00:00:00 ◼ ► So your tweet about us having thin topics like oh there's a lot of stuff we didn't get that for wearables [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/0">TS</a>]
00:00:04 ◼ ► but after that you read them are topics I didn't want to know I guess it was a popular item [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4">TS</a>]
00:00:10 ◼ ► but just one last week we were talking about how if you have some sort of service that deals with your photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/10">TS</a>]
00:00:17 ◼ ► and lets you share them no matter what cool features you have you've got at least also have a way to send a link to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/17">TS</a>]
00:00:23 ◼ ► somebody they can view and any web browser and we also talked about photo stream an I O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/23">TS</a>]
00:00:28 ◼ ► Us integration and stuff like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/28">TS</a>]
00:00:31 ◼ ► and say it directly the implication was that sort of stream did not have a public euro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/31">TS</a>]
00:00:35 ◼ ► but for a stream does that public your all you can make a little yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/35">TS</a>]
00:00:39 ◼ ► or a website that you can share with somebody that lets them see the pictures in your photo stream. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/39">TS</a>]
00:00:45 ◼ ► I use mostly with my family and my family has I.O.'s devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/45">TS</a>]
00:00:47 ◼ ► and the great thing about that is it notifies you on your phone or on your i Pad And [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/47">TS</a>]
00:00:52 ◼ ► when you get the notification you need to swipe and see the pictures immediately. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/52">TS</a>]
00:00:55 ◼ ► It's of much superior interface for viewing pictures but you've always got to have that web interface underneath all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/55">TS</a>]
00:01:01 ◼ ► and this came up in the kind of Carousel which I think he said they didn't have a way if you could just get an easy web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/61">TS</a>]
00:01:06 ◼ ► link that was my experience that's correct. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/66">TS</a>]
00:01:09 ◼ ► So I emailed what was to Carousel a completely random e-mail address that wasn't associated with a Dropbox account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/69">TS</a>]
00:01:18 ◼ ► email address in fact it was my work email and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/78">TS</a>]
00:01:20 ◼ ► when I received the e-mail from personal mean I'm doing that in air quotes to work me the work e-mail basically said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/80">TS</a>]
00:01:27 ◼ ► hey you need to install carousel if you want to do anything useful and I think it did have like six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/87">TS</a>]
00:01:33 ◼ ► Little little thumbnails of the pictures and I'd actually selected so was like stock photography or anything like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/93">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► But with that said it didn't it didn't do anything and there was no Web based link it basically said go to the app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/99">TS</a>]
00:01:45 ◼ ► or get the hell out of here that we have anymore follow up in any case if you feel like you need to follow up at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/105">TS</a>]
00:01:52 ◼ ► I mean topics from last week you know you did Casey do you want to tell us all what you did post. No I don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/112">TS</a>]
00:02:02 ◼ ► I'm I'm a little not bitter little frustrated with the feedback from last week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/122">TS</a>]
00:02:09 ◼ ► and I was debating talking about it in since you've prompted me I'll go ahead and do so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/129">TS</a>]
00:02:15 ◼ ► and just make my world even worse for myself. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/135">TS</a>]
00:02:18 ◼ ► And the thing that frustrated me about the feedback we received is that there were a few instances [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/138">TS</a>]
00:02:24 ◼ ► and Mark at words is from the Django Django I was Prancer on I'm so sorry Mark. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/144">TS</a>]
00:02:30 ◼ ► But anyway he wrote a relatively long missive that he put up as a just a guess whatever on my thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/150">TS</a>]
00:02:37 ◼ ► and I just thank you and doubted myself anyways. Mata whack. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/157">TS</a>]
00:02:42 ◼ ► and then he explained as someone who used to do this sort of thing for a living why vinyl is basically the most evil [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/162">TS</a>]
00:02:50 ◼ ► thing in the world and well I don't entirely agree with what he said. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/170">TS</a>]
00:02:56 ◼ ► I can't really factually debate it and so things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/176">TS</a>]
00:03:01 ◼ ► when Will will put a link in the show notes that was actually welcome and useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/181">TS</a>]
00:03:06 ◼ ► but I got a lot of feedback we got a lot of feedback [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/186">TS</a>]
00:03:08 ◼ ► and I got a lot of feedback which basically amounted to I read something on the internet once. It must be true. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/188">TS</a>]
00:03:18 ◼ ► and that kind of bothers me a little bit because it was oftentimes not really based in fact Or sometimes it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/198">TS</a>]
00:03:27 ◼ ► but never ever ever based on experience and I'm not going to try to rehash the argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/207">TS</a>]
00:03:32 ◼ ► but suffice to say I put a lot more stock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/212">TS</a>]
00:03:34 ◼ ► when I receive feedback from someone who has had the experience of listening to vinyl on a really nice set up over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/214">TS</a>]
00:03:42 ◼ ► someone who has just read some things or seen some stuff on the Internet and swears that that's true. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/222">TS</a>]
00:03:48 ◼ ► Now yes there's a lot of science behind it. Yes I understand that. Yes I'm probably crazy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/228">TS</a>]
00:03:53 ◼ ► All of that is fine I agree I understand it it was probably silly of me to say that the fidelity of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/233">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► I know it was better than the fidelity of C.D.'s but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/240">TS</a>]
00:04:03 ◼ ► when it comes down to it something I said on Twitter which actually is fairly proud of myself I'm patting myself on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/243">TS</a>]
00:04:09 ◼ ► back is that it's very kind of cliché but life is what happens between one and zero in my eyes and whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/249">TS</a>]
00:04:16 ◼ ► or not the accuracy of the reproduction on vinyl or CD is better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/256">TS</a>]
00:04:24 ◼ ► and to some degree the what do you call it the T something I already forgot ceremony [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/264">TS</a>]
00:04:29 ◼ ► and I think the ceremony you know I'm I know what you mean so I prefer the tea ceremony of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/269">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► and the only thing I will say to defend myself other than come at me once you've had personal experience you damn nerds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/275">TS</a>]
00:04:43 ◼ ► you know me other thing I'll say is Why is it John that you choose to drive a manual transmission in two thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/283">TS</a>]
00:04:51 ◼ ► and fourteen that's not even close to a fair comparison. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/291">TS</a>]
00:04:55 ◼ ► Oh no I was going to let you slide but you kind of you come back at me with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/295">TS</a>]
00:04:59 ◼ ► and you just like that what I was going to let slide is the time that thing with life is what happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/299">TS</a>]
00:05:03 ◼ ► when you want to zero that like that vaguely allude to terrible illogical reasoning behind crazy you know like I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/303">TS</a>]
00:05:12 ◼ ► you know I thought we did getting it at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/312">TS</a>]
00:05:13 ◼ ► Like I understand but the fact that you chose to use one and zero is like another nudge it like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/313">TS</a>]
00:05:18 ◼ ► C'mon guys we all know that digital stuff is not a feeling and you know I mean like this is an I did I do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/318">TS</a>]
00:05:26 ◼ ► but then you came like I found the feedback frustrating as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/326">TS</a>]
00:05:29 ◼ ► and you would think I wouldn't want to be that pressure because I think that most of the feedback agreed with Marco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/329">TS</a>]
00:05:32 ◼ ► and I but I found the bag very frustrating because I mean this is a common phenomenon of the back for the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/332">TS</a>]
00:05:38 ◼ ► Very often we will get feedback and I don't want the topic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/338">TS</a>]
00:05:42 ◼ ► and past shows everything where someone will be I mean it's not bad feedback is good for the shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/342">TS</a>]
00:05:46 ◼ ► and some you know some of the big fan of the show right in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/346">TS</a>]
00:05:49 ◼ ► and this is in some ways this is the best kind of feedback that whether we like listening to your show maybe think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/349">TS</a>]
00:05:55 ◼ ► about this and here is what I think about it and they'll present a bunch of ideas about the topic. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/355">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► But what I find frustrating is a lot of the time the ideas they present are things that we talked about on the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/360">TS</a>]
00:06:07 ◼ ► and you don't want to write back and say you know we talked about that this exact thing going on the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/367">TS</a>]
00:06:13 ◼ ► but then it sounds like you're not valuing their feedback [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/373">TS</a>]
00:06:15 ◼ ► and it's good that they're enthusiastic about a sometimes it's frustrating to see like I fail I obviously failed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/375">TS</a>]
00:06:19 ◼ ► communicate this idea because it keeps coming back to me as if it's information that we're missing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/379">TS</a>]
00:06:24 ◼ ► or if it's new information or new insights [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/384">TS</a>]
00:06:26 ◼ ► and like we talked about for fifteen minutes we said almost these exact words [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/386">TS</a>]
00:06:30 ◼ ► and it's like sometimes it's people sometimes people sending feedback in real time where they listen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/390">TS</a>]
00:06:35 ◼ ► and then I guess they cause it or whatever and then they write their you know three page missive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/395">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► and then they start playing again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/400">TS</a>]
00:06:41 ◼ ► You know as I haven't gotten into the pod gets I realize we addressed the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/401">TS</a>]
00:06:44 ◼ ► and I happen to tweet you know obviously it's fine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/404">TS</a>]
00:06:48 ◼ ► but a lot of the feedback was like presenting points back to any of us me Marco you that I thought of because where we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/408">TS</a>]
00:06:56 ◼ ► covered on the show like we talked about these exact things and it's like maybe we're not communicating effectively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/416">TS</a>]
00:07:02 ◼ ► or are just like we're talking past our audience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/422">TS</a>]
00:07:06 ◼ ► or something in the same way I saw a lot of arguments directed both Casey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/426">TS</a>]
00:07:10 ◼ ► and US that I thought we talked about on the show and address all different sides of coming back at us you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/430">TS</a>]
00:07:16 ◼ ► and the arguments that I thought I had you know refuted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/436">TS</a>]
00:07:21 ◼ ► and settled down arguments the case he never made arguments that we never made decisions that we never staked out to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/441">TS</a>]
00:07:26 ◼ ► say you know the whole nine yards like this is obviously a very fraught issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/446">TS</a>]
00:07:30 ◼ ► and I think the problem you're still having with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/450">TS</a>]
00:07:32 ◼ ► and I think you know continue to have with that is that you just got out like you have to just make it clear what it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/452">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► like you know like in a world in an underwear like moving the goalposts the enemy clear what everybody's talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/459">TS</a>]
00:07:44 ◼ ► to this point I think everybody on this part of us all agrees it's just that you keep wanting to put the goal posts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/464">TS</a>]
00:07:49 ◼ ► over there and that's what we're talking about I mean I'm going to put the goal posts over here in Britain this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/469">TS</a>]
00:07:54 ◼ ► and and and and original and I'm trying to give them kind of where the original thing was which was the whole idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/474">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► An R.L. Talk where Faith said I'm not going to buy a device that purports to have high quality music and you're right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/480">TS</a>]
00:08:05 ◼ ► Fidelity is a better word is point out to us by Dr Dre [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/485">TS</a>]
00:08:08 ◼ ► and we should've been using that word which could be part of the communication problem here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/488">TS</a>]
00:08:11 ◼ ► But anyway I'm not going to buy a device like the PO now because if I want high quality meaning high fidelity music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/491">TS</a>]
00:08:18 ◼ ► and that I think is a clear you know a clear implication that like we're talking about the pano in the whole big deal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/498">TS</a>]
00:08:25 ◼ ► with that is like there is you know there's more information in the music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/505">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► and it's like it was I want more information in the music of I want higher fidelity if I want to more accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/508">TS</a>]
00:08:33 ◼ ► reproduction of sound I will go to vinyl and you seem to fall down the trail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/513">TS</a>]
00:08:38 ◼ ► and my objection America's objection is that like you know vinyl is not good at reproducing sound not as good as CD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/518">TS</a>]
00:08:44 ◼ ► and although some I think are great for us to talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/524">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► and it's good to define the boundaries of what we believe in everything that I like you should be happy with that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/526">TS</a>]
00:08:51 ◼ ► It's not as if we like it it's not as if you should you shouldn't cling to that idea like that fidelity thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/531">TS</a>]
00:08:58 ◼ ► and that's not what you're talking about then. Fine then you agree with us there and we agree with you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/538">TS</a>]
00:09:02 ◼ ► However the tea ceremony and everybody's happy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/542">TS</a>]
00:09:04 ◼ ► and that one of things that he keeps getting thrown back in is like I like to read like to reframe the arguments in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/544">TS</a>]
00:09:12 ◼ ► popular one is like I said look if I'm really interested in High Fidelity images I'll go to Instagram. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/552">TS</a>]
00:09:21 ◼ ► I get that the effect of the argument they're making like you know I don't need a full frame camera with with a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/561">TS</a>]
00:09:27 ◼ ► great sensor and lots of megapixels. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/567">TS</a>]
00:09:29 ◼ ► If I'm interested in photographing for the ality I will look at a camera phone picture of a nice night joints a gram. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/569">TS</a>]
00:09:36 ◼ ► I guess the argument that many people are making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/576">TS</a>]
00:09:38 ◼ ► and unknowingly that they're making that they're completely combining what they think looks good which may be like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/578">TS</a>]
00:09:45 ◼ ► And the concept of fidelity which is a straight forward thing that can be measured talked about in objective terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/585">TS</a>]
00:09:51 ◼ ► moralist and young people coming back. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/591">TS</a>]
00:09:55 ◼ ► and everything like that you know instead of digital it's like that's not what we're talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/595">TS</a>]
00:09:58 ◼ ► Like whatever whatever it is do you. Think sounds good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/598">TS</a>]
00:10:00 ◼ ► All we're talking about is given that sound that I probably made a mistake in the live insurance because I had to deal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/600">TS</a>]
00:10:05 ◼ ► with all the people who are going to live music. Give them something even some sound that you think is awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/605">TS</a>]
00:10:11 ◼ ► What is the best way to transport that sound through space and time to reproduce it elsewhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/611">TS</a>]
00:10:16 ◼ ► That's all we're talking about it has nothing to do it whether you like to banter saws they bands they like six tring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/616">TS</a>]
00:10:21 ◼ ► to bars or five string whether you like someone sing into a paper bag [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/621">TS</a>]
00:10:24 ◼ ► or whatever the sound is you've produced a sound a song live recorded whatever you want to get that across space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/624">TS</a>]
00:10:30 ◼ ► and time to someone else you want to put it on something so that that sound that you love can get to them exactly as it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/630">TS</a>]
00:10:35 ◼ ► is to have whatever that sound is. Master however you want to where you want how do you get that sound. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/635">TS</a>]
00:10:39 ◼ ► CD verses while that's what we were talking about everything else is like immaterial I don't care if you like the sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/639">TS</a>]
00:10:46 ◼ ► of silence singing through a paper bag [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/646">TS</a>]
00:10:49 ◼ ► or another no not talking about bio I don't care if you like Tom Waits I don't care if you know what kind of music you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/649">TS</a>]
00:10:55 ◼ ► are listening you have it you have something there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/655">TS</a>]
00:10:57 ◼ ► and then live music was easy because like oh I hear that now you just want to put that on something so it could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/657">TS</a>]
00:11:02 ◼ ► played back elsewhere and if your choices are CD and vinyl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/662">TS</a>]
00:11:05 ◼ ► and you care about the fidelity of the reproduction you should pick a CD instead of vinyl and that's it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/665">TS</a>]
00:11:10 ◼ ► And everything else people want to talk about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/670">TS</a>]
00:11:12 ◼ ► It's so hard for them to maintain focus it was hard for us to maintain folks who have drifting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/672">TS</a>]
00:11:16 ◼ ► but it's a difficult topic to talk about I think and I think you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/676">TS</a>]
00:11:20 ◼ ► and I think I think you're right in saying that we all agree that if if a deli is truly the issue that I can get behind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/680">TS</a>]
00:11:28 ◼ ► the science even though I give it a little bit aside I never saw last I can get behind the science that says I'm crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/688">TS</a>]
00:11:34 ◼ ► and that digital mediums are the better hire the daily method of reproducing music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/694">TS</a>]
00:11:41 ◼ ► but just as you said I actually happen to prefer the tea ceremony the emotion behind like I was talking to my wife Erin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/701">TS</a>]
00:11:48 ◼ ► about it she said well you know you have to consider you grew up with final [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/708">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► and this was something that had that carries a lot of emotional baggage I think John one of you guys might have said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/711">TS</a>]
00:11:55 ◼ ► that last week. Anyway it carries a lot of emotional baggage that for most. Humans especially in this day and age. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/715">TS</a>]
00:12:02 ◼ ► They don't have that emotional baggage. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/722">TS</a>]
00:12:03 ◼ ► And I say baggage actually in a good way in this context I'm sure you probably think of it that's a bad thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/723">TS</a>]
00:12:08 ◼ ► But nevertheless I know one thing I learned from this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/728">TS</a>]
00:12:11 ◼ ► and I'm really being serious is that it is very frustrating to say something which admittedly is a bit contrarian [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/731">TS</a>]
00:12:19 ◼ ► and admittedly I did kind of pick this fight so admittedly I kind of made this head for myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/739">TS</a>]
00:12:25 ◼ ► but man is it frustrating to say something that you truly believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/745">TS</a>]
00:12:29 ◼ ► and then the whole of the Internet decides to come out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/749">TS</a>]
00:12:32 ◼ ► and tell you how wrong you are in that in of itself I can deal with that that's fine I've been wrong point times will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/752">TS</a>]
00:12:39 ◼ ► but it was very frustrating for me to receive a whole bunch of feedback from people who had perhaps never even heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/759">TS</a>]
00:12:46 ◼ ► vinyl before in their lives yet decided to take the time out of their day to explain to me how wrong I am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/766">TS</a>]
00:12:57 ◼ ► and I don't want it to sound like a complaint what I want to sound like is I learned a little bit that I think I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/777">TS</a>]
00:13:05 ◼ ► and I can think of a great example other than maybe snickering at somebody pulling out an Android phone for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/785">TS</a>]
00:13:13 ◼ ► I don't I don't want to be that guy and I think I am that guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/793">TS</a>]
00:13:16 ◼ ► and it so was a very good learning experience for me that I need to stop being that guy. Does that make sense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/796">TS</a>]
00:13:22 ◼ ► Yeah I think I don't know I mean you know we're always going to get the guy so much more to say about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/802">TS</a>]
00:13:30 ◼ ► We're always going to get you know people who disagree with what we say we always do every week I mean we get to give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/810">TS</a>]
00:13:37 ◼ ► listeners some idea. We get probably I would say twenty feedback e-mails a day. These days it's a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/817">TS</a>]
