Upgrade

00:00:09 ◼   ► From Relay, this is Upgrade Episode Six Hundred and Forty Three for October twenty

00:00:15 ◼   ► sixth, twenty twenty six.

00:00:17 ◼   ► This show is brought to you by Fitbod, Sentry, Planet Money, and Decagon.

00:00:22 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snow.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Hi Mike Hurley.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Big show today.

00:00:28 ◼   ► There's a lot going on.

00:00:29 ◼   ► This is a big one.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:31 ◼   ► So today we're gonna do two things mainly.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Uh oh actually two and a half now.

00:00:37 ◼   ► It changed a little bit since I wrote the document.

00:00:39 ◼   ► This is one of those days where I spent two hours on a document

00:00:42 ◼   ► this morning, completed it, felt really happy with myself and fifteen minutes later I

00:00:45 ◼   ► had to rip up a section of it and start again.

00:00:48 ◼   ► It's just one of those days 'cause it's that time.

00:00:50 ◼   ► But we're gonna review the iPhone duo.

00:00:52 ◼   ► Um we are and we're gonna do a draft for the event that's happening

00:00:56 ◼   ► later on this week.

00:00:57 ◼   ► We are.

00:00:58 ◼   ► So a lot of stuff to go to, but we have order on this

00:01:01 ◼   ► show and it begins with a snow talk question.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Paul wants to know one of the hosts of my favorite podcast.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Order in the podcast pronounces California as California.

00:01:13 ◼   ► I have always said California.

00:01:15 ◼   ► As the California resident, Jason, which is correct.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Um well as a California, lifelong Californian, I I would call it California.

00:01:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:26 ◼   ► Not California.

00:01:27 ◼   ► California.

00:01:28 ◼   ► But I but people people do this.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Uh the one that I always notice

00:01:33 ◼   ► is Australia, which one of the hosts of one of my favorite podcasts ref

00:01:38 ◼   ► called Calls Australia.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Australia, yeah.

00:01:41 ◼   ► That's what I do.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I think.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Well that makes sense.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I don't do that.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It's Australia.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Which I feel is closer to how Australians say it.

00:01:49 ◼   ► I think Australia Australia's exactly how they say it.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Australia.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Australia.

00:01:54 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Maybe if you're Australian you can let me know uh which one's correct.

00:01:58 ◼   ► But yes, it is funny.

00:02:00 ◼   ► It wasn't until I read this message uh from Paul that I realized that

00:02:03 ◼   ► difference that you would say designed in California and I say designed in California.

00:02:08 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:02:10 ◼   ► California.

00:02:11 ◼   ► California A.

00:02:12 ◼   ► That's me.

00:02:13 ◼   ► If you have a Snell Talk question you would like to help us open

00:02:15 ◼   ► a future episode of the show with, just go to upgradefeedback.com and send in

00:02:20 ◼   ► your Snelltalk question.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Let's just jump right into it.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Let's talk about the iPhone Duo.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Okay, let's do it.

00:02:28 ◼   ► So we have both had iPhone Duos since well I got mine on Friday,

00:02:33 ◼   ► but I spent some time at Apple on Thursday and kind of had a

00:02:37 ◼   ► briefing and went through it.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Uh I got mine Thursday.

00:02:40 ◼   ► You got yours on Thursday, that are that was your unit.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:02:43 ◼   ► So okay, thank you.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Uh I ha I touched it before well yeah anyway.

00:02:47 ◼   ► No I you didn't d we don't need to talk about that.

00:02:50 ◼   ► I offici officially I have two iPhone duos.

00:02:53 ◼   ► I have mine, which is the white one, and I have a review in

00:02:56 ◼   ► it from Apple, which is the navy one.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Uh what do they call it?

00:02:59 ◼   ► Night Sky.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Uh you have a night sky?

00:03:02 ◼   ► Night sky.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:03 ◼   ► And that was your choice is what you would have got.

00:03:05 ◼   ► That was my preference, yes.

00:03:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:07 ◼   ► I am not a white phone person.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I wanna start this conversation today by reading from a post that you put

00:03:15 ◼   ► up.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Um Uh, which you're saying uh was twenty four hours in the splash zone.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Uh which is a just a real it's worth reading just to get all

00:03:22 ◼   ► the reference to that.

00:03:23 ◼   ► It's brilliant.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Uh but I wanna read from what you said here.

00:03:26 ◼   ► I cover technology professionally, but the reason I do that is because I also

00:03:30 ◼   ► love this stuff There is nothing quite like putting your hand on a new

00:03:34 ◼   ► tech product and discovering all of the ways it's amazing or weird or a

00:03:38 ◼   ► failure or most commod or most commonly a mixture of all of the above.

00:03:42 ◼   ► And that's why I'm so excited about the iPhone Duo.

00:03:45 ◼   ► It's a fascinating mixture, showing off Apple at the top of its game in

00:03:49 ◼   ► terms of hardware and software design, while also being fundamentally weird in ways too

00:03:54 ◼   ► numerous to count.

00:03:55 ◼   ► So this was when you'd had not too long with the duo.

00:04:00 ◼   ► You've had many more days since.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Where are you with it right now?

00:04:04 ◼   ► And then we're gonna go in detail on as many areas as we can

00:04:08 ◼   ► possibly think of on this device, but kind of top level how are you

00:04:11 ◼   ► feeling about the iPhone duo?

00:04:13 ◼   ► I mean that's that is still where I am more or less.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Is I think it is brilliant and weird and a work in progress because

00:04:21 ◼   ► the app story the app story is unclear.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Uh even Apple's apps, there are things in them that I think this isn't

00:04:31 ◼   ► right.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Life is just broken.

00:04:33 ◼   ► They they there's stu there are so many visual

00:04:37 ◼   ► bugs like the it it is all over the place and and there was

00:04:42 ◼   ► a bunch of conversation about this and I've seen a bunch of people talk

00:04:44 ◼   ► about it.

00:04:44 ◼   ► Like a Neh at the Verge talked about how fun it is.

00:04:48 ◼   ► And he's like, I mean, it's a mess.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And I don't you can feel simultaneously like it's so fun and also that

00:04:56 ◼   ► probably most people it takes this is a product right now for a certain

00:05:00 ◼   ► kind of person.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And it is like the kind of person who is a tech daredevil who's

00:05:04 ◼   ► like, I I want the latest and greatest and I don't care.

00:05:06 ◼   ► I make it weird.

00:05:07 ◼   ► I want it weird.

00:05:09 ◼   ► Um it's not practical in that way because it's so new that even you

00:05:14 ◼   ► can even see Apple's apps struggling to figure out how to do it.

00:05:19 ◼   ► And I think that Apple will recalibrate and its it its apps will change

00:05:24 ◼   ► to figure out how people use this thing and the right way to do

00:05:27 ◼   ► it.

00:05:27 ◼   ► But it's exciting.

00:05:29 ◼   ► And the the one of the things I mentioned in that piece is

00:05:33 ◼   ► Apple is, and and several reviewers have said this too.

00:05:35 ◼   ► It's not unique to me, but Apple is

00:05:40 ◼   ► so locked down and careful and conservative.

00:05:44 ◼   ► And not like they don't do stuff, but you know, it's that iterative grind,

00:05:49 ◼   ► right?

00:05:50 ◼   ► It's that, well, this is the iPhone 17 Pro, it's better than the sixteen.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Here this is the iPhone 18 Pro.

00:05:55 ◼   ► It's a little better than the 17.

00:05:57 ◼   ► And if you, you know, don't buy a new iPhone for four years and

00:06:00 ◼   ► you look up at the new iPhone, you're like, whoa, it's better.

00:06:03 ◼   ► And it's like, well, yeah, it got there by just kind of slowly grinding.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Ever yeah it got a little bit better in a bunch of different areas.

00:06:09 ◼   ► And that's how Apple likes it.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Apple doesn't like to be embarrassed.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Apple doesn't like to be wrong-footed.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Apple doesn't like to be seen as not knowing everything about every decision it

00:06:22 ◼   ► made about a product and being like, yes this is it.

00:06:26 ◼   ► We thought of everything.

00:06:28 ◼   ► And you make your first folding phone, and guess what?

00:06:31 ◼   ► You can't do that.

00:06:32 ◼   ► You just, you, you gotta be.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I mean they may act like it, but I'm seriously, the iPhone Duo is

00:06:37 ◼   ► very much a

00:06:39 ◼   ► All right, let's uh let's try this.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:42 ◼   ► And I love I find I find that very entertaining as somebody who covers

00:06:45 ◼   ► Apple because you get I've said it on this podcast many times.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Those rare moments where you see Apple sweat are great because they don't want

00:06:53 ◼   ► to let you see them sweat.

00:06:56 ◼   ► They don't they don't want to show their effort in that way.

00:06:58 ◼   ► They want to just kind of put down a finished product and say, look

00:07:01 ◼   ► at the magic.

00:07:02 ◼   ► And yet it's so in instructive and informative and fascinating to to see them

00:07:08 ◼   ► have to work hard and break a sweat and try to figure it out,

00:07:13 ◼   ► because usually that happens all behind the scenes.

00:07:15 ◼   ► And then what they give us is just the end result.

00:07:17 ◼   ► And the iPhone duo duo just feels to me very much like a kind

00:07:21 ◼   ► of product that is.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Still in uh in the works and still they're still figuring it out.

00:07:27 ◼   ► And um we're all gonna sort of figure some of it out together.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And I don't know, I think that's really fun.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely it is.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Like this is a product that is is an exact example of the reason

00:07:40 ◼   ► why we do this show in the first place, right?

00:07:43 ◼   ► It's like here's something interesting to try out and to experience and see how

00:07:49 ◼   ► it progresses over time.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Like Like when I so you know, I I uh I did the thing

00:07:54 ◼   ► on Thurs on Thursday, uh at Battersea where I got to try out the

00:07:59 ◼   ► device and go around to see some apps that some developers were making and

00:08:03 ◼   ► stuff like that.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And I was posting some photos and some videos and it just led to

00:08:07 ◼   ► a lot of people texting me and being like, What do you think?

00:08:09 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:08:11 ◼   ► And all I could say was that I thought it was cool.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Like that was as much as I had the ability to get across after

00:08:20 ◼   ► spending a couple of hours with it.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Like I didn't really have anything

00:08:25 ◼   ► interesting or informative to say at that point.

00:08:28 ◼   ► It's like it's cool.

00:08:29 ◼   ► And you know, part of that is because these kind of demonstration environments, I

00:08:35 ◼   ► don't think that they are crafted in such a way that you could get

00:08:38 ◼   ► a lot of intelligent thought out of it.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Like it's not even my phone.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Like there's like a bunch of texts on here.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I don't these people are, right?

00:08:44 ◼   ► Like exactly none of my apps

00:08:49 ◼   ► I found the phone of a beautiful, active person who lives an idyllic life.

00:08:58 ◼   ► 'Cause of all the demos that's right.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Who really likes to play a a racing game.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Um Sure.

00:09:04 ◼   ► But now

00:09:06 ◼   ► after a few days, I have on the iPhone Duo, I have gone from

00:09:11 ◼   ► saying it's cool to saying I love it.

00:09:14 ◼   ► I am smitten with this phone.

00:09:18 ◼   ► I did not expect to feel this way about it.

00:09:21 ◼   ► You know, is the reason I still bought an 18 Pro this year because

00:09:25 ◼   ► I was convinced that it wouldn't be my phone.

00:09:28 ◼   ► I still don't have an answer to that.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Like I still don't know for sure.

00:09:33 ◼   ► But I love using this phone.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Like I find it fun and interesting.

00:09:40 ◼   ► It feels like it was ripped out of the future.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Like it that's that's definitely got that kind of vibe that the iPhone 10

00:09:46 ◼   ► had where I just taking it out of my pocket, there is this background

00:09:51 ◼   ► thought of like why are you this shape?

00:09:54 ◼   ► Like what is this thing?

00:09:55 ◼   ► Like what is this little rectangle that's the the squary thing in my pocket?

00:10:01 ◼   ► Like and why is it so thick?

00:10:02 ◼   ► Like what is going on?

00:10:03 ◼   ► And I have this thought of like, where did you come from?

00:10:07 ◼   ► And and I find that to be just brilliant as a feeling.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Like it because I've tried tons of phones over the years from different manufacturers

00:10:16 ◼   ► like Samsung phones and Google phones, because I like to try out different form

00:10:19 ◼   ► factors, but just at a base level, I know this is still an iPhone,

00:10:23 ◼   ► it still runs iOS and it's a weird one.

00:10:27 ◼   ► And I love that.

00:10:29 ◼   ► So one of the reasons and I'm just I'm like this.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Like if I see a movie or I finish a book, like I see

00:10:36 ◼   ► a movie and then as we're walking out into the parking lot or whatever

00:10:39 ◼   ► people I'm seeing the movie with will say to me, What'd you think?

00:10:41 ◼   ► And I hate it.

00:10:42 ◼   ► I hate it when people do that.

00:10:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I'm still thinking about it.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:46 ◼   ► I don't I don't I am just not a snap judgment person most of

00:10:49 ◼   ► the time.

00:10:50 ◼   ► And that's really useful for a product like this because my thoughts about the

00:10:55 ◼   ► iPhone Duo, how should we phrase this?

00:10:59 ◼   ► Continue to evolve.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Um, because there's so much and what I don't want to do is jump

00:11:05 ◼   ► to a conclusion and I don't want to rush to judgment.

00:11:08 ◼   ► But one of the ways that and and so I was traveling.

00:11:10 ◼   ► So I actually got the phone in Arizona and used it over the weekend

00:11:15 ◼   ► and it and and then brought it home.

00:11:16 ◼   ► So I I I tried it out as uh you know a a traveling

00:11:22 ◼   ► person.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Just a pretty great experience, right?

00:11:25 ◼   ► Like you're using your phone a lot and you're doing a lot of things

00:11:27 ◼   ► on it in that environment.

00:11:30 ◼   ► But also like I'm an iPad person.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:35 ◼   ► I'm an iPad person.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Like I use my iPad so much in the mornings and in the evenings.

00:11:41 ◼   ► And I'm a big iPad person.

00:11:43 ◼   ► On top of that, I have I use the large iPad Pro.

00:11:47 ◼   ► So So

00:11:48 ◼   ► one of the things that I made a point of doing because I'm I'm

00:11:52 ◼   ► reviewing this product and I really want to understand it is I basically stopped

00:11:58 ◼   ► using my iPad and I have been using this instead of my iPad.

