The Accidental Tech Podcast

16: John, We Don`t Play Games

 

  dollar Marco so how do you think of the good guideline because like what do you [TS]

  stop it is coming towards me my time [TS]

  one of the big problems with Mac development is that even though you have [TS]

  all this hardware to burn these days you know all this memory all the CPU cores [TS]

  have tons of resources to to to take advantage of the desktop but the API's [TS]

  and the widgets in the in the UI stuff on on the Mac is very very old and [TS]

  compared to iOS programming Mac programming is in many ways harder and I [TS]

  wonder if Apple has any desire to really dramatically improve that and take [TS]

  advantage of all the people who are iOS developers who are learning UI kit which [TS]

  is way way easier the napkin and to do to do a lot of very common things and to [TS]

  try to modernize the Mac OS 10 API's and to try to bring over more iOS developers [TS]

  and and making life easier more productive for existing Mac developers [TS]

  that's something they really haven't done much in the last few Mac OS 10 [TS]

  releases and I'd like to see that happen as as iOS developer who's kind of scared [TS]

  of Mac programming I'd love to see that happen so you thinking like a UI kit for [TS]

  ten I don't know if they could you know you like it is very specific for touch [TS]

  and I don't think they could directly bring it over I don't that would make [TS]

  sense but what they they they could definitely modernize a lot of a kid [TS]

  maybe make a whole new API probably wouldn't go that far but at least [TS]

  modernize it a lot and and you know bring a lot of the conveniences and and [TS]

  the modern choices from you I get into a packet's widgets and drag new widgets [TS]

  better which is all the labor-backed stuff that that iOS does that Mac OS [TS]

  still i think is like half done in all sorts of stuff like that that people [TS]

  like warren burger with more qualified to talk about but I know it's still a [TS]

  problem [TS]

  well didn't chuck and Larry and I contacted you chameleon they did and and [TS]

  then Warren did I don't have to say that [TS]

  that the Twitter you i think that there is there and I think there's even been [TS]

  one or two other ones similar to that and and solely because these frameworks [TS]

  exist [TS]

  obviously there's demand for this and but you know until Apple does their own [TS]

  thing with the official API's it's never gonna take off in in the same way but [TS]

  either from you guys know how modern they've made me know you've just been a [TS]

  few minutes income not modern it is but I mean by that is do they have like [TS]

  block support pretty prevalent Lee throughout any about pick John do you [TS]

  happen to know this cuz I have not done the stuff they did a foundation [TS]

  everybody gets like fast enumeration right the block support for the low [TS]

  level stuff where you can like it over and over in a trade some block I'm kinda [TS]

  like what it whenever they do that stuff it benefits both platforms so there is [TS]

  some shearing amount plus all like the you know the Objective C whatever [TS]

  version they're up to with the properties and all that like that's all [TS]

  shared so that bottom layer both OS's does get better over the years [TS]

  think existing sore points like the whole and SL vs and its view of the [TS]

  stupid table views and that's just like a legacy hang around when I see stuff [TS]

  like that I think well it makes me think about the market as a platform overall [TS]

  did they what's their motivation to make it better like someone saying I would [TS]

  develop for the Mac accept these apts are slightly more crafty than they are [TS]

  on the phone or they're not close enough or whatever like is that motivate [TS]

  members would really the motivating them it is that the market share is small [TS]

  compared to the phone and like they're not they you know they don't feel like [TS]

  they have an idea for a great nap or is it the Mac apps are necessarily much [TS]

  more complicated most of your application is not in the UI framework [TS]

  partly sunny like Photoshop which is ostensibly Akoko app now they don't care [TS]

  how holding Creevey Coco AP I don't like that Abbas custom from top to bottom and [TS]

  assist little thin layer to throw out some stuff on the screen so I wonder [TS]

  given its market share its growth rate and [TS]

  the and what the blockbuster apps on the Mac are actually like what would be [TS]

  returned on Apple's investment firm for modernizing almost any PII in ways that [TS]

  aren't just like we did this modernization and helps both iOS and Mac [TS]

  OS 10 well I think part of it is if you make it easier you know not only does it [TS]

  help developers it also helps Apple [TS]

  helps their developers and also you know it it gives more more chance they're [TS]

  being good after the platform [TS]

  you know i mean you could use a lot of the same arguments against improving [TS]

  Xcode or improving LOV M [TS]

  or improving the final multilanguage like all that you know the the can be a [TS]

  little short sin taxes we got last year for a lot of the boxing classes to fight [TS]

  that there's there's a lot of stuff like that that Apple's adding not because [TS]

  they really have to not because it's going to help them competitively [TS]

  directly but just because it's nice to do for developers and then they benefit [TS]

  we benefit and then maybe there's like this trickle-down effect of nice perhaps [TS]

  eventually come out for their platforms [TS]

  well there's competitive pressure from you know from the from Google with icon [TS]

  on the mobile platform like their dev tools there I D their language and so [TS]

  Apple has to keep up with at least have parity with that and like their [TS]

  languages memory mansion and happens isn't so that they can only feel that [TS]

  pressure feel like and that is a much more competitive landscape forces and [TS]

  the macrocycle do you write windows up figure out something for the umpteen [TS]

  crappy API's available for Windows a fight between should use and how many [TS]

  people you gonna sell to and how you gonna sell out through the window start [TS]

  like the desktop is yesterday's news anyway according to you know the the [TS]

  prevailing wisdom of the time and like it does not a growth market matter where [TS]

  you are and I just doesn't feel the pressure on the desktop they do on [TS]

  mobile so they are highly motivated to make their mobile experience better for [TS]

  developers to make sure they keep those developers they're somewhat motivated to [TS]

  make things better on the desktop I must be like if if they really were [TS]

  separately imagine they were separate ID's and lie completely separate there [TS]

  was no shared [TS]

  foundation are you know are plain old foundation code between them and there [TS]

  was no they use a different idea so improving sex condemn benefit what would [TS]

  the Mac toolchain look like at this point if they didn't also get the [TS]

  benefit of all while doing all this stuff and it benefits both of them I [TS]

  don't know I mean like everything about this I think two applications like [TS]

  iPhoto on the Mac that just not gonna kind of attention that it would have [TS]

  gotten it if I wasn't around you know I was true of almost every Apple Mac [TS]

  application yeah so far they seem to keep up with their maybe that's also [TS]

  because it's benefiting I was hard to start to tease them part because so much [TS]

  of that work is does benefit both you know that's to their credit right there [TS]

  was a good decision to you know you the same car as both of them but it's hard [TS]

  to figure out how much does Apple care about putting things in the back roads [TS]

  how much is the Mac just getting the spillover of their frenzied improvement [TS]

  iOS and also it also does it does feel like you know we've talked about before [TS]

  how in many ways Apple still behaves like a much smaller company that it [TS]

  really is an often to his detriment and one of the examples of that is that they [TS]

  do have this kind of tunnel vision wear whatever whatever is the cool thing that [TS]

  they're really focusing on everything else just gets ignored and neglected for [TS]

  years until somebody comes around and gives it what's often a half assed [TS]

  update sorry go ahead john Kasay if they have that is changed if that like that [TS]

  television has changed we like won't see the results until you know like it's not [TS]

  type of thing you know when big reorganization along different lines [TS]

  with a change to the digital functional lines or something instead of a long [TS]

  product lines that whatever they wanted the big reorg and you know how to live [TS]

  in that could have been the beginning of a change to the tunnel vision but we [TS]

  won't know until I mean I guess the total these WWC and possibly later see [TS]

  the fruits of that reorganization can turn this thing I'm done but it's better [TS]

  to talk about a couple shows about the bandwidth of the organization does Apple [TS]

  have the capacity to go full steam on multiple fronts have the capacity to [TS]

  like have a team every single year making iPhoto [TS]

  have a team every single year high movie better the team that was doing I DVD [TS]

  find you can repurpose old school but any existing active application is there [TS]

  a dedicated team was only job is to make his application better and better year [TS]

  after year intel that application is irrelevant and often from the outside it [TS]

  seems like that's not the case this kind of this swing group of people were like [TS]

  you know once the Finder is good enough everybody except one guy and like his [TS]

  apprentice [TS]

  hold off of that and they get put on to whatever like you know all hands on deck [TS]

  for working on the next version of iOS or something is not that that's what it [TS]

  seems like from the outside because if your application isn't you know Steve [TS]

  Jobs darling in the past and I don't know what the current criteria is maybe [TS]

  like really important to the company like it's very clear that I S seven is [TS]

  getting the attention you know right now and I was 10 maybe a little bit but like [TS]

  as you go down the chain of applications that you may be using day after day you [TS]

  think boy this has not been up to I work hard I work like I i dont know it's it's [TS]

  so hard to tell me how it really goes on there but it sure seems like it doesn't [TS]

  it whereas when you look at a company like Google it seems like every time [TS]

  they Google i/o psych [TS]

  drop tons of their products that's one way to do it right just just get rid of [TS]

  your products that you weren't bringing forward you know everything is gone [TS]

  except per Google+ and six other things when they say well all those things that [TS]

  we did keep here's awesome new versions of every single one of those yeah what's [TS]

  is I work on the Mac older than the Mac Pro I think so it's a known 909 came out [TS]

  in January 6 2009 so that's like a year and a half older than the current [TS]

  generation of your fake new Mac Pro is that does not count at all as they can [TS]

  also on the lines of going back a second on the lines of avi updates [TS]

  modernizations I was asking earlier today I made a little early today to a [TS]

  podcast named springboard put a link in the show notes springboard showed up [TS]

  calm and an episode 10 they were talking about [TS]

  how the guest was Caleb Davenport and they were talking about how you know [TS]

  with ARC we're training people not to worry about memory management then like [TS]

  we still like all down into these carbon API's to do certain things on iOS even [TS]

  things like address book or keychain things that still have no Coco rappers [TS]

  that you still have to go down to the carbon level API where they are you know [TS]

  the Rossi API and do do you know core foundation memory management stuff like [TS]

  that and you know all these old style things and it really messes with are [TS]

  gonna make some very confusing and if we if we're teaching people you don't think [TS]

  about me anymore but then they have to use when his AP eisner leaking streams [TS]

  all over the place [TS]

  not realizing that you know there's always exceptions were my memory [TS]

  management except in this case you know and and so one thing I would love to see [TS]

  just some stupid wrappers around us all those ancient capi is that still don't [TS]

  have nice Objective C wrapper classes around them even an iOS and if I S seven [TS]

  brought that that would you know it's not going to say it's not going to make [TS]

  any headlines is not at the moment fire but it's going to make its gonna make a [TS]

  a minor inconvenience for so many developers so often I couldn't agree [TS]

  more I have a very very very simple and basic app in the App Store in in what it [TS]

  allows you to do is to send cans text messages quickly and when I started [TS]

  doing the address book [TS]

  integration it was a total pain in the butt for exactly that reason I mean it's [TS]

  nothing I can't handle I cut my teeth in C++ as I think you did Marco C and C++ [TS]

  and John I know you're so damn old thank you cut it on like assembly but anyway [TS]

  the point being all kidding aside that that the address book API is terrible [TS]

  because it's all street scene it's so frustrating this was pre art that I did [TS]

  all this and it was so frustrating having to drop down into that even with [TS]

  retain release considerably more tedious net framework in order to get what seems [TS]

  to be a very simple job done so I hadn't thought about that that's a very good [TS]

  point and certainly would make me happy to see some of that get improved [TS]

  although I think I like you said market [TS]

