Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to episode 602 of the Connected Podcast on Relay. This episode is brought

00:00:12 ◼   ► to you by .pops, Squarespace, and Fundera by NerdWallet. My name is Mike Hurley and I am

00:00:17 ◼   ► of the honor to introduce to you the keynote chairman, Federico Batucci.

00:00:22 ◼   ► You stumbled there for a second, Mike, but thank you. I do my best.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I am pleased to bless you with my presence on this program, and it's my pleasure to also

00:00:35 ◼   ► introduce annual chairman, Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Hello, Federico. Hello, Mike.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:41 ◼   ► We're back.

00:00:42 ◼   ► We're blessing you, Mike, in case you haven't noticed.

00:00:45 ◼   ► You're blessed.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Oh, wow. Thank you.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Yes, you're blessed. And in a couple of weeks, you could become a keynote chairman, potentially.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I will.

00:00:53 ◼   ► We will.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Yeah. I'm calling my shot right now.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I'm going to beat everyone.

00:01:00 ◼   ► What do people say? You're claiming it? Is that what people say?

00:01:03 ◼   ► Is that... I mean, what does that mean?

00:01:06 ◼   ► I mean, I can say that.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I think it's what people say.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Is that like a meme?

00:01:09 ◼   ► Is that a Gen Z thing that I don't know about?

00:01:12 ◼   ► I know a lot of Gen Zers.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Are your kids Gen Z?

00:01:16 ◼   ► Two of them are.

00:01:18 ◼   ► My youngest, I'm pretty sure, is Gen Alpha, which is really upsetting.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Is that a thing now?

00:01:24 ◼   ► Sophia's Gen Beta.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Beta? Okay.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Yeah, man.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Not great for her, really.

00:01:31 ◼   ► It's not a great sounding name, is it?

00:01:33 ◼   ► What's the next one going to be called? Release Candidate? Am I right?

00:01:36 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Wowzers.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Gen RC.

00:01:46 ◼   ► I want to be Gen Final underscore V2 Final.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Gen 2026.2.4.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Is that what you're going to be?

00:01:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Can I...

00:01:57 ◼   ► Uh-oh.

00:01:57 ◼   ► I know that's a popular...

00:02:00 ◼   ► Actually, I don't think it is.

00:02:02 ◼   ► I think in some circles, it's a popular way to do version numbers in an app.

00:02:05 ◼   ► It just doesn't make any sense to me.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:09 ◼   ► I mean, the thing is, it's always incrementing, right?

00:02:12 ◼   ► I know people do it because they don't want to just increment.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Like, you know, this is version whatever, whatever.

00:02:17 ◼   ► But it still continues to increment.

00:02:19 ◼   ► It just increments in a different way.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Like, I don't know if it serves what people are hoping for.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:25 ◼   ► And it does avoid some of the things, like, Brian at Carrot Weather.

00:02:29 ◼   ► I think Carrot Weather, I'm trying to look it up, is on version...

00:02:34 ◼   ► Oh, where is this?

00:02:35 ◼   ► Is it in the App Store?

00:02:36 ◼   ► I can't find it out.

00:02:37 ◼   ► A million.

00:02:37 ◼   ► But it's like, point something, point something.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Like, it just kind of keeps going.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Uh...

00:02:45 ◼   ► This is version 6.5, but that's the...

00:02:47 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:02:48 ◼   ► It can be...

00:02:50 ◼   ► It can be messy.

00:02:50 ◼   ► Now, the other side is, like, sometimes it's underscore and I, like, debate.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Like, is this a .1 or is it a .0, .1?

00:02:57 ◼   ► You know?

00:02:57 ◼   ► But anyways.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Anyways, that's not what we're here to talk about.

00:03:01 ◼   ► We're here to talk about follow-up and that, of course, starts with the most incredible-looking car we've ever seen.

00:03:09 ◼   ► So, we got some pictures of the Apple livery from...

00:03:14 ◼   ► This was the Miami Grand Prix.

00:03:16 ◼   ► No, Lunaseca.

00:03:17 ◼   ► That's where these pictures are from.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, you got it.

00:03:19 ◼   ► And there's Phil Schiller in a...

00:03:23 ◼   ► An amazing tracksuit.

00:03:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Like, just truly incredible.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Phil's looking good, man.

00:03:29 ◼   ► He's in a tracksuit.

00:03:31 ◼   ► Like, how cool...

00:03:32 ◼   ► I mean, how cool is Phil Schiller in this picture?

00:03:33 ◼   ► Where's the picture with...

00:03:36 ◼   ► It's the second image.

00:03:37 ◼   ► The second pose from Joe Beam.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Joe Beam was there, clearly, at Laguna Seca and took some pictures of us.

00:03:43 ◼   ► And it's of the actual Porsche on track, which has the, like, Apple computer look.

00:03:48 ◼   ► And then, also, Porsche, I believe, brought some of the old cars to track.

00:03:54 ◼   ► And some newer cars that had been painted up.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Now, it's worth noting, one of these race cars, the name on the car, Phil Schiller.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:05 ◼   ► So, this is Phil's race car.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Where's the picture of Phil Schiller?

00:04:09 ◼   ► You're using Masterminds to scroll down.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:13 ◼   ► It was a federated picture of Federico.

00:04:17 ◼   ► So, that is actually Phil's track...

00:04:19 ◼   ► It's like his...

00:04:21 ◼   ► I said tracksuit.

00:04:22 ◼   ► I mean, it's his suit for driving.

00:04:25 ◼   ► That is a driving suit.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:27 ◼   ► Man, Phil looks good.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Yeah, man.

00:04:29 ◼   ► I mean, he's driving that car, so...

00:04:32 ◼   ► So, someone got in the car.

00:04:34 ◼   ► It just wasn't the one I thought.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:36 ◼   ► They're not putting John Tarnas in the car.

00:04:37 ◼   ► John Tarnas drives...

00:04:39 ◼   ► He rides his Porsches.

00:04:40 ◼   ► They should have.

00:04:41 ◼   ► But, he's CEO now.

00:04:43 ◼   ► They can't put him in an Apple car.

00:04:45 ◼   ► He was there.

00:04:46 ◼   ► See, I still think an image exists.

00:04:48 ◼   ► I've been scouring the internet.

00:04:50 ◼   ► I kind of want to have a dangerous Apple CEO.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Like, that does stun some things.

00:04:56 ◼   ► Like, the Tom Cruise of Apple CEOs.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Minus the Scientology of it all, obviously.

00:04:59 ◼   ► But, you know, like a CEO that does things.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Why not?

00:05:04 ◼   ► I still think that he got in the car.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Because, Eddie Q was in Miami for the Grand Prix, and he said that Tarnas was at Laguna Seca, and he couldn't make it to the Grand Prix.

00:05:13 ◼   ► So, I am convinced somewhere out there, there is an image of future CEO sitting inside of this Porsche.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Yeah, for sure.

00:05:21 ◼   ► For sure.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:05:23 ◼   ► How do y'all think this livery would look on a 2023 Tacoma?

00:05:30 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:05:31 ◼   ► I can pull this off.

00:05:32 ◼   ► You should do it.

00:05:33 ◼   ► And then get the, then, then get, ask Phil where his hookup is for this track, for this, like, racing suit.

00:05:38 ◼   ► Get one of those.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I got a Pokemon onesie from an old Puck-A-S-A-thon.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I could use that.

00:05:44 ◼   ► That's not the same.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Also, can we, can we appreciate for a second just how good of a name is Apple Computer?

00:05:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Oh, I know.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I miss it.

00:05:53 ◼   ► It was so cool.

00:05:54 ◼   ► When, when, when it became Apple Inc., that was, that was cool at the time, right?

00:06:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Because it's like, we're not just computers anymore.

00:06:04 ◼   ► But now it's like, ah, I miss the computer part.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Apple Computer, you know?

00:06:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Okay, we have, also have some follow-up about our Tim Cooked quote game that we played.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Cooked, yeah.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Played last week.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And we had a question about one of the quotes about the drop of blood.

00:06:28 ◼   ► So the quote is, Mike, you dug this out for me.

00:06:30 ◼   ► The quote was, we see it every day with every data breach, every privacy violation, every blind eye turned to hate speech.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Fake news, poisoning our national conversation, the false promise of miracles in exchange for a single drop of your blood.

00:06:44 ◼   ► We were like, well, that's weird.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Collectively, we-

00:06:47 ◼   ► It just seemed very intense.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:49 ◼   ► You know?

00:06:49 ◼   ► But the entire listenership of Connected reminded us of Theranos.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And that's what this is in reference to, right?

00:06:58 ◼   ► Theranos had the fraudulent blood machines.

00:07:01 ◼   ► You could put a drop in.

00:07:02 ◼   ► It could tell you everything wrong with you.

00:07:04 ◼   ► People are in prison to this day because of Theranos.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Avi Tavanian, an old-school Nexen Apple person, was on the board.

00:07:13 ◼   ► He's not in prison, though.

00:07:15 ◼   ► He's not in prison.

00:07:16 ◼   ► But yes, that obviously was in reference to Theranos.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And I don't know how that didn't click for any three of us, but it has now been corrected.

00:07:27 ◼   ► I would like to recommend a TV show called The Dropout, which is the dramatization of Theranos, starring Amanda Seyfried.

00:07:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:38 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Very good.

00:07:40 ◼   ► She does a great job of the voice.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Do you remember Elizabeth Holmes?

00:07:45 ◼   ► Like, she affected that voice.

00:07:47 ◼   ► And Seyfried does a really good job of that, too, over the course of the movie.

00:07:52 ◼   ► It's the TV series, I should say.

00:07:55 ◼   ► It's excellent.

00:07:55 ◼   ► It's really, really good.

00:07:56 ◼   ► And what a name.

00:07:57 ◼   ► It's good.

00:08:01 ◼   ► We did also have some praise.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And this idea, like, Federico, this was you.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Like, sometimes one of us just shows up and is like, I have a whole thing ready for you.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And Anne-Marie wrote in,

00:08:12 ◼   ► The Tim, quote, tier list was such an amazing, unhinged, connected energy.

00:08:17 ◼   ► No one else could match this.

00:08:19 ◼   ► I do not know how you three keep this up, but genuinely one of the funniest and most enjoyable ways to mark the era.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Never stop.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:08:27 ◼   ► Have we jumped the shark when we read this on the show?

00:08:29 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Like, Stephen just chose to congratulate us in front of everyone.

00:08:34 ◼   ► No, because to answer Anne-Marie, one of the ways to keep it up, usually in a couple, we can also do it in the thrapple that we are,

00:08:43 ◼   ► is every once in a while, you know, beyond, you know, the little bit of spice here and there.

00:08:48 ◼   ► Passion.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Lying about your age like Stephen does.

00:08:52 ◼   ► You also got to compliment each other every once in a while.

00:08:55 ◼   ► That's true.

00:08:56 ◼   ► It's balanced.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:08:58 ◼   ► That's one of the secrets.

00:09:00 ◼   ► One of the secrets.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Thank you, Anne-Marie.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Appreciate it.

00:09:03 ◼   ► For all of the nice comments that we got, we got a lot of mean comments, too, about Gamehub.

00:09:08 ◼   ► So Ben wrote in and said,

00:09:11 ◼   ► The reference made to the technique that Gamehub's using is if it's completely new.

00:09:17 ◼   ► However, Crossover by CodeWeavers, the maintainers of Wine, have been doing this level of performance now for quite a long time and integrate the game porting toolkit.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Federico mentioned Whiskey, which was essentially a community version of Crossover.

00:09:31 ◼   ► There are also major contributors to Proton on Linux.

