00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is connected episode 577 today's show is brought to you by score space gusto and fitbot i'm your ricky benjamin federico vittici and i'm joined as always well as most of the time really by stephen hackett hello stephen hello federico hi hey you good i am i am swell oh yes i like that
00:00:29 ◼ ► the sound of that yeah yeah and uh we're also joined by mike early took you long enough i'm just sitting over here like a spare part why are you nasty today i don't know man i'm not feeling very well so i think i'll take it out and everyone okay everyone's everyone's getting something you know okay okay everyone's getting something everybody got something in the pro show go to get connected pro.co and you can find out what that was mike is really mean today so he's bringing his energy into the show and i don't know what's gonna happen we'll see i've entered my
00:00:59 ◼ ► villain at her oh interesting okay so watch out i remember when you used to be the enthusiast that wasn't no yeah good times good times i'm blogging anymore
00:01:13 ◼ ► yeah look you take a week off here and there what are you gonna what are you gonna call the new blog the upset.net is that gonna be the new name something like that the hater the hater.net the hater yes that's it that is it maybe i'm just enthusiastic about hating on things sure
00:01:29 ◼ ► have you considered that yeah it's possible to tell you what though there's one person who's enthusiastic about something it's steven hackett about bathtubs
00:01:38 ◼ ► bathtub ipad follow-up yeah let's go pet wrote in the ipad mini is great for bath time exclamation point
00:01:47 ◼ ► i also have a shelf over the bath and my ipad mini sits on it using the excellent moffed dynamic folio have you guys come across this thing it looks
00:01:56 ◼ ► but i don't know what this is yes yeah not not digging it what why is there an iphone what is going how is there an iphone also on this case at the same time as an ipad it's it's origami
00:02:08 ◼ ► that's too much too much too much the only concern i have is touching it with wet fingers so i keep a towel nearby i haven't had any accidents yet the rest of what i'm going to read is a parenthetical
00:02:21 ◼ ► except i dropped airpods 4 in the bath killing the noise cancellation good reason to get the pro 3s instead
00:02:30 ◼ ► why do you need the airpods in the bathtub as well you know i don't i don't like that at all like i don't know if you need that no you need to you need to be aware of your surroundings in the bathtub
00:02:41 ◼ ► you know someone someone breaks in like case there's a car it's like you're on you're on the bike
00:02:46 ◼ ► yeah you just never know you never know i don't think you need the airpods i think you i think you'd be fine about them
00:02:59 ◼ ► but it's metallic obviously in some way because i can put an ipad in a smart folio on the bathtub and
00:03:08 ◼ ► it magnetically attaches to the bathtub now that is good so what i would say the best thing for you to do
00:03:13 ◼ ► is replace your bathtub are you sure that's a bathtub man are you sure you're not like in a freezer or
00:03:19 ◼ ► something i'm just in a little tin i just i don't know man i don't know what it's made of but it it
00:03:26 ◼ ► magnetically attaches they sold you a metal bathtub i'm not super happy about this bathtub though if i'm
00:03:32 ◼ ► being completely honest i mean i get it yeah the bathroom is relatively small and and we wanted to
00:03:37 ◼ ► have a shower and a bathtub like separate in it so we kind of had to get a smaller bathtub so i kind of
00:03:43 ◼ ► if i'm in the bathtub i i can't i have to kind of like sit an ankle because i can't otherwise i would
00:03:49 ◼ ► get stuck you know this is not made for big boys like me this so it's not a two-person tub uh i mean
00:03:55 ◼ ► it's it is two for two potentially two people but not me and someone else steven we spoke about this
00:04:07 ◼ ► like maybe one he asked me a few weeks ago hey do you think this is the kind of thing that co-founders
00:04:13 ◼ ► do you think this is the kind of thing that would be okay if there's no hr person do you think this
00:04:17 ◼ ► kind of thing he pitched it as like a vibe check about this topic i was like steven that's good
00:04:23 ◼ ► yeah that's nice i'm pleased that he asked you though yeah yeah hey good news what's up yeah go for it
00:04:30 ◼ ► good news hey guys good news hey guys are you ready for this yes watch zap is here no one's ever said it
00:04:39 ◼ ► like that how did what's up and watch together oh i just thought you mispronounced what's up
00:04:46 ◼ ► watch that's what it is right i think we've had this like it's like what's uh it's actually like
00:04:57 ◼ ► what's up what's up uh federico have you used whatsapp on your apple watch yet no but i noticed
00:05:02 ◼ ► that i got it because suddenly the notifications were much better and then oh interesting yeah and i was
00:05:08 ◼ ► like hey those are different now and there's a reply field that's nice and and then of course i
00:05:14 ◼ ► caught up on my rss and i understood why so uh it's much nicer like it's it's a it's it doesn't make me
00:05:21 ◼ ► sad every time i receive a whatsapp notification that i'm that my friends are not using my message
00:05:26 ◼ ► and uh i'm just using it now you can see your full conversations there's red receipts you can actually
00:05:32 ◼ ► go into a full combo and you can tap and type with the watch keyboard it's i gotta say it's very nice
00:05:39 ◼ ► it's functional uh not revolutionary but revolutionary is not what we wanted from whatsapp on the watch so
00:05:54 ◼ ► you know like i don't know what happens where you're like a company as big as whatsapp and you're like
00:06:04 ◼ ► yeah now now now's the time you know what i mean i mean instagram did the ipad finally yeah
00:06:11 ◼ ► i don't know an internal hackathon i don't know i honestly don't know like why now that actually
00:06:20 ◼ ► is a pretty good like this is like instead of making clips you know you you get someone to do
00:06:27 ◼ ► something that is appreciated in the long term which is a watch app they banded together to make the watch
00:06:34 ◼ ► app is that like a watch band yeah oh you're very um i'm on it on heavy today you are you've you're
00:06:49 ◼ ► federico did you get that 17 pro max yet yes sir yes i have been testing it uh i have been carrying
00:06:55 ◼ ► two phones actually funny story i when i got it last week i was like oh yes i'm gonna put my sim card
00:07:01 ◼ ► in it because i have a spare sim card that i used to use with my with my with my pixel fold and i spent
00:07:09 ◼ ► a good couple of hours going crazy because i thought i had lost my sim card i was like oh man
00:07:17 ◼ ► i lost my sim card now i gotta go file like a like a report at the police station to say that this is
00:07:23 ◼ ► missing because what if somebody got my sim card and started doing shady stuff with my phone number
00:07:28 ◼ ► and after a couple of hours i thought i thought only after two hours i realized actually let me grab my
00:07:36 ◼ ► pixel fold and double check and the pixel fold was connected to cellular and i opened the sim card
00:07:42 ◼ ► slot and it was empty and only then it dawned on me that i was using an e-sim i am still not used to
00:07:50 ◼ ► the idea of e-sims so anyway yeah um been carrying these two phones the 17 pro max from apple and my own
00:07:57 ◼ ► iphone air for the past week and and i wrote in the document and i have thoughts and they're the next bullet
00:08:02 ◼ ► items as heavy um yeah that that is my thought that is that is you have definitely gone for for both ends
00:08:10 ◼ ► of the spectrum yeah uh it is quite a shock honestly um to go from the iphone air to the 17 pro max and
00:08:18 ◼ ► doing the back and forth during the day is quite the shock uh i gotta say i don't dislike the industrial
00:08:26 ◼ ► look as much as i thought i would i think it looks nice they got me the blue color which i think is
00:08:31 ◼ ► excellent oh what do you think about the two-tone i like it i like it a lot sylvia doesn't i like it i
00:08:38 ◼ ► like the texture of the of the aluminum i have to say yeah the aluminum feels good yeah aluminium oh god
