The Accidental Tech Podcast

79: Tip Ring Ring Sleeve

 

  Your new shows are good man Tom thanks. [TS]

  I haven't heard it yet so I don't have any complaints that might be the most Johnson [TS]

  or two something I've ever heard and I've said that phrase more than once in my life. [TS]

  Well you know you don't keep pushing the bar forward if you want to succeed. [TS]

  I haven't heard it yet so I don't have any complaints I don't even know where to go from here. [TS]

  So we have some follow up mostly about lightning cables and glore really [TS]

  and that begins with an image of a lightning cable with the reversible U.S.B. Connector. John Munch Tell me about this. [TS]

  Yeah this is confusing if you just hear it [TS]

  but it's talking about is a cable that you have now that you used to connect to your Lightning connector enabled I.O.'s [TS]

  device so it's got a little tiny connector one and it's got a regular plain old big fat U.S.B. [TS]

  Thing on the other end and they're not changing the Lightning connector [TS]

  and the rumor is on these rumor sites that they're going to change the U.S.B. [TS]

  and To be reversible and they do that by like if you look at a U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector head on it's like there's an empty part and a part filled of plastic sort of [TS]

  and this sort of takes the empty part draws a line to the center of the connector and then flipped it. [TS]

  So now there's an empty part on top I'm departing dollar bottom a plastic part of the middle [TS]

  and this type of connector is not like an Apple invention [TS]

  and it's not a new thing that's been around I don't know how many. [TS]

  For a couple years I think I've seen these how long have these things going around of us in them before never seen it I [TS]

  hadn't seen it before this but someone did point out quickly after this article came out [TS]

  and some other company actually has a patent on it and then they already sell cables like this. [TS]

  Yeah it was I think the reason I saw it was like back on hypercritical so long ago when I was talking about the U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector and how it was how it was externally symmetrical [TS]

  but internally asymmetrical everybody Simulink So look at this company selling these things that are externally [TS]

  and internally symmetrical and it still kind of work. [TS]

  So anyway the rumor is that Apple's going to dob to one of those I don't know how much credence to give this this rumor [TS]

  but when I think about it I'm wondering like. Will this make Will this make people's lives easier. [TS]

  Like you know obviously reversible is a good thing [TS]

  but if you have a collection of wires in your house some of them are reverse order and some of them aren't. [TS]

  I'm thinking it will probably still make things better especially if they put the logo on both sides of the reversible [TS]

  one for us for people don't know the Apple code for figuring out how to put your U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector in as long as it's not vertical and you're screwed. [TS]

  Good luck Is it a little logo faces up right and so they only put the logo on one side of the U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector is now on face up so this is the long on both sides. [TS]

  People will look at the connector [TS]

  and be reassured Apple people will be reassured that they're putting in the right way [TS]

  and it just so happens that there's a logo on both sides you know they were both wise [TS]

  and spent the last few years building up an immunity imperiled it'll work out good for everybody. [TS]

  He biased both got that can I get one if I get one that you both got not just not as funny. OK I got it all right. [TS]

  Anyway I think I can I think the average experience the average frustration experience will improve with this Now that [TS]

  said Is Apple going to do this they're going to pay for whatever stupid patent is on this. [TS]

  Does it decrease the reliability of the connectors I have no idea [TS]

  but I am cautiously optimistic about this if it does come to past I think I have to give it a tentative thumbs up which [TS]

  at this point it's not as high praise as you could give or would I would rather have that cool reversible U.S.B. [TS]

  You know whatever connector which is much smaller than these giant things [TS]

  and you know honestly I keep looking to the sides those MacBook it's like wow now that now that the Internet is gone [TS]

  the U.S.B. Is looking pretty fat on the edges right. [TS]

  But I've got a slim down to the skinny one [TS]

  and two quick comments on this new connector one in this new old US be reversed because your one is that I think it is [TS]

  a little bit less important that [TS]

  and be reversible because I have to imagine that many many conditions in many cases possibly the majority. [TS]

  I've been a lot of people leave that end of the cable plugged in pretty much all the time and they just have the. [TS]

  Other end like the end because of the phone that's the part that dangling [TS]

  and you connect the phone so if you for example if you have a charger that's always bought into the same spot on the [TS]

  same wall and you just have the cable down in there and now you put the phone into that [TS]

  or if you have a desktop computer or if you have a laptop doctor the same place every day [TS]

  and then you have the cable is always plugged into the laptop and in the phone [TS]

  and is open you know so it's a little bit less important although certainly if you can get it there it's better the [TS]

  other thing is if you look at this connector if you look at those pictures that that are in this article about you know [TS]

  these are looking at it head on. [TS]

  It looks like the way they did this was to leave less space for you know the part on the computer [TS]

  and that slides in to this enclosure so the like it is like the part they cut out to make the second side of the plug. [TS]

  Like they didn't it's it isn't the same size as the full size cutout on a one sided plug [TS]

  and so I fear that if you did this I don't know how the port is constructed I assume there are springy pins on the [TS]

  computer side of it that press against these terminals in here not the whole white thing [TS]

  or the whole plastic bit in the middle man move. [TS]

  I don't know if it's that that's a rigid it might actually might actually move I have no idea how this connector is [TS]

  made presumably like since it's Since this is an actual product in the market presumably it fits in all standard ports [TS]

  somehow does it fit with more wiggling does something move is it awkward [TS]

  or are there like weird non-compliant ports that it doesn't fit in I don't know. [TS]

  Right because she my concern would be that if it's rigid which it had probably is I don't I think making a move would [TS]

  be problematic if it's rigid then it looks like it might compress the spring pins in the port significantly more than a [TS]

  regular plug [TS]

  and possibly like loosen them up a little bit so that regular plugs might not work as well in that same port in the [TS]

  future. [TS]

  Yeah if Apple puts out presumably they will test it to death with every single one of their products [TS]

  and you know screw you if you try to plug it into your P.C. [TS]

  or Laptop or sell your charger from I think it's more likely Apple will skip. [TS]

  After And just wait until the reversal U.S.B. Plug is official is an official thing. [TS]

  When until Intel chipset support whatever version of U.S.B. [TS]

  That needs and then just move to that on other computers and call the problems off [TS]

  and you know put out a cable that has that I want and that's it. [TS]

  Yeah Sawyer that I know I have no way to rate this rumor is just some random thing in the picture tells you nothing so [TS]

  pointless. [TS]

  So speaking of lightning cables friend of the show Daniel jacket was sharing with us amongst others some shots of his [TS]

  frayed lightning cable [TS]

  and how it's always framing what is the little sleeve there the cuff there I was forget the name isn't rain relief. [TS]

  Yes thank you so outside of the strain relief cough. [TS]

  Guess what I got strained [TS]

  and split it seems like it's more of a strain to lay a cuff just move the string up the cable by a half inch [TS]

  and just put all the string at that point instead. [TS]

  Strain concentrator was the term Some people use the I think maybe after drying my daughter [TS]

  and so he wasn't the only one of us is a sin to be opposed to this [TS]

  and we'll put the link to the tween the show is he going to look at the picture. [TS]

  It's a lightning cable just underneath the strain relief the plastic that surround the wire is split open. [TS]

  Tons of people tweeted pictures of their own cables all split in the exact same spot. [TS]

  Like I mean obviously this is not a representative sample in the sense one person sees someone else's picture they say [TS]

  I have a mike but it's clear that this is where these things break [TS]

  and this is this is a problem with these connectors [TS]

  and one of the interesting theories I saw from somebody was that this might have to do is aside from just a bad strain [TS]

  really design might have to do with all of the harmful chemicals that Apple has been trying to take out of its [TS]

  manufactured products I guess that the early valve I can think of is [TS]

  when they tried to remove lead from all their solder joints which has the potential to make the solder joints weaker [TS]

  until they figured out how to do without the lead [TS]

  and there's some toxic chemical that someone in the chat room will look up [TS]

  and paste sometime later in the show that they used to use for the plastics that made them sort of more resilient [TS]

  and you know they didn't crack they would bend over never but it was a. [TS]

  A bad chemical and had bad environmental effects. [TS]

  So they changed to using plastics without that chemical [TS]

  and it was like a transition period where the headphones felt like some of the terracing P.V.C. [TS]

  I don't know but like the headphones felt kind of weird [TS]

  and like that you take them a while to figure out like we could use what everyone else uses that makes the best product [TS]

  but if it's environmentally unfriendly we had to figure out a way to do it without that chemical. [TS]

  So that's one possible theory the other theory that you know the bad strain relief that it's not actually gradually [TS]

  decreasing the strain of the bin but rather saying OK well the part of the sleeve isn't going to bend at all [TS]

  and will concentrate all the bending right after it and that's where your thing will split. [TS]

  You know so I saw you know a million of these pictures like you were saying [TS]

  and I can't remember not one lightning cable that I've had that has broken in any way. [TS]

  I have a handful of first party ones I have a couple of Amazon once I don't really care for because the lightning end [TS]

  is kind of fat and I have a handful Monoprice ones which I actually quite like [TS]

  and not a one of probably ten lightning cables that I have has frayed in any herb or split [TS]

  or what have you in any of these ways and I don't know if maybe it's because I have so many [TS]

  and I'm splitting my time between all these different cables. [TS]

  I don't know if I treat them better I doubt that I sincerely doubt that I don't know what it is maybe I just got the [TS]

  magic touch [TS]

  but I don't have this problem I did with a thirty pin connector I tore through almost all my thirty can connectors [TS]

  but I have not had an issue with lightning cable thus far and so I'm sure on the weirdo not everyone else [TS]

  but man I was looking at everyone else thinking That's weird man. [TS]

  Usage definitely is a factor because I have never broken a thirty pane connector or a lightning connector like [TS]

  and you know I had tons of they're all over the house they're still all here right. [TS]

  I've never broken any of them and it's not just dumb luck [TS]

  and I'm not like I've had too many cables for this to be like I just got lucky and it never got one that failed [TS]

  and these are super older into oil rigs. [TS]

  No i Pod in the attic with the cable for the very problems [TS]

  but that's not to say that it's these people's fault because it's clear that people are going to use these devices in a [TS]

  way that breaks them and it's Apple's job to make sure they don't break when people use them the way they use them. [TS]

  What are those people doing differently than I am doing probably pulling them out by the cable. Like that's my guess. [TS]

  I do that I do that all the time now pulling them out on an angle like you know I baby my hardware early on so it most [TS]

  people don't [TS]

  and so you know it's not again this is not these people's fault as Apple's You help to make a product that withstand [TS]

  normal use normal wear and tear [TS]

  and the lighting cable seem to have a weakness for Normally all these people are abusing their all these people are [TS]

  don't have like cats [TS]

  or children yanking them out it's just that they are not you know carefully pulling the connector out exactly [TS]

  perpendicular to the surface of the phone [TS]

  and all this crazy crap that people who are you know you know because of the hardware do so I think this is something [TS]

  that Apple should address [TS]

  and I really hope it's not another one of the situations where it's like you know we could make a more robust strain [TS]

  relief but that would require those little ribs originals are ugly and it looks so nice [TS]

  when we just have a little sleeve smooth and it's only a little bit wider than the cable. [TS]

