The Accidental Tech Podcast

59: The Little Puck That Could


  I saw the the Ashton Kutcher Jobs movie finally because it was free and flicks. [TS]

  I did as well and it was actually well you go ahead you go ahead. [TS]

  It sounds like you're about to give it a semi decent review I think one of the most frustrating things about it is that [TS]

  even if you ignore some of the some of the little inaccuracy that ends it seemed overall to get the big stuff right. [TS]

  Even if you ignore all that it's not even a good movie because it takes like two hours. [TS]

  And right towards the end in like the last fifteen minutes they have this eight second montage that covers the entire [TS]

  time span from when he was fired from Apple to when Apple bought next [TS]

  and so not only to the gloss over a pretty significant part of Steve Jobs his life and career [TS]

  but it was also like here's the big gloom and doom Apple is failing. [TS]

  It showed all of that into eight seconds to mount a show like it appears chronological it like as you're watching a [TS]

  movie it's like here's Apple here's the big villain Apple firing Steve Jobs because they think they know better. [TS]

  And then eight seconds later Apple's you know on the floor dying and they need him [TS]

  and they beg him to come back somehow and he somehow save them. [TS]

  You know like they it's not even good storytelling because they just kind of like snap their fingers [TS]

  and all of a sudden everything's fine again. It clearly was done down which is as you would expect. [TS]

  But given that everyone handed in said it was like the worst thing committed to film ever. [TS]

  I didn't think it was nearly that bad. [TS]

  As someone who has a reasonable amount of Apple history in my head I thought it was mildly enjoyable [TS]

  and the one thing I will say that was extremely positive was I feel like Ashton Kutcher just nailed Jobs's walk [TS]

  and I didn't even know the job title. [TS]

  Nick walk and film watching Ashton Kutcher pace around the stage and whatnot and I don't know why [TS]

  but it just really reminded me of the one W.D.C. [TS]

  I saw where job or jobs was there and he just has this weird like gate to him that I never noticed before. [TS]

  Yeah I mean I give them credit. [TS]

  I agree that the movie was not as bad as I thought it would be based on what people were saying about it. [TS]

  But back when it came out but to be clear it was not good but it was not terrible. [TS]

  It seemed like they worked so hard to get overall details right [TS]

  and then just blew some of the really easy ones that they could've gotten right you know with no additional cost [TS]

  or anything that they could have got these things right and they didn't but you know more. [TS]

  Moreover I was just kind of annoyed that it was just weird so weirdly paced [TS]

  and that you know they if they want to tell the story in detail they could have you know glossed over certain parts of [TS]

  it faster [TS]

  or you know added ten minutes to the movie to you know to get it to get a little more detail into the story as to how [TS]

  these things happened you know that whole middle era you know maybe do a forty five second montage instead of an eight [TS]

  second montage something like it just seemed like there was a lot of low hanging fruit that they could have grabbed to [TS]

  make to make it a better movie and the and for whatever reason they didn't. Now John did you see this movie. [TS]

  No nor do I plan to but just got the Sorkin one left to endure [TS]

  and then to clear this for a little while this is true and as K.G. [TS]

  Points out Tom Bombadil is an even esteemed Jobs movie. It is totally unacceptable. [TS]

  Who is well I don't even know if you were just going to keep going we got one of those every show guys that may have [TS]

  been the one for the show. Good job so do we want to do any follow up. [TS]

  We do we always do we always do John would you like to do some follow up care for a spit a far post from Mike the eye [TS]

  roll or from last week. He sent an e-mail with some clarification a bit from the e-mail. Here's a. [TS]

  Things you mentioned the bar is set to hide you know everything about gender issues [TS]

  or anything else you guys talk about that aren't core expertise [TS]

  but that's exactly what I was trying to get out of my feedback. [TS]

  If to hide any sort of knowledge about gender issues beyond what is observable in our lives then yes I set the bar too [TS]

  high. I don't think any of the three of you would accept that in any sort of technical field. [TS]

  Women in the workplace is probably one of the most studied sociological topics of our generation [TS]

  and want to learn about it just like they can learn about C.P.U. Design. [TS]

  I think we very much agree on this topic I was just trying to point out this doesn't need to be some sort of nebulous [TS]

  idea that can only be solved by talking through it. There is data supported answers out there. [TS]

  Basically I thought his first email about the eye rolling we start to talk about this topic was that he thought we had [TS]

  met whatever bar he was setting as I go boy you go you guys go start [TS]

  and talk about this thing they don't know anything about and not to speak for you too [TS]

  but I certainly pass the test of the bar of having any sort of knowledge I have read tons about this all over the place [TS]

  like this. [TS]

  Blogs articles flame wars for years and years like I have I feel like I have read a lot of us [TS]

  but that's all informal like you know just on the internet but I've definitely definitely crossed that bar. [TS]

  That's pretty setting it too [TS]

  and as for like the the whole idea that like we don't need to just talk about it as sort of vague concepts like the [TS]

  data out there [TS]

  and there's things you can learn stuff like that during the whole conversation of sexism of the past two shows I've [TS]

  been intentionally avoiding vocabulary that I know is sort of that are sort of you know terms that are common within [TS]

  this topic right now for two reasons one the people who are familiar with those terms I didn't want to use them because [TS]

  using them sort of slots into people's brains in certain areas if I say certain words they mean they think they know [TS]

  that we're on the same page we may be talking about different things so by entirely avoiding those words I was forced [TS]

  to explain myself you know in sort of plain language [TS]

  or from first principles of the out relying on jargon that we may or may not agree on the meaning of. [TS]

  And two was if I use those words a shorthand jargon then I'm not communicating with the people who don't know any of [TS]

  those words. So that way. [TS]

  I had to stop myself many times from saying the words that all the people into the conversation probably expected to [TS]

  hear [TS]

  and maybe some people heard that interpreted as these guys don't know the talking about they don't even know the vocabulary [TS]

  I definitely didn't have a cab there but I was consciously avoiding it I don't know if that was a good move [TS]

  or a bad move but it's what I chose to do [TS]

  and I think I think it's for the best because in a topic like that where there's less expectation that our listeners [TS]

  have the same background I get we can use terms about C.P. [TS]

  Using an Apple jargon stuff because presumably people know more about that [TS]

  but this topic was a far afield that I want to just talk about it using you know just regular vocabulary to describe [TS]

  things and to be honest I'm not even familiar with what vocabulary you were dodging [TS]

  but I would hazard a guess that it is probably for the best that you did indeed force yourself to explain yourself the [TS]

  entire time you do you know about as a handle I get I mean I didn't say the word ally I didn't use the word privilege [TS]

  like you know those like any of them are going to get it all sorts of even fancier terms but like [TS]

  when you say any of those things people people sort of click into whatever little slot they have in their brain for [TS]

  those terms and then sometimes you get out of whack [TS]

  and I think it's better to just explain things the second bit of follow up is that after talking about Oculus [TS]

  and Facebook buyout my glabrous should we also mention the passion is now working for Oculus instead of valve which is [TS]

  kind of a bummer for valve because they were working on V.A.R. Stuff as well but hey what can you do. [TS]

  So now it's car McNabb rush back together again trying to change the future of course. [TS]

  People get excited about that is like all those guys they did so much together earlier in their careers like now it's [TS]

  like two old men doing it [TS]

  and it's kind of like what me expect next revolution run by two young men another begrudging the old man as of being an [TS]

  old man myself like you know hey we can still do stuff we saw stuff in us [TS]

  but it's kind of weird that like these people who brought us the revolution of three D. [TS]

  First person you know hard work so I read it three games are now trying to bring it to the next red revolution as well. [TS]

  Well instead of it being the next generation you know what I mean so that's I think is a testament to these two guys [TS]

  and it's a little bit weird like you know I expect that was the thing with like scientists there is I go you done all [TS]

  your best work by the time you're twenty or thirty you never have a second big breakthrough [TS]

  or whatever the cliche is I don't know that's true in technical field open Steve Jobs certainly had two very big acts [TS]

  in his life one very early and one much later so maybe this is the new normal. [TS]

  I think it actually could be really nice to have people with a lot of experience and wisdom [TS]

  and who are real experts in their field which these two guys. [TS]

  By all measures are to be tackling the problem because the art has been tried so many times in the past [TS]

  and it has failed so many times in the past that like the league they were around for all those failures in the [TS]

  ninety's and beyond like they were they saw all those things they might have tried some of those things [TS]

  or started developing for some of those things and they've seen all of these failed attempts [TS]

  and so having that wisdom in people who are working on the new thing rather than just some twenty year old is going to [TS]

  recreate all the same mistakes over and over again like Unix [TS]

  and Lisp that it's that will benefit the effort I think tremendously. [TS]

  It's kind I think lot of the guys result oversea doing go like they have the experience. [TS]

  I think my favorite thing both about go and about like Oculus stuff is that these guys are Russian comic. [TS]

  They're not like the C.E.O.'s are like they're not building like a team or like comics [TS]

  and they're writing code like you doing the same thing I mean I was in a slightly higher level but more [TS]

  or less doing the same thing he's writing code he hasn't like just travel up that like now I'm big powerful [TS]

  and I run the company I'm a venture capitalist and I'm a master of the universe is there in keyboard typing code right. [TS]

  And that's refreshing. [TS]

  Mike average is going to be Don't like they're going to be writing code they're so refreshing to see that you don't [TS]

  have to like the only path is like you have the beginning you write COBOL and you move on [TS]

  and you do you become like the C.E.O. or The C.T.O. [TS]

  I mean I think the titles probably are something like that but I do. Do you John Crumb I could be writing code. [TS]

  That's why he's a hero to so many programmers that you know even now is an old man he's still getting it done [TS]

  and then what else about Oculus and Kickstarter. [TS]

  One more feedback feedback from another person in my call probably only get feedback from people in my from Michael now [TS]

  which is fine you know if I thought I was going to be were talking about the Oculus and Facebook [TS]

  and so as you guys are explicit almost exclusively characterize the outcry as being from jilted Kickstarter backers. [TS]

  Maybe I'm an edge case but many of my friends who don't share my extreme privacy concerns were also not backers [TS]

  and were nevertheless saddened by the Facebook news as well. [TS]

  So what are you getting out of so you don't think we talk enough about people who don't care one way [TS]

  or the other by Kickstarter backers or you know feel like they've been betrayed [TS]

  but just basically people are creeped out by Facebook [TS]

  and are worried that now I don't I don't know that I guess they're worried about like Facebook ads being in their face [TS]

  and I'm not going to buy any product that's associated in any way with Facebook was Facebook Facebook is not careful of [TS]

  my personal information I feel like they're invading my privacy I mean maybe Marco can address this if he is afraid [TS]

  that I Google is constantly invading his privacy. [TS]

  Well I mean what is there really to address I mean Facebook now owns a company that has a lot of potential privacy [TS]

  invading stuff in the future. What else is new. [TS]

  I mean the fact is you know it's it's going to get increasingly more difficult. [TS]

  It already is very difficult now to try to live a life online [TS]

  and use modern technology without having your stuff be in some giant creepy company's database. [TS]

  That's just the reality of how we live you know you can you can go as I previously for two hours the full Stallman [TS]

  route which is you know increasingly like Albany to live in the woods [TS]

  and be off the grid like there it's it's becoming increasingly more disconnected from the rest of the world technology [TS]

  if you want to go that route. And so you know. [TS]

  If you want to try to avoid Facebook stuff Google stuff Apple stuff you know there's Amazon stuff. [TS]

  There's only so far you can run really. [TS]

  And so you know my my philosophy with these things though it has been as I said on the on a previous show used to keep [TS]

  a healthy distance like not to be totally off these things not to be totally invisible not to try to conceal my [TS]

  identity from these companies but that's mostly a waste of time they probably know more than you think. [TS]

  Or they can infer what you don't tell them based on your other behavior [TS]

  but you know I think it's important for people to be healthily skeptical of these companies [TS]

  and critical of these companies and to point out things like hey you know what X. or Y. [TS]

