The Accidental Tech Podcast

19: Designed by App in Cal

 

  this episode is brought to you by Audible the leading provider of [TS]

  downloadable audiobooks go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP to learn more [TS]

  and you're gonna have like 16 hours in your car [TS]

  oh ya gonna be a number not the bus after surgery and so many show it truth [TS]

  should we tell the public Weber actual recording this so that enforce anything [TS]

  big happens next week they know we probably should so today it is june 21 [TS]

  which is a Friday the longest day of the year is a really my son times yes it is [TS]

  the salted the Solstice now right right so we are recording today because john [TS]

  is traveling next week and we didn't want to leave our beloved fans / [TS]

  listeners without an episode next week so we're recording very early and will [TS]

  release a week from today so when Apple buys intend on Monday we won't know [TS]

  about it [TS]

  well I thought the plan was you were going to buy nintendo on Monday then [TS]

  sell it to Apple and then they would just shut it down and heated life as a [TS]

  data plan on a bad idea i mean that would give us more to talk about at [TS]

  least but then German double talk about it would I would just call you and just [TS]

  talk alone without jobs that would make him so angry so funny I guess somebody [TS]

  bought in 10 Doha anything to say about that [TS]

  no not really not really ok I guess I'll move on with the macros amar jaan what [TS]

  would you do I mean honestly you'd be so upset I would think I would I would [TS]

  actually write a blog post about the angry of a drive you to write a blog [TS]

  post now I be so motivated as some of the things I want to write about but [TS]

  it's like a time gotta gotta gotta go back to fretting about my review that's [TS]

  true how's it going I'm fretting about it [TS]

  well this is not July now I that's why that's why I know that I am writing [TS]

  full-time activity I'm still gathering gathering resources trying to come up [TS]

  with an outline and thinking about stuff [TS]

  and also thinking maybe to be really short this year I don't know I mean [TS]

  changing less and less in each release as as their least time has it gotten [TS]

  shorter right but like I don't know why I have to say I thought I think it will [TS]

  be shorter I think that's been the trend because they have been doing last but [TS]

  you never know when I often somewhere tangent [TS]

  yeah maybe knowing you you're probably not going to be the reviews sure I'll [TS]

  just give you more space and time to expand on things that you would have [TS]

  otherwise not gonna not not a time to get to attempt six review I thought that [TS]

  was going to be super short because like Apple come out front 0 new features like [TS]

  this is gonna be sure of you and it was but it wasn't as sure as I thought it [TS]

  was going to be like you know a few thousand words less it wasn't like a [TS]

  whole lot and that's what I think will be sure still below say I don't have to [TS]

  its quantity is not that I just quality I wanted to be interesting [TS]

  good so concentrate on that assuming I ever finish reading and start writing [TS]

  and speaking of shorter things this might be a short episode because we have [TS]

  a laundry list of miscellaneous topics but I know how much will actually get to [TS]

  you now that I've stated it's a shorter episode were gonna go for two hours [TS]

  several buckle up anytime and John and dam would say I'm just going to be a [TS]

  short one of hypocritical I would always immediately take out my phone from you [TS]

  know walking the dog and just look at the time stamp and just see how much [TS]

  sand it's always like you know a hundred and ten minutes remaining or something [TS]

  and I my listeners did a good job and did like statistical regression analysis [TS]

  to see that it was going to be a shorter show it did not in fact make the show [TS]

  longer and actually made it slightly shorter statistics to know whether like [TS]

  the statisticians arguing amongst themselves about there was significant [TS]

  or not but there was no clear trend the opposite just seems that way it's like [TS]

  you know it seems like it because it's the opposite of what you would expect in [TS]

  it stands out in your marriage but in reality they were actually not a longer [TS]

  I love that both your audience and you know that that somebody actually went to [TS]

  Lincoln [TS]

  so one of the things I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about and this may [TS]

  or may not take very long but there's been a couple are there were a couple of [TS]

  a new Apple videos that were shown Monday on the keynote Monday they were [TS]

  both Monday and the first one was the one that was at the very beginning of [TS]

  the keynote itself and I don't know if it has a title it probably doesn't am [TS]

  not aware of but it was a fairly abstract black-and-white kind of almost [TS]

  essay about what Apple does in order to design products and to my recollection I [TS]

  don't remember them ever having started with a video I think we talked about [TS]

  this briefly what upsets ago but they actually started with a video this year [TS]

  and I thought was a very interesting video that basically said he listened [TS]

  and the way I interpreted it was you know this is how we do our thing and if [TS]

  you don't like it tough nuts and I was curious what you two had to think I had [TS]

  to say about that start with another Mac PC ads they start a couple keynotes with [TS]

  those didn't start last year's keynote know the guy at the guy walking in the [TS]

  woods who has blocked it was like lights dim everyone you know gets ready to hear [TS]

  something instead of a person walking out on stage they just play video and I [TS]

  think the only time they've done that are when they were showing ads like you [TS]

  know the Mac PCs with Justin Long and [TS]

  hodgman billion you can kind of argue that they're all hats like to know tell [TS]

  television has ever gonna run television they were played our custom ones like [TS]

  where this was not going to share on television but those characters come up [TS]

  with a different about this one is it wasn't it wasn't fun wasn't was like [TS]

  funny and it wasn't an advertisement using known properties are showing [TS]

  progress something it was more like a mission statement [TS]

  kind of a statement of philosophy or whatever and I thought I i said i think [TS]

  im in the first then the pockets but it right after the keynote that that was [TS]

  like ok this is gonna be something big like like when the video begins with in [TS]

  the course of human events like I got Apple is star opening Apple Store on the [TS]

  moon and they're like it's going to be something momentous are significant for [TS]

  the company or that maybe they were buying Nintendo like something at that [TS]

  level and what followed in the Keno did not live up to that lofty goal and so [TS]

  then in hindsight the video was beautifully produced very interesting [TS]

  and contains a lot of you know accurate content about how Apple sees itself and [TS]

  how we see Apple comes off as pretentious because what what they [TS]

  released was great and awesome but damn video should have been saved for when [TS]

  they [TS]

  do something so you did or did not like I thought as beautiful as nicely done [TS]

  like you understand what he's saying but I feel like it was out of balance like [TS]

  you can't you can't start with that I got my god what is it going to be in [TS]

  what it is is great but not like you know I don't know maybe when could have [TS]

  gotten away with that they get away with it at the original Mac intro and [TS]

  probably the iPhone and that's about it you really think was overblown I didn't [TS]

  think was overblown at all it was a slightly over but not ridiculously [TS]

  overblown but I don't know I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that either end and [TS]

  by the way I should point out the chat room is saying that last year the Serie [TS]

  kind of comedy standup video that was the inter last year wasn't it [TS]

  yeah they did like little garage man bit like his play well it was like a rimshot [TS]

  series comedy act thanks for that that was the interest anyway I don't think [TS]

  this year's intervideo was overblown overstating the case at all i think im [TS]

  looking at looking at the keynote as soon afterwards we were all excited and [TS]

  as you said that you know we we all thought was pretty great now you know [TS]

  it's with some time for it to sink in and get a little bit less shiny looking [TS]

  back on it I still think it was awesome I still think it was a really really [TS]

  great keynote was one of the best ones I've had for years and and there was [TS]

  there was a lot not only was the energy really great and and the showmanship was [TS]

  really good with the exception of that weird car demo but besides that [TS]

  everything was great what they showed us was also pretty great you know you had [TS]

  this this revolutionary change in iOS is this a nice update OS 10 [TS]

  mediocre video for scale improvements but you know a nice update and debating [TS]

  with iOS and then like this surprise Mac Pro which most people doesn't matter but [TS]

  to a few people including the three of us it's really interesting and and an [TS]

  extremely surprising plus you know better Air MacBook Airs you know I think [TS]

  it was a really good he know if you can explain your philosophy like [TS]

  that the price they introduced four not out of character for the company or [TS]

  shocking or or like going to knock the industry on its ear or anything like [TS]

  that and so that's why it's out of bounds a little bit maybe I S seven [TS]

  might I think it would be better if you if that video if the video is just on [TS]

  their website it will be fine but using it as a lead-in to introduce a bunch of [TS]

  products that more or less everybody expected and you know like that aren't [TS]

  there are like that the original niagara the iPhone we're just like nobody saw [TS]

  that coming and it was a tough field and its parks be these expectations and I i [TS]

  don't think it's crazy out of bounds just a little bit up and I do think the [TS]

  keynote was great I think overall the announcement was great I think it was [TS]

  very impressive again except for the car thing but you know it's tough to pull [TS]

  that off like because you want all the things they said you want to say those [TS]

  things as difficult to save them without sounding a little bit full of yourself [TS]

  you what you're telling them why you're great and you have to do it in a way [TS]

  that is insulting and it's very difficult to pull that off and go away [TS]

  you can do I think different is kind of similar where think different kind of [TS]

  pulled it off because there was no attachment wasn't lead into a sort of [TS]

  price just like pure like this is a philosophy of the company and that [TS]

  didn't sound pretentious that sounded foolhardy perhaps because like you [TS]

  almost went bankrupt you've got nothing what the hell you think you're gonna [TS]

  make it to your computer so what right and in hindsight it looks right but here [TS]

  this is just in the context of using that as the lead in there they didn't [TS]

  put anything in there that video you could have you know like johnnie obvious [TS]

  where he tells you about their philosophy are more product those [TS]

  focused and would match up better with a bunch of product announcements vs like [TS]

  the philosophical thing with something revolutionary that you know if they're [TS]

  going to do business or something maybe I can see that but I like the video I [TS]

  watched it again every time I watch it I'm impressed by whoever made this video [TS]

