Connected

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected Episode 627.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today is Thursday, November 5th.

00:00:14 ◼   ► I'll let you guess the year.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I'm your annual chairman, Stephen Hackett, and I'm joined by Mr.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Mike Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, and I have the pleasure of introducing to you all the returning champion,

00:00:26 ◼   ► keynote chairman, Federico Petici.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Hello, Federico.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:30 ◼   ► It is me, returning to the show.

00:00:31 ◼   ► It is you.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Welcome back from the city of Angels.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Los Angeles is pretty cool, I gotta say.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Nice place, right?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Better than San Francisco for sure.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Oh, he's doing it.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I agree with you.

00:00:46 ◼   ► I agree with you.

00:00:47 ◼   ► It's it's not a hot take, like I think it's pretty obvious.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I expect we have a lot of listeners from San Francisco.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I am sorry.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Is is m is the thing.

00:00:55 ◼   ► It's probably the the largest city.

00:00:57 ◼   ► I will come back to you uh on that.

00:00:59 ◼   ► I will find out what the the where our m the most city listeners

00:01:04 ◼   ► we have, if that's a phrase.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Find that out as we talk today.

00:01:07 ◼   ► The city listeners, okay.

00:01:08 ◼   ► City listeners.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Remember when I did the weirdest we did the weirdest was it the weirdest

00:01:14 ◼   ► listener?

00:01:15 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Do you remember that competition?

00:01:16 ◼   ► That was fun.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Very judgmental.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I can't remember where it was that they were from because it was a

00:01:23 ◼   ► a relatively obscure place, I think.

00:01:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:27 ◼   ► We have a bunch of follow up today.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I cleared out the form.

00:01:32 ◼   ► It's all here.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Except the stuff that I deleted that we weren't gonna talk about.

00:01:36 ◼   ► But the rest of it's here.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Because some people they just have some takes that aren't airing.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Or just like eh Yeah.

00:01:44 ◼   ► They some people have takes that aren't worth airing.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Now what I'll say is if you don't hear us taught say your take,

00:01:50 ◼   ► it doesn't mean we feel that.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Sometimes they just we don't have a place for them.

00:01:54 ◼   ► But sometimes people say some incredible things.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Someone wrote in burning down a piece of content that someone else made.

00:02:00 ◼   ► It's like we're not gonna engage in that.

00:02:03 ◼   ► You need to launch an attack on this person's content.

00:02:05 ◼   ► That's no, we don't we don't need to do that.

00:02:08 ◼   ► But thank you.

00:02:08 ◼   ► That's right.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Thank you though.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Catching strays in our feedback form.

00:02:13 ◼   ► We're gonna start with the MacBook Pro.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Nathan wrote in, if the Apple logo backlight and touch screen were sold as

00:02:21 ◼   ► optional add-ons with similar prices to the nanotexture option, which would you get?

00:02:27 ◼   ► I have a touch screen Windows laptop for work and I'd be surprised if

00:02:30 ◼   ► I use it 1% of the time.

00:02:33 ◼   ► It's nice to have when scrolling a document or use the mutant in calls

00:02:37 ◼   ► while on a call away from my desk.

00:02:39 ◼   ► I'm curious what Apple Magic they've included to better the Windows experience.

00:02:44 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:02:44 ◼   ► This is a really good question, actually.

00:02:46 ◼   ► First question.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Back backlight or touch screen?

00:02:50 ◼   ► Why does it have to be or touch screen?

00:02:52 ◼   ► Because that's the question.

00:02:53 ◼   ► It's a hypothetical.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Touch screen.

00:02:57 ◼   ► If the Apple logo, backlight and touch screen but sold as optional add-ons as

00:03:01 ◼   ► similar prices to the matte display, which would you get?

00:03:03 ◼   ► I figured I have it's on its board here.

00:03:05 ◼   ► It's and/or right, like I can I can choose what I what I want.

00:03:07 ◼   ► And I I I wouldn't get the matte display on a laptop personally.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Um, because then I would feel like I would need to have the nanotexture

00:03:19 ◼   ► display on my studio display as well, right?

00:03:21 ◼   ► Like I feel I feel like I would I would I would not want

00:03:25 ◼   ► a mismatched experience, but I would get the touch screen and the light up

00:03:28 ◼   ► logo.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I just get the touch screen.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Figured the the light up logo is fun though, right?

00:03:36 ◼   ► Like it's just this bit of whimsy.

00:03:38 ◼   ► It's had some whimsy.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I feel like Nathan just wanted to pick us one.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:03:45 ◼   ► If I if I only had could get one, I would get the touchscreen.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:49 ◼   ► If I could only get one, I would pick the logo.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Really?

00:03:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And Mac's way over there.

00:03:57 ◼   ► It's like I can't even reach it, you know?

00:03:59 ◼   ► I respect it.

00:04:00 ◼   ► Um

00:04:01 ◼   ► In terms of the curious what Apple Magic they've included, uh we're gonna get

00:04:06 ◼   ► to Federico's hands-on in a second, but Reading the reviews and talking to pe

00:04:11 ◼   ► other people who were there, like it seems like they just basically did what

00:04:15 ◼   ► you expect.

00:04:15 ◼   ► I don't think it's doing anything

00:04:18 ◼   ► super beyond what Windows is doing with Touch.

00:04:22 ◼   ► I think that's we'll get to it.

00:04:23 ◼   ► We'll get to it.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Fine.

00:04:24 ◼   ► We'll get to it.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Benjamin wrote in on the matter of touch screen IMAX and external displays, my

00:04:32 ◼   ► job at a male extraction desk, M A I L, not M A L.

00:04:37 ◼   ► We extract Men you gotta get them mail Mail extraction desk.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I don't know what that means either.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Uh by the way, I I would like to just give some real time

00:04:46 ◼   ► follow up.

00:04:46 ◼   ► It seems like our hosting provider doesn't city breakdowns anymore.

00:04:51 ◼   ► But now it looks like it's just like country.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Countries?

00:04:53 ◼   ► We gotta pay more for that stat probably.

00:04:55 ◼   ► Uh it's possible.

00:04:57 ◼   ► It's possible.

00:04:57 ◼   ► So I can't tell you.

00:04:59 ◼   ► What's the biggest country?

00:05:01 ◼   ► What do you think the biggest country is?

00:05:03 ◼   ► America.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:04 ◼   ► What's fourth biggest country?

00:05:06 ◼   ► Um Uh Germany.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Let me check by a specific episode rather than all time.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Oh I see.

00:05:12 ◼   ► So okay.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Stephen, what do you say?

00:05:15 ◼   ► I'm gonna guess

00:05:17 ◼   ► Australia.

00:05:18 ◼   ► It is Australia.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Germany is fifth.

00:05:21 ◼   ► So it goes US, UK, Canada, Australia, Germany.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Canada.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Then so I think somewhat surprisingly, but I love it, Sweden.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Huh.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Hi Sweden.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Hey.

00:05:32 ◼   ► If you're from Sweden listening, leave us a note in the feedback form.

00:05:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:35 ◼   ► There's quite a lot of them, so I expect to hear from some Swedes.

00:05:39 ◼   ► Yeah, someone someone's gotta do it.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I wonder what the the smallest country or like the least uh French Polynesia,

00:05:46 ◼   ► one person.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Well, I mean this was the whole thing about it was called the weirdest

00:05:50 ◼   ► fish

00:05:52 ◼   ► competition.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Um but right ne so on this is on episode six hundred and twenty

00:05:57 ◼   ► three is what I decided to take this from.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Um in Nigeria, well there's a bunch.

00:06:02 ◼   ► Nigeria, Bahrain, Uganda, Armenia, Angola, they're all got one.

00:06:08 ◼   ► There's lots of there's lots of just one.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Uh Bahamas is in there again.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Bobby there's lots of shows lots of places sorry, where we just have one

00:06:16 ◼   ► listener.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Name a place with two listeners.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:19 ◼   ► A place with two listeners would be

00:06:22 ◼   ► the Russian Federation or Egypt.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Or if you are those two people you should find each other and become

00:06:29 ◼   ► best friends or fall in love.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Panama.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Panama.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I'm sure they always appreciate when people do it.

00:06:38 ◼   ► It's only two people, so you can't really have many people too upset, is

00:06:41 ◼   ► it?

00:06:42 ◼   ► So we can handle two.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Come at us, Panama.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Take the hit, you know?

00:06:47 ◼   ► Yeah, we can say we can lose the two.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Sorry, Panama.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Wow.

00:06:52 ◼   ► We can, it's fine.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Back to Benjamin.

00:06:55 ◼   ► He's extracting mails at his desk.

00:06:57 ◼   ► He uses a Windows touch display on a VASA mount.

00:07:01 ◼   ► We use touch as another input method to hit large buttons for categorizing the

00:07:05 ◼   ► parts of the correspondence.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Is Benjamin a spy?

00:07:09 ◼   ► I also see these kinds of use cases at doctor's offices frequently.

00:07:13 ◼   ► So I read this uh feedback several days ago and then I went to

00:07:18 ◼   ► an appointment.

00:07:19 ◼   ► I'm doing PT right now because I got this thing going on.

00:07:22 ◼   ► And what is the thing?

00:07:23 ◼   ► Uh I have I strained my right calf and like it's just not getting

00:07:27 ◼   ► better.

00:07:28 ◼   ► So I'm doing PT and they're gonna like dry needle me tomorrow.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Just I don't know what that means.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Google it.

00:07:33 ◼   ► They stick a bunch of needles in you.

00:07:34 ◼   ► I don't like the sound of it, so I'm not gonna Google it.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Uh you you don't want to do it yourself.

00:07:38 ◼   ► I'm going to a professional.

00:07:39 ◼   ► Can you get wet needled?

00:07:41 ◼   ► Um I think it's a good way to transmit things.

00:07:45 ◼   ► You want them to need to be dry.

00:07:47 ◼   ► If it's called dry needling, there must be a wet needling.

00:07:49 ◼   ► It does it does lend itself to that.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Um Right?

00:07:52 ◼   ► Because otherwise you just call it needling.

00:07:54 ◼   ► I will ask why they call it that and I will report back.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Please do, actually.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Um and anyways, in the like the the the PT space is like a

00:08:03 ◼   ► gym, right?

00:08:03 ◼   ► Like it's a bunch of different stations and people doing different things.

00:08:06 ◼   ► And they had a touch screen, some sort of all in one PC thing.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Um and they were like using it like just tapping away.

00:08:15 ◼   ► So it is a thing.

00:08:17 ◼   ► People like touch screens.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:19 ◼   ► I don't when Apple's gonna do it with the iMac and and desktops, but

00:08:22 ◼   ► um I think I think it it will spread everywhere eventually, like we talked

00:08:25 ◼   ► about.

00:08:26 ◼   ► It it's gonna happen.

00:08:27 ◼   ► I mean it's just gonna become too hard to not have a touch screen.

00:08:30 ◼   ► I think so.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Up next, iPhone Duo.

00:08:33 ◼   ► Mike, you wanna take the first one?

00:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah, Rob wrote in and said, I went to my local Apple store on

00:08:37 ◼   ► launch day after missing out on the pre order lottery and overheard an employee

00:08:41 ◼   ► saying we had a few this morning but no more left.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Other two terabyte models, but no one is stupid enough to buy that.

00:08:48 ◼   ► I went over and said, I'm stupid and got my duo day one.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I respect Rob so much and I I like I love that.

00:08:55 ◼   ► Good good on you, Rob this is precisely what I would have done.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:59 ◼   ► I mean I am curious, do you have any Italian relatives in your in

00:09:03 ◼   ► your family?

00:09:04 ◼   ► Because that seems like that seems like a very Federico move to me.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Like you just overhear that and you go there and say, I'm stupid.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:09:12 ◼   ► I'm stupid.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:14 ◼   ► And uh I mean, you know, everybody knows if you buy a two terabyte

00:09:17 ◼   ► iPhone duo, you just need to commit to that thing, right, Steven?

00:09:22 ◼   ► Um or you return it when your two hundred fifty six gig one comes

00:09:26 ◼   ► in.

00:09:27 ◼   ► How irresponsible.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Okay, so you're you're can I have c I don't know if this is

00:09:33 ◼   ► in the the the iPhone Duo section here, but just quick check in with

00:09:37 ◼   ► everyone.

00:09:38 ◼   ► We're like at a couple of weeks in iPhone Duo now.

00:09:42 ◼   ► I mean I know I think we maybe not Federico, but I I believe

00:09:45 ◼   ► me and Steven had the question of like, is this is this the phone

00:09:48 ◼   ► for us?

00:09:49 ◼   ► How are you all feeling about that question right now?

00:09:52 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I mean big big time.

00:09:55 ◼   ► Yes.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Steven, how are you feeling?

00:09:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I think what is it?

00:10:01 ◼   ► What is that sound?

00:10:02 ◼   ► Because I don't I don't think it's the phone for me.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Like

00:10:06 ◼   ► I showed it to somebody last night, like a friend of mine who um

00:10:09 ◼   ► he's like, Oh, I was hoping you'd with you like when I saw him.

00:10:12 ◼   ► And he's like, What's what do you think?

00:10:13 ◼   ► And I was like, I don't like it's taking me so much time to

00:10:16 ◼   ► form like a cohesive opinion about this thing, but the more time I spend

00:10:20 ◼   ► with it

00:10:22 ◼   ► the more I think it may not be for me.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And I actually put my ESIM back in my back in on through.

00:10:30 ◼   ► I put my ESIM through my 18th Pro.

