Upgrade

00:00:09 ◼   ► From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode six hundred and forty-two for October nineteenth twenty

00:00:15 ◼   ► twenty six today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Sentry, Claude and Planet

00:00:20 ◼   ► Money.

00:00:21 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley, I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hi Mike Hurley, how are you?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm very good.

00:00:27 ◼   ► I'm very good.

00:00:28 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:29 ◼   ► Doing fine.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Great.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Doing okay.

00:00:31 ◼   ► After the uh issue with the snow talk question last week, I decided to

00:00:35 ◼   ► return to form.

00:00:36 ◼   ► And Chris writes in and says, Jason, how's the weather today?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Oh, nice.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Sunny right now.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Very sunny.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Um but cooler.

00:00:46 ◼   ► The temperatures have dropped.

00:00:47 ◼   ► It was warm last week.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Cooler now.

00:00:49 ◼   ► And it's gonna rain later this week.

00:00:51 ◼   ► How about you, Mike?

00:00:52 ◼   ► Yeah, we're into it's it's it's sweater at home time uh now.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Like we're into that now.

00:00:57 ◼   ► So nice.

00:00:58 ◼   ► It is it is cold.

00:00:59 ◼   ► It is it was raining a lot over the weekend.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Um so yeah, we're in I'm fine with it though.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I like clothing wise, this is my favorite time of the year.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Like I like a sweater, just as like a thing that I wear all

00:01:14 ◼   ► the time.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I'm wearing my Ted Lasso sweater today that I got at WWDC like twenty

00:01:20 ◼   ► twenty three or something like that.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Like when they remember that there was that one year they just had in

00:01:24 ◼   ► the visitor center, they just had a bunch of Ted Lasso merchandise, like Nike

00:01:28 ◼   ► Ted Lasso merchandise.

00:01:29 ◼   ► So it's a good time for that.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Uh we actually just got some breaking news.

00:01:34 ◼   ► So let's jump right into follow up.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Because there's something going on right now, uh as I can tell from the

00:01:39 ◼   ► Discord.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But if you uh would like to send in your own Snelltalk question for

00:01:44 ◼   ► us to answer in a future episode of the show, it's very easy.

00:01:48 ◼   ► All you need to do is go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send your

00:01:52 ◼   ► question.

00:01:53 ◼   ► In.

00:01:54 ◼   ► So this breaking news, Greg Joswiak just posted uh a teaser to a saying,

00:02:01 ◼   ► can't wait to pro and tell next week.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Oh, Jaws.

00:02:06 ◼   ► You know when you just feel like Jules wrote that himself, you know?

00:02:11 ◼   ► Breaking.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Breaking news.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Here.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Uh I received moments ago an email

00:02:17 ◼   ► that says Pro Intel.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Hi Jason.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Hi Jason.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Please join us in person for a special Apple experience in Los Angeles, October

00:02:25 ◼   ► twenty eighth, twenty twenty six.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:29 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I and I'm not I Marcus, uh there's in in the Six Colors Discord

00:02:34 ◼   ► there's a Uh post from Marcus Brownley showing the same thing.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So so the invitations are out for this event next week.

00:02:40 ◼   ► All right.

00:02:41 ◼   ► So Jason will be in LA, I suppose.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I I suppose I'm going to LA.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:47 ◼   ► That seems to be happening.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:48 ◼   ► This is an interesting thing to happen just as we start.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I mean, because it's like, you know, usually we'd move the episode.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Should we just do a draft?

00:02:55 ◼   ► Well we're not gonna do that.

00:02:56 ◼   ► But like next week it up is the iPhone duo.

00:02:59 ◼   ► So moving the episode it would seem really

00:03:06 ◼   ► I think we're just gonna have to deal with it.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Uh do of we'll talk about it, but I don't I I would exp

00:03:12 ◼   ► we will have an episode on Monday for sure.

00:03:14 ◼   ► I think so.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I think so.

00:03:16 ◼   ► And so Maybe we'll draft a little bit.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Maybe we will.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Maybe we will.

00:03:21 ◼   ► That's that's something for future us to talk about because right now we do

00:03:24 ◼   ► have some actual follow up to deal with.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Um more thoughts on the Apple T V.

00:03:29 ◼   ► So you wrote an article about the $299 Apple TV.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Basically in which you said that it used to be easier to recommend this

00:03:37 ◼   ► product than it is right now.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I wrote a piece, uh there's a an analyst who wrote this piece saying

00:03:43 ◼   ► that at at at two forty nine the Apple T V was dead.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Uh or two I mean two hundred to start, two four or whatever, and

00:03:51 ◼   ► two forty nine for the high end and it was dead.

00:03:54 ◼   ► And I said, Well that's silly 'cause it's not all about market share and

00:03:57 ◼   ► Apple's looking for a very particular market share.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Anyway, I wanted to revisit that and say, like, bottom line, um, you know,

00:04:04 ◼   ► T all TVs come with an app platform now.

00:04:06 ◼   ► And so there used to be the streamer box market involved a lot of

00:04:11 ◼   ► low cost boxes or or sticks that you would attach in order to make

00:04:15 ◼   ► uh your TV be capable of playing streaming services.

00:04:19 ◼   ► I it's just not true anymore.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Everything comes with one.

00:04:22 ◼   ► So now the market is people who care enough

00:04:25 ◼   ► about streaming to get something better than the crappy one that comes with their

00:04:29 ◼   ► TV.

00:04:29 ◼   ► And I think that's a much smaller market.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I think most people just don't care.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I I the sad truth is, most people just don't care about quality.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Um, they just take what they're given and I mean, am I do I

00:04:43 ◼   ► sound bitter?

00:04:43 ◼   ► Well, I sound like a Mac user from the nineties.

00:04:47 ◼   ► I learned my lesson very early on with the arrival of Windows ninety five,

00:04:52 ◼   ► especially in the rise of the dominance of Windows Windows PCs, that most people

00:04:56 ◼   ► just take what they're given and don't care.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And uh and then s some people care.

00:05:02 ◼   ► And that's a smaller market.

00:05:04 ◼   ► So that's the market for streamer boxes now, I would argue, is essentially it's

00:05:08 ◼   ► people who actually care and it's much smaller.

00:05:10 ◼   ► And I think Apple can play in that market.

00:05:12 ◼   ► The problem is they have one product and it's two ninety nine.

00:05:18 ◼   ► And like I can't even conceive of me recommending to someone I know who

00:05:23 ◼   ► is like, uh, I don't really like my, you know, the box is really

00:05:26 ◼   ► dumb or whatever, the the TV's really dumb.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And I'll like, oh, you should get an Apple TV.

00:05:31 ◼   ► It's three hundred dollars.

00:05:32 ◼   ► And like and the other thing in the piece is is basically me saying

00:05:36 ◼   ► it feels to me like there's a missing piece here.

00:05:39 ◼   ► That either for expediency reasons, Apple wasn't gip two SKUs of this thing because

00:05:44 ◼   ► they maybe don't even have the parts for it.

00:05:46 ◼   ► And that in the long run, in six months time, they may make a

00:05:50 ◼   ► decontented version of this available that doesn't have Ethernet and doesn't have the microphones

00:05:56 ◼   ► and is like a much simplified version of this that's cheaper.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Or they've got another product in the works that's a lightweight Apple TV product

00:06:05 ◼   ► that will fill that slot because I I like there being that slot.

00:06:09 ◼   ► I saw there's some commentary over the last week that was like, oh this

00:06:12 ◼   ► is better.

00:06:13 ◼   ► It's cleaner.

00:06:13 ◼   ► There's just one product.

00:06:14 ◼   ► It's like, are you kidding me?

00:06:16 ◼   ► No.

00:06:17 ◼   ► No.

00:06:18 ◼   ► No.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Cleaner doesn't get you anything.

00:06:20 ◼   ► There is no business benefit to it's cleaner.

00:06:24 ◼   ► What the business benefit is you've got some people who really want to spend

00:06:28 ◼   ► extra money and will spend extra money on Ethernet and far field microphones and

00:06:32 ◼   ► stuff like that and storage on device storage for a streamer box, which doesn't

00:06:36 ◼   ► make sense.

00:06:37 ◼   ► But okay, if you want to be that person, go ahead.

00:06:40 ◼   ► But what really makes sense is a lower price that people might actually want

00:06:45 ◼   ► to pay to buy your product and get in your ecosystem or get further

00:06:49 ◼   ► into your ecosystem in Apple's case.

00:06:51 ◼   ► So I feel like there has to be something down there.

00:06:53 ◼   ► I I think this is one of those cases, or at least I want

00:06:56 ◼   ► to believe that this is one of those cases where the stuff didn't line

00:07:00 ◼   ► up.

00:07:00 ◼   ► The the stuff doesn't line up sometimes.

00:07:02 ◼   ► And we all look at it and go, Wow, that's you've got three Apple

00:07:05 ◼   ► pencils for sale.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Why is that?

00:07:06 ◼   ► And the answer is we know, you know, Apple's like, we know we're going

00:07:09 ◼   ► to a place where it'll make more sense, but we're not there yet.

00:07:12 ◼   ► And I that I I would like to believe that some version of that

00:07:16 ◼   ► is going on here.

00:07:17 ◼   ► That that they don't they don't feel fine that they're only Apple TV is

00:07:21 ◼   ► two ninety nine.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And of course, I I can't believe I have to do this, but in

00:07:25 ◼   ► some of the commentary I've seen the last few weeks about Apple stuff, I

00:07:28 ◼   ► feel like I need to remind people like Apple's never gonna tell you things

00:07:33 ◼   ► it isn't.

00:07:34 ◼   ► It's never gonna tell you.

00:07:36 ◼   ► So Apple's just saying that the Apple TV 4K is great at $2.99 and

00:07:41 ◼   ► isn't it wonderful?

00:07:42 ◼   ► And not talking about the fact that they don't have a cheaper product is

00:07:46 ◼   ► not evidence of anything.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Because until the day they have a cheaper product, they're never gonna say anything

00:07:52 ◼   ► about it.

00:07:53 ◼   ► But I would like to believe that they know that this is not ideal,

00:07:57 ◼   ► but this is where they ended up.

00:07:59 ◼   ► And and I will to their credit, I will say, if I were launching

00:08:04 ◼   ► a brand new Apple TV, I wouldn't with a cut down version that didn't

00:08:07 ◼   ► have an Ethernet port.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Because I mean those all those stories would happen.

00:08:10 ◼   ► It's like, oh, Apple got rid of Ethernet on the Apple TV.

00:08:13 ◼   ► It's never gonna so you gotta launch with a full featured product.

00:08:17 ◼   ► And if you don't have the capability to launch a cheaper product at the

00:08:21 ◼   ► same time, this is what you get.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So I mean, maybe it's maybe it's not true.

00:08:25 ◼   ► Maybe Apple's like, eh, who cares?

00:08:27 ◼   ► $2.99.

00:08:27 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:08:28 ◼   ► But I would like, based on their track record in this product category, I

00:08:32 ◼   ► would like to believe that they'd prefer there be a cheaper product.

00:08:35 ◼   ► There just isn't one.

00:08:37 ◼   ► And that's just how it is.

00:08:39 ◼   ► And you know, maybe it that will change at some point here in the

00:08:42 ◼   ► fruit in the future.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I hope so.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Friend of the show, Glenn Fleischmann put together a chart that shows the launch

00:08:49 ◼   ► pricing of every Apple TV unit.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Um it it's just like it's just a funny thing to look at, but

00:08:55 ◼   ► it reminded me that there was a time in which Apple reduced the price

00:08:59 ◼   ► on the Apple TV from ninety-nine dollars to sixty-nine dollars.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:09:06 ◼   ► The first

00:09:08 ◼   ► Apple TV, which is the Mac based one, was very expensive.

00:09:12 ◼   ► That's the most expensive one.

00:09:13 ◼   ► But this is the second most in modern regular dollars.

00:09:16 ◼   ► This is the second most expensive Apple TV model.

00:09:19 ◼   ► And we're coming off of the second cheapest model by modern dollars Apple T

00:09:24 ◼   ► V model six months ago.

00:09:26 ◼   ► So that's that's why we all feel this way.

00:09:29 ◼   ► But it is interesting to see how I thanks I thank Glenn for making

00:09:32 ◼   ► the charts.

00:09:33 ◼   ► It's good.

00:09:34 ◼   ► Good to see.

00:09:34 ◼   ► It's funny.

00:09:35 ◼   ► It's it's a funny chart to see and also the inflation stuff is always

00:09:38 ◼   ► funny that that original Apple T V uh would be four hundred and ninety

00:09:42 ◼   ► one dollars uh in today's money.

00:09:44 ◼   ► So that was a very expensive product.

00:09:46 ◼   ► It was.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I mean it made it worked it was a Mac, essentially.

00:09:49 ◼   ► You could you could run macOS.

00:09:51 ◼   ► I mean it did kind of run macOS, but people could make it run

00:09:53 ◼   ► mac OS.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Like and it was super hot and like I mean, it was the best

00:09:58 ◼   ► they could do at the time, but they flipped over to the what we

00:10:01 ◼   ► think of now as the Apple TV pretty quickly after that.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Yep.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Uh Amar wrote in and said, One key difference between the previous Apple TV

00:10:08 ◼   ► and the new one, buried in the spec sheet, is support for Dolby Vision

00:10:11 ◼   ► eight point one.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Previous Apple TVs only supported profile five for Dolby Vision.

00:10:16 ◼   ► DV eight point one is huge for the home theater community who keep digital

00:10:20 ◼   ► remixes of their Blu-ray discs since Blu-ray discs only support D V eight.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Um

00:10:27 ◼   ► Those people don't Those people don't mind spending two ninety nine.

00:10:29 ◼   ► No, I that's why I thought I'd include this.

00:10:31 ◼   ► It's like the people who care least about spending two hundred and ninety-nine dollars

00:10:35 ◼   ► are the ones that are getting a feature that they want.

00:10:37 ◼   ► So good luck.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Good and good work for everyone.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Yep.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Uh with the experience now confirmed for next week, uh I saw this this

00:10:46 ◼   ► piece on Mac rumors.

00:10:48 ◼   ► Um obviously that was r related to the fact that we were expecting there

00:10:53 ◼   ► to be an event of some kind next week.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Uh the expectation now is that there will be product releases.

00:11:00 ◼   ► I think this is also coming from this is coming from Mark German actually.

00:11:02 ◼   ► Uh but I saw Mac Rumors.

