The Accidental Tech Podcast

49: Roamio and Siracusiet

 

  Lenders the i Mac. I was on a pedestal the G. Four G. Four Q. Came up from the floor. [TS]

  Still Sharp had to jump onto an airbag. That's real power. So we got some e-mail from an Apple Store genius. [TS]

  Yeah last week we were talking about i Cloud who buys more storage for i Cloud And I think I said that. [TS]

  I imagine that people would go in not knowing whether their message on their phone means saying. [TS]

  It says something and about i Cloud blah blah blah fix it. Mr Genius present at the bar. [TS]

  And what they would assume they would do is say you know that James would tell him always I could really give us [TS]

  or my storage for free you've run out of that if you are more you have to pay Paul Blon the customer be pissed. [TS]

  And they would say. [TS]

  I don't want to pay more money for this type of thing whatever [TS]

  but I figured they would eventually just pay because they just want to keep using the phone the way they used to use it. [TS]

  And then at the end of that I joke that it's that [TS]

  or I guess they can just turn back off entirely if they think nothing will ever happen to their phone. [TS]

  Well according to this Apple store genius has been there for two years. [TS]

  People do come in with the message they don't understand what I mean is that not enough storage. [TS]

  And he says the customer service reaction not to pay for something they don't understand. [TS]

  They just turn I call back up often never think about it again. So there you go. [TS]

  That's so painful but I but that's extremely believable. [TS]

  So the other thing is or they don't understand how to turn the prompt off and we just hit OK Every morning [TS]

  when I come back it was a time that. [TS]

  So like that that that's their new way they use the phone is like every morning this is dialog box on the head OK [TS]

  and it goes away doesn't bother me to the next few days [TS]

  and has there are very few people who have actually paid for i Cloud storage in recent memory the only people I can [TS]

  think of that bought it. Are people that assume i Cloud storage. [TS]

  Will increase with the size of the phone storage capacity. And we talk about that before like how. Ideally you know. [TS]

  Whatever they're going to do with i Cloud Storage it would match the size of subtle some size of the devices you have [TS]

  so whether it's free [TS]

  or whether it's fear whatever it seems like as you buy more devices your storage expandable should somehow build that [TS]

  into the price of devices or build that into the price of i Cloud but they don't they give you. [TS]

  It's freemium they learned from the App Store. [TS]

  They give you a little bit for free and then you would ever Louis reach reach the limit and you get it. [TS]

  But some sad thing of people going Oh I know how to fix a photo start I thought backups off done and done. [TS]

  If the problem is I get this box every morning that's annoying. It does fix the problem in quotes. You know. [TS]

  I don't know. I think this is the more the more we hear about these these stories of how regular people. [TS]

  Hit these walls. On their i OS devices. Of this photo storage wall unlike what to do at once you hit that wall. [TS]

  It's just so sad and really it's tragic. How many people lose their photos that they've taken. And you know. [TS]

  Keep on a lot of people their phone as their primary or only camera. [TS]

  And you know they could be taken with the only pictures they have of their kid. [TS]

  You know and like actually I know somebody who does happened. So you know. [TS]

  These problems really are affecting a lot of people in very big ways and I have to imagine. [TS]

  You know what we have now with i Cloud. Photo back up this. This can't be like it. [TS]

  Like this can't be the solution to this problem period there. Apple really has to address this in a more serious way. [TS]

  And you know we've talked so much in the past I don't want to go over too much. [TS]

  We talked so much in the past about the challenges of things like upstream bed with and uploading all your photos [TS]

  and especially what the heck do you do with videos that are that. [TS]

  That gain space on the device way faster them to the most could upload them to a web service. [TS]

  But I think there's such a huge gap between the ideal of backing up everything. [TS]

  And where we are now backing up kind of partially some things to very confusing I think a lot of middle ground between [TS]

  those two. That we can still achieve today. [TS]

  You know that Apple gets village chief today if they wanted to [TS]

  and just seems like either they can't get their act together on that yet. Or it's not a priority enough. [TS]

  Yeah I actually have some sort of related follow up so last episode I lamented the fact that I had. [TS]

  What I thought was multiple gigabytes of messages data on my i Phone [TS]

  and it was so much that it was preventing i Cloud from backing up my i Phone because I was running out of space [TS]

  and I hadn't paid for any extra it's under ten or so I don't remember if I had hard facts at the time we recorded [TS]

  but I can tell you I'm looking at my i Phone right now. And I have three and a half. Gigabytes of messages data. [TS]

  As per the settings than a believe it's general than you suggest generally the new usage. [TS]

  And so I was I'd concluded that I really need to get this off of my phone [TS]

  and as much as I love my animated gifs I can find them elsewhere. [TS]

  And so it's a night I paid thirty five dollars for I Explorer which used to be known as i Phone Explorer [TS]

  and I'm sure someone will write and tell me No you idiot you should have done it this way. [TS]

  Here's the secret hack to get to these things. But nevertheless I paid for this app and it will let me extract. [TS]

  S M S's from an unencrypted. I Tunes backups I had to do it on encrypted itunes backup. Well anyways. [TS]

  It will do many things it will save P.D.F. Severe i Tunes of your messages it'll save. [TS]

  See a season it'll also save text files and. I export did. Just my conversations with Aaron my wife. And as a P.D.F. [TS]

  Which does like the little chap bubbles and everything it was two hundred seventeen Megs. As a C.S.V. [TS]

  File works nothing but text it was still two megs of messages. [TS]

  And that's because I haven't deleted any To my recollection since I got my three G.S. [TS]

  In what did a two thousand or twenty time I was get that wrong. [TS]

  So anyway so the point is there idle lot of messages on my phone and I don't view this as something abnormal and. [TS]

  In this is something that I feel like a lot of regular people do. And I'm really. [TS]

  I'm surprised that Apple hasn't found a better way to handle this. And it makes sense because. [TS]

  In Apple's perspective it stands to reason they wouldn't have to handle this because maybe normal people do delete [TS]

  their messages but I would assume that not all normal people do and certainly I think of myself a slightly normal [TS]

  and I didn't. So this is kind of a bummer and hopefully after the show I'll be able to go through in delete L. [TS]

  All of these text messages. [TS]

  And all of the animated GIF cinema G.'s that are so she added with them and hopefully reclaim all that. [TS]

  Three and a half gigs and then be able to use I clap for backups again. [TS]

  So I guess you don't need this new romantic Matic application. Then over this no so native application. I think. [TS]

  I think was great Nasir somebody I know from the incomparable. [TS]

  Oh is this the thing that like pings you reminds you of yeah nice text messages to your significant other it seems like [TS]

  you're all set in that regard. And I could've been a fast text feature. [TS]

  It could have been he doesn't need it obviously. Clearly not which by the way I have a new icon for fast taxed my. [TS]

  My internet friend Jacob why that has been working with me. Poor guy. [TS]

  And I have a new icon I haven't quite finished the update to fast text [TS]

  but I don't need to hear any more complaining for him from John and Marco about the icons soon. [TS]

  I really complain that the new one doesn't if he doesn't have feet. No sorry. But the icon is so much better. [TS]

  Oh my goodness it's so much better. No feet no sale. [TS]

  Going back a sort of a photo thing I did the messages thing to this is. [TS]

  It's one of those problems where I.O.'s has this kind of idealized picture of of conditions of usage and. [TS]

  This is been a problem with a lot of Apple software you know the the photo storage [TS]

  and an organization methods Itunes etc. [TS]

  There's these these idealized situations that I guess the designers at Apple figure this is how people use the thing. [TS]

  And they try to hide the complexity of dealing with computers and the reality of computers and. [TS]

  When you get to something like the photo storage and backup issues and I.O.'s. [TS]

  And even things like you know messages taking up a ton of space. [TS]

  I think the big problem is that you're hitting these these places where it's. [TS]

  You know to use a joint software term it's a leaky abstraction. Like you can't hide. [TS]

  The realities of computing devices have limited storage space and photos and video shot by good cameras are huge [TS]

  and upstream Bam with in most places it's not great. And on and oftentimes not free for very long and. [TS]

  And like there's all these kind of inconvenient truths in the in the reality of using these computing systems that. [TS]

  I.O.'s either. Ignores or berries so deeply that. [TS]

  You know people do have to deal with the problem of storage space like that. [TS]

  That's a that's a reasonable thing to expect somebody using computer device to do is like well. [TS]

  You have this much space. [TS]

  And you had your trying to store more stuff than it holds so you got to make some decisions here. [TS]

  And I.O.'s really make that hard you know it Merlin talk about this a lot to like it makes it very hard to know where [TS]

  the storage is being used it's very hard to to control that to to delete things intelligently to make space [TS]

  intelligently. To know what's being backed up somewhere and what isn't. [TS]

  You know a lot of the blame for those lays on the design of I O. S. [TS]

  For for trying to pretend like these realities don't exist when in fact they're extremely common. [TS]

  And I would love to do the thing where like you know the usage screen where I spend a lot of my time because I've been [TS]

  always by thirty two gay guy with devices and I can barely fit. My stuff on them. [TS]

  So I'm always right up against the storage limit because like movies for the kids another random things that I put on [TS]

  there. [TS]

  You know video is pushed me over the edge so I spend a lot of time in the user screen look into that stupid scrolling [TS]

  list and expanding into seeing it and. The solution to your. You're out of room is. Look at that big list. [TS]

  Find the application that like that big that you don't think you need or whatever and delete the entire application. [TS]

  Because you're like well. [TS]

  Can I just delete a couple of the things in that application in some cases you can like video you can do the individual [TS]

  videos for the video about the case but in other cases. Applications are not designed to say. [TS]

  Hey I'm application form and here's all the list of the data that I'm storing [TS]

  and it you want I can purge my cash as I can delete these old things that you haven't seen in a while I can. [TS]

  You know just some way to manage the date in the application the only solution is.. [TS]

  You know hold down going to little note at the little X. Nuke the whole application. [TS]

  I recently had to do that with Instapaper because I was up to like one point two gigs. [TS]

  Instapaper was one point two gigs as a paper doesn't have any way. [TS]

  Like within it like trim it stayed there whatever I could have gone through the individual. [TS]

  Things and deleted them off or whatever. [TS]

  The easiest thing for me to do because a likely Instapaper is has a service I can point it was to delete the hell up [TS]

  and then re-install it. [TS]

  And there was an make we know loss and functionality but whatever the hell Instapaper was keeping around was gone [TS]

  and it's the paper shrunk back down to its normal size and. I'm sure it's slowly growing back up as I go. [TS]

  I mean that's that's an extreme case of whatever but you know same thing with the S. [TS]

  and I think you could have gone through the S.M.S. App and deleted individual messages if you wanted. [TS]

  But nobody after certain once you hit that limit is that's a method of so many people of at this limit. [TS]

  And I was no one's going to go back and delete individual messages. [TS]

  And there's nothing in the message that location that says. Delete messages older than X. [TS]

  Delete messages from you know do a like a something to do something complicated to like a search query final is it like. [TS]

  There's not a lot of good solutions [TS]

  and you can't delete the messages avocations far as I know so I was trying to simplify things [TS]

  but that ends up chunking into the big immutable blobs of data. [TS]

  And people are forced to make choices like should delete this entire application. I guess is my only choice I mean. [TS]

  And so I think maybe they don't even know that you can go into the video and delete individual videos [TS]

  but difficult situation it will kind of be better if. When Apple does a storage shift. [TS]

  Because I think most people can get away with like a sixty four gig. Device and be pretty sloppy. [TS]

  But lots of people buying sixteenth and that's just not enough for anybody to use for more than like a year [TS]

  and not run out a room. Well in either way. [TS]

  If you have the sixteen gig device and if you have sixteen gigs of legitimate data on it. [TS]

  That's not going to get back up to i Cloud much you pony up some money. And this is where like you guys had mentioned. [TS]

  Earlier in Bradley Chambers I think was the first place I've seen this said Well. [TS]

  The the amount of i Cloud backup you have should be the. [TS]

  The cumulative size of all of your devices associated with that account so if you have a thirty two gig phone [TS]

  and thirty two gig i i Pad. [TS]

  Then as far as we're concerned the size of the of the your i Cloud allotment should be sixty four gigs. [TS]

  Which is a lot more than five obviously. Even then those like I mean obviously we're not talking about. [TS]

  You know desktop sized backup sets but even that might hit problems with upstream. Limits. Yeah. Very much so. [TS]

  But I mean at least to say it's a step it's an improvement. True. Yeah definitely. All right. [TS]

  We are sponsored this week our first sponsor is. [TS]

  Lynda dot com L Y N D eight com You probably heard about them on other great podcast [TS]

  but let me tell you about them here. Lynda dot com. Helps anyone learn creative. [TS]

  Software and business skills to achieve your personal and professional goals. [TS]

  They have over two thousand high quality engaging video courses taught by industry experts with new courses added. [TS]

  Every day. They have a very wide breadth of courses for me good to advanced. And the videos I watched a few of these. [TS]

  I got a chance to earlier today. [TS]

  They have these great animations these diagrams it's very easy to get the information you need they explained it very [TS]

  nicely the pacing is really good. [TS]

  And really they do have stuff like from begin to even think I I saw some beginner stuff [TS]

  and I saw like I want to the logic sections I edit the podcast and logic I got stuff there [TS]

  and saw such stuff about how to use. Compressors better in a D.S. [TS]

  or Whichever way says we need which I haven't used yet. So all that's not really cool. [TS]

  And all this is available from Lynda dot com for just twenty five dollars a month it's a flat flat rate. [TS]

  With unlimited access to the entire course library. On landed a com. [TS]

  Just twenty five dollars a month they have over two million people worldwide. [TS]

  Sign up for the service that they're there educating [TS]

  and teaching so these videos have expertise sure's the instructors are working professionals in their field at the top [TS]

  of their fields. And they have you know really they. [TS]

  They're aware of the reality of the Internet they know that you can go on You Tube [TS]

  and you can get a lot of stuff for free. [TS]

  But the quality there is often pretty lacking and it's very hard to find good stuff [TS]

  and I can attest that you know I I taught myself a lot of the basis of logic using You Tube and it was really hit [TS]

  or miss. Lynda dot com is consistent high quality very very high production values. [TS]

  You know I mentioned earlier they have all these animations and diagrams and screen. Recordings and everything and. [TS]

  It's really really great so you can watch from anywhere computer tablet mobile device I even tried it in my flash lists [TS]

  Safari and it works just great and that's you don't even need flash on the desktop. So check him out they have. [TS]

  They cover huge range. You know Objective C. [TS]

  I OS seven if you want to learn Perl they even have a Perl five course so you so I mean John. [TS]

  I imagine you want to like force your co-workers to take this right side of the mystic view. What will help them. [TS]

  Well they it's beginner to advance so maybe. Everything they have creative cloud apps that the O.B.F. They have. [TS]

  You know office prior to video apps accounting like Quick Books. [TS]

  Business skills you can learn about content marketing management techniques negotiation. [TS]

  Media production apps other you know if you want to learn photography videography podcasting tons of stuff so anyway.. [TS]

  Go to Lynda dot com. Lynda dot com. That's L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. Now they even see they know our audience. [TS]

  Normally they make podcast or say forward slash. But they know that our listeners are good with computers. [TS]

  So L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. and You can get a seven day free trial.. [TS]

  They thought the Linda L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. So we talked a lot about Google. [TS]

  Last absented and buying Nast and so on and so forth. [TS]

  And we've had least a couple of people home writing in actually have some really interesting feedback about that. [TS]

  But John I believe it was you that added something in particular. Yeah I just want to know this one thing that. [TS]