00:10:33 ◼   ► What?

00:10:34 ◼   ► And um

00:10:35 ◼   ► inspired it right through right through the screen.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So I've been back on my pro for I don't know, like just uh

00:10:42 ◼   ► I mean just like last last night when I got home and then this

00:10:44 ◼   ► morning.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Uh one, it feels like a banana phone.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Like it is ridiculous.

00:10:48 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:10:49 ◼   ► When I use the air, right?

00:10:50 ◼   ► Because I use the air for widgets mist.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Oh the air's even taller.

00:10:53 ◼   ► I think it feels like a surfboard.

00:10:55 ◼   ► I feel like I might knock people over if I go too close to

00:10:58 ◼   ► them.

00:10:58 ◼   ► It's ridiculous.

00:11:00 ◼   ► So we'll we'll we will see.

00:11:02 ◼   ► Uh

00:11:04 ◼   ► I could not be more in love with this iPhone.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I I I just I look at it sometimes and I'm like, Oh look

00:11:10 ◼   ► at you.

00:11:11 ◼   ► I love you.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I how I feel about this iPhone.

00:11:13 ◼   ► It's unbelievable.

00:11:14 ◼   ► I I can't remember the uh a time when I enjoyed using an iPhone

00:11:18 ◼   ► so much.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Like I think this thing is just like as close to perfect as it

00:11:23 ◼   ► could be.

00:11:23 ◼   ► It's not perfect because I want a better camera.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Um and I'm I'm thinking about how to handle that best in my life

00:11:30 ◼   ► but if the experience of using this thing is just it's unparalleled, I think.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I love this device.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Like I am using it so much.

00:11:41 ◼   ► I'm using it for work, which is which is a whole thing.

00:11:44 ◼   ► I I I just feel like it the iPad is up obviously suffering because

00:11:50 ◼   ► of it.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Yeah, as it should.

00:11:54 ◼   ► He knows what it did.

00:11:56 ◼   ► He knows what he did.

00:11:59 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:59 ◼   ► It just feels like I'm finding the balance between I I use it closed

00:12:04 ◼   ► all a lot of the t yes, yes.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And I do not feel like I'm having a bad experience.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Like I it doesn't feel like that at all.

00:12:12 ◼   ► No, it just feels like a very focused device.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Yep.

00:12:15 ◼   ► I

00:12:17 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:18 ◼   ► It it it is a great conversation starter with people.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Also, you know, that helps.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Um, I don't know.

00:12:27 ◼   ► It just feels like it's I'm possible, I I'm getting more than I was

00:12:31 ◼   ► hoping for, is what I'm trying to say.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Do y'all feel weird opening it in public?

00:12:37 ◼   ► No.

00:12:38 ◼   ► I've started doing it now.

00:12:41 ◼   ► I've started doing it now.

00:12:43 ◼   ► And I'm fine with it.

00:12:45 ◼   ► Like I I I was on a train the other day and I needed

00:12:48 ◼   ► and I j I I just needed to have two apps.

00:12:51 ◼   ► Like I needed to do something.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Like look send an email and check some information.

00:12:55 ◼   ► And it's like I can either commit to this right now and open this

00:12:58 ◼   ► phone up or I can continue living the life that I lived before.

00:13:01 ◼   ► It's like no, I live a new life now, I'm a new man and

00:13:03 ◼   ► I open my phone and I put the two apps side by side and

00:13:06 ◼   ► I just did what I needed to do.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Then I closed it again and carried on with my life.

00:13:10 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:13:11 ◼   ► I I also have not had one person ask me about it yet.

00:13:16 ◼   ► I feel like everyone I know is having people ask them questions.

00:13:20 ◼   ► I have not had a single person ask me anything about this phone.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Maybe I've just not been in an environment where that would happen yet.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Like maybe just like public transport is just not where that's happening.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Or maybe or you don't give off an approachable vaccine.

00:13:34 ◼   ► I don't think I do.

00:13:35 ◼   ► I I I d I don't think that I do give off an approachable

00:13:38 ◼   ► Federico and I we we look Coding.

00:13:42 ◼   ► And kind?

00:13:44 ◼   ► And I'm just like grizzled and uh uh tired and no one wants to

00:13:49 ◼   ► talk to me.

00:13:50 ◼   ► But honestly, I'm fine with that.

00:13:52 ◼   ► And maybe that's why

00:13:54 ◼   ► like I would probably Would prefer not to have that interaction.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So maybe that is the energy I put out into the world, you know?

00:14:03 ◼   ► Maybe

00:14:04 ◼   ► supposed man of the people.

00:14:06 ◼   ► I'm a man of the people.

00:14:09 ◼   ► As long as the people stay away.

00:14:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I am a man of the people.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I am not a man for the people, I guess, is what I'll say.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Right?

00:14:17 ◼   ► Like I will I will stand up for the people, right?

00:14:20 ◼   ► I will I will make sure that the people get what they need, but

00:14:23 ◼   ► like the people don't have to come and get it from me.

00:14:26 ◼   ► I will give it to them, you know?

00:14:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Sure.

00:14:29 ◼   ► An anonymous person wrote in and said, mere minutes into the most recent episode,

00:14:34 ◼   ► I heard the tangible pain in Steven's voice when he mentioned being first in

00:14:37 ◼   ► line for the iPhone duo.

00:14:39 ◼   ► As a sixteen year veteran of Apple retail, the celebration so like the clapping

00:14:44 ◼   ► that they do began with my first day from core to store with being

00:14:49 ◼   ► clapped in by my new team.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Since then I have felt that exact twinge of embarrassment every time we've clapped

00:14:55 ◼   ► when opening the doors.

00:14:56 ◼   ► For a short while there was a reprieve, but alas the clapping has returned

00:15:01 ◼   ► with the iPhone duo.

00:15:02 ◼   ► I reckon Angela Arrance got rid of the clapping.

00:15:05 ◼   ► I reckon that didn't fit with the clapple vibe.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:09 ◼   ► It wasn't luxury.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Not French enough.

00:15:12 ◼   ► Okay, sure.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Meet me a clapping.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Meet me a clapping.

00:15:15 ◼   ► Meet me a clapple.

00:15:17 ◼   ► Clapple?

00:15:18 ◼   ► Clapple, that's what they should call it.

00:15:20 ◼   ► The Clapple store.

00:15:23 ◼   ► Oh man.

00:15:24 ◼   ► That's Brian wrote in and said the pop socket mag safe kick out grip

00:15:29 ◼   ► and stand has been working well on my duo.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Holds it up well enough even in unfolded or tablet mode.

00:15:35 ◼   ► And of course the pop socket makes holding the duo a joy.

00:15:38 ◼   ► I bought one of these.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Um I also bought a product that I think most people would like if

00:15:44 ◼   ► they were going to consider this, which is the pop PopSocket Low Pro.

00:15:49 ◼   ► This is a quite clever product from from PopSocket.

00:15:54 ◼   ► It is their answer to the O snap.

00:15:57 ◼   ► O snap.

00:15:57 ◼   ► Right, which which people seem to like.

00:15:59 ◼   ► This is a PopSocket which is Essentially as flat as can be to your

00:16:04 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:16:05 ◼   ► It it doesn't pop out like a regular pop socket.

00:16:08 ◼   ► It's kind of this like weird plastic flangey thing.

00:16:13 ◼   ► I really don't like it because I'm very used to how pop socket feel

00:16:17 ◼   ► but it also has this ring that you can pop out which will hold

00:16:21 ◼   ► an iPhone up and it will hold up a duo.

00:16:23 ◼   ► The one that I have which is and which is the one uh that

00:16:26 ◼   ► Brian is recommending it's basically the pop socket that I have but you can

00:16:30 ◼   ► flip it down and so it creates like a full on kickstand and yeah,

00:16:36 ◼   ► it absolutely works to to prop up the iPhone Duo when unfolded.

00:16:41 ◼   ► So I'm very happy with this one 'cause it's just like the mag safe

00:16:44 ◼   ► uh the mag safe pop socket that I'm used to, but now with a

00:16:49 ◼   ► a new kickstand.

00:16:50 ◼   ► By the way, the the low profile one, one of the things that people

00:16:53 ◼   ► like about it is you can charge with it on where I have to

00:16:56 ◼   ► take it off to charge mine with MacSafe.

00:16:59 ◼   ► So But there you go.

00:17:01 ◼   ► Two options.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Two pop socket options.

00:17:03 ◼   ► Does it get warm with the low profile one?

00:17:06 ◼   ► I've never I've never You haven't tried it, okay I have it but I

00:17:09 ◼   ► immediately was like, Yeah, I don't like this.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:12 ◼   ► Because you know it's I was just thinking like it it does create some

00:17:15 ◼   ► amount of distance.

00:17:16 ◼   ► I will say I was pleased.

00:17:18 ◼   ► I'm using a very old Studio neat material dock.

00:17:23 ◼   ► Like they don't even make them anymore.

00:17:24 ◼   ► But the one I have, they haven't made a long time.

00:17:27 ◼   ► And when I I don't know what phone it was, maybe like the 15

00:17:32 ◼   ► Pro or 60, something, some phone, the camera bump interfered.

00:17:36 ◼   ► And so I 3D printed like a shim to go under the MagSafe puck,

00:17:40 ◼   ► like in between the wood and the bottom of the puck.

00:17:43 ◼   ► And the duo fits on it.

00:17:45 ◼   ► But I like when I first got the duo and I was like going

00:17:48 ◼   ► to bed, I was like, oh, like is this even gonna fit on here.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Um but yeah you may end up you know because these these things are

00:17:55 ◼   ► going to be shipping forever, right?

00:17:56 ◼   ► A lot of people don't have theirs yet.

00:17:57 ◼   ► It like for instance my stand-up charger which I think it Belkin makes on

00:18:02 ◼   ► the it's on the end of my desk.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Like the duo's fine on it, but I don't love the way it sort

00:18:09 ◼   ► of hangs there.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And so your charging situation may need to be tweaked a little bit if

00:18:14 ◼   ► you move to this phone because of the different dimensions.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:17 ◼   ► And I really do want if you've been in an Apple store, they have

00:18:20 ◼   ► like that double wide

00:18:23 ◼   ► uh stand.

00:18:24 ◼   ► So like it doesn't Yeah, how is what is going on with that?

00:18:27 ◼   ► I well they're how is they're displaying them open, right?

00:18:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:31 ◼   ► What has it got?

00:18:32 ◼   ► But was it got extra magnets in it?

00:18:33 ◼   ► Like what is going on?

00:18:34 ◼   ► So I tried when I was at the Apple store, I tried figuring that

00:18:38 ◼   ► out because there are magnets I think on the the front display, like in

00:18:42 ◼   ► that part of the chassis to help snap it shut.

00:18:44 ◼   ► But I couldn't tell if the stand was grabbing those magnets.

00:18:48 ◼   ► It felt like maybe a little bit, but 'cause if you if you like

00:18:52 ◼   ► if like with my Belkin one, if I if they have a duo opened,

00:18:55 ◼   ► it sags.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Maybe it's just got like a grippy Maybe texture on it or something.

00:19:02 ◼   ► But if I keep this phone like uh you know, that that may be

00:19:05 ◼   ► an option.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Although when it's closed you get um the standby mode, which I really like.

00:19:09 ◼   ► So Yeah.

00:19:10 ◼   ► I don't I have yet to find a scenario where I need to charge

00:19:14 ◼   ► it while it's open.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Maybe if you were like watching something, I don't.

00:19:20 ◼   ► But I'm not gonna be charging it.

00:19:22 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:19:22 ◼   ► Then I feel like anyways.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I've n I've not come across that yet.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Maybe soon.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Maybe soon.

00:19:29 ◼   ► Josiah, not your uh man of a son now, which is incredible stuff.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Incredible stuff wrote in and said I was listening to talk about people know

00:19:39 ◼   ► this phone and thinking I haven't had that experience yet.

00:19:41 ◼   ► So it's like people are approaching you.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Uh I was in line at a drive in to pick up a drive-thru,

00:19:46 ◼   ► sorry, drive-in.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Pick up my coffee.

00:19:48 ◼   ► The guy handing the coffee uh caught me folding it and instantly recognized it

00:19:52 ◼   ► and asked me a bunch of questions about it which I do not mind

00:19:54 ◼   ► at all.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:56 ◼   ► I had a a similar retail experience where I tried to use Apple Pay

00:20:02 ◼   ► and it failed.

00:20:03 ◼   ► Like it was an issue with like their end, but the girl noticed the

00:20:07 ◼   ► phone like and she was like, Oh, is that is that the folding one?

00:20:11 ◼   ► I was like, Yes, here it is.

00:20:13 ◼   ► And then I had to pay with my card because I couldn't get Apple

00:20:16 ◼   ► Pay to work.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Which was embarrassing.

00:20:19 ◼   ► I don't think it was the phone though.

00:20:22 ◼   ► That's my whole story.

00:20:23 ◼   ► So cool story.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Can you imagine the people like two people in some countries tune into this?

00:20:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:31 ◼   ► All right, Federico, you went to the Apple event in LA.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And we at first we gotta talk about this this picture that's going around

00:20:41 ◼   ► of you blogging on your duo with a keyboard.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Can you walk us through this setup?

00:20:46 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:47 ◼   ► So this is the this is one of the this is lounge one it's

00:20:51 ◼   ► one of the hands-on areas that uh one of the press areas that they

00:20:54 ◼   ► had so this is the one on the ground floor right next to the

00:20:58 ◼   ► main hands on area that they had we this was just after the after

00:21:04 ◼   ► the event, after the hands-on.

