00:00:00 ◼ ► Well live stream right now there are ones freaking out about what up Kris Allen found out when I live here [TS]
00:00:16 ◼ ► but yeah we do have some follow up so John Mitchell to tell us about how people do or do not play games. [TS]
00:00:22 ◼ ► Yeah last week I mentioned the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was [TS]
00:00:32 ◼ ► but I looked it up so you know it's on our to find this information so here are the stats this is in regards to both of [TS]
00:00:40 ◼ ► and me saying that's ridiculous because most people who play games are even older than your adult. Wait hold on. [TS]
00:00:45 ◼ ► Neither of us said we grew out of games that that's going to get some feedback which already has which is not accurate. [TS]
00:00:54 ◼ ► I don't remember the exact quote but it was something like you just felt like you were out of it [TS]
00:01:00 ◼ ► Obviously the miscommunication and you can feel free to clarify because I keep saying I agree with K.C. [TS]
00:01:04 ◼ ► and Marco I also grew out of games like we're seeing those responses again that doesn't mean that's what you said I [TS]
00:01:09 ◼ ► mean what we both said was was that we didn't see games that we didn't see games as like a juvenile thing that you [TS]
00:01:18 ◼ ► would grow out of but rather we play games for a long time and then we you know in recent years [TS]
00:01:24 ◼ ► or weren't you know after we left college or whatever we just didn't choose to spend our time playing games [TS]
00:01:29 ◼ ► or didn't have the time to plug into anymore so it's not necessarily a growing out of it because that implies that it's [TS]
00:01:35 ◼ ► not like a juvenile thing it's it's more that we just chose not to spend our time doing that anymore. [TS]
00:01:45 ◼ ► and with with less judgment in the reason nationally one of you said I don't know I guess I just grew out of it I'm a [TS]
00:01:52 ◼ ► bit of a joke and yes later you did say that these markers are that you didn't think they were juvenile or anything [TS]
00:02:00 ◼ ► Here is the information I was trying to get across is that the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was. [TS]
00:02:05 ◼ ► The average age of game players according to the Entertainment Software Association which is trade association attracts [TS]
00:02:19 ◼ ► The average age of the US population is thirty seven point two So yes the average age of the people in the United [TS]
00:02:27 ◼ ► but I think that makes sense considering video games were introduced partially into the lives of many people who are [TS]
00:02:32 ◼ ► alive today so you don't have a sample you know everyone alive wasn't born when video games are introduced the. [TS]
00:02:41 ◼ ► and out of the most frequent game purchases the ratios are exactly even fifty fifty male female they say fifty nine [TS]
00:02:56 ◼ ► or younger are seventeen percent so twice as many women twice as many adult women play games as juvenile boys do [TS]
00:03:04 ◼ ► Homes have given out so and there's an average of two game console in each house that has any. [TS]
00:03:10 ◼ ► So like I said most game players are more or less our age. I'm older than thirty one. [TS]
00:03:21 ◼ ► and I think it makes sense because our people your age mark on my age are basically like video games were invented more [TS]
00:03:27 ◼ ► or less when we were young by the time we were old enough to play them. They were popular. We played them. We grew up. [TS]
00:03:35 ◼ ► Whereas people who were you know thirty years old before the Atari twenty six hundred introduce are much less likely I [TS]
00:03:41 ◼ ► think to have gotten into it so we are sort of the first generation of people to have grown up with games in a make [TS]
00:03:45 ◼ ► sense that we continue to play them whereas the people who are sort of ahead of us may have never gotten into it at all [TS]
00:03:51 ◼ ► and I think I made all these points and show people talking about growing out of games and stuff [TS]
00:03:56 ◼ ► and tweeting about it and so on and saying well I do it I don't do it as much now as are you. [TS]
00:04:06 ◼ ► or you don't read Little Golden Books anymore you don't watch a Hanna Barbera cartoons they were like there are many [TS]
00:04:10 ◼ ► things you did as a child you grow out of but a Video games are a medium and they're fairly diverse [TS]
00:04:16 ◼ ► and so even though you of course you don't have the time to play games that used to be you know time to do anything [TS]
00:04:21 ◼ ► enough time to just pick any any sort of leisure time activity you do for him or time that when you're a kid. [TS]
00:04:27 ◼ ► But as you get older you will like different games just like you like different movies [TS]
00:04:34 ◼ ► and that I think is natural I think a lot of the people who say well I grew out of games you know all I do now is [TS]
00:04:40 ◼ ► and then they insert like the three games that they play but I barely have time for that. [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► Well yes of course you barely have time for that if you're still playing games like that [TS]
00:04:46 ◼ ► and you didn't really grow out of games just grew out of the games that you played as a child. [TS]
00:04:50 ◼ ► It's true that some people never go out of the game they played as a child maybe they're plates of murders a child they [TS]
00:04:58 ◼ ► Same thing with books I mean how many adults out there really young adult books as like you know [TS]
00:05:05 ◼ ► or a lot of these things even like the hunger games I like that a lot of these books are technically young adult books [TS]
00:05:10 ◼ ► that many adults enjoy them today not to grow out of that should they have grown out of books [TS]
00:05:14 ◼ ► and they have grown out of those specific books I don't think that's an important distinction [TS]
00:05:17 ◼ ► but the idea that games are something that most people played when they were a kid [TS]
00:05:23 ◼ ► and don't play anymore I think is not borne out by the statistics at least in the United States. [TS]
00:05:28 ◼ ► Do people count as gamers if they just have like Angry Birds on their phones versus like a console game or a P.C. [TS]
00:05:36 ◼ ► Game like is there a distinction should there be a distinction and maybe the answer is no. [TS]
00:05:41 ◼ ► But should there be a distinction between like people who have a couple of casual games on their phone versus people [TS]
00:05:51 ◼ ► or fifty dollar game before I don't think they're making those kind of distinctions I think they consider all games [TS]
00:06:01 ◼ ► when you insert some I was game that you obsessed we played every moment of spare time like yeah you play games. [TS]
00:06:07 ◼ ► They do add information on console that you would consider the like that's not casual right I don't know if that's [TS]
00:06:13 ◼ ► and the thing is a fifty one percent of homes have a game console in them somewhere in those homes as playing those [TS]
00:06:22 ◼ ► but the only only Google Play game console are the seventeen percent of gamers who are male [TS]
00:06:41 ◼ ► but I don't I don't think there's a useful distinction between it was not a real game as like I am that's not a real [TS]
00:06:46 ◼ ► book that's just a I don't know mystery novel romance novel do those not count as real books [TS]
00:06:56 ◼ ► Fair enough I actually do have a question for you does Tina get involved in any of the video gaming around your house. [TS]
00:07:03 ◼ ► She plays games on her phone a lot and I think that's where she plays a majority of her games [TS]
00:07:07 ◼ ► but at various times she has been very into as an adult very very into both console games and computer games. [TS]
00:07:19 ◼ ► but so many certain I was games that have the ability to get their hooks into people have gotten their hooks into her [TS]
00:07:26 ◼ ► and so she is very susceptible to that and I don't approve of most of the games that she plays [TS]
00:07:36 ◼ ► Last I heard is really and Minecraft is that still the case. You know it's Minecraft it destroyed his life and ours. [TS]
00:07:45 ◼ ► Here we had a very diverse gaming education up until the age of you know I guess nine sometime in his ninth year of [TS]
00:07:53 ◼ ► life Minecraft came and destroyed everything else having to do with life. He is obsessed with Minecraft. [TS]
00:08:04 ◼ ► He's totally obsessed and neither your son or daughter got into the way you very much. [TS]
00:08:09 ◼ ► Well I mean that's when his friends come over he plays the way you would his friends giving us [TS]
00:08:14 ◼ ► and you know Minecraft is not as much of a social game. So he does still play that and I assume then the next. [TS]
00:08:23 ◼ ► but I'm assuming the next game that we can all play together comes out hell play with me like been exiled a game [TS]
00:08:27 ◼ ► or a body clock I can't remember the name anymore because the last guardian of that ever comes out he'll play that with [TS]
00:08:34 ◼ ► me but he's not clamoring to play those games we have all the game console hooked up [TS]
00:08:41 ◼ ► But yeah like it's like it's natural for kids is age to get obsessed with things like this [TS]
00:08:48 ◼ ► and everything you do have a certain point you get really into one game like yeah you like lots of games [TS]
00:08:56 ◼ ► and this is happening with my grand my daughter I keep trying to get her to play games many many times on many [TS]
00:09:01 ◼ ► different console than on the computer should play a little bit of kind of casual games and I was [TS]
00:09:06 ◼ ► but she's just not into it and I want to really push it but I keep I keep putting them for an error [TS]
00:09:10 ◼ ► and I actually had a play Monument Valley in that I think was about her speed someplace. She just turned seven. [TS]
00:09:19 ◼ ► and have not even opened it like now ever since I was six I believe added the new badge on apps so that you could tell [TS]
00:09:27 ◼ ► if you have an app you've never launched before I've really been shamed by those badges on my phone because it's all [TS]
00:09:34 ◼ ► games and there's like there's probably right now my phone probably had like seven [TS]
00:09:38 ◼ ► or eight games that I bought in the last six months that I haven't even launched yet [TS]
00:09:44 ◼ ► but I want to be a gamer in theory but I never decide to spend the time doing that. [TS]
00:09:49 ◼ ► And Monument Valley is actually a great example of an application that takes advantage of retina. [TS]
00:09:56 ◼ ► If they go to the matter for games who cares after those a low rez three doing scaled up. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► But this minor value has graphics that really benefit from from the retina resolution because they're just such a [TS]
00:10:12 ◼ ► Game or stuff flying all over the place it's just you know it's very precise and it looks great [TS]
00:10:24 ◼ ► but it's way too easy for anyone who's actually you know experienced gamer and plays games a lot [TS]
00:10:31 ◼ ► and as a little bit short I really care about like there's like I'm buying it for the length of it was short [TS]
00:10:35 ◼ ► and so I feel like I just should have a little bit more there in terms of the the overall expect maybe if it was harder [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► but I recommend it for lots of people who you know who find the games that I enjoy too challenging so I think that's [TS]
00:10:50 ◼ ► why I had my daughter play is like well you'll be able to play this you'll be able to to do well [TS]
00:10:56 ◼ ► I think you'd be bored by Margot but you still just want to just look at the graphics because like I said it is. [TS]
00:11:01 ◼ ► It's the rare game that I can even imagine on a non retina screen being half as nice looking. [TS]
00:11:14 ◼ ► So now a little concern that I won't be able to handle you well if I think I need to try it I haven't bought it yet I [TS]
00:11:22 ◼ ► keep forgetting about it any time I'm sitting in front of my phone or i Pad just goofing off [TS]
00:11:26 ◼ ► and so I need to get it although I may I don't know like maybe my things are skewed as I have seen tweets from people [TS]
00:11:34 ◼ ► but having difficulty I can't tell if they're joking so maybe my idea of what's difficult [TS]
00:11:39 ◼ ► when you should just play it like just play through two levels will take you five minutes. [TS]
00:11:47 ◼ ► It's it is very linear there's not many places that you can go wrong and the same could be said of journey [TS]
00:11:54 ◼ ► but like it's different you know. Anyway try to do homework for you to try to first. [TS]
00:12:01 ◼ ► and I not admit it will not that of the first level to get thirty seconds to tell you about two minutes. [TS]
00:12:14 ◼ ► and maybe this is just me I don't know and John I'm sure going to have a good explanation for this. [TS]
00:12:24 ◼ ► and maybe just coincidence because it overlapped my age progression in my work progression. [TS]
00:12:29 ◼ ► But one of the things I think got me out of gaming is so many of the types of games that I enjoyed. [TS]
00:12:35 ◼ ► I fell out of favor and you know we would get almost none of them made anymore so for example I love to T. [TS]
00:12:47 ◼ ► But almost nobody makes two platforms anymore and incorrect. Well hold on hold on. And I did put it also want to X. [TS]
00:12:57 ◼ ► And so you know for a while and maybe maybe now the indie scene is getting as back fortunately [TS]
00:13:07 ◼ ► Systems came out the Play Station the N sixty four the Saturn it became like two the platform is basically one extinct [TS]