  Not to go into too much depth of her daughter what it why they buy Nest is it because they want to get into consumer [TS]

  products because they want to or more information blah blah [TS]

  and Corey Diamond wrote in to mention one specific product that is actually directly connected to what nest does for [TS]

  joining us only mean that has anything to do with why they bought Nest [TS]

  but it's interesting coincidence that this genie project that they were doing it's about creating like a smart building [TS]

  for you know sustainable construction and Veyron mentally for indeed friendly buildings and stuff like that. [TS]

  And this is part another one of their pie in the sky things that Google does like self driving cars of whatever. [TS]

  And apparently they spotted off into another company. [TS]

  So I don't know how much bearing a thousand nest [TS]

  but it just goes to show that the type of things that nest is doing albeit on a very small scale. [TS]

  Using technology to make things that we all have that we've you know. We don't question. [TS]

  Like are thermostats are smoke detectors or whatever. [TS]

  More intelligent to try to make for more efficient building Google's already gone down that road. [TS]

  Partially with this project which by the think the show it's people want to know more I got I don't think it has much [TS]

  to do with us that all [TS]

  but it just goes to show they like the similarity of thinking like Nest is not too far from something that Google might [TS]

  have done although the way Google does it is to do some crazy far reaching Saif I think and then just lose interest [TS]

  and spin it off but nest actually folks Because. [TS]

  I don't want small area and shipped a product that people might want to buy. [TS]

  So I think this might turn into the John surgeries [TS]

  and show which will probably make a lot of people including me very happy. [TS]

  I hear that there's some things going on with Tivo that happened right before we recorded I'm recording on that [TS]

  Wednesday night. [TS]

  As a late breaking saw [TS]

  and there's not much info I did right before I was on the regular I was I was going into to set up my computer to [TS]

  record. Someone tweeted. Some link to a Wired story that Tivo had laid off. [TS]

  Most of its hardware design team supposedly. [TS]

  And that they're getting out of the hardware business which really annoys me. [TS]

  Mostly because I don't want to buy the new poll that came out like [TS]

  when it came out people aren't you going to at the new Tivo it supposedly faster so and so forth. [TS]

  And I read all their views and I said no it's way for the next one. Right. Well the. Maybe there will be an excellent. [TS]

  As a confusing article where it says they laid off five people [TS]

  and that was most of their hardware design team I mean I guess that would explain some things [TS]

  but I don't know it's still too early to know if this is like a a rumor gone bad [TS]

  and they just did some sort of reshuffling or whatever of that [TS]

  but it seems like Tivo wants to get into the business of supplying software to other people who make set top boxes [TS]

  and doing server side. D.V.R. Is like the eighty eight hundred two universe thing. [TS]

  Rather than selling you a box with a hard drive in the C.P.U. You're putting your home. [TS]

  And I kind of like the box with the hard drive in a C.P.U. That you put in your home. So. As I tweeted. [TS]

  Does this mean now I have to get one of these T.V. Shows because it. [TS]

  Like my television it's like all it's the last one they're making and [TS]

  when it goes away who knows what you'll be able to buy. I don't know. [TS]

  I just priced one out [TS]

  and even with like a discount code that you get for doing filling out their stupid monthly survey things. [TS]

  Still I still like a nine hundred something dollars for me to get the big honkin Tivo that I want with lifetime service. [TS]

  What are you serious. Half of that is the service cost. [TS]

  So the the box itself is five hundred dollars or less for the big one that holds like four hundred fifty hours of H.D. [TS]

  Content with six tuners those we're talking about here this is a big the big guns I don't shop down low end of the [TS]

  range. [TS]

  And then double that price for the service contract in the service contract is like basically paying for them to say [TS]

  new program information for the life of the device you could pay like twelve dollars a month if you want to do it month [TS]

  by month or you can pay some big amount of money and get lifetime [TS]

  and I have to get lifetime as I keep my Tivo boxes for years like you know I'm slowly rotate them [TS]

  and retire the map most of the time. [TS]

  The lifetime thing more than pays for itself because I retire the Tivo after three four five years and it's you know. [TS]

  At twelve dollars a month and take too many years the equal like one hundred two hundred dollars [TS]

  or whatever used to be for a lifetime but they keep bringing the prices up [TS]

  and I don't want to pay month the month so I was like a lifetime thing but the. [TS]

  My current lifetime on my Tivo premier is not close to being paid for I forget what I paid for that lifetime thing [TS]

  but that's the another reason I didn't buy the new. Romeo D.V.R. [TS]

  when It came out even though it does look like it's faster and I saw them on some of the new still weren't H.D. [TS]

  and I said all this way for the next one I'm still in the middle of my lifetime [TS]

  and this on I don't need a new Tivo my current Tivo is fine. [TS]

  Such as it is but now that they're getting out of this business. [TS]

  You know I have to play it's to the game where I wait and see if I can get one of these when they become cheaper. [TS]

  They will never become cheap and letters disappear. I don't know I'm kind of sad about it so so everything you like Is. [TS]

  Disappearing from under you. I'm surprised there's a new MacPro. Well sort of. Yeah. It is not that like I don't. [TS]

  The T.V. Thing is just like a fluke. [TS]

  Kind of where because there will be better T.V.'s eventually like all LEDs will eventually become cheaper [TS]

  and they'll be way better than what I have now but it's just you know that we're in a low period where the thing. [TS]

  Thing that I want is going away and something better will become replace it. But I don't know when that will be. [TS]

  But a television I was you know. It was a clear choice because my old T.V. Like you could buy a was any modern T.V. [TS]

  You know better than my old one. I just because technology moved on and for years or plasmas. [TS]

  But for Tivo my current want to still pretty darn good it's very reliable. [TS]

  Fortune residing need sixteen years for tuners is enough. [TS]

  The only reason I would get the new one is because that you why it's faster Nothing drives me crazy about my current on [TS]

  that and stupid ads. So I don't know. I haven't decided what I'm going to do. [TS]

  But I'm sad that there are apparently getting of the heart was like. [TS]

  I still think is the market for this product what it does is amazing people who are still people who I know have never [TS]

  had people on the happen to buy one. Like stopping L.T. [TS]

  From the incomparable had never had a Tivo I think he bought one recently he's just amazed by he's like wow this is a [TS]

  great like yes I could not. You know. I could not watch television that T.V.. [TS]

  I would never want to the cable company's D.V.R. I would never want to not have a D.V.R. [TS]

  This is how want to do it is just a this hardware could be so much better. [TS]

  Just need a little bit a little bit of finesse [TS]

  and know how plied to it make the C.P.U.'s faster make everything about it better. [TS]

  Prove the software like it so close and it's so much better than everything else [TS]

  but to see them sort of fail on the business and just decide they're going to get in bed with the cable companies [TS]

  and just supply software like I don't. I don't know where their expertise lies so there are a great making harbour. [TS]

  No not really a great making software not really the combination of something that didn't exist before the box [TS]

  or you could have in your house kind of like transporter box in your house [TS]

  but the hard drive the stuff on it no cloud stuff needed. [TS]

  Just program information you come down and it's got a lot of features now like the I was apps aren't that bad. [TS]

  You can control your Tivo from the other side of the country with your. If your phone or your i Pad. [TS]

  You could stream dear i Pad from your house [TS]

  and what I was all sorts of things you can do with the hardware that they have they finally started to kind of get [TS]

  their useful features under the on this just that the hardware was not great and their software was little bit creaky. [TS]

  You know. And said Well if that makes you said what do you think of the for the Nintendo stuff. [TS]

  Even then that actually makes me laugh. [TS]

  That's next things I've ever really thought of when as you go through you've got to be the one you guys have Tivo. [TS]

  No I have Verizon's D.V.R. [TS]

  That ball which I should say comes with your cable service but we were just a year ago Aaron [TS]

  and I finally decided that I think ten or fifteen dollars a month was worth it for D.V.R. [TS]

  So everyone else on the planet had a D.V.R. For easily five years. And we just got one. Like I said around a year ago. [TS]

  And I really like it but I feel like I could live without it. And I don't find it to be. [TS]

  I find it to be sufficient because I've never really used a Tivo. [TS]

  All I needed to do is record that shows I want and play the show I want when I asked to play it. [TS]

  I guess maybe I'm ignorant [TS]

  but I don't see why you need anything more than that in my menus if memory serves our Nicci how much. [TS]

  Programming can you fit on your. I want to have the faintest idea we don't want enough T.V. [TS]

  To ever get that close to me I always I always avoid the stuff you know I had I had a D.V.R. [TS]

  Box from the cable company for. You know for a few years and then I then I I you know. [TS]

  Was one of those people cut cable. [TS]

  And that was a while ago I mean that was in late two thousand and seven two thousand and eight. Maybe. [TS]

  So it was it was a while ago and to me. You know one of the reason they did that is because like as a nerd.. [TS]

  Looking a D.V.R. It's just such a terrible hack. And it's its hacks on top of hacks on top of hacks. [TS]

  Mixing and Tivo is even more hacker the need to deal with your cable company's crap and. [TS]

  It's like it's layers upon layers of fragile hacky things that can and often do fail or break and. I would rather just. [TS]

  Put the same amount of money really or less. What in the being less most of the time. Into Netflix. [TS]

  And i Tunes purchases and. [TS]

  You know it works for us because the shows we watch are available that way and the money works out where like. [TS]

  You know we don't watch so many shows where that would be prohibitively expensive. You know. [TS]

  It doesn't work for everybody of course you know if you like speech live sports [TS]

  and stuff like that it's not going to work. [TS]

  But for us it works very well and so to me that's a much more elegant solution. If you can fit within it. [TS]

  Because then you don't have to like fast forward through commercials you don't have to worry about what if you know [TS]

  what if the thing missed start time by five minutes because something changes the last second. [TS]

  All that crazy stuff is to deal with the D.V.R. Storage space I mean. All that crazy stuff. You know it's. [TS]

  I prefer to just do the like eighty percent solution of I can get eighty percent of what we want. [TS]

  In this far better way. That's usually cheaper and has all these other advantages. [TS]

  Like for example no commercials ever. Always other venues it's just to me that's a much more elegant. [TS]

  Future and so the idea of buying a really decked out D.V.R. For me seems like investing in the wrong future. [TS]

  But that's again it's only because my consumption habits. Fit within the way I've chosen to do things. [TS]

  There are some advantages even if you're not every T.V. [TS]

  Watcher [TS]

  or if you're having to you watch it like I am in my whole family it than you can use a cable company for a D.V.R. [TS]

  Because that are out of storage space. Like where we. [TS]

  My thing has a thing as a three terabyte drive in there [TS]

  and we refill it consciously we're deleting stuff to make room for things so we fill the thing up because it was for [TS]

  people's worth of programming on there actually we have another two terabytes upstairs [TS]

  and we you know use a superset of storage. So you know and if you have you here that's what you can. You know. [TS]

  It's obvious that you can get by with any other solution. And if you're having T.V. [TS]

  or That also means you're not content to wait until the shop and i Tunes It's not even the money thing is just like [TS]

  and I watch it right now it's on right now why can I watch you right now I have one just torrent it isn't available. [TS]

  Although I have a good deal torrent and stuff like that it's like. [TS]

  This this is the solution that gets you the programming you want. When you wanted more or less. [TS]

  And if you don't care about that then the other solutions but I [TS]

  but I would say even even if you're not a heavy here watcher [TS]

  and even if you don't care about a little bit delayed the main feature that I think of all these D.V.R. [TS]

  Is in the age of cable card as they make it so you don't have to have a cable box if you think you want to have cable. [TS]

  For whatever reason. [TS]

  I can't imagine having a cable box [TS]

  and I've never had a cable box I've never had a cable box in any house that I I mean it may be an apartment I don't [TS]

  think any house that I've owned and had a cable box at all before maybe for around the time my first child was born. [TS]

  We said OK we're not going to have time to watch our T.V. [TS]

  Shows the way we normally have because once you have a kid you can't be like oh that o'clock go sit down [TS]

  and watch the T.V. Get out of the marketing more. And that's when I sort of said my goodbyes to life T.V. Like say. [TS]

  Thank you good bye I said life when you become a vampire. When I got my first Tivo alike. Nine ten years ago. [TS]

  That was it I said goodbye to live television. [TS]

  I will never watch live television again I will never see a commercial again that I don't skip there with thirty [TS]

  seconds get budget live television is dead to me flipping through channels is dead to me. [TS]

  All that totally gun point of like the best decade of my life television is like go in front of my television. [TS]

  Turn on go to go to some boxes connected to it and select what I want to watch from it [TS]

  and it's so happens that Tivo is filled with all the programming that. I want to record. And you know. [TS]

  In sort of real time and even [TS]

  when we watch the quote unquote live television we always play for the commercials to cue up like we don't start [TS]

  watching or eight o'clock programs until eight thirty [TS]

  when because we know we'll never have to see a commercial that way. You don't have to do with H.B.O. [TS]

  Shows the can watch them real time to they have no commercials. [TS]

  So I just think it's a more civilized way to watch television because cable boxes D.V.R. [TS]

  or No cable boxes are disgusting. [TS]

  Terrible black boxes of those big red L E D's on them [TS]

  and the harbor remotes they give you never want one of those things in my house at all [TS]

  and this is like you can buy your own box at this little cable car put it in there. [TS]

  And you know get files or something in the basement run. The co-ax up there. [TS]

  It's the same reason to not use the cable companies rather I don't want their box I don't want their raw. [TS]

  I don't want anything in the house. So for that reason alone I think. If you subscribe to cable. [TS]

  It is better to have one of the smaller tivo D.V.R. Then take their cable box. [TS]

  But if you don't like cable the new of the T.V. Without doing a thing for you and it can get by with the. [TS]

  I think even Katie depending on how much you use your horizon. D.V.R. Thing. [TS]

  You would probably like a Tivo better probably not as to be worth a lot of money at a cost of the how much do you pay [TS]

  per month for the D.V.R. Thing. [TS]

  I think it's about fifteen dollars and I don't debate that a Tivo is surely better in every measurable way [TS]

  and probably hundreds of immeasurable ones as well. But to me I having never had a D.V.R. Before. [TS]

  I'm just excited that I have a thing a machine if you will that will record the television shows that we do watch. [TS]

  Without me having to intervene and to your point a moment ago. I used the Verisign piece a crap. [TS]

  Action tech router that I was given when we moved into the house in two thousand and eight. [TS]

  And I have a new idea if I need some kind of intervention. I probably. But. But it hasn't caused me any issues now. [TS]

  For wife I use a slightly old Airport Extreme So really the only thing that this routers doing is getting internet. [TS]

  To my set top boxes and getting internet to my Airport Extreme. And for that. It's fine. [TS]

  And again I completely understand [TS]

  and agree that not having to use the rising router would probably be better in not having to Use. Of Horizon D.V.R. [TS]

  Would probably be better but it serves my needs just fine [TS]

  and so I don't have any compelling reason to upgrade that I'm aware of fifteen dollars a month the. [TS]

  That adds up you should wait until they have a fire sale on the last Tivo Romeo's and get one of the small [TS]

  and just try it. I think you will. I think cost wise it may end up being cheaper and it will be a nicer experience. [TS]

  Good probably. And you know the chat room saying oh well. You're renting that equipment I'm absolutely renting the. [TS]

  The D.V.R. I don't recall if I'm renting the router it stands to reason I am. But. [TS]

  But again it's for me it's deficient and. [TS]

  I mean art are Verizon bill is somewhere around two hundred fifty hundred sixty dollars for for the ball or [TS]

  but not obscene Internet so not quite Marco level but really good Internet and reasonable cable. We have H.D. [TS]

  Service of course. But we don't get any like Cinemax or H.B.O. [TS]

  or Anything like that and we even have a home telephone for a reason I haven't quite figured out yet. [TS]