00:12:03 ◼   ► So it's not just instead of my iPhone, it has replaced my iPhone.

00:12:07 ◼   ► But there's a quiet ceremony where we transferred the sim the E sim off

00:12:11 ◼   ► of the iPhone

00:12:13 ◼   ► Cosmic Orange.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Cosmic Orange was well what would you do in the ceremony is you turn

00:12:18 ◼   ► it face down and that's like the sending it into oblivion.

00:12:22 ◼   ► And it gets shut down, you swipe to shut it down, and it goes

00:12:25 ◼   ► dunk and you're like, that's it you're gone.

00:12:28 ◼   ► That's part of my challenge.

00:12:29 ◼   ► And that's one of the things that I've been getting through is like the

00:12:32 ◼   ► theory was this is like a little iPad mini.

00:12:35 ◼   ► It's an iPad mini, mini.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And

00:12:39 ◼   ► my very first impression of this was

00:12:43 ◼   ► it's not.

00:12:44 ◼   ► It's not and and this is what I've told a few people since then

00:12:49 ◼   ► is like, this is not an iPad.

00:12:53 ◼   ► This is an iPhone.

00:12:54 ◼   ► It's an iPhone with a big tablet-like screen.

00:12:58 ◼   ► But one of the things that I had to come to an understanding about

00:13:03 ◼   ► is I was trying to apply iPad logic

00:13:07 ◼   ► to an iPhone.

00:13:09 ◼   ► And I need to not do that.

00:13:11 ◼   ► They didn't put iPad apps on it.

00:13:13 ◼   ► It's iPhone apps that have been modified to fit it.

00:13:17 ◼   ► It's small.

00:13:18 ◼   ► It's got some very particular ways that it works.

00:13:21 ◼   ► The keyboard for me, the keyboard is really different.

00:13:24 ◼   ► The use case, and again, this is where apps are going to evolve.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Like I I like having a little sidebar open on my iPad so I

00:13:32 ◼   ► can go kind of tap check this, tap, check that, tap check this.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And most apps on the the iPhone Duo, it's more like I gotta swipe

00:13:41 ◼   ► it open, maybe swipe it again, tap, swipe it open, swipe it again, tap.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Like it's a totally different cause it's a much more compact experience and it

00:13:48 ◼   ► is not picking up those iPad things.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So

00:13:53 ◼   ► that took a lot of time and and and and really made me have

00:13:57 ◼   ► to think about like how do I interact with this thing?

00:14:01 ◼   ► The the thing is Interacting with it on Sunday

00:14:06 ◼   ► was so much more familiar than interacting with it on like even on Saturday

00:14:12 ◼   ► and certainly on Friday.

00:14:14 ◼   ► So there's evolution going on, but that was one of the first first realizations

00:14:19 ◼   ► I had is really just like we've talked a lot about the iPadness of

00:14:23 ◼   ► it and in the run up to this product, I've been saying a lot

00:14:27 ◼   ► like Apple's using its knowledge of the iPad as one of the ways that

00:14:31 ◼   ► it can get into this product.

00:14:32 ◼   ► But the truth is, it didn't iPad apps to this thing.

00:14:36 ◼   ► And it doesn't behave like an iPad.

00:14:38 ◼   ► It behaves like an iPhone.

00:14:39 ◼   ► A really big, interesting, unseen before this week iPhone, but still an iPhone.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Do you remember what your first impression was?

00:14:48 ◼   ► I know someone uh put one in my hand and my very first impression

00:14:52 ◼   ► was I was genuinely shocked by how heavy it was.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Like that was the thing for me.

00:14:57 ◼   ► I was like, oh wow, okay.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Like it wasn't the thickness didn't me so much.

00:15:02 ◼   ► You know, I I could obviously see that it was nice and you know

00:15:05 ◼   ► it's beautiful, like the air is beautiful.

00:15:08 ◼   ► But the the weight of the phone was initially quite surprising to me.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I would even say dense because remember you're it's not spread over an area.

00:15:18 ◼   ► It's it's focused on this tiny rectangle.

00:15:22 ◼   ► And because it's two layers, I mean, and it's and it's essentially a pro-max

00:15:27 ◼   ► weight over a tiny area, it it feels dense.

00:15:31 ◼   ► So it definitely felt dense.

00:15:32 ◼   ► And my other, I think, hands-on first impression was that it reminded me of

00:15:36 ◼   ► an iPhone Air a lot in the sense that, especially when it's unfolded, but

00:15:40 ◼   ► um, you know, it's got the smooth shiny metal all around it, and it

00:15:45 ◼   ► feels really premium in a very specific way that the iPhone Air did.

00:15:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:51 ◼   ► But also, yes, very, very dense.

00:15:53 ◼   ► And then I would say my the first word that I kept thinking of

00:15:58 ◼   ► the first hour I used it was ergonomics, right?

00:16:00 ◼   ► Which I think gets short shrift in the tech world.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Like ergonomics is super important.

00:16:06 ◼   ► With handheld devices, like everything we do with mobile devices is I mean, ergonomics

00:16:13 ◼   ► is a huge factor.

00:16:14 ◼   ► How does it feel in your hand?

00:16:16 ◼   ► Everybody's hand is different.

00:16:17 ◼   ► I've found it really funny in the in the run-up to this after it

00:16:20 ◼   ► got announced.

00:16:21 ◼   ► People are like, oh, it's right hand focused.

00:16:23 ◼   ► It's not good for lefties and all of that.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Which and then it turns out that's not really correct because some people who

00:16:31 ◼   ► are right-handed put the iPhone in their left hand.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Some people who are right-handed put the iPhone in their right hand.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Uh so it's not the same as saying right-handed or left handed.

00:16:39 ◼   ► I'm left-handed and use my iPhone in my right hand.

00:16:42 ◼   ► And and then and I'm right-handed and use my iPhone in my left hand,

00:16:45 ◼   ► but I'll say there's also another ergonomic issue, which is how do you use

00:16:49 ◼   ► your iPhone?

00:16:49 ◼   ► Because I I mostly use my iPhone holding it in my left hand and

00:16:55 ◼   ► and poking at it with my right index finger, not one handing it.

00:17:00 ◼   ► But I know some people really one-hand their iPhone.

00:17:04 ◼   ► So there's lots of ergonomics issues when it's closed and then you open it.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And it's an entirely different basket of ergonomics issues.

00:17:14 ◼   ► And the one that I kept enjoying and I'm still dealing with is which

00:17:20 ◼   ► way did you rotate it?

00:17:21 ◼   ► Where are the buttons now?

00:17:23 ◼   ► I cannot tell you how many times I've closed it expecting to see the

00:17:28 ◼   ► screen and instead I see the camera where I'm like oh, I'm the wrong

00:17:32 ◼   ► side.

00:17:33 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Because I didn't I wasn't paying attention and I rode it rotated it clockwise

00:17:38 ◼   ► instead of counterclockwise.

00:17:39 ◼   ► So there's so much of like,

00:17:41 ◼   ► do you know how this phone is oriented?

00:17:43 ◼   ► Do you know where its buttons are?

00:17:45 ◼   ► And over time you do but like when you first use it, it's unlike

00:17:49 ◼   ► any product that you've ever used like this.

00:17:50 ◼   ► And it is you you get discombobulated and and are kind of off the

00:17:55 ◼   ► map when you're um when you're using it.

00:17:58 ◼   ► So that ergonomics I've just thought a lot about that, like how it feels

00:18:01 ◼   ► when it's where are my hands?

00:18:03 ◼   ► Where are my fingers?

00:18:04 ◼   ► Where am I touching the touch ID button?

00:18:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Because the the lack of face ID leads to more ergonomic issues.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Um, because the the the touch ID button's location matters more and it'll tell

00:18:17 ◼   ► you where it is eventually, but like then you're hunting for it.

00:18:21 ◼   ► Whereas what you really want is to have your brain be like, you know,

00:18:24 ◼   ► you know where it is, put your finger there and then you move on.

00:18:26 ◼   ► So there's just a lot of that ergonomic stuff that came up at the

00:18:30 ◼   ► at the start for me.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I haven't I've I've heard a lot of people say this about like

00:18:35 ◼   ► not really knowing where anything is.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Like you know, like where is the phone?

00:18:39 ◼   ► You know, like where are the buttons?

00:18:40 ◼   ► I haven't had that experience so much, but I feel like I understand it.

00:18:44 ◼   ► The the one that I've had, which it's it's not that I don't know,

00:18:47 ◼   ► but it's funny to me how often the camera is in the palm of

00:18:51 ◼   ► my hand when I have it open like in portrait.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Like for whatever reason, that's the way that I turn it.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Um and I think I actually quite like the way that it feels to

00:19:00 ◼   ► to hold it that way, but it's strange.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I know this is gonna sound weird but like I don't know, the camera

00:19:05 ◼   ► plateau, it's a little like a pop socket or something.

00:19:08 ◼   ► I actually use it for leverage.

00:19:10 ◼   ► I think that's why I like it like that.

00:19:12 ◼   ► It's cause it's got that kind of it's it it f sits nicely, but

00:19:16 ◼   ► I feel like it's maybe not the best thing to me to just be

00:19:19 ◼   ► palming.

00:19:20 ◼   ► In vertical orientation, I absolutely have taken to holding it where my index finger

00:19:24 ◼   ► is under the plateau.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:26 ◼   ► So I g so it gives me a little leverage to keep it up.

00:19:29 ◼   ► You gotta get a pop sockets.

00:19:30 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:19:31 ◼   ► When we're talking about pop sockets there, I've got love thoughts on pop sockets.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:19:34 ◼   ► I think overall though, like something that I've really settled on is that this

00:19:39 ◼   ► iPhone is a two handed iPhone.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Open, closed, doesn't matter, it's two handed iPhone.

00:19:43 ◼   ► You referenced the keyboard The keyboard in the closed mode I really like, but

00:19:47 ◼   ► it's wide.

00:19:49 ◼   ► It is wide.

00:19:50 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:19:51 ◼   ► I um I I had to I had to type a P and I

00:19:55 ◼   ► turns out I was one handing it and I was like, Nope, can't get

00:19:58 ◼   ► over there.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Nope.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Now they have that

00:20:00 ◼   ► little squish to the side keyboard.

00:20:03 ◼   ► But I don't really like that and I can't explain why.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Um it just doesn't work for me in a way that I am very

00:20:09 ◼   ► happy with.

00:20:10 ◼   ► Uh and I I feel like I'm able to do a lot of things

00:20:13 ◼   ► with one hand.

00:20:15 ◼   ► But if it's anything more than scrolling or tapping a couple of buttons, I

00:20:18 ◼   ► just want to use it two handed, both open and closed.

00:20:21 ◼   ► So So I I that it's been interesting.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Oh, so just to to circle back to the weight thing, I still notice

00:20:27 ◼   ► that the phone is heavy, but I've gotten used to it.

00:20:30 ◼   ► It but it it actually feels much more comfortable to me to hold one

00:20:35 ◼   ► handed open than it does to hold it.

00:20:37 ◼   ► One had it closed.

00:20:38 ◼   ► And that's going back to the like density and kind of the weight balance

00:20:41 ◼   ► thing that you were mentioning earlier.

00:20:43 ◼   ► And also it fits in my pocket a lot easier than I thought it

00:20:46 ◼   ► would.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Like I that's not an issue.

00:20:49 ◼   ► It is more difficult for me to take out of my pocket in a

00:20:53 ◼   ► way that I feel comfortable that I'm not going to drop it though.

00:20:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:20:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:57 ◼   ► I I I've got lots of be aware, do not drop this thing moments

00:21:01 ◼   ► with this that I have not had with an iPhone for a very long

00:21:04 ◼   ► time.

00:21:04 ◼   ► And part of that is just it's an entirely new shape and new set

00:21:07 ◼   ► of it it's new weight and new balance and all of that.

00:21:11 ◼   ► Plus you're also thinking, I'm gonna remove this and then where am I what

00:21:14 ◼   ► am I doing with it when I pull it out of the pocket and

00:21:16 ◼   ► how am I holding it?

00:21:17 ◼   ► So there's some complication there.

00:21:19 ◼   ► That is absolutely the case.

00:21:22 ◼   ► Um also one of my early thoughts about it was oh, I need to

00:21:27 ◼   ► get a new wallet.

00:21:28 ◼   ► Oh, the magsafe wallet.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Because I have a mag safe wallet and uh guess what?

00:21:32 ◼   ► It's it's uh sticks off the bottom.

00:21:34 ◼   ► It doesn't.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So there are companies that claim there are companies that say they are making

00:21:40 ◼   ► iPhone Duo magnet wallets that will fit in the footprint of the duo.

00:21:47 ◼   ► And i you could like it barely there's a card size under there.

00:21:53 ◼   ► But I also am thinking I may just go back to my uh non-MagSafe

00:21:57 ◼   ► wallet that I have, the little tiny little tiny card wallet, because it just

00:22:02 ◼   ► alas I I really like MagSafe wallets, but um they don't fit.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I'm holding a credit card on the back of this phone and like, yeah,

00:22:09 ◼   ► you could put a wallet back there, but you're gonna be able to get

00:22:11 ◼   ► any of the cards out because it it's the exact size.

00:22:14 ◼   ► The the wallets that have been announced

00:22:18 ◼   ► they they they're like two piece and they they po they fold up and

00:22:22 ◼   ► then you slide the cards out and then they go back down.

00:22:24 ◼   ► Yeah, not and then you can also use them as a uh kickstand, apparently.

00:22:28 ◼   ► That's that's the other thing they're trying.

00:22:30 ◼   ► I've never been a put my wallet on the back of my phone person

00:22:34 ◼   ► anyway.

00:22:34 ◼   ► Um I don't I don't like the idea of losing one thing is losing

00:22:38 ◼   ► both things.

00:22:38 ◼   ► Um but I know lots of people do it and I understand it.

00:22:41 ◼   ► I do it.

00:22:42 ◼   ► But it's not it's not for me.

00:22:44 ◼   ► That's that's not for me.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Yeah, so we'll see.

00:22:46 ◼   ► I those those I will pr undoubtedly try one of those, but in the

00:22:50 ◼   ► meantime I just have to find where my old wallet I had a little

00:22:53 ◼   ► you know, a little one piece kind of thing where you put the cards

00:22:55 ◼   ► in it and you pull the thing and it comes out.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And it was very nice.