00:11:04 ◼   ► This there will be product releases every Friday for the next four Fridays.

00:11:09 ◼   ► So the duo on the twenty third the homepob mini two on the thirtieth,

00:11:13 ◼   ► the expected MacBook Pro and I maybe iPad mini on the sixth of November,

00:11:17 ◼   ► and then the HomeView and Apple T V on the thirteenth of November.

00:11:21 ◼   ► This is the busiest season.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Like I was I was thinking about this.

00:11:25 ◼   ► We're always in this is busy season, or at least September is.

00:11:28 ◼   ► And and I think back to the last time that it felt like this,

00:11:33 ◼   ► which was maybe twenty twenty, right when they split everything up.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Rolling thunder.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:37 ◼   ► But it was the same amount of stuff as normal, but they just split

00:11:40 ◼   ► it up amongst three events.

00:11:41 ◼   ► This is three to four events worth of stuff.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Like it's actually very different.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Um and and it is it's very exciting because the products are very cool,

00:11:51 ◼   ► right?

00:11:51 ◼   ► Like w you know, they're getting the duo and then going into a Touch

00:11:54 ◼   ► Free MacBook Pro a couple of weeks later, a brand new product category with

00:11:58 ◼   ► a home view.

00:11:59 ◼   ► But man is it overwhelming right now.

00:12:01 ◼   ► It's a lot.

00:12:02 ◼   ► There's a lot going on.

00:12:03 ◼   ► This is remember, this is the you know, Tim Cook John Turnus transition.

00:12:07 ◼   ► We want John Turnus to start off with a bang with a lot of

00:12:09 ◼   ► big product rollouts.

00:12:10 ◼   ► This is it.

00:12:11 ◼   ► We're in it.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Yep.

00:12:12 ◼   ► We may talk about this later on in Osc Upgrade a little bit more.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Actually, no, I moved the question to right here because

00:12:20 ◼   ► Chase said this was originally

00:12:23 ◼   ► very professional.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Under the short lived John Turner's era, we have seen several products be announced

00:12:28 ◼   ► with long lead times to order, such as the iPhone Duo, the Homeview and

00:12:31 ◼   ► the New Apple TV.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Do you think this is something that will continue Eternus, or is this just

00:12:35 ◼   ► an outlier during this transition time?

00:12:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:39 ◼   ► I think they wanted the Rolling Thunder rollout.

00:12:41 ◼   ► I think they wanted to announce everything in advance of Christmas, even if they

00:12:44 ◼   ► can't ship it right away because they wanna get everybody's attention.

00:12:47 ◼   ► I think Apple is comfortable doing this, especially if it's a product category where

00:12:51 ◼   ► they're not gonna like it's not gonna be an extended wait and um and

00:12:56 ◼   ► they can they're not like cannibalizing other product sales.

00:12:59 ◼   ► I think it's I think it's always been a tool um in their in

00:13:03 ◼   ► their in their toolbox.

00:13:04 ◼   ► But they're um yeah, I think they're not afraid to do it, is what

00:13:09 ◼   ► I would say.

00:13:09 ◼   ► I feel like th there's there's lots of um conversation around this point right

00:13:14 ◼   ► now where like, you know, some people are like, Look what look John Turners,

00:13:18 ◼   ► look how amazing it is, he's done all this stuff and then people are

00:13:20 ◼   ► like, No, well actually these things have been developed for years and it was

00:13:24 ◼   ► all happening under Tim Cook, and then you see, well, actually, John Turnus was

00:13:27 ◼   ► the head of hardware.

00:13:29 ◼   ► My feeling on it is Apple lined everything up the way that they wanted

00:13:33 ◼   ► it to appear.

00:13:35 ◼   ► They want it to appear like John Turnus is doing this.

00:13:40 ◼   ► And so essentially, we'll just take it as that, right?

00:13:43 ◼   ► That like for whatever reason they wanted it to be that as soon as

00:13:46 ◼   ► he took over, the products would just not stop coming for between September and

00:13:51 ◼   ► the end of the year.

00:13:52 ◼   ► What does that mean for the future?

00:13:53 ◼   ► I don't know, but I feel like this is what they are trying to

00:13:57 ◼   ► get across.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Like I I haven't even read it yet 'cause there's so much other stuff

00:14:01 ◼   ► to talk about.

00:14:01 ◼   ► But he was on that time cover, right?

00:14:03 ◼   ► Is like the invention of the year, the iPhone Duo.

00:14:06 ◼   ► Like they want to present this, the idea that John Turnus is is Mr.

00:14:11 ◼   ► Product.

00:14:12 ◼   ► And like we're just gonna keep on getting them.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Like I that I think they're trying to signal something.

00:14:17 ◼   ► I don't know what it means.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Going forward.

00:14:20 ◼   ► There's no way to know yet.

00:14:22 ◼   ► Yeah, and and this is like it's CEO transition, it's um weird time in

00:14:27 ◼   ► terms of availability of chips and stuff, right?

00:14:30 ◼   ► That factors into some of these products are particularly ambitious.

00:14:34 ◼   ► That may continue, but it may be I mean this this was all lined

00:14:37 ◼   ► up, I think, as part of the CEO transition and kind of like giving

00:14:40 ◼   ► him a runway.

00:14:41 ◼   ► But I don't think there's any hard and fast rules here.

00:14:43 ◼   ► I think Apple's uh happy to announce things.

00:14:46 ◼   ► I think Apple would prefer to announce something and have it shipped the following

00:14:48 ◼   ► Friday, right?

00:14:49 ◼   ► Like sure.

00:14:51 ◼   ► But um I think they're not afraid to to change it up if they

00:14:54 ◼   ► need to.

00:14:56 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you in part by Planet Money.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Every big economic story begins with a question.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Questions like, Why did prices go up?

00:15:05 ◼   ► Or what do robot chefs mean for the restaurant industry?

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00:15:22 ◼   ► So on Thursday of last week, Meta announced a new open source AI model

00:15:28 ◼   ► called News.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Spark Open.

00:15:31 ◼   ► So it's an open source model.

00:15:34 ◼   ► They said that they worked closely with Apple on this to make sure it

00:15:38 ◼   ► could run really well on the latest Mac Studio with MLX support.

00:15:42 ◼   ► MLX is App's Apple's open source machine learning framework that they've built.

00:15:47 ◼   ► It's like a way for open source models to interface with the computer and

00:15:50 ◼   ► run best on metal and all the other stuff that they make.

00:15:54 ◼   ► John Voorhees at Mac Stories has more information on this.

00:15:57 ◼   ► Like basically it's all very high performing, and some of the testing that was

00:16:02 ◼   ► published was done on the five twelve gigabyte RAM model that has not shipped

00:16:06 ◼   ► but was supposed to ship in October and October's nearly done.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Maybe they're gonna I don't know, part of this pro event, they might have

00:16:15 ◼   ► them there, right?

00:16:16 ◼   ► Like and just kind of like, hey, look at this.

00:16:18 ◼   ► There's much RAM in this bad boy.

00:16:20 ◼   ► The reason I'm mentioning all of this

00:16:23 ◼   ► Is the thing that is understated in what I've said so far.

00:16:26 ◼   ► But when this was announced, Mark Zuckerberg tweeted, Muse Spark Open waits releasing today,

00:16:32 ◼   ► runs great on new Mac Studios, thanks to work with at John Turnus and

00:16:36 ◼   ► Apple.

00:16:37 ◼   ► To which Turnus replied, Congrats to the team.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Amazing to run a model of Muse Spark Open's caliber and scale this efficiently

00:16:46 ◼   ► right from your desk.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Mac Studio keeps pushing the boundaries of on device AI.

00:16:52 ◼   ► And that is true.

00:16:54 ◼   ► If you have a glass of water next to you and you're in hell,

00:16:57 ◼   ► it's frozen over because the CEO of Meta and the CEO of Apple, they're

00:17:04 ◼   ► having hugs on social media.

00:17:06 ◼   ► This is all very strange.

00:17:08 ◼   ► Do you think it's strange?

00:17:10 ◼   ► Like what is your take on all of this?

00:17:12 ◼   ► Um

00:17:13 ◼   ► Well, I think

00:17:16 ◼   ► it's okay.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Something we said about changing to c CEOs is it It's always a good

00:17:22 ◼   ► time for a reset when you change CEOs.

00:17:25 ◼   ► And I think this is a real strange bedfellows kind of thing, but I

00:17:29 ◼   ► think this is an example where Apple finds incredible strategic value in the fact

00:17:34 ◼   ► that look, Apple doesn't have a lot of bright lights in terms of AI

00:17:38 ◼   ► right now.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:39 ◼   ► A lot of things they can point to and like we're killing it on

00:17:42 ◼   ► AI.

00:17:42 ◼   ► And like it or not, AI is one of the real uh hot issues

00:17:48 ◼   ► of the day and a lot of people feel it's the most important issue

00:17:51 ◼   ► in tech, and that Apple risks seeming much less relevant if they seem like

00:17:57 ◼   ► they are a loser when it comes to AI.

00:18:00 ◼   ► And the place where Apple is a winner is Apple Silicon kills it for

00:18:05 ◼   ► local AI.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Kills it.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And so

00:18:10 ◼   ► this announcement allows Apple to show off that those Mac Studios especially

00:18:17 ◼   ► are amazing for I mean the way the the key phrase in this whole

00:18:21 ◼   ► thing was frontier model level AI on a m on a Mac Studio uh

00:18:28 ◼   ► uh array.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Yep.

00:18:30 ◼   ► That you can't buy yet or that part of and the cost of fortune.

00:18:33 ◼   ► But that doesn't matter, right?

00:18:35 ◼   ► Like it doesn't matter for the people who really care about it necessarily.

00:18:38 ◼   ► So strategically it's incredibly important.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And this is somebody who is essentially a partner because they've got an open

00:18:45 ◼   ► weights model.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And Apple has been, I mean, honestly, I've been to multiple.

00:18:49 ◼   ► You've seen a demo of this.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Apple's really proud of that local ML stuff, but they're also using, I mean,

00:18:55 ◼   ► they're models that Federico is familiar with, right?

00:18:58 ◼   ► Mm-hmm But they're not models that like

00:19:01 ◼   ► the masses are familiar with.

00:19:03 ◼   ► They're not the first time I'd heard the phrase Quen was was was at

00:19:07 ◼   ► WWE CON It's like, oh it it it's running on Quen Quinn and and

00:19:11 ◼   ► it does and it's very impressive.

00:19:12 ◼   ► But like here comes Meta and they've got an open weights model that will

00:19:17 ◼   ► also run and that Apple has worked with them because again, it benefits Apple

00:19:21 ◼   ► to show that off and it benefits Apple to say, look, many models including

00:19:25 ◼   ► this really good, pretty cutting edge model, will run locally and that's a place

00:19:30 ◼   ► where we excel.

00:19:31 ◼   ► That's the m I mean, that's it.

00:19:32 ◼   ► That's the whole story.

00:19:33 ◼   ► And I don't think there's anybody at Apple.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I mean, and for people who are like, Yeah, but it's it's it's Mark

00:19:38 ◼   ► Zuckerberg.

00:19:39 ◼   ► How you know, how could they?

00:19:41 ◼   ► I'm like, How could they?

00:19:42 ◼   ► I think in the last couple of years we've seen a lot of Apple

00:19:44 ◼   ► executives demonstrate how could they is not a thing.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Um and I'll and I'll point out that this all got posted on X,

00:19:52 ◼   ► right?

00:19:52 ◼   ► Like, how could they?

00:19:53 ◼   ► It's just this is how they this is they.

00:19:56 ◼   ► This is for better, for worse, whatever your feelings are.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Um, working with working with Mark Zuckerberg, posting on X, going to the White

00:20:03 ◼   ► House, these are things that Apple donating lots of money to the ballroom project.

00:20:08 ◼   ► That's another thing that came out in the last week.

00:20:10 ◼   ► These are things that Apple's gonna do.

00:20:12 ◼   ► You can judge them.

00:20:13 ◼   ► I would say that if you judge it as a big corporation that's trying

00:20:16 ◼   ► to make strategic moves, maybe it's a little more understandable in that context.

00:20:20 ◼   ► And that goes for making that that goes for doing a joint announcement with

00:20:24 ◼   ► Mark Zuckerberg.

00:20:25 ◼   ► It's uh it it is a place where they feel this is their pl

00:20:29 ◼   ► I was gonna say they feel weakness.

00:20:30 ◼   ► It's actually the specific place where they don't weakness, and so they're gonna push

00:20:34 ◼   ► it there.

00:20:35 ◼   ► Yeah, and think you know, you you referenced all the ways in which it

00:20:38 ◼   ► benefits Apple.

00:20:39 ◼   ► There the ways in which it benefits Meta to work with Apple is they

00:20:42 ◼   ► have to have hardware they can show the power of this model on, right?

00:20:46 ◼   ► And Apple provides them with that hardware.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Right.

00:20:49 ◼   ► So it's like you can see how they get to this point where it

00:20:52 ◼   ► seems very obvious for the two of them to w or want to work

00:20:57 ◼   ► together on it, but it is just so fascinating to see the CEOs of

00:21:02 ◼   ► these two companies praising each each other.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Like it's just such a strange thing.

00:21:09 ◼   ► I mean you mentioned it's all happening on X, not threads, which is the

00:21:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:14 ◼   ► So there's two reasons for this, right?

00:21:15 ◼   ► One, John Turnus isn't on threads, which I'm still surprised about, because why not

00:21:21 ◼   ► just do it?

00:21:22 ◼   ► Um, but also Mark Zuckerberg puts it on X and I had read about

00:21:27 ◼   ► this that like he has been asked

00:21:30 ◼   ► why are you tweeting, right?

00:21:32 ◼   ► That you have your own social network and he says, Oh, because it I

00:21:36 ◼   ► love threads is amazing, but the AI conversation is on X.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Like even he says that.

00:21:42 ◼   ► So if you're p if you're trying to reach that community, that's where you're

00:21:46 ◼   ► going.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Like because that's where that community has decided that it wants to be but

00:21:51 ◼   ► it's it's just a fascinating exchange to see and I and I wonder is

00:21:57 ◼   ► this

00:21:59 ◼   ► the beginning of a thawing a little bit between because these two companies hate

00:22:06 ◼   ► each other, like have hated each other and are constantly trying to undermine the

00:22:12 ◼   ► other.

00:22:12 ◼   ► I would almost say think of this as

00:22:16 ◼   ► These are huge companies, right?

