00:00:00 ◼ ► They'll say they funny now that's a really good that's a really good ending sort of sending funny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/0">TS</a>]
00:00:04 ◼ ► and you know it's sort of the beginning of the show. That's true. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4">TS</a>]
00:00:06 ◼ ► Time has no meaning in podcast Marco you are the master of time and space. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6">TS</a>]
00:00:13 ◼ ► Some follow up if you want to talk about Flappy Bird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/13">TS</a>]
00:00:15 ◼ ► and get in an argument again I I would just like to say that I think most of the feedback sided with me that flappy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/15">TS</a>]
00:00:23 ◼ ► bird is actually a good game not a great game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/23">TS</a>]
00:00:26 ◼ ► but it was that it got most of its popularity at least initial popularity boost that got it into the top charts which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/26">TS</a>]
00:00:33 ◼ ► then made social element really take over. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/33">TS</a>]
00:00:35 ◼ ► I got a lot of its popularity simply because of its merits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/35">TS</a>]
00:00:39 ◼ ► and even though it is not it is not what you know it's to me it's like a McDonald's hamburger of games not even without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/39">TS</a>]
00:00:46 ◼ ► Michael when he's number and like it's like you know you shouldn't like it it's terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/46">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► It's complete junk However it's good. That's that's McDonald's Wendy's is good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/53">TS</a>]
00:00:58 ◼ ► McDonald's is not good except breakfast. Breakfast is going well or whatever people eat with all that actually good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/58">TS</a>]
00:01:03 ◼ ► Is there anything there that you have to make the burgers or not but breakfast is good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/63">TS</a>]
00:01:08 ◼ ► I actually found it like a long car trips where I have to like stop at a rest area some were in the middle of nowhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/68">TS</a>]
00:01:14 ◼ ► I would if I have to pick between the major fast food chains [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/74">TS</a>]
00:01:17 ◼ ► and you're really somewhere in the middle of nowhere I would go with McDonald's because they're they've always been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/77">TS</a>]
00:01:24 ◼ ► extremely good about quality control standards and so it's you know you're guaranteed to get the same crap everywhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/84">TS</a>]
00:01:31 ◼ ► Whereas Wendy's I like Wendy's better in an ideal case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/91">TS</a>]
00:01:35 ◼ ► but I've had a lot I like I've had a much wider range of Wendy's quality. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/95">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► Where do we stop on the way back from South Carolina that we started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/99">TS</a>]
00:01:42 ◼ ► when we did that was in a fairly populated area I'm talking about like if you're stopping at the Pennsylvania Turnpike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/102">TS</a>]
00:01:48 ◼ ► or something you know really you're really in the middle of nowhere and you're and you have like the Roy Rogers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/108">TS</a>]
00:01:53 ◼ ► or the mic. Oh God I remember. Or like the T.C.B. Why you know you know this is this is our new. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/113">TS</a>]
00:02:00 ◼ ► This isn't so John what do you think about the Flappy Bird follow up I think the feedback was it's hard to tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/120">TS</a>]
00:02:06 ◼ ► but are especially because of course I only see the replies that I had mentioned me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/126">TS</a>]
00:02:10 ◼ ► or you know like people mentioning just you to say they agree with you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/130">TS</a>]
00:02:14 ◼ ► I wouldn't see those or whatever but I think the majority of the feedback was that they agree with you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/134">TS</a>]
00:02:19 ◼ ► and that just goes to show that the majority of people are often wrong about things like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/139">TS</a>]
00:02:26 ◼ ► As is often the case in this part Guess where I don't do any preparation like we sort of talk about things in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/146">TS</a>]
00:02:32 ◼ ► and then after the podcast I think of like how you know how I could have approached to better explain things better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/152">TS</a>]
00:02:39 ◼ ► or maybe just the next I want to summarize stuff whereas I do have some actual fault that it by the notes about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/159">TS</a>]
00:02:44 ◼ ► but like you I have a vague outline here of kind of what we said the last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/164">TS</a>]
00:02:51 ◼ ► and the heading ever is the two sides of success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/171">TS</a>]
00:02:55 ◼ ► and we barely touched on one of the sides maybe we should talk about it more. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/175">TS</a>]
00:03:02 ◼ ► when you're very successful you get a lot of attacks from people who don't think you should be that successful don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/182">TS</a>]
00:03:09 ◼ ► think you deserve your success or just because you're very popular you get a backlash effect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/189">TS</a>]
00:03:15 ◼ ► We've all experienced this to one degree or another. It's scales. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/195">TS</a>]
00:03:18 ◼ ► Fortunately with your success if you're massively successful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/198">TS</a>]
00:03:20 ◼ ► and everybody knows what you are you're going to have a portion of the larger backlash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/200">TS</a>]
00:03:25 ◼ ► and that would be mentioned at the very beginning the last show maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/205">TS</a>]
00:03:28 ◼ ► and I tried to point out that like I didn't think it was a terrible game because it's not it's not terrible it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/208">TS</a>]
00:03:35 ◼ ► completely incompetent it's not non-functional it's you know it has high praise. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/215">TS</a>]
00:03:40 ◼ ► Right so what I'm saying my people are there and I don't think it's a terrible game no it's not a terrible game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/220">TS</a>]
00:03:45 ◼ ► and yes you have to recognize that because it's so successful do you see this crazy backlash against the game the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/225">TS</a>]
00:03:51 ◼ ► concept of the game people who enjoy the game and that is one of the sides of success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/231">TS</a>]
00:03:58 ◼ ► and I don't think we spend enough time focusing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/238">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► Now because I think a lot of the people saying I agree with Marco it's not a terrible game I don't think anybody said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/240">TS</a>]
00:04:04 ◼ ► it was a terrible game. Nobody thought it was terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/244">TS</a>]
00:04:06 ◼ ► You know I said it was not a good game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/246">TS</a>]
00:04:08 ◼ ► and it's like oh it's good versus mediocre versus you know I would call it a mediocre game I would not call it a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/248">TS</a>]
00:04:13 ◼ ► game but certainly not terrible right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/253">TS</a>]
00:04:16 ◼ ► And of course as many things about it that make it be successful in the marketplace [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/256">TS</a>]
00:04:20 ◼ ► and I'm drawing distinction that a lot of other people don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/260">TS</a>]
00:04:22 ◼ ► Between the quality of something like it is a good game a bad game or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/262">TS</a>]
00:04:26 ◼ ► and how successful it is in the market sort of like the is the McDonald's hamburger good hamburger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/266">TS</a>]
00:04:30 ◼ ► or bad hammer versus how many McDonald's hamburgers are sold every year that type of distinction although I draw that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/270">TS</a>]
00:04:36 ◼ ► line much more harshly than most people do because most people will say that their favorite movie is the best movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/276">TS</a>]
00:04:41 ◼ ► and I would never say that about my favorite movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/281">TS</a>]
00:04:43 ◼ ► or you know I can separate those two more than most people like to separate them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/283">TS</a>]
00:04:48 ◼ ► What is this movie at the hall the pod cast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/288">TS</a>]
00:04:52 ◼ ► I would say Marco what is best in life and you would say What are you talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/292">TS</a>]
00:04:55 ◼ ► and what the second side of success is over I mean if you could just guess at least we're consistent. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/295">TS</a>]
00:05:08 ◼ ► So I reach out to have a serious conversation here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/308">TS</a>]
00:05:10 ◼ ► Up this is not that long but do you think there's going to be some flapping So there's going to be some flapping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/310">TS</a>]
00:05:17 ◼ ► and some birds Second Sight of success is the idea is the opposite side of the coin of like everyone attacking the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/317">TS</a>]
00:05:25 ◼ ► thing is successful and that is people deciding that the successful thing is a success based on its merits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/325">TS</a>]
00:05:32 ◼ ► and trick about that is choosing the merits that you think seem fair [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/332">TS</a>]
00:05:37 ◼ ► or admirable So that means diminishing the role of chance in this and minimizing or diminishing less attractive merits. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/337">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► So for example if you think it's admirable to be a successful game because of the code it's in the game itself because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/344">TS</a>]
00:05:51 ◼ ► because of what's on the screen and how it works you elevate those elements [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/351">TS</a>]
00:05:54 ◼ ► and if you think it's not admirable to be successful because of a genius marketing campaign. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/354">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► Or like a very well made television ad or something or whatever you decide is sort of less fair or less you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/360">TS</a>]
00:06:09 ◼ ► If you're deciding what your merits are most of us kind of agree like the game itself of the code that ships is good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/369">TS</a>]
00:06:15 ◼ ► and the game is successful that is fair and there's Adam BOWEN We should all look up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/375">TS</a>]
00:06:20 ◼ ► but if something isn't successful because they take the other end of the spectrum someone you know paid to get a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/380">TS</a>]
00:06:25 ◼ ► of fake reviews we all agree that's not admirable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/385">TS</a>]
00:06:27 ◼ ► What if they had a really good ad campaign and they wrote the ad copy themselves and they made the art [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/387">TS</a>]
00:06:31 ◼ ► and they didn't want to. What if they had a really good strategy for viral marketing or whatever we decide. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/391">TS</a>]
00:06:36 ◼ ► Well those aren't creepy or anything but they're not as admirable as the game. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/396">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► So as being in the game itself when I'm talking about like success based on the merit a lot most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/400">TS</a>]
00:06:46 ◼ ► when they see a big success will decide that the thing is successful based on whatever they think are the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/406">TS</a>]
00:06:56 ◼ ► and I think that was I was taking a last podcast was that the merits of the game itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/416">TS</a>]
00:07:02 ◼ ► and that's the thing that I find I would find an admirable reason for success is like what's in the code what's in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/422">TS</a>]
00:07:07 ◼ ► binary that ships the people and all the other stuff I consider less less directly connected to success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/427">TS</a>]
00:07:14 ◼ ► and in terms of like is the game good versus the marketing campaign good versus you know that the popularity of our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/434">TS</a>]
00:07:23 ◼ ► I mention in the show that there are plenty of other games that have similar attributes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/443">TS</a>]
00:07:28 ◼ ► when Mark was saying the attributes of the game to its excessive playing those attributes were probably necessary for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/448">TS</a>]
00:07:34 ◼ ► the success because of it's a terrible game on going to want to play anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/454">TS</a>]
00:07:37 ◼ ► but they're not sufficient because lots of other games have those same attributes and they're not successes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/457">TS</a>]
00:07:42 ◼ ► So you're saying that they were necessary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/462">TS</a>]
00:07:44 ◼ ► but not sufficient implicitly one of trying to get here is implicitly we're discussing that all of us kind of agreed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/464">TS</a>]
00:07:51 ◼ ► implicitly what things we're talking about we weren't talking about the ad campaign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/471">TS</a>]
00:07:55 ◼ ► and we weren't talking about you know any other aspects of the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/475">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► Again we were talking about essentially what's in the binary like the app itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/480">TS</a>]
00:08:04 ◼ ► and we did need to establish up front because I think like we're on the same page in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/484">TS</a>]
00:08:10 ◼ ► when you're talking about the game that's what we mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/490">TS</a>]
00:08:12 ◼ ► and I don't think that that's necessarily a valid viewpoint from all perspectives because if you were in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/492">TS</a>]
00:08:17 ◼ ► advertising business for example if you read Ad Age and I like our you know big into the advertising world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/497">TS</a>]
00:08:23 ◼ ► Of course you would consider the ad campaign part of the success of that you know the things like that so important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/503">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► fact it's more important in the binary that you created I was going to stab us in the like we are there are some things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/508">TS</a>]
00:08:33 ◼ ► that we don't state that are definitely informing what it is that we're talking about so much so that we didn't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/513">TS</a>]
00:08:37 ◼ ► need to call them out last time and most people who are responding that's all that need to call them out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/517">TS</a>]
00:08:42 ◼ ► but I think it's worth thinking about other perspectives on this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/522">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► And anyway so they said that about you know their aftermath star having these characteristics of course people came out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/526">TS</a>]
00:08:51 ◼ ► of the woodwork and said show me these tens of thousands of games that have these other characteristics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/531">TS</a>]
00:08:57 ◼ ► and that's kind of a sucker's bet because a you know how many games are there in the App Store one hundred thousand two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/537">TS</a>]
00:09:03 ◼ ► hundred fifty thousand are any more know how many games there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/543">TS</a>]
00:09:05 ◼ ► but no one has played them all so it's pretty much impossible to exhaust a very fine woman [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/545">TS</a>]
00:09:09 ◼ ► and it is some sort of statistical sampling of games to try to find games of these qualities. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/549">TS</a>]
00:09:14 ◼ ► Couple people posted games or they thought here's this game from five years ago that I was in college or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/554">TS</a>]
00:09:18 ◼ ► but the reason I say it's a sucker's bet because whatever game anyone was to cite someone will say well that one is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/558">TS</a>]
00:09:26 ◼ ► alike enough because there's always some extra nuance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/566">TS</a>]
00:09:29 ◼ ► or Flappy Birds has this game doesn't have the down to the fact like well that doesn't include birds in flappy birds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/569">TS</a>]
00:09:34 ◼ ► includes birds and do the history of the App Store with or as a call Angry Birds and tiny wing that birds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/574">TS</a>]
00:09:40 ◼ ► and selves you know therefore fly the birds was this perfect thing you know and it would be impossible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/580">TS</a>]
00:09:46 ◼ ► There was I see that little nuance that I point out this game has a neck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/586">TS</a>]
00:09:50 ◼ ► and doesn't have you know extra levels all on one screen doesn't scroll doesn't matter where you tap on the screen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/590">TS</a>]
00:09:55 ◼ ► some like the always be some difference treating the game that you cite in that game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/595">TS</a>]
00:09:58 ◼ ► and say See that's why flappy birds. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/598">TS</a>]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Yes and his other game wasn't and that's why I think flappy bird itself is the best example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/600">TS</a>]
00:10:06 ◼ ► Which is why I gave the time travel scenario on the show which is like OK go back in time to before it was created. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/606">TS</a>]
00:10:12 ◼ ► Bring the Flappy Bird diary with you submit it to the App Store across you know provisioning profiles would never let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/612">TS</a>]
00:10:21 ◼ ► And and you'll see that it doesn't sell and flappy bird itself is on the App Store for months and months and months [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/621">TS</a>]
00:10:26 ◼ ► and it didn't it didn't sell right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/626">TS</a>]
00:10:28 ◼ ► and even then with this example I imagine someone will say well there was some minor gameplay tweak that happened just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/628">TS</a>]
00:10:34 ◼ ► It took off and that was a minor game which gave gameplay tweak that made it happen all of this is true or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/634">TS</a>]
00:10:39 ◼ ► and of fighting for its gameplay was updated all between the time it was released six months ago now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/639">TS</a>]
00:10:45 ◼ ► and the reason I bring up these hypothetical you know people's complaints that they would have if you were trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/645">TS</a>]
00:10:50 ◼ ► say earlier games or if you were trying to say flappy bird itself which I did frequently on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/650">TS</a>]
00:10:54 ◼ ► and say what about fly the result was over six months was not successful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/654">TS</a>]
00:10:57 ◼ ► Like well you know understand it was it was you know it had to be it had to be in the store gestating for six months [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/657">TS</a>]
00:11:03 ◼ ► because of how long the ramp takes for viral whatever you know there's always something you can say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/663">TS</a>]
00:11:06 ◼ ► and this is the point I really wanted to get at on this part of cast and that I didn't bring up the last one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/666">TS</a>]
00:11:13 ◼ ► It's the second side of excesses people seeing something through festival [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/673">TS</a>]
00:11:18 ◼ ► and then working backwards from its success to determine why is why it was successful it's kind of this fatalistic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/678">TS</a>]
00:11:24 ◼ ► everything happens for a reason mindset where you see something successful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/684">TS</a>]
00:11:27 ◼ ► and decide that every attribute of that thing that you find admirable has to be in exactly that position for it to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/687">TS</a>]
00:11:32 ◼ ► set otherwise how could it have happened. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/692">TS</a>]
00:11:34 ◼ ► Right and this I think even applies to really good games and most other things in life where you look at the success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/694">TS</a>]
00:11:42 ◼ ► and even the really admirable awesome things about it. You'll say that's why it succeeded. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/702">TS</a>]
00:11:46 ◼ ► And also every other detail of that thing because how could it have been any other way you know this is what happened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/706">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► so it was written so it shall be done. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/711">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► Be married to the perfect game because it is massless it has no other games that were not five birds were not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/713">TS</a>]
00:11:57 ◼ ► successful therefore you must be like flappy birds. Nothing but flappy bird could have been together also and so forth. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/717">TS</a>]
00:12:03 ◼ ► And to address this friend of the show Kieran Healy put a blog post he's the sociologist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/723">TS</a>]
00:12:09 ◼ ► or does he play on the Internet I think is a real sociologist and teaches sociology. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/729">TS</a>]
00:12:13 ◼ ► He's really smart he teaches it do you believe that's true and if that's not true when I go and he's actually U.N.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/733">TS</a>]
00:12:18 ◼ ► or Something I'm being real deep trouble. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/738">TS</a>]
00:12:20 ◼ ► He posts something where the sociologists are interested in this phenomenon of like how do things become successful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/740">TS</a>]
00:12:25 ◼ ► and the angle they were taking on it was why can't record executives and stuff predict like hit songs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/745">TS</a>]
00:12:31 ◼ ► and ideas like don't you guys know anything about their business how come they have such a poor track record a perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/751">TS</a>]
00:12:38 ◼ ► hit song some songs hit some songs don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/758">TS</a>]
00:12:40 ◼ ► and if you asked executives beforehand they would be totally sure the song that was going to be a hit and it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/760">TS</a>]
00:12:45 ◼ ► and other people say the song is going nowhere and becomes a mega-hit. Why can't we predict that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/765">TS</a>]
00:12:49 ◼ ► So trying to figure out this phenomenon they ran a series of experiments where they had a bunch of songs in this case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/769">TS</a>]
00:12:54 ◼ ► and had people listen to them and download them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/774">TS</a>]
00:12:58 ◼ ► It was like fourteen thousand different people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/778">TS</a>]
00:13:00 ◼ ► and in some situations the people could see what other people were doing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/780">TS</a>]
00:13:04 ◼ ► They could see how many downloads a song have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/784">TS</a>]
00:13:06 ◼ ► And in other situations they can see how many songs how many times a song is downloaded. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/786">TS</a>]
00:13:12 ◼ ► So it's basically trying to move the slider on social influence from like zero all they have to maximum [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/792">TS</a>]
00:13:19 ◼ ► and what they found an experiment was that increasing the strength of social influence increased both the inequality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/799">TS</a>]
00:13:27 ◼ ► So as they made the social aspect more relevant like as they show the download numbers more primally as they sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/807">TS</a>]
00:13:32 ◼ ► buy downloads or whatever the difference between the most only successful became much bigger. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/812">TS</a>]
00:13:38 ◼ ► The difference you like the winners of the races which you kind of expect because like this a piling on effect of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/818">TS</a>]
00:13:42 ◼ ► once everyone recognizes a winner everyone's going to download it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/822">TS</a>]
00:13:45 ◼ ► and losers want to download it all versus if you had no signal from what other people are doing there would be you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/825">TS</a>]
00:13:50 ◼ ► wouldn't see this runaway success. But the other part of the thing was that the predictability of success went down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/830">TS</a>]
00:13:56 ◼ ► So in general the best songs never do really bad. On the worst songs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/836">TS</a>]
00:14:01 ◼ ► Never did really well but almost any other result was possible I'm quoting from his blog post there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/841">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► So basically once you add social signal to the mix amongst the games amongst the songs that were kind of in the good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/847">TS</a>]
00:14:14 ◼ ► category as the social signal increased which one of those songs would be that it became totally unpredictable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/854">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► and he when he wrote he first wrote this blog post I was like oh this is one point I didn't make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/860">TS</a>]
00:14:25 ◼ ► and I'm excited to make it on the on the pod cast next week but only updated his blog post making my additional point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/865">TS</a>]
00:14:31 ◼ ► He told me I could still make it because we're both right so I will use the phrase that I was going to use here I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/871">TS</a>]
00:14:38 ◼ ► to come up with different wording to that I want to copy is right exactly the way he's trying to explain the reluctance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/878">TS</a>]
00:14:44 ◼ ► of people's reluctance to agree that true unpredictability is a real feature of markets like this like people don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/884">TS</a>]