  And for that it's about one hundred fifty dollars and I actually I love my files I. [TS]

  I would be devastated if we ever moved to a place that didn't have rights [TS]

  and files so I don't think that that's a terrible deal [TS]

  but I don't know maybe I'm missing out our second sponsor this week is our friends at harvest. [TS]

  Harvest is a beautifully crafted business tool for tracking the time spent on client projects. [TS]

  Now you guys will Casey especially you do client work a lot in your in your business life. And you are very aware of. [TS]

  Just how how many time tracking tools there are out there and how terrible most of them are right. Yeah and. [TS]

  In fact when I was a C. Plus plus developer many years ago. I taught myself C. [TS]

  Sharp by writing my own time tracking tool which was indeed terrible as well harvest is harvest fixes all that harvest [TS]

  is this great beautiful. Beautifully crafted tool. You can work from anywhere. [TS]

  You can start a time track or via your web browser. You can also start on your i Phone or Android device. [TS]

  You want to go searching for your time or app or you know yours. [TS]

  This morning and you just go to go to harvest many devices you can start a timer. [TS]

  You want to play the memory game later with your time sheet. You can stay focused on the task at hand. [TS]

  Just start the timer anywhere and get to work. [TS]

  All your track hours appeared visual time reports designed to help finish project on time [TS]

  and within budget they're big on this whole on time and within budget thing. [TS]

  They really try to get your focus on that to just keep you keep you on track and. [TS]

  They're often tools will actually really be able to show you which clients and projects are making you money. [TS]

  And which ones are costing you. [TS]

  You know if you're if you're getting paid less than what you're actually spending to work on it you're losing money on [TS]

  that and their tools to help you find that. [TS]

  So other people agree creative businesses around the world will track of millions of hours and harvest this year. [TS]

  So you should join them. Before twenty fourteen slips away to another poorly track year of work. [TS]

  Check out harvest at get harvest dot com. [TS]

  and you can try it free for thirty days after the trial period use promo code A.T.P. Anytime before March first. [TS]

  And you'll receive fifty percent off your first month so again. Get harvest. Dot com. Try it for thirty days. [TS]

  And use code A.T.P. After purchase. Before March first to get fifty percent off. Your first month. [TS]

  Thanks a lot to harvest. For sponsoring the show. I'd so we never actually got to Nintendo writer my crazy. [TS]

  Now we didn't Nigel latest. OK. OK. Are they dead yet. Going to be a while so there are they announce their financials. [TS]

  Are there expected financials are projections [TS]

  and they're forecasting a two hundred forty million dollar annual loss because the way you is not selling. [TS]

  And they're cutting the forecasts and how many we use they think they're going to sell. [TS]

  They previously had saying they were going to sell nine million. [TS]

  And now they're saying they're gonna sell two point eight million. [TS]

  Is even way you games they cut that from saying they were going to sell thirty eight million who are you game saying [TS]

  they were going to sell one thousand million. So you know. [TS]

  Ever knows that we use not selling units and I was not done anything to make it so any better. Three D.S. [TS]

  Is doing OK not great not terrible. Is actually the best selling console of all of twenty thirteen which is now. [TS]

  Not that impressive because what did it compete with in twenty thirteen a bunch of old consuls that were on the way out [TS]

  the door but it was also the best selling console in December. [TS]

  Which is kind of impressive because in December the new condos were just coming out you think you know they're still [TS]

  like a billion dollars in the million units in the first day or whatever. So I mean compared to the D.S. [TS]

  Number three D.S. Isn't big. But compared to how dedicated gaming device is selling now three D.S. [TS]

  Is doing pretty well for itself. Wow someone. [TS]

  Real time follow up in the chat room someone Tivo refutes the rumors that harbor is a core component of its business OK [TS]

  I will read that link later to see like. You know I I read that. When somebody posted it earlier. And the com. [TS]

  The actual response from the Tivo person is kind of double speak. [TS]

  It basically sounds like they're trying to scare people away from buying the Romeos. So it's basically saying like. [TS]

  We're going to keep supporting the Romeo. But it doesn't really it's a lot of double speak to basically sounds like. [TS]

  Yeah. We're gonna keep supporting that but don't expect much else. Because our We're focusing on cloud. [TS]

  And that's what it's kind of like when when a Panasonic are getting out of the. [TS]

  The Plaza business for like a year leading up to there was like there'd be a story say oh it's a panic was getting an [TS]

  unpleasant as the Panasonic would issue some statement that. [TS]

  Neither confirm nor deny is [TS]

  but kind of Drysdale you know it's OK you should buy our existing T.V.'s because we haven't already clear. [TS]

  But never officially saying we're getting out of the business still like the whole year is up [TS]

  and then Panasonic then finally officially says yes it's true we're getting out of you know where there's smoke this [TS]

  fire but we'll continue with that a look at story after the show. [TS]

  That's why I prefaced it was saying I just saw this link just before we came in who knows accurate is kind of fuzzy [TS]

  information but things don't look good but it was Nintendo. [TS]

  I don't think there's any news here like we all knew that [TS]

  when you wasn't signed that well I guess they could have sold gangbusters. In December but even if it did. I mean P.S. [TS]

  For an X. Box One sold. Pretty well in December. Like they're they're coming out of the gate strong.. [TS]

  And they got out so by the three D.S. And one of always said about intend on this is the. [TS]

  The time of year when people are going to keep posting more stories about what intended should [TS]

  or shouldn't do whatever is that as long as there's a market for dedicate a gaming devices. Nintendo can. [TS]

  And Magento has a way to thrive and to. You know to be successful and to be the Nintendo we want to be. [TS]

  Just because there is a way for them to do that doesn't mean they will do it [TS]

  but that's the this thanks in that you know. Subtleties that most people will probably forget about. [TS]

  There is a way for an intended to to win. As long as people are willing to buy hardware that mostly just play games. [TS]

  If people stop being willing to buy her brother just buy games. Intended can't play anymore. [TS]

  Because intended can't make a general purpose a Wes I don't think that on a decks pretty they can barely make a [TS]

  dedicated came consuls software stack. [TS]

  They can't make something based on Android they can't make their own IO as they can't be a platform they can't they [TS]

  just can't do that they don't have the. [TS]

  The people do that it's very difficult to do so as long as people keep buying dedicated gaming devices all intending to [TS]

  do is make really good dedicated gaming devices with really good games that people want to [TS]

  but that's it does sound easy doesn't it. Well. If they don't make game. [TS]

  Hardware The people want to buy games to be want to buy. [TS]

  They can still fail under that scenario but at least immobile I called out of the question they can't like. [TS]

  I think there's nothing they can do to say we're going to make our own operating system. [TS]

  And our own app store and our own general purpose platform to does more than games. [TS]

  That's that's just out of the question for them. [TS]

  The only thing they can do [TS]

  and the only thing I think they should do is try to make game devices that people really want to buy with great games [TS]

  that people want to buy into and that's that. [TS]

  And they're not doing that now they made that were you know one thing was the wanted for. [TS]

  I think what should be fairly obvious reasons of this point it's it's weak. [TS]

  It has bad third party game support because it's weak. It's like a. [TS]

  It's like a previous gen console that no one is really interested in [TS]

  and that the novelty this time of the second screen is not catching on with people [TS]

  and into no hasn't demonstrated why it should catch on and is just a bad situation [TS]

  but they do have fourteen billion dollars in the bank. [TS]

  As I said I think a couple months ago [TS]

  when this came up in the first round of Nintendo Well it's like they just need to like reset. [TS]

  And think about what they're going to do for their next thing I don't know you don't need to give up on the way you. [TS]

  They still has they still need to put out whatever games they have planned for that we you know even if it doesn't sell [TS]

  a lot of units [TS]

  and third party support is disappearing for that will you because who the hell is going to make a game for a crappy [TS]

  console they can't run modern games and has very few. You know is not selling a lot of units. [TS]

  No one's going to slap them to games that it's grim. [TS]

  But then ten will make games or because untenable make money off its games or. [TS]

  And we know what choice do they have so I think that will just make games of the way you put them out the thing will [TS]

  sort of fade away and in total thinks. Need to think about what's going to do next. [TS]

  Spend that part of that fourteen billion dollars wisely and come out with a good idea with a good platform [TS]

  and hope that by the time they do that that the market for they get a gaming Harbor has not disappeared as a said many [TS]

  times I think there is room for one more generation of dedicated to gaming hardware and this is it. P.S. For an X. [TS]

  Box One after the P S four X. Box one seven eight years from now. [TS]

  I'll have to revisit that question [TS]

  and say is there's still a market for data get a game where maybe then the answer will be no [TS]

  and then intended whiskered But for now. [TS]

  Intended just that a big swing and I miss this generation with their console's. [TS]

  And maybe get like a foul tip with their handheld look at it do you think. Are they in worse shape now as they were. [TS]

  When it launched against you I know the Game Cube was not a huge success was it. [TS]

  There were there worse off now in terms of sales [TS]

  but I am assuming they have much more money in the bank now than I did back then because they write the Game Cube. [TS]

  You know. If you look at the chart the Game Cube. [TS]

  Sold more than easily more than the way you like a for all the problems of the games you had Nintendo would kill the [TS]

  Game Cube like numbers on the WE they did not have now. And that the D.S. Sold way better than the three D.S. [TS]

  but A lot of that is kind of like look at the downward trend to dig dedicated gaming devices like overall the market is [TS]

  slowly declining. And so everything's like relative it's like. Well the three D.S. [TS]

  Is doing well now but nothing about a D.S. In the Game Cube. [TS]

  Was seen as a failure because it was a third place console then [TS]

  but boy what Nintendo would give to sell a game cube like members of were you at this point. [TS]

  So if you take off your Nintendo fanboy and I mean that a good way hat. [TS]

  You're the only one of us that has we you and when. When we visited I played it for five minutes and it seemed nice. [TS]

  But whatever. Each taking off the hat. The fan boy had is it a good system. [TS]

  I know what you just said about it being not very powerful but just in general is it good. [TS]

  The games and intend or will make for the way you. And that they already have made. [TS]

  Demonstrated as a platform that you can have fun games on and I've said before you can have kinds of fun [TS]

  and kinds of games on the way you that you can't have in any other consul because of that weird second screen thing. [TS]

  Doesn't mean that they're the most amazing games in the world but there's experiences you can have other places. [TS]

  And like than tend to land the thing that demonstrates like here's the in different ways you can use our combination of [TS]

  hardware some of them are fun some of them are but out of that big. You know collection of many games. [TS]

  There's three or four in there that are really interesting and novel. [TS]

  That can't be matched anywhere else and so if you're in. If you're into games and you want to say. [TS]

  Show me a new way to be entertained instead of just another first person shooter. Intended. [TS]

  Is showing you that kind of like on the X. Box. One on the X. Box three sixty would connect. Microsoft said. [TS]

  You can stand up in front of you and wave your arms and legs around. [TS]

  That's a new way to play games try that deal like is it fun. [TS]

  Whether you like it [TS]

  or not that's something you can experience on the other consuls because they don't have the connect you know they may [TS]

  have the I Tory and the other things the cameras or whatever [TS]

  but they're intended does have something novel with the way you and. [TS]

  So that's one aspect of the second aspect is Nintendo makes great games [TS]

  and their games are going to be on the way you know that games are not going to be on any of the other council So if [TS]

  you're interested in playing the next. Velda game. [TS]

  There's only one place to do that and maybe the next building game won't take advantage of any that we use features. [TS]

  Unique features at all but it'll still be a great game. [TS]

  And it's kind of the same reason I got a Playstation three to play a class Guardian which is a lot and released. [TS]

  But you know journey is an example. Journey was and is not available now. Any other platform. [TS]

  I would buy a P S three just to play journey. [TS]

  Journey could be on any platform doesn't use any unique features like analog stick [TS]

  and buttons it's not like you need to connect bars like you need a second screen is a very straightforward game it [TS]

  could be a P.C. Game. Helical probably even exist an I O. S. God forbid. But it was only on the P S three. [TS]

  So that's why I bought a P S three. [TS]

  And I continue to think that you know that's the way forward for an intended was make awesome hardware the people want [TS]

  that third parties are willing to support themselves in big numbers. [TS]

  And also make your very best games and put them only on your hardware. That's it. [TS]

  Just simple as that in general I don't see what the problem is just going to make awesome games [TS]

  and hardware that people love in order to win you have to do well geez. Yeah. [TS]

  I mean like this people keep talking about structural things like oh. [TS]

  They need a different strategy even intended itself saying you know what to look at smartphones and do this [TS]

  and do that it's like. I don't think that's a winning strategy for Nintendo because I don't think intend to can. [TS]

  Can do what it does it you know people keep making this analogy and saying like not apt or whatever [TS]

  but there's enough aspects of it that I think our app that's worth revisiting the thing about again. [TS]

  It's kind of like when Apple was in trouble and they were totally in trouble like in the ninety's. [TS]

  And people are saying Apple has to get out of the hardware business and just put MAC OS on on Windows P.C.'s right. [TS]

  Because what they're doing now is not working. [TS]

  They're not making hardware that people want to buy people kind of like the software why not just put that software on [TS]

  other people's hardware. And you can argue that has Dave jobs not returned. [TS]

  Apple would have gone down the tubes and gone bankrupt people would've said say you should just put macro us on P.C. [TS]

  Hardware. [TS]

  You're stupid thing of selling you you know why are you glad you keep doing that why do you keep sticking keeping your [TS]

  software just your hardware the nobody wanted. Why don't you just put on generic X. Eighty six hardware. [TS]

  And now you're out of business you should listen to me. [TS]

  But he says they've just came back and did like the thing them to leave things so easy. [TS]

  How about you just make computers that people actually want to buy. [TS]

  And then you know you put your good software on you make that even better too and when you have hardware [TS]

  and software that people want to buy you can become successful. That's not. [TS]

  Simple as up is going to have all that other things as well [TS]

  but there is a definite analogy in that one intended makes is a combination of hardware [TS]

  and software The gives a unique experience that is potentially better than all of its competitors [TS]

  and that's why people buy it. People bought the we. [TS]

  Because it was crazy waggly remote mixed with some software that made that crazy waggly remote fun. That's that's it. [TS]

  All you gotta do is make some of the of want to buy. And if. If you if you said. [TS]

  If you said OK well I'm just makes all for all you do is make soccer the want to [TS]

  but how many copies of software do you does intent or need to sell for I O. S.. [TS]

  To make the kind of money they make even off of their crappy failing. We you and their. So so three D.S. [TS]

  You know three D.S. Games like thirty dollars a pop. WAY YOU games like sixty dollars a pop. [TS]

  And you know and then they gotta be making money in the way you consuls itself. [TS]

  Intended can't come into I.O.'s put out sixty dollars games [TS]

  and expect like I mean you just do the revenue graphs on like well if I saw one dollar How many do have to sell the [TS]

  sell so few dollars we know how much I'll sell comparative I saw one dollar does intend to have to start making [TS]

  freemium games like it's. It's a whole different market. [TS]

  You know and never never mind what kind of games could you make on i OS [TS]

  and now you're dependent on different hardware a vendor [TS]

  and you can't innovate gameplay because you're you're at the mercy of what kind of hardware Apple wants to put out [TS]

  and how well they're going to support your games [TS]

  and whole category games can even exist without the physical controllers all you just sell to people with physical [TS]

  control isn't it how to make a physical controller. Now you're selling to a fraction of a fraction of a market. [TS]

  Anybody willing to buy a physical controller to play Nintendo games in there I was device would also be willing to buy [TS]

  a three D.S. and You know. [TS]