00:13:46 ◼ ► I'm shocked how much feedback we get from the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/826">TS</a>]
00:13:49 ◼ ► And I should quit very quickly interject and say I can't speak for you too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/829">TS</a>]
00:13:53 ◼ ► but I try very hard to read every single piece and at worst skim every single piece of feedback that we do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/833">TS</a>]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Yeah me too and it's he really does like when you only get like a couple a week. That's easy to keep up with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/840">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► Now it's getting hard to keep up with my kids. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/847">TS</a>]
00:14:09 ◼ ► It's getting we get so much out it's kind of difficult because some of them you know some of them are a few lines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/849">TS</a>]
00:14:16 ◼ ► Some of them are like six paragraphs six dense paragraphs at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/856">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► and those like it takes some serious time to get through it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/860">TS</a>]
00:14:24 ◼ ► But anyway you know I think we we are expressing our opinions in public. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/864">TS</a>]
00:14:30 ◼ ► Lots of what we say is going to be argued with. That's just the nature of putting yourself out there. Right right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/870">TS</a>]
00:14:36 ◼ ► I like I mean I've I've been putting myself out there in my and my often rash or incorrect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/876">TS</a>]
00:14:43 ◼ ► or badly stated opinions out there online for the better part of a decade now pretty consistently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/883">TS</a>]
00:14:50 ◼ ► and whenever I say something that everyone jumps down my throat for for being totally wrong or off base [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/890">TS</a>]
00:14:57 ◼ ► or are misinformed or just just not very well stated. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/897">TS</a>]
00:15:02 ◼ ► I learned something from that and I appreciate that because most people don't expose themselves to that much criticism. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/902">TS</a>]
00:15:10 ◼ ► Most people don't have an audience to tell them when they're wrong and who actually will tell them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/910">TS</a>]
00:15:16 ◼ ► when they're wrong and an audience that's big and diverse and smart enough to notice when they're wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/916">TS</a>]
00:15:21 ◼ ► and to be able to express that in any kind of useful way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/921">TS</a>]
00:15:25 ◼ ► So most people tend to be terrible arguers have narrow world views etc etc And it's hard to get people to change their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/925">TS</a>]
00:15:34 ◼ ► mind when they spend their whole life thinking that they're right and no one has really ever challenged him on that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/934">TS</a>]
00:15:40 ◼ ► So I'm very thankful that we have the opportunity which most people don't have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/940">TS</a>]
00:15:44 ◼ ► We we as pod cast or as anyone else who's a pod cast or a blogger or any other way that you can put yourself out there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/944">TS</a>]
00:15:51 ◼ ► We are lucky that we have the opportunity to be criticised by a massive worldwide audience. Even if your audience is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/951">TS</a>]
00:16:01 ◼ ► That's still twenty five random strangers who don't care as much about how you feel as your family does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/961">TS</a>]
00:16:05 ◼ ► and who are willing to tell you when you screw something up and you know as the audience gets larger It hurts more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/965">TS</a>]
00:16:12 ◼ ► when you screw up because you have more people telling you that you're an idiot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/972">TS</a>]
00:16:15 ◼ ► But I think it is useful and it's useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/975">TS</a>]
00:16:19 ◼ ► and so like in your case you know as John said like in your case you have you know with that with the vinyl thing like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/979">TS</a>]
00:16:26 ◼ ► you expressed valid opinions there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/986">TS</a>]
00:16:28 ◼ ► However you word of them in a way and you made a generalization that you couldn't support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/988">TS</a>]
00:16:35 ◼ ► and so the feedback kept beating that into your head. And this is true and it's you know it certainly was not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/995">TS</a>]
00:16:44 ◼ ► Certainly was not probably easy to read everyone saying that you were wrong although by the way there are a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1004">TS</a>]
00:16:50 ◼ ► I should point out but like your main your main point was that it sounds better because it sounded better to you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1010">TS</a>]
00:16:59 ◼ ► A solid argument would have been you like the sound better right and I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1019">TS</a>]
00:17:04 ◼ ► and I think I fell on my face because I painted it like John was saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1024">TS</a>]
00:17:07 ◼ ► and like you're saying now I painted it as a universal statement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1027">TS</a>]
00:17:11 ◼ ► when I really shouldn't have that it was factually better that it it was superior to C.D.'s [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1031">TS</a>]
00:17:17 ◼ ► and while I might prefer the experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1037">TS</a>]
00:17:19 ◼ ► and in the quirks of the sound I don't think that I should have gone as bold as I did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1039">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► and as one of the feedback things actually couple people did us like for that if if we could just take that sound that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:31 ◼ ► you love and recorded on to see the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1051">TS</a>]
00:17:33 ◼ ► and play it back to you in a way that you didn't know whether we were playing back the vinyl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1053">TS</a>]
00:17:37 ◼ ► or not you you would not be able to tell like we would be exactly accurate if you're producing that vinyl sound that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1057">TS</a>]
00:17:43 ◼ ► you love with every nuance to the help of you know what I mean like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1063">TS</a>]
00:17:47 ◼ ► And that that's gets to the heart of the matter and we're all for you liking whatever sound you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1067">TS</a>]
00:17:52 ◼ ► but like we're talking about when we talk about mediums [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1072">TS</a>]
00:17:55 ◼ ► and we just say the word vinyl you're not talking about his song or a sound you're talking about a medium and that's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1075">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► And that's a different alphabet so many different ways to try to come at this trying to get people to understand what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:04 ◼ ► is keep going back to whichever side they're on where they're like No way and then vinyls awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1084">TS</a>]
00:18:08 ◼ ► or like vinyl is always evil like people just don't want to define the boundaries of what it is that they're saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1088">TS</a>]
00:18:15 ◼ ► and it's impossible to come to any sort of agreement or disagreement if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1095">TS</a>]
00:18:18 ◼ ► but if no one is defining the boundaries of what they're saying a lot of like the special between frankly you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1098">TS</a>]
00:18:23 ◼ ► blame it's hard to talk about this in a single tweet fell victim to that both you know on all sides of the debate are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1103">TS</a>]
00:18:29 ◼ ► the best ones where they say I like tweets on any topic of us I I agree with Casey about this I agree with Mark about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1109">TS</a>]
00:18:36 ◼ ► this I disagree with John about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1116">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► and they will ascribe to all three of us opinions that like that fifty percent time we didn't take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:43 ◼ ► and I think you know I agree with Largo that that Starbucks coffee is great I agree with Casey that all cars should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1123">TS</a>]
00:18:50 ◼ ► black and I agree with John the pearls is terrible language you know that's a silly example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1130">TS</a>]
00:18:54 ◼ ► but it's like you put our names in a tweet and you've expressed your own opinions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1134">TS</a>]
00:18:58 ◼ ► but you have by implication the scribe the opposite opinions to us and I don't think we ever anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1138">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► But if the excitement of feedback I agree with Mark getting of the feedback as I've said many times is very valuable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:10 ◼ ► We're lucky to get a lot of it you too can get a lot of it as well if you just go to online communities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1150">TS</a>]
00:19:14 ◼ ► and whatever topic you're interested in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1154">TS</a>]
00:19:16 ◼ ► and just start you know I guess out of usenet in my past where it wasn't it wasn't a big audience as we have here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1156">TS</a>]
00:19:22 ◼ ► but doesn't take you know only takes like four or five Mean people to put you in your place for a couple years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1162">TS</a>]
00:19:28 ◼ ► and again I don't I don't mean to complain necessarily about getting feedback I don't mean to complain about all of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1168">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► Internet or my head thinking I'm wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:38 ◼ ► That actually doesn't bother me what was frustrating was people who really didn't have to be blunt. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1178">TS</a>]
00:19:44 ◼ ► Anything that constructive to add just coming out of the woodwork and saying you're wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1184">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► and you're wrong because I read something once that's just not helpful were something that Mark did which he said OK [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:55 ◼ ► From personal experience let me take you through why you did. If you're wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1195">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► That is infinitely valuable and extraordinarily valuable I'm very thankful for that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:05 ◼ ► But the other people are expressing their enthusiasm like even if they're there they're doing it in a way that makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1205">TS</a>]
00:20:11 ◼ ► They're there saying we listen to the show and B we are enthusiastic enough about it to seek you out on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1211">TS</a>]
00:20:17 ◼ ► and send you something. So there are there is even good in that I think. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1217">TS</a>]
00:20:20 ◼ ► Yeah I agree and that's why even on the e-mails that I want to reach to the computer and back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1220">TS</a>]
00:20:24 ◼ ► and whoever wrote even on those e-mails I try always to force myself to do an e-mail in such a way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1224">TS</a>]
00:20:32 ◼ ► when I write thank you for listening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1232">TS</a>]
00:20:34 ◼ ► and thanks for your feedback that it's taken is genuine because I do mean it genuinely even if I want to freaking kill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1234">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► So I don't know maybe this is too inside baseball this might be boring maybe we'll cut it I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:47 ◼ ► but it's just the point I was trying to get to was that it made me look at myself with a bit of a critical eye which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1247">TS</a>]
00:20:56 ◼ ► again is even more reason why even the feedback that I'm moaning is actually valuable in its own way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1256">TS</a>]
00:21:03 ◼ ► and to point out also I actually. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1263">TS</a>]
00:21:06 ◼ ► So I've been in this high end audio world for a lot recently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1266">TS</a>]
00:21:10 ◼ ► and I've found that like so the reason why I don't like vinyl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1270">TS</a>]
00:21:16 ◼ ► and a lot of analysts is all the same reason why I had a chance to to have a tube amp in my house for a couple of weeks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1276">TS</a>]
00:21:23 ◼ ► to try out and I didn't like it and ended up not buying one. The reason why people like vinyl sound. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1283">TS</a>]
00:21:32 ◼ ► but the reason why the people who do like it like it in addition to all the things you talked about last week about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1292">TS</a>]
00:21:37 ◼ ► tea ceremony and the romanticism of it and how hip and awesome it looks and everything a slow an artisanal a manual. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1297">TS</a>]
00:21:45 ◼ ► In addition to all that crap it does sound different and it sounds different in various ways that people find pleasing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1305">TS</a>]
00:21:56 ◼ ► Now as. But you know that wasn't the argument the drums making against. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1316">TS</a>]
00:22:00 ◼ ► You however that was what most people thought when you know what for they are going about vinyl siding better than CD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1320">TS</a>]
00:22:08 ◼ ► You know in my own purchases and what I found in my experiences with high end audio stuff what I like is neutrality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1328">TS</a>]
00:22:20 ◼ ► So for instance I don't use a tube amp because I use sensitive headphones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1340">TS</a>]
00:22:24 ◼ ► and sensitive headphones you can very easily pick up the noise introduced by two bands. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1344">TS</a>]
00:22:29 ◼ ► You can also occasionally get like a little pop if a piece of dust hits the wrong way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1349">TS</a>]
00:22:33 ◼ ► or something like that like it's just not it is it's it's almost like like records you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1353">TS</a>]
00:22:41 ◼ ► You're introducing distortion you're introducing noise so I try to get very very nice digital stuff so everything is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1361">TS</a>]
00:22:48 ◼ ► solid state there's there's you know no moving parts with a volume knob. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1368">TS</a>]
00:22:52 ◼ ► There is as little noise introduced as possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1372">TS</a>]
00:22:57 ◼ ► and there is a little you know total imbalance introduced as possible and I actually took a little too far. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1377">TS</a>]
00:23:05 ◼ ► So my my current set up is I have a sunrise or H.D. Eight hundred headphones plugged into the shit. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1385">TS</a>]
00:23:12 ◼ ► Asghar two that is actually its name and shit by frost DAC and it looks amazing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1392">TS</a>]
00:23:21 ◼ ► These things all look fancy and also they sound great. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1401">TS</a>]
00:23:26 ◼ ► The main reason I like the shit amp and that is because they have like zero noise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1406">TS</a>]
00:23:30 ◼ ► and I can hear anything that I have that's not because they're the shack and the name helps too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1410">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► and they look pretty awesome and they're they're small and they are reasonably priced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:39 ◼ ► and I like to be the super neutral now. The Sennheiser H.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1419">TS</a>]
00:23:42 ◼ ► Eight hundred headphones the best I can say about them is that they are the most neutral headphones ever heard. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1422">TS</a>]
00:23:48 ◼ ► The downside of this is that they actually sound a little bit boring on certain things like certain types of music. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1428">TS</a>]
00:23:56 ◼ ► I actually like the distortion by things like amp. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1436">TS</a>]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Following the high end that you hear and some biodynamic models or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1440">TS</a>]
00:24:05 ◼ ► or the more the bigger base I have on my clothes headphones the one hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1445">TS</a>]
00:24:09 ◼ ► and certain things I like that distortion now throughout through up all my research [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1449">TS</a>]
00:24:14 ◼ ► and findings haven't actually I tried a few other models I ended up returning or selling in the meantime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1454">TS</a>]
00:24:18 ◼ ► and I found people's opinions vary dramatically on what they considered sounding good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1458">TS</a>]
00:24:25 ◼ ► So one of the most popular lines of Sennheiser H.D. Six hundred six fifty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1465">TS</a>]
00:24:29 ◼ ► Those actually have pretty muted high end and I didn't like that sound a lot of people loved it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1469">TS</a>]
00:24:37 ◼ ► and similarly certain people don't like the biodynamic super strong high end and I like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1477">TS</a>]
00:24:44 ◼ ► and what I found is that you know keeping everything neutral up until the point of the actual headphones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1484">TS</a>]
00:24:50 ◼ ► Well I mean that choice gives me flexibility like you can simulate all the other so you can simulate vinyl with digital [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1490">TS</a>]
00:24:57 ◼ ► plugins and equalizers and stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1497">TS</a>]
00:25:01 ◼ ► and you can simulate most of the most of the effects of what people like about these things electronically artificially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1501">TS</a>]
00:25:09 ◼ ► if you want to just like Instagram. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1509">TS</a>]
00:25:11 ◼ ► You know can you know can simulate the distortions of certain old processes or things that you know or like idealized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1511">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► or enhanced versions of old processes and old distortions that used to exist in the analog world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:24 ◼ ► and that produces more pleasing looking photos just to a lot of people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1524">TS</a>]
00:25:27 ◼ ► So it's important to recognize like you know I like I like everything to be digital and pure and clean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1527">TS</a>]
00:25:34 ◼ ► and neutral up until the point where I have my headphones I can make that choice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1534">TS</a>]
00:25:37 ◼ ► and say either I want to listen to something with a lot of bass with this pair of headphones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1537">TS</a>]
00:25:40 ◼ ► or I want to listen to something that's neutral with this pair of headphones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1540">TS</a>]
00:25:43 ◼ ► and I reckon that's a crazy set up however that's how I am and that's how I did it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1543">TS</a>]
00:25:46 ◼ ► but you know none of that like the argument John was making last week is that C.D.'s are are better at being neutral [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1546">TS</a>]
00:25:55 ◼ ► they're better accurately and neutrally replicating the recording. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1555">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► And that's that is correct that is one hundred percent right and most people though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:06 ◼ ► when they're arguing about what sounds better or worse or what is better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1566">TS</a>]
00:26:09 ◼ ► or worse they don't put it in those terms of personal preference or of like the difference between neutrality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1569">TS</a>]
00:26:16 ◼ ► and pleasing sound because that's of those there's a very different things perfectly neutral sounds boring to a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1576">TS</a>]
00:26:22 ◼ ► people like when I ended our podcast with perfectly neutral. However my Listen to phish a little bit more bass. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1582">TS</a>]
00:26:29 ◼ ► when I listen to fish I put on the other headphones you know it's it's very important to distinguish those things personal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1589">TS</a>]
00:26:35 ◼ ► preference or more pleasing versus accurate and neutral and I think you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1595">TS</a>]
00:26:41 ◼ ► but I don't know this is probably getting a bit old now I want to talk about something that's cool I would love to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1601">TS</a>]
00:26:47 ◼ ► It's our friends at P.D.F. Penn once again this is P.D.F. Pen for i Pad P.-A pen for i Pad lets you edit P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1607">TS</a>]
00:26:55 ◼ ► Anywhere you are as long as you have an i Pad with you that happens to be running P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1615">TS</a>]
00:26:58 ◼ ► Pen However anywhere you are with one of those things you can edit P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1618">TS</a>]
00:27:02 ◼ ► You can sign contracts you can fix a typo you can actually edit the P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1622">TS</a>]
00:27:06 ◼ ► Right there on your device you can correct a price list you can fill out a form while you're on the go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1626">TS</a>]
00:27:13 ◼ ► Document with you anytime add notes highlighting add mark up during your mobile down time you can sync P.D.'s with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1633">TS</a>]
00:27:20 ◼ ► P.D.F. Pen for O S ten using i Cloud or Dropbox is P.D.F. and Is for a left hand and you can grab an SES P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1640">TS</a>]
00:27:28 ◼ ► Using Dropbox Evernote Google Drive box. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1648">TS</a>]
00:27:31 ◼ ► I guess it isn't called Boston anymore that right they dropped the dot net now it's a box. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1651">TS</a>]
00:27:36 ◼ ► Anyway you can say P.D.'s to that or from that even web and F.T.P. Servers and anywhere you are with P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1656">TS</a>]
00:27:44 ◼ ► Ten for i Pad You have the complete feature rich mobile editing power of P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1664">TS</a>]
00:27:48 ◼ ► and It's available in the App Store now a lot of talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1668">TS</a>]
00:27:53 ◼ ► but there's a lot of apps these days haven't even Iowa seven yet they're not native you know the kind of ignored P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1673">TS</a>]
00:28:03 ◼ ► and there's tons of they're always making tons of improvements performance improvements everything else they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1683">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► fantastic and it seems like your stuff once again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:13 ◼ ► They even support a few of the pressure sensitive pens on the market. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1693">TS</a>]
00:28:17 ◼ ► The most popular ones they support the jock touch the Pogo connect and the Jaja [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1697">TS</a>]
00:28:22 ◼ ► or Haha I'm not sure which one is that is but it's J.J. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1702">TS</a>]
