The Accidental Tech Podcast

72: Take Your Co-Host To Work Day

 

  It's all stalled by saying the show bodies back for how long. Probably not much longer. [TS]

  There's been a few poll requests from a couple different people who as usual I don't have their names in front of me [TS]

  because I'm a jerk but we can all laugh together when this goes down momentarily [TS]

  when we're laughing with you not at you and I think it's both but I don't want me laughing at your show [TS]

  but with you there's no known vulnerabilities left right. [TS]

  No no no [TS]

  but I'm sure that they never see reads our own boobs you know as our bugs know that we can count that as the pop [TS]

  culture reference the show if you'd like. [TS]

  Because I kind of pop culture kind of program or I'll put it in the show notes [TS]

  and then you know guys will know it means probably still won't follow up. [TS]

  Last week I think it was last week we talked about Google's material you will either demo to the Google I O. [TS]

  Keynote [TS]

  and I mention the one of the things they showed in the keynote that I thought was neat was that they want this U.I. [TS]

  To be the same on the web and on their phones and so they had a web version of it [TS]

  and this is a web site I don't even know if it's an official website but it's a Web site and you can go to it [TS]

  and view the web version of a lot of the controls that Google showed in their presentation did you guys check this site [TS]

  out preferably in Chrome I suppose you have an increment now but I have not looked previously. [TS]

  Now click around and see what you think I mean it looks like the stuff you saw up on the screen. [TS]

  Immediately on this there's another thing. [TS]

  Swanson Where's that biggest unloads he sent me this on Twitter [TS]

  and then I read tweeted a bunch other people responded [TS]

  and of course all the people who follow me true to form jumped on the fact that you can't click on the labels to [TS]

  activate the check boxes which is quite egregious [TS]

  but in the web world it could just be that didn't do the label you know for Eagles idea the checkbox thing [TS]

  or these could be entirely custom with girls I haven't even looked at the source to see if there's actually any. [TS]

  H.T.M.L. [TS]

  So anyway I don't blame those that most of what I'm looking at is does this you I feel you know for lack of a better [TS]

  word snappy and I think it does I think the animations are smooth here but if they take too long. [TS]

  Well yeah but that's not a performance issue that's like a decision that's kind of like you know and I was seven [TS]

  or I have the transition things turned out even though they were taken a shorter zooming effect. [TS]

  That's like they're deciding how long these things go it's not like they're taking too long because they're slow [TS]

  and remember Iowa seven point zero. Things did take too long. [TS]

  Seven point one they fix it they will they improved it they never you know been it said we made everything faster which [TS]

  they did by you know tweaking to values but you know Apple didn't really get as perfect either. [TS]

  On step one and there are still a few areas where there is like unnecessarily long animations and in the last ten [TS]

  and a nihilist. [TS]

  Well there's like and you know I get mentioned with turning off the reduced motion [TS]

  or whatever word doesn't reportedly does not change the duration at all [TS]

  but it feels faster because it's a crossfade instead of a zoom or whatever [TS]

  but other things you can do perception wise to handle that [TS]

  but this interest also shows off the big honkin like ripple effect things so you can tell where you clicked [TS]

  or the buttons having a ripple go across them. [TS]

  I'm still not a fan having quickly around in it but I am reasonably impressed with the performance. [TS]

  I wouldn't complain if I was cooking around on this like it doesn't look like a native control doesn't feel like an [TS]

  edit control but it doesn't feel slower clunkier So every This is all my complaints not technological ones [TS]

  but to design complaints which I think is a reasonable achievement like what they're looking for as this should be [TS]

  exactly the same on the web and native I haven't tried the native one but I can imagine it being any more [TS]

  or less responsive than this and so then you're just switch over to complaining about the actual design decisions [TS]

  but it looks to me like they've achieved reasonable parity of performance in the platforms you know I don't like if you [TS]

  look at the buttons [TS]

  and I'm looking at the raised button colored raised button where the kind of ripple effect is most obvious. [TS]

  As far as I can tell I don't like that it doesn't look like you're depressing the bottom like you're going to have a [TS]

  raised button it should it should get pressed when you tap it [TS]

  or click it right if anything because the shadow gets larger as you tap it so it looks like the button is being raised [TS]

  up off of the page for a moment. But the but it's not moving. [TS]

  So it just kind of looks spatially wrong you know the index thing is weird like if I understand what Casey saying about [TS]

  the depressed thing. But wouldn't that be like when that changed the Z. [TS]

  Value [TS]

  and then like momentarily it would be putting I don't I don't know I'm trying to figure out there forget metaphor Yeah [TS]

  it is this is what they've chosen to do it like you're not pressing the button down you're merely activating the button [TS]

  and so shimmer goes across the button [TS]

  but the button does not move because like this touch sensitive buttons you guys are trying to remember this started way [TS]

  back when on televisions my grandfather had one of these they had buttons on and did not move in and out [TS]

  when you press them they're like touch sensitive buttons of like a metal ring with a metal contact in the middle [TS]

  and you just touch them with your finger and it would activate to change the channel [TS]

  but it would they would not actually push down and these rules on the television and on the remote [TS]

  and it was amazing technology and whatever year was one nine hundred eighty six [TS]

  but that did not catch on for obvious reasons because people want buttons that press down like the home button on your [TS]

  i OS device. Yeah I think we're good and like this is the kind of thing it's hard to tell in a demo here. [TS]

  You know in this in this artificially created demo on a web page which is not the intended use of this man oh it's a [TS]

  way you can use these things but it's obviously this is made for touch devices first [TS]

  and you know this is the kind of thing where we're you know we're just not going to be able to really know how good it [TS]

  is because none of us use Android full time [TS]

  but we got a few people complaining about the way that we talked about Google last week [TS]

  and I you know I think it's worth pointing out and time telling ourselves as well. [TS]

  I thought the world of tech is really big and no individual person or even small groups like this. [TS]

  It's hard it's hard to get like good you know. Adequate coverage of everything in detail. [TS]

  We like to talk about things in great detail we're all extremely focused. Well for the most part. [TS]

  But we are three hundred at least. [TS]

  And so we we will go into depth on on crazy topics to Creese levels of detail [TS]

  and that has to necessarily be at the exclusion of others. [TS]

  You know like it's like like nobody can be an expert in all programming because programming is massive. [TS]

  Maybe in the seventy's you might have been able to become an expert in almost everything that was out there. [TS]

  Now that the industry is simply too large you can't be an expert in all programming because there's just there's more [TS]

  out there than you have time to even look at [TS]

  or learn you know you have to at some point you know reject certain things implicitly just because you're choosing to [TS]

  focus your attention on something in particular I don't think we should feel like we're barred from talking about [TS]

  things that we aren't experts in anything that sounded like we were doing that last week was our mistake. [TS]

  You know I don't I think I was I was doing a pretty reasonable job of disclaimers and being humble [TS]

  and giving the benefit of the doubt [TS]

  but that's been a very unpopular opinion of me recently apparently I don't I'm not doing well in almost everything I do. [TS]

  And and so I you know I don't know if it's my problem or everyone else's problem it's probably some of both honestly [TS]

  but we can't be expected to be experts on everything and we don't need to give everything equal time [TS]

  and I think that's very important for all of us. [TS]

  You know both us and the audience to understand and to be on the same page [TS]

  and to be in the same parking lot about we I mean there aren't we I mean look at me to drive into the parking garage [TS]

  level two and you know get one little ticket that you pay on the way out. [TS]

  You know I we need to have take your co-hosts to work today. [TS]

  How long you'll last how long until your co-host gets fired from the job he didn't even have [TS]

  and I think it's I think it's simpler than Marco [TS]

  and you are I think you're looking too deeply within yourself to figure this one out at the time it comes down to [TS]

  talking negatively about something that is clear that you don't know a lot about [TS]

  and that's the easy attack for people who are sort of on that team is that I don't like you saying bad things about the [TS]

  thing that I like and by the way you go also don't know as much as I do about the thing that I like. [TS]

  Therefore you're stupid for saying that you don't like the thing I'll take which may be true maybe if you knew better [TS]

  you would like it better. [TS]

  But just as easily it could be that you know enough about it you know that you don't like it [TS]

  and that's just an easy avenue of attack so when you dismiss Android or i call Android phones crappy [TS]

  or whatever if you're on the Android team [TS]

  and you care whether other people like Android which is some other thing in [TS]

  and of itself then you're going to say well if you just knew it better that's when I switch that [TS]

  and then on time way to say you guys know nothing about Android you should not talk about Android because if you you [TS]

  know you say bad things about it but it's clear that you guys don't even have Android phones. So stop talking about it. [TS]

  But that's not doesn't bother me because the people who are on teams like the partisans the people who care whether [TS]

  other people like Android stuff or or Apple stuff [TS]

  or anything like that does a million of those you're not going to change those people. [TS]

  What you would do want to be fair to the stuff like that and not because anyone's on any particular team [TS]

  but you don't want to misrepresent anything I think the criticism we got that I think was not fair [TS]

  but it was coming from a good place was that we didn't for instance mentioned that Android has more market share than [TS]

  Apple and we didn't mention it because we assume everybody already knows that not because we don't know it [TS]

  or not because we're trying to deny it [TS]

  but I can understand if you're coming out of not having that background sort of you know if if you don't share those [TS]

  assumptions with us then you could say they're misrepresenting Android making it seem like it is the inferior lower [TS]

  selling phone platform in reality. [TS]

  Which we never say I know you have about but it's like we all know what we know [TS]

  and a lot of our regulars know we know [TS]

  but if you're a new listener you may be thinking these guys are making it seem like Android is a loser when really [TS]

  and or it has the biggest market share I try not to get too bogged down in those things. [TS]

  Anyway most of most of orders Jamarcus like I just go into X.M.L. [TS]

  The point why do you think it's probably worth addressing because you know it's going to keep coming up here [TS]

  and there where you know somebody gets upset that we didn't cover X. Y. or Z. [TS]

  or That we didn't consider their team when discussing topic topic X. [TS]

  Because we covered somebody else's team and they perceive that as a slight to them and it's worth a disclaimer that [TS]

  when we talk about Android none of us use it [TS]

  but I don't think that removes our our ability to talk about it intelligently. [TS]

  I think if when we have to consider when we're talking about it intelligently [TS]

  but I think we usually have we shouldn't be afraid to talk about it [TS]

  or you know banned by our audience from talking about it as long as we keep that in mind as long as we keep in mind you [TS]

  none of us use it so we can't really say in great detail about these things but it is a major force in our market [TS]

  and it would be it would almost be stupid or negligent of us not to ever talk about it. [TS]

  The give me time to right click on that little demo page and I do not see an input H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Mint anywhere inside [TS]

  and a check box with all of the canvas styles were just fine like I was just wondering if they if they had tried to use [TS]

  the actual H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Elements [TS]

  and then enhance them maybe they have these I didn't spect element I don't know what was in the source code before the [TS]

  javascript got ahold of the DOM but [TS]

  when the job was done with it all left with the divs soup in some canvas elements [TS]

  and some inline style so that some crazy stuff. I like the slider I like the three D. [TS]

  when You grab the little what do you call that not another thing or handle. [TS]

  Whatever Tom Tom That's what I was looking for thank you. [TS]

  Anyway when you grab the thumb I think it's a little too much zoom I think it comes at you a little bit too much [TS]

  but I like the light coming at you it's getting bigger every came out through the shadow would increase go to the Z. [TS]

  Index thing at the bottom like shadows. [TS]

  Thing it shows distance you know the index so that the thumb is actually getting bigger. [TS]

  OK Well either way and I also like that it becomes colorless. [TS]

  At the left edge although I do think if you're going to do that game it should be more of a gradient as you come across [TS]

  the slider. [TS]

  But now they're doubly some good ideas here it it feels a little unnatural because it looks different than a lot of [TS]

  things I think mostly like this layout where you've got that page card thing that kind of goes over the head [TS]

  or that that feels weird and different and uncomfortable [TS]

  but I think just because it's different not because it's bad [TS]

  but it isn't a web page like imagine it on a phone imagine that you're using it on a phone [TS]

  and one app was a web app because the whole thing with Google's But their new O.-S. [TS]

  Is they're trying to you know the tabs are mixed in with apps in your task which are in everything in a way that [TS]

  supposed to blur the line between what is a mobile web site and what is an app [TS]

  and so you few are using a Google app that use this U.I. [TS]

  That happened to be a web app and using google that happened to be native they want them to look and feel the same [TS]

  and I mean if the whole rest of the O. S. [TS]

