00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is connected episode 606 today's show is brought to you by our sponsors century and squarespace i'm your defending keynote chairman federico vittici and i'm joined as always by the annual chairman himself from memphis tennessee in the right corner mr stephen hackett oh i feel
00:00:29 ◼ ► strong power yes you are strong and you are powerful thank you thank you don't let anybody tell you
00:00:36 ◼ ► otherwise i yes the kids keep picking on me and yeah so we're here you are here to defend your title
00:00:45 ◼ ► we're also joined though by somebody who is not currently a chairman he's just a regular guy and
00:00:50 ◼ ► will not be just a regular dude it's a regular dude regular dude my curly i'm just like the listener you
00:00:57 ◼ ► know i'm just like i'm here i'm listening and i'm regular yeah you're a regular i'm a regular guy
00:01:02 ◼ ► did i tell you guys that i've become a regular at a restaurant oh that's the best can you go in and get
00:01:08 ◼ ► the usual yes and it's it's a dream now the the waiters like the staff they see me they're like oh
00:01:14 ◼ ► it's you like the usual when you walk in is there like an applause or a laugh track or something no but
00:01:19 ◼ ► it's like they shake my hands and it's like and i've always dreamed of being like a regular at
00:01:25 ◼ ► any place yeah and especially i've always dreamed of being the kind of person that sits down and the
00:01:30 ◼ ► guy's like the usual i'm like yes here's my thing with that i have i have this like real conflict where
00:01:37 ◼ ► i want to be the regular but then as soon as somebody recognizes me as the regular i'm unhappy about it
00:01:43 ◼ ► no no that's that that that's the energy man being recognized as the regular so let me tell you this
00:01:51 ◼ ► is a regular so we had a we have a pizza place near us which we really like and we were going there
00:01:57 ◼ ► more when we moved in we would kind of go every week but we don't go as much anymore and they had a
00:02:03 ◼ ► special pizza once that we really liked and they stopped offering it but we would keep asking them
00:02:10 ◼ ► to make it yeah and they would do it and then once we went and they're like we put it on the menu
00:02:15 ◼ ► yeah that's on the permanent menu that's pretty cool right that's when you know you have the real power
00:02:20 ◼ ► when when they make something for you yeah i guess that's the only time i think i could consider
00:02:25 ◼ ► myself being recognized as a regular place is this pizza place yeah you know you go in and be like oh you
00:02:32 ◼ ► know like they come over she's like i know what you guys want you know so yeah that wasn't too bad
00:02:37 ◼ ► i i too have become a regular there's a mexican place around the corner from uh where we moved last
00:02:44 ◼ ► year and i've experienced this actually uh i don't think you've been to this one did you go to the
00:02:48 ◼ ► one by the new house i don't but i've experienced you at a mexican restaurant yeah you're a regular of
00:02:54 ◼ ► many of these restaurants then mexicans really easy for me to eat with my food allergy stuff because
00:02:59 ◼ ► this would be like no cheese it's an easy thing to do um the one that you have been to i now live
00:03:05 ◼ ► very far away from and there's a place literally around the corner and uh mary and i were in there
00:03:10 ◼ ► the other night and it was like one of the waiters who recognized me is like yeah i got you you know
00:03:14 ◼ ► it's cool it's the apple guy the one we used to go to i've seen it you you would you would start
00:03:20 ◼ ► giving your order and they were like yeah it's okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so i'm getting there with
00:03:38 ◼ ► known as big john don't think so um goes by bosh on social media okay have you ever seen this guy
00:03:48 ◼ ► um so it's this guy big john bosh is like his tagline or motto whatever oh yeah i have yeah
00:03:56 ◼ ► and he orders uh chinese takeout food yeah and he makes the most complicated um orders and he memorizes
00:04:05 ◼ ► everything and essentially people love his videos online because like he has a he has a style he's very
00:04:14 ◼ ► confident and he knows the takeout the the menus like by memory like complicated orders and he knows how
00:04:22 ◼ ► to improvise on the spot even in different languages and a few days ago he was inducted in the guinness
00:04:30 ◼ ► world records um um thing uh for having memorized the most uh chinese menu items in 30 seconds
00:04:39 ◼ ► and they'll just give a guinness record for anything yeah yeah yeah yeah and and it basically ends all
00:04:46 ◼ ► these videos by saying bosh which i have no idea what it means it's just like there you go that's the way
00:04:54 ◼ ► i'll describe it bosh translates to there you go there you go like that i love it i love it so um we have
00:05:01 ◼ ► non-food related follow-up uh which is incredible follow-up i'll introduce this one steven if you'll
00:05:08 ◼ ► allow me please um from connected listener darren uh made something truly extraordinary uh i'm guessing
00:05:17 ◼ ► inspired maybe to an extent by my recent work on command line interfaces i think that we said this
00:05:24 ◼ ► i think i asked for it on on an episode steven steven mentioned it as a joke for something like this to
00:05:32 ◼ ► exist we now have con ctl the connected cli it's a command line companion app i'm reading from the
00:05:40 ◼ ► github repo for the connected podcast to build for fans hosts ai agents and mostly because steven mentioned
00:05:47 ◼ ► it as a joke once um con ctl has a beautiful splash screen with the six colors uh and um
00:05:55 ◼ ► obviously was inspired by steven by steven saying connected exit uh i believe last week when we were
00:06:01 ◼ ► talking about my uh ram ctl command line and what's beautiful about this like this is not a joke i
00:06:07 ◼ ► actually installed it via codex on my mac and this connected cli uh gives you um output for all kinds of
00:06:15 ◼ ► connected data and trivia both in a readable fashion for humans and as json output for agents
00:06:23 ◼ ► what's beautiful about this is that you have multiple commands to choose from including for
00:06:27 ◼ ► example being able to search for episode titles being able to search for show notes being able to
00:06:32 ◼ ► search for follow-up for topics for closing segments and uh it allows you especially if you're
00:06:38 ◼ ► using this with an agent to ask the agent to retrieve some very specific connected data
00:06:44 ◼ ► so i'll give you some examples i set it up with codex on my mac and it installed it and then i
00:06:51 ◼ ► asked okay now that you have it can you see who's been keynote chairman the most and since this cli
00:06:57 ◼ ► written in go by the way which is really nice um has the kind of data it can run through the entire
00:07:04 ◼ ► connected database and has a history of all the episodes and all the segments that were special like
00:07:10 ◼ ► uh ricky's episode uh the cli after 36 seconds reported federico's being keynote chairman the most
00:07:17 ◼ ► the leaderboard uh via the historical keynote games is the following federico 11 steven 6 and mike 6
00:07:24 ◼ ► then i asked how about winners of the flexes the the flexes winners overall are steven with 10
00:07:30 ◼ ► federico and mike tied with 7 and tbd obviously the 2026 annual rickies uh then i asked for and this
00:07:40 ◼ ► prepare this is a throwback i asked what's timer coalescing and uh uh codex i don't know what it did
00:07:50 ◼ ► let me see i think it also searched the web because it couldn't find the timer coalescing in the show notes
00:08:00 ◼ ► it shows up in the old relay slash the prompt show notes as a linked listener source account
00:08:06 ◼ ► and conctl sometimes mangles it as tambor coalescing yeah that's a that's i believe some of the transcripts
00:08:15 ◼ ► are being done with whisper so that's to be expected that kind of typo okay uh but overall this is a truly
00:08:24 ◼ ► incredible piece of work for the connected fan base you can even steven you can uh ask conctl ricky's bill
00:08:32 ◼ ► and it gives you the full current bill of ricky's you can possible no way i can keep up there's version
00:08:40 ◼ ► history for the bill of ricky's so you can do conctl ricky's bill dash dash version annual 2017
00:08:47 ◼ ► and it gives you a previous edition of the bill of ricky's it's or you can say conctl ricky's titles
00:08:54 ◼ ► steven and it prints the current title for steven so thank you darren this is truly outstanding work
00:09:03 ◼ ► and mike you were struggling with some words on a previous episode to address this well that's
00:09:11 ◼ ► not to be addressed you like i know i need i need a screenshot of apple notes for you apologizing for
00:09:17 ◼ ► the wrong word so steven was talking about his new static blog engine uh that he uses because he's so
00:09:25 ◼ ► cool and i said i was it reminded me of uh well i thought that that people were talking about
00:09:31 ◼ ► accessibility and ed wrote in to said i was probably thinking of a11y and it's like yes i know
00:09:37 ◼ ► like i i didn't feel like it needed to be explained but sure that that is the it's like a a phrase that
00:09:43 ◼ ► people use because they will often misspell the word accessibility because there's a lot of letters
00:09:48 ◼ ► in accessibility and how many of each of them um but yes so a11y is the the numeronim nummeronim
00:09:57 ◼ ► for i don't know what that word means and also notion puts a red underline under it so that could
00:10:03 ◼ ► just be fake um so yeah that's that's the phrase yes if people really needed me to to talk about this
00:10:09 ◼ ► and there you go you have it and mike congratulations are in order to you you and jason launched your
00:10:16 ◼ ► kickstarter on monday and it's going very well yes and people may say wait a kickstarter can oh i did
00:10:22 ◼ ► talk about this right on the last episode with t said a little bit yes so designing california is a
00:10:27 ◼ ► podcast that jason and i will now be producing for relay um it is uh going to be coming later in the
00:10:33 ◼ ► year um it is a podcast focused on apple history uh we put up the kickstarter campaign on monday it
00:10:40 ◼ ► funded uh on monday um and is going incredibly well so if you want to uh check it out check out the
00:10:46 ◼ ► reward tiers that we have and kind of pre uh pre-purchase a membership for this podcast uh go
00:10:52 ◼ ► to designed.fm and if you want a taste of it uh episodes are rolling out as of today in the upgrade