00:22:58 ◼   ► And I think I'm just gonna go back to that.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I've been seeing this going viral on on threads today, um, and it is

00:23:05 ◼   ► absolutely my experience.

00:23:07 ◼   ► Have you held your pro phone for any significant time since you started using

00:23:13 ◼   ► the duo?

00:23:14 ◼   ► No.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:15 ◼   ► No, we had the s we had a little ceremony.

00:23:17 ◼   ► You haven't touched it.

00:23:17 ◼   ► I've picked mine up to do some stuff.

00:23:19 ◼   ► That phone, it feels like a clown phone.

00:23:21 ◼   ► It feels like the longest phone of all time.

00:23:24 ◼   ► I've been seeing loads of people posting things like this on Threads today where

00:23:27 ◼   ► they like get Photoshop and just like stretch the phone to like a like

00:23:31 ◼   ► a surfboard size.

00:23:33 ◼   ► It feels unbelievable.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Unbelievably ridiculous.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Like who what could you do with a phone so tall?

00:23:38 ◼   ► Like why would anybody need this?

00:23:41 ◼   ► It's such a strange feeling.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I just picked up a a a phone on my desk.

00:23:45 ◼   ► I think it's 17.

00:23:46 ◼   ► And uh Yeah, it's hilarious.

00:23:49 ◼   ► It's a little bit more than a little bit.

00:23:49 ◼   ► It's funny how quickly it's used to it, right?

00:23:52 ◼   ► Like it's like what I had this thing for a couple of days and

00:23:55 ◼   ► now I'm like, well all phones should be this tiny.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's how it works at all.

00:24:00 ◼   ► That is not how it works.

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00:25:55 ◼   ► When I opened the duo for the first time, and they they kind of

00:26:00 ◼   ► were showing us this in a briefing, and they had a phrase for it

00:26:02 ◼   ► that I'm I'm frustrated I didn't write down.

00:26:05 ◼   ► But the way the phone opens is kind of like a three stage process

00:26:11 ◼   ► uh where initially it kind of pops open a little bit, then there is

00:26:15 ◼   ► some resistance, which is what allows you to have what Apple calls the postures,

00:26:19 ◼   ► right?

00:26:19 ◼   ► Where you're putting it into different modes.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Poses.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Poses.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Uh I will now do a find and replace on my notes because I've

00:26:25 ◼   ► written postures down a lot, but it's and then you there's a resistance and

00:26:29 ◼   ► then when you get right to the end, it just opens fully, like with

00:26:32 ◼   ► without a lot of effort.

00:26:34 ◼   ► And I really enjoy that feeling.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Like that there you can tell a lot of work has gone into what

00:26:41 ◼   ► is the right way to make this thing easy enough to open and then

00:26:46 ◼   ► also to provide a bunch of functionality until you get right to the end.

00:26:52 ◼   ► Um I I I liked that a lot.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Um and about the opening, I don't know if you've used a case uh

00:26:58 ◼   ► on your duo, but I've tried both of the cases.

00:27:01 ◼   ► The cases make the duo much easier to open than they do than than

00:27:06 ◼   ► just on its own.

00:27:07 ◼   ► I don't have a problem with opening it, but I could imagine maybe some

00:27:11 ◼   ► people wouldn't like that it takes a little bit of work to open.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:14 ◼   ► I kinda like the folio case.

00:27:16 ◼   ► It's weird but interesting.

00:27:18 ◼   ► And um it definitely look, I've been very clear on this show.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I am anti kickstand.

00:27:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:27:25 ◼   ► I kinda like the kickstand on the folio case because cause you're like how

00:27:29 ◼   ► do I work with this thing and p set it somewhere and have it

00:27:32 ◼   ► be visible and you're not gonna put a keyboard case on it or something,

00:27:36 ◼   ► right?

00:27:37 ◼   ► I'm anti kickstand because I feel like you wanna use a a tablet and

00:27:41 ◼   ► a keyboard in a laptop configuration and a kickstand goes against that because it's

00:27:44 ◼   ► pressing against your knees or it's off the edge of your legs.

00:27:47 ◼   ► But on a phone, I think it's actually really good that that you can

00:27:51 ◼   ► do that.

00:27:51 ◼   ► And and um and I was able to pair a Bluetooth keyboard with it

00:27:54 ◼   ► and have it be like a little teeny tiny writing environment.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Not ideal, but not bad.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Um and I think there is a use case.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I mean one of the interesting things about that folio case is it's kind

00:28:06 ◼   ► of like not only does it feel safer that it's covered, but you've got

00:28:10 ◼   ► sort of like two it's it's it's a little like almost like origami like

00:28:15 ◼   ► in that like you could open it in different ways to reveal different devices

00:28:20 ◼   ► almost magically, right?

00:28:21 ◼   ► You take the you open the front cover

00:28:25 ◼   ► and you're looking at the little screen and you can check your notifications or

00:28:29 ◼   ► whatever and you close that.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And then you open it at the middle and it all spreads open and

00:28:33 ◼   ► now you've got the big screen.

00:28:34 ◼   ► It's interesting.

00:28:35 ◼   ► Um Um interesting design.

00:28:38 ◼   ► And uh yeah, I I I kinda like it.

00:28:41 ◼   ► I don't know whether I would use it that way.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I think that there is a use case for this phone where people don't

00:28:47 ◼   ► use the outside screen very often and just sort of have it in their

00:28:52 ◼   ► pocket and then open it up to the big screen.

00:28:54 ◼   ► I think that is a use case for some people.

00:28:56 ◼   ► And and that the front screen then becomes more of a I mean you

00:29:00 ◼   ► can use it fully, but like you could also just treat it as kind

00:29:03 ◼   ► of a notification area more than anything else and that would work too.

00:29:07 ◼   ► I am uh doing a lot of investigation into different ways to prop up

00:29:12 ◼   ► this phone.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Um I have many products uh on the way to me.

00:29:16 ◼   ► I am a pop socket guy, have been for years.

00:29:19 ◼   ► I love my PopSocket as a way to hold this phone.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Makes it really nice to hold in tablet mode.

00:29:23 ◼   ► PopSocket does not prop this phone up when you have it open.

00:29:28 ◼   ► So if I want to open it fully and watch a video, like with

00:29:31 ◼   ► the full inside screen it just falls over.

00:29:34 ◼   ► So I uh I have on the way a variety of products that should

00:29:38 ◼   ► be able to do this.

00:29:39 ◼   ► I've had some people reach out to me already to say, Hey, I found

00:29:41 ◼   ► the right pop socket product for you.

00:29:43 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:29:44 ◼   ► I I'm gonna be reporting on this in the coming weeks.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Uh the folio case I agree.

00:29:50 ◼   ► I I really like the way that product works, but I wouldn't use it

00:29:55 ◼   ► all the time.

00:29:55 ◼   ► I I don't like the front screen covering thing and I don't like that

00:29:59 ◼   ► when you unfold it like where is it supposed to go?

00:30:02 ◼   ► You kind of fold it round to the back, but it doesn't sit neatly

00:30:04 ◼   ► there because the camera bump kind of props it up.

00:30:07 ◼   ► But I love the engineering on it.

00:30:09 ◼   ► I love the little kind of hinge thing in the middle and how it

00:30:12 ◼   ► kind of like pulls out and goes around.

00:30:13 ◼   ► It's really nice case.

00:30:15 ◼   ► I could imagine using it when I travel, for example, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► And so you could prop it up on a tray table on a plane,

00:30:20 ◼   ► you watch a movie or whatever.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And it'd be really nice.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Yeah and it gives you a little protection when you're travel and you might

00:30:24 ◼   ► put it in a bag or whatever you're doing.

00:30:25 ◼   ► I mean it didn't that front with where the front flap goes didn't bother

00:30:29 ◼   ► me 'cause I feel like that's like a pe it's like a peak gesture

00:30:32 ◼   ► at that point.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Like you you're peeking you're peeking at that's just you're not using my iPhone

00:30:37 ◼   ► though.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Well that this is what this is what I'm saying is I I think

00:30:39 ◼   ► it is more in that mode where you're it's almost like I'm gonna use

00:30:42 ◼   ► that to peek or do something real quick and then close it back closed.

00:30:45 ◼   ► And if I wanna use it, I'm gonna open it all the way up.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Yep.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Obviously the big part of the iPhone Duo, the big part of any folding

00:30:52 ◼   ► phone is what is the folded screen like to use?

00:30:56 ◼   ► Like the what is the benefit of right?

00:30:58 ◼   ► The the reason the whole reason we have these things is so you can

00:31:00 ◼   ► fit bigger screens in smaller packages.

00:31:03 ◼   ► How do you feel about the inside display uh of the iPhone Duo?

00:31:08 ◼   ► I like it a lot.

00:31:09 ◼   ► It's really good.

00:31:10 ◼   ► I like the ni uh the matte texture.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:13 ◼   ► I think that is a smart move by Apple.

00:31:16 ◼   ► It looks nice.

00:31:18 ◼   ► You know, I was

00:31:20 ◼   ► watching video on it in the dark and I didn't feel like, oh, matte

00:31:25 ◼   ► texture, it's I'm losing the black levels and all that.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Like it was it it it looks really good and also is obviously hiding

00:31:34 ◼   ► sins, which is great.

00:31:36 ◼   ► It's a great reason to do it, right?

00:31:38 ◼   ► To hide the hinge.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Yeah, e exactly.

00:31:41 ◼   ► To hide the that that crease that is there.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:44 ◼   ► But it's just not a big deal.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Doesn't get in the way visually.

00:31:49 ◼   ► And like I said, it it's

00:31:52 ◼   ► it's a big screen for an iPhone and a small screen for an iPad.

00:31:55 ◼   ► And this is this interesting kind of thing.

00:31:57 ◼   ► And I think that the software is still trying to figure out how to

00:32:01 ◼   ► fit stuff.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Like you almost need

00:32:05 ◼   ► I mean, there are things you could learn from an iPad or especially like

00:32:09 ◼   ► an iPad mini, but really what what everybody is trying to figure out is

00:32:14 ◼   ► what

00:32:15 ◼   ► does a very large iPhone app look like because I'm not sure I've seen

00:32:22 ◼   ► like peops apps are all over the place and some of them I'm like,

00:32:25 ◼   ► yep, that's pretty good.

00:32:26 ◼   ► And others I'm like, nope.

00:32:28 ◼   ► I don't know what you're doing here.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Try again.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And yeah.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Not to mention all the apps that are still in the shame rectangle, which

00:32:33 ◼   ► is just painful.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Um I I was I was looking at um the Kobo app, and I

00:32:40 ◼   ► was really excited to see that the Kobo app got updated on Friday and

00:32:43 ◼   ► I opened it and it it doesn't even support the 27 SDK.

00:32:47 ◼   ► It's it's got it it it doesn't even have like the black bar on

00:32:50 ◼   ► the side, let alone the full kind of reach.

00:32:53 ◼   ► It just is an old app.

00:32:55 ◼   ► And I was like, God, come on.

00:32:56 ◼   ► And like I get it.

00:32:57 ◼   ► It's hard.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Everybody's got their own schedule and all that.

00:33:00 ◼   ► But It is painful to use some of those apps that have been not

00:33:03 ◼   ► updated.

00:33:04 ◼   ► And that's obviously an evolving situation.

00:33:06 ◼   ► But also even the ones that have evolved into an iPhone Duo app, I

00:33:10 ◼   ► would I I would bet you that their developers would say, Yeah, I mean

00:33:14 ◼   ► I just got it up on the iPhone too.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I still don't know what I'm doing because I there's a lot of that

00:33:18 ◼   ► going on.

00:33:19 ◼   ► None of us really know what we're doing with this thing.

00:33:21 ◼   ► But um but that's not the screen's fault.

00:33:23 ◼   ► The screen is amazing.

00:33:25 ◼   ► What do you think about that?

00:33:27 ◼   ► I love the way the the matte display feels.

00:33:32 ◼   ► I go back and forth on how I think it looks.

00:33:36 ◼   ► The kind of the matte effect is really nice, right?

00:33:39 ◼   ► Like it just has a different feeling to it.

00:33:41 ◼   ► But But I feel like I am y losing vibrancy.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Like it's the the screen is a little more washed out than I would

00:33:47 ◼   ► want.

00:33:48 ◼   ► And I can test it, right?

00:33:49 ◼   ► Like I close the phone and I look at something and I'm like, that

00:33:52 ◼   ► is what I am used to and it's what I like.

00:33:55 ◼   ► You know, like a a glass, glossy screen.

00:33:58 ◼   ► And then I open it and it's like, okay, this is different.

00:34:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:02 ◼   ► And in some lights, some lighting environments, like here's that thing of like, yes,

00:34:06 ◼   ► these displays, they stop glare.

00:34:09 ◼   ► But what happens if you're in a bright room and you're gonna angle towards

00:34:12 ◼   ► a light, it doesn't show, but it just kind of washes out the screen

00:34:16 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Which is, you know, it's like you're trading off one problem for another.

00:34:21 ◼   ► But the thing is, I I feel like it is good good enough, but

00:34:26 ◼   ► the benefit of the way it feels, like to to touch, I really enjoy

00:34:31 ◼   ► that feeling.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Like I I think it is a very pleasant feeling.

00:34:34 ◼   ► I like the texture.

00:34:35 ◼   ► Like I've used matte screen protectors on iPads before and I and I always

00:34:40 ◼   ► really liked it.

00:34:41 ◼   ► But what I didn't like was what it did to the image.

00:34:44 ◼   ► And I will say this is much better than those products that I've tried.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Like I feel like they were some of them were creating like weird kind

00:34:52 ◼   ► of prism-y kind of effects in certain angles, and Apple's does not do that.

00:34:58 ◼   ► But it is it's interesting to me that, you know, like Apple now has

00:35:03 ◼   ► many different types of nanotexture.

00:35:06 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:07 ◼   ► And like I feel like as time has gone on,

00:35:11 ◼   ► what we are realizing is that the nanotexture, or we can see, we know

00:35:16 ◼   ► the nanotexture on the iPhone.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Duo is a essentially a screen protector.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Like it is a film that they are stuck over the top.

00:35:23 ◼   ► That is very different to the nanotexture that is on iPads, that is different

00:35:28 ◼   ► to the nanotexture that is on Macs, where they're doing something to the glass.