00:14:49 ◼ ► want to believe that there is that unpredictability as you increase also saying NO among the top they want to believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/889">TS</a>]
00:14:54 ◼ ► that the one that came in number one was always going to be the number one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/894">TS</a>]
00:14:57 ◼ ► but these experiments prove that in a totally different set of people with the same set of songs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/897">TS</a>]
00:15:01 ◼ ► Run this experiment to different times amongst the sort of good enough to be good songs as you increase a social signal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/901">TS</a>]
00:15:07 ◼ ► a totally unpredictable and people do not want to believe that so he says. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/907">TS</a>]
00:15:11 ◼ ► Psychologically people are often predisposed to believe in some version of a just world hypothesis where people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/911">TS</a>]
00:15:16 ◼ ► fundamentally get what they deserve and that's trying to get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/916">TS</a>]
00:15:19 ◼ ► but the fatalism thing people want to believe that the world is fair and just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/919">TS</a>]
00:15:23 ◼ ► and that what happened deserve to happen especially with something like well I like this game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/923">TS</a>]
00:15:29 ◼ ► Obviously it's number one because it's a good game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/929">TS</a>]
00:15:31 ◼ ► and if you try to tell them that it's number one for reasons other than just it being a really good game you're saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/931">TS</a>]
00:15:36 ◼ ► this game is terrible or you know you just don't understand why this game is good or anything like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/936">TS</a>]
00:15:43 ◼ ► and even cites the other example that I was hoping to bring out which is you see this all the time in books about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/943">TS</a>]
00:15:48 ◼ ► to succeed in business but what happens basically in the eighty's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/948">TS</a>]
00:15:52 ◼ ► and I guess in the ninety's probably today as well as some. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/952">TS</a>]
00:15:57 ◼ ► Some rich white dude had a very rich white dude who shows in a row. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/957">TS</a>]
00:16:00 ◼ ► Some are trying to you may or may not people there where if you pay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/960">TS</a>]
00:16:02 ◼ ► but the eighty's becomes amazingly successful for whatever reason and besides I now know everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/962">TS</a>]
00:16:10 ◼ ► I'm a mass of the successful I need to write a book telling everybody else what I know and they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/970">TS</a>]
00:16:14 ◼ ► and they write these books about like here's what I do like every morning and have cornflakes are right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/974">TS</a>]
00:16:19 ◼ ► and then make sure you drive an American car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/979">TS</a>]
00:16:21 ◼ ► and we get into work early like they did they just take every detail from their life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/981">TS</a>]
00:16:25 ◼ ► and they say because I am successful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/985">TS</a>]
00:16:26 ◼ ► Everything I do in my life must have led to the success there for all of you people should do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/986">TS</a>]
00:16:30 ◼ ► and you're not successful so who are you to complain. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/990">TS</a>]
00:16:33 ◼ ► Again working backwards from success in every business is like that like we did this in our business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/993">TS</a>]
00:16:38 ◼ ► and we're successful therefore you can do this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/998">TS</a>]
00:16:39 ◼ ► Seven Habits of Highly Effective People [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/999">TS</a>]
00:16:42 ◼ ► or whenever we get the software methodologies about in the future show I'm sure talking about this is a year where it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1002">TS</a>]
00:16:50 ◼ ► like we did something we were successful therefore this methodology should work for everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1010">TS</a>]
00:16:55 ◼ ► and all the business book in particular love to just that the winners come and tell you here's what I did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1015">TS</a>]
00:17:01 ◼ ► and if you do that you'll be successful because otherwise to think otherwise would be to think that your success is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1021">TS</a>]
00:17:07 ◼ ► derived from something other than the merits you consider admirable if your success is derived from like you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1027">TS</a>]
00:17:14 ◼ ► and got into a good school because their legacies the fact that you were in the right place at the right time with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1034">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► product that was merely satisfactory and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:23 ◼ ► and you know you decide it's because of your great business AQIM in really any monkey could have run the business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1043">TS</a>]
00:17:28 ◼ ► and would have been just fine and had the same result. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1048">TS</a>]
00:17:30 ◼ ► No one wants to believe that happenstance or things that you don't consider admirable contributed to your success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1050">TS</a>]
00:17:36 ◼ ► but I think in general that is more often the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1056">TS</a>]
00:17:41 ◼ ► Anyway this link to Karen's article but the results and links to the papers that no one's going to read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1061">TS</a>]
00:17:45 ◼ ► but he has a really good summary of it with some grass and then encourage everyone to read it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1065">TS</a>]
00:17:50 ◼ ► I agree Marco that most people that agree with you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1070">TS</a>]
00:17:52 ◼ ► but I think all of them are suffering from the symptoms described in Karen's blog post or well and also. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1072">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► I think one other valid point to make here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:03 ◼ ► I'm not going to even try to address all that because I'm not qualified really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1083">TS</a>]
00:18:08 ◼ ► and I have to save my words tonight so I don't and I'm coughing all night. But that's science. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1088">TS</a>]
00:18:13 ◼ ► Yes and I and science is always right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1093">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► So I think another thing to consider here is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:21 ◼ ► when trying to apply lessons learned from someone else's success to two general cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1101">TS</a>]
00:18:27 ◼ ► or to your case during the the great Gruber and Marilyn South by Southwest. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1107">TS</a>]
00:18:33 ◼ ► Oh nine Talk what your was at a nine car rolled up in the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1113">TS</a>]
00:18:40 ◼ ► It's one group Merlin talks and it's the titles like how to supercharge your blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1120">TS</a>]
00:18:44 ◼ ► and that's of course as I cast a title and it's a fantastic talkers audio recordings of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1124">TS</a>]
00:18:51 ◼ ► and it was two thousand nine hundred fireball it's not really going to work because we already have a Daring Fireball [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1131">TS</a>]
00:19:11 ◼ ► and Daring Fireball got big in an environment that didn't have a Daring Fireball and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1151">TS</a>]
00:19:20 ◼ ► and the environment back then was different and then he succeeded in that environment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1160">TS</a>]
00:19:24 ◼ ► But if you try to do the same thing today you're in a completely different time with different set of conditions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1164">TS</a>]
00:19:30 ◼ ► and you know the same lessons don't always work more than once because they they have this context that let them work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1170">TS</a>]
00:19:37 ◼ ► or that or that they thrive with and so like everyone's going to make all these flappy clone games now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1177">TS</a>]
00:19:42 ◼ ► and try to replicate this but this succeeded you know in part because of the environment and the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1182">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► and the fact that something like this hadn't really done this before so it was this novelty you know all know something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:55 ◼ ► like this or something like this. Hadn't done it before that people had seen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1195">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► And it's why people thought that the interesting thing but like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:03 ◼ ► when people brought up the Flappy Bird clones like you know lots of those a lot of debate that sort of mention me that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1203">TS</a>]
00:20:08 ◼ ► I didn't participate in on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1208">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► and some of them were like well just look at all the flighty Bird clones why are they succeeding all that is obvious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:15 ◼ ► you know like they're just whatever is already exists like that that's the reason I came for the time travel scenario [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1215">TS</a>]
00:20:20 ◼ ► you can't you can't say Welcome make a bird just like bloody birds now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1220">TS</a>]
00:20:23 ◼ ► but better doesn't succeed therefore you know what I was describing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1223">TS</a>]
00:20:27 ◼ ► That's that's not a valid example you know by the way the Flappy Bird clones are succeeding. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1227">TS</a>]
00:20:31 ◼ ► Well you know they think the same way that the mains water succeed you know typos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1231">TS</a>]
00:20:36 ◼ ► and the wonders of the App Store search ensure that far outweigh don't look at the pop charts like the Clones are still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1236">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► Well you know it's also the fact that now you can get flappy bird so it's wide open for Flappy Bird clones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:48 ◼ ► but you know what I mean like they're not none of those cones is going to be flooded roads because flooded roads [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1248">TS</a>]
00:20:52 ◼ ► already so that is that's not irrelevant to talk about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1252">TS</a>]
00:20:58 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by our friends attending Tang is mobile that makes sense. There are no B.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1258">TS</a>]
00:21:04 ◼ ► Simple to use mobile service provider from the people at two cows the company behind hover ting is a reseller of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1264">TS</a>]
00:21:10 ◼ ► Sprint network in the U.S. They have a great solid network behind them. It's going to a special U.R.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1270">TS</a>]
00:21:15 ◼ ► To learn more A.T.P. Ping dot com It's a very simple take it has great rates. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1275">TS</a>]
00:21:22 ◼ ► There's no contract and there's no early termination fees. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1282">TS</a>]
00:21:25 ◼ ► You own your device out right from the start and then you just pay for what you use every month so here's how it works. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1285">TS</a>]
00:21:32 ◼ ► You get any compatible Sprint device you can get through them you can get it new you can get it used you can buy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1292">TS</a>]
00:21:39 ◼ ► or whatever you can you know ask a friend if they have an old Sprint device including the Sprint i Phone So check check [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1299">TS</a>]
00:21:46 ◼ ► them to see exactly which models are compatible they have all the stuff up going to A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1306">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► That can not come to see so anyway you get your phone somehow doesn't really matter how any kind of any spring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:55 ◼ ► compatible phone that they list in their site and then you just pay a base price of sixty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1315">TS</a>]
00:22:01 ◼ ► and then on top of that there's all these buckets for there's a bucket set for for data buckets for talk minutes about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1321">TS</a>]
00:22:09 ◼ ► and Use pay for whatever you use whatever bucket is the cheapest that will accomplish what they use they pick that one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1329">TS</a>]
00:22:14 ◼ ► needle you for and there are a few bucks each so you can see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1334">TS</a>]
00:22:17 ◼ ► So for example you know if you use use one hundred megs of data this month on a device you'll just pay for that bucket [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1337">TS</a>]
00:22:24 ◼ ► if you use a gig next month you'll pay for that bucket next month [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1344">TS</a>]
00:22:27 ◼ ► and the next month after that if you switch was back down but right back down so you never really pay for it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1347">TS</a>]
00:22:33 ◼ ► You don't have to remember to like you know go to their site or call them and get it increased when you go on a trip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1353">TS</a>]
00:22:38 ◼ ► and then get it decreased when you go back home. None of that you just pay for what you use. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1358">TS</a>]
00:22:42 ◼ ► Simple as that their prices are actually recently even lower. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1362">TS</a>]
00:22:46 ◼ ► They discounted a bunch of their data presence bestially So five hundred megs twelve bucks two gigs is just twenty nine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1366">TS</a>]
00:22:54 ◼ ► So really really cheap data here that it includes tethering too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1374">TS</a>]
00:22:59 ◼ ► So really great so you can see how much you can save by going to tango eight A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1379">TS</a>]
00:23:04 ◼ ► To come check out the savings calculator you can enter in your last few bills from a carrier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1384">TS</a>]
00:23:09 ◼ ► and they'll show you based on your usage how much you will save with Thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1389">TS</a>]
00:23:14 ◼ ► and over time they can show you OK well let's say you go to buy a device up front. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1394">TS</a>]
00:23:18 ◼ ► Then you'll pay for it in three months with the savings or whatever it's a really great stuff here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1398">TS</a>]
00:23:24 ◼ ► They also have this cool program where if you're stuck in a contract with someone else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1404">TS</a>]
00:23:27 ◼ ► and have to pay an early termination fee to get yourself to Tang. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1407">TS</a>]
00:23:30 ◼ ► They will even give you twenty five percent of that early termination fee in service credit up to seventy five dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1410">TS</a>]
00:23:37 ◼ ► to help get you over the ten years with this possible. They have great customer support just like cover. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1417">TS</a>]
00:23:43 ◼ ► No hold no wait. Telephone support during the business day so you can just call them between A.T.M. and Eight P.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1423">TS</a>]
00:23:48 ◼ ► Eastern and a human being will pick up the phone who is ready and able to help you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1428">TS</a>]
00:23:53 ◼ ► No waiting on hold for Evernote transfers two million different departments. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1433">TS</a>]
00:23:57 ◼ ► Great set up here and they have tons of features only one time talk about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1437">TS</a>]
00:24:00 ◼ ► They they have you can pull devices to manage a fleet of devices all this crazy stuff great stuff here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1440">TS</a>]
00:24:06 ◼ ► It's also really good for developers if you want test devices on different platforms like Android you can get a test [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1446">TS</a>]
00:24:11 ◼ ► device have it connected with the great data plan you can even buy a Nexus five from the Google Play store at a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1451">TS</a>]
00:24:17 ◼ ► rate and bring it over to saying great stuff here sort of find out more. Going to A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1457">TS</a>]
00:24:22 ◼ ► Tang dot com and I believe that's it I don't think you have to enter coupon code or anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1462">TS</a>]
00:24:28 ◼ ► Yep that's a good thing that come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1468">TS</a>]
00:24:30 ◼ ► and learn more about this great company Thanks a lot to take in for sponsoring the show once again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1470">TS</a>]
00:24:36 ◼ ► So powerful very birds brands that at least I'm continuing to refer to this as flappy birds when it's singular. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1476">TS</a>]
00:24:42 ◼ ► I was not going to correct you on that. Everyone's doing this by the way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1482">TS</a>]
00:24:47 ◼ ► and I have the opposite problem with tiny wings where I feel like I always want to call tiny wing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1487">TS</a>]
00:24:51 ◼ ► but it wouldn't make no sense that there was just one wing anyway all these birds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1491">TS</a>]
00:24:55 ◼ ► and then a series of other things I was there is another thing with the birds like things that contribute to this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1495">TS</a>]
00:24:59 ◼ ► Flappy Birds I have to think somewhere in the list of things that contribute to this is us is the fact that it features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1499">TS</a>]
00:25:06 ◼ ► and the fact that that birds are you know common in the App Store there's been a lot of hit games birds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1506">TS</a>]
00:25:12 ◼ ► and their cuteness games about flying and it's had good artwork I mean it's there's no question that was part of it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1512">TS</a>]
00:25:18 ◼ ► Like in terms like your inherent experiments that he cited in his blog like what is the thing that caused the Angry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1518">TS</a>]
00:25:25 ◼ ► Birds to hit or go go back in time why the bird games are associated with mobile devices angry it was anger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1525">TS</a>]
00:25:31 ◼ ► but it's the first one was it building on something else like it's such an incredibly complex situation which I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1531">TS</a>]
00:25:37 ◼ ► think you could ever devise an experiment to try and isolate the things that I saw it in this experiment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1537">TS</a>]
00:25:41 ◼ ► but even this experiment is much simpler than the actual app store because songs are sort of I guess they have titles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1541">TS</a>]
00:25:46 ◼ ► and maybe that contributes to but they don't have artwork [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1546">TS</a>]
00:25:48 ◼ ► and I guess they have the entire history of music behind them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1548">TS</a>]
00:25:51 ◼ ► but it's kind of like you don't know what you're getting into you click on the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1551">TS</a>]
00:25:54 ◼ ► and then you listen to it like what determines as they increase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1554">TS</a>]
00:25:57 ◼ ► or which one becomes a hit it's one of those ones in the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1557">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► But which one and likely run the experiment a million times and it keeps becoming incredibly important to Bill. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:04 ◼ ► Which one will be the runaway success there are it is a runaway success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1564">TS</a>]
00:26:07 ◼ ► but you don't know which one out of the good group it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1567">TS</a>]
00:26:09 ◼ ► and I think they'll be the next phase an experiment trying to figure out is it really completely random [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1569">TS</a>]
00:26:14 ◼ ► or what other variables contributing towards increasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1574">TS</a>]
00:26:18 ◼ ► or decreasing your stance your chance of sort of being the lottery winner among the games that have these among the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1578">TS</a>]
00:26:25 ◼ ► songs that have these qualities to put them somewhere and a good group and a flapping. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1585">TS</a>]
00:26:32 ◼ ► So we had the kind of monumental moments over the last week and our member exactly when it was the image I was wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1592">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► I'm going to choose to not engage on that one but I think you have to choose K.C. Mommy or daddy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:56 ◼ ► So we had an interesting moment over the last week wherein we actually got a bit of not complimentary feedback about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1616">TS</a>]
00:27:05 ◼ ► John of all people which never really happens this is very rare that's not true that it doesn't come to the show comes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1625">TS</a>]
00:27:12 ◼ ► directly to me and believe me it exists. MEIGS Yes but Hand on heart. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1632">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► I've seen maybe five less than complimentary things about John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:22 ◼ ► and about five hundred for Marco on about five thousand for me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1642">TS</a>]
00:27:25 ◼ ► Well that Marco gets a lot of them directly to do with what they know like where they can reach you they don't need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1645">TS</a>]
00:27:30 ◼ ► go through the show feedback form to say mean things to you usually get on Twitter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1650">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► The email is mostly stuff since I pulled my email address off of my site. It's all hard to figure out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:38 ◼ ► Yeah well anyway So John do you want to address what this what this person said. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1658">TS</a>]
00:27:45 ◼ ► Yeah I didn't put it in there because I was such a big deal that you know I get hate mail because if I get a mail right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1665">TS</a>]
00:27:50 ◼ ► But because I thought well a couple aspects of it were interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1670">TS</a>]
00:27:54 ◼ ► and I'm going to read a paragraph of it here not the whole thing it's sent from that what they put in the feedback. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1674">TS</a>]
00:28:00 ◼ ► When was goofball Jones purchased fake name obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1680">TS</a>]
00:28:02 ◼ ► and it says a throwaway accounts not really looking for this to be read on air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1682">TS</a>]
00:28:06 ◼ ► and it probably won't so there are some good reverse psychology there like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1686">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► when they say I don't expect a reply I don't expect this to be read on air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:14 ◼ ► and if I say that I'll read it in there that's not why I'm reading out of there but in effect it works. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1694">TS</a>]
00:28:19 ◼ ► Oh you plan also before you get into it that somebody criticize urine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1699">TS</a>]
00:28:23 ◼ ► and as a result our notes file now has fifteen links in it for this topic. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1703">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► I'm going to put all of them into the show not continuing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► I can take a listen to this part guess anymore I mean I know it's artistic is not like anything after all his old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:38 ◼ ► podcast was called hyper critical and it wears thin after a while the guy complains about everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1718">TS</a>]
00:28:42 ◼ ► Well it's OK once in a while it's all the time all in caps. It's not even funny anymore. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1722">TS</a>]
00:28:47 ◼ ► It sounds more like a miserable person just whining about his miserable existence. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1727">TS</a>]
00:28:50 ◼ ► What are we to do with this does it really offer any insight to anything are people actually entertained by this on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1730">TS</a>]
00:28:56 ◼ ► sustained level Now the reason I bring that the show is to put this in the shows two reasons one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1736">TS</a>]
00:29:02 ◼ ► I'm fascinated by the idea that this person put in a fake email in the feedback form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1742">TS</a>]
00:29:08 ◼ ► or that use like a throwaway account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1748">TS</a>]
00:29:10 ◼ ► or whatever like I don't even know because I think that the real I mean why would you create a fake. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1750">TS</a>]
00:29:15 ◼ ► Can't you just type anything in the email field it doesn't make you confirm that your email is real right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1755">TS</a>]
00:29:19 ◼ ► I don't think so yeah I think you can just buy anything there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1759">TS</a>]
00:29:22 ◼ ► And like why wouldn't you put just put your regular you like either put it either put like X X X X dot com [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1762">TS</a>]
00:29:28 ◼ ► or something or just a made up thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1768">TS</a>]
00:29:29 ◼ ► or put your real email in like is there is there a downside to having a really male like I'm going to harass them by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1769">TS</a>]
00:29:34 ◼ ► email or tell people their email I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1774">TS</a>]
00:29:36 ◼ ► and that that confuses me as as does NOT using their real name who cares like if you don't like it you know put your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1776">TS</a>]
00:29:41 ◼ ► real name like it's not talking about you and me anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1781">TS</a>]
00:29:47 ◼ ► So want to put in the show nuts because you are a whole bunch of links to me being not critical about things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1787">TS</a>]
00:29:54 ◼ ► or talking about things that I mostly like or that like a lot. Yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1794">TS</a>]
00:30:01 ◼ ► And like I put these in here not to convince anybody of anything because I just want to provide context [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1801">TS</a>]
