0:00:00So how does the Six Flags the other day. Hot was it water or not water.
0:00:05I guess not water we went to the water park
0:00:07but I didn't go in the water pry was the pack mule for the man I was carrying carrying a backpack with everyone's like
0:00:15you know I'd bring food and the like you know water bottles that we sold in the park
0:00:18and all the possible bathing suits
0:00:21and towels for the lawyer things in it which is fine I was willing to be the pack mule
0:00:25but like I'm too old to be spend
0:00:27and seven hours just walking around on hot black asphalt it wasn't like it was in the ninety's what it was like super
0:00:34hot or super human
0:00:35but it doesn't matter is wears you down like I was I was hunting for shade I was like there's a dumpster that's the
0:00:39shade I'm kind of interesting.
0:00:40Crouch in the shade while my kids wait on this you know to our landing on a roller coaster. Now you would.
0:00:47Oh no you're not a religious person to the emotions like never mind.
0:00:49Now Brokaw says I'm not a teacup person teacups of the worst drug work because that is repeated motion the puke your
0:00:56brains out right wrong cause over ninety seconds doesn't matter what you can do to you ninety seconds you're fine.
0:01:01So the surer you do you like roller coasters.
0:01:03I don't like them in general because I feel like I've gone
0:01:05and I've experienced everything there is to experience on a roller coaster from a thrill perspective
0:01:09and how the risk reward ratio is way down and on his ride run by teenager is that where the risk of death someone is
0:01:14and what is my reward.
0:01:16Experience that I've already had before like it's not anything new that is the most Johnny answer I'm ever heard I feel
0:01:21he needs the show somehow I don't like my family going on a visit here just when you think they're not well maintained.
0:01:27Six Flags is not Disney and you know actors happen all the time it's like there's a tiny risk
0:01:32but then for the rewards like why am I doing this like it's not you know.
0:01:36So anyway my kids go on them they can have all the experience that you have I feel I haven't done all that is there
0:01:41anything at an amusement park that you are amused but I like the roller coasters I enjoy the ride
0:01:47and on a good roller coaster but I just always think about like oh I can do is I look at the machinery
0:01:52and I look at the twelve year olds running the thing like it's not. You'll see I mean it was Wendell Adams old enough.
0:02:00On the things you be like he's like oh I want to go on the road cause you be like really want to go on it because you
0:02:06know you've seen the machinery.
0:02:07I'VE EVER SEEN the people running it like it's just there's no adult supervision
0:02:12and the maintenance on these things is not great like it's not really that I'm sure I'll feel the same
0:02:19and so I could start driving but you know something goes wrong a rollercoaster runs on that or save you.
0:02:27Yeah except for like quadruple the redundant systems that are keeping you on the track. Oh there it is.
0:02:32That's what they tell you you know these are just ancient wreck the best thing was that my kids wanted to go on like
0:02:37that have a row cause they're called the cycle on which is the name they were used as their six legs as a wooden
0:02:42coaster and it was closing July twentieth. So I was there was like four or five days ago or whatever.
0:02:49So that's what they were closing their eyes like will be the last one to ride it and look like it was peeling
0:02:55and watching the road course to go around
0:02:57and seeing the things swaying been no i go it's supposed to sway invents a wooden coasters do it like no thanks.
0:03:03They were going to write it right before everyone decides it's no longer worth maintaining for safety reasons.
0:03:07Exactly and I was like Well today it's fine but tomorrow because I was there is in today and tomorrow exactly.
0:03:14Well anyway we all survived and you know how they're going review. So tired of that experience.
0:03:25Do we want to talk about overcast for a little bit.
0:03:28Do we have to go I had this one this one that I wanted to answer the question if you want but you know that
0:03:35and I want to like totally make everyone sick of this. Now you had your moment. You're done.
0:03:39Exactly you made me have my moment I wasn't I was going to give it like ten minutes on the on the show.
0:03:43I know I'll just give you our time.
0:03:46All right so there was one thing a writer a listener named John wrote in the same kind of curious if you could talk
0:03:54about how weird is that you have to do so much server side work to do a podcast client the reader guide is not to deal
0:03:59with this. Stuff is a whole group of web based R.S.S. Processors that people can use for sinking.
0:04:03It seems wasteful to each developer has to reinvent the wheel
0:04:07and what they're different cells on usually has nothing to do with the server side work
0:04:11but the client features so what he's asking about is things like how we have to have Google Reader as a big thing
0:04:17service. Before that everyone just crawled their own feed from their R.S.S. Readers.
0:04:21After we were readers deaf we now have things like feed Wrangler and feebly and stuff like that.
0:04:27Other you know sync services
0:04:28and so you don't have to if you want to write a feed reader you don't have to write the whole server side yourself.
0:04:34In fact you probably shouldn't write any service write code you should probably just use the sync services
0:04:38and so you know basically why isn't there one of those for pod casts and I think there's a few reasons for that.
0:04:46First of all there's I mean I'm sure you could go to underscore David Smith
0:04:50and say hey I want to make one of these based on feed Wrangler and I'm pretty sure that's possible
0:04:56or he would let you do it.
0:04:57Either is already there or you could just ask him
0:04:59and he'd be like OK sure like I'm pretty sure most of the sync services if they don't already support that wouldn't
0:05:05have a problem with you doing that.
0:05:09I think I think the bigger question though is I think a stupid question here why do it yourself
0:05:15and why use a server side model at all
0:05:19and I think it was a very questions I mean why do it yourself is a political to lots of things
0:05:24and you know the number one answer to that is because I am me and I don't trust anyone
0:05:29and I don't like their partner tendencies much to a fault.
0:05:33The simple fact is you know when I
0:05:34when I make things I make things with the intention of them lasting a long time whether they do or not so the story
0:05:38but I want them to last for a long time you know and I look at like when I first started Instapaper in two thousand
0:05:45and eight.
0:05:45TIME What if I want to base on some of the service what service would that have been in two thousand eight hundred
0:05:52three were still running today.
0:05:54And if I would have like you know based the whole thing on the original like Facebook app platforms are things coming
0:05:59out around that time. We would that be today.
0:06:01You know stuff like that I like the whole you know basing yourself on someone else's entire service.
0:06:06What if your entire business was making Twitter clients this is the route very real thing that's happened to our people
0:06:11in our industry and you know so you know you can say oh one hundred dollars on X. but Over time X.
0:06:19Will go away and or or change in a way that makes it impossible for you to keep doing that
0:06:23and the question is do you plan to still be around at that time
0:06:26and something you make now might be around longer than you think I don't think you know
0:06:31when I was starting Instapaper in two thousand A Don't think I thought it would still be around in two thousand
0:06:36and fourteen.
0:06:38I probably hoped it would
0:06:39but I'm sure I'm sure that was not in my mind at the time of I better make decisions now that will last at least seven
0:06:45years or whatever you know six years I can't imagine one thing
0:06:49but so you know you have to if you realize like the ground shifts constantly in this business
0:06:56and if you can find some stable ground to stand on you probably should.
0:07:00And and so that means building mostly your own stuff on.
0:07:06I'm just on very like stable long standing boring things that don't shift around things like you know Linux
0:07:13and your own servers like you know things like old languages like P.H.P.
0:07:17and Perl and Ruby
0:07:18and Python these are all like well established languages like it's a pretty safe bet to write something in Python
0:07:25and host it on Linux and have the database be posed to all these days it's a pretty safe bet.
0:07:31So anyway that's one reason to do it yourself and then the second question is why.
0:07:38Why do a server side based infrastructure at all. And there is it isn't a clear win with that.
0:07:48It's a design decision basically and but like a technical design decision there's a lot of advantages to it.
0:07:54There's a lot of this again I guess to it. I chose to do it because I was OK with the decision.
0:08:00She was a disadvantage of course being you have to write the whole thing first of all
0:08:04and you also have to support servers
0:08:07and there's a whole class of problems that you then have to deal with whenever you support a service
0:08:13or website service and that's even if you run it on something like this
0:08:16or as Or you can you still have to support all of that in some way.
0:08:21Maybe you don't have to support the servers go in and out of a time or these abstract platforms
0:08:26but you have you still to support like oh well they made a change and all the sudden requiring this
0:08:30or all of Azure is down for the next twenty minutes
0:08:33and you can't do anything about it like I'm not saying that you know not to pick on them
0:08:37and that happens to S three all the time that happens if you two all the time like this that happens to be the big
0:08:42cloud services where the entire service has a problem
0:08:45or like a quarter of it will just go down an Amazon data center will just be unreachable for twenty minutes
0:08:51and there's nothing you can do about that but it's your problem. It isn't your fault but it's your problem.
0:08:58And so anyway that's this is a diversion
0:09:01but all of the like any kind of service that you have if you don't go to service you might rely on something like i
0:09:08Cloud to do your thinking. Well that's a service like that it's just not yours.
0:09:13You still have all those problems to deal with you just can't do a thing about them anyway.
0:09:18Doing it so all those problems I'm willing to accept.
0:09:22I've done it a lot before I know what's involved in hosting servers.
0:09:25It only gets easier with time so you know I was fine doing it eight years ago I'm even more fine doing it now.
