The Accidental Tech Podcast

63: I Hold My Children To A Higher Standard


00:00:00   Well live stream right now there are ones freaking out about what up Kris Allen found out when I live here [TS]

00:00:06   and we do have some follow up something happened a few hours ago. [TS]

00:00:11   Thank goodness because otherwise this would've been a short [TS]

00:00:16   but yeah we do have some follow up so John Mitchell to tell us about how people do or do not play games. [TS]

00:00:22   Yeah last week I mentioned the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was [TS]

00:00:27   and if someone wrote it in the chat room I didn't notice so I apologize for that [TS]

00:00:32   but I looked it up so you know it's on our to find this information so here are the stats this is in regards to both of [TS]

00:00:38   you saying that you have grown out of playing games [TS]

00:00:40   and me saying that's ridiculous because most people who play games are even older than your adult. Wait hold on. [TS]

00:00:45   Neither of us said we grew out of games that that's going to get some feedback which already has which is not accurate. [TS]

00:00:54   I don't remember the exact quote but it was something like you just felt like you were out of it [TS]

00:00:57   or anyway everyone responding think that's what you said. [TS]

00:01:00   Obviously the miscommunication and you can feel free to clarify because I keep saying I agree with K.C. [TS]

00:01:04   and Marco I also grew out of games like we're seeing those responses again that doesn't mean that's what you said I [TS]

00:01:09   mean what we both said was was that we didn't see games that we didn't see games as like a juvenile thing that you [TS]

00:01:18   would grow out of but rather we play games for a long time and then we you know in recent years [TS]

00:01:24   or weren't you know after we left college or whatever we just didn't choose to spend our time playing games [TS]

00:01:29   or didn't have the time to plug into anymore so it's not necessarily a growing out of it because that implies that it's [TS]

00:01:35   not like a juvenile thing it's it's more that we just chose not to spend our time doing that anymore. [TS]

00:01:39   Yeah I would agree that our priorities shifted. [TS]

00:01:42   It's like the same result but with with a different reason [TS]

00:01:45   and with with less judgment in the reason nationally one of you said I don't know I guess I just grew out of it I'm a [TS]

00:01:52   bit of a joke and yes later you did say that these markers are that you didn't think they were juvenile or anything [TS]

00:01:57   but everyone latched on to the growing up thing. [TS]

00:02:00   Here is the information I was trying to get across is that the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was. [TS]

00:02:05   The average age of game players according to the Entertainment Software Association which is trade association attracts [TS]

00:02:10   the type of things video games is thirty one years old. [TS]

00:02:14   This is this is the United States that only I think the only US anyway. [TS]

00:02:19   The average age of the US population is thirty seven point two So yes the average age of the people in the United [TS]

00:02:26   States is slightly older [TS]

00:02:27   but I think that makes sense considering video games were introduced partially into the lives of many people who are [TS]

00:02:32   alive today so you don't have a sample you know everyone alive wasn't born when video games are introduced the. [TS]

00:02:38   The ratios are fifty two percent male forty eight percent female [TS]

00:02:41   and out of the most frequent game purchases the ratios are exactly even fifty fifty male female they say fifty nine [TS]

00:02:48   percent of Americans play video games. And here are some stats and breakdowns. [TS]

00:02:52   Women over eighteen are thirty six percent boys eighteen [TS]

00:02:56   or younger are seventeen percent so twice as many women twice as many adult women play games as juvenile boys do [TS]

00:03:02   and if fifty one percent of U.S. [TS]

00:03:04   Homes have given out so and there's an average of two game console in each house that has any. [TS]

00:03:10   So like I said most game players are more or less our age. I'm older than thirty one. [TS]

00:03:14   You guys are also both older than thirty one right. I am thirty one you know. [TS]

00:03:18   So you're exactly the average age of a gamer [TS]

00:03:21   and I think it makes sense because our people your age mark on my age are basically like video games were invented more [TS]

00:03:27   or less when we were young by the time we were old enough to play them. They were popular. We played them. We grew up. [TS]

00:03:33   We continue to play them. [TS]

00:03:35   Whereas people who were you know thirty years old before the Atari twenty six hundred introduce are much less likely I [TS]

00:03:41   think to have gotten into it so we are sort of the first generation of people to have grown up with games in a make [TS]

00:03:45   sense that we continue to play them whereas the people who are sort of ahead of us may have never gotten into it at all [TS]

00:03:51   and I think I made all these points and show people talking about growing out of games and stuff [TS]

00:03:56   and tweeting about it and so on and saying well I do it I don't do it as much now as are you. [TS]

00:04:00   Still you may grow out of the games that you played [TS]

00:04:03   when you were a child in the same way you grow out of the books that you read [TS]

00:04:06   or you don't read Little Golden Books anymore you don't watch a Hanna Barbera cartoons they were like there are many [TS]

00:04:10   things you did as a child you grow out of but a Video games are a medium and they're fairly diverse [TS]

00:04:16   and so even though you of course you don't have the time to play games that used to be you know time to do anything [TS]

00:04:21   enough time to just pick any any sort of leisure time activity you do for him or time that when you're a kid. [TS]

00:04:27   But as you get older you will like different games just like you like different movies [TS]

00:04:31   and different television shows and different books [TS]

00:04:34   and that I think is natural I think a lot of the people who say well I grew out of games you know all I do now is [TS]

00:04:40   and then they insert like the three games that they play but I barely have time for that. [TS]

00:04:43   Well yes of course you barely have time for that if you're still playing games like that [TS]

00:04:46   and you didn't really grow out of games just grew out of the games that you played as a child. [TS]

00:04:50   It's true that some people never go out of the game they played as a child maybe they're plates of murders a child they [TS]

00:04:54   love tomorrow to this day and they keep playing it that's fine too. [TS]

00:04:58   Same thing with books I mean how many adults out there really young adult books as like you know [TS]

00:05:03   and love them like the Harry Potter series is a good example [TS]

00:05:05   or a lot of these things even like the hunger games I like that a lot of these books are technically young adult books [TS]

00:05:10   that many adults enjoy them today not to grow out of that should they have grown out of books [TS]

00:05:14   and they have grown out of those specific books I don't think that's an important distinction [TS]

00:05:17   but the idea that games are something that most people played when they were a kid [TS]

00:05:23   and don't play anymore I think is not borne out by the statistics at least in the United States. [TS]

00:05:28   Do people count as gamers if they just have like Angry Birds on their phones versus like a console game or a P.C. [TS]

00:05:36   Game like is there a distinction should there be a distinction and maybe the answer is no. [TS]

00:05:41   But should there be a distinction between like people who have a couple of casual games on their phone versus people [TS]

00:05:47   who like you know own dedicated gaming hardware or have bought like a forty [TS]

00:05:51   or fifty dollar game before I don't think they're making those kind of distinctions I think they consider all games [TS]

00:05:57   games and so what I like I don't. If you cycle. [TS]

00:06:00   I don't play games all I do is [TS]

00:06:01   when you insert some I was game that you obsessed we played every moment of spare time like yeah you play games. [TS]

00:06:07   They do add information on console that you would consider the like that's not casual right I don't know if that's [TS]

00:06:12   still AAA [TS]

00:06:13   and the thing is a fifty one percent of homes have a game console in them somewhere in those homes as playing those [TS]

00:06:17   games right. [TS]

00:06:19   And so you know it's not like well thirty one percent on the game console [TS]

00:06:22   but the only only Google Play game console are the seventeen percent of gamers who are male [TS]

00:06:26   and younger than eighteen like that seems unlikely [TS]

00:06:29   but anyway I count them all as games like there's plenty of legitimate games [TS]

00:06:34   and I us I mean maybe they're not counting like solitaire and minesweeper [TS]

00:06:37   but I think maybe these days those sort of fallen by the wayside [TS]

00:06:41   but I don't I don't think there's a useful distinction between it was not a real game as like I am that's not a real [TS]

00:06:46   book that's just a I don't know mystery novel romance novel do those not count as real books [TS]

00:06:51   or something it has to be Tolstoy game as a game as a game. [TS]

00:06:56   Fair enough I actually do have a question for you does Tina get involved in any of the video gaming around your house. [TS]

00:07:03   She plays games on her phone a lot and I think that's where she plays a majority of her games [TS]

00:07:07   but at various times she has been very into as an adult very very into both console games and computer games. [TS]

00:07:14   But these days any time I have I don't want to reveal her dirty gaming secrets [TS]

00:07:19   but so many certain I was games that have the ability to get their hooks into people have gotten their hooks into her [TS]

00:07:26   and so she is very susceptible to that and I don't approve of most of the games that she plays [TS]

00:07:30   but she definitely has a place for your kids because I know your son. [TS]

00:07:36   Last I heard is really and Minecraft is that still the case. You know it's Minecraft it destroyed his life and ours. [TS]

00:07:45   Here we had a very diverse gaming education up until the age of you know I guess nine sometime in his ninth year of [TS]

00:07:53   life Minecraft came and destroyed everything else having to do with life. He is obsessed with Minecraft. [TS]

00:08:00   As he played any game other than mine recently I don't think so. [TS]

00:08:04   He's totally obsessed and neither your son or daughter got into the way you very much. [TS]

00:08:09   Well I mean that's when his friends come over he plays the way you would his friends giving us [TS]

00:08:14   and you know Minecraft is not as much of a social game. So he does still play that and I assume then the next. [TS]

00:08:20   Recently I've been playing games that he can't play with me [TS]

00:08:23   but I'm assuming the next game that we can all play together comes out hell play with me like been exiled a game [TS]

00:08:27   or a body clock I can't remember the name anymore because the last guardian of that ever comes out he'll play that with [TS]

00:08:34   me but he's not clamoring to play those games we have all the game console hooked up [TS]

00:08:38   and I've been playing games on more than he has. [TS]

00:08:41   But yeah like it's like it's natural for kids is age to get obsessed with things like this [TS]

00:08:46   and just as Marco says Total Annihilation units [TS]

00:08:48   and everything you do have a certain point you get really into one game like yeah you like lots of games [TS]

00:08:53   and then a certain certain game comes and absorbs you [TS]

00:08:56   and this is happening with my grand my daughter I keep trying to get her to play games many many times on many [TS]

00:09:01   different console than on the computer should play a little bit of kind of casual games and I was [TS]

00:09:06   but she's just not into it and I want to really push it but I keep I keep putting them for an error [TS]

00:09:10   and I actually had a play Monument Valley in that I think was about her speed someplace. She just turned seven. [TS]

00:09:18   I did buy that game [TS]

00:09:19   and have not even opened it like now ever since I was six I believe added the new badge on apps so that you could tell [TS]

00:09:27   if you have an app you've never launched before I've really been shamed by those badges on my phone because it's all [TS]

00:09:34   games and there's like there's probably right now my phone probably had like seven [TS]

00:09:38   or eight games that I bought in the last six months that I haven't even launched yet [TS]

00:09:44   but I want to be a gamer in theory but I never decide to spend the time doing that. [TS]

00:09:49   And Monument Valley is actually a great example of an application that takes advantage of retina. [TS]

00:09:56   If they go to the matter for games who cares after those a low rez three doing scaled up. [TS]

00:10:00   But this minor value has graphics that really benefit from from the retina resolution because they're just such a [TS]

00:10:07   beautiful little finely detailed things it's not it's not like a typical three D. [TS]

00:10:12   Game or stuff flying all over the place it's just you know it's very precise and it looks great [TS]

00:10:17   and right now I think the game itself. I think it's more of a casual game. [TS]

00:10:21   I think it is very beautiful and interesting [TS]

00:10:24   but it's way too easy for anyone who's actually you know experienced gamer and plays games a lot [TS]

00:10:31   and as a little bit short I really care about like there's like I'm buying it for the length of it was short [TS]

00:10:35   and so I feel like I just should have a little bit more there in terms of the the overall expect maybe if it was harder [TS]

00:10:42   and I had more of a challenge [TS]

00:10:44   but I recommend it for lots of people who you know who find the games that I enjoy too challenging so I think that's [TS]

00:10:50   why I had my daughter play is like well you'll be able to play this you'll be able to to do well [TS]

00:10:54   and it will challenge you a little bit. [TS]

00:10:56   I think you'd be bored by Margot but you still just want to just look at the graphics because like I said it is. [TS]

00:11:01   It's the rare game that I can even imagine on a non retina screen being half as nice looking. [TS]

00:11:09   So you said that it it's probably way too easy for an experienced gamer. [TS]

00:11:14   So now a little concern that I won't be able to handle you well if I think I need to try it I haven't bought it yet I [TS]

00:11:22   keep forgetting about it any time I'm sitting in front of my phone or i Pad just goofing off [TS]

00:11:26   and so I need to get it although I may I don't know like maybe my things are skewed as I have seen tweets from people [TS]

00:11:32   talking about like not so much getting stuck [TS]

00:11:34   but having difficulty I can't tell if they're joking so maybe my idea of what's difficult [TS]

00:11:38   and what's not is totally skewed so [TS]

00:11:39   when you should just play it like just play through two levels will take you five minutes. [TS]

00:11:42   Just tell me it was not like there's almost no choice like it leads you. [TS]

00:11:47   It's it is very linear there's not many places that you can go wrong and the same could be said of journey [TS]

00:11:54   but like it's different you know. Anyway try to do homework for you to try to first. [TS]

00:12:00   A levels and it takes me thirty five minutes [TS]

00:12:01   and I not admit it will not that of the first level to get thirty seconds to tell you about two minutes. [TS]

00:12:07   One more quick theory about about gaming and losing interesting game in overtime [TS]

00:12:14   and maybe this is just me I don't know and John I'm sure going to have a good explanation for this. [TS]

00:12:19   I've found that one of the biggest factors I think that got me out of gaming [TS]

00:12:24   and maybe just coincidence because it overlapped my age progression in my work progression. [TS]

00:12:29   But one of the things I think got me out of gaming is so many of the types of games that I enjoyed. [TS]

00:12:35   I fell out of favor and you know we would get almost none of them made anymore so for example I love to T. [TS]

00:12:42   Platformer games sonic Mario any of the good to the performers I love those. [TS]

00:12:47   But almost nobody makes two platforms anymore and incorrect. Well hold on hold on. And I did put it also want to X. [TS]

00:12:53   Box Live. Shadow Complex I think is cool. I did put out one and loved it. [TS]

00:12:57   And so you know for a while and maybe maybe now the indie scene is getting as back fortunately [TS]

00:13:04   but for a while like once the three D. [TS]

00:13:07   Systems came out the Play Station the N sixty four the Saturn it became like two the platform is basically one extinct [TS]

00:13:16   for a while and the same thing happened with R.T.S. Games where I loved R.T.S. [TS]

00:13:22   Games as you mentioned I told my Lucian phase earlier love their P.S. [TS]

00:13:26   Games through my through almost my entire teenage hood and that's a word and. And then R.T.S. [TS]

00:13:33   This kind of stuff being made very well after maybe two thousand three thousand four ish like supreme commander was it [TS]

00:13:41   was like a big one it was awesome but nobody bought it and then they kind of went by the wayside as fantasy [TS]

00:13:46   and M M O's kind of took over. And so if that kind of bothered me too. [TS]

00:13:52   And and now like Iowa and I also I also love turn based tragic games but those are very few and far between. [TS]