00:08:46 ◼ ► why did i say that sorry yeah yeah it's okay for federico to say it's not okay for me to say
00:08:58 ◼ ► gun rights all the things yeah yeah first amendment you know i'm you know if i have to do a citizenship
00:09:06 ◼ ► test i'm ready you know he's ready he's ready he said all the good amendments american culture yeah
00:09:11 ◼ ► yeah yeah yeah eagles you know uh yep yes yes i'm i'm good to go for america yeah yeah uh anyway
00:09:17 ◼ ► what was i saying oh yes it's a bit of a shock to go from from the pro max to the air and yes
00:09:28 ◼ ► i love america i love america he does he does isn't that a song i love america and america loves me by the
00:09:36 ◼ ► 1975s i think so i expect there are many songs called i love america more now than ever really
00:09:43 ◼ ► yes yes it's a booming industry it is it's it's quite timely um so here's the thing look i enjoyed
00:09:52 ◼ ► the fact that the battery of the 17 pro max never runs out yeah i have thoroughly enjoyed the fact that i
00:09:59 ◼ ► can take pictures with many zoom lenses uh you know all the all the all the camera system is great
00:10:06 ◼ ► but i pick up my 17 pro max and it does not elicit the same happy feeling that the iphone air despite
00:10:14 ◼ ► its many compromises does still after a month more than a month on a daily basis yeah so i'm gonna write
00:10:22 ◼ ► about this i have to run more tests for things like the battery and and cellular and local ai and
00:10:29 ◼ ► all those things that i want to test but um i can give you the conclusion already i'm sticking with the air
00:10:35 ◼ ► um um um um yeah i mean i think it's a great phone i have gotten so spoiled by the air in a month
00:10:44 ◼ ► there's no going back so a lot of people thought oh yes we got you teach you as soon as you get the 17 pro max
00:10:53 ◼ ► you're gonna flip-flop like last year well i mean the the evidence that they have is is is strong
00:10:59 ◼ ► yeah but i guess i guess the story here is that the iphone air is a much better third phone or fourth phone
00:11:08 ◼ ► depending on you look at it in the lineup than the plus ever yeah well i mean the iphone air is a
00:11:13 ◼ ► better package than just the fact that the plus was blue yeah like that was that was the reason
00:11:18 ◼ ► that you like that one is that it was bright blue but yeah that that will wear off sooner than the
00:11:23 ◼ ► benefits of the air like having a big screen that's so thin and light is is very appealing i enjoy using
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00:13:16 ◼ ► and all of relay so 26.1 is out on all the os's um including um tv os vision os uh but really we're here to talk
00:13:30 ◼ ► about ios ipad os and mac os um you know um now there's a there is a there's a main reason i think why a lot of
00:13:41 ◼ ► people will be interested in 26.1 and that is the tweaking of liquid glass um on on the iphone
00:13:49 ◼ ► especially uh we spoke about this before you can now choose between the two options tinted which is
00:13:54 ◼ ► not a good name uh which is the more opaque version of liquid glass that you can enable in settings under
00:14:00 ◼ ► display and brightness of all places um and you can choose between twinted tinted and clear
00:14:06 ◼ ► ipad people will likely care about the return of slide over which we also spoke about you can have
00:14:12 ◼ ► one slide over window that coexists with the new multitasking system of ipad os 26 and you can have
00:14:18 ◼ ► another slide over window if you're using an external display so it's one slide over per display and there's
00:14:23 ◼ ► also the improvements to the local capture feature if you are one of those people that wants to record
00:14:27 ◼ ► audio video or both on an ipad um and on mac os mac people will probably care about the new clipboard
00:14:36 ◼ ► history options for spotlight on the mac where you can now choose steven correct me if i'm wrong
00:14:40 ◼ ► what is what are the new time thresholds for keeping your clipboard history i think it's now up to a
00:14:47 ◼ ► month or something up to a month now right yeah i've missed that that's really cool yeah here we go
00:15:06 ◼ ► oh okay that's still not very long eight but hey you know we're just fine people are freaking out
00:15:13 ◼ ► no i know what i would like yeah is for spotlight to work oh you having that problem oh yeah i gave up
00:15:20 ◼ ► i went back to alfred like after like two seconds can i like yeah i did the whole thing i did the
00:15:26 ◼ ► thing i just did you reboot yes okay because that was the thing that locked in locked it in for me
00:15:33 ◼ ► and then it finally worked i wonder 26 have you tried it on 26.1 no because i wonder if maybe 0.1
00:15:39 ◼ ► because it seemed like this was a problem that was pretty prevalent like just like things just not
00:15:43 ◼ ► showing up in spotlight and i wonder if maybe i don't know maybe that maybe that would help maybe
00:15:49 ◼ ► yeah um there are other smaller features like there's a whole bunch of new keyboard shortcuts
00:15:55 ◼ ► on the ipad oh have i got some stuff to say about this oh you have thoughts about oh i'm very upset
00:16:01 ◼ ► very upset yes that's in character for today okay yeah i'm very upset very upset so the whole time
00:16:10 ◼ ► that i've been using ipad os 26 i do i want to leave an app i do two things i hit command q nothing
00:16:21 ◼ ► they added a command q shortcut now that will also close windows but as a stage manager user
00:16:31 ◼ ► something weird happens so if i have if i open an app and i hit command w the app i don't know what
00:16:39 ◼ ► happens it's closed i don't know if they quit but it doesn't show up as available for me in the stage
00:16:44 ◼ ► manager side stage thing you know like where it's got your previews of apps on the side
00:16:48 ◼ ► but if i select command q it closes the window but the app is still available in the stage manager
00:16:55 ◼ ► section which is like the exact opposite way around that i would imagine command q and command w to work
00:17:00 ◼ ► wait what no what you know you've got a little preview of apps on the side yeah this this trip
00:17:05 ◼ ► yeah they're the apps that you like have open as such like you've not quit them right if i hit command q
00:17:12 ◼ ► okay the app still shows up there wait that sounds like a bug but if i hit command w it doesn't oh i've
00:17:19 ◼ ► got a couple of bugs here i think there's a bug so another one is pre prior to now if i had apps open
00:17:25 ◼ ► and i hit command h it took me to my home screen okay now it just minimizes the current window into
00:17:33 ◼ ► the stage area so if i have like if i have like three apps open in like a stage and i hit command h the
00:17:39 ◼ ► one that i'm currently looking at just goes away but it goes to the side and then i hit it again and then
00:17:44 ◼ ► the other one will join it and then i hit it again and then the other one will join it and then if i hit it
00:17:49 ◼ ► the fourth time i'll go to the home screen but globe h does what i'm expecting which is to take
00:17:56 ◼ ► me to the home screen but i just can't ever i really struggle to remember the fact that the globe key
00:18:02 ◼ ► exists as a keyboard shock shortcut that i can use do you know what i mean like i always forget about it
00:18:10 ◼ ► to me all keyboard shortcuts are done with command like i never think about it as a uh a modifier in that
00:18:17 ◼ ► way so yeah it's a not a great time if you're if you're a stage manager user now i know that there's
00:18:22 ◼ ► only dozens of us which is probably why this is happening um but it is happening uh and it's and
00:18:28 ◼ ► it's really annoying for me so i'm expecting that these are bugs um and i am just now putting them
00:18:35 ◼ ► out into the world by saying them on this podcast yeah this probably happens because they're not maybe
00:18:40 ◼ ► internally they're not really using stage manager oh absolutely not yeah no absolutely not no i know why
00:18:46 ◼ ► this is happening because i'm using two window management systems concurrently but they allow
00:18:52 ◼ ► me to do that so i am doing it uh and but i think yes that they've made some changes to keyboard shortcuts
00:18:57 ◼ ► and the way that they are interpreted by stage manager is like quite broken okay uh can i mention a
