The Accidental Tech Podcast

75: You Had Your Moment

 

  So how does the Six Flags the other day. Hot was it water or not water. [TS]

  I guess not water we went to the water park [TS]

  but I didn't go in the water pry was the pack mule for the man I was carrying carrying a backpack with everyone's like [TS]

  you know I'd bring food and the like you know water bottles that we sold in the park [TS]

  and all the possible bathing suits [TS]

  and towels for the lawyer things in it which is fine I was willing to be the pack mule [TS]

  but like I'm too old to be spend [TS]

  and seven hours just walking around on hot black asphalt it wasn't like it was in the ninety's what it was like super [TS]

  hot or super human [TS]

  but it doesn't matter is wears you down like I was I was hunting for shade I was like there's a dumpster that's the [TS]

  shade I'm kind of interesting. [TS]

  Crouch in the shade while my kids wait on this you know to our landing on a roller coaster. Now you would. [TS]

  Oh no you're not a religious person to the emotions like never mind. [TS]

  Now Brokaw says I'm not a teacup person teacups of the worst drug work because that is repeated motion the puke your [TS]

  brains out right wrong cause over ninety seconds doesn't matter what you can do to you ninety seconds you're fine. [TS]

  So the surer you do you like roller coasters. [TS]

  I don't like them in general because I feel like I've gone [TS]

  and I've experienced everything there is to experience on a roller coaster from a thrill perspective [TS]

  and how the risk reward ratio is way down and on his ride run by teenager is that where the risk of death someone is [TS]

  and what is my reward. [TS]

  Experience that I've already had before like it's not anything new that is the most Johnny answer I'm ever heard I feel [TS]

  he needs the show somehow I don't like my family going on a visit here just when you think they're not well maintained. [TS]

  Six Flags is not Disney and you know actors happen all the time it's like there's a tiny risk [TS]

  but then for the rewards like why am I doing this like it's not you know. [TS]

  So anyway my kids go on them they can have all the experience that you have I feel I haven't done all that is there [TS]

  anything at an amusement park that you are amused but I like the roller coasters I enjoy the ride [TS]

  and on a good roller coaster but I just always think about like oh I can do is I look at the machinery [TS]

  and I look at the twelve year olds running the thing like it's not. You'll see I mean it was Wendell Adams old enough. [TS]

  On the things you be like he's like oh I want to go on the road cause you be like really want to go on it because you [TS]

  know you've seen the machinery. [TS]

  I'VE EVER SEEN the people running it like it's just there's no adult supervision [TS]

  and the maintenance on these things is not great like it's not really that I'm sure I'll feel the same [TS]

  and so I could start driving but you know something goes wrong a rollercoaster runs on that or save you. [TS]

  Yeah except for like quadruple the redundant systems that are keeping you on the track. Oh there it is. [TS]

  That's what they tell you you know these are just ancient wreck the best thing was that my kids wanted to go on like [TS]

  that have a row cause they're called the cycle on which is the name they were used as their six legs as a wooden [TS]

  coaster and it was closing July twentieth. So I was there was like four or five days ago or whatever. [TS]

  So that's what they were closing their eyes like will be the last one to ride it and look like it was peeling [TS]

  and watching the road course to go around [TS]

  and seeing the things swaying been no i go it's supposed to sway invents a wooden coasters do it like no thanks. [TS]

  They were going to write it right before everyone decides it's no longer worth maintaining for safety reasons. [TS]

  Exactly and I was like Well today it's fine but tomorrow because I was there is in today and tomorrow exactly. [TS]

  Well anyway we all survived and you know how they're going review. So tired of that experience. [TS]

  Do we want to talk about overcast for a little bit. [TS]

  Do we have to go I had this one this one that I wanted to answer the question if you want but you know that [TS]

  and I want to like totally make everyone sick of this. Now you had your moment. You're done. [TS]

  Exactly you made me have my moment I wasn't I was going to give it like ten minutes on the on the show. [TS]

  I know I'll just give you our time. [TS]

  All right so there was one thing a writer a listener named John wrote in the same kind of curious if you could talk [TS]

  about how weird is that you have to do so much server side work to do a podcast client the reader guide is not to deal [TS]

  with this. Stuff is a whole group of web based R.S.S. Processors that people can use for sinking. [TS]

  It seems wasteful to each developer has to reinvent the wheel [TS]

  and what they're different cells on usually has nothing to do with the server side work [TS]

  but the client features so what he's asking about is things like how we have to have Google Reader as a big thing [TS]

  service. Before that everyone just crawled their own feed from their R.S.S. Readers. [TS]

  After we were readers deaf we now have things like feed Wrangler and feebly and stuff like that. [TS]

  Other you know sync services [TS]

  and so you don't have to if you want to write a feed reader you don't have to write the whole server side yourself. [TS]

  In fact you probably shouldn't write any service write code you should probably just use the sync services [TS]

  and so you know basically why isn't there one of those for pod casts and I think there's a few reasons for that. [TS]

  First of all there's I mean I'm sure you could go to underscore David Smith [TS]

  and say hey I want to make one of these based on feed Wrangler and I'm pretty sure that's possible [TS]

  or he would let you do it. [TS]

  Either is already there or you could just ask him [TS]

  and he'd be like OK sure like I'm pretty sure most of the sync services if they don't already support that wouldn't [TS]

  have a problem with you doing that. [TS]

  I think I think the bigger question though is I think a stupid question here why do it yourself [TS]

  and why use a server side model at all [TS]

  and I think it was a very questions I mean why do it yourself is a political to lots of things [TS]

  and you know the number one answer to that is because I am me and I don't trust anyone [TS]

  and I don't like their partner tendencies much to a fault. [TS]

  The simple fact is you know when I [TS]

  when I make things I make things with the intention of them lasting a long time whether they do or not so the story [TS]

  but I want them to last for a long time you know and I look at like when I first started Instapaper in two thousand [TS]

  and eight. [TS]

  TIME What if I want to base on some of the service what service would that have been in two thousand eight hundred [TS]

  three were still running today. [TS]

  And if I would have like you know based the whole thing on the original like Facebook app platforms are things coming [TS]

  out around that time. We would that be today. [TS]

  You know stuff like that I like the whole you know basing yourself on someone else's entire service. [TS]

  What if your entire business was making Twitter clients this is the route very real thing that's happened to our people [TS]

  in our industry and you know so you know you can say oh one hundred dollars on X. but Over time X. [TS]

  Will go away and or or change in a way that makes it impossible for you to keep doing that [TS]

  and the question is do you plan to still be around at that time [TS]

  and something you make now might be around longer than you think I don't think you know [TS]

  when I was starting Instapaper in two thousand A Don't think I thought it would still be around in two thousand [TS]

  and fourteen. [TS]

  I probably hoped it would [TS]

  but I'm sure I'm sure that was not in my mind at the time of I better make decisions now that will last at least seven [TS]

  years or whatever you know six years I can't imagine one thing [TS]

  but so you know you have to if you realize like the ground shifts constantly in this business [TS]

  and if you can find some stable ground to stand on you probably should. [TS]

  And and so that means building mostly your own stuff on. [TS]

  I'm just on very like stable long standing boring things that don't shift around things like you know Linux [TS]

  and your own servers like you know things like old languages like P.H.P. [TS]

  and Perl and Ruby [TS]

  and Python these are all like well established languages like it's a pretty safe bet to write something in Python [TS]

  and host it on Linux and have the database be posed to all these days it's a pretty safe bet. [TS]

  So anyway that's one reason to do it yourself and then the second question is why. [TS]

  Why do a server side based infrastructure at all. And there is it isn't a clear win with that. [TS]

  It's a design decision basically and but like a technical design decision there's a lot of advantages to it. [TS]

  There's a lot of this again I guess to it. I chose to do it because I was OK with the decision. [TS]

  She was a disadvantage of course being you have to write the whole thing first of all [TS]

  and you also have to support servers [TS]

  and there's a whole class of problems that you then have to deal with whenever you support a service [TS]

  or website service and that's even if you run it on something like this [TS]

  or as Or you can you still have to support all of that in some way. [TS]

  Maybe you don't have to support the servers go in and out of a time or these abstract platforms [TS]

  but you have you still to support like oh well they made a change and all the sudden requiring this [TS]

  or all of Azure is down for the next twenty minutes [TS]

  and you can't do anything about it like I'm not saying that you know not to pick on them [TS]

  and that happens to S three all the time that happens if you two all the time like this that happens to be the big [TS]

  cloud services where the entire service has a problem [TS]

  or like a quarter of it will just go down an Amazon data center will just be unreachable for twenty minutes [TS]

  and there's nothing you can do about that but it's your problem. It isn't your fault but it's your problem. [TS]

  And so anyway that's this is a diversion [TS]

  but all of the like any kind of service that you have if you don't go to service you might rely on something like i [TS]

  Cloud to do your thinking. Well that's a service like that it's just not yours. [TS]

  You still have all those problems to deal with you just can't do a thing about them anyway. [TS]

  Doing it so all those problems I'm willing to accept. [TS]

  I've done it a lot before I know what's involved in hosting servers. [TS]

  It only gets easier with time so you know I was fine doing it eight years ago I'm even more fine doing it now. [TS]

  It's even easier and cheaper than ever. [TS]

  So that's all fine [TS]

  and in the advantages of what is was a do is not only things like have a web where you know the obvious stuff [TS]

  but things like fix crawling errors without shipping an app update. [TS]