00:35:33 ◼   ► And I I I don't have enough experience with nanotexture products in other forms

00:35:38 ◼   ► to kind of compare them, but I would assume that it is different in

00:35:43 ◼   ► some way because of that.

00:35:44 ◼   ► It is.

00:35:45 ◼   ► It is a very different kind of a process because it's the screen screen

00:35:48 ◼   ► protector layer instead of it being it like something that's coated on or etched

00:35:52 ◼   ► on.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Um but I like that they're doing this because it as you say it

00:35:56 ◼   ► hides the crimes of the crease.

00:35:58 ◼   ► Um, it makes it look good, makes it feel good, and also creates a

00:36:02 ◼   ► very good repairable piece to this phone.

00:36:07 ◼   ► I I do wish

00:36:09 ◼   ► it went on under the plastic.

00:36:12 ◼   ► I I don't I mean this is so picky, but I did spend a

00:36:15 ◼   ► lot of money on this phone.

00:36:17 ◼   ► I don't like that if you look, you can see there's a gap.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And like and I've seen this on lots of folding phones before and I

00:36:25 ◼   ► was convinced Apple would not do it this way.

00:36:28 ◼   ► That like, you know, you can get your fingernail in there.

00:36:31 ◼   ► It's why like there's already videos of people taking it off.

00:36:33 ◼   ► Like you can just peel it off.

00:36:34 ◼   ► You shouldn't but you can.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Um I am surprised

00:36:40 ◼   ► that I could do that.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I I didn't think that that would be the way that they would have

00:36:45 ◼   ► shipped the product.

00:36:47 ◼   ► But it is what it is.

00:36:48 ◼   ► Now these are the choices.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Talking about the crease, right?

00:36:51 ◼   ► I don't care about it.

00:36:53 ◼   ► Something that does distract me is the under display camera.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Because Yeah, in the right angle you light it flashes you, right?

00:37:01 ◼   ► Like if it light hits it, the whole screen is fine, but you know

00:37:04 ◼   ► there's nothing's nothing's glaring back.

00:37:06 ◼   ► But that area does and like it's not a big deal, but it's like

00:37:11 ◼   ► from the the things that I thought could bother me over the f the

00:37:16 ◼   ► the display of a folding iPhone, that's not the thing I would have imagined

00:37:20 ◼   ► as being the problem, right?

00:37:22 ◼   ► So it doesn't bother me at all.

00:37:24 ◼   ► Um I was gonna praise it because um I can't tell that it's there.

00:37:30 ◼   ► Like I I don't there there's no point that I look at that part

00:37:33 ◼   ► of the screen if I even know which way I'm holding it and think,

00:37:37 ◼   ► Oh yeah, the pixels aren't as good over there because that's the FaceTime camera.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Uh the FaceTime camera itself, you know, is fine.

00:37:44 ◼   ► It's FaceTime camera.

00:37:45 ◼   ► I s sometimes I like it it does the job.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It's amazing, but it's good enough.

00:37:50 ◼   ► But I like that it i it is hidden.

00:37:52 ◼   ► The only way you can see it is because they have the they don't

00:37:54 ◼   ► have coating over it and you can see it there.

00:37:56 ◼   ► Um but otherwise I I like that I uh the the display looks it

00:38:01 ◼   ► feels more subtle to me than the pixels on the uh face ID sensor

00:38:07 ◼   ► on the iPhone eighteen Pro.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Yes.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Where you can l see that a little bit more if you look for

00:38:13 ◼   ► it than you can this, I think.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:38:16 ◼   ► We've spoken a lot about the inner display.

00:38:18 ◼   ► We will talk more about the inner display, I'm sure.

00:38:20 ◼   ► But I do want to mention I am surprised how much I like using

00:38:23 ◼   ► the outer display.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I like the tiny iPhone.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Like maybe it's the novelty of it right now, but the experience, like I

00:38:32 ◼   ► I don't see it as a negative experience.

00:38:35 ◼   ► I I feel like I'm able to do everything that I need to do.

00:38:41 ◼   ► And anytime I feel like I can't, I have a huge display that is

00:38:46 ◼   ► available to me.

00:38:47 ◼   ► I think that is the key thing is you can use a tiny phone

00:38:52 ◼   ► to do little stuff.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Because you know

00:38:57 ◼   ► if you have that moment where you're like, hmm, this looks like a job

00:39:00 ◼   ► for a big display, uh, guess what?

00:39:03 ◼   ► Boop.

00:39:03 ◼   ► And then you've got it just like that.

00:39:05 ◼   ► So the biggest.

00:39:07 ◼   ► It's the it's this it's uh I use this metaphor probably too much, but

00:39:11 ◼   ► like it's a release valve.

00:39:12 ◼   ► It is it's a lot easier when to use a small screen when you're

00:39:17 ◼   ► not trapped in it, right?

00:39:20 ◼   ► You're not trapped in it.

00:39:21 ◼   ► You at any moment if you say,

00:39:24 ◼   ► need more screen, you just go boop and you got more screen.

00:39:29 ◼   ► And so then it's less of a big deal.

00:39:31 ◼   ► I I have that Same thought.

00:39:33 ◼   ► I was in the car, um, we were going down uh the interstate and

00:39:38 ◼   ► Lawrence driving and I w got a notification.

00:39:41 ◼   ► You don't do a behind the wheel.

00:39:43 ◼   ► And I was not doing behind the wheel.

00:39:45 ◼   ► I'm just I say that because somebody's like how dare Oh dare you other

00:39:48 ◼   ► people also are drive cars, not just me.

00:39:50 ◼   ► I'm not the only driver of cars.

00:39:52 ◼   ► So um I get a notification and I l and I and I look

00:39:56 ◼   ► and then I'm like, okay, do with the app.

00:39:58 ◼   ► And I realize like, oh yeah, I'm just using this little uh this There's

00:40:01 ◼   ► a little front front screen and it's fine.

00:40:03 ◼   ► But uh you know, and then you have that moment where you're like okay,

00:40:06 ◼   ► maybe this a little more intensive.

00:40:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna open it up, and then you got the big thing.

00:40:11 ◼   ► Um and that's I I think that changes the game.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Whereas if you've got nowhere else to go you feel like, oh, oh, this

00:40:18 ◼   ► thing's too small.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I can't.

00:40:19 ◼   ► It's like if you ever had that feeling, you just open the phone up

00:40:22 ◼   ► and and then you don't have that feeling anymore.

00:40:24 ◼   ► I want to ask you, you have a lot of experience, a decent amount

00:40:28 ◼   ► of experience with foldable phones from the Android side.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Yep.

00:40:34 ◼   ► How uh do you have any observations about how this experience is is uh

00:40:38 ◼   ► similar or different that struck you?

00:40:41 ◼   ► So I have used the original

00:40:45 ◼   ► well I own the original Galaxy Fold.

00:40:48 ◼   ► It's like the very first one.

00:40:51 ◼   ► I had one of the Z flips, which is the like flip phone.

00:40:55 ◼   ► Um and I also have a Google Pixel fold, not the the kind of

00:41:01 ◼   ► square one.

00:41:01 ◼   ► They did a more kind of conventional sized one in their kind of second

00:41:06 ◼   ► iteration.

00:41:08 ◼   ► Kind of pushing to the side the obvious, which is like I prefer and

00:41:13 ◼   ► iOS to Android, right?

00:41:14 ◼   ► And so like I'm using iOS, and so that is a good experience.

00:41:19 ◼   ► The form factor here, the size and the shape.

00:41:23 ◼   ► I see why Apple went down this direction, I think.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Because a lot of the things that are not so great about a folding

00:41:32 ◼   ► phone are reduced when the phone is smaller, right?

00:41:36 ◼   ► So if you think about this phone as being very thick, what if it

00:41:40 ◼   ► was the size of an iPhone and that thickness, right?

00:41:42 ◼   ► Which is some of the stuff I've used before.

00:41:44 ◼   ► And I know that a lot of companies are are kind of getting closer

00:41:47 ◼   ► and closer towards regular phone shape.

00:41:49 ◼   ► But I feel like the and like is obviously Sam's song a bunch of

00:41:54 ◼   ► companies are going in this direction now, you know, like maybe because of Apple.

00:41:58 ◼   ► But I I think that there is something to be said for little phone

00:42:03 ◼   ► that turns into little tablet.

00:42:05 ◼   ► I much prefer to regular phone that turns into little tablet.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Like I I find that to be okay much nicer of a feeling because

00:42:16 ◼   ► a lot of those things they're like tall and skinny and they open up

00:42:19 ◼   ► and they're st And then it's kind of like a similar ish size to

00:42:22 ◼   ► what you get when you turn this thing into portrait mode.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And I feel like I don't

00:42:29 ◼   ► I think a better way to maybe p get across what I'm trying to

00:42:32 ◼   ► say is I feel like with the other folding phones that I've Because they're

00:42:35 ◼   ► pretty much a regular phone on the outside, I don't feel myself opening them

00:42:38 ◼   ► that very often.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Like I had the pixel fold, and it was a regular phone on the

00:42:43 ◼   ► outside.

00:42:43 ◼   ► And so I never really felt the incentive to open it very often.

00:42:48 ◼   ► With this phone, I'm opening it all the time because I can get little

00:42:51 ◼   ► things done on my fold on on the outer display, on the small display.

00:42:55 ◼   ► But if I want to get something done with that is a little bit

00:42:57 ◼   ► more, I open it up.

00:42:59 ◼   ► And that is a really nice experience to be incentivized to actually use the

00:43:02 ◼   ► full product.

00:43:03 ◼   ► And so I like that about it.

00:43:05 ◼   ► And so I don't know if that is a like a a universal positive

00:43:09 ◼   ► of this product being created that like the outside screen requires the inside screen.

00:43:14 ◼   ► But I feel like that would tell me that from a design perspective, they

00:43:17 ◼   ► found a pretty good balance between the two.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Like I can use the front screen and I want to use the inside

00:43:24 ◼   ► screen.

00:43:25 ◼   ► So I think that that balance is much better for me than some of

00:43:27 ◼   ► the other products that I've used in the past.

00:43:30 ◼   ► And the small kind of flipping phones, to me they're mostly a novelty, right?

00:43:35 ◼   ► Like a regular phone that folds in half.

00:43:37 ◼   ► I I like that, but I'm not sure that in the long run that

00:43:40 ◼   ► is much of a benefit.

00:43:41 ◼   ► I I think phone to tablet is much nicer than fo just regular phone

00:43:46 ◼   ► you fold in half.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Okay, from from my life I think it's a lot better anyway.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:51 ◼   ► While we're kind of still in the hardware section of this conversation, uh I

00:43:56 ◼   ► wanna talk about the camera and the cameras.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:00 ◼   ► This is my sticking point right now, which is the quality of low light

00:44:07 ◼   ► images from the regular camera, like the main camera.

00:44:12 ◼   ► I think the problem for me is I did upgrade to an eighteen pro

00:44:17 ◼   ► and that phone does a very good job in low light photography.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And so I'm talking I'm talking about not night photography.

00:44:25 ◼   ► I'm talking about it's the evening and you're at home kind of photography.

00:44:29 ◼   ► And I am at a phase in my life right now where I am

00:44:32 ◼   ► taking more pictures inside my house than at any time maybe in my entire

00:44:36 ◼   ► life because I'm constantly taking pictures of my child doing things, right?

00:44:41 ◼   ► And and I feel like and not I feel like I've I I've tested

00:44:45 ◼   ► it, you know, like I've taken both cameras and I'm taking pictures of them

00:44:48 ◼   ► next to each other and I d I feel like there is detail that

00:44:53 ◼   ► the pro the eighteen pro gets that the duo does not get.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Now, of course that's not a surprise, right?

00:45:01 ◼   ► I'm not saying this is like a shock horror.

00:45:04 ◼   ► It's not as good.

00:45:05 ◼   ► But when it comes to me making the decision for what product I want

00:45:09 ◼   ► to use, like what phone is my phone, the quality of the images is

00:45:15 ◼   ► a big part of it, right?

00:45:18 ◼   ► Our phones are as much camera as they are anything else.

00:45:21 ◼   ► It's just like kind of what where we are as a society now.

00:45:25 ◼   ► And a a a downgrade in the camera is a problem.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I I I've not really felt much about the telephoto lens yet.

00:45:35 ◼   ► Like that is the thing that is completely mess missing.

00:45:38 ◼   ► And I definitely use the the zoom on the pro, but I've not so

00:45:43 ◼   ► far found that to I've not encountered something in the last few days that

00:45:47 ◼   ► has like really made me feel that.

00:45:50 ◼   ► But definitely the the quality of images that comes from the main display, while

00:45:55 ◼   ► still really great, it's not at that pro level.

00:46:00 ◼   ► And that is the level I'm used to.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Yep.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:03 ◼   ► It's some some of it's what you're used to.

00:46:05 ◼   ► It is a step back.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I would say

00:46:10 ◼   ► I it just it strikes me that some of it is sort of like

00:46:13 ◼   ► what's your relationship with your phone?

00:46:14 ◼   ► So my relationship with my iPhone 17 Pro was that it was the thing

00:46:19 ◼   ► I took with me when I left the house.

00:46:21 ◼   ► And I would take, you know, or you know, and it was the thing

00:46:24 ◼   ► I wanted to use to take pictures, right?

00:46:28 ◼   ► By that standard, the iPhone Duo doesn't hold up.

00:46:33 ◼   ► But the thing is, that's not how I'm using the iPhone Duo.

00:46:37 ◼   ► I'm using the iPhone Duo, at least right now, much more in the house

00:46:41 ◼   ► to do stuff.

00:46:43 ◼   ► And so that changes the weighting for me, right?

00:46:46 ◼   ► The it makes the phone the camera a little less important, if that makes

00:46:50 ◼   ► sense, because the value I extract out of this device is more is less

00:46:55 ◼   ► about the camera than it was on my 17 Pro.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Because I'm using it more i in different contexts.

00:47:01 ◼   ► And that's actually that very similar to what I've been thinking of like if

00:47:05 ◼   ► I decide to kind of deal with this, right, that like it's like, okay,

00:47:10 ◼   ► I'm just gonna have to lose some camera quality.

00:47:13 ◼   ► The reason I would do that is because I'm getting utility from the iPhone

00:47:17 ◼   ► Duo that the iPhone Pro does not give me.

00:47:20 ◼   ► Which I do feel like is possible.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Like I feel like that.

00:47:23 ◼   ► We're gonna get to some of that.