  So I really hope that's not the case and I hope they do improve cable [TS]

  and by the way a lot of people in that same thread [TS]

  and letter are saying if you have a busted lighting cable that you just used in a normal way [TS]

  but broke there is some chance that you could go into an Apple store and just get a new one for free. [TS]

  How to how that works exactly. [TS]

  Some people said I had to make a Genius Bar appointment maybe just look sympathetic and are nice [TS]

  and say boy I just got this phone a couple months ago [TS]

  and I've really just been using it normally in a sting Broca's any chance you can get me a new cable bubble bloggers [TS]

  the cables are ridiculously expensive. [TS]

  You know one of the thirty bucks twenty I still feel like that's way high for for you know. [TS]

  Anyway the point is occasional I don't think this is an apple policy it's not like it's like a warranty with a replace [TS]

  them forever when they're broken it's not like an L Being type thing but if you were nice [TS]

  and you talk to some of the Genius Bar on the. One maybe you get a new connector in this. [TS]

  I tell everybody this is like the situation where it's not like you can guarantee them they're going to get nice free [TS]

  stuff from Apple. Maybe they will maybe they won't but enough people do that you say it's worth a try. [TS]

  Go in there be pleasant be nice explain the situation [TS]

  and I swear I may do a new cable if you don't don't be all angry that I read on the internet I'm supposed to get a new [TS]

  cable and I don't think so but I give it a try. [TS]

  All right and speaking of cables Let's talk about springy pants shall we. [TS]

  And John I presumed it was you to put this in the show notes. [TS]

  Last week we talked about where the springy bits on the cable where the parts that we just talked about this week where [TS]

  the parts that move are are they in the cable or are they in the connector [TS]

  and cable is easier to replace than than the thing that the connector inside your phone or your computer or whatever [TS]

  and a lot of people pointed out in reaction to the last show that there is one very popular kind of connector where the [TS]

  springy bit is inside the port [TS]

  and that's the regular headphone jack one of that market you know eighth inch they called you think T.R.S. [TS]

  Jack or in the i Phone T R R S Well I don't know what any of that means [TS]

  but presumably somebody does because Marco tip ring sleave it's you know like the segments on the plug to bring sleeve [TS]

  is the regular stereo one [TS]

  and then tip ring ring sleeve is the one that has the extra pin for the headphone thing for the clicker. [TS]

  So it doesn't want to contact them as a ring entering and then what is the sleeve party at the bottom part [TS]

  but the long part. [TS]

  That's just another point along the the little cylinder that goes [TS]

  and yet it's how many you know tempering sleeve has three conductors left right and ground shared [TS]

  and then differing rings leave has a left right ground here in the remote doesn't it seem like both of the rings are [TS]

  also part of the sleeve. [TS]

  Anyway whatever semantics so that connectors been around forever obviously maybe not so obviously you might say well [TS]

  it's been around forever that has a springy bit inside behavior obviously putting a spring inside the connector is not [TS]

  a death sentence for a connector [TS]

  but then the counter to that is well how many people have a headphone jack on some device they've had. [TS]

  For a long time that's wanking now like that doesn't someone get a twist a little connector inside it sometimes it [TS]

  doesn't stay in order or perhaps you have a circa twenty eleven highrise [TS]

  and declare MacBook Pro where you've plugged a headphone jack your headphone set into it just a handful of times [TS]

  and then the sensor or something got stuck between that in the infra red line out there may be fine [TS]

  and thank you thank you. [TS]

  The optical line in any way to the point is I had to get a motherboard replaced in order to get that fixed. [TS]

  Thankfully under warranty because something inside the headphone connector got totally out of whack [TS]

  and refused to play via headphones [TS]

  or via the system speakers in my experience the apple headphone jacks are very very stiff like if they're going to get [TS]

  loose over time. [TS]

  Maybe they will maybe to spring a bit loose but [TS]

  when you plug especially if you plug an apple headphone jack into an Apple i was device that is a little quick [TS]

  and there it is not just a kind of feel secure to me. [TS]

  Now maybe over time that will get loose [TS]

  but especially with devices like the ticking time bomb in every I was devices the batteries eventually the batteries [TS]

  going to be useless. [TS]

  Probably long before any of your ports go bad you can get the battery replaced [TS]

  but then by that point it would be like me taking my second gentle touch and go Well the battery in my second [TS]

  and i Pod touch is fried I think I'd replace Ron you know dollars but then what do I have I have a second [TS]

  and i Pod Touch running lifeforce for so it's pointless but I write up everyone's Internet examples I thought [TS]

  but I just bring it up you know if they stop making the i Pod touch or if they just stop updating it ever again. [TS]

  You're going to be that guy because you going to refuse to get an i Phone I want to you think I'm going to use like i [TS]

  OS seven when I was twelve without no of course not. [TS]

  If you'll turn to buy an i Phone I'll find a way [TS]

  and I will have a little bit more follow ups let's power through real quickly. Local boys Sam Davies had. [TS]

  Feedback for us. [TS]

  So last week we talked [TS]

  and talked about using viral case he was debating whether he should sign up for the horizon thing where they get a [TS]

  search warrant child. [TS]

  Let me let me quickly interrupt and say I did I did get my seventy five seventy five symmetric internets [TS]

  and I have not yet had to sell sprouts. So all seems well in the world. [TS]

  KERRY Well it's not here yet but you say they'll come to a comfort but I was talking about how you can use your eyes [TS]

  and I speak [TS]

  and not use any of their crap their you know like not using their router not having the money their cable boxes in your [TS]

  house not doing any of their on demand stuff not downloading their software [TS]

  and I said the only thing I had left that I was still using for Rossum is the N. S. Because if I used Google the N.S.A. [TS]

  I didn't get it didn't the content delivery networks didn't know where I was geographically [TS]

  and would connect me to a crappier server instead of the ones that are nearby. So that's why I was still using the U.S. [TS]

  but I hated it because if you type in my name that you know you typo it [TS]

  or whatever you get sent to some stupid virus and landing page with ads all over it. [TS]

  And Sam Davies [TS]

  and a couple other people send sent in a link to a page on the file size saying hey if you don't like that spammy [TS]

  D.M.'s redirection here's what you can do to change it and soon saw the page. I realized I've done this before. [TS]

  I've been to this page and I did it and it's basically just you change your IP change the last digit of your D.N.A. [TS]

  As addresses from twelve to fourteen. The first three you know are they called. [TS]

  I'm not your first three Act that are going to be different for everybody is the whole point. [TS]

  You have different in a service depending where you are geographically [TS]

  but if you just change a twelve to fourteen you will get redirected. [TS]

  And I did that years ago and I just must've forgotten about it and like in one of the OAS upgrades [TS]

  or maybe during the time when I changed to Google the N S I changed it back. [TS]

  So thank you Sam Dave is going to fuel for reminding me because I'm an old man forget things to retain my D.M.'s to be [TS]

  the non project one all right. Console sales that we I guess didn't get this one hundred percent correct. [TS]

  Well it's just it's another. [TS]

  Would someone threw up in a tweet that I thought was interesting because if you talk about how how they're stuck on a [TS]

  P.S. For doing a heap thing they're doing fine and Jeff I want to say for this cutie. [TS]

  It's what I was going to say and Jeff Kelly says U.S. Sales for X. [TS]

  Box One and P S four are up eighty percent compared to the first nine months sales of the last generation X. [TS]

  By three sixty [TS]

  and P S three so not only is the P S four selling faster than the P S three is not just a little bit faster than eighty [TS]

  percent faster and the X. Box One is selling faster than X. [TS]

  By three sixty one so this generation is not just doing OK And you know growth wise the take was faster for this [TS]

  generation than it was for the previous ones so that was I was surprised that I knew the B.S. [TS]

  What was in there in the P S three I figured the X. [TS]

  Box one and next like three sixty were may be neck and neck [TS]

  but it seems like both councils are off to a pretty good start next month [TS]

  and then finally we enter the pronunciation section to follow up [TS]

  and we have the first is regarding the thing that Tivo is using that isn't flash that is spelled H A X O hover. [TS]

  Well apparently the correct pronunciation for that as per high endian is hex not hack C. [TS]

  Which is I believe what all of us agreed it probably was. I went for Hicks or hacks. [TS]

  Those are my two guesses but I wouldn't out of gas tax because that makes no sense [TS]

  but there you go we have a new sponsor this week it is. Casper this is Casper sleep dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  That's Casper like the ghost Casper sleep dot com sledge A.T.P. [TS]

  This is pretty cool so it's a mattress and there on my mattress vendor [TS]

  and the way they do it is I think worth noting I think this is something really special here so Casper sells a premium [TS]

  mattress for a fraction of the price of most premium mattresses the mattress industry has inherently force customers [TS]

  into paying notoriously high markups and you know this if you ever gone to you know buy a man. [TS]

  I hope at least some of you have bought a mattress in your life it is quite useful to have a mattress you sleep usually [TS]

  every day so it's nice to get a good mattress in my opinion and I've always told people you know when you [TS]

  when you want to get a mattress get a really good one because how many times you know I could buy a mattress you know [TS]

  maybe three [TS]

  or four maybe you know not not a lot of times in your life you're going to a mattress so Casper is revolutionising the [TS]

  mattress industry by cutting the cost of dealing with the resellers and showrooms [TS]

  and passing that savings directly to the consumer they're selling direct on their site. [TS]

  Now one of the ways they can do this is because their mattresses are really cool they actually like bunks down they [TS]

  come in a box like a regular size box and then you take it out [TS]

  and it basically like expands into your regular mattress. Let me let me stop you there. [TS]

  So so I got a Casper they were nice enough to send me a mattress and it did come in this. [TS]

  I got a full size mattress [TS]

  and it came in a reasonably sized box I'm not going to try to rattle off dimensions because if I do it'll be an [TS]

  imperial units than all the metric people are going to yell at me suffice to say it was a normal sized part what is [TS]

  usually one of the mantras delivered it has to come on a furniture truck right you know it's way too big for like [TS]

  U.P.S. and Fedex to want to deliver. [TS]

  Right exactly this is not the case in fact it actually accidentally got delivered to my neighbor's house [TS]

  and he single handedly like dragged the box over to our house and was not a sweaty disgusting mass one when he arrived. [TS]

  So anyway so we take the mattress out of the box and it has this neat little card with with meat diagrams [TS]

  and I think acceptable to have typographic setting up your castle. So step one your Casper's arrived Well yes. [TS]

  Step two Make sure don't pack your Caspar in the room a belongs. [TS]

  Step Three use a handy sharp unsteady blade to unbind your Casper start in the dot [TS]

  and there's little dot on the packaging a step for unfurling or Casper [TS]

  and cut open cut open the remaining plastic wrap. Here it is. [TS]

  Sigh with relief and I saw this and I was like Are you kidding me. [TS]

  And then sure enough I open this thing and I guess because you were like you're saying it's vacuum wrapped [TS]

  or whatever in so it's like sucking in. [TS]

  All this air it sounded like it was sighing with relief it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. [TS]

  So that is not a lie it is really trippy but really cool. [TS]

  And these mattresses so they're made of how they describe it it's an interesting combination. [TS]