  Like if there were certain a few that wasn't parsing correctly to these crazy mime types one of them use an X.M.L. [TS]

  Header that left at the M. So it just an X L document and I'm so sick of that. [TS]

  There's all sorts of crazy stupid stuff people do and feeds and I've been crowing. [TS]

  How I guess feeds for almost a year but they're still like once I had a real user but they were there. [TS]

  They added way more feed than what I had and so they're still like new. [TS]

  New problems I've run into [TS]

  and I didn't have to ship an app update fix them so how do you handle the one off the exceptions for lack of a better [TS]

  word I don't mean like you know a code exception what I mean is well the people in A.T.P. [TS]

  They don't know how to make an X Mel file so I need to handle specifically the field at this U.R.L. [TS]

  Differently like you have a series of this if else is a switch statement [TS]

  or do you do something a lot more clever than that I would assume the latter use. You assume wrong. [TS]

  So far I'm doing very little about this. So the X.L. [TS]

  Field I have not fixed yet because that's like I'll get in its face for this problem of what do you do do you special [TS]

  cases do you just have a list of conditions in use do a string in place of a question mark X L version equals one point [TS]

  to say that's the right thing like you know what do you do. So far I haven't quite figured it out yet. [TS]

  What I haven't said most of the problems were people using Crazy wrong content types for the enclosures because one [TS]

  thing I do I don't support video and so I have a I have a white list of these are the content types that I support [TS]

  and I map them all to whether this is generally M P three or M P four format [TS]

  and certain people mark their enclosures as text H.T.M.L. but They're not there like M P three S. [TS]

  but They save content type text him now and they expect it to work and so I had to do crap like that. [TS]

  But for that I just have like you know a list of content types that I accept anyway that just I know aren't videos [TS]

  and stuff like that anyway that doesn't matter. So service I let me do stuff like that. [TS]

  It also lets me do things like keep the app code very simple you know [TS]

  and there's all sorts of benefits for things like having to pull a whole bunch of feeds all the time [TS]

  and then you know use a bunch of data and battery life on your device stuff like that. Fast updates told me that once. [TS]

  For me one of these benefits is like my my apt is I have to know X.M.L. [TS]

  and How to parse feeds the server can just can crawl everything in all of its crappy condition. Normalize it all. [TS]

  Strip out the stuff the app isn't even need [TS]

  and then send the app small normalise Jaison blobs you can decode very easily so it lets me do more work on the server [TS]

  side which means more work in a higher level language that allows you to do things like string processing much more [TS]

  easily and has all sorts of built in normalization. [TS]

  Like I have the whole power of icons and so I can get even character sets [TS]

  and solve those kind of problems server side very easily. [TS]

  So it's it's more of a division of labor it's not that the app wouldn't need all this stuff it's still like you have to [TS]

  put a lot logic somewhere and I've chosen to put much of it on a server where it's easier to update [TS]

  and in some cases easier to write and then I then then the African can focus more on the U.I. [TS]

  and Not have to deal with some crazy new fee that's a one off exception here that totally makes sense to me I just [TS]

  didn't know if you were going into like some crazy design pattern whose name escapes me where basically each of these [TS]

  one offs is perhaps in capsulated in a class and you just run through a series of classes to say this. [TS]

  Does this little one off care about this particular feature and you could go totally crazy down that road [TS]

  or you could have like the if else chain from hell and that's a different way of approaching [TS]

  and I was thinking about this earlier today I was curious how you handle that sort of thing [TS]

  and yes it's the same sort of problem I'm sure you had it Instapaper with really weird Dom parsing trying to find the [TS]

  bits you cared about which that you used taxpayer after new for I went through a few things. [TS]

  The very first text parser was actually an X.L. [TS]

  Document and because my previous job in Pittsburgh we did crazy things that I could sell [TS]

  and I knew it extremely well and for the purpose of like parsing. Through a Dom and outputting something as a result. [TS]

  It's really good it's a specially suited language for that task. [TS]

  Yeah if you said The past is very good it does things that if you just have like a domino face [TS]

  and programming language like there are certain entire classes of problems for which a cell is just way way easier to [TS]

  use and in many cases really fast anyway so yeah it's favor that I did a dumb thing that I did X. [TS]

  Past and I ended up with like a big dumb crawling parts of it like it would like to step through the DOM [TS]

  and tag everything with scores and then it would have X. [TS]

  Path to do things with special rules [TS]

  and so I had a thing where you could like you could say OK for this site this is the X. [TS]

  Path for the title this is the X. Path for the body you strip anything matching this X. Fat stuff like that. [TS]

  Obviously it feeds a lot easier. I do I do run through the show notes that are in pod cast feeds. [TS]

  I run those through a bunch of parsing actually to try to normalize them so to do things like like if there isn't a P. [TS]

  Tag around the text put one around it you know something just have one little quick don't wanna text as their show [TS]

  notes I put a P. Tag wraps that way it renders the same way the things that use P. Tags do. [TS]

  On the client side I also strip out inline style tags and certain like inline javascript things [TS]

  and you know things that just wouldn't mess up or possible security holes on the client side. [TS]

  Strip all that out and normalize stuff or move empty paragraphs or move like the one pixel gifts [TS]

  and then the paragraph around them because it's now empty stuff like that. [TS]

  Anyway we're talking about if you find yourself writing Alsip chains to handles variations in input [TS]

  and you're not writing a parser you're probably doing something wrong. So the solution is always right you're an X.M.L. [TS]

  Parser not ours I am saying like if you're doing a parser and you're switching based on the token [TS]

  or something that's fine [TS]

  but if you put it in this case like it you should never like don't even get to the point where you write in the code if [TS]

  it's a speed do this or that if you do that like especially when you know. [TS]

  So what you're going to be doing is parsing feeds in the world of feeds is large [TS]

  and the number of special cases is large and probably just do a series of associated with each feed. [TS]

  You have a default parser [TS]

  and then you have a series of things that you run in order before you get to the default parser [TS]

  and so then you can reuse like of the text H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Thing is a common problem one of your things is that one of your rules is fix broken mime types [TS]

  and another rule is add the em back an X X amount right and so you just apply those rules. [TS]

  Teach podcast so then that way [TS]

  when seven hundred feeds have the bad MIME type you can use that one rule to fix all of them if one has the missing M. [TS]

  An X.M.L. You just do one moral to that but I'm not out of chain. [TS]

  Oh yeah of course it's like a sick as he was offering that is like if anyone's listening. Don't do that please. [TS]

  I would know I wasn't being serious about that for God's sakes I would definitely do something probably very similar to [TS]

  what you describe John. [TS]

  But but I was curious because Mark tends to kind of do the down and dirty approach occasionally [TS]

  and here he is what you chose especially early on I was thinking of the day thinking about the handling between stuff [TS]

  and like if you have access to I don't know if you do if you can get access to the i Tunes catalogue I suppose you [TS]

  could but like green scraping i Tunes or doing whatever [TS]

  but a good exercise for your feed parser would have been I am going to parse [TS]

  and normalize every single podcast available items [TS]

  and then you know make sure the results conform to something reasonable [TS]

  and then you would have found many many exceptions I just don't know if you have access to that corpus of data we're [TS]

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  Anything else about overcast there a couple other bullets here that I didn't write. [TS]

  Well I think Marco should go through the U.I. [TS]

  Changes he made or is making if you want to talk you talk about them on Twitter anything [TS]

  and I will talk about your reasoning in more than one hundred forty characters weren't so basically I'm trying to make [TS]

  the stuff useful to more people besides just me [TS]

  and people who want to hear about everything overcast so please forgive me as I try to stumble through generalizes to [TS]

  be more likable to possibly the work that you the listener are doing anyway. [TS]

  One of the first in that it was I got a few notes and looking over the data a little bit [TS]

  but I didn't pay enough attention to it. [TS]

  I'm going to few notes from people saying the font is too small [TS]

  and I run everything through an appearance manager class where I set all my default of OK this is the main font name [TS]

  this is the secondary font name [TS]

  and I have all these methods for things like you know the preferred font for first you know because like you know i OS [TS]

  seven has all this dynamic text so it has like things like preferred fun descriptor for style [TS]

  and you can say you know if you I found textile body headline caption one caption too I have an appearance class that [TS]

  it accepts the same arguments look at the system then dynamic text setting to get to you it's a good idea for like you [TS]

  know how big the system thinks this tech should be and then returns to the caller. [TS]

  My fonts are based on the system font settings and based on those styles and so I can do things like specify OK it [TS]

  when you when you fetch the font style caption to always return the small caps font [TS]

  and the default color for that font should be this you know [TS]

  and here's the size forward based on the system size etc And that's why I. [TS]

  That's one reason why overcast so easily support damning text because I wrote a script I was having a mind [TS]

  and everything else anyway. [TS]

  I also had a master fun adjustment [TS]

  and I had set that to negative ones so that any font you know checks through the system. [TS]

  Mechanism and if the app requested a fourteen point five X. [TS]

  Return a thirteen point five because I was testing out various fonts a year ago last summer trying to figure out what [TS]

  my file would be and I was trying to normalize the size between a certain fonts like they kind of look bigger [TS]

  and I'm sure there's official terms for this and you know things like the X. [TS]

  Height stuff like that but I'm not an expert on that kind of stuff but I can tell you certain fonts look better [TS]

  or bigger than others and so it's hard to make direct comparison so I like normalize them all [TS]

  and so for this fine I settle on negative one being its fair comparison size [TS]

  and then design a whole app that way shipped. [TS]