00:21:06 ◼   ► We just sat down, it was a table with me, Chris Lawley, John Gruber,

00:21:10 ◼   ► and Chance Miller.

00:21:13 ◼   ► And I wanted to start writing some first impressions about the the new MacBook.

00:21:19 ◼   ► And I came prepared.

00:21:22 ◼   ► So I had my computer in my bag, but I wanted to try this.

00:21:26 ◼   ► I wanted to try my iPhone Duo portable work setup.

00:21:30 ◼   ► So that's my modded Apple kickstand that I cut in half because I didn't

00:21:35 ◼   ► have the front cover.

00:21:37 ◼   ► And the duo, and the you cannot see there's an Apple pencil next to

00:21:41 ◼   ► the keyboard and an Apple Magic keyboard and I just started blogging away in

00:21:45 ◼   ► Notion like that.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Um Gruber was very confused, as you can tell by the look on his

00:21:51 ◼   ► face.

00:21:51 ◼   ► I also like that he's he's getting ready to take a photo of everyone's

00:21:55 ◼   ► taking pictures of you in this image and he I can tell what he's

00:21:58 ◼   ► about to do.

00:21:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I have experience with John that he takes lots of photos.

00:22:02 ◼   ► Yes, he takes photos.

00:22:03 ◼   ► He takes lots of photos, which I think is really nice.

00:22:05 ◼   ► He sent me some p nice pictures that he put W D Cic It

00:22:08 ◼   ► takes some really good like black and white uh portrait photos, yes, yes.

00:22:12 ◼   ► I was actually interrupted a bunch of times when I was working by Apple

00:22:17 ◼   ► PR people just coming over and be like, Federico, what are you doing?

00:22:20 ◼   ► This is incredible, uh slash this is crazy.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Uh Uh and also like just a uh other, you know, creators there.

00:22:27 ◼   ► There was one guy at the table being like, I'm sorry to interrupt you,

00:22:30 ◼   ► man, I just wanted to say this is wild what you're doing.

00:22:33 ◼   ► Like it's super fun.

00:22:34 ◼   ► What would people think was weird?

00:22:36 ◼   ► Was it the case, the keyboard or both?

00:22:39 ◼   ► The whole thing.

00:22:39 ◼   ► The whole thing.

00:22:41 ◼   ► The whole thing.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:42 ◼   ► And obviously I'm happy to talk to people.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I'm happy to explain my setup.

00:22:45 ◼   ► So it was really fun.

00:22:47 ◼   ► And that article that I published it was mostly I think everything except the

00:22:51 ◼   ► conclusion mostly written on the duo, and then I edited it on the MacBook

00:22:56 ◼   ► Pro because it's just, you know, easier when you need to check typos and

00:23:01 ◼   ► add links and images to do that on a Mac.

00:23:03 ◼   ► So I did that on my MacBook Pro.

00:23:05 ◼   ► You can't get root typos done on a duo is what you're saying.

00:23:08 ◼   ► True, true, true.

00:23:09 ◼   ► I uh I finished the article upstairs.

00:23:12 ◼   ► So this this event was like it it was this building like m m

00:23:17 ◼   ► multiple floors.

00:23:18 ◼   ► It's like four floors plus the rooftop.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Um they had this other lounge area upstairs with like a like a like

00:23:26 ◼   ► a like a bar where you could get a drink or like some water

00:23:29 ◼   ► and some snacks.

00:23:31 ◼   ► And And uh outside they had like this patio where you can just sit

00:23:35 ◼   ► down and get some work done.

00:23:37 ◼   ► And this is also where in another corner of the patio you could reserve

00:23:42 ◼   ► some personalized merch.

00:23:44 ◼   ► Uh with like I got like a hoodie with the with the finder logo

00:23:48 ◼   ► on it.

00:23:48 ◼   ► So sick.

00:23:49 ◼   ► And a tote bag.

00:23:51 ◼   ► Um sick.

00:23:52 ◼   ► So we sit in this corner of the patio under the sun because all

00:23:56 ◼   ► the spots in the shades were occupied.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And they add these like fake trees in like this l like these fake

00:24:04 ◼   ► potted plants that they put on the patio.

00:24:08 ◼   ► And at some point uh there's a gust of wind, and one of these

00:24:11 ◼   ► trees falls down and nearly hits one of the people that were sitting next

00:24:15 ◼   ► to me.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a whole thing.

00:24:18 ◼   ► And uh and and so we we we got the tree back up and

00:24:22 ◼   ► uh and it was quite funny.

00:24:24 ◼   ► It could have been it could have been bad.

00:24:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:27 ◼   ► It could have been bad.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Or just like really embarrassing, you know, like a a uh a a at

00:24:32 ◼   ► a low level.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Like the you know, the tree falls on you and you make a noise

00:24:35 ◼   ► and everyone turns around and you've got the tree on you.

00:24:37 ◼   ► It's just like not a great it's not a great scene when you're at

00:24:40 ◼   ► an event full of like influences, right?

00:24:42 ◼   ► Like you wanna you wanna feel like you don't really wanna draw that level

00:24:45 ◼   ► of attention to yourself, I feel like.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Because people are gonna start taking pictures of you.

00:24:49 ◼   ► You know, it's gonna be like a whole thing.

00:24:50 ◼   ► You don't need that.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Look yeah.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Look at this blogger getting crushed by a tree, you know.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Where's the rest of his kickstand case?

00:24:57 ◼   ► Didn't get hit by the tree?

00:25:00 ◼   ► You know.

00:25:02 ◼   ► So I knew there was a question, Steven.

00:25:04 ◼   ► Oh, I mean, you went.

00:25:06 ◼   ► It sounded it seemed cool.

00:25:08 ◼   ► Uh I got distracted.

00:25:09 ◼   ► I'll ask you about the blogging thing.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Um But uh but yeah, we're gonna get to your hands on.

00:25:15 ◼   ► I keep teasing it 'cause it's later in the outline.

00:25:17 ◼   ► But this ended up in follow-up somehow.

00:25:19 ◼   ► I don't it's not a cohesive outline this week, I guess.

00:25:21 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:25:23 ◼   ► I do have a capitalism alert though.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Uh-oh.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Everybody ready?

00:25:28 ◼   ► Yep.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Relay shirts are back.

00:25:31 ◼   ► If you go to the relay website and hit the store link in the

00:25:35 ◼   ► top navigation or the follow the link in the show notes.

00:25:38 ◼   ► We got some classics.

00:25:39 ◼   ► You can also just go to relay.fm slash store.

00:25:42 ◼   ► I couldn't remember if that worked and I was talking.

00:25:44 ◼   ► It does.

00:25:45 ◼   ► It also does.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Uh we got some classics that are back, refreshed we dropped the FM from

00:25:52 ◼   ► everything.

00:25:53 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:25:54 ◼   ► See ya.

00:25:54 ◼   ► That was never part of our name.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It was part of our name.

00:25:57 ◼   ► But uh yeah.

00:25:58 ◼   ► The transporter, the click wheel, the 90s shirt, which I'm

00:26:03 ◼   ► they're all back.

00:26:04 ◼   ► So go check.

00:26:04 ◼   ► 'em out.

00:26:05 ◼   ► They put on demand, so they're gonna just gonna be up.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Including the holiday shirt.

00:26:09 ◼   ► There is we do uh we have like a holiday t shirt in the

00:26:12 ◼   ► style of like an ugly sweatshirt.

00:26:14 ◼   ► You can go and get that in a bunch of styles too.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Uh you can get onesies if you have a little one, uh you can

00:26:20 ◼   ► do that.

00:26:20 ◼   ► Uh we got lots of stuff over there that you can go and check

00:26:23 ◼   ► out.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Good designs.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Also, as well as those, we have a lot of designs that we keep

00:26:27 ◼   ► on the store.

00:26:28 ◼   ► I'm actually wearing one of my very favorite t shirts that we have, which

00:26:32 ◼   ► is um it's called Ever Onward.

00:26:34 ◼   ► It is a riff of the relay logo in the IBM style.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I'm wearing that today.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Uh this we have a lot of great stuff over on the relay store

00:26:41 ◼   ► that you can go pick up.

00:26:42 ◼   ► That is very good.

00:26:45 ◼   ► That's the end of the capitalism alert.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Uh last week the reviews for the iPad Mini came out.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Uh friend of the show, John Voorhees had one.

00:26:57 ◼   ► He had a review over on Mac Stories.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Uh Jason also had a review together as well.

00:27:02 ◼   ► Um Wait, wasn't it this week?

00:27:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:07 ◼   ► You're right.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it was this week.

00:27:09 ◼   ► My word.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, right?

00:27:10 ◼   ► It was this week.

00:27:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Uh what it was like Tuesday?

00:27:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Yes.

00:27:14 ◼   ► We had a whole episode of upgrade that we held because of it.

00:27:17 ◼   ► I c you know, it's just like these things happen are happening.

00:27:20 ◼   ► So many things are happening.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I am struggling to keep track of it all, but nevertheless here we are.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Uh and I I feel like it pretty decent all around.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Like people have seem pretty excited about this iPad mini.

00:27:33 ◼   ► I think John and Jason came to similar spots of it as it's like

00:27:36 ◼   ► if you love the iPad mini, you're gonna love this, but also it's just

00:27:39 ◼   ► a really great iPad and it's like super powerful and capable and it's tiny

00:27:43 ◼   ► and it has all the features that you might want.

00:27:45 ◼   ► They both seem to not mind about the lack of promotion, which makes me

00:27:49 ◼   ► question both of them a little bit, but I also haven't tried it myself,

00:27:53 ◼   ► so I'm I'm not yet passing full judgment.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Um but yeah it seems seems like a nice thing.

00:27:58 ◼   ► I love that uh John did some AI benchmarks on it 'cause you know

00:28:03 ◼   ► Apple put two Juul core neural engines in it so you gotta do something

00:28:07 ◼   ► with it and he did it and then And that I respect that.

00:28:10 ◼   ► Uh but yeah, it seems pretty cool.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I am assuming that this is not a product for any of us though.

00:28:15 ◼   ► Like I can't maybe Steven actually, 'cause it's waterproof, so you might want it

00:28:19 ◼   ► for the bathtub.

00:28:20 ◼   ► It's it's waterproof and I turn promotion off.

00:28:23 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:28:24 ◼   ► That's true.

00:28:24 ◼   ► This is actually the perfect product for you.

00:28:27 ◼   ► I mean I I think I I I think I texted y'all like this

00:28:30 ◼   ► is the week of the year.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I think I need an iPad mini again, knowing that every time it ends

00:28:35 ◼   ► in hurt.

00:28:36 ◼   ► You're gonna get like a two terabyte one or something You know, you know.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Mike, I don't really appreciate that sort of humor from you.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:44 ◼   ► I mean, but it's true but like you did buy a two terabyte iPhone

00:28:47 ◼   ► Duo.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:50 ◼   ► So So

00:28:53 ◼   ► But I think John put it really nicely.

00:28:55 ◼   ► Just saying that like, you know, he he has an iPhone duo now, so

00:28:59 ◼   ► it's multiple small screen devices, but you know, I I think I I don't

00:29:04 ◼   ► have any desire for to I don't really feel like I need to use

00:29:08 ◼   ► any iPad right now.

00:29:09 ◼   ► Um especially not the the mini because the duo are so so close to

00:29:13 ◼   ► it in size, you know.

00:29:14 ◼   ► For sure.

00:29:16 ◼   ► I was very curious to how the sound was gonna be.

00:29:19 ◼   ► It looks so strange.

00:29:20 ◼   ► It doesn't have speaker grills anywhere.

00:29:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I there I don't know why, but like it to me it feels

00:29:27 ◼   ► like it's fake.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Like it looks like a knockoff apple product because it just doesn't look like

00:29:34 ◼   ► what I'm expecting.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Like there's like an uncanny valley to it a little bit.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Where it's like, Oh, well the sides should have holes in them and it

00:29:42 ◼   ► doesn't, so there must be something wrong here.

00:29:44 ◼   ► I think is what my brain is saying.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Um but I mean I'm sh I'm sure it is really lovely to to

00:29:50 ◼   ► just be this completely contained thing.

00:29:53 ◼   ► But it there's just this like weird it just does it just feels wrong

00:29:57 ◼   ► in a way which is funny.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it it seems like people say that it works, right?

00:30:03 ◼   ► That's that the speakers are behind the display and it seems fine.

00:30:07 ◼   ► You know, this is something the the home view, remember that thing?

00:30:10 ◼   ► I keep forgetting about it.

00:30:11 ◼   ► That's I that's coming.

00:30:13 ◼   ► It's coming.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Is it next?

00:30:16 ◼   ► No.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Next.

00:30:18 ◼   ► Oh next Friday?

00:30:19 ◼   ► Next Friday.

00:30:19 ◼   ► It's next Friday?

00:30:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Next Friday?

00:30:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:22 ◼   ► I think doesn't it have some some speakers behind the screen too?

00:30:26 ◼   ► Oh no, only the wall-mounted one.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Only the wall-mounted one.

00:30:29 ◼   ► So anyways.

00:30:29 ◼   ► And I don't think it's the same technology.

00:30:31 ◼   ► I think it's just there's just speakers behind the screen.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Um I don't know though.

00:30:35 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:30:35 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:30:36 ◼   ► But I I I I hope the water industrial resistance spreads to other parts

00:30:40 ◼   ► of the line.