00:22:18 ◼   ► This is Apple hardware and meta AI making a deal that makes sense.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Yep.

00:22:26 ◼   ► And I think, I mean, this is the this is the lesson here.

00:22:29 ◼   ► I and the reason I mention all those other things that Apple executives done

00:22:32 ◼   ► that that that some people might not be happy with

00:22:36 ◼   ► is a lot of corporate decisions are like, well, yeah, but here it benefits

00:22:41 ◼   ► both of us to do this.

00:22:42 ◼   ► So why wouldn't?

00:22:43 ◼   ► And and you could argue that sometimes Steve Jobs, like Steve Jobs had made

00:22:48 ◼   ► it personal in ways that maybe he shouldn't have.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:52 ◼   ► But he made it personal.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Um and I think a lot of times in corporate world, they don't do

00:22:57 ◼   ► that.

00:22:58 ◼   ► They're like, yeah, but it benefits both of us here.

00:23:00 ◼   ► This makes sense.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't disagree on other points, but here

00:23:07 ◼   ► it makes sense for them to work together.

00:23:09 ◼   ► And maybe, yes, maybe it is a reset of a way.

00:23:11 ◼   ► I mean, look, Mark Zuckerberg is resetting what meta means all the time, right?

00:23:16 ◼   ► Like w and what their emphasis is.

00:23:18 ◼   ► And from Mark Zuckerberg's perspective, be like, oh, Apple, they are bad because they

00:23:22 ◼   ► don't like us because of X and Y.

00:23:24 ◼   ► But like he's off to Z or l letters beyond Z in s his

00:23:27 ◼   ► own made up alphabet.

00:23:29 ◼   ► And then like that's just you know, he's gonna do what is right for

00:23:33 ◼   ► him and that's that's how that works.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Yep.

00:23:35 ◼   ► The other thing I wanted to mention is it's just how like obviously this

00:23:38 ◼   ► is a you know, very all approved messaging, right?

00:23:43 ◼   ► Like everyone's approving each other's messaging.

00:23:45 ◼   ► They're w la launching their coordinate statements.

00:23:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:48 ◼   ► Uh and I just love I just love the way that the everything's written

00:23:53 ◼   ► here because it just no human would speak this way, right?

00:23:57 ◼   ► Like Muse Spark Open like John Turner's Amazing to run a model of Muse

00:24:02 ◼   ► Spark Open's caliber.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Like you just wouldn't say it that way.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Like you just wouldn't say it, right?

00:24:09 ◼   ► But it's like everyone has to agree that the product names are in both

00:24:14 ◼   ► messages, right?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Everyone has to say the approved product names and it it's just very funny.

00:24:20 ◼   ► I just find it very funny.

00:24:21 ◼   ► That's right.

00:24:22 ◼   ► But yeah, who knows what this means for the future, but these it's I

00:24:27 ◼   ► d like you know, talking about what w what is John Turners' Apple, right?

00:24:31 ◼   ► We're talking about it from hardware.

00:24:32 ◼   ► It's like is this part of it too?

00:24:33 ◼   ► Is is this relationship like there have been many, including Ben Thompson, who've argued

00:24:37 ◼   ► for years that these two companies would be better off if they just weren't

00:24:42 ◼   ► work together?

00:24:43 ◼   ► Like their their incentives align more than they don't um is this the beginning

00:24:48 ◼   ► of something like that or is this just a one and done?

00:24:51 ◼   ► Who could tell?

00:24:52 ◼   ► Or is it in this particular area there they they actually make sense as

00:24:55 ◼   ► partners and in other areas perhaps they don't?

00:24:57 ◼   ► Um And yeah, I mean meta the m the the more meta focuses on

00:25:02 ◼   ► things that Apple doesn't feel are antithetical to Apple's business, the more positive Apple

00:25:06 ◼   ► is gonna feel about it too.

00:25:07 ◼   ► So it's not necessarily just that this is an area.

00:25:09 ◼   ► It may be that meta's leaning in a direction that's more favorable to Apple

00:25:12 ◼   ► and so Apple is more willing to to work with them in that area.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Which I think that's I I will say get ready for something, 'cause next

00:25:20 ◼   ► fall probably, whenever the M or maybe it's maybe it's following spring.

00:25:26 ◼   ► But we we Mark German says that the M seven chips are even greater

00:25:34 ◼   ► in terms of AI performance.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Like this isn't going away.

00:25:39 ◼   ► Apple

00:25:40 ◼   ► really is gonna keep pushing hard on local AI performance for obvious reasons.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Because Apple sells hardware.

00:25:49 ◼   ► Apple sells hardware.

00:25:50 ◼   ► And if Apple's hardware is really good, and if the world ultimately ultimately decides

00:25:56 ◼   ► that because right now almost all the AI you do is in the cloud,

00:26:00 ◼   ► right?

00:26:00 ◼   ► And that's why they're building data centers.

00:26:02 ◼   ► But I have seen in my career many times the shift goes from everything's

00:26:09 ◼   ► in the cloud to everything's on the client and back to everything's in the

00:26:12 ◼   ► cloud and back to everything's in the client.

00:26:15 ◼   ► And you can believe that this time is different, and maybe it is.

00:26:19 ◼   ► I'm not saying it's not, but what I'm saying is, historically,

00:26:24 ◼   ► you move things into the cloud because it's too hard not to.

00:26:28 ◼   ► And then the clients catch up.

00:26:30 ◼   ► And then people are like, oh, but I can do this locally.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And there's being local, including privacy.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Including convenience and um including cost to a certain degree.

00:26:40 ◼   ► And Apple, if we're in a data center future, Apple will deal with it.

00:26:44 ◼   ► They've got their deal with Google, they've got their own data centers.

00:26:47 ◼   ► They're scaling presumably trying desperately to scale Siri AI um because it's kind of

00:26:52 ◼   ► slow because they're I think they're overwhelmed with with uh user requests.

00:26:57 ◼   ► But it m it greatly benefits Apple if all your AI is happening on

00:27:02 ◼   ► your Apple device that you bought Apple from Apple that you spent money on

00:27:05 ◼   ► from Apple.

00:27:06 ◼   ► That that's so they're gonna they're gonna keep pushing this.

00:27:09 ◼   ► This is gonna be a huge narrative for Apple

00:27:12 ◼   ► for the next, you know, uh who knows how long, but for the next

00:27:16 ◼   ► while.

00:27:16 ◼   ► And it's gonna pick up speed with M seven, without a doubt.

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00:29:11 ◼   ► Let's talk about the home view again.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Uh because there's been a lot of discussion, a lot of thoughts being shared

00:29:18 ◼   ► about the home view uh since we spoke about it last week.

00:29:21 ◼   ► It feels like way longer than a week um since I know uh since

00:29:25 ◼   ► we spoke about that.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Our old friend the home view.

00:29:28 ◼   ► When hilariously it's been less than a week.

00:29:31 ◼   ► To be fair, we've been talking about the home view for like three years.

00:29:34 ◼   ► That's true.

00:29:35 ◼   ► That is true.

00:29:35 ◼   ► On rumor roundup for like three years.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Mark German said he he first reported about the product in twenty twenty three

00:29:42 ◼   ► and he first reported in detail on the product in twenty twenty four.

00:29:45 ◼   ► But um yeah, it's been a while.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It's it's been a while.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Uh I wanna start by uh talking about and reading a couple of quotes

00:29:53 ◼   ► from Gentui's article, The Verge.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Uh Gentui

00:29:56 ◼   ► the person on smart home, right?

00:29:58 ◼   ► Like if you want to know about w remember when we did a lot

00:30:01 ◼   ► of stuff about matter, that all came from Jen's work.

00:30:03 ◼   ► Um that putting all that information together.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Uh Jen wrote an article praising the simplicity of the home view.

00:30:10 ◼   ► So this is how uh it begins.

00:30:12 ◼   ► I'm just gonna come out I'm just gonna come right out and say it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► I love the approach Apple has taken with the home view.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I think it's the shared, always available household interface that my family might finally

00:30:22 ◼   ► use.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Is Apple's first smart display my dream smart home dashboard?

00:30:26 ◼   ► No.

00:30:27 ◼   ► But it's The right product for the Apple home for at this moment?

00:30:30 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:30:31 ◼   ► So then, you know, Jen goes through a bunch of scenarios where a device

00:30:35 ◼   ► like this she sees making sense.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Like having it in a fixed place means you can always do things in

00:30:40 ◼   ► an expected way.

00:30:41 ◼   ► She says like, you know, sometimes I need to call uh my daughter and

00:30:44 ◼   ► she's at home and her phone's dead.

00:30:46 ◼   ► Um this will be a rel this is always plugged in, so you can

00:30:50 ◼   ► make that call always come through.

00:30:52 ◼   ► Um and then I found this really interesting.

00:30:54 ◼   ► She was saying about having access to to like answers to questions and answers

00:30:59 ◼   ► to personal information based questions that are close to a communal place like a

00:31:03 ◼   ► dinner table where you're otherwise discouraging phone use.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Like that that could be super useful.

00:31:09 ◼   ► And I I thought that was really interesting um as as a thing.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Uh so yeah Tui believes that the simplicity of home view could allow for

00:31:16 ◼   ► her to be able to also go all in on home assistant in the

00:31:20 ◼   ► background because trying to get everybody to use that would be a nightmare.

00:31:25 ◼   ► But this way, she could just t she can do all the stuff and

00:31:28 ◼   ► it just ties into the home app.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I mean you've heard Stephen Hackett talk about this.

00:31:31 ◼   ► I mean the the home assistant and and Casey too, right?

00:31:34 ◼   ► Like the home assistant is incredibly complicated.

00:31:37 ◼   ► I've been using it more.

00:31:38 ◼   ► The I made my pick on Mac Break Weekly last week, the Home Assistant

00:31:41 ◼   ► Green, which I actually bought like two years ago, which is like a little

00:31:44 ◼   ► box that runs Home Assistant.

00:31:45 ◼   ► It's like a it's a home assistant computer that you just plug in.

00:31:49 ◼   ► And um that wasn't enough for me to use Home Assistant, but um using

00:31:54 ◼   ► an LLM that tells me what to do in Home Assistant, that kind of

00:31:57 ◼   ► cracked the case because it's so complicated.

00:32:00 ◼   ► But if I have like computer help with a computer, it's it's usable.

00:32:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:04 ◼   ► And the beauty of Home Assistant

00:32:06 ◼   ► in the end is you can export those to home app, Apple Home, and

00:32:12 ◼   ► it nobody needs to know that it's complicated behind the scenes.

00:32:16 ◼   ► You just control things in the home app.

00:32:18 ◼   ► That's what Steven does in his house.

00:32:20 ◼   ► And what Jen Tui is saying here is

00:32:26 ◼   ► it lets you put a nice interface up for your h your family, no

00:32:30 ◼   ► matter what I look um this is a great piece because it look, okay,

00:32:37 ◼   ► I have complicated feelings about the home view.

00:32:39 ◼   ► First off, I mean you and I have been talking about it for a

00:32:42 ◼   ► while and have been very excited about this idea of having this kind of

00:32:45 ◼   ► a product here.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Um, first off, I think a lot of people are getting totally sidetracked by

00:32:51 ◼   ► that ad.

00:32:52 ◼   ► It's unbelievable the space that it is occupying in people's brains.

00:32:55 ◼   ► It's an off, I think it's a very effective ad, but I don't think

00:32:59 ◼   ► it for the reasons that people are judging the ad.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I think it's effective because they've created a narrative structure in which they can

00:33:05 ◼   ► show every feature of the home view.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Everybody else is like, well, that would never happen.

00:33:10 ◼   ► That's very unrealistic.

00:33:11 ◼   ► And it's like, folks, of course it is.

00:33:13 ◼   ► It's an ad.

00:33:14 ◼   ► It's an ad.

00:33:15 ◼   ► It's not meant it's not meant to p betray a slice of life of

00:33:19 ◼   ► these people's house, the family that drills a hole for the power line in

00:33:23 ◼   ► the middle of their kitchen island.

00:33:24 ◼   ► No, it's a fantasy.

00:33:26 ◼   ► It's infomercial.

00:33:27 ◼   ► But what it is designed to do is somewhat artfully show you every pack

00:33:32 ◼   ► every possible scenario of use of the home view into a single moment, which

00:33:37 ◼   ► would never happen,

00:33:39 ◼   ► but that's what they're trying to do.

00:33:41 ◼   ► And I admired the fact that they got to all of them.

00:33:43 ◼   ► I mean, yes, I chuckled because never would these things all happen.

00:33:46 ◼   ► It's very much like, you know, this knife will cut through a a can

00:33:51 ◼   ► and then a tomato kind of level of like ridiculous.

00:33:55 ◼   ► I it's a yes, the home view as Ginsu knife.

00:33:58 ◼   ► So um it it it it's not meant to be realistic.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna blow everybody's mind out.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Those people aren't actually family.

00:34:06 ◼   ► They're actors.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Shut up.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Why would you say that?

00:34:10 ◼   ► You're breaking my heart here.

00:34:11 ◼   ► It's made up.

00:34:12 ◼   ► That's not a real house.

00:34:13 ◼   ► No man.

00:34:13 ◼   ► I think they look like they knew each other.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Oh, but I was so excited about her meeting her boyfriend on the front

00:34:18 ◼   ► stoop now.

00:34:19 ◼   ► I'm disappointed.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Anyway, um, so I I just am impressed because they showed all the things.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I I think yes, i the reality of it is more of what Gen

00:34:29 ◼   ► Tui is saying, which is there are places where this fits.

00:34:33 ◼   ► That will be nice.

00:34:35 ◼   ► It it has the opportunity to make your Apple Home experience nicer.

00:34:40 ◼   ► It has it it's gonna surface your photos in a way that is nice

00:34:43 ◼   ► if you're a somebody who has Apple photos.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Uh it will have other scenarios that will be good to have.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And and yeah, personally, I find it very funny where people are like, I

00:34:55 ◼   ► don't even know why anyone would want this.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Or I'm certainly not gonna buy any of these.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Mike,

00:35:01 ◼   ► I bought

00:35:03 ◼   ► two.

00:35:04 ◼   ► Yeah, baby.

00:35:06 ◼   ► Let's go.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I bought one, but I think I might end up with another one.

00:35:11 ◼   ► I bought a stand for the kitchen because I've been trying to replace the

00:35:14 ◼   ► Google and before that Amazon box that were in there so I have a

00:35:17 ◼   ► little screen in the kitchen and I bought one to put on my wall.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Because Okay.

