00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 592 it is december 1st 2025 today's show is brought to you by century
00:00:17 ◼ ► gusto and delete me my name is mike hurley and i have the pleasure as always of being joined by
00:00:23 ◼ ► mr jason snow hi jason snow hi mike hurley i don't know how it's december but you know it's monday
00:00:28 ◼ ► morning and i woke up in december it was it just hit me in the face so we'll just have to move on the
00:00:33 ◼ ► season has started are you a christmas tree household yeah is your tree up no i don't know
00:00:40 ◼ ► when would we have we get a tree we we buy a tree like a live tree so um no i put up some christmas
00:00:47 ◼ ► things right but we buy a live tree and you have a fake tree you you wait until thanksgiving is done
00:00:52 ◼ ► before the tree will go up is that like the the borderline yeah i mean nothing happens until
00:00:57 ◼ ► thanksgiving is over and we just got home yesterday so no you know very little on that front speaking
00:01:02 ◼ ► of thanksgiving i have a snow talk question that comes from jonathan who wants to know jason did
00:01:07 ◼ ► you smoke your turkey and if so what method did you use and how was it if so what method do you use is
00:01:13 ◼ ► interesting because it like i anyway i didn't i uh was in in colorado visiting family and so i did not
00:01:21 ◼ ► have to make a turkey i was not looked at as the turkey designated turkey maker um i can do a turkey
00:01:26 ◼ ► a lot of different ways but we used a pellet grill a traeger smoker which is what i it's the inspiration
00:01:32 ◼ ► for me buying one so that i can do that too um but i left that to my brother-in-law he took care of that
00:01:38 ◼ ► i made some brussels sprouts um like in a nice kind of uh soy marinade kind of thing and they were really
00:01:47 ◼ ► good and uh there were lots of dishes and there was a like a dozen people and we had a good time but i
00:01:52 ◼ ► didn't have to make the turkey but if i were to make the turkey at this point that is what i would do i'd
00:01:55 ◼ ► brine a turkey and then i'd put it in a smoker for a few hours and that would be it would be tasty
00:02:01 ◼ ► like it was at my brother-in-law's house mike did you uh get to celebrate uh american thanksgiving
00:02:06 ◼ ► yes your american friends we did actually we spent thanksgiving at the smith's household uh the
00:02:12 ◼ ► underscore household we have never had a thank like a home cook thanksgiving on thanksgiving before
00:02:18 ◼ ► and it was wonderful the food was fantastic the company was even better we had a really wonderful
00:02:23 ◼ ► time it was it was lovely it was really nice uh and so yeah we had a great thanksgiving thank you
00:02:27 ◼ ► very much that's great and you used the opportunity on your blog to list a bunch of things you were
00:02:32 ◼ ► thankful for oh yeah fully in the spirit of american thanksgiving you know i think that like being
00:02:38 ◼ ► thankful is just a nice thing you know like i think it is a good practice and reminder and it's nice that
00:02:44 ◼ ► there's a holiday where the whole premise of it is think about yeah be with be with family this is not
00:02:49 ◼ ► about any particular you know um religious holiday or federal memory of something it it
00:02:57 ◼ ► when you boil it down it is just isn't it nice to be with people and have a feast holiday and think
00:03:04 ◼ ► and i mean you can you can say what you're thankful for or you could just look around you
00:03:09 ◼ ► and be thankful yeah or with your people whoever they might be you know we were talking about this
00:03:13 ◼ ► actually at thanksgiving it was like it is nice that there is less pressure on christmas like
00:03:19 ◼ ► in the uk oh man the pressure is all on christmas it's the big meal it's the gifts you've got to see
00:03:26 ◼ ► everyone like it's all on the one day and like you end up in the scenario where you're in couples and
00:03:32 ◼ ► then like you go into one person's house one year and then another the like family the other year
00:03:37 ◼ ► all that kind of stuff it's nice that you have these two things like they're basically a month apart
00:03:44 ◼ ► right and that you know you you get to have that kind of split and it takes the pressure off the
00:03:50 ◼ ► christmas dinner and also like turkey it's not the best meat right like it's it's what it is like a
00:03:57 ◼ ► nice celebration meat but i think like most people if they eat meat would maybe have a different choice
00:04:01 ◼ ► for like what their favorite might be and then peeps you get to try that out right on christmas like oh
00:04:06 ◼ ► i'm gonna do a ham this year or i'm gonna do something else where we're like for christmas like
00:04:10 ◼ ► we're always doing turkey because like that's the time that you would eat it so it's nice
00:04:14 ◼ ► i think it's nice that you have those those two but it's good times if you would like to send in a
00:04:20 ◼ ► snow talk question of your own just like jonathan did you can go to upgradefeedback.com and submit
00:04:25 ◼ ► yours jason it is time to cast our eyes towards the most glorious episode of the year the upgrade
00:04:35 ◼ ► where you were going with that that sentence took a journey yeah it is the upgrade ease it is upgrading
00:04:39 ◼ ► season hooray literally my favorite episode of the show every year i love the upgrade ease so much
00:04:45 ◼ ► uh it is going to be the 12th annual upgrade ease at the end of uh the month uh we're gonna do it i
00:04:52 ◼ ► think the last episode of the year i think is what we planned with the way that things are
00:04:56 ◼ ► are falling on the calendar i believe the the what is it the the 29th of december is going to be the
00:05:04 ◼ ► upgrade ease yes and we'll do the holiday our own holiday special on the 22nd um and then we'll be
00:05:11 ◼ ► back with regular regularity on the 5th so we're asking uh for your nominations if you if you're new
00:05:17 ◼ ► to the show or you would like a refresh of how the upgrade is works um basically we pick our favorite
00:05:23 ◼ ► thing a bunch across a bunch of categories and we've been doing this for long enough now that we have a
00:05:28 ◼ ► history um you could actually can always go to uh the upgrade ease.com and you can see the history of
00:05:35 ◼ ► all the winners and that is uh maintained and put together it's a group effort uh but zoe is zoe knox
00:05:42 ◼ ► is putting together the website for us and they maintain that for us which is awesome so you can go and see
00:05:46 ◼ ► by category by year so that's always there if you want to go and see that um but basically jason and i
00:05:53 ◼ ► will be picking the winners and we will come to the categories of our own nominations but what we
00:05:58 ◼ ► would like is for you the upgradians to also put in your own some submissions as well for nominations
00:06:04 ◼ ► because sometimes it helps us pick a winner please help sometimes it helps us create nominations because
00:06:10 ◼ ► there are some categories that we have uh less ideas for yeah you can you can remind us of things
00:06:15 ◼ ► that um that if you as a group remind us of things that helps us too um what doesn't happen is one
00:06:22 ◼ ► person says one thing we collect we have a system of collecting them but if five people or ten people
00:06:28 ◼ ► say a thing then we will notice that and that's helpful yeah we i always go through in the show and
00:06:34 ◼ ► talk like the top three things that were nominated by the upgradians and so we put those in there um and
00:06:40 ◼ ► that's also just like a nice thing and then we'll pick uh what we want our winners to be from that so
00:06:44 ◼ ► you can go to upgradies.vote um i'm probably going to close the nominations kind of around the 22nd of
00:06:53 ◼ ► december um i will confirm this in future weeks but don't wait on it like go and put page uh put your
00:06:59 ◼ ► nominations in and it will help us when it comes to doing the show at the end of the year so that's
00:07:04 ◼ ► at upgradies.vote and of course there'll be a link in the show notes it's the 12th annual upgradies
00:07:12 ◼ ► jason i have some follow-out for you okay uh you wrote about uh festivitas yes this was a thing
00:07:25 ◼ ► in my head and thought it was pronounced a certain way and it wasn't until i was preparing for the show
00:07:30 ◼ ► and realized i had to say it out loud that it's not festivitas or festivitas it's festivitas that's
00:07:36 ◼ ► the full name yes like latin like yes this was an app uh that was produced was it last year by simon
00:07:44 ◼ ► stovering last yep last year and it was to to put some uh some holiday lights and to add some holiday
00:07:51 ◼ ► cheer to your mac menu bar and dock was that was the idea behind the dock yeah right right so he updated
00:07:58 ◼ ► the mac app and introduced an ios app you're going to talk about the ios app i will say the mac app
00:08:04 ◼ ► adds um he's done a little bit of polishing over the last year and also he added some uh snowfall
00:08:11 ◼ ► now nice and um added shortcuts support which lets you um script it so the thing that i experimented with
00:08:19 ◼ ► was could i i mean i thought it would be fun if there was a snowfall but then i thought it's what's
00:08:25 ◼ ► more fun is if there's a surprise snowfall so i wrote a shortcut that randomly oh my goodness it just
00:08:31 ◼ ► happened it just triggered on my mac every 20 minutes it runs that's incredible and there's a one it's a
00:08:38 ◼ ► christmas miracle one in ten chance miracle it's literally we're recording this at 9 20 a.m so the
00:08:46 ◼ ► script just ran in the background and there's a one in ten chance that it will be snowing and then it will
00:08:52 ◼ ► also randomly choose a a uh a how heavy it's snowing and how hard the wind is blowing um because you could
00:09:00 ◼ ► do that so you could you could have it be you know at 5 p.m start snowing you know whatever you want
00:09:04 ◼ ► what i wrote was a shortcut that runs every 20 minutes using um using cron job and uh randomly
00:09:11 ◼ ► gives you the chance to get a surprise snowfall because i am delighted when you are just doing
00:09:17 ◼ ► your thing and then suddenly look it's snowing which is what i mean seriously we you could not
00:09:22 ◼ ► have invented this better and it was absolutely random it just triggered and it is the one in ten