  Is going to really give them a lot of information about you [TS]

  or they're going to use the information they have a need to do X.Y.Z. [TS]

  and Those are all kind of weird and creepy and maybe we don't want that that's fine but I think we have to admit [TS]

  and realize that's just the world we live in and that that's going to happen and we just have to keep tolerating it [TS]

  and making a stink where we can [TS]

  but it's we're not going to always win every case of Oculus though it seems weird to me because like just because [TS]

  Facebook does its main product that we all know about is you know not privacy everything it doesn't mean that that's [TS]

  there that's the only way they know how to do it. [TS]

  Like any product they get they're going to meet or they suck into the Borg and make it you know show Facebook ads [TS]

  and play Facebook games to see your private personal information [TS]

  and Oculus is so far removed from Facebook the product the Web site that [TS]

  when you go to receive pictures of your friends and stuff that there's not even a line you can draw on dotted [TS]

  or otherwise it says and therefore our Facebook wall [TS]

  and we are like they're obviously special in the short term Oculus is going to make a thing you put on your face to [TS]

  play first person games [TS]

  and I can imagine it having any connection for years to anything having to do with getting any personal information to [TS]

  any degree greater than say what Steam does now or anything else like it just it doesn't seem connected [TS]

  and so like to me. [TS]

  They say Facebook blog and therefore I'm never going to end it with Oculus that seems way premature to be like. [TS]

  Sure don't use it if they doing something you don't like [TS]

  or if they could potentially be doing something you know like you're not sure [TS]

  but it just seems like they're not connected at this point I mean I don't use Facebook I'm not I have a Facebook [TS]

  account but I don't use it for anything. [TS]

  I'm just not into it [TS]

  but it doesn't mean that I automatically assume that every company Facebook acquires will suddenly be pulled into [TS]

  exactly the same sort of privacy destroying vortex that their main [TS]

  or their flagship product is in a new sponsor this week called to check out number two [TS]

  and the word Check out with no spaces in the middle and the C. Is capitalized. [TS]

  I don't know how many of those things are important [TS]

  but just know it's the number to follow I work check to check out is one of the largest global brands in online [TS]

  payments there for example they compete with the likes of Pay Pal Braintree [TS]

  and stripe you probably heard of all of them to check out simplify selling across the globe with a localized checkout [TS]

  experience they really focus on this worldwide thing so they adapt to local languages currencies [TS]

  and payment methods specializing in fifteen languages and cultures [TS]

  and available in one hundred ninety six countries over a hundred of the most relevant shopping carts [TS]

  and many of the largest economies platforms have chosen to integrate with to check out even some that advertise here to [TS]

  check out has launched a new payment A.P.I. [TS]

  That allows you to control the checkout experience you can you can put your brand all over it if you want to with one [TS]

  integration. Just integrate with to check out. [TS]

  And by doing that you will get accepting twenty six currencies you get top payment method year State of the art fraud [TS]

  system with over three hundred Euro stakes that they've come up with in the industry and new ones added frequently [TS]

  and enhanced recurring billing features if you want to have a subscription priced good or service. [TS]

  They have nice recurring billing features Now all this is available to their payment A.P.I. A.P.I. [TS]

  Libraries are available in P.H.P. Python Ruby docs. [TS]

  That Java node [TS]

  and even simple rest requests that you can try out with her on the command line visit to check out dot com slash K.C. [TS]

  Now this. Yeah you gotta see this page here. Don't don't take it any further. [TS]

  It is an exercise for the listeners it is hysterical. [TS]

  You should really check it out it will be worth your thirty seconds to look at this page and look at the animation. [TS]

  Yes or go to to the number two in the word check out to check out dot com plus K.C. [TS]

  To sign up for a free developer sandbox account and see for yourself how how great this is. [TS]

  Once again to check out dot com slash Casey thank you very much but I wish these services existed [TS]

  when I was running e-commerce sites. [TS]

  Yeah we had modems that would dial the credit card companies like over phone lines [TS]

  and we had multiple ones that were using wrangling like you talk about D.P.S. and Stuff in your blog post Margo. [TS]

  Imagine wrangling analog modems in Iraq in a data center. [TS]

  Not fun and your old Yami even even just a few years ago like when I [TS]

  when I built the DE Instapaper subscription thing that was probably an I don't know twenty ten something like that. [TS]

  Even then these things for you that you couldn't do secretion build like this so I had to use Pay Pal which I hated. [TS]

  It was awful in every possible way [TS]

  and I would never recommend using Pay Pal for anything to anybody especially subscriptions which is specially bad at [TS]

  and that's saying a lot because Pay Pal is pretty bad a lot of things but it's it's especially bad at this. [TS]

  Right so Amazon decided to get into the console T.V. Sort of game today and they released the Amazon Fire T.V. [TS]

  Which apparently involves neither terminations of employment nor flames. [TS]

  We call call these television parks but a name for this category. [TS]

  I don't know I don't know if it's ever been used before but I dig it. So let's go with it. [TS]

  I don't know puck to me seems round it's like a slice of it. So owner would be a puck. [TS]

  How would you describe the shape. Well this is not a park like but the Roku and Apple T.V. [TS]

  Are [TS]

  and they kind of define the first segment so now I am that's what I think that's why Amazon thing looks like about well [TS]

  two reasons one because it's cheaper to build that way and I was a lot of things to be cheap [TS]

  and to it's visually distinct from the two other big market leaders to be an oracle. [TS]

  Fair enough it is it is a rectangular solid state of actually the square I don't know from the top of the square it [TS]

  looks like it or it either way I think you're right it looks like all the edges are hard angles and it is just a box. [TS]

  I think think of an Apple T.V. but Not rounded in anything just flat side six flat sides not around to direct. [TS]

  Although I like the Roku and the Chromecast because it's remote does not need line of sight. [TS]

  You don't have to put it anywhere you can see it and that is nice. [TS]

  Yes I like it so much so one of the attributes of the thing only went over them on Twitter Mark OK how is it [TS]

  distinguished from the apple theory. [TS]

  Basically it's I mean it's not as a thing which you might think it has a lot of the same Absalom the same billet is [TS]

  it's the same price. It's the same category of device. [TS]

  Many of the same you know channel kind of things [TS]

  but the biggest difference they put in beefier hardware into it so we can play games. So that's one thing. [TS]

  So it has more RAM bigger C.P.U. [TS]

  Probably And it also has this remote that if it works the way they advertise could be pretty cool because it is a [TS]

  Bluetooth remote. [TS]

  So doesn't need line of sight and it has voice input [TS]

  and you can apparently search by voice for what you're looking for which will be really nice. [TS]

  So you know all that to me. [TS]

  Oh and they're selling an extra like game controller for it which John I'm sure you'll have a lot to say about maybe [TS]

  but to me the game's part of it is probably not that important because I just I don't know. I think. [TS]

  I could be totally wrong with this I think will will end up seeing what happens especially if Apple also makes like an [TS]

  upgraded Apple T.V. [TS]

  They can play games will see like how that market panned out of like the super cheap game box on T.V. [TS]

  That happens to be for the purposes kind of like the opposite of the X. [TS]

  Box approach where the X.-Box is like the big beefy gaming machine that happens to have media functionality also that's [TS]

  kind of a side effect of it. [TS]

  This is coming from the opposite direction this is like a media box that happens in a place and some games on. [TS]

  So we'll see if that takes off. [TS]

  Assuming that's irrelevant to you [TS]

  or it doesn't take off looking at just the media side of this I think you know you can look at this look at this [TS]

  landscape and none of them offer everything that's so true. [TS]

  If you want to buy anything from i Tunes You can only play it on the Apple T.V. [TS]

  If you want to watch things on Amazon streaming video you can't do that on Apple T.V. [TS]

  and Almost everything else can do it but he can't. And so that's the main disconnect. [TS]

  So if you want both Amazon Video and i Tunes compatibility you have to buy two devices. But don't forget H.B.O. [TS]

  Go which is not on the Amazon thing as you pointed out on Twitter right now Carrie and I don't I don't have that [TS]

  but a lot of people like it so yeah that's that in there so I think you know right now there is no one device that [TS]

  covers everything. Well you said true though I agree with you but it doesn't by virtue of the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Being able to receive airplay. Doesn't that to some degree make it an omnivore. [TS]

  Now yes it's no longer a standalone thing. I'm not arguing that at all. [TS]

  But for example to me I oftentimes find a use for airplay and I use it a lot. [TS]

  And so even though there's other boxes that I think I'd like like the Roku [TS]

  and even this is on fire box I keep coming back to no matter what I'm going to want to have an Apple T.V. [TS]

  Connected to my T.V. So I can do air play either streaming or mirroring. Well if I've already got this Apple T.V. [TS]

  Connected to my T.V. [TS]

  I can play Amazon Instant Video I'm assuming through their i Pad app or i Phone app I can use plaques [TS]

  and throw plex to the Apple T.V. [TS]

  and In the grand scheme of things I wanted Hill to have native plaques and support within the Apple T.V. [TS]

  but I can get pretty close by using my i Pad so it's not standalone which I wish it was [TS]

  but it's still sort of an omnivore. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and that's that's going to be a popular option I think a lot of people like our friend Jason Snell in chat says that he [TS]

  does Amazon's video using airplay to the Apple T.V. [TS]

  and He says quote It's not ideal but it works and I think you're right. [TS]

  That's you know no question I think you can do that you can do airplane. I think any robust home T.V. [TS]

  Solution if you're at if you have anything in the Apple ecosystem you're you are very well survey having Apple T.V. [TS]

  and I think if you want complete coverage I would say the Apple T.V. and The Amazon Fire T.V. [TS]

  Are probably going to be the that's going to be the combo that's good I think is going to is going to like for people [TS]

  who are going to have model boxset [TS]

  and that's going to be the company sets in because with Roku it seems like I've never used so maybe I'm missing the [TS]

  appeal but it seems like the Amazon Fire T.V. [TS]

  Pretty much encompasses all the benefits to get from a Roku another of who has cheaper models [TS]

  and an Amazon right now is not going cheaper than a hundred bucks which is surprising. [TS]

  But that's that's where they chose to go. [TS]

  So if you if you ignore the price difference between the cheaper of who's And this I would say you know you you cover [TS]

  basically everything with an Apple T.V. Plus the Amazon Fire T.V. [TS]

  and So I think that's really where people go who want to cover everything with the hardware. [TS]

  I don't have a Roco either but everyone I know has one says that it that it has tons of content [TS]

  and that they like it better than their Apple T.V.'s in terms of the end. [TS]

  That's in fact what I was going to say any other really neat thing about some if not all the modern Roku is is that [TS]

  they have a headphone jack on the remote and having never used a Roku. [TS]

  But I'm at least familiar enough to know that you can actually sit in bed for example. [TS]

  Maybe your wife or husband or whatever is passed out next to you but you're still watching T.V. [TS]

  and Keeping it quiet because you've plugged your ear buds [TS]

  or headphones into the remote which is you know within a foot of where you're sitting. And that's really cool. [TS]

  Yeah I'll give you that. [TS]

  So it all these things I think the real barrier may be the only barrier that Apple's put up is the whole ecosystem by [TS]

  anything because in the Amazon videos what they want to show you is like. [TS]

  And look you can have a second screen experience with X. Ray which is really cool like their X. [TS]

  Ray stuff is actually cool you know but your second screen experience like this or using your Kindle Fire [TS]

  and you can take a video with you and watch it on your fire and then resume and in watching on your big T.V. [TS]

  and It's like yeah but what I want to have an i Pad [TS]

  and I'm assuming Amazon bore them to come out with apps for the i Pad to do all these things but Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is big advantages. [TS]

  Hey you buy stuff on the i Tunes store and you've got on your i Pad and you've got it on your phone [TS]

  and you go I called all Apple's cloud stuff saying yeah you can only buy stuff on the i Tunes Store on Apple T.V. [TS]

  but Once you buy it there you can use it all you know as long as all your devices are Apple [TS]

  and Amazon want to say the same thing. [TS]

