The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Everything's gonna be fine on Friday, John.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Podcasting on Friday.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Who thinks such things?

00:00:08 ◼   ► Well it's better because I was trying to sneak in a Saturday podcast.

00:00:13 ◼   ► No, there's no Saturday podcasting in this house right now.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Uh you a hundred percent.

00:00:19 ◼   ► You don't think your family remembers your name at this point?

00:00:23 ◼   ► No, my kids don't even know who I am.

00:00:25 ◼   ► They're just like, Oh, you you once were here.

00:00:28 ◼   ► You once lived in this house and spent time with us.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I feel like this is one of the things podcasting is meant for is

00:00:35 ◼   ► the sort of kvetching that I would never put in print.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Because I love my job.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I do.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Even people from Apple have been like, Hey, are you busy?

00:00:45 ◼   ► You know, you feel like we're we're working yet?

00:00:47 ◼   ► It's like, no, this is why I want to do this.

00:00:49 ◼   ► But on the other hand, yes, I'm exhausted.

00:00:52 ◼   ► And I'm I'm going to LA next week.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I do not believe I'm going to LA.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I had to cut I had to cut it off somewhere and I this

00:01:01 ◼   ► would this would have been my fifth trip to the Bay Area to California

00:01:07 ◼   ► in Yeah, I mean when was the iPhone event the iPhone event was the

00:01:10 ◼   ► first week of September, so that would have been the f the fifth trip

00:01:13 ◼   ► in eight weeks.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Can't do it.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Yeah, that's as much as I you know, it's like you kind of feel

00:01:18 ◼   ► like you offend the products in a way.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Yeah I'm not worried about offending Apple.

00:01:22 ◼   ► It's but like I've really wanted a touchscreen Mac for a long time.

00:01:26 ◼   ► I've been talking about it for a long time, and now I feel like

00:01:28 ◼   ► I've I'm offending it by not going to its launch event.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Aaron Ross Powell And I don't want one and don't think they should make

00:01:36 ◼   ► one and yet I'm going.

00:01:38 ◼   ► So So kinda got it backwards.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Kinda got it backwards.

00:01:42 ◼   ► But we gotta I mean we gotta just spend two hours talking about the

00:01:45 ◼   ► one device.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Everybody wants to hear us talk about the home pod mini two.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I was thinking about the Siri remote.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Oh yes.

00:01:55 ◼   ► I actually could talk about that.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Honestly, the Siri remote might be the sleeper hit of the fall.

00:02:01 ◼   ► And the fact that it has the sound now, the air tag searchability makes

00:02:08 ◼   ► it I I I mean, this could be the best it could be the

00:02:11 ◼   ► best product Apple releases in twenty twenty six.

00:02:13 ◼   ► I mentioned it and I again I don't how much can you complain?

00:02:17 ◼   ► And it's like well a and you don't want to look a gift horse

00:02:20 ◼   ► in the mouth.

00:02:20 ◼   ► They've finally shipped a remote that has the precision find my but the last

00:02:25 ◼   ► remote came out after precision find my they it came out after air tags

00:02:31 ◼   ► and air tags I don't know they're not that expensive what are they twenty

00:02:34 ◼   ► five bucks or something?

00:02:35 ◼   ► You know and the Apple TV even before all the price hikes was expensive.

00:02:40 ◼   ► So the fact that the last generation remote came out after AirTags and didn't

00:02:44 ◼   ► have it.

00:02:45 ◼   ► I feel like none of us complained enough about that in the intervening years.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So it is great that it finally has it, but it should have had

00:02:52 ◼   ► it a generation ago.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And there are all these cases that you can buy to attach the air

00:02:57 ◼   ► tech.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Right.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Crazy.

00:03:00 ◼   ► It's not like they're selling a little fifty dollar fire stick and it comes

00:03:04 ◼   ► with the remote, and how much do you want us to put in there?

00:03:06 ◼   ► The everybody knows the first thing anybody talks about with Apple T V is

00:03:10 ◼   ► it is more expensive than other devices

00:03:13 ◼   ► than that you connect.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So

00:03:16 ◼   ► but I guess we should talk about the duo first.

00:03:19 ◼   ► I think we should talk about the Siri remote.

00:03:21 ◼   ► I think we we you know what?

00:03:23 ◼   ► I bet there's an app that will now turn the display of your Siri

00:03:27 ◼   ► of your duo into a Siri remote that looks like one.

00:03:31 ◼   ► Obviously there's the remote app, but which I've actually been using on the duo.

00:03:36 ◼   ► How are you feeling about your duo review now that we're a couple days

00:03:39 ◼   ► out and everybody else's reviews are out and

00:03:44 ◼   ► Well, I as as you know, it took me some time to get through

00:03:47 ◼   ► your review.

00:03:48 ◼   ► John.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Every night I would sit down to read your review on the duo and

00:03:52 ◼   ► I would fall asleep.

00:03:54 ◼   ► And it doesn't have to do with your great writing, but I've just been

00:03:57 ◼   ► exhausted because I have not stopped working f uh like you like you said

00:04:01 ◼   ► earlier, I don't complain about working.

00:04:03 ◼   ► I have never worked harder in my life because I've simultaneously just had the

00:04:07 ◼   ► craziest product launches, but also I launched a company, right?

00:04:11 ◼   ► So I'm doing all the company stuff and I'm trying to maintain my level

00:04:16 ◼   ► of editorial work at the same time.

00:04:18 ◼   ► So if I haven't stopped working and then when the review published, I just

00:04:22 ◼   ► was like, I'm gonna sleep.

00:04:24 ◼   ► So every night I've been getting in bed at like nine thirty and I'm

00:04:27 ◼   ► reading on my duo.

00:04:27 ◼   ► I really you know I I probably didn't write enough too about how much

00:04:30 ◼   ► I like reading on it because I didn't have time much to read during

00:04:33 ◼   ► the review process.

00:04:34 ◼   ► And then I fall asleep with the duo in my hand reading your review.

00:04:38 ◼   ► So now I just finally finished it and I think my w to answer

00:04:40 ◼   ► your question you c you sometimes you think things and you're thinking about them

00:04:44 ◼   ► and you wanna get them in your review, but you don't really realize you

00:04:46 ◼   ► were thinking about them till you read someone else's review.

00:04:49 ◼   ► And I felt a lot of that throughout your piece.

00:04:52 ◼   ► There's certain points you kept making.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I was like, I really should have talked about how this is not a

00:04:55 ◼   ► great phone, but it is a great tablet.

00:04:57 ◼   ► That was a great framing for it.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And I guess maybe I didn't even feel that way till I read your

00:05:02 ◼   ► piece and it was like, this is just such a smart way to frame

00:05:05 ◼   ► it.

00:05:05 ◼   ► So it was a lot of I feel good about my review, but I

00:05:08 ◼   ► think then you see other people's reviews you're like, Oh, I really could have

00:05:10 ◼   ► made that point harder.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I think I always f I always feel that way.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Um Yeah.

00:05:16 ◼   ► But also I look, i uh we can talk through the all the bumps

00:05:20 ◼   ► of this review.

00:05:21 ◼   ► It was very hard.

00:05:22 ◼   ► It was one of the hardest reviews to write maybe Oh without question.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Because of the changing app ecosystem that was happening and playing out as we

00:05:31 ◼   ► had these devices.

00:05:33 ◼   ► So day one of getting or maybe day zero of getting the device was

00:05:37 ◼   ► very different than day three, then day four, then day seven of when you

00:05:42 ◼   ► publish your review.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:44 ◼   ► Yeah, because there was like it really was, I think and you and me

00:05:49 ◼   ► and Neli had a little three way chat going and it's not super extensive

00:05:53 ◼   ► and it's not like we're being secretive with each other.

00:05:56 ◼   ► It's not a zero sum review competition.

00:05:59 ◼   ► But honestly, I think we're just busy, right?

00:06:01 ◼   ► And so there's not tons of here's it's not like we're sharing drafts of

00:06:05 ◼   ► our reviews with each other, but we're just asking some questions.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I think Ne Lai was the first to ask, Hey, is your duo getting

00:06:12 ◼   ► a little warm?

00:06:13 ◼   ► And it's like yeah, sometimes when the camera runs and just little things like

00:06:17 ◼   ► that.

00:06:18 ◼   ► But we all agreed though that there was like three different periods of third

00:06:23 ◼   ► party app support.

00:06:25 ◼   ► We all I think we all got 'em on Tuesday the week before and

00:06:28 ◼   ► I set it up right away.

00:06:29 ◼   ► I really and I was very happy with a Wednesday embargo.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Eight days huge.

00:06:34 ◼   ► And I can't even imagine with the video that you and Ne Lai and

00:06:37 ◼   ► Alice and and everybody else does.

00:06:39 ◼   ► I can't I I I can't get a print review out on time.

00:06:43 ◼   ► But eight days makes so much bigger difference than seven days.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And when it's six days, which it happens like sometimes I'll have a Wednesday

00:06:51 ◼   ► event and there's two products and one of 'em comes out on Tuesday the

00:06:55 ◼   ► the embargo.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And so you only have six days.

00:06:57 ◼   ► It it makes so much I I can't do it.

00:07:00 ◼   ► I it's like I can't I I I just can't.

00:07:03 ◼   ► But it was like initially it was like, hey, I think I'm gonna have

00:07:06 ◼   ► to spend a lot of time writing about how third party apps suck.

00:07:10 ◼   ► And then by the end of the week, like Friday, it was like, Hey,

00:07:13 ◼   ► and Apple PR help hooked us up with like test flights for some apps

00:07:17 ◼   ► that weren't in the app store yet.

00:07:19 ◼   ► And it was like, Oh, this is not so bad.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And then it was like Monday morning or Tuesday even and it's oh here's

00:07:26 ◼   ► here's a bunch more including some really big names.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Yeah, like Google.

00:07:30 ◼   ► I mean my whole review, that was the the third time I say it

00:07:33 ◼   ► in the piece, it was the third time I shot that section of the

00:07:36 ◼   ► review because the other times I was showing apps that got updated.

00:07:40 ◼   ► And it wasn't these specific developers.

00:07:43 ◼   ► I I actually made a point on the second revision, I wasn't going to

00:07:47 ◼   ► name apps because they could have changed.

00:07:50 ◼   ► So it was like, let me just show as an example and maybe I

00:07:53 ◼   ► named the app that I show as an example.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Cause I can the first drafts were like, here's the group in this group

00:07:59 ◼   ► is Slack and this and this and that.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And then it would change like a day later.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And so I decided, okay, second rewrite, I'm gonna do that.

00:08:07 ◼   ► But even in that second one, I did include some Google apps because that's

00:08:11 ◼   ► my whole home screen is Google Apps.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Then by I wake up Tuesday morning, and by the way, I've been in

00:08:16 ◼   ► touch with Google PR this whole time to let them know, hey guys, isn't

00:08:20 ◼   ► that gonna look good for you?

00:08:22 ◼   ► W you know, it looks really like crap on the screen.

00:08:25 ◼   ► There's giant black bars across your maps app.

00:08:28 ◼   ► It looks ridiculous.

00:08:29 ◼   ► And then it's like Tuesday morning, Google PR clearly didn't really know and they're

00:08:34 ◼   ► like, Oh yeah, you know, we've updated Tyos twenty seven, those apps, and they

00:08:37 ◼   ► look they look fine.

00:08:38 ◼   ► So I'm like, Oh, I'm back in and I'm rewriting and re scripting.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:42 ◼   ► And so I I feel like it worked out well, but I think there

00:08:46 ◼   ► was a lot of editing like yours to either reshoot or rewrite or take

00:08:52 ◼   ► out complaints.

00:08:53 ◼   ► And it's what makes a review like this one difficult because like when you're

00:08:58 ◼   ► reviewing the iPhone 18 Pro a month ago, you don't really have to worry,

00:09:04 ◼   ► like, okay I've got a week with this device.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Is the universe of apps going to change a month from now?

00:09:10 ◼   ► No, it's gonna be the same.

00:09:12 ◼   ► But whereas with this device it's like you kind of want a review that

00:09:15 ◼   ► hits hey, this is the product that is shipping on Friday, October twenty third,

00:09:20 ◼   ► and this is what it's like.

00:09:22 ◼   ► But also you don't spend too much time complaining about the an app situation

00:09:27 ◼   ► that is going to be very different in a few weeks and in a

00:09:32 ◼   ► few months it's probably gonna be over, right?

00:09:34 ◼   ► Like all with with some exceptions, I guess.

00:09:38 ◼   ► How much do you think and Uh and I thought about this and I

00:09:41 ◼   ► don't think we talked about it, but how much do you think we had

00:09:44 ◼   ► I guess I want to call it post traumatic vision pro disorder?

00:09:49 ◼   ► Right?

00:09:50 ◼   ► Because

00:09:51 ◼   ► I I I think that might have played into a little bit about the

00:09:55 ◼   ► initial feelings of oh my god, the apps are terrible.

00:09:59 ◼   ► This is they're gonna ship a device that the apps are terrible.

00:10:03 ◼   ► No one's gonna catch up, and we're gonna all they're gonna have a two

00:10:08 ◼   ► thousand dollar device with no apps and it is insane that they ship this

00:10:12 ◼   ► thing.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Where it was like insane that they shipped a three thousand dollar Vision Pro

00:10:16 ◼   ► that the apps never came.

00:10:19 ◼   ► I th I think we had that as reviewers and I think Apple had

00:10:25 ◼   ► that as the eight hundred pound gorilla in the relationships between developers and customers

00:10:32 ◼   ► and reviewers and everybody.

00:10:33 ◼   ► And I really do think that they looked back at the Vision Pro launch

00:10:38 ◼   ► what is that, two years ago, two and a or close to three years

00:10:42 ◼   ► ago?

00:10:42 ◼   ► And they see that they got bitten by their hubris.

00:10:49 ◼   ► That they just launched this.

00:10:50 ◼   ► They and they they gave developers seven they announced the APIs in June at

00:10:54 ◼   ► WWDC and then the thing comes out in January to largely crickets chirping, right?

00:11:02 ◼   ► Including the big obvious names like Netflix wasn't there or still isn't there, I

00:11:07 ◼   ► think.

00:11:08 ◼   ► YouTube did not have a native app.

00:11:10 ◼   ► And the best experiences on Vision Pro were like watching video.

00:11:16 ◼   ► And they clearly d you know, it it's it's what the platform vendor should

00:11:23 ◼   ► do is evangelize to developers and not just say, Here's the APIs, go f

00:11:28 ◼   ► we just expect you to go build them, but reach out Run sessions.

00:11:33 ◼   ► They have they've had like dozens of sessions around the world where developers could

00:11:37 ◼   ► come in and actually they can't take it with them, but they could actually

00:11:40 ◼   ► see their in-progress apps on duo hardware.

00:11:43 ◼   ► And they they did a great job and are continuing to do a great

00:11:47 ◼   ► job of co marketing the apps that are optimized for duo.

00:11:51 ◼   ► They didn't of that with the vision.

00:11:53 ◼   ► And I think that's where I was a little bit I could almost feel

00:11:56 ◼   ► some of that momentum going into the review process.