00:28:25 ◼ ► That one which is either Joshua or ha ha or maybe John or Hodge who knows but they support that one. So check out P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1705">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► Pen for i Pad going to smile Software dot com slash A.T.P. That is smile Software dot com slash A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:41 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to P.D.F. Pen for i Pad for sponsoring our show once again. I'll tell you I I use P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1721">TS</a>]
00:28:47 ◼ ► Penitence has I use it more in the math on the i Pad Just so that's where I am most of the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1727">TS</a>]
00:28:51 ◼ ► but it's boy it's an amazing piece of software and it saves my butt pretty frequently. So thanks a lot to P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1731">TS</a>]
00:28:57 ◼ ► and For i Pad once again we didn't get a chance to talk about last week because we were too busy arguing didn't get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1737">TS</a>]
00:29:05 ◼ ► chance to talk about this trial with Samsung between Samsung and Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1745">TS</a>]
00:29:10 ◼ ► and there's been some interesting things coming out of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1750">TS</a>]
00:29:13 ◼ ► and we've gotten to look at some of the behind the scenes at how Apple does stuff how they get their jobs done as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1753">TS</a>]
00:29:23 ◼ ► result of a lot of the discovery during the trial so I know John you have any thoughts on this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1763">TS</a>]
00:29:29 ◼ ► Yeah I picked out I'm taking on not so much of the tales of the trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1769">TS</a>]
00:29:32 ◼ ► or whatever because there's no one how to do it patents through and pay attention but you know I think about patents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1772">TS</a>]
00:29:37 ◼ ► or whatever but yeah because as part of the discovery process [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1777">TS</a>]
00:29:41 ◼ ► or some other legal term that I don't know really internal documents from Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1781">TS</a>]
00:29:47 ◼ ► and it's great because Apple is what's great for us and I know it's great for Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1787">TS</a>]
00:29:51 ◼ ► That's all the discussion but we get so little insight into what goes on in Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1791">TS</a>]
00:29:56 ◼ ► We just see their public face and their public face is so incredibly controlled. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1796">TS</a>]
00:30:00 ◼ ► And I think it's even more control now than it used to be said many times before and the good old days with Steve Jobs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1800">TS</a>]
00:30:06 ◼ ► Yes Apple's message was controlled but Steve Jobs had the ability and often took it to just go off book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1806">TS</a>]
00:30:13 ◼ ► and do have the hell he wants and say whatever the hell you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1813">TS</a>]
00:30:15 ◼ ► and whatever way you want that I'm sure he was you know controlling Calvin as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1815">TS</a>]
00:30:19 ◼ ► but you never quite knew what he was going to say. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1819">TS</a>]
00:30:20 ◼ ► Tim Cook you're not going to make him slip up and say something you're not going to get something exciting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1820">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► and so far it seems like he is very on message and very controlled strategic leaking things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:31 ◼ ► and saying this sort of way in choosing his words very carefully. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1831">TS</a>]
00:30:34 ◼ ► But the Steve Jobs felt like it was a chance he might you know either act like he's just suddenly caught up in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1834">TS</a>]
00:30:40 ◼ ► moment and saying something spontaneous or actually do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1840">TS</a>]
00:30:44 ◼ ► But anyway these documents are internal Apple documents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1844">TS</a>]
00:30:47 ◼ ► and from the outside a lot of people to Apple's arrogant Apple's out of touch they don't know they use really want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1847">TS</a>]
00:30:53 ◼ ► but these internal documents make it very very clear that that is not the case that that is merely their external face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1853">TS</a>]
00:30:58 ◼ ► that they control so well but internally this is the fiscal year twenty fourteen planning offsite slide deck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1858">TS</a>]
00:31:05 ◼ ► and you can see some of the slides. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1865">TS</a>]
00:31:07 ◼ ► If you haven't seen them overdoing the Seante to check them out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1867">TS</a>]
00:31:09 ◼ ► but I'll I'll read off on the sizes of the first slide it says they're talking about i Phone sales [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1869">TS</a>]
00:31:15 ◼ ► and it says growth rates are slowing and they show a graph that shows growth rates going down down down down down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1875">TS</a>]
00:31:20 ◼ ► Apple of course would never show a slide like this in public. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1880">TS</a>]
00:31:24 ◼ ► Why are they going to you know that puts them in a bad light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1884">TS</a>]
00:31:29 ◼ ► and again something as simple as this showing growth rates long yes you'll see stories about Apple about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1889">TS</a>]
00:31:34 ◼ ► and if someone actually gets in touch with Apple Masson by that they'll say some you know blah blah blah kind of well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1894">TS</a>]
00:31:40 ◼ ► we think we were you know on the right track in mobile or work you know they'll say some stupid P.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1900">TS</a>]
00:31:44 ◼ ► Thing but here they are saying when they're talking to themselves like here's the graph growth rate is really slowing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1904">TS</a>]
00:31:49 ◼ ► Next lie they say So what's going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1909">TS</a>]
00:31:51 ◼ ► and they have a little section here is as strong as the man is coming from less expensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1911">TS</a>]
00:31:55 ◼ ► and larger screen smart phones carriers have strong interest in capping. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1915">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► I Phone due to one or more factors high share the subsidy premium unfriendly policy unfairly using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:05 ◼ ► and quote lack of alignment so they're basically saying cut customers want cheap fronts a bigger screens. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1925">TS</a>]
00:32:10 ◼ ► Carriers carries don't like us that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1930">TS</a>]
00:32:12 ◼ ► and they don't like us we're going to reasons because we are more demanding of them because we in these unfriendly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1932">TS</a>]
00:32:16 ◼ ► policies that we have are subsidies really high a lack of alignment with you know our interests are aligned with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1936">TS</a>]
00:32:23 ◼ ► carriers you know that they're really laying out the carriers don't like us that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1943">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► and competitors nature little Android competitors have drastically improved their hardware and software software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:33 ◼ ► and their ecosystems and the spending obscene also in scare quotes amounts of money on advertising [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1953">TS</a>]
00:32:39 ◼ ► and carrier channel to gain traction which is a Samsung things laying out like here here her problems we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1959">TS</a>]
00:32:45 ◼ ► get there but it could mean there is you know people want and this is a tile the site is great. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1965">TS</a>]
00:32:50 ◼ ► Next what consumers want what we don't have getting right now is Apple saying that in public what we don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1970">TS</a>]
00:32:57 ◼ ► and so they show like the market share growth they said where did the growth come from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1977">TS</a>]
00:33:03 ◼ ► and this I know I wish there was a better breakdown of maybe there was the same way to the growth in the industry come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1983">TS</a>]
00:33:08 ◼ ► from shows the growth in IT SAYS I don't can't do the percentages here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1988">TS</a>]
00:33:13 ◼ ► but more than half the growth came from phones there are less than three hundred dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1993">TS</a>]
00:33:17 ◼ ► and the rest of the growth came from screens that are more than three hundred dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/1997">TS</a>]
00:33:21 ◼ ► but have screens that are bigger than four inches. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2001">TS</a>]
00:33:23 ◼ ► The real objection I have to this graph is OK great you identified that that the majority of the growth is coming from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2003">TS</a>]
00:33:29 ◼ ► phones that are less than three hundred dollars. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2009">TS</a>]
00:33:31 ◼ ► I think break that down more because if you take that piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2011">TS</a>]
00:33:36 ◼ ► and say OK well out of that growth actually ninety nine percent of that growth is coming from phones there are less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2016">TS</a>]
00:33:41 ◼ ► than five dollars that is way different than saying OK well most of this coming from how much less than three hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2021">TS</a>]
00:33:46 ◼ ► dollars break it down is it as if you know what the average house what the distribution in there without knowing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2026">TS</a>]
00:33:53 ◼ ► But anyway this is the high level slide so I take him they have broken it down in turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2033">TS</a>]
00:33:57 ◼ ► and I just again I would like to see that broken down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2037">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► Didn't And all this reminded me of a book I'm reading now which I recommend everybody will point in the show notes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:06 ◼ ► It's a cat most book called creativity Inc It's not really a memoir manifesto it's more just an exploration of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2046">TS</a>]
00:34:15 ◼ ► early history of Pixar and what Catmull and the rest of the company has done to to make that organization function [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2055">TS</a>]
00:34:23 ◼ ► And a big focus on the book is being clear eyed about your own problems and candid about them internally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2063">TS</a>]
00:34:31 ◼ ► and I don't think so it's not Apple I don't know if the jobs didn't have nearly as much involvement in Pixar as it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2071">TS</a>]
00:34:38 ◼ ► but see parallels between you know the things that are in this book in the approach Apple is taking here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2078">TS</a>]
00:34:45 ◼ ► Apple is very clear eyed in the slides they are not sugar coating it better not like Rob Rob like yeah we may have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2085">TS</a>]
00:34:51 ◼ ► problems that we still have the best known is in his office the slides are just you know there's not a lot of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2091">TS</a>]
00:34:56 ◼ ► but they're essentially unrelentingly negative towards Apple and you know that's how they have to be that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2096">TS</a>]
00:35:01 ◼ ► and that's how Apple improves so I felt better about seeing these lives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2101">TS</a>]
00:35:05 ◼ ► and it made me think that at least some of the culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2105">TS</a>]
00:35:08 ◼ ► and strategies described in that excellent book way Catmull are alive and well Apple's Well yeah I think it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2108">TS</a>]
00:35:17 ◼ ► It's fantastic to see that Apple knows its own problems it knows its own shortcomings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2117">TS</a>]
00:35:23 ◼ ► but I think that's not really that much news necessarily. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2123">TS</a>]
00:35:29 ◼ ► To me seeing all these like I see all these trial documents and like the e-mail of Phil Schiller [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2129">TS</a>]
00:35:33 ◼ ► and everything it really just says to me that this company is you know by being as private as they usually are they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2133">TS</a>]
00:35:42 ◼ ► saving us from the boredom. And there can be the relative routine in this that's actually in their company. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2142">TS</a>]
00:35:50 ◼ ► This is these are like the only big surprise here is these people are actually acting somewhat human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2150">TS</a>]
00:35:56 ◼ ► but they're all you know they're saying not that surprising things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2156">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► There something boring business emails for their advertising agency that doesn't even capitalize anything which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► or help out with that with all other things like that that fell short like this article was supposed to be sensational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:11 ◼ ► and so one of the things they show over the email where Phil show is being angry too is that initially what I took away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2171">TS</a>]
00:36:16 ◼ ► from that exchange was how incredibly low the bar is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2176">TS</a>]
00:36:20 ◼ ► and see like it's like this is your I didn't see you you're the biggest country in the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2180">TS</a>]
00:36:26 ◼ ► and these jokers are doing your ads. Boy that's just the pressing I got. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2186">TS</a>]
00:36:31 ◼ ► Not everything can be up to the standard of Avalon Pixar I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2191">TS</a>]
00:36:34 ◼ ► and that's just yeah yeah I mean what I what I really just found that these with these documents is like wow this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2194">TS</a>]
00:36:41 ◼ ► all really boring stuff that I like like because very little of newsworthiness here except that you know Apple usually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2201">TS</a>]
00:36:50 ◼ ► does a really good job of keeping what comes out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2210">TS</a>]
00:36:54 ◼ ► Interesting you know keeping their public image interesting and secretive and and well edited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2214">TS</a>]
00:37:01 ◼ ► and you see you see now on the inside that yeah it's it's a big company dealing with big company problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2221">TS</a>]
00:37:06 ◼ ► and doing things the big companies do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2226">TS</a>]
00:37:09 ◼ ► And my not seeing the novelty of it I compare it to I mean I work for a lot different companies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2229">TS</a>]
00:37:14 ◼ ► but the one people may have heard of that for for a time I work for Palm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2234">TS</a>]
00:37:17 ◼ ► and I didn't I wasn't very close to the leadership of the organization but internal to the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2237">TS</a>]
00:37:22 ◼ ► when I worked for Palm I got presentations from you know some of the big leagues came to visit us because we're in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2242">TS</a>]
00:37:27 ◼ ► different location and gave us a presentation on the state of Palm and what their plans were for the business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2247">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► and their slides were not candid and didn't accurately identify the problem they're facing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:36 ◼ ► They were much more kind of like we're actually still doing pretty good in the P.T.A. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2256">TS</a>]
00:37:41 ◼ ► Space and the phones are coming on but we've got these trio things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2261">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► and like it was like even to me inside the company I'm like you guys are in denial of these That's why we're showing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:50 ◼ ► We're showing these lies to ourselves internally we're not being honest with ourselves about the state I mean you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2270">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► hope that they would you know we saw it and we felt that maybe they held it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2276">TS</a>]
00:38:00 ◼ ► Just didn't feel as honest and straight forward and like if you if you don't think these Apple slides are novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2280">TS</a>]
00:38:05 ◼ ► or interesting like I don't have that much experience in big tech companies but I have seen it from big and small. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2285">TS</a>]
00:38:11 ◼ ► Most companies are not this candid about themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2291">TS</a>]
00:38:14 ◼ ► and are not are not this accurate like you know are not able to exactly pinpoint where their weak points are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2294">TS</a>]
00:38:20 ◼ ► and nail them in that way and I guess that shows you know competence internally and skill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2300">TS</a>]
00:38:25 ◼ ► and if they weren't that skill they wouldn't be where they are today so I think there is something to it it's not we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2305">TS</a>]
00:38:29 ◼ ► can just accept that every company does this because I think many of them don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2309">TS</a>]
00:38:34 ◼ ► The other thing that we didn't talk about last week which we could have is some guy that apparently I was supposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2314">TS</a>]
00:38:42 ◼ ► He's leaving Apple and that guy is Greg Christie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2322">TS</a>]
00:38:45 ◼ ► and did either of you two heard of him before I'm assuming John that you had but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2325">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► but Marco Have you heard of this gentleman before last week. No I still don't even believe this is really a story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:56 ◼ ► Well there was there were stories about him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2336">TS</a>]
00:38:58 ◼ ► He was featured in recent stories before the he was leaving Apple story so even if you weren't aware of him before that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2338">TS</a>]
00:39:03 ◼ ► you want to send Duncan a name before it's like yes like two weeks ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2343">TS</a>]
00:39:07 ◼ ► You did see that name when it was I think someone did a story about the early days of the i Phone and he was heavily. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2347">TS</a>]
00:39:13 ◼ ► So that's why you might be aware from the other's looks a lot like kind of a gossip story like people arguing inside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2353">TS</a>]
00:39:18 ◼ ► Apple and then one of them leaves I mean that happens all the time in every company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2358">TS</a>]
00:39:22 ◼ ► and then you know from some people have we don't know what's really going on here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2362">TS</a>]
00:39:28 ◼ ► but there's at least one reasonable design denial from this map [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2368">TS</a>]
00:39:31 ◼ ► and you know the details of this big breakup are not as dramatic as they seem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2371">TS</a>]
00:39:35 ◼ ► but the reason I think it's interesting is forget about how we left our wire after whatever. Like who cares right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2375">TS</a>]
00:39:43 ◼ ► The what it highlights what all the stories highlighted is it's time for them to talk about kind of oh Johnny Ives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2383">TS</a>]
00:39:51 ◼ ► organization because he is in charge of much more than he used to be in charge of anything that happens in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2391">TS</a>]
00:39:56 ◼ ► organization people coming people going or whatever. With him remaining the top. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2396">TS</a>]
00:40:01 ◼ ► In some ways like not that it reflects on him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2401">TS</a>]
00:40:04 ◼ ► but it makes us focus on him so what the story's made me do is think more about how Johnny I was doing in this position. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2404">TS</a>]
00:40:11 ◼ ► And yes part of his vision is retention or whatever but not so much in this particular thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2411">TS</a>]
00:40:15 ◼ ► but what got me thinking about was what what our Johnny Ives weaknesses in his new role as a software designer I've had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2415">TS</a>]
00:40:23 ◼ ► you know decades to think about was weaknesses are in hardware design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2423">TS</a>]
00:40:26 ◼ ► and previously was unknown what is be like in software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2426">TS</a>]
00:40:29 ◼ ► but his organization I guess you know i OS seven is the first big product of his software organization [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2429">TS</a>]
00:40:35 ◼ ► and we've all had a long time to live with it and I think his weakness is a software designer are more glaring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2435">TS</a>]
00:40:43 ◼ ► and obvious than they are Harbor may be and in fact they're very similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2443">TS</a>]
00:40:47 ◼ ► and so any time anything happens within the organization it makes me sort of like dwell more on how he's doing in his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2447">TS</a>]
00:40:56 ◼ ► new role as a software designer. And I think that's a useful avenue of thought for me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2456">TS</a>]
00:41:03 ◼ ► So you're not pleased with how things are going then with Johnny film. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2463">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► Well like when somebody leaves like that even if it's on good terms bedtimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:12 ◼ ► or whatever like you have to think that it's not I've been sleeping right people under him are going to leave it there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2472">TS</a>]
00:41:18 ◼ ► and you have to think like maybe there was someone who used to be more in charge than they are now right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2478">TS</a>]
00:41:23 ◼ ► He used it like he was largely responsible for a lot of the early I thought I knew why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2483">TS</a>]
00:41:28 ◼ ► and surely his power to make changes in decisions has decreased now the Johny I have has come in above him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2488">TS</a>]
00:41:34 ◼ ► and you know to me like that's the whole thing with Johnny Ive is given has been given much more power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2494">TS</a>]
00:41:39 ◼ ► and that means the power of the people he used to have the power of had it taken away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2499">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► And if there's any sort of disagreement about what to do John as you know when as he should because he's in charge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:48 ◼ ► and what that means is that whatever his strengths [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2508">TS</a>]
00:41:51 ◼ ► and weaknesses are are imprinted even more strongly on the organization because he is not just one voice anymore he is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2511">TS</a>]