  did an awesome job it's very clever and nice and tasteful and I do like it when [TS]

  you also i mean the video also sets the stage for iOS 7 specifically like it's [TS]

  it specifically about you know clearing away everything starting over again [TS]

  you take away with the necessary like they have their own IRA 7 interview he [TS]

  was also very good but so much more product focus in kind of hit some of the [TS]

  same hearing this this is like laying the foundation for the iOS 7 video later [TS]

  on expand more for us to accept that they were that the Iowa 77 design [TS]

  decisions were correct an inevitable that video was deleted or I think it was [TS]

  lead-in for the era where this is the first big party fairy Tim Cook's newly [TS]

  rearranged apple and what they can do and that I mean it wasn't stated as such [TS]

  but in hindsight it looks like if you had to say what was that video about it [TS]

  wasn't about a new Mac Pro and I think it was kinda about iOS 7 2007 but he was [TS]

  more about that it was it was more about its like Tim Cook's think different not [TS]

  really but like he's here we are with the new Apple to forestall as Apple [TS]

  against the New Tim Cook Apple with something new [TS]

  showing that you know we really can move on from all the things that Steve Jobs [TS]

  created just do something great in his absence i didnt foreseeing didn't have a [TS]

  hand in hindsight I think that's what the video will match up best with what I [TS]

  think I think what the video did for me was you know Apple hadn't said anything [TS]

  since 1 October November someone that was a typo in many release that was the [TS]

  last Apple event right so this was 22 me a kind of set the stage for years here's [TS]

  Apple I know we haven't said anything for almost a year now eight months [TS]

  whatever the number was here scott let me remind everyone this is how we roll [TS]

  and this is what we do and we're gonna keep that mindset while we show you all [TS]

  the school crap with the exception of the weird cardamom and I think it was a [TS]

  really nice way to set the stage wasn't overblown I mean I don't think it was [TS]

  but I can see your point john but I think it was it was all about setting [TS]

  the stage for you know this is Apple this is we are Apple this is what we [TS]

  care about and if you don't like that shut off but this is this is how the [TS]

  rest of the next few hours are gonna be [TS]

  that's what I thought I guess what about did you guys watch the video that they [TS]

  did not show during the keynote which is called making a difference when the time [TS]

  but it was something like that I was like an eight-minute video or something [TS]

  along those lines [TS]

  interminable along with it seems long in ATL deal but it is I watched all his [TS]

  beautifully produced it is nice [TS]

  heartwarming but it really depends on your own good will towards Apple to [TS]

  accept the connection between Apple and all the good things they're showing [TS]

  happening in there they are good things but are they necessarily related to [TS]

  Apple like technology helps people in all sorts of ways and all sorts of [TS]

  companies are beyond this technology and it's good that Apple technology helps [TS]

  you feel that way but I don't think it's pretty [TS]

  I don't think it's a it's distinguishing characteristic that makes Apple standout [TS]

  unlike the design video which shows you know this is what they put in a design [TS]

  video are the way that Apple is different than most other companies [TS]

  whereas I think any company that makes a technology product that can be used to [TS]

  help people could have made a video like the one that made their although these [TS]

  shows that Apple Care is that this is how their products are this this is what [TS]

  they're thinking when they're making the products they want to see this type of [TS]

  outcome but it's easy to be cynical about it and you know like Monsanto [TS]

  gonna mean the same and it would have been like damn damn this is not really [TS]

  what my center is like that but it's kind of an appetite but on the other [TS]

  hand what technology company Microsoft video their their products are helping [TS]

  people in similar ways you know [TS]

  yeah I I really liked it part of the reason I liked it was because it [TS]

  featured charlottesville virginia which is just an hour west of here and I used [TS]

  to live there but beyond that I thought it was really touching a heartwarming [TS]

  much like the blind hiker guy from last year to last year's keynote I just [TS]

  thought it was well done and you're right that you know anyone could have [TS]

  made a video like this but I i love that Apple cares enough to not only make a [TS]

  video that's like one or two minutes but they mean like eight or nine minute [TS]

  video all about why why and how their devices literally improve people's lives [TS]

  and I just think it's cool that [TS]

  they even pay lip service to that being a priority [TS]

  whether or not it is a priority although I would argue it is given all their [TS]

  accessibility priority work and things of that nature and our market would you [TS]

  thing we didn't see the videos nevermind I don't know what I mean like the reason [TS]

  I think it's because Tim was there during the intro and afterwards talking [TS]

  about to say to say this is not just a heartwarming video let me tell you [TS]

  personally from my heart in a convincing way that this is what makes me get out [TS]

  of bed in the morning this is what I'm trying to do with the company and he's [TS]

  the CEO and like that that makes out on land more as having this video is kind [TS]

  of out there is a corporate statement it's nice and all I think it's fine but [TS]

  I don't mean specially 10 minutes long like if you're going to use it as a [TS]

  something to represent your company watch that video very few people except [TS]

  you mean apparent certainly not yeah I have so many Apple videos that I want to [TS]

  watch all the things I still have like eight or nine sessions that I wanna walk [TS]

  chance to see so that's another thing I'm doing celebrating the entire plane [TS]

  ride home was watching sessions and even like the day after I got home watching [TS]

  sessions and seen a member of talking before about how you know once you once [TS]

  you leave that week like it's no longer your job to do to be in the sessions and [TS]

  so you never got around to doing it well I'm seeing that now and I have a more [TS]

  sessions that I really want to watch but like to do it I'm assigning it to you [TS]

  it's your job since you don't have any other job and you're unemployed what [TS]

  else do your friends and after something but I'm saying now that's the job starts [TS]

  in a few weeks this week your job and then give then give John the cliff notes [TS]

  or anything related to myself I know you do there were a couple other videos I [TS]

  want to briefly touch on the first was i dont member they showed the strain the [TS]

  keynote I believe they did at the very end but the new commercial about [TS]

  designed by Apple in California [TS]

  and this kind of ties in with the one we mentioned at the beginning and that was [TS]

  at the beginning of the key know where they said at the end of the video [TS]

  something along the lines of its only then we signed our work and then they [TS]

  flash up designed by Apple in California and this other video they show people [TS]

  just using their products and everyday things and everyday scenarios and it [TS]

  again at the end it's designed by up in California so one of the things you can [TS]

  easily see between these two videos that literally bookended the keynote and then [TS]

  OS 10 Mavericks which was in the middle by the way still hate that name and all [TS]

  of this is Bill California a California California and one wire when did they [TS]

  get so excited about California not to say that spanned before we get a zillion [TS]

  angry californians but when did this become a thing that's been on the back [TS]

  of our products may be sure but I mean it seems like there's a new emphasis [TS]

  behind it and I don't well it's not about California and more about made in [TS]

  the USA at this point I think I mean you know that the California pride is always [TS]

  been there and you're right that was that was like a lot jobs are out there [TS]

  but I think at this point this is them saying it kind of responding to all the [TS]

  all the Chinese worker controversy to kind of things in the last year saying [TS]

  you know what know we can bring something to the us- and now this is [TS]

  something they can say like to see what the Mac Pro now they can really say like [TS]

  you know look this is like a whole us' computer right here as long as you don't [TS]

  check where the where the hell yeah I mean like he was a 60 per user a [TS]

  manufacturing taxes they are but what about all the flash and the deer am [TS]

  Casey just said about like he liked the video because it showed up part where he [TS]

  lives like this this you know the silly notion that we have of attachment to [TS]

  play some sort of you and you know extension to like jingoism and [TS]

  nationalism of pride in countries really pretty much nonsensical if you think [TS]

  about it for more than 10 minutes but it is definitely a real things I don't [TS]

  blame them for playing into it but I like the cynical view is alongside you [TS]

  give you is damage control for the Chinese factory things are never [TS]

  pride in california is no more or less ridiculous than pride in the United [TS]

  States is probably no more or less ridiculous than pride is making homemade [TS]

  on earth like doesn't really matter where it's made or where you're from [TS]

  that is it a good product is not a good product are you treating workers well [TS]

  you're not treating workers well you know our country needs to have a good [TS]

  economies of keep the business in our company not just else country because of [TS]

  imaginary lines or oceans or whatever like that you know i i find that that's [TS]

  what my design California bothers me a little bit like who cares what is it [TS]

  about count what is it about the borders of California or that exists you know [TS]

  historical reasons that have nothing to do with anything that makes you proud [TS]

  that the people who made it here in California when they made it and perhaps [TS]

  live somewhere else now and perhaps were born somewhere else in the chatroom I'm [TS]

  so ready to join Starfleet apparently I was like I don't know what their I don't [TS]

  think the by I think the by california takes away from the message but they are [TS]

  as they're proud that we made this thing and this thing is good in these ways in [TS]

  the show the people using the products and having fun with them and you know [TS]

  it's also beautifully shot all the people are beautiful and you know like [TS]

  that part of it is illegitimate message like hey we made something nice and our [TS]

  products enhance people's lives so thumbs up right guys its advertising its [TS]

  fine I Q tu CA nun madman but the geographic part of it I find a little [TS]

  off-putting the probably other people don't look california is itself also [TS]

  part of the advertising and you know it's not like they chose California just [TS]

  for this but I think they're using it to their advantage of their at their [TS]

  california has a reputation among I think most most people most americans [TS]

  especially being this this like really nice place and and kinda school place in [TS]

  this kind of liberal hippie but cool great weather place like and not like [TS]

  we're leaving out a you know I like there aren't that many states in the USA [TS]

  with that great of reputation and we're like you can say oh yeah we're we're [TS]

  from minnesota and you're gonna have like everyone from everyone in the whole [TS]

  country singer [TS]

