The Accidental Tech Podcast

28: The Pit Of Irrelevance


  there's a review that keeps happening I think the person like updates it in some [TS]

  way or I don't know what they do but they asked the title is something along [TS]

  the lines of nine casi casi cy download option one star and i have in front of [TS]

  you would like one star and it basically says I can't handle Casey and I need to [TS]

  fast forward every time he talks we already do offer a nine Cassie download [TS]

  option it's the nine Casey download option there that's not coming [TS]

  feature already implemented last episode we talked about the time capsule and how [TS]

  that is or is not a acceptable way of backing things up in in John's lamented [TS]

  how network-based Time Machine backups are really crummy and the time capsule [TS]

  is a piece of junk and blah blah blah and somebody whose name I need to [TS]

  rediscover hold on let me fill the state air by mumbling cried out to come back [TS]

  to it any clearer fire it was whatevers in the follow-up yeah somebody posted a [TS]

  blog post and the title is time capsule back up versus Siracusa so immediately I [TS]

  was so quick [TS]

  subsection of that post several weeks / months ago my internal SSD suddenly died [TS]

  completely I hadn't made a clone backup or manually off-loaded the data since [TS]

  the morning I'd been working on them had many irretrievable projects that were [TS]

  lost except for the time capsule back up from thirty minutes before I went in the [TS]

  SSDI SSI and warranty when I got back a week later I booted up the new drive [TS]

  with a connected to the time capsule and asked if I wanted to restore from the [TS]

  comp time capsule and I said yes and went to bed when I woke up in the [TS]

  morning my baby was back the beauty of the time capsule is its fire and forget [TS]

  usability that are in some loyalty and i'm quoting and Casey was right my work [TS]

  I've just quit the podcast on in our would drop this Mike if it wasn't so [TS]

  darn expensive and chained to your desk and on a mountain [TS]

  been around for a long time like that products been around for a long time and [TS]

  in the beginning it got a bad reputation because Network Time Machine backups [TS]

  were terrible mostly for software reasons so right away out of the gate [TS]

  was like don't buy time capsule because it doesn't work and how much of that was [TS]

  the time capsules faltan how much of that was the network protocol error [TS]

  using Time Machine when I know but I get a bad rap but even after they fix the [TS]

  protocol I've heard from many many many people over the many years the time [TS]

  capsules been out and the story is not being good so I'm sure this person had a [TS]

  good experience and work finally doesn't work at all i mean they keep selling [TS]

  them right but in the grand scheme of things and all the feedback I received [TS]

  over the many many years it's decidedly negative for this product for both [TS]

  hardware and software reasons and it's better now than it was but I would still [TS]

  not recommend anybody buy one and that was nuclear Zen fire on Twitter like [TS]

  Marco said whose first name is Michael and that's all we know so thank you [TS]

  Michael for sending that in and for once in my life saying that I was right and [TS]

  john was wrong that's very exciting day was wrong about it does so you john [TS]

  Syracuse alright so how do you want to tackle the was only in the fall upon [TS]

  sorry I didn't really happen this week newswise it's really a mean bombers not [TS]

  looking at the file [TS]

  things in there this coming along one so buckle up kids let's start with bomber [TS]

  quick I think I think I don't know you know we we've joked a lot about how [TS]

  bomber has been performing pretty badly in a number of ways for four years but [TS]

  in fact as Ben Thompson the guy who writes trajectory show notes he he's a [TS]

  pretty awesome writer and thinker these days and he he actually spent some time [TS]

  Microsoft he's kind of weird how it works and he made a really good [TS]

  counterpoint to this week said basically that Steve Ballmer actually did a very [TS]

  good job with what he was kind of hired to do which is take the ship that Bill [TS]

  Gates you know kind of built when he was at the head and just keep it going and [TS]

  why was he hired to do that [TS]

  who decides that's when he was hired to do well you know we can argue with that [TS]

  but he did a part of his job extremely well which is he kept Microsoft going he [TS]

  made the more profitable he made them get more success in various business [TS]

  roles and and enterprise rules which is a massive part of the business so he did [TS]

  a lot of that well but he failed to do was push into any new markets and [TS]

  recognize the recognized new markets that he had to push into [TS]

  and almost almost all of his new initiatives that he was that that he [TS]

  tried to do over the years that were not related to the business and profits I'd [TS]

  almost almost everything he turns you on the product side was mostly a failure [TS]

  and [TS]

  but it's kinda hard to say you know the board let him keep his job all these [TS]

  years because he was doing I guess well enough for on the business and profit [TS]

  side of things so it's not like you know he wasn't necessarily like a complete [TS]

  buffoon all this time I would say the board is more to blame for keeping him [TS]

  in that long when it was obvious that a lot of major product direction changes [TS]

  were necessary I can't believe you're defending farmers like the only thing [TS]

  you could like any defensive bomber has to come down to defending short term [TS]

  thing over the long term it's like yeah and long-term screw the company but you [TS]

  know he wasn't that bad like really the board's fault for not firing him I get [TS]

  the board does share some of this plan but bottom line is you know if we look [TS]

  back and I'm Steve Ballmer's 10 years Microsoft CEO is going to be he was the [TS]

  guy in charge of microsoft lost like they were they were the big dog they [TS]

  became not the big dog he oversaw that and during the whole time it's not like [TS]

  he likes I don't like him the total defense like he didn't see some of these [TS]

  things but as you said every every time something was coming it was a threat [TS]

  then he tried to counter it with his company and its products [TS]

  turn up he felt like the only good thing that could be attributed to his watches [TS]

  the Xbox and even that is not you know that you had to say like milk and a new [TS]

  product area they were successful in maybe not totally financially successful [TS]

  but there are now a player you know a major player in the market and that's [TS]

  saying something right but every other initiatives like that just missed [TS]

  everything like so in the micro level saying well he was good at tuning their [TS]

  current businesses and he kept the money going and he grew the company did all [TS]

  this year but this is a matter like you know what matters is like whether what [TS]

  is your legacy what have you done to you you took control company that was on top [TS]

  of the world and you leave a company that's practically irrelevant and that's [TS]

  how you have to measure you know how good a job to do and no it's not not if [TS]

  you're out of your shareholder all you need to measure is are you getting more [TS]

  money and look at look at their stock price over his tenure to it is not great [TS]

  looking for a little while looking to grab [TS]

  you know when to come to our stock price and what is it now and that's after [TS]

  Apple getting slaughtered and the stock market so he didn't think he did any [TS]

  good for anybody except the people who knew well enough to sell when you gettin [TS]

  was good the stock rising stacking forever but anyway doesn't like if you [TS]

  don't think your job as CEO is not to just try to boost the stock price so [TS]

  people can invest in bailout like if you care about the company and surely he [TS]

  does because he was there from the beginning riders you care about the [TS]

  company you want to make sure that your life's work is to build this company and [TS]

  leave it you know better than you found it right and i think thats what he cared [TS]

  about and that's what we should care about what we measure someone is a CEO [TS]

  not whether that's like saying we're gonna measure someone's presidency by [TS]

  how many of their friends they got rich with contracts but government contracts [TS]

  during that tenure there is like well yeah you just hold these for the whole [TS]

  company country and Latta recognition a starter boy while he was president he [TS]

  got so many of his friends awesome government contracts all got rich that's [TS]

  not how you measure things no it's not how you measure present you mr. [TS]

  president or governor government by is the populations quality of life at least [TS]

  as good if not better than it was before that government came to office and [TS]

  similarly well similarly with corporation its are they making money [TS]

  and specifically are they making money for the people who own portions of the [TS]

  corporation I mean I agree with you to me was a smart but in the end of the day [TS]

  did he or did he not please the shareholders and make the money because [TS]

  arguably that is the only measure that really matters that mattered almost [TS]

  matters almost not at all that's that's not what matters certainly not Mr Steve [TS]

  Ballmer it's not what matters to anyone probably including Microsoft [TS]

  shareholders because if if shareholders as shareholders are not just just about [TS]

  to die in their money on a big weekend they also care about the long-term [TS]

  health of the company because you're buying shares like flip them in like two [TS]

  days or something you know it's a train in 15 seconds if you buy them you care [TS]

  about the long-term health of the company because you're gonna buy hold [TS]

  and hopefully they go up and sell later you don't want to go [TS]

  5% or 10% you want to double [TS]

  and Steve Ballmer did not make that happen is not making that happen and [TS]

  that's why I think this is a terrible measure of like a terrible way to look [TS]

  at things and it's it's really not i mean just look at the reason the board [TS]

  didn't fire me even they didn't look at it that way even the board of directors [TS]

  who think they're surely their care about shareholder value and everything [TS]

  that they kept him around because of personal relationships and thinking he [TS]

  was going to nothing as he said most of the right things like he saw the threat [TS]

  he tried to position the company to counter them he fielded products that [TS]

  are competitive with them as they all flopped right so it's not like it was [TS]

  totally oblivious he just he just didn't execute and it just you know he was slow [TS]

  he was wrong and he was just you know everything he did have problems but I [TS]

  think it's time to go I'm glad he's gone [TS]

  somebody could have no mercy yes but people could have been a lot better [TS]

  his worst problem you can look at his various feelings mean one of them is [TS]

  obviously you know not getting very well into most new markets especially in the [TS]

  consumer space one of them was just that he was so embarrassing in public so [TS]

  often I mean that I can really he really made himself and the company look stupid [TS]

  on a very frequent basis and I think though you know you can look at what [TS]

  Microsoft has done and not done in the last roughly twelve years thirteen or [TS]

  fourteen years you know since since around 2002 now and it's very obvious [TS]

  that Microsoft's greatest enemy has been itself not anybody else not Apple not [TS]

  Google its its greatest enemy has been itself and Microsoft is always even from [TS]

  before bomber been infamous for infighting and having the having [TS]

  divisions special office versus windows you have is these ridiculous you know in [TS]

  fighting groups that would really hurt the products that came out and the [TS]

  company but it seems like with bomber that al-qaida even worse like he he [TS]

  famously had the stack ranking system for the entire company all these [TS]

  performance reports in its like that that predates predicts embassy does it I [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  around for a long time ok it's it's possible that terrible for a long time [TS]

  in my right but you know it seems like bombers greatest failure over the years [TS]

  has really been like not fixing or making that worse or even making it [TS]

  worse you know Microsoft could do a lot of things they have a lot of smart [TS]

  people there they have a lot of resources I mean they they have a [TS]

  ridiculous R&D budget they have ridiculous staff they had a lot of good [TS]

  stuff happens within Microsoft but so little of it ends up making it into the [TS]

  products because it's just it's just slaughtered by the process and the and [TS]

  the bureaucracy and the people on the strategy tax and the complexity maybe [TS]

  this giant reorganization he was trying to do work she must Microsoft watchers [TS]

  think is a pretty bad idea and it's probably would actually finally got him [TS]

  fired maybe this is actually his attempt to fix that [TS]

  aspirational sidebar wishes this is the company that Microsoft was but it's not [TS]

  and you know whatever it has like that's a great vision but explain to me how you [TS]

  can get from where you walk to there because that's a big gap and you know [TS]

  get there you know Microsoft kind of Delegates Xerox PARC panic selling [TS]

  copiers and they have less money and they made this research center in the [TS]

  dream lots of interesting research and they make nothing out of you know Apple [TS]

  took the idea did not become the power and the personal computing world that [TS]

  could have been a Microsoft had all this money from the PC business and they put [TS]

  into R&D in like they're out there with the you know Microsoft menu for Windows [TS]

  computing and how they were doing tablets way before anyone thought that [TS]

  entry and tablets and smartphones you know there are no windows on phones [TS]

  there they were doing all these things like it was all there for the taking and [TS]

  they just they just didn't the next Xerox like they were fielding $10,000 [TS]