00:09:33 ◼   ► It's been possible to play Windows games on a Mac, including AAA games for a while.

00:09:38 ◼   ► And Alex wrote in and said they are not using any kind of custom x86 emulation layer on Mac.

00:09:44 ◼   ► They're just using Rosetta 2.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Nobody ever said that.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I might have.

00:09:47 ◼   ► They are not using any kind of translation technology for Windows, DirectX, or similar.

00:09:51 ◼   ► They're just using Wine and adding a shiny UI plus AI frame interpolation.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Is the shiny UI also making sure that you can log into your Steam account and making sure that you can select the right driver, FEX version, DVX version?

00:10:07 ◼   ► The key here is that, like, sure, right?

00:10:10 ◼   ► The technology exists.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Sure, yeah.

00:10:11 ◼   ► They are making it accessible to most people rather than needing to, I don't know, find Crossover by CodeWeavers, I guess.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Pretty sure that Crossover or Wine, they never bothered with integrating with Proton, for example.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Like, that's, I mean, I understand the feedback, which is also appreciated, but I think it's an oversimplification to say, oh, Gamehub, it's a shiny UI on top of Wine and Crossover, because that's not it.

00:10:39 ◼   ► They're doing a lot more things to make sure that you can not just log into your Steam account, but, you know, especially when you consider the Android side of it all and now the Mac side, dealing with Proton, dealing with FEX by Valve, like all those things, to the best of my knowledge, were never part of Whiskey or Crossover.

00:10:58 ◼   ► So, I mean, sure, the technology is not new, but the packaging is often what matters, because, hey, otherwise we would all be using Linux computers and laptops on this show, and we're not DHH, we use Apple computers, because, I mean, it's also about the packaging sometimes, you know?

00:11:20 ◼   ► So, there's that.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:23 ◼   ► I have a little follow-out.

00:11:27 ◼   ► That's where we do follow-up for a different podcast, for some reason.

00:11:31 ◼   ► On this week's upgrade, Jason and you, Mike, we're talking about the forthcoming, yet still rumored, M6 class of MacBook Pros, which is expected to bring a redesign, and, most importantly, an OLED touch display.

00:11:51 ◼   ► It's been believed, I think, I think rightfully so, that this would be a more expensive MacBook Pro on top of the current machine.

00:11:58 ◼   ► So, the, you know, whether it be M5, or maybe those get the M6 as well, but there'd be a premium for the touchscreen and the OLED display.

00:12:09 ◼   ► And, y'all talking about the name MacBook Ultra.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Did this come from a listener question?

00:12:15 ◼   ► I forget how y'all got into this.

00:12:16 ◼   ► No, I think it was part of a rumor roundup.

00:12:18 ◼   ► Philip Esposito at Macworld reported that Apple would be using the name Ultra for both the folding phone and the MacBook.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And, Jason made a point of, like, don't do this unless you are committed to Ultra being a fourth laptop line.

00:12:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Which I totally agree with.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Like, and I think MacBook Pro is a really strong brand, and then you're making the Pro, like, the middle one.

00:12:46 ◼   ► Like, that's a bit weird.

00:12:48 ◼   ► And, y'all, like, touched on this, but then, like, flew away from it, like a butterfly landing on a flower and then going away.

00:12:57 ◼   ► So, I wanted to touch on it here.

00:12:58 ◼   ► That's really beautiful.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Apple solved this in 2012 with the MacBook Pro with Retina display.

00:13:04 ◼   ► It was the exact same situation.

00:13:06 ◼   ► You had the regular MacBook Pro, which was already unibody at that point, but did not have a Retina display.

00:13:15 ◼   ► The old one had an optical drive, and, you know, it was a little bit thicker, and they'd already sealed the batteries in at this point.

00:13:21 ◼   ► But it was that sort of classic unibody MacBook Pro.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And then, in 2012, they said, hey, actually, it was Phil Schiller, speaking of our neighborhood Porsche driver, saying, do you want to see what the future is?

00:13:36 ◼   ► Like, come over here.

00:13:37 ◼   ► Like, let me show you where we're going.

00:13:39 ◼   ► And unveiled a high-end MacBook Pro with a new industrial design and a new display.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And I think and hope that that's what Apple does this time around, is that it's the MacBook Pro with something.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Now, I don't know what the name is, because Retina display, like, that's wordy, but it worked.

00:13:59 ◼   ► I don't know what they would say this time.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Like, liquid touch.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:14:04 ◼   ► Or, like, with multi-touch or, you know.

00:14:07 ◼   ► But what that lets you do is it lets you keep the name separate as long as you need to, because eventually, all MacBook Pros got Retina displays, right?

00:14:17 ◼   ► And the distinction went away, because it was clear, again, this is going to start at the top, it's going to come downhill in price and feature set over time, and once that happens, we don't need the distinction anymore.

00:14:31 ◼   ► And I hope, at least, this is exactly what's going to happen now.

00:14:36 ◼   ► What I don't want to have happen is what Jason said, is that the Ultra is like a new machine or a new, you know, a new little family of laptops at the high-end, and that Apple never brings OLED and touch to the other models.

00:14:53 ◼   ► I think that's a mistake.

00:14:54 ◼   ► I think all MacBooks should have touch displays on them at some point, and keeping it, like, in its own thing just makes me worry that that wouldn't happen for a long time.

00:15:06 ◼   ► But if you give it a modifier, then, hey, you know, it signals that we're going to do what we did last time, and, yeah, it may take a little while, and, like, the last non-retina MacBook Pro hung out way too long, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with the last non-touch laptop.

00:15:22 ◼   ► It'll hang on for 10 years, but I think a modifier is better than a new brand name, and I hope that's the lane Apple's going to go down.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and I just, I'm not, I'm not set on this Ultra name anyway, like, I don't think that it necessarily works for the, for products outside of the watch, I don't know.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Wait until they call it MacBook Studio.

00:15:49 ◼   ► That would be fun.

00:15:50 ◼   ► See, I would like that name.

00:15:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:53 ◼   ► If they, if they had something that was more kind of, like, design-y feeling about the touchscreen, you know?

00:16:00 ◼   ► Because I could see a scenario in which they pitch it as a way for creative people to be even more creative on a MacBook.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Sure.

00:16:07 ◼   ► I just, I don't imagine that they will only make one touchscreen laptop.

00:16:11 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:16:13 ◼   ► The touchscreens will come to all of the MacBooks, and so then what's the MacBook Studio if they all have touchscreens in three years, four years?

00:16:21 ◼   ► Apple could do what they want.

00:16:22 ◼   ► They're not bound by their history.

00:16:23 ◼   ► So they could give it a brand name.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Studio is a good brand name, and it's weird that it's just on a couple products.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I actually disagree about the Ultra name.

00:16:32 ◼   ► We can have that debate another time, but I think it means whatever, all these names mean whatever Apple wants them to mean.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and I just don't like it.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Like, it's not really, I mean, I do have, I make the argument of, like, Ultra seems to suggest it will have more, but the folding phone will have a lot less in a bunch of ways.

00:16:51 ◼   ► But irrespective of that, I'm just not a big fan of Ultra as a product name.

00:16:59 ◼   ► So, yeah, that's our follow-up to Upgrade.

00:17:02 ◼   ► It's a good program.

00:17:03 ◼   ► I do worry that Apple may be a little overexcited about the success of the Neo and, like, loving the idea of having another laptop brand.

00:17:14 ◼   ► That they may just do it on the other end.

00:17:17 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:19 ◼   ► Yeah, that's definitely a concern.

00:17:21 ◼   ► I think it would be...

00:17:25 ◼   ► I just think it...

00:17:25 ◼   ► For years, we talked about how messy the MacBook lineup was.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And it's like, they kind of finally have it in a way that makes sense.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Like, just leave it alone.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Like, just leave it alone.

00:17:36 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by DocPops.

00:17:42 ◼   ► My macOS dock is a bit of a mess.

00:17:46 ◼   ► I bounce around between a lot of apps throughout my day.

00:17:49 ◼   ► Some things I'm using constantly.

00:17:51 ◼   ► Some things maybe once a day or once a week.

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00:18:44 ◼   ► And these Pops can have pages so you can swipe between them.

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00:19:13 ◼   ► It's one person who was annoyed at their dock and decided to fix it.

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00:19:29 ◼   ► Go to DocPops.com slash connected.

00:19:33 ◼   ► The link is in the show notes.

00:19:34 ◼   ► My thanks to DocPops for their support of the show and all of Relay.

00:19:40 ◼   ► I got some bad news, boys.

00:19:42 ◼   ► We're the bad news, boys.

00:19:44 ◼   ► Apple continues to struggle with memory shortages.

00:19:48 ◼   ► All sorts of weird things are happening in the Mac lineup.

00:19:52 ◼   ► Mike, you just mentioned the MacBook Neo.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Do you want to walk us through this report from Tim Coulpin?

00:19:59 ◼   ► So Tim Coulpin had a report a couple of weeks ago kind of saying Apple completely underestimated the demand of the MacBook Neo and is now facing a crossroads.

00:20:09 ◼   ► I think we spoke about it on the show a little bit.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Like, essentially, they ran out of the processors, the A18 Pros.

00:20:16 ◼   ► They just ran out of them.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And if they were going to continue to sell the Neo, they weren't going to let it go out of stock.

00:20:23 ◼   ► They had to buy the chips from somewhere, like, sorry, like, source the chips from somewhere.

00:20:29 ◼   ► And so the most likely scenario that they would end up doing is getting TSMC to make more of them.

00:20:36 ◼   ► But that's going to be expensive because they're going to need to kind of jump the queue to do that.

00:20:40 ◼   ► Because the node that those chips are made on is, like, oversubscribed by not just Apple, by everybody.

00:20:47 ◼   ► And so, like, I'll just say, like, to kind of prove the point in the earnings call last week, Tim Cook said, we're supply constrained on the MacBook Neo.

00:20:58 ◼   ► We were bullish.

00:20:59 ◼   ► There you go, Federica.

00:21:00 ◼   ► We were bullish on the product before announcing it.

00:21:02 ◼   ► But we undercalled the level of enthusiasm that would be with it.

00:21:05 ◼   ► So they basically just did a way too good of a job with the Neo.

00:21:10 ◼   ► And it's like it was a product that was essentially created to give a use to chips that were not good enough to go in the iPhones, right?

00:21:18 ◼   ► They're all binned chips.

00:21:19 ◼   ► But now they've created, like, the hottest computer.

00:21:22 ◼   ► And so it's, I mean, it's a good problem to have, but they've ended up in a scenario where they don't have the chips.

00:21:29 ◼   ► So Tim Coppin has published another report yesterday, kind of following up on this, essentially saying that what Apple has chosen to do, they had a bunch of things that they could have potentially done.

00:21:41 ◼   ► What they have chosen to do is ask TSMC to go ahead and make more chips for them.

00:21:46 ◼   ► So they're going to make more A18 Pros.

00:21:48 ◼   ► I'm going to read from Tim's newsletter.

00:21:52 ◼   ► With a fresh batch of A18 Pro System-on-a-chips, most of the new processors for the Neo will actually be top tier and only some would fall into the down bin category.

00:22:01 ◼   ► This means that in most cases, the six GPUs would be fully functional in the Neo.

00:22:06 ◼   ► But Apple is likely to deal with the disparity by simply switching off one of the GPUs through software.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And so, like, the funny thing is now that they're actually going to make the good chips and they're going to have to put these chips, which are essentially more expensive, into the Neo.

00:22:21 ◼   ► So Apple is definitely, definitely going to start losing margin on this computer now because they have had to produce more chips, which is more expensive.