  Oh you can buy your stuff [TS]

  and you can use all your devices they're not going to force you to buy a can of are they going to try to be everywhere [TS]

  but maybe you don't want to have a Kindle Fire like like well I'd rather have an i Pad [TS]

  and it's kind of like Amazon can't Amazon doesn't have a top to bottom ecosystem [TS]

  or they've got a phone a tablet computer and and a T.V. Thing they just have a small portion of that it's pretty cool. [TS]

  Well they tried to be everywhere [TS]

  but it's kind of like it spreads them thin air whereas Apple's us like what we're going to make sure it's the best [TS]

  experience on your Apple T.V. [TS]

  and We're going to make that available on your mac and on your phone on your tablet [TS]

  and on whatever else we come out with. [TS]

  And that's tough to compete with that big ecosystem because I'm I'm going to I still want an i Pad instead of a Kindle [TS]

  Fire so there's no. [TS]

  Advantaged for me to get him is noble it has integration with a kind of farm I don't care about that you know I don't I [TS]

  don't care that my Apple T.V. [TS]

  Doesn't have Kindle Fire integration I don't and is not going to make me buy this to get you know so I feel better [TS]

  when they try to show that integration because it's like not a selling point [TS]

  but a couple of different other differences between the same empathy that I think are worth pointing out both good [TS]

  and bad. [TS]

  One is that this does have a warrant apparently at the power supply is not internal so you have to have another one as [TS]

  big plug shoving into the big power strip that's behind your entertainment center which is kind of annoying [TS]

  or kind of a shame since it does look like it's actually a little bigger than Apple T.V. [TS]

  We're just lucky to even include the AC adapter in the box. Yeah the R.F. [TS]

  Remote is great [TS]

  and embarrassing the Apple still does not have that you know I think it has no fan inside it someone's posted a link to [TS]

  an exploded view from the presentation it looks like there's no place for a fan in there [TS]

  and it makes sense if it's using like you know cell phone caliber parts that it would need to fan the box is plenty big [TS]

  to have you know passive cooling for the for the insides there but I think the whole reason this box [TS]

  and the Roku exist. [TS]

  It's Apple's fault for not making apple he better fast enough like the whole thing with Apple's i go they keep you know [TS]

  proving their products incrementally [TS]

  and before you know they're so far from where they've gone just look at how much more amazing the i Phone five is than [TS]

  the original i Phone. Sure that's for the products they care about but for these hobby products of Apple T.V. [TS]

  Has stagnated like crazy like it's ancient hardware [TS]

  and the software features like this is worse than like I was one point no one there oh you got a big grid of icons that [TS]

  you have limited control over [TS]

  and we keep adding new icons to it kind of sort of like think of how much better could be we should have search across [TS]

  all services. [TS]

  Voice support all these things that we see an apple all the apples other devices [TS]

  and I'm not asking for a thumbprint center on a remote [TS]

  but give us something like There's nothing that that Amazon a Roku has done that Apple couldn't have done years ago [TS]

  they just didn't and I don't know they're just not prioritizing it [TS]

  or if they have some other grand plan that is yet to be revealed [TS]

  and it will make sense that they've been you know like they're going for such a huge jump over what's come before it [TS]

  but they have not. Incrementally made Apple T.V. [TS]

  Better at a rate that is they've let competitors catch up to them [TS]

  and pass them in so many areas for for no good reason other than just not putting the resources toward that no good [TS]

  reason that we know of yet again if they come up with some like and here's our grand plan for T.V. [TS]

  and It's likely to unbalance beyond that it's like OK well it took them a while [TS]

  and that's where they were considering all they are right now just like they are letting people catch up with them [TS]

  and letting people do things that they should have done a long time ago. [TS]

  It's you know whether or not I buy one of these devices it's making me less satisfied with my Apple T.V. [TS]

  To know it's like come on Apple everyone else is doing this you've got your stupid you know. I.R. [TS]

  Remote no voice command telep terrible interface [TS]

  and occasionally as Merlin will point out occasionally I see the stupid little spinner [TS]

  and it gives me an obscure our message and I have to go unplug lamp T.V. and It annoys me and it makes me sad. [TS]

  So you love your Apple T.V. Is what you're saying. [TS]

  It's still my favorite Netflix clan I still go to internet place because it has no fan in it [TS]

  and because it's better than that sucks client built into my television which has to be on so that's its competition [TS]

  it's got to be on anyway so I could use it as a client [TS]

  and it's second place because it has no fan so what you think about this controller the game controller. [TS]

  I mean you can't you can't tell without holding it but it does not look good [TS]

  and the history of non gaming companies making game controllers is not good. [TS]

  So I'm assuming the game controllable not be all that wonderful at their gaming ambitions that kind of reminds me to [TS]

  remember that thing the kick started Android based console used on that thing also apparently had a terrible controller [TS]

  but like it's tough to break into the game business like especially We just want to go casual like oh [TS]

  and by the way I play games. [TS]

  You'll get like it's like being a mac gamer you get maybe if you're lucky you'll get a pop. [TS]

  The most popular three games from a couple years ago and other platforms that all real gamers have already played [TS]

  and maybe it'll be OK for you kids to play them [TS]

  and I know I am of the hired a bunch of gaming people to write games for their platform or whatever [TS]

  but I think I did something similar [TS]

  and it's like it's really difficult to to get critical mass in gaming you really need to be dedicated to it if you want [TS]

  to be like in like you know AAA papa. [TS]

  Again if you just want to be the kind of casual games then you competing with the i O. S. [TS]

  Ecosystem or you know like cell phone games [TS]

  and stuff that's difficult to do to the controllers are forty bucks each if you buy two controllers you're almost [TS]

  doubling the cost of the entire thing [TS]

  and they're not that appear not to be very good controllers from looking at how they're shaped [TS]

  and I can imagine shape aside that Amazon's first controller is up to the standards of a good controller from Microsoft [TS]

  Sony and Nintendo [TS]

  but also I mean it's a type of thing where it's like if they didn't do it it's just like Apple I mean [TS]

  and the Amazon way is like look we've got the hardware there you can play games we can still sell for ninety nine bucks [TS]

  why not I think it's a good move Dad and I think it's smart [TS]

  and it takes off fine if it doesn't then it's just another little thing that your T.V. [TS]

  Can do like there's so many things that are devices or go to our T.V. Can do like my T.V. Can do the T.V. [TS]

  Not anything else but just held in a cell can do like Amazon [TS]

  or Netflix I can stream from my phonology I can pull things from my mac like it does just the television does that like [TS]

  everything everything is Netflix built in tuner you can have Amazon Video built [TS]

  and everything is as support for a deal on a server as it just is just a question of which box you want to use [TS]

  and it's it's just you know who who has the exclusives well i Tunes stuff is only from Apple [TS]

  and Amazon seems to be pretty permits us but something like something like H.B.O. [TS]

  Go or only on certain platforms [TS]

  and it's just like it's enough already like they're not I'm glad there's a little bit of competition here to try to [TS]

  keep Apple honest and try to make their puck better get a really needs to be improved sometime soon [TS]

  but having more little pucks to connect to my T.V. Is not really solving my problem. [TS]

  Yeah and that's that's the frustrating part is you know because honestly this is a lot like cable T.V. [TS]

  It's like the entire T.V. [TS]

  Business always always has been and still is you know we we ask these tech companies Oh please come in [TS]

  and save us from bad T.V. Companies. [TS]

  But they're just doing the exact same thing which is company A has exclusive content X. You know Company B. Has it. [TS]

  Platform why. And all these things make it so that there is no like one good solution for everything. [TS]

  It's just it's annoying because you know these problems are pretty much doomed to happen you know because these [TS]

  business models because of just what happens with publishing content owning content you know making ecosystems on [TS]

  ecosystems it will never be in any these companies' best interests to make something that is actually good for us [TS]

  because they'll make it because somebody will have less control or make less money as a result of that. [TS]

  Well these cable companies like who you got your cable home for so you had a few choices but everybody offered to H.B.O. [TS]

  Maybe the prices vary slightly [TS]

  but you get you going to be an everywhere like there's no way if you lived where if you cable T.V. [TS]

  You couldn't get like H.B.O. Showtime E.S.P.N. M.T.V. Like you can always get those things. [TS]

  This the exclusive her money more like the game console space where like if you want to love to get a magazine console [TS]

  it's never going to be able to sell so you know Microsoft owns them right. [TS]

  Or pick whatever you know Mario and and oh [TS]

  and Sony games it's There was you know exclusives to try to bring to the platform [TS]

  and it would annoy like real hardcore gamers who have to buy multiple consuls just for the three [TS]

  or four games that were exclusives because they were good [TS]

  but there's a constant battle to see how many big players in the game console space can can be sustained. [TS]

  You can have fifty of them there's just not enough people are going to buy fifty console so the numbers seem to be [TS]

  around two or three and the T.V. [TS]

  Connected puck market we had apple and Roku basically and a couple of the people coming here [TS]

  and there so maybe it's going to be Amazon Apple [TS]

  and Roku I think you could probably sustain them with them jockeying for exclusive content [TS]

  but then you've got companies like Netflix that want to be everywhere that also are trying to get exclusive content [TS]

  but then they're selling house of house of cards to Comcast for on demand [TS]

  and it's it's a weird weird situation that hopefully going to resolve itself sometime in the next decade or two [TS]

  but right now it is everyone is jockeying for this and I think people better. [TS]

  Your position as hard as they can because if you don't you're slow I google it. [TS]

  Google doesn't have a pocket about Chromecast may have got their fibre T.V. [TS]

  Thing but they don't seem to be in the POC market at all [TS]

  and it could be that by the time the dust settles they are just fenced out by whoever the two [TS]

  or three big people who won that race are oh yeah I don't see that Google being present in this in this race at all [TS]

  because it's always been like you were not always obviously this is everything in tech is pretty young [TS]

  but it's been pretty obvious for a while that the online media market of you know video video content mainly is really [TS]

  a two horse race. It's Apple versus Amazon you know Microsoft has their own deals with like X. [TS]

  Box Live they used to have I don't know if they still do they probably do [TS]

  and you know Google has a couple of things in the Play Store and stuff or Google's got You Tube though [TS]

  and you would think like you know you choose not the same thing You Tube is just a bunch of videos there's not T.V. [TS]

  Shows [TS]

  but the amount of like video that my daughter now watches it's You Tube I think it's long since clips television she [TS]

  she watches you tube instead of watching television I don't know that's a trending thing and it will go away [TS]

  but You Tube can't be discounted. [TS]

  And I mean Amazon basically I mean Amazon and on [TS]

  and on Google is trying to do Google Video remember that before they bought You Tube Well they made their mother said [TS]

  yeah never mind we're going to we're going to buy You Tube but I mean [TS]

  and You Tube is everywhere You Tube is available on my T.V. Is available on my Apple T.V. [TS]

  I'm assuming it's available on Amazon things so Google kind of as a worthless race [TS]

  but not a hardware thing they don't have a talk. [TS]

  Well and it's probably not in Google's best interest to ever withhold You Tube from a platform and they had Google T.V. [TS]

  Like they did make they were the only people to actually try to do my own Everest boxing and I did a bad job of it [TS]

  and nobody liked it [TS]

  and it was never going to work because everybody entire industry hates the idea of such a thing even if it worked well [TS]

  which it didn't so that kind of went away. [TS]

  I don't know if they'll make another run at it but they were early [TS]

  and they were early with like a big giant platypus awkward thing and it didn't work out for them till they were done. [TS]

  Try now I don't I feel like all of this is really about licensing and I say that because the Amazon Fire T.V.. [TS]

  Isn't available outside the US right. I don't know that Amazon is historically very bad at non-U.S. [TS]

  Media availability precisely and so if this isn't available anywhere else [TS]

  and additionally I think you're right John in saying that we're just kind of running in circles around just getting [TS]

  streaming things to our T.V. [TS]

  In different ways but the only way I think there's going to be a monumental shift in how T.V. [TS]

  Works is if licensed licensing deals change so for example I can go online and order a league [TS]

  or a season pass for getting the New York Giants on my Apple T.V. [TS]

  and May be off to pay for that and that's fine but I don't need to worry about whether [TS]

  or not they're playing the Redskins or what blackout situation there is. [TS]

