The Accidental Tech Podcast

26: Three Phones Ago

 

  russia both her fans should have a sweat lodge thing with me more subdivisions [TS]

  that'll be the best music ever it is indeed the Friday 9th and 9th of August [TS]

  and we are recording early because one of the three of us is disappearing for a [TS]

  week again but after this we should actually be recording on a regular [TS]

  schedule and everyone keeps bemoaning the fact that our schedule changes a lot [TS]

  and I don't really blame them and everything people ask why why why don't [TS]

  you have the schedule on the on the website and the problem is 99% of the [TS]

  time it's Wednesdays at nine eastern USA time [TS]

  well that's not entirely true because we're only 25% 27 now and there's been a [TS]

  lot more than a quarter of one episode that's been on schedule [TS]

  you know what I mean I'm going to fall Wednesday night so when it's not the [TS]

  summertime and when everyone's not going crazy vacations all the time well spent [TS]

  went two of the three hills are going crazy vacations all the time of your [TS]

  life is crazy vacation yet thank you thank you [TS]

  the chatroom wants you to comment [TS]

  thank you from Apollo Zach in the chatroom want you to comment on the beta [TS]

  Instapaper web redesign USC this yet I'll into it earlier today I saw that it [TS]

  existed I haven't looked at it and I know what we have we haven't had enough [TS]

  reviews telling us that this is the market share I know really keep going [TS]

  well you guys are helped me out right now it has nothing to do with Marcos [TS]

  somebody else's product now this is the first time that I don't have a new after [TS]

  announcing the show in weeks [TS]

  riding on now by the end of something another new one no I did the big lad I [TS]

  was working on a very solid week working on a doing a whole lot of of a little [TS]

  stuff and you're done with the low levels while there's more I was done [TS]

  with part of it [TS]

  Instapaper beta yeah I knew they were moving everything to AWS and now looking [TS]

  at what they've done they've been doing a heck of alot more than that and I'm [TS]

  really happy to see this I mean I i this is way faster than I expected for this [TS]

  this level of of work and so they they unveiled today a beta thats I would say [TS]

  about it looks on the surface I haven't had that much fun to poke around with it [TS]

  but it looks like it's probably about two thirds done and for three quarters [TS]

  done even and it is really really good and it's it's just the web interface [TS]

  right now they say updates for the for the absurd coming and I believe them [TS]

  because I see this and they really delivered [TS]

  I mean this is really good and the web interface as soon as I read my little [TS]

  post about the web interface was always my biggest embarrassment about [TS]

  Instapaper because I knew it was terrible it looked terrible it worked [TS]

  pretty poorly but not only am i terrible web designer and in most cases but I [TS]

  also was not motivated to ever improve it because the short version is all the [TS]

  money was an iOS and I always used IOUs and so for something that made very [TS]

  little money directly with just the web interface and and web interface I hardly [TS]

  ever saw I just was not motivated to really ever improve it and that's you [TS]

  know one of the problems when you have a one-person company one of the problems [TS]

  is like if that one person isn't that interested in working on something in [TS]

  general doesn't get done and so now it's multiple people doing what's right for [TS]

  the product and what's great for everybody instead of just what they want [TS]

  to work on and it's really looking good thing I think it looks good I will say I [TS]

  can only imagine how much of a better word than a relief or perhaps a [TS]

  vindication debt this is the first major change that I'm aware of to Instapaper [TS]

  since you've sold it [TS]

  and how good was that must that make you feel that you now have a data point that [TS]

  says they're not going to ruin it and not to say that I expected better works [TS]

  too but now you have empirical evidence that says they're not gonna ruin in fact [TS]

  it's already getting better and that's gonna make you feel really bad pun but [TS]

  like a million bucks you know it must make you feel really good that that this [TS]

  is already trending up a totally because you know before it when I was in the [TS]

  process I thought I talked with us in the show's I'm not going into too much [TS]

  depth here but I I thought the worst that can happen really is that they [TS]

  neglected but I'm neglecting it and I've been neglecting it for like a year or [TS]

  two so the worst that can happen is that they just keep neglecting it so it's not [TS]

  that bad was obviously I've been doing it for a while it's been ok and now the [TS]

  analysis concrete evidence that they're not just letting it so like that [TS]

  wouldn't it was the worst case scenario now you're right it has you know [TS]

  everywhere to go now it's going to go up that doesn't make sense [TS]

  apply the appropriate metaphor John would you like to absolutely destroy it [TS]

  now that we've both been talking positively about it I didn't mind the [TS]

  old web interface that much was it wasn't anything nice to look at like it [TS]

  was just there and didn't really have much pizzazz or style but it did what it [TS]

  was supposed to do a time and I use the web interface a surprising amount [TS]

  because it's a lot of stuff that I would Instapaper [TS]

  things that either I didn't want to watch on a phone or couldn't watch on [TS]

  iPad involved flash or it was like I 1080p trailer for a movie and I want to [TS]

  see it on my big screen and so I did spend a lot of time with the web [TS]

  interface consists only thing that really know about the web interface [TS]

  including problems like to lay with the hat on happily with a hat on top of it [TS]

  or something [TS]

  you know wtf a thing that's barely escaped but remember whose fault it is I [TS]

  think I complain about Marco couple times but other than that was in the [TS]

  title role i remember i problemi title but the web interface is nice it's kind [TS]

  of it's a little bit like if you you can kind of see you know I don't know which [TS]

  technology using those look like you know under these bootstrap for that and [TS]

  I think I've seen an icon set before and you know but all the animations and I [TS]

  solve it depends on the fact that the purpose of luck was kind of black and [TS]

  white [TS]

  you know they you know it it's easy for them to come with a new design but they [TS]

  didn't have to do all sorts of like a lot of vision graphics and custom images [TS]

  of wood at high resolution for you know things like it if there had been a paper [TS]

  style wouldn't you know it more difficult here they could go with a [TS]

  straightforward design with nice typography with black on white and it [TS]

  only fits with the brand so I get thumbs up to the website and give a thumbs down [TS]

  to all the instability that has gone on since he was told this thing and another [TS]

  is because of the AWS move or whatever but I had read later or tap that are [TS]

  held down on an ordinance different places that I do it and gotten you know [TS]

  it I really really really long pause or a timeout or a service is not available [TS]

  way more between the time you sold it now than the entire rest of this is [TS]

  because they're moving into a double your ass but that made me sound like I'm [TS]

  reading something and it's the papers down even if he's down for five minutes [TS]

  now I gotta remember five minutes from now to come back and you know it the [TS]

  same link so I hope they get through with that instability and we can get [TS]

  back up to the old marco level stability which was very rarely down and only [TS]

  occasionally slow yeah I don't I don't know why I asked him about that I've [TS]

  only had a problem once in this time and maybe it's just like when we're hitting [TS]

  them I don't know why I would imagine one of the differences among us that you [TS]

  fully wake up a lot earlier than I do and so that they might put you in like a [TS]

  different usage but by I've only had a couple of problems one problem over the [TS]

  whole course of it but as far as I know it's no problem there probably because [TS]

  they were moving at AWS and that's [TS]

  I mean I'm sorry I'm really surprised how quickly they were able to to to do [TS]

  that move and and how well to gone because like so much of what I'm running [TS]

  servers is about knowing like the intricate details of exactly how much I [TS]

  can get away with performance wise on in certain characteristics are uncertain [TS]

  service run in certain software and by shifting things to AWS you dramatically [TS]

  change the foundation of what everything is like something like that the [TS]

  assumptions you made about characteristics like my database servers [TS]

  were mostly SSDs as far as I know if you are still doesn't offer that do they [TS]

  wouldn't know why I don't know either but but certainly I know that it if they [TS]

  do offer its probably it probably isn't simple or or maybe complete but so I I [TS]

  would make assumptions like this service going to have always had this much RAM [TS]

  their servers going to always be 64 bit this server is going to always have [TS]

  really fast desks and doesn't always gonna have tons of CPU cores and so I [TS]

  i've I was I was making all these assumptions all that time and to shifted [TS]

  to a system that works completely differently is is a heck of a thing to [TS]

  do and I also had like I think about 11 servers when I sold it and has 11 pretty [TS]

  high-end servers the number of AWS instances required to replace them [TS]

  has to be more than that and so that I can imagine the scale of the work that [TS]

  is the reason they did it was cuz they host all their stuff on it they know it [TS]

  really really well and you know that that's a very good reason to do it but i [TS]

  dont really shows how good they are they were able to do that kind of move so [TS]

  with with so little downtime really for the four what that is I mean moving to [TS]

  not only a different host would like moving all agree that only that but [TS]

  moving into a different type of host that's that's a big job search still [TS]

  doesn't work in the beta 2 just gives a [TS]

  502 era something I looked up there but the search works in the old ones like [TS]

  search is down entirely I don't know if this is accurate or not somebody on [TS]

  Twitter said that their rewriting it in Python and I know that I know like [TS]

  somebody had mentioned the possibility of that to me once and I said you do [TS]

  whatever you wanna care but they might be doing that also why I haven't even [TS]

  asked them again cuz I don't really care honestly have really ask them but that [TS]

  might be part of this like me maybe maybe the beta is all a python engine [TS]

  and the old site historical PHP code I don't know certainly don't have any [TS]

  problem with that because I respect python is a language I don't know it [TS]

  very well but I've always said that if I was going to learn another web scripting [TS]

  language today would probably Python so good for them I don't really well it's [TS]

  like a small application that it's not crazy to think of rewriting it feels [TS]

  like how many screens and oh yeah and it's and it's hidden be unlike any PII [TS]

  web interface as long as you maintain the same sort of you know hed bien [TS]

  points in the same you know protocol between them and they're redoing the [TS]

  native apps anyway but the point is like it's it's more of a team who knows how [TS]

  to use these technologies well now like I know exactly how I do Instapaper an [TS]

  hour which aren't everything and how would you know when all the different [TS]

  services like for things you can do with it you read later gotta text parser you [TS]

  got this is that like there's enough pieces are you can study can hold it all [TS]

  in your head it's not like somebody said you know that this operating system in [TS]

