48: Marco Bought Four

0:00:00we have some follow-up

0:00:03guess not I'm waiting for John to jump in there against your done moving on the

0:00:08OK from its ok to take a drink of water before the show starts at that I had

0:00:11time you just jump right now I'm a professional John johnny on the spot I

0:00:18guess we got an email from someone who works at Apple star who prefers to

0:00:21remain anonymous as those people tend to do on the subject of Apple's messages

0:00:27program and the iMessage service and the subtle partial email people stop by the

0:00:32Apple Store with problems are obviously not representative of iPhone users in

0:00:35general but I message is probably the top problem among the folks who do stop

0:00:40by problems with iMessage are probably the top frustration with Apple's

0:00:44products and services among the specials in our store we had a number of people

0:00:47writing in saying it's it's always been fine for me you know but I i think

0:00:51there's been enough reports of it being not fine for many people and that's

0:00:55something like that that's a really good data point because obviously they only

0:00:58see the people with problems but they see everybody's problems like any you

0:01:02know there are in the best position to decide what is the most common problem

0:01:05amongst all users Apple products period is not like just iPhone users or

0:01:09whatever it is I cross all of Apple's products and services as in contrast to

0:01:13the common podcast blog fodder other iCloud problems over those stemming for

0:01:17obvious grocers are relatively rare so he saying that no problems are directed

0:01:23revealed I like allowed or not as big a deal as they're made out but I message

0:01:26is the number one

0:01:27frustration from people who come in to see them just as a user of iCloud I use

0:01:33it can gently I I use basically cut Calendar and Contacts Inc and not a lot

0:01:38of other features it offers you know that the document in the cloud it really

0:01:42use some of that and by using it lightly like that I rarely see any problems and

0:01:47so that's probably how most people use it you know where you are you must hear

0:01:52complaints about iCloud being weird and buggy and potentially awful

0:01:56developers who are trying to develop against the sink API's which as we

0:02:00discussed before have a lot of issues and possibly some some pretty fatal

0:02:03designs and and you know so that you know the developer point of view of

0:02:08iCloud is very different from what the public yeah I wonder like it for people

0:02:13who do

0:02:14we're not fooling around the stuff if they have undemanding use them like me

0:02:18three contacts in the modified not much there maybe didn't notice a big deal but

0:02:22if you have if you have tons of stuff and wanted to work just so I wanna play

0:02:26with the little icon seeking switches and everything and then something

0:02:29doesn't work and it gets hosing goes off into the weeds I don't know those people

0:02:32ever bother going to an Apple store and try to figure it out themselves and

0:02:37having a lot of cases when icon doesn't work people just doesn't just don't

0:02:40notice or like you said they blame the application and they don't blame you

0:02:44know the phone or whatever but the number of people who go into the Apple

0:02:48Store software problems

0:02:50bagus is a different class of people because I would never go into the Apple

0:02:55Store the software problem I think it's as long as I can actually determine it

0:02:58was a problem because what did they get it do for me that is gonna post same

0:03:01buttons I can't focus people who don't know Texas nothing you know or if you

0:03:05wanna say maybe it is a hardware problem I'll take him to the back room hooked up

0:03:08to a machine that had to run some diagnostic but it was interesting to

0:03:12point something else also how many you what percentage of iPhone users do you

0:03:19think

0:03:20don't have any other Apple products and therefore don't really see like the

0:03:24syncing issues necessarily connected with the history of all I would think on

0:03:31the Apple those numbers like how many iPhone users also have a Mac but I would

0:03:35love to know that you know it's getting smaller and smaller as PCs are doing

0:03:39less and less well in the marketplace max are doing better and better I'm sure

0:03:43that that's getting to be smaller and smaller but using anecdotal piece of

0:03:46evidence the first Apple device that I believe my dad guard was either an iPad

0:03:51or an iPhone I want to say was an iPhone and now fast forward two or three years

0:03:55later and pretty much my entire immediate family as an errand and I as

0:04:00well as immediate family is in my parents brothers they're almost

0:04:03exclusively Mac now look at the sales numbers though how many iPhones apple

0:04:09sold in the past three years versus how many accidents although no sales are not

0:04:12the same as the stalled base but the number of iPhones just massively towards

0:04:16the number

0:04:16max in existence but this plane and they are like you know like the all the old

0:04:20max that are sitting around how how how long do you keep counting like some

0:04:24ancient Mac PowerPC still hanging around or whatever but there's just so many

0:04:29more iPhone and iOS devices then max that you have to say most people who

0:04:34have iOS devices do not have max me I would say if I had to take a guess at

0:04:39what percentage of iPhone owners that was their only Apple device I would say

0:04:44it's probably like 50% or maybe even more I think it's I think it's like if

0:04:48you want to know the percentage if you look at all the people who buy phones

0:04:52and say what percentage of those have a Mac its I bet it's very similar to the

0:04:55percentage of gender general population has a Mac at this point because the

0:04:59iPhone is is is a mass-market general-purpose product I don't think

0:05:04people see any real connection to the Mac latest like it would never occur to

0:05:07them that if you've got an iPhone that there was any connection to the max you

0:05:11had to have a Mac that you should have a Mac anything but a true this year to get

0:05:15out of having a Mac really I guess maybe a desktop version of the Notes

0:05:19application so what did you know gaming PC and iPod shuffle sing better so much

0:05:27and most people don't even think their phones to their computers which is why

0:05:31Apple had to push for so long to get all this stuff over iCloud backups and

0:05:35Cingular Wireless and iTunes Match all the other stuff like you know it wasn't

0:05:40that long ago you know it's easy for you to forget but it was only iOS 5 that

0:05:44brought most of that stuff that made you stop having to sync with iTunes to get a

0:05:47lot of these features that was not that long ago to remember the the jailbreak

0:05:52app that would allow you to do wifi saying and it was like such a big deal

0:05:56this was roundabouts the violence 450 such a big deal because he could sink

0:06:01over wi-fi and people like oh my god you have to do this immediately they were

0:06:05like expecting a point release of iTunes the next day 22 to enable wifi sync not

0:06:09recall exactly when it actually showed up in their members that being such a

0:06:13big deal and that was the brief window of time around he was around the brief

0:06:16window of time when I actually had a jailbroken iPhone and so I thought about

0:06:21I think at this point three jailbreaking just for that it was so silly but yeah

0:06:25there really wasn't that long ago you're exactly right

0:06:27and they implemented a wi-fi sync and actually I'm curious what do you guys do

0:06:33for forcing tobacco I was connected to cable yet typically I do as well I think

0:06:37I wi-fi sync enabled but I believe unpacking well I'm backing up my iphone

0:06:43to my computer and I'm on my iPad to iCloud but I actually have a gripe about

0:06:49this which is branching away from follow-up it since I'm talking I'm

0:06:53seeing a continued I think that because of SMS logs which I'm a packrat and I

0:06:59don't delete barely any my sms logs and I probably should go and call all of

0:07:04them but I'm I think it's because I have four years of SMS logs or something like

0:07:09that

0:07:10my iCloud account which I do I just have the free one which is happily five gigs

0:07:15it is called the moment I start backing my iPhone up to it and I've looked at

0:07:20the usage in settings and i'm looking a while so I'm a little fuzzy on the

0:07:25details but there was nothing jumped out and said oh I'm you there's no app or

0:07:29anything that said oh I'm using 34 gigs or anything like that and the only thing

0:07:33I can guess cause I believe I turned off the the app backup sty cloud for just

0:07:38about everything and it still was whining about not having enough space in

0:07:42the only thing I can think of is I've got a gazillion SMS is in perhaps more

0:07:45importantly mmm messes that that have been around since 2008 when I got my 3ds

0:07:51that that I think are trying to go to iCloud and failing miserably and that's

0:07:56that's kind of a bummer and as everyone in the chat his saying yes I am The King

0:08:01of sending animated gifs to people which is certainly not helping so that's

0:08:04probably a self-created issue when you first heard saying it was SMS I was

0:08:08thinking yet it's like filling up a terabyte with Word documents but now

0:08:11that you say you know that you get a lot of MMS and do a lot of image sending and

0:08:16receiving that actually makes a lot of sense because where is that stored what

0:08:19is that categorized as and that that really could be a problem plus your you

0:08:25know your billions of emoji and especially imagine imagine if Apple

0:08:30stores your emoji as images oh you actually stores high DPI images

0:08:37bubbles but you don't i'm saying it's it's frustrating still a maybe I'm

0:08:43abnormal in that I don't go through and call text messages and maybe most people

0:08:49are paranoid or whatever but but for me it by me not taking action in other

0:08:55words by me not going through and deleting all text messages in picture

0:09:00messages I have put myself in a position where I cloud backup effectively doesn't

0:09:06work for me unless I paid for it and and that's not necessarily a bad thing and

0:09:10it pretty much is my fault but it's interesting to me that when I do

0:09:14something that you would assume an average user would do which is just let

0:09:17SMS and MMS is fly by and just let let them go into the ether by doing that

0:09:23I've set myself up in a position where I can't use iCloud or not effectively

0:09:27anyway does anybody pay for extra storage and iCloud I would if I wanted

0:09:32to use it like it was it was better than local backup in more ways like it was

0:09:37his as fast if it kept all my passwords and encrypt it like you know this stuff

0:09:41things I club does slightly differently I thought about paying for many times

0:09:44and is going and the reason I always use the cable to my backup system because

0:09:48I'm against wife I think just because my battery almost always need to be charged