00:19:05 ◼ ► couple of other things in 26.1 nobody wants to engage with me no no no no one we're no one cares
00:19:13 ◼ ► hang on look man those are your thoughts this is what it's like as a stage manager user in the world
00:19:18 ◼ ► right no one will engage with you i i look i did my time with stage manager okay that's true that's true
00:19:24 ◼ ► so this is all you now man you're on your own i'm sorry um i wanted to mention the new slide
00:19:32 ◼ ► to stop for alarms on the lock screen now mike as a notoriously difficult person to wake up in the
00:19:40 ◼ ► morning um do you like this interaction i have not experienced it because i i deal with my alarms via
00:19:53 ◼ ► okay so let us know if you have any follow-up yeah if it comes up i'll i'll i'll report back
00:20:01 ◼ ► uh but this is fun because it's kind of reminiscent of the old slide to unlock interaction from from the
00:20:06 ◼ ► old iphones so that's cute well also my kind of my my world of waking up has kind of changed
00:20:12 ◼ ► significantly uh to how it was before like this morning i was awoken uh by adina bringing my child
00:20:18 ◼ ► close to my face and she grabbed my face so that was how i woke up this morning which i like a lot more
00:20:23 ◼ ► than alarms do you know that uh that i also actually stopped using alarms because i have a foolproof system
00:20:29 ◼ ► what is it my dog wakes me up in the morning now right every single day they have this perfect
00:20:36 ◼ ► biological clock where every morning at 8 a.m she ginger wakes me up because she needs to eat
00:20:46 ◼ ► she woke up at seven instead of eight and i was a very sad sad man on that morning um and i wanted to
00:20:55 ◼ ► mention the option to for disabling the camera swipe on the lock screen yeah i did that immediately
00:21:03 ◼ ► yeah yeah you can now disable lock screen swipe to open camera it's a new option in uh settings camera
00:21:09 ◼ ► that you can turn off if you don't want it anymore and uh if you guys are interested there's a new uh
00:21:15 ◼ ► there's a new toggle in settings for rapid security responses uh i know steven you as a journalist
00:21:21 ◼ ► obviously you are one of the people who are you know yeah subject to cyber security attacks
00:21:28 ◼ ► nine to five matt keeps trying to break into my phone i wish they didn't stop yeah they want the
00:21:32 ◼ ► devon thing yeah they want the database they do uh i i did i was trying to find a link i can uh you
00:21:38 ◼ ► know i'll give them your passcode for six hundred dollars i hear that that's the that's the money
00:21:42 ◼ ► don't don't open that can of worms i don't even know what that oh no think about it you know what it is
00:21:51 ◼ ► for six hundred dollars if you can't remember you have to shave your eyebrows oh god yeah the uh
00:21:59 ◼ ► yeah i did see a i did see a thing i'm trying to dig it up i can't find it maybe someone discord can
00:22:05 ◼ ► find it where someone like very slowly did the slide to turn off the alarm and the orange like reflection
00:22:14 ◼ ► and the liquid glass isn't dynamic it's not real like because the the orange snooze button fades and
00:22:22 ◼ ► the reflection doesn't fade it's like come on if you're going to spend all this time building it at
00:22:27 ◼ ► least do it oh i have a very different come on reaction to that do it correctly my reaction is
00:22:34 ◼ ► come on this would never happen if steve jobs was alive no this doesn't matter this is not a thing
00:22:39 ◼ ► that matters at all right this is like the people who were getting upset about the the clock thing
00:22:47 ◼ ► that ends you know it's not actually a wheel like you can just get to the end of the clock thing yeah
00:22:51 ◼ ► yeah yeah stuff is hard to make all right sometimes you just got to do your best and of all the all
00:22:56 ◼ ► the places to not worry about the ui it's the alarm because everyone's got their eyes closed
00:23:00 ◼ ► you know that's the area that you can cheap out on uh slide over obviously came came i've tried out
00:23:07 ◼ ► that it's an interesting implementation i don't particularly like it like i'm not mad about it
00:23:14 ◼ ► but like i i don't i don't really like it like the way it looks and stuff that it's like this kind of
00:23:19 ◼ ► like shimmery window that that floats over my other apps uh it's happy i'm happy to have it for when i
00:23:25 ◼ ► need it but like it really i don't know it kind of looks the way that it is which is this was an
00:23:31 ◼ ► afterthought like it very much looks and feels like an afterthought for the operating system because
00:23:36 ◼ ► nothing else looks like this like no other windows have this like glassy barrier around the
00:23:42 ◼ ► outside you know what i mean like it's just got like an odd it's just odd but it's there i guess if
00:23:48 ◼ ► you need it yeah it's a little weird but obviously the big thing we dimensioned it's up is the uh the
00:23:55 ◼ ► option to tint your liquid glass and i want what are we all doing what's going on well what how are we
00:24:02 ◼ ► got our phone set up clear clear baby yeah exactly right yeah i'm happy what that we're fighting this
00:24:09 ◼ ► fight because you know what you know what it looks good i don't want to tell you it looks good light
00:24:15 ◼ ► mode or dark mode for you too oh in general light during the day dark at night what's doing said yes
00:24:22 ◼ ► okay i'm dark all the time um but yeah i i think the liquid glass look good like i i have the more i've
00:24:30 ◼ ► used it the more i like it i've gotten used to it and i enjoy it like i wouldn't want to
00:24:33 ◼ ► like i've seen screenshots of how how it looks and like i understand what i understand why they've done it
00:24:39 ◼ ► but also i don't think you need to do it and i don't know about you like i assume that i mean i i
00:24:44 ◼ ► updated my phone to the public release and like it didn't prompt me to do this but and that was like
00:24:51 ◼ ► the last question that i had it's like will the phone ask me what i want to do um it doesn't seem
00:24:58 ◼ ► like they've added that in um at all so yeah it's gonna be interesting because this is the release
00:25:05 ◼ ► my expectation right this is the release that actually apple pushes to people um instead of
00:25:11 ◼ ► like people requesting to update probably and so this is the first one that they would do it on
00:25:17 ◼ ► right is maybe an easier thing to say um so it'll be it'll be interesting to see how it rolls out
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00:26:59 ◼ ► 26.1 is not the only new version of ios 26.2 is here yeah let's go in beta uh i'm off the beta train
00:27:12 ◼ ► i accidentally stayed on it for 26.1 so that's the best way to get a bear when i brings them
00:27:20 ◼ ► accidentally like your phone that's the way to apply to software update what uh anyway anyways uh 26.2
00:27:28 ◼ ► brings some more things including more liquid glass changes uh this is from uh mac rumors there is a new
00:27:37 ◼ ► on the so on the lock screen customization you have that panel where you choose your font
00:27:41 ◼ ► and your color of your text and that sort of thing now there's been glass or solid uh and now there's a
00:27:49 ◼ ► slider on one end is clear the other end is frosted and you can choose exactly how glassy your time is
00:27:56 ◼ ► i think that's nice they actually did the glass slider they did we imagine months ago i actually
00:28:03 ◼ ► that's not what you think yeah exactly i actually think i actually feel like this is the slider that i
00:28:08 ◼ ► also want in settings instead of just clear and and tinted like give me the same slider in settings
00:28:15 ◼ ► and the the two extremes can be called clear and tinted but let me have something in between
00:28:21 ◼ ► you know like a slider what what i want them to do for the lock screen is make the like dynamic time
00:28:28 ◼ ► option for any of the fonts not just the one font yeah you know like the clock moving up and down
00:28:34 ◼ ► because i like i like the my favorite of the options is the one that i think is um new york the new york
00:28:40 ◼ ► font right where it's it's their uh serif font and but that doesn't move up and down when you have
00:28:46 ◼ ► like the the pictures and stuff so i would like it if they did that but i might i might switch over to