00:30:07 ◼ ► and I have a preface by saying that if your state of being requires some elaborate explanation there's already a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1807">TS</a>]
00:30:12 ◼ ► problem. This person is never going to like how much contact so I don't know you don't understand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1812">TS</a>]
00:30:16 ◼ ► Here's the context maybe complaining about things like Oh yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1816">TS</a>]
00:30:19 ◼ ► Now I find it much more enjoyable like I'm not letting this person over those persons not wasn't the target anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1819">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► but I thought it was worth talking about because it's easy for me to assume an easy for all of us assume I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:32 ◼ ► everybody already knows where we're coming from that they know all of our conduct so they've read our blog for years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1832">TS</a>]
00:30:37 ◼ ► they've read everything we write on the web and all our old podcast they know everything about us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1837">TS</a>]
00:30:44 ◼ ► We can kind of feel like you know of course everybody knows who these people are except for Katie obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1844">TS</a>]
00:30:49 ◼ ► and you know and where they're coming from and what opinions they've had before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1849">TS</a>]
00:30:55 ◼ ► and what other part because they've been on things they like one things I don't myself like that I mean I find myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1855">TS</a>]
00:31:00 ◼ ► Like I assume that you know everyone who listens the show has listened I have are critical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1860">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► and I find someone who listens the show and as never heard of hydrocortisone I'm surprised and I shouldn't be right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:09 ◼ ► So I think it's worthwhile providing contacts to the people who do actually enjoy the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1869">TS</a>]
00:31:15 ◼ ► I think they would enjoy it more understand it better with a little bit of context to that into the main thing I object [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1875">TS</a>]
00:31:21 ◼ ► to in this person's emails not so much they don't like the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1881">TS</a>]
00:31:23 ◼ ► Fine you know like you know like whatever you don't like me you know like me that's fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1883">TS</a>]
00:31:27 ◼ ► but the idea that I'm a miserable person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1887">TS</a>]
00:31:29 ◼ ► and I have a miserable existence that's easily refuted by a long list of pod cast I've been on where I talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1889">TS</a>]
00:31:36 ◼ ► things that I almost you know unabashedly love almost everything about and I put tons of links [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1896">TS</a>]
00:31:43 ◼ ► and they're not going to read off what they are. Marco will copy and paste them into the show notes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1903">TS</a>]
00:31:48 ◼ ► But suffice it to say that I talk about some podcasts I mostly just talk about things that I like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1908">TS</a>]
00:31:54 ◼ ► and the one link that I want to put in here for the people who want to kind of this is the original thing that I posted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1914">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► and nine with the title hypercritical which is sort of my explanation of my shtick as he put it like what's the deal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:05 ◼ ► with a guy who complains all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1925">TS</a>]
00:32:06 ◼ ► Here is my attempt at explaining it again this explanation is not going to convince anyone that they are all not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1926">TS</a>]
00:32:10 ◼ ► something I like hearing complaining all the time you know obviously if I go when I went over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1930">TS</a>]
00:32:14 ◼ ► but I think it does provide context and again I always assume everyone who reads my blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1934">TS</a>]
00:32:18 ◼ ► or listens to this part of death or help I guess. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1938">TS</a>]
00:32:21 ◼ ► Of course they read this article How could they be listening to this you know that would know where I was coming from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1941">TS</a>]
00:32:25 ◼ ► but that seems to not be the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1945">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► So anyway and also we didn't have a sort of a dippy by the way where we talk about how we deal with criticism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:33 ◼ ► and all that stuff which again some new listeners may not have heard so there will be a cornucopia of show notes links [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1953">TS</a>]
00:32:40 ◼ ► this week for people who want to hear me liking things you know I think the most obvious example of this which is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1960">TS</a>]
00:32:52 ◼ ► and Dan Benjamin doing your five by five movies is that still the only edition of five by five of the movies. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1972">TS</a>]
00:32:58 ◼ ► Now I think the second one and you know what the point is there's not many. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1978">TS</a>]
00:33:02 ◼ ► And this this podcast which which you did with Dan if you don't know listeners in you should listen to this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1982">TS</a>]
00:33:13 ◼ ► Dan and John took the movie Goodfellas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1993">TS</a>]
00:33:15 ◼ ► and you literally spin something to the order of one hundred fifty percent of the length of the movie discussing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/1995">TS</a>]
00:33:23 ◼ ► movie I remember you being extremely If you save and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2003">TS</a>]
00:33:27 ◼ ► and it it's how do you spend three hours talking about a two hour movie. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2007">TS</a>]
00:33:31 ◼ ► You know if you love it like that that to me is just a seminal example of you being extremely positive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2011">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► and if you set about something I mean it's one thing to spend an hour talking about a two hour movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:43 ◼ ► and liking it it's another thing to spend two hours talking about a two hour movie and liking it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2023">TS</a>]
00:33:47 ◼ ► But you sent something to the order of three hours discussing this two hour movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2027">TS</a>]
00:33:51 ◼ ► and how phenomenal it was in every frame. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2031">TS</a>]
00:33:54 ◼ ► And that's pretty darn complimentary and I loved it and I love Goodfellas and I've seen them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2034">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► Movie thank you very much and I'd seen it before you'd done that pod cast thank you very much. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:05 ◼ ► I know you're proud of the truly that podcast is wonderful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2045">TS</a>]
00:34:10 ◼ ► and in you know it it reminded me a lot of the really fantastic ones that that John Gruber [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2050">TS</a>]
00:34:16 ◼ ► and Dan did about the Bond series but either way the point is it was extremely If you say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2056">TS</a>]
00:34:21 ◼ ► and to me one of the things I love so much about the work that you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2061">TS</a>]
00:34:24 ◼ ► and why I'm so lucky to be on the show with you is because a lot of the times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2064">TS</a>]
00:34:28 ◼ ► when you tear something apart it to me it's so clearly out of love not out of hate and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2068">TS</a>]
00:34:32 ◼ ► and that's that's what makes it so enjoyable because if it really was negative I wouldn't want to be on the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2072">TS</a>]
00:34:38 ◼ ► Now as the saying goes the opposite of love is not hate it's indifference. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2078">TS</a>]
00:34:43 ◼ ► or something you don't hear me talk about it all the good example that I was that well you know it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2083">TS</a>]
00:34:46 ◼ ► but we did the incomparable covered the first three Star Wars movies which I really like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2086">TS</a>]
00:34:52 ◼ ► and we did two episodes on each movie set six total episodes of the original trilogy of Star Wars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2092">TS</a>]
00:34:57 ◼ ► and of course the video game that I could not stop talking about you know since it was released [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2097">TS</a>]
00:35:02 ◼ ► and for having talked Ernie we did an episode of Being comfortable about that as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2102">TS</a>]
00:35:05 ◼ ► So anyway there's tons of me liking things if you want to hear that which you may or may not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2105">TS</a>]
00:35:12 ◼ ► I was expecting a much better rant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2112">TS</a>]
00:35:14 ◼ ► and a little disappointed now because I sent a NIAM to Margo a couple that we get there to now saying hey man if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2114">TS</a>]
00:35:20 ◼ ► look at the show notes lately because you're in for a good show of history I don't want to write like this one I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2120">TS</a>]
00:35:25 ◼ ► going to try to convince someone who doesn't like me that they should like me like this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2125">TS</a>]
00:35:29 ◼ ► The section was not for that person who presumably is not listening to the show anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2129">TS</a>]
00:35:32 ◼ ► but for the people who are listening and do enjoy it and might enjoy it more with more context and background. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2132">TS</a>]
00:35:38 ◼ ► Right now I'm a little disappointed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2138">TS</a>]
00:35:41 ◼ ► It's OK You know we're also sponsored this week by our friends at square space the on one platform that makes it fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2141">TS</a>]
00:35:48 ◼ ► and easy to create your own professional website or online portfolio for free trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2148">TS</a>]
00:35:53 ◼ ► and ten percent off going to squarespace dot com and use offer code. Casey that is see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2153">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► Why in case no one knows how to spell Katie's name like all the people who e-mail us square spaces always improving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► their platform with new features new designs and even better support. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:10 ◼ ► They're beautiful to learn to start with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2170">TS</a>]
00:36:11 ◼ ► but then you can also customize them with all their cool tools online that are really easy to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2171">TS</a>]
00:36:16 ◼ ► and also if you can inject custom H.T.M.L. C.S.S. and Javascript if you so desire. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2176">TS</a>]
00:36:21 ◼ ► They also have mobile layouts for all their sites they're fully response of layouts so they're great on any device any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2181">TS</a>]
00:36:29 ◼ ► If you need any help doing all this stuff they have an amazing support team with over seventy employees right here in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2189">TS</a>]
00:36:36 ◼ ► They works twenty four hours a day seven days a week on support their customer support team has won numerous awards as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2196">TS</a>]
00:36:42 ◼ ► have their designs and many other things about square space because they are just that awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2202">TS</a>]
00:36:47 ◼ ► Just eight dollars a month and includes a freedom eighty percent for a whole year up front. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2207">TS</a>]
00:36:52 ◼ ► And they're doing they have a couple new things for the same read over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2212">TS</a>]
00:36:55 ◼ ► and over again because they sponsor the entire pod cast a sphere which we love them for of course they have a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2215">TS</a>]
00:37:02 ◼ ► new things so they're this new thing called square space logo in addition to build a new Web site they now have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2222">TS</a>]
00:37:08 ◼ ► thing actually lets you create a logo for your side business cards shirt whatever you want you can go check out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2228">TS</a>]
00:37:16 ◼ ► Also every square space plan now includes that they built this cool commerce functionality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2236">TS</a>]
00:37:21 ◼ ► and before it was limited to only certain accounts. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2241">TS</a>]
00:37:24 ◼ ► Now all accounts include the commerce functionality so you can have you can now have you can make your own store online. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2244">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► Online goods or offline goods if you want to like sell shirts or anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:35 ◼ ► or if you want to sell like you know e-books anything electronic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2255">TS</a>]
00:37:38 ◼ ► or physical you can sell through their store full integration full you know store front carts all this crazy stuff they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2258">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► have all this built for you comes with every square space player now at no additional charge. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:50 ◼ ► And a really cool thing now is if you want to work at square space. So go to be a part of it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2270">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► That's squarespace dot com be a part of it. They are hiring and they are really rolling out the red carpet here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2276">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► If you have you for an engineering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:05 ◼ ► or design position before March fifteenth they will invite you in your partner to be New Yorkers for a weekend. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2285">TS</a>]
00:38:10 ◼ ► They'll fly you out to New York put you have one of the city's best hotels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2290">TS</a>]
00:38:13 ◼ ► and give you a long weekend of checking out some of their favorite attractions cultural icons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2293">TS</a>]
00:38:17 ◼ ► and restaurants in the city. And Squarespace picks up the tab for the whole thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2297">TS</a>]
00:38:22 ◼ ► They've been voted one of New York City's greatest places to work for two years running. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2302">TS</a>]
00:38:26 ◼ ► So put them on your short list if you're looking for a job they're looking to hire thirty engineers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2306">TS</a>]
00:38:30 ◼ ► and designers by March fifteenth. So go to be a part of it that's where Space dot com to learn more about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2310">TS</a>]
00:38:37 ◼ ► Anyway thanks what a square space for sponsoring our show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2317">TS</a>]
00:38:40 ◼ ► Once again good scripts based are commies offer code Casey for ten percent off. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2320">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to square space for sponsoring the show again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:47 ◼ ► Do you have any thoughts on what's app what's up on even I don't freeze this I don't really to be honest this is kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2327">TS</a>]
00:38:55 ◼ ► of unimportant and boring to me which I know is making friend of the show Ben Thompson pulls hair out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2335">TS</a>]
00:39:02 ◼ ► but I don't to me it's just very unremarkable other than the cost because it doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2342">TS</a>]
00:39:10 ◼ ► me I've never seen the app outside of a screenshot I think of one on one of St T. Cories posts. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2350">TS</a>]
00:39:20 ◼ ► I think what's interesting is that we don't know that much about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2360">TS</a>]
00:39:22 ◼ ► and it has been right you know I think this shows more than anything recently that you know there were there were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2362">TS</a>]
00:39:28 ◼ ► always you know there's the consumer tech stuff that we all see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2368">TS</a>]
00:39:32 ◼ ► and there is there was always like the kind of business side of enterprise tech stuff that was mostly invisible world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2372">TS</a>]
00:39:37 ◼ ► to those of us outside of it that you know we don't really care like if s.a.p bought Oracle it would be a major deal to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2377">TS</a>]
00:39:45 ◼ ► a lot of people but consumers wouldn't know who these people are and wouldn't care. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2385">TS</a>]
00:39:50 ◼ ► This I think shows that the consumer tech world is now so big you know what SAP is as far as I know and I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2390">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► I know very little about I really shouldn't be talking about it but as far as I know it is huge in lots of places [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:06 ◼ ► but North America is not one of them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2406">TS</a>]
00:40:08 ◼ ► And so as far as I know at any rate it's really massive were everywhere else at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2408">TS</a>]
00:40:13 ◼ ► and so I did a lot of Americans aren't familiar with it you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2413">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► and the fact is it's it got so big to be a major threat to Facebook and Facebook also you know so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:27 ◼ ► So what's app is is basically a replacement for S.M.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2427">TS</a>]
00:40:30 ◼ ► and There's a few other apps that do this like there's a line and there's a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2430">TS</a>]
00:40:34 ◼ ► but I think I think this is the biggest worldwide I think I'm not sure about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2434">TS</a>]
00:40:39 ◼ ► But what this really shows you know S.M.S. Is extremely valuable and Facebook want. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2439">TS</a>]
00:40:44 ◼ ► Facebook has wanted to own that they want to they want it when you say it's the messenger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2444">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► and not everyone use Facebook Messenger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:50 ◼ ► and I think that's pretty much the reason for this that Facebook saw this major market. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2450">TS</a>]
00:40:56 ◼ ► This is worth a ton of money because it replaces S.M.S. For so many people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2456">TS</a>]
00:41:00 ◼ ► And Facebook wants in on that and Facebook is not a part of that and it's not some kind of standard protocol like S.M.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2460">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► Was then they're kind of locked out and it could actually work against them to not own this in the future. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:13 ◼ ► You know if all the socialization ister is happening on something that someone else controls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2473">TS</a>]
00:41:17 ◼ ► and that someone else could lock up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2477">TS</a>]
00:41:19 ◼ ► and to keep Facebook out of that's pretty bad for them so I think this there's no question why Facebook would want this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2479">TS</a>]
00:41:26 ◼ ► That is very no question that that is that is clear. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2486">TS</a>]
00:41:32 ◼ ► As for the finances I have no idea people who are more no more knowledgeable about the stuff than they seem to seem to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2492">TS</a>]
00:41:38 ◼ ► think this is actually not a terrible price for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2498">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► but I think it just really shows the tech world is so big now that it's such a massive collection of multiple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:51 ◼ ► industries even though this isn't even just want to scream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2511">TS</a>]
00:41:53 ◼ ► or it's so big that extremely major things like this can happen in it and most of us don't know anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2513">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► and you know the idea of having like a tech show that comments on everything in the world tech is completely outdated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:05 ◼ ► now because the world tech is too big and like one show not only doesn't have time for that kind of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2525">TS</a>]
00:42:11 ◼ ► but even the host on the show like you can't you can't get enough hosts on a show taping experts all these areas were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:21 ◼ ► You know I agree the only reason I think that maybe we don't understand this is how many how many friends do you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2541">TS</a>]
00:42:28 ◼ ► Marco that you communicate with on a regular basis regular enough that you would desire to send them text messages that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2548">TS</a>]
00:42:36 ◼ ► do not live in the United States. Exactly how are you John. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2556">TS</a>]
00:42:42 ◼ ► Well we don't we live in the United States [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2562">TS</a>]
00:42:44 ◼ ► but if you lived in a right on trade be communicating with different countries. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2564">TS</a>]
00:42:47 ◼ ► Well but the thing of it is is that the United States lives in a very kind of sheltered the right word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2567">TS</a>]
00:42:54 ◼ ► but we we live in our own little igloo insular. Thank you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2574">TS</a>]
00:42:58 ◼ ► That sort I'm looking for and so we're looking at Europe for example Europe. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2578">TS</a>]
00:43:03 ◼ ► In Europe it's very easy to go to another country because all the countries in Europe are the size of Rhode Island [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2583">TS</a>]
00:43:09 ◼ ► and only it's a did just email Marco. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2589">TS</a>]
00:43:12 ◼ ► But anyway the point is the point is locating a side is that there's a lot more international contact in Europe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2592">TS</a>]
00:43:20 ◼ ► and from everything I've gathered anyways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2600">TS</a>]
00:43:23 ◼ ► and so it would not be surprising to me if if it was a much more important thing to have international text messaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2603">TS</a>]
00:43:33 ◼ ► between countries and I know I have a friend that lives in Wales and he happens to be American but he lives in Wales [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2613">TS</a>]
00:43:39 ◼ ► and a half ago maybe two years ago he begged me to install Viber which was some equivalent to what's happened that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2619">TS</a>]
00:43:47 ◼ ► would let us exchange text messages for free and that was before i Message [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2627">TS</a>]
00:43:51 ◼ ► or it was around the time that I message was the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2631">TS</a>]
00:43:54 ◼ ► and I know that I wouldn't talk to for example my curly nearly as much as I do it wasn't for the fact that he you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2634">TS</a>]
00:44:00 ◼ ► Can I messaged back and forth and I message was doomed to never be this thing because you couldn't do it on Android. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2640">TS</a>]
00:44:06 ◼ ► And the advantage of what's happened all environ all these other things is that they are cross-platform so by by virtue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2646">TS</a>]
00:44:13 ◼ ► and being cross platform which are two things that don't matter that much to the three of us the cross-platform part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2653">TS</a>]
00:44:20 ◼ ► and certainly don't matter that much to us in the international part I don't think we were ever really in a position [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2660">TS</a>]
00:44:27 ◼ ► that Americans would understand this plus most American cell phone plans. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2667">TS</a>]
00:44:32 ◼ ► It's a feat to get unlimited text messaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2672">TS</a>]
00:44:35 ◼ ► but nearly everyone paid everyone that I know pays it in fact I was one of the big holdouts to not get an unlimited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2675">TS</a>]
00:44:43 ◼ ► text messaging plan and even I eventually caved. I don't know three years ago four years ago something like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2683">TS</a>]
00:44:50 ◼ ► So it's it's not surprising to me that Americans don't understand it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2690">TS</a>]
00:44:55 ◼ ► but it's also not surprising to me that it is a pretty big deal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2695">TS</a>]
00:44:59 ◼ ► I still have an unlimited texting plan which will surprise you don't you don't really have a cell phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2699">TS</a>]
00:45:04 ◼ ► I know very well I don't have one either because I've been holding on A.T.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2704">TS</a>]
00:45:07 ◼ ► To the one of the reasons why everyone has these on them in a plant in the U.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2707">TS</a>]
00:45:11 ◼ ► Now is because the carriers have removed most sensible options to force you to pay to pay more money. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2711">TS</a>]
00:45:18 ◼ ► It's just like the triple play deal that every cable company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2718">TS</a>]
00:45:23 ◼ ► and file is pushing extremely hard anybody who doesn't have all the services you know that is similar with protest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2723">TS</a>]
00:45:29 ◼ ► plans where I'm still using this grandfathered like five dollar a month for a few hundred text message plan because I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2729">TS</a>]
00:45:37 ◼ ► just don't need anything more than that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2737">TS</a>]
00:45:39 ◼ ► but you know if you had to start a new line today your only choice basically is like no texts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2739">TS</a>]
00:45:44 ◼ ► and pay for each one which usually ends up being a lot or unlimited like in the U.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2744">TS</a>]
00:45:50 ◼ ► There's almost no other options right now that this whatsapp thing assists. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2750">TS</a>]