00:11:59 ◼   ► I uh like you probably I got a lot of emails from indie developers

00:12:05 ◼   ► about right and that was even coming into this.

00:12:08 ◼   ► But and I just did a piece on that today, just like all these

00:12:12 ◼   ► fun things you can turn your duo into, right?

00:12:14 ◼   ► It's like it really is like first generation iPhone vibes and it's it's super

00:12:17 ◼   ► fun.

00:12:18 ◼   ► I think it I I wanted at some point call these apps stupid, but

00:12:20 ◼   ► they're not stupid because it's just it's clearly developers are having fun.

00:12:24 ◼   ► They know people want to have fun with their new $2,000 phone.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And I think it's wonderful.

00:12:29 ◼   ► But what happened was we got these devices and it's like you restore your

00:12:33 ◼   ► phone, you set it up, and every app on your home screen

00:12:38 ◼   ► looks ridiculous.

00:12:40 ◼   ► But then like we're say like it just each app af day after day

00:12:44 ◼   ► kept getting better.

00:12:45 ◼   ► The meta apps came, the Google apps came, and and look, they're not all

00:12:48 ◼   ► optimized right now for twenty seven dot one, but they're fine.

00:12:53 ◼   ► I think that you've got like the fine apps and then you've got these

00:12:56 ◼   ► others that are really going above and beyond and trying to do better for

00:12:59 ◼   ► this device.

00:12:59 ◼   ► And I think that's also gonna motivate the big companies to do things that

00:13:04 ◼   ► are unique and different because they see the tech community and they see the

00:13:10 ◼   ► people on X and all buzzing about, Oh, look how cool this du this

00:13:13 ◼   ► thing does and that that motivates the the big tech companies to go and

00:13:17 ◼   ► make their apps better for this.

00:13:19 ◼   ► So it isn't a I mean just to be clear, it's it is not

00:13:21 ◼   ► a Vision Pro experience.

00:13:23 ◼   ► A hundred percent.

00:13:24 ◼   ► It's just it's not that at all.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:27 ◼   ► And I think Meta in particular is really pretty interesting.

00:13:31 ◼   ► I'm not a huge uh user of meta's apps.

00:13:34 ◼   ► I mean threads I guess is the one I use the most, but even

00:13:37 ◼   ► I check Instagram and Instagram famously did not have an iPad app until like

00:13:44 ◼   ► last year right?

00:13:46 ◼   ► It was like fifteen years of iPad

00:13:49 ◼   ► and Instagram came out I think the same year, twenty ten.

00:13:52 ◼   ► I don't I I think iPad came out first and and Instagram launched a

00:13:56 ◼   ► f a few months later.

00:13:57 ◼   ► And it they did not have an iPad app until this year.

00:14:01 ◼   ► And I don't think it's a coincidence.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I kind of feel like the improved relationship between Apple and Meta involved them

00:14:09 ◼   ► Apple saying, We're not gonna tell you exactly what we're doing, but maybe you

00:14:13 ◼   ► read the rumors about what we're doing this fall and based on those rumors

00:14:19 ◼   ► you really wanna do the work to have an iPad app, even though that

00:14:23 ◼   ► won't automatically run as a full screen app on something we might be making

00:14:29 ◼   ► this fall, but it would really help.

00:14:31 ◼   ► And here here they are.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It it's not like a half-ass support.

00:14:34 ◼   ► I mean I'm sure they might have more work to do, but it's they're

00:14:37 ◼   ► all almost all of their apps are all the ones I've They're they're really

00:14:41 ◼   ► pretty good.

00:14:42 ◼   ► I I was gonna complain about WhatsApp because WhatsApp was in that middle state

00:14:45 ◼   ► where it always has does take full screen, but it still has the black

00:14:49 ◼   ► strip on the side.

00:14:50 ◼   ► And by the time I was gonna complain about it, they had the native

00:14:52 ◼   ► version out.

00:14:54 ◼   ► They're op truly optimized.

00:14:59 ◼   ► The vibe coded apps?

00:15:00 ◼   ► Like they do they did very little to kind of get by.

00:15:02 ◼   ► I I think that's that look, there's a lot more they could do with

00:15:05 ◼   ► the tablet real estate on the duo, I think for the Instagram app, but

00:15:10 ◼   ► as I said, it's fine.

00:15:12 ◼   ► Right?

00:15:12 ◼   ► It's especially it's not it's not the little window running in the sea of

00:15:16 ◼   ► black.

00:15:17 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:15:18 ◼   ► Like there's they could do something in the in the laptop mode.

00:15:21 ◼   ► They also could do, I think Look, in terms of like just as now

00:15:25 ◼   ► a person who has to post a lot to Instagram, the tools to in

00:15:28 ◼   ► s to post on like the iPhone interface just can get mad ating.

00:15:32 ◼   ► So this is to say I really appreciate what Meta does, but they could

00:15:36 ◼   ► do better.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Well, but this is a certainly a better relationship between the two companies than

00:15:43 ◼   ► there's ever been.

00:15:44 ◼   ► And it just by co this actually I do think the timing is mostly

00:15:48 ◼   ► coincidental, but it is coincidentally timed with the thing last week where Meta's new

00:15:55 ◼   ► local AI model was announced as being the best to run on the new

00:16:01 ◼   ► Mac Studios with five hundred twelve gigabytes of RAM.

00:16:05 ◼   ► And Zuck announced it on X and John Turnus followed it up with Hey,

00:16:10 ◼   ► it was great working with your team.

00:16:11 ◼   ► And it's like those are CEOs who d uh just d did not use

00:16:16 ◼   ► to gladhand and slap each other's backs and now they are.

00:16:20 ◼   ► And if you don't really care about the drama of CEOs and who which

00:16:25 ◼   ► companies hate each other, but you are going to buy an iPhone duo, this

00:16:30 ◼   ► is actually great news for you if you use any of Meta's apps And

00:16:33 ◼   ► there's I don't know, four billion people on the planet who use meta's apps.

00:16:37 ◼   ► So it's good news.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:44 ◼   ► We've got Threads, Instagram, and WhatsApp WhatsApp.

00:16:46 ◼   ► Those were those were key ones that had to to fall, right?

00:16:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:52 ◼   ► What else?

00:16:53 ◼   ► I I I feel I guess I and I today was my day, C

00:16:58 ◼   ► N B C I did it with the iPhone 18 Pro a month ago

00:17:01 ◼   ► too.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I was on for I don't know five minutes this morning on TV so

00:17:05 ◼   ► I'm playing video content creator for five minutes once a once or twice a

00:17:11 ◼   ► year.

00:17:12 ◼   ► I feel like I guess uh so far of the reviews I've read, I'm

00:17:16 ◼   ► grumpier than anybody else, especially about using the outside phone.

00:17:21 ◼   ► But I do feel like you and I are very much aligned about it.

00:17:25 ◼   ► It's

00:17:26 ◼   ► I mean I loved I I was reading through your review and I took

00:17:30 ◼   ► some notes on the duo, which I did text you some some more look

00:17:35 ◼   ► and I think this is another part of this that I think got a

00:17:38 ◼   ► little bit lost, which was like there's the software bugginess of what you call

00:17:42 ◼   ► duo OS, right?

00:17:43 ◼   ► Or you you don't officially call it iPhone Duo.

00:17:46 ◼   ► IOS Duo.

00:17:47 ◼   ► I don't know what to call it, but it is a different flavor of

00:17:50 ◼   ► iOS.

00:17:51 ◼   ► I mean it should have a different name.

00:17:54 ◼   ► And so I think I was I was taking screenshots and finding bugs and

00:17:59 ◼   ► duo s but I was taking screenshots of your review and I thought this

00:18:03 ◼   ► metaphor you had with Transformers was so smart.

00:18:07 ◼   ► It also made me really wonder what kind of kid you were.

00:18:09 ◼   ► I'm gonna just read to you what you wrote here.

00:18:11 ◼   ► You said when I was a kid, when I was a kid when Transformers

00:18:14 ◼   ► hit the toy market, I had a few, every boy my age did, but

00:18:17 ◼   ► I was more of a G.I.

00:18:18 ◼   ► Joe guy.

00:18:18 ◼   ► So it was skip ahead.

00:18:19 ◼   ► We don't need this history.

00:18:20 ◼   ► It always bothered me that as toys, Transformers were clearly compromised in both states.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Folded up, they weren't good cars, trucks, fighter jets.

00:18:30 ◼   ► They had obvious seams and folds.

00:18:33 ◼   ► As a child, John.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:35 ◼   ► You you were noticing these things about the product.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I I did.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I used to hate I hated toys that did not look realistic.

00:18:45 ◼   ► I did not like a toy car that didn't look like a true

00:18:50 ◼   ► two scale version of the car that it represented.

00:18:53 ◼   ► And when I was even younger, I mean the big obsession of like my

00:18:59 ◼   ► single digit childhood was Star Wars.

00:19:02 ◼   ► And the Kenner toys for Star Wars were all over the map where some

00:19:06 ◼   ► of the toys would be like, Oh, that looks exactly like the X Wing

00:19:10 ◼   ► fighter from the movies and some of the toys just look like somebody s

00:19:15 ◼   ► heard a description of the ship from the movies and made the toy.

00:19:19 ◼   ► They were the AI slop version of the toy.

00:19:22 ◼   ► Yeah, and it always bothered me.

00:19:23 ◼   ► It just doesn't look realistic.

00:19:25 ◼   ► I wanted high production values.

00:19:26 ◼   ► And the Transformers always bothered me because you'd fold them up into a car

00:19:30 ◼   ► and you could see where they come apart.

00:19:33 ◼   ► There was no it it it there was no way that you'd ever fool

00:19:38 ◼   ► anybody like if you held it up.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Like which one of these two toy cars do you think is a transformer?

00:19:43 ◼   ► They would be like, Well obviously that one.

00:19:45 ◼   ► But it's like if you slice an apple and then put the slices back

00:19:48 ◼   ► together, you can see that it's a sliced apple and it doesn't really stay

00:19:52 ◼   ► together right.

00:19:53 ◼   ► That it always bothered me.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Production values uh always irritated me and I did not like the transformation the

00:19:59 ◼   ► Transformers for that reason.

00:20:01 ◼   ► And I really and it this had doesn't happen to me with every review

00:20:06 ◼   ► because I don't come up with something like that.

00:20:09 ◼   ► But when I came upon the Transformers metaphor, and I I said this in

00:20:14 ◼   ► dithering but I I was trying to reconstruct how long it took me to

00:20:17 ◼   ► write the review.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And I use BB Edit when I write a long review.

00:20:23 ◼   ► And BB Edit saves automatic backups every couple minutes or every time you do

00:20:28 ◼   ► certain actions.

00:20:29 ◼   ► So there's like a whole folder full of backups.

00:20:32 ◼   ► And at Tuesday morning at nine forty AM, there's the first version, first backup

00:20:39 ◼   ► of the text file where I was writing it and it has one word

00:20:42 ◼   ► in it and the word is transformers.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Like it was like and I I like hit return, return, return to move

00:20:49 ◼   ► it down because it wasn't I wasn't gonna start with it, but I was

00:20:52 ◼   ► like well I wanna remember that point.

00:20:54 ◼   ► It's a really good point.

00:20:55 ◼   ► And I love I love it as a metaphor.

00:20:57 ◼   ► But I also obviously made me th have a lot of questions about young

00:21:01 ◼   ► John.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Yes.

00:21:02 ◼   ► Which I don't know why.

00:21:02 ◼   ► I was not surprised by what John young John was reviewing toys.

00:21:07 ◼   ► But I think it was just such a good metaphor.

00:21:08 ◼   ► And I think also it was funny that it for me, my my two

00:21:11 ◼   ► boys have loved Transformers and the thing that I always notice with them is

00:21:17 ◼   ► they break.

00:21:19 ◼   ► And so obviously I focus my review a lot on is this thing gonna

00:21:23 ◼   ► break?

00:21:24 ◼   ► Because you have a phone that is fundamentally something that is more mechanical parts

00:21:30 ◼   ► than a usual phone, because as you're saying, it transforms into something else and

00:21:36 ◼   ► those sorts of things tend to break.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:38 ◼   ► I got to the point with the transformer metaphor where I knew and this

00:21:42 ◼   ► is the sign that I know that it was good is by the time

00:21:45 ◼   ► it was like Tuesday night, I thought everybody's gonna write about this.

00:21:48 ◼   ► Everybody's gonna use the metaphor to Transformers.

00:21:51 ◼   ► And I thought and I was depressed about it.

00:21:53 ◼   ► And I was like, ah, this is gonna be so obvious.

00:21:57 ◼   ► And I woke up in the morning and I still had like all day

00:22:00 ◼   ► to finish writing my review and I had other stuff on Wednesday.

00:22:03 ◼   ► I I would have actually been soak much closer to the embargo than most

00:22:07 ◼   ► years.

00:22:09 ◼   ► And I would have been even closer, except for some in real life stuff

00:22:12 ◼   ► on Wednesday that I could not move and was important enough to actually delay

00:22:16 ◼   ► the publication of the review by a few hours.

00:22:19 ◼   ► But when I woke up I realized now that it's pr it I bet

00:22:22 ◼   ► nobody else.

00:22:23 ◼   ► A I'm old and Transformer toys.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Although they're still around, right?

00:22:27 ◼   ► I sent you a little bit.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Oh, they're fully around.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:29 ◼   ► No, I mean you send me the picture of Target and I'm like y

00:22:32 ◼   ► like as if I don't know it.

00:22:33 ◼   ► Like I'm there all the time.

00:22:34 ◼   ► Yeah, and I actually but I felt good.

00:22:36 ◼   ► I was in Target this afternoon and I saw this big end cap for

00:22:41 ◼   ► Transformers.

00:22:41 ◼   ► 'Cause that was my other concern.

00:22:42 ◼   ► I was like, How much am I dating myself?

00:22:44 ◼   ► 'Cause my son's twenty two now, so I don't know the toys anymore, right?

00:22:49 ◼   ► And no, no, they're still huge.

00:22:50 ◼   ► I mean I we've got a bunch of them downstairs.

00:22:52 ◼   ► I I couldn't I'm happy to show you them, John, if you want after

00:22:56 ◼   ► I'll send you some pictures of the Transformers.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I but I do think that and that was an angle I thought about

00:23:04 ◼   ► taking with the review and I thought uh I I wrote eighty nine hundred

00:23:07 ◼   ► words.

00:23:08 ◼   ► There's only so many things you can fit in.

00:23:10 ◼   ► But I thought about the fact that you could really spend a lot of

00:23:13 ◼   ► time talking about the hinge, right?

00:23:15 ◼   ► And that is the difference between a two thousand dollar device with Apple's a

00:23:22 ◼   ► team of mechanical engineers designing the hinge probably for years versus Hasbro's team of

00:23:30 ◼   ► people making twenty eight dollar plastic robots.

00:23:33 ◼   ► When how good are the shoulder joints?

00:23:35 ◼   ► Not Not very good.

00:23:37 ◼   ► But this hinge is just a mechanical marvel.