00:09:29 ◼ ► chance uh that it's snowing on the episode right now do you have the lights up too or just i do okay
00:09:35 ◼ ► i think i need to install this on my mac i have not installed it on my mac yet but i wanted to play
00:09:40 ◼ ► around with the iphone app which i did this morning so this is interesting right where simon like made an
00:09:46 ◼ ► app for the iphone as well again i guess it works on ipad os as well but it's to make widgets and so
00:09:52 ◼ ► what the app will let you do is a couple of things you can create a photo widget and put lights on it
00:09:58 ◼ ► or you can create a quote-unquote transparent widget and put lights on it too so you could just have some
00:10:05 ◼ ► holiday lights on your your phone like on your you know with your wallpaper there so this app is really
00:10:10 ◼ ► nice like i think the way that simon is presenting the ui for customizing and adding the widgets is really
00:10:17 ◼ ► really good um and for the amount of complexity that is here is incredible i i have a i have more
00:10:26 ◼ ► of an idea of how widgets are made than i ever have before and what simon is doing is is quite complex
00:10:33 ◼ ► um and the way that he's built the system to do all of this i think is is fascinating um the way that
00:10:40 ◼ ► you create the transparent widgets is clever like you take a screenshot of your like a blank home screen
00:10:45 ◼ ► and you put that in the app and it will create what it needs the problem is ios 26 kind of ruined
00:10:59 ◼ ► because it used to be like widgets did not have a little like reflection that goes on around them but
00:11:06 ◼ ► that's one of the kind of liquid glassy things you know they add this to icons and also to widgets
00:11:11 ◼ ► um but for i've added two photo widgets to my iphone home screen of our christmas like the sofia on our
00:11:19 ◼ ► christmas tree like was taking pictures of her like when we're putting up the tree for the first time
00:11:23 ◼ ► um and so now i have these widgets and they have little lights around them that are flashing and you
00:11:28 ◼ ► can choose how often you want them to flash and the colors and this is a really really cool app
00:11:34 ◼ ► and i think it's a very nice way to celebrate the holidays um with some photos on your on your iphone
00:11:45 ◼ ► if i must yes so this one is kind of like a combo of it's kind of follow-upy but it's something new
00:11:56 ◼ ► but it's similar to the kinds of things we've been talking about over the last year or so
00:12:00 ◼ ► so reuters is reporting that the indian government is ordering smartphone makers to pre-install a state-owned
00:12:07 ◼ ► cyber safety app the app is being positioned from a user's perspective as a way to try and tackle phone
00:12:15 ◼ ► theft in india and allow for easier recovery of lost and stolen devices but it also enables the potential
00:12:25 ◼ ► for the indian government to have the ability of being very vague here to track and locate all devices
00:12:37 ◼ ► software that essentially you know is being pictured like hey we're going to help you but it also could
00:12:46 ◼ ► obviously be used for other things and then what kind of hammers this home is that the order from the
00:12:53 ◼ ► government is that the app cannot be deleted so apple and google for example who have to pre-install
00:13:07 ◼ ► additionally the government is mandating that apps that use encrypted messaging link the profile to the
00:13:16 ◼ ► sim card of the user by accessing the imsi number of that sim for authentication and so you know they're
00:13:24 ◼ ► using this as well like hey you can always log back into your when you know when you get a new phone it
00:13:29 ◼ ► would be easy because they're linked together but as nine to five mac notes in india you need to use a
00:13:34 ◼ ► government id to purchase a sim card so this would again indicate the possibility of the government
00:13:40 ◼ ► being able to track down this encrypted messaging account is tied to this sim card which is tied to
00:13:48 ◼ ► this person based on the fact that they use their id to buy it so not great set of things now i wanted to
00:13:55 ◼ ► include this in the show for a couple of reasons like one this is a thing that apple's going to have to deal
00:14:00 ◼ ► with and it's also like it reminds me of like some of the stuff that was trying to be a aka also still
00:14:07 ◼ ► trying to be done in the uk and other places this reminds me of things that they have done with china
00:14:12 ◼ ► but then also while it's possible that apple could try to push back on this and maybe suggest it will
00:14:19 ◼ ► give users the option to download it or something once again they're finding themselves in a situation
00:14:24 ◼ ► where they are trying to balance these requests against the other needs that they have as a
00:14:29 ◼ ► business we've been talking about the fact that they're trying to diversify their manufacturing
00:14:33 ◼ ► processes to rely more heavily on india now the indian government is going to say we want you to do
00:14:39 ◼ ► this not a great scenario to be in i feel like history suggests that they usually are pretty good at
00:14:46 ◼ ► working around these issues um i'm i recall that what the russia had a a little collection of apps that
00:14:55 ◼ ► they wanted everybody to have and i think what apple ended up doing was doing kind of an app store link
00:15:02 ◼ ► thing where you would be you know sort of like sort of like including garage band or something like that
00:15:09 ◼ ► it's like it's actually just in the app store but you are suggested to get it or maybe it auto downloads
00:15:15 ◼ ► it from the app store when you log in but that that was the the limit that they were willing to go
00:15:20 ◼ ► is sort of like a presence as a special app that you should download or or whatever but nothing beyond
00:15:27 ◼ ► that and that apple is not certainly not pre-loaded apps you know just for a certain market on in
00:15:35 ◼ ► advance i don't think they do that anywhere even in china um so i don't know it but this is their this
00:15:43 ◼ ► is the thing that they always try to work on i i found a story while i was searching for background
00:15:47 ◼ ► on this i found a story that uh that putin apparently has now mandated that uh all phone makers include a
00:15:53 ◼ ► russian government run app store on their phones right and i'm sure that would be a big story if
00:15:59 ◼ ► apple were in that market yeah which it's not and and i'll tell you number one if if everything else
00:16:06 ◼ ► blows over for some reason and suddenly people are doing business in russia again somehow um and that
00:16:13 ◼ ► law remains i'll just say it would be very easy for apple to just never never enter that market again
00:16:19 ◼ ► yeah if that's the requirement so uh good good job russian government in in in erecting another
00:16:28 ◼ ► barrier but um here it's a place that that they are and they want to be and they want to grow so
00:16:33 ◼ ► we'll see how apple i mean what apple will say is our you know our model's a little different we
00:16:37 ◼ ► don't have third parties that are generating hardware that are including software on them
00:16:40 ◼ ► we use the app store as our only delivery you know etc etc etc and see if they can get my guess is
00:16:47 ◼ ► something that's more like what they did in russia yeah they're not deleting thing is interesting to
00:16:51 ◼ ► me because i i don't know if there is precedent for that i remember that it was almost similar to what
00:16:58 ◼ ► the browser choice screen is like right with these apps in russia like hey why don't you download these
00:17:04 ◼ ► right and you could you know it presented you with those options they could also argue that it's
00:17:09 ◼ ► something like you know you're you're actually trying we don't need this on iphones because we
00:17:13 ◼ ► already have all we have our activation lock and our apple id lock and so so we've got all of our
00:17:20 ◼ ► uh you don't need anything for easier recovery of a lost or stolen iphone it's fine so you don't have
00:17:26 ◼ ► to worry about it and you know but in the end it becomes a guess what a political conversation yeah with
00:17:32 ◼ ► the with the place in mind and you know they they want apple to be in their market apple wants to be in
00:17:39 ◼ ► their market and so the question is how are we going to do this and you know i i would say that
00:17:53 ◼ ► we've mentioned this before and we're going to keep mentioning it because it's still december so
00:17:58 ◼ ► we're still running our holiday sale here at relay where you can get 20 off the first year of an annual
00:18:06 ◼ ► plan so if you go to get upgrade plus dot com and use the code 2025 holidays at checkout you will get
00:18:13 ◼ ► yourself 20 off the first year of an annual plan so many people have done this jason and it's so
00:18:18 ◼ ► amazing uh i've been really blown away by the response so far um this year and i think there's a good
00:18:24 ◼ ► reason for it because it's only a dollar an episode you get no ads more content to support
00:18:29 ◼ ► the show you love if i say to you listener if you think like over the course of a year 56 that's not
00:18:37 ◼ ► that much money to me well why don't you give it to us you know like if you think oh 56 a year
00:18:42 ◼ ► i could part with 56 a year would you know who would like that 56 a year the shit this show would
00:18:48 ◼ ► like that so why don't you give it to us uh go to get upgrade plus dot com the code 2025 holidays at
00:18:54 ◼ ► checkout uh you will get tons of benefits for being a member you get access to the relay discord you get
00:19:00 ◼ ► bonus content we have uh not just on this show but we have bonus content that goes out to members every
00:19:05 ◼ ► month uh from a variety of relay hosts um there's tons of stuff and hey if you're the type of person as
00:19:12 ◼ ► well maybe you're like i don't know what i want people to buy me for the holidays i find it so
00:19:17 ◼ ► frustrating to give options why not say go to give relay.com and they can gift you a membership to
00:19:23 ◼ ► upgrade plus so go to give relay.com or get upgrade plus.com and use the code 2025 holidays at
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00:21:34 ◼ ► ios 27 will be focused on two key areas there will be obviously some features for apple intelligence
00:21:48 ◼ ► mark german invokes snow leopard as and the idea of it the no new features we're just gonna focus on bugs