00:22:30 ◼   ► They are now kind of taking the cost, which is not of these chips for this computer.

00:22:36 ◼   ► It's not so much, like, amortized across the iPhone line as well, right?

00:22:41 ◼   ► Because these chips are essentially just unused.

00:22:44 ◼   ► They were rejects and they were going to this computer.

00:22:46 ◼   ► It's probably another reason why they get the price down to the level that they have.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And so now they're kind of paying for the success of this product by needing to produce chips for it specifically so they can continue.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And they've essentially doubled the overall order.

00:23:03 ◼   ► I think it was 5 million units they had originally ordered of the Neo, and now it's 10 million.

00:23:12 ◼   ► It's just wild that Apple is, like, so good at this, and this product surprised them.

00:23:17 ◼   ► It doesn't seem to happen very often.

00:23:19 ◼   ► You can't know, though.

00:23:21 ◼   ► I mean, like...

00:23:22 ◼   ► No, no, you can't.

00:23:22 ◼   ► But there's only so much you can do, right?

00:23:25 ◼   ► And it seems like this product has kind of surpassed even their best expectation for what it could have done.

00:23:32 ◼   ► So that's still that TikTok market in, man.

00:23:36 ◼   ► I mean, I've had...

00:23:38 ◼   ► Maybe y'all have had this.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I've had friends of mine who aren't Apple users, like Android users, PC users, like, hey, I need a new laptop.

00:23:45 ◼   ► Or sending my kid to school, they need a laptop.

00:23:48 ◼   ► Like, should I look at the Neo?

00:23:50 ◼   ► People I never would have guessed.

00:23:53 ◼   ► It's been really cool to see.

00:23:54 ◼   ► It's what Apple wanted.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Now, the thing now is, though, what will they do, right?

00:24:00 ◼   ► So this product is going to be more expensive to produce.

00:24:04 ◼   ► So they have a few routes.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Either, A, they can just eat the margin difference.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Realistically, as long as they're not losing money on it, not going to show in the financials because the Mac line isn't big enough, right?

00:24:17 ◼   ► It's kind of how I look at it.

00:24:19 ◼   ► But anyway, so, like, they could just eat it.

00:24:22 ◼   ► They could, or Tim Colpin suggests another two things they could do.

00:24:27 ◼   ► They could stop selling the 256-gigabyte model, so they will raise the starting price to $6.99, so it would just be the $5.12.

00:24:34 ◼   ► Or they could introduce new colors now to kind of give another shot of enthusiasm.

00:24:41 ◼   ► I'm not really sure how that would help.

00:24:43 ◼   ► They would just sell more of them in that scenario, but it's also something they could do.

00:24:46 ◼   ► And maybe kind of, like, the more they can sell for sure, the better it will be overall.

00:24:51 ◼   ► But they're definitely going to lose margin on this.

00:24:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:54 ◼   ► So all this to say, computer, good.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:58 ◼   ► That's all right.

00:24:58 ◼   ► People love this computer.

00:24:59 ◼   ► Like, they love it.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Computer, too good.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Yeah, too good.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And I don't really know what this...

00:25:05 ◼   ► I would love to know the conversations inside of Apple, where it's like, well, now what do we do?

00:25:10 ◼   ► Like, going into the future?

00:25:12 ◼   ► Like, have we created a product that is going to be consistently very popular?

00:25:17 ◼   ► Because this machine was kind of always meant to sell up to a fixed amount, which is not, I think, how Apple tend to be, right?

00:25:26 ◼   ► With this stuff, like, in theory, for it to be what they wanted it to be, they could only ever sell up to as many bin chips as they had, which feels like something you can kind of, you know, I'm sure they can rough this stuff out.

00:25:39 ◼   ► But, like, if you're not producing the A18 Pros to create the bin chips, then what is weird is it kind of feels like the strategy that they had, which on paper seemed really good, has kind of bit them a little bit now.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Which, again, good problem to have, because computers are too popular.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Certainly interesting.

00:26:00 ◼   ► The other problem they have is that they can't get their hands on memory, at least at the pricing they want, or they're trying to preserve the memory they have for their more popular products, probably a little bit of both.

00:26:13 ◼   ► But they keep narrowing what's available for the Mac Mini and the Mac Studio.

00:26:20 ◼   ► So, back in March, we talked about this, they killed Federico's beloved 512 gig unified memory model at the Mac Studio.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Still have my loan from Apple, and I'm not giving it back.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a rare bird now.

00:26:33 ◼   ► I'm surprised that they haven't, like, just, like, written you many letters to get that thing back at this point.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:38 ◼   ► They can pop the RAM out of there and sell it.

00:26:40 ◼   ► I think, and this is totally, like, you know, sort of inside baseball, I think Apple loves the coverage of this computer.

00:26:52 ◼   ► Like, it all started because, like, they were approaching people for coverage on, like, MLX, Apple Silicon, local AI models.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And I think what they have, and this is sort of my speculation, not coming, I'm not quoting Apple here.

00:27:06 ◼   ► But my sense is that they were happily caught by surprise by the open claw phenomenon of it all.

00:27:14 ◼   ► And now they're just going with it, which is, I mean, if you're Apple and you find any way that people can talk positively about you in terms of AI, you'll take just about anything these days.

00:27:27 ◼   ► Because that's what's happened is these, I mean, it's OpenClaw and everything else, right?

00:27:33 ◼   ► It's not just OpenClaw.

00:27:35 ◼   ► It's all of that claw co-work, OpenAI codecs, all of these things that can do some kind of computer use.

00:27:43 ◼   ► People are buying Mac minis, especially, so that it's sequestered from their computer.

00:27:49 ◼   ► And so they have this, like, clean room computer, which they only give it what it needs, and then they have it on all the time running and working for them.

00:27:57 ◼   ► And it's resulted in, in the last two weeks, Apple have made two changes to the starting model, right?

00:28:05 ◼   ► Like, they cut off the 16 gigabyte $5.99 version, went to a $6.99 version.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Then they cut the $6.99 version, so now it starts at $7.99, the Mac mini.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Which is very strange to make two cuts to the same product in a week.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Like, what happened in the intervening, like, three or four days that they had to do it again?

00:28:26 ◼   ► There was something funny that I've seen, and I've mentioned this in a few places now, but perplexity is just sending Mac minis to people?

00:28:34 ◼   ► I keep seeing this everywhere.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Like, creators that I follow.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Yeah, supposedly they're sending one to me as well.

00:28:42 ◼   ► Really?

00:28:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Yeah, they just keep mailing Mac minis to everybody.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Seems to be the case.

00:28:49 ◼   ► Which seems unneeded to do, but, like, this is part of the problem, right?

00:28:54 ◼   ► Like, they're buying a bunch to send to influencers.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Yep.

00:28:59 ◼   ► People are buying them because they want to just have these cleanroom computers, and also people just want them for computers.

00:29:04 ◼   ► And it's ended up that we're now in this situation where I think Apple, I think it's a combo, right?

00:29:10 ◼   ► Of one, they're selling more of this actual computer than they expected, so they don't have the chassis for these computers.

00:29:17 ◼   ► But also, too, they are prioritizing RAM for the laptops.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Sure.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Which is why they're happy to cut this one.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Yeah, it's the majority of what they sell are those notebooks, and they got to keep that train moving.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just, it's wild.

00:29:32 ◼   ► I mean, the delivery dates continue to be really far out.

00:29:35 ◼   ► And it stinks.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Like, if you just straight up need a Mac mini right now, like, you're just, you know, you need one for your office or your, you know, under your TV or whatever, it's like, good luck.

00:29:46 ◼   ► You know, you can't, you can't get one.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It stinks.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Especially not for the price you used to be able to get them for.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:52 ◼   ► I was one of those people just a few weeks ago.

00:29:55 ◼   ► I was trying to get a Mac mini.

00:29:56 ◼   ► It's like, nope, can't do that.

00:29:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and then also, it looks like Apple's going to start getting hit by the RAM stuff at some point in the next few months.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Tim Cook gave, like, a really roundabout way of trying to say, like, there's going to be maybe some decisions we need to make, essentially.

00:30:11 ◼   ► And so we'll see what they end up doing or not in regards to RAM pricing.

00:30:15 ◼   ► I think this is the first step is they're going to start cutting the lowest margin products.

00:30:20 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online.

00:30:35 ◼   ► I've been using Squarespace forever, and I keep finding new cool things I can do with it.

00:30:40 ◼   ► The newsletter thing, we've talked about that in these ads before, and we've actually moved our newsletters for Widgetsmith and Pedometer++ into Squarespace.

00:30:48 ◼   ► The sites were there, but we're using another provider.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I waited way too long.

00:30:52 ◼   ► The newsletter integration is really awesome in Squarespace.

00:30:56 ◼   ► For instance, when you build out your content, in the sidebar, you see a bunch of your site's design elements.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Colors, logo, fonts, all these things that make the website yours.

00:31:11 ◼   ► They're really easy to translate into the newsletter, and it really feels robust.

00:31:18 ◼   ► A lot of newsletter editors are kind of finicky, and you're afraid you're going to break something.

00:31:22 ◼   ► Look, if you've used Squarespace's drag-and-drop editor in other places, it's going to feel really familiar when you go to send a newsletter.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And all those built-in analytics that are great on the Squarespace website side, newsletters know about those, too.

00:31:35 ◼   ► So it's easy to track things like open rates and click-through, all the stuff that marketing people care about.

00:31:42 ◼   ► It's all there.

00:31:43 ◼   ► But the best part is you don't have to be a marketing person to use this stuff.

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00:32:23 ◼   ► That's squarespace.com slash connected and the code CONNECTED for 10% off your first purchase.

00:32:30 ◼   ► My thanks to Squarespace for the support of the show and all of Relay.

00:32:36 ◼   ► So to continue our special coverage of John Turner's becoming, in a few months, Apple CEO, I thought we would do something else for this week's episode.

00:32:47 ◼   ► We covered the tier list of Tim Cook quotes last week, and this week came up with another idea.

00:32:56 ◼   ► The tentative title for this segment was Jobs for John, and it's a classic connected style round robin where we give, each of us gives three suggestions to the upcoming Apple CEO, John Turner's.

00:33:12 ◼   ► These are not predictions.

00:33:13 ◼   ► There are no points or money on the line.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Oh, I thought we were scoring this.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Unless you guys want to make it.

00:33:20 ◼   ► I mean, I think we should score it at least, like maybe like a year from now.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:25 ◼   ► I'm always down to gamble.

00:33:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:28 ◼   ► So when we're done, I'll save this and we'll come back to it next May.

00:33:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And it's just a total of nine predictions slash suggestions.

00:33:40 ◼   ► And I think I'm going to go first because I came up with the idea.

00:33:45 ◼   ► That's the only reason.

00:33:47 ◼   ► This is probably going to sound controversial.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I'm just going to say it.

00:33:50 ◼   ► John, acquire perplexity.

00:33:55 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:56 ◼   ► And now stay with me.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Obviously, this company is in, how do you say it, hot waters with many other publications and companies that have sued perplexity.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And they don't have exactly the greatest pedigree when it comes to things like scraping the web, data practices, and all of that.

00:34:22 ◼   ► But...

00:34:23 ◼   ► You're not...

00:34:24 ◼   ► So I'm turning this into the scenario.

00:34:25 ◼   ► You're not selling me so far.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Nope.

00:34:27 ◼   ► I'm getting to it.

00:34:28 ◼   ► I'm getting to it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I'm getting to it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I'm getting to it.

00:34:30 ◼   ► That's totally something that Apple Legal can help with.

00:34:33 ◼   ► But here's the thing that a lot of people in our community don't want to hear.