0:09:53by the time I and the back of the computer I'm playing in any way to

0:09:56charges why not also do the backup then I particularly liked it I don't think

0:10:02it's a maybe I'll go wireless eventually but for now I keep doing it the

0:10:06old-fashioned Lee and I believe I might pays for iCloud backup and I think he is

0:10:10the only person on the planet and his his up according to his statement on the

0:10:15prompt sounds pretty weird in general it is either very uncommon or like every

0:10:22other non become the world's just like him and we just don't see it I think I

0:10:26think what happens is like people would get the free iCloud and then they ran

0:10:29out of space on Ibiza is not hard to blow through that space and then they go

0:10:32to the Apple store cuz they can't figure out why the phone isn't working at

0:10:35giving them some message about being in a room or something like that don't

0:10:40understand what it's saying to them and eventually some explains them it's

0:10:42telling you that if you want to keep using your phone like you've been using

0:10:45you have to pass on that

0:10:46and they hate bad and they complain about it but it's better than learning a

0:10:50new way to do things a lot of people just end up not disliking Apple having a

0:10:56bad feeling about Apple that happens which is why is that so many times they

0:10:58need to like figure that out like giving people that little taste just as a

0:11:02setting them up to four bad feelings later but for most people it's easier

0:11:06than changing the way they do things I just want to keep doing whatever it is I

0:11:09was doing make this go away you know or maybe they just like they just turn off

0:11:15my car back up I'm not sure I want to take that alternative I don't need

0:11:19backup nothing's gonna side so talk to me about East squished Mac Mini on

0:11:28Twitter and he offers a theory about why the Mac Mini gets criticized my show

0:11:33that I didn't like that I got social liked it better when I was taller and

0:11:36skinnier and his theory is her theory is that it's because now it's if it's in a

0:11:42way you rack which I kinda by like before they used to track them

0:11:46vertically when they were found that many was they just turn them on their

0:11:49sides and I get there take up to you at that point no more than that and in 45

0:11:53probably remember what it was like some of it anyway like the many many as

0:11:59doesn't really a rack mountable machine people have a rack-mounted it because

0:12:04it's small and it will fit and squashing it down to one you may be was a nod to

0:12:08the people

0:12:09racking them but if you're gonna make something good for racking you wouldn't

0:12:12make something like the mini like you would make it would be made differently

0:12:18very least it would have little flanges are some things you could actually put

0:12:22it in the mail but still looks like something is meant to be on desk

0:12:26somewhere yeah I would agree and you know it if they wanted to rack mount a

0:12:29Mac don't you think they would have liked some server or server and you

0:12:34would run OS 10 but you would maybe abbreviated as like exercise one more

0:12:40piece of follow up this is from

0:12:42an anonymous industry source of course I'ma get to identify a person talking

0:12:48about the the dole BCS damn I wish I found out at the end of the show that

0:12:52neither one of you know what that was talking about last week's still be

0:12:56showed this experimental like this is not a product but let's just show you

0:13:00what this would look like this experimental crazy television set up

0:13:02thing that was demonstrating what I was talking about you know in terms of

0:13:06better pixels a much larger range between the darkest and the brightest

0:13:10spot on a television you think about when you go outside the real world what

0:13:15is the difference in brightness between a place that's under direct sunlight in

0:13:19Newnan placed its shade under an umbrella or like it looking up at the

0:13:24sky and the Sun is in the corner of your eye what is the difference in brightness

0:13:26screamed at and in like a dark hearts huge gigantic dynamic range in a number

0:13:32of ways but it's way more than as a TV TV as bright areas in dark areas but

0:13:37they're much closer together and some of that is practically speaking to limit

0:13:41because if your television had the same dynamic ranges real life and a show pan

0:13:47the camera up to a sunny sky and you stared at the TV you'll go blind

0:13:50that's bad if you had televisions admitting for the full of her magnetic

0:13:54spectrum of the Sun at the same brightness a double take a lot of power

0:13:58would not be good for your vision that's not what we're talking about receiving a

0:14:02happy medium between the current incredibly small dynamic range of

0:14:06television's today and the outdoors and so this demo was like here here so we

0:14:11can do with current technology if we just you know make this crazy

0:14:14experimental set and looks strikingly different than a regular television

0:14:17radio television stars look like completely low contrast full of mud

0:14:21compared to this great dynamic range and so this industry that there is the you

0:14:28know the video entertainment industry sources high dynamic range just two big

0:14:33wins it looks stunning and is in my opinion the most interesting interesting

0:14:37feature added to cinema recently it has more than experienced in stereo 3d high

0:14:41frame rate or four que also since most video and other content creators are

0:14:45already producing 60% on images of Dover range values it's almost free there's

0:14:50some stuff that has been posting color grading but is no rear entering as there

0:14:53is with redeemed for cash

0:14:54I'd seen a double checking it's great for the home but I'm not sure how they

0:14:58gonna get us into theaters which is where the money is for the studios so

0:15:01the thing about the source is a good point because saying that that most of

0:15:05the country has already created with color values that are outside the range

0:15:08that can be displayed by a current output device so all their content is

0:15:13shot with 16 bits of value per component and scaled down to eight bits or less or

0:15:19whatever the current output devices that we have in our home so they don't have

0:15:22to reshoot the footage didn't have to rear ender doing just that they already

0:15:25have source material that is outside the range that can be displayed so someone

0:15:28can make a commercial set that can display a larger than our range a lot of

0:15:32the content that we already know about to be created in the past four years

0:15:35already has a decision here is already sufficient to show that extra range but

0:15:41again dodi was not demonstrating a private you could buy it was just kind

0:15:44of a you know wouldn't it be cool if kind of tech demo so I really hope that

0:15:49that's where people concentrate especially after porque comes and goes

0:15:52and you know does its thing the next thing they should be looking at is that

0:15:57I'm looking at it now it seems like for cut its forecast weather gonna do

0:16:00because easier but I'm much more excited about so I watched that in 10 years

0:16:07talk about a friend of course I would love to it is possibly our best friend

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0:17:51is so happy at how easy it was to use it before she was she was kind of waiting

0:17:56to get into tumblr until there really is not made to do what she wanted to do

0:18:00exactly and and it was it was not using the wrong tool for the job Squarespace

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0:18:09it it was so much easier for her to do the photo she wanted embed them the way

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0:18:36for sponsoring the show some pretty big stuff has happened over the last couple

0:18:40of days we're recording on Wednesday the 15th and on the one hand I don't know if

0:18:47there's really not much more to say about it but on the other hand I know

0:18:50the three of us well enough to know there's probably some stuff to say so

0:18:53are you tearing the thermostats off the mark of the story in case you've been

0:19:01living under a rock and somehow the podcast are that Google has bought nest

0:19:05or is about to buy now pending regulatory approval I believe that

0:19:10Google is probably going to buy now for some 43 points something billion dollars

0:19:15they point to whatever it was a little over three billion dollars and so I have

0:19:19an estimate at my house there ok that might my favorite feature of them is the

0:19:23remote control iPhone app that I turned off all learning stuff because it kind

0:19:26of just bought with me all the time but imagine that something that wanted to

0:19:31control didn't get along with me cause I want to control so big surprise right so

0:19:37no american off the wall yet because first of all the one of the reasons I

0:19:41got nothing else really does the remote control aspect while also looking

0:19:45reasonably nice in the rooms so that's one problem one of the problems though

0:19:51is is that this is still very new things so I'm not gonna like the wallet out of

0:19:57some you know spite or speculation of what Google / nest might do in the

0:20:02future that being said I wrote a post about to go too far into it but I don't

0:20:06think it's wise for anybody to assume that these things are going to magically

0:20:10remain completely separate obviously if they're going to make a separate why

0:20:14would Google spend a lot of money on it that's that's probably not what happened

0:20:18I i think you can look at what Google how googled acquisitions on this scale

0:20:25YouTube from 1.6 billion forever ago back when

0:20:29at the time nowadays acquisitions for a billion dollars are

0:20:33are almost commonplace but back then they weren't and at least the tech

0:20:37business and so you know when they bought YouTube it was it was very

0:20:42clearly video is a big thing on the internet and I think history has has

0:20:48supported that since then that was a very wise decision if they weren't if

0:20:52they didn't buy it

0:20:53Yahoo Microsoft will probably gonna buy it and it it's a very good thing you got

0:20:57it for them because video is very very important represents tons of traffic

0:21:01activity on the internet so they they kinda had to do that when Facebook

0:21:07bought Instagram that was also over a billion wasn't it was or wasn't exactly

0:21:11what was exactly one billion right someone that I believe is around two

0:21:14billion so Facebook bought Instagram because they were threatened and freaked

0:21:18out because Facebook's primary like most used application is Photo Sharing and

0:21:25there was a huge world of photo sharing happening on the social network that was

0:21:29dominating mobile so it was competing with things Facebook users the most on

0:21:34mobile where Facebook was still pretty weak and was dead did not have a strong

0:21:38foothold in this was a major threat to Facebook that's why is like rush the

0:21:43deal through and and regardless of it being like right before their IPO and

0:21:46possibly having problems with that like he pushed through his he's a smart guy

0:21:50he knew this was a threat right now going back to Google they recently when

0:21:54I more recently the new to at least they bought Motorola Mobility for a twelve

0:21:59billion I don't remember I think Google which is it didn't remember to do so