  Minnesota they made that Minnesota that's so cool like it isn't this is [TS]

  like a major effect or a major part of their marketing branding efforts but it [TS]

  is a small contributor and especially in the wake of both the Chinese worker [TS]

  thing and the wake of Samsung become a major competitor this is i'm saying you [TS]

  know don't support that Korean company this is awfully like thats Sharon starts [TS]

  to get into you know anyway I think it's fine I get there are politicians have to [TS]

  end everything with god Bless America but like you can see why they do it send [TS]

  email to Marco please I think the California thing that to my knowledge my [TS]

  memory came in around time jobs came back again and it stayed throughout and [TS]

  it's shorthand for we're proud that we did this and they need someone to [TS]

  identify themselves and they are a California company founded in california [TS]

  and so that's what they've chosen because their employees coming go there [TS]

  executives coming go a lot of the people who work there weren't born in [TS]

  California like they don't have much to hang their hat on but insofar as a [TS]

  corporation can be seen as an entity with the place apples places california [TS]

  so that's the shorthand for trying to refer back to themselves and their tribe [TS]

  as a collective entity known to that end I mean when you think of health warning [TS]

  you think the business other than hollywood and perhaps music what's your [TS]

  first thought when I look at it was alright nevermind then know what I mean [TS]

  when I think of a big big business in California I think hollywood I think [TS]

  music and I think Apple and and i would i would think that most Americans would [TS]

  agree there's one of the video wanted to ask you guys about and then perhaps [TS]

  Marco you can talk about something that's cool but the other one I wanted [TS]

  to ask about his today which again is quite a long time before most of you [TS]

  will actually hear this episode the trailer for the Ashton Kutcher's Steve [TS]

  Jobs movie came out [TS]

  did either of you see this two-minute trailer please tell my dad I did watch [TS]

  it didn't I thought that maybe this is the other Steve Johnson who you know the [TS]

  good one because the film festival and everyone Pandit like a year ago [TS]

  well sorry no I think said mixed about it he said was honored if memory serves [TS]

  he said was entertaining but not great I never had high hopes for this movie in [TS]

  the trailer did not change my mind about that I don't think I even bother [TS]

  watching so our friend Brad that while john you've never met him but when I and [TS]

  David Smith went and spent some time with Brad at the Sunday before I WBC he [TS]

  had commented on Twitter that the music Bowl selections were just terrible music [TS]

  lighting was terrible and I think he's right but I actually think the trailer [TS]

  was bad i mean it is clearly taking a lot of creative license with the actual [TS]

  reality of what happened I thought it would guarantee the question Casey if [TS]

  you are tasked with making a parody of this trailer how would you do it I would [TS]

  have made the same trailer that's what it is not like it is overblown and [TS]

  ligation or the fact that it is complete the people who made the movie just i [TS]

  mean clearly people made his move we do not and cannot understand what it was it [TS]

  was important about all these things that Apple did just fine I guess because [TS]

  of other people don't care like just treat this fiction but even within the [TS]

  realm of fiction it's so overblown wherever it's just screaming and so [TS]

  emotional and dramatic about things and then they're saying nonsense the whole [TS]

  time right because again people they don't understand what was important [TS]

  about the Apple 12 what was important about the macro wasn't worried about [TS]

  that they have no idea like no clue what kind of like the Steve Jobs biography [TS]

  where but even more extreme the addicts environment where if you don't [TS]

  understand what was important about the original Mac there's no way you can make [TS]

  a movie about right that's their goal is not to be accurate their goal is to be [TS]

  is to be like good to watch to be a but it's not like you know I think it's not [TS]

  so much that's not the case my mother was a lot of political dramas are things [TS]

  about important parts in American history like [TS]

  Lincoln movie which I didn't see I'm assuming that movie understood there was [TS]

  important about the Civil War was like you know keeping the Union together and [TS]

  slavery and like the major issues were there and understood right because it's [TS]

  about technology and it's it's not as important as the things that everyone [TS]

  can relate to it they don't know what was important what was important about [TS]

  the Apple to they're not quite sure but I know is important to know people get [TS]

  rich from it and they know something new with nerds and electricity just go in i [TS]

  mean whereas now it's like something about slavery but was later I think [TS]

  slavery was bad like I don't remember something about that but anyway that's [TS]

  not really just wanna show the dramatic scenes I've ever had no you have to [TS]

  understand what's behind it or not you know you're making a movie loosely based [TS]

  on the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln not really so whatever like I don't think [TS]

  this movie is going to make any waves it will come and go you'll forget it [TS]

  mercifully about just just a blanket rule that I'm not you know watch any [TS]

  trailers for any D Steve Jobs various things just anybody just let me know the [TS]

  circuit on his knee during on yes yes he did know this is not that he didn't know [TS]

  this is a terrible seizure when NNN now that's not fair [TS]

  there was one made by funnyordie that I wasn't dumb enough to watch in its [TS]

  entirety and I want that our pack the kids show like it is and it was so [TS]

  painfully bad in the comedy of it is Justin Long is Steve Jobs Justin Wong [TS]

  the iMac Justin Long with Steve Jobs and I should have known from the title which [TS]

  i think was I jobs that it was going to be friggin terrible and freaking [TS]

  terrible doesn't begin to describe how bad that movie was asked if it goes on [TS]

  for an hour [TS]

  yes but during that terrible time in SNL when it was not even in the realm of [TS]

  funny I feel like John Surtees right now I'm so fired up an angry about this [TS]

  well let's take a break from talking about terrible let's do that talk about [TS]

  good and this episode is sponsored by Audible [TS]

  a leading provider of a downloadable audiobooks they have over a hundred [TS]

  thousand titles in virtually every genre so if you wanna listen to something [TS]

  audible has it listen to audio books anytime anywhere [TS]

  you can listen to them on iPhones iPads computers candles lots of things even [TS]

  the old iPods even work on those they're offering ATP listeners a free audiobook [TS]

  along with a 30 day trial go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP take advantage [TS]

  of the special offer get a free audiobook free 30 day trial audio [TS]

  audible podcast dot com slash ATP now audible likes if their hosts have [TS]

  something to recommend a certain book it helps to know to get started then you [TS]

  know like ok what do you want your free audiobook to be so do you have any any [TS]

  great recommendations of of great audio books you've heard recently I've [TS]

  recommendations of books I've read I've not heard them on audio books that they [TS]

  are excellent I've to the first one which everyone will judge me for is the [TS]

  new Dan Brown book which I believe is called Inferno attorney judge judge so I [TS]

  actually quite like that one but I'm a sucker for Dan Brown books are easy [TS]

  reads their exciting and so I like that the other one is a book that my wife [TS]

  recommended which is called the art of racing in the rain and it was a little [TS]

  bit on the emotional side and a little less on the racing side but there was [TS]

  enough racing to keep me excited and entertained and I actually really like [TS]

  that one as well so I would recommend both of this that's so you [TS]

  yeah I know but here's what is good for I would never recommend someone read [TS]

  this recommendation by mistake but an audio this is the ideal place for its [TS]

  outlook on what I did when I was looking at I when I went to the article I come [TS]

  up Sunday sir stephen king is one of my favorite authors again feel free to [TS]

  judge Janet hundred hundred and forty-five results which doesn't [TS]

  surprise me cuz he's got a lot of books but they have i mean they have all the [TS]

  lottery and when I'm going to recommend is the Dark Tower series by Stephen King [TS]

  which is like a gazillion pages and line them up on the shelf in hard currency [TS]

  are you sure you read this book series would be like ok whatever I'm [TS]

  there's no way I'm reading that because it's just too much you can recommend one [TS]

  book and iCal maybe I'll read and see if I like it but recommending 27 book [TS]

  series of that took place over the course of my entire life from you know [TS]

  from nineteen seventies and it ended in the 2010 but an audio they have every [TS]

  single one of these an audio and if you're on a long car trip or you gonna [TS]

  be traveling hurry just you know listen to it over the summer at the beach when [TS]

  you're out on the lawn just get every single one of the seven books and just [TS]

  plow through them and that is probably the only way most people are ever going [TS]

  to read a book multi-housing page a pic like Dark Tower and it is we haven't [TS]

  done the encounter a podcast about the series that we will eventually I think [TS]

  it's great even when it goes off the rails little bit I think it all comes [TS]

  together and that's my recommendation and this is also I would like to say [TS]

  that one reason I do like audio books especially first of all you travel in [TS]

  cars and everything it's awesome for that but one thing I like about them is [TS]

  actually like when a lot of books are bridged because a lot of books need to [TS]

  be abridged if I hate when their bridge I was gonna specifically mentioned these [TS]

  darker ones are unabridged which I'd like has both so if you're the kind of [TS]

  person who doesn't wanna hear all the words in the book they have that for you [TS]

  but I highly recognized showtitle there you go [TS]

  thank you very much to audible response from this episode of ATP to get a free [TS]

  audiobook and 30 day trial go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP thanks a lot [TS]

  alright so what's next alright so the other thing I wanted to ask you guys [TS]

  about and perhaps more Marco than anyone else since you haven't done any of your [TS]

  other homework what do you what do you suspect people will do what I think [TS]

  we've touched on this briefly but what do you suspect app developers will will [TS]

  do with regard to dropping support of old versions of iOS when I was seven [TS]

  comes out I feel like we've glanced off the outer outer atmosphere this topic [TS]

  but I think there's more to be said so let's suppose that you haven't sold [TS]

  everything that you own and let's suppose you still had at least one [TS]

  popular app be that [TS]

  and to something else or Instapaper whatever what what do you think you [TS]

  would do i mean you've said another podcast in the 300 other podcast here on [TS]