  That way everyone saying hey you know what this is kind of the you know this it's a little bit too small. [TS]

  You know let me fix this so I increase the font size I want pixel by changing that negative one to a zero. [TS]

  Now everything looks better and so that's fine. [TS]

  I realize like it sucks to lose the extra one or two characters on each line a title [TS]

  but I realize that the fans were a little too small before and it does look better now [TS]

  and it is a little more accessible now anyway. [TS]

  Secondarily I replace the skip back [TS]

  and skip forward button icons with the standard apple number in the circle with a little back forward symbol kind of on [TS]

  the tail of the circle. If you listen to any process I have ever. [TS]

  No actually it's not sure if you listen to Apple's podcast looking control center or even even happens [TS]

  when the icons on the button didn't even know. Anyway I don't know either. [TS]

  It does no one no one is that the biggest picas up in the world by far. [TS]

  I think they do that because I recognize the icon somewhere else but I've seen them. Right exactly so anyway. [TS]

  Apple has established a standard icon for Skip back and skip forward by X. [TS]

  Number of seconds that is different from the double triangles slash double triangles with the bar at the end kind of [TS]

  thing that tape players and CD players did [TS]

  and I had been using the double triangle icons on overcast now playing screen [TS]

  and I decided to change that because a lot of people were confused as to what those did a lot of people were writing in [TS]

  asking me to add thirty second skip button to the app even though the I've already had that feature they had never [TS]

  tapped that button I got tweeted that I was doing tech support for gas are able to afford [TS]

  and I'm as I'm doing the reply I'm like you know this came up during the beta too and you said yeah [TS]

  but the arrows look better and then nobody pursued it. They're right and the arrows do look better. [TS]

  You're right they do but I mean it's always the but. [TS]

  Right exactly in the beta you can see five people say hey I can't tell how far back or forward thing is going to go [TS]

  or I forget or I don't know if it is there and you answer those five ten people. Done and done. [TS]

  Why Bransford but luckily [TS]

  when you release of the app to everybody it becomes clear very quickly that there's more than five people you have to [TS]

  explain this to and so I said I had to explain to some people. So that's that's where I draw the line. [TS]

  Yeah I mean I had multiple people tell me that they they had never touched those buttons on the plane tree because they [TS]

  assumed they would like you know fast forward [TS]

  or skip to the next track which no one ever wants them honk like overcast actually has no control. [TS]

  That means skip to the next track or skip the previous track [TS]

  or the horrible annoying behavior of the previous track button in pod cast apps [TS]

  and usually which normally in most pod cast apps including Apple's I think I think this is the case if you push the [TS]

  previous track button it does what C. [TS]

  Players do [TS]

  when you put a previous track button which is before it goes to the previous track on the first press it just goes to [TS]

  beginning of the current track where you lose your position in a pod cast which is horrible [TS]

  and I decided there was no place like control the podcast app [TS]

  and so I guess I have those controls anything like if you have a car [TS]

  but like fast forward fast rewind buttons any kind of integration the headphone click [TS]

  or anything that normally triggers a previous track next track action in overcast does the second step buttons instead. [TS]

  Yeah I noticed today when I was driving around [TS]

  and listening to the tail end of the six hour debug epic with the dude from Apple that was on the I was happy team [TS]

  whose name escapes me when he weighs anything an otter. Yes Thank you. [TS]

  They're all incredible like [TS]

  when I saw that there were six hours of this I thought to myself this is going to be painful [TS]

  and I'm probably not going to listen to any of it. Mike. Yes they're incredible they're definitely worth listening to. [TS]

  Anyway the point is I hit the little button on my steering wheel to either fast forward [TS]

  or rewind if you know which one. [TS]

  And sure enough as I'm doing that I'm like I hope this doesn't I think it does I think and then it did [TS]

  and it was wonderful so I don't know if that was a deliberate move on your part I assume so [TS]

  but it was a great great great call. [TS]

  Yeah like I told you like there there literally is no code in overcast that can respond to a button click with that [TS]

  track or forward track like there is. [TS]

  That's doesn't exist because I hate that behavior that you can make an argument for it to the next track I can see the [TS]

  argument there but the previous track feature I think is awful [TS]

  and it's the next track thing like I was talking to someone about it I'm not sure if I want to use names so I will [TS]

  default to NO and you know he was trying to argue for a next track button [TS]

  and I can see an argument that like like a show comes on and you know you're in your car you're driving [TS]

  or something like that and you don't want you know you can easily play with the controls. The show comes on. [TS]

  It's not what you want to hear at that moment. So you want to get to the next one. [TS]

  I get that but the question is if I add something like that where does it go. [TS]

  I'm not even talking on a screen the screen figure out I'm talking about if you have a headphone clicker [TS]

  or a car control or control center buttons when you only have like the seat back seat forward Spock's [TS]

  or rolls in a control where where is a track where the next track button go [TS]

  and you know because I would want to replace the skip forward thirty seconds but it's a very frequently used. [TS]

  So where does it go. I don't think there's a good answer to that. And so for now I'm not going to do it. But we'll see. [TS]

  All right and then finally priority podcasts again was written in the show Notes document I assume that's John. [TS]

  Yeah last show we're talking about parity podcast and how I thought that I didn't need to be a thing a separate place. [TS]

  With a select party podcast [TS]

  and go to a different place after you've done that to order the part guess that you have to like this parody podcast [TS]

  and I was on the multiparty part has a lot of people don't know what that means as they've been tweeting at me that [TS]

  doesn't mean that all podcasts of the same party it's not same thing is not selecting any basically So I think this is [TS]

  what's confusing. Liking something is a priority podcast merely means that now this pontiff can be ordered. [TS]

  Now you can say this is my number one this is my number two for for upon Kaspar to participate at all in that ordering. [TS]

  You must say it is a priority podcast and I'm making quotes of my fingers. [TS]

  And so I always want all of them to be pirated podcasts because I want to set an order for all of them some people [TS]

  don't want all of them to be part of that is what one two or three to be party party gets [TS]

  and the rest of them too I'm assuming they sort by whatever you pick the order like whichever has the newest heralds [TS]

  episode or whatever. [TS]

  Whereas you know your number one podcast low is be your number one podcast regardless of what new episodes come out in [TS]

  your non-party Pod Yes I want to revisit it because the last show we were just talking about the whole concept [TS]

  and who would want to party non-party turns out a lot of people. [TS]

  Now I just wanna go back to the root of the problem which is why do I have to go to the sever place to elect things to [TS]

  be sure to spin the party Parvez and I was trying to think of a U.I. [TS]

  What i ways we want is to select the podcasts that are part of a playlist [TS]

  and write in that scene around scream rooms like in the podcast be able to sort them out [TS]

  and if I don't sort them they stay in sort of the unsorted bin the bottom never do sort them they thing the sort of to [TS]

  action [TS]

  and there's not really good analogue of that I could think of kind of like the Netflix queue which is kind of like you [TS]

  know and that's like Steve you they're all parody podcasts where there's like a dividing line with the non parody ones. [TS]

  It's difficult to come up with the U.I. [TS]

  For it but I think that would be clearer to people like this concept that we've talked about [TS]

  and the people tweeting back [TS]

  and forth about I'm not sure how many people understand all the nuances of how I mean I certainly didn't [TS]

  and people tweeting the questions are there all the nuances of how priority a non-party partisan. [TS]

  Which other if you just had one screen that showed [TS]

  when you're making a playlist here's all the podcast they can participate in this playlist [TS]

  and some of them are sorted by priority and some of them are not and here they are [TS]

  and you could drag between those two regions in a big list or something I think that would make more sense [TS]

  and would save me a trip into the separate region for electing. Before I go back to the the region for sorting. [TS]

  Yeah I mean that's that's a fair idea. [TS]

  There's a big question mark there are still you know how do you do this as you said I mean it's it's a hard problem to [TS]

  solve. I'm not sure it's a net win. [TS]

  Like if it's the current price the current problem is a combination of if you know what you're doing already. [TS]

  If you already understand these features then you get kind of annoying to have to go to different places to do to do [TS]

  this thing you know to add a new show to a pod cast. [TS]

  Wasn't there making a priority and put it in order to get a priority. [TS]

  I get that [TS]

  but the other problem is you know for people who don't already know this feature this you like it might even add more [TS]

  complexity to it. I think the current division makes it harder to understand what the app is capable of. [TS]

  That's what I'm getting at like the feedback I've gotten Twitter's of evils that they're not. People won't discover. [TS]

  I think they have a show I think the playlist creation stuff is the most important feature of the application to me [TS]

  and I think it is not as discoverable as it could be because people don't understand that process go over here like [TS]

  these things now they're eligible go over go over the other place an order of them and what that all means [TS]

  and the resulting The resulting sort of workflow of like [TS]

  when podcast come in where do they where they fall on my list of things that I'm playing [TS]

  and the fact that they can essentially set up almost any reasonable ordering that they want by a combination of [TS]

  priority non-party partisan playlists that is powerful. [TS]

  It's the question is how do we how do you show people that that's possible without some crazy tutorial [TS]

  or some other thing like that [TS]

  and right now I think a lot of people don't know that they can do that with this after they already have because it's [TS]

  not clear from the naming [TS]

  and from the interface because I can't think of any other analogous interface with this elective. [TS]

  Then you go back to a different region with things you like to do are now able to be manipulated in new way [TS]

  and this other place. [TS]

