The Accidental Tech Podcast

50: Disk Light Observer Effect

 

  wanna put more bad music I have lots to choose from actually the high have [TS]

  nothing to complain about any more than music was fantastic I have something to [TS]

  complain about like turning on their their radio like top 40 radio in the [TS]

  nineties that's not attractive thing about that idea pro I put that in there [TS]

  just to make a second second run at this because after flashover talked about [TS]

  this and the after show and hearing it back I'm not sure I successfully [TS]

  communicate what I was trying to say was I listen to myself I don't think if I [TS]

  didn't already know what I was thinking I would have understood myself as I [TS]

  thought it start by asking you to see if you can summarize what I was trying to [TS]

  say about the iPad program when you fail to say what is in my head I will try to [TS]

  clarify wow did that happen like a week ago and I i have some idea give it a [TS]

  shot like what was it like like why does anyone ever on iPad 4 I'll try to give [TS]

  you the reason why I think I larger more capable iPad is an inevitable thing that [TS]

  will happen someday try to explain why I think your reasoning for why it had to [TS]

  be larger was that is that look as the OS gets more advanced and allows more [TS]

  advanced types of usage that you will have to at some point have some kind of [TS]

  multiple window kind of arrangement or the possibility for multiple windows [TS]

  whether it's split or you know whether it's like a fixed set up or or flexible [TS]

  set up but said it was something I was nearly about it has to get bigger [TS]

  because it will get more advanced and more advanced need more windows-based [TS]

  just like the secondary thing we ended up talking about what would be the main [TS]

  thing I think I'll take a shot of here the meeting was trying to get a majority [TS]

  of the better for people metric [TS]

  got back to it circled around back to it a little bit of the end but thinking of [TS]

  it in terms of like in the days of the DAS days before the graphical user [TS]

  interface with aggressive graphical user interface came along it was clear that [TS]

  you guys are better for people meaning that yeah the command line with unit [TS]

  sandoz and all the things that preceded is good and powerful you can get stuff [TS]

  done a lot of people can use it but overall you look at the good look at the [TS]

  command line say the GUI is better for people to use more people are going to [TS]

  be able to successfully use a computer with the go it's more pleasant to use [TS]

  its easier and it was maybe you haven't lived his number the debates but they [TS]

  were real debates about whether this whole Google thing is a useful idea over [TS]

  there's just some silly diversion what you mean we didn't live through this I [TS]

  live through this you were you were very young maybe you're still fighting now [TS]

  but they don't like it we were alive [TS]

  you are alive they were also in preschool well no that's not true I mean [TS]

  well maybe 410 in 1984 we were barely human but I mean if you consider the [TS]

  both of us were were PC guys you know we we're around release I was using [TS]

  computers before Windows had really become a thing I remember using windows [TS]

  three one thing he was a piece of crap because well it was a piece of crap and [TS]

  I remember slinging auto exact bat files like you couldn't even imagine and [TS]

  config sis files to figure out for which game and you to mountain which didn't so [TS]

  on and so forth you need to turn this into another retro podcast I'm just [TS]

  saying I was around for the transition in my own way on a industry level but on [TS]

  a personal level when you were when you were that age they probably weren't [TS]

  thinking about what it means for the future of the industry you know like [TS]

  that done that type of other people who are writing articles in magazines about [TS]

  whether this was a good idea or not but in hindsight it's so clear movies are [TS]

  better for people right and there was a big debate about it and and took a long [TS]

  time and eventually all computers all computers it goes I don't know they're [TS]

  not going to comment on my act like now the GUI you know the good took over [TS]

  because it's better for people to use iOS I think of in relation to the [TS]

  regular Windows now spider-man use when piano [TS]

  interface I think of iOS as not as big step for Macmillan degree certainly not [TS]

  but as another sort of discontinuity in that type of thing [TS]

  iOS and that have a touch interface is better for people and having a mouse and [TS]

  windows and menu bars and right clicking and dachshunds test bars and all the [TS]

  stuff their regular Windows type interfaces their Mac type interfaces [TS]

  used today I was better for people you see it yourself and like how much more [TS]

  willing people are to use iPads and iPhones and all these technology devices [TS]

  that people use that same people would be much more intimidated by like [TS]

  according to a real computer the good and again doesn't mean that the [TS]

  traditional Windows menu point their interfaces going away for the you know [TS]

  we still have the command line today will you know for the similar period of [TS]

  time but in general the iOS interface touch interfaces are better for people [TS]

  right and when I see that that makes me think there's no fighting against at the [TS]

  interface is better for people like it will eventually become the most common [TS]

  way that people use computers if it isn't already if you can't like [TS]

  smartphones computers and everything right and when I say that I think it [TS]

  can't be the thing that most people use for computing and remain as limited as [TS]

  as it is now because otherwise you know many people today continue to have to [TS]

  use computers because they can't get what they want to get done on this new [TS]

  thing and so my logic is the thing that's better for people to use here [TS]

  it's not quite good enough capable enough to subsume enough of the [TS]

  functionality of things like 10 Windows Phone sucks you couldn't do it you know [TS]

  anything the things you can do on das Ohr use command-line we're not even [TS]

  close to be possible in the GUI but eventually the GUI became good enough [TS]

  and subsumed enough of the functionality of the command line [TS]

  get the command line was relegated to a very small window in the same operating [TS]

  system you know it's there it's Sarah we can use them we want to it's important [TS]

  for developers and stuff like that but a regular person who buys America's not [TS]

  use the command line and some data be true violator radio version of iOS [TS]

  device doesn't have to use a Windows mouse pointer doing so it's just that [TS]

  simple logical progression if that's going to be the progression it's silly [TS]

  to think that this next thing that's better for people won't pass to become [TS]

  more capable and take on the mantle of the thing that it's replacing in some [TS]

  respects that's that's what I was trying to get a bit and you can disagree with [TS]

  that I guess you could say well I don't think I was is better enough or I don't [TS]

  think I was really better for people or I think I was will not have taken any [TS]

  the capabilities of the magnetic will stay exactly the way it is and I Russell [TS]

  has gone into the future and it does enough for people as it is but I see all [TS]

  the people who use a Mac every day and I'm like that's not the number of people [TS]

  use the command line every day is really small the number of people you the Mac [TS]

  everyday is humongous those people will want to move to the thing that's better [TS]

  for people to the Iowa style touch interface eventually if that device [TS]

  becomes capable enough for them to do their work on it how many of those [TS]

  people can you bring along how many people have to be stuck using a Mac was [TS]

  probably similar to the proportion of people who are stuck using my life is a [TS]

  command-line everyday certain professions and contacts will require [TS]

  the use of a plain old go to the same way they require the use of a command [TS]

  line today but there's tons and tons more people who use a Mac whenever using [TS]

  command-line those people will be using something like a terrible type form [TS]

  factor that's much bigger and more capable many years in the future when it [TS]

  becomes possible to do so so let me play devil's advocate for a second so [TS]

  everything you just said which sounds reasonable but everything you said is [TS]

  based upon an implied or stated assumption that the way that we have [TS]

  touch interfaces and tablets now is better for people then the you know the [TS]

  desktop and windows and everything else what if that's not the case so so here's [TS]

  some things to consider so first of all there's a few things about a worse [TS]

  I think we can pretty much all look around regular people and us and we can [TS]

  see that text input is definitely worse on tablets that on laptops done clue [TS]

  that at all because there's no reason that you wouldn't have a hardware [TS]

  keyboard well okay so I like that I want to talk about mainly is a menubar [TS]

  windows with little window which assigns sliding around on the screen [TS]

  you know clicking and right-clicking having a mouse instead of a finger like [TS]

  all that is what I'm getting at the text input it is a is an artifact of the form [TS]

  factor you know I mean like like that that the small tablet you expect to [TS]

  carry with you versus something would sit at your desk and I'm not saying [TS]

  people gonna tablet into walking around them if you are in designer some field [TS]

  began abusing this feature thing I envisioned you having something as big [TS]

  as your mind about like laid down like an architect's drafting table with a [TS]

  keyboard in front of it or something so that you can get your work done that [TS]

  context [TS]

  well ok so let's say this comes true let's say you you have a keyboard text [TS]

  input to solve for you you have easy ways to reach the interface from the [TS]

  keyboard and some kind of relatively ergonomic way so you know it wouldn't be [TS]

  like a taboo on a standard having to reach your hand up and touch the screen [TS]

  constantly so you have to address that somehow some kind of some kind of like [TS]

  precision pointing of some sort more precision than a finger whether that's a [TS]

  pen whether it's a mouse whether a touchpad kind of thing whether it's just [TS]

  a giant touchscreens the tux targets are small enough relatively speaking that [TS]

  they can be precise who knows but it would have to be a stylist I would [TS]

  imagine finding creative fields there people already using styles it's not [TS]

  even that big of a change [TS]

  ok so and I actually enjoyed the experience of being a panel that I don't [TS]

  use one regularly but I do ms more but I think a stylist is a perfectly fine [TS]

  solution of that if you know out of everything that we have so let's say [TS]

  you've added all this you have advanced which really get more work done whatever [TS]

  the reason why there's there's this this idea out there in people's heads that [TS]

  the iPad and everything is is easier for people whatever the reason why is [TS]

  because it can support all that stuff it can't do complicated workflows and and [TS]

  much more attention to speak of an and also the stuff and then what if the [TS]

  process of adding those things to to enable people to cook get more work done [TS]

  on iOS makes it more like traditional PCs and therefore remove that hold [TS]

  manage that it supposedly had by being so much easier and is it possible to add [TS]

  all those things without having side effect and I'm not sure it is it's it's [TS]

  the closeness of you know I was in the gap between the GUI and the Mac is huge [TS]

  and the gap between the Mac and iOS is much smaller but I still think it's [TS]

  significant and in the case of the you know the command line to the GUI and [TS]

  with almost not possible to bring over enough command line stuff to negate the [TS]

  adventure to go in Windows tried by basing it on das and by having you put [TS]

  into das and having so many things to instill involving doesn't have any [TS]

  doubts underpinning for so long and how to get in your face and exposed to you [TS]

  but that wasn't enough to kill them if you want to kill iOS you could do that [TS]

  by bringing over all the bad things from the Mac but I think that you don't need [TS]

  to bring over too many of them too many complexities from the Mac to make I was [TS]

  more capable and I don't think anyone would make the crazy mistake of bringing [TS]

  over the worst things about them act like I don't think anyone would ever say [TS]

  I've got an idea one and we have a bunch of Windows on your iPad screen with tiny [TS]

  little widgets in the corner because if you ever seen anyone do with a bunch of [TS]

  overlapping windows it's just too much why don't you bring over the file system [TS]

  because we know how well people deal with navigating through folders and [TS]

  files when we just have a big house an expose on the iPad again I don't think [TS]

  that would ruin it you're right but I don't think anyone would do that at [TS]

  least I don't think Apple would do it maybe it would do it if they are to have [TS]

  enough about entering its [TS]

  it is possible to run it because it is close enough to close enough maybe it's [TS]

  not seem like a big you know our break for example bring over a mouse pointer [TS]

  and make use the mouse pointer for everything like that all the sudden [TS]

  things aren't responses such controls what are the uses happens expect you to [TS]

  have a mouse pointer to work with the little window which said whatever [TS]