00:35:23 ◼   ► I hate my thermostat UI.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:27 ◼   ► I have a bunch of other home stuff.

00:35:29 ◼   ► I hate having to walk people through the thermostat UI.

00:35:33 ◼   ► And now I can put a home view right next to it and say,

00:35:37 ◼   ► don't you don't touch the thermostat.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Just use the home view to control the thermostat.

00:35:41 ◼   ► And that allows me behind the scenes to do like the thermostat.

00:35:44 ◼   ► The thermostat's actually being controlled by home assistant, if I want to, because you

00:35:49 ◼   ► need to do one of those things where like some you know, you submit

00:35:51 ◼   ► some Airbnbs and they put like a box over the light switch or whatever.

00:35:54 ◼   ► Do not touch the light switch, you just put a box over the light

00:35:57 ◼   ► switch.

00:35:57 ◼   ► I've honestly thought of moving my thermostat like behind a door or something where

00:36:02 ◼   ► it's just like don't even look at it.

00:36:03 ◼   ► It's not even for you.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Don't think about it.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Shame thermostat, you know, like it's in no way.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Yeah, just don't I mean it's bad.

00:36:10 ◼   ► It's bad.

00:36:10 ◼   ► So just forget about that.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And and let's focus on the home view.

00:36:15 ◼   ► How are you gonna do the the home installation?

00:36:17 ◼   ► Are you gonna try and do it?

00:36:18 ◼   ► You gonna get someone to do it?

00:36:19 ◼   ► Do you know?

00:36:20 ◼   ► I may try to do it or I may have our good old friend,

00:36:23 ◼   ► my electrician, Data Dave, may come in and do that one for me.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Oh my god, I forgot.

00:36:29 ◼   ► We may bring data dave back in.

00:36:30 ◼   ► I think you have to bring data in quick he works by the hour,

00:36:35 ◼   ► so I might need to have like a second little project for him to

00:36:38 ◼   ► do in addition to that for him to move in the thumb.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Just to find yeah.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I mean, maybe

00:36:45 ◼   ► but uh but yeah, I am I also look, let's be honest, it is

00:36:49 ◼   ► for the content, right?

00:36:49 ◼   ► I'm I I'm gonna be able to write about not only installing it but

00:36:52 ◼   ► having one on my wall and having one in my kitchen and all that.

00:36:55 ◼   ► But I I want it.

00:36:56 ◼   ► I mean I want it.

00:36:57 ◼   ► 'Cause I want I want a friendly this that's thing and that's what what

00:37:00 ◼   ► Jen is getting at in her story.

00:37:02 ◼   ► All this home stuff doesn't work if you have to be like, you know,

00:37:07 ◼   ► oh you've got to open your home app or you don't you're not in

00:37:10 ◼   ► my Apple home, but you're my house sitter.

00:37:12 ◼   ► And now how do you control the thermostat?

00:37:15 ◼   ► Like I need to make it dead simple that there's just a controller on

00:37:20 ◼   ► the wall that lets them control the things.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And it's gonna let me do that.

00:37:25 ◼   ► So I'm I'm excited to try it out.

00:37:27 ◼   ► I think I think it could be very cool.

00:37:29 ◼   ► And that's why I'm utterly baffled by people who are like, I just don't

00:37:31 ◼   ► see the value in this.

00:37:32 ◼   ► It's a lot of value in it.

00:37:33 ◼   ► It It does it live up to the high standards of the completely artificial

00:37:38 ◼   ► TV commercial that they did.

00:37:40 ◼   ► No, because that was ridiculous and just an infomercial.

00:37:44 ◼   ► But does it have a lot of little ecosystem uses?

00:37:47 ◼   ► I think so.

00:37:48 ◼   ► I think it does.

00:37:50 ◼   ► For some people, not for everybody.

00:37:51 ◼   ► But I I also think that it it potentially can demystify smart home stuff

00:37:56 ◼   ► for people who are thinking about smart home stuff but are really hesitant to

00:37:59 ◼   ► do it because it's fiddly.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Because let's face it, it's been too fiddly for a decade.

00:38:03 ◼   ► And and and honestly, for all of the talk in that ad about like,

00:38:07 ◼   ► oh, why wouldn't you just do that on your phone?

00:38:10 ◼   ► There's some stuff where do it on your phone is a bad answer.

00:38:14 ◼   ► Like I said, I don't want to tell my house sitter adjust the thermostat

00:38:20 ◼   ► on your phone.

00:38:21 ◼   ► I what do I add her to my Apple home?

00:38:23 ◼   ► And then she's gotta get her phone out if she wants to turn on

00:38:25 ◼   ► the heater.

00:38:26 ◼   ► Like I can't do that to her or a guest who comes to visit

00:38:29 ◼   ► or like it there are lots of contexts where it's much better to just

00:38:33 ◼   ► say, here is a panel on the wall, or here's a little guy who

00:38:36 ◼   ► lives on the counter, and it has the security camera, and it's got the

00:38:41 ◼   ► thermostat and it's got the lights.

00:38:43 ◼   ► And just handle it that way.

00:38:45 ◼   ► It feels much

00:38:47 ◼   ► again, not it's not for every scenario.

00:38:50 ◼   ► This is a a niche product because all home products are niche products essentially.

00:38:54 ◼   ► But um I think it's got lots of applications.

00:38:57 ◼   ► One of the things that I respect about The Verge is that they allow

00:39:02 ◼   ► their individual writers to have their own opinions that differ about the same products.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Of course.

00:39:08 ◼   ► So, you know, because I don't know if every website does this, but I

00:39:11 ◼   ► feel like The Verge really seems to encourage it, right?

00:39:13 ◼   ► Like I think they like their reporters to have very distinct personalities.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:17 ◼   ► And and have their and have their takes.

00:39:19 ◼   ► 'Cause that's what the Yeah, it's it's a sign of uh this is one

00:39:22 ◼   ► of those things that Neil I do as well.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Is it's a sign of a well run editorial operation, I think.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Thank you 'cause I was listening to the Verge cast on Friday and I

00:39:29 ◼   ► and I genuinely could not believe what I was hearing where they they were

00:39:32 ◼   ► talking about the home view and saying how bad and weird it was that

00:39:38 ◼   ► Apple does not have an app store for the home view.

00:39:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:39:42 ◼   ► And saying that like it makes no sense to them.

00:39:45 ◼   ► People are gonna want apps, developers will want to put them there.

00:39:48 ◼   ► It seems like a great platform for apps, all of this kind of stuff.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And to me, to us, we've spoken about this already.

00:39:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It seems so obvious why they didn't and shouldn't do it.

00:39:59 ◼   ► We don't want another app store.

00:40:01 ◼   ► No more apps.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Stop with the app stores.

00:40:03 ◼   ► No, I I I think they need look, I think they need an app

00:40:06 ◼   ► story.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And I think that the story, not store.

00:40:09 ◼   ► I I I I think that CarPlay is a nice fallback, but I think

00:40:14 ◼   ► it's not good enough.

00:40:15 ◼   ► I think the example of recipe apps is a great example of this, right?

00:40:19 ◼   ► Where it's like, um, what happens if you use paprika or m or like

00:40:23 ◼   ► I use Mela?

00:40:24 ◼   ► And the answer is nothing.

00:40:26 ◼   ► You can't do it because it doesn't work with it and it's not a

00:40:29 ◼   ► CarPlay app that does audio or video and therefore it doesn't work.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Like I think they need an app story, but maybe the app story is

00:40:39 ◼   ► projection from your phone in another way.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Or maybe, I mean, the thing I keep coming up with is

00:40:44 ◼   ► you could have a class of phone app, maybe that like an Apple Watch

00:40:50 ◼   ► app sinks to home view.

00:40:53 ◼   ► But all of this all of this is the route that I think they're

00:40:58 ◼   ► taking, which is the right one, which is don't do anything yet.

00:41:02 ◼   ► See if this thing actually takes off if people want it and developers keep

00:41:07 ◼   ► asking you, just like the iPhone and like you know, like and I'm not

00:41:11 ◼   ► saying this is the iPhone, but it was like prove there's a market for

00:41:14 ◼   ► this product before you start demanding developers make apps for it again.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And here's an idea.

00:41:20 ◼   ► How about you ship the product and have it be out there for a

00:41:22 ◼   ► while?

00:41:23 ◼   ► If you've got a developer story, why don't you tell it after the product's

00:41:26 ◼   ► out there?

00:41:27 ◼   ► Yep.

00:41:27 ◼   ► And then maybe you approach the developers of, for example, recipe apps and say,

00:41:31 ◼   ► okay, we're going to do a program where recipe apps are going to be

00:41:35 ◼   ► able to sync to the home view.

00:41:37 ◼   ► Here's how it's going.

00:41:38 ◼   ► Would you like to be a part of it?

00:41:39 ◼   ► We'll help you.

00:41:40 ◼   ► And then have them do that.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Instead of it being like, hey, here's a new thing you can't buy and

00:41:45 ◼   ► here's the complete developer story, good luck, figure it out.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Which is what they did with the iPhone Duo.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Which you could do with an iPhone maybe, but you can't do it with

00:41:51 ◼   ► a home view.

00:41:52 ◼   ► You can't do it with an iPhone.

00:41:53 ◼   ► And like th they were bringing up like, Oh, look how excited developers seem

00:41:58 ◼   ► to be for the duo right now.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Like, you know, they they wanna say, Yes, for an iPhone.

00:42:04 ◼   ► They wanna make iPhone apps for an iPhone.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Like it I don't know if they wanna make apps for the for the

00:42:10 ◼   ► home pod thing, you know it's like it's I don't I just it was

00:42:13 ◼   ► a very strange conversation to hear them have.

00:42:16 ◼   ► It's like I see the point of view, but I just could not agree

00:42:18 ◼   ► uh less.

00:42:19 ◼   ► So I have a question here from Matthew that's that's touching on what we're

00:42:21 ◼   ► talking about.

00:42:22 ◼   ► The home view for me is close to a pipe for the kitchen but

00:42:25 ◼   ► I will not replace my kitchen iPad and the home pod until I can

00:42:28 ◼   ► use my recipe app for it, which is Mela.

00:42:31 ◼   ► It's an easy buy and replaces two devices, but I don't want two screens

00:42:34 ◼   ► in the kitchen, even though the iPad is a great fit beyond b recipes.

00:42:38 ◼   ► I want to see what the story is for the home view long term.

00:42:41 ◼   ► And then talking about what I was saying about The Verge and their reporters,

00:42:45 ◼   ► they put they had an article uh go up who was it that wrote

00:42:48 ◼   ► this?

00:42:48 ◼   ► I had this here.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Uh Dominic Preston writing for The Verge.

00:42:52 ◼   ► And and you wrote you wrote about this article.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:55 ◼   ► It literally the article I let me let me set this up.

00:42:57 ◼   ► The article is you know who the real victims of the home view are?

00:43:01 ◼   ► People who write recipe blogs.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Because there's like a view where it drops all the recipe blog stuff away

00:43:06 ◼   ► and just shows you the recipe, which first off, like every recipe app does

00:43:10 ◼   ► that already, because every recipe blog is a mess full of ads and lots

00:43:14 ◼   ► of preamble and stuff.

00:43:15 ◼   ► It's all because of SEO and they're trying to make money by gaming Google

00:43:19 ◼   ► so that you'll come to their site and then they do a bunch of

00:43:22 ◼   ► ad loads and this is how they make money, which I understand, like it's

00:43:25 ◼   ► distorted by Google.

00:43:26 ◼   ► I get it.

00:43:27 ◼   ► But this article was like, won't somebody who make the annoying bad websites that

00:43:33 ◼   ► nobody wants to see?

00:43:34 ◼   ► They're the real victims here.

00:43:35 ◼   ► And I started reading it and I was like, who would say that?

00:43:40 ◼   ► And and I did the joke, you know, the social media joke, which is

00:43:43 ◼   ► like, did a recipe blogger write this article?

00:43:47 ◼   ► And the answer is yes, a recipe blogger works for the verge and does

00:43:51 ◼   ► write this article and he said, Yes, I I actually am the person hurt

00:43:53 ◼   ► by this.

00:43:54 ◼   ► And it's like he's self aware of where he's like Yes.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I'm sure this is like uh uh taint in my opinion here.

00:44:02 ◼   ► You know, like it yeah.

00:44:04 ◼   ► But it was it was just a very funny, very funny.

00:44:06 ◼   ► And it's a weekend story.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Rem remember, remember what my rule number one of any uh website that is

00:44:11 ◼   ► publishing on the weekend is if they've got staff who's there to publish on

00:44:15 ◼   ► the weekend, it's not their best.

00:44:17 ◼   ► They're a and it's not the most um focused and uh analyzed of content

00:44:21 ◼   ► because they're just trying to keep the lights on.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Uh and this was a this was a real Saturday story kinda, if you

00:44:26 ◼   ► ask me.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But um But bizarre.

00:44:28 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, I mean uh whereas the rest of us are like, yeah,

00:44:32 ◼   ► I don't want to garbage.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I just want to see the recipe.

00:44:34 ◼   ► However, I have all my favorite recipes in an app that doesn't can't get

00:44:39 ◼   ► on the home view.

00:44:40 ◼   ► And yeah, if I'm the developer of a recipe app, the first thing I'm

00:44:43 ◼   ► gonna do is say, can I just get a web app real fast?

00:44:47 ◼   ► Like, could I get something where where you could just like share, you just

00:44:50 ◼   ► like airdrop a s a URL to Safari and load my recipe app.

00:44:55 ◼   ► On a web page because HomeView has Safari.

00:44:59 ◼   ► But this is the reason that recipe stuff is the reason why I think

00:45:02 ◼   ► that HomeView needs a little more of an app story than it's got right

00:45:04 ◼   ► now.

00:45:04 ◼   ► But it's very clear that the CarPlay thing, it's like, look, this is all

00:45:10 ◼   ► we were able to do right now.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And that and and again, not necessarily even that they couldn't do more, but

00:45:16 ◼   ► they weren't willing to do more yet until the product ships.

00:45:19 ◼   ► And like you said, you get a sense of what the customer desire is

00:45:23 ◼   ► and what the developer desire is.

00:45:25 ◼   ► But I think the recipe one is a great example where they've obviously tailored

00:45:29 ◼   ► this feature for recipes, but they're leaving out the other thing, which is some

00:45:32 ◼   ► people actually have stored their recipes and what happens to those.

00:45:36 ◼   ► How do they get those on this device and I think that remains to

00:45:39 ◼   ► be seen.