00:45:55 ◼ ► When I look at it it looks like more sort of kind of useless churn. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2755">TS</a>]
00:46:00 ◼ ► In the market for things that like we all know that people want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2760">TS</a>]
00:46:04 ◼ ► but that we can't seem to get an A in a nice pleasant way like more people want to talk to each other like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2764">TS</a>]
00:46:11 ◼ ► telephone was a nice way for people to talk to each other but it had both real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2771">TS</a>]
00:46:15 ◼ ► and artificial barriers the real barriers where that you know the power of the president to be there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2775">TS</a>]
00:46:20 ◼ ► and then international calling it like of course I can delay for you know the distances traveled that was weird for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2780">TS</a>]
00:46:27 ◼ ► and then the artificial barriers Well no kind of real to it like a long distance fees because all costs more money to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2787">TS</a>]
00:46:32 ◼ ► call for their wages to pay for the infrastructure to get there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2792">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► but in the long distance fees scaled up on a scale that wasn't a portion of the cost of making the call that was all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:40 ◼ ► kind of weird but people want to talk to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2800">TS</a>]
00:46:43 ◼ ► and so instant messaging with the advent of the Internet is like well you know now we don't need to pay long distance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2803">TS</a>]
00:46:47 ◼ ► fees I can talk immediately to someone in another country this is a paper you can do e-mail you know the one that kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2807">TS</a>]
00:46:52 ◼ ► of sort of worked out although you know that terrible secure decisions lead to spam [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2812">TS</a>]
00:46:57 ◼ ► but at least there's only sort of one email but instant message there was tons of instant messaging client [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2817">TS</a>]
00:47:01 ◼ ► and it was all surrounding us wanting to talk to each other in real time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2821">TS</a>]
00:47:05 ◼ ► and all that stupid churn between I think you and I am in Yahoo Instant Messenger and M.S.N. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2825">TS</a>]
00:47:09 ◼ ► and Skype and like all these different networks each Sometimes getting critical mass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2829">TS</a>]
00:47:14 ◼ ► and nothing will ever be as big as I think you and I remember my C Q number till the day I die [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2834">TS</a>]
00:47:18 ◼ ► and then it just goes away and the name is big and everyone the name and all my friends are on AIM and then S.M.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2838">TS</a>]
00:47:23 ◼ ► and everyone's texting like all these things are churning around the basic desire we have to communicate to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2843">TS</a>]
00:47:31 ◼ ► in more or less real time with maybe a little bit of asynchronous stuff allowed like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2851">TS</a>]
00:47:36 ◼ ► but you know shorter than an email not a phone call text to and from each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2856">TS</a>]
00:47:42 ◼ ► and Whatsapp was taking advantage of I go as I messages are a feeling where they charge you ten cents for the stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2862">TS</a>]
00:47:47 ◼ ► things that they're piggybacking on analog cell signals anyway back in the day you know I was like it was free for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2867">TS</a>]
00:47:51 ◼ ► carriers and they would say we can charge people ten cents we think we'll make a mint and they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2871">TS</a>]
00:47:55 ◼ ► but that was an artificial back that people start to realize I was out of it was no reason to hate our son. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2875">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► As it always struck me as like you were charging money for something that should not cost much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:03 ◼ ► but people found a valuable so they paid and then as soon as people could bypass that with Whatsapp and vibe in line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2883">TS</a>]
00:48:10 ◼ ► and all the other apps we have access to the public Internet over the data network the same cell providers give us a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2890">TS</a>]
00:48:16 ◼ ► or paper a texting plan well because all my friends aren't actually the room texting each other whatever well whatsapp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2896">TS</a>]
00:48:22 ◼ ► and the other apps like it got enough people to say hey come over here it's cheaper or free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2902">TS</a>]
00:48:27 ◼ ► and we don't charge attendance for message and you can do it across countries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2907">TS</a>]
00:48:30 ◼ ► and we can eliminate all these other artificial barriers and everything will be good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2910">TS</a>]
00:48:34 ◼ ► but really that was just another private company now being swallowed up by another private company like I don't feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2914">TS</a>]
00:48:39 ◼ ► like we're making progress there is just shifting around us just like this this big you know it's like a pile of chips [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2919">TS</a>]
00:48:45 ◼ ► on the table and we're shoving the chips toward this corner OK now towards that corner for that corner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2925">TS</a>]
00:48:49 ◼ ► and it never is it landing in a place where if you like is there a sustainable way that we can all talk to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2929">TS</a>]
00:48:53 ◼ ► in semi real time we're on the same network and we can all take some each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2933">TS</a>]
00:48:56 ◼ ► and it's you know it may be it's not free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2936">TS</a>]
00:48:59 ◼ ► but it sustainable over some pricing structure it's on a standardized protocol [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2939">TS</a>]
00:49:02 ◼ ► or anyone can implement it like it's so hard to get to even a solution is crappy the malware we kind of all agree on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2942">TS</a>]
00:49:09 ◼ ► the protocols even though the protocols of terrible need to discourage of spam even that sometimes I think well at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2949">TS</a>]
00:49:15 ◼ ► least we got an email this this is one emails us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2955">TS</a>]
00:49:17 ◼ ► and we don't have to deal with every single day every single you know decade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2957">TS</a>]
00:49:21 ◼ ► or so some new e-mail service coming up like oh I can't tell you now because I'm on the G. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2961">TS</a>]
00:49:27 ◼ ► and you're on the Hummel email we can send him across because an email to a cello competition for the front end client [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2967">TS</a>]
00:49:31 ◼ ► and everything but the back end is all you know interoperable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2971">TS</a>]
00:49:34 ◼ ► and we have not achieved that with ways to send little bits of text to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2974">TS</a>]
00:49:40 ◼ ► and I think Facebook buying whatsapp doesn't bring us any closer to that goal which makes me sad. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2980">TS</a>]
00:49:46 ◼ ► And there's also you know I think I mean I've been beating this drum a little bit recently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2986">TS</a>]
00:49:51 ◼ ► but I think this is kind of creepy or like just kind of negative news to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/2991">TS</a>]
00:50:00 ◼ ► Because it's such a massive acquisition like it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:02 ◼ ► It looks to me like Facebook is just like taking out a competitor like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3002">TS</a>]
00:50:07 ◼ ► That's all this was is Facebook got freaked out and has now neutralized a competitor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3007">TS</a>]
00:50:13 ◼ ► and that which they've done before and that's an Instagram was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3013">TS</a>]
00:50:17 ◼ ► and it just seems like the more like these the Web Giants are so giant these days that they can afford to buy pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3017">TS</a>]
00:50:25 ◼ ► much anyone else besides one of the other web Giants. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3025">TS</a>]
00:50:28 ◼ ► Even then sometimes they can do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3028">TS</a>]
00:50:30 ◼ ► but they can afford to buy pretty much anybody who ever becomes a threat to their business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3030">TS</a>]
00:50:35 ◼ ► and this has to be limiting the amount of true innovation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3035">TS</a>]
00:50:40 ◼ ► and progress that we're seeing in our industry because you know it's pretty much impossible at most most big tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3040">TS</a>]
00:50:47 ◼ ► startups who are doing very well are going to have a really hard time turning down a multiple billion dollar offer of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3047">TS</a>]
00:50:56 ◼ ► And so this basically give it basically gives Facebook and Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3056">TS</a>]
00:51:01 ◼ ► and you know if you watch anybody who has enough money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3061">TS</a>]
00:51:06 ◼ ► and willpower to buy a multi-billion dollar company it gives them all assurances that they're not going to really be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3066">TS</a>]
00:51:14 ◼ ► And occasionally something will break out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3074">TS</a>]
00:51:17 ◼ ► and not take that route like Twitter did that most recently where they just went for the I.P.O. Instead. So far right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3077">TS</a>]
00:51:25 ◼ ► But you know I guess I can't I can't help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3085">TS</a>]
00:51:29 ◼ ► but be sad at what this actually does to the big picture where there is so much less competition in progress. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3089">TS</a>]
00:51:37 ◼ ► Once everyone gets so big they can just buy one who's a threat. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3097">TS</a>]
00:51:40 ◼ ► If your business is based on like everybody being on your platform like if you're trying to be a protocol like e-mail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3100">TS</a>]
00:51:46 ◼ ► didn't have a company behind it but Facebook is a company behind it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3106">TS</a>]
00:51:49 ◼ ► and so many people on Facebook that it's like their their goal is you know everyone should be on Facebook. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3109">TS</a>]
00:51:54 ◼ ► And so if they perform well in their business plan it's like we have stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3114">TS</a>]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Find the other thing that is going to get enough critical mass that we can never compete with it no matter how good we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3120">TS</a>]
00:52:07 ◼ ► make our product and buy it before it gets that critical mass and become so expensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3127">TS</a>]
00:52:12 ◼ ► and I think they waited a little bit too long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3132">TS</a>]
00:52:14 ◼ ► and what because they always what they want to buy it like they want to be sure that it would be something that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3134">TS</a>]
00:52:19 ◼ ► couldn't compete with like look you know Instagram's got too much mass like no matter how good we make pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3139">TS</a>]
00:52:24 ◼ ► features we're never going to pull that Instagram people where they've gotten too big. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3144">TS</a>]
00:52:28 ◼ ► We need to snap them up now and maybe they will do a little bit along and Instagram too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3148">TS</a>]
00:52:32 ◼ ► but they don't want to buy all these companies like oh my god they're a threat they're going to buy them for like five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3152">TS</a>]
00:52:35 ◼ ► hundred million dollars and they never would have been a threat they never would've done anyway it's so hard to tell. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3155">TS</a>]
00:52:39 ◼ ► Again getting back to the unpredictability of success once you cross some threshold of value [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3159">TS</a>]
00:52:44 ◼ ► and Whatsapp like it's that type of situation where it's like look how big they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3164">TS</a>]
00:52:49 ◼ ► and there's no way Facebook messaging is ever going to pull those people away like they've got the critical mass in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3169">TS</a>]
00:52:54 ◼ ► same way that we did. We've got critical mass. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3174">TS</a>]
00:52:56 ◼ ► Our only option is to buy them because that's you that's what you do you know that's the final play [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3176">TS</a>]
00:53:00 ◼ ► and you would hope that they would go for that from there again from the perspective of the strategy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3180">TS</a>]
00:53:05 ◼ ► If they're doing well they do that before they cost sixty million dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3185">TS</a>]
00:53:09 ◼ ► but it's actually worse to say well they're too big now I'm not going to basics team billion dollars let's just let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3189">TS</a>]
00:53:14 ◼ ► them go because they're never going to you know they're never going to make a messaging product that dethrones whatsapp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3194">TS</a>]
00:53:20 ◼ ► once that'll be thrown by something else but probably not Facebook So yeah the strategy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3200">TS</a>]
00:53:24 ◼ ► when you go this money is we may be too long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3204">TS</a>]
00:53:28 ◼ ► but late is better than never because if we just ignore them then no they'll be there on doing like one of my space I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3208">TS</a>]
00:53:35 ◼ ► don't you know the timing has worked up a lot of my space had the wherewithal to offer a newly born Facebook before it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3215">TS</a>]
00:53:43 ◼ ► was anything another money to live in is better. We'd all be talking about My Space by about that now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3223">TS</a>]
00:53:49 ◼ ► Those darn monkey those darn butterfly wings laughing but anyway you get the idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3229">TS</a>]
00:53:54 ◼ ► Like that's the strength of your one of those companies were like are the only way we succeed is if we get everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3234">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Birth in the world like if we offer a feature that's the future that everybody in the world that they use for that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:04 ◼ ► want to summary pictures and tell them about your kid's birthday you have to do it on Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3244">TS</a>]
00:54:08 ◼ ► and of someone who is in something other than Facebook to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3248">TS</a>]
00:54:11 ◼ ► and those somebody's there are hundreds of millions of somebodies. We've screwed up we need to buy that company. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3251">TS</a>]
00:54:16 ◼ ► And yeah that's from a consumer's perspective a terrible But if you are acting as Facebook that's that's their strategy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3256">TS</a>]
00:54:25 ◼ ► Our final sponsor this week is Lynda dot com L Y N D A dot com When the dot com health [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3265">TS</a>]
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00:54:55 ◼ ► and then they even have as Katie pointed out last time they even have like the scrolling transcript on the side so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3295">TS</a>]
00:55:02 ◼ ► You can scroll around and you can even click on a point the transcript will seek to that point in a video. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3302">TS</a>]
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00:55:19 ◼ ► So the teachers of these things are experts in their field working professionals not just like some random person on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3319">TS</a>]
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00:56:11 ◼ ► and just kind of you know get better at this whole feel that I've never had any training as an audio engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3371">TS</a>]
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00:57:06 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to Linda for sponsorship once again they are really a great service and and I personally have used them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3426">TS</a>]
00:57:12 ◼ ► You know I looked at them a couple weeks back when they first sponsored I saw this really long list of videos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3432">TS</a>]
00:57:19 ◼ ► and I was like you know that's a lot but not overwhelming. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3439">TS</a>]
00:57:23 ◼ ► And then I realized I was only looking at the new videos area [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3443">TS</a>]
00:57:27 ◼ ► and out come to find out there were eleven good Jillian videos waiting for me I just hadn't navigated away from the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3447">TS</a>]
00:57:35 ◼ ► video section yet. If you just look at any of the categories. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3455">TS</a>]
00:57:40 ◼ ► You know like pick an application will learn how to use better or pick a permanent widget you want to learn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3460">TS</a>]
00:57:45 ◼ ► and you can see like it's it's pretty pretty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3465">TS</a>]
00:57:49 ◼ ► Their pricing plan a certain life because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3469">TS</a>]
00:57:51 ◼ ► when you have a huge selection like that if you had to pay like even like a dollar video you'd worry like oh is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3471">TS</a>]
00:57:57 ◼ ► the right video out of the umpteen you know you like a pickle. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3477">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► Even it was just a dollar video you can spend all the time fretting this is a flat fee just like sit there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:05 ◼ ► and watch videos. It doesn't matter how many you watch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3485">TS</a>]
00:58:08 ◼ ► Exactly right so we put this off last week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3488">TS</a>]
00:58:12 ◼ ► and I think we should talk about it this week before it becomes so stale that it's not worth talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3492">TS</a>]
00:58:19 ◼ ► It seems like it's that time of year and it's that time of year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3499">TS</a>]
00:58:22 ◼ ► when everyone in the eye less development community says oh objectives he's objective see sucks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3502">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► and we really need to get over it we need to get away from it. We need to move on to something better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:34 ◼ ► And this was originally Well in my exposure originally posited by John's piece called Copeland twenty ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3514">TS</a>]
00:58:43 ◼ ► and I guess John would you like to describe simply what Copeland twenty ten was saying would can you summarize that for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3523">TS</a>]
00:58:51 ◼ ► us. Yeah I think I don't have a link in here but one that I read that two thousand and five or something. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3531">TS</a>]
00:58:58 ◼ ► It was a long time ago when it was before twenty two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3538">TS</a>]
00:59:01 ◼ ► and the point of my blog post was that I was I was worried about what Apple was going to do with its language in A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3541">TS</a>]
00:59:09 ◼ ► and Going forward because it seemed like all those competitors were moving to sort of memory manage higher level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3549">TS</a>]
00:59:14 ◼ ► languages and Apple was not they were sticking with the C. Base language Objective C. This is all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3554">TS</a>]
00:59:19 ◼ ► Yes two thousand and five this is all before the i Phone and for all the stuff or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3559">TS</a>]
00:59:23 ◼ ► And Copeland is a reference to one of Apple's many failed attempts to get a next generation operating system they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3563">TS</a>]
00:59:30 ◼ ► Which is a really old to go operating system where any application can write any part of memory including the parts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3570">TS</a>]
00:59:38 ◼ ► and so which meant that badly behaved app that started writing memory to a bad pointer would just scribble over random [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3578">TS</a>]
00:59:45 ◼ ► parts of memory and bring your whole machine down and that was just archaic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3585">TS</a>]
00:59:48 ◼ ► and everyone else was getting protected memory and pre-emptive multitasking where the O. S. Could take the C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3588">TS</a>]
00:59:53 ◼ ► Away from a process that wasn't true on the old mac operating system less the process yielded so it had these technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3593">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► So I could not figure out a way to get a next generation operating system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:04 ◼ ► and Copeland was the highest profile failure I have a book on my shelf to my right that Goebbels going to America was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3604">TS</a>]
01:00:10 ◼ ► eight and it's called Macca was a revealed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3610">TS</a>]
01:00:12 ◼ ► and it's a book published by Apple with an Apple logo from Apple Press describing the next generation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3612">TS</a>]
01:00:18 ◼ ► Frank Sesno will be macro S eight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3618">TS</a>]
01:00:19 ◼ ► and you know Copeland basically that operating system never shipped Apple cruise ship something called Magaw was eight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3619">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► There were other failed attempts and other weird partnerships and this is all the dark times of Apple's existence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:32 ◼ ► but the Copenhagen thing was me saying If Apple doesn't get its act together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3632">TS</a>]
01:00:37 ◼ ► and come up with whatever it's going to plan for its next generation programming language an A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3637">TS</a>]
01:00:42 ◼ ► You could find itself in the distant future like the year twenty ten you know our founding of two thousand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3642">TS</a>]
01:00:48 ◼ ► I've read artist Clark as a kid so crossing a point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3648">TS</a>]
01:00:51 ◼ ► and if they don't get their act together they could find themselves in a situation just like they were with Copeland [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3651">TS</a>]
01:00:55 ◼ ► where everyone else has something they don't have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3655">TS</a>]
01:00:58 ◼ ► and they don't have a viable plan to get it because it's not so easy to snap your fingers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3658">TS</a>]
01:01:01 ◼ ► and get a new modern language runtime and an A.P.I. To go with it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3661">TS</a>]
01:01:07 ◼ ► I also wrote another article in two thousand and ten called Coban Point Henry visitors explaining what I got wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3667">TS</a>]
01:01:13 ◼ ► and why about you know about people about the year twenty ten because people say Well here we aren't trying ten apples [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3673">TS</a>]
01:01:19 ◼ ► not having any problems because they don't have a memory and language an A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3679">TS</a>]
01:01:22 ◼ ► and There are lots of other reasons for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3682">TS</a>]
01:01:25 ◼ ► but in general the the major failings like any time you try to break if you just pick some round number in the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3685">TS</a>]
01:01:29 ◼ ► that seems so distance then really it's only five years away and that's just you know bad thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3689">TS</a>]
01:01:33 ◼ ► and economists take when trying to deal with the future. But anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3693">TS</a>]
01:01:37 ◼ ► OK so the comp topic came back up again and I'm not sure why it came back up again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3697">TS</a>]
01:01:41 ◼ ► and I'm not sure what people are saying about it's different than what's been said before maybe you can enlighten me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3701">TS</a>]
01:01:46 ◼ ► Well there were these two post there was one by one by Steve stress a little put in the show notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3706">TS</a>]
01:01:52 ◼ ► and basically with the you know just saying we have to see and with a few a few things that we need there. We better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3712">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► And then our friend Guy English wrote a post in response to these that basically said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:06 ◼ ► and forgive me if I'm butchering the argument that basically said like it's easy to like can we even say we need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3726">TS</a>]
01:02:11 ◼ ► something better. But we need more specifics like what exactly needs to be better and how would that work. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3731">TS</a>]
01:02:19 ◼ ► Like you know it's easy to just say oh well we need something that's higher level. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3739">TS</a>]
01:02:25 ◼ ► OK Well it does that mean garbage collection of that mean you know reference counting in a different way like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3745">TS</a>]
01:02:30 ◼ ► like that me in a dynamic type does that mean like all these all these decisions about higher level languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3750">TS</a>]
01:02:38 ◼ ► and it seems like not a lot of the arguments contain answers to questions like that it's just like oh we have to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3758">TS</a>]
01:02:44 ◼ ► something that's newer and that will by default be better which I think is itself a flawed argument. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3764">TS</a>]
01:02:52 ◼ ► Yeah it seems like you know it's tough because I have tremendous respect for for Ashley and for Steve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3772">TS</a>]
01:02:58 ◼ ► but it seemed very hand wavy and this argument tends to go around regularly in the West about in circles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3778">TS</a>]
01:03:06 ◼ ► and it seems like every year or two everyone gets all upset about the fact that we're still writing in Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3786">TS</a>]
01:03:14 ◼ ► but This is a problem that guy seemed to have and I concur with it is OK That's lovely that you think that Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3794">TS</a>]