00:13:26 ◼ ► Games through my through almost my entire teenage hood and that's a word and. And then R.T.S. [TS]
00:13:33 ◼ ► This kind of stuff being made very well after maybe two thousand three thousand four ish like supreme commander was it [TS]
00:13:41 ◼ ► was like a big one it was awesome but nobody bought it and then they kind of went by the wayside as fantasy [TS]
00:13:52 ◼ ► And and now like Iowa and I also I also love turn based tragic games but those are very few and far between. [TS]
00:14:02 ◼ ► and now with I.O.U.'s like some of the best casual games is you know are they used to be great [TS]
00:14:09 ◼ ► and I want to get in for like five bucks and they were awesome and now they've all been ruined with freemium [TS]
00:14:15 ◼ ► and so I wonder like you know is this just me am I am I just kind of missing the new stuff because I stop looking [TS]
00:14:24 ◼ ► or Is this like is this a legitimate reason why I've been kind of kicked out of gaming for a while. [TS]
00:14:31 ◼ ► I don't know but there's two things there one there are John or has that become more [TS]
00:14:37 ◼ ► and less popular time to think of it in terms of movies like murder mystery movies where the whole plot of the movie A [TS]
00:14:43 ◼ ► summer is murdered you had to figure out who it is you don't see a lot of them anymore. [TS]
00:14:46 ◼ ► Used to see some of them but like that that genre has become less popular it does happen [TS]
00:14:51 ◼ ► and it comes in cycles you know what's popular now may not be what's popular fifty years from now [TS]
00:14:56 ◼ ► and goes around circles on that front by the way there isn't a setting correct for the two to games that right now [TS]
00:15:01 ◼ ► there's a massive Renaissance into the platform research on a particular like because I'm not into treaty platforms [TS]
00:15:08 ◼ ► Intend to bring out a brand new team Marielle games that I enjoy way less than the three D. [TS]
00:15:15 ◼ ► and there's just a constant stream of them in those are not in the things those are like you know they're their flagship [TS]
00:15:31 ◼ ► The type of real time strategy I'm talking about like I symmetric sprite based you know two D. [TS]
00:15:46 ◼ ► All right I don't know what that into your real time strategy games are but yes they eventually went through anyway. [TS]
00:15:52 ◼ ► They became less popular a lot of the reason they became less popular is because computers became more able to do the [TS]
00:16:00 ◼ ► So once first person shooters start to take over the entire universe and you could do any John [TS]
00:16:04 ◼ ► or in first person perspective so there was first person everything real time strategy games became less popular. [TS]
00:16:11 ◼ ► They're still out there I mean they're still Starcraft they're the things that they've kind of you know that same type [TS]
00:16:20 ◼ ► but a similar perspective in that you're looking down on I well it's like a little board and clicking on people [TS]
00:16:30 ◼ ► and a particular genre in a pretty particular implementation of that genre because people like oh I like real time [TS]
00:16:37 ◼ ► Only like the ones that like what I was I think it was a myth on a Paschal about how much I liked him so different now [TS]
00:16:43 ◼ ► Games if you're into those specifics you may have to wait for another one of those things to come around [TS]
00:16:53 ◼ ► and you shouldn't really be married to the genre like if you just like watching Murder Mysteries It's like what it what [TS]
00:17:05 ◼ ► and I could get it out of a different kind of thriller or am I just looking for a puzzle that I have to solve [TS]
00:17:11 ◼ ► and I'm on movies with a stupid twist I mean like what you were getting out of those games are things you enjoy systemizing [TS]
00:17:17 ◼ ► things micro-managing things you know do you enjoy like working the tech trees there's a lot of games you can play now [TS]
00:17:23 ◼ ► perhaps like a role playing game with a big crafting trian like character development you may be able to get the same [TS]
00:17:29 ◼ ► experiences out of different types of games or maybe that you just really like real time strategy [TS]
00:17:37 ◼ ► and he says the same thing in every other medium you know what kind of books are popular now what kind of movies are [TS]
00:17:42 ◼ ► kind of T.V. Shows I mean look at T.V. Program a lot of you are totally into for me like half an hour sitcoms. [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► Now it's like everything has to be this gritty one hour drama like to make a show about Sleepy Hollow [TS]
00:18:05 ◼ ► And whereas like the old sitcoms aren't they used to be everywhere now they're very rare [TS]
00:18:14 ◼ ► but I guess that gaming is not as broad as books movies or T.V. Is not yet anyway but it's getting close. [TS]
00:18:20 ◼ ► But there's probably something out there that you would get the same type of enjoyment out of [TS]
00:18:24 ◼ ► and who knows like maybe really go they don't make murder mystery movies anymore also [TS]
00:18:27 ◼ ► and you start going to see like you know goofy comedies you may find out. I never watch T.V. [TS]
00:18:33 ◼ ► but I really enjoy them so there's a lot out there you know the funny thing for me is to take this aside just a smidge [TS]
00:18:40 ◼ ► is that I find that I get really into certain games but only for a very small window of time [TS]
00:18:52 ◼ ► or it might have that I played Metal Gear Solid through the whole way through I still love the Zelda games. [TS]
00:18:58 ◼ ► Well I played a green of time and I don't think I ever had whatever it was for the week. [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► But I'll find these games that I just are IM obsessed with some looking at my i Phone [TS]
00:19:14 ◼ ► When the incident came out I loved that letterpress loved that tiny wings ramp champ by the icon factory which is a [TS]
00:19:26 ◼ ► when I came out recently saw all these games I just kind of madly in love with them and I'll play them to death. [TS]
00:19:36 ◼ ► So I haven't played threes in like a month and I was playing it non-stop for two or three weeks [TS]
00:19:41 ◼ ► and maybe this is my personality but I know it's just the way I've approached seemingly. [TS]
00:19:48 ◼ ► So any time you want to move six months I was that's a I've been hoping that that happened forever in fact it is bad [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► And I think I heard Marco say that you're the same way like I get these obsessions [TS]
00:20:11 ◼ ► and all the other stuff the type of game that I gravitate to are two kinds one is the kind I can to spend for a couple [TS]
00:20:16 ◼ ► of minutes of fun like whatever else is asynchronous turn based games like what aggressor or to friends [TS]
00:20:21 ◼ ► and three's even a single player you know it's like yeah whatever just some quick fun [TS]
00:20:30 ◼ ► or than the new popular thing of one hour dramas that have a season long arc that that ends [TS]
00:20:38 ◼ ► and that I think is a good model because people like I don't want to invest in the show that could go on some X. [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► Number of seasons I might not have a satisfying ending or whatever like where I met your mother or how to measure [TS]
00:20:51 ◼ ► but if people don't have a lot of time let's make it a one hour thing a one season arc that you will consume as a thing [TS]
00:21:01 ◼ ► and so the video games that are the non casual video games that I play are ones that are going to give me an experience [TS]
00:21:10 ◼ ► and I'm going to play through it I mean not a side of their story based games whose journey is not really a story based [TS]
00:21:14 ◼ ► game that's two hours a game play in an out like that is the perfect you know it's cheap I can get a little download [TS]
00:21:21 ◼ ► amazingly enjoyable who may love two hours done and even something like The Last Of Us I think. [TS]
00:21:25 ◼ ► I don't memory I was bored I may be sixteen or eleven or twenty and I remember what the stat was [TS]
00:21:31 ◼ ► but it's a single player there's a multiplayer aspect that I don't care about single player game with a story I play it [TS]
00:21:39 ◼ ► It's not like I feel guilty like I never go back to yeah I finished it I played the game like there is a it is a unit [TS]
00:21:48 ◼ ► but actually a similar length to watching protective For example we are sponsored this week by our friends at fracture [TS]
00:22:02 ◼ ► or desk into the box they purchased are just twelve dollars for five by five inch print. [TS]
00:22:15 ◼ ► but my desk that are like roughly I don't know seventeen by twelve something like that [TS]
00:22:20 ◼ ► and then I have these app icon fractures up on the wall in my office for all the major apps that I've worked on [TS]
00:22:32 ◼ ► and it's nice it's like like you don't need a frame. In fact I don't think you even could frame them. [TS]
00:22:37 ◼ ► Well you could try but you don't need a frame it's just like the picture itself is printed on glass [TS]
00:22:46 ◼ ► or getting framed this is really a massive improvement in massive cost savings it looks nice looks modern [TS]
00:22:53 ◼ ► and the print quality is fantastic so well let me actually let me interrupt you I was at your house recently [TS]
00:23:05 ◼ ► Some of my Instagram pictures but I can't for you can pick which one for one which is a personal problem [TS]
00:23:13 ◼ ► I expected them to look good and they are even great and they worked better than great. [TS]
00:23:20 ◼ ► Yeah I am very happy with them as I keep even though like some of these I've ordered you know outside of coupon code [TS]
00:23:29 ◼ ► So fracture every fractures handmade and checked for quality by their small team in Gainesville Florida. [TS]
00:23:35 ◼ ► See there isn't a whole lot of great stuff comes out of Florida but there's a definite of those things. [TS]
00:23:40 ◼ ► And Marilyn Of course this is the it's the thinnest lightest and most elegant way to display your favorite photo. [TS]
00:23:53 ◼ ► Once again this is fracture go to fracture Me dot com and use Q one code. A.T.P. To get. Ninety percent off.. [TS]
00:24:01 ◼ ► Really fantastic stuff. Love their prince. Once again fracture Me dot com A.T.P. Thank you very much. [TS]
00:24:07 ◼ ► So we should take notes that we have finally the three of us figured out a design that we felt was worthy of printing a [TS]
00:24:16 ◼ ► T. Shirt mostly because we wanted to get it out for W D C Like all the cool kids do and we have honey and a tie. [TS]
00:24:38 ◼ ► Unlike that we had today they have a little over a week so we'll talk about this one more time [TS]
00:24:45 ◼ ► Near one thousand dollars they have basically a stylized version of our show art on the front [TS]
00:24:53 ◼ ► or you want to leave it as a small surprise that's up to you Marco. I think you should check it out. [TS]
00:24:58 ◼ ► I think you should go to the family or other thing is T. Spring dot com slash accidental. [TS]
00:25:05 ◼ ► However we made a little shortcut in case you don't know how to spell T. Spring if you go to A.T.P. [TS]
00:25:21 ◼ ► and after those hundreds of comes out in the eight days so hurry up and buy the shirt. [TS]
00:25:31 ◼ ► and so these will definitely be printed and made they will make it in time for the U.S. For W.D.C. Probably. [TS]
00:25:41 ◼ ► We've heard reports of some of them coming right before some of them right after so we can really guarantee [TS]
00:25:45 ◼ ► internationally but in the U.S. They should be there in time to be ready See and. And yes so check it out. T. [TS]
00:25:54 ◼ ► Spring dot com slash accidental or A.T.P. That F.M. Slash shirt and keep in mind that. Since we are so. [TS]
00:26:12 ◼ ► or can't are going to see it all anyway don't worry so much about whether you're going to get in time for this year's [TS]
00:26:18 ◼ ► day see if you order now you'll have it for next year and next year. Share it if there is one. [TS]
00:26:30 ◼ ► but please do keep that in mind because tons of people keep asking me if they want to order a hypothetical shirts [TS]
00:26:36 ◼ ► and I did have a girl here at the ready and I'm not sure I'm doing them again any time soon if ever [TS]
00:26:42 ◼ ► and those people should've ordered when they were available herself I don't do this. [TS]
00:26:45 ◼ ► Haven't you order something they're available for sale. You know I also wonder for those who are international. [TS]
00:26:53 ◼ ► but I wonder if you could arrange with your hotel hey would you accept a package for me. And so on and so forth. [TS]
00:26:58 ◼ ► So you might even be able to get it delivered to your hotel. I know that is a possibility. [TS]
00:27:06 ◼ ► I did that one year to get a shirt delivered to convert to a hotel conference. But look into it anyway. [TS]
00:27:14 ◼ ► Spring is kind of like Kickstarter where they have like you know the buying period for a limited time [TS]
00:27:19 ◼ ► and then they do the whole run at once. They print them all and that's it. You can order them after that. [TS]
00:27:24 ◼ ► So it is very unlikely I think that we'll get our act together and make a new design that we like in the next year [TS]
00:27:30 ◼ ► or so. So definitely if you want if you're anytime between now and next May you could probably buy this one. [TS]
00:27:41 ◼ ► OK so we were actually I was a little nervous about not having a lot to talk about on the show [TS]
00:27:54 ◼ ► Which was surprising for me anyway so they came out with Facebook app links and I should. [TS]