00:14:00   Almost never commercial hits [TS]

00:14:02   and now with I.O.U.'s like some of the best casual games is you know are they used to be great [TS]

00:14:09   and I want to get in for like five bucks and they were awesome and now they've all been ruined with freemium [TS]

00:14:13   and free to play all that crap [TS]

00:14:15   and so I wonder like you know is this just me am I am I just kind of missing the new stuff because I stop looking [TS]

00:14:23   around like I do with P.H.P. [TS]

00:14:24   or Is this like is this a legitimate reason why I've been kind of kicked out of gaming for a while. [TS]

00:14:31   I don't know but there's two things there one there are John or has that become more [TS]

00:14:37   and less popular time to think of it in terms of movies like murder mystery movies where the whole plot of the movie A [TS]

00:14:43   summer is murdered you had to figure out who it is you don't see a lot of them anymore. [TS]

00:14:46   Used to see some of them but like that that genre has become less popular it does happen [TS]

00:14:51   and it comes in cycles you know what's popular now may not be what's popular fifty years from now [TS]

00:14:56   and goes around circles on that front by the way there isn't a setting correct for the two to games that right now [TS]

00:15:01   there's a massive Renaissance into the platform research on a particular like because I'm not into treaty platforms [TS]

00:15:06   but they're all the place and not just in the game. [TS]

00:15:08   Intend to bring out a brand new team Marielle games that I enjoy way less than the three D. [TS]

00:15:14   Versions [TS]

00:15:15   and there's just a constant stream of them in those are not in the things those are like you know they're their flagship [TS]

00:15:21   titles and tons of indie ones so if you're into two D. [TS]

00:15:24   Platforming like you cannot throw a rock without hitting to the platform. [TS]

00:15:28   But one of the gunners you mentioned real time strategy. [TS]

00:15:31   The type of real time strategy I'm talking about like I symmetric sprite based you know two D. [TS]

00:15:38   Map kind of thing like before the age of three D. Hey wait hang on a second. [TS]

00:15:43   Put on my leash and it was none of those by the way go ahead. [TS]

00:15:46   All right I don't know what that into your real time strategy games are but yes they eventually went through anyway. [TS]

00:15:52   They became less popular a lot of the reason they became less popular is because computers became more able to do the [TS]

00:15:58   john or is that became more pop. [TS]

00:16:00   So once first person shooters start to take over the entire universe and you could do any John [TS]

00:16:04   or in first person perspective so there was first person everything real time strategy games became less popular. [TS]

00:16:11   They're still out there I mean they're still Starcraft they're the things that they've kind of you know that same type [TS]

00:16:17   perspective you see not that you know the album is not a real time strategy game [TS]

00:16:20   but a similar perspective in that you're looking down on I well it's like a little board and clicking on people [TS]

00:16:23   and doing things. [TS]

00:16:26   Yeah if you get really into a particular game [TS]

00:16:30   and a particular genre in a pretty particular implementation of that genre because people like oh I like real time [TS]

00:16:35   strategy games but I don't like they want to do X. Y. and Z. [TS]

00:16:37   Only like the ones that like what I was I think it was a myth on a Paschal about how much I liked him so different now [TS]

00:16:42   there are D.S. [TS]

00:16:43   Games if you're into those specifics you may have to wait for another one of those things to come around [TS]

00:16:47   but what I would say is that the things you like about that type of game. [TS]

00:16:51   Exist in other games [TS]

00:16:53   and you shouldn't really be married to the genre like if you just like watching Murder Mysteries It's like what it what [TS]

00:16:58   is it that I like about murder mysteries. [TS]

00:16:59   Do I like the fact that someone gets killed [TS]

00:17:02   and I get the same thing out of a Harmon we do like the fact that this is Spence [TS]

00:17:05   and I could get it out of a different kind of thriller or am I just looking for a puzzle that I have to solve [TS]

00:17:10   and that I should be watching. [TS]

00:17:11   You know [TS]

00:17:11   and I'm on movies with a stupid twist I mean like what you were getting out of those games are things you enjoy systemizing [TS]

00:17:17   things micro-managing things you know do you enjoy like working the tech trees there's a lot of games you can play now [TS]

00:17:23   perhaps like a role playing game with a big crafting trian like character development you may be able to get the same [TS]

00:17:29   experiences out of different types of games or maybe that you just really like real time strategy [TS]

00:17:33   and he does the wait until something like that becomes popular again. [TS]

00:17:36   That's conceivable too [TS]

00:17:37   and he says the same thing in every other medium you know what kind of books are popular now what kind of movies are [TS]

00:17:42   kind of T.V. Shows I mean look at T.V. Program a lot of you are totally into for me like half an hour sitcoms. [TS]

00:17:49   They're so hard to find out just like everyone has to have some sort of twist [TS]

00:17:52   or angle in the one hour drama is you know hugely popular now. [TS]

00:17:56   The one hour drama was like an aberration you know twenty thirty years ago. [TS]

00:18:00   Now it's like everything has to be this gritty one hour drama like to make a show about Sleepy Hollow [TS]

00:18:03   and it's like this big gritty thing you know. [TS]

00:18:05   And whereas like the old sitcoms aren't they used to be everywhere now they're very rare [TS]

00:18:11   and each one of them has some weird twist about them so I think that's part of it [TS]

00:18:14   but I guess that gaming is not as broad as books movies or T.V. Is not yet anyway but it's getting close. [TS]

00:18:20   But there's probably something out there that you would get the same type of enjoyment out of [TS]

00:18:24   and who knows like maybe really go they don't make murder mystery movies anymore also [TS]

00:18:27   and you start going to see like you know goofy comedies you may find out. I never watch T.V. [TS]

00:18:32   Comedy where [TS]

00:18:33   but I really enjoy them so there's a lot out there you know the funny thing for me is to take this aside just a smidge [TS]

00:18:40   is that I find that I get really into certain games but only for a very small window of time [TS]

00:18:47   and most recently it's been I.O.'s games but the I think I mentioned last episode [TS]

00:18:52   or it might have that I played Metal Gear Solid through the whole way through I still love the Zelda games. [TS]

00:18:58   Well I played a green of time and I don't think I ever had whatever it was for the week. [TS]

00:19:03   But I'll find these games that I just are IM obsessed with some looking at my i Phone [TS]

00:19:07   and i only have a handful games on there but like you know right [TS]

00:19:09   when the i Phone came out I played the crap out of flight control for forever. [TS]

00:19:14   When the incident came out I loved that letterpress loved that tiny wings ramp champ by the icon factory which is a [TS]

00:19:22   much better game than anyone than a lot of people gave it credit for three days [TS]

00:19:26   when I came out recently saw all these games I just kind of madly in love with them and I'll play them to death. [TS]

00:19:32   Not only what I do when I find a song I just never looked back. [TS]

00:19:36   So I haven't played threes in like a month and I was playing it non-stop for two or three weeks [TS]

00:19:41   and maybe this is my personality but I know it's just the way I've approached seemingly. [TS]

00:19:46   You're in the middle of the letter President me as me K.C. [TS]

00:19:48   So any time you want to move six months I was that's a I've been hoping that that happened forever in fact it is bad [TS]

00:19:55   like I still do enjoy it when I open it but I just never think about it anymore. [TS]

00:20:00   And I think I heard Marco say that you're the same way like I get these obsessions [TS]

00:20:03   but then just as quickly as I get the obsession then it's done. [TS]

00:20:08   That's why I like with my limited time as an adult and a parent [TS]

00:20:11   and all the other stuff the type of game that I gravitate to are two kinds one is the kind I can to spend for a couple [TS]

00:20:16   of minutes of fun like whatever else is asynchronous turn based games like what aggressor or to friends [TS]

00:20:21   and three's even a single player you know it's like yeah whatever just some quick fun [TS]

00:20:25   and the other type of game I like is the kind kind of like the like to detective [TS]

00:20:30   or than the new popular thing of one hour dramas that have a season long arc that that ends [TS]

00:20:35   and then the cast changes as a couple shows doing that now [TS]

00:20:38   and that I think is a good model because people like I don't want to invest in the show that could go on some X. [TS]

00:20:43   Number of seasons I might not have a satisfying ending or whatever like where I met your mother or how to measure [TS]

00:20:49   and watch a show [TS]

00:20:51   but if people don't have a lot of time let's make it a one hour thing a one season arc that you will consume as a thing [TS]

00:21:00   and be satisfied with [TS]

00:21:01   and so the video games that are the non casual video games that I play are ones that are going to give me an experience [TS]

00:21:07   for a defined amount of time and it's not going to be open ended [TS]

00:21:10   and I'm going to play through it I mean not a side of their story based games whose journey is not really a story based [TS]

00:21:14   game that's two hours a game play in an out like that is the perfect you know it's cheap I can get a little download [TS]

00:21:21   amazingly enjoyable who may love two hours done and even something like The Last Of Us I think. [TS]

00:21:25   I don't memory I was bored I may be sixteen or eleven or twenty and I remember what the stat was [TS]

00:21:30   but that's a little bit longer [TS]

00:21:31   but it's a single player there's a multiplayer aspect that I don't care about single player game with a story I play it [TS]

00:21:36   has a beginning middle and end I'm done. [TS]

00:21:39   It's not like I feel guilty like I never go back to yeah I finished it I played the game like there is a it is a unit [TS]

00:21:45   of entertainment it just happens to be a longer unit than a movie [TS]

00:21:48   but actually a similar length to watching protective For example we are sponsored this week by our friends at fracture [TS]

00:21:56   fracture prints your photo in vivid color directly on glass. [TS]

00:22:00   They put everything you need to get your photo on the wall [TS]

00:22:02   or desk into the box they purchased are just twelve dollars for five by five inch print. [TS]

00:22:07   I've actually used these things so the script for a second. [TS]

00:22:13   I have fractured all over the place basically I'm looking at two right now [TS]

00:22:15   but my desk that are like roughly I don't know seventeen by twelve something like that [TS]

00:22:20   and then I have these app icon fractures up on the wall in my office for all the major apps that I've worked on [TS]

00:22:26   or built and I use little Five By Five such that twelve bucks for that is amazing [TS]

00:22:32   and it's nice it's like like you don't need a frame. In fact I don't think you even could frame them. [TS]

00:22:37   Well you could try but you don't need a frame it's just like the picture itself is printed on glass [TS]

00:22:42   and it is a complete product already so if you look into like buying a frame [TS]

00:22:46   or getting framed this is really a massive improvement in massive cost savings it looks nice looks modern [TS]

00:22:53   and the print quality is fantastic so well let me actually let me interrupt you I was at your house recently [TS]

00:22:58   and got to see fractures for the very first time. [TS]

00:23:01   I keep meaning to order wine or order several actually of my Instagram. [TS]

00:23:05   Some of my Instagram pictures but I can't for you can pick which one for one which is a personal problem [TS]

00:23:10   but anyway I saw the ones in your house and I expected to them. [TS]

00:23:13   I expected them to look good and they are even great and they worked better than great. [TS]

00:23:17   They really really really genuinely look awesome. [TS]

00:23:20   Yeah I am very happy with them as I keep even though like some of these I've ordered you know outside of coupon code [TS]

00:23:26   times and I still order them because I like them anyway. [TS]

00:23:29   So fracture every fractures handmade and checked for quality by their small team in Gainesville Florida. [TS]

00:23:35   See there isn't a whole lot of great stuff comes out of Florida but there's a definite of those things. [TS]

00:23:40   And Marilyn Of course this is the it's the thinnest lightest and most elegant way to display your favorite photo. [TS]

00:23:47   Now you can get twenty percent off by using coupon code A.T.P. [TS]

00:23:51   Which also lets them know that you came from the show so please do that. [TS]

00:23:53   Once again this is fracture go to fracture Me dot com and use Q one code. A.T.P. To get. Ninety percent off.. [TS]

00:24:01   Really fantastic stuff. Love their prince. Once again fracture Me dot com A.T.P. Thank you very much. [TS]

00:24:07   So we should take notes that we have finally the three of us figured out a design that we felt was worthy of printing a [TS]

00:24:16   T. Shirt mostly because we wanted to get it out for W D C Like all the cool kids do and we have honey and a tie. [TS]

00:24:24   So we have T. Shirts available for sale. [TS]

00:24:27   We're recording this on the last day of April twenty four teen [TS]

00:24:32   and they are going to be available for purchase until May eleven is that right. [TS]

00:24:38   Unlike that we had today they have a little over a week so we'll talk about this one more time [TS]

00:24:42   and only one more time on the next episode. [TS]

00:24:45   Near one thousand dollars they have basically a stylized version of our show art on the front [TS]

00:24:50   and a little surprise on the back and I don't know if you want to talk about that [TS]

00:24:53   or you want to leave it as a small surprise that's up to you Marco. I think you should check it out. [TS]

00:24:58   I think you should go to the family or other thing is T. Spring dot com slash accidental. [TS]

00:25:05   However we made a little shortcut in case you don't know how to spell T. Spring if you go to A.T.P. [TS]

00:25:11   Dot F.M.'s flash shirt it will redirect you to the A.T.P. Dot F.M. Slash shirt. [TS]

00:25:16   You must buy the shirt within the next roughly ten days or so [TS]

00:25:21   and after those hundreds of comes out in the eight days so hurry up and buy the shirt. [TS]

00:25:26   We've already sold a lot past the goal so this is awesome thank you very much [TS]

00:25:31   and so these will definitely be printed and made they will make it in time for the U.S. For W.D.C. Probably. [TS]

00:25:38   Internationally it depends on where you live. [TS]

00:25:41   We've heard reports of some of them coming right before some of them right after so we can really guarantee [TS]

00:25:45   internationally but in the U.S. They should be there in time to be ready See and. And yes so check it out. T. [TS]

00:25:54   Spring dot com slash accidental or A.T.P. That F.M. Slash shirt and keep in mind that. Since we are so. [TS]

00:26:02   The thought of it over us to pick a design that we like. [TS]

00:26:05   If we have shirts next year it's very likely that it will be a different design. [TS]

00:26:09   So even if you are some are living internationally [TS]

00:26:12   or can't are going to see it all anyway don't worry so much about whether you're going to get in time for this year's [TS]

00:26:18   day see if you order now you'll have it for next year and next year. Share it if there is one. [TS]

00:26:24   Will very likely be different so this may be the only time to buy the shirt. [TS]

00:26:28   You can decide whether that's a good or bad thing. [TS]

00:26:29   When you look at the shirt [TS]

00:26:30   but please do keep that in mind because tons of people keep asking me if they want to order a hypothetical shirts [TS]

00:26:36   and I did have a girl here at the ready and I'm not sure I'm doing them again any time soon if ever [TS]

00:26:42   and those people should've ordered when they were available herself I don't do this. [TS]

00:26:45   Haven't you order something they're available for sale. You know I also wonder for those who are international. [TS]

00:26:51   I have not tried this myself obviously [TS]

00:26:53   but I wonder if you could arrange with your hotel hey would you accept a package for me. And so on and so forth. [TS]

00:26:58   So you might even be able to get it delivered to your hotel. I know that is a possibility. [TS]

00:27:02   So I mean the hotels usually will charge for that. But I know I notice possible. [TS]