00:47:25 ◼   ► But I think th that might be the that will be the ultimate decision

00:47:28 ◼   ► that I have to make.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Am I willing to forego some cam some image quality for the pros that

00:47:35 ◼   ► this phone provides?

00:47:36 ◼   ► You know?

00:47:38 ◼   ► But like this phone does things with a camera that the other phones don't

00:47:42 ◼   ► do, right?

00:47:42 ◼   ► So True.

00:47:43 ◼   ► They've got the duo preview, which people I've already experienced this.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Like people like to look at themselves when you're taking a picture of them.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Like it's just like a thing which is nice.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Um like if somebody asks you know, if you're taking a photo of someone,

00:47:56 ◼   ► they are able to kind of move themselves or settle in a in a

00:47:59 ◼   ► place that they're happy with.

00:48:00 ◼   ► So that's actually a really nice experience.

00:48:03 ◼   ► And kid cue, it works.

00:48:05 ◼   ► It absolutely works now.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Oh good.

00:48:08 ◼   ► There's a downside to it, which is that it draws their eye line to

00:48:14 ◼   ► n away from the camera.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Right?

00:48:16 ◼   ► So the eye line is actually looking at the screen.

00:48:19 ◼   ► I noticed that they try to have Snoopy like go up toward the camera.

00:48:23 ◼   ► But it's wrong camera.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Oh.

00:48:26 ◼   ► I've thought that too.

00:48:27 ◼   ► It's like oh yeah, look, Snoopy's going up to the but that's not the

00:48:30 ◼   ► camera you're taking it.

00:48:32 ◼   ► That's the camera in the in the display.

00:48:34 ◼   ► In the display.

00:48:36 ◼   ► So I don't know if you can switch to that camera.

00:48:38 ◼   ► I don't think you can, but anyway, but what it the thing is, uh

00:48:42 ◼   ► sometimes you're happy that they're just looking in the general direction.

00:48:46 ◼   ► Like and we had it, right?

00:48:47 ◼   ► We we got a Halloween costume for Sophia, we put it on and I

00:48:50 ◼   ► wanted to get some photos of her looking at the camera and I couldn't

00:48:53 ◼   ► do it.

00:48:53 ◼   ► And I'm like let's see if Snoopy will help.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Snoopy helped.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And I have a selection of images where she's just getting closer and closer

00:48:59 ◼   ► to my phone because she wants to see what's going on with Snoopy.

00:49:02 ◼   ► And that creates its own adorable set of images that otherwise wouldn't have happened

00:49:06 ◼   ► before.

00:49:06 ◼   ► So those two features, again, it's like, All right, the images might not be

00:49:11 ◼   ► as good, but I actually might get better photos than I would get on

00:49:15 ◼   ► a regular camera.

00:49:16 ◼   ► I just texted you a photo.

00:49:18 ◼   ► I used that the other feature, which is the thing where you set it

00:49:21 ◼   ► down and have it take your picture.

00:49:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:22 ◼   ► When you're ready.

00:49:23 ◼   ► And like I I got a photo of me and Lauren with my mom

00:49:27 ◼   ► that is um taken with a good camera and is not me re with

00:49:32 ◼   ► my arm reaching out to the end edge of the frame because it's a

00:49:35 ◼   ► selfie.

00:49:36 ◼   ► It looked like somebody took that photo for you.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:39 ◼   ► And we'll be using that the iPhone deal.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:49:42 ◼   ► We'll be using this feature the what do they call it?

00:49:44 ◼   ► Something take smart take or something like that is the name of the feature.

00:49:48 ◼   ► Uh we'll we'll be using this uh when it comes time to take the

00:49:51 ◼   ► Christmas card photo.

00:49:53 ◼   ► Yeah, smart take.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So like that's a good you know, prop it up and then we've all

00:49:58 ◼   ► just gotta keep looking at the camera and and it's gonna you move around,

00:50:00 ◼   ► strike a pose and it'll take a photo of you.

00:50:02 ◼   ► So I like that.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Um so yeah, I think that is gonna be the the camera is maybe

00:50:07 ◼   ► gonna be the biggest consideration point.

00:50:09 ◼   ► I feel like honestly it's the only downside that I have felt from this

00:50:12 ◼   ► phone, which is a big surprise because there is one that's just sitting out

00:50:15 ◼   ► there right now, which is face ID, right?

00:50:17 ◼   ► Like this is the thing that I on this show I've been the most

00:50:23 ◼   ► vocal about, right?

00:50:24 ◼   ► Of like I will not accept two thousand pounds and touch ID.

00:50:30 ◼   ► But I think they worked it out.

00:50:34 ◼   ► If you wear an Apple Watch,

00:50:37 ◼   ► this is not a problem.

00:50:38 ◼   ► R remember how um for IOS twenty seven we were talking about how like

00:50:44 ◼   ► people have been complaining for years about bad searches in mail and spotlight not

00:50:49 ◼   ► finding things right.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Yep.

00:50:51 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden in in twenty seven, all that stuff is

00:50:53 ◼   ► fixed.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And the reason was that Apple had a reason to fix it because they

00:50:57 ◼   ► needed that infrastructure to work right for Siri AI.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Um, well, guess what?

00:51:02 ◼   ► Watch unlock,

00:51:04 ◼   ► which was not a great feature before for a few reasons, including the fact

00:51:08 ◼   ► that it would wait for your face ID to fail on those devices.

00:51:13 ◼   ► But I've heard I've heard from people that it's it's better everywhere, but it

00:51:16 ◼   ► certainly is not what it was on the duo.

00:51:19 ◼   ► On the duo, it is instantaneous.

00:51:23 ◼   ► It's

00:51:24 ◼   ► it honestly, it is as quick as using face ID.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Because what I do and what I have done for a long time is

00:51:31 ◼   ► I just pick up my phone and I swipe.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Anything And if you pick up your phone and swipe, it just unlocks.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Like it just does it.

00:51:38 ◼   ► There it is not a problem.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It's true.

00:51:40 ◼   ► My my issue is that I'm also like using passwords all the time.

00:51:44 ◼   ► And it won't Yes.

00:51:45 ◼   ► It won't let you use the watch for passwords.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Yes.

00:51:49 ◼   ► So I have to I have to f play everybody's favorite new game.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Where's the touch ID button?

00:51:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:56 ◼   ► Here's your here's your contestant.

00:51:58 ◼   ► It puts a little thing.

00:51:59 ◼   ► It puts a little thing that says it's up here.

00:52:01 ◼   ► I know.

00:52:01 ◼   ► It's up here.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:02 ◼   ► But, you know, I don't love it.

00:52:04 ◼   ► I agree, that is a downside, right?

00:52:06 ◼   ► I I also

00:52:08 ◼   ► fa touch uh Apple Pay is fine, but I actually for some reason a

00:52:12 ◼   ► have grown to really like Apple Pay with Face ID.

00:52:16 ◼   ► Maybe I just need to tr retrain myself into the touch ID.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Because I remember when Face ID came, I said I preferred touch ID for

00:52:23 ◼   ► Apple Pay because you can authenticate while your phone is on your its way

00:52:27 ◼   ► out of your pocket.

00:52:28 ◼   ► So maybe I just need to get used to it again.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Um and use you know, using passwords, using one password or any app for

00:52:35 ◼   ► biometric authentication.

00:52:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:37 ◼   ► It was nicer to just do nothing, which is what you have to do

00:52:40 ◼   ► with face ID.

00:52:41 ◼   ► Like there was there's nothing you have to do.

00:52:43 ◼   ► You're already looking at your phone.

00:52:44 ◼   ► You're doing all it needs.

00:52:46 ◼   ► But the biggest concern for me was unlocking the phone.

00:52:50 ◼   ► And I thought this was gonna be like a paper cut hundreds of times

00:52:53 ◼   ► a day it is not at all.

00:52:56 ◼   ► Now there are some weird edge cases, like watch unlock doesn't work when you're

00:53:00 ◼   ► on sleep mode for some reason, which is very shit.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Yes, right, right.

00:53:05 ◼   ► Like I right I don't know what is going on a plane home.

00:53:08 ◼   ► I was on a late flight and so my watch had gone into like

00:53:11 ◼   ► bedtime mode and my um phone was like, Nope, not gonna not gonna do

00:53:16 ◼   ► it 'cause you're sleeping.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Your watch is sleeping.

00:53:18 ◼   ► We can't wake him up.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Uh and then also I've noticed that it will occasionally just ask you to

00:53:24 ◼   ► put the pin in.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I think this is just like a there is some kind of clock, I

00:53:27 ◼   ► reckon, that that it needs touch ID or or a pin i every every

00:53:32 ◼   ► X amount of hours or something.

00:53:34 ◼   ► But honestly, like it It's just not a problem for me at all.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And you know, uh I s somebody in the uh David in the Discord

00:53:41 ◼   ► is like I said if you wear an Apple watches, it feels like a

00:53:43 ◼   ► big ask.

00:53:44 ◼   ► I really don't think that it is if you bought this phone.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Like uh you might decide you don't want to wear one, right?

00:53:50 ◼   ► I I know this is one one of the big things in John Gruber's

00:53:52 ◼   ► review where John doesn't want to wear an Apple Watch and I get that

00:53:55 ◼   ► 'cause I've been through that myself of not wearing or wearing one.

00:53:59 ◼   ► But if you do wear one, like I do every day It eliminates this

00:54:03 ◼   ► It eliminates the problem.

00:54:04 ◼   ► And so it is a different strokes for different folks kind of thing, but

00:54:08 ◼   ► I'm not having an issue with it because of that.

00:54:11 ◼   ► And Yeah, I agree.

00:54:12 ◼   ► You know, the touch ID apples Apple's made some weird decisions with the touch

00:54:15 ◼   ► ID sensor, you know, like Marcus Brownley pointed this out, like it's very clear

00:54:19 ◼   ► they've built in a delay on the when you aren't trying to unlock the

00:54:23 ◼   ► phone.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Oh yeah, 'cause they want they want you to be able to see the

00:54:27 ◼   ► the lock screen.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Which I just feel like I understand, but that should be my choice, not

00:54:31 ◼   ► yours.

00:54:31 ◼   ► You know like I and I expect they will create a option for this.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Like they did do you remember all the changes they made to the always

00:54:40 ◼   ► on display when they when they launched the always on display?

00:54:44 ◼   ► Like they they added in a bunch of features in the next release that

00:54:47 ◼   ► was like, Turn it off, uh, don't show an image, just show you know

00:54:52 ◼   ► I expect they will probably do some stuff with this because that feels like

00:54:55 ◼   ► something that is a an easy setting to add relay that will alleviate problems

00:55:01 ◼   ► that people have with their phone that d doesn't really affect Apple in any

00:55:05 ◼   ► meaningful way, I feel like.

00:55:07 ◼   ► So I I expect that that they may make some some changes there.

00:55:12 ◼   ► Uh did do were you an action button user?

00:55:15 ◼   ► Uh not really.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I was a big one.

00:55:18 ◼   ► Um I use my action my action buttons tied to a shortcut that lets

00:55:22 ◼   ► me add some tasks to a couple of different apps that I use.

00:55:25 ◼   ► I just added it on my home screen and in control center and it

00:55:28 ◼   ► and it wasn't and and and I haven't had too much of a problem

00:55:31 ◼   ► with it yet, so that's fine, I guess.

00:55:33 ◼   ► One thing I did, you know, you're talking about buttons everywhere.

00:55:36 ◼   ► There is a setting in the settings app in the audio settings, uh, that

00:55:42 ◼   ► lets you change the way that the volume buttons work so they operate like

00:55:48 ◼   ► an iPad does now, where whatever is up is volume up and whatever is

00:55:54 ◼   ► down is volume down.

00:55:56 ◼   ► By default it's fixed.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:59 ◼   ► To to I think right to volume up, left to volume down.

00:56:03 ◼   ► And I find that to be odd that that's the default that they chose

00:56:06 ◼   ► when they have a setting in there.

00:56:08 ◼   ► 'Cause it's like on an iPad you made that change and I think it's

00:56:12 ◼   ► pretty logical, right?

00:56:13 ◼   ► That you don't have to think about which is the volume up and which

00:56:15 ◼   ► is the volume down button when your iPad can be in any orientation, which

00:56:19 ◼   ► is exactly the same as this device.

00:56:21 ◼   ► So I changed that setting and I've been really happy with that.

00:56:25 ◼   ► Have you used an Apple pencil in this thing?

00:56:28 ◼   ► I haven't.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Okay, so I have.

00:56:30 ◼   ► I don't I I yeah, I don't I don't have I th don't think

00:56:33 ◼   ► I have a USB C Apple pencil so I certainly didn't in Arizona.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I had to buy one.

00:56:38 ◼   ► I had to buy one 'cause it became aw clear in the like the

00:56:42 ◼   ► day before the phone came out that twenty seven point two release candidate had

00:56:46 ◼   ► this feature enabled because Apple would say it was coming and it's like, oh,

00:56:50 ◼   ► it's actually in the the release candidate for twenty seven two, which is already

00:56:54 ◼   ► out.

00:56:54 ◼   ► So I ordered one.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Initially it's very strange to use an Apple pencil on an iPhone.

00:57:00 ◼   ► You know, like something that you know is an iPhone.

00:57:02 ◼   ► But it feels good on the inside display, kind of like of that size.

00:57:07 ◼   ► Like something this phone does that iPads don't really do is the rocking on

00:57:12 ◼   ► the table, right?

00:57:13 ◼   ► Like iPads they're they're not so affected by their camera bumps, but this phone

00:57:20 ◼   ► is m obviously much more 'cause the the bump is much more significant.

00:57:24 ◼   ► Um it isn't so much of an issue for me because naturally when I

00:57:28 ◼   ► write, I stabilize my notebook.

00:57:31 ◼   ► I I always like hold any notebook that I use when I write.

00:57:34 ◼   ► So I'm kind of holding the phone and writing.

00:57:37 ◼   ► The inside display is really interesting to use an Apple Pencil on.

00:57:41 ◼   ► Like I've used screen protectors that say, you know, it feels just like paper.

00:57:47 ◼   ► And it it doesn't.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Like there there isn't a scenario where you can take an Apple Pencil on

00:57:52 ◼   ► an iPhone or an iPad and it make it feel like paper, that that

00:57:56 ◼   ► just doesn't exist because well, for me, as someone who really loves pen and

00:58:02 ◼   ► paper, it doesn't exist.