  Looks like this you'll get used to it [TS]

  and then if you happen to use a little mobile web app like this it won't be as shocking as it is for us to loads up you [TS]

  know on our Macs in a little demo thing inside a chrome and well [TS]

  or it'll be like an uncanny valley problem where it'll get you know it's like like one of those sites I mean obviously [TS]

  we're more advanced on this these days but when all the blog templates and everything started making when [TS]

  when the i Phone first and sort of making like mobile layouts that looked like an i Phone navigation controller [TS]

  and so they have like the other big gradient bar which of course he did really well. [TS]

  But they [TS]

  but they did not perform like it's considered like that they had to do the simulated jealous of scrolling way back [TS]

  when because they couldn't even do the real you know G.P.U. [TS]

  Killer it's growing but yeah even [TS]

  when he did like a navigation where you'd had an element I would try to do a slide it was all stuttering like that was [TS]

  not fooling anybody I would like to see actually in a blind test between you tell me is this a web page [TS]

  or is this a native app. I guess you'd say I was an example just like this like a control gallery. [TS]

  So someone makes a native app and on Google. [TS]

  Two operating system of these controls and so make the web equivalent and doesn't tell you which is which [TS]

  and you have to feel around with them [TS]

  and guess like two devices which one is the Web And what is that would be interesting. [TS]

  That's the true test I suppose that's the Pepsi challenge. A B. X. Testing. Let's take it serious. [TS]

  Anything else on this I share one else's opinion for the most part that it looks on first glance to have way too much [TS]

  animation. But again we'll have to see how that plays out. All right. [TS]

  Do we want to go through this bio medical follow up stuff. [TS]

  Yeah I think we should have been before Apple comes out with an i Watch and becomes less relevant [TS]

  but are you going to clear out the space of a document. Yeah exactly yeah. [TS]

  So this be at the back a while back [TS]

  when we were talking about wearables probably before they'll be releasing the first bit is from a biomedical engineer [TS]

  named bed grateful and the second bit is from a doctor. Name just one someone who you sacrifice yourself not it. [TS]

  He actually put in his email to try and pronounce that So is he just like taunting us [TS]

  and we did not live up to his challenge. [TS]

  His first name is the first name is P R I'm going to go with her [TS]

  and his last name as a capital over two dots on top of it and then it just goes on from there. [TS]

  I'm going to grin I think that sounds reasonable. That's accurate enough. It's probably not that far off. [TS]

  So the biomedical engineer is responding to our questions. [TS]

  Several shows ago about like what do you need to get vitals from people what kind of hardware do you need. [TS]

  And he says getting a good heart rate requires at least two sensor attachment to the body actually saw someone running [TS]

  with one of those he was one of those bands that goes around your chest. [TS]

  Yeah yeah like forgetting your heart rate I assume that's a summer thing right. [TS]

  Two centres Otherwise why would a rapper in your whole body. [TS]

  So having it having just the wrist thing might not be great for that [TS]

  and oxygen sashes saturation if it's feasible with current tech but like the other person has now not. [TS]

  Then to pronounce again as his main issue is what do you do with this information assuming you even can collect it [TS]

  and the doctor's opinion is that [TS]

  when dealing with any of this data you're faced with a couple problems one is that most people's vitals are stay within [TS]

  a reasonable range assuming they're healthy so it's not that interesting that if you were to charted are you going to [TS]

  see big fluctuations because if you do you should probably be in the hospital because it's not you know certain things [TS]

  like blood oxygenation should not be radically out of bounds he says that if your pulse action level blood pressure [TS]

  should only vary within a few percent of the boring graph so I assume you could zoom in on the axes [TS]

  and exaggerate the differences but he says when dealing with data points in my work context is everything. [TS]

  Is that pulse rate normal or not depends on the context [TS]

  and goes with fever blood pressure etc taken out of context there is nothing to analyze [TS]

  and the idea is that the most important thing the doctors do is get a context for the readings of the numbers in [TS]

  isolation without a trained doctor to look at them are meaningless certainly meaningless to like an untrained person [TS]

  just looking at these numbers and trying to know what his information is. [TS]

  So I mostly agree with all of this [TS]

  and a lot of people in the medical field are nervous about this stuff ever being used [TS]

  or anything remotely approaching medical purposes like I'm sure the things I've become of this glamorous like this is [TS]

  not for you to self diagnose this is not for there's not telling you when you're sick or healthy. [TS]

  This is NOT tell you whether you should or shouldn't go to the doctor or the hospital. [TS]

  Like I don't know for entertainment purposes only and I like that you know like that [TS]

  but is safe because it's you know steps [TS]

  and not even really steps just how many times it has a way gold in a step like manner [TS]

  and that's kind of like a game of fly [TS]

  but once you start getting to things start looking like things that you might measure in a hospital. [TS]

  I guess Apple [TS]

  or any other company that does stuff has to be careful in saying this information is not diagnosing you with anything [TS]

  it is not a doctor consult your doctor before blah blah blah blah blah. I think all that is true. [TS]

  I also think there is a reasonable. [TS]

  Entertainment only game a fight a version of this that could come into being in long term for people who do have [TS]

  chronic illnesses and stuff you would imagine like their we show this in the demos from the eighty's [TS]

  and ninety's I'm sure they're doing it today with a million devices that are people who e-mail us about [TS]

  but like if you have a chronic condition that requires monitoring having technology to have a device that does mine of [TS]

  misinformation are related to your actual doctor so that you can have sort of not twenty four seven care [TS]

  but like redundant monitoring by health professionals of your actual vitals. [TS]

  Because as part of some conditions you can imagine imagine if there was a way to constantly get your blood sugar level [TS]

  for people with diabetes without pricking your finger you just put on this wrist wrap [TS]

  and then like your doctor would automatically have like an entire medical staff somewhere [TS]

  but automatically have your blood sugar and could notify you [TS]

  when you're over doing enery minute to you know take your insulin shot before you go off to bed or whatever. [TS]

  That's like the future world technology there we show a firm of medicine [TS]

  and I suppose the silly entertainment stuff like that that is like a little miniature step along the way to that. [TS]

  But I way it was it was mostly a pessimistic view of the stuff that front from the medical professionals. [TS]

  They think it's not as useful as the fantasy scenarios make it out to be and I'm inclined to agree with them. [TS]

  Well maybe this would provide context to a doctor. [TS]

  I think you're right in that it could never be used for serious medicine. [TS]

  But you know maybe you could say maybe this app or healthcare [TS]

  or whatever could say well your heart rate generally falls between this and that. [TS]

  And right now it's at two beats per minute C. Might be dead you know. [TS]

  So maybe that maybe will provide that context [TS]

  or you wouldn't have otherwise had because you don't normally walk around with a monitor strapped to your body. [TS]

  Oh yeah this last that I want to get to in this. [TS]

  Anyone who has spent any time in the hospital recently [TS]

  or ever recognize that it like talking about the existing automated devices. [TS]

  Rolls for tracking vitals and how many of them have warnings or alarms that go off and how often those warnings [TS]

  or alarms mean anything on T.V. Shows there is something with a little buzzy beginning goes off. [TS]

  Doctors run around and it's something serious [TS]

  and dramatic music starts playing in actual hospitals the stupid buzzy warning things go off all the time [TS]

  and the staff there knows whether it's serious or not [TS]

  and there's tons of false positives in the thing that differentiates a false positive from time for doctors to run [TS]

  around with their heads. [TS]

  You know on fire is that trained medical professionals who know what can be disregarded and what can [TS]

  and what's an equipment to function and what's the sense of the just slipped off and what's a serious situation. [TS]

  You know and I guess that spent a lot of time a household [TS]

  but I spent enough time to know that big things going off in the beginning started freaking you out until you realize [TS]

  that they didn't go all the time and only some small percentage of the time. [TS]

  Does it mean anything and what it does mean something. [TS]

  Hopefully you know the doctors and nurses are on it but the rest of the time the doctors [TS]

  or nurses are resetting the thing turning the thing off recalibrating thing reattaching something [TS]

  and that is goes to show how much humans are a factor in this stuff [TS]

  and how little automated devices even hospital grade automated devices can do on their own. [TS]

  We are sponsored this week by returning friends iglu the Internet that you actually like. [TS]

  Now I know Casey you work in the world of internets frequently is that correct. [TS]

  Is there a market for somebody coming along to make an Internet that's good because you know it kind of implies that [TS]

  other Internets are terrible. [TS]

  Would you generally say that the case would you say there's a market for an i Pod a phone in an Internet communicator [TS]

  all in one. Well I mean a P.C. [TS]

  Guy that he has come in here and you know take the market they're going to walk in right naturally [TS]

  but if you are a glue you could just walk in and take the market turns out most Internet is terrible. [TS]

  An igloo is awesome and that's actually a really good business model. [TS]

  You know go to go find something terrible and they can also burden anyway. [TS]

  Lou has a super exciting release coming this summer called unicorn [TS]

  and we talked about this before a couple months ago or a month ago we told you about unicorn a little bit. [TS]

  So just to recap the unicorn has a ton of new features [TS]

  but the best integrated task management that will change how you stay on track with work iglu task can be assigned in [TS]

  different ways of hanging on the work you're doing. [TS]

  One of the coolest ways to use tasks is creating them directly on your content. Why do you need this. [TS]

  So for instance when requesting updates on a graphic [TS]

  or a text directly to me a text correction on a Word document you can create these tasks right on your content so you [TS]

  and your team stay up to date with what has to be done next. [TS]

  When you're viewing content even if it's a blog event [TS]

  or forum topic insider a look at it we can do all those cool things. These tasks are right there informing everyone. [TS]

  If all tasks have been completed or if it needs additional work you can assign these tasks to yourself [TS]

  or a team comment on the tasks and keep all of your changes in one place and [TS]

  when you're the one who has been assigned a task all your tasks show up in a unified dashboard within your glue with [TS]

  due date clearly marked making it super simple to manage your day to day work and clarify your priorities. [TS]

  Now I want to or a parking lot you can hear unicorn of day for all igloo customers coming this summer. [TS]

  So learn more at igloo Software dot com slash A.T.P. Once again it's a glue Software dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  Thank you very much Lou are sponsoring our show once again. [TS]

  Good people over there where there are very good people over there. [TS]

  Up there I guess I should say Oh yeah they're up in the great white north right. Indeed. [TS]

  Aperture and i Photo are dead and being replaced by cloud photos. [TS]

  Any thoughts on this from somebody who actually pays attention to photography which I am not that person. [TS]

  What do you guys use. Let's start with that. [TS]

  I used in the past i Photo occasionally [TS]

  but I felt like even from my photo collection pre children although it goes back to like two thousand and two [TS]

  or something like. It was really slow. Like really really slow. [TS]

  And so I tried to buy into using that as my photo management application [TS]

  and then it took me all of a couple weeks to revert back to using the file system that system is not going to scale. [TS]

  Once your child gets tired of using these views I thought oh an aperture [TS]

  and I think I had a demo of Lightroom installed for a while [TS]

  and I always had going back I thought of this by the fact that it's gotten worse and worse over the years [TS]

  and drives me insane for two reasons one. [TS]

  I invest a lot I have invested a lot of time in adding method is my photos in i Photo any I know aperture shares [TS]

  library and all that other good stuff but the features that I use most frequently either aren't in Aperture now [TS]

  or weren't in Aperture. [TS]

  Years ago when I continued on this path like face recognition came first I thought Oh is that even an aperture yet. [TS]

  I believe they brought over all that stuff [TS]

  and like like a point one update the photo books the slide shows all the silly consumer grade things they put in I [TS]

  photo we use them not frequently but every once in a while it's nice to have them there [TS]

  and again with that with the library sharing it's probably not that big of a deal basically we've just sunk so many [TS]

  hours and so much time and I've got all my photos are not a photo they're organized [TS]

  and they're they're rated mostly keyword did all sorts of other stuff and I just don't do any adjustments of them [TS]

  and I have no idea what I'm doing in aperture [TS]

  or Lightroom my photos aren't that good quality anyway because I don't really have a real camera. [TS]

  So yeah I have been i Photo for ever [TS]

  and that's where all the coaches are so I've actually used all of these things before [TS]

  and spend it like beyond just like using it for like a day or two. I started out with all i Photo. [TS]

  Then I tried aperture. I was all i Photo through my my first S.L.R. [TS]

  Phase for three or four years and I switched over to light room. I mean. [TS]

  Tablature first for about a year and a half [TS]

  or two years then Lightroom then back to aperture then back to light room [TS]

  and each one was like you know a six month interval there at the end. [TS]

  And now I've been a light room for a couple years [TS]

  and they've all driven me crazy in different ways none of them are great solutions [TS]

  and you know the situation is not great either. You know Guy was situation pre eight with the Photos app on i O. S. [TS]