00:41:56 ◼ ► the voice either as I think it will do one point he's in the full. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2516">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► Sugar I'm your moto mode where Memoto designed in ten flagship games like Omarion Donkey Kong and many other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:07 ◼ ► and slowly climbed the ranks of the organization until essentially he was the buck stop with him for all issues related [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2527">TS</a>]
00:42:14 ◼ ► to software design and all of Nintendo and possibly several aspects of hardware design as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2534">TS</a>]
00:42:19 ◼ ► Like once you are in that position of power whatever your strengths [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2539">TS</a>]
00:42:23 ◼ ► or weaknesses are are magnified I mean it was true with Steve Jobs his strengths [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2543">TS</a>]
00:42:27 ◼ ► and weaknesses were magnified through the whole organization [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2547">TS</a>]
00:42:29 ◼ ► and so now I that's why I'm going on what I was like a software designer because these other voices weren't whether you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2549">TS</a>]
00:42:34 ◼ ► agree with them or not Scott across all Greg Christie all the other people their voices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2554">TS</a>]
00:42:39 ◼ ► and their ability to you know affect change within the organization are necessarily modified by the larger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2559">TS</a>]
00:42:45 ◼ ► and larger footprint of this one fallible individual. For better or for worse and so that's what I've got mine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2565">TS</a>]
00:42:52 ◼ ► Yeah that's interesting I mean I you know the problem is I I think you're right that that is something to watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2572">TS</a>]
00:42:59 ◼ ► but I think everything we've ever been we've heard about this about great Christie's particular departure makes it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2579">TS</a>]
00:43:05 ◼ ► sound like maybe you know maybe the problem had nothing to do with Johnny Ive And you know like we see like the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2585">TS</a>]
00:43:13 ◼ ► crazy rumor site saying you know there was some kind of friction there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2593">TS</a>]
00:43:16 ◼ ► and then you see people like John Gruber who have generally better sources on these kind of things saying oh this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2596">TS</a>]
00:43:23 ◼ ► actually you know in the works for months and he didn't even it wasn't even recent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2603">TS</a>]
00:43:27 ◼ ► and there was no bad blood he just was retiring and as the story gets older we're hearing more that it's not a story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2607">TS</a>]
00:43:38 ◼ ► Then the very minute that it broke in the news that said it was a story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2618">TS</a>]
00:43:42 ◼ ► So that's probably the reality it probably isn't a story itself now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2622">TS</a>]
00:43:45 ◼ ► Again you're right that this I mean you know Johnnie I've having a lot more power than he used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2625">TS</a>]
00:43:50 ◼ ► and becoming so powerful that he's able to get bad decisions through that is something to watch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2630">TS</a>]
00:44:00 ◼ ► Evan is a great example of some of those things you know I think Iowa seven really showed that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2640">TS</a>]
00:44:07 ◼ ► Johnny I was wanting to make a big a big change in a lot of very important stuff on I.I.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2647">TS</a>]
00:44:14 ◼ ► and He did and he went a little too far in a lot of those changes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2654">TS</a>]
00:44:17 ◼ ► But even you know as we saw last summer even from Beta one to what was released at seven point zero There were a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2657">TS</a>]
00:44:25 ◼ ► changes to rein some of that back like that the biggest one being the super thin font was replaced with a more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2665">TS</a>]
00:44:30 ◼ ► reasonably thick that missed one more reasonably waited. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2670">TS</a>]
00:44:35 ◼ ► You know things like that if they were in the lock screen having modifications to make it easier to realize that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2675">TS</a>]
00:44:41 ◼ ► have to swipe right and not up things like that you know there were a lot of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2681">TS</a>]
00:44:47 ◼ ► Or is it left out of the way there were a lot of changes made. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2687">TS</a>]
00:44:50 ◼ ► You know he went too far and he dialed back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2690">TS</a>]
00:44:53 ◼ ► and I think I was seven is great I think the design of it is great it is not perfect but it is great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2693">TS</a>]
00:45:00 ◼ ► and it is a massive improvement over six so and this is going to you know what we want from I was and I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2700">TS</a>]
00:45:06 ◼ ► but I don't know if we even have that as a topic. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2706">TS</a>]
00:45:10 ◼ ► But I think this is going to watch for you know watch for Johnny Ive getting enough power that he can get bad decisions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2710">TS</a>]
00:45:16 ◼ ► pushed through. And for him to think that these decisions are good you know those things are a problem together. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2716">TS</a>]
00:45:24 ◼ ► But other than that I don't really think this is much of a story like on this bigger story doesn't like I was going at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2724">TS</a>]
00:45:30 ◼ ► or why Christie left it only matters that he was somebody who was there for a long time who was responsible for a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2730">TS</a>]
00:45:38 ◼ ► of like it was senior person. Right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2738">TS</a>]
00:45:40 ◼ ► He wasn't just some other president he was another voice whether he agreed with Johnny Ive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2740">TS</a>]
00:45:44 ◼ ► or not at any point if if you were like the last the last the you know Godzilla standing like all the other big guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2744">TS</a>]
00:45:51 ◼ ► have left all the other people who were there from the beginning who strongly influenced the original i Phone You know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2751">TS</a>]
00:45:56 ◼ ► I mean like that's what I say about like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2756">TS</a>]
00:46:00 ◼ ► Your army a mode of life you need to have those voices that you that you will listen to because you believe like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2760">TS</a>]
00:46:05 ◼ ► they are valuable and have experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2765">TS</a>]
00:46:07 ◼ ► and even if you just left because you just like retiring right that's that's a loss. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2767">TS</a>]
00:46:11 ◼ ► That's that somebody that you don't have any organization with a wealth of experience for you to bounce your ideas off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2771">TS</a>]
00:46:16 ◼ ► of and you know I mean like I go back to be accountable to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2776">TS</a>]
00:46:19 ◼ ► but they have a whole chapter on the brain trust which I will put a link to this because I think that an excerpt on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2779">TS</a>]
00:46:24 ◼ ► some website somewhere where they will get the people the sort of the oldest and wisest people together in a room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2784">TS</a>]
00:46:31 ◼ ► and have them all tell each other what's wrong with their with their projects. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2791">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► Just about ideas are to be will respect each other and they all have a lot of experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:39 ◼ ► and any time a senior person leaves in you know in the similar role like the senior software designer for Iowa in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2799">TS</a>]
00:46:48 ◼ ► past that is a loss for the company and that's why I like it doesn't matter who cares why he left. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2808">TS</a>]
00:46:54 ◼ ► He's not there anymore and that will only serve to magnify the good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2814">TS</a>]
00:46:59 ◼ ► and the bad about I've And I would rather see him surrounded by say more senior people that he respected too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2819">TS</a>]
00:47:08 ◼ ► You know that's a temper his output [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2828">TS</a>]
00:47:10 ◼ ► but perhaps even to enhance the parts that are good about it I have to disagree with him maybe they should more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2830">TS</a>]
00:47:14 ◼ ► vehemently agree with him in certain areas where he's touting himself like that dynamic is what I what I think is lost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2834">TS</a>]
00:47:19 ◼ ► when you see your people leave you know the other thing that I'm a little concerned about just based completely on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2839">TS</a>]
00:47:27 ◼ ► theory is Johnny getting spread a little thin and I would hope that he has his trusted minion slash you know Cers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2847">TS</a>]
00:47:37 ◼ ► or whatever to to take a lot of the day to day off of his plate. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2857">TS</a>]
00:47:43 ◼ ► But based on no facts and just a bunch of assumptions it seems to me that Johnny is a fairly hands on guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2863">TS</a>]
00:47:51 ◼ ► and if he's a hands on guy and then presumably already had a full plate with hardware alone I just can't imagine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2871">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Where on to that already overflowing plate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:03 ◼ ► and still being able to be good at your job go to not only your existing job of hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2883">TS</a>]
00:48:09 ◼ ► but also good at this new job of software which really in the strictest sense he doesn't have any real experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2889">TS</a>]
00:48:16 ◼ ► or education in so that kind of concerns me a bit that he'll be spread too thin over over the next few years. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2896">TS</a>]
00:48:23 ◼ ► Well that's I think that distinction if you were to ask Johnny I'm going to play Jai I've now because I wrote a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2903">TS</a>]
00:48:28 ◼ ► about him once we had on the part of guess what he would say is this distinction between hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2908">TS</a>]
00:48:34 ◼ ► and software is an artificial one that has no bearing on the experience of using the product it's all one part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2914">TS</a>]
00:48:39 ◼ ► same product and it makes perfect sense for them to be under the same umbrella because that that separation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2919">TS</a>]
00:48:45 ◼ ► and that sort of arguing between them I guess there is a tension technically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2925">TS</a>]
00:48:48 ◼ ► but that doesn't matter to the end product that has to be one thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2928">TS</a>]
00:48:51 ◼ ► I think it's perfectly valid to have that that approach the holistic approach of the product Apple has always had it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2931">TS</a>]
00:48:58 ◼ ► just a now it's literally embodied within one person. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2938">TS</a>]
00:49:00 ◼ ► Yes is a danger of that and that maybe there was healthy tension between hardware and software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2940">TS</a>]
00:49:03 ◼ ► but I don't worry about him being spread too thin because I think he is fulfilling sort of the Steve Jobs type role of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2943">TS</a>]
00:49:10 ◼ ► set the direction be tastemaker give thumbs up thumbs down he's not in there draw new eyes in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2950">TS</a>]
00:49:16 ◼ ► and you know one of the time or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2956">TS</a>]
00:49:18 ◼ ► Well you know I mean he's got a staff of the people who do that but in the end the buck stops with him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2958">TS</a>]
00:49:23 ◼ ► and if he really wanted to be a super skinny font on a white background that's what it's going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2963">TS</a>]
00:49:27 ◼ ► and like Margo said it's not you know if you have to dial a back line in many ways it's better to go to go to big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2967">TS</a>]
00:49:34 ◼ ► and then scale it back then to be too timid you know I mean so I'm not giving in like a bad grade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2974">TS</a>]
00:49:39 ◼ ► or anything I'm just I'm just watching it because I would rather see ideas have to fight for their life as hard as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2979">TS</a>]
00:49:48 ◼ ► and only the best ones make it out then to sort of slide towards a situation where there is not enough. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2988">TS</a>]
00:49:55 ◼ ► There's not there's not enough people with skills even close to Johnny I have for him too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/2995">TS</a>]
00:50:00 ◼ ► Do good work in the software ie like an harbour. I don't know what's going on back there we don't know those people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:04 ◼ ► Well I think he has trusted team that doesn't have a lot of turnover [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3004">TS</a>]
00:50:07 ◼ ► but the software is often lost Scott forestall went through what we think actually was a disagreement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3007">TS</a>]
00:50:13 ◼ ► and great Christy is now gone like I would I would be happier both those people were still there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3013">TS</a>]
00:50:19 ◼ ► and working in concert with Johnny Ah but you know what I do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3019">TS</a>]
00:50:22 ◼ ► Well you know maybe the harder stuff will be a lot less work now because that you can just look at like what H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3022">TS</a>]
00:50:27 ◼ ► and Samsung are making into just disciplines like that right. I think if the opposite doesn't work either way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3027">TS</a>]
00:50:33 ◼ ► You know the other thing that I should point out and I am not through listening to it yet but on Guy Englishes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3033">TS</a>]
00:50:40 ◼ ► and Rene Ritchie is really great pod cast debug on Episode thirty three will put a link to that in the show notes they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3040">TS</a>]
00:50:47 ◼ ► had Ken Ferrie on who did apparently was kind of the primary guy behind on a layout [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3047">TS</a>]
00:50:52 ◼ ► and I'm only about two thirds of the way through the episode but it's really really good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3052">TS</a>]
00:50:56 ◼ ► And one of the things that Ken talks about is kind of what it's like to get an idea through Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3056">TS</a>]
00:51:04 ◼ ► You know so he I don't I didn't hear the all the lay out specific part yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3064">TS</a>]
00:51:08 ◼ ► but just for the sake of argument you know I go in there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3068">TS</a>]
00:51:12 ◼ ► I come up with the idea for auto layout and apparently he basically only has to convince his immediate supervisor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3072">TS</a>]
00:51:21 ◼ ► Or at least that's what I gleaned from it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3081">TS</a>]
00:51:23 ◼ ► and I just thought that was really really interesting that it's not very bureaucratic It's not that you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3083">TS</a>]
00:51:28 ◼ ► convince three thousand people all the way up the chain and I'm sure that that's that is the case sometimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3088">TS</a>]
00:51:34 ◼ ► but generally for for some things you can just convince one man or woman [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3094">TS</a>]
00:51:40 ◼ ► and that's all it takes I just thought that was fascinating. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3100">TS</a>]
00:51:43 ◼ ► We're also sponsored this week once again by a new relatively new relatives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3103">TS</a>]
00:51:47 ◼ ► and on one web application performance management tool is an acronym for that and it's A.P.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3107">TS</a>]
00:51:54 ◼ ► Numeral it lets you see performance from the end user experience through servers down to each line of your server side. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3114">TS</a>]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Code new road assets take a minute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3120">TS</a>]
00:52:02 ◼ ► and say a big Thank You to all the dinners out there building all this great stuff that we all know and love. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3122">TS</a>]
00:52:08 ◼ ► They would like to send a shout out to developers software geeks code jockeys to the brave few who see things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3128">TS</a>]
00:52:14 ◼ ► Here's to working nights to wear an oversized concentration on Hansing headphones upon your furrowed brow as new relic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3134">TS</a>]
00:52:20 ◼ ► thanks to the entire internet thanks you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3140">TS</a>]
00:52:23 ◼ ► Nowadays if you're in any business you're in the software business software powers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3143">TS</a>]
00:52:27 ◼ ► or apps runs our databases manages our accounts and runs e-commerce sites and email programs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3147">TS</a>]
00:52:32 ◼ ► When software breaks everyone loses new relic helps improve your software performance so your users have a better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3152">TS</a>]
00:52:38 ◼ ► experience and your business is more successful. How's that for a win win. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3158">TS</a>]
00:52:43 ◼ ► New relic monitors every move your application makes across the entire stack. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3163">TS</a>]
00:52:47 ◼ ► It can show you what's happening right now in your app you can zero in on problems quickly with transaction tracing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3167">TS</a>]
00:52:55 ◼ ► Performance analytics application topology mapping and employment history markers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3175">TS</a>]
00:52:59 ◼ ► and comparisons go to new relics dot com a slash A.T.P. and You can sign up for a free thirty day trial. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3179">TS</a>]
00:53:07 ◼ ► Then you all do it deploy their agent on your server it natively supports Ruby P.H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3187">TS</a>]
00:53:12 ◼ ► Java dot net Python and even no J.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3192">TS</a>]
00:53:15 ◼ ► It will start collecting data immediately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3195">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► and you can quickly see inside your app to start finding hot spots fixing issues and optimizing performance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:23 ◼ ► Once again go to new relic dot com slash A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3203">TS</a>]
00:53:26 ◼ ► To start monitoring your performance today and fighting all your issues and fixing them all new Really dot com flash. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3206">TS</a>]
00:53:32 ◼ ► A.T.P. Thanks a lot. So one quick remaining thought on the Christie thing which I came up with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3212">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► We said Christie had been there since the beginning. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:43 ◼ ► But let's suppose hypothetically that he was pretty well lined [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3223">TS</a>]
00:53:47 ◼ ► or pretty chummy with forestall then wouldn't it make sense for him to either choose to leave or be asked to leave. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3227">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Those quiet rumblings I've heard are that that's exactly the case that he was kind of an forestalls camp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:10 ◼ ► and maybe the person who is replacing him is someone who likes to argue a little bit more. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3250">TS</a>]
00:54:16 ◼ ► If that's the case I'd consider that a wonderful thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3256">TS</a>]
00:54:19 ◼ ► I think it's very smart of people who are in a position of power to have someone around them that argues because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3259">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► forces you to really be really vehemently believe in your own opinion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:33 ◼ ► or change it if the case maybe the best example of that from the Steve Jobs history is the you know being adamant that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3273">TS</a>]
00:54:40 ◼ ► i Tunes was it wasn't it was the i Pod should be available for one night in storage and give over windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3280">TS</a>]
00:54:46 ◼ ► when you're going to help me out is not remembering that anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3286">TS</a>]
00:54:49 ◼ ► Yeah I'd consider Windows a chat room set so I'll trust them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3289">TS</a>]
00:54:52 ◼ ► but anyway whatever it was it's something that eventually came to pass and was enormously positive thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3292">TS</a>]
00:54:57 ◼ ► and Steve Jobs was dead set against it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3297">TS</a>]
00:54:59 ◼ ► and it was just all of his most trusted the tenets were constantly on him arguments they could not give it up like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3299">TS</a>]
00:55:05 ◼ ► we've got to do I don't know I'm never going to do it in any event they warm down it like fine do friggin i Tunes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3305">TS</a>]
00:55:11 ◼ ► or windows whatever you want like that sounds like an unhealthy dynamic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3311">TS</a>]
00:55:14 ◼ ► but I think that is that is actually a company I mean it's not it's not the healthiest It could be better if again it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3314">TS</a>]
00:55:22 ◼ ► was something more like the Pixar brain trust. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3322">TS</a>]
00:55:25 ◼ ► But in many ways it was similar because like the brain trust thing it's a bunch of senior people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3325">TS</a>]
00:55:32 ◼ ► You know I'll tell you what's wrong with you thing. But none of them have the power to tell you what you have to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3332">TS</a>]
00:55:37 ◼ ► Like they can make you change your movie in the case of the very latest tell you like we think this is wrong that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3337">TS</a>]
00:55:41 ◼ ► wrong maybe just Lucian's but they have no authority to make you do any particular changes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3341">TS</a>]
00:55:46 ◼ ► and in the case of Steve Jobs it was and it didn't have the authority to make him put i Tunes on Windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3346">TS</a>]
00:55:51 ◼ ► but because he respected their opinions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3351">TS</a>]
00:55:53 ◼ ► and because they were so insistent on eventually you know he went against his own better judgment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3353">TS</a>]
00:55:58 ◼ ► and said you know what am I even paying these people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3358">TS</a>]
00:56:00 ◼ ► For if not to advise me and they are so strong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3360">TS</a>]
00:56:02 ◼ ► and unanimous in their in their you know insistence of this is a good idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3362">TS</a>]
00:56:07 ◼ ► He was kind of a baby about it that find whatever stupid thing on Windows if accounts are to be believed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3367">TS</a>]