00:23:41 ◼   ► It is very fun to just sort of open and close.

00:23:45 ◼   ► Even if you don't have a robot that you custom ordered to do it.

00:23:51 ◼   ► I mean thirty thirty two thousand times.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Thirty two thousand times.

00:23:56 ◼   ► And it was such a weird process.

00:23:58 ◼   ► So I I it funny enough, like you have this worry that someone's gonna

00:24:02 ◼   ► do the Transformers thing and I have this worry that somebody's gonna do the

00:24:04 ◼   ► folding thing, which somebody did in China.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Uh I saw that, right.

00:24:08 ◼   ► And so it's funny, I had this idea like two weeks ago or a

00:24:11 ◼   ► week ago, and I was like, What are we gonna do for this review?

00:24:13 ◼   ► We're haven't slept in months, I have no good ideas.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And I was like, people really have been asking a lot about the hinge,

00:24:19 ◼   ► a lot about the crease.

00:24:20 ◼   ► What could we do?

00:24:21 ◼   ► So I start looking around for these machines, actual lab grade testing machines.

00:24:27 ◼   ► And I was like, ah, there's no way I'm getting one of these to

00:24:30 ◼   ► New Jersey.

00:24:31 ◼   ► This is not it's not happening in a week.

00:24:33 ◼   ► But I I knew a guy, I know this guy named Aaron Cohen in

00:24:36 ◼   ► New Jersey, who happens to be a great hardware prototyper and designer.

00:24:41 ◼   ► And I I just called them and said I want to open and close

00:24:45 ◼   ► this phone a couple thousand times.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Do you think you can make something?

00:24:48 ◼   ► He's like, Yeah, I can I can make something.

00:24:50 ◼   ► I think I can make something.

00:24:52 ◼   ► And we had no idea if it would work.

00:24:54 ◼   ► We brought the phone over the the second day that I had it and

00:24:57 ◼   ► stuck it in his this the contraption, which it we called Hingey that has

00:25:01 ◼   ► this three D printed well it used it was pretty simple.

00:25:05 ◼   ► It was like a mag safe Holder to to hold the back of the

00:25:08 ◼   ► phone, it put the phone into a case, opened it up into tablet mode,

00:25:12 ◼   ► stuck one side into a three D printed part, and then the server motor

00:25:16 ◼   ► just changes the angle of that little three D printed part.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And so it's like

00:25:21 ◼   ► I I was wowed when I first saw it.

00:25:23 ◼   ► You see that in the video.

00:25:24 ◼   ► I'm just like, wow, it works.

00:25:25 ◼   ► I think we're gonna actually be able to pull this off.

00:25:28 ◼   ► And then I started running it and I thought the machine was gonna break.

00:25:32 ◼   ► I thought it was like I kept wondering who what's gonna break first, the

00:25:34 ◼   ► phone or the machine?

00:25:36 ◼   ► And every morning I would run up here 'cause it was it was I

00:25:39 ◼   ► would set it at eleven o'clock at night, go all night, I had a

00:25:42 ◼   ► Nest camera so I could monitor it.

00:25:44 ◼   ► I'd come up here seven AM every morning to just it's the did I

00:25:48 ◼   ► break this phone?

00:25:49 ◼   ► Because I was petrified at breaking the phone.

00:25:51 ◼   ► We're not supposed to break the phone during review units or during the review

00:25:54 ◼   ► time.

00:25:55 ◼   ► We basically sign away that we're not going to break the phone.

00:25:58 ◼   ► And you're not going to take it apart.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I'm not going to take it apart, which I figured, look, I'm not intentionally

00:26:04 ◼   ► breaking the phone.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:26:07 ◼   ► I felt very safe about that in a way.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And I was like, I'm not taking it apart.

00:26:11 ◼   ► And like psychologically, I kept being like, maybe it is feeling looser.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Maybe it does look different.

00:26:19 ◼   ► But then I would go about my day and I was like, No, this

00:26:21 ◼   ► feels like the same phone I got day one.

00:26:24 ◼   ► So anyway, this whole process was just to prove that yeah, the hinge is

00:26:28 ◼   ► pretty amazing.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Uh uh the one that I saw on YouTube is a guy I never

00:26:34 ◼   ► saw him before, but he is from China.

00:26:36 ◼   ► His name's Tim Pan.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Yes, that's it.

00:26:38 ◼   ► That's right.

00:26:39 ◼   ► They use he's a young guy and he he folded it and unfolded it

00:26:44 ◼   ► five hundred times with his hands and then they used obviously high speed fast

00:26:50 ◼   ► forwarding to go through that and then they put it in a robot and

00:26:53 ◼   ► did ten thousand.

00:26:55 ◼   ► So still nowhere near the thirty two thousand that Hingey did.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Well it was also really funny because when I first had this idea I

00:27:02 ◼   ► was like, you know, what if I make my kids do this?

00:27:04 ◼   ► We were like, Yeah, no, I think that like is seen as child labor.

00:27:08 ◼   ► We probably shouldn't put that on the internet and I was like, Well like

00:27:11 ◼   ► they would probably do it for a little bit if I like promise something

00:27:14 ◼   ► at the end of it.

00:27:15 ◼   ► If I promise a transformer.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Especially though, like what if they developed a blister or something?

00:27:21 ◼   ► You'd you'd feel terrible.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I would totally feel terrible.

00:27:25 ◼   ► But yeah, no, I mean uh look the at the end of the day

00:27:28 ◼   ► we did do some friction testing.

00:27:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and and you obviously had it set up where there was a mag

00:27:35 ◼   ► safe charging cable so it would charge overnight too.

00:27:38 ◼   ► So you No it wouldn't charge.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Oh no it wouldn't.

00:27:40 ◼   ► So you charged it separately from this?

00:27:42 ◼   ► I charged it separately from this.

00:27:43 ◼   ► I powered it off because I didn't want to have any software issues or

00:27:47 ◼   ► whatever.

00:27:47 ◼   ► So I'd powered off.

00:27:48 ◼   ► I would actually what I would do is I would charge it before it

00:27:50 ◼   ► would do the testing overnight because I would wake up at seven o'clock and

00:27:54 ◼   ► then I was like, I need to be testing the battery through the day.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:57 ◼   ► I need to be so and the whole thing was that I needed to

00:28:00 ◼   ► be able to do this at night because I wouldn't be able to do

00:28:02 ◼   ► the rest of the review if I had it in the machine the whole

00:28:05 ◼   ► time.

00:28:05 ◼   ► And I c I ran out of hours to do battery life testing is

00:28:08 ◼   ► what ended up happening.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It's and that is one even with eight days, it is so hard because

00:28:14 ◼   ► a battery test and I I don't typically do them, but I salute everybody

00:28:18 ◼   ► who does while trying to 'cause it's not like when you're on the list

00:28:22 ◼   ► of people to review it in the first week that you can just say,

00:28:26 ◼   ► Oh, and by the way, I want to run battery tests, so can I

00:28:28 ◼   ► have a second one?

00:28:29 ◼   ► Like that it doesn't work that way.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And a battery test by definition takes all day.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I mean like you you like lose a day of review time and you

00:28:37 ◼   ► only have a limited number of reviews.

00:28:39 ◼   ► It's very hard.

00:28:40 ◼   ► But it is information that is at the top of everybody's mind.

00:28:45 ◼   ► Everybody cares about battery life.

00:28:46 ◼   ► You kind of want to tell when Apple in its history tends to be

00:28:51 ◼   ► very honest about their promises of battery life, but that's our job as reviewers

00:28:55 ◼   ► to like trust but verify, right?

00:28:58 ◼   ► I don't know I mean that's how I felt like about the hinge thing.

00:29:00 ◼   ► I was like, look the they've spent a lot of time in that presentation

00:29:04 ◼   ► talking about the hinge.

00:29:05 ◼   ► I I put it in the review, right?

00:29:07 ◼   ► Johnny Struggy is shown two or three times talking about that hinge.

00:29:11 ◼   ► They come back to him, it's so it's talking about the screen, and I'm

00:29:13 ◼   ► like, we it's time to test that.

00:29:15 ◼   ► It's like what else are we gonna test here?

00:29:17 ◼   ► Yeah, and b same with battery life.

00:29:19 ◼   ► I think I s I did my iPhone eighteen pro reviews talking about the

00:29:22 ◼   ► battery life claims because that was the main thing they focused on really with

00:29:25 ◼   ► the Macs, other than the the new aperture settings.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Battery life testing I have a lot of thoughts on.

00:29:30 ◼   ► It's very hard.

00:29:30 ◼   ► It's very hard to do a robot.

00:29:33 ◼   ► You build a robot for that this year too.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Well, I didn't build a robot.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I just bought uh I bought no auto clickers on Amazon.

00:29:41 ◼   ► What was it called, Mr.

00:29:42 ◼   ► Pickle?

00:29:42 ◼   ► Uh yeah, poke the pickle, poke the pickle dot org.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Everybody

00:29:47 ◼   ► where it Yeah.

00:29:49 ◼   ► It's all getting too it's so much easier to do anything with AI these

00:29:52 ◼   ► days.

00:29:53 ◼   ► To me, the icing on the cake, like you're v so good at these

00:29:58 ◼   ► reviews and you're so good at coming up with these premises for the videos,

00:30:03 ◼   ► but the oh, nobody else would do this is that you even give them

00:30:07 ◼   ► names, right?

00:30:08 ◼   ► Hin Hinge has a name.

00:30:10 ◼   ► That's that's the new things touch.

00:30:12 ◼   ► It's not just that you commissioned Aaron Cohen to build a a one off

00:30:19 ◼   ► iPhone duo hinge testing robot that could do thirty two thousand tests over four

00:30:25 ◼   ► nights.

00:30:25 ◼   ► But you gave it a name.

00:30:27 ◼   ► We gave it a name.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And I will say some people came up with some much better names after

00:30:31 ◼   ► we published, like Hingineer.

00:30:33 ◼   ► I think that's what that's a far better name than Hinge.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And maybe we will build Hil Hingineer Two for iPhone Duo DOS is what

00:30:42 ◼   ► I call it.

00:30:43 ◼   ► But we had to start somewhere.

00:30:45 ◼   ► And so please keep sending your name ideas.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Please kinda sending keep sending your testing ideas.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Um But I mean look, I think that like and I think I read

00:30:53 ◼   ► your review too, and I read it as you had fun reviewing this thing.

00:30:56 ◼   ► And I I think Oh, without question.

00:30:58 ◼   ► People who I've been talking to today who are unboxing, and I bet a

00:31:00 ◼   ► lot of your listeners

00:31:02 ◼   ► look, we're critical, but we're not saying this isn't fun.

00:31:06 ◼   ► This isn't some real new platform and exciting time for what Apple's trying to

00:31:10 ◼   ► do.

00:31:10 ◼   ► And I think you're so on it.

00:31:12 ◼   ► I love the end of the review for you, which is this isn't for

00:31:14 ◼   ► me.

00:31:14 ◼   ► But th this this is gonna be for a number of people who want

00:31:17 ◼   ► this kind of more tablet focused phone.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And it's just like it's excit I mean, I felt like I hadn't had

00:31:24 ◼   ► this much fun reviewing a phone since the iPhone ten.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I would I c I could see that.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Except Face ID was huge.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Face ID was like and you're su your review is so on the money

00:31:35 ◼   ► about how important face ID is.

00:31:37 ◼   ► And it's it's very clear Apple just is gonna do that here.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:41 ◼   ► Well, the difference I can think is with the iPhone ten, the difference it

00:31:45 ◼   ► was just as much fun about exploring the novelty and oh this is new

00:31:49 ◼   ► and yes there's software incompatibilities and oh but this app is updated and oh

00:31:54 ◼   ► look how fun it is.

00:31:55 ◼   ► Oh this app isn't the difference for me is that I could tell as

00:31:58 ◼   ► I I could tell when I walked out of the keynote for the iPhone

00:32:01 ◼   ► ten, oh I love this.

00:32:03 ◼   ► I I think they've nailed it.

00:32:04 ◼   ► I think they've redefined the the sort of fundamental metaphor of using the iPhone

00:32:09 ◼   ► software.

00:32:10 ◼   ► And I think I think this is better.

00:32:12 ◼   ► I think I love it.

00:32:13 ◼   ► Whereas with this, I remember even in the keynote thinking, I think this is

00:32:16 ◼   ► the best foldable ever.

00:32:17 ◼   ► And I think they put a lot of nice Apple touches and really, really

00:32:20 ◼   ► thought about certain of these details.

00:32:23 ◼   ► But I think I still think fundamentally this is not a form factor for

00:32:27 ◼   ► me.

00:32:27 ◼   ► And then I got to use it for a a week and the longer

00:32:29 ◼   ► I used it, the more I was like, yeah, this is not for me.

00:32:31 ◼   ► So it was a little less fun that way, but it was still very

00:32:34 ◼   ► fun.

00:32:35 ◼   ► But I think that sums up foldable phones in general.

00:32:38 ◼   ► That's the whole market, right?

00:32:39 ◼   ► There's a reason the Android foldable phones haven't taken off.

00:32:43 ◼   ► And it isn't just because there's an unsightly crease in the middle.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:47 ◼   ► Let's be very clear.

00:32:48 ◼   ► There's a real reason they haven't off.

00:32:50 ◼   ► And that is because of all of the intrinsic things that come at a

00:32:55 ◼   ► compromise from putting a phone with a tablet together.

00:32:59 ◼   ► And so everyone is a smartphone user, but not everyone is a foldable smartphone

00:33:05 ◼   ► user.

00:33:06 ◼   ► That's not the potential the p tip that and that's never gonna be the

00:33:08 ◼   ► full market for Apple.

00:33:10 ◼   ► I d I don't think anyone's fooling and I I there's been some analysis

00:33:13 ◼   ► like this is the future of the iPhone, everyone's gonna have it's gonna be

00:33:15 ◼   ► fully mainstream.

00:33:17 ◼   ► I think it can go more mainstream than any other foldable, but I do

00:33:21 ◼   ► not think every person who has a smartphone wants a foldable phone.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Right.

00:33:25 ◼   ► And I would even if, by the way, you get everything right, you get

00:33:29 ◼   ► the price back, you get all of the stuff back to what what we

00:33:32 ◼   ► expect of an iPhone.

00:33:34 ◼   ► This is not something everyone wants.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I agree.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And I would go back and I thought about this as an angle for

00:33:42 ◼   ► my review a and just sort of I was like, yeah, it's it's not

00:33:47 ◼   ► bad, but I'm gonna go with Transformers.

00:33:49 ◼   ► But No, but I thought about the way that Apple pitched previous major iPhone

00:33:55 ◼   ► announcements when they pitched the iPhone ten specifically.

00:33:59 ◼   ► They were very clear in the keynote for that iPhone.

00:34:03 ◼   ► This is the future of the iPhone.

00:34:05 ◼   ► And and the iPhone eight debuted alongside it.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And it is the most forgotten iPhone ever.

00:34:12 ◼   ► It's if all of the iPhones got together and were anthropomorphized and had a

00:34:18 ◼   ► party, there'd

00:34:20 ◼   ► that?