00:10:59 ◼ ► feed over the next four weeks to of designing california we're kind of doing some preview
00:11:04 ◼ ► episodes um so every thursday uh this month we're putting out an episode of the road to the apple 2 which
00:11:11 ◼ ► is the first kind of story that we're tackling so people can go and check that out too and then they
00:11:15 ◼ ► can go back to kickstarter campaign at designed.fm thank you if you have yeah it's it's super exciting
00:11:22 ◼ ► to see it do so well um y'all funded right as you started recording upgrade on monday yeah two hours
00:11:27 ◼ ► really special it was pretty unbelievable uh and it's just it's the we're in this moment now i think
00:11:34 ◼ ► where it's like the the um this we're the good the good problem to have of it's been so successful
00:11:41 ◼ ► it's blown past a lot of the plans that we had for stretch goals and stuff um we kind of did it all
00:11:48 ◼ ► very quickly and so we're we're we're just trying to work out what are the right things that we can add
00:11:53 ◼ ► into the campaign for people we've got some fun stuff that we're planning um that we're going to be
00:11:58 ◼ ► talking about over the next few weeks um i wanted to ask the two of you you know wwdc is next week
00:12:05 ◼ ► the keynote is on monday uh how are you feeling what's the vibe i'm excited yeah i think it's gonna
00:12:12 ◼ ► i think it's gonna be different i think um i'm keen to see what apple can do when when and if they get
00:12:22 ◼ ► their act together with ai because i feel like i mean obviously and rightfully so we made fun of the
00:12:32 ◼ ► whole situation for the past two years but the truth still stands that a platform like ios and i mean in
00:12:41 ◼ ► general the entire apple ecosystem with an integrated ai that actually works well could really eat into our
00:12:51 ◼ ► usage of stuff like chat gpt or claude and it could be so much better than you know all the chatbots that
00:13:00 ◼ ► we've been using without integration with the apps that we use every day and what i've especially missed
00:13:07 ◼ ► over the past couple of years and the reason why i'm excited is that i've been using all of these ai
00:13:12 ◼ ► services without the apps i love the most right all the indie apps for ios and mac os from the
00:13:21 ◼ ► developers i care about because they couldn't integrate with those ai services and now in theory
00:13:26 ◼ ► they will be able to and that makes me really excited because i feel like that entire part of
00:13:31 ◼ ► my job has been put on hold for the past couple of years meanwhile the tech space went into this new
00:13:39 ◼ ► direction and apple was behind and here's their chance to catch up and bring their developers
00:13:44 ◼ ► along for the ride and that makes me really really excited are you excited about the possibility or
00:13:51 ◼ ► you're excited because you think it's actually going to happen isn't that the same question
00:13:56 ◼ ► not really um because the possibility of it is amazing but you know how things go where like
00:14:03 ◼ ► we're so excited about the possibility of something but then they don't deliver the way that we want
00:14:07 ◼ ► them to no i think it's gonna happen especially with all this pr drama and money on the line uh you don't
00:14:15 ◼ ► put out a joint statement with google months before if you don't think you have it and i think they i i
00:14:23 ◼ ► think they know they have it okay this time i hope you're right yeah because you know it's just saying
00:14:30 ◼ ► about like with all the apps and services you use like you know i have to these these agents and services
00:14:38 ◼ ► they want your context your personal context right the way they get that from me is me slowly giving it to
00:14:45 ◼ ► them over time but my iphone has everything on it already yeah yeah so look i don't think i'm gonna be i'm gonna
00:14:51 ◼ ► stop using codex or cloud code nor do i think apple will put out a competing agent type of system for work
00:14:58 ◼ ► yet this year but if i have a pretty good llm that's just one swipe away from the status bar
00:15:13 ◼ ► i don't have to use a coding agent all the time for ai to be useful i guess is what i'm trying to say
00:15:26 ◼ ► steven will sure vibe i mean i'm not as psyched about the ai stuff as federico but i think it's
00:15:33 ◼ ► very interesting to watch them retread ground in 24 but hopefully in a very different way like i'm much
00:15:40 ◼ ► more excited about the sort of high level like how does apple talk about this what do they deliver
00:15:49 ◼ ► mm-hmm um i also think it's just it's really going to be interesting to see what they do in their
00:15:55 ◼ ► platforms that's not apple intelligence related because there may not be much it may be a pretty
00:16:01 ◼ ► quiet year outside of this and you know there have been times in the past where there's like one really
00:16:09 ◼ ► big feature and then there's that's kind of the bulk of things yeah and this it seems like to me
00:16:17 ◼ ► is going to be one of those times where it's like there's a big pile of apple intelligence stuff maybe
00:16:21 ◼ ► there are a few things around the edges we're going to get to some of those in our in our picks i think
00:16:25 ◼ ► but um i think it's gonna be a very uh lopsided year in terms of apple intelligence so how do they
00:16:31 ◼ ► talk about that how do they how do they demo it right like when people like the two of you are
00:16:36 ◼ ► like in demos and like seeing things like what what what is different now than two years ago i think
00:16:44 ◼ ► that's really important and maybe even like more important than individual features or individual
00:16:50 ◼ ► details is where is apple with this stuff and how are they talking about it you know you mentioned um
00:16:57 ◼ ► like when when something comes along and dominates it and it takes up most of their time and it
00:17:03 ◼ ► threw me black threw me back to the year where they unveiled swift yeah and i remember it being one of
00:17:10 ◼ ► the most for me one of the most boring keynotes like we were me and you were watching it in twitter's
00:17:19 ◼ ► office right we were and we're just like everyone's just sitting there looking around each other it's
00:17:24 ◼ ► like oh my god when is this gonna end they're doing code in the keynote please stop uh it for me
00:17:30 ◼ ► was that one was uh that one was a rough one but i think this one uh all apple music the apple music
00:17:38 ◼ ► year oh yeah and that was like tacked on to the end of a very long keynote already it was like an hour
00:17:44 ◼ ► so strange so that was that was the worst one that was weird um i expect a similar thing but
00:17:51 ◼ ► more interesting uh but like yes it will be all apple intelligence plus a few other things and i'm
00:17:58 ◼ ► i'm wondering how many other things make it into the keynote compared to how many other things there
00:18:04 ◼ ► might be on the product pages afterwards you know like are is there stuff that they're just not going
00:18:11 ◼ ► to put in the keynote but could be really interesting i think it's going to be fun to start digging into
00:18:14 ◼ ► next week this episode of connected is brought to you by century most ai tools help you code seer by
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00:19:48 ◼ ► the rickies is a game connected hosts play before apple keynotes and the beginning of a new year
00:19:55 ◼ ► trying to predict future events it's made up of three rounds each host makes two regular picks
00:20:01 ◼ ► followed by a risky pick there are two types of rickies today we are playing the keynote rickies
00:20:08 ◼ ► the keynote rickies winner is named the keynote chairman this position is held until the next
00:20:13 ◼ ► keynote that's currently federico hosts should be introduced at the top of each episode according
00:20:18 ◼ ► to their current titles which we do in the event that a host holds both positions they shall be
00:20:25 ◼ ► introduced as the ricky benjamin so if i win i become the benjamin because i'm the annual
00:20:29 ◼ ► keynote chairman currently after the rickies there's a host that we play called the flexies
00:20:40 ◼ ► each host gets to make two regular picks host can be granted a bonus regular pick for any previously
00:20:55 ◼ ► incorrect pick that has now come true from the last corresponding games last three corresponding games
00:21:00 ◼ ► a previously incorrect pick may be used only once we're going to come back to this i have a suggestion
00:21:06 ◼ ► correct regular picks awarded one point the language used for regular picks must be finalized
00:21:13 ◼ ► and agreed upon during recording and no partial points may be awarded risky picks have a more complex
00:21:20 ◼ ► scoring system each host must make a pick with three supporting details if you get all three details
00:21:27 ◼ ► correct you earn two points if you get two details correct you earn one point one detail correct will earn
00:21:34 ◼ ► you zero points and if you get all three details wrong you lose a point and points are only awarded
00:21:40 ◼ ► based on the details not the overall pick pick must have been proved as risky by the two other hosts before
00:21:48 ◼ ► the start of the game picks made for keynote rickies cannot be reused by the host who made them for the next
00:21:54 ◼ ► keynote for keynote rickies the scoring window starts when the live stream begins and closes when the picks
00:22:01 ◼ ► are scored any information used in scoring must be publicly verifiable at the time of recording
00:22:08 ◼ ► all hosts are allowed to reuse picks previously made by others scoring is completed during recording and
00:22:14 ◼ ► cannot be modified once an episode is complete in the event of a tie diced by p calc must be used in relay mode
00:22:21 ◼ ► to pick a winner in the case of a three-way tie hosts all make their calls at the same time with flipping
00:22:28 ◼ ► continuing until a winner is named jason snell previously had a lifetime ban on flipping any
00:22:33 ◼ ► coins in relation to the rickies however he graduated coin flip university during the 2024 podcastathon for
00:22:39 ◼ ► saint jude and he can now flip a coin under direct supervision the order of picks is set by previous
00:22:46 ◼ ► performance the winner of the previous associated game goes first the previous loser goes last winners
00:22:52 ◼ ► will be recognized during the closing ceremonies past results can be seen at rickies.co and rickies.net
00:22:58 ◼ ► these sites also have pages about managing your own scorekeeping at home you may be seated
00:23:03 ◼ ► okay i have i have an amendment i would like to make oh no i would like to get rid of the bonus picks