0:22:06google buys Motorola Mobility for something like twelve billion and it

0:22:11seemed like the reason they bought it was cuz they were threatened and freaked

0:22:14out again just like you know you're buying YouTube they were threatening

0:22:18freaked out Facebook by Instagram they were they were threatened and right so

0:22:23Google buying Motorola they were threatening freaked out because all this

0:22:27patent stuff is going on around and raining very important to them in the

0:22:30Android Market was kind of becoming the Samsung market and it was kinda nice to

0:22:35prop somebody else up a little bit just for diversity sake and competition so it

0:22:40was mostly about patents I think adding that in the industry bears out so far

0:22:45but you know looking at that didn't turn out so well it seems like it was a

0:22:49sloppy move it seems like it was it was maybe not bought through maybe maybe not

0:22:54enough diligence down on what the value of these patents actually might be

0:22:57whatever the reason it seemed like it was kind of a rash decision at the time

0:23:01that a lot of people by surprise and so far has proven not to have really been

0:23:06worth it so this brings us to nest what what the heck they want with nest there

0:23:12is a good post on our friend Ben Thompson States trajectory that right

0:23:16finally think strategically too long it got the little things every child I

0:23:22pronounced in my head start a career but I believe its strategic re okay I think

0:23:26you're right so anyway so it's a Ben Thompson at street Stratego rewrote this

0:23:31is nice piece in the show notes about this might be Google's new business

0:23:37model getting into that that all of their previous business models have been

0:23:41focused on advertising and the number of people using the internet continuing to

0:23:47grow tremendously but apparently we're starting to reach the limits of the

0:23:51world population and economic realities such that the number of people using the

0:23:56internet the growth peak of that is going to end in a couple of years it was

0:24:02gonna start slowing down significantly so it's Google's relying on more and

0:24:08more people using the internet looking at their ads every day for all their

0:24:11future business it's kind of it almost saturated in notes it's not that it's

0:24:16not drinking it's not going to stop all growth but the growth is going to slow

0:24:20down a lot so his theory is that you're getting into devices getting into

0:24:26hardware might be there next new business model arm because advertising

0:24:31might be saturated for them or or close to it I don't know because so let's look

0:24:39at what they bought here they bought a company that is not very old sells

0:24:45products you know to a good volume but not like we're talking like an apple or

0:24:50Samsung kind of volume of products they're they're shipping here

0:24:53manufacturing so they're not buying a huge supply chain they're they're buying

0:24:58some good retail connection certainly but but not something you're not not the

0:25:02kind of connection that like a phone or computer OEM would have for instance so

0:25:08I think one of the biggest things that they're buying what appears to be a

0:25:12pretty good staff having Tony Fadell on the team is is probably gonna be a

0:25:17pretty big win but they're saying they're keeping nest separate and he's

0:25:21gonna keep running nest the next part of it so I don't know it kind of feels like

0:25:26that's a lot of money to have spent on a company that I'm not entirely sure how

0:25:33Google is really going to get that amount of value added this company

0:25:37what do you think so could it be in Akwa higher it's way too expensive for that

0:25:42for three billion I just how many employees using this house I i mean

0:25:48probably probably a couple hundred and I'm just gets a couple hundred that's

0:25:51why would I would say it's between 1,500 would be my guess based on no facts

0:25:56you're thinking like programmers know companies companies have way more staff

0:26:02than a lot then a program intended as made myself included because once you

0:26:07leave the engineering department and you get into like retail sales support

0:26:11manufacturing all that stuff it's massively people intensive they prob

0:26:15they probably have a couple hundred guess I didn't even do I thought you had

0:26:18to internet online and retail stores yet there in Best Buy that it had a big

0:26:22block deal at Best Buy and then the Apple Store yep like whatever it is 3.2

0:26:27billion is a lot of money for a project that I is a luxury product that I don't

0:26:32think cells in any kind of both their products are luxury products because if

0:26:36you just wanna smoke detector thermostat you can get them way cheaper right and

0:26:39your house already has a thermostat only you know people with expendable income

0:26:43or tech nerds want to replace something and people just gonna go to Walmart get

0:26:48the cheap smoked chicken they can to be up to code it would take the battery out

0:26:52never put it back in like these are luxury items they have to be low volume

0:26:56there's not a lot of employees is not a lot of intellectual property there I

0:26:59would imagine

0:27:00you're getting a superstar Tony Fadell mister iPod but like that's one person

0:27:05up and 3.2 billion for him I i kind of I think the the penetration of Internet

0:27:12you know the growth peak thing is a real thing but I'm not sure that's

0:27:16particularly related to the next acquisition I think the easiest for the

0:27:19next acquisition is the obvious one which is Google

0:27:23loves information they have you know that's that's what they found so much

0:27:26like they love advertising or they'll of information and some people think it's

0:27:31because they're even then I spy and everything but like I see it from their

0:27:35perspective is a sort of perspective is like think of the cool things you could

0:27:39do we had more information what if we had pictures of every street United

0:27:43States what if we did what we did the inside of those like that you would go

0:27:46from right from the street into the inside of buildings and walk around you

0:27:49know if they could have live cameras on every street in the united states they

0:27:52would do that instead of having no pictures you know in the satellite but

0:27:55it's only bet we have what we can tell you where location GPS no phones is a

0:28:00great tool we can tell you're on your way home from work and what your traffic

0:28:03is like when you're gonna be there and all that other stuff you can do what if

0:28:06we had centers in your home look at what temperature is whether your home and the

0:28:11temperature outside like you can do cool things that information but they have

0:28:15this is basically a massively massively distributed computing infrastructure for

0:28:19information for their motto like to organize the world's information the

0:28:25temperature of your house is part of that world information across what

0:28:29freaks people out about it but I like think of what does ness makes things to

0:28:34gather information from inside people's homes I agree with everything you just

0:28:39said that that they they can derive value out of that of the data the

0:28:44connections the installed base of being at people houses but I can't see them

0:28:49getting three billion dollars worth of value out of that from this company

0:28:53well this company figured out how way to sell people sensors that go in their

0:28:56homes that are connected to the network and thus far google has been bad that

0:28:59Google would love to have more centers in people's homes that are connected to

0:29:03the network and we we don't sell a lot of them and we just felt early adopters

0:29:08for now but we found a way to celebrate have enough style and cachet to be

0:29:12interesting to ninety people Marco bhagwan right that's what I was writing

0:29:15their meeting this one about four that's what they should read in their slide in

0:29:20there you know Google you should acquire US next slide Marco but for us it's like

0:29:25you know it baby steps right I don't get this is part of a big initiative I don't

0:29:30think it's because Google wants to start selling iPods are you know consumer

0:29:35hardware they want to sell things that feed information back into this giant

0:29:39thing that is Google yes and I and I think you're right but we're also not

0:29:44considering that it's more than just Tony Fadell it's also as per some people

0:29:50who probably don't know like the chat and talk about them but the child has

0:29:54been quoting 0 a hundred or a hundred and plus X Apple employees and do you

0:29:59think that three billion is that a hundred Apple employees that are

0:30:04presumably very good lost Tony Fadell

0:30:06is worth three billion I don't think so but maybe maybe there's more talent

0:30:11there than we realize you have to retain that town like you mean depending on who

0:30:16gets what stock options and what your golden handcuffs on how long you have to

0:30:19stay at the company to get your whatever your gonna get like it is a good way to

0:30:24get good employees but the best employees are as restless as they they

0:30:30get the startup they make the cool thing to get acquired by the big company this

0:30:33day the big company this year they repeat that process because they just

0:30:36want to move on to new things and don't want to be a cog in the machine but I

0:30:41mean I like of all the companies they could have acquired nest is not so

0:30:46outlandish the price seems outlandish to me even with the supposedly 200 to 500

0:30:51employees it's still still seems like a lot of money but you know there but

0:30:56they're buying based on what they think the future value Google is not how much

0:31:00investors work with its how much nest is worth to Google I think nest for example

0:31:04how much one st worth to Apple is it worth 3.2 billion to get those hundred

0:31:08employees back

0:31:09maybe maybe not Arness products worth that much I think that Apple would turn

0:31:14his nose at the process if we want to design a thermostat we could have done

0:31:18just to get a job if not better and same thing for the smoke hookah not say that

0:31:22go with it which are designed to be shaped like a steer nobody would ever

0:31:26ship i mean i think i think i think is Ben Thompson in one of these articles

0:31:33are that you know like him go he says keep the company's simple we know we we

0:31:38do a few things well Apple would never buy it because they like Apple doesn't

0:31:43buy companies that have existing products on the market place they have

0:31:46to keep supporting they don't don't do that that's not their style with a

0:31:49biologic and then stop making for anything that's always wanted to buy

0:31:54intel inside and we're not selling chips anyone else anymore so I guess that

0:31:58would be amazing it would've been amazing like four years ago and just

0:32:03take all that business I guess but like that would that would make everyone hate

0:32:07Apple that would also like if you really cared about personal computer market

0:32:12share by Intel and stop selling the chips and I'll see what they would hurt

0:32:16the most by the server world because like

0:32:19on PCs who cares people use whatever the heck is cheap and they don't care and

0:32:22the PC market is dying anyway but in the server world intel has a massive lead

0:32:27over everybody else and that that would suck I will never do that because it'll

0:32:30be super expensive and Apple shareholders were punished severely for

0:32:34buyers to prospective company and then cutting off almost all of its encounter

0:32:38I have to imagine to the department of justice would would possibly have a