  Alto computers announced by but it was closed [TS]

  you know like they kept making tablets and Windows type convertible tablet [TS]

  things and smartphones and just all of them are not good enough and so they [TS]

  were there first and they have the R&D and they had the tech amid lots of [TS]

  interesting things but they could not get a good product out of it that's the [TS]

  failure of the company's other companies came along and [TS]

  and their lunch but they were you know they snatch defeat from the jaws of [TS]

  victory that all the money in the world they aren't in the world all the right [TS]

  tech there were looking in the right places like sometimes a look at our [TS]

  interactive TV with their own place to look and MSNBC was shot outside shimon [TS]

  we have too much money I guess but they were looking in the right places mobile [TS]

  10 tablet computing the just didn't get there and I thought from the show gang [TS]

  was his post about bomber straitjacket was really interesting and and you you [TS]

  guys kind of alluded to this earlier in that ok so now bomber has said we're [TS]

  going to go all Apple and reorg the company and a moment's gone so now [TS]

  somebody else is gonna have to come in and either say oh just kidding or [TS]

  they're gonna have to roll with this decision the bomber made and that's a [TS]

  tough spot to an argument being the CEO of a company that big even when they're [TS]

  doing all this stuff when they're doing not so well as worse and doing it when [TS]

  you're using somebody else's playbook that you may not be buying into sounds [TS]

  worst of all new CEO has to play but that's the thing about being you CEO yet [TS]

  embarrassingly into the about-face but not that bad because a new guy comes in [TS]

  like that's the new guy comes in that people expect him to like well now he's [TS]

  really done to clean house or whatever and so your first move being reversing [TS]

  all your predecessors move happens all the time like that's that's part of like [TS]

  the power moves like asserting yourself so I don't think it's as big of a [TS]

  straight jacket is that post implied it into the problem was getting at is that [TS]

  like let's assume that this shape the bomber wants to make Microsoft is a [TS]

  better shape than it is now and I think most of us agree that the shape it is [TS]

  now is terrible and the new ship looks like Apple and Apple seems to be [TS]

  successful in doing the things that microsoft says it wants to do [TS]

  devices and services company or whatever it was like yeah okay that's good but [TS]

  you know how do you get there from here and it's it's not so much the year tied [TS]

  into bombers plan is that if you also agree that Microsoft should be that kind [TS]

  of company and it should eventually look like this now it's time you to figure [TS]

  out how to get it to some layout the goal like we should be more like a plan [TS]

  about here but reading too much into it as I i don't i don't know why you got [TS]

  kicked out was was was the reorganization his idea and he got [TS]

  kicked out with the realization the board's idea he just got to announce [TS]

  before he got kicked out like this so many things we don't know about the [TS]

  details here but once a new guy comes in all bets are off to do anything he could [TS]

  to get like that HBU what's-his-name certain aap yeah but he came into HP and [TS]

  likes it was like we're not gonna make personal computers anymore [TS]

  over to his house old Palmer him in like 15 rapid-fire drastic decisions and then [TS]

  got booted out and then like half of them got reversed and you're not looking [TS]

  for that kind of disaster here I think it's just like one thing and do the new [TS]

  guys going to say yes I agree with that vision for gonna try to get there and [TS]

  that poor sucker is you know gonna have to do the hard work but it's not a [TS]

  straight jacket if he comes in and says no but changed my mind gonna become like [TS]

  IBM and be consulting company then he'll do that [TS]

  p.m. the other series of interesting thoughts I saw about this was another [TS]

  friend of the show Craig Hockenberry tweeted about how I'm gonna put your [TS]

  what he said which was although brief very eloquent but he said you know what [TS]

  Microsoft needs now is a lugar's and as the child of a nearly lifelong IBM er i [TS]

  can tell you that IBM was in a really rough spot for a fair bit of time and [TS]

  then came in and basically said you know we're gonna shake everything up and [TS]

  we're really gonna cut the fat and you're just going to deal with it [TS]

  because I have to save the company and now iBM is not the biggest company in [TS]

  the world but certainly one of the biggest company in companies in the [TS]

  world it's doing by most measures very very well and so now we're kind of [TS]

  wondering okay well that's nice we know we need some of the looks and smells [TS]

  like her sister but how do you find that person who don't you think he saved IBM [TS]

  by destroying it [TS]

  we all know that the Deville the village had to be destroyed to save it like IBM [TS]

  the corporate entity to making it into a profitable business again but he [TS]

  destroyed the old IBM to do that like the old IBM was gone this is the new IBM [TS]

  because he decided to the old IBM had no place in the world I get a lot of things [TS]

  were lost but that like lots of you know IBM creator of the personal computer and [TS]

  you know like that that's not the IBM had said that they are more of a [TS]

  services company and that's that's how he was able to make them successful [TS]

  that's not what I'm used to be so in some ways IBM was reincarnated under his [TS]

  leadership which I'm sure Microsoft lawyers have fun going Microsoft is a [TS]

  lifeless corpse and owners interested it right but I don't think people if you're [TS]

  looking for Microsoft to return to its former glory [TS]

  you don't want someone like that coming in transforming the company into [TS]

  something you don't recognize anymore even if the new thing is successful and [TS]

  that's fair I think that's very fair it's I just thought it was a very [TS]

  interesting point parallel and I think you're both right I think that they [TS]

  could stand to have a gersner but maybe that's not what they really want right [TS]

  now maybe they don't want to get their brand trademark nice well I like Marco [TS]

  said you know they want to forestall they want like we we want to look like [TS]

  Apple we gonna be like Apple want to be like a cross between Apple and Google [TS]

  have like Google's online services like the Windows Azure stop or never because [TS]

  it still has good technique good products but just a shame when any [TS]

  company tech companies you know going down the tubes like there's there's [TS]

  always good stuff in it right so there are good things things are recommending [TS]

  Windows Phone is like you know it's not actually a bad product at all right it's [TS]

  just that an Xbox again you know a product that is something that could be [TS]

  something right so you're looking for someone to say take all these things get [TS]

  rid of the bad things but keep us as a company the kind of company that makes [TS]

  the Xbox the kind of company that makes Windows Azure the kind of countries make [TS]

  Windows Phone like we can do all these things were smart and capable people [TS]

  just make all those things successful now please and so if you want someone to [TS]

  do that and you're looking for someone with experience making kind of like we [TS]

  make devices by the software that runs mobile software and services like you [TS]

  could do worse than a four star like figure someone who has experience in [TS]

  another company that is successful doing exactly the thing that you want to be [TS]

  doing [TS]

  here's a weird idea what if Microsoft completely as at the consumer space so [TS]

  the way to say look could be Xbox would be spots into its own company which was [TS]

  a big problem for Microsoft is making it profitable that would be spun off or [TS]

  sold but probably spun off the rest of Microsoft would become a lot like IBM in [TS]

  that it would be focused on business computing and consulting and enterprise [TS]

  services if you think about it [TS]

  their consumer stuff is where all the losses appear to be happening in in [TS]

  market share and relevance and and probably in profits pretty soon you know [TS]

  the problem I forget who tweeted as I'm sorry somebody if all of which we had [TS]

  the problem Microsoft has is that nobody's paying for software anymore and [TS]

  the direction while cooperation corporations are well yes they are but [TS]

  look at you know Windows and Office as Microsoft's too big cash cows look at [TS]

  how to think about how that might be collapsing in the near future events [TS]

  happening we see it happen but it certainly seems like the best days are [TS]

  behind it and so what if what if Microsoft's future really is just [TS]

  completely exiting consumer stuff and and only being enterprise focused you [TS]

  know high-end office needs all that you know basically if your office would have [TS]

  an Exchange server or would use SharePoint and that's the kind of that's [TS]

  the kind of customer Microsoft wants to keep those are not there good products [TS]

  thanks share for his terrible just terrible [TS]

  those are not like my great grand you those things approach to make money and [TS]

  no one else wants to be in the business maybe like you know ASAP or whatever but [TS]

  those are not there [TS]

  those are not the best products right there probably the most successful [TS]

  competitor if they have the most upside probably because that's what people [TS]

  looking for is like water upside like to be think enterprise software looks like [TS]

  this craft has a bright future and that you're going to [TS]

  you know grow the company by selling more than four money like the trend is [TS]

  in the other direction getting rid of that stuff using simpler things [TS]

  switching to Google you know integrating with non Microsoft products like so [TS]

  they're squeezing every ounce of money out of that ass like that last bastion [TS]

  and they've defended it well and bomber has you know your goose that try to make [TS]

  it produces much money as possible and they have some good things on the web [TS]

  services-based the kind of transition to but if anyone is looking like the crown [TS]

  jewels of Microsoft I mean I don't know if they were picked that enterprises [TS]

  types offer in any way like you could make it actually I would really consider [TS]

  you have no idea how much as SharePoint licenses and how many I mean for the [TS]

  last 45 years my life I have more often than not been working on top of [TS]

  SharePoint which is why I'm bitter and jaded but it's it's popular to extremely [TS]

  popular and as you know exchanges I mean those are not cheap platforms and when [TS]

  you get an Exchange server or a SharePoint Server [TS]

  gonna be doing that on Windows Server 2008 you're going to be using sequel [TS]

  server and it did it spreads quick and it's profitable it's gotta be but I [TS]

  don't think this is a bright future in sign that kind of software to businesses [TS]

  well no one uses it because it's good you know this because it's good as [TS]

  desired enter into the center price offers on about what's good there's all [TS]

  these other factors involved and Microsoft is pretty good at those [TS]

  factors and there's no sign that's going to go away they're already in there is [TS]

  there are you getting disrupted at the low end used to be everybody had [TS]

  exchanged but now you probably don't have exchanged if you are a small [TS]

  company you get away with having like a glue or something like that or use [TS]

  Google or something like and you know what about sharing like we have [TS]

  SharePoint all these things but in our office we use Google Hangouts we use [TS]

