00:00:00 ◼ ► Yes No I don't duck the question if you know look at the file. All right so let's start with some follow up. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/0">TS</a>]
00:00:10 ◼ ► To begin we have some follow up about the Tivo O.T. or Oter if you're Marco Otara my apologies. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/10">TS</a>]
00:00:20 ◼ ► Yes feedback was from Joseph. Last week we talked about who the O.J. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/20">TS</a>]
00:00:24 ◼ ► Might be good for I said you know get it try it out if you don't like it you know the stopping of it in dollars a month [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/24">TS</a>]
00:00:31 ◼ ► just points out that those require a one year commitment of service that has a thirty day money back guarantee in which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/31">TS</a>]
00:00:37 ◼ ► you can cancel or return it but you can't keep it for a couple months to see if you like it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/37">TS</a>]
00:00:42 ◼ ► I didn't I didn't actually check whether this is true but I trust him like a trustworthy guy with a lone first name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/42">TS</a>]
00:00:49 ◼ ► and a last name so you go you know because over the air is not a wasteland of just four networks in San Francisco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/49">TS</a>]
00:00:57 ◼ ► and Dan Benjamin thermoses go rant here. There is over ninety distinct channels of content available over the air. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/57">TS</a>]
00:01:04 ◼ ► Isis of some of its like religious or shopping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/64">TS</a>]
00:01:06 ◼ ► but there's tons of that stuff on cable to sell apparently in some places actually have lots of channels coming over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/66">TS</a>]
00:01:11 ◼ ► there. Yeah but like what kind of channels like is there that you actually want to watch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/71">TS</a>]
00:01:14 ◼ ► See that's the thing so Aaron and I have season tickets to the universe of any football team. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/74">TS</a>]
00:01:21 ◼ ► And we've gotten pretty serious about the tailgates with a mutual friend of ours Brian and he brings a generator [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/81">TS</a>]
00:01:28 ◼ ► and we bring a T.V. and We bring in over the air H.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/88">TS</a>]
00:01:32 ◼ ► and in Charlottesville Virginia which we've all established that you two think is basically the middle of nowhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/92">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► Actually it's past the middle of nowhere into straight up nothingness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/99">TS</a>]
00:01:42 ◼ ► and here in Richmond as well because of the Internet here we get I think Fox C.B.S. N.B.C. A.B.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/102">TS</a>]
00:01:50 ◼ ► I do know we get the C W Which was I was a little surprised to see but that's basically it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/110">TS</a>]
00:01:56 ◼ ► and then all those all the standards. Channels like Fox and N.B.C. Might not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/116">TS</a>]
00:02:03 ◼ ► or three sub channels like weather which just shows the weather non-stop it's like a dashboard if you will. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/123">TS</a>]
00:02:09 ◼ ► And and that's pretty much all we get. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/129">TS</a>]
00:02:12 ◼ ► So I'm sure there are places that gets plenty of channels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/132">TS</a>]
00:02:19 ◼ ► but I tell you what this is where I live is not one of those places. Do we have any of the follow up. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/139">TS</a>]
00:02:25 ◼ ► Yes and I don't duck the question if you know look at the file. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/145">TS</a>]
00:02:34 ◼ ► Boateng album doing well he sent us a link to a tumbler dedicated to frayed lightning cables that is appropriately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/154">TS</a>]
00:02:42 ◼ ► named for a lightning cables dot com a dot com In fact it has more than just frayed lightning cables on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/162">TS</a>]
00:02:47 ◼ ► but a lot of the things I had they were chewed by Animals I Have No no promise about what made these things fray I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/167">TS</a>]
00:02:53 ◼ ► think it's just a tumbler afraid by any of us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/173">TS</a>]
00:02:55 ◼ ► but if you want to see a bunch of free lightning cables you know Rule thirty four an hour and all go for it. All right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/175">TS</a>]
00:03:03 ◼ ► Yeah next bit of follow up is about Amazon buying twitch and how Google was look like they were interested [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/183">TS</a>]
00:03:11 ◼ ► but then bailed out of people didn't quite know why. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/191">TS</a>]
00:03:13 ◼ ► Here is a rumor sent to us by Hunter on Twitter saying the rumor is that the break up fee was too high relative to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/193">TS</a>]
00:03:20 ◼ ► risk of regulators killing it so Google was going to buy them normally as part of the deal they say OK well we agreed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/200">TS</a>]
00:03:26 ◼ ► to buy you and it turns out that the U.S. Government doesn't let us buy you for like anti trust reasons or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/206">TS</a>]
00:03:31 ◼ ► There's some theory that will still pay you as part of this deal and apparently twitch wanted to break up see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/211">TS</a>]
00:03:38 ◼ ► There was two I can according to this rumor they're not confirmed or any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/218">TS</a>]
00:03:41 ◼ ► but I would that explains why twitch might have accepted an offer from Amazon that is reportedly lower than what Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/221">TS</a>]
00:03:47 ◼ ► was willing to offer for them because there's more to the deal than just the numbers also what you're paying in cash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/227">TS</a>]
00:03:54 ◼ ► or stock and also things like break up fees so this is a plausible rumor about why. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/234">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► Which might have gone with Amazon set ago. All right what about we breezed your file I'm not sure I shall forget it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/240">TS</a>]
00:04:07 ◼ ► I'm impressed. Let's start with something cool and then we'll get into the real meat of the episode. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/247">TS</a>]
00:04:12 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week once again by our friends at Harry's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/252">TS</a>]
00:04:16 ◼ ► I don't think I ever actually spelled it last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/256">TS</a>]
00:04:18 ◼ ► and so God knows how anybody actually you know I thought what I was saying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/258">TS</a>]
00:04:22 ◼ ► But anyway it's H A R R Y S dot com a kind of Harry's You know with the apostrophe but you can't put an apostrophe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/262">TS</a>]
00:04:28 ◼ ► or else I don't think police and host names anyway go to Harry's dot com and use promo code A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/268">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► To saved five dollars off your first purchase. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/275">TS</a>]
00:04:37 ◼ ► So what is Harry's Harry's is less than a one year old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/277">TS</a>]
00:04:40 ◼ ► and they are already substantially disrupting the shaving industry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/280">TS</a>]
00:04:45 ◼ ► Harry's offers a better shaving experience and better value than the Giants in the space like shaken Gillette. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/285">TS</a>]
00:04:52 ◼ ► So here is this is very much like like some or other sponsors like Parker's or eyeglasses. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/292">TS</a>]
00:05:01 ◼ ► and this is not a coincidence because one of the founders of Harry's Jeff also was the co-founder of Warby Parker So [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/301">TS</a>]
00:05:11 ◼ ► Both of them are disrupting huge stagnant industries by offering great design meticulous craftsmanship [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/311">TS</a>]
00:05:17 ◼ ► and great highly personal customer service and most of all they're offering this at an amazing value. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/317">TS</a>]
00:05:22 ◼ ► The other founder Andy he was motivated to to address shaving because he went to a drugstore one dated to restock on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/322">TS</a>]
00:05:29 ◼ ► shaving stuff and he had to ask for help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/329">TS</a>]
00:05:31 ◼ ► and wait around for more than ten minutes for someone to come unlock the shoplifter resistant razor case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/331">TS</a>]
00:05:37 ◼ ► and he was eventually permitted to buy a four pack of blades and some shaving cream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/337">TS</a>]
00:05:41 ◼ ► and for all this great privilege of being treated like a criminal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/341">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► and having a bunch of time wasted he to pay over twenty five dollars for just four blades and some shaving cream. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/344">TS</a>]
00:05:50 ◼ ► He knew there had to be a better way to do this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/350">TS</a>]
00:05:52 ◼ ► Harry is makes amazing German engineer blades they care so much about the quality of these blades they actually bought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/352">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► German factory that makes the blades they did they went on the you you make great plays we're going to just buy you out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/360">TS</a>]
00:06:05 ◼ ► I'm going to make a new company with this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/365">TS</a>]
00:06:08 ◼ ► So Harry's is focused on providing men [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/368">TS</a>]
00:06:10 ◼ ► and women a great shaving experience for a fraction of the price of their competitors they charge less than two dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/370">TS</a>]
00:06:18 ◼ ► and if you go look around at what you've been paying for reader cartridges from the big brands under two dollars each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/378">TS</a>]
00:06:25 ◼ ► is probably about half of what you've been paying if you've been getting a good deal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/385">TS</a>]
00:06:29 ◼ ► So this is you know a fantastic price and I tried to. They sent me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/389">TS</a>]
00:06:33 ◼ ► They sent me the big starter kit and everything that I tried these blades [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/393">TS</a>]
00:06:36 ◼ ► and they're really good I was I was surprised you know I was worried that I might I might like try it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/396">TS</a>]
00:06:42 ◼ ► and maybe I wouldn't like it and I just wouldn't say anything because of awkward but I know I tried these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/402">TS</a>]
00:06:49 ◼ ► They I was very impressed by the blades and by the handle the handles like nice and weighty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/409">TS</a>]
00:06:53 ◼ ► Everything about it is very high quality packaging is really nice. I was I was very impressed by all of it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/413">TS</a>]
00:06:59 ◼ ► Harry's you get the convenience and ease of ordering online you get high quality blades you get a great handle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/419">TS</a>]
00:07:04 ◼ ► and shaving cream and excellent customer service. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/424">TS</a>]
00:07:06 ◼ ► All this at half the price of competitors so you can get started today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/426">TS</a>]
00:07:10 ◼ ► You can say you can try your so if you could see what I'm talking about guessers today with a set include the handle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/430">TS</a>]
00:07:15 ◼ ► three blades and shaving cream for just fifteen dollars shipped to your door. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/435">TS</a>]
00:07:20 ◼ ► That's a fifteen bucks including shipping for a handle three blades and green. You can't beat that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/440">TS</a>]
00:07:25 ◼ ► Harry's even offers a custom engraving option on the handle if you are that kind of person. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/445">TS</a>]
00:07:30 ◼ ► So anyway go to Harry dot com Use promo code A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/450">TS</a>]
00:07:33 ◼ ► To save five dollars off your first purchase thank you very much to Harry's for sponsoring our show once again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/453">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► So Marco when you were big into P C Did you read Tom's Hardware very often of course. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/459">TS</a>]
00:07:46 ◼ ► Yeah I remember back when they made Intel recall the one point one gigahertz penny. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/466">TS</a>]
00:07:52 ◼ ► And John I seem you were at least ten generally aware if not a reader yourself. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/472">TS</a>]
00:07:57 ◼ ► Now I know about it but I don't read it. OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/477">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► So Toms Hardware for Marco myself was a really important resource and Web site. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/480">TS</a>]
00:08:06 ◼ ► I don't know ten years ago ish maybe even fifteen now just to talk about the real nitty gritty about hardware for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/486">TS</a>]
00:08:15 ◼ ► P.C. World and to me is it. Anand techer Nanda tech I'm probably pronouncing it wrong both ways. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/495">TS</a>]
00:08:22 ◼ ► Do we know which one it is. John you're in charge of princes on the show. I got nothing on this one I don't buy it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/502">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► I have met the man in person still and a lot of nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/508">TS</a>]
00:08:31 ◼ ► So an intact seem to me anyway to be very much the Toms Hardware of the Apple world in twenty fourteen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/511">TS</a>]
00:08:39 ◼ ► and if that doesn't sound like a compliment it should because that is a huge compliment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/519">TS</a>]
00:08:44 ◼ ► and apparently now going to say a non-self totally inconsistent but in times has left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/524">TS</a>]
00:08:50 ◼ ► and as it turns out he's going somewhere very interesting he's off to Apple. So Marco What do you think about all this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/530">TS</a>]
00:08:59 ◼ ► I think I'm honestly I'm disappointed that we're not going to read any more of his awesome reviews because what he you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/539">TS</a>]
00:09:05 ◼ ► know I compare him to John like what what John does for software and then we're due for hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/545">TS</a>]
00:09:10 ◼ ► and his insights on things like C.P.U. Design and like where where P.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/550">TS</a>]
00:09:17 ◼ ► Hardware was going and what was becoming important and what wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/557">TS</a>]
00:09:20 ◼ ► and he was really just incredibly good at both writing about this stuff at seeing what's what's here seeing what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/560">TS</a>]