  Java you know not that level of of undertakings I think it's a reasonable [TS]

  thing to do especially if that's what they have the expertise in Liberty [TS]

  stepped up to do that [TS]

  exactly and also the web code base the way the way I had it off the web code [TS]

  bases really really simple and if I had often kind of a messy stakes I was kind [TS]

  of halfway transition between two text parser there was like the old one and [TS]

  the new one both coexisting in various different places and it was kind of a [TS]

  mess so i i sorry to anyone over there if you're listening if you had to clean [TS]

  that up but but but yeah I mean the web could be really is not that complicated [TS]

  and so if they know they can write in whatever they want and it doesn't it's [TS]

  not that big of a deal the iOS App of course is where most of the code is but [TS]

  you can't rewrite that anything else except I guess Cameron it it's good [TS]

  times you know it's funny hearing you guys say that oh yeah you can rewrite it [TS]

  no problem because I keep flashing back to Swansea's article from years and [TS]

  years ago about rewriting something and how no matter how simple you think it [TS]

  will be it always ends up being a terrible disaster and I'm hugely [TS]

  paraphrasing of course but it did it keeps reminding me of that and the other [TS]

  thing I keep wondering are thinking to myself is I don't know if this was a [TS]

  worthwhile topic or not but at what point do you choose familiarity over [TS]

  something anything else so in other words they may be more familiar with AWS [TS]

  and Python but no matter how you slice it they bought it works bought something [TS]

  that was successful and functional and is is familiarity more important to [TS]

  their team which it appears it is or is keeping what works more important and I [TS]

  wrestle with this a lot when I write code and you can also extrapolate this [TS]

  to be is writing code in a clear way better than writing code in a clever and [TS]

  perhaps maybe not succinct is the best word but you know if you could take a [TS]

  hundred and fifty line function lets say and do some really clever stuff and get [TS]

  it down to 50 lines but it's a lot harder to understand is that really a [TS]

  net winner not and in to me as the older I get the more I think you know [TS]

  familiarity really is important and really is worth fighting for and I found [TS]

  that I'm using less clever tricks in my code then I would have in the past [TS]

  because I don't know if I'm gonna remember what it was I was thinking in a [TS]

  month let alone a co-worker who have any idea what I was doing in a week I know [TS]

  if you guys have anything interesting to add to that [TS]

  but you're buying when you're buying a company or product or whatever like if [TS]

  you have the intention to go forward with their products to make new versions [TS]

  of the project features and everything you have to make sure that you have the [TS]

  ability to do that so if you buy something in PHP in Objective C and you [TS]

  have nobody who knows PHP and pictures and nobody knows I was a kid I was [TS]

  probably not a great idea to purchase that be like you need to do want two [TS]

  things get people those expertise or change it to something that you people [TS]

  are dead expertise in like Marco said but the iOS app they're going to get [TS]

  people who are familiar but I was when they probably already happened like you [TS]

  can't change language basically maybe they can change it to shop online that [TS]

  but in general that decision is made for them we bought an iOS app we gotta make [TS]

  sure we have people who understand the OSAP eyes and they probably already do [TS]

  so we're good there and on the web side they bought something that was written [TS]

  in PHP but I guess that's small enough and simple enough it is not that big a [TS]

  deal they could get expertise and kids being go forward to enhance the [TS]

  application PHP but I bet they already have people who know how to do web stuff [TS]

  done really well and you know they have to do something so that the people so [TS]

  that they can add features an advanced application and it's probably more [TS]

  efficient for them to rewrite the whole thing in Python because I have like an [TS]

  army of people who know Python and they think they can be ready really quickly [TS]

  with a problem like like market as he's got his framework for web applications [TS]

  not like that he's got a box of tools in PHP someone comes time to do something [TS]

  on the web it's much faster I'm just take out a tool box with the tools it [TS]

  has worked on and put something together so they probably have to box will Python [TS]

  things now familiar with various frameworks now their own in-house things [TS]

  when I was like oh I know exactly how I do in September and it was this that and [TS]

  the other thing and it's gone after they can do it [TS]

  the journal article was kind of one of those things where he won despite all [TS]

  the reasons why you might not wanna write something and he did pretty well [TS]

  todd has as time goes on and and memories fade or whatever it becomes [TS]

  like oh that's the article but he said you should never ever ever [TS]

  which of course any sort of absolute position like you should always are I [TS]

  turn every right it's not going to be able to argue with it and that's going [TS]

  to be the strong man if they're going to disagree with I think he did a good job [TS]

  of highlighting why like the value in old code but every situation is [TS]

  different and you have to decide given your situation the parameters and [TS]

  requirements that are put upon you and what you actually want to do going [TS]

  forward but you know what you're going to end so I think he is an example of [TS]

  netscape being rewritten to become Muslim everything and no one thing [TS]

  netscape is a simple application like many web browsers those are complicated [TS]

  right there have been no prob like they knew there was complicated but you know [TS]

  what [TS]

  twenty-twenty hindsight you can say look that code base that all netscape [TS]

  codebase was not going anywhere if it was basically going to be a dead end it [TS]

  would not exist today no matter how much work they put into it and even though [TS]

  there was tremendous value in like look at all the stuff we get bugged and look [TS]

  at you know all those little tricky things we did to make sure that it [TS]

  worked with weird you know mail services there was an alkaline built into it and [TS]

  how it works at NTP and all these nuances of talking to news servers and [TS]

  dealing with the web as it gets in 1993 that had value but the value by now is [TS]

  either gone or pointless because you know the web browsing engine world's [TS]

  gone so far at the Henry written it they would be completely irrelevant now as it [TS]

  stands there probably aren't you for another be right or something because [TS]

  their engine you know get everything is kind of like looking like the old [TS]

  grandfather next to WebKit and blank and all these fancy new things so you know [TS]

  people saying now Joe you read that article but look at they hadn't driven [TS]

  everything they'd be completely irrelevant and almost around and now [TS]

  even though he did rewriting so you know that this time the time comes when you [TS]

  need to cut your losses and move on but i i think they value in that article is [TS]

  explaining why there is yr old code has good qualities that you might not see [TS]

  when all you could see how disgusting is definitely like a very common programmer [TS]

  immaturity that you see where you'd like a programmer is assigned to take over a [TS]

  project where they were hired in like a new a new lead on it or [TS]

  they're looking at someone else's code who you know was previously they're [TS]

  almost always young performers want to rewrite it their way and that's [TS]

  generally a pretty immature and and inefficient position to take you know [TS]

  it's it's easier for you to to to start poking around 20 this whole thing is a [TS]

  mess this is not going to work it's terrible this previous previous prisoner [TS]

  this was an idiot and we gotta rewrite everything scratch and you know it in [TS]

  the real world like the article is pretty good advice most of the time [TS]

  obviously there's exceptions to everything the example use of netscape [TS]

  was of course a very extreme example netscape is a and was a tremendous [TS]

  codebase [TS]

  absolutely tremendous doing so many things and so obviously running that was [TS]

  it was a pretty big ordeal rewriting a pretty simple web service that doesn't [TS]

  do a whole lot on the web service and is not that hard you know I mean I wrote I [TS]

  remember the first version in like one night and you know built on a from their [TS]

  part time but it was never the website was never really have the time so be [TS]

  writing that is very very different from rewriting netscape so two quick [TS]

  questions for you in a very qualitative and and off the cuff way would you say [TS]

  that it it seems clear that the Instapaper website you would say is not [TS]

  very complex and and I'm thinking mostly about text parser that strikes me as I [TS]

  would be pretty complex but it seems to me like you're waving at office not that [TS]

  bad is that fair to say that experts are really isn't that bad it's really not [TS]

  that complex you you would be surprised how easy it is to do a pretty good job [TS]

  person about to text and then with that in mind how much code smell would you [TS]

  say the codebase had like you said you were half 8th between major rewrite and [TS]

  that obviously induces a little bit of stench if you will but would you say [TS]

  that generally speaking was in pretty good shape aside from that [TS]

  the text parser was in bad shape but everything else was pretty solid as far [TS]

  as I remember honestly I spent a little time working on the website I barely [TS]

  remember the code but it was we can tell you one thing and one other direction [TS]

  and I'll take this conversation briefly is there is great article I posted a [TS]

  link in the chat room [TS]

  few lines ago by James Hague and I'll put a link in the show nodes and it's [TS]

  called organizational skills [TS]

  beat algorithmic wizardry and he was first talking about like you know all [TS]

  the crap about about brain teaser tech interviews which are terrible and he had [TS]

  his has one line that I love when it comes to writing code number one most [TS]

  important skill is how to keep a tangle of features from collapsing under the [TS]

  weight of its own complexity and she said you want to say to a great extent [TS]

  the act of coding is one of organization refactoring simplifying figure out how [TS]

  to remove extraneous manipulations here and there and it's it's a fantastic bit [TS]

  of wisdom there because so many times what makes me want to rewrite parts of [TS]

  my own code or modules or even entire apps which is pretty rare but you know [TS]

  what makes me want to rewrite stuff like that is friction optimizations [TS]

  complexities that I have implemented forever ago and have since forgotten how [TS]

  they work and you know it's like you're competing with like yourself from the [TS]

  future and it's really really easy to you know you see something here that we [TS]

  could do the school thing if he's a little bit of complexity here this [TS]

  little weird hackear that it's not pretty but it'll work in a school thing [TS]

  within six months from now you get to that you see that and you see oh I don't [TS]

  think I messed up the whole thing you know [TS]

  cases question from before about doing clever things in code or whatever like I [TS]

  think most programmers go through that phase of where you don't understand [TS]

  everything that you do understand everything you start to invent your own [TS]

  clever things I try to get myself away from looking at the code at that level [TS]

  because what I found is that the most important [TS]

  I have to ask about the like the blocker the method or the whatever the module [TS]

  that whatever its class time Lohan or whatever is what is this code supposed [TS]

  to do that question should be like that phrase do some very clever flowery way [TS]

  and put into big giant poster shoved me like the old IBM Think poster because [TS]

  almost any time anyone is having a programming problem aside for me having [TS]

  to teach them how to debug works which is surprising i dont no not another get [TS]

  their jobs done is that question what like so you're in there you got this [TS]

  clever bit the dust some clever thing and it's got some groups and some lines [TS]

  and some variables if you know what the function at says doing like I know the [TS]

  purpose of this function either because documented or is named well or both or [TS]

  just know what it is because he wrote recently the job as long as it takes [TS]

  this and put it gives you this out but you know I know what his job is I know [TS]

  where it fits into the whole block diagram of my thing and that of course I [TS]

  know that I always know when I was looking at the couple lines along my car [TS]

  ever but as you work for a long time especially constantly thinking about [TS]

  this you will find yourself in the function and someone will ask you what [TS]

  is it like it just does that doesn't matter gets called and then I'm in here [TS]

  and a half of the state like what matters you know it doesn't matter like [TS]

  this just gets called when this happened then eventually you know I'm very deep [TS]

  in the cost I just think it's called in to like this job was supposed to be [TS]

  doing it what is the job of this function as I will usually it just takes [TS]

  this and put it there and processing turns in that flips out on but sometimes [TS]

  if if this thing is also on me like you can't explain to me what this function [TS]

  does and it's like what it does is affected by global state and it's got [TS]

  lots of conditionals and behave this way and it's deeply intertwined with other [TS]

  things and it's it's all mixed in with the GUI and it depends on the you know [TS]

  the state of the database or orientation and devices and you know you like this [TS]

  function as well that you lost sight of this new beginning maybe was a simple [TS]

  function but to make your application work you continue to screw up to the [TS]

  point where now asking what is this function do you have to tell me a story [TS]

  that's three hours long [TS]

  so it's not the clever lines are you doing some sort of been asking and some [TS]

  sort of clever thing we're here you know sharing some variable and and trying to [TS]

  reuse memory from previous incarnation or do some caching that's not your [TS]

  problem [TS]

  your problem is you know that the function does if you know what I did but [TS]

  then by all means do the most crazy clever awesome way that you could do it [TS]

  and that have an awesome unit tests to make sure that crazy clever way works [TS]

  exactly the same as the boring you know that you're fine then go nuts but that [TS]

  data fine is the problem that's the function of this class about how do [TS]

  these things that interact with the relationship between these things in the [TS]

  program is this post you know how many of them should there ever be one of the [TS]

  assertions you can make about them about what states they should be a statement [TS]

  like those are the questions that you have to keep in your mind and the [TS]

  broader you can get that picture nail down the simple it is I don't know if [TS]

  you have any experience maybe if I with a really simple application or something [TS]

  where you have or maybe an application to read like a hundred times more [TS]