  Oh yeah I mean and the whole concept of playlist [TS]

  and overcast is is a challenge for me to sell people on because I hear from so many people who all say I've never used [TS]

  playlists before my podcast I don't see the point I don't see why I need to use this and it's hard to. [TS]

  And in some cases people on the beta said that [TS]

  and I told them hey you know what here's how I use them I want to try to see if you like it. [TS]

  And every time the person has come back saying oh my God I love this like now use playlist now I get it you know now [TS]

  there's a reason to use it [TS]

  and it's hard for it's hard for people to realize that that's one of the reasons why as soon as you subscribe to at [TS]

  least two shows I create your first playlist for you as soon as you need to do another shows where it would matter. [TS]

  I create the all episodes playlist for you server side [TS]

  and I could sing to your can you can edit it you can delete it you can do every want [TS]

  but the first time you do that I create that for you to kind of force you to maybe use maybe click on at one time to [TS]

  see hey what is odd So that sounds convenient. [TS]

  And you know I use the word playlist because that's what everyone else uses because that's an i Tunes users [TS]

  and people are people are used to the idea of playlist. I would love if a different word would solve this problem. [TS]

  I just don't think a different word would solve this problem of not a playlist of the problem because people think like [TS]

  why would I want to manually arraign it sounds like what I used to do if i Pod shuffle [TS]

  and the whole the whole idea is like this is a hybrid smart play with regular players [TS]

  and the best of both worlds combined [TS]

  and then within the realm of these playlists How do I define it like I use the all episodes playlists like I have [TS]

  modified it because it's I mean it's very close to what I want minus all the privatization and exclusions [TS]

  and stuff that I do and the manual reordering. [TS]

  It's just a question of once they understand the playlists are good why what can I do with them [TS]

  and they get into that setting screen. [TS]

  Which is probably one of the more intimidating setting screens on the app [TS]

  and then you know understanding how can I get the result that I want because I think like I again I I don't people say [TS]

  they only have one or two or three priority projects if we force them to order all of them when they have trouble [TS]

  or you know are there such as are a second class citizen type of show where they never want to bubble up. [TS]

  I feel like if you told anybody to say rank these all of your pod casts are how much you like them you know they [TS]

  when you get out of the bottom it's weird but I feel like people can do a ranking. [TS]

  I got I don't even know if you need to reasons [TS]

  but again people have disagreed on that I just I just think that if you force everyone to sort everything they would [TS]

  have a very similar experience of the current one with a sort of one or two or three and everything else in a bucket [TS]

  but either way an interface that makes it clear that you can do one or both of those things [TS]

  or makes it clearer that you can do one [TS]

  or both those things would help a lot of people because like you said I think a lot of people think that playlist means [TS]

  more work for them when it's the exact opposite it means less that means almost no work [TS]

  or means that let the thing do the work for you and all you have to do is want to happen it play [TS]

  and it wouldn't go through the park. And exactly the sort of the you want to hear them. [TS]

  I mean it's like I thought of the word like the word filter or something like that like some other kind of word but [TS]

  but again it's overall like I still think playlist is the best word for this feature and [TS]

  and the fact that even even after people know playlist you know that they still often are less is using to they never [TS]

  have used them in a podcast before I think it was the kind of thing where I'm going to have to do my best. [TS]

  You're right that the screen is definitely not intuitive I definitely have something they can improve their. [TS]

  No question there but I also I recognize the inherent complexity in this in this concept and these capabilities [TS]

  and I don't know that there is a way to make it easy enough to do to win over some of these people but I don't know [TS]

  and I'll certainly play with it. Right so I want to tell me about some That's cool. [TS]

  We're also sponsored this week by back blaze our friends are back blaze back please. [TS]

  Simple it's five dollars a month for unlimited untrodden uncomplicated online backup your files that are available [TS]

  anywhere on your. I OS devices if you have Android but who cares. [TS]

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  So anyway back to late online backup really five bucks a month per computer. [TS]

  And so for most of you that's five bucks a month [TS]

  but makes is more interesting so I went back up man there's there are so many reasons you should be doing online backup. [TS]

  I've used that phrase myself for years long before they were a sponsor. [TS]

  I'm very glad they are a sponsor now because it makes it easier for me to talk about them to actually use them. [TS]

  They're fantastic they're my favorite on a backup service I've tried other ones they are by far my favorite [TS]

  and it just works like your uploads are on throttle which is great like I have a throttling issue with another service [TS]

  where I can upload it often files connection at sixty five megabyte the second which is awesome [TS]

  but this other one wouldn't they would take it like you know two hundred killed at the second or something [TS]

  and Bakley will upload it looks up the files as quickly as you're going to send them so you know [TS]

  and you can devote certain percentage you're Ben with but usually client smart enough [TS]

  and you can just leave it running a little to the right thing. [TS]

  I'm going back it was really important because you know you never know what could happen. [TS]

  You should always have local backups too because it's easy and fast recover from them [TS]

  but you know worst case scenario you always know that you have this online backup ready if you need it [TS]

  and you never know like what if what if there's like a fire or a flood [TS]

  or you know like if you're an apartment what if the apartment above you like they have a water leak [TS]

  and then at least all of you computer [TS]

  and destroys everything on your desk including your time machine drive that happens that you know as people that happen [TS]

  all the time and so it's always good to have offsite backups to protect against things that happen to your dwelling [TS]

  and therefore all the stuff is put in your computer but offsite you know usually it was like oh yeah I'm going to put. [TS]

  Parents house and also I call it out every few months many forget to do it in the night out of Dayton. [TS]

  You can maybe restore from the back if you made one six years ago and that's no good. [TS]

  So back late you just have it on a cloud it's great. [TS]

  They also have things like him a lot of occasions they can notify you if they are if they haven't heard from you [TS]

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  I got like three terabyte of their simple as backup. Go to back please dot com slash Thanks a lot. [TS]

  To back please for sponsoring our show once again. [TS]

  So we should probably briefly touch on the Sapphire i Phone six screen that may not be sapphire at all it's going to be [TS]

  off the hook. I think it might be. It's possible. [TS]

  So we talked an episode or two ago about a video that somebody that we weren't familiar with whose name I forgot again. [TS]

  That's why there's a link in there. So we give you credit this time. Thank you. [TS]

  It is Marcus Brownlee as they are out of prison. No idea. M.A.R.Q. Yes I'm going with Marcus hopefully I'm right. [TS]

  He put up a second video which was actually I like the first video but I thought the second one was even better [TS]

  and basically he used a little bit of science to explain why the screen is not actually made of pure sapphire [TS]

  and I don't know if you guys have any commentary on that will link in the show. No it's but it's worth checking out. [TS]

  It's it's a few minutes it was really good. [TS]

  Yeah it was really good I think I think a little bit of science is the correct modifier for the mission however. [TS]

  Well so so what he did was basically So in the last video he had he had this this leaked part that was. [TS]

  And i Phone six display cover glass and it was [TS]

  and he showed in the first video all these crazy stress test of a taking a knife to it bending it so it was almost like [TS]

  a huge shape. [TS]

  All this crazy stuff and it would not scratch or crack [TS]

  or shatter it was just it was just perfect even after bending it in the you it still would not shatter and heat [TS]

  and you know the knife testing everything would not scratch [TS]

  and so the problem is as we as I've learned another thing most people of learn if they will look into it at all. [TS]

  Pure sapphire crystal is extremely strong but it is not flexible. [TS]

  That right is a match where you guys have found that that's what my understanding is yes so it was based on the [TS]

  incredible flexibility of this panel is being shown in the video it made it pretty unlikely it was pure Sapphire. [TS]

  There's also some concerns people have brought up who are more familiar with manufacturing [TS]

  and stuff like that that all sapphire panel of that size would also be pretty expensive. [TS]

  And so it makes it less likely not not totally ruled out but it makes it less likely that Apple would use [TS]

  and also fire panel. But so so what this guy did Marcus I hope I'm present name right. [TS]

  But anyway what he did was he he took he took the panel again after reading these you know people saying hey that might [TS]

  not be sapphire and Sapphire has a very high hardness on the night that that diamond hardness scale [TS]

  and so he took sand papers of materials that should be able to scratch or not scratch sapphire [TS]

  and showed it actually scratched up. I feel bad for the i Phone five S. U. T. I Phone five S. [TS]

  That he actually he took sandpaper to a five because the five S. [TS]

  We know has a non sapphire glass cover on the screen but a sapphire home button cover over the Touch ID home button. [TS]

  That's pure sapphire and so he took the same papers to it and showed that you know they would trash the glass [TS]

  but they would not scratch the sapphire Touch ID cover. [TS]

  So and then that same thing would scratch this new leaked part but not quite as much as a scratch the F one five S. [TS]

  So it appears as though the part that he has is not pure sapphire because it scratched more easily than the Touch ID [TS]

  home button but is much more like the much more strongly against resisting scratches. [TS]

  Then the glass currently on the i Phone [TS]

  and for the reason I said he was getting a little bit of science this test a couple reasons. [TS]

  First the sandpaper he was using. [TS]

  I'm not entirely sure that one hundred percent of the particles glued onto that piece of paper are of the material [TS]

  advertised on the sand paper. [TS]

