68: Siracusa Waited Impatiently For This

0:00:00When you're going to hear all the costs and sniffles and everything else. Normally we have time to take out.

0:00:07It's a has nothing to do with our studio which is excellent and I'm very enthusiastic about this

0:00:11but has everything to do with the fact that we want to get this out immediately.

0:00:15Meanwhile I'm watching John and Cameron and I'm trying to figure it out. OK So this is our special W.D.C.

0:00:27Episode which we're recording at the David keynote and it is right after the keynote. I'm sorry.

0:00:33Right after the afternoon session we are at the MacWorld studios.

0:00:36So thank you very much to Jason's now for letting us crash his studio

0:00:41and use his equipment in order to get this pod cast to you likely split

0:00:44and not sound like garbage so thank you very much. Jason's now. Everyone tweet him a big thank you.

0:00:50Just so his inbox explodes at J. Snow or you can listen to his podcast the incomparable on five by five which Marco.

0:00:59So so some stuff happened today. Today was a big day. And John do you have any thoughts about today by chance.

0:01:08Talk about a plan of attack for this pocket because there is much there's way too much that happened today for us to

0:01:13discuss and

0:01:13when I was out of the bog of no doubt we will be talking about these things for many episodes the comment I probably

0:01:18would have been a good idea for us to have a plan of like OK today we're just going to talk about like I was just going

0:01:23talk about swiftest and I but we don't have a plan because we're disorganized.

0:01:27Are you suggesting that you did not do your homework. We didn't know didn't you know.

0:01:32But anyway I think that we know what he wanted to do and do a focus on particular.

0:01:36Just wanted to give broad sweeping stocks we have. We want to do everything we need to have a list of bullet points.

0:01:40OK We're going to talk about this that that that and get through them all.

0:01:42Otherwise we're going to we're going to dive into one of these topics

0:01:44and spend the whole show on it which I'm also fun with.

0:01:48Well let's just start going down the list and if we end up going off on a tangent that last twelve hours then so be it.

0:01:54So what did we see today. Well firstly on the way in we got.

0:02:00Aided by the line people which was weird I didn't I've never seen that before so yeah as you're on your way in.

0:02:07So you wrap around the block a couple times

0:02:09and then at something like seven seven thirty well something around seven thirty they let you into Mosconi

0:02:16and you'd end up going to the second level of Moscone and so you go up these escalators and we hear cheering.

0:02:22We hear cheering going on and I'm thinking myself what is happening.

0:02:26And sure enough they had I guess or Apple employees that had all these Apple employees lined up today

0:02:32and like oh right yeah be excited it's like seven thirty in the Morning we're all exhausted

0:02:37and jet lagged in there trying to pump us all up and I had never seen that before and it was odd.

0:02:42That's why they do it up of our employees come out

0:02:46and applaud for everybody like yeah I mean it is that point people know they're excited about what's on the way

0:02:50and you know we don't know what we're going to be

0:02:52and there was plenty in the Q Not worth applauding how do we know what we were going to see we would have been just as

0:02:57well probably that we didn't so it was just a bunch of tired people.

0:02:59Yeah it was it was different to say we're going to try to get a dub dub D.C.

0:03:03Chant going which was extremely on and I was it was odd

0:03:06but then we made it into the keynote room that worked out well

0:03:09and the keynote started fairly slow I thought I didn't think it had that much speed to it

0:03:14and everyone seemed really confident and really relaxed

0:03:19and I didn't know what to make of it so what was the first one was from the First off they covered.

0:03:24I didn't start taking notes until about halfway through so I don't know if you guys all right this is an accidental

0:03:28podcast and one of the things I noticed first was you know just like the mood of really you know Tim comes out

0:03:34and Tim is relaxed and laid back and this is a side of him we haven't seen a lot of if any really

0:03:41and he was kind of fiery and like he was again taken jabs at Google in Windows

0:03:45and seven it was it was the kind of thing you know we've seen that from from jobs in the past.

0:03:51But tim is always shown a more reserved approach to those usually and he'll put in jabs here

0:03:55and there that are more subtle in the past but I think this is the first time we. I'm really like.

0:04:01Feel free to just dig in and he seemed

0:04:05and I think I think what we saw play out is that the reason he was so confident

0:04:11and laid back look at the same reason that all the presenters were so confidently back is because they knew they had a

0:04:18kickass lineup that they were announcing and like they were very proud

0:04:22and confident in what they were about to show us

0:04:24and we didn't know yet so at the time which is a cloud that that's they seem like they're really relaxed today in there

0:04:31and they didn't float very well it was it was much more put together much more seamless than I would say any Apple

0:04:40event in the last three years I would say that like he seemed less rehearsed not that we know they were errors like

0:04:46crazy right but in the end Tim Cook's first several keynote you could tell that he was well rehearsed

0:04:52and he would come out there and say what he was going to say

0:04:55and I was like oh I can see that he is saying something that he has prescribed it whereas I mean now it was the same

0:05:00exact thing this time but he sounded less rehearsed so again you know he was relaxed as of the rest of the keynote.

0:05:05There was so much stuff and this came out of that whole important technologies got like a slide and five seconds

0:05:14and it was like wait what was that. And then they're on to the next thing because there just wasn't enough time.

0:05:18And it's obvious they're trying to keep it to a two hour keynote the try not to go three hours four hours whereas other

0:05:23companies I mean Google's done that and Microsoft's going really long.

0:05:26Sony If you want to go to the gaming space there been press conferences where

0:05:30when people have a lot to announce they say well we've got a lot to announce and everybody will love it

0:05:33and they just go and Apple was like we have a lot to announce

0:05:36but we're going to hold it to our schedule to keep so there was so much in his keynote that there were things that got

0:05:43one slide that are more significant than things that got like ten minutes and in previous years.

0:05:48Yeah it was you could tell like you know we were what I love about this is so much of it was a surprise you know there

0:05:54were very few spoilers of any of any value here. Even like you know one of the biggest spoilers healthy.

0:06:00Look was kind of wrong in you know how it's like an asterisk on the. Yeah yeah we got the health thing.

0:06:06Yeah well I mean it was like it was like we said the possibility of like them introducing A.P.I.

0:06:10For integration with third party things and then maybe something of their own in the future

0:06:14and so the ball was not going anywhere near anything wearable

0:06:16and I think today it's like we have a bunch of baby eyes and a third party application can use it

0:06:21and I think that'll be great guys right OK Moving on I mean it was one in the in the scope of the you know it was a

0:06:25minor announcement you know was really wild and I gotta say to to back up just a smidge that I loved snarky Tim Cook.

0:06:34I thought it was great I really really did and I think that the corny jokes that Apple made like during last W.D.C.

0:06:42and I can think of the most time I had maybe it was with any Q.

0:06:46and I work and he did like the band poster or whatever it was you know I just felt like that was so corny

0:06:52and contrived in this year with the exception of the hair thing which I think we've taken a little too far.

0:06:57I thought everything else was well done I thought it was the right amount of snark the right amount of humor which is

0:07:02not something I'm used to seeing from Apple I mean Jobs had his own shtick here and there

0:07:07but generally speaking they've been fairly by the book

0:07:10and I love this slightly more casual Apple that the titles in the D.C.

0:07:16Sessions where it was like Well wouldn't you like to know in well we had to tell you I love this new Apple i know John

0:07:22is the as the old man of the three of us in terms of Apple any age what do you think about this like more casual set up.

0:07:29Think about the humor in the jokes like this to parse that one is how relaxed relaxed the people are making things like

0:07:35that people seem relax because they were can think of a lot of good stuff to show and because their experience like

0:07:38when they brought out the new people when presented many times they were shaky

0:07:41or kind of like you know Craig was in the beginning but now he's more experienced

0:07:44but the second thing is the jokes were just silly and corny as they've always been.

0:07:50But

0:07:50when you're announcing things to get the audience excited the audience is predisposed to forgive your mistakes because

0:07:56they're so jazzed up for and so that is the effect basically if you have gray.

0:08:00Things to show if you have announcements of the audience was going to love.

0:08:03They will also be in the mood to laugh at your stupid jokes and if you're showing stop it's boring

0:08:08and you make a stupid joke you like not only United training you really think that I won't be making a stupid joke

0:08:12and wasting my time. So it's all about. Audience atmosphere and we were you know as as there are now things rolled on.

0:08:20We were all very receptive to anything that's true

0:08:22and I think that the pace in general seemed not that brisk in the beginning

0:08:28but by the end my goodness it was a fire hose just getting leveled at all these developers

0:08:34and in the best possible way.

0:08:35But things got fast

0:08:37and this is what this comes back to what you were saying earlier about oh yeah well we've got this whole thing.

0:08:40Oh yeah we've got these new death tolls.

0:08:42Oh yeah we've got this new language and it was unbelievable how quick it was there was a lot happening today.

0:08:47There was also at a level of refinement that we haven't seen in a while like

0:08:52and even even with jobs like this is really Steve Jobs things even with jobs there were some some weird

0:08:56and sloppy moments

0:08:58and the events for the last couple years Apple's events have have seemed stuffy almost sterile kind of uptight

0:09:06and any I was even worried because you know

0:09:07when we saw Eddie Q And Jimmy I vine last week I think it did not come off that well either I think he was a little

0:09:12uptight there and so I was I was kind of worried you know that that's kind of the apple we've seen recently.

0:09:18And like last year like some of these are you know some of the jokes were kind of overplayed

0:09:23or stale they they ran too many videos last year another good point.

0:09:27Yeah and and like they and they kept running the same video for like three events in a row like it was this year.

0:09:34They ironed out all those bugs in their presentation and it was just a smooth presentation from start to finish.

0:09:41There were no remote control cars. It was it was just very very well done and I mean what they announced.

0:09:47I don't even know where to begin.

0:09:50It was just a lot lately I mean with the last ten because I think it despite people thinking oh this is going to be

0:09:56and I was also saying this is going to be bigger and that it is visually.

0:10:00This from the perspective I think it was the smallest of the things that they announced today that they thought of the

0:10:04big slides can be a western Iowa State and then they have very bright developer tools

0:10:09and all those three things like they lead with the small one like they always do you save the best for last.

0:10:13So I think we can dispense with O S ten pretty quickly if you want to cover that in the beginning.

0:10:18Also your review was going to be short as well that might be oh I don't know I mean the thing about it as I mentioned

0:10:23before that like a lot of the things they put in the Iowa section

0:10:26or in the death of developer tools section of the keynote also applied O S ten.

0:10:31We don't think of them that way because you know anything that shared between I was ten

0:10:34and I was going to go into the Iowa session because that's what everyone cares about because

0:10:37when I hear a small platform but that's up a blast though I thought as well so I'm not entirely sure but

0:10:42and then we start with Oh as to what we thought was going to happen was a big video already fresh what we got was a big

0:10:47visual refresh.

0:10:49Wasn't that big a visual refresh No I mean it's in hearing that again I was actually surprised how how radical it

0:10:55wasn't and they were what you would you expect that you can say well I expected everything to be all white and thin

0:11:01and wispy and it wasn't like it was it it still looks like Macko S ten.

0:11:06Still it's not a jarring change it is an evolutionary change

0:11:12and it's exactly I think the kind of change that was warranted they didn't need to totally throw everything like a

0:11:18number like I was

0:11:20and remember like you know Gruber is even saying like you know what they can do about shadows about layering windows

0:11:25and it turns out they didn't do anything different we still live in the shadows because Windows still are windows they

0:11:30still hate Windows they're still layered it you know it it wasn't as radical of a change as I think a lot of people

0:11:35were assuming or fearing that it would be and I mean

0:11:38and there are a few there are a few weird issues with that that I'm not thrilled with like I think the the trends loose

0:11:45and see a difference between like the sidebar is translucent to the desktop

0:11:50and the title bar is translucent to the view under it within its own window

0:11:54and there it is we're layering things that are conceptually little on but I think overall it looks.

0:12:00Great and it looks like a nice modernization of what they already had rather than throwing it all away

0:12:05and making something totally radically different if they were the new look like.

0:12:11It's not it's not the type of thing where you're going to install the snow ass

0:12:16and all your apps are going to look like the absolute showed in the keynote because this stuff doesn't get enabled by

0:12:20default like you have to opt into it and so Apple's apps are going to work.