00:30:41 ◼   ► And if the speakers work, that's great.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I'm still confused about why they need to do it, because the phone has

00:30:46 ◼   ► these things, it has speaker grills.

00:30:48 ◼   ► But I guess I guess they're what they need 'em.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I also really want to see the inside of this and see what these

00:30:54 ◼   ► look like.

00:30:55 ◼   ► And I guess they'll it'll get torn down by iFix at some point.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Oh, because it's does it comes out tomorrow, right?

00:31:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Uh yes, I think so they'll do the the tear down tomorrow, I guess.

00:31:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:07 ◼   ► But like what does it look like in there?

00:31:08 ◼   ► You know?

00:31:09 ◼   ► Yeah, what what's going on in there?

00:31:10 ◼   ► Is it just speakers pointed at the screen?

00:31:12 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Probably who knows?

00:31:14 ◼   ► Uh at this point with the iPhone duo, I don't think I'm ever gonna

00:31:17 ◼   ► be in the market for an iPad mini again, right?

00:31:20 ◼   ► I mean w w why would I like it would be the most unnecessary

00:31:26 ◼   ► purchase right now.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Um I think so.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And I think Apple knows which is and that's fine because not everybody's gonna

00:31:33 ◼   ► get an iPhone duo.

00:31:34 ◼   ► So No.

00:31:35 ◼   ► And like they are the price for getting in the door on these products

00:31:40 ◼   ► is very, very different, right?

00:31:41 ◼   ► Like yes the iPad mini gets quite pricey now, but It's like seven hundred

00:31:48 ◼   ► dollars compared to like two thousand dollars or whatever the duo starts at.

00:31:51 ◼   ► So that is quite a difference.

00:31:54 ◼   ► So like for some people it's like I would like a bigger screen.

00:31:56 ◼   ► I'm not gonna get a duo.

00:31:58 ◼   ► So I'll check out this new iPad mini.

00:32:00 ◼   ► It's got the same nanotexture, you know, it's like and it runs it actually

00:32:04 ◼   ► has proper full apps, right?

00:32:06 ◼   ► Like big iPad apps, like a thing.

00:32:08 ◼   ► And there's lots of them.

00:32:09 ◼   ► So there is lots of reasons that someone might pick this product, I think.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Um but yeah, it's uh it's interesting.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:32:15 ◼   ► You can buy a phone and an iPad mini, spend the same money.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Jason had a a a a good and I think interesting take in his

00:32:25 ◼   ► review about it, about the sort of the multitasking versus unitasking that the iPad

00:32:30 ◼   ► mini.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I think a lot of users look at the iPad mini and think, well,

00:32:33 ◼   ► I'm gonna get it as a reader, as a media device.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Um if you just need a reader, he points out like you can get

00:32:39 ◼   ► a whole like several Kindles for what this what this may cost.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Um and that even though it's the little iPad, it is fully capable of

00:32:51 ◼   ► multitasking.

00:32:52 ◼   ► And there are trade-offs of course with the screen size but that we shouldn't

00:32:57 ◼   ► just think about this as like a a one app at a time device.

00:33:02 ◼   ► And I think I think certainly with older iPad minis, that really was the

00:33:07 ◼   ► case.

00:33:07 ◼   ► I mean for a long time that's just how they all worked.

00:33:10 ◼   ► But I think even in my own mind, the iPad mini is still mostly

00:33:13 ◼   ► like a media tablet one at a time kind of experience.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Um but it doesn't but it doesn't have to be.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:21 ◼   ► If you're a pilot and you want to play a game and look at

00:33:24 ◼   ► the weather at the same time, you can.

00:33:26 ◼   ► You play flight control?

00:33:28 ◼   ► Yes.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Is that game still around?

00:33:30 ◼   ► No.

00:33:31 ◼   ► No, it was one of the games that got bought by EA and then

00:33:34 ◼   ► they killed it.

00:33:35 ◼   ► Oh yeah there are games that are like it though, but I've none of

00:33:38 ◼   ► them have really recaptured the magic magic for me.

00:33:41 ◼   ► It was so good.

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00:35:48 ◼   ► So we have a twenty seven point three beta or betas everywhere.

00:35:53 ◼   ► And they are kinda packed with features.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Um so first of all I wanted to know do you guys have the

00:36:00 ◼   ► twenty seven point three betas anywhere?

00:36:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Fun watch.

00:36:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Uh how about you, Steven?

00:36:08 ◼   ► Uh just the phone.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I have not put it on a watch yet.

00:36:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Um where should we start?

00:36:15 ◼   ► Like from maybe from Safari?

00:36:17 ◼   ► Let's start with the smaller things.

00:36:19 ◼   ► I think I think this the Safari stuff is is really interesting, but is

00:36:22 ◼   ► maybe smaller, less consequential, maybe less uh affecting for the human race.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Um Yeah.

00:36:29 ◼   ► So let's start there.

00:36:31 ◼   ► So we have the Apple take on vertical tabs in Safari.

00:36:35 ◼   ► This is a surprise to me.

00:36:37 ◼   ► This is surprising, but also like every other browser has them.

00:36:41 ◼   ► So you know, you gotta you gotta follow where the rest of the industry

00:36:45 ◼   ► is going.

00:36:46 ◼   ► This is a new mode in Safari settings where you can choose between the

00:36:49 ◼   ► top address bar and the uh like the the the top bar at the

00:36:54 ◼   ► the unified top bar at the bottom or the compact one.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Now there's vertical tabs as a third setting.

00:37:00 ◼   ► And the way that Apple has done it is obviously unsurprisingly different from what

00:37:05 ◼   ► you may see in other browsers, in the sense that you do not get

00:37:10 ◼   ► f le like a full-on sidebar with proper tabs.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Um, you get like this hybrid version uh that you can expand, but even

00:37:22 ◼   ► when you expand it, it's not gonna look like, say, I don't know, what

00:37:26 ◼   ► browser do people use?

00:37:27 ◼   ► Vivaldi that has vertical tabs or something.

00:37:30 ◼   ► Um Edge.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Edge.

00:37:33 ◼   ► I mean Edge has vertical tabs.

00:37:34 ◼   ► I know that.

00:37:35 ◼   ► So does Chronicles.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Okay, so by default, does it?

00:37:37 ◼   ► It's a strip of favicons.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:41 ◼   ► So you get just the i just the website icons by default and those

00:37:48 ◼   ► support tab groups and the automatic grouping of tabs that um sort of Apple

00:37:54 ◼   ► Intelligence does by default on iOS 27.

00:37:57 ◼   ► You can expand it.

00:38:00 ◼   ► There's a button at the bottom, at least on the iPhone Duo.

00:38:03 ◼   ► I think you can resize the sidebar on the iPad and the Mac with

00:38:06 ◼   ► the cursor.

00:38:07 ◼   ► And then you get the more regular tabs

00:38:12 ◼   ► that show you the website uh the webpage name and all of those things.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Um you have a separator between your pinned tabs and your other tabs.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Um it's not I would say it's not the it's not Apple's greatest design

00:38:31 ◼   ► ever for these tabs.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I hope that this is very much the beta one and also like the

00:38:38 ◼   ► beta one of a new opt-in feature that's like it's gonna gonna evolve over

00:38:42 ◼   ► time, I feel like, hopefully.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:45 ◼   ► Yeah, because I tr I mean I tried it on my duo and I

00:38:48 ◼   ► didn't really like it.

00:38:49 ◼   ► I felt like on the duo it was taking up too much space.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Interesting because I think on a on a on a device with the kind

00:38:58 ◼   ► of widescreen aspect ratio of the duo, it makes maybe more sense to have

00:39:03 ◼   ► tabs on the side in compact mode than say, you know, obviously you cannot

00:39:08 ◼   ► have you cannot have tabs at at the top, right, on the duo.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I do.

00:39:14 ◼   ► You do?

00:39:15 ◼   ► And and you like it even though the device is kind of short?

00:39:18 ◼   ► I'm I mean in the on open.

00:39:19 ◼   ► When in the in the compound open outside you can only have them on

00:39:23 ◼   ► the bottom.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:25 ◼   ► So yeah, the vertical tabs I should say are only for the inner display

00:39:29 ◼   ► on the duo.

00:39:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Uh but I'm just checking the Safari options again.

00:39:34 ◼   ► So when it's open.

00:39:35 ◼   ► You can only have the yeah.

00:39:37 ◼   ► That's it.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Yeah, you can have you like tabs at the top on the duo when

00:39:40 ◼   ► it's open?

00:39:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:39:44 ◼   ► Like a s like Safari on the Mac.

00:39:45 ◼   ► At least that's why I have it on the Mac.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:39:47 ◼   ► But Safari on the Mac you have more space

00:39:50 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, I I understand that, but also websites are made to be

00:39:54 ◼   ► scrolled down, right?

00:39:56 ◼   ► It's like that's my uh and maybe this is just like a me thing,

00:39:59 ◼   ► because I feel like I'm hearing a lot of people say what you're saying.

00:40:02 ◼   ► But to me, like if you're putting something on the side, you've kind of

00:40:06 ◼   ► squished the web page where naturally a webpage y you you scroll it vertically.

00:40:11 ◼   ► Like there's always stuff down there.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And so like I put it on the side and I found like I

00:40:16 ◼   ► went to a couple of websites with the when I had vertical tabs on

00:40:19 ◼   ► and it was giving me more of like the mobile view because it was

00:40:22 ◼   ► cutting it off a little bit and it's like ah I don't want this.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Uh I d I d that's not what I'm what I'm looking for.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Um and so I I went back to to to regular tabs.

00:40:32 ◼   ► But yeah I it I think it's great that they have it because I

00:40:35 ◼   ► know that people really like it.

00:40:36 ◼   ► But I I'm I'm just I'm not sure that this is a feature that

00:40:39 ◼   ► I really want.

00:40:42 ◼   ► Working on a on websites to like look good on the duo is tricky

00:40:47 ◼   ► because depending on like where your breakpoints are, like on five twelve pixels, the

00:40:52 ◼   ► breakpoint worked when it was open unless you have vertical tabs and then it

00:40:56 ◼   ► forced the mobile version on you.

00:40:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Which I don't.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Which I d yeah, I don't like that either, but I need to look

00:41:03 ◼   ► at that and see if there's there for my navigation, like the the the

00:41:06 ◼   ► iPad version of it.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:08 ◼   ► I have to say yours was the website where I know.

00:41:10 ◼   ► I know.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Yeah, you sent me a screenshot.

00:41:11 ◼   ► I know.

00:41:12 ◼   ► I don't want to call you out.

00:41:13 ◼   ► No, it's I don't know if people would say like that makes Steven a

00:41:15 ◼   ► bad web developer.

00:41:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:16 ◼   ► I don't know how web development works.

00:41:19 ◼   ► Well, you know it's built on a static site generator, so it's easy to

00:41:22 ◼   ► change.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Oh you gotta ask Hugo?

00:41:25 ◼   ► Hugo.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Fix it for me, please.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Hugo.

00:41:27 ◼   ► The the other thing that I have struggled with in my design is on

00:41:32 ◼   ► the outside screen, the side rail where like the controls are.

00:41:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:39 ◼   ► It picks up your

00:41:42 ◼   ► your like I forget what WebKit calls it, uh forgive me, but it's like

00:41:47 ◼   ► the print color.

00:41:50 ◼   ► I'm like Googling in the back because I I want to get the I

00:41:54 ◼   ► want to get the name right.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Anyways, you can set a color and it it is like the overflow color

00:41:59 ◼   ► on a site.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Like if you if you overscroll.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And if you use the compact tabs, it's what colors the UI.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And it puts that in the side rail.

00:42:09 ◼   ► And I guess that's okay for some apps if they use like a a

00:42:12 ◼   ► similar color.

00:42:13 ◼   ► But for mine, I was using the teal that is my top of my

00:42:17 ◼   ► sight.

00:42:17 ◼   ► And I thought it looked pretty bad on the outside screen.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:22 ◼   ► And so I decided to actually get rid of that and I use the

00:42:27 ◼   ► page brat background color now, which I think looks less good everywhere else, but

00:42:33 ◼   ► it it kind of works.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I I think it works better on the duo.

00:42:37 ◼   ► And so I just I I would like You should just be a gentleman

00:42:41 ◼   ► like me and just have one collar.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Yeah on your website.

00:42:44 ◼   ► Well I did play with the version and I was like I was just

00:42:46 ◼   ► so frustrated.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Like, what if I got rid of the teal?

00:42:48 ◼   ► Like, no, the teal is important.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Um, so I would like I think it's theme color, maybe Zoe said, but

00:42:54 ◼   ► I would like the duo to not do that.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Like, let me specify separately the over scroll theme color and then that side

00:43:02 ◼   ► rail color.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Uh they're working on it.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Ferry could you post about this on Mac Stories with the Jen Simmons post?

00:43:08 ◼   ► Uh about how they're looking at like making they're like looking up doing some

00:43:11 ◼   ► web kit changes.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Yes.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Like in general for the duo, 'cause it's like obviously the web is not

00:43:17 ◼   ► flowing as best as it possibly could on the duo.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And so like they're they're aware of it and they're looking at it and

00:43:23 ◼   ► and I'm sure that they'll they'll do some stuff.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I hope so, 'cause it it was just like I had a I had

00:43:27 ◼   ► to make a compromise and I really wasn't super thrilled with sort of any

00:43:31 ◼   ► of my options.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Um, you know, I I've tried again back to the topic at hand, I've

00:43:36 ◼   ► tried vertical tabs and I just I just can't get used to it.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Like I know it's better in a lot of ways, especially if you're me

00:43:43 ◼   ► and like I tend to have a lot of tabs open across a bunch

00:43:45 ◼   ► of windows.