00:45:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I think you made a great case.

00:45:41 ◼   ► If you make a good recipe app, you need to build some kind of

00:45:45 ◼   ► web hosting feature for Wesley.

00:45:46 ◼   ► If you can at all possible just just to load a just to load

00:45:49 ◼   ► it on home view so that people can get to their recipes on home

00:45:52 ◼   ► view because I think that I mean, maybe if you don't care, you don't

00:45:55 ◼   ► think they're gonna sell very many of them.

00:45:56 ◼   ► But I think having a web a web view of your uh recipes, even

00:45:59 ◼   ► if it's just literally a read only view of your wet recipes, it's not

00:46:02 ◼   ► a bad idea to do that if you don't have it.

00:46:05 ◼   ► We were talking about this last week and we made an expectation and we

00:46:08 ◼   ► now have details that you can run widget widgets from your iPhone on the

00:46:13 ◼   ► home view, basically like the Mac does.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:16 ◼   ► But with one weird one very weird c like constraint.

00:46:22 ◼   ► It is only the small size class of widget.

00:46:25 ◼   ► It's the only size.

00:46:28 ◼   ► And I don't get that at all.

00:46:30 ◼   ► I think there's I think the home view software is gonna is gonna change

00:46:34 ◼   ► have some updates.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:35 ◼   ► I I I I think it's got to.

00:46:36 ◼   ► I think this is a first I mean, literally I think they they did

00:46:39 ◼   ► what they needed to to ship it and they parked it and it's been

00:46:42 ◼   ► sitting there and we'll see where it goes from here.

00:46:44 ◼   ► So it's just the small one, um and it's only on the home screen

00:46:50 ◼   ► view and on their modular face.

00:46:53 ◼   ► You can have different widgets on the

00:46:55 ◼   ► good to have, but yes, strange, just a strange uh uh thing to to

00:47:01 ◼   ► to set on.

00:47:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:04 ◼   ► Again, I feel like that could evolve over time.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:47:06 ◼   ► This is a one point oh product.

00:47:08 ◼   ► As long as the hardware's been sitting, um, it's still it's a new product

00:47:12 ◼   ► and a new category for Apple and we'll see where they go with it.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:16 ◼   ► Um what's exciting is that there's potential for them to do stuff to make

00:47:18 ◼   ► this a much more interesting product just through software.

00:47:21 ◼   ► And they'll get there.

00:47:22 ◼   ► I mean th they it's it's got it's got a a powerful processor and

00:47:27 ◼   ► it's got a lot of RAM.

00:47:28 ◼   ► Like it its limitations are are limitations for I would say simplicity's sake more

00:47:32 ◼   ► than anything else.

00:47:33 ◼   ► And they're and it it's a not you know, it's a new platform, even

00:47:36 ◼   ► if if they're not branding it.

00:47:37 ◼   ► It's new OS variant that that is different and so they're kind of like

00:47:42 ◼   ► dipping their toe in the water with it.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It's it's a one point oh and they'll learn and they'll I think they'll

00:47:47 ◼   ► grow.

00:47:47 ◼   ► If if the product is to succeed, it will need to progress as well.

00:47:51 ◼   ► And if they if they've got according to Mark German, they've got another, you

00:47:54 ◼   ► know bigger, cooler version of this coming in a year, year and a half.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Then uh investing if you're gonna release that product, you really do need to

00:48:03 ◼   ► invest and make use this as an opportunity to make your software better.

00:48:06 ◼   ► So when that thing lands, it is um much more poised to impress.

00:48:11 ◼   ► This version, shipping in twenty seven or twenty eight, features your favorite robotic arm,

00:48:16 ◼   ► large display, three hundred and sixty degree movement, and a bunch of features that

00:48:21 ◼   ► we spoke about a long time ago, like using voice recognition, this is a

00:48:25 ◼   ► quote, the machine is designed to identify who's speaking and automatically turn towards that

00:48:30 ◼   ► person.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:31 ◼   ► It's and we saw a bunch of like research about moving devices and having

00:48:36 ◼   ► it feel personal and how how you could do that.

00:48:39 ◼   ► I I am encouraged by the fact that Mark German seems to have stopped

00:48:41 ◼   ► using the phrase tabletop robot and has replaced it with robotic arm, which I

00:48:46 ◼   ► think is a much more approved acceptable accurate phrasing than tabletop robot.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Put some wheels on it and it runs across your c tabletop and uh

00:48:59 ◼   ► we'll talk.

00:49:00 ◼   ► But don't do that.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Also, I don't Got a couple of listener questions about the home view too.

00:49:05 ◼   ► So here's one from an anonymous question asker.

00:49:07 ◼   ► The iPod, iTunes for Windows, iPhone, iPad, they have all offered ways into Apple's

00:49:12 ◼   ► ecosystem without requiring another Apple device first.

00:49:16 ◼   ► HomeView seems to reverse that.

00:49:18 ◼   ► Setup requires an iPhone or iPad, and its defining personalized features depend on one

00:49:23 ◼   ► being present and recently unlocked.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Is HomeView primarily about getting existing customers to spend more rather than attracting new

00:49:31 ◼   ► ones.

00:49:32 ◼   ► If so, do you think that that is a mistake on Apple's part?

00:49:36 ◼   ► Uh the iPod was Mac only when it started.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Yeah I think that's why they they they threw iTunes for Windows straight in.

00:49:42 ◼   ► But this is what I'm saying.

00:49:43 ◼   ► When it started it was not.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Um and the Apple Watch is still this way.

00:49:47 ◼   ► So what I would say is HomeView is like Apple Watch.

00:49:51 ◼   ► It is designed primarily for people in the iPhone ecosystem and the Apple home

00:49:55 ◼   ► ecosystem because it's the only place it makes sense.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And if it's a hit and people really love it, they will have a

00:50:00 ◼   ► consideration about whether they should broaden it.

00:50:02 ◼   ► But I think the the truth is that if you're in an Apple ecosystem,

00:50:08 ◼   ► is when this product makes the most sense.

00:50:10 ◼   ► So it's really selling it as an additional product to people already in the

00:50:13 ◼   ► ecosystem, which you know, the iPhone is a pretty big ecosystem.

00:50:16 ◼   ► So I think that's what they're going for here.

00:50:18 ◼   ► I would love it if over time there there's some hints of this now,

00:50:21 ◼   ► because the iPod is or sorry, the iPad is more of the story here.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Um in terms of Apple intelligence requests and stuff.

00:50:28 ◼   ► I would like it if in the end you could use this with an

00:50:32 ◼   ► Apple TV or or an iPad and not have to have a phone to

00:50:36 ◼   ► set it up because there are some people who are in the Apple ecosystem

00:50:40 ◼   ► but have an Android phone.

00:50:41 ◼   ► And that's a weird.

00:50:42 ◼   ► But you know, that would be a way you could expand a little bit.

00:50:45 ◼   ► But I think it's I think they're just being real here.

00:50:47 ◼   ► This is a uh an initial product and its appeal is all based on

00:50:52 ◼   ► interconnecting with other Apple things.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And that's no again, it's like reversing the strategy.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Like it's no different than the Apple Watch strategy.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I I feel like Apple has so many customers now.

00:51:05 ◼   ► I'm not even sure they need to focus on entry points to the ecosystem.

00:51:09 ◼   ► Like iPhone is the entry point.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:51:12 ◼   ► You have an incredible business opportunity just serving your existing customer base, right?

00:51:18 ◼   ► Like Yep.

00:51:19 ◼   ► That's totally fine, right?

00:51:21 ◼   ► And and if they continue to find more products that make the ecosystem that

00:51:27 ◼   ► you're in even better, that is a great thing on its own.

00:51:31 ◼   ► Because you're you're just keeping the billions of people you already have hyper served.

00:51:36 ◼   ► I think that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Uh and Tim asks, HomeView seems to rely on connecting to your iPhone for

00:51:44 ◼   ► functionality.

00:51:44 ◼   ► The home pod does something similar with personal requests, but reliability has been spotty

00:51:49 ◼   ► for me.

00:51:50 ◼   ► Do you think HomeView could do a better job with interdevice communication?

00:51:55 ◼   ► I think it's a new cut at it.

00:51:56 ◼   ► I think all of this stuff is going to be a little bit of

00:51:58 ◼   ► a new cut at it in terms of recognizing who it is and then

00:52:01 ◼   ► connecting back to the other device.

00:52:04 ◼   ► And they've had to do some of this work for Siri AI with like

00:52:07 ◼   ► the Apple Watch as well and even with the with the um home pods

00:52:10 ◼   ► and the Apple TV.

00:52:11 ◼   ► There's to go back to the phone for personal context.

00:52:15 ◼   ► So uh will it be better?

00:52:17 ◼   ► I don't know, but I think that's what they're trying to trying to do.

00:52:19 ◼   ► It's a new cutoff.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:21 ◼   ► It's like I know that my that Siri on my iPhone does a great

00:52:26 ◼   ► job with my personal context questions, but what happens when that question gets asked

00:52:33 ◼   ► on a completely different device that then has to communicate somehow with the div

00:52:38 ◼   ► the device that has the information on it and it and then it's all

00:52:42 ◼   ► going up to the cloud.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Like it's it's a it is a more complicated procedure, but is one that

00:52:49 ◼   ► I'm sure they built when they were building this new system.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Like it was built with this in mind.

00:52:54 ◼   ► I mean, is that this is the reason that this product hasn't come out

00:52:57 ◼   ► is because they needed this system to be made, right?

00:53:00 ◼   ► So I do think it will probably I do think it is possible that

00:53:04 ◼   ► it will be slower than if you ask the question directly on your iPhone.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Like that because there is sure some handoff and some exchange that has to

00:53:13 ◼   ► occur.

00:53:14 ◼   ► But I am confident that it will work better than say the personal context

00:53:20 ◼   ► did before.

00:53:21 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

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00:55:23 ◼   ► Jason, were you able to pre order an iPhone Duo?

00:55:28 ◼   ► Did you collect one of the incredibly rare golden tickets hidden inside of one

00:55:33 ◼   ► in every four million boxes of an Apple TV.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Did you do it, Jason?

00:55:38 ◼   ► I feel like you're setting me up here.

00:55:40 ◼   ► I feel like this is a setup.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Um I well, I mean the way you phrase it, yes, I did pre-order

00:55:48 ◼   ► an iPhone duo.

00:55:49 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:55:50 ◼   ► However, I believe I am a week out.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:55:57 ◼   ► From launch week.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:56:00 ◼   ► I am I have a no early November date.

00:56:03 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:04 ◼   ► How about you?

00:56:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Knowing the answer.

00:56:07 ◼   ► October twenty third.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I pick it up on Friday.

00:56:10 ◼   ► I I have my iPhone duo.

00:56:11 ◼   ► It's reserved for collection.

00:56:14 ◼   ► So my story I think is very different to other people's stories.

00:56:18 ◼   ► So

00:56:19 ◼   ► I had my uh my my my chosen duo order all prepared, right?

00:56:25 ◼   ► Like I'm sure all of us do that know how to pre order things.

00:56:28 ◼   ► You can go into the the Apple store app and do that get ready

00:56:31 ◼   ► thing, which I think is fantastic that they have that.

00:56:34 ◼   ► It makes this process much easier.

00:56:36 ◼   ► So I was sitting there and, you know, the the time rolls around.

00:56:39 ◼   ► I think it was like one o'clock for me or whatever and nothing.

00:56:42 ◼   ► So I force quit the app, open it.

00:56:44 ◼   ► And then a few minutes passed.

00:56:45 ◼   ► It's like the app opens up and it's like, Hey, do you want to

00:56:48 ◼   ► check out?

00:56:48 ◼   ► And it's I do want to check out.

00:56:50 ◼   ► So I went in and a I would say a comfortable pace.

00:56:55 ◼   ► I'm like, okay, I wanna go to this store and it's like, what time

00:56:57 ◼   ► do you want?

00:56:57 ◼   ► So I check my time and do all of this and check out, you

00:57:01 ◼   ► know, have to kind of gurb my loins a little bit 'cause I I

00:57:05 ◼   ► got a one terabyte version of this phone.

00:57:07 ◼   ► It's like, well, here we go.

00:57:09 ◼   ► Like I'm doing the thing.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And then I do what I always do.

00:57:13 ◼   ► So I ordered it and then I go check my unread messages to see

00:57:17 ◼   ► about my friends who are also ordering it.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Crickets, silence.

00:57:21 ◼   ► No one's saying anything.

00:57:23 ◼   ► And the reason no one's saying anything is because everybody else is having a

00:57:27 ◼   ► very hard time.

00:57:28 ◼   ► I didn't have trouble.

00:57:30 ◼   ► Here's here's here's the thing.

00:57:31 ◼   ► So I am going later this week to Arizona

00:57:35 ◼   ► to uh my my mom's got a uh medical procedure, min very minor medical

00:57:43 ◼   ► procedure, but still to the point where I'm gonna go down and take her

00:57:47 ◼   ► and and be there for a couple of days.

00:57:50 ◼   ► And then we've got a family event over the weekend that Lauren's coming down

00:57:54 ◼   ► for.

00:57:54 ◼   ► So I'm gonna be in Arizona.

00:57:56 ◼   ► And so I got to the last screen, but I I had to change

00:58:00 ◼   ► my shipping address.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:58:03 ◼   ► And in that one screen, my order slipped to November.

00:58:09 ◼   ► So I believe if I had done the normal thing and just gone next,

00:58:13 ◼   ► next, next, next, next, I would have gotten it Friday.

00:58:17 ◼   ► But I'm not gonna be here on Friday.

00:58:20 ◼   ► And the question is like, should I have done that and then changed the

00:58:23 ◼   ► shipping order, shipping address later?

00:58:25 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:58:25 ◼   ► I had lots of lots of questions running through my mind at 5 15

00:58:29 ◼   ► AM

00:58:32 ◼   ► So where is your duo going?

00:58:34 ◼   ► The one that you have ordered then?

00:58:36 ◼   ► It's coming, well, it's

00:58:39 ◼   ► I saw the date change and so I just put it back to my

00:58:41 ◼   ► default.

00:58:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:42 ◼   ► The problem is depending on when it lands in that window, I won't be

00:58:46 ◼   ► here.

00:58:47 ◼   ► So I may have to change it anyway.

00:58:49 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:50 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:58:51 ◼   ► A lot of these things come earlier than you'd expect.

00:58:53 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:58:54 ◼   ► Right?