  It's just I get to see the Giants always Or perhaps you know you could buy a season pass for How I Met Your Mother [TS]

  which obviously just ended but just for the sake of discussion you have met your mother [TS]

  and you can get those episodes either as they are live or moments after and I think without probably sports [TS]

  and if not sports more widespread stream a ball traditional T.V. [TS]

  or Game of Thrones is another great example of not seen it but I understand it's wildly popular [TS]

  and you can't get anywhere but the U.S. [TS]

  So without fixing them I don't really feel like any of these pucks are really going to make a tremendous difference in [TS]

  our worlds but fixing that as you said John is just a total bag of hurt. [TS]

  Well the pucks to the pucks are important because the pucks give you something they can get better at a faster rate [TS]

  than your television and that is extremely important as well [TS]

  and one of the Apple four is like they have that advantage [TS]

  and they're not taking advantage of they have three generations of the puck [TS]

  or maybe only two generations of the little Black Hawk before they went from the big giant crazy thing like of Iowa [TS]

  space Apple T.V. and They haven't made it better at the same. [TS]

  It's like the slowest moving i Pod Touch I complain about. [TS]

  It's been like five hundred days since an update but like Apple T.V. [TS]

  The ten update wasn't that long ago but it was like a nothing update and they keep channels [TS]

  but like How far as I was itself [TS]

  or the i Phone come in that same distance this obvious features that their competitors are getting I mean an hour mode [TS]

  Voice Search notion U.I. Games support anything like all these things with there for the taking and not taking it like. [TS]

  And so I'm glad to see the parks out there trying like a broker who has improved its hardware and software by leaps [TS]

  and bounds of the same period Apple has not and this is Amazon's first go [TS]

  but these little parks give the market an opportunity to churn. [TS]

  You know it's cheaper now you know about that you can buy a new one of these every two years not feel bad about it [TS]

  and you're not going to buy a new T.V. Every two years unless you're me. [TS]

  It lets it lets them chase each other make the tech better make it faster maybe maybe it is more fun to game consuls [TS]

  maybe they don't like maybe these things get better than the T.V. [TS]

  when They reach a certain point [TS]

  but like getting a better new television like the worst thing that could happen at this point because you want these [TS]

  guys to compete [TS]

  and aerated iterate to get through this awkward beginning period just to kind of settle down to like the feature set [TS]

  and you know if they end up being gaming devices they can never settle down because games we always need more power for [TS]

  like you'll never say well this game consuls good novel uses the next twenty years you will not it will not be good [TS]

  enough for twenty years like do you want the newest thing eventually so I'm glad these parks exist as an external thing [TS]

  but like it's not going to be some consolidation coming and I think is going be a long way off. [TS]

  You mentioned sports with a local blackout that's probably not going to go away in our lifetime just because of the [TS]

  huge amount of money in local television that's going to take forever to get rid of [TS]

  and so there's so many barriers to actually you know if you can just wipe the slate clean [TS]

  and say we have the internet pretend there is no pre-existing video let's make a system built on it you could build [TS]

  something that's nice and even and gives consumers choice [TS]

  and as competition never get every content they want for a reasonable price but we don't live in that world. [TS]

  We're going to transition from what we have now to take a long time you know I completely agree [TS]

  but is there someone is there a sport that like Team Mobile where they're just seriously desperate to get viewers [TS]

  and it's like I think the A M L B is done this and also N.H.L. [TS]

  To some degree I guess from what I'm told I'm not a baseball nor hockey fan [TS]

  but from what I gather they're there streaming apps and plans and so on and so forth are actually fairly good [TS]

  and I think there are still black outs for sure but they're relatively future looking [TS]

  and I'm wondering obviously the N.F.L. [TS]

  Never got to this point but wellness all this stuff about concussions actually people pay attention to it [TS]

  but anyway you know maybe maybe the young L.B. [TS]

  For the sake of conversation get so desperate that they're like you know what screw the local channels let's just do [TS]

  this right. [TS]

  I'm always going to be the last one to divert from OK maybe I was a poor choice [TS]

  but you know what I'm driving at right is there any sport like that yellow there's W W E which I read an article by [TS]

  recently that's a sport Well you know I get it. [TS]

  It's entertainment anyway like [TS]

  and they embrace the Internet as a way to get their content to their viewers because they couldn't get a challenge of [TS]

  trying to get like a channel or wrestling channel on cable naked getting a rebuff so they go on the Internet. [TS]

  There's also e-sports which is watching people play video games for people who don't know the terminology I think of [TS]

  getting it right that's what I call e-sports anyway. It's wildly popular in other countries. [TS]

  It's somewhat popular here. That's a natural medium for the Internet Twitch T.V. [TS]

  and All that stuff incredibly popular among a certain set of people. [TS]

  Yeah there's an opportunity for for sports markets that aren't [TS]

  or in any way to send a video to people that don't have a president regular television aren't entangled in these crazy [TS]

  relationships for things like baseball and football and you know in the rest of the world I don't know that there are. [TS]

  The world is like for soccer and everything [TS]

  but I suppose if you wait for the current generation of people to all die maybe two generations [TS]

  and for people to die then people won't care about watching things on local television anymore [TS]

  and I'll just be so incensed that they can't watch their local team on their i Pad that it will just have to change. [TS]

  But certainly for the people who are alive today you got to wait for pretty much all everyone who was an adult [TS]

  when the Internet came into being to die before we can get like a local television out from the local television [TS]

  markets for things like baseball because like how much money the Yankees make from selling exclusive rights to local [TS]

  television broadcast their games is just enormous. [TS]

  Yeah I know you're right I'm just I kind of hope for some sport that's the sporting equivalent of T. [TS]

  Mobile to be so desperate to just shake things up to just say you know what screw T.V. [TS]

  Let's in I think W W E was actually very good example where you just say Screw T.V. [TS]

  Let's do it our way and see what happens [TS]

  and I don't think there's going to be anyone that people care enough about kind of like T. [TS]

  Mobile to really get a groundswell to push the N.F.L. or M L B or whatever into being more progressive. [TS]

  See what happens with the mobile first strategy seems to be employed Altucher point for point. [TS]

  Nigga still he's doing things that that at launch sound like oh my God this is this is really going be a big deal [TS]

  and then ends up just not really being a big deal [TS]

  but because there are I mean there are barriers infrastructure it's like you know they would never do that if they had [TS]

  the cell towers that horizon but if they had the cell towers that Verizon has they wouldn't you know need to do that [TS]

  and it's just it's a chicken egg thing so I think it's good that you have you know competitors who need to do more [TS]

  radical things [TS]

  but it doesn't it doesn't solve their sort of structural weakness like suddenly your signal doesn't get better [TS]

  depending on where you live you know you just there's no getting around physical structure the wires to the old houses [TS]

  or cell towers. Thanks because cell tower that put piece somewhere way down a topic that we happened to get to it. [TS]

  Here sponsor this week also once again by our friends at Pixelmator also known as picks on the tour. [TS]

  A full featured image editing app for the mac now. Yes I know Photoshop exists. [TS]

  Most people don't need photoshop and Pixelmator does a lot of things not only the same but actually better [TS]

  and it costs a lot less and does a lot of cool stuff [TS]

  and it's really very Mac like so they just made a brand new three point two F. X. Update. [TS]

  It's a major upgrade featuring new powerful tools to play with they have a non-destructive layer style's which is a [TS]

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  and warp it and everything really powerful stuff here. [TS]

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  and this is you know one of the criticisms of other major EVs in the field is that they are very Mac like [TS]

  or they don't really integrate fully with the U.S. [TS]

  or They don't play nice when Apple releases new A P I's [TS]

  or they don't optimize Pixelmator is basically the opposite Pixelmator is it has full maverick support it had full [TS]

  maverick support as far as I remember like from day one of mavericks being out it's a ports file ties the ports [TS]

  multiple displays. [TS]

  It's very it's very optimized for app nap [TS]

  and the power management stuff in Maverick So if you're going out on a laptop which most people will be it's very very [TS]

  powerful. [TS]

  You can always see you can go to the battery shame meter as John says [TS]

  and you can see you know what programs are being shamed into using too much or because there's too much power. [TS]

  You can you can compare compute computing prospects [TS]

  and you can see Pixelmator really is very heavily optimized for power saving for all the new stuff. [TS]

  They also optimize it very heavily for the new MacPro So if you have a new macro new Pixelmator three point two F.X. [TS]

  Has dual G.P.U. Support with Open C.L. It supports sixteen bit images it has a special if I've often is ations. [TS]

  A lot of the nations for the P.C.I. Express as S.D. [TS]

  and For all the ridiculous memory bandwidth we get on the macro really great system here so pixilated three point two [TS]

  F.X. Was a free upgrade to all just in Pixelmator customers if you are not yet a Pixelmator customer go check it out. [TS]

  It is full featured image editing app for the mac going to Pixelmator dot com P C L and A.T.O. [TS]

  Are Pixelmator dot com to learn more Thanks a lot to Pixelmator for sponsoring our show once again. So the U.S.P.S. [TS]

  Consortium people have decided they would like a lightning connector you know [TS]

  and we actually talked about this back before they had an idea what it would look like back [TS]

  when they announced the U.S.B. [TS]

  If announced that they would be looking into this [TS]

  and creating a new kind of connector that would be small reversible [TS]

  and you know non sucky because everyone agreed to the U.S.B. [TS]

  Three plugs suck especially the many ones which are ridiculous. [TS]

  So they went off and I were going to buy one of these is going to come out soon. [TS]

  So this what's new now is that we now have a rendering of what it might look like from the U.S.B. [TS]

  If so I'm not sure if this is actually news or not what I think of News of it if it's accurate. [TS]

  Yeah like if they ran the rendering is not just fantasy but just like this is what we planned to build [TS]

  and we haven't built it yet but it's going to look like this when we build it. [TS]

  That's my impression of what this rendering is. [TS]

  Yeah pretty much and you know the rendering basically looks like the halfway point between lightning and mini U.S.B. [TS]

  or Micro U.S.B. Two. [TS]

  Well [TS]

  when we first talked about it I think I said that like it has to look like a lightning connector because what else can [TS]

  you do in anything that small it has to be like Oh I think that trees are so darn small Certainly you can't make it [TS]

  like a shrunken version of the regular U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector will work at those sizes which is why lightning looks like it does but then a. [TS]

  Bill said I think you guys about it like well lightning is expensive to make and you can't be as precious [TS]

  and beautiful Lightning connector has to be cheap for everybody to make I just think they can come up with a connector [TS]

  that was that small [TS]

  and also not pretty much exactly like a lightning connector like a solid piece of metal with contacts side [TS]

  and looks like from these drawings that they've somehow decided that they're going to make it the size [TS]

  and shape of lightning connector but still have it be hollow. [TS]

  So the in the connector slot is a little more must be a microscopic extremely thin little thing with contacts on it [TS]

  that goes into the hole in the connector in a grand and it fits both ways and it should be pretty easy to line that up. [TS]

  But boy I'm worried about that in terms of durability like [TS]

  but once you get down to that size the lighting had to make so much sense it's like it's going to be so small anyway [TS]

  you better make it solid for the kind of from the outside. [TS]

  I can't like I don't I will have to see the real I guess is conceivable that it could be done [TS]

  but I'm super worried about having to shove a little tiny thing inside a little tiny microscopic hole even if it fits [TS]

  both ways. [TS]

  Yeah I think about too that the Jack side of it is going to be on phones which means we're going to be in people's [TS]

  pockets get filled up with lint [TS]

  and the hat like to have the tolerances be so small like you know we saw some of this with the old thirty pin dock an [TS]

  actor which had a similar kind of design but it was larger of course was way bigger way bigger than this look. [TS]