01:03:22 ◼ ► Tell me what's bad about it or tell me why we need something new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3802">TS</a>]
01:03:27 ◼ ► and you know before our automatic reference counting and before Grand Central Dispatch in blocks. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3807">TS</a>]
01:03:34 ◼ ► I would have probably said the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3814">TS</a>]
01:03:37 ◼ ► and I probably would have said that you know not having closures in twenty twelve twenty thirteen that's a problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3817">TS</a>]
01:03:44 ◼ ► but I don't remember when blocks became a thing but it was I want to say twenty twelve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3824">TS</a>]
01:03:49 ◼ ► but so up until twenty four that I probably would have agreed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3829">TS</a>]
01:03:51 ◼ ► And in some way there were a couple of really big advancements really big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3831">TS</a>]
01:03:55 ◼ ► and important Vance events in the last couple years that I really think brought objective see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3835">TS</a>]
01:04:00 ◼ ► Two position where it's it's relatively modern in its arcane it's own archaic ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3840">TS</a>]
01:04:09 ◼ ► and so I don't I don't really see what's so terrible about it and I can sell you that cocoa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3849">TS</a>]
01:04:15 ◼ ► and cocoa touch which are the frameworks. They are they are unbelievably good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3855">TS</a>]
01:04:22 ◼ ► They're truly amazingly good and I love me some C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3862">TS</a>]
01:04:26 ◼ ► Sharp I really do but the done a frame work while very solid is nowhere near as good as Coco and Coco touch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3866">TS</a>]
01:04:32 ◼ ► and so I don't really see what the urgent burning need is to get rid of Jack to see that I have had the urgent burning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3872">TS</a>]
01:04:41 ◼ ► need to get rid of a victory in two thousand and five that I still feel and really what I was writing there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3881">TS</a>]
01:04:50 ◼ ► The audience that was not so much developers trying to tell them that the language they're using is bad or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3890">TS</a>]
01:04:56 ◼ ► and I think that by the time I was getting a little bit panicked about this whole part of it is kind of like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3896">TS</a>]
01:05:01 ◼ ► how someone who grew up in the depression is always panicked about money and worried about not having enough food [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3901">TS</a>]
01:05:07 ◼ ► If you live through the whole Copeland disaster obviously going to be a little bit more panicky about oh oh my god what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3907">TS</a>]
01:05:13 ◼ ► is what is Apple's plan for a Texan aeration whatever because I don't want to see that thing that I'm you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3913">TS</a>]
01:05:17 ◼ ► Apple today is so different in the apple than that it's a little bit ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3917">TS</a>]
01:05:19 ◼ ► but a lot of that is that's where that's coming from someone who experience there that you know a company that they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3919">TS</a>]
01:05:25 ◼ ► mired in thought should be successful almost die because they failed to think about stuff like that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3925">TS</a>]
01:05:30 ◼ ► but as the years pass I don't get more relaxed about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3930">TS</a>]
01:05:34 ◼ ► Just you know if I continue to worry about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3934">TS</a>]
01:05:36 ◼ ► and my point would be like if I was in charge of Apple I would have had starting and like starting basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3936">TS</a>]
01:05:43 ◼ ► when javac say you do it or totally asleep at the wheel and Java comes on the scene. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3943">TS</a>]
01:05:47 ◼ ► I would have had multiple teams multiple small teams of the fanciest you know computer science Ph D. Whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3947">TS</a>]
01:05:56 ◼ ► Maybe these teams don't know about each other maybe they're on different continents you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3956">TS</a>]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Whatever working on the next generation language runtime an A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3960">TS</a>]
01:06:05 ◼ ► All those things and most of those teams I imagine would fail and produce nothing useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3965">TS</a>]
01:06:09 ◼ ► but you know you're Apple you have all this money the empire the modern apple budget you know like maybe maybe the old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3969">TS</a>]
01:06:15 ◼ ► Apple could only afford one or two teams of the few people who aren't that good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3975">TS</a>]
01:06:17 ◼ ► But at this point Apple could have ten teams with you know the ten best people money can buy all working on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3977">TS</a>]
01:06:23 ◼ ► and the reason I bring this up is not so much. We need to replace Objective C. Next year. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3983">TS</a>]
01:06:27 ◼ ► W W C twenty sixteen Apple doesn't replace coke or Objective C. They're doomed Of course not right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3987">TS</a>]
01:06:32 ◼ ► It's because doing this making a new language and A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3992">TS</a>]
01:06:36 ◼ ► It's so incredibly difficult and takes so long to wring out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3996">TS</a>]
01:06:39 ◼ ► and you have to bring it out not just in these little these little labs in these competing teams [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/3999">TS</a>]
01:06:43 ◼ ► but then you actually have to build real absolute Didn't you have to sort of like it's just so hard to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4003">TS</a>]
01:06:47 ◼ ► transition so hard to make it harder to make the language and on time people focus on the language and runtime so much. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4007">TS</a>]
01:06:55 ◼ ► But that's kind of like you know that's mostly just picking from you know what do you want what features do you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4015">TS</a>]
01:07:00 ◼ ► and they can do experiments that making the A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4020">TS</a>]
01:07:02 ◼ ► That matches up with the language because I've always said that you can't just have a new language you have to have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4022">TS</a>]
01:07:07 ◼ ► and Languishing with it and cocoa has been in development basically since like the eighty's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4027">TS</a>]
01:07:11 ◼ ► and it's taken that long for a cover to get from where it was in the eighty's to where it is now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4031">TS</a>]
01:07:15 ◼ ► So assume whatever thing you're going to make to replace cocoa is going to take at least as long to get at least as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4035">TS</a>]
01:07:21 ◼ ► good you know in terms of rail routes you know. So you're not going to jump from OK Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4041">TS</a>]
01:07:26 ◼ ► Is done everyone try this new language in this new A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4046">TS</a>]
01:07:30 ◼ ► and It will be better than Coakley it won't be out of the good will be worse in the beginning just like it was ten was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4050">TS</a>]
01:07:34 ◼ ► worse think like a classic macro as in almost every respect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4054">TS</a>]
01:07:38 ◼ ► For years you know and it took years to develop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4058">TS</a>]
01:07:41 ◼ ► and it was false starts with the whole Rhapsody project every like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4061">TS</a>]
01:07:44 ◼ ► I know how long it takes to do this I know how badly wrong you can go I mean like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4064">TS</a>]
01:07:49 ◼ ► Think of every other company that's tried to do this even Microsoft C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4069">TS</a>]
01:07:53 ◼ ► and a common language runtime which I would say is the biggest success story hasn't been a clean win in terms of getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4073">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► All you know now when sixty four if you want to call that all of the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:03 ◼ ► and that also took years to be adopted widely for developers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4083">TS</a>]
01:08:06 ◼ ► Yeah and it just and they put tons of money and tons of like you know you can't wait you can't say like Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4086">TS</a>]
01:08:13 ◼ ► Is fine now it's going to be fine for five years therefore we need to do nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4093">TS</a>]
01:08:16 ◼ ► Assume that it's going to take you ten fifteen years to get this crap figured out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4096">TS</a>]
01:08:20 ◼ ► and assume you're going to fail a couple times before you do because I think those are safe bets. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4100">TS</a>]
01:08:24 ◼ ► Someone in the chat room posted oh maybe to Apple's is holding its cards close to his vest. That's entirely possible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4104">TS</a>]
01:08:30 ◼ ► As with anything in Apple you have no idea what the hell is going on over there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4110">TS</a>]
01:08:34 ◼ ► or people who they kill after their three years are up of they don't produce something and they hide the bodies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4114">TS</a>]
01:08:39 ◼ ► and we have no idea what's going on. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4119">TS</a>]
01:08:41 ◼ ► That's where I'm coming from with this not so much from the perspective of like I'm developing today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4121">TS</a>]
01:08:45 ◼ ► and I think this is ridiculous I do think a lot of stuff is ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4125">TS</a>]
01:08:48 ◼ ► but I feel like I understand how incredibly hard it's going to be to make something that's better than this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4128">TS</a>]
01:08:54 ◼ ► and the second part of this is I think a lot of people don't want to sign up for a maybe is not relevant to them is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4134">TS</a>]
01:09:01 ◼ ► and I think a lot of people are either are of the opinion that this day will not come in their lifetime which may be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4141">TS</a>]
01:09:07 ◼ ► very safe bet in which case you know they feel justified in saying look I'll be dead or retired [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4147">TS</a>]
01:09:11 ◼ ► when this happened so I don't have to worry about it so it's not on my radar at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4151">TS</a>]
01:09:14 ◼ ► And how it may be the current leaders of apple think I'll be dead or retired but on this happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4154">TS</a>]
01:09:19 ◼ ► but I'm I'm thinking longer term. Like yes I am I and everyone know I'm going to die. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4159">TS</a>]
01:09:25 ◼ ► But if Apple wants to live on our as humans want to live on there will come a day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4165">TS</a>]
01:09:28 ◼ ► when it isn't acceptable to have a pointer that you can scribble all over the memory. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4168">TS</a>]
01:09:32 ◼ ► Yes just of your own memory of your own process Sure but that's barbaric. That's going away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4172">TS</a>]
01:09:37 ◼ ► We all agree it's going away it's just a question of the timing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4177">TS</a>]
01:09:39 ◼ ► and a lot of people think well the timing is not in my lifetime therefore I don't care about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4179">TS</a>]
01:09:44 ◼ ► but someone's gotta care about otherwise Apple's going away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4184">TS</a>]
01:09:46 ◼ ► and if you don't care about who goes away you know then fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4186">TS</a>]
01:09:49 ◼ ► but someone an apple presumably should care about Bill goes away even if they're retired Well I don't know maybe maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4189">TS</a>]
01:09:55 ◼ ► I'm thinking too long term maybe this is not how human beings think and I just have to accept that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4195">TS</a>]
01:10:00 ◼ ► Apple's going to go under in seventy five years because they're never going to get away from Jack to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4200">TS</a>]
01:10:04 ◼ ► and someone else is going to replace them and that's the way of the world and I should just be OK with that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4204">TS</a>]
01:10:07 ◼ ► But that's where I'm coming from with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4207">TS</a>]
01:10:10 ◼ ► and that's why I think calls for like what specifically do you want to whatever as many people pointed out that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4210">TS</a>]
01:10:14 ◼ ► Apple's supposed to figure out it's not our job to come up with Apple's next generation language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4214">TS</a>]
01:10:18 ◼ ► or our time it's their job and how do they do it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4218">TS</a>]
01:10:21 ◼ ► It's going to take on a whole bunch of tribes and it's going to be really hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4221">TS</a>]
01:10:23 ◼ ► and they should have been started working on it two decades ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4223">TS</a>]
01:10:25 ◼ ► when it was obvious that this is the way that the world is going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4225">TS</a>]
01:10:28 ◼ ► and it should have always been obvious is the way it always goes to higher level languages so that's what I'm fretting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4228">TS</a>]
01:10:33 ◼ ► about and it's kind of an esoteric concern that no one really cares about but the rank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4233">TS</a>]
01:10:37 ◼ ► and file people have to Jill exactly see every day they see what other languages are like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4237">TS</a>]
01:10:42 ◼ ► and those other languages have peakers that everyone agrees are good that they wish they had an Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4242">TS</a>]
01:10:47 ◼ ► and It's like well you can't just have that feature you can just have the you know the native regular expressions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4247">TS</a>]
01:10:53 ◼ ► or nicer strings or you know memory protection action you know management Imrie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4253">TS</a>]
01:10:58 ◼ ► and not having pointers of I guess you can just pack them on right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4258">TS</a>]
01:11:03 ◼ ► That's what they see them in other language they see them in contemporary languages that are doing similar things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4263">TS</a>]
01:11:08 ◼ ► and they say well everyone agrees that's good why did I have that here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4268">TS</a>]
01:11:11 ◼ ► And that kind of discomfort is maybe how this type of stuff begins [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4271">TS</a>]
01:11:15 ◼ ► but this is not something you can begin from the outside it can be a bunch of developers complaining about Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4275">TS</a>]
01:11:20 ◼ ► They can't be developers leaving the platform because they don't like to see it wasn't going to happen as long as they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4280">TS</a>]
01:11:24 ◼ ► continue to sell apps. It has to be from within. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4284">TS</a>]
01:11:26 ◼ ► So this is something that Apple needs to undertake and that's always been my my thrust with the whole Copeland point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4286">TS</a>]
01:11:31 ◼ ► and thing it's not telling developers what to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4291">TS</a>]
01:11:34 ◼ ► It's trying to tell Apple what to do and we know how successful that usually is right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4294">TS</a>]
01:11:38 ◼ ► but the problem is is that as someone who has a leg in two worlds there are definitely things about Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4298">TS</a>]
01:11:45 ◼ ► In cocoa that I that I wish I had when I do my day job of writing C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4305">TS</a>]
01:11:50 ◼ ► Sharp like Grand Central Dispatch is a great example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4310">TS</a>]
01:11:53 ◼ ► It is unbelievably easy to just throw things on to random cues and to throw. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4313">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Things on to the main thread without even having to think twice about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:03 ◼ ► and you'll see sharp has gotten better with that over the years but Apple did a great job. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4323">TS</a>]
01:12:08 ◼ ► Now granted the syntax is unbelievably bad and there is an entire website whose U.R.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4328">TS</a>]
01:12:15 ◼ ► I can't mention without having a horn go off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:18 ◼ ► but there's an entire website based on the syntax for how to write a blog how to write blocks properly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4338">TS</a>]
01:12:24 ◼ ► And that's probably not a good sign but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4344">TS</a>]
01:12:27 ◼ ► but nevertheless there are things about Cocoa this antiquated language that we all want to throw away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4347">TS</a>]
01:12:35 ◼ ► but there's things about object of seeing cocoa as a as a pair that is supposedly science equated that I would love to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4355">TS</a>]
01:12:44 ◼ ► and It doesn't mean that you're wrong John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4364">TS</a>]
01:12:47 ◼ ► but I don't see the urgency that perhaps a lot of other people see I concur that it needs to be being worked on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4367">TS</a>]
01:12:56 ◼ ► but I don't know that we are at the day where they need to flip the switch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4376">TS</a>]
01:13:00 ◼ ► and then I don't think you're saying that either but it seems like it's still a little bit down the road to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4380">TS</a>]
01:13:06 ◼ ► As long as there's continued improvements to both cocoa and Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4386">TS</a>]
01:13:14 ◼ ► Which there are well like the urgent they should be at Apple and I understand for enterprise N.T. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4394">TS</a>]
01:13:18 ◼ ► Pattern they're defending against is if you spend all your time worrying about your stupid next generation thing then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4398">TS</a>]
01:13:23 ◼ ► you take your eye off the ball which is people making Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4403">TS</a>]
01:13:26 ◼ ► Better people working on KOGO like Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4406">TS</a>]
01:13:27 ◼ ► or so about focus I can fully understand though that's that's a sucker's bet you'd not want to spend all your time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4407">TS</a>]
01:13:32 ◼ ► coming up with these crazy new A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4412">TS</a>]
01:13:34 ◼ ► These crazy new languages you're taking your eye off the ball you should be making the product that you have now better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4414">TS</a>]
01:13:39 ◼ ► like what they're doing with object is the an el of the EM like us exactly what they're supposed to be doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4419">TS</a>]
01:13:43 ◼ ► and any effort they spend so they might think any effort they expend on like what is the next generation pie in the sky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4423">TS</a>]
01:13:49 ◼ ► architecture astronaut crappy thing that we're doing that is just like that's not in our D.N.A. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4429">TS</a>]
01:13:54 ◼ ► We don't worry about that or whatever. And I understand the urge not to fall into that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4434">TS</a>]
01:14:00 ◼ ► But the other trap is we will never have to do that we will get there by increment starting from C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4440">TS</a>]
01:14:06 ◼ ► Pointers forever until we don't and that will somehow make that transition like. How do you get from point A to Point B. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4446">TS</a>]
01:14:11 ◼ ► Like it's kind of like what they tried to do with the classic macro us Copeland was like we can try to keep kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4451">TS</a>]
01:14:16 ◼ ► some kind of compatibility and old style mac apps will be able to scribble all over memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4456">TS</a>]
01:14:21 ◼ ► but will make these new style absolute run on this new kernel that are protected from each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4461">TS</a>]
01:14:26 ◼ ► and eventually all the old Absolute go away I'll be able to translate it was an idea to transition into protected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4466">TS</a>]
01:14:32 ◼ ► and pre-emptive multitasking maintaining backward compatibility with existing classic apps by allowing them to still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4472">TS</a>]
01:14:39 ◼ ► But just like the device drivers and new apps wouldn't like it was it was a hybrid type incremental solution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4479">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► and it's not to say they can pull off because it was incremental is just to say that it I think history has shown that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:51 ◼ ► the thing that the next generation thing will be very different from the previous thing it won't be the previous thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4491">TS</a>]
01:14:59 ◼ ► just improved in small increments. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4499">TS</a>]
01:15:00 ◼ ► It will be something entirely very often something entirely different from a different company which is not what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4500">TS</a>]
01:15:04 ◼ ► want. Apple managed to do it to itself by saying Well sort of like we sent our C.E.O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4504">TS</a>]
01:15:08 ◼ ► Away and I did a five and he made another company and he made no new O.S.'s and we're just going to bring that back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4508">TS</a>]
01:15:14 ◼ ► and that's our newest convenient that was all secret plan all along he says. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4514">TS</a>]
01:15:17 ◼ ► Very clever anyway it was a complete replacement. Like people jacked it on Twitter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4517">TS</a>]
01:15:21 ◼ ► I was citing like I was ten as a complete rewrite of the mac operating system from the perspective of the app it is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4521">TS</a>]
01:15:28 ◼ ► different operating system it has a compatibility layer that was you know you know virtualize for Classic apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4528">TS</a>]
01:15:34 ◼ ► and everybody but holy cow is it different than Classic MacOS Unix for crying out loud. So incredibly different. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4534">TS</a>]
01:15:39 ◼ ► I know that was the thing that was the thing that worked right there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4539">TS</a>]
01:15:44 ◼ ► and most often the thing that replaces it was radically different and also from a different company. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4544">TS</a>]
01:15:48 ◼ ► So Apple doesn't want that to happen if they don't want the next thing to be radically different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4548">TS</a>]
01:15:52 ◼ ► and also for a different company. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4552">TS</a>]
01:15:53 ◼ ► They need to balance their desire not to take their eyes off the current ball which I agree with with the reality of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4553">TS</a>]
01:15:59 ◼ ► that. Like eventually got to come. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4559">TS</a>]
01:16:02 ◼ ► You got to where we are away from pointers not this year not this decade like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4562">TS</a>]
01:16:05 ◼ ► but it's like whenever you think it is in the future I don't think I've never met anyone who says no pointers are going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4565">TS</a>]
01:16:09 ◼ ► to be forever seven thousand years from now he'll be writing programs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4569">TS</a>]
01:16:12 ◼ ► and if they DRAM is a bad pointer they're going to scramble her memory like that if you're not going to have them write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4572">TS</a>]
01:16:17 ◼ ► an apple begun then it is not like I guess it just depends on what time horizon you consider fruitful to think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4577">TS</a>]
01:16:24 ◼ ► and I'm thinking about time horizons that I myself would have to say are perhaps not for me for me to be thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4584">TS</a>]
01:16:30 ◼ ► but that's that's those are the type of things I think about I think someone an apple somewhere should be high minded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4590">TS</a>]
01:16:35 ◼ ► enough to realize this is a concern and to start doing something to help that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4595">TS</a>]
01:16:42 ◼ ► See I'm I'm a lot less convinced that this is inevitable that that a progression like this has to happen even within a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4602">TS</a>]
01:16:50 ◼ ► time span of like you know twenty years thirty years about two hundred three hundred pick your time scale everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4610">TS</a>]
01:16:55 ◼ ► agrees is going to happen right. Well sure but you know I think so he does argue over the number that's it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4615">TS</a>]
01:17:02 ◼ ► I think Objective C. Monetarist of C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4622">TS</a>]
01:17:06 ◼ ► and The tools that we have for it have are so much more advanced than where it was five or ten years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4626">TS</a>]
01:17:14 ◼ ► and you know I think that we I don't think modern Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4634">TS</a>]
01:17:19 ◼ ► Is as far away from what people want as they think when they write a blog post like this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4639">TS</a>]
01:17:24 ◼ ► Like if you look at a lot of the complaints are a lot of thing people say it needs a lot of them are our A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4644">TS</a>]
01:17:29 ◼ ► Is not part of the language a lot of them are like really fairly minor cosmetic details almost And you know a lot of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4649">TS</a>]
01:17:38 ◼ ► and you know looking at looking at the history of programming languages there's there's this assumption that you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4658">TS</a>]
01:17:44 ◼ ► said that most of these posts are based on which is that everything always moves higher higher level higher you know as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4664">TS</a>]
01:17:49 ◼ ► time goes on but that's not necessarily true. Stuff moves higher level at the beginning. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4669">TS</a>]