00:58:54 ◼   ► They sometimes will pop them up a little bit.

00:58:57 ◼   ► So maybe that will happen.

00:58:58 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:59:00 ◼   ► But uh yeah, so I don't know.

00:59:02 ◼   ► It'll it'll be here when it'll be here.

00:59:04 ◼   ► It is fascinating because, you know, amongst my extended friend group of of Apple

00:59:09 ◼   ► enthusiasts and content creators, the hit rate of day one duo is very, very

00:59:15 ◼   ► slim.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Um and I do think that maybe maybe I had a little bit better

00:59:20 ◼   ► luck because I I probably didn't go for the most popular configuration because I

00:59:25 ◼   ► went for one terabyte.

00:59:26 ◼   ► Um and I did that because I wanna give this phone the chance to

00:59:30 ◼   ► be my iPhone.

00:59:31 ◼   ► And my iPhone has half a terabyte of stuff on it because at the

00:59:36 ◼   ► moment I like to have all of my photos loaded on my device and

00:59:39 ◼   ► that can fit on that.

00:59:40 ◼   ► So I that's the device configuration that I went with.

00:59:44 ◼   ► But it seems like, and I'll read from uh uh your link post here

00:59:48 ◼   ► for called fun with pre-orders, clearly Apple is struggling with duo supply, but there's

00:59:53 ◼   ► also obviously a lot of duo demand and curiosity out there.

00:59:56 ◼   ► Put them together and you get a device that's sold out into next year

01:00:00 ◼   ► already.

01:00:00 ◼   ► The duo is not going to be the best-selling iPhone of this cycle, not

01:00:04 ◼   ► even close, but I still think it will be the best selling folding phone

01:00:08 ◼   ► ever and buy a lot.

01:00:09 ◼   ► And yes, right now I checked this morning.

01:00:11 ◼   ► If you want to pre-order a phone, uh they will be shipping in late

01:00:15 ◼   ► January currently is the the window that they're expecting.

01:00:19 ◼   ► Uh Apple have issued a statement on pre order availability.

01:00:22 ◼   ► This is from Bloomberg.

01:00:23 ◼   ► The pre order demand for iPhone Duo has been nothing short of extraordinary.

01:00:27 ◼   ► We are working hard to get this revolutionary new product into our customers' hands

01:00:31 ◼   ► as quickly as possible, and we will continue accepting orders online.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Our teams look forward to welcoming customers at Apple stores worldwide to experience the

01:00:40 ◼   ► iPhone Duo, an incredible full iPhone lineup for themselves.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I need I I almost slipped into that like old time news thing.

01:00:48 ◼   ► Like the pre order for demand for iPhone Duo has been extraordinary.

01:00:53 ◼   ► Well, Bloomberg added themselves, which was a good ad, Apple did not disclose whether

01:00:58 ◼   ► inventory would actually be available for customers in in store.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Then Harley Charlton at Mac Rumors is reporting that Apple store employees are being

01:01:09 ◼   ► told not to expect stock for walk-in purchases this Friday.

01:01:14 ◼   ► Quote, staff have been instructed to discourage customers without pre-orders from coming in expecting

01:01:19 ◼   ► to buy the device warning that they will be disappointed.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Was this a supply issue?

01:01:26 ◼   ► Is it a demand issue?

01:01:28 ◼   ► Or is it a both issue?

01:01:29 ◼   ► Probably.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Porque

01:01:31 ◼   ► no last dose.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Uh yeah, it is it is both, right?

01:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:34 ◼   ► I think so.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Apple won't Apple won't say.

01:01:38 ◼   ► Apple knew that they were gonna sell out.

01:01:40 ◼   ► They they they knew it because they they couldn't make 'em.

01:01:42 ◼   ► And I saw one angry post that was like, How dare Apple do?

01:01:44 ◼   ► People do this.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Somebody wrote like ha this is a failure.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:01:48 ◼   ► They they they blew it.

01:01:49 ◼   ► They should have just not like I mean really the argument was like they

01:01:52 ◼   ► should have just not shipped it.

01:01:53 ◼   ► If they could if if it was and it's like, I don't know, having

01:01:57 ◼   ► a highly demand in in in demand product seems pretty good.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And also it's a one point oh product.

01:02:01 ◼   ► So like letting it trickle out there may be fine.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:04 ◼   ► But we knew they didn't have that many of them.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And there were those stories about them having some production issues, which probably reduced

01:02:09 ◼   ► the number that they were able to make in time for launch.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:13 ◼   ► And I would say my guess is demand is greater than they anticipated too.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I bet it's both.

01:02:20 ◼   ► I bet it's both.

01:02:21 ◼   ► Because I when it was announced, there were a lot of people who were

01:02:24 ◼   ► like, I don't know, it's expensive who wants this thing?

01:02:28 ◼   ► And it's like, well, lots of people want this thing.

01:02:32 ◼   ► That's it.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Bottom line, lots of people want this thing.

01:02:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think we spoke about it at the time that like

01:02:37 ◼   ► the thing that was really intriguing to me and also was a signal that

01:02:42 ◼   ► this thing was gonna be popular was that it became a meme.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Like I was seeing like people and brands memeing about the iPhone Duo within

01:02:52 ◼   ► the days after it launches.

01:02:54 ◼   ► And it's like that kind of thing is that's what you want to exist.

01:02:57 ◼   ► Because it means now just more people know about this.

01:03:00 ◼   ► Like the the curiosity factor for the iPhone do I expect is very high.

01:03:05 ◼   ► And curiosity over a couple of weeks will turn to just interest.

01:03:10 ◼   ► And and like there will be a lot of people who are like, you

01:03:12 ◼   ► know what?

01:03:12 ◼   ► I think I wanna I like my iPhone.

01:03:14 ◼   ► This seems really interesting.

01:03:16 ◼   ► I like the idea of having an iPad in my pocket.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Like, let me go and check this thing out.

01:03:20 ◼   ► And then if you you know, if you pay attention to to technology social

01:03:24 ◼   ► media, lots of people have been making really interesting and fun and like weird

01:03:30 ◼   ► little concepts of of apps that they could make for this thing.

01:03:34 ◼   ► And and I think that all of that Just continues to I would say

01:03:39 ◼   ► the time in between the duo being announced and now has only really been

01:03:43 ◼   ► filled with positivity.

01:03:45 ◼   ► Like there's like people that are excited about it.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Apple have done a really good job of rolling out influencers to come and

01:03:51 ◼   ► try this thing over the time, right?

01:03:53 ◼   ► They they keep kind of having it available for people to come and check

01:03:56 ◼   ► out and post about it on social media and stuff like that.

01:03:59 ◼   ► And I think that all that has done is actually increase the amount of

01:04:04 ◼   ► of interest in the device.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Um and yeah, I I uh uh I I think the smart take is

01:04:10 ◼   ► the one that you have made, which is that this is an issue across

01:04:14 ◼   ► all spectrum.

01:04:15 ◼   ► They didn't have enough.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Well they probably weren't gonna build enough then they couldn't build enough, and then

01:04:22 ◼   ► the demand was too high.

01:04:24 ◼   ► It's probably the the way that this has gone.

01:04:27 ◼   ► And I don't know what it says for the future.

01:04:30 ◼   ► Like maybe now they're like great, we can now put a lot more money

01:04:33 ◼   ► and effort into scaling this thing up because we know we have demand.

01:04:36 ◼   ► And also something like this uh does actually create more demand.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Now, I don't believe any company

01:04:45 ◼   ► realistically wants to create a scenario where someone wants to give you money and

01:04:50 ◼   ► they can't do that.

01:04:51 ◼   ► You know, like people used to say that Nintendo were doing that with the

01:04:54 ◼   ► Nintendo Wii, right?

01:04:55 ◼   ► That they were like trying to make it out of stock because it creates

01:04:59 ◼   ► this thing of oh, you gotta buy it.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Also, Apple, to be clear, Apple will let you place an order.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:04 ◼   ► You know, Apple has never been the kind that's been like, no, we don't

01:05:08 ◼   ► have any.

01:05:08 ◼   ► You can't give us your credit card information.

01:05:10 ◼   ► They're like, no, we'll give you a date.

01:05:13 ◼   ► But what you never wanna do though when you're selling someone something is give

01:05:16 ◼   ► them the ability to change their mind, right?

01:05:18 ◼   ► Of course.

01:05:19 ◼   ► And and and like if if you take the the money, you give people

01:05:23 ◼   ► a lot of opportunity to to to change their mind on that order, right?

01:05:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:27 ◼   ► But it's better than what the video game people do, which is they don't

01:05:30 ◼   ► they won't take your money.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Apple will take your money and then make you wait.

01:05:33 ◼   ► And yes, you can cancel obviously.

01:05:36 ◼   ► But they th that's a step up.

01:05:38 ◼   ► But you're right.

01:05:39 ◼   ► I mean, in the end you wanna if if there's demand, the the goal

01:05:42 ◼   ► this is like economics one oh one, right?

01:05:44 ◼   ► Like the goal is fulfill all demand.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:47 ◼   ► And I you know, I'm I'm not surprised that they struggled with this product

01:05:52 ◼   ► because it's new for them and it is ambitious.

01:05:54 ◼   ► It reminds me of the Vision Pro.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Same thing, right?

01:05:57 ◼   ► But the demand wasn't there for the Vision Pro, really, right?

01:05:59 ◼   ► Like so that they they probably sold a big chunk of the ones that

01:06:03 ◼   ► they could make,

01:06:05 ◼   ► but it wasn't such a bloodbath because there the amount of interest was not

01:06:09 ◼   ► there.

01:06:09 ◼   ► And like this is the difference where Exactly.

01:06:12 ◼   ► The interest is absolutely there.

01:06:15 ◼   ► And look, it's possible that beyond we don't know and Apple has a Apple

01:06:21 ◼   ► at least knows what the pre orders are.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:23 ◼   ► But even Apple doesn't beyond the frontier there, which is are we selling these

01:06:30 ◼   ► to everybody who wants one?

01:06:31 ◼   ► And then after that happens, nobody wants one.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Or does demand keep going on as people get these things and they like

01:06:39 ◼   ► they're in they see them and they're interested in them and they like them.

01:06:41 ◼   ► And nobody knows that.

01:06:42 ◼   ► So it is possible that everybody who wants an iPhone duo is about to

01:06:46 ◼   ► get one and then that's it.

01:06:47 ◼   ► And no one else will want one.

01:06:48 ◼   ► I think that's unlikely, but it's possible.

01:06:51 ◼   ► And also they know how good the product is.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Like meaning good or bad, right?

01:06:56 ◼   ► That like if they believe, like genuinely believe, they have made a very good

01:07:01 ◼   ► compelling product, then what they should feel is that demand will increase as reviews

01:07:08 ◼   ► and word of mouth spread.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:12 ◼   ► But but have they actually made a really good compelling product?

01:07:16 ◼   ► There was a report that they had made they had ordered more of them,

01:07:19 ◼   ► I thought I saw.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Sure.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Which pr probably involves some d amount amount of demand forecast as well as

01:07:25 ◼   ► some confidence that like people like this and they're gonna go they're gonna like

01:07:28 ◼   ► it.

01:07:28 ◼   ► But you're right.

01:07:28 ◼   ► I think if you're

01:07:30 ◼   ► y again, what I was saying before, they're never gonna say, Well, it's okay.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Right?

01:07:35 ◼   ► They're gonna say this the best 'cause they always are gonna say that 'cause

01:07:38 ◼   ► it's PR and it's sales.

01:07:39 ◼   ► But if they know it's not, that allows them to make a smart business

01:07:43 ◼   ► decision to hedge on how many they'd build.

01:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:47 ◼   ► And if uh and sometimes they're surprised.

01:07:50 ◼   ► But um yeah, it does it does feel like they

01:07:54 ◼   ► I mean the it's a challenge for Apple because they know the next one

01:07:57 ◼   ► is gonna be better.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:58 ◼   ► They always know that.

01:07:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:00 ◼   ► And they have to just like live in the present,

01:08:03 ◼   ► which I think for most of us and most of our listeners, this would

01:08:06 ◼   ► be difficult, right?

01:08:07 ◼   ► It's always gonna be difficult, like you're extolling the virtues of the home view,

01:08:10 ◼   ► which has been sitting for two years, and you've been building the next home

01:08:14 ◼   ► view, which is so much better, and you can't talk about it and you

01:08:17 ◼   ► can't act like you just have to put yourself in the mind of two

01:08:20 ◼   ► years ago.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And the Apple people do this.

01:08:22 ◼   ► But um when it comes to business forecasting, they got they they they gotta

01:08:26 ◼   ► just think about like how is this product gonna be received in the market.

01:08:30 ◼   ► It must be really hard to do that.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Like, you know, like when they have to show it off and stuff, it'd

01:08:34 ◼   ► be like, Hey, look at this thing.

01:08:35 ◼   ► Like you know, they're doing like the the part of the press round.

01:08:38 ◼   ► It's like they always seem really excited about these products, but it's like how

01:08:41 ◼   ► long have you been using this thing?

01:08:42 ◼   ► You know, like how long has the iPhone Duo been in John Turnus' office

01:08:47 ◼   ► then he's been using it every day or whatever.

01:08:49 ◼   ► But yeah, they do a good job.

01:08:51 ◼   ► They do a good job.

01:08:52 ◼   ► So you can currently buy cases for the duo, as is the usual way.

01:08:55 ◼   ► You can.

01:08:56 ◼   ► You can have them.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And they will arrive with you in your home.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Yes.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Classic.

01:09:00 ◼   ► Interestingly, the silicone case which is the case that is two halves,

01:09:06 ◼   ► it requires adhesive to fit to the device.

01:09:11 ◼   ► So this is a thing that I I mean, I've seen this done in

01:09:14 ◼   ► a couple of ways.

01:09:15 ◼   ► I've seen cases that they kind of snap on and hold with friction.

01:09:19 ◼   ► I've seen cases that fit with adhesives.

01:09:23 ◼   ► I find this to be a really interesting choice that they have made here.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Um Do you know what kind of adhesive this is?

01:09:30 ◼   ► Do you know if this is like

01:09:32 ◼   ► take it on and off and it's still adhesive and it's this like you

01:09:36 ◼   ► stick it on and it's I don't personally know, no.

01:09:39 ◼   ► Um and I and I don't know if you haven't done any lab analysis

01:09:42 ◼   ► of that yet.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I have not, no, because I don't have one.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Uh but I have not done any lab analysis.