  Yes but [TS]

  but you know you can see like OK if you have a really really thin you know flat car type you know connector on one side [TS]

  and then like you know a jack on the other side like you know cable doesn't get in there it's going to have weird [TS]

  contacts going to have weird you know pressure issues it might snap it or bended or whatever like [TS]

  and that was at that thickness for the dock connector that that actually happened didn't happen a lot [TS]

  but it did occasionally happen. At this this is an even smaller connector by a lot. [TS]

  It's narrower sibilant there's less area to bend and it just seems that looks like if they can. [TS]

  Old us off it's going to be great it's going to be [TS]

  and not as lightning because of that because of that you know more complicated physical design in the connector [TS]

  but if they actually pull this off great good for them. [TS]

  I just have doubts that they will be able to or that if they do I have doubts it'll be very durable. [TS]

  That's the big thing. [TS]

  I'm going to go around everyone's laptop or our Smart roll on these connectors on a stick by fingernail [TS]

  and there you go snap you know you can actually broken right interesting region there with different email snap every [TS]

  one of those who wants a little printed circuit board snaps that like it's such a small opening and dust [TS]

  and everything. The stopping small of any way that I think dust might might even be a problem. [TS]

  People who keep their like i Phones in their pocket now I don't know what gets shoved to the Lightning connector. [TS]

  But at least you got the full width [TS]

  and height of that connector this year less than having it something's less than half the width of that connector can [TS]

  get jammed in there because jammed between the internal tongue and the top [TS]

  or bottom that's you know that's a small margin there [TS]

  and what could that time be made out of such that it stiffen up to go into the little hole in the line up correctly. [TS]

  But not so stiff that I can break it off with my fingernail. Right and U.S.B. [TS]

  Also you know as we discussed previously one of the reasons why the U.S.B. [TS]

  Centers were always so plain and bland [TS]

  and crappy is because one of their design goals has always been to be very very cheap [TS]

  and that's one of the reasons why U.S.B. Has become universal. [TS]

  Why live a little to its name because it was really cheap to implement and the harbours are really cheap [TS]

  and the connectors Rob really cheap [TS]

  and there are you know the tolerances were pretty big in some of these things that you could make a pretty whacked out [TS]

  connector or cable and it would still work. [TS]

  And obviously as things get better faster more advanced that you know the tolerances are going to have to shrink [TS]

  and get tighter [TS]

  but this I am I'm afraid to see how this will be implemented badly because it will be everything the U.S.B. [TS]

  Standard ever U.S.B. [TS]

  Standard becomes implemented badly among a lot of devices that are out there [TS]

  and you're going to buy like a ten dollars card reader or a fifteen. [TS]

  Our external drive enclosure or something like those are going to have not the best quality connectors on them [TS]

  and if this becomes a new standard which you know if it doesn't it's kind of pointless. [TS]

  You kind of want to become the standard. All those super cheap U.S.B. [TS]

  Devices out there that work that are part of what makes us be so great. [TS]

  Those are going to have some really dodgy connectors I think I think about this I think about this is the present Apple [TS]

  devices which I think we would all agree have extremely precise cut outs for the connectors on them like a laser cut [TS]

  things that usually line up pretty darn well. [TS]

  But Apple also has a tendency to you know design it's things without regard to connectors so for example on the back of [TS]

  a twenty seven inch thunderbolt display or any of those curved displays they have U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports on the back but the back is curved [TS]

  but the ports obviously have to be you have to plug the plugs in perpendicular to the connector [TS]

  and these are big chunky full size U.S.B. Know the a type connector like you know regular U.S.B. [TS]

  Connectors very often I find it difficult to plug in the connectors because you're not sure what angle it supposed to [TS]

  go out and I've seen Apple displays where people have done that struggle like trying to get the thing plugged in [TS]

  and not that they've suddenly bent the little plastic thingy that's inside a U.S.B. [TS]

  Connectors to make makes it even more difficult to plug it in because now it's kind of like bend in the wrong direction [TS]

  he had to kind of get past that little threshold to go in and these are the big humongous chunky U.S.B. [TS]

  Connectors that they have they haven't broken. But they're knowing to plug in because you have to line something up. [TS]

  And by people struggling with it they've made it worse by bending something in the wrong direction this is going to be [TS]

  that same problem on Apple devices anyway multiplied many times over by the way I know this is a ridiculous thing to [TS]

  complain about but try having a cylindrical computer it's actually substantially worker. [TS]

  Oh you have if you had to guess what angle they have to go and I don't like you deserve it. I do you're right. [TS]

  If you're having trouble with this when you can get it. It's under my way whether or not your hand. [TS]

  But like the beauty of the Lightning connector is that if you can find the hole just start shoving [TS]

  and it will align itself like there's nothing you have to line up it within the hole you have to get the metal thing [TS]

  into the slot and just press and it will it will light self up which is not true of U.S.B. [TS]

  or Firewire eight hundred even worse like five or eight hundred connector needs to be burned with fire I guess. [TS]

  So hard to plug things into they have so many little details that have to be lined up. [TS]

  Try pulling on one of those in the back of an apple Thunderball display most of that is Apple's fault [TS]

  but I'm just saying like a connector that can tolerate that type of environment is best [TS]

  and I'm not sure about this one. [TS]

  We're also sponsored this week once again by our friends at Warby Parker where we park a believe that prescription [TS]

  eyeglasses simply should not cost three hundred dollars or more. [TS]

  They should even be affordable enough people to accessorize [TS]

  and have multiple pairs if they want to worry Parker bypassing the traditional channels. [TS]

  They sell higher quality better looking prescription eyewear online at a fraction of the price starting at just ninety [TS]

  five dollars. Go to Warby Parker dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  You know I actually we did a sponsor last week some people in the chat were pointing out that I didn't realize it's [TS]

  like almost every eyeglass store [TS]

  and almost every company is owned by like one big company like looks like I think it's in any way. [TS]

  It's like I didn't realize a quite how much consolidation there is in this business but worry Parker is independent [TS]

  and this is why to be able to bypass this tremendous distribution system by this conglomerate. [TS]

  I didn't say that in fact I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that [TS]

  but that's why they're able to do this because there's a huge monopoly power there [TS]

  and they're just bypassing completely [TS]

  and passing the savings along to you so they have these great vintage inspired designs with a contemporary twist. [TS]

  Every pair is custom fit and it comes with anti-reflective anti-glare polycarbonate prescription lenses [TS]

  and every pair comes with a hard case and a clean cloth there's no like weird at all [TS]

  and they don't start jacking up the price. If you start adding up the things you actually need. [TS]

  There's no like well you can get the base price model which sucks [TS]

  or you can get the one that you actually want it won't fall apart in two days for you know six hundred bucks. [TS]

  Nothing like that. [TS]

  Buying glasses online sounds like it would be risky so you know how would you know where the fit or how to look on you. [TS]

  Well they had you covered with these two pretty impressive things so number one it is tools on their site where you can [TS]

  use your webcam. [TS]

  You take a picture yourself you can take an overlay [TS]

  and it can show you exactly how the glasses will look on you right from the webcam [TS]

  and then they have this even better thing which is the home try on program. So here's how this works. [TS]

  You go to their site you pick out up to five pairs if you don't pick out all five they'll send you five anyway they'll [TS]

  take a picture for you. [TS]

  You pick out five pairs [TS]

  and they will send you the frames you can try on for free right in your home heating for a couple days if ever you need [TS]

  decide decided home askers living another walk around asking people to work whatever you want to do. [TS]

  Decide on whatever these frames you want and if you don't like any of them that's about decision too. [TS]

  But I bet you like one of them at least. So take out the one you want. [TS]

  Send them back the box and then you can place an order to have that with your prescription in it. [TS]

  All that is free there is no charge for the home Tran program they pay they pay to ship it to you. [TS]

  They pay to ship it back. [TS]

  All that very very simple very very good [TS]

  and you can do a couple of these if you want to if you don't find what you want the first time. [TS]

  Get another batch but I bet you're going to find what you want they have a great selection. [TS]

  They also have prescription [TS]

  and non-prescription polarized sunglasses which I love personally if you have if you only ever had a non-polar [TS]

  or sunglasses Trust me you don't know what you're missing so good where we park a dot com a RB why. [TS]

  P A R K E R dot com slash A.T.V. [TS]

  Check out their great selection of premium quality affordable eyewear and get your home trying to get risk free. [TS]

  Thanks a lot to worry Parker for sponsoring our show once again so we should probably at some point talk about this [TS]

  employee poaching thing. That seems to have started in the valley but spread quiet a long ways away from there. [TS]

  So what this is about is Apple and Google especially seem to be pointed at the most. [TS]

  But many companies I think the number was like twenty or thirty companies something like that were accused of [TS]

  and from all accounts seem to have tried to avoid hiring from each other [TS]

  and made agreements that they would try to keep wages the same not hire from each other it really is extremely crummy [TS]

  And so this is false it's in trial now is that correct. Neither of us have been a no I don't know. [TS]

  I I don't know enough about this. Do we know for sure the articles I've read which admittedly have not been enough. [TS]

  I keep seeing it being referred to as a wage fixing cartel [TS]

  but I haven't actually seen anything about the way things have seen anti-poaching agreements which you know might have [TS]

  the effect of keeping wages down [TS]

  but is there actual were they actually agreeing to like keep salary levels at a certain range [TS]

  and the same thing has been labeling with a secondary effect [TS]

  but it's all it's all the same thing you can agree with a bunch of companies all can't agree with each other. [TS]

  I want I want higher from you [TS]

  and you want higher for me in that way we will have to pay our people more like us the implied secondary effect [TS]

  and it's actually even worse than that if you saw some of the e-mails I think it's going to be in trial now because I [TS]

  don't want to be seen as a one of them. [TS]

  One situation that was detailed in these it was either a deposition or e-mail or both. [TS]

  It was like a bunch of people left Apple and went to work for Google So Google didn't post them. [TS]

  They left apple of their own accord and went to work for Google [TS]

  and Google wanted to set them up I forgot the skills group be able to set them up doing something in an office [TS]

  somewhere. [TS]

  And before they did that they were in touch with Steve Jobs and say hey we've got some people here [TS]

  and they used to work for you [TS]

  and they want they want to set them up in an office here is that OK with you Steve I know you were close to these [TS]

  people whatever it is I want to make sure. [TS]

  And and they're like well you know they were talking myself I was one of those and I work in an i Phone stuff [TS]

  or whatever I bet it will be OK with Steve like. So first of all the whole premise that you have to call the C.E.O. [TS]

  Of your competitor to make sure that you are allowed to hire his employees who left of their own accord. [TS]

  It's crazy and then saying well we can we can hire them make sure they're not working [TS]

  and you know make Steve angry so we can have them work on mobile phone or anything like that. [TS]

  But surely if we agree they're not going to work in a mobile phone starts they will be OK with it [TS]

  or whatever in the end. [TS]

  Steve Jobs then so I said I would prefer you don't hire those people and so he didn't like it [TS]

  and they didn't put in the work and that office they were going to set up for them like that is that's crazy. [TS]

  That is super illegal and terrible handy competitive [TS]

  and just like what's going through these people's heads these companies are that this is the way things should be done [TS]

  that you know that you would like get the OK to look at what your employees are going to do [TS]

  or whether you're going to hire people from your like your fiercest competitor obviously this is maybe before they [TS]

  already tell this throat but it just make you sick to your stomach to think about that like these people's lives [TS]

  and careers are altered by the whim of like a person who runs the company they don't work for anymore. [TS]

  Right and the other thing I saw was that apparently Facebook basically said screw that tough no B.S. [TS]

  and Because of that apparently Google decided Well a lot of our people are going to Facebook [TS]

  and since we can't get Facebook to agree not to poach our people can we do. [TS]

  We should probably try to convince our people to stay although we could pay them more. [TS]

  That's what we could do [TS]

  and so they just they gave everyone I think in the entire company a thousand dollar spot bonus [TS]

  and raise salaries ten percent. [TS]

  I'm almost sure that's right it was in one of the links open the show notes [TS]

  but yet because they weren't poaching I'm sorry because they were poaching Facebook was poaching Google people. [TS]

  Google suddenly realized we should probably pay our people more. [TS]