00:21:56 ◼ ► uh idea that that whole idea a thing that has come up many times over the years apple should have a snow
00:22:02 ◼ ► lopetier a shovel snow lopetier mark invoked it i don't imagine apple would but mark did uh and that
00:22:08 ◼ ► this release is just focused on making the os feel better to use that's the idea uh rather than adding
00:22:14 ◼ ► major user facing features apparently internally apple is tasking its developers to stamp out bugs
00:22:21 ◼ ► improve performance cut bloat in respective areas of the operating system i would expect that after such a
00:22:27 ◼ ► big redesign it makes sense to do something like this i can imagine that maybe they were stretched
00:22:34 ◼ ► or things you know were not necessarily the way they would want it to ship or there's lots of cleanup
00:22:38 ◼ ► that they would like to do so i kind of get the point of wanting to do this um mark also expects some
00:22:45 ◼ ► new styling or customization options for liquid glass to just naturally be in the os as they've had
00:22:50 ◼ ► another year with it and have had another year of feedback what do you think about the idea of a snow
00:22:55 ◼ ► leopard year for ios 27 well i mean the first thing is it was marketing and there were new features in
00:23:01 ◼ ► snow leopard i know it's not it's not actually what people think it is there was a lot of under the hood
00:23:07 ◼ ► stuff right that got everybody always says oh bug fixes there should be bug fixes and like yes so i think
00:23:12 ◼ ► this is them after uh their year where they were trying to blast ai into the operating systems and
00:23:19 ◼ ► a year where they had to deal with all of the issues involving their new ui with liquid glass taking a year
00:23:26 ◼ ► where they're saying let's maybe put our first off we'll take our foot off the gas also there will
00:23:31 ◼ ► probably be some ai stuff that we have to put in anyway because of whatever's going on with apple's
00:23:35 ◼ ► ai approach going forward and then we have other things that we need to take care of so um like i i
00:23:44 ◼ ► think i don't think anything happens like this without the right conditions where you can afford to do
00:23:52 ◼ ► something like this but i i agree i think that um as they also you know maybe have two different
00:24:00 ◼ ► um iphone seasons going forward maybe the pressure on an individual os release is not as great they
00:24:07 ◼ ► also have this feeling of like not over promising and under delivering because of what happened with
00:24:12 ◼ ► apple intelligence so i can see this as a first off they could use the time uh they are the ones who
00:24:18 ◼ ► insist on having an annual uh 10 pole software release um i also can't imagine that there's not going
00:24:26 ◼ ► to be a wwdc next year that's going to list off some important new things for developers for
00:24:31 ◼ ► to do for ios 27 i can't see it but i think if the idea is that those might be more apis and that
00:24:39 ◼ ► they're doing cleanup and it's for developers to make their apps better and not a whole slew of things that
00:24:43 ◼ ► apple itself is introducing i i think that's great because apple puts this burden on itself and it doesn't have
00:24:50 ◼ ► to i mean i've said it on this show before but i still think it's the case that i think that
00:24:55 ◼ ► that wwdc next year will also focus on the reintroduction of some of the apple intelligence
00:24:59 ◼ ► features that they haven't shipped by that point which is where i i think we will be um like i just
00:25:05 ◼ ► i think the the further we go just the less likely that i imagine that these that all these features
00:25:12 ◼ ► will ship by june it just doesn't it just doesn't seem possible like to me but who knows like i i want to
00:25:20 ◼ ► be surprised this is the logical follow-up from them under promising and over delivering this year
00:25:26 ◼ ► right they're not going they they've stuff they previously promised they continue to promise and
00:25:31 ◼ ► everything else they're not talking about and one of the reasons they're not talking about it is because
00:25:36 ◼ ► they've decided this year that if they don't have it ready to show people they're not going to talk about
00:25:41 ◼ ► it so we will other than the maybe a mark german leak here or there you're not going to see
00:25:46 ◼ ► even groundwork being laid very much until they have there'll be a beta and then you know apple pr
00:25:54 ◼ ► will say in this beta there's this thing that is part of that but like i i think it's a natural
00:25:59 ◼ ► consequence of what happened last year yeah that's a good point you know something you mentioned a minute
00:26:03 ◼ ► ago about like the idea of splitting the iphone releases there is something to be said that like
00:26:09 ◼ ► maybe we would see the introduction of some features around that time as like another reason for people to
00:26:16 ◼ ► pay attention to if they did an event for the non-pro phones you know that like it because like there is a
00:26:26 ◼ ► thing about that of like how they will do that rollout is interesting right because they will
00:26:33 ◼ ► have the september event where they'll be like here are the pro phones here is the folding phone etc
00:26:38 ◼ ► when it comes around to the spring of the following year where they'll be like and here's the standard
00:26:45 ◼ ► phone the plus and the air like the way in which they will release those products is interesting right
00:26:53 ◼ ► because to do a quote-unquote keynote like a video feels like well what are you going to tell me that
00:27:04 ◼ ► i don't already know because you've already shipped the other phones and it's not like the the base model
00:27:13 ◼ ► phones or they're not let's say the non-pro phones it's not either going to have a bunch of new features
00:27:17 ◼ ► that aren't already in the pro phones but then also the idea of them releasing three iphones
00:27:23 ◼ ► as just press releases also seems weird to me like it feels like like that's right it's such a massive
00:27:31 ◼ ► product even the ones that aren't the pro phones right they are huge products like the regular iphone
00:27:37 ◼ ► that like them just being like oh and hey on the store on friday look forward to it like it feels like
00:27:45 ◼ ► i'm i'm intrigued it will be very intriguing to see how because they could just do it right like the
00:27:53 ◼ ► portion of the iphone keynote that is hey here's the iphone 17 they could just do that in the spring
00:28:00 ◼ ► right here it is like we're just going to do that portion it's got this it's got that it's got this
00:28:04 ◼ ► it's got that it's this price it comes out on this date but do they want them to be watched because if
00:28:11 ◼ ► they do that might not be as intriguing as it once was i don't know i don't know that having obviously
00:28:22 ◼ ► you if you want it to be more than a website drop you're going to want there to be some substance
00:28:28 ◼ ► behind it so it could be accessories it could be software features that are held for that right that
00:28:35 ◼ ► the idea of of well and even not held honestly because we we focus on this much more closely than
00:28:40 ◼ ► anybody else does so literally if you've got a 0.3 release coming out about the same time and we've all
00:28:49 ◼ ► seen what's in the betas they're still going to tell you look at all the amazing things that i
00:28:55 ◼ ► ios 27 does yeah and it's still going to include those features so they they can get away with it their job
00:29:02 ◼ ► with the iphone event even if they do a second spring event is not to impress us right it's too
00:29:07 ◼ ► it's to to make enough of a splash that people notice but you know adding features in the os is one
00:29:13 ◼ ► way they could do that they could do some special features they could just be iterating on the betas
00:29:19 ◼ ► i mean they also they make more than just iphones right it's like here's a new ipad here's a new
00:29:24 ◼ ► mac that's the other way device yes that's the other way you make a wave in your spring event
00:29:32 ◼ ► is it's iphones and macs and ipads and other things and you build it up that way and they
00:29:38 ◼ ► definitely have products to sell because once upon a time there was a spring event right like we that was
00:29:44 ◼ ► just a thing that we always expected is like sure it was a music event or it was an ipad event or like
00:29:50 ◼ ► something right and so putting two kind of defined dates not you know defined ranges of time on the
00:29:58 ◼ ► calendar six months apart like there there i can see some logic in that that you know like maybe
00:30:05 ◼ ► instead of instead of showing off this ipad in april you show it off in march maybe it goes on sale in
00:30:10 ◼ ► april maybe you know or whatever but it does you know they can they can make this still more than just
00:30:18 ◼ ► you know what this thing is going to be by adding in some other stuff along with the iphone part of the
00:30:25 ◼ ► presentation which is still obviously important but i think some of the shine is taking off taken off
00:30:31 ◼ ► it if we if we've kind of gotten a preview so like for example the the selfie camera that's on all the
00:30:38 ◼ ► phones right this year well we would have already known about that for six months before they show it to
00:30:45 ◼ ► us in the the the regular iphone in in that scenario it's like it kind of it maybe makes some of that
00:30:52 ◼ ► feel less exciting i don't know but it that is going to be like for you know for me and you for what we
00:30:57 ◼ ► do it's gonna be fascinating to see how they uncouple the iphone announcements from each other and like
00:31:04 ◼ ► what their plan is going to be for that right because i could say i could argue that if they did that this
00:31:09 ◼ ► this year and it comes to march and the iphone 17 is introduced and it's at that price and it has an
00:31:15 ◼ ► always on phone we already knew about that it has the new selfie camera we already knew about that but it
00:31:20 ◼ ► hadn't been on the iphone 16 that they have made a splash the fact that those we don't know what features
00:31:25 ◼ ► are on and if they've got features that were great on the pro and that they bring them to the regular phone
00:31:30 ◼ ► right away uh at an unexpected price then you know they can i think to a certain degree they