0:09:32It's even easier and cheaper than ever.
0:09:35So that's all fine
0:09:37and in the advantages of what is was a do is not only things like have a web where you know the obvious stuff
0:09:42but things like fix crawling errors without shipping an app update.
0:09:46Like if there were certain a few that wasn't parsing correctly to these crazy mime types one of them use an X.M.L.
0:09:51Header that left at the M. So it just an X L document and I'm so sick of that.
0:09:55There's all sorts of crazy stupid stuff people do and feeds and I've been crowing.
0:10:00How I guess feeds for almost a year but they're still like once I had a real user but they were there.
0:10:04They added way more feed than what I had and so they're still like new.
0:10:08New problems I've run into
0:10:10and I didn't have to ship an app update fix them so how do you handle the one off the exceptions for lack of a better
0:10:19word I don't mean like you know a code exception what I mean is well the people in A.T.P.
0:10:24They don't know how to make an X Mel file so I need to handle specifically the field at this U.R.L.
0:10:30Differently like you have a series of this if else is a switch statement
0:10:33or do you do something a lot more clever than that I would assume the latter use. You assume wrong.
0:10:40So far I'm doing very little about this. So the X.L.
0:10:44Field I have not fixed yet because that's like I'll get in its face for this problem of what do you do do you special
0:10:51cases do you just have a list of conditions in use do a string in place of a question mark X L version equals one point
0:10:57to say that's the right thing like you know what do you do. So far I haven't quite figured it out yet.
0:11:02What I haven't said most of the problems were people using Crazy wrong content types for the enclosures because one
0:11:08thing I do I don't support video and so I have a I have a white list of these are the content types that I support
0:11:15and I map them all to whether this is generally M P three or M P four format
0:11:20and certain people mark their enclosures as text H.T.M.L. but They're not there like M P three S.
0:11:27but They save content type text him now and they expect it to work and so I had to do crap like that.
0:11:34But for that I just have like you know a list of content types that I accept anyway that just I know aren't videos
0:11:39and stuff like that anyway that doesn't matter. So service I let me do stuff like that.
0:11:44It also lets me do things like keep the app code very simple you know
0:11:48and there's all sorts of benefits for things like having to pull a whole bunch of feeds all the time
0:11:53and then you know use a bunch of data and battery life on your device stuff like that. Fast updates told me that once.
0:12:01For me one of these benefits is like my my apt is I have to know X.M.L.
0:12:05and How to parse feeds the server can just can crawl everything in all of its crappy condition. Normalize it all.
0:12:12Strip out the stuff the app isn't even need
0:12:15and then send the app small normalise Jaison blobs you can decode very easily so it lets me do more work on the server
0:12:21side which means more work in a higher level language that allows you to do things like string processing much more
0:12:30easily and has all sorts of built in normalization.
0:12:34Like I have the whole power of icons and so I can get even character sets
0:12:38and solve those kind of problems server side very easily.
0:12:41So it's it's more of a division of labor it's not that the app wouldn't need all this stuff it's still like you have to
0:12:49put a lot logic somewhere and I've chosen to put much of it on a server where it's easier to update
0:12:54and in some cases easier to write and then I then then the African can focus more on the U.I.
0:13:00and Not have to deal with some crazy new fee that's a one off exception here that totally makes sense to me I just
0:13:06didn't know if you were going into like some crazy design pattern whose name escapes me where basically each of these
0:13:12one offs is perhaps in capsulated in a class and you just run through a series of classes to say this.
0:13:19Does this little one off care about this particular feature and you could go totally crazy down that road
0:13:24or you could have like the if else chain from hell and that's a different way of approaching
0:13:28and I was thinking about this earlier today I was curious how you handle that sort of thing
0:13:33and yes it's the same sort of problem I'm sure you had it Instapaper with really weird Dom parsing trying to find the
0:13:39bits you cared about which that you used taxpayer after new for I went through a few things.
0:13:47The very first text parser was actually an X.L.
0:13:49Document and because my previous job in Pittsburgh we did crazy things that I could sell
0:13:55and I knew it extremely well and for the purpose of like parsing. Through a Dom and outputting something as a result.
0:14:02It's really good it's a specially suited language for that task.
0:14:05Yeah if you said The past is very good it does things that if you just have like a domino face
0:14:10and programming language like there are certain entire classes of problems for which a cell is just way way easier to
0:14:17use and in many cases really fast anyway so yeah it's favor that I did a dumb thing that I did X.
0:14:25Past and I ended up with like a big dumb crawling parts of it like it would like to step through the DOM
0:14:30and tag everything with scores and then it would have X.
0:14:33Path to do things with special rules
0:14:35and so I had a thing where you could like you could say OK for this site this is the X.
0:14:39Path for the title this is the X. Path for the body you strip anything matching this X. Fat stuff like that.
0:14:45Obviously it feeds a lot easier. I do I do run through the show notes that are in pod cast feeds.
0:14:54I run those through a bunch of parsing actually to try to normalize them so to do things like like if there isn't a P.
0:15:00Tag around the text put one around it you know something just have one little quick don't wanna text as their show
0:15:06notes I put a P. Tag wraps that way it renders the same way the things that use P. Tags do.
0:15:10On the client side I also strip out inline style tags and certain like inline javascript things
0:15:16and you know things that just wouldn't mess up or possible security holes on the client side.
0:15:20Strip all that out and normalize stuff or move empty paragraphs or move like the one pixel gifts
0:15:26and then the paragraph around them because it's now empty stuff like that.
0:15:31Anyway we're talking about if you find yourself writing Alsip chains to handles variations in input
0:15:38and you're not writing a parser you're probably doing something wrong. So the solution is always right you're an X.M.L.
0:15:46Parser not ours I am saying like if you're doing a parser and you're switching based on the token
0:15:49or something that's fine
0:15:50but if you put it in this case like it you should never like don't even get to the point where you write in the code if
0:15:56it's a speed do this or that if you do that like especially when you know.
0:16:00So what you're going to be doing is parsing feeds in the world of feeds is large
0:16:05and the number of special cases is large and probably just do a series of associated with each feed.
0:16:13You have a default parser
0:16:14and then you have a series of things that you run in order before you get to the default parser
0:16:19and so then you can reuse like of the text H.T.M.L.
0:16:22Thing is a common problem one of your things is that one of your rules is fix broken mime types
0:16:27and another rule is add the em back an X X amount right and so you just apply those rules.
0:16:32Teach podcast so then that way
0:16:34when seven hundred feeds have the bad MIME type you can use that one rule to fix all of them if one has the missing M.
0:16:40An X.M.L. You just do one moral to that but I'm not out of chain.
0:16:45Oh yeah of course it's like a sick as he was offering that is like if anyone's listening. Don't do that please.
0:16:50I would know I wasn't being serious about that for God's sakes I would definitely do something probably very similar to
0:16:56what you describe John.
0:16:57But but I was curious because Mark tends to kind of do the down and dirty approach occasionally
0:17:03and here he is what you chose especially early on I was thinking of the day thinking about the handling between stuff
0:17:10and like if you have access to I don't know if you do if you can get access to the i Tunes catalogue I suppose you
0:17:16could but like green scraping i Tunes or doing whatever
0:17:19but a good exercise for your feed parser would have been I am going to parse
0:17:25and normalize every single podcast available items
0:17:29and then you know make sure the results conform to something reasonable
0:17:32and then you would have found many many exceptions I just don't know if you have access to that corpus of data we're
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0:21:26Anything else about overcast there a couple other bullets here that I didn't write.
0:21:31Well I think Marco should go through the U.I.
0:21:33Changes he made or is making if you want to talk you talk about them on Twitter anything
0:21:38and I will talk about your reasoning in more than one hundred forty characters weren't so basically I'm trying to make
0:21:46the stuff useful to more people besides just me
0:21:48and people who want to hear about everything overcast so please forgive me as I try to stumble through generalizes to
0:21:53be more likable to possibly the work that you the listener are doing anyway.
0:22:00One of the first in that it was I got a few notes and looking over the data a little bit
0:22:04but I didn't pay enough attention to it.
0:22:06I'm going to few notes from people saying the font is too small
0:22:09and I run everything through an appearance manager class where I set all my default of OK this is the main font name
0:22:15this is the secondary font name
0:22:17and I have all these methods for things like you know the preferred font for first you know because like you know i OS
0:22:23seven has all this dynamic text so it has like things like preferred fun descriptor for style
0:22:28and you can say you know if you I found textile body headline caption one caption too I have an appearance class that
0:22:35it accepts the same arguments look at the system then dynamic text setting to get to you it's a good idea for like you
0:22:41know how big the system thinks this tech should be and then returns to the caller.
0:22:46My fonts are based on the system font settings and based on those styles and so I can do things like specify OK it
0:22:53when you when you fetch the font style caption to always return the small caps font
0:22:58and the default color for that font should be this you know
0:23:01and here's the size forward based on the system size etc And that's why I.
0:23:08That's one reason why overcast so easily support damning text because I wrote a script I was having a mind
0:23:13and everything else anyway.