00:56:13 ◼ ► and that that might sound like him but in the end you know this is the worked. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3373">TS</a>]
00:56:17 ◼ ► Yeah and that's exactly my point and so I mean whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3377">TS</a>]
00:56:21 ◼ ► or not Christie was forced out depending on who is replacing him it could be a really wonderful thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3381">TS</a>]
00:56:27 ◼ ► So was like All right so we have a few other things that we can talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3387">TS</a>]
00:56:33 ◼ ► and something that we've had on the show notes for a while that I don't think I completely understand yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3393">TS</a>]
00:56:39 ◼ ► and I'd love to hear Jon you explain it to me is what is this P selfing all about good you know I get to explain other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3399">TS</a>]
00:56:46 ◼ ► thing that I don't know the details of but I do think I know enough. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3406">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► I do know enough I think to do explain that you know the broad strokes in the broad strokes are actually interesting. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► Sellers from the parliament is the same I think inventor of one of one of the original inventors of quick time he also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3417">TS</a>]
00:57:03 ◼ ► did the On Live for mode gaming service and is another one of his babies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3423">TS</a>]
00:57:07 ◼ ► and he has a little bit of reputation as kind of a genius crackpot sort of like Stephen Wolfram undeniably incredibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3427">TS</a>]
00:57:15 ◼ ► but also prone to like presenting his creations as the best thing since sliced bread in kind of magic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3435">TS</a>]
00:57:24 ◼ ► As I think of the original name for a cause [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3444">TS</a>]
00:57:26 ◼ ► but it's been rebranded to be so it's presented in a way that doesn't that doesn't explain how it works unless you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3446">TS</a>]
00:57:35 ◼ ► and so it seems like magic it's like you have all these problems with cell phone reception because there are so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3455">TS</a>]
00:57:41 ◼ ► people with cell phones and so many towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3461">TS</a>]
00:57:43 ◼ ► and so much interference this week signals a strong field you can have the cell towers too close to like he's basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3463">TS</a>]
00:57:47 ◼ ► describing what we all know about current So for reserve he's like one of that could all go away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3467">TS</a>]
00:57:52 ◼ ► and you wouldn't have any problem in every single cell phone user would have the full bandwidth of the entire tower. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3472">TS</a>]
00:57:57 ◼ ► And like possible are you talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3477">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► It sounds like a parental motion machine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► and you're trying to dismiss him out of hand unless you already know what it is in which case you think oh I know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:08 ◼ ► that is and then it becomes boring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3488">TS</a>]
00:58:10 ◼ ► and those are the two extremes like this sounds like magic I'm going to be like the only person on earth that's like as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3490">TS</a>]
00:58:15 ◼ ► if I have a whole cell tower to myself and then you find that really works if you haven't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3495">TS</a>]
00:58:19 ◼ ► and if you are in this field it's not anything novel or or amazing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3499">TS</a>]
00:58:23 ◼ ► or new with certain aspects of it that are that are interesting from an engineering perspective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3503">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► and you're like oh it's that OK well now now I think I'm less excited about now that was my experience as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:34 ◼ ► So here's what it is what do you see in the demonstrations were you talking about as having cell towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3514">TS</a>]
00:58:41 ◼ ► and you can't put them too close together because they make indifference to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3521">TS</a>]
00:58:43 ◼ ► and of course every single cell phone is trying to communicate with self our cell tower is interfering with the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3523">TS</a>]
00:58:48 ◼ ► cell phones that are communicating with a cell tower in as many different strategies that we use to allow multiple cell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3528">TS</a>]
00:58:54 ◼ ► phones to talk to the tower and you don't need to know the details of all of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3534">TS</a>]
00:58:57 ◼ ► but like you know like you know let us all take turns. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3537">TS</a>]
00:59:03 ◼ ► There's different ways of multiplexing our signals with frequency division where we charge up into different channels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3543">TS</a>]
00:59:09 ◼ ► on different frequencies our code division multiplexing where we send the signal that each thing can decode to figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3549">TS</a>]
00:59:14 ◼ ► out which part of the signal is relevant to it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3554">TS</a>]
00:59:17 ◼ ► But it all has to do with just a big shared space and all those techniques interferences badly screws up the signal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3557">TS</a>]
00:59:22 ◼ ► Each thing is sending out a receiving one piece Ellis trying to do is make it so that all the cell towers are aware of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3562">TS</a>]
00:59:33 ◼ ► where all the cell phones are and they're where what signal is being put out by all the phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3573">TS</a>]
00:59:40 ◼ ► and they do a whole bunch of really complicated math to figure out OK We know what we want to send everybody here we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3580">TS</a>]
00:59:46 ◼ ► going to output something such that our interference overlaps with each other in such a way that it sort of forms the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3586">TS</a>]
00:59:54 ◼ ► hotspot right in the target area where all the combination of the interference from all the signals we're putting out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3594">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► I'm up to exactly what we want to send to that phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:02 ◼ ► and then all the interference from all the sales we're putting out something that's missing in our approach to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3602">TS</a>]
01:00:06 ◼ ► other phone that's why it's like you get all you get all the bandwidth because it's a bunch of things working in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3606">TS</a>]
01:00:11 ◼ ► concert to figure out exactly what they need to send out so that the sum of all their crazy interference exactly equals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3611">TS</a>]
01:00:17 ◼ ► this the exact clean signal they want to send to that particular phone I'm massively simplifying it obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3617">TS</a>]
01:00:23 ◼ ► but this is this is sort of the upshot of how it works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3623">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► and the innovative thing they have is like well how do you do that how can you have all the cell towers figuring out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:32 ◼ ► exactly what they need to put out sort of in real time you know all the signals that are being sent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3632">TS</a>]
01:00:37 ◼ ► and received to figure out what they have to put out to make the interference overlap to hit every single little cell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3637">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► phone that sounds crazy how could you do that well that's part of the engineering breakthrough in that they claim to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:45 ◼ ► have a way to do that with like fiber optic cables or whatever running through his cell towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3645">TS</a>]
01:00:50 ◼ ► or slower links if you're willing to allow for a little more slop in the system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3650">TS</a>]
01:00:54 ◼ ► and to be able to have a computing in each one of those locations that scales linearly which is a topic on top of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3654">TS</a>]
01:01:02 ◼ ► negatives on scaling the scale linearly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3662">TS</a>]
01:01:05 ◼ ► So it's like well OK so it's easy to do for two receivers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3665">TS</a>]
01:01:07 ◼ ► but is it ten times as much before it is like how does it scale cycle we have a way if you want to handle fifty people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3667">TS</a>]
01:01:14 ◼ ► on a tower then you need one computer if you want to have one hundred people you need two computers you know two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3674">TS</a>]
01:01:20 ◼ ► Like it's scale linearly with the number of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3680">TS</a>]
01:01:23 ◼ ► and that is an interesting engineering breakthrough assuming it works as advertised. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3683">TS</a>]
01:01:28 ◼ ► and certain First of all you do have to have all the time I was talking to a significant without doubt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3688">TS</a>]
01:01:32 ◼ ► but you do need fast connections between the towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3692">TS</a>]
01:01:36 ◼ ► and if you make slower connection in Towers what you're giving up is essentially how fast the receivers can move. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3696">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► So for example if you were in a car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:46 ◼ ► and that car goes over something like seventy miles an hour by the time all the cell towers figure out how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3706">TS</a>]
01:01:51 ◼ ► constructively overlay all their crazy overlapping signals to hit where you are you've moved too far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3711">TS</a>]
01:01:56 ◼ ► and it won't work as well so there are speed limitations of this which are not you know there is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3716">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► He limitations that you moving around a cookie affects everything but affects the system more than others. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:05 ◼ ► So you know if you're in any sort of car trying to you know use your nav system whatever and this is the Most News. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3725">TS</a>]
01:02:09 ◼ ► If you're going over seventy maybe you wouldn't be able to keep up with you if you only had microwave links between the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3729">TS</a>]
01:02:14 ◼ ► towers and everything but the idea and even I think Apple's routers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3734">TS</a>]
01:02:19 ◼ ► and you know regular just walk around to the so called being forming or whatever the idea is an interesting one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3739">TS</a>]
01:02:24 ◼ ► and it's great when an idea that was you know worked in labs for years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3744">TS</a>]
01:02:28 ◼ ► and years suddenly becomes feasible in the real world do you know engineering expertise which is essentially what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3748">TS</a>]
01:02:33 ◼ ► they're trying to bring as a company to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3753">TS</a>]
01:02:36 ◼ ► and the theoretical benefits are there in that if you could get a system like this you can make a much more effective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3756">TS</a>]
01:02:41 ◼ ► use of bandwidth and you can put cell you know small cell tower type meters receivers everywhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3761">TS</a>]
01:02:48 ◼ ► and don't worry about how they overlap because it'll be just fine that would you know that would make they would make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3768">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► for the ability to support more users in a congested you know urban environment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3774">TS</a>]
01:03:00 ◼ ► and the other trick we have from engineering perspective is they didn't want to change all our phones so they found a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3780">TS</a>]
01:03:04 ◼ ► way using the existing features of like L.T.E. Four G. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3784">TS</a>]
01:03:07 ◼ ► That are in the existing protocol so such that an unmodified plain old i Phone five S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3787">TS</a>]
01:03:12 ◼ ► or Any other plain old cell phone can participate in this like they don't need to have a special chip in the phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3792">TS</a>]
01:03:17 ◼ ► or special computing in the phones or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3797">TS</a>]
01:03:19 ◼ ► and that again is another engineering type of breakthrough where yeah this was fine in theory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3799">TS</a>]
01:03:23 ◼ ► but you can just go replace all the cell phones in the world these magic ones that work like what we found a way to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3803">TS</a>]
01:03:27 ◼ ► this to work using existing protocols with existing unmodified phones with all the smarts on the other end. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3807">TS</a>]
01:03:32 ◼ ► So I think it is an interesting engineering achievement assuming it works as advertised. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3812">TS</a>]
01:03:38 ◼ ► He still faces go to market challenges in terms of getting this technology into all the cell towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3818">TS</a>]
01:03:42 ◼ ► and was going to be the first person to roll it out and how will it co-exist with other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3822">TS</a>]
01:03:46 ◼ ► but in the end it is not magic it's just science it's not particularly new science [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3826">TS</a>]
01:03:51 ◼ ► but the engineering is where the interesting parts are there was a really neat video that I watched that showed I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3831">TS</a>]
01:03:58 ◼ ► believe it was a bunch of like. Laptops or tablets or whatever that work quipped with L.T.E. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3838">TS</a>]
01:04:03 ◼ ► Radios and they'd shown probably get the details wrong but they had shown what happens when you move around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3843">TS</a>]
01:04:11 ◼ ► and they turned off the thing where it senses where you are. So basically they concentrated this beam of L.T.E. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3851">TS</a>]
01:04:21 ◼ ► and just for the purposes of the demonstration rather than allow that beam to move around with the device. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3861">TS</a>]
01:04:29 ◼ ► and you could see as they moved just a couple of inches that the throughput would just plummet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3869">TS</a>]
01:04:36 ◼ ► and then they would put the device backwards started and it would come back to like full each D.V.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3876">TS</a>]
01:04:43 ◼ ► when they had it working as it's designed which is to say you will follow the device as it moves. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3883">TS</a>]
01:04:49 ◼ ► Signal as the dudes like you know just moving these devices around in the room with a reasonable quickness not seventy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3889">TS</a>]
01:04:57 ◼ ► miles an hour but a reason and it was fascinating to watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3897">TS</a>]
01:05:00 ◼ ► and really really impressive in some ways it's like engineering at its best because what engineers do very well as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3900">TS</a>]
01:05:08 ◼ ► opposed to you know scientists like this there are you know two sides of the same color as the scientists will come up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3908">TS</a>]
01:05:13 ◼ ► with something already theories or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3913">TS</a>]
01:05:15 ◼ ► but it's the job of the engineers to be able to figure out you know what that theory was useless to us ten years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3915">TS</a>]
01:05:22 ◼ ► twenty years ago fifty years ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3922">TS</a>]
01:05:24 ◼ ► But computing has advanced so much or technology or material science [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3924">TS</a>]
01:05:27 ◼ ► or whatever has a bit so much that crazy theory that no one ever paid attention to you know that you know if I Well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3927">TS</a>]
01:05:32 ◼ ► that's not feasible obviously you can never do that starts to enter the realities ability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3932">TS</a>]
01:05:37 ◼ ► and mirrors are rewarded by getting the jump on error [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3937">TS</a>]
01:05:40 ◼ ► and say you know what I think I can do that now I think I can do that crazy beamforming thing you know across huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3940">TS</a>]
01:05:45 ◼ ► urban areas to people traveling up to seventy miles an hour with a girl who's I think I can do that now likely to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3945">TS</a>]
01:05:52 ◼ ► I mean the mentally when technology comes along [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3952">TS</a>]
01:05:53 ◼ ► and it's like well now we have you know every More realize we have the computing to do you know an algorithm that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3953">TS</a>]
01:05:58 ◼ ► wasn't feasible before compression. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3958">TS</a>]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Technique that used to be too computationally expensive but now is trivial on phones right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3960">TS</a>]
01:06:04 ◼ ► Like and this is an example of that like he seems to be out ahead of people in terms of I think I can do that now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3964">TS</a>]
01:06:10 ◼ ► and here is my proof and here's my implementation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3970">TS</a>]
01:06:14 ◼ ► or not a fly is kind of like on my bike I think I can make people have video games where the video gaming machine is in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3974">TS</a>]
01:06:19 ◼ ► a data center and there are miles and miles away. I think gaming can work like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3979">TS</a>]
01:06:24 ◼ ► It did kind of work I have on live I've watched it I've played it it's not great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3984">TS</a>]
01:06:28 ◼ ► but it's as a technology pro concept it's interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3988">TS</a>]
01:06:31 ◼ ► but there are you know as an elf The engineer is only one small part of the battle of being successful in the market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3991">TS</a>]
01:06:37 ◼ ► but as as non-magical as it might be I do like what he does because it kind of like Elon Musk he's he's figuring out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/3997">TS</a>]
01:06:48 ◼ ► what is feasible with current technology and getting there just slightly ahead of everyone else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4008">TS</a>]
01:06:52 ◼ ► and that's that's great engineering. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4012">TS</a>]
01:06:54 ◼ ► Yeah like I said it was really impressive to me whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4014">TS</a>]
01:06:58 ◼ ► or not it's just the combination of a bunch of things we've known how to do for a while it looked really cool. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4018">TS</a>]
01:07:07 ◼ ► They take things you know we've had touch screens with a capacitor does screens that you know user interfaces of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4027">TS</a>]
01:07:12 ◼ ► buttons like you know bring it all together figure out that actually we can make a phone like that now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4032">TS</a>]
01:07:16 ◼ ► and do it just a little bit ahead of everyone else. There's a big reward if you get all the parts right. Exactly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4036">TS</a>]
01:07:22 ◼ ► We're also sponsored this week by a glue software igloo is an Internet. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4042">TS</a>]
01:07:27 ◼ ► You'll actually like now most people think of internets as over the internets this is interim that's the old boring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4047">TS</a>]
01:07:35 ◼ ► The old still terrible places that the corporate overlords make you go when you just want to use Dropbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4055">TS</a>]
01:07:41 ◼ ► or weren't present something easy that helps you get your work done that actually works. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4061">TS</a>]
01:07:46 ◼ ► and familiarity from consumer software into your corporate environment by using familiar apps like shared calendars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4066">TS</a>]
01:07:51 ◼ ► Twitter like microblogging file sharing and more. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4071">TS</a>]
01:07:55 ◼ ► Every piece of content in your a lieutenant be social with comments and like buttons and. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4075">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► Each team in your company can figure their own workspaces so that's if you're users but what if you're in charge of I.T. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:06 ◼ ► Well Lou handles the security hosting a management for you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4086">TS</a>]
01:08:10 ◼ ► Igloo is sock to type two compliant and they host data securely in stock to type one enterprise solidities in Canada. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4090">TS</a>]
01:08:18 ◼ ► That's right Canada us everything is polite and C.D.R. Of cost too much on their own servers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4098">TS</a>]
01:08:23 ◼ ► It will offer two hundred fifty six bit as a cell and they are not vulnerable to heart bleed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4103">TS</a>]
01:08:28 ◼ ► They offer backup disaster recovery single tenant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4108">TS</a>]
01:08:30 ◼ ► and shared environments integration with many authentication in sync systems including Sammul services and elder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4110">TS</a>]
01:08:36 ◼ ► and more. It will even work with hip pocket client organizations. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4116">TS</a>]
01:08:41 ◼ ► You can also customize everything inside your Italy with the ability to add C.S.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4121">TS</a>]
01:08:45 ◼ ► and Javascript globally across one T.'s face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4125">TS</a>]
01:08:48 ◼ ► or even on a single page you can see all this on the Web site which is actually built on their platform. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4128">TS</a>]
01:08:54 ◼ ► Learn more in a glue software not com slash Casey over Software dot com slash K.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4134">TS</a>]
01:09:00 ◼ ► Where they made a funny winning page about why Share Point sucks and how iglu is better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4140">TS</a>]
01:09:05 ◼ ► Thanks a lot once again to a Lou for sponsoring our show I wanted to ask about scaling servers because we've had this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4145">TS</a>]
01:09:11 ◼ ► on the show in the show notes for a while. Yeah I love this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4151">TS</a>]
01:09:15 ◼ ► So on the topic list there's just a simple bullet point it just says scaling servers like you might as well had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4155">TS</a>]
01:09:25 ◼ ► and it was actually a reaction to a particular blog post that Brent Simmons put up very mention scaling and passing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4165">TS</a>]
01:09:32 ◼ ► and it's not I don't get into a big thing about it is just like every every time I see this come up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4172">TS</a>]