00:31:36 ◼ ► can get away with actually announcing existing features because they don't exist on the previous
00:31:42 ◼ ► generation yes of that model i think they can get away with some of that well so hilariously it would
00:31:48 ◼ ► have been perfect to do it with the iphone 17 because the i don't think the iphone 18 is going to
00:31:54 ◼ ► be as impressive as the 17 was i don't see how it can be because they're just what else is there
00:32:00 ◼ ► out just did it yeah they just did that thing yeah that's a funny that's a funny scenario they found
00:32:04 ◼ ► themselves in so to come to the second part of ios 27 obviously mark talks about apple intelligence
00:32:11 ◼ ► features being a part of this release that we said we should see some before then um that were shown off
00:32:17 ◼ ► at wwdc 2024 but also there will be some new features in ios 27 for apple intelligence including
00:32:31 ◼ ► um and throughout the report mark references ai big ai upgrades but doesn't mention anything about
00:32:38 ◼ ► them like but the expectation i guess that he has and i have is there is there would be more
00:32:44 ◼ ► apple intelligence stuff you just know what that is think of it this way there's a pipeline of
00:32:51 ◼ ► of stuff we're using one of those metaphorical pipelines here yeah for the you know it's the ai
00:32:57 ◼ ► dispenser right it is fed by this pipe um separate from other features like a an ai pez i was going to
00:33:05 ◼ ► say it's a little like a like a beer tap they're like there's a pipe that runs and then there's the beer
00:33:10 ◼ ► tap and you can pull on ai my point is view that as separate from the path that does other stuff
00:33:15 ◼ ► yes like all of the ai integration which involves having models and who are the models from and where
00:33:22 ◼ ► are they running and all that stuff let's consider that on its own asking what's in the pipeline for ios 27
00:33:31 ◼ ► is almost impossible right now because we don't even know what's in the pipeline for the second half of
00:33:38 ◼ ► ios 26 and they're still trying to resolve promises they made essentially a year ago that they haven't
00:33:46 ◼ ► delivered on two years ago from what we're talking about now as well right which is wwdc next year yeah so
00:33:53 ◼ ► so i think what mark is saying is obviously the the ai uh improvements will continue i mean i think
00:34:02 ◼ ► that that's a good way of viewing it is that presumably they will ship what they can they will have to
00:34:06 ◼ ► pick up the pieces of what they can't they will have to figure out who their deals are with and where
00:34:11 ◼ ► their models are and how that attaches to the rest of the os and what they're not going to do
00:34:17 ◼ ► is talk about it in a giant milestone because they did that a couple years ago and it was a disaster
00:34:24 ◼ ► they're going and they have new management and they're going to have new goals so like i think this
00:34:28 ◼ ► is all still coming together and they are not worried about what they're going to ship in 26 27 you know
00:34:35 ◼ ► a year year time frame right in ios 27 they are not worried about it because they're like what are we
00:34:43 ◼ ► doing in the next six months not what are we doing in the next 18 months so um i i think and i think
00:34:49 ◼ ► they would be right to be viewing it that way so mark's assumption is they will continue to have to push
00:34:54 ◼ ► and figure out the ai integration stuff but that's just going to be what it's going to be and i think
00:35:01 ◼ ► that's right i think that it's impossible to even see over the horizon to that right now yes from here
00:35:07 ◼ ► here because they've got to fix what's here yep the two things he does mention though so uh health app
00:35:12 ◼ ► stuff this is one of the things that i am almost begging apple to do at this point this is the health
00:35:20 ◼ ► plus basically which he he actually suggested that maybe this ends up in inside fitness they get merged
00:35:28 ◼ ► together into a single absolutely product absolutely which i think they should be if they're going to
00:35:33 ◼ ► charge for like ai powered health features if that is a service i think they're much better rolling that
00:35:39 ◼ ► up in with fitness than having another thing you know on the side that doesn't make sense to me because
00:35:44 ◼ ► like i've been talking about it a bunch but i've been using an app for the last month or two a couple
00:35:49 ◼ ► of months actually called athletic and it's essentially taking the data of my apple watch and just pulling it
00:35:59 ◼ ► together which is a thing that just frustrates me so much with apple's health app it's like they have
00:36:06 ◼ ► all of this information about me and they just show me kind of what i see is like pretty basic statistics
00:36:13 ◼ ► like i want you to pull this and this together and give me an idea of my day right so like they started
00:36:19 ◼ ► doing the sleep score thing right the sleep score just talks about the sleep it doesn't take into effect
00:36:26 ◼ ► any of your vitals overlaid with your sleep so like if you had a different a difference in your wrist
00:36:33 ◼ ► temperature or a difference in your heart rate variability that would have affected how you're
00:36:38 ◼ ► going to feel and the sleep the apple sleep score does not do this but like if you use athletic or whoop or
00:36:45 ◼ ► sleep plus plus or any of these types of apps that are taking health vital information from the apple watch
00:36:52 ◼ ► or from a competing product right like whoop or ura or something and overlaying that with your sleep
00:36:57 ◼ ► tracking data you get massively different numbers because it's actually taking your the signs of your
00:37:04 ◼ ► body into account of how much sleep you got and it will make a difference so like i really want apple to
00:37:11 ◼ ► just even if they it isn't ai at all and they're just like taking this data and overlaying it with each
00:37:17 ◼ ► other i want them to do this and then that app that i use athletic it uses apple's foundation models to
00:37:23 ◼ ► actually like you can you can ask it to to process your your kind of uh it gives like basics like oh
00:37:29 ◼ ► this is you know a text summary at the top of what you're how you're feeling what your body's doing
00:37:35 ◼ ► but you can use apple's the the inbuilt model on the phone to kind of like give you some recommendations
00:37:40 ◼ ► and stuff based on these parameters and i'm sure that the developers have like primed the the the
00:37:46 ◼ ► prompt or something with like you know you're a fitness app but i just want to see apple take the
00:37:52 ◼ ► information they have from these incredible sensors that i wear on my wrist and give me some recommendations
00:37:59 ◼ ► about how i should live my life based on that so it almost feels like at this point the they lack
00:38:07 ◼ ► these features because they've got something planned right it almost feels like the reason that these
00:38:12 ◼ ► features have why would they not have already been there is because they're holding them back because
00:38:17 ◼ ► they have a scheme for something because they are like at this point this is another place where they
00:38:22 ◼ ► are really falling behind their competitors right like these these other devices that you would wear
00:38:28 ◼ ► like bands and rings and stuff like that where they're it's not even just the ai it is just the you
00:38:34 ◼ ► this data and this data and put it together and and give the user a recommendation and and it feels like
00:38:41 ◼ ► as well that there has maybe been like an institutional fear of like making health recommendations to people
00:38:47 ◼ ► but i i want that so tony has asked in the in the chat i'll put a link in the chat the app that i'm
00:38:53 ◼ ► using is called athletic uh i really like it just there's a few apps like this now but like essentially it's
00:38:59 ◼ ► it's like what if woop band but not the woop band like you're you're just taking the information from
00:39:05 ◼ ► the watch and and displaying it in in some ways um but also uh mark suggested an ai powered web search
00:39:13 ◼ ► don't really know what this is based on that right like i know we've been talking about some stuff that
00:39:20 ◼ ► they've been trying to do like the knowledge portion right of like was it knowledge answers
00:39:27 ◼ ► and something else that they've been building that kind of team to kind of try and and replace some of
00:39:32 ◼ ► the the world knowledge stuff the app that they're using open ai for but like is this replacing google
00:39:39 ◼ ► then like what is this with that amount of information this doesn't really tell us much
00:39:45 ◼ ► nope i mean i i yeah i i what what at this point we're just kind of diagramming mark german sentences
00:39:52 ◼ ► and i just don't think there's any point like this is this is that stuff that's in the pipeline like
00:39:56 ◼ ► he's got a he's got a background source that's like oh we're working on some web search stuff that
00:40:01 ◼ ► we're going to do and it's like okay i'll put that in but like what is that going to be and how is it
00:40:05 ◼ ► going to be implemented and and and there may be somebody at apple working on something like that that
00:40:10 ◼ ► may be entirely preempted by what their deals end up being with various partners so okay i'll believe
00:40:16 ◼ ► it again i i 27 there's a famous thing you may you may not know this because it's an american sports
00:40:23 ◼ ► thing but there's this there's uh uh it's it would have been a big meme if there were memes when it
00:40:32 ◼ ► happened uh and it was still kind of a meme even even still there was a coach of the i think he was
00:40:40 ◼ ► the indianapolis colts and they had just lost a game in terrible fashion and somebody said what about
00:40:47 ◼ ► the what are you thinking you know in especially if you if you go to the playoffs and he was so disgusted
00:40:53 ◼ ► this is jim morrow was his name and he's so disgusted and he just looked at the journalist
00:40:57 ◼ ► and he went on a rant and it was like playoffs playoffs and it was very much like what what
00:41:03 ◼ ► are we even talking about here that's a little bit how i feel about ai and ios 27 talk it's like 27
00:41:11 ◼ ► 27 we're not even you haven't even done 26 yet and i don't believe that anybody who's telling mark
00:41:19 ◼ ► german anything about ios 27 involving ai that person is like that is a message coming from inside