  It's they call it just the right sink and just the right balance. [TS]

  So you know I get sinks down as you said but you know it can bounce back up. [TS]

  They use a combination of latex foam and memory foam. [TS]

  They combine these two things together for basically the best of both. They call it better nights and brighter days. [TS]

  I call a good mattress and what you get for this you know this is this is a premium mattress and you know [TS]

  when I bought a premium mattress about ten years ago it cost about seven hundred dollars for a queen size. [TS]

  These mattresses started just five hundred dollars for twins size [TS]

  and the prices go up very reasonably Queen is a fifty nine fifty for King. [TS]

  I mean these are really really great prices for this quality mattress this is you know roughly I would say roughly half [TS]

  of what you'd be likely to pay at like a sleepy their mattress store kind of thing. [TS]

  So this I mean this is really quite something. [TS]

  There's it's also a very you know I would worry how do you buy a mattress without going and lying on it in a store. [TS]

  Well buy a cat or mattress is completely risk free they have free delivery and free returns within one hundred days. [TS]

  So you can buy this thing and tried out for three months and then decide whether you like it or not. [TS]

  Really quite quite awesome it's that simple. [TS]

  You know because when you go to when you go to the show room you're lying on it for a couple of minutes [TS]

  and there's some guy standing over you with like you know a clipboard and you know that for sure [TS]

  and it's it's like every stereotype of used car sales places you know it's that's how mattress servers usually are [TS]

  and you know you can actually just take this thing order it delivered in a tiny box let it sight of relief in your [TS]

  house and then try for three months and you know they have this hundred day passes that's fantastic. [TS]

  They understand the importance of trying it out in your own home actually sleeping on [TS]

  or actually sitting on it for more than one night and really getting in. [TS]

  Really in a good feel so Casey what you think right. [TS]

  So last night Aaron and I went into the into the bedroom that the castle and relax [TS]

  and we had a night's sleep on that mattress [TS]

  and I quite liked it I am not a fan of memory foam despite what most people think I actually do everyone loves memory [TS]

  foam. [TS]

  I don't care for it but this mattress was just the right balance [TS]

  and I wouldn't be making a big deal out of this if I didn't think it was just the right balance of a little bit of foam [TS]

  like Marco was saying but not so much that it felt like synthetic and weird. [TS]

  So yeah so I really liked it I definitely recommend it. [TS]

  They're really good mattresses and just the unboxing experience is pretty neat if nothing else [TS]

  but if they are really good mattresses as well. Yeah. [TS]

  From what I understand if you're if you're a mattress geek from what I understand one of the biggest benefits of this [TS]

  over pure memory foam is that it doesn't have the the hotness effect right as like a lot of people don't like memory [TS]

  foam to kind of make them feel hot and this supposedly dramatically reduces that or eliminate that problem anyway. [TS]

  So go to Casper sleep dot com slash A.T.P. That's C A S P E R sleep dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  If you're asked for a promo code or any point on the check out use promote code A.T.P. [TS]

  and These are made in the USA [TS]

  and they do cool things are normally they have this thing where if they have a referral program where if you refer [TS]

  friend to Casper they send you a fifty dollar gift card [TS]

  and they give the friend fifty dollars off their mattress instead of taking gift cards. [TS]

  We are donating our fifty dollars to Katie's charity of choice for every bed sold they've set this up so that the city [TS]

  of us goes to a good cause. So if you buy if you are code to get fifty bucks off. [TS]

  You could get fifty bucks off and then fifty bucks will go towards that cause. [TS]

  So once again check out Casper sleep dot com slash A.T.P. This seems pretty cool. [TS]

  I think the world you know the world needs something like this you know this is met by a mattress [TS]

  and person is so annoying and yet this is this is pretty. [TS]

  All I gotta say thanks a lot once again to Casper for sponsoring the show. [TS]

  So what are we talking about tonight once already. I Tunes We don't do we want to talk about open source. [TS]

  You got anything to the topic file that you just know you've those old ones in there. It's late August. [TS]

  Nothing is happening. No one does anything in the tech industry in late August. [TS]

  No there's a lot of crappy stuff happening in the world [TS]

  but you know for the stuff that we need to talk about on the show nothing is happening. We could get political power. [TS]

  Honestly I'm exhausted from it. [TS]

  I like I can't take it anymore I'm just so exhausted from it you know it's this is this is one of the one of those [TS]

  times where I am happy to talk about anything else [TS]

  and I'm happy I'm happy to immerse myself in anything else besides current events for this two hours this is a topic [TS]

  that Casey should address on his other show where he talks about his feelings that I have a listen to part of the [TS]

  exhaustion is like you know that aspect of acknowledging one is it's good that we're in touch you know in real time at [TS]

  these events that we are care about because we see we see them by you know who we follow on Twitter [TS]

  and stuff like that or whose blogs who read or whatever [TS]

  but it can be exhausting in that at a certain point you just start to feel overwhelmed with whatever the issue of the [TS]

  day happens to be if you have it flooding into you on all possible streams that you consume content on the net. [TS]

  It can it can be tiring I actually unfollowed some people during this whole recent flare up not because I disagree with [TS]

  them or because you know like anything bad is just typical you know I try. [TS]

  I want to read my whole Twitter stream and if you just becomes too much and I feel like I was getting anxious [TS]

  and nothing you have is you know temporary temporary or possibly permanent [TS]

  and follow a people who I totally agree with on whatever issue they're playing about is just is too much you know. [TS]

  So Marco you'll notice that John doesn't follow you anymore. Marco is not a high volume tweeter on this topic. [TS]

  Not even I was I was a high volume retreat or I was. [TS]

  Most every tweet England flight you reach we have like three things what you can eat like three things an hour every [TS]

  night for the last week. [TS]

  Well I know three an hour is low volume compared to some of the tweeting going Fleishman onions if you follow him it's [TS]

  like I know I know I had done fog went to I THOUGHT SOMETHING ABOUT IT WILL TAKE A He was like I will I will [TS]

  and every following him because I have unfollowed me fog Well maybe I'm just one of those things you have to do a [TS]

  couple times a person or you have to unfold when Fleischmann and then maybe you fall again and then you don't fall [TS]

  and you know he told he tells people go to the casino that he tweets way more than most people can kind of read that [TS]

  the other day I actually now I'm totally crossing over [TS]

  but the other day I abandoned being a completionist on Twitter because I had like four hundred tweets from a not very [TS]

  long amount of time and I just went all the way to the top and it was a very traumatic experience for me [TS]

  but I'm glad that I've done it. I learned a lot that I think that means I went crazy right. [TS]

  Yeah I guess so because you're still completionist right. [TS]

  Yep I mean I am ninety nine percent of the time but I was gone for like two hours [TS]

  and suddenly I had hundreds of tweets waiting for me [TS]

  and I was like screw this I have my problem is my favorite Twitter client has a limit on how far back you can go on the [TS]

  timeline so if I fall very far behind on a busy day I have to switch to my second favorite Twitter client to get back [TS]

  far enough on my segment everyone doesn't have a unified timeline addressing think about either of these two different [TS]

  things. Far back and like mentally reenter leave them in chronological order. [TS]

  People use these clients that are I don't understand why you are unquestionably one of the smartest man I've ever met [TS]

  have such cognitive difficulties interleaving these two things [TS]

  or even why do you even need them interleaved who cares because it's a running conversation it's a tough it's a time [TS]

  honored sequence of messages that they're not random They're not two separate streamed It's one thing one person says [TS]

  one thing other person does not think just because one person put an ad in front of his message it somehow is in a [TS]

  different timeline no make any sense that everyone should use unified time as well. [TS]

  The you know point home and makes sense if you're a completionist always. [TS]

  But like for me like I used to be doesn't have this feature which sounds like it's probably your secondary client. [TS]

  You sleep because overall I like it more [TS]

  but like I don't need a unified timeline because I'm not a completion as I used to be and it took way too much time [TS]

  and now I can't do it anymore. [TS]

  But even even if you're not a completionist when you're skimming though it's better to skimming unified Tang's [TS]

  when you said one thing to skim and you can you can sort of see the flow of the conversation. [TS]

  These two people bantering back and forth interspersed with random people mentioning them [TS]

  or like I mean just I just think it's easier overall But anyway whatever. [TS]

  Well yeah but I am a completionist for my mentions just not from my public timeline [TS]

  but people much at a point I do want to talk about the things Twitter is doing by messing with your timeline. [TS]

  I haven't seen it have any have any of you seen it. [TS]

  I haven't because none of us I mean what is there to really say it's probably self-serving for Twitter it pisses off [TS]

  all the long time. [TS]

  Well I explain my Explain what it is first so Twitter's decided that if you favorite something [TS]

  and Twitter believes it to be rare I'm sorry if somebody else favorites something [TS]

  and Twitter decides that that's relevant to you for whatever reason that they will show that favor in your timeline [TS]

  something of an example so John favorite some weird thing that has to do with video games [TS]

  and for whatever reason I am interested in video games. [TS]

  According to Twitter that favorite that John gave to someone I may or may not follow could appear in my timeline [TS]

  and grow suddenly Twitter is taking control of your timeline which is a very Facebook a thing to do whereas as many [TS]

  people have pointed out Twitter in the past up until this change has been more [TS]

  or less allowing you to control your own timeline [TS]

  and this is doubly true third party clients where they're not doing like sponsored tweets and stuff like that [TS]

  or at least not yet. So the more pairs. [TS]

  It's where users are really up in arms about this [TS]

  but I don't I mean it makes sense that Twitter is doing this because it's completely self-serving. [TS]

  It makes sense that I don't like it because I'm completely self-serving and I'm either going to deal with it [TS]

  when it affects me and tweet pot or not and I mean I don't see that there's that much debate here. [TS]

  Well it's it's a crappy thing to do though and you know it matters a lot because we're locked in. [TS]

  So like you know so there's two problems here. Number one is that Twitter has now ruined favorites. [TS]

  Basically they now like favorite favoring a tweet used to be a way that you could passively [TS]

  and very subtly give someone some slight positive feedback that they might see and that [TS]

  and that was that was basically it. [TS]

  So I think that all sorts of stuff that you know like Yeah stuff I wouldn't read tweet necessarily because I wouldn't [TS]

  want to necessarily Repos to people who follow me. But still it's like you know a nice quick pass a feedback thing. [TS]

  So now they've added more weight to that now. [TS]

  Favorites of always been kind of broken because it was always very hard to view who favored your tweets [TS]

  and to be notified of everything like in any kind of scale so it wasn't necessarily you know a great system at first [TS]

  but the way they've quote fixed it now is kind of redundant because they have read tweeting [TS]

  and so now they've they've made favorites basically act like three tweets in many places [TS]

  and they haven't said a further know on their on their page about how they how they're now running our timelines I [TS]

  don't think they've said it will work this way exactly forever. [TS]

  I think they've just said we're going to start inserting things in your timeline that might be relevant [TS]

  and you know this is one of the ways they might determine what to insert is what's been favored by by the people [TS]

  but I would expect it always work that way [TS]

  or for that to be the only reason to call it to cause things to appear in a timeline that people don't fall. [TS]