00:34:39 ◼   ► Perplexity has a good product.

00:34:41 ◼   ► They have great designers.

00:34:43 ◼   ► And they have two good apps in the form of regular perplexity and the new personal computer.

00:34:53 ◼   ► Most of all, perplexity has a good product for being an aggregator of multiple AI services.

00:35:01 ◼   ► I mean, I remember when you were the person who didn't want to hear this.

00:35:04 ◼   ► These are the guys you hated the most.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Since you know me so well, I'm so humble.

00:35:12 ◼   ► And that's why I can say that one of my greatest qualities is the ability to change my mind.

00:35:18 ◼   ► He's so humble.

00:35:19 ◼   ► He's so humble.

00:35:19 ◼   ► He's so humble.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Look, what's the opposite of humble?

00:35:24 ◼   ► Non-humble.

00:35:26 ◼   ► Non-humble.

00:35:27 ◼   ► What is it like?

00:35:28 ◼   ► You're like famous and infamous.

00:35:29 ◼   ► You're like in-humble.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And in-humble person wouldn't say this.

00:35:34 ◼   ► In-humble person.

00:35:38 ◼   ► No, but look, especially if you're Apple and you're in this position where it seems like they will end up being in iOS 27 with the new Siri.

00:35:48 ◼   ► They will bet on becoming an official platform aggregator of multiple AI services with the Gemini deal.

00:35:57 ◼   ► They already have the CharGPT extension.

00:35:59 ◼   ► They're going to have even more extensions in Siri.

00:36:03 ◼   ► So it's right there.

00:36:05 ◼   ► What perplexity has been doing and what Apple wants to do, there's a lot of overlap.

00:36:10 ◼   ► It's interesting, right?

00:36:12 ◼   ► Because I remember people have been saying this for a while.

00:36:14 ◼   ► There were actually conversations reported on, right?

00:36:17 ◼   ► That they were going to buy perplexity.

00:36:19 ◼   ► And I remember at the time we were saying, why would they want to do this?

00:36:22 ◼   ► Perplexity doesn't have the models, which felt like the important thing.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Neither does Apple.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Now we've gotten to the point where Apple doesn't have the models either and is building products.

00:36:33 ◼   ► We assume going to try and build products that are not too far away from what perplexity is doing, which is we need to build tools that integrate with any model that we may choose to work with, which is like their whole thing.

00:36:44 ◼   ► They have a really good search engine, which Apple wants to have for Siri integration with the web.

00:36:49 ◼   ► They have a great voice experience that already integrates with Reminders and Apple Music.

00:36:55 ◼   ► They have the new perplexity computer, which is something that you install on a Mac.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And I've been using that, comparing that to OpenClaw and the cloud integration that you have on desktop.

00:37:08 ◼   ► It's by far the best designed experience for a desktop agent that I've seen to date.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Really nice design.

00:37:17 ◼   ► Tons of permission prompts, which I'm sure Apple will love.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Lots of sandboxing.

00:37:22 ◼   ► You've sold us.

00:37:24 ◼   ► How can we spam people when they install a new version of Mac OS?

00:37:29 ◼   ► Got it.

00:37:30 ◼   ► John, I'm telling you, this thing has so many permission prompts, you're going to love it.

00:37:37 ◼   ► They have really nice design and they are just...

00:37:41 ◼   ► This idea of the model agnostic AI provider, it seems to me like that's exactly where Apple is going to end up being.

00:37:51 ◼   ► And so it's right there.

00:37:54 ◼   ► It's been rumored for a while and then it was not rumored anymore.

00:37:57 ◼   ► I just feel like...

00:37:59 ◼   ► Also, let's face it.

00:38:00 ◼   ► At some point, perplexity will be looking for an exit, right?

00:38:04 ◼   ► They have not raised the kind of money that OpenAI has raised.

00:38:08 ◼   ► And, you know, these companies like OpenAI and Anthropic have basically become impossible to acquire.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Unless, I don't know, you're the government of the United States or something.

00:38:21 ◼   ► But, perplexity has raised some money, but not an obscene amount of money.

00:38:25 ◼   ► And, at some point today, we'll be looking for a way out.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And, when that happens, John, they're right there.

00:38:33 ◼   ► They have great designers, really nice experience.

00:38:36 ◼   ► They know how to deal with multiple models at the same time.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Why not?

00:38:41 ◼   ► All right.

00:38:43 ◼   ► My first pick.

00:38:44 ◼   ► John, resist saying one more thing.

00:38:48 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:38:50 ◼   ► You've got to build up to that.

00:38:54 ◼   ► What about one extra thing?

00:38:57 ◼   ► Hey, here's another one.

00:38:58 ◼   ► You could say those.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Just don't do it.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I say don't do it at all.

00:39:05 ◼   ► I think that this is the thing that shouldn't have continued post-jobs, honestly.

00:39:08 ◼   ► Because I don't think any of the times that they have said it since justified saying it all.

00:39:15 ◼   ► I would love to have a list of what they are.

00:39:18 ◼   ► I know they did it for the Vision Pro.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Right?

00:39:23 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch.

00:39:24 ◼   ► The Apple.

00:39:25 ◼   ► And I just think that none of these things justify that.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Look, not all of the jobs one more thing justified it.

00:39:34 ◼   ► but it was still like it was his thing, right?

00:39:37 ◼   ► And so I'll Apple Music for Zoe.

00:39:41 ◼   ► The iPhone 10.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Okay, maybe that one, right?

00:39:44 ◼   ► Like maybe that one was good enough.

00:39:45 ◼   ► But anyway, I think that there is a real risk that he's going to do it in his first keynote with the iPhone, with the folding iPhone.

00:39:53 ◼   ► Like I'm worried he's going to do it.

00:39:55 ◼   ► And it's like, John, just don't do it.

00:39:57 ◼   ► That's really interesting.

00:39:59 ◼   ► I think that you've got to make your own way here.

00:40:04 ◼   ► And I think playing the hits like that is not the best way to start.

00:40:09 ◼   ► That's my feeling on this.

00:40:11 ◼   ► And everyone's going to get so excited when he says it.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:40:14 ◼   ► And when he says it, I'm going to get goosebumps.

00:40:16 ◼   ► But still, I wish he wouldn't do it.

00:40:18 ◼   ► I'm not opposed to him saying it.

00:40:20 ◼   ► I do agree that it should be timed, not the beginning.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Like don't do it off the bat.

00:40:28 ◼   ► But I think it's a fun part of history.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I think he might do it.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Because, you know, it's probably nothing bigger than a new iPhone, you know?

00:40:37 ◼   ► It's true.

00:40:38 ◼   ► But I just...

00:40:40 ◼   ► Got that wide boy coming, you know?

00:40:42 ◼   ► All right.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Mine is stop cluttering the UI with ads for services and...

00:40:50 ◼   ► I cheated a little bit.

00:40:51 ◼   ► Increase free iCloud space.

00:40:53 ◼   ► I don't think you're going to get...

00:40:57 ◼   ► I don't think this is going to go the way you want it to.

00:40:58 ◼   ► I don't want to get yours either, but I think...

00:41:01 ◼   ► Hey, I'm Mike.

00:41:01 ◼   ► I think that I'm totally fine with Apple telling their customers that services exist.

00:41:10 ◼   ► I think there's lots of ways you could do that.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Just like app developers have to figure out a way to tell their users about subscriptions

00:41:17 ◼   ► and an app purchase, there's clearly a spectrum there of ways you can do it

00:41:21 ◼   ► that respect the user and your app and that don't respect the user or your app.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And Apple's been sliding toward the second.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Badging a settings app icon because you haven't set up Apple Pay feels aggressive.

00:41:34 ◼   ► But now, if I'm in settings, show me, right?

00:41:37 ◼   ► I think you can give people some credit that they do bounce around inside their phone and

00:41:42 ◼   ► their devices, surface them where they make sense.

00:41:44 ◼   ► But I'd like to see that dial back a little bit.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And come on, five gigs.

00:41:49 ◼   ► We don't have to talk about this anymore.

00:41:51 ◼   ► Like, what are we doing?

00:41:52 ◼   ► What are we doing?

00:41:53 ◼   ► Just double it.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Just do something, you know?

00:41:54 ◼   ► I say that.

00:41:55 ◼   ► I know it's complicated.

00:41:56 ◼   ► I know that I have...

00:41:58 ◼   ► Stake the claim for myself of not liking data centers, and that requires more data centers,

00:42:03 ◼   ► but it's painful.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Maybe the alternative is making the paid iCloud tiers cheaper.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Doing something to make that better for people.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:13 ◼   ► How...

00:42:14 ◼   ► Do you have a...

00:42:15 ◼   ► Like, can you verbalize what ads are okay and what aren't?

00:42:23 ◼   ► I think a hard line for me is putting a badge on the settings icon, like on the dock or on

00:42:29 ◼   ► the home screen of the phone.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Yep.

00:42:31 ◼   ► If I open the sports app and there's a banner at the top about F1, I'm okay with that.

00:42:38 ◼   ► Like, it's in context of what I'm doing.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Ads and maps?

00:42:42 ◼   ► I don't like that, but mainly because I think it's...

00:42:46 ◼   ► Because I like maps a lot.

00:42:48 ◼   ► I just don't want ads in it.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:50 ◼   ► This is a messy thing.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Like, you know?

00:42:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:52 ◼   ► There's no clear lines, and there's lots of levers Apple can adjust.

00:42:55 ◼   ► It's like you know it when you see it, I think, is the...

00:42:57 ◼   ► Sure.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Because everybody has their own lines, too, right?

00:43:01 ◼   ► Like, I have no problem with ads and maps.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Because I'm a Google Maps user, so I can add some maps, you know?

00:43:07 ◼   ► Like, I'm very used to ads and maps.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:09 ◼   ► And there are upsides...

00:43:13 ◼   ► I'm going to say this.

00:43:14 ◼   ► There are upsides to having ads in a mapping product, right?

00:43:19 ◼   ► If you're a local company, like, it could be huge for you, right?

00:43:23 ◼   ► Like, there's this thing...

00:43:24 ◼   ► I mean, I think we've talked about this before, where, like, you'll see a company,

00:43:28 ◼   ► it's like AAA Locksmith.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Well, they did that, so they were the top of the yellow pages.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Right.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Or now it's a coffee place near me, and that's, like, the name of the coffee shop

00:43:38 ◼   ► because they're, like, gaming SEO.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Like, there are reasons to have ads in a product like Maps.

00:43:44 ◼   ► For me, I'm just sad about it because I really like Apple Maps.

00:43:47 ◼   ► I basically use it exclusively now, and I pay for Apple One,

00:43:54 ◼   ► and that's another lever they could pull of, like,

00:43:56 ◼   ► if you're paying for these other things, do you have a lighter ad load?

00:43:59 ◼   ► Do you have no ad load?

00:44:00 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:44:01 ◼   ► I'm not the CEO, but I think it needs a drop.

00:44:03 ◼   ► That's a bit of a follow-up for you.

00:44:08 ◼   ► I have been sent in the Discord a list of one-more-thing moments.

00:44:14 ◼   ► This is found by Jared HP.

00:44:16 ◼   ► I don't know if this is, like, exhaustive,

00:44:19 ◼   ► but there were 29 instances of one-more-thing.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Five of them were Tim Cook.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:28 ◼   ► Would you allow me, permit me to read this list?

00:44:31 ◼   ► Sure.

00:44:31 ◼   ► So the first one was Apple's return to profitability.

00:44:35 ◼   ► And Steve said one last thing here,

00:44:40 ◼   ► and then referenced that they were returning to profitability.