00:28:51 ◼ ► it now i can have it also frosty we'll see but uh yeah it's it's i like it's weird to me that it's
00:28:57 ◼ ► still adding this stuff uh but at the same time i think it's good the reminders app has gained
00:29:04 ◼ ► integration with the new alarm kit uh feature of ios 26 where basically you can now associate an alarm
00:29:11 ◼ ► to a reminder so that when a reminder is due instead of just getting a notification you will also get
00:29:16 ◼ ► the full screen alarm that goes off on the lock screen anywhere really regardless of which focus
00:29:22 ◼ ► modes you have active um we had seen and spoke about previously about third-party apps that implemented
00:29:29 ◼ ► the same idea like task managers that took advantage of alarm kit to integrate with the with to to be able
00:29:35 ◼ ► to to fire off a more prominent notification and now reminders is doing the same and i think it's an
00:29:42 ◼ ► excellent idea and i obviously don't recommend enabling this option for all reminders um especially
00:29:50 ◼ ► if you create a lot of reminders on a daily basis but it's good to have for like uh important stuff
00:29:54 ◼ ► that you don't want to miss yeah yeah this is a nice feature this is like i've i was a little perplexed
00:30:01 ◼ ► of alarm kit like when they announced it like i couldn't really get my head around why this needed to
00:30:06 ◼ ► exist um but this is actually a really good use case for this feature i think of like there is that one
00:30:13 ◼ ► task that has to happen and you can make sure that you know it because it's going to absolutely take
00:30:20 ◼ ► over your phone you know yeah the sleep score yeah yeah what's going on here steven i don't use this
00:30:28 ◼ ► so i don't either i use the excellent application sleep plus plus sure well i can tell you then what
00:30:38 ◼ ► they did was uh they have they have like a classification right between zero and a hundred
00:30:43 ◼ ► and there was text labels for each of these score brackets previously they had the top rank that you
00:30:50 ◼ ► could get was excellent they have now removed that word so now the highest score that you can get
00:30:57 ◼ ► from a like a label perspective is very high um which is makes a lot more sense i think because
00:31:05 ◼ ► a high score does not mean you feel like you've slept well sometimes like the score is based on a bunch
00:31:12 ◼ ► of factors and for apple the factors that they're scoring on are actually not that um not that good
00:31:17 ◼ ► really um they're not pulling in all of the potential data that they could from some of the vital stuff
00:31:23 ◼ ► is my understanding um and so now the highest score that you can get is very high and they have kind
00:31:28 ◼ ► of refactored the points to account for the fact that they have only five definitions rather than six
00:31:36 ◼ ► yeah it's simpler i think it's uh easier to understand and a little bit less uh over the top i mean
00:31:46 ◼ ► yeah i think a lot of people certainly what i saw comments of like i have this really high score in
00:31:51 ◼ ► sleep score but i don't feel like it and part of that is i think that the the the weighting of the
00:31:57 ◼ ► points was wrong but also like you said that they're not it's not a complete picture like some um excellent
00:32:04 ◼ ► third-party apps uh do and um so yeah i think it's more in line maybe with how people actually feel but
00:32:49 ◼ ► um and the transcripts are very good like we spoke about them a lot of the time like apple's doing some
00:32:53 ◼ ► clever stuff um about like looking at things contextually like it gets my name right for
00:32:59 ◼ ► example the spelling my name it gets right um refer to it which i think is very good um they are now
00:33:04 ◼ ► using they are now clearly using these these uh transcripts for for uh for other features
00:33:24 ◼ ► the chapter in the mp3 file which is the best way to do it because you have the most control
00:33:31 ◼ ► uh but a lot of podcast producers don't do this because they have automatic ad insertion and that
00:33:37 ◼ ► just won't work with mp3 uh chapters at all because the the audio host is going to be splicing up
00:33:43 ◼ ► the audio to put the ads in and the ads change in duration they're also recommending that people put
00:33:49 ◼ ► them in the rss feed using rss tags or in the description just kind of like time codes again this
00:33:55 ◼ ► can get a bit wonky with um dynamic ad insertion but some people still do it anyway and you might
00:34:02 ◼ ► have to listen to 10 seconds of an ad more than you expect or something like that but it's a way
00:34:06 ◼ ► so apple is encouraging podcast producers to do this like that you know if you are signed up to apple
00:34:11 ◼ ► podcast connect which is how you sort of like put a podcast on the apple podcast app they send an email
00:34:17 ◼ ► to everyone kind of like talking through these changes and they encourage all of this but if you
00:34:22 ◼ ► don't do this they will now create chapters for you automatically and the expectation is they are
00:34:31 ◼ ► analyzing the transcript and cutting it up in certain ways this is just what spotify does so
00:34:38 ◼ ► spotify ignores everyone they don't all the chapters in spotify podcasts are chapters that spotify have
00:34:47 ◼ ► created they don't pay attention to anyone's uh distinction for chapters they just make their
00:34:53 ◼ ► own one of the reasons that they do this is because um spotify take your mp3 file and rehost it so
00:35:01 ◼ ► they're doing whatever they do to it um it's just like a pocket as a podcast producer so apple's now doing
00:35:06 ◼ ► this too so in theory all podcasts will have chapters now in apple podcasts one way or another
00:35:13 ◼ ► so either they will observe yours in the way that you have provided them and if you don't it will fall
00:35:19 ◼ ► back to transcripts although i think you can opt out of that too though so in theory they will do this
00:35:27 ◼ ► unless you've explicitly told them not to i think is that right steven is there a an opt-out i think you
00:35:34 ◼ ► mentioned this to me or maybe you were talking about something else that they're doing i believe
00:35:38 ◼ ► that there is um apple has sent an email out to uh people with podcast connect yeah so i found the
00:35:47 ◼ ► email steven you can manage settings for these features including opting out in apple podcast
00:35:51 ◼ ► connect says in an email that the apple podcast team sent out to everybody who subscribe so yes in
00:35:55 ◼ ► theory you could say no to this if you wanted to but i don't think most people will i think you have
00:36:02 ◼ ► to be very specific of a of a podcast producer to be like i don't want any chapters at all that i don't
00:36:09 ◼ ► know why you why someone would feel that way but maybe they would i don't know um as well as the chapters
00:36:15 ◼ ► thing uh other podcasts that you mention in your show could be highlighted as like go subscribe to this
00:36:29 ◼ ► yeah that's interesting isn't it as a as a thing to do so there's a i listened to the waveform podcast
00:36:39 ◼ ► which is mkbhd's podcast and there was a mention them by name sorry i listened to a podcast by a youtube
00:36:45 ◼ ► creator and uh they were they were they were talking about how every time they mentioned nintendo switch
00:36:51 ◼ ► two it would increase it seemed to increase their watch time or like they're like how many people
00:36:56 ◼ ► found so they would just keep saying it in every episode like for a similar reason because there was
00:37:00 ◼ ► so much hype about that when it was on its way to being released so they'll somehow will they i guess
00:37:05 ◼ ► they will highlight they will use they will use transcripts in some apple intelligence model to find
00:37:11 ◼ ► these and then highlight these podcasts as a thing like or episodes for you then to go and subscribe to
00:37:15 ◼ ► an apple podcast which i think is really cool as a feature and then also if you if you link to
00:37:25 ◼ ► anything featured in an apple service there it is music or news a link will appear at the time stamp you
00:37:32 ◼ ► provide them so like hey why don't you just put a link to an apple news article and put a time stamp
00:37:39 ◼ ► in and then we'll pop up a little thing on the on the playing screen also they are going to be doing