0:32:42problem with the with that money I don't know if they would because like it in

0:32:45the Intel is the big dog and the chip space but there's there's a bunch of

0:32:49people who fab ARM chips and there's AMD sitting over there going hey we sell

0:32:53chips the servers to the nobody will be slightly better but it's more than

0:32:58slightly that's the problem it's not a day like they're in the fight

0:33:04hey what would hold the game consoles AMD got that contract that was that was

0:33:08about price in servers it's it's about performance per watt always wonder why

0:33:13Intel didn't compete for the harder for the impasse surely Intel could have

0:33:16gotten the game console thing if it wanted it but there was like 10

0:33:19that but let let him to have well it's probably because correct me if I'm wrong

0:33:24are all these game console CPUs not x86 know there are six AMD AMD has

0:33:31particular assets to make it good because I can put you know it has the I

0:33:35forget what they're interconnect buses cease to be HyperTransport wherever it

0:33:39is like AMD is good at making you know integrated single-chip solutions which

0:33:44is what the game consoles need it so they I think they were better tailored

0:33:48to that and the margins has to be way way low on the game consoles so why

0:33:52wouldn't tell bend over backward to make its custom tailored single-chip solution

0:33:57for game consoles and their reward is super low margins compared to the

0:34:01martyrs they're getting on the CPU that they're selling less of myself but they

0:34:04sell into the server space those margins are much nicer so I don't know intel

0:34:08intel has a problem in terms of what their future business gonna be like but

0:34:11they didn't go for the game consoles maybe would be good for them to get in

0:34:15but I was reacting to something which aaron is saying what what would be the

0:34:21equivalent purchase for Apple and Google bison as far as apple pie beats me I I

0:34:27wish a few years ago they would have bought Twitter because I think that

0:34:30would have given them not only is not only a massive foothold in a very

0:34:34important area called social networks something about in the last few years

0:34:38but it also would have given them a massive staff and has had a run major

0:34:42web services they tried right well I mean I'm gonna try two years ago but

0:34:46it's just it's not their style to buy large established companies that are not

0:34:51directly related to what they're doing you know i i wouldn't see them really

0:34:55doing something like this that that that that's the problem is like there is no

0:34:59Apple equivalent to this cause they wouldn't they wouldn't do something like

0:35:02this in all likelihood likes to have their taking you to they want other

0:35:06companies they need other companies help but they want the other companies to

0:35:09assume all the risk and they want a bunch of other companies to compete for

0:35:13the honor of assuming all their risk for them so they will paid billions of

0:35:16dollars for some company to buy equipment to build their stuff but it's

0:35:20like you know after you finish making all those widgets for us the next which

0:35:24it might go to a different factory and we say goodbye to you you're not a

0:35:27problem anymore we don't worry about your employees are not to worry about

0:35:29higher than me

0:35:30future it's like totally you know they're they're in a power position is

0:35:34that we we have lucrative contracts to build things everybody wants our

0:35:37contracts

0:35:38why would we ever by a chip manufacturer with the fam for whatever lemme the fans

0:35:42this is the one thing that's different than the other stuff because there are

0:35:46only few fans in the world's fastest so insanely expensive intel has the best

0:35:49one and Apple seems to be saying we can make your own chips we give them a

0:35:53little names of days letters is like a tea and they're cool India and Ike and

0:35:59redesign the many patients Tampa whatever but they they fancy themselves

0:36:04like we control our own destiny because we haven't armed license and we tell me

0:36:08pay someone to feed them and now we don't have to worry not beholden to

0:36:10Intel chips of just true you know you don't worry about paying into Martin's

0:36:14but you're now at the mercy of three possible fams one of which is Intel and

0:36:21I you know are much I soon will continue licensing its things far and wide or we

0:36:25don't need our modem maker on architecture be fine but those fags like

0:36:29I guess would be collusion of they all got together and said they were going to

0:36:32crank up the prices for Apple but they're not really controlled their own

0:36:36destiny when I mean for Samsung spending so much of their stuff still that should

0:36:41tell them something so I would actually encourage Apple to consider buying intel

0:36:46sometime in the future when the weaker smaller until then and you don't think

0:36:51they would want Dropbox I don't think they would but I'm thinking what is what

0:36:56are Apple's big weaknesses at the moment and I think relying on other fabs is a

0:37:02great example and as we've whined about ad nauseam on this show in just about

0:37:07every other podcasts covers Apple iCloud services are an issue and and who is

0:37:12really really good cloud services twitter has gotten their Instagram is

0:37:17but too late

0:37:18tumblr is but too late you know so what's left and and since Steve flirted

0:37:25with the idea of Dropbox if memory serves now they want they want to buy

0:37:30Dropbox totally but if that story if any of those stories are to be believed and

0:37:34I didn't see you like Apple people categorically denying them

0:37:37they want me to send you have any concrete evidence that they wanted to

0:37:42buy Twitter but it's assumed I didn't read the twenty books maybe that's in

0:37:45there and Dropbox as soon as Steve Jobs come visit your company tells you your

0:37:50projects crap that means that people always talk about that incident with

0:37:55Dropbox know Apple should have bought them and i wish i buy Dropbox trust me

0:37:58you don't wish for that if you like Dropbox at all because it happened but

0:38:02Dropbox it probably would have been for the talent and maybe some of the

0:38:08algorithms or sink techniques maybe but mostly for the talent and they probably

0:38:13have shut down the product or ruined it and and not having a fab is not a

0:38:17weakness of appalachia again I think apples in a strength to dismiss like we

0:38:20don't need to assume this risk of having these Vegas kinds of things other people

0:38:24will assume all the risk and will get all the benefits as long as he manages

0:38:27relationships but it's a minor difficulty of the uncomfortable

0:38:32situation of relying so heavily on your biggest competitor that just like well

0:38:36that just kind of happened but by the same token like that's billions of

0:38:40dollars changing hands and it's it's kind of weird that you're paying Samsung

0:38:43and Samsung's not going to say we refuse your billions of dollars like now

0:38:48they're gonna keep taking your going down as long as you're so Apple is

0:38:50trying to transition away but it's not like I know we're in a weak position to

0:38:54go home and Samsung could refuse are billions of dollars to buy chips

0:38:57sentence can keep taking their money as long as you keep offering it is just

0:39:01like I keep looking at Intel because that is a strategic advantage I get into

0:39:05a sitting there off to the side with an architecture that nobody wants her

0:39:08mobile but the best dad in the world and I'm not sure what their plan is but if I

0:39:13was a huge company Samsung Google Apple it'd be like you know we could have an

0:39:17easy 10 15 10 perhaps larger percent advantage over all of our competitors if

0:39:24we just a bit more precise than they could seriously they could and that

0:39:29would just not something they can you know if you if you get intel's fads what

0:39:33is it what is your competitors recourse they can't catch up to you they can't

0:39:37like whip SMC harder's I work harder than 40 nanometers come on guys gonna do

0:39:45better I think that's what I 17 connectors be doing

0:39:49its entire life is trying to get better on the are getting better but for now

0:39:52until as late so I keep looking at them and so few people pointed out to me last

0:39:58brought this up and when when the people including our friend Ben Thompson we're

0:40:01talking about this one of the problems is that supposedly people who are

0:40:06smarter than me at the stuff figured out that intellectual doesn't have anywhere

0:40:09near the capacity to fap things for Apple put things right away rather well

0:40:15that's a South why did you just say that story that Intel close to the new brand

0:40:19new famine and Arizona before or even opening it before even starting to that

0:40:23chips on it there's a multi-billion dollar that they built the building and

0:40:27everything they just didn't buy the family the super expensive fabric opened

0:40:31up like two-thirds of the cost of the entire center but instead of buying

0:40:34equipment installing it there just like saying just leave that aside for now cuz

0:40:37they were going to find their stuff there instead they said they're gonna

0:40:40414 enemy stuff in their existing fads and the reason it's speculated that

0:40:45doing that is because they don't have enough customers to warrant opening an

0:40:48entire new that so it's like if you know if you buy it they will build if they

0:40:56had if Apple Sunday said hey in 2012 to Feb all of our stuff someday they would

0:41:00say great we have all those excess capacity there were currently not usable

0:41:04by that it will install it in that building will start building more like

0:41:07that's a problem Intel is happy to have but right now has had the opposite

0:41:12problem that they were building with expectations of the regrowth would

0:41:15continue on the current trend but like a dip in the PC market and like the

0:41:19prominence of mobiles making it so well we set out to many many years ago we set

0:41:23out to build this giant famine Arizona looks like we're not even gonna need it

0:41:26so just keep it on pause there maybe we'll need it later I think intel would

0:41:31love to to fulfill Apple's needs but it's by increasing its capacity do you

0:41:36think intel will eat crow anytime soon do you think it will stop being so proud

0:41:40and allow themselves to have Apple bully them into a deal because he know Apple

0:41:44to your point earlier won't go into a deal must extremely lucrative for

0:41:48Apple's well or perhaps maybe if it totally screw Samsung's so do you think

0:41:54that Apple would get

0:41:56despots right word but punchy enough to to give Samsung middle finger and

0:42:00simultaneously Intel will get desperate enough to take on Apple I think that's

0:42:07the only thing you can scare up with it would be like well I know we've been

0:42:11going back and forth and we keep saying you gotta take a clear and you keep

0:42:14saying just fab are chipas is an arm and we can ever come to agreement but you

0:42:19know Samsung is over here and there talking to us and they want us to get

0:42:22you could try to make them jealous like look if you don't do it Samsung is going