  I might be the only ones but we're not because it's like you know it's like the [TS]

  whole the 8820 feature myth like yet only X percentage of the API's don't [TS]

  have nice coca wrappers around them but almost every developer eventually has to [TS]

  use one of them you know I can look at least and and there's there's a there's [TS]

  so many other than that I get stupid would take them not very long not that [TS]

  much effort not any kind of significant long-term maintenance costs just to make [TS]

  really basic wrappers around these things just that we never have to think [TS]

  about that again that he just do the thing where you say you want it really [TS]

  is a program that's just how did the same up simple matter of programming [TS]

  courses because he hates these guys and again the impression I get from the [TS]

  outside is that the reason this is the way it is it's because there's like some [TS]

  teams responsible for the address book API and the person in charge of a team [TS]

  thinks they're capi is just fine and they don't have people on the team who [TS]

  were you know either most skilled enough experience offer motivated enough to do [TS]

  Objective C rappers because they've cultivated a team of people who are [TS]

  experts see programmers and like that that's the ultimate sort of the lateral [TS]

  move project I what do we get one at the end of this well we get no new [TS]

  functionality we actually make it a little bit slower a bit easier to use [TS]

  right and you like white why we do this why you dedicating a one-person for like [TS]

  this release to make this rapper because we'll simply wants it now just go do [TS]

  something else that's newer you're needed on this project or whatever is [TS]

  there so much emotion in the address book [TS]

  AP I don't you get the impression of like this team to manage these apts like [TS]

  this is the team in charge of the whatever API and there is also a CRC [TS]

  applesauce or whatever programmers and they made it the way they made it I [TS]

  think it's perfectly fine and fix the bugs and they can't be convinced that [TS]

  what they need to do is make a rapper or you know re-employment their API and [TS]

  some different language or they'll have a good reasons for being only in C and i [TS]

  like it so I don't even use it was good that I can understand it being a source [TS]

  of frustration but it seems to me like an organizational failure more than a [TS]

  technical failure or [TS]

  a failure of leadership or whatever just like something about the organization [TS]

  does not allow for this to happen [TS]

  well in I thought perhaps I made this up but I thought a lot of these API's [TS]

  address but being a great example were very thin layers on top of sequel [TS]

  lighter SQLite order for pronouncing it as Jeff databases and maybe I made that [TS]

  up but I thought that that like address book as the example comes to mind but [TS]

  that's where I'd seen a couple hours he's all these permissions and sandbox [TS]

  and things around it to prevent path for uploading the entire address book to the [TS]

  point of driving at is some of these old and arcane API's I think we're just very [TS]

  light wrappers around sequel light and so nobody thought to bother with them or [TS]

  to your point john they just didn't have the desire is that if you choose that as [TS]

  the future of the good back end or whatever I don't think it's a technical [TS]

  thing I think it comes down to is if you had if you have a bunch of C programmers [TS]

  and you're tasked with creating a new API it's going to be a capi right now [TS]

  they can't learn Objective C or whatever but like you know you go to develop them [TS]

  with the programmers you have I don't know if you can't just you can't just [TS]

  transform them into an experience like you have the guys who made it happen [TS]

  the guys who made you like it like your experience battle-hardened we can make a [TS]

  new API and Objective C we know how to do that the right way because we've made [TS]

  crappy API's over and over again so now we're now where we have experienced and [TS]

  we know ok you're making an objective capi hears of it should look like here [TS]

  is the do's and don'ts here is to avoid making I API the people can accidentally [TS]

  use badly all the people who learned that Ennis I was a bad idea over years [TS]

  of experience they know when they made you I could that'd make the same mistake [TS]

  the second time well if you take the address book team a team of people who [TS]

  maybe have never written in Objective C ABI you tell them you know make a rapper [TS]

  maybe they'll make one tho will be a great objective CPA who looked like my [TS]

  first Objective C wrapper API and I think actually making a rapid probably [TS]

  harder than just writing a straight up like if you had started from scratch [TS]

  right but they've got to see if it works it's called from everywhere [TS]

  they have to maintain compatibility with it and you're asking that had another [TS]

  abstraction on top of that while maintaining back compatible with people [TS]

  who go to the low-level API it's actually kind of annoying and I can [TS]

  imagine them not being motivated to do that unless there's some compelling [TS]

  business reason and will always have some excuse of why there's not a [TS]

  compelling business reason well there is i mean first of all there is to know as [TS]

  for the same reason why Mac development should be as easy as possible we're also [TS]

  pleased with a reason you know I was benefits from quality of ass being good [TS]

  if if there's a whole bunch of people out there who who are mismanaging memory [TS]

  from these little sleepy eyes because they don't know how to do it I didn't [TS]

  know that we have to do it then there's a bunch of apps taking up more memory [TS]

  than they should and that's bad for the entire I was running experience things [TS]

  like teaching the easy thing to do is just be insecure and writer credential [TS]

  into a file somewhere they want you to use key chain for security reasons but [TS]

  using teaching is hard so you know by by not making the security thing easy after [TS]

  less secure so there is there's a there's a lot of little reason that all [TS]

  add up like abstract really we try to take the to mention they want to see [TS]

  business reason I think what actually happens is the CPI just sits there gets [TS]

  older and older and more and more disgusting over the years and then [TS]

  eventually it's like look people can make people uses just likes to old [TS]

  London that's what happened with QuickTime right so quick time was a C [TS]

  API which was amazing the time it was written but it was like I figure the [TS]

  first version of Quicktime came out like 1999 pretty own [TS]

  engineer the movies for the size of like one inch by one inch squares and in the [TS]

  senate pack API kodak is just terrible but there was a capi right and we carry [TS]

  that same CBA API phone info identification is built on involved but [TS]

  eventually it just like it's untenable to make people right to that so they do [TS]

  cutie ship which is subject of sea like wrap around the Rosie API and that's [TS]

  what motivated the rappers like no one wants to use the QuickTime API and see [TS]

  unless you've been using it that way since 1992 no one wants to learn that [TS]

  his eyes it's crazy pants so they like they do the rapper and then they say [TS]

  like what comes around to the rapper you know i dont C API is deprecated [TS]

  foundation for everything please can you know it's it's too disgusting and maybe [TS]

  address book and kitchen are quite at that point yet but when they reached [TS]

  that point like that'll be made out like the canary in the coal mine first they [TS]

  give you the ejector seat travel with massively more limited functionality [TS]

  that just lets you easily played a movie in your local application right I just [TS]

  want to put in a movie you are sort of played a movie I don't wanna see that [TS]

  crazy API it right and everyone was like wait what about all the empty functions [TS]

  you can do this rate all that thats Tracy API will still be there you can [TS]

  use it then transferred two years since I get it has gone away [TS]

  here's the new thing written from the ground up to be different although I [TS]

  think if you foundation is still see her performance reasons maybe they can make [TS]

  a better wrap around that characterization every foundation [TS]

  Objective C Apr see what I actually don't know never used it either way I [TS]

  mean what what needs to get worse about the address book API before we get to [TS]

  that point just it just needs to look dated like I don't know now I can [TS]

  imagine it might have dealt with handles which were big thing back in the classic [TS]

  maleate and I don't know if that's the case again failing me with this spring [TS]

  underscore the real-time feedback about whether maybe I used handles were lost [TS]

  with various stuff stuff like that that you know hypothetically speaking is like [TS]

  it's a concept that doesn't even make sense anymore and a modern you know [TS]

  memory protected pre-emptive multitasking virtual memory world and [TS]

  when people look at it seems crazy right [TS]

  so that's the part where you are right this isn't just like awkward to use in [TS]

  difficult because it doesn't use my subject to see figure named parameters [TS]

  and stuff like that this is a concept there have no purpose in the modern [TS]

  world and makes me jump through hoops for no reason unlike you getting all the [TS]

  most of us are a result back as yes [TS]

  entire world is like even the nice Objective C API said gross to me because [TS]

  you have these pointers everywhere [TS]

  writers and pretend that point Z will douse he says its objective seen pasted [TS]

  the link to the docking station and it reads as follows the AV Foundation [TS]

  framework provides an Objective C interface for Bubba Bubba yeah I never [TS]

  liked it that the capi just got so and so gross even though is incredibly [TS]

  feature rich that's why I stayed on for so long as you do such amazing things [TS]

  for the better certain point it was like if you had a legacy application built on [TS]

  QuickTime your app is amazing can do amazing things but if you want to write [TS]

  a new one no one want to dive in and make like a video editing application [TS]

  especially if you're gonna do like you are not professional video something [TS]

  you'd you'd imagine seeing the Mac App Store hazley edit your videos right you [TS]

  don't want to have to throw someone at the end of the full-fledged old-school [TS]

  CA be adequate time it will be much easier if there was a more modern API [TS]

  they could use to do most of that same stuff and so they started over the [TS]

  foundation and has taken him years to get to the point where I think we're [TS]

  close but the old quick time EP I did but they're moving that direction and [TS]

  let's take a break to think our first sponsor it is can you guess as its [TS]

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  Christmas so before we get away from this kind of low-level military do we [TS]

  all agree that and I didn't think about this when I read my blog post about what [TS]

  to expect it [TS]

  WPGC you have a blog once every two years all right on it I think I'm up to [TS]

  like or post a month for Leicester what you get for not skipping anyone's tweets [TS]

  from Casey tweets about his blog post I see how my comments on last when he's [TS]

  just [TS]

  I did actually having to catch that one about that but anyway one of the things [TS]

  I didn't think about that I wanted to ask you guys are we going to get the [TS]

  equivalent of the var keyword in c-sharp I forget with the terms for that but [TS]

  basically inferred type something things he pasado [TS]

  that's the same I believe it is high prevalence variant type inference is [TS]

  that is what I was looking for I believe you're right so in other words you can [TS]

  say I've got some variable here and i dont wanna I don't want to explicitly [TS]

  tell you what type of his compiler you're smart you figured out so I guess [TS]

  my question is actually two-fold firstly doing expects type inference in [TS]

  Objective C come Monday and secondly what with the crazy awesome this and I [TS]

  don't mean that sarcastically with the static analyzer can see the word I was [TS]

  looking for [TS]

  the static analyzer and all that craziness do we think that will see any [TS]

  advancements kind of maybe not as big but kind of the same way we saw mark I [TS]

  don't think it's any pressing need for type inference the reason I suggest that [TS]

  it is because it's like it's right there in front of because they've already got [TS]

  a static analyzer type inference can be implanted such a way that doesn't [TS]

  actually change anything about the language just basically saves you typing [TS]

  because right if if the static analyzer could figure out that that can only [TS]

  possible view on type they could ever make sense unless you're not put like [TS]

  the class name two times in the same line when you're declaring the stupid [TS]

  pointer variable and then you know calling the class method to make the you [TS]

  know I can hit know that stuff right [TS]

  why does it have to be that way we can just figure it out so it's kind of a [TS]

  nice to have but like the memory image of the program creates a different [TS]

  unlike arc for example which actually does create different in different [TS]

  programs would have been manually so this is even and even like less invasive [TS]

  shame shame that but it's a along the category of something dot syntax for its [TS]

  like was it was not sent acts like when people say oh I can't type anymore [TS]

  square brackets I want to do a dot maybe some people were like if if they had if [TS]

  they serve had a time to implement it and it's ready it'll be there but if it [TS]

  wasn't like oh my god this year we gotta have type inference because we're really [TS]

  getting things done I haven't they're not getting things done on getting too [TS]

  much more memory mattress so that was more pressing me so I feel like it's a [TS]