0:12:24I got Apple's apps are going to have like title bars with a window which is right in line with them like they do

0:12:28already ends up like the App Store app is like that I think and a couple other ones.

0:12:33And Apple's apps are going to have a translucent side bar in Apple's apps are going to have to you know trends

0:12:37and thought about it like it's not going to transform all your apps into this crazy translucent think so for the most

0:12:43part what most people that Macs are going to look like is their existing absolute different title bars different fonts

0:12:49in the menus in a different doc but everything else looking more or less the same

0:12:55and I don't know if Apple will be able to get everybody on board the hey everybody make all your cyber Stranglers

0:13:00and make all your talk about strangles and talk with content underneath

0:13:03but I don't know if they're going to go in that direction so I'm trying to think about what real Max will look like

0:13:09growing up seventy not what we saw in the in the keynote.

0:13:13Yeah I don't know the other thing that struck me about the the visual refresh was

0:13:18when I saw Windows seven for the first time in this is

0:13:21when I'd already had a mac at this point I was already all in on the West hand I felt like what do they call the

0:13:26Windows seven refresh visual refresh I can remember now it doesn't matter but anyway

0:13:30but where everything I write something no it's not it was premature

0:13:34but anyway the point is it was all very translucent and similar ideas

0:13:38and I actually thought from the very first time I saw it that the Windows seven stuff looked pretty good.

0:13:42I agree with with Marco especially with this odd amounts of translucence where um translates into one thing here

0:13:49but I'm trying to listen to this other thing they're era by the way if you like in the chatter.

0:13:53It's what I hear Oh yes thank you.

0:13:56So Arrow I thought looked great from the beginning and I don't even know if Microsoft is back pedal.

0:14:00On that or not but but this is new O.S.'s can set up good but I have my reservation.

0:14:06Something like I don't think your screen is going to look like that I think it's going to look like what you what it

0:14:10looks like now and then like Safari might look different to mail it to her most your absolute will will look the same.

0:14:14That's for me like the whole thing with the translucency and as to what and to what

0:14:20and why are these things translate and that is always the question.

0:14:24And if Apple job I think to to justify why some of them want to do this to their application because there are

0:14:31downsides in terms of readability in terms of variability is this something that people want does it look really

0:14:36awesome and people like Rush metal justification is basically people think it looks cool

0:14:40and so everybody made their apps brush metal whether it was

0:14:42or not that was you know if you were to ask why should people do this like well people people think it's cool

0:14:47and they did think it out on these brush

0:14:48and everywhere Well I don't know if people think this translucent is all that called me I was something has it as well

0:14:54I grant the A.P.I.

0:14:55Is not as open so everyone can go hog wild with it

0:14:57but it will really depend on whether people think it's worth adopting a thing because if they don't it's just I was ten.

0:15:05But everything you know candy colored

0:15:07and I was having a fight you didn't say during the keynote that the idea was to give you some context within your

0:15:12document which I don't really I mean what is that sound I mean like previously I wasn't aware that my document

0:15:18continued off the top of this page

0:15:19or another like the green image showing through my title bar I'm aware that it goes off of that like how does a pariah

0:15:24do any more contact than simply clipping the image of that point or got right

0:15:27and showing you know always showing a scroll bar so you can see the scroll position.

0:15:31I forget which where they were using I don't think context

0:15:33or they didn't have a talking point of like how translucency provides it like one.

0:15:36One thing was like you can pick your desktop background that will influence how your absolute personality dustup back

0:15:42and shelter in your apps is that something that people want they want the personality of the desktop background showing

0:15:47through in their apps that just want to use their apps like read their mail and stuff

0:15:49and I want to see the desk you have energy and it looks like a big mess

0:15:52but again these are all opt in things your apps aren't going to come become translucent Apple's obviously opting into

0:15:58them and they will be.

0:16:00Good test bed

0:16:00and it will be interesting to see if if this is something people want whether developers think it was going they ship

0:16:05it to people and people complain or developers never even ship it

0:16:08and it just ends up being a different looking back to us.

0:16:10But so in anything else a visual refresh because I mean I think that's pretty much all I had to say about I think the

0:16:17idea of them redoing trying to constrain the icons into the into the different arrangements of having circle icons

0:16:25and square icons and having all the little slanty they show them people taking pictures of the I'm extreme

0:16:30but I'm sure there's more of showing all the little slanted rectangle icons all looking identical identically slanted

0:16:36and everything that's a reasonably unification is a nice middle ground between people thinking oh ten is going to get

0:16:41around Rex rolls I can't it's not right.

0:16:43There are still distinction and again I think their parties might just ignore this

0:16:47and say what's good for you Apple you can do whatever the hell you want your icons

0:16:50or still making our car icons look we want so I think there will be a continued tension between what Apple is doing

0:16:57with your family and what third party developers do with it

0:16:59and it might be a little weird kind like I was seven as were some apps just don't come all the way on the Iowa seven

0:17:05trains you've got these apps that you know there I can't even change since I was six

0:17:09and there are interfaces may be different but they don't look like I was seven.

0:17:13They still don't have the I was five or the i Phone five screen size support not that bad.

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0:18:32Speak of a go another like web type applications you know all the web apps that started to change their look to look

0:18:37like Iowa seven after Iowa seven came out.

0:18:40Hey I'm just glad that websites are still trying to like Iowa sold well that look terrible right.

0:18:45But I lot of web a lot of people have either Web Components their products

0:18:48or have web apps took the hint from you know Windows eight as well

0:18:51but also Iowa seven especially in the Macworld to make their websites look like that

0:18:54and with the change in look of oh S.

0:18:56Ten now that turns out to be a good move me even Apple is doing it like they should

0:19:00but the app store looks like about the regime or the new App Store app on the Mac.

0:19:05Looks all different like that that look like kind of like flat candy color look if you do that everywhere across your

0:19:11website on your I.R.S.

0:19:12Device

0:19:13and now the MCE switched over to it I was that was good planning because people like that look at simple it's clean

0:19:18and now it is across the entire Apple platform.

0:19:22So this keynote was to some degree wonderful and terrible for me

0:19:27and it was wonderful because they announce that we're getting air drop between devices between between O.S.'s I guess I

0:19:34should say between Yosemite and between I would say which is great

0:19:38but the downside was was that we also learned later on that there's this hand-off thing that that where if you will say

0:19:47working on an e-mail or something like that

0:19:50and then you want to finish that e-mail you work on on the phone you want to finish it on your computer

0:19:56and then all of a sudden you can just see mail through.

0:20:00The ether through them is through the air and on to the computer and that sounds awesome

0:20:04and I'm really enthusiastic about it.

0:20:06However I do think and they never confirmed or denied that that's probably using Bluetooth low energy

0:20:12and none of my Macs a beautiful energy you could be using airdrop Roberts between them

0:20:17and a supposed to be the whole idea is its proximity base so it's not it's not like they mention like oh you won't you

0:20:23won't have things from your home showing up on your work computer or vice versa so could be bootable

0:20:26and could also be airdrop it uses that like ad hoc right why fine networking you have

0:20:30and I think all of it requires developer support like this is not magic. So Apple's Mail.

0:20:37If you use Apple mailing or mac and use Apple now in your I O. S.

0:20:40Device then yeah you can do that but what if you use something else on either one of those places

0:20:45or one of the things you use a developer has an added support for this.

0:20:48It still seems like a thing that you have to do and it could kind of be fidgety enough that like demos really well

0:20:54but I don't know.

0:20:55Like I understand the frustration of getting out because I know when I'm doing something on one device

0:20:58and I want to just transition to it over there it would be nice everything picked up this requires so many parties to

0:21:05cooperate

0:21:06and everything to work for that handoff to work like getting the handoff to work could end up feeling like from the

0:21:12user's perspective more trouble than it's worth.

0:21:14Like maybe just better to save it as a draft then go over

0:21:17and take the draft over there like you think the old things that we used to be in them as well

0:21:21and I think it's a good idea for this program skeptical about how seamless it will really be in real life so what you

0:21:27think about to say I think it's going be one of those things like notification sinking between devices

0:21:33and how you know we were talking last week how it seems to be disgraced period in current infrastructure we have now

0:21:38where like if you get in I message into your computer the windows focused on your phone will buzz in your pocket.

0:21:43But if you don't attend to it within the few seconds your phone will buzz and like it's that kind of thing

0:21:47and they have worked on it over time

0:21:49and it has it has gotten better over time it's still not perfect it's gotten better.

0:21:53This is probably of the same kind of thing where it's going to start out probably a little wonky

0:21:58and then get better over time. Actually I'm just hopeful that it is the pure pure wife I thing.

0:22:06I'm skeptical but I'm hopeful and we'll see what happens. But what else did we learn a West and why.

0:22:13Well I mean one thing that's a very interesting I think

0:22:16and I don't know where to talk with that is the i Cloud Dropbox basically yeah we talk about whether there are

0:22:22backpedaled with or they just decided to show the file system or would they try to figure out something else

0:22:27and this is kind of like an interesting compromise but what it seems to me is that they wanted to have their cake

0:22:32and eat it too which is they wanted to have the existing i Cloud experience which is just like there is no file system

0:22:37you know to worry about that every apple in the stone files everything's and i Cloud everything is ubiquitous

0:22:42and available everywhere. They wanted to keep that because I think that's good right.

0:22:47But they also wanted to add the ability for people who knew what they were doing to have something that was more like

0:22:53Dropbox

0:22:54and they didn't want to destroy one of the other so they want to make it so like if you're if you're using the system

0:22:59the way you've been using for the past several years it will look the same to you but if you know what to do with

0:23:03and suddenly you get the equivalent of an Open Save dialog box showing you like you know the i Cloud Sidebottom

0:23:08suddenly shows you documents and what I think will happen is once you put icon in a sidebar in the Finder.

0:23:12People are going to click on it people going to learn to make new folders there people are going to use it

0:23:16and they'll end up using it like Dropbox

0:23:19and I think Dropbox has proven that if you can see it's doesn't make any sense

0:23:24but if you constrain the world of the file system to a single place that they can hang their hat on like it's in my

0:23:30Dropbox or it's on my desktop. People are fine with that.

0:23:33It doesn't matter that the number of levels of higher given create under that are the same as they can make any place

0:23:37else. It just gives them a starting point to make them feel comfortable.

0:23:40So now with i Cloud in the sidebar for people who imagine someone who gets a computer like oh you should install

0:23:47Dropbox

0:23:47and you know they can't install Dropbox you know that it's that phrase you should install Dropbox like Greek to them.

0:23:52Well I don't know what you mean I don't know how to install software I don't know is there a Web site do I do something

0:23:56to download a disk image do I get it like nobody knows us just like look.

0:24:00Go your finder and the Cyber the thing called i Cloud anything you put there.

0:24:03When you're you know you can put stuff there and you'll see it everywhere

0:24:07and that is like Dropbox it's a folder the things are now i Cloud the cloud it sinks.

0:24:11We hope you know I mean all this while to see how reliable it is

0:24:15but it's a reasonable compromise I like that it acknowledges the fact that Apple has failed to come up with something

0:24:21so much better that eliminates all the evils of our system

0:24:24and I think we've taken less so Dropbox is like the file system is big

0:24:27and confusing that if you constrain it to this one place whether it makes sense

0:24:32or not people suddenly are able a larger group of people are suddenly able to deal with it.

0:24:36Not everybody but a larger group. Yeah and I think it's is also this has a huge value in P.R.

0:24:43For Apple because now it you know i Cloud is always is this umbrella term that refers to lots of different things most

0:24:51of which are behind the scenes. If you talk about this and then he went in last week.

0:24:58This is now a very public facing version of i Cloud

0:25:01and it works the way people expect modern quote cloud things to work.

0:25:05It's a cloud sync service for this folder full of files that's exactly what people want form from a cloud service today.

0:25:12You know for the most part you know there's this if you don't top it up but this is what people want

0:25:16and this is going to be this big thing in everyone's face uses a max And look it's i Cloud works we get it we're in the

0:25:23cloud.

0:25:23We are doing web services and they mostly work most of the time

0:25:27and it comes of it it comes with your MAC a use of the i Cloud account but they make you set up when you install the O.

0:25:32S.