  Being as kind as browser that could do very little on the camera. [TS]

  Being kind of half integrated into it and then the separate i Photo aperture. I don't know anybody used by for an i O. [TS]

  S. I tried it briefly and it was so so clunky and terrible to me that I I couldn't stand it but on the desktop. [TS]

  These programs have all had issues. They've all driven me nuts. [TS]

  I Photo was by far the least aggravating for the longest time in that if you want to do pretty passive management of [TS]

  your photos like you know what I don't I don't want to create albums and sets and tags [TS]

  and keywords I just want to import everything I'm able to browse quickly that's it. [TS]

  I know this is not maybe as common as as other people think I don't know. I've never use meditative features at all. [TS]

  I tag all the faces and i Photo when that came out and I never look at them again so that was a waste of time. [TS]

  I Photo has always been the simplest because it didn't require much organization and you could browse quickly [TS]

  and performance was critical. [TS]

  Aperture has always had the by far the worst performance of any of these things even like even on a macro even with an [TS]

  S.S.D. [TS]

  Average or performance is always been much lower for me then Lightroom or i Photo [TS]

  and even like in a fairly recent update like two years ago which for apertures recent because no one ever works on it. [TS]

  But in a fairly recent data aperture they even did the thing where you could merge the library where aperture [TS]

  and I sort of could share the same library which is an interesting move. Even that didn't make aperture fast. [TS]

  It Like It's always been very very slow just browsing through collection of stuff and it's also been very buggy [TS]

  and I tried a lot of different versions of aperture can ever knew it would come out all the after fans say oh they [TS]

  finally made it better. So I go back and try again and it was never really that much better. [TS]

  It's like desktop Linux everyone always says it's better now go try it again [TS]

  and it never really is like this not not meaningfully enough to people who don't use it every day to really see that of [TS]

  oh no this is still annoying the crap out of me and having these weird bugs and we have performance issues. [TS]

  Lightroom has by far the best performance and the best stability compared to other apps [TS]

  but Labor's interface is clunky [TS]

  and although honestly I found Abner's interface clunky as well even I thought it likely that while I was still trying [TS]

  it [TS]

  and I spoke about you occasionally it does seem like every release was worse than the last one they did something a bit [TS]

  like the thing they do to try to make it easier. [TS]

  Usually end up making it clear which you wouldn't expect but that's that's been the case [TS]

  and so I've tried all these apps. [TS]

  None of them are great [TS]

  and only the Apple apps have the integration with the i OS devices so if your if your I WAS device user [TS]

  and you want nice sync between all these things only aperture and i Photo have that [TS]

  and Lightroom has they were recent to their own same platform for Adobe's had a weird history with us first a launch [TS]

  Adobe rebel about two years ago I think [TS]

  and it was a good idea in fact a lot of a lot of the stuff that that the new photos cloud thing is doing. [TS]

  Revel did it two years ago [TS]

  but it was a weird it was a weird combo with weird limitations that was never very well marketed it was very clear that [TS]

  it was not a top priority for Adobe. So then Lightroom cloud was. [TS]

  Or the current wiring public or mobile whatever their labor release to sink a product like two months ago [TS]

  or something like that [TS]

  and you could you had to manually drag over things that were saying it would not sink your whole library it wouldn't [TS]

  even let you sink a smart album so you couldn't do a trick we say I will just sink everything for the last six years [TS]

  you know couldn't even do that you have to mentally select what got sent which kind of ruins the way I want to use it [TS]

  and what I want is what Apple is giving us now. [TS]

  I am sad that aperture is going away in the sense that there's going to be less competition for Lightroom [TS]

  but there wasn't that much to begin with because aperture was so badly maintained by Apple it hardly ever got new [TS]

  releases. It rarely got new features. [TS]

  Didn't I know this is probably some people consider this minor [TS]

  but does it even have lens profiles for cameras like remember that a couple years ago [TS]

  and it's such an incredibly good feature because you don't realize how distorted your camera is until you click on the [TS]

  checkbox that applies the lens for if I who like oh I people say No didn't get it. [TS]

  Lens profiles give kind of a shame that like now that aperture define the category with an avatar essentially [TS]

  popularized a category of application that previously was only used by professional photographers it sort of prosumer [TS]

  because Is that like when we were talking about aperture and Twitter and everything [TS]

  and everyone was traveling in with the names of applications I never heard of. [TS]

  Probably because they're used by pro for TOG reverse and aperture was like prosumer. [TS]

  Oh here's an application like the one the president was probably nicer because it's made by Apple [TS]

  and doesn't have any weird you know it's not made by some weird company that sells a small number of companies that [TS]

  will it's going to be friendly it's going to be prosumer but it fulfills the same role [TS]

  and then Lightroom said that's a great no apple but here is how you actually do it up and make it so right [TS]

  and an aperture was just relentless in its updates and like new cameras we come out with crazy new raw formats. [TS]

  I mean yeah yeah obviously like new cameras that would come out creating new raw formats [TS]

  and Lightroom would be aperture to support it all. [TS]

  Every single one and often by like weeks or months it was often a pretty big pretty big difference. [TS]

  And and just you know that the processing engine like I always liked and I was torn. [TS]

  One of the reasons I can switch back and forth. I always liked the results I got from aperture editing and aperture. [TS]

  I added some of my favorite pictures in it but light room and editing controls are better. [TS]

  I was really very very impressed with the output of aperture [TS]

  but I hated every part of getting their work of light room. [TS]

  It's now like the tools are much more advanced [TS]

  and they've slowly like made it a little bit more artsy rather than like you know analytical and everything [TS]

  and so that they're improving on that front [TS]

  but the biggest problem with these apps that's always been the case with Aperture and Lightroom [TS]

  and I know there's other apps out there like my wife uses bridge in fact Casey for the same reason for she she likes [TS]

  the file system approach we have a kid we have many pictures of the kid and she's in the file system John [TS]

  but because Bridge is a come to photoshop and it's basically light rooms editing controls [TS]

  or rather light rooms really bridges and drills [TS]

  but regardless it's light rooms editing controls all the same tools even the same name just with a different skin in a [TS]

  way that operator up in the file system so it's more of like a fancy image browser that just browse your folders on [TS]

  your desk but can do these operations to them anyway. [TS]

  The problem with these apps is that you have like the professional workflow stuff like if you're doing shoots for [TS]

  clients these are not your personal photos you don't want to keep one giant library of every photo you've ever shot for [TS]

  a client. [TS]

  Merge them with the photos of your dog that's you know that doesn't really make sense doesn't it work differently scale [TS]

  and so Photoshop and I mean Lightroom [TS]

  and aperture were both built to address this market of professionals who do shoot with these big you know these [TS]

  collections these big sets you have to bring into your library and manage [TS]

  and I mean a major story can different create. You way isn't everything that's what they're for. [TS]

  There's also this entire community of people like us people who might buy an S.L.R. [TS]

  or A fancy camera and want to really advance editing controls for making our photos look good after we take them [TS]

  or you know fancy raw controls or you know things like that [TS]

  or are handling rather And you know a lot of editing controls. [TS]

  There's people like us who want that power the power of those editing tools who don't need [TS]

  or necessarily even want that crazy Frova toggle for workflow and storage [TS]

  and collection management that these apps bring and kind of force you to use. [TS]

  I've photo actually has a very it has always had a very small amount of raw options in the way it used to work [TS]

  and please check correct me if I'm wrong with a new version [TS]

  but the way it used to work the first editor off OTOH you would actually have lost us raw controls there [TS]

  and you could make great judgment that it wouldn't really indicate that it had a little raw badge in the corner [TS]

  but you were doing it like it wasn't like importing Japan operating on that you were actually working on the raw first. [TS]

  But as soon as you exited that first edit it would it would write the changes it would bake them into into the J.P.G. [TS]

  Preview and you'd never have a lot of editing on a file after that unless you totally reverted back to original [TS]

  and reprocessed it and so i Photo had these like half assed RAW editing controls. [TS]

  It looks it looks through almost all of almost all the hints without almost all in for you [TS]

  and if you look at the articles that reported on the apertures being discontinued they all came with this additional [TS]

  screen shot of the Photos app that we haven't seen before that wasn't in the queue No the show's controls [TS]

  and things that weren't in the keynote and it looks a lot like aperture and Lightroom. [TS]

  It looks like it has a ton of editing controls in the right hand column really advanced beyond what you normally get in [TS]

  I photo and looks like the same kind of stuff you get an aperture [TS]

  and Lightroom it sure looks like what they've really done here is. [TS]

  Now we will have the simplified management of my photo and all the convenience of the files being sent [TS]

  and being part of our official photo library on our Macs and i Phones and i Pads [TS]

  and it looks like they've finally given they've finally given i Photo or the new photos after other [TS]

  but they finally brought those prolife editing tools into the consumer level photo management app which is something [TS]

  we've never had before you know as in i Photo used to have kind of half assed version [TS]

  but it sure looks like they're giving us exactly what people like us want this is not would prefer talk refers really [TS]

  need but it certainly is what people like me [TS]

  and you guys need you know where it's still a consumer app it's going to have simple management I'm sure probably very [TS]

  similar guy was photos but it has all these events controls and that to me. I'm very excited about this. [TS]

  I don't think I'm going to stop using Lightroom but I might like it. [TS]

  It looks like it's good enough that I that it might be it might be good enough for me drop Leitrim entirely of their [TS]

  editing and trolls the big thing they were sharing in the keynote was you know not just prosumer [TS]

  but going down to consumer level when consumers are faced with the actual controls available in Aperture labour [TS]

  and they have no idea what to do. I don't know what to do. [TS]

  Like it's just too complicated there's too much involved you're never going to get anything right. [TS]

  So that's why I thought it has a big red button called enhance that tries to do something reasonable [TS]

  and that's got a few tweaks for you know a few other minor controls the photo that was trying to make a father it's [TS]

  like we're going to sort of kind of expose all the crazy controls you see [TS]

  but we're also going to give you a big friendly slide [TS]

  or a slider that says please make picture better now into along some axes [TS]

  and that slider want to just anyone thing that's liable to seventeen factors and not even in a constant ratio. [TS]

  Just trying to do like a smart adjustment. Because they know that most people don't know enough to correctly. [TS]

  Just a little slighted did everything right so they want to [TS]

  and they know this is a big red enhanced button is also the other end of the spectrum. [TS]

  It's not good enough they want to give you some with all these pictures a little bit to do. [TS]

  This picture was a little bit underexposed like if you can get a few basic concepts [TS]

  and then grab ahold of one of those sliders. [TS]

  They will do sophisticated stuff behind the cover that involves adjusting a hundred flyers to try to get you something [TS]

  nice and this is moving farther and farther away from professionals and towards the realm of consumers. [TS]

  But trying to make it useful you know like if we give a speech to a pro they can make it look better than you ever will. [TS]

  But how close can we get you without teaching you really anything but some basic concepts about photography. [TS]

  And did you see the larger screen shot this on put in the chat room. Yeah yeah confirms I think pretty much everything. [TS]

  Yeah it does actually. [TS]

  It's hard to see in this picture but actually almost looks kind of light roomy in terms of like the U.I. [TS]

  You know I like less like aperture with a strange Squinty pro interface and all that stuff. [TS]

  But it so I made I made a list of pros [TS]

  and cons for the Photos app that's going to be replacing this from my perspective because despite all the editing stuff [TS]

  you just talked about I think most people don't edit their photos [TS]

  and most people I mean at the big red enhanced button I bet most people don't even crop their photos. [TS]

  I think they just collect them and then we want to have some way to go through them. [TS]

  So organization is the more important thing but so from my perspective what I do with things [TS]

  and i Photo is the reason I had all this meditative is for organizational purposes so that I can do things like as I [TS]

  have so many damn pictures so I can do things like three plus stars featuring my daughter from Long Island in two [TS]

  thousand and ten [TS]

  and that will give me like seven photos if I wanted to make a calendar page for printing out a family calendar a few [TS]

  pictures of my daughter from on the beach in that time and how do I get to do that out of my thousands and thousands [TS]

  and thousands of photos because I rate every single one of them because I keyword them because I make sure the face [TS]

  recognition works so that I can do smart searches and smart albums that very quickly give me the seven [TS]

  or eight good pictures out of the hundreds or thousands that I took [TS]

  and I would say that that puts you in a severe minority I mean I I would bet you're totally right. [TS]

  Most people don't even edit their photos don't even crop them but I would. [TS]