00:28:02 ◼ ► So what is it like it's not a subsidiary of Facebook it's enough milieu with what poll says [TS]
00:28:13 ◼ ► So apparently some like subsection for lack of a better way of phrasing it Facebook [TS]
00:28:22 ◼ ► when you guys put this in the show notes it's probably for the best if I read this very quickly quote This is from [TS]
00:28:27 ◼ ► their web site with uplinks Facebook wants to standardize deep linking to native apps by using special metadata. [TS]
00:28:35 ◼ ► The basic premise of Apple Inc is that if the user taps on a link on a mobile device [TS]
00:28:39 ◼ ► and that link belongs to a Web site that in turn offers the same content in a native app with better features than a [TS]
00:28:45 ◼ ► web view the link could automatically redirect the user to the app if installed on the App Store. [TS]
00:28:51 ◼ ► With support for deep linking to content inside the app the goal according to Facebook actually considers [TS]
00:28:58 ◼ ► According to Facebook is to provide the best experience to user who clicks a link on a mobile device with features to [TS]
00:29:05 ◼ ► control what happens when a link is clicked on i OS Android or Windows Phone seven Frederica's right up actually. [TS]
00:29:10 ◼ ► Yeah I think OK so this I pasted in this paragraph like first light I saw this Facebook appling thing like fifteen [TS]
00:29:19 ◼ ► but I pasted in this thing because it sounds like something I would never ever want the idea that I'm on a Web site [TS]
00:29:26 ◼ ► and I tap on a link and it shoves me takes me out of the web browser puts me into an app [TS]
00:29:30 ◼ ► and shoves me into some deep thing in the apple example the video is like so you're on a Web site you see a movie like [TS]
00:29:38 ◼ ► and takes me into there about like I know example that gets annoying to have to go back to the home screen launcher [TS]
00:29:44 ◼ ► taken by an app do the same search you just did on the web but like if I'm in a web site [TS]
00:29:48 ◼ ► and I found the thing I would like to buy it there on the web I hate being I hate that little band that comes down says [TS]
00:29:54 ◼ ► hey I know you're looking at our Web site the did you know we have a happy you could try that. [TS]
00:30:00 ◼ ► Could provide better features than the web you look on the phone going to web browsing I'm doing stuff I want to do it [TS]
00:30:07 ◼ ► but if I'm never getting around the Web The last thing I want is to be chucked into an application deep linked [TS]
00:30:12 ◼ ► or otherwise so I do not like the idea of this thing like I'm assuming people commenting on this about like the [TS]
00:30:24 ◼ ► I was able do something about or whatever will people talk about that and I can show in the future I'm sure. [TS]
00:30:32 ◼ ► and cooperating you know multiple native apps coordinating to get a single job done [TS]
00:30:37 ◼ ► and yeah I guess the web browser is one of those of the native apps but if I'm on a web page like [TS]
00:30:41 ◼ ► and I don't like unlike those two things being an I don't like switching between those two things I don't care how [TS]
00:30:54 ◼ ► Well generally speaking I would agree with you that if I'm in the browser it's probably a deliberate action [TS]
00:31:02 ◼ ► and I want to remain in the browser in the api enters whatever they're called at the top they just get away in a very [TS]
00:31:11 ◼ ► Maybe less so if you're trying to like advertise that you have an app in any case the one time where I think this makes [TS]
00:31:29 ◼ ► I'm probably going to want to listen to whatever the song or playlist or what have you is in. [TS]
00:31:34 ◼ ► Spotify is app rather than in mobile Safari so for things like that it makes sense [TS]
00:31:42 ◼ ► I guess it's not the capability of it's bad so much as just as I see the potential for abuse in that if I was if there [TS]
00:31:55 ◼ ► But these Web sites these companies are so desperate to get you to install and use their apps. [TS]
00:32:03 ◼ ► and uncle's voice Brynn's like it's just annoying it's like I rather do you just make your website good [TS]
00:32:13 ◼ ► but like now if we give them the ability to make every single link a potential minefield it's going to take you out [TS]
00:32:28 ◼ ► or An affirmation really that that's a different problem. I think there's a couple problems. [TS]
00:32:35 ◼ ► I agree with everything John said so far which is that you have you know there are probably some some conditions where [TS]
00:32:44 ◼ ► but there's also probably just as many if not more where it's not what you want as a user [TS]
00:32:48 ◼ ► and yet you could then prompt the user to ask what they want and that's more clunking as more complexity. [TS]
00:32:57 ◼ ► Facebook thinks they have and they assume everyone else has the same problem but it doesn't really. [TS]
00:33:06 ◼ ► Furthermore I don't know how they could possibly get this to work very well because very effectively in the real world [TS]
00:33:16 ◼ ► and chrome is the one that are actually you know used for web browsing instead of sitting in a drawer [TS]
00:33:26 ◼ ► There's almost no chance in hell they would ever implement this in the safari so that's out. [TS]
00:33:32 ◼ ► Any chance of like you know a plugin architecture a mobile Safari that would enable plugins for this is probably also [TS]
00:33:41 ◼ ► but Google hates Facebook so I don't know if that's going to happen either you know what's in it for them probably [TS]
00:33:47 ◼ ► Does this require browser support I mean reasonable to know where the requires browsers [TS]
00:33:54 ◼ ► and I didn't like it I don't think was very good I thought their examples were you know. [TS]
00:34:03 ◼ ► but the way I understood it is if you tap a link in or if you end up on a page in a web browser including like a U.I. [TS]
00:34:16 ◼ ► Web view in say tweet bot for example then if you see all these meditates made attacks whether called at the top of the [TS]
00:34:29 ◼ ► Based on the information in these meditates and make a check you know with the with i O. [TS]
00:34:34 ◼ ► West and say hey does this U.R.L. Is this a U.R.L. That you know about and if so just quietly. [TS]
00:34:41 ◼ ► Well I guess not so quietly actually redirect into the apps a salmon Tweeple I land on. [TS]
00:34:45 ◼ ► I'm using a browser in twee part I land on a Spotify page then tweet but can say Oh I see that there's this Apple Inc [TS]
00:34:54 ◼ ► and I see that Spotify is installed on Casey's phone so much punchier to Spotify that Marco did you read into this at [TS]
00:35:02 ◼ ► No I actually spent about five minutes for the show looking at this because I think that is it for them so I could be [TS]
00:35:09 ◼ ► Yeah I think that's the way I interpreted it and hopefully will either get a lot of e-mail saying I'm right [TS]
00:35:14 ◼ ► or a couple emails of the diagram on the site is the one it's like it works across you know Windows Phone [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► Well Apple has no interest in this and the thing is of Apple has no interest in it [TS]
00:35:29 ◼ ► and I think as Rene tweeted us with a link to Rene and pressure no it's like doing this right. [TS]
00:35:39 ◼ ► but there's a reasonable chance that Apple might have some similar type of thing having to do with maybe like a better [TS]
00:35:44 ◼ ► version of X. Callback You're really something. Whatever Apple decides to do this it remotely in this area. [TS]
00:35:52 ◼ ► and that's what everybody on the highways platform is going to support making a cross-platform standard is so hard [TS]
00:36:01 ◼ ► and might potentially do its own thing because if Apple does don't think people will do whatever the hell I.O.'s [TS]
00:36:06 ◼ ► supports because it is still by far the most popular platform for games where people actually give you money [TS]
00:36:15 ◼ ► Yes I totally expect Apple to ignore this and of Apple ignores it it's a non-starter for the app platform anyway [TS]
00:36:22 ◼ ► and that means it's never going to be cross cross Plus I know it's not been standard involves a lot of good looking out [TS]
00:36:26 ◼ ► assignment that like your best bet would be to get the support of Leica W three C. [TS]
00:36:35 ◼ ► and trying to solve their cross-platform development difficulties. Apple is just not interested in that at all. [TS]
00:36:42 ◼ ► That's not to say that any Apple is the one who had that stupid annoying dialog box [TS]
00:36:57 ◼ ► So really I'm mad at everybody who keeps trying to make their app out all Apple adding the feature to standardize it at [TS]
00:37:04 ◼ ► and makes it like it doesn't slow down the browser as much because it's no longer terrible client side jobs running [TS]
00:37:14 ◼ ► but they wouldn't use this accelerated animation so it would be like you know javascript redrawing. [TS]
00:37:26 ◼ ► Apps that implement appling so be able to scan a link that's been tapped by the user in a matter of seconds understand [TS]
00:37:36 ◼ ► or offer a way to download the app from the App Store so this corroborates what I was thinking earlier that you're in [TS]
00:37:44 ◼ ► and Says hey is there something I can do with this or not and then can handle it and dump you into the app in question. [TS]
00:37:52 ◼ ► but to both your points without Safari supporting this I don't see how this is going to be that fantastic by the way it [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► There's a page fetch a requires it for eight let's say you've been an open Lincoln tweet [TS]
00:38:03 ◼ ► but it requires people to first fetch the H.T.M.L. Of the page. Parse it for these. [TS]
00:38:08 ◼ ► Look for these tags and then possibly offer you the option to redirect into an app for that [TS]
00:38:15 ◼ ► Yeah the reason I put that quote in there that one they just read was not to give information about because I wanted to [TS]
00:38:20 ◼ ► shame the copywriter who wrote it was like it's a little bit like Apple inks will be able to scan a link that's been [TS]
00:38:28 ◼ ► and comma in a matter of seconds comma understand whether it can be over in a matter of seconds I sure as hell hope not. [TS]
00:38:36 ◼ ► but like the copywriter is like this the wrong order of magnitude for how long it's going to really take this [TS]
00:38:41 ◼ ► cancelling thing you know is it really does take seconds there is a serious problem [TS]
00:38:45 ◼ ► when even the wording there scan a link that's not really true it's you know fetch the contents of a link [TS]
00:38:50 ◼ ► and then look at the contents to see if maybe you can open it I mean that's that's a different proposition. [TS]
00:38:54 ◼ ► I guess I don't see this being why they don't you know John as you said like if there's no chance that Apple can [TS]
00:39:00 ◼ ► implement this which I'm pretty sure that's the case then how much of a standard you know Facebook has a lot of this [TS]
00:39:10 ◼ ► Where Facebook always comes out you know that Facebook and Apple both have their And Google for an Amazon of everyone. [TS]
00:39:15 ◼ ► They all have their own their own breed of arrogance and Apple's arrogance is well known and well documented. [TS]
00:39:22 ◼ ► Apple's arrogance is rushing to make their own thing in that you can make the standard if you want to. [TS]
00:39:27 ◼ ► Facebook's arrogance is we're going to launch these platform the standards are going to be useful [TS]
00:39:31 ◼ ► and implemented by everybody even when that's almost never actually the outcome to what they make [TS]
00:39:40 ◼ ► and even they often abandon the things they make so you know it's I think this is this is a nice sounding story [TS]
00:39:47 ◼ ► but I don't see it being implemented by almost anybody important and certainly not widely enough to matter. [TS]
00:39:53 ◼ ► You know Facebook is not a trusted actor in this relationship right here because it's you know yes they're trying to [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► But it's so clear that it's it is designed to solve a problem that Facebook has which is how do we deploy our [TS]
00:40:05 ◼ ► application on all the different platforms Apple does not have that particular problem [TS]
00:40:09 ◼ ► or at the very least has it in a very small version if they still make ideas for Windows beyond that they do not want [TS]
00:40:18 ◼ ► So this isn't a problem they have and it's like why would we but we get on board with this thing that yes it's open [TS]
00:40:27 ◼ ► and will probably evolve to continue to serve Facebook. If we're not sure that I you know that's of the three C. [TS]
00:40:34 ◼ ► and even that is just like these big companies are all you know on the whatever in these in these working groups for to [TS]
00:40:40 ◼ ► really see at each other's throats trying to fight for the little details of you know what image elements going to be [TS]
00:40:45 ◼ ► used for multi resolution images on the web and whether we should support canvas and all of those stuff [TS]
00:40:50 ◼ ► and so that is a form in which they feel like it's a moral level playing field where all the big companies are are at [TS]
00:40:56 ◼ ► each other's throats trying to deal with web standards and whatever gets through more or less Apple implements [TS]
00:41:01 ◼ ► but Apple also does the thing where it proposes a standard then implemented and shipped it to millions [TS]
00:41:10 ◼ ► and everybody does that help you go I think maybe you should adopt it as a standard like it's not. [TS]
00:41:20 ◼ ► The sort of you know combine that around the campfire I think we're all going to get along type of thing I call [TS]