  50 50 chance if it's not there no one's gonna complain if it is they're like oh [TS]

  that's nice to have just not been pretty cool so not I'm really not trying to [TS]

  troll you just pearl have type inference and if so do you believe in you really [TS]

  know nothing about 45 min you believe in types does it it's all like type unsafe [TS]

  crap that's right everything is a docket trouble for it speaking loosely about [TS]

  type safe and unsafe and doesn't statically typed in dynamically typing [TS]

  strongly typed in weakly typed and I do not have definitions of terms in front [TS]

  of me so it's much easier talking more specific terms but suffice it to say [TS]

  that type inference is not [TS]

  as we're talking about an Objective C is basically an irrelevant concept and [TS]

  basically irrelevant in JavaScript or PHP for that matter right now because [TS]

  everything is very loosely tied a high-level language not to worry about [TS]

  those [TS]

  indirectly compliment PHP pointers and BHP you're also not worried about it [TS]

  like it's not even like Ruby real you know to ask to get the strength of a [TS]

  thing like you don't do that in PHP do you know what I'm saying like it's it's [TS]

  it's like Thomas scripts you know you just have a value in a variable in a [TS]

  certain way and it becomes less not as bad as JavaScript the crazy corrections [TS]

  yet to use the triple equal to avoid them and all that you know how it goes [TS]

  but it's not so much a dirty flew by [TS]

  why not use idea it whatever the crap it's called everywhere and that's that's [TS]

  something different you know when you use idea it would ever in Objective C [TS]

  that's saying hey you know i dont really know what this is just figured out at [TS]

  runtime type in france does is say hey I I know that this can only be one type [TS]

  just like john was saying earlier but i dont wanna spend the time typing [TS]

  NSString I just want to type the letters var and the compiler will figure out [TS]

  what is this type and fill it in for you not literally speaking figuratively [TS]

  speaking and it won't change your code or anything and so that gives you all [TS]

  the benefits of strong typing of which John doesn't believe in them because he [TS]

  writes pearl but it doesn't get but it saves you a little bit at a time and [TS]

  that's that's very different than using heidi is a something like to me I'm [TS]

  thinking if I have if I'm reading the code writing it ok you can type in the [TS]

  same keyword for everything ok that's you know that's interesting right here [TS]

  reading at the early wanna see a bunch of code that just a bunch of our [TS]

  declarations like is that is that really an improvement [TS]

  well that's exactly what I was that when I started to ask John about this that's [TS]

  where I was going with it is do you guys even believe in this in the first place [TS]

  and it would not let you do it in a case with India [TS]

  ambiguity I quit I don't know how these apostles auto keyword works or the [TS]

  marquee word in C sharp for that matter but I would imagine that Apple would [TS]

  bring two big juicy assuming it doesn't just bringing straight part of the [TS]

  autocue are because they do have really good see also supported this point and [TS]

  they get a hayride everything I thought you were done and done like we don't [TS]

  have to invent the future started there but assuming they bring their own [TS]

  keyword for type inference my guess would be that it would just not compile [TS]

  if there is any possible ambiguity and the place where you would not have any [TS]

  ambiguity is this typical thing where youre declaring a variable of a [TS]

  particular type in making a new object type and stick it into it right in the [TS]

  same line and they are you just do not need the class name twice that's a [TS]

  classic example like that's annoying stupid and nobody looking at that is [TS]

  going to be confused by like of our food equals and then class now and it can be [TS]

  confused by that it's right there you know it's going to that thing right so [TS]

  that is the most obvious case and then you scale down from there to the point [TS]

  where at a certain point the static analyzer says well I can't assume what [TS]

  type of your trying to say here because there's multiple possible values that [TS]

  would be valid and maybe we're just not compatible so you know you got a you [TS]

  know explicitly declared type right that's exactly how doesn't see sharp [TS]

  where if you don't say on that same line exactly what this is the compiler will [TS]

  puke it up and say I need some more in focus or you need to provide an actual [TS]

  type because I can't just infer what this is dead so if you have to have a [TS]

  mix of declared types and automatic types is it doesn't that kind of [TS]

  introduced a lot of bug potential and make her harder to read about was the [TS]

  bug potential I guess if you have a keyword if you can do without keywords [TS]

  like you can almost scripting languages then then that's that's rough because [TS]

  then you can like there's rules like ok well if you like if you if you misspell [TS]

  a variable name now it's not drama stuff like that you just you just start typing [TS]

  improve his problem too well but you know pearl pearl had it first and [TS]

  probably solution PHP it has the same [TS]

  we have a lot to do that and everybody uses that moment please tell me that has [TS]

  it will it'll throw a notice that you wish you can catch and treat as an error [TS]

  if you want to and I do where if you are using undeclared variable it can through [TS]

  the air but if you assigned to a variable that implicitly declares it and [TS]

  it's over but there still is that risk of assigning to a variable that I [TS]

  thought was the same one that I used headlines ago but I noticed that if you [TS]

  assigned to it know if you're if you're testing scripts JavaScript hilariously [TS]

  copied the president talked about this on past episode hilarious the Pearl [TS]

  solution like the prosecution is that they had a pragma use strict and then it [TS]

  turns into the good Lord where I could you make any typos I gotta know it very [TS]

  well you talking about I will not really be refused to create a new variable that [TS]

  he was not declared like like serious right [TS]

  JavaScript which works the other crazy way they said we want that too but we [TS]

  can change the language business in a browser so and JavaScript if you just [TS]

  make a string literal the double quarter pounder whatever use space strict and [TS]

  then close that string literal and put a semitone like no assignment nothing just [TS]

  like that string literal in your JavaScript code most modern browsers [TS]

  will see that interpreted as are you want to go into that strict mode it's [TS]

  kind of like pros use stricken areas that used the exact same phrase us-based [TS]

  rectal orkut right and then it will go into that mode sometimes it wasn't for [TS]

  browsers that don't understand that they just see it uses the use of a string [TS]

  literal infringement txt pro parlance right and so it's valid code compiles [TS]

  you're not you don't choke the other browsers but if you're using a modern [TS]

  browser that helps you out you get the benefits of working environment so yeah [TS]

  I mean JavaScript as an excuse because it's really old and again made by one [TS]

  guy under time pressure and didn't think he was going to be creating the next [TS]

  language for the next millennium right but [TS]

  I I would never imagine a language with so much [TS]

  bondage and discipline is subjective see whatever allow that type of thing where [TS]

  you just type of variable name to springs into existence it would only [TS]

  need some sort of word whether that be var auto or whatever bored outta would [TS]

  make up for it [TS]

  wanna talk about everybody see anymore how it's gonna say I do have more things [TS]

  to talk about [TS]

  don't let me start this conversation we're going off into the weeds it's like [TS]

  we're nerds or something that's not good if you really think about it you know we [TS]

  as a group of kind of made a podcasting career out of going off topic that's [TS]

  very true but in an attempt to stay on topic John what were you thinking about [TS]

  over the keynote in WTC so the blog post that I was too lazy to write this week [TS]

  welcome guest about yes this is the pattern sometimes abroad programs forces [TS]

  post is about some hardware now we've had the extra time and has all based [TS]

  laptops assuming they are simply Apple decides to put them in the Keno but I [TS]

  imagine they would because why not did it last year and the new ones are coming [TS]

  with a partner in the key and are not the thing that I hadn't realized really [TS]

  hadn't thought about actually was like like last year and since last year [TS]

  people don't ask me should I get around the MacBook Pro or MacBook Air and I'm [TS]

  telling people if you can wait wait because the areas have such terrible [TS]

  screen especially compared to the redness but the redness [TS]

  the integrated GPU the one that's on on the CPU Intel graphics one is just [TS]

  barely able to handle that screen and I think it's a shame to a first generation [TS]

  thing and that will be solved by Hasbro which is coming and how much better [TS]

  integrated graphics right so I am Telling You Can Wait Wait because [TS]

  they're going to revise the heirs and presumably of a nicer screen and faster [TS]

  and the red-nosed old is also that the image retention issue which I hope is [TS]

  being sought but I'm picking different screen supplier whatever and the next [TS]

  ones are gonna have you know faster CPU better battery life because of the [TS]

  household power savings but also a much better integrated GPU and what I hadn't [TS]

  been thinking about what I've been telling people that [TS]

  that is what if they ship them with just the integrated GPU and no external GPU [TS]

  anymore because I'm ending ok so the integrated GPU is gonna be better and [TS]

  it's going to finally be able to comfortably handle a Retina display but [TS]

  of course when you look at the game or something else about just told you know [TS]

  the whole use discrete GPU for the game [TS]

  reading after Indian on tech review of this thing you can see the integrated [TS]

  GPU is still slightly slower than the current discrete GPU that the user and [TS]

  the retina pros but that Apple could probably get away with not having [TS]

  discrete GPU and the 15 MacBook Pro I was just using the integrated because [TS]

  the power seems to be huge and just be a cost saving right he says yeah but [TS]

  everything gets better cost but I but on the other hand if you wouldn't you feel [TS]

  bad you bought a retina MacBook Pro this year and it didn't play a game as high [TS]

  frame rate as the one you could have bought last year the same time John we [TS]

  don't play games like Diablo 3 in that crazy retina resolution rate that's if [TS]

  not then it's a gaming laptop or anything like that it's just it would be [TS]

  weird would it be weird for a year later the new top of the line Apple laptop [TS]

  would have a GPU ever so slightly slower than the previous one and I'm sure that [TS]

  he hears that way they can go on as I think Apple could whip up some benchmark [TS]

  BS that makes the interplay one looks slightly faster than the discrete [TS]

  because they're tested you look beyond texting their test markets like 10 [TS]

  percent to 7 percent faster but overall it's it's mostly slightly slower sample [TS]

  could do the selective thing where they just pick their benchmark and say hey [TS]

  look and what we did to discrete GPU is just got an integrated one look at [TS]

  actually faster than the previous discrete 10 shows no single or small [TS]

  double digit gain on the carefully chosen benchmarks right they can do is [TS]

  what they did I think through about three years ago they they introduced a [TS]

  15 inch model at like $16.99 something like that it was it was seen below the [TS]

  previous 1999 minimum [TS]

  it was a low in 15 inch MacBook Pro that didn't have a discrete GPU it only had [TS]

  one and all the other 15 inches the higher higher priced ones [TS]

  a discrete GPUs and everyone's called it when I have multiple skews done it [TS]

  before they've done it they do it for other things you know if it makes sense [TS]

  that they can do it this you know if they did this maybe they would you know [TS]

  keep the discrete GPU in the most expensive configuration but then in the [TS]

  cheapest one then leave it out and have you know if I was buying I'd actually [TS]

  buy that one because it would be cooler running you no longer battery life [TS]

  everything else and the whole dual GPU thing has always been buggy in the OS [TS]

  like it if you if you use something like like I believe it's Cody Krieger's [TS]

  graphics card status program it'll tell you which ones and use in a little has a [TS]

  motive Rican attempt to force it to use one of the other and it doesn't always [TS]

  work as a weirdo as things but it doesn't just use the discrete GPU four [TS]

  games did it has some kind of conditions where I think of something uses later [TS]

  backed views are core animation in a certain way that it automatically turns [TS]