00:09:29 ◼ ► and explaining very very complex things about you know things like chip design you know explaining that in a way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/569">TS</a>]
00:09:36 ◼ ► makes it relevant to the readers of these reviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/576">TS</a>]
00:09:38 ◼ ► and so we don't know what he's doing in Apple We also know that they hired Brian clued into is that right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/578">TS</a>]
00:09:45 ◼ ► I believe that's right. They hired Brian clue who was also a writer at an end tech. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/585">TS</a>]
00:09:49 ◼ ► So so they hired Apple apparently hired him very quietly a few months back and so anyways anally got both of them. I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/589">TS</a>]
00:09:57 ◼ ► Interesting to know what what department they're even. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/597">TS</a>]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Working for I don't know what their qualifications are exactly I would I was unsure guess that I don't know much about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/600">TS</a>]
00:10:05 ◼ ► Browder ensure against the demand probably knows probably has has enough background to work on the ticket on department [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/605">TS</a>]
00:10:13 ◼ ► Yeah that's the question like When he posted on the site that he was just retiring he didn't say where he was going he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/613">TS</a>]
00:10:19 ◼ ► just said like I'm retiring from tech kernels which is different than leaving the Web site that bears my name like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/619">TS</a>]
00:10:24 ◼ ► didn't just say that I was not like some power struggle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/624">TS</a>]
00:10:26 ◼ ► or something with something he wasn't leaving the Web site to go over some of those now I'm retiring from tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/626">TS</a>]
00:10:31 ◼ ► and minus one tempered agent that was he wanted to do something else right because he's obviously has retired generals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/631">TS</a>]
00:10:38 ◼ ► and I mean he's not going to show up writing reviews of hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/638">TS</a>]
00:10:40 ◼ ► and some other Web site is not going to start his own Web site with a different name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/640">TS</a>]
00:10:43 ◼ ► or you know like that that he was done with that and he wanted to do something else with this one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/643">TS</a>]
00:10:48 ◼ ► and then I tweeted that day like here are the list of companies that should be trying to hire him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/648">TS</a>]
00:10:54 ◼ ► and what I was doing that I was trying to think like what what value could he bring to a company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/654">TS</a>]
00:11:00 ◼ ► and who what to what companies he the most valuable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/660">TS</a>]
00:11:03 ◼ ► and the top of my list with Intel because aside from all of the reason everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/663">TS</a>]
00:11:08 ◼ ► and in all of his contact with these various hardware vendors he definitely has some frustration with Intel like we all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/668">TS</a>]
00:11:16 ◼ ► do like trying to figure out like are they going to be you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/676">TS</a>]
00:11:20 ◼ ► When they sold all their ARM Holdings to get rid of you know they stop trying to make ARM chips to do their own thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/680">TS</a>]
00:11:30 ◼ ► and how that's going into various software initiatives vacation we have are they just going to be a fab [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/690">TS</a>]
00:11:35 ◼ ► or they continue are they going to continue to sell chips. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/695">TS</a>]
00:11:38 ◼ ► He had interesting things to say about what he thought Intel should be doing with their business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/698">TS</a>]
00:11:43 ◼ ► and how competitive their products actually are and could potentially be in the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/703">TS</a>]
00:11:47 ◼ ► and I'm sure he told in tower all these things and he told the same thing to anybody which is the company I was did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/707">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► and a bunch of other people you know it's kind of like an outsider's perspective of like look inside the Intel bubble [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/713">TS</a>]
00:11:58 ◼ ► you maybe think you're doing. Right Thing but from my perspective you are you know you should be doing X. Y. and Z. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/718">TS</a>]
00:12:04 ◼ ► and You're not or you should do this sooner or later you should acquire this company or start doing that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/724">TS</a>]
00:12:07 ◼ ► Stop doing that. So it seems like he had a lot of insight into their business and that would be valuable to them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/727">TS</a>]
00:12:14 ◼ ► And same thing with other companies is that's what being content with these hardware vendors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/734">TS</a>]
00:12:17 ◼ ► and you would meet with them and they would explain what their upcoming line of things are and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/737">TS</a>]
00:12:22 ◼ ► and then he would write about it and presumably he would tell them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/742">TS</a>]
00:12:24 ◼ ► and to their faces like you know I think you can do this and this other company doing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/744">TS</a>]
00:12:28 ◼ ► and you know like just giving his opinion like what he wrote on his website about all of this is big picture things not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/748">TS</a>]
00:12:34 ◼ ► just like let me tell you how many added should be here next year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/754">TS</a>]
00:12:37 ◼ ► but just like you know a grand scheme of things strategy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/757">TS</a>]
00:12:43 ◼ ► when it came out that he was going to Apple I didn't put up on a list because I thought that of all the things he can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/763">TS</a>]
00:12:50 ◼ ► offer Apple probably had existing people doing those same things and didn't seem as like sort of rudderless you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/770">TS</a>]
00:12:58 ◼ ► or as sort of flailing at some of these other companies like Apple seems to have it stuff together right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/778">TS</a>]
00:13:04 ◼ ► But Apple did hire him which again shows they're probably other stuff together more than other companies are going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/784">TS</a>]
00:13:08 ◼ ► probably don't even know they need someone like him but Apple does know that having someone like him is valuable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/788">TS</a>]
00:13:12 ◼ ► and I was trying to think what he could do for Apple a lot of people guessed that he would have something to do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/792">TS</a>]
00:13:18 ◼ ► and he certainly does have a heck of a lot of experience at the interface between technology companies and press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/798">TS</a>]
00:13:23 ◼ ► but he's always on the other side of it so I don't quite see what he would do for Apple on the I don't know I may be I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/803">TS</a>]
00:13:31 ◼ ► think he has expertise in an area that could be used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/811">TS</a>]
00:13:34 ◼ ► but I don't know if that would interest them I don't know enough about it interest chip stuff I don't know if he's ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/814">TS</a>]
00:13:40 ◼ ► designed to be got opinions that J.P. Knows a lot about architecture on the broad level but down to the nitty gritty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/820">TS</a>]
00:13:45 ◼ ► I don't know if he has that depth of knowledge about you know laying out laying out circuits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/825">TS</a>]
00:13:52 ◼ ► or deciding like you know and maybe you don't have to maybe you can be more you know a visor a supervisory role there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/832">TS</a>]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Got a skill set to even guess about what department to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/840">TS</a>]
00:14:02 ◼ ► and it's kind of in the same situation that I always imagine myself to be in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/842">TS</a>]
00:14:08 ◼ ► Which is why Apple will never hire me as likely only have one call to do it. Apple is a tell everyone what to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/848">TS</a>]
00:14:15 ◼ ► Those jobs are already filled by people who have earned the right to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/855">TS</a>]
00:14:18 ◼ ► and not just by saying well I have an opinion. Yeah well that's why you don't get that job right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/858">TS</a>]
00:14:22 ◼ ► But he has more than just an opinion. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/862">TS</a>]
00:14:23 ◼ ► Like I think he has actual insights [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/863">TS</a>]
00:14:25 ◼ ► and has much more you know you have he has close contact with so many vendors in the harbor interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/865">TS</a>]
00:14:31 ◼ ► and such in-depth knowledge of all of their products and that that is valuable to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/871">TS</a>]
00:14:35 ◼ ► and so it seems like he would have to be in a position of some considerable authority like you're not going to just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/875">TS</a>]
00:14:41 ◼ ► make him be some with another car going to machine like he left the Web site the founder he was fourteen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/881">TS</a>]
00:14:46 ◼ ► and has his name on it so I think he's in obsession where he's going to be able to make big moves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/886">TS</a>]
00:14:54 ◼ ► and be an important part of Apple's organization I find that exciting. Yeah I hope so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/894">TS</a>]
00:14:59 ◼ ► You know like so in the chat room Pavan or a person linked to this thing will put in the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/899">TS</a>]
00:15:05 ◼ ► It's Apple Jobs entry on on their on their job site where it fits the job title is performance marketing analyst [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/905">TS</a>]
00:15:13 ◼ ► and it says in this role you will develop test methodologies test Apple devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/913">TS</a>]
00:15:17 ◼ ► and competitive products analyze test results [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/917">TS</a>]
00:15:20 ◼ ► and help prepare performance data to support product managers in creating compelling performance stories for product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/920">TS</a>]
00:15:29 ◼ ► What that all basically means is he would be doing like reviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/929">TS</a>]
00:15:33 ◼ ► and comparisons for internal use to put in marketing materials. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/933">TS</a>]
00:15:37 ◼ ► I I cannot see him leaving his own site to do this like this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/937">TS</a>]
00:15:41 ◼ ► This doesn't seem like it's a big enough car in an important part of a machine like that he's a little overqualified [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/941">TS</a>]
00:15:48 ◼ ► but on the other hand Apple is the kind of company that smart enough to get someone is overqualified to fill because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/948">TS</a>]
00:15:54 ◼ ► like that position doesn't necessarily have to be as kind of grunt work as it seems because you could. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/954">TS</a>]
00:16:00 ◼ ► It's the design a future products like it's you know from the outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/960">TS</a>]
00:16:04 ◼ ► and I can say like oh well here's what they did with the C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/964">TS</a>]
00:16:07 ◼ ► In this review combination and really they would've ended up with a better platform. They don't X. Y. and Z. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/967">TS</a>]
00:16:12 ◼ ► but He can actually make that happen whereas if you doing comparison tests of like prototype hardware inside the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/972">TS</a>]
00:16:16 ◼ ► company and it's OK Well for this one thing and for the next chip I think these guys are going to do X. Y. and Z. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/976">TS</a>]
00:16:23 ◼ ► That like you can actually influence the roadmap as opposed to just commenting on it from the outside. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/983">TS</a>]
00:16:27 ◼ ► So that is potentially not this exact position [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/987">TS</a>]
00:16:30 ◼ ► but like the head of all the people doing that is potentially a powerful position within the organization because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/990">TS</a>]
00:16:35 ◼ ► can influence the hardware or about of Apple's products [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/995">TS</a>]
00:16:38 ◼ ► and that I mean you know that that's could be beneficial to Apple and I think it might be interesting to them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/998">TS</a>]
00:16:44 ◼ ► Yeah I definitely think you know if if there is a chance that he's actually going to be involved in like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1004">TS</a>]
00:16:49 ◼ ► component selection maybe like you know what you're saying like trying to influence you know not necessarily designing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1009">TS</a>]
00:16:54 ◼ ► the chips but try to like helping Apple figure out you know what kind of G.P.U. Should they be. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1014">TS</a>]
00:17:00 ◼ ► Should they be looking for from power be art or whatever for the next device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1020">TS</a>]
00:17:04 ◼ ► or whatever like you know he could definitely be an atty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1024">TS</a>]
00:17:06 ◼ ► and I'd imagine he's he's very much qualified to do that sort of thing so but who knows. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1026">TS</a>]
00:17:12 ◼ ► and I have a feeling it might be a while before we even figure out you know what exactly he's doing you know in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1032">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► thing that's interesting to me about it is he was kind of the big cheese in this apple bubble or what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:26 ◼ ► when it comes to hardware related things I mean I think he was certainly an extremely important person in the community. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1046">TS</a>]
00:17:34 ◼ ► And if I'm maybe I'm just egotistic jerk but if I were to if I were unarmed and I was thinking whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1054">TS</a>]
00:17:42 ◼ ► or not I should go to Apple it would have it would take a lot for me to say you know what I'm going to you know hang up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1062">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► my boots or whatever the phrase is I'm thinking of and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:52 ◼ ► and I'm going to go work in a place that usually doesn't really smile upon being forthcoming. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1072">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► And being very public with what you do and his whole existence up until this point was being forthcoming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:07 ◼ ► and being public about what he did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1087">TS</a>]