  Also that almost you know comparably nobody actually edits a meditator right well that I'm not saying that that's the [TS]

  right solution I'm saying that's what I've done but I get what I think actually before I get a member of the cons [TS]

  and I think the correct solution for the Photos app is dump all the photos into one big thing [TS]

  and give people like me the ability to like not the I was a you can use Facebook's like [TS]

  but I think that's something people do. People take a bunch of photos. People can go. [TS]

  This may be all the thought of the someone takes the purser took the pictures go through them at least once like they [TS]

  want to look at the pictures they took [TS]

  and I'm not even sure that's a safe assumption because I think that they take the photos they go through the month is [TS]

  all that's a good one and if they had a little button that would you know dude like or star or whatever. [TS]

  Then at the end of their vacation one percent of their photos or two percent [TS]

  or depending how how kind they are to themselves have little stars in them and then in the future [TS]

  when they want to show me all the good pictures [TS]

  and a vacation that I want to go through thousand pictures to show me the ones that I said were good that kind of [TS]

  binary good bad type thing where you don't say bad to just say Good maybe the bad option to I guess put in the trash [TS]

  or whatever is their parking lot. [TS]

  Well no [TS]

  but the thing is so let me use myself as a quote unquote normal in so far as I take pictures only with my i Phone We [TS]

  have no point and shoot other than that we have no S.L.R. [TS]

  I know that all probably change when sprouts here but nevertheless as it is today we only have our i Phones [TS]

  and what inevitably happens is I'll take a picture because the occasion strikes my fancy [TS]

  and I think that I might want to capture that moment and it goes into my photos. [TS]

  Dream role thing whatever on the phone [TS]

  and then every couple of months I remember that I should probably take this off my phone I hook up Image Capture I hook [TS]

  it up to the macron image capture dump everything into one folder and never look at it again. [TS]

  And these programs that are going to stream Lee important to me yet I never ever look at them [TS]

  but no one wants to see pictures of you and your wife. [TS]

  People are going to want to see pictures of your child and that you're going to be faced with the problem. [TS]

  Send me three good pictures. [TS]

  Or you're going to be making cute little kid things like I mention the calendars or little books [TS]

  or some like you know Baby's First Year type things like stuff like that comes up [TS]

  and you want to distribute them so you will be faced with some kind of sorting problem because you have way more [TS]

  pictures then you have of yourself in your way because you'll take a million pictures your kid [TS]

  and the people who want them. But people don't want to million they just want that one or two good ones right. [TS]

  So you will be faced with that task eventually of of having vastly increased volume [TS]

  but also having the task before you to come up with two or three good ones and you going to want to visit [TS]

  and I want to show you kid being the cutest possible and I understand that [TS]

  but I think if it's again sitting here now very ignorant because I don't know what it's like to be a parent yet I think [TS]

  I would just think to myself when did sprout have or whatever we're going to name him or her. [TS]

  When did sprout look cute. When do I remember taking a good picture. [TS]

  What day was that he building his memories going to work after the child gets here so honestly I think that's what most [TS]

  people do I think most people they did they just browse on a timeline that's that's all I do. [TS]

  Yeah the time the family gets big I mean like I said I don't I'm not saying people need to be reading each individual [TS]

  on a cropping and I'm saying even like when people put stuff on Facebook people like other people's photos on Facebook. [TS]

  People say yes that is a good picture No that is not a go [TS]

  but just a binary that little binary thing because every picture on Facebook gets one or two likes. [TS]

  But individual people don't like every single photo they see. [TS]

  So too with their own pictures if you look at them at all ever is not too much to ask oh oh that's a cute one. [TS]

  And just a quick little thing like people fave tweets [TS]

  or growl at the same thing you know to people who read all the tourist we know [TS]

  but sometimes they see one of my favorite I think that is the appropriate level of granularity for sorting [TS]

  but then I'm with you in the funny thing is I actually believe in having the meditator which is what I did in that two [TS]

  months that I spent or whatever was with I with i Phone and i tried to create [TS]

  and generate all that meditating so I could do exactly what you're describing in the. [TS]

  Thought of being able to say Oh the picture of Erin that I liked when we were at some friend's wedding [TS]

  and getting there instantly. That sounds extremely appealing to me it really does. [TS]

  But all of the work I would have to go through to get to that point I have no interest in what so well that I mean face [TS]

  to action as an example I was using keyword in the very basis action is assumed to keyword each of the people [TS]

  but if you have a seduction the computer can do that part for you you don't have to find keywords things is having [TS]

  Aaron in them to face that action will narrow that down for you it's not going to be a hundred percent effective [TS]

  but look at all the work it's you don't have to categorize pictures of having iron in them or not. [TS]

  The program did it for you. [TS]

  Program probably got to the point where it can favor things for you in terms of framing and composition [TS]

  and whether it's in focus or not. You know that that's that's where they're trying to get there. [TS]

  Well what Apple is trying to do is make it so that normal people can have the photo experience that I have through [TS]

  diligent work that I put into my photo Larry I don't think that's it I think they're I think they're trying to adapt [TS]

  from a world of people hoping to use it like you and usually not and failing. [TS]

  They're trying to adapt from that world to the way people actually use their photo libraries today I know [TS]

  but they want them to have the they wanted to have the advantages that I have without the work. [TS]

  That's what I'm getting at. [TS]

  Same thing same thing with the editing they want them to be able to edit photos kind of sort of like a pro without [TS]

  knowing anything the pros know they want them to be able to find their photos quickly the ones they like without having [TS]

  to put any work into organizing them and saying which ones are good and putting them into the albums [TS]

  and doing all the stuff that's that's about all there things are toys they want you to have powerful features without [TS]

  putting in a lot of work. [TS]

  All right so what do you pros and cons for this from my perspective I was is an eye for a user. [TS]

  So we already touch a lot of these pros [TS]

  but just to go on Lester so full cloud backup of everything assuming you pay enough money that's the point. [TS]

  We talked about this forever [TS]

  but they seem to be saying is all your photos will be everywhere will take care of the all the in the cloud they'll be [TS]

  full resolution Assuming you pass enough money. [TS]

  But I mean find whatever like if they come through on that [TS]

  and the pricing is not outside my price range I would call that a pro because right now I have to roll my own solution [TS]

  for that whereas in the system I would need to know one device has to hold all your photos so if my mac isn't big [TS]

  enough to hold my photo library if my phone isn't picking up the home I felt a lot better to me it doesn't matter. [TS]

  They don't all need to be in any one device. They're all in the cloud. [TS]

  Some subset of on them is on your devices you don't worry about it [TS]

  but all photos are browser ball are available to you on all devices just because all your pictures can fit on your [TS]

  phone if you scroll back to you know ninety ninety six you should still be able to browse through there even though [TS]

  those aren't you know so the name of the taken care of like what's on the device what's not like that's that's the [TS]

  whole promise of the system getting us out of individual applications of like that presumably at it show up everywhere [TS]

  and so if you crop a photo on your phone if you crapped on your mac if you crop it on your i Pad wherever you do that [TS]

  work to it that it will show up everywhere you know I cropped it on my phone [TS]

  but the version on my for library isn't cropped or the one in photo stream is crop of the one of my library [TS]

  and I go also these all these were things like that presumably would show up everywhere. [TS]

  And also presumably organizational changes that show but if they have a concept of an album [TS]

  and if you happen to make an album I would hope that that album shows up everywhere that your pictures are so if you [TS]

  make the album on your mac the album and show up on your phone if you make the album in your phone just [TS]

  when your i Pad You know that's that's the dream of this arrangement of being divorced from a program that lives in one [TS]

  place that has a library that's in a folder or in some big you know bundle thing or whatever. [TS]

  Now on the console I had the one I mean I think of it how do I make a backup of this how do I make a local backup [TS]

  because of all my photos are on my mac [TS]

  and all my photos are on my i Pod know my photos are on on my you know i Pad What if I want to have a hard drive in my [TS]

  house or even just do a like my own online backup to back later whatever. [TS]

  How do I do that how do I make a backup of this or am I out of the picture on that now [TS]

  and I'm sorry you're not allowed to have a backup. And that leads into the second con which is what's my recourse. [TS]

  Pictures disappear so I buy into the system. Upload all my stuff all my pictures are in the cloud. [TS]

  Some subset of them is all my devices and I try to go back to some pictures from you know two thousand [TS]

  and four that I know you know we took a beach vacation and I can't find them or they're there [TS]

  and they're all blank white they're all scrambled over what is my recourse. [TS]

  I don't have a local backup remember and now they're all screwed up or were they all spun duplicate [TS]

  and have three of every picture I have to go through manually delete them. [TS]

  What is my Reset How do I start over if I don't have a local backup. [TS]

  This is like reliability basically saying do I trust Apple to be the cloud storage for all my photos [TS]

  and I clearly I don't. How severely will the organizational tools that I happen to use be curtailed. [TS]

  I presume they will curtail organizational tools because you know like I said most people don't use have any tools why [TS]

  would they include them in the Photos app ratings keywords albums faces events like all these things all these concepts [TS]

  of the DIS and I thought Oh I imagine almost all of them would be gone in photos and that's fine for most people [TS]

  but it's not good for me because I put a lot of time and effort into those and what happens that data [TS]

  when you know how well I import my existing our photo library into the system will there be a way for me to do that. [TS]

  Even just saying stuff like crops like I spent a lot of cropping pictures that I like like that's not a big complicated [TS]

  at it is that something to lose all my crops are going to be gone. [TS]

  Will there be a migration path from my photo into this thing that maintained as much as mine that it is possible [TS]

  or will it just be like nope sorry Will didn't read your original Jay pays off disk again and upload them [TS]

  and you have to do them and everything. [TS]

  So in these pros and cons I'm kind of excited about the pros [TS]

  but if some of these cons can't be addressed I don't know what I'm going to do because I I mean particularly about the [TS]

  backup thing I want to have an out if this thing gets flaky or screws up my pictures in some way. [TS]

  I need to have a local backup [TS]

  and if I can't figure out how to do that I'm just going to have to like I don't know keep using I thought until it [TS]

  doesn't run anymore. Try to maintain two copies of everything one of my phone. [TS]

  Our library when this cloud thing and I am I'm very nervous about this. [TS]

  Well why can't you just do image capture like I do and put that somewhere that gets backed up everywhere. [TS]

  But then they wouldn't be in the cloud thing like how if I want to buy into this this photo's thing like I like the [TS]

  idea of having access to my one photo library everywhere without having to have like literally five hundred gigabytes [TS]

  of photos attached to every Macin my house and on [TS]

  and you know I can't fit it on any of my US devices like I want to see my photos from everywhere I want to have one big [TS]

  shared library that everyone can see or at least the same Apple I.D. [TS]

  and Every system can see this getting the family sharing thing that drives you nuts but we're not. [TS]

  I'm with you I'm saying maybe even just leave the pictures on your i Phone if you will [TS]

  or the I don't know I don't know what you would do with an S.L.R. [TS]

  but In addition to whatever the normal procedure is for the new way to handle photos also take all the pictures dump [TS]

  them on your sin ology for example in some drive somewhere that you're also backing up off site that doesn't. [TS]

  I presume when I bring the photos in I do mess with them a little but at the very least I crop them [TS]

  and find the ones that are good [TS]

  and that work is not preserved by having a backup of the full picture is whereas now what I'm backing up is essentially [TS]

  my i Phone or a library which has all the original J. [TS]

  Pegs Yes that also has all the associated meditator with all this stuff. [TS]

  So if my house burns down and I restore from a backup [TS]

  when I get back it's not just my original photos I get back on my crops run them all and meditative [TS]

  and whatever meditative there is to preserve I get back whereas if I'm just back at the individual files [TS]

  but then you know investing my time in continuing my meditative regime to as much as I'm allowed to at the very least [TS]

  it's simple things like albums and if not ratings and some kind of you know star type system. [TS]

  I'm not backing that up anywhere that goes away [TS]

  and it's not like I think my house is going to think is going to go away because the early versions of this are going [TS]

  to be buggy and it's going to screw up in some way and I'm going to want to reset or I want to restore from that. [TS]

  Whatever And I'm not going to be able to. [TS]

  Well I think this is really though a very uncommon case I mean first of all I think it's going to work like almost all [TS]

  these other you know i Cloud type services and for Android Bramber their thing is for Amazon for their new thing. [TS]

  Most people are not going to have their own back. [TS]

  Most people are going to be totally at the whims of the system and it'll work fine for most of them. [TS]

  I really think that it's just not going to be an issue for most people. [TS]