  I I don't think that Apple at least would be dumb enough to bring anything [TS]

  that Apple has been very reticent to bring over any of the more powerful [TS]

  things and they bring it over very very slowly and there's just no way they were [TS]

  going over those horrible things in the most adorable thing something about her [TS]

  things people don't want to deal with like sewing printer drivers like a thing [TS]

  from the ancient world but kinda party dress that with AirPrint saying we're [TS]

  not doing the printer driver 3 anymore it's your problem or in a higher power [TS]

  to speak you deal with it which is going to get rid of printer drivers and the [TS]

  filesystem I don't think I was going to bring that back you know dealing with [TS]

  apps the old way I don't think that's coming back anyway as better deal [TS]

  dealing with Windows Apple has to come up with something but I don't think they [TS]

  would bring over plain old windows that would be pretty stupid so it's possible [TS]

  to run it perhaps I'm like it isn't agrees case from the command line but I [TS]

  think it's unlikely that they'll run it and I said last show the other [TS]

  alternative is rather than making I was more capable wanted to make the Mac [TS]

  simpler and I think it's easier to make I was more capable than it is to make [TS]

  the Mac simpler especially since the complex's the Mac have to live on to get [TS]

  some people will always need them the same way some people always knew the [TS]

  command line well but they are making the mac simpler mean isn't that what [TS]

  things like gatekeeper and launch center pad thing whatever you call it is not [TS]

  what that's all about but you can't get rid of the overlapping windows [TS]

  you can run on apple screen but just adds complexity as we talked about last [TS]

  time now you have yet another mode you have to worry about if you've seen [TS]

  people deal with the Windows screen doesn't help them because they're [TS]

  trapped in some oh they don't understand it's it's very difficult to take away [TS]

  complexity from the Mac to even get it to the close to the level of [TS]

  friendliness that I always has raised you add capabilities to iOS it can [TS]

  remain friendly to the people who don't want those advanced abilities in the [TS]

  same way that if you don't wanna enabled multitasking gestures that doesn't [TS]

  bother any people if you don't know how to get to the multitasking you can just [TS]

  at home but you like the home screen every time it still works for you and [TS]

  it's simple mode they've added capability without adding complexity and [TS]

  taking a long-term like it gets tied up and there's nothing I think about it [TS]

  gets tied up in like will Apple announces iPad with protein [TS]

  the end of its name this year and will be bigger like who knows who cares I [TS]

  guess not what I'm talking about is no I'm not talking about an upcoming [TS]

  product or Apple's plans for the next year too or what Iowa State is going to [TS]

  be thinking long term and it and you're right market the entire thing is based [TS]

  on the premise that I was better for people and it's inevitable that many [TS]

  many more people who currently can't use iOS to or anything like iOS to do their [TS]

  job will have to be served by this better things like that's that's the [TS]

  tide that's coming because if there's a thing out there is better than better [TS]

  for people and people use it all the time and I think most people would agree [TS]

  that using their phone or their iPad is better they'll want to use that to do [TS]

  more stuff and that they can't label you know they'll want more capability out of [TS]

  it [TS]

  another assumption that might be worth questioning is whether whether iOS is [TS]

  simplicity today is overall easier for people because you know as we discussed [TS]

  last episode with the with the storage limits and when people hit their stories [TS]

  limits and it's kind of crappy is to figure out where that's going and and [TS]

  how to recover from that you know I was a simplicity a lot of times will create [TS]

  the question in people's minds of how do I do this or how do I fix this [TS]

  limitation and a lot of times the answer is you can't or it's so complicated that [TS]

  it's not even worth doing like simple things that on a computer might be [TS]

  accomplished by drag-and-drop or by having you know hitting the open [TS]

  dialogue but none in an apt to open a file from somewhere else from some other [TS]

  app stuff like that that people in attaching files to emails stuff that [TS]

  people generally know how to do on computers you know after not that much [TS]

  using a lot of those kinds of things are still even more complicated and iOS than [TS]

  they are on a computer because of its design because of its limitations you [TS]

  think more people be smart successful attaching a file to an email using a Mac [TS]

  then they were doing the same thing [TS]

  definitely no question no I don't think that's the case then I wish you can't do [TS]

  it from the email but I don't know if that's the way to think about it like [TS]

  just because that's the way it works and desktop applications are used to it you [TS]

  know I think people are just as likely to hold your finger on a picture is not [TS]

  great but it could just as likely to figure out the holding down your finger [TS]

  on a picture or hitting the little share icon I mean they're still it's not [TS]

  completely intuitive but there I think it just like they do come to it from [TS]

  that direction and the main problem with attaching an email MCA's drag-and-drop [TS]

  forget the people who matter to people you can drag a little picture onto the [TS]

  just that's i think thats outside the realm of most people's experience they [TS]

  did not adequately little paper clip icon and when they could hold a [TS]

  paperclip icon whatever their mail application is they get an open save [TS]

  dialog box and then you're just talking that we'd like 50 50 whether I want to [TS]

  know what the hell to do with that on this baby hope that they know how to [TS]

  click on the link that takes into the desktop nothing up on the desktop is [TS]

  where all their files are because it's the one place I can use that the running [TS]

  out of space I think it's another thing with like there are limits their [TS]

  hardware limits tiny piece of hardware and when you run to those limits at that [TS]

  point you like that's when the reality of the computer snacks the user in the [TS]

  face and you can't do anything to protect them from me you don't have [TS]

  infinite space on your device may be some super clever cloud thing and in the [TS]

  future could make it appear as if you have infinite space but you know you [TS]

  don't have internet like it's kind of like how multitasking makes it seem like [TS]

  you have internal memory there they're trying to help you out of memory please [TS]

  quit the application seeking launch tomorrow while the combination of [TS]

  virtual memory and you know explaining stuff is an iOS application that makes [TS]

  people not have to worry about whether an application is running or not or at [TS]

  least try to worry less about it when you run out of space if you've seen [TS]

  anyone run out of space in the Mac cristobal the Mac OS 10 behaves very [TS]

  very badly when you're out of disk space extremely badly freidy things happen [TS]

  it's very easy to get into a situation where the OS can create another swap [TS]

  file and it seems like you're in tireless frozen and you get those [TS]

  warning dialog boxes before that the US will warn you are running out of space [TS]

  what do people do about that like best-case scenario of a randomly start [TS]

  trying to drag to the trash that's best case and this library folder that do i [TS]

  like it so they way they made it in visit [TS]

  able I got to really get into it Library folder and start going to their [TS]

  preferences folder like I don't understand what this isn't there on that [TS]

  application support and support that's best case at least iOS protects them [TS]

  from doing that but you run the hardware limits that's that's one of the hardest [TS]

  problems what do I do when all the space for stuff is filled with stuff whether [TS]

  that be memory or flash based on whatever you know to go back a step I [TS]

  almost think that the attachment thing is a example of the iPad I guess I [TS]

  should say I lesson general getting a little more strong as a poor choice of [TS]

  words a little better for power users and that's because your market said well [TS]

  there's no way to attach something from an email you actually can if you get a [TS]

  little context menu up and then maybe a different term for that and I West but [TS]

  the little black pop-up menu if you go like 35 levels deep in that past bold [TS]

  italics underline all that you can actually insert picture video believes [TS]

  that is the terminology used liberally yeah and you can copy and paste but you [TS]

  can't there's actually a like button they're practically do that WoW I don't [TS]

  know exactly and that only came in the last one or two versions of iOS I don't [TS]

  recall exactly what it was [TS]

  people who like Groupon smartphones though it's more natural for them to [TS]

  start from the picture that they want to send to somebody and then ok send this [TS]

  picture to sue instead of sight from the email application computer message to [TS]

  sue and then insert the picture I gets totally a desktop computer users mindset [TS]

  it it absolutely is and as someone who grew up on a desktop computer that is [TS]

  what up until whenever it wasn't that they added this feature every time I [TS]

  wanted to send a picture to someone I'm just so hard wired to start an email [TS]

  sent it to Aaron let's say and then wrap I gotta start from photos and then I [TS]

  gotta leave my email start from photos and lost my email that I've written a [TS]

  must I copy and paste etcetera etcetera and so once I discovered that you can [TS]

  actually kick off the picture chooser picture and video chooser from within an [TS]

  email that actually helped me a lot because I'm so hard wired that's my [TS]

  internal mental workflow is to start the email [TS]

  and then go get the attachment I think the most likely scenario for what I just [TS]

  described the iPad proud not coming to pass is that it turns out that for the [TS]

  people who are currently using Macs and Mac like systems to get their work done [TS]

  iOS the advantages of iOS are not compelling enough to make them leave [TS]

  behind all the things that annoy them like that they would prefer to use [TS]

  iowa's they do prefer sitting on the counter their iPad in like browsing [TS]

  through the web and their off time or whatever but all of the things that [TS]

  annoy them about the Mac and multiple windows and in with multiple [TS]

  applications and dealing with low 50 things you don't deal with an iOS don't [TS]

  annoy them enough to be willing to put up with what is the inevitable [TS]

  transition period when it is not quite capable enough and like there's gonna be [TS]

  the middle period where who's gonna be the first person to try to get their [TS]

  work done and I always do you kind of see it now at the people bravely trying [TS]

  to use an iPad when they should just be using a MacBook Air just for the novelty [TS]

  factor of it but that's a very small scale large-scale you need to get the [TS]

  people who were using their computers like they do for the good people use [TS]

  their computer real work with there are some people have to say I'm actually [TS]

  gonna try this Windows thing this Mac thing even though I'm not even sure how [TS]

  only be able to get my job done because I do everything in physical available [TS]

  and I'll try this new Excel thing and maybe that'll work out I'm not sure so [TS]

  that that transition period could prevent iowa's type interfaces from [TS]

  taking the mantle the personal computer in our lifetime that's not i think is [TS]

  most likely Sarah for not happening you know I can't help but wonder if the [TS]

  three of us are participating in one long troll of the teaching in this is [TS]

  what he is like an outlier if you're like me you're living right about [TS]

  technology and all those people who keep trying to do it like out see what it's [TS]

  like to do my work I do I need a laptop on the new leave the house without a [TS]

  laptop and just take my iPad and see how it goes [TS]

  we're all trying to experiment to varying degrees if you have a laptop and [TS]

  iPad sometimes you might just take the iPad to see how that goes and you learn [TS]

  whether it works or not and why it doesn't or does but I'm thinking of all [TS]

  the people who just spent all day at work in front of a computer and the [TS]

  computer is not running iOS or Android it's running Windows or Office 10 [TS]

  tomorrow at school these days it's new in this week are first sponsor is help [TS]

  spot but help spot dot com slash ATP so if you're still using email clients for [TS]

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  know I have to say that somebody in the chapter 22 speared out that Sool Sool [TS]

  peen and whatever they said max will be armed within the next five years it's [TS]

  logical next and as someone who relies on a Windows me I'm in order to get [TS]

  their job done on a Mac I surely hope not know or I hope that I could switch [TS]

  my career into a different into a different segment because it if unless [TS]

  I'm missing something if mexico arm that's going to make virtualizing x86 [TS]

  really stinky just like they used to be before Max were in town so I'm just came [TS]

  out with their work and their new server platform Minnesota defying the platform [TS]

  for the data center trying to make a common platform for arm style you know [TS]

  personal computers more or less I don't think that you know if you wait long [TS]

  enough in theory if the arm destroys everything comes to pass then the Mac be [TS]

  the last thing the switch to our member that point everything is running arm of [TS]

  the dataset is running armband all your servers are running armband personal [TS]

  computers around the next morning I was a UB virtualizing like Linux on arms and [TS]

  Windows on arm inside your virtual machine on arm and everything would work [TS]

  out but yeah you don't wanna be the first one to go there and have everybody [TS]

  else on x86 and then you lose you lose your ability to do that virtualization I [TS]

  mean I'm like I think what I realize why versions of Windows cause I have to her [TS]

  stupid work things cause I still use windows and that is that it actually [TS]

  legitimate concern about the future of computing apple doesn't want that [TS]

  business the business being selling your company like their mail server and stuff [TS]

  Google kind of wants it they want them to use like Google Apps but it's such a [TS]

  difference between having your own software then doing everything through [TS]

  the cloud especially Google's glad I'm not even sure that's a good fit so if [TS]

  cool is it a good fit for that business Apple doesn't want that business who [TS]

  gets their business and if the answer is Microsoft keep it forever then maybe [TS]

  will forever be stuck running Windows nvm so we can use [TS]

  works email thing because I don't know yet but that would be so much slower I [TS]

  got on that I remember even as a non Mac person I remember many many many years [TS]

  ago that you could get some sort of card that was basically a PC on an expansion [TS]

  card and you could virtualized within last 7 89 on even know by using this PC [TS]

  on an expansion card you would know more about this do you think about 46 on a [TS]

  card to use them for the Mac else even see could run like Windows software on [TS]

  your education computers inside your school I know the cards are talking [TS]

  about the better now if you like virtual PC which was you would emulate x86 on [TS]

  the power PC and it would barely sort of but it was super slow and that's that's [TS]

  why my lovely Mac Pro is a dream machine runs everything natively [TS]

  UNIX Mac and Windows one of the reasons why the Intel switch was so easy for Mac [TS]

  owners for the most part is because switching to Intel came with a massive [TS]

  performance boost also and so and so when when combined with be awesome [TS]

  emulation by Rosetta it was it was almost penalty-free to emulate stuff on [TS]

  Intel or PowerPC if we went to arm though I don't we wouldn't have that [TS]

  kind of headroom in all likelihood we would probably be taking a step down in [TS]

  CPU performance at that point and so it would be really inconvenient to have an [TS]

  architect change that did not come with a giant performance boost also where [TS]

  you'd you'd have to emulate this stuff to some degree if you wanted to run it [TS]

  and it would it would not be pretty [TS]

  if you wanted a big boost like the reason Apple got the degreaser going as [TS]

  a six two things one their past CPU vendor stopped making them good CPUs so [TS]