  The thing is you know like Facebook the what Facebook has done with their timeline has basically made it so that they [TS]

  by default hide almost everything from you and you know if you say you have ten thousand people who like your pay. [TS]

  I'm going to Facebook or whatever [TS]

  and if you post something on your timeline on your wall I don't know how i'm sorry i'm not a Facebook user really so I [TS]

  don't I don't really know how most of these terms work and stuff. [TS]

  Basically only a very small percentage of the people who have expressed interest in seeing everything you post will [TS]

  actually see that and then you can pay Facebook to increase that percentage. [TS]

  But it's it's really a pretty scary system [TS]

  and it frustrates a lot of people you know it frustrates companies who have made Facebook pages because that's where [TS]

  people are [TS]

  and then all of a sudden like their traffic to their page drops to nothing because they don't pay Facebook for for ads [TS]

  to reach the people who have already said they want to be reached so that you know that's like imagine a Twitter. [TS]

  Imagine like if your tweets were only shown to ten percent your followers but the people chose to follow you [TS]

  but your tweets are only showing ten percent of them unless you do an Iran's program [TS]

  and you know start paying them for every person you follow that's what Facebook does. [TS]

  That's that Facebook's current business model and so that's that's crappy for Facebook and [TS]

  and you know doesn't affect most of us to most of us are Twitter people a new way. [TS]

  So Twitter doing this is is breaking the way the timeline works now they already have broken it with ads [TS]

  and most of us use third party clients have never seen the Twitter ads because they don't show in their party clients [TS]

  yet and there's no guarantee they ever will. [TS]

  Twitter might choose not to just be in control like what the ads can do give them like the rich experiences that the [TS]

  cars like somebody posted earlier today that you can like you know build your new Acura. [TS]

  Within this Twitter cart and all this crap you know that because people want to engage with brands [TS]

  and what Twitter is doing here is breaking the medium potentially and you can say well maybe they'll do it tastefully. [TS]

  And that's true maybe they will. [TS]

  Maybe Twitter's leadership will have some idea of why their product is so good and what's so good about it [TS]

  and why people like it and what's so important about it and maybe they'll do something that is best for the product [TS]

  and the users. [TS]

  However I'm not holding my breath on that because their record in those departments is pretty poor so far the problem [TS]

  with with Twitter doing this is that all of us geeks [TS]

  and a whole lot of non geeks have decided over the last few years that Twitter is this new medium where we get all of [TS]

  our news and many people have replaced R.S.S. [TS]

  With Twitter and many other ways to get news and discuss things with Twitter. Imagine if R.S.S. [TS]

  Was centrally controlled by one private company or public company whatever by one company and every R.S.S. [TS]

  Client in the world all of a sudden started inserting things you didn't subscribe to [TS]

  and you couldn't opt out of that and you couldn't stop that. That would make the entire medium of R.S.S. [TS]

  Kind of weirder and not as useful to you [TS]

  and potentially potentially bad long term to actually you know kill it long term. [TS]

  Certainly it would change it in a way that probably is not for the better. [TS]

  And you'd have no recourse because the entire media is controlled as one company well that's what Twitter is Twitter is [TS]

  what should be a public open standard but by by various coincidences and actions [TS]

  and tech tentacle realities social realities that cetera it is a whole new medium. [TS]

  But it's just one company controlling it there is no open center for Twitter than there are [TS]

  and whatever hope there was of having you know everything. Twitter killed that years ago. [TS]

  So what they're doing is breaking a very important medium [TS]

  and this should be a wake up call to all of us especially the geeks who listen to the show and us who are those geeks. [TS]

  This should be a call to all of us to to see how important it is to build open standards instead of trying to let one [TS]

  company construct so much of their power [TS]

  and not to trust these big companies who've been Twitter started out it was geeky [TS]

  and friendly interest people with one syllable names running everything [TS]

  and they were called they were in California everything's going to be great are going to change the world. [TS]

  Well you know what they did change the world they took it off them selves and now they have complete control over [TS]

  and it's big. [TS]

  Run by a bunch of people who don't necessarily fit the original attitude of the founders and the founders [TS]

  and mostly all checked out. So and this is what happens. Companies move on people leave like we we let this happen. [TS]

  We can we let this entire monster grow. We helped it grow. We're all still using and I'm still using it. [TS]

  I'm going to keep using it because that's where all the people are and that's the one place I can reach them. [TS]

  You know the people who actually want to reach so we let this happen [TS]

  and I think we need to be very careful in the future you know not to assume that these these companies seem like they [TS]

  have all of our best interest in mind always will because you see time after time that they don't anyway so that's why [TS]

  I think the new timeline. [TS]

  John I was his head of [TS]

  when it happened like it made me think again oh you know where do we go if this goes south like it after that is gone [TS]

  and tent is not like we went through this once when they were doing a bunch of things that we all hated [TS]

  and then a couple things spring up to try to replace it and none of those really worked out [TS]

  but it's like because if they went full Facebook on this like we would I don't know if we would leave [TS]

  but I would be desperately looking for someplace else to go because all I need is like my little circle of people to be [TS]

  there [TS]

  and you know there's a reason I went after that like I'm always looking for alternatives is obviously I like a hostile [TS]

  environment for people like us now. [TS]

  They've been walking this line where it's like well the people who really care about this are just it's just people [TS]

  like us are people who are seeing the show it's such a small percentage in the grand scheme of things so we'll throw [TS]

  you a bone and give you this token system to the third party client third party clients won't have ads [TS]

  and you won't get the new features the US don't care about that either [TS]

  and the same thing with this that they can continue to sort of walk that tightrope [TS]

  and say we're going to do all this Facebook crap to everyone else but we won't do to third party clients. [TS]

  We're not going to tell you we're not going to do we're not going to promise anything [TS]

  but we just basically just won't do it like this will be their policy silently. Don't screw up the timeline at least. [TS]

  Small group of of not just technicians who nevertheless might have you know disproportionate influence over over [TS]

  whatever or might have the wherewithal to go and make something else right so don't anger them. [TS]

  Don't tell them you're not angry in them on purpose to leave the fear [TS]

  and uncertainty there about about what's going on. [TS]

  But really you know don't stir the pot too much you just kind of ignore them leave them off in the corner [TS]

  and some of the strategies are working like they've been doing I'm not just things that people use the official Twitter [TS]

  client which is like everybody else but us and I guess cable Sasser sorry cable I don't know why does he like that [TS]

  but he said about this too. [TS]

  And then just kind of Don't rile up the hornet's nest that is those techno ads who might try to go elsewhere. [TS]

  But yeah no I don't I don't like I don't like this at all I hope it doesn't happen to me [TS]

  and if it does start happening I don't know what I would do. [TS]

  Like it takes a pretty big critical mass of people to make someplace else viable and I have done that didn't get it. [TS]

  Yeah and I think that is still strictly speaking around [TS]

  but certainly no one that I am familiar with it still uses it as far as I'm aware. [TS]

  One thing I wanted to ask each of you guys is how do you use favorites today. [TS]

  So as an example I tend to come down in the Marco camp where if somebody does something that I want to kind of give a [TS]

  kind of quiet nod of approval to I'll typically do a favorite [TS]

  or perhaps it's someone usually guy English makes a joke at my expense [TS]

  but I want him to understand that I think it's funny and we're cool bro. [TS]

  Favorite [TS]

  but there are plenty of other ways that you could use favorites like a lot of people for example tend to use it for [TS]

  bookmarking So Marco you kind of covered how you do it John what do you do for favorites how do you what purpose do [TS]

  they serve in your world as one tell you that I still am using after I met you know I still have a running every day. [TS]

  All religions gays and people post something there [TS]

  and I see it I don't really post anything there may be our plight it's all runs in a while but I still run it. [TS]

  I'll probably run it. Like the servers don't work anymore I don't know if a tree falls in the moon. [TS]

  I mean right now it's really low traffic I got it I can take it like twice a day and be all caught up. [TS]

  I think it's like two posts in the past two days in my timeline I was of her favorites I favorite I favored thing [TS]

  things as a way to you know I like as the Little same reason I reply to people a thumbs up is like a little social [TS]

  thing trying to say I approve of what you have done here you've made a good joke that made me laugh you said something [TS]

  clever you said something I thought was insightful I could use it in that capacity which I think is like that supposed [TS]

  to be the primary capacity [TS]

  and the other way I use it is I want to find this tweet later so like a bookmark so favorite it so that [TS]

  when I say Where the hell was that Twitter search still sucks balls [TS]

  and like Google you have that you know you Google site Twitter dot com type in some words [TS]

  or using your I'll try to now like it's terrible. [TS]

  So favorite is my way of saying I don't have time to deal with this tweet now [TS]

  but either like I'm going to put it in the A.T.P. [TS]

  Show knows [TS]

  or it's something that I want to think about a write later it's almost ten thing that a lot of kind of my notes my [TS]

  favorite is a bookmark [TS]

  and I don't have so many favorites during the day that it's hard to go through them you know I do like a handful of [TS]

  they were today it was easy for me to find old stuff. [TS]

  Fair enough I trying to quickly figure out how many favorites we had but you didn't talk long enough so I don't know [TS]

  but I was going to compare because I favorite constantly. I might vomit stars on Twitter. [TS]

  Yes you are you are an over favorite [TS]

  or like you just explained a situation that I would essentially never do a favorite where someone teases me about [TS]

  something I don't feel the need to Favorite them to let them know I'm not mad at them because I feel like that's the [TS]

  default [TS]

  and you know whatever like yeah you do that like if somebody like it somebody makes a joke at you that is insulting to [TS]

  you you favorite it. [TS]

  Well they don't so if it's somebody that I like [TS]

  and again will pick on Guy English because we all like I already tweet the Margaux speaking of. [TS]

  How your behavior is ready to go up [TS]

  but I want I want guy to know that I may not be replying to this with some snarky comeback of my own [TS]

  but we're still cool I'm not offended by it I'm not running away with my tail between my legs. [TS]

  I thought it was funny I got a gag All right got a giggle out of it [TS]

  but I'm not going to take the effort to continue this conversation. But hey here's a favor to let you know. [TS]

  I understand I saw it and it was funny work [TS]

  or the funny thing is like do you guys ever check the favorites that you're receiving. [TS]

  I get notified on my computer but not on my phone bank notified when I got an actual [TS]

  or send notification that comes my thing and that's crazy. [TS]

  Well because sometimes I get well firstly I don't have [TS]

  but a fraction of the followers that you guys have although over nine thousand What's not anyway so the point is that a [TS]

  lot of times I'll make a really sarcastic of noxious joke that is meant in English kind of way. [TS]

  Now we're now that's becoming a verb making like a guy English kind of joke. [TS]

  And I I want to know that if I'm making a joke it I don't know me Jason smells expense that he thinks it's OK [TS]

  and funny and cool and if he throws me a favorite then I know all right I don't need to apologize profusely [TS]

  and hate myself. And if he doesn't throw me if I want to just make that the default. [TS]

  Well just assume you don't have to apologize and hate yourself [TS]

  and assume that everyone gets your jokes unless they actually tell you that they didn't mark [TS]

  or this is a difference between you and I I'm kind of serious. [TS]

  But anyway now I think I think it's funny that like you know like we all seem to be using favorites kind of correctly. [TS]