0:42:26to you know it's stupid and make some deals and they'll get you know they'll

0:42:30they'll get our heads and you work on their own stupid their shameless

0:42:34they are quite smart true I i don't i don't see that I think we're at an

0:42:41impasse until someone's power position changes drastically until his look at

0:42:44the way we care into Apple gets way stronger Intel Samsung its way stronger

0:42:47in the current scenario I think if in any negotiations between these three

0:42:52companies you know many pairs of these three companies were kind of it at the

0:42:57status quo that is no reason that Intel should bend over backward to take the

0:43:00apples deals now there's no reason that Apple should bend over backwards and

0:43:03stay out until we need you so bad because they don't like nobody knows

0:43:06anybody that badly to make it a done deal at this point so nothing happens

0:43:10right but just look how long it took to get in tellin to max and for a long time

0:43:16the writing was on the wall that aimed at Apple was in a weak position Apple

0:43:19desperately needed a CPU solution Intel is willing to offer it and even that

0:43:23took forever to come to pass so I think we're far from that kind of power

0:43:26imbalance here it's here

0:43:29anything else about Nesta three guys think about the privacy paranoia stuff

0:43:37well before you do that let's let's do the second thing we like this week it is

0:43:41our friends at transporter so transporter we've talked about

0:43:46transporter a lot before to review in the new stuff but to review transporter

0:43:50is its cool product which is basically it works in software like Dropbox but

0:43:56it's a hardware external drive enclosure that you own and control so you you buy

0:44:03this enclosure or the or their new protocol transporters sink which has a

0:44:06USB port you plug in

0:44:08any any external hard drive the already have you buy this enclosure or this

0:44:13adapter for just an enclosure and your hard drive becomes a cloud storage drive

0:44:19and its private and it's secure everything is encrypted back and forth

0:44:22over the internet so you can have you can have this thing in your house and

0:44:27you can have another one in somebody else's house or your office you can have

0:44:30certain folders or the whole thing's sink to each other

0:44:33you could install software on your computer or any other computers or even

0:44:37on your iPhone or Android devices and iOS Android devices use me and you can

0:44:42have you can access everything over the internet from that hard drive it sitting

0:44:47in your house and all these folders on these files are not stored in the cloud

0:44:52they are stored only on that drive or whatever you whatever computers are

0:44:56seeking to it so everything is private and secure its easier for certain

0:45:01regulatory compliance is easier for personal privacy and for you know if

0:45:06your principles or or standards are such that you don't want to store stuff on

0:45:09cloud drives if you're worried about security or the NSA it's really just

0:45:13this very nice product for that this kind of hard to explain things but trust

0:45:19me I just think of it like Dropbox where you own the hard drive that everything

0:45:23stored on and they have awesome software you install a desktop they have a new

0:45:30features in version 2.4 now you can you can select to automatically sync your

0:45:36special user folders on Mac OS 10 you can say like think the desktop documents

0:45:41downloads movies pictures music like all these like special media or destination

0:45:46folders you can have those sync with Florida transport automatically and sync

0:45:50between any computers you have connected to the transporter so I think about the

0:45:54the possible uses of that I mean that's that's incredibly have all your photos

0:45:57sent from your photos directory no special directories not not an islamic

0:46:01the Dropbox folder anything not a network share you can have everything

0:46:04synced locally that's that's really powerful you can also upload photos

0:46:08directly from your iOS device to your transporter with their with their iPhone

0:46:12iPhone and iPad apps really great stuff going on there they're really they're

0:46:16doing a lot of improvements to the software they're adding new capabilities

0:46:18all the time of these things and best of all

0:46:21their prices robbery pretty good and now they've cut their prices for the

0:46:25transport of hard drives in them by $50 so now the two terabyte transport model

0:46:31is just 349 a one terabyte transporter is just 249 500 gigs just $1.99 and you

0:46:40can get the transporter sink little tits it's like a little disk almost that and

0:46:45that that's all you can plug in your own hard drive and that's just $99 so it's a

0:46:49really really good deal here and there is no monthly fees you know any kind of

0:46:54clouds are you gonna pay monthly fees with transporter it you own the drive

0:46:58you guys buying up front and then that's it there's no monthly fee to access

0:47:01things even the sinking procedure that happens over the internet there's no fee

0:47:05for that it's just your own it so really great go to File transporter dot com

0:47:11slash ATP you can watch to have a sandwich video which we love we love our

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0:47:27save another 10% off I go by buying transfers the company store go to File

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0:47:36thanks a lot to file transporter for sponsoring our show once again so John

0:47:40you had just asked about privacy do you care to restate the question sir Marcus

0:47:48is the most the most aunty Google amongst us a lot of people free hand

0:47:53over privacy concerns that not only other testifies going to start spying on

0:47:57them but now like nest previously the company that they loved and trusted is

0:48:02going to start making your products that come pre-installed with Google's evil

0:48:06and all spy on you and steal your school and do whatever they do and you said

0:48:11your not gonna get rid of your nice things but how do you feel about the

0:48:15like previously if we have seen how do you feel about the company now right

0:48:19whatever it now as I don't know Google has them there now they're evil I would

0:48:23certainly hasn't hit me forever buying another one that's that's for sure but i

0:48:29think im not gonna lie I don't hate

0:48:34Google I i mean I'm kind of just a maybe a skeptic or maybe a cynic but certainly

0:48:40a skeptic and and by that I mean you know I don't mean that I look at

0:48:43everything and try to find the worst possible interpretation I just try I

0:48:48look at things like I try to cut through the corporate speak and the you know hey

0:48:53we're all friends here kind of a translation translation Petra decision

0:48:58to cut through all that and because corporate communication is is just

0:49:05infected with bloat and and euphemism and just just diversions you know all

0:49:11this crap 22 can decode bad news or to hide things they don't really want you

0:49:18to think about or they are that are in communion for you to think about and

0:49:23this this you know we used to think that the tech industry was different a real

0:49:27and and now the tech industry is big enough that that's not the case at a

0:49:31chemistry is just as much corporate crap and all the communications everybody

0:49:33else does so I tried to cut through all that and and look at things

0:49:38realistically because history has proven that all these nice candy-coated

0:49:42statements from the big tech companies there is usually a real truth there that

0:49:47that's less pretty if you if you think about it so and history has proven that

0:49:53that is usually the case once you see like you know what companies say versus

0:49:57what happens and what happens next and what happens two years later I i think

0:50:02im not be unreasonable as lot of this stuff so I can always write that

0:50:06everyone turns evil or anything but I think I think history has shown that

0:50:11there's good reason to be skeptical of what companies tell you is good reason

0:50:15to cut through some of this crap that tries to candy coating spending so I

0:50:20look at what they're doing here and I say well you know obviously they say now

0:50:25that you don't have to worry we're keeping these companies as a separate as

0:50:29separate units and nested will only be used for improved Nestor products and

0:50:33services but obviously that doesn't really mean anything because they can

0:50:37always change that because privacy policies can always be changed as they

0:50:40can change that and

0:50:43the definition of what exactly a nest products and services can be so broad

0:50:46once they're owned by Google then you know it doesn't really matter so if

0:50:52you're concerned about ness data being used by Google

0:50:57valid concern and I don't think you can trust anything that they say to the

0:51:01contrary that you shouldn't be concerned about that I think if you don't want

0:51:05Google knowing stuff that your nest can find out or can or can infer then that's

0:51:14a valid concern and and their statements have not done anything to alleviate that

0:51:19to any critical eye that being said me personally I don't I don't care that

0:51:23strongly about it you know I don't know if I cared so strongly I would block

0:51:28Google in my hosts file and and just not ever use any of their services in block

0:51:33all their beds everywhere and and just be fine with that I don't care strongly

0:51:39about it about it you know i i try to keep a somewhat healthy distance from

0:51:44google but I still use their stuff when it's the best tool for the job for them

0:51:47doing and just so I still use search I still use maps and probably some of the

0:51:53stuff I'm not even aware of my studies analytics on my site even though I hate

0:51:56it and so you know I strongly about it and I think caring so strongly to try to

0:52:04avoid one company went like like bending over backwards to avoid one company is

0:52:10usually just hurting yourself and you know it's it's like when people had a

0:52:15bad experience flying somewhere and I'm never gonna fly Delta never again there

0:52:20at airlines at five years exactly exactly and that's all the stuff is like

0:52:27this every tech giant Apple included does stuff that I don't like and it

0:52:31offends me and so you just gonna have to have to look at pragmatism and say well

0:52:35ok you know I I could go go . men or I could be useful and and its use to have

0:52:44things be a little bit easier and everybody makes the same trade off

0:52:47that's why all these ad-supported creepy services are able to exist and thrive so

0:52:52well because everyone is making the same tradeoff people say I don't want to pay

0:52:54for email hosting

0:52:55final go to Gmail it's good enough for a TV or its the best in their opinion and

0:53:00that's fine with them so you know everyone has a line where they draw to

0:53:04say like well I will tolerate you know X amount of ads / creepiness slash costs

0:53:11to me I will tolerate that in exchange for the service apart they want to use

0:53:16and you know I just I'm not saying that you should necessarily move that line

0:53:22and where you draw it I just think it's worth knowing what you're getting into

0:53:26and and and looking at things critically I think I'm probably the biggest Google

0:53:32fan amongst us to use more of their products like I use Gmail as my mail

0:53:37calendar and let us use this search how I even use Google Plus sometimes I have