00:23:13 ◼ ► why because one i don't think anyone really understands how they work but two i don't think
00:23:20 ◼ ► so the goal was we had we had this this talk it was like the the blue sky talk or blue shell blue shell
00:23:26 ◼ ► talk like the idea that you could like slingshot around in a game and come ahead and the bonus picks
00:23:32 ◼ ► were an attempt at that but we also don't have them often enough for that to really be the case so i think
00:23:39 ◼ ► it's too complicated and it's not effective enough and so i would vote to strike the bonus picks and come
00:23:45 ◼ ► up with something else in the future i think i'm i mostly agree because i think that the
00:23:50 ◼ ► the system is complicated for working out how you pick something like how you you qualify for something
00:24:02 ◼ ► and but i i still stand by i like the idea of there being some kind of like earnable advantage
00:24:11 ◼ ► but i don't know what to do about that yeah i don't that's not that's sort of the problem with
00:24:16 ◼ ► my suggestions i don't have like a drop-in replacement but um historically also rules have rule changes have
00:24:24 ◼ ► applied to the next game and so we do have some time i think between now and september to come up with
00:24:35 ◼ ► yeah so we'll take suggestions if people have suggestions they should write in and let us know
00:24:42 ◼ ► like what are the ways in which somebody could earn points or picks okay right so what i'm hearing steven is
00:24:53 ◼ ► that you are um intentionally giving up on the bonus pick that you're gonna get in this game
00:24:58 ◼ ► i wasn't getting a bonus pick was i i don't think he is that's the problem no one knows yeah they're
00:25:03 ◼ ► saying jason is saying that you are in the discord what does jason say but i took a look at jason's
00:25:11 ◼ ► link and i can't work out what he's supposed to get a point about there is a new entry level mac laptop
00:25:16 ◼ ► powered by an a series chip and see that's confusing because that's a a ricky pick a risky pick and like
00:25:22 ◼ ► that's right but i didn't score all the sub points correctly so i don't see i don't know that doesn't
00:25:28 ◼ ► i don't know the system is complicated and i think maybe now that we have our sort of three condition
00:25:34 ◼ ► based risky pick it's become more manageable to score this game so maybe we don't need the effect of the
00:25:41 ◼ ► that's a good point because the bonus point was because we kept tying all the time and we don't
00:25:48 ◼ ► tie i mean we did last time we don't tie as much especially not three-way ties yeah yeah so let's
00:25:54 ◼ ► we'll put it to a vote but my i move that we strike the bonus regular pick yeah and leave the door open
00:26:02 ◼ ► to other changes in the future yes and i i would like to leave the connected feedback form open to
00:26:08 ◼ ► suggestions of those changes in case anybody has a recommendation for a way in which a bonus pick
00:26:15 ◼ ► could be um great i mean i also had a thought just where steven read no partial picks and no partial
00:26:22 ◼ ► points i would love it if it was for a partial point let's change that rule that like the bonus round
00:26:28 ◼ ► gets you half a point why not it's you know it's just for fun okay well we can tip this whole thing on
00:26:33 ◼ ► it's head the whole reason we have the rules is because of partial points let's just get rid of
00:26:38 ◼ ► that make the bonus round for half a point and then we change all that's no because we want to get rid
00:26:42 ◼ ► of the bonus the bonus pick so no but there'll be a different way to get a bonus is what i want like an
00:26:48 ◼ ► easier more understandable way of getting an additional pick they can get you half a point
00:26:54 ◼ ► that would be fun okay i think okay that's my pitch but i don't know what the way is to get you that
00:27:00 ◼ ► okay so let's see what the people say leave us feedback for now i'm striking this from the bill i've
00:27:05 ◼ ► updated the document um and we will move forward okay all right that being said it's time for round one and i'm going
00:27:19 ◼ ► first my round one pick is apple unveils a new siri experience ding pretty basic wait non graded i expect a
00:27:32 ◼ ► chatbot ui i expect to be able to have some kind of access to previous chats i expect part of it to be
00:27:41 ◼ ► powered by google technology i don't think apple will show you google gemini is actually responding
00:27:48 ◼ ► to you right now but who knows um i do think there's going to be some kind of google logo or google attribution
00:27:55 ◼ ► somewhere uh just like they do they used to do with the weather channel for example in the weather app
00:28:01 ◼ ► it will be in the settings for sure it'll be it'll be somewhere right it'll be somewhere but yes i expect
00:28:08 ◼ ► there to be a brand new siri new ui a proper chat bot you can have your previous chats and go back to them
00:28:15 ◼ ► uh the whole thing i have a question for you not about the pick but it comes to mind in your pick
00:28:28 ◼ ► what's better to to teach people a whole new name or to really push the marketing for the next six
00:28:37 ◼ ► months and say new siri new siri new siri and people be like oh new siri what's that like yeah i don't
00:28:42 ◼ ► know i think they're gonna keep the name siri i think jason said this once an upgrade of like
00:28:49 ◼ ► in having this conversation of siri is good now right it's like that's pretty decent like if you
00:28:56 ◼ ► can get people saying that yeah that is maybe more impactful than beery you know we've got a new
00:29:06 ◼ ► one it's called beery and uh you just use that instead they at least they it has name recognition
00:29:12 ◼ ► right whoever people like it or not it has name recognition so yeah i don't know i see the question
00:29:18 ◼ ► because it's like if you really want people to trust it yeah starting all over again like truly
00:29:25 ◼ ► starting over again is maybe easier than trying the uphill battle of no you trust us it's actually
00:29:37 ◼ ► of like it's better because of this it's better because of this yeah and i don't have a sense of
00:29:41 ◼ ► like what do the masses that use the iphone think about siri like do they think it's bad or are they
00:29:47 ◼ ► fine with it because maybe they don't i think so i think i've seen enough jokes in in comedy tv shows
00:29:56 ◼ ► people i think that that is because it attaches to people of it's not good like i've seen i've seen enough
00:30:11 ◼ ► um if they do do this like if they do do this i know we're expecting to do this but if they
00:30:17 ◼ ► do this it will be a very big turnaround from where they were in 2024 because it was quite clear in 2024
00:30:25 ◼ ► that they had no interest in offering this kind of user interface like what they wanted to do
00:30:31 ◼ ► was put siri in everything right and apple intelligence in everything hey you don't need
00:30:36 ◼ ► to talk to the a specific system because it's everywhere you want it to be and obviously that
00:30:41 ◼ ► did not pan out so this will be very much a all right we lost that one and now we're doing it
00:30:49 ◼ ► because it's what people expect of us yeah yeah i don't know i mean i think about like google rebranded
00:30:56 ◼ ► there's and it's been fine but google's also not apple so yeah but bard didn't have like 15 years of
00:31:04 ◼ ► name recognition that's true that's true it's a good point i i was thinking about it over there
00:31:10 ◼ ► i heard someone say gemini i was like what was it called and also bard was terrible branding like
00:31:21 ◼ ► uh my first round pick is that apple intelligence gains grammar checking features okay yeah yeah
00:31:30 ◼ ► i think that this would just be a much better version of building tools into the keyboard and
00:31:37 ◼ ► then like just pure text generation or like rewriting text you don't have to rewrite my text
00:31:45 ◼ ► for me just tell me how tell me how i can make it better and make some suggestions yeah i would like
00:31:50 ◼ ► that a lot i think that would be super useful and i think people would get more use out of that and
00:31:55 ◼ ► feel better about it then uh my phone is just gonna rewrite all of my stuff in a positive tone for me i think
00:32:02 ◼ ► people will be maybe more keen to use tools that are essentially a beefed up spell checker
00:32:10 ◼ ► um then i don't know what you'd call it just something that's trying to like rewrite everything
00:32:16 ◼ ► for you no i i think this is this is good jason said this i think on upgrade or maybe the
00:32:21 ◼ ► secret six colors podcast but it was so smart it's one of those things that as soon as he said it i was
00:32:26 ◼ ► like i wish i had thought of that um currently writing tools are very bolted on to like the side of
00:32:36 ◼ ► and if you want this stuff to be used by people you've got to make it more accessible in terms of
00:32:44 ◼ ► where it is and how they get to it and i think grammarly is a good example right like i have
00:32:49 ◼ ► grammarly installed in chrome and so because i do a lot of writing like in rcms and other places on the
00:32:54 ◼ ► web and it's really useful to have it just there and i can ignore it if i don't want it or i can disable
00:33:00 ◼ ► it on a whole web page if i want that sort of level of it's just right where i am it gives me
00:33:07 ◼ ► suggestions but it's not overbearing it grammarly doesn't want to rewrite all my stuff it now it makes
00:33:12 ◼ ► changes that i reject like tone wise but that's different than oh let me rewrite this email to your
00:33:18 ◼ ► boss in like a happy joyful ways like i don't i don't want that and i don't want i would much
00:33:23 ◼ ► prefer tools like what you mentioned like grammar spelling uh you know tense mismatch those sorts of
00:33:29 ◼ ► things to be highlighted to me and let me remain in control of those corrections and not just hand
00:33:35 ◼ ► things over to the to the llm okay my round one pick is that there is no new hardware announced okay um i
00:33:46 ◼ ► know that the m5 like is not in the mac mini or the mac studio but i don't think that the given the
00:33:54 ◼ ► situation of the world and the m4 versions of that machine that apple is is capable of shipping m5s or m5 pro
00:34:03 ◼ ► ultra max whatever and so i think when it's going to come and go no hardware announcements no apple tv
00:34:11 ◼ ► no home pod nothing no airpods of a camera no no i think i think the only thing it could be is you
00:34:19 ◼ ► know mac mac mini mac studio but i don't think uh i don't i don't think they can do it i think they're