00:34:20 ◼   ► And it would be like, Oh, that's and they're like, Oh yeah, there was

00:34:23 ◼   ► an iPhone eight, right?

00:34:24 ◼   ► And it's like, ah and it'd be like I'm sorry, buddy.

00:34:28 ◼   ► And like iPhone seven in particular, I think would go up to iPhone eight.

00:34:31 ◼   ► 'Cause iPhone seven was like hot shit when it came out.

00:34:34 ◼   ► It was only had a year in the sun because the iPhone ten came

00:34:37 ◼   ► a year later, but it was like Man, the iPhone seven was the best

00:34:40 ◼   ► version of that that form factor.

00:34:43 ◼   ► And iPhone eight would be like, No, no, I was better.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I had the newer chip.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Like the iPhone eight had the same whatever A.

00:34:49 ◼   ► I don't remember a thing about the iPhone 8.

00:34:51 ◼   ► I I truly yeah.

00:34:53 ◼   ► It was just unforgettable or the most forgettable iPhone.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Yeah, and but it had the newest chip, just like the iPhone ten, whatever

00:35:01 ◼   ► the A whatever was called for that year, probably A eleven.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:06 ◼   ► I did nine years minus A twenty.

00:35:08 ◼   ► I was like that's A eleven.

00:35:09 ◼   ► But the Apple would just it nobody remembered it from the keynote.

00:35:13 ◼   ► It it was a cr if you did were afraid of getting the new

00:35:16 ◼   ► style phone without the clickable home button and touch ID and you thought it

00:35:21 ◼   ► you of course again you weren't doing it at the new things but you're

00:35:25 ◼   ► the one who commissioned the masks for face ID.

00:35:29 ◼   ► I know I know I just found that mask.

00:35:32 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:35:33 ◼   ► I had so much fun making that phone reviewing that phone.

00:35:36 ◼   ► It wasn't the re it was such a fun gimmick that you commissioned like

00:35:41 ◼   ► high quality were they like Hollywood people?

00:35:44 ◼   ► I forget who you got to do them.

00:35:45 ◼   ► They were.

00:35:45 ◼   ► They were.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:35:46 ◼   ► They wanted to charge a lot of money.

00:35:48 ◼   ► I had to talk 'em down because my budget at the time at the

00:35:50 ◼   ► Wall Street Journal is not high.

00:35:54 ◼   ► Much higher here at the New Things.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Yes.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Much higher.

00:35:57 ◼   ► I have full control of what I want to do here at the New

00:35:59 ◼   ► Things.

00:35:59 ◼   ► If I wanna go spend twenty thousand dollars on a mask, I can.

00:36:02 ◼   ► We I wouldn't do that, but just to be clear.

00:36:05 ◼   ► But but it was I can see why Apple did it, because the those

00:36:09 ◼   ► of us like me and you, this is why we do this is why

00:36:12 ◼   ► we're excited to to write these reviews.

00:36:14 ◼   ► We're excited to be exhausted after all of this.

00:36:17 ◼   ► I'm still excited to go out to LA next week and see touchscreen MacBook

00:36:22 ◼   ► Pros I may not like.

00:36:24 ◼   ► But we like to try the new stuff.

00:36:26 ◼   ► And most normal people don't like to try the new stuff.

00:36:29 ◼   ► And people he heard things nine years ago.

00:36:32 ◼   ► All of a sudden there's no touch ID button on the phone and it

00:36:35 ◼   ► just reads your face.

00:36:36 ◼   ► I don't know about that.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:36:38 ◼   ► And it's like, but I need a new phone.

00:36:40 ◼   ► So you go into the store and you I'm sure they sold tens and

00:36:43 ◼   ► tens of millions of iPhone eights to people because they just a hundred percent

00:36:47 ◼   ► they did.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:48 ◼   ► They wanted the one that they definitely did.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Yep.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:50 ◼   ► They wanted the one that was familiar.

00:36:52 ◼   ► But I just remember that's how Apple sold the iPhone ten.

00:36:55 ◼   ► The in a keynote.

00:36:56 ◼   ► They were like, This is the future of the iPhone.

00:36:59 ◼   ► When the original iPhone came out, Steve Jobs was like, This is the way

00:37:03 ◼   ► to to make a smartphone.

00:37:04 ◼   ► You see these ones with the keyboards?

00:37:06 ◼   ► That's stupid.

00:37:06 ◼   ► This is the way all he didn't say this is the way all phones

00:37:09 ◼   ► are gonna be because he didn't want to really think about the fact that

00:37:12 ◼   ► th all the f other brands of phones were gonna do the same thing.

00:37:16 ◼   ► But you could read between the lines, this is the future of all phones.

00:37:19 ◼   ► They didn't sell the iPhone duo that way.

00:37:22 ◼   ► They were it was the the last segment of the keynote.

00:37:25 ◼   ► It was the one more thing.

00:37:27 ◼   ► It was a big deal.

00:37:28 ◼   ► They're they're saying this is a big deal, but there is no way that

00:37:32 ◼   ► and it comes down to the name, right?

00:37:34 ◼   ► Everybody a lot of people thought it was gonna be called iPhone Ultra, right?

00:37:37 ◼   ► And iPhone Ultra, just as a name, would have said this is the best

00:37:43 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:37:44 ◼   ► This is the one, you know, that tops the iPhone Pro.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:37:47 ◼   ► And in hindsight, that's why the name I don't even think they even thought

00:37:50 ◼   ► about it for a second, really.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I d I because it's not I thought it was to be called the

00:37:54 ◼   ► fold, but I don't why I thought thought that either.

00:37:57 ◼   ► I I I absolutely.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And also, yeah, it comes at the end of the presentation and it's called

00:38:01 ◼   ► duo.

00:38:02 ◼   ► It's almost like it kind of implies this is a second phone in a

00:38:05 ◼   ► way.

00:38:05 ◼   ► I mean, and they've done by the way to make this possibly a second

00:38:08 ◼   ► phone for people.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:10 ◼   ► Right?

00:38:10 ◼   ► I didn't get to test it 'cause I have Verizon, but the uh same

00:38:13 ◼   ► here.

00:38:14 ◼   ► What's it called?

00:38:14 ◼   ► They're just

00:38:17 ◼   ► iPhone handoff.

00:38:18 ◼   ► I think a lot of early adopters that get this phone are gonna have

00:38:21 ◼   ► that.

00:38:22 ◼   ► They're gonna say, I don't really want to bring that phone with me here.

00:38:25 ◼   ► But I I I think just when you think about the foldable market

00:38:30 ◼   ► especially that it's been around now for seven, eight years from the Samsung's and

00:38:36 ◼   ► all the all the other players, Googles and Motorola's and Huawei's, it it's not

00:38:41 ◼   ► a considerable size of the market.

00:38:43 ◼   ► And Apple single handedly in the next number of months is going to have

00:38:48 ◼   ► as many units as those companies have sold, likely.

00:38:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:52 ◼   ► And they underst I think they know that.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I think they kinda know that that's the thing.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And this is I think it's particularly irritating for Samsung.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Like Samsung's let I always think of Pepsi.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Pepsi Coke never acknowledges Pepsi.

00:39:06 ◼   ► I think in the history of Coca Cola they have never once even acknowledged

00:39:09 ◼   ► that Pepsi exists and every once a decade, Pepsi comes out with an ad

00:39:14 ◼   ► campaign that talks about Coke, right?

00:39:16 ◼   ► And the Pepsi challenge was specifically taste them side by side, Pepsi and Coke.

00:39:21 ◼   ► And Samsung is clearly the Pepsi, and they have billboards like welcome we've had

00:39:26 ◼   ► a fold for all these years and stuff like that.

00:39:28 ◼   ► And it's like it it gets to them that they've had seven years of

00:39:32 ◼   ► Galaxy folds and now everybody cares about a folding phone.

00:39:36 ◼   ► But I I think the truth I forget the number, but it was like

00:39:39 ◼   ► as I was standing by this morning with ready to go on C N

00:39:43 ◼   ► B C over Zoom or I think it was Zoom, whatever it was.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it was Zoom.

00:39:48 ◼   ► I can watch the five minutes of preceding C N B C and they

00:39:52 ◼   ► had some analysts talking about that there's pretty good expectation that the numbers out

00:39:58 ◼   ► of the supply chain is that Apple has about six and a half million

00:40:03 ◼   ► for the this calendar year.

00:40:05 ◼   ► And it's obviously sold out because if you go to buy one now you

00:40:09 ◼   ► get end of January shipping date.

00:40:12 ◼   ► And that six and a half million foldables sold in this quarter would make

00:40:17 ◼   ► them the number you know more Well, more than all the other foldables combined

00:40:20 ◼   ► for this quarter.

00:40:21 ◼   ► And it's like that's kind of embarrassing if you've been doing it for seven

00:40:25 ◼   ► years.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Have you seen the Everything You See Nathan Fielder documentary?

00:40:30 ◼   ► I did.

00:40:31 ◼   ► And if as busy as I've been, my son and I went to see

00:40:34 ◼   ► it in the uh last weekend and I've been actually I loved it so

00:40:39 ◼   ► much I've been meaning to write about it.

00:40:41 ◼   ► It's one of the most amazing motion pictures I've ever seen in my life.

00:40:44 ◼   ► I went Wednesday after the review and it was like a perfect because it

00:40:48 ◼   ► just took my mind off of everything.

00:40:50 ◼   ► What's reaction to the review all of a sudden like and I'd just been

00:40:52 ◼   ► thinking about iPhones for so long and and folding screens and hinges.

00:40:57 ◼   ► It was amazing.

00:40:58 ◼   ► But But I I don't we we're not gonna do any spoilers on your

00:41:02 ◼   ► podcast.

00:41:02 ◼   ► It's very important to Nathan Fielder that we never spoil this movie.

00:41:05 ◼   ► If you've read any interviews with him, you know that he has no spoilers.

00:41:08 ◼   ► But I think we need to spoil something.

00:41:10 ◼   ► That a character in the movie has a folding Android phone.

00:41:14 ◼   ► Did you notice that?

00:41:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:41:17 ◼   ► And I kept thinking, this is the guy who's had a folding Android phone.

00:41:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And by the way it It's also the same guy who you could see

00:41:31 ◼   ► everything

00:41:32 ◼   ► was the most literal.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Do you realize we don't

00:41:37 ◼   ► spoil anything here, but for people who know and have seen the movie,

00:41:42 ◼   ► you'll get the implication of what we are both saying about this guy who

00:41:46 ◼   ► has the folding Android phone.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Honestly, I uh I that what an ama I we have so much other

00:41:53 ◼   ► stuff to talk about.

00:41:54 ◼   ► But uh I if you're out there listening and you're like, Yeah, you keep

00:41:58 ◼   ► hearing that this is a good movie, this is a good movie.

00:42:00 ◼   ► I'm telling you, this is a groundbreaking movie that it and it it literally

00:42:07 ◼   ► is if you're like I don't really give a shit about Elizabeth Holmes and

00:42:11 ◼   ► Thoranos and it's this has calling this a movie about Elizabeth Holmes and Thoranos

00:42:16 ◼   ► is like saying that two thousand one a space odyssey was about a big

00:42:19 ◼   ► black rectangle buried in the ground.

00:42:22 ◼   ► It's like that great great analogy.

00:42:29 ◼   ► It's just a fantastic movie.

00:42:31 ◼   ► It really is.

00:42:32 ◼   ► But I will say what I want one be I'm gonna take a break

00:42:35 ◼   ► then for a sponsor break.

00:42:36 ◼   ► But before I do, to me one of the most notable things about the

00:42:41 ◼   ► movie was the aspect ratio.

00:42:42 ◼   ► It was shot in four to three.

00:42:45 ◼   ► I know.

00:42:46 ◼   ► I know.

00:42:46 ◼   ► And It kinda bothered me in the theater.

00:42:49 ◼   ► That's I think the movie is beautiful.

00:42:51 ◼   ► I've never seen a documentary.

00:42:52 ◼   ► I don't know how they got some of the shots with the long lenses

00:42:56 ◼   ► they used of close ups.

00:42:58 ◼   ► I think they must have told the subjects for this conversation previously Please hold

00:43:02 ◼   ► you know, hold your spot.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Don't don't move.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Because Wa read the Wired article about it.

00:43:08 ◼   ► He talks about how he set the cameras.

00:43:10 ◼   ► I'll have to.

00:43:11 ◼   ► I I I it's one of those things where I've seen the movie and

00:43:14 ◼   ► haven't read the interviews yet, but I have that wired one open in a

00:43:17 ◼   ► tab to read.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I I read it on my iPhone duo.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Not just you.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Not just you.

00:43:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:24 ◼   ► I love the aspect ratio.

00:43:26 ◼   ► I and it for this movie and the the the places they went and

00:43:31 ◼   ► shot and the way that they framed it uh shooting it in four to

00:43:35 ◼   ► three was brilliant.

00:43:35 ◼   ► The only thing that bothered me was in the theater they clearly projected it

00:43:40 ◼   ► from sixteen to nine or something.

00:43:42 ◼   ► So the the pillar boxes on the side, like letter boxes that go up

00:43:46 ◼   ► and down, weren't pure black because they were projected.

00:43:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:51 ◼   ► And it would have looked even better if they had projected it four to

00:43:54 ◼   ► three so that you would get true inky blackness on the side.

00:43:59 ◼   ► But it's such a small complaint and whatever.

00:44:02 ◼   ► But go see it.

00:44:03 ◼   ► And they're also probably thinking the whole time, wow, this is not gonna look

00:44:06 ◼   ► amazing on my iPhone duo when I watch it there.

00:44:09 ◼   ► No.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Well maybe it would 'cause the iPhone TV isn't isn't that wide, right?

00:44:13 ◼   ► You open it up and it's it four four to three would actually fill

00:44:17 ◼   ► more to the screen.

00:44:18 ◼   ► I don't know it actually I but or y you could turn it the

00:44:22 ◼   ► other way and see how that looks.

00:44:23 ◼   ► I think it's such a groundbreaking movie and I think the four to three

00:44:27 ◼   ► thing is so cool that I think it's gonna start a trend of movies

00:44:30 ◼   ► being shot being shot that way.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Anyway, let me take a break here.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I don't have a special microphone like you do.

00:44:35 ◼   ► You've got a money mic.

00:44:37 ◼   ► I I've gotta use my just regular mic.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I'm happy to license that idea to you, John.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Your money mic is actually shiny too.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:44:46 ◼   ► We that's that's pure gold.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Yeah, it is it I'm jealous every time I see it.

00:44:51 ◼   ► I want to talk to you about Notion.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Hey, I don't know about you.

00:44:55 ◼   ► I work by myself.

00:44:56 ◼   ► I am a one person company.

00:44:58 ◼   ► But I don't like the idea of companies that are like pretending to have

00:45:04 ◼   ► a whole bunch of employees and in fact it is just one guy and

00:45:09 ◼   ► a bunch of AI agents.