00:18:09 ◼ ► And so whatever it is it's got to have scratched an itch that and an Tekken on tech couldn't scratch before. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1089">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► So I like you guys that I'm extremely interested in seeing where he ends up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:22 ◼ ► and especially if he does end up in engineering in what is that going to mean I'm not sure what his background is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1102">TS</a>]
00:18:28 ◼ ► certainly sounds the way he writes it sounds like he's either got a formal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1108">TS</a>]
00:18:32 ◼ ► or an extensive informal education in engineering. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1112">TS</a>]
00:18:35 ◼ ► I don't I guess I don't know his particular background but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1115">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► but whatever it is it's certainly an interesting move to Iran he says that Brian CLUCAS an optical engineer which you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:47 ◼ ► might have picked up by listening to the PA guess where he talks about cameras. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1127">TS</a>]
00:18:49 ◼ ► So I also don't know where he's working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1129">TS</a>]
00:18:52 ◼ ► but if he is actually a trained optical engineer that makes sense that he might have something there with cameras [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1132">TS</a>]
00:18:58 ◼ ► and Apple devices. Yeah I mean all very important areas. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1138">TS</a>]
00:19:02 ◼ ► So I think it's you know if these guys want to keep doing press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1142">TS</a>]
00:19:06 ◼ ► or review type stuff they would have kept doing that on an on an end to act like they had a great set up there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1146">TS</a>]
00:19:11 ◼ ► They don't need to go to Apple to do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1151">TS</a>]
00:19:14 ◼ ► Like I think they would need to go to Apple to do something else to do something more engineering focused maybe like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1154">TS</a>]
00:19:19 ◼ ► there's no way they're going to Apple to go make a graph of the market apartment not a chance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1159">TS</a>]
00:19:25 ◼ ► and say that Apple it's not like we're ever going to know it's not like that and they're like oh we don't know now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1165">TS</a>]
00:19:30 ◼ ► but I'm sure Apple tell exactly what now they're never going to tell us like it's you know we see em next year we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1170">TS</a>]
00:19:36 ◼ ► talk to him about it and maybe you know but like how many people do we know at Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1176">TS</a>]
00:19:41 ◼ ► and we know like what department they work in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1181">TS</a>]
00:19:42 ◼ ► and like that's it you know what specifically we're going to get you know it's like well you just accept it like you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1182">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► lucky if you can get you know hardware or software or hardware group itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:52 ◼ ► or a group that's as close as you can get usually And we don't even know if Phil Schiller does you know he does like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1192">TS</a>]
00:19:59 ◼ ► everything. And his title is like marketing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1199">TS</a>]
00:20:01 ◼ ► He goes he goes to Red Sox games right any of mountain bikes mountain bike sometime he buys R.H. For his team. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1201">TS</a>]
00:20:09 ◼ ► All we know is that he does pretty much everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1209">TS</a>]
00:20:12 ◼ ► and his title doesn't mean anything so real real time follow up the chat room is telling us that Anon has a computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1212">TS</a>]
00:20:20 ◼ ► engineering degree which is sound similar to myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1220">TS</a>]
00:20:22 ◼ ► and Surtees are from North Carolina State University which I actually very nearly went to it was between that Virginia [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1222">TS</a>]
00:20:29 ◼ ► Tech such as rich in Utah so he certainly has an engineering background now you could argue whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1229">TS</a>]
00:20:34 ◼ ► or not he's practiced that in the traditional sense of the word in the last I don't know ten years or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1234">TS</a>]
00:20:39 ◼ ► but he certainly has the education to support him being in the engineering department. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1239">TS</a>]
00:20:44 ◼ ► It's a question as to whether or not he actually is in the engineering department right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1244">TS</a>]
00:20:48 ◼ ► They wouldn't be hiring and for the stuff you learn in college [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1248">TS</a>]
00:20:50 ◼ ► or the hiring for all this time he didn't like them because. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1250">TS</a>]
00:20:54 ◼ ► and it can't it can't be underestimated like who who in the entire industry has had more contact with the vendors that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1254">TS</a>]
00:21:03 ◼ ► Apple feels competitive with hardware wise. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1263">TS</a>]
00:21:05 ◼ ► Like it's basically what kind of press goes to like you know the intel the I.D.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1265">TS</a>]
00:21:09 ◼ ► Thing and goes to Samsung in Korea and goes to you know all the manufacturers in the Far East [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1269">TS</a>]
00:21:15 ◼ ► and like just this incredibly detailed technical briefings on hardware and get to sample hardware and test it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1275">TS</a>]
00:21:21 ◼ ► and benchmark like who else has done that like this you know maybe with a couple of other web sites that are maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1281">TS</a>]
00:21:27 ◼ ► competitive like Real World tag or Extreme Tech and Tom hardware store around or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1287">TS</a>]
00:21:31 ◼ ► but what kind of person is going on that circuit being in contact with companies of the course of years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1291">TS</a>]
00:21:37 ◼ ► and years like that is the experience that you can't buy from someone who you know comes out of college education [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1297">TS</a>]
00:21:42 ◼ ► and that's what they're hiring him for. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1302">TS</a>]
00:21:44 ◼ ► and I should also note more real time follow up from a different of the show Ben Thompson a nun was more than just Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1304">TS</a>]
00:21:52 ◼ ► and he was and I didn't realize this but apparently he and his site were more of a general. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1312">TS</a>]
00:22:00 ◼ ► Hardware reviews you never read that's what you read Tom's Hardware but not on tech. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1320">TS</a>]
00:22:03 ◼ ► I really do believe in the wrong side. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1323">TS</a>]
00:22:05 ◼ ► He just got into Apple stuff like you know sort of a late comer like you and Marco you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1325">TS</a>]
00:22:09 ◼ ► and Margo moralizer I'd like to hear your view do you know all the P.C. Hardware type stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1329">TS</a>]
00:22:14 ◼ ► Well maybe Apple has a MITI seven he got sucked in because Apple stuff is really cool just like you did it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1334">TS</a>]
00:22:18 ◼ ► wasn't the retina mapper pro is first mac now I was before the May be afraid of personal Mac. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1338">TS</a>]
00:22:23 ◼ ► But like I mean the apple stuff leaked into his site sort of slowly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1343">TS</a>]
00:22:26 ◼ ► and then they just all got hooked like that I mean it had been our second go to I may have had something to do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1346">TS</a>]
00:22:31 ◼ ► that it's a lot like the way I read arse technical like I always read your reviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1351">TS</a>]
00:22:36 ◼ ► and I'll read the occasional things here and there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1356">TS</a>]
00:22:38 ◼ ► I read occasional things that are non tech I can't say I read every single post by any stretch of the imagination [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1358">TS</a>]
00:22:45 ◼ ► but like Mark I said in recent years it's been like if you want a review of the i Phone that is that is different then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1365">TS</a>]
00:22:51 ◼ ► like you know not just the product review but the guy was going to rip open the C.P.U. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1371">TS</a>]
00:22:55 ◼ ► and Talk about all the you know that's the site I would go to that was my go to site for that kind of review. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1375">TS</a>]
00:23:00 ◼ ► Yeah yeah and then those are the reviews that I read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1380">TS</a>]
00:23:02 ◼ ► but I presume that there's quite a bit more to a non-technical sat in those I did not see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1382">TS</a>]
00:23:08 ◼ ► Yeah I go there for I mean they have storage reviews are made up of lots of people writing their I mean aside I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1388">TS</a>]
00:23:12 ◼ ► it's in good hands like that he doesn't write every single thing on the side obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1392">TS</a>]
00:23:15 ◼ ► but I go there you know reviews about what's next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1395">TS</a>]
00:23:17 ◼ ► and as a season you know graphic card stuff on that site is like a lot of the P.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1397">TS</a>]
00:23:22 ◼ ► Originated inside very big on benchmarks lots of graphs you know if I want to know what video. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1402">TS</a>]
00:23:27 ◼ ► How does one of you hard compared to another I do some kind of search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1407">TS</a>]
00:23:31 ◼ ► and I think I have a big circle benchmark database for that like they're very thorough in that same vein they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1411">TS</a>]
00:23:36 ◼ ► they're great at a photo to it even though it's not there and I hope he does great things for Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1416">TS</a>]
00:23:41 ◼ ► So thumbs up for this move. Yeah good luck. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1421">TS</a>]
00:23:44 ◼ ► All right we're also sponsored this week by our friends at square space square space is the only one platform that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1424">TS</a>]
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00:24:08 ◼ ► I told the story last week about how I I was I was tasked with redoing a website for a group that I that I work with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1448">TS</a>]
00:24:16 ◼ ► and my job was to put myself out of a job as quickly as possible so they would need to need to come to me for anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1456">TS</a>]
00:24:23 ◼ ► and they were going to go with some kind of custom development self hosted thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1463">TS</a>]
00:24:26 ◼ ► and I basically said hey give me an hour and let me give me an hour and I'll show you I'll show you alternative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1466">TS</a>]
00:24:34 ◼ ► And I took I took an hour and I copied their entire site into Squarespace and I gave them a nice modern theme [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1474">TS</a>]
00:24:40 ◼ ► and everything and it was it was glorious how easy it was how how quickly I was able to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1480">TS</a>]
00:24:46 ◼ ► and how great it looking at their old site was a really antiquated in probably made in in the ninety's you know really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1486">TS</a>]
00:24:51 ◼ ► really old site and I got this new site going in and in one hour and I showed them as look here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1491">TS</a>]
00:24:56 ◼ ► You can if you want we can we can talk about your other option or we can do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1496">TS</a>]
00:25:01 ◼ ► and this cost ten bucks a month instead of three thousand dollars plus plus hosting ten bucks a month you get all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1501">TS</a>]
00:25:09 ◼ ► and they don't to worry about it you can all the stuff as much as you want without having to go with your me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1509">TS</a>]
00:25:15 ◼ ► You you can change things you can change the theme you can change the colors you can change the pictures you can change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1515">TS</a>]
00:25:21 ◼ ► and if you need help Squarespace offers twenty four seventh's support so you don't need to go through me or any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1521">TS</a>]
00:25:26 ◼ ► or any other developer you get support from them and I have met with them again this week to finalize the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1526">TS</a>]
00:25:32 ◼ ► and they're just so blown away that this is even possible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1532">TS</a>]
00:25:37 ◼ ► and better this is than what they were going to do with self hosting custom development installation and I really I am. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1537">TS</a>]
00:25:44 ◼ ► I'm so happy for them that they say a bunch of money and effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1544">TS</a>]
00:25:46 ◼ ► and I'm so happy for myself I don't have to do any work and so everybody wins. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1546">TS</a>]
00:25:51 ◼ ► If you also want this go to squarespace dot com Check it out start a free trial you can get a free trial with no credit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1551">TS</a>]
00:25:56 ◼ ► card required it's a real free trial. I'm still on their feet. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1556">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► While for this because they're about to buy it I think the next couple days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:02 ◼ ► and we you know I don't have the credit card and all the stuff anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1562">TS</a>]
00:26:05 ◼ ► I'll get will do all this without even having a credit card just set it up. It's great because I can check this out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1565">TS</a>]
00:26:11 ◼ ► Start building your Web site today. You don't even need to pay. I didn't start start building Rafat today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1571">TS</a>]
00:26:16 ◼ ► When you decide to sign in for Squarespace please make sure to use the offer code A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1576">TS</a>]
00:26:20 ◼ ► That will get you ten percent off your first purchase there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1580">TS</a>]
00:26:23 ◼ ► and it will also show your support for our show they will tell them that you came from here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1583">TS</a>]
00:26:27 ◼ ► and they'll keep buying ads to help support us so please do that use offer code A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1587">TS</a>]
00:26:31 ◼ ► Thank you very much to Squarespace once again for sponsoring our show a better Web Start with your website. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1591">TS</a>]
00:26:38 ◼ ► OK So also this week this week it's been a rough week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1598">TS</a>]
00:26:43 ◼ ► but this week it's been even more rough for a bunch of celebrities and I believe all of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1603">TS</a>]