0:25:32So

0:25:32when you set up the device like you don't have to go to a third party where all the advantages of being part of the platform

0:25:37you know all those barriers that prevented people from getting Dropbox installed

0:25:40and in fact I think there are there are new A.P.I.

0:25:44Is in Austin and in Iowa so I just want to talk about the whole extensions they call extensions.

0:25:49Probably that's right that was in the Iowa section but extensions applied O S ten as well

0:25:53and so there are you know engines in oh S ten that will let For example Dropbox make their application better.

0:25:59So Apple is not.

0:26:00Saying oh i Cloud is built and will be able to do drop by if you like things

0:26:03but in fact we're helping Dropbox out here too or helping ourselves out as well.

0:26:08For example in not having Dropbox in memory hacked the Finder to put those little badges on all your icon to show it

0:26:13could be raining like that. They've got an official A.B.I.

0:26:16For that through extensions which is their safe mechanism for extending functionality

0:26:20and I think the the notification widget things are similar there are those under the umbrella of extensions.

0:26:26I believe it's the i Cloud Drive thing struck me as so interesting for a couple reasons firstly it was the tangible

0:26:34manifestation of Dropbox as a feature not a product and I thought that was kind of interesting.

0:26:39And then secondly this was the I believe the first thing we saw of a series of different features an enhancement some

0:26:49products and whatnot that are all heavily relying on i Cloud

0:26:53and maybe I am amongst a group of people that are giving I caught a bad rap for no really good reason

0:26:59and I want to let you know.

0:27:02But they're like if they double down on secrecy which it appears they have they have like quadruple down on i Cloud

0:27:09being the sort the boss for their entire ecosystem.

0:27:14And on print in principle that's wonderful

0:27:16but that's a lot of pressure to put on a system that I'm not so sure can hand you know they were saying a lot of the

0:27:21right things like for example I forget where maybe this was in the state of being around supposed talk about over one

0:27:27one of the services they were talking about. They mention push notifications in connection with it.

0:27:34And as we said on past shows like Push Notifications is one of the things is under the I caught umbrella that seems to

0:27:40work pretty well and we're all hoping that like you know more like that less like I was born

0:27:45and this presentation is I mean maybe says optimistic thing but like when they show these things

0:27:49and like I have I'm optimistic that these new things will be more like push notifications

0:27:55and less like the things that I don't know although I messages I mean they added tons of stuff time as well.

0:28:00Oh and that still continues to be a little bit weird

0:28:03and creepy So yeah you're right they really put a lot of eggs in this like about basket

0:28:06and basically what Apple is doing is I'm assuming forcing themselves to get better at this crap like by their fear they

0:28:13will he disastrous if they continue to from Bull and keep putting more

0:28:16and more important things into the i Cloud basket.

0:28:19I'm actually pretty confident in what they're doing because it seems like you know Casey said like you know they're

0:28:24building a lot of this stuff on what appears to be the push notifications flash part of i Cloud And that seems to be

0:28:32the part that is operating at probably the biggest scale and is probably the most reliable

0:28:37and a sign of people Highnesses problems here and there

0:28:39but we don't know how much that is related to like the like the client side software it seems like the server side

0:28:45and of that in the push notification the whole push just them isn't really rock solid for the vast majority of its

0:28:52existence

0:28:52and certainly recently so I'm actually pretty confident that the i Cloud part of this is probably not going to be a

0:29:00problem.

0:29:01Other parts of it you know the like the client side code might be right but it seems like the i Cloud services

0:29:06and of what they're doing you know and people you know i Cloud core data sync was it was a disaster

0:29:11but that was also probably mostly a client side and design issue design of that I mean Larry you're even like

0:29:17and documents in the cloud or those like a lot of those things kind of work but had weird things about them

0:29:24or you know say start of a synchronous and they made them asynchronous and there's like not a right ability and

0:29:28when it doesn't work even today like if you want apples notes Apple

0:29:31and you know there are notes that you put on your i was device the notes have to sit there for a while

0:29:36and then eventually or not show up you hope they don't like you have no recourse like there's no visibility

0:29:41and that's that's why moving it like I caught in the sidebar I'm putting stuff there for documents I mean it is they

0:29:46give you some visibility into what's going on but the other the other A.B.I.

0:29:50Sprint I mean that's that's still a problem with their cloud system they get making a better from a developer's

0:29:53perspective how developers can tell what the hell going on

0:29:55but from a user perspective man the stuff that works because you have nowhere to go over doesn't you just just.

0:30:00If your app is not even a busy indicator just like my stuff they're going to come it's not you know aren't they.

0:30:07But they did mention and I think this is in the Indiait session so I'll be very vague

0:30:11but I believe they mentioned that their dog food being a lot of the stuff they're providing to developers so a lot of

0:30:16the stuff that they're giving developers they're using those A.P.I. For their own new features and application.

0:30:24Yeah there was that was heartening Although it's like it it's helpful like that what that means is that if they did a

0:30:32bad job Apple know about it that is the best thing about it the least I know right it a bad job

0:30:37and doesn't telling me that a good job in the kind of bad if they didn't is now.

0:30:40Now this grant their own services their own headline features are screwed up by their own bad guys

0:30:44but presumably because they are dog footing it they'll find out that it's bad

0:30:47and won't just be this like it won't we all had to wait for like developer backlash like Apple don't engineers to be

0:30:52like your service I crap is broken and I can't shiplap because it's broken.

0:30:56So is there anything else it's fun and exciting to talk about before we go

0:31:00and I just want one more thing that I don't we're not done with I was ten

0:31:03and they were the note of notification center sidebar on the widgets there

0:31:06and like everyone's like what does that mean for dashboard where is that word. And they didn't say anything about it.

0:31:12Pretty should ask were still there.

0:31:14And Yosemite gazing Kanada said because well they didn't see the implication is that you should probably not get too

0:31:21attached right.

0:31:22You know but anyway like this is a grace period it seems like that but nothing about the future of dashboard

0:31:26but anyone who knows anything about Apple will know that the future desk was not bright

0:31:30and this is not the same next year it's gone

0:31:32and this is Jason just pulled a dashboard in Yosemite I'm staring out anyway.

0:31:36But like this is not news like Dashboard has been kind of stagnant

0:31:40and just sitting there doing nothing for it for many many years that is a pretty old feature where they come in

0:31:45and for something like that. Yeah some of them.

0:31:47It's been around for a long time I use it every day I still think it's great

0:31:50but it's clear that it's not just like this year that Apple decided to kill it

0:31:54and it died of natural causes actually so desperate still there you continue to use it in Yosemite.

0:32:00I don't know how much longer it will be around

0:32:01and I bet most people won't mourn it even though I will because I think it's kind of cool.

0:32:05And you can't I mean it's not it's not a direct replacement like the notification center in your sidebar right that's

0:32:10part of the whole screen.

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0:33:19when you have done it before you probably feel like how will I know how they will look on my face.

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0:33:46pick out up to five styles of glasses that you think might look good on you or look at in the preview thing

0:33:52and they will send them to you and you can try them on in your home. Risk free. They send you for free.

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0:34:57I've told the story a hundred times and I'll make it really quick but

0:35:01when I got a set of Warby Parker sunglasses I put in like forced four pairs maybe three pairs of sunglasses that I that

0:35:08were my stereotypical like this is Casey style and then I put in a pair

0:35:12or two that were just completely not the sort of sunglasses I would normally buy.

0:35:16And sure enough the ones that I ended up choosing were one of the ones that I didn't expect to like so it actually ends

0:35:21up working out pretty well.

0:35:24So really quickly real time follow up with regard to dashboard I believe the quote as I was informed by Jason was we

0:35:33suggest you quickly adopt this new technology with regard to with regard to the notification center which is basically

0:35:40Apple code for this is going to die. Prepare yourselves.

0:35:43Yeah and this board was like a weird one off thing where these H.T.M.L.

0:35:47You kind of waiters or whatever whereas their replacement is part of a larger system that spans bull I.O.'s analyst

0:35:52and its extension system and I mean maybe there's just an umbrella term

0:35:55and there's no real relation technologically we haven't learned the details yet but they're using that term to say.

0:36:00You can write extensions for it we just I mean people not only is another extension as we are to use that term once I'm

0:36:05on the mac and has bad connotations these are different and I O.

0:36:10As it has a totally different thing when you get to it all

0:36:12but I always say these new widget things on the sidebar are part of that system it's a way to extend the system

0:36:18and I look forward to new ways to going to that is what this means that Apple has basically come up with a way for both

0:36:23I.O.'s and the mac for people to write system extensions to extend the functionality of the system

0:36:29and the whole idea has been like an arrow it will let you put a mike on and then you are

0:36:33but you should really make a black and white. Because we have made you know and we will if you move your eyes around.

0:36:37We only do that with ours yours is going to random order to upload download bartender so I'm hoping this is the dawning

0:36:45certainly on I O.

0:36:46Us is the dawning of a new age of expanding this is

0:36:48and I'm hoping on the mac as well that it's a sort of a renaissance of extending the mac in interesting

0:36:54and safe ways

0:36:55and Apple approved ways versus the old way which is just like third parties figure out how to get it done.

0:37:00You don't think you know as a whole and perhaps this relates more nihilists than the mac

0:37:05but I felt the keynote as a whole was an exercise in Apple doing all the things that we never thought they'd do.

0:37:11They gave us a whole bunch of foetid Well sort of gave us a whole bunch of photo storage.

0:37:16They all are allowing extensions like you were saying both on the West hand which is to be expected but also an I O. S.

0:37:22Including stuff as wild as replacing system keyboard when there are a couple of things now I'm drawn a blank

0:37:28but they were so swift they're only hire expensive thing I mean I get huge thing right there.

0:37:33But these are these are all the there are all these things that we all I think the three of us everyone really have

0:37:38been saying oh they've got to do this

0:37:40but they're not going to do it because they're Apple they're they're stubborn they're belligerent

0:37:43but I don't think it's like a stubbornness

0:37:45or like a philosophical objection a lot of us feel like Previously there was a philosophical objection now that is

0:37:50changing but with a lot of these things it's like Apple always wanted to do them but it had to wait for certain things.

0:37:56And on i OS which I guess will transition to soon anyway but like this. And I was like we don't have the C.P.U.

0:38:02To do that we don't have the memory right there you don't have the whatever like background and stuff

0:38:06and because they just had parties and didn't fit into them

0:38:09and you know for the sandbox of like that we don't have a safe way to do that and so all of that was like

0:38:14when we have the C.P.U.

0:38:16when We have the memory when we've come up with a safe way for you to do it we will let you do it

0:38:20but not before then not like I would just add it.

0:38:22I know you can get this to work look if I go to the you know the jailbreak stores I get something does this right now

0:38:28but which is on a large screen it's like Apple wanted to come up with everything had to be in place in the filing that

0:38:33been a place that we have to have a safe way for you to do things so you're not compromising the stability of the

0:38:38system so you're not allowing malware if you're not doing all you know

0:38:40or your own privacy as well because they talk about how extensions.

0:38:44Very briefly they spoke about how extensions are going to be Sam boxed in this might be in the end a sessions I should

0:38:50probably shut up but suffice to say they took not only security of the system

0:38:53but also your information out in the charity very clearly if you like all the things they prioritize for you know you

0:38:59are safe using I was in these ways

0:39:01and we're not going to let you do do all the things that you guys all want to do until we have safe ways to do it

0:39:07within the current global hardware and this and then of course it's a lot of work for them to make as a guide

0:39:12and this is the year this is the year where they finally they have crossed the threshold for all these things

0:39:16and the probably is a thoughtful aspect of it as well

0:39:19and it has some been so much shake up at the high levels of management that you can't discount that as one of the

0:39:23possible reasons but you have to just look at it look at the way they're giving us all the stuff

0:39:28and all of that is not the same way that the jailbreak stories gave it to us it is an official supported A.P.I.

0:39:33That works with their existing sandboxing and prioritization stuff on the Macas well as when I was yeah.

0:39:39So as a way to transition from MAC to Iowa last I want to briefly talk about I forget what they called it what their

0:39:46marketing term for it was but when you can send traditional S.M.S.

0:39:50Messages via the mac

0:39:52but it's at the your i Phone does the sending you can actually even take VO as a little blue phone elite. Yeah.