  Television game consuls with a controller there they just buy Bluetooth controller an airplane there I was device [TS]

  and you're right about the lag like there was no good way out for Nintendo in those areas I think Me Tender should pay [TS]

  no attention to the smartphone space. Because they can't be a player there. [TS]

  They're never going to have their own platform the never going to have their own net zero S. [TS]

  That becomes the price of doing business. They're doomed. [TS]

  For now it doesn't look like a still marketed to get a game console. They just make when the people want to buy. [TS]

  Sounds easy. Yeah I know I didn't consult me for them either way I would have told them. [TS]

  There's a couple of articles like you know the hindsight is twenty twenty articles guy like I was at a game developer [TS]

  the show is that where you and I totally new the should be making us because it was the hardware was too weak. [TS]

  You know it's easy to say that in retrospect [TS]

  but I mean I probably would've said the same thing about the way a standard definition of game console ever else going [TS]

  on each day you're doomed well they weren't so doom there. [TS]

  But yeah I don't think they could pull that off second time and they didn't. Yeah. [TS]

  I think part of the part of the problem with that is that the we was really successful because of this fad that that it. [TS]

  That introduced. [TS]

  You know it is totally not a fad a fad is something that like you know comes and goes quickly [TS]

  and as has no lasting value the motion control. I would say that is that what you said. [TS]

  Coming goes quickly and has no not. No lasting value. I bet. [TS]

  That is the pattern for the majority of we owners of how they use their we. [TS]

  It lasted an entire generation that we dominated the entire generation motion control is not going away every single [TS]

  modern console has motion control coming out the butt but it's like. [TS]

  It's like saying well the Macintosh because the Macintosh lost the it sounds uncomfortable. [TS]

  The Macintosh lost the Windows does that go we thing was just a fad. [TS]

  And yet now every modern computer has a good about it they're not a Macintosh So I guess the whole do thing was a fad [TS]

  motion control was not a fad. Well that's not a fair. That's on a fair assessment. I think. [TS]

  Because you know stuff like Google is you know you use it and then you keep using it and it's. It keeps being awesome. [TS]

  Whereas the we. I bet. [TS]

  I've almost everyone I've I've ever heard from who has a wee has said they had the same problem where they. [TS]

  They got it they played it. They played the crap out of it for like you know a couple of weeks or months. [TS]

  And then they never turned on again. [TS]

  And then eventually goes in the closet [TS]

  and eventually goes away like a computer needs software so if you've got a Macintosh [TS]

  and people to start making applications for it and do most enough for the mac [TS]

  and like all these other programs you want to play were not for the knack. [TS]

  You know it's like well I had a mac and I used a lot of them. [TS]

  Like I played the few games that I had [TS]

  and I used to the software have all the new applications are coming up for Windows so I put the Nikon claws [TS]

  and I got a one as machine and I use their go yes. [TS]

  Like it's a platform you do need software to be release for it and making it standard definition didn't help. [TS]

  And Nintendo's relationship with third parties didn't help [TS]

  and eventually the only thing available on the way were terrible crappy shovelware ports of like ancient P.C. [TS]

  Games or last gen console games. And all the. [TS]

  New titles people want to play Warren available of the we had also what do you need to keep playing we sports for eight [TS]

  years because you're not going to go into the closet it's a platform right. [TS]

  But you can't say that the Welsh in control with a fad and it went away [TS]

  and that's why it's because no one made new games for it no one made new exciting popular games where were everyone [TS]

  else wanted to play like you know. [TS]

  Mass Effect and the new hello games [TS]

  and even of an exclusive jazzy multipart word Grand Theft Auto Call of Duty Modern Warfare like all these games came [TS]

  out their vailable for P.C. Three sixty and P S three P.C. Via three sixty or P S three. [TS]

  Never the way because the we can't play because it was too weak. It just aged out. No no one made no software for it. [TS]

  So what you're saying is I was right. [TS]

  No it's not it's not just the motion control was a fad you're saying like oh I didn't say that much control as a fat I [TS]

  said the way it was a fad. It's the way it is not a fad. [TS]

  The we was just a console didn't have a good third party support the Game Cube a similar as the games you've got older. [TS]

  You know third party games came out for the other platforms and not for the Game Cube. [TS]

  Like [TS]

  and intend it was really bad about third party support because it's caught between what we can support our own platform [TS]

  with our first party games. [TS]

  And what we kind of want third party games to round out the platform [TS]

  but we don't really care those guys make any money. [TS]

  And the people like well screen you we're not going to games your platform anymore. [TS]

  Unless you sell in huge numbers near my soul [TS]

  and your numbers only did with attract the vultures to say well make a stupid time game for my movie [TS]

  and sell away version. Just to get some free cash because so many weeds out there in the world. [TS]

  And then people would buy the crappy movie tie and game for the way and the kids would play and say the Sox and. [TS]

  It was like is like this when I had twenty six hundred the Atari where eventually. [TS]

  Everybody was making twenty six hundred games [TS]

  and just devalued the entire you know concept so we as a product was a good idea and a good product. [TS]

  The relationship with third parties was terrible and they didn't support it [TS]

  and it just fizzled out I mean any console can do that like if any of the other console makers. [TS]

  Had the same problem that they put out hardware that was too weak to play modern games [TS]

  and didn't have a good relationship with third parties they would fizzle out and die too. [TS]

  If Nintendo would simply made a Playstation four with a second screen on it. [TS]

  And had Sony or Microsoft level of intelligence about third party support. [TS]

  There we would be selling like hotcakes because who wouldn't want to P.S. [TS]

  For the can play the next Marienfeld again everybody would like you have your cake [TS]

  and eat it too is no reason you have to choose you know two things. Except for price. But Nintendo has always. [TS]

  You know said what we want to keep it as cheap as possible and we think the work great in a did with the we kind of [TS]

  but even that ran into their stupidity about third party relationships. Well. The reason I brought up this thing that. [TS]

  Inside of this big fire is because you know it's. It's always a myth. [TS]

  It's always a flawed strategic flaw in business if you. If you don't really recognize. Why you are. [TS]

  You have been facile in the past or the present. Because you know if you. If you attribute president past success. [TS]

  To the wrong factors. Then you'll probably do the wrong things on your next project in Europe coming. [TS]

  You know direction. And so I think from intended to say. You know. Oh well the. [TS]

  The we sold really really well and therefore we have to keep doing. Gimmicks like this. It's not a gimmick. [TS]

  Well hold on. So this is kind of been intended M.O. [TS]

  In the last few generations of consuls where you know it used to be in the olden days of like eight [TS]

  and sixteen bit into any even the N sixty four [TS]

  and tender was basically doing the same kinds of things as everyone else. [TS]

  And in some ways they would do they would do things better. And they had these awesome games. [TS]

  To carry them and to really be that the foundation of their business that we was this new hardware gimmick that. [TS]

  Excuse me this new hardware method that. That was very successful in the market. Briefly. [TS]

  You know it met at least in that one generation and years and briefly for eight years well OK. Regardless. [TS]

  It was very successful be and I had this new hardware thing. This new kind of thing. The. D.S. Had these two screens. [TS]

  That was very successful. Right. [TS]

  But is the reason it was very successful because it had two screens or because Intel made really good games [TS]

  and they happen to make the best portable game system. And it happened to have two screens. [TS]

  You're right there Miss attributing things [TS]

  but it's not that mess education because the like that we sold an amazing number of that because it had a novel input [TS]

  to write your problem and here's his Nintendo's problem is that they competed with. [TS]

  You know Sony and the original Playstation one in ten sixty four that was kind of the turning point was for them [TS]

  and a little bit of the as any US as well. [TS]

  And they didn't do as well as they thought they should it we have a great product we have a great. Games. [TS]

  Why are we losing to Sony this newcomer into the market why are we having trouble with Sagan there you know Genesis [TS]

  and stuff like that we should be crushing them where Nintendo we should do great out. [TS]

  And the Game Cube really brought the do ahead with likes the game he was in it's an amazing piece of hardware. [TS]

  It was the best console of that generation Harbor wise. [TS]

  And we should really be killing these guys why don't we made this thing and. [TS]

  And we came in last place why why don't people want to buy our stuff is our nor games good. [TS]

  And so when the we came around the like. [TS]

  We keep failing we need to do something different and they look back at why they had failed and I said. [TS]

  I think we fail because we're not giving people something different. [TS]

  We're just trying to make the same thing as everyone else and they said. [TS]

  Here's what we can do mill like something different to how about we use motion drone they're actually think about [TS]

  motion control for the game he was well demotion to troll and they couldn't figure out why they kept losing [TS]

  and they're losing because they're just obstinate about third party relationships with other developers like Sony one [TS]

  because it was nice to third parties intent always want to screw them. [TS]

  Because intent was that we sell our first party games [TS]

  and you pass through the nose to for the privilege of being on our platform and another company came in there [TS]

  and said we won't be such bastards to third parties [TS]

  and intend to continue to refuse to believe that that's why everyone is crushing the was not because they make better [TS]

  hardware. It's sure as hell not because they make better first party games. [TS]

  It's because the not jerks a third parties and Nintendos bills want to hear that and. Unfortunately the idea that. [TS]

  Here's what the problem with the problem was we didn't make something that was there was interesting enough we're just [TS]

  doing the same thing there are no he doesn't mention that work for them they said Aha See that was it wasn't that all [TS]

  that stuff people saying about us not having a good relationship with third parties was just because we want to give [TS]

  people something new so [TS]

  when it came time to make that we you they said we could do that thing again where we make something new [TS]

  and so they made something new and it is new and interesting. [TS]

  It's just not as interesting as motion control is coming from a previous you know. World Without motion control. [TS]

  And they kept having that we card where. [TS]

  And it fell on its face because you know they continue not to realize that the reason they keep failing is because they [TS]

  don't have good. Again. If you could buy Nintendo console and had all the modern games on it. All of that. [TS]

  You know ahead Grand Theft Auto had called duty had everything it looked at it looked great it was competitive Are [TS]

  there any else. [TS]

  Any third party game here off the neck that you should be sure it will be on the new Nintendo console it was just like [TS]

  the three sixty or the P S three sometimes on the recently sometimes on the P S three. It's probably on the P.C. [TS]

  Intent was not even in that conversation for multiple generations now. [TS]

  And if they can't be in the conversation the only people are going to buy Nintendo console are people who just want it [TS]

  for the first party games. And it's their stupidly limiting themselves. [TS]

  I was wonder if there's a parallel to Apple here in that. [TS]

  Apple is getting more and more anger directed at them by third party developers [TS]

  and we've we've gone through the ratings kerfuffle thousand times and the review kerfuffle a thousand times and. [TS]

  I was fiddling with with certificates [TS]

  and provisioning profiles last night for fast HAXTON I want to throw myself off the roof of my house and. [TS]

  I thought I'm definitely reaching here. But I can't help but wonder if. [TS]

  Nintendo and Apple both were were or are in a position where they had the ability to be smug [TS]

  and to act like the king of the world. [TS]

  And eventually what we've seen with Nintendo is that didn't last [TS]

  and the more friendly to third party developers up starts came around and eat their lunch and. [TS]

  I'm being overdramatic but I can't help but wonder if that's the future for Apple if. [TS]

  If they don't start improving things like i Tunes connect improving things like developer relations and. [TS]

  And they certainly got a heck of a lot better Marco you would know better than any of us how much better it's gotten [TS]

  but I don't know it just it strikes me as a vaguely parallel path. [TS]

  Yeah the difference in attended was that their their heyday [TS]

  when they really where the king was back with the N.E.'s there was so long ago and maybe the as any as [TS]

  and is just like is that carryover kind of more like Microsoft. [TS]

  Where they were in a dominant as long as Michael was but they were as dominant as Microsoft for a brief moment in time. [TS]

  And that's their image of themselves. And even a change of C.E.O. Is like the change of C.E.O.'s at the old guy. [TS]

  Yamauchi got to pull back and finally now we get someone who realizes they're not the king of the world anymore [TS]

  and the new guy. [TS]

  Did the we wish a quick a new guy comes in it's kind of like the return of the job new guy comes in [TS]

  and something Tendo is back on top of the Consul heat but again. They're on top like they were. [TS]

  They didn't recognize their previous problems they just happen to find something else that would give them a turbo [TS]

  boost above everyone else [TS]

  but they kept all the old same old attitudes like the expectation that you can make a new console. [TS]

  And do it just like that we again [TS]

  and think that everything will work out fine because you know to be that much more amazing that everyone else like it's. [TS]

  It's like Microsoft thinking that for so long war Microsoft when we make a tablet people will buy it and [TS]

  when we make a phone unless people will buy it and Windows Phone will soon be the dominant phone platform [TS]

  or will be in second a strong second place [TS]

  or whatever like you just get an image in your head of like where Microsoft where the king of everything obviously [TS]

  anything we do is going to be successful and. It takes repeated failures to get through your corporate head that. [TS]

  Actually no that's not you're not going to automatically [TS]

  when you can't you can't do that you have to you know developer tools. You know like. [TS]

  It is kind of like it's more like Apple did it too. [TS]

  To the other developers with almost like if you look at Apple's developer tools for writing. Apps for i OS. [TS]

  Yeah we may complain about them and everything but compare it to phone development. Before the i Phone. [TS]

  Like you know using X. Code to write applications for i OS is so far beyond. Using whatever the S.T.K. [TS]

  To write Nokia phones. Nokia apps or whatever. It's like night and day. And so no wonder. [TS]

  Suddenly Apple has tons of third party support for applications in every other phone platform just goes away. [TS]

  At this point. [TS]

  Nintendo is not that bad compared to their competitors but Nintendo's strength is not making developer tools [TS]

  or middleware other things not that it's really. [TS]

  Sunniest or Mike's us strength the the but sunny markets are gotten better at a fast [TS]

  and intended same thing with online X. Box Live in the Playstation Network. [TS]

  Again they're not great at it but intend it was terrible. [TS]

  And so it's kind of like intended was the king a long time ago [TS]

  and that everything worse than all the competitors now except make fun games. And does those. [TS]

  You know it's that stuff is coming home to roost. Do you think some part of it also is. You know back. [TS]

  Back in the sixteen bit. Era. I mean it actually even thirty two slash excuse for era. [TS]

  The first one that back then the best games for a platform. [TS]

  The both both the best critically acclaimed ones [TS]

  and the ones that would sell the most were usually first party games by the platform vendor. [TS]

  And that is no longer the case these days far as I know it seems like these days. [TS]

  The big blockbuster games are made by third parties who have really no reason unless they have some kind of big pricey [TS]

  business deal. The really have no reason to limit themselves to just one of the consuls. [TS]

  And so it becomes you know like if you want to play the latest call duty [TS]

  or the latest Madden football you can learn anything. [TS]

  And it's in their best interest to put out the games for all the console then so it's a lot less of an advantage to [TS]

  have the strong first party library as it used to be because most of the games people are buying [TS]

  and getting excited about are available on the platforms. [TS]

  It's so expensive now to make a AAA title that people can afford to have a Swiss is like. If you're going to. [TS]

  If you're going to be A or something you're going to Madden. [TS]

  And someone wants you to make a schools have to their platform is going to like you realize how much money got the past [TS]

  to do that because in a sort of even horse race between one. When you know between two or three competitors. It's like. [TS]

  Are you going to pay for all the copies that we could have sold on the X. Box. [TS]

  You know if the subjects only wanted to be exclusive or pick any game like that like. [TS]

  You can't afford to pay that like that's why these people buy studios like oh my god who buys bunged Well now we don't [TS]

  have to pay you to make helos because of the X. Box we bought your whole company. Make for the X. Box only right. [TS]

  And even that bunch you found a way to rebuild the way out so it's next game could be multi-platform. [TS]