  this week that you're probably going to stick with I was 7 for this new thing [TS]

  definitely but what do you think you would do if you had not had a successful [TS]

  existing iOS app that's a really good question because he obviously I think if [TS]

  you think if you're making a new apt and you have no legacy to support I would [TS]

  say no question [TS]

  make a brand new one and and and require I was seven period not question you [TS]

  can't say no question was so so you're saying EA you gonna release a game for [TS]

  now as well as dependent developer like one or two person job making [TS]

  applications and especially I am also referring to applications where they are [TS]

  custom making most of their entire interface like you know a game has [TS]

  usually an entirely custom interface that doesn't use any standard wages or [TS]

  anything [TS]

  most cases however no didn't exist but there they they formed a company six [TS]

  months ago and they're about to come out with their for US products gonna be [TS]

  called ever notice note-taking type thing you know and and I would still say [TS]

  don't make it I was like yeah I think that is a luxury that you have if you [TS]

  know that well eventually because the other side of the coin is you can stand [TS]

  out from the pack by being I was only being only out that accurately links up [TS]

  at Iowa submitted but I guess I Microsoft Office of another example of [TS]

  their new I was offices not all that impressive if Microsoft Office came out [TS]

  like a real microsoft office not just like SkyDrive application lets you view [TS]

  and edit out they can do that they have to support iOS 6 we can't say only [TS]

  microsoft office 2007 only because that is no advantages and disadvantages so [TS]

  it's not quite as universal as you're saying but for you I definitely is [TS]

  universal in for lots of other people it's a way to stand out from the pack [TS]

  because if you were the first to do out that is truly Iowa 787 look feel and [TS]

  functionality you stand out more than if you just make [TS]

  go to app that works and I was six and so yeah I mean and part of it [TS]

  part of it also is about why your app exists right if you are somebody like [TS]

  Evernote or like Instagram or Twitter [TS]

  a big web service where your primary business is not selling your app for a [TS]

  few bucks your primary business is this big web service especially with [TS]

  something social where you need to have as many people as possible then you [TS]

  should be complete you should be compatible with any person as possible [TS]

  then you might still need running iOS 5 who knows probably not by but you [TS]

  couldn't go seven only so soon because that would really hurt your bottom line [TS]

  to lose all those like free users like that that would hurt the bigger product [TS]

  too much probably for a while and you know similar like you know if if you're [TS]

  that kind of company you should probably also have an Android app and Windows [TS]

  Phone app and and even a Windows 8 app just to get you need to be everywhere [TS]

  right but that most people most iOS developers are are doing one or two [TS]

  situations either they're doing contract work for somebody else which is i would [TS]

  assume based on just anecdotal evidence and talking to people everywhere I would [TS]

  assume that contractors are probably the bulk of the people programming for iOS I [TS]

  would I would if not the majority I bet there are massive portion anyway so if [TS]

  your contract or somebody else you might not be able to make this choice or at [TS]

  least not yet or are you might not be able to be aggressive with it so you [TS]

  know that that will depend on your client and your business needs but if [TS]

  you're in the second half of developers like what I usually do which is you know [TS]

  you sell a nap for money and [TS]

  you know in some form whether it's whether it's the magazine with a net [TS]

  purchase or something other than a purchase or whether it's a few bucks up [TS]

  front for the applicants per Instapaper you know that kind of stuff if you're in [TS]

  that business we need to make money from the app and you're better off having a [TS]

  better after people will talk about it i think is worth money and you're better [TS]

  off targeting people who will spend money on a nap then not only does that [TS]

  weight you more towards newer devices and people who have great quickly anyway [TS]

  but then you really can stand out by as you said you really can't stand out by [TS]

  having a really really nice iOS 7 app from early on in in at Oasis release [TS]

  cycle so if you know if if you're in that kind of situation and obviously I [TS]

  think it's very important to recognize whether you are not but if you're in [TS]

  that kind of situation where you can benefit from having a really great app [TS]

  for the new OS and you're targeting people with money then I think it's very [TS]

  safe to require it within about a month of the launch I think one thing everyone [TS]

  can agree on is teaming up with a more accurate and I have no reason to doubt [TS]

  them is that it's probably safer for everyone if you're making a new [TS]

  application to drop iOS 5 oh yes because six their 93% like it doesn't matter who [TS]

  you are that's safe right at this point [TS]

  her in the iPad then a little bit less safe [TS]

  yeah because you have an aptitude specifically targeted to people who are [TS]

  likely to have called iPads but it is not getting any safer than that when [TS]

  it's like when you can have a higher number than that in adoption as a lot of [TS]

  people are pointing out and where should I have maybe one person I cannot cue [TS]

  track very these things like I was seven probably won't be like that because iOS [TS]

  6 stretched back pretty far like a surprisingly farm-out down to like lower [TS]

  grab your devices as I was seven draws the line a little bit closer up and so [TS]

  will probably will have to wait for the soul devices day job and will probably [TS]

  be a long long time before that's 7 or greater that's not true they [TS]

  specifically of my credit iPod touch that runs iOS 6 and totally shouldnt the [TS]

  3G s no I'm not [TS]

  3ds is the other example like the run I was six but for now but when 27 go down [TS]

  to it goes into the iPhone 4 it supports everything the six does accept the 3ds [TS]

  and that iPhone four chords Touch and iPod Touch except in the most reason [TS]

  right the one that was based on the iPhone 4 internals it does not support [TS]

  that but it supports all the recent ones and everything is good for the cheapest [TS]

  one until two weeks ago only the only iPod touches of course is the absolute [TS]

  most recent one right it doesn't but that's a little bit distorted because [TS]

  they like skip the year [TS]

  attacks which as you know view of things is in my view of things also skewed [TS]

  because I'm an iPod Touch household so it seems to me it's like it's it's like [TS]

  if they can have them with maverick's in the only connects it ran on her like the [TS]

  absolute latest model is there still currently selling each product line and [TS]

  you know but the proof is in the pudding how well it how well does it run is what [TS]

  really matters to you know i i wish i had not upgradeable Touch iOS 6 music [TS]

  teacher fucks you know and so yeah it can run it and I was like initially [TS]

  happy that it was supported and I guess I'll probably still on because I [TS]

  probably better apps for iOS 6 only if I can run them but it is not happy at all [TS]

  yeah yeah you know i i think i think seven cuts off about the same number of [TS]

  people probably a six dead and I don't have an iPod touch as well but if your [TS]

  iPad user cut off nothing so that balances out anyway yeah I I'm not that [TS]

  worried about about cutting off new devices 47 because I don't think it's [TS]

  substantially different than every other OS release in that regard so yeah I [TS]

  don't know at and I think we are going to see some people holding back because [TS]

  they don't like the changes just like some people held back because of the [TS]

  heat they heard about maps reveron 640 or their jail breaks don't work until a [TS]

  certain date afterwards or something like that that does all those are all [TS]

  gonna be like small slices and they're all going to add up to something [TS]

  significant but its that's there are going to deteriorate over time in jail [TS]

  break out for 47 if there isn't already but what you know once once a jailbreak [TS]

  app [TS]

  out then one of those big slices goes away once there's no end to various [TS]

  degrees of tethering for the jailbreak then everything changes once most people [TS]

  get a little more comfort with the idea of how it looks then another slice [TS]

  starts falling away once a new device comes out that replaces something that [TS]

  was old and unsupported like maybe when the next generation of iPod Touch comes [TS]

  out possibly this fall who knows maybe then some of the old iPod Touch users [TS]

  who can't run the new one maybe they upgrade and so then that price falls [TS]

  away so that's always what happens with every release there's always a TV [TS]

  segments of people who either can't or won't run the new OS for a little for a [TS]

  limited amount of time until either they change devices they're all device dies [TS]

  or some conditions changes that was all in the back so we're talking almost [TS]

  sounds like if he still had Instapaper you would make it I was seven [TS]

  well no Instapaper still doesn't require a six I Instapaper III was set on [TS]

  requiring five for a while I forget when I started requiring five but it was it [TS]

  was before six was out but not by that much i think you must be 46 came out and [TS]

  you know with the magazine I was able to require six because I just didn't care [TS]

  and I want all the new stuff and wanted to use a venir next without having to [TS]

  pay for trial was five but but again you know I think this beautiful factors here [TS]

  right obviously if you don't need tons and tons of people necessarily if you [TS]

  just need good app sales that's different if it was a brand new app [TS]

  being released today I would probably require well today require six but I [TS]

  don't know I think if it already required six and therefore if it had [TS]

  already cut off all the iPad 1 people then I wouldn't have that much of a [TS]

  problem requiring 7 within about two months of 7 release also you also have [TS]

  to consider that the the fall back the the looking for but in order to support [TS]

  both I was 7916 it stands to reason it's a lot more challenging than than [TS]

  simultaneously supporting [TS]

  six and five you know what I mean so another well not necessarily depends [TS]

  right the magazine supports seven with a very very small coaching it's just like [TS]

  you know it it it's hidden under the status bar accidentally change that [TS]

  that's it it's a very small change and you can conditionally do that you know [TS]

  when it's 17 do this otherwise do this you know if there's enough of those [TS]

  conditions that manageable I think the big problem with three quick with trying [TS]

  to support 796 the same time isn't necessarily the code complexity cuz you [TS]

  can make that work you know for the most part you can deal with that the big [TS]

  problem is by not fully adopting sevens new interface stuff your Apple look old [TS]

  and feel right that's the big problem is it's not about code [TS]

  well it it would be about code if you actually need to rewrite if you write [TS]

  two separate interface than it is about please don't do that let's you know if [TS]

  if it just about you know we have to work on both then what you're gonna have [TS]