00:26:52 ◼ ► and they really seem to have been targeted in order to get access to pictures that really the internet should not have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1612">TS</a>]
00:27:03 ◼ ► And what has happened is there's a ton of celebrities I've I heard and I honestly don't know how long list is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1623">TS</a>]
00:27:10 ◼ ► or a hundred names long tons of celebrities that have had private vote photographs stolen from them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1630">TS</a>]
00:27:20 ◼ ► And when this first happened everyone seemed to blame icloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1640">TS</a>]
00:27:25 ◼ ► and the going theory was that I believe was find my i Phone specifically did not have rate limiting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1645">TS</a>]
00:27:32 ◼ ► when you attempted to log into it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1652">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► So some enterprising if you could call it that individuals started firing away brute force dictionary attacks against [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:43 ◼ ► the Find My i Phone Service trying to figure out what the i Cloud password is for all these celebrities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1663">TS</a>]
00:27:51 ◼ ► and eventually by some mechanism be it social engineering or this find my i Phone thing or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1671">TS</a>]
00:28:00 ◼ ► Access to a bunch of celebrities private photographs which have been leaked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1680">TS</a>]
00:28:04 ◼ ► and so since this happened on a few days ago there's been a lot of debate whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1684">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► or not this is really the fault of Apple and i Cloud And there's a lot of thoughts I have on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:15 ◼ ► but let me start with you John what how do you think this is our poll or do you think this is something else. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1695">TS</a>]
00:28:21 ◼ ► How do you where do you land on all this. Well here's the thing with the story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1701">TS</a>]
00:28:25 ◼ ► The facts are thin on the ground there is very real. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1705">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► It's not clear at all about any anything about this to the pictures come from Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► or from multiple aces are they all pictures of the new pictures like an actual security flaw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:39 ◼ ► or was it a social engineering it like we know nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1719">TS</a>]
00:28:42 ◼ ► All we know is these pictures are out there on the Internet the nature of these type of things like someone stole a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1722">TS</a>]
00:28:45 ◼ ► bunch of stuff some of the ground to the Internet. It's we have no idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1725">TS</a>]
00:28:50 ◼ ► But it brings up all the same issues as we've talked about in the past. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1730">TS</a>]
00:28:56 ◼ ► Apple does far has said they have not been able to determine that there is some kind of security flaw like the rate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1736">TS</a>]
00:29:02 ◼ ► limiting thing has been fixed so that's not an issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1742">TS</a>]
00:29:05 ◼ ► and they investigated it basically their statement was something the fact that there is no like inherent exploit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1745">TS</a>]
00:29:12 ◼ ► or security flaw in like software wise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1752">TS</a>]
00:29:15 ◼ ► or seem to be saying in our system that caused the leaking of these pictures from my guess would be that these pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1755">TS</a>]
00:29:23 ◼ ► did not all come from Apple and did not all come from wherever they came from recently. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1763">TS</a>]
00:29:29 ◼ ► and again this is just a theory is not a fact that sounds plausible to me is that there is sort of an underground [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1769">TS</a>]
00:29:36 ◼ ► trading ring of you know illegally stolen digital data that is fetched from servers where people have backups [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1776">TS</a>]
00:29:44 ◼ ► or whatever and this was just a leak out of that sort of little circle of people trading this legally acquired data. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1784">TS</a>]
00:29:51 ◼ ► So it's you know there's all these are leaks self out there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1791">TS</a>]
00:29:55 ◼ ► They're not they're not leaked from the people who took the photos they were stolen from the people who took the photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1795">TS</a>]
00:30:00 ◼ ► People who stole them kept them turned selves in a little ring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1800">TS</a>]
00:30:02 ◼ ► and they were leaked out of that ring that is the theory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1802">TS</a>]
00:30:04 ◼ ► and it seems like a plausible theory to me because that type of sort of illegal software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1804">TS</a>]
00:30:08 ◼ ► or illegally acquired digital goods being sort of a secret inner circle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1808">TS</a>]
00:30:12 ◼ ► and then being pierced by somebody who let something out in the inner circles revealed that sounds like a thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1812">TS</a>]
00:30:18 ◼ ► you know I've seen before on the Internet and that sounds plausible all of this is that people want to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1818">TS</a>]
00:30:23 ◼ ► The question is how did all these pictures get from the people's phones to the possession of the people who stole them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1823">TS</a>]
00:30:31 ◼ ► and that's where we get in to talk about Apple talk about security flaws. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1831">TS</a>]
00:30:36 ◼ ► Apple is so big Surely some of these things came from Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1836">TS</a>]
00:30:39 ◼ ► We've been through this before with him that was his last name Matt Honan. Yep yep. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1839">TS</a>]
00:30:43 ◼ ► That you know the security flaws that we would talk about in the very worst ones are not technical flaws it's like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1843">TS</a>]
00:30:50 ◼ ► know don't read Kevin Mitnick spoke like it's social engineering. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1850">TS</a>]
00:30:54 ◼ ► The fact that you can call someone on the phone pretend to be someone else answer their supposed security questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1854">TS</a>]
00:30:59 ◼ ► that you can just look up on the internet about them like where they grew up or where they went to school [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1859">TS</a>]
00:31:04 ◼ ► or what their mother's maiden name is of whatever and get their password right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1864">TS</a>]
00:31:09 ◼ ► and so that no matter how strong your password is no matter how bug free Apple security software is in the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1869">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► lemming thing is a software bug too but like even if all that was perfect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:18 ◼ ► If you can just call someone on the phone and tell a sob story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1878">TS</a>]
00:31:21 ◼ ► and get into their account like What the hell's the point of the rest software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1881">TS</a>]
00:31:25 ◼ ► and that's the most difficult thing you'd like to tell everybody hey everybody make sure you have good passwords don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1885">TS</a>]
00:31:30 ◼ ► use your best of all the but it doesn't matter if someone does call back and get all your crap anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1890">TS</a>]
00:31:33 ◼ ► And what they're getting is usually like a backup of your phone like the i Cloud backup of your phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1893">TS</a>]
00:31:38 ◼ ► And so you know and even that is encrypted for them what they have in there for that and they can decrypt it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1898">TS</a>]
00:31:43 ◼ ► and you know what they get your password they can do everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1903">TS</a>]
00:31:45 ◼ ► and it's in the interest of if there is a group like this the stealing pictures of celebrities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1905">TS</a>]
00:31:50 ◼ ► and stuff like that it's in their interest not to like go into those accounts and like blackmail them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1910">TS</a>]
00:31:55 ◼ ► or like erase all their stuff they just want to get in get out steal the pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1915">TS</a>]
00:31:58 ◼ ► and you know it's going to be going on for. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1918">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► Sure has been going on for years and years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:01 ◼ ► and is not the celebrities it's like everybody with an axe to grind to get somebody to go to one of these little rings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1921">TS</a>]
00:32:05 ◼ ► and say hey can you get me a backup of my ex-girlfriends phone I want to see all her naked pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1925">TS</a>]
00:32:10 ◼ ► or whatever it's just this is a criminal enterprise that you know exploiting weaknesses in our systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1930">TS</a>]
00:32:16 ◼ ► and their weaknesses unfortunately that most customers can't do much about except I guess complain. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1936">TS</a>]
00:32:20 ◼ ► The thing that was most ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1940">TS</a>]
00:32:23 ◼ ► and surprising to me was that my understanding was a lot of people were blaming the celebrities for using like i Cloud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1943">TS</a>]
00:32:34 ◼ ► with Dropbox and things like that as though it was somehow their fault that somebody went in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1954">TS</a>]
00:32:42 ◼ ► and to your point illegally stole their pictures I know you shouldn't are going to get pictures like Are you kidding me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1962">TS</a>]
00:32:50 ◼ ► That's like saying well you left your house unlocked so it's your own fault that everything got stalled it's not even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1970">TS</a>]
00:32:55 ◼ ► like it's like well you have your money in a bank what to expect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1975">TS</a>]
00:32:58 ◼ ► when that's not your I have your money in a bank maybe you think twice about using a credit card you know you have you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1978">TS</a>]
00:33:04 ◼ ► got your car stolen Tom That's what you get for having a car I mean this is not like leaving your house unlocked is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1984">TS</a>]
00:33:09 ◼ ► like having a car having a bank account. Everybody has a smartphone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1989">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► It's not an unfortunate bad thing to have everybody take pictures with their smart like it's it's ridiculous it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:20 ◼ ► and I you know that's really this is not really the issue we're getting out here with his eye contact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2000">TS</a>]
00:33:25 ◼ ► but like you're going to really come down to is if you want to go like keep cranking up the medal levels it's the weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2005">TS</a>]
00:33:35 ◼ ► Weird as a species if you look at a really broad view go out to Mars or something but certainly in the U.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2015">TS</a>]
00:33:41 ◼ ► It's weird puritanical view of nudity and sex that we have that it's like Tad moon evil and like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2021">TS</a>]
00:33:51 ◼ ► The idea that like they're doing something wrong by taking naked pictures of themselves because if you were a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2031">TS</a>]
00:33:56 ◼ ► person you would not do that and that that's how it's different people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2036">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► Mine think giving money to bank book keeping in mind the bank is one thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:02 ◼ ► but taking naked pictures now it's exactly the same thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2042">TS</a>]
00:34:05 ◼ ► Two things that are private that your possessions you're allowed to do. It's your money it's your bank account. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2045">TS</a>]
00:34:10 ◼ ► Other people should have access to your photo so there's a photo of your plants your your house your kids you with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2050">TS</a>]
00:34:16 ◼ ► clothes on without clothes on someone's day clothes on it becomes a category of craziness that anyway that's a whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2056">TS</a>]
00:34:22 ◼ ► we're not going to fix the the problem of the United States and their screwed up attitude toward sex. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2062">TS</a>]
00:34:28 ◼ ► But that is why you get all this craziness. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2068">TS</a>]
00:34:32 ◼ ► You know coming in were people lose their minds about and it's not even worth discussing this stupidity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2072">TS</a>]
00:34:37 ◼ ► but like I think the thing is where this guy thing is forget about what they stole. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2077">TS</a>]
00:34:41 ◼ ► I don't want anybody stealing backups of my phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2081">TS</a>]
00:34:44 ◼ ► but I don't care what them you know like it's that's that's what we have to address here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2084">TS</a>]
00:34:48 ◼ ► and I just I wish Apple would work harder to I mean like so riveted a post about how the how the backups you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2088">TS</a>]
00:35:01 ◼ ► backups are a good thing because people are much more likely to lose all their photos of their kids because their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2101">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► phones on the lake and they are to get hacked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:08 ◼ ► and so it's a tradeoff between well if you just never do like live backups you're safe from hacking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2108">TS</a>]
00:35:13 ◼ ► but you could lose all your pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2113">TS</a>]
00:35:14 ◼ ► and you're much more likely to lose all your pictures your kids than you are to get hacked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2114">TS</a>]
00:35:19 ◼ ► and the other tradeoff isn't any security thing it's convenience versus security. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2119">TS</a>]
00:35:23 ◼ ► If they didn't have the stupid you know tell me your mother's maiden name in the high school you went to things people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2123">TS</a>]
00:35:28 ◼ ► would get locked out of their towns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2128">TS</a>]
00:35:29 ◼ ► and they'd be like Apple like well sorry you lost your password we never knew which a password you can get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2129">TS</a>]
00:35:33 ◼ ► and you have to raise your phone or you know be like Are you kidding me you know like the knee. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2133">TS</a>]
00:35:38 ◼ ► People forget their passwords like crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2138">TS</a>]
00:35:40 ◼ ► and so Apple is trying in the same terrible way that arouses doing to make it so that people aren't locked out of their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2140">TS</a>]