00:41:27 ◼ ► Facebook really to an open standard everyone should use it now. That's never what it's like. [TS]
00:41:31 ◼ ► So what is what is benefiting from Facebook by having a standard way with which to deep link into an app because that's [TS]
00:41:40 ◼ ► the essential premise behind this is not only that you can launch an app which everyone knows how to do reasonably [TS]
00:41:51 ◼ ► or that needs to be passed that appen order to get to the exact content you want. So what's the play for Facebook here. [TS]
00:42:00 ◼ ► You know if you look say you know Facebook obviously encourages sharing all their crap as much as possible. [TS]
00:42:05 ◼ ► Let's say you share in Lincoln something that goes to a Facebook property they want to be able to launch one of their [TS]
00:42:12 ◼ ► apps directly into that so that they control the whole experience on your show on their web page [TS]
00:42:26 ◼ ► Then Facebook just have I've seen tweets about it and they have like their little developer P.R. [TS]
00:42:32 ◼ ► Thing or some kind of that's called fifty eight hour God I didn't think of it that way. [TS]
00:42:41 ◼ ► but from what I've seen from Facebook in past months I'm going to pretend that I did [TS]
00:42:47 ◼ ► and I imagine that this is all part of the strategy that they have to stop being a single thing called Facebook which [TS]
00:42:54 ◼ ► is a Web site the you go to or more abstractly an application that you use through the web browser and other things [TS]
00:43:00 ◼ ► and start being a series of more special purpose applications circling around this giant hub of information they have [TS]
00:43:08 ◼ ► about everybody and so I I think like things like paper paper didn't replace the Facebook app. [TS]
00:43:16 ◼ ► It just kind of augment that I think what they want to make is a fleet of mobile applications for fleet of neighbors in [TS]
00:43:21 ◼ ► need of mobile applications that all cooperate in interoperate with each other and with them [TS]
00:43:29 ◼ ► and that's why they want to deep link from paper into the official Facebook app from the Facebook website into whatever [TS]
00:43:35 ◼ ► other app they come out with like the idea that they're transitioning into all their anywhere a platform [TS]
00:43:44 ◼ ► and all these different platforms can all talk to each other and you know sort of cooperate [TS]
00:43:48 ◼ ► or in some ways it is kind of like indirect communication but they're all their data is on the web and in the cloud [TS]
00:43:53 ◼ ► and so they have to do their version of indirect communication is a way to basically deep link from one application to [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► It Out of the web so it makes sense for from what they wanted to why do they think they want to do it as an open [TS]
00:44:08 ◼ ► and I think they would be happy if it became commonly supported because then they would have some assurance that the [TS]
00:44:13 ◼ ► OAS or the Web browsers or whatever wouldn't change in a way that prevents their standard from working you know. [TS]
00:44:20 ◼ ► and I guess I don't know it just at first I was like oh percent actually no this doesn't sound that after all it sounds [TS]
00:44:32 ◼ ► and how Apple will never support a noble safari in everything I just it kind of falls apart under scrutiny I think [TS]
00:44:39 ◼ ► What else is cool these days are friends a back blaze we're also sponsored this week once again by back please. [TS]
00:45:00 ◼ ► and throttled uncomplicated backup you know we've talked a lot about the value of online backup here before [TS]
00:45:10 ◼ ► or reads If you don't use this you're nuts I mean on the back it was amazing there's that there's an entire class of [TS]
00:45:16 ◼ ► problems hazards events where if you have a local clone a Time Machine backup like sitting in your office next to your [TS]
00:45:22 ◼ ► computer plugged in things like power surges lightning strikes floods fires that there's all sorts of of bad things [TS]
00:45:30 ◼ ► that can happen that would affect both the main computer and a backup if all you have is the one in your house and [TS]
00:45:39 ◼ ► and a whole bunch of other problems it's a fantastic solution I've been using it myself [TS]
00:45:43 ◼ ► and I've been using back plays for a couple years at least now very happy with it. [TS]
00:45:49 ◼ ► So they also have easily you can easily restore all of your file of course you can also easily restore just one file [TS]
00:46:04 ◼ ► There's also they just added email alerts so that you can say for instance like every every week [TS]
00:46:10 ◼ ► or two weeks that you know you saying all right this is the status here back here that we have we have this computer we [TS]
00:46:15 ◼ ► have this many gigs this is the last time I checked in it cetera so you can you can always you know be confident what [TS]
00:46:21 ◼ ► it's doing and you can of course also try to restore anything on the web whenever you want to to confirm that. [TS]
00:46:30 ◼ ► It's you know it's not some weird cross platform runtime thing it's a native application. [TS]
00:46:35 ◼ ► It's a new year a System Preferences those little menu bar thing it's pretty nice natively on back and I'm Mavericks [TS]
00:46:42 ◼ ► and it's also a P.C. Application as well. So there's a fifteen day trial with no credit card required. [TS]
00:46:50 ◼ ► And once again once you go to pay for it it's just five dollars per month per computer [TS]
00:46:54 ◼ ► and there's no gimmicks no add ons notational charges five bucks a month for unlimited [TS]
00:47:03 ◼ ► So by far the simplest online backup to use just install and it does the rest go to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:47:09 ◼ ► To get going. Once again is back please dot com slash A.T.P. and I used to recommend it. [TS]
00:47:14 ◼ ► Thank you very much to that place from Georgia. So God help me but I'm about to bring up comics. Skip skip skip. [TS]
00:47:28 ◼ ► but I thought I should at least ask you too if you had anything to say to me it seems like everyone is acting selfishly [TS]
00:47:34 ◼ ► as expected and there's nothing here to real nothing here. No but what do you guys think. [TS]
00:47:39 ◼ ► I think Merlin covered a very well on back to work this week so it will be useless in that he did a really good job of [TS]
00:47:46 ◼ ► covering the the nuance of this problem I mean my I had a quick blog post about it [TS]
00:47:51 ◼ ► and I'm not going to rehash it here basically my opinion is that Amazon as the new owners are coming solid going to [TS]
00:48:02 ◼ ► and it shouldn't be a surprise anybody the Dems on that in a way they always do and it kind of sucks [TS]
00:48:10 ◼ ► Whenever we talk about tech topics where there is something that upsets you know basically you know people who aren't [TS]
00:48:21 ◼ ► and there are blog posts of like that of this a couple different reactions that I see [TS]
00:48:31 ◼ ► One is easy one where people like people are part of his her particular company if they're like one company I don't [TS]
00:48:37 ◼ ► like another company whatever happens they're going to find out why this proves that Google is evil why this proves [TS]
00:48:41 ◼ ► that Apple is evil like whatever like that they have their favorite company they have become if they don't like [TS]
00:48:52 ◼ ► and people who hate Apple's thing it's Apple's fault because you know that a straight up the other way as people are [TS]
00:48:59 ◼ ► trying to figure out what's really going on and saying well it's really nobody's fault [TS]
00:49:02 ◼ ► and it is kind of sort of trying to do the middle of the road type thing where they don't want to assign blame [TS]
00:49:10 ◼ ► and just like well just the way it is because everyone just has to be selfish kind of like a said before [TS]
00:49:15 ◼ ► and my reaction to it is always a little bit I don't know if it's it's less common [TS]
00:49:22 ◼ ► I kind of like a parenting angle where whatever company I like the best like in this case will be Apple right. [TS]
00:49:29 ◼ ► I know something bad will happen and I will decide that I'm very disappointed in the company that I like [TS]
00:49:39 ◼ ► and then taking out that is something I don't like it like oh well you know you are the company I don't like [TS]
00:49:44 ◼ ► and this is your fault instead I will say what is it that my company did to cause this to happen you know like [TS]
00:49:50 ◼ ► disappointed in my child like that I hold that I hold my children to a higher standard right is I don't care what other [TS]
00:50:00 ◼ ► Real origin of the thing was just you know like the way I was thinking as I got my first reaction is always to blame [TS]
00:50:06 ◼ ► No it's because I expect more of them you know I mean like that I have a high standard I'm disappointed in them. [TS]
00:50:12 ◼ ► Yeah and we should point out by the way what we're talking about in case anyone was living under a rock this week [TS]
00:50:18 ◼ ► Comics ology the popular comic buying app for i OS especially i Pad It was bought by Amazon [TS]
00:50:24 ◼ ► and then like within a month they was on did basically just with the Kindle app does which is they removed the ability [TS]
00:50:35 ◼ ► and that even our term comic issues I'm sorry my comics person so anyway I'm not sorry. [TS]
00:50:44 ◼ ► and so now you have to like go out to the Amazon Web site separately by early cause all you have sight by is on by the [TS]
00:50:51 ◼ ► comics there and then go into the app and download them exactly where the Kindle app works [TS]
00:50:57 ◼ ► and that's almost entirely just to avoid paying Apple to thirty percent on the net on purchases [TS]
00:51:05 ◼ ► and Apple has a couple of rules that you know that you have to you know given the thirty percent on an emperor [TS]
00:51:11 ◼ ► and also that if you have a way on your site to for people to pay you without going through Apple for something that is [TS]
00:51:22 ◼ ► and you can't link to it from the apps so you can't for instance like you can just have an app like a link in the app [TS]
00:51:28 ◼ ► that kicks you at a safari first second you enter your credit card stuff on on your site. [TS]
00:51:34 ◼ ► and then kicks you back in the app that's that's no longer that was that was only allowed for two weeks [TS]
00:51:49 ◼ ► and many people are blaming Apple for this including John I guess many people are are blaming Apple saying well they [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► shouldn't be taking thirty percent or they shouldn't have that rule that you can't lie to your store [TS]
00:51:59 ◼ ► and that's certainly. You know something worth discussing and a lot of people are mad. [TS]
00:52:02 ◼ ► How much algae because they're ruining the experience here making it much more clunky to buy things [TS]
00:52:06 ◼ ► and probably losing a lot of impulse buys because what would happen I guess from what I've heard is that you get to the [TS]
00:52:12 ◼ ► end of a comic and it would ask you to buy the next issue and you could buy right there in start reading it [TS]
00:52:22 ◼ ► and have planned out before it ever since to do the same thing with the Kindle app. [TS]
00:52:27 ◼ ► and it's not about the takeovers it's about the big picture in the big picture is the technology exists to provide an [TS]
00:52:42 ◼ ► Like you said the ability to just write in the app impulse purchase comics every comic I've ever purchased in my life [TS]
00:52:54 ◼ ► and why because it is so ridiculously easy I'm not even in the cult I don't even like comics [TS]
00:53:03 ◼ ► and put little present in whatever you tap the button like that the whole killer that is the killer app of the App [TS]
00:53:08 ◼ ► Store the fact that you can with your thumb go and the game goes you know it goes awry [TS]
00:53:13 ◼ ► and I mean it's that they don't think that the barrier to entry so low so technology exists for sure to do that [TS]
00:53:22 ◼ ► and it's usually pretty good for the people selling the stuff too because they sell more stuff because the barrier to [TS]
00:53:29 ◼ ► Anything that prevents that from happening anything that says yeah we could do this and yeah it would be good [TS]
00:53:34 ◼ ► but I don't care what the bodice is about like well they have to get thirty percent of its there then [TS]
00:53:41 ◼ ► All I know is this is technologically possible it is not financially infeasible but it doesn't happen [TS]
00:53:49 ◼ ► and so you say Well Apple's us through Amazon is choosing not to follow them it's Amazon's fault for doing that. [TS]
00:53:55 ◼ ► This is not just one occurrence I mean I guess Kendall is also Amazon as well but like a lot of the. [TS]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Don't have thirty percent to shave off to give the apple and he said well they used to pay way more than that brick [TS]
00:54:08 ◼ ► We're supposed to be getting better over time in that like the the value you're getting out of being in the in the App [TS]
00:54:14 ◼ ► Store is that we're thirty percent of the relationship you have with a retail establishment even though they took more [TS]
00:54:20 ◼ ► off was much more complicated in terms of the English you know for books in the case of books being able to ship things [TS]
00:54:32 ◼ ► and I'm not saying they should charge less than the thirty percent not saying they shouldn't charge their percent on [TS]
00:54:36 ◼ ► saying that it is in Apple's interest as the platform owner to figure out what they have to do to make it so there's a [TS]