00:27:06   I did that one year to get a shirt delivered to convert to a hotel conference. But look into it anyway. [TS]

00:27:13   And also because so T. [TS]

00:27:14   Spring is kind of like Kickstarter where they have like you know the buying period for a limited time [TS]

00:27:19   and then they do the whole run at once. They print them all and that's it. You can order them after that. [TS]

00:27:24   So it is very unlikely I think that we'll get our act together and make a new design that we like in the next year [TS]

00:27:30   or so. So definitely if you want if you're anytime between now and next May you could probably buy this one. [TS]

00:27:38   All right thanks a lot. [TS]

00:27:41   OK so we were actually I was a little nervous about not having a lot to talk about on the show [TS]

00:27:47   and then just today Facebook decided to try their own hand at X. Callback U.R.L. [TS]

00:27:54   Which was surprising for me anyway so they came out with Facebook app links and I should. [TS]

00:28:00   We point out I guess it's the polls. [TS]

00:28:02   So what is it like it's not a subsidiary of Facebook it's enough milieu with what poll says [TS]

00:28:06   but I guess it came from there do you guys know what that is. OK good talk right. [TS]

00:28:13   So apparently some like subsection for lack of a better way of phrasing it Facebook [TS]

00:28:18   and they came up with appling says and so [TS]

00:28:22   when you guys put this in the show notes it's probably for the best if I read this very quickly quote This is from [TS]

00:28:27   their web site with uplinks Facebook wants to standardize deep linking to native apps by using special metadata. [TS]

00:28:33   attached seizing added via H.T.M.L. [TS]

00:28:35   The basic premise of Apple Inc is that if the user taps on a link on a mobile device [TS]

00:28:39   and that link belongs to a Web site that in turn offers the same content in a native app with better features than a [TS]

00:28:45   web view the link could automatically redirect the user to the app if installed on the App Store. [TS]

00:28:51   With support for deep linking to content inside the app the goal according to Facebook actually considers [TS]

00:28:57   and from the site anyway. [TS]

00:28:58   According to Facebook is to provide the best experience to user who clicks a link on a mobile device with features to [TS]

00:29:05   control what happens when a link is clicked on i OS Android or Windows Phone seven Frederica's right up actually. [TS]

00:29:10   Yeah I think OK so this I pasted in this paragraph like first light I saw this Facebook appling thing like fifteen [TS]

00:29:17   minutes ago so show stars I know very little about it [TS]

00:29:19   but I pasted in this thing because it sounds like something I would never ever want the idea that I'm on a Web site [TS]

00:29:26   and I tap on a link and it shoves me takes me out of the web browser puts me into an app [TS]

00:29:30   and shoves me into some deep thing in the apple example the video is like so you're on a Web site you see a movie like [TS]

00:29:35   human over the plain toward you tap on and the launch of the movie app [TS]

00:29:38   and takes me into there about like I know example that gets annoying to have to go back to the home screen launcher [TS]

00:29:44   taken by an app do the same search you just did on the web but like if I'm in a web site [TS]

00:29:48   and I found the thing I would like to buy it there on the web I hate being I hate that little band that comes down says [TS]

00:29:54   hey I know you're looking at our Web site the did you know we have a happy you could try that. [TS]

00:29:58   The whole idea that like the app. [TS]

00:30:00   Could provide better features than the web you look on the phone going to web browsing I'm doing stuff I want to do it [TS]

00:30:05   on the web I got nothing that native apps don't have a place [TS]

00:30:07   but if I'm never getting around the Web The last thing I want is to be chucked into an application deep linked [TS]

00:30:12   or otherwise so I do not like the idea of this thing like I'm assuming people commenting on this about like the [TS]

00:30:21   Internet communication thing that maybe I was told to do something about. [TS]

00:30:24   I was able do something about or whatever will people talk about that and I can show in the future I'm sure. [TS]

00:30:30   But that's about native apps talking to each other [TS]

00:30:32   and cooperating you know multiple native apps coordinating to get a single job done [TS]

00:30:37   and yeah I guess the web browser is one of those of the native apps but if I'm on a web page like [TS]

00:30:41   and I don't like unlike those two things being an I don't like switching between those two things I don't care how [TS]

00:30:47   coordinated they can be about where I jump back [TS]

00:30:49   and forth I question whether jumping out at all is ever the right thing to do. [TS]

00:30:54   Well generally speaking I would agree with you that if I'm in the browser it's probably a deliberate action [TS]

00:31:01   and I have [TS]

00:31:02   and I want to remain in the browser in the api enters whatever they're called at the top they just get away in a very [TS]

00:31:08   annoying especially in the case that the app is ready installed. [TS]

00:31:11   Maybe less so if you're trying to like advertise that you have an app in any case the one time where I think this makes [TS]

00:31:17   a lot of sense is if for example for some reason I've browsed something in Safari [TS]

00:31:23   and I end up on some really heavy media app lets take Spotify for example. [TS]

00:31:29   I'm probably going to want to listen to whatever the song or playlist or what have you is in. [TS]

00:31:34   Spotify is app rather than in mobile Safari so for things like that it makes sense [TS]

00:31:39   but other than that I tend to agree with you John. [TS]

00:31:42   I guess it's not the capability of it's bad so much as just as I see the potential for abuse in that if I was if there [TS]

00:31:48   was a big badge that was like open it up in insert name of native app here [TS]

00:31:52   and it was clear that's what it was going to do it sign. [TS]

00:31:55   But these Web sites these companies are so desperate to get you to install and use their apps. [TS]

00:32:00   I don't know why they're they just you know you better engagement with our Mike [TS]

00:32:03   and uncle's voice Brynn's like it's just annoying it's like I rather do you just make your website good [TS]

00:32:11   and I'll use your app if I want to [TS]

00:32:13   but like now if we give them the ability to make every single link a potential minefield it's going to take you out [TS]

00:32:18   into some native app. I'm not enthusiastic about this. Yeah I think definitely. [TS]

00:32:25   I totally agree that this has nothing to do with X. Called a U.R.L. [TS]

00:32:28   or An affirmation really that that's a different problem. I think there's a couple problems. [TS]

00:32:35   I agree with everything John said so far which is that you have you know there are probably some some conditions where [TS]

00:32:42   this is what you want what you want as a user [TS]

00:32:44   but there's also probably just as many if not more where it's not what you want as a user [TS]

00:32:48   and yet you could then prompt the user to ask what they want and that's more clunking as more complexity. [TS]

00:32:54   It's one of those things where I have a feeling the solve the problem. [TS]

00:32:57   Facebook thinks they have and they assume everyone else has the same problem but it doesn't really. [TS]

00:33:02   There's probably not a good problem to be solved in a good way here. [TS]

00:33:06   Furthermore I don't know how they could possibly get this to work very well because very effectively in the real world [TS]

00:33:13   because the most common little browsers are mobile Safari [TS]

00:33:16   and chrome is the one that are actually you know used for web browsing instead of sitting in a drawer [TS]

00:33:21   or playing videos and I don't see you know Apple. [TS]

00:33:26   There's almost no chance in hell they would ever implement this in the safari so that's out. [TS]

00:33:32   Any chance of like you know a plugin architecture a mobile Safari that would enable plugins for this is probably also [TS]

00:33:37   out. [TS]

00:33:39   Google is winning this in Croom maybe [TS]

00:33:41   but Google hates Facebook so I don't know if that's going to happen either you know what's in it for them probably [TS]

00:33:46   nothing. [TS]

00:33:47   Does this require browser support I mean reasonable to know where the requires browsers [TS]

00:33:51   or well in the documentation I read through all the documentation [TS]

00:33:54   and I didn't like it I don't think was very good I thought their examples were you know. [TS]

00:34:00   Examples are always contrived but these are crummy they were just crummy examples [TS]

00:34:03   but the way I understood it is if you tap a link in or if you end up on a page in a web browser including like a U.I. [TS]

00:34:16   Web view in say tweet bot for example then if you see all these meditates made attacks whether called at the top of the [TS]

00:34:23   of your document you can say oh I can build a U.R.L. [TS]

00:34:29   Based on the information in these meditates and make a check you know with the with i O. [TS]

00:34:34   West and say hey does this U.R.L. Is this a U.R.L. That you know about and if so just quietly. [TS]

00:34:41   Well I guess not so quietly actually redirect into the apps a salmon Tweeple I land on. [TS]

00:34:45   I'm using a browser in twee part I land on a Spotify page then tweet but can say Oh I see that there's this Apple Inc [TS]

00:34:53   or whatever it's called [TS]

00:34:54   and I see that Spotify is installed on Casey's phone so much punchier to Spotify that Marco did you read into this at [TS]

00:35:01   all. [TS]

00:35:02   No I actually spent about five minutes for the show looking at this because I think that is it for them so I could be [TS]

00:35:07   totally wrong on this. [TS]

00:35:09   Yeah I think that's the way I interpreted it and hopefully will either get a lot of e-mail saying I'm right [TS]

00:35:14   or a couple emails of the diagram on the site is the one it's like it works across you know Windows Phone [TS]

00:35:21   and Android and i OS and like right away. [TS]

00:35:25   Well Apple has no interest in this and the thing is of Apple has no interest in it [TS]

00:35:29   and I think as Rene tweeted us with a link to Rene and pressure no it's like doing this right. [TS]

00:35:35   See there there's a reasonable chance and I'm going to say a good bet [TS]

00:35:39   but there's a reasonable chance that Apple might have some similar type of thing having to do with maybe like a better [TS]

00:35:44   version of X. Callback You're really something. Whatever Apple decides to do this it remotely in this area. [TS]

00:35:49   That's what Apple's going to do that's what they're going to support [TS]

00:35:52   and that's what everybody on the highways platform is going to support making a cross-platform standard is so hard [TS]

00:35:57   when one of the vendors Apple is just going to ignore you. [TS]

00:36:00   Never like [TS]

00:36:01   and might potentially do its own thing because if Apple does don't think people will do whatever the hell I.O.'s [TS]

00:36:06   supports because it is still by far the most popular platform for games where people actually give you money [TS]

00:36:11   or for applications not just games but anyway. [TS]

00:36:15   Yes I totally expect Apple to ignore this and of Apple ignores it it's a non-starter for the app platform anyway [TS]

00:36:22   and that means it's never going to be cross cross Plus I know it's not been standard involves a lot of good looking out [TS]

00:36:26   assignment that like your best bet would be to get the support of Leica W three C. [TS]

00:36:31   Standard Zabol does support those but something coming from Facebook [TS]

00:36:35   and trying to solve their cross-platform development difficulties. Apple is just not interested in that at all. [TS]

00:36:42   That's not to say that any Apple is the one who had that stupid annoying dialog box [TS]

00:36:46   and I complained about the dialog box says hey download your app [TS]

00:36:50   but before they did that every individual Web site doing something even worse [TS]

00:36:54   and the client side javascript to do the same feature. [TS]

00:36:57   So really I'm mad at everybody who keeps trying to make their app out all Apple adding the feature to standardize it at [TS]

00:37:03   least standardize the annoyance [TS]

00:37:04   and makes it like it doesn't slow down the browser as much because it's no longer terrible client side jobs running [TS]

00:37:09   but it's no longer a model dialog box or some something they like animate [TS]

00:37:14   but they wouldn't use this accelerated animation so it would be like you know javascript redrawing. [TS]

00:37:20   It was bad yet so reading more on the teaches article quoting again. [TS]

00:37:26   Apps that implement appling so be able to scan a link that's been tapped by the user in a matter of seconds understand [TS]

00:37:32   weather can be opened inside a native app to deep linking fall back to a web view [TS]

00:37:36   or offer a way to download the app from the App Store so this corroborates what I was thinking earlier that you're in [TS]

00:37:40   tweet buy you land on some page it looks at the page's H.T.M.L. [TS]

00:37:44   and Says hey is there something I can do with this or not and then can handle it and dump you into the app in question. [TS]

00:37:51   I mean I guess that's nice [TS]

00:37:52   but to both your points without Safari supporting this I don't see how this is going to be that fantastic by the way it [TS]

00:37:59   does also. [TS]

00:38:00   There's a page fetch a requires it for eight let's say you've been an open Lincoln tweet [TS]

00:38:03   but it requires people to first fetch the H.T.M.L. Of the page. Parse it for these. [TS]

00:38:08   Look for these tags and then possibly offer you the option to redirect into an app for that [TS]

00:38:13   and that's that's pretty crappy. [TS]

00:38:15   Yeah the reason I put that quote in there that one they just read was not to give information about because I wanted to [TS]

00:38:20   shame the copywriter who wrote it was like it's a little bit like Apple inks will be able to scan a link that's been [TS]

00:38:27   tapped by the user [TS]

00:38:28   and comma in a matter of seconds comma understand whether it can be over in a matter of seconds I sure as hell hope not. [TS]

00:38:35   Like I know it's an expression [TS]

00:38:36   but like the copywriter is like this the wrong order of magnitude for how long it's going to really take this [TS]

00:38:41   cancelling thing you know is it really does take seconds there is a serious problem [TS]

00:38:45   when even the wording there scan a link that's not really true it's you know fetch the contents of a link [TS]

00:38:50   and then look at the contents to see if maybe you can open it I mean that's that's a different proposition. [TS]

00:38:54   I guess I don't see this being why they don't you know John as you said like if there's no chance that Apple can [TS]

00:39:00   implement this which I'm pretty sure that's the case then how much of a standard you know Facebook has a lot of this [TS]

00:39:06   like platform itis going on and they always have this is nothing new. [TS]

00:39:10   Where Facebook always comes out you know that Facebook and Apple both have their And Google for an Amazon of everyone. [TS]

00:39:15   They all have their own their own breed of arrogance and Apple's arrogance is well known and well documented. [TS]

00:39:22   Apple's arrogance is rushing to make their own thing in that you can make the standard if you want to. [TS]

00:39:27   Facebook's arrogance is we're going to launch these platform the standards are going to be useful [TS]

00:39:31   and implemented by everybody even when that's almost never actually the outcome to what they make [TS]

00:39:37   and almost always just serve them at best [TS]

00:39:40   and even they often abandon the things they make so you know it's I think this is this is a nice sounding story [TS]

00:39:47   but I don't see it being implemented by almost anybody important and certainly not widely enough to matter. [TS]

00:39:53   You know Facebook is not a trusted actor in this relationship right here because it's you know yes they're trying to [TS]

00:39:59   make an open stay. [TS]

00:40:00   But it's so clear that it's it is designed to solve a problem that Facebook has which is how do we deploy our [TS]

00:40:05   application on all the different platforms Apple does not have that particular problem [TS]

00:40:09   or at the very least has it in a very small version if they still make ideas for Windows beyond that they do not want [TS]

00:40:15   to deploy their software on every mobile platform. [TS]

00:40:18   So this isn't a problem they have and it's like why would we but we get on board with this thing that yes it's open [TS]

00:40:24   and trying to be standardized but it clearly exists to serve Facebook [TS]

00:40:27   and will probably evolve to continue to serve Facebook. If we're not sure that I you know that's of the three C. [TS]

00:40:34   The only thing [TS]

00:40:34   and even that is just like these big companies are all you know on the whatever in these in these working groups for to [TS]

00:40:40   really see at each other's throats trying to fight for the little details of you know what image elements going to be [TS]