  It's just so expensive it's the only people who can afford to make a game it was who do a platform. Are like gaming. [TS]

  Studios that are going down the tubes we need to tons of money [TS]

  and they'll take whatever cash payout they had to go exclusive or you know. First parties. [TS]

  I don't know if there was ever ahead A where the first party games are always the best. I guess maybe in the ne S. [TS]

  Days I mean intent was always his first part against I've always been you know. [TS]

  Among the best on on any platform anywhere. That's easy one. [TS]

  Sega I guess they had sonic in the Genesis days [TS]

  but was that really the best games that Nintendo the only one who's been so dumb figure out a lot I was a say a guy [TS]

  back then they had a lot of really good games in the and sixteen but era. Even I would even say. For the Saturn. [TS]

  You know we didn't sell well. Well. Yeah that was the only only game so to say yes sure. [TS]

  Even that generation I think Sega have the best having incident. [TS]

  I think intended had by far the best and sixty four games. Playstation change the like that was their deal. [TS]

  Like what think of the first party Playstation as like Crash Bandicoot. You know me well I'm the first the first. [TS]

  The P.S. One games really were not that great. The P.S. One mainly succeeded. Because the Saturn was a bomb. [TS]

  I mean the Saturn. Kind of made space for it. And then sixty four wasn't out yet. [TS]

  And you use cartridges when it came out right. Although I. [TS]

  I will stand by that being a good decision actually looking at looking back at the load times [TS]

  and everything like well it was really bad it's a different intent. [TS]

  It had advantages but like the reason intended it was because A they're stubborn and be a people with pain [TS]

  and tended to make their cars if you want to make a game forensically for intent like it like that [TS]

  when the other stuff. You'd have to pay an intended to make your cartridges for you. [TS]

  And they intend to charge profit on that it's likely like free money like why would he rather we let you make a ten [TS]

  cent CD. When we can charge you for these are. You know this cartridges. But you know. [TS]

  My point is like in this new era of. [TS]

  Most of the big popular games are multi-platform intend to will always lose that battle because they're not in the [TS]

  cutting edge hardware and ecosystem game like they're not in the game at all and so they're going to keep losing [TS]

  but they could be the like with the games your proof that they could be because the Game Cube. Hardware wise. [TS]

  Was more than a match for its competitors like there's no reason that they can't be because they don't make. [TS]

  You know they pay a fee I had I.B.M. or Whoever makes you know that like. Yes for an X. Box one. [TS]

  Is that I am they both have a name D.C.P. Used to. You know like they could. [TS]

  Into know can go to the same vendors just like they were the Game Cube. [TS]

  You know the Game Cube was even more extreme because I.B.M. and Eighty i were also in the X. [TS]

  Box three sixty S I was like you know there was right there. [TS]

  Like they were all using the same vendors you don't have to make the stuff yourself. [TS]

  They just chose not to compete in that it's not there's not something structural [TS]

  but an intent of that prevents them from making a console they can host all the modern games. As a business choice. [TS]

  Well I don't know it because it isn't just about the hardware now it's about these online services. [TS]

  Integration with cable boxes and stuff like that like it's all these things [TS]

  and intend to really has never shown any interest in doing something is terrible that to and. [TS]

  There have been slowly like Microsoft the only company that knew anything about online because like you know their P.C. [TS]

  Company they know about platforms they know about networking stuff like that Sony didn't know anything about the Sony [TS]

  stuff sucked and they slowly learned in a tender stuff. [TS]

  Has always sucked continues to sockets like slightly more than Sony. But like it's. [TS]

  It's a it's not outside I think this is something that attendant can do intend it can make online games they have [TS]

  intended can make like social media. Lobby type things they have done that they just do it badly. [TS]

  Sony also doesn't that they Microsoft does it less badly but there's nobody who's like. [TS]

  I guess maybe Microsoft is out ahead of both of the other ones but Sony's pretty crappy of that too. [TS]

  So like the bar is low I feel like they could they could cross that hurdle [TS]

  and again you have to like now it may be a little bit too late but that's so many years like X. [TS]

  Box Live came out so many years ago. Intended. If they got their head out of the by the reset. Are we suck at this now. [TS]

  Let's get good at it slowly over many years this works is what Sony did and Sony still terrible at it [TS]

  and they you know they lost all those passwords and their service is not as good as X. [TS]

  Box Live and [TS]

  when the P S four came out you know it has integration with streaming in the headset support itself I think they [TS]

  learned it's possible. And intended was just much slower learner and are too stubborn or whatever. [TS]

  But I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. [TS]

  Our final sponsor of this week is our good friends at fracture. Fracture print. Prints photos in vivid color. [TS]

  Directly on to glass. Go to fracture Me dot com. To learn more. [TS]

  Fracture prints are the thinnest lightest and most elegant way to display your favorite photo. [TS]

  Every fractures handmade and check for quality but our small team in Gainesville Florida. [TS]

  And in this very well packaged box they send they include everything you need to your photo on the wall [TS]

  or desk including. Even the little screwing are priced are just twelve dollars for a five by five inch print. [TS]

  And there are many more shapes and sizes that very reasonable prices. [TS]

  The small ones actually really good for Instagram photos. [TS]

  Small square or low or smaller time with the small squares also. [TS]

  And I last met a fracture sponsorship within two weeks ago. I revealed that I had recently ordered. Apt icon. [TS]

  Fracture prints so it's a small size five a five inches. Twelve bucks each. I got all my big apple I've worked on. [TS]

  I got those printed out and stuck them on my walls of my office [TS]

  and it's like a nice little row of kind of used trophies. Of. [TS]

  Of apps I've worked on and I even just got a new one that are right a few days ago. The original Tonks art. [TS]

  That had the. The little walking arrow press. CEMEX and French press. [TS]

  I had I went to them and got the original source of that and pretty my own little copy [TS]

  and it's awesome just love it exits bigots I told myself as you know so might that. [TS]

  What's great about these things that the you know they're very lightweight it's the front is this nice glass her voice [TS]

  but then at the glass layers than enough that it's pretty light [TS]

  and in the back is this nice like kind of I don't know a thing or of foam board or something like that. [TS]

  So you hang it up and it's not like whenever I hang a big framed photo so if original fall off the wall and shatter. [TS]

  And I'm always so afraid these things I'm not afraid I guess hang up with no stress. It's awesome. [TS]

  Anyway I go to fracture Me dot com to learn more and try them out. [TS]

  Check out get twenty percent off with the coupon code. A.T.P. Fourteen. That is A.T.P. [TS]

  Fourteen thanks lot to fracture for sponsoring our show. [TS]

  All right what else we want to talk about should we should be breached the net neutrality shop. [TS]

  Topic because this could go for hours. Even I have a lot to say about this. There's a lot there. [TS]

  I think any any loss of net neutrality is really bad and really frankly. [TS]

  A likely disaster for our industry and many others. But I legally I don't know enough about what just happened. [TS]

  I don't have a good legal understanding of and I haven't been on the reading on it myself to read no appetite. [TS]

  Patel's article on it. So I. I don't really have a lot to say on that right now. [TS]

  Well I just want to briefly add and then John all I ask for your two cents. There is somebody tweeted in output. [TS]

  A link in the show notes and in the chat and this may not be the originator. The original instance of it. [TS]

  But somebody tweeted a really interesting graphic that basically said. [TS]

  Hey if you want really fast Netflix that's an additional ten dollars a month [TS]

  and if you want really fast blah blah blah that's an additional fifteen dollars a month and it was. [TS]

  It was extremely interesting and a really. [TS]

  Ominous sign of what Net neutrality could mean or the loss of Net Neutrality could mean for the future [TS]

  and it was a really clever way to hammer home that if not all traffic is created equal that could lead to some very bad [TS]

  things and it's very frightening and just like you said markets very very potentially dangerous for the industry. [TS]

  Also I thought the Fred Wilson post was really good too Fred Wilson is a good you know know he's a he's a big investor.. [TS]

  I actually know me really nice guy and his blog is a V.C. Dot com because he is a V.C. Anyway. [TS]

  He had this great post on it. Basically just like these these scenarios. [TS]

  Of these the a radical future investor meetings where he's meeting some some you know young. [TS]

  Startup founder who wants to. You know get some funding and. [TS]

  They're describing like oh well I I had this great idea for this new music startup where this is like a new streaming [TS]

  service going to have these differences no streaming services and he's like sorry. [TS]

  We can't take that because Apple it already. [TS]

  Oh and Spotify and beats of all paid all the telcos to get their transfers not count toward your data allotment. [TS]

  And you won't have that power money so. [TS]

  No isn't a buyer service because it's going to count against their data so we were not going to fund you. [TS]

  And I it's and that's going to happen with that kind of thing where it's not going to affect everything. [TS]

  You know if you're just. [TS]

  If you're running text [TS]

  and transmitting text all around it's probably not be big enough to to matter get throttled like that [TS]

  but you know you don't know and there's there's all these other. [TS]

  You know dramatically affect any kind of large transfers. Definitely would affect pod cast no question about it and. [TS]

  And so that that hits home for me certainly. [TS]

  And it showed for you if you're listening [TS]

  and so there's there's that aspect is also one that I like a lot was met drench this piece on Apple outsider. [TS]

  Where he also you not only does he go into all these other good ones the also says like you know there's also a problem. [TS]

  of privacy where now like yeah right now your I.S.P. [TS]

  Can look at everything passing through and where it's going [TS]

  but there's not really much of a reason for them to there's no business case for it so they probably aren't [TS]

  and generally. [TS]

  There's not you know they didn't really have motivation do that [TS]

  but with this they would have to look at everything you're doing and. [TS]

  And they would have business reasons to do it and so there's massive privacy implications for it as well [TS]

  and so there's all these all these problems with. You know what. What a lack of net. All. [TS]

  And you know the arguments about free markets and everything else. And you know the regulations benefits in some cases. [TS]

  Don't really apply because there's not a lot of competition. [TS]

  In most broadband markets and mobile the rules are different and I got enough about this to really talk at length [TS]

  but the rules are different for mobile networks. [TS]

  And you could look at that and say Well mobile is competition for the broadband which it is. [TS]

  But you know as long as mobile data caps. Can be burned up with like watching Netflix for an hour. I don't think it's. [TS]

  I don't think we're in the same league here and so you know. [TS]

  Home Broadband still has a big role for a lot of people and. [TS]

  As the cable companies and phone companies [TS]

  and these home program companies as they add things like phones her HAS TO THEM [TS]

  and THEIR OWN on demand video as people start cutting cable service to say oh well. I don't need to pay for your T.V. [TS]

  Service because I just buy everything online those. [TS]

  I a speech are going to have more [TS]

  and more really big business reasons to do evil crap like this to do things like throttle. Netflix throttle Skype. [TS]

  You know all these all these you know I mean look at what happened with Vonage forever ago if that was one of these [TS]

  first cases. They're going to have reasons to do all this stuff. [TS]

  Big business reasons and so you know they're going to do it. [TS]

  It's not like they have morals and are sitting around saying oh yeah. [TS]

  You know you know we're Verizon we're Comcast reversion to be nice to our customers no they're going to screw you every [TS]

  chance you possibly good I mean come on these companies. They have it in their D.N.A. [TS]

  To be complete to everybody that's every company that's how companies work that's you know that's. [TS]

  If there's a business case to do some big thing they're going to do it. [TS]

  And so it would be foolish to think that if these companies were permitted to do stuff like this that they wouldn't do [TS]

  it. [TS]

  Of course they're going to do it [TS]

  and where you're going to turn there's nowhere to go there's chances are you know most people have at most two options [TS]

  for their broadband at home. Usually. Usually you can choose between one cable company a Monday cell company in the U.S. [TS]

  and I don't I think in the rest of the world. [TS]

  Some places a better some places are worse I think overall it's not that much better on average [TS]

  and might even be worse. Yeah. [TS]

  Generally speaking you have between one and two broadband companies choose from in the U.S. And so. You know if and. [TS]

  It most places those one or two at the same one or two like there's not that many bias P.S. [TS]

  There's like five or six big ones in the whole country maybe and you know. [TS]

  So it doesn't take much like at Comcast over eyes and say OK we're going to. [TS]

  You know we're not doing this thing that's going to affect like. [TS]

  You know a quarter of the country or something it's a big number. And so this is a big deal and. [TS]

  We need regulation like in the role of government regulation is where the market. [TS]

  Can't do the right thing for whatever reason where where it's dysfunctional. [TS]

  Or impossible [TS]

  or completely impractical for the market to do of things that are best for the people for the best for the overall [TS]

  industry. That's when government regulation is most needed. And that and. [TS]

  That's definitely case of broadband broadband there is no competition. [TS]

  And we need the government elation and it's not happening and that's really scary. As a. [TS]

  The problem of net neutrality and experience this problem myself with trying to explain to my mother. [TS]

  And for all the people are going to complain that I refuse my mother is an example. [TS]

  And that's insulting because who's to say the mothers don't know stuff about technology I'm using my mother example as. [TS]

  In this case and in many other cases because she's the one of my parents who is most interested in [TS]

  and knowledgeable about technology. [TS]

  So she's the one who's actually willing to entertain discussion with me about net neutrality. [TS]

  Not because she is less competent. So let's get the mother as it's. [TS]

  It's not a hypothetical it's my actual mother and actually sponsor and that's the reason I explained to her [TS]

  and now my followers I follow doesn't care doesn't know about it doesn't give a crap about it anyway. [TS]

  I try to explain that a trilogy to her. [TS]

  And it's difficult in that image that Casey was talking about but showed the big price sheet of like. [TS]

  So you wanted access well for next five bucks you get Netflix or ten bucks [TS]

  and my impression was not that you get fast Netflix is like Oh so you on Netflix with the Internet that I'll be [TS]

  hijacked and Ahlers Oh so you want to have you know. H.B.O. Go with that that'll be ten X. [TS]

  Dollars or you want to go on Facebook that'll be twelve extra dollars. [TS]

  And it's made to look like it does when you buy cable now. You want cable T.V. [TS]

  OK Well here's the base price if you're on E.S.P.N. [TS]

  It'll be this price and if you want to be a part of our premium package that's twelve dollars like buying a B.M.W. [TS]

  You know you've got to get the. You know. The problem with that image as terrifying as it is to nerds. [TS]

  Is it a regular person like oh well thirty hired by T.V. and It's not that bad. [TS]

  Reich No it's terrible when you buy to be don't you understand and the television. It's terrible. [TS]

  In some ways but on the other hand it also subsidizes a lot of channels that are good things about bundling [TS]

  and bad things but in general. [TS]

  If you go from a situation like it's different because those are services that are being a bundled together [TS]

  and a package of things that you have to pay for and all the things that the pay for this is basically thing a wire [TS]

  and saying we're only going to let certain you know it's a negative instead of a positive only let certain things to [TS]

  write else you want to slight Netflix traffic and pass this amount of money. [TS]

  And now what Netflix traffic go through your house. [TS]

  That's not an Internet service provider anymore that's I don't know what that is [TS]

  but that's not that's not selling providing access to the Internet that someone preventing you from having access in [TS]

  the Internet to varying degrees based on how much you're going to pay them [TS]

  or how much they're going to pay the companies or whatever. [TS]

  The problem with that image I think is it looks too familiar to people [TS]

  and it won't be terrifying to be able because they don't realize the implications [TS]

  and this is the difficulty I have trying to explain. Net neutrality to my mother or to anyone else. [TS]

  Is that it's very difficult to in part on them like the thing that we all know [TS]

  when our Got to like this is the end of the Internet as we know it if you don't have an internet. Interconnected. [TS]