  I think these are my pros and cons [TS]

  but like even for things like contacts contacts that the entirety of people's contact is probably the size of one photo [TS]

  from one photo from an S.L.R. [TS]

  and Yet people have trouble with contacts duplicate contacts contacts being lost [TS]

  and it's the one caught up in another place. [TS]

  If Apple can get that right with such an incredibly low data volume that continues to be as I think it is from dealing [TS]

  with my relatives at least managing contacts continues to be a problem keeping them [TS]

  and think even if you're one hundred percent on the Apple system keeping them in sync making sure all your editor [TS]

  available in all places contacts are less precious than photos. [TS]

  And I'm not sure Apple has proven that it's up to the task to even doing forget about metadata free [TS]

  or anything else just the concept of I've taken a photo exists or doesn't exist and it is accessible everywhere. [TS]

  Simply that it may be below the bar of things that Apple is able to pull off [TS]

  or as thus far proven that it's able to pull off because I can't think of a single system that involves data goes in [TS]

  one place it is available everywhere that works flawlessly and has a reasonable debugging recourse in apples [TS]

  and Vironment whether it's photos of Instagram messages last time which is just simple text. My confidence is low. [TS]

  Yeah I think that's that's fair I think what's going to happen is it'll work great for most people [TS]

  and by the way I think most people once the photos thing is clouded. I guess that's wow. Yes sorry. Most people might. [TS]

  Blues most of the need for their own backups do you figure like what most people do with their computers is pretty [TS]

  basic by by geek standards it's the Internet stuff which is kind of always inherently backed up because you know log [TS]

  into stuff and then you know photos maybe some documents here and there. [TS]

  Well documents are now being moved i Cloud in a lot of cases or at least people are using Dropbox [TS]

  or things like drop box with the new Cloud i Cloud Drive thing even more people be using something like that. [TS]

  So that's kind of all covered. [TS]

  Especially if if i Cloud Drive becomes like the default place to save files by the system which almost certainly would [TS]

  be. [TS]

  That's backed up you have all the contact calendar [TS]

  and all that data back to you have everything on your phone you know your your music collection your media collection [TS]

  that's all backed up their i Tunes Match if you have that if you want to write tunes it's backed up anyway [TS]

  and then you know now we're going to have all your photos that of I think this is this is going to really remove the [TS]

  need for a lot of people to have backups [TS]

  and furthermore for for people who don't have backups of his Unfortunately most people having their photos be one of [TS]

  the things that is always inherently backed up [TS]

  when they do have catastrophic data lost it will be much less of an issue. [TS]

  It'll be much less devastating because they will have all their photos again that [TS]

  and that's something that people almost always but that's their number one regret [TS]

  when I have data loss they lost their photos from you know X. [TS]

  Time interval or this entire kid's existence [TS]

  or something like that so I think the benefit here is impossible to to overstate where we were talking about this many [TS]

  times we all want this we all want we all want it to be to someone to take care of photos what I'm saying now is not [TS]

  that I think it's a bad idea for our photos to be in a cloud is that I want someone to take care my photos [TS]

  and I'm not sure that Apple is the one that I trust and even like [TS]

  and even the ever pick scenario the reason ever picked was exciting was because every pixel promise take care of all [TS]

  your photos but they I was not in trusting my first ever pics because I still had by I photo lab [TS]

  or you know I mean I was still backing up I like it was. It was one more thing. [TS]

  It's the scariest of saying not only is Apple volunteering to take care of your photos [TS]

  and not only do you hope Apple's going to do this right but your photos won't be anyplace else. [TS]

  Like you know you when you have like all your eggs in one basket and you just better watch that basket right. [TS]

  And if it works like that's exactly what happened please take care of the photo problem for us [TS]

  and like you said like the amount of local data like him I would just all buy Chromebook at this point because the [TS]

  thing is we want you know everything than Dropbox and i Cloud and your photos are all backed up [TS]

  and messages are all back to one local data is like your you know your e-mails on a server somewhere using i Map like [TS]

  your the stuff that's local to your device. [TS]

  It becomes just like a local kashrut and what we're all looking for is like tiered storage with good fast local cash [TS]

  but none of your data needs to be there so you can smash your computer with a hammer get a new [TS]

  and sign in with your Apple I.D. [TS]

  Download Dropbox and thought wait a day and a half first for your caches to warm up and then you're back in business. [TS]

  That's where we want to all get a sense that I'm not sure Apple is the one who has proven that they want to take their [TS]

  you know Cloud get which apparently this is all based on is way better technologically speaking from a [TS]

  understandability standpoint from the previous one so science point in the right direction as does the idea that [TS]

  they're even doing this at all that they're having the guts to say they're putting all their eggs on the aperture gone [TS]

  i Photo gone photos is the way it climb back up for everything and they say trust us and link right [TS]

  and I think I totally agree with you that it is very important like how they implement the mac client things like how [TS]

  to store its files. [TS]

  Is there an option somewhere to say always store my entire library on this computer so you could do things like have to [TS]

  like maintain your own backups because you know look I mean it's important to I as much as I put a lot of faith in the [TS]

  Apple ecosystem. [TS]

  I'm also not an idiot and I will always maintain my own backups as well [TS]

  and I wouldn't use a photo system the didn't give me that option to easily and reasonably do that [TS]

  and automatically do that. [TS]

  Very important and I hope Apple knows that when they are implying this [TS]

  and this may be one of the things where it might get worse before get the better you know maybe Version one might not [TS]

  have much of that visibility or might not have the right limits [TS]

  or the right options rather well like you said like the people who care about that. [TS]

  That's not her this is I'm for [TS]

  and I wouldn't blame Apple for never having that feature in there is just that they just they need to get it right like [TS]

  the rest of it like they're the big thing is there needs to be some recourse. [TS]

  Say something goes we'll all your pictures are black like mine or in photo stream for a while. [TS]

  Or like you just get a bunch of black squares that are the right aspect ratios in the right sizes [TS]

  but they're all black. [TS]

  What do what do I do in that case that I just stare at it and hope to do I'd like to leave the photosphere install [TS]

  or do I delete all my log of those and rethink them like I have very credible things and I kept coming back black. [TS]

  What do I do at that point and if that was the only place my photos are I'd be freaking out right. [TS]

  And so I'm not saying again I think they need a way to debug this they just need either get it right all the time [TS]

  or give people some kind of tool to fix it when it's not getting it right all the time is preferable [TS]

  but maybe asking too much. [TS]

  As we move to this world of cloud stuff and cloud a host of things we do lose a lot of that flexibility [TS]

  and a lot of those fail safes of late if I want to for example if I want to move my entire i Tunes library to a new [TS]

  computer the the way I would always do it would be to actually move the entire directory over [TS]

  and it worked like because everything all the data it read was there and it was all you know bait in the one folder [TS]

  and you can quit the app move this folder restart the app being all the suddenly all your stuff. [TS]

  Whereas something like this it's more opaque or some of its cloud based you can't do that [TS]

  and so you really it does make it hard to do things like restore from a backup [TS]

  or you know like undo a major bulk change or like sign out of one Apple I.D. and Sign into another Apple I.D. [TS]

  and Then you're like oh these are going to blow away all my photos in the present all ideas are going to be smart [TS]

  and save them like I. [TS]

  A photo I mean they designed it in [TS]

  but then it kind of had the feature that's why you had applications like I thought a library manager [TS]

  or just hold down the option to you when you launch a photo if you don't know about that [TS]

  or like pick a different library so we have multiplied our libraries. [TS]

  But we just put things off various time but that is not thinking less commonly used feature I think. Right exactly. [TS]

  I will we are overdue for a sponsor so let's pause this discussion now. We could put it in a parking lot. [TS]

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  or days I figured out you could start getting your email it's a pain I don't our lot it's a pain trust me [TS]

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  off thank you very much to her. Right so we don't want this photo thing. [TS]

  We're never done with the photo thing but we can be done tonight. That's what I meant. [TS]

  I mean we're at work or turning into the props at this point we're probably going to. [TS]

  Now [TS]

  when the feedback on this to the next exciting step in the photos thing will be like after you know the release versions [TS]

  of all these different O.S.'s come out [TS]

  and I still mean there is any upgrade path I tried taking my high for a library and saying Here you go photos [TS]

  when you may get us and then we wait. [TS]

  I suppose it's does it do I end in a functional final situation you know how long does it take to get the photos there [TS]

  are you know does it do I require double the amount of storage space to get to the final destination I know that will [TS]

  be an exciting day. Certainly I will do a lot of backups first. [TS]

  One thing though that [TS]

  when this this is a really really promising thing for people who have smart devices like this is I mean this is going [TS]

  to dramatically reduce the amount of space or he will need [TS]

  and eyeless devices which is funny is like that the other rumors are this might be found to be year where they start at [TS]

  thirty two have been going to storage but I keep hoping that frightens mattress i like i Tunes Match except [TS]

  when it totally destroys my installation of my pins causing it to absorb gigabytes of them every time I launch it. [TS]

  But other than that when it works he says I like it [TS]

  and I like the idea that you know I'm able with devices because the whole idea is that if I start to run out of space [TS]

  the Oh I suppose. [TS]

  Oh well let me just are ditching some of these you know some some of these audio files because I know there are items [TS]

  match at the purse in the sense of the modest stream them down later you know I mean [TS]

  and supposed to be like cash basis expendable. [TS]

  I don't need to sink a particular playlist on my i Pod I can have my time use a collection of Elbel [TS]

  and just the songs that I play can be there [TS]

  and there's a little cloud button you can say download this whole playlists and stuff like that [TS]

  and I hope that doesn't mean that it's now going to going to refuse to expunge from memory the ones that forcibly [TS]

  downloaded but every time I start a top and disk space [TS]

  and like want to just pull things some stuff off i Tunes Match that's the kind of the point of it so photos all over [TS]

  the same thing that I have access to all my photos [TS]

  but that at any one time I don't guarantee that any of them are actually on the device because you know they would not [TS]

  fit. Yeah I think that's how it was advertised to work. [TS]

  Will have to go up to see what happens [TS]

  but I'm pretty sure that was the whole idea was that all your photos will be backed up as long as you subscribe to one [TS]

  of these plan things [TS]

  and what you get for free you get a pretty good amount it wasn't a twenty gig something whatever it is. [TS]

  It's pointless for me [TS]

  but yeah for regular people to get started a thing to get you suckered into eventually having to pay right. [TS]

  But yeah I think the whole idea was like this is this is a big part of I think their solution to Iowa storage [TS]

  management which is just start removing some of them some of the biggest things that fill their own space [TS]

  and make it so they're removable. [TS]

  Make it so they can be extra purged basically based on rocket type because you can't really purge apps I mean they [TS]

  haven't gotten to that point that the apps are going to stay so if you download something gigantic will they do run the [TS]

  cleaning things. Yeah the cleaning path that kills all the apps temporary things and delete all your new senators. [TS]

  In theory they could delete like oh we're going to get rid of anybody getting in the next time you play will download [TS]

  after you tap it also could I go on there but [TS]

  when you capital be like oh you actually remove that from your system earlier I'll see if there's a renowned Elena [TS]

  Kagan blood from a stone like storage is that they don't have magical transparent tiered storage ending with cloud [TS]

  quite yet but that is all along the path there. [TS]

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  Thanks on the dot com John you want to tell me what you think about the Airport Extreme. [TS]

  I don't think much about it all because I don't have one other than I didn't like it because it has a fan [TS]

  but we discussed that in the past [TS]

  but today someone I saw something retreated from Jim Ray on Twitter a friend who read tweeted it [TS]

  and it was about the new airport you know the big tower thing thing that looks like a tissue box stood on its end [TS]

  and is designed to hold a hard drive but only that I'm capturing all the hard drive. But both. [TS]

  Time Capsule and the hard drive less airport use the same case. [TS]

  Anyway this was not about the fans or the hard drive this is about ports on the back to you guys. [TS]

  Load the pictures that I put in there. I did I saw that a nice totally right. [TS]

  All right so here's a tweet from Jim Ray It's a design is how it works in quotes. [TS]

  Hey Johnny which is spelled wrong that's OK maybe turn the ports ninety degrees who you actually employed [TS]

  and plug the goddamn things. [TS]

  And he's what he's talking about is the ether not jacks on the back of this vertical power Airport base station. [TS]

  The Internet ports are done so the little clicky whatever you call it release thing on the I do forty five things is on [TS]

  the top [TS]

  but the ports are stacked on top of each other so to release the middle one you have to wedge your finger between the [TS]

  middle and the top one and get your fingernail on that little thing and then tried to disengage it [TS]

  and he's saying rotated ninety degrees so that all of the little whatever they are releasing these would all be [TS]

  accessible it all be on the left side [TS]

  or on the right side instead of having them starting to shove your fingers between the two parts the picture explains [TS]

  it better or put the picture in the shards you can take a look at it [TS]

  and I retrieve this who I thought this was a very good point and it reminded me of a sore spot that I have. [TS]