  writing courses have this weird like I'm going to do like a canonical pet store [TS]

  example or something if you have a design that really is the correct the [TS]

  beginning Cody itself becomes mechanical almost boring is all you're doing is [TS]

  like I know exactly what I gotta do what you have to do is not complicated I'm [TS]

  gonna write it it's pretty straightforward maybe there's a couple [TS]

  of nuances in clever ways to do it but who cares and just it just falls out [TS]

  your premise falls out of you because if you have designed correct implementation [TS]

  is trivial you know once you know any language more less or any API that's [TS]

  really the case usually the design done to that level especially during some of [TS]

  the first times you keep having to go back and revise revise and if you don't [TS]

  constantly think about what is this thing supposed to do what is this class [TS]

  that was as function to what is not to do what does its job and the answer [TS]

  isn't simple enough to justify I know exactly do they have a problem like [TS]

  that's why I think Marquez text parser is a reasonable thing to fiddle with [TS]

  because we know what his job does it takes a web page and it gives you back [TS]

  taxes doesn't have all the crap like he can write a fancier explanation but [TS]

  that's what it does [TS]

  simple input-output operation what happens in there can be extremely [TS]

  complex cool and interesting or whatever but you know it in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things that's a pretty simple function of the very few side effects [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  and you're right you know what I'm talking about competing with herself in [TS]

  the future and understand what your road and and you know but under complexity I [TS]

  am talking about I'm not talking about the you know how you know how you shift [TS]

  the bits over here within this function that you're right I don't care I am [TS]

  talking about the ball at the crazy you never these at the global stately [TS]

  things that are weirdly intertwined that have we are dependencies that is like [TS]

  you know it works in your head while you're writing it because you know all [TS]

  that stuff it sits in your memory but then as you know in a month [TS]

  you're gonna forget how that works and somebody's gonna be breaking in a weird [TS]

  way or you gonna have to add something to it and that's gonna break in a weird [TS]

  way and you have no idea this whole system works you just want to get to [TS]

  work like when you know when you get in that state you like I just want to spit [TS]

  the bun and see that they appear like I just wanted to work right and so you [TS]

  putting code you just putting the code wherever you need to put code to make it [TS]

  work you do you land someplace some very important said you put the code right [TS]

  there to say something very right here without thinking you know like is this [TS]

  the place where I should be doing this because everything is everyone gets it [TS]

  reaches a threshold like so close to this thing working if I could just like [TS]

  I just put a conditional their thing would work is that the right place to [TS]

  put the conditional why you going to do that check as you know like to ask [TS]

  questions i just want to see they want to click the button they want to see the [TS]

  thing up here and everybody does that to some degree and it just you multiply [TS]

  that by the number of programs and the complexity of the problem and if you're [TS]

  not constantly revising your view of the world and constraining your code is just [TS]

  the right place this code may be there is no right place this code which [TS]

  reflects a problem that are designed that we didn't foresee some time to go [TS]

  back to the giant block level and say okay maybe we need to redo these blocks [TS]

  and nobody wants to think about that you like but I'm so close off if I just [TS]

  because I'm so close that will be fine and up to comment on the top of Anubis [TS]

  finally that's why when other people when you look at you know well as other [TS]

  people's code when you look at someone else's code you like to be written it's [TS]

  because that person maybe didn't do such a good job of keeping the handle on [TS]

  things that you look at these functions just ten different things and the name [TS]

  has very very tenuous connection with the content of the code and it makes me [TS]

  want everyone to know you know it's funny the way you're describing things I [TS]

  unsurprisingly agree with everything you said it's almost like the five whys [TS]

  developing code you know why did I write this method ok why is this method part [TS]

  of this class why is this class part of this namespace a part of this module and [TS]

  so on and so forth in and you certainly make a very interesting point I think [TS]

  that intrinsically that's what developers tend to do but doing it more [TS]

  explicitly and and deliberately certainly can't do anything but help ya [TS]

  there was an army had never ever going to have a critical was like what makes a [TS]

  good programmer in this article that Marco through the Lincoln for us is very [TS]

  similar to it and my contention is more touchy-feely but one of the things that [TS]

  there's lots of times what kinds of good programs right and there are you know [TS]

  the classic good program like John Carmack whatever just like you know a [TS]

  genius really good at math can do very clever algorithmic things like that so [TS]

  we think it was like oh he's an amazing program right and there's definitely a [TS]

  place up in another kind of very good programmer is always a touchy-feely [TS]

  things but like people motivated by [TS]

  to you know to avoid things that make them uncomfortable right and disorder [TS]

  makes you uncomfortable that will be a strong motivator for you to you know to [TS]

  make things harder to people people who are discomforted by you know things that [TS]

  are messages are they usually like people say obsessive-compulsive [TS]

  personality the wrong word for it so I don't know what the right word for it is [TS]

  but you know they have websites where they show like a line of pencils or one [TS]

  pencils poking out the type of people who are annoyed by that pencil talking [TS]

  and I want to push it back down everyone's annoyed by by a little bit [TS]

  but some people are made much more uncomfortable that pencil broke out than [TS]

  other people are the more you have that feeling the son of you know that like it [TS]

  makes you physically uncomfortable for your books on your bookshelves not to be [TS]

  aligned or like things to be out of place and you know they can ever [TS]

  wondered what some people have to do a higher degree that is another kind of [TS]

  good programmers you find someone who is really really uncomfortable when things [TS]

  are unintended properly you would think like I what makes me good programmers my [TS]

  technical skill and I [TS]

  I'm good with our growth and I know but user interface but really entire class [TS]

  of prayer is what makes a good program is their complete inability to tolerate [TS]

  things being out of order and that extending all like this class cannot be [TS]

  doing this [TS]

  that's not the responsibility of this method to do this at all that states [TS]

  should not be touched by here there should be an abstraction between this [TS]

  nation should reach into that to go that you know every single one of those [TS]

  things once you get some knowledge of programming becomes like that pencil [TS]

  poking up you just cannot tolerate it all way down to the simple things like [TS]

  inconsistent indenting like I know program we have no problem with [TS]

  inconsistent and ending spaces tabs random curly brace styles like a giant [TS]

  mess that's not common I think programmers are more towards the can't [TS]

  stand it when their books are lined up on the shelf but that skill like that [TS]

  it's not a skill like that sort of personality disorder I don't know mental [TS]

  impairment that you know being physically uncomfortable to a degree [TS]

  that's outside their room of the norm by disorder makes you a better programmer [TS]

  probably ticular kind and since you know it's usually don't think people want to [TS]

  think they're super hour's drive from like they're amazing strength or super [TS]

  speeder intellect don't want to think that the thing that makes a good [TS]

  programmers that thing that handicaps them and the rest of their regular life [TS]

  like not enough to a debilitating degree but that's obsessive compulsive is an [TS]

  entirely different thing I don't know what the thing is I'm talking about over [TS]

  the realtor missed but some of them like that it's like turning you know the [TS]

  silver lining in things that are mentally wrong with you and it's [TS]

  definitely the case with me I don't like disorder I think it makes me better [TS]

  programmer and I think every program has to to some degree I definitely alright [TS]

  well if we continue let's take a break think our first sponsor this week it's a [TS]

  new sponsor this week it is Warby Parker Parker was founded with a rebellious [TS]

  spirit and a lofty objective to create boot equality closely crafted I we're at [TS]

  a revolutionary price point so this is what it is they saw glasses online and [TS]

  they do it really really well they believe glasses should not cost as much [TS]

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  they include a hard case and cleaning cloth to really really great product and [TS]

  they make home buying easy and risk-free they have a single the home Tryon [TS]

  program and what they do is you go to their site and you pick out up to five [TS]

  frames to try out and they have all these sorts of tools on their site you [TS]

  can do things like like having an image of your face that it then like raps on [TS]

  it like naps the glasses on to your face you can preview it there or so [TS]

  home trying for free online easy risk-free the home try on your pic five [TS]

  frames you want random person and they mail them to you you pick whatever you [TS]

  want if you want one of those you can go buy it you send him right back and then [TS]

  and then this entity with operations really really great now when they put [TS]

  the spot they offer the three of us three glasses if we want to try it out [TS]

  so they they they had a tryout the home try on and and and you know so we can [TS]

  see how good of a part that's what we tell you about it and I don't wear [TS]

  glasses but my wife does and she's famous on the internet so I'm actually [TS]

  here so it's so is hops but house will be quiet I think she's going to actually [TS]

  be joining this and doing the rest of the sponsor read for me she had a whole [TS]

  experience was really quite good so here's to if their way how are you could [TS]

  hire 100 that we're all worries haha yeah well I am and it sounds like you [TS]

  are John [TS]

  home trends and I ordered my pair but they haven't come yet ok so you're a [TS]

  little behind me know if you're coming they have I got them yesterday are they [TS]

  or are they not spectacular I am so impressed like when I got that box is a [TS]

  high-quality I'm just ridiculously impressed cuz I just recently bought new [TS]

  glasses maybe like a month ago for the first time in 15 years which is crazy [TS]

  and they were way expensive and when I finally got them ended up not getting [TS]

  so having this experience was perfect for fixing the bad purchase I had before [TS]

  which ended up costing so much more money than the word be partners did so I [TS]

  got a pair sunglasses actually so I have terrible eyes but my eyes are so bad [TS]

  that actually have to wear contacts and I'm not gonna get into the specifics [TS]

  matter but I got a pair of non-prescription sunglasses and I did [TS]

  the home Tryon thing and one of the great things about the home tryin thing [TS]

  is you can you can say is I did well you know what self let's reach a little and [TS]

  go out of our comfort zone and you know said Parker send a pair of glasses that [TS]

  maybe you wouldn't have picked out if you just saw them on the rack maybe [TS]

  something will trendier than you're used to [TS]

  and then so I got these five cent of the five pairs of sunglasses and I try to [TS]

  Milan and i ended up actually choosing one that was a little bit out of my [TS]

  comfort zone and I and i got the final set about a week ago and I love them [TS]

  they're really well bill really really nice and I have absolutely no complaints [TS]

  and granted I'm kind of compelled to say that but it really is genuinely true now [TS]

  John you said you have or have not gone years I got my trying months that's a [TS]

  great thing about the tram boxes like they you pick five glasses and i dont [TS]

  think like there's an option to pick fewer anything and five is a good number [TS]

  because like cases that it does make you pick like because if you pick your top [TS]

  three and after that you like I'm pretty sure I'm gonna like one of these three [TS]

  that I picked right but I got two more slots to fill you pick you know the same [TS]

  thing and getting an impressive music on the website like you don't want to try [TS]

  and they have to think we can like upload a picture of yourself and try it [TS]

  on and I'm like ok he's gonna be something upload a picture like pace to [TS]

  copy of the classes over my face and look stupid in my home girl to telephone [TS]

  like them but they do the study guide on how work they must be like doing face [TS]

  detection figure out where your pupils are on the scaling and and they have [TS]

  like a floating 3d version of the crisis frames so you can like rotated and and [TS]

  you know angle it so that it matches how your faces in the photo and it hides [TS]

  like that you know the little things that go over your ears they don't [TS]

  overlap your face and everything it's really impressive I think I almost [TS]

  couldn't pick them out to us from the website using the little 3d [TS]