  is an iOS 6 out that happens to be compatible with seven and it's going to [TS]

  look and feel like an iOS except for the most part really like the new bar styles [TS]

  once you compile it for seven and stuff but it it won't get you won't have any [TS]

  of the new navigation stuff and it'll be it'll be a lot harder for you to add [TS]

  that in to an existing code base that has to also run sex all the time but [TS]

  there's a potential pitfall in this though in the you could also end up with [TS]

  to use it was technology and application with full address to remember those [TS]

  before the draw as an artist and yeah I can to 10.32 is it was like one of one [TS]

  of their flag pole UI elements that said here's my goal is 10 and it's got a [TS]

  thing called sheets to come down from the window that was a new thing called [TS]

  the doc that's new [TS]

  also got this thing called runners and the mail application after application [TS]

  originally featured roar and everybody said all of these jurors I'm [TS]

  applications of any kind of application that would they have a sidebar and the [TS]

  drawer and resin is up to being not such a great idea and so all these people I [TS]

  got going to be a native application and I'm not going to carbon application [TS]

  we're young music it's gonna be cocoa and use drawers and all the stuff in [TS]

  looking at him and then there was like you know not so much in the drawer thing [TS]

  and then you're stuck without occasion withdraws you know how I gotta changes [TS]

  to a sidebar so we don't know what is the equivalent address if anything maybe [TS]

  there's no good one of drawing I was 70 I would have done it might be there [TS]

  might be something in there that's like that that seems like a good idea never [TS]

  jumped on the bandwagon in systolic is nominated for real iOS 7 application and [TS]

  then everyone goes who actually not so great and he then you're forced to [TS]

  rewrite parts of you I because that entire enterprise element or some aspect [TS]

  of it is falls out of favor or is determined to not be a good idea not [TS]

  that argues against doing you really should go whole hog and Iowa seven [TS]

  because you know something's gotta find out if there are any drawers to continue [TS]

  to talk to this analogy lurking don't know where you're going to find out its [TS]

  people make real applications using the system that Apple has devised and we'll [TS]

  find out what works and what doesn't write you know I think if I were to [TS]

  wager a guess I think will happen is a lot of these big gaps say like Evernote [TS]

  maybe that's a little too big but take Instapaper for example maybe the maybe [TS]

  they'll try to dance the you know will still look like iOS 6 for the most part [TS]

  we're not gonna look like the fancy new iOS 7 thing and I don't think that's [TS]

  going to work for very long I think that even your average customer's is gonna [TS]

  say why does this look so old why doesn't it look better and I suspect [TS]

  that people will hedge and in the direction of not requiring requiring I [TS]

  was seven and Marco I think you'll end up right that people will quickly end up [TS]

  requiring it after just couple months and also you know it's gonna take a [TS]

  little while for developers to realize what they should do under iOS 7 you know [TS]

  this is why like i've i've said like as soon as we get a tattoo is actually [TS]

  might be before the spices released but as soon as we get a tattoo on his domain [TS]

  phone because I need to start learning it and I you know I have done this for [TS]

  us but I hardly ever use the Force training data plans its peace talks but [TS]

  I have an iPhone so it's never my pocket I'm never using it like I need to get to [TS]

  immerse myself in iOS 7 has a user understand how my app should be and and [TS]

  it's gonna take develop a while too [TS]

  to get into that I think to the 2004 US in the five have the same size same I [TS]

  don't remember I'm not sure I guess I could pop over if they do that's what I [TS]

  was gonna say is if it were me I mean I don't have a full screen screen is the [TS]

  the ones gonna kill you before design better than the five design in terms of [TS]

  like an object they had the short screen you like if you can't go back once you [TS]

  get the tolerance gonna be the same way when the iPhone + comes out but it's a [TS]

  description that actually no they're not the same sympathize with anyone have to [TS]

  suffer through this message and you in mind that my carry phone is a for SU [TS]

  that's something I can be fun [TS]

  all right we have a second bunch of this week this is a new sponsor its called [TS]

  transporter and you might have heard about this from other tech podcast [TS]

  because they're sponsoring all my favorite shows so you probably have [TS]

  heard them already but we're going to talk about them anyway this is [TS]

  transporter so here's the idea sharing the occasional photo movie or document [TS]

  online is simple enough but trying to share and protect entire collections of [TS]

  files is far from simple there are solutions out there to do this but most [TS]

  of them are cloud solutions they require either recurring fees or a lack of [TS]

  privacy or it's a lot of complexity transporters special it's your own [TS]

  private shared drive that you own and control but it's available from all your [TS]

  devices and can even share folders other transporters you choose anywhere around [TS]

  the world so it's basically it's a hard drive enclosure with special software on [TS]

  it and a network port and so all your data is stored directly on the [TS]

  transporters hard drive its only share with people you specify and so it's [TS]

  completely private [TS]

  unlike most cloud services and best of all it's really really easy to use [TS]

  you can just send an invitation to somebody that you want to share folder [TS]

  with anything they accept it and that's it so obviously there's an obvious [TS]

  comparison here to Dropbox and what I love about transporters that they are [TS]

  not afraid for us to talk about Dropbox they are unafraid [TS]

  to themselves talk about Dropbox and how they compare cause obviously one [TS]

  question is why not just use Dropbox they attack the special head on because [TS]

  they are confident in their product to say that there actually are a lot of [TS]

  advantages here so one of the biggest advantages is that you only control the [TS]

  hardware and that gives you a level of control and privacy that you really [TS]

  can't get with most of our services including Dropbox anytime data is [TS]

  transmitted you can let you know you can have to transporters that shareholders [TS]

  than the files will sync everything to modify something or you can you can have [TS]

  a transporter home and be somewhere like on your iPad or laptop and pull files [TS]

  off the using one of their apps what's great about this is the file never [TS]

  passes through transporter servers and all data along the way is encrypted [TS]

  end-to-end and only you have the key and it's only stored locally in those apps [TS]

  storage so it's never transmitted over the Internet [TS]

  nobody a transporter nobody on their servers has access to the data nobody [TS]

  has the keys over there their staff can't read your data [TS]

  you know if they get some kind of weird government request they can't do [TS]

  anything cuz they can't read the data it's really great end-to-end encryption [TS]

  so it's a level of privacy control that a lot of businesses need a lot of people [TS]

  feel safe having so transporter is sold in three of you figure options you can [TS]

  get one empty for 200 bucks at 199 200 bucks accuse any two and a half inch [TS]

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  you can get a one terabyte model for $2.99 or a two terabyte model for $3.99 [TS]

  any way to learn more go to File transporter dot com slash ATP and [TS]

  special deal for all of you wonderful listeners if you buy them from their [TS]

  online company store at file transporter store.com you can use the coupon code [TS]

  ATP all lower case after you select the model that you want to buy and you get [TS]

  10% off and this is pretty good you know 10% off the 210 miles 40 bucks so that's [TS]

  that's a lot of money off so gotta file transporter dot com slash ATP to learn [TS]

  more about the school thing or you wanna buy under our coupon code go to File [TS]

  transporter store.com and use coupon code ATP thanks a lot for the [TS]

  transporter [TS]

  yeah I should say that they sent apparently I'm their favorite cuz they [TS]

  sent me a democrat it to play with and I have never really played with network [TS]

  network attached storage before in this thing was set up pretty much immediately [TS]

  and it is basically private Dropbox in the best possible way it really is [TS]

  pretty nice and I believe they coming out with a new version their software [TS]

  maker yes there's a 2.0 version it might be out by the time this podcast airs i i [TS]

  i spoke with them today and they think it might be there they're very you know [TS]

  their storage people so they're very conservative with what they really want [TS]

  to make sure it's stable and everything like that so so yes there's gonna be [TS]

  this big 2.0 version that makes the software even better and and gives you a [TS]

  lot of the conveniences that the Dropbox integration software does with things [TS]

  like finder integration and things like that [TS]

  also worth pointing out is that these capacities i mean to get two terabyte on [TS]

  Dropbox you're gonna end up in quite a lot and because this is all your local [TS]

  stories they can really give us to you and there's no recurring fee for the [TS]

  service you know you by the enclosure and and then just the pressure the [TS]

  enclosure covers lifetime service from their servers to do like the relay and [TS]

  coordination of the handshaking and and the DNS stuff to say it for your apt to [TS]

  build a fire under your transport and everything so there's no monthly fees [TS]

  you could buy it by the enclosure up front and you're set [TS]

  us before we move on out I'm have one brief thing to say but the transporter [TS]

  like i no longer nurture hear about this and I think of the first time I heard [TS]

  about it on a podcast ages ago thought like it sounds like a step backwards is [TS]

  like Dropbox are things in the cloud don't have to worry about storage [TS]

  tomorrow then these people want to sell me a hard drive in a box like to do that [TS]