00:58:03 ◼   ► But it has always felt nice to use an Apple pencil on a matte

00:58:07 ◼   ► screen and this is that, right?

00:58:09 ◼   ► You're you're using an Apple pencil on a map display and it has more

00:58:13 ◼   ► texture to it.

00:58:14 ◼   ► And what's particularly nice with the duo is you can compare how it feels

00:58:17 ◼   ► because you can also use the pencil on the outside display.

00:58:20 ◼   ► So you can use it on the outside display and see how that feels,

00:58:23 ◼   ► and use it on the inside display and see how that feels.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Um, I think that this could be a selling point for some people.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Like you you have the ability to have this little thing you can put

00:58:32 ◼   ► in your pocket, you can take it out, you can make notes, you can

00:58:34 ◼   ► draw pictures, you know, you can do art, you can use procreate on this

00:58:38 ◼   ► tiny little uh thing.

00:58:40 ◼   ► I mean, they have procreate pocket.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I don't know what people think about procreate pocket compared to regular Procreate, because

00:58:45 ◼   ► that's not my world.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Um, but there's lots of drawing apps.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Um there's one coming real soon, which is very cool.

00:58:53 ◼   ► Uh I I I don't know if we could mention that.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Do you know if we could I don't I mean it's it was mentioned

00:59:00 ◼   ► on ATP.

00:59:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:01 ◼   ► So Marco's making an app for for notes which is super good.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to his landing page.

00:59:08 ◼   ► I think it's

00:59:10 ◼   ► it is truly astoundingly good.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Uh and so I I'll I'll I'll try and put a link to that

00:59:16 ◼   ► in the show notes.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Yeah there's there's a link to the app in the ATP show notes that

00:59:20 ◼   ► we can put in but it's only when it goes live, which it hasn't

00:59:22 ◼   ► yet.

00:59:23 ◼   ► All right.

00:59:23 ◼   ► I'm gonna put at some point it will, you know, and then and then

00:59:26 ◼   ► I will uh I'll put it I'll put it in the I'll put it

00:59:29 ◼   ► in the yeah it's fine fine liner.

00:59:30 ◼   ► It's it's it's uh I'm looking forward to using it with an actual pencil.

00:59:34 ◼   ► But it's it's amazing.

00:59:36 ◼   ► It's astounding with an actual pencil.

00:59:38 ◼   ► Uh like

00:59:40 ◼   ► Pff i incredible.

00:59:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:42 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a link in the show notes to it when it comes

00:59:44 ◼   ► out.

00:59:44 ◼   ► We'll talk about it when it does.

00:59:45 ◼   ► Uh it would be weird to talk about an app with spoilers.

00:59:50 ◼   ► But

00:59:51 ◼   ► I know, but it really does.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:52 ◼   ► It does.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's it's it's just it's just brilliant.

00:59:56 ◼   ► So like I was able to go through that experience on my I can

00:59:59 ◼   ► use that app and it's actually the app that I've been using and testing

01:00:02 ◼   ► with my Apple Pencil on my iPhone and it's a it's really fun to

01:00:06 ◼   ► to kind of to have something like this just available to me.

01:00:09 ◼   ► Um, I would love I would love a little of one.

01:00:12 ◼   ► I I do hope that they do something like this in in the future.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Um, something that could very easily go into like a kind of like a

01:00:19 ◼   ► fun case that you could throw them all together in.

01:00:21 ◼   ► I I I think would be would be really fun.

01:00:23 ◼   ► You should try it out, but you've got to get an apple a new

01:00:25 ◼   ► a different Apple Pencil to try it out.

01:00:27 ◼   ► Can we before we move on, can we can we talk about Crack Gate

01:00:30 ◼   ► for a second?

01:00:30 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

01:00:32 ◼   ► Yes.

01:00:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I yeah.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I just I'm gonna I have said this about so many gates but I'm

01:00:36 ◼   ► just gonna say it again, which is Apple makes products at volume.

01:00:40 ◼   ► A certain percentage of those products are gonna be duds.

01:00:43 ◼   ► They're gonna have something wrong with them.

01:00:44 ◼   ► On a product like this that's got a bunch of new mechanics, there are

01:00:47 ◼   ► it's gonna be a higher percentage.

01:00:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Um, the internet is really great at magnifying things.

01:00:52 ◼   ► So you'll get you people be like, this isn't a small problem.

01:00:55 ◼   ► There are 20 people on Reddit who are reporting this issue.

01:00:58 ◼   ► And it's like, I'm sorry.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Do the math.

01:01:02 ◼   ► 20 people reporting an issue is not evidence of it being anything but a

01:01:07 ◼   ► small issue.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Um, also, it's a brand new product, and Apple has shown and continues to

01:01:12 ◼   ► show and has shown with this product that if there's a defect First off,

01:01:17 ◼   ► I don't have shipped this product if every third phone cracked.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Because there's like you can some people are reporting that the gr the glass

01:01:24 ◼   ► cracks at some point when they're opening or closing the the the hinge.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And and it's interesting because they're in a bun it's in the same place,

01:01:32 ◼   ► right?

01:01:32 ◼   ► So when I first saw it, when I first saw reports of this on

01:01:35 ◼   ► Reddit I'm like, here we go, people are breaking their phones for clout.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Um and I do think people pose the thing is this is one of

01:01:42 ◼   ► those like things where you are seeing every phone that is broken.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Because every phone that is broken, understandably people are posting it online.

01:01:51 ◼   ► Like like so you're seeing them like in a a much larger amount than

01:01:55 ◼   ► you're seeing the people whose phones are not broken.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And you say they will break.

01:02:01 ◼   ► And it is interesting and I would say somewhat actually concerting that they're all

01:02:06 ◼   ► breaking in the exact same way?

01:02:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:09 ◼   ► It's a it's a it's a defect of some sort that I'm on what

01:02:13 ◼   ► happens in these early days is Apple capture those, captures all of those.

01:02:17 ◼   ► And they want to see them and they and they will give you a

01:02:20 ◼   ► new one.

01:02:20 ◼   ► They'll replace it like 'cause they want to see it and they want to

01:02:23 ◼   ► figure out what's going on so that they can address that issue.

01:02:26 ◼   ► So there's been a couple of teardowns and the teardowns I mean, no one

01:02:30 ◼   ► can know right now, but there's like there is an area in the phone's

01:02:34 ◼   ► hinge where you know, people like iFixit could say, oh, okay, there may be

01:02:42 ◼   ► a stress point right here that is causing this problem, but it's still like

01:02:47 ◼   ► it's causing it for the people, it's causing it Four, it isn't that every

01:02:52 ◼   ► phone is doing this or that every phone even would break this way.

01:02:58 ◼   ► It's like as you say, there is always a percentage of this that every

01:03:02 ◼   ► single time there is something that's gonna go wrong.

01:03:04 ◼   ► And that's why there's always a gate because people can use it for engagement

01:03:07 ◼   ► bait.

01:03:07 ◼   ► I and I don't look.

01:03:09 ◼   ► What I don't want to do is come across as somebody who's like, look,

01:03:13 ◼   ► it's fine, Apple will take care of you.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Don't worry about it.

01:03:14 ◼   ► It's a big deal.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Because I'm not trying to suppress this.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Obviously, if it's a hundredth of a percent versus a tenth of a percent

01:03:23 ◼   ► versus one percent versus ten percent, right?

01:03:26 ◼   ► Like there are huge differences to what the issue is, right?

01:03:33 ◼   ► But What we get is there are people who make money on engagement who

01:03:38 ◼   ► our our Discord is now full of all sorts of thumbnails

01:03:44 ◼   ► from YouTubers of a sad AI John Turnus.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Yeah, and and and a and an upset Tim Cook

01:03:52 ◼   ► um showing a product that is not the iPhone duo at all.

01:03:56 ◼   ► Like it's th there are people look, there are people for whom there's the

01:04:01 ◼   ► reason there's always a gate is because people want there to be a gate

01:04:04 ◼   ► because people will engage with their content.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Um, also I would say that there is a class of content that comes

01:04:09 ◼   ► out this time, which is like concern trolling, which is like, I'm just worried

01:04:13 ◼   ► about people who are worried about buying an iPhone duo because are they are

01:04:18 ◼   ► they worried that something will happen?

01:04:21 ◼   ► And like, forgive me, but I don't think that those people are actually concerned.

01:04:26 ◼   ► I think those people are doing a highfalutin version of the same engagement bait,

01:04:32 ◼   ► which is let's make something out of this thing.

01:04:36 ◼   ► And, you know, if it turns out to be a big deal,

01:04:41 ◼   ► that it will be a big deal.

01:04:43 ◼   ► But But I see no evidence that this is at this point that this

01:04:50 ◼   ► is more than the garden variety, some small percentage of people have issues that

01:04:57 ◼   ► are either

01:04:59 ◼   ► that are either about like the hinge mechanism not being quite right

01:05:05 ◼   ► or something else weird going on.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Um this is a big story if, yeah, basically if you're gonna use one

01:05:12 ◼   ► of these things at some point in the first six months, it's gonna break.

01:05:15 ◼   ► That would be very bad.

01:05:17 ◼   ► But I don't think that's what is happening.

01:05:19 ◼   ► And the thing is, we can't tell.

01:05:21 ◼   ► There is no proof you can give me of about this that is, oh,

01:05:26 ◼   ► but look at the people on Reddit or look at that guy on YouTube

01:05:29 ◼   ► who posted about it or on TikTok who posted about it.

01:05:31 ◼   ► It's like with the volumes, even of a low volume phone like the iPhone

01:05:35 ◼   ► Duo, the volumes of product that Apple makes

01:05:39 ◼   ► Some percentage of them are always going to be bad.

01:05:42 ◼   ► And that's why there's always a gate.

01:05:44 ◼   ► But so that's my caution for now is don't get sucked in by the

01:05:48 ◼   ► the engagement bait.

01:05:50 ◼   ► If this is an issue, we will discover that it's an issue.

01:05:53 ◼   ► And And if this happens to you, you just tell Apple.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Even iFix It.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Their headline is the most repairable folder was a huge screen problem.

01:06:02 ◼   ► It's not a huge problem.

01:06:03 ◼   ► It isn't a huge problem.

01:06:05 ◼   ► There is clearly something that is happening.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Well and iFixit aga I mean, don't get me started on iFixit, but iFixit

01:06:12 ◼   ► iFixit has no knowledge of it.

01:06:13 ◼   ► So they're like well we did a we did a a CAT scan of

01:06:16 ◼   ► the hinge and made a three D model that you can download and play

01:06:19 ◼   ► with.

01:06:19 ◼   ► And based on that, it's very much a doctor who's like, Well this patient

01:06:23 ◼   ► says they've got this, and I've never seen that patient, but let me tell

01:06:26 ◼   ► you what is wrong with them.

01:06:27 ◼   ► And a lot of doctors are like, No, no, no, don't you didn't see

01:06:30 ◼   ► that patient.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Um, it's a little like that, where it's like, Well, we haven't seen this,

01:06:34 ◼   ► but we have a theory.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, well, that's again it's great for engagement, but that's not it.

01:06:39 ◼   ► And so I just again just be a smart consumer of information.

01:06:44 ◼   ► We actually while we were recording, Apple just provided a statement to Mark Gurman

01:06:49 ◼   ► about this.

01:06:49 ◼   ► We're aware of an issue impacting the inner display on a small number of

01:06:53 ◼   ► iPhone Duo units.

01:06:54 ◼   ► If users experience issues with their iPhone duo display, they should contact Apple Care

01:06:57 ◼   ► for a replacement.

01:06:58 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:06:59 ◼   ► It's that simple.

01:06:59 ◼   ► There isn't a recall right?

01:07:02 ◼   ► You get a new one, they take that one back and figure out what's

01:07:05 ◼   ► wrong with it.

01:07:06 ◼   ► That's what warranties are all about.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Yep.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So anyway, that it that's that's my take on Crackgate, which is not that

01:07:15 ◼   ► it's nothing, but that

01:07:18 ◼   ► you should not let it

01:07:21 ◼   ► freak you out and you should not engage with those people want you to

01:07:25 ◼   ► they want look, bottom line is this is in the bin of content that

01:07:28 ◼   ► is people want to make you angry or upset or worried.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Because it benefits them.

01:07:34 ◼   ► They'll play their game.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Yes, this is absolutely the most potentially delicate phone Apple's ever made.

01:07:39 ◼   ► But like, I wouldn't say that you should be worried that this exact thing

01:07:43 ◼   ► is going to happen to your phone because it's clear if it does, they'll

01:07:48 ◼   ► give you a new one.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Like they'll give you a new philosophy.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Or give you your money back.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I mean honestly, they'll give you a new phone or give you your own

01:07:53 ◼   ► money back because this is a brand new device.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Now, if if you are saying, Well, wow, this makes me really worried that

01:08:00 ◼   ► it i it's gonna all of them are gonna break within the first year

01:08:03 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:08:03 ◼   ► It's like, well, I understand that a little bit more, although I would say

01:08:07 ◼   ► again, I don't actually believe that this is evidence of that.

01:08:10 ◼   ► But if you want to again, people want to make you afraid.

01:08:13 ◼   ► That's that's it because it benefits them.

01:08:14 ◼   ► And if you want to play that game, you can.

01:08:17 ◼   ► I have

01:08:19 ◼   ► I i in recent years I have been harsher and harsher when it comes

01:08:25 ◼   ► to people who just want to make everybody angry or afraid.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Because I think those people are very, very bad.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Um, and I encourage everybody to not play their game.

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01:10:29 ◼   ► I don't know about you.

01:10:31 ◼   ► I'm in the process of completely rethinking and reworking my entire home screen.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Oh yeah, th there I think this probably will be universal.

01:10:40 ◼   ► I think there's

01:10:42 ◼   ► the iPhone Duo because I migrated from my phone, so my home screen came

01:10:45 ◼   ► over.

01:10:46 ◼   ► And about it was Mike, it was like two hours in.

01:10:49 ◼   ► I was like, I just gotta throw it out and start again.

01:10:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:52 ◼   ► Like the entire premise.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Like I've had the same apps in my dock for ages.

01:10:56 ◼   ► And I'm like the dock isn't the same here.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Like let fun fundamentally, like what do I what did I use the doc

01:11:02 ◼   ► for?

01:11:02 ◼   ► Because I didn't have many, many pages of apps.

01:11:05 ◼   ► What did I use the doc for?