00:40:45   used for multi resolution images on the web and whether we should support canvas and all of those stuff [TS]

00:40:50   and so that is a form in which they feel like it's a moral level playing field where all the big companies are are at [TS]

00:40:56   each other's throats trying to deal with web standards and whatever gets through more or less Apple implements [TS]

00:41:01   but Apple also does the thing where it proposes a standard then implemented and shipped it to millions [TS]

00:41:07   and millions of people and says well we already can implement to this [TS]

00:41:10   and everybody does that help you go I think maybe you should adopt it as a standard like it's not. [TS]

00:41:18   Yeah that's how standards work in the real world. [TS]

00:41:20   The sort of you know combine that around the campfire I think we're all going to get along type of thing I call [TS]

00:41:27   Facebook really to an open standard everyone should use it now. That's never what it's like. [TS]

00:41:31   So what is what is benefiting from Facebook by having a standard way with which to deep link into an app because that's [TS]

00:41:40   the essential premise behind this is not only that you can launch an app which everyone knows how to do reasonably [TS]

00:41:45   easily. [TS]

00:41:46   But here's a standard by which we define what data you're passing to that app [TS]

00:41:51   or that needs to be passed that appen order to get to the exact content you want. So what's the play for Facebook here. [TS]

00:41:57   Well it's pretty obvious it's for Facebook app it's so that. [TS]

00:42:00   You know if you look say you know Facebook obviously encourages sharing all their crap as much as possible. [TS]

00:42:05   Let's say you share in Lincoln something that goes to a Facebook property they want to be able to launch one of their [TS]

00:42:12   apps directly into that so that they control the whole experience on your show on their web page [TS]

00:42:17   or it goes right to their app and they get more information [TS]

00:42:19   or that it's faster for the user so they don't have to go to the web first. [TS]

00:42:23   They clearly want this for themselves I mean that's what they did. [TS]

00:42:26   Then Facebook just have I've seen tweets about it and they have like their little developer P.R. [TS]

00:42:32   Thing or some kind of that's called fifty eight hour God I didn't think of it that way. [TS]

00:42:38   Anyway like I did not watch the speech thing [TS]

00:42:41   but from what I've seen from Facebook in past months I'm going to pretend that I did [TS]

00:42:45   and pretend this is what they said [TS]

00:42:47   and I imagine that this is all part of the strategy that they have to stop being a single thing called Facebook which [TS]

00:42:54   is a Web site the you go to or more abstractly an application that you use through the web browser and other things [TS]

00:43:00   and start being a series of more special purpose applications circling around this giant hub of information they have [TS]

00:43:08   about everybody and so I I think like things like paper paper didn't replace the Facebook app. [TS]

00:43:16   It just kind of augment that I think what they want to make is a fleet of mobile applications for fleet of neighbors in [TS]

00:43:21   need of mobile applications that all cooperate in interoperate with each other and with them [TS]

00:43:24   and with the Facebook website to make one single unified Facebook experience [TS]

00:43:29   and that's why they want to deep link from paper into the official Facebook app from the Facebook website into whatever [TS]

00:43:35   other app they come out with like the idea that they're transitioning into all their anywhere a platform [TS]

00:43:40   and they want to be a different kind of platform where all these different pieces [TS]

00:43:44   and all these different platforms can all talk to each other and you know sort of cooperate [TS]

00:43:48   or in some ways it is kind of like indirect communication but they're all their data is on the web and in the cloud [TS]

00:43:53   and so they have to do their version of indirect communication is a way to basically deep link from one application to [TS]

00:43:59   another into the way. [TS]

00:44:00   It Out of the web so it makes sense for from what they wanted to why do they think they want to do it as an open [TS]

00:44:05   standard. [TS]

00:44:06   That's tends to be the way they do things [TS]

00:44:08   and I think they would be happy if it became commonly supported because then they would have some assurance that the [TS]

00:44:13   OAS or the Web browsers or whatever wouldn't change in a way that prevents their standard from working you know. [TS]

00:44:19   Yeah [TS]

00:44:20   and I guess I don't know it just at first I was like oh percent actually no this doesn't sound that after all it sounds [TS]

00:44:26   like a cool idea until you think about it a little bit or try to implement it [TS]

00:44:29   and start thinking about the realities of it and [TS]

00:44:32   and how Apple will never support a noble safari in everything I just it kind of falls apart under scrutiny I think [TS]

00:44:37   that's a very good way of phrasing it. [TS]

00:44:39   What else is cool these days are friends a back blaze we're also sponsored this week once again by back please. [TS]

00:44:46   I still pronounce into my head as backup was a I think it sounds fan. [TS]

00:44:52   Anyway they're awesome so Backley is online backup for five bucks a month. [TS]

00:44:56   It's a mac native app and I have five bucks a month gets you unlimited [TS]

00:45:00   and throttled uncomplicated backup you know we've talked a lot about the value of online backup here before [TS]

00:45:06   and in one of John's your response [TS]

00:45:10   or reads If you don't use this you're nuts I mean on the back it was amazing there's that there's an entire class of [TS]

00:45:16   problems hazards events where if you have a local clone a Time Machine backup like sitting in your office next to your [TS]

00:45:22   computer plugged in things like power surges lightning strikes floods fires that there's all sorts of of bad things [TS]

00:45:30   that can happen that would affect both the main computer and a backup if all you have is the one in your house and [TS]

00:45:37   and so all my backup takes care of that [TS]

00:45:39   and a whole bunch of other problems it's a fantastic solution I've been using it myself [TS]

00:45:43   and I've been using back plays for a couple years at least now very happy with it. [TS]

00:45:49   So they also have easily you can easily restore all of your file of course you can also easily restore just one file [TS]

00:45:56   right through the web interface. You also have an I.L.S. App that you can use to. [TS]

00:46:00   Access any of your backed up files and even share them if you want to. [TS]

00:46:04   There's also they just added email alerts so that you can say for instance like every every week [TS]

00:46:10   or two weeks that you know you saying all right this is the status here back here that we have we have this computer we [TS]

00:46:15   have this many gigs this is the last time I checked in it cetera so you can you can always you know be confident what [TS]

00:46:21   it's doing and you can of course also try to restore anything on the web whenever you want to to confirm that. [TS]

00:46:26   Also founded by X. Apple engineers it is a native application. [TS]

00:46:30   It's you know it's not some weird cross platform runtime thing it's a native application. [TS]

00:46:35   It's a new year a System Preferences those little menu bar thing it's pretty nice natively on back and I'm Mavericks [TS]

00:46:42   and it's also a P.C. Application as well. So there's a fifteen day trial with no credit card required. [TS]

00:46:47   You could enter an e-mail password and that's it. [TS]

00:46:50   And once again once you go to pay for it it's just five dollars per month per computer [TS]

00:46:54   and there's no gimmicks no add ons notational charges five bucks a month for unlimited [TS]

00:46:58   and throttled back up even get cheaper actually if you pay for a whole year. [TS]

00:47:03   So by far the simplest online backup to use just install and it does the rest go to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

00:47:09   To get going. Once again is back please dot com slash A.T.P. and I used to recommend it. [TS]

00:47:14   Thank you very much to that place from Georgia. So God help me but I'm about to bring up comics. Skip skip skip. [TS]

00:47:23   I actually don't really have that much to say about the comics ology Amazon thing [TS]

00:47:28   but I thought I should at least ask you too if you had anything to say to me it seems like everyone is acting selfishly [TS]

00:47:34   as expected and there's nothing here to real nothing here. No but what do you guys think. [TS]

00:47:39   I think Merlin covered a very well on back to work this week so it will be useless in that he did a really good job of [TS]

00:47:46   covering the the nuance of this problem I mean my I had a quick blog post about it [TS]

00:47:51   and I'm not going to rehash it here basically my opinion is that Amazon as the new owners are coming solid going to [TS]

00:47:58   doing what they always do the kind of. When the always do. [TS]

00:48:01   It's not really a surprise to anybody [TS]

00:48:02   and it shouldn't be a surprise anybody the Dems on that in a way they always do and it kind of sucks [TS]

00:48:07   but they have their reasons and that's it. [TS]

00:48:10   Whenever we talk about tech topics where there is something that upsets you know basically you know people who aren't [TS]

00:48:18   into following the tech industry and they get angry about it on Twitter [TS]

00:48:21   and there are blog posts of like that of this a couple different reactions that I see [TS]

00:48:27   and that are you know sort of reaction types. [TS]

00:48:31   One is easy one where people like people are part of his her particular company if they're like one company I don't [TS]

00:48:37   like another company whatever happens they're going to find out why this proves that Google is evil why this proves [TS]

00:48:41   that Apple is evil like whatever like that they have their favorite company they have become if they don't like [TS]

00:48:46   whatever happens those people come out of the work [TS]

00:48:48   and do that so you have people who are really the Amazon fans defending Amazon [TS]

00:48:52   and people who hate Apple's thing it's Apple's fault because you know that a straight up the other way as people are [TS]

00:48:59   trying to figure out what's really going on and saying well it's really nobody's fault [TS]

00:49:02   and it is kind of sort of trying to do the middle of the road type thing where they don't want to assign blame [TS]

00:49:09   but they're sad about it [TS]

00:49:10   and just like well just the way it is because everyone just has to be selfish kind of like a said before [TS]

00:49:15   and my reaction to it is always a little bit I don't know if it's it's less common [TS]

00:49:19   or people have my reaction just not read about it as much. [TS]

00:49:22   I kind of like a parenting angle where whatever company I like the best like in this case will be Apple right. [TS]

00:49:29   I know something bad will happen and I will decide that I'm very disappointed in the company that I like [TS]

00:49:35   and thumbs down instead of the company [TS]

00:49:39   and then taking out that is something I don't like it like oh well you know you are the company I don't like [TS]

00:49:44   and this is your fault instead I will say what is it that my company did to cause this to happen you know like [TS]

00:49:50   disappointed in my child like that I hold that I hold my children to a higher standard right is I don't care what other [TS]

00:49:55   kids are doing. Why were you involved in so I mean maybe that's not. [TS]

00:50:00   Real origin of the thing was just you know like the way I was thinking as I got my first reaction is always to blame [TS]

00:50:05   Apple is it because I dislike Apple. [TS]

00:50:06   No it's because I expect more of them you know I mean like that I have a high standard I'm disappointed in them. [TS]

00:50:12   Yeah and we should point out by the way what we're talking about in case anyone was living under a rock this week [TS]

00:50:17   and didn't realize what happened. [TS]

00:50:18   Comics ology the popular comic buying app for i OS especially i Pad It was bought by Amazon [TS]

00:50:24   and then like within a month they was on did basically just with the Kindle app does which is they removed the ability [TS]

00:50:32   for comics ology to purchase for a new comic issues [TS]

00:50:35   and that even our term comic issues I'm sorry my comics person so anyway I'm not sorry. [TS]

00:50:41   Anyway we removed it at purchase [TS]

00:50:44   and so now you have to like go out to the Amazon Web site separately by early cause all you have sight by is on by the [TS]

00:50:51   comics there and then go into the app and download them exactly where the Kindle app works [TS]

00:50:57   and that's almost entirely just to avoid paying Apple to thirty percent on the net on purchases [TS]

00:51:05   and Apple has a couple of rules that you know that you have to you know given the thirty percent on an emperor [TS]

00:51:11   and also that if you have a way on your site to for people to pay you without going through Apple for something that is [TS]

00:51:19   digital you can't advertise that in the app [TS]

00:51:22   and you can't link to it from the apps so you can't for instance like you can just have an app like a link in the app [TS]

00:51:28   that kicks you at a safari first second you enter your credit card stuff on on your site. [TS]

00:51:32   Avoid Apple's charge [TS]

00:51:34   and then kicks you back in the app that's that's no longer that was that was only allowed for two weeks [TS]

00:51:39   and they killed that so. [TS]

00:51:42   So the issue is obviously you know comics ology under Amazon [TS]

00:51:47   and as I did not want to keep paying Apple thirty percent [TS]

00:51:49   and many people are blaming Apple for this including John I guess many people are are blaming Apple saying well they [TS]

00:51:55   shouldn't be taking thirty percent or they shouldn't have that rule that you can't lie to your store [TS]

00:51:59   and that's certainly. You know something worth discussing and a lot of people are mad. [TS]

00:52:02   How much algae because they're ruining the experience here making it much more clunky to buy things [TS]

00:52:06   and probably losing a lot of impulse buys because what would happen I guess from what I've heard is that you get to the [TS]

00:52:12   end of a comic and it would ask you to buy the next issue and you could buy right there in start reading it [TS]

00:52:16   and you can't do that as easily anymore so that's probably going to impact sales [TS]

00:52:20   and only explain why blame out of this [TS]

00:52:22   and have planned out before it ever since to do the same thing with the Kindle app. [TS]

00:52:25   Way back when [TS]

00:52:27   and it's not about the takeovers it's about the big picture in the big picture is the technology exists to provide an [TS]

00:52:33   experience that customers like and not only just the customers like [TS]

00:52:39   but that actually is beneficial to the people selling the goods as well. [TS]

00:52:42   Like you said the ability to just write in the app impulse purchase comics every comic I've ever purchased in my life [TS]

00:52:47   with the exception of I think one flimsy paperback and I'm a comic. [TS]

00:52:51   Back when I was fifteen years old has been through the comic ology [TS]

00:52:54   and why because it is so ridiculously easy I'm not even in the cult I don't even like comics [TS]

00:52:59   but I've got the columns are the app and if you read one issue [TS]

00:53:01   and ever put the buttons that you want to be the next one [TS]

00:53:03   and put little present in whatever you tap the button like that the whole killer that is the killer app of the App [TS]

00:53:08   Store the fact that you can with your thumb go and the game goes you know it goes awry [TS]

00:53:13   and I mean it's that they don't think that the barrier to entry so low so technology exists for sure to do that [TS]

00:53:19   and the experience is really awesome for customers. [TS]

00:53:21   They love it [TS]

00:53:22   and it's usually pretty good for the people selling the stuff too because they sell more stuff because the barrier to [TS]

00:53:27   buying it is less. [TS]

00:53:29   Anything that prevents that from happening anything that says yeah we could do this and yeah it would be good [TS]

00:53:33   and all the sorts of ways [TS]

00:53:34   but I don't care what the bodice is about like well they have to get thirty percent of its there then [TS]

00:53:39   when I have a flat I don't I don't want to hear about the reasons. [TS]

00:53:41   All I know is this is technologically possible it is not financially infeasible but it doesn't happen [TS]

00:53:49   and so you say Well Apple's us through Amazon is choosing not to follow them it's Amazon's fault for doing that. [TS]

00:53:55   This is not just one occurrence I mean I guess Kendall is also Amazon as well but like a lot of the. [TS]

00:54:00   Don't have thirty percent to shave off to give the apple and he said well they used to pay way more than that brick [TS]

00:54:06   and mortar retail store if that's true as well. [TS]

00:54:08   We're supposed to be getting better over time in that like the the value you're getting out of being in the in the App [TS]

00:54:14   Store is that we're thirty percent of the relationship you have with a retail establishment even though they took more [TS]

00:54:20   off was much more complicated in terms of the English you know for books in the case of books being able to ship things [TS]