01:17:55 ◼ ► It's true with bumps obviously it's not a straight line but it's true. The trend line. Sure. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4675">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► There are certain things the kind of settle in and become and become kind a locked in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:04 ◼ ► and I think one of the one of the greatest examples of this is see you know see has has been around for ever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4684">TS</a>]
01:18:12 ◼ ► Is no part of it is new except blocks and it you know no part of that in general use is is really that modern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4692">TS</a>]
01:18:21 ◼ ► and yet it's been around forever and it's everywhere and any and every language usually languages are written in C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4701">TS</a>]
01:18:29 ◼ ► Usually you know languages have tons of C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4709">TS</a>]
01:18:31 ◼ ► Modules that can be added on anything that high performance is required is usually written in C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4711">TS</a>]
01:18:37 ◼ ► You know there is I would not historically I would not bet against C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4717">TS</a>]
01:18:41 ◼ ► but but You have to you know it's going like it's not going to go away the same with some wouldn't go away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4721">TS</a>]
01:18:45 ◼ ► and tell you the machine go didn't go away like people running game console someone's writing some hexadecimal numbers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4725">TS</a>]
01:18:50 ◼ ► then Norma Jean got right by and saw me feel like a layer cake but C. Will lose its primacy eventual E. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4730">TS</a>]
01:18:56 ◼ ► The same way assembly lost its primacy is the way you program computers the same way the machine code it sees as having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4736">TS</a>]
01:19:01 ◼ ► a much longer life than a C. Had a longer life in assembly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4741">TS</a>]
01:19:04 ◼ ► I'd have to look at the numbers to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4744">TS</a>]
01:19:05 ◼ ► but certainly assembly had a longer life than writing machine go because it was so incredibly unfriendly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4745">TS</a>]
01:19:11 ◼ ► but like all you're arguing about a timescale you think like oh this is a long plateau you're right it is along the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4751">TS</a>]
01:19:16 ◼ ► plateau how long it'll plateau going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4756">TS</a>]
01:19:18 ◼ ► but I think the the systems that we have now that do use higher level languages are out there enough to sow a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4758">TS</a>]
01:19:25 ◼ ► discontent even then just the regular rank and file people who find it like so much less verbose. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4765">TS</a>]
01:19:31 ◼ ► Like the sort of the same operation done in a higher level language like Python or Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4771">TS</a>]
01:19:34 ◼ ► or something like Boy after so much less typing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4774">TS</a>]
01:19:37 ◼ ► and it's so much more clear what I'm doing it's just is just more concise it's a higher level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4777">TS</a>]
01:19:42 ◼ ► and I can do more with less typing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4782">TS</a>]
01:19:44 ◼ ► I could be more clear with my intent that even things like go where you know implicit parallelism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4784">TS</a>]
01:19:50 ◼ ► and other other abstractions that allow you to express yourself in a way that would not be possible in C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4790">TS</a>]
01:19:57 ◼ ► Even in a language that's not particularly hard. Evelyn see because go is very similar to C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4797">TS</a>]
01:20:02 ◼ ► but With like better libraries and buildings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4802">TS</a>]
01:20:03 ◼ ► and stuff like that because of all the existing high level languages that people do other kinds of development [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4803">TS</a>]
01:20:08 ◼ ► and it allows them to see what the future might look like even if we're not quite ready for it today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4808">TS</a>]
01:20:14 ◼ ► and I think that's I mean that's that's the beginning of the writing on the wall for C.B.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4814">TS</a>]
01:20:19 ◼ ► Languages and you know you say I wouldn't bet against sea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4819">TS</a>]
01:20:21 ◼ ► and it's locked in like those are all relative terms like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4821">TS</a>]
01:20:26 ◼ ► and I start throwing out big year numbers eventually you agree with me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4826">TS</a>]
01:20:30 ◼ ► But like you don't want to read them in any year number that you can envision either being alive during or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4830">TS</a>]
01:20:35 ◼ ► or in vision like anyone you know being alive during And that's maybe that's just human nature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4835">TS</a>]
01:20:39 ◼ ► but like everything just depends on what the time scale looks like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4839">TS</a>]
01:20:44 ◼ ► and their discontinuity is where suddenly you make a great leap forward because some reason because you know an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4844">TS</a>]
01:20:48 ◼ ► earthquake wiped out Apple and Google and some new company has to rise from the ashes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4848">TS</a>]
01:20:51 ◼ ► and it bases everything on Erling or something and we enter the new Erling age [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4851">TS</a>]
01:20:55 ◼ ► or I'm trying to think of a crazy language but I think your or your desire not to think about anything beyond C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4855">TS</a>]
01:21:04 ◼ ► May be well founded because for your entire career you'll never have to think about that but your grandkids probably. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4864">TS</a>]
01:21:10 ◼ ► and I think I totally agree that given a long enough time scale you're right that given a longer time scale this will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4870">TS</a>]
01:21:19 ◼ ► but I think that I think it's pretty likely that by the time that happens Apple might not be that relevant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4879">TS</a>]
01:21:27 ◼ ► or we might not be running the same or less even you know like well they don't listen to me of course they're right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4887">TS</a>]
01:21:33 ◼ ► Like you know I think you know there's a lot of things that that keep Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4893">TS</a>]
01:21:39 ◼ ► As it is in power you know and part of it is you know that there's the whole tool chain that kind of requires And [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4899">TS</a>]
01:21:46 ◼ ► but even know the reasons why things that are compiled down to get to see various toolkits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4906">TS</a>]
01:21:51 ◼ ► and stuff haven't really been huge is mostly because you know here to see as I said before it's it's close enough in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4911">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► What people actually want and you know you can say oh look the brackets are ugly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:05 ◼ ► and you know that's mostly people who are unfamiliar with it who say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4925">TS</a>]
01:22:08 ◼ ► and then once they get familiar with it it just as mattering because you know every language look we have been familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4928">TS</a>]
01:22:15 ◼ ► and I think so I think it's close enough to a lot of what people want I think a lot of the alternatives are not clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4935">TS</a>]
01:22:23 ◼ ► cut like if if you say OK well you shouldn't even to think about memory ever again OK well then you know which memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4943">TS</a>]
01:22:28 ◼ ► management model do you pick and then that's not an easy question. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4948">TS</a>]
01:22:32 ◼ ► You know the question of types and how they are implemented that's not an easy question. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4952">TS</a>]
01:22:37 ◼ ► But also we've got this this great like reset with the rise of mobile where efficiency is certainly a lot more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4957">TS</a>]
01:22:45 ◼ ► important than it was in two thousand five thousand five your billion desktop app. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4965">TS</a>]
01:22:51 ◼ ► You know then the new C.P.U.'s are so powerful back then for desktop apps for most types of use that you could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4971">TS</a>]
01:22:57 ◼ ► anything with the language you have a language having tons of overhead and tons of dynamic safety stuff and it be fine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4977">TS</a>]
01:23:03 ◼ ► Whereas in Mobile that was a great reset and obviously mobiles getting faster it will it will keep getting faster. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4983">TS</a>]
01:23:10 ◼ ► And you know eventually this will this will become a lot less of an advantage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4990">TS</a>]
01:23:14 ◼ ► but it sure has helped Iowa so far that most of the after people use are written and a very little of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/4994">TS</a>]
01:23:22 ◼ ► or these are compiled down to a very low level language so that they have a lot less overhead than say Android apps you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5002">TS</a>]
01:23:29 ◼ ► know and there's different things like just in time comp compilation that have been very advanced in recent years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5009">TS</a>]
01:23:37 ◼ ► Based language that is mostly static and fast has a lot of advantages in Mobile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5017">TS</a>]
01:23:44 ◼ ► and what's different in mobile is that the power budget is so much tighter that it actually matters not only for speed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5024">TS</a>]
01:23:51 ◼ ► or for battery life and so this will continue to matter for a while and you're right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5031">TS</a>]
01:23:57 ◼ ► Eventually it will over a longer time scale but. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5037">TS</a>]
01:24:00 ◼ ► I think I'd say we probably have a good ten years at least where this will continue to matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5040">TS</a>]
01:24:05 ◼ ► and where it would be unwise sticking around numbers I think we have another seven point two years. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5045">TS</a>]
01:24:11 ◼ ► Yeah I know I know it's the same thing and they're trying to end the revisited article I felt like in two thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5051">TS</a>]
01:24:16 ◼ ► and five when I didn't see coming two thousand and five was you know the i Phone I mean who did right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5056">TS</a>]
01:24:20 ◼ ► But like the prominence of Mobile right and that I wouldn't call it a reset. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5060">TS</a>]
01:24:24 ◼ ► It's a delay and if it could be a massive laughing at what I said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5064">TS</a>]
01:24:27 ◼ ► and I read it as an article I give that a twenty year delay it adds at least a decade you know because yeah all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5067">TS</a>]
01:24:32 ◼ ► things you Senator with mobile being low level such a massive advantage in mobile like that why Apple was able to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5072">TS</a>]
01:24:39 ◼ ► this type of evidence of the i Phone was fake because you know you can't do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5079">TS</a>]
01:24:42 ◼ ► They were like the java apps that are running on the stupid smartphones then there's no way you could just I got a nose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5082">TS</a>]
01:24:47 ◼ ► job like you would you need to have a crazy desktop powered C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5087">TS</a>]
01:24:50 ◼ ► In there well if you have a language that's more efficient than Java on your phone you can do pretty amazing stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5090">TS</a>]
01:24:55 ◼ ► and yet so this this is been an advantage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5095">TS</a>]
01:24:58 ◼ ► and it's a sustainable advantage in Apple's investing in that advantage in making Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5098">TS</a>]
01:25:02 ◼ ► Better in everything so I don't know how long that delays things that delays things for a long time you're right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5102">TS</a>]
01:25:07 ◼ ► But on the other side of the like yeah it's going to happen eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5107">TS</a>]
01:25:11 ◼ ► but not in my lifetime I always think about like it we're just talking about whatsapp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5111">TS</a>]
01:25:15 ◼ ► or think about any you know think about My Space. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5115">TS</a>]
01:25:18 ◼ ► Things move faster and industry than than most of us are comfortable with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5118">TS</a>]
01:25:23 ◼ ► Like even just reflecting I was every time I see like the timeline of something that like oh this happened a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5123">TS</a>]
01:25:31 ◼ ► and four like you know before Facebook even existed how many years ago how old it is Facebook even how old is Instagram [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5131">TS</a>]
01:25:37 ◼ ► all this Twitter like all these things to be accepted institutions how old is whatsapp that just cost sixteen billion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5137">TS</a>]
01:25:43 ◼ ► dollars like in some respects things have a lot of momentum [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5143">TS</a>]
01:25:47 ◼ ► and mobiles going to going to keep us to keep Apple's advantage of actressy relevant for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5147">TS</a>]
01:25:53 ◼ ► but in other respects that's what I'm about discontinuity like the graph is not smooth as long plateaus for nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5153">TS</a>]
01:26:00 ◼ ► There's a big spike we're crazing strange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5160">TS</a>]
01:26:02 ◼ ► and you never know what's coming down the pike so it could be that we are all stuck with C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5162">TS</a>]
01:26:06 ◼ ► Based languages for our entire lives and careers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5166">TS</a>]
01:26:10 ◼ ► But it could be that twenty years from now something dramatic happens that we didn't predict [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5170">TS</a>]
01:26:16 ◼ ► and suddenly all sea based languages are swept under the carpet because big mazing new company that is becoming to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5176">TS</a>]
01:26:22 ◼ ► prominence uses a language at super high level that everybody loves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5182">TS</a>]
01:26:25 ◼ ► and everyone looks down at the barbaric people flinging pointers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5185">TS</a>]
01:26:29 ◼ ► and relegates them to writing device drivers for whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5189">TS</a>]
01:26:34 ◼ ► Well you know I was really upset at Marco because I was going to make the same plucking Tapout mobile kind of resetting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5194">TS</a>]
01:26:40 ◼ ► everything already made of the revisited article on twenty eight Then I now I know well OK some of Sapper did it first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5200">TS</a>]
01:26:45 ◼ ► time but set it both of you then but the other thing to consider is if this suppose it I watch is really a thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5205">TS</a>]
01:26:52 ◼ ► I mean that that kind of does this whole being near the metal It makes being near the metal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5212">TS</a>]
01:27:00 ◼ ► and a huge advantage all over again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5220">TS</a>]
01:27:02 ◼ ► Well I think the power constraints of the watch are that much different than a phone. I mean probably like two X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5222">TS</a>]
01:27:09 ◼ ► but Maybe not ten X. Less I don't know your but do you think you do you think you're being. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5229">TS</a>]
01:27:13 ◼ ► You'd be in a position that running a just in time compiled or or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5233">TS</a>]
01:27:18 ◼ ► or a Common Language Runtime kind of set up is really going to be a good call on a watch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5238">TS</a>]
01:27:24 ◼ ► I don't think it's as big a delay as going from a laptop or a desktop to a phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5244">TS</a>]
01:27:30 ◼ ► Think there's a smaller jump going from a phone to a wearable that's probably true. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5250">TS</a>]
01:27:34 ◼ ► But yeah like you are they continuing the continuation of mobile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5254">TS</a>]
01:27:38 ◼ ► and battery powered stuff is going to be a substantial delay in making any kind of high level language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5258">TS</a>]
01:27:42 ◼ ► and may end up being a disadvantage to anybody who doesn't have a C. Based language but it already is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5262">TS</a>]
01:27:47 ◼ ► Talk to talk to the windows so I mean it's hard to say because it's again it's kind of like the you know working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5267">TS</a>]
01:27:55 ◼ ► backwards from successes like well the i Phone is so awesome. And yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5275">TS</a>]
01:28:00 ◼ ► I could've existed probably without this type of language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5280">TS</a>]
01:28:02 ◼ ► but if Microsoft had not been so incompetent its mobile strategy and had come up with an O. S. Like you know I O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5282">TS</a>]
01:28:10 ◼ ► Us years before the i Phone using C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5290">TS</a>]
01:28:13 ◼ ► Sharp it would have had terrible performance and been like everywhere to look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5293">TS</a>]
01:28:19 ◼ ► and said Why the hell are you doing this you're making everything so slow C.P.U.'s can't handle this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5299">TS</a>]
01:28:23 ◼ ► There's no mobile G.P.U. They can sling as many pixels it's embarrassing and it would've reminded me of O S ten. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5303">TS</a>]
01:28:28 ◼ ► All that was one hundred percent true voice ten ten point no a composite of gooey running on the C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5308">TS</a>]
01:28:34 ◼ ► It was slow as balls you couldn't even scroll windows full of Texas like this is your next generation operating system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5314">TS</a>]
01:28:39 ◼ ► I can scroll a window full of text without it stuttering forget it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5319">TS</a>]
01:28:43 ◼ ► and Apple's like no no no we think this is the right way to do things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5323">TS</a>]
01:28:46 ◼ ► Eventually the heart will catch up and it did so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5326">TS</a>]
01:28:49 ◼ ► If Microsoft had had fielded you know sort of Windows Phone seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5329">TS</a>]
01:28:53 ◼ ► or of the whole number there up to way back in the day or done something like i O. S. On C. Shop and it was slow. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5333">TS</a>]
01:28:58 ◼ ► That may have you know and they became successful they became you know the i Phone because they did it first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5338">TS</a>]
01:29:03 ◼ ► and they got in and they made this amazing product and you know eventually got good enough. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5343">TS</a>]
01:29:08 ◼ ► And Apple was like the you know Johnny come lately. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5348">TS</a>]
01:29:11 ◼ ► You wouldn't be able to make the argument that like oh well the only way you can do this type of thing is with a low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5351">TS</a>]
01:29:15 ◼ ► level language. I think something like C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5355">TS</a>]
01:29:18 ◼ ► Sharp in the common ground time now are good enough to make something kind of fast on a phone probably would've taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5358">TS</a>]
01:29:25 ◼ ► longer to be as fast as the i Phone is and it would have been as good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5365">TS</a>]
01:29:28 ◼ ► but who wouldn't have the i Phone to compare it to so we would be like oh this is good as it can possibly be like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5368">TS</a>]
01:29:33 ◼ ► That's what I like the whole the whole idea that the way things currently are going where they could possibly be a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5373">TS</a>]
01:29:38 ◼ ► very big objection to that and it's human nature to just assume that's the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5378">TS</a>]
01:29:43 ◼ ► So while I think that objective has been such a big advantage to Apple I don't think you say well you can never have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5383">TS</a>]
01:29:48 ◼ ► phone type device with C. Shop because the shop is not that slow no slower. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5388">TS</a>]
01:29:54 ◼ ► You know but like I mean how people can do amazing things with stupid javascript just crazy lately. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5394">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► We have those classic mac emulators and stuff inside a browser window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:03 ◼ ► and javascript are about a slow language is not designed to be fast at all so I'm I'm not convinced that that Objective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5403">TS</a>]
01:30:11 ◼ ► Is the only way that we could have a i Phone like devices in our lifetime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5411">TS</a>]
01:30:14 ◼ ► and I think even the current state of Windows Phone which as I know uses code that you know Concord native code to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5414">TS</a>]
01:30:20 ◼ ► with things that have to actually be fastened same thing with Android with its native code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5420">TS</a>]
01:30:23 ◼ ► and I understand all these these things that they have to do to be faster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5423">TS</a>]
01:30:27 ◼ ► but I don't think the shop is necessary to have you know smartphones for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5427">TS</a>]
01:30:32 ◼ ► or objective third a smartphone right out of the game is making that argument. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5432">TS</a>]
01:30:36 ◼ ► I think it's more that you know if you if you can have something that's this fast in this efficient it's an advantage. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5436">TS</a>]
01:30:42 ◼ ► It's not a requirement but it's an advantage for sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5442">TS</a>]
01:30:44 ◼ ► and as time goes on it becomes less of an advantage proportionally but still you know it still is significant now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5444">TS</a>]
01:30:51 ◼ ► and you know again I just think like you know Casey even knew you were very qualified to talk about dot net You know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5451">TS</a>]
01:30:59 ◼ ► and that's I would I would say like C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5459">TS</a>]
01:31:01 ◼ ► Sharp in that framework are very good example of the kind of thing that would that we might be moving towards although [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5461">TS</a>]
01:31:07 ◼ ► we probably go you know hopefully another evolutionary step to that's now you know fifteen years old or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5467">TS</a>]
01:31:12 ◼ ► but you know based on what you know with dot net [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5472">TS</a>]
01:31:16 ◼ ► and what you know with with modern literacy development are they really like is Dot Net really that much easier to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5476">TS</a>]
01:31:26 ◼ ► If you had asked me a year or two ago maybe two three years ago actually I would've said yes it is considerably easier. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5486">TS</a>]
01:31:32 ◼ ► Ref counting is not that conceptually difficult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5492">TS</a>]
01:31:35 ◼ ► but it's still a lot hell of a lot more difficult than just writing the new keyword all over the place. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5495">TS</a>]
01:31:42 ◼ ► But given the advantage the advances of are given the advances of having closures in Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5502">TS</a>]
01:31:51 ◼ ► No I don't think it's really that different in the end that's kind of what I was driving at earlier. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5511">TS</a>]
01:31:57 ◼ ► You know there are things in Objective C. That I love. In that I miss when I write C. Sharp. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5517">TS</a>]
01:32:02 ◼ ► There are things that are in C. Sharp that I love that I missed when I write Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5522">TS</a>]
01:32:08 ◼ ► but If I were to like the first thing that jumps to mind of something that I really missed an Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5528">TS</a>]
01:32:15 ◼ ► Sharp is something silly like reflection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5535">TS</a>]
01:32:18 ◼ ► or introspection which really is not necessary in is completely ancillary to the conversation we're having. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5538">TS</a>]
01:32:26 ◼ ► Like that it's been a lot out there to say you know you know what is there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5546">TS</a>]
01:32:30 ◼ ► but it's no it absolutely is there just a comparatively a royal pain in the butt compared to how easy it is in some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5550">TS</a>]
01:32:36 ◼ ► but it changes the way the right programs like it mean think of think of writing an action actual very high level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5556">TS</a>]
01:32:41 ◼ ► language it's not just like us. Incremental stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5561">TS</a>]
01:32:45 ◼ ► If you have those features in there kind of built into the language in a convenient way it it informs how you write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5565">TS</a>]
01:32:51 ◼ ► A.P.I. Spelling Absolutely. Think of all like the ruby people writing this to be a D.S.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5571">TS</a>]
01:32:55 ◼ ► So making a little you know because it's so easy to just add methods to classes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5575">TS</a>]
01:32:59 ◼ ► and throw that like extending the number of classes they can put like one dot times in three days not a go at all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5579">TS</a>]
01:33:06 ◼ ► like now I'm saying all this stuff is good but like language features change what the A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5586">TS</a>]
01:33:10 ◼ ► Looks like and another thing that change will be a palace like success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5590">TS</a>]
01:33:14 ◼ ► and I think a lot of the sort of the narrowing gap between objective seen tea shop is based on the success of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5594">TS</a>]
01:33:23 ◼ ► companies that shepherd them the relative success over the past decade of Apple versus Microsoft. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5603">TS</a>]
01:33:28 ◼ ► It's pretty stark contrast now though Microsoft has been improving the shop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5608">TS</a>]
01:33:32 ◼ ► and everything they have not had the dominant thriving big new platform as a tractor to pull their language A.B.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5612">TS</a>]