01:11:06 ◼   ► I used the doc for the apps at the bottom of the screen that

01:11:09 ◼   ► they were the easiest to get to.

01:11:11 ◼   ► Well now the doc is on the side.

01:11:12 ◼   ► And I'm like, I don't want those apps in the dock anymore.

01:11:16 ◼   ► I want uh the doc needs to serve a different purpose.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I don't know what that purpose is, but I I so I'm yeah, all

01:11:24 ◼   ► of it I I started to ask.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Also, you know, that um that today view, right?

01:11:29 ◼   ► The mysterious list of widgets that didn't seem that important until the iPhone Duo

01:11:34 ◼   ► came out and you're like, oh, when you open, it actually shows that as

01:11:37 ◼   ► the the left of the two screens.

01:11:39 ◼   ► The left screen that in all of Apple's images is like an extra large

01:11:42 ◼   ► photo widget.

01:11:44 ◼   ► It's not part of your home screen.

01:11:46 ◼   ► It's the today's today view where you would

01:11:50 ◼   ► of page one.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:11:51 ◼   ► And so I I had to rebuild the the today view too because I

01:11:56 ◼   ► thought, well, I I want to get some different things out of that.

01:12:00 ◼   ► So like, yeah, the whole home screen idea, I don't know where it's gonna

01:12:04 ◼   ► end up.

01:12:04 ◼   ► It's all a jumble right now, but definitely it's not

01:12:09 ◼   ► I mean and it and yeah, it's not what it was.

01:12:12 ◼   ► I I am still struggling with what it is going to be, but it

01:12:15 ◼   ► all the rules that I had set up for years and years on my

01:12:19 ◼   ► iPhone are just out the window with the duo.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I I spent a couple of days feeling like this is all wrong.

01:12:25 ◼   ► This is all wrong.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Because I also did I was going to set my phone up as fresh

01:12:28 ◼   ► and I was talking to Adina about it and she's like, what about your

01:12:31 ◼   ► focus modes and everything?

01:12:32 ◼   ► And I was like, Oh my god, you've saved my life.

01:12:35 ◼   ► Like I all of the little settings changes that I have made, I would

01:12:40 ◼   ► have spent months being like, Well, this is broken, this is broken, and like

01:12:43 ◼   ► trying to undo all of that.

01:12:44 ◼   ► It's like I think at this point i the iPhone has become too complicated

01:12:48 ◼   ► for me ever to imagine setting something up as brand new again.

01:12:52 ◼   ► And I know some things would sink, but like what?

01:12:55 ◼   ► It's like I don't know if I want to be in that like life.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:12:59 ◼   ► So I didn't I just went with this and it actually worked out to

01:13:02 ◼   ► be good because then I just had all the apps that I needed and

01:13:04 ◼   ► I'm starting again.

01:13:05 ◼   ► I know everyone at Discord right now is telling me my focus mode sync

01:13:07 ◼   ► over iCloud.

01:13:08 ◼   ► I understand that.

01:13:09 ◼   ► But as a a general idea, would all of my settings sync?

01:13:13 ◼   ► Like they would not.

01:13:14 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:13:15 ◼   ► So I decided to set it up.

01:13:17 ◼   ► Better safe than sorry.

01:13:18 ◼   ► But what that meant was that my phone didn't feel right.

01:13:22 ◼   ► It's like oh I I don't want the left side of my display to

01:13:26 ◼   ► be that big shortcuts widget.

01:13:27 ◼   ► But that was what I wanted as the today view, but I don't want

01:13:30 ◼   ► it on my home screen.

01:13:32 ◼   ► And so I did a bunch of changes.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Um

01:13:36 ◼   ► and I like I've reduced the amount of pages that I have because I

01:13:41 ◼   ► d it isn't but it feels like it's more effort to swipe to the

01:13:44 ◼   ► app library than before.

01:13:46 ◼   ► But I think it's 'cause the animation is different.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Um so that you know, but so I I actually don't want as many

01:13:53 ◼   ► displays and I've moved a lot of widgets over and nothing is where it

01:13:56 ◼   ► was before really.

01:13:57 ◼   ► And I've consolidated some apps into a folder that I didn't have before.

01:14:01 ◼   ► And I'm still trying to get my head around how I want it to

01:14:04 ◼   ► work.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Because even that when I have the the the inside display, it's like, oh

01:14:08 ◼   ► that's nice.

01:14:09 ◼   ► I've got all my widgets.

01:14:10 ◼   ► But then when I close it, well they're not there anymore.

01:14:13 ◼   ► They're now to the left.

01:14:14 ◼   ► And so do I want all those widgets to be hidden from the outside

01:14:18 ◼   ► display?

01:14:18 ◼   ► And so yeah, it take it's going to be a long process, I think,

01:14:23 ◼   ► to to kind of work out what I want my home screen to look

01:14:27 ◼   ► like.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Um and while we're talking about home screens,

01:14:31 ◼   ► the open like when you've got the phone open in portrait mode, man, it

01:14:36 ◼   ► looks terrible.

01:14:37 ◼   ► The spacing of everything is so bad.

01:14:39 ◼   ► It's real iPad, we don't know what we're doing here.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:42 ◼   ► Kind of because it's one screen, but it's all aired out and just so

01:14:46 ◼   ► much space.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And it the the icons in the app library are too far away from

01:14:50 ◼   ► each other, like just crazy.

01:14:52 ◼   ► I noticed and some of this is also like, I mean they'll they'll figure

01:14:55 ◼   ► it out.

01:14:57 ◼   ► I've been trying the Siri app suggestion widget

01:15:02 ◼   ► on page two.

01:15:04 ◼   ► Because I'm I'm experimenting with a page two.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And it's interesting because it does a pretty good job.

01:15:10 ◼   ► If you've like your go to apps and then you've got this widget, it

01:15:14 ◼   ► does a pretty good job, I think, of of guessing what apps you might

01:15:17 ◼   ► want to launch.

01:15:18 ◼   ► And so then you don't have to dig further, you don't search.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Okay, I'm trying that at the suggestion of listener Mahir.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Um, but when I put it on,

01:15:28 ◼   ► the spacing was different on the widget than it was on the apps that

01:15:31 ◼   ► are on the home screen.

01:15:32 ◼   ► I'm like, what is happening?

01:15:34 ◼   ► And then I rotated it and then it then they were fine.

01:15:37 ◼   ► And I rotated it back and then they were fine.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Oh.

01:15:39 ◼   ► And I'm like, I so I mean again, new software bugs, weird.

01:15:45 ◼   ► It's just all weird.

01:15:46 ◼   ► It's just, I mean that's this is what we this is what we're doing.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Is uh there's a lot of weird stuff going on here.

01:15:52 ◼   ► But yeah, that that I get why they did it was like we must

01:15:56 ◼   ► not compromise the

01:15:58 ◼   ► the the atomic nature of the single home screen page.

01:16:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:16:04 ◼   ► But it it's really weird.

01:16:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:08 ◼   ► Control Center too.

01:16:09 ◼   ► I was not expecting to be so busted, but like it's busted because there's

01:16:13 ◼   ► not as many rows that fit.

01:16:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:16 ◼   ► So like I I had everything all set up and I've had to do

01:16:19 ◼   ► I actually found that harder to work out like what do I want to

01:16:22 ◼   ► remove 'cause I didn't want my home controls set over two different displays, for

01:16:26 ◼   ► example.

01:16:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:27 ◼   ► My thought was finally a a use for multi page control center.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Like I never really embraced multi page control center.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Yep.

01:16:35 ◼   ► But for this I'm like, oh yeah, okay.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Multipage control center kind of makes sense because you can't fit as many controls

01:16:41 ◼   ► on page one.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Well I I opened mine up 'cause I have I have two two home

01:16:46 ◼   ► pages and I like that they you know they they make them a little

01:16:48 ◼   ► home icon if you put all home controls in the home uh in in

01:16:52 ◼   ► the control center page.

01:16:53 ◼   ► But I have two Apple homes.

01:16:56 ◼   ► I have my home and my studio.

01:16:58 ◼   ► So then I had four home pages.

01:17:00 ◼   ► It's like that's that's too many.

01:17:03 ◼   ► That's too many.

01:17:03 ◼   ► And so I've

01:17:05 ◼   ► I had to kind of like make some decisions about some you know, what

01:17:07 ◼   ► are my least used used uh buttons that I press and kind of ended

01:17:11 ◼   ► up getting rid of a few of them.

01:17:13 ◼   ► But that was actually harder than I thought.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Talking about centers, uh notification center being all the way on the left on

01:17:19 ◼   ► this display, it's a bit hard to get to.

01:17:22 ◼   ► Hard to get to.

01:17:24 ◼   ► I agree.

01:17:24 ◼   ► I agree.

01:17:25 ◼   ► There's something wrong there.

01:17:26 ◼   ► It's not quite enough.

01:17:27 ◼   ► I I I have tried and failed to pull down notification center way more

01:17:31 ◼   ► times.

01:17:32 ◼   ► So many different likes.

01:17:33 ◼   ► I feel like well no I don't know what the answer is, 'cause at

01:17:36 ◼   ► first I was like, Oh, just don't

01:17:40 ◼   ► you know, just don't have Siri pulled down from the top, just have Siri

01:17:43 ◼   ► pulled down from the middle of home display.

01:17:45 ◼   ► But I understand that they want and I kind of do like now having

01:17:48 ◼   ► Siri available or all the time in text form.

01:17:52 ◼   ► So like that is a nice thing to have.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Maybe I would swap them, you know?

01:17:56 ◼   ► S sir but yeah, it's it's complicated.

01:17:58 ◼   ► There I don't know.

01:17:59 ◼   ► I don't think there's a great way to deal with this, but I do

01:18:01 ◼   ► know that I use my notification

01:18:07 ◼   ► So I do find that to be uh to be difficult.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Um what has been your kind of like

01:18:16 ◼   ► your overall feeling With how and this is maybe even too big of a

01:18:20 ◼   ► question to ask him one, but how kind of iOS feels?

01:18:25 ◼   ► Like how does iOS as a thing feel on this device?

01:18:33 ◼   ► Well, like I said before, it it's a phone.

01:18:35 ◼   ► It is iOS.

01:18:37 ◼   ► It's not iPad OS.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Um I

01:18:42 ◼   ► I I mean, it feels

01:18:44 ◼   ► like they're still figuring it out.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:46 ◼   ► That's what it feels like to me.

01:18:47 ◼   ► I think you can use it like an like an iPhone and it works.

01:18:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:52 ◼   ► But when you try to use it in ways that are maybe unique to

01:18:54 ◼   ► the iPhone duo, you can see that it's work in progress.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:59 ◼   ► If that makes any sense, no, it does.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Like I mean the the the way that I've been thinking about it is

01:19:04 ◼   ► it feels like what it is, which is an existing operating system that they've

01:19:07 ◼   ► tried that was designed for specific screens and they've tried to squeeze it into

01:19:10 ◼   ► a different one.

01:19:12 ◼   ► And it it means that sometimes it just kind of acts strange.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Like there are just so many visual bugs like everywhere.

01:19:21 ◼   ► But that is just kind of what I would expect for something like this.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I I think that all things considered, I think they've done a very good

01:19:29 ◼   ► job, but it's what adds to the kind of first generation one point Oiness

01:19:34 ◼   ► of this product

01:19:36 ◼   ► is that

01:19:37 ◼   ► some parts of it are just odd.

01:19:39 ◼   ► Like they just don't it just doesn't work the way that you think it's

01:19:42 ◼   ► going to.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Or there's things that feel missing or things that to me feel obvious that

01:19:47 ◼   ► they didn't put in.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Like, why is there no sw like floating keyboard like I have on the

01:19:52 ◼   ► iPad?

01:19:52 ◼   ► Like why is that not there?

01:19:53 ◼   ► Like I feel like that should be there and they haven't done that.

01:19:56 ◼   ► And so there's so some parts of it that are that are strange.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Split view though, fantastic.

01:20:02 ◼   ► I love it.

01:20:03 ◼   ► You it initiates very easy.

01:20:05 ◼   ► It's and it has the the easiest way of adding apps that I've ever

01:20:09 ◼   ► experienced in any of their multitasking things.

01:20:11 ◼   ► You just go back to the home screen on one side.

01:20:14 ◼   ► It's really, really good.

01:20:16 ◼   ► Really good.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I

01:20:19 ◼   ► I don't think a multicolumn

01:20:23 ◼   ► view is my is my favorite thing.

01:20:26 ◼   ► I have not found I have not yet found the right pairing of apps

01:20:30 ◼   ► that makes sense there.

01:20:31 ◼   ► I guess is what I would say.

01:20:32 ◼   ► I I I I see it and it's very easy to instantiate, but I

01:20:37 ◼   ► have never gotten myself in a situation where I would like

01:20:41 ◼   ► I think you need to be working in two apps to have it make

01:20:44 ◼   ► sense.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Because what I so my favorite uh social media client, Indigo,

01:20:49 ◼   ► came out with a new version and across all platforms, they now support multi-column

01:20:55 ◼   ► view.

01:20:55 ◼   ► So it's like tweak deck from back in the day.

01:20:58 ◼   ► So you can have like your timeline for me, it's your timeline, your sports

01:21:03 ◼   ► timeline, and your replies all in columns.

01:21:06 ◼   ► Turned it off.

01:21:09 ◼   ► I don't need to see three things at once.

01:21:11 ◼   ► I don't need to scroll through three things at once.

01:21:13 ◼   ► And on the iPhone Duo and friend of the show, Ben who is one

01:21:17 ◼   ► of the developers of that, they asked me, Oh, how do you like the

01:21:20 ◼   ► multi-column view on the iPhone Duo?

01:21:23 ◼   ► And I said, I turned it off.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Because

01:21:27 ◼   ► that kind of side by side, whether it's two apps, or it's uh a

01:21:32 ◼   ► two-column view, to me,

01:21:35 ◼   ► if I'm looking at a column, I don't want to column.

01:21:38 ◼   ► It's it's distracting.

01:21:40 ◼   ► So I haven't yet got a scenario where I'm taking notes over here and

01:21:46 ◼   ► looking at a web page over there.

01:21:47 ◼   ► And I'm sure that will happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

01:21:50 ◼   ► I have

01:21:51 ◼   ► been using an app while there's video playing at the top.

01:21:55 ◼   ► Yes.

01:21:55 ◼   ► And that's fun.