00:35:46 ◼ ► phones when they never really forget their password. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2146">TS</a>]
00:35:49 ◼ ► But what is it that you can replace a password with that is as secure as a password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2149">TS</a>]
00:35:53 ◼ ► or more secure that people won't forget. Like there's no good solution for that except for maybe a touch ID or. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2153">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► I think if I had to advise Apple on how to address this I would go more towards like the other systems that we have for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:08 ◼ ► Like I don't do a video call or somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2168">TS</a>]
00:36:11 ◼ ► and record a video of them get in touch with them make them prove through a trusted third party that they are really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2171">TS</a>]
00:36:16 ◼ ► are some sort of really annoying process that if you were concerned about security you could prove to them in a in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2176">TS</a>]
00:36:22 ◼ ► way in many different factors that you were who you were. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2182">TS</a>]
00:36:25 ◼ ► And then if someone wanted to reset their password they would have to reproduce that extremely annoying you know proof [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2185">TS</a>]
00:36:34 ◼ ► that you are you are. But most people don't want to do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2194">TS</a>]
00:36:37 ◼ ► And so Apple is kind of trying to aim for the correct balance between security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2197">TS</a>]
00:36:42 ◼ ► and convenience that inconveniences the fewest number of people but it is it is a trade off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2202">TS</a>]
00:36:47 ◼ ► and it's an imperfect trade off and it's an increasingly imperfect trade off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2207">TS</a>]
00:36:51 ◼ ► when now it's so easy to find out the answers to people's security questions but is like trolling their Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2211">TS</a>]
00:36:56 ◼ ► and stuff. Yeah. And I'm glad you jumped on me a few minutes ago in saying that it's like leaving your house unlocked. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2216">TS</a>]
00:37:04 ◼ ► and you're absolutely right that these people did nothing wrong either by means of a flaw in Apple's systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2224">TS</a>]
00:37:11 ◼ ► or perhaps some social engineering they had something they had something stole from them and stolen from them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2231">TS</a>]
00:37:19 ◼ ► And the one interesting thing to me is that when the Internet decided that this was all Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2239">TS</a>]
00:37:27 ◼ ► and i Cloud fall nobody seemed to think that was a surprising and that's a problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2247">TS</a>]
00:37:36 ◼ ► Like if everyone if there's this great huge security leak and everyone says oh well you know that cycle out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2256">TS</a>]
00:37:43 ◼ ► Like that's a big freakin problem. And a branding problem. I mean right. Yeah. And that's exactly right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2263">TS</a>]
00:37:51 ◼ ► And here it is presumably with I was late coming on Tuesday. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2271">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► Well you know being talked about on Tuesday and presumably. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2276">TS</a>]
00:38:00 ◼ ► They're going to talk about a lot of this photos in the cloud stuff that they talked about a D.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2280">TS</a>]
00:38:04 ◼ ► This is a this is not a good time for this to be happening and so I just I just feel like at some point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2284">TS</a>]
00:38:12 ◼ ► and I know we've said this thousand times at some point Apple's going to have to get really serious about their their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2292">TS</a>]
00:38:19 ◼ ► cloud services but in this regard it's not like the parts where they're not going to go to online services. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2299">TS</a>]
00:38:24 ◼ ► This is thing where a seriousness will not like it won't save them it's not like there is something that other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2304">TS</a>]
00:38:30 ◼ ► companies know how to do that Apple is refusing to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2310">TS</a>]
00:38:32 ◼ ► or as bad there is no good solution in this like two factor authentication where you where you have to authenticate not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2312">TS</a>]
00:38:38 ◼ ► just with a password or something else that you possess either they text your phone or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2318">TS</a>]
00:38:42 ◼ ► or someone point out today it's kind of ridiculous with the S.M.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2322">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► Gateway on the on the mac thing that techs will also appear on your back so someone has either thier mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► and travel ID they can get that text too but anyway two factor authentication helps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:53 ◼ ► but the reason it's like well why doesn't everybody to factor into factor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2333">TS</a>]
00:38:56 ◼ ► You kidding people can you remember the passwords to factor still to competence the balancing security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2336">TS</a>]
00:39:02 ◼ ► and the current balanced in security is already for most people's perspectives pushed too far into the side of security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2342">TS</a>]
00:39:08 ◼ ► all these passwords they have to remember it's a crappy system. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2348">TS</a>]
00:39:11 ◼ ► Touch I think helps because that's that's a security convenience thing where they can give you additional security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2351">TS</a>]
00:39:16 ◼ ► and also a lot of additional convenience of not the usual trade off that you can do there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2356">TS</a>]
00:39:19 ◼ ► but there is not some obvious thing that Apple can do like boiling apples more serious like the reason it's so easy to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2359">TS</a>]
00:39:25 ◼ ► hack your account is because it has to be that easy for all the people who forget their passwords [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2365">TS</a>]
00:39:29 ◼ ► and then just probably like thousands and thousands of them every day. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2369">TS</a>]
00:39:32 ◼ ► Forget their passwords and use that system for its legitimate purposes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2372">TS</a>]
00:39:35 ◼ ► Who'd you pissed off if they couldn't like you can't tell somebody well all your stuff is you know you forgot your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2375">TS</a>]
00:39:40 ◼ ► password you don't remember where is your backup is encrypted no one else going to decrypt about you then you've lost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2380">TS</a>]
00:39:46 ◼ ► all the pictures of your kids again I go I can prove that I mean like we don't know who you are you have nothing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2386">TS</a>]
00:39:52 ◼ ► and so that's why I think like you have to it has to be a social sort of a change in society to realize that if you care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2392">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Stuff online you have to protect it in a way that is inconvenient for you in terms of proving who you really are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:06 ◼ ► and at the very least start with having system the two factors One example that if you care about it you can go through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2406">TS</a>]
00:40:12 ◼ ► and go through the hassle for the increased security they should have a step up from that that involves like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2412">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► authenticating who you are in every possible way using all technology in our disposal and the legal system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:22 ◼ ► and everything else to really really prove you are where you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2422">TS</a>]
00:40:25 ◼ ► and to also quote Ben Thompson he wrote a piece today which is in the chat room over in the show notes about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2425">TS</a>]
00:40:35 ◼ ► and I think the way he phrased it is really good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2435">TS</a>]
00:40:38 ◼ ► The problem is that Apple has no reservoir of goodwill when it comes to i Cloud And in this case it may [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2438">TS</a>]
00:40:45 ◼ ► or may not even be that i Cloud was the issue. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2445">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► It may be to your point John a bunch of really really great social engineering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:52 ◼ ► but that still let's talk about I mean social engineering of Apple's affair. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2452">TS</a>]
00:40:56 ◼ ► So yeah I guess what I'm saying is if it could be that i Cloud was reasonably proficiency at blocking these sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2456">TS</a>]
00:41:06 ◼ ► attacks I'm not saying it is or it isn't but it could be that it was yet because we all know in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2466">TS</a>]
00:41:12 ◼ ► or assume that i Cloud is a steaming pile of crap. As soon as somebody theorize that i Cloud is the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2472">TS</a>]
00:41:19 ◼ ► The entire internet decided it must be i Cloud because people because people can't differentiate between like well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2479">TS</a>]
00:41:26 ◼ ► and responsive in their up time is bad versus like security flaws versus a fledging Yeah you're right it just goes all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2486">TS</a>]
00:41:31 ◼ ► in the same bin and the fact it is i Phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2491">TS</a>]
00:41:33 ◼ ► or popular i Phones are popular with celebrities celebrities are you know like because who knows where these pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2493">TS</a>]
00:41:38 ◼ ► came from some of them surely came from I thought some of them surely came other places doesn't matter just really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2498">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► matters what's the headline the story. But I mean Apple can. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:46 ◼ ► I'm sure Apple won't make reference to this I'm assuming they won't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2506">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► but like all talk about this in a bit on the September ninth event when they're going to introduce a new i Phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:56 ◼ ► or you know Touch ID is a step in the right direction with this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2516">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► Granted you can fool it is not as secure as whatever involved but it's it's an additional factor right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:05 ◼ ► And they have you know existing two factor authentication like Apple is clearly trying to find ways to make things more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2525">TS</a>]
00:42:14 ◼ ► Instead of just saying OK we'll give you like what I was suggesting which is like make it more secure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2534">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► and less convenient for the people who need that security like give them the option. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:23 ◼ ► Another thing I have you know in response to this as I usually do like well to have general password again like I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2543">TS</a>]
00:42:28 ◼ ► you know why not make it even more ridiculous anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2548">TS</a>]
00:42:32 ◼ ► When I was doing that when I tried to log log into my apple idea like Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2552">TS</a>]
00:42:39 ◼ ► or something I said what I was originally going in was to see what my security questions were to make sure they weren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2559">TS</a>]
00:42:45 ◼ ► like make sure they were nonsense basically and not the truth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2565">TS</a>]
00:42:49 ◼ ► or something coming to look up because they only give you a choice of like questions that anybody can look up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2569">TS</a>]
00:42:53 ◼ ► and it wouldn't even let me into my account like let me see my security questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2573">TS</a>]
00:42:57 ◼ ► or anything about my car because soon as I logged in it said Your password is too insecure please set a new one I got I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2577">TS</a>]
00:43:03 ◼ ► couldn't get any of my the resource you can see my e-mail address can see my mailing address my payment info I You [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2583">TS</a>]
00:43:08 ◼ ► couldn't get to the interface and he said everything worked fine I could still log in and use all my stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2588">TS</a>]
00:43:12 ◼ ► but trying to you know manage your Apple I.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2592">TS</a>]
00:43:15 ◼ ► They are apparently trying to enforce better passwords by detail by deciding whose password is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2595">TS</a>]
00:43:20 ◼ ► or isn't secure so you know I change my password to make it more secure. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2600">TS</a>]
00:43:24 ◼ ► I also looked at by security questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2604">TS</a>]
00:43:26 ◼ ► and you know you know that it does security best you can do that I don't know how much that protects me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2606">TS</a>]
00:43:30 ◼ ► If someone is really smooth at the bad you know telephone rep they can probably still social engineer their way in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2610">TS</a>]
00:43:37 ◼ ► But yeah I mean and to factor helps but you know security is a constant battle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2617">TS</a>]
00:43:43 ◼ ► and you know we can we can all keep talking about how you know Apple could add all these things in to make things more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2623">TS</a>]
00:43:48 ◼ ► secure give us options to lock things down more tightly and everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2628">TS</a>]
00:43:52 ◼ ► but one of the biggest problems is if these things are not the default or the only way to do things then they're not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2632">TS</a>]
00:44:00 ◼ ► Really going to protect most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2640">TS</a>]
00:44:01 ◼ ► and you know most most of the celebrities who were targeted for this for this mass theft over whatever amount time it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2641">TS</a>]
00:44:08 ◼ ► was. They would be a good portion of them probably would have all their phones on whatever the default settings were. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2648">TS</a>]
00:44:16 ◼ ► And so unless you make the default crazy complicated and make that the only option. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2656">TS</a>]
00:44:23 ◼ ► Having the options is not going to really help most people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2663">TS</a>]
00:44:26 ◼ ► Well celebrities might be motivated to like him a word to get around among celebrities like when you get an i Phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2666">TS</a>]