  Dropbox share things because the enterprise software so terrible and [TS]

  we're pretty big company I need to be still pay for all the medical stuff but [TS]

  like it's being even from all sides like the super duper high and Microsoft plays [TS]

  there anymore and that's kind of like verified territory anyway but a special [TS]

  custom systems for that and then at the low end microsoft office costly many [TS]

  miles is a little web services and even in companies that pay for these things [TS]

  to people who are in the companies are choosing to use something else it's like [TS]

  the way I phones made it into the enterprise nobody wanted them [TS]

  had a strangle hold on to their great serving US customers but people didn't [TS]

  want to use them they wanted to use iPhones and that's that's the problem [TS]

  with the enterprise business that it's it's surrounded on all sides by other [TS]

  things I wanted to launch of people don't want to use your product like [TS]

  that's what's that ages ago about what defines enterprise software you know [TS]

  enterprise entanglements and we want to get involved enterprise business and [TS]

  enterprise software by definition is when the person buying your product is [TS]

  not the person has to use it [TS]

  underpriced offer that caused that totally defines the entire shape of this [TS]

  product because they're saying how do I how I'm going to get these guys to pay [TS]

  for my software and making this offer better is not how you get there because [TS]

  they're not going to be the ones to use it on campus but all i care is does is [TS]

  make my life easier than I T manager and so your product necessarily become [TS]

  shaped into this thing that I T Madras love and who cares if anyone else likes [TS]

  it because they have no choice right and that is evolutionary dead end for [TS]

  software as far as i'm concern so let me take a quick break right now and i wanna [TS]

  talk about another angle of this Microsoft discussion but because we're a [TS]

  half hour and limit a quick break and thank our first sponsor it is word box [TS]

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  Dropbox it's really it it has so many features I can't believe this came out [TS]

  of nowhere folder support it has dropped there sharing Dropbox backgrounding [TS]

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  apps that I think this could very easily replace word count emailing it's really [TS]

  it's really fantastic and what I like most about it is the UI design I mean [TS]

  this this not only fits right at home on iOS 7 I think but it's it's just as [TS]

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  it's a very clean modern and remember like the day before everybody sees [TS]

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  that everyone thought had blown have blown a missive about iOS 7 supporting [TS]

  third-party keyboards because he had made their own keyboard well weird box [TS]

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  and how good it is so really cool app code word box gonna word box at dot com [TS]

  or simply search the App Store forward box it still it's they want the cool [TS]

  light blue icon with tw in the circle in the middle of it but it's easier to talk [TS]

  on the screenshots and video it's really cool thanks a lot to word sorry [TS]

  word for sponsoring the show and once again check out where box thanks [TS]

  Gary from now and it fits right in [TS]

  I mean it really does look good so if you're markdown person should check it [TS]

  out I'm really impressed by the design of this rainy night I know I said it [TS]

  before and I'll say it again it's why I love they they have this awesome see the [TS]

  screenshots that is awesome black slide up Action menu we're like it like crazy [TS]

  the whole screen all the buttons are the big circles kinda like the idea of seven [TS]

  dialer phone dialer really really cool and i was very impressive design the [TS]

  prevalence of applications that do something other than the OS to falter [TS]

  cursor control should tell Apple [TS]

  their cursor control [TS]

  defaults are inadequate I keep hoping for the release will they really like [TS]

  every time I have to do anything involving the cursor and a standard I [TS]

  was tax bills every month every third party app that implement their own thing [TS]

  we just kind of good with this kind of like a lab trying all sorts of different [TS]

  techniques in terms of swiping and tapping and like my big complaint is the [TS]

  wait how long do I like press and hold it such an important part of interacting [TS]

  with tax and selection is an Iowa man by the fault but I don't like waiting [TS]

  anymore and whose it was it the UK see someone recently just installed iOS I [TS]

  know you did as well casey and then was complaining about the market planning [TS]

  how long the animations take it wasn't recently installed it but I complain [TS]

  about it last night [TS]

  yeah like I still have my last time you used was W ABC right so but when i doing [TS]

  so I fully expect to agree with everything you said your gonna hit and i [TS]

  cant do it defaults write her how to get rid of the animations like account yet [TS]

  another reason you said you make another point yeah one more idea here to you [TS]

  know a little bit more [TS]

  how do you think you know rather do you think there is a way that Microsoft [TS]

  could regain growth and and a foothold at all and especially could they grow [TS]

  market share again in the world of mobile smartphones and tablets like do [TS]

  you see a way that that could happen honestly I kind of don't I totally do I [TS]

  but like the company things have to get worse before they get better buckle up [TS]

  like there in half to lose a lot of weight a lot of money a lot of person [TS]

  out of projects lot of products like but you know it's like when jobs came back [TS]

  he can like everything basically into the whole company is considering the [TS]

  iMac right and then the next generation OS project and its gonna take like three [TS]

  tries for us to get right everything else is new and unopened icon you know [TS]

  everything just like I doubt anyone is going to come to do that but they should [TS]

  because if you want pick your product if you want the Xbox Live CD view on [TS]

  Windows Phone to succeed whatever it is that you want to be your thing that you [TS]

  think has a [TS]

  applied in the future and I would say like Windows Phone tablets and Xbox and [TS]

  any television related things like that that set of consumer products probably [TS]

  as much brighter future than their other consumer products [TS]

  those can be made it like their clothes like you know Windows 8 is terrible for [TS]

  policy reasons not so much tech reasons and as you said in past shows they were [TS]

  the first ones to the new athletic so they have like the right people in terms [TS]

  of design their thing there's just that you know all the other crap they do it [TS]

  all the stupid entanglement have to have a desktop mode on the surface and you [TS]

  know like they're just they're their own worse enemy and I i think they could [TS]

  turn this company around and pick a few of those great products and make them [TS]

  successful the cost will be almost everything else they do but I don't you [TS]

  know that work for Apple but there there's a very different that was a very [TS]

  different scenario that was first of all Apple is way worse shape then the [TS]

  microsoft has announced its easier to do crazy things when you're about to go [TS]

  bankrupt in exactly 14 not at all Microsoft is actually doing you know [TS]

  financially they're doing all right there they're doing pretty well I think [TS]

  that has to get worse before it gets better [TS]

  right but see that's why don't I don't see that strategy working for a lot of [TS]

  the reasons like I wrote this piece forever ago about microsoft apple's [TS]

  respective customer cultures this is back when Windows it hadn't come out yet [TS]

  but I think it was being shown off and i was i was speculating at the time that [TS]

  Microsoft customers generally don't like being told what to do and so they would [TS]

  probably resist Windows 8 if the new interface was mandatory and they [TS]

  couldn't just turn it off and just always a desktop again and that turn out [TS]

  to be correct that I guess I did release it that way people did hit it and now [TS]

  with that whatever code named Blue Mountain whatever it is this father [TS]

  going to reverse that you know i i think Microsoft the reason why people buy [TS]

  microsoft products is because the products let the people do whatever they [TS]

  want their computers and they don't really get there early her kill anything [TS]

  they hardly ever restrict anything it's really [TS]

  not open in the sense of stahlman but it's open in the sense of capabilities [TS]

  and settings and stuff like that what people do what they want but if it's [TS]

  like reading a toddler never telling them no bullshit so that's what they're [TS]

  doing with their business and like it's it's terrible I get back on that all [TS]

  have a good to have someone about what you know what's wrong with Microsoft [TS]

  their biggest problem is that when they had all the power in the world they [TS]

  didn't use it to subjugate the masses like we are on top of the world windows [TS]

  ninety-five has a letter introducing into the greatest thing in the entire [TS]

  world everybody loves Microsoft we do everything that was the time to put you [TS]

  know so I guess what our new things not even have a desktop it's all gonna be [TS]

  like whenever they're crazy idea was because in that time [TS]

  you know you like oh my god I don't think you're right they would all go I [TS]

  don't like this on my desktop back but if you didn't give them the option that [TS]

  Microsoft could i SAT there was armed soldiers and say what you gonna do go to [TS]

  Linux on the desktop buy a Mac Mini is ridiculous options they have the power [TS]

  to turn their whole user base as sort of Apple did because the Apple faithful [TS]

  were like you know we love Apple they're about to go back up to buy anything you [TS]

  make to your computer I guess like operating system and steam unusually [TS]

  slow and has crazy bunch of its kind of cool at like you know they had a very [TS]

  small tiny amount of power and the truth is something larger but Microsoft was on [TS]

  top of the world and they could have they should have taken that opportunity [TS]

  to turn the ship now they're like weekend an injured like Windows 8 we [TS]

  have some ideas for new interface but please don't hurt us and that's it you [TS]

  know I think they have more power than they thought he did I think when it [TS]

  would have been more successful they had really commit the company to it but [TS]

  you're right at this point like people do have other options and maybe they [TS]

  don't have enough power to you know to say everything all windows it looks like [TS]

  this and then I T would have been like that everybody at startup plans to [TS]

  convert to Apple doesn't want their business they can't use Linux so I think [TS]

  they're big mistake is catering to their customers to the Rio and sometimes [TS]

  perceived to be larger than [TS]

  really is desired by their customers not to have things changed because it's [TS]

  that's what leadership is it's telling people know this is the way things are [TS]

  going to be in the future no you can't have the old way back you can't do that [TS]

  all the time but the certain turning points it's time to do that if you don't [TS]

  do that ever you would just be left with your cranky customers who will never [TS]

  really be satisfied and you were doing dealing base and we are counting on the [TS]

  situation to her people selling mainframes or whatever regis keep [TS]

  selling mainframes they keep making demands knows mainframe people want [TS]

  mainframe features and eventually real you selling 23 people and the government [TS]

  and the entire US industries moved on and your three customers are still [TS]

  crying about something alright but the problem is when Microsoft caters to a [TS]

  large degree to enterprise enterprise is always a big slow-moving Kennedy and if [TS]

  you're answering to the enterprise they're never gonna want new they're [TS]

  gonna want new only when they have to have it because that means I have to [TS]

  spend money from their tight budgets to buy new and so as long as they have they [TS]

  they're concerned at all with what the enterprise things I don't think there's [TS]

  much that can be done in a kind of comes back to our conversation earlier so how [TS]

  do you make Microsoft better I almost wonder if it is you got I think maybe if [TS]

  you just spin off the consumer business however you define that and say you go [TS]

  do your thing and don't give a crap about the enterprise do what you think [TS]

  is right and in the enterprise folks can do that the boring stuff that that the [TS]

  ITV you guys need and they don't need to be as much as mobile in the sense of a [TS]

  July guess I should say and they can they can continue to do the same thing [TS]

  over and over until they eventually weather-related I but say it's a you [TS]

  tell the enterprise people tough luck you're getting what we give you and they [TS]

  say alright no screen Microsoft you didn't listen to us you're not giving us [TS]

  what we want what they do after that all rights line megadoses fine with all your [TS]

  business what are you guys gonna be instead and then they're gonna be like I [TS]

  guess well liked by Google services like [TS]

  wherever they run to their their kind of a poison pill say Microsoft pulls out of [TS]

  enterprises beer caning we're stopping Siebel Server were stopping you know [TS]

  exchange gonna keep on Windows Azure that's like forward-looking network type [TS]

  services in [TS]

  the same thing you can't have anymore canceling all those products but but but [TS]

  wait now 55 go to go to someone else for the business [TS]

  whoever gets all that business is now tied down by that crap in those [TS]

  customers so Google about those businesses it would you know unless you [TS]

  really really strong less google also help blind anyone who these enterprise [TS]

  customers went to would be dragged down by them it's like he's dragging you down [TS]

  to the pit of irrelevance right we need to see this roadmap going forward he [TS]

  can't change things now we're big important customer how many millions of [TS]

  dollars to be giving every year and it takes a strong company to be able to say [TS]

  no to them [TS]