  Like all the people who I follow who I'm favoring. [TS]

  They probably all use third party clients and most of them have enough followers [TS]

  and get enough favorites that it might be annoying to be notified of each one and the third party client [TS]

  but they don't really they really show you receive favorites anywhere useful because there is no good A.P.I. For it. [TS]

  I think most people do what I do. [TS]

  Do which is go to a site that shows you your humiliated favorites I go to right Dave start tons of people use those [TS]

  services and I think that's a reasonably healthy that's not good to be obsessed with it to be a help [TS]

  but like it's a feedback mechanism. Have you made a funny joke or not. If nobody favors it or nobody R.T. [TS]

  That you have you know it is less funny than are to be surprised that you said something you didn't think resonated [TS]

  but then like a huge percentage of your followers favorite or R.T. [TS]

  It and the ratio favor narky the something people are saving to try to give like oh you made me laugh [TS]

  or I thought that was interesting. [TS]

  Or they are taking it in like this is something I want my followers to see as well so I defy Look at face of it that [TS]

  it's like that doesn't come at me I go to fav star [TS]

  when I'm interested how have I done for today you know I mean so like anything some people who get obsessed with it [TS]

  and the sooner they tweet this [TS]

  and they're in on their favorite sayings that again the fear is that I get to be ever who favored him [TS]

  but you know it's it's about that you don't you know you any site to show you the number of favorites a retreat you're [TS]

  going to eat. [TS]

  No I usually be notified by fav star that I did something that got a lot of favorites like crossed some threshold like [TS]

  one hundred two hundred of those e-mails are not just NOT biggest refining on Twitter if you congratulations on your [TS]

  you know hundred starts with whatever and there have been a few times a year it's not a frequent thing that I get. [TS]

  I did recently start checking my retreats tab because that third party clients can show you know your last few tweets [TS]

  and you know how many recruits they got basically so I did check that boy this is boring. [TS]

  Well it's really quick real time for all of them will go to the next awesome thing I have eight thousand seven hundred [TS]

  fifty three faves. Marco has seven thousand nine hundred sixty nine. [TS]

  John Mr stingy Syracuse one thousand four hundred eighty nine I think I have the right number. [TS]

  I live on Twitter along with you guys too. You probably think you have too many. [TS]

  Yeah that's you know I mean half of those are bookmarks or more than I do you know I actually like that. [TS]

  That's what we call Marco other than favorites. [TS]

  Once again are our longtime probably most frequent sponsor is back it is our friends at square space square space is [TS]

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  and I'm going to thank them also because they sponsored all the really fms new shows and that has a cool move. [TS]

  So thanks Chris Fisher doing that today. [TS]

  Those guys are friends of ours in Casey's case they are one of us and so yeah thank you for that anyway. [TS]

  And listeners if you are listening to relay F.M. [TS]

  For God's sake go do it it's their shows these are the great mikes back Stephen back Katie's back Federico is back. [TS]

  Who of them there I don't know who's the paddock I don't know his name. Doubt is that right. [TS]

  Yes So he's back to these all these people are back it's fantastic. Anyway Squarespace is simple and easy. [TS]

  They have beautiful design you can drag and drop to edit your templates to add content to change the way it looks. [TS]

  All this drag [TS]

  and drop stuff you can also go in there at the market if you want to you can inject code you can inject C.S.S. [TS]

  We do that on our side to customize a few things but for the most part our site is one of their stock templates [TS]

  and I think it's a don't only a couple of tweaks to it that we did but it's I think it looks great. [TS]

  I look through their templates [TS]

  and they there are so many good things you know you don't have to spend a lot of time on it if you don't want to [TS]

  and if you do want to you can you can customize the crap out of it basically Squarespace a lot [TS]

  and you know I could make a website from scratch in some other way. [TS]

  Most of the listeners of the show probably could make their own website if they wanted to but there's a time [TS]

  when it's worth doing that and at a time when it isn't [TS]

  and most of the time it isn't most of the time if you're if you're making a site for you know your blog your portfolio [TS]

  your business your restaurant your store your projects whatever whatever the case may be. Most of the time. [TS]

  You don't need to code your own Web site from scratch or install your own CNS somewhere and get a host [TS]

  or anything like that most of the time you're better off just outsourcing all that stuff [TS]

  and focusing on your business or your project or your content. Squarespace lets you do that. [TS]

  Really I can't I can't tell you enough how much it means that like people like me choose to use groceries even though [TS]

  we could use the Web site because you know it's just not worth it to spend our time doing it most the time square gives [TS]

  you the functionality that I could never build and if I want to proxy made it it would take years [TS]

  and they give it to you for a bucks a month. So pretty great anyway. [TS]

  Elders all their designs are responsive Of course they look at our mobile they look on tablets look at everywhere. [TS]

  They also have commerce you can as I said you can build a store there you can sell physical or digital goods. [TS]

  This functionality is included for free with every plan really great really great feature here. [TS]

  Anyway good squarespace dot com and use offer code A.T.P. [TS]

  At checkout you can start a free trial before you check out with no credit card required [TS]

  and you can start building a website. Just try it out. [TS]

  You can you don't have to listen to me blab about this for ten minutes just try it out you can see how good it is [TS]

  yourself when you do try to sign up. Make sure to go to squarespace dot com to use offer code A.T.P. [TS]

  To get ten percent off your first purchase and to show your support for our show. [TS]

  Thank you very much to square space for supporting our show and so many other great shows Squarespace. [TS]

  A better web starts with your website. All right so Mark are you running your sanity in any of your computers. [TS]

  What you crazy no. [TS]

  OK I am not either so I have not seen the new version of i Tunes and I'm assuming it's somebody only is Neter my crazy. [TS]

  I know I've been assuming that like all versions of i Tunes it over be released not just for Yosemite [TS]

  but for all the recent versions of O. S. [TS]

  Time which is why I am basically not saying anything about it in the review because for all I know it could be released [TS]

  before you somebody even comes out like they do that all the time. [TS]

  It's only visible unless you're seventy now but there's no reason to believe they could release that I do [TS]

  and whenever it's ready it's not like it's going to be a somebody only assume I can guarantee. [TS]

  But today it's Yosemite only as far as I know I didn't have a gun looking innocent of that like I do in the data [TS]

  downloads of the developer portal I haven't looked for them now in Iraq. [TS]

  All right so but you have spent some amount of time with Sergeant John is there anything you want. [TS]

  Yeah I've played around with it and do you have any thoughts about it. [TS]

  Basho the first thing I do with every new version of i Tunes is bring up the preferences window [TS]

  and see if it's still at modal and if it is I was interested and and it's Top Model sorry. [TS]

  Probably And whatever this is not the gigant like so i Tunes eleven. [TS]

  I think that was the one where they did the larger overhaul where the side bar was hidden by default [TS]

  and they are using now. I think it's eleven right and that was like well look they really changed the U.I. [TS]

  and It was different and there's lots of things that are interesting improvements [TS]

  and it's clear a lot of thought went into it it's all so weird. [TS]

  I've gotten used to it more or less [TS]

  but I did make a side bar visible so I've got to go back to the old mode the new one. [TS]

  Even you know goes farther in that direction but it's not a complete rethinking [TS]

  and so it's likely you're breaking my habits [TS]

  but are you giving me an application that's faster that's more stable that has you know that that does its job better [TS]

  or you just kind of like redecorating [TS]

  and I'm not going to say the current version i Tunes using is just redecorating is I think the way I know some people [TS]

  hate us because of the use of the old one but like the way they handle the Up next stuff [TS]

  and everything is interesting if you like the old way then I can understand why you're pissed off that they made this [TS]

  new way. [TS]

  But I wasn't all that happy with the old way [TS]

  and the new way as some features that I like it just it just doesn't feel it doesn't feel refreshing [TS]

  and this this topic is coming to us because part of the road and ask about like photos on the Mac. [TS]

  We talk about is what I show you know photos going to replace i Photo we don't really know where that's going to mean. [TS]

  but one thing we do know is it's not going to be i Photo with like the U. Why refreshed. [TS]

  Right it's going to be let's rethink how we do photo management [TS]

  and his question was he was wondering if we might see Apple do the same thing with i Tunes [TS]

  and you know runs from where he was [TS]

  when we're going to do something with i Tunes either split it up into a bunch of individual applications just rethink [TS]

  what it means to do whatever the hell i Tunes does which is like play music once you buy things and watch movies [TS]

  but also sync and back up your I O. S. Devices and just I don't know. [TS]

  And so that's that's a thing that's a good question. What what does it mean. [TS]

  What are the next gen i Tunes look like what does it mean to rethink i Tunes. That's See there's there's a lot there. [TS]

  I think what a lot of people forget is that i Tunes has to run on Windows. [TS]

  And the reason it has running Windows is because you know it's not necessarily because Apple needs to sell music [TS]

  and movies to Windows people I mean they I'm sure they like doing that. [TS]

  I'm sure that's a significant portion of buyers but the biggest reason is that people who sync i Pods [TS]

  and i have an i Phone and i Pad people who think i Devices need something to sync them with on Windows [TS]

  and by keeping all this functionality in i Tunes It lets them have the shared code base that runs on both Windows [TS]

  and mac and handles all their Iowa sinking and media needs for them. [TS]

  So I would say we're not going to see the kind of big rewrite [TS]

  and put up a functionality that that I think most of us would like. [TS]

  In theory I'd say we're not going to see that until it's no longer necessary to to have a version of i Tunes that runs [TS]

  on Windows. So what does that mean. [TS]

  So right now where where why do you think we won't see that until two thousand if anything [TS]

  or make that job easier if they split it up into pieces the only piece that needs to live on Windows is the piece [TS]

  or do you think you're right with devices [TS]

  and that presently would be a simpler app than constantly having to keep the full functionality of i Tunes updated [TS]

  or running on Windows right. Well not necessarily. First of all they you know keep my what signal I was devices. [TS]

  Still you can still [TS]

  and I still do manually sync media over to your eye US devices because you know what i Tunes Match doesn't always work [TS]

  and a lot of times it's a lot easier to sync over a whole bunch of downloaded files that you already have on your [TS]

  computer. Put it over a wire and put on your device. [TS]

  Then to try to do the same thing over the Internet [TS]

  and use God knows how much bandwidth at you know no idea how fast it's going to go and you know it's but war. [TS]

  How does the status of stuff get onto your mac like you say my home movies that you take or something like that. [TS]

  Music movies you know whatever the case I think all the stuff comes from the network to begin listening for us people I [TS]

  don't think a lot of people are taking home movies [TS]

  and putting them into their i Tunes I like it they're on their i OS device already has they take them on their hours [TS]

  device. [TS]

  Yeah but [TS]

  but a lot of I'm talking more like you know movies that you buy from i Tunes music that you've accumulated over the [TS]

  last decade. [TS]

  People people have large media collections that that they want to sink quickly to a device [TS]

  and a lot of times re downloading it all over the Internet is impossible or impractical. [TS]

  So there is still there is still the need for this. Also a lot of people might not a lot. [TS]

  Some people might still back up over cable. [TS]