  So markets your point earlier you know even though it may not enjoy saying this even though it may not on the surface [TS]

  sounds like wage fixing the net effect was wage mixing [TS]

  and this is totally like I mean this is not just an apple problem as many companies involved will [TS]

  and many others like them go get it is the most famous and they're in the headlines right [TS]

  but like regardless of all the other companies involved this is one hundred percent a Steve Jobs thing to do because in [TS]

  his mind like he's like look I'm trying to do great things here and I need great people do great things [TS]

  and you stealing my people piss me off [TS]

  and makes harder for me to do great things so why don't we all captains of industry get together just agree not to [TS]

  steal each other's people because it'll make everybody's life easier we all hate it now finally we can get back to work [TS]

  which is basically putting Steve Jobs desires a desire to change the world Apple above the lives of all the employees [TS]

  of all these companies like we don't care if you can get make more money or you can move to a different city [TS]

  and get equal you know tech job like or a different country [TS]

  or whatever because I don't care about your mobility in your life I just care about doing great things [TS]

  and so my demands as C.E.O. [TS]

  Are trump all these employees and this is the way it should be [TS]

  and like someone in the chair asked why on earth would it would do go ask Apple if it was OK if they're legally in the [TS]

  clear [TS]

  when they just hire the person like the whole point googled in one apple stealing it's people Apple did my Google thing [TS]

  it's people who think that churn turnover the problem for both companies a raise they would have to raise all their all [TS]

  their payroll to keep the people that they wanted [TS]

  and they just like look at these are for both of us if we just agree that still it has people [TS]

  and Facebook didn't agree to that. [TS]

  Mostly people think because most people want to go to work for Facebook alias maybe they're that point they're like pre [TS]

  I.P.O. [TS]

  Shares or it was there was more upside to Facebook [TS]

  or like Facebook was stealing people because they were offering more stuff [TS]

  and Facebook's like we're not going to Grizz because we're stealing all of your people you and I still in our people [TS]

  and the reason I think Facebook was stealing all their people because they offered the more you have attentional to be [TS]

  richer if you come to work for Facebook like they were younger company maybe you'll get some pre I.P.O. [TS]

  Shares maybe you'll get some shares of that much bigger upside than these more mature companies will pay you more it's [TS]

  more exciting maybe your boarded up or Google or whatever. [TS]

  Facebook was hiring people the old fashioned way and stealing people from everybody [TS]

  and of course Facebook's not going to great with their whole strategy is we're going to steal all your employees by [TS]

  offering them better stuff which like Casey pointed out made Google say well I guess the only until we have a retention [TS]

  against Facebook is to pay our employees more [TS]

  and in a competitive market where people of these skills are in high demand they're supposed to get paid more the [TS]

  companies aren't supposed to collude to make sure that these people can't be mobile in their careers it's this whole [TS]

  whole story of infuriating as [TS]

  and I totally see it as like the the worst it's kind of like the good side of Steve Jobs [TS]

  or you just want to get the job done [TS]

  but the worst side of the jobs is he doesn't care you know what kind of damage he leaves in his wake to get what he [TS]

  wants and neither do any of the other companies as well not to Steve Jobs [TS]

  and all the other people who agreed to this it's it's a terrible attitude just makes me sick reading this whole story [TS]

  John Gruber's been doing some great commentary on this because it really does show like this is the kind of thing that [TS]

  you know Apple is not worse off in every way with Tim Cook. [TS]

  There are there's a few ways that they're better off with Tim Cook [TS]

  and I think this is one of them where I don't allow out of people I really don't think this would have happened with [TS]

  Tim Cook at the helm because he's it's not really his style he's very careful he's like he's very pragmatic he's he's [TS]

  very kind of unemotional about these things he seems he's also very cutthroat So I not sure about this because he he is [TS]

  very demanding and cut throat. Thus far it's a good bet like this from the outside. [TS]

  The image that Tim copra Trey's we all have trouble seeing him doing stuff like this where we don't have trouble seeing [TS]

  Steve Jobs but I think the jury's still out. [TS]

  It's not quite accurate to make this all about money and wages because he's for all the companies involved. [TS]

  Like I don't think Steve Jobs give a crap about what he was paying his engineers [TS]

  and whether this to keep their wages down. I don't think that has anything to do with his end of it all. [TS]

  I think his and if it was all about like vengeance and control and he didn't want to boil tea right. [TS]

  Didn't want to lose his people to like to this evil company Google that was stealing his products from him like that's [TS]

  it was probably it was almost certainly like this emotional [TS]

  and controlling thing from Steve Jobs not at all about salaries [TS]

  and salaries were simply a side effect of it that he probably didn't even think or care about. [TS]

  Well that's a thing he thinks you should stay there because you want to like he's like I shouldn't have to pay you more [TS]

  you should stay here because the working rapport you had to work for the best company in the world [TS]

  and it's insulting to me that you expect me to pay you more money to stay here. [TS]

  But at the same time he also didn't want to lose those people who is like well it's a he's Of Two Minds who thinks like [TS]

  you should be should be staying here because you love it so much [TS]

  but I'm going to make sure that even if you want to leave you couldn't because you wouldn't get anything better [TS]

  anyplace else you might want to stay so being crap [TS]

  and you're like if you really want to be able to stay here just pay them more money. [TS]

  Well no see no that's the problem that's the other flaw in this argument is that engineers especially people who are [TS]

  out on the West Coast you can choose between many very well known tech companies to work for without really uprooting [TS]

  their life too much. [TS]

  It's like these companies get employees they get talent because of what they're doing [TS]

  and what they're you know what's interesting about them. [TS]

  Engineers are famously not as motivated by money as you would think [TS]

  and generally speaking if somebody is thinking about leaving Apple for Google say giving them ten thousand dollars more [TS]

  an apple is not going to really change that decision that for that long or at all. [TS]

  It's really it's not a very effective way to keep people if you have people like looking around because they're bored [TS]

  or unhappy at their job. [TS]

  Money is a terrible way to fix that because it just doesn't work that well in the individual level maybe not [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things it does like that's why Facebook was able to grab these people like Apple is a more [TS]

  exciting place to work than Facebook you're going to work in more interesting things that are more appealing to the [TS]

  average engineer than you with Facebook like that's not even that depends on what kind of engineer your team your site [TS]

  I think like even even if you get to be unlike the glory team where you get to like make the new cool paper app [TS]

  and everything like that there's equal glow. [TS]

  We've positions that Apple [TS]

  and probably if you really care about your thing being used in a long term buy a lot of people you have to put your [TS]

  money on Apple like you design the next version of i O. S. [TS]

  Is probably going to have more longevity in impact than design even the very tip top flagship cool new U.I. [TS]

  Thing like paper or the Facebook Phone [TS]

  or whatever think like you know Apple has the Apple has the projects to offer people. [TS]

  Facebook should never be able to steal people from Apple except on the server side which obviously that's a whole [TS]

  different story. [TS]

  And you get retention there is probably not just money but all I have heard [TS]

  and I know so little about what goes on in Apple but everyone I know who has work there like we see people coming go [TS]

  and they go not because they don't like apple anymore [TS]

  but dislike because you burn out on it like it's tough to work with an apple is a hard job it's hard work. [TS]

  There are crunch times kind of almost like a game developer you know like this this sort of crunch time that everyone [TS]

  except they're going to exist and you just do what you have to do [TS]

  and that can really bring you right after we're on someone you just want to relax [TS]

  and also you want to just do your own thing [TS]

  and within Google I think there used to be more latitude to do your own thing and less of a crunch time. [TS]

  There's a lot of factors that contribute towards you know deciding whether you want to stay [TS]

  or you know leaving come back [TS]

  but this type of agreement doesn't allow you the mobility shuts out all of those because they all agree not to hire [TS]

  anyone else. [TS]

  Like then you don't have to worry about making your employees happy or is in any way giving them more money [TS]

  or giving them more flexibility to do interesting projects on their own [TS]

  or not not subjecting everyone to the massive crunch times. [TS]

  All those tools like it's like oh we don't worry about that anymore because where that where the heck are they going to [TS]

  go we have this agreement with all the companies in the area. Yeah. So you go back a step. [TS]

  This was all happening in two thousand and eight. Well all these e-mails that are coming out and Facebook I.P.O. [TS]

  Was in twenty twelve. So it actually Facebook being able to poach all these people may have been. [TS]

  Financially related [TS]

  and additionally from the pandal Daily article that put the show notes the combined work force of just these eleven [TS]

  companies I'll read in real quick the second totaled over seven hundred seventy five thousand people in two thousand [TS]

  and eight. Those companies are Apple Comcast doubleclick Genet Genentech I.B.M. [TS]

  Illuminati excuse me illuminate Intel Intuit Microsoft ugly V W P P and Google. [TS]

  So that was nearly a million people in two thousand [TS]

  and eight that were all at least in some capacity being shrouded beneath this do not poached agreement thing that's off [TS]

  people. [TS]

  Yeah I mean there's nothing about this that's that's good [TS]

  or encouraging about these companies at all it's likely Johns I just it's kind of a growth story it's just it's not [TS]

  it's just it's just kind of sad [TS]

  and it shows a lot of arrogance on all sides that like this is I mean obviously this is illegal. [TS]

  All this collusion is obviously a problem [TS]

  and I'm I'm very surprised that any of these companies were stupid enough to do it especially by email for God's sake. [TS]

  Yet To that end I was just going to read this. So this is a quote from an e-mail from Eric Schmidt C.E.O. Of Google. [TS]

  Quote I would prefer that omit do it virtually since I don't want to create a paper trail over which we can be sued [TS]

  later. Question mark. Not sure about this two periods. Thanks Eric of course is a two period guy. [TS]

  He means a literal paper trail I guess but I mean do you not realize as the C.E.O. Of Google. [TS]

  It is delicious delicious irony that this president doesn't care about anyone else. [TS]

  I don't [TS]

  and this is the same guy who was like oh privacy doesn't really matter it's not a thing nobody will really have privacy [TS]

  anymore. God so ridiculously arrogant. Yeah I like the whole fact that they are in the thing I was talking. [TS]

  Where the trying to talk about this Steve give the OK Can we hire these people and it looks like those can be OK [TS]

  but in Steve Jobs and the rack one of his tours emails I prefer you know highs people I also want to [TS]

  or we can't we can't do it then like that's all happening over email too like it's almost as if not the ignorance of [TS]

  the was a defense but if you read this you know do you guys not know that what you're doing is both illegal [TS]

  and immoral like wouldn't you. [TS]

  Back Like if you going to rob a bank don't email your fellow bank robbers back [TS]

  and forth about it for the months leading up to it like that then seem like a good idea like so we're going to a bank [TS]

  right OK I'll send you an email as a new tech start like you know like I said it's just they're so casual about it [TS]

  and they like they communicate to each other you mail so casually about is like it's almost like they must not know [TS]

  it's illegal because if you did know. No email. [TS]

  It's just so incredibly incriminating isn't like they were secretly taped there anything they're e-mailing each other [TS]

  about it and they haven't they didn't delete the emails like it's just mind boggling and it really is ridiculous. [TS]

  The more of the story is don't work for any of these. [TS]

  As you point out this was in two thousand and eight [TS]

  and I imagine that even this collusion was in effect once the big falling out between Apple [TS]

  and Google like you know post i Phone like those agreements were off like last one Steve Jobs is saying to everybody [TS]

  you know we're going to bury Google and they betrayed us they backstab those or whatever I imagine he also said [TS]

  and forget it we're approaching other people like you know delay your T. [TS]

  Broke the law and if there's a paper trail in electronic form you can get screwed for it anyway. [TS]

  It's kind of a shame that like Tim Cook is left holding the bag in this type of deal like whether he knew anything knew [TS]

  about it was part of it you know then maybe it's fitting but if he didn't know about it and or wasn't a part of it [TS]

  or disapproved of it now he's the guy holding the bag on this [TS]

  and so whatever I mean I'm assuming will be a risk because it's always a risk lap of these big rich companies [TS]

  but it's a shame. [TS]