0:23:16I also had a master fun adjustment
0:23:18and I had set that to negative ones so that any font you know checks through the system.
0:23:22Mechanism and if the app requested a fourteen point five X.
0:23:27Return a thirteen point five because I was testing out various fonts a year ago last summer trying to figure out what
0:23:32my file would be and I was trying to normalize the size between a certain fonts like they kind of look bigger
0:23:37and I'm sure there's official terms for this and you know things like the X.
0:23:42Height stuff like that but I'm not an expert on that kind of stuff but I can tell you certain fonts look better
0:23:48or bigger than others and so it's hard to make direct comparison so I like normalize them all
0:23:53and so for this fine I settle on negative one being its fair comparison size
0:23:57and then design a whole app that way shipped.
0:24:00That way everyone saying hey you know what this is kind of the you know this it's a little bit too small.
0:24:06You know let me fix this so I increase the font size I want pixel by changing that negative one to a zero.
0:24:12Now everything looks better and so that's fine.
0:24:16I realize like it sucks to lose the extra one or two characters on each line a title
0:24:21but I realize that the fans were a little too small before and it does look better now
0:24:27and it is a little more accessible now anyway.
0:24:32Secondarily I replace the skip back
0:24:37and skip forward button icons with the standard apple number in the circle with a little back forward symbol kind of on
0:24:45the tail of the circle. If you listen to any process I have ever.
0:24:50No actually it's not sure if you listen to Apple's podcast looking control center or even even happens
0:24:56when the icons on the button didn't even know. Anyway I don't know either.
0:25:00It does no one no one is that the biggest picas up in the world by far.
0:25:04I think they do that because I recognize the icon somewhere else but I've seen them. Right exactly so anyway.
0:25:12Apple has established a standard icon for Skip back and skip forward by X.
0:25:16Number of seconds that is different from the double triangles slash double triangles with the bar at the end kind of
0:25:23thing that tape players and CD players did
0:25:26and I had been using the double triangle icons on overcast now playing screen
0:25:33and I decided to change that because a lot of people were confused as to what those did a lot of people were writing in
0:25:39asking me to add thirty second skip button to the app even though the I've already had that feature they had never
0:25:46tapped that button I got tweeted that I was doing tech support for gas are able to afford
0:25:53and I'm as I'm doing the reply I'm like you know this came up during the beta too and you said yeah
0:25:57but the arrows look better and then nobody pursued it. They're right and the arrows do look better.
0:26:02You're right they do but I mean it's always the but.
0:26:05Right exactly in the beta you can see five people say hey I can't tell how far back or forward thing is going to go
0:26:13or I forget or I don't know if it is there and you answer those five ten people. Done and done.
0:26:17Why Bransford but luckily
0:26:19when you release of the app to everybody it becomes clear very quickly that there's more than five people you have to
0:26:24explain this to and so I said I had to explain to some people. So that's that's where I draw the line.
0:26:29Yeah I mean I had multiple people tell me that they they had never touched those buttons on the plane tree because they
0:26:34assumed they would like you know fast forward
0:26:37or skip to the next track which no one ever wants them honk like overcast actually has no control.
0:26:43That means skip to the next track or skip the previous track
0:26:46or the horrible annoying behavior of the previous track button in pod cast apps
0:26:53and usually which normally in most pod cast apps including Apple's I think I think this is the case if you push the
0:27:01previous track button it does what C.
0:27:04Players do
0:27:05when you put a previous track button which is before it goes to the previous track on the first press it just goes to
0:27:10beginning of the current track where you lose your position in a pod cast which is horrible
0:27:17and I decided there was no place like control the podcast app
0:27:20and so I guess I have those controls anything like if you have a car
0:27:24but like fast forward fast rewind buttons any kind of integration the headphone click
0:27:28or anything that normally triggers a previous track next track action in overcast does the second step buttons instead.
0:27:36Yeah I noticed today when I was driving around
0:27:38and listening to the tail end of the six hour debug epic with the dude from Apple that was on the I was happy team
0:27:47whose name escapes me when he weighs anything an otter. Yes Thank you.
0:27:51They're all incredible like
0:27:52when I saw that there were six hours of this I thought to myself this is going to be painful
0:27:57and I'm probably not going to listen to any of it. Mike. Yes they're incredible they're definitely worth listening to.
0:28:02Anyway the point is I hit the little button on my steering wheel to either fast forward
0:28:07or rewind if you know which one.
0:28:09And sure enough as I'm doing that I'm like I hope this doesn't I think it does I think and then it did
0:28:15and it was wonderful so I don't know if that was a deliberate move on your part I assume so
0:28:19but it was a great great great call.
0:28:22Yeah like I told you like there there literally is no code in overcast that can respond to a button click with that
0:28:28track or forward track like there is.
0:28:30That's doesn't exist because I hate that behavior that you can make an argument for it to the next track I can see the
0:28:36argument there but the previous track feature I think is awful
0:28:41and it's the next track thing like I was talking to someone about it I'm not sure if I want to use names so I will
0:28:47default to NO and you know he was trying to argue for a next track button
0:28:54and I can see an argument that like like a show comes on and you know you're in your car you're driving
0:29:00or something like that and you don't want you know you can easily play with the controls. The show comes on.
0:29:05It's not what you want to hear at that moment. So you want to get to the next one.
0:29:08I get that but the question is if I add something like that where does it go.
0:29:13I'm not even talking on a screen the screen figure out I'm talking about if you have a headphone clicker
0:29:18or a car control or control center buttons when you only have like the seat back seat forward Spock's
0:29:25or rolls in a control where where is a track where the next track button go
0:29:31and you know because I would want to replace the skip forward thirty seconds but it's a very frequently used.
0:29:37So where does it go. I don't think there's a good answer to that. And so for now I'm not going to do it. But we'll see.
0:29:46All right and then finally priority podcasts again was written in the show Notes document I assume that's John.
0:29:53Yeah last show we're talking about parity podcast and how I thought that I didn't need to be a thing a separate place.
0:30:00With a select party podcast
0:30:01and go to a different place after you've done that to order the part guess that you have to like this parody podcast
0:30:07and I was on the multiparty part has a lot of people don't know what that means as they've been tweeting at me that
0:30:13doesn't mean that all podcasts of the same party it's not same thing is not selecting any basically So I think this is
0:30:18what's confusing. Liking something is a priority podcast merely means that now this pontiff can be ordered.
0:30:23Now you can say this is my number one this is my number two for for upon Kaspar to participate at all in that ordering.
0:30:29You must say it is a priority podcast and I'm making quotes of my fingers.
0:30:35And so I always want all of them to be pirated podcasts because I want to set an order for all of them some people
0:30:41don't want all of them to be part of that is what one two or three to be party party gets
0:30:44and the rest of them too I'm assuming they sort by whatever you pick the order like whichever has the newest heralds
0:30:49episode or whatever.
0:30:51Whereas you know your number one podcast low is be your number one podcast regardless of what new episodes come out in
0:30:56your non-party Pod Yes I want to revisit it because the last show we were just talking about the whole concept
0:31:04and who would want to party non-party turns out a lot of people.
0:31:07Now I just wanna go back to the root of the problem which is why do I have to go to the sever place to elect things to
0:31:12be sure to spin the party Parvez and I was trying to think of a U.I.
0:31:15What i ways we want is to select the podcasts that are part of a playlist
0:31:19and write in that scene around scream rooms like in the podcast be able to sort them out
0:31:24and if I don't sort them they stay in sort of the unsorted bin the bottom never do sort them they thing the sort of to
0:31:30action
0:31:30and there's not really good analogue of that I could think of kind of like the Netflix queue which is kind of like you
0:31:35know and that's like Steve you they're all parody podcasts where there's like a dividing line with the non parody ones.
0:31:41It's difficult to come up with the U.I.
0:31:42For it but I think that would be clearer to people like this concept that we've talked about
0:31:48and the people tweeting back
0:31:49and forth about I'm not sure how many people understand all the nuances of how I mean I certainly didn't
0:31:55and people tweeting the questions are there all the nuances of how priority a non-party partisan.
0:32:00Which other if you just had one screen that showed
0:32:02when you're making a playlist here's all the podcast they can participate in this playlist
0:32:06and some of them are sorted by priority and some of them are not and here they are
0:32:09and you could drag between those two regions in a big list or something I think that would make more sense
0:32:14and would save me a trip into the separate region for electing. Before I go back to the the region for sorting.
0:32:19Yeah I mean that's that's a fair idea.
0:32:22There's a big question mark there are still you know how do you do this as you said I mean it's it's a hard problem to
0:32:28solve. I'm not sure it's a net win.
0:32:32Like if it's the current price the current problem is a combination of if you know what you're doing already.
0:32:37If you already understand these features then you get kind of annoying to have to go to different places to do to do
0:32:44this thing you know to add a new show to a pod cast.
0:32:47Wasn't there making a priority and put it in order to get a priority.
0:32:50I get that
0:32:51but the other problem is you know for people who don't already know this feature this you like it might even add more
0:32:57complexity to it. I think the current division makes it harder to understand what the app is capable of.