00:44:32 ◼ ► and ask you if you want to use your fingerprint as a second factor say yes like you know this this type of thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2672">TS</a>]
00:44:37 ◼ ► something for people who are like targeted by likely be targeted by these attacks even if they're not tech savvy as an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2677">TS</a>]
00:44:43 ◼ ► example to the pretty good job of like during your like phone set up dates like you should set a password. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2683">TS</a>]
00:44:49 ◼ ► PASCOE And if you try to know it like Are you sure you don't have a pass code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2689">TS</a>]
00:44:51 ◼ ► and same thing with such ideas like they're trying to encourage people to be more secure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2691">TS</a>]
00:44:56 ◼ ► and I think socially within groups of people who feel they are targeted for potential hacks have some motivation to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2696">TS</a>]
00:45:03 ◼ ► Yes you you know your phone doesn't have like like lock your phone doesn't have a lock code you can tell I have a lock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2703">TS</a>]
00:45:08 ◼ ► or your phone doesn't also use touch you could totally use that you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2708">TS</a>]
00:45:11 ◼ ► So there's hope there I think we're so breaking news as we're recording on this Thursday night. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2711">TS</a>]
00:45:19 ◼ ► Apparently Tim Cook has given a statement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2719">TS</a>]
00:45:22 ◼ ► or interview of some sort to The Wall Street Journal because the Wall Street Journal is a bunch of idiots who thinks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2722">TS</a>]
00:45:28 ◼ ► that they have to block all their content. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2728">TS</a>]
00:45:31 ◼ ► All I can read the following in his first interview on the subject Apple chief executive Tim Cook said slip now it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2731">TS</a>]
00:45:38 ◼ ► getting really really hard to read celebrities i Cloud accounts were compromised [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2738">TS</a>]
00:45:43 ◼ ► when the hackers correctly answer security questions to obtain their passwords or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2743">TS</a>]
00:45:47 ◼ ► when they were victimized by a thank you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2747">TS</a>]
00:45:49 ◼ ► I deleted the thing on the diamond SPECTER So I had to first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2749">TS</a>]
00:45:54 ◼ ► and try to pay all that actually don't put the whole text there which is a shame the Google trick still works. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2754">TS</a>]
00:45:58 ◼ ► I tried that. Work for me. Maybe it's easier if I paste this into our Skype chat is that copyright infringement. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2758">TS</a>]
00:46:05 ◼ ► Now go ahead but I don't think we need to read it but anyway you can but you don't put a link to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2765">TS</a>]
00:46:09 ◼ ► and do it do whatever on the website you had as you just put a link to the Google you know results of people going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2769">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► anywhere like they said enough on our software other than the rate limiting which obviously they fixed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:18 ◼ ► and you know they found. I'm not surprised they found us that like they can find. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2778">TS</a>]
00:46:23 ◼ ► OK Pick some celebrities account with their permission say we'd like to investigate how you got hacked. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2783">TS</a>]
00:46:27 ◼ ► Find out how they got hacked with some I called Apple Support Line. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2787">TS</a>]
00:46:30 ◼ ► Answer the security questions got their stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2790">TS</a>]
00:46:32 ◼ ► and that's exactly what I was talking about like that that's not the security questions are less secure than a password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2792">TS</a>]
00:46:39 ◼ ► Because when you forgot your password they want you to have some way to get your stuff back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2799">TS</a>]
00:46:44 ◼ ► and if you forgot your password we need to have something that you are less likely forget you're less less likely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2804">TS</a>]
00:46:48 ◼ ► forget who your second grade teacher was right then you are to have your password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2808">TS</a>]
00:46:51 ◼ ► but it's also easy to get like it's you know it's a trade off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2811">TS</a>]
00:46:55 ◼ ► and it is a very bad trade off for people who could potentially be targeted so I think Apple is working in the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2815">TS</a>]
00:47:01 ◼ ► direction over there with the biometric stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2821">TS</a>]
00:47:03 ◼ ► and I think they should continue to go even farther in those even though little pictures video voiceprint like we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2823">TS</a>]
00:47:08 ◼ ► prove to each other more a last couple generations having difficulty proving to each other that we are who we are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2828">TS</a>]
00:47:15 ◼ ► because we have a distinctive look people recognize us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2835">TS</a>]
00:47:18 ◼ ► Eventually there's enough social proof that you are more common to people see you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2838">TS</a>]
00:47:22 ◼ ► and say Sam you don't have a twin brother as far as we know you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2842">TS</a>]
00:47:26 ◼ ► and I think surgery is not good enough to match you exactly we don't have holograms like we're in a place where we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2846">TS</a>]
00:47:31 ◼ ► prove you are you are we just need to convey more than ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2851">TS</a>]
00:47:35 ◼ ► and we have the thing is we have the technology to convey more of that information about proving who you are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2855">TS</a>]
00:47:39 ◼ ► We have video we have audio we have touch sensors we can make this happen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/2859">TS</a>]
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00:50:00 ◼ ► Project files are the premium when you can download example files it's really great. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:04 ◼ ► Anyway court is restructured so you can learn from start to finish. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3004">TS</a>]
00:50:06 ◼ ► Or you can jump in to find a quick answer there's a great indexing of the content you can click on any phrase you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3006">TS</a>]
00:50:12 ◼ ► see a transcript on the side you can click on it jump to that point in the video. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3012">TS</a>]
00:50:16 ◼ ► Now the great thing is you can try this for free they have a free trial offer here for seven days are going to Lynda [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3016">TS</a>]
00:50:21 ◼ ► dot com That's L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. and You'll get a free seven day trial once again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3021">TS</a>]
00:50:29 ◼ ► When the dot com L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3029">TS</a>]
00:50:33 ◼ ► For a free seventy trial check out Linda for these great video tutorials. I cannot recommend them enough. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3033">TS</a>]
00:50:38 ◼ ► I've used them myself and they're fantastic thank you very much. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3038">TS</a>]
00:50:41 ◼ ► So we're recording this on Thursday the fourth will hopefully be out on Friday the fifth maybe Saturday the sixth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3041">TS</a>]
00:50:51 ◼ ► Apple is releasing something new so it would be wrong of us to not to at least spend a few moments discussing what we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3051">TS</a>]
00:51:01 ◼ ► expect to see. So Marco What do you expect to see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3061">TS</a>]
00:51:05 ◼ ► I mean there's the obvious stuff that's the stuff that like the rumor sites have basically you know there's been enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3065">TS</a>]
00:51:11 ◼ ► and enough parts leaks to tough we've seen videos of assembled purported i Phone six is right that one even powered on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3071">TS</a>]
00:51:20 ◼ ► and showed the firmware update screen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3080">TS</a>]
00:51:24 ◼ ► Yes I think if you can boot a new i Phone in to be a few mode I think it's probably confirmation that it exists. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3084">TS</a>]
00:51:31 ◼ ► I think it's pretty clear we're getting a four point seven inch i Phone six at the bare minimum Now hold on I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3091">TS</a>]
00:51:38 ◼ ► The thing in the video that was the four point seven inch because that thing looked huge to me though that we haven't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3098">TS</a>]
00:51:45 ◼ ► We've seen almost nothing from a five point five inch I believe somebody's got a back panel like a couple days ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3105">TS</a>]
00:51:50 ◼ ► or something that might be ferment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3110">TS</a>]
00:51:51 ◼ ► but we've seen in general we've seen effectively nothing about the five point five I saw this device this new purported [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3111">TS</a>]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Person's hand and I thought it looked enormous and if that's the four point five four point seven whatever it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3120">TS</a>]
00:52:05 ◼ ► Man I don't know if I can handle that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3125">TS</a>]
00:52:07 ◼ ► Say work were close enough to the event now that of the five point five wasn't a real thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3127">TS</a>]
00:52:12 ◼ ► You would have you would think that Apple would do that thing it does where it gets the message out that maybe a five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3132">TS</a>]
00:52:17 ◼ ► point five is not a real thing right like so there would be a leaked report on Bloomberg the U.S.G.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3137">TS</a>]
00:52:22 ◼ ► Saying like Oh well actually even even not lad like they they can make their official statements [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3142">TS</a>]
00:52:28 ◼ ► or statements through people that liked that member like remember the W.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3148">TS</a>]
00:52:31 ◼ ► when They were going to have hardware that made it clear they were going to have hardware that they're going to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3151">TS</a>]
00:52:34 ◼ ► hardware. Yeah yeah they don't care in the months leading up to a right before the event. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3154">TS</a>]
00:52:39 ◼ ► I feel like there was in going to be two sizes of i Phones big an even bigger. They would have been saying some things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3159">TS</a>]
00:52:46 ◼ ► Yeah like getting the word out so I'm I'm I'm with Marco four point seven five point five i Phones I'm I'm also totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3166">TS</a>]
00:52:53 ◼ ► in agreement that everyone has said that the five of us could be more expensive. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3173">TS</a>]
00:52:57 ◼ ► Not just because they wanted differentiable because it's the bigger screen cost more money bigger batteries cost more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3177">TS</a>]
00:53:02 ◼ ► money and that's a lot of the cost of the phone is in the screen in a battery. So yeah those are the easy ones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3182">TS</a>]
00:53:09 ◼ ► Yeah there's been a couple of recent very recent rumors like in the last couple days saying that both the that the i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3189">TS</a>]
00:53:15 ◼ ► Pad air to be unveiled. So a new i Pad air with like an anti-glare screen which sounds interesting and better touch I.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3195">TS</a>]
00:53:23 ◼ ► Sensor like second generation touch ready sensor that than the i Pad will get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3203">TS</a>]
00:53:27 ◼ ► and then the the phone of course we're going to do well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3207">TS</a>]
00:53:29 ◼ ► And another recent rumors that the wearable device will be announced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3209">TS</a>]
00:53:33 ◼ ► but it won't ship until next year so there's a whole bunch of recent craziness surrounding this event. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3213">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► They're also building that that giant white structure that I think the most plausible speculation people have had it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:45 ◼ ► actually a concert venue for you to to perform. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3225">TS</a>]
00:53:49 ◼ ► Who knows what we do know is that anything we say in this show predicting what's going to be there beyond a new i Phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3229">TS</a>]
00:53:58 ◼ ► We're probably going to look back at next week. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3238">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Because well I don't you think we can all be safe in saying that there is a better than fifty fifty chance that they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:07 ◼ ► going to announce a wearable. I don't think so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3247">TS</a>]
00:54:11 ◼ ► I feel safe in saying that just because if this was going to be only an i Phone event the invitation would have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3251">TS</a>]
00:54:17 ◼ ► Did you see they have that account down page for the live stream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3257">TS</a>]
00:54:21 ◼ ► and it's like they're so much more like their how they're hyping this up a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3261">TS</a>]
00:54:24 ◼ ► Apple is hyping this up more than usual right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3264">TS</a>]
00:54:26 ◼ ► and it's a giant venue that they like the Flint Center is way bigger than the normal venue they invited like tons of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3266">TS</a>]
00:54:32 ◼ ► press to this thing it is it's not like in the little town hall it's not in the it's a huge venue they're building this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3272">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► big structure which you know why I assume is going to be there be like it's not the events not going to be there so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:45 ◼ ► it's likely there are hands on area or you to consider like you know who knows what it's like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3285">TS</a>]
00:54:51 ◼ ► It seems like a much bigger deal and you wouldn't do this if it was just a bunch of i Phones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3291">TS</a>]
00:54:55 ◼ ► or even if it was i Phones and i Pads and so what are we expecting from Apple wearables or T.V. Thing T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3295">TS</a>]
00:55:00 ◼ ► Thing doesn't seem like it's in the cards I have heard much smoke about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3300">TS</a>]
00:55:03 ◼ ► So you got to say a wearable thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3303">TS</a>]
00:55:06 ◼ ► and I also agree with the rumors that say it probably won't ship because shipping will be single leaks like they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3306">TS</a>]
00:55:11 ◼ ► that they get to do the same thing at it with the original i Phone way pre-announce it because it's not like you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3311">TS</a>]