  I'm calling it Johnny I have design which is not fair because he's the head of a large design team he's not designing [TS]

  all these things himself he's not even like telling people how they should be designed because a team of people [TS]

  designing them presumably approves them or disapproves or gives advice but it's not all his fault [TS]

  but if you imagine Johnny Ives sitting around like for like ninety days working on this brand new revolutionary design [TS]

  for a wireless router. [TS]

  Well the thing is like people think that he's there [TS]

  and he designs everything so they come out you know it it was his idea to make the MAC a trash can it was his idea to [TS]

  design them I get like and certain things are his idea but here he has he has certain things that are his designs [TS]

  but so many things other things aren't He's got an entire team but he is the figurehead and so I'm blaming it on him. [TS]

  As you know the bus got to stop somewhere. When I look at this I know exactly why the ports are that way on this thing. [TS]

  So I tell myself and you know but I just go into the mind of Johnny Ive or the mind of his organization that he runs [TS]

  and I've looked at all the products they've made over the years and it [TS]

  and it seems clear to me that they're like they are that way because it looks better that way. And this is the tension. [TS]

  Aesthetics versus usability [TS]

  and the whole design is how it works things makes it sound like that the balance is way over. [TS]

  Usability is the most important thing and and statics are secondary [TS]

  but if you look at any device that came out of the Johnny Ive Apple even the priest of jobs that he had a hand in [TS]

  designing or was ahead of the design studio and it was made. [TS]

  Athletics is a huge part of our design [TS]

  and far be it for me to say that section be a factor because then everything will of Iraq so good grips right. [TS]

  But even then this and I started scripting in there but there's a balance between make it usable [TS]

  but also make it look nice. [TS]

  But hopefully don't compromise and usability too much for the sake of aesthetics [TS]

  and I think the Johnny Ive apples we're going to call it that has crossed the line many many times [TS]

  and is stubborn about it and will not go back on this. [TS]

  The back of the airport looks like a situation where they crossed why not a big deal because all the people on Twitter [TS]

  replied that oh how often do you plug unplug things who really cares. It's not to hard to wedge your fingers in there. [TS]

  If they rotated ninety degrees it will be more expensive in all sorts of other things like that. [TS]

  And I mostly didn't pursue these avenues except for the most expensive more expensive ones so I look at I really want [TS]

  to I think to tear down to see what the heck was going on inside there. [TS]

  And that's another link in the notes and it turns out that the ports [TS]

  but should not be surprising anybody who has seen one of these towers or the new macro. [TS]

  The ports are already at forty five degree angles coming off of the printed circuit board. [TS]

  So there are obviously expense is not this is not like what's the cheapest way we can. [TS]

  These ports pop out of this board dishonor man they're already coming out of the forty five degree angle [TS]

  and they're coming out of the forty five degree angle with the contacts running I don't know how to explain this. [TS]

  The distance from each contact to the printed circuit board is different so the contact closest to you [TS]

  when you're looking at the printed circuit board flat is much longer than the contact closest to the board because it's [TS]

  and I know that way if they were rotated ninety degrees as suggested it seems to me that if anything it would either be [TS]

  the same price [TS]

  or cheaper to mount in that way because then all the contacts from the connectors have equal distances to the board. [TS]

  But who knows maybe the same process [TS]

  but the point is that this device was not designed with cost concerns you look at how it was constructed it's kind of [TS]

  like the mac pro unlike the hard drive on an angle in the middle with the fins in Mercer a chimney type effect [TS]

  and it is it's a very fancy design [TS]

  and is not made to be the cheapest possible thing to manufacture inside it looks fairly expensive so I'm not going to [TS]

  buy cost there. [TS]

  You're back to write so if it's not of course isn't there why are these things vertical [TS]

  and I really do you think it looks better when they are vertical. [TS]

  It's symmetrical if you were to divide the device in half vertically if you were to draw a straight line down the [TS]

  middle of these ports and split in half. [TS]

  It's symmetric on the right [TS]

  and left side whereas at the ports were sideways the rest of the device to be very clear symmetrical [TS]

  but then the ports would not be one half would have the little flanges one F. [TS]

  Wouldn't have it and this is not that big a deal. [TS]

  But it's emblematic of the line that I think the modern apple crosses many other times I put a couple examples other [TS]

  examples to show notes that I've complained about previously on the show. The MacBook keyboards. [TS]

  This is a little bit economics too so you can throw Tim Cook under the bus for this one as well. [TS]

  Why does the fifteen inch [TS]

  and why did back in the day the seventeen inch one have the exact same keyboard as the smaller model. Makes no sense. [TS]

  There's no reason that the current fifteen inch MacBook Air can afford size Archy's Oh there's a reason because they [TS]

  want to use the same. Exactly where they do on all the other mac books and on the areas that matter. [TS]

  There's an economy of scale there but it's also making the larger product worse. [TS]

  Most charitably to save money and lease charitably. [TS]

  Because if you put forth as our piece in the keyboard would be symmetrical any more and it looks ugly. [TS]

  So that's why I didn't have false Isaac He's the little inverted T. [TS]

  Would be on one side but not in the other or any sort of key type arrangement to try to get a reasonable inverted T. [TS]

  In there would necessarily bump out somewhere or push another he's around [TS]

  or otherwise be awkward ports on the back of the IMAX. [TS]

  It's great being able to plug things in the front of my old style power macro universe have to bend down a little bit [TS]

  for it. [TS]

  Having ports accessible to you [TS]

  when you want to plug something in quickly is great the I'm a little bored in the back because it's prettier every time [TS]

  you want to play something you can dig around back where it is not comfortable it's not a good experience. [TS]

  That's actually one of the frequent annoyances that the new macro is that there isn't. I don't have to front U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports anymore and I use this all the time on my old macro and and the new one if I want a U.S.B. Port. [TS]

  I need to turn the thing around and go to the back and get fingerprints all over it [TS]

  and it's not nearly as useful as having them right there on the front [TS]

  but I recognize that it would it would not look as good if it had U.S.B. Ports on the front side. [TS]

  Now that's a little bit of a size constraint to that machine so much smaller that so many things become O. [TS]

  The answer is that I have a breakout box and so you could have a little break out U.S.B. [TS]

  Hub [TS]

  and stick them on your desk somewhere like that's always the answer for that tiny little macros all you can fit inside [TS]

  and you can fit it on but you can connect the cable to [TS]

  and then have a peripheral I give it a little bit of an out for the sizing [TS]

  but it's similar in your mentioning how weird it is to try to plug things into the back of it like are the ports [TS]

  aligned along a line that goes through the center of the mac [TS]

  or are they I don't even know the answer that you can tell me are they are the ports parallel to each other in the two [TS]

  rows or are they all perpendicular to the horizontal surface of the. It's perpendicular to a tangent of the circle. [TS]

  I don't think you mean However the the surface that the ports are on is curved with the case. [TS]

  Right but what are the ports like our other two U.S.B. Ports parallel to each other. [TS]

  If you would extend lines out along the U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports would they be parallel to each other with WOULD THEY lines intersect they would diverge two U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports are pointed in different directions yet because they follow the curvature right so that you could make the two [TS]

  U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports both exactly like flatting going forward instead they both go towards the center [TS]

  and so you have to sort of calculate the angle [TS]

  when you're pulling in back there are two cables jut out of it at angles instead of driving up stream [TS]

  and other parts feel the same to you have like you have to turn around [TS]

  and look because like all the ports are almost the same size [TS]

  and all feel the same like you have your THE for you as B.'s [TS]

  and the six hundred volts right next to each other everything is very close to each other [TS]

  and so it's not made to be done blindly I want to share I'm saying the U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports are parallel we're all using the wrong terms I'm visualizing the right thing in my head about it anyway. [TS]

  What we're saying is that if you took that U.S.B. [TS]

  Port and put a really really hard [TS]

  and just tunnel through the device in exactly the direction of the port it was at the center of the mac pro [TS]

  and that's true for both of the ports and they would in effect. [TS]

  That's correct yes and if you plug in if people didn't you cable to them that were not flexible [TS]

  or were just straight rods they would form diverging line right [TS]

  and so everything from parallel as the other option that could have gone with this of the U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports are exactly parallel. [TS]

  And if you were to extend cables out from them forever perfectly stiff they were never at each other that's what we're [TS]

  talking about. Anyway I don't know that's a compromise for aesthetics but you know. [TS]

  The ports in the back of the IMAX stand out because they are making such a massive machine [TS]

  and it's supposed to be a home machine it's the type of thing that people might plug and unplug things in [TS]

  but they had to be and I was going to Cuba that's kind of a low blow. [TS]

  Where are the portraits not only on the back but underneath on the back [TS]

  and it was super hard to get those because they look better [TS]

  and the final I put in there was Iowa seven buns I mean they got rid of the button outline because. [TS]

  Look nicer but then it wasn't always clear whether something was a button [TS]

  and I'm not saying these are like fatal flaws in that [TS]

  or that they're always over this line I'm saying there is a line and you have to decide where in that line you fall [TS]

  and I feel like my opinion of good design is closer to usability [TS]

  or at the usability side of the spectrum in that in the challenge in the tension between aesthetic amusedly I [TS]

  appreciate the aesthetics I like that they are pretty but I'm not just designing them in a lab and looking at plans [TS]

  and looking at the beautiful Polish fingerprint for a thing on a pedestal and saying My work is done. [TS]

  I'm using the things every day and that's where the aesthetics start to fade [TS]

  and not so much as I don't want some ugly P.C. [TS]

  Tower like I like the aesthetic I like having beautiful things on my desk they make me feel better to have nice things [TS]

  like a marker you talked about looking your little macro makes you happy to have that thing there [TS]

  but there is that there there's a line between that and use a billion fans [TS]

  and how much do you value that niceness over difficulty of getting of the ports [TS]

  and you know on the other one I want to mention that the edges of the mac books that used to be super sharp [TS]

  when they were university things and you're not supposed to rest the rest please everybody if you're resting [TS]

  or rest on something when you type do not rest your ass but the dominant people do occasionally restaurants [TS]

  and it was way too sharp and why because it looked really nice it really did look very elegant [TS]

  but there's a line there and it's like that I mean it took the edge off [TS]

  and later models it is OK with not quite make it that show I still think it's a little bit over the line in terms of it [TS]

  looks like a beautiful piece of sculpture [TS]

  but it's not quite as pleasing to handle as it would be if it was a little bit more rounded over. [TS]

  But anyway these are just a couple examples I'm sure people come with their own I did feel like that this balance that [TS]

  we have a difference of opinion if I ever got to interview Johnny Ive this is all I were talking about is how do you [TS]

  manage a tension between as statics and usability and why are you so wrong in all these cases [TS]

  and would be a great interview you would love it. I think everyone else. [TS]

  No never talked to him about design it's a shame we're going to get interviews [TS]

  and they just talk to him in a way that he can speak in generalities No never I mean that's not an interview. [TS]

  So I'm a terrible interviewer like an interview if you let the interviewer talk about things you don't have an axe to [TS]

  grind with them but anyway yours is an interrogation you're more of an interrogation style less [TS]

  and this is why I don't give you people but anyway I think I would enjoy it. [TS]

  I think honestly most people would enjoy listening to interrogation of those who would not enjoy being interrogated I [TS]

  think it would be a fruitful discussion because I'm sure he has reasons behind all these things [TS]

  and it's not like one is like totally wrong and one is fully right is just where do we draw that line and why. [TS]

  And I mean maybe I'm alone in thinking that that I have is a little bit farther on the aesthetics towards the aesthetic [TS]

  spectrum that I think most people are like we all love aesthetics we all love beautiful Max We all love our beautiful i [TS]

  OS devices we obviously value aesthetics probably way more than the average person we're willing to pay all this money [TS]

  for it like in just the hardware the software everything like we place value on this is just that there is sometimes [TS]

  just seems to go a little bit too far and in the end one little tiny area [TS]

  and you feel like I would give up that little aesthetic lurch I would give up perfectly symmetrical ports just turned [TS]

  ninety degrees even if I don't unplug unplug the things that three times a year [TS]

  when I have to reach back there to unplug something it drives me nuts [TS]

  and I salvage I just kind of rotated ninety degrees. I never look at the back of the thing anyway. [TS]

  It would make life so much easier [TS]

  and he would be tasked with defending the beauty of the symmetrical arrangement of something that people don't look at [TS]

  and doesn't give them as much joy as say a super shiny mac protest. [TS]