00:41:28 ◼ ► the cloud with the question mark on it like that's nice that you're working on stuff we'll see because
00:41:34 ◼ ► i don't i don't necessarily believe that even apple knows what is going to come out of that cloud
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00:43:27 ◼ ► show and relay we're going to continue the rumor roundup by talking about the iphone fold uh so mac
00:43:37 ◼ ► rumors is reporting via chinese website udn that the iphone fold has entered the quote engineering
00:43:45 ◼ ► validation stage um so this is like a point where they've reached in the uh design process where they're
00:43:54 ◼ ► like all right we can start building some of this thing nine to five uh max says the engineering
00:44:00 ◼ ► validation will mean that a production line is being established and it means that like a hundred
00:44:04 ◼ ► prototype units are set to be made so like they're at the point where they're like we think we know how
00:44:10 ◼ ► to do this let's see if we were right and then they'll make some tweaks and stuff like that from there
00:44:15 ◼ ► i think uh the report says that a hundred of them have been made have been made they've already
00:44:19 ◼ ► they have already they're not set to be made they're already there these this is the what evt process
00:44:24 ◼ ► there's a whole thing that is only vaguely exposed to the rest of us which is the um if you know
00:44:31 ◼ ► somebody at apple they will occasionally say oh well that's an evt build or something or a dvt build
00:44:36 ◼ ► it's it's not a right it's it's like part of the process of getting the assembly line up and running it's a
00:44:42 ◼ ► it's a whole different thing this is these are not shipping products this is like did this work are
00:44:49 ◼ ► we building this right kind of stuff but it means that they've built a hundred of them that's a good
00:44:56 ◼ ► sign that is a good sign uh udn says that apple's apparently quote solved the crease problem uh so mac
00:45:03 ◼ ► rumors in their reporting on this mentions that this has been a and they're right consistent source of
00:45:08 ◼ ► rumor where apple have been working very hard on hinge engineering and display choices so the screen
00:45:14 ◼ ► itself the panel is going to be made by samsung but the structure of the panel and the lamination
00:45:20 ◼ ► processes are created by apple this along with a hinge which will include liquid metal components
00:45:28 ◼ ► apparently solve the crease problem i still remain highly skeptical of what solve means in this
00:45:34 ◼ ► scenario yeah although let's keep in mind that it's probably a may very well be a next generation
00:45:41 ◼ ► samsung screen that is not the one that's in the current models sure but yeah we're putting a lot into
00:45:46 ◼ ► what like you can envision the solving the crease problem which is that you can feel or see the part that
00:45:55 ◼ ► um you could view that as being like it's not there or you could view it as somebody at apple has finally
00:46:06 ◼ ► said this is good enough and is that good enough the same good enough as the current generation android
00:46:12 ◼ ► fold phones is it a little my guess is it's a little bit better but not gone right just better yeah and and
00:46:21 ◼ ► that and that the crease problem being solved is another way of stopping to talk about not having
00:46:25 ◼ ► a crease instead we're just saying we've solved the problem and what the what remains is not a problem
00:46:31 ◼ ► it's what are you talking about we solved the problem it's fine we didn't say it didn't have a crease we
00:46:37 ◼ ► said that you know you said we didn't even say there was a problem but you said there was a crease
00:46:41 ◼ ► problem with folding phones and there's no problem with our phone our phone is great and like that between
00:46:46 ◼ ► that and there's there is no crease there is a lot of wiggle room yeah because i just i just don't
00:46:51 ◼ ► understand how you wouldn't be able to see or feel it like because the screen is folding in half and
00:46:57 ◼ ► there is a hinge yeah like i don't i just i don't know man like like when you were here i i showed you my
00:47:05 ◼ ► pixel fold right and you could if you pay attention you can notice that there's a crease there but when you're
00:47:12 ◼ ► using it you just don't like you're just using it you know like you're not paying attention to the fact
00:47:17 ◼ ► that it has it because the screen is on the screen is bright you don't see it and you barely feel it
00:47:24 ◼ ► there feels like that is honestly to me i mean i used the the original galaxy fold and i've used the pixel
00:47:33 ◼ ► fold i will tell you that the pixel fold solved the crease problem for me like it just isn't an issue
00:47:38 ◼ ► anymore so i'm i'm i am intrigued to see what that actually means for for apple well i mean it may
00:47:45 ◼ ► literally be this may be entirely inside baseball it may entirely be that this is that what you're
00:47:50 ◼ ► feeling is what apple also said which is okay we can make this product because i think that what apple
00:47:56 ◼ ► was saying is until we solve this problem yeah we won't make this product and that by building this in
00:48:04 ◼ ► it's their take on it and and you know i've definitely this came up on um mac break weekly
00:48:09 ◼ ► and you know the the twit audience has a lot of people in it who are not uh they're kind of
00:48:16 ◼ ► adversarial to apple um which i don't know why they are listening hate listening maybe um and they're like
00:48:21 ◼ ► oh boy here it is apple making claims that they've done well first off they're not making any claims this
00:48:25 ◼ ► is all just about the the back the background of this apple will not talk about solving the crease
00:48:31 ◼ ► problem like they're just not going to talk about that they will boast about how great it is and how
00:48:36 ◼ ► there's how there's no you can't even tell or whatever they want to make that claim but my point is
00:48:40 ◼ ► you know apple's doing what other phone manufacturers who want to build this phone have done which is work
00:48:47 ◼ ► hard to generate a an engineering solution that makes it work and feel good and is their solution
00:48:54 ◼ ► different than anybody else's maybe i mean i wouldn't put it past them that apple because it's
00:49:00 ◼ ► apple and because they have access to i mean the these stories sort of go into it they have access to
00:49:06 ◼ ► partners and materials that allow them like okay i'm gonna i'm gonna back up for a second the apple and china
00:49:19 ◼ ► i will i will that word yeah i want to because i want to but i just haven't yet but i do want to
00:49:26 ◼ ► read it that that might be your reading assignment you may have a reading assignment now to do that so
00:49:31 ◼ ► that we can talk about it anyway one of the things in there the thing that i think stuck with me the
00:49:35 ◼ ► most is one of the reasons that apple has been so successful in the last 20 years is because other
00:49:40 ◼ ► companies um and i'm not saying all and i'm not saying every instance with apple but other companies
00:49:45 ◼ ► figure out what's been made uh what the tools are that are available and they make the best product
00:49:53 ◼ ► they can or they make the product i mean let's say they might make the product that they have to
00:49:57 ◼ ► they might vow to make the best product they can and sell it at a higher price apple invents stuff right
00:50:05 ◼ ► like apple will say we want to create this phone and people will be like well there's no tool to do
00:50:10 ◼ ► that and apple will say great let's make that tool let's go to this company and pay them you know a
00:50:17 ◼ ► billion dollars to make a production line that makes a thing and that's one of apple's advantages and then
00:50:23 ◼ ► everybody else does it because apple has made it possible because apple was like we need we need this
00:50:29 ◼ ► interim step to get from our dream to shipping millions of the of our dream in a way that nobody
00:50:36 ◼ ► else does i'm sure that in some circumstances some companies and maybe samsung is an example of that
00:50:41 ◼ ► because they definitely have manufacturing skill um in that arm of their company like that's that's sort of
00:50:47 ◼ ► where apple's secret sauce is now is on the hardware side is that will to do that so when we talk about
00:50:54 ◼ ► solving the the crease problem or whatever it is my guess is that these reports are basically saying
00:51:01 ◼ ► apple is pushing apple figured out that there's certain things they could do that would make a folding
00:51:08 ◼ ► phone work a lot better it required new engineering that might go a little bit beyond what their competitors
00:51:16 ◼ ► have done so far and that that to apple was worth it to get it where they wanted it to be
00:51:22 ◼ ► now that may be the case it may be that everybody who knows this will be like well it's actually kind
00:51:28 ◼ ► of a lot like what google does or what samsung does in this area it's a little different maybe
00:51:33 ◼ ► it's a little nicer maybe it doesn't matter i mean i can hear all the discourse about it but that's
00:51:37 ◼ ► that's my guess is that apple used its manufacturing power to uh come up with a process that they think
00:51:46 ◼ ► is uh if not better than the competition which they probably do at least clears their what do they call
00:51:52 ◼ ► it the quality bar yeah so that's my guess that's my guess it'll be really interesting if like the you
00:51:58 ◼ ► know you say about like the material stuff that they've done if a few of these things come
00:52:03 ◼ ► kind of back to them in an interesting way because liquid metal one word is a company that apple has
00:52:10 ◼ ► been in an exclusive relationship with in its history i've been trying to do some googling here
00:52:17 ◼ ► to see if it like continues i found an apple insider article that they wrote based on the fact that liquid
00:52:22 ◼ ► metal was referenced in this iphone folder because you remember they they went into this it's a company
00:52:28 ◼ ► called liquid metal and they make products from liquid metal and they have like their own technology
00:52:33 ◼ ► to do it well and it creates you know some interesting results this will more above my pay grade but you
00:52:39 ◼ ► remember like the sim ejector tool that's been made from these processes for years and it would be very