  I got moved on from having a plastic box or whatever but you know at her as I [TS]

  learn more about the product looked at it like I would I do if I fast forwarded [TS]

  my mind like 10 20 years and what the border these like what got me watching a [TS]

  video on their site with a show like you know always in these videos that show a [TS]

  nice a nice house with transport is all over and everyone's work desk as a [TS]

  transport on [TS]

  never said you think of these things are already pretty small like you look at [TS]

  them to an average driver to be small but these things down in 10 20 years to [TS]

  be like similar capacities but now that his eyes of a drive and like they they [TS]

  barely need an ENG really like get all their energy wirelessly or something [TS]

  like that and have way more of them and that is actually like more of the future [TS]

  because instead of having a single central service using like Amazon s3 is [TS]

  its back under whatever you have a complete a real truly completely [TS]

  distributed system for everyone's house was just littered with the little things [TS]

  that deal with their stories in there are redundant talking to each other in [TS]

  the police secure in there is no central point of failure and people are in [TS]

  control of their own database they control so I put these three at home [TS]

  these four at work visa up and you know the vacation house or whatever and your [TS]

  own day that you get all the benefits of a cloud where you can get it anywhere [TS]

  and it's redundant and you don't have to be like oh my how our out of my house [TS]

  but I still have access to my work transporter and it synced with my home [TS]

  whenever wherever and that actually sounds more like the sci-fi books where [TS]

  it's like a distributed network of completely independent little tiny [TS]

  storage pods instead of relying on a single company to do your cloud hosting [TS]

  stuff oh yeah and plus I can you get one of these at home or at work that's going [TS]

  to be WAY cheaper than having two terabytes of s3 storage [TS]

  have to pay for every month yeah I was actually be faster to Dropbox [TS]

  occasionally gives me data rates that I know we're not anywhere close to maxing [TS]

  out my files connection and you know I don't know if they're throttling it or [TS]

  St 3 is cranky are from talking to a server in Seattle and it's far away from [TS]

  me a lot of hops but like you know even just waiting for these audio files to [TS]

  upload to you they're not going at the speed of my upload connection whereas if [TS]

  we both had transporters like the only thing you know yet but it's not actually [TS]

  a great example because that's one of the problems I have with with a lot of [TS]

  online backup services and and things like that is that like I have this [TS]

  awesome fat files connection and a lot of service can't or services can accept [TS]

  my files fast enough that's what they thought was wondering why previous [TS]

  sponsor back please why I like them so much because Backblaze can actually [TS]

  accept my my uploads really quickly and usually usually as fast as I am going to [TS]

  send them [TS]

  whereas a lot of other service can't do that but yeah this is even better this [TS]

  is just going direct from your pipe at home to wherever you are requesting it [TS]

  from anywhere thanks to thank you very much and thanks for sending at least one [TS]

  of us a democrat and I really do like it so I think anything called the [TS]

  transporter as cool as you had the movies I mean how did you get so much [TS]

  for the movie is number one hit but they're the number to see the new pretty [TS]

  well that's pretty casio has a very very popular movie series so bad it was [TS]

  entertaining it was bad what it is like the pinnacle of bad entertaining movies [TS]

  and Jason Statham the new season he is he is in so many bad entertaining movies [TS]

  that but this [TS]

  the transporter forced the first one is just like the the best example of this [TS]

  category but to use out he's the whole time so we can I believe it was a [TS]

  separate entities with the W twelves yeah they were all they were all the big [TS]

  at ease of memories I only saw the first one I think it was in a memory but it [TS]

  had the w12 engine I believe so the souped-up aid and I have another couple [TS]

  things we can talk about but I've been captain dictator so do you guys have [TS]

  something you would like to share [TS]

  John that I complain about a seven-count they're already know you do not like I [TS]

  had in my mind as soon as the keynote and I like just a little thing not a big [TS]

  deal so bad I would have just been no I am and I was not about me already [TS]

  complained about it but anyway if this is a repeat I apologize I'm old-time CA [TS]

  90249 remaining bidder talked about it in the Google Docs file that I know you [TS]

  all constantly have open there's a link to an Apple Insider article that has the [TS]

  picture I want the temperature was shown publicly 7 operating in the NBA but I [TS]

  just got out once I dot com shown you guys have his picture of town yet to [TS]

  figure out a click link from Google Docs or even just like you know market just [TS]

  thought that I was having twice look at the counter but look at the middle [TS]

  picture of the counter showing the month of you [TS]

  I think I complained about it on Twitter us when I remember you see that you say [TS]

  that like we were all in the sessions and heard that the philosophy of IRS [TS]

  seven and even in the Keno they talked about it about reno clarity and [TS]

  deferring to the content not having a lot of chrome getting in the way what's [TS]

  important about the city's wanna see this stuff and so good example of that [TS]

  is that red dot on the number seventeen in the screenshot showing you today as [TS]

  17th you look at the screen you can meet the final day today is not like a subtle [TS]

  grey highlight or a little tiny underlines the red circle today is the [TS]

  17th right not a lot of vertical lines you know separate anything and it's like [TS]

  very clean the numbers are laid out there but to me it happens me lots of [TS]

  counter apps on the Mac you know and menu bar icons anywhere [TS]

  the most important thing it especially stupid outlook for the next most [TS]

  important thing for me to know is what the hell month in my looking at that's [TS]

  really important to me like I don't know what the current month is if you see the [TS]

  current data shows no no I don't know what the current month especially when [TS]

  it's time for a month boundaries I every crossed over something and if you're [TS]

  paging through your not in the paper today what month by month by looking at [TS]

  that it's super important that is likely most important piece of content on this [TS]

  page with the possible exception of with today's date is but even today's date 10 [TS]

  months and look how we treat the month in the month you on the counter you see [TS]

  where it is in the screenshots I'm looking at the old counter app on my [TS]

  phone next to this to see for comparison and the old one it's it's it's like [TS]

  there's a second title bar below the main bar then he just hasn't big bold [TS]

  letters June 2013 [TS]

  this one says John not say June has been three-letter abbreviation and like all [TS]

  the content on this page should be just gigantic and fold and not abbreviated [TS]

  and also its gonna change position as you flip through the months of the way [TS]

  yes because it because it's like I was asking people on Twitter why in the [TS]

  world like this so in conflict with their stated philosophy like they taught [TS]

  me I think they even brought up in the talk about the possible deferred the [TS]

  content the content is king really just wanna see people just want to see their [TS]

  contact info is likely want to see your photos here I want to see what the [TS]

  friggin month is like I was not so important what we're gonna previous [TS]

  biggest more important for us to test [TS]

  attaches right above the number one in the month and you're right that it will [TS]

  not only that small not only is it not emphasize like it even less distinct the [TS]

  backbone for crying out loud it's going to move on every single page because of [TS]

  the first day as a Friday or there is there Wednesday its gonna move around [TS]

  and continue to be abbreviated and that it's so what they made so within one [TS]

  choice that is counter to what they're doing and I thought it would be like [TS]

  yeah they made a bad decision in one application those guys will fix it could [TS]

  be argued is even worse with the weird letterpress style in the inset shadows [TS]

  and suffered a big deal to make nobody's perfect have a philosophy they're saying [TS]

  this is what our philosophy is ideal ok we failed to achieve it but as time has [TS]

  passed it continues to stick in my craw that understood like having them up [TS]

  there showing this application and saying those words like you'd want to [TS]

  hide this one you gonna be like I don't look at that one without one we know [TS]

  doesn't conform to our philosophy don't show it and say is this beautiful nice [TS]

  no its not as John you know it it's bothering me more and more I am so I [TS]

  know everyone is talking about the icons on the home screen and are they going to [TS]

  change those I don't worry that the bailout plan time to refine this is this [TS]

  is what i'm looking at it as my bellwether because this doesn't require [TS]

  you redrawing of much of a conscience just require someone to go you know what [TS]

  the month is a pretty darn important thing in my view it does not deserve to [TS]

  be abbreviated it should be bigger it should be bolder and that's the kind of [TS]

  just you know dissenter it put on the same line center at looking spell it out [TS]

  plenty of room for German month names which I assume for much longer than ours [TS]

  whatever faster yeah it and I'll tell move over to the right when you come up [TS]

  here and I expected after the keynote to see in nineteen people slamming this [TS]

  because it is like the most obvious example of like you know do what I say [TS]

  not as I do and yeah well you know people have been having pointing this [TS]

  out a lot and not just bought this is the first I've seen the counter [TS]

  complaint with the people you know people included have pointed out lots of [TS]

  you know lots of just design flaws and iOS 7 so far it's important to consider [TS]

  that you know similar to how Apple the company they always look out for you to [TS]

  people think they do everything whatever is whatever the best for you that's not [TS]

  quite true they do what's best for Apple first and then secondarily what's best [TS]

  for users and and if those priorities are ever challenged what's best for [TS]

  Apple always wins [TS]

  similar to that I think we all think of Apple is this company has really great [TS]

  design sense and they do mostly but there's always been this company this [TS]

  kind of competing interests at Apple of what looks cool and what looks cool i [TS]

  think is more important overall then what's a great design to them in many [TS]

  instances and especially in software hardware they can they can often find [TS]

  the right balance in software they often don't and I think this is one of those [TS]

  examples a lot about iOS 7 for example I think using the super thin font [TS]

  everywhere I find that the extremely thin font extremely hard to read and the [TS]

  fact of the fact there is that a just legibility setting to just make the [TS]

  final little bit thicker that alone says like you know they know this too in [TS]

  somebody's fighting about internally you know there's always things like this [TS]

  with Apple software almost everything they've removed from like the you know [TS]

  quotes Kumar fix stuff from like desktop calendar and stuff like that like almost [TS]

  all these things are things that were put in there because they look cool and [TS]

  high enough up people oftentimes Stephen the past high enough people thought it [TS]

  looked cool enough to push them through even though people knew that it wasn't [TS]

  as good of a design or it wasn't as functional it wasn't as usable it wasn't [TS]

  is legible so in the case of John [TS]

  the cool thing of their preserving which many people pointed out and which i [TS]

  think is wholly not a justification for about his possible explanation is that [TS]

  when you go from the month of the year view like they wanted to the transition [TS]

  it looks like you just do me out and then [TS]

  and in the year view the months are abbreviated I think they're kind of [TS]

  makes sense because you can do the abbreviation a much larger fun you put [TS]

  three big letters you see it to left there you know like you know it will be [TS]

  harder to read September spelled out on the year ruby you make SCP really big [TS]