  I have no idea where the quality control is on sandpaper things I know that kids who are allergic to nuts can eat food [TS]

  that is manufactured in the same factories not which makes me believe that there is a large possibility they could be [TS]

  part of other than the ones advertised on those pieces of ham paper so right away it's not a particularly controlled [TS]

  test for hardness. You know scientifically speaking. Second the idea that the Touch I.D. [TS]

  Sensor is somehow purer sapphire or a solid sapphire that is the only material that's made out of. [TS]

  I'm not sure where that's coming from in the way he tested it by kind of digging his finger into the little thing with [TS]

  the sandpaper and trying to scratch it in the other little region. It's not it's better than not testing it at all. [TS]

  But it's not quite the same thing as being able to rub the sandpaper on the giant service of the five S. [TS]

  Because it's kind of down in a little divot and you don't really have enough room to scratch back and forth [TS]

  and it was hard to tell if he was making any dent at all in that thing there. [TS]

  The most clear test obviously was the same piece of sand paper five S. Versus this new thing new thing better. [TS]

  That's what we're missing in the first video because all these impressive things he did with it with it in the first [TS]

  video. [TS]

  The question was always all right fine so how would a fire how would an existing i Phone screen Pharaoh's that same [TS]

  test maybe it exactly is thirty and what he was basically saying when he talk about the harness. [TS]

  Yeah probably regular i Phone screen probably would have fared just as well because he was using soft metals that were [TS]

  going to scratch and even glass right away so this was a much better test. [TS]

  Still him tell us you know what we want to know is is this really the the i Phone six thing in terms of the pureness a [TS]

  real [TS]

  or full sapphire whatever as I said I'm passionate was it seemed obvious that if they're going to make something as big [TS]

  as or is going to have to be a laminate or use some deposition process [TS]

  and if we can't tell which one of the things they did [TS]

  but like Marco said the idea of it being solid one hundred percent sapphire all the way through would mean it would be [TS]

  much too bright all the things obviously non-parental So it's just a question of how thick is that top layer of [TS]

  sapphire or is it just you know atomized and you know heated [TS]

  and then deposited on there through some process like sort of coated with ID is it a separate thin layer of sapphire [TS]

  that's bonded to it in some way are there multiple sapphire lately you know we have no idea what the manufacturing is [TS]

  I'm sure if Apple wants to brag about the show as a cool slide and maybe some robots building something [TS]

  and some layer sandwich things who knows what they'll say but this video was more informative didn't last [TS]

  and I was kind of disappointed to see two we thought about it for a while I mean disappointed to see how easily [TS]

  sandpaper scratches even the new ones because it wasn't him rubbing that hardness like well [TS]

  and only one point of it he said unless you have a high quality same paper your pocket you don't to worry about this [TS]

  well you know one thing that does go in pockets sand you have sand in your pocket and so the idea is like this. [TS]

  This I thought was indestructible I don't have to worry about anything unless there happens to be you know I maybe it's [TS]

  because I'm from Long Island I just expect us fans don't like calling faggots but I still think that [TS]

  and they could I have one in my pocket with Santa can even know what's makes them in any way. [TS]

  I look forward to the day some day of being able to get a caseless i Phone that is basically impervious to scratches in [TS]

  any normal condition. Looks much more sturdy than the five S. [TS]

  By a long shot but I was kind of depressed to see how easily you could scratch even a new one. [TS]

  Step one should be should get an i Phone at all and then you can worry about it scratching as well. Baby steps again. [TS]

  One six looks like it but I could get one it's conceivable In fact I wish I had one right now for Yosemite [TS]

  and after things on this take my wife's five S and upgraded to Iowa State which I've still still not done yet. [TS]

  You want you want to get better right now whether you will get one. I'm a bet no. [TS]

  So yes I think like fifty fifty you want to bet I don't I'm going to bet it went by betting on. [TS]

  Why would first of all why would anyone take a bet with me when I control the outcome. [TS]

  Because you don't control the outcome. Your neurosis does. [TS]

  No no that's not not accurate the amount of money I will bet you for nothing just just betting to be right I will bet [TS]

  that you won't get it. Oh I don't know hands I will say I think I'm going to go on. [TS]

  I'm going to abstain from them and now it's just all right well we'll find out. [TS]

  I mean we also don't know what the product looks like this point you don't even know whether you're getting the big [TS]

  giant one of the regular ones so we have to just wait to see what's what. [TS]

  I'd also go back to the video for Just for a second. [TS]

  I still maintain that we don't actually know whether any Sapphire is involved with this thing [TS]

  and all this could be another type of material you know so maybe something new from Corning you know the maker of [TS]

  Gorilla Glass Maybe it's like you don't know this well so they could have some sort of mass spectrometer [TS]

  or something to to actually tell you what elements are on the same leg. [TS]

  If you know I want to go for Dr growing on this like I have the technology we can actually find out what exactly what [TS]

  the screen is made out of if we cared [TS]

  but you know it's just people doing bending stuff on You Tube The only thing that we know that people are basing this [TS]

  on is that Apple has built this giant sapphire plant in Arizona right [TS]

  or vested in it whatever they've done they're involved in a big sapphire plant [TS]

  but that might not be for this that might be for more Touch ID sensors they might be for a potential I watch cover [TS]

  or something like that that could be first. [TS]

  Many other things besides the i Phone cover glass [TS]

  and so I really don't think that we can assume yet I don't think there's enough information to assume that Sapphire is [TS]

  being involved at the screen and all that is it is a bit early. [TS]

  We're also sponsored by our friends at square space square space is the on one platform that makes it both fast [TS]

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  Thank you very much to square space for your support. [TS]

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  And we really appreciate that quite a lot from them. [TS]

  Thank you very much to Squarespace a better Web Start with your web site. [TS]

  So last week when Marco was so selfish about the show [TS]

  and refused to move along from overcast there was some actually legitimate news about Apple and I.B.M. [TS]

  and We didn't get a chance to talk about that last week we should probably talk about it now [TS]

  and so what happened was Apple and I.B.M. Announced a partnership to I guess. So I.B.M. [TS]

  Is going to kind of sell in push Apple stuff in the enterprise is that what's a better summary of this. [TS]

  You got it all right. So so a lot of people were scratching their heads on this one. [TS]

  And for me it was particularly interesting because my dad just retired from I.B.M. [TS]

  After a long long time just a few weeks ago. [TS]

  And unfortunately even after pushing he either didn't have any insider information he could share [TS]

  or refused to if he did have it. But this is certainly an interesting partnership and interesting. [TS]

  I don't require hundreds of a couple of companies that have been kind of flirting with each other on [TS]

  and off for forever I don't know. John what did you think about this. [TS]

  So in past shows and past podcasts I talk a lot about Enterprise entanglements [TS]

  and how you know you're honest I guess are a defined enterprise software [TS]

  or software where the person by who buys it is not the person who uses it. [TS]

  So the people make are motivated to satisfy the buyer of the new user and that's why the software is crappy [TS]

  and enterprise in tandem is about a company starts deriving a lot of its profits or revenues [TS]

  or both from serving the enterprise [TS]

  and then it becomes beholden to the small number of people who determine whether software is satisfactory to the [TS]

  and private enterprise rather than the large number of consumers who might buy a product you know. [TS]

  So it is worse to be beholden to a small number of companies and to a small number of power people in those companies. [TS]

  If your products worse and then you get tied to them like you know it's a golden handcuffs. [TS]

  That's where you get most your money on this happened to Microsoft lot. [TS]

  Some companies immediately just go completely off the deep end on this like S.A.P.'s Oracle that's all they do is they [TS]

  you know that they don't sign a contract for less than five figures and you know you want them to be six seven [TS]

  or eight figures most of the time and they have a huge sales force that goes out there to sell these contracts [TS]

  and the software they make is terrible and everyone hates it but they say it like that's the worst case scenario. [TS]

  So Apple's at the farther end of the spectrum in Iran to do the stupid enterprises they don't want to deal with [TS]

  companies like that they don't want their software is to get worse that they don't want their their agenda [TS]

  or their product the features that they need to do to be dictated to a small number of people anywhere except for [TS]

  inside the company obviously And so for all this time where we talk about Apple do this thing with the i Pods [TS]

  and the i Phones [TS]

  and they're pressing computers all this time it's like wow Apple doesn't want to get into that business for you so [TS]

  Exchange servers and there was a brief Dowling's with the X. [TS]

  Serve and was ten server that as mail servers and stuff like that but their heart was never [TS]

  and they were never willing to do enterprises want they want service contracts that example have value added resellers [TS]

  they've had that as well [TS]

  but then they have their own official channels they have their business layers on like you could tell that Apple's is [TS]

  never willing to do what it takes to serve the enterprise and talk to anybody does I.T. [TS]

  In a big companies like my you know my customers my users essentially the employees of the company want Apple hardware [TS]

  but it's such a pain in the ass to support and Apple's tools aren't that great [TS]

  and getting anything from Apple the pain and depending on what reseller you go through he goes directly you know [TS]

  and Apple does what it has to do if the Enterprise develops doesn't like highways three [TS]

  or whatever it was to integrate with Exchange servers and to be better with with the Enterprise [TS]

  and they have Enterprise after plan for their app stores like they do it's not a do nothing it's not like they're [TS]

  willfully hostile to it [TS]

  but in general their reputation in the enterprise is not good that other companies do more for the enterprise than [TS]

  Apple and it's always been a thing well tough luck. [TS]

  Didn't doesn't want its company to be reshaped by contact with the enterprise because contact direct contact with the [TS]

  Enterprise will reshape the company and so we're just kind of of this impasse. [TS]