  I stuck with the GeForce in the in the power box because IBM wouldn't make [TS]

  anything better to go in there and and even on the g5 IBM's you know what Steve [TS]

  said there were any of the three guards in the year whatever whether IBM said [TS]

  that or not they sure as hell didn't and we were stuck with the g5 for way too [TS]

  long and it was an improvement so you have to have the superior on stagnate [TS]

  and doesn't seem like that's going to happen if we stand x86 like that it will [TS]

  there be a pure win x86 stagnates doesn't seem like that's anywhere near [TS]

  future [TS]

  second thing is not only that the CPU apples on stagnate the CPU they moved to [TS]

  you got out of a Rutgers the CPU they're gonna move to was like in the network [TS]

  architecture of his craft and apple has sold on x86 by i buy intel showing them [TS]

  look here's the core architecture and trust us is gonna be awesome and lo and [TS]

  behold the core architecture was awesome so that's a combination of two factors [TS]

  are almost certainly is not going to exist again where the CPU Apple is using [TS]

  stagnates and gets crappy and the CBO they're gonna jump to make the huge leap [TS]

  over where it was because it's not like Apple switched from you know the awesome [TS]

  newly introduced you know PowerPC g5 jus the Pentium 4 like that would not have [TS]

  given them and giant boosting performance the chief I was reasonably [TS]

  competitive with contemporaries but when they did make the switch that you know [TS]

  you're right they were able to hide the Rosetta things under the carpet of this [TS]

  this two-sided advantage to make it so that they could do a Power PC software [TS]

  included a reasonable speed let me ask you both and I have a feeling it this is [TS]

  a future her poor audience for this question but would you trade [TS]

  somewhat significant in performance especially when virtual assets assume [TS]

  that non virtualized performance is roughly on par with virtualized [TS]

  performance crummy would you trade that in favor of dramatically improved [TS]

  battery life and I'm making this up at you know arm tends to be a little bit [TS]

  more power struggles let's say that phantom MacBook Air that runs on ARM has [TS]

  twice the battery life of whatever the modern Intel MacBook Airs battery life [TS]

  is so thirty hours instead of 15 10 seriously I mean let's just suppose as a [TS]

  fun thought experiment would you trade would you make that trade even if [TS]

  Windows virtualization or any any ball anything you know x86 virtualization is [TS]

  crummy [TS]

  let's start with you john I don't think that that's a that's a hypothetical [TS]

  scenario that will never come to pass because I don't believe that armed [TS]

  the performance of intel and offer double the power efficiency and that's [TS]

  fair and even even if harmless fad by and I don't think you do that it's not [TS]

  as if intel has a easy doubling of you know it's like a g6 is worth killing [TS]

  your performance you get twice the performance of the overhead of x86 [TS]

  crummy as it is is not you know 50% reduction so I don't think that would [TS]

  ever happen and i also think that Intel's already good enough that like [TS]

  once you get your battery life into the long enough to last the entire waking [TS]

  time of human 15 hour battery life on a MacBook Air granted then I read that yet [TS]

  it's going to take it when they go right now but I think intel is already in the [TS]

  ballpark so I don't think they can that will ever be offered and if they don't [TS]

  offer it I personally wouldn't take it because I would like a kiss would be [TS]

  battery life is already all day long enough and it's only going to get better [TS]

  by small increments I give me the speed please you know what I'm like speed so I [TS]

  would not personally take that and i also dont think they could ever offer [TS]

  that that's what about you marker [TS]

  larious they are asking us to two people who not only want speed but hardly ever [TS]

  use laptops I that's exactly why I knew this audience was not the right audience [TS]

  but nevertheless indulge me [TS]

  alright so I mean for me i think you know i i wouldn't be that excited about [TS]

  such a product because I'm not currently having battery life laptop issues that [TS]

  the modern laptops especially if I'm gonna go buy a new one [TS]

  the new ones have been better battery life and the ones I've had before and so [TS]

  even the new Intel ones are really just awesome and they're gonna they're just [TS]

  only going to get better as we go through more process shrinks them or [TS]

  more like circuit shut off technology steps and stuff like that it's only [TS]

  gonna get better so I it's not really a problem that I have that you know [TS]

  already I have an awesome laptop that's two years old or new year and a half old [TS]

  that is awesome and has great battery life and it's it's never a problem for [TS]

  me I never have not enough battery left my laptop for what I need one you know [TS]

  when I am using it full time so that's not really early for me I think you can [TS]

  you can maybe judge the market for such a thing by how many people are walking [TS]

  around all day with with dead MacBook Air batteries basically the MacBook Air [TS]

  11 inch where there's not nearly enough room in there for a big battery so I [TS]

  think if you're walking around with an 11 inch MacBook Air and your batteries [TS]

  over 25 percent and dying you gotta stop using your computer to plug in for a [TS]

  while then you're the market for the sort of things you actually really need [TS]

  that you're pushing the boundaries but as as the boundary keeps getting [TS]

  expanded to have you know six hour battery life and are better left 12 hour [TS]

  battery life we keep pushing us forward but pretty impressive margin over the [TS]

  last few years so I think the need for making a dramatic battery from proven [TS]

  and laptop is is shrinking certainly you can you can imagine some uses for it but [TS]

  I don't think it's a mass-market use anymore if the 11 inch air I think if [TS]

  you had Broadwell and low-temperature polysilicon or whatever that is the more [TS]

  energy-efficient LCD Broadwell plus the better LCD would give you acceptable [TS]

  battery life YouTube you'd be up to the point where I don't think many will be [TS]

  walking around with a dead battery in their care anymore and that's like that [TS]

  like next generation you know a year or two from now it's not like way over the [TS]

  horizon so the window for when armed would make any sort of sensor battery [TS]

  purposes has to be closing but there was a CKC your laptop guy you make the trade [TS]

  you just offered it depends on whether or not I'm still using Windows almost [TS]

  exclusively from my job [TS]

  and if not I probably would assuming that the performance penalty was not [TS]

  egregious which is funny because to be honest I accepting going to and from [TS]

  work I for the most part treat my laptops like that stops well my personal [TS]

  MacBook Pro which is unusable because as a platter hard drive is effectively a [TS]

  desktop my work MacBook Pro like I said other than moving it to in from home I [TS]

  generally speaking just treated as a desktop and so it's kind of hypocritical [TS]

  of me to say that yes i'd love tremendously more battery life but also [TS]

  considered that this is a a prereq 2011 MacBook Pro so I only get three maybe [TS]

  four hours tops of battery life as it is and it has dual GPUs anytime I have [TS]

  VMware Fusion running that absolutely toast my batteries so I'm coming from [TS]

  place of soreness if if that makes sense but I would make that trade if I didn't [TS]

  need to worry about virtualization and the performance penalty was not [TS]

  absolutely egregious I would love to have a laptop with wherein I didn't need [TS]

  to worry about the battery effort and actually we need to buy a new laptop and [TS]

  you'll have that the current system like the the retinas have insane battery life [TS]

  I know they do and we're issuing those at work now but i wanna three-year cycle [TS]

  i think im on year one and a half who cares you're you're famous you can get [TS]

  when you are Casey list huh [TS]

  somewhat that I've heard that I've heard that our work as an eighteen-month cycle [TS]

  and my Mac on my desk is like five years old [TS]

  exactly can you maybe trade that credit for Casey I'm saving that credit to [TS]

  trade up to a fancy iMac when the time comes but I'm not ready to give it up [TS]

  yet but it's funny because I upgraded my iPad situation from a 3rd gen retina [TS]

  full-size iPad 2 iPad retina iPad Mini and I don't know if I I wouldn't say I'm [TS]

  in but I don't know if it's just my particular iPad Mini but I feel like the [TS]

  battery life is not nearly as good as the retina [TS]

  pad and certainly not as good as my original iPad and I find that to be [TS]

  really frustrating and end this is the world's biggest first-person problem but [TS]

  I don't know I feel like I'm charging my my iPad a lot more these days and that [TS]

  it kind of puts us fear in me it's the same reason I don't put the battery [TS]

  percentage of my phone cuz I know if I see it dropped 2% I'm gonna start [TS]

  stressing about it come to think of it I should turn it off on my iPad but [TS]

  nevertheless I i feel like im getting to the same point with my iPad as I do with [TS]

  my computer where from without an outlet for more than a couple hours I start [TS]

  freaking out and and I bring this up because even what is probably a very [TS]

  small difference in battery life in this new iPad has created an unreasonable [TS]

  amount of stress in my world which probably says a lot of help me as a [TS]

  person but you know having a lot more battery life in my laptop would be [TS]

  really tremendous I think you guys are completely right that perhaps just a [TS]

  brand new laptop today would be enough but the thought of an armed laptop that [TS]

  would run for two days straight [TS]

  that's enticing he was also at the massive game that we had with has well [TS]

  in the last cycle that did not that was not part of it I shrink so what when [TS]

  they when they do a process shrink with Broadwell this coming fall or whenever [TS]

  that supposed to happen to him delayed but probably no late this year abroad [TS]

  will shrink and maybe even better I mean like that my at another hour if you have [TS]

  a 13 14 hour battery do you think that would relieve your stress and this is [TS]

  like you know this is like the BS battery specs that we used to hear back [TS]

  in the day like all the tests back this up and will reduce usage backed up like [TS]

  you know if they if they say 12 hours [TS]

  undervalued probably get ten yeah it's pretty it's pretty good pretty close to [TS]

  what they say you know I do you think like how how far do you think you would [TS]

  need to go for you to have that stress relieved or you always have that stress [TS]

  because you grew up with very scarce battery is like a laptop battery [TS]

  depressed [TS]

  absolutely right and I think to some degree I always I will always have that [TS]

  stress but I think this is gonna take all the wind out of my home sales but I [TS]

  think if I had complete confidence that under whatever you define as regular use [TS]

  whatever I defined as regular use [TS]

  I could go an entire work day like an eight to 10 hour work day without even [TS]

  thinking about whether or not I need to plug in that would be enough to make me [TS]

  happy and end the way it is right now I absolutely cannot do that even without [TS]

  VMware Fusion running and kicking on the discrete CPU I would probably only be [TS]

  able to get half a day [TS]

  ish and so to be able to go a whole entire work day without even blinking an [TS]

  eye and if I leave my power adapter home a while that would be that would be very [TS]

  liberating for Broadwell them because even with the current crop you could [TS]

  make it through most of the work day if you're nice to VMware but like if you [TS]

  include like 12 hours you're not going to make it working hard you'll come [TS]

  close and you have much less stress and if you just plug them in your backyard [TS]

  escorted away from Broadwell to get you into that type of thing where you can [TS]

  not have a charger work not bring a charge from home and still be [TS]

  comfortable you can do your work without worrying about like my hammering on [TS]

  VMware too much have you considered solve his problem spending 80 bucks on a [TS]

  second power adapter and just leaving it at work I do I do I absolutely do I have [TS]

  one power adapter at my desk at home and one at work and the real cure to happen [TS]

  or the real secret to happiness is having an additional one of my laptop [TS]

  bag so I never have to move the network to the one at home but i dont transport [TS]

  the power adapter to and from work but nevertheless I [TS]

  I wish I didn't have to even think about it and to go back just one quick second [TS]

  a lot of people in the chatter seeing what the reason your iPad [TS]

  iPad's battery life sucks cuz you're using it more and that very well could [TS]

  be but I feel like the battery drops the battery percentage drops quicker than I [TS]

  remembered having done and another iPad they should have made them [TS]

  many thicker her they didn't buy some tiny amount of forget how much but it's [TS]

  like imperceptibly thicker but the iPad 3 was perceptively thicker than the iPad [TS]

  2 and so when the many when written in order to get the symbol you know to keep [TS]

  to maintain battery life they probably should have made the many larger than it [TS]

  currently is more battery in and then I think you would have been a little bit [TS]

  happy with it I would also check as you also got to the same around the same [TS]

  time as I was seven and background apps I would check this background that doing [TS]

  something stupid that you're not aware of and also to delete is off I will say [TS]

  that but you could be run background apps I don't think after my head I don't [TS]

  think there are any that are on there that would be running other than you [TS]

  know I was just picking on general what I mean is that it's not like pot [TS]

  Wrangler sitting here downloading podcasts constantly or anything like [TS]

  that but nevertheless you very well could be right that that went to a place [TS]

  I did not expect that's okay it was accidental [TS]

  this episode is brought to you by our friends at Squarespace the online [TS]

  platform makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website or [TS]

  online portfolio for a free trial and 10% off the square space.com use offer [TS]

  code Marco because I'm the best ATP host now all that's good you'll get your code [TS]

  month don't worry he's going to be patient as I was first automatically not [TS]

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  includes a FREE domain name of center for a whole year and really they have [TS]

  really been far even have I we talked a few months ago about their commerce [TS]

  platform you can see you can sell [TS]

  physical or digital goods on a script website they take care of everything for [TS]

  you all the shopping cart stuff and inventory tracking and coupon codes you [TS]

  want to offer all that stuff they support of an amazingly robust set of [TS]

  features with this Christmas commerce is included in many of the accounts and [TS]

  everything ever need to do is wear space it's easy it's fast it's responsive it [TS]

  works on mobiles Mobile layout as well as desktops in your site looks the same [TS]

  on people's phones and on browser as it follows your theme really really great [TS]

  defense led to Squarespace once again go to Squarespace dot com and use offer [TS]

  code Marco to get 10% off your first purchase and you get a free trial no [TS]