  Microsoft can do it and if whoever they go to like I don't know who they would [TS]

  go to the go-to are you know have fun with them ASAP or sum up some new [TS]

  company would rise up to take their money you do not want those customers [TS]

  those customers are not good for a successful business and if you lose them [TS]

  or intentionally piss them off and abandon them they're gonna have to go [TS]

  somewhere and chances are good they're gonna go to your competitors and screw [TS]

  them and then you'll be free to say like Apple you know me like Apple got out of [TS]

  the business for the most part except maybe a little of education and it let [TS]

  them go forward and do what they want without worrying about how they mess [TS]

  with the united enterprise did a little bit like oh ok will change your iPhone [TS]

  to work a little better with the enterprise but they are not focus on [TS]

  that customer they don't do and enterprise wants anyone tonight he has [TS]

  to deal with Apple they do not do it with a large company wants them to do [TS]

  and I think Apple is freer and more successful for it you know it you're [TS]

  right but also consider what if Microsoft holding Apple card in they try [TS]

  to get these words out in a way that makes sense if microsoft said screw you [TS]

  enterprise and then what if a different Microsoft product the new version sequel [TS]

  server the new version of Exchange that breaks all the old exchange but is [TS]

  better in every way what if that's what's the new thing is so they self [TS]

  cannibalize is that so terrible is that what it will take [TS]

  that's not terrible but like you have to you have to go into with a new attitude [TS]

  right you have to go into it was like the additive [TS]

  they were breaking everything I know you don't like it and we hope you like our [TS]

  new products but be going forward yet know the rules have changed you don't [TS]

  get to dictate what we want we are not going to hold backward compatibility for [TS]

  ever and ever and ever to make you feel better [TS]

  like you have to take more power in that relationship which is different they [TS]

  haven't been able to do it and that's why I think it's so much poison to have [TS]

  these is your customers because they do pay you tons and tons of money and [TS]

  natural for any business to go [TS]

  jeez these customers are paying us tons of money we have to pay attention about [TS]

  what otherwise would like us to institutional business do you know the [TS]

  customer's always right do with the customer wants and you end up making [TS]

  products beholden to these customers who you know these buyers who are not gonna [TS]

  actually use your products and it starts taking that same shape again so you have [TS]

  to it's very difficult to serve those businesses while still trying to make a [TS]

  product that's good that that the people who are buying it [TS]

  you know the actual users who are not actually buying it like I don't know of [TS]

  any companies ever been successful doing that Apple solution was just like final [TS]

  exit a business that's the solution if someone's out if this I'm company out [TS]

  there serving enterprising government while also making awesome products that [TS]

  the users like feel free to write us tell us about it as a Lotus Notes I mean [TS]

  everything you just said I think supports the theory of that Microsoft [TS]

  should probably split itself into consumer and enterprise a separate [TS]

  companies are set for majorly separate divisions to the point where they could [TS]

  have totally separate product lines because you know it's think about it [TS]

  they're trying to show of corporate windows on the desktop at home and on [TS]

  laptops on consumer stuff has always kind of had problems you know back when [TS]

  you know Windows 2000 and T five when when that was supposed to be the big [TS]

  unifying release and it was so hard to tell you that they had to push off the [TS]

  beginner finally still in his XP and Windows meet him out you know it was it [TS]

  was clear back then there was very very hard to match these two worlds together [TS]

  of consumer and and enterprise at four on a technical level and then I think [TS]

  now we're seeing a lot of them the problem the product level where and even [TS]

  on the on the company level we're seeing [TS]

  Microsoft is not doing a very good job of balancing these two things especially [TS]

  when it comes to their consumer device side you see like the surface versus the [TS]

  surface Pro is to separate products office having its own giant pile of of [TS]

  politics and conflict and issues in that world you see Microsoft not being able [TS]

  to politically and strategically release office for iOS or Android you know you [TS]

  see these these pretty big problems that are really hurting Microsoft big-time [TS]

  imagine this imagine Microsoft spins out a new consumer company they are [TS]

  responsible for Xbox whatever Zune still has left basically they're responsible [TS]

  for Xbox plus tablets and phones Scott Forstall CEO of that company then their [TS]

  regular everything else the entire enterprise and service out of their [TS]

  business all the server software windows for PCs office all of that is a totally [TS]

  separate company that you know has somebody like bomber but good at the [TS]

  head of that why isn't why is that you could [TS]

  why why is that worse than what they have now likewise the consumer side [TS]

  making any money there's no money to be made on I don't think that's the problem [TS]

  I got a technical problem is that like all those things you just described [TS]

  share some upcoming technology that would be very difficult like legally [TS]

  speaking he did you that up a diversion whatever you like it when i picture out [TS]

  of my mind when i picture is a rocket ship going up into space and stage 1 is [TS]

  the enterprise business and it it's expands its fuel separate and tumbles [TS]

  back into the atmosphere and stage two and three is like the consumer products [TS]

  and I was like who is going to volunteer to be on the stage one that fire stop [TS]

  and then runs out of fuel then tumbled into the ocean enterprise business [TS]

  they're the biggest rocket right behind the most you'll have the most power but [TS]

  inevitably they're gonna run the ocean like I would not if I was there [TS]

  and they were giving up the company along those lines I would wonder how [TS]

  many people would raise their hands to be on their part or to invest in another [TS]

  part of whatever like it's like this is the future business and this is the [TS]

  current / dying business and you know that's that's a tough sell to the [TS]

  current one is the one that pays dividends and makes reliable money every [TS]

  year and and the consumer as the shrink when I think those two things can exist [TS]

  within the same company just has to be changed and I think existing within the [TS]

  same company gives you the biggest benefit but that's like using the [TS]

  booster rocket and not and not like this analogy is failing now but I cannot [TS]

  jettisoning it like keeping it with you live you phone but you're gonna like [TS]

  it's kind of like what Apple did with like the Mac Mac we have to get this [TS]

  thing back on track we have to make one to steal so people will buy it while [TS]

  we're doing that let's work on the next stuff and we're gonna try a whole bunch [TS]

  of things in the one of them stuck with the iPod it's like kodak is this more [TS]

  breathing room or can we gotta work on the next thing right so it's like the [TS]

  Mac was like the office like cash cow but like it was the only thing they had [TS]

  a job one was make sure I keep making money and Microsoft are you got that [TS]

  covered right that can power your company while you work on the other [TS]

  things and when you work on things and the other two successful like the MCA's [TS]

  faded away and slide dwindled it's been growing long everything else is just [TS]

  growing such a smaller rate than everything else that looks like it's [TS]

  unimportant but it's their right so you can use that enterprise business as your [TS]

  platform that will keep you safe in the black long enough for you to work on the [TS]

  next big thing and if you hit the next big thing that part that's been helped [TS]

  helping you stay safe in the black back of a successful business too and also [TS]

  still growing and also improving so I think probably keeping the company [TS]

  together but just you know organizing it running it differently is probably a [TS]

  better strategy than splitting up splitting up I don't see good things for [TS]

  the enterprise company and I see also some crazy issues in terms of like the [TS]

  entanglement get worse when you have to have something like cross-licensing [TS]

  agreement or you know coordinated development to maintain compatibility [TS]

  between enterprise windows in consumer windows and stuff [TS]

  you know think it is is that I feel like we've been beaten up Microsoft a lot [TS]

  today and I think it's easy to kick somebody when they're down but I think I [TS]

  speak for all of us win in saying that I'm actually very hopeful for Microsoft [TS]

  and I was thinking about it you guys made the point earlier that you know [TS]

  Microsoft is really early on tablets they were really early on smartphones [TS]

  well maybe they weren't that smart but they were certainly more than just [TS]

  feature phones and so during those days it was like they had they had good [TS]

  timing and they had decent vision but never really executed you know they saw [TS]

  the smart phones were thing and they saw it arguably before a lot of other people [TS]

  did but I never really did it well now with say Windows Phone 8 they had pretty [TS]

  good vision and pretty good execution but the timing was terrible in so I [TS]

  wonder if for whatever the next big thing is the next mobile maybe its TV as [TS]

  everyone's been saying but I doubt it but whatever the next thing is maybe [TS]

  they won't get all three of those timing vision and execution right and then [TS]

  maybe that will really turn around and you could argue that maybe as jurors [TS]

  that thing I'm not saying that is but there you could pose the argument that [TS]

  maybe others that thing and I'm really hopeful that maybe one of these days [TS]

  I'll get all three right at the same time because it would be better for all [TS]

  of us even diehard Apple users when Microsoft is competitive in good well [TS]

  going back a second to the question asked after the last break and it's [TS]

  almost time for the next one but you know my question here let's let's ignore [TS]

  the question of whether the company got split up or not because that obviously [TS]

  is a rat hole in it for the purpose of this doesn't matter [TS]

  imagine what would an ideal Microsoft product launch look like today in the in [TS]

  the phone and tablet area in the general mobile devices area which is where the [TS]

  growth is in which is what slowly eating PCs actually not even that slowly you [TS]

  know where's Microsoft's place in this market I'm kinda thinking they don't [TS]

  have one because here's the thing let's say they release of real windows [TS]

  Windows Phone seven and 8 and Windows II were both pretty good near neither of [TS]

  them were great but they were both pretty good especially for you know 440 [TS]

  Microsoft release in the last decade they were they were really good you know [TS]

  you can look at basically the last few things Microsoft did on the other major [TS]

  platforms Windows 7 was very well received [TS]

  Windows Phone 7 Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 those were all very [TS]

  well-received critically but in the market [TS]