  Well also like oh Johnny could you maybe add more than three Eastern ports like really on the top of the line wireless [TS]

  router I don't think he's taken that I'm not going to blame him for the number of parts [TS]

  but it's like you know like you have to [TS]

  and this is part of design you have to consider design in practice in real life what people actually do apply design [TS]

  right [TS]

  and the reality is if you only have three even at ports a lot of people are going to ruin your awesome design of putting [TS]

  a big fat ugly switch right next to it. [TS]

  Similar thing with the MacPro like if you don't build enough stuff people use or enough storage capacity. [TS]

  Enough things enough capabilities you're going to have this beautiful metal cylinder next to the crappiest blue L.E.D. [TS]

  Filled U.S.B. [TS]

  Hub and ten thousand Thunderball enclosures and drive enclosures [TS]

  and all this crap that ruins a design like that that the To me that's actually a design flaw if you're making a design [TS]

  that doesn't account for real life and in a real life it will be it will simply become worse [TS]

  and they want to think of these designers desks I think has even mentioned one of the John absolutely [TS]

  but here's someone else when I think of their desk I think of them arranging their beautifully designed products [TS]

  and the number like that they would buy special white cables to exactly for this they would arrange just meant they [TS]

  would just have their their mac book and they would probably not even have a cable to a big display [TS]

  and maybe like these two beautiful little speakers like what they would do is say if this doesn't have enough ports [TS]

  and it doesn't have any items then I don't want it. [TS]

  Because having that item would destroy the aesthetic purity of this static value not purity [TS]

  but like just that that this is a beautiful arrangement [TS]

  and I would really like it if I could have an extra hard drive or more U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports but I do not want that feature enough to take an ugly U.S.B. [TS]

  Hub [TS]

  and shove it on here you know that's that's where they're drawing the line they say maybe it would be nice to have more [TS]

  U.S.B. Ports but I'm willing to forego the U.S.B. [TS]

  Ports to have a nicer desk arrangement [TS]

  and I make a different value judgement for my desk I will say I would rather have the U.S.B. [TS]

  Port despite the fact that I can't stand how ugly it is like you just said. [TS]

  And at that point then you revisit and why doesn't help so if you use the ports [TS]

  or why does it have to view them as far as maybe that's a cost thing maybe it's a feature thing or whatever like [TS]

  but those are the trails even given the size of a lot of the mac books like this fifteen inch Retina MacBook Pro [TS]

  probably had room for one more U.S.B. Port on the side it would really make my life easier. [TS]

  Again you can't tell if that's caused concern or space constraints inside there whatever [TS]

  but some some issues are more cut and dry [TS]

  and I think the keyboard on the fifteen inches they is probably my biggest issue. [TS]

  Economics aside this is an expensive piece of hardware. Give me for size Eric you give me a different keyboard. [TS]

  Well I can also see that see the benefit there of. [TS]

  As a user that all the keyboards and all the Apple products are all the same keyboard like that [TS]

  or they're close enough rather than rotating through my my fleet of Apple devices how many laptops to people have you [TS]

  know and I'm willing to say when I'm on that [TS]

  when I'm on the thirteen inch one I'll use the compact keyboard I went on this is the ones I want the expense of people [TS]

  like me at that point want to just have all of your Macs have whatever the small screen any of them have because on [TS]

  your screen your engine will always be the same it's all right we should probably end the show. [TS]

  Thanks let two or three sponsors this week Bigloo hover and Lynda dot com and we will see you next week. [TS]

  Now this show is over. It was accidental accidental. John thank you for time. [TS]

  Now sitting here as I said to that list and Michael you guys. Oh you're still here. My show but still up. [TS]

  That's amazing. [TS]

  My father said it died I saw a message in a chat room like an hour ago that said it was down there crazy [TS]

  and it didn't have any did it and then there is a just like they're empty. No it's real. It's their marriage. [TS]

  You don't give me any respect I am loading the page now [TS]

  but I'm going to see that we're connecting in a really big font. [TS]

  We're going to matter what I was going to see the loading animations of sorry sorry does of communication where I will [TS]

  try to load a page and it makes me think that it thinks the O. S. [TS]

  Is that a file descriptors for the Michael why is it waiting. This site should be fast. [TS]

  Why is not opening I know the system is not out of out of scope is manifest in a different way that I've actually run [TS]

  into situations where the system has been at a file of scriptures because I run local databases [TS]

  and that happens sometimes if you don't adjust your kind of parameters and will just be sitting there [TS]

  and in the time that I'm waiting for the page to load I will copy the out of the address bar go over to crow make an [TS]

  attempt then load the web page loads instantly. [TS]

  I go back to Safari [TS]

  and I'll still be way anywhere now it's as list as more the blue gradient in a safari address bar is about a little [TS]

  less than halfway. I still see nothing underneath the little have little now bar still waiting for it to work. [TS]

  You should restore your phone. [TS]

  I agree I'm going to do right now I'm going to take I think this text I'm going to go over to Chrome paste in the [TS]

  U.R.L. Load it says connecting titles have loaded boom done. [TS]

  Let me go back as far as you know it's doing OK It's finally loaded people wonder why I want to run both Safari Ingram [TS]

  all day this is why. So now that it is survived an entire show because even if it craps out now I'm counting it. [TS]

  Is there a sort by vote now [TS]

  and that's exactly what I was about to say is I think the next step is sort of what it means is No sir [TS]

  but what the point of the show bought a business [TS]

  or buy votes because I wanted to make sure the show bot could leave John. I wanted light to find a way. [TS]

  Can I complain about the layout again. [TS]

  You can't because I don't remember I took notes on a couple of them and I did change it. [TS]

  I like the Not centre line anymore but you have you have a number. [TS]

  Then sometimes you have a blue plus or minus thing that I can tell there's a control [TS]

  or something then you have a title then you have author. [TS]

  And time to the time fine whatever author seems to work the titles are OK a little bit close to votes [TS]

  but I have no idea what's in the vote come I see a number in the blue. [TS]

  What is the blue plus one sometimes therefore it's to vote though this is the Johnny I have again I could not tell [TS]

  these were controlled [TS]

  but do you because you made the text blue I'm supposed to surmise this is a button I suppose I can mouse over [TS]

  and see the hand cursor as well but that is not obvious to me as a control at all. [TS]

  So you'd rather see like an affair [TS]

  or something I dunno something looks like a control I mean that's that's the challenge I could use to be the way you [TS]

  made similar controls you drew a little puffy fake three D. [TS]

  Mal and you know like you do something it was raised or bevelled or she did [TS]

  or seem to be raised you know let you do something to look like you could President [TS]

  and in the Iowa seven thing is now just change tack scar no border needed doesn't need to be raised does need to be [TS]

  anything that's where it looks like based on my list and I've not yet looked it graduates list laughing at your show [TS]

  but with you has the most show about lives as number one you know it's not sordid story over the working title for the [TS]

  man [TS]

  and you'd have to have so I think we're going to have those earning as the first thing you do is buy votes no the first [TS]

  thing you do is keep them here. It's like speeding correctness a new one for speed. [TS]

  No I went through the thing that doesn't self destruct. [TS]

  That's what I went for it so your program here really festive is not correct in your show about can be up all the time [TS]

  but it does not start by titles the first thing that we want to use a show bought for it doesn't help anyway. [TS]

  Congratulations on it staying up like I said all it is our boobs. I gotta go find a few of the show notes. [TS]

  Oh no it just died. Oh no really. Yeah connecting that through an error I know now it still counts. [TS]

  Well I did make it through the whole show we were actually able to use the data. [TS]

  Just all I'm doing this I don't know what happened it says. [TS]

  Basically try to do something on a socket that apparently was not open. [TS]

  Oh my God I had a hell of a week now it's going to I'm I'm almost ready to ship. I was going to say sold over gas. [TS]

  Where did you say heated you say you're almost ready to what now. Ship. [TS]

  OK yeah sure the pop market but he started he started the party creating it you know it. [TS]

  No I'm afraid of that speaking of Yeah well it's one of those things that has to happen. [TS]

  Yeah I know it scares me i do it for the eighteenth birthday. Yeah. Cokie figured it out and that tends not to work. [TS]

  My experience you know I think what happened is I think it was a race condition where it actually germy Banks's just [TS]

  pull request God I love open source [TS]

  and looking at it not having seen what he said in his poll request it looks like it was a race condition where perhaps [TS]

  a socket disconnected but it hadn't been removed from my internal list of sockets. [TS]

  Looking at the show but there were six. [TS]

  Take your co-host to work day is probably is the number one of the actually the usable I think [TS]

  and not it is it isn't about the show being up there you know to show that system is not going to scale that a lot. [TS]

  But was that in reference to what you said to Casey reference to his his photo non-management technique. [TS]

  Yeah I guess if you never look at your photos any system scales permanent trash I mean I think I like it if you never [TS]

  look at them even one time after you took them. [TS]

  Why bother putting them into day to organize photos that I like the idea that you think you're going to remember like [TS]

  the year let alone the month or week that some memorable event happened [TS]

  and then you're going to go to vote that you're going to go right to that folder [TS]

  and find the picture that you are that is a fantasy scenario of a young person. [TS]

  I bet there's a lot of people who say they have an easy vote a man who is scheme for them right. [TS]

  Beautifully rendered trash. And then your doc. Well that's that's kind of that's my strategy. [TS]

  So I have one of these scan snap scanners that everybody bought five years ago. [TS]

  What I did do and and so any kind of anything any paperwork I get in the mail I scan it [TS]

  and I you know I deal with it I scan [TS]

  and I shred it so I have I was I was really trying to like make this folder system where we're going to let your bills [TS]

  or go in this folder and the gas bill goes in this folder and everything else [TS]

  and I gave up on that like within a couple weeks now [TS]

  and since I got this thing in since a few weeks after I got this thing my system has been. [TS]

  I just scan everything into one giant folder and the filename timestamp based you know just date but it does O.C.R. [TS]

  The like isn't the whole point that it O.C.R. [TS]

  Them so you can just type the name of your gas or electric company know follow it and find them a dozen O.C.R. Them. [TS]

  It doesn't by default and my mind is the five ten and it's a pretty old I think about it like two thousand and seven. [TS]

  It's pretty old and and the softer the software it came with was very very slow to O.C.R. [TS]

  and Was this whole separate after launch and I would quit [TS]

  and so it added too many steps to the process so I stopped doing that to a now I just have the images [TS]

  and my my strategy is they all just get scanned into this one giant folder sorted by date. [TS]

  If I ever have to find something I just go and flip through it I flip the flip with the other keys in quick look. [TS]

  Presently the volume is lower there like the number of photos taken years lower the number of bills you get in a year [TS]

  and that is where you're looking for years to an IRA comes in are you enjoying stuffing twenty thirteen you want data [TS]

  organized everything from twenty thirty and here you go. [TS]

  Right but I'm saying it's we're going to think we're like it's mostly a write only system. [TS]

  It's right it's right most of the time read very occasionally and so it's so right to be quick and simple [TS]

  and reads don't need to be that [TS]

  and so it's a similar kind of thing like that's how most people I think treat their photo library where you have to be [TS]

  able to just add to it without any effort whatsoever even if that come. [TS]

  At the expense of if you want to find some particular one it might take you a few extra minutes because you haven't [TS]

  spent hours over the last few years building up this giant system of meditating and sorting [TS]

  and organizing Wilson said that actually the Iowa state has a little heart on every picture that you can just kept [TS]

  going to Instagram style to save right [TS]

  and I think the next step in that would be it could be that they now don't think they have the wrong default for the [TS]

  kind of in the messages were like and I was saying you have to say that you want to keep them. [TS]

  What if I decided that if you didn't pay for i Cloud Storage it would still be doing the ones that you didn't hard you [TS]

  know like your pictures I mean I don't think that's the right thing to do [TS]

  but like because so few pictures come out well or ever need to be looked at again. [TS]

  I bet most people's photo collections could be reduced by like eighty percent without any sentimental loss because of [TS]

  just the huge volume of garbage pictures that people have in their collections [TS]

  and it's like what they really care about is one or two or three good pictures of their kid every age that they were [TS]

  or a particularly memorable event but not the hundreds of pictures that people end up taking [TS]

  and you know just seven shots of the of the same person within a succession like burst mode stuff like real cameras I [TS]

  mean real I mean real photographers you know have to discard that stuff because they can't keep all of it forever [TS]

  and they respect I want to do good with a lot of the aperture Richter was was about based advertising I go here's how [TS]

  you can pick your seven good shots out of the eight hundred you took right regular people are not that severe [TS]

  but the whole idea that you can take a lot of pictures most of them are going to be crap. [TS]