0:53:44course you're doing everything and I think I think we're a lot of the

0:53:49commentary on Google Nexus 10 Google privacy concerns from your market but

0:53:55also from other people

0:53:56goes wrong is not so much in what's going to happen but why some of the good

0:54:03thing about you know it's obviously nice and cool stuff can be integrated and you

0:54:07know they're they're going to share data and anything else does

0:54:11by definition is to improve ness products that Samuel statement and blah

0:54:15blah so they're going to be connected schools going to connect up all the

0:54:19information do always through all the other products that's what Google does

0:54:22and I think a lot of those things could be cool

0:54:26could be could enhance Google's products can enhance national making us better

0:54:30make your Android phone better illegal search better maps better give me

0:54:34driving directions but like everything it's there's a lot of synergy as they

0:54:38say in the business between the speed sensors that more sensors and more data

0:54:43makes more intelligent decisions and that's all good and so I and i think

0:54:48that's mostly how Google season because they're the people who work there like

0:54:52thinking I like what can we do if we had all this information and people always

0:54:56wanted sensors and stuff in the home and you know things that smart smart homes

0:55:00and other crap in a way to make that happen so that's that's gonna happen

0:55:04right and

0:55:07the next thing is I okay well once that happens just saw happening kind of

0:55:12within one company you know Google even though its cool Nestor whatever this is

0:55:16all happening like some centralization of power group was already so powerful

0:55:20because it had searched everything and now just more and more information is

0:55:23accumulating in Google which is why people get this topic Google+

0:55:26integrating with you to comment and everything is like they want to think of

0:55:28it as silos those selling out behind the scenes and once it becomes clear to them

0:55:32this is all going to one place in the AM I got this one company know so much

0:55:36about me if I think what is Google know about me they know everything about you

0:55:40know you're worried about like the NSA having meditate on your phone calls and

0:55:43everything if you use all Google services they have way more information

0:55:46here that obviously different because the NSA is taking it unwillingly and

0:55:50that the government in it and I'm not saying this year equivalent to saying

0:55:52that a lot of information about you and Google and here's where I think it goes

0:55:57wrong what the danger of Google having all this information is not that Google

0:56:02is going to do terrible things with it the danger of Google having all the

0:56:05information is the Google will do something stupid or people will hack

0:56:10them although get them I mean just look at the target thing of getting on your

0:56:12credit card information on target any giant pool of information about people

0:56:17as a target and the more centralized that pool is in the more valuable

0:56:20information is in the more of it there is the more it to target and I don't

0:56:24think Google is going to get all this information and be evil with it although

0:56:28depending on your definition of evil that that may have already happened I

0:56:31think the danger is also information gathering into this big funnel into

0:56:36Google and Google will now that information to leak out into the world

0:56:40accidentally people get it from them it will leak out

0:56:42unintentionally because that's the nature of the things we've been putting

0:56:46credit cards and giant databases for years and we just kept doing that until

0:56:50finally you know there's a little change in the dam and some credit card or

0:56:54whatever ventures gonna be look every credit card every issue has now been

0:56:57stolen like netscape that's that's going to happen eventually because you this

0:57:00information is in too many places all over the place and I think where people

0:57:05go wrong with their Christmas and the like Google is mean and evil not doing

0:57:08this because they're even know

0:57:09incompetents it's gonna happen it what's gonna happen if they're doing it because

0:57:12they are well-intentioned and they want to meet cool products and then that

0:57:16information will get out because it's impossible not for it to get for it not

0:57:19to get

0:57:19out and then we're all screwed I think the thing that that people find alarming

0:57:25is that Google is getting demonstrable better over time at figuring you out and

0:57:34getting a more complete picture of who you are and what you do for example at

0:57:40work I was sitting there this was two or three months ago in somebody'd started

0:57:46like spazzing out at their computer and they were kind of modern themselves

0:57:49while whites and then the same almost exact same thing happened just a week or

0:57:54two ago what was going on was when that person with my co-workers went to KU to

0:58:00google.com it had like I didn't see myself but it it had like confetti or

0:58:05something and it said happy birthday you know John Smith because it knew that

0:58:10that day was a person's birthday because they were signed into Gmail or whatever

0:58:14the case may be and so on the Google homepage it said a happy birthday John

0:58:18and that they found to be very creepy not necessarily because wishing you a

0:58:23happy birthday is bad but it was taking information that yes they willingly

0:58:29provided to Google but maybe gmail for example and using it on google.com and

0:58:35just like you said John you know it's it's not really siloed but it sort of

0:58:41feels siloed to a normal persons myself included I use Gmail and I use Google

0:58:45Calendar and I i don't know if I go so far as to say I use these services

0:58:49begrudgingly but but I'm getting more and I'm giving it harder and harder side

0:58:53I with each passing year and I think that the again the real problem instead

0:58:58that Google's getting a more complete picture of who we are and to think that

0:59:02we're that they're getting a more complete picture of who we are even at

0:59:06home when we are our most unreserved is creepy now to argue with myself for a

0:59:13moment

0:59:13friend of the show steven hack it had a couple of really even had a couple

0:59:19really good tweets early today then read real quick he said maybe we should keep

0:59:22your pants on I don't particularly care for Google's policies but fearing your

0:59:25thermostat spying on you is nuts

0:59:27he went on to say I'm more upset about what seemed to be a cool innovative

0:59:32company leaving the market and I left gmail months ago and and i think that

0:59:36that was a nice way of saying we only to relax and this may not be so bad and I

0:59:42think that's both right and wrong I don't think it's going to be bad soon I

0:59:45don't think it may not be bad at all but the thing that creeps me out is when I

0:59:51was in college I was just graduating from Virginia Tech in 2004 when this is

0:59:57right around the time of Google Gmail came out and I remember covering a gmail

1:00:02invite like nobody's business for sale on eBay for like $100 exactly in so I

1:00:08wanted one so so badly and in soon I eventually had a friend at school that

1:00:16that got one and he gave me an invite in all my god I'm so excited because Google

1:00:21doesn't do evil it says it in the fridge amato they don't do evil and I was so

1:00:26excited have a gmail invite I can get away

1:00:28well I knew I was going to have to leave my my Virginia Tech email address and

1:00:32and I didn't have to go back to like Hotmail from when I was 10 and so man I

1:00:37was so excited to be on Gmail fast forward from 2004 to 2040 name a decade

1:00:42later and everytime Google does something I end up giving it harder and

1:00:47harder side I and I look at it again be like that you're doing the same thing

1:00:53though they got your friend who was freaked out about the birthday thing and

1:00:55you are both miss attributing your discomfort to Google Google does not

1:00:59have your your personal information does not have any value to Google in the way

1:01:04that you mean like now they know you're cheating on your wife and they have this

1:01:09information they're going to get that information is useless to Google unless

1:01:14they can sell you like you know what does that actually madison.com whatever

1:01:18that website is that you don't like it they there is no there is no person

1:01:22there

1:01:23salacious Lee trolling through the details information but the discomfort

1:01:27you feel is founded in its founded in not the Google is gonna do evil things

1:01:30with your thing is that once Google has that information

1:01:34everybody else who would want that information knows exactly where to get

1:01:38they go to Google if you want to find out

1:01:40what's going on in someone's life well guess what I know where there's enough

1:01:43information you think of a politician who uses Google services I bet their

1:01:47competitor in a close race would love to get every bit of information Google has

1:01:51about them

1:01:52Google's not going to use that information it is not in Google's best

1:01:54interest

1:01:55probably to shoot sway the the the outcome of political races are a move

1:02:00politics is about choices actually prolly would be cool interest but i

1:02:03think im just like more mundane things like I know you know that you didn't go

1:02:08to school today because I tractor your GPS was on your Android phone to your

1:02:11check-ins and I'm gonna tell your parents that you didn't go to school

1:02:13Google is not gonna do that it is really dumb to do evil things with that

1:02:18information but once Google has information which one that information

1:02:21is in one place everybody else who wants to do bad things to you and the mundane

1:02:27you know your random dirty guy down the block or a bunch of hackers who want to

1:02:31get it and sell it to people who want to use it or whatever that's the problem

1:02:34and so on people when you giving you a hard side I it's not that you shouldn't

1:02:39be afraid the Google is gonna do evil stuff because that would be incredibly

1:02:42stupid for Google to do evil stuff to you it wouldn't it would not be in their

1:02:46interest but you you do know that they have this information and you do know

1:02:50there's someone out there who would want another network together

1:02:52yeah and I think you're right but it's not necessarily about Google doing evil

1:02:58it's about the mundane things that you think should fly under everyone's radar

1:03:05anymore let me give you a concrete example friend of mine at work my buddy

1:03:09George he said to me oh you know I was looking up how much it would be to pay

1:03:14off the rest of the loan in my car and he said I did this on Saturday that will

1:03:20get this case he's come monday I got a call from my dealer that I bought the

1:03:27car from saying hey man you know everything about coming in and upgrading

1:03:30your car and there was something else he had said mean I don't recall what it was

1:03:34but it was a couple of me begun email from someone someone else that wanted to

1:03:39like get him into a new BMW

1:03:42he has a BMW now and so it was very creepy that him doing nothing but

1:03:48looking at how much it would cost to finish his loan

1:03:51presumably mean that we don't know this for sure but presumably led to some

1:03:57dealer calling him in saying hey do you want to get into new BMW I bet we can