  That's what's important is days because I think I think I've had backup is by far more popular [TS]

  but either way there are still a lot of people it is now there is one other major part here which is i Pods which still [TS]

  exist they don't they're not doing that well but they still exist. [TS]

  They're still for sale and are still a good number of them out there and [TS]

  and you know the number is probably going down over time but [TS]

  but it has a long way to go down though so I've hides most of them have no network connection [TS]

  and so you need to sync an i Pod from I do there is no other way to get music onto excluding the talks [TS]

  but you know that the the non touch i Pod I'm talking about here of the talks isn't doing so hot either. [TS]

  But you need to have some way to get the media on to those and manage that media [TS]

  and i Tunes are still requires that So I think we're not going to see. So I think you know. [TS]

  Those are very patient company especially [TS]

  when it comes to big tactical shifts like this I think Apple is probably going to do what it needs to do it i Tunes [TS]

  only after it can discontinue the Windows version or substantially shrink it down [TS]

  and I don't think that's going to happen until it is no longer important to be able to sync music to i Pods for Windows. [TS]

  Well they have a technical debt problem though that even if you decide that every ounce of functionality with an i [TS]

  Tunes including visualizers [TS]

  and crap like that needs to stay there because just because a a rewrite of the i Tunes application like long term [TS]

  eventually will be required. [TS]

  I don't know how much of your crufty carbon stuff is in there I know a lot of their Windows libraries were based on [TS]

  carbon and if the mac origin was also carbon then your diverge in the code bases [TS]

  but it's not like you're in a port Kokoda windows [TS]

  and so how do you deal with that like to make the application better eventually application gets old and gross [TS]

  and you need to rewrite portion of it and I'm sure they've been doing that slowly over the years [TS]

  but depending on how long it takes to wait out if they're doing this tragic like well then she will need to know it [TS]

  anyway but if they're going to wait that out it may take such a long time and really like the State of the U.I. [TS]

  On Windows is already moving on and not that Apple's been keeping up with it [TS]

  but eventually you'll have to have to do something on Windows like their application won't won't fit in maybe it will [TS]

  stop working [TS]

  and oh Microsoft historically has been super good about making all the applications work for a long time [TS]

  but maybe the new Microsoft isn't as excited about that. So it's kind of a game of chicken with progress. [TS]

  Well we'll keep doing this thing we keep kind of refreshing it [TS]

  but we are held back by the fact that our windows compared to Windows U.I. [TS]

  Libraries based on like old quick time libraries in carbon code or whatever and that's what we have to use [TS]

  and we want to share based Kobe said to keep Usenet on the mac [TS]

  and i Tunes becomes this increasingly weird application both on the Mac. [TS]

  And I wonder as I mean already on the mac where it supposedly native It's it's odd it's always been a little odd [TS]

  and windows. It's also always been a little bit odd. So I I wonder how long we can. [TS]

  They can keep going in this direction [TS]

  and I still think you can make a smaller simpler more purpose built app that fills all of Apple's needs. [TS]

  On Windows for this purpose. [TS]

  You know like take out as much as you can but still let people think their i Pods and do their and buy things [TS]

  and put them on but it becomes like the whole purpose that applications like what you said why do they need to know [TS]

  when this is a companion application for your i was devices and that's all it is. [TS]

  And if that's how you focus the application looks [TS]

  and works very differently than it does now it doesn't look like a music player that also has a little thing you can [TS]

  click that changes it into kind of an. [TS]

  And I was device management application like it that's all it is is just an I was device management application [TS]

  and I would think that they did that. [TS]

  That i Tunes is important enough that they get dedicated team to write i Tunes for Windows a separate application not [TS]

  be obsessed with sharing all the U.I. [TS]

  Code [TS]

  and everything to say look you like the biggest technology company in the world this is a core part of your business [TS]

  and i Tunes sales keep going up [TS]

  and up can't just spare a small team to write a full native I'm sure Windows people would love this a full native [TS]

  Windows application. The only part that it would share be like underlying faceless code and have the U.I. [TS]

  Be all custom for Windows [TS]

  and that may be actually easier than trying to keep these two code bases handcuffed together as the you know sort of [TS]

  lurch onward through history. [TS]

  It's just so much to redo though because as I'm listening to you guys I'm looking at the chat just enumerate all these [TS]

  other things that i Tunes does and one thing that I came up with [TS]

  and maybe that was in the trash as well as like i Tunes can still burn C.D.'s right that store thing. [TS]

  Believe it or not and rip them up and rip them in various different codecs with constant [TS]

  or variable bit rates I mean there are so many things that i Tunes does [TS]

  and the only way that we're really going get a rewrite I think is just like you said John to do something is to change [TS]

  the purpose of i Tunes which is I think coming back to Todd's point change the purpose of i Tunes look at it more is [TS]

  device management than is anything else. [TS]

  But if that's the case then what do you do with the store I mean I think Marco you made a great point earlier is that [TS]

  it so now is it. [TS]

  Well we've got the mac app store app right which is set for those all of the things on the mac apps so came people like [TS]

  what is that going to be another tab an i Tunes [TS]

  and the answer is no is going to be a separate terrible crappy application [TS]

  but it's going to be simpler than you do we actually want them to try to make it a lease [TS]

  when it separate No one is saying Boy the mac app store apa so bloated and slow and it crashes my computer [TS]

  and it's like it's limited it's super simple [TS]

  but it is not a pig like launches it runs it's got this thing it's got one window no tabs it's you know it's super [TS]

  limited but it's lightweight [TS]

  and you could iterate if they cared they could iterate within that single purpose thing to make an application it sort [TS]

  of gets better over time with i Tunes They just kept adding stuff as just it's an impossibility to have one application [TS]

  that does all these things [TS]

  and you know like for the windows purpose if you really think the only purpose of itunes on Windows is so people can [TS]

  think. [TS]

  I Pod I was devices then make an application for saying i Pod I was devised for Windows and then [TS]

  and then the question is What do you do on the next one that we want to also offer a music player. [TS]

  Windows people can use whatever Windows Media things they're offering you this rather than actually one of our use of [TS]

  music player and we also are but you buy stuff [TS]

  and we want to put into a single player like I thought a like it used to be one application and then show you stuff [TS]

  and now they're like Well actually your photos are going to be in this photos [TS]

  and i Cloud thing which is based on the whole new framework and blah blah blah [TS]

  and this app will be an interface to it [TS]

  and we also have an app of interface to it like a sort of a cloud centric thing where it stops being with monolithic [TS]

  application starts being a series of windows into a set of data [TS]

  and that's why you can you know like well if you if you had a sever music player [TS]

  or several I was thinking up where they have a duplicate of the data no be like one pool of your stuff [TS]

  and where would your stuff be probably in the same amorphous place that your photo stuff is going to be like that's you [TS]

  know and if they really want to go crazy and it was great. [TS]

  Apple to hold onto your seats I suggest this is I don't want you to do. Fall over. [TS]

  But there's one way you can make a single interface for multiple platforms to have access to data that's on a server [TS]

  somewhere at all the web page you have web apps like nothing you have to be the main interface once again are you sure [TS]

  you want this. [TS]

  I'm not saying this is the way it has to be a bit like every other company in the world like they would immediately go [TS]

  there and of course we also need to have a web interface to whatever you know to our e-mail system and will call a G. [TS]

  Mail you can you spoke like that which is not ideal for it like it's not ideal for i Tunes that stuff [TS]

  but it's like if they're going to put all your photos into the cloud into some local subset of the new machine Why [TS]

  can't all the stuff you buy the right tunes also there is already in the cloud right i Tunes Match all my stuff is [TS]

  already in the cloud but I have no access to it anywhere except for on a macro in this computer running i Tunes [TS]

  or on my US device web interface is such a natural fit for a pool of data that's already on a server somewhere. [TS]

  Why should it be tied [TS]

  and just have local caches of stuff like I think I think that's where all the apple's applications are going they just [TS]

  don't want to go the last step to do the web interface. [TS]

  So I'd be perfectly happy to have slim client side interfaces that stuff but if they wanted to address windows [TS]

  and didn't want to write a separate windows application some kind of Web integrated thing could work for them. [TS]

  So what you're saying is that you think it would be an improvement if Apple made more applications that are like the [TS]

  mac Appstore app and more web apps. Yeah. [TS]

  Unless like i Tunes Yeah but aren't aren't the store apps basically mostly H.T.M.L. Anyway. [TS]

  Yeah they're sort of like Apple's version of web apps where it's not really a web [TS]

  but it was like they want to have control over everything [TS]

  but it's like a really poor performing web app because like the time it takes your mac app store pages to load is way [TS]

  more than the time it takes like Amazon dot com page was Amazon dot com pages are filled with crap [TS]

  and yet they load instantly. But now and then I got stories like load it's like going back in time to Netscape four. [TS]

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  Thanks a lot to back later trouncing our show now getting back in this discussion about i Tunes for a second I have one. [TS]

  One little thing to say here that I'm sure will be a quick topic that nobody will argue with is i Tunes really that bad [TS]

  does it really justify all or it is it is bad. [TS]

  Does it really justify all of the work that it would take to rewrite the whole thing. [TS]

  Break it up into different apps lose Windows support lose some of the you know losing one to support you're making a [TS]

  new one of those two are numbered. [TS]

  Well well yeah [TS]

  but then like you know the media is the media store still there you know it right now they also enjoy a benefit of if [TS]

  you have an i Phone and you want to sing to your computer you have to install the i Tunes music store [TS]

  and you have to look at it sometimes and so that has to drive sales to some degree if you have an i Phone you mean [TS]

  and you mean an i Pod right. [TS]

  You don't need you don't need to answer i Phone I was twice don't need I don't think you are [TS]

  but anyway yes so some device that only the most don't I guess [TS]

  but the point is i Tunes works it doesn't work great all the time but it does work [TS]

  and you know is it really worth them spending so much time to rewrite. All of this all this stuff. [TS]

  That's a massive amount of time where it would not only be very expensive for them [TS]

  and would take a lot of a lot of talent away from other projects. [TS]

  But it also in the meantime probably get worse before it gets better because rewrites always have a ton of bugs at [TS]

  first that you know the bugs they fixed over the years are addressed [TS]

  and some other weird way they didn't resolve the same problems again like it would be a massive massive job. [TS]

  What's more important Apple i Tunes or i Photo that's a good question actually I'm not sure. [TS]

  And they're real and they're rewriting I thought of what I'm getting at is like yeah [TS]

  but you can keep going with application for a long time but at a certain point you need to sort of overall like [TS]

  and it's like oh I don't want to do this so is always some excuse not to not to redo it because you like [TS]

  but eventually time runs out like you know ten years twenty five thousand years from now are going to be written. [TS]

  You know you have to do it the same thing with the new language stuff everyone does want to put it off for ever [TS]

  and i Tunes is not just some obscure application it's like well you know whatever we get along with it is OK i Tunes [TS]

  like the cornerstone of their entire you know strategy for selling digital content [TS]

  and that's why they're afraid of change IOW don't touch doings that we needed to be like if you screw it up if you make [TS]

  the new version crappy or whatever [TS]

  and maybe that is why that I thought of it streams like well we screw up by thought oh it's all right we're just going [TS]

  to buy a movie a couple times and we survive that or whatever [TS]

  but i Tunes You can never change well you can't just like never touch it [TS]

  and you can't just like well it's Keep well just be rearranging the furniture was keep doing change to the U.I. [TS]