  Apple doesn't want take this business Microsoft currently has the business [TS]

  but it's not an interesting business to be in like nobody even Google's kind like half hearted Well there's Google Apps [TS]

  for business. [TS]

  You could use that instead of office and exchange [TS]

  and like nobody wants that business is a crappy business like you know except Oracle and I say be in sales force [TS]

  and Microsoft and Apple isn't going to take it [TS]

  and so we've been languishing in this place this weird place where nobody wants blackberries anymore everyone hates [TS]

  Exchange and Share Point [TS]

  but that's what we all use because no one is saying oh I want to take that business from Microsoft I want to pervert my [TS]

  company to the needs of enterprise I.T. [TS]

  It's just it's poisonous if you like if you like companies like Apple and don't like companies like Oracle. [TS]

  As every right thinking person should. [TS]

  So this deal is basically Apple finally the important thing here is Apple is my only thing I will take that business [TS]

  like [TS]

  but we don't want to touch it directly like it's now it's too big it's like you know there's nothing we should just let [TS]

  Microsoft have this business by default it shouldn't just go to Oracle and I.B.M. [TS]

  and Say why did they just get it by default. [TS]

  It's a big business the people who work at these companies want to use our products. [TS]

  We're not willing to do what it takes directly to to change our company to be an enterprise company. [TS]

  But now we are saying we're raising your hand saying all right we're going to go after that business. [TS]

  So no longer do all the companies get it by default because Apple is just no good at this and they've kept I.B.M. [TS]

  At their lucky partner to say we're not going to touch directly you touch directly [TS]

  but we're going to sic you on them [TS]

  and say Go get them go make every single company you know make them happy to use our products right. You sell them. [TS]

  You have the sales force out there doing the last thing you do all those icky enterprise deals they can play. [TS]

  Do you not us. Right. [TS]

  You make the special and you know applications so they can integrate i Pads with their business [TS]

  and do all this other stuff or whatever. We don't want to do that and so when that when the customers complained I.B.M. [TS]

  That you know sort of the relationship between ita inventor [TS]

  but I feel like well you know we don't control apple does that their O.S.'s like I will tell them we'll tell them you [TS]

  don't like it when they upgrade too fast [TS]

  and screw over yours will tell them that you want them to keep making the i Pad two forever like whatever you know [TS]

  but like well what can we do they're not you know it's not us they're Apple right. And so I.B.M. [TS]

  Is the go between there [TS]

  and I've you know of course gets you know gets the money off the top of that they get more business because now they [TS]

  are I think is that exclusive relationship there. [TS]

  They're the exclusive gateway into the enterprise for all of Apple's stuff. [TS]

  I'm not quite sure how this deal works in terms of the existing value added resellers of Apple stuff [TS]

  and existing in a retail chain in his relationship or ever [TS]

  but theoretically at the time of like the press release announcing it looks very much like Apple is now finally saying [TS]

  that it wants in on the enterprise business in the way it is found to do it without ruining its own you know running [TS]

  the company Re everything's good about the company is having a go between do all the dirty work for them or you. [TS]

  You do realize that there is a Apple sales force directly targeting enterprise right now you know yeah you can I mean [TS]

  it's better than it was before like they will sell you know they'll build your volume just announce it like this the [TS]

  whole enterprise enterprise outscored think they'll do the service you know to bring your stuff into that used to be [TS]

  the bring your stuff to the Apple store to give X. [TS]

  Now they have you know their But the more you get into business like they're sort of dipping your toe in all these [TS]

  things and going Well Apple has that level kind of has that but they're not really good. [TS]

  They're not really engaged in in the way these other companies are [TS]

  and so your choices were become engaged in it make this a big part of your business get serious about the enterprise [TS]

  or don't do that have someone else do that for you and can and that sort of lets Apple continue to be Apple [TS]

  and be sort of wild and fancy free and run with flowers and tear through the fields. So well I don't know. [TS]

  I V M S to be they're signing these contracts and doing the support stuff [TS]

  and writing the custom applications for the big companies and I guess what I've been doing anyway right. So I.B.M. [TS]

  Is more than happy to take this business. [TS]

  If it works it is a very clever solution to get some of that money that has been going to these companies with quote [TS]

  unquote worse products for just decades [TS]

  and without you know without it changing what Apple is without changing all the good things that are good about Apple [TS]

  for consumers and stuff so I don't know if that can work it just does adding a buffer make it make it OK [TS]

  and now a work out [TS]

  or is there more to it that is it that Apple will always be defeated by the companies that are actually willing to do [TS]

  to do what enterprises want directly and maybe I.B.M. [TS]

  Will not be able to convince people [TS]

  or not be able to do enough on its own to make Apple more palatable to the enterprise like the Pastor Hagee was what [TS]

  does make your stuff so good that ID can be taught to choke down whatever we do will do a little bit to support them. [TS]

  But we're never going to do with it other companies do. [TS]

  What I don't understand is I don't see how this can really make a big difference until the support strategy changes [TS]

  pretty dramatically. [TS]

  And I'm looking at the press release and it says and I'm quoting mobile service [TS]

  and support Apple Care for enterprise will provide I.T. [TS]

  Departments [TS]

  and end users with twenty four seven assistance from Apple's award winning customer support group with onsite service [TS]

  livered by I.B.M. [TS]

  and I can tell you that I work in pretty small firms [TS]

  and most of the reason that I've ever heard for us to buy Dells which all the companies I've ever worked for almost [TS]

  exclusively generally favor Dells over anything else [TS]

  and the reason was the primary reason was either that they were very cheap [TS]

  or if something breaks the next business day there is a Dell repair service person operative whatever hinting office [TS]

  replacing what's broken or just handing us a new computer. And without that. End of just immediate service. [TS]

  I don't know if this will ever really take off. Well as nobody has read that I.B.M. Source to provide I.B.M. [TS]

  Provides onsite service because like that's exactly the type of thing that Apple as a company is not equipped to do to [TS]

  provide that for all of the enterprise there is not built that way. But I.B.M. Is built that way. [TS]

  They'll send a guy that's what our human has is guys to send right and that's the that's what I'm kind of asking [TS]

  and we don't know the answer was a semi rhetorical question [TS]

  but until this apple care for Enterprise gets more concretely defined I don't know if I really see this making a big [TS]

  difference unless it really is doing all the things that these Dell you know Tiger Team people come in and do. [TS]

  But yeah I mean again we're at the press release stage so we have nothing concrete to go on here [TS]

  but at the press release that it's like I.B.M. Is not unfamiliar with doing all the things you said the Dell did. [TS]

  Like that idea is exactly that kind of company for this type of stuff as just I would have to assume the whole point is [TS]

  I.B.M. [TS]

  Is going to do all those things that all the things that Apple either wouldn't do or wouldn't do as enthusiastically [TS]

  or wouldn't give the same guarantees about an I.B.M. [TS]

  Will make the you know the contract that you signed and specify exactly what this stuff is [TS]

  and let you pay through the nose so that you can get a laptop repaired [TS]

  or replaced with one business days notice if that's part of your service contract [TS]

  or whatever like all these enterprise things that I mean because it takes so much to do that so much hand-holding so [TS]

  much salesmanship so most relationship dealing with a relationship with these big companies. [TS]

  That's just not Apple's forte that's not what the company is built around [TS]

  and having some else do it for you goes a long way towards making it possible you still left with the problem of OK [TS]

  well what about service and support an O. S. [TS]

  Upgrades and compatibility [TS]

  and all of the stuff that Apple general paternally apps to busy running for we can't we can't look back I don't care [TS]

  what we're breaking we're just running forward as fast as we can because that's how we win the race in the consumer [TS]

  space and ultimately where we were and everything. So this is probably not going to slow our. [TS]

  All down from that race but at least only someone left holding the bag and it's I.B.M. [TS]

  Having to apologize rabble explain things and I.B.M. [TS]

  Perhaps to bend over backwards and make things better for the people who are having problems. [TS]

  All right well scum Marco you don't have any thoughts about the enterprise. Nope not at all. [TS]

  I think I think going to be a good time for me to give everyone a break for me. Fair enough. Anything else going on. [TS]

  We don't. There is a real time follow up on sand. Oh OK thanks a lot to earth response. I mean cotton Biro back please. [TS]

  And Squarespace. And we will see you next week. Now this show is over. It was accidental accidental. [TS]

  John thank you for sitting on the learn from this sister that can live with a veil have all been saying one of the last [TS]

  throes of my have my own sense Tory that they had told before this. [TS]

  When I brought my aluminum powerboat key for to an Apple store to the Genius Bar and they guy slit it like two inches. [TS]

  Across the Genius Bar to himself and there was one grain of sand underneath that laptop [TS]

  and went just some was talking about sand is mostly made of softer materials like it doesn't take much. [TS]

  It takes one grain of sand in the wrong place right in the wrong way to make a little scratch nobody cares about [TS]

  but that the worst thing that can happen like my Abah Thunderball display I've been back to the Apple store three times [TS]

  to fix various problems and is now fully functional but those three trips to [TS]

  and from the Apple Store have the scars on it and the people that have left [TS]

  or are super careful compared to people like Best Buy right. [TS]

  But they're not as careful as I would be careful [TS]

  and even I would accidentally damage it eventually as just you know big heavy things being manipulated. [TS]

  Aluminum is not as hard as Sapphire let's just say. [TS]