  Network of computers they can all talk to each other [TS]

  but instead have an interconnected series of toll booths that you have to pay money for for information to get one [TS]

  birth you know that defeats the entire purpose of the Internet. And you know I speak don't want to be dumb pipes. [TS]

  And we all want to be dumb pipes and that's the constant tension it's there between us and them [TS]

  and the role of government regulation like. In any free market type system. It's not like. [TS]

  When companies can't do the right thing it's. [TS]

  The incentives are aligned for companies to make to maximize their profits. [TS]

  And if those are the only incentives in the system. [TS]

  Then yeah the companies will go off [TS]

  and do those things that will cause incredible damage in the long run because that will make the most profits the you [TS]

  know. Become monopolies we have anti-monopoly laws and you know if. [TS]

  If they will and net neutrality be they will make them more money we need to counterbalance that [TS]

  and the counterbalance can't be other private market companies like the something someone said to me on Twitter. Well. [TS]

  If I a speech do this won't other net neutral as pieces crop up to compete with them. [TS]

  That's that's an interesting fantasy scenario but unfortunately with the exception of wireless. [TS]

  The all of the wires [TS]

  and fiber optic cables going to be able to house is is the barrier to entry to say OK well Comcast is terrible [TS]

  and Verizon is terrible. And they're all not neutral anymore. Longer start my own eyes P. [TS]

  Great Well let me know when you run wires to everybody's house in the United States. [TS]

  That's that's a significant barrier to entry or even for wireless let me know [TS]

  when you pay for all the spectrum you plan to use [TS]

  and again the regulations are different about divvying up spectrum between people in common carrier stuff in the same [TS]

  thing with the wires this summer Galatians this area ready. But you can't rely on the private market. Not to to. [TS]

  You know tele get away. [TS]

  Told the room that neutrality because they will make them more money [TS]

  and if their companies they're trying to make more money that are not trying to be magnanimous or advance. [TS]

  Civilization they're trying to make more profit so there needs to be a counterbalance that [TS]

  and that's why all the nerds are helping the government fulfill its role as being a counterbalance to private industry [TS]

  to prevent private industry. From doing what it does like those machines are aligned in a certain way to make money. [TS]

  And we should let them run off [TS]

  and do that right to the point where they start causing damage in the needs to be a counterbalance. [TS]

  And it's just it's too esoteric and weird. And nerdy and even even if it's small the happens. [TS]

  Like it's it will just happen in pieces one of the time [TS]

  and everyone who was happening to were to simply accept it as the way things are until two generations from now. [TS]

  The Internet could be dead as we know it and no one would care [TS]

  and no more never put up a fuss is one of those type of things like you know a slow moving type of disaster where you [TS]

  have to kind of be a little bit chicken little and say The sky is falling to get people's attention. [TS]

  Otherwise this terrible thing will slowly happen to them. And you know. [TS]

  And they'll they'll accept it like they want to even wake up one day [TS]

  and be induced hope you know just like was just the way things are just the way things have always been a well. [TS]

  You know I'm glad we don't have much say about this. Yeah let's talk about some of the time. [TS]

  Well we weren't talking about the events regarding that a tragedy in general that concept [TS]

  and that's I think that I think is enough you know he said talking about what happened in this court case there what [TS]

  how is the battle going from that neutrality just. [TS]

  The concept of net neutrality concept that one computer can talk to another computer and send data through it [TS]

  and they'll pay for internet access to get access to the Internet. [TS]

  And it's undifferentiated and the one that there is flow through the tube like that doesn't sound like much [TS]

  but if you take that away and turn into some crazy told to think it just destroys the whole endeavor. [TS]

  It you know destroys every part of it. And even if someone who doesn't directly. [TS]

  Make my living on the Internet in the same way that say Marco does. [TS]

  Obviously still indirectly make my living on the Internet because the consulting that I do in my day job is all. [TS]

  Web based. And even despite being slightly removed from all this. It absolutely scares me. [TS]

  It petrifies me the thought of losing that neutrality and and. Net neutrality was the the great equalizer. [TS]

  That you know there's no reason that. [TS]

  Marco couldn't make a read later service or that Marco [TS]

  and David couldn't make a new blogging engine because they had the same right to the same pipes as everyone else did [TS]

  and to take that away. [TS]

  That that's scary you know we're in such a wonderful time right now where anyone in a good while I guess you could [TS]

  argue anyone in the garage can always do something credible but. But it's so much easier now I mean. [TS]

  Hey look at the three of us three people in three. [TS]

  You know converted bedrooms [TS]

  and three houses across eastern United States are able to reach tens of thousands of people on a weekly basis. [TS]

  And that's really powerful and really incredible and we're very lucky for that. [TS]

  The three of us most especially but I like to think all of our listeners as well. [TS]

  And just like Mark alluded to earlier you know imagine if we had to subsidize the three of us had to subsidize getting. [TS]

  Our podcast to our listeners you think ads are bad now my goodness. [TS]

  The show would be eighty percent chance if that were the case. And the funny thing is like. We already pay for that. [TS]

  Like the cable companies of wanting wanting payments from like Verizon and from like you know Google and Apple [TS]

  and Netflix the like that. Google and Apple enough likes are already paying to upload that data. [TS]

  They're already paying for their data centers to have continued to all the big backbones. [TS]

  And like we already pay for the bandwidth for this show. [TS]

  And thank God lives and is unlimited because they've lived [TS]

  and was unlimited this show it cost like a thousand dollars a month and BAM with a loan [TS]

  and you know we already pay for that everyone already paid for their upstream band with [TS]

  and the cable companies don't get that money directly you know they they are offering access to these big backbones [TS]

  and I don't. [TS]

  Unfortunately the details of how all of that works in the way peering through one's work [TS]

  and who pays who in all the cases and everything but you know they didn't build that infrastructure. [TS]

  There you know they have parts of it they have their own of structure to the home [TS]

  but like they are offering you this product that's out there that everyone else is already paying to be into. [TS]

  And they want they want money to they want they want a cut to even though. [TS]

  You know no one's ever had to pay for that before you to get to that final that last mile. [TS]

  Thing is like day it is not a water. [TS]

  Like there's not a volume of water going through pipes like well a certain volume water goes through our pipes [TS]

  and they wear down our pipes and we have maintenance for a valve when the pipes and. [TS]

  There is telecom equipment that you have to have. But like at a certain point. [TS]

  Like once you have the equipment set up the amount of data going through it if it's anything less than a hundred [TS]

  percent or. You know ninety percent of the capacity refusing one percent of the capacity of the hardware. [TS]

  That's just wasted like it's not enough well they'll be less wear [TS]

  and tear on our routers now that there's less traffic on the main. [TS]

  I guess and some are someone to write and say well the heat generated by fully stress right now to me like. [TS]

  But it's not it's not the same as paying for like cars going over road cars destroyed roads as a go over them. Right. [TS]

  And not water through a pipe like at a certain point you would like them [TS]

  and the marginal cost of putting extra day which is why they have these period grievances like well. [TS]

  Otherwise been with me just be idle so I'll pay you [TS]

  and you'll pay me into law work out there's all this strange kind of make believe money changing hands [TS]

  or period it was just to make the entire internet work because the data has to change [TS]

  and it has to go from both the other [TS]

  and everyone is always jockeying for position of who can make a little bit more money off of this. [TS]

  But in the end what we just wanted to be is the Internet this conceptual thinking of like i Cloud that is just giant [TS]

  embellished term for this huge networks of computers and hardware and wires and software. [TS]

  That is run by a giant nomination of people all trying to make with one big sort of emergent living entity called the [TS]

  internet work where any computer can talk to any other computer of a has IP address. [TS]

  I P V six will be a topic for another show and. [TS]

  And that's that's the system we're trying to preserve here and at every turn like companies are trying to say. [TS]

  Yeah but we can make more money if X. Y. and Z. [TS]

  And it's terrible [TS]

  and like the worst argument of our brain is like the free market thinks the government regulation is bad you're [TS]

  stifling competition and bulb lot. [TS]

  Marco talked about it before the Ninette neutral internet has been the largest driver of free market like capitalism [TS]

  and economic growth that the world has ever seen. Like you know. Two guys start tumbler. [TS]

  And it makes how many what is it. How many billion dollars to Yahoo pay for it or whatever. [TS]

  Like if you don't have a net neutral engine and can't let to go. Like it is. [TS]

  If you take that away [TS]

  and say oh well now only the big guys going to like you have destroyed so much more of the economy like yes you made [TS]

  the I speeds get richer. [TS]

  The price has been like a huge amount of innovation [TS]

  and market value that you've totally destroyed by not making it easy to enter this market like it's a. [TS]

  It's so incredibly short sighted. [TS]

  To Pete for people to say government regulation is always bad free market is better because you know the Internet is [TS]

  the free market is the most the thing that has enabled more businesses to spring into existence to add value to the [TS]

  economy to employ people than any other invention in the entire world [TS]

  and to destroy that just so I speed can make more money it's so insane. And again this. [TS]

  This entire concept and all this is so hard to explain to people who don't know [TS]

  or care about it which is why fear every day that will never House say in laws in this area because no one understands [TS]

  the issues involved. I don't know lawmakers though. If you look at the history of of actions taken by the F.C.C. [TS]

  In the last fifteen twenty years like does not a lot of things in there that give you a lot of confidence they're going [TS]

  to the right thing here. You know like it's it's it's terrible it's too. [TS]

  It's too nuanced and so Terex and like and even less like Lawrence Lessig up there [TS]

  and other people who are trying to explain it like they do such a good job explaining like Surely now you must [TS]

  understand that he did such a thing that unlike Nope still don't get it. I need. [TS]

  Campaign donations from Comcast and scaring everybody. It's miserable. [TS]

  Well with that let's wrap and I thank flood two or three sponsors. Lynda dot com. Harvest and fracture. [TS]

  And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to be good because it was accidental. [TS]

  It was accidental. John didn't believe Casey would count because it was accidental. It was accidental. [TS]

  And you can get a B.B. Down. [TS]

  And if your choice there and he well you know says that that's keeping lists and the [TS]

  and can't see Marco are limited by our study. Let's face it risky is as so I ended up on a sour note sorry about that. [TS]

  I mean any discussion of technology in politics is going to be fat. Yes that's true. Oh it's so painful. [TS]

  The only way the i Pad Pro [TS]

  and all the after show too late matter is the for say the fun of the shows I think it's worth being an actual [TS]

  Unfortunately the prop kind of beat us to it and I did a better job of it. [TS]

  Did you hear her ego or Tiki's discussion about this with I think it was just Mike that week. On the probably getting. [TS]

  Last week or two weeks ago when he was last week. I'm still the middle the giant i Phone keynote up. [TS]

  That's good I I'm kind of mad that we didn't think of doing that you know I know me too. [TS]

  It's so good I don't think I want to record that episode [TS]

  but I'll listen to exactly Well that's one of those things like when they. You know when they put that out there. [TS]

  I saw that and I was in my in my list [TS]

  and I was skeptical I was like Man I gotta listen to a two hour plus pod cast come on I heard the F.O. You know. [TS]

  You know I watched it like I don't need to watch this or listen to this. And I listen to it and it was so good and. [TS]

  When it ended I was like oh it's it. [TS]

  Like that's that's [TS]

  when you know that you don't need to worry about cutting your show any shorter like if people going to listen to it [TS]

  and say wow that's like I'm kind of upset there's not more of that even after you know two hours and ten minutes [TS]

  or whatever it was. That's really good and they had a park that was so good. [TS]

  The other shows good general are really good in general [TS]

  but caught that up so it was so annoyingly good number ily jealous and I'm bitter it wasn't us. [TS]

  Because what was good about it was that they didn't just go through the Apple Keno [TS]

  and say oh here's what happened this happened. [TS]

  They they gave really good context of what the situation was at that time and right before that time. [TS]

  And why some of these things were so groundbreaking. [TS]

  And a lot of that stuff I had forgotten about you know like why some of the stuff was so impressive. [TS]

  How you know how the room reacted to seeing like scrolling a table view for the first time by touch. [TS]

  Like that was a big reaction like you think about it. Why that was a big reaction because of what. [TS]

  What we had before the i Phone and. It was really good it was. [TS]

  The context they provided was was very very good and made it extremely listener bull and very interesting [TS]

  and very upsetting when it ended even if you've heard the i Phone. You know the million million times before. [TS]

  It's still worth it. [TS]

  The name [TS]

  or opium on the show because they have their their history a lot of their history of like watching Apple has like [TS]

  started around the time like that was that was an apple first you know you know that you kind of been doing this whole [TS]

  thing for a while. And so.. [TS]

  As always I wanted all first like meat on the show to say well you know what enters the i Mac. Without a pedestal. [TS]

  Just work you get up from the heart. Still sharp head to jump onto an airbag. [TS]

  That's a real power reference and any will get our IT. [TS]

  Now I'm high was the start of listening to Marco and unprofessional [TS]

  and realizing that realizing the written the depths of his his pop culture lack of knowledge that are all right. [TS]

  I don't OK. Excuses. Well why does Marco have an excuse. You know he's unique. [TS]

  Maybe your proximity to Marco is preventing you from engaging in the culture of producing entertainment. [TS]

  Yeah I don't know I just don't spend I feel like I watch a crud loaded T.V.. [TS]

  and Apparently I don't watch any or I just watch the wrong T.V. And you're watching and C.I.S. [TS]

  The senior citizens know what I did watch C.S.I. For a long time I know you're going to cause I was close. [TS]

  Hanson Suman out. Rotate around your hands again. Look a license plate. [TS]

  Everywhere back it was born twenty years early to be watching Matlock injured. You're probably right back at her. [TS]

  So the reason I brought up the problems in the ad pro. They had a good discussion. Last week where you know. [TS]

  Federica teacher brought up the really good point is he's he's like the i Pad Pro. Like he is the i Pad per user. [TS]

  He might be the only one I don't know maybe him a doctor during know he I don't think even use one anyway. [TS]

  The the reason why so the rumors are that Apple's going to make a larger I've had maybe twelve point nine inches. [TS]

  Issue. And that this will be a quote. I Pad Pro of some sort. [TS]

  And the rumors are all really confused an inconsistent is to have this is going to also be a convertible. [TS]

  MacBook Air with a keyboard. [TS]

  You know an optional keyboard there it's one that would fold back like a convertible tablet [TS]

  or whether you know whether it would even run O.-S. [TS]

  Tenor I.O.'s whether we'll have an Intel or an ARM processor whether has an ARM processor that runs. Oh S. Ten. [TS]

  Who knows. And. And so the problem with all these rumors is that. And you know maybe the O. S. [TS]

  Thing is more interesting [TS]

  but the problem is that the size of the i Pad is not really what the hell what's holding it back. [TS]

  For most types of quote pro uses whatever that means with that whole discussion of what that. Even might mean. [TS]

  The size of the holding it back there are uses of the i Pad where people want to bigger size like I had asked on [TS]

  Twitter a couple of weeks ago when this for a first came out like. You know what. What a bigger I've had even solve. [TS]

  You know who's really asking for that. And the most common responses were either. [TS]

  Nobody I like my many or it was of course really you know a bunch of geeks follow me so now. It was that. [TS]

  Mostly [TS]

  but it was also a lot of people who do music production in particular said that they would love a lot more screen space. [TS]

  And so that and there's a few other. You know. Verticals like this where you know. More screen face would be nice. [TS]

  On the i Pad and would be worth the extra size but for the most part I truly don't think it's mass market and. [TS]

  The problem is that. The size of the screen is not holding back. Pro usage. [TS]

  What's holding back her usage and this is what they were talking about the prompt. Is I.O.'s. [TS]

  And the structure of the restrictions of violence. [TS]