0:40:00Years ago right is very much in the demo you might be mistaken for thing it's like oh I've been able to do that on

0:40:05Google Voice for years but it's paired with your phone.

0:40:08You know i Phone none of this stuff work right but I got Yeah

0:40:11but at the same time though I get a third party products that would basically say you've got a phone

0:40:15but you want to do stuff that your phone could only do on your mac screen and just connect the dots

0:40:19and it looks really nice and is very seamless

0:40:21and it's something that was like yeah that should that should work that way why do I have to go and pick up the phone

0:40:26or do you know having that having the caller ID Schober the notification having to be able to answer that call from

0:40:31your mac like it's using your phone.

0:40:34But they're all in the same house even if it's another room they're all connected on the same network why shouldn't

0:40:38this work and made it work. Now I hope it works well.

0:40:41And here again I hope it doesn't rely on Bluetooth all energy I presume in the case of phone calls it certainly

0:40:46wouldn't.

0:40:47But nevertheless I just it's a really impressive and it's a really impressive way to leverage a platform

0:40:53and really do what you would hope and expect these things to do and I'm really excited about that.

0:40:59So with that in mind let's kind of shift gears I.O.'s there's so much to talk about I don't even know where to be a

0:41:06member and I said it I was it was going to be like the Mavericks of i OS was just you know not a lot on the outside

0:41:11and you know some stuff on the inside but this is way bigger than a Mavericks release.

0:41:16It's true that it didn't change the appearance that much like very little visually has been changed

0:41:19but of the number of to have that changing every other part of my life is just huge. Yeah it's really surprising.

0:41:25There are a couple things that jumped out at me really quickly because the things that have been that have really

0:41:29bothered me over the years. They didn't talk a lot about it in the keynote but it seems like the four messages in S.

0:41:37Amasses and things like that. It seems like all media is a femoral by default if you look closely at the keynote.

0:41:43After like an image

0:41:45or after one of these audio clips that's I believe new after video clip after each of these it says keep.

0:41:51Yeah and so the implication I think they made a very quick mention of it

0:41:55but the implication was if you don't hit the keep button in the next three days.

0:42:00Or whatever the number may be then that's just going to go away and

0:42:03and I especially have lamented numerous times about how I had gigs upon gigs will probably animated gifs

0:42:09but one of the other gigs upon gigs of photos in my in my messages app on my phone that I didn't really need

0:42:18and I didn't really want I wanted them to go away I wanted them to do that easily and quickly in this.

0:42:22This seems like it's probably going to be the answer for that.

0:42:25Yeah I mean they they did so I mean

0:42:27and this leads very very closely to the photos discussion I think the I mean you know this.

0:42:31So to recap basically they they announced this new a few a few things around photos that basically like you know what

0:42:40it's basically what people wanted which is like you know photo stream as a as like a standalone thing is kind of going

0:42:46away as what it was before you started to shared socially that's more of a you know feature

0:42:50but as a storage mechanism photo stream has been massively upgraded now you just have all of your photos

0:42:55or are just in i Cloud and they use use your i Cloud storage which now has a couple of bigger cheaper plans

0:43:03and you know it's not we're not talking about like revolutionary president it was really it was two hundred gigs for

0:43:09four bucks a month and we get whatever was it was like twenty gigs for four bucks

0:43:14or are the lands I mean it's much cheaper than it was right.

0:43:18But like it's still not like you know Google level you guys

0:43:21and we don't have enough information yet to see what this is really like but they said the right thing is

0:43:25when you know one of the they said that the I'm glad about was his that we keep your folder as pictures of riches

0:43:30and videos

0:43:31and videos which is a posed remark I was saying in the past shows that like if Apple needs to they should just do a

0:43:38little rest of they can handle arrivals basically saying no actually we can handle it.

0:43:41Not only can we handle your Horace pictures we're handling your video too which seems crazy but go for it right

0:43:47and then the pricing that it's like all that announcement means nothing unless they adjust the price

0:43:51and they did adjust the prices have adjusted enough we'll see but the previous pricing was crazy

0:43:55and all unitive Well now I'm not in love with this price because it was at five gigs. For free.

0:44:01Which I just think it's a little low that is reduced

0:44:03and I think it was twenty gigs is that what you're saying twenty gigs was sunny in two hundred one any good to have

0:44:08like went up to a terabyte within say how much those cost

0:44:10but it I mean either way we're talking you know it's it's not dirt cheap

0:44:14but it's not that expensive you know you know you're not paying like S three rates for this you know we would hope what

0:44:19we would hope is that say you're so you're starting off with another customer now and you're just becoming an adult

0:44:25and taking pictures of it like we would hope that as you accumulate pictures of Apple's pricing keeps pace

0:44:30and comes down but for people with existing large collections of we're going to look at that and do the math

0:44:35and say Is this worthwhile thing to us and they didn't mention anything about i Photo

0:44:38and I have no idea what the fate of I thought it was

0:44:40and they showed this Photos app which is like no island you know at the ferry I was you know because the I was sort of

0:44:45that doesn't do anything close to this I thought oh I was too you know I mean the photograph of the highlights

0:44:49and also our photo and I think I think I thought I was going with that board.

0:44:52I don't know early on it

0:44:54and use out of the same like the whole idea that you know can you take your photo collection

0:44:58and just put it all in the cloud

0:45:00and do all your photos that way I don't know the answer to that as yet I don't think that the keynote gave us a ration

0:45:06to know that.

0:45:06Well I think it's I think the implication is very clear you know I photo has always had this problem where on you know

0:45:13it was I thought it was originally conceived in a world before the i Phone and sync and it never had multi device

0:45:19and everything else and and photo stream kind of like half assed it in there but it wasn't a very good solution

0:45:24and certainly was very confusing and then and then the i Phone comes out of the i Pad comes out

0:45:28and they have this Photos app which is not my photo.

0:45:31These are distinctly not I have a little and it has its own way to do things and store things to manage things

0:45:35and they bring i Photo to I O. S.

0:45:37Which is weird because they didn't replace photos with it they just brought this other photo measure program which I

0:45:42thought I was in my opinion has never been good but maybe that's just me

0:45:46but certainly I don't think has gotten like a lot of style

0:45:48and how could i Photo be any good I was have all your photos are in the photo happily That seems like what they've done

0:45:53has brought that same dichotomy to the MAC and I don't understand why i Photo can't be the same app it is today

0:45:59but all the photos.

0:46:00Already done the i Cloud way so I think I think the new photos up on the map they should of us coming up next next

0:46:06spring on this it is not. They said next year and so they are not tied to an O. S.

0:46:11Release and it's not read like it got pushed basic like you did not read it it didn't make it into Yosemite.

0:46:16Right so I'm some pretty sure the implication there though is that the new photos aftermath of coming next year is the

0:46:21replacement for I thought oh yeah

0:46:23but what I showed was not what they showed with the I.O.'s photos up inside a window with a little toolbar doesn't come

0:46:28close to like doing keywords and maps and slide shows and all the stuff that I will. Photos up on an i O. S.

0:46:36Already has much I don't have the man himself but it has like the maps and the albums

0:46:40and getting a lot of them already I'm I think the implication of where the going is very clear like I sort of go in the

0:46:45way this is the replacement.

0:46:47We're just not I mean the giving of the from the photos in the cloud like it's what we're talking about with messages

0:46:53what they're basically saying is some of these photos will be on your local device

0:46:56but you have access to more photos like I mean EVER pics that you didn't have every single foreign for a library on

0:47:00your phone just because you upload pics but you could scroll through all of them and you can show anyone of them

0:47:04and Apple is doing that now saying yeah we're going to do that to all your photos can't be on your I with the AIs will

0:47:10store your photos but you can get to all of them from your eye with their eyes

0:47:13and you can get to them all from your mac sometime next year that's what we're looking for a unified photo right.

0:47:18Right protected in the cloud. Hopefully locally cash on your Macin are big enough and some of them on your phone.

0:47:23Yeah and if the if the mac version is good enough and able to and willing to also import S.L.R.

0:47:31Pictures and pictures from from stand alone cameras then that will be amazing.

0:47:38You know I don't know it I think it's it's very very clear where they're going. I think I agree. Aperture.

0:47:44It's I would think if you have to continue to I think it probably does but yeah I believe the pro stuff a lag

0:47:49but like the whole idea it's what we want we want to have local fast access to our photos

0:47:54but you are not to worry that if our if our computers die that we lose our photos so we want Apple to this story.

0:48:00Back then the cloud having to be have to be think everywhere

0:48:02but half assed local copies an aperture at the POE out they be like well the prob people don't want their stuff in a

0:48:08cloud of tubing anyway so let us have a lot of the hard drives

0:48:11but you know you can't this is going to come like that the whole idea of sort of a transparent storage hierarchy where

0:48:17the canonical version is stored in a data center somewhere really safely for you hopefully not an age of us plus and

0:48:23and all your local your local versions are like just cashes out and there being a thinker and eyes

0:48:28and everything is fast because a local caching and it's all seamless.

0:48:31That's where that's where all storage is going

0:48:33and for giant bins of data that we have in our giant bins are basically photos and video for regular people.

0:48:38That's what we want for storage hierarchy that ends in the cloud and that is transparent to us

0:48:42and I feel like the photos set up that that Apple's building still grumbling about the price

0:48:49but if that's the most of my complaints then we're still doing a pretty good job

0:48:53and I'm really looking forward to it I'm really looking for trying it the only thing I wonder though is how we going to

0:48:59get the years upon years upon years of photos that we've already taken in volume that's nothing like they came out with

0:49:05a new version of I thought or of the photos up is the new version of i Photo import them

0:49:09or try to say OK now we're just going transparently make your eye for a library in the cloud of the writer ever

0:49:14but you know that you know there's a path that they talk about in the keynote the cloud that cloud kit for like a slide

0:49:20and a half

0:49:20or a group like ninety second I mean it was it was quick Did they mention the what you get with it in terms of the

0:49:27storage limits over that only in the state of being I know they did they went over very quickly they said it was free

0:49:32with limits and you get like they were.

0:49:35We don't we can't the limits were not stated so we didn't know they were known as the documents that yeah they said

0:49:41free with limits and those limits are pretty darn high.

0:49:45We could say from that as we've seen so high that I don't understand how Apple is able to give to provide the cloud get

0:49:52free with limits to the looks too good to be true to correct.

0:49:56They did give the limits in the presentation for like what the global like.

0:50:00You know you store whatever petabytes of data they did set up ready to tell you when you get per user right.

0:50:04Well right.

0:50:04Yes that's interesting though because so the video of the petabytes that they're saying if you make an I.O.I.

0:50:09SAP and say Your I was Apple going to start something big like you know audio files or video

0:50:13or whatever for the limits are like with the free thing before you start paying any money is all you can store petabyte

0:50:20of data for all uses of your app combined we don't know if that whether anything is per user or whatever

0:50:24but why is it that if you develop an app you could to start from very well if you want to store your photos i Cloud you

0:50:30had to pay ninety nine cents to get like twenty gigs and three dollars to get two hundred gigs.

0:50:34Only the per user what you get per user I don't I don't say but it's pretty small.

0:50:41I think it's safe to say that like it's it's you have to have a lot of use and I guess that's always limit

0:50:47but still in the bottom line is that you make some viral app like candy crush

0:50:50and you store a bunch of crappy content for everybody

0:50:54and you run into the pet of Apple is still going to have your data.

0:50:58Well read Amazon of Microsoft originally it just seems like the pricing is still a little bit out of whack like I would

0:51:04rather see Apple try to like I don't know how to rationalize that I don't know how to rationalize their willingness to

0:51:11do this stuff for free

0:51:12or for an app developer while charging individual users so much more to get I mean I like the new pricing better than

0:51:18the old pricing

0:51:19but I still can't decide whether it's something that that fits with fits with their own offering for active Elbrus

0:51:27or fits with what people are going to be willing to pay for because that's all thing with us.

0:51:31If people if someone gets a mac you know like oh you should probably sign up for i Cloud

0:51:34and do this monthly bill like that's going to be a hard sell on people you know.

0:51:38And same thing with the you know when you get your I WAS device

0:51:40and you run into the free storage limit you know to say oh well you have to pay money now

0:51:45and it just seems a little like a bait and switch I would rather have it be more upfront

0:51:48and we have some assurance that this is something that regular people are going to do the wrong to take advantage of

0:51:53and that is a price that we're going to deal with instead of having creep up on you.