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  start building your site see if you like it I bet you will and don't forget new [TS]

  signups use coupon code Marco thanks a lot to Squarespace for sponsoring the [TS]

  show once again so really quick I have to confess that the first time I [TS]

  actually used Squarespace myself personally was a week or two ago when I [TS]

  was fiddling with us [TS]

  side project may never may or may not ever come to be and it really is that [TS]

  darn good it really truly is and we've been using it and by we I mean Marco has [TS]

  been using it since neutral but it is so easy to do everything and I won't extend [TS]

  the same period for another 20 minutes even though I could extolling all the [TS]

  great things about Squarespace but even if you know what you're doing if you [TS]

  don't want to scare spaces the right answer if you don't know what you're [TS]

  doing is right answer so thanks to them I was asking a minute ago did you guys [TS]

  get me anything gold today [TS]

  alright I ask because this is our 50th episode is not know it which which [TS]

  anniversary gift counter is golden 53 competing gift counters for that sort of [TS]

  thing and i'm looking at home parks and it says gold is the fiftieth anniversary [TS]

  I can get you some Goldschlager [TS]

  again I would be happy with that actually have a gold sure no I don t [TS]

  shirt but it is believed that was my gift for you put up for sale by thanks [TS]

  John see your gift was the opportunity to buy a special show you would think [TS]

  it's a gift of the number of people email me and said you should still [TS]

  available [TS]

  answer is no doubt hypocritically wrote a post about the 30th anniversary the [TS]

  Mac yeah I should have put that in my account I knew was coming up like three [TS]

  or four days at a time like I should write something about that and I tried [TS]

  to write something about it when i when I started writing it into being exactly [TS]

  the same thing is what I wrote when Steve Jobs died because I guess 2222 [TS]

  things are linked in in my life [TS]

  Steve Jobs in the Mac much more so than i think most people who came to Apple [TS]

  stuff later so you had to put the shots not that exciting the reason I put it in [TS]

  there was because it was doing a podcast but they were collecting short like five [TS]

  minute remembrances from people who use the neck but it wasn't like a live [TS]

  podcast with the people they want us to pre-record stuff and I'm terrible [TS]

  recording things and that's all I had to bail I couldn't do but I did think of [TS]

  something I want to say about the original that can after hearing Marco [TS]

  caresses Mac new business on the talk show I figured that was the most epic [TS]

  troll to you know now there's lots of people that lots of people will care [TS]

  actually friend of the show was not happy [TS]

  yeah and he's like your age maybe he doesn't know how old he really is very [TS]

  difficult health comedians [TS]

  it's the beard he hiding so here's my here's my brief little remembers thing I [TS]

  was gonna do from a car but didn't know about the original Mac I think it will [TS]

  be good for young people into thinking I was going to say that I remembered about [TS]

  the Mack III original Mac in 1884 was what it was like to walk up to the [TS]

  computer and turn it on which sounds weird but they could have some [TS]

  foundation or not we'll find out so the power button on the Mac was on the back [TS]

  and use your left hand to reach the back of the computer inflicted it was a a [TS]

  rocker switch that tilted up and down and the Mac itself is very upright and [TS]

  people must know what kind of like a vertical rectangle in front of you with [TS]

  a little square screen near the top seed to reach around the back left side and [TS]

  flip the switch and it was a big mechanical flick a switch like you would [TS]

  see like a seventies mixing board something this is not some tiny little [TS]

  button you know a circle with the little power symbol on the depresses three [TS]

  millimeters in this was a big switch that made a noise you flip that switch [TS]

  the CRD c'mon you think made a beeping noise in the startup beep pretty loud [TS]

  not like cool court music but a beeping noise and the reason this motion of [TS]

  walking up to this vertical computer reaching around behind flicking the [TS]

  switch and sitting down the chair at the same time [TS]

  sticks in my mind is because you did it so often you didn't put the computer to [TS]

  sleep there was no sleep for the computer you didn't leave it on all the [TS]

  time because that would be crazy if you like leaving your TV on all the time [TS]

  line all the time when you want to use the computer you walked up to you turn [TS]

  it on and used it and boot up and take forever to boot up off the floppy disk [TS]

  and you know you do whatever you can do with the computer and the second reason [TS]

  that powers the power switch things on my mind was because when you're done [TS]

  using the computer you reach certain the back of it and you turn the power switch [TS]

  off right in the middle of what you know there's no there was no shutdown command [TS]

  at the bottom of what was then the special mania no shutdown nothing there [TS]

  when you were done using a computer you turn it off and we'd like to think that [TS]

  the computers are using today are just like fancy versions of the Mac that was [TS]

  back then I go to do it in the menu bar something users in the same [TS]

  you know file added you know the special menus gone but like the Apple menu is in [TS]

  the corner of the head windows with wages and resizing that's crossing the [TS]

  same thing right but the incredible distance between that and now is [TS]

  represented by like how he treated a computer be treated like you treat the [TS]

  television set when you want to use you turn on when you want to use a you turn [TS]

  it off there was no software interconnect preventing you from telling [TS]

  you when it was safe to turn it off or preventing you from turning and [TS]

  oftentimes you back in time you are now holding the power button for 10 seconds [TS]

  like it gets hard frozen or whatever but clearly that power button is not a [TS]

  mechanical interconnected you know the computer had no control over you flip [TS]

  that switch electricity stops flowing to the computer that was it and when you [TS]

  turned on electricity start and so that is my one of my lasting memories of the [TS]

  computer that I think most people who are not around back then using Peters [TS]

  can't relate to become a bit like I turn on my comp Commodore 64 that way that's [TS]

  how you might argue that I use many innocent people I think like to think [TS]

  that using their current PlayStation stuff not knowing those buttons are [TS]

  software buttons to just tell them to shut down because you can't turn off a [TS]

  real game console like that without consequences most of the time but back [TS]

  then it was just it was a good computer that looks like what we have today but [TS]

  it behave like a toaster flip the switch on you flip the switch off that I did [TS]

  not know that that seems really wild to me oh and also there were no lights no [TS]

  indicator lights telling you drive activity on this PC is used it for a [TS]

  long time pieces were still like that you like how do I know when I can push [TS]

  the eject button to get the discount I'll wait for the laptop is done but no [TS]

  one will blink blink like I was crazy making as well no light on the front of [TS]

  the Mac so how did you know like what if you were what if it was in the middle of [TS]

  writing data to a floppy disk turned off while you probably just hoster so that [TS]

  was the case but like there was no light I guess because they wouldn't have some [TS]

  stupid things like there was no eject button because they wanted the computer [TS]

  to control that you still had to unmounted Escanaba drag it to the trash [TS]

  reading injector whatever and it would safely ejecting the disc but when you [TS]

  were done using the computer [TS]

  presumably you're not in the middle of saving and you know don't have any [TS]

  outstanding stuff you just reach beyond hit the switch that was the best thing [TS]

  about the original Mac [TS]

  is that wonderful an intuitive design right from the start of 0 to eject a [TS]

  disc you do the same thing you do when you want to delete data here is the best [TS]

  thing about that person that was a shortcut like the way you do is you at [TS]

  the same way you would do anything you selected and then select an item from [TS]

  the menu is like that you'd select the now and then select the verb for the [TS]

  menu so there was an injector thing you could get a discount but the best was so [TS]

  there was only one floppy drive and you couldn't get much done with 1 408 floppy [TS]

  you could inject the system disk that you booted from and they would remain on [TS]

  the desktop is a great out floppy disk icon and then you would put in say your [TS]

  MAC Paint disc application on a separatists put that in the back pain [TS]

  would appear on your desktop as little as I can but not great out and you could [TS]

  you know launch back pain it's an honor to ask you about this back and forth [TS]

  eventually get to the point where the system disk is back in you've got a [TS]

  great icon of the neck pain is gone there and make painful but this is in [TS]

  your hand right then you would drag the ghostly image of the neck pain floppy [TS]

  disk to the trash and nothing would inject discount the disc with just the [TS]

  ghost disk would disappear with a very strange metaphor for what am i throwing [TS]

  out here I'm not ejecting the disc is in my hand up the full image in the image [TS]

  does disappeared that i erase everything on the disc but how could I ever reason [TS]

  everything just gets in my hand but nothing you directed so I was injecting [TS]

  very very confusing of course I made totally intuitive sense to you know and [TS]

  eight-year-old nine year old me because like a thing you learned of course [TS]

  that's the way it works [TS]

  ghost images work for discuss yeah kids dont question but it was very strange [TS]

  and the terrible illness of of the the disc and new virtual disk and goes to [TS]

  disk image kind of metaphor continues to this day when you still have max offer [TS]

  being distributed in the MG's [TS]

  those look great out but yeah you like where's the desk is it was like what i'm [TS]

  saying is the image of disk disk images entirely different thing that's what [TS]

  you're talking about this whole thing with Mike [TS]

  complicating the disc metaphor yeah it's late that's that's it was one of the [TS]

  weirdest things but imagine the thank God they've mostly dodged it now at the [TS]

  App Store by pushing people to do that as the as the installation method but [TS]

  for decades [TS]

  years at least 10 years right so for a decade [TS]

  like the way to install software on a Mac beautiful I tell your parents are [TS]

  you down on this disc image amounts it's a virtual does it on a real kiss you to [TS]

  look for the discs are in the computer and find this fake disc is downloaded [TS]

  don't running from there though you get a movement to your real disk and eject [TS]

  the fake does nothing will actually just my computer and then you go to delete [TS]

  this file represents us take this win this game it is existed before I stand [TS]

  before us 10 the way most software is distributed putting stuff adore you [TS]

  expose yourself as a resource for a short period of time or any other [TS]

  compressed file format and what you would get when you decompress that is if [TS]

  you're lucky you get an application if you're unlucky you get installer there [TS]

  was a series of bad installers doing their installer thing but yeah probably [TS]

  disk images is not so much that the controversial disk image but the entire [TS]

  concept of mounting on demand and discs with their virtual disks real disunited [TS]

  mounting and unmounting is beyond the can of regular people well you see that [TS]

  but it's actually beyond a lot of people so this past Friday I was at a work [TS]

  meeting and it was all of the developers at my office which is only in 10 to 15 [TS]

  of us I'd say and developer that that doesn't typically use a Mac ended up [TS]

  using my bosses Mac in order to do a quick power point presentation and that [TS]

  also involved using Safari or Chrome web browser of choice was in order to show a [TS]

  few things that he had worked on Jan firstly he had a really hard time [TS]

  figuring out how to scroll because there was no scroll bar which in and of itself [TS]

  I thought was kinda funny but made sense I mean I can't fault him for that [TS]

  secondly he fell under the same trap that Aaron falls under any time she [TS]

  tries to use my man [TS]

  which is it for most power users after assume that they have hot corners and [TS]

  they have gestures set up and if you're not familiar news to that it's very [TS]

  off-putting because you do you feel like you haven't touched anything and then [TS]

  suddenly random crap happens it makes no sense anyways the reason I bring this up [TS]

  is because he had had his presentation on a USB key and when he was all done [TS]

  what did he do you wanna take a guess john yang Tao like they do in the movies [TS]

  just like they do with windows and just like they do in the movies and so he [TS]

  just yank that bad boy out of course instantly my bosses macros whoa whoa [TS]

  whoa whoa didn't you do not amount that bad why I'm even know what's going on [TS]

  with that thing and it was it was interesting to me because jokes aside [TS]

  here someone who writes code for a living and he knows what he's doing but [TS]

  because he's not familiar with OS 10 didn't even cross his mind to unmount [TS]

  the the USB key why would you think the thing I like you on Windows right and [TS]

  and so it was just interesting to me even on Windows like you might dance [TS]

  which is why so many USB keys have little lights on them because you can [TS]

  you get on a Windows but if you hang it out in the middle when the little light [TS]

  is blinking your USB keys now has garbage on it so congratulations which [TS]

  by the way when I first got my Mac my first Mac and I think was 2010 one of [TS]

  the things that I found extremely disconcerting was there were no hard [TS]

  drive lights or anything like that and to this day I still have ISTAT menu is [TS]

  running constantly I don't have a chilling hard drive activity but I do [TS]

  have it showing throughput through my network card and CPU load because I just [TS]

  I can I don't know why but I feel that you're one of those people who would [TS]

  have bought in the back of a day there was a program for the Mac called disc [TS]

  light that we put a little blinking black and white thing in your little [TS]

  black-and-white menu bar to make it's not actually about disk usage but it [TS]

  bothers me if something is happening slowly which to be fair on my work [TS]

  MacBook Pro with its SSD is not terribly often [TS]

  but if something's happening slowly or if my jet plane I mean my fans are [TS]

  spinning I wanna know why in so I run ISTAT menus which is absolutely the best [TS]