01:09:37 ◼ ► People are sloppy with their analogy like it's so important to keep reminding yourself like you know definition of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4177">TS</a>]
01:09:44 ◼ ► terms like what what we should be talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4184">TS</a>]
01:09:46 ◼ ► when we talk about scaling as we use it as an umbrella term to talk about everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4186">TS</a>]
01:09:49 ◼ ► and I kind of alluded to it in the piece L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4189">TS</a>]
01:09:51 ◼ ► Thing with like my only point is like the old saw about the difference in performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4191">TS</a>]
01:09:55 ◼ ► and scaling so much of the time when I see people thinking they're blogging about scale. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4195">TS</a>]
01:10:00 ◼ ► All their blogging about US performance which is fine interesting a topic of itself sending us scaling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4200">TS</a>]
01:10:05 ◼ ► and so I just you know I put it in there as a reminder myself to throw it out So in brief performance how fast you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4205">TS</a>]
01:10:11 ◼ ► make something go if you've got a computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4211">TS</a>]
01:10:13 ◼ ► and you've got a test to be done I can do a task in five minutes I need to increase my performance now I can do the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4213">TS</a>]
01:10:18 ◼ ► task in three seconds. You've increase your performance. Scaling is I've got one task to do and I've got one computer. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4218">TS</a>]
01:10:24 ◼ ► What if I give you ten million of those tests to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4224">TS</a>]
01:10:27 ◼ ► Can you do them in the same time if you just use ten million computers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4227">TS</a>]
01:10:31 ◼ ► That's scaling it doesn't matter how long it takes even takes your computer a year to solve the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4231">TS</a>]
01:10:35 ◼ ► If I give you two of those problems you say no problem or just buy another computer I can do both of them in a year. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4235">TS</a>]
01:10:40 ◼ ► OK One of the three by three computers as a linear scaling by three computers I can do all three in a year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4240">TS</a>]
01:10:46 ◼ ► but if I give you three million three million computers I can do all three million of those problems in a year it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4246">TS</a>]
01:10:51 ◼ ► about performance scaling in performance although they so often seem related are not the same concept. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4251">TS</a>]
01:10:57 ◼ ► The failure to focus on scaling when you talk about scaling and performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4257">TS</a>]
01:11:01 ◼ ► when talking about performance leads to all sorts of sadness. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4261">TS</a>]
01:11:04 ◼ ► Oh yeah I mean scaling is is not how fast your system is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4264">TS</a>]
01:11:10 ◼ ► but how easily you can make it take on more of something usually more traffic more users more data whatever the case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4270">TS</a>]
01:11:20 ◼ ► How easy is it to take on more and how many changes do you have to make to your software into it to its architecture. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4280">TS</a>]
01:11:26 ◼ ► Two to add that capacity because you know it's with almost everything it is not nearly as simple as I'll just add more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4286">TS</a>]
01:11:33 ◼ ► servers because you might have like all right well let's say you can add more web service pretty easily have to a point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4293">TS</a>]
01:11:39 ◼ ► because web servers like you know you can distribute the calls to any of them with a little bounce [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4299">TS</a>]
01:11:44 ◼ ► or as long as you don't use like weird shared sessions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4304">TS</a>]
01:11:46 ◼ ► or anything you can attribute calls to any of them there are in any call coming in gets assigned to a web server sixty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4306">TS</a>]
01:11:51 ◼ ► seven and was web server sixty seven does whatever need to do a response back. OK great. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4311">TS</a>]
01:11:56 ◼ ► However web server sixty seven probably has a. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4316">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Access a database to do something and how do you organize the databases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:04 ◼ ► and that's usually it's the data layer not the web serving application layer that's usually the hardest to scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4324">TS</a>]
01:12:12 ◼ ► because that's when you have things like globally shared storage you have things like limits on disk performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4332">TS</a>]
01:12:20 ◼ ► and on on how many how many rights can a single server even write per second if you're you know if you if you scale the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4340">TS</a>]
01:12:28 ◼ ► way all the reads and and given reads to all these like you know replicating servers How do you know that's fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4348">TS</a>]
01:12:33 ◼ ► but can they even keep up with the rights how many rights as a master do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4353">TS</a>]
01:12:36 ◼ ► and then if you split the roll up like that into really hard issues like All right well how do you cache data. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4356">TS</a>]
01:12:44 ◼ ► Can you be sure that the data that you have read off of the read sleeve is up to date. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4364">TS</a>]
01:12:49 ◼ ► Otherwise you can't really cash it because you might be clobbering something in a cache that is newer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4369">TS</a>]
01:12:54 ◼ ► or you might be caching old data when new data is available. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4374">TS</a>]
01:12:57 ◼ ► All these like really hard problems to go along with that that makes scaling such a complex interesting topic and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4377">TS</a>]
01:13:03 ◼ ► and and why why it's such a hard problem and that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4383">TS</a>]
01:13:06 ◼ ► when I see a blog post about like how to make a data structure smaller aquarium more efficient [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4386">TS</a>]
01:13:12 ◼ ► and then the word scaling is the same conversation it's like a performance you're just talking about performance like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4392">TS</a>]
01:13:17 ◼ ► you know if you talk about the Web here like sense that you know it's stateless because scale the horizontal forever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4397">TS</a>]
01:13:22 ◼ ► like nothing's scale even the web here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4402">TS</a>]
01:13:25 ◼ ► Even the web here is not like that one to once again allow you to my example if you ever get there you have reached the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4405">TS</a>]
01:13:31 ◼ ► Golden Rule you know that you will be busily in there even just getting there even on the web here it's like well bored [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4411">TS</a>]
01:13:36 ◼ ► by different data sets and geographical load balancing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4416">TS</a>]
01:13:39 ◼ ► and what about never a connection like the nothing nothing skill perfectly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4419">TS</a>]
01:13:43 ◼ ► but you're right like you know the first thing you do you run into it as a state [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4423">TS</a>]
01:13:46 ◼ ► and you get in the cap the Arum of you know consistency partition tolerance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4426">TS</a>]
01:13:50 ◼ ► and availability like this is well trod territory lots of people constrain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4430">TS</a>]
01:13:56 ◼ ► and scaling Google knows probably the most about it of any company the entire world given this guy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4436">TS</a>]
01:14:00 ◼ ► While they operate at Microsoft seems to be learning a lot about Apple not sure with like scaling a super hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4440">TS</a>]
01:14:05 ◼ ► performance performance a super hard and I mean from the outside. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4445">TS</a>]
01:14:11 ◼ ► This is all like sort of Soteris stuff but even for people who are just working on a small system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4451">TS</a>]
01:14:18 ◼ ► and like it doesn't matter you're not going to have you know going to have Facebook level users right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4458">TS</a>]
01:14:22 ◼ ► But even on a very small system ten users one hundred users one thousand two hundred thousand even then you should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4462">TS</a>]
01:14:28 ◼ ► thinking about both performance and scaling and keeping a clear head about which one you're concentrating on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4468">TS</a>]
01:14:33 ◼ ► and don't concentrate too much on scaling and not enough on performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4473">TS</a>]
01:14:36 ◼ ► or too much improvement on a scaling just keeping a clear head about what the individual tasks are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4476">TS</a>]
01:14:42 ◼ ► and you will eventually find yourself even in a small system. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4482">TS</a>]
01:14:45 ◼ ► Reading all those papers about the theory behind it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4485">TS</a>]
01:14:47 ◼ ► and making your tradeoffs about you know consistency veil building a partition tyrants like you what you have to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4487">TS</a>]
01:14:54 ◼ ► decisions about if you don't make decisions the software you choose will make the decisions for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4494">TS</a>]
01:14:57 ◼ ► and you'll be sad about it so like that's all part of learning process [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4497">TS</a>]
01:15:01 ◼ ► but it's not all I I don't want to pick on a particular blog post I love reading those Brent Bozell love watching him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4501">TS</a>]
01:15:09 ◼ ► think a lot about what he's doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4509">TS</a>]
01:15:10 ◼ ► and he's a great example of a great software developer like sort of you know showing his showing his work as he works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4510">TS</a>]
01:15:17 ◼ ► towards a product and everything like that is just that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4517">TS</a>]
01:15:20 ◼ ► I have since I've dealt with server side software my entire career I have a particular. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4520">TS</a>]
01:15:24 ◼ ► It's when I see the word scaling and that's not really talking about scaling I may be understating P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4524">TS</a>]
01:15:30 ◼ ► Dense right Casey. That's right that's right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4530">TS</a>]
01:15:34 ◼ ► and there is there is something to be said for performance optimization to a point you know it's it's very similar to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4534">TS</a>]
01:15:42 ◼ ► the premature optimization wisdom in the world except and Brent even addresses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4542">TS</a>]
01:15:45 ◼ ► and in one of his posts on an essential dot com which we should mention he even dressed like you know what you talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4545">TS</a>]
01:15:51 ◼ ► about. Server side design like for client side stuff. Premature Optimization is is considered a bad thing because. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4551">TS</a>]
01:16:00 ◼ ► We have such fast hardware we have so much memory these days on client side devices and desktops [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4560">TS</a>]
01:16:04 ◼ ► and everything we have so much we have so many resources that it's just it's just not really worth doing super Mycroft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4564">TS</a>]
01:16:13 ◼ ► imitations everywhere. However on servers things are different on servers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4573">TS</a>]
01:16:19 ◼ ► You are paying for what you use basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4579">TS</a>]
01:16:22 ◼ ► and if you're apt get popular at all even for a for a minimal amount of that of users relatively speaking to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4582">TS</a>]
01:16:31 ◼ ► something like Facebook like you know if you get one hundred thousand users using a web service that's going to that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4591">TS</a>]
01:16:38 ◼ ► a substantial need for the hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4598">TS</a>]
01:16:41 ◼ ► and depending on what your service is doing that actually could need some serious resources [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4601">TS</a>]
01:16:48 ◼ ► and so that you know you could be you could be talking the difference between hundreds of up a hundred dollars a month [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4608">TS</a>]
01:16:55 ◼ ► or thousands of dollars a month worth of hardware or even more than that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4615">TS</a>]
01:16:58 ◼ ► And and so you know if you really make or break your whole economics it can it can make you busier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4618">TS</a>]
01:17:05 ◼ ► or not is very like one of the best things to happen first for servers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4625">TS</a>]
01:17:09 ◼ ► and scaling in the last decade has been S S D S because for a long time for a lot of lamp type applications one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4629">TS</a>]
01:17:17 ◼ ► biggest limitations was the database the disk speed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4637">TS</a>]
01:17:21 ◼ ► and like like a time where I was able to replace I think it was about nine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4641">TS</a>]
01:17:25 ◼ ► or twelve read slave servers with one with S S D's and you know nine or twelve servers that had fifteen K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4645">TS</a>]
01:17:35 ◼ ► S.A.'s disks in RAID ten being replaced with one as a DB a server and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4655">TS</a>]
01:17:39 ◼ ► and those were those were old intellects twenty five says these are you know they've come a long way since then. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4659">TS</a>]
01:17:45 ◼ ► That unit it now modernise is easier even faster than those and you know it's like when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4665">TS</a>]
01:17:52 ◼ ► when you can make a big you know order of magnitude type jump if you can go from from ten database servers to one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4672">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► It's kind of difference actually matters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:02 ◼ ► and is worth doing that that is something where performance has a direct impact direct measurable feel of all impact on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4682">TS</a>]
01:18:10 ◼ ► scaling optimization for performance to a point actually is useful because in practice in practice most people most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4690">TS</a>]
01:18:20 ◼ ► most people who make use of services make absence of it that most people are not going to get his biggest Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4700">TS</a>]
01:18:25 ◼ ► and Google. Most people are not even to get as big as you know small things that we've all heard of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4705">TS</a>]
01:18:30 ◼ ► You know it's most people are lucky to get a hundred thousand users to their web service you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4710">TS</a>]
01:18:34 ◼ ► and so by making decisions that favor high performance you can often keep you know that can often be the difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4714">TS</a>]
01:18:45 ◼ ► between being able to run everything off of the cheap easy to easy to Mr V.I.P.'s [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4725">TS</a>]
01:18:50 ◼ ► or a fully managed cloud service at a reasonable price and running a whole bunch of dedicated servers or running [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4730">TS</a>]
01:18:57 ◼ ► or paying tons of money for a cloud service or one of these things like that could make that big of a difference. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4737">TS</a>]
01:19:02 ◼ ► And so it is you know on the scale inside this community from between you know needing just one fast database server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4742">TS</a>]
01:19:09 ◼ ► and needing a multi server setup or being able to fit all on one server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4749">TS</a>]
01:19:13 ◼ ► or having to share the database which is really complicated and adds a lot of maintenance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4753">TS</a>]
01:19:18 ◼ ► or having to use a different type of tool entirely like a sender which is a world of hurt. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4758">TS</a>]
01:19:23 ◼ ► It's just so incredibly not worth using. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4763">TS</a>]
01:19:27 ◼ ► and so you know performance does matter to the point where having a high performance system has a very good chance of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4767">TS</a>]
01:19:36 ◼ ► keeping you from ever needing a difficult to scale system successful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4776">TS</a>]
01:19:42 ◼ ► Well the actual business that people don't understand the business people who don't understand technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4782">TS</a>]
01:19:47 ◼ ► and don't want to will apply both of these pressures to you because they will apply pressure for you to increase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4787">TS</a>]
01:19:52 ◼ ► performance because they don't want to pay a lot of money for servers right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4792">TS</a>]
01:19:57 ◼ ► But they will also apply the pressure you for scaling because they will say. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4797">TS</a>]
01:20:00 ◼ ► My business plan says we're going to grow fifty percent year over year for the next five years. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4800">TS</a>]
01:20:04 ◼ ► So you need to be able to say OK we have five customers now in in five years we're going to have five million customers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4804">TS</a>]
01:20:12 ◼ ► so I you know whatever multiple That is I don't want to pay if we if you have a greater than linear scaling is likely a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4812">TS</a>]
01:20:18 ◼ ► one customer cost us ten bucks but two customers cost one hundred dollars. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4818">TS</a>]
01:20:22 ◼ ► You've got a scaling problem immediately because they want the business to grow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4822">TS</a>]
01:20:25 ◼ ► but they want to grow less than linear they want they want to double their number of customers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4825">TS</a>]
01:20:29 ◼ ► but not double the harbor cos anywhere you're telling them as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4829">TS</a>]
01:20:33 ◼ ► That's not how scaling works if we double our customers I need to weigh more than double our hardware cost that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4833">TS</a>]
01:20:37 ◼ ► how much more how close are you to perfect when you're scaling and so they they want both. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4837">TS</a>]
01:20:42 ◼ ► They want to you know it's too expensive every time we get another client we need to buy X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4842">TS</a>]
01:20:46 ◼ ► Amount of hardware and cost so much money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4846">TS</a>]
01:20:48 ◼ ► and we're making only certain amount of money from each individual client we had. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4848">TS</a>]
01:20:51 ◼ ► We can't afford to add that much harbor so increase your performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4851">TS</a>]
01:20:53 ◼ ► but year over year over year is like look we're going to quadruple our customer base can you quadruple our customer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4853">TS</a>]
01:20:58 ◼ ► base you know like you know we can we go one database server were already buying the biggest machine we deposit that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4858">TS</a>]
01:21:03 ◼ ► money can buy for a database server or we need a strategy for scaling in and then you end up charging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4863">TS</a>]
01:21:08 ◼ ► and you know what about people in the parts of the country then you have all of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4868">TS</a>]
01:21:11 ◼ ► If they're in charge how do these people interact with each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4871">TS</a>]
01:21:13 ◼ ► and it's like it's in some ways it's easier for software where it doesn't matter like Facebook where you're like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4873">TS</a>]
01:21:19 ◼ ► message shows up here a little bit sooner than it shows up there it's not it's not a banking system or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4879">TS</a>]
01:21:24 ◼ ► but not everyone's that lucky sometimes it really has to be you know that's where you're going to be kept there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4884">TS</a>]
01:21:28 ◼ ► and again we have to pick your trade offs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4888">TS</a>]
01:21:32 ◼ ► And it's difficult and even no matter how bounded your problem is even it just doesn't scale everything down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4892">TS</a>]
01:21:38 ◼ ► If you're like oh I want to stick to you know V P S's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4898">TS</a>]
01:21:41 ◼ ► or something really cheap I don't want to buy dedicate like you're playing in the small leagues [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4901">TS</a>]
01:21:45 ◼ ► but it still matters for your company when you when you're going from ten customers to ten thousand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4905">TS</a>]
01:21:49 ◼ ► It's the same exact thing playing out is just a smaller scale versus companies that start off from day one buying mass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4909">TS</a>]
01:21:55 ◼ ► a dedicated hardware and the only difference in the high end game is that the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4915">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► People are more likely to get into the situation where they are buying the most expensive computer equipment that money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:04 ◼ ► can buy from anyone in the entire planet. When they get to the end of their scaling rope and the like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4924">TS</a>]
01:22:09 ◼ ► Well I like we've increased performance as much as we can go we have no matter how much money we wave at somebody we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4929">TS</a>]
01:22:15 ◼ ► cannot get a bigger single machine to do task X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4935">TS</a>]
01:22:18 ◼ ► Like now if you wait a bit longer think about scaling you have a serious problem because you've you've hit the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4938">TS</a>]
01:22:24 ◼ ► performance that and like if your optimizer software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4944">TS</a>]
01:22:26 ◼ ► but like yeah it's the same it's the same story it's just you know it's the fractal of itself it just just depends on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4946">TS</a>]
01:22:32 ◼ ► how many commas there are for the decimal point and the invoices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4952">TS</a>]
01:22:38 ◼ ► and that's this is one of the reasons why I really prefer to do things at a relatively low level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4958">TS</a>]
01:22:45 ◼ ► and to do things that are fairly standard because you know even if you don't need scaling you know in quotes even if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4965">TS</a>]
01:22:51 ◼ ► you don't think you need that today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4971">TS</a>]
01:22:54 ◼ ► Like knowing how to scale something or knowing knowing the steps that you take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4974">TS</a>]
01:22:59 ◼ ► and the hurdles you will face is useful when writing anything even before it needs to be scaled. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4979">TS</a>]
01:23:05 ◼ ► So for instance I set a number to unnerve Cajuns I never write database joint's ever joins our joint basically put a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4985">TS</a>]