00:45:12 ◼   ► I and I do have people I collaborate with, people who edit Caleb Sexton

00:45:16 ◼   ► who edits the show and Joanna, who I talk to while I'm writing my

00:45:21 ◼   ► review throughout the week, Notion isn't built for somebody who just wants to be

00:45:27 ◼   ► one person with like twenty AI agents pretending to be a company of twenty

00:45:31 ◼   ► one people.

00:45:32 ◼   ► It's It's for real people and real teams who are actually collaborating together as

00:45:37 ◼   ► humans, but who want to integrate AI and AI agency into their work.

00:45:43 ◼   ► It's AI workspace where your team's knowledge and projects and agents are all come

00:45:48 ◼   ► together in one place.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Teams using Notion move faster, cut friction and costs by consolidating tools and stay

00:45:57 ◼   ► aligned.

00:45:58 ◼   ► And Notion, your docs, your meetings, your projects, and more all live in one

00:46:04 ◼   ► connected system where AI has the context it needs.

00:46:08 ◼   ► You can learn more about how Notion can support your business at Notion.com slash

00:46:14 ◼   ► talkshow.

00:46:15 ◼   ► That's That's all lowercase letters.

00:46:18 ◼   ► I don't know why.

00:46:19 ◼   ► I don't know who would think to put uppercase letters in a URL, but

00:46:22 ◼   ► they want me to tell you all lowercase letters, notion.com slash talkshow to try

00:46:29 ◼   ► Notion today.

00:46:29 ◼   ► And when you use that link, you are supporting the talk show.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Thank you to Notion.

00:46:34 ◼   ► You know what I'm gonna say about Notion here?

00:46:36 ◼   ► What are you gonna say about Notion?

00:46:38 ◼   ► I'm a big Notion user.

00:46:39 ◼   ► It's on it's on my home screen.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Guess who updated to IOS twenty seven dot one.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Today

00:46:47 ◼   ► must have been in the last two days.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Notion did.

00:46:51 ◼   ► See?

00:46:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:51 ◼   ► So I'm not getting paid by Notion.

00:46:54 ◼   ► I don't have my money, Mike, but let me just tell you, if you

00:46:56 ◼   ► use Notion, you will get it optimized for the duo.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:00 ◼   ► I will just say it's a long story, but there was an extended family

00:47:03 ◼   ► member with some medical problem.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Everything's good, everything worked out.

00:47:07 ◼   ► But I had like some like a recording with a doctor and put it

00:47:12 ◼   ► in notion to get it summarized and it turned a very long recorded conversation

00:47:17 ◼   ► with a lot of information into an incredibly short summary that was like, Yeah,

00:47:22 ◼   ► why didn't the doctor say this?

00:47:24 ◼   ► It's really good.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Before we move on, one thing about the hinge.

00:47:27 ◼   ► I don't know if anybody else did it.

00:47:29 ◼   ► It would have been another angle, but I've noticed this too.

00:47:31 ◼   ► And I I d i i all the other ones or I don't know

00:47:34 ◼   ► about all, but I know Samsung.

00:47:36 ◼   ► The Galaxy Fold eight, whatever.

00:47:39 ◼   ► The one that looks more like this with Z Fold, John.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Z Fold.

00:47:43 ◼   ► It's the Z Fold.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It's IP.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Galaxy Z Fold Eight.

00:47:47 ◼   ► IP Oh, now I've got to enter my goddamn passcode.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Son of a bitch.

00:47:52 ◼   ► This I you can't make this up.

00:47:53 ◼   ► I can't t not.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Do you have your watch on?

00:47:56 ◼   ► Do you have your watch on?

00:47:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Look here.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Vouch for it.

00:47:59 ◼   ► I've you have a watch on.

00:48:01 ◼   ► Just so you guys cause we I know this is audio only, John and

00:48:04 ◼   ► I are both opening our iPhone duos and we're s he obviously tried to

00:48:09 ◼   ► go use the the fingerprint sensor and it stalled and he had to use

00:48:12 ◼   ► the

00:48:13 ◼   ► enter the passcode.

00:48:14 ◼   ► I've typed my passcode more times in in a week than in a year.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Look, there's a lot uh maybe Make your point and then I'll I'll go

00:48:21 ◼   ► into what I Well my point is Apple's says the hint their hinge is

00:48:25 ◼   ► IP sixty eight, which is what the same IP rating as the regular iPhones

00:48:30 ◼   ► or as I call 'em the iPhone Unos.

00:48:32 ◼   ► And the it the way that the IP ratings the IP just stands for

00:48:36 ◼   ► the organization.

00:48:37 ◼   ► The first digit is particles and the second digit is water.

00:48:42 ◼   ► So eight is good.

00:48:44 ◼   ► That's kind of what you can like dunk it in water for some number

00:48:47 ◼   ► of minutes.

00:48:47 ◼   ► And apparently even the Samsung Z fold can do that.

00:48:51 ◼   ► But the four eight for the Z Fold means it's not even like dust

00:48:56 ◼   ► proof.

00:48:57 ◼   ► Dust and pi I forget the size of particles, but it's surprisingly large particles.

00:49:02 ◼   ► And that's been a problem for foldables in the Android world from the get

00:49:06 ◼   ► go.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And I d actually looked back.

00:49:07 ◼   ► It was the first Samsung back seven years ago where the Verges review the

00:49:12 ◼   ► review unit broke two days in because it got a piece of dust in

00:49:16 ◼   ► the hinge and it broke.

00:49:17 ◼   ► It was a huge problem.

00:49:19 ◼   ► It was a huge problem.

00:49:21 ◼   ► I d did not str I didn't take this to the beach.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I didn't dust on it.

00:49:26 ◼   ► But I believe it that this one is IP sixty eight.

00:49:29 ◼   ► It fee and I I don't know how a review would test that, but

00:49:33 ◼   ► the fact that Samsung's been doing this for seven years and there still is

00:49:36 ◼   ► IP four eight, it's a big difference.

00:49:39 ◼   ► It and it means Dustin stuff can get in there.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And it's like this is Apple Apple is saying you don't have to baby

00:49:45 ◼   ► this hinge.

00:49:46 ◼   ► You don't have to baby the whole phone.

00:49:48 ◼   ► I mean I th I look I think the the thing is is that

00:49:50 ◼   ► I think this is the most

00:49:53 ◼   ► how do I say case worthy

00:49:56 ◼   ► iPhone in a really long time.

00:49:58 ◼   ► It it ne it feels like it needs a case.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but I I feel like it's a mistake to put a case on

00:50:04 ◼   ► it.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Well I'm torn on it because i I I the wobble on it when

00:50:10 ◼   ► you put it on the table from the camera is is atrocious.

00:50:14 ◼   ► It I mean it's worse than the any iPhone Pro there's been.

00:50:17 ◼   ► I mean I haven't done significant wobble testing, but it's I mean when you

00:50:20 ◼   ► put it on and you I mean let me just I'll do the sound

00:50:23 ◼   ► effect here.

00:50:27 ◼   ► I mean it's terrible.

00:50:30 ◼   ► I've given up

00:50:32 ◼   ► table wobble.

00:50:34 ◼   ► No, I know, but then you've got I don't know.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I can't believe that I mean and you I can't believe that's a big

00:50:40 ◼   ► thing.

00:50:40 ◼   ► But I haven't been I haven't wanna been wearing a case.

00:50:43 ◼   ► I have gone caseless.

00:50:45 ◼   ► I have been going caseless.

00:50:46 ◼   ► But when I'm going out someplace, like with my kids, like we went apple

00:50:50 ◼   ► picking last week and I was like, I'm bringing putting the case on.

00:50:54 ◼   ► I I feel like you're crazy if you buy this thing and you put

00:50:57 ◼   ► a case on it because it's like the the silic silicone case, it it

00:51:01 ◼   ► has glue.

00:51:02 ◼   ► And you you even said it got it got some of your hair stuck

00:51:05 ◼   ► in it.

00:51:07 ◼   ► I just pulled the case out of my bag and I was like, There's

00:51:09 ◼   ► hair in my case.

00:51:11 ◼   ► It's disgusting.

00:51:13 ◼   ► No, no, I would not get that case.

00:51:14 ◼   ► To be clear, I would not get that case.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:17 ◼   ► The folio seems to me like and I know third parties are gonna have

00:51:20 ◼   ► a hundred of different cases and some of them are not their third party

00:51:23 ◼   ► ones should be less expensive than apples.

00:51:25 ◼   ► The folio one I can totally see somebody using.

00:51:28 ◼   ► I kinda like the tech woven fabric and Oh I love that, yeah.

00:51:33 ◼   ► I think they learned their lesson from the first generation of the fine woven

00:51:37 ◼   ► fabric, which was horrible.

00:51:39 ◼   ► But you d and again you

00:51:42 ◼   ► I I was the leading journalist on the takedown of the Fine Woven case.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Yes.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I mean when when it when they write my obituary they will say things

00:51:50 ◼   ► I killed, the butterfly keyboard and the fine woven case.

00:51:54 ◼   ► I find those are significant

00:51:58 ◼   ► milestones in my career.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Because sometimes it's like I don't know what happens at Apple where there are

00:52:04 ◼   ► times and I feel again I have not read it and watched everybody's review

00:52:09 ◼   ► yet, but it seems like people are just over not overlooking, but it's sorta

00:52:17 ◼   ► like and of course Apple's iPhone is I p sixty eight, and of course

00:52:21 ◼   ► the hinge did well when Joanna and Tim Pan d had a robot fold

00:52:28 ◼   ► it ten thousand times.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Well they're Apple, they're gonna do this right.

00:52:31 ◼   ► They're gonna build it for durability.

00:52:33 ◼   ► But it's the same company that when they said, you know what, we're not

00:52:36 ◼   ► gonna make leather cases anymore, and we've invented a new thing we're calling fine

00:52:40 ◼   ► woven.

00:52:41 ◼   ► And it was like if you use it for a week it got stained.

00:52:45 ◼   ► Well look, this was the same thing.

00:52:46 ◼   ► We were in the briefing together and I was like, Does no one at

00:52:50 ◼   ► Apple use the f ha as left handed?

00:52:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Right?

00:52:53 ◼   ► Because I was like, Is was no one testing this phone have a left

00:52:57 ◼   ► hand or predominantly use a left hand?

00:52:59 ◼   ► And I thought you did a great job talking about that in your review,

00:53:02 ◼   ► but and and look, there's been a lot of backdrops.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I'm not left-handed, so I don't know.

00:53:06 ◼   ► But it does strike me as it would be great if they could move

00:53:10 ◼   ► the dock to the left side.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Or there's more they could have done for the left handed folks.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I I've seen the the pushback that if you're handed there's no reason.

00:53:22 ◼   ► But clearly Apple thinks there's a reason because they're about to release a version

00:53:25 ◼   ► of the software that does some left handed accommodation.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:31 ◼   ► But I think that's what happens.

00:53:32 ◼   ► You don't know how phones and things are gonna or cases or keyboards are

00:53:36 ◼   ► gonna perform until you get it out in the real world.

00:53:39 ◼   ► And they do their best to try to hedge against that, but then sometimes

00:53:43 ◼   ► life literally gets in the way of their products.

00:53:46 ◼   ► And it's funny what Apple wants to explain and what they don't want to

00:53:51 ◼   ► explain.

00:53:51 ◼   ► And it's like they make like a short list of things that they will

00:53:55 ◼   ► explain and if you and in a briefing or a in there they might

00:53:59 ◼   ► even say, We'll tell you way more, we'll put you in touch with somebody

00:54:02 ◼   ► afterwards if you want to go deep on that, sometimes for some specific things.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And then there's other things where they just act like they have no idea

00:54:10 ◼   ► what you're talking about.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know what you're talking about.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And to me, one of those things was the the left handed thing.

00:54:17 ◼   ► They were like and I again we were this was it wasn't back in

00:54:21 ◼   ► September, it was last Tuesday in New York.

00:54:24 ◼   ► I went up and they it was the same day as the home view

00:54:28 ◼   ► and the home pod and the third party, the LG and Schneider locks and

00:54:33 ◼   ► cameras and whatever.

00:54:34 ◼   ► But we were in a small group press briefing to refresh us on the

00:54:40 ◼   ► duo.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I think that's what they called it.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And the let you asked this left handed question and they honestly I felt

00:54:47 ◼   ► like that was one of the ones where they gave us the apple.

00:54:49 ◼   ► We never really heard of this left handed thing.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:52 ◼   ► They never really heard of it.

00:54:53 ◼   ► But yet next month or at the end of this month there's gonna be

00:54:56 ◼   ► an update that does something for those people people.

00:54:58 ◼   ► So they clearly thought about it now.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:01 ◼   ► I think one of the answers to the left handed question one of them

00:55:05 ◼   ► I found, and I just it and I put it in my review because

00:55:08 ◼   ► it it so bothered me.

00:55:09 ◼   ► I it surprised me how much I really do without thinking I never noticed

00:55:14 ◼   ► before.

00:55:14 ◼   ► I use my iPhone left handed a lot.

00:55:16 ◼   ► And I mentioned and it when I told you this, you were very surprised

00:55:19 ◼   ► that I I'm right handed but use my mouse left handed.

00:55:22 ◼   ► And I can play sports a little bit left handed, better than most right

00:55:26 ◼   ► handers.

00:55:26 ◼   ► But I I wouldn't say I'm ambidextrous, just a little bit.

00:55:30 ◼   ► But when I'm brushing my teeth and just throughout the day I I just

00:55:33 ◼   ► pick up my phone from my desk left handed and that corner digs into

00:55:36 ◼   ► your palm in a way that is very uncomfortable and is completely different than

00:55:41 ◼   ► when that nice rounded corner digs into your right hand.

00:55:45 ◼   ► But either way, it you can't reach across unless you have giant, giant hands,

00:55:51 ◼   ► you can't reach across to the other side anyway.

00:55:53 ◼   ► And even if the toolbars on the right, there's there's is stuff on the

00:55:57 ◼   ► left side of the screen.

00:55:58 ◼   ► I mean, that's that's the whole point of a touch screen.

00:56:01 ◼   ► You can't really use this thing one handed.

00:56:04 ◼   ► And that's I think what Apple didn't want to come out and say is

00:56:07 ◼   ► even when it's closed you kinda need to hold it in two hands, right?

00:56:11 ◼   ► And isn't that the classic Blackberry posture?

00:56:14 ◼   ► The classic Blackberry posture is two thumb typing, right?

00:56:18 ◼   ► It's d it wasn't really a you were you were a Blackberry person.

00:56:22 ◼   ► I I don't know.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Did you ever use type your on your Blackberry with one hand?

00:56:26 ◼   ► Uh no, but I also no, I uh I definitely needed two hands for

00:56:31 ◼   ► that.

00:56:31 ◼   ► But I've been using this phone one handed for quite a few things.

00:56:35 ◼   ► I scroll you know.

00:56:37 ◼   ► Scroll.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I think scrolling is a big one.

00:56:40 ◼   ► You can fire off a quick text

00:56:43 ◼   ► with one hand.

00:56:44 ◼   ► Well, I can hit the microphone button so I can dictate a text.

00:56:48 ◼   ► I don't like typing with one hand on this.