01:33:40 ◼ ► They have had the kind of fizzling out really doing well in the mobile market platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5620">TS</a>]
01:33:45 ◼ ► and the old legacy Windows platform and a bunch of other confused the eyes you know point along [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5625">TS</a>]
01:33:50 ◼ ► and so yet the gap is narrowing because Apple's fire and also owners with objectives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5630">TS</a>]
01:33:55 ◼ ► and Microsoft is another DON'T was a shock but what will you say that. But I mean C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5635">TS</a>]
01:34:00 ◼ ► Sharp is making considerable strides on a regular basis and what the language yes but yeah I do that's fair point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5640">TS</a>]
01:34:09 ◼ ► Has done a little better with like parallel programming for example I would argue it's not as clean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5649">TS</a>]
01:34:13 ◼ ► and simple is as Grand Central Dispatch but it's better. But C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5653">TS</a>]
01:34:18 ◼ ► Sharp as a language I really really really really like it a lot a lot a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5658">TS</a>]
01:34:25 ◼ ► and I'm not saying I love Microsoft I mean Microsoft has its own woes but C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5665">TS</a>]
01:34:29 ◼ ► Sharp as a language is really truly incredible and I really really like it and some of the things you can do in C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5669">TS</a>]
01:34:35 ◼ ► Sharp like someone brought up in the chat a minute ago link link language in the query you can do some of that with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5675">TS</a>]
01:34:41 ◼ ► predicates in cocoa but it's not as nice it's not as easy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5681">TS</a>]
01:34:47 ◼ ► and like I said reflection earlier some of those things are really incredible into having easy access to introspection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5687">TS</a>]
01:34:53 ◼ ► having easy access to writing seek will ask queries against objects. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5693">TS</a>]
01:34:59 ◼ ► It makes the way you write code very different just like you said John in so I see both sides of this coin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5699">TS</a>]
01:35:05 ◼ ► and it's so tough I want to be more definitive and come down with a particular perspective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5705">TS</a>]
01:35:11 ◼ ► but I don't know I don't know I don't know what I would do if I was Apple other than put some really big nerds on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5711">TS</a>]
01:35:16 ◼ ► and see what they come up with I think the link is a good example because there's this whole thing of like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5716">TS</a>]
01:35:22 ◼ ► higher level language with manage memory in these other features and native strings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5722">TS</a>]
01:35:27 ◼ ► and all of those things from a high level language that we think we want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5727">TS</a>]
01:35:29 ◼ ► and in providing you the ability to like let's try to you know link link isn't yet another attempt to sort of make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5729">TS</a>]
01:35:37 ◼ ► easier to deal with big buckets of data in a language that you want to get the data out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5737">TS</a>]
01:35:41 ◼ ► and we want to get the data into like variables essentially in our language so we can deal with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5741">TS</a>]
01:35:45 ◼ ► and we want to take whatever structures we have in our language with objects or something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5745">TS</a>]
01:35:49 ◼ ► and put them into some other big bucket of data probably a database like how many times have we taken a run of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5749">TS</a>]
01:35:54 ◼ ► problem with object relational mapping and direct sequel queries and link with the another example and it just goes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5754">TS</a>]
01:36:00 ◼ ► Show that like the features of language that we're talking about being a higher level will become a necessity it will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5760">TS</a>]
01:36:06 ◼ ► be necessary to be to you know dream memory manage to not be able to have a site fall to have things that we all expect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5766">TS</a>]
01:36:13 ◼ ► to have like you know name parameters native strings and maybe regular expressions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5773">TS</a>]
01:36:17 ◼ ► and native implicit parallelism baked into the runtime and all these things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5777">TS</a>]
01:36:23 ◼ ► but they will not be sufficient to be a better language because I think many people Lincoln many people hate because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5783">TS</a>]
01:36:29 ◼ ► they like you know everyone hates or around this right but then link people like oh this is a great idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5789">TS</a>]
01:36:33 ◼ ► and then you link throwing like links not that great either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5793">TS</a>]
01:36:36 ◼ ► and some people go back to writing the sequel queries like just because you have these features doesn't mean you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5796">TS</a>]
01:36:40 ◼ ► going to make an awesome A.P.I. G.C.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5800">TS</a>]
01:36:42 ◼ ► Is a great example the people who made that had a better idea of what would make a good easy A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5802">TS</a>]
01:36:47 ◼ ► For new pals and they sure are going to just see for crying out loud right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5807">TS</a>]
01:36:51 ◼ ► You know it just because you have married doesn't mean you're going home with A.B.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5811">TS</a>]
01:36:55 ◼ ► Was good is easy doesn't mean that you're going to come up with a way of dealing with databases that's better than a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5815">TS</a>]
01:36:59 ◼ ► link that's better than or ends better than writing direct queries like it doesn't automatically make you the winner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5819">TS</a>]
01:37:04 ◼ ► but it will eventually be necessary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5824">TS</a>]
01:37:07 ◼ ► and eventually you get to the point like Apple was with Copeland where no matter how good your stuff is if you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5827">TS</a>]
01:37:14 ◼ ► meet this in the bar you do not have every protection you become a nonentity you it's like you can't play in the game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5834">TS</a>]
01:37:21 ◼ ► anymore no matter how awesome your stuff is in like oh look at this we have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5841">TS</a>]
01:37:24 ◼ ► and we have done our new I know I saw it I was like I'm sorry you spent a long time over there dicking around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5844">TS</a>]
01:37:30 ◼ ► and the bar has moved and now you are just and not a player anymore and that's the scenario that trying to avoid here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5850">TS</a>]
01:37:36 ◼ ► It doesn't mean that if you make a memory management which then it will be better than Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5856">TS</a>]
01:37:40 ◼ ► In fact chances are very great that it will not be and your A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5860">TS</a>]
01:37:43 ◼ ► Will not be as good as cocoa That's why I was saying make seventeen teams put them against each other don't tell them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5863">TS</a>]
01:37:48 ◼ ► each other exists like it's going to be difficult to do is not even guaranteed that you're going to be successful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5868">TS</a>]
01:37:52 ◼ ► but if you don't try you are guaranteed long term that you're doomed. Yeah I agree it's just. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5872">TS</a>]
01:38:00 ◼ ► It's it's so tough in one thing I should point out is that link is about more than just hitting databases I mean what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5880">TS</a>]
01:38:07 ◼ ► what what's really powerful about link is if you have a dictionary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5887">TS</a>]
01:38:11 ◼ ► or a hash table in memory you can write really expressive queries against that half sure that dictionary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5891">TS</a>]
01:38:20 ◼ ► and you can do it either in a format that that smells a lot like sequel literally within code you can you can write you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5900">TS</a>]
01:38:27 ◼ ► know from a dictionary where blah select blah or you can do it in a more traditional way but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5907">TS</a>]
01:38:34 ◼ ► but link is extremely powerful and it's things like that that make me think you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5914">TS</a>]
01:38:40 ◼ ► but I don't know I think the most the most pressing thing you said was that it takes a long time to develop a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5920">TS</a>]
01:38:49 ◼ ► Of a really long time and I don't think that done it very much there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5929">TS</a>]
01:38:52 ◼ ► and I would take I would say Coke over the Dot Net framework as much as I would miss link as much as I would miss [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5932">TS</a>]
01:38:58 ◼ ► reflection in the easy peasy form that it is and net I would probably take took Ko-Ko over it and that's saying a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5938">TS</a>]
01:39:05 ◼ ► Even if you have an awesome A.P.I. and Even if you have an awesome language and every agrees A.B.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5945">TS</a>]
01:39:09 ◼ ► Is better than everything else in the market never degrees your language has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5949">TS</a>]
01:39:12 ◼ ► or the market is not attached to a successful product that will also do middle health like the things that have to come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5952">TS</a>]
01:39:18 ◼ ► to get like that's how we end up with like see an objective. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5958">TS</a>]
01:39:20 ◼ ► It's like in the end like it no matter how great a thing you make in terms of the underlying thing that doesn't get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5960">TS</a>]
01:39:26 ◼ ► attached sessile product it's gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5966">TS</a>]
01:39:28 ◼ ► and whatever it is it has a successful product provided to meet some pretty low minimum bar of suitability. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5968">TS</a>]
01:39:36 ◼ ► and will be still be stuck with the decades for decades anyway so that's the other you know again the theme of the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5976">TS</a>]
01:39:45 ◼ ► and uses it to Natasha successful products it doesn't mean that it is the best thing that we could ever possibly have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5985">TS</a>]
01:39:50 ◼ ► and its success you know like Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5990">TS</a>]
01:39:52 ◼ ► Would be nowhere paddled in by next right is it because I had no object is the is better in many many ways than a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5992">TS</a>]
01:39:59 ◼ ► of its contemporaries. Languages but it would be nowhere if Apple hadn't bought them and so like that Apple has. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/5999">TS</a>]
01:40:05 ◼ ► When you have a successful product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6005">TS</a>]
01:40:06 ◼ ► and you have the ability as Microsoft sort of had to try to to try to prevent yourself from becoming irrelevant by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6006">TS</a>]
01:40:13 ◼ ► revving your technology stack trying to good at the same time is also making successful products on maybe it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6013">TS</a>]
01:40:18 ◼ ► impossible maybe Apple maybe Apple's life time is limited by the lifetime Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6018">TS</a>]
01:40:22 ◼ ► Of it's institutionally uncapable capable of ever making anything good enough to replace it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6022">TS</a>]
01:40:28 ◼ ► Then it will be Apple the company will live as long as it takes or Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6028">TS</a>]
01:40:33 ◼ ► To become like a disqualifier where now just like memory protection was like memory lack of memory to action preemptive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6033">TS</a>]
01:40:39 ◼ ► multitasking became a disqualifier for the desktop P.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6039">TS</a>]
01:40:42 ◼ ► Market and Apple had to do something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6042">TS</a>]
01:40:44 ◼ ► and then most went out of business well that if that's Apple strategy if we ever get Tim Cook on the shelves I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6044">TS</a>]
01:40:51 ◼ ► ask him this super esoteric question is like this I think this is like you know it's probably pet he'll be retired [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6051">TS</a>]
01:40:58 ◼ ► but he doesn't have to worry about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6058">TS</a>]
01:41:01 ◼ ► but I wonder if your SEO company if you ever think about things like this like three C.E.O.'s are now that guy might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6061">TS</a>]
01:41:08 ◼ ► have to worry about this do I care at all and if I do my planning for it now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6068">TS</a>]
01:41:12 ◼ ► or my discontent to say we're going to make competing proving objective as long as hard as we can ever never becomes a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6072">TS</a>]
01:41:18 ◼ ► disqualifier success Well that's the end of Apple but that'll be so long from now nobody alive cares. Good job. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6078">TS</a>]
01:41:24 ◼ ► So my what I keep wondering is right around the time that I think all of us were getting completely fed up with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6084">TS</a>]
01:41:33 ◼ ► fact that we needed to to perform our own reference counting in Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6093">TS</a>]
01:41:38 ◼ ► That's when Art came out and at the last possible moment the biggest issue that all of us had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6098">TS</a>]
01:41:44 ◼ ► or I would say the biggest issue all of us had with Objective C. Suddenly wasn't an issue anymore. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6104">TS</a>]
01:41:49 ◼ ► If Apple continues down that road [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6109">TS</a>]
01:41:51 ◼ ► and at the eleventh hour finally fixes whatever the current issue is is that it is not a long term plan that'll work do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6111">TS</a>]
01:42:00 ◼ ► It took them two tries to do that because the first try was garbage collection right and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6120">TS</a>]
01:42:04 ◼ ► and that was a multi-year effort that ended in failure because like it wasn't while they got the by anybody something I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6124">TS</a>]
01:42:11 ◼ ► think they made Xcode guys do it I forget who they had dog food the garbage collection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6131">TS</a>]
01:42:15 ◼ ► but like it didn't work out because it wasn't nicely compatible with the sea place language they found a better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6135">TS</a>]
01:42:19 ◼ ► solution that had better characteristics it was a better fit for their language that is more of a compromise in many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6139">TS</a>]
01:42:25 ◼ ► senses than garbage collection but is so much better fit for a C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6145">TS</a>]
01:42:27 ◼ ► Based language and also garbage collection has many disadvantages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6147">TS</a>]
01:42:31 ◼ ► and mobile that arc doesn't have the ark was the right solution at the right time for Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6151">TS</a>]
01:42:35 ◼ ► No question but it's not really the right solution. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6155">TS</a>]
01:42:38 ◼ ► If you're ever if you're going to try to incremental lies your way from where we are now to a higher level language. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6158">TS</a>]
01:42:44 ◼ ► I guess if you're phenomenally successful you can use that to extend your life for a really long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6164">TS</a>]
01:42:51 ◼ ► but eventually we're going to get it kind of get to the point where we are like with age of us plus where there we go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6171">TS</a>]
01:42:56 ◼ ► Where you kept attacking stuff on to something for as long as you possibly could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6176">TS</a>]
01:43:01 ◼ ► and as long as you're still successful you know hailed as i Phones There is a response on there must be pretty awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6181">TS</a>]
01:43:06 ◼ ► right like you can keep adding features for pretty long time if you have an excess of products you're just really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6186">TS</a>]
01:43:13 ◼ ► and I have a hard time seeing a path from something like object to see like how the transition of the transition is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6193">TS</a>]
01:43:22 ◼ ► That's the really hot like there's always like a chasm that you can keep making things better improving the syntax dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6202">TS</a>]
01:43:27 ◼ ► notation string literals object literals like you can do lots of awesome things especially with L V M The new compiler [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6207">TS</a>]
01:43:33 ◼ ► infrastructure like they have a lot of runway out in front of them they can do lots of awesome things again long enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6213">TS</a>]
01:43:38 ◼ ► probably for everyone who works at Apple to get old retire and die. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6218">TS</a>]
01:43:41 ◼ ► But eventually the runway does run out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6221">TS</a>]
01:43:43 ◼ ► and you're left with this crazy ass mongrel like the runaway I think is run on each of us plus that is just you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6223">TS</a>]
01:43:48 ◼ ► tell has had tons of stuff modified and tacked onto it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6228">TS</a>]
01:43:52 ◼ ► and some other successful product will come along will be successful not because of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6232">TS</a>]
01:43:56 ◼ ► but just incidentally also happens to have a language where you can express yourself. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6236">TS</a>]
01:44:00 ◼ ► Concisely you know in that summer's nicer manner that people will in addition to saying I'm going to write for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6240">TS</a>]
01:44:09 ◼ ► Because that's awesome in the year twenty whatever and by the way the programs are awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6249">TS</a>]
01:44:14 ◼ ► and you know how do you know if you're going to say square brackets a gang of us all be able to see the stupid syntax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6254">TS</a>]
01:44:19 ◼ ► you know it's not the most important thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6259">TS</a>]
01:44:21 ◼ ► But yeah there there will be a better way to program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6261">TS</a>]
01:44:25 ◼ ► and it will be attached to some other product if Apple doesn't make it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6265">TS</a>]
01:44:29 ◼ ► Yeah and I think this conversation is the conversation of like Oh Apple needs to do this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6269">TS</a>]
01:44:36 ◼ ► I think if you're going to make that point I think it needs specifics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6276">TS</a>]
01:44:38 ◼ ► and you know it's easy to say oh well Apple needs to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6278">TS</a>]
01:44:44 ◼ ► They need to move in this direction in general terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6284">TS</a>]
01:44:46 ◼ ► and I agree that they did need to move in the direction of higher level of Angele [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6286">TS</a>]
01:44:50 ◼ ► but there's a big question mark there of what exactly that means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6290">TS</a>]
01:44:55 ◼ ► and you know you said earlier John that you think it's Apple's responsibility. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6295">TS</a>]
01:44:59 ◼ ► I don't necessarily think that's the case and I think they should have to turn the thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6299">TS</a>]
01:45:03 ◼ ► but I think it's up to it's up to like the world of developers really to to to figure out what the heck we want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6303">TS</a>]
01:45:12 ◼ ► and that I think is a much harder question you know if. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6312">TS</a>]
01:45:17 ◼ ► I definitely think that the whole platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6317">TS</a>]
01:45:21 ◼ ► and all developers benefit substantially by their only really being like one conical language that you write apps for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6321">TS</a>]
01:45:28 ◼ ► these platforms that there's one language with it with the officially by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6328">TS</a>]
01:45:33 ◼ ► and yeah you can there's there's fringe efforts to you know languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6333">TS</a>]
01:45:37 ◼ ► but I think I think overall everyone benefits from there being like want to greet upon default language so the question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6337">TS</a>]
01:45:43 ◼ ► is is something's going to replace that that language. It Like what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6343">TS</a>]
01:45:48 ◼ ► What changes and what decisions are good enough to replace it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6348">TS</a>]
01:45:52 ◼ ► Because if you if you try to have it both ways try to maintain both you know you had a whole show you had two of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6352">TS</a>]
01:45:57 ◼ ► shows on bridges that you know it doesn't really work very well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6357">TS</a>]
01:46:00 ◼ ► So what you know what choices would they make right now Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6360">TS</a>]
01:46:05 ◼ ► Is pretty good at most stuff really good at some stuff and really rough it some other stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6365">TS</a>]
01:46:11 ◼ ► but overall I would say it's pretty good right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6371">TS</a>]
01:46:14 ◼ ► And I think overall people who are familiar with that are enough to look beyond the brackets would probably agree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6374">TS</a>]
01:46:23 ◼ ► What new thing would be at least that good to at least as many people or or a clickable to as many circumstances [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6383">TS</a>]
01:46:32 ◼ ► and I think that's a really hard question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6392">TS</a>]
01:46:35 ◼ ► and you know this is this is like a design question this is not this is not as much a technical question. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6395">TS</a>]
01:46:40 ◼ ► This is a design choice and design is hard because a lot of times with these quick questions there is no good answer. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6400">TS</a>]
01:46:47 ◼ ► It's a lot like politics like there is like no good policy in some cases where everyone's going to be happy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6407">TS</a>]
01:46:56 ◼ ► or to Universal winner or even everyone can agree that it's a net win at all and so I think Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6416">TS</a>]
01:47:02 ◼ ► Replacements are going to face a big problem there which is like there's this huge A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6422">TS</a>]
01:47:07 ◼ ► That has to be you know poured over or core converted or rethought. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6427">TS</a>]
01:47:11 ◼ ► There's a huge installed base is all these developers know what it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6431">TS</a>]
01:47:14 ◼ ► and it works for the most part it works really well like all the problems of of C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6434">TS</a>]
01:47:19 ◼ ► That make it hard to use or or clunky or hard to maintain. If it's badly written Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6439">TS</a>]
01:47:26 ◼ ► Tackles a lot of those and severely reduces the impact of a lot of those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6446">TS</a>]
01:47:31 ◼ ► and so it like a lot of the a lot of the problems of C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6451">TS</a>]
01:47:34 ◼ ► Aren't really problems an object to see or are so much more that it's you know it's basically irrelevant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6454">TS</a>]
01:47:40 ◼ ► And so to make something that substantially better is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6460">TS</a>]
01:47:44 ◼ ► Technically yeah you're right a lot of work it can take a lot of time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6464">TS</a>]
01:47:47 ◼ ► but I think the much bigger question is what is just deciding what exactly that should be and how it should work and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6467">TS</a>]
01:47:53 ◼ ► and all that. All the decisions that go into designing a language and the associated framework. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6473">TS</a>]
01:48:02 ◼ ► and I don't see any consensus forming among developers who are suggesting that it should be different. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6482">TS</a>]
01:48:08 ◼ ► I don't see any consensus forming to say like oh it should be it should move from where it is to X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6488">TS</a>]
01:48:16 ◼ ► Is a little bit of consensus because of all the other high level languages there are other because so much development [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6496">TS</a>]
01:48:21 ◼ ► these days is done not on you know native platforms going go you know server side programming like there's always a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6501">TS</a>]
01:48:26 ◼ ► language like Python Ruby and even P.H.P. and All you know all the stuff out there is giving P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6506">TS</a>]
01:48:31 ◼ ► and Javascript giving people a taste of the things they don't have a native languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6511">TS</a>]
01:48:34 ◼ ► and there's some consensus on things of the day I think everyone agree that a modern language has to have a. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6514">TS</a>]
01:48:39 ◼ ► I'm thinking more like you mention a transition before it transitions can be terrible because you can't just wake up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6519">TS</a>]
01:48:46 ◼ ► one day and say OK everybody right new A.B.I. and If you language go like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6526">TS</a>]
01:48:50 ◼ ► But luckily Apple has some experience in this area. It transitioned everybody from A C C plus plus you know A.B.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6530">TS</a>]
01:48:59 ◼ ► System for reading that whether it's next to a box or power plant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6539">TS</a>]
01:49:02 ◼ ► or whatever it transition them from that to a language it almost looks like a lateral move to Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6542">TS</a>]
01:49:07 ◼ ► Also sea bass but totally different totally different language. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6547">TS</a>]
01:49:11 ◼ ► They manage that transition perhaps not as well as they could have but for a long time they had things like carbon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6551">TS</a>]
01:49:16 ◼ ► and cocoa and you make a new control is control only available in cocoa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6556">TS</a>]
01:49:19 ◼ ► and it's one thing carbon people would complain why can't I get that control I want to draw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6559">TS</a>]