00:54:42 ◼ ► good experience that is that is definitely a win win out over the win win win to use the you know the business beacon [TS]
00:54:48 ◼ ► of if everyone's going to be at least two of the three parties here are going to be happy with this they need to figure [TS]
00:54:53 ◼ ► out a way to make it happen and the second thing that annoys me about is the strategy tax thing [TS]
00:54:59 ◼ ► and they pay themselves they were sent Don't worry it's you know that that seems like is that the reason they're not [TS]
00:55:06 ◼ ► doing because they want to promote my book so I don't think I haven't seen sells comics are probably on this case been [TS]
00:55:09 ◼ ► the Kindle Store really burns me that you know candle can you know it kinda want to sell their books inside out which [TS]
00:55:20 ◼ ► and really there is just I don't think this thirty percent hanging around to shave off of these things right [TS]
00:55:27 ◼ ► but then they have to match a store on the web store like all these rules that Apple set up are made to introduce [TS]
00:55:36 ◼ ► and therefore not be able to offer people a discount for going to the Web site or don't use it [TS]
00:55:40 ◼ ► and people are choosing not to use it and you can say well they're playing hardball now. [TS]
00:55:44 ◼ ► Amazon's fault but at this point I think it's clear that Apple strategy of just holding the line at thirty percent [TS]
00:55:49 ◼ ► and saying nope are never going to you know that's going to be this way for everybody and that's it. [TS]
00:55:53 ◼ ► It's not working it's not making people it's having the opposite effect people aren't saying well what choice do we [TS]
00:55:58 ◼ ► have I guess we just got to do it because we want to get. Our customers a good experience and we get more sales. [TS]
00:56:08 ◼ ► or whatever I think Apple called Apple needs to do something about it because we want to have you know I mean there are [TS]
00:56:17 ◼ ► But and really give you the option of not paying Google whatever percent if you use your own payment processor. [TS]
00:56:23 ◼ ► Right yeah. So on Android you can if you use Google they they charge of their thirty percent just like the others. [TS]
00:56:29 ◼ ► But there's no rule against using your own so you can build in your own mini a big upset [TS]
00:56:38 ◼ ► when they sell something they also tend to usually charge at least thirty percent on digital good session like for [TS]
00:56:46 ◼ ► smaller publishers for self published people they actually often charge more than thirty percent [TS]
00:57:02 ◼ ► nor in very knowing how Amazon splits up its money because that is a whole separate issue of yes you can definitely [TS]
00:57:07 ◼ ► complain about Amazon they're not great about it you know like they want all the money for everything they want to sell [TS]
00:57:13 ◼ ► and give you nothing for they want to give your thing away free like Amazon does that's just talking about the [TS]
00:57:18 ◼ ► and everyone else because that's where the dysfunction is like we get if we could address this [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► and we could buy things inside the thing then the secondary disfunction be like OK well how much of this purchase price [TS]
00:57:30 ◼ ► or whatever so I think that's a little bit of a side show in a lot of people like Well this is better because some of [TS]
00:57:37 ◼ ► but that's not why I like Don't hang your hat on that is the reason we should be able to buy things I and I.I. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► I don't know what that different thing is everything you buy Amazon you know brain is a different thing you. [TS]
00:58:05 ◼ ► You lower your percentage you come up with a different kind of deal like because consumers are suffering for it [TS]
00:58:09 ◼ ► and that I think is the primary response addles like oh we just care about making great products. [TS]
00:58:15 ◼ ► It is not a great product when I can't buy cando book Inside the Kindle app is just not well. [TS]
00:58:19 ◼ ► So yeah I disagree on this point on that the idea that Apple has to do something that Apple is somehow you know losing [TS]
00:58:29 ◼ ► and argument I don't think is entirely fair one side of this is you know well we should we will do whatever we want on [TS]
00:58:35 ◼ ► this computing platform because we're able to do whatever we want on Macs and P.C.'s [TS]
00:58:46 ◼ ► but you know there's no third party software that doesn't go to the App Store unless you jailbreak So that's literally [TS]
00:58:51 ◼ ► But this isn't a technical issue this isn't a safety issue this isn't a technical issue this is an ease of use it is [TS]
00:58:57 ◼ ► like it's a capability thing that we know is possible it's a bit it's an artificial business constraint. Well sure. [TS]
00:59:02 ◼ ► But OK so this is this is only a contentious issue because Iowa is the dominant tablet platform for people who buy [TS]
00:59:11 ◼ ► things and read them on tablets that they also use for anything else in the world. [TS]
00:59:14 ◼ ► So what if the dominant portable computing platform was you know what if it ended up differently. [TS]
00:59:21 ◼ ► What if the dominant tablet or the dominant portable computer platform was the Sony P.S.P. [TS]
00:59:32 ◼ ► No one ever had apps on that I mean they had a quick little Katie Katie thing that died thank God it was to have data [TS]
00:59:37 ◼ ► best. You know you could make after the Inconel Apple could not make i Books for the candle. [TS]
00:59:47 ◼ ► As a game console game console work very differently similar to how the app store works. [TS]
00:59:53 ◼ ► and so you know there's you look at other types of computer vices that aren't just P.C.'s and Macs. [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► Other Other times you can hear devices that are you know owned by one company that are kind of vertically integrated [TS]
01:00:05 ◼ ► etc They don't they work usually the same way that Apple does with the same kind of rules [TS]
01:00:14 ◼ ► and including one of Amazon's own platforms it is very very popular because the Inconel platform so I don't really think [TS]
01:00:21 ◼ ► that it's that Apple has to do anything here or that the necessarily unjustified or there [TS]
01:00:29 ◼ ► So your argument is that because other people do bad things Apple is also entitled to do bad things. [TS]
01:00:40 ◼ ► You are not entitled to access Apple's customer base on your own terms that you dictate. [TS]
01:00:47 ◼ ► But it's not it's not there it's not the Amazon that has the entitlement I'm having the entitlement of the customer. [TS]
01:00:51 ◼ ► I'm supposed to be the one that Apple is serving like they're they're reducing the value of their products to me [TS]
01:00:56 ◼ ► through this fight that they're having with Amazon over this like the Amazon is certainly certainly not entitled to [TS]
01:01:01 ◼ ► access Apple's cuz that's the whole but the whole fight is over like those two companies are fighting [TS]
01:01:07 ◼ ► and a certain point us being the losers affects Apple more than it affects Amazon than as I can go anywhere [TS]
01:01:13 ◼ ► and selling to whoever them of the UN cares much less about who the winner is in that whatever space than Apple does [TS]
01:01:24 ◼ ► but that's not like they're shunning I.O.'s Android they will still sell where they want to sell it's us losing [TS]
01:01:36 ◼ ► But if for example Apple had become ridiculously dominant like they were had ninety percent market share [TS]
01:01:41 ◼ ► Maybe Amazon What a loss this one maybe they would have gone back to selling in the app [TS]
01:01:45 ◼ ► but it didn't work out that way and so I now I think it's time it's time to readjust. [TS]
01:02:00 ◼ ► It's products the best they can be for its customers in the long term not just the short term. [TS]
01:02:04 ◼ ► Well I guess that I was willing to give them a year or two to play hardball and see how it went. [TS]
01:02:08 ◼ ► But it is going badly for them and I blame Apple because they're my child I will disagree that it's going badly [TS]
01:02:15 ◼ ► but also one more thing I think Apple could probably look at this from another angle [TS]
01:02:20 ◼ ► and say you know you can't if you're proposing a change to abstract policy you can't just look at it as what with what [TS]
01:02:27 ◼ ► would like good implementations do with that what would good people do with that you know how would that be used well [TS]
01:02:33 ◼ ► if they also look at it as how would that be used terribly How would that be used by scanning people by crappy [TS]
01:02:38 ◼ ► companies like King like how how would that be used by terrible people and terrible companies [TS]
01:02:44 ◼ ► and if allowing other purchased systems that Apple does not run would also introduce a huge risk of an erosion of trust [TS]
01:02:55 ◼ ► in the payment system by bad actors like you know big game companies with purchased scheme stuff like that like bad [TS]
01:03:04 ◼ ► actors having their own credit card and put things in their apps that then behave badly. [TS]
01:03:09 ◼ ► But who is suggesting that though no one is suggesting that. Well so also that's you know one of the options. [TS]
01:03:16 ◼ ► One of the options is to reduce Apple's cut let's say they've cut in half to fifteen percent do you think that would [TS]
01:03:25 ◼ ► but the cut goes down the most feasible option for feeling like what's a practical solution [TS]
01:03:29 ◼ ► when you actually want them to do two things one on it I think aside they should make it possible for someone with it [TS]
01:03:35 ◼ ► where the catalog volume the size of conduct ology let alone Amazon itself if there's any limit. [TS]
01:03:40 ◼ ► Amazon is going to hit it with like you know an Amazon dot com for example you know like that sells everything that [TS]
01:03:52 ◼ ► and then what I would change about it is it's ridiculous that they have this hard line thing where it's got to be [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► I think it's not insane like oh it's unfair why did they get a special deal because they're Amazon dot com You're not [TS]
01:04:10 ◼ ► and Apple seems so tied like it's seventy thirty and never changes every street equally is not nice [TS]
01:04:20 ◼ ► when your consumers are made to have worse experiences because of I don't know what crazy principle that you want like [TS]
01:04:25 ◼ ► you know each individual apple developer to feel fair I don't think it's unreasonable to cut a deal with them about [TS]
01:04:32 ◼ ► The terms that you don't even need to be public I don't care what Amazon and Apple have to do to [TS]
01:04:37 ◼ ► or with each other behind closed doors deal to happen. Just do what you have to do. If someone complains. [TS]
01:04:47 ◼ ► and then you'll get a special deal too like is that crazy in my my breaking secret rules of the App Store by suggesting [TS]
01:04:58 ◼ ► Historically Apple has generally very consistently enforce the same rules for everybody big and small [TS]
01:05:09 ◼ ► but they generally do not negotiate major exceptions to rules like that even with companies big in Amazon or Facebook [TS]
01:05:17 ◼ ► or the New York Times very point that they really have not done that and I agree they have [TS]
01:05:27 ◼ ► and a lot of its problems honestly are because of this this kind of like almost sort of mostly democratic system that [TS]
01:05:38 ◼ ► or it is in a lot of respects like the top list is you know famously minimally filtered you see like crabby scam out of [TS]
01:05:53 ◼ ► But but most for the most part the app store is run on a pretty level playing field. [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Where big companies are not allowed to break rules that small companies can't also break [TS]
01:06:06 ◼ ► but not breaking a rule if you if you have a deal like the anger in the chatter about this is a dress a couple of [TS]
01:06:11 ◼ ► things then to me says they really think that of Amazon is given a better deal they will automatically pass the money [TS]
01:06:16 ◼ ► to the counting prints Not course not I didn't say that down that anyone said that. [TS]
01:06:19 ◼ ► Again we're not talking about Hamelin demise of the money there's a whole separate issue that's totally not what I'm [TS]
01:06:24 ◼ ► talking about I don't know what Amazon would do with a probably not because that's not how they work [TS]
01:06:32 ◼ ► This is it's a business relationship when you win when Apple is buying parts from someone who makes like screens [TS]
01:06:46 ◼ ► and corruption is just how business works you get volume discounts if you're going to drive a certain amount of [TS]
01:06:51 ◼ ► I don't think that's corruption or bribe that's that's just that's just how business works. [TS]
01:06:56 ◼ ► and no one else is entitled to see how much sense I'm paying you for screen that would not entitle to see that. [TS]
01:07:05 ◼ ► Someone's bring up anti trust Apple doesn't have the market share in any market to be even remotely considered trendy [TS]
01:07:12 ◼ ► trust except of the crazy people who are going to say that Apple has a monopoly on Apple computers I love that one that [TS]
01:07:24 ◼ ► and that's a good idea right up to the point where it seems like there's some sort of problem here there is definitely [TS]
01:07:30 ◼ ► And like maybe they could never come to the like of a can come to a deal they can come to a deal [TS]
01:07:34 ◼ ► but as far as any of us are aware they've never even considered this is an option I mean another example is they hell [TS]