00:54:25   back and dealing with them in Torreon having remainders market [TS]

00:54:28   and like I would think that we would be having more efficiencies in this [TS]

00:54:32   and I'm not saying they should charge less than the thirty percent not saying they shouldn't charge their percent on [TS]

00:54:36   saying that it is in Apple's interest as the platform owner to figure out what they have to do to make it so there's a [TS]

00:54:42   good experience that is that is definitely a win win out over the win win win to use the you know the business beacon [TS]

00:54:48   of if everyone's going to be at least two of the three parties here are going to be happy with this they need to figure [TS]

00:54:53   out a way to make it happen and the second thing that annoys me about is the strategy tax thing [TS]

00:54:57   and that oh by the way did you know that Apple has a bookstore [TS]

00:54:59   and they pay themselves they were sent Don't worry it's you know that that seems like is that the reason they're not [TS]

00:55:06   doing because they want to promote my book so I don't think I haven't seen sells comics are probably on this case been [TS]

00:55:09   the Kindle Store really burns me that you know candle can you know it kinda want to sell their books inside out which [TS]

00:55:16   everyone who uses the Kindle app would love. [TS]

00:55:18   They've got to give Apple thirty percent [TS]

00:55:20   and really there is just I don't think this thirty percent hanging around to shave off of these things right [TS]

00:55:24   and so they I think it is crank up their prices by thirty percent [TS]

00:55:27   but then they have to match a store on the web store like all these rules that Apple set up are made to introduce [TS]

00:55:31   inefficiencies in the system to sort of force people to really use their system [TS]

00:55:36   and therefore not be able to offer people a discount for going to the Web site or don't use it [TS]

00:55:40   and people are choosing not to use it and you can say well they're playing hardball now. [TS]

00:55:44   Amazon's fault but at this point I think it's clear that Apple strategy of just holding the line at thirty percent [TS]

00:55:49   and saying nope are never going to you know that's going to be this way for everybody and that's it. [TS]

00:55:53   It's not working it's not making people it's having the opposite effect people aren't saying well what choice do we [TS]

00:55:58   have I guess we just got to do it because we want to get. Our customers a good experience and we get more sales. [TS]

00:56:02   The opposite is happening. [TS]

00:56:04   They're just opting out and if they think they're calling Apple's bluff [TS]

00:56:08   or whatever I think Apple called Apple needs to do something about it because we want to have you know I mean there are [TS]

00:56:15   so many other things that are as good an android. [TS]

00:56:17   But and really give you the option of not paying Google whatever percent if you use your own payment processor. [TS]

00:56:23   Right yeah. So on Android you can if you use Google they they charge of their thirty percent just like the others. [TS]

00:56:29   But there's no rule against using your own so you can build in your own mini a big upset [TS]

00:56:35   and I want to point out also Amazon [TS]

00:56:38   when they sell something they also tend to usually charge at least thirty percent on digital good session like for [TS]

00:56:46   smaller publishers for self published people they actually often charge more than thirty percent [TS]

00:56:51   and so this isn't like you know Amazon wants to give more to the authors. [TS]

00:56:56   It's more like Amazon just wants that thirty percent for themselves. [TS]

00:56:59   Well the others will get more but like [TS]

00:57:02   nor in very knowing how Amazon splits up its money because that is a whole separate issue of yes you can definitely [TS]

00:57:07   complain about Amazon they're not great about it you know like they want all the money for everything they want to sell [TS]

00:57:12   your stuff below cost [TS]

00:57:13   and give you nothing for they want to give your thing away free like Amazon does that's just talking about the [TS]

00:57:17   relationship between Apple [TS]

00:57:18   and everyone else because that's where the dysfunction is like we get if we could address this [TS]

00:57:22   and we could buy things inside the thing then the secondary disfunction be like OK well how much of this purchase price [TS]

00:57:27   after Apple gets its cut goes to the creator [TS]

00:57:30   or whatever so I think that's a little bit of a side show in a lot of people like Well this is better because some of [TS]

00:57:34   that thirty percent will go to the content creators and that's probably true [TS]

00:57:37   but that's not why I like Don't hang your hat on that is the reason we should be able to buy things I and I.I. [TS]

00:57:43   SAP It is an artificial situation brought on by a platform owner [TS]

00:57:47   and someone who wants to be in a platform butting heads and [TS]

00:57:51   and we are the loser the customers are the loser in this situation [TS]

00:57:54   and in the beginning it was like let's see how this shakes out [TS]

00:57:56   but now after all these years I think Apple needs to do something different. [TS]

00:58:00   I don't know what that different thing is everything you buy Amazon you know brain is a different thing you. [TS]

00:58:05   You lower your percentage you come up with a different kind of deal like because consumers are suffering for it [TS]

00:58:09   and that I think is the primary response addles like oh we just care about making great products. [TS]

00:58:15   It is not a great product when I can't buy cando book Inside the Kindle app is just not well. [TS]

00:58:19   So yeah I disagree on this point on that the idea that Apple has to do something that Apple is somehow you know losing [TS]

00:58:26   here or they have to mean there's there's one side of this that's untitled [TS]

00:58:29   and argument I don't think is entirely fair one side of this is you know well we should we will do whatever we want on [TS]

00:58:35   this computing platform because we're able to do whatever we want on Macs and P.C.'s [TS]

00:58:39   but the reality is like you know I.I.S. [TS]

00:58:42   Is get it's mostly like a computer platform and [TS]

00:58:46   but you know there's no third party software that doesn't go to the App Store unless you jailbreak So that's literally [TS]

00:58:51   can. [TS]

00:58:51   But this isn't a technical issue this isn't a safety issue this isn't a technical issue this is an ease of use it is [TS]

00:58:57   like it's a capability thing that we know is possible it's a bit it's an artificial business constraint. Well sure. [TS]

00:59:02   But OK so this is this is only a contentious issue because Iowa is the dominant tablet platform for people who buy [TS]

00:59:11   things and read them on tablets that they also use for anything else in the world. [TS]

00:59:14   So what if the dominant portable computing platform was you know what if it ended up differently. [TS]

00:59:21   What if the dominant tablet or the dominant portable computer platform was the Sony P.S.P. [TS]

00:59:26   or What if it was the Kindle you know then you look at the Kindles. [TS]

00:59:32   No one ever had apps on that I mean they had a quick little Katie Katie thing that died thank God it was to have data [TS]

00:59:37   best. You know you could make after the Inconel Apple could not make i Books for the candle. [TS]

00:59:44   Apple probably also could make i Books for the P.S.P. [TS]

00:59:47   As a game console game console work very differently similar to how the app store works. [TS]

00:59:51   Although probably on worse terms of imagine [TS]

00:59:53   and so you know there's you look at other types of computer vices that aren't just P.C.'s and Macs. [TS]

01:00:00   Other Other times you can hear devices that are you know owned by one company that are kind of vertically integrated [TS]

01:00:05   etc They don't they work usually the same way that Apple does with the same kind of rules [TS]

01:00:10   or more restrictive where they take bigger cuts. [TS]

01:00:13   So [TS]

01:00:14   and including one of Amazon's own platforms it is very very popular because the Inconel platform so I don't really think [TS]

01:00:21   that it's that Apple has to do anything here or that the necessarily unjustified or there [TS]

01:00:27   or that they're being excessively greedy. I really don't. [TS]

01:00:29   So your argument is that because other people do bad things Apple is also entitled to do bad things. [TS]

01:00:34   No my argument is that you as as Company X. or As individual X. [TS]

01:00:40   You are not entitled to access Apple's customer base on your own terms that you dictate. [TS]

01:00:47   But it's not it's not there it's not the Amazon that has the entitlement I'm having the entitlement of the customer. [TS]

01:00:51   I'm supposed to be the one that Apple is serving like they're they're reducing the value of their products to me [TS]

01:00:56   through this fight that they're having with Amazon over this like the Amazon is certainly certainly not entitled to [TS]

01:01:01   access Apple's cuz that's the whole but the whole fight is over like those two companies are fighting [TS]

01:01:04   but we are the losers we are caught in the middle [TS]

01:01:07   and a certain point us being the losers affects Apple more than it affects Amazon than as I can go anywhere [TS]

01:01:13   and selling to whoever them of the UN cares much less about who the winner is in that whatever space than Apple does [TS]

01:01:19   because Amazon will promise us we'll try to get you to buy. [TS]

01:01:23   Yes they have their own platform too [TS]

01:01:24   but that's not like they're shunning I.O.'s Android they will still sell where they want to sell it's us losing [TS]

01:01:31   and I was willing to give it a couple years like to see how it would shake out. [TS]

01:01:36   But if for example Apple had become ridiculously dominant like they were had ninety percent market share [TS]

01:01:41   and everything. [TS]

01:01:41   Maybe Amazon What a loss this one maybe they would have gone back to selling in the app [TS]

01:01:45   but it didn't work out that way and so I now I think it's time it's time to readjust. [TS]

01:01:50   I see I just don't see that pressure being that strong an apple here. [TS]

01:01:55   I think Apple is not fulfilling its responsibility as a platform owner to me. [TS]

01:02:00   It's products the best they can be for its customers in the long term not just the short term. [TS]

01:02:04   Well I guess that I was willing to give them a year or two to play hardball and see how it went. [TS]

01:02:08   But it is going badly for them and I blame Apple because they're my child I will disagree that it's going badly [TS]

01:02:15   but also one more thing I think Apple could probably look at this from another angle [TS]

01:02:20   and say you know you can't if you're proposing a change to abstract policy you can't just look at it as what with what [TS]

01:02:27   would like good implementations do with that what would good people do with that you know how would that be used well [TS]

01:02:33   if they also look at it as how would that be used terribly How would that be used by scanning people by crappy [TS]

01:02:38   companies like King like how how would that be used by terrible people and terrible companies [TS]

01:02:44   and if allowing other purchased systems that Apple does not run would also introduce a huge risk of an erosion of trust [TS]

01:02:55   in the payment system by bad actors like you know big game companies with purchased scheme stuff like that like bad [TS]

01:03:04   actors having their own credit card and put things in their apps that then behave badly. [TS]

01:03:09   But who is suggesting that though no one is suggesting that. Well so also that's you know one of the options. [TS]

01:03:14   There's a couple options to solve this. [TS]

01:03:16   One of the options is to reduce Apple's cut let's say they've cut in half to fifteen percent do you think that would [TS]

01:03:21   change anyone's mind. [TS]

01:03:22   I'm guessing not let's say all the rules are the same [TS]

01:03:25   but the cut goes down the most feasible option for feeling like what's a practical solution [TS]

01:03:29   when you actually want them to do two things one on it I think aside they should make it possible for someone with it [TS]

01:03:35   where the catalog volume the size of conduct ology let alone Amazon itself if there's any limit. [TS]

01:03:40   Amazon is going to hit it with like you know an Amazon dot com for example you know like that sells everything that [TS]

01:03:45   Milan sells because their catalogs mess. [TS]

01:03:47   But anyway make sure that's all set make sure you have a system in place [TS]

01:03:52   and then what I would change about it is it's ridiculous that they have this hard line thing where it's got to be [TS]

01:03:57   seventy thirty with everyone cut a deal with them with. [TS]

01:04:00   I think it's not insane like oh it's unfair why did they get a special deal because they're Amazon dot com You're not [TS]

01:04:07   Amazon dot com You get a different deal I don't think that's unreasonable [TS]

01:04:10   and Apple seems so tied like it's seventy thirty and never changes every street equally is not nice [TS]

01:04:15   and fair for everybody. [TS]

01:04:17   It stops being a ten of a strategy [TS]

01:04:20   when your consumers are made to have worse experiences because of I don't know what crazy principle that you want like [TS]

01:04:25   you know each individual apple developer to feel fair I don't think it's unreasonable to cut a deal with them about [TS]

01:04:31   figure out what you have to do. [TS]

01:04:32   The terms that you don't even need to be public I don't care what Amazon and Apple have to do to [TS]

01:04:37   or with each other behind closed doors deal to happen. Just do what you have to do. If someone complains. [TS]

01:04:44   Hey Amazon getting a special deal when you get to be the size of Amazon [TS]

01:04:47   and then you'll get a special deal too like is that crazy in my my breaking secret rules of the App Store by suggesting [TS]

01:04:54   this insane idea. Well it would be breaking with a lot of precedent. [TS]

01:04:58   Historically Apple has generally very consistently enforce the same rules for everybody big and small [TS]

01:05:06   and much of the big companies chagrin and a lot of cases [TS]

01:05:09   but they generally do not negotiate major exceptions to rules like that even with companies big in Amazon or Facebook [TS]

01:05:17   or the New York Times very point that they really have not done that and I agree they have [TS]

01:05:21   and I think it's only that they haven't. [TS]

01:05:23   See I don't know I mean there is you know a lot of the App Store [TS]

01:05:27   and a lot of its problems honestly are because of this this kind of like almost sort of mostly democratic system that [TS]

01:05:36   it has often been [TS]

01:05:38   or it is in a lot of respects like the top list is you know famously minimally filtered you see like crabby scam out of [TS]

01:05:46   there all the time because they're not really monitoring it that closely [TS]

01:05:50   and you know it's worth arguing whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. [TS]

01:05:53   But but most for the most part the app store is run on a pretty level playing field. [TS]

01:06:00   Where big companies are not allowed to break rules that small companies can't also break [TS]

01:06:06   but not breaking a rule if you if you have a deal like the anger in the chatter about this is a dress a couple of [TS]

01:06:11   things then to me says they really think that of Amazon is given a better deal they will automatically pass the money [TS]

01:06:16   to the counting prints Not course not I didn't say that down that anyone said that. [TS]

01:06:19   Again we're not talking about Hamelin demise of the money there's a whole separate issue that's totally not what I'm [TS]

01:06:24   talking about I don't know what Amazon would do with a probably not because that's not how they work [TS]

01:06:28   and then people feel like comparing it to like bribes and corruption. [TS]

01:06:32   This is it's a business relationship when you win when Apple is buying parts from someone who makes like screens [TS]

01:06:39   or widgets or whatever. They negotiate a deal to buy those screens. [TS]

01:06:42   They get a better price than you do if you want to buy ten of them. [TS]

01:06:44   That's business of bribes [TS]

01:06:46   and corruption is just how business works you get volume discounts if you're going to drive a certain amount of [TS]

01:06:50   business you get a better deal. [TS]

01:06:51   I don't think that's corruption or bribe that's that's just that's just how business works. [TS]

01:06:56   It's a contract [TS]

01:06:56   and no one else is entitled to see how much sense I'm paying you for screen that would not entitle to see that. [TS]

01:07:01   Like that's individual contracts with businesses. [TS]

01:07:05   Someone's bring up anti trust Apple doesn't have the market share in any market to be even remotely considered trendy [TS]

01:07:12   trust except of the crazy people who are going to say that Apple has a monopoly on Apple computers I love that one that [TS]

01:07:17   never gets old if you know it I understand why you want to have uniform rules [TS]

01:07:24   and that's a good idea right up to the point where it seems like there's some sort of problem here there is definitely [TS]

01:07:28   a problem. [TS]

01:07:30   And like maybe they could never come to the like of a can come to a deal they can come to a deal [TS]