00:56:50 ◼   ► And honest honestly, one of one thing too, I expected to drop this phone

00:56:54 ◼   ► a lot.

00:56:54 ◼   ► Again, kind of thinking this is why you'd want a case, right, for your

00:56:58 ◼   ► two thousand dollar phone that you might drop.

00:56:59 ◼   ► But I haven't knock on wood.

00:57:02 ◼   ► With one.

00:57:05 ◼   ► You do have a history of breaking your review.

00:57:07 ◼   ► I really do.

00:57:09 ◼   ► I kept thinking, Oh, I'm definitely gonna drop it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► It's gonna be a great funny pit in the video.

00:57:14 ◼   ► It's not hopefully not gonna break.

00:57:15 ◼   ► But I I really haven't dropped this.

00:57:18 ◼   ► So maybe I don't know.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I I have not

00:57:21 ◼   ► found that the outer screen when it's closed, I I've been fine with one

00:57:25 ◼   ► hand for certain things.

00:57:27 ◼   ► Typing for sure, I need the other hand or I'm I I don't need

00:57:30 ◼   ► it, but if I'm gonna do an email I'm I'm opening the the phone,

00:57:35 ◼   ► which I think you also made such a good point about, and I've been

00:57:37 ◼   ► thinking a lot more about since the review, but because the outer screen, the

00:57:42 ◼   ► phone screen as I call it, is so small, you're often wanting to open

00:57:47 ◼   ► the tablet screen.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:49 ◼   ► Right?

00:57:50 ◼   ► In in all these things where you would just never use the tablet screen,

00:57:53 ◼   ► you would never grab your iPad mini to do certain things.

00:57:56 ◼   ► But because you have it and because that outer screen is so small, yeah,

00:58:00 ◼   ► of course I'm gonna watch this quick video with a bigger screen.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Or I'm co of course I'm gonna read John's review on the bigger screen,

00:58:07 ◼   ► even if I'm like don't have a ton of place where I wanna use

00:58:10 ◼   ► a tablet, which is usually in bed or when I'm on a commute or

00:58:14 ◼   ► something.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:16 ◼   ► No, it you d and I do find that the third implicit option, I

00:58:22 ◼   ► do find myself doing it, which is uh I'll just put it back in

00:58:25 ◼   ► my pocket and wait till later.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Because I don't have I've only got another minute while I'm waiting in line

00:58:31 ◼   ► or as New Yorkers say online.

00:58:33 ◼   ► But I'm in a line at the store and I'm waiting to check out

00:58:36 ◼   ► or I was waiting to pick up sandwiches the other day.

00:58:38 ◼   ► And I knew that I didn't so why do I wanna uh open it?

00:58:42 ◼   ► Then I gotta close it and

00:58:44 ◼   ► uh I'll just wait.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And so I do see that as a potential selling point to some people

00:58:51 ◼   ► where it's like, okay, my quick hit, just look at my notification screen.

00:58:56 ◼   ► And I do think that's a good way to think of the outer screen,

00:58:59 ◼   ► that it's sort of like a stat you know, you check the time, check

00:59:02 ◼   ► your notifications,

00:59:04 ◼   ► just quick flick it up and and press touch ID and quick type something

00:59:10 ◼   ► out.

00:59:10 ◼   ► But you're not gonna really d do stuff on it.

00:59:13 ◼   ► If you really wanna do stuff, you go want to open it up.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And it is awesome when you open it up.

00:59:17 ◼   ► It's such a good little tablet.

00:59:19 ◼   ► It is so good.

00:59:20 ◼   ► But it's like a it's like a production.

00:59:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:59:24 ◼   ► I thought one of my other lines that I really liked w was satisfied

00:59:27 ◼   ► with in my review was if you have to choose between the two verbs

00:59:31 ◼   ► flip and pry to get it open, it's definitely pry.

00:59:35 ◼   ► You have to pry it open.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And And I mean I tried.

00:59:38 ◼   ► I've been trying to do it.

00:59:39 ◼   ► I mean I've seen some some better people like doing a one handed flip.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Oh, I can't do it.

00:59:44 ◼   ► I can't I really can't do it.

00:59:46 ◼   ► No.

00:59:46 ◼   ► I don't know how you do that.

00:59:48 ◼   ► And you you are the one with the most opened duo.

00:59:52 ◼   ► I know of.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Thirty Yeah.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Thir probably thirty three thousand, right?

00:59:56 ◼   ► Thirty two thousand robot folds and at least a thousand from you.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And it's it's still just as hard to open.

01:00:03 ◼   ► And again, I'm not saying it's too hard.

01:00:05 ◼   ► I think that that they've engineered the feel of this and they nailed it,

01:00:08 ◼   ► but it's a two-handed action to open it up.

01:00:11 ◼   ► Well yeah and the magnet from there.

01:00:13 ◼   ► You know, I'm starting to feel like maybe this hinge has gotten stiffer at

01:00:17 ◼   ► this point.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Yeah but stiffer is what is the opposite of what you were worried about.

01:00:21 ◼   ► You were worried it would get loosened.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:00:23 ◼   ► But I think actually what might end up happening and we'll see over time,

01:00:26 ◼   ► but is that it gets stiffer because whatever they've used to sort of for

01:00:30 ◼   ► lack of a better word, lubricate the inside of the of of the hinge,

01:00:35 ◼   ► uh over time that goes away, right?

01:00:37 ◼   ► And you have more of the mechanics inside the hinge and these parts rubbing

01:00:42 ◼   ► up against each other and that becomes stiffer.

01:00:44 ◼   ► So yeah for lack of a lot of better words there.

01:00:47 ◼   ► But I I I don't think uh in my video I showed the just

01:00:51 ◼   ► the the beauty of opening up a Motorola flip phone from the nineties or

01:00:55 ◼   ► that was probably actually it was like early two thousands.

01:00:58 ◼   ► You don't get that.

01:00:59 ◼   ► The

01:01:00 ◼   ► No.

01:01:01 ◼   ► I think people will will use this as like a fidget and they'll be

01:01:04 ◼   ► opening and closing like this and like that.

01:01:06 ◼   ► You're not you're not gonna be opening the whole thing and doing some cool

01:01:11 ◼   ► move there.

01:01:12 ◼   ► It is it's so satisfying to play with and I g maybe the novelty

01:01:16 ◼   ► would wear off if I bought it and was gonna carry it all the

01:01:18 ◼   ► time.

01:01:19 ◼   ► But it is such a fun little fidgety thing that that might be part

01:01:22 ◼   ► of the reason that I find myself locked out of touch ID all the

01:01:25 ◼   ► time is that I'm sitting there playing with it.

01:01:27 ◼   ► I don't know that I complained about it enough in my review.

01:01:30 ◼   ► It was one of those things where I thought, well, I shouldn't complain too

01:01:33 ◼   ► much about it because I think if I owned it and and as the

01:01:36 ◼   ► week went on, I was doing it less.

01:01:38 ◼   ► But I found early on I kept pressing buttons while I was opening and

01:01:42 ◼   ► closing it.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Like the camera control and the the the other button and the volume but

01:01:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:01:47 ◼   ► It's you have to so much buttons.

01:01:49 ◼   ► It's so many button issues.

01:01:52 ◼   ► And what about the w were you I I don't remember if your review

01:01:56 ◼   ► touched on it.

01:01:56 ◼   ► I don't I don't know that it's on the buttons.

01:01:59 ◼   ► Yeah, but for me and Neely, I know it was it's it's which way?

01:02:03 ◼   ► Where's the button?

01:02:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Am I up?

01:02:05 ◼   ► The volume buttons are maddening

01:02:07 ◼   ► They're crazy.

01:02:08 ◼   ► They're crazy.

01:02:09 ◼   ► They're totally crazy.

01:02:10 ◼   ► And I talk on the phone a lot and I'm adjust I'm like trying

01:02:13 ◼   ► to feel for the buttons on the top of the phone.

01:02:16 ◼   ► I mean even when I was taking screenshots of your review with the vo

01:02:20 ◼   ► the phone in tur vertical vertical mode, how many times I turned the phone

01:02:24 ◼   ► off when I was just trying to take a screenshot of your thing and

01:02:27 ◼   ► it's like, oh the phone is off now.

01:02:29 ◼   ► Crap.

01:02:29 ◼   ► What I just I just want to take a screenshot of this.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Which by the way, the way I've gotten around using the buttons a lot

01:02:35 ◼   ► is by talking to Siri.

01:02:37 ◼   ► So maybe this was their intention.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Huh.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Do you find I find it just Siri, adjust the volume.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Siri, take a screenshot.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I'm just like you do it.

01:02:46 ◼   ► I I cannot deal with your buttons.

01:02:48 ◼   ► I find it very hard at times to take a screenshot because it's corner

01:02:53 ◼   ► buttons, right?

01:02:54 ◼   ► The the power button, whatever you want to call it, the touch ID button,

01:02:57 ◼   ► the side button, and the volume button that you need to press together to

01:03:01 ◼   ► take a screenshot.

01:03:02 ◼   ► They're up it on a regular iPhone you just squeeze it, right?

01:03:06 ◼   ► 'Cause they're opposite each other.

01:03:07 ◼   ► It is actually super this is a two handed thing.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Always a two handed thing.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And I found that it's like trying to photograph the camera app, the camera

01:03:19 ◼   ► app UI, it's like you can't because but you you're squeezing it and then

01:03:23 ◼   ► you're twisting it and then whatever you were trying to frame as you took

01:03:27 ◼   ► the screenshot is now at a forty five degree angle.

01:03:30 ◼   ► It's it's I I don't know.

01:03:31 ◼   ► It's But what's the solution?

01:03:33 ◼   ► So is the solution they move the the volume buttons to the right side?

01:03:39 ◼   ► Uh I don't think that's the solution.

01:03:40 ◼   ► I d I'm not sure.

01:03:42 ◼   ► I didn't mention this.

01:03:43 ◼   ► I want to see what you think.

01:03:44 ◼   ► I don't know like they The the regular iPhones have an action button and

01:03:49 ◼   ► a camera control button.

01:03:50 ◼   ► This one they got rid of the action button.

01:03:53 ◼   ► Something had to give.

01:03:54 ◼   ► There's no room for more buttons on this.

01:03:56 ◼   ► But I don't know if this one needs a camera control button.

01:03:59 ◼   ► Like I don't I did not miss the the I did not miss the

01:04:02 ◼   ► action button.

01:04:03 ◼   ► I wish you you can you reassign the camera control to the action button?

01:04:08 ◼   ► No we can't.

01:04:10 ◼   ► So I don't think a nice thing.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I don't I mean I do use the action button for very specific things

01:04:16 ◼   ► that I guess I wasn't really doing on this week.

01:04:19 ◼   ► I can't say I miss it a ton.

01:04:21 ◼   ► I I I I use mine, but and I sometimes say let's say

01:04:27 ◼   ► they look, I don't I I think it's gonna they're gonna put face ID

01:04:32 ◼   ► on the front of this thing eventually.

01:04:33 ◼   ► I just like they're gonna do that, right?

01:04:36 ◼   ► Okay, let's talk about that.

01:04:37 ◼   ► So if they put face ID on the front, do you need the power

01:04:41 ◼   ► button on the side?

01:04:44 ◼   ► Because you don't need to always be unlocking it that way.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Put the volume buttons on the side and put the power button on the

01:04:52 ◼   ► top.

01:04:53 ◼   ► But is that the sort of thing Apple doesn't like to do, which is

01:04:56 ◼   ► move buttons around because if you've already gotten used to the old one, they

01:05:00 ◼   ► don't admit that they had the buttons in the wrong place on the other

01:05:03 ◼   ► one.

01:05:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:04 ◼   ► And if they only put face ID on the f on the front you

01:05:08 ◼   ► would still need touch ID when you're on the inside.

01:05:11 ◼   ► What I have heard from people who no longer work at Apple but maybe

01:05:16 ◼   ► worked on this well, more than maybe, but worked on this before they left

01:05:22 ◼   ► Apple

01:05:24 ◼   ► is that

01:05:25 ◼   ► they they definitely could have had face ID on the front.

01:05:29 ◼   ► And there were people who had worked on this, not like they left over

01:05:33 ◼   ► the summer, but left a year or two ago, who were actually surprised a

01:05:38 ◼   ► month ago at the keynote when they were like, Oh, it's it's no face

01:05:41 ◼   ► ID, it's touch ID where they still thought, Oh, but they just mean only

01:05:45 ◼   ► face ID on the front.

01:05:46 ◼   ► That that at some point like a year or two ago, the debate was

01:05:51 ◼   ► Can we get face ID on both sides engineering-wise and cost-wise?

01:05:57 ◼   ► Is the cost of is this we can't this shouldn't cost four thousand dollars

01:06:00 ◼   ► like Vision Pro.

01:06:01 ◼   ► We have to draw a line somewhere and what they shipped without any face

01:06:05 ◼   ► ID at all was already two thousand dollar starting po point.

01:06:09 ◼   ► But there are people who worked on prototypes of this over a year ago

01:06:14 ◼   ► who were very surprised there's no face ID at all.

01:06:16 ◼   ► That was something they could have done.

01:06:17 ◼   ► And I guess the determination Termination was better to have no face ID at

01:06:21 ◼   ► all than face ID only on the outside.

01:06:24 ◼   ► I don't know if I agree with that.

01:06:25 ◼   ► Because the the argument and this is in my review and Apple said on

01:06:29 ◼   ► the record, which is basically we wanted it to be consistent, that the way

01:06:33 ◼   ► you unlock the phone when it's closed and when you unlock the phone when

01:06:36 ◼   ► it's open is the same to which I say I'm mostly unlocking the phone

01:06:41 ◼   ► as a phone.

01:06:42 ◼   ► And then I'm opening it.

01:06:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:44 ◼   ► Right?

01:06:45 ◼   ► And I don't have to re unlock the phone when that happens.

01:06:49 ◼   ► I just unlock and open and it's unlocked.

01:06:53 ◼   ► So

01:06:54 ◼   ► what would be wrong with that?

01:06:56 ◼   ► I I the scenario I've thought about this and i in the first few

01:07:00 ◼   ► days last week I was like they should have done that.

01:07:03 ◼   ► They should have done exactly what you just said.

01:07:05 ◼   ► And what I found last week was a lot of my days 'cause I

01:07:09 ◼   ► was last week there was I w I'd like work all day and then

01:07:12 ◼   ► at night I was watching playoff baseball and while I was watching baseball on

01:07:17 ◼   ► my TV I was playing with the or new playing with, I guess is

01:07:21 ◼   ► a better word, playing with the duo on the couch only while it was

01:07:26 ◼   ► open.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Once my day was over and it's getting it's ten o'clock at night, I'm

01:07:31 ◼   ► watching baseball.

01:07:32 ◼   ► And if at that point it was like a permanent iPad mini.

01:07:36 ◼   ► And I wasn't

01:07:39 ◼   ► Right, 'cause I'd g I'd put it on the coffee table, get up, go

01:07:42 ◼   ► make popcorn or or something, get another drink out of the fridge or something

01:07:47 ◼   ► like that, and come back and it's Oh, I don't want I'm not folding

01:07:52 ◼   ► it up.