  2007 I think that well but but the rest of it especially the mobile area has [TS]

  really done pretty terribly what could they do it if they really something that [TS]

  was really really great let's let's let's say windows 8 on the on the [TS]

  surface you know let's say that was a really great lunch let's say they even [TS]

  got the surface down to 300 bucks at launch and it was price competitive is [TS]

  when it's when it launched it wasn't but let's say it let's say they got there [TS]

  what could they release that would give them substantial growth and market share [TS]

  in this market I don't think I don't think there is anything they could do [TS]

  because Apple has the premium and locked up tight google has everything else [TS]

  locked up tight I don't really see room for a third party here doing similar [TS]

  kinds of things and and maybe do some totally different than what is that they [TS]

  tried a little bit with Windows 8 and and some of the surface PC crossover [TS]

  stuff but that didn't work that well either case it was right that like that [TS]

  was the timing issues like if you even get the execution of the timing or both [TS]

  and this was a timing issue they released adequate [TS]

  products with some interesting things about them that I recommend them but the [TS]

  timing was was awful that they're kind of in the sense that people used to be [TS]

  in I'll be used to routinely launch better products but nobody cared [TS]

  everybody uses Windows cause I can't read my applications on it cuz you know [TS]

  right the software uses like there you know it doesn't matter how high does [TS]

  matter how good Apple makes up the matter how can anything Apple releases [TS]

  announcing the care but that's not entirely is just it's just the bars [TS]

  really hot so who would have thought the solution was to release a TI McIntosh [TS]

  that will do it like now you know that generated exactly why did generate [TS]

  excitement because it was a different color and it looked different like [TS]

  fashion you know like they they started you know that they took a different tact [TS]

  and got them attention did it did that turn the whole company run no but they [TS]

  give them little more breathing room right and then the next thing i pod [TS]

  which ever one tion but that turned out to be a great I did like you know it's [TS]

  it's possible just justice really really hard and if you're really late like it [TS]

  if Apple AAPL can't be the seventh company to release a translucent colored [TS]

  computer now good as they had to be the one to make the big splash so Microsoft [TS]

  was not the first one to visit Apple they were kind of the person with the [TS]

  windows 8 type of luck but it wasn't it wasn't enough and it was diluted in [TS]

  water down but there are you know plenty of areas where Microsoft could be [TS]

  successful with a new product they just have to reset and I would say even the [TS]

  Xbox established category could have been a runaway hit if everything had [TS]

  gone their way right so say they released a Sony screwed up and do what [TS]

  they do with the continued to visit is growing up so he screws up and Microsoft [TS]

  comes out and they do everything right with the new Xbox watching everybody [TS]

  loves them and then they're taking market share from almost everybody else [TS]

  they become the on uncontested undisputed platform for triple-a games [TS]

  because it does not in the competition for that market is like Nintendo Sony [TS]

  and PC space for just you know kind of sort of Microsoft / steam / whatever he [TS]

  and stuff like that that is a big market that market makes a lot of money and if [TS]

  Microsoft could have come out and dominated it that would be a big win for [TS]

  them because they're already in the market there are and and this is a [TS]

  generational turnover lots of things that happen if they had executed an [TS]

  amazingly well if they got lucky in and their competitors didn't execute as well [TS]

  that would be a big win and all of a sudden you see that you know making a [TS]

  lot of money for them they could to me like we we we bucks from the lodging and [TS]

  that's not how it turned out they ended up doing a whole bunch of things wrong [TS]

  and one of their competitors Tony did not do a lot of things wrong [TS]

  and you know it's it's like it looks like it's going to be a horse race again [TS]

  but I don't I don't count them out [TS]

  assisted it's gonna be really hard and you can't look at what your competitors [TS]

  have already done and try to do it better because you never know what one [TS]

  better part you need to do to make it happen like if you look at Apple's what [TS]

  do they have to do how awesome is the computer that had to reset computer [TS]

  that's faster than ever been so they had to release one that is more reliable [TS]

  these warrants a different color what would I say a different color when I [TS]

  like that turned out to be the thing a different color was the thing that got [TS]

  the attention and you know turn things around [TS]

  obviously I'm making light of it it's much more do you think it was that [TS]

  simple and I like it no one would have predicted that if you had to ask like ok [TS]

  we're getting killed eerily similar products Microsoft what do we have to do [TS]

  to make people notice US and EU brainstormed it the guy who is coming up [TS]

  with the idea for like everyone like that's not gonna do it because in the [TS]

  abstract it seems stupid you have to see the concrete iMac to understand what it [TS]

  is about it you know like it that's that's a difference in vision and it has [TS]

  to be executed well but just the idea of like we're gonna make it appear that is [TS]

  designed differently physically speaking that doesn't sound like a winning idea [TS]

  but the execution matters so if you said we're going to make a tablet that also [TS]

  doubles as a PC I don't even know that the winning idea but certainly the [TS]

  execution was one arm version and then I can in television with a fan and it and [TS]

  that you can put the desktop on both of them because they're afraid to go away [TS]

  you know like the execution was not wearing an undershirt that idea was [TS]

  winning but I don't rule out the concept of them feeling a product that you know [TS]

  becomes very popular and makes people to sit up and take notice and with that our [TS]

  second sponsor this week is another new iOS app I love I love this kind of [TS]

  Pontius my favorite kind of Sponsor to the new iOS app called noted graph and [TS]

  it's like photograph but for notes have noted graph and OTO GRA pH and this is a [TS]

  pretty cool app it's you know what we talked last episode or two episodes ago [TS]

  about photo story [TS]

  and photostream and stuff like that this is not a graph is a place to keep photos [TS]

  that you're taking more frightened note-taking purpose and they can be kept [TS]

  outside of your camera roll so they aren't clogging up your camera roll [TS]

  because you know you're not really taking like you know a photo of the [TS]

  label of a wine that you like you don't really need it to be like in your family [TS]

  vacation photos like your that's not the purpose that you're taking it for and I [TS]

  use my camera on my phone all time for this purpose for the purpose of [TS]

  reminding me of something that I want to come back to later you know if you know [TS]

  for me it's often a simple as like a picture of where I parked in the parking [TS]

  garage and I'll take a picture of the nearest signed the letter and number on [TS]

  something like that or it can be longer like oh here's you know here's a pure [TS]

  light years apart I want to look at here so I saw a store but I want to learn [TS]

  more about it reid Amazon reviews whatever the case may be so no to graph [TS]

  isn't at made for this purpose its first of all designed primarily for quick [TS]

  captures cause obviously when you're in these situations you don't have to be [TS]

  filling slots a navigation so you launch it it's quick captured its it opens [TS]

  always ready to take a picture it has all sorts of sharing options [TS]

  iCloud syncing with Dropbox Evernote you can email you can message all that stuff [TS]

  you can take this into account if you want to but you don't have to his whole [TS]

  organizational system you can create folders and manage all these things one [TS]

  of the coolest things about this i think is the UI it's a really opinionated UI [TS]

  and I like that about it it's it was designed by Iowa seven in mind but if [TS]

  you take a look at the site it's it's not a graph and OTO GRA pH dotnet / ATP [TS]

  got an autographed net / ATP take a look at that they are you I it's very text [TS]

  heavy and it uses this awesome tungsten by Sarah Jones it's so it's a fantastic [TS]

  professional and it is a very text heavy I S seven principal styled app but it [TS]

  doesn't look like every other I was about to enter an era where every [TS]

  outlooks you know white with Helvetica Neue [TS]

  and is you know all this looks different takes a lot of the lessons learned from [TS]

  iOS 7 but it has its own style and his cool UI mechanic we're like you know to [TS]

  see the photos in a list of thumb now they have this thing where the list is a [TS]

  big rectangular sell to a table so then I was usually are and they have the [TS]

  school you are you guys dragged a just a horizontal box up and down the photo to [TS]

  pick what part of it you want to be that little skinnier tangle them now it's [TS]

  really cool very cool UI very cool idea and they even have a pretty cool they [TS]

  even have a video made by our friend jonathan mann the guy who who made our [TS]

  theme song if you go to their website and autographed net / ATT you can see [TS]

  this awesome music video that Johnson man-made for its really cool so I think [TS]

  this is worth checking out I think you should definitely get it right now to [TS]

  support them in our show so thanks a lot to know to graph for sponsoring our show [TS]

  and OTO GRA pH like photograph but for notes photographs dotnet / ATP thank you [TS]

  very much I'm glad you brought up the thumbnail thing because that was why I [TS]

  agree with everything you said I think the thumbnail thing was the most [TS]

  interesting bit of the UI that I saw it was a really clever way to make a list [TS]

  that didn't feel like every other lists that you've ever seen an ILS and it is [TS]

  it is a pretty sight caps you should definitely check it out all these [TS]

  applications that use like a case they want to show your content as the atom [TS]

  like they don't have an item that just looks like a listbox like a thumbnail [TS]

  like they want you know for starting pitcher something they want the pictures [TS]

  to be the item I got my photos like this on the Mac way when you have an events [TS]

  it picks one of the photos from the events to be that the thing on the photo [TS]

  to a key feature for any applications does that is there has to be a way for [TS]

  you to say you know what you picked the wrong picture iPhoto for that event I [TS]

  would like to use a different are you know what no to graft actually I would [TS]

  have crop that differently so I could see like the name of the wine label [TS]

  that's that I took a picture or whatever and that's the key feature it seems like [TS]

  what what's the difference that's like a power user future revenues that but all [TS]

  managed to take so much of a difference and you can move a little rectangle and [TS]

  pick which are you wanna cropped or about the way people don't know [TS]

  in what is it a night or spacebar lets you see the pictures and in an event [TS]

  ascribing to hit the spacebar to pick the one you want the event that is one [TS]

  of my favorite iPhoto features that actually added in recent years one of [TS]

  the few facts or something like that is that everyone should do that is not only [TS]

  is that the best Syracuse Ian future pic that I can possibly think of but we have [TS]

  what I believe might be the perfect Syracuse Ian topic coming up next [TS]

  so what happened intended today how much I think a lot of people making fun of [TS]

  this product on the Nintendo 3ds which is not a type of its not a joke like the [TS]

  name we seems like a big joke to begin with but now the real real name and it [TS]

  in some ways it's kind of clever but the 3ds is their handheld gaming system with [TS]

  a 3d glasses kind of stereoscopic the screen on the top and a touch screen on [TS]

  the bottom which is crazy in a strange intend to kind of way but actually after [TS]

  a fairly disastrous start has started selling well in this last price and so [TS]

  now they're making a version of their flagship product and deflection feature [TS]

  the flagship product right there in the name 3ds was that it's like an intense [TS]

  vs but its 3d right so now they made a version of it without the 3d real quick [TS]

  the 3ds that folds in half dozen not does it as a hinge just like the other [TS]

  is the DNS and there's like seven variants of this thing they're out on a [TS]

  dinner at all [TS]

  intended was not shy about making different variations big ones small ones [TS]

  one of the extra cameras you know once as big as your head [TS]

  yeah and that it's actually not a terrible idea because like the big ones [TS]

  basically for adult sized hands and not that I play games that I did I would [TS]

  appreciate the fact that the 22 yes is getting rid of the 3d and 3d has kind of [TS]

  been one of those things where it always amazes me that they ever ship the [TS]

  product because it's interesting tak 3d without glasses is a good idea it's the [TS]

  stupid classes it does work as advertised but you do have to keep your [TS]

  head in a certain position otherwise the [TS]

  you get the wrong image in the wrong eyes and it doesn't quite work right and [TS]

  they shipped with little slider lets you turn down the 3d effect and put the [TS]

  slaughter all way down and turns it off so they probably have some kind of stats [TS]

  and see things are interconnected by how many people using 3ds is that we've sold [TS]

  had a slider all the way down all the time and probably determined that 3d [TS]

  feature is not as popular as we thought it was going to be it apparently wasn't [TS]