00:55:16 ◼ ► killing sales of an existing product. Right after new all those government F.C.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3316">TS</a>]
00:55:19 ◼ ► Stuff and other things that will cause it to leak and post manufacturing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3319">TS</a>]
00:55:22 ◼ ► and design things so you know announce it first. Problem solved. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3322">TS</a>]
00:55:27 ◼ ► and also I think this like so far you know if Apple makes any new products we see partly it's like if they make anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3327">TS</a>]
00:55:35 ◼ ► that's a bet that's going to ship imminently. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3335">TS</a>]
00:55:37 ◼ ► We see parts we can advance because they're making things at such big scale that people that people care about things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3337">TS</a>]
00:55:42 ◼ ► that people care about because not enough people cared about the mac pro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3342">TS</a>]
00:55:45 ◼ ► and that they also weren't making that in massive volumes like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3345">TS</a>]
00:55:50 ◼ ► Yeah you know but you don't see like leaks of new IMAX and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3350">TS</a>]
00:55:53 ◼ ► or remember the matter of laptops their bestselling laptops it's like man I don't really know really cares I hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3353">TS</a>]
00:55:58 ◼ ► but again you know the volume the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3358">TS</a>]
00:56:00 ◼ ► There that they're producing they're like you know they sell so many i Phones that they can't keep an eye for under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3360">TS</a>]
00:56:05 ◼ ► wraps during the massive ramp up of getting the manufacturing going before lunch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3365">TS</a>]
00:56:09 ◼ ► and so they definitely run the same risk with a wearable thing that if they release a compelling wearable device they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3369">TS</a>]
00:56:16 ◼ ► probably going to sell about ten of them very very shortly after launch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3376">TS</a>]
00:56:19 ◼ ► and so the especially you know well we're going to miss the holiday season [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3379">TS</a>]
00:56:22 ◼ ► but regardless they're going to sell a ton of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3382">TS</a>]
00:56:24 ◼ ► and so they're probably announcing it very far in advance if that is indeed what they're doing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3384">TS</a>]
00:56:30 ◼ ► Just so they can control the reveal of it you know if it crushes them when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3390">TS</a>]
00:56:35 ◼ ► when they have this cool big secret thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3395">TS</a>]
00:56:37 ◼ ► and then the you know the Internet ruins it with parts leaks in months ahead of time or weeks ahead of time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3397">TS</a>]
00:56:41 ◼ ► I'm sure Apple wants to control every bit of the narrative of how this new device if it exists sounds like we do exist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3401">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► of how this device is unveiled to the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:51 ◼ ► and you know suppose we've got to partly suppose some rumor site had some picture of some like you know a wrist cuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3411">TS</a>]
00:57:00 ◼ ► with the with the screen in the top and of the Apple logo on the back and and that's all we knew about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3420">TS</a>]
00:57:05 ◼ ► You know that would be you know anti-climactic at least and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3425">TS</a>]
00:57:10 ◼ ► and you know possibly underwhelming it's like oh well they're just making something that looks like a nice smart watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3430">TS</a>]
00:57:16 ◼ ► and that's all they would know and like that the whole narrative would be controlled by the rumor cycle and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3436">TS</a>]
00:57:21 ◼ ► and the speculative press whereas if they have this event to show it off to us for the first time they control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3441">TS</a>]
00:57:26 ◼ ► everything about how it's perceived. They set the tone they set the talking points. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3446">TS</a>]
00:57:32 ◼ ► and then we get to go around telling everyone else their talking points about why it's so cool that's so much better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3452">TS</a>]
00:57:38 ◼ ► than trying to fight with the leaks and trying to stay ahead of the of the P.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3458">TS</a>]
00:57:42 ◼ ► On those so I think it's very clear why they would do something this very far in advance for a brand new kind of device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3462">TS</a>]
00:57:49 ◼ ► like this a kind of think of when they did it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3469">TS</a>]
00:57:52 ◼ ► There's no existing product you get to do it because you get a print out because you know killing sales of existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3472">TS</a>]
00:57:56 ◼ ► products but then if it is an existing one like the phones like this. It's like I think the last one I can remember. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3476">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► Well this is still in a result I think was going to say like the original i Pad didn't leak. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:06 ◼ ► People cared about the i Pad people cared a lot about the tablet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3486">TS</a>]
00:58:10 ◼ ► and I think they announced that not too long before I went on sale but we had no leak [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3490">TS</a>]
00:58:15 ◼ ► and another there was that much alike. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3495">TS</a>]
00:58:16 ◼ ► It's you know tablets today the whole issue is like what's going to be on the screen but yet like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3496">TS</a>]
00:58:21 ◼ ► when they've had to combat leaks like I think about the five S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3501">TS</a>]
00:58:24 ◼ ► Like there was going to be gold one we already knew was going to be go home I saw all the parts they had in their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3504">TS</a>]
00:58:29 ◼ ► presentation they had to sort of work their magic to say I know you've seen lots of pictures of this gold back plate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3509">TS</a>]
00:58:35 ◼ ► and different things you see the darker role one of these in a wider goal the one I'm using next to the gray one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3515">TS</a>]
00:58:40 ◼ ► but we're going to show you a nice highly produced video with this liquid gold melting stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3520">TS</a>]
00:58:44 ◼ ► and tell you why it's Graydon but John and I have up there to tilt his head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3524">TS</a>]
00:58:47 ◼ ► and tell you about the diamond cut chamfer and also has a sham for and it will be great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3527">TS</a>]
00:58:52 ◼ ► and you will forget all about the other stuff and you kind of do forget [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3532">TS</a>]
00:58:56 ◼ ► but you're right Marco it's so much better to not have any of that to compete with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3536">TS</a>]
00:59:01 ◼ ► and just say your first your first picture your first introduction to this thing will be through marketing materials [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3541">TS</a>]
00:59:08 ◼ ► You'll see it in the best light in the context we want you to see it in the purposes we think is the thing is going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3548">TS</a>]
00:59:13 ◼ ► and by the way speaking of our Because a lot of people in chat room talking about oh you want to better authentication [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3553">TS</a>]
00:59:18 ◼ ► for i Cloud Security Well this response might help. Yeah it might. But does touch I.D. Sensor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3558">TS</a>]
00:59:23 ◼ ► I'm not sure something that strapped on to a restaurant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3563">TS</a>]
00:59:25 ◼ ► and the other part of your body has any better access to proving you are who you are OTHER THAN the same ways that a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3565">TS</a>]
00:59:31 ◼ ► phone or video or some other thing can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3571">TS</a>]
00:59:33 ◼ ► but anyway that's that's an angle we can look for these it's interesting to me that Apple is gone is so enthusiastic to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3573">TS</a>]
00:59:46 ◼ ► have put up a countdown like it seems so not happily to me to put up this countdown like this I mean generally speaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3586">TS</a>]
00:59:55 ◼ ► my impression of Apple is they come out of nowhere and just drops. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3595">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► Palm in say hey this thing you never knew you wanted. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:04 ◼ ► Not only is it a thing but just what you wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3604">TS</a>]
01:00:07 ◼ ► and it's surprising to me to see this countdown basically saying this thing that we all know we're probably going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3607">TS</a>]
01:00:14 ◼ ► talk about we're going to talk about it and forty S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3614">TS</a>]
01:00:17 ◼ ► Fourteen hours forty nine minutes and four seconds on the kind of downs before like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3617">TS</a>]
01:00:21 ◼ ► Keep in mind this is account on a page where the only line is wish we could say more like they don't even give you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3621">TS</a>]
01:00:27 ◼ ► or hint there like they've gone so far as to make a little twisting Apple thing to show a little lion behind the back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3627">TS</a>]
01:00:34 ◼ ► of them acting like they ought to give you some kind of they even at the handling make sense in retrospect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3634">TS</a>]
01:00:38 ◼ ► This one I like you did nothing to get a white Apple over the hole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3638">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► and you get a statement that could only be construed of it's like I wish we could make Siri say more things are some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:48 ◼ ► Script stuff like that like we were just desperate to try to mine any no good immigration [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3648">TS</a>]
01:00:51 ◼ ► but they're essentially saying you know I know that you know that I know that you know that I have not I got you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3651">TS</a>]
01:00:59 ◼ ► and that's and really like the stakes in this could not be higher. First of all putting aside like the port C.E.O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3659">TS</a>]
01:01:06 ◼ ► If it who's going to be watching I think you are saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3666">TS</a>]
01:01:09 ◼ ► and putting aside that this is kind of the you know this is Tim Cook's like not going to say make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3669">TS</a>]
01:01:15 ◼ ► or break it moment but this is an important moment for Tim Cook Apple because previously the big plane was yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3675">TS</a>]
01:01:20 ◼ ► Find Jimmy doing well with a company in stock prices like doubled or whatever things you do go over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3680">TS</a>]
01:01:25 ◼ ► and sell more than ever but how can you have a revolutionize the whatever world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3685">TS</a>]
01:01:29 ◼ ► and you know where's the i Watch where is right the world so he was going to be a new product categories talked about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3689">TS</a>]
01:01:35 ◼ ► it for a long time he's been talking about it probably too long. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3695">TS</a>]
01:01:38 ◼ ► If it happens it seems very likely to happen now or sometime this year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3698">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► and so this is you know people are going to look at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:46 ◼ ► and say OK well finally Apple enters a new product category under Tim Cook. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3706">TS</a>]
01:01:52 ◼ ► Does it look like it's good to look like it's going to going to be popular does look like a stinker. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3712">TS</a>]
01:01:56 ◼ ► People and even then like you know people bought the i Pad was a stinker too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3716">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► And that sold pretty well so this is an important moment for Apple and for Tim Cook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:06 ◼ ► and it will be an important rest of the year especially Klingon ship of the next year to really know until like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3726">TS</a>]
01:02:11 ◼ ► first big burst of people who are desperate to have this thing get it and the reviews come in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3731">TS</a>]
01:02:15 ◼ ► and you know the whole nine yards. So it's an interesting time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3735">TS</a>]
01:02:19 ◼ ► The other interesting thing to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3739">TS</a>]
01:02:20 ◼ ► and we alluded to this earlier was a dear friend of the show underscored David Smith pointed out the relative seating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3740">TS</a>]
01:02:28 ◼ ► capacity of Apple event venues the campus town hall three hundred one point a center seven hundred fifty seven Flint [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3748">TS</a>]
01:02:37 ◼ ► Center where Tuesday's event is happening two thousand four hundred five. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3757">TS</a>]
01:02:43 ◼ ► I mean obviously like you both said earlier this is they Apple is of the opinion that this is going to be big. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3763">TS</a>]
01:02:50 ◼ ► If you look at the things that were released in the Flint Center someone tweeted that as well I think it was like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3770">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► original Mac. The IMAX and then some product it was totally forgettable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3774">TS</a>]
01:02:58 ◼ ► You know it's a bigger venue that's all you know it's like it's way bigger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3778">TS</a>]
01:03:02 ◼ ► and sunny because it's obvious I mean they they built a whole temporary building like something is going down here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3782">TS</a>]
01:03:06 ◼ ► and if they do this just drive onto would be a terrible strategic blunder. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3786">TS</a>]
01:03:10 ◼ ► So I think it's not going to be I thought they are going to be great you know I'm sure they will. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3790">TS</a>]
01:03:15 ◼ ► And very interesting and by the way we do need to mention N.F.C. Near field communication. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3795">TS</a>]
01:03:19 ◼ ► You know end of the wireless thing that lets you not touch your phone to something to sort of bring in nearby to sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3799">TS</a>]
01:03:25 ◼ ► of swipe over Apple's payment system that they're working on as more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3805">TS</a>]
01:03:28 ◼ ► and more rumors about that of you know the deal they're making with the gravitas most of the deals they're making with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3808">TS</a>]