  I would really like to know how that works I think it might be flash I don't [TS]

  know what technology but I was really impressed by that but the fact they're [TS]

  going to send you the glasses you don't even have to bother with that if you [TS]

  don't want to get the glasses and just take off the boxers said in front of the [TS]

  mirror someone put another one of the great things like I am ordering [TS]

  sunglasses as well they gave me sunglass lenses and my son last so wasn't like [TS]

  empty you know I can sometimes be a glass places like just an empty frame [TS]

  with nothing in them or their clear whatever these had actual sunglass you [TS]

  know like no prescription right because this is just a trial pair but you could [TS]

  see how they would look on you as sunglasses which was nice I so I did [TS]

  pick the you know three pair that I thought I would like to exotic rare and [TS]

  i ended up picking one of the ones I thought I would like some boring person [TS]

  but this month it was fun to try them out and I didn't end up with the one [TS]

  that I thought would be likely number 12 need to do this five things I know in [TS]

  like this when I am here and pick you like my third one I did a second round [TS]

  of phone trials because I was so excited about the sunglasses I'm like ok I'm [TS]

  gonna get a pair of regular classes as well and I only picked 3490 try on and [TS]

  so worried Parker took it upon themselves to see the style that I liked [TS]

  in that I picked and they filled in the rest of the day the other two in the box [TS]

  and when I got them I ended up picking one of the pairs that the Warby Parker [TS]

  people picked for me which is pretty impressive I thought that was a really [TS]

  cool feature so you can pick fewer than five but they'll fill in for you and [TS]

  they ended up making a better choice than even I added a note of 55 shots [TS]

  just the second round so I had already done five and there is the second round [TS]

  you picked one of the ones that picture so you picked like all together seven [TS]

  pairs of glasses and you didn't pick any order a pair of glasses and you didn't [TS]

  take any of the eight your own age you picked him up of the two things correct [TS]

  yet wow that's pretty impressive yeah yeah they did a fantastic job market is [TS]

  hovering behind me so I think you wanted to get back on the air but nobody likes [TS]

  a kid all thanks to appreciate appreciate the camera thank you guys [TS]

  together on Mike we do you should get her on my I only have one if only you [TS]

  had sold something recently so you can afford another spot so they have to say [TS]

  so yes or Parker they price their lessons affordably because they believe [TS]

  glasses are like a fashion accessory and if each pair doesn't cost you like [TS]

  hundreds and hundreds of dollars than you can afford to have more than one if [TS]

  you want to and they know that not everybody can afford glasses there's a [TS]

  whole lot of people in need who need glasses and who can afford them they [TS]

  have a great program called by a pair give a pair for every pair of the [TS]

  glasses sold they also donate a pair to people in need and that's really cool [TS]

  and it's just so ultimately their event has classes company to make high-quality [TS]

  products tips also mention she's also very impressed by the quality relative [TS]

  to her like expensive professional ones from before they're actually better in [TS]

  most ways than the one she got from her eye doctor so very very happy with this [TS]

  company and so too will be Parker dot com that's WA RBY Parker dot com and [TS]

  when you order the home try ons do it you know have fun when you order the [TS]

  final pair that you want to buy use our coupon code ATP and that'll get you free [TS]

  3 day shipping so again use coupon code ATP when you make your final purchase [TS]

  and only three 3 day shipping so thanks a lot darker grey glass company thanks [TS]

  to sponsor the show took forever but they really are there good that's right [TS]

  I figured I figure was fun and I and the idea by them haven't if coming and they [TS]

  have sunglasses and stuff but I already have like three pairs of sunglasses like [TS]

  another one and she actually really needed glasses cause her existing ones [TS]

  she just gotten were not fitting her at all and [TS]

  and so I ran by then the idea of having her to be every night yes sure their [TS]

  phone companies so anyway thanks to them I want to talk a little bit about an [TS]

  offshoot of the topic that we had right before the break about about code [TS]

  long-term health and when things get too complex and they kinda buckle under [TS]

  their own weight so the Instapaper web app as we discuss was very simple and [TS]

  didn't have too many of those problems the iOS App Store afraid might because [TS]

  it on so many came in this paper iOS apps in the App Store on day one so the [TS]

  first bit of code written for IOUs to and most of the current code was written [TS]

  for iOS three and I've matured over time you know to add features here and there [TS]

  but the core code base pretty as a city there's still some view structure in [TS]

  there for iOS three and there were some modern features I never took advantage [TS]

  of things like child view controllers do control containment all that stuff it [TS]

  was interesting I think five I never even took advantage of that and back [TS]

  then and the list of things that the supplies to get smaller every every last [TS]

  release but over time there's always been you I characteristics or effects [TS]

  that I've wanted to achieve and the API for whatever reason didn't expose them [TS]

  so you basically have to fake it or hackett somehow and overtime in stable [TS]

  built up quite a lot of those for various things and a lot of it was to [TS]

  its great advantage things like like the iBookstore pagination there was an API [TS]

  for that but the structure of it made it almost impossible to use any reasonable [TS]

  way with a WebView and of course actually an iOS 7 I think they've [TS]

  instead of one of the slides the nation to web use a flag you can see [TS]

  so I one line of that will replace you know thousands of activists but I'm [TS]

  trying you know over time that really made into papers iOS codebase pretty big [TS]

  and there there are a few hacks in there that are pretty uncomfortable and so now [TS]

  working on this new big app and it actually gonna be a Business Insider [TS]

  reader that's that's the new app plus I'm working on this new app and trying [TS]

  to do in the UI is avoid those kind of hacks as much as I can like it rather [TS]

  than like if I want a certain really cool feature rather than saying oh yeah [TS]

  let me let me let me in [TS]

  invest two weeks into making this tremendous pile of hacks that i'm gonna [TS]

  hate in six months we have to go back and change something and it have all [TS]

  these weird side effects because I just have to do that one feature rather than [TS]

  doing that I'm trying and this is actually pretty hard I love doing those [TS]

  who create the house at the time but I'm really trying to to lean more towards [TS]

  just doing the eighty percent solution doing like whatever the UI affords me [TS]

  the ability to do easily whatever the API allows an easy way just do that and [TS]

  don't get into this giant pile of hacks style of like gotta keep this one crazy [TS]

  future by doing this big pile acts but I don't know what do you think I mean I [TS]

  don't have a realistic and part of the reason I did it with its neighbor was at [TS]

  a it was cool being oppressed and see it was a huge competitive advantage so I [TS]

  don't you know I don't know maybe doing that sometimes a good idea I think you [TS]

  can avoid it makes you stand out like you know it maybe there's a brief [TS]

  honeymoon period Iowa summer merely just doing the standard your iOS 7 is it is [TS]

  enough for like the day when launched but all those things and Instapaper did [TS]

  that made it different you know its branding it's raining here application [TS]

  and even if it's just like but I wish they could slide out instead of just [TS]

  appearing and there's no way to do that well if I make it a totally different [TS]

  element ever do something with custom car animation layers said refusing [TS]

  you know navigation controller that you know does whatever it wants to do it [TS]

  will just add that little little bit of difference there and those little things [TS]

  add up and make your application stand out as oh this is not just a bunch of [TS]

  standard controls in wages interacting in exactly the same way as they would in [TS]

  some demo application it's got a little extra and yet to find a balance between [TS]

  a little extra letterpress right so this [TS]

  and clearly you know you're not even be approaching Alberta right but you're [TS]

  saying well maybe maybe in september likes I saw that I was like when I lived [TS]

  over the course of three entire major releases of Iowa City get a little [TS]

  creepy so maybe just try to start out with this few of those you can maybe [TS]

  just maybe you just want like the just one defector elementary transition that [TS]

  I can't get that are going to do in a fancy way in it and it's something that [TS]

  people will see a lot of nowhere to stay with my application but I'm going to [TS]

  hold off on being like but I really wish that I could get that thing to do that [TS]

  but oh well the thing that it does now is fine I really wish I was a little bit [TS]

  different but I'll just use the regular clashing class and class doesn't display [TS]

  you know doesn't reshuffle their show the title the way I wander wouldn't it [TS]

  be great if the title could fly you know all that stuff is gonna know you about [TS]

  using Apple state-controlled especially the ones that are immature but you just [TS]

  sort of grin and bear it and pick your battles and maybe pick one or two places [TS]

  in the first version read defenses stuff and then just wait like this like you [TS]

  said if you wait long enough you know maybe it'll get built in and the people [TS]

  who waited until page-turning was built in [TS]

  they had a baby had a competitive disadvantage but there are other [TS]

  instances where people didn't have a competitive disadvantage that has waited [TS]

  for you know some sort of you know navigation controller future to appear [TS]

  and you had acted in version too and it appeared in version 3 that was maybe not [TS]

  a worthwhile hack for something most people didn't even know it was a you [TS]

  know fancy behavior when it's also about where you're making these fancy hats so [TS]

  for example you know the iPad version Instapaper had what basically was a [TS]

  collection of you before there was a collection of you is not right it was [TS]

  called I P Fig gridview yeah exactly and so what I'm driving any as you could do [TS]

  something fairly wild with you I collection view that isn't [TS]

  standard but is supported and that's a very fine line but very important ones [TS]

  so here it is you're taking you a collection of you which is a completely [TS]

  standard component but you're doing a wild I don't know what they call it the [TS]

  layout or whatever you're doing a really wild custom layout in order to do [TS]

  something interesting and if you look at WBC 2012 when they were talking about [TS]

  the collection of you they did some unbelievably clever and trick things [TS]

  with the collection of you with not a lot of code just by doing a custom [TS]

  layout and so maybe the right answer is you choose easy and intelligent places [TS]

  to make these custom wild things happen that are kind of supported or maybe just [TS]

  do some really wild stuff with coordination that isn't that isn't off [TS]

  the reservation if you will but it's different and by doing in places that [TS]

  are designed to have this flexibility than maybe that will prevent some of [TS]

  that creaking us in the future yes anything that supports views like do [TS]

  something fancy in your view but that and that is probably more maintainable [TS]

  and then saying the thing that controls these news that's where I'm going to do [TS]

  the fancy stuff you know yet exactly i mean that like a lot a lot of what a lot [TS]

  of those hacks I did over the years were things I transitions and and to some [TS]

  extent the fake review was actually the figured you was not that bad because it [TS]

  was so containers you are saying john looked like it was it was a table view [TS]

  infected actual the table you subclass which is known brief greeting us and and [TS]

  adjust it worked like a tale of you that the data source delegate almost the [TS]

  exact same way to it was actually pretty black boxy so it wasn't really a problem [TS]

  and didn't have to write your review you didn't have to say all this is a [TS]

  completely flexible collection you use it in any orientation they number rose [TS]

  and lights and anything you know you have used anything I want to populate [TS]

  them and tell you didn't have to make the Instapaper which constrains what you [TS]

  have to do so you can make your gridview work you're not on the hook to make a [TS]

  general-purpose collection view that works in a million different context [TS]

  right exactly so you know that really wasn't wasn't that one of the hacks the [TS]

  bigger hacks came from things like transitions and [TS]

  and especially more on the iPhone with the iPad I was doing a lot more of my [TS]

  own custom UI a very common practice though for programmers making iOS stuff [TS]

  is generally stay with the new I get four for a lot of uses but then you hit [TS]

  some kind of weird limitations edge case probably its annual bar button item had [TS]

  some kind of edge case and you like well if i if I want this to do this thing [TS]