00:34:26 ◼ ► clearly struggling to get m4 stuff out the door and you know maybe yeah i could see a world like well
00:34:32 ◼ ► that's because they've been stockpiling for the m5 release but i don't i just doesn't seem to me like
00:34:39 ◼ ► this is going to be a hardware event plus there's so much software stuff to talk about like there's
00:34:44 ◼ ► plenty to do and i think um i think it's going to be software only can you imagine if they get you
00:34:51 ◼ ► with an apple tv update oh the best oh my god it'd be so good like home pod mini with apple intelligence
00:34:57 ◼ ► yeah or or like uh okay we need to draw the line what about like a watch band new hardware i mean that's
00:35:09 ◼ ► hey you never know like they can put things on the apple store at any time no you know that's not
00:35:15 ◼ ► gonna put they're gonna put out an apple 50th uh watch band announce it at wwdc and you'll be screwed
00:35:22 ◼ ► with this point you read the rule steven like the the point scoring window is from the keynote until
00:35:27 ◼ ► the podcast is recorded i know and we we should say we're gonna record on friday next week so we got
00:35:32 ◼ ► an extra day an extra day to get some hardware day for a press release i should say can you imagine
00:35:38 ◼ ► like we we recorded uh my 10 a.m at like uh 10 01 they release something it's god made it god it'd be
00:35:45 ◼ ► so good or like it's while the show like while the show's going because it's until we get to the
00:35:50 ◼ ► scoring right so we're still in follow-up and then they announce something so great real-time follow-up
00:35:56 ◼ ► there's a new mac mini oh man uh but you going back to what you're saying about the stockpiling thing
00:36:01 ◼ ► like if they had been stockpiling mac minis for months or whatever just put it out right like if you
00:36:08 ◼ ► if you've not got any stock to sell people because you're stockpiling just bring the announcement forward
00:36:13 ◼ ► in that situation right like maybe would it really be that beneficial to have to show it at wwdc if you just
00:36:27 ◼ ► the mac studio could be like a new mac studio like a super powerful mac studio but i don't
00:36:33 ◼ ► i don't think that's coming because of the ram problem specifically right like if you're gonna
00:36:42 ◼ ► 400 gigabytes of ram in it or whatever they would do now so yeah all right that's round one no it is
00:36:50 ◼ ► time for round two my round two pick is the camera app gets siri slash apple intelligence integration
00:36:59 ◼ ► um i expect there to be some kind of siri button siri icon essentially apple trying to bring visual
00:37:10 ◼ ► intelligence right into the camera app uh to really show people that they got the ai integration with the
00:37:17 ◼ ► camera going uh i don't think visual intelligence has exactly worked out in terms of popularity or
00:37:24 ◼ ► ease of access really um the whole camera control thing is debatable at this point and i think apple wants to
00:37:34 ◼ ► show off that they have a model now that they have a version of siri that is truly multi-model that can
00:37:40 ◼ ► uh see what's around you via the camera that can for example you can point the camera at a nutrition label
00:37:49 ◼ ► and it'll tell you yeah maybe don't eat these uh these uh uh this snack because it's gonna be bad for you
00:37:55 ◼ ► or i'm gonna eat six almonds i'm gonna eat it yeah remember that yeah yeah uh i don't know i think
00:38:02 ◼ ► they want to show off the visual intelligence side of apple intelligence in a better more prominent
00:38:09 ◼ ► place and the camera is the place um so i think we're gonna get this so i want to make a prediction
00:38:27 ◼ ► that they're they're going to put the siri mode in a place that we don't want it to be like it's
00:38:32 ◼ ► going to be too prominent in the camera app and over the course of the beta it's going to be changed
00:38:37 ◼ ► like it will be like the first swipe they'll put it in between photos and videos or something
00:38:42 ◼ ► ridiculous right like it it's going to be in a place that people don't like it and it will change
00:38:47 ◼ ► before it gets released or maybe people will be asking for a toggle to turn it off entirely
00:38:52 ◼ ► uh yeah but like keep apple intelligence on but turn it off in the camera something like that because
00:38:58 ◼ ► it's just i i think that i don't think that it's just on paper i don't think it's a good idea to put it
00:39:06 ◼ ► like in the camera ui like i think it makes more sense as accessible another way accessible through siri
00:39:18 ◼ ► i would love to be proven wrong but i'm just not sure that that is the experience that i and most
00:39:24 ◼ ► people are going to want like that it's like a different mode you know like in your mind but
00:39:31 ◼ ► we'll see and so i think that first they're going to try and put it too prominently because they want
00:39:35 ◼ ► people to use it and then it's going to annoy people and they move it they keep it in the app
00:39:39 ◼ ► but they like move it to a different thing maybe it's just accessible via one of these like
00:39:43 ◼ ► potentially customizable buttons or something inside of the new ui or whatever also i wanted to address
00:39:50 ◼ ► the camera control slander that's been happening on this show in today's episode and in the episode
00:39:54 ◼ ► when i was on vacation i love camera control for what just launching the camera it's it's fine for
00:40:01 ◼ ► that the swiping is bad so you don't love camera control you love a button to launch the camera yes but i
00:40:08 ◼ ► don't want it to be the action button because i use that all the time for something else i like
00:40:12 ◼ ► having a dedicated button for opening my camera i think they can keep that but get rid of all i mean
00:40:18 ◼ ► on a new phone the swipey stuff i don't want any of the sliding stuff i've turned all of that off yeah
00:40:22 ◼ ► but i love having a button where i can launch the camera before i've even got the camera in front of
00:40:28 ◼ ► me okay cool i do that all the time too yeah yeah okay great great great phew phew i thought that you
00:40:33 ◼ ► both said you wanted it to go away but i think no no no i love the button to launch the camera i just
00:40:39 ◼ ► want the whole stack of swiping and zooming and pinching whatever yeah just get rid of all of
00:40:46 ◼ ► that that's not needed it's way over complicated but just give me keep the button or like a pressure
00:40:50 ◼ ► sensitive area or something like i i don't want them to get rid of that because i i really love that it's
00:40:56 ◼ ► it's it's it it's just so helpful that like the camera you're already the camera ui is already in
00:41:02 ◼ ► front of your face by the time you get your phone in front of your face like i i think that's really
00:41:05 ◼ ► nice yep is it my pick now yes okay cool apple opens up to more third-party ai providers to be
00:41:15 ◼ ► integrated into the system yeah yeah so it seems like this is going to happen and this is the one that i've
00:41:20 ◼ ► been thinking about the most personally okay what i struggle to understand so far is so apple is going
00:41:28 ◼ ► to have the new series and a part of it a list is going to be based on google technology
00:41:37 ◼ ► what exactly is this ai extension framework like at any point you can enable say a cloud extension
00:41:47 ◼ ► and instead of google siri responding to you it's cloud but is it as smart as the fancy siri
00:41:57 ◼ ► or is it just for like web search or something else i think maybe yes or and or no to like i have no
00:42:05 ◼ ► idea right because it's like will it even be worth it is it better if you have an account with these
00:42:12 ◼ ► companies so you actually get a better model or are you just always going to be using a bad like a
00:42:18 ◼ ► cheaper model in the iphone i and also it's like is it going to be in chat or is it just going to be in
00:42:25 ◼ ► in specific areas exactly exactly like exactly i have no idea but all i know all i feel to be true
00:42:32 ◼ ► is that open ai is not going to be the only app that you can sign up to in seconds yeah yeah no way
00:42:41 ◼ ► you know no way yeah but i would expect they're like all the serious fancy functionalities that we're
00:42:48 ◼ ► going to talk about later those will probably be exclusive to the to the to siri yes the vanilla
00:42:55 ◼ ► white label gemini there will be specific places where you can use third parties i think
00:43:01 ◼ ► i don't think you're going to be able to like so like oh my what i want my personal context to
00:43:06 ◼ ► be generated by chachi pt now that's all going to be apple's model but there will be like
00:43:11 ◼ ► different parts of the experience like maybe even writing tools i don't know like maybe you
00:43:16 ◼ ► could have a different model in there or if you say it could be web search or just image
00:43:21 ◼ ► generation i i think you're right i think it's going to be limited like now you can have multiple
00:43:26 ◼ ► extensions yeah and those and those extensions can help you for this like um siloed experiences of
00:43:32 ◼ ► apple intelligence like writing tools image playground and maybe web search at world knowledge right
00:43:38 ◼ ► that's what they said about chat gpt i think they'll keep using that phrase yes that's what it is so if
00:43:48 ◼ ► there's a very specific reason people like to use grok to generate their images i would bet you money
00:43:53 ◼ ► that grok is not on this list i mean i will bet i will bet you money that grok is on this list
00:44:08 ◼ ► steven are you saying all or just images i'm saying grok wouldn't be nowhere okay cool so how much
00:44:14 ◼ ► money is going down on this bet five dollars five five five american dollars yep five american dollars
00:44:20 ◼ ► yeah oh it's being written in a document stephen said rock but will not be shown they recently gave
00:44:31 ◼ ► grok the carplay entitlement even that's a really good point so the five dollar bet in system extension can you
00:44:43 ◼ ► imagine can you imagine can you imagine how much elon musk will be upset if everybody joins the ai
00:44:50 ◼ ► extension announcement except for grok can you imagine like i mean there's basically a lawsuit filed on the
00:44:57 ◼ ► tuesday yeah essentially yeah yeah we'll see we'll see we have i think it hurts me but i'm leaning more
00:45:06 ◼ ► towards federico yeah yeah i mean for that reason it hurts me too but if if it's included you know john
00:45:13 ◼ ► turnis is a failure of ceo no i'm just kidding he isn't ceo yet uh it's uh yeah tim cook's like
00:45:21 ◼ ► tim cook's party gift it's his pardon it's his it's his ceo pardon is to put grok into the into the