  GPU on if if that happens running at all and that includes things like iCal I [TS]

  mean like really commonly used to not go to the discrete GPU quite as easily they [TS]

  have made changes the USSA used to be right like you did almost anything [TS]

  involving applications that were not impressive line-up sorry if you touch [TS]

  this this framework at all we're going to try to be open and they kept like [TS]

  moving a backside well integrated GPU can handle that ok well unlike other [TS]

  trying to do is trade off like jerky scrolling and kind of bad drawing [TS]

  performance that they know what could be better for him this creeper the trade [TS]

  imbalance like no power and that's what I say about that machine being [TS]

  comprehend that you write that dude you think is never quite right and it's [TS]

  always leaves lots of weird drawing glitches [TS]

  and you know people have read this artist I felt like I was scrolling [TS]

  through Safari I could be read in the bugs in it also could be the GPU [TS]

  switching what they think about the customer experience of you know if you [TS]

  if you don't know about the switching and if you don't know which after [TS]

  causing it then you have a situation where your laptop will seemingly [TS]

  randomly get like 30 percent less battery life on some days are you doing [TS]

  certain things and it's really hard to tell why that is for you in my case like [TS]

  it was always iCal doing that which is annoying or Twitter as we both did they [TS]

  almost almost so many apps do this now including so many Apple apps that if [TS]

  you're multitasking at all [TS]

  you probably have something keeping the discrete GPU running and so you end up [TS]

  like having these these bursts of time where you'll get dramatically less [TS]

  battery life and there's there's no obvious answer to the most people as to [TS]

  why that is and that's just that's terrible makes Apple look bad it makes [TS]

  the customers unhappy [TS]

  everything runs too hot and that's why I think like that there would be a [TS]

  performance tradeoff for certain conditions like games bye bye going [TS]

  integrated only but in almost every other way that would actually be better [TS]

  yeah I agree and go back to quickstep another great example is because I think [TS]

  that there's some sort of multiplexer in between the graphics cards in the [TS]

  DisplayPort such that if you have an external display connected capacity [TS]

  you're running on that discrete GPUs let's say you're sitting at your desk [TS]

  and you've been using your computer for hours and nothing's gone wrong and you [TS]

  have half your battery left and then you go to do a presentation and suddenly you [TS]

  have an external monitor that being here for your projector hooked up to your [TS]

  computer and your battery power just disappears instantly and that's because [TS]

  of the multiplex in front of the display port or something along those lines and [TS]

  it doesn't need to be that way because the 13 inch and the heirs don't have [TS]

  discrete GPUs and I put extra monitor just fine with the nude but the new [TS]

  chips a lot of these problems will be lesson severely because they can do [TS]

  almost everything on the integrated now they won't have to go to entry just [TS]

  because they won't have to go to the integrated when you do something fancy [TS]

  right so you can basically go to the discrete rather they'll be able to stick [TS]

  to the integrated GPU almost all the time except for perhaps things like dams [TS]

  so like that's why I'm coming with the question is like it's totally an apple [TS]

  move to just say it sorry no more discrete GPU and that means of this [TS]

  machine either Apple's gonna say is only slightly faster and graphics performance [TS]

  in the previous one or is on par but head and all super duper tight like a [TS]

  look at the powers that all the other things we were talking about is an [TS]

  amazing so that's definitely one way they can go I will be a little bit [TS]

  disappointed in that but I can see the apple picking through the slides in my [TS]

  head of how they're going to sell down people be like oh it's not so bad right [TS]

  because it would be a mean for almost every person who's not doing like 3d [TS]

  graphics are games it would be a clear win because I never cared about the [TS]

  frame rate of some game all I know is my battery life is better to deal with GPS [TS]

  which is great but the thing is that mark about alright so maybe this is one [TS]

  top end model where they put the discrete GPU and therefore the gamers or [TS]

  whatever and then the question is what is that discrete GPU like the ones at [TS]

  6:50 7:50 a.m. is out something like that I could also see them going that [TS]

  route and it you know Apple knows better than us to never gives the breakdowns [TS]

  but say they say they've perusal I'm like what is the breakdown between the [TS]

  ones with the screen in the ones with it like I start to think of the guys who [TS]

  opted for the discrete GPU being kind of like the people who buy the Mac Pro like [TS]

  when you think you're super important and we think it's awesome and everything [TS]

  but it's like point oh five percent of the customers it's really difficult for [TS]

  a ticket to keep doing the things I feel better is the [TS]

  the super high res 59 sure you get the 15 inch higher res screen they did that [TS]

  for a long time and I have to think that like almost nobody bought that stupid [TS]

  things like the man screen and the high res like the only people by the people [TS]

  who like Mac Pros like you know I've been lots of Apple stores and I have [TS]

  never known anyone who is not a superhero dropped if not screen because [TS]

  you say this one is more expensive it's Matt which doesn't look a shiny shiny [TS]

  right and he was like why would you get the one that's like uglier quote-unquote [TS]

  unclear and I had to squint to see it and it's more expensive I'll take that [TS]

  one place like it's got to be with everybody so well you'd be surprised I [TS]

  mean granted I am talking about nerds but everyone in my office that has a [TS]

  MacBook Pro has one of those I'm looking at to within arms reach right now my [TS]

  personal one is also my work one i mean they're unbelievably great machines if [TS]

  you're not gonna go right now and they were they were the best of the 15 inch [TS]

  MacBook Pros up until the retina MacBook Pros so any of those who were you know [TS]

  checkbox nerds you know who said who I want the best darn it then they would [TS]

  get these and they are unbelievably great machines accepting the discrete [TS]

  GPU [TS]

  yeah so this this is my blood fun litmus test for this keynote is when they [TS]

  introduced this line of things to look to see well and have a discrete GPU and [TS]

  if they don't like what does that say about me that gets back to the whole [TS]

  night bro thing like what kind of signals as Apple sending about the kind [TS]

  of company is it the kind of company that has decided that it's just doesn't [TS]

  care about top-end performance anymore and it considers battery life and [TS]

  suitability for like 80 percent to 90 percent 99.5% do whatever presented as [TS]

  to just beat so much more important than everything else so I'm I've got my [TS]

  fingers crossed for at least one model still with this group GPU but I think [TS]

  I've been mostly ok for this to be a transition year where they go into rated [TS]

  only because the the next round of chips like maybe Intel will continue [TS]

  dedicating sixty-five percent or more of its no CPU space to graphics [TS]

  and you know 40 nanometers that that gives you a pretty darn good GPU CPU and [TS]

  so by that point you like right well discrete GPU how barbaric right now [TS]

  keeping with hardware market you have anything to add on laptops not that [TS]

  covers it I mean I i'm looking forward to what they do I don't you know i I [TS]

  currently own the cheapest model of the current which is the first 15 inch [TS]

  MacBook Pro and I use it as a travel and and upstairs computer and so i don't i [TS]

  don't use it a lot like I'm constantly I'm not pushing its boundaries so I [TS]

  don't plant upgrade at all so with that in mind [TS]

  gentlemen there is time will there be a Mac Pro or something equivalent thereof [TS]

  before getting this let me let me do our second sponsors I know I know this is [TS]

  our second sponsored this is a new sponsor this week but I hope you have [TS]

  already heard them even to buy them that the sponsor is tops tio and X and tongs [TS]

  is a coffee subscription service you know I write this blog post awhile back [TS]

  people always ask me you know how do you make great coffee or you know what's [TS]

  what kind of setup do I need to make great coffee people always obsessed with [TS]

  gear and stuff like that and the fact is the answer is actually pretty boring the [TS]

  answer is we'll get an Aeropress $25 get an Aeropress and get a really good [TS]

  grinder which you know you can get a good a good book writer for between like [TS]

  fifty and two hundred dollars depending on you know what kind of quality and [TS]

  durability and hefty want to it so get a grounder get an error press and then [TS]

  just get fresh roasted beans that are really good [TS]

  well that last part is not very easy in most places most people don't live right [TS]

  next to really great roaster and even if you have extra great roster you might [TS]

  not like the way they roast [TS]

  you might like their taste Tonks is a really really great roaster and they [TS]

  they will ship you with fast shipping I believe anywhere in the USA I don't [TS]

  think this right side of the USA [TS]

  check that they will ship you every two weeks some amount of coffee whenever you [TS]

  pick either 612 424 and they roasted and they ship it out almost immediately so [TS]

  by the time it gets to you it is very very fresh and they pick world-class [TS]

  being all over the place trying to find the best beans and so every week is [TS]

  different but nice variety so you basically don't have to do anything you [TS]

  can sign up at odds go to do the talking stopped org CTO and acts dot org / 80 [TS]

  peace there have been no you came from us and just sign up for a trial and you [TS]

  can even get you can get them to send you a trial their beings you can taste [TS]

  how good they are [TS]

  this is my answer when people say what should I get I say get an Aeropress get [TS]

  the good grinder and just sign up for talks and then got to worry about it [TS]

  then you will just get fresh beans every two weeks and they're just really really [TS]

  good at you really can't go wrong with this it'll probably the best coffee ever [TS]

  had and I know I've been a top member for a long time I I currently have [TS]

  caused my sweet only be alive I've been self hosting by whenever I can't keep [TS]

  can't keep up sell for asking I always go back to talks and they are awesome [TS]

  out lots of friends who used them they've just fantastic highly [TS]

  recommended [TS]

  they're also having a Father's Day promotion its talks his way of honoring [TS]

  the dead among us for new customers only from june 7th thru 17th they're giving [TS]

  away an Aeropress if you sign up directly for a standard subscription [TS]

  everyone signing up will have their first delivery shipped out on the 17th [TS]

  and the Arab press will come shortly after that depend on how quickly they [TS]

  can get them that's pretty cool in a basal to sign up for talks and get a [TS]

  free air pressure in the five-day promotion so check that out on start org [TS]

  / ATP that's gon x.org / ATP thanks a lot to talk to sponsor in a show here [TS]

  suggest checking out their awesome Mac Pro or equivalent Yes No maybe announced [TS]

  the WEC I say no I'm gonna see this year then yes something [TS]

  Tim Cook said says and no enthusiasm I'm reading all the stories are at Marcus [TS]

  thing [TS]

  I'm prepared to be like might my judgment for the Mac Pro thing is no [TS]

  matter how well suited to my particularly is which I know of my needs [TS]

  are not what I meant to mirror but regardless of whether I am disappointed [TS]

  in or not what I want to see from the company I think it needs even the [TS]

  company is this thing better be faster than all the existing max that sounds [TS]

  stupid like why would they even make it was not a series of like I wanted to be [TS]

  not just like five percent faster than I am right now I wanted to crush the iMac [TS]