00:52:45 ◼ ► interesting if like one of the ways that they've been able to make this phone or we'll make this phone
00:52:50 ◼ ► the way that they'll make it is because of that and then also the work of corning because that's when i read
00:52:55 ◼ ► that like the structure and lamination processes are created by apple it's like is that in collaboration
00:53:00 ◼ ► with corning because that's going to be an interesting part of this is what's the glass on this phone
00:53:06 ◼ ► yeah i i think all of this is are you getting it yet yeah exactly right which is which and again
00:53:14 ◼ ► what i will not say because i doubt it's true is apple's gonna do a folding phone the likes of which
00:53:20 ◼ ► nobody's ever seen before right because this is not the case apple has been working on folding phone
00:53:27 ◼ ► prototypes for a long time and seems to have not been satisfied with any of them and now they seem
00:53:31 ◼ ► satisfied so that's great but just because apple is apple and because apple has all of these supplier
00:53:39 ◼ ► relationships and has money and and will have i mean they're gonna sell this thing success or failure
00:53:47 ◼ ► this thing will sell more phones than probably any single folding phone model because it's an iphone
00:53:54 ◼ ► right they're gonna have volume because it's apple just just because it's apple so does apple have the
00:54:00 ◼ ► clout to have a very special uh specially engineered surface from corning yes will it use liquid metal
00:54:08 ◼ ► parts that have never been built before something you can't take off the shelf that's entirely differently
00:54:14 ◼ ► processed probably right like that those are their advantages as they have that kind of kind of thing so
00:54:20 ◼ ► yeah that i think that's what it'll be and who knows what the claims will be they they will probably not
00:54:26 ◼ ► talk about competitors and they will probably not talk about the full the fold problem the crease
00:54:31 ◼ ► problem unless it serves them unless again they feel like oh you've heard about folding phones but
00:54:36 ◼ ► they've got a they got a crease and ours doesn't and and they'll boast about it in that way but it'll be
00:54:40 ◼ ► more generic if they do it and i do think they will boast to a certain degree because i do think that
00:54:46 ◼ ► it's it's crossed a line for them where they think that this product is good enough that said if there's
00:54:54 ◼ ► literally anything that is not quite perfect about it everybody will know right like and they know
00:55:03 ◼ ► that the world's eyes are on them so it'll be an interesting challenge for them to spin it however
00:55:07 ◼ ► they get there mac rumors also uh rounded up a few recent rumors about the device that it could have an
00:55:14 ◼ ► under display 24 megapixel camera so the new selfie camera that's in the phones but under the display
00:55:20 ◼ ► uh that the iphone fold could feature high density battery cells resulting in the largest battery in
00:55:26 ◼ ► any iphone ever and that the starting price price could be set somewhere between two thousand and
00:55:33 ◼ ► twenty five hundred dollars high density battery still not surprising right because because although
00:55:38 ◼ ► they'll have it's not quite like the iphone air because there are two planes but they still have to get
00:55:43 ◼ ► everything else in there but but the idea that you would want those cells to be um pretty powerful
00:55:49 ◼ ► because they can this device exactly um under display is the one that fascinates me because that's the
00:55:55 ◼ ► that's we've heard that that's been a desire of apple for a while and i know that there are other phones
00:56:00 ◼ ► that have some of this stuff that they've managed to get it behind the display it is uh not something that
00:56:06 ◼ ► that we sent on on iphone so how apple would do something like that again to meet their self-defined
00:56:13 ◼ ► level of acceptable quality uh that it's going to be interesting ming chi kuo is reporting that apple is looking to
00:56:22 ◼ ► partner with intel to produce future apple silicon chips so this is a partnership that is currently being
00:56:30 ◼ ► considered to start in 2027 and it will produce the base level m chip so expect say the m7 not the m7 pro
00:56:40 ◼ ► m7 max just the m7 tsmc would remain apple's main partner producing everything else all the iphone chips
00:56:48 ◼ ► and all of the professional and higher powered mac chips and ipad chips if they were to put more than
00:56:54 ◼ ► than just the base and an ipad say politically this is a move apple would want to make because it supports
00:57:01 ◼ ► the made in america mentality that they've been trying to show more of this would be a quite significant
00:57:07 ◼ ► step forward for them because this would be a part which is used in a lot of devices and a lot of like
00:57:15 ◼ ► if they start with an actual m7 chip would be in modern devices because there is a scenario right where like
00:57:22 ◼ ► they could be like in 2027 they're going to make m5 chips or something that's going to go in older
00:57:28 ◼ ► devices right so we're just assuming that it would be let's just say the current processor at that point
00:57:34 ◼ ► but it also allows for apple to start building a possible path to increase diversification away from tsmc
00:57:40 ◼ ► so therefore away from taiwan and away from any potential threat from china in that regard and away from just
00:57:47 ◼ ► one company that makes all their silicon as a reminder back in september bloomberg reported that
00:57:56 ◼ ► intel approached apple to form a partnership to aid the company in building out and securing their
00:58:01 ◼ ► foundry business and also because they're in a bit of trouble intel they were looking at an investment from
00:58:06 ◼ ► apple maybe this is part of that or maybe is it right like it's not like an investment but we're gonna say
00:58:13 ◼ ► give you this contract wouldn't that be nice what do you think about this i think this is intel this is
00:58:20 ◼ ► intel being a fab for someone else's chip design which is a thing that famously intel didn't want to do
00:58:27 ◼ ► but intel's in dire straits right now so this report is basically saying apple will build some will bring
00:58:34 ◼ ► some chip business to intel as a you know like as tsmc as a client that is making chips to apple's design
00:58:43 ◼ ► so it's not don't think of this as an intel chip no intel used to be intel chips used to be intel is a
00:58:50 ◼ ► company that makes chips the chips are designed by intel that was how it was is like intel chips were
00:58:56 ◼ ► intel chips they were made by intel they were designed by intel but what this is is breaking
00:59:01 ◼ ► that apart into two businesses intel designed some chips of their own that they make and then they also
00:59:06 ◼ ► will use their their fabs to make your chip that you design and um and they can get some of that
00:59:14 ◼ ► business and the challenge there is where are they in terms of their fabs versus tsmc but one of the
00:59:21 ◼ ► answers may be well yeah we're not going to make our more advanced chips on intel's lines because they
00:59:27 ◼ ► can't make those chips to our specs their fabs have not reached the the process uh power process
00:59:34 ◼ ► advancement level that tsmc has it diversifies like you said it diversifies their um their suppliers
00:59:43 ◼ ► um it's right like tsmc has been a great partner for apple and i think continues to be but it is
00:59:50 ◼ ► it is in taiwan that there is some danger there there's also a lot of political pressure to make
00:59:54 ◼ ► more things in america tsmc is also you know got plants in the united states i think this is just part
01:00:00 ◼ ► of that spec so honestly the thing that makes people raise their eyebrows about this is going to be oh
01:00:08 ◼ ► intel chips a but the truth is if we said there is you know this famous you know other company that's
01:00:16 ◼ ► a competitor to tsmc that also will make chips on demand and they're based in america and apple has
01:00:23 ◼ ► decided to throw some degree of chip manufacturing their way for some of their lower end chips and it
01:00:30 ◼ ► wasn't coupled with the history of intel and apple's relationship to intel i think this would be an
01:00:37 ◼ ► interesting story from a strategy us politics diversification risks of taiwan kind of angle
01:00:45 ◼ ► but the the intel part gives it spiciness it's just that it is it it's not relevant to the discussion
01:00:54 ◼ ► it really the history of intel has nothing to do what's going on this is intel as a fab partner
01:01:01 ◼ ► using you know apple's designs not an intel chip in any way like you would say that the apple silicon
01:01:08 ◼ ► chips are you know oh that they're i'm running on the tsmc m5 nobody says that i think the the reason
01:01:17 ◼ ► my eyebrows raised to this though is that this was the chip that they would start with or would do
01:01:23 ◼ ► like i would if you would have said to me they're going to do this what are they going to make i would
01:01:28 ◼ ► say maybe an old a processor or maybe a modem chip or something like that like if this report
01:01:37 ◼ ► is to be assumed that it would be the kind of current gen base mac chip that is a little more
01:01:46 ◼ ► than i necessarily would have expected as like their kind of first foray into this relationship if
01:01:51 ◼ ► that's what they end up doing i don't know i mean macs and ipads are less important than the iphone to
01:01:57 ◼ ► apple yep um their power needs and their their constraints and all that are less than the ones that are in an
01:02:05 ◼ ► iphone um and we don't know about their uh about their roadmap for chips it may also be
01:02:13 ◼ ► that there are some very particular things about whatever the a series is doing in these generations
01:02:18 ◼ ► and that the m series doesn't have to do them so much because it is targeted at a larger device
01:02:24 ◼ ► uh and and that and intel's processes are good enough for that um right and then also yes this is like
01:02:32 ◼ ► the c1 and the c1x uh where you want to try this out in a place where having a new partner new old
01:02:42 ◼ ► partner but a new partner is not that big a deal um my guess too is also the base model m chips go in
01:02:48 ◼ ► everything so if this is a dual source uh and if tsmc is also making these and intel is making them