0:33:02That's what I'm getting at like the feedback I've gotten Twitter's of evils that they're not. People won't discover.
0:33:09I think they have a show I think the playlist creation stuff is the most important feature of the application to me
0:33:14and I think it is not as discoverable as it could be because people don't understand that process go over here like
0:33:21these things now they're eligible go over go over the other place an order of them and what that all means
0:33:26and the resulting The resulting sort of workflow of like
0:33:30when podcast come in where do they where they fall on my list of things that I'm playing
0:33:34and the fact that they can essentially set up almost any reasonable ordering that they want by a combination of
0:33:38priority non-party partisan playlists that is powerful.
0:33:42It's the question is how do we how do you show people that that's possible without some crazy tutorial
0:33:47or some other thing like that
0:33:48and right now I think a lot of people don't know that they can do that with this after they already have because it's
0:33:54not clear from the naming
0:33:55and from the interface because I can't think of any other analogous interface with this elective.
0:34:00Then you go back to a different region with things you like to do are now able to be manipulated in new way
0:34:05and this other place.
0:34:06Oh yeah I mean and the whole concept of playlist
0:34:09and overcast is is a challenge for me to sell people on because I hear from so many people who all say I've never used
0:34:20playlists before my podcast I don't see the point I don't see why I need to use this and it's hard to.
0:34:25And in some cases people on the beta said that
0:34:28and I told them hey you know what here's how I use them I want to try to see if you like it.
0:34:33And every time the person has come back saying oh my God I love this like now use playlist now I get it you know now
0:34:39there's a reason to use it
0:34:40and it's hard for it's hard for people to realize that that's one of the reasons why as soon as you subscribe to at
0:34:46least two shows I create your first playlist for you as soon as you need to do another shows where it would matter.
0:34:53I create the all episodes playlist for you server side
0:34:57and I could sing to your can you can edit it you can delete it you can do every want
0:34:59but the first time you do that I create that for you to kind of force you to maybe use maybe click on at one time to
0:35:06see hey what is odd So that sounds convenient.
0:35:10And you know I use the word playlist because that's what everyone else uses because that's an i Tunes users
0:35:15and people are people are used to the idea of playlist. I would love if a different word would solve this problem.
0:35:21I just don't think a different word would solve this problem of not a playlist of the problem because people think like
0:35:26why would I want to manually arraign it sounds like what I used to do if i Pod shuffle
0:35:30and the whole the whole idea is like this is a hybrid smart play with regular players
0:35:34and the best of both worlds combined
0:35:36and then within the realm of these playlists How do I define it like I use the all episodes playlists like I have
0:35:43modified it because it's I mean it's very close to what I want minus all the privatization and exclusions
0:35:49and stuff that I do and the manual reordering.
0:35:52It's just a question of once they understand the playlists are good why what can I do with them
0:35:58and they get into that setting screen.
0:36:00Which is probably one of the more intimidating setting screens on the app
0:36:02and then you know understanding how can I get the result that I want because I think like I again I I don't people say
0:36:11they only have one or two or three priority projects if we force them to order all of them when they have trouble
0:36:17or you know are there such as are a second class citizen type of show where they never want to bubble up.
0:36:22I feel like if you told anybody to say rank these all of your pod casts are how much you like them you know they
0:36:28when you get out of the bottom it's weird but I feel like people can do a ranking.
0:36:33I got I don't even know if you need to reasons
0:36:35but again people have disagreed on that I just I just think that if you force everyone to sort everything they would
0:36:40have a very similar experience of the current one with a sort of one or two or three and everything else in a bucket
0:36:44but either way an interface that makes it clear that you can do one or both of those things
0:36:48or makes it clearer that you can do one
0:36:49or both those things would help a lot of people because like you said I think a lot of people think that playlist means
0:36:54more work for them when it's the exact opposite it means less that means almost no work
0:36:57or means that let the thing do the work for you and all you have to do is want to happen it play
0:37:01and it wouldn't go through the park. And exactly the sort of the you want to hear them.
0:37:05I mean it's like I thought of the word like the word filter or something like that like some other kind of word but
0:37:10but again it's overall like I still think playlist is the best word for this feature and
0:37:16and the fact that even even after people know playlist you know that they still often are less is using to they never
0:37:23have used them in a podcast before I think it was the kind of thing where I'm going to have to do my best.
0:37:29You're right that the screen is definitely not intuitive I definitely have something they can improve their.
0:37:34No question there but I also I recognize the inherent complexity in this in this concept and these capabilities
0:37:43and I don't know that there is a way to make it easy enough to do to win over some of these people but I don't know
0:37:50and I'll certainly play with it. Right so I want to tell me about some That's cool.
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0:40:49So we should probably briefly touch on the Sapphire i Phone six screen that may not be sapphire at all it's going to be
0:40:59off the hook. I think it might be. It's possible.
0:41:03So we talked an episode or two ago about a video that somebody that we weren't familiar with whose name I forgot again.
0:41:11That's why there's a link in there. So we give you credit this time. Thank you.
0:41:14It is Marcus Brownlee as they are out of prison. No idea. M.A.R.Q. Yes I'm going with Marcus hopefully I'm right.
0:41:22He put up a second video which was actually I like the first video but I thought the second one was even better
0:41:28and basically he used a little bit of science to explain why the screen is not actually made of pure sapphire
0:41:37and I don't know if you guys have any commentary on that will link in the show. No it's but it's worth checking out.
0:41:43It's it's a few minutes it was really good.
0:41:45Yeah it was really good I think I think a little bit of science is the correct modifier for the mission however.
0:41:53Well so so what he did was basically So in the last video he had he had this this leaked part that was.
0:42:00And i Phone six display cover glass and it was
0:42:05and he showed in the first video all these crazy stress test of a taking a knife to it bending it so it was almost like
0:42:10a huge shape.
0:42:11All this crazy stuff and it would not scratch or crack
0:42:16or shatter it was just it was just perfect even after bending it in the you it still would not shatter and heat
0:42:21and you know the knife testing everything would not scratch
0:42:24and so the problem is as we as I've learned another thing most people of learn if they will look into it at all.
0:42:31Pure sapphire crystal is extremely strong but it is not flexible.
0:42:36That right is a match where you guys have found that that's what my understanding is yes so it was based on the
0:42:43incredible flexibility of this panel is being shown in the video it made it pretty unlikely it was pure Sapphire.
0:42:48There's also some concerns people have brought up who are more familiar with manufacturing
0:42:52and stuff like that that all sapphire panel of that size would also be pretty expensive.
0:42:59And so it makes it less likely not not totally ruled out but it makes it less likely that Apple would use
0:43:04and also fire panel. But so so what this guy did Marcus I hope I'm present name right.
0:43:13But anyway what he did was he he took he took the panel again after reading these you know people saying hey that might
0:43:21not be sapphire and Sapphire has a very high hardness on the night that that diamond hardness scale
0:43:27and so he took sand papers of materials that should be able to scratch or not scratch sapphire
0:43:33and showed it actually scratched up. I feel bad for the i Phone five S. U. T. I Phone five S.
0:43:39That he actually he took sandpaper to a five because the five S.
0:43:43We know has a non sapphire glass cover on the screen but a sapphire home button cover over the Touch ID home button.
0:43:51That's pure sapphire and so he took the same papers to it and showed that you know they would trash the glass
0:43:57but they would not scratch the sapphire Touch ID cover.
0:44:00So and then that same thing would scratch this new leaked part but not quite as much as a scratch the F one five S.
0:44:07So it appears as though the part that he has is not pure sapphire because it scratched more easily than the Touch ID
0:44:16home button but is much more like the much more strongly against resisting scratches.
0:44:24Then the glass currently on the i Phone
0:44:27and for the reason I said he was getting a little bit of science this test a couple reasons.
0:44:31First the sandpaper he was using.
0:44:35I'm not entirely sure that one hundred percent of the particles glued onto that piece of paper are of the material
0:44:40advertised on the sand paper.
0:44:43I have no idea where the quality control is on sandpaper things I know that kids who are allergic to nuts can eat food
0:44:49that is manufactured in the same factories not which makes me believe that there is a large possibility they could be
0:44:54part of other than the ones advertised on those pieces of ham paper so right away it's not a particularly controlled
0:45:00test for hardness. You know scientifically speaking. Second the idea that the Touch I.D.
0:45:07Sensor is somehow purer sapphire or a solid sapphire that is the only material that's made out of.
0:45:13I'm not sure where that's coming from in the way he tested it by kind of digging his finger into the little thing with
0:45:20the sandpaper and trying to scratch it in the other little region. It's not it's better than not testing it at all.
0:45:25But it's not quite the same thing as being able to rub the sandpaper on the giant service of the five S.
0:45:30Because it's kind of down in a little divot and you don't really have enough room to scratch back and forth
0:45:35and it was hard to tell if he was making any dent at all in that thing there.
0:45:39The most clear test obviously was the same piece of sand paper five S. Versus this new thing new thing better.
0:45:44That's what we're missing in the first video because all these impressive things he did with it with it in the first
0:45:48video.
0:45:49The question was always all right fine so how would a fire how would an existing i Phone screen Pharaoh's that same
0:45:56test maybe it exactly is thirty and what he was basically saying when he talk about the harness.