  Yeah I don't know I'm guessing it says I think I read somewhere that apparently a lot of the companies involved is [TS]

  already settled. I'm really surprised that Apple didn't like the it seems like that with a pragmatic approach here. [TS]

  Just settle this just take whatever it costs settle it quickly and quietly as well as weak as you can at least [TS]

  and just get it get it past you because you had this is obviously like is obviously a thing of the past for most of [TS]

  these companies because of the relationships that have changed [TS]

  and especially as I really can't see Tim Cook wanting to be a part of this because he's he's too smart for that I think [TS]

  the whole thing just grows the revenue Apple generated while we were discussing this would be enough to pay for the [TS]

  settlement. So they're all set. Anything else. And we good. When I have a short one this week. [TS]

  All right well thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week to check out Pixelmator and Warby Parker [TS]

  and we will see you next week or so and you are sitting on the learn from my sister that skill list [TS]

  and the team are actually what we should talk about is to be able to see theories you have that that should be pretty [TS]

  quick for now. OK so I have an insane. [TS]

  Theory so if you go to the Moscone schedule let me find a link and stall for a moment while I'm doing that. [TS]

  There's a meeting in June that's the American Association I believe. [TS]

  And that goes on from the Friday that everyone expects it talking seventh or tenth [TS]

  or fourteenth through thirteen through seventeen. I first the previous week June second or sixth. [TS]

  OK that that corroborates my theory is your thing that has the Friday included. [TS]

  Does that involve Moscone West because there's three Mosconi Now that's the thing. [TS]

  So here you've hit the nail on the head so I see that I actually saw a few weeks ago that the American died of diabetes. [TS]

  I'm sorry. [TS]

  The American Diabetes Association seventy fourth lines of accessions that is in Moscone north south [TS]

  and west from the thirteenth of June which is that Friday through the seventeenth which is the following Tuesday. [TS]

  So there you go at the previous week. So. Well but no it's not quite so simple because what I know the D.C. [TS]

  Ends on Fridays and it ends around midday [TS]

  and so let's assume for the sake of conversation for just a moment that maybe they could flip it [TS]

  or perhaps maybe the rest of the time the eighty eight needs west [TS]

  but they made some agreement with Mosconi where they don't need it Friday. [TS]

  So I go digging around to look at what is the American Diabetes Association. [TS]

  Seventy fourth scientific sessions and I'm trying to figure out OK is there [TS]

  or is there not anything going on in Moscone West [TS]

  and I'm looking at looking at all sorts of things I'm looking at vendor maps [TS]

  and I don't think that was West I'm looking at schedules [TS]

  and they say well on Saturday there's absolutely something in Moscone west [TS]

  but there's no real talk about Friday in Moscone west until I find what I just put in the chat special opportunities. [TS]

  World Cup viewing room since Scientific Sessions will once again fall over fee for World Cup matches will set aside. [TS]

  Miriam us in Moscone West so that attendees can catch up on the latest action without leaving a conference center [TS]

  and I'd seen a convention center. [TS]

  So with that in mind one's World Cup start and I didn't verify this myself [TS]

  but I was talking with underscore earlier earlier today and he said it starts on like the twelfth [TS]

  or something like that or that [TS]

  or the eleventh I forget exactly what day it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things with the point as it [TS]

  starts before the thirteenth. [TS]

  So if you put all of this together that says to me that Moscone West is going to be clogged up on Thursday on Friday [TS]

  the thirteenth of June so that eliminates the week of nine through thirteen the following week it is still covered by [TS]

  the same eighty eight meetings so we've got nine through twenty all booked up which leaves twenty three thru twenty [TS]

  seven which is already been booked for Google I O. [TS]

  Which means by process of elimination it's the second through the six or eight in August. [TS]

  If it's in June and if it's still it must go on and I think that's I mean that's a problem. [TS]

  I think being at my schooling is a pretty safe bet. [TS]

  Just because there's you know where else they gonna do it there's talk of this before so that it's almost certainly [TS]

  still at Moscone. It doesn't necessarily have to be in June. [TS]

  It's just very likely it will be because that's how they've done it and it works out in a number of ways. [TS]

  I suspect it'll just be the first week June second through sex [TS]

  but it doesn't really matter where the dates are because then we all assume they're going to preannounce the dates in [TS]

  the tickets and everything but he's not going to it's not going to be a surprise anymore. [TS]

  It's like it's the only question now is like is there going to be like last year is there going to be a lottery [TS]

  or whatever but I really doubt they would ever go back to the thing where it's like oh here it is [TS]

  and go by like it's always going to be pre-announced So we just sit around and wait for them to preannounce [TS]

  and say tickets will be on sale at X. Date and hears them are going to use and then we just all deal with it. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but it's nice to try to figure out what what the schedule is for example you know I was thinking of flying Arun out to [TS]

  meet me late in the week and then we would spend some the following week. [TS]

  Go out there together but yeah I looked at both the plane tickets and hotel fare a little while ago [TS]

  and the prices look crazy [TS]

  and bad so well the prices are terrible the one hundred thirteenth they're almost livable the second to the six AS Per [TS]

  underscore only or today. [TS]

  Yeah I saw the park fifty five hotel is almost exactly the same price now as it was last year. [TS]

  Downs as I look at the last of us I was looking it was like a hundred bucks more per night. [TS]

  It was like it was like in the high hundreds like one hundred ninety two hundred ish like in that all that's really [TS]

  good. [TS]

  Now that's yeah we will see effort for the second to say it was substantially I was talking underscore over to him [TS]

  and he and he suggested to let you know maybe we'll do a lottery this year [TS]

  and I think honestly you know the more I think about the more I think that's really the only good option at this point [TS]

  like anything that involves everyone rushing at this particular time. [TS]

  That's going to always be problematic you know if you want think if it was like are going to open at this time. [TS]

  First come first serve. [TS]

  Go [TS]

  and it sells out in ten minutes so everyone has ten minutes like you can do YOU CAN A lot of people can get in ten minutes [TS]

  but if it sells out in like forty five seconds again like it did last year before being short of breaking [TS]

  and failing that's that's tough. [TS]

  That way you know it's what you want is for all the people who really really want to get in to be able to get tickets. [TS]

  But there's not enough tickets for that anymore. [TS]

  Like there's there's too many people who qualify for that who people who really want to go. [TS]

  There's just too many of those. And any system you make is only going to have a random subset of them effectively. [TS]

  So you might as well do it in a way that feels fair [TS]

  and make it a lottery it's not truly random anyway I like the idea of people being really rewarded for their enthusiasm [TS]

  for buying tickets available could just make a web application doesn't die. [TS]

  Then you could in theory give people tickets on a first come first serve basis [TS]

  and then like the people who are sitting there hovering over the button as a second stick. [TS]

  On there you know synchronized clock they will be rewarded for their crazy enthusiasm for getting tickets [TS]

  and they will be more likely to get tickets [TS]

  and the people who stroll in thirty seconds later I know I know it's a small window and it's crazy [TS]

  but if you could eliminate the error a lottery is truly random like the people who just like I guess I'll put my hat in [TS]

  the ring and they do that like three days after they were announced. [TS]

  They have an equal chance with you who is like their you know the second [TS]

  and I don't think I like seeing some weight given to people who are more enthusiastic about going [TS]

  and there's no way to express that enthusiasm if there's a four day window for you to put your hat in the ring for a [TS]

  lottery for a ticket. I completely agree. [TS]

  So I would prefer to think it is merely make a web application to work correctly [TS]

  and have it so out in ten seconds is fine with me ten seconds is more than enough for him to like all the people who [TS]

  are there you know trying to get him that ten second window. [TS]

  Maybe it's all that in five seconds and three seconds like if they had to get an application that wouldn't break. [TS]

  You could get you could reserve people spot and then a time [TS]

  and so your spot of reserve you have five minutes a checkout and then the application won't fail [TS]

  and you've got you know like there we have somebody has technology perhaps not Apple. Yes the problem here. [TS]

  You're asking Apple for like a really complicated web app to be super reliable and fair and you have it right. [TS]

  Right the whole thing and like it doesn't seem like how many people could there possibly be. [TS]

  Let's say there's a million people who want to go to a really see I think that's way too big. [TS]

  I feel like with with Apple's budget it is possible to set up a bunch of servers that serve like text only no images [TS]

  just like a button and like click this button to reserve your ticket [TS]

  when it's like I feel like I could write this thing for a million people or be ugly but it would work. [TS]

  Give me give me Apple's budget and a couple months to do this [TS]

  and I can make a fair system for reserving your spot for to be every see that me like gives you a token [TS]

  and it sends you off to the real checkout process during which we checked in you know like it's not rocket science [TS]

  doesn't have to be a big fancy. [TS]

  You know the store checkout process or whatever that's not used to this kind of onslaught [TS]

  but well I mean I think I think the reason why it broke so badly last year is that Apple really didn't seem to do it to [TS]

  do a lot of custom work for it. [TS]

  They've basically is trying to wedge it into their regular checkout process [TS]

  and it just was not designed will work whatever system whatever backend stuff was involved with those tickets in [TS]

  particular just they didn't put enough effort into it you know. [TS]

  In short they half assed it right [TS]

  and Apple half ass in the web service especially one meant for developers is nothing new at all [TS]

  and there's no signs ever from Apple. [TS]

  There's no sign that their priorities have changed in such a way that making a really amazing web service for [TS]

  developers a sort of the really important thing. [TS]

  So I don't see that happening at all [TS]

  and that's why I think if you assume that it's going to be no better than last year if there's a big rush point like if [TS]

  they say Our show up at this time first come first serve. [TS]

  Just like last year I don't have any reason to believe that reasonably speaking it will be any better than last year [TS]

  and last year was pretty bad. [TS]

  Well last year was terrible in a while [TS]

  and I say that because I'm still grumbling about the fact that I had major ticket acquisition issues [TS]

  but it was really rough. [TS]

  But that being said how come we don't have the same problems with the last one or two i Phone [TS]

  and i Pad pre-orders like if I recall correctly the five S. Did not have an online pre-order is that right. [TS]

  Way more capacity though like the I don't think you have the the emphasizes rush because people know that there's not [TS]

  five thousand i Pads available. [TS]

  There's five thousand i Pads value [TS]

  and people knew there were five thousand i Pads available who would be the same disaster [TS]

  but you know the millions of i Pad felt sure [TS]

  and it spread out over you know like even people like waiting up till three am or whatever and getting through [TS]

  or maybe your shipment date moves out if you're in the first five minutes or two [TS]

  but it's not like this is so much more capacity to such a limited number of tickets for this. [TS]

  Right but what I'm saying is let's say there's fifty thousand people that really want to go in. [TS]

  Obviously I made that up at a thin air. [TS]

  Don't you think there'd be a lot more than fifty thousand people trying to pre-order a new i Phone [TS]

  or i Pad on the moment at three am that it's available. Well but they have to make that work really well. [TS]

  They have I mean John I think you're right that yes the demand probably is a little more spread out in that it isn't as [TS]

  urgent that everyone who wants one get there at second zero. [TS]

  But I also think that Apple puts a lot more resources into that and into testing [TS]

  and deploying that because it's way more important to them think about how much of their revenue is directly from that [TS]

  process on those couple days or even that night. But there's a lot of money that's a huge very important thing. [TS]

  If it fails also it's a major P.R. [TS]

  Blunder that they will be raked over the coals for all the tech sites [TS]

  and everything saying how they're doing because they can't keep a store up for their most important product Meanwhile [TS]

  if developers get you know a couple of their pages and everyone everyone's carts timeout [TS]

  and there's always errors buying data about the conference. The Wall Street Journal doesn't give a crap about that. [TS]

  No [TS]

  but I guess what I'm saying is if they clearly have conquered this for i Devices Couldn't you use some of the same either [TS]

  servers or tech or something for W W D C [TS]

  and also consider that from everything we can tell from the outside it seems like it was a pretty labor intensive [TS]

  aftermath last year when everyone got half cooked on their orders and then people from Apple had to either email [TS]

  or call everyone in fact I thought they called a lot of people saying hey we see you got halfway through this order do [TS]

  you want to finish it and that is not something I would assume they expected to need to do [TS]

  and if that's a ton of people you know it's a few thousand I mean a few thousand if it's only two interns doing all the [TS]

  calls for the sake of conversation. That takes some time. [TS]