  I wanted to be redic in every way [TS]

  disk i/o memory you know CPU speed number of course it like everything it [TS]

  should just it's just crush all the other messages why even have this [TS]

  product and if to make something the crashes all the other Macs you have to [TS]

  make something with no internal drive bays he just uses like the equivalent of [TS]

  marcos crazy PCI Express St Carteret fine whatever whatever you gotta do to [TS]

  make this thing ridiculous faster when when Mac reports of little graphs [TS]

  showing like how this computer compares I don't want to see just a bunch of [TS]

  little lines looks like your your cell phone signal strength in the last one is [TS]

  a little bit longer so much you know in every possible way that's the purpose of [TS]

  this machine and I'm not so picky to say like oh you have to make it exactly my [TS]

  needs I I like sheep internal drives a jeep so you have to have room for 500 on [TS]

  drugs or whatever if you have to make it but no internal drives and she's like a [TS]

  sealed box with insanely fast fun and do that so that's my wish for the Mac Pro [TS]

  this point I'm into the bargaining stage I think there there's a few things to [TS]

  consider here you know one is that when people are thinking about what to do [TS]

  with the Mac Pro and what the future might hold people whose throughout these [TS]

  weird ideas like oh they're going to have to be able to daisy-chain multiple [TS]

  Mac minis with Thunderbolt and compile the computing power like all the people [TS]

  of these crazy ideas but like I said in the ad hoc Rui do TV anime games look [TS]

  better get back to me and so but the reality is the Mac Pro is as the on [TS]

  workstation it runs stock Intel CPUs on AV almost stock Intel motherboard you [TS]

  know there's not a lot of like custom [TS]

  Apple low-level engineering going into this it's mostly assembling stock Intel [TS]

  parts with sock Intel chipsets with you know some modifications for Apple but [TS]

  not a whole lot and so I don't think you know I think it's very easy to just look [TS]

  at what intel has available and that old roughly tells what the possibilities are [TS]

  here because that's how to my prose always worked and it doesn't seem like a [TS]

  massively growing industry for Apple to dump a whole bunch of custom engineering [TS]

  into intel has custom injuries was to remember back when larrabee was going on [TS]

  at Intel right and the rumors I heard was that Apple's was totally into that [TS]

  like oh yeah and tell you want to take on the GPU whereby making tons a little [TS]

  cheap x86 cores and making a GPU and that we're all over that cause we've got [TS]

  all this you know OpenCL stuff that we think would work great with that and [TS]

  like the project came to nothing but that's an example of where Intel may [TS]

  have this notion of doing something weird in custom and Apple would be like [TS]

  yeah we can do that this will build machine around this crazy thing so I [TS]

  don't think it's inconceivable that Apple could come up with a machine that [TS]

  uses some crazy things that Intel made and it's like a collaboration where no [TS]

  one else was telling until we want this crazy thing because the rest of the [TS]

  industry does want to give the CPUs give us chipsets will put them into our [TS]

  service will sell them like they just want straight up stuff but Apple has an [TS]

  appetite are used to have an opportunity 144 weird stuff can you make a weird [TS]

  shrunken version of whatever that core 2 duo was because without this weird [TS]

  shrink truck conversion we can't just a custom package though it was larry was a [TS]

  project was doing you know it wasn't like they were doing it because of Apple [TS]

  like they had their own reasons Apple sought and say we know we can make a [TS]

  machine around that so apparently the remarkable that Apple had them in the [TS]

  labs and they're still in route that it was the time they are making OpenCL I [TS]

  think we're just grateful that they were comin driver sales going to work out [TS]

  had that come to fruition it would have produced a very interesting machine and [TS]

  I think there's still room for that kind of collaboration where I don't think [TS]

  it's out of the question that Intel could want to make something [TS]

  independently of Apple Apple and Intel bring about will be excited by and say [TS]

  we can make a machinery [TS]

  you know if you're looking for some crazy conspiracy theory of why has it [TS]

  been three years ago we got this great thing to be like it because they [TS]

  couldn't decide for two and a half years and last six months I slap something [TS]

  that's possibility that the possibility is there working on something weird and [TS]

  crazy and it took this long for it to come out because Intel thing was later [TS]

  whenever like we don't know at this point but I would be perfectly happy [TS]

  with Apple trying to do something daring in cooperation with Intel and I don't [TS]

  think it's out of the question for us to see something that's weird but you're [TS]

  right they were much more likely at this point to set to Lex today at this point [TS]

  even the stupid boring thing is just taking intel's listing on sticking in a [TS]

  box and selling it to us like that would be fine and told people wanted last year [TS]

  but that's all we want to just take the new CPUs and doing given up nearly [TS]

  always have like we're not like the the super boring obvious thing at this point [TS]

  would just be like that's great yes fine go with that you know but I still like [TS]

  to thank her in the absence of any actual product it's this is our last [TS]

  chance to fantasize about something really weird but I think I think it's [TS]

  worth it worth considering you know they skipped a generation for some reason [TS]

  that they were there was some something that made it worth skipping a generation [TS]

  and maybe it was a weird stuff well I mean come on it and probably not maybe [TS]

  your trip with Thunderbolt and chipsets cause I couldn't last year there is some [TS]

  good stuff on and on talk about this we're like basically last year thats [TS]

  that server chips said there was no good way to put on a belt on and they're [TS]

  still kind of isn't goodbye to put on a busy on board that has a pci-express GPU [TS]

  on a card that there's still no way to wrap the video there are some some [TS]

  decided relatively minor problem that prevents thunderbolt from working the [TS]

  way it should in a board that has a lot of video card that also means they [TS]

  couldn't convince Intel to like me just like that for us like I know where the [TS]

  only customer just do that for us and like the answer for the volumes of the [TS]

  Mac Pro from Intel is probably like you know they don't sell enough so this is [TS]

  what what has me interested be concerned is that [TS]

  that it does seem like from what we're hearing a special even from what Apple [TS]

  has said you know it seems like this isn't just a we skipped once young [TS]

  generation and the next generation which is going to be this fall [TS]

  we're just going to update the CPUs and call it a day [TS]

  this sounds like they're going to be doing a more significant change in that [TS]

  but I'm kind of worried as to what that change might be and and and I think so [TS]

  earlier on has always been like this in the post like if you try to scale down [TS]

  the Mac Pro if you try to remove any any part of it the currently makes it big [TS]

  and beefy inexpensive say you switch to consumer CPUs of those that usually the [TS]

  one that gets a should do well just switch to Ivy Bridge has wellness which [TS]

  ever whatever desktop CPU family is current and that'll make it WAY cheaper [TS]

  and you can make it smaller everything and all those things are true but then [TS]

  if you if you go away from Xeons and you go to the desktop CPUs then you have way [TS]

  fewer RAM slots a lower RAM ceiling no support for ECC so you have plenty more [TS]

  chances of things going a little bit wacky special later on in life and and [TS]

  so you know it's like a wreck some things if you record in the past two [TS]

  right and and like video editors who like people who like scientific [TS]

  computing people who actually by today's dual socket macros for like five Grandin [TS]

  up if you cut the stock account have you cut the performance of parallel tasks in [TS]

  half and to most of us like me and you it doesn't really matter I i my current [TS]

  one is the single socket six-core because that just made the most sense [TS]

  when I bought it but I'll for a lot of people like they don't want to give up a [TS]

  socket date you know they would buy for soccer model if it was because they [TS]

  actually it actually matters a lot to them if something renders in half the [TS]

  time and so you know if that's not to be taken lightly to remove half the course [TS]

  I want these computers and then also affects the rambling stuff like that so [TS]

  there's there's other problems with with that then there's you know people who [TS]

  say oh you should remove the card slots at well that ruins a lot of different [TS]

  things and in small ways you know it [TS]

  everyone's people who want to have more than one GPU to have a bunch of monitors [TS]

  and there that's surprisingly common actual and you can see how you can use [TS]

  Thunderbolt you're adding hacks and that's a that's more limited and stuff [TS]

  like that and you can have your monitor that exist in the world and stuff like [TS]

  that so there's there's all these edge cases with the Mac Pro and you said [TS]

  before there are so many edge cases of every other Apple computer says no in [TS]

  some way no you can't have this no you can't expand this node is limited to [TS]

  this the Mac Pro only says no to affordability and size constraints and [TS]

  power usage right but it's like the new Mac Pro basically covers all of the edge [TS]

  cases in in one computer end and if you changed any of its fundamental [TS]

  attributes you would cut off a large slice of those edge cases and so under [TS]

  certain things like you know you can't make it cheaper without not using the [TS]

  young anymore but that breaks the things you can't you can't make it smaller [TS]

  without you know removing some card support a bunch of days that's the [TS]

  reason why people buy these things and and if you make it a lot smaller than [TS]

  your still running hot chips leonid different fans know that they might be [TS]

  louder there's all these all these tradeoffs that make you realize that the [TS]

  Mac Pro today is the way it is for really good reasons and that if you [TS]

  dramatically change something about it you're gonna anger a lot of people are [TS]

  you you're going to you're gonna make it suddenly not be possible for people to [TS]

  use it for what they need to do anymore [TS]

  this information is not seem to penetrate the the fam by community but I [TS]

  was surprised by the fact that you had to listen to your article again today [TS]

  and how people respond to it like the fact that you can't have high and GPUs [TS]

  hangover Thunderbolt like we're gonna go completely through the Thunderball one [TS]

  error with that never dying like every single form was like oh don't worry [TS]

  you'll see a bunch of boxes connected by thunderbolt and someone will say are you [TS]

  can have a hand in your car notes [TS]

  why I'm like that's seems like that piece of wisdom should eventually [TS]

  penetrated the community but like that's that's a non-starter the daisy chain [TS]

  type box thing like there are some things you can externalizing that you'd [TS]

  like to give me one is optical right tackle slow that could have been outside [TS]

  the computer forever guaranteed optical inside it and less like the case [TS]

  continues to be huge in which case both put him in there because you know [TS]

  whatever but like you can externalize an optical and you have not lost anything [TS]

  because optical are so cheap and they're so slow there's no problem the buses are [TS]

  in like that but I was there anything else you externalize you do something [TS]

  external video cards but you can't do it with current honorable team with the new [TS]

  Thunderbolt I don't think it's fast it's like whatever the 16 x PCI Express line [TS]

  maybe maybe we'll be able to that I know but certainly not with existing thought [TS]

  about you just can't write externalizing drives well he said it probably too but [TS]

  I think so but that's like you need some sort of enclosure and you have these [TS]

  things dangling around if they discovered and wires and enclosures and [TS]

  power brakes on all these like a million different things and it's more expensive [TS]

  drugs that's fast [TS]

  well you know good luck finding a drive mechanism or you could buy like [TS]

  one-eighth of an external trade you can buy an empty Thunderbolt enclosure for [TS]

  like a $200 twice the price of the actual drive right and you know video [TS]

  cards and i cant external as those and the CPU sockets like you're not gonna [TS]

  have one of those in a box like I think the new interconnect like Thunderbolt [TS]

  everything we can talk about them about the second CPU of Thunderball Campbell [TS]

  oh and now it's not magic it's so the bus [TS]

  limited bandwidth and you can write and so maybe we someday we will get to that [TS]

  modular point but we're definitely not there yet and even if we were like what [TS]

  would be the motivation for the modularization in that way because it [TS]

  would just create a big hairy massing . the company that wants you to have a [TS]

  hundred boxes like unless they could be connected wirelessly or something we [TS]

  thought power adapters everywhere for 25 years and maybe we'll have a bunch of [TS]