00:37:46 ◼ ► automatic linking via the transcripts too so if they can see something say it's a song say you're talking
00:37:53 ◼ ► about a song it is very likely that that will pop up on the apple podcasts kind of like playing screen
00:38:01 ◼ ► for you to go and listen to that song in apple music yeah it's fine or whatever the thing that i
00:38:08 ◼ ► immediately thought about with the auto linking is like what if your podcasts or basically your entire
00:38:14 ◼ ► company of podcasts have very generic names like there are other connected podcasts right but it will
00:38:21 ◼ ► be done by searching like search waiting right they'll just take their best guess yeah yeah yeah that's what
00:38:28 ◼ ► i don't love it's like i link to something in my show notes because i want to point my listener's
00:38:35 ◼ ► attention to it or have it as a source for what we're talking about yep and i want to do that and
00:38:40 ◼ ► so if i talk about the most recent episode of app stories i want to have a link to that you know and
00:38:46 ◼ ► the the namespace pollution like they're inviting that namespace pollution problem of podcasting
00:38:52 ◼ ► into the show notes and that i don't love what apple would tell you though right in that
00:38:58 ◼ ► regard is well we give you the opportunity to give us time stamped based links sure so if you hate it
00:39:04 ◼ ► that much do that but who wants to do that yeah that's a lot of work i mean all right let me
00:39:11 ◼ ► refit there are people that want to do that right because for all of these features sound great to me
00:39:17 ◼ ► by and large right like the idea that some of this stuff like i think it's podcast discovery is a problem
00:39:22 ◼ ► right it is having the ability that when you're talking about a podcast episode for somebody to just
00:39:26 ◼ ► be looking at their phone and immediately go to that episode to add it to their queue like that is
00:39:32 ◼ ► great right like for all of these features are in theory interesting features like anytime apple's
00:39:38 ◼ ► doing smart stuff with podcasts which isn't undermining undermining the medium in any way which
00:39:43 ◼ ► is not what they're doing here i think it's good the problem for us is a very small percentage
00:39:49 ◼ ► relative of our audience uses apple podcasts so there just isn't that much of a push for us to do it
00:39:56 ◼ ► but if you are a more you know mass market podcast this stuff probably is something you would participate
00:40:03 ◼ ► in like more more actively because it's those people aren't doing chapters now they're not doing
00:40:08 ◼ ► chapters now they're not doing links now right like it's part of that is the dynamic ad insertion
00:40:15 ◼ ► complication part of that is that that's not the culture of podcast like we came up in a culture of
00:40:21 ◼ ► podcast where show notes was really important we were the minority like yeah the vast majority of
00:40:27 ◼ ► podcasts i listen to even other tech podcasts don't have show notes that are any good right well they say
00:40:34 ◼ ► there's something that's going to be in them and they're just not there yeah it's just right the care
00:40:38 ◼ ► isn't put into it but like i like that this is encouraging all of that stuff sure right which is
00:40:44 ◼ ► nice so so are you going to opt out your shows no yeah i don't think so okay i want to see how it
00:40:50 ◼ ► actually comes together like it doesn't the chapter thing doesn't bother me because i'm providing
00:40:59 ◼ ► chapters by and large for all of my shows um and the shows that i don't put my own chapters in it
00:41:04 ◼ ► doesn't bother me that they will do it right i'm fine with that um the links thing i want to see how
00:41:11 ◼ ► it works like it it doesn't if i mention the new sabrina carpenter album it doesn't bother me that
00:41:18 ◼ ► apple's going to put an apple music no link there no that's like i don't care about that and like
00:41:23 ◼ ► similarly if i say i really enjoyed the most recent episode of mac power users like it doesn't bother
00:41:29 ◼ ► me that they're going to put mac power users it doesn't bother me that they're going to put a link
00:41:33 ◼ ► there to that either because i've already said it the problem is as people are saying what if i say i
00:41:39 ◼ ► really hate and can't stand anything that those guys over at mac power users have to say about
00:41:45 ◼ ► anything you know and then the link pops up but then that's my own problem right i shouldn't talk
00:41:49 ◼ ► about things i don't like i should be enthusiastic we've already established that at the beginning of the
00:41:52 ◼ ► episode yeah so yeah i always just like it when they're doing stuff to apple podcasts right that's
00:41:59 ◼ ► like yeah that's good it's not undermining people and like they're i always want them to put effort
00:42:05 ◼ ► into this um into this app because apple doing what it does stops the industry from going to some
00:42:15 ◼ ► places that i don't want it to go into absolutely and so i i want them to continue to do things that
00:42:21 ◼ ► are interesting um and so i'm happy to to see these features being added yeah so 26.2 you know
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00:45:16 ◼ ► so we got a report from i would have said the sheriff um the wizard yeah steven very rightly
00:45:28 ◼ ► puts in rumor roundup the wizard mark german yeah but mark german published last night yesterday uh a
00:45:44 ◼ ► a 1.2 trillion parameter model made by google for apple that's going to run on private cloud compute
00:45:53 ◼ ► and it's going to power the new siri in 2026 it's launching in the spring and apple is going to give
00:46:00 ◼ ► google 1 billion dollars a year to use this model and uh there are many interesting details here and i
00:46:14 ◼ ► after evaluating a whole bunch of models from uh open ai from anthropic and from google apple decided to
00:46:23 ◼ ► uh launch this siri overhaul uh targeting right now ios 26.4 in the spring uh the siri overhaul that
00:46:33 ◼ ► will have the previously delayed features from apple intelligence so the on-screen awareness
00:46:40 ◼ ► the personalized context and the ability to perform in-app actions those were originally showcased
00:46:46 ◼ ► in wwc24 they were delayed uh the earlier this year this will come in 26.4 uh and this new siri will
00:46:57 ◼ ► also have according to a previous german report from september will have some world knowledge
00:47:04 ◼ ► capabilities with the ability to provide users more answers that are grounded in world knowledge
00:47:10 ◼ ► and web search integration that was a separate uh report from uh from german saying that apple was
00:47:16 ◼ ► targeting the launch of this product competing with the likes of chat gpt search and perplexity it sounds
00:47:25 ◼ ► like um google was able to cut a deal with apple to give them a pretty large uh custom google gemini model
00:47:33 ◼ ► that will power the planning and summarization features of siri apple will still continue using
00:47:43 ◼ ► some of their own existing on-device models this is where we need to have a whole conversation about
00:47:49 ◼ ► how this will actually work in a minute um but the backbone of of this new siri will actually be a
00:47:57 ◼ ► white label version of google gemini um uh gruman is saying that apple is still thinking that they can
00:48:05 ◼ ► eventually release a model of their own of comparable size so a huge apple intelligence model that runs in the
00:48:13 ◼ ► cloud with uh comparable performance and knowledge uh they're still working on it but right now rather
00:48:20 ◼ ► than wait until apple intelligence is good enough they are going to rely on a third party and they are going
00:48:26 ◼ ► to rely on google that is the article i have thoughts and i have questions and uh it's it's a it's a this to me is the most
00:48:36 ◼ ► this is for me the most interesting story of the year um and i it it makes uh it makes a part of my
00:48:45 ◼ ► brain light up in a way that hasn't in a long time like rainbow lights around the edges of your brain
00:48:51 ◼ ► yeah that's a that's that requires medical attention right it does yeah you're in a situation
00:48:58 ◼ ► yes yes uh no uh so i wrote about this on mac stories i actually blogged about it last night and then i fell