  Yeah I think scratch it's tough [TS]

  and a scratch like that no one will take you seriously if you explain that it has a few as well you can barely see it [TS]

  but I mean I maybe made Maggie's friends and do you care the laptops get stretched. [TS]

  Oh absolutely I used to care a lot more I mean like my first mac was a parable for aluminum [TS]

  and I sold it after about three years of using it [TS]

  and it looked brand new like if it didn't have the keyboard marks on the screen. [TS]

  Like so many of them did because I read early on that if you put it like in a back pack facing out vs facing in then it [TS]

  wouldn't get the marks of the screen wasn't because squeezed in that way [TS]

  and in the even like I had I didn't have a dedicated laptop bag I just had like a backpack that was just like a general [TS]

  purpose backpack [TS]

  and so I kind of fashioned this big felt pocket that I like in sort of this be like still sleeve into one of the [TS]

  pockets and made that a dedicated laptop pocket and only ever had this big thick black felt it with it [TS]

  and so this thing was pristine it was per And even when I was using it. [TS]

  It was usually tended to keyboard mouse or monitor so the keyboard wasn't even worn away [TS]

  or all greased up like it looked brand new when I sold it. [TS]

  Since then though I've I've only used laptops for like travel [TS]

  and stuff which is happening more now as I'm you know an adult [TS]

  and keep doing family stuff so now my machines don't stay that pristine and it kind of makes me upset. [TS]

  They're still very good. I would say they are still far away. [TS]

  Like you know the top one percent tile of condition for for age [TS]

  but that doesn't mean much these days because people I see something ridiculous like that it's not like that's what's [TS]

  worth about like a thing I don't monitor it's supposed to just be sitting on a desk in theory it comes to your house [TS]

  you unpack it it's perfect at that point you hope you put it on your desk [TS]

  and then never touch it again it's a monitor maybe you touch it to adjust the angle every once in a while [TS]

  but in general it's like a desktop monitor it's not going anywhere [TS]

  and so to have that that big heavy thing makes three trips to [TS]

  and from the back of an Apple store it's inevitably going to come out with little nicks [TS]

  and scratches that you won't see. [TS]

  No no one will see them no no they're there you just look at the picture on the screen right [TS]

  but I know that I know where they are to just you just try to forget it could be worse it could be like the bad old [TS]

  days of the apple twenty to twenty two inch Cinema Display with a big clear two little feet and dead pixels [TS]

  and then you know that's just like yeah I still remember that tickles [TS]

  or I could point to them right now on my screen at one point it's also it's not great to live with the current Mac. [TS]

  The IMAX I think assume its less of the same thing where the construction is such that like with yours they were [TS]

  probably working on like the logic board that has like little peripherals and stuff plugged into it. [TS]

  They weren't like working on the panel but like if you're working on my mac the way you work [TS]

  and I could you take the screen off like you suck the glass off of the suction cups [TS]

  and then you like you lift the whole screen out to get to the inside. [TS]

  That's how you get into these things and so the chances of you putting that screen back exactly right. [TS]

  Now when a scratch but leaving no dust anywhere and like no dust getting between the layers [TS]

  and getting in there like there's the chances of that goal and purposely are pretty remote. [TS]

  I think Apple stores have special rigs just solely for that purpose to vacuum out blow out any dust because I've been [TS]

  again three trips [TS]

  and every single time those glasses come off every single time they've separated the glass from the like you have to [TS]

  get at the inside they weren't touching that part [TS]

  but you know there could have been dust every single time every time I got it back I would dread looking it in things [TS]

  and be the dust out of there. [TS]

  They have not done that but the little nicks on the aluminum thing like I mean these are really tiny. [TS]

  That again people think you're crazy for saying you even noticed [TS]

  but you know if you're if you're the type of person you have to put it on your mind then pictures like what you can do [TS]

  out there's nothing you can do about it you're not going to complain [TS]

  and say I want to new thing because you put his microscopic neck on it right. [TS]

  It kind of reminds me of the worst experience I have like this is when I was a kid [TS]

  and I had my mac SE thirty which was my favorite mac ever but [TS]

  when I first got it the power supply had a whine like a high pitched whine. [TS]

  You know I don't know if it was a transformer or whatever it was that was causing the noise. [TS]

  But I remember I was coming off a plus at that point which has no fans in it as a great machine. [TS]

  One twenty five twelve an A plus didn't have fans in them the SE thirty five pretty sure had a fan [TS]

  but also that the power supply one was the dominant noise and it had a fan I have to look it up anyway [TS]

  and it was loud enough that I complained about it [TS]

  and we brought it back to not an Apple store because they didn't exist to our Apple retail store [TS]

  and said hey this thing makes a high pitch why noise and everyone at the App Store claimed they could not hear it [TS]

  and the thing is I believe them because when you get older you lose like the high frequencies. [TS]

  You're right you know and so they probably couldn't hear it [TS]

  but here I am like whining to my parents in that people like this think Trust me I know you can hear. [TS]

  But I can because I'm twelve years old and had two really annoying [TS]

  and I just could you just replace the power supply [TS]

  and just they never did anything about it we took a different place which is also taking a different Apple store. [TS]

  They did replace the power supply and it was silent and I was happy. [TS]

  But for awhile I was like as I was being gaslighted like I was going insane like no one else can hear this noise [TS]

  but you can hear it in my computer's on it was it was a mix of no one else can even see you insist that they are there [TS]

  and further you insist this is the problem. [TS]

  Well that's one of the benefits of getting used car because you know the B.M.W. [TS]

  I bought used and it had a couple of very very very minor. [TS]

  Next for lack of a better word [TS]

  and that has some amount of freedom associated with it because the car's already been making air quotes tainted [TS]

  and so if something appears it's it well OK it's already been nicked here and Nick they are [TS]

  and it's not the end of the earth and that's actually been to some degree a little bit [TS]

  and a little bit of a nicer experience now with that said I still parked in the furthest most corner of the parking lot [TS]

  like a jerk but at least I do it in only one spot away until you have kids [TS]

  and you get chocolate ground into your seats like I just found when I clean my car this weekend. [TS]

  I got new car like I was also kind of putting off getting a new car until after the kids were out of like big car [TS]

  backseat destroying car seats right. [TS]

  They don't like the little booster seats that you know they just raise you up to the left [TS]

  but he called the shoulder harness doesn't go across your neck right. [TS]

  And those don't strap in and it's like Oh this should be no problem here but food [TS]

  and other crap finds its way between the little booster and your actual seat [TS]

  and they get the ground into the fabric some They're trying to get that stuff out this weekend [TS]

  and then of course then put in their muddy dirty feet all over the back of your of the front seat of your car kids [TS]

  could destroy cars is no way around it so if you have that to look forward to yeah I'm looking forward to it. [TS]

  I mean the good news is I mean Mikey. [TS]

  It is like two point two five ish right now [TS]

  and you know he still was old enough to destroy the car he can't reach the back of your seat is not kicking you in the [TS]

  back while you're driving it right he still real he still rear facing [TS]

  but he could be getting to the point where he's kicking the seat back not your seat back together while he's able to do [TS]

  that but we don't notice and I have this like cover over it so you know it's no big deal. [TS]

  Yeah the covers those covers are expensive and I almost got them several times sort of like fifteen bucks. [TS]

  Well like the big fancy ones like you buy I like the big branded ones like the B.M.W. [TS]

  Branded [TS]

  or the hundred branded for what you don't get those little full back seat cover well there goes my brother has one like [TS]

  they the full they're fitted to your car they're super thick [TS]

  but I'm just always worried about something it caught between the cover and the seat [TS]

  and then that's just like you know recipe for disaster goes to John things are rubbing it again grinding it into the [TS]

  actual fabric the bra problem yeah. [TS]

  Without a tan lines all you people get talents not to to bring out how much you get into the cabin of the car [TS]

  and titles sorting my vote. [TS]

  It's not optional it's mandatory but that's fine because you know a problem I sort of anyway. [TS]

  Well see I actually like to have both like I was able to sort by most recent so I can troll through the most recent [TS]

  ones. Yeah and vote them up as like as the show goes on otherwise. [TS]

  Now we have a rich get richer problem I can make a like so hard to tensioner Chrome extension that just throws the J. [TS]

  Crew data tables at this table and gives some sort of how he's done. [TS]

  If one library sort of all you know worst like the arrows though I thought you might like the arrows of that I read [TS]

  this on was I going to put them in a circle around to wreck something from you know your name for a skinny little [TS]

  button my personal opinion was that what the carry on the thing I'd say it's like moving to magic empathy. [TS]

  I'm going to I'm going to make these damn errors like seventy two. [TS]

  New points why he's going to have the clicker is not bad the cougar is not the with of the Arrow it's a little bit [TS]

  wider but if you if you highlighted the quick area when the little cursor went over anyway [TS]

  and there was a line up with the numbers [TS]

  or less lines that of Caroline So like the one in thirteen is right above the age an eight whereas the age of eighty [TS]

  three only from for the complaint about I posted in the chat room in the beginning when I first loaded the page [TS]

  and there was no titles on it the the headings votes title author time said it was like titles [TS]

  but I don't often time like it was a sentence because they were all scores together I think [TS]

  and then there was no man with them anyway. U.I. Is hard. I'm fine. [TS]

  Must have some sort of client side issue because occasionally the two tables kind of decide to mate with each. [TS]

  Right now I have I have links in the titles table that kind of I don't know why they keep happening. [TS]

  I want to play with that. [TS]