00:44:43 ◼   ► I'm sure that was very important in 1998.

00:44:45 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Apple Airport was the next one.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Then the 22-inch Apple Cinema display.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:44:56 ◼   ► iMac DV.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Hey.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Including the SE and iMovie.

00:45:01 ◼   ► That thing had Firewire.

00:45:03 ◼   ► Get on board with the future.

00:45:04 ◼   ► One more thing.

00:45:06 ◼   ► Then the announcement of Aqua

00:45:09 ◼   ► and Jobs becoming the CEO of Aqua 2000.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:14 ◼   ► The Power Mac G4 Cube.

00:45:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:45:17 ◼   ► That's worthy.

00:45:18 ◼   ► That was a good one.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Then the PowerBook G4.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Then in 2002,

00:45:25 ◼   ► iPod for Windows.

00:45:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And the 17-inch iMac G4 at the same time.

00:45:32 ◼   ► Then it was PowerMac G5,

00:45:34 ◼   ► PowerBook G4,

00:45:35 ◼   ► the 12-inch aluminum version.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:38 ◼   ► 2004,

00:45:39 ◼   ► the iPod Mini.

00:45:40 ◼   ► That's good.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Was the one more thing.

00:45:42 ◼   ► Then the 30-inch cinema display.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:45:44 ◼   ► And 2005,

00:45:46 ◼   ► iPod Shuffle.

00:45:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:48 ◼   ► And then iPod with video.

00:45:51 ◼   ► It's funny to me,

00:45:52 ◼   ► the new iPods all being one more thing.

00:45:55 ◼   ► It's like,

00:45:55 ◼   ► we knew they were going to keep making more iPods.

00:45:57 ◼   ► It's not surprising.

00:45:58 ◼   ► It's like,

00:45:59 ◼   ► imagine if every year at the iPhone event,

00:46:01 ◼   ► it's like,

00:46:01 ◼   ► one more thing,

00:46:02 ◼   ► we have a new iPhone.

00:46:03 ◼   ► It's like,

00:46:04 ◼   ► Steve,

00:46:05 ◼   ► we know you're going to keep doing this.

00:46:06 ◼   ► In 2006,

00:46:08 ◼   ► MacBook Pro.

00:46:09 ◼   ► And then again in 2006,

00:46:11 ◼   ► iTunes movies,

00:46:13 ◼   ► Apple TV,

00:46:14 ◼   ► and a John Mayer performance.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Hey man,

00:46:17 ◼   ► John Mayer's a big deal.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Safari for Windows.

00:46:20 ◼   ► That was one more thing.

00:46:23 ◼   ► Safari for Windows.

00:46:24 ◼   ► Get this.

00:46:26 ◼   ► 2007,

00:46:27 ◼   ► the iTunes Wi-Fi music store.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Hey,

00:46:31 ◼   ► we joke about that now,

00:46:33 ◼   ► but it was kind of sick to be able to buy music wherever you were.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Kind of cool.

00:46:38 ◼   ► So what were we doing before then?

00:46:39 ◼   ► Sinking,

00:46:40 ◼   ► buying it on your power book and syncing it with a wire.

00:46:42 ◼   ► So was this deal,

00:46:44 ◼   ► the availability to buy it from like your iPhone and your iPod touch?

00:46:48 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Because it was 2007.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Okay.

00:46:50 ◼   ► 2008,

00:46:52 ◼   ► the aluminum unibody MacBook.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Then 2009,

00:46:56 ◼   ► the iPod Nano with video and speaker.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Then FaceTime.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Apple TV and iOS in 2010.

00:47:08 ◼   ► MacBook Air in 2010.

00:47:10 ◼   ► It's a revision of it.

00:47:12 ◼   ► iTunes Match was one more thing.

00:47:14 ◼   ► That was Steve's last one more thing.

00:47:16 ◼   ► That's rough.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Wowzers.

00:47:18 ◼   ► And then Tim Cook did the Apple Watch,

00:47:21 ◼   ► Apple Music,

00:47:22 ◼   ► iPhone 10,

00:47:24 ◼   ► and the M1 chip,

00:47:26 ◼   ► which I will also give him as a good reason.

00:47:28 ◼   ► And then the Apple Vision Pro.

00:47:29 ◼   ► I feel like the iPhone 10 and the M1 were worth it.

00:47:32 ◼   ► The others that Tim did were not.

00:47:34 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:47:36 ◼   ► There's a list of one more things for you.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Okay.

00:47:38 ◼   ► Mike,

00:47:40 ◼   ► you're up next.

00:47:41 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Make local Apple intelligence models a product that people actually want to use.

00:47:47 ◼   ► They're not good, right?

00:47:50 ◼   ► Because they're,

00:47:50 ◼   ► they're,

00:47:51 ◼   ► there's not only are local AI models difficult anyway,

00:47:55 ◼   ► because they're never going to be as good as the stuff you can put in the data centers.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Apple's models are just not good enough to begin with.

00:48:01 ◼   ► So what I want them to do is find a way to make it work.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Because I believe if we can shift more to local,

00:48:07 ◼   ► I think it's going to reduce a lot of the issues that people have with AI.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Quite rightly.

00:48:12 ◼   ► You know,

00:48:13 ◼   ► like then we're not going to be burning these data centers all day,

00:48:17 ◼   ► every day.

00:48:18 ◼   ► If people are using local models more often for more things than we're doing right now.

00:48:24 ◼   ► So I,

00:48:25 ◼   ► I don't know how you do this.

00:48:28 ◼   ► This feels like a very difficult thing to do,

00:48:31 ◼   ► but I want them to really push on this because I think it could make a big difference.

00:48:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:37 ◼   ► I'm up next.

00:48:38 ◼   ► It's to rebuild relationships with developers.

00:48:41 ◼   ► This spans the business deal with the app store.

00:48:45 ◼   ► Documentation,

00:48:47 ◼   ► which I'm the case he has talked about a good bit.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I ran into that headlong this week,

00:48:51 ◼   ► looking at something.

00:48:52 ◼   ► It's like,

00:48:52 ◼   ► why does document not say anything helpful?

00:48:54 ◼   ► And then accessibility to internal support at Apple.

00:48:58 ◼   ► If you have a question,

00:48:59 ◼   ► it can be hard to get it answered.

00:49:00 ◼   ► I think,

00:49:02 ◼   ► I think Apple's lost a lot of goodwill in that community and it would behoove them to get it back.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Can I just add to your list by saying the feedback system?

00:49:11 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Let's see.

00:49:12 ◼   ► That's good.

00:49:13 ◼   ► Deal with the feedback system.

00:49:14 ◼   ► If you're going to make us fill in feedbacks,

00:49:17 ◼   ► actually respond to them.

00:49:19 ◼   ► That's good.

00:49:21 ◼   ► I'm up next and a pretty simple one.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Launch smaller stranger products.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I think this is something that,

00:49:30 ◼   ► that we've been saying for a while.

00:49:32 ◼   ► And also Mike and Jason have been saying this on Upgrade.

00:49:35 ◼   ► every launch from Apple has to be a big deal.

00:49:39 ◼   ► And,

00:49:40 ◼   ► and I understand why.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Like everything needs to be a massive success because they're the biggest tech company on earth.

00:49:47 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean that they cannot try and,

00:49:51 ◼   ► and have,

00:49:52 ◼   ► you know,

00:49:53 ◼   ► I don't really know how they can potentially present a product by saying this is something that we're trying.

00:50:01 ◼   ► But I think I,

00:50:02 ◼   ► exactly.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Like that's,

00:50:05 ◼   ► I'm,

00:50:06 ◼   ► I'm,

00:50:07 ◼   ► I'm not being silly.

00:50:08 ◼   ► It's like,

00:50:08 ◼   ► that was just like,

00:50:09 ◼   ► here's a weird little thing we're doing.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Don't even worry about it.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And I think if you own it,

00:50:14 ◼   ► I think we've seen lately from,

00:50:16 ◼   ► from,

00:50:16 ◼   ► for example,

00:50:17 ◼   ► from,

00:50:17 ◼   ► from open AI,

00:50:18 ◼   ► it's not unusual for open AI to say,

00:50:20 ◼   ► Hey,

00:50:20 ◼   ► this is something that we're trying.

00:50:22 ◼   ► We're not sure where it's going to go,

00:50:23 ◼   ► but here's this thing.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:26 ◼   ► And I'm not sure.

00:50:27 ◼   ► I mean,

00:50:27 ◼   ► obviously Apple is more judicious than any AI company really,

00:50:32 ◼   ► but I would love to see Apple kind of own the idea of here's this product.

00:50:38 ◼   ► here's this accessory.

00:50:38 ◼   ► It's very different from something we've done before.

00:50:43 ◼   ► And we want to see how it goes.

00:50:44 ◼   ► like that kind of honesty.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So it's,

00:50:49 ◼   ► it's,

00:50:49 ◼   ► it will be different from the kind of hyper polished image that we've gotten from Apple for the past decade or so.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:51:00 ◼   ► It goes back to that idea of,

00:51:02 ◼   ► I was half joking when I said,

00:51:04 ◼   ► let Apple have a dangerous CEO,

00:51:06 ◼   ► like in that sense,

00:51:07 ◼   ► like a more of a kindred spirit,

00:51:09 ◼   ► so to speak,

00:51:10 ◼   ► you know,

00:51:10 ◼   ► like a,

00:51:10 ◼   ► like a,

00:51:11 ◼   ► a different person that is willing to take risks,

00:51:15 ◼   ► even when it comes to announcing products to the public,

00:51:19 ◼   ► I would be fun to see.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:51:23 ◼   ► I mean,

00:51:24 ◼   ► I feel like this is the,

00:51:25 ◼   ► you know,

00:51:25 ◼   ► the idea of not everything has to be a platform.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Some things can just be accessories.

00:51:32 ◼   ► Like they can play off the existing platform that you already have with the iPhone.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I mean,

00:51:39 ◼   ► unfortunately they,

00:51:40 ◼   ► they seem to have been trying that with the home pod with a screen product,

00:51:43 ◼   ► but then,

00:51:44 ◼   ► yeah,

00:51:44 ◼   ► but then there were other problems that have stopped that thing from shipping,

00:51:48 ◼   ► but that feels like the right approach.

00:51:50 ◼   ► Um,

00:51:51 ◼   ► then like trying to build an app store for everything.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:54 ◼   ► It's good.

00:51:55 ◼   ► Mine.

00:51:56 ◼   ► We,

00:51:57 ◼   ► we spoke about a couple of weeks ago,

00:51:58 ◼   ► highlight again,

00:51:59 ◼   ► like take a long,

00:52:00 ◼   ► hard look at software quality,

00:52:01 ◼   ► please.

00:52:02 ◼   ► What's going on there.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Stuff like just,

00:52:04 ◼   ► just like a lot of these weird,

00:52:06 ◼   ► strange products,

00:52:07 ◼   ► Federico,

00:52:07 ◼   ► you want,

00:52:08 ◼   ► which I also want.

00:52:09 ◼   ► that's a really good job for John.

00:52:11 ◼   ► Um,

00:52:12 ◼   ► it seems like a lot of stuff at least recently has been held back by the software side of

00:52:17 ◼   ► the,

00:52:17 ◼   ► of the organization.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And that's a little disappointing.

00:52:19 ◼   ► Yep.

00:52:20 ◼   ► I'm up next again.

00:52:22 ◼   ► I mentioned this before.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Uh,

00:52:25 ◼   ► kind of a similar idea.

00:52:27 ◼   ► John,

00:52:28 ◼   ► bring back the live events,

00:52:30 ◼   ► please.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Enough with the videos.