00:45:36 ◼ ► i'm next round two yes we see a little finder in some capacity i think we will i think you're
00:45:43 ◼ ► right i think they saw that little guy's popular it'll be somewhere yeah videos videos could be what
00:45:53 ◼ ► i what i this is ungraded but for for extra just spice uh i would love to see a 3d printed model on a
00:46:01 ◼ ► table or a desk in a session i was gonna say i was gonna say remember when we went to visit the google
00:46:06 ◼ ► campus many years ago and there were all the androids in the park uh-huh we should you want a big one i
00:46:13 ◼ ► want to see a bit i want to see a big big big finder guy like a bunch a bunch of them i want them i want a
00:46:20 ◼ ► huge inflatable finder mascot flying over the top of apple park or i will not be satisfied that's what i want
00:46:28 ◼ ► okay yeah well we'll see but i think it's it's it's too much of a cultural reference now maybe not
00:46:35 ◼ ► the keynote but i think definitely in the session video i mean i think it will happen because apple
00:46:41 ◼ ► made it this is different if this was the thing that took off in the community that basic apple guy made
00:46:47 ◼ ► right it's not the apple made this so and has continued to appear so i i absolutely think that
00:46:54 ◼ ► this the finder mascot will appear yeah okay that's my round two pick i would also like to make another
00:47:02 ◼ ► suggestion for the for raw changes okay okay i know but we're into riskies now and this is particularly
00:47:08 ◼ ► for riskies and i don't think either of you are going to like this but i'm just going to say it
00:47:14 ◼ ► i don't think we should pre-approve them anymore i think we should come prepared to the show to have
00:47:19 ◼ ► to debate with each other oh but this but then you have to like come up with a backup on the fly
00:47:30 ◼ ► because i'm having to do that anyway because they're being knocked down the reason i mention
00:47:36 ◼ ► this is there is a great conversation that happens between just the three of us we are content creators
00:47:43 ◼ ► this is content yeah now it's more work for us yes but it's ultimately the same amount of work we're
00:47:50 ◼ ► doing but just in a quicker period of time and so it's like we're come you know maybe we have like
00:47:55 ◼ ► i will maybe come to the show with two half-formed ideas and then i have to kind of work out what my
00:48:02 ◼ ► risky picks gonna be based on that it's a suggestion you can sit on it and think about it but i think
00:48:12 ◼ ► these these are i think more interesting if they're surprises to all of us and we already all know each
00:48:20 ◼ ► others before we've even started the show so and i think you're swaying me you're swaying me i think
00:48:26 ◼ ► we used to argue so much more than we do now and which is why we had to do this is because it was like
00:48:33 ◼ ► bloodlust trying to come up with these and i think now we're we're much more chill about it than we used
00:48:40 ◼ ► to be yeah no i don't like being chill okay yes i love i love the chaos do you want to put you want to put
00:48:47 ◼ ► forth a motion the motion that i am putting forth is that for the september keynote and onwards
00:48:53 ◼ ► we do not pre-approve or pre-share the risky picks of each other yes okay and here's here's an
00:49:00 ◼ ► here's an amendment right now this we might not need to worry about this for a while we can think about it
00:49:07 ◼ ► if you can't come up with one the the other hosts do it for you oh my god okay we'll think about that
00:49:16 ◼ ► let's think about that yeah yeah you get what i'm saying though of like oh but i can't think of a third
00:49:20 ◼ ► point based on the fact that you won't allow it it's like well then you lose in forfeit i don't know
00:49:26 ◼ ► like like but yes we can see how it goes before we have to consider something like that maybe
00:49:32 ◼ ► wow man this is a big change but i like it it's time to you know we gotta spice it up we're at
00:49:38 ◼ ► that part in our relationship you gotta you gotta keep it spicy you know yeah yeah yeah partial points
00:49:45 ◼ ► and no pre-approval that's what i'm down for that's where i'm playing you reach a point where you you gotta
00:49:51 ◼ ► price things up i want to take it back to when we were younger yeah you know this is this is our
00:49:56 ◼ ► midlife crisis okay sure we'll go with that we'll go with that i'm happy with this show's midlife crisis
00:50:02 ◼ ► being episode 606 yeah yeah you know 12 more years of this uh okay that's really good uh all right
00:50:12 ◼ ► good interjection um thank you so federico take us through your pick okay i really struggled this year
00:50:19 ◼ ► um i shared the previous one with you guys i didn't really like it so i came up with something
00:50:24 ◼ ► else i'm really happy for you because i didn't like your first one either like in like i just
00:50:29 ◼ ► i was worried about it honestly for you but next time if you brought to the show we could do that in
00:50:34 ◼ ► front of everybody to mike's point yeah okay the new series will be partially based on google technology
00:50:43 ◼ ► with condition number one a model based on the gemini 3.5 flash family condition two a translation
00:50:55 ◼ ► layer mcp or json for app intents when the google model is involved and number three no thinking selector in
00:51:08 ◼ ► the ui for users so my read on your pick here point three easy we can see that points one and two no but
00:51:18 ◼ ► like we we will be able to see whether there is a button called thing sure right like you can just
00:51:24 ◼ ► see if that exists yes points one and two that's implementation details that they need to share
00:51:31 ◼ ► right yes yeah you got five days to find out in a way that is publicly verifiable yeah yeah i okay so
00:51:40 ◼ ► let me make my case for this please do i feel like in this day and age it is important for any ai lab
00:51:48 ◼ ► to share what model is being used behind the scenes when you're dealing with customer data i think apple
00:52:07 ◼ ► we train the model we fine-tune the model that's based on this this is the technology that's going
00:52:15 ◼ ► to have some kind of access in some kind of private cloud compute sandbox to your app's data
00:52:24 ◼ ► also i will bet you another five dollars and willing to go broke for these guys okay another five
00:52:32 ◼ ► dollars that with good enough prompting the model will just tell you what it's based on it is
00:52:40 ◼ ► very hard to completely wipe out of a model its origins so i am willing to spend another five
00:52:51 ◼ ► five dollars that this time will be given to michael well you're just gonna give me the money yeah i'll
00:52:57 ◼ ► just give you five dollars i'll give you five dollars if there is absolutely well first of all no mention
00:53:07 ◼ ► of the model use and absolutely no way that the people who installed the beta from monday to friday
00:53:16 ◼ ► that they will not find out okay so why gemini 3.5 flash um honestly the biggest risk actually for me
00:53:25 ◼ ► is that 3.5 flash is six times more expensive than 3.1 flashlight uh both models both uh 3.1
00:53:34 ◼ ► flashlight and 3.5 flash have the same knowledge um cutoff date of january 2025 that's not great but it's
00:53:42 ◼ ► it's something you can compensate for with web search obviously um 3.5 flash though is um
00:53:49 ◼ ► the much more capable and fast model that is leaks beyond 3.1 flashlight when it comes to um
00:54:01 ◼ ► quote-unquote agentic behavior so the moment the one that they just showed off yes okay yes yes it's the
00:54:09 ◼ ► one that just showed off it's a a hybrid model in the sense that it can reason behind the scenes it
00:54:17 ◼ ► supports multiple reasoning levels those can be adjusted on the fly by the uh application or system
00:54:26 ◼ ► feature driving uh the call to the google api uh depending on the user question depending on the
00:54:32 ◼ ► the complexity of the task you can ask gemini 3 point gemini 3.5 flash not to think at all or to think
00:54:39 ◼ ► just a little bit or to think higher but it's still much much much faster than a gemini 3 pro uh
00:54:46 ◼ ► family model um and the 3.5 flash is just better at calling tools and uh orchestrating complex requests
00:54:55 ◼ ► than 3.1 flashlight could it even be possible that 3.5 flash exists because apple's involved like like
00:55:03 ◼ ► these are the maybe some of the things that google had to do to make it work good for the iphone or
00:55:07 ◼ ► no you don't think no i don't i don't think it's related i think apple was obviously in talking to
00:55:12 ◼ ► google uh you know obviously this deal was announced what in february so four months ago so let's assume
00:55:18 ◼ ► that it was already in the making for three months i'm being conservative conservative like november to
00:55:23 ◼ ► december and obviously that model was already being trained so i would i would expect that when apple
00:55:30 ◼ ► approached google that model was doing maybe its final training run for an announcement at google io in
00:55:36 ◼ ► may right uh these training runs they don't happen in like 24 hours or a week they take months um so
00:55:43 ◼ ► yeah i would expect that when apple approached google google said well okay let's got a deal where we will
00:55:48 ◼ ► not give you you know for a billion dollars we will not give you access to a gemini 3 pro model also
00:55:53 ◼ ► because like you don't want people to sit around and wait for two minutes when siri is thinking if
00:55:58 ◼ ► it's based on gemini 3 pro you want something speedy but still intelligent right and that's 3.5 flash
00:56:03 ◼ ► i wonder as well you know like saying about if if they'll say anywhere what it's based on i think
00:56:10 ◼ ► it kind of depends on how confident they feel just in general that maybe they feel like they
00:56:18 ◼ ► will get a boost if they say what it is yeah or they feel like still we don't need to say nothing
00:56:24 ◼ ► and they don't because anything because if you say it's based on the latest uh 3.5 flash model from
00:56:29 ◼ ► google that's i i think most people actually don't hate 3.5 flash well and that's just there's just the
00:56:36 ◼ ► right places to talk about that right yeah you can say interviews or whatever i could imagine maybe
00:56:42 ◼ ► them talking about it yeah i don't know and especially now that brings me to my second point
00:56:48 ◼ ► so a translation layer mcp or json for app intents when the google model is involved all right so we are
00:56:56 ◼ ► expecting right this new siri to take a hybrid approach where there's going to be some kind