1:04:02make that happen in so the point of driving this was a very mundane thing

1:04:06that he didn't think would make any difference and suddenly he's now getting

1:04:11heckled from a dealer because of it and I think Google having a more complete

1:04:15picture of who each one of us is could lead to things like that in another

1:04:20example is tight I in the chat earlier said I read the same article but I

1:04:24forget the details that target had started emailing some woman's some young

1:04:30ladies dad because I like shared a credit card or something like that

1:04:34information like hey we think you might like the following things and the things

1:04:40were all things for new moms so target had deduced based on the purchases that

1:04:45that the young woman made that she was probably pregnant and will probably need

1:04:49the following things and so her dad found out that his daughter was that

1:04:54that the daughter was pregnant by way of target saying hey we think you might

1:04:57want the following and that's just weird like that was old world tech tracking

1:05:03your credit cards for decades and you know that you don't need too much

1:05:06information about is where how do you make the system work because in one in

1:05:10some respects inevitable that is going to be more information but always out

1:05:13there and it's getting more interconnected and that's just the

1:05:14bottom line like there's no turning back on it because the usefulness of these

1:05:17two great outweighs the same thing with credit card when you pay for everything

1:05:20with cash nobody knew what you bought the credit card their way to get me and

1:05:23we are willing to live with the fact that the credit card company knows

1:05:25everything we buy we made that decision

1:05:27decades ago everyone's ok with it the thought of it is sometimes targets and

1:05:31you i think for baby toys and your dad finds out whether that's the tradeoff

1:05:35we've made right but as the saying goes up I think our laws need to keep up with

1:05:40it and i think that what we're missing here in these laws and again setting

1:05:43aside the NSA for now because that's that's extra legal they are the Law

1:05:47Judge Dredd what we're missing here is like I i think there's no there's no

1:05:54turning back the tide there's no going full stahlman and saying you can't

1:05:58collect this information or whatever

1:05:59or trying to do some sort of like information no anti anti-trust like

1:06:05monopoly thing like Oh no one company and have X amount of information about

1:06:08you I don't you think that's going to work for you have to do is say look we

1:06:11know you're going to collect all the information but it's illegal to do XYZ

1:06:15with that information about you know it's illegal to look at that information

1:06:19would have to be like private the encrypted it's illegal for you to sell

1:06:22that information it like right now in school has an information of yours there

1:06:25are very few limits on what they can do it right and what should should be like

1:06:30you know you can collect all this information but understand you're

1:06:33collecting for my benefit so I can know how long I can use gonna take some

1:06:36iPhone can tell me that my wife is running late and just went to the store

1:06:39like but if you can't certainly can't give that information to anyone else and

1:06:44if it you know if we find out someone in your company is looking at information

1:06:48it's a felony and they go to jail like there is a gap in the law which because

1:06:52the laws don't expect any one company to know that much about one person right

1:06:56now laws like hey you totally click degree you totally signed up to give

1:07:00information Google owns that information that's not part of your life and that's

1:07:04the gap that we have the needs to be addressed because there's no way you can

1:07:09stop them from collecting I think we all want them to collect it we just want to

1:07:11know that information is being collected on our behalf and there are strict

1:07:15limits on what they can do with that information and if you violate those

1:07:18limits bad thing happens to individuals to companies I don't know what chance

1:07:23did we ever get a loss like that but that's i think that's that's what needs

1:07:27to happen because the other things are just not going to happen we're not going

1:07:29to stop them from collecting

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1:10:31com Thanks for sponsoring the show was thinking about laws that protect privacy

1:10:37of information held by private companies and the thing that should have occurred

1:10:40to me because it's related to my work is HIPAA existing law for protecting your

1:10:46health information and that's the case where the information was sensitive

1:10:50enough that there was the political capital to make laws to address this

1:10:55because I okay well your doctors have information about your health and most

1:10:59people feel that that's so sensitive that like ok I'm giving you the

1:11:03information about health but you can give it to me when you want you only

1:11:06information about my health you can't tell my boss that I have some incurable

1:11:10disease are you know even my wife with that mouth like this that information is

1:11:14private and so there are laws saying what what people who deal with health

1:11:18information can and can't do it now those laws I think are still two lakhs

1:11:22working for healthcare company in terms of like what the punishments are because

1:11:27if if you first of all people people who work with healthcare information if they

1:11:33have a business-related reason to see it it's okay for them to see it you know as

1:11:37part of their work you know working on information systems and how the West how

1:11:41could they deal with it right but if you see information that you're not supposed

1:11:46to order technically isn't a work-related reason the penalties to the

1:11:49company in the individual are probably not as severe as they should be

1:11:53especially at the company level if they do find nothing values were set some

1:11:56time when the law was made in its like that's like you know seven hours of

1:11:59revenue for our company who cares not a big deal like you don't want to be like

1:12:03the cost of doing business so any kind of law that's protecting information

1:12:07like this it's cool to have health care information I think they probably had

1:12:10some health care issues like every other company has at some point but for the

1:12:13most part no they don't have

1:12:15wasn't that part of the the island plan that all your health information would

1:12:19be open source or something every every company has done some kind of weird

1:12:24every company has done something involving health care fictional and real

1:12:27but if you would look at a certain point I think the accumulation of information

1:12:33that Google has about you will be

1:12:35more of a privacy concern then information protected by hip especially

1:12:40for like it you know

1:12:42for most people who are you don't have either maybe you know how much else be

1:12:45like Google know where you every second of the day what you're doing and where

1:12:48your comings and goings are what your what your searches are whatever you mail

1:12:51to and from you it said what your text messages said you know where I am like

1:12:55they will no way of getting back to the usual political opponent if you are

1:13:01given two choices you can have complete access to your political opponents

1:13:03healthcare records are you could have complete access to their entire

1:13:06everything Google knows about them you if you were a betting man you'd sell

1:13:10technical information please because unless there's some health information

1:13:13like he has a terminal disease or something that's that's your only real

1:13:17chance like don't like them is going to die soon but the Google information boy

1:13:20you know especially with ongoing given to Google information feed on my

1:13:24opponent that super valuable so just the laws the government who can do the

1:13:29information we give them should already be stronger than the HIPAA and hip I

1:13:33think could be stronger still so we're far from that but welcome to America one

1:13:40thing that gives me hope is here I wanna put this link in the note it's it's an

1:13:47article on the verge by Nilay Patel who hates me but I like him and it's about

1:13:52it he posted a couple here yesterday about you know called why's everyone

1:13:56disappointed by Google buying nest and at the end he says Google people are

1:14:01becoming skeptical of Google's motives and and becoming a little afraid afraid

1:14:07of an unchecked Google what's the date on this late because I'm pretty sure we

1:14:10all have this conversation like three years ago about hey people are becoming

1:14:15I swear an actual podcast maybe you may be exactly three years ago I remember

1:14:21being on a podcast we're talking about this like that the tide had turned

1:14:25because like maybe was like cool thing about Twitter or something and that was

1:14:29that I was talking about the care member when we used to be excited when Google

1:14:33would by somebody in nowadays are excited when our favorite star be get

1:14:36bought and nowadays when Google by somebody like that's the end of that and

1:14:42now they're going to be evil like this this I think you could you could keep

1:14:46rerunning the story every year

1:14:47well I think I've I felt a shift in this myself just anecdotally because I've

1:14:56been skeptical of Google and and expressing fear of an unchecked Google I

1:15:01think I think a few years longer than most people have in in the tech writing

1:15:05world and I I kind of felt like I was being like my own crazy paranoid itself

1:15:12out in the middle of the woods

1:15:13you know you are I am that's true but it felt like I was the only one who felt

1:15:19this way who'd wasn't that excited whenever Google would roll out some new

1:15:23feature that would crush the whole industry you know and and who was like I

1:15:26was never I was never like all in on Google shares that may be with the data

1:15:31on news I think maybe that was the thing I'm thinking about the Asian News know

1:15:35that's one of those way back in nineteen days in his thing that had all the

1:15:41Usenet post and that's how they got all that became Gulu groups and a good news

1:15:46was like outdated news great you can find stuff and you could use that was

1:15:49terrible to use like the native way and so you would use day's news in the

1:15:53Googlebot Americans like to bed and that like I don't know what date that is on

1:15:57the chair encoded up with that was a long time ago and that was I think the

1:16:00first time that conversation came up at like we all love Google we all of data

1:16:05news why are we happy when Google by station news well groups is why what

1:16:11gives me hope is that this is no longer an isolated opinion this is no longer

1:16:15minority opinion this and it was even back then it was even a year ago it was

1:16:20now though people are starting to get a little bit creeped out by Google and I

1:16:25think that's the best for everybody including Google that people are finally

1:16:29getting a little bit skeptical a little bit like you know maybe we should put a

1:16:34little more critical thought of this before we go celebrate and through all

1:16:37of our data in here and I thought that's just that's a very good spread spreading

1:16:41wider like the nerds have always been concerned but sharon says it was 2001

1:16:45news but now it's spreading wide and varied just attack married site but just

1:16:51like I don't get enough like the new york times and stuff today is coming up

1:16:56at that point but I think now if you asked

1:16:58if you ask the average person how do you feel about Google acquiring company

1:17:02they're gonna say I don't know what next as explained to me if they think about

1:17:05it for a little while to them you know getting a lot of information about us

1:17:10and I think like you know it's just been slowly ramping up maybe once we get the

1:17:14mainstream kind of acceptance but you can take a microphone to anyone on the