  Mecca many like things that all talk to each other [TS]

  you know and and provide imagine we're not there yet so I don't know all the [TS]

  other things too is like if they're gonna make any any of these dramatic [TS]

  changes to the Mac Pro what's in it for them and what's in it for us like what [TS]

  who is demanding these changes [TS]

  get Mac Pro owners we already keep the computer on the floor next to our desk [TS]

  or under a desk like it's we don't really need to be a much smaller I mean [TS]

  I don't really care what size it is I don't see it under my desk [TS]

  you know its size is not really that important power usage is not that [TS]

  important either it's put into the wall and electricity in most places where you [TS]

  could afford a Mac Pro is not that expensive and you know it's it's not [TS]

  your computers made p for people who are doing important things with them and [TS]

  doing demanding things like what you know it is there really that much demand [TS]

  to shrink it or to make it you know [TS]

  cooler running or anything that I just don't see it and and so so obviously you [TS]

  know if they're going to make something dramatically different that sounds for [TS]

  the most part it really is about the different it sounds like for existing [TS]

  mapper fans it's going to be significantly worse in some way so the [TS]

  question is is there gonna be something better to make up for that like his [TS]

  Apple what they're saying you know Tim Cook said oh you'll be very pleased by [TS]

  it next year and then that thing I'm going to do it the guy said you're so [TS]

  happy you waited it it seems like Apple's really happy with this Apple's [TS]

  really think this is awesome and I have to wonder if you believe them when they [TS]

  say it like to be happy with soon as you say that it makes me know that I'm not [TS]

  going to be happy with it because like we we now believe that the people behind [TS]

  who people in charge of deciding anything about the Mac Pro do not have [TS]

  our interests at heart because they've left us out in the cold for three years [TS]

  right so now we've we've already decided like if you if you can about my needs I [TS]

  we would not be in the situation so clearly you don't and this is just this [TS]

  is kind of like the Final Cut Pro people felt like I think you're gonna love the [TS]

  new found a problem like I can't get my work done because you didn't support XY [TS]

  and Z and even though you think we shouldn't be using whatever that stupid [TS]

  file format was that I actually need to do my work so screw you did eventually [TS]

  have to go back and add [TS]

  support for that thing was that a camera in the name of like Apple this totally [TS]

  on board and I was both as a non video editor saying yes I gotta drive the [TS]

  stuff forward but if you just need to get your work done now comes out with [TS]

  new original founder protocol non-starter view I that's great but I [TS]

  can't use that program you you have made something that's not good for me but [TS]

  Apple is telling those people we think you're really gonna look like if they [TS]

  had told before found competent came out there like you guys man just trust me an [TS]

  extra 50 prosecutors gonna love it it's gonna be awesome and it happened I think [TS]

  probably really believe that and it arrived and those people did not love it [TS]

  right right or wrong so they were wrong to not limit that you know it doesn't [TS]

  matter who is right around the fact is that Apple told those people you are [TS]

  going to love this program and they didn't and I feel like where exactly in [TS]

  that situation where Apple telling us we're gonna love it and we're not where [TS]

  did we may be wrong and maybe that you know you should not because that's the [TS]

  future maybe this in future but I don't feel like we're gonna love it yeah and I [TS]

  think you know Final Cut Pro 10 you you think you hope at least I hope at least [TS]

  I hope that Apple learn from that that you know they their arrogance of saying [TS]

  we're gonna take things away and you're gonna like the result better because [TS]

  it's just because we think it's better that has worked a lot of the time and a [TS]

  lot of times they're right but it only works to a point and at some point you [TS]

  cross the line you just anger people and are you make a decision you make it so [TS]

  you can't do your work anymore and works if you can do like we don't care about [TS]

  existing customers this economy better for new customers new customers in the [TS]

  future this more of them if that's true you're fine if it's not true or less 20 [TS]

  customers are pissed and so I feel like you know the Mac Pro it it's a it's a [TS]

  similar market in many ways it overlaps the market of people who use final cut [TS]

  and and I worry I i'm i'm reassured that I hope Apple learn from Final Cut Pro 10 [TS]

  and from it being relatively a debacle and and cost them a lot of a lot of [TS]

  customers I think but also you know so the Mac Pro it's a lot of the same [TS]

  people with a lot of the same problems [TS]

  and it's a very sore situation where of Apple dramatic changes this in some way [TS]

  things better it better really be better in the customers I hit a lot of people [TS]

  are going to be angry and it's going to be you know Apple can tolerate losing [TS]

  some small percentage of an audience right to get a bigger one but the Mac [TS]

  Pro like to be young people who buy this thing are people who are needy and picky [TS]

  like us or like professionals who do video editing and stuff like that like [TS]

  those people who buy these things it is not a mass market products and I feel he [TS]

  can get a price computing market you can you can be that aggressive with removing [TS]

  features and change things around in the consumer market but once you get into [TS]

  things that people need to do their jobs [TS]

  our needs are a lot less flexible and so when you when you start messing with [TS]

  things you run a much bigger risk and I i hope they learn from that but I don't [TS]

  know if they did I want to reiterate though like that I really do believe [TS]

  that ten was that the correct move and it is better than the old one is just a [TS]

  transition period it's difficult and that's why I said before that I am I [TS]

  will actually be okay with them producing something new that does not [TS]

  satisfy the needs of existing provided the reason they did it was because we [TS]

  decided if we totally ignore the needs of existing customers and went off in [TS]

  this new direction we can make a computer that is dramatically more [TS]

  powerful dramatically faster in the same way that i believe i think is actually [TS]

  the case that Final Cut Pro by leaving behind all that legacy craft lesson do [TS]

  things they were not like not be able to like the democratic counterpart and as [TS]

  someone who is not a professional video I watched that and I'd use the old [TS]

  version and I said wow this new version is much better for the reasons stated it [TS]

  is it's just the people music at their job done there were pissed off right so [TS]

  I'm willing to say fine you're gonna make a machine that is unsuitable [TS]

  according to my current needs that is unsuitable for a large number of current [TS]

  Mac Pro customers but it's like super awesomely fast and you can do amazing [TS]

  things that you could never do like if they traded it for something right I [TS]

  thought they did trade it for something they traded a program to the existing [TS]

  customers look like for a better way to edit video [TS]

  that may have been too damn trade business wise or whatever but I think [TS]

  like time is on their side with that type of transition assuming they [TS]

  continue to develop the product and I'm ok with that for the Mac Pro but I don't [TS]

  want to see them training all the stuff existing customers want and just give me [TS]

  like a minor delays I'm a community like screw you like like like like a faster [TS]

  Mac Mini Mac Mini with a great EBU and it like that is just helping nobody [TS]

  cried so Final Cut Pro even artists landed i think is an example of them [TS]

  doing the right thing and getting punished for it by by their existing [TS]

  customers feel like it's much easier to fix software free shipping like they [TS]

  went back to find comfort and I said ok see you I think was a decision was to [TS]

  you need support that ok we'll put it in its you need this ok we'll put it in [TS]

  like they did they did go back right but you cannot release a point release that [TS]

  includes more PCI slots right so I don't know if it's much harder when it comes [TS]

  to hardware and I'm a little worried but what do you think about the Ren [TS]

  possibility I think you are right that bike hits it sure looks like the [TS]

  borderline right like maybe you can see this year and maybe would be like just [TS]

  barely gettin under the wire but it would sure you better way to next year [TS]

  on yeah I'm thinking you know for four point of view you know Apple obviously [TS]

  has really good connections to the panel manufacturers and can get things before [TS]

  everybody else you can look at the original 27 inch iMac for example of [TS]

  that and when the 27 iMac first came out and had the same horizontal resolution [TS]

  as the 30 inch monitor and cost a few hundred dollars less I believe it [TS]

  much about it but it had lower res 13 transfer but it only cut off a little [TS]

  bit off the bottom of it went from 1610 269 and so you know it it was thirty 30 [TS]

  inch was 2500 something 2560 by 1600 vs 2560 1440 now the twenty cent current 27 [TS]

  inches 1920 by 1200 know your size off thats the 21 anyway so when the thing [TS]

  came out [TS]

  had the same resolution roughly very close resolution as the 38th monitor [TS]

  that actually cost almost the same amount as the entire iMac it was it was [TS]

  like you were buying this awesome monitor and getting a free computer lab [TS]

  the back of it and yes and her get mad and so you know the at the time it [TS]

  seemed impossible you know people like me who are geeks about the stuff like [TS]

  how can Apple afford to put this ridiculously expensive panel in a [TS]

  computer it only costs that much and it turned out that they had a good deal [TS]

  with the manufacturers they were the first ones to get a panel of those specs [TS]

  and in that size and and they got a really great price on it for a while and [TS]

  that's how they were able to do it and so you know today it comes out the other [TS]

  day came out there who was it Asus somebody had a Asus Asus had a 31.5 inch [TS]

  porque panel just 38 40 buy something and and and Ada at my sitting resolution [TS]

  that is officially retina by Steve Jobs old definition of it and so distance [TS]

  rather and so you know retina for k panel now exists and they say the price [TS]

  for Asus monitors gonna be like $4000 well what if Apple AAPL has some really [TS]

  good deal with somebody to make similar panels to make them for k panels and [TS]

  what if they can sell it for 3,000 hits how much harder to get that deal with [TS]

  you don't put it in IMAX tho cuz if you just put it in the Mac Pro now that I'm [TS]

  saying they wouldn't do it because they can get a great deal under whatever [TS]

  because they have no problem charging obscene amounts her big month for like [TS]

  30 interest 3500 registered so I don't think it's a hardware limitation and I [TS]

  don't even think it's because they can get a good deal on them I worry about [TS]

  how balanced the machine would be with that high resolution I mean I guess if [TS]

  you find with the Mac Pros you're gonna have a really big hopefully a really big [TS]

  powerful GPU and there but if the Mac Pro is the only machine you hook up them [TS]

  on her to feel like people with laptops alike can i buy that monitor black no [TS]

  you can't you can't drive from your laptop and it's like he said nothing [TS]

  like it would just it would make more sense [TS]

  economy of scale wise to wait until all that power lines all the apples line of [TS]

  computers can drive this monitor and then just by then it will be cheaper [TS]

  anyway naturally then bring it out then it comes down to like the reason I'm [TS]

  doubting is because I was just shown so little interest in the super high-end [TS]

  like why would they even bother to put a reminder that only america can run of [TS]

  computer they are not even a bit in the computer for three years and suddenly [TS]

  they're going to give its very own special monitor for an entire year that [TS]

  no one else can use the entire product line even if they charge five grams of [TS]

  that money just like that season seems like kind of thing that Apple does these [TS]

  days but then again the Mac Pro to the similar kind of those days in this it's [TS]

  hard to envision in this period of time here without an update for the Mac Pro [TS]

  forever that we're going to get both the new Mac Pro and a fancy new awesome [TS]

  under that only the Mac broken then provide like that would be helped turn [TS]

  around and to think well hate crime but also you know you know what if what if [TS]

  this is part of the new Apple under Tim Cook where they start caring about the [TS]

  high anymore because the high end is very profitable it's it's very low units [TS]

  but it's very profitable per unit plus they just want to make you happy I mean [TS]

  really that's what John pipeline to the finder in the file system as examples of [TS]

  how I think I think if you if you look at you know assuming Haswell laptops [TS]

  come out next week I think you're right that it would be really a stretch for [TS]

  them to release a monitor that only works with Mac Pros that would that [TS]

  would definitely be a big stretch I think there's two interesting [TS]

  possibilities here one is what if the Haswell laptops can output for k what if [TS]

  they actually can now put these monitors and its energy they're not talked about [TS]

  or integrated GPU [TS]

  yeah it's like you can use DisplayPort 1.2 able to point at which isn't ready [TS]

  yet but I worry like ok can drive it versus like can drive it and still [TS]

  scroll things at a recent you know me and like it's kind of red currant the [TS]

  current when they have to render the off-screen thing to be larger than the [TS]

  present scale yeah that off screen is really pushing under the current GPU and [TS]

  is that like I was like that's good but you know what I spend the fifteen inches [TS]

  biggest off-screen is forecast a when you want me putting in the simulated [TS]