00:43:46 ◼   ► But I'm just I guess it's like whatever it is, four hundred years of

00:43:49 ◼   ► experience of looking at the top of the window for my tabs that I

00:43:52 ◼   ► can't I think that's where I am.

00:43:54 ◼   ► It's like I I don't really feel like I need it and I'm so

00:43:57 ◼   ► used to this, I'm just not really uh interested in trying it.

00:44:00 ◼   ► Like like long term.

00:44:01 ◼   ► It's like I d I'm fine with my tabs.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I like my tabs being where they are.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:06 ◼   ► They also have um adaptive dark mode, which I like.

00:44:10 ◼   ► Uh I I I quite like that already.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Um and so i essentially th there were a bunch of uh Safari extensions

00:44:18 ◼   ► that did this noir was one of them.

00:44:20 ◼   ► Um where it it it does a pretty decent job, I've found where like

00:44:25 ◼   ► I'm I've I've noticed it being on and I'm not and and I I've

00:44:28 ◼   ► had it on and I'm not noticing it so much.

00:44:30 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:44:31 ◼   ► Like I feel like I'm I'm not like, Well, this something looks weird here,

00:44:34 ◼   ► you know?

00:44:35 ◼   ► Um, but there are just some websites that I've gone to that I know

00:44:38 ◼   ► don't have a dark mode implementation that now does.

00:44:41 ◼   ► And so I was like, okay, like I this is working.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Um and I think it's pretty nice.

00:44:45 ◼   ► I like the way that they've implemented it.

00:44:46 ◼   ► I like that you have, you know, in the ever expanding Safari menu which

00:44:51 ◼   ► is hidden under the address bar.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Uh you have options to turn off for a certain websites, like if you

00:44:56 ◼   ► want it to to not do the the dark theme.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Um I quite like it.

00:45:00 ◼   ► I think it's I think it's I think it's nicely done.

00:45:04 ◼   ► And then also Siri AI can now read the entire web page.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Uh let's talk about two of the other bigger things.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Can we start with audio intelligence and Siri Recap?

00:45:13 ◼   ► Sure.

00:45:14 ◼   ► So they've they've added the uh with Watch OS twenty seven three, they've added

00:45:18 ◼   ► the um audio intelligence features where one of them is a Siri recap, which

00:45:24 ◼   ► is you can double tap the crown and it will show you the last

00:45:28 ◼   ► fifteen seconds and it makes a fun little noise.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Um and then you have the is that recap or have I said that

00:45:35 ◼   ► wrong?

00:45:35 ◼   ► Is that No, that's uh Rewind or something?

00:45:38 ◼   ► It's got like a different name.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Rewind.

00:45:40 ◼   ► It's got a different name.

00:45:41 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:45:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:42 ◼   ► Recap is where

00:45:45 ◼   ► I need to just explain this in English, but it's so hard to do.

00:45:51 ◼   ► Where your watch is listening all the time to everything you're saying and all

00:46:00 ◼   ► of the audio that is around you all the time.

00:46:04 ◼   ► And it is transcribing it

00:46:09 ◼   ► passing it to the phone, I think.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And then the phone is deciding what to do with that transcript.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Now, the reason I say it like that is because when I say it

00:46:18 ◼   ► like that, it sounds really bad.

00:46:19 ◼   ► So Apple likes to say the audio is just flowing, right?

00:46:22 ◼   ► Like it's just like because they don't want people to think is that someone

00:46:29 ◼   ► can do something with that information, right?

00:46:31 ◼   ► Like because if you say your watch is listening to everything and transcribing everything

00:46:38 ◼   ► and then giving a summary to the user.

00:46:40 ◼   ► It's like, well, what happens to the recordings?

00:46:42 ◼   ► What happens to the transcriptions?

00:46:44 ◼   ► And Apple says they have there it doesn't happen, right?

00:46:47 ◼   ► There is no recording.

00:46:48 ◼   ► It's just doing the transcription and then the all the raw transcription is not

00:46:51 ◼   ► saved, right?

00:46:52 ◼   ► I expect is what's happening now.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And no one can ever get to it.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Now I trust all of that.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Like I d I do trust them when they say this, but it's awkward,

00:47:00 ◼   ► right?

00:47:00 ◼   ► It's like a thing to explain.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Now, I've had this on for a couple of days and It is it's

00:47:10 ◼   ► crazy.

00:47:11 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:47:13 ◼   ► It this is

00:47:15 ◼   ► very powerful.

00:47:17 ◼   ► It works very well and therefore is very strange.

00:47:21 ◼   ► It is a very strange thing to open Siri and be like, here is

00:47:27 ◼   ► an in a summary of an entire one hour conversation me and my wife

00:47:31 ◼   ► had.

00:47:32 ◼   ► Like and and yes, we did talk about all of these things and and

00:47:36 ◼   ► you are right that we did have this one conversation where we spoke both

00:47:40 ◼   ► about I'm gonna read the summary here, a public resistance of growing against AI

00:47:44 ◼   ► data centers, new agentic tools like Muse, concerns raised over future job losses and

00:47:50 ◼   ► also reading bedtime stories.

00:47:53 ◼   ► Is that what is that what you talk about with your wife?

00:47:56 ◼   ► Last night we did, yeah, that was a we had a big conversation about

00:47:59 ◼   ► last night.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Wow, yeah, really yeah, really m mature and interesting conversation.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:03 ◼   ► But it's uh but it that we did have that conversation last night.

00:48:06 ◼   ► And it was interesting too because uh we I um so one of the

00:48:10 ◼   ► things that is weird about this is if you're watching a YouTube video, that

00:48:14 ◼   ► YouTube video will definitely be summarized as if it was a conversation you had,

00:48:19 ◼   ► right?

00:48:20 ◼   ► But if you watch it on your phone, right?

00:48:23 ◼   ► So like the in this summary I showed Adina a really great video that

00:48:27 ◼   ► I think people should watch, and I'll put a link in the show notes

00:48:29 ◼   ► it's video by Hank Green called The Last Normal Year, which I I really

00:48:32 ◼   ► love this video.

00:48:33 ◼   ► I showed her this video during this conversation, and it says at the bottom,

00:48:37 ◼   ► play during this conversation, the last normal year from YouTube.

00:48:41 ◼   ► So like it knows that.

00:48:42 ◼   ► It doesn't transcribe that because it knows it was a video.

00:48:46 ◼   ► But like I had this and many people had this.

00:48:48 ◼   ► I watched Steven Robles's really great video about these new features.

00:48:52 ◼   ► And then the first Siri recap that I got was a recap of Steven's

00:48:56 ◼   ► video.

00:48:58 ◼   ► But here's something really

00:49:01 ◼   ► wild that happened to me with this feature.

00:49:04 ◼   ► I was on a train yesterday and somebody was having a very loud conversation

00:49:11 ◼   ► on the phone that I thought they should not be having in public.

00:49:15 ◼   ► It was about they appeared to work in maybe a pharmacy and they were

00:49:19 ◼   ► talking about medicine that was left out and it wasn't refrigerated.

00:49:25 ◼   ► And they were maybe unsure as to whether any of this medicine was given

00:49:30 ◼   ► to people.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Okay, good.

00:49:34 ◼   ► I'm like, wow, you should not be having this conversation.

00:49:37 ◼   ► A little while later my phone tells me Fridge temperature and vaccine spoilage

00:49:43 ◼   ► Fridge temperature rising since Thursday afternoon.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Flu vaccines left unsealed, rendering them unusable.

00:49:50 ◼   ► Readings fluctuated between thirteen point eight and thirty three degrees Celsius, two flu vaccines

00:49:56 ◼   ► left unsealed on the shelf.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Large warning note placed on fridge instructing not to use.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Patients must be informed regarding spoiled vaccines.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Now

00:50:07 ◼   ► A strange thing, right?

00:50:08 ◼   ► Where it's like now my phone,

00:50:11 ◼   ► the audio flowed through my phone and transcribed this and gave it to me.

00:50:15 ◼   ► Now there's no identifying information in this, right?

00:50:17 ◼   ► Like I don't know if people don't know that, like there's no speaker detection.

00:50:21 ◼   ► It doesn't.

00:50:22 ◼   ► It's just like, here it is.

00:50:26 ◼   ► But it's like gets into this interesting thing, right?

00:50:28 ◼   ► Where now, when 27.3 comes out, every watch near this podcast person

00:50:36 ◼   ► is taking note of this conversation.

00:50:40 ◼   ► But then there is the question of, well, I don't think that this person

00:50:43 ◼   ► should have been having this conversation on speakerphone in public anyway.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Is my view on that.

00:50:49 ◼   ► Like I feel like that was a conversation that should not have been had

00:50:53 ◼   ► very loudly with the other party on speakerphone on a train in front of

00:50:58 ◼   ► other people.

00:50:58 ◼   ► You shouldn't be having loud conversations on a train period.

00:51:01 ◼   ► Yes.

00:51:02 ◼   ► But and so that but then it's like when I can imagine people like,

00:51:05 ◼   ► Oh, the other watches are transcribing us because yes, but people are also listening

00:51:09 ◼   ► anyway.

00:51:10 ◼   ► So it's maybe it's not but anyway, that was a weird thing that happened.

00:51:14 ◼   ► Uh it was a funny thing that happened.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Uh it was particularly weird like it was funny because I I messaged Adina

00:51:19 ◼   ► and I was like, You will not believe this conversation I'm hearing this person

00:51:21 ◼   ► have and also let's not get our flu vaccines from this pharmacy.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Uh

00:51:28 ◼   ► and and uh um and and then a little while later it just popped

00:51:32 ◼   ► up on my phone and I sent it to her and she was like,

00:51:35 ◼   ► Wow, and this has been really interesting because I've been showing it is this

00:51:37 ◼   ► to Adina and she's like, This is actually really cool.

00:51:41 ◼   ► And I'm like, I agree with you.

00:51:43 ◼   ► I think people are gonna feel very weird about this feature, but I like

00:51:47 ◼   ► it.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Something Adina said, which I'm not sure how I feel about this.

00:51:50 ◼   ► She's like, Oh, this will be good for arguments

00:51:53 ◼   ► Oh it's like it's it's like that episode of Black Mirror.

00:51:57 ◼   ► Like what's it called?

00:51:58 ◼   ► Like uh total not total recall, but something like that.

00:52:01 ◼   ► Yes.

00:52:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:02 ◼   ► But like, you know, because she's like, we c you know, it's like, oh,

00:52:05 ◼   ► was something said?

00:52:05 ◼   ► And I was like, well, it doesn't say who said something.

00:52:07 ◼   ► She's like, well, that doesn't matter.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Sometimes you just need to know.

00:52:10 ◼   ► Did someone say this thing to someone else?

00:52:12 ◼   ► But there's also I'm having like hilarious ones to me where it's like, uh,

00:52:16 ◼   ► where is well one, I went to see my barber and so the entire

00:52:20 ◼   ► conversation is summed up with the heading relationships, travel and grooming.

00:52:24 ◼   ► So you've got that going on for you.

00:52:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:52:26 ◼   ► Um there was bedtime story and childcare routine.

00:52:30 ◼   ► So uh reading bedtime stories and rhyming books of Sophia, changing nappy and settling

00:52:35 ◼   ► down late for sleep, and you got r red rhyming lists of food, clothing,

00:52:39 ◼   ► and household items discussed zoo animals sent us pets from a book.

00:52:43 ◼   ► So it's like it's it's summarizing the the books we're reading.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Uh now look, I n you can set this up, but there's like some

00:52:50 ◼   ► pretty simple but good privacy controls, right?

00:52:52 ◼   ► Where you c you can just turn it on and off from your watch

00:52:54 ◼   ► whenever you want.

00:52:55 ◼   ► You can say don't record during this period of time and don't record in

00:52:58 ◼   ► these locations or whatever.

00:52:59 ◼   ► And it's not record, it's like whatever they say it is, right?

00:53:03 ◼   ► Don't don't work.

00:53:04 ◼   ► But I'm leaving on right now because I'm really interested.

00:53:09 ◼   ► I just got one for my therapy session.

00:53:10 ◼   ► I had today.

00:53:11 ◼   ► I won't be reading the summary of that one, but like it definitely got

00:53:14 ◼   ► all of that.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Um i it so that's there.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Uh and and I know what's gonna be super weird for me is the

00:53:21 ◼   ► one person podcasts that it's gonna be transcribing.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Whenever I'm on a show, my my phone is just gonna be having uh

00:53:30 ◼   ► just understanding everything that only I said.

00:53:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:33 ◼   ► This is a fascinating feature.

00:53:35 ◼   ► I have no idea what people are gonna think about it at large, but

00:53:40 ◼   ► it absolutely works and it works quite well.

00:53:43 ◼   ► I can tell you that even though I can use it,

00:53:47 ◼   ► when I turned it on, it went crazy because Italian is not a supported

00:53:52 ◼   ► language.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Yeah yeah.

00:53:55 ◼   ► And so I it it's it is technically available but unusable for me at

00:54:01 ◼   ► the moment.

00:54:01 ◼   ► I wonder if they'll do and I reckon they will, right?

00:54:03 ◼   ► Because they have precedent with this, the like multi language support.

00:54:06 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I think so.

00:54:08 ◼   ► But it's like you gotta start somewhere and that is so edge casey they're

00:54:11 ◼   ► not gonna start with that.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I really don't know what to think in terms of how people will react?