00:49:04 ◼ ► asleep and so i finished it this morning perfect it's a good way to blog it is uh trying to make sense of
00:49:10 ◼ ► what this rumor means and sort of trying to piece together all the information that we got so far
00:49:14 ◼ ► almost exclusively for mark german at bloomberg i wrote about this i am guessing that you guys read
00:49:22 ◼ ► the story and that you have questions yeah i mean i have some like comments on it too which a billion
00:49:29 ◼ ► dollars a year doesn't sound like a lot of money for this it's crazy cheap it's it's this is the kind
00:49:34 ◼ ► of deal that adiq cuts for apple with google like it has adiq all over it there was a report like me and
00:49:41 ◼ ► jason spoke about this on monday because there was a report last week that they didn't go with
00:49:46 ◼ ► anthropic and it was a money thing and that concerned me and it still kind of concerns me a little bit
00:49:51 ◼ ► that they went with money over power like because they referenced like apple felt that anthropics models
00:49:57 ◼ ► did a better job but google's were cheaper now hearing that number i'm like oh okay it was a
00:50:05 ◼ ► significant difference because like i've got to assume anthropic we're asking for a lot more money
00:50:09 ◼ ► because a billion dollars a year is nothing when realistically apple's probably not going
00:50:15 ◼ ► to pay google any money right but like this will just come off the top of all the money
00:50:20 ◼ ► what's a billion dollars between friends you know they're already like there's already like 20 was
00:50:27 ◼ ► it 20 billion a year going to them like and honestly that's probably there is probably billions of
00:50:33 ◼ ► dollars flowing backwards and forwards between these companies all the time because like you know
00:50:37 ◼ ► if they reference later on that we're not going to see like siri powered by google gemini like apple's
00:50:43 ◼ ► just going to treat them as a back-end services supplier the same way they already treat microsoft
00:50:48 ◼ ► and google and amazon for all the web services that they all these companies use of each other right
00:50:53 ◼ ► like everyone's using each other's stuff um to like you know is that like icloud there's there's a bunch
00:51:00 ◼ ► of web services in icloud right that they're using um is that right is that still the case i think so
00:51:05 ◼ ► at least it used to be we'll say that much it's gonna it's gonna be interesting if they don't mention the
00:51:11 ◼ ► provider at all because that that would be so unlike the rest of the ai industry where even google like
00:51:18 ◼ ► everybody's so used to publishing everything and being extremely transparent yeah but we've already
00:51:24 ◼ ► seen that apple don't care about that like that i i to an extent they don't i would be very very
00:51:30 ◼ ► confident they will never talk about who's powering this like they it is not in apple's interest to do
00:51:36 ◼ ► this like i i i don't know i don't know i think it could be if i've actually been thinking a lot
00:51:44 ◼ ► about this too because to me like the tech stuff is fine but the the positioning of it is also really
00:51:49 ◼ ► interesting if the reporting continues that apple is bleeding people and they're not making their own
00:51:54 ◼ ► progress saying hey this stuff is powered by tim and i or we've partnered with google or something
00:52:01 ◼ ► especially if if the reporting is true that this is going to be able to run on private cloud
00:52:08 ◼ ► compute like then apple still has a victory in its positioning because the truth is people who pay
00:52:15 ◼ ► attention are going to already know right it's not like this is going to be a secret and so why not
00:52:21 ◼ ► if there are benefits of like hey we're we are delivering the best ai on your device for your
00:52:29 ◼ ► personal use as we can and it's the most personal like i still think that's a win from a pr perspective
00:52:35 ◼ ► for apple and i and i do think that that is absolutely right and i also think that from a
00:52:42 ◼ ► silicon valley perspective um that is also a potentially interesting story if you are seeking more engineers and
00:52:50 ◼ ► more uh you know people to come work at apple to say well you will have the opportunity to work with us
00:52:56 ◼ ► on a custom google gemini model that is running on pure mlx in private cloud compute like that is a fun
00:53:03 ◼ ► technical challenge to be able to do that and i think there will be there will be a lot of people who
00:53:09 ◼ ► will be interested in the idea of like working with both google and apple in a joint partnership and
00:53:14 ◼ ► running this model at scale on that architecture it's an it's an interesting story from a technical
00:53:21 ◼ ► point of view to kind of to provide balance to both of your arguments like for stevens it's like
00:53:27 ◼ ► they can say all of that without saying it's google like they can say we have the most private ai and
00:53:33 ◼ ► and like they can spin it as their win like look what we've done they don't have to say google has done
00:53:38 ◼ ► it right like we're providing this power with siri and then also like to federico's point i get what
00:53:42 ◼ ► you're saying about both companies but why not just go work at google because this is because this is
00:53:47 ◼ ► interesting because you get to work on this very unique project with two companies instead on an
00:53:51 ◼ ► architecture that a lot of people like mlx a lot of people are interested in it but so far it's been a
00:53:57 ◼ ► mostly a consumer thing and an open source thing and this sounds like like an interesting project i'm more
00:54:04 ◼ ► just trying to provide like devil's advocate to those arguments yeah and i kind of wonder i kind
00:54:08 ◼ ► of wonder part of me wonders if they have to be open about it because the stories are gonna come out
00:54:15 ◼ ► that is actually google gemini behind the scenes and people you know these are large language models
00:54:21 ◼ ► people will be able to jailbreak this thing and it will tell you that you can just ignore all of that
00:54:25 ◼ ► if you're apple though right you can just ignore it like i'm not saying that but they could they could
00:54:34 ◼ ► but i don't know like it's it's an interest it is an inch it is going to be interesting to see how
00:54:40 ◼ ► they handle this because yes in the past talking about data providers is not interesting but this is
00:54:46 ◼ ► there is at least something interesting to this the thing like one of the things that i find
00:54:51 ◼ ► complicated i think in this this whole scenario is right like where where mark's talking about um
00:54:59 ◼ ► that they're gonna you know they'll do this until they get their own stuff right so here the hope is
00:55:07 ◼ ► to use the technology as an interim solution until apple's own models are powerful enough and it's
00:55:12 ◼ ► like i know that apple's mo has always been like we'll use someone else's stuff until we got our own
00:55:18 ◼ ► like google maps right it's like the perfect example intel i just wonder if if this might be
00:55:33 ◼ ► the people who are trying to create the models why would you go to apple i mean they're not now
00:55:44 ◼ ► right i mean people are people are leaving yeah but that and so like if you say like oh now we're just
00:55:49 ◼ ► going to contract in a third party to provide the model that is even less of an incentive to go to
00:55:56 ◼ ► apple yeah yeah that is that is a that is a good counter argument um so like there are people who work
00:56:04 ◼ ► in ai right like you said they're going to find it interesting to do some work on top of this and
00:56:10 ◼ ► like yes you're working with google and apple like that is really interesting but if your job is like
00:56:14 ◼ ► i am a researcher in creating the foundation like the llm like that is my job like why not
00:56:22 ◼ ► like i just don't know if if this is going to be too big of a hill for apple to climb considering they
00:56:28 ◼ ► were already really behind and they've actually fallen further behind where like they have taken a
00:56:34 ◼ ► year and a half and instead they had to bring google in to do it for them like i i just don't i'm just
00:56:41 ◼ ► like how big is this chasm gonna get before they're somehow gonna leapfrog this when when meta