01:09:47 ◼   ► My ex my expectation is it is an adhesive like maybe one of those

01:09:52 ◼   ► kind of like um removal removable and you can stick it back on again,

01:09:56 ◼   ► kind of adhesives.

01:09:59 ◼   ► My guess is is you can take it on and off, but after a

01:10:02 ◼   ► while it won't stick to naturally it will it will lose its stickiness.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Um I just find this to be a v a weird decision.

01:10:10 ◼   ► It's

01:10:11 ◼   ► decision.

01:10:11 ◼   ► It's a weird phone with weird accessories.

01:10:14 ◼   ► Because even the back, which surely is magnetically attached.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Ah.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Because they also make another one that is one part

01:10:25 ◼   ► that doesn't have this.

01:10:26 ◼   ► So the kickstand case you don't glue on.

01:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:31 ◼   ► But the silicone one you do.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Look, they took the they took the guy who came up with fine woven.

01:10:37 ◼   ► He's like, I got a great idea.

01:10:39 ◼   ► A guy?

01:10:40 ◼   ► It's called fine glue.

01:10:41 ◼   ► Are you ready?

01:10:42 ◼   ► Glue uphesive.

01:10:44 ◼   ► You gotta admire that guy though, because he really sticks to his Thank you.

01:10:48 ◼   ► It's great.

01:10:49 ◼   ► This is a marker of what is going to be, I think, a thing

01:10:53 ◼   ► over the next two, three weeks or whatever, is finding all of the interesting

01:11:01 ◼   ► things that happen when you're using this phone.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Because I just think there's gonna be a lot of them.

01:11:08 ◼   ► Uh and and is why I'm really excited because I d I don't even

01:11:14 ◼   ► know what's coming for me yet.

01:11:15 ◼   ► You know, I can guarantee people that this is a thing that's gonna happen

01:11:18 ◼   ► to you, which is you're gonna unfold it.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Yep.

01:11:21 ◼   ► And it's gonna be in your hands.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Yep.

01:11:23 ◼   ► And remember, the other side of it's got a camera bump on it, but

01:11:25 ◼   ► you're gonna be looking at the interior screen.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Your hands are gonna be on it.

01:11:30 ◼   ► And you're gonna have that moment of like, where's the camera bump back there?

01:11:35 ◼   ► Cause you o cause you have to make a decision of like as you

01:11:37 ◼   ► open it, like where are your hands and how do you hold it and

01:11:40 ◼   ► are you gonna turn it and which way would you turn it?

01:11:43 ◼   ► And there's gonna be a moment where you're like

01:11:45 ◼   ► I don't know where this product is in space, right?

01:11:48 ◼   ► Like I don't know.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Do I do this?

01:11:51 ◼   ► Do I do that?

01:11:51 ◼   ► Where do I put my fingers?

01:11:53 ◼   ► Where's the touch ID button?

01:11:55 ◼   ► Where do I do all of those things?

01:11:57 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:11:58 ◼   ► After you use it for a couple of weeks, that'll all fade away, presumably.

01:12:02 ◼   ► But like in that moment, there's gonna be a lot of that, which is

01:12:05 ◼   ► like, what how do I hold the cause it's like a different shape that

01:12:09 ◼   ► people are not used to?

01:12:10 ◼   ► And so there's gonna be a real like human muscle memory kind of like

01:12:16 ◼   ► what do I how do I and and that's gonna be everybody's gonna experience

01:12:20 ◼   ► that and it's gonna be interesting.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Yeah it's like I was playing around with the iPhone simulator yesterday just to

01:12:26 ◼   ► kind of like what does the what does it look like in here?

01:12:30 ◼   ► And as far as I can tell from the simulator, like a thing I

01:12:34 ◼   ► hadn't considered, obviously you can do split screen multitasking, but not in portrait.

01:12:41 ◼   ► In Portrait.

01:12:42 ◼   ► It's just one app.

01:12:42 ◼   ► It's just one app.

01:12:43 ◼   ► Which, like, maybe that's fine, but I never really thought about that.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Like I just assumed you would do two apps like you do on the

01:12:50 ◼   ► iPad.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Oh, but they'd be breaking they they'd be breaking not across the fold then.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:54 ◼   ► They'd be breaking against the fold.

01:12:56 ◼   ► Against perpendicular to the fold.

01:12:58 ◼   ► But it's like if that is the way it ships, it's like Okay.

01:13:02 ◼   ► Oh yeah, and Mihir says this is a good point.

01:13:04 ◼   ► In portrait, you can do picture you can do the split for video.

01:13:08 ◼   ► So you can have video on the top but not on the top and

01:13:11 ◼   ► the app on the bottom.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:12 ◼   ► But why can't apps on top on b you know, it's like an interesting

01:13:15 ◼   ► like

01:13:16 ◼   ► Or maybe I can but it doesn't work in the simul but whatever it

01:13:20 ◼   ► is, it's like I cannot wait.

01:13:22 ◼   ► To learn how to use an iPhone again.

01:13:24 ◼   ► Like I could it's like a whole new way to use an iPhone.

01:13:28 ◼   ► And I feel like I really understand how to use an iPhone, and this

01:13:31 ◼   ► one doesn't work exactly like the ones that I'm used to.

01:13:34 ◼   ► Now this is uncharted territory for iOS in a lot of ways, which is

01:13:36 ◼   ► very right and it it's like not an iPad.

01:13:38 ◼   ► This is iPhone.

01:13:39 ◼   ► iOS is weird now on this device.

01:13:43 ◼   ► I had the thing where and I'm sure it's it's easier on the device,

01:13:46 ◼   ► but it it doesn't matter if you should just get used to it.

01:13:48 ◼   ► Where I was like, where's the button?

01:13:50 ◼   ► And it was on the right.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Like it's like

01:13:53 ◼   ► where's the back button?

01:13:54 ◼   ► Oh no, so this is what I'm saying.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:56 ◼   ► This is what I'm saying is that is that spatially you're gonna be like,

01:14:00 ◼   ► I don't know where anything I can't see, like what button do I press

01:14:05 ◼   ► and where is it?

01:14:06 ◼   ► Where is the camera right now?

01:14:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:14:08 ◼   ► I don't a and I mean, you're gonna have that moment where your where

01:14:13 ◼   ► your pinky goes around the edge and is like, Oh, I just touched the

01:14:16 ◼   ► front of the camera with my finger.

01:14:17 ◼   ► That's not good.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Yep.

01:14:19 ◼   ► And it's gonna be 'cause you didn't know it was there, because you had

01:14:22 ◼   ► a vision about where that camera bump was and you're not holding the phone

01:14:25 ◼   ► like that.

01:14:26 ◼   ► And that's all gonna happen.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Look forward to next week's episode where I have many of these questions because

01:14:32 ◼   ► well I'm like, Oh, I don't where this is and I don't know where

01:14:34 ◼   ► that is.

01:14:34 ◼   ► And I'm excited that like, even though I wish you had one immediately, uh,

01:14:38 ◼   ► we're gonna just be talking about this phone for weeks and weeks and weeks

01:14:41 ◼   ► because we're both gonna be experiencing it at different times and then having new

01:14:44 ◼   ► experiences and I'm very, very excited for the end of this week.

01:14:51 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Claude from Anthropic.

01:14:55 ◼   ► Claude is the AI for problem solvers.

01:14:58 ◼   ► It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for

01:15:03 ◼   ► you.

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01:15:13 ◼   ► Uh just a couple of weeks ago I did something with Claude that I'm

01:15:16 ◼   ► super pleased with.

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01:15:21 ◼   ► card, like whose purchases are whose, that kind of thing.

01:15:23 ◼   ► And she does this by going through a statement and she has a Google

01:15:26 ◼   ► sheet and she kind of like puts all the transactions into a Google sheet

01:15:30 ◼   ► and then she will just say, like, Oh, this is mine, this is yours,

01:15:33 ◼   ► this is mine, this is yours and that takes a while.

01:15:35 ◼   ► And I thought, Whoa, hang on a minute, why are you doing this now?

01:15:39 ◼   ► We don't need to live like this anymore.

01:15:41 ◼   ► So I said, give me the Google Sheet.

01:15:42 ◼   ► I took the Google sheet, I gave it to Claude, I explained what was

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01:16:00 ◼   ► And she's very excited about it because she doesn't like doing the job of

01:16:03 ◼   ► going through the statement, but it needs to be done.

01:16:05 ◼   ► And now we have something that can do it.

01:16:08 ◼   ► Super cool.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Claude also is for knowledge work.

01:16:12 ◼   ► You can hand Claude a whole task and it hands back something finished that

01:16:16 ◼   ► you can open and edit.

01:16:17 ◼   ► By default, Claude checks with you before it takes an action.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Start something at your desk, check in in it from your iPhone and Claude

01:16:24 ◼   ► keeps going even after you close your laptop.

01:16:26 ◼   ► I find that to be a really, really interesting feature.

01:16:28 ◼   ► I've been enjoying that a lot recently.

01:16:31 ◼   ► Claude's latest models, Fable and Opus, they're the most capable models yet and they

01:16:36 ◼   ► really shine when it comes to long, tricky work.

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01:17:11 ◼   ► Our thanks to Claude for their support of this show and all a relay.

01:17:16 ◼   ► Let's finish out with some ask upgrade questions.

01:17:21 ◼   ► Would Jason or Mike?

01:17:22 ◼   ► I I appreciate this, Darren, but this is for Jason.

01:17:25 ◼   ► Would Jason consider iPhone Duo as an e-reader between its book like folding inner

01:17:31 ◼   ► screen, the nanotexture display, and a plethora of assisted techno assistive technologies and shortcuts

01:17:37 ◼   ► to toggle those technologies, you can get pretty close to an e ink device,

01:17:42 ◼   ► maybe?

01:17:43 ◼   ► Look, maybe.

01:17:46 ◼   ► But what I like about e-readers is that they are unitaskers.

01:17:51 ◼   ► And I when I'm reading on my e-reader, I'm just reading a book.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:55 ◼   ► I'm not getting any push.

01:17:56 ◼   ► It's not it's not my phone.

01:17:58 ◼   ► I'm not getting push notifications.

01:17:59 ◼   ► And yeah, okay.

01:18:00 ◼   ► So then you can say, Well, you can set it up so that you're

01:18:03 ◼   ► not getting notifications when you're in your reading app and all that.

01:18:06 ◼   ► It's like, Yeah, I can.

01:18:09 ◼   ► I mean, I read on my iPhone if I'm like out of the doctor's

01:18:11 ◼   ► office or something where I don't bring my e reader with me or any

01:18:14 ◼   ► other place, although now I've been reading that with that XT Inc.

01:18:17 ◼   ► uh thing, which uh is uh tiny.

01:18:21 ◼   ► I've been reading more with that in places like the doctor's office.

01:18:24 ◼   ► You just throw it in the bag, throw it in your fo in your

01:18:26 ◼   ► pocket, it's easy.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Um But I look, I'm interested in every possible way that that the iPhone

01:18:33 ◼   ► Duo could change my approach to reading.

01:18:36 ◼   ► I do all my reading in the morning on an iPad, and that's where

01:18:38 ◼   ► I I think I might change and use the iPhone duo, but we'll have

01:18:42 ◼   ► to see.

01:18:44 ◼   ► I keep seeing, you know, like w when I'm s on social media people

01:18:48 ◼   ► going to these events or like your product imagery and stuff, you see that

01:18:51 ◼   ► thing where like people they're holding it in in the kind of half open

01:18:55 ◼   ► state and they're like s swiping on it.

01:18:58 ◼   ► So oh look, it's a book.

01:18:59 ◼   ► I'm not convinced that that is something that we'll feel comfortable to hold and

01:19:06 ◼   ► like use.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Like I'm just not sure.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Like, is that something that people

01:19:11 ◼   ► Will actually wanna do that like little half bent thing.

01:19:14 ◼   ► I I haven't used one, so I don't know.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Right.

01:19:17 ◼   ► But it's like that is a big question for me.

01:19:19 ◼   ► It's like a thing that it does and I understand it for like where

01:19:23 ◼   ► you can prop it up on on a on a table and do things.

01:19:26 ◼   ► But like the idea of holding it like that to read, I just don't

01:19:30 ◼   ► know how that's gonna feel.

01:19:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:19:31 ◼   ► I don't understand why it's weird.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe, but it it yeah, it feels it feels more novelty than real.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Uh Randall says, Do you think the iPhone Duo has two TapTec engines?

01:19:42 ◼   ► I can't imagine how else taps would be felt across both halves of the

01:19:46 ◼   ► display in different orientations, especially with the hinge in the middle.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I was thinking about this because I've always been sad that the iPad mini

01:19:52 ◼   ► doesn't have one at all.

01:19:54 ◼   ► I thought.

01:19:56 ◼   ► We obviously don't, but like I I wonder like you figure they've it would

01:20:02 ◼   ► need to, right?

01:20:03 ◼   ► Like it if you Unless unless the taps do conduct across through the hinge.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Could it?

01:20:10 ◼   ► Like I I don't understand enough about how that technology works.

01:20:13 ◼   ► I d I don't know.

01:20:14 ◼   ► I mean what we'll find out.

01:20:15 ◼   ► Like if we feel a tap and it's coming from the left side or

01:20:18 ◼   ► the right side

01:20:19 ◼   ► part and

01:20:21 ◼   ► I cannot wait for the teardown of this.

01:20:22 ◼   ► Oh my god, I just thought, wow, that teardown's gonna be bananas.

01:20:27 ◼   ► It is gonna be bananas.

01:20:28 ◼   ► They must be terrified, right?

01:20:30 ◼   ► Because like well I guess they I'm sure they have a lot of experience

01:20:34 ◼   ► tearing down folding phones by now.

01:20:36 ◼   ► But I'm just sure they're much more complicated as like devices to to to

01:20:40 ◼   ► take apart.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Um but yeah, I I can't wait to see the uh the teardown of

01:20:45 ◼   ► that now.

01:20:46 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:20:47 ◼   ► Uh Ezat wrote in it says, I really love my matte display MacBook Pro.

01:20:53 ◼   ► Yeah, that's nanotech.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Yes, sorry.

01:20:55 ◼   ► I'm also excited about the matte screen layer on the duo.

01:20:58 ◼   ► Recently it came out that the matte layer on the duo is replaceable.

01:21:02 ◼   ► Considering this, do you think an optional matte layer would be available in a

01:21:05 ◼   ► future iPhone?

01:21:07 ◼   ► It makes sense to be replaceable on a phone since it would be prone

01:21:10 ◼   ► to micro scratches.