  And I remember hearing about these calls happening I would say at least a couple weeks if not a month after the tickets [TS]

  went on sale. [TS]

  Well all of this argues in favor of Apple doing the lottery because if you think about it from Apple's perspective a [TS]

  lottery is the best for them it makes them not be embarrassed about having a crappy thing that falls down [TS]

  and avoids all those work for years ascribe K.C. [TS]

  and The third advantage that it gives Apple is that it lets them cherry pick like they can you know. [TS]

  Oh yeah it's a random quote unquote but behind the scenes Apple has the ability to go in that one and that one [TS]

  and that one and now an OK And then you do the rest of them random and they do that anyway. [TS]

  Oh they were they were doing that with the people who had problems like a lottery is by far the best from Apple's [TS]

  perspective because it solves all the Apple's problem to does not solve all of the customer's problems [TS]

  and I don't think it's more fair than the system I described [TS]

  but if you just go about like what's best for Apple a lottery is it so if you if you want to take the easy bet it's [TS]

  like Will Apple do the thing that's best for Apple [TS]

  or will they care about how developers feel so it's you know we'll say well with Cabot that the thing is best for Apple [TS]

  require them to do a little bit more work on the server side which makes a lot less likely. [TS]

  Well the thing the thing the bus route doesn't require them to do any more server is really easy to get a little sign [TS]

  up form and is connect the name to collect the names and send out the emails [TS]

  and you know say oh congratulations you've been selected [TS]

  and check out at your leisure with a special token code that you know like it's so much easier for them. [TS]

  Oh didn't they do that the last iphone pre-order I did which I did the five S. In line but I believe for the four S. [TS]

  or Maybe it was the it doesn't matter for something I got a kind of sort of token it basically said OK we see that you [TS]

  want an i Phone and we know that we can't handle it right now [TS]

  but we have reserved one for you we will email you a link and let you finish the process later [TS]

  when we think we're good and ready. [TS]

  Do you remember that Marco I don't although underscore said earlier that he thinks that how tech talk. [TS]

  Were were done that tech talks were done by a lottery where you just like you enter your email [TS]

  and then it is there I will let you know if you can come back out to have a system for us. [TS]

  Even if the system is simply will take provisional orders [TS]

  and will just like cancel the ones that we don't pick somebody within the bounds of like it is there's no time you know [TS]

  it's like for ever and get your tickets in over the course of the next week no rush. [TS]

  Doesn't matter when you do it like they have no problem supporting this and using whatever system they decide to use [TS]

  and it definitely makes their life easier [TS]

  and I think the extra control of them being able to cherry pick like the people who they want [TS]

  and who they don't want they're just like they must be like yeah that's great we're going to do that [TS]

  and so I fear that's what will happen this year [TS]

  but I mean like like Marcos the realistic alternative is a repeat of last year because none of us believe that they can [TS]

  make a server [TS]

  or have the guts to make like a simple text only no javascript really tiny one button click this thing to reserve your [TS]

  ticket you know like they would never do that because it wouldn't be the Apple way it would look all pretty [TS]

  and like have check shiny about Clinton even the problem. [TS]

  I mean that the way you can solve it with C.D.'s I mean that's that's not a problem can you apparently Apple can't [TS]

  figure that out I have to have the pages during my check out last year had no C.S.S. [TS]

  and I just blindly plowed all I'm going to help. That's exactly right. [TS]

  I just I can't you know as a developer of systems that handle these kind of traffic in the past I can't imagine like [TS]

  the kind of like weird ancient limited infrastructure they must put in this task last year that caused this problem. [TS]

  Unless there were like millions of people hitting at once. [TS]

  But there weren't because I mean the total demand has to be under a million half the total demand. [TS]

  You know they have five thousand tickets they saw very quickly how many people do you think are actually trying to get [TS]

  those tickets. Ten thousand twenty thousand fifty thousand maybe at most like how many could there really be. [TS]

  How long ago was the first sellout Wasn't that like twenty and twenty eleventh's. [TS]

  Thing like that I think it was earlier I think was like No nine but it was it was like a month [TS]

  and a half after the ticket months right. [TS]

  So you look at you know the for I think it's twenty twelve was the first one that happened really fast [TS]

  and that was like ten minutes something like that yeah. [TS]

  And so I can't imagine we went from twenty nine let's call it where it took a month to sell out to twenty ten where it [TS]

  was quick. Can I refuse to call it twenty nine. Yeah. Well while this is accidental you know that's the way this. [TS]

  Anyway the point is in two thousand nine hundred twenty twelve it was really uncomfortable and quick [TS]

  and then twenty thirteen it was just unbearably quick I can't imagine that means there's more than fifty thousand [TS]

  people and even now I feel like it's pretty aggressive that are there looking for tickets. What do you think this year. [TS]

  Knowing what happened last year knowing what people did last year will you be going if you don't get a ticket. [TS]

  I probably won't because like the videos are are so much you know the real time video that we didn't know were coming [TS]

  last year that Apple surprised us with assuming they're going to do them again. [TS]

  That's probably enough for me to like I don't and I'm not sure if I need to be there for a minute. [TS]

  I guess it depends on what gets announced [TS]

  and like if there are things that I would want to talk to people you know sort of behind the scenes about our in person [TS]

  or whatever that that that experience. [TS]

  I can't get with the videos but depending on what the nouns that experience may be less important. [TS]

  Yeah I mean it's not always about the sessions like like if I don't get a ticket I think what I'll be most disappointed [TS]

  about missing whether I'm there [TS]

  or not is the socialization that happens like in the common areas in Moscone during the day between the sessions I see [TS]

  so many people there I talk to so many people. I've made deals there like that. [TS]

  That's a very important thing to me is like that community engagement like had being around people of you know of our [TS]

  industry and media. New people like being in the building to be there for all this. [TS]

  If you just go and go for the social elements and you know drinking at the bar his friends afterwards [TS]

  and stuff you get some of that [TS]

  but it's not nearly as much rain in that's the thing is that I feel like I want to go for at least maybe two thirds of [TS]

  the week even if I did never take it but oh my goodness. [TS]

  Telling them work I like you know if I told work hey all funded from a financial perspective [TS]

  but can I I'm kind of not work for a week and not have thinking isn't that going to be a tough sell. [TS]

  I don't know if I mean for me like I'm trying to just justify a large expense of the trip [TS]

  and everything as part of work on you know a ten radio so that's like it's like a business trip I have to take off from [TS]

  work from my real job that just you know it's vacation from that. [TS]

  But like am I going to spend a week of vacation [TS]

  and also spend all this money to do this thing that has to be in service of some things I need to like I can just be [TS]

  like oh I just want to hang out my friends like yeah if I was it if money was no object [TS]

  and I didn't have any other responsibilities just go there to have a fun week. [TS]

  Right but even if even if I didn't have to take it which some people did last year [TS]

  but I don't I don't think I have that luxury around and I'm fifty fifty. [TS]

  Knowing me I'll cave and go but that's a tough sell but it sounds like Mark or you'd almost certainly do it. [TS]

  I would definitely go but I I would really be I would probably end up being really bored during most of the days. [TS]

  So supposing it is last year they release the videos what was it like like the evening early the next morning there [TS]

  were the videos in the previous day it was it was like it wasn't real time was it was pretty soon afterwards I think [TS]

  you're right I think it was within twelve hours. Yes I'm like that. [TS]

  So you could like you know you could on any given day you can watch at the previous day's videos. [TS]

  So yeah maybe I could do that but where am I going to do that. In what context. [TS]

  My going to sit around in another teller Malone watching videos all day like that's going to suck. [TS]

  On crummy wife I write that well you go meet people for lunch and may be able for dinner but you know [TS]

  but yeah there is a time to be sitting in a hotel room or in some coffee shop [TS]

  or something trying to stream that is right [TS]

  and that sounds that sounds like a pretty miserable week honestly so you know if that's the alternative that's pretty [TS]

  bad if people if there's a lot of people who are in this situation who are all going in the you know then maybe you can [TS]

  try to organize something a little more reasonable than that for the day times [TS]

  and you know for the night doesn't matter the Moscone after after four P.M. Anyway but what do you do from nine A.M. [TS]

  To four P.M. [TS]

  That's that's a big question and and if you want to and if you don't watch the videos [TS]

  when do you watch the videos like that like if you're one of the great things about being there is that your job during [TS]

  that week is to go to the sessions so you will go to the sessions maybe not all of them about every slot [TS]

  but you'll go to the sessions you have nothing else to do that we do that. [TS]

  Whereas if you wait until after that week if you're say Oh well I want to sessions [TS]

  when I get home we know a lot what sessions later in the year. [TS]

  You'll just probably never do it because there's never a time where it's your job to watch that session right there was [TS]

  old D.C. Last year which from everything I've heard was actually very very good. [TS]

  So you could presumably go to that in spend your time there during the day [TS]

  but I agree in the other thing to consider is that despite San Francisco being this hotbed of Internet everything the [TS]

  hotel wife in any hotel lobby ever stayed in is just crummy as every other hotel anywhere in the country. [TS]

  Oh it's miserable. [TS]

  Right so what do you do to get the videos even if you could get them I mean you'd have to go to a market you would you [TS]

  go to Starbucks to get the videos also I would probably just ask like MacWorld [TS]

  or an office that's nearby that we're friends with I would preach ask them if I go there often use their [TS]

  or their internet connection at least and also that you know [TS]

  and that might be the answer right the answer might be you know small groups of people. [TS]

  All who know someone in San Francisco get together in various people's offices or apartments and have little parties [TS]

  or gatherings or you know wife I download sessions there I mean it's. [TS]

  But the problem is like that's not really that's not really like a big community event. [TS]

  It breaks up into smaller communities [TS]

  and it also makes it much harder for people who don't know anyone yet if you know who are new to the community who [TS]

  don't know anyone who was here we don't know anyone who is big companies it makes it much harder of a sell for them to [TS]

  do it to be any part of us really and that's that's a shame. [TS]

  And so you know it's you know it's one thing like you know we can go out there and. [TS]

  Yeah Jason cell already said we can use their office so we know we know we went out there we have somewhere to go. [TS]

  But that's not going to apply to everyone and that's right. [TS]

  It just it just it just it's unfortunate situation that it has to be limited like this [TS]

  but you know unfortunately it does like there are there are no bigger venues there are no you know there's even if they [TS]

  can find a bigger venue like you really want to convert twenty thousand people [TS]

  and you know we've been to the South by Southwest is is giant and it's terrible. [TS]

  No it isn't spread out over all of Austin I've never been [TS]

  but my understanding was it's like a good zillion different locations all around Austin is that correct. [TS]

  Yeah pretty much spreading out to like in that now you have to take buses across the river to go to some weird hotel [TS]

  for session one of the like. [TS]

  It's so it's so weird I mean like that's the problem is that this it's like forms like discussion forums have certain [TS]

  sizes above which they just do not scale very well [TS]

  and once a community gets beyond that size there's kind of no turning back there's no rescuing it. [TS]

  It just gets out of control [TS]

  and you know its conferences are a similar thing is there are certain natural sizes after which it's just really really [TS]

  hard to make it good and to make it work. And and I think they definitely have reached that point with D.C. [TS]

  With you know we see. [TS]

  How it's very hard to get into a lot of the sessions because there's lines out the door you can't even get into so many [TS]

  of the like it's so it's already bursting at the seems like they can't really make it bigger [TS]

  and have it be the same kind of thing. [TS]

  And there's lots of you know they can try to split it up [TS]

  and various ways with that kind of ruins other aspects of it as well including some of that some of the community [TS]

  aspect. It's one of those things that there's just no good option here you have to pick between bad options. [TS]

  And on that partial. [TS]

  Speaking of picking between bad options what about those three cars it's got there so bad there is so bad. [TS]