  And this is not an easy problem to solve this is like the multitasking system is really extremely rudimentary [TS]

  and I.O.'s and very limited. Document. [TS]

  Models and file storage and sharing data between applications and all that stuff is extremely primitive on I O. S. [TS]

  and Says so limited. That's really most of the problem and if you're going to make a quote pro I.I.S. Device. [TS]

  I.O.'s itself needs major changes and that's not going to happen quickly or easily [TS]

  and many of those changes would actually make I.O.'s worse. At its core functions and so they probably aren't like. [TS]

  I'm guessing that this kind of pro i O. S. Is probably not really happening. And I think. I think the pro. [TS]

  The the i Pad Pro The pro. Super compact mac is the math book air. Super Committee. [TS]

  Apple device I think it's the MacBook Air. I think. And we ran it about this before which I got some flack for but. [TS]

  But action a process that's funny on the prom Federico was arguing with with a point that I didn't make [TS]

  and he clarified that of the very beginning but most listeners I think missed that. [TS]

  And so they were telling me oh he was he was ripping you a part of the problem he actually wasn't actually agree with [TS]

  most of us that I think. But anyway. You know if you. [TS]

  If you're hitting these massive barriers with the i Pad [TS]

  and having to jump through all the different hoops of balancing between ten different apps in these weird your all [TS]

  schemes that are kind of have to gather and and try to share data and weird. You know. [TS]

  Weird methods because you can't share it directly. [TS]

  If you're if you're doing jumping through all these hoops and doing all these weird hacks. [TS]

  Maybe a MAC is really the better solution for you and for pro work. [TS]

  If what you want to do does not fit comfortably in an i Pad and eleven X. MacBook Air is really not that much bigger. [TS]

  And it's not that much more money than a reasonably well equipped i Pad and. [TS]

  And it will last longer probably And you know it's. It's just like. I think the border is. [TS]

  If you're if you are needing to use a keyboard. On the i Pad frequently like a ha. [TS]

  If you're if you're buying a hardware keyboard. And using it frequently. You'll probably get a better served by a mac. [TS]

  Say I want to say this for a regular show but you know our job it was the sole law [TS]

  and I thought I knew this would be quick I figured I'd burn it. I mean I have. [TS]

  I have I actually have a quick thing to say about it as I think I'll sentence that again [TS]

  and say that I'm pretty sure I'm the first person who I recall. [TS]

  Like I didn't hear anyone else say i Pad Pro when I talk about a hyper kind of up so dear is ago. [TS]

  I don't remember how it came up but I mention that I'm very interested in a larger more powerful i Pad and. [TS]

  You know I don't know if i said i Pad probably did because the obvious name for it. [TS]

  Years and years ago I were you know. [TS]

  Basically as soon as the first i Pad came out it way to blow before there was a mini. [TS]

  I wanted a bigger more powerful I pet. You know and i Pad Pro. [TS]

  And I said no it's not going to happen anytime soon but you know. [TS]

  And Marcus question Twitter reminded me of this because he was like Who the hell's asking for a bigger i Pad because [TS]

  Mark was old now and he had forgotten or not listening that upset hypercritical right as far as I'm asking for. [TS]

  And the reason I'm out and I'm also a mini user but anyway. [TS]

  The reason I keep thinking about and I've had pro in the reason I was thinking [TS]

  when I probe of years ago if you turn your two. [TS]

  It's very simple [TS]

  and has nothing to do with these rumors bitched as many people point out could just be you know the new twelve inch [TS]

  MacBook Air form factor whatever. [TS]

  You can screen size rumors like Apple is ordering screens of excise there are four [TS]

  and then every product they could possibly fit that screen [TS]

  and you know like it's been a new retina MacPro they're going to put seven of those screens together anyway. [TS]

  Ignoring like that. Why do why do we care about and i Pad for a Why do I think this i Pad Pro thing and it's. [TS]

  There you very simple. [TS]

  I US is in their user experience in the macro most people think everyone would agree on that which probably means that [TS]

  I.O.'s or something like ice is the future of computing and if I was the future of computing or something like it. [TS]

  That means that anything we can do on our mac today. Will want to do something that's more like I was in the future. [TS]

  And that will mean that I was devices need to get bigger and more powerful. [TS]

  Just the hardware Yes also the software is a simple logical progression. [TS]

  You're going to want to do more stuff with I was devices because I was the future. [TS]

  I rest of Ice's are going to have to get both bigger and smaller probably not much smaller than they are now. [TS]

  They're going to get bigger and more powerful someday that it's not all probably [TS]

  but some of the things we do in our mac. That we can't do and i Pads today. [TS]

  We will have to be able to do and i Pads because they're the future. So they're going to think a bigger. [TS]

  They're going to have to get more powerful and yes they're going to get more capable [TS]

  and that's it that's that's the calculus is you know how to say they're going to come out now or this year [TS]

  or next year and I can't come out before until software changes of course all that is true [TS]

  but like that all the things I was getting rid of that we don't like anymore. [TS]

  They're not coming back are not going to be a new device that comes out this more complicated than the Mac like to [TS]

  going. It's the other direction right now. [TS]

  I was going to have to get more capable [TS]

  and hopefully not get as complicated as the Mac like the whole Continuum I was someone I and [TS]

  and Max On the other where they meet in the middle what happens [TS]

  but that form factor tablet form factor is going to become more capable. [TS]

  You're going to be able to do more stuff with it so the have to have a bigger more powerful one someday. [TS]

  I don't know when that day is [TS]

  but I continue to wait for it because it's in there you see I asked to see the tablet I was shocked Well I can barely [TS]

  do anything on this thing now. But. [TS]

  I can imagine a future where I can do way more with this thing and that way more is going to require a bigger screen [TS]

  and more power. And so that's that's that's my simple explanation for the i Pad Pro because it has to. [TS]

  It has to assume some of the mantle of the Mac. Eventual e. [TS]

  It will assume some of the mantle the knack of actually or will just go away and be replaced by something different [TS]

  but it has to do you know tablet form factor has to do that and so it's going to bigger. [TS]

  You know but that doesn't any Nothing you just said imply a difference. So when. [TS]

  When i hear i Pad Pro with that indicates to me is that there's going to be a clear delineation between i Pad regular [TS]

  and i Pad Pro be that much larger screen size which to me is a weak line and a dash line if you will [TS]

  or much better much better processor much more RAM or a much bigger. It's got to have a bigger screens us. [TS]

  But see I just I don't see why because one of the things that a mac can do that i OS devices can't do is a bunch of [TS]

  stuff at once and a bunch of stuff at once means. The thing you're doing probably can't take up the entire screen and. [TS]

  If you're going to divide the screen up in any possible way you need more screen. That's it. [TS]

  But I was the sum of the beauty of I O. S. Is not being able to do more than one thing at once. True. All true. [TS]

  Like I'm not saying that's going to go away saying well you wouldn't want to divvy up you like imagine giving up an i [TS]

  Phone screen now you have to i Phone app side but know this too small right. And even a full size current i Pad screen. [TS]

  I don't think you wanted to be that up. [TS]

  But if you're going to be using a tablet device to like development like the new version of Xcode [TS]

  and twenty twenty seven only runs on I O. Us right. You could want to see more than one thing at once. [TS]

  And you need more screen space to do it the same reason we all have multiple windows on our Macs now we're not going to [TS]

  be a multi window interface like that's too complicated right. But that's a continuum and you can. [TS]

  If you want to do more stuff with i OS you need to see more things I want and you. [TS]

  And it's not a smart idea to get this thing screen size and chop them up. [TS]

  So I think it's inevitable that a certain point you need more screen space to do otherwise it was saying maximum to be [TS]

  around forever and that is nothing you can do on a mac today that you can't do [TS]

  and I left that ever going to jump ship to like. [TS]

  Well previously you couldn't do that and I was but now you can appreciate all you needed to mak do that [TS]

  but now you can actually get away with it and I was we've already seen that happen in small degrees. [TS]

  Eventually we're going to reach a point where you say well. [TS]

  The only way we could ever do that and i OS is we need to be able to see more than one thing at once. [TS]

  And we can't do that on existing screens eyes that we need a big screen and a new O.-S. and A new. [TS]

  You know paradigm for how we're doing that whether it's the Windows eight way with Devean half [TS]

  or like they've got to come up with some of that because the need to do more than one thing at once [TS]

  and see more than one thing at once is not going away. [TS]

  Well but we've had throughout puting history we always had specialty devices that could do less. That were. [TS]

  That still had a place in the market but they never took over so things like game console [TS]

  or probably the best example of this. Where you have like no one with ever saying. [TS]

  Eventually game console are going to be so good they going to replace computers. You're forgetting the goofy again. [TS]

  It could do less than the command line. But it took over the problem. [TS]

  The problem I see with with trying to make tablets replace computers the biggest problem by far is the same thing I was [TS]

  saying. [TS]

  On my blog which was horrible in two thousand and nine as Basically there are always rumors apples in a make a tablet. [TS]

  And I wrote a few articles that were. The gist of it was. [TS]

  Apple's going to have to solve the input problem because the biggest problem with tablets [TS]

  and the reason they have taken off before. Is because of input. [TS]

  And because you know you have this weird thing where like you know it's it's trying to do computer tasks but keyboards. [TS]

  For tablets have always sucked. Unless they've been full on laptops or that do the convertible thing. [TS]

  In which case they're big and kind of crappy tablets. And so what are they going to do to solve this. Right. [TS]

  And in fact. They didn't solve it. [TS]

  He just punted they basically said you know what version to keep the onscreen keyboard that we have in the i Phone And [TS]

  that's going to work OK. And they did and it does it works OK. You know it's it doesn't work amazingly. [TS]

  It's very limited and. [TS]

  And there's a lot of things that people are demanding real keyboards for for very good reason because real keyboards [TS]

  work way better. And so they didn't solve the problem the i Pad. That doesn't mean they ever will doesn't mean that. [TS]

  Like I think. [TS]

  Multitasking on a full on a full computer kind of requires good advanced fast input [TS]

  and so you not only have to solve the keyboard problem of say an i Pad Pro wouldn't have a keyboard. [TS]

  Well so OK so maybe well so the bigger problem is. What do you do with the mouse. [TS]

  Because i OS doesn't and there was a discussion on a talk show this week about this too. [TS]

  I.O.'s has is not built for a mouse cursor. A mouse cursor doesn't really. I mean you could. Like it. [TS]

  Were you can do it in the simulator but it kind of sucks and. [TS]

  It's very clearly not made for that the experience of using a hardware keyboard with an i Pad [TS]

  and having to keep reaching up to the screen with your finger to touch things. Is really terrible. [TS]

  And so there's there's these major major problems I.O.'s that they would have to solve the eval I mean it's a problem. [TS]

  Only in the sense of trying to make it. Replace computers. [TS]

  When trying to replace compares it is trying to take take some of the functionality that currently are cars computer [TS]

  and allow it to be done on the i Pad. [TS]

  That's like this the history of I.O.'s and the i Pad things that previously required a computer and now feasible. [TS]

  On I with devices. Well yeah but that like that. [TS]

  That's always been the case that Iowa has always been you know expanding its reach a little bit [TS]

  but there are these major barriers that it doesn't really easily cross. Because of things like input and multitasking. [TS]

  It's going to be difficult. [TS]

  Yeah I mean the multitasking problem is not technically difficult but you are wise [TS]

  but like I think it has to happen because the alternative is relegating the human race to have to use. [TS]

  Windowed personal computers of the type of that we know now forever [TS]

  and they're just too complicated very ill be able to use like they're just the window to interface with file system [TS]

  access and folders and like. We all love it. [TS]

  We all think it's great it will always exist for expert users but humanity has voted. [TS]

  And they want things that they can touch that are not as complicated. And so we are tasked with you know. [TS]

  We have to find a way to make more things possible with the things that people actually want to use that are harder to [TS]

  screw up like that's just progress like make it so it's not so complicated as not so much knows it's harder to break. [TS]

  So it's more reliable. [TS]

  Like we've done that with i OS we've done that by shedding almost everything that you know that you can do with the [TS]

  present computer goes to how much of that. [TS]

  Can we get back without compromising the complexity and if we screw it up [TS]

  and bring too much of the computer stuff over die us. And. [TS]

  Will need another reboot and let's try this again and start over with a different paradigm. Sometime in the future. [TS]

  But I think this is a. What's going to happen is our opportunities to take it to make I was more capable. [TS]

  The include putting a keyboard on it maybe it does maybe a dozen maybe. [TS]

  You know what can you do without a keyboard are you do we need a mouse [TS]

  and we not need a mouse we don't like to reach up for the thing like you want to have an on our lap they want to have a [TS]

  better virtual keyboard it is like. I don't know what the solutions are to these things but like. [TS]

  Baby baby steps would just be you know Windows eight is already doing it with like if you've got a big enough screen. [TS]

  Sometimes you want to see a Twitter app on the side by your working other app or something you want to copy [TS]

  and paste from one after the other about doing a switch type thing like larger screen being able to see more in thing [TS]

  and once it is a small step in that direction. And if done well. [TS]

  Can open up lots of functionality that I haven't listened to the start of the podcast or talking about. [TS]

  But it could open up a lot of functional [TS]

  and I soon they're complaining about us like look I just want to do a simple workflow [TS]

  or I've got like a graphic get it or in some links in a web page and I'm writing text like you know. Just blogging. [TS]

  How much easier it is blogging on a Mac. [TS]

  But you have all those things kind of in play at once versus trying to do and I was [TS]

  and you feel like you conflicts watching stuff that as a semantical barrier with some clever. [TS]

  Software and a larger screen. [TS]

  Ignoring the keyboard input [TS]

  and just keeping with our fingers just being able to like do a simple blog post synthesizing from some graphics [TS]

  and text and links and stuff. That's like. That's our next step. See I don't think that's the next step. [TS]

  I feel like the next step. [TS]

  These giant and I know everyone's been beaten this to death [TS]

  but just in better interact mean occasion because if you look at what the T.G. Is doing with X. Callback U.R.L. and. [TS]

  And your Else Keams and chaining just ridiculous things together. [TS]

  I feel like if that was less user hostile in it will probably always be a power user sort of thing to do. [TS]

  But just a less user hostile way of doing things like whatever the Android does or like Windows phones. [TS]

  Contract whatever they're called the something right word for it I forgot. [TS]

  It is now but as it is intense on Android I think in contract and when is a right. Oh it isn't OK. [TS]

  That I think you're right now they say that it doesn't matter that you get the idea. [TS]

  I would love that and eyeless a write in it would be so much nicer. [TS]

  But it would enable us to do a lot of things like if you're doing a blog post yes it would be in a perfect world nice [TS]

  to look at something that your comment or writing a post about. [TS]

  On the left hand side of a landscape screen and your your editor window on the right. But to be honest. [TS]

  You know using your four fingers on an i Pad has to shimmy back and forth between apps [TS]

  and do the fast apps which NG that's sufficient [TS]

  and I don't most rather have the hurdle of swapping between apps to see blood. [TS]

  To see something that I'm commenting on and then comment on it and. [TS]

  I'd rather do that then have some crazy scheme of having our No two i Phone app side by side or. [TS]

  You know or something or something where the screen a split in half if it seems to me like that would be not not fun [TS]

  but we're talking about the same things that the plumbing that would have done printer been all this display issues are [TS]

  kind of. Neither here nor there because again the same the same ability to do more than one thing. [TS]

  Like to have more balls in the air once. [TS]

  Would still probably exist on the full size I thought even though they would probably never want to split that screen. [TS]

  Like it's the plumbing that makes it work it's just that when you have more screen space. [TS]

  Like think of think of this way America. [TS]