00:52:34 ◼   ► I get,

00:52:34 ◼   ► I get why you started with the videos necessary.

00:52:38 ◼   ► I get that.

00:52:39 ◼   ► I get that they're cheaper to produce,

00:52:41 ◼   ► but now,

00:52:41 ◼   ► and I think I said this a couple of weeks ago on the show.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Well,

00:52:45 ◼   ► yeah,

00:52:47 ◼   ► nothing is cheap,

00:52:48 ◼   ► especially for Apple,

00:52:49 ◼   ► but still like,

00:52:50 ◼   ► especially now,

00:52:52 ◼   ► I think,

00:52:52 ◼   ► uh,

00:52:53 ◼   ► people are seeking the kind of personal touch from the tech industry,

00:53:01 ◼   ► um,

00:53:02 ◼   ► as a response to AI and the fears around AI.

00:53:07 ◼   ► And I think there's something about a not hyper polished live event that brings

00:53:14 ◼   ► back that kind of human touch.

00:53:16 ◼   ► And especially you,

00:53:17 ◼   ► John,

00:53:18 ◼   ► as a product person that could really give a feel of Apple is back with a

00:53:25 ◼   ► person at the top that cares about products,

00:53:28 ◼   ► has been making products and can tell you a story about those products live on

00:53:35 ◼   ► a stage without anything quote unquote fake around it as in a pre-produced

00:53:40 ◼   ► super polished video.

00:53:42 ◼   ► And there's something to that idea of the human touch live on stage mistakes and

00:53:47 ◼   ► all,

00:53:47 ◼   ► because that's part of what humans do on a stage every once in a while they

00:53:51 ◼   ► screw up and that's fine because I think in a way it kind of adds,

00:53:56 ◼   ► um,

00:53:56 ◼   ► that touch of delight and whimsy that,

00:54:02 ◼   ► you know,

00:54:02 ◼   ► uh,

00:54:03 ◼   ► to quote,

00:54:04 ◼   ► to quote the masterful Noel Gallagher,

00:54:07 ◼   ► true perfection has to be imperfect.

00:54:10 ◼   ► And so bring back the live events.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:14 ◼   ► I mean,

00:54:15 ◼   ► my final one actually is,

00:54:16 ◼   ► is hand in hand with yours,

00:54:18 ◼   ► Federico.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Uh,

00:54:20 ◼   ► John,

00:54:21 ◼   ► do a good podcast interview,

00:54:24 ◼   ► like a long one,

00:54:25 ◼   ► sit down with someone,

00:54:26 ◼   ► talk for a couple of hours or whatever.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Let's hear you in conversation,

00:54:30 ◼   ► show what makes you tick.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Like,

00:54:32 ◼   ► you know,

00:54:33 ◼   ► go on the talk show,

00:54:34 ◼   ► although you should come to us,

00:54:35 ◼   ► but you know,

00:54:36 ◼   ► like do something like that.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Come on connected.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Come on connected.

00:54:39 ◼   ► You know,

00:54:39 ◼   ► you'll have a good time with us.

00:54:40 ◼   ► We'll play a game.

00:54:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:42 ◼   ► We'll talk about you being in a race car,

00:54:43 ◼   ► but like show us who you are,

00:54:46 ◼   ► right?

00:54:46 ◼   ► Like go and do something that is a little bit more raw and have a,

00:54:50 ◼   ► have a conversation with someone for a bit.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Let's,

00:54:52 ◼   ► let's kind of see who you are as a person.

00:54:54 ◼   ► No,

00:54:54 ◼   ► no.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Have a conversation with us.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Not with us.

00:54:56 ◼   ► With us specifically.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Tell us where you come from.

00:54:59 ◼   ► What were you into as a kid?

00:55:01 ◼   ► You know,

00:55:02 ◼   ► like video games.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Did you like video games?

00:55:05 ◼   ► Do you go to concerts?

00:55:06 ◼   ► All this stuff.

00:55:07 ◼   ► I mean,

00:55:08 ◼   ► what?

00:55:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:09 ◼   ► It's great.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:11 ◼   ► We need some humanity up there.

00:55:13 ◼   ► I think this episode of connected is brought to you by fundera powered by

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00:57:23 ◼   ► I've done a thing, boys.

00:57:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Oh, this is me reading the title of the section.

00:57:32 ◼   ► I have become a home assistant person.

00:57:36 ◼   ► Why would you do this to us?

00:57:37 ◼   ► Why?

00:57:37 ◼   ► Because I'm, well, because I'm friends with Casey Liss and he, he drug me into this.

00:57:43 ◼   ► You can be friends with Casey without being dragged into Casey things.

00:57:47 ◼   ► That's true, but difficult.

00:57:49 ◼   ► The really started because I needed to solve a smart home issue I was having.

00:57:55 ◼   ► And I've just got to point something out real quick.

00:57:58 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:57:59 ◼   ► I've gone to the home assistant website.

00:58:00 ◼   ► It says home assistant 2026.5.0.

00:58:03 ◼   ► I know it's bad.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:04 ◼   ► Don't, don't.

00:58:05 ◼   ► They're doing it.

00:58:06 ◼   ► I know.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Casey does it with a call sheet too.

00:58:09 ◼   ► It hurts me.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I know.

00:58:11 ◼   ► So I needed to solve an issue, which I will get to, but just very briefly before everyone

00:58:17 ◼   ► quits the podcast, I'm going to do a little overview of home assistant.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Cause I, I was confused.

00:58:21 ◼   ► Very briefly you said, do I need to put you on a timer?

00:58:24 ◼   ► No, please don't.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:26 ◼   ► I didn't, cause I wasn't really aware of like where it fit.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Cause it's different than home bridge, like home bridge, which actually just got updated

00:58:32 ◼   ► this week to support matter devices, which is cool.

00:58:36 ◼   ► It's home bridge is like a shim.

00:58:38 ◼   ► So you can get non home kit accessories into home kit, right?

00:58:43 ◼   ► Home bridge is like a one way funnel basically for that sort of thing.

00:58:46 ◼   ► For instance, at my old house, my home alarm did not have any awareness of home kit, but

00:58:53 ◼   ► it did work with home bridge.

00:58:54 ◼   ► And so I could pipe my home alarm system into home kit via home bridge around a Mac mini

00:59:00 ◼   ► and it broke all the time.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Steven, you're losing me.

00:59:02 ◼   ► You're saying home too much.

00:59:04 ◼   ► I can't, I'm already struggling to keep track of what's wrong.

00:59:06 ◼   ► So home assistant, should we call it HA?

00:59:08 ◼   ► Home assistant?

00:59:09 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Just stop talking about competing things.

00:59:12 ◼   ► Mike, it's only going to get worse.

00:59:14 ◼   ► It is.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Wait till I tell you about the two home kit plugins for home assistant.

00:59:19 ◼   ► No.

00:59:21 ◼   ► So home assistant is an open source smart home and home automation platform.

00:59:29 ◼   ► So it is independent, like home bridge exists to serve home kit more or less.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Home assistant is like its own thing.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Like people who don't have a single Apple product can use home assistant.

00:59:42 ◼   ► And because it's open source, you get a lot of flexibility.

00:59:45 ◼   ► It can run on basically anything like a raspberry pi.

00:59:49 ◼   ► It can run directly on a bunch of operating systems.

00:59:52 ◼   ► You put in a virtual machine.

00:59:53 ◼   ► I'm running it on what's called a home assistant green, which is a little.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:59:58 ◼   ► It's like, I think it's raspberry pi based.

01:00:00 ◼   ► I bought it.

01:00:00 ◼   ► It's a, it's a pie.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:01 ◼   ► I bought it like two years ago and it was literally in a box on the shelf.

01:00:05 ◼   ► And then I got it out for this.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Um, cause I, we actually, we were going to do an NPU episode about home assistant and I

01:00:11 ◼   ► kind of, the outline kind of just didn't ever go anywhere.

01:00:13 ◼   ► So I had the hardware, but didn't use it until now.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Um, also because it's open source, it has a wild amount of integrations.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Um, and so it can plug into other ecosystems natively.

01:00:29 ◼   ► So like Mike, you and I both have a lot of a car stuff around our houses, right?

01:00:33 ◼   ► Um, you just tell it, Hey, I have a bunch of a car stuff and it finds your hub and it, and

01:00:38 ◼   ► it can talk to everything a car.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Uh, same thing with the Lutron cassette of light switches and Yolink, which is a bunch

01:00:47 ◼   ► of, um, I use their leak detection sensors.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And what's cool about Yolink is they have extremely long range.

01:00:54 ◼   ► I was having trouble.

01:00:56 ◼   ► Um, the attic of my house is like completely lined in metal backed, like foil backed insulation.

01:01:04 ◼   ► And my, what I was using previously, I guess they were using matter.

01:01:11 ◼   ► I don't really remember, but those water sensors dropped off the network all the time because

01:01:16 ◼   ► the radios weren't strong enough and Yolink are.

01:01:19 ◼   ► And so I have a bunch of those around, um, and it's open source.

01:01:23 ◼   ► So there's also like community projects.

01:01:25 ◼   ► So like me, Ross, I have their garage door opener.

01:01:27 ◼   ► I could pipe in through a third, like an open source third party community project.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Um, you fee smart vacuums, a whole bunch of stuff.

01:01:36 ◼   ► So it's a, it's its own world.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Like you don't have to have anything Apple.

01:01:42 ◼   ► You don't have to have Apple home or an Apple TV or anything to run this.

01:01:46 ◼   ► And I think most people who have home assistant, or at least a lot of people who use it aren't

01:01:51 ◼   ► Apple people.

01:01:51 ◼   ► They, they are Android PC Linux type of people who want to do this, um, separate of any ecosystem.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And a benefit of that is a lot of the stuff can be done locally.

01:02:03 ◼   ► A lot of the stuff with home assistant doesn't require a trip to the cloud.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Now that varies depending on your exact smart home devices and that sort of stuff.

01:02:12 ◼   ► But, um, it's popular for the, I'm a bit popular in air quotes.

01:02:17 ◼   ► Uh, it is around for those, those reasons.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Um, but if you have home kit, they have tools to bring devices from home kit into assistant

01:02:28 ◼   ► and vice versa.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Um, so for instance, my yo link leak detection sensors, the yo link app is not good.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Um, it's very confusing as to what is actually happening sometimes.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Like when you're trying to set up notifications, but assistant can talk to your link and I can

01:02:50 ◼   ► set up notifications through there.

01:02:52 ◼   ► Um, so for instance, um, I have one of their, they have some outdoor gate openers and I have

01:03:02 ◼   ► one on one of the gates, uh, in my house and I want to be alerted if that gate is opened when

01:03:08 ◼   ► no one is home.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Like if we were home, it doesn't matter, right?

01:03:12 ◼   ► Probably one of the kids, maybe, you know, someone's watering or mowing the grass, like

01:03:16 ◼   ► we have to open it or whatever.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Um, but if I'm gone, I really want to know if that gate has been opened and yo link, cause

01:03:25 ◼   ► their app is bad.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Doesn't have any awareness of your location.

01:03:30 ◼   ► So you can't set up, Oh, alert me if I'm gone, but not if I'm home.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Well, I could do that really easily in assistant.

01:03:37 ◼   ► So that was one of the first things I did actually was solve that notification problem.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Um, and so you can also, so yeah, so you can sling things back and forth between home kit

01:03:47 ◼   ► and assistant as needed through a couple of their plugins.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Um, for me, everything that I have works in both.

01:03:58 ◼   ► And so I didn't have to do any of that, but what's nice about that is, is you have that

01:04:04 ◼   ► flexibility.