01:21:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:57 ◼   ► That's actually pretty fun.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Yeah, that new picture in picture thing.

01:22:00 ◼   ► It's picture in picture that's instead it's like picture on top of app.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:04 ◼   ► Um, I have used the split screen quite a bit, but I don't have

01:22:09 ◼   ► any two apps that I want to always be together.

01:22:12 ◼   ► Like it's very much a I'm doing something right now.

01:22:15 ◼   ► I would otherwise be going between these two applications.

01:22:18 ◼   ► I will bring them both up next to each other.

01:22:20 ◼   ► Like copying and pasting something from one app to another app or uh it's

01:22:25 ◼   ► simple stuff like that, but things where otherwise I'm going back, forth, back, forth

01:22:30 ◼   ► between two.

01:22:31 ◼   ► And I love that I can't.

01:22:32 ◼   ► That's when you want it.

01:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:33 ◼   ► That's when you want it.

01:22:34 ◼   ► And that's been working really great for me.

01:22:35 ◼   ► Now my issues my issues are more

01:22:39 ◼   ► okay.

01:22:40 ◼   ► This is we're gonna get in the weeds here for a second.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Let's do it.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Um

01:22:44 ◼   ► So toolbars are now sidebars some of the time.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:22:50 ◼   ► And that's to get more height because if you're using the outside screen or

01:22:54 ◼   ► the inside screen in horizontal, the you don't have a lot of height.

01:22:59 ◼   ► And so they put the toolbars kind of on the side, which is okay,

01:23:03 ◼   ► except

01:23:04 ◼   ► like the back button is on the right side.

01:23:06 ◼   ► I hate it.

01:23:07 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense to me.

01:23:08 ◼   ► Um the the way those buttons are organized is often very confusing and weird.

01:23:13 ◼   ► And again, the developers all will just figure it out.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Everybody'll figure it out.

01:23:18 ◼   ► But right now I mean, the toolbar situation is not great.

01:23:23 ◼   ► It is weird and hard to navigate, ironically.

01:23:29 ◼   ► And that's one of the areas where and some of it is natural.

01:23:33 ◼   ► It's an app I'm very familiar with, and now I am not, because everything

01:23:39 ◼   ► moved somewhere else.

01:23:40 ◼   ► And it's gonna take some getting used to, but I think it also is

01:23:43 ◼   ► a problem that needs to be solved in terms of organization, because the organization

01:23:47 ◼   ► of those toolbars is totally different than it is on a standard phone.

01:23:52 ◼   ► And I don't know, it's kind of all over the place.

01:23:55 ◼   ► So that that's my that's my big issue right now is just

01:24:01 ◼   ► I don't know if any app is doing a good enough job of solving

01:24:07 ◼   ► the issues involving what navigational elements get surfaced.

01:24:11 ◼   ► And I'll give you another example that's not quite toolbar-based, which is I wanted

01:24:14 ◼   ► to share a story in Safari and I was like, Where's the share button?

01:24:21 ◼   ► Yeah, where where is that thing?

01:24:23 ◼   ► And it's under the like website settings.

01:24:26 ◼   ► There's an enormous menu that comes up.

01:24:31 ◼   ► And I had to scroll down to find it.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:35 ◼   ► Like

01:24:36 ◼   ► I I I appreciate that this is a heart problem, but there's something there.

01:24:40 ◼   ► That's not it shouldn't that it doesn't make sense to me at all.

01:24:43 ◼   ► And maybe I'll get used to it, but like I it just I don't

01:24:48 ◼   ► I don't I don't understand it.

01:24:49 ◼   ► So so this is when I say Apple still needs to figure stuff out.

01:24:52 ◼   ► Apple still also like so that Safari behavior just doesn't make any sense.

01:24:56 ◼   ► It's completely illogical.

01:24:58 ◼   ► And I appreciate that everybody at Apple had a lot of work to do.

01:25:02 ◼   ► And the iPhone Duo version of their app was one of the things they

01:25:05 ◼   ► had to do.

01:25:06 ◼   ► But this is a place where Apple needs to be iterating the whole twenty-seven

01:25:11 ◼   ► cycle because it's just not there.

01:25:16 ◼   ► But I think that is everyone's experience, right?

01:25:19 ◼   ► Where

01:25:21 ◼   ► there is a thing of like using this thing and then

01:25:26 ◼   ► Using

01:25:29 ◼   ► using it in real life.

01:25:31 ◼   ► Right?

01:25:32 ◼   ► So like a so many developers have done work f in the simulator on

01:25:36 ◼   ► their apps and they have a version that like it works and it it

01:25:39 ◼   ► looks good and they're happy with it.

01:25:41 ◼   ► But then you put it in your hands and it's like that's not that's

01:25:46 ◼   ► not right.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Like it and it's a thing that we always knew would be the case,

01:25:50 ◼   ► right?

01:25:50 ◼   ► That like this is

01:25:53 ◼   ► what this is always like.

01:25:55 ◼   ► It's like this stuff is always like.

01:25:57 ◼   ► And there are going to need to be better UI ideas in general for

01:26:05 ◼   ► how a device like this should work.

01:26:07 ◼   ► Because like some apps just look awkward with the right-hand navigation.

01:26:12 ◼   ► Like even the ones that are built to support it.

01:26:14 ◼   ► Like it just feels like something is is missing um, or it's it cuts

01:26:20 ◼   ► off in a strange way, um, or things collide or clash, uh, there's there's

01:26:27 ◼   ► work that needs to be done.

01:26:28 ◼   ► And that is in Apple's apps and and everywhere.

01:26:30 ◼   ► Like I um I really like the laptop mode more than I thought I

01:26:34 ◼   ► would, right?

01:26:34 ◼   ► Where you kind of sit it down, you've got keyboard, the keyboard kind of

01:26:37 ◼   ► gets a bit bigger and you can just type on it.

01:26:39 ◼   ► I actually find it really natural and I've I've done a bunch of writing

01:26:42 ◼   ► on my iPhone duo in the past couple of days to have it on

01:26:45 ◼   ► the table and I'm typing in it.

01:26:46 ◼   ► But in the notes app, it gets to a certain point and the text

01:26:51 ◼   ► stops scrolling and it just starts disappearing behind the p toolbar and it's going

01:26:56 ◼   ► underneath the keyboard.

01:26:56 ◼   ► And it's well that's not right, is it?

01:26:58 ◼   ► Like there's yeah something's not right here.

01:27:00 ◼   ► Like it what you it there there are quirks everywhere, like just everywhere.

01:27:05 ◼   ► But that is what this experience is.

01:27:08 ◼   ► I don't consider it a negative, I consider it an expectation of something like

01:27:13 ◼   ► this because if you take a big swing, you're gonna be you're gonna be

01:27:18 ◼   ► picking up the little pieces of that for a long time.

01:27:22 ◼   ► And that is where they are with this product.

01:27:25 ◼   ► And that's where do uh third party developers are gonna be.

01:27:28 ◼   ► I would say in general, I am v I am very surprised with the

01:27:32 ◼   ► amount of app up the app updates that there have been to support this

01:27:36 ◼   ► thing in significant ways.

01:27:39 ◼   ► Like people who have really tried.

01:27:41 ◼   ► Like there's I I'm seeing more of that than I thought I would have

01:27:44 ◼   ► seen even like on day one, even there was a lot of stuff uh

01:27:48 ◼   ► in the app store of people that have a duo layout.

01:27:51 ◼   ► Um but of course everybody has like the app that they use or the

01:27:56 ◼   ► apps that they use that haven't and maybe there's no timeline.

01:28:01 ◼   ► I know that y I saw you uh saying on Six Colors that like

01:28:03 ◼   ► you need a new RSS reader now.

01:28:06 ◼   ► Yeah and and somebody got really angry and they're like, How dare you l

01:28:09 ◼   ► uh like uh look, I've used a good RSS reader but it hasn't gotten

01:28:13 ◼   ► an update for twenty seven and that matters and if I'm gonna try to

01:28:17 ◼   ► use this thing and read stuff and that app hasn't been updated, I'm gonna

01:28:20 ◼   ► have to use a different app, at least in the meantime.

01:28:23 ◼   ► And um I am.

01:28:25 ◼   ► I'm using Net Newswire and it's fine, although again, I'm reminded of all the

01:28:29 ◼   ► things that I prefer in the other app.

01:28:31 ◼   ► And I w we'll just have to muddle through.

01:28:34 ◼   ► But it's an opportunity for app developers who want to embrace the iPhone Duo.

01:28:39 ◼   ► Um yeah.

01:28:40 ◼   ► And we'll see how the use I mean, for me the real question is

01:28:47 ◼   ► how is remains like

01:28:50 ◼   ► Does my iPad become more productivity and do I not worry about it so

01:28:55 ◼   ► much in the morning or in the evening?

01:28:57 ◼   ► And I just kind of keep the duo around?

01:29:00 ◼   ► Or do I ultimately think

01:29:03 ◼   ► no, if I'm at home, I can just use my big iPad and it's

01:29:06 ◼   ► fine.

01:29:06 ◼   ► But maybe if I travel, I don't bring the iPad and I just bring

01:29:11 ◼   ► the duo because the duo will serve as that in a pinch, even if

01:29:17 ◼   ► it's not as good as having the full big iPad screen.

01:29:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:20 ◼   ► These are the questions that I've been curious about since the first rumors of

01:29:23 ◼   ► this and I don't have answers to yet.

01:29:25 ◼   ► No.

01:29:25 ◼   ► But I will continue to explore it because I think like I could do

01:29:29 ◼   ► most of the things I do with my iPad with this device with it

01:29:33 ◼   ► open.

01:29:33 ◼   ► It's more

01:29:37 ◼   ► how much how good is that experience versus the experience of using the iPad?

01:29:42 ◼   ► And do I ultimately say, eh, I mean the iPad's nicer, so I'll just

01:29:47 ◼   ► use this occasionally, or do will I be able to kind of like fully

01:29:50 ◼   ► commit to it?

01:29:50 ◼   ► And I just don't know.

01:29:52 ◼   ► Can I talk about a couple of things that I've been experiences I've had

01:29:56 ◼   ► working, like trying to get work done on this site?

01:29:58 ◼   ► Yes, please.

01:29:59 ◼   ► Because I've had a few really great experiences so far.

01:30:02 ◼   ► So there are there are quite a few websites that I need to check

01:30:06 ◼   ► in on that have t just do not work on the iPhone.

01:30:10 ◼   ► Like they just don't.

01:30:11 ◼   ► And you can't request desktop website for them.

01:30:14 ◼   ► And if you turn your phone to landscape, it just doesn't help you.

01:30:17 ◼   ► And these are like things, tools that I need, web tools that I need

01:30:20 ◼   ► for checking various work stuff.

01:30:23 ◼   ► The inside screen on the duo makes them usable in a way that was

01:30:27 ◼   ► never possible before.

01:30:28 ◼   ► Like I can just open up these websites, see them in full, like and

01:30:31 ◼   ► and I can do exactly what I need to do.

01:30:33 ◼   ► Like to me, that is a win on its own of like, oh, there

01:30:36 ◼   ► is a bunch of stuff that I used to have to wait until I

01:30:39 ◼   ► was at a Mac to be able to check on and now I can

01:30:42 ◼   ► just do them my iPhone.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Brilliant.

01:30:44 ◼   ► Um there were a few places where I wanted a l to be able

01:30:50 ◼   ► to change the zoom level a little bit to see more on screen, right?

01:30:54 ◼   ► And I'm actually surprised that there aren't zoom level settings on this device to

01:30:59 ◼   ► go even smaller.

01:31:00 ◼   ► Like sometimes you can get like more space or whatever in some of their

01:31:03 ◼   ► stuff, but you can't do that here.

01:31:05 ◼   ► Um and I found myself on some web pages kind of like zooming out.

01:31:10 ◼   ► You know, you can go into the to into the very long list of

01:31:13 ◼   ► settings that exist in Safari and you can do a zoom out.

01:31:16 ◼   ► And one of the places that I was doing this a lot was on

01:31:20 ◼   ► the uh we have like a internal feedback system for relay, right?

01:31:24 ◼   ► So people would send in their questions and it was it was just cutting

01:31:27 ◼   ► it off when I would open it in the large inside screen of the

01:31:30 ◼   ► duo.

01:31:31 ◼   ► So I wasn't seeing the full question and I was having to zoom and

01:31:33 ◼   ► like pan around a bit.

01:31:34 ◼   ► And so I was like, Oh, I'll just set the zoom level.

01:31:36 ◼   ► But then it set the zoom level for the entire relay site, which I

01:31:39 ◼   ► didn't want.

01:31:40 ◼   ► So I thought hang on a minute, I have an idea.

01:31:43 ◼   ► I described a Safari extension.

01:31:45 ◼   ► Oh no.

01:31:46 ◼   ► That would make any of our

01:31:49 ◼   ► any relay URL that has the word feedback, I said this is what I

01:31:54 ◼   ► said.

01:31:55 ◼   ► I said for any URL on the relay.fm website that has feedback in the

01:32:00 ◼   ► URL.

01:32:01 ◼   ► Set that page to 80% zoom.

01:32:04 ◼   ► Did it perfect.

01:32:05 ◼   ► And it works.

01:32:06 ◼   ► Awesome.

01:32:06 ◼   ► And so it doesn't do it on the main, on any other page except

01:32:09 ◼   ► those pages.

01:32:10 ◼   ► That's like, oh brilliant.

01:32:11 ◼   ► Like this is I had this sort of like I've just I've just did

01:32:14 ◼   ► the whole thing.

01:32:14 ◼   ► I just did the whole product cycle here.

01:32:16 ◼   ► Like I I'm I'm like a true iOS user.

01:32:19 ◼   ► I described a Safari extension.

01:32:23 ◼   ► And I I had this thing where I was writing

01:32:27 ◼   ► this was one of these things where I was sitting in front of my

01:32:30 ◼   ► Mac and doing this on my iPhone because I was like, let me see

01:32:32 ◼   ► how I would do this, right?

01:32:34 ◼   ► I needed to write some ad copy for an episode of Design in California.

01:32:39 ◼   ► So I was I opened up Ulysses in laptop mode.

01:32:42 ◼   ► So I sat there and I typed out the whole ad copy.

01:32:45 ◼   ► So just you know, just typing away and I find that really great.

01:32:48 ◼   ► Like, you know, you're hunting and pecking from a typing perspective.