0:51:57Yeah I know and some of them follow closely the limits.

0:52:00These are are made public in a public document which will put in the show notes if I remember to which I probably won't

0:52:04because I'm very hungry and tired. It is one hundred megs per user for assets.

0:52:08One meg for database and then there are some translators but yet I will limit their pain

0:52:14but Apple's You couldn't build Instagram with that like that would probably hit that you know you have to have like a

0:52:20wildly popular app that just save like high scores or talk up like that

0:52:23but still again Apple's willing this is like go ahead try to find try to make an app that has three hundred million

0:52:28users then we will end up story upset about you but somehow that's OK with them and I think you know this

0:52:34and there are limits of cloud kit as far as far as we know we haven't learned much about it yet

0:52:39and I have a list at the docks much of that on time

0:52:42but as far as we can tell it this is not going to let you build a website.

0:52:46Now I don't even run anything server side as far as we know.

0:52:49Yeah it seems like it's all local could all client side code that tells the servers roughly what to do

0:52:54but it's it's like you know factors of it's like it doesn't seem like there's a way for instance like like for free

0:52:59with with overcast really underscore with with feed regularly to do this in there's a way to like run persistent

0:53:04crawlers on on their servers and have the notify you

0:53:07when new stuff comes in like that if they do have the notification thing but like the client has to pick up that data

0:53:13or generate that data to tell other clients that it's available it is like you're serious.

0:53:18Right exactly and you know and so can the web version you can have.

0:53:21Obviously windows are and drivers

0:53:23and so it's it's still a very limited system it's not going to replace servers for a lot of people it's not like you're

0:53:29not going to build next Instagram with this because the next Instagram is going to have to we're going to have one

0:53:33hundred some point but it is an improvement like you can take it is a different take on one core data.

0:53:41I caught you know because now we have to have a skinless database with you know queries that they'll run for you to

0:53:47none of your app and that's the bucket you put your thing in but it's like it's a different take

0:53:51and I got a court date in that it's not something that started logo on my cloud it's dark cloud the whole time it's

0:53:56always in the cloud and it's a very similar thing can be done with.

0:54:00Both of them I don't know what the interface is the program like to the make it look like you have a bunch of objects

0:54:03and they magically persist but I mean again they say all the right words

0:54:09and it seems like this will be a more reliable easier to understand easier to debug way to do some of the same tasks

0:54:15that people are currently doing with Cardiff.

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0:56:00Again so I've a couple questions about I.O.'s and then I think we should talk about Swift before we wrap up.

0:56:06Firstly do we know we don't really know anything about identification authentication that sort of thing with regard to

0:56:14cloud can't write because it would be really neat.

0:56:17Even if I didn't use barely anything else with relation i Cloud like say I'm Marko I'm writing overtasked it would

0:56:25sensibly be really great to get the accounts system out of cloud kit

0:56:32but do everything else myself you know just get a token from Cloud kit to identify who this person is

0:56:37and then everything else take care of on my own.

0:56:39We don't know don't write you that already if you want to try cloud I guess you just sort of make yourself a little

0:56:44vestigial I got a document container that you never used.

0:56:47Now what you could do is you could you could just generate like a random key.

0:56:52There are random you know generating random ID and store in key value storage and you could read that later.

0:56:58So that's the but and you know when you base

0:57:00when you base your application i Cloud you get is big benefit of they're already logged into this thing

0:57:05but it also comes with a lot of weird little downsides

0:57:08and complexity is that the sign out of i Cloud to like put their stuff off to the side

0:57:14and get back into it to restored for them

0:57:17and you know right so there's there's a number of weirdness is that now the good thing is something else that that's

0:57:21totally unrelated to this that they announced is the family sharing which I think yeah I think I saw a family sharing

0:57:28you can you can you can have up to like six people if you all have the same credit card which is a good imitation of

0:57:34prevent weird fraud issues you know up to six people have basically pulled the purchases for all the you know i Tunes

0:57:40media as well as apps an app purchases which is awesome because I think this will this will dramatically cut down on

0:57:46people who need to keep signing in

0:57:48and out of different Apple ideas because they have like you know one idea that purchases everything that they share

0:57:52with their wife or their kids or whatever and

0:57:53and it's I think this is going to really help anyway so that's beside the point so if you use i Cloud as an occasion.

0:58:00You're tied to that so

0:58:02and sometimes that isn't what users expect So like if someone signing in to different i Cloud accounts

0:58:08and they launch your podcast app and all of a sudden everything's gone because you know because they sign

0:58:13and they send in two different countdown a movie and they forgot about that they launch they launch your app

0:58:16and your app has no idea who they are where all the stuff is because well you've always been pretty good about giving

0:58:21you a different Apple ID for each of the individual apps like I've learned that setting up all devices for my kids.

0:58:27I'm surprised the number of places they have to go hunt down my Apple I.D.

0:58:30and Remove them and put in you know different applet.

0:58:32Oh I forgot the I message is still fine and in the Oh I forgot that you know that the App Store Asinus me

0:58:38and they're pretty good about spreading around like the big thing with the family is I mean they haven't really

0:58:44finished this job they've just started this job

0:58:47but it's acknowledging that twittering thing of dodging the existence of families is acknowledging how regular people

0:58:52use their products that we exist in families that kids have might have their own devices that you have to get the hammy

0:58:58down devices that we don't want to buy me at multiple times.

0:59:02One of the other nonsense is that in general the family has a family collection of photos whereas individual kids might

0:59:07have individual collection of photos

0:59:09but like you don't know I got to go on my wife's computer because the photo computer that's where our photos are I

0:59:13haven't gotten that point yet for them to know I laugh as I don't type of thing

0:59:16but at the very least acknowledge you kids want to buy stuff you don't want them to be able to sign Internet you can

0:59:23notification on your device that says so and so want to buy something approve

0:59:27or reject like that's what happens in real life anyway and so the building into the O. S.

0:59:31You know electronically which is you know they must all have I.O.'s devices in their family has taken this long to

0:59:38create a product that acknowledges how everybody knows everybody using the products to begin with.

0:59:43Yeah I mean this is this is just one of those things that the the mac crap they unveiled today it's you know like I

0:59:48said I said two weeks ago or last week that Apple lacked server side hustle and that's a good point

0:59:55and I think that's probably still the case in general with their online services but I think.

1:00:00Shows where all the hustles been spent that unfortunate word because all I can think about is the kid it was like

1:00:08running for you know running for with a football or trying to go somewhere for a pass

1:00:13and doesn't get there in time of the coaches are a good hustle good hustle but when I have a good hustle son

1:00:19and sure they are showing hustle I just don't know if they were if they are the kid who wasn't fast enough.

1:00:24The coaches want to sound encouraging anyway.

1:00:26We need we want to see like them catch the touchdown pass not just as a good hustle son well you know it's

1:00:31and it seems like you know server a server and service side stuff.

1:00:35They are still keeping pretty limited

1:00:37but I think they're doing like what we see today what we saw today that they're doing a lot more like like the whole i

1:00:43Cloud Dropbox copy thing I did not expect that at all like that.

1:00:47That was like a line I didn't and they were never cross with i Cloud

1:00:50and it solves a lot of problems that we've talked about with things like that like the file file siloing and

1:00:55and documents filing and how you know how to hang in there like that.

1:00:58When they first showed it the file was a right there look at the folder called keynote that's the keynote silo

1:01:03and look at the folder called pages as the pages so I mean the unification of those apps across of the unification of I

1:01:08work to make them be able to have those silos in both places go though I do

1:01:10and make any sense you'd have like i O S pages versus whatever right.

1:01:14Yeah the silos are still all there the whole idea is that if you just want to be filed like you are now it's fine

1:01:18but this is another way you can look at things and the question is like when I look at that when I look at i Cloud

1:01:23and his keynote and pages or whatever can I make my own folders alongside them.

1:01:26Yes you can do like well who sandbox is that

1:01:28and is that in somebody that in the keynote sandbox is that in the whatever Semites

1:01:32and the answer is No it's not in the document it enters over their pages and over there

1:01:37but within pages on us you can add a little whatever that brings up the I was equivalent of the Open Save dialog box

1:01:43and go to someplace else is not in your document container

1:01:46and get a document like the folder that you made called you know garage sale that's going to be your product for all

1:01:50your crap for the garage sale.

1:01:51Yeah and so you like it's like having their cake

1:01:55and eat it too if you want to work the old way it still works one hundred percent the old way if you want to.

1:02:00The new way you can just pretend that all we're doing this.

1:02:02Just make a bunch of noise is a problem

1:02:04or never look in your document to parents all from like the little extension of the sandbox reaching out

1:02:08and the other world

1:02:09and allowing you to access the files you know I should point out I do not like to look at that quote unquote Open Save

1:02:15dialog I think looks that they never show a list here so I don't know what it looks like with a fair point.

1:02:19Be reasonable.

1:02:20Yeah the other thing I want to talk about really quickly about I.O.'s and maybe you guys have some other stuff too

1:02:24but the leaving and muting of group messages is one under again.

1:02:30Knowledge made of how people like who is there a larger concentration of people who use i Phones and i with devices

1:02:35and Apple employees they must all know what it's like to be friends with the green bubbles you can talk about the not

1:02:41be able to leave the group chats.

1:02:42You know I have to get with the message with the keep button like acknowledging that you had the wrong default like you

1:02:48thought the default would be keep everything about people individually

1:02:51and it turns out that the right default is delete everything but people individually keep Yeah

1:02:55and I'm just so excited I'm excited that you can leave a conversation although it was never made clear to me that this

1:03:01is S.M.S. and I message like maybe this that's why I think I want to clear.

1:03:06Right but not only can you leave a conversation

1:03:09but you can also new to conversation I think they called it a different term

1:03:13but in effect you don't get the buzz in your pocket and so on and but

1:03:19but nevertheless you'll still receive the message. It should be S.M.S.

1:03:21To because they'll just like not like it's a software thing like my already getting the S.M.S.

1:03:25Is there just not you know you could do it all client side essentially.

1:03:28I completely agree with you but I was never made clear

1:03:30and so you know I don't I don't count my chickens where they hatch

1:03:32but I'm extremely extremely excited about that because I get on these group messages and it's like one

1:03:38or two people I know and then like ten random phone numbers

1:03:41and of course nobody's courteous enough to just reply to the author individually

1:03:46and then I'm on these damn conversations that last two days often at odd hours in the morning

1:03:50and that's the most frustrating thing in the world so I'm really excited about that.

1:03:53Anything else about I.O.'s that you got I think they did everything that we ever wanted for I.O.'s except for that we

1:03:59talked about.

1:04:00Except for letting you pick a different of all the positive third party keyboards that

1:04:04when it's on the lock screen didn't do it as in the homes there that it would to the lock screen.

1:04:08You know being able to share documents trying applications for interrupting an occasion they just didn't do it

1:04:13when he's crime is my default browser I don't want to Zap Mail was my default right

1:04:17and that was I mean wishing for that was always been a stretch they might still do it somebody

1:04:20but I think that is exactly I think their part of the war that even more of a stretch like that is that is exactly in

1:04:25the ballpark of the things they did like they did things that are as radical as letting you change or to fall back

1:04:31but you know I mean and you know the entire extension system is just like shockingly robust

1:04:39and just changes everything I mean there's there's this it's going to take us.

1:04:44I was talking about this earlier I think you know all of a sudden now for all of our U.S.

1:04:49History for all you know for a lot of listeners of the show certainly for me people who have been working on i OS apps

1:04:55all this time so far there's been this these entire categories of apps that were impossible

1:05:01or impractical to make an I O.

1:05:03Us entire capabilities that we lacked that we couldn't do well stupid hacks like for instance paper having to make the

1:05:11stupid bookmarklet stupid hacks like that. Hell the entire U.R.L.

1:05:15Scheme thing that we're all that we've been hacking around now like so many of these things are totally obsolete now as

1:05:21an extension system

1:05:23and there's So not only do we have all these existing things we've been doing that will now be able to be a lot better

1:05:29and a lot more robust

1:05:30but there's entire classes of apps that have never been possible to make before that are now possible

1:05:38or entire classes of activities that before you could do what it was so clunky would never really take off

1:05:43and would never really be that much of a good product.