  then I have to like not even use UI toolbar or a dream that my own button or [TS]

  something you know something on a pretty large scale like that and if you say yes [TS]

  even a couple of those things it starts getting kind of insane and then if you [TS]

  start if you start saying things that involve multiple views and multiple [TS]

  controllers like navigational structures or transitions then you can start [TS]

  getting pretty hairy pretty quickly and everything that comes out this becomes [TS]

  easier to do in a in a supported or at least a cleaner way you know I S seven [TS]

  supports all sorts of cool new stuff to make this to make a lot of these hacks [TS]

  either unnecessary or substantially better and more maintainable and and but [TS]

  there's always going to be that bleeding edge of things that are unsupported and [TS]

  like you know there's gonna be like I I think it's it's a lot like you know when [TS]

  making this about like Instapaper itself was it was a collection of very very [TS]

  simple things with like two hard things the text parser and the Kindle format [TS]

  thing those right to hard things and thereafter with a bunch of easy things [TS]

  if the number of crazy things you're doing it's pretty small and everything [TS]

  else you doing is pretty easy then that is competitive advantage and you can get [TS]

  away with it it's it's a matter of of balancing those like my new app I have [TS]

  this one like really crazy low-level feature that i really wanna do but it's [TS]

  one of those things where it hits an edge of you like it and I'm going to [TS]

  have to do a lot of work to make that work right and I'm weighing now i cant [TS]

  even should only be shipped version without it because it's going to be so [TS]

  much work for one feature [TS]

  but it's a pretty nice feature you know it's it's always this battle in my head [TS]

  if they do I do this why not do this I don't know it's a tough thing and [TS]

  especially early on you know you don't know you don't know when to say no yet a [TS]

  lot of the times and in what I hear you saying earlier to turn this into the [TS]

  jaws Polski rerun show is kinda broken windows thing where if you if you allow [TS]

  yourself early on to go a little bit wild and then the next time you have to [TS]

  question while can I get a little bit wild with this when he did it before [TS]

  wanna do it again and it's a slippery slope and and so especially if you're [TS]

  early on and development as I know you are it's it's it's better in my opinion [TS]

  in most cases to try to stay as stock as possible and as simple as possible so [TS]

  that you don't allow yourself to go absolutely crazy from the foundation up [TS]

  exactly do we want to talk about something else that's awesome or do you [TS]

  wanna wait a minute we do let's do it now has a gap on our second awesome [TS]

  thing is yet another new sponsor I believe their new are sure they're not [TS]

  into my site for me as a person but their igloo also known as a software so [TS]

  a glue is an internet you'll actually like now I don't know if anybody who's [TS]

  anybody who's ever seen you before I don't know of anybody who has any kind [TS]

  of positive association with the word internet generally these are horrible [TS]

  internal corporate sites that you're forced to use your job that are badly [TS]

  made badly maintained daily work and required use IE six was increasing its [TS]

  like that nobody likes their internet unless they're really customers because [TS]

  a clue actually makes an internet that you will like your workers were like so [TS]

  you can share content quickly with all sorts of built-in apps they have blogs [TS]

  their calendars file-sharing forums they've twitter-like microblogs wikis [TS]

  and everything can be social you can comment on any type of content you can [TS]

  add reply at mentioned your co-workers Twitter style you can follow content for [TS]

  updates you can tag things you can group things you can add on rooms you can have [TS]

  many igloos for certain teams from division [TS]

  is to work in the whole thing all these features are very very easy its drag and [TS]

  drop it as responsive design it uses beautiful type kit funds these people [TS]

  really know their stuff and it's like you know they're applying all the [TS]

  awesome modern progressive design and features that we get on the consumer web [TS]

  to the internet world and that's extremely rare so they're doing it all [TS]

  for you plus a clue has enterprise good excuse me enterprise-grade security you [TS]

  can start using it right away it's free to use up to 10 people that's pretty [TS]

  cool if you have a staff of 10 people are less it's totally free so go start [TS]

  using it today and when it grows its only $12 per person per month for a [TS]

  business is extremely affordable way cheaper than developing your own and [TS]

  it's just so much better its world better than most people internets to go [TS]

  to a clue software dot com slash ATP that's a truce offer dot com slash ATP [TS]

  start billion igloo today free to use up to 10 people go for it thanks luckily [TS]

  software they're fantastic sponsors is sponsored lots of great podcasts [TS]

  actually listen to the shows which is pretty great and so they they've done [TS]

  like inside jokes on some of the shows in fact meet me on this page and [TS]

  services welcome ATP listeners up top and they you know they their fans their [TS]

  fans of our stuff they appreciate what we do so give him a shot [TS]

  igloo software dot com slash ATP thanks to a clue for making awesome internet [TS]

  and sponsoring our show they should have a program where they're like they send [TS]

  people to your office to convince the powers that be they should get rid of [TS]

  that like is often than I wish I could get rid of my internet and replace it [TS]

  with a good but i cant cuz I'm in the 2000 person company and employee right [TS]

  like seven teams look you need to change because I wish I wish we didn't have to [TS]

  use the things we're using all they also have a sammich video I mean come on how [TS]

  cool is that how can you go wrong with the same yes I check him out there are [TS]

  so many go watch this video [TS]

  usually I mean it did say this is one of the problems I get it it's like it's [TS]

  like we have [TS]

  have her everything like everyone has seen terrible domain registrars will [TS]

  everyone has seen terrible internets without revealing too much only recently [TS]

  was able to do something without using Java in my web browser on my entry level [TS]

  job in the browser only reason they were there I'd non Java way to do it like I [TS]

  actually [TS]

  victories I I recently wished for Java in the browser to work again for some [TS]

  reason I machine doesn't work anymore I don't know finance audit from one of the [TS]

  security things recently or what but I my life ish dot com fasho downloader [TS]

  like every every time there's a fish store I i buy it and then every time [TS]

  every night of the concert I can go download the show from that night and [TS]

  they have a Java multi file downloader thing and that that hasn't worked have [TS]

  had to like hold option and click on the links one by one and it's really hard [TS]

  life like an animal [TS]

  yeah exactly like a program for you I thought it actually writing like at [TS]

  least try to look fine day Safari extension I'm sure I'm sure somebody go [TS]

  wherever you copy and paste the source and run it through thing and a bunch of [TS]

  some kind of weird session stuff and are now does it say it's all indicated [TS]

  because it's just a great grab your cookie jar and I'm done it many times [TS]

  trying to grab WWC things grapple videos and every time I do it like you know I [TS]

  started to love does not bother you again just to paste into BBEdit [TS]

  repeatedly hold down and saying chords that involved like three or four [TS]

  modifiers at the same time that memorized to grind the files up into [TS]

  bits and then throwing a double score data token and start right pro coat on [TS]

  top of that and make a series of scripts the process yeah actually with it really [TS]

  should be as a bookmarklet because then you're running right in the context of [TS]

  the page to be really really to make them yeah you could write a script to [TS]

  talk about John I know you had an interesting topic he wanted to bring up [TS]

  yeah this was I let them down for bowling today because we got it from [TS]

  and the title of the story is regular people have no idea how to manage photos [TS]

  on their phone just not really so much but i wanna talk about don't talk about [TS]

  that the points that were down to the end of this thing and wrote it [TS]

  chambers chambers and he's talking about how the promise photo management under [TS]

  French people just buy phones and they take pictures with them and like I mean [TS]

  I think about this is all my relatives and friends who have phones like what do [TS]

  they think about their own a phone right and the taking pictures but then [TS]

  sometimes the pictures that they care about kids are at their soccer game or [TS]

  the Sun scoring his first goal is like something like they're important [TS]

  memories right did they ever think about like what happens if you drop your phone [TS]

  you know your car window when you're driving or something like that happens [TS]

  if you spill coffee on it I think they don't think those photos are gone [TS]

  forever thing they just think like the photos are magically safer maybe they [TS]

  don't even know what people think about this but the bottom line is that Apple [TS]

  doesn't take care of you or your dated I think it should and I this was way back [TS]

  when I first started writing unlike the fat butts blog on our technical years [TS]

  and years ago one of the first things I wrote about was this problem that Apple [TS]

  has made these devices and encouraged everyone even back in additional days to [TS]

  put your most precious possession pressures non-living possessions on [TS]

  their hardware and then they don't care what the hell happened soon after that [TS]

  like that not that that's a bad like I think there should be more concerned [TS]

  about taking care of your stuff because seriously like your house burns down [TS]

  your family and your pets all get out alive [TS]

  the first thing that you care about of them like hoping you had some kind of [TS]

  insurance is probably like your family photos here movies because those things [TS]

  can be replaced you can buy a new car you can buy new furniture can build a [TS]

  new house as long as everyone is safe it but you can't recreate to those those [TS]

  photos that you know and we have all these devices that to make these [TS]

  memories what's keeping them safe and less you're a nerd and have like this [TS]

  crazy backup regime and know exactly where you know the problems are your [TS]

  stuff is completely vulnerable and we're so close now to having a technology [TS]

  where Apple or any other company could take care of us [TS]

  they don't and so that the problem with the photos I like you start taking [TS]

  pictures and you keep going and once you get past like a thousand pictures are [TS]

  you know whatever whatever the limit of was at 5 gigabytes really give you a [TS]

  nightclub you know if you drop those voters may only be on your phone and if [TS]

  you drop your phone in the ocean you lost all the photos that were in the [TS]

  last two thousand there in photostream or something that's if you you know i [TS]

  simply got to the processing gotta stop enforcing whatever I know people just [TS]

  some apples taking the pictures but at this point Apple should be taken care of [TS]

  everything [TS]

  Apple's devices should be designed in such a way that if they're [TS]

  network-connected devices that if you smash your computer with the hammer at [TS]

  your house burns down if you throw your iPhone the ocean your dishes still be [TS]

  available and I'm not saying I'm pleased to make that happen for free but they [TS]

  need to figure out some way to make it happen and back when I read about this [TS]

  in fact that ages ago was like I was saying that everything computers come [TS]

  with these two hard drives but you shouldn't tell people this to in there [TS]

  and all your data sure you're done at all times right because hard drive [TS]

  failure is a big problem [TS]

  online backups or antenna background because people don't have enough [TS]

  indications are saying look at least make it so that someone hard drive does [TS]

  it was all a picture of their kids always had like double and who can [TS]

  afford to do that I'll believe the only company that razor thin margins but [TS]

  Apple maybe could hike built into the price of the devices or whatever and at [TS]

  the end of this article [TS]

  suggestion that's like usable but it would be nice not the same type of thing [TS]

  make iCloud free this region or call me i cud free for the total size of oxygen [TS]