  a big differentiator for people that's not the reason people are buying this [TS]

  they're buying them they're pretty the slider down to the bottom they leaving [TS]

  it there that is using it like it like a Nintendo DSi and they really diabetes [TS]

  make good games so let's make one of these products without three future [TS]

  because we can save money and the way they seem to save money with this [TS]

  product is my bedd content and get to use the word from the auto industry like [TS]

  getting rid of 3d charlie is cheaper to have a screen that doesn't do with a [TS]

  little three things to the left ventricular things on top of it [TS]

  everything doesn't fold in half and I thought they were because they want to [TS]

  save money in the hands because hinges are expensive electronics and more [TS]

  moving parts needed to thread you know ribbon cables through them and its [TS]

  reliability issues and all that other stuff but what I read I don't know if [TS]

  this is confirmed just read it so maybe we'll know whether it's true or not is [TS]

  that it doesn't have to separate screens it as one big screen and they just crop [TS]

  out the top and the bottom part that's why does it because it can't be done now [TS]

  and once one screen that's larger like if you look at it like the tip top of [TS]

  the same size so if there's one big rectangular screen this the width of the [TS]

  top screen they're just hiding part in with the plastic surrounding parts of [TS]

  you know I know how to increase the middle part as well and seems like there [TS]

  might be more expensive but I can also imagine it being cheaper I don't know if [TS]

  that's true but that would also explain why the thing doesn't fold in the final [TS]

  reason it doesn't fall too looks kind of like a tablet form factor like it you [TS]

  can converse Quinton think of it as kind of like I had many with with white [TS]

  candles and controls on the sides but then they put this thing on that makes [TS]

  it look like the top and bottom screen [TS]

  and all the same 40 bucks retail which is not really that much but it's pretty [TS]

  significant amount of you think if I could you have a consumer electronics [TS]

  product and someone told you ok we want the state-run all the same games and [TS]

  being good prognostic $40 out of it you like $40 how the hell do I get $40 that [TS]

  are already using a plastic for the case I can't really get money out for the [TS]

  chips and stuff like that it's a few bucks here in their ad I shrink of them [TS]

  or something maybe who combine some chips and save 40 bucks how we get $40 [TS]

  value out of this is handled and this is what it took to get $40 out of it so [TS]

  it's cheaper it plays 3ds games in 2d it may be one big screen underneath the [TS]

  covers they move the controls around a little bit I don't think it's as [TS]

  ridiculous a product is made out to be I looked at it and that's it especially [TS]

  the video more Casey put in it he said as a comparison video and you know [TS]

  everyone can make apple quality videos right but look at the size of the device [TS]

  and how could have simply been too little bag I would buy this for my kid [TS]

  if he wanted to play handheld games and I think the kids would like it and enjoy [TS]

  playing games on it and that's what game machines are supposed to be for anything [TS]

  antenna would actually make money selling them because they have found a [TS]

  way to take some value takes them take somebody would take some costs out of [TS]

  the manufacturing process and lower the price while still making a profit so I [TS]

  have to give this kind of a tentative thumbs-up I don't know I saw even played [TS]

  console video games with any regularity in like 10 years we only have a week in [TS]

  the house which is on only occasionally and usually only for rock band John [TS]

  judge away I saw the pictures the tds and I saw the ridiculous video for the [TS]

  two TDs and just the fact that it doesn't have a hinge just looks and [TS]

  feels wrong to me it just looks like it's clearly something that was designed [TS]

  originally to have a hinge and now doesn't and the thing that really [TS]

  confuses me is that now you've taken a device [TS]

  we think is designed for children in people with perhaps smaller hands and [TS]

  smaller bodies and now you've made it bigger because it can never fold in half [TS]

  but did you know that much bigger like it's still pretty don't I look at it [TS]

  next that little kid who's upset up into his little carrying case it is look at [TS]

  the video like it's hard when you see it just by itself you think you think it [TS]

  looks like you know some gigantic like I don't know but might look at look at it [TS]

  next to the toddler putting away it is still small I think it's still a [TS]

  reasonable size for a kid to put in talking to the backpack to go on a car [TS]

  trip to have something to play in the car on vacation or something like I [TS]

  don't think it's certainly not huge but maybe it's me and I just don't get the [TS]

  way it looks like it's supposed to have him to just doesn't like they forgot it [TS]

  rather than it rather than they designed it out [TS]

  say the thing with the moment the hands a lot of a lot of 3ds games like this [TS]

  shoulder buttons on it as well the space button shoulder buttons and you got the [TS]

  analog stick candy pattern and also got a stylist for the top to the bottom [TS]

  touch screen and some games trying to use like all those controls at once and [TS]

  liked it was it was the pilot wings chatroom can tell me kid Icarus whatever [TS]

  they came for the 3ds and Wii for the delayed ago anyway there was one game [TS]

  that didn't end with the required you to use like the styles at the same time as [TS]

  the analog stick to the same time the shoulder bond and the game came with [TS]

  like a little plastic stand thing because antenna recognized trying to [TS]

  manipulate the machine this manner while also supporting it is actually very [TS]

  difficult so find a table used a special plastic stand to profit up in the right [TS]

  position when you can play a game and that's kind of a failure of like in game [TS]

  design and harbor design like it's kind of on gamely to be tried in trying to be [TS]

  holding like basically a miniature laptop that folds over and we'll [TS]

  clamshell thing while using all these controls over it and sometimes using a [TS]

  stylus and everything I think the tablet form factor [TS]

  gives a better grip on the overall thing like the fact that is just one big solid [TS]

  pieces set up some floppy thing [TS]

  chat room says Kid Icarus Uprising was the game so I think that form factor may [TS]

  actually be better [TS]

  unfortunately it's probably worse for some games that were designed around the [TS]

  clamshell factor because some games like Metroid Prime hunters like it's going to [TS]

  be very difficult to play that game was designed around the position of the [TS]

  controls for the folding game with a controller lower down near to the touch [TS]

  screen and now they're sort of split up but I think overall it will probably [TS]

  feel more secure in your hands [TS]

  this one piece instead of having that strange thing at various angles so again [TS]

  I don't I don't think this is necessarily loser product [TS]

  myself out of them and actually I'm now looking at an image what appears to me [TS]

  to be the TDS the what was the non 3d one the DSi and 3ds and you're right I [TS]

  delivered to des 33 TSX is also the DSi which the same size as the old es before [TS]

  they redesigned it put it in the chat room or something so we can soon as I [TS]

  got from you was from joystick media live a block from Alex pinsky so anyway [TS]

  whatever it is I'm looking at it compared to that monstrosity in the [TS]

  right it actually doesn't get all that now that's the one I would buy by the [TS]

  way because it's closer for adult hands so that's designed to be a monstrosity [TS]

  I'm not trying to be funny [TS]

  the whole point I want to be larger for older people who have trouble saying and [TS]

  you know it costs a little more visible bigger screen but if you're an adult you [TS]

  don't want to have your hands on those given you the only adult wanted to buy a [TS]

  3ds handheld games at all because they're terrible for us I like the you [TS]

  can't make a really economic controller at of someone a controller is also the [TS]

  game system and the screen and has to be portable so I understand the compromises [TS]

  there and I kinda miss out on some of the games that I would like to play like [TS]

  I wish to the Gravity Rush chair again to confirm my memory spelling but anyway [TS]

  there's a game for the Vita that I really love to play but I'm not gonna be [TS]

  handled the areas I keep hoping it would come out for the ps3 or something [TS]

  like third party members first party boxy you could get way back in the day [TS]

  to play original Game Boy games on a TV and a lot of this lot of products like [TS]

  that and I I keep hoping that there will be some kind of product or maybe the [TS]

  Virtual Console games for 3ds only games will someone says its I say I thought [TS]

  that's what you said is that I don't know why I keep hoping the DS games that [TS]

  I've been missing on handheld will eventually come to a system that I can [TS]

  play you know somehow on my television holding a slightly more ergonomic [TS]

  controller in more comfort so so you're saying that tentative thumbs-up for the [TS]

  for the system is that is that fair [TS]

  yeah I mean like it's kind of sad that Nintendo has to go to these lengths this [TS]

  is not a power move this is not like we're on top of the world and now we're [TS]

  so successful that we can do this kind of like look the Wii U is doing really [TS]

  badly the 3ds has I kind of picked up in recent years it's not you know that has [TS]

  a chance for some growth what can we do to get more money out of the park is [TS]

  actually as they do make it cheaper version around holiday time people more [TS]

  likely to buy it for their kids want an iPad Mini but we can't afford that so [TS]

  we're gonna by $130 3ds 3ds and honestly I think about to des like the games that [TS]

  are available for the Des Plaines n EDS game plus any 3ds game so there's a huge [TS]

  game library all of this and I would put the game library that I think can play [TS]

  up against like seven App Store game libraries not there are great games in [TS]

  the App Store but the depth of games available on that device and the type of [TS]

  gameplay experience that you can have with buns and shoulder bones and sticks [TS]

  and a touch screen styles and all that stuff just put the iOS gaming experience [TS]

  shame like so I would be totally comfortable by Miss less expensive [TS]

  device now granted the games are going to cause you more when everybody is less [TS]

  expensive devices like two games and the kids stocking for Christmas and I think [TS]

  even though they could win an iPad Mini [TS]

  he's the right age and he is a gamer he would much happier with this device [TS]

  so two very sore thumbs up [TS]

  real-time follow-up pretty in the chatroom says it was a super Gameboy for [TS]

  Super Nintendo that I was thinking of which it was yeah so then John you kind [TS]

  of started down this road and then backed away what do you think this means [TS]

  as a barometer for the health of Nintendo and their power in the [TS]

  marketplace and it certainly like you said doesn't seem like this was the move [TS]

  of the King it seems like it was the move of the competitor almost so how [TS]

  does this make you feel as a Nintendo fan I think that it's a good thing that [TS]

  money during the wee [TS]

  because now they're at their rainy-day fund it's now time for them to start [TS]

  using it and I think they do have some breathing room to regroup during these [TS]

  type of movies like okay let's shore up the damn while we try to regroup and I [TS]

  really hope they are regrouping because they have to have some breathing room [TS]

  they made tons of money but the success of the way to reuse tanking they have to [TS]

  decide are we gonna try to recover the way you do think that we already did [TS]

  price drop on that when they drop they drop the good one the one they really [TS]

  want from like 350 352 good move to the reboot PhD remake of Wind Waker which [TS]

  appeals to people is gonna be available early and digital only form that's also [TS]

  a good move like when you have a kind of like an important popular title you know [TS]

  people are going to want to release it early in digital form to sort of you [TS]

  know more people who don't wanna go to the store and buy disc I think this will [TS]

  be cheaper like so those are those are good movies but like I think I stick it [TS]

  out with the Wii U R they gonna read the Wii U way before everyone else Redskins [TS]

  vs fire an xbox name those aren't coming out for many many many years but [TS]