00:57:03 ◼ ► of on-device model that you download on your phone on your ipad that answers some basic questions right
00:57:13 ◼ ► if you'd say well turn on my office light that probably doesn't need to go off to the google cloud
00:57:18 ◼ ► and come back and say ah yes i'm supposed to turn off this light in this room um we're expecting
00:57:24 ◼ ► there to be a local model that kind of orchestrates and analyzes the the initial user request and then
00:57:32 ◼ ► makes a decision do i need more capacity for this question or can i just get it done on device with
00:57:39 ◼ ► the tools that i have so let's say that you are mike hurley and you're saying um siri i uh yes you are
00:57:46 ◼ ► um siri i want you to uh take my schedule for the upcoming week and check if i have uh tasks in todoist
00:57:58 ◼ ► that match the calendar events that i have uh on tuesday and thursday something like that now that
00:58:04 ◼ ► is a complex query and if i were to bet the local model would probably fail at uh it would understand
00:58:11 ◼ ► it would understand all of it but it would probably fail at orchestrating that request um that model on
00:58:19 ◼ ► device is going to be a small model where we would expect right now i believe it's a what a three billion
00:58:24 ◼ ► model with the four thousand token context window even just the the prompt and the apps that would be
00:58:32 ◼ ► involved in that request they would probably exceed the the context window of the local model
00:58:38 ◼ ► so the local model will say all right i need to go to the cloud um now i don't know if you recall
00:58:53 ◼ ► apple intelligence trained on understanding app intents and swift would first of all build an index
00:59:03 ◼ ► of all the app intents on your device all the tools available to them for data retrieval and performing
00:59:10 ◼ ► actions and it was just in theory nobody ever saw it in action obviously so in their mind and in their
00:59:18 ◼ ► concept videos that model knew how to parse the app intents swift syntax right and perform actions now
00:59:31 ◼ ► now that obviously never shipped fast forward to 2026 right now so if my assumption is correct that
00:59:40 ◼ ► there's going to be a on-device model saying okay this is a complex question tons of context is required
00:59:47 ◼ ► here i need to go off to the cloud how do you pass that data to the cloud mike asked about his calendar
00:59:55 ◼ ► schedule his to-do list so you need to retrieve at the very least app intents for calendar or maybe
01:00:02 ◼ ► fantastical and to-do list how do you pass that app intents data so those are tool definitions schemas
01:00:11 ◼ ► like all those things how do they actually go off to the google cloud now if you're google this is not
01:00:20 ◼ ► a problem for you because you uh when you're on android gemini has been trained to understand two
01:00:26 ◼ ► things mcp and json gemini is pretty good actually at uh understanding a json schema input and spitting
01:00:36 ◼ ► back additional json and obviously in theory uh gemini is also capable of understanding mcp
01:00:43 ◼ ► so the tool calling syntax for mcp tool definition tool descriptions what's data retrieval what's performing
01:00:49 ◼ ► an action all those things now i seriously doubt that apple approached google right in december
01:01:08 ◼ ► that we are going to train from scratch to understand the natively app intents and swift code for app intents
01:01:30 ◼ ► so my prediction is that the simplest solution here is to keep all the work that developers have done for
01:01:40 ◼ ► the past two years to create app intents and get ready for apple intelligence it would be a really bad
01:01:47 ◼ ► look for apple to go on stage and say ah jk uh never mind all that work that you did on app intents and
01:01:55 ◼ ► now you gotta redo it all for mcp also because you're still going to be using app intents
01:02:01 ◼ ► on apple platforms app intents are behind shortcuts they're behind widgets they're behind controls and
01:02:07 ◼ ► control center um the more elegant solution if you are on a schedule right in six months would be
01:02:17 ◼ ► to say okay how do we build the equivalent of a rosetta feature where we run this on device
01:02:26 ◼ ► and we automatically translate validate app intents code to something that gemini understands in the
01:02:34 ◼ ► cloud so gemini knows how to deal with that comes back we revalidate on the fly that mcp or json
01:02:43 ◼ ► syntax and we re-translate it back to app intents so that you can perform the action that you asked for
01:02:50 ◼ ► i think if you are again if you're crunching to get this done in time for wwdc you probably don't
01:02:58 ◼ ► want to train a model from scratch in four months five months to understand app intents you want to take
01:03:04 ◼ ► an established solution for tool calling which would be mcp or json input and have a little translator on
01:03:12 ◼ ► device that acts as the interpreter in between you the user and your local device and the google cloud
01:03:26 ◼ ► maybe eric you actually went to google and said you know we you gotta give us all the tools to do a
01:03:33 ◼ ► complete training run for gemini to understand app intents natively we don't want to have a rosetta
01:03:39 ◼ ► translator on device maybe that's the case if they actually pull pull that off i'm gonna give five
01:03:45 ◼ ► dollars to mike otherwise i think this is the more elegant approach hopefully my explanation makes
01:03:51 ◼ ► sense mostly mostly mostly okay but i get it that's good good enough okay are we good now for your pick i'm
01:04:00 ◼ ► good all right my risky pick is that apple unveils a standalone siri app it will be available in the app
01:04:09 ◼ ► store it includes an integrated storefront for downloading chatbot style ai apps and in this
01:04:18 ◼ ► store there will be ai extensions for non chatbot style apps these will let developers give access to
01:04:25 ◼ ► their data to siri to use for personal context this will apple this will be apple essentially offering mcp
01:04:32 ◼ ► support into the siri system so i want to explain a little bit more about all of mine so siri app in
01:04:38 ◼ ► the app store uh for me the thinking is they might want to update this experience and its features more
01:04:46 ◼ ► frequently than an operating system update i don't know about this but i think i can see the scenario for
01:04:53 ◼ ► um that there may be a desire to want to update it in the same way that a lot of apple system
01:04:58 ◼ ► apps are available in the app store and also if there's going to be an app on the phone sometimes
01:05:03 ◼ ► you can delete those apps right and then they have to be in the app store anyway so maybe there's a benefit
01:05:08 ◼ ► from that it includes an integrated storefront for downloading chatbot style ai apps so i think that
01:05:15 ◼ ► there will be some kind of ui for grabbing chat gpt claude especially if they're going to integrate
01:05:24 ◼ ► into the system that there might just be like a a little thing that you can pull up inside of this new
01:05:29 ◼ ► this new app this new assistant app uh that lets you download the apps from the from third parties right
01:05:35 ◼ ► and then integrate them in some way and that would also allow you to be able to say plug them into image
01:05:40 ◼ ► playgrounds or whatever you could do it all inside of this app and then the third part is
01:05:44 ◼ ► is so i was thinking about this right this is actually informed by a conversation that i had
01:05:51 ◼ ► on mac power users that's coming out this weekend i was on my power users when we were talking about
01:05:55 ◼ ► this so if you listen to the show and listen to mac power users you'll hear me going in reverse in my
01:06:00 ◼ ► thinking um essentially what i'm wondering about is let's say you your personal context will benefit a lot
01:06:10 ◼ ► from having your email right and let's say that you're a gmail user you don't use the apple mail app
01:06:17 ◼ ► you don't sign into the apple mail app at all how is apple going to get the information that's inside of
01:06:24 ◼ ► your gmail app now of course they could use app intense and i'm sure apple's going to really try and
01:06:29 ◼ ► get people to use app intense it's going to be their preferred way of doing it but we have seen in the past
01:06:35 ◼ ► few years apple's inability to get developers to do what they want all right it's it's becoming harder
01:06:41 ◼ ► and harder and now we've got this new frontier here right where it's like you know you could maybe not
01:06:46 ◼ ► google but let's just use google for example being like we're not going to build your system we have
01:06:51 ◼ ► our own system and it's we've built it on an open platform we have an mcp server for gmail so if you
01:06:56 ◼ ► desperately want to use to have gmail in your personal context go ahead and integrate with mcp
01:07:02 ◼ ► like i can imagine this as a conversation we're not going to build app intense for you we've already built
01:07:06 ◼ ► something you use that so what i'm wondering is is apple going to also have some kind of way of
01:07:14 ◼ ► integrating mcp servers into the assistant if they do this i can't imagine apple saying integrate this mcp
01:07:24 ◼ ► so like i just don't i don't imagine them using those words in the operating system but i could imagine
01:07:32 ◼ ► hey grab this extension it's not for an ai app but it is for an app that supports mcp so like
01:07:40 ◼ ► you could have a notion extension in there you could have a gmail extension you could have a fastmail
01:07:44 ◼ ► extension and they're just wrappers around mcp servers that just make it really easy to plug
01:07:50 ◼ ► that into siri that is my that's what i'm getting at here so there you go that's my risky pick
01:07:57 ◼ ► what i kind of like about this is that if you get this pick right i also get it right yes but if you
01:08:04 ◼ ► get yours right i don't necessarily yeah am i right yeah so but i this this is just based on like the
01:08:11 ◼ ► the question of are they going to be able to get people to do what they want them to do because it's
01:08:17 ◼ ► going to be very important that they do and i think the easiest way is for them just to meet people in the middle
01:08:26 ◼ ► considering there is already this platform that is being created and people are supporting that
01:08:33 ◼ ► enable ai apps to talk to each other why would you not just build support for that into the operating
01:08:38 ◼ ► system you maybe you can give people more and you can try and incentivize say like if you use app intents