01:02:56 ◼ ► then you know it's just you get volume from both um and and the other way to look at it is yeah maybe
01:03:01 ◼ ► the m7 unlike previous chip generations for the mac maybe the m7 generation really is on two entirely different
01:03:09 ◼ ► processes and the m7 is just you know not as advanced and it's not as good as the m7 pro and
01:03:17 ◼ ► macs which are made on modern cutting edge tsmc lines that would be another way to differentiate the product lines so
01:03:24 ◼ ► you know i i think intel is no stranger to making complex chips right the intel fabs are going to be
01:03:29 ◼ ► able to make a complex chip so in some ways i could argue this makes more sense because it's not in the
01:03:34 ◼ ► iphone and it's going to be you know markedly not the high end of the apple silicon chips and and so
01:03:41 ◼ ► maybe that's good enough and it's a decision that they're choosing to make because they want to make
01:03:45 ◼ ► it not because they're forced to make it so something goes wrong tsmc will be waiting there ready to make the
01:03:50 ◼ ► chips right like it's it this isn't like uh they're not being pushed into this that at least at this
01:03:56 ◼ ► point there's no this is like a choice that they will make so if they ever do get pushed they will
01:04:01 ◼ ► have some relationship some technology building together i mean they're getting pushed in the
01:04:06 ◼ ► sense that they know which way the wind is blowing even if the wind isn't pushing them they know which
01:04:10 ◼ ► way the wind is blowing yeah and diversifying is a good idea and having an american partner like intel
01:04:16 ◼ ► which i mean there there is a real strong argument to be made and you can read all about it in a bunch
01:04:20 ◼ ► of um posts on stratechery that ben thompson has made but there's a really strong argument to be made
01:04:26 ◼ ► that the united states in general the government and everybody else in the tech industry in general
01:04:33 ◼ ► should want intel to continue to be or to invest to be even better a capable domestic chip fab
01:04:43 ◼ ► because of the risks of of taiwan geographically and that tsmc is trying to do stuff in the united
01:04:52 ◼ ► states but there are cultural issues there because it really is still the people from taiwan who are
01:04:56 ◼ ► coming over to supervise all of that and so that there's a geopolitical reason for intel to exist and
01:05:04 ◼ ► also i would say more broadly it's really good to have competition and having tsmc be the only ones who
01:05:11 ◼ ► do this um you know and samsung makes chips samsung is another one samsung is not south south korea isn't
01:05:18 ◼ ► as vulnerable as taiwan is but still there is there there's a lot going on here so saying we got another
01:05:26 ◼ ► partner there you know they're not investing in nothing right this is not we're going to make a mac pro
01:05:31 ◼ ► factory and make 100 mac pros or whatever this is a real partnership that helps intel kind of be there
01:05:38 ◼ ► as a bulwark against bad things happening in the in the chip business while also acknowledging that tsmc is
01:05:45 ◼ ► the best at what they do and that the high-end chips need to be made at tsmc for now this episode is
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01:08:01 ◼ ► first question comes from mark who says do you think that apple should add a configurable button
01:08:09 ◼ ► to the apple remote for apple tv similar to the action button as someone who frequently toggles
01:08:15 ◼ ► subtitles on and off i would love to have a dedicated button to do so i could also see people who have a
01:08:21 ◼ ► preferred specific streaming service or find or like finding utility searching utility in setting of a
01:08:27 ◼ ► quick action to launch that app what do you think about that jason not do you think they would because
01:08:32 ◼ ► it probably wouldn't but would you like it if they did um i i don't know i mean more buttons on the
01:08:43 ◼ ► remote i don't know i think there's already a side button that uses siri and you know you could you could
01:08:50 ◼ ► i just don't know how smart that hardware is the idea that you could maybe double tap it to do something
01:08:54 ◼ ► different um however i will say uh there is an accessibility shortcut on apple tv that lets you
01:09:04 ◼ ► triple click the home button to do something and one of the things is subtitles so what i would say is
01:09:11 ◼ ► i don't think apple needs to add more buttons on the iphone on the apple remote i think that um having
01:09:17 ◼ ► software that lets you set shortcuts uh yeah double tap the siri the siri button on the side maybe but i
01:09:26 ◼ ► think there is already because i i do it sometimes by accident there is an accessibility setting that lets
01:09:32 ◼ ► you toggle system-wide subtitles on and off so maybe use that that's pretty cool that's a good that's a good
01:09:39 ◼ ► top tip that's a good top top of my head so i don't know exactly where it is but i absolutely have
01:09:45 ◼ ► that set up on my remote so that if i if i do a triple uh i think it's triple home button uh it it
01:09:53 ◼ ► turns on the captions yeah love it that's pretty good i like it i think so i think so we'll we'll follow up if
01:10:01 ◼ ► it if it is different but um i would say that that's my in short that's my answer which is i'd rather just
01:10:07 ◼ ► apple have configurability for things rather than that remote get even more buttons on it levi asks
01:10:14 ◼ ► given the success of ted lasso and the f1 movie and apple's new broadcast deal with uh the f1 what do you
01:10:21 ◼ ► think uh are the chances of something like a ted lasso meets f1 series on apple tv so i have a broader
01:10:29 ◼ ► question here okay we can't really answer that but it sparked a broader question for me do we have
01:10:35 ◼ ► expectations that they will create more content around the sport around f1 yes yes so they already
01:10:41 ◼ ► have in the works a documentary about lewis hamilton's life which he is participating in they announced this
01:10:47 ◼ ► i think at the same time that they announced the f1 movie but maybe this was is it a musical
01:10:56 ◼ ► he is lewis hamilton that's how it goes yeah that's how it goes yeah get linman well involved
01:11:01 ◼ ► so they will have this maybe this is something that like they've decided to push out a little bit
01:11:05 ◼ ► longer because it would make a lot of sense to kind of put these two things together maybe lewis is
01:11:10 ◼ ► waiting for a better chance in his fortune uh as a driver it would be nice if they could wrap this up
01:11:15 ◼ ► with the eighth world championship but that doesn't look like it's going to happen in the near future
01:11:19 ◼ ► unfortunately um you know we spoke about he's not throwing away his shot though so i mean he actually
01:11:24 ◼ ► unfortunately might have um uh the the you know we spoke about you know a drive to survive like uh
01:11:32 ◼ ► type show well i think they can't do that because they've got drive to survive on netflix and that's
01:11:36 ◼ ► a good deal for f1 and i think as long as that as it's a good deal for netflix uh it'll stay there
01:11:41 ◼ ► and if it if netflix is over it then i think they'll basically do the same thing at apple but i
01:11:47 ◼ ► absolutely think that they will create in addition to the f1 movie and that there's going to be a sequel
01:11:52 ◼ ► probably to that i would be shocked if there were not many more things involving f1 especially if
01:11:59 ◼ ► this is a long uh the idea is this is a long-term partnership that's going to grow beyond the us i
01:12:04 ◼ ► think that they will continue to invest in some content here it's really interesting because you're
01:12:09 ◼ ► kind of thinking about like would the you know zach and jamie who run apple's whole operation here for for
01:12:17 ◼ ► entertainment it's almost like they if well i guess they already do but it's like you really have a
01:12:23 ◼ ► sports division it's like a little an apple sports division inside it and what what their priorities
01:12:29 ◼ ► are are a little bit different so the idea that they would have some sports uh content around it that
01:12:36 ◼ ► would be more interesting and viewable and honestly viewable for the rest of the world for f1 fans around
01:12:42 ◼ ► the world even if they're not a perfect fit you could even argue that the more f1 content apple has
01:12:48 ◼ ► all around the world the more natural it would feel when apple buys your country's f1 rights right is that
01:12:55 ◼ ► they will have already primed the pump a little bit so i i would i would not be surprised it my guess is
01:13:01 ◼ ► the more like sports docs than scripted series set around f1 although i'll tell you if i were a writer
01:13:22 ◼ ► scripted to apple right and i'm sure they already are but like i would absolutely do that like i
01:13:29 ◼ ► i would i think maybe apple is interested in hearing some pitches about for comedies or dramas
01:13:36 ◼ ► that are set around f1 in some way yeah they might say no to all of them but i think it would be worth
01:13:42 ◼ ► a shot we spoke about this in the drug they make one of these for soccer oh sorry everyone one of these
01:13:49 ◼ ► for football they make one of these for golf right like it's it's okay it's okay by the way soccer is
01:13:55 ◼ ► short for association football and it's a term invented in the uk that was that so it's funny
01:13:59 ◼ ► that soccer is an english word this is why we work so well together you knew that was what i meant uh
01:14:04 ◼ ► that was what i meant but yeah they already make two of these they could make a third and it'd be
01:14:10 ◼ ► about f1 you know although that although to be honest the f1 movie is essentially that i've just
01:14:18 ◼ ► realized yeah crash out guy you know like comes back to the sport i've just realized i hadn't thought
01:14:24 ◼ ► of this until now i mean brad pitt it is f1 the movie yeah that's what he is and that's funny you
01:14:30 ◼ ► could absolutely do a so the advantage that a series would have a scripted series yep is that you could
01:14:38 ◼ ► take the season and all the drama of the season and spread it out yeah in a way that a movie can't so the
01:14:46 ◼ ► idea that every episode is an another stop along the way and there's more like like uh i mean stick