  30 or so dollars are spent a long time I look at my little menu widget whatever [TS]

  that thing is called and I see my CPU usage right there and if I click on it I [TS]

  can see the top 50 most expensive processes and and I don't know it just [TS]

  freaks me out not having that there and I keep telling myself to get rid of it [TS]

  like for example I've gotten Renault don't well and I've got rid of my memory [TS]

  meter but I still have CPU and I still have internet through you should get rid [TS]

  of it because it's kind of the quantum uncertainty principle of computer [TS]

  performance that by observing it you are necessarily [TS]

  behavior and I always wonder how much and I'll three and by observing I don't [TS]

  leave Activity Monitor open-air only top running in a terminal window and run the [TS]

  ISTAT menu things unless I'm curious if I'm curious about something it's like [TS]

  turning on all the instruments are running in a running instruments in [TS]

  Xcode sometimes you want to fire up to see the people who run it all day every [TS]

  day [TS]

  ok well tell you what I suppose you're buying a new Mac Pro what CPU do you get [TS]

  a laptop so careful desktops laptops do you do you get a 13 inch with only a [TS]

  dual core do you go fifteen-inch with a quad-core laptop already getting out [TS]

  that I would want a more powerful computer no I'm sick so I've been [TS]

  running ISTAT menu is also forever I ran there were some other thing that did the [TS]

  same thing before that it was worse than the news and I don't ask me for five [TS]

  years ago by now and I've been running for a while and just like Casey I used [TS]

  to have the the hard drive indicator on there I was just as easily removed [TS]

  because it was pointless at that point but I I still have the CPU in the [TS]

  network ones are the network once first of all very useful if you want to see [TS]

  like my currently uploading tons of stuff on podcasting that's bad and you [TS]

  can go check our Dropbox check back please and in the CPU meter is great [TS]

  because it gives you an idea of how much CPU power you're actually using with the [TS]

  work you do [TS]

  and where you're heading bottlenecks and what kind of bottlenecks you're heading [TS]

  so that you can make intelligent decisions about what [TS]

  upgrade and then what to buy off your next computer I still think that's [TS]

  activity you could do and you're curious about that when your computer is going [TS]

  slow [TS]

  take a look at why it's slow when you're interested in and whether this [TS]

  application takes advantage of how many cars fire it up but it don't think you [TS]

  need to run all day is now looking at it all day it's mostly just in the corner [TS]

  animating distracting your idea not looking at it to gain information from a [TS]

  during that time I glanced at a lot that's another reason to get rid of it [TS]

  it's like looking at it like looking at the time on the clock and look up just [TS]

  take the clock way considering what you doing and i'm looking at the clock I [TS]

  think basically whenever whenever I'm being made to wait for something at all [TS]

  my computer usually I will glance that to see like Mr Nice Guy CPU before I got [TS]

  a disc that it helps a lot to know what what your performance needs are [TS]

  generally speaking so I I know now how much of my stuff is going to benefit [TS]

  from having more course and how much of it isn't and how much of a benefit to [TS]

  having like one super fast core rather than you know more cores that are slower [TS]

  the guy I have a good idea of what I need because this for years and because [TS]

  it's it's always running and so it's kind of glance up there so I I know how [TS]

  much stuff behaves in and what needs actually are whereas if you don't do [TS]

  this kind of thing you're kind of buying blind or you need your computer slowly [TS]

  with its ok I guess I'll add some RAM or something but you don't really know like [TS]

  is slow because of XY or Z and you're kind of guessing I don't know how many [TS]

  conclusions you get from just looking at that was it like my computer is slow I [TS]

  diving and i got right either go to the command line usage FSU's agency for me [TS]

  and my not as fun but I know I just know oh there's a lot of i/o going on how [TS]

  many cops are there and activity monitor what is the data throughput I wanna know [TS]

  who is using the houses and what are they doing with it what files of them [TS]

  out of ice that's why I want like the usage but the white output for the [TS]

  filesystem type to get that information you not get that from my statement I [TS]

  think you do actually [TS]

  the main reason both your ice time he was it's probably the only reason you [TS]

  should run ISTAT menu is because you like blinking lights and pretty things [TS]

  and that's that's a reasonably legitimate reason to like a lot of [TS]

  people running for example transparent terminal windows which make things in [TS]

  their terminal window is harder to read but I liked it cause it looks cool see I [TS]

  disagree I really do think that I i everything Marquez said I was shaking my [TS]

  head yes in that if there's any delay on my computer particularly might my asst [TS]

  MacBook Pro I'm looking at that CPU meter to see what's going on and if [TS]

  there's a spike that I don't expect then darn it on a click on that CPU meter to [TS]

  see what the top processes are and if airmail or if CrashPlan is going berserk [TS]

  and then I need to investigate why that is and additionally that's why to go [TS]

  back in the episode that's why I said I would probably trade [TS]

  less powerful Mac for a map for one that has a much better battery battery life [TS]

  when I just turned off [TS]

  actually would Mavericks came out I did crank back the update frequency from [TS]

  like one second that but anyway the reason I'm so willing to make that trade [TS]

  is because I know generally speaking my CPU usage really isn't that much now [TS]

  when I a VMware running ok then it's not too awesome in in that I'm using [TS]

  probably a third of my CPU all the time but accepting when VMware's running most [TS]

  of the crap I do my computer I really don't need a very powerful CPU force [TS]

  that's why I think I would be willing to make that trade and that's why I think [TS]

  marco was onto something with it gives you some kind of passive feedback on [TS]

  where you're bottlenecks are and if you're burning power unnecessarily like [TS]

  if you have a fork or machine and you got some runaway process burning a [TS]

  hundred percent of the time they get stuck on something you might you might [TS]

  not notice that four days because it's it's really affecting you at all and all [TS]

  that time then your battery life is getting worse [TS]

  your sis morning a little bit too warm for the fans are running a little too [TS]

  fast if it's a process that's that's running log files like I had this weird [TS]

  problem LA times I don't know if the hijacking set up with his wife's dream [TS]

  and I just problem recently where iTunes agent some some kind of iTunes Arab [TS]

  airport agent crashes repeatedly in the background and it burns up a CPU for a [TS]

  while and as it's doing this it's it's dumping tons of crap to the console log [TS]

  like hundreds of megabytes of texts to the console and the only way I can [TS]

  really tell you about looking up there and seeing oh there's that courts been [TS]

  running for a while I wonder what it's doing and clicking the icon is chosen [TS]

  ones doing or my terminal to start taking forever to reach the login prompt [TS]

  and then go to the directory and find the back into the does that but like if [TS]

  you don't see if you can't see those kind of indicators like if I didn't like [TS]

  turmoil for a while that would take days and I and i wouldn't notice it I'll be [TS]

  sitting here burning power and running too hot and filling up my dismay of this [TS]

  crap not even noticing but the difference between you and I Mark Owen [TS]

  and john is that we are not one with our machine like he is he can feel the menu [TS]

  meters what it was called many meters if you don't notice that something is is [TS]

  taking an entire course you don't notice that something is dumping a hundred megs [TS]

  do your thing then it's probably actually not a problem I know it's a [TS]

  problem that you shouldn't be doing that but like I I'm mostly content to wait [TS]

  until my machine is not performing the way I think it is investigating why that [TS]

  is [TS]

  vs if something like that happened and like accurate itself or just never [TS]

  noticed it again I'm not using a laptop on plugged in I don't notice the fans [TS]

  going up I don't notice you know maybe I'm using slightly more power or [TS]

  whatever but I think for me if something was made up of hundreds I would notice [TS]

  that and I would go and investigate like that you don't have an SSD it would [TS]

  definitely be here the hard drive going to take things there many things that go [TS]

  off and you don't notice and I'm perfectly content to let them let them [TS]

  be below my notice if the only reason I would notice them is because of this [TS]

  that you know I'm going to StatCounter thing then thats like drawing my [TS]

  attention unnecessarily right like intellectually yes I would like to know [TS]

  that thing is crashing and see if I can investigated do something about it but [TS]

  practically speaking if I would not notice if it wasn't if it was not for [TS]

  the stat stuff [TS]

  I just as soon not notice it does your laptop that's very true [TS]

  the laptop I would say at least at least just like decrease the upgrade frequency [TS]

  like everyone second is too much I really hope that people make iced out [TS]

  menus get religion about the the Mavericks power saving South because if [TS]

  you're gonna make it happen like that they're probably a lot of things you can [TS]

  do to your app itself to make it more power efficient even if the same update [TS]

  frequency know usually Django its BGAN geo I believe I'm probably [TS]

  mispronouncing it I'm sorry but they're usually pretty pretty on the ball with [TS]

  with getting the latest I don't want to say transit sounds dismissive but yeah [TS]

  but getting those newest features supported yeah they're pretty good [TS]

  citizens on the platforms that's that's a much better way for hey do we have any [TS]

  other new sponsors this week by chance we have one more new sponsor this week [TS]

  it is our friends at cards against humanity 2008 what ya cards against [TS]

  humanity it that awesome game that you and I have played and it's fantastic [TS]

  it's possible according to many but they asked us not to read an ad and to just [TS]

  enjoy the show with that that was it the whole thing is I'm not at all surprised [TS]

  by this but that's ridiculous they anyway they didn't ask us to tell you [TS]

  but its cards against humanity dot com they're just awesome thanks a lot to [TS]

  guard against humanity that that was a big moment I been so excited for them to [TS]

  maybe possibly Monday sponsorship and that's what they decide to do I'm both [TS]

  like a little sad and overwhelmed with happiness it's pretty awesome thanks [TS]

  guys [TS]

  yeah we should play that we should do that on there sometime that'd be yet [TS]

  well we might lose our clean rating if we don't just honoring their the motive [TS]

  there so we should just move on [TS]

  all right let's get back to Lenovo bought some things recently do we care [TS]

  about that [TS]

  do we have time to care about that [TS]

  now we've done our only our show could could spend the first you know almost [TS]

  hour and a half today of all days all the stuff in the news happened today we [TS]

  haven't talked about any of it but even a bit but it's not like is that is it [TS]

  news is there anything that we really care about if you don't care about like [TS]

  the game [TS]

  the metagame company versus company and and who owns what and stuff like that I [TS]

  don't know there's much about the industry that any of these particular [TS]

  deals change other than continuing existing trends that everyone is [TS]

  familiar with yeah I mean I know it seems like Lenovo's basically just [TS]

  becoming IBM's hardware and i know im still does big big hardware big server [TS]

  hardware but you know they took the PC business and i know im very hipster [TS]

  about all this but they killed the ThinkPad and and now they're taking the [TS]

  x86 server business and apparently motorola's well well there there in an [TS]

  economy that's like up-and-coming in a way that the US economy is not like that [TS]

  they're us many many years in the past [TS]

  kind of makes sense that businesses that are not interesting or profitable are [TS]

  profitable enough or have enough growth potential for us could have enough [TS]

  growth potential of them be more profitable for them more interesting for [TS]

  them so they would like to make a phone they would like to sell PCs they'll [TS]

  happily sell PC class server hardware with us at the low end server hardware [TS]

  low-interest means x86 which is the basis like the server hardware that [TS]

  almost everybody buys not a bad business that I mean like I know you're upset [TS]

  about them but they did your beautiful ThinkPad but Lenovo took IBM's PC [TS]

  business and didn't screw it up at the very least you given that they didn't [TS]

  screw it up if they had to have a pretty good record of that of not stirring up [TS]

  the things they've bought too badly i mean i i think even most people who who [TS]

  are ThinkPad fans would agree that that the Lenovo tradition really didn't [TS]

  change much compared to like well as compared to Google buying Motorola [TS]

  described her immoral camp preschooler [TS]

  that's not fair but I want of time someone will require company and just [TS]

  like he won't be able to figure out how to make any money within the products [TS]

  will be worse under you and it will just fizzling people might say that leno was [TS]

  products are worse in some ways and IBM are lost some of the specialist at IBM [TS]

  are is interesting is there are under IBM but it's still an ongoing business [TS]

  and like I was my fear when they bought the museum who'd ever heard of the Nova [TS]

  when they took you know IBM's PC business that like in two years you will [TS]

  be able to buy Lenovo PC sales del not be able to make it go this is allowed in [TS]

  the just won't be successful but you can still buy Lenovo PCs laptops and maybe [TS]

  not as special as I think bed with a butterfly keyboard but you know they're [TS]

  they're reasonable PCs like what would you rather have Lenovo laptop or a Dell [TS]

  Lenovo and HP laptop slim pickings there is an option [TS]

  exactly right [TS]

  fun fact my dad has worked for IBM for probably about 30 years years and I [TS]

  vividly vividly remember seeing the ink pads floating around the house when I [TS]

  was really little because the ThinkPad in case you know is named after these [TS]

  pads of these to hand out to the employees just said the word think on [TS]

  the front that was it and I vividly remember seeing this all over the place [TS]

  and so I grew up on on on ThinkPads and I grew up using a TrackPoint pointing [TS]

  device and if you've never seen the xkcd about this go google and check it out [TS]

  but I still I still miss that i genuinely do in Apple trackpad czar are [TS]

  as good as they get their touchpads whatever they're called they're as good [TS]

  as their as those sorts of things get but I still miss and prefer the [TS]