  Isis so if you have like a 16 gigabyte iPhone 4 32 you about iPad you should [TS]

  get forty eight gigabytes of iCloud for backup so did the very least every [TS]

  single byte of data on your phone or iPad can be backed up by a new iPad and [TS]

  it's starting to get no 3G 32 gigabytes of storage like make that the fault if [TS]

  possible make it free if you can't make it free [TS]

  built into the price of the device they're already like pretty impressed [TS]

  devices like it's important if you if Apple would commit to this they could be [TS]

  the vendor the gets the reputation like oh yeah costs more but you don't have to [TS]

  worry about losing your day-to-day keep their protected all for you like they'll [TS]

  keep it backed up you don't have to worry about you know monthly fees and [TS]

  all these other things and bring about your backup things you can buy an iPhone [TS]

  take pictures with it checking into a fire go to the Apple store get a new [TS]

  iPhone but you have to buy or not don't worry your pictures will be there Apple [TS]

  does not have a reputation nobody has a reputation now but the first person to [TS]

  get their reputation it will be worth alot to people because I think most [TS]

  people are using these devices and using their computers and stuff and they're [TS]

  all their digital memories are available and could be destroyed at any moment and [TS]

  just like crossing my fingers hoping it doesn't happen you know you're [TS]

  absolutely right now I had a friend call me maybe a month or two ago and he said [TS]

  you know my wife I think we're gonna get a new iPhone and of course this is just [TS]

  a month or so ago and I said oh my god no why is coming out soon what are you [TS]

  thinking and and so he said well she's out of space [TS]

  ok to take stuff off her phone then well she's got so many pictures on there [TS]

  depending on how many pictures you're talking about that may not be a problem [TS]

  well and she also she takes a lot of video [TS]

  goodness and so need talk talking to both they're both my friends but to [TS]

  talking to my friend the husband who called me and and his wife took a while [TS]

  talking them saying you've got to get the stuff off your phone because not [TS]

  only is it not secure on your phone like john is saying but it's taking up a [TS]

  credit to space especially 1080 video they mean thirty seconds videos like [TS]

  eight billion gigs and so you have to get off your phone there's no need to [TS]

  buy new phone just for that and then we're gonna put it ok well what do I do [TS]

  when I take it where do I put it and it used to be at least you could assume [TS]

  that a personal computer put on your personal computer but that's just [TS]

  another place where I can die because you put on your computer and then the [TS]

  person who was hard drives gonna die in t minus two and a half years and was [TS]

  gonna happen to know tonight doing backups right in there probably not even [TS]

  doing time she didn't want to buy a second hard drive it like there's no you [TS]

  want them to be taken care of you want to be able to just tell them like you [TS]

  could like you know what kind of computer should I get a Mac right you [TS]

  want to build so what's new about back to you want to say something like are [TS]

  you signed up for iCloud on all your devices yes then you're fine but you [TS]

  can't say nothing you can say that then you have to like a seven hour [TS]

  conversation about backup strategies it's going to be their eyes glaze over [TS]

  and even at the end of it [TS]

  you're going to be gone back home wondering ever gonna do anything I [TS]

  suggested they gonna forget about it is a time machine drive not to be mounted [TS]

  the not gonna notice or six months in there a little you know we as technical [TS]

  people trying to support less technical people don't have any peace of mind [TS]

  about this in reality so close to having you know we have basically technology [TS]

  and systems economic problem and the problem of nyquil [TS]

  Google's come the closest to the Chromebook initiative that the [TS]

  presentation they reside in the Chromebook despite the fact that just [TS]

  using a really expensive but nice looking laptop that only as a web [TS]

  browser is not appealing yet to be born this kind of limiting they have the red [TS]

  deer with like take your Chromebook run over the steamroller don't worry about [TS]

  to get a new Chromebook typing your stuff everything is back you didn't [TS]

  those things as long as we had time to upload it you're you're fine right I [TS]

  don't hold onto that's a big problem [TS]

  time to upload I know that's one of the big problems holding this up right now [TS]

  it isn't just about there is no web services that are highly integrated that [TS]

  are doing all this for you for low-cost or free that isn't that isn't the main [TS]

  problem the main problem is think about how many people on iPhones or devices [TS]

  like iPhones who are in a situation or have a home connection or have data caps [TS]

  in which uploading things to cloud backup uploading photos and videos to [TS]

  claw back on a regular basis is is impractical but you don't have to his [TS]

  uploaded I mean I think about you and we did that transporters spot like that [TS]

  where we have the technology do most things like if you just saved by a bunch [TS]

  of these things that stick around your house like potted plants and go on in [TS]

  your office and give unto your friend likes to know if it was just easy enough [TS]

  for you to like work work work clothes were really really close to being [TS]

  economically feasible for someone who can afford an iPhone to never have an [TS]

  excuse elucidated even if it's not cloud likely to be like the third tier like in [TS]

  the second tier is like have a computer system that's redundant and like the [TS]

  other two years like having lunch at the store network attached storage nodes [TS]

  around your house because like you know it's like a caching hierarchy we're like [TS]

  on the device is good and then when you get back home for your tears you know it [TS]

  to 11 AC Wireless that stupid to professor is going to happen in five [TS]

  years or whatever it takes that start to penetrate right [TS]

  gotta go to your little like transporter type devices are your time capsule or [TS]

  whatever and then the next thing is like an iPhone iCloud when you're sleeping if [TS]

  you know if you slow connection it will like you know we're almost there is just [TS]

  a matter of like working on a system in some company committing to anything you [TS]

  know what we're going to be responsible protect your data not saying things like [TS]

  when you're coming to the Genius Bar make sure you have a backup knowing [TS]

  everyone's gonna look at Mango whatever and then be pissed when all the Davis [TS]

  got on the computer at your parents like I'm sure it happens all the time to them [TS]

  and I like it in Apple's interest as like the premium vendor and the guy who [TS]

  makes the hardware and software and now they have web services to to get there [TS]

  before someone else does and figure this thing out when it gets its more than [TS]

  that to though is not because say you're on vacation and like say when when Marco [TS]

  and Tiffin and I were in germany what if I took a whole bunch of pictures on my [TS]

  iPhone because I'm not a photographer and I don't have a fancy pants camera [TS]

  pictures on my iPhone which at this point [TS]

  irreplaceable I may or may not have had access to any network connection but [TS]

  particularly wifi and all of a sudden now all those pictures are gone because [TS]

  Marco ran over my phone with his m5 but you have access to each other so like [TS]

  you should be able to have a family like this gets into the whole thing about [TS]

  families if you guys going on a trip together you should be able to enter [TS]

  into an arrangement whereby Alderaan things are transferred among yourself in [TS]

  the little circle of the ad hoc network that is your people there so that you [TS]

  drop your phone I don't worry I've got all your pictures they got pulled down [TS]

  onto my macbook air on just like you know there are some percentage of them [TS]

  like the technology is there for all these things to work it's just a [TS]

  question of working out the interface and the decision to do it it shouldn't [TS]

  it shouldn't be like that your devices as little island and you guys go on a [TS]

  weeklong vacation with no internet access and since you drop your phone all [TS]

  those pictures again like there are we should be able to stop that from [TS]

  happening in some way I mean is this balance between ease of use for regular [TS]

  people and getting around with all these educators and so the way to get around [TS]

  the edge cases usually involve [TS]

  local hardware where you have either like a time machine disk for a time [TS]

  capsule and and by the way I don't have the time capsules but that's a separate [TS]

  question so you have things like that to avoid the whole band width and depth and [TS]

  data cap issue but those things are all things that regular people are often [TS]

  going to either not think they need and therefore not bike is too expensive or [TS]

  they're not going to do it right and in a way that like I'm sure everyone listen [TS]

  to the show has some point had a friend or relative say oh I lost files my heart [TS]

  I can you help me get them back and you say ok yet you have a backup to say yes [TS]

  and you go over to their house and they they're here almost house Roma backup [TS]

  drive [TS]

  thinking in these people where they may buy an external hard drive is too small [TS]

  to buy an external hard drive and at just becomes the place where the files [TS]

  and they think it's a backup drive as an external hard drive and he called the [TS]

  back of anythink good as a backup but it's just one hard drive at the files on [TS]

  it I i just i I tuned out as soon as you said you had friends that had normal as [TS]

  no one ever as backup to external drives back up but now I'm with you but I can [TS]

  still trying to process the thought of a regular person not a nerd saying yes I [TS]

  do it anyway you have those people or you have the people who you know if you [TS]

  try to make it work from these cases the problem is that these modern devices the [TS]

  cameras keep getting better so you have these devices that you know you mention [TS]

  in the video you can tell her well your photos be backed up in low resolution [TS]

  for a little while but your videos mostly won't be because they're 400 megs [TS]

  each and that's impractical you know it you get around that stuff having local [TS]

  stuff that avoids a network once you involved the network though it can be [TS]

  easy and automatic for everyone so you either have local stuff that is [TS]

  expensive and can be easily misconfigured are screwed up that can [TS]

  back up everything or internet-based stuff that can be automatic [TS]

  and foolproof but you have that problem of bandwidth and data caps and therefore [TS]

  usually can't back up everything like I said we're so close it's kind of like [TS]

  when we just barely got technology to do digital distribution of audio because [TS]

  mp3 came out but we still couldn't really do movies or TV right and even [TS]

  today like audio is like no prob least throw around songs at their tiny files [TS]

  they you know they're easy to go you know that the ban within the memory [TS]

  capacity in computing everything totally went past audio but for video more like [TS]

  you can buy TV shows but we can really start them all and we can have a big [TS]

  hard drive so someone will stream kinda stream 1080p but doesn't look like we're [TS]

  just on the edge of being on the handle video and for things like video you [TS]

  record yourself in 1080p that's probably outside the round what we can handle [TS]

  where we're right on the cusp and I think it's okay to start with like we [TS]

  get you know we can only do songs but only crazy people are downloading video [TS]

  on the internet like back in the Napster days right just doing it for songs is a [TS]

  big win and it lets you sort of like work out the kinks of things go so that [TS]

  eventually ten fifteen years later when the movies to feature length movie star [TS]

  to be impossible to read is like how we can or will you support the stuff that [TS]

  with the iTunes Music Store in like it's just it's like a natural extrapolation [TS]

  to do to do movies for backups we should have been traveling the same road but [TS]

  haven't been like a need to be ambien like wi-fi like wi-fi wireless [TS]

  networking technologies nobody could use and now everybody can use it and how do [TS]

  we go from something that nobody uses something you'd like to know coffee [TS]

  shops have wifi ever has wifi how do you get on the wifi you know if you told [TS]

  somebody back in the early days of computer networking the regular people [TS]

  are going to be able to walk into a building and get on the network thereby [TS]

  you think a down the network to network administrator do to help them and [TS]

  they're going to configure the network stack on their operating system now [TS]

  they're not going to do that you work it out and so until you get to system that [TS]

  people can use you know and there is an investment in deep technology that Apple [TS]

  is not really doing Google's kind of doing that makes it possible to use its [TS]

  not like one company came up with the wireless networking like wi-fi and those [TS]

  wi-fi standards that is deep deep technology that you can't just like [TS]

  my only son came up with something in like you know six months and I think [TS]

  this is how we're going to wireless networking you have to have very smart [TS]

  people think about it for a long time ago through it you know [TS]

  standards process and get hardware vendors on board [TS]

  revise revise revise over and over again and then finally eventually 10 15 20 [TS]

  years later you reach the promised land [TS]

  you can't just say what we're gonna do backups and will have like the SUN [TS]

  device out there who like copy stuff and I'll make this photostream service and [TS]

  my photo upload to its will have the iPhone teamwork you gotta work think of [TS]

  it like as the overall problem say we need some side of you know to your bait [TS]

  a tiered storage architecture that works on any device and we're gonna take the [TS]

  next five years to develop this architecture we're gonna start small and [TS]

  we're gonna you know it's gonna be like peer-to-peer between our devices and [TS]

  it's also going to be you know pushing things up to the highest level they can [TS]

  get in an encrypted and shared in like maybe you file system of some kind [TS]