0:46:01Yeah probably regular i Phone screen probably would have fared just as well because he was using soft metals that were
0:46:06going to scratch and even glass right away so this was a much better test.
0:46:11Still him tell us you know what we want to know is is this really the the i Phone six thing in terms of the pureness a
0:46:19real
0:46:19or full sapphire whatever as I said I'm passionate was it seemed obvious that if they're going to make something as big
0:46:24as or is going to have to be a laminate or use some deposition process
0:46:29and if we can't tell which one of the things they did
0:46:32but like Marco said the idea of it being solid one hundred percent sapphire all the way through would mean it would be
0:46:37much too bright all the things obviously non-parental So it's just a question of how thick is that top layer of
0:46:42sapphire or is it just you know atomized and you know heated
0:46:46and then deposited on there through some process like sort of coated with ID is it a separate thin layer of sapphire
0:46:53that's bonded to it in some way are there multiple sapphire lately you know we have no idea what the manufacturing is
0:46:58I'm sure if Apple wants to brag about the show as a cool slide and maybe some robots building something
0:47:02and some layer sandwich things who knows what they'll say but this video was more informative didn't last
0:47:09and I was kind of disappointed to see two we thought about it for a while I mean disappointed to see how easily
0:47:17sandpaper scratches even the new ones because it wasn't him rubbing that hardness like well
0:47:21and only one point of it he said unless you have a high quality same paper your pocket you don't to worry about this
0:47:26well you know one thing that does go in pockets sand you have sand in your pocket and so the idea is like this.
0:47:36This I thought was indestructible I don't have to worry about anything unless there happens to be you know I maybe it's
0:47:41because I'm from Long Island I just expect us fans don't like calling faggots but I still think that
0:47:45and they could I have one in my pocket with Santa can even know what's makes them in any way.
0:47:50I look forward to the day some day of being able to get a caseless i Phone that is basically impervious to scratches in
0:47:58any normal condition. Looks much more sturdy than the five S.
0:48:03By a long shot but I was kind of depressed to see how easily you could scratch even a new one.
0:48:08Step one should be should get an i Phone at all and then you can worry about it scratching as well. Baby steps again.
0:48:14One six looks like it but I could get one it's conceivable In fact I wish I had one right now for Yosemite
0:48:19and after things on this take my wife's five S and upgraded to Iowa State which I've still still not done yet.
0:48:24You want you want to get better right now whether you will get one. I'm a bet no.
0:48:28So yes I think like fifty fifty you want to bet I don't I'm going to bet it went by betting on.
0:48:34Why would first of all why would anyone take a bet with me when I control the outcome.
0:48:38Because you don't control the outcome. Your neurosis does.
0:48:41No no that's not not accurate the amount of money I will bet you for nothing just just betting to be right I will bet
0:48:49that you won't get it. Oh I don't know hands I will say I think I'm going to go on.
0:48:56I'm going to abstain from them and now it's just all right well we'll find out.
0:49:00I mean we also don't know what the product looks like this point you don't even know whether you're getting the big
0:49:04giant one of the regular ones so we have to just wait to see what's what.
0:49:07I'd also go back to the video for Just for a second.
0:49:10I still maintain that we don't actually know whether any Sapphire is involved with this thing
0:49:14and all this could be another type of material you know so maybe something new from Corning you know the maker of
0:49:20Gorilla Glass Maybe it's like you don't know this well so they could have some sort of mass spectrometer
0:49:25or something to to actually tell you what elements are on the same leg.
0:49:28If you know I want to go for Dr growing on this like I have the technology we can actually find out what exactly what
0:49:35the screen is made out of if we cared
0:49:36but you know it's just people doing bending stuff on You Tube The only thing that we know that people are basing this
0:49:45on is that Apple has built this giant sapphire plant in Arizona right
0:49:47or vested in it whatever they've done they're involved in a big sapphire plant
0:49:51but that might not be for this that might be for more Touch ID sensors they might be for a potential I watch cover
0:49:58or something like that that could be first.
0:50:00Many other things besides the i Phone cover glass
0:50:04and so I really don't think that we can assume yet I don't think there's enough information to assume that Sapphire is
0:50:10being involved at the screen and all that is it is a bit early.
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0:52:07So last week when Marco was so selfish about the show
0:52:11and refused to move along from overcast there was some actually legitimate news about Apple and I.B.M.
0:52:19and We didn't get a chance to talk about that last week we should probably talk about it now
0:52:23and so what happened was Apple and I.B.M. Announced a partnership to I guess. So I.B.M.
0:52:29Is going to kind of sell in push Apple stuff in the enterprise is that what's a better summary of this.
0:52:38You got it all right. So so a lot of people were scratching their heads on this one.
0:52:45And for me it was particularly interesting because my dad just retired from I.B.M.
0:52:50After a long long time just a few weeks ago.
0:52:53And unfortunately even after pushing he either didn't have any insider information he could share
0:53:01or refused to if he did have it. But this is certainly an interesting partnership and interesting.
0:53:08I don't require hundreds of a couple of companies that have been kind of flirting with each other on
0:53:14and off for forever I don't know. John what did you think about this.
0:53:19So in past shows and past podcasts I talk a lot about Enterprise entanglements
0:53:25and how you know you're honest I guess are a defined enterprise software
0:53:28or software where the person by who buys it is not the person who uses it.
0:53:31So the people make are motivated to satisfy the buyer of the new user and that's why the software is crappy
0:53:38and enterprise in tandem is about a company starts deriving a lot of its profits or revenues
0:53:42or both from serving the enterprise
0:53:44and then it becomes beholden to the small number of people who determine whether software is satisfactory to the
0:53:49and private enterprise rather than the large number of consumers who might buy a product you know.
0:53:53So it is worse to be beholden to a small number of companies and to a small number of power people in those companies.
0:54:00If your products worse and then you get tied to them like you know it's a golden handcuffs.
0:54:04That's where you get most your money on this happened to Microsoft lot.
0:54:07Some companies immediately just go completely off the deep end on this like S.A.P.'s Oracle that's all they do is they
0:54:12you know that they don't sign a contract for less than five figures and you know you want them to be six seven
0:54:18or eight figures most of the time and they have a huge sales force that goes out there to sell these contracts
0:54:24and the software they make is terrible and everyone hates it but they say it like that's the worst case scenario.
0:54:29So Apple's at the farther end of the spectrum in Iran to do the stupid enterprises they don't want to deal with
0:54:34companies like that they don't want their software is to get worse that they don't want their their agenda
0:54:38or their product the features that they need to do to be dictated to a small number of people anywhere except for
0:54:43inside the company obviously And so for all this time where we talk about Apple do this thing with the i Pods
0:54:49and the i Phones
0:54:50and they're pressing computers all this time it's like wow Apple doesn't want to get into that business for you so
0:54:54Exchange servers and there was a brief Dowling's with the X.
0:54:56Serve and was ten server that as mail servers and stuff like that but their heart was never
0:55:01and they were never willing to do enterprises want they want service contracts that example have value added resellers
0:55:06they've had that as well
0:55:07but then they have their own official channels they have their business layers on like you could tell that Apple's is
0:55:12never willing to do what it takes to serve the enterprise and talk to anybody does I.T.
0:55:18In a big companies like my you know my customers my users essentially the employees of the company want Apple hardware
0:55:25but it's such a pain in the ass to support and Apple's tools aren't that great
0:55:28and getting anything from Apple the pain and depending on what reseller you go through he goes directly you know
0:55:34and Apple does what it has to do if the Enterprise develops doesn't like highways three
0:55:37or whatever it was to integrate with Exchange servers and to be better with with the Enterprise
0:55:42and they have Enterprise after plan for their app stores like they do it's not a do nothing it's not like they're
0:55:49willfully hostile to it
0:55:51but in general their reputation in the enterprise is not good that other companies do more for the enterprise than
0:55:56Apple and it's always been a thing well tough luck.
0:56:00Didn't doesn't want its company to be reshaped by contact with the enterprise because contact direct contact with the
0:56:06Enterprise will reshape the company and so we're just kind of of this impasse.
0:56:10Apple doesn't want take this business Microsoft currently has the business
0:56:14but it's not an interesting business to be in like nobody even Google's kind like half hearted Well there's Google Apps
0:56:19for business.
0:56:20You could use that instead of office and exchange
0:56:22and like nobody wants that business is a crappy business like you know except Oracle and I say be in sales force
0:56:27and Microsoft and Apple isn't going to take it
0:56:30and so we've been languishing in this place this weird place where nobody wants blackberries anymore everyone hates
0:56:35Exchange and Share Point
0:56:37but that's what we all use because no one is saying oh I want to take that business from Microsoft I want to pervert my
0:56:42company to the needs of enterprise I.T.
0:56:44It's just it's poisonous if you like if you like companies like Apple and don't like companies like Oracle.
0:56:52As every right thinking person should.
0:56:54So this deal is basically Apple finally the important thing here is Apple is my only thing I will take that business
0:57:03like
0:57:03but we don't want to touch it directly like it's now it's too big it's like you know there's nothing we should just let
0:57:12Microsoft have this business by default it shouldn't just go to Oracle and I.B.M.