  Put the little hearts on the one of the you like [TS]

  and that's your tool later for if you want to thin out your set of photos. Ditch the ones with the hearts. [TS]

  Oh yeah I mean totally like the few times I'll occasionally be in the mood. [TS]

  You know my photo library and I'll go back and like other that lead to whatever pictures from like a year ago [TS]

  and I find this tremendous fall around like why why do I keep like eighty percent of these and I'll go through [TS]

  and you know take. [TS]

  Like hours to go through like a year with photos [TS]

  and delete all the crap the blurry ones that the alternate takes that ended up using a different one [TS]

  or that you know I took three different photos of the same thing and I picked the best one to use [TS]

  but I forgot to delete the other two and I can I can cut down a year photos down by eighty [TS]

  or ninety percent without really losing anything of value. Jeff I do nap but even that most people don't even do that. [TS]

  I hardly even do that you know and I just talked about it like it most people never do that. [TS]

  A great cross-eyed scripting attack just popped up on T.V. [TS]

  Show bot which is funny because I literally just fixed my website in like two seconds ago. [TS]

  A little a little alert just popped up [TS]

  and says Page at triple W K two S dot com says you should follow me on Twitter at Jeremy banks I post rarely so much. [TS]

  OK Good job Jerry banks now going to tell you that if your name wasn't likable I would take too much effort to cuff him. [TS]

  Also you just tax cases for show but he kick and I know it's down don't know I don't know if you had it. [TS]

  Well it was an issue and it wasn't really a hack [TS]

  but he has survived because he's been actively trying to fix these owner abilities rather than just find them in you [TS]

  know if you can hear it I'm assuming you just paste the javascript into the titles [TS]

  and then you have to give really rendered javascript into the domino software go skating What's that. [TS]

  So we got slightly side track so overcast you're pretty much ready What's the hold up. [TS]

  The hold up was well you know what the hold up was Who's your on the beta [TS]

  but I basically had a pretty sizable feature that I really decided that I wanted to add last minute [TS]

  and so I probably I had some it was almost one point of a few days ago and then I realized you know what. [TS]

  This feature I was going to lay until you know some time where I actually want to have it in one point. [TS]

  So I bumped it up and I did that in a few days and so I basically only have I have probably two more betas to ship. [TS]

  I have the next beta which is going to be like the feature complete one [TS]

  and then after that is going to be like the release candidate in old Windows problems I don't want to still using R C [TS]

  one R C two or is that only an old Windows thing. [TS]

  Still windows things far as I knew although I don't really keep up with that very much anymore. [TS]

  Anyway yeah so that's that's where I am I'm I'm I'm like the build before release candidate probably going out the next [TS]

  couple days. Release Candidate probably coming out later this week and then. [TS]

  Then I'll probably submit next weekend or early in the week after that I don't know and I'm very very close. [TS]

  Did you ever find that bug. Someone reported about the U.I. Showing up grey like tentacle are all gone. [TS]

  No I have been experiencing it way a plea. Yeah I I should some one time trying to find a workaround. [TS]

  Yeah there's a bug. [TS]

  You probably if you've ever used an Iowa seven device you probably are into this at least once maybe in mail [TS]

  or some other like standard after use of the tint color where the tent color gets stuck as a great because what happens [TS]

  is when there's an alert box popped up or something like an alert box any kind of system ovulate that U.I. [TS]

  Kit you know usefully changes the tint color on the on the background window to gray so that we all like all the [TS]

  controls that have the bright color for their tint color fade into gray in the background so they don't so they are [TS]

  louder than not just while looking at the solar boxes in front of them and then when you [TS]

  when you cancel you cancel that box out then it goes in puts the color back. [TS]

  The problem is it doesn't always put the color back then and under certain conditions that I haven't quite figured out. [TS]

  Your team color will get stuck at Grey and not all controls will will update or it's a mess [TS]

  and it happens occasionally in overcast and it drives me nuts [TS]

  and then it doesn't recover like it if it loses if it misses that chance. [TS]

  Do it like you know hang out and use a great U.I. [TS]

  For a while like it's not going to last you like mine it's always you know waking up from sleep so you already have to [TS]

  get have a second chance of doing that it's pretty to sleep again to go to another app switchback to achieve it so you [TS]

  know switch back to orange. Yeah it's driving me nuts and I can't I can't figure out what to do about it. [TS]

  I mean because I want the behavior I want to behave your of the Defiler radar. [TS]

  No actually I don't think so I said I don't think the ghost of Jerry will haunt you. [TS]

  Well it definitely seems like it's U.I. [TS]

  Kit bug and I could try to work around it [TS]

  but I'm not willing to do too much of a crazy hack to do that that's that's one thing I decided early on with it with [TS]

  overcast [TS]

  and so far I've stuck to it for the most part with Instapaper I would try to use crazy crazy hacks to work around [TS]

  limitations or bugs in you I can use the limitations usually not actual bugs but it was so hard to maintain [TS]

  and it wasn't really worth it like I would work around it to achieve like a certain transition or animation [TS]

  or feature that I that like you weren't supposed to be able to do in the A.P.I. [TS]

  or You know to try to try to mimic built in apple behavior in a way that wasn't publicly exposed [TS]

  and it just was never worth it even even some of the big stuff like pagination. [TS]

  Oh my God pagination was such a pile of hacks because until I was seven there was no A.P.I. [TS]

  To patent a web user you had to do it manually [TS]

  and I did it a few different ways they all were horrible hacks they all work but they were all horrible hacks. [TS]

  It really dramatically complicated the code and it took tons and tons of time to write and maintain all that [TS]

  and the end of the day like it wasn't that big of a deal it was [TS]

  and that makes your a feature it like I thought it would be [TS]

  and it really wasn't so with overcast early on decided like I'm just going to avoid most of those things that you know [TS]

  I'm using a lot of stock U.I. [TS]

  Kit with appearance customization [TS]

  but still I'm not rewriting my own navigating intro if I'm using the built in stuff I'm hardly even doing custom [TS]

  transitions anywhere I don't know if I have any cost. [TS]

  Anyway it's mostly you I could stuff because first of all one point [TS]

  and I didn't want to get too bogged down all it's up to the turns out turns up. [TS]

  Pod cast apps have a lot of screens and stuff. It's it's a lot more than I expected. [TS]

  This is a this is a much larger act than Instapaper. [TS]

  That's one of the take me so long as there is just so many screens [TS]

  and so much functionality that needs to be built in Considered to get what I think most people would consider like the [TS]

  bare minimum nest necessary functions of a modern podcast app and so it's just tons and tons of code and interfaces [TS]

  and screens and designs and strings and localization potential and [TS]

  and so I didn't want to also have this big pile of hacks that would that would make all that more complicated [TS]

  and it would take time that I needed to to do all the stuff in a recent time if you ask me if I ruined the surprise of [TS]

  your color scheme you showed the gigantic icon at X O X O like a year ago. [TS]

  Yeah and it's also on the Twitter bio [TS]

  and on the web page the web page even has the font I mean yeah it's it's pretty it's pretty obvious by looking at the [TS]

  preview page you have for it on the Web site roughly what the outlook like no big deal anyway. [TS]

  So that's where I am I'm very close. [TS]

  And I recognized by the way that this is completely ridiculous to rush to ship an app now as opposed to waiting for I [TS]

  was eight and I've thought about this a lot because I'm going to require I was eight. [TS]

  As to there possibly can be pretty much as soon as out I'm required the reality is that's still a few months away [TS]

  probably and we don't we don't know exactly. [TS]

  In my piece of timber might be October that's still a few months out [TS]

  and I really want to ship before the night you know I I'm already embarrassed it took this long I would have liked to [TS]

  ship months ago but oh well I didn't. Now I have I'm I'm now to shippable point so I don't see. [TS]

  Much of a reason to wait. [TS]

  You know I am going to require it immediately which means that it is going to be awkward phase of I'm going to support [TS]

  the i Phone four and the all i Pod Touches for like two months and then the cut off support for these people. [TS]

  That sucks [TS]

  but I I don't think there's a better way to do that while also taking full advantage of what I was a to offer so that [TS]

  makes sense. [TS]

  You got that you just explained in the end the beta thing how you're handling that to not disappoint users correct I [TS]

  don't want to reveal too much but yeah I mean [TS]

  and I'm going to I'm going to anger people anyway I mean like there's no question why people are going to be annoyed [TS]

  that that I have this app that supports these devices [TS]

  and then like two months later I start to bring those devices you know that is going to annoy people [TS]

  but I rather get it out there sooner. [TS]

  And because right now I haven't even started I was eight stuff yet on it like I haven't written a single line of code [TS]

  for it. I'm not even using I was a DK to build it I have I have the top of my laptop. [TS]

  Secondarily but on my desktop [TS]

  and do my main development I don't really have installed yet I haven't written any swift yet I haven't written. [TS]

  I haven't done anything I haven't done anything with the rotation [TS]

  or the size class stuff you know the sort of replace rotation I'm delaying all of that until I ship the IOA seven [TS]

  version and then after the seven version ships and is reasonably stable then I will start doing the version [TS]

  and you know and try to prepare time for eight one hundred I know I know it's coming close and make it quite on time [TS]

  but you'll be spending all your time doing the making of the U.I. Handle different size classes for the big arrival. [TS]

  Oh yeah I mean that's totally yeah I can but I don't I don't tend to actually have like an extension [TS]

  or anything on on day one of the most of them really sure what an extension would be immediately like there's obviously [TS]

  a can do like a like an add to overcast kind of thing but I want do that right. [TS]

  And so that I'm probably not going to have it on day one. [TS]

  I'm going to ship it soon is that the very short version of this very long story that goes nowhere. [TS]

  Now whenever you submit and you can choose not to answer this question [TS]

  but whenever you submit are you going to hold the release for some big marketing push or just like a day [TS]

  or two to get your stuff squared away and then let it rip. [TS]

  I'm going to set it on hold release [TS]

  but once it is releasable I don't think I would really hold back for much of anything unless like like an apple is [TS]

  going to feature it they might ask me to hold it back till Thursday or whatever but. [TS]

  But I don't know that's going to happen or not. [TS]

  I would guess of time I have probably not obviously because most apps don't get featured on launch. [TS]

  Chances are I'm going to have to release it when you know when I'm ready to. [TS]

  So like I want to do something a little more on the web site I want to have like a marketing page on the site so I'm [TS]

  going to have to like while it's scimitar I'm going to have to write that [TS]

  and you know if that's not done I might wait until it's done [TS]

  but I'm not going to more than a few days to need help thinking of three things to put in the standard bootstrap our [TS]

  layout of product marketing page three boxes. It's like powerful simple orange that's my suggestion. That's fantastic. [TS]

  Yeah I've actually I've considered marketing from the very beginning [TS]

  and I have in my giant task paper document that I that's kind of my my to do list and forecasts for this app. [TS]

  I've been considering marketing the whole time [TS]

  and so I like I've even I've even considered like what features go into one point [TS]

  or don't want to want to know based on how they support my overall like strong marketing points and you know [TS]

  and I know I know to talk about marketing for developers is weird and sometimes even taboo [TS]

  but it shouldn't be because it's it's kind of stupid not to consider these things [TS]

  and if you can consider these things and you can play to your strengths why not do it [TS]

  and so I have I've been considering that very strongly from the very end I'm I'm pretty sure we're going to put in [TS]

  these it's just a matter of doing it and yes this is a bootstrap site. [TS]

  We'll do the same from people one of those but it's probably going to have boxes featured in them and has a review. [TS]

  So much I mean like I think now finally I have the outline like I have I have it all in my head of what's need to be [TS]

  written is just right [TS]

  and you know actually not true this is the swift section I'm still trying to decide how I'm going to make it not be [TS]

  ridiculous I'm trying to focus on a few things I have one of the things sort of an idea of what I'm going to write [TS]

  there and a second one. [TS]

  I'm just putting off for now but the rest of the stuff they more [TS]

  or less know what I'm going to right now I'm just thinking about like I said bother taking screenshots swayed of course [TS]

  I can't do a lot of the testing with the hand off stuff or if they're going to support the dark U.I. [TS]

  Like they said they were going to I just need to write I need to plow forward bravely. [TS]

  I got through the introduction though so that's good. [TS]

  They That's something it is because you have got the facts to accept it with seven I was really hoping you were going [TS]

  to ask me that I'm really going to be you shipping. Yeah you are. [TS]

  If putting all and putting all this time into the show bought market and strike yes. [TS]