01:14:52 ◼ ► sort of gets there at the end and ted lasso was definitely like that in the different matches that
01:14:58 ◼ ► would happen it wasn't quite the same but it was similar so you could you could totally do that and
01:15:03 ◼ ► it wouldn't shock me if we hear that apple is actually planning a you know a dramatic series that is set
01:15:11 ◼ ► among you know f1 with f1 as a partner that has a specific twist on it but it's also going to be
01:15:17 ◼ ► shooting at real f1 events and using those as as locations and it's globe trotting and it's got a
01:15:24 ◼ ► a varied uh multinational cast and all that and yes it does sound like f1 the movie but this is different
01:15:30 ◼ ► because there'll be some spin on it that makes it sound different and this is f1 the show i've got a
01:15:35 ◼ ► right i have a pitch because i think it would be really expensive right to try and do a show set
01:15:43 ◼ ► in f1 so my pitch is it is a show about a teenager who wants to become an f1 driver so they're racing in
01:15:53 ◼ ► the lower levels well they go they start a go-kart because that's where they all start that's kind of a
01:15:58 ◼ ► ted lasso um in the sense too of of kind of like taking the team up yep um as a rise through the
01:16:05 ◼ ► ranks i agree also um depending on the relationships i wouldn't run it i wouldn't put it past them that
01:16:12 ◼ ► what they do is they say we would like a tv show set in the world of f1 the movie and bring in the
01:16:19 ◼ ► producers of f1 the movie and have them work together so that when f1 the movie part two
01:16:27 ◼ ► comes out there one of the other things that they announce is that there's a f1 tv show i have another
01:16:33 ◼ ► pitch rise to f1 all right it's a workplace comedy set at the factory where they make the car sure
01:16:43 ◼ ► that's my that's my second pitch i like that i i mean i don't know that maybe maybe i think uh
01:16:49 ◼ ► every every apple show now will have a note in it which is could f1 be involved in this somehow
01:16:54 ◼ ► yes um you know slow horses could could could f1 someone steals an f1 car on the slow horses could
01:17:02 ◼ ► could jackson lamb have a race toy race car on his desk what else or could he have a line where he says
01:17:10 ◼ ► oh you know my favorite racer is lewis hamilton maybe i don't know anyway i think it's an
01:17:18 ◼ ► interesting idea uh levi uh no matter i like i think we'll see more content about f1 i think i i'm
01:17:24 ◼ ► confident in that whether they will go the scripted route beyond the f1 movies uh i think depends on
01:17:29 ◼ ► the pitch but um it wouldn't surprise me at all greg writes in and says one of the features i look
01:17:36 ◼ ► forward to the most with mac os tahoe was migrating many of my menu bar apps to control center it
01:17:45 ◼ ► doesn't seem though that many of the apps that i use have implemented this ability is there something
01:17:52 ◼ ► that i'm missing or is this just a case of it being a lower priority for developers um liquid glass was a
01:17:59 ◼ ► much higher priority i i think over time mac app developers will investigate this my understanding
01:18:06 ◼ ► is that the api was kind of half formed and that there's more to be done here i think this is a
01:18:13 ◼ ► very long-term thing you should not expect that there will suddenly be an update and all of your apps that
01:18:20 ◼ ► are menu bar apps will suddenly use control center i think it's going to take time but i do think that in the
01:18:26 ◼ ► long run this is apple saying we have given you a new a brand new api that adds a lot of functionality
01:18:35 ◼ ► for you and the user in terms of where your stuff can live in the menu bar and in control center and
01:18:41 ◼ ► that my hope is that over time developers will adopt it and that developers will also give apple feedback
01:18:48 ◼ ► about what's missing in it so that uh maybe the api could be adjusted but i'll give you an example like
01:18:55 ◼ ► i have i use swift bar which lets me generate these things that are up in my menu bar for stuff like my
01:19:01 ◼ ► weather and my solar um and they're running scripts or you know whether it's shortcuts or apple scripts or
01:19:09 ◼ ► shell scripts to do all this um and they live in the menu bar which is great but in the long run would i like
01:19:15 ◼ ► the option to also have those instead run in a in a control center as a control because i think it's
01:19:22 ◼ ► called the controls api yes i would that would be a nice thing sort of like how i have scriptable scripts
01:19:28 ◼ ► on ios that run in widgets i would love to have that but it takes engineering work over time and
01:19:36 ◼ ► the good news is every mac running you know tahoe uh can do this so going forward i do hope that
01:19:43 ◼ ► mac apps will embrace this unique thing about mac os and that will be great but this where i think
01:19:49 ◼ ► we're talking probably many years as this goes on but i would imagine that in five years menu bar apps on
01:19:56 ◼ ► the mac will look a lot different now because apple has kind of created this api and if you if you don't
01:20:01 ◼ ► know if you didn't read my tahoe review or you don't remember like it's not just control center
01:20:06 ◼ ► now you can add multiple drop down menus in the menu bar fill of controls using the controls api either
01:20:14 ◼ ► from apple or for third parties so it's basically a whole menu bar manager so you can say like oh i
01:20:19 ◼ ► want to add one and i'm going to pick this icon and it's going to put all my i'm going to put all my
01:20:29 ◼ ► building an apple-y way to approach organizing stuff that you want around in your menu bar to be
01:20:37 ◼ ► looked at either on the menu bar or in a sub menu so um eventually we'll get there greg but it's going to
01:20:43 ◼ ► take uh years i think yeah and also there will definitely be apps that will just never do it um
01:20:49 ◼ ► for one reason or another which is a shame yeah i know it's one of those things where apple's not
01:20:53 ◼ ► going to make it easy on them to like be in control center as just a generic menu bar item although at
01:20:59 ◼ ► some point it would be nice if they did like they let the users just sort of say no you're not going
01:21:04 ◼ ► to live out there anymore you're going to be in this little uh what they really ought to do is have a
01:21:08 ◼ ► notch detector or even just for a small screen a small screen detector that automatically generates a
01:21:15 ◼ ► little control center kind of holding bin whenever there's overflow that's probably a feature they
01:21:21 ◼ ► should i'm hey hey mac os people who are listening uh that's a good idea for for a 27 feature is if my
01:21:29 ◼ ► menu bar items collide with the menu coming from the other side or the notch how about an automatically
01:21:37 ◼ ► generated control center drop down that all of those menu bar items just get shunted into that would be
01:21:44 ◼ ► pretty cool so maybe we'll get there um i i will say for the developers of all of those bar apps
01:21:52 ◼ ► that are out there that like because there's swift bar which i use but it was originally uh different and
01:21:59 ◼ ► now there are like multiple ones of it because like the one that swift bar x bar i think it was got like
01:22:05 ◼ ► revived um anyway somebody needs to venture into the control controls api because another fun place
01:22:14 ◼ ► to put this stuff would be in there and not just on using the old menu bar so somebody should go do that
01:22:20 ◼ ► that that would be awesome i would do that i would love to put some of the stuff that's in my menu bar
01:22:23 ◼ ► in a little drop down instead that would be fun some i mean and surely i mean i say surely but like
01:22:29 ◼ ► there are so many weird workarounds on the mac that like it feels like someone could create something
01:22:35 ◼ ► that would do that even though they're not supposed to be there like you could find a way to do it it's
01:22:39 ◼ ► literally there right i mean that's the funny thing is that the api is there somebody would just have to
01:22:44 ◼ ► do that work and and uh and if it's if i'll just i'm just throwing out challenges here like i think
01:22:51 ◼ ► these apps are both open source too um swift bar and and uh x bar like if they're not going to do it
01:22:59 ◼ ► you know you could contribute or you could fork it and do it but like i think there's probably a good mac
01:23:04 ◼ ► utility that just does this that that is like swift bar but uses the controls api instead i think that's
01:23:10 ◼ ► it's interesting this feels like a job for john siracusa honestly like just uh i don't know if
01:23:15 ◼ ► he cares about the menu bar so much but we'll we'll see we'll see that my response was wrong i should
01:23:19 ◼ ► have been like ah he'll make a whole custom dock but he won't touch the menu bar you know yeah he
01:23:25 ◼ ► doesn't want you don't you don't have to worry about it if you have a pro display xdr you you can fit
01:23:29 ◼ ► everything does he have an xdr i think he does right then my memory says he does yeah i think he does
01:23:35 ◼ ► that sounds right outmoded outmoded old technology then he won't give up although i would love honestly
01:23:40 ◼ ► i would love the scenario in which he bought a mac pro but didn't buy the display that also i mean i
01:23:45 ◼ ► i'm sure he did but my memory says that but also it would be hilarious if he didn't and it would also
01:23:53 ◼ ► feel like something john would do maybe right it's like well i've already got the perfect monitor why
01:23:57 ◼ ► would i why would i change it but i don't think the perfect monitor existed if you would like to send
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01:24:31 ◼ ► wearing my ted lasso hoodie uh sweatshirt today that i bought uh apple park a few years ago which is one
01:24:36 ◼ ► of my favorites it's when they made the partnership with nike and they were made really nice rather
01:24:41 ◼ ► than when warner brothers are doing it on their own and they were a disaster just bad bad products yeah and
01:24:50 ◼ ► yes mine they're sitting on top of a g4 cube there's a microtron uh up there yeah it's always
01:24:56 ◼ ► been there but i i made our riverside window big before uh we started the show today and i saw the
01:25:00 ◼ ► micronaut hiding back there so you can go see it too uh thank you to delete me gusto and sentry for
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