0:57:16and Say why did they just get it by default.
0:57:18It's a big business the people who work at these companies want to use our products.
0:57:24We're not willing to do what it takes directly to to change our company to be an enterprise company.
0:57:29But now we are saying we're raising your hand saying all right we're going to go after that business.
0:57:35So no longer do all the companies get it by default because Apple is just no good at this and they've kept I.B.M.
0:57:41At their lucky partner to say we're not going to touch directly you touch directly
0:57:46but we're going to sic you on them
0:57:47and say Go get them go make every single company you know make them happy to use our products right. You sell them.
0:57:55You have the sales force out there doing the last thing you do all those icky enterprise deals they can play.
0:58:00Do you not us. Right.
0:58:01You make the special and you know applications so they can integrate i Pads with their business
0:58:06and do all this other stuff or whatever. We don't want to do that and so when that when the customers complained I.B.M.
0:58:11That you know sort of the relationship between ita inventor
0:58:14but I feel like well you know we don't control apple does that their O.S.'s like I will tell them we'll tell them you
0:58:19don't like it when they upgrade too fast
0:58:21and screw over yours will tell them that you want them to keep making the i Pad two forever like whatever you know
0:58:25but like well what can we do they're not you know it's not us they're Apple right. And so I.B.M.
0:58:30Is the go between there
0:58:31and I've you know of course gets you know gets the money off the top of that they get more business because now they
0:58:36are I think is that exclusive relationship there.
0:58:38They're the exclusive gateway into the enterprise for all of Apple's stuff.
0:58:43I'm not quite sure how this deal works in terms of the existing value added resellers of Apple stuff
0:58:49and existing in a retail chain in his relationship or ever
0:58:52but theoretically at the time of like the press release announcing it looks very much like Apple is now finally saying
0:59:00that it wants in on the enterprise business in the way it is found to do it without ruining its own you know running
0:59:06the company Re everything's good about the company is having a go between do all the dirty work for them or you.
0:59:11You do realize that there is a Apple sales force directly targeting enterprise right now you know yeah you can I mean
0:59:19it's better than it was before like they will sell you know they'll build your volume just announce it like this the
0:59:23whole enterprise enterprise outscored think they'll do the service you know to bring your stuff into that used to be
0:59:27the bring your stuff to the Apple store to give X.
0:59:29Now they have you know their But the more you get into business like they're sort of dipping your toe in all these
0:59:35things and going Well Apple has that level kind of has that but they're not really good.
0:59:39They're not really engaged in in the way these other companies are
0:59:42and so your choices were become engaged in it make this a big part of your business get serious about the enterprise
0:59:49or don't do that have someone else do that for you and can and that sort of lets Apple continue to be Apple
0:59:55and be sort of wild and fancy free and run with flowers and tear through the fields. So well I don't know.
1:00:01I V M S to be they're signing these contracts and doing the support stuff
1:00:06and writing the custom applications for the big companies and I guess what I've been doing anyway right. So I.B.M.
1:00:11Is more than happy to take this business.
1:00:14If it works it is a very clever solution to get some of that money that has been going to these companies with quote
1:00:21unquote worse products for just decades
1:00:24and without you know without it changing what Apple is without changing all the good things that are good about Apple
1:00:31for consumers and stuff so I don't know if that can work it just does adding a buffer make it make it OK
1:00:36and now a work out
1:00:38or is there more to it that is it that Apple will always be defeated by the companies that are actually willing to do
1:00:44to do what enterprises want directly and maybe I.B.M.
1:00:48Will not be able to convince people
1:00:49or not be able to do enough on its own to make Apple more palatable to the enterprise like the Pastor Hagee was what
1:00:55does make your stuff so good that ID can be taught to choke down whatever we do will do a little bit to support them.
1:01:00But we're never going to do with it other companies do.
1:01:02What I don't understand is I don't see how this can really make a big difference until the support strategy changes
1:01:12pretty dramatically.
1:01:13And I'm looking at the press release and it says and I'm quoting mobile service
1:01:17and support Apple Care for enterprise will provide I.T.
1:01:19Departments
1:01:19and end users with twenty four seven assistance from Apple's award winning customer support group with onsite service
1:01:25livered by I.B.M.
1:01:26and I can tell you that I work in pretty small firms
1:01:29and most of the reason that I've ever heard for us to buy Dells which all the companies I've ever worked for almost
1:01:37exclusively generally favor Dells over anything else
1:01:40and the reason was the primary reason was either that they were very cheap
1:01:45or if something breaks the next business day there is a Dell repair service person operative whatever hinting office
1:01:55replacing what's broken or just handing us a new computer. And without that. End of just immediate service.
1:02:02I don't know if this will ever really take off. Well as nobody has read that I.B.M. Source to provide I.B.M.
1:02:08Provides onsite service because like that's exactly the type of thing that Apple as a company is not equipped to do to
1:02:13provide that for all of the enterprise there is not built that way. But I.B.M. Is built that way.
1:02:17They'll send a guy that's what our human has is guys to send right and that's the that's what I'm kind of asking
1:02:24and we don't know the answer was a semi rhetorical question
1:02:26but until this apple care for Enterprise gets more concretely defined I don't know if I really see this making a big
1:02:34difference unless it really is doing all the things that these Dell you know Tiger Team people come in and do.
1:02:42But yeah I mean again we're at the press release stage so we have nothing concrete to go on here
1:02:47but at the press release that it's like I.B.M. Is not unfamiliar with doing all the things you said the Dell did.
1:02:53Like that idea is exactly that kind of company for this type of stuff as just I would have to assume the whole point is
1:03:02I.B.M.
1:03:02Is going to do all those things that all the things that Apple either wouldn't do or wouldn't do as enthusiastically
1:03:07or wouldn't give the same guarantees about an I.B.M.
1:03:10Will make the you know the contract that you signed and specify exactly what this stuff is
1:03:15and let you pay through the nose so that you can get a laptop repaired
1:03:19or replaced with one business days notice if that's part of your service contract
1:03:23or whatever like all these enterprise things that I mean because it takes so much to do that so much hand-holding so
1:03:27much salesmanship so most relationship dealing with a relationship with these big companies.
1:03:33That's just not Apple's forte that's not what the company is built around
1:03:36and having some else do it for you goes a long way towards making it possible you still left with the problem of OK
1:03:42well what about service and support an O. S.
1:03:45Upgrades and compatibility
1:03:46and all of the stuff that Apple general paternally apps to busy running for we can't we can't look back I don't care
1:03:51what we're breaking we're just running forward as fast as we can because that's how we win the race in the consumer
1:03:55space and ultimately where we were and everything. So this is probably not going to slow our.
1:04:00All down from that race but at least only someone left holding the bag and it's I.B.M.
1:04:04Having to apologize rabble explain things and I.B.M.
1:04:06Perhaps to bend over backwards and make things better for the people who are having problems.
1:04:11All right well scum Marco you don't have any thoughts about the enterprise. Nope not at all.
1:04:19I think I think going to be a good time for me to give everyone a break for me. Fair enough. Anything else going on.
1:04:27We don't. There is a real time follow up on sand. Oh OK thanks a lot to earth response. I mean cotton Biro back please.
1:04:35And Squarespace. And we will see you next week. Now this show is over. It was accidental accidental.
1:04:52John thank you for sitting on the learn from this sister that can live with a veil have all been saying one of the last
1:05:46throes of my have my own sense Tory that they had told before this.
1:05:51When I brought my aluminum powerboat key for to an Apple store to the Genius Bar and they guy slit it like two inches.
1:06:00Across the Genius Bar to himself and there was one grain of sand underneath that laptop
1:06:05and went just some was talking about sand is mostly made of softer materials like it doesn't take much.
1:06:11It takes one grain of sand in the wrong place right in the wrong way to make a little scratch nobody cares about
1:06:18but that the worst thing that can happen like my Abah Thunderball display I've been back to the Apple store three times
1:06:24to fix various problems and is now fully functional but those three trips to
1:06:28and from the Apple Store have the scars on it and the people that have left
1:06:32or are super careful compared to people like Best Buy right.
1:06:37But they're not as careful as I would be careful
1:06:41and even I would accidentally damage it eventually as just you know big heavy things being manipulated.
1:06:49Aluminum is not as hard as Sapphire let's just say.
1:06:53Yeah I think scratch it's tough
1:06:55and a scratch like that no one will take you seriously if you explain that it has a few as well you can barely see it
1:07:02but I mean I maybe made Maggie's friends and do you care the laptops get stretched.
1:07:09Oh absolutely I used to care a lot more I mean like my first mac was a parable for aluminum
1:07:15and I sold it after about three years of using it
1:07:20and it looked brand new like if it didn't have the keyboard marks on the screen.