01:49:22 ◼ ► or my carbon up in the head Quickdraw still in there in the course like it was a hairy mess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6562">TS</a>]
01:49:27 ◼ ► and that move was such a tiny move like you're saying you need a language it's so maidenly betterness confesses was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6567">TS</a>]
01:49:33 ◼ ► there consensus that objective seeing Coco is better than carbon. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6573">TS</a>]
01:49:36 ◼ ► Definitely not among old school mac developers doubling out among like Adobe and Microsoft and stuff like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6576">TS</a>]
01:49:42 ◼ ► It's I'm not going to say it's going to be easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6582">TS</a>]
01:49:44 ◼ ► but I think the the carbon to Cocoa transition is evidence that it is possible to do that in a way that doesn't totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6584">TS</a>]
01:49:53 ◼ ► destroy your platform which is not I don't think was a given that I don't think any one of the ripple of a transition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6593">TS</a>]
01:49:57 ◼ ► like Microsoft still hasn't managed I think to pull it off. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6597">TS</a>]
01:50:00 ◼ ► With the shark now desiderata a mac app you're writing a cocoa out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6600">TS</a>]
01:50:04 ◼ ► But nowadays if you're writing a windows app are you writing C. Sharp app and whatever the hell A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6604">TS</a>]
01:50:08 ◼ ► They're pushing these days for the good. Like who's running Windows apps. Yeah I mean that's a question too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6608">TS</a>]
01:50:13 ◼ ► It's going to be really difficult and the transition is almost a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6613">TS</a>]
01:50:17 ◼ ► but I think the thing you're transitioning to I don't think you need all that much consensus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6617">TS</a>]
01:50:22 ◼ ► and I don't think it needs to be that fantastically better Big Apple's kind of shown that you can do it sort of by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6622">TS</a>]
01:50:28 ◼ ► Fiachra and eventually people will come around to the thing. If the things that you can program in Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6628">TS</a>]
01:50:33 ◼ ► Are popular enough like the i Phone and you know that you will you don't you managed to bring along like Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6633">TS</a>]
01:50:40 ◼ ► and Adobe eventually kind of kicking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6640">TS</a>]
01:50:42 ◼ ► and screaming like I was the first cocoa version of Photoshop like to version of the go or something like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6642">TS</a>]
01:50:47 ◼ ► It's taken a long time but you manage not to lose them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6647">TS</a>]
01:50:50 ◼ ► and they've basically completely transitioned if you're writing an application for Apple's platform you doing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6650">TS</a>]
01:50:56 ◼ ► objectives the echo despite the fact that they're not all that different from C.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6656">TS</a>]
01:50:59 ◼ ► Plus plus A P I's that preceded them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6659">TS</a>]
01:51:04 ◼ ► or you said a minute ago you know it's up to the developer community in order to kind of I don't dictate is a strong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6664">TS</a>]
01:51:12 ◼ ► word to kind of help figure out what the what the way forward is I mean how do we do that as a community do we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6672">TS</a>]
01:51:18 ◼ ► write blog post we write our own coffee script kind of equivalent that trains compiles into Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6678">TS</a>]
01:51:24 ◼ ► You know what how is it up how to hell can we influence that change. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6684">TS</a>]
01:51:29 ◼ ► I would say that that's exactly it it's you know we do it by both discussion and by example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6689">TS</a>]
01:51:36 ◼ ► Again though I think the biggest challenges that this is a really hard problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6696">TS</a>]
01:51:41 ◼ ► It's a really hard question to figure out like what should be next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6701">TS</a>]
01:51:45 ◼ ► and you know like you know the most of the posts have said that you know no one no one saying oh you should switch to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6705">TS</a>]
01:51:54 ◼ ► python like. Like no one is putting like with like a specific language in place to say this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6714">TS</a>]
01:52:00 ◼ ► This specific thing is what you should switch to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6720">TS</a>]
01:52:04 ◼ ► It's just you know very hand we'd be like oh well it needs to solve these criteria or it needs to change. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6724">TS</a>]
01:52:11 ◼ ► This list of my personal nitpicks about the language and and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6731">TS</a>]
01:52:16 ◼ ► and as I said earlier like you know a lot of the things could be solved by A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6736">TS</a>]
01:52:19 ◼ ► Changes not not language changes and and a lot of those things do require language changes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6739">TS</a>]
01:52:25 ◼ ► but are like superficial like the brackets and so I don't to be just too much of the ground further [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6745">TS</a>]
01:52:31 ◼ ► but I just think that one of the biggest reasons why we don't have something like this yet is because what what that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6751">TS</a>]
01:52:42 ◼ ► next thing should be is really not obvious to anybody as far as I can tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6762">TS</a>]
01:52:46 ◼ ► and no one's clamoring for something specific that is widely considered a good idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6766">TS</a>]
01:52:52 ◼ ► Well there's never going to be consensus outside Apple unavailable for consensus to form that consensus would take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6772">TS</a>]
01:52:58 ◼ ► would be all their developers leaving to develop for a more popular platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6778">TS</a>]
01:53:03 ◼ ► and then the only thing Apple could take away from that was well everybody leaving to develop for whatever the new you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6783">TS</a>]
01:53:08 ◼ ► know pinky ring platform is that's become very popular and then they would decide whatever the hell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6788">TS</a>]
01:53:16 ◼ ► and language of the pink platform uses that's what they should use in on even though that would be the case because all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6796">TS</a>]
01:53:20 ◼ ► it would mean is they just moved to a more successful platform the same way that people would say Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6800">TS</a>]
01:53:24 ◼ ► Is the best language ever because look at all these developers who one developed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6804">TS</a>]
01:53:27 ◼ ► and it's not really because the language they learn the language because of the way they get out of the i Phone so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6807">TS</a>]
01:53:32 ◼ ► signals from outside as well you can get from any kind of is like a big fuzzy noise. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6812">TS</a>]
01:53:39 ◼ ► If you wait for a clear signal the clear single will be a sign that you waited too long and you're doomed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6819">TS</a>]
01:53:44 ◼ ► and it's probably not a good signal anyway because you were to get a look at the thing that they're moving to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6824">TS</a>]
01:53:48 ◼ ► and say that's what we should have done not necessarily You could've been something entirely different ten years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6828">TS</a>]
01:53:52 ◼ ► and been and prevented this from happening but you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6832">TS</a>]
01:53:55 ◼ ► and so now you've lost the opportunity to dictate what the next language an A.P.I. Is going to be. That's why. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6835">TS</a>]
01:54:00 ◼ ► I think Apple has to do it because they they have to do it now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6840">TS</a>]
01:54:02 ◼ ► when they're in their position to be masters of their own destiny. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6842">TS</a>]
01:54:06 ◼ ► If they were never going to be consensus outside them all they can look at is sort of the buzz of noise of high level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6846">TS</a>]
01:54:11 ◼ ► languages and pick and choose the features they think like what one of the biggest pain points. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6851">TS</a>]
01:54:16 ◼ ► I mean the kind of doing it with ARC and everything now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6856">TS</a>]
01:54:18 ◼ ► but like how can we transcend those pain points not just patch over the not to make them a little better not just find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6858">TS</a>]
01:54:24 ◼ ► a solution to those things it's a better fit for our current language than for example garbage collection was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6864">TS</a>]
01:54:28 ◼ ► but so what is the next leap in languages. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6868">TS</a>]
01:54:31 ◼ ► And I have to look at everything across the entire world all the different ways you can write software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6871">TS</a>]
01:54:35 ◼ ► and maybe come up with some new ideas of their own it's a big responsibility but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6875">TS</a>]
01:54:38 ◼ ► when you're the biggest technology company in the world that's what you have to do. Thanks a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6878">TS</a>]
01:54:44 ◼ ► Two or three sponsors this week King Squarespace and Linda dot com and we will see you next week. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6884">TS</a>]
01:54:53 ◼ ► Now that's accidental. John thanks again today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6893">TS</a>]
01:55:24 ◼ ► And you know it says to that list and I don't know if anyone else enjoys it but I freakin love heard out like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6924">TS</a>]
01:55:58 ◼ ► I think we do that all the time. It beats. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6958">TS</a>]
01:56:00 ◼ ► And I would hate to show software methodologies because I know one of these things is going to be an even longer show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6960">TS</a>]
01:56:07 ◼ ► one of these days we'll talk about why link and our arms are not solutions. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6967">TS</a>]
01:56:12 ◼ ► Nice to see you keep associate yngling with with link to sequel which is one piece of land I know I know I know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6972">TS</a>]
01:56:19 ◼ ► didn't realize I can create my database using X. Path will be awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6979">TS</a>]
01:56:24 ◼ ► Nor did I bring up of the database drivers for in memory things in common separated files all the good stuff the pros [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6984">TS</a>]
01:56:32 ◼ ► doing decades ago. The opportunity memory operated the first program. Now I think Link is awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/6992">TS</a>]
01:56:40 ◼ ► I think it's amazing. I just think that like the ability to try something like that is the important thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7000">TS</a>]
01:56:46 ◼ ► Actual success like was once you tried you're like well I have strengths [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7006">TS</a>]
01:56:50 ◼ ► and weaknesses versus all the other things we tried before and then someone else tries again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7010">TS</a>]
01:56:53 ◼ ► but you can even try something like a link if the language doesn't provide support for it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7013">TS</a>]
01:57:00 ◼ ► Like I don't know what the solution is to turn to the problem that link and or EMS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7020">TS</a>]
01:57:04 ◼ ► and everything else who tried to use you know people here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7024">TS</a>]
01:57:07 ◼ ► Again he keep shooting link with or EMS and it's so much more than that. I know but it's a way to get a date. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7027">TS</a>]
01:57:13 ◼ ► Doesn't have to be in a database it's basically a way to bridge the world. Like I want to get this information. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7033">TS</a>]
01:57:19 ◼ ► It's in some place like to be able to view everything through a certain lens. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7039">TS</a>]
01:57:23 ◼ ► What if I could query a dictionary the same way I can query a database now they're unified under the single A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7043">TS</a>]
01:57:28 ◼ ► And yes that's a much better way of looking at it. Their advantage to that. And then sometimes like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7048">TS</a>]
01:57:33 ◼ ► But that's not really a good fit for this type thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7053">TS</a>]
01:57:35 ◼ ► Maybe I want to get in a different way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7055">TS</a>]
01:57:37 ◼ ► and in the same way that people that say I don't want to view my database as a database I want to view it as a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7057">TS</a>]
01:57:42 ◼ ► objects and I don't like at all. I like R.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7062">TS</a>]
01:57:44 ◼ ► Better or maybe I don't object database because in a database I actually will be like the objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7064">TS</a>]
01:57:48 ◼ ► and I'm getting with an object database is going to keep trying to figure this out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7068">TS</a>]
01:57:52 ◼ ► As you know I give it full marks for being an interesting and novel way approach to familiar class. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7072">TS</a>]
01:58:00 ◼ ► It's aided by the abilities of the language. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7080">TS</a>]
01:58:03 ◼ ► Yeah that's the thing that I love so much about link is I use it against objects constantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7083">TS</a>]
01:58:07 ◼ ► and not just dictionaries you know use against a raise you know gimme gimme all the items where such [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7087">TS</a>]
01:58:12 ◼ ► and such a property is greater than such and such value give me all the people where age is greater than twenty one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7092">TS</a>]
01:58:17 ◼ ► And yeah that sounds a lot like a database query. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7097">TS</a>]
01:58:20 ◼ ► And that's where link got it started but I can do that against an array of memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7100">TS</a>]
01:58:24 ◼ ► and that's what makes it so powerful and I very very rarely in fact almost never use link again sequel. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7104">TS</a>]
01:58:30 ◼ ► I almost exclusively use LINQ against objects and it's so powerful again you can do a lot of that with an S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7110">TS</a>]
01:58:36 ◼ ► but it's not quite so clean it's not quite so transparent although perhaps I'm saying that because I'm just used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7116">TS</a>]
01:58:43 ◼ ► link that you would love Perl Perl is the big thing about Perl is that like your come you're comfortable speaking in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7123">TS</a>]
01:58:50 ◼ ► that sort of you know not dialect but like I want to get things out of an array [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7130">TS</a>]
01:58:54 ◼ ► and I think of it I can think of it in the same way that we think of getting out of a dictionary it's cultural. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7134">TS</a>]
01:58:58 ◼ ► Yes Perl is the poster child for giving you a way to express the same sentiment in whatever way you're the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7138">TS</a>]
01:59:05 ◼ ► comfortable thinking about it so if you're more comfortable thinking about getting information about a re is phrasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7145">TS</a>]
01:59:10 ◼ ► it in that way then that's a way that will work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7150">TS</a>]
01:59:12 ◼ ► and you know like not just more than one way to do it in more than one way to say and what I like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7152">TS</a>]
01:59:17 ◼ ► People would argue why do you want to save me through different ways will sometimes people's brains work a certain way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7157">TS</a>]
01:59:22 ◼ ► and they think of it in this matter knows how his people brains think of the same as I passed in a totally different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7162">TS</a>]
01:59:26 ◼ ► way with everything switched around in a different order. They should be able to express that as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7166">TS</a>]
01:59:32 ◼ ► I also want to bring up one more quick thing that's famous last words and that's concurrency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7172">TS</a>]
01:59:38 ◼ ► and a lot of a lot of the the posts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7178">TS</a>]
01:59:42 ◼ ► and thoughts about the new the next big language revolve around concurrency which is a valid concern the problem is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7182">TS</a>]
01:59:49 ◼ ► that what a lot of people seem to want is for concurrency to be like hand wave the way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7189">TS</a>]
01:59:54 ◼ ► Oh it'll just always make everything concurrent at the language level and noodle little. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7194">TS</a>]
02:00:00 ◼ ► And currency easier and the reason why concurrency is hard is not because of the language. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7200">TS</a>]
02:00:08 ◼ ► My concurrency is hard is because it's complicated and it's so there are language aspects of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7208">TS</a>]
02:00:14 ◼ ► but I can relate to something like her language if you design the language around the idea of concurrency. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7214">TS</a>]
02:00:19 ◼ ► A lot of the code that we have to right now to do things safely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7219">TS</a>]
02:00:22 ◼ ► and concurrently like implicit concurrency where I mean go has a little bit of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7222">TS</a>]
02:00:26 ◼ ► and you know other things that where you can express something in a high enough level way where not only do you not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7226">TS</a>]
02:00:32 ◼ ► care about the details of how it's done you don't have any control over the details of how it's done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7232">TS</a>]
02:00:37 ◼ ► and there are invariants that are provided by the language in runtime that you can guarantee. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7237">TS</a>]
02:00:41 ◼ ► All that does is just move your set of problems up to a higher level if you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7241">TS</a>]
02:00:46 ◼ ► but at least it gets rid of like the super low level concerns in the medium level concerns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7246">TS</a>]
02:00:50 ◼ ► and now you deadlock on much higher level concerns think you are right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7250">TS</a>]
02:00:54 ◼ ► but that's progress you know because like you don't like you want to have some sort of primitive like semaphores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7254">TS</a>]
02:00:59 ◼ ► and you know atomic operations I.C.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7259">TS</a>]
02:01:01 ◼ ► Usenet let us stop thinking about that particular problem think one level up and it's never going to be easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7261">TS</a>]
02:01:07 ◼ ► but what people want is like look I'm tired of thinking about concurrency at this level I would love it if simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7267">TS</a>]
02:01:12 ◼ ► things I could do simple concurrent operations on sets of data where I didn't care about the power of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7272">TS</a>]
02:01:17 ◼ ► and there was like built into the language I was sixteen implicitly expressed something like doing all this on all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7277">TS</a>]
02:01:23 ◼ ► these With goes away towards that worth it I don't want to worry whether the details of the language itself can provide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7283">TS</a>]
02:01:30 ◼ ► lots of ways of worrying about things at a slightly higher level concern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7290">TS</a>]
02:01:35 ◼ ► and I think everyone would see that as a big win and that's what they're mostly talking about concurrency. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7295">TS</a>]
02:01:39 ◼ ► Maybe they have fantasies where like there's not going to be a problem that really they're just going to reduce the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7299">TS</a>]
02:01:43 ◼ ► number of deadlocks or deadlock and higher level things but again isn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7303">TS</a>]
02:01:47 ◼ ► I mean so many of these of these wish list items This included in this much more an A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7307">TS</a>]
02:01:55 ◼ ► but it can be a language problem if you design a language with parents in mind even if it's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7315">TS</a>]
02:02:00 ◼ ► Part of like the standard library to go to know whether they're concurrently things are part of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7320">TS</a>]
02:02:04 ◼ ► or there is a library that comes in the language and that that line is fuzzy to begin with I mean like Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7324">TS</a>]
02:02:08 ◼ ► Technically is basically a C. Library it's not like it's there in Objective C. Language with C. Runtime which is a C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7328">TS</a>]
02:02:14 ◼ ► Program that runs your you know what I mean like it's a fuzzy line but I think Erling and Haskell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7334">TS</a>]
02:02:19 ◼ ► and other kind of things where you express operations in such a high level that there's no way to control any sort like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7339">TS</a>]
02:02:26 ◼ ► the parallelism may either be nonexistent or like pervasive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7346">TS</a>]
02:02:29 ◼ ► and you just you know you know sort of the preconditions in the post conditions in a language you guarantee you that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7349">TS</a>]
02:02:34 ◼ ► and you're not concerned with how outperforms of things if you can get that kind of implicit parallelism built into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7354">TS</a>]
02:02:40 ◼ ► language whole classes of problems that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7360">TS</a>]
02:02:43 ◼ ► but that regular sort of run of the mill programmers are afraid to tackle with concurrency now even though they totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7363">TS</a>]
02:02:48 ◼ ► have the tools to do it. Become open to them in the same way the G.C.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7368">TS</a>]
02:02:52 ◼ ► Has opened up parallelism to people who otherwise wouldn't try have been part of this great library G.C.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7372">TS</a>]
02:02:58 ◼ ► Previously able to run on the main thread but it's so easy for me not to run the main thread out of throw it off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7378">TS</a>]
02:03:02 ◼ ► and those people learn that actually you can screw yourself doing that too you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7382">TS</a>]
02:03:05 ◼ ► But like it's it's all about lowering the bar to whatever powers in the my willing to attempt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7385">TS</a>]
02:03:11 ◼ ► and feel confident is going to work and if you can bake things like that into the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7391">TS</a>]
02:03:15 ◼ ► or into a library that's so much a part of the language it seems like the language. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7395">TS</a>]
02:03:19 ◼ ► It lets more people do parallels and more you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7399">TS</a>]
02:03:22 ◼ ► Yeah I don't know I guess I'm I'm much more of an optimist that there are still tons of room for improvement with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7402">TS</a>]
02:03:31 ◼ ► With the same language in that you don't need to throw out the entire language and the entire existing A.P.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7411">TS</a>]
02:03:36 ◼ ► To get progress in a lot of these fronts people are asking for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7416">TS</a>]
02:03:38 ◼ ► and I think that's you know you're right that if you if you make it like part of the syntax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7418">TS</a>]
02:03:43 ◼ ► and part of the native way of doing things then it certainly can go deeper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7423">TS</a>]
02:03:46 ◼ ► but I just think there's so much more we can do and I think it's one of the reasons why Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7426">TS</a>]
02:03:53 ◼ ► and probably has a pretty long future because there is so much more you can do with just libraries and. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7433">TS</a>]
02:04:00 ◼ ► Changes and maybe a little help from the editor and the tools are written in very a court date. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7440">TS</a>]
02:04:07 ◼ ► In all other ways a court date is yet another way to try to deal with like large troughs of data that you can rummage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7447">TS</a>]
02:04:15 ◼ ► and they had to have a different model of its kind of like go around not really like a link like you don't call the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7455">TS</a>]
02:04:21 ◼ ► database you mention as predicate it's an object store it lets you know that probably didn't run at many different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7461">TS</a>]
02:04:28 ◼ ► times never I think at the language level I think maybe link is closer to God even though it's not language levels like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7468">TS</a>]
02:04:33 ◼ ► flies on language features but it's language integrated. That's what it says in the day you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7473">TS</a>]
02:04:39 ◼ ► But is it language and if I don't you know I know it's like yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7479">TS</a>]
02:04:44 ◼ ► Problems here having more tools to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7484">TS</a>]
02:04:48 ◼ ► and a problem having a language help you in that regard can let you try new solutions those solutions may not be better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7488">TS</a>]
02:04:53 ◼ ► or worse than what came before but at least opens up the door [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7493">TS</a>]
02:04:56 ◼ ► and I think I don't know enough about these highly parallel languages to know like we're given an early expert on here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7496">TS</a>]
02:05:01 ◼ ► they would explain what it is specifically about her lying that makes it so much better than doing the same things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7501">TS</a>]
02:05:07 ◼ ► any other language because the language was designed with concurrency in mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7507">TS</a>]
02:05:12 ◼ ► but I'm convinced enough from what I have from things that I read about language that that is the case it's just that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7512">TS</a>]
02:05:17 ◼ ► or lying is so much worse that everything else that people want to do with programs that it hasn't really caught the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdRiCt_Q/7517">TS</a>]