  First got like twenty four inch monitors [TS]

  or twenty one inches under the monitor is there a way bigger than a preview better like. [TS]

  You know you had a fourteen shells [TS]

  and you got twenty one is you need see the Windows user their new twenty one inch monitor like. [TS]

  This is awesome to have a gigantic monitor and then they would take the notepad window and zoom it to full screen. [TS]

  Fill their entire screen there would be like a text to be a little call never left [TS]

  and the whole Bestival be an expanse of white it's like. [TS]

  I think you're missing the advantage of having a larger monitor it's not so you could take all your good thing window [TS]

  the making huge because I mean people would eventually learn if it wrapping wasn't on that trying to read a lot of text [TS]

  that gets two feet wide. Is not comfortable. Like there's a comfortable with for a column of Texas you can your. [TS]

  I've you know net. [TS]

  And then once you've made it narrow What are you going to of all you can put something else in that space like. [TS]

  And that's why I'm game night i Pad probably not that is what everyone's going to use instead of a P.C. [TS]

  or Not that everyone who has an i Pad is going to get one. Just that they will exist. [TS]

  Kind of like the mac pro of the i Pad line that will exist. [TS]

  A tablet type device for artists for graphic designers maybe even for code [TS]

  or is if like you put a keyboard in front of the next code like. Instead. [TS]

  Imagine architects drafting table with a keyboard in front of it where it's all flat you're not reaching up at a screen [TS]

  or whatever. [TS]

  Like there are endeavors that you might be able to do worry like this is less complicated than a mac [TS]

  and I can get all the same things done and once you get a larger screen like that you know like well. [TS]

  You know all the plumbing is there I could do this with a forefinger swipe or whatever [TS]

  but I've got this gigantic screen it's like one hundred twenty inches. [TS]

  And it's beautiful touchscreen I can do these amazing things with and everything. [TS]

  But sometimes I just want to see more than one thing at so they have to come up with some solution that [TS]

  and the solution can't be a bunch of windows that sucks [TS]

  and we're just making the same stuff come back that we had before so I don't know what the solution is. [TS]

  But I think that's that's inevitable. If we ever want to leave behind the crappy things the that our computers. [TS]

  Make us endure now. [TS]

  But still get some of those advantages [TS]

  and some around that will still be the all the single screen phone that will still be the regular size I present all. [TS]

  people use. I'm just thinking of and that's the reason the pro is the name. The the i Pad Pro used by three D. [TS]

  You know. [TS]

  Modelers graphic designers people doing page layout of pages still exist anywhere maybe a few people doing web [TS]

  development maybe even people working in Xcode doing i OS devices. [TS]

  Hell maybe you could have one of the other windows could be your simulator. While you do real time updates and X. [TS]

  Code and it can recombine as your stuff in read time [TS]

  and you watch the the changes take effect in real time on the other things like you had it [TS]

  and then a programming language but not really going to what be very cool. But doesn't the. The move for O.-S. [TS]

  Tend to be more. I O. S. Like most specifically around full screen windows. [TS]

  And how that that support is gotten a lot better in Mavericks. And it's actually kind of usable now. [TS]

  That makes me feel like. [TS]

  Some sort of windowing system isn't the right answer [TS]

  and I know I'm harping on something that I really shouldn't harp on but I just don't see how any sort of [TS]

  when doing is really the right answer I think it's something else. [TS]

  It can't be that kind of Windows system and with the stand again. [TS]

  Like O.S.'s trying to become my more I was like and I was just trying to do more things that previously only O. [TS]

  Attend could do. And I don't know who will. Lurch. [TS]

  More in which direction and how [TS]

  and how that will go one like it I think my impression is that it's harder to make a macro is ten simpler Austin [TS]

  simpler than it is to make I was more capable so I would imagine that's why I think the future is making I was more [TS]

  capable and not. We can simplify us ten till it's just a simple virus you'll never do it nor should you ever. [TS]

  It would just be a disaster better to start with what you were so smart to start really simple and I O. S. [TS]

  and Just don't screw it up and. [TS]

  It's probably not going to be Windows like full screen mode [TS]

  and Austin is a great example to go like now we've made it simpler No you've actually just made it more complicated [TS]

  because it could be left all the existing ones because you can't get rid of the existing windowing system and. [TS]

  Nor should you. [TS]

  But now you have another mode to go into and I us to have the opportunity to do something better [TS]

  and I'm not sure what it is or how to work but it can't be like less than Windows. So it seems like the kind of jobs. [TS]

  Forestall dynasty. Was pushing for this. [TS]

  For the mac to become more or less like for us to you know get better but for the most part.. [TS]

  The you know the that era of Apple was pulling pulling the mac towards I.L.S. [TS]

  And it seems like you know now in the Tim Cook era. And the restructuring of the divisions. [TS]

  It seems like Apple is has become more confident in keeping the mac. The MAC and not trying to make the mac. I O. S. [TS]

  and. You know the. [TS]

  All this talk. [TS]

  and John you've you've kind of been on this to like all this talk about these two like you know merging eventual E. [TS]

  Has this built in assumption that that would be a good idea and that's inevitable. [TS]

  And I would question both of those things. I would say that you know. We saw what happened when. [TS]

  When Apple tried to make the mac. More or less like. It kind of sucked. [TS]

  And everything you're talking about about what I.O.'s would need to become more pro. [TS]

  A lot of ways that would make I less worse. [TS]

  Well I mean it's it's like I said the mavericks of you with picking the right things what they what the forestall jobs [TS]

  thing was like they were picking the wrong things to make the mac I.O.'s like. [TS]

  They pick some of the right things like the right things they did pick. We like for example. [TS]

  The App Store is a better way to deal with you know ignoring like the policy stuff just in terms of the mechanics of [TS]

  like installing applications. It's better. [TS]

  The app store away than it used to be where you go to Web page download a D.M.G. Amount of all. [TS]

  That's a simple the case in that came from my it doesn't necessarily have to look like I was a work the same way the [TS]

  finder is need to be replaced with. You know Launch Pad Mini with little shaky icons and excellent did that too. [TS]

  But the key feature is dealing with installing applications is a pain in the but it's not a pain in the butt [TS]

  and I.O.'s can we bring that simplicity to the MAC and they did [TS]

  and they brought a bunch of other crappy baggage with it right. [TS]

  It's just about picking the right thing so if you're going to go the other direction say we want to make I was more [TS]

  capable. [TS]

  Don't pick the crappy things that just make it is complicated [TS]

  and evil is the mac you got to find the right things like. [TS]

  It's not like you're bringing a feature over your bring a capability. [TS]

  Can I can I instruct someone over the phone on how to purchase and install an application on a Mac. [TS]

  Previously you could it's. Now you can write a good job on install. Not great right. You know. [TS]

  The like is just a tiny little bit like it's what I keep talking about falling off the Russian rough edges of all US [TS]

  ten. [TS]

  All the parts of it that are like complicated in ways that normal people shouldn't have to care about need to go away. [TS]

  And you've got and just do that part and not try to be like [TS]

  and we need to make this application look like an address book as it looks like that and I was [TS]

  and it's like no that's not that's not the important part of you know the important part of like seamless data sinking [TS]

  through the cloud and blah blah and they kind of screwed that right but yeah it's. [TS]

  It's difficult it's not saying it's an easy job that's what they have to do pick the right things the right [TS]

  capabilities to bring over some of them can't be carried over some of them. [TS]

  Shouldn't be carried over in some of them have to be done in a different way on the target platform. See. [TS]

  I would disagree that it's even possible to make a good combination. [TS]

  Like the problems that these two very different platforms solve. [TS]

  I think there's instrumental differences in attempting to merge I mean look at Windows all you know you're not going to [TS]

  get like one. [TS]

  Yeah I'm no one as I don't think anyone's argument you're going to both of these will go away [TS]

  and they were replaced by one thing like that's not going to happen because if you didn't replace it by one thing it [TS]

  would have to be one thing that has so many different modes that it access to different things like what's the point of [TS]

  view and have you have Windows eight or exact like. [TS]

  I could you could just right now make up a new brand name and apply it to both of us ten [TS]

  and I was a hey we're unified It's one operating system just when you install it on your MCE looks different [TS]

  and behave totally different. You're right it's exactly like Windows eight weathers the desktop version. [TS]

  And then this metro thing over there. And that's that's not useful to anybody. I think if. If both platforms. [TS]

  Maintain their confidence and there they're both OK being themselves. [TS]

  I think everyone's better off the platforms Apple the customers. Regular people. [TS]

  Nerds power users I think everyone is better off because I don't think. Trying to merge these two platforms together. [TS]

  Is possible to do well you know. But I think it's the in the things they're doing now. [TS]

  Of making the max employer and making I was more capable. Is the right thing to do. [TS]

  Carefully cautiously in the right ways. They've already had false starts. [TS]

  Some thought they tried to make the next employer in ways that were not appropriate. [TS]

  I mean and the jury's still out on a lot of them like autosave and stuff like kind of the right idea. [TS]

  Kind of not the best implementation but like. In general I. I agree with their motivation and what I owe us. [TS]

  Having multitasking like. [TS]

  Thumbs up right the most asking what your was not great is low but better [TS]

  and i OS seven right like they're doing it in a little bits and with and with some dead ends and you know like copy [TS]

  and paste was a good addition right. As Make I was more capable. [TS]

  Kind of you know you did that right but there was something you needed like. Baby steps. Sometimes that NS retreat. [TS]

  Figure out what you did wrong try again. And you know the big reset with i OS seven is another opportunity. [TS]

  And I fully expect. [TS]

  If and when they come out with something like an i Pad Pro and try to enhance I.O.'s to make it a worthwhile product. [TS]

  They'll screw up something about it. They'll make it more complicated than it should be the have to. You know I mean. [TS]

  Like the multitasking switch or it's like. That wasn't a great multitasking switcher. [TS]

  And it's gone now and I don't think many people miss it. [TS]

  But the idea that you would want to switch applications and that someone could be running. [TS]

  Like and [TS]

  or back around apps like that concept was good they just had to figure out the right time to do it the best way to do [TS]

  it maybe the current implementation is not great but like they're going in the right direction. [TS]

  In small pieces and that's look. I look down the line at that. And you're right in there I never see one zero S. [TS]

  Going on on everything because it doesn't make any sense they would have to be such an incredibly capable as to scale [TS]

  from a phone up to a P.C. Doesn't make any sense probably in our lifetime. [TS]

  But these two products should evolve to adopt each other's benefits to the degree that it's possible an appropriate. [TS]

  And we actually done now. Marco want to put this topic in the show called Marcos fault. [TS]

  God is so mean you just wait until I talk about A.V. Receivers have a time of it all just when we doing that. [TS]

  Let's start now. [TS]

  Why not good you guys a Google fireworks factory now you probably didn't know what the hell he's talking about on their [TS]

  right to make another sim Simpsons reference. Yes. [TS]

  Not all my pop culture references from The Simpsons but ninety percent of them are. [TS]

  I don't you know I have tempted to start software. Methodology. [TS]

  Kind of to troll myself and I do really like Romeo and Syracuse yet. [TS]

  What the hell was THAT WERE was I when that happened. There was no instead of the facility I kept a title. [TS]

  That's all the compliment the accidental hypercritical pod cast. [TS]

  It's a terrible title but a great compliment this is not an accident. It was no accident. For somebody X. [TS]

  and To get that one. No chat rooms you see what I'm dealing with here. [TS]

  I need some time to commiserate times have you said that I don't they just boggles my mind boggles my mind. [TS]

  This should totally be part of their drinking game like it's. [TS]

  Yep my part it's this should be on everyone's bigger boards. Do you see what I'm dealing with. [TS]

  When I when I get mad and become crazy because you guys don't know like the most. [TS]

  I mean not that much older than you as you have no excuses no excuse. John. Trolling you might be my theory. [TS]

  Thing the world. I mean. I love you. [TS]

  If you start trolling me it would work because like yours your actual Your actual lack of knowledge about pop culture. [TS]

  It's like impossible parity that time I've actually seen that movie [TS]

  but I lie just to annoy you was like well it's no worse than the ones you haven't legitimately seen so it's not even [TS]

  letting that effective trolling through. But it is there movie you can pretend to not have seen that is more. [TS]

  That is more implausible to the movie of actually not seeing Forest Gump. Part. No one likes Forrest Gump. Yeah. [TS]

  Speaking of the number fresh listen to Marco he was saying that he had seen the stars it was like Marco was in Star [TS]

  Wars I was so proud of you. Yeah. Course although I have not seen any Harry Potters and a lot of the Rings. [TS]

  You're not missing anything on the Lord Of The Rings I'll tell you that right now. [TS]

  No Star Trek's I was never a Star Trek guy so. The Aerostar tricks and your. Yeah. I've seen bits and pieces the T.V. [TS]

  Show here and there but never never liked that not only watched it. [TS]

  I see I was a religious next generation San next generation excuse me I'm already making myself some terrible. [TS]

  Already controlling. I know I'm showing myself. And John. And then. I watched all of the movies. [TS]

  Up through like the second or third next generation one if you know which one it was that was the last one. [TS]

  But I know enough to know that the even so the goods and the journo good. Debatable you should watch the J.J. [TS]

  Abrams Star Trek movies they're following sorry I have seen the new ones those are those are very good. [TS]

  I was talking about like the writer it was Star Trek Generations I think his last one I saw [TS]

  and then there were like four that were the next generation. Cast staff whatever you wanna call him. [TS]

  And I missed those last four or whatever was missing too much. And I didn't think you watch the T.V. [TS]

  Series sections so you can imagine that crew was not really cut out for action movies. Now. [TS]

  I mean I love the show Don't get me wrong. But A You're right they're not going to fraction. [TS]

  All right some titles here. Sorry yes. [TS]

  So I'm going through the the podcast by Lex and damn morn cult not playing where they go through. [TS]

  They go through movies that like everyone has seen that Lex and then more and have not seen [TS]

  and they like watching for the first time in recorded commentary track. [TS]

  Well they did manic and I don't think that the movie ever. Yeah I haven't seen OK I'm looking through here. [TS]

  So Beverly Hills Cop I've never seen that hard won I don't think I've seen that you've seen some of the recent one. [TS]

  U.H.F. I did see U.H.F. You're going to drink from the Far as I write it I hated it but I did see it. Field of Dreams. [TS]

  I pretty sure I have not seen I might have seen bits and pieces on T.V. [TS]

  Here and there but I haven't seen the whole thing I think. I've never seen a mannequin definitely not. [TS]

  I think I saw that when I was a kid and had inappropriate feelings about it if memory serves sort of LAX [TS]

  and Lethal Weapon definitely not lethal weapon I've seen. All I've seen on lethal weapons all the Beverly Hills cops. [TS]

  Once the field of dreams never seen you in your Jeff I don't think I've ever seen of course of seen Die Hard [TS]

  and come on. I'm not now. And that's it I guess. Titles people cannot. [TS]

  And I don't know how this is how John strolling you commonly off the titles try to think you know that you are the one [TS]

  looking through the playing I haven't listened good. I don't listen to the capital and under the commentary and. [TS]

  I don't see any amazing titles. So whatever. [TS]

  I'm a big fan of Romeo and Syracuse yet although it will have to as deliver mail correctly which. [TS]

  That's not the way the T.V. [TS]

  Was people's but I had to look it up and I tweeted about excited made a guess and I was wrong. Stupid name. Not a word. [TS]

  And I think they were roaming it's on your do you leave your room and you can roam over your house and the Internet. [TS]

  Can we go off here for just a minute before I pass out yeah I'll keep not picking titles alright thanks. [TS]

  Thanks a lot of listeners. Everybody are so good at this. We're professionals. [TS]