives on stage themselves use a case

01:55:24 ◼   ► with their iPhone 4s?

01:55:25 ◼   ► And they all, it was Jobs, Big Bob Mansfeld, I think Phil Schiller and Tim Cook, I think were

01:55:33 ◼   ► the four, but I know Mansfeld and Jobs and I'm pretty sure Schiller were on stage and instead

01:55:39 ◼   ► of answering the question, they all laughed and they all reached in their pockets and took

01:55:43 ◼   ► out their iPhone 4s and they all had no case.

01:55:45 ◼   ► No cases.

01:55:46 ◼   ► No cases.

01:55:47 ◼   ► But if you're going to have a case, a bumper case is the way to go, right?

01:55:50 ◼   ► It's like the least case and you can feel and see the back.

01:55:53 ◼   ► You could see if you care about the color, right?

01:55:56 ◼   ► So hopefully it's not just for the air.

01:55:59 ◼   ► Why not make them for the Pro too, right?

01:56:01 ◼   ► If you've got this cool orange iPhone 17 Pro, don't you want to show off the actual orange?

01:56:07 ◼   ► Correct.

01:56:08 ◼   ► But did you see the rumor today of the other accessory?

01:56:10 ◼   ► No, I did not.

01:56:12 ◼   ► All right.

01:56:12 ◼   ► Majin Boo, who I think is hit or miss, but he has had some scoops in the past, is he showed

01:56:22 ◼   ► photos of an alleged iPhone 17 crossbody strap.

01:56:25 ◼   ► So it's like a magnetic strap that would almost hold your phone.

01:56:29 ◼   ► I'm assuming in a bumper or the case would have a, what was the?

01:56:34 ◼   ► Lanyard, right?

01:56:35 ◼   ► It's a lanyard.

01:56:36 ◼   ► Like you have at the bottom of the AirPod.

01:56:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:56:38 ◼   ► On the side of the AirPods Pro, have a lanyard hook so you could hook your phone in and just

01:56:42 ◼   ► wear it like a crossbody, almost like that one iPod shuffle that had the wear around your

01:56:47 ◼   ► neck.

01:56:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:56:48 ◼   ► And it's different colors that match the rumored colors of the phone.

01:56:52 ◼   ► So there's an orange one, a blue one, a purple one, dark blue.

01:56:56 ◼   ► Would you rock your phone that way?

01:56:58 ◼   ► Would you get the crossbody?

01:57:00 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:57:01 ◼   ► Put your black phone.

01:57:02 ◼   ► Are you going black phone again this year, by the way?

01:57:04 ◼   ► Well.

01:57:05 ◼   ► Come on.

01:57:06 ◼   ► Probably.

01:57:07 ◼   ► No.

01:57:08 ◼   ► Well, I don't, and I think, and I think I have a really good excuse, even if the orange

01:57:12 ◼   ► is a banger.

01:57:13 ◼   ► My wife has actually stopped a few years ago.

01:57:16 ◼   ► She's like, I don't need a new phone every year.

01:57:18 ◼   ► So she's due for a new phone.

01:57:20 ◼   ► And orange is her favorite color.

01:57:23 ◼   ► She actually didn't buy an orange iMac.

01:57:24 ◼   ► In 1999, we went into the store to buy her an iMac, and she was going to buy orange, going

01:57:33 ◼   ► to buy orange, going to buy orange.

01:57:34 ◼   ► And we got into the store.

01:57:35 ◼   ► It was a CompUSA, because there weren't Apple stores yet.

01:57:38 ◼   ► And she saw the purple, and was like, oh, I need the purple.

01:57:41 ◼   ► Oh, really?

01:57:41 ◼   ► But in, yeah.

01:57:42 ◼   ► And I think I just read somewhere that orange was, I think they called it tangerine.

01:57:48 ◼   ► And maybe because it was called tangerine, it wasn't a great orange in person.

01:57:53 ◼   ► I have to admit, I thought that the purple looked better than the orange.

01:57:58 ◼   ► But orange in general, as a general rule of thumb, is probably her favorite color.

01:58:02 ◼   ► So she's almost, unless there's something horribly wrong with the orange of the iPhone 17

01:58:07 ◼   ► Pro, she's going to buy it.

01:58:08 ◼   ► And it's as, and she's not a case person either.

01:58:12 ◼   ► And as you probably know, having different looking phones is very important.

01:58:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:58:17 ◼   ► You can have the same color.

01:58:18 ◼   ► You can have the same color.

01:58:19 ◼   ► Okay.

01:58:19 ◼   ► Listen, you asked me if I think it's going to be called the iPhone Air.

01:58:21 ◼   ► Yep.

01:58:23 ◼   ► I'm going to say like the original rumors like a year ago was like iPhone slim or it's

01:58:28 ◼   ► like, I don't know.

01:58:29 ◼   ► I feel like Apple is a company that they will reuse names appropriately, right?

01:58:34 ◼   ► Like whether it's the max term or the like air, we've seen air across products.

01:58:38 ◼   ► So I feel like there's no iPhone Air.

01:58:40 ◼   ► Now we have an iPad Air.

01:58:40 ◼   ► We have a MacBook Air.

01:58:41 ◼   ► iPhone Air makes sense to me.

01:58:43 ◼   ► So that, that would be my guess.

01:58:45 ◼   ► But I think if they name it iPhone Air and I'm correct, then you should at least get the

01:58:49 ◼   ► dark blue instead of the black.

01:58:51 ◼   ► That's just what I think.

01:58:52 ◼   ► That's just what I think.

01:58:55 ◼   ► I'm probably, I'm not going to take to bed because I think I'm going to, if I can't get

01:58:59 ◼   ► orange, I'm going to get black.

01:59:00 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:59:01 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:59:01 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:59:02 ◼   ► I think that the confusing thing with Air is that Air means almost anything to Apple anymore,

01:59:10 ◼   ► right?

01:59:10 ◼   ► It used to, the original MacBook Air was named the Air because it was so much thinner and

01:59:15 ◼   ► lighter.

01:59:15 ◼   ► Thin and light.

01:59:15 ◼   ► Then he could put it in a Manila inner office memo envelope and take it out on stage.

01:59:22 ◼   ► And then eventually the, the MacBook Airs weren't the thinnest, right?

01:59:27 ◼   ► They, for a year, a couple of years, they made the regular 12 inch MacBook that was thinner

01:59:31 ◼   ► and lighter and smaller.

01:59:32 ◼   ► The iPad Airs are not the smallest iPads.

01:59:37 ◼   ► They're heavier for sure than the M4 Pro.

01:59:40 ◼   ► It just sort of means mid, mid level, right?

01:59:43 ◼   ► It's like there's iPad with no adjective.

01:59:45 ◼   ► Then you upgrade to the Air and then you upgrade to the Pro.

01:59:48 ◼   ► It just means mid.

01:59:49 ◼   ► It's like iPad mid.

01:59:51 ◼   ► Whereas this is meant to be impressive, but Apple does like to reuse names, right?

01:59:56 ◼   ► So I, if I had to bet, I would bet it's the iPhone 17 Air.

02:00:01 ◼   ► Okay.