01:07:34   but as far as any of us are aware they've never even considered this is an option I mean another example is they hell [TS]

01:07:41   they held the line on I imagine a lot of the rumors about like Microsoft in office and why isn't Office available. [TS]

01:07:47   Michael doesn't want to give Apple thirty percent of its software sales right. [TS]

01:07:50   And so that went on for a long time till vengefully Microsoft blinked and produce office [TS]

01:07:55   but they found a way to do it without giving up a cut because you have to sign up for office three sixty five. [TS]

01:08:00   No father Wait is that true. [TS]

01:08:01   I thought they were giving up on the car if you bought in the app for the for the subscription you mean I thought it [TS]

01:08:06   was a little of both I thought that the way that Microsoft hopes you go is you already have an office three sixty five [TS]

01:08:13   subscription you got on your own accord. [TS]

01:08:15   But I believe Marco you're also right that there is an inapt purchase of some capacity that Apple does get a cut of the [TS]

01:08:23   like the thing I was talking about early on was Microsoft Office will be available for the i Pad will be ninety nine [TS]

01:08:28   dollars Apple will get thirty percent of that and that's not Microsoft it's not what happened. [TS]

01:08:32   You know like they have the subscription model [TS]

01:08:35   and they're free right to free download it so that that is you know it's a different mind elation strategy as opposed [TS]

01:08:43   to simply selling office at a premium price and giving ample time to send it right off there [TS]

01:08:47   and like in that case there would be no way to get office without paying Apple thirty percent [TS]

01:08:51   and now there is a way download a free app go to Microsoft's website where they offer you the same price as you know [TS]

01:08:56   purchase and even that took a long time to figure out. [TS]

01:08:58   I think customers didn't really lose out on that one and I think Apple kind of won that battle [TS]

01:09:03   but the battle over an application through which you naturally want to buy things and consume them right in them. [TS]

01:09:09   Apple's not winning that battle for whatever reasons and I think something should be done about it [TS]

01:09:13   and I mean thus far because Google is so incompetent and Varia [TS]

01:09:17   and has not been able to penetrate the market people are like will screw up on was going to get an android because [TS]

01:09:22   you're not like I think I've had to go back. You know again I think it's apples still. [TS]

01:09:28   Maybe that's what they think they're like we're still in the driver's seat eventually will win this [TS]

01:09:31   but there's a lot of years of suffering have gone on already with the Kindle app [TS]

01:09:34   and it's just going to the comics ology is is a drop in the bucket [TS]

01:09:37   and we just see a lot of it because you know we know people who read comics and are angry about it [TS]

01:09:42   but I think it is a way of a type that will continue coming up until someone figure something out. [TS]

01:09:48   So what about this as a proposed alternative. [TS]

01:09:52   So the Times in which we all get bitter about the thirty percent seem to be as so far as I can tell. He's selling. [TS]

01:10:01   So Amazon or comics ology is reselling the the comics in their app. [TS]

01:10:07   What if Apple announced that hey if you come to us [TS]

01:10:11   and can prove to us that you're a reseller then we'll drop the fee to fifteen percent or something like that. [TS]

01:10:17   And so for things like games where you're not really reselling anything and then you still pay the thirty percent [TS]

01:10:24   and you can't just make a shell company [TS]

01:10:26   and say yes I promise that the shell company isn't me you have to actually go to someone in Apple [TS]

01:10:31   and prove to them by whatever means they want that you are simply reselling [TS]

01:10:37   and you are not providing your own original content [TS]

01:10:39   and thus it's not it's not reasonable to give Apple thirty percent you will give them the lower tier cost [TS]

01:10:46   but you don't need to think that hard about this you can do think if you're so stuck on doing uniform rules [TS]

01:10:50   or you just like volume discounts if you sell X. Amount of dollars we get X. [TS]

01:10:54   Percent and if you know ten billion dollars I mean like there are plenty like it which Microsoft does that. [TS]

01:10:59   These are not like new technologies in the world of business like this our business is work forever is just of the apps [TS]

01:11:04   the App Store is the aberration. [TS]

01:11:05   Can we apply this uniformly to everybody [TS]

01:11:07   and not have any variability for volume so that if you sell three in purchases for virtual coins versus thirty billion [TS]

01:11:13   in purchases you get exactly the same percentage and I think in being endeavour and you know the like [TS]

01:11:18   and it's only a problem until like it's making your platform worse to deploy applications on the Kindle app is worse on [TS]

01:11:24   i OS in this respect than it is on other platforms that allow purchase [TS]

01:11:28   and comics ology just got worse because the previous company that owned it was going to bite the bullet [TS]

01:11:33   and give the thirty percent surely shaving its margins [TS]

01:11:36   and potentially also showing how much money go to kind of creators [TS]

01:11:39   but who cares they were willing to do this because that was how they got traction they got enough traction the guy [TS]

01:11:43   bought of Amazon from a Sun doesn't need traction Amazon is Amazon dot com So yeah they take with everything because [TS]

01:11:48   when I was on does it's not like I'm saying Amazon is the scorpion here it's like well it's in its nature it's going to [TS]

01:11:54   do that like I think I was on those play evil things too. [TS]

01:11:57   On thinking about it why is the platform that I use on my tablet. [TS]

01:12:00   Getting worse for me to do things I like to do on it and I just want it to be worked out. [TS]

01:12:05   Marco before you jump in I just like to point out I understand the scorpion reference I said I'm going to have a [TS]

01:12:10   critical and you listened you know John you're you're assuming that Apple needs to address this [TS]

01:12:16   and you're in your position you're arguing that it is an assumption you're you're arguing that Apple needs to fix this [TS]

01:12:22   and I just don't see the urgent need and I think the Kindle app being this way for so long I mean it's been what four [TS]

01:12:29   or five years to probably three or four years of the going to have been this way. [TS]

01:12:34   That's been there long enough and it doesn't seem to really be affecting Apple sales or customer satisfaction. [TS]

01:12:41   You know overall it doesn't seem to be that that you know Apple's really like being held to the fire here that they [TS]

01:12:48   really have to change this. [TS]

01:12:49   I don't I don't see the big push I don't see why they would have to do any of these things why they [TS]

01:12:54   and by the way I think lowering their cut too. [TS]

01:12:57   Anything would not please Amazon I think Amazon wants to own the whole experience [TS]

01:13:00   and the whole processing of anything that is potentially right. [TS]

01:13:03   But then but at that point I could stop blaming Apple and say Well Apple offered them my point or one percent [TS]

01:13:08   and it's all rejected it's like all that viable holding. [TS]

01:13:10   Yeah I mean honestly I really do think [TS]

01:13:13   and if I want to own the entire customer process not just that commission they want they want everything to be going [TS]

01:13:19   through them only and so they have full control and full access [TS]

01:13:22   and I really don't think that a rate cut would do it for them. [TS]

01:13:26   Well the idea that like they don't need to do it because like well they've been doing it for years and Kindle [TS]

01:13:29   and it hasn't hurt them right. [TS]

01:13:30   It's difficult to tell or hasn't heard them [TS]

01:13:32   but like the one thing I would point to that like a metric to say well maybe they would have sold more i Pads of you [TS]

01:13:38   could have bought they like a hard to prove like rarer [TS]

01:13:40   but the one thing you can point to is gold Tim Cook's favorite customer sat kind of them [TS]

01:13:44   or sat around people who read comics has suddenly gone down I can tell you that and I think customer [TS]

01:13:49   and then can go up [TS]

01:13:50   and didn't have a deal like customer sat on people who use the Kindle app would go you know WAY higher for their i Pad [TS]

01:13:56   that they could buy things trip you think about that like some people. [TS]

01:14:00   They consider their i Pad like it's my comic reading device [TS]

01:14:03   and like that's what they use for I bet there are people out there who can settle their Kindle reader [TS]

01:14:06   and if suddenly those people could buy the things like they got to the end of series one of the book series [TS]

01:14:11   and it was a little page at the end of the Kindle day [TS]

01:14:12   and said Do you want to start writing the next one tap the button you tap the button a little spinner pay for two [TS]

01:14:17   seconds and you're reading the next book. [TS]

01:14:18   Their customer sat with their i Pad would go up like that is a metric that you can track that they talk about a lot [TS]

01:14:25   that they should be watching. [TS]

01:14:26   Is it causing people to not buy pads I don't like maybe Customer satisfaction is disconnected from their bottom line in [TS]

01:14:33   big ways [TS]

01:14:34   but they do care about it because that's their whole thing is like we're trying to make great products that make people [TS]

01:14:37   happy. [TS]

01:14:38   And here's a case where they're intentionally choosing not to do something that they know make people happy because of [TS]

01:14:43   a fight they're having with a competitor about pricing and I so I guess that it's OK to do that for a while [TS]

01:14:48   but the way it shaking out doesn't seem like Amazon is going to budge [TS]

01:14:51   and you know customer satisfaction with these experiences they're still not going up to the level they know it could be [TS]

01:14:57   or going down in the cases where applications of the backslide. [TS]

01:15:00   So assuming that there's no rate change that could get Amazon to actually accept that [TS]

01:15:05   and do everything directly through apple assuming that the only thing that would allow them to offer an app purchases [TS]

01:15:11   on Apple's platforms in a way that Amazon would approve would be to do a Google allows which is to just have their own [TS]

01:15:17   payment processing in the app that you know an apple would just remove the rule that you can't do that. [TS]

01:15:23   Do you think the net gain from that in overall Apple ecosystem customer satisfaction assuming that anybody else could [TS]

01:15:30   do that same thing assuming that you had said earlier like assuming that you know King could put their own payment [TS]

01:15:36   system in candy crush to make thirty percent more and that any random After put their own credit card system in [TS]

01:15:40   but you keep you keep going back to your own payment system No the suggestion that I would never suggest that people be [TS]

01:15:45   able to do their own payment systems. [TS]

01:15:47   So you're basically putting forth the idea that Apple should negotiate a lower rate with Amazon [TS]

01:15:52   and then Amazon would probably accept a lower rate. [TS]

01:15:54   It's not just Amazon like Sam is on a hard place hardball like we will give you a red cent. You'll never get any of it. [TS]

01:16:00   Thing I think if you don't you know if for example Amazon's policy was if you don't let us implement our own payment [TS]

01:16:05   then screw you [TS]

01:16:05   and then I would say that Apple interest not to say well you implementing your own payment system would make it worse [TS]

01:16:11   for our customers so it's not actually we're not going to be a customer so I news ever get it [TS]

01:16:15   but then that would mean like Marvel unlimited knowledge other like comics knowledge you had white label versions are [TS]

01:16:20   absolute people going to work out now that I was on to them [TS]

01:16:22   but there's a potential for other people in the market to say well we'll do a deal for the people who own these comics [TS]

01:16:27   and we will sell comics electronically and we will let you buy them from within our app [TS]

01:16:31   and you would see the people who are into comics they will screw comics all the I'm not using them anymore you can even [TS]

01:16:35   buy into the app I'm going to this other thing I'm going to description plan like those ones where you pay a monthly [TS]

01:16:39   fee and you can read X. Number of comics like a competition. [TS]

01:16:43   Hopefully in the realm of comics maybe not in the realm of books [TS]

01:16:46   or anything else would make it so that other people would spring up [TS]

01:16:48   and say well you're not willing to pay Apple two percent but I think two percent of the reasonable transaction fee [TS]

01:16:52   and we're going to pay it and now everyone going to come to our unknowns going to buy three [TS]

01:16:55   or think of it I want to go to a Web site to buy stuff I'm looking at you know just what effect these kind of decisions [TS]

01:17:01   would have on the entire ecosystem and on all developers who and all users of it [TS]

01:17:06   and I don't I don't see a scenario here where Apple could make a change that would be that would dramatically improve [TS]

01:17:14   the situation with Amazon stuff and would would be a net benefit [TS]

01:17:19   and you know wouldn't have too high a cost in users as I think you know even ignoring the money Apple would lose on [TS]

01:17:25   that reduced or last commission. [TS]

01:17:29   I don't see this is being a net when I see you know bad people taking advantage of it [TS]

01:17:34   and an erosion of trust in buying i OS apps and paying for things i O. S. [TS]

01:17:37   Which should reduce customer satisfaction but that people do it with a reduced rate based on volume [TS]

01:17:43   or otherwise you get a reduced rate that's that's something that I think would probably only negatively affect Apple [TS]

01:17:50   but I also don't like I don't see Amazon taking that deal and you're right maybe someone else will [TS]

01:17:55   and maybe you know maybe that'll be the situation but see I just I don't I don't see the big. [TS]

01:18:00   Need for this I mean you know people or people are mad. [TS]

01:18:02   This week they'll be over next week [TS]

01:18:05   and even now most of the anger is going to comics all Juda Amazigh Apple's not even getting hit by most of it. [TS]

01:18:10   Yeah [TS]

01:18:10   but the customer satisfaction with their i Pad goes down they're less satisfied with their product I mean like maybe [TS]

01:18:15   it's like that doesn't reflect on Apple maybe they blame comics ology But what if they next time there they need to buy [TS]

01:18:20   a tablet. [TS]

01:18:21   By then they have long since heard that this isn't a problem on Android and they read you know comics there [TS]

01:18:26   and can buy them right in the app. [TS]

01:18:27   Maybe that will change their decision like it's small but you know these little things add up. [TS]

01:18:32   Books I think is bigger the Kindle app is bigger [TS]

01:18:34   and they cannot have the advantage that I'm pretty sure you can never buy them [TS]

01:18:36   and so the collapse was not going to be was ever taken away [TS]

01:18:39   but if people find out that oh if you get a Kindle Fire you can buy was in the app that may attract them [TS]

01:18:43   or to rekindle fire especially if they start using a tablet mainly as a Kindle device. [TS]

01:18:47   I feel like it [TS]

01:18:48   and you want to said this earlier because the I for me was Mark because the i Pad is so much better than everything [TS]

01:18:54   else on the market I don't think that customer sat will be influenced negatively enough to level the playing field. [TS]

01:19:04   I think you're probably right and that's what Apple is counting on to build these little things add up [TS]

01:19:08   and I was going to send you a chair [TS]

01:19:09   and says that the white label versions of comics ology are keeping their in that purchase [TS]

01:19:13   but like I said now that Amazon owns them I wonder how long those white label versions of comics ology Apple are going [TS]

01:19:19   to be in the world at all but clearly the people who are currently using them. [TS]

01:19:23   I think the companies that put out the comics themselves actually white label them those people are highly motivated to [TS]

01:19:28   get away for a people with I O. S. [TS]

01:19:30   Devices to be able to easily buy their comics [TS]

01:19:33   and apparently there they have been willing to pay a thirty percent I assume they will continue to be willing to buy [TS]

01:19:37   thirty percent [TS]

01:19:38   and that could be a way that Apple quote unquote wins this one by basically saying well no more you can't college [TS]

01:19:43   anymore we'll still get thirty percent and thirty percent from these other people instead. [TS]

01:19:49   That's that's potentially true as well. Like I'm just tired of the game of chicken. [TS]

01:19:53   I feel like it's gone on for too many years [TS]

01:19:56   and I don't want to see I don't want to see ads coming on to the platform and just. [TS]

01:20:00   We're all just him of course you can't buy within the application of course you have to do the dance to go through a [TS]