1:07:24Like so many of them did because I read early on that if you put it like in a back pack facing out vs facing in then it
1:07:31wouldn't get the marks of the screen wasn't because squeezed in that way
1:07:34and in the even like I had I didn't have a dedicated laptop bag I just had like a backpack that was just like a general
1:07:42purpose backpack
1:07:43and so I kind of fashioned this big felt pocket that I like in sort of this be like still sleeve into one of the
1:07:49pockets and made that a dedicated laptop pocket and only ever had this big thick black felt it with it
1:07:55and so this thing was pristine it was per And even when I was using it.
1:08:00It was usually tended to keyboard mouse or monitor so the keyboard wasn't even worn away
1:08:04or all greased up like it looked brand new when I sold it.
1:08:08Since then though I've I've only used laptops for like travel
1:08:12and stuff which is happening more now as I'm you know an adult
1:08:16and keep doing family stuff so now my machines don't stay that pristine and it kind of makes me upset.
1:08:23They're still very good. I would say they are still far away.
1:08:27Like you know the top one percent tile of condition for for age
1:08:31but that doesn't mean much these days because people I see something ridiculous like that it's not like that's what's
1:08:37worth about like a thing I don't monitor it's supposed to just be sitting on a desk in theory it comes to your house
1:08:42you unpack it it's perfect at that point you hope you put it on your desk
1:08:45and then never touch it again it's a monitor maybe you touch it to adjust the angle every once in a while
1:08:49but in general it's like a desktop monitor it's not going anywhere
1:08:53and so to have that that big heavy thing makes three trips to
1:08:56and from the back of an Apple store it's inevitably going to come out with little nicks
1:09:00and scratches that you won't see.
1:09:01No no one will see them no no they're there you just look at the picture on the screen right
1:09:04but I know that I know where they are to just you just try to forget it could be worse it could be like the bad old
1:09:11days of the apple twenty to twenty two inch Cinema Display with a big clear two little feet and dead pixels
1:09:17and then you know that's just like yeah I still remember that tickles
1:09:20or I could point to them right now on my screen at one point it's also it's not great to live with the current Mac.
1:09:28The IMAX I think assume its less of the same thing where the construction is such that like with yours they were
1:09:34probably working on like the logic board that has like little peripherals and stuff plugged into it.
1:09:40They weren't like working on the panel but like if you're working on my mac the way you work
1:09:44and I could you take the screen off like you suck the glass off of the suction cups
1:09:49and then you like you lift the whole screen out to get to the inside.
1:09:53That's how you get into these things and so the chances of you putting that screen back exactly right.
1:10:00Now when a scratch but leaving no dust anywhere and like no dust getting between the layers
1:10:04and getting in there like there's the chances of that goal and purposely are pretty remote.
1:10:10I think Apple stores have special rigs just solely for that purpose to vacuum out blow out any dust because I've been
1:10:16again three trips
1:10:17and every single time those glasses come off every single time they've separated the glass from the like you have to
1:10:21get at the inside they weren't touching that part
1:10:24but you know there could have been dust every single time every time I got it back I would dread looking it in things
1:10:30and be the dust out of there.
1:10:32They have not done that but the little nicks on the aluminum thing like I mean these are really tiny.
1:10:37That again people think you're crazy for saying you even noticed
1:10:40but you know if you're if you're the type of person you have to put it on your mind then pictures like what you can do
1:10:45out there's nothing you can do about it you're not going to complain
1:10:47and say I want to new thing because you put his microscopic neck on it right.
1:10:51It kind of reminds me of the worst experience I have like this is when I was a kid
1:10:56and I had my mac SE thirty which was my favorite mac ever but
1:11:00when I first got it the power supply had a whine like a high pitched whine.
1:11:05You know I don't know if it was a transformer or whatever it was that was causing the noise.
1:11:11But I remember I was coming off a plus at that point which has no fans in it as a great machine.
1:11:19One twenty five twelve an A plus didn't have fans in them the SE thirty five pretty sure had a fan
1:11:26but also that the power supply one was the dominant noise and it had a fan I have to look it up anyway
1:11:32and it was loud enough that I complained about it
1:11:35and we brought it back to not an Apple store because they didn't exist to our Apple retail store
1:11:40and said hey this thing makes a high pitch why noise and everyone at the App Store claimed they could not hear it
1:11:47and the thing is I believe them because when you get older you lose like the high frequencies.
1:11:51You're right you know and so they probably couldn't hear it
1:11:53but here I am like whining to my parents in that people like this think Trust me I know you can hear.
1:12:00But I can because I'm twelve years old and had two really annoying
1:12:04and I just could you just replace the power supply
1:12:07and just they never did anything about it we took a different place which is also taking a different Apple store.
1:12:13They did replace the power supply and it was silent and I was happy.
1:12:17But for awhile I was like as I was being gaslighted like I was going insane like no one else can hear this noise
1:12:22but you can hear it in my computer's on it was it was a mix of no one else can even see you insist that they are there
1:12:27and further you insist this is the problem.
1:12:30Well that's one of the benefits of getting used car because you know the B.M.W.
1:12:34I bought used and it had a couple of very very very minor.
1:12:39Next for lack of a better word
1:12:41and that has some amount of freedom associated with it because the car's already been making air quotes tainted
1:12:49and so if something appears it's it well OK it's already been nicked here and Nick they are
1:12:56and it's not the end of the earth and that's actually been to some degree a little bit
1:13:02and a little bit of a nicer experience now with that said I still parked in the furthest most corner of the parking lot
1:13:07like a jerk but at least I do it in only one spot away until you have kids
1:13:11and you get chocolate ground into your seats like I just found when I clean my car this weekend.
1:13:16I got new car like I was also kind of putting off getting a new car until after the kids were out of like big car
1:13:23backseat destroying car seats right.
1:13:26They don't like the little booster seats that you know they just raise you up to the left
1:13:31but he called the shoulder harness doesn't go across your neck right.
1:13:33And those don't strap in and it's like Oh this should be no problem here but food
1:13:38and other crap finds its way between the little booster and your actual seat
1:13:42and they get the ground into the fabric some They're trying to get that stuff out this weekend
1:13:47and then of course then put in their muddy dirty feet all over the back of your of the front seat of your car kids
1:13:52could destroy cars is no way around it so if you have that to look forward to yeah I'm looking forward to it.
1:13:58I mean the good news is I mean Mikey.
1:14:00It is like two point two five ish right now
1:14:03and you know he still was old enough to destroy the car he can't reach the back of your seat is not kicking you in the
1:14:09back while you're driving it right he still real he still rear facing
1:14:12but he could be getting to the point where he's kicking the seat back not your seat back together while he's able to do
1:14:18that but we don't notice and I have this like cover over it so you know it's no big deal.
1:14:22Yeah the covers those covers are expensive and I almost got them several times sort of like fifteen bucks.
1:14:29Well like the big fancy ones like you buy I like the big branded ones like the B.M.W.
1:14:33Branded
1:14:33or the hundred branded for what you don't get those little full back seat cover well there goes my brother has one like
1:14:38they the full they're fitted to your car they're super thick
1:14:42but I'm just always worried about something it caught between the cover and the seat
1:14:45and then that's just like you know recipe for disaster goes to John things are rubbing it again grinding it into the
1:14:51actual fabric the bra problem yeah.
1:14:55Without a tan lines all you people get talents not to to bring out how much you get into the cabin of the car
1:15:02and titles sorting my vote.
1:15:05It's not optional it's mandatory but that's fine because you know a problem I sort of anyway.
1:15:09Well see I actually like to have both like I was able to sort by most recent so I can troll through the most recent
1:15:15ones. Yeah and vote them up as like as the show goes on otherwise.
1:15:20Now we have a rich get richer problem I can make a like so hard to tensioner Chrome extension that just throws the J.
1:15:26Crew data tables at this table and gives some sort of how he's done.
1:15:31If one library sort of all you know worst like the arrows though I thought you might like the arrows of that I read
1:15:41this on was I going to put them in a circle around to wreck something from you know your name for a skinny little
1:15:47button my personal opinion was that what the carry on the thing I'd say it's like moving to magic empathy.
1:15:56I'm going to I'm going to make these damn errors like seventy two.
1:16:00New points why he's going to have the clicker is not bad the cougar is not the with of the Arrow it's a little bit
1:16:05wider but if you if you highlighted the quick area when the little cursor went over anyway
1:16:10and there was a line up with the numbers
1:16:12or less lines that of Caroline So like the one in thirteen is right above the age an eight whereas the age of eighty
1:16:19three only from for the complaint about I posted in the chat room in the beginning when I first loaded the page
1:16:25and there was no titles on it the the headings votes title author time said it was like titles
1:16:31but I don't often time like it was a sentence because they were all scores together I think
1:16:36and then there was no man with them anyway. U.I. Is hard. I'm fine.
1:16:40Must have some sort of client side issue because occasionally the two tables kind of decide to mate with each.
1:16:46Right now I have I have links in the titles table that kind of I don't know why they keep happening.
1:16:51I want to play with that.
1:16:52If you refresh the page it'll straighten itself out
1:16:55but I will definitely work on a fatal crash very first of all set up a bit. Stop it.
1:17:02You had your moment you're done that was kind of funny about it like that only with a good title.
1:17:07If you do that when you can use a semicolon of the title I don't like silicone.