01:07:41 ◼ ► they held the line on I imagine a lot of the rumors about like Microsoft in office and why isn't Office available. [TS]
01:07:50 ◼ ► And so that went on for a long time till vengefully Microsoft blinked and produce office [TS]
01:07:55 ◼ ► but they found a way to do it without giving up a cut because you have to sign up for office three sixty five. [TS]
01:08:01 ◼ ► I thought they were giving up on the car if you bought in the app for the for the subscription you mean I thought it [TS]
01:08:06 ◼ ► was a little of both I thought that the way that Microsoft hopes you go is you already have an office three sixty five [TS]
01:08:15 ◼ ► But I believe Marco you're also right that there is an inapt purchase of some capacity that Apple does get a cut of the [TS]
01:08:23 ◼ ► like the thing I was talking about early on was Microsoft Office will be available for the i Pad will be ninety nine [TS]
01:08:28 ◼ ► dollars Apple will get thirty percent of that and that's not Microsoft it's not what happened. [TS]
01:08:35 ◼ ► and they're free right to free download it so that that is you know it's a different mind elation strategy as opposed [TS]
01:08:43 ◼ ► to simply selling office at a premium price and giving ample time to send it right off there [TS]
01:08:47 ◼ ► and like in that case there would be no way to get office without paying Apple thirty percent [TS]
01:08:51 ◼ ► and now there is a way download a free app go to Microsoft's website where they offer you the same price as you know [TS]
01:08:58 ◼ ► I think customers didn't really lose out on that one and I think Apple kind of won that battle [TS]
01:09:03 ◼ ► but the battle over an application through which you naturally want to buy things and consume them right in them. [TS]
01:09:09 ◼ ► Apple's not winning that battle for whatever reasons and I think something should be done about it [TS]
01:09:17 ◼ ► and has not been able to penetrate the market people are like will screw up on was going to get an android because [TS]
01:09:22 ◼ ► you're not like I think I've had to go back. You know again I think it's apples still. [TS]
01:09:28 ◼ ► Maybe that's what they think they're like we're still in the driver's seat eventually will win this [TS]
01:09:37 ◼ ► and we just see a lot of it because you know we know people who read comics and are angry about it [TS]
01:09:42 ◼ ► but I think it is a way of a type that will continue coming up until someone figure something out. [TS]
01:09:52 ◼ ► So the Times in which we all get bitter about the thirty percent seem to be as so far as I can tell. He's selling. [TS]
01:10:11 ◼ ► and can prove to us that you're a reseller then we'll drop the fee to fifteen percent or something like that. [TS]
01:10:17 ◼ ► And so for things like games where you're not really reselling anything and then you still pay the thirty percent [TS]
01:10:26 ◼ ► and say yes I promise that the shell company isn't me you have to actually go to someone in Apple [TS]
01:10:39 ◼ ► and thus it's not it's not reasonable to give Apple thirty percent you will give them the lower tier cost [TS]
01:10:46 ◼ ► but you don't need to think that hard about this you can do think if you're so stuck on doing uniform rules [TS]
01:10:54 ◼ ► Percent and if you know ten billion dollars I mean like there are plenty like it which Microsoft does that. [TS]
01:10:59 ◼ ► These are not like new technologies in the world of business like this our business is work forever is just of the apps [TS]
01:11:07 ◼ ► and not have any variability for volume so that if you sell three in purchases for virtual coins versus thirty billion [TS]
01:11:13 ◼ ► in purchases you get exactly the same percentage and I think in being endeavour and you know the like [TS]
01:11:18 ◼ ► and it's only a problem until like it's making your platform worse to deploy applications on the Kindle app is worse on [TS]
01:11:28 ◼ ► and comics ology just got worse because the previous company that owned it was going to bite the bullet [TS]
01:11:39 ◼ ► but who cares they were willing to do this because that was how they got traction they got enough traction the guy [TS]
01:11:43 ◼ ► bought of Amazon from a Sun doesn't need traction Amazon is Amazon dot com So yeah they take with everything because [TS]
01:11:48 ◼ ► when I was on does it's not like I'm saying Amazon is the scorpion here it's like well it's in its nature it's going to [TS]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Getting worse for me to do things I like to do on it and I just want it to be worked out. [TS]
01:12:05 ◼ ► Marco before you jump in I just like to point out I understand the scorpion reference I said I'm going to have a [TS]
01:12:10 ◼ ► critical and you listened you know John you're you're assuming that Apple needs to address this [TS]
01:12:16 ◼ ► and you're in your position you're arguing that it is an assumption you're you're arguing that Apple needs to fix this [TS]
01:12:22 ◼ ► and I just don't see the urgent need and I think the Kindle app being this way for so long I mean it's been what four [TS]
01:12:34 ◼ ► That's been there long enough and it doesn't seem to really be affecting Apple sales or customer satisfaction. [TS]
01:12:41 ◼ ► You know overall it doesn't seem to be that that you know Apple's really like being held to the fire here that they [TS]
01:12:49 ◼ ► I don't I don't see the big push I don't see why they would have to do any of these things why they [TS]
01:13:03 ◼ ► But then but at that point I could stop blaming Apple and say Well Apple offered them my point or one percent [TS]
01:13:13 ◼ ► and if I want to own the entire customer process not just that commission they want they want everything to be going [TS]
01:13:26 ◼ ► Well the idea that like they don't need to do it because like well they've been doing it for years and Kindle [TS]
01:13:32 ◼ ► but like the one thing I would point to that like a metric to say well maybe they would have sold more i Pads of you [TS]
01:13:40 ◼ ► but the one thing you can point to is gold Tim Cook's favorite customer sat kind of them [TS]
01:13:44 ◼ ► or sat around people who read comics has suddenly gone down I can tell you that and I think customer [TS]
01:13:50 ◼ ► and didn't have a deal like customer sat on people who use the Kindle app would go you know WAY higher for their i Pad [TS]
01:14:03 ◼ ► and like that's what they use for I bet there are people out there who can settle their Kindle reader [TS]
01:14:06 ◼ ► and if suddenly those people could buy the things like they got to the end of series one of the book series [TS]
01:14:12 ◼ ► and said Do you want to start writing the next one tap the button you tap the button a little spinner pay for two [TS]
01:14:18 ◼ ► Their customer sat with their i Pad would go up like that is a metric that you can track that they talk about a lot [TS]
01:14:26 ◼ ► Is it causing people to not buy pads I don't like maybe Customer satisfaction is disconnected from their bottom line in [TS]
01:14:34 ◼ ► but they do care about it because that's their whole thing is like we're trying to make great products that make people [TS]
01:14:38 ◼ ► And here's a case where they're intentionally choosing not to do something that they know make people happy because of [TS]
01:14:43 ◼ ► a fight they're having with a competitor about pricing and I so I guess that it's OK to do that for a while [TS]
01:14:51 ◼ ► and you know customer satisfaction with these experiences they're still not going up to the level they know it could be [TS]
01:15:00 ◼ ► So assuming that there's no rate change that could get Amazon to actually accept that [TS]
01:15:05 ◼ ► and do everything directly through apple assuming that the only thing that would allow them to offer an app purchases [TS]
01:15:11 ◼ ► on Apple's platforms in a way that Amazon would approve would be to do a Google allows which is to just have their own [TS]
01:15:17 ◼ ► payment processing in the app that you know an apple would just remove the rule that you can't do that. [TS]
01:15:23 ◼ ► Do you think the net gain from that in overall Apple ecosystem customer satisfaction assuming that anybody else could [TS]
01:15:30 ◼ ► do that same thing assuming that you had said earlier like assuming that you know King could put their own payment [TS]
01:15:36 ◼ ► system in candy crush to make thirty percent more and that any random After put their own credit card system in [TS]
01:15:40 ◼ ► but you keep you keep going back to your own payment system No the suggestion that I would never suggest that people be [TS]
01:15:47 ◼ ► So you're basically putting forth the idea that Apple should negotiate a lower rate with Amazon [TS]
01:15:54 ◼ ► It's not just Amazon like Sam is on a hard place hardball like we will give you a red cent. You'll never get any of it. [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► Thing I think if you don't you know if for example Amazon's policy was if you don't let us implement our own payment [TS]
01:16:05 ◼ ► and then I would say that Apple interest not to say well you implementing your own payment system would make it worse [TS]
01:16:11 ◼ ► for our customers so it's not actually we're not going to be a customer so I news ever get it [TS]
01:16:15 ◼ ► but then that would mean like Marvel unlimited knowledge other like comics knowledge you had white label versions are [TS]
01:16:22 ◼ ► but there's a potential for other people in the market to say well we'll do a deal for the people who own these comics [TS]
01:16:27 ◼ ► and we will sell comics electronically and we will let you buy them from within our app [TS]
01:16:31 ◼ ► and you would see the people who are into comics they will screw comics all the I'm not using them anymore you can even [TS]
01:16:35 ◼ ► buy into the app I'm going to this other thing I'm going to description plan like those ones where you pay a monthly [TS]
01:16:48 ◼ ► and say well you're not willing to pay Apple two percent but I think two percent of the reasonable transaction fee [TS]
01:16:52 ◼ ► and we're going to pay it and now everyone going to come to our unknowns going to buy three [TS]
01:16:55 ◼ ► or think of it I want to go to a Web site to buy stuff I'm looking at you know just what effect these kind of decisions [TS]
01:17:06 ◼ ► and I don't I don't see a scenario here where Apple could make a change that would be that would dramatically improve [TS]
01:17:19 ◼ ► and you know wouldn't have too high a cost in users as I think you know even ignoring the money Apple would lose on [TS]
01:17:29 ◼ ► I don't see this is being a net when I see you know bad people taking advantage of it [TS]
01:17:37 ◼ ► Which should reduce customer satisfaction but that people do it with a reduced rate based on volume [TS]
01:17:43 ◼ ► or otherwise you get a reduced rate that's that's something that I think would probably only negatively affect Apple [TS]
01:17:50 ◼ ► but I also don't like I don't see Amazon taking that deal and you're right maybe someone else will [TS]
01:17:55 ◼ ► and maybe you know maybe that'll be the situation but see I just I don't I don't see the big. [TS]
01:18:05 ◼ ► and even now most of the anger is going to comics all Juda Amazigh Apple's not even getting hit by most of it. [TS]
01:18:10 ◼ ► but the customer satisfaction with their i Pad goes down they're less satisfied with their product I mean like maybe [TS]
01:18:15 ◼ ► it's like that doesn't reflect on Apple maybe they blame comics ology But what if they next time there they need to buy [TS]
01:18:21 ◼ ► By then they have long since heard that this isn't a problem on Android and they read you know comics there [TS]
01:18:27 ◼ ► Maybe that will change their decision like it's small but you know these little things add up. [TS]
01:18:39 ◼ ► but if people find out that oh if you get a Kindle Fire you can buy was in the app that may attract them [TS]
01:18:43 ◼ ► or to rekindle fire especially if they start using a tablet mainly as a Kindle device. [TS]
01:18:48 ◼ ► and you want to said this earlier because the I for me was Mark because the i Pad is so much better than everything [TS]
01:18:54 ◼ ► else on the market I don't think that customer sat will be influenced negatively enough to level the playing field. [TS]
01:19:04 ◼ ► I think you're probably right and that's what Apple is counting on to build these little things add up [TS]
01:19:09 ◼ ► and says that the white label versions of comics ology are keeping their in that purchase [TS]
01:19:13 ◼ ► but like I said now that Amazon owns them I wonder how long those white label versions of comics ology Apple are going [TS]
01:19:23 ◼ ► I think the companies that put out the comics themselves actually white label them those people are highly motivated to [TS]
01:19:33 ◼ ► and apparently there they have been willing to pay a thirty percent I assume they will continue to be willing to buy [TS]
01:19:38 ◼ ► and that could be a way that Apple quote unquote wins this one by basically saying well no more you can't college [TS]
01:19:43 ◼ ► anymore we'll still get thirty percent and thirty percent from these other people instead. [TS]
01:19:49 ◼ ► That's that's potentially true as well. Like I'm just tired of the game of chicken. [TS]
01:19:56 ◼ ► and I don't want to see I don't want to see ads coming on to the platform and just. [TS]
01:20:00 ◼ ► We're all just him of course you can't buy within the application of course you have to do the dance to go through a [TS]
01:20:03 ◼ ► website and like a little some can look at going to ask me Grampa why why can't I buy things inside applications. [TS]