  TrackPoint [TS]

  I may be on the only one which actually I meant to ask you guys do you guys use [TS]

  the Magic Trackpad now know what you crave my thoughts you but a lot of [TS]

  people I know are starting to start to get really excited about the track that [TS]

  Modi suspicious of somebody when they tell me they prefer a trackpad to [TS]

  amounts I tend to track that I know but I know people who use that I know people [TS]

  who use trackpads at their desk with their desktop computer and I also know [TS]

  people who prefer the track the centered track pad underneath your keyboard [TS]

  laptop to using a mouse on the desktop and those people should be allied with [TS]

  great suspicion it so we don't really care about them buying Motorola and [TS]

  Google unloading my motorola is it's like a terrible failed I don't know what [TS]

  I mean they got the patents are keeping the patents that when they bought [TS]

  Motorola the only interesting thing about that acquisition like that the a [TS]

  story that okay they're just gonna they're by tomorrow the pants like no [TS]

  but I think they might be buying them because they're gonna make their own [TS]

  phones and Motorola makes harm and that turned out not to be the case you know [TS]

  admitted as much in their thing we originally bought them for the bed like [TS]

  I guess there was a chance that have more roles new phones took off Google [TS]

  would say hey wait a second weekend so the OS two other people but they could [TS]

  be with them by making their own hardware sales in huge numbers of the [TS]

  Nexus which cell in smaller numbers I would imagine but turns out knowing what [TS]

  the Motorola Sony there so it's not it's a shame because the most recent Motorola [TS]

  phones are pretty decent like they're they're interesting they're nice looking [TS]

  they work pretty well for Android phones like they're not they're not terrible [TS]

  phones I'm certain Lenovo will continue to make them make not terrible homes out [TS]

  of them and you know who knows they're they're well positioned to do well in [TS]

  China you know so that that business starts picking up there gonna be right [TS]

  there ready to sell cheap Android phones thought tryna do you think it has [TS]

  anything to do with a with a possible Google Samsung future partnership of [TS]

  some sort [TS]

  getting Motorola out of the way you know like Google couldn't buy Samsung the too [TS]

  big but as far as I know but [TS]

  do you think that you know the news came out today also that that Google has [TS]

  apparently pressured Samsung to stop doing they're incredibly different [TS]

  interface on their tablets they were working on and possibly in their phones [TS]

  as well I don't know all the details of it but you know clearly Google is is [TS]

  kind of pressuring Samsung to work more closely with them what if getting motor [TS]

  out of the way it besides being you know financially wise they kept losing even [TS]

  more money on every year they kept it would have that kind of help that to [TS]

  mean I don't know it it sounds like a stretch but you never know I'm honestly [TS]

  all this makes me think that the way to the way they bought Motorola kind of out [TS]

  of the blue and then spent way too much on even back then everyone said it was [TS]

  way too much [TS]

  supposedly it was maybe four patents but not really be worth anything and I think [TS]

  that the patents are worth something not too crazy billion dollar numbers they're [TS]

  giving there but they're definitely worth something they're they're not [TS]

  worth it in that you're gonna be able to sue everybody else for violating your [TS]

  pants but I think having that big stable it's like it so enough uncertainty and [TS]

  you're in the people who are going to come at you with their stupid patents [TS]

  they like well we have a lot of stupid patties to and you're not sure and maybe [TS]

  the few they've used have lost to court but it's a hell of a lot of patents and [TS]

  they're really stupid so I think it serves its purchase as as the mutually [TS]

  assured destruction sort of black bag of crap it was overpaid for that but it's [TS]

  better than not having it at all and as for like this that pressuring like [TS]

  Samsung saying all right you want us to do more stock Android appearing you need [TS]

  to get rid of the Motorola I don't think Samsung was threatened by a number of [TS]

  crap even though they were selling and I don't think Samsung was in a position to [TS]

  bargain like that they shouldn't have been if Google if if they made that [TS]

  threat and Google believed it and and acted based on that threat being an [TS]

  actual thing they should be scared of that was stupid because that's an insane [TS]

  threat like it would be basically [TS]

  will do your default android appearance thing but you have to do this thing for [TS]

  us and Google say why do we have to do that well if you don't we're not gonna [TS]

  make our phones use the stock Google appearance and we don't need no stinkin [TS]

  maps and we don't need no stinkin gmail will do everything ourself and going ok [TS]

  good luck with that I don't think Samsung is in a position I mean how [TS]

  Apple was barely in a position to not use Google Maps I'm not sure Samsung is [TS]

  in a position to do away with with all the things that Google gives them their [TS]

  Android vendor for crying out loud you know it's hard they could do like the [TS]

  Kindle route where you like Amazon like we're not really need anything from you [TS]

  thanks I don't think that's a viable strategy it's possible that Samsung is [TS]

  diluted enough that they think that's a viable strategy for them that they don't [TS]

  need we don't need your Google any second we could go off on her own will [TS]

  be just as successful without you i think thats trade you would work like a [TS]

  year and then Samsung would realize they're not Google so I'm not sure but I [TS]

  I hope Google didn't give any credence to that but I think getting rid of [TS]

  admiral is the right move because if you're not going to use my role as your [TS]

  hardware wing and become like an Apple style like we make the hardware this [TS]

  offer if you're not going to do that what the hell point is there and having [TS]

  a phone maker also do is make your relationships with all the people you [TS]

  license or west to more fraught with banks that it needs to be and yeah you [TS]

  paid twelve billion dollars were but no country losses so who has the real [TS]

  leverage between Samsung Google d still think it's Google and I ask because it [TS]

  seems to me like most of the phones that I see that are that are Android phones [TS]

  and I i wont even wager a guess as to the percentage but it seems like well [TS]

  over half our Samsung phones so is Google getting to the point that they're [TS]

  getting behold into Samsung mean what you just said made me think know but but [TS]

  do you think so because like Samsung is making all the money and [TS]

  Android Market and Google hates and so late but they're not beholden to Google [TS]

  they just want Samsung they just want a Google needs to figure out a way to make [TS]

  money from Android and be the the power of Samsung is making them more difficult [TS]

  they're making the money and so that's that Google in MN to say yes to have a [TS]

  mortgage default Android experience is them trying to say what we want is an [TS]

  undifferentiated see people shipping on our way on commodity hardware they want [TS]

  to go back in time but unlike their Microsoft installing Windows every PC [TS]

  vendor and Samsung doesn't want to be a PC vendor they want to differentiate but [TS]

  it's not as if Samsung like if Google already not making most of the money in [TS]

  the Android ecosystem what is Samsung taking away someone's already reaping [TS]

  all the profits from Android right there are they've already done that to Google [TS]

  so I don't see how Samsung has any leverage over Google say well we'll just [TS]

  change everything to Windows Phone to stop using and we weren't making any [TS]

  money off you use an Android anyway so it's sure their relationship is not [TS]

  they're not too happy campers next to each other and I don't know what you [TS]

  know Google least as a stopgap of like well this whole Android thing was silly [TS]

  we're gonna switch to Chrome OS for everything I think it's it's even you [TS]

  know you can look at the relationship between Apple and Samsung with the [TS]

  lawsuit stuff but just with with the but the hardware manufacturing deals that [TS]

  they have where you know Apple still need some Sun for all four so much of a [TS]

  complete manufacturing especially the more complicated processors and stuff [TS]

  and it doesn't look like they're gonna stop using samsung in the next few years [TS]

  you know maybe there'll be little slowly work towards that by bringing up [TS]

  different fat and stuff but there you know there's gonna keep tabs on as a as [TS]

  a manufacturing partner for a while [TS]

  component partner for a while and so you know a Samsung and Apple you could tell [TS]

  they don't like each other but but they they keep working together because [TS]

  Samsung will take the money cuz it's a lot of money and Apple needs their [TS]

  capacity and and their their chip manufacturing so I think similarly [TS]

  Google and Samsung kind of need each other to you no good bye bye having [TS]

  Android [TS]

  Samsung is is making a killing and Samsung in a personality wise it's [TS]

  pretty hard to get a read on them and in much detail but it does seem like [TS]

  personality wise like they're not like a stubborn principled company if if [TS]

  there's a way to make money doing something they're going to do it they [TS]

  don't really care what do they think they're not going to like hold a grudge [TS]

  against Google and say oh well you're you're kicking ass around so we're gonna [TS]

  stop using Android so they won't they might make their own additional line of [TS]

  phones or something else on it but then stops on Android phones they don't care [TS]

  if they can make money on her phone number of phones and a lot of money and [TS]

  Google needs them because you know you said that there's not really a lot of [TS]

  other people making insurance stuff that that serves Google Amazon song good [TS]

  amount of it but that's not really helping Google very much and you know [TS]

  there's other manufacturers like most original ones I can China and India [TS]

  there's manufacturers that also make a ton of Android stuff but that doesn't [TS]

  have very much does doesn't mean a lot of our services or any of the Services [TS]

  so Samsung is one of the is probably the only company making a good amount of of [TS]

  of Google serviced connected Android things I actually saw them a worldwide [TS]

  and so you know they can or can't afford to to have animosity toward each other [TS]

  that you know I think you're right Google wanted with Android I think they [TS]

  expected there be all these manufacturers with a diverse ecosystem [TS]

  prodding healthy competition and in reality everyone else has died so I was [TS]

  really good at it and and really bad at it and so there is you know it totally [TS]

  is dysfunctional to have like one giant manufacture making making them the [TS]

  majority of your stuff well and not just the number of manufacturers they [TS]

  expected well we're gonna make the software part of the margins on software [TS]

  massive so we're gonna make a huge margins on the software we sell and [TS]

  those poor suckers making the hardware gonna make tiny little harbour martyrs [TS]

  whereas it turns out [TS]

  Samsung's making the bulk of the Prophet and what you would define as the Android [TS]

  Market because they make way more profit on the phones they sell than Google [TS]

  makes on the licensing of the OS to samsung and so that's that's the [TS]

  imbalanced data like all the money in the vast majority the money the Android [TS]

  ecosystem is being made by ha [TS]

  manufacturer and ghouls gonna be like but doesn't software have higher marks [TS]

  that's how we're not making money and you know and so I think Google trying to [TS]

  go back to his bread and butter and saying it seems like no matter who's out [TS]

  there even if they were 15 hardware makers the accumulated profit made by [TS]

  the 15 hardware makers that evenly divided the market but still dwarfed the [TS]

  the license fees that we get it doesn't seem like they were going to make money [TS]

  you know because the magic of like subsidized phones in the USA and getting [TS]

  all that money for giving you a subscriber her long period of time and [TS]

  the hardware itself has reasonable margins and they're not making enough [TS]

  money off the Android itself so I think they want to go back to their old style [TS]

  just alright we're gonna make money by people using Google services and that's [TS]

  why they switch to never mind all the profits up let's just make sure that the [TS]

  people who are selling Android phones continue to continue to be a great way [TS]

  to get people into our Google services so we can't run the rule ads and get [TS]

  information about them in Google+ and all the things we do think we're done [TS]

  thanks to our three sponsors this week [TS]

  help spot Squarespace and cards against humanity and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't need me to begin because it was accidental [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  Casey [TS]

  it was accidental and you see a team Marco [TS]