1:17:16street and say hey Google thinking of buying X what do you think about that

1:17:20and they grown then that's it you know they will have commit complete

1:17:23penetration so I think it's escalating and I guess you measure it in in our

1:17:28nerd nearby

1:17:31number and volume of in terms of loudness of posted whenever Google by

1:17:38somebody and so maybe like this time there's even more articles in there even

1:17:42more strained an angry about it but i dont not quite sure to cross over the

1:17:47USA today maybe USA to write a story about this but will will the tone of the

1:17:52USA today's story be look at all the extra information goals getting about

1:17:56you and is it an unsafe that one company information and again I cringe every

1:17:59time it's like because Google is going to do evil things with the Cougars going

1:18:03to stuff to make some money with it and maybe that's an average sizes and stuff

1:18:07like that in my view consider the evil but Google is not going to tell your

1:18:10wife is not include interest to do that on purpose anyway they do accidentally

1:18:14on purpose but once glad that information it is extremely dangerous

1:18:19than anybody has any information especially a company like Google that

1:18:22doesn't care anything about you your life just like well protected as best we

1:18:26can but if you're stupid and someone gets through your or stabbing someone

1:18:30gets to our air are really smart and someone just breaks in there we have a

1:18:33bad employee or you know whatever else happened it's dangerous and hey there's

1:18:38no real punishment for us of the new stopping using our services but what we

1:18:41gonna do you do use being retired I think so thanks for the response this

1:18:51week

1:18:51Squarespace ting and transporter and we will see you next week

1:18:57now the show they didn't need me to begin accidental accidental John

1:19:11research

1:19:14that's Casey list and a team Marco

1:19:58are you going to do with the two-party system go ahead throw your vote away I

1:20:08actually know this one for the first time ever go on TV or go out and watch

1:20:14TV you know twelve years ago when that when that episode of The Simpsons

1:20:16Halloween special aired there you go

1:20:18this case it wasn't born yet so I'm older than Marco for christ sake but if

1:20:28you don't you're not mentally and psychologically older Marcos aged

1:20:32price is he got too close to the ring for too long time and David Karp known

1:20:40that should be reversing is David Davis like six years that's really how do you

1:20:44think he's just it's like during great 266 days

1:20:49actually having a kid yeah that's that's what I mean I mean geez David is like a

1:20:55ball of constant energy and enthusiasm it came from

1:21:00off to prevent from seeping into you too much money they wouldn't get stuck in

1:21:11neutral protease been in there forever will get to know and someday you'll get

1:21:16to software methodologies waiting at the may be receiving a good if we keep

1:21:22getting questions on Twitter from people saying hey when was the methodology up

1:21:26there i think im not get the app I get another one for you to get to the

1:21:31fireworks factory the whites alright let's just forget it

1:21:39somebody whatever you want two titles I see any better than market but for

1:21:46that's my topic I can come around that they just see speaker Marco buying for

1:21:51did you see the flat LED light bulbs

1:21:55Phillips ones yeah yeah as soon as I can buy 1 I'll just try it out but it's it's

1:22:00getting to the point now where there's tons of pretty decent LED bulbs that are

1:22:06roughly 60 Watts equivalent in brightness for roughly $12 it why do

1:22:10they keep doing only sixties I would but I would start buying them maybe if it

1:22:13hundreds equipment why did find a good hundreds of them but it's still like

1:22:17fifty-five dollars so I bought one of them and it's awesome I put it in like

1:22:22in the 10 lab next to my desk that I've had that I was keeping a CFL in all

1:22:27these are all these years I think I think I know whether all well there's

1:22:30probably some technical reason for the low wattage but you know in terms of

1:22:34marketing and selling them I think they'll watch because people who have

1:22:38enough money to buy LED light bulbs also houses with many pictures and a lot of a

1:22:43lot of fixtures will use like late one to three 60 watt bulbs like if you have

1:22:49a lot of pictures you don't put a hundred water equivalent bulb in

1:22:51seventeen pictures right whereas my house which is ancient and

1:22:55described it as very few pictures so I need those pictures to be super duper

1:22:59bright so I will be willing to buy the you know the highest output both you can

1:23:03put in there and I would love it if they didn't actually consumed hundred-plus

1:23:08wats electricity producer you know and Jen you know transferring most of the

1:23:11heat and putting out a little bit like well also I i think one of the one of

1:23:16the reasons I mean first of all I think the technical reason for it is is

1:23:19substantial and that is I believe mostly heat-related because yes led to produce

1:23:24way less heat than incandescents but there are also a lot less tolerant of

1:23:29heat himself that he is concentrated in a small area you know I i've heard that

1:23:34said I don't think that's the problem I do the problems that led themselves are

1:23:39not are not that tolerant of operating in extremely high temperatures for a

1:23:43very long time but that's probably true to their word every bit like the Philips

1:23:48Bobo some rather flat won the Innovation on it is they spread things out so it

1:23:52dissipates heat better at the same amount of heat output but it spread out

1:23:56over its like instead and they don't have to put a big gun metal heat sink I

1:23:59like it it's kind of like be the air-cooled equivalent they spread

1:24:03everything out in a big fan shape on this flat plane apparently that helps

1:24:06cooling and its way cheaper to do that and it is doing it put a big expensive

1:24:11metal heaps income thing as of January 2014 it is I'm pretty sure it's now

1:24:15illegal to to sell manufacture hunter watt bulbs in the us- which is why

1:24:21there's all of a sudden a few a few more hundred-word equivalent LED something

1:24:24that is plenty of CFL so yeah but CFLs are so awful house doubled them and and

1:24:34they're awful right I not as sensitive to light color as you are apparently

1:24:38because they don't bother me nearly as much as I seem to bother you and the

1:24:42flickering or whatever this seems to bother people doesn't either I don't see

1:24:45it or doesn't bother me and they take less energy than incandescent so I

1:24:49replaced all my because they're so cheap like the cheap compared LEDs so I don't

1:24:54think we have any conditions like now is also a part of me wishes that I had more

1:25:01nice things there's a part of me that wants a fancy TV like john has your

1:25:06or has fancy light bulbs in the house but about 99% of me is so freaking happy

1:25:13that I don't care I'm so glad I don't care as you know what I do when I need a

1:25:18light bulb I go to Home Depot or Lowes now by whatever the first lightbulb I

1:25:21find that fits is it's so nice I don't worry about anything it's grade I think

1:25:28with this audience of me and John you're there isn't there's no chance of me and

1:25:33John caring less about things I don't notice the light quality difference as

1:25:38much but the stupid whatever is the balanced or whatever the thing that

1:25:41drives the CFLs some of them buzz that I cannot say it's not it's not like they

1:25:48buzz like every one of these models busy just getting lucky get a buzzing one and

1:25:51then you just got here to return it or get different my problem with CFLs was

1:25:56always that it was a lot like desktop Linux and Android where everyone always

1:26:00says own now they're good all those problems you've had before and CFLs now

1:26:04we fix them and then I go buy new ones and they're bad still like it

1:26:08know and you never know what you're buying one of the ones you buy are

1:26:11actually good or not and its

1:26:13CFLs I've I have spent so much money on so many CFLs in so many different

1:26:18apartments and houses over the last five years or ten years and almost all that I

1:26:23regret how is that how is that unlike LEDs in the same thing with those who

1:26:27keep saying their crappy except for like the one that you like but the next round

1:26:30comes in all the new ones are better than the one you liked most of the ones

1:26:35that that I've bought are still in full time using in my house and because most

1:26:39of the bottom actually really good trust me there's a there's a huge difference

1:26:43in in satisfaction between CFLs and LEDs CFLs CFLs were were mediocre when they

1:26:52were new and then as they were as they age their colors would shift and get

1:26:56even worse and take longer to warm to full brightness and it was a disaster

1:27:00and I try every time to go this year feels good so I go try that one and it

1:27:05wouldn't be and disaster plus all the mercury in the complexity it it's not

1:27:12it's not a good scene is excited is this what will tune in for its it's not it's

1:27:17not the Car Talk its this does the light bulb post on your blog we talk about the

1:27:21people of those books I get so much feedback on the way more than I expect

1:27:28I'd rather have you bothered by it would be good to me but when the day comes

1:27:33that I actually you'll tell me when I get down to the price bird makes sense

1:27:36for me to buy them and then look at your post on by whatever you say is good if

1:27:41if they had more than 61 yeah I would say if you if you for all the all the

1:27:45things in your house that use 40 or 60 Watts you can do that now you know how

1:27:49much how much are though so I tend to tend to $15 each

1:27:53the problem is probably about the last forever I have thought about that when

1:28:00the ones in the kitchen go back to be five years from now it will be a problem

1:28:05is like CFLs like they they age poorly they usually almost always the colors

1:28:11will shift the balance was bugging out or something they don't have them as you

1:28:16buy something or they're gonna last for you know five ten years I like they're

1:28:20claiming and and they might they might work for that long but you might not

1:28:24want them in that was going on that I did I frequently as the one in the room

1:28:30in which i think last like a year and a half on average you know I would like to

1:28:35say that I also enjoy reading the LED posts on your your site so this way I

1:28:40know what life album never gonna bother buying exactly it it's good to know as

1:28:44valuable information

1:28:47goodness anything else going on think that anything else besides suffer at all

1:28:52geez nobody wants to hear that apparently Marco my fault that news

1:28:57keeps happening we'll get there

1:28:59well I guess we're at a time