01:20:10 ◼ ► They well ten decades ago three decades ago I wrote I can't do math anymore than old Apple decided that they want to [TS]
01:20:21 ◼ ► and Apple still makes the best tablet that we have to do this because of a fight between these giant corporations. [TS]
01:20:27 ◼ ► Well we're also sponsor this week by by friends once again a new relic new relic is an all in one web application [TS]
01:20:45 ◼ ► Nowadays if you're any business you're in the software business software power amps runs [TS]
01:20:55 ◼ ► When software breaks everyone loses new relic helps improve your software performance so your users have a better [TS]
01:21:06 ◼ ► or use a win win win new relic monitors every move your application makes I don't know what is a win win win is that [TS]
01:21:18 ◼ ► Oh OK but I've heard that in other businesses though is is like that kind of like two companies [TS]
01:21:22 ◼ ► and the customer kind of thing as three parties you know weird new relic monitors every move your application makes [TS]
01:21:30 ◼ ► and shows you what's happening right now you can zero in on problems quickly with transaction tracing S.Q.L. [TS]
01:21:36 ◼ ► and Not fuel performance analytics application topology mapping and deployment history markers [TS]
01:21:54 ◼ ► Java dot net Python and even node their agents are collecting data immediately and you can. [TS]
01:22:00 ◼ ► If we see inside you're apt to start finding hot spots fixing issues and optimizing your performance. [TS]
01:22:17 ◼ ► I didn't listen to the Back To Work episode yet I'm still behind so I don't know if Marilyn had to say about it [TS]
01:22:21 ◼ ► but sorry if I repeated I mean the stuff that he said he mostly took the kind of middle moderate ground of like this is [TS]
01:22:29 ◼ ► and you know we kind of shouldn't be making assumptions like we understand everything going on with these big companies. [TS]
01:22:34 ◼ ► OK Well yes we did overlap although we did talk about like you know I tried as glamorous as far as we know because who [TS]
01:22:40 ◼ ► knows like what overture is any one company is making the Apple who knows what response Apple making to them we just [TS]
01:22:47 ◼ ► and what they end up doing I don't think this is this issue is going to be resolved in time soon between you know Apple [TS]
01:22:52 ◼ ► with their thirty percent rules and they're no less Journal payment processing rules versus Amazon [TS]
01:22:58 ◼ ► and their desires versus customers and their experience I just you know the Kindle app has been this way for years [TS]
01:23:06 ◼ ► and neither side has budged at all so I don't I don't see that changing for a very similar applet the same parties [TS]
01:23:15 ◼ ► I just don't see it changing the volume discount thing has the advantage that it lets everybody pretend that they [TS]
01:23:20 ◼ ► didn't budge because Apple can say well we still apply the same rules to everybody. [TS]
01:23:27 ◼ ► and now you know because what the what that encourages is you're encouraged to drive more business through Iowa sell [TS]
01:23:35 ◼ ► tons of crap because the more stuff you sell the lower percentage goes and so that would let everybody save face [TS]
01:23:48 ◼ ► Tons of other people be like oh now I am much more highly motivated to figure out a way to sell goods through the app [TS]
01:23:54 ◼ ► store because I like if I just saw a little bit I find if I sell tons of them as a percentage that gets taken goes down. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► Only the people selling the most for the app store are you know companies you mention who are using existing in a [TS]
01:24:06 ◼ ► purchase system to sell digital coins to people who are busily into dollars and write well and they are to like. [TS]
01:24:13 ◼ ► There is pretty much like besides Amazon one of the one of the major examples are there that would have enough of an [TS]
01:24:28 ◼ ► and we know for customers that Apple would be more pressured to act beyond just let's just keep thirty percent of its [TS]
01:24:36 ◼ ► You know you got to convert potential things like if Apple wants to be able to buy things to arrive pads [TS]
01:24:44 ◼ ► and I think they should because I think that's a great way to buy a lot of content that can be digital. [TS]
01:24:49 ◼ ► And I think it should use a single unified system that Apple controls for an aperture so everyone isn't like all the [TS]
01:24:58 ◼ ► So anybody who's going to sell that could potentially find its way through the invisible airwaves to your i Pad should [TS]
01:25:05 ◼ ► Some of the Sharon brought up like I had look where the revenues coming from of it's all coming from the big guys [TS]
01:25:10 ◼ ► and they wouldn't change the rate because then they basically Apple would be losing money. [TS]
01:25:20 ◼ ► Yeah Apple will make less money like this is the problem of this whole thing is that people you know I go out will run [TS]
01:25:25 ◼ ► the i Tunes Store break even and that's not really a profit center and I know the App Store is like take up. [TS]
01:25:30 ◼ ► It's really just enough to keep the lights on but it is always been like apples and know their secret strategy [TS]
01:25:36 ◼ ► or whatever but it has been pretty clear like you could see Apple five years ago rubbing their hands ears [TS]
01:25:41 ◼ ► and yes ignore our break even businesses they're totally not there to make money just to make our devices more valuable. [TS]
01:25:47 ◼ ► They know that it is you know this is what you want the type of system where we don't have to do anything more [TS]
01:25:53 ◼ ► and we magically get money like the people can drive more and more money through our systems. [TS]
01:26:00 ◼ ► Metallic when to sell somebody it's much easier to December let someone tap another button [TS]
01:26:05 ◼ ► and send get another thirty percent cut of a transaction is going to our system and lo [TS]
01:26:08 ◼ ► and behold years down the line suddenly Apple's business is like i Tunes is not the roads are going to break even I [TS]
01:26:14 ◼ ► started to make some significant money in the App Store same thing like oh it starts [TS]
01:26:19 ◼ ► but I have a feeling that Apple would like it if these businesses stop being breakeven [TS]
01:26:25 ◼ ► and while people aren't paying attention that's where they're going so any potential planet says we're going to give [TS]
01:26:30 ◼ ► you less revenue because of your volume discount. It's like Apple might be thinking. [TS]
01:26:35 ◼ ► I know we've always kind of pretended this is like a break even the we're going to this it might actually be a break in [TS]
01:26:40 ◼ ► business and we're not Amazon we don't we actually want profit so there are forces against any idea like this [TS]
01:26:47 ◼ ► but it's almost like I wish it would hurt them more because you're right that it's not hurting them [TS]
01:26:57 ◼ ► It's just like he's just like a little thorn in your side where you know it could be better [TS]
01:27:07 ◼ ► but I'm I can before I could buy the books on the thing you will have to explain that to her [TS]
01:27:13 ◼ ► It's impossible to not reasonable Apple product is worse in this one small way and it galls me [TS]
01:27:19 ◼ ► or I should just get a patent just buy things and i Books. That's a fate worse than death. [TS]
01:27:28 ◼ ► Fracture back plays and new relic and we will see you next week after her and she is going on. [TS]
01:28:11 ◼ ► and the director you want talk about this weird test flight thing that we've been putting off forever it's really old [TS]
01:28:42 ◼ ► So Bursley was acquired to do we even know like is there any actual confirmation that apple of the acquire the Internet [TS]
01:28:55 ◼ ► but test flight basically just like very quietly shut down like it stop accepting new new applications [TS]
01:29:04 ◼ ► or new customers to beta test the apps with it and it's just like quietly shutting down [TS]
01:29:13 ◼ ► They just like a very very quiet shutdown and so the theory is that Apple bought them [TS]
01:29:23 ◼ ► Maybe Apple might actually integrate test flight like functionality into the provisioning portal for A.O.S. [TS]
01:29:31 ◼ ► ID dance with with things like hockey and test flight another beta testing type things but. [TS]
01:29:40 ◼ ► but I would love it to be the case I would love for the story with test flight to be that Apple's building something [TS]
01:29:45 ◼ ► like this in and that's why it's showing them. But first it was also a big mobile ad company right. [TS]
01:29:55 ◼ ► and has little side project they had that wasn't making any money travel just you know made them quietly shut down. [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► If you could be any of these things I would put money that they're going to do the thing a test I did inside Apple just [TS]
01:30:06 ◼ ► because it makes so much sense that I mean any time you see a bunch of third party sites popping up the developers are [TS]
01:30:12 ◼ ► using like water developers using hockey outlasted Alvarez using test flight. Apple hates that. [TS]
01:30:18 ◼ ► Yes I think there's something that you know third party developers need to be done. [TS]
01:30:23 ◼ ► There should not be a thriving ecosystem of companies that serve these developers needs to do these things if the thing [TS]
01:30:31 ◼ ► they're doing is something like and it's common. So Apple wants to eventually have a solution to do that. [TS]
01:30:38 ◼ ► and this company did that I would say it's almost guaranteed that what they're trying to do is get something in-house [TS]
01:30:45 ◼ ► Seattle and probably this is probably just like you saying nothing ever get better in the App Store [TS]
01:30:50 ◼ ► Yeah it's some kind of psychological barrier that I have where especially in areas like this like the provisioning of [TS]
01:30:58 ◼ ► ID limits you know beta testing being such a pain I can't fathom Apple actually making a major improvement to this [TS]
01:31:08 ◼ ► They're probably still give you a list of ideas that only rotates at a certain level still be plenty things to annoy [TS]
01:31:15 ◼ ► Like just general experience of provisioning and the ability of people to easily download betas and distribute. [TS]
01:31:22 ◼ ► Like I'm assuming they will fix some of the annoyances but I guarantee there will be more there remain. [TS]
01:31:34 ◼ ► and everybody that like you know this might finally be the year where where Apple like really makes things better for [TS]
01:31:40 ◼ ► developers in the App Store so you know the tools that the Xcode has fantastic been improved a lot. [TS]
01:31:46 ◼ ► Good to see the language has been improved a lot and all the tools there are really great [TS]
01:31:50 ◼ ► but then you cross over into like the provisioning and i Tunes connect and the App Store rules [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► and all that stuff the developers knowing forever I have no faith that Apple will ever improve that stuff because they [TS]
01:32:10 ◼ ► Biggest have it like the App Store has been running now for what six years five years and it [TS]
01:32:20 ◼ ► But then to think they have been kind of in the middle of a multi-year arc where they've been adding lots of stuff so [TS]
01:32:32 ◼ ► and there's like they've been doing a lot of stuff to code signing provisioning profiles and betas and like [TS]
01:32:37 ◼ ► and sandboxing in the sandbox bookmarks on the macro opening up like they're adding all sorts of things you can do [TS]
01:32:43 ◼ ► and revving their compiler children like they've kind of been out running themselves leaving a trail of crappy half [TS]
01:32:53 ◼ ► and say that's what I hope they're doing by buying test lies like we're OK We had a way to do this before the way [TS]
01:33:04 ◼ ► but merely make it less incredibly unpleasant to do with something that you could previously do you know I mean [TS]
01:33:09 ◼ ► and I'm hoping that they're at that point I mean I I say it may be a move in that direction as well no there were over [TS]
01:33:19 ◼ ► I hope you're right I don't have high hopes I don't have a lot of faith but I but I hope you're right. [TS]
01:33:38 ◼ ► but one of the your L W W W directly to a stock car really inventive and that's my that's my second crack [TS]
01:33:50 ◼ ► What do you what is the directory called for the project. It has to have something it does. [TS]
01:34:00 ◼ ► Where support man you know how to pronounce a word but you see it on Wikipedia all the time. [TS]
01:34:07 ◼ ► But anyway so that's all written in node and everyone's probably breaking it now and that's OK. [TS]
01:34:13 ◼ ► So what's it going to take to get you off of the using your last name of the pond thing as an impossible task. [TS]
01:34:20 ◼ ► No I mean I couldn't think of a good name and I was so that's so in many ways it's kind of a mash up of underscores [TS]
01:34:36 ◼ ► and so I I look to underscore site after I had decided to call this thoughtless and he just calls his David Smith [TS]
01:34:49 ◼ ► List dot com I don't have a fancy pants name like hypercritical that I've been using for forever so I don't know this [TS]
01:35:02 ◼ ► but I'm not in love with it either so didn't you read that whole post that you wrote about not doubting yourself you [TS]
01:35:08 ◼ ► should not have the title of the thing that says that your thought was I did I was coming that's why I was like if I'm [TS]
01:35:18 ◼ ► I've never seen you use the the list last name pun in a way that wasn't self-deprecating. [TS]