  If you refresh the page it'll straighten itself out [TS]

  but I will definitely work on a fatal crash very first of all set up a bit. Stop it. [TS]

  You had your moment you're done that was kind of funny about it like that only with a good title. [TS]

  If you do that when you can use a semicolon of the title I don't like silicone. [TS]

  Well you can use a comma comma splices is Hauser a moving around of the sort with misheard. IOW what do you want. [TS]

  You only get to pick one. Now I know you have both you can have sorting and you just have manual refresh. [TS]

  That's really what these Web sockets. [TS]

  Now it's no longer a feel you've eliminated the whole point music website it's in the first place so I judge they're [TS]

  accused of setting out a preference that's what everyone tells me to do. [TS]

  Just had a setting for everything in the a pause button to pause a bit and then resume them later. [TS]

  You gotta figure out which of those things you want. I like it's always the but that is pretty good. [TS]

  Actually I do like that one I don't remember that was that I thought you said you did say it [TS]

  but I remember a lot of what I say. [TS]

  So we do the chat room records of four of them after me for my e-mail account for the listeners paying attention to [TS]

  what I say in different pod casts is currently one hundred twenty three unread [TS]

  but I answered about two hundred of them today. [TS]

  So I had crossed two thousand there's a couple of people on Twitter really tracking the order in which every quarter [TS]

  the various products as I've been on as I keep saying like oh I have three hundred messages in the know I have not [TS]

  heard of a message isn't the number keeps going up that time over him you're never answering answering any of them I [TS]

  guess. [TS]

  I mean the fact is they're coming in fast [TS]

  and I mean from them like my my my strategy was rather then spend like three days just answering email. [TS]

  I would instead read many of them read all Twitter and fix as many problems I possibly could by shipping update. [TS]

  Like so actually writing the update testing the update and shipping the update to Apple [TS]

  and then start tackling the email inbox so I can then tell people rather than I'm working on this. [TS]

  I can actually tell people I fix this you know and actually give them useful news and update isn't out yet [TS]

  but I can only say I fix this in the update that submitted to Apple [TS]

  and should be out soon like some people I meet will say that so I have a whole bunch of tech spender shortcuts [TS]

  and I'm going to the email now and some people get text pandered some people get a custom thing. [TS]

  Support person and yeah I know I'm I'm bring on support person but I wanted to get through the initial batch myself. [TS]

  I don't do it that time terms learning is keep but I am to give over the hands. [TS]

  Ever ever I don't want to while you hit send. Didn't the animals free ride it. [TS]

  How did you know you have you been watching a halt [TS]

  and catch fire whatever the hell that thing is called You know you don't talk about I know I was talking about that [TS]

  show looked terrible to me. It's amazing. [TS]

  I've no I've never I've not seen a single frame of it in any capacity and I've heard it's great. [TS]

  I've seen all the ads and I was like I know the show is about I know a lot of this history from reading it in books [TS]

  and they'll make it sound like it's like oh well the actual story is not enough [TS]

  and they're probably right Dexter isn't enough unless you're a nerd. [TS]

  So we can jazz it up [TS]

  and it's like no that's not that is not what computer work is like that's not what engineering is like. [TS]

  That's not what's exciting about it. Parable what isn't the story of Compaq a clean room cloning the I.B.M. P.C. [TS]

  Oh yeah there's T.V. Show movie. Yeah it's like a series or mini series. [TS]

  It's supposed to be like in the Mad Men vein of like oh it's a period piece is right in the reverse engineering thing [TS]

  that I mean it was dramatic and technically interesting it changed the industry [TS]

  but not in a way that anyone that regular people would be interested in so they have to make it all exciting [TS]

  and the nerds are super good looking and exciting and it's dramatic [TS]

  and everything happening in the dark instead of just like these pudgy you know pale losers with acne poring over [TS]

  technical manuals and programming because they don't want to see that [TS]

  but that's how it is actually done I don't want another sausage is actually made. Look I'm Val is actually pretty good. [TS]

  Now it is not. I finally want to I really enjoyed it. [TS]

  It is not well first of all we can all agree that is not representative of anything related to technology second. [TS]

  No [TS]

  but it's I think it's funny in a Mike Judge kind of way the way you make fun of Silicon Valley I think is really good [TS]

  and smart. [TS]

  Yeah but it's making fun of it's making fun of a caricature of Silicon Valley doesn't exist [TS]

  when there's plenty of legitimate things you can make fun of from the real Silicon Valley [TS]

  and that's what I like I think Beavis [TS]

  and Butthead was funny I think King of the hill is failure to pick two more Mike Judge properties this is probably [TS]

  funny but he obviously was more incisive. [TS]

  I would say this is like between Idiocracy [TS]

  and like a like a king of the hill in it it is it is a social commentary on this part of our culture. No question. [TS]

  And a pretty good one at that yes it is exaggerated and ridiculous but it is a pretty good social commentary [TS]

  and it's also pretty funny I don't know if the total exclusion of human females is supposed to be a commentary [TS]

  or just accidental. I believe that's intentional. [TS]

  It's hard to top of the case when it is there on a woman for two seconds [TS]

  but I'm pretty sure that's intentional as a commentary. [TS]

  That's I think it's pretty clear I'm just disappointed because you couldn't show there was a lot farther [TS]

  and a lot funnier than actually actually made fun of the way things really are because like they started with a [TS]

  character [TS]

  and they say in this character you're funny let's make fun of the caricature is like well yeah it's like a straw man [TS]

  you're making something. [TS]

  Nothing is ridiculous ever existed so of course easy to make fun of something that ridiculous the reality has plenty of [TS]

  things that are ridiculous about it as well but I guess and nuanced ways that people wouldn't understand [TS]

  or care about I don't know [TS]

  or you know like you probably can't base a lot of the stuff on real on real people for various legal reasons [TS]

  and I also think that my judge doesn't really know anything about computers which is a problem. [TS]

  Like he knows a lot about. [TS]

  He's real programmer I know [TS]

  but like it's not he's not this is not his thing is he's been a media person for ages he knows a lot about being a jerk [TS]

  you know teenage boys abuse and but it was really knows a lot about people in Texas. He's from Texas. [TS]

  Right so that worked out and he may work as a pro for a little while [TS]

  but adult lives essentially been said been making television programs so I think he does not like office spaces is [TS]

  actually based a lot on himself [TS]

  and the job the use of office space was I mean I think all the spaces good it didn't go too far over the top like I [TS]

  lumbered with a little bit over the top [TS]

  but everything else about it just like the office environment like it was a male didn't you know. [TS]

  So the other the holographic tube in the crazy headquarters they really have that is more over the top a space with an [TS]

  actual cubicle office building right. [TS]

  And there's enough ridiculous about an actual cubicle office building it here out of you don't need to make it more [TS]

  impressive than it actually is. Should be an incomparable Toba sort of like that. [TS]

  You could be the lone voice of dissent. [TS]

  I was some people so I think this is now still watching and I'm letting them pile twenty vocational washing up [TS]

  and it's only eight episodes in my twenty minute walk. [TS]

  I never like I want are never on so I'm not engaged in the story so to speak so if I just want a couple of gags here [TS]

  and then some funny gags. [TS]

  It's just like my judges other shows where it's not the best show in the world but it's a good show and it's funny. [TS]

  Like if you if you if you take it you know take everything with a grain of salt [TS]

  and if you look at it not as something that's trying to be accurate [TS]

  but some it's trying to be funny that's difficult for me with tech shows like that I like hoping catch fire again a [TS]

  minute. [TS]

  It's also getting better we used to like if I knew something about like the advertising business maybe Mad Men would [TS]

  bother me a lot more than it does right [TS]

  but I don't so that bother me is my whatever whatever liberties are taking with the advertising that is I'm willing to [TS]

  accept whereas any time you touch a topic that anytime you touch tech Basically it's like there's not a good history [TS]

  there in terms of interesting [TS]

  or accurate isn't a chanson especially like the older I question the I do find tech industry [TS]

  and I think a show that did tech write would be interesting but only to me obviously. [TS]

  If I was what should you be watching if this one is funnier than Silicon Valley and shorter and more interesting [TS]

  and doesn't involve technology. [TS]

  Sure than a twenty minute episodes [TS]

  and I guess of the same length so I just I think with reviewing to get through an episode of it I think the present [TS]

  hours and Showtime or H.B.O. All right but the kid so I'll talk to Thursday. [TS]

  Yeah editing schedule tomorrow I am going to the lake. Oh now they're tough. [TS]

  Your constant work schedule [TS]

  and I don't it's like there's like thirty times Instagram from like yeah actually two I'm going to leave because I have [TS]

  my back up royally and our friend up there is a massage therapist [TS]

  and is going to help me fix it all I had to rough looking like my schedule. Yeah I feel I'm going to. [TS]

  Like they got a massage tomorrow you got to do you know the lake is actually coming to me [TS]

  and I'm going to have a corn dog I'm taking out a corn dog. [TS]

  I will never look more like an Ohio boy than I do your dirt Beecham from your mud like a. [TS]

  Volatile Instagram now I don't think you can think of it in Instagram but it's a nicer window into people's lives. [TS]

  Yeah that was awesome. [TS]

  Wow We're all just saying you know I just bitter and jealous people that still talk about it later [TS]

  but up well down to it to me I read ourselves and admit that you were bitter jealous and older every day. [TS]

  Yeah but I have the secret glee of knowing what you're in for the council. [TS]