01:23:15 ◼ ► lot of work on the database server which granted it is very optimized to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/4995">TS</a>]
01:23:20 ◼ ► However I prefer to split up the joins into two calls like one to fetch the list of ids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5000">TS</a>]
01:23:25 ◼ ► and the second to fetch from the target table you know which ones you get and stuff like that and design the schema [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5005">TS</a>]
01:23:33 ◼ ► And that's for two major reasons one is to make that to give the database a little bit less work both through injuries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5013">TS</a>]
01:23:40 ◼ ► and one give it a bit less work because database C.P.U. Power database resources are expensive and hard to scale. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5020">TS</a>]
01:23:49 ◼ ► Maybe you can cash that first where you know maybe you can cash a list of ideas you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5029">TS</a>]
01:23:54 ◼ ► and then you know only fetch the records or vice versa only fetch the ID [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5034">TS</a>]
01:23:57 ◼ ► and then fetch the records from cache things like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5037">TS</a>]
01:24:00 ◼ ► In the third is that then that also gives me the ability later on if the service gets really big to say you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5040">TS</a>]
01:24:06 ◼ ► the users table now has to have its own database. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5046">TS</a>]
01:24:10 ◼ ► and it's such a drain on performance that we should split this up into its own database cluster entirely so users is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5050">TS</a>]
01:24:18 ◼ ► now on a different avi's then you can't do a join because I live on the same server any more so even like even with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5058">TS</a>]
01:24:24 ◼ ► overcast I'm not running a joint I'm doing the same way I've always done it because it's not that much harder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5064">TS</a>]
01:24:30 ◼ ► and it's you know just in case in the future that'll be fine i'll be set up for that upgrade to go sit you know the so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5070">TS</a>]
01:24:38 ◼ ► many other things like very careful use of indexing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5078">TS</a>]
01:24:41 ◼ ► One of the most useful books I ever read on scaling was high performance My S.Q.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5081">TS</a>]
01:24:48 ◼ ► and I read I read the addition before the current one and I liked it a lot the current one got a lot longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5088">TS</a>]
01:24:54 ◼ ► and the reviews weren't as good so I'm not sure if the current one is great I didn't actually read the whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5094">TS</a>]
01:24:58 ◼ ► but the previous one was awesome. So maybe give it a shot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5098">TS</a>]
01:25:02 ◼ ► But you know I think it's important it's important to make decisions like if you're writing. Suppose you're writing C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5102">TS</a>]
01:25:09 ◼ ► Code for an app and you're calling something like str when in in the loop to iterate through a string [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5109">TS</a>]
01:25:16 ◼ ► and calling Sterling the Durlan string if you know about performance at all you're in a look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5116">TS</a>]
01:25:22 ◼ ► and say wait a minute you know that's being involved in every single call you you get this mentality that makes you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5122">TS</a>]
01:25:29 ◼ ► make small decisions like that better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5129">TS</a>]
01:25:32 ◼ ► And in the course of a whole project that adds up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5132">TS</a>]
01:25:35 ◼ ► and the end even though any one of those calls probably won't matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5135">TS</a>]
01:25:39 ◼ ► when you make every decision with a certain mindset in a certain sensibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5139">TS</a>]
01:25:42 ◼ ► and a certain wisdom about what will happen in the future or what the cost of this will might be or might add up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5142">TS</a>]
01:25:49 ◼ ► when you make all those small decisions the right way. The sum of all of that is different and does matter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5149">TS</a>]
01:25:56 ◼ ► Same thing applies to scaling when you make a bunch of small decisions to say. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5156">TS</a>]
01:26:00 ◼ ► No You know what I can put a little more work on that on the database here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5160">TS</a>]
01:26:02 ◼ ► or you know this doesn't need to be that optimized even you know the index isn't quite right to do this index only or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5162">TS</a>]
01:26:09 ◼ ► or you know this is going to scan a bunch of rows to get these results [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5169">TS</a>]
01:26:12 ◼ ► but that will be a right you know it's how often do you going to do that once you get into the mindset of thinking OK [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5172">TS</a>]
01:26:20 ◼ ► what's going to happen when I have to do this thousands of times a second. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5180">TS</a>]
01:26:26 ◼ ► but if you think about that from the beginning you can make better small decisions along the way that will add up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5186">TS</a>]
01:26:32 ◼ ► and that will make scaling easier for you. Can we go back a step. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5192">TS</a>]
01:26:37 ◼ ► You're saying that you would rather make round trips to the database than do something that the database is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5197">TS</a>]
01:26:43 ◼ ► specifically designed to do that I mean I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want to use a database right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5203">TS</a>]
01:26:51 ◼ ► I know you don't like this is the newfangled key value storage things or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5211">TS</a>]
01:26:54 ◼ ► but if you're not going to be joined and I'm not saying that's the right or wrong decision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5214">TS</a>]
01:26:58 ◼ ► but if that's the route you're going there are probably places you could store your data that would give you better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5218">TS</a>]
01:27:06 ◼ ► performance for the same kind of usage pattern I imagine the reason you would like them is because there are newer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5226">TS</a>]
01:27:13 ◼ ► and you know you're used to the features of being able to you know back up by people into easy replication [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5233">TS</a>]
01:27:18 ◼ ► and those are all important features and the reason is stick with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5238">TS</a>]
01:27:20 ◼ ► but you're kind of using my single in a sort of a degenerate state like you're using it as a really bad performing poor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5240">TS</a>]
01:27:26 ◼ ► man's key value storage with some basic filtering doing your own joints client side we're just trying to get you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5246">TS</a>]
01:27:32 ◼ ► the other benefits of your familiarity easy backup easy replication reliability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5252">TS</a>]
01:27:37 ◼ ► and you know that's why you're avoiding you know you that's why you're not another mom going to be you know nightmare [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5257">TS</a>]
01:27:42 ◼ ► Yeah I think you know obviously I know as as you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5262">TS</a>]
01:27:45 ◼ ► and as the chat have said I'm going to lot of e-mail about my my no joint stance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5265">TS</a>]
01:27:50 ◼ ► but the fact is first of all you said my school is WAY slower than some of the system and that's probably not the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5270">TS</a>]
01:27:58 ◼ ► Certainly it is not always the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5278">TS</a>]
01:28:01 ◼ ► The reason I use my skew well even though I'm not using some of the you know relational database type features like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5281">TS</a>]
01:28:09 ◼ ► You know I don't use stored procedures either out on the thing where you know that's just asking for trouble I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5289">TS</a>]
01:28:12 ◼ ► use triggers things like that you know the reason I do this is because my S.Q.L. Is just frickin awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5292">TS</a>]
01:28:21 ◼ ► There's no other way to say I've I've heard so much crap about my fuel from people who don't use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5301">TS</a>]
01:28:26 ◼ ► and are prejudiced against it whatever and I know you know I don't use Postgresql. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5306">TS</a>]
01:28:30 ◼ ► I don't use Oracle have I don't have an experience though so I can't tell you how it compares to those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5310">TS</a>]
01:28:33 ◼ ► but I can tell you most of the criticism I have heard about my few well is wrong or at best outdated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5313">TS</a>]
01:28:40 ◼ ► and only applied to my eye Salmon not the more recent in a D.B. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5320">TS</a>]
01:28:43 ◼ ► Storage engine which at this point is not even recent And so if you use my S.Q.L. Within a D.B. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5323">TS</a>]
01:28:50 ◼ ► As your storage and for all tables it's amazing. It is awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5330">TS</a>]
01:28:55 ◼ ► It's and I say I said this in a post recently and I you know the gravity of this I don't want to overstate this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5335">TS</a>]
01:29:01 ◼ ► but it's hard to overstate this in all time the tumbler Instapaper all that time. Now overcast I've used my S.Q.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5341">TS</a>]
01:29:11 ◼ ► and you know a tumbler it was under extreme stress first for the entire time I was working there it was costly under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5351">TS</a>]
01:29:17 ◼ ► extreme stress I have never seen my S.Q.L. Crash once. I have never seen my school corrupt data once. That's amazing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5357">TS</a>]
01:29:26 ◼ ► Look at any issue you've never seen a corrupted data I have never seen a corrupted I've never seen a crash. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5366">TS</a>]
01:29:32 ◼ ► That's my skills actual functionality could be argued to be a corruption of the document going to have you look it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5372">TS</a>]
01:29:40 ◼ ► in the doc says that's exactly what it's going to do is not it's not wrong it's not a bug [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5380">TS</a>]
01:29:44 ◼ ► but like that's that's a philosophical difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5384">TS</a>]
01:29:46 ◼ ► and then you like a real database people have with my sequels like the documented behavior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5386">TS</a>]
01:29:51 ◼ ► when it performs a documented behavior database people do you think get angry at it and I'm kind of one of them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5391">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► We're talking about However if you look like Are you sure you're talking about you know modern versions of those. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:05 ◼ ► I'm like no no like we're weird coalitions of data types [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5405">TS</a>]
01:30:09 ◼ ► and cases where columns that are marked as not know can actually have no and weird things with empty strings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5409">TS</a>]
01:30:14 ◼ ► and you like it they're all Dr Nagura is my if you're got your pages and just read through them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5414">TS</a>]
01:30:18 ◼ ► and you know in terms of performance though like now that I'm saying you should switch to a different thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5418">TS</a>]
01:30:23 ◼ ► but like because most of the things that have massively better performance have much much less of the other things you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5423">TS</a>]
01:30:29 ◼ ► describe like stability and reliability. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5429">TS</a>]
01:30:31 ◼ ► But performance wise if your data model is kind of simple and never going to have joints [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5431">TS</a>]
01:30:38 ◼ ► and if you care about getting more government that you may or may not there are lots of other databases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5438">TS</a>]
01:30:42 ◼ ► and that do go away faster than my sequel. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5442">TS</a>]
01:30:46 ◼ ► Especially with energy because like it's the extra overhead of that of that storage engine you know most of the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5446">TS</a>]
01:30:54 ◼ ► hotness is basically people do almost everything in memory like it's you know it's not it's not like memcache [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5454">TS</a>]
01:31:02 ◼ ► or there is like a persistent memcache thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5462">TS</a>]
01:31:03 ◼ ► but a lot of them are like look we can involve disk in the operation of our thing here and you can imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5463">TS</a>]
01:31:09 ◼ ► when you do almost everything in memory you go way faster than my sequel trying to diss of with the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5469">TS</a>]
01:31:15 ◼ ► Oh sure will and you know and there's ways you can you take advantage of that with caching already you can do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5475">TS</a>]
01:31:19 ◼ ► and probably my skill does already catch a lot of memory but you know certain And of course the O. S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5479">TS</a>]
01:31:24 ◼ ► Will catch a lot of the disk blocks memories of it but you know certainly you can use my S.Q.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5484">TS</a>]
01:31:29 ◼ ► With predecessor memcache or any of the any a cache of some that are out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5489">TS</a>]
01:31:32 ◼ ► and I mean most people do it's fine you know that's like people there's this big it's a cool thing to use a different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5492">TS</a>]
01:31:42 ◼ ► storage engine these days but the fact is a storage engine is oh boy here we go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5502">TS</a>]
01:31:46 ◼ ► A storage unit is like a file system is you know you don't want to change that very often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5506">TS</a>]
01:31:51 ◼ ► and you want to be extremely conservative and extremely focused on data integrity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5511">TS</a>]
01:31:56 ◼ ► and my if you will is so incredibly like Battle test. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5516">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► Good it is so solid and yeah I get that it might not have always been that way back in the olden days of mice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:05 ◼ ► and all the crap but those days are well into the past now and modernized. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5525">TS</a>]
01:32:11 ◼ ► My school has been rock solid I would say for at least seven or eight years and that's why Google use it very heavily. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5531">TS</a>]
01:32:18 ◼ ► but they at least did I know you lots of major major sites use my sexual Twitter use it for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5538">TS</a>]
01:32:25 ◼ ► and probably still do. There's a reason why it's really really good and it's people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5545">TS</a>]
01:32:32 ◼ ► There's a great blog post a few years back when a Friend Feed existed T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5552">TS</a>]
01:32:38 ◼ ► Some idea and it was a blog post called how Friend Feed uses my S.Q.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5558">TS</a>]
01:32:41 ◼ ► To store schema less data and how to find it but in the show notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5561">TS</a>]
01:32:45 ◼ ► but there's a lot of good stuff in here Friend Feed was a weird project that was run by incredibly good engineers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5565">TS</a>]
01:32:52 ◼ ► and it's basically got a lot of the stuff like My S.Q.L. Even if you don't use some of the database the features of it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5572">TS</a>]
01:33:03 ◼ ► My fuel is still an amazingly fast solid low needs low maintenance storage engine that has tons of tools a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5583">TS</a>]
01:33:12 ◼ ► ecosystem tons optimization potential there are so many reasons to use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5592">TS</a>]
01:33:18 ◼ ► and if you look at one of the newer systems it's you know and you know things like Mongo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5598">TS</a>]
01:33:24 ◼ ► or you know all these like new no S.Q.L. Type systems. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5604">TS</a>]
01:33:27 ◼ ► If you look a lot of those you know they have some benefits but if you don't necessarily need those benefits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5607">TS</a>]
01:33:32 ◼ ► and what you really want is fear database to be like a file system to be basically bulletproof. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5612">TS</a>]
01:33:38 ◼ ► My skills a great choice and I feel like I get ignored because it's old. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5618">TS</a>]
01:33:42 ◼ ► This comparison is kind of harsh so I don't mean it the way it's going to sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5622">TS</a>]
01:33:46 ◼ ► but it's it's as close as we can align in the forest along a few things here again in the world of databases what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5626">TS</a>]
01:33:53 ◼ ► the P.H.P. Of databases it's kind of My S.Q.L. Is way better than P.H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5633">TS</a>]
01:33:57 ◼ ► Don't get me wrong but if you have to map onto it like that's what ends. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5637">TS</a>]
01:34:00 ◼ ► Then like what's the Python of databases that's probably post-arrest you know like that that's that's more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5640">TS</a>]
01:34:05 ◼ ► or less how things line up and like what's what's a C.C. Plus plus of databases of like Oracle you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5645">TS</a>]
01:34:11 ◼ ► And what's the Ruby it's like you know the B. or Something like. But to align things I say is very clearly P.H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5651">TS</a>]
01:34:18 ◼ ► Databases and that sounds terrible I know because it is not as bad as being a tree do not get me wrong P.H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5658">TS</a>]
01:34:24 ◼ ► but it has many of the same characteristics in like that it's everywhere it's a known quantity it's reliable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5664">TS</a>]
01:34:30 ◼ ► and has idiosyncrasies but once you know that you think these are they don't bother you that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5670">TS</a>]
01:34:34 ◼ ► and the thing about using it for schema less like that's why people do that because they like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5674">TS</a>]
01:34:38 ◼ ► or have a tool that I know is reliable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5678">TS</a>]
01:34:41 ◼ ► and I'm going to use it like you said in a degenerate kind of way like I'm actually going to use it for Scheme in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5681">TS</a>]
01:34:46 ◼ ► state I know it's not a scheme Elice database system I know there actually are schemas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5686">TS</a>]
01:34:49 ◼ ► but I'm going to find some table with columns or keen value and version number and some other crap in and it'll work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5689">TS</a>]
01:34:54 ◼ ► and it's like you were taking advantage of a system that works in a way that you're comfortable with that has all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5694">TS</a>]
01:35:00 ◼ ► features you need and is reliable and your building something else on top of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5700">TS</a>]
01:35:05 ◼ ► and all I was saying with the other database type things is like if you care more about performance there is these days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5705">TS</a>]
01:35:10 ◼ ► much more performance to be had if you're willing to trade it for less reliability and more unknowns you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5710">TS</a>]
01:35:15 ◼ ► and I'm hoping that that sort of younger section of the of the data storage world matures in coalesces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5715">TS</a>]
01:35:21 ◼ ► and we get some sort of equivalent of My S.Q.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5721">TS</a>]
01:35:24 ◼ ► or Even best case on a quilt in a post press where it's like a tried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5724">TS</a>]
01:35:28 ◼ ► and true known quantity within that realm right now we don't have now right now kind of the Cambrian explosion over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5728">TS</a>]
01:35:32 ◼ ► there I'm not sure how it's going to shake out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5732">TS</a>]
01:35:34 ◼ ► but it's still it's still worth keeping your eye on because if you know twenty years from now you're still using I seek [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5734">TS</a>]
01:35:41 ◼ ► no joins there will be either a great failure of the no sequel world to come up with a useful product for the long term [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5741">TS</a>]
01:35:48 ◼ ► or a great failure due to keep an eye on what's going on. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5748">TS</a>]
01:35:51 ◼ ► Possibly but I have two questions firstly what is the role of database and strong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5751">TS</a>]
01:35:57 ◼ ► and I was trying to think about I don't know. Maybe maybe an S.Q.L. but Neither one of you remember that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5757">TS</a>]
01:36:04 ◼ ► There is really is no problem there is I don't know what it is it's probably one of the one of the newfangled databases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5764">TS</a>]
01:36:11 ◼ ► and that I was not familiar enough with the thing that has kind of like there's nothing that has the same combination [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5771">TS</a>]
01:36:16 ◼ ► of like a precursor to all of the better known ones now with lots of weird quirks like I don't I don't know that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5776">TS</a>]
01:36:23 ◼ ► but it's it's not bicycle definitely isn't it just some academic paper that swears that it's academically flawed as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5783">TS</a>]
01:36:30 ◼ ► that. That's part of the prospects you know thing in their database that can be written but not read. P.H.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5790">TS</a>]
01:36:37 ◼ ► Look just like Perl you can to make a call. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5797">TS</a>]
01:36:40 ◼ ► Let's I got out there or can we still back up to you just spent Marco five or ten minutes explaining how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5800">TS</a>]
01:36:46 ◼ ► and how my sequel is amazing and reliable and does what it's supposed to do really well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5806">TS</a>]
01:36:51 ◼ ► but you don't trust it to do a fricken join like that I can't get past that it is an issue of trust. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5811">TS</a>]
01:36:57 ◼ ► It's an issue of leaving yourself open for future scaling options. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5817">TS</a>]
01:37:01 ◼ ► It's about being able to say you know what my database server is going to at some point be split off from my web server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5821">TS</a>]
01:37:07 ◼ ► once a month I have my service has more than five users and this is going to have its own server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5827">TS</a>]
01:37:12 ◼ ► and it's going to be harder and more expensive to increase database hardware resources than to increase application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5832">TS</a>]
01:37:20 ◼ ► And so you might as well have the application and web stuff do more of the work and make the database easier job. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5840">TS</a>]
01:37:30 ◼ ► So things like you know reduce the number of queries to put the number of queries that go to it that you know make them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5850">TS</a>]