  Because basic functionality has gotten super terrible like a podcast which I thankfully banks the market do not manage [TS]

  i Tunes anymore. [TS]

  But right up until you've released overcast beta I was doing it and I had to and this is just gotten worse and worse [TS]

  and I don't listen to that many part guess I'm kind of like a moderate part of you know maybe ten twelve subscription [TS]

  but many of them [TS]

  and i Tunes was a nightmare it's like these are just like a little M P three files I felt like all these people who [TS]

  manage dozen folders argumentative and folders better than you can [TS]

  and now it's gotten so bad like they've added features [TS]

  but now you're like I was trying to clean through my i Tunes pod cast leverage trying to delete episodes [TS]

  and find ones that I haven't. [TS]

  Now known Mark once for saving it is it's just torture it is not friendly I could never expect anybody [TS]

  but me to go through this I would never instruct someone else I'll get i Tunes is an easy way for you to manage your [TS]

  stuff. [TS]

  Mike I barely used to listen to music just because I have it set up the way I want to my playlist that I want to have i [TS]

  Tunes Match which I think is a valuable service and you know I just get it just so and just said play essentially [TS]

  and next track to skip over a random play through my playlist it is not a pleasant experience it doesn't make me feel [TS]

  good about the application and I'm not saying I need to change right now but eventually they need to do something [TS]

  and I don't know if they can wait out until the Windows version doesn't work [TS]

  and all the excuses about why don't I write something this critical like you said [TS]

  but I think they said it about classic Macko ass for way too long. [TS]

  I Tunes is not at that point the programming language I really wasn't at that point but these things take time [TS]

  and are hard to do and so sooner [TS]

  or later it's got to be done you know I actually I think it does need to be done eventually [TS]

  but I I lean towards Marco's view on this one in that I don't ask that much of i Tunes and it does its job just fine. [TS]

  Does it ever do that [TS]

  or download movies for you until you discuss movies that you've purchased elsewhere just for money. [TS]

  No no never never consume all memory and you can do when you want it does to me No no. [TS]

  If your macro too old now I can't not buy you program and it has unfriendly bug that has tons of crap in it [TS]

  and this is like a delicate thing you don't want to touch too much like as a user [TS]

  and it's not it's not pleasant it's not friendly it's not nice. C. and I for regular like. [TS]

  Not super duper power user I'm not so sure you're right I think it's a drought and could be better. [TS]

  Yes it could be better you think you get the job done yes obviously it functions like it does not I supposed to do [TS]

  but we're arguing like is a good enough is it up to Apple standards. [TS]

  Could it be improved or are we just going to keep like has the power of the trendy and i Tunes progress like. [TS]

  Every new version of i Tunes better than the previous one even if the slope is really shallow going back maybe five you [TS]

  know seven years I think the slope is flat or trending down [TS]

  and that is not a good trend for an application that's so important for Apple. [TS]

  I would agree with that [TS]

  but there's so much technical depth there that it's moving amount in order to I know in the longer you wait the bigger [TS]

  the mound gets and that's true as well. [TS]

  I just I don't know to me I think they have bigger fish to fry than fix fixing i Tunes per side [TS]

  and I think this is a bigger slam dunk then then new programming language because new profiling of people on the [TS]

  opposite side not only is Objective C. [TS]

  Just fine in fact it's better than anything you can suggest so they sure as hell don't need a new language [TS]

  and luckily Apple does agree with that. [TS]

  I Tunes I don't think anyone's going to say not only is itunes just fine in fact it's better than any alternative [TS]

  you're going to magine therefore you know the most you get like well I do and it's all right. [TS]

  It doesn't bother me on a daily basis. It does what it's supposed to do. That's a low bar I like. [TS]

  Again I don't say this is an impending crisis My attitude is now that the reason people keep bringing this up [TS]

  and have been bringing up for years it just seems like it's do you know so maybe not this year maybe next year [TS]

  but sometime within the next maybe five ten years they have to they have to address is that to do something [TS]

  and you know maybe they'll be able to wait like marks until the windows version is irrelevant now finally we don't do [TS]

  our Windows version and it simplifies our transition [TS]

  but by then maybe they will build up too much crap made by then all Macs will be arming there's a bunch of weird crazy [TS]

  I think only code and i Tunes that we don't know about and you know I mean like you were of the C. [TS]

  Stuff eventually they'll have to get rid of the CD ripping stuff I would assume I mean obviously Apple still sells [TS]

  computers with up down down so I need to be resolved to go to as I do they still sell an optical drive the external [TS]

  Oddly that's Apple branded But yeah I guess you're right they don't having them often aren't. I don't think so. [TS]

  Where's Hackett when we need him. I think I think the question of. Rather than argue about whether. [TS]

  I didn't need to be fixed or replaced or whatever. [TS]

  The idea of all right so fast or to whatever your arbitrary year is than again bring about the programming language [TS]

  and it was like OK I will concede that five hundred years in the future Apple will need a programming language [TS]

  but not a year sooner. [TS]

  Anyway writing whatever you can see that i Tunes You will need to be rewritten to redesign the refactored the question [TS]

  remains what does that redesign refactor rewrite look like does it look exactly the same as the current i Tunes [TS]

  but like a better written [TS]

  and you know it with a non model preference ballot box are you know is that you invision the breaking up of the [TS]

  multiple applications disciple cations become irrelevant to some pictures [TS]

  and I didn't get integrated into the operating system in a way that you know that is not doesn't feel like an [TS]

  application [TS]

  but feels more like a notification center where it's like integrated I don't know those those I think your instinct [TS]

  questions I don't have any good answers [TS]

  but I think that is the most interesting line of thought about this rather than worrying about [TS]

  when something has to happen. [TS]

  First of all I would disagree with your assumption that i Tunes is more important to Apple than photos. [TS]

  If you think about where they make most of their money which is you know the eyelash devices and everything [TS]

  and then what people tend to do on the I was devices most and what's important to people [TS]

  and why people might choose one mobile platform over another. [TS]

  I think handling of photos [TS]

  and videos that are captured by the device handling of photos is way more important then everything i Tunes does to [TS]

  most of Apple's consumers. It's how partners Apple not how important is it Apple's consumers. [TS]

  Like anything like photos obviously. [TS]

  All the stuff they do is like OK well that makes the hardware more valuable to customers [TS]

  and Apple makes its money by selling the hardware. [TS]

  But like OK well what's the percentage of the value that this is in the hardware is added by photos versus what [TS]

  percentage is added by Face Time versus what percent is added by our message versus what percentage that would buy [TS]

  Safari and you start carving up into pieces and yeah I thought it does contribute value to the hardware but i Tunes. [TS]

  I mean when you really needed a break down of i Tunes usage inside [TS]

  and outside of Iowa because i Tunes revenue is going up up up [TS]

  but you don't know is that like what is it ninety nine point nine percent of that people making purchases on their i [TS]

  was devices then that decreases the value of i Tunes to the company the application [TS]

  but if there's a lot of people are still buying things on their computers and like for example Apple T.V. [TS]

  I think is something that a lot of magnets have. But you know I forget what the sales numbers are rebel T.V. [TS]

  but There's way more i Pads and i Phones other than These are people buying movies and watching them on their i Pads [TS]

  and i Pods are people buying them [TS]

  and watching their computer still like we're in transition between i Tunes where you did everything on your computer to [TS]

  stuff your than your handheld and I know for example that even though my daughter has access to a i Pad [TS]

  and i Pod Touches and all sorts of stuff. She still watches videos on a laptop computer rather than a giant T.V. [TS]

  By the way I don't understand that choice but it makes me wonder if i Tunes as a vehicle for both purchasing [TS]

  and consuming digital content is not as completely passe as it seems to be in our circles because we've all moved on to [TS]

  you know airplay and and highway devices. Maybe your T.V.'s fans are too loud. Kids on his hands. [TS]

  I'm kind of glad because I knew not to worry about them after leaving it paused and getting burn and or whatever [TS]

  but it is weird. Things were two or three sponsors this week. [TS]

  Casper backplanes and Squarespace and we will see you next week. Thank you for your time. [TS]

  As you well know access to that list and there are three weeks. I hope not because I was ten or you can kill me. [TS]

  OK Well that's possible. Tao's ago and I was going to bring it up but has a gallon. [TS]

  I don't care about like I go on talk about it I don't know I don't know how I'm going to I don't know how it's going to [TS]

  happen I don't know how I'm going to finish this thing. So using time off you're J.-O. B. [TS]

  Job I don't know I mean I would like to really stayed. [TS]

  Eventually I hope they don't surprise me and say hey it's ready early. [TS]

  I mean doesn't seem like it will be ready early but I have too much stuff to do [TS]

  and even sections I thought I knew I was going to write I get into them [TS]

  and realize I don't like I just I just started writing that's what they say. [TS]

  Like to the end like I said to until like this past weekend like finally now I can do this with sex I know exactly what [TS]

  to do and I don't know exactly when and right now I'm stuck in the frigates with Section who'll not cool. [TS]

  Well I don't know what to say about that and I'm sorry. Yeah I think this really may be my last one. [TS]

  You sound surprisingly serious when you say that ten ten is a nice round number. I hope it's not but I bet it is. [TS]

  I hope it's not as well but we'll talk about it after I don't want to overthink it now [TS]

  and I was going to get this done. It will say well you don't have to really decide on next summer. [TS]

  Yeah exactly that's [TS]

  when you know you don't want to live so you don't decide whether you have another kid right after you have the first [TS]

  one from the worst time to decide that actual nose is really live like fifteenth kid so for your list [TS]

  and returns right and this this is the worst time for you to decide whether to write another one of these next year [TS]

  and I know now because you sounded pretty much exactly the same a year ago if memory serves it gets worse every year [TS]

  though I do and I don't know if like you say that every year to year [TS]

  but I don't know if the reviews are getting worse like anywhere we'll talk about after this it was deciding whether to [TS]

  have another kid during contractions like the worst possible time. [TS]

  And the Alpha and I still don't I don't think i Tunes is that bad [TS]

  and I say that having had a lot of weird little item the problems happen over the years just use a lot for various [TS]

  things [TS]

  but it mostly works for me it's like you can see it works for me you know just because you know I mean there are a pod [TS]

  cast you should try to for like a week to try to you there are pockets like I used to. Yeah me too. [TS]

  They're actually paying attention to the podcast feature now which you think would be good [TS]

  but it actually cut like they're adding features that are good like Oh I've always wanted to do that I've always wanted [TS]

  to be able to tell I didn't save this episode I've always wanted better control over which one the downloads [TS]

  and so on but everything is so slow and painful and everything that a different mode on a different screen [TS]

  and a different view [TS]

  and I don't understand how to be so damn slow the recent update had at a note in the release notes it was like improve [TS]

  performance problems and podcast blah blah blah I haven't checked with to see if it's got that much better [TS]

  but at least they knowledge that is the problem like I would select like five pod cast and the delete key [TS]

  and they count ONE TWO THREE like just waiting for it to do something like it was multiple seconds of writing what [TS]

  happening like Come on guys I'm deleting four and be treated like I don't know what you do behind the scenes [TS]

  but you know you communicating with a server. [TS]