01:21:12 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:21:13 ◼   ► I think Apple is happy to let that be a third party opportunity unless

01:21:17 ◼   ► it has to be on the device, in which case the iPhone Duo is

01:21:21 ◼   ► it.

01:21:21 ◼   ► I I I can't imagine.

01:21:22 ◼   ► If people really like it, I could imagine a nanotexture option for the iPhone

01:21:28 ◼   ► that is like what they do for the iPad, which is different to what

01:21:31 ◼   ► they're doing for the iPhone Duo and different to what they're doing for the

01:21:34 ◼   ► match.

01:21:34 ◼   ► I can't imagine them pre installing a a a a mat screen cover that

01:21:40 ◼   ► you can peel off on an iPhone.

01:21:42 ◼   ► But you're right.

01:21:43 ◼   ► If it really if they really felt like it was gonna be awesome, they

01:21:46 ◼   ► could offer a nanotexture.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I don't think they will, but they could do it that way where it's

01:21:51 ◼   ► literally the screen is different, coded differently.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Yeah which is what they do for the the iPad Pro, right?

01:21:56 ◼   ► Like it it's uh and you can still use your finger on it, which

01:21:58 ◼   ► is not what they did for some of the display stuff before.

01:22:01 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Um and also the the problem is and the reason that you will be

01:22:05 ◼   ► able to have the duo replaceable in the notice is because it will be

01:22:07 ◼   ► softer.

01:22:08 ◼   ► Right?

01:22:09 ◼   ► And you cannot have an iPhone exposed with a softer layer on top.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It will be destroyed.

01:22:16 ◼   ► Like you can do it for a folding phone because when you're putting it

01:22:19 ◼   ► in a bag, you're putting it in a pocket, you're closing it and y

01:22:22 ◼   ► you are you are you're c you are protecting the softer layer.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Um now again like the softness thing, it's not gonna be like the plasticky

01:22:30 ◼   ► ones on the original folding phones, but it is softer.

01:22:34 ◼   ► All of that's gotten better, but it's still prone to damage, which is why

01:22:39 ◼   ► Apple, I think, greatly has thought about how they can make it easily and

01:22:45 ◼   ► somewhat cheaply replaceable.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Because a significant portion of iPhone Duo customers over the lifetime of their ownership

01:22:53 ◼   ► will probably want to replace that layer.

01:22:55 ◼   ► So they're they've made it in such a way that that will be uh

01:22:58 ◼   ► easy enough to do.

01:23:00 ◼   ► Santiago writes in and asks, it seems Apple is stuck with A series chips

01:23:04 ◼   ► for their home devices, even though they have become probably overpowered and definitely overpriced

01:23:10 ◼   ► these days for them.

01:23:11 ◼   ► It feels crazy that such powerful chips are powering displays, Apple TVs, and the

01:23:16 ◼   ► home view.

01:23:17 ◼   ► Do you think Apple would benefit from a new line of chips that sits

01:23:20 ◼   ► below the A series but above the S series for these kinds of devices?

01:23:25 ◼   ► I think it's a great question.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Of course they would benefit, but I think that they they're the effort to

01:23:30 ◼   ► create an a chip just for those kinds of devices, I I think is

01:23:34 ◼   ► just beyond the economics of doing chip design.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I think Apple's whole shtick, and this does not get enough coverage, but it's

01:23:43 ◼   ► one of my favorite things about Apple, is How industrious they are at using

01:23:50 ◼   ► and reusing all their stuff.

01:23:52 ◼   ► How does a company, I know Apple's huge, but like a company of Apple's

01:23:57 ◼   ► in terms of the people who are working on their hardware and software, how

01:24:00 ◼   ► do they have so many different OSs and so many different hardware products?

01:24:04 ◼   ► And the answer is they reuse parts.

01:24:06 ◼   ► They reuse software and they reuse hardware.

01:24:11 ◼   ► And it goes down to the chips.

01:24:13 ◼   ► So they have to have an S chip for the watch.

01:24:16 ◼   ► They have to have an A chip for the phone.

01:24:20 ◼   ► And they have to have an M chip for the Mac.

01:24:22 ◼   ► And a H chip for the headphones, too.

01:24:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:25 ◼   ► I mean they they build those chips that they have to.

01:24:28 ◼   ► And then they repurpose them.

01:24:31 ◼   ► And if I don't I mean, look, if it turned out that there were

01:24:37 ◼   ► a slot for something that made sense, they could build a custom chip for

01:24:40 ◼   ► it.

01:24:40 ◼   ► But I think it's more likely, like I'll give you an example.

01:24:43 ◼   ► I think it's more likely that they look at the next generation of home

01:24:46 ◼   ► products and they say, Is this an A or an S, right?

01:24:49 ◼   ► Can we could we s could we just have the next because they design

01:24:53 ◼   ► the chips, right?

01:24:54 ◼   ► Is there a way for us to j design the next watch chips so

01:24:56 ◼   ► it also drives a home pod.

01:25:00 ◼   ► They will do that.

01:25:01 ◼   ► But what they're not gonna do is say, let's create the K chips or

01:25:05 ◼   ► whatever.

01:25:06 ◼   ► Like they're just not they're just not gonna do it unless it it it

01:25:09 ◼   ► it just the benefit the cost of designing a chip like that is is

01:25:14 ◼   ► big and then you're not using it very much and like you don't it

01:25:18 ◼   ► doesn't make sense.

01:25:19 ◼   ► So I I don't disagree with Santiago's point here that you end up with

01:25:23 ◼   ► these really weird situations where you've got a product that has to take an

01:25:29 ◼   ► A chip and Apple's been driving forward with the A chip and maybe they've

01:25:33 ◼   ► stopped making the old models of chip and you gotta update and the apple

01:25:36 ◼   ► the implication here is like that Apple TV and that studio display are awfully

01:25:40 ◼   ► overpowered in terms of what's in them in terms of a chip.

01:25:44 ◼   ► But the studio displays, I think, a great example where it's running iOS and

01:25:48 ◼   ► it's got an A chip in it, and you never see it.

01:25:50 ◼   ► I've used studio display since the very beginning.

01:25:53 ◼   ► I have two of them.

01:25:54 ◼   ► You never see it.

01:25:55 ◼   ► It's totally irrelevant.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Is it overpowered?

01:26:00 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, it is.

01:26:01 ◼   ► But Apple

01:26:03 ◼   ► decided that technically that was the best those are the best parts to use

01:26:07 ◼   ► or reuse in order to make that product.

01:26:09 ◼   ► So does it lead to weird distortions like that?

01:26:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:12 ◼   ► But that's their decision.

01:26:14 ◼   ► And I think I I I think it's unlikely that they'll create a new

01:26:17 ◼   ► class of chip even though they they're gonna have to deal with this because

01:26:20 ◼   ► they've obviously done the math and realized that that doesn't pencil out.

01:26:25 ◼   ► I can ema you know, maybe if

01:26:29 ◼   ► if they thought what was happening now was going to happen multiple multiple years

01:26:34 ◼   ► ago, maybe that could have been a reason that that would work out, right?

01:26:39 ◼   ► Sure.

01:26:40 ◼   ► If they knew what it costs to create a chip that's got that much

01:26:43 ◼   ► RAM on it and then put it in a low cost device that can't

01:26:46 ◼   ► be low cost anymore, they had anticipated that it's possible that they would have

01:26:50 ◼   ► done that or done a variant of it that had less RAM or was

01:26:54 ◼   ► cheaper.

01:26:55 ◼   ► If it yes, if they could have forecast what was about to happen, maybe,

01:26:59 ◼   ► maybe.

01:27:00 ◼   ► But even then, it might not have been a new chip, it might have

01:27:02 ◼   ► just been like a a cheaper variant or something.

01:27:05 ◼   ► And like, you know, and maybe now they're like, Oh, you know, is there

01:27:09 ◼   ► something I'm sure they're always having these conversations, right?

01:27:11 ◼   ► Like I'm sure every time they're like, Okay, what chip is gonna go in

01:27:15 ◼   ► this display?

01:27:16 ◼   ► Someone's like, Should we really be putting these and and they work it out

01:27:20 ◼   ► and they're like, Yes, actually we should be putting iPhone chips inside of the

01:27:23 ◼   ► studio display for that for the twenty percent of the power that we need

01:27:26 ◼   ► because it just makes sense for us to do.

01:27:28 ◼   ► And this floated up in the Discord, but I think it's worth mentioning.

01:27:31 ◼   ► Part of Apple's chip deal, um, to do chip manufacturing in the US, like

01:27:35 ◼   ► those aren't going to be on the cutting edge nodes that yeah uh TSMC

01:27:38 ◼   ► is doing in Taiwan.

01:27:39 ◼   ► They're gonna be on the older ones.

01:27:40 ◼   ► And I do wonder if that's part of their strategy.

01:27:43 ◼   ► Is they're gonna be making chips in the US that are not for the

01:27:46 ◼   ► iPhone Pro, right?

01:27:48 ◼   ► But they are older chips that they seed in other products.

01:27:52 ◼   ► And maybe that's it, because again, in the end it's like we designed this

01:27:55 ◼   ► chip once

01:27:57 ◼   ► and then we make a zillion of them.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:59 ◼   ► And now we're making a zillion of them and we're including it in our

01:28:02 ◼   ► US chip strategy.

01:28:03 ◼   ► They have a lot of areas now where there is a genuine strategy to

01:28:07 ◼   ► just keep using old and old and old chips, right?

01:28:10 ◼   ► They have entire laptops now that can be powered by these things.

01:28:14 ◼   ► They become cheaper as they go.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Yep.

01:28:17 ◼   ► And the more you do.

01:28:18 ◼   ► And so that's the s that's their strategy is not make a bespoke chip

01:28:22 ◼   ► for a product, but part of the and this is part of Johnny Surugi's

01:28:25 ◼   ► job uh that's really interesting, I think, and and a difficult job.

01:28:30 ◼   ► And whoever you know else is is a part of it, but it is

01:28:32 ◼   ► like a hardware specific thing, which is so Turnus used to be involved with

01:28:36 ◼   ► it too, which is the game plan for an A chip is not just

01:28:41 ◼   ► that iPhone.

01:28:43 ◼   ► It's all the other products that Apple's going to be making that are on

01:28:46 ◼   ► its roadmap over years that are going to be part of that.

01:28:49 ◼   ► And they are doing the math of how many of these are we making

01:28:52 ◼   ► over time.

01:28:53 ◼   ► And now with the stuff that's happening in the US that's gonna be on

01:28:57 ◼   ► the on the not cutting edge nodes, it's stuff like that, right?

01:29:01 ◼   ► It it's gonna be like, well, we're gonna use this A17 for a long

01:29:06 ◼   ► time because we're gonna use it in all of these other things.

01:29:09 ◼   ► And and so I will also say a brand new A chip that ships

01:29:13 ◼   ► in a brand new iPhone is cutting edge and has expense.

01:29:18 ◼   ► But over time it's cheaper.

01:29:20 ◼   ► And over time it's not on the cutting edge.

01:29:23 ◼   ► And so that's part of it too, is that in two years, if it's

01:29:26 ◼   ► in a home product, it's not a cutting edge product anymore.

01:29:30 ◼   ► And it's not it's not as expensive as it used to be.

01:29:33 ◼   ► And now it is more fitting that it is in a catalog product, that

01:29:37 ◼   ► it's lower volume, lower price product.

01:29:40 ◼   ► And that's part of their calculation too.

01:29:41 ◼   ► I think it's really interesting.

01:29:43 ◼   ► And this is one of those cases where because Apple makes it themselves, they

01:29:47 ◼   ► are figuring out how to do that.

01:29:49 ◼   ► Whereas it's a different scenario if you are buying off of a price list

01:29:54 ◼   ► from a chip supplier.

01:29:56 ◼   ► Then, you know, if you I mean there are different issues, right?

01:29:59 ◼   ► We know what happened with Intel, but like and with Qualcomm and but but

01:30:04 ◼   ► there are different issues, but it's the same idea of like

01:30:07 ◼   ► Well, for this one I I want this chip off of your menu.

01:30:11 ◼   ► And you do have to risk them saying, We can't make enough of those

01:30:15 ◼   ► um for you.

01:30:17 ◼   ► But instead, Apple has to make those decisions up front and they they have

01:30:20 ◼   ► a smaller array.

01:30:21 ◼   ► They're not producing for a bunch of customers, they're just producing for themselves.

01:30:24 ◼   ► So that limits them.

01:30:25 ◼   ► So it's it is a it's worth it's an interesting question that is worth

01:30:29 ◼   ► thinking about.

01:30:30 ◼   ► Um, but I think that what Santiago's getting to is the idea like it

01:30:35 ◼   ► really requires

01:30:38 ◼   ► uh a big reason to build a custom chip because there's enormous cost in

01:30:46 ◼   ► designing a brand new chip.

01:30:48 ◼   ► And if you're only using it in a few places, it's not worth it.

01:30:51 ◼   ► Now, maybe Apple is foreseeing a time when there's going to be an array

01:30:54 ◼   ► of products, it's enough of them that having a chip that's not quite an

01:30:59 ◼   ► A chip would make sense.

01:31:02 ◼   ► Uh maybe that could happen, but so far that hasn't it nothing has gotten

01:31:07 ◼   ► to that threshold.

01:31:08 ◼   ► And I think Apple really likes the idea that they can take their old

01:31:10 ◼   ► A chips and use them elsewhere.

01:31:12 ◼   ► Even if they're not purpose built for the product, right?

01:31:15 ◼   ► Because that's the that's the other thing Santiago's getting at here is is an

01:31:18 ◼   ► iPhone chip a mismatch for a display?

01:31:21 ◼   ► Totally.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Yep.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Is it a mismatch for for HomeView?

01:31:24 ◼   ► I would say a little less so, but sure.

01:31:27 ◼   ► Like and is it a mismatch for the MacBook Neo?

01:31:29 ◼   ► I mean the MacBook Neo kind of exists because of the mismatch there.

01:31:33 ◼   ► So it could be positive, it could be negative.

01:31:35 ◼   ► Um I do think that like in the end, a normal person who's not

01:31:39 ◼   ► one of us just buys a studio display.

01:31:41 ◼   ► My my father-in-law doesn't know what chip is inside the studio display or what

01:31:45 ◼   ► OS runs it, right?

01:31:46 ◼   ► It doesn't matter to him.

01:31:48 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:31:49 ◼   ► It it's it is fascinating to see how they how they navigate this 'cause