1:05:45Now those things can be native and can be good

1:05:47and it's going to take I would say at least a year for many of us who have been doing this for a while to forget that

1:05:57we can do these things it's like cars.

1:06:00Now we have something to keep building that all came at once in addition to this whole new language that we have to

1:06:03learn which will get to like we have all these new things that we can now do like it's going to take a while for us to

1:06:08feel to finally internalize these things so that we can start building wait a minute we can do X. Y. and Z.

1:06:13Like oh man this would be a good idea for an apple this would be great and hence into our existing app.

1:06:18Now we can do this like it's that list is so long of what you can now do that this is just it's going to be

1:06:25ridiculously good for us I think long term and it's going to take a while to the full facts

1:06:29and they did the obvious invalidation like we were talking about oh what if they let you do an activity sheet thing

1:06:34where you can you know have your thing like add ins to be bred the Penders

1:06:37and like well they do that in every dog his brother is going to have a little stupid icon in the things you

1:06:41and he's some kind of preference you turn them on and off

1:06:43and like with the simplicity of IO as Notification Center as it was the first thing that showed like they're not afraid

1:06:49to give you a wall of check boxes or you know switches in Iowa

1:06:52and so they do that like the obvious implication is you register you're able to hand your old you let the user have a

1:06:57gigantic wall of on off switch is to tell which ones they want to see.

1:07:00Probably done and done like we're all saying like well you can't do that and just like you know they can do that

1:07:05and the great thing about Apple doing it is like the ecosystem they're creating now is not just like one apple vendor

1:07:10managed to do something with

1:07:11and they're like oh my three apps cooperate all the apps are going to be able to cooperate so you were going to be able

1:07:16to reap the benefits or latch on to enhance some other app because if you can work on the same data

1:07:22and integrate with each other you don't need cooperate you don't need third parties to cooperate with each other

1:07:27outside the realm of the star app developer that never knew each other.

1:07:30Can Now the user can now use their apps to work together on a single thing

1:07:34and that's what it's been like in the macro is but now to be like that and i OS where it's really impressive

1:07:38and I feel I feel like we're seeing a whole new owner of progressive is the right word

1:07:44but a whole new progressive Apple that's willing to do the things that we never thought they would be willing to do

1:07:50and I'm really excited about it now granted I'm always amped up and really excited

1:07:54and jazzed after after the keynote and so on but but I I feel more excited today.

1:08:00About not only what we've what they've announced

1:08:03but what we can imagine in the future because all of these impenetrable doors that have been triple locked in cement

1:08:10sealed in welded shut a few of them were blown open today.

1:08:13And so if they're willing to do a new keyboard gosh knows what's going to be willing to do in the future

1:08:19and so I'm really really excited mean.

1:08:20It's almost like they came out with a new they did come out with a new language that in there John.

1:08:25So and I

1:08:26but I think a lot of this is you know a lot of this is decision changes at Apple even possibly it's leadership changes

1:08:32but I think you know what John said earlier is very correct word like you know they were able to do all this stuff

1:08:36because of both hardware varies with the now the ability to have you know more things in memory at once.

1:08:41And also the all the security features that they've added that they have like the infrastructure to enable the writers

1:08:49like many of these features now and now that they are doing them

1:08:53and the way they're doing them now many of them have no downside.

1:08:57Like there's there's no cost to doing this now it's you know there was always a good reason not to before

1:09:02but once you can once you have the infrastructure

1:09:04and once you know once the hardware is hard enough to allow a lot of these things like like you know they didn't give

1:09:10us a home screen widgets on spring board because the home screens always showing.

1:09:14But when you pull in the Notification Center like now they can take intelligently refresh those only

1:09:19when you pull a notification center a lot of people never pulled a notification center so they never have to update

1:09:24them.

1:09:24Like there's all sorts of optimizations they can do all sorts of you know just restrictions

1:09:29and limits on where they're choosing to do these things and how to choose any of these things make them possible

1:09:34and make them come with low or no cost.

1:09:36Overall the experience part of Apple secrecy thing is that like it's obvious now in hindsight how they were laying the

1:09:42groundwork for all these things by laying the ground by law allowing technology to advance by the harbor getting better

1:09:47but also building all the A.B.I.

1:09:48That handsome so that they're able to deliver this

1:09:50and you could say oh this is the grand plan along three years ago we were complaining about this stuff.

1:09:55Savile couldn't say it was a secret they were doing this and we don't know whether that's the case or not but.

1:10:00It seems like from the outside that like their priorities haven't changed.

1:10:04Every time we've gotten a new feature it's been like now within the bounds of the priorities we set out for Iowa in

1:10:09terms of safety response and as we are now able to deliver this feature that you wanted a long time

1:10:14and it like gospel has changed direction.

1:10:16They've simply stuck to their priorities and waited not just waited for in terms of the hardware

1:10:21but also said if we're going to ever do this let's figure out the steps who have to take it over a series of I.O.'s

1:10:27releases they lay the groundwork slowly slowly and are now finding come out

1:10:31and I with it it seems like a whole bunch of those things came to a head of the same time.

1:10:35Like fire they had the infrastructure to do all of these things and they did all of them. It's been really impressive.

1:10:43So we should talk about this new language.

1:10:46John what do you think I feel I feel vindicated in some ways because if you think about like you know the company

1:10:56twenty ten thing in twenty ten came and went and nothing happened

1:11:00and had one was revisited was that twenty twenty ten twenty ten I want to revisit a writer I write written the engine

1:11:06only twenty three years only and twenty three two thousand one hundred twenty five as you say.

1:11:14Where's Jason when you know how many numbers are like anyway.

1:11:18Like right the whole the whole the whole debate you know among stuff on the outside of Apple about like why do you

1:11:28think they need a new language and runtime Why can't they just use objective seeing it and do it to enhance it and.

1:11:35M When I became out with was not a continued enhancement of Objective C.

1:11:39It was a new language unequivocally a new language. It all looks different. It's got a different name.

1:11:46You know the only thing they haven't changed the A.P.I. Seems to be under the covers the same A.B.I.

1:11:51but The way you use it is different because there are so many language features that essentially convert to a big whole

1:11:58mess of Objective C. Code. So they're sort of getting a new A.P.I.

1:12:02Without getting into IT guy which is very clever like they're not saying this language is so different We're going to

1:12:08need all new A.P.I. Is all new function names is all new arguments or whatever.

1:12:11Instead they said here's this compact way to say something that a value centrally is this big long block of not block

1:12:18but you know the big wad of Objective C. Code you don't have to write that big wad anymore.

1:12:22All that intent is expressed in this thing and it's not a new A.P.I.

1:12:26and That I think is very clever now I haven't had time to look at the language itself.

1:12:32It looks a lot like a language written by people who like C. and C. Plus plus an Objective C.

1:12:38I'm not necessarily one of those people but for people it should be familiar to them.

1:12:42I heard you say on Twitter that it looked a lot like go in his comparison was C.

1:12:47Sharp is to Java as SWIFT is to go and again not having looked at a very long that seems vaguely apt

1:12:56but the bottom line is they have a new language and they're committing to it going forward.

1:13:02It builds on everything they've done before building

1:13:04and all of the Emma builds on their own compiler infrastructure build on our ideas on our you know an arc on it like

1:13:10and you know it is that the compromise talk about Objective C. Without the C.

1:13:13Which was actually on a slide the actual phrases that object believe it I have I was trying to marry who originally

1:13:19came of that phrase on the Web It wasn't me it was

1:13:22but it was in the discussion like one of the just keep shaving the edges of Objective C.

1:13:25Like it's object you see

1:13:26but you don't need pointers like swift doesn't have the friggin stars like it's not you know you can mix it with

1:13:31Objective C.

1:13:31Code there are pointers behind the scene but you don't back or you can't dereference them start doing random crap

1:13:36and this is their compromise unsafe code mix with Safeco but the save code is so very clearly safe

1:13:42and it's super fast to get under the covers.

1:13:44It's compiling down to you know all of the M intermediary code which could optimize I mean you know it's the same.

1:13:51It's calling the same A.P.I. As some was asking when they get to the R.C.

1:13:55For a benchmark like look how much faster Swift is it R C four benchmark going to be I can see how could object.

1:14:00C B So slow undoing the R.C. For benchmark.

1:14:04What is it about swift that makes it faster I mean people who say OK fine so swift is justice fast good how can how can

1:14:09swift be faster I don't know the answer to that having just come out looking up

1:14:12but my guess is that swift lets you express what you want to do in a way that doesn't have all the baggage of C. In C.

1:14:20Plus plus and all those other languages because they have to be so cautious about well I could do this optimization

1:14:26but what if the thing that I call actually writes this memory address and that

1:14:29and swift can say I can tell you that's not going to happen because they have no way to get it that there's no way for

1:14:34them to be reference something goes over the section. Trust me it's going to believe this or that. We're back.

1:14:42Trust me it's going to be safe to do this optimization because the program has expressed his intent

1:14:47and we don't have to worry about all these cases

1:14:49and this easy process compiler that are unsafe that the compiler cannot make strong guarantees about you know it has to

1:14:56do the cautious thing and I don't know if that's why the R.C.

1:14:59For benchmark is faster but that is that that's what I was talking about.

1:15:03What can you do with a new language it's not just syntactic sugar it's because you can allow the pervert to express

1:15:08their intent without having all these details of the implementation of a merry unsafe language that the runtime in

1:15:14comparing says not to worry about. Yeah I think you're exactly right.

1:15:17The performance gains don't make a lot of sense otherwise but but it has to be about that about optimizations

1:15:22and you know and all the assumptions that the compiler can make

1:15:26and you know the often optimizing compiler so advanced these days

1:15:29and the more information you can give them about what they need to do what they don't need to do.

1:15:34The better opt in the code they can generate makes a huge difference I think there was a big presentation by someone in

1:15:39the O.M. Thing might interest latter somebody else that was going through like undefined behavior according to the C.

1:15:44Specifications he says because if you do X. or Y.

1:15:46Is undefined behavior and there are so many cases that it comes up and it ties the rating of the M.

1:15:51and The optimizer in the code generator it ties their hands it's like Boy we would love to does optimization

1:15:57but according to the speed C. Spec it's not safe for us to do it.

1:16:00And and so they may just be sitting there just waiting to unleash these optimizations

1:16:04and with swift they can define a language that is not impaired in that way that it doesn't have all these education say.

1:16:10Now finally we can pause after all that the nation it is safe to do this guaranteed to do it and figure out faster.

1:16:16Yet the other thing that was really impressive about SWIFT which comes back to what you were saying earlier about

1:16:20constant priorities is that the protections around doing something stupid a great example being over running away.

1:16:27So if you are a twenty items and you ask for item twenty five it's going to catch that

1:16:33and not let you do something either stupid or dangerous and it's it's going to probably fail dramatically

1:16:38but that's a much better approach than just letting you run amok in memory that really doesn't belong to you

1:16:44and that's just one example of many different protections they've made in order to prevent something like the Hartley

1:16:49book they didn't want to give up anything.

1:16:51So like compile time static analysis strong typing like you know so we can catch that you know if there was if there

1:16:57was an array out of bounds error they would catch that at compile time if they could you know if it wasn't a runtime

1:17:01value being put in there because they didn't give up any of the typing stuff like I saw this tweet did I don't read it

1:17:05myself as I was saying in the swift swift book that Apple put out on the bookstore

1:17:09and you can go get for free right now it was saying.

1:17:11Swift designed to be a language that you can use to write everything from operating systems up the applications like a

1:17:16single language that it's not like oh you just use this to make you fancy gooey apps when you write the O. S.

1:17:20You have to do it in C. It seems like Apple saying we can be swift from top to bottom.

1:17:25Everything we make all the software we make is apple from the operating system itself.

1:17:29All we have to all of our gooey applications in theory could be written in Swiss because that's how it's designed it's

1:17:33designed to be as efficient as the low level languages but even more pleasant to use than object was

1:17:39and that is an ambitious goal and I applaud them for it I'm not sure they would because I have read in them

1:17:43and not about the language

1:17:44but I mean what more can you ask the new language you know from top to bottom fully committed to it always it always

1:17:52seems like this is one of the reasons why I don't learn languages very often much to your chagrin.