00:56:49 ◼ ► will give people a billion dollars to come and work for them right like and so like i just don't know
00:56:56 ◼ ► and like hey look maybe apple's like we'll wait for the bubble to pop and then we'll scoop up all the
00:57:01 ◼ ► engineers maybe that's it right like we'll wait for the bubble to pop we'll buy anthropic now we have
00:57:05 ◼ ► our starting point right like maybe maybe they're playing that long game because apple can right they have
00:57:11 ◼ ► all the money in the world they can play the long game yeah it's interesting look uh okay federica
00:57:17 ◼ ► 1.2 trillion parameter model yeah big model explain this to me like i am five years old okay it means
00:57:25 ◼ ► how many so um like a five-year-old it means how much knowledge is inside the model how many uh the
00:57:33 ◼ ► parameters uh essentially how much information is inside the model as it is without access to the
00:57:40 ◼ ► internet without access to external tools so like if you had read a lot of books yeah right as a human
00:57:47 ◼ ► human being has read a lot of books and they've got a good memory they've got a good memory how much
00:57:53 ◼ ► knowledge is into the model and models they come in different sizes and you can tell the difference
00:57:57 ◼ ► between a small model and a big model because a small model um is gonna make up stuff just to satisfy
00:58:04 ◼ ► you that's how large language models work whereas with a big model uh it has more nuance it has more
00:58:09 ◼ ► information it has more writing capabilities it has better recall for factual information historical
00:58:16 ◼ ► stuff like it's it's it has more knowledge inside of it the problem is that big models uh like this one
00:58:23 ◼ ► are uh difficult to run and they're difficult to train first of all because they're giant uh what we're
00:58:29 ◼ ► talking terabytes and terabytes of data um uh for context like it takes uh three months i think plus
00:58:37 ◼ ► another six like it takes multiple months to train gpt5 for example like these models and we don't know
00:58:43 ◼ ► the exact size of gpt5 or cloud um uh but these models uh they take multiple months to train and then
00:58:51 ◼ ► you have to run them right and so what what the industry has realized um i'm gonna give you a point of
00:58:57 ◼ ► comparison here so german is saying that google is gonna deploy a 1.2 uh trillion model um we have
00:59:04 ◼ ► what just became as of today in fact uh one of these models from one of these there are these three
00:59:10 ◼ ► chinese com i don't know if you guys are tuned into this space at all but i'm gonna give you a quick
00:59:15 ◼ ► summary i have a story about this though when you're done about okay there are there are there are five
00:59:21 ◼ ► chinese companies that are making ai uh deep seek alibaba with quen moonshot with kimmy um zai
00:59:30 ◼ ► with uh with a model called glm and uh minimax with a model called m2 these are the five chinese
00:59:39 ◼ ► companies that you got to keep an eye on right now as of today kimmy k2 thinking just became
00:59:45 ◼ ► just basically became the best model in the world uh in a whole bunch of benchmarks scoring even higher
00:59:52 ◼ ► than gpt5 pro and that's an open source model from china now kimmy k2 is a one trillion parameter
00:59:59 ◼ ► model no big model um mostly comparable size to what german is saying here you cannot run this model as
01:00:08 ◼ ► it is you cannot just say oh we're gonna give you a one trillion parameter model you're gonna put it in
01:00:12 ◼ ► private card compute you're gonna run it um this is gonna be a model based on this new well new
01:00:19 ◼ ► recent technique called the mixture of experts or moe this is something that was pioneered a few years ago
01:00:26 ◼ ► when you see all of these new giant models they are all based on this architecture it means that you have
01:00:33 ◼ ► this giant llm with all those parameters all those parameters they are not activated all at the same time
01:00:41 ◼ ► it would be impossible to run you will need a whole data center just for a few requests to run those
01:00:47 ◼ ► models um instead uh these models they are split into groups and those groups are called experts um
01:00:55 ◼ ► the model activates only a few experts there's a central router that when you're asking a question
01:01:03 ◼ ► and there's and i'm oversimplifying because you asked me to explain like you're five five year old um
01:01:07 ◼ ► there's there's there's like there's like a central writer that sees your query and says oh i'm gonna
01:01:14 ◼ ► activate this and these parameters so the whole 1.2 trillion parameters they're not they're never gonna be
01:01:20 ◼ ► active at the same time and we know that this is gonna happen because the gemini 2.5 family of models
01:01:27 ◼ ► are based on this architecture it's called um mixture of experts with sparse attention so it's like um
01:01:33 ◼ ► like a card catalog a library yeah right where like you have a piece of information you want to
01:01:40 ◼ ► find and you start by where in the library do i go to get the book yeah yeah that allows you to run
01:01:48 ◼ ► this model um with fewer resources because you don't have to account for the computational power
01:01:56 ◼ ► required for all of those parameters uh the model uh in for example for kimmy they have
01:02:02 ◼ ► three uh 384 experts uh total uh but per token they only activate eight of them and when the model
01:02:13 ◼ ► is running out of those one trillion only 40 billion are active at the same time and so is this
01:02:22 ◼ ► is this a new technology like reasoning was uh no it's been around for a couple of years i think
01:02:28 ◼ ► i think mistrol the french company was the first one to implement it like in a consumer product
01:02:34 ◼ ► and then every everybody started doing it google anthropic the chinese labs everybody's doing it it's
01:02:39 ◼ ► the only way to run these big models um so this is going to be one of those um 1.2 trillion it means
01:02:46 ◼ ► that it's going to have a lot of knowledge baked into it and it's going to be based on this
01:02:51 ◼ ► architecture that google itself uh documented last year with or this year i guess with gemini 2.5 now
01:02:58 ◼ ► is this going to be gemini 2.5 or is it going to be gemini 3.0 gemini 3.0 is launching very soon
01:03:07 ◼ ► and it actually started testing uh if you are fancy enough and google gives you early access i think
01:03:15 ◼ ► people started testing gemini 3.0 yesterday and most likely gemini 3.0 pro will launch in the next
01:03:21 ◼ ► couple of weeks now um we are talking here this german report about march 2026 uh potentially
01:03:29 ◼ ► march april well i mean that is the timeline that mark that is the timeline focusing on for a long
01:03:35 ◼ ► time i have a lot of doubts about it but yeah uh but let's assume that uh that's going to be the
01:03:41 ◼ ► spring now obviously gemini 3.3.0 will be out by then and realistically we will have multiple flavors
01:03:48 ◼ ► of gemini 3.0 by then we will have gemini 3.0 pro which is the reasoning model and we'll have
01:03:55 ◼ ► 3.0 flash maybe even 3.0 flashlight now i think personally that apple and ediq were savvy enough to
01:04:05 ◼ ► convince google to give them a custom model based on gemini 3.0 because the thing about 3.0 that was
01:04:14 ◼ ► confirmed by google engineers again this is a very different industry from what we're used to seeing
01:04:20 ◼ ► from apple these people are just tweeting out information and confirming stuff out in the public
01:04:25 ◼ ► before it's even announced uh gemini 3.0 will have native support for external tools uh tool calling
01:04:34 ◼ ► is another thing that the ai industry is very hot uh about at the moment it basically means the ability
01:04:41 ◼ ► for a model to say well i don't know how to do this i'm gonna call an external plugin i'm simplifying
01:04:47 ◼ ► here this is the whole thing with mcp with uh code interpreters like it's all based on the same idea
01:04:54 ◼ ► the model is able to run a tool on the side come back and give you the results gemini 3.0 will have
01:05:01 ◼ ► tool calling and i think this is potentially what apple is gonna do here because my personal theory is