  Nintendo could you know producing a console and the next two years is that [TS]

  that their reboot plan or a mistake with the Wii U four years from now about this [TS]

  podcast and played back to me [TS]

  I don't even think that's so I would like to know what their strategy is but [TS]

  I think they have a little bit of breathing room and I think these type of [TS]

  movies you like [TS]

  while we're figuring out what we're going to do let's let's see what we can [TS]

  do to get a little more money out of sight of these good areas a lot of the [TS]

  problem could be software maybe that's their strategy regroup and we really [TS]

  need to be firing on all cylinders with various parties offer [TS]

  well it said that and are we going to see Zelda and Mario in the App Store [TS]

  anytime soon I hope not that's a big people keep saying that every Gruber [TS]

  said it today like they should start selling that was sort of like I whether [TS]

  or not that's like I don't think that would be good long-term business [TS]

  strategy for Nintendo the company but as a consumer as someone who plays Nintendo [TS]

  games I would not like that at all because the thing I love about intended [TS]

  as they make our brands offer combined to make a complete game experience they [TS]

  tailor their hardware to fit this offer they want to buy wanna do wanna make and [TS]

  no one else does that to a degree they do love their games and I would not want [TS]

  to play their games on a touchscreen well you're assuming it's a touchscreen [TS]

  or with any of those little control over things that happen now supports like [TS]

  it's not that it's not the same thing like you know I don't think they should [TS]

  do that antenna doesn't think they should do that I don't think that would [TS]

  make anybody happy it was to turn them in to say it was like alright we'll show [TS]

  you that our purposes I guess what does make games now and you know people are [TS]

  not excited about say games even though they are available and say I'm pretty [TS]

  sure like who cares [TS]

  terrible who cares nobody cares whereas even as Nintendo fails if they make a [TS]

  really good Zelda game for the Wii U will make a lot of people very happy [TS]

  even if just a lot of money so I'm one of those people who wants intended to [TS]

  keep being intend oh and I would be willing to like the Japanese garden [TS]

  subsidize them keep making that I think I think people calling for Nintendo DS [TS]

  makes up for iOS is a lot like people who used to call for Apple to just [TS]

  license Mac OS two PC hardware the same thing I think it's you know obviously [TS]

  Nintendo makes a lot of money on their hardware and that's the business there [TS]

  and and and so if you know [TS]

  licensing their games other platforms would be really giving up and and it [TS]

  would it would probably lead to a dramatic shrinking of the company and [TS]

  and probably a lot of ruining of what's best about them [TS]

  the question is you know Apple avoided that by finding another way out of their [TS]

  predicament the question is can tend to do that well in 10 days whether a lot of [TS]

  ups and downs like the Nintendo 64 with the beginning in Tennessee score and the [TS]

  GameCube another pretty big deep trough for like $10 out and then they came in [TS]

  over the weekend now we're you know it's like it's like a roller coaster so [TS]

  they're on their way back down again how long how far down is going to go before [TS]

  they make you turn again like again I think they're protected by the protected [TS]

  by their patients by the determination and by the mountains of money that they [TS]

  make during the high periods that they presumably spend wisely like I don't [TS]

  think they they don't spend money extravagantly they don't have a [TS]

  humongous staffs they are fairly conservative with what they spend with [TS]

  their burn rate is so I'm hoping they can weather the storm and come out the [TS]

  other side [TS]

  alright and with that let's wrap it up for the week thanks luck to her to [TS]

  sponsor this week word box after combat the F word box and noted graphic [TS]

  photograph dotnet / ATP and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin accidental john Kasay [TS]

  it was a Jew and a remarkable [TS]

  what kind of weird reality are we and where I was agreeing with you [TS]

  Marco about enterprise you really do things well you're the two pc user so [TS]

  you saw that you know infection in your coursing through your veins in trace [TS]

  amounts I don't even know how to argue with you on that one [TS]

  probably right I'm surprised you're so happy about the TDS not sure about the [TS]

  state of Nintendo's then but I don't think the prague deserves the like it's [TS]

  not it's not attractive looking either many things it's embarrassing kind of [TS]

  joke name is not attractive looking at looks on gamely an awkward but I think [TS]

  it's an OK product and I said there's this seven vs products that I think you [TS]

  can buy now you can buy be thinking stop by the Des then there's the 3ds 3ds [TS]

  excelled in his DSi 3ds DSi [TS]

  like they added a letter to someone like more Internet connectivity and extra [TS]

  cameras that there's a whole bunch of like they have tons of products to the [TS]

  internet and social things are going better than no place I'd rather have [TS]

  gotten better though you can't seem to have gotten better but they like part of [TS]

  it is that the loss of you like protecting kids and you know like a lot [TS]

  of the things they do are to avoid what happened on the Xbox like a xbox Xbox [TS]

  Live doesnt the best but it's also the place where you go and will immediately [TS]

  be bombarded by teenagers saying racist and thanks to you got a bit of your [TS]

  female right so intended does not have that problem for the most part and has [TS]

  avoided it by keeping people away from each other [TS]

  keeping separated and now they're slowly trying to allow some kind of interaction [TS]

  untrusted basis and you know they're they're trying to avoid becoming Xbox [TS]

  Live which is it which is sad because I live is in with the exception of the 10 [TS]

  year olds swearing at you and calling you names it's actually very successful [TS]

  in other ways ya know it is the best gaming it is the best one and yes it [TS]

  suffers from all those terrible almond butter is they who is doing console [TS]

  online best snow Sony and [TS]

  Microsoft but microsoft also into fashion like is that the price of good [TS]

  online deal with jerks I'm not sure that the price of it but mostly incompetent [TS]

  they didn't have had people to make games like sony has less than $10 like [TS]

  they had a bunch of people make games and hardware and then all of a sudden [TS]

  they're expected to make network services I don't even they must hire [TS]

  people to do that to anyone knows I run a server here awhile like that's been [TS]

  the past many many years but that they are getting better slowly learning but [TS]

  they're doing it very cautiously remember when their first forays was [TS]

  your friend codes which is like a nine digit no exchange because that way you [TS]

  couldn't accidentally see somebody who would say something terrible to your [TS]

  tried to abduct you never write it would only it was so hard to connect with [TS]

  somebody the only people who never connect with you and your best friend in [TS]

  26 tries to anybody actually ever do that I did I we played Mario Kart Wii [TS]

  over the Internet [TS]

  against friends of ours and this was shortly after mario kart wii came out [TS]

  and I was on fire and my friend was on a reasonably quick Comcast connection and [TS]

  it was a total disaster that's not that was the better friend codes for back I [TS]

  think the DSi tell me what it was before the week where the friend codes do with [TS]

  only the bare car we was like that was the improved version now see how much I [TS]

  know I'm still better like they've been slowly making it slightly better and [TS]

  more possible to do but they're a long way from being free for all I think [TS]

  that's probably like the Wii U has a lot of things where people can scroll notes [TS]

  to each other and they must have like a fleet of people like Amazon Mechanical [TS]

  Turk or something like filter out all the paintings drawings and stuff like [TS]

  someone's gotta be moderated like when you if you go to a certain level and you [TS]

  die you call up in america again it'll be like you get to see a little message [TS]

  from somebody keeps dying that you and it's always something nice like I keep [TS]

  dying here like it's not like curses or vulgar drawings are ever since I must be [TS]

  sheltering although now [TS]

  would not want that job no definitely not so our friend Ben Thompson who are [TS]

  talking about at the very top of the show is in the chatroom among banks and [TS]

  he's asking me my thoughts on the new Microsoft how many words in this title [TS]

  the Microsoft ergonomic desktop keyboard it was the successor to the Microsoft [TS]

  Natural ergonomic keyboard 4000 Microsoft doesn't have any problems no I [TS]

  they they have the worst names of any industry especially especially their [TS]

  their non critical products like all the side stuff gets terrible names for the [TS]

  money [TS]

  new super mario brothers Wii enough yes so far we should talk about jeff Atwood [TS]

  keyboard to this is pretty cool that the code keyboard I saw that I don't [TS]

  understand what makes it cool other than some tips which is on the bottom I I can [TS]

  tell you what makes it cool and what makes it [TS]

  PC users makes it cool is that it's a single person's vision for the keyboard [TS]

  should be like that is something that I think Apple fans can get behind like [TS]

  regardless of what the product is like this is a single person's vision tonight [TS]

  he knew exactly what he wanted and he made that in every aspect of this is [TS]

  presumably exactly how jeff Atwood wanted and so that is there is a certain [TS]

  you know attraction to that and he's really like nerds nerds who like jeff [TS]

  Atwood is exactly the kind of guy you wouldn't want to design a keyboard if [TS]

  you're a nerd and you may not like what his decisions are but there's you know [TS]

  that Apple fans can totally get behind this like it's it's an interesting [TS]

  project because it is a singular vision but his singular vision is for keyboard [TS]

  that looks and behaves like that just not tonight I mean I don't think it's [TS]

  even to margo states because he likes this particular right so this is not [TS]

  split because he didn't want that right now it has been keys with long throws a [TS]

  quickie debts are used to like but now I don't know I need [TS]

  a very light pressure short throws like you know for us I really like so it's [TS]

  not a keyboard that I would ever buyer be interested in I i dont think its [TS]

  attractive looking either I think it looks like a PC keyboard because it is a [TS]

  PC or even though you are for the control key I thought I don't think the [TS]

  text on the key caps looks nice you know it's totally does not appeal to me but [TS]

  the idea of it definitely appeals to me and if you want if your interests and [TS]

  keyboard case a line with Jeff I went to this is the one to get because some guy [TS]

  went out there and made something happen that would you know that you could not [TS]

  have made on your own you would like a good one of these seventeen people [TS]

  reserve wanna can really decide what like this guy cut through all the fat [TS]

  and made the keyboard that he wanted to make it was selling it so it's really a [TS]

  very appealing product but I don't think I would ever buy them assuming Marco [TS]

  yeah I i think you know Jeff and the other people involved it like it's [TS]

  mainly on the design concept side they've made a really what appears to be [TS]

  a haven't tried yet but it appears to be a really good implementation of the same [TS]

  old keyboard but using forever and to a lot of people are looking for you know a [TS]

  lot of people like it it's going to appeal to the people who are still [TS]

  holding onto IBM Model M m's or who fuck try to find them on eBay because it's [TS]

  like you know it's like the keyboard and if you want the standard key layout [TS]

  that's been around forever and you want a really good implementation of that [TS]

  then this is the one for you cuz it has everything the geek's love it has the [TS]