1:17:13Well you can use a comma comma splices is Hauser a moving around of the sort with misheard. IOW what do you want.
1:17:21You only get to pick one. Now I know you have both you can have sorting and you just have manual refresh.
1:17:27That's really what these Web sockets.
1:17:29Now it's no longer a feel you've eliminated the whole point music website it's in the first place so I judge they're
1:17:37accused of setting out a preference that's what everyone tells me to do.
1:17:41Just had a setting for everything in the a pause button to pause a bit and then resume them later.
1:17:46You gotta figure out which of those things you want. I like it's always the but that is pretty good.
1:17:52Actually I do like that one I don't remember that was that I thought you said you did say it
1:17:58but I remember a lot of what I say.
1:18:01So we do the chat room records of four of them after me for my e-mail account for the listeners paying attention to
1:18:11what I say in different pod casts is currently one hundred twenty three unread
1:18:15but I answered about two hundred of them today.
1:18:17So I had crossed two thousand there's a couple of people on Twitter really tracking the order in which every quarter
1:18:22the various products as I've been on as I keep saying like oh I have three hundred messages in the know I have not
1:18:27heard of a message isn't the number keeps going up that time over him you're never answering answering any of them I
1:18:34guess.
1:18:35I mean the fact is they're coming in fast
1:18:36and I mean from them like my my my strategy was rather then spend like three days just answering email.
1:18:46I would instead read many of them read all Twitter and fix as many problems I possibly could by shipping update.
1:18:55Like so actually writing the update testing the update and shipping the update to Apple
1:18:59and then start tackling the email inbox so I can then tell people rather than I'm working on this.
1:19:04I can actually tell people I fix this you know and actually give them useful news and update isn't out yet
1:19:11but I can only say I fix this in the update that submitted to Apple
1:19:14and should be out soon like some people I meet will say that so I have a whole bunch of tech spender shortcuts
1:19:20and I'm going to the email now and some people get text pandered some people get a custom thing.
1:19:26Support person and yeah I know I'm I'm bring on support person but I wanted to get through the initial batch myself.
1:19:34I don't do it that time terms learning is keep but I am to give over the hands.
1:19:40Ever ever I don't want to while you hit send. Didn't the animals free ride it.
1:19:50How did you know you have you been watching a halt
1:19:53and catch fire whatever the hell that thing is called You know you don't talk about I know I was talking about that
1:19:58show looked terrible to me. It's amazing.
1:20:00I've no I've never I've not seen a single frame of it in any capacity and I've heard it's great.
1:20:05I've seen all the ads and I was like I know the show is about I know a lot of this history from reading it in books
1:20:11and they'll make it sound like it's like oh well the actual story is not enough
1:20:16and they're probably right Dexter isn't enough unless you're a nerd.
1:20:18So we can jazz it up
1:20:20and it's like no that's not that is not what computer work is like that's not what engineering is like.
1:20:24That's not what's exciting about it. Parable what isn't the story of Compaq a clean room cloning the I.B.M. P.C.
1:20:33Oh yeah there's T.V. Show movie. Yeah it's like a series or mini series.
1:20:38It's supposed to be like in the Mad Men vein of like oh it's a period piece is right in the reverse engineering thing
1:20:43that I mean it was dramatic and technically interesting it changed the industry
1:20:47but not in a way that anyone that regular people would be interested in so they have to make it all exciting
1:20:53and the nerds are super good looking and exciting and it's dramatic
1:20:56and everything happening in the dark instead of just like these pudgy you know pale losers with acne poring over
1:21:03technical manuals and programming because they don't want to see that
1:21:06but that's how it is actually done I don't want another sausage is actually made. Look I'm Val is actually pretty good.
1:21:12Now it is not. I finally want to I really enjoyed it.
1:21:15It is not well first of all we can all agree that is not representative of anything related to technology second.
1:21:20No
1:21:20but it's I think it's funny in a Mike Judge kind of way the way you make fun of Silicon Valley I think is really good
1:21:28and smart.
1:21:29Yeah but it's making fun of it's making fun of a caricature of Silicon Valley doesn't exist
1:21:33when there's plenty of legitimate things you can make fun of from the real Silicon Valley
1:21:37and that's what I like I think Beavis
1:21:38and Butthead was funny I think King of the hill is failure to pick two more Mike Judge properties this is probably
1:21:44funny but he obviously was more incisive.
1:21:48I would say this is like between Idiocracy
1:21:51and like a like a king of the hill in it it is it is a social commentary on this part of our culture. No question.
1:22:00And a pretty good one at that yes it is exaggerated and ridiculous but it is a pretty good social commentary
1:22:05and it's also pretty funny I don't know if the total exclusion of human females is supposed to be a commentary
1:22:11or just accidental. I believe that's intentional.
1:22:15It's hard to top of the case when it is there on a woman for two seconds
1:22:18but I'm pretty sure that's intentional as a commentary.
1:22:21That's I think it's pretty clear I'm just disappointed because you couldn't show there was a lot farther
1:22:27and a lot funnier than actually actually made fun of the way things really are because like they started with a
1:22:32character
1:22:33and they say in this character you're funny let's make fun of the caricature is like well yeah it's like a straw man
1:22:38you're making something.
1:22:39Nothing is ridiculous ever existed so of course easy to make fun of something that ridiculous the reality has plenty of
1:22:43things that are ridiculous about it as well but I guess and nuanced ways that people wouldn't understand
1:22:48or care about I don't know
1:22:51or you know like you probably can't base a lot of the stuff on real on real people for various legal reasons
1:22:57and I also think that my judge doesn't really know anything about computers which is a problem.
1:23:02Like he knows a lot about.
1:23:03He's real programmer I know
1:23:05but like it's not he's not this is not his thing is he's been a media person for ages he knows a lot about being a jerk
1:23:12you know teenage boys abuse and but it was really knows a lot about people in Texas. He's from Texas.
1:23:19Right so that worked out and he may work as a pro for a little while
1:23:22but adult lives essentially been said been making television programs so I think he does not like office spaces is
1:23:28actually based a lot on himself
1:23:30and the job the use of office space was I mean I think all the spaces good it didn't go too far over the top like I
1:23:36lumbered with a little bit over the top
1:23:38but everything else about it just like the office environment like it was a male didn't you know.
1:23:42So the other the holographic tube in the crazy headquarters they really have that is more over the top a space with an
1:23:47actual cubicle office building right.
1:23:49And there's enough ridiculous about an actual cubicle office building it here out of you don't need to make it more
1:23:54impressive than it actually is. Should be an incomparable Toba sort of like that.
1:24:00You could be the lone voice of dissent.
1:24:02I was some people so I think this is now still watching and I'm letting them pile twenty vocational washing up
1:24:07and it's only eight episodes in my twenty minute walk.
1:24:10I never like I want are never on so I'm not engaged in the story so to speak so if I just want a couple of gags here
1:24:15and then some funny gags.
1:24:18It's just like my judges other shows where it's not the best show in the world but it's a good show and it's funny.
1:24:23Like if you if you if you take it you know take everything with a grain of salt
1:24:27and if you look at it not as something that's trying to be accurate
1:24:30but some it's trying to be funny that's difficult for me with tech shows like that I like hoping catch fire again a
1:24:37minute.
1:24:37It's also getting better we used to like if I knew something about like the advertising business maybe Mad Men would
1:24:42bother me a lot more than it does right
1:24:44but I don't so that bother me is my whatever whatever liberties are taking with the advertising that is I'm willing to
1:24:49accept whereas any time you touch a topic that anytime you touch tech Basically it's like there's not a good history
1:24:54there in terms of interesting
1:24:56or accurate isn't a chanson especially like the older I question the I do find tech industry
1:25:01and I think a show that did tech write would be interesting but only to me obviously.
1:25:07If I was what should you be watching if this one is funnier than Silicon Valley and shorter and more interesting
1:25:16and doesn't involve technology.
1:25:17Sure than a twenty minute episodes
1:25:20and I guess of the same length so I just I think with reviewing to get through an episode of it I think the present
1:25:26hours and Showtime or H.B.O. All right but the kid so I'll talk to Thursday.
1:25:33Yeah editing schedule tomorrow I am going to the lake. Oh now they're tough.
1:25:41Your constant work schedule
1:25:42and I don't it's like there's like thirty times Instagram from like yeah actually two I'm going to leave because I have
1:25:48my back up royally and our friend up there is a massage therapist
1:25:52and is going to help me fix it all I had to rough looking like my schedule. Yeah I feel I'm going to.
1:26:00Like they got a massage tomorrow you got to do you know the lake is actually coming to me
1:26:05and I'm going to have a corn dog I'm taking out a corn dog.
1:26:10I will never look more like an Ohio boy than I do your dirt Beecham from your mud like a.
1:26:28Volatile Instagram now I don't think you can think of it in Instagram but it's a nicer window into people's lives.
1:26:39Yeah that was awesome.
1:26:41Wow We're all just saying you know I just bitter and jealous people that still talk about it later
1:26:49but up well down to it to me I read ourselves and admit that you were bitter jealous and older every day.
1:26:58Yeah but I have the secret glee of knowing what you're in for the council.