00:54:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Like the public, like what happens when the first TikTok gets really popular and

00:54:26 ◼   ► it's from somebody who says, Did you know that I any Apple Watch could

00:54:29 ◼   ► be listening and transcribing you right now.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Like 'cause the thing is now, your your your phone is listening to you.

00:54:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Like it is.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Now, like there are so many caveats and also what people mean when they

00:54:44 ◼   ► say that is then the advertising is but it's not that.

00:54:48 ◼   ► Yeah, but like I feel like I feel like we were doing a pretty

00:54:53 ◼   ► good job.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Pretty good this maybe an exaggeration.

00:54:56 ◼   ► We were doing a decent job

00:54:59 ◼   ► trying to convince and explain to people that our phones were not listening to

00:55:03 ◼   ► us.

00:55:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:04 ◼   ► Even though you absolutely cannot shake the feeling from some people that actually your

00:55:08 ◼   ► phone is listening to you.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Now, how are you going to sell this?

00:55:15 ◼   ► Like, well, technically your phone is listening to you and it's transcribing you, but

00:55:19 ◼   ► we promise you it is not giving your info to what like and and

00:55:23 ◼   ► people and people will just roll their eyes and be like, Yeah, sure.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this is just gonna be one of those conversations that I

00:55:30 ◼   ► just there are some of these things that happen in my life and I

00:55:33 ◼   ► just excuse myself from it.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Where it's I'm just like, Yes, that is what's happening.

00:55:37 ◼   ► I have nothing else for you.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Like I I I can't you know that that kind of like my phone

00:55:42 ◼   ► is listening to me.

00:55:43 ◼   ► It's like you c I feel like I can only ever go so far

00:55:45 ◼   ► down the conversation and it's like I I can't do this anymore.

00:55:48 ◼   ► You know, Like it's like the planned obsolescence conversations.

00:55:53 ◼   ► Where I just get to a certain point where I'm like, Yeah, I mean

00:55:56 ◼   ► maybe.

00:55:56 ◼   ► And then it's not a good thing.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe they're doing it, you know?

00:55:58 ◼   ► This is like actually, you know, like So this will just be another one

00:56:05 ◼   ► I've just I hey I hey you could turn it off and I guess

00:56:07 ◼   ► just don't talk to anyone anymore.

00:56:09 ◼   ► I don't know what to tell you.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Because I do feel like I do feel like there's like real interesting utility

00:56:15 ◼   ► in a in a product like this.

00:56:16 ◼   ► That's why I've been intrigued to try it.

00:56:18 ◼   ► Because it's like, what is this gonna be like?

00:56:20 ◼   ► I think it's quite useful.

00:56:22 ◼   ► Uh and and I'm I'm I'm intrigued to see

00:56:26 ◼   ► the usefulness over time.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Um I can see lots of scenarios where just having pieces of data and

00:56:34 ◼   ► information that are available to you from conversations that you have just feels very

00:56:38 ◼   ► useful.

00:56:39 ◼   ► And this comes from like I'm I'm I'm a very happy user of granola.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Um like I use it a lot when I'm on meetings and stuff it's

00:56:46 ◼   ► like you get transcriptions, you get uh meeting notes at the end.

00:56:50 ◼   ► I feel like I've had so many meetings in my life where you finish

00:56:53 ◼   ► and like it was a really productive meeting, but nobody actually remembers any of

00:56:57 ◼   ► the things that they said they were going to do.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:00 ◼   ► And now you have tools where you can actually lead the meeting and everybody

00:57:05 ◼   ► has the ability to know exactly what they said they were going to do.

00:57:08 ◼   ► Like I think it's a really good feature.

00:57:11 ◼   ► And I I see s uh there being a usefulness in just having this

00:57:15 ◼   ► kind of thing available everywhere.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Um it come but it just comes it comes with a lot of like

00:57:21 ◼   ► there's just societal norms that we'll need to break down for it to be

00:57:24 ◼   ► accepted.

00:57:25 ◼   ► But it's not like we haven't already done this with a bunch of things

00:57:28 ◼   ► like cameras.

00:57:29 ◼   ► So yeah, we'll see if was w I'm intrigued to see if like will

00:57:34 ◼   ► people like this enough that we're willing to break the societal norm or not.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Anything else on Siri or 27.3?

00:57:42 ◼   ► I want to get to the Yeah.

00:57:43 ◼   ► I mean Okay.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Massive.

00:57:45 ◼   ► Are you kidding?

00:57:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Siri A AI is a thing.

00:57:49 ◼   ► It's a feature.

00:57:50 ◼   ► It's a thing, Apple.

00:57:51 ◼   ► It is a thing.

00:57:52 ◼   ► And now developers can play with it.

00:57:55 ◼   ► See how I so can I can I can I explain this?

00:57:58 ◼   ► I'm gonna try to do that.

00:57:59 ◼   ► I think I did a pretty good job there.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I'm not sure you did.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I gotta do that.

00:58:02 ◼   ► No no no, you did.

00:58:03 ◼   ► Can I can I build upon your excellent work, see when it's a please.

00:58:07 ◼   ► So the idea is that uh the new Siri AI will allow any developer

00:58:14 ◼   ► of any kind of application to be compatible with Siri AI.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Siri now has the capabilities of working with any app, regardless of the uh

00:58:26 ◼   ► what used to be called the domain of the app uh that a developer

00:58:30 ◼   ► was building in.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Now Siri will just work with any app by just using App Intense and

00:58:37 ◼   ► expanding the on-screen awareness and just working with anything.

00:58:42 ◼   ► That is sort of the idea.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Whereas what launched in September and what was announced two years ago and then

00:58:50 ◼   ► re-announced in June was different.

00:58:53 ◼   ► Um it required an app to fall under a specific category, I believe it

00:58:59 ◼   ► was 14 specific domains to follow a particular schema of integration with Siri AI,

00:59:05 ◼   ► and it required a bunch of work.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Now, Apple is just, well, first of all, they give it, they give it

00:59:11 ◼   ► a name.

00:59:11 ◼   ► It's called the Siri AI Developer Preview.

00:59:14 ◼   ► Um, there's plenty of documentations uh out there.

00:59:19 ◼   ► There's YouTube videos and tech talks that they're doing.

00:59:23 ◼   ► Um the idea is that Siri AI will now just work with app intents.

00:59:29 ◼   ► So the same system, the power shortcut actions, widgets, uh control center controls, you

00:59:35 ◼   ► name it, those are going to work.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And Siri will be able, as part of this, will be able to um

00:59:43 ◼   ► carry out more complex and sort of c uh more complex um requests.

00:59:50 ◼   ► Use any custom action from any app.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Um so if you've built a markdown conversion utility that turns markdown into HTML

01:00:03 ◼   ► and there's an app intent that you've built for that.

01:00:07 ◼   ► That doesn't fall into any particular previous Siri AI domain.

01:00:11 ◼   ► It doesn't matter with Siri AI developer preview.

01:00:14 ◼   ► You'd ask Siri, can you please convert my markdown to HTML?

01:00:17 ◼   ► And Siri AI, if the app does the work for 27.3, Siri AI will

01:00:23 ◼   ► just do it.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Now, uh there's plenty of technical details.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Uh there's a there's a YouTube video.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Uh we took some notes with OTJ, uh lots of like fascinating uh like

01:00:37 ◼   ► little details here and there.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Like for example, um the built-in schemas, like the previous schemas, they will continue

01:00:43 ◼   ► to work.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Uh they will be expanded.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Um there's uh support for two apps on screen at the same time, right?

01:00:52 ◼   ► So if you're using the iPhone Duo, for example, uh Siri will consider both

01:00:56 ◼   ► of those apps.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Um the um there there there's a bunch of things like new tools for

01:01:03 ◼   ► adjusting your prompts if you're a developer.

01:01:06 ◼   ► But I think the bigger one

01:01:08 ◼   ► is the fact that Siri AI developer preview also supports skills.

01:01:15 ◼   ► So Apple is embracing the uh open source agent skills format.

01:01:19 ◼   ► You've heard of skills, I'm sure you've installed some skills in Claude or Codecs

01:01:24 ◼   ► or Yeah, or it makes them too, right?

01:01:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Uh Siri AI will now follow the same uh approach.

01:01:32 ◼   ► So a skill is a markdown file, it's got a name it's a short

01:01:36 ◼   ► description, and it's got full body text.

01:01:39 ◼   ► Um, Apple actually built Siri AI Value Preview to work like Claude and use

01:01:45 ◼   ► what is called dynamic skill loading.

01:01:47 ◼   ► The idea is that instead of reading all of the skills and all of

01:01:51 ◼   ► their text upfront, Siri AI makes a determination uh via its built-in agentic planner,

01:01:59 ◼   ► which is something they rolled out this year.

01:02:01 ◼   ► And if you ask for something that matches a skill, that Siri thinks that

01:02:05 ◼   ► it matches a skill, it only reads the description of the skill, makes a

01:02:11 ◼   ► decision, should I be using this skill?

01:02:12 ◼   ► And then it goes on and reads the entire skill.

01:02:16 ◼   ► Now the difference here is that you do not create skills as a user

01:02:20 ◼   ► in this system.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Developers can create skills and bundle those skills inside their apps to explain to

01:02:28 ◼   ► Siri more complex actions and more complex requests.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Like for example, if you have a note-taking app and you want to explain

01:02:39 ◼   ► to Siri how to um I don't know extract just the uh section headings

01:02:48 ◼   ► from a note.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Uh you can build the skill that teaches Siri how to navigate the document,

01:02:54 ◼   ► how to select text in a document what a heading is, like you can

01:02:59 ◼   ► give Siri a bunch of more complex, repeatable instructions, right?

01:03:04 ◼   ► Instead of uh uh instead of just hoping that Siri makes the correct decis

01:03:08 ◼   ► decision on its own.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Zooming out a little bit here, all of this means effectively two things.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Apple is being faster than we were expecting in terms of growing Siri AI.

01:03:23 ◼   ► But as fast as we were hoping.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Yes.

01:03:26 ◼   ► And they are, sure enough, following the patterns and best practices of the rest

01:03:34 ◼   ► of the AI industries.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Which makes the perfect sense, right?

01:03:38 ◼   ► Makes perfect sense what you should do if you're them.

01:03:40 ◼   ► The one thing that differentiates them right now is the fact that they're using

01:03:45 ◼   ► App Intense instead of MPC or instead uh MCP or instead of uh command

01:03:53 ◼   ► lines, right?

01:03:54 ◼   ► I then I do think it makes sense, right?

01:03:56 ◼   ► Because it's like you don't have to then get your developers to do another

01:04:01 ◼   ► thing.

01:04:01 ◼   ► You can get them to build on something they should have been doing and

01:04:06 ◼   ► or convincing them to do something that you want them to do.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:10 ◼   ► I do think it is a little bit funny.

01:04:12 ◼   ► So here's what I did as soon as 27.3 came out.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I downloaded the firmware from the Apple website.

01:04:18 ◼   ► I have a skill in Codecs to decrypt uh iOS firmware and look inside.

01:04:24 ◼   ► You know, look at look at what's inside.

01:04:26 ◼   ► So I found uh right now Apple is shipping three Skills in their apps,

01:04:31 ◼   ► one for Apple notes and two for files.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Um, I think it's funny that in one of their skills they are explaining

01:04:39 ◼   ► to Siri the app intents using uh shell commands as examples.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Be like, hey, this app intent tool is like when you do RM in

01:04:49 ◼   ► a terminal.

01:04:50 ◼   ► Because that is that is what but but that is what these models understand.

01:04:55 ◼   ► It's bash commands command line commands.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And so they need to they actually have a section in the skill called

01:05:03 ◼   ► shell equivalence where they explain this app intent tool that you may not be

01:05:07 ◼   ► familiar with is actually a match for this terminal commander that you are very

01:05:12 ◼   ► familiar with.

01:05:13 ◼   ► That's funny.

01:05:14 ◼   ► So that's funny.

01:05:15 ◼   ► But um but yeah, so this is the idea.

01:05:18 ◼   ► And it it also means slightly more work required by developers again, right?

01:05:24 ◼   ► So Apple went to developers saying, Ah, you can work with Siri AI, but

01:05:27 ◼   ► you need to fall under these particular domains.

01:05:29 ◼   ► And when you do, you need to support the schema and you need to

01:05:31 ◼   ► support spotlight indexing and all these things.

01:05:34 ◼   ► And now they're you know, and so developers had two years to to get

01:05:37 ◼   ► that work done.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And so Apple now is back and say, Well, actually, uh w now you're

01:05:42 ◼   ► uh now this is gonna work with everything.

01:05:44 ◼   ► You can use App Intense and there's some more considerations that you need to

01:05:49 ◼   ► make, but Overall, I think this is just great.

01:05:53 ◼   ► I think and and I think it's obvious uh that this is Apple quickly,

01:06:01 ◼   ► and and I wanna highlight this word quickly laying the foundation for a Siri

01:06:06 ◼   ► agent.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Because all of the things that they have done since 27.0, m uh rudimentary

01:06:12 ◼   ► support for memory in 27.2 and Siri being able to remember past conversations, now

01:06:18 ◼   ► the ability to work with any kind of app and to use skills, like

01:06:22 ◼   ► piece by piece, they're putting together all of the elements of the common agentic

01:06:27 ◼   ► loop that we have seen in Muse, OpenClaw, Hermes, whatever.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Which makes perfect sense for them, right?