01:37:36 ◼ ► access fewer rows make them access fewer tables make you have to do a C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5856">TS</a>]
01:37:40 ◼ ► Work but it's more about Io you know let the database do only what the database is required to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5860">TS</a>]
01:37:47 ◼ ► and let your other servers take on as much work as they can. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5867">TS</a>]
01:37:51 ◼ ► OK but you'd rather ping away at it and do a good zillion round trips to avoid these joints like I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5871">TS</a>]
01:38:00 ◼ ► I've been through a tumbler I've been bantering Instapaper so I'm doing that thing which I told you I don't want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5880">TS</a>]
01:38:08 ◼ ► in the beginning of the episode where I'm saying that seems weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5888">TS</a>]
01:38:10 ◼ ► but genuine question Have you ever done anything to imperiously prove to yourself like have you used a new relic to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5890">TS</a>]
01:38:17 ◼ ► prove to yourself that this is legitimately the right way to go you can do it on paper that you've given yourself a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5897">TS</a>]
01:38:26 ◼ ► but I'm sure the answer that is yes because any server that offer quickly realizes the part that has all the state is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5906">TS</a>]
01:38:31 ◼ ► the hardest part to scale I mean he basically just laid it out like you can just do it on paper. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5911">TS</a>]
01:38:35 ◼ ► There's a certain amount of work that needs to be done. One part of your system you can scale really really easily. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5915">TS</a>]
01:38:39 ◼ ► One part is really hard to scale you want the hard to scale part to do like the same whatever operation does the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5919">TS</a>]
01:38:45 ◼ ► efficiently primary key lookups maybe have a do that same operation over and over and over again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5925">TS</a>]
01:38:51 ◼ ► and have everything else you can do put on the easier to scale parts like you know there's lots of ways you can do the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5931">TS</a>]
01:38:56 ◼ ► math to figure out you know how it works but like just I think you even if you just think about that logically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5936">TS</a>]
01:39:04 ◼ ► and that's not even to get you a linear scale we're just trying to keep our heads above water with a step a strategy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5944">TS</a>]
01:39:09 ◼ ► you always want to push the the work out to the system that is to scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5949">TS</a>]
01:39:14 ◼ ► and so I mean it's kind of the Google approach [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5954">TS</a>]
01:39:16 ◼ ► or like a big table where they went to the extreme where like their their data store was like really annoying to deal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5956">TS</a>]
01:39:22 ◼ ► with and unreliable and applications had to retry and figure out how to resolve conflicts and it was just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5962">TS</a>]
01:39:28 ◼ ► and made it incredibly hard to replicate and stuff like that was the price of scaling early on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5968">TS</a>]
01:39:32 ◼ ► and they've made strides in that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5972">TS</a>]
01:39:33 ◼ ► but basically you're trying to move the work to the systems that are easy to scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5973">TS</a>]
01:39:37 ◼ ► and web servers are ways you know to scale and not not performance scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5977">TS</a>]
01:39:41 ◼ ► and again your computing performance in that you know you have that goes round trips you're going to cross it that work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5981">TS</a>]
01:39:46 ◼ ► in making multiple queries like that's performance we're talking about scaling it's fair point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5986">TS</a>]
01:39:52 ◼ ► and I did that literally forever it's worth you know we're putting a lot of your putting a lot of weight on these round [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/5992">TS</a>]
01:40:00 ◼ ► Run trips to a database server or to a meme kasher or that's you know in the same rack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6000">TS</a>]
01:40:06 ◼ ► or at least of the same data center as they are coming from point you know we're talking about a lot of time here that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6006">TS</a>]
01:40:12 ◼ ► I don't think you know all of this depends on the kind of application you're writing how much data you actually crating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6012">TS</a>]
01:40:18 ◼ ► like to build the page you know or to build the A.P.I. Response that you're talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6018">TS</a>]
01:40:22 ◼ ► How many database called do you actually have to do is it seven or eight. Is it fifty like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6022">TS</a>]
01:40:28 ◼ ► Is it more that like there's what you're doing matters a lot and you know it's infinite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6028">TS</a>]
01:40:34 ◼ ► or was fairly easy to scale because it was never as big as tumbler [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6034">TS</a>]
01:40:38 ◼ ► and I was using I was using Tumblr style techniques at Instapaper So of course it was way overkill. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6038">TS</a>]
01:40:45 ◼ ► Which is great which is why which is why I was able to afford to run it and not go crazy and not go broke. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6045">TS</a>]
01:40:52 ◼ ► when we face things like to give you one example how do you display the list of posts on somebodies dashboard so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6052">TS</a>]
01:41:01 ◼ ► have to figure out who they follow and then other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6061">TS</a>]
01:41:04 ◼ ► when they follow to find enough posts from those people to make twenty of them an order them properly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6064">TS</a>]
01:41:10 ◼ ► There are so many different ways to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6070">TS</a>]
01:41:12 ◼ ► and there are there in the naive ways where you do if you joined then you have any do a big sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6072">TS</a>]
01:41:17 ◼ ► and it's all fine you know the naive way does not really skill very well just because you start dealing with hundreds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6077">TS</a>]
01:41:24 ◼ ► of gigs of data pretty quickly and that and the database having to scan you know millions of rows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6084">TS</a>]
01:41:30 ◼ ► and that starts performing very badly so a lot of times what you think is the most like good naive approach. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6090">TS</a>]
01:41:39 ◼ ► Actually in practice it does not is not useful it is not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6099">TS</a>]
01:41:43 ◼ ► It doesn't scale well enough you know becomes too expensive or becomes completely impractical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6103">TS</a>]
01:41:51 ◼ ► So you start having to do weird little hacks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6111">TS</a>]
01:41:54 ◼ ► and so you know one of the hacks we get a tumbler early on was actually something that I learned from. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6114">TS</a>]
01:44:00 ◼ ► or doing some setting up some big bunch of setup stuff to do a bunch of you know simply operations on it like it gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6240">TS</a>]
01:44:07 ◼ ► and get uglier looks like you're doing more is like the Seems like it's more work you know in the same way like my head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6247">TS</a>]
01:44:12 ◼ ► is my screen they've got me all day and I wanted one big self consistent blog but this nice join query [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6252">TS</a>]
01:44:17 ◼ ► and replacing it with these multiple queries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6257">TS</a>]
01:44:18 ◼ ► when I just dated together myself like that it's longer How could that be better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6258">TS</a>]
01:44:23 ◼ ► I mean I guess is not a fully accurate in the US case like you're actually increasing performance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6263">TS</a>]
01:44:28 ◼ ► And here like Marco said you're you're protecting yourself for future scaling although in some cases even in the deep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6268">TS</a>]
01:44:34 ◼ ► dark world of databases human is stored procedures or if your query planner is not your friend. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6274">TS</a>]
01:44:41 ◼ ► Speaking from experience that sometimes if you want to get a massive amount of data it's better to write a stored [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6281">TS</a>]
01:44:48 ◼ ► and essentially be the query planner yourself do it all in a database you know all right on top of the thing that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6288">TS</a>]
01:44:53 ◼ ► look. When I give you this join you can do something dumb. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6293">TS</a>]
01:44:55 ◼ ► So let me run this great this great this query join the master results together put them in a tent table index with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6295">TS</a>]
01:45:01 ◼ ► Joining is that temp table with the second mate like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6301">TS</a>]
01:45:03 ◼ ► and like how could that possibly be faster than just running the query you want is like well the creeper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6303">TS</a>]
01:45:07 ◼ ► and I made some very unfortunate life choices when we send in a matter of fact. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6307">TS</a>]
01:45:13 ◼ ► Doing this crazy stored procedure like I mean once you're creating temp table index I mean like there's no way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6313">TS</a>]
01:45:17 ◼ ► could be fast in the rain a query like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6317">TS</a>]
01:45:19 ◼ ► Well you know let me show you like databases are funny things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6319">TS</a>]
01:45:22 ◼ ► and the more you can treat them the way Mark was treating treating them the less headaches you'll have about them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6322">TS</a>]
01:45:28 ◼ ► and I think the more you should think about whether you're sharing the using a database [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6328">TS</a>]
01:45:32 ◼ ► but that's you know that's a competition. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6332">TS</a>]
01:45:34 ◼ ► But anyway the idea that the sort of client side code of the consuming code gets longer and uglier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6334">TS</a>]
01:45:42 ◼ ► That is not outside the realm of normal programmer experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6342">TS</a>]
01:45:46 ◼ ► when just increasing the performance of your regular you know compiled code that makes sense. Yeah and it's a balance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6346">TS</a>]
01:45:52 ◼ ► You know it's a balance you have to strike. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6352">TS</a>]
01:45:54 ◼ ► Obviously you know if you're having severe problems and severe scaling challenges you're going to have to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6354">TS</a>]
01:46:00 ◼ ► No more in that direction of more complex code. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6360">TS</a>]
01:46:03 ◼ ► That and I'll be more bugs you'll have things like weird caching bugs and you know things like replication delay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6363">TS</a>]
01:46:11 ◼ ► I didn't even know what your book structure using and that's all hard that's all complicated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6371">TS</a>]
01:46:17 ◼ ► and certainly you shouldn't do that sooner than you have to. In most cases. But again it's a balance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6377">TS</a>]
01:46:24 ◼ ► Just like you shouldn't waste all your memory as much as possible when you're writing a C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6384">TS</a>]
01:46:28 ◼ ► Program already program for that matter. You know it's either find a balance and with servers and scaling. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6388">TS</a>]
01:46:35 ◼ ► I would lean a little more just because the nature of you know using someone else's vast resources on their computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6395">TS</a>]
01:46:41 ◼ ► versus expensive shared server resources. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6401">TS</a>]
01:46:44 ◼ ► I would lean a little bit more towards a little more complicated but way more scalable. I make sense then. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6404">TS</a>]
01:46:52 ◼ ► Far be it for me to argue with you Mr tumbler. Thanks. They have functions this week. P.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6412">TS</a>]
01:46:59 ◼ ► Pen for i Pad new relic and a glue and we will see you next week. Now on this show is over. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6419">TS</a>]
01:47:13 ◼ ► It was accidental accidental was accidental and you learn today learn from as I said that can live tomorrow. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6433">TS</a>]
01:48:08 ◼ ► I'd like to tell you about why I hate my car now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6488">TS</a>]
01:48:10 ◼ ► Wow Is it because I didn't get there early Finally it is actually relatively dirty dirty at the moment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6490">TS</a>]
01:48:18 ◼ ► Aaron and I decided this past Saturday to go to the local drive in movie theater [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6498">TS</a>]
01:48:24 ◼ ► and if you have a local drive in movie theater I cannot suggest enough that assuming you don't have small children [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6504">TS</a>]
01:48:30 ◼ ► which I guess that definitely limits mark on probably limits drawn in this particular context. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6510">TS</a>]
01:48:36 ◼ ► If you don't have small kids you can escape the kids go to a drive in movie it's really cool. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6516">TS</a>]
01:48:41 ◼ ► Instead of the way the Goochland drive in theater works which is between Charlotte on Richmond is you poll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6521">TS</a>]
01:48:48 ◼ ► when you pay something like eight dollars a person in your car and you get a double feature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6528">TS</a>]
01:48:53 ◼ ► and you get the audio for the Double Feature by tuning to a F.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6533">TS</a>]
01:48:58 ◼ ► Station that the that the theater broadcasts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6538">TS</a>]
01:49:01 ◼ ► and it's a really cool experience especially in a really pretty night like this past Saturday was planned. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6541">TS</a>]
01:49:07 ◼ ► We have been several times in the past although not for a year or two and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6547">TS</a>]
01:49:10 ◼ ► when we've gone in the past I've taken my car which at the time was my Subaru. What color was that that was white. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6550">TS</a>]
01:49:18 ◼ ► We'll take an Aaron's car which was and is still a Mazda six which is a great silver and we've never had an issue. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6558">TS</a>]
01:49:26 ◼ ► Well this past Saturday I had just washed and waxed in leather conditioned and vacuumed Erin's car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6566">TS</a>]
01:49:33 ◼ ► and so I thought well my car is dirty because yes my car does get dirty It just takes longer than forty nano seconds. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6573">TS</a>]
01:49:40 ◼ ► Unlike Marco's car. So we decided to take the B.M.W. The B.M.W. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6580">TS</a>]
01:49:44 ◼ ► Has a pushbutton starter and it has an accessory mode and so I figured self there would be no issue here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6584">TS</a>]
01:49:53 ◼ ► What we'll do is we will go to the drive in theater I will put the car in accessory mode by turning it off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6593">TS</a>]
01:50:00 ◼ ► Thing the push button once and we will listen to the movie on the stereo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6600">TS</a>]
01:50:04 ◼ ► and it will be wonderful I will turn off the i Drive display I had to figure out how to do that because I completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6604">TS</a>]
01:50:09 ◼ ► forgot and I will turn off the i Drive display and everything should be good and right in the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6609">TS</a>]
01:50:15 ◼ ► So that's what we did. And after ten minutes I heard the B.M.W. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6615">TS</a>]
01:50:19 ◼ ► Chime that you might remember from neutral and it was telling me that my battery was dying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6619">TS</a>]
01:50:25 ◼ ► What after ten minutes of having the radio on does the car have two batteries or the smartest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6625">TS</a>]
01:50:30 ◼ ► or something Marcos car does does it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6630">TS</a>]
01:50:34 ◼ ► Now that I know of are those cars like ten batteries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6634">TS</a>]
01:50:36 ◼ ► and I thought it only had one you couldn't you couldn't find the one battery that one guy was partially filled with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6636">TS</a>]
01:50:43 ◼ ► that I don't they're always on the passenger side in the trunk. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6643">TS</a>]
01:50:46 ◼ ► Now if we went through this anyway I thought his car had two batteries and I thought I thought I was a common B.M.W. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6646">TS</a>]
01:50:50 ◼ ► Thing but what do I know. For all I know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6650">TS</a>]
01:50:54 ◼ ► But anyway now it could be that I that the battery in my car's original I believe it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6654">TS</a>]
01:51:00 ◼ ► and it was purchased originally and I think December twenty ten. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6660">TS</a>]
01:51:04 ◼ ► So now we're getting to the point that maybe this is all a battery issue that I'm misconstruing to be a core issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6664">TS</a>]
01:51:09 ◼ ► but what I can tell you is that the radio at least once turned itself off because it felt like it was tired of being on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6669">TS</a>]
01:51:20 ◼ ► Not deliberately and I'm like in a keyed car where you physically put the key into accessory mode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6680">TS</a>]
01:51:26 ◼ ► and a push button car it's just being told where you put yourself an accessory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6686">TS</a>]
01:51:31 ◼ ► and I guess we'll hope that you don't turn yourself off and it turned itself off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6691">TS</a>]
01:51:35 ◼ ► and then I turned it back on in like I said after like another ten minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6695">TS</a>]
01:51:38 ◼ ► or something like that it started digging away about how the battery was dying so we ended up watching only the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6698">TS</a>]
01:51:42 ◼ ► of the Double Feature by lowering the windows which by the way used a whole lot of juice because you are moving a motor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6702">TS</a>]
01:51:48 ◼ ► is a heck of a lot harder than moo than to having an F.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6708">TS</a>]
01:51:52 ◼ ► Radio on but I did that we lowered the windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6712">TS</a>]
01:51:54 ◼ ► and we listened through everyone else's because my damn car wouldn't stay running in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6714">TS</a>]
01:52:00 ◼ ► I was afraid I wouldn't be able to crank it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6720">TS</a>]
01:52:01 ◼ ► and the other really interesting thing is even though they have whittled jumpstarting boxes at the theater I was so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6721">TS</a>]
01:52:11 ◼ ► and the jump starting boxes would take so long to trickle charge it that I wouldn't even be able to push start the car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6731">TS</a>]
01:52:16 ◼ ► because it wouldn't be able to engage the push button ignition into run mode to get the things I could for can push [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6736">TS</a>]
01:52:22 ◼ ► start it so it sort of ruins our entire movie going experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6742">TS</a>]
01:52:26 ◼ ► and granted we're talking about a sum total of sixteen dollars but if you really really really annoying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6746">TS</a>]
01:52:30 ◼ ► So now if we take my car to the movie theater again if for no other reason than the auto disable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6750">TS</a>]
01:52:36 ◼ ► or you have to take a frickin stereo for like a boom box with us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6756">TS</a>]
01:52:39 ◼ ► and keep it quiet so we can listen to the stupid movie. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6759">TS</a>]
01:52:43 ◼ ► You know you're already got her to marry you because they were not pressing your date on this night. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6763">TS</a>]
01:52:50 ◼ ► OK Two things One the fact that you can solve this problem by you know like a twenty dollar bill in box makes it a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6770">TS</a>]
01:53:00 ◼ ► Do you think anybody who designed this whole like you know electronic pushbutton start in accessory mode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6780">TS</a>]
01:53:08 ◼ ► Do you think any of those people involved in those decisions have ever been to a drive in movie theater. Certainly not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6788">TS</a>]
01:53:18 ◼ ► You know some of the reason i Pods that have interest in them like the old i Pod Nano see how do those high end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6798">TS</a>]
01:53:23 ◼ ► but they have a fountain I you know we could do that out in advance what are actual hitech really ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6803">TS</a>]
01:53:29 ◼ ► And also you should get a new battery carcass ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6809">TS</a>]
01:53:32 ◼ ► and yes batteries do go bad sometimes suddenly after many years. So you do it replace them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6812">TS</a>]
01:53:37 ◼ ► and actually the more I think the more I think that may be the issue in terms of the warning about there's actually there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6817">TS</a>]
01:53:43 ◼ ► some the pops up in the I drive it's increased battery discharge because gets very upset that the battery got as low as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6823">TS</a>]
01:53:51 ◼ ► and so the next time I take the car in which will probably be for the N fifty five recall that everyone just real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6831">TS</a>]
01:53:56 ◼ ► or that B.M.W. Just announced I will certainly ask them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6836">TS</a>]
01:54:00 ◼ ► Either replace it or double triple check that it is healthy as they claim it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6840">TS</a>]
01:54:05 ◼ ► But man what a stupid problem to have I mean maybe this is the biggest first world problem ever it probably is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6845">TS</a>]
01:54:12 ◼ ► but what a frustrating silly problem have because an errant car which has a key like most normal cars. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6852">TS</a>]
01:54:18 ◼ ► None of this would have been an issue. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6858">TS</a>]
01:54:19 ◼ ► And I also wonder if part of the problem was because the i Drive is a whole frickin computer. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6859">TS</a>]
01:54:25 ◼ ► I wonder if the whole damn computer was turned on with a little twelve or fifteen gig harddrive spinning and so on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6865">TS</a>]
01:54:34 ◼ ► Even though the display was off in other words there's not like a short circuit if you will just for the F.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6874">TS</a>]
01:54:39 ◼ ► Radio to keep that on a no freakin nav [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6879">TS</a>]
01:54:42 ◼ ► and everything was powered on just like it was in the radio do you think you could have brought the soundtrack to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQEorpw/6882">TS</a>]