  for September and so they want the damn transition that John to go right into [TS]

  the Little John on the year of you in a transition and like all see it's like [TS]

  it's perfect just like how the the title slides over with the back button to [TS]

  become the title of the previous page and all that stuff like it's just [TS]

  perfect right and some was so married to that perfect transition that they could [TS]

  not bear cross fade into j'ai une right you know I mean like a cross fade from [TS]

  your view and two months you where the three-letter abbreviation cross fades [TS]

  into the name is not the end of the world but something was like no this is [TS]

  this is the transition no crossfade that's got to be its kind of feel like [TS]

  it's a real thing and that's the wrong call because it's better to sacrifice [TS]

  the purity of that transition to conform to your other supposed purity which is [TS]

  clarity and deferment to the content and what is important and just so it's [TS]

  important to the user but its own but what if something is almost as usable [TS]

  and looks really cool they will always up for that every time it's just a bad [TS]

  call is just back home one out it's not a big deal but like that's my that's my [TS]

  canary in the coalmine I'm gonna be watching to see when I'm watching to see [TS]

  when the default font a sticker I agree but going to the calendar i do think it [TS]

  was very cool and John you touched on this briefly the way the transitions [TS]

  worked and I don't have an Iowa 7 device here but my my memory tells me that when [TS]

  you went from the debut to the monthly you kinda zoomed out in back towards [TS]

  your face of them that's a terrible description but you kept zooming outward [TS]

  like you said John we went from a month you in the newseum dubbed the year of [TS]

  you and then the way the transition for the home screen is when you hit the home [TS]

  screen from the year of you when you get home but from here view you met again in [TS]

  to springboard and I just thought that was really well done really cool but I [TS]

  before you said crossfade I was thinking to myself you know that's weird why [TS]

  didn't they do across paid from month to year so not able to you know real zooms [TS]

  don't cross fade right you know [TS]

  think about all those things like I think they are good and they are they're [TS]

  really need to see but all the previous versions of iOS have pretty much [TS]

  demonstrated that the conceptual model of home screen application like that one [TS]

  level of like you're either in your home screen people get that even with the [TS]

  transactions that are not as beautiful and perfect is there I was seven because [TS]

  like you said if you tap on it and and I was 7 counter in particular BC icon [TS]

  looks like you could simply zoomed in on you know the debut and a month calendar [TS]

  is just all I go I'm just pushing back pushing back zooming in Deming NM just [TS]

  one smooth continuous experience that's great and all but it's like it's fixing [TS]

  something that wasn't really a problem because everybody very quickly Crocs [TS]

  screen with a bunch of icons you're in a period that but you go back to school [TS]

  with the money I contact everybody gets that that's a simple it's not super [TS]

  duper you know even ignoring folders with people still also kind of get but [TS]

  just that model like you're either on springboard are you in a nap and if [TS]

  you're not gonna get the springboard to hit the button you don't need the [TS]

  transition like the genie effect to say where the hell to my window I think that [TS]

  is still necessary because people click a button on their window and it went to [TS]

  disappeared they will not notice the little square P open lower right but I [TS]

  think everybody even 20 transition rocks the model eventually and certainly now [TS]

  just like oh I I get it now on the Napa but now I'm back on the screen with the [TS]

  icons I guess how those two things are arranged and so this marriage this [TS]

  particular transition is like it's too much it's killing a sledgehammer like we [TS]

  we get it we understand how do you get to and from the home screen and so like [TS]

  I don't say you shouldn't do it it's good it's nice and everything but do not [TS]

  sacrifice aspects of the application for it [TS]

  yeah I think it's gonna be a lot like like you know what like when I when I [TS]

  made the magazine 1.00 my goal was to have no setting screen and then that [TS]

  actually turned out to cause a few other bad design decisions because I was [TS]

  trying to try to reach that one goal and I had to end [TS]

  reality interfered you know I had to compromise in other ways and I didn't [TS]

  return to the wrong decision I think we're doing a lot of cases like that [TS]

  night was seven where they're they're trying to preserve something about the [TS]

  appearance or the or the structure or their principles are trying to say what [TS]

  we need to do [TS]

  do we turn this choice because of this principle that we know that this is one [TS]

  of our goals so therefore you know because this animation is going to be a [TS]

  certain way they never looked best to have John there's a June and so this is [TS]

  what we're stuck with and this is the right thing to do and eventually they're [TS]

  going to start refining and cutting back on some of these things I think or or [TS]

  are finding new ways to satisfy both like they've got principles they laid [TS]

  out and some of the principal sometime coming conflict and its ownership which [TS]

  one wins and you know picking the right winner is just as important as picking [TS]

  the correct principles who don't agree with the principles of the transition [TS]

  should be smooth an obvious and also we agree with all the content should be [TS]

  emphasizing that the chrome like if you're on board with the Iowa 7 idea run [TS]

  for both of those and it's like okay when they come in they coming conflict [TS]

  with navy don't agree with picking the transition win over you know the content [TS]

  being king [TS]

  you know or are deciding that their entire treatment of texts also clashes [TS]

  with someone be able to look at this thing at a glance and all they see is [TS]

  the content like what they want they want to know is there and not distracted [TS]

  by the interface and if people are having trouble reading these spindly [TS]

  little funds then some other aspect of the philosophy has stopped on the one we [TS]

  think should be more important right now we really that surprised either that [TS]

  Apple when creating this new is bank thing has favored the new is bank thing [TS]

  over what is arguably right in other words I don't think it's surprising that [TS]

  they're choosing John over doing something that doesn't really fit the [TS]

  whiz bang as well but is really the right answer and that's putting Junin [TS]

  that doesn't make sense but they pick these these tenants like they really [TS]

  hammered on deferment deferring to the user in the content and emphasizing the [TS]

  content over the Carmike thats Van Noten spring that on them like that they're [TS]

  not burdened with that they've chosen that is a tentpole of Iowa 7 and up to [TS]

  them to figure out like they give us all these philosophies and tenants of Iowa 7 [TS]

  they have to figure out how to reconcile these in a pleasing way and if they it [TS]

  seems to me that they're picking the wrong ones that like the one the most [TS]

  people could be on board with an example most people are on board with this ok [TS]

  good no more weird led there in Felton stuff like this not impose [TS]

  it's distracting we just want to see the information shown me my counter show me [TS]

  what the month this show me what today's data show me if I've got in the car like [TS]

  I just want the information don't distract me with fancy looking buttons [TS]

  and stuff I i think thats the one that we all agree is a good idea I was seven [TS]

  and the other ones they latched onto about their particular treatment [TS]

  typography and how things a transition like those are good and everything but [TS]

  like we really we really like the one where you are you emphasize the content [TS]

  and the girl and you know they're prioritization of those this tendency [TS]

  tennis they chose seem to be different than everyone else's despite what I mean [TS]

  all designed for all at every design is is a whole bunch a series of choices and [TS]

  most of them are not easy choices and with those put those principles they [TS]

  have almost none of them are you can just say alright well you know how [TS]

  should behave well organized as for all three of those things perfectly and make [TS]

  everything great budget doing this one option here they every time you're [TS]

  designing something developing something you're always having to compromise on [TS]

  those things and good design is about figuring out the right compromises [TS]

  there's always going to be lots of conflicting rules and principles and [TS]

  factors and everything like that and that's what makes a good designer a good [TS]

  designer is having great judgment there and then also be able to look back when [TS]

  they've been wrong and say you know what that was the wrong choice this is [TS]

  overall better to do this either way we got I guess we could I think we're good [TS]

  alright will thanks a lot to our to show sponsors audible go to a podcast dot com [TS]

  slash ATP and file transporter or just simply transporter go to File Transfer [TS]

  dot com slash ATP and thanks a lot guys [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even mean to be in accidental accidental John [TS]

  cuz it was accidental and you can be a team Marco [TS]

  I i forgot the blessing of the personal chat room you'll never get credit on the [TS]

  show tells grandchildren they used to do that on the show I do kinda like I feel [TS]

  like John Siracusa now but I don't think that really make sense in the grand [TS]

  scheme of things I feel you don't know what it feels like it's not even that [TS]

  lead we've had some fun reviews lately really I don't even read them I always [TS]

  forget the better thing I can go check them any reviews we should have like the [TS]

  you know every three months [TS]

  banking for people to reviewers because I remember the dates listed recently too [TS]

  and I i usually check them pretty obsessively but I had a long spell I [TS]

  didn't see it interruption I went back and there weren't that many new ones to [TS]

  go back to that section to show we make everybody just curious what the problem [TS]

  is that it they're not in the theme song that there's no there's no call out in [TS]

  the theme song in a way to Twitter followers are sites to ensure a good [TS]

  idea to call the theme song but every once in awhile you mentioned if you have [TS]

  a lot of use all reviews are good and most of them do their thing about having [TS]

  a show with three people on it is the most reviews your chances of them saying [TS]

  something nice about your good like this review is always something good about [TS]

  two or three people and certainly someone has turned into the bus yeah [TS]

  true that's mostly true however I cannot remember seeing a bad comment about John [TS]

  ever and if there's a bad comment i'd say it's two-thirds about how much for [TS]

  Marco is and one-third about how stupid on my bed in my bed comment [TS]

  only severe but usually what it is like the shows in Vegas hypocritical like [TS]

  this which is which is not actually a compliment to you I know but the bad [TS]

  thing they say is that my performance in the show is lesser [TS]

  and it doesn't satisfy their need for whatever they like that so I i'm getting [TS]

  off with least bad reviews but those things like most of them to his refusal [TS]

  to this is something nice about yeah but some of the content of unwanted to an [TS]

  interesting market is so full of himself but John makes up for the mall seriously [TS]

  a good listen i mean that's pretty that's pretty standard now it's a man I [TS]

  feel like nobody really insults UKC they get back in there I would love to get [TS]

  off the only bad KC-one who's this guy you know I know you don't like it in the [TS]

  middle of a very long review I think armand certeza feel that they need a [TS]

  moderator of sorts to keep the show moving I agree but they picked the wrong [TS]

  guy they picked a friend rather than someone with the requisite skill set [TS]