  I seem to recall may be hearing about this summer on the Internet in my [TS]

  defense Parkville some people saying people who preferred to play first [TS]

  person shooters at the trackpad instead of a mouse what why it's it's a reaction [TS]

  out of the people who prefer to play first person shooters for the thumbstick [TS]

  instead of a mouse but the whole thing but I pretty sure I've heard of these [TS]

  ones playing for a certain tract is just like people who grow up the track pads I [TS]

  don't do something wrong with them [TS]

  kids these days with their input methods like it would be fine if they if it was [TS]

  actually better like it was more if you could make if you make a challenge where [TS]

  there was like a series of dots on the screen and they were you know your [TS]

  challenges we're done with dinner and location of the click on it as soon as [TS]

  you click on another dot appears their objective ways to to measure how how [TS]

  efficient you are with your input device and go ahead [TS]

  trackpad people going on against the mouse person same thing with [TS]

  first-person shooters auto aim has been credited her generation of people who [TS]

  think they're better with I'm sticking them in the mouth when in reality the [TS]

  game drawing their fire to the enemy because they have to be somewhere near [TS]

  there were there are swearing in the chat that he or she is much better with [TS]

  the trackpad which means he or she is or using auto aim and not realizing it or [TS]

  not want to admit it but I was playing with it like a PC and Mac game is not at [TS]

  all it doesn't know you better think it's all because using a track that [TS]

  maybe people don't know how to use a mouse I don't know maybe it's like grade [TS]

  inflation liking to you what you wanna just like make everyone feel better like [TS]

  they did better even though they still suck [TS]

  hey you you hit him or call it a hit everyone's a winner here one thing we [TS]

  should talk about it some point is what what will we reflect on in 20 or 30 [TS]

  years as being the clear sore spot in computers today and in before bending [TS]

  desks I was going to say exactly that so let's let's assume that we've already [TS]

  that spinning disks are hurting the past and we can't use that as an answer what [TS]

  would it be [TS]

  because we aren't we all have gigs and gigs and gigs of ram we generally [TS]

  speaking half big enough hard drives and you could make an argument that the SSDs [TS]

  being considerably smaller because they're they're much too expensive [TS]

  otherwise I would allow that as an answer but if not if not those them what [TS]

  what's the what's the bottleneck on writing the screens are you also put [TS]

  that in the past now I would allow that I think that'd be fair I would say I [TS]

  would say having very short laptop battery life because you know that like [TS]

  in talking about it you know if we're talking about like this year that maybe [TS]

  not but even just like three years ago in that era where almost everyone at [TS]

  that point was buying laptops that they were normal person hardly anybody bought [TS]

  desktops even as of five years ago [TS]

  you know so laptop so I took over in the last decade so strongly and but they [TS]

  weren't very good they were so I think having that was being very hot and the [TS]

  shorter battery lives and maybe big and heavy also but that that fit itself [TS]

  towards the end of the decade I think that that might be a member they were [TS]

  talking about moving from desktop nineties two laptops in the two [TS]

  thousands if you already fast burning his passes this season Retina screen [TS]

  sort of thing is kind of fair because if you just start from like the best of [TS]

  modern computers and say that's the status quo going forward like a baby is [TS]

  born and they never see a spinning disco era of their goodness or so I think [TS]

  babies born today will probably doing it for phones that break when you drop drop [TS]

  them if we're lucky could cause I mean that's a tough call because you're not [TS]

  sure if there's going to be material science breakthroughs that lead to that [TS]

  but always now I know you brought you drop your phone on Sunday you like maybe [TS]

  it's gonna break maybe is not made it was good thing but like it's it's weird [TS]

  if if there's a material science breakthrough that allows that not to be [TS]

  something we have to worry about so much it will look ridiculous that we had [TS]

  these things that were so fragile that cost so much money that we carry around [TS]

  a dozen as I called you dropped it and cement that was over it like it's like [TS]

  saying to someone today if you drop your keys on cement when you're going through [TS]

  them to do you know to get into your cart [TS]

  keys to get the car that way is the hallmark of proximity but anyway the [TS]

  idea that if you drop your drop your keys on the ground [TS]

  your keys are still fine right what our phones you dropped on the ground not fun [TS]

  anymore and I feel like it's possible in our lifetime there could be a material [TS]

  science breakthrough that makes that seem ridiculous when the same way that [TS]

  there could be a battery breakthrough and also is worth pointing out to that [TS]

  you know we in the same ways that like it's kind of irrelevant to us what [TS]

  happens with mainframes these days I think our kids are not going to really [TS]

  care what computers were like when you know in today's era they're going to be [TS]

  talking about what mobile phones were like in today's era and and so from that [TS]

  point of view maybe battery life is the thing as bad as we said earlier is is [TS]

  getting pretty pretty solid to the point where most people don't really run into [TS]

  issues that often anymore with with the newest models and it's probably keep [TS]

  going in that direction whereas with phones its use account about this [TS]

  standstill where the industry is still so competitive moving the hardware for [TS]

  making everything more powerful making the screen is bigger and brighter and [TS]

  higher dancing all the stuff so we can about battery stagnation where and some [TS]

  of the worst where you know as everything it's more complicated and [TS]

  more advanced and more powerful and bigger we're still getting like about a [TS]

  day of casual use and less than a day of heavy use and we've kind of been there [TS]

  for a while now hopefully by the time are our kids might give a time he's old [TS]

  enough to care join your kids are already care but that's kind of my kids [TS]

  old enough to care maybe you know maybe having a multiple day about her life on [TS]

  a phone will be the common case phone batteries are tough because you have to [TS]

  transmit that's the killer I think on phones like you can make the thought you [TS]

  could make the phone consumed zero energy for its green and CPU but you [TS]

  have to transmit so that some tower and I guess I guess you know whatever a [TS]

  successor to LTE is able to use even less power but I will I worry that [TS]

  that's the limiting factor that's like you are physical distance and you must [TS]

  you must have quantum entanglement [TS]

  you know [TS]

  convey information without transmitting radio waves but look at how softens [TS]

  overtime overtime cell phone towers gotten more dense so you have to [TS]

  transmit less distance they have been more crowded noisy about two separate [TS]

  issue but they've gotten closer to you most of the time and we've switched to [TS]

  lower power and faster protocols like the old analog phones had to use a ton [TS]

  of power to reach some tower that was thirty miles away cuz there are a whole [TS]

  lot these days we have these nice festival networks that are much much [TS]

  lower power the tournament side and as the network faster it it's like the rest [TS]

  sleeping on CPUs you can like you know keep the radio on for a shorter time [TS]

  finding more data and then be done to go back to sleep [TS]

  yeah like I don't think evidence that you know eventually will become the [TS]

  limiting factor because the other parts can progressive sort of the pace of [TS]

  technology but the radio parts compared only progressive there at the rate of [TS]

  infrastructure you know like how long does it take to build a new towers to [TS]

  convert the networks to do all that they move so much more slowly anything if [TS]

  current trends continue that will become the dominant factor in power use whereas [TS]

  right now it's not the dominant factor down factor now is if you have some [TS]

  apple tree in the background all time it will kill your phone before it gets a [TS]

  chance to waste all sentient cell phone talking to cell phone towers right to [TS]

  get there but I think but I'm are you know our kids are up that especially [TS]

  given the way infrastructure that's the glacial pace than infrastructure changes [TS]

  over in the us- talking to the cell network will be the dominant power [TS]

  source if we're lucky I guess I mean I guess I guess they can continue to do [TS]

  what you had to say was like well they never spend their energy on better [TS]

  battery life there we spend a ton better features and CPU speed and stuff and [TS]

  just maintain parity and battery life and thinking about that with my [TS]

  dumbphone I almost think that multiday battery life is a little bit of a curse [TS]

  as well as a blessing because I forgot to charge my phone visa last like six [TS]

  and a half days on a charge right and if you have to charge your phone every day [TS]

  if you have eighteen or twenty hour battery life you're probably okay but [TS]

  once you get like 50 how about you forget the charger [TS]

  yes that's true actually like that's how I like how I was with candles when I use [TS]

  them more candles is like I would not charge my Kindle ever and most of it [TS]

  wasn't a problem one day of every two months maybe I'd go to read and i [TS]

  couldnt do is dead so I plug it in and then I wouldn't care for two months [TS]

  yeah I mean to that that's extreme case I think that is acceptable to my phone [TS]

  my wife was complaining because my phones not charge him why is it not [TS]

  charged because there's no I don't need to charge it every day or every other [TS]

  day every three days like a series like maybe once a week I need the charges but [TS]

  I need to like remember you know it's not one that we could like every five [TS]

  and a half days or something so you know it's it's it's interesting to me trying [TS]

  to pick out what is what is the obvious downfall of stuff today and the other [TS]

  thing we haven't really mentioned that I wonder is will home broadband still be a [TS]

  thing and I'm not sure because if you think about it you know as i've said [TS]

  numerous times on the show [TS]

  Ltd even in reasonable speeds is quicker than my broadband at home five years ago [TS]

  granted five years is a long time but you know Ltd it burst like ridiculously [TS]

  awesome speeds is almost as quick if not in some rare cases as quick as my fire [TS]

  my beloved files today and granted Marco yup the super baller fires but for us [TS]

  regular humans you know it's it's almost on par and if it wasn't for bandwidth [TS]

  limits then there's an argument that maybe we wouldn't need home internet and [TS]

  I keep thinking back to like AOL and back when back when you would have a [TS]

  limited amount of minutes you actually were talking about this on the talk show [TS]

  when you have a limited amount of minutes and it was like three thousand [TS]

  dollars a minute to be online and then eventually everything became a limited [TS]

  cuz even ISPs had that if memory serves a lot of ISPs took that approach of its [TS]

  time did you only get so much time in months and so on but eventually it was a [TS]

  race to the bottom right way of phrasing it was a race to unlimited and I wonder [TS]

  if [TS]

  these these cell phone companies will eventually Raystorm limited kinda like [TS]

  what's printed supposedly doing and I don't know I mean there are places where [TS]

  that won't work of course we're here in the middle of nowhere but actually there [TS]

  I have some friends at work that you live in the middle of nowhere and the [TS]

  quickest in turn the internet they can get is a verizon mifi or perhaps just [TS]

  make their phone a hotspot because the only other option I have is DSL so [TS]

  sometimes in some certain circumstances being in the middle of nowhere that [TS]

  makes broadband cellular internet the best option because even in the even [TS]

  more distant future because anyone who writes sci-fi book doesn't involve like [TS]

  wires going to people's houses the sci-fi book like the superfast network [TS]

  that connects all the computers on the on the super advanced planet is always [TS]

  wireless right and I think the main thing that will make that happen for us [TS]

  is the inability of us to do infrastructure projects in this country [TS]

  in a reasonable amount of time running wires everybody's house it seems beyond [TS]

  the capabilities of any private company or government or the combination thereof [TS]

  is this something combination of eminent domain for the wires and the people [TS]

  owning the existing things like that so given that incredible screwed up fitness [TS]

  it's right for someone for wireless to get good enough and say we don't need to [TS]

  do that stuff we don't need to dig trenches and run wires and deal with the [TS]

  government stuff we just need to get this deal with the other for spectrum [TS]

  but assuming they can make use of the spectrum is already available that they [TS]

  already have that's definitely ready for it to happen but and and it seems more [TS]

  sci-fi like but I think if there wasn't for our complete inability to run wires [TS]

  to people's houses in a reasonable fashion that the wired with still [TS]

  maintained its hold because as fast as wireless is ever going to get again [TS]

  unless you go with some crazy quantum entanglement you know superb advanced i [TS]

  buy thing if you have the technology to do that [TS]

  think of the technology you have for the wire less and even though you can't [TS]

  think of a use for a hundred times faster than Ltd now a thousand times [TS]

  faster if you had it you would come up with the uses for it like it's not going [TS]

  to be a K television [TS]

  who knows about holograms and her olympic bar future whatever so maybe I [TS]

  think it is inevitable for us because of our inability to run wires but I think [TS]

  if if you know if everything was even keel and you could get the worst [TS]

  people's houses that will continue to be a thing just because it's so much more [TS]

  capable well but Wireless has has a pretty big problem where it has the [TS]

  ceiling at which it slams into limitations of spectrum and space and [TS]

  density where wires like wires can can run in a very very dense area in a very [TS]

  dense arrangement and doesn't really affect them it doesn't really matter [TS]

  that much you know they have some challenges are some of the big you know [TS]

  bottleneck piping points of the backhaul but not you know not major problems and [TS]

  most of the time that can also be salvaged running more wires whereas if [TS]

  you're in like a dense city area and the radio spectrum is just jammed full and [TS]

  and it's still not enough capacity and there's no more spectrum to be had its [TS]

  available for a while or wherever that's a problem with you hit this hard ceiling [TS]

  with wireless well but wireless is a wired system like in cities Wireless is [TS]

  a wired systems all you're getting rid of his dad left in the last mile bike [TS]

  all but in an apartment building at the last two hundred feet you know because [TS]

  your your your cell tower could be connected by a fiber-optic cable to some [TS]

  backbone or whatever it's just that your house isn't connected to the cell tower [TS]

  by a kind of cable you connected to cell towers in specially in cities where [TS]

  you're building would have some you know some kind of cell tower in it but you're [TS]

  building would be wired to the backbone so it's just getting the last mile but [TS]

  what it means is that you don't have to have some wire to your house that you [TS]

  pay for that you're paying for this amorphous service that exists everywhere [TS]

  in the air and the case is getting out likenesses broadband goes away you mean [TS]

  right thing I pay for the goes to my house is instead you just going to pay [TS]

  for access to the air over the entire country and you're not paying for that [TS]

  one white house but the wires are also gonna be there is just a question of how [TS]

  dense can you get the towers like that and that's what I was saying about [TS]

  limitations yeah that's why having a wire going to your house in awhile [TS]

  fiber-optic think it's always gonna win like it's it's better to not have to [TS]

  send signals to the air i'd have much more capacity there's the question is is [TS]

  the difficulty of running those wires to people's houses gonna make it so that [TS]

  wireless just comes in you know disruptive old-fashioned disruption I [TS]

  call you guys are busy over there arguing about cable packages in fiber [TS]

  optic and last mile crap we're just going off this year everybody for free [TS]

  at already paying for an important to say hey it's good enough to be your [TS]

  broadband it everything and we went I think it matters more [TS]

  and rural areas where you already have issues getting getting you know [TS]

  high-speed cable high speed DSL and certainly you know fiber that the [TS]

  question in rural areas where you know where wireless covers them way more [TS]

  easily by areas so you know it's it's gonna be a lot like you know having [TS]

  having having well water from the city pumped you versus having to pump your [TS]

  own water or having you know having natural gas pipeline to your house where [TS]

  they haven't used liquid propane like there is going to be like you know the [TS]

  city hookups the main in fresh look ups are probably always going to be better [TS]

  if you can get them but the advantage is that you don't have to get them in a lot [TS]

  of places and wireless has had as you know started covering rural areas much [TS]

  more slowly than than cities but it's covering them you know more slowly than [TS]

  you can get out to you in Manhattan but a lot faster than you can get FiOS in [TS]

  the rural area [TS]

  yeah although I want to go back to step yo John you had made mention that there [TS]

  will be some new things like for KTV or maybe even holograms that will [TS]

  necessitate a really fat pipe coming into your house but I don't know I mean [TS]