01:08:44 ◼ ► or use whatever other framework they might create it will be even better for your customers but at a base
01:08:49 ◼ ► level integrate with mcp and then you can have your assistant doing things which is very important that
01:08:56 ◼ ► they do that i think so we'll see and i think it's important to have a place where users can see what
01:09:02 ◼ ► they have hooked up to apple intelligence and putting it in the siri app somewhere i could see it making
01:09:10 ◼ ► sense uh the problem with some of the stuff is the way it is now and some of these other like like
01:09:16 ◼ ► doing connectors and claw or putting things with chat gpt like it's it can be confusing to people like
01:09:23 ◼ ► how do i tell it about this tool or how do i load this thing in and apple could obscure a lot of that
01:09:29 ◼ ► complexity by having something developers can use source take a storefront in it and then you can see
01:09:35 ◼ ► like okay i use mime stream and mime stream is not in here so it doesn't know about what's going on
01:09:40 ◼ ► inside of mime stream i think that level of clarity is important all right my pick apple announces a paid
01:09:49 ◼ ► ai service one it removes caps on siri chatbot usage number two it unlocks better image generation and image
01:09:58 ◼ ► playgrounds and three it is not part of any existing apple bundle this is a very good risky pick wow
01:10:06 ◼ ► apple may continue to do this for free but no one else does even google charges you for uh upper levels
01:10:15 ◼ ► of access to gemini right i maybe they'll do this for free for the first year maybe it's like satellite
01:10:21 ◼ ► on the iphone where they just like keep kicking the can down the road this is much more expensive than
01:10:25 ◼ ► satellite but it is much more expensive and i suspect that if they're ever going to do this
01:10:31 ◼ ► like you just do it now like you're just like hey here's all the stuff it's 10 bucks a month or
01:10:35 ◼ ► whatever and not not you know or maybe you get 90 days free with an iphone i don't know but i will
01:10:40 ◼ ► think i the pick says there will be some paid component to these new features and what a great excuse for a
01:10:47 ◼ ► new service for the services revenue that's right they love a service this is like a legit service that
01:10:53 ◼ ► they could offer that just puts them on parity with everyone else siri plus yep i hate that name
01:11:00 ◼ ► uh it would annoy me i would be very annoyed if if part three of this pick is correct but i don't that
01:11:07 ◼ ► i don't get this because i play for apple premiere or whatever yeah apple one it's called apple one
01:11:12 ◼ ► something i don't know man maybe maybe it's discounted in the apple one bundle like you know
01:11:19 ◼ ► news and fitness plus and stuff are because they'd be like apple one but not that one maybe
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01:12:56 ◼ ► the flexes is a game held after each edition of the rookies it consists of a series of additional
01:13:03 ◼ ► picks in relation to the upcoming apple event or year scoring is completed separately from the main
01:13:09 ◼ ► game but like the rookies the order of picks is set by the results of the previous game
01:13:22 ◼ ► the host must make a minimum of five flexi picks each correct pick is awarded one point
01:13:32 ◼ ► wrong picks do not remove any points and no partial points may be awarded the winner is determined by
01:13:38 ◼ ► comparing the percentage of correct flexes made by each host and the winner can use their chosen title as
01:13:45 ◼ ► as long as they are the winner federico shall be named prince flexi and is known as king flexi when
01:13:50 ◼ ► having won both the keynote and annual games mike has chosen duke of flexington and the name archduke
01:13:56 ◼ ► flexington i've chosen attorney general flexi and the title secretary of the flex when necessary
01:14:03 ◼ ► loser of the flexis must compensate the winner of the flexis by donating to a charity of the winner's choice
01:14:09 ◼ ► the amount of donation is 25 per wrong flexi made by the loser and the money must be donated on air
01:14:16 ◼ ► if someone holds all four titles well then they're allowed to choose their own nickname because they
01:14:22 ◼ ► have won the podcast basically you may be seated okay i won last time so i get to go first
01:14:33 ◼ ► ipad os 27 has no major new features unique from ios you don't think it might get some spotlight
01:14:42 ◼ ► changes i don't wow okay well not unique not different from ios i mean if if they merged spotlight and
01:14:53 ◼ ► siri and ios i expect ipad os to get that but i don't think anything beyond what the phone gets i mean
01:14:59 ◼ ► i could i could imagine ipad os getting a clipboard man i know jason wants that but that's ridiculous
01:15:04 ◼ ► i'm not gonna do that come on okie dokie come on can't do real clipboard management on an ipad mike
01:15:09 ◼ ► i mean no you can't but you could you should but i don't uh i don't think they're gonna separate it
01:15:15 ◼ ► from the phone this year i think it's gonna be a very quiet year for the ipad so do you think ipad os
01:15:20 ◼ ► even gets its own kind of like now let's go to ipad os i heard you say that on upgrade i think i think
01:15:35 ◼ ► a way to show something something else but it's also coming to ios right yeah so they give it its
01:15:40 ◼ ► time so it looks important but really it's not getting anything that's my guess that's interesting
01:15:48 ◼ ► mac os 27 has some updated design elements yeah please some some some i was uh i was doing
01:15:56 ◼ ► something in finder the other day and it was like i use column view because i'm a gentleman and like
01:16:02 ◼ ► the contents of the column way to the left like show up between the the edge of the window and the
01:16:07 ◼ ► sidebars like what are we doing is this so stupid something give me something apple number three tv os is
01:16:16 ◼ ► mentioned okay they remember it exists number four ios 27 has new lock screen customizations
01:16:25 ◼ ► okay you didn't sound sure about your own pick well i had a typo i was fixing the typo as i was okay
01:16:32 ◼ ► talking as a new voice is changing what does that mean i think they'll expect i mean what i would so
01:16:40 ◼ ► some things i would like to see um you can only use the tall font with one typeface what make that
01:16:47 ◼ ► available to all the others um i would like more flexibility around where and how i can lay out
01:16:55 ◼ ► widgets on the lock screen like why can't i put them down the side or have a little stack somewhere like
01:17:06 ◼ ► hey my wallpaper is not big enough expand it you know they do that now a little bit but they just
01:17:11 ◼ ► like blur the snot out of it it's like well that's not really what i asked like um so maybe there's
01:17:15 ◼ ► something with wallpaper extension ai imagery nonsense on the wallpaper siri and spotlight merge at least in
01:17:24 ◼ ► ios and ipad os yeah apple does not announce any video generation ai tools i don't think they want to
01:17:34 ◼ ► touch it we talked about that recently on the show why would you go there number seven tim cook has a
01:17:41 ◼ ► moment of reflection like he just stops in a minute and he's like he just freezes he says something about
01:17:49 ◼ ► his time at apple is this is i mean assumedly this is his last public event uh he'll be on i think at
01:17:55 ◼ ► least one more quarterly call but this is kind of this is the last keynote this is the last keynote
01:18:00 ◼ ► they're not going to do a august keynote this is the last this is the last one i don't know to what
01:18:05 ◼ ► extent it's going to be i don't know if he's going to like hand the torch off to turnus or i don't
01:18:10 ◼ ► know but i think there'll be something where he is reflective on the past in some way you might get
01:18:15 ◼ ► more detail in that in a minute oh and some of your picks i had i see this thing i had a whole risky
01:18:21 ◼ ► pick and all those things they just went into my flexis so yeah you'll hear about it yeah all right
01:18:27 ◼ ► federico okay number one there there will be an ios feature to split bills with friends and family
01:18:34 ◼ ► this was uh rumored by german recently uh like apple cash only in america because it's the only
01:18:40 ◼ ► place that apple believes money is exchanged definitely would be apple only or uh us only
01:18:45 ◼ ► yeah number two john turnus is seen on stage at apple park yeah okay so so if people don't know
01:18:54 ◼ ► they hit play on the quick time video right the streams and if you're in person you see it
01:19:00 ◼ ► just like a video but before the video plays tim cook and craig or you know the iphone it's it's
01:19:07 ◼ ► tim they come out and say something to the crowd and then they hit play and that's not stream now
01:19:12 ◼ ► it's reported on because there's you know a bunch of people there that have mastodon accounts but it's
01:19:17 ◼ ► not part of the video so that's where this could happen is it could be in person but not on the stream
01:19:21 ◼ ► i think this year they run a risk with having either tim or turnus appear that there might be applause for
01:19:36 ◼ ► we'll see it's a one-time thing we'll find out i think it's okay can you imagine if they want to brag
01:19:43 ◼ ► and this time the apple intelligence demo is done live on stage i don't know if it would be bragging it
01:19:52 ◼ ► it would definitely be like like they want to they want to show you i wish they would because that would
01:20:00 ◼ ► be that would be wild uh number three the new siri replaces spotlight for command space activation on
01:20:15 ◼ ► number four tab bars are subtly redesigned on ios once again i think they're changing they're making
01:20:24 ◼ ► changes to the liquid glass top bars again in 27 yeah we talked about this a little bit they've done some
01:20:31 ◼ ► of it already right like they basically have abandoned the thing where the tab bar gets sucked
01:20:37 ◼ ► to the left into the first item and it comes back out that's basically gone out of ios 26
01:20:43 ◼ ► you know well i guess they're going to combine search they're going to add that back into the end
01:20:48 ◼ ► uh something yeah number five the new siri is based on a dual llm architecture on device and in
01:20:58 ◼ ► the cloud yeah this is what i said before number six there is a feature to create wallpapers with ai
01:21:06 ◼ ► they'll they will do some of that just uh image playground and making my lock screen yeah i think
01:21:14 ◼ ► so too with grok steve no just naked pictures of me as your as your lock screen yeah well i have those