1:17:57It always seems like a waste of.

1:18:00Of technology and resources and effort to have these languages that have you know great feature X. Y. and Z.

1:18:08and Then Oh but it doesn't run on Linux or you can't use it to build you eat

1:18:12or like there's all these like the limitations that like it's not really the fault of the language is more of a library

1:18:17issue usually or an implementation or V.M.

1:18:19Issue

1:18:20or something like you know it is it does seem like a waste to have you know to become an expert in language that you

1:18:26then can't use for X. Y. or Z.

1:18:29You know from my point of view of not wanting to learn languages very often

1:18:31but I think this is going to be looking at this.

1:18:34Obviously yes I'm going to learn this because I think I think every Objective C.

1:18:39Programmer of today should start learning what to soon as they can because it's absolutely you know it's not going to

1:18:44it's not like Objective C. Is going to be deprecated or start or go away in a year.

1:18:50You know look at look at how long Apple has supported the old C A P I's. All the core foundation stuff C.

1:18:56Plus plus a compilation of everything like that this is going to be here for a reason to be around for a while I mean

1:19:01but they map to each other that's the for you thing about it like over the shoulder thing where there's that you can

1:19:05look at the project to see header

1:19:06and we'll translate it mechanically to the swifter because like they didn't change the A.P.I.

1:19:11Underneath that is like you could write the equivalent object to speak of the object the sequel there would be unsafe

1:19:16because you could reference anything to crazy stuff.

1:19:18The SWIFT code is safe because what you write doesn't include in that stuff

1:19:21and that's that's fairly genius like saying that we're going to want to make.

1:19:25I mean in that respect it's like oh this is a low level language with a high level syntax in the other interesting

1:19:31thing to me was that as much as we all the Mon X. Code they spent enough time to make the X.

1:19:37Code tooling good just like you said when you look at documentation it will mechanically translate from Objective C.

1:19:44To Swift.

1:19:44Additionally they have what is a playground as I write which is basically like not quite a command line like

1:19:51interactive interpreter.

1:19:52It's better than that and it's gooey based and so they were showing demos of rewinding and playing animations.

1:20:00And doing things that I would love to be able to do.

1:20:03Yeah and that's just this is just Xcode swift tooling there's a bunch of other tooling I think most of which is N.D.

1:20:09Aid that's also extremely impressive and they didn't just throw this language out there

1:20:15and say hey you're probably going to need to learn this

1:20:16and you know we're not really going to help you just there's some documentation to figure it out.

1:20:21There's the i Book that John mentioned there's this playground thing within X.

1:20:24Code there's a whole bunch of documentation on their website I mean they're really they taking this seriously

1:20:31and the rumblings I've heard from from a few friends is that not everyone in Apple knew about this

1:20:38but those that did have been working on it for a long time and I think that's pretty apparent pretty quickly.

1:20:42Yeah

1:20:43and all the more impressive that was kept secret on those two absolutely I mean there are people from from what I've

1:20:47gathered there are people in Apple that had no freaking clue that this was about to happen to me is just mind boggling.

1:20:53Again that's the genius of the transparency they didn't need to know because it's not as if like what they saw them

1:20:59translate that header file it's like they could translate your Objective C.

1:21:03Course source to Swiss mechanically Perhaps if they wanted to. Probably not because you have the C.

1:21:08Part so they wouldn't be able to you know like I would like to do a lot of it so the rest of the organization doesn't

1:21:13need to know because under that like it's all binary compatible that's in the state of the union thing where someone

1:21:18just tweeted that you can stream the state of the Union without any kind of password so there must be public.

1:21:22They are they mentioned that they said it was going to be binary compound

1:21:28but not necessarily source compatible because what they're saying is like we don't know whether we even have the syntax

1:21:33of the thing they'll down even though we've been developing it for who knows how long internally they're reserving the

1:21:38right to change their mind about the syntax before the release of a video ices that are built on it during the period

1:21:44and of course they'll go on you know swift one point I was supposed to point to like the Dome of the object to see that

1:21:48expanded like crazy but Swift is designed.

1:21:50They're saying it was defined in terms of itself which any Perl six fans out there the five of you guys

1:21:55when you know Perl six is also defined in terms of itself.

1:22:00If you know the language spec was written you know the language itself is written in Perl six you don't have the

1:22:05mutable syntax of Perl six but that whole philosophy that swift serves and to be self posting

1:22:12and of these things that we think that are intrinsic to the language like a raisin collections

1:22:15or whatever are actually not

1:22:16but rather are like its library base their part libraries are built on it so it's it's it's a modern construct of how

1:22:22to build language don't just define a syntax and say this in the language forever more

1:22:26and they have different versions of the rather design a lot like L V M L O V M is a compiler system made as a series of

1:22:31libraries.

1:22:32Swift made by the same people the process is a language made as a series of libraries and the libraries will change

1:22:37and be added to over time and the core language itself is very very small and tight.

1:22:42Yeah this is also a very wise way to do it in that they didn't replace the frameworks they didn't you know they come in

1:22:48they couldn't do much work right and that's a thing only

1:22:50and that's why we were always kind of worried like well they sure do seem to be adding a lot of framework

1:22:55and this is going to be a big job to ever give us tonight to new language

1:22:59and instead design a language didn't need that conversion and that's like

1:23:02and that's going to help us too like it's not going to take very long for us to learn Swift because we'll learn the

1:23:07syntax in a weekend and you know we'll get the bits and pieces like the fringes over time

1:23:12but we already know the entire library that the libraries have not changed we know we know the entire We know all the

1:23:19frameworks already and that's a huge win.

1:23:21I mean they're still they're still there

1:23:22when they're not getting which is like using some of the guys from Swift may seem silly like it other words if these

1:23:29abs are designed in a world with Swift with a guide look the way they do.

1:23:33I mean even stuff like I don't know how they're going to end like Error parameters you know.

1:23:36Yeah they're promise of like I'm sure that there's massaging to be done there so they're not like it's the right

1:23:43compromise for them but it is still a compromise in that if you were designing new A.P.I.

1:23:47In a world where Swift was the beginning instead of the endpoint of language evolution your A.P.I.

1:23:52Would look different but that's just not an option for them

1:23:54and so this compromise like Arc kind of is is the right compromise for Apple this time.

1:24:00I'm I'm just I'm just happy the only thing I really saw the like is an ally convincing anybody of anything

1:24:06but like I mean I'm just happy that it happened because I thought it needed to happen.

1:24:10And and I'm excited that it did

1:24:13and assuming that this process has been going on for years that means I've been having conversations with people from

1:24:18Apple who knew that Swift was happening and now and could not tell me

1:24:24and who would talk about imagine what they must have been thinking some talk that I'm very well before you could do

1:24:29with a whole new language instead of just extending objectives the and they would.

1:24:33Yeah they do they do it and then they get some point they're going to start making A.P.I.

1:24:40That only work in Swift you know they like like the so many guys in previous transitions like going

1:24:46when going from carbon to cook Oh I'm sorry Exactly.

1:24:49Yeah walks right

1:24:51and yeah there are certain things that that really there's not going to certainly be there probably is not going to

1:24:56make if you're to see versions anymore and the amazing thing about these tools

1:25:00and the way they've built the thing is that you can opt in to use with it just like you can opt in her compilation

1:25:05which is purse or file

1:25:07and so you can have an app like you don't have like I don't have to convert my entire after swift to to use any of it.

1:25:13I can convert one file I can just start writing new modules and swift

1:25:17and eventually you know port the whole application slowly over time as I update things like there's so many.

1:25:23The way they're doing this is so immensely practical for the environment that we're actually in today

1:25:29and now think of hindsight.

1:25:30Remember how gross the block syntax looks and looked with a carrot and all that crazy stuff.

1:25:34I remember the Datsun tax it was like I don't know about the dot in the regular thing some people stuck with a square

1:25:38bag in hindsight you're like don't worry about the only block syntax guys

1:25:42and with little difficulty braces don't worry about the stupid dots and X.

1:25:46Guys and swift it'll all be dots like every If you look backwards. The Objective C.

1:25:50Answers and some of them are awkward and weird

1:25:52or whatever all of them are just like laying the groundwork to get swift up to speed

1:25:56and that's what makes you expect must of been a multi-year long process.

1:26:00You know it will get poetic if I think back to like this project starting two thousand and ten.

1:26:05That's actually based on some things we're hearing it sound that that might be around

1:26:08when it started certainly in the ballpark

1:26:12and you think about how in the hell in this kind of effort takes anyway you know you would have to have been at least

1:26:16you know I'm sure they didn't start this in twenty thirteen twenty twelve like probably you know probably ten eleven

1:26:23but you know this is this is I'm I'm so happy with how they're doing this it's just it's extremely pragmatic yet really

1:26:31exactly it really is

1:26:32and you know it's a way to to use their their strengths you know Apple Apple is really good at recognizing

1:26:40when they have something good and

1:26:42and being able to leverage your strengths in New in new creative ways like the death tools team especially is just so

1:26:48so good I mean you know what I'm what I'm the only thing on the set about here besides I have to learn something new

1:26:54which I guess is probably a good thing that you want to set about is I finally figured out block syntax why don't we

1:27:01stop having to go to our Evan blocks or act right.

1:27:04I finally don't have to go there like last month I finally got I can write block as method parameters I can run it.

1:27:10Variables like.

1:27:11I finally figured out blocks in fact reliably this month

1:27:15and now it's all I want don't feel bad Margo I know how to do profile formats.

1:27:20No nos of the five people out there to the prospects of understand that

1:27:25and that that information became useless as well.

1:27:26Yet so today your knowledge of blocks the syntax of blocks went out the window. Marco is wearing the A.T.P.

1:27:33Shirt

1:27:34and now all the code on the back is basically deprecated it oh yeah I was right then Swift now is that what's wrong

1:27:40with you

1:27:41but no it's been an extremely exciting day I can't wait to learn more about it because just like John was saying you

1:27:47know we've had no time today to look at this and so at a glance this all looks really compelling

1:27:53and I presume that as we look deeper and deeper it's going to look more and more compelling than ever now.

1:27:58But I'm so excited to see what.

1:28:00The next four days bring in see what what we're going to learn about all of this I mean I notice that in the sessions

1:28:07there's like a beginner level swift advance levels with their intermediary and advancing all this week

1:28:13and maybe that's under India and if so my bad.

1:28:15But suffice to say they're doing multi tier swift sessions on the span of a week so I don't know who they think is

1:28:21going to intermediate level in the span of like twenty four hours now but I think it's like if you've never seen.

1:28:26Like if you're a new developer period like me go through the basics whereas if you if you have experience with seven

1:28:31languages I think you could jump right into the advance with thing and then be like Oh I understand.

1:28:34Like right you know if you don't know what closures are them just showing you that in advance

1:28:39and I don't even know what it is you're talking about let alone how it behaves

1:28:42and you know what I mean like like that with a list of code and intent and double underscore weeks are strong

1:28:49and you know like what is the scope of the variable how they're retaining the swiftness like you don't need to worry

1:28:54about I mean I'm hoping you don't need to I mean look well because it does use the arc model underneath so like things

1:28:59like weak like weak references right for doing that

1:29:01and thing do you need to annotate that anymore as I'm getting out like

1:29:05or is it built into the language like that there again you know there are there are certain things like you know like

1:29:09you can't it within the arc model you can't prevent retain cycles in certain scenarios without having the kind of a

1:29:16weak reference

1:29:16and so like you know right what we've seen so far Swift is we've seen the curated good stuff that demos Well we haven't

1:29:24seen like the ugly stuff that like that they have to have yet you know and it might get less pretty

1:29:29but the fact is like I'm sure it'll be close

1:29:32and I didn't it'll be good to remove so much noise like even just with type inference are you talking about last year

1:29:38was like going to get a paper and been subjected to that kind of like that was the next thing on the list

1:29:42but it's like part of the big part of the big giant language that uncovered everything you say before

1:29:46and like getting rid of the types everywhere getting rid of obviously retain at least one away with ARC you know

1:29:52and I'm hoping like the silly annotations needed for the compile it if I want to do like you said if you know you

1:29:58probably need something to break so.