01:04:04 ◼   ► You could make assistant, like have everything there and just, then it just pass everything

01:04:09 ◼   ► to home kit and you don't have to manage anything in Apple's home app directly.

01:04:13 ◼   ► It also means that my family doesn't know I've done this because they just use the Apple

01:04:18 ◼   ► home app.

01:04:19 ◼   ► They're just using home pods and all that stuff still works exactly the way it did before I

01:04:24 ◼   ► started this.

01:04:25 ◼   ► Um, and so it lets me have more control and really why did it with some of the automation

01:04:31 ◼   ► stuff, but they don't have to see it.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Like I'm not running around putting the assistant app on everybody's phones.

01:04:37 ◼   ► Like they just use Apple home the way they always have, which is good.

01:04:42 ◼   ► It's what I wanted.

01:04:42 ◼   ► I don't want them to have everyone would take that so kindly if you did that to them.

01:04:46 ◼   ► They would not.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Um, no.

01:04:48 ◼   ► And like the kids, they have a limited access to Apple home.

01:04:53 ◼   ► Like they can do some things in it, but not everything.

01:04:56 ◼   ► And you could do that in assistant, but it'd be really fiddly and home makes it really easy

01:05:01 ◼   ► to like add a guest and just tell them, you know, okay, you can open the garage door and

01:05:06 ◼   ► do these lights, but you can't do these other things.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Um, so for me, it really was the, um, the automation engine is what drove me to this.

01:05:18 ◼   ► One of my examples was that yo link notification issue.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Um, but the other was something very specific in my garage.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And this is where Casey comes in because Casey loves his garage.

01:05:31 ◼   ► He, he backs both of their cars into it very proudly.

01:05:34 ◼   ► If you've ever seen a photo, um, and he loves home automation.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I was like, great.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Casey's the person I need to talk to.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Um, I have, I wanted the overhead light in my garage to stay on for a set amount of time

01:05:46 ◼   ► after activity in the garage.

01:05:48 ◼   ► So come on automatically when the garage door goes up or if the door between the garage

01:05:53 ◼   ► and the house is opened.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Okay.

01:05:54 ◼   ► That's easy, but I want you to turn off after 30 minutes.

01:05:58 ◼   ► HomeKit can do that.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Uh, if you're putting an automation in the home app, there is a setting like turn light

01:06:05 ◼   ► off after X amount of time.

01:06:08 ◼   ► The problem I was running into is that home kit seemed to get confused when like multiple

01:06:15 ◼   ► things were happening in that 30 minute window.

01:06:18 ◼   ► So the garage door goes up and then someone goes from the garage into the house.

01:06:23 ◼   ► What sets the 30 minute thing?

01:06:26 ◼   ► That's not a big deal.

01:06:27 ◼   ► That's probably only 90 seconds in between the two.

01:06:29 ◼   ► It doesn't really matter.

01:06:30 ◼   ► But what happens if I'm 27 minutes into the timer and something happens like, should it

01:06:35 ◼   ► reset?

01:06:36 ◼   ► Should it not?

01:06:36 ◼   ► And I found it to be inconsistent and that was frustrating because then you'd like be in

01:06:41 ◼   ► the garage and the light would turn off unexpectedly or when it come on the way that you expect it

01:06:46 ◼   ► to, or like it'd be on in the middle of the night.

01:06:48 ◼   ► Um, and I had tried solving this with, have you guys played with like the presence detectors?

01:06:55 ◼   ► Like they're more than motion.

01:06:56 ◼   ► They can actually detect if someone is.

01:06:58 ◼   ► No, I haven't.

01:06:59 ◼   ► John has one.

01:07:00 ◼   ► The millimeter wave ones or whatever?

01:07:02 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:02 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:03 ◼   ► I haven't, but cause I don't know what I was using them for.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Plus a lot of them until very recently had to be like wired all the time.

01:07:10 ◼   ► It's like, where would I even put this thing and have the wire dangling around?

01:07:14 ◼   ► So no, but I know that they're battery.

01:07:16 ◼   ► They have battery ones now too.

01:07:18 ◼   ► They do.

01:07:18 ◼   ► And in fact, I tried one of their battery ones.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Um, and I tried a Yolink, uh, uh, presence detector.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Cause my initial thought was, okay, when the door opens, turn the light on.

01:07:30 ◼   ► Like it's just a good, like base, base level.

01:07:34 ◼   ► Um, uh, the, but what happens if you're like in the garage and I wanted the light to stay

01:07:43 ◼   ► on if you were in there.

01:07:45 ◼   ► And what I found again, just my experience was that the presence detectors didn't work

01:07:51 ◼   ► very well in the garage.

01:07:52 ◼   ► I think, um, because if a vehicle was in there, a two car garage, like say that one car is

01:08:01 ◼   ► there, but I'm working on the other side of the garage, like, you know, fixing a shelf

01:08:04 ◼   ► or, or working out or something.

01:08:06 ◼   ► It would get, I think having a car there, like just made it difficult for it to get a sense

01:08:12 ◼   ► of what was going on.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And so you would be in the garage and the light would turn off because it said, oh,

01:08:17 ◼   ► there's no one in here.

01:08:18 ◼   ► I just turned this light off.

01:08:20 ◼   ► I saved some energy.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Um, as this was all very frustrating to me, it was very frustrating to my family.

01:08:26 ◼   ► And as, as all of you know, smart home stuff is fine until it annoys the people you live

01:08:32 ◼   ► with and then it's bad, right?

01:08:35 ◼   ► You can't, that's a line you should not, um, um, you should not cross.

01:08:42 ◼   ► And so what ended up with an, an assistant, this is like a small example.

01:08:47 ◼   ► One reason I've really come to enjoy setting it up and using it is that assistant has the,

01:08:53 ◼   ► has the, the, the ins and outs for automation in home assistant blow away anything else that

01:09:02 ◼   ► I've seen.

01:09:03 ◼   ► Uh, the home app is very basic in terms of ins and outs and that meets a lot of needs.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Like it's, it's good that it's basic, but if you need to go further, you can, you

01:09:12 ◼   ► kind of run into issues.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Um, there is an app called home plus six, uh, version six it's in the app store and they

01:09:19 ◼   ► do a good job of, of surfacing some of this stuff in a very Apple like way.

01:09:23 ◼   ► But, uh, what is nice about assistant is that you can do things like timers.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And so I have, okay, the door opens, the light turns on, but also you're starting a 30 minute

01:09:36 ◼   ► timer.

01:09:37 ◼   ► And so that is what's in control of when the light turns off.

01:09:42 ◼   ► And if a door is reopened, then the timer restarts.

01:09:47 ◼   ► And it's very simple to see and control what's happening.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I'm not, I'm not, I don't have two timers racing each other to the finish line.

01:09:55 ◼   ► It's just one that both these automations talk to and set.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Um, I mentioned the Yolink thing.

01:10:01 ◼   ► Um, one that I am working on, I actually had to buy a new sensor for this is, okay, like

01:10:07 ◼   ► my porch lights come on an hour or two before sunset, right?

01:10:11 ◼   ► It's pretty straightforward, but I would like them to come on if it's dark outside.

01:10:16 ◼   ► So if it's a really overcast day or it's getting ready to thunderstorm, like I would actually

01:10:22 ◼   ► find it beneficial for my porch lights to be on in those situations.

01:10:26 ◼   ► And so I have this little like matter, uh, luck sensor coming and I think Eve makes it and

01:10:34 ◼   ► it works with assistant and I can tell it, okay, out of all the things this sensor knows

01:10:40 ◼   ► about, I just want to look, they call it an entity.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I just want to look at just the light outside, like not the humidity, not the temperature, just

01:10:46 ◼   ► the light and build an automation off of that.

01:10:50 ◼   ► Um, it's fiddly, but it's really powerful.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Um, and I'm having fun with it and my family doesn't know and I'm not ruining their lives.

01:10:57 ◼   ► So that's all good.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Anyone still there?

01:11:01 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I'm still here.

01:11:03 ◼   ► I mean, again, I, I struggle to get my head around some of this stuff, um, because it's so

01:11:10 ◼   ► complicated.

01:11:10 ◼   ► And also I have like a real problem with home assistant.

01:11:15 ◼   ► I know it's not what you're, wait, home bridge.

01:11:17 ◼   ► I have one of them.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I think I had home bridge and it just completely failed for me.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:22 ◼   ► Bridge I found to be pretty fragile.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:24 ◼   ► But home assistant, you'd like more.

01:11:26 ◼   ► So really it's, you want to do more complex automations than home kit is going to allow

01:11:34 ◼   ► with devices that don't necessarily tie into home kit anyway.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Right?

01:11:39 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:11:41 ◼   ► And you can tie these things together in more ways with, with the automation.

01:11:47 ◼   ► Um, and I think, so they, they, they, uh, are these automations ever running through your

01:11:55 ◼   ► Apple devices?

01:11:55 ◼   ► They can.

01:11:57 ◼   ► So you can set the location of your phone to be a trigger.

01:12:02 ◼   ► So, right.

01:12:04 ◼   ► And you can do that in the home app, right?

01:12:06 ◼   ► In fact, that's one thing the home app's really good at of like when the first person gets home

01:12:09 ◼   ► or the last person leaves, do these things.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Um, but you can also, if the home assistant iOS app is installed on the phone, you can use

01:12:19 ◼   ► its background location as a trigger, just like you can in home kit.

01:12:23 ◼   ► So, but like essentially what you've got here is an operating system for the disparate devices.

01:12:34 ◼   ► It's not like, could you say like, I think, I think I'm starting to get my head around the

01:12:40 ◼   ► difference with home bridge.

01:12:44 ◼   ► You are bringing non home kit stuff into the home app on your iPhone.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Correct.

01:12:50 ◼   ► But on home assistant, you have a specific device that is talking to all of these things on its

01:12:56 ◼   ► own.

01:12:57 ◼   ► That's right.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Okay.

01:12:59 ◼   ► And do you have home kit devices in your home assistant as well?

01:13:07 ◼   ► So I have everything set up in both say that there was a conflict of each other.

01:13:13 ◼   ► They don't.

01:13:13 ◼   ► In fact, if you like, say I turn a light switch on an assistant, it not only turns the light

01:13:20 ◼   ► on, but the home app responds instantly that it's on.

01:13:22 ◼   ► There's no, at least you're selling me on this.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Good.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Um, pray for Dina.

01:13:28 ◼   ► The, um, I don't have, I'm good.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Like I don't, I don't think I have needs.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Sure.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Uh, not yet.

01:13:36 ◼   ► You, the, the, the longer you're a dad, the more needs you have.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Um, the, just like a general statement.

01:13:42 ◼   ► It really is.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Um, the, uh, for, so if you had a device that was only for some reason, only supported home

01:13:52 ◼   ► kit, like a lot of older devices, right?

01:13:53 ◼   ► Remember back in the day is like, I bought this plug cause it works with Amazon, but then

01:13:58 ◼   ► I got a home pod.

01:13:59 ◼   ► I have to not use that switch anymore.

01:14:00 ◼   ► Like that sucked.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Most of that stuff's gone, but there are, there's still pockets.

01:14:04 ◼   ► I think of smart home things that are really designed for one ecosystem.

01:14:07 ◼   ► There's a, you can pull in home kit devices to assistant if you want them there as well.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Does it support matter?

01:14:17 ◼   ► It does support matter, supports thread, and it supports, uh, Zigbee and Z-Wave as well.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Those I think have kind of fallen out of style a little bit, at least with the stuff I'm using.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Um, not a car, a car is all, um, they all, the, a car is new stuff is matter.