  I remember vividly trying to download an mp3 from some weirdo FTP site that was [TS]

  surely installing a thousand viruses on the Windows PC and I remember doing this [TS]

  over dial up and thinking to myself I can tell even as a teenager at the time [TS]

  I can tell that this is not going to be as painful future and then once it got [TS]

  to the point that I could download an mp3 with some quickness [TS]

  dan I would try to download a video and I could tell you know what this is going [TS]

  to get a lot better in the future and I think that maybe you're right maybe [TS]

  it'll be a hologram or something like that but I was saying that that's that's [TS]

  silly like we're not going to be like you know increasing the high-resolution [TS]

  video that's it that's a silly extrapolation of what we have now what [TS]

  but if you want to take some of that we have now there will get worse in the [TS]

  future they will need more capacity as we talk about it all the time its [TS]

  backups and not from a backup perspective but just like we if you [TS]

  produce all this digital content in your life [TS]

  video you create the pictures you take that's only going to get bigger up two [TS]

  point you know this is the point we're getting your taking for k videos on your [TS]

  cellphone does need to be much better then maybe twice as good whatever but [TS]

  over a lifetime you will build up a lot of that and I still think it's [TS]

  ridiculous to make people accepted that did that stuff can go at any time and [TS]

  you don't really own it into disappears so if there were some way to sort of [TS]

  like again I get back to the transporter add if if there is sort of this series [TS]

  of little devices at home at work and all your friends house and you did it [TS]

  could be pushed among it so that when your house burned down you know you [TS]

  would lose all your data like that's the ultimate extension of the internet but [TS]

  to do that you need massive bandwidth between all these notes that he liked it [TS]

  how is it feasible to move lifetime's worth of information amongst these nodes [TS]

  and real-time like can I move video as fast as I can grab it on my phone of [TS]

  course you can but if you have these gigantic pipes going to and from your [TS]

  house [TS]

  many interesting things are happening out so I think like we don't need 10,000 [TS]

  times the bandwidth we have but if you go to someone ok picture that you have [TS]

  10,000 times the bandwidth can you think of something you knew you can do it that [TS]

  those type of numbers like water by magnitude increases open up things to [TS]

  the realm of possibility that were not even a twinkle in anyone's I but you're [TS]

  like ok boo you have it now what can you do and that's you know downloading video [TS]

  over the Internet to watch movies in high def [TS]

  if you had proposed that to someone in 1962 of they would have probably thought [TS]

  of that there was a while have that kind of been with I can send moving pictures [TS]

  depende lo and behold you can and like how did we get from point A to point B [TS]

  as I like you need to build a network you can send movies and it's not like [TS]

  will we need to send movies you need to build a network they kind of go hand in [TS]

  hand but [TS]

  data backup and moving away your personal data amongst this big cloud [TS]

  that would require massive bandwidth to rethink cities that sammy is the best if [TS]

  we all had segways that would be [TS]

  I got that right now I think that makes the most sense of backups makes the most [TS]

  sense because that's something that you're right I can tell today that [TS]

  that's too slow and it shouldn't be that slow and it probably won't be but we [TS]

  wouldn't call it back ups like that would not be a backup that would be the [TS]

  the up there bebe bebe up that we're backing you know there is no back of [TS]

  course of course all our information is just there and of course it is redundant [TS]

  and separated and travels with us and synchronize between these things whether [TS]

  it's because we buy these little you know some size Transport Act things you [TS]

  spread them around or whether there's some sort of cloud storage solution that [TS]

  somebody does like this [TS]

  lot of data that we already make we are ready to make this water updated too big [TS]

  for us to do anything with you can barely we can barely have one primary [TS]

  location than one like backup to be put it to let alone having it instantly [TS]

  synchronized everywhere just does not enough bandwidth for that we've talked [TS]

  about many times and that's just with current generation video and currency [TS]

  you know revenues will increase but then I think so resolution will create a [TS]

  little bit more and think of people have a lifetime the stuff forces people to [TS]

  start taking high def video in 2007 about people who start taking video [TS]

  identity in 2007 and their eight years old and they do for their entire life [TS]

  how much data they gonna happen the end of it maybe they don't want to keep it [TS]

  all but it seems like you want to keep some of it somehow make sense before we [TS]

  leave the thought of when I get back to the easy one of the spectra cases saying [TS]

  what's going to look weird to our kids the easy one even mentioning is that of [TS]

  course all crap is gonna look humongous and ridiculous like of course it is the [TS]

  same way when you look at like full-height hard drives or not your [TS]

  fault light tower PC case are like even our Mac Pro cheese grater the mention of [TS]

  everything he looked gigantic you carry this around like I have a Newton on my [TS]

  desk now looks ridiculous next to my iPod Touch right of course that's going [TS]

  to happen with everything [TS]

  laptops phones well will it now I'm not so sure [TS]

  laptops and phones have both reached the point [TS]

  and and not even recently they've both reached the point where they're pretty [TS]

  much like as as small as they can be and still have the screen size of a half in [TS]

  the case of laptop still have a keyboard says they have a day there's not a whole [TS]

  lot of room to make them a lot smaller and so keep those keyboards if your [TS]

  iPhone 5 looked as I could like it does but it was the thickness and weight of a [TS]

  credit card [TS]

  your current iPhone 5 look ridiculous compared to it that's true but we're [TS]

  talking about such a small scale at the differences are so much smaller and and [TS]

  some parts of computing and gotten bigger I mean look how small that that [TS]

  original Mac looks you know it turns out things that are good to get bigger we've [TS]

  gotten bigger screen size like even if you just look at the thickness of my 23 [TS]

  and Apple Cinema Display in front of me now compared to the thickness of an iMac [TS]

  which has a whole computer behind it that that is thinner than my monitor it [TS]

  doesn't have to be that big of deal if I compare my current iPod touch to my [TS]

  first generation iPod touch that looks ridiculous and the differences like two [TS]

  millimeters but it just you put it in your hand like how do you ever use iPod [TS]

  Touch like twice the thickness of the you know it's not that big of a [TS]

  difference but that tends to be glaring to people in retrospect how big and [TS]

  thick and heavy things are not think that's a good point but i i think that [TS]

  Marcos also right that in terms of width int height I'm not sure that that most [TS]

  devices are gonna get that much smaller I think you're absolutely right in terms [TS]

  of depth they will get smaller [TS]

  message pad has a small it's similar probably similar screen size to an iPad [TS]

  Mini but thicker and heavier and so that's what stands out it's not so much [TS]

  that like the width and height it's it's different proportions and an iPad Mini [TS]

  but the area is similar but it because it's because it's like a break then you [TS]

  feel like oh well you know this if the old you know it's funny this bit of [TS]

  attention from our tension tension of attention of changes but on this show [TS]

  exactly I got for Christmas the Apple leather case a black one for my iPhone [TS]

  5s and I didn't typically I had a bumper on my for us for a long long time at [TS]

  least half the time I have before us and I liked it but my favorite but I don't [TS]

  trust myself not to have a case at all which I don't really argue is the better [TS]

  way to go [TS]

  and I wanted to try the leather case for the 5s because I felt like it would be a [TS]

  really nice compromise it didn't seem to add that much thickness in it and it [TS]

  seemed to be pretty nice and I've had it since Christmas like I said I actually [TS]

  really really liked it a lot and it's the first real case I've ever had not a [TS]

  bumper anything like that and I really really really like it I got the black [TS]

  one so as it fades [TS]

  if it's faded I can't tell but it doesn't add that much thickness which is [TS]

  what made me think of it I don't feel like it adds that much thickness having [TS]

  come from a for us not that long ago it doesn't add enough thickness to make it [TS]

  feel like it's real in the phone and I really really like my now I'm not saying [TS]

  that case is right for you Marco but John you don't believe in iPhones for [TS]

  yourself but I do really like it I often wonder why it seems that it is it just [TS]

  me and saying this is somebody who doesn't buy a lot of cases is it just me [TS]

  or is there basically no competition for Apple's cases for the iPhone and iPad in [TS]

  in it how how small and thin and light they tend to be and also how high [TS]

  quality get him to feel and look like it seems like every other case i've seen [TS]

  the height there are high quality ones but they're substantially bulkier and [TS]

  end all the ones that are super small dinner like you know silicones that [TS]

  crappy things the aged feel like crap it looks like crap Marco how quickly we [TS]

  forget the iPad one case oh that was a disaster or the current the current like [TS]

  non led their the wrap around the back of the iPad cases those are not going to [TS]

  be there I have one and actually I don't particularly care for the one on the [TS]

  iPad Mini in fact I take it off quite often just using the iPad because the [TS]

  damn magnet that holds it to the back of the iPad is nowhere near strong enough I [TS]

  feel like john you've said this in the past somebody said this in the past but [TS]

  having the case has been minimal though I'm not sure if there is much [TS]

  competition for example for the leather one think a lot of that is because I [TS]

  think people like big [TS]

  like they wanna feel like they're they're spending money on something big [TS]

  like it seems like if you're going to get a case you wanna feel the case and [TS]

  if you buy something and it's barely there then getting any so maybe that's [TS]

  why a third party is there more market that but I mean if you've seen my iPod [TS]

  touch case right and everyone who sees the iPod touch case takes a double take [TS]

  I think doesn't have a case on yet or or is this what the back of the iPod [TS]

  touches like and it's just you know the mill Belkin plastic case but because the [TS]

  appetizers so incredibly thin with the case on it feels like almost like [TS]

  there's no case there and it's very tightly fitting and you know it's not [TS]

  made of some loosey goosey material and stretch around the edges and everything [TS]

  in the buttons you know lineup with all the things that feel nice when you're [TS]

  pressing them in that way like the leather case it made me think of them as [TS]

  always got that red leather case for 5s in the same way we like well you're [TS]

  pushing buttons through the case or whatever it can be done well reasonably [TS]

  well and I think there are case makers who do sort of competing around if only [TS]

  on the iPod Touch in this case but it but there's something out there for the [TS]

  fire ice well but mostly when I see people of cases they are comically huge [TS]

  and people love them that love him although I will say very quickly the [TS]

  Achilles heel of this case is absolutely the lock button the lock button feels [TS]

  considerably more machine than it did when it was tasteless the silent bring [TS]

  someone but yeah the one of the top D sleep wake button whatever it feels a [TS]

  lot Moshiri and and I was told that I think it's true that it would get better [TS]

  over time and it has gotten somewhat better over the last month or so but [TS]

  it's still not as crisp as I would like you mean you mean the power button the [TS]

  sleep-wake [TS]

  the one on the top the one on the top I'm thinking of the one on the field the [TS]

  one on the side they've had a cut out for you stick your finger now and then [TS]

  you switch it to ring that's what I was talking about that one is actually they [TS]

  don't cover up because they couldn't do it but yeah that this question of [TS]

  unhappy right doesn't quite feel like in that case I think my cheap Belkin case [TS]

  for my pledge feels better because it's more of a positive kind of cliquez it's [TS]

  it's a material with less craziness than leather leather itself is gonna give so [TS]

  it's harder for them that's why I think they should have a leather case will [TS]

  likely medal [TS]

  three buttons that would have really nice high quality rather than it would [TS]

  cost $80 probably for ninety the leather case it was a gift [TS]

  wanna say was forty or fifty dollars I think so much that I remember you it was [TS]

  it was expensive enough that I didn't wanna buy it for myself and it would be [TS]

  the perfect gift it's where it's something that you want but you don't [TS]

  really think you want to spend your own money on it and of course you could take [TS]

  this is a terrible thing oh well I don't you buy for me instead but it's like [TS]

  that's a perfect gift because it's something you know you want but it's not [TS]

  something you necessarily wanna buy for yourself a man of something else that's [TS]

  also the best thing would be if your wife has it for you with your shared [TS]

  pool of money creating mental game you're playing with you [TS]