  1920 mode that's for its like it's it's almost a before care if it's not exactly [TS]

  so if you're already kind of do it I'm thinking of like if you spent the amount [TS]

  of money you spend on the high end thing you don't want to scroll feel like I'm [TS]

  fine if I'm doing something taxing is ok to get a little study but the whole [TS]

  reason to buy expensive things everything else to be like butter and [TS]

  inexperienced citizens you know so I am I guess you're right if the FDA granted [TS]

  and ever look at the actual resting at the if the current off-screen is similar [TS]

  to four then maybe I can drive it as just a question of the interconnect they [TS]

  could do also come to the back brokers with both to the rear badge Thunderbolt [TS]

  to have been officially announced yet so I was like wow is Apple going drives [TS]

  external displays and people would come at us in areas of well happened to do [TS]

  some crazy custom thing because Apple's AAPL and they only underscore were there [TS]

  to support and so what you buy the album are you hooked up to the Apple Mac Pro [TS]

  replacement and runs for both unable to my understanding is all Thunderbolt to [TS]

  is my understanding from a single tweet from crazy person is it should do is [TS]

  take the 210 10 Gigabit links and hang them together so you have a single 22 [TS]

  thats all of us and that's why it's to access instead of having to [TS]

  bidirectional 10 gigabits you have one bidirectional twenty you better think [TS]

  again that the sourcing for that is a single [TS]

  research so feel free to email me and tell me that is not the case now that [TS]

  you know if it drives a display in terms of the spyware you can but yeah I think [TS]

  the other possibility though is that what if this crazy cool new thing is a [TS]

  rain iMac that position at the very high end and maybe has more RAM slots are too [TS]

  hard Rabbitohs like that you don't worry about driving to $100 cause it'll be in [TS]

  the same case right thing but then what is the reason why you can't get one of [TS]

  these panels into the existing IMAX presumably is mostly because of cost [TS]

  concerns that the iMac is not a very expensive computer even at the high end [TS]

  it still you know there's there's not a whole lot of a not a whole lot of room [TS]

  there to charge like an extra grand for an iMac [TS]

  in the current lineup at the current specs and buyers but if if the next [TS]

  macro solution for preferred pro buyers is just an iMac that has some amped-up [TS]

  specs and maybe a little baby like you know wanted to actually drive base and [TS]

  it took the whole but if it often somehow chauffeur-driven their [TS]

  particular IMAX is awful [TS]

  you know if if if they somehow address it with a modified I'm acted like I am [TS]

  pictured as being not just looking after 27 inch but with a high-resolution [TS]

  picture it being like you know larger thicker bigger and more substantially [TS]

  different from the current iMac but not as big and beefy as a Mac Pro there [TS]

  probably wouldn't be enough room in their retirement funds maybe would use [TS]

  it would just use the high-end desktop chips but no matter how to do that [TS]

  32 gigs of ram but maybe you have like a nicer GPU and more bays and new [TS]

  Thunderbolt like maybe that would be enough I would be by the computer [TS]

  because I want I want right now that badly that sounds like a really good [TS]

  high [TS]

  I'm acting like a macro someone just posted a nanotech article in this [TS]

  reminded me while I was like so yeah but what I said about thunderbolt is [TS]

  cramping like display part is alongside the two targeting channels I believe so [TS]

  the Thunderbolt to will have DisplayPort 1.2 will support for k video so it's not [TS]

  like the fact that Thunderbolt to is just gained yeah they're the two 10 [TS]

  Gigabit things is not actually relevant to the display part of it because I [TS]

  think the DisplayPort stuff runs alongside both of those channels someone [TS]

  saying no not this happens we don't have any research beforehand [TS]

  Casey but all these things like the two of the fact that it is plausible that we [TS]

  could have for k issue redneck his displays being driven by all that Apple [TS]

  laptops and whatever the mapper replacement is this year but it's also [TS]

  plausible that they just decided to wait it out until next year for the Renault [TS]

  does not displace [TS]

  20 gigabytes per channel carries both video and did so now they were somewhere [TS]

  around an hour and a half in do want to talk about 2007 barring a popular and he [TS]

  liked what what do you want to see in it you haven't talked much recently I [TS]

  should have brought up the macro said while back [TS]

  good way to see what was coming in iowa is to look at what the low-hanging fruit [TS]

  is and Apple will fix it so for example you know Notification Center is a great [TS]

  example background and copy and paste all very good very classic examples of [TS]

  let's get the low-hanging fruit and I think you would set a few months ago [TS]

  maybe even with us that there's a lot of low-hanging fruit left and i'd echoed [TS]

  that my in my blog post on the blog that doesn't exist and no one reads and [TS]

  Justin Williams actually comment added me on app.net that you know even though [TS]

  there's not a lot that is that is that annoys me about iOS is what I had said [TS]

  and the things that do I doubt Apple will fix Justin then said well you know [TS]

  what that could buy Apple in the butt in that they could get a little complacent [TS]

  and they could [TS]

  could end up getting left behind and I think that's a very interesting plane [TS]

  and so what do I want and I was seven I don't I don't even really know I expect [TS]

  to see some amount of you I change I don't think it'll be the sweeping oh my [TS]

  goodness everything is flat looks like Windows Phone 8 series 789 whatever it's [TS]

  called but I do think they'll be a difference [TS]

  brother that I'm not really sure what to expect I wish I had some sort of grand [TS]

  epiphany that I could share with everyone so I can catch cold during the [TS]

  keynote and say oh look at me I was so bright but I can't come up with anything [TS]

  that i think is really there were really in dire need of looking at the [TS]

  popularity of things like a callback URL and all these all these absent just [TS]

  launched other apps or or the do things with you I'll call back in creative ways [TS]

  it's very very clear that we are just starving for better interact [TS]

  communication and that you know we keep doing all these hacks because that's all [TS]

  we have basically look what people are truck are doing terrible hacks to [TS]

  accomplish and see if there's a good way that the OS could support that and some [TS]

  better so and I think the two big ones there are internal communication and [TS]

  periodic updates of a nap background updates his right now [TS]

  like you know you have things to do geofence updates which is just a [TS]

  terrible how I did it it's it's a terrible heck that's all you have if [TS]

  they could it could solve those two problems of apps updating in the [TS]

  background periodically and intercommunication that would be to [TS]

  major changes to the OS that would please many many users and developers [TS]

  alright so I'll buy it on in her application I think you're right about [TS]

  that I think they're going to have some sort of improvement I'm not convinced [TS]

  it's going to be hyper robust it'll probably disappoint a lot of nerds but I [TS]

  think it'll be a lot better [TS]

  but how do you suspect they're going to manage back grounding in such a way that [TS]

  it won't be the Android every app installs a daemon just because they can [TS]

  situation I really don't know you know i've had i've had some ideas over the [TS]

  years and how they might be able to do it and it's interesting if you look at [TS]

  one case where they do it which is newsstand and and newsstand apps are [TS]

  allowed to wake up in the background [TS]

  once a day by Maurice by getting a special push notification sent by their [TS]

  servers so you know more now glenn has a magazine publisher can can send a push [TS]

  notification to make the the application wake up in the background and do stuff [TS]

  for up to 10 minutes I think that system can be extended little bit tonight on [TS]

  new standard ABS if you tied to a push notification then it does restrict it on [TS]

  some level to just you know absent services that are big enough to have a [TS]

  push back end and it it as an economic cost me as a very small one but it adds [TS]

  a cost to the app creator that you know you can't just have every app wake up [TS]

  constantly for everything you know like there's gonna be some kind of weight and [TS]

  cost of sending all those push notifications and that then gives Apple [TS]

  a way to throttle it at the system level and at the policy level you can say you [TS]

  know right now newsstand being once a day is pretty infrequent and wouldn't [TS]

  release all the needs of most apps that do this but what if it's limited to me [TS]

  and then once an hour will be plenty you know you could even do it less than that [TS]

  and you know what if what if you have to like have some kind of good [TS]

  justification for it that's enforced at a preview level you know there's like [TS]

  maybe you could like you can apply again to certain tears of you know you have to [TS]

  justify be able to being hourly versus being daily or force being twice a day [TS]

  like there's there are ways they can do this and there's precedent for all that [TS]

  they've already done many of these things they've already introduced like [TS]

  certain you know half measures are limited measures [TS]

  and gather in in talking to various Apple people over the years on this [TS]

  exact topic and begging them to do something about it it sounds like it was [TS]

  always a topic of significant internal debate as to you know how to allow this [TS]

  kind of stuff whether to allow any can do things like you know only when it's [TS]

  on wifi or only when it's plugged in you know there's there's all sorts of things [TS]

  you can do to mitigate some of the downsides of a bunch of waking up here [TS]

  and there you can do it like only app Steve launched in the last week or so [TS]

  many things you can do to to limit it so it's not totally out of hand and maybe [TS]

  you know the internal debates about this maybe that is different now that I was [TS]

  different leadership you know it we don't know yet you know and you know Tim [TS]

  made those comments at AllThingsD about you know how they need to open up some [TS]

  things in the API's and they're gonna be doing that you know that's he didn't [TS]

  just throw that out there that was that was like a significant statement that I [TS]

  think we should pay attention to and I think I I don't think he meant that [TS]

  lightly it could have been about the fall types that could have an indirect [TS]

  communication there many of their many things that fall under the category of [TS]

  that big freeze about opening up those are all those are just to know which one [TS]

  it is sure to be all 39 just one thing for the background stuff Apple's amo so [TS]

  far and has served them well is anytime you have anything they want to be done [TS]

  in the background download applications do it without a single system service do [TS]

  it and that the application sort of register with us system services like [TS]

  this the bush notification 01 process that is you know responsible for doing [TS]

  all that and the applications in or register their intention I don't exceed [TS]