01:06:33 ◼   ► That like that they would come out at W W D C next year

01:06:35 ◼   ► and like Siri's an agent now.

01:06:37 ◼   ► And like these these are the things that it's gonna do in the operating

01:06:41 ◼   ► system.

01:06:41 ◼   ► And because that's the hard part I feel like, right?

01:06:44 ◼   ► Um, is actually building this thing that's gonna do stuff in the OS and

01:06:50 ◼   ► all you need your developers to do is just to offer up functionality.

01:06:54 ◼   ► And you can start doing that in dribs and drabs now, right?

01:06:57 ◼   ► And getting people ready and while they're doing the hard work of like trying

01:07:02 ◼   ► to get this thing to look and act right in the OS, right?

01:07:06 ◼   ► Like you should wait to W W D C to do that.

01:07:09 ◼   ► I feel like if you're you know, you wanna do it right, like let's

01:07:11 ◼   ► let's make it a big part of the operating system.

01:07:13 ◼   ► But in the intervening time, you can start these smaller parts, right?

01:07:17 ◼   ► And like get Siri AI to be a bit more agentic and do a

01:07:19 ◼   ► bit more.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Like there's a an example uh from kind of like the Apple's documentation.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Siri can find custom content from one app, transfer it to a specified app,

01:07:29 ◼   ► and perform an action.

01:07:30 ◼   ► For example, somebody might request, hey, send me, send my favorite sneakers to my

01:07:35 ◼   ► partner of a mess to my partner in the name of a messaging app.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Siri will find the sneakers that the person added to their favorites, understand who

01:07:42 ◼   ► their partner is, find them in contacts, and send the sneaker information to them

01:07:45 ◼   ► using a message.

01:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:46 ◼   ► It's like great.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Like that sounds very good, right?

01:07:50 ◼   ► Like I did a thing where I mean it's slow, right?

01:07:52 ◼   ► But I I had the files app open and I uh I save PDFs

01:07:57 ◼   ► of receipts that I need to upload to my bank app, right?

01:08:00 ◼   ► 'Cause like and and it's so I just put them all in files and

01:08:02 ◼   ► it's every now and then I'll just clear out files.

01:08:05 ◼   ► But there's other stuff in files, it's not just that and I and I

01:08:07 ◼   ► was looking at it and I was like I pressed the side button and

01:08:10 ◼   ► I was like move all the invoice just g delete all the invoices and

01:08:14 ◼   ► it did it.

01:08:14 ◼   ► It identified the things that were PDF invoices and it deleted them and the

01:08:18 ◼   ► ones that it left and it left a couple behind because the titles of

01:08:21 ◼   ► those documents weren't necessarily clear that they were invoices or receipts.

01:08:25 ◼   ► And I was like, Oh, you did you did this exactly the way that

01:08:27 ◼   ► I would have wanted you to.

01:08:28 ◼   ► And so it's like, Oh, that's that's what I want.

01:08:31 ◼   ► Like this is clever stuff.

01:08:33 ◼   ► You said it was like you know, I'm I'm happy that they're iterating this

01:08:36 ◼   ► quickly and without waiting for W W D C, right?

01:08:39 ◼   ► Like do this.

01:08:40 ◼   ► Like I I I can imagine a world in which they did wait to

01:08:43 ◼   ► W W D C and it wouldn't have been surprising, right?

01:08:45 ◼   ► But I'm happy they're doing it.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Uh the history of twenty s of the point three release remains that it

01:08:51 ◼   ► can be a big release and they they put a lot of stuff in.

01:08:54 ◼   ► And I was I was reflecting on this today when so uh underscore David

01:08:57 ◼   ► Smith he is brought back developing perspective which is a podcast he had forever

01:09:02 ◼   ► ago that then became kind of like the foundation for under the radar and

01:09:06 ◼   ► now under the radar finished and so Dave w now like so much is

01:09:09 ◼   ► happening in the world of development that you brought back development perspective.

01:09:13 ◼   ► And he had a episode today called Four Summits where he's kind of talking

01:09:16 ◼   ► about how long this summer season has been, right?

01:09:19 ◼   ► Like where the Apple just keeps doing things.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:22 ◼   ► And like now we have another one.

01:09:24 ◼   ► And I was thinking about this where it's like, you know, they keep it's

01:09:27 ◼   ► like loads of things.

01:09:28 ◼   ► And I think it's like

01:09:31 ◼   ► I think

01:09:33 ◼   ► maybe

01:09:34 ◼   ► there's like a fallacy of like, well, AI coding help will mean that we

01:09:42 ◼   ► can like do stuff quickly

01:09:46 ◼   ► and that and like maybe more easily so things w we'll maybe be able

01:09:51 ◼   ► to put our attention in other areas.

01:09:53 ◼   ► But what I think is actually happening is Apple has this stuff too.

01:09:57 ◼   ► So they are iterating faster and so they are releasing more, which requires developers

01:10:06 ◼   ► to also release

01:10:09 ◼   ► More.

01:10:09 ◼   ► And like this is like a thing that I've been thinking about recently where

01:10:13 ◼   ► AI enhanced software development,

01:10:17 ◼   ► it's not going to mean that developers have less to do.

01:10:21 ◼   ► Oh no.

01:10:21 ◼   ► It's the Or that that maybe even in the grand scheme that there will

01:10:26 ◼   ► be fewer developers.

01:10:28 ◼   ► Like I th you know, I know that there's gonna be contractions, but I

01:10:30 ◼   ► believe there will be expansions too.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And that what it will actually mean mean is that the requirements, the expectations

01:10:40 ◼   ► of what is available will just ik massively expand.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And so like and I think this is an example of that where I

01:10:50 ◼   ► think powered by AI coding, Apple have been able to iterate on Siri AI

01:10:56 ◼   ► faster.

01:10:57 ◼   ► And so it's just giving another thing for developers to do.

01:11:00 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And I think that's only gonna can going to continue.

01:11:03 ◼   ► And so yeah.

01:11:04 ◼   ► It's very interesting.

01:11:05 ◼   ► I I'm I I'm I am intrigued to see

01:11:10 ◼   ► what comes of this.

01:11:12 ◼   ► Um like when when developers start like putting it into their apps.

01:11:15 ◼   ► And like 'cause I know that you would have seen this, Federico, for sure.

01:11:18 ◼   ► But I remember when, you know, when when this stuff was rolling out between

01:11:21 ◼   ► June and September, I was seeing a lot of developers who were really frustrated

01:11:24 ◼   ► that they couldn't use Siri AI because they didn't fall into the like the

01:11:28 ◼   ► domains.

01:11:29 ◼   ► We're so well now anyone can.

01:11:31 ◼   ► And so like what is that gonna what is that gonna feel like um

01:11:34 ◼   ► over the next few months?

01:11:35 ◼   ► Can you explain to me what developer preview means?

01:11:40 ◼   ► Like in this context?

01:11:42 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:11:42 ◼   ► They just gave it this name.

01:11:44 ◼   ► I I feel like They gave it a name because this is gonna take

01:11:50 ◼   ► I don't I don't think a lot of people have paid attention to this.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I think this is gonna take a few months.

01:11:55 ◼   ► Like do you think that when point three comes out that like people will

01:11:58 ◼   ► be able to ship their apps and it will just work or do you

01:12:00 ◼   ► think it'll take a bit longer?

01:12:02 ◼   ► I think all of these apps will be able to launch on the App

01:12:06 ◼   ► Store with this integration in 27.3.

01:12:09 ◼   ► It's like they gave a name to a beta program of a beta program,

01:12:13 ◼   ► right?

01:12:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:15 ◼   ► I don't think this is launching this year.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Like I don't think it's gonna come out in December.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I think this is a January thing.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Uh okay.

01:12:24 ◼   ► And I don't know why, but maybe since they're doing tech talks and like

01:12:29 ◼   ► developer, what did they call them?

01:12:30 ◼   ► I forget.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Point three will be out in December.

01:12:34 ◼   ► Will it?

01:12:35 ◼   ► Yes.

01:12:36 ◼   ► W the reason we know this is because Apple's China Newsroom pre announced point

01:12:42 ◼   ► three because it includes China's first support for Apple intelligence features.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And in that post they said that point three will be out in December.

01:12:52 ◼   ► So maybe the Serie I developer preview will continue then.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:56 ◼   ► And he will and he will extend to the new year and twenty seven

01:13:00 ◼   ► point four.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but like point three is the first time maybe they can test it.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Um yeah, we'll see.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:13:07 ◼   ► I have no idea.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:10 ◼   ► Well,

01:13:12 ◼   ► that's serie AI for the few countries that have it.

01:13:19 ◼   ► Slowly spreading.

01:13:21 ◼   ► Slowly.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Very slowly.

01:13:23 ◼   ► I have some real time follow-up.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Wouldn't record.

01:13:28 ◼   ► I have a bunch of tabs open.

01:13:30 ◼   ► I have uh the show notes.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Well, that's a notion, but I have uh the links, because Mike, you normally

01:13:35 ◼   ► add the links, but I like to keep an eye on them.

01:13:38 ◼   ► And I have the feedback form usually open just because it's like in my

01:13:42 ◼   ► bookmark folder for connected.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And I was just tab and around and I refreshed the feedback form and

01:13:49 ◼   ► I want to read you what we just got.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Hello.

01:13:52 ◼   ► I'm a listener from Sweden, listening live on my run.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Incredible.

01:14:00 ◼   ► So uh see now the problem is we can't tell the Swedes to not

01:14:03 ◼   ► contact us.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:05 ◼   ► 'Cause we don't need 'em now.

01:14:06 ◼   ► We've heard from one.

01:14:07 ◼   ► Is this person give their name or no?

01:14:09 ◼   ► Uh Herman.

01:14:10 ◼   ► Hello, Herman.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Hello.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Herman, you have a Swedish sounding name to me, so I believe you.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:17 ◼   ► How do you say let's see.

01:14:19 ◼   ► How does Google Translate even work anymore?

01:14:22 ◼   ► What are you trying to translate?

01:14:23 ◼   ► Oh, you're trying to translate into into Swedish?

01:14:26 ◼   ► Yes.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Hello, Herman, you said?

01:14:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Well, it's just hey.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Well there you go.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:37 ◼   ► How about good evening?

01:14:40 ◼   ► Is Swedish a real language like good evening is like good afternoon like okay,

01:14:45 ◼   ► God afton?

01:14:46 ◼   ► It's like good afternoon.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Oh is Swedish like it's like one of these languages where it's like similar

01:14:51 ◼   ► enough that it's like odd.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Like Dutch is a little bit like that sometimes goodnight similar.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:58 ◼   ► It's similar enough that it's like it feels funny.

01:15:04 ◼   ► Now we get to talk about the laptop.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Federico.

01:15:06 ◼   ► Okay.

01:15:06 ◼   ► You got to go to LA.

01:15:07 ◼   ► You got to touch this thing.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Reviews are out.

01:15:10 ◼   ► Um seems like a lot of people uh have sort of similar feelings about

01:15:14 ◼   ► the importance of touch, but I do want to highlight, we talked about it

01:15:17 ◼   ► last week I'm gonna highlight it again, it'll be in the show notes again.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Your column on this, like, is just like living rent free in my head

01:15:24 ◼   ► about a Mac for an iPad generation.

01:15:26 ◼   ► Like what does this mean today?

01:15:27 ◼   ► What does it mean in the future?

01:15:29 ◼   ► Um, but how is it using this thing?

01:15:31 ◼   ► I mean you've you've got to spend some time with it um at the

01:15:35 ◼   ► event.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Well what's this thing about?

01:15:37 ◼   ► Look, i it was not ideal testing conditions, right?

01:15:41 ◼   ► You got uh people pushing you like from all sides at this at those

01:15:46 ◼   ► hands on tables.

01:15:48 ◼   ► It was fine.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Not the best environment to test touch on a computer.

01:15:55 ◼   ► Like you you're like hunching over and reaching out and there's a mess of

01:16:01 ◼   ► people around you and it's loud, it was very distracting.

01:16:05 ◼   ► It seemed fine to me.

01:16:07 ◼   ► Like it breaks your brain a little for the first minute because you're like

01:16:11 ◼   ► ah I am not supposed to be doing this.

01:16:14 ◼   ► Uh and and then you do it and at least from my perspective, the

01:16:18 ◼   ► iPad familiarity instantly kicked in.

01:16:21 ◼   ► Like the Apple uh person in charge of the demo didn't even get to

01:16:25 ◼   ► explain like, oh, you can swipe up from the bottom edge of the display

01:16:29 ◼   ► to invoke the doc.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And I just did it because my brain just assumed oh that's what you

01:16:33 ◼   ► do on an iPad.

01:16:35 ◼   ► You swipe up and you show the doc.

01:16:36 ◼   ► And and it worked the same way.

01:16:38 ◼   ► When I touched the the traffic light controls, they expanded like they do on

01:16:44 ◼   ► iPad.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Um

01:16:46 ◼   ► the the one thing that I will notice the the texture, the the feeling

01:16:52 ◼   ► of touching the glass on the screen.

01:16:54 ◼   ► It was very different from my iPad Pro because I have a nanotexture iPad

01:16:58 ◼   ► Pro iPad Pro, and that display that I was using in LA was glossy,

01:17:04 ◼   ► and so it had a little more resistance, a little more friction, and so

01:17:08 ◼   ► my finger was now gliding across the display like it does on a nanotexture

01:17:13 ◼   ► display.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Um

01:17:16 ◼   ► of course, since it I was a bit uncomfortable, like with all those like

01:17:21 ◼   ► YouTubers and photographers and people around you.