1:30:00Goals but I don't know what that's going to look like

1:30:02and it could be that they just have strong guarantees in the language

1:30:05and if you know it will allow you to create cycles of use the structures in this way

1:30:08and if you create them in this way you do create them there's no way to break them so just don't do that we don't know

1:30:13if I'm just going to look for different certain delegate math anyway.

1:30:17I'm sure they'll need it

1:30:17but you know just you know I learned today is that I feel like I learned today that Apple was not only floored

1:30:25but they are standing on the gas

1:30:27and so many things like there are a bunch of things I talked about with regard to layout so like if you're not doing on

1:30:34a way out which I'm not

1:30:35and I need to learn it if you're not doing all the way out you gotta get on that on that train because you're get left

1:30:40behind if you have you know if you're not using dot syntax you've got to get on a train or get left.

1:30:45I'm getting on a swift train like Margaret I have liked learns with

1:30:47and like we should talk about that section of STATE OF THE UNION which is apparently public about what what was it

1:30:53called size. What are they called. Oh no adaptive U.I. Is there either one of them or the like size modes or size.

1:31:00Yeah it's basically you know if they were like screaming with a megaphone.

1:31:06We are making a bigger I've already and also possibly thought by thought apps on that Deborah not sure yet.

1:31:12Yeah yeah yeah start using this stuff. I'm actually curious I don't even look at the A.P.I.

1:31:18That I hope you don't have to use storyboards to get a lot of that I don't think you do I think I just like you could

1:31:22do it all in code I go to the right part is the way to lay it out and it may be complicated

1:31:26but yeah like like we said on the previous show it could be that they just don't say anything about these things

1:31:30and just have a bunch of A.P.I.

1:31:31Is about making your appearance they totally do like just there was a long section of that thing about yeah

1:31:37and it was extremely awkward his they were dancing all around the fact that they are basically saying there we are

1:31:44bigger i Phones coming prepare yourself

1:31:47and even like even the side by side happenings which will require exactly the same thing

1:31:50and like their sizes were like so big it was like a contact for tickly compact horizontally.

1:31:56Yes like let's just forget about resolution like it's all I'll tell you.

1:32:00They're making a square i Phone there's a new like you can do square you know what I was the i Watch is a gigantic

1:32:04Square was like I mean this is this is another example of your android I think from the beginning I always had kind of

1:32:10like you I could be any size because our phones are you know we're not going to see your eye view I better adapt you

1:32:16have like a bag grid type of things where you put items in and constraints

1:32:19and Apple is just like the i Phone is here it's fixed this fixed exercises just deal with it right.

1:32:24And they worked over the series of releases to slowly creep up on this concept

1:32:28and what they've come up with kind of a weird mongrel of like Aphex layout half or a layout

1:32:33and people in the transition but during that whole period they had the right product for the right time

1:32:37and now is finally the right time for an Android was that from the beginning which is like what you're not going to

1:32:42with such a device and try to make the U.I. Looks good everywhere. Apple made a U.I.

1:32:45That looks good in all of its previous devices

1:32:48and now Apple is trying to show people how to continue to make us look good in any size device

1:32:54and not you know quote unquote any size

1:32:56and it's a difference in philosophy because you know Android apps trying to make a U.I.

1:33:01The scale to anything any size and shape is really hard and that's why a lot of Android U.I.

1:33:05Is where we're especially like the stressed out apps on the Android tablets

1:33:09and everything Apple never did that at every step of the way.

1:33:11Apple says we have a way of you know make awesome looking out in every possible size thing

1:33:15and that way keeps changing as the number of sizes change and this is the newest way

1:33:19and one of the most complicated way but still for most cable

1:33:22but I think this way is also probably like the end game of that of that path because like you know first it was in the

1:33:27Springs interesting a very very basic model of scalable windows and views and everything.

1:33:32Then you have all the layout which is much more advanced

1:33:35but the main limitation without a lead is like you know without being all crazy with that with dynamic checks

1:33:40and everything. You basically were applying the same constraints the same layout two of you.

1:33:45Regardless of what size it was

1:33:46and now you have more of a concept of like responsive web design which is like four for this size class you can use the

1:33:55set of constraints for this idea last are going to just come in this way

1:33:57or you need this entirely different set of sort of concerns like that's.

1:34:00That I think is like it's the end of that road and they can make it better

1:34:04but I think that's that's like the kind of system that that you pretty much need for the beginning because now all they

1:34:12have to do that size class right I mean is that it doesn't mean you're stupid until I come back or that even mean

1:34:17but that they use the same constant values for the you know the numbers are of the hole they are in to keep adding size

1:34:22classes

1:34:22and then it's like well now we have the top of the works on your wall five display with the new Apple wallpaper that

1:34:27you paint on twenty seventy five and that is a whole different class.

1:34:31So we should probably wrap but what do you think Marco. Thumbs up thumbs down.

1:34:36Are we are you excited are you happy are you disappointed what you think.

1:34:40I'm extremely happy and excited I am a little afraid of my workload.

1:34:46Yeah

1:34:47but you know most the most the things they've added like I was very go into this like you know what if I always add something

1:34:53ridiculous that I must have and I have to you know delay my app until eight ships

1:34:58and I don't you know assuming that you can get like the widgets types in the all the all the bed type stuff if you can

1:35:04get that conditionally compiled the way you'd be able to do with previous versions like if I can ship an app with the

1:35:10seven you know ship an app with the S.T.K.

1:35:13when It ships that I can have all these things

1:35:15but still be compatible with seven then that's fine I can still ship the Apple you know this summer somehow I don't

1:35:21have to wait until October

1:35:22or whenever I do have to do a lot more work to do now with with you know getting all the stuff.

1:35:28Supported by the time it ships

1:35:29but I'm I'm not like you know freaked out about having to get having to massively change my plans

1:35:37and the new things that they gave us are so good I mean it's the they gave us so much of what we both wanted

1:35:45and never thought we'd get that it's I'm just so excited to to get I mean

1:35:50and you know this week you know we're going to be here for the next four days and

1:35:54and learn about some of these things and sessions but we're not going to get a full appreciation for it until we go.

1:36:00Home and start actually using these things and and that's and that's going to happen over the span of months

1:36:04and years and and over months and years we're all going to appreciate the scale of what we got today.

1:36:11Right now it's still very new and it's still going to take a lot of thought

1:36:14and experience with it before we realize the you know the full effects are you going to do the size class stuff so

1:36:19you're ready for the bigger i Phone probably I will probably do that once I make an i Pad interface that'll be part of

1:36:27that work.

1:36:28I haven't done that yet I'm not going to launch as far as I know with an i Pad version so that'll probably come you

1:36:34know later fall or winter or whatever.

1:36:36Right so John how do you feel I'm kind of overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that they've put out there. I'm not sure.

1:36:42Like ostensibly all all that I care about in this in these announcements of the last ten stuff I'm thinking about my

1:36:47review and I still don't have that that oh S.

1:36:49Pin down

1:36:50and I saw in the news that I don't really know what to make of that people think oh this is going to be a big review

1:36:55but my initial impression is that it's not going to be that big is going to be small

1:36:58but I may be misled by the things that are always ten that are that are relevant to us ten that were their

1:37:04representative the other parts of the you know so I don't know yet but you're seventy it's interesting it's strange.

1:37:12The MAC was due her real refreshed I'm not sure if I like it or not yet I spent some time at that

1:37:18and see all the other stuff I mean I'm excited as a user about the Iowa State so I'm excited to use all the apps that

1:37:24people make on Iowa State.

1:37:25Yeah the take advantage of these features like really this is this is Iowa says time to time it's finally coming into

1:37:32its own and that's what I'm excited about from user perspective

1:37:34and of course the language stuff from an academic suspect of seems like just yeah I mean I will never ending it picking

1:37:41of swift self will begin once I went with him

1:37:44but the bottom line is like they did it they you know they've got a new language

1:37:48and it may not have been the way I wanted it or all the things that I wanted out of a new language

1:37:55but merely the acknowledgement that it's not object receiver ever dissed it just. Good yeah.

1:38:01Now like I said I'm just so pleased to see that Apple is really moving in they're moving quick in the end.

1:38:06Sitting here now I have no reason to doubt that any of this is going to work well.

1:38:09Ask me about this in you know three or four months when I was a comes out

1:38:12and all this i Cloud stuff actually happens and maybe nothing works

1:38:16and then I regret being excited about how how quick Apple's moving but sitting here now it's a really encouraging

1:38:22and I'm really excited to play with all of this stuff in it should it should be really awesome. We'll see what happens.

1:38:28Yeah I really can't wait this is there are clearly fire and also owners and you know

1:38:33and you know we didn't even mention the lack of hardware updates today because the simple fact is it just didn't matter.

1:38:39They give us so much in the software and tools and which is appropriate for a developer conference.

1:38:45They gave us so much there that you know we're we're content for a while I can learn swift on my old crappy monitor.

1:38:53I can I can maybe busy enough that I can temporarily forget for maybe the next couple of months I can forget that we

1:39:00don't have enough thermal screens yet and and thank goodness they didn't release a T.V.

1:39:05In a watch for us all to develop you know come on over and yet no new category

1:39:10but nobody here the thing is like the harbor announces as much as I love them are a distraction from everything else

1:39:16because for the rest of the week at the set at the conference it'll talk about the hardware like it's all about

1:39:21software this is a developer conference and we love it when there's hardware and it's exciting

1:39:24and you see in the last two but then they go away

1:39:26and for the rest of that we are not talking about I mean maybe it's like you know their retina screens that's a

1:39:31developer facing future

1:39:32but this so much developer facing stuff like this whole keynote was still the stuff that the rest of the week is going

1:39:38to be filled with. Yeah and it there so there was enough consumer stuff in there too that it wasn't like you know P.R.

1:39:46Disappointment for Apple today like they are on the I mean I'm sure some site analyst is saying that Apple's doing

1:39:52because they didn't release you know no unicorn whatever but

1:39:54but the fact is like I think most of the sensible places that are usually sensible at this thing.

1:40:00As Will will see the value here for everyone consumers and developers

1:40:03and this is just this is this is like this is just showing that Apple does have hustle is The Real Hustle they they do

1:40:09have massive engineering resources that that they're just you know they're not applying to things like Street View cars

1:40:16and everything else but

1:40:17but they are they are applying to different problems that that you know you know we didn't get transit directions

1:40:24and maps and everything

1:40:25and that stuff can come in time like you know it like I'm not trying to criticize Google for you know because Google

1:40:31has Google has engineering resources to spare and that shows with their weird side projects

1:40:36but their core stuff is still really good.

1:40:38This is showing that Apple can Apple cannot only still compete on Encore stuff just you know a different side of it not

1:40:45only can they still compete but they can to compete really well like really really competitively

1:40:50and the reason the bar in so many areas that that other that other companies and platforms aren't or lag behind in.

1:40:57And so Apple I think is fine.

1:41:00You know they're doing great

1:41:01and of a low I feel like it's like they were there was a law where we were making a lot of demand building talk about

1:41:07all the upstart changes like we are making a lot of demands and people want things and Apple isn't releasing it

1:41:13and it's almost like a whole bunch of stuff all came out of the open at once.

1:41:17Yeah we don't know how long any of those things were baking in there

1:41:19but the bottom line is like they open up indoors like fifty cake spilled out like they're all already now

1:41:25and you know you may from the outside to be like well they must of heard what we complain about since I was seven

1:41:31and then all the stuff so much of the stuff you know it must have taken more than a year like these they just all came

1:41:37due at the same time so I mean again we haven't gone to new category T.V.

1:41:41Forget about us stuff there's a lot this is a lot of like their cars they're sort of quiet period of just doing small

1:41:48incremental things that arguably ended with Iowa seven making the transition

1:41:50but like man a lot of stuff came out today a lot of big things that we wanted for a long time.

1:41:57Yeah it was really awesome and I'm so stoked. So that's the way.

1:42:01So thank you so much to Jason Snell and the people Macworld for letting us still in studio for a while.

1:42:07It's extremely kind of you so thank you.

1:42:09And we have some sponsors depending on the two or three sponsors this week Warby Parker iglu and Squarespace

1:42:17and we'll see you next week. Now to be in this it was accidental accidental death was accidental.

1:42:42Thank you for your time today. Whether he was right said that KING LIVE and a man we've got a lot to talk about.

1:43:22We will see you next week later or tomorrow and everybody you know whatever there's that too.