  Casey is in over his head I would have been too but I would have declined the [TS]

  offer [TS]

  first of all that's where you're wrong we did none of us like Casey suppose his [TS]

  entire premise is true do you think anybody could like rain arson were [TS]

  taking member when John Marable talking forever but something like it that it's [TS]

  an impossible job I don't know how to approach this diplomatically and [TS]

  delicately and some scientists say you to impossible something actually this [TS]

  was legitimately good feedback and actually to be fair made me try to work [TS]

  on something that I do think it's an issue I cases diplomatic to the point of [TS]

  plan is always tempering his point of view as if to not upset anyone ever [TS]

  which continues I miss hypocritical but having to answer keys on any podcast is [TS]

  better than and I actually think he is that that was a reasonable point I like [TS]

  the Dark Crystal [TS]

  morning us time no not Marco nothin chat rooms but I have to work with their god [TS]

  I thought I question whether I should preface that with ago have you guys [TS]

  heard that visible eye consultants like you guys heard of Star Trek like you'd [TS]

  be like I'll come on I can start I don't be stupid but not [TS]

  nevermind the chat room is catching up in there are they all hate us now so [TS]

  although I will say to go back a step Enright said I still think he's as [TS]

  marcos imaginary friend us on trial in arkansas thing anyways like what we have [TS]

  here with the three of us together is just not evenly distributed so it's like [TS]

  someone Marco self-confidence to go into Casey and ability of the shop is going [TS]

  on to me and Marco then we would have the ultimate podcast host can be very [TS]

  lonely and identity is right we all thought he was imaginary friend around [TS]

  here and then we met him [TS]

  yeah I like 10 seconds but we did meet him by the way this is real and he [TS]

  spectacular show it we have so many great show interest I don't like save [TS]

  them up we might have to do it after the evening or whatever a subsequent to the [TS]

  year before midnight I should find some bad reviews and paula creamer and read [TS]

  them all the people aren't like really mean like you know i mean like no for [TS]

  the most part there are a couple that actually stung but genuinely the truth [TS]

  but people aren't you know being like go read some reviews other podcasts and [TS]

  you'll see the problem like nobody hates us enough to read a really funny bed [TS]

  review that they only had enough to write like kind of mean reviews [TS]

  discerning intelligent and attractive people even though even the ones who had [TS]

  us are articulate enough to leave a reasonable review [TS]

  now that I think the only one that stung by a dozen sites on the one that I read [TS]

  about me pledging to much that was that was absolutely valid and it kind of [TS]

  stunned but more was like do I really do need to work on that one of me being [TS]

  over my head cover the premise Thursday is not that I don't think people [TS]

  understand that your programmer for a living with a good just some guy off the [TS]

  street but I don't know her most of the time he writes pearl how are you people [TS]

  that people think I'm like an iOS arrow estate developer and no actually inside [TS]

  forgive me for starting mutual admiration society but you know what [TS]

  about Objective C and cocoa and Cocoa Touch for someone who never does any of [TS]

  this I know he says but it's also the non-programmers don't understand is that [TS]

  a certain point and we have a certain level of experience in programming the [TS]

  mysticism of different API in languages falls away and you just kind of realize [TS]

  that it's all marlys the same stuff and like that's all the employees like this [TS]

  to like once you've been a professional programmer for five years certainly for [TS]

  ten you can see me you've been keeping your skills up or whatever you couldn't [TS]

  learning languages it's like ok well what's the equivalent of whatever in [TS]

  this language and I get like conceptually you understand everything [TS]

  is known as just a matter of Centex the same thing with API using API that has [TS]

  all these concepts and terms of you know callbacks and notifications and and [TS]

  event loops and background process like although conceptually understand the [TS]

  concepts and I was programmer you'll never understand OS 10 or you'll never [TS]

  understand on it like it's all the same stuff like this very rarely some new [TS]

  revolutionary idea that you came in grottoes just a matter of the details [TS]

  I'm going back to our design discussion I think it's something worth like you [TS]

  know most prevailing wages don't come out and do like radically totally [TS]

  unheard of ideas it's just [TS]

  they're all tradeoffs and it's a tradeoff you know like what are your [TS]

  priorities for what you're doing and therefore which had a tradeoff is the [TS]

  best for you to use for this you know like there's like it that that's why [TS]

  it's so hard to say that one languages quote better than another because you [TS]

  have made different tradeoffs an era and I think I think there is a thing where [TS]

  if someone uses one language in that language doesn't have like anonymous [TS]

  functions closures occurring or pick yer whatever feature then you will have seen [TS]

  that concept and if some of the language is heavily based on it [TS]

  not rocket you'll have to first graphic concept as well as saying like if you've [TS]

  been in the industry for a long time use lots of different languages eventually [TS]

  you know you didn't spend your entire time and see if you run across a [TS]

  language that has these features you know even if Justin Langer never had [TS]

  lexical scope and you don't understand how that works or why my beautiful like [TS]

  but I feel like just especially in today's development like the Weber you [TS]

  count like 79 what is wrong with application you get all the concepts or [TS]

  whatever but I think for non-programmers listening they will sign your expertise [TS]

  in a particular realm and decide that you can't possibly have any intelligent [TS]

  comment on the other I'm so because cases a.net program like what could he [TS]

  possibly have intelligent to say about 10 miles like you know it's it's not as [TS]

  involved that's totally fine I can't possibly understand what's going on [TS]

  there like you know talking to a database from foreign language talking [TS]

  to a database of used in Orem before well we have hard times here to view is [TS]

  just as long as we can all agree that PHP does everyone everyone agrees there [TS]

  is no there is no better or worse language except PHP which is worse are [TS]

  you feeling ok this joke languages that are worse right like brain that's worse [TS]

  you know if there is that there is levels to go down further but yes I mean [TS]

  arguably PHP is kind of a joke [TS]

  actually here's an interesting question here we say for a show which is a worse [TS]

  language PHP Javascript and PHP no contest that's i think thats I think [TS]

  there that's so much fewer moving parts so you think all those parts injury [TS]

  could worsen the part that PHP PHP has so many freakin part-time job as [TS]

  browsers you know I don't know why I think the language we just hung with the [TS]

  language the language if you're talking about moving parts were talking about in [TS]

  practice here no I mean like the language of the size of the API you know [TS]

  this is everything I think about how much it is not accessible from the API [TS]

  you know I don't know I don't think that's crappy but you know at least [TS]

  small any PHP might be worse and JavaScript but I would really have to [TS]

  like you know me in person or something like really think about it really way [TS]

  because I really do think they're not I i think they're bad news is is is closer [TS]

  than you might assume the same thing with the page we discussed on my way [TS]

  back when it's like i'm what i'm talking bout just a language in the abstract [TS]

  like terms of here the keywords his sin taxes the concepts and body then not any [TS]

  of the past two interns 123 the Packers turns into its other things come in [TS]

  threes like JavaScript the language is better than PHP as a language but you [TS]

  may say developing a real application and JavaScript houses where you know [TS]

  like then you when I'm talking about the language I always talk about the [TS]

  language in the abstract like your language designer you wanna make it [TS]

  excludes there are no real concerns at all yours [TS]

  sign language they may you design it written language syntax here the nouns [TS]

  and verbs and here's how it's structured and you know the whole nine yards I [TS]

  wanna pedal with some of the server side script [TS]

  you're so it really is we should just bank this for the next time one of us [TS]

  isn't around but anyway I want to screw around with OJ as one of the new hot [TS]

  dance so two years to have her I live in the.net well isn't that note on the [TS]

  server I think that's right yeah I think so it's really interesting that there's [TS]

  whatever I see about node.js it looks like it's probably really interesting [TS]

  right now but when you're when you're like me something you don't want to [TS]

  spend a ton of time like on the nuts and bolts of it you don't really want [TS]

  interesting you want something that was interesting five years ago so I think I [TS]

  think like node.js like whatever probably start five years from now I'll [TS]

  probably use it then his ideal project something like notice on experimental be [TS]

  something like like Manresa stuck tweet marker type service where conceptually [TS]

  again there's not a lot of moving parts like you're gonna be storing offset our [TS]

  position for people in some sort of serve a canned and what what your [TS]

  service offer acid was like basically accept a request maybe some minor [TS]

  authentication and in like gettin store number for somebody you know right it's [TS]

  crap like the icons library sucks for this then you can write that in no time [TS]

  like my first node application like the ones that love writing an echo server [TS]

  but you get all the advantages that are supposedly in odz ok does this scare [TS]

  really awesome they can is a super easy to deploy and I can run everywhere and I [TS]

  can you can you can really you know talker tested and say like ours I could [TS]

  have written anything because the amount of course i three pages of code for for [TS]

  the server part of it not the storage part not the only you know just what the [TS]

  weather out part and that's a perfect opportunity to try out something new be [TS]

  like if it doesn't work on his rewrite it in you know pick your favorite [TS]

  language and it won't be a big deal but if it does work maybe I'll get all these [TS]

  manage their runs about note you know what I think we should do is we we [TS]

  should write web websites and just straight see because that sounds great I [TS]

  did when they're trying to troll you don't really know buffer overflows in my [TS]

  career parsing code [TS]