01:17:25 ◼   ► My and like so sometimes, for example, somebody would bump him into my elbow,

01:17:29 ◼   ► right, when I was testing the computer.

01:17:31 ◼   ► And so like sometimes I like I mistouched the screen, for example.

01:17:36 ◼   ► It can be a little difficult to say you have like list view in

01:17:41 ◼   ► Finder and you have a bunch of folders and documents, and you want to

01:17:46 ◼   ► precisely touch one.

01:17:49 ◼   ► That's not what touch is made for.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Even though when you do touch and when you grab it, the the item

01:17:55 ◼   ► kind of expands, right?

01:17:56 ◼   ► Like it does on an iPad.

01:17:58 ◼   ► Those more pre like

01:18:01 ◼   ► I think what I'm curious to test as soon as I eventually get a

01:18:06 ◼   ► a unit would be the difference between the touch up t optimizations that they

01:18:13 ◼   ► have done, which seem pretty good.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Yeah versus the first touch.

01:18:19 ◼   ► What I mean is

01:18:21 ◼   ► the the the computer has no way of knowing that you're hovering with your

01:18:26 ◼   ► finger over the display.

01:18:28 ◼   ► So it cannot pre-optimize the UI.

01:18:32 ◼   ► So the UI is small macOS UI by default.

01:18:36 ◼   ► So you still gotta be precise enough at first to touch what you're supposed

01:18:41 ◼   ► to touch.

01:18:42 ◼   ► And then when you do, the UI optimizes for touch.

01:18:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:46 ◼   ► But it has no way of knowing whether you're about to touch or you're

01:18:49 ◼   ► about to click with a pointer, right?

01:18:51 ◼   ► And the c cause as well, it's like maybe those scenarios in realistic use

01:18:55 ◼   ► you're just not gonna do them anyway.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:18:58 ◼   ► Like it was just for a demo.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Right.

01:19:00 ◼   ► So I don't think are you really gonna be like dragging and dropping from

01:19:03 ◼   ► Finder, right?

01:19:04 ◼   ► Like you know, like I say I would do it too, but it's 'cause

01:19:08 ◼   ► you're you're they're like touch the screen.

01:19:09 ◼   ► See, I don't know, I'll just touch this, right?

01:19:11 ◼   ► But it's like would I do that I don't know that's what I did.

01:19:13 ◼   ► Yeah I I I don't think I would right so I think my sense

01:19:19 ◼   ► is that since I I I I I have had Windows laptops with touch

01:19:24 ◼   ► before.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Yep.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I think for me the thing with touch

01:19:28 ◼   ► in a non iPad computer

01:19:31 ◼   ► is it's just nice to have for some things and some

01:19:37 ◼   ► positions that you may be using your your computer.

01:19:40 ◼   ► Like say that I'm sort of lying down on the couch, computer on my

01:19:44 ◼   ► lap,

01:19:45 ◼   ► and the trackpad is like on your stomach, right?

01:19:48 ◼   ► Because you have the computer on you.

01:19:51 ◼   ► Sometimes it's easier to reach up with your arm and touch the display.

01:19:54 ◼   ► Yeah because of what you're doing that like weird hovering at the keyboard.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:20:00 ◼   ► Otherwise you're just like doing that contraption with your wrist to to to use

01:20:04 ◼   ► the trackpad and you're just like, no, I wanna lay, got the computer on

01:20:08 ◼   ► my lab.

01:20:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna touch my screen.

01:20:10 ◼   ► So for those scenarios, I think it's convenient.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Um, of course Apple did this very specialized demos of like here's a musician

01:20:20 ◼   ► playing a virtual piano yeah on the display like sure okay like if you're

01:20:25 ◼   ► a serious musician you probably have a MIDI keyboard or something plugged into your

01:20:29 ◼   ► computer anyway.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Um, so I think it's gonna be a fun, useful secondary input.

01:20:38 ◼   ► The star of this computer, like the two stars of this computer, are the

01:20:43 ◼   ► OLED display and the fact that it's lighter than before.

01:20:47 ◼   ► I cannot stress enough this aspect.

01:20:50 ◼   ► It is by far the best OLED panel I've ever seen.

01:20:55 ◼   ► Maybe save for my very, very expensive seventy seven inch television.

01:21:00 ◼   ► What about the iPad Pro?

01:21:02 ◼   ► Like no, it's it's better than that.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I know it's like how is it like a lot better?

01:21:06 ◼   ► Yes.

01:21:07 ◼   ► It felt it felt a lot better.

01:21:10 ◼   ► Um it the the viewing angles, the uh the brightness.

01:21:16 ◼   ► Um it just it the iPad Pro was already arguably the best OLED display

01:21:22 ◼   ► that I had.

01:21:23 ◼   ► This one is better than that.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Especially if you can get the 16 inch ooh boy, like that is one

01:21:31 ◼   ► heck of a display, really.

01:21:33 ◼   ► Um they they did these demos

01:21:36 ◼   ► where they were putting this Windows laptop with a tandem OLED monitor.

01:21:41 ◼   ► Side by side versus the MacBook Pro with Tandemolad in a controlled lighting environment,

01:21:46 ◼   ► meaning that the Apple person could like flick a light switch on and off

01:21:50 ◼   ► to show off the differences with his like uh ceiling lights.

01:21:55 ◼   ► And man, that Lenovo laptop was really suffering with that tandemolette display.

01:22:01 ◼   ► It was horrible.

01:22:02 ◼   ► You know?

01:22:03 ◼   ► It was horrible.

01:22:04 ◼   ► It was horrible.

01:22:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:22:06 ◼   ► It was washed out.

01:22:07 ◼   ► It was uh truly, truly terrible.

01:22:09 ◼   ► Um Um the HDR content looked fantastic.

01:22:14 ◼   ► And just when you pick up the computer, especially the 14 inch, you can

01:22:17 ◼   ► tell that it's lighter than the four like I went on and picked up

01:22:21 ◼   ► my own M4 Pro MacBook.

01:22:25 ◼   ► Pro.

01:22:25 ◼   ► I was like, oh, this is a brick.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Like it's it really it really is a lovely computer.

01:22:32 ◼   ► I think people got too fixated on the touch aspect instead of the display

01:22:38 ◼   ► and the the the lightness of it.

01:22:41 ◼   ► It really, really is a remarkable display.

01:22:44 ◼   ► If you can go to an Apple store and check it out in person,

01:22:47 ◼   ► please do it.

01:22:48 ◼   ► And that's gonna probably if you care about a good display, which I do

01:22:53 ◼   ► um, it'll make you wanna buy one.

01:22:56 ◼   ► It's r it really is that good looking and I am not exaggerating this.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Yeah, that that is the appropriate reaction.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Use a Mac Pro right now right?

01:23:07 ◼   ► Or you're an air.

01:23:08 ◼   ► You're a pro?

01:23:09 ◼   ► No pro.

01:23:10 ◼   ► I figure if you're if I was using a MacBook Pro, this would be

01:23:13 ◼   ► a real problem for me.

01:23:14 ◼   ► But I d like I but the thing for me is like d I

01:23:18 ◼   ► just don't know if I would want the the thickness and the weight increased

01:23:21 ◼   ► from an air, right?

01:23:23 ◼   ► Right.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Yeah, no.

01:23:23 ◼   ► That I get.

01:23:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:25 ◼   ► But I understand.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Man.

01:23:28 ◼   ► It is a it is a lovely machine.

01:23:30 ◼   ► It's not an iPad.

01:23:31 ◼   ► There's maybe a story down the road and a narrative down the road for

01:23:37 ◼   ► perhaps the iPad and the Mac being on a collision course.

01:23:40 ◼   ► This is not today.

01:23:42 ◼   ► This is just a display with touch and OLED.

01:23:46 ◼   ► And I think it's a really good one.

01:23:48 ◼   ► Sounds nice.

01:23:49 ◼   ► Steven, how are you feel about this computer?

01:23:51 ◼   ► Seems pretty cool.

01:23:54 ◼   ► I'm not I'm not in the market as much as I may want to

01:23:58 ◼   ► be.

01:23:59 ◼   ► Am I quietly building one in the background again?

01:24:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:05 ◼   ► How many times have you done that already?

01:24:07 ◼   ► A couple of times.

01:24:08 ◼   ► I mean, to to make it even remotely feasible, like it would I would

01:24:12 ◼   ► need to downgrade some things from what I have now.

01:24:15 ◼   ► And I sit like in front of a like I I don't use the

01:24:19 ◼   ► laptop display all that much.

01:24:21 ◼   ► I sit in front of a uh an ancient Pro Display XDR.

01:24:25 ◼   ► You practically see the pixels on it.

01:24:27 ◼   ► And uh I'm just kidding.

01:24:28 ◼   ► It's great.

01:24:29 ◼   ► And so like I if it were if I were using it as a

01:24:32 ◼   ► laptop and like carrying it around, I think I would be much more tempted.

01:24:36 ◼   ► But it basically lives on my desk almost all the time.

01:24:39 ◼   ► And so I feel like a lot of the ways that it sort of

01:24:43 ◼   ► moves the ball forward um isn't like it's not quite where I need to

01:24:49 ◼   ► be.

01:24:50 ◼   ► So

01:24:52 ◼   ► to to I think we talked about this last time, but like to exactly

01:24:57 ◼   ► uh like to build my machine as it is now and trade in my

01:25:02 ◼   ► current MacBook Pro, i it's still like

01:25:07 ◼   ► three or four thousand dollars.

01:25:09 ◼   ► Like it's so it's just expensive.

01:25:11 ◼   ► Um

01:25:13 ◼   ► now if I drop down to the pro and not the max, which I

01:25:18 ◼   ► can totally do, like um then it is still with a trade in like

01:25:23 ◼   ► twenty eight hundred dollars, which is just not in the cards right now.

01:25:27 ◼   ► But it looks sweet.

01:25:28 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

01:25:29 ◼   ► It does.

01:25:31 ◼   ► I'll go see it in the store.

01:25:32 ◼   ► You know, I want to go check it out.

01:25:33 ◼   ► So yeah.

01:25:34 ◼   ► They when do they ship?

01:25:36 ◼   ► Is it tomorrow?

01:25:37 ◼   ► Tomorrow.

01:25:38 ◼   ► Okay.

01:25:39 ◼   ► The custom one I built is pushed into December, but it's obviously like super

01:25:43 ◼   ► custom.

01:25:43 ◼   ► But a machine.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I think we've done it.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:47 ◼   ► We visited some other countries.

01:25:51 ◼   ► We talked about touching computers.

01:25:52 ◼   ► We talked about Siri AI.

01:25:55 ◼   ► We've cleared the feedback form.

01:25:59 ◼   ► Pretty solid episode.

01:26:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:01 ◼   ► It was good.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Yeah, like a pretty good.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Pretty, pretty good.

01:26:05 ◼   ► If you want links to stuff we spoke about, they're in your podcast player.

01:26:09 ◼   ► They're also on the web, relay.fm slash connected slash six twenty-seven.

01:26:14 ◼   ► You can leave feedback, send us a note, drop us some secrets, whatever you

01:26:21 ◼   ► want to do.

01:26:21 ◼   ► You can also join and get connected pro, which is the longer and ad-free

01:26:25 ◼   ► version of the show.

01:26:26 ◼   ► We do it each and every week.

01:26:28 ◼   ► That supports us directly and you get a bunch of really cool stuff from

01:26:32 ◼   ► relay, Discord access, newsletter, some members-only podcasts, lots of great stuff.

01:26:37 ◼   ► So go check that out.

01:26:38 ◼   ► You can find Federico at maxstories.net, where he is the editor in chief.

01:26:43 ◼   ► You can find Mike at the enthusiast.net where he is the editor in chief.

01:26:47 ◼   ► And you can find me at five twelvepixels.net where I am the editor in

01:26:51 ◼   ► chief.

01:26:52 ◼   ► Wow, we're all cheats.

01:26:54 ◼   ► We are.

01:26:54 ◼   ► That's so good.

01:26:55 ◼   ► Think if we could bind our sites, how powerful they would be.

01:26:59 ◼   ► I don't think I would bring much to the equation.

01:27:02 ◼   ► Um, but if you guys want to do it, like I'd love to be

01:27:06 ◼   ► a part of it.

01:27:06 ◼   ► But I I really don't think I'm gonna hold up my end very much,

01:27:09 ◼   ► if I'm being honest.

01:27:10 ◼   ► Now if you want podcasts as part of this new media empire like those

01:27:14 ◼   ► I got, you know?

01:27:15 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:15 ◼   ► I can do that bit.

01:27:17 ◼   ► I don't think you can be an editor in chief of a podcast.

01:27:20 ◼   ► Sure you can.

01:27:21 ◼   ► Can you?

01:27:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:23 ◼   ► What does an editor in chief do?

01:27:26 ◼   ► Everything.

01:27:27 ◼   ► What does that mean?

01:27:29 ◼   ► Okay, hang on.

01:27:30 ◼   ► Federico?

01:27:31 ◼   ► What does an editor in chief do?

01:27:32 ◼   ► No, I don't have time for this.

01:27:34 ◼   ► I I I che I chief.

01:27:36 ◼   ► That's what I do.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Well there you go.

01:27:38 ◼   ► I chief on the things.

01:27:39 ◼   ► I chief on my shows.

01:27:40 ◼   ► I'm always chiefing.

01:27:42 ◼   ► Anyways, we'll we'll consider that next time.

01:27:44 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsor this week, Squarespace.