01:14:34 ◼   ► Um, but they're still using that.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:14:38 ◼   ► It's like matter over Zigbee or something or over Z-Wave.

01:14:41 ◼   ► So it's basically some of their stuff is thread, but some of their like sensors are still communicating

01:14:49 ◼   ► to the hub, which I think is either Zigbee or Z-Wave.

01:14:51 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:51 ◼   ► Cause like some, some matter products cannot be added to home kit.

01:14:56 ◼   ► That's right.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Unless you have a hub.

01:14:57 ◼   ► That's right.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Um, and for me, my car stuff, like home doesn't seize the hub.

01:15:03 ◼   ► And so it's, it's communicating through the hub, but already had it right.

01:15:06 ◼   ► It was, you know, there is definitely some, some shifting sands when it comes to some of

01:15:11 ◼   ► these standards.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Um, but, uh, hopefully, um, hopefully that's getting sort of settled out now.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Um, well, I mean, this is not how I thought it was going to go, this conversation.

01:15:24 ◼   ► I mean, I'm a little bit more like I understand it a little bit more.

01:15:28 ◼   ► I think I just, I had such a bad experience with home bridge, uh, that I think I kind of

01:15:34 ◼   ► just like, um, tarred all of these things with the same brush where this does sound a little

01:15:41 ◼   ► bit more friendly, I think.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:45 ◼   ► I mean, it can get complicated quickly.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Like one thing I sort of had to wrap my head head around was, uh, like my echo B thermostats,

01:15:55 ◼   ► they set the temperature, they set the fan control and all that stuff, but they also know the

01:16:01 ◼   ► temperature and humidity and presence in the room that they're in.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And Apple home doesn't really have a, a meaningful way to do anything with those things.

01:16:11 ◼   ► Like it shows you all that data, but in assistant, you could say, okay, when the humidity, for

01:16:16 ◼   ► instance, if, when the humidity at this thermostat hits this point, do these other things.

01:16:21 ◼   ► And so you can pull out like individual pieces of data from these devices and, and do things

01:16:28 ◼   ► with them, which is really flexible, but it's also kind of overwhelming.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Like you, you look at your list of like all the data this knows about your home.

01:16:35 ◼   ► It's like, there's a lot of stuff in here that I will never need or touch.

01:16:38 ◼   ► It's cool that it's there, I guess, if I want to go see it, but that is sort of the downside.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Like this is a full blown operating system in many ways.

01:16:46 ◼   ► Like it is, it can be extremely complicated.

01:16:49 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be to start with.

01:16:50 ◼   ► And I'm sure over time I will build more complexity.

01:16:53 ◼   ► That's probably inevitable, but I, I, I was surprised and pleased that it was relatively

01:17:00 ◼   ► easy to sort of set up a base level of stuff really just in a couple of hours, you know,

01:17:05 ◼   ► clicking around at Chrome and is that how you interact with it mostly in Chrome?

01:17:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:11 ◼   ► So I've got the iOS app on the phone, um, which is totally fine.

01:17:15 ◼   ► It looks like the home app and you can actually like put buttons where you want them and stuff.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Um, but as far as like the management and like building the automations, I've just found it

01:17:22 ◼   ► easier.

01:17:22 ◼   ► Um, so it gets an internal IP address and then you can access it from the outside if, if you,

01:17:28 ◼   ► uh, set that up.

01:17:30 ◼   ► And so, yeah, just doing it in the browser is, is, is the primary way.

01:17:34 ◼   ► But if you, do you need to interact with any of the devices or are they all just like

01:17:38 ◼   ► sensors and stuff?

01:17:39 ◼   ► So the devices that you have in home assistant or any of them like specific things that need

01:17:46 ◼   ► your attention, you know, like if you were shutting a blind or whatever, right?

01:17:49 ◼   ► Uh, I mean, yeah, like I, I can like go into assistant, like turn a light switch off, but

01:17:55 ◼   ► I could also do that in your home app.

01:17:56 ◼   ► You're not doing that with the things that you have?

01:17:59 ◼   ► Not currently.

01:18:00 ◼   ► I'm still, I'm still basically using Apple's home app for that because I think it looks

01:18:04 ◼   ► a little bit nicer, but you certainly could do it either way.

01:18:07 ◼   ► Some of the stuff you have in home assistant doesn't show in the home app though, right?

01:18:10 ◼   ► Some of like the automations don't like they're, they're in a home app from, from an automation

01:18:16 ◼   ► standpoint.

01:18:17 ◼   ► If assistant does something, all home kit sees is, Oh, this device changed state.

01:18:22 ◼   ► It doesn't know why it did or like what caused it.

01:18:25 ◼   ► Um, but I haven't run into any conflicts with that either.

01:18:28 ◼   ► It really, the, the joining of the two really is, I, I really thought maybe it used to be

01:18:34 ◼   ► this way.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Maybe I was just had a bad understanding was like, Oh, I'm going to have to like ditch

01:18:38 ◼   ► Apple home and like move my family to this.

01:18:41 ◼   ► And you don't absolutely do not have to do that.

01:18:43 ◼   ► at least the level I'm playing it.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And do you have anything like that's super different?

01:18:53 ◼   ► Like, so like a ring system or whatever inside of here?

01:18:56 ◼   ► Uh, I put my entire unified network into it for a couple, a couple of reasons.

01:19:04 ◼   ► Um, one, I could have it set up.

01:19:09 ◼   ► I think you can do this in Unify, but I've never found a way to do it.

01:19:13 ◼   ► Or at least do it.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Well, I could have like, when this device shows up on my network, send me a notification

01:19:18 ◼   ► or if my, um, so like we're talking with Casey, some of his location stuff is, is also dependent

01:19:27 ◼   ► on where Aaron's phone is, but home assistant is not even on her phone.

01:19:31 ◼   ► How he's doing it is, is Aaron's phone on my network?

01:19:35 ◼   ► Then she's at home.

01:19:35 ◼   ► Then that's a trigger.

01:19:37 ◼   ► Um, and also I guess kind of wanted to see what it would expose.

01:19:40 ◼   ► Like, am I doing anything meaningful with Unify inside of assistant?

01:19:44 ◼   ► Not really, but it's interesting that it's there and it could be something that I, uh, rely on

01:19:51 ◼   ► more.

01:19:52 ◼   ► Like if I wanted to do location stuff with the kids phones, I probably wouldn't put assistant

01:19:56 ◼   ► on their phones, but I could do it with, Hey, are you on the wifi?

01:19:59 ◼   ► Then it's probably safe bet that you're here.

01:20:01 ◼   ► What about your Roomba?

01:20:03 ◼   ► Um, the, uh, I actually switched to a Yuffie.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Um, Oh, you did?

01:20:09 ◼   ► I did.

01:20:10 ◼   ► We wanted one that mopped and it was like, as it, as that was happening as Roomba was like

01:20:16 ◼   ► going out of business and it was very uncertain what was happening.

01:20:18 ◼   ► And Sparks had a Yuffie that, uh, that they really liked.

01:20:22 ◼   ► And so do you like it?

01:20:24 ◼   ► I do like it.

01:20:24 ◼   ► Okay.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Um, and it shows up and, um, it, you don't have all the controls you have in the Yuffie

01:20:31 ◼   ► app.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Like I don't, I haven't found a way to be like, go clean just the kitchen.

01:20:34 ◼   ► You can do that in the Yuffie app, of course.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Um, but the Yuffie app is really rough and it's like, talk about something full of ads.

01:20:43 ◼   ► It's like my word.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Um, the Yuffie app's bad.

01:20:45 ◼   ► I had a Yuffie camera that I just had for a long time and we just used it when, uh,

01:20:51 ◼   ► it was one of those cameras that could move, you know, you could control it.

01:20:54 ◼   ► And we only set, we set it up when we were having a leak in, uh, the downstairs from the

01:21:01 ◼   ► bathroom and we were going on vacation.

01:21:04 ◼   ► And so we turned the water off, but we wanted to be able to like pan around to see if there

01:21:09 ◼   ► was any leaks.

01:21:10 ◼   ► Uh, but that's the only thing I ever used it for.

01:21:12 ◼   ► But I found the Yuffie app to be terrible.

01:21:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:17 ◼   ► It's pretty bad.

01:21:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:20 ◼   ► I'm still learning and I would love to like, if people are doing cool things with it, let

01:21:23 ◼   ► me know.

01:21:24 ◼   ► I'd love to hear what you're doing.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Cause it is like a whole world unto itself, which is, which is fun.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Well, thank you for the update.

01:21:32 ◼   ► You are welcome.

01:21:34 ◼   ► I mean, it's, it's no, uh, what have we been doing in the pro show?

01:21:39 ◼   ► Like the check-ins and sometimes that leads to purchases.

01:21:42 ◼   ► I don't feel like I've changed any of your lives, which is probably good.

01:21:44 ◼   ► No.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Well, unless I don't know, something happens now and, and, uh, my entire home network gets

01:21:52 ◼   ► destroyed and I have to start all over again.

01:21:54 ◼   ► There you go.

01:21:55 ◼   ► Well, that does it for this week.

01:21:58 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the things we spoke about, uh, they're in your podcast player.

01:22:02 ◼   ► They're also on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 602.

01:22:08 ◼   ► There's a link there to leave feedback or follow-up, uh, drop us a note.

01:22:12 ◼   ► You can make it anonymous.

01:22:13 ◼   ► You can make it rhyme.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Uh, I really would love to hear like cool home assistant tips and tricks.

01:22:19 ◼   ► Cause I'm having a lot of fun learning this stuff.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Um, you can also join and get connected pro, which is the longer and ad-free version of

01:22:26 ◼   ► the show that we do each and every week.

01:22:28 ◼   ► So every week we do an extra chapter at the beginning of the show.

01:22:30 ◼   ► Uh, this week we talked about, um, my apparent oblivious, obliviousness that Nintendo keeps

01:22:36 ◼   ► reinventing Star Fox.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Um, and the new one finally point is they're not reinventing it.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Just keep doing the same thing over and over.

01:22:44 ◼   ► They just keep putting better graphics on top of the same game.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Uh, so we talked about that.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Um, lots of great stuff in pro.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Of course it's ad free.

01:22:52 ◼   ► Um, and then we talk about titles and some other stuff at the end of the show, seven bucks

01:22:57 ◼   ► a month.

01:22:57 ◼   ► It's a great deal.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Go check that out.

01:22:59 ◼   ► If you want more of us, you can find us online.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Uh, Federico is, uh, the editor in chief of max stories.net, the esteemed award-winning

01:23:08 ◼   ► Wow.

01:23:09 ◼   ► Yes.

01:23:10 ◼   ► Journalistic output.

01:23:11 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:23:12 ◼   ► Max stories.net.

01:23:13 ◼   ► I don't know what I was doing there.

01:23:15 ◼   ► It fell apart.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:23:16 ◼   ► That works.

01:23:17 ◼   ► It is good.

01:23:17 ◼   ► I read it every day.

01:23:19 ◼   ► You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows here on relay.

01:23:22 ◼   ► I mean, connected is his best one, but he's on some others.

01:23:24 ◼   ► And, uh, you can see his blogging at the enthusiast.net and his work at cortex brand.

01:23:30 ◼   ► You can find my writing at five, 12 pixels.net.

01:23:35 ◼   ► I'll leave it like our sponsors this week, dog pops, Squarespace and Fundera until next time,

01:23:41 ◼   ► guys.

01:23:41 ◼   ► Say goodbye.

01:23:42 ◼   ► Adividechi.

01:23:44 ◼   ► Cheerio.

01:23:45 ◼   ► Bye, y'all.