  200 push notifications work singled and process that you know what you want what [TS]

  you don't want to have his like the you know you don't have it and processes if [TS]

  you have an application so you have one process that applications ready to [TS]

  register with so almost any [TS]

  if you wanna go long as they give you just had a few had like it you don't you [TS]

  don't want to have that one application like load bundles [TS]

  applications only other applications going to crash the daemon process [TS]

  whatever is going to be said so you need to have some scenario where a single [TS]

  diamond process like everyone just do the arbitrary one single diamond process [TS]

  flows arbitrary code supplied by their applications doesn't crash when their [TS]

  code is crappy but interleaves their code in an efficient manner so when [TS]

  someone that I oh wait some other processes running and you only have one [TS]

  process like that's the idealized version hey everybody anyone could do [TS]

  anything in the background they want but all your work will be put through the [TS]

  single final and it will throw you in a little like you know like a little mini [TS]

  a little mini scheduler for background type task and it could apply policies it [TS]

  like you said once per day or whatever but that's the extreme where we don't [TS]

  care what kind of coaches do doesn't have to just be a specific set of API's [TS]

  you just take your upgrade to a run and we do it all within this one gatekeeper [TS]

  application that runs yourself but I think that is too extreme I think you're [TS]

  much more likely to have a more limited set of things you can do run by single [TS]

  process is just the the boundaries expand ever so slowly outward from what [TS]

  they are now writes a fence around what we can do now the pencil it would be a [TS]

  little more stuff you can do but still is already in new stand by the way did [TS]

  you know you can you have to push the waste is up in the background and then [TS]

  you have the acid download system which is you basically register URL handler [TS]

  and and then you know it you say you know this your hour this request and [TS]

  just let me know whenever you're done or the next time I'll a card does your code [TS]

  is your full flight jacket to run or just like a lot of a bundle insider up [TS]

  get the run there is no such differentiation and iOS today if you're [TS]

  a parent that all you can do whatever you want and so you get woken up for the [TS]

  10 minutes when the push comes in and you can do it everyone including [TS]

  download directly but then if you think you the URL download the ENK asset URL [TS]

  download or whatever and KS at something download then that goes into a [TS]

  background cue that your application doesn't own doesn't manage that you [TS]

  don't see that again until it's done with your appt is not get woken up when [TS]

  it's done just but next time you launch you can infect the results of it so if [TS]

  you're if you're woken up to do your thing and you start doing your thing and [TS]

  then you get killed because this [TS]

  pressure right you didn't get a chance to do your thing killed it the only the [TS]

  only thing that helping you is it if during that time you had registered [TS]

  something like that asset to go down over direct then you getting kills on a [TS]

  big deal because you've already registered user intent of this test I [TS]

  would like to perform I'm not gonna do it you do it up sorry I killed when you [TS]

  come back later to say hey that thing I told you about last time that you do [TS]

  that for me to get the result of these at the end and one of the things [TS]

  actually one of the things that kept bugging me whenever I would write things [TS]

  against this API is that the ENK acid download seems to go into a a single [TS]

  item at a time cue that seems to be possibly the same Qasab updates and [TS]

  another installation other like system downloads and so you might think you [TS]

  something and it might not finish for hours even if it would take a minute to [TS]

  download because a bunch of it that's what I like this is like a mini [TS]

  scheduler visit has all the same problem a schedule where you want you don't want [TS]

  to start low priority processes because that's like to know that there's a [TS]

  pathological case we're like a great schedule high-priority test only get [TS]

  service when you end up with some low protested would be accomplished in half [TS]

  a second if only we'd ever get up to the higher priority stuff so you have yet to [TS]

  some way to convert that part its ok we do need to give low priority when the [TS]

  chance to go or maybe you should like scheduling based on how long you think [TS]

  they gonna take and again late when things are and i oh wait you wanna do [TS]

  something else you know I just don't get all exactly the same process that the [TS]

  entire US has for you know for scheduling processes but instead of [TS]

  having always do it like this is all a final images to the Android thing that [TS]

  will actually let the OS kernel schedule the stuff for us and then everyone they [TS]

  can process as you kill your battery so that's that's the downside Apple's [TS]

  trying to to strike here and it sounds like the thing they have during news dan [TS]

  is like a really terrible OS kernel in terms of like oh you're blocked because [TS]

  you know something is someone's updating some games like 1.3 gigabytes and you [TS]

  just want to fork a URL oh sorry right but [TS]

  what else in Iowa 7 any witnesses because we do have to wrap up soon but [TS]

  silence the park the father absolutely crazy like I give them less than 50% [TS]

  chance but that's not totally crazy right and if if they read and pick if [TS]

  they would revamp an application that would also give them a good opportunity [TS]

  to rethink this whole URL scheme registration system and and maybe Thai [TS]

  Thai like a sequel of that into the new system and it would be an interesting it [TS]

  would be a convenient time to let you change the defaults we know why you're [TS]

  doing all this other stuff with having some kind of interactive registry in [TS]

  some kind of you know file association type thing you know it would be the time [TS]

  to do it if I could do it plus I know it sounds silly but as you guys pointed out [TS]

  what is the big room Presidio and in Moscone it's going to be bigger this [TS]

  year and it seems like every no I'm not being literal but it appears that a lot [TS]

  of the TBA to be announced [TS]

  sessions are gonna be happening Presidio and procedures can be bigger which [TS]

  infers I think you said Marco or implies excuse me that that there that there's [TS]

  going to be some really massive changes changes happening now but one thing I do [TS]

  want to want to temper their excitement for the for the whole TBA thing a little [TS]

  bit that typically what they do is they will mark accession TVA even if it's not [TS]

  talking about a whole new category of things but the market is TBA if its [TS]

  description even contains like one word of something that's not public yet they [TS]

  will just don't just do like to descriptions 14 before and after the [TS]

  keynote so if it mentions like what's new in iOS 7 will they haven't actually [TS]

  said the name iOS 7 anywhere yet they've been showing us the latest of iOS but [TS]

  they haven't named it yet and so that name iOS 7 calling it is probably still [TS]

  you know private under super apple and DA [TS]

  right exactly so like it might not it isn't a great correlation of amount of [TS]

  new stuff to number of TBS sessions it just means the new stuff is going to be [TS]

  a general interest [TS]

  like something ever in their care and sometimes therapy sessions toussaud's [TS]

  like you know your introduction texaco 25 the amazing new idea right and [TS]

  everybody that session later in the week both times in Presidio because everyone [TS]

  at the conference can benefit from that session I wanna make sure we could see [TS]

  it so it's not like that is not earth-shattering but it does require a [TS]

  big room twice do you want to give any WDC tips I see that our document here [TS]

  what you lookin my cursor is resting in the area on Monday morning everyone just [TS]

  sleep in because the point and line up early if you just like a clock you'll [TS]

  get your walk right into the kiddo no problem [TS]

  ya go you know if we had a little more time I could rattle off a bunch but you [TS]

  and I both Marco have put up blog post about this in the past and if we [TS]

  remember me we can put in our shown it's a lot of people to shortage of [TS]

  first-time buyers guides and tips for the conference and everything [TS]

  the one thing I think I'd like to say though is I believe I speak for the both [TS]

  of you guys and saying that if you are one of the people who is in San [TS]

  Francisco and you happen to run into one or all of us I definitely say hi but not [TS]

  during a session of course but if you're sitting next to us you can say hello [TS]

  that that that is exactly just don't interrupt the speaker but seriously [TS]

  please say hi cuz I i've been around and John at the last couple of years and [TS]

  they are always extremely excited to meet people I know I'm [TS]

  you save us who could possibly be an extrovert I like meeting I think you [TS]

  guys don't give yourself enough credit but but seriously it please say hi cuz [TS]

  we it's always fun to meet people that enjoy your work and I can actually sort [TS]

  of include myself in that this year it's pretty exciting [TS]

  so I definitely say hi if possible any tips from you too I think I think you [TS]

  know the case you know if you see anybody who you know from the internet [TS]

  or something [TS]

  go up and say hi because you know everyone everyone you know from the [TS]

  internet is not a celebrity and nobody ever in real life recognizes them and [TS]

  says oh hey love your work because nobody hurt but they do it when they're [TS]

  back in their places they live w ABC's always been like that because even when [TS]

  steve Jobs was there if you just plunk Steve Jobs down into a random place the [TS]

  United States and have him go into a store do you think the guy behind the [TS]

  counter would recognize them now maybe fifty 50 if you're lucky and he was the [TS]

  most famous person ever to pork for the new Apple Tim Cook probably can go [TS]

  anywhere in america outside you know the tech world not get recognized everyone [TS]

  else aw receives way way way below exactly so this is the this is the only [TS]

  as I said in the park as last year this is the only place where any of us are [TS]

  many levels of scare quotes famous so this is the one place where we get to [TS]

  get recognized on like the Apple store for me when they want so yeah we all [TS]

  enjoyed that and try not to let it go to our heads because we know that this is [TS]

  the only place on the planet where people are likely to even know who we [TS]

  are [TS]

  recognizes those nice and if if market can go up and introduced himself to [TS]

  forestall the new can certainly not to introduce yourself well then had to fire [TS]

  later so yeah you talk to that army guy didn't you out I do that said I was that [TS]

  was it that was that was the beginning of the end for you [TS]

  John and I say how does it also before we go [TS]

  we should probably explain the pre-roll song yes definitely [TS]

  so a very close friend of mine larry king who is not the one from CNN he [TS]

  decided to create not an alternative theme song because let's be honest will [TS]

  never replace our existing theme song by Jonathan man but he thought he'd write [TS]

  us a little tune and even know it kinda makes fun of me i i got a good kick out [TS]

  of it and so that that was the pre-roll so we appreciate and thank larry king [TS]

  who is at La King not at LA Kings which is which is she's not soccer hockey team [TS]

  but we appreciate him doing that will put a link to the song in the show notes [TS]

  is why he's allowed to make fun of you because he only knows you like he's [TS]

  friends with yes like somebody who only knows me as John can't make fun of you [TS]

  because that's that would just be mean but this guy actually just knows you [TS]

  exactly so so he gets a bye thanks a lot to our two sponsors that episode [TS]

  Squarespace but a square space.com and you can make your own website really [TS]

  easily and really great and then go to talks to you and x.org / ATP to get [TS]

  really great coffee fresh roasted and shipped to you on a regular basis you [TS]

  really can't do any better than that [TS]

  thanks a lot to screen space and time for sponsoring and thank you guys and [TS]

  we'll see each other next week at the conference [TS]

  now they show they didn't need me to begin accidental accidental John [TS]

  Casey [TS]

  it was a joke and you can show and if thats Casey list and a remarkable [TS]

  now I'm getting my skype call the podcast so I have to run their early [TS]

  phases insistent you can you can you can hang on you can hang out later [TS]

  right now we're talking about here right can we win the title jason has insisted [TS]

  that would actually be in the show that will be good will you could put it in [TS]

  the show how can you put on the crap about me in the shower now about him but [TS]

  he kidding [TS]

  almost every episode ends with him that's true well I am going to see you [TS]

  Sunday ya Sunday afternoon very excited actually that should be really fun I'm [TS]

  really looking forward to this week we want to have fun but no matter how [TS]

  another title no matter how hard we try we can't force him to eat dude I'm [TS]

  almost willing to say make that the title just a troll but the movie is even [TS]

  have fun and it wouldn't help at all [TS]