  Cherry MX key switches the big lake buena clicky loud ones that are you [TS]

  don't have great feedback [TS]

  quiet her that's an aspect that he won he likes the cookies but didn't like the [TS]

  you know calamitous know is that some of the mix of the chair clear ones are his [TS]

  big keyboard post about the color but yes so it's it's a very good and [TS]

  implementation of the same keeper the parent forever my dream keyboard so I i [TS]

  get this Microsoft many many words ergonomics cult keyboard and so far I've [TS]

  only had it for half of today so obviously this is not any kind of long [TS]

  term impression so far I think it's pretty good [TS]

  good but they they chose to use cookies on it and you know just like you boards [TS]

  and all that was recently boards it so it's like the short through flattop [TS]

  scissor switch on the bottom and it's not machine like the old domes which I [TS]

  mean the old membrane one was it's it's not much like that that was the problem [TS]

  the original Natural 4000 the predecessor to get ahead just thus the [TS]

  machinist crappiest keys and this one has like decent Suzuki's on it I would [TS]

  say probably as good as as you know any Apple laptop keyboard recently possibly [TS]

  even a little bit little bit better a little bit you know spring air or or you [TS]

  know firmer I guess so I like the keys so far I haven't type full-time on Asus [TS]

  a keyboard in a very long time so I don't know if it's going to be better or [TS]

  worse for tensile RSI issues for me but I'm hoping it'll be the same just by the [TS]

  layout should be alright so we'll see about that but my dream keyboard doesn't [TS]

  exist [TS]

  my dream keyboard the way I envisioned it today is basically is this keyboard [TS]

  with jeff Atwood key switches and that as far as I know doesn't exist and [TS]

  everybody always recommend this one keyboard is called truly ergonomic [TS]

  paste the link in the chat everybody always recommends this and they say why [TS]

  have you tried this oh my god and the reason why haven't tried that is because [TS]

  of that ridiculously out as I really do not like economic keyboard that have [TS]

  weird custom layouts and this one is you know as we are glad to go it's kind of [TS]

  moderate like it's not it doesn't go totally crazy at the Kinesis advantage [TS]

  but it's it's kind of in the middle between regular keyboards and that so [TS]

  it's very very strange and I don't like those kind of logic is it that involves [TS]

  a very high learning curve and and it makes it a little bit difficult to go [TS]

  between different computers and I frequently have to use a laptop here and [TS]

  there or discs computer here and there are some computer here and there and so [TS]

  I really like having just one standard keyboard layout at my fingers know are [TS]

  accustomed to and that's it [TS]

  I also think the truly ergonomic one doesn't have the right shape it's not [TS]

  see what makes the Microsoft keyboards great is they have this giant hump and [TS]

  then curves down from there they had this great negative till where the [TS]

  keyboard actually tilted slightly away from you in the relatively vertical [TS]

  direction from you it's also a way from you so that it's extremely comfortable [TS]

  and it and in theory I don't know you know how many studies have proven that [TS]

  in theory it should be very very good for our site prevention so Microsoft has [TS]

  a has a great way of making those key is those keyboards with the best shape and [TS]

  and the most usable layouts but so far its natural four thousand was giant ugly [TS]

  boat with mushy keys and the net the new sculpt ergonomic desktop keyboard his is [TS]

  way better looking i mean it's just you could tell he reviewed just like my [TS]

  initial impressions and it's so obvious like you look at the National 4,000 and [TS]

  you look at if you do a Dell that he do a google image search for Dell Dimension [TS]

  2005 you'll see that's what PCs look like in 2005 when the National 4,000 was [TS]

  designed and it looks to the National 4,000 looks just like the PCs in the day [TS]

  by today's standards it looks ridiculous and not in a good way and so the new [TS]

  Microsoft sculpt the public is quite good looks nice [TS]

  the keys feel pretty good I like it better than the Kinesis freestyle to [TS]

  format for the last year better than that I think it'll be ok my one [TS]

  reservation is on the the key type and it being Suzuki's I'm a little bit [TS]

  worried about that the key to getting [TS]

  any kind of our side benefit us as your keys you can't hit them as hard like [TS]

  right point of them as the activities you but that doesn't mean that people [TS]

  actually don't hit them as hard because people get into the habit of just [TS]

  pressing as hard as they used to have that price and that's actually hard [TS]

  especially when you get like you know you're going to get going to get a big [TS]

  head of steam you may find yourself in the keys as hard as you used to have to [TS]

  hit like your machine keyboard over never used before and that's that's the [TS]

  habit to try to break I guess that's what I had to do right and actually [TS]

  helped a lot like the the Kinesis freestyle 2004 for about the last year [TS]

  has extremely light press key switches for the for that reason it is not [TS]

  Suzuki's but's it's very very light Press regular keys and and so I've kinda [TS]

  gotten used to think so we'll see [TS]

  and that's one of the reasons I like I'm using a balloon keyboard now since I [TS]

  don't type correctly extreme difficulty with any layout changes because like I [TS]

  you know I'm using the wrong hands on their own kids I'm doing everything [TS]

  wrong with it so slick keyboards like paralyze me because you know I can use [TS]

  them but what I try to do is like do everything we can within a standard [TS]

  layout which means that very likely prices but also like to get it to slip [TS]

  away from me like that the Salt Lake stands in the back to torture yourself [TS]

  like like the more you tilted up the worse it is like so even after four [TS]

  thousand for some reason came with those I don't know why they had this big stand [TS]

  you can put on the front lip that lifts it today to get the negative tilt but [TS]

  you don't have to put it on interviews giant stands in the back so you could [TS]

  set up your perfectly awesome natural keyboard to be terrible for you people [TS]

  people expected I know this one the the the clip on front prop thing is still [TS]

  optional although now it's meant the attacks with much cooler but there's no [TS]

  more rear stands those are just gone so you can set this up as terrible as you [TS]

  could the other people who have keyboards and their star office trying [TS]

  to make it level I don't start with that every keyboard including the Apple has [TS]

  some kind of Tilton the wrong direction we're like you know if you put a marble [TS]

  and it would roll downhill into your lap you wanna try making it level to start [TS]

  with that and you can do that by propping you can do that but if you have [TS]

  a keyboard tray just tell them that or whatever [TS]

  and maybe you don't have to go negative with it but you know small change can [TS]

  make a big difference over a long period of time [TS]

  ya jaan I would say you know given what you just said I think you might want to [TS]

  try this keyboard it is I can't display like this had never tried really given [TS]

  like a real solid never never never given it more than a week to week hasn't [TS]

  been enough so many times that is because I just have bad terrible habits [TS]

  are not compatible with a split keyboard layout and the thing is like it rather [TS]

  than adapting I adapt my bad habits to it I end up crossing over one like you [TS]

  know I find myself doing that and then I found all doing is honing my terrible [TS]

  increasingly terrible cross a rabbit on display keyboard so well this one [TS]

  actually has like a physical gap between the haves you could you could like if [TS]

  you want you could stick like a DVD case in that gap to block you from crossing [TS]

  over if you want to train think they would not [TS]

  sharon's students learn Dvorak person next to me work does that aside from [TS]

  being a mild security through obscurity packed with when everybody's computer [TS]

  intended it more difficult for me to school with it because I can probably [TS]

  passed the part where I can learn new keyboard layouts are your keyboard [TS]

  shapes like typing is really not like I don't think that's my biggest issue and [TS]

  you know I don't I think my hand positioning and something that is not as [TS]

  bad as it used to be so I'm just going flattering gamekeeper the right height [TS]

  is like 90% of the problem for was for me anyway I think most people should not [TS]

  be allowed the keyboard way too high and tilted up honestly I really do think you [TS]

  should try this even with DVD case if you need to because I mean obviously you [TS]

  probably have a more severe problem I did but like I was starting to get RSI [TS]

  like sometimes back when I like about a year into my first job after college I [TS]

  was just constantly on the computer and iPad keyboards and the key but I change [TS]

  the keyboard and that was the number one helping things like by far the number [TS]

  one helping as typing [TS]

  you probably made that adjustment because that's when I had my problem was [TS]

  when I had no life [TS]

  and no kid and like I was just on the computer from the moment I woke up into [TS]

  the line I went to sleep when I was working or not constantly typing and [TS]

  that is that's what killed me and you know you have a more balanced life for [TS]

  you [TS]

  only type for certain periods of time and do other things that don't involve [TS]

  timing for some portion of your waking hours amazing things happen so I [TS]

  definitely didn't do that i mean continued not to have a kid not to have [TS]

  a life for about five years after the hell is no changes no reduction in fact [TS]

  probably an increasing computer use after that you are lucky could not do [TS]

  that and no matter what I was using mouse keyboard any shape any anything [TS]

  because I was a man also my keyboard my heroes used to be way to highlight that [TS]

  was my number one thing that it was once I crippled myself was put the keyboard [TS]

  lower so that that's where I got my biggest change may be able to tell [TS]

  similar increase of I had to get a split as well but if I had to split and kept [TS]

  up high I would have still been killing myself so are we getting to the point [TS]

  then in the same way that everyone was making t-shirts dry before WBC is it [TS]

  going to be soon [TS]

  trendy to make your own keyboard is that gonna be like the next big thing I don't [TS]

  think that's something a regular people can do I think you have to think you [TS]

  have to be jet I would make that happen honestly if I had to make one John [TS]

  Siracusa market if I had to make my own keyboard it would probably look a lot [TS]

  like the Apple I would just get the damn function keys away from my number keys [TS]

  and think of me like I know they want to make this small as possible but they're [TS]

  a little dinky function keys being rather be in some cases no reason for [TS]

  that [TS]

  like for years and years I was extended to person and I still have a nice [TS]

  collection of Apple extended to the upstairs and that was my that was my [TS]

  keyboard that I used right up until the part the point where I was you know [TS]

  myself and I still like that better like I don't like as much as the Apple [TS]

  extended to but I recognizes his accuser better for me so like maybe they become [TS]

  more attractive because now I think about having difficulties it feels good [TS]

  but only for a short period of time this does feel worse [TS]

  so I thought plus I think your extended to use for your retirement plan seek [TS]

  it's almost a group that's the plan out like I might keep my left Ctrl key which [TS]

  is apparently only control key a us-based I don't have correctly my left [TS]

  Ctrl key work started sticking and I tried to repair it and it's like I've [TS]

  taken apart Suzuki's many many times Apple's caps and this was the first time [TS]

  that successfully reassemble that can cause things are not easy to put back [TS]

  together like especially if they come apart and you have all the pieces [TS]

  loosing remember how they went and luckily now they have YouTube videos to [TS]

  give you insight but it is a very tricky process anyway I got the key back [TS]

  together after cleaning out and it still sucks I got a new keyboard but that's [TS]

  one downside to Suzuki's is can't service them you can like I was proud of [TS]

  myself are so excited now I feel like I could take off an apple says a lot about [TS]

  excessively after only 15 minutes where the 1 I'm done it will work like it like [TS]

  it did before like it won't be off kilter like it if you look at it [TS]

  such tiny little parts now it's amazing the things functions it also extremely [TS]

  delicate little Flanders and pins and stuff but I there was something else [TS]

  wrong about it I don't know why I was thinking I brought it home with me so I [TS]

  can you know bringing down to the lab and try dancing in an alcohol run it [TS]

  through the dishwasher all the things they say you can do on the web to [TS]

  twenties keyboards [TS]

  the regulars like that when the Grinch gonna take your Christmas treated to [TS]

  check the lights it's not actual app [TS]