01:20:03   website and like a little some can look at going to ask me Grampa why why can't I buy things inside applications. [TS]

01:20:10   They well ten decades ago three decades ago I wrote I can't do math anymore than old Apple decided that they want to [TS]

01:20:18   charge everybody thirty percent and everyone else aside they were going to pay it [TS]

01:20:21   and Apple still makes the best tablet that we have to do this because of a fight between these giant corporations. [TS]

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01:22:14   So we done in the comics thing that we don't have anything to say about. [TS]

01:22:17   I didn't listen to the Back To Work episode yet I'm still behind so I don't know if Marilyn had to say about it [TS]

01:22:21   but sorry if I repeated I mean the stuff that he said he mostly took the kind of middle moderate ground of like this is [TS]

01:22:28   all more complicated than we understand [TS]

01:22:29   and you know we kind of shouldn't be making assumptions like we understand everything going on with these big companies. [TS]

01:22:34   OK Well yes we did overlap although we did talk about like you know I tried as glamorous as far as we know because who [TS]

01:22:40   knows like what overture is any one company is making the Apple who knows what response Apple making to them we just [TS]

01:22:45   know these people are out publicly [TS]

01:22:47   and what they end up doing I don't think this is this issue is going to be resolved in time soon between you know Apple [TS]

01:22:52   with their thirty percent rules and they're no less Journal payment processing rules versus Amazon [TS]

01:22:58   and their desires versus customers and their experience I just you know the Kindle app has been this way for years [TS]

01:23:03   and it's and has not budged [TS]

01:23:06   and neither side has budged at all so I don't I don't see that changing for a very similar applet the same parties [TS]

01:23:13   involved that has a much smaller audience. [TS]

01:23:15   I just don't see it changing the volume discount thing has the advantage that it lets everybody pretend that they [TS]

01:23:20   didn't budge because Apple can say well we still apply the same rules to everybody. [TS]

01:23:25   People say well we were going to do a but we got Apple to change the rules [TS]

01:23:27   and now you know because what the what that encourages is you're encouraged to drive more business through Iowa sell [TS]

01:23:35   tons of crap because the more stuff you sell the lower percentage goes and so that would let everybody save face [TS]

01:23:41   and like you said maybe it wouldn't bring out of them back to the table [TS]

01:23:44   but even if you ignore Amazon if they're going to be buts about it then fine. [TS]

01:23:48   Tons of other people be like oh now I am much more highly motivated to figure out a way to sell goods through the app [TS]

01:23:54   store because I like if I just saw a little bit I find if I sell tons of them as a percentage that gets taken goes down. [TS]

01:24:00   Only the people selling the most for the app store are you know companies you mention who are using existing in a [TS]

01:24:06   purchase system to sell digital coins to people who are busily into dollars and write well and they are to like. [TS]

01:24:13   There is pretty much like besides Amazon one of the one of the major examples are there that would have enough of an [TS]

01:24:23   impact that that that are in for meeting customers enough and and are bad enough [TS]

01:24:28   and we know for customers that Apple would be more pressured to act beyond just let's just keep thirty percent of its [TS]

01:24:35   working great for us. [TS]

01:24:36   You know you got to convert potential things like if Apple wants to be able to buy things to arrive pads [TS]

01:24:44   and I think they should because I think that's a great way to buy a lot of content that can be digital. [TS]

01:24:49   And I think it should use a single unified system that Apple controls for an aperture so everyone isn't like all the [TS]

01:24:54   things about it that we like. If there was more of that it would be better. [TS]

01:24:58   So anybody who's going to sell that could potentially find its way through the invisible airwaves to your i Pad should [TS]

01:25:04   be encouraged to do so. [TS]

01:25:05   Some of the Sharon brought up like I had look where the revenues coming from of it's all coming from the big guys [TS]

01:25:10   and they wouldn't change the rate because then they basically Apple would be losing money. [TS]

01:25:14   Like why would i will ever do get a volume discount of all their income [TS]

01:25:18   or a huge amount of their income is coming from the big guys. [TS]

01:25:20   Yeah Apple will make less money like this is the problem of this whole thing is that people you know I go out will run [TS]

01:25:25   the i Tunes Store break even and that's not really a profit center and I know the App Store is like take up. [TS]

01:25:30   It's really just enough to keep the lights on but it is always been like apples and know their secret strategy [TS]

01:25:36   or whatever but it has been pretty clear like you could see Apple five years ago rubbing their hands ears [TS]

01:25:41   and yes ignore our break even businesses they're totally not there to make money just to make our devices more valuable. [TS]

01:25:47   They know that it is you know this is what you want the type of system where we don't have to do anything more [TS]

01:25:53   and we magically get money like the people can drive more and more money through our systems. [TS]

01:25:57   We like that the margin is better than having to make. [TS]

01:26:00   Metallic when to sell somebody it's much easier to December let someone tap another button [TS]

01:26:05   and send get another thirty percent cut of a transaction is going to our system and lo [TS]

01:26:08   and behold years down the line suddenly Apple's business is like i Tunes is not the roads are going to break even I [TS]

01:26:14   started to make some significant money in the App Store same thing like oh it starts [TS]

01:26:17   and it's just enough for us to cover costs or whatever [TS]

01:26:19   but I have a feeling that Apple would like it if these businesses stop being breakeven [TS]

01:26:24   and start making some serious money [TS]

01:26:25   and while people aren't paying attention that's where they're going so any potential planet says we're going to give [TS]

01:26:30   you less revenue because of your volume discount. It's like Apple might be thinking. [TS]

01:26:35   I know we've always kind of pretended this is like a break even the we're going to this it might actually be a break in [TS]

01:26:40   business and we're not Amazon we don't we actually want profit so there are forces against any idea like this [TS]

01:26:47   but it's almost like I wish it would hurt them more because you're right that it's not hurting them [TS]

01:26:52   and that it's clear that they have to do this are going to be out of business [TS]

01:26:55   or they're doing that's totally not the case. [TS]

01:26:57   It's just like he's just like a little thorn in your side where you know it could be better [TS]

01:27:01   and some day you are going to have to explain to your mom who got a Kindle Fire [TS]

01:27:05   when she gets her i Pad the i Pad It's better [TS]

01:27:07   but I'm I can before I could buy the books on the thing you will have to explain that to her [TS]

01:27:11   and good luck making it sound reasonable. [TS]

01:27:13   It's impossible to not reasonable Apple product is worse in this one small way and it galls me [TS]

01:27:19   or I should just get a patent just buy things and i Books. That's a fate worse than death. [TS]

01:27:26   Thanks for two or three sponsors this week. [TS]

01:27:28   Fracture back plays and new relic and we will see you next week after her and she is going on. [TS]

01:28:07   Yes he was said for that skill list [TS]

01:28:11   and the director you want talk about this weird test flight thing that we've been putting off forever it's really old [TS]

01:28:39   news now. I forgot what it is now. [TS]

01:28:42   So Bursley was acquired to do we even know like is there any actual confirmation that apple of the acquire the Internet [TS]

01:28:49   said so and I think even that is is not definitely not confirmed [TS]

01:28:55   but test flight basically just like very quietly shut down like it stop accepting new new applications [TS]

01:29:04   or new customers to beta test the apps with it and it's just like quietly shutting down [TS]

01:29:09   and they never made an announcement about this they never explained it. [TS]

01:29:13   They just like a very very quiet shutdown and so the theory is that Apple bought them [TS]

01:29:19   and they're probably going to integrate you know maybe first party. [TS]

01:29:23   Maybe Apple might actually integrate test flight like functionality into the provisioning portal for A.O.S. [TS]

01:29:29   Absolute we could stop doing the stupid U.T. [TS]

01:29:31   ID dance with with things like hockey and test flight another beta testing type things but. [TS]

01:29:37   But I don't know [TS]

01:29:40   but I would love it to be the case I would love for the story with test flight to be that Apple's building something [TS]

01:29:45   like this in and that's why it's showing them. But first it was also a big mobile ad company right. [TS]

01:29:51   Was not or analytics one of those things. [TS]

01:29:53   So Apple might have wanted it for that [TS]

01:29:55   and has little side project they had that wasn't making any money travel just you know made them quietly shut down. [TS]

01:30:00   If you could be any of these things I would put money that they're going to do the thing a test I did inside Apple just [TS]

01:30:06   because it makes so much sense that I mean any time you see a bunch of third party sites popping up the developers are [TS]

01:30:12   using like water developers using hockey outlasted Alvarez using test flight. Apple hates that. [TS]

01:30:18   Yes I think there's something that you know third party developers need to be done. [TS]

01:30:23   There should not be a thriving ecosystem of companies that serve these developers needs to do these things if the thing [TS]

01:30:31   they're doing is something like and it's common. So Apple wants to eventually have a solution to do that. [TS]

01:30:36   If they bought this company [TS]

01:30:38   and this company did that I would say it's almost guaranteed that what they're trying to do is get something in-house [TS]

01:30:42   that is similar to the thing that they did. [TS]

01:30:45   Seattle and probably this is probably just like you saying nothing ever get better in the App Store [TS]

01:30:49   but it can sometimes. [TS]

01:30:50   Yeah it's some kind of psychological barrier that I have where especially in areas like this like the provisioning of [TS]

01:30:57   devices the U.T. [TS]

01:30:58   ID limits you know beta testing being such a pain I can't fathom Apple actually making a major improvement to this [TS]

01:31:06   and I guess I will be proven wrong. [TS]

01:31:08   They're probably still give you a list of ideas that only rotates at a certain level still be plenty things to annoy [TS]

01:31:14   you I'm sure. [TS]

01:31:15   Like just general experience of provisioning and the ability of people to easily download betas and distribute. [TS]

01:31:22   Like I'm assuming they will fix some of the annoyances but I guarantee there will be more there remain. [TS]

01:31:26   Just don't worry code signing will still be terrible so you'll have that. [TS]

01:31:31   I don't I mean like I've heard rumblings here and there from the rumor sites [TS]

01:31:34   and everybody that like you know this might finally be the year where where Apple like really makes things better for [TS]

01:31:40   developers in the App Store so you know the tools that the Xcode has fantastic been improved a lot. [TS]

01:31:46   Good to see the language has been improved a lot and all the tools there are really great [TS]

01:31:50   but then you cross over into like the provisioning and i Tunes connect and the App Store rules [TS]

01:31:56   and the pricing mechanism and you know upgrade. [TS]

01:32:00   In trials [TS]

01:32:00   and all that stuff the developers knowing forever I have no faith that Apple will ever improve that stuff because they [TS]

01:32:10   Biggest have it like the App Store has been running now for what six years five years and it [TS]

01:32:15   and this stuff is almost not changed at all. They've been very minor changes. [TS]

01:32:20   But then to think they have been kind of in the middle of a multi-year arc where they've been adding lots of stuff so [TS]

01:32:26   fast that they haven't had enough time to essentially make it work. [TS]

01:32:28   Yeah I mean like that the whole I mean the thing [TS]

01:32:32   and there's like they've been doing a lot of stuff to code signing provisioning profiles and betas and like [TS]

01:32:37   and sandboxing in the sandbox bookmarks on the macro opening up like they're adding all sorts of things you can do [TS]

01:32:43   and revving their compiler children like they've kind of been out running themselves leaving a trail of crappy half [TS]

01:32:48   implemented things behind them. [TS]

01:32:50   Hopefully at some point they will get to where they can circle back [TS]

01:32:53   and say that's what I hope they're doing by buying test lies like we're OK We had a way to do this before the way [TS]

01:32:58   sucked for years now we finally have a chance to take a breath [TS]

01:33:01   and say let's go back instead of adding a new capability [TS]

01:33:04   but merely make it less incredibly unpleasant to do with something that you could previously do you know I mean [TS]

01:33:09   and I'm hoping that they're at that point I mean I I say it may be a move in that direction as well no there were over [TS]

01:33:14   the seven hundred you know so I will say yeah maybe. [TS]

01:33:19   I hope you're right I don't have high hopes I don't have a lot of faith but I but I hope you're right. [TS]

01:33:24   It might not be this year could be next year. We have made me an asshole. [TS]

01:33:30   Nope I quietly Bre launched my website that's not on tumblr anymore [TS]

01:33:38   but one of the your L W W W directly to a stock car really inventive and that's my that's my second crack [TS]

01:33:46   or third crack if you will and I don't really have a name for it. [TS]

01:33:50   What do you what is the directory called for the project. It has to have something it does. [TS]

01:33:56   It's camel CA M E L which is my kind of. [TS]

01:34:00   Where support man you know how to pronounce a word but you see it on Wikipedia all the time. [TS]

01:34:05   It's a mash of my first middle names. [TS]

01:34:07   But anyway so that's all written in node and everyone's probably breaking it now and that's OK. [TS]

01:34:13   So what's it going to take to get you off of the using your last name of the pond thing as an impossible task. [TS]

01:34:19   It's never going to happen. [TS]

01:34:20   No I mean I couldn't think of a good name and I was so that's so in many ways it's kind of a mash up of underscores [TS]

01:34:27   and your two sites both in terms of inspiration for C.S.S. [TS]

01:34:31   Inspiration for layout things of that nature and [TS]

01:34:36   and so I I look to underscore site after I had decided to call this thoughtless and he just calls his David Smith [TS]

01:34:45   and obviously there's hypercritical there's Marco dot org I don't like A C. [TS]

01:34:49   List dot com I don't have a fancy pants name like hypercritical that I've been using for forever so I don't know this [TS]

01:34:57   is the first thing that I came up with that didn't make me gag [TS]

01:35:02   but I'm not in love with it either so didn't you read that whole post that you wrote about not doubting yourself you [TS]

01:35:08   should not have the title of the thing that says that your thought was I did I was coming that's why I was like if I'm [TS]

01:35:14   not in love with what we've got here but. But that's right. [TS]

01:35:18   I've never seen you use the the list last name pun in a way that wasn't self-deprecating. [TS]

01:35:25   Well you know that's kind of my schtick because it sounds like the last thing was on a lot of goodwill. [TS]

01:35:33   Wait less and whatever but this is node [TS]

01:35:37   and I've been piddling with it a little bit lately I only do a clock on it four hundred five lines of code. [TS]

01:35:44   Basically the way it works is there's a series of markdown files in a dream directories that match the directories you [TS]

01:35:52   see in your roles and then there's a header and footer markdown file [TS]

01:35:56   and so if you go to any of these any of these your L's. [TS]

01:36:00   And during fireball silence he put out M D at the end it'll show you the source [TS]

01:36:04   and so I have a little bit about it in its top [TS]

01:36:06   and then other than that it just processes the markdown files throws on a header or throws on a folder [TS]

01:36:12   and calls today [TS]

01:36:13   and so it's four hundred five lines of node using several packages because I haven't yet been horribly burned by third [TS]

01:36:23   party software and I'm pretty proud of it I like it. [TS]

01:36:26   Not enough lawless but I like I should call flawless that's why should they go. [TS]

01:36:32   Finally you figure one out that is not so temperately all because that has flaw in it is like the flaw letters with the [TS]

01:36:39   flowers. It's like you can use the last name of the I know I know I got to think of a better name. That's pretty even. [TS]