01:35:25 ◼ ► Well you know that's kind of my schtick because it sounds like the last thing was on a lot of goodwill. [TS]
01:35:37 ◼ ► and I've been piddling with it a little bit lately I only do a clock on it four hundred five lines of code. [TS]
01:35:44 ◼ ► Basically the way it works is there's a series of markdown files in a dream directories that match the directories you [TS]
01:36:06 ◼ ► and then other than that it just processes the markdown files throws on a header or throws on a folder [TS]
01:36:13 ◼ ► and so it's four hundred five lines of node using several packages because I haven't yet been horribly burned by third [TS]
01:36:32 ◼ ► Finally you figure one out that is not so temperately all because that has flaw in it is like the flaw letters with the [TS]
01:36:39 ◼ ► flowers. It's like you can use the last name of the I know I know I got to think of a better name. That's pretty even. [TS]
01:36:45 ◼ ► Even your brag had had if I had offered and he was marked down I might replace mine with it [TS]
01:36:54 ◼ ► but it does so I want what's wrong with mark down your appearance right on your everything [TS]
01:37:01 ◼ ► Again I find that for me I find it better hope that I don't want to go there no translation. I going to publish H.T.M.L. [TS]
01:37:13 ◼ ► No I don't have to say how I was going to transform I don't need to do it like a transformation it's just not the tower. [TS]
01:37:21 ◼ ► but that's the way I do it in a way most people seem to like markdown until they make Ollie that's the work of markdown [TS]
01:37:25 ◼ ► and if you don't he's marked as well what it's worth marked how much I want to phrase this wrong [TS]
01:37:34 ◼ ► Yeah I know you can just write as you know mark until it's like once and that them without the police. [TS]
01:37:38 ◼ ► Well so what I'm saying is with the. So if you look at any one of these U R L's and put the dot M D I did. [TS]
01:37:46 ◼ ► Shirts one as example as an example you would have to have the AT and then you know the couple meditator entries. [TS]
01:38:03 ◼ ► I just use the email format with the first blank line in the Header section and then I have the H.T.M.L. [TS]
01:38:08 ◼ ► Yeah I do something similar because I have I have like header format on top. Keep talking all show you one of mine. [TS]
01:38:21 ◼ ► So in this that's what this is about it made sense to me I wanted to try something that I hadn't done before which is [TS]
01:38:28 ◼ ► and I didn't like the code I don't love the code a part of me wants to throw it on get her been embarrassed myself [TS]
01:38:36 ◼ ► but I really want to fix a few things up for I do it like for example it's a good thing I only have to post on there [TS]
01:38:43 ◼ ► because if we go if I go past the No ten it's going to look ridiculous because I don't see pagination at the moment the [TS]
01:38:52 ◼ ► and I actually already have a plan I just haven't implemented it yet I'm going to do like the world's worst pagination [TS]
01:38:58 ◼ ► which is kind of a loose pagination want to get it worked out maybe we'll talk about another after show. [TS]
01:39:02 ◼ ► But yes I'm I'm pretty proud of it look it's white not because he always says white it's white because I can figure out [TS]
01:39:13 ◼ ► but I don't know if I felt like I needed to spend all this time like working out better C.S.S. Because I suck at C.S.S. [TS]
01:39:20 ◼ ► and I for a brief moment like I thought about copying the Marco you know one color at the top [TS]
01:39:25 ◼ ► and then everything else blow and then I looked at it the way it was and was like you know it's good enough. [TS]
01:39:34 ◼ ► and maybe I'll open source it may be along if you're even thinking about showing this code to anybody it is a lot [TS]
01:39:40 ◼ ► better than throwing because I would never show it. I don't like looking at it myself. [TS]
01:39:45 ◼ ► If it's bad but it's not awful there's definitely a lot of places where it could be cleaned up in and spruced up [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► How bad can he really screw up four hundred five lines check the scripts Leaving aside the fact that a transcript in a [TS]
01:40:11 ◼ ► And I'm looking at the source that you paste in the chat Marco This is not a link blog I have no I have no support for [TS]
01:40:20 ◼ ► like a link post vs a regular post but so it's just a block but I don't want to get so far. [TS]
01:40:30 ◼ ► but I mean if I did I would guess I would go ahead support whatever the risk is the real problem is that he likes [TS]
01:40:40 ◼ ► and I completely agree one hundred percent agree the one hundred percent the problem. [TS]
01:40:45 ◼ ► Well you could steal my arrow afterwards is there after her before your hour everybody uses [TS]
01:40:53 ◼ ► A lot of other people you that everyone use the infinity for permalink sinners just like there's no more glyphs So game [TS]
01:40:59 ◼ ► over. But what's wrong with just using the standard glyph that everyone else uses. [TS]
01:41:03 ◼ ► If you want to be different Marco you want to be your own special snowflake that he won't want to be a brand where you [TS]
01:41:08 ◼ ► can't be your own special snowflake That's Dr Dre The real problem with with Link blogs I think is that you know [TS]
01:41:17 ◼ ► Number one is is like what the feed items link to the letter which option you pick people will be upset [TS]
01:41:24 ◼ ► and confused to different people you know that's true. So that's that's one problem. There's no good solution to that. [TS]
01:41:35 ◼ ► and a length of the post it's confusing as to whether you wrote this whether that's your title of your post or [TS]
01:41:52 ◼ ► Well I mean you can avoid that by not making that the title to be a link to anything on the page [TS]
01:42:01 ◼ ► when you're viewing just the page it just shows that story the title is not a link everybody thought the title is a [TS]
01:42:08 ◼ ► but I would say you may go to that you know I don't know it's like where does the link go [TS]
01:42:13 ◼ ► and only post on a bronze from it I would say goes the story like I like the idea of linking from the text that you [TS]
01:42:20 ◼ ► write to the thing you're talking about and not relying on the title to fill that role than kind of redundant [TS]
01:42:26 ◼ ► but then I don't like that the big problem link blogging is that all of these questions like there's no clear good [TS]
01:42:33 ◼ ► solution like whatever you pick is going to have to pick one of people and people have to get used to it. [TS]
01:42:40 ◼ ► Yeah there is that's one of the worst but most people don't think either of us any more these days. [TS]
01:42:44 ◼ ► Kind of takes care of it so I just use both I have an alternate feed of my footer that that has the other link style I [TS]
01:42:51 ◼ ► just noticed that earlier today which I had never seen before obviously the other thing I wanted to talk about briefly [TS]
01:42:56 ◼ ► about this was how I'm hosting it which is to say that I'm put I put it on her Roku because for anyone where I know as [TS]
01:43:07 ◼ ► and I have from what I can tell this didn't get absolutely crushed under the load of live listeners. [TS]
01:43:19 ◼ ► when I went to deploy to Heroku having never used Heroku before I looked at how to do it [TS]
01:43:27 ◼ ► and what it amounted to was I needed to add a proc file to my source which specifies that it is a Web site not like a [TS]
01:43:40 ◼ ► and which node file to run I needed to clean up my package Jason which defines what my dependencies are. [TS]
01:43:53 ◼ ► and suddenly I had a website I now know their system anymore because I thought it was generating static files [TS]
01:44:09 ◼ ► but once it's generated it's held in memory for some amount of time I don't recall. [TS]
01:44:14 ◼ ► So you're right it isn't static but nevertheless I would assume that it should hold up to some pretty heavy load. [TS]
01:44:23 ◼ ► Well you can do the the credit thing which I considered before I decided even this was too much work with make a system [TS]
01:44:29 ◼ ► a demo here it's web pages and is Croyde yourself to create your static pages and upload the stuff [TS]
01:44:58 ◼ ► but the thing with with all the static blogging systems static blogging is is really great but [TS]
01:45:04 ◼ ► and I use it on my site but you can get almost all of the benefit from just caching [TS]
01:45:14 ◼ ► If you do static want to main things is you have to serve the same markup to everybody in the same seat like you have [TS]
01:45:19 ◼ ► to serve the same content for every hit you can do server side browser detection or device to action. [TS]
01:45:26 ◼ ► Altering what you send in a mobile way out separately like you have to serve everyone the same market [TS]
01:45:35 ◼ ► or even outsourcing comments to other services like discussed where you just embed a static javascript link [TS]
01:45:40 ◼ ► and the thing works. You know if you really all dynamic functionality to javascript embeds or to C.S.S. [TS]
01:45:54 ◼ ► or just just put like a caching proxy in front of your server and put like you know. Varnish or our engine X. [TS]
01:46:01 ◼ ► In caching mode you know put those in furniture we're just have a cash every hit for one second. [TS]
01:46:10 ◼ ► Of one second you'll be able to tolerate almost every possible flood of traffic you will ever get. [TS]
01:46:16 ◼ ► Even if the thing to be generated from a database on every hit that actually gets through it's a static point [TS]
01:46:23 ◼ ► and it does offer high performance but it also just offers a pretty strong degree of simplicity for deployment. [TS]
01:46:29 ◼ ► So the again I like I'm not doing it for performance reasons doink isn't cheap. Hank is there anywhere. [TS]
01:46:37 ◼ ► and that's like it's not just people like you have the most options like it will literally work everywhere there is no [TS]
01:46:42 ◼ ► you don't need to run anything you don't need to have any in software there is no software like that's static blogging [TS]
01:46:48 ◼ ► is not underarms reasons it's just mostly for just you have all the options in the world it's going to work everywhere [TS]
01:46:59 ◼ ► but that's not really why you're doing it like it just keeps the whole Ana there is software they just move it. [TS]
01:47:04 ◼ ► I mean that's what they like you said there's no suburb unless you're actually writing H.T.M.L. [TS]
01:47:20 ◼ ► but you control that like it's not your deployment options are unlimited you can move from one hosting provider to [TS]
01:47:31 ◼ ► or complicated thing you need a different point it's like it is arcing file somewhere [TS]
01:47:36 ◼ ► and that's you know if you have a site that actually gets traffic then you don't worry about this [TS]
01:47:40 ◼ ► and find write some code to play I don't like my site doesn't get in traffic I want the cheapest possible thing I can [TS]
01:47:45 ◼ ► possibly get and that ends up being static hosting and you know if you get what you pay for [TS]
01:47:52 ◼ ► and that now because I was looking performance like Occasionally I do get traffic Burress [TS]
01:48:14 ◼ ► but like I said you know as soon as I've parsed the markdown for any of these pages it's held in memory for at least [TS]
01:48:21 ◼ ► half an hour if not more than that until I either deliberately toss the cash or you know at times out of whatever. [TS]
01:48:31 ◼ ► but I I feel like I should in principle be able to understand it to handle a crowd or the traffic without crumbling. [TS]
01:48:46 ◼ ► Sample the files that you're reading are static they just happen to be some of markdown [TS]
01:48:52 ◼ ► and it's not like you know it is a single process like event driven right you know the same thing over others that you [TS]
01:48:57 ◼ ► don't you know the worry about your cache getting divided through a patch you children [TS]
01:49:04 ◼ ► and really just like me no one's going to read your blog so we're both except really really no one's going to read my [TS]
01:49:12 ◼ ► and nobody reads Here's where you can compete you'll be surprised if you could will read my blog where you never post [TS]
01:49:17 ◼ ► which says that exactly if you know imposing nobody read another works and admittedly I'm not good at that either [TS]
01:49:24 ◼ ► but I don't know yet I just it was a lot of fun it was a lot of fun to do I'm still I'm still very impressed with how [TS]
01:49:38 ◼ ► and it must of been well under half an hour maybe even under fifteen minutes between the time I said you know what let [TS]
01:49:43 ◼ ► me just see if I can throw this on her Roku and if it'll work and the time that I had it not only up there [TS]
01:49:49 ◼ ► but I updated my D.M.'s to point to it. It was unbelievably quick and easy and that that really is awesome. [TS]
01:49:56 ◼ ► But at the five dollars a month if yo dollars a month. Yeah yeah he's beating you up. [TS]
01:50:02 ◼ ► Yeah I guess that's true but then he's stuck the point some places for snow days you know they also support P.H.P. [TS]
01:50:12 ◼ ► I have no I honestly don't know I mean basically if I had more web front ends then that costs money [TS]
01:50:19 ◼ ► but in terms of like bandwidth or you know I don't know if it if after thirty gigs used or something like that [TS]
01:50:28 ◼ ► Time or something we need to do is get one of your stories to go over like Hacker News [TS]
01:50:31 ◼ ► and like a bunch of other sites simultaneously saying The Daring Fireball link and Marco a link it [TS]
01:50:37 ◼ ► and we'll see if you get into the pay czar because I like the part even though I don't have an ending my blog post [TS]