01:07:52 ◼   ► I'm just leaving it 'cause I only want to use the inside screen while

01:07:55 ◼   ► I'm on the sofa.

01:07:56 ◼   ► And I've seen other people even before it started shipping today, I saw it

01:08:00 ◼   ► like all over social media where people were either based on my review or

01:08:04 ◼   ► based on everybody's reviews after Wednesday where they're like This sounds like sort of

01:08:10 ◼   ► not a great phone like when it's in your pocket and you're standing, but

01:08:14 ◼   ► it sounds like the best phone ever when you're on the couch.

01:08:17 ◼   ► And I would agree with that, right?

01:08:19 ◼   ► It is fant but that's because it's already tablet size and you can leave

01:08:23 ◼   ► it tablet size and just put it down on the coffee table and get

01:08:25 ◼   ► up.

01:08:26 ◼   ► And at that point, it would totally be inconsistent not to have face ID

01:08:31 ◼   ► if it was only on the outside.

01:08:33 ◼   ► And the other thing that's worth thinking about and I've noticed this over the

01:08:36 ◼   ► years, Face ID first came out with the iPhone ten nine years ago.

01:08:41 ◼   ► They have still to this date, and this would have been the first device

01:08:45 ◼   ► where they could have broken it and it would have made sense to do

01:08:48 ◼   ► it.

01:08:48 ◼   ► But they've never shipped any device for any platform that has both touch ID

01:08:53 ◼   ► and face ID.

01:08:55 ◼   ► And it's that's not that iPads.

01:08:57 ◼   ► No, none of the iPads.

01:08:58 ◼   ► iPads are either one or the other, iPhones are either one or the other.

01:09:02 ◼   ► Even the Mac only none of the Macs have face ID.

01:09:05 ◼   ► They all have touch ID on a keyboard.

01:09:08 ◼   ► That's the only thing that they have.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And people have been asking about face ID on Macs nonstop ever since the

01:09:15 ◼   ► iPhone ten came out.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And they can talk about and they it's one of those things they talk

01:09:19 ◼   ► around who knows, maybe next week they will have face ID.

01:09:22 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:09:22 ◼   ► Everybody talking about the touch screen, but maybe that'll be one of the things

01:09:25 ◼   ► that they bring too.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:09:26 ◼   ► It's seems kind of weird.

01:09:28 ◼   ► They've never done it, but one of the reasons I think is it's not

01:09:31 ◼   ► that they can't and it's maybe not that it would be like baffling confusing,

01:09:36 ◼   ► but it would be like conflicting.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Oh now you have a payment to confirm.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Which way do you want to do it?

01:09:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:43 ◼   ► And it's one of the little interactions that I think people don't think about,

01:09:49 ◼   ► but it's clever is like when you use your phone to do a payment

01:09:54 ◼   ► like at a a retail store, Apple Pay, you it uses face ID to

01:09:59 ◼   ► confirm that you double click the side button and you have to do a

01:10:02 ◼   ► face ID, but you have to double click the side button even when you

01:10:06 ◼   ► do Apple Pay on the website or something, because face ID wouldn't be enough,

01:10:11 ◼   ► you wouldn't have an app or software just because you're looking at your screen

01:10:15 ◼   ► to trick you into a payment.

01:10:16 ◼   ► The physical payment.

01:10:17 ◼   ► If you're confirming again I want to make this payment.

01:10:21 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:21 ◼   ► So I can s I don't think it would be confusing, but it's it's

01:10:25 ◼   ► just wouldn't be consistent.

01:10:26 ◼   ► Where on the outside you could I think you'd set up one.

01:10:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:30 ◼   ► You'd set up one.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Android phones have this.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Android phones have the ability to do face i whatever the facial recognition term

01:10:38 ◼   ► is that they it's facial recognition.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Or many of the Android phones have under display fingerprint sensors, which I love.

01:10:46 ◼   ► Just the ability to quickly put your finger on the display and swipe up

01:10:50 ◼   ► is great.

01:10:51 ◼   ► But you kinda ha yeah, you you choose you're choosing.

01:10:53 ◼   ► You're like Android's like, here, here's a whole list of ways to get into

01:10:57 ◼   ► your phone.

01:10:57 ◼   ► You decide when you set up your phone.

01:11:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I I but I do wish that they did it.

01:11:03 ◼   ► And it has to be coming.

01:11:05 ◼   ► I I would g I don't know if they're waiting for it already reports.

01:11:08 ◼   ► I don't know if they can do it on b if they're gonna wait

01:11:10 ◼   ► till they can do it on both sides, but it it clearly is a

01:11:14 ◼   ► thing that ought to be coming.

01:11:15 ◼   ► And it's it's one of my biggest gripes about it.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I know Nehai said he got used to it and I've se I've seen

01:11:22 ◼   ► a couple other reviews where they've said they've gotten used to it.

01:11:25 ◼   ► I can't get used to it.

01:11:26 ◼   ► And I have some friends who've never loved face ID you know, who've said

01:11:30 ◼   ► touch ID always worked perfectly for me and face ID often doesn't get it.

01:11:34 ◼   ► And just I have other friends whose fingers have apparently always been invisible to

01:11:37 ◼   ► touch ID, you know.

01:11:39 ◼   ► I think for me, the slim design of this button.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And I a few people have made a really good point, which I haven't.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I did multiple fingers, but I didn't finger registered multiple times.

01:11:52 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't do that either.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Why would you do that?

01:11:53 ◼   ► But that might because then maybe y it gets different parts of your fingers

01:11:58 ◼   ► and it registers you lets you in faster.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe I think it's part of this design, which I did disable the

01:12:04 ◼   ► rest to to h the the rest to unlock, which you know which basically

01:12:10 ◼   ► taking another extra second for you to get in.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Because it wants you to rest your hand, your finger.

01:12:15 ◼   ► So I did disable that.

01:12:16 ◼   ► Yes, and it and it helps a little bit.

01:12:19 ◼   ► The thing that helps the most is just the Apple Watch.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:22 ◼   ► And I we I had a conversation with Mark German about well, not a

01:12:25 ◼   ► conversation, but I he was saying maybe Apple might consider if this touch ID

01:12:29 ◼   ► conversation continues and this I would say backlash, but people don't like it, maybe

01:12:33 ◼   ► they would consider doing the home view facial recognition right?

01:12:37 ◼   ► Using a n or normal using the normal cameras and then another form of

01:12:40 ◼   ► verification.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Which I said like I don't actually think they would do that because I

01:12:45 ◼   ► think they think that the Apple Watch to unlock features fine.

01:12:48 ◼   ► It's good enough that it and and it does.

01:12:49 ◼   ► It to me that was the saving grace.

01:12:51 ◼   ► I have my watch on, now I just swipe in and I'm I it

01:12:54 ◼   ► it works most of the time.

01:12:56 ◼   ► Then people started chiming in saying, Well, that feature never works on the Mac

01:12:59 ◼   ► or at least it can be very flaky on the Mac, which is my

01:13:02 ◼   ► been my experience too, but I don't have that experience on the duo.

01:13:05 ◼   ► The duo is just it I would say ninety five percent of the time

01:13:08 ◼   ► the watch unlocks and I'm fine.

01:13:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:11 ◼   ► I saw that I didn't see the back and forth, but I saw Mark's

01:13:16 ◼   ► original tweet this morning and I just ran out of time, but and I

01:13:20 ◼   ► did not chime in.

01:13:21 ◼   ► But I don't think I think uh he's not thinking through the way Apple

01:13:26 ◼   ► thinks of security.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And it is it's not even just opinion it is actually some technical facts.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Like for example, Apple itself in their own security white paper says that that

01:13:36 ◼   ► face ID is I forget how many thousand thousand times or twenty times more

01:13:40 ◼   ► secure than touch ID or It's a significant factor.

01:13:43 ◼   ► If you're really, really, really concerned about security, face ID is more secure than

01:13:48 ◼   ► touch ID for whatever technical reasons, that fingerprints are more likely to be the

01:13:53 ◼   ► same as somebody else's or look the same than your face.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Which I would have thought would be the other way around, but intuitively, but

01:14:00 ◼   ► I think it's because somehow the world thinks fingerprint I mean that's what we

01:14:04 ◼   ► call it, fingerprinting, right?

01:14:06 ◼   ► Like what did what does what do the ad surveillance ad networks do?

01:14:09 ◼   ► Oh, they fingerprint Print you.

01:14:11 ◼   ► They fingerprint your device.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:14 ◼   ► But the way Apple thinks about it with the home view is you need

01:14:17 ◼   ► a truly secure device on the network.

01:14:20 ◼   ► And the secure devices that are the only ones that are allowed are an

01:14:23 ◼   ► iPad or an iPhone.

01:14:25 ◼   ► So there's no way that they could do the home view style authentication with

01:14:30 ◼   ► your face because you need an iPhone or an iPad.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Well, it isn't your iPhone.

01:14:34 ◼   ► You know, your I that's it's it it becomes a circular thing.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And I I'm not quite sure why and I've asked them and it's one

01:14:41 ◼   ► of those questions they really d they don't say no, I'm not gonna answer

01:14:44 ◼   ► the question, but they don't really answer the question.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Why doesn't your Apple Watch count as a secure device for the home view

01:14:51 ◼   ► if you are just walking around with your Apple watch and you've punched your

01:14:56 ◼   ► number on your wrist or used your iPhone to unlock your watch but it's

01:15:00 ◼   ► still on your wrist, that's not good enough to get you into home view.

01:15:04 ◼   ► It has to be your phone or your iPad pad unlocked recently.

01:15:09 ◼   ► They haven't said how recent recent I think the reason they don't say because

01:15:12 ◼   ► they might change how recent it is.

01:15:14 ◼   ► And so they don't say it's within an hour or two hours or whatever,

01:15:18 ◼   ► because they might change it around.

01:15:19 ◼   ► But it has to have been unlocked recently and has to be present currently

01:15:23 ◼   ► on the home Wi Fi network.

01:15:26 ◼   ► And so maybe I don't know

01:15:28 ◼   ► they don't want you to leave the house with your phone, but you're not

01:15:31 ◼   ► wearing your Apple Watch and your kid knows your number for your watch and

01:15:35 ◼   ► now they can get into your home view.

01:15:37 ◼   ► I don't know what they're

01:15:38 ◼   ► certainly scenarios

01:15:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:47 ◼   ► And I think the other thing they don't want to mess around with, and

01:15:51 ◼   ► it goes all the way back to your video with in 2017 with the

01:15:55 ◼   ► iPhone 10, is they don't want to mix up people's opinions on how accurate

01:16:00 ◼   ► their facial recognition is.

01:16:02 ◼   ► And they don't say, oh, on all the other iPhones it's actually twenty times

01:16:06 ◼   ► more secure than Touch ID.

01:16:08 ◼   ► But on this iPhone, the iPhone Duo, which costs two thousand dollars by the

01:16:12 ◼   ► way, it's actually way less secure because it's just using the camera.

01:16:17 ◼   ► You think about the access that you would have to more such deeply sensitive

01:16:21 ◼   ► things on the iPhone versus a hero.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Oh, it's everything.

01:16:24 ◼   ► It's you know, it's literally not it's not comparable.

01:16:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not even comparable.

01:16:29 ◼   ► So I there's no way they're going to do that.

01:16:31 ◼   ► And they do funny things like they call the front facing camera on the

01:16:37 ◼   ► outside, that's a center stage camera.

01:16:40 ◼   ► And in Apple's parlance center stage means a good front facing camera.

01:16:44 ◼   ► And this isn't as good as the iPhone eighteen pro.

01:16:47 ◼   ► The iPhone eighteen pro and the seventeen pro last year have an eighteen megapixel

01:16:51 ◼   ► center stage camera.

01:16:53 ◼   ► This one is twelve megapixels and and megapixels isn't a exact measurement of camera

01:16:59 ◼   ► quality.

01:16:59 ◼   ► But if they call it center stage though, it's good quality.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And when they call it a FaceTime camera, which is what they call the

01:17:06 ◼   ► one behind the screen on the inside, that means it's not good.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:10 ◼   ► It is not clear they're not going to do that with a facial recognition.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Like face ID means face ID and it means you can trust it and

01:17:18 ◼   ► this is actually seriously secure.

01:17:21 ◼   ► And they're not going to say you can facial unlock, but it's not face

01:17:26 ◼   ► ID and they're not gonna play a game like that when it comes to

01:17:30 ◼   ► security.

01:17:31 ◼   ► I think I think we can be very confident that Apple's working on this.

01:17:36 ◼   ► It is such an obvious second generation or maybe third generation type of feature.

01:17:41 ◼   ► It's just so obvious.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:44 ◼   ► And as as And I and I think you're probably totally right, by the

01:17:48 ◼   ► way, on the reasons why they they did it this way right?

01:17:52 ◼   ► For for price lowering, for consistency, all the things.

01:17:57 ◼   ► And I don't think they're sandbagging it and I don't think they could have

01:18:01 ◼   ► I think they could have done the front alone.

01:18:03 ◼   ► But I feel like they thought, well, let's save it until we can do

01:18:06 ◼   ► both.

01:18:06 ◼   ► And then it is already in the pipeline for a major upgrade a year

01:18:11 ◼   ► from now or two years from now.

01:18:13 ◼   ► And it's not that they're sandbagging the current one to save stuff for the

01:18:17 ◼   ► future.

01:18:18 ◼   ► But it's better than drip drip dripping it in a half ass state, I

01:18:22 ◼   ► think.

01:18:23 ◼   ► As as down as I am over the fact that this uses touch ID

01:18:26 ◼   ► instead of face ID, I kinda get the not wanting to do only the

01:18:30 ◼   ► one side.

01:18:31 ◼   ► But it is frustrating.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Here's another one that I think is coming.

01:18:36 ◼   ► And again, this one isn't it I don't think there are rumors about it.

01:18:40 ◼   ► So I have no idea.

01:18:41 ◼   ► I'm making this up.

01:18:42 ◼   ► I don't have any little birdies who've told me this or that it is

01:18:45 ◼   ► coming.

01:18:45 ◼   ► But I know that it is something Apple's thinking about.

01:18:49 ◼   ► With the last two years of front facing cameras on the phones, they're using

01:18:54 ◼   ► a square sensor.

01:18:56 ◼   ► And that means you can hold the phone in either orientation when you take

01:19:00 ◼   ► a selfie and you can take a wide angle or wide wide aspect radio

01:19:06 ◼   ► aspect ratio shot or a tall screen shot.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Either way that you hold the phone because the sensor's square and a rectangular

01:19:14 ◼   ► frame is just cropped on the the square.

01:19:16 ◼   ► And that's really cool.

01:19:19 ◼   ► I think they should have used a square sensor for the main cameras.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Because then

01:19:26 ◼   ► you could shoot with the main one X camera, you could shoot either way,

01:19:33 ◼   ► no matter which way the phone is opened.

01:19:35 ◼   ► Right?