01:36:45   Even your brag had had if I had offered and he was marked down I might replace mine with it [TS]

01:36:54   but it does so I want what's wrong with mark down your appearance right on your everything [TS]

01:37:00   and actually came out straight. [TS]

01:37:01   Again I find that for me I find it better hope that I don't want to go there no translation. I going to publish H.T.M.L. [TS]

01:37:10   I know I read it stem out I write it. I publish it. [TS]

01:37:13   No I don't have to say how I was going to transform I don't need to do it like a transformation it's just not the tower. [TS]

01:37:19   I don't say that every of us do that [TS]

01:37:21   but that's the way I do it in a way most people seem to like markdown until they make Ollie that's the work of markdown [TS]

01:37:25   and if you don't he's marked as well what it's worth marked how much I want to phrase this wrong [TS]

01:37:31   but the markdown is H.T.M.L. Now that's the other way around. [TS]

01:37:34   Yeah I know you can just write as you know mark until it's like once and that them without the police. [TS]

01:37:38   Well so what I'm saying is with the. So if you look at any one of these U R L's and put the dot M D I did. [TS]

01:37:44   So I'm looking at the A.T.P. [TS]

01:37:46   Shirts one as example as an example you would have to have the AT and then you know the couple meditator entries. [TS]

01:37:52   but everything below those. Everything below that can all be straight H.T.M.L. [TS]

01:37:57   This looks I know but like this looks like my thing like I have the same. [TS]

01:38:00   Format only don't have at out that have met it in the top.. [TS]

01:38:03   I just use the email format with the first blank line in the Header section and then I have the H.T.M.L. [TS]

01:38:08   Yeah I do something similar because I have I have like header format on top. Keep talking all show you one of mine. [TS]

01:38:18   Mine's weird but it makes sense to me. [TS]

01:38:21   So in this that's what this is about it made sense to me I wanted to try something that I hadn't done before which is [TS]

01:38:27   node [TS]

01:38:28   and I didn't like the code I don't love the code a part of me wants to throw it on get her been embarrassed myself [TS]

01:38:36   but I really want to fix a few things up for I do it like for example it's a good thing I only have to post on there [TS]

01:38:43   because if we go if I go past the No ten it's going to look ridiculous because I don't see pagination at the moment the [TS]

01:38:51   figure that you know I mean [TS]

01:38:52   and I actually already have a plan I just haven't implemented it yet I'm going to do like the world's worst pagination [TS]

01:38:58   which is kind of a loose pagination want to get it worked out maybe we'll talk about another after show. [TS]

01:39:02   But yes I'm I'm pretty proud of it look it's white not because he always says white it's white because I can figure out [TS]

01:39:09   a background that I wanted to like it of course [TS]

01:39:13   but I don't know if I felt like I needed to spend all this time like working out better C.S.S. Because I suck at C.S.S. [TS]

01:39:20   and I for a brief moment like I thought about copying the Marco you know one color at the top [TS]

01:39:25   and then everything else blow and then I looked at it the way it was and was like you know it's good enough. [TS]

01:39:30   My wife asked why fuss over it so I'm pretty proud of it as simple as it is [TS]

01:39:34   and maybe I'll open source it may be along if you're even thinking about showing this code to anybody it is a lot [TS]

01:39:40   better than throwing because I would never show it. I don't like looking at it myself. [TS]

01:39:45   If it's bad but it's not awful there's definitely a lot of places where it could be cleaned up in and spruced up [TS]

01:39:53   and made a lot cleaner I'm repeating myself in several places. [TS]

01:39:57   But by and large I don't think it's terrible I mean to be honest. [TS]

01:40:00   How bad can he really screw up four hundred five lines check the scripts Leaving aside the fact that a transcript in a [TS]

01:40:05   lot of bad jobs you know it's definitely possible when the other thing is this. [TS]

01:40:11   And I'm looking at the source that you paste in the chat Marco This is not a link blog I have no I have no support for [TS]

01:40:20   like a link post vs a regular post but so it's just a block but I don't want to get so far. [TS]

01:40:27   Yeah I don't have any support for playing things either another ever post them [TS]

01:40:30   but I mean if I did I would guess I would go ahead support whatever the risk is the real problem is that he likes [TS]

01:40:36   everyone is already used up all the obvious characters for indicating things [TS]

01:40:40   and I completely agree one hundred percent agree the one hundred percent the problem. [TS]

01:40:45   Well you could steal my arrow afterwards is there after her before your hour everybody uses [TS]

01:40:50   and verifiable use of the star for none. [TS]

01:40:53   A lot of other people you that everyone use the infinity for permalink sinners just like there's no more glyphs So game [TS]

01:40:59   over. But what's wrong with just using the standard glyph that everyone else uses. [TS]

01:41:03   If you want to be different Marco you want to be your own special snowflake that he won't want to be a brand where you [TS]

01:41:08   can't be your own special snowflake That's Dr Dre The real problem with with Link blogs I think is that you know [TS]

01:41:15   whether there's two problems. [TS]

01:41:17   Number one is is like what the feed items link to the letter which option you pick people will be upset [TS]

01:41:24   and confused to different people you know that's true. So that's that's one problem. There's no good solution to that. [TS]

01:41:30   The other problem is when you're when you choose a title [TS]

01:41:35   and a length of the post it's confusing as to whether you wrote this whether that's your title of your post or [TS]

01:41:42   and then like some people will get to get to your link post permalink page [TS]

01:41:48   and not realize that that big title at the top is a link to something else. [TS]

01:41:52   Well I mean you can avoid that by not making that the title to be a link to anything on the page [TS]

01:41:57   when you're viewing it and I mean. [TS]

01:42:00   When you're viewing [TS]

01:42:01   when you're viewing just the page it just shows that story the title is not a link everybody thought the title is a [TS]

01:42:06   link and then you have to choose where you want to go [TS]

01:42:08   but I would say you may go to that you know I don't know it's like where does the link go [TS]

01:42:13   and only post on a bronze from it I would say goes the story like I like the idea of linking from the text that you [TS]

01:42:20   write to the thing you're talking about and not relying on the title to fill that role than kind of redundant [TS]

01:42:26   but then I don't like that the big problem link blogging is that all of these questions like there's no clear good [TS]

01:42:33   solution like whatever you pick is going to have to pick one of people and people have to get used to it. [TS]

01:42:40   Yeah there is that's one of the worst but most people don't think either of us any more these days. [TS]

01:42:44   Kind of takes care of it so I just use both I have an alternate feed of my footer that that has the other link style I [TS]

01:42:51   just noticed that earlier today which I had never seen before obviously the other thing I wanted to talk about briefly [TS]

01:42:56   about this was how I'm hosting it which is to say that I'm put I put it on her Roku because for anyone where I know as [TS]

01:43:05   they call it it is absolutely free [TS]

01:43:07   and I have from what I can tell this didn't get absolutely crushed under the load of live listeners. [TS]

01:43:13   But but what was unique to me was that [TS]

01:43:19   when I went to deploy to Heroku having never used Heroku before I looked at how to do it [TS]

01:43:27   and what it amounted to was I needed to add a proc file to my source which specifies that it is a Web site not like a [TS]

01:43:36   worker's anything like that and it's a node [TS]

01:43:40   and which node file to run I needed to clean up my package Jason which defines what my dependencies are. [TS]

01:43:48   But that was it and then I pushed to a get repository that they set up [TS]

01:43:53   and suddenly I had a website I now know their system anymore because I thought it was generating static files [TS]

01:43:59   but I forgot that. Actually using a code runs when you know I got a static. [TS]

01:44:04   Well in so basically everything is generated on the fly leisurely [TS]

01:44:09   but once it's generated it's held in memory for some amount of time I don't recall. [TS]

01:44:14   So you're right it isn't static but nevertheless I would assume that it should hold up to some pretty heavy load. [TS]

01:44:23   Well you can do the the credit thing which I considered before I decided even this was too much work with make a system [TS]

01:44:29   a demo here it's web pages and is Croyde yourself to create your static pages and upload the stuff [TS]

01:44:35   or maybe someone in your ignorance coming through [TS]

01:44:38   but if I have everything in memory how is it going to be that hard to answer. [TS]

01:44:43   Because billion requests like it's all there it's rendered H.T.M.L. In memory. [TS]

01:44:48   I just gotta look it up from a hash and dump it to the to the to the requests [TS]

01:44:53   or to the response object so what else is there to worry about [TS]

01:44:58   but the thing with with all the static blogging systems static blogging is is really great but [TS]

01:45:04   and I use it on my site but you can get almost all of the benefit from just caching [TS]

01:45:11   and we can start a blog you have to change a few things. [TS]

01:45:14   If you do static want to main things is you have to serve the same markup to everybody in the same seat like you have [TS]

01:45:19   to serve the same content for every hit you can do server side browser detection or device to action. [TS]

01:45:26   Altering what you send in a mobile way out separately like you have to serve everyone the same market [TS]

01:45:31   but with responsive design and with the removal of comments [TS]

01:45:35   or even outsourcing comments to other services like discussed where you just embed a static javascript link [TS]

01:45:40   and the thing works. You know if you really all dynamic functionality to javascript embeds or to C.S.S. [TS]

01:45:48   With response Bisan then it works now. [TS]

01:45:51   You can do that exact same thing either through a static system [TS]

01:45:54   or just just put like a caching proxy in front of your server and put like you know. Varnish or our engine X. [TS]

01:46:01   In caching mode you know put those in furniture we're just have a cash every hit for one second. [TS]

01:46:08   That's it cash every pay your service with T.T.L. [TS]

01:46:10   Of one second you'll be able to tolerate almost every possible flood of traffic you will ever get. [TS]

01:46:16   Even if the thing to be generated from a database on every hit that actually gets through it's a static point [TS]

01:46:23   and it does offer high performance but it also just offers a pretty strong degree of simplicity for deployment. [TS]

01:46:29   So the again I like I'm not doing it for performance reasons doink isn't cheap. Hank is there anywhere. [TS]

01:46:35   SUPER to like I don't need anything to run any code [TS]

01:46:37   and that's like it's not just people like you have the most options like it will literally work everywhere there is no [TS]

01:46:42   you don't need to run anything you don't need to have any in software there is no software like that's static blogging [TS]

01:46:48   is not underarms reasons it's just mostly for just you have all the options in the world it's going to work everywhere [TS]

01:46:54   on every single hosting thing you can possibly imagine. [TS]

01:46:56   And yes it will also happen to be performant and all of them [TS]

01:46:59   but that's not really why you're doing it like it just keeps the whole Ana there is software they just move it. [TS]

01:47:04   I mean that's what they like you said there's no suburb unless you're actually writing H.T.M.L. [TS]

01:47:07   Pages which most people are not doing. There absolutely is. [TS]

01:47:11   Software involved and it has to be maintained and has to run somewhere. [TS]

01:47:14   It is running on your computer like the thing that generates the files. [TS]

01:47:18   Oh yeah no yeah well I mean get [TS]

01:47:20   but you control that like it's not your deployment options are unlimited you can move from one hosting provider to [TS]

01:47:26   another you don't have to worry if they if they don't it's a board no day as sir. [TS]

01:47:29   DEVORE different version or make something [TS]

01:47:31   or complicated thing you need a different point it's like it is arcing file somewhere [TS]

01:47:36   and that's you know if you have a site that actually gets traffic then you don't worry about this [TS]

01:47:40   and find write some code to play I don't like my site doesn't get in traffic I want the cheapest possible thing I can [TS]

01:47:45   possibly get and that ends up being static hosting and you know if you get what you pay for [TS]

01:47:50   but US That's why I did it static [TS]

01:47:52   and that now because I was looking performance like Occasionally I do get traffic Burress [TS]

01:47:56   and it's nice that I don't have to worry about them because again stay on it. [TS]

01:48:00   But it is super staggers and some people like well it's static [TS]

01:48:03   but I use like you know some server side include system [TS]

01:48:07   or something to put in headers No one hundred percent static Yeah [TS]

01:48:10   and that's the thing is that admitted Li this is dynamic the first run [TS]

01:48:14   but like I said you know as soon as I've parsed the markdown for any of these pages it's held in memory for at least [TS]

01:48:21   half an hour if not more than that until I either deliberately toss the cash or you know at times out of whatever. [TS]

01:48:28   So this isn't a challenge or anything like that [TS]

01:48:31   but I I feel like I should in principle be able to understand it to handle a crowd or the traffic without crumbling. [TS]

01:48:39   Yeah like years of static in the respect that really matters for performance [TS]

01:48:42   and that you're not like talking to it you're not talking to a database. [TS]

01:48:46   Sample the files that you're reading are static they just happen to be some of markdown [TS]

01:48:50   and you do a little bit of post processing in memory and [TS]

01:48:52   and it's not like you know it is a single process like event driven right you know the same thing over others that you [TS]

01:48:57   don't you know the worry about your cache getting divided through a patch you children [TS]

01:49:00   or some other concern that you might have some fun [TS]

01:49:04   and really just like me no one's going to read your blog so we're both except really really no one's going to read my [TS]

01:49:11   blog Whereas me [TS]

01:49:12   and nobody reads Here's where you can compete you'll be surprised if you could will read my blog where you never post [TS]

01:49:17   which says that exactly if you know imposing nobody read another works and admittedly I'm not good at that either [TS]

01:49:22   and I'm hoping this will make me better [TS]

01:49:24   but I don't know yet I just it was a lot of fun it was a lot of fun to do I'm still I'm still very impressed with how [TS]

01:49:31   unbelievably simple Heroku was to deploy to. [TS]

01:49:34   Because truly I had heard of it but never really done anything with it [TS]

01:49:38   and it must of been well under half an hour maybe even under fifteen minutes between the time I said you know what let [TS]

01:49:43   me just see if I can throw this on her Roku and if it'll work and the time that I had it not only up there [TS]

01:49:49   but I updated my D.M.'s to point to it. It was unbelievably quick and easy and that that really is awesome. [TS]

01:49:56   But at the five dollars a month if yo dollars a month. Yeah yeah he's beating you up. [TS]

01:50:02   Yeah I guess that's true but then he's stuck the point some places for snow days you know they also support P.H.P. [TS]

01:50:08   Now what sort of one of the limits like Wendy's had to start paying. [TS]

01:50:12   I have no I honestly don't know I mean basically if I had more web front ends then that costs money [TS]

01:50:19   but in terms of like bandwidth or you know I don't know if it if after thirty gigs used or something like that [TS]

01:50:25   or you're not going to have a band with limited IP like C.P.U. [TS]

01:50:28   Time or something we need to do is get one of your stories to go over like Hacker News [TS]

01:50:31   and like a bunch of other sites simultaneously saying The Daring Fireball link and Marco a link it [TS]

01:50:36   and everyone will tweet it [TS]

01:50:37   and we'll see if you get into the pay czar because I like the part even though I don't have an ending my blog post [TS]

01:50:43   every once in a while some random story will land on some social media site [TS]

01:50:46   and all of a sudden I'll have a spike it's not a big spike [TS]

01:50:49   but it's big enough that I would worry that I would go out of the Free Zone [TS]

01:50:51   and start getting charge them praising them. I love that that's how the world control K.Z. By making him popular. [TS]

01:50:58   Yeah I think we need a way to test the system there right. [TS]