01:05:15 ◼ ► right now that deal with on-device operations things like running shortcuts locally or managing your home
01:05:25 ◼ ► kit accessories i think what mark german means when he says the gemini model will be used for planning
01:05:35 ◼ ► complex tasks i think we will be looking at a hybrid architecture where the new series will be based on
01:05:43 ◼ ► the gemini model that runs on private cloud compute and understands your questions and based on those
01:05:48 ◼ ► questions it will decide whether it needs to answer on its own or call one of the on-device tools that is
01:05:56 ◼ ► apple made code to deal with things like running shortcuts locally or managing your home kit accessories
01:06:03 ◼ ► locally i think apple considered the big picture here and realized well we have a bunch of stuff
01:06:09 ◼ ► that we can run on device that's been working pretty well the problem is that often like the problem is not
01:06:16 ◼ ► that your phone cannot control your home kit lights the problem is that siri doesn't understand you
01:06:22 ◼ ► when you ask it to do stuff and it doesn't understand multiple requests in a row that is exactly what a
01:06:28 ◼ ► modern llm with tool calling built in can do understanding your requests even multiple ones in a row
01:06:35 ◼ ► so that you will be able to say things like um hey assistant i want you to turn off the lights in the balcony
01:06:47 ◼ ► gemini will understand all of that the local tool will execute all of that and i think that's the architecture
01:06:55 ◼ ► apple is building steven you said you had a story i do uh we recently got a bunch of alerts from like
01:07:04 ◼ ► relays infrastructure uh so i was looking through our cloud flare account and something in china has hit
01:07:11 ◼ ► the relay site like five to six times more than all the rest of our traffic oh now they're now they
01:07:17 ◼ ► are attacking you we have been through this for the past month you want to text john steven okay because
01:07:23 ◼ ► we have been uh we were under attack for like three weeks straight yeah from chinese bots that were
01:07:29 ◼ ► masquerading as russian bots it was a whole thing we had to deal with oh good i will text john i turned
01:07:35 ◼ ► some stuff off uh and uh i did a lot of like the ai crawl control stuff in cloud flare but um it's
01:07:45 ◼ ► bananas um really all this story man it just so so reinforces how how misguided announcing this stuff
01:07:54 ◼ ► at wwc last year was yeah because i i have like two two little predictions i just want to share for now
01:08:02 ◼ ► and we'll see what happens in future one going on something you were just talking about in a minute
01:08:07 ◼ ► federico i think one of the the big problems that we're gonna have is like it's just not going to be
01:08:12 ◼ ► as reliable to do simple things on your device anymore like that the phone you're going to ask it to do
01:08:17 ◼ ► your lights and it's just going to get confused and just go off to the other at a limb okay i just think
01:08:22 ◼ ► this might happen there i've heard reports of like some of uh google stuff doing this that like
01:08:28 ◼ ► when they when they in the google home products they put gemini on them it was less reliable than
01:08:34 ◼ ► google assistant in some instances for doing some simple tasks just because there's this new part of
01:08:39 ◼ ► the process where it's trying to decide like what did the person ask for right uh my second point is
01:08:45 ◼ ► i i mean this isn't this is not unique but it's just how i feel like i don't think that
01:08:52 ◼ ► we will see all of the things that they showed off at wwc 23 shipping before wwc 26 yeah yeah that
01:09:00 ◼ ► that was my other question in the story like all of the stuff like uh the the recognizing what's on
01:09:08 ◼ ► screen which this was all built with technology they didn't even have and they don't even have the
01:09:13 ◼ ► technology they thought they were going to have yeah uh this is why i really hope that they can be
01:09:21 ◼ ► transparent about it because if it works if they do have this hybrid system where it's it's it's a
01:09:29 ◼ ► an lm in the cloud that is also orchestrating with a whole bunch of different tools on device that is a
01:09:35 ◼ ► fascinating technical accomplishment if it works um i don't know um i honestly don't know um yeah
01:09:43 ◼ ► i honestly don't know i i would love to get more details here but this modern nlms uh there was
01:09:52 ◼ ► there was also the rumor you know that apple now that i think about it kind of makes sense remember a few
01:09:58 ◼ ► weeks ago we spoke about the potential uh you know that code that was found in in ios 26 saying
01:10:06 ◼ ► that apple was going to do and was going to have mcp support now i kind of understand it because if
01:10:11 ◼ ► you're working with gemini that's the language that gemini speaks uh and if you and if you're using
01:10:18 ◼ ► gemini as a symptom of it yeah yeah yeah yeah so i wouldn't be shocked to see apple saying well
01:10:27 ◼ ► we told you that it was going to be up intense but now you're going to have to do some little extra
01:10:33 ◼ ► work to also have the document spec for mcp if you don't have could they not provide some kind of
01:10:40 ◼ ► bridging system between the two like in theory they could do i hope that's the case but knowing apple
01:10:47 ◼ ► they probably have like an automatic thing but if you are a developer it's going to be recommended
01:10:51 ◼ ► that you mark up your actions uh for mcp yeah i mean that's what it was going to be like
01:10:56 ◼ ► of app intense anyway right because no one's going to be using them the way that they were
01:11:00 ◼ ► going to need them to be used although i still think that people aren't going to want to do that
01:11:03 ◼ ► anyway i wouldn't be surprised if if google and apple they sat down they took a look at the system
01:11:08 ◼ ► and google told them well look if you really want to have this stuff be reliable you got to use mcp
01:11:13 ◼ ► we cannot use this app intense stuff because gemini was not trained on this app intense stuff like
01:11:17 ◼ ► you can get it to work which is kind of what apple has done with shortcuts uh being able to pass in and out
01:11:24 ◼ ► uh variables of different types but i wouldn't be shocked if google told them look if you want
01:11:30 ◼ ► this stuff to work it's got to be mcp and you can use app intense but there's got to be an mcp bridge
01:11:39 ◼ ► avalan google we've never had a problem with that before let's just get them to work together i mean
01:11:46 ◼ ► they're coming off of victory in that regard in the u.s at least um i don't know if it was a victory
01:11:54 ◼ ► they didn't have such they still get their money and google got to keep chrome i think that's
01:11:59 ◼ ► but it was but like the judge was just like well there's nothing we can do about it but i guess
01:12:04 ◼ ► maybe that is the victory right like this is wrong but we can't do anything about it so we just
01:12:09 ◼ ► we just we just have to let them get on with it i don't know maybe this is uh banned in the eu we'll
01:12:16 ◼ ► see maybe oh oh man everything is what is the wi-fi is banned now yeah wi-fi sync you know it's not
01:12:25 ◼ ► banned in the eu what's not what is not bad this outro to the show okay for now okay for now we'll see what
01:12:35 ◼ ► happens uh if you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about head on over to the website relay.fm
01:12:42 ◼ ► slash connected slash 577 those links are also in your podcast player because we're responsible
01:12:50 ◼ ► podcasters there's a fire truck going by my house i can hear i wondered who was who yeah i don't know
01:12:57 ◼ ► what's going on if you have feedback or follow-up there's a link in the show notes uh to a form uh you
01:13:03 ◼ ► can also go to connectedfeedback.com drop us a note and you can join and get connected pro the longer
01:13:09 ◼ ► ad-free version of the show that we do each and every week it's just seven bucks a month we would
01:13:14 ◼ ► love to have you if you want more of us federico is online at max stories.net and host a bunch of
01:13:22 ◼ ► podcasts over there mike hosts many shows over here on relay you can check out his blog at the
01:13:27 ◼ ► enthusiast.net you can find my writing at 512 pixels.net and i co-host mac power users mac power users