  Are you updating some gigantic POS file because he didn't want to make like you know that you sequelae Bakken for core [TS]

  I don't even know what they're doing. [TS]

  It's all part encoding stuff so I have no idea what all I know is that the experience of using application is not up to [TS]

  Apple's standards you know I think like putting up a carbon credits that's almost certainly there in the model [TS]

  preferences box like I think those are really not I think those are red herrings like the model part of the box on [TS]

  brother on the chat room. [TS]

  That's not like I don't care the preference that's understood has a canary to say [TS]

  when I go the way I will know that they seriously refactor the application because it's not important enough to address [TS]

  directly like who cares right. [TS]

  But if it is change it means they did such a sweeping change that this came out of it is a side effect [TS]

  and therefore they really may change so that's why I'm checking preferences not because I care about Atmel preferences [TS]

  or any I just just as an extra quick extra indication of how much refactoring work has really done it. [TS]

  Yeah I don't know I think we all say that we want to rewrite i Tunes [TS]

  and we say that with the implied following sentence that will solve everything. [TS]

  Reality of course we know that [TS]

  when Apple rewrites a major application all new especially in recent years that not only doesn't solve everything [TS]

  but often makes things worse for a while. [TS]

  Well you know I think I'm saying myself I knowledge that I'm willing to accept like a photos is not going to be very [TS]

  tight about it like how so few features will photos have an initial version and how much worse than I thought [TS]

  or will it be [TS]

  and look like you have to just accept those kind of transitions because you can't stick with one thing forever [TS]

  and I think that the most confusing thing is like it's the first one I write because of huge swaths of nine U.I. [TS]

  Related coded presently they would reviews that have nothing to do with you I have nothing to do with carbon they just [TS]

  you know this just tons of code that does a thing that doesn't even know because they were doing that talking to talks [TS]

  to i Tunes Match [TS]

  and all that network related code if you assume that that was factored reasonably they're not rewriting that like [TS]

  they've added all that code over the years they will continue to use it and wherever the use it hopefully. [TS]

  No modular way but you're mostly talking about is what's the glue that holds it all together [TS]

  and especially like the local glue of like is there still a local i Tunes database they can get corrupted because you [TS]

  have to go crazy. [TS]

  Is everything service I didn't move to more of a photo's model where it's like well used to be all about local sequelae [TS]

  databases and files on disk and now it's all about some cloud thing with everything local being like a cache [TS]

  or make things faster [TS]

  and stuff so photos will be the first guinea pig in this area I guess although our yearly with photos they've already [TS]

  kind of done several versions of that on I O. S. [TS]

  Albeit with a very spare interface simming the back end is going to be very similar in terms of how does how does [TS]

  photos and I want to know what photos you have and how to get little thumbnails for them [TS]

  and are they all in your phone and all that good stuff. [TS]

  So I'm optimistic that what they do with photos will be a good learning opportunity for [TS]

  when they have to do something similar to a translator that's that's a big use of when when the [TS]

  when the real word might be if it's got to be [TS]

  when what it's five hundred years a thousand years what are you willing to agree to everyone always wants to push it [TS]

  out in a series of those is actually a mental exercise you feel like it's not imminent it's not imminent right. [TS]

  But everyone agrees that you know I long time line something had to happen or Apple be out of business [TS]

  and so it's like do you assume i Tunes last until I was out of business like what time money you comfortable with [TS]

  likely to keep shrinking it until you get a feel for where because if you can bring it down to like well i Tunes will [TS]

  be in its current form. Intel Apple is out of business I believe that will happen two hundred years. [TS]

  It's pretty good bet that you are not factoring in all information available because that's a little bit crazy so just [TS]

  what do you think what kind of range you think is reasonable. [TS]

  Well again I think it's much more likely that they're going to stick with the current i Tunes architecture [TS]

  and not break all the stuff out not too crazy U.I. [TS]

  Rewrites and everything and they're going to stick with that until most of what i Tunes does is no longer relevant [TS]

  and no longer necessary and then they'll do a final cut and i Movie you know rewrite will do one of those here. [TS]

  It's where they like delete the whole thing basically rewrite the core ten percent of it from scratch. [TS]

  Right everyone is I haven't that's a good question you know again like i Tunes does so much I would say since there are [TS]

  you know they're still selling i Pods those are still doing you know not great [TS]

  but they're still selling them you know they still have certain things I was devices that are using i Tunes I think [TS]

  it's going to be there's going to be some future i O. S. Device or version of i O. S. [TS]

  That doesn't sync with i Tunes at all I think that is going to be when they when they do this and so [TS]

  when might that be. [TS]

  I don't know maybe five years I mean I don't think it's I don't it's going to be shorter than that [TS]

  and they are life they're around numbers of years as reasonable I think I was in his easy way to get rid of the i Pod [TS]

  requirement [TS]

  and I think this is probably if if i Pod stay around I think this will happen sooner rather than later is that just a [TS]

  call the i Pod sync with your IOS devices the I was devices already have access to all your media through cloud [TS]

  services or whatever and they already have tons of wireless protocols [TS]

  and wireless chips get cheap enough even if you just do it over some like hide them a version of Blue to the Possibly [TS]

  you get some tiny little i Pod Why in the hell should you have to think that with a Mac. You should like it. [TS]

  Why can't the I.O.'s device be the home base period like it's like a hierarchy like you have the tiny little i Pod [TS]

  or your i Pod shuffle that can pull songs over some wireless thing from your i O. S. Device just fine. [TS]

  Right and then you go after the big thing with the harddrive even that like. [TS]

  Eventually if i Pods they around which I don't think is guaranteed at all [TS]

  but if they do stay around one way you can get i Tunes out of the picture for i Pods as having sync with eyewitnesses [TS]

  with more people have then maybe more people have been P C's [TS]

  or Macs to the point that happened you know I mean I think Mark is right I think it'll be something we'll change [TS]

  external to to to i Tunes itself to make it not really requisite or not not necessary. [TS]

  It's current form and that's when it will make sense to start cleaving it to death [TS]

  and that's what we're talking about like you know the current form of the current form will become obsolete [TS]

  and you will unlike But ABOL will still want to have for example a way for you to play music on your back. [TS]

  Right and so it's like well we don't need this giant piece that is i Tunes But we want you to have a music player [TS]

  and the music play should be integrated with the music collection I maybe also want to have you a way for you to watch [TS]

  movies on your laptop when you're on a plane. [TS]

  Is that the same as the music player [TS]

  or is that a separate You know that's exactly what we're talking about isn't different than what I'm saying it's not [TS]

  like just take the existing i Tunes [TS]

  and rewriting Coco would have a look at that same Like as not I don't think that's you know a useful thing. [TS]

  I think what the way I'm looking at it is the implication of what Mark Owen [TS]

  and I agree with him is saying is that it can happen some time in the future that's not terribly near term where is it [TS]

  that five years that's so close in time and then I thought and I would no I would say at least five years you know [TS]

  and it might even be longer than I got I don't know who knows [TS]

  but what I'm basically saying is I don't think it's any time soon because you know the i Pods are still being sold are [TS]

  still being used by people health even bought a new i Pod Classic is probably the last person to ever have bought one [TS]

  and will probably like I bet we're going to discontinue it next week [TS]

  and he will be that will be literally the last one that was ever sold. Well he's the oldest young man I've ever met. [TS]

  Such are employers of the current i Pod Nano apparently has Bluetooth I don't know if companies who stand to Haven't [TS]

  have enough bandwidth to get songs over them probably for a shuffle they do that they just don't hold them my songs [TS]

  anyway. [TS]

  You don't really want to be transferring large files over Bluetooth that is it is not made for that [TS]

  and it doesn't let you forget that it just it was not satisfied by like wife I mean you know we're at the point now [TS]

  where maybe we're making a little more expensive and you could build in a little life I thing inside it certainly [TS]

  and I know maybe not a shuffle. I mean we have those little mother's S.D. [TS]

  Cards with the wife I think of the I five are those for cameras yet in the end those aren't that good. [TS]

  There are and those are also extremely slow. [TS]

  Right under saying in terms of like how how small can you make a life I think you can make it really small Obviously if [TS]

  you don't have to bury it inside a potentially metal camera or something like you could decide you know. [TS]

  Anyway we have the technology to do this now it's just like is it worthwhile does Apple even care about i Pods [TS]

  or is it just doesn't fade off into the sunset. [TS]

  We'll see [TS]

  but I'm saying like that's out if you want to keep selling things that only sell music that are really cheap eventually [TS]

  putting a little wife chipset in a tiny little thing that plays music sinks with your i was devices not with your max [TS]

  is a very reasonable thing to do. [TS]

  What does it need to sync for how do you get music on it [TS]

  and you get anything i Tunes Match what if i Tunes Match is no longer paying right [TS]

  but you don't want the wife to be used all the time has got a tiny little batter you just want to be like that you can [TS]

  just have like a lady Damani around my house picking up my songs like you want to basically have the radios off all the [TS]

  time except for when when you're sinking and why I would have to sync with with the I.R.S. [TS]

  Because it has not a screen in the case of a shovel he ended something to say what do you want on your i Pod Shuffle [TS]

  pick the songs here whatever point you know as you point and really you would want to pick like that nano screen [TS]

  and even the classic screens that you don't want to use the screen on the i Pod it the screen on your soon to be a much [TS]

  larger are soon to be larger anyway i Phone [TS]

  or i Pad is a much nicer way to pick what you want even though you could technically maybe with you know turn on the [TS]

  wife on your Nano and fiddle around with it and try to pick stuff to be annoying. [TS]

  See I don't I don't think the i Pod line is even worth enough of Apple's attention to make that change to make it seem [TS]

  to I was devised. [TS]

  Yeah I know I said I don't I don't you know so I think so either [TS]

  but if something if they wanted to keep it around that would be a way to do it without your items [TS]

  but it just seems like they're fading away like they don't bother really updating them no one cares about them. [TS]

  The sales keep going down down down. You know there looks like there is going to fade away. [TS]

  Yeah and that's by far the most likely outcome but I mean you're saying the classic i Pod should be dead by now too [TS]

  but somehow content. So at this point it will be a surprise when they do kill. Like for years I was pretty. [TS]

  Every event they're going to kill the upper class and they still haven't it's still there they're still selling it [TS]

  and at least one person out there is actually still buying it. [TS]

  We're not even going to notice and I do it because it's not like they're going announce it. [TS]

  We're just going to have to. [TS]

  Someone's going to go to the store [TS]

  and go hey you know I can't find the right person for just one night it will be like [TS]

  when the Fed takes over a bank like just one night every Apple store. [TS]

  Just be gone and the next morning just like that table just has you know more beeps on it [TS]

  and it will still take a few more days and some of the notice you have another not another big honor anymore. [TS]

  I wonder how I bet it would take a lot. [TS]

  If you work in an Apple store and you have a flexible manager don't tell Apple headquarters [TS]

  but just take the i Pod classic's off the show floor in your apple store [TS]

  and see how long it takes the counting days before someone says he's taught by classics. [TS]