  mixed in there so you could send efficient block difference between i [TS]

  dont wanna talk about it but like that kind of that kind of like deep core [TS]

  technology you gotta work on that for years before you get any bang out of it [TS]

  if you don't work out at all you're gonna have his half a solutions that [TS]

  like Marco said you end up having edged cases that you think no one is going to [TS]

  be able to handle like you can't just sit around waiting for magically for us [TS]

  to have Gigabit upload bandwidth from everywhere into a magic cloud that you [TS]

  know like I guess maybe that will come eventually but we're close enough now [TS]

  like photos I think you could handle people stores maybe you can't handle [TS]

  their videos maybe they just because they're just too darn big and the [TS]

  ability to record video outpaced our stuff but I think you know apple and [TS]

  everybody else is dropping the ball on this and we really need a solution like [TS]

  with the hardware the tier this stuff could work we just don't have the [TS]

  software to do it and that that's a that's a failure of this offer guys [TS]

  think when I also wonder if we don't have the impetus to do it what I mean by [TS]

  that is I almost feel like we need computer hardware specifically mass [TS]

  storage to be less reliable in order to force regular people to care enough to [TS]

  demand these things like that that's work for Google like this that so many [TS]

  servers that you just have to build [TS]

  that's not the case with individual hardware right and it's like the [TS]

  argument that the only way we'll get more efficient cars is to make gas four [TS]

  times more expensive than it is you know it's a similar thing where if hard [TS]

  drives failed constantly then people would know I'm a need for copies of [TS]

  these pictures because I know one or two of the four gonna die in the next six [TS]

  months [TS]

  yeah we need a personal cast monkeys but the cast monkey yeah that's every [TS]

  company should have a cast and I'm not sure if it's like Netflix still does it [TS]

  as a one time thing over the PR stunts are they really have anything like that [TS]

  but the Cask Marque is within that likes the idea that they have something [TS]

  intentionally going around screwing up their systems to test that they had done [TS]

  his work so they don't wait for things to fail they have an active program or [TS]

  series of programs that go around and break stuff in their own like data [TS]

  centers to prove to themselves that ok if this type of machine goes down we're [TS]

  okay i three of you go down there ok this which ties were okay and they're [TS]

  doing it to themselves intentionally all the time to sort of build up their [TS]

  immune system so you have like a person who came at your house at night and [TS]

  smash morning or devices like randomly erased one of your hard drives like and [TS]

  they think I came like once every two months you would very quickly figure out [TS]

  some way you would figure out some way to develop the summer you would demand [TS]

  from all your vendors like Apple you know pick a smoke is coming to my house [TS]

  every night destroying things you guys got to come up with a better system to [TS]

  protect my dad because I'm losing all the pictures of my baby and that's why [TS]

  it gotta come from its gonna come from from the consumers like I mean that's [TS]

  what leadership is it shouldn't have to come from the consumer's Apple should be [TS]

  leaving here they they're in a position to do this type of thing they should be [TS]

  thinking about it and doing instead of being a putz is that they are still make [TS]

  it impossible for one family shared a single iPhoto library like same group [TS]

  alright but they're not and yes even came from the other direction that would [TS]

  really help us all but nice things stand at your hard-earned dollars every three [TS]

  years human memory size should you be like now I think I might have had those [TS]

  optical somewhere or you just like give up in like well I think opposed to most [TS]

  of the Facebook you know and I'll never look at them again I know what can [TS]

  happen all these people are like 80 years old you know fifty years from now [TS]

  they want to see you though the picture of their kid was when you're able to [TS]

  have them anymore cuz they won't have the physical photo albums that are [TS]

  parents to try to our parents house we can look at those books that point there [TS]

  at that a lot I have heard from a lot of people who have you know lost phones or [TS]

  whatever they they say oh I you know we still have the ones who puts a face but [TS]

  that's a very very common reaction and and kind of mental insurance policy for [TS]

  a lot of people I wonder you know what happens what happens like twenty years [TS]

  from now on Facebook shuts down to my facebook there but the terrible [TS]

  qualities they like read compressed oh yeah and good luck finding them thirty [TS]

  years from now thirty years you know I think we did that thirty years ago that [TS]

  stuns me is all have people friends relatives acquaintances that will have [TS]

  catastrophic data loss bad bad data loss and you know what they do differently [TS]

  after that happens not a thing they do what like what is their recourse like [TS]

  there are any buying like the best quote unquote they're buying Apple stuff and [TS]

  they were using them in like the way they see them used in Apple commercials [TS]

  and they still lost all their data so like they don't have the tools to fix [TS]

  this should have to fix it then it's on to say like Apple should be providing a [TS]

  way to make it as easy for them to have the data protected as it is for them to [TS]

  take their phone to a coffee shop to get on the network and I completely agree [TS]

  but I guess what I'm driving at is it seems like the moment data loss happens [TS]

  your average consumer says I guess that's gone now and that's that in there [TS]

  is no more discussion and natural disasters like we're working to [TS]

  earthquakes you can't be still regular people technology is basically just like [TS]

  the weather [TS]

  well you know you can complain about it but obviously this is unchangeable law [TS]

  of the universe that we're gonna lose data is most people who are adults today [TS]

  have grown up having all sorts of computer failures and most people don't [TS]

  use Macs and even people who do use Mac still have failures may be fewer of them [TS]

  are different ones but you know most people have grown up using some kind of [TS]

  crappy computers with crappy software and you know where where things are very [TS]

  constrained and expensive and unreliable and so almost everyone who's an adult [TS]

  today at some point had a computer that had to be wiped or that had a hard drive [TS]

  failure or something some somehow the computer was forced to be wiped started [TS]

  over so it's like to them it's like you know they're they're like an abusive [TS]

  relationship with that technology we're like they just like oh yeah okay I guess [TS]

  that's just what happened with computers too bad you know that they don't they [TS]

  don't know that it doesn't have to be that way and I don't quite understand [TS]

  why I again Apple of all companies hasn't jumped on this more because [TS]

  they're all about like figuring out what real people from that's that's why I was [TS]

  so successful because they had the vision of like people hate that come [TS]

  about installing and uninstalling stuff that people hate trying to find software [TS]

  bikes through Google certain stuff we just had one store and get a bundle icon [TS]

  appears if you don't like it you exited goes away that's what that's what people [TS]

  want and they did that in the graded everything about the iPad is so much [TS]

  better than the neck and terms of you know throwing in front of someone who's [TS]

  not a technical person saying here go nuts they can browse the web they can [TS]

  send email to play games it's fun it's you know it's not an even lower the [TS]

  price is cheaper than impact but this whole thing about keeping your day today [TS]

  still have those commercials dunno how beautiful it is you take pictures of [TS]

  your children and all these memories you having happy times and laughing with [TS]

  your friends and making videos and all that stuff is going to be gone in start [TS]

  the clock because this not doing anything to help you like protected [TS]

  long-term and maybe they think you're not supposed to protect him maybe you're [TS]

  just supposed to like enjoyed in the moment look at it and [TS]

  and let it disappear when you buy a new phone you drop in the ocean but they [TS]

  don't mention that in the commercial I cannot show that experience like that [TS]

  time we went to parrot look at those pictures out of those three phones ago [TS]

  house anymore we're running long should that be a good one more thing it is this [TS]

  the kind of thing you'd you'd think Apple would tackle I mean this is a big [TS]

  webservice big data back and maybe that's been good at it but like they're [TS]

  good at like saying that looking beyond the way things are done now to do like [TS]

  like cases the five whys and get all way down to the root problem like people [TS]

  don't want to deal with any of this stuff let's just saw their actual [TS]

  problem that actual problem is I want to browse the web I want to send email and [TS]

  iPad can let them do that without all sorts of complications and concepts that [TS]

  existed on the Mac complicated that they're good at cutting through that [TS]

  stuff and so this is another case where you know well backup is difficult and we [TS]

  always problems and how we gonna pay for this and we're going to store it and [TS]

  made people to have a blog bandwidth caps or whatever and you know like a [TS]

  time machine was a good step in that direction but that's like the last [TS]

  century step even the time she was in the last century Apple's the kind of [TS]

  company who has the margins and the control of hardware software and also [TS]

  usually the vision to not worry about the technical details and just figure [TS]

  out what people want to make it happen that's why I think yeah but you're [TS]

  forgetting that so much of this hypothetically relies on really strong [TS]

  Internet services we've all discussed ad nauseum that is not apples I know but [TS]

  they haven't liked the heavy like really even attempted it like it also depends [TS]

  on like deep technology like Core standards in like building [TS]

  infrastructure which is also not good at especially when it comes to data storage [TS]

  so many of Apple's blind spots but I I thought I would have rather seen them [TS]

  like three years ago come out with like Apple's new cloud file system it's [TS]

  everywhere at once and it would be a terrible problem not work but at least [TS]

  they had the right idea of like we are going to completely abstract storage on [TS]

  all levels knew this crazy multi hierarchy thing in [TS]

  understand it as a core OS feature not as like a GUI feature like a major [TS]

  version of iOS iOS 10 it has to be like a feature like the kernel or the file [TS]

  system has to be at that level where are the web service level never even [TS]

  attempted that they haven't made any run at like photostream is the closest I've [TS]

  come in that's like one little appendage hang off a couple of applications on iOS [TS]

  and Mac that's kind of weird and you could only recently delete things from [TS]

  that and understand how it works and it's not clear people at the mental [TS]

  model is and it sure as hell doesn't apply to anything some of the photos [TS]

  that you mention those particular applications like they're not done [TS]

  anything going for the big solution and failing there just maybe they maybe they [TS]

  know their limitations and it just like we have to nibble about that this from [TS]

  the edges I still don't know what photostream backs up doesn't like it so [TS]

  just assume it backs up nothing that's what people do like I remember for like [TS]

  six months photostream to show me black rectangles in iPhoto like they were my [TS]

  photos because they were the right number and i can tell from the [TS]

  orientation is the addition of my house but they were just completely black [TS]

  well that and then like you do you have the full resolution copies and forestry [TS]

  and where is it have smaller I think it's ok all right let's wrap thanks a [TS]

  lot to our to sponsor this week [TS]

  Warby Parker and igloo software and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now this show as they didn't even mean to begin it was accidental [TS]

  John [TS]

  Casey it was a joke and you can be a team Marco [TS]

  say this I think someone posted it again in the eye of some things talk about [TS]

  those people who are actually listening to this it's the STU does design studios [TS]

  I was not its to design our Stan Everex concept [TS]

  basically a OS iOS 7 style redesign of Mac OS can have a big better and hope [TS]

  this is not this year I actually don't think it's terrible though I feel like [TS]

  the menu bars totally out of place given the rest of the screen I have her ex [TS]

  thank you sam the geek that makes more about this I don't like but overall he [TS]

  looks fine I do you think Apple will go on an iOS 7 like direction with don't [TS]

  see why the Mac us to look anything I can see it being redesigned but I don't [TS]

  see any reason it has to look anything like I always liked it did did the max [TS]

  buttons ever look like I was as buns maybe they came close to a certain point [TS]

  but like they were like recessed like the iOS 6 buttons bar with like a little [TS]

  shadow on top of them they were on on top you know i mean i i would say that [TS]