01:21:23 ◼ ► already wow wow i didn't use grok all right mine is one somehow whereas announced okay i don't actually
01:21:34 ◼ ► believe this to be true but i just wanted to be completely in objection to mess with steven yeah
01:21:39 ◼ ► two google anthropic and open ai will all be said aloud in the keynote okay yes yeah i i think they
01:21:47 ◼ ► have to i think they did a question we're relying on question mike yeah if they mentioned claude but
01:21:54 ◼ ► not anthropic does that i don't i don't know if they i think they would say the whole thing
01:22:00 ◼ ► like i think they would say okay because they said like open ai a lot when no one really like people
01:22:08 ◼ ► know chat gpt more than they know open ai i feel like hmm whoa whoa what is happening steven don't
01:22:15 ◼ ► go and start messing with my flexes ah delete delete this is not how it works in the flexes thank you
01:22:21 ◼ ► very much wow bye i was just clarifying that you was not going to be the they're not going to be the
01:22:24 ◼ ► brand just the company is that what you're saying are you saying i'm saying i've said what i said what i
01:22:30 ◼ ► said is google anthropic and open ai will all be said aloud in the keynote all right i said what i
01:22:34 ◼ ► said three a formula one car appears at some point in the keynote definitely yeah they did it when they
01:22:42 ◼ ► only had the movie now they got the whole sport in america we're gonna see some formula one cars do you
01:22:47 ◼ ► think it could be the skit like at the opening i don't think it'll be the skit because they did that
01:22:51 ◼ ► already i want to see an f1 car at apple park they did that already too they've done all these things
01:23:05 ◼ ► yeah are they because they did do it last year yeah who cares i want to see it now okay i mean you
01:23:13 ◼ ► had the opportunity to see it last year where was it outside the state trust there they had the f1
01:23:20 ◼ ► car from the movie what are you saying i was at the steve jobs theater there was no f1 car
01:23:25 ◼ ► federica okay i will find pictures for you once i'm done reading my flexes i was literally at the
01:23:41 ◼ ► okay now it's just all the skits they had it because i saw videos about it and people were taking
01:23:49 ◼ ► pictures of it and saying like this is how they shot the movie there's the wing mirrors is this
01:23:53 ◼ ► when i was doing a briefing i mean maybe maybe all right are you thinking about in march when they
01:23:59 ◼ ► had a promo because there's a link to that a nine to five nope okay so i've got a picture for you
01:24:05 ◼ ► from the 20th of june 2025 from technical guruji who was at apple park i'm gonna put this in the
01:24:11 ◼ ► discord for you it's a facebook post so have fun with that um this was and i'm gonna send it to you
01:24:16 ◼ ► both oh you got both looking into discord so there you go that's absolutely no idea where this was
01:24:33 ◼ ► some people only i guess i don't know i saw mkb hd with it like yeah but he's he's cooler than we are
01:24:39 ◼ ► yeah anyway sorry mike please continue uh yeah i need to add this to the show notes steven can you
01:24:47 ◼ ► add that to the show notes i got you thank you all right uh tim says that one of the best parts of
01:24:54 ◼ ► his job has been to enable so many developers on the app store sure and then a bunch of people vomit
01:24:59 ◼ ► that's not part of my pick but that's what will happen yeah five tim hands over to john turnus
01:25:05 ◼ ► and they close the event together oh okay holding hands i mean maybe here's my actual thing that i
01:25:14 ◼ ► think will not not this is what i think will happen but this is how i've imagined finger touch okay well
01:25:19 ◼ ► yes maybe i've imagined it in my mind right that they're talking and then the camera pulls back
01:25:25 ◼ ► and then it like starts to like drone style and they're both waving at it as it's going into the
01:25:30 ◼ ► sky i don't know why this is how i am that i'm not saying this is what i think is gonna happen yeah
01:25:35 ◼ ► that's hot this is what i this is in my mind's eye what i see is the closing i would kind of watch
01:25:41 ◼ ► a movie version of that with ryan gosling well you might be able to watch a movie version of that
01:25:46 ◼ ► on monday because it will happen the reason i spent so much time thinking about this is these
01:25:50 ◼ ► were two parts of my original risky pick which i was told was not risky enough even though i feel
01:25:56 ◼ ► like i was quite specific but nevertheless six final flexi because steven stole one of my flexis
01:26:02 ◼ ► uh apple makes a big focus uh with on-device ai they will just talk about that a lot yeah yeah
01:26:11 ◼ ► steven didn't steal one of my flexis as much as he just got to have it because he was first
01:26:15 ◼ ► yeah but i will say that he stole it yeah you had put little finder in there and i made it a pick so
01:26:22 ◼ ► yeah well well this is a lot of stuff a lot of stuff to consider yes okay feel good i feel good so we will
01:26:31 ◼ ► be recording like we said on friday next week so if it's thursday evening and you're freaking out that
01:26:37 ◼ ► our show's not out yet just wait it'll be out friday and uh because we're traveling well i think we're
01:26:43 ◼ ► all traveling on thursday so uh friday it is um we will be we all see each other next week which is very
01:26:50 ◼ ► exciting so we will uh do a celebratory high five in person when's the last time all three of us were
01:26:58 ◼ ► together wwdc 2023 23 23 okay i can't think of any of the time vision pro wwdc yeah yeah well my last
01:27:07 ◼ ► wwdc yeah i saw you last year mike you came to my house yeah yes um sold a few objects from your
01:27:16 ◼ ► house if you notice that's that's totally fine i've been wondering how that stuff went okay sure all right
01:27:20 ◼ ► oh boy oh well if you want to uh follow along with us next week at wwdc we are going to be just doing
01:27:29 ◼ ► stuff all over the place uh federico will be and his team will be over at macstories.net you can follow
01:27:35 ◼ ► along there it's uh it's a it's a it's just a little inside baseball it's a weird week to be in apple press
01:27:44 ◼ ► when there's an event especially if you're there because it's great to be there and like be on the ground
01:27:48 ◼ ► around and see people but it's also very hard to get actual work done but yep federico has john for
01:27:53 ◼ ► that you know no no we have devon and jonathan devon jonathan they'll be holding down the fort he did
01:27:58 ◼ ► say john you know john nothing he was right he just didn't get the opportunity to finish just as busy
01:28:05 ◼ ► as me uh thankfully so we'll be running around apple park for two days that's awesome yeah yeah you can
01:28:13 ◼ ► find mike on a bunch of shows across relay y'all are gonna be y'all gonna be doing upgrade monday at some
01:28:18 ◼ ► point in person yeah we're recording it um at apple park awesome uh you can so look for mike all over
01:28:25 ◼ ► the place next week and you can find my writing at 512 pixels.net and because i'm going wc without it
01:28:30 ◼ ► without an invite apple i got lots of time to write so check out what i'm writing i guess look out for
01:28:36 ◼ ► some blogs i'm not mad i'm just hurt are you not mad because it sounded like you were mad when you when
01:28:43 ◼ ► he's accusatorily said apple hmm do you guys are going to be there yeah am i not good enough i don't
01:28:49 ◼ ► think this is the show that helps though if i'm being honest i quit the show that helps
01:28:54 ◼ ► yeah yeah yeah i think you kept the show that hurts maybe when i let those guys we did connected once in
01:29:05 ◼ ► person i think at apple park yeah but i do they didn't i don't they didn't like it no no they
01:29:11 ◼ ► don't think they liked it and i don't think any of us were invited to wwc because of connected no
01:29:17 ◼ ► like they but we all just happened to be there so they were like well if you're all gonna be here
01:29:20 ◼ ► you may i'm gonna be just down the street apple it's thrown a stone's throw away from apple park
01:29:28 ◼ ► i knew anyways it's get a big ladder a big ladder just i'm gonna build a trebuchet and just like
01:29:34 ◼ ► shoot myself over the park catapult yourself in yeah be fine don't they have like an anti-drone
01:29:39 ◼ ► system there i could be in trouble i i definitely don't have an anti-trebuchet system though who would
01:29:44 ◼ ► they haven't thought of that you at least expect it it just don't come in on a drone and you'll be
01:29:49 ◼ ► fine right i'm tunneling under as we speak what does an anti-drone system mean they're not lasering
01:29:54 ◼ ► them down or something right uh i don't know like uh like one of the like some of those government
01:29:59 ◼ ► birds because they're not real what bird yeah birds aren't birds aren't real don't you know that
01:30:04 ◼ ► federic you know the guy who started that is local to me really yeah i'm almost positive i'm gonna
01:30:12 ◼ ► yeah google that mike birds aren't real they're a government asset i'll put a link in the show notes
01:30:18 ◼ ► yes it started in uh in memphis incredible got that going for me whoa this is weird yeah if we still
01:30:27 ◼ ► had if we still had ungenius we would have 100 done this already apple if you want us to bring
01:30:33 ◼ ► a genius back invite us to apple park please don't billboard in memphis tennessee 2019 birds aren't real
01:30:39 ◼ ► i remember it going up and people were like what is what is happening anyways birds aren't real
01:30:48 ◼ ► i'd like to thank our sponsors this week century and squarespace thank you so much for listening
01:30:52 ◼ ► if you want more of the show you can get connected pro which is the longer and ad-free version of the
01:30:57 ◼ ► show we do each and every week this week we ranked the new super mario crocs nintendo nintendo crocs
01:31:18 ◼ ► well okay so it would make this noise every time you walk that's the noise it would make
01:31:22 ◼ ► because that's like a big part of wario's character so like that that would actually be pretty good
01:31:27 ◼ ► put a couple of whoopee cushions inside of the crocs i wouldn't buy them but it'd be fun
01:31:46 ◼ ► anyways connect to pro just seven bucks a month go sign up you can also leave us feedback uh there's a
01:31:52 ◼ ► link in the show notes to the feedback form let us know what you think we should replace the bonus pick
01:31:57 ◼ ► with so if you skipped over the chapter where i read i read the rules then you missed a suggested change
01:32:06 ◼ ► because i put it in one chapter so go back and listen there's a lot of constitutional drama inside