01:19:36 ◼   ► That's one of one of my biggest complaints in the review is that when

01:19:39 ◼   ► you open this phone,

01:19:41 ◼   ► you don't you don't get a bigger viewfinder than you do on the outside

01:19:45 ◼   ► because when you're holding the phone open and you're holding it horizontally, you're shooting

01:19:50 ◼   ► vertically, and when you're

01:19:52 ◼   ► shooting horizontally, which makes no sense to me.

01:19:55 ◼   ► And I kinda and I asked Apple about it and they said, well, we

01:19:59 ◼   ► th and I guess maybe it's reasonable that they think most people will most

01:20:03 ◼   ► people will shoot most photos on the duo using the outside screen.

01:20:07 ◼   ► So that's why the camera horizontal vertical alignment is aligned with the outside screen.

01:20:13 ◼   ► And maybe they're right.

01:20:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:20:15 ◼   ► I used it as a viewfinder a lot.

01:20:17 ◼   ► I just didn't

01:20:19 ◼   ► dumb of me.

01:20:20 ◼   ► I just never rotated it that way.

01:20:22 ◼   ► But if it used if the main camera sensor was square, then it wouldn't

01:20:27 ◼   ► be a problem.

01:20:28 ◼   ► It they could just do it right either way.

01:20:30 ◼   ► And when they first announced that for the front facing camera and I had

01:20:34 ◼   ► a briefing with the camera team, I'm sure that was last year with the

01:20:36 ◼   ► iPhone seventeen Pro in the air and I talked to the camera team and

01:20:40 ◼   ► I asked them, Well did you guys the I I think that sounds awesome,

01:20:45 ◼   ► but did you I'm sure you guys have thought about it for the main

01:20:48 ◼   ► camera and I knew that they weren't really gonna answer.

01:20:50 ◼   ► And it was one of those answers where the words were they pretended like

01:20:55 ◼   ► they'd never even considered it.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Oh, that's an interesting idea, John.

01:20:58 ◼   ► But the look on their face was sort of like it like in their

01:21:01 ◼   ► eyes was like, Yeah, we thought about it.

01:21:03 ◼   ► And what I have heard from little birdies, again, who don't even work at

01:21:07 ◼   ► Apple anymore, is that the camera team themselves, the people who work on the

01:21:12 ◼   ► camera team at Apple for iPhones, they definitely would love to have square sensors

01:21:17 ◼   ► on all the cameras for this reason.

01:21:20 ◼   ► But other people at Apple, like the the finance people or the operations people

01:21:25 ◼   ► who have to worry about profit margins, don't because it's not like you're cutting

01:21:30 ◼   ► the sensor to make it square.

01:21:31 ◼   ► You're growing the sensor to make it square.

01:21:34 ◼   ► So you have to pay for all those extra pixels and the bigger the

01:21:37 ◼   ► sensor, the more it costs.

01:21:39 ◼   ► So it cuts into the margin.

01:21:41 ◼   ► And you don't really ever use the corners of the sensor.

01:21:46 ◼   ► I mean if you take a square aspect ratio photo, you I maybe you

01:21:52 ◼   ► do, but most people don't shoot square photos.

01:21:54 ◼   ► They shoot either widescreen or tall screen photos.

01:21:57 ◼   ► And so you wind up using using only the middle plus shape, like the

01:22:02 ◼   ► take the the Red Cross logo, right?

01:22:06 ◼   ► You're only really using the red part.

01:22:09 ◼   ► And but Apple, somebody the the operations people have to pay for the corners

01:22:14 ◼   ► that don't really get used and it cuts into the margin of the phone.

01:22:17 ◼   ► And it's also an engineering problem where it because it's a bigger sensor, everybody's

01:22:22 ◼   ► fighting for space inside the iPhone.

01:22:25 ◼   ► But the camera team who cares only about the camera would love to have

01:22:29 ◼   ► square sensors.

01:22:30 ◼   ► And I can't help but think, and again, I don't have a a little

01:22:33 ◼   ► birdie who said, Yeah, they're definitely going to do it for the one X

01:22:36 ◼   ► camera, only that they would love to do it for the one X camera.

01:22:40 ◼   ► So and I can't think of any device where that would be better than

01:22:44 ◼   ► the iPhone Duo because it's the one device where you would.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Yeah, you just want to twist it all the time.

01:22:51 ◼   ► You want it yeah.

01:22:51 ◼   ► I even though I had never really did that with the

01:22:55 ◼   ► I don't know why.

01:22:56 ◼   ► I think I'm just so used to holding my camera up vertically.

01:22:59 ◼   ► It's just yeah.

01:23:00 ◼   ► I was doing it all all week long and it was driving me nuts.

01:23:03 ◼   ► And I was trying to 'cause I you know and I know some people

01:23:06 ◼   ► think oh, it's that w don't you feel embarrassed if you're shooting with this

01:23:11 ◼   ► big tablet in front of your face as a camera?

01:23:13 ◼   ► And it's like uh I don't feel no, I having a big a big

01:23:16 ◼   ► preview.

01:23:17 ◼   ► I wouldn't for every photo I take.

01:23:18 ◼   ► Sometimes you do just want to take your iPhone out quick take a picture.

01:23:22 ◼   ► But if you really are trying to frame something up perfectly, it's fantastic to

01:23:27 ◼   ► have a bigger preview.

01:23:28 ◼   ► And I used it the preview so many times.

01:23:31 ◼   ► I used the bigger viewfinder so many times.

01:23:33 ◼   ► It's just like it it really is a nice way to look at it.

01:23:36 ◼   ► But it's not a bigger viewfinder when you open the inside screen.

01:23:40 ◼   ► But it moves the controls off the preview.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Because that's the other thing when you're when you use the outside screen with

01:23:46 ◼   ► the with the Apple camera app, all of the controls are on top of

01:23:50 ◼   ► the preview, right?

01:23:51 ◼   ► The buttons on top of the preview, everything is.

01:23:54 ◼   ► Are you saying the measurements of the viewfinder is not the same?

01:23:57 ◼   ► It's you still get the same, but you st it shows you through the

01:24:01 ◼   ► black bars the rest of your frame, like where you're gonna see.

01:24:06 ◼   ► It's just it it just doesn't go edge to edge.

01:24:10 ◼   ► But it's still nicer to look at this screen.

01:24:12 ◼   ► You don't think it's nicer to look at this screen than it is to

01:24:14 ◼   ► look at the outside screen?

01:24:15 ◼   ► It's just a nicer screen.

01:24:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:18 ◼   ► It's just yeah, it's a nicer viewfinder.

01:24:20 ◼   ► I get what you're saying, that you're still getting the same Yeah uh aspect

01:24:24 ◼   ► ratio of of the picture but using the the screen even it's like a

01:24:29 ◼   ► it's just a trick.

01:24:30 ◼   ► When you watch video on the iPhone duo, when I watched your video review,

01:24:35 ◼   ► I watched it on the duo.

01:24:37 ◼   ► I opened it up and I held it widescreen to watch your video.

01:24:41 ◼   ► But when you shoot video, you're supp and you're using the inner screen.

01:24:44 ◼   ► If you want to shoot widescreen video, you have to hold it up and

01:24:47 ◼   ► down.

01:24:48 ◼   ► You don't hold it the way that you would watch it because the camera's

01:24:51 ◼   ► aligned the other way.

01:24:52 ◼   ► And if it had a square sensor, then you could do that.

01:24:55 ◼   ► So I feel like that's another thing that they could definitely improve.

01:24:58 ◼   ► They can't magically because a foldable really needs to be thin, because it's every

01:25:04 ◼   ► time you put it in your pocket, it's gonna be twice as thick.

01:25:08 ◼   ► There's the laws of physics about, hey, the thinner a camera is, the worse

01:25:13 ◼   ► the image quality is because the lens is going to be closer to the

01:25:16 ◼   ► sensor, blah blah blah.

01:25:17 ◼   ► But the one thing they could do if they could switch to a square

01:25:20 ◼   ► sensor, it would really help in that regard.

01:25:23 ◼   ► And I would love to see them do that in a year or two.

01:25:26 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:25:27 ◼   ► All right, let me take face ID.

01:25:30 ◼   ► Oh, face ID I would take first.

01:25:31 ◼   ► I would take I would take face ID and take off the the ultra

01:25:36 ◼   ► wide camera lens if that's what it took to get it.

01:25:39 ◼   ► Even though it is very nice to have the ultra wide camera lens.

01:25:42 ◼   ► Face ID and telephoto.

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01:28:51 ◼   ► Anything else from that didn't make it into your review that you wanted to

01:28:54 ◼   ► talk about?

01:28:56 ◼   ► Do you ever use iPhone mirroring?

01:28:57 ◼   ► I'm a big iPhone mirroring user.

01:29:00 ◼   ► On my Mac?

01:29:00 ◼   ► No.

01:29:01 ◼   ► I use it because my main work mac is still on the one of

01:29:06 ◼   ► the main reasons I use it is that I I like using the Apple

01:29:10 ◼   ► Journal app and but my work Mac is still on macOS Sequoia, Mac OS

01:29:16 ◼   ► fifteen, which doesn't have a Mac version of the journaling app.

01:29:20 ◼   ► So I use the journaling app through mirroring.

01:29:22 ◼   ► I'm not writing novels in there, I just little short journal entries so I

01:29:26 ◼   ► can remember what I did on each day.

01:29:28 ◼   ► When you use iPhone mirroring

01:29:30 ◼   ► Journal.

01:29:30 ◼   ► Just the Apple journal app.

01:29:32 ◼   ► Just journal.

01:29:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:33 ◼   ► Oh the Apple Journal app.

01:29:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:34 ◼   ► Oh really?

01:29:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:36 ◼   ► I I should maybe have my head examined for putting so many entries in

01:29:39 ◼   ► there because I don't think it's a great app and I have complaints about

01:29:43 ◼   ► it, but I've it's It like you're journaling about life in there?

01:29:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:47 ◼   ► Just like what happened, you know, wrote about my Saturday and what I did

01:29:51 ◼   ► and went to see a movie with my son and I don't know.

01:29:54 ◼   ► I'm not gonna t tell you what's in my journal, Joanna.

01:29:57 ◼   ► Tell me what's in your journal.

01:30:00 ◼   ► But I use it do you put a lock on it?

01:30:02 ◼   ► Do you put can you do that with the journal app?

01:30:05 ◼   ► Uh you can't.

01:30:06 ◼   ► You can put a lock on any app, actually.

01:30:07 ◼   ► Yeah, and you can put an extra lock on it, but I don't because

01:30:11 ◼   ► I d I trust anybody.

01:30:12 ◼   ► I feel like I would use some maybe more for notes, what you're talking

01:30:15 ◼   ► about.

01:30:15 ◼   ► But I I think it's nice that you use the journal app for such

01:30:18 ◼   ► reflective moments.

01:30:19 ◼   ► And the thing that's nice about journal I should I'd probably be happier in

01:30:23 ◼   ► some ways.

01:30:24 ◼   ► It'd be better to write in the the notes appeared.

01:30:27 ◼   ► But like in the notes app, whenever you update an entry, it sorts entries

01:30:31 ◼   ► by the last time you updated them.

01:30:33 ◼   ► Whereas the journal app, because it's a journal, you can assign a date to

01:30:38 ◼   ► it.

01:30:38 ◼   ► And then even if you add to it later, it stays with the date

01:30:42 ◼   ► that you gave it.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Oh, I'll tell you something I use in the journal app all the time.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Journal app is where I put restaurant reviews.

01:30:48 ◼   ► So whenever we go to a restaurant, I I or not like every restaurant,

01:30:54 ◼   ► but if I I go to Shake Shack, I don't make a a journal

01:30:57 ◼   ► entry.

01:30:57 ◼   ► But if I go to a real restaurant, I will write in it, I'll

01:31:01 ◼   ► put the name of the restaurant as the title, the date, and I'll say

01:31:04 ◼   ► what we got and what we liked or didn't like and I usually attach

01:31:08 ◼   ► a photo of the receipt that has A has a list of everything we've

01:31:12 ◼   ► gotten and shows how much we paid.

01:31:14 ◼   ► But then and this is where like Amy thinks I'm crazy that I do

01:31:19 ◼   ► it, but then when we go to a restaurant we haven't been to in

01:31:22 ◼   ► eight years or eight months.

01:31:25 ◼   ► Yeah, she'll say, What did I think of the shrimp scampy here?

01:31:27 ◼   ► Did I get that before?

01:31:28 ◼   ► And then I can look it up and say that you liked it or

01:31:31 ◼   ► you didn't.

01:31:32 ◼   ► And then but she never thanks me.

01:31:34 ◼   ► She never says thank you because you take these copious notes.

01:31:37 ◼   ► That's really amazing.

01:31:39 ◼   ► You're an amazing partner, I really have to say.

01:31:41 ◼   ► Like you're the AI agent of a of your partner.

01:31:44 ◼   ► Can you please t

01:31:46 ◼   ► I will tell her when I see her.

01:31:48 ◼   ► I will.

01:31:48 ◼   ► I I think I have a number somewhere.

01:31:50 ◼   ► I'll just read you the last time I wrote in the journal app must

01:31:53 ◼   ► have been the launch of the journal app, because it says I'm writing some

01:31:56 ◼   ► feelings in my journal now.

01:31:58 ◼   ► I'm feeling happy and also so sad.

01:32:01 ◼   ► Happy that Apple isn't tracking me in this app.

01:32:05 ◼   ► Thursday, March 28th, 2024, at 324 PM.

01:32:11 ◼   ► Not exactly a regular user of the app.

01:32:13 ◼   ► And then it says insights, entries this year.

01:32:16 ◼   ► Zero.

01:32:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:18 ◼   ► I actually changed you know you can keep different journals in the journal app.

01:32:22 ◼   ► They're sort of like tags rather than different journals, but I only have a

01:32:25 ◼   ► couple.

01:32:26 ◼   ► But I changed the one.

01:32:27 ◼   ► I had one named restaurants and I changed it to Establishments because I also

01:32:32 ◼   ► whenever I stay in a hotel, I make notes about the hotel.

01:32:36 ◼   ► Because there have I been traveling more just for stuff.

01:32:39 ◼   ► And there have been times where I'm like I know I stayed here before.

01:32:42 ◼   ► I don't remember if I liked it or not.

01:32:44 ◼   ► And then I go back and it's like, Oh, I remember I hated this

01:32:47 ◼   ► place because the showers stink or whatever the reason it is.

01:32:51 ◼   ► I mean, I have no time for doing what you're talking about.

01:32:53 ◼   ► I mean maybe I do have time.

01:32:54 ◼   ► Maybe I have to know and I and I'm not writing it for anybody

01:32:57 ◼   ► else to see, so some of them are No, I think this is a

01:33:01 ◼   ► this is a this is a real peek into John as a person as

01:33:05 ◼   ► as where he tracks this information.

01:33:07 ◼   ► I just would never have thought the journal app is a location for this.

01:33:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I'll tell you from I stayed w last week before the Apple thing

01:33:16 ◼   ► because I don't know if you know this.

01:33:18 ◼   ► You probably don't because you don't have to leave New York.