  OS 10 never believed that much like I wasn't my first yeah I mean you can [TS]

  redesign the redesigned to look exactly like your other thing you can just be no [TS]

  but familiarity is never a bad thing especially new high design yeah that's [TS]

  true [TS]

  section review about that topic but you know you don't need a space thing about [TS]

  this right before the Iowa 7 1,000,000,000 the keynote was like the [TS]

  night before or something like that [TS]

  about how you know people people are trained on how to use interfaces these [TS]

  days and you don't really need something to look exactly like a button for people [TS]

  to figure out the bun stuff like that and some of this like you know you don't [TS]

  need ten to have the same visual style as iOS four people to know how to use it [TS]

  you know it's like [TS]

  just give it like a similar behavior like oh there are things you can click [TS]

  on that behave like buns there are labels there are no lists and structures [TS]

  and you know other ways to present data and to deal with it you don't need to [TS]

  look at the same you can have its own totally different visual theme and [TS]

  people figure out a hot dog stands 3.1 is to forget how to use it [TS]

  that said though like a straight up exactly I 007 style redesign I think it [TS]

  would work fine [TS]

  like because the I was seven style like there's not much to it right you know [TS]

  like it might like to look at look at the notification thing we're showing a [TS]

  notification like dogs got buttons like the iOS 7 concedes that the buns go [TS]

  ahead instead of being in the buttons like that's fine you know the window [TS]

  controls being lot line services thanks I mean that locals together but you know [TS]

  like these details but it doesn't look like crazy and looks reasonable but I'm [TS]

  not I'm not saying oh I don't look at me and I can tell you that I would like any [TS]

  kind of cool redesign but you know this right so even though it's only been two [TS]

  days has a review I wish that I wish the OS would work better so that I could [TS]

  review it is the review I don't know what their schedule is like because they [TS]

  putting out bills and things don't work out how can I write about them if they [TS]

  don't work well just 25 everytime you touch something at any touch interaction [TS]

  running 10 naps it logs and debug messages to the console on a truck [TS]

  solution just increased the program counter [TS]

  like to patch over fprintf doesn't obviously the shipping as bad as out on [TS]

  some kind of you know minimal testing or at least less testing schedule like [TS]

  you know it there if they ship that out leaving this this this extremely common [TS]

  debug print statement in there that's annoying every single iOS developer this [TS]

  week obviously you know what else are they leaving in there and I think it's [TS]

  at the start but I had a Cisco VPN client downloaded from the official [TS]

  Cisco website not a bad I'm not anything like that on OS 10 that would log like [TS]

  like a base 64 dump of the data it sends and receives all the data center [TS]

  receives [TS]

  like I installed it and I'm on the VPN and doing things on the air [TS]

  hard-driving tick tick tick tick tick on the console login my son's memory before [TS]

  just log change the database format anyway and there was there was all data [TS]

  so it's like well when I'm kind of the VPN is going to just abused my hard [TS]

  drive at any time by writing a little bit today that eventually gets flushed [TS]

  to disk things people will ship but works I want to write about iBooks [TS]

  yesterday and today but it is not in a state where I can use it to do things to [TS]

  write about today I spent a long time trying to purchase a book like it's the [TS]

  very first [TS]

  like and how cannot so now I'm in this annoying uncomfortable state where I am [TS]

  and I'm terrified to make screenshots of anything because like you know should I [TS]

  go nuts taking screenshots of everything now and then have to redo the mall or [TS]

  should it wait until like the very last minute and just do them in a scramble [TS]

  this time like 70% done with the writing which is not done with the with the [TS]

  production of this thing then naturally can we make the opening soundbite I [TS]

  spend a lot of time trying to buy a book just that good now I have a very [TS]

  important question was tipped listening live in another room and came running in [TS]

  at the eleventh hour was she actually hearing only one side of the [TS]

  conversation in the office for like the hour we spent before the Warby Parker [TS]

  spot neither of those when I when I knew this was coming up I sent her a I [TS]

  message [TS]

  saying come in now expected about 25 minutes and that was about 30 minutes [TS]

  and that was pretty good morning that I was like 30 35 something like that so I [TS]

  sent a message saying hey come on announced that she was here she said she [TS]

  watched me listen to John for about 45 seconds and then I passed over her so [TS]

  she could take not true man what i've seen [TS]

  not a lot of feedback about the last episode since it's only been out for a [TS]

  few hours but everyone is sad I got circles around I wanted in my ears [TS]

  immediately followed that was not granted there was like it was it was it [TS]

  was like you know we're still looking back on a bad experience wow what's [TS]

  Randy like randy is when I talk about TiVo or file systems for educators show [TS]

  the show on file systems and heard that everyone was mentioning you put into it [TS]

  covered on the same ground but then went forward more past what I have talked [TS]

  about my talk about a hundred more things have transpired although not much [TS]

  in the Apple world what's going on anything it was two days ago nothing now [TS]

  done things different now somebody's going on vacation all next week yet John [TS]

  back to back to the grind yeah so he doesn't know where we're going tomorrow [TS]

  she knows we're going but she doesn't know where it should be fine but we'll [TS]

  see how this works out on scared she's extremely easy going so it should be [TS]

  fine but I'm scared you guys back by not being here the entire fall [TS]

  be doing what you'll be doing you have no job you have nothing to do pretty [TS]

  much almost every weekend in September or October I'm doing something like it's [TS]

  crazy those months are insanely booked for me on Wednesdays [TS]

  findings I think I'm only gonna be like one Wednesday it's really not be easiest [TS]

  vacations get two for the show might be a problem trying to actually ship my [TS]

  apperance I'm most definitely not going to see you don't think I'll be there on [TS]

  day one I will I would give that like a 20 percent chance of this point maybe [TS]

  even less I really the more I do with it the more I want to do with it and i know [TS]

  im gonna obviously have that problem of you know [TS]

  taking forever never shipping version one but the bigger thing is I'm Way [TS]

  behind on even getting the basics done and some of its going faster than [TS]

  expected some of its going slower than I expected and so i dont im still too far [TS]

  out to say you know whether I will be able to get out there for day 1 like [TS]

  whether it's even possible but I'm guessing looking at it now it's not cuz [TS]

  you know what if what if day one is like late September that's what six weeks [TS]

  away and it's really it's pretty close and I still am still working on the [TS]

  naming issue I still have the company formed by what I'd like to give the [TS]

  company the same name as the product and therefore I don't have like the stupid [TS]

  DUNS number yet I can't get the Apple developer account yet so i cant get all [TS]

  my final certificates done and make her testing push notifications and all these [TS]

  all these things that no matter how much I worked my butt off right now there are [TS]

  these things all take blocks of time to have to be done in a certain sequins and [TS]

  so the reality of me getting this out there in any kind of ship but 1.0 state [TS]

  within six weeks is pretty much zero plus you should probably submitted like [TS]

  two weeks before the actual release date of the OS and approving the first two [TS]

  weeks ago so he's going to bounce back at least wants exactly i mean any any [TS]

  new app you got to assume you gonna be rejected so [TS]

  you know chances of me getting it out there for iOS 7 shirley is a pretty much [TS]

  no I mean the apt have to be almost done right now for that you know you have to [TS]

  have it pretty much ready to go [TS]

  ready to be in the App Store on day one you have to have all the curd [TS]

  effectively done now would have to be in a very advanced better and if it is not [TS]

  a very very bitter today you're probably going out there for day one [TS]

  yeah they're so what are you gonna put it out in March of next year I'm [TS]

  shooting for all as well you know but you know whose definition of fall like I [TS]

  wanna get out there for this fall I don't again I don't know how realistic [TS]

  it will be to hit any particular month and thinking october november is [TS]

  probably more reasonable for the holidays people get their iPhones and [TS]

  iPads for Christmas they can store up here but you have a busy October for [TS]

  sure I'm involved with I know half of your October I'm going so between [TS]

  September and October I'm going to two conferences that are that are very far [TS]

  away each I'm going to anniversary trip is it it's our 5th anniversary this year [TS]

  and I'm going to our driving trip which is gonna be awesome that's all that's [TS]

  like four major trips yet for major trips within two months where you goin [TS]

  free anniversary thing you want to share [TS]

  stated a little sort that we like yeah we want our wedding night excuse so you [TS]

  know it's and I'm coming all the stuff in to that time plus maintaining you [TS]

  know the blog this show you know if the general like baseline workload that has [TS]

  to do every week it's gonna be a rough rough rough early fall [TS]

  you know by by November so I should have an easier schedule in time for the [TS]

  holidays and all the family travel goes along with that I can help you out about [TS]

  just how you market that actually you have five vacation days left this year [TS]

  so you'll have [TS]

  imagine Fargo had a real J O B job a couple times now we've now everyone's [TS]

  confused about what the driving thing is I feel like we should just let them be [TS]

  confused yet to be confused will take pictures and put them somewhere that [TS]

  involves driving mister hint that's your big and John refused to come [TS]

  John if you chose not all even get me started about their items on either side [TS]

  of these things and I weigh the pros and cons and make a decision is not a [TS]

  refusal to do and obviously good thing nor is it a rejection of an obviously [TS]

  bet you John I'm only slightly kidding guess how many vacation days I have left [TS]

  this year after all I have put down the of 172 you can book too but I can [TS]

  actually just booked today just bought plane tickets after she booked it she [TS]

  said ok how many you have left it there really got any other water while I [TS]

  believe a moralist booked up I think I have I have to give myself like to keep [TS]

  to my back pocket for like one day one day I'll be sick and one day i maybe one [TS]

  day may be packed and has to do take a day off work to do like emergency Mac OS [TS]

  10 review scraggly hopefully I want to use that one nice I'm still mad at you [TS]

  either way but then kids get sick and had stayed home with the kids and [TS]

  sometimes you can be working from home and sometimes you can't depending on how [TS]

  sick the kid is taking to the doctor and limited vacation days it's like RTS [TS]

  where you have limited resources you can just know you cannot use mine for [TS]

  tomorrow or should we say two titles before I falsely three phones ago that's [TS]

  nice [TS]

  nicely encapsulates some of the things that we talked about is kind of [TS]

  interesting that might be the nicest thing you've ever had a title is looking [TS]

  for in Title is something that I can look at our money will be like the [TS]

  Thrustmaster on [TS]

  I'm not sure that we remind me what we talked about the TV show although I know [TS]

  I never had a Thrustmaster but I wanted one they were definitely very cool but [TS]

  the only reason I got it was because dad decided he wanted one [TS]

  yeah it wasn't really even it wasn't mine but I was going to use it that was [TS]

  during the time that dad loved getting us random fun piece of electronics and [TS]

  thought he would use them and they never told this to my son explicitly I said [TS]

  look the only reason you have all these video games is because I like playing [TS]

  video games games I'll let you play them if you really like to like the harmonica [TS]

  or something I can get you are Monica but I wouldn't spend the amount of money [TS]

  you know me like it like you're getting the advantage of overlapping with my [TS]

  hobbies and these are my game systems and games that's why you can't play a [TS]

  lot of them like you want to add a lasting loss and stuff like a grown-up [TS]

  game like it's kind of sad because you would think you'd like his two kids [TS]

  everything he gets every modern you know as soon as it comes out he gets every [TS]

  time we get there but they're not his their mind he doesn't have anything he's [TS]

  got every Lego known to man I guess that he does have those those are his but [TS]

  that's kinda because I want them to get exactly the truth comes out but there [TS]

  are his the Legos or his body against mine [TS]