01:03:33 ◼ ► the banks to lower the fees to make you know like it's all like all the things that we we talk about N.F.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3813">TS</a>]
01:03:39 ◼ ► and I Phones for years now and now it looks like it might actually come to pass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3819">TS</a>]
01:03:43 ◼ ► and that could be integrated with some sort of thing that you wear as well so there's a lot of long rumored things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3823">TS</a>]
01:03:48 ◼ ► coming to a head in this September ninth event. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3828">TS</a>]
01:03:52 ◼ ► Yeah I think it's going to be as big as they're hyping up to be because I don't I think Apple is smart enough to know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3832">TS</a>]
01:03:59 ◼ ► now. The hype of something that ends up being other i Pod Hi-Fi. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3839">TS</a>]
01:04:02 ◼ ► Yeah and and by the way size of the invite a lot of people I got invited to the event as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3842">TS</a>]
01:04:07 ◼ ► and much to the chagrin of everybody who knows me I will not be at the event. I'll come on really well are the worst. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3847">TS</a>]
01:04:12 ◼ ► Yeah I know you all hated much right now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3852">TS</a>]
01:04:15 ◼ ► I mean yeah that's that's just a you know they're probably they'll be plenty of people there to cover it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3855">TS</a>]
01:04:22 ◼ ► If I went I wouldn't be covering it it would just you know are the transferable tickets because if no I do not yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3862">TS</a>]
01:04:28 ◼ ► there's nothing transferable Believe me this will be a well covered event it will be live streamed delegates if this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3868">TS</a>]
01:04:34 ◼ ► ends up being something really major and like of historic value you could have gone and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3874">TS</a>]
01:04:39 ◼ ► and you're not going to go back in time to the original Mac. Intro maybe I would go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3879">TS</a>]
01:04:44 ◼ ► I've seen a lot of that you know like maybe I'll regret it you're right but like I am an exciting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3884">TS</a>]
01:04:49 ◼ ► and important as the wearable is to Apple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3889">TS</a>]
01:04:51 ◼ ► Thus far I am not particularly personally excited about a wearable right here I think that I don't have an i Phone I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3891">TS</a>]
01:05:01 ◼ ► could I could get end up getting this i Phone am I going to get a watch Casey and I will watch your kids. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3901">TS</a>]
01:05:07 ◼ ► We will go to your house and watch your good it's expense and I think time off work and we will buy your ticket. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3907">TS</a>]
01:05:13 ◼ ► Yeah honestly I am I I we lived through it are it's all that ongoing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3913">TS</a>]
01:05:18 ◼ ► and I go I would go halves these with Marco on your ticket just to send your butt out there. You're the worst. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3918">TS</a>]
01:05:26 ◼ ► Anyway I will be watching it live with the rest of the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3926">TS</a>]
01:05:29 ◼ ► and I will get the experience the same way I don't need to I don't need to be with the people who are actually covered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3929">TS</a>]
01:05:34 ◼ ► but I wouldn't be covering the event like what I'm going to have you know really see I am doing something functional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3934">TS</a>]
01:05:39 ◼ ► there I'm not just there for you know for my own edification I'm there to do research for a view that I then do so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3939">TS</a>]
01:05:48 ◼ ► Do you do anything for fun I do know her well. Anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3948">TS</a>]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Now if you're not a hook yet you have to tell us what you can both answer this question for me I am confident. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3960">TS</a>]
01:06:07 ◼ ► What do you do anything for fun. Yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3967">TS</a>]
01:06:08 ◼ ► Names and handlers know no names are they going to move on I guess you might play video games. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3968">TS</a>]
01:06:14 ◼ ► You're one of the other I think a long time and I want to know what people are going to what else do I do for fun. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3974">TS</a>]
01:06:20 ◼ ► You can think of. You watch a lot of T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3980">TS</a>]
01:06:24 ◼ ► but you don't know those who want to get angry with me sir I was very like what did you do for fun like I passed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3984">TS</a>]
01:06:31 ◼ ► I don't wish for things that I do ever funny I can't think of anything at all I know is so my dad used to have I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/3991">TS</a>]
01:06:41 ◼ ► they were like season tickets to the Fillmore East which I think was somewhere in either in New York city [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4001">TS</a>]
01:06:46 ◼ ► or suburb of New York City years ago and he had like tickets to freaking every concert that was going on there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4006">TS</a>]
01:06:53 ◼ ► and I think it was a New Year's Eve show or something like that that Jimi Hendrix was playing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4013">TS</a>]
01:06:58 ◼ ► and he thought well I'll see him another time and let me tell you my dad I think this was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4018">TS</a>]
01:07:22 ◼ ► when he was roughly twenty when this was an option for him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4042">TS</a>]
01:07:27 ◼ ► and he's still complaining about the fact that he didn't go to that Jimi Hendrix concert [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4047">TS</a>]
01:07:32 ◼ ► but no John you do what you think well OK see I did see Steve Jobs's last you know in person. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4052">TS</a>]
01:07:38 ◼ ► Keeping these devices in sync was driving us crazy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4058">TS</a>]
01:07:45 ◼ ► and Marco So I feel like I didn't miss out on that if this is going to last you know that I am a certain person I'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4065">TS</a>]
01:07:54 ◼ ► I had a chance to go to the Phish concert with the giant meat stick a few years ago that New Year's Eve concert. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4074">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► No there is you know is about as far south america is terrible and now Ben Thompson's in the chat taunting Marco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:18 ◼ ► and I saying oh wow I got an invite to you but I don't think it's worth flying twenty six. You people are terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4098">TS</a>]
01:08:23 ◼ ► Another person is not going it's like you know we're going to I'm going to see the announcement in real time so I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4103">TS</a>]
01:08:28 ◼ ► going to know about it's not a secret thing of happening every We're all going to see it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4108">TS</a>]
01:08:31 ◼ ► I'll probably have a better view here than I would in that giant auditoriums. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4111">TS</a>]
01:08:36 ◼ ► It's not like I'm going to get a review unit it's not like I'm going to write a review I'm not even going to cover the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4116">TS</a>]
01:08:40 ◼ ► event there's no reason for me to be there. Well you could you would probably be invited to the hands on area at least. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4120">TS</a>]
01:08:45 ◼ ► Yes they spend five seconds with that until what Mossberg slaps and the way I don't know I know I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4125">TS</a>]
01:08:53 ◼ ► but I want to dance on or of the nose. See you again. I don't know if it'll be fine. Trust me it'll be OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4133">TS</a>]
01:09:01 ◼ ► So angry at you. And we don. I'm so angry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4141">TS</a>]
01:09:08 ◼ ► Oh my God this is the worst that we have they have to show to get to as I say we're done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4148">TS</a>]
01:09:12 ◼ ► and I feel I feel they are going to be I'll save others a dominant event last chance to get in productions I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4152">TS</a>]
01:09:18 ◼ ► nothing bright to say. I'm so angry right now it's clouding my ability to think. Thanks to other responses. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4158">TS</a>]
01:09:27 ◼ ► Harry's Squarespace and Linda dot com and we'll see you next week. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4167">TS</a>]
01:09:32 ◼ ► When John is not going to this event to be it was accidental and he is sort of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4172">TS</a>]
01:10:00 ◼ ► Now today for this sister that the that said there are so glad you didn't know this Casey has been yelling at me all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4200">TS</a>]
01:10:41 ◼ ► week about it I didn't realize you had never known it was only on you to know this Margo it seems like you didn't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4241">TS</a>]
01:10:46 ◼ ► I knew I would save in my rage. Good job saving it. All I know is I see this is not a joke. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4246">TS</a>]
01:10:55 ◼ ► When you told me originally which was around a week ago I seriously had a mental argument argument with myself debating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4255">TS</a>]
01:11:04 ◼ ► whether or not to go telling your wife that you got an invite and I think I told her everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4264">TS</a>]
01:11:10 ◼ ► and keeping secrets from I told her she knows we discussed it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4270">TS</a>]
01:11:15 ◼ ► I didn't tell I didn't tell your wife because I didn't think that was an appropriate course of action [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4275">TS</a>]
01:11:20 ◼ ► and I didn't want to get involved in your marital stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4280">TS</a>]
01:11:24 ◼ ► Well good call but it's silly to think that I wouldn't tell or what I told my wife and she thinks you're crazy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4284">TS</a>]
01:11:30 ◼ ► Yeah I know I get that I cannot I'm so angry right now right now that I'm all fired up and angry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4290">TS</a>]
01:11:37 ◼ ► Let's talk about what's going on with women in gaming. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4297">TS</a>]
01:11:40 ◼ ► Man what a disaster that is I read all these things all the time like I fall out of people who are involved in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4300">TS</a>]
01:11:48 ◼ ► gaming industry. A lot of people who are women related to the gaming industry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4308">TS</a>]
01:11:53 ◼ ► They post links to articles by followers links I read them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4313">TS</a>]
01:11:56 ◼ ► I read all the blog posts I read all I get when I read a lot of games out there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4316">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► All these stories on ministers are to go read a lot about so I feel like I'm just soaking in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:03 ◼ ► and you just assume that everyone else knows all the things that are happening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4323">TS</a>]
01:12:06 ◼ ► but they don't so that's why I think it's worth talking about because not everyone is as has read nine thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4326">TS</a>]
01:12:15 ◼ ► Yeah so there's little things are where this is there's no actual like the difficulty due to getting up to speed is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:22 ◼ ► like there's no actual like news there there's nothing nothing substantive for you to it's all like a metaphor it's all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4342">TS</a>]
01:12:32 ◼ ► The substantive parts like that you would think is like a controversy where there's like one side and another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4352">TS</a>]
01:12:38 ◼ ► and they're against each other but it's almost entirely one sided. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4358">TS</a>]
01:12:42 ◼ ► It's essentially a bunch of women in the industry who are fighting for more equality in the most like tame [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4362">TS</a>]
01:12:51 ◼ ► non-controversial way you could possibly imagine. The best example of this is and it is our T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4371">TS</a>]
01:12:57 ◼ ► and Sam is frequency videos yet a Kickstarter for it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4377">TS</a>]
01:13:00 ◼ ► Go watch these videos that she puts up it's a critique of the treatment of women in gaming it is the most calm like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4380">TS</a>]
01:13:08 ◼ ► gentle hand-holding like noncontroversial like it sometimes it's face almost boring like an eminently reasonable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4388">TS</a>]
01:13:18 ◼ ► example after example she is not yelling at you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4398">TS</a>]
01:13:21 ◼ ► She does not have an unreasonable demand she explains things slowly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4401">TS</a>]
01:13:26 ◼ ► and carefully in a way that people will understand with clear language right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4406">TS</a>]
01:13:30 ◼ ► This is one example of the type of thing that drives you nuts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4410">TS</a>]
01:13:33 ◼ ► and that's why there's not a controversy because it's like what is it that you are opposed to in these things so they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4413">TS</a>]
01:13:39 ◼ ► write this stuff like that it is article about herds are caused by related issues I mean just the general treatment of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4419">TS</a>]
01:13:45 ◼ ► and actual women who work in the gaming industry on the other side of this are people who are terrible doing terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4425">TS</a>]
01:13:51 ◼ ► things to other people harassing them posting their personal information sending them death threats [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4431">TS</a>]
01:13:57 ◼ ► and terrible picture this goes on all the time this is not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4437">TS</a>]
01:14:00 ◼ ► New this is just a flare up of something that happens all the time to women everywhere not just in the gaming industry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4440">TS</a>]
01:14:05 ◼ ► but in particular these women who are doing terrible thing in the gaming industry by merely talking about these issues. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4445">TS</a>]
01:14:12 ◼ ► And in recent weeks it's been getting worse because the terrible people are trying to organize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4452">TS</a>]
01:14:17 ◼ ► and trying to be even more super terrible and women are leaving the industry because they can't take the harassment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4457">TS</a>]
01:14:23 ◼ ► and I don't blame them for doing it. And that's like a victory. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4463">TS</a>]
01:14:25 ◼ ► And so it's not like you say well there's there's a debate here there's these people who did these bad thing these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4465">TS</a>]
01:14:31 ◼ ► people got angry. It's mostly just people doing bad things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4471">TS</a>]
01:14:35 ◼ ► and that's why it's been hesitant to discuss it because I'm like well there's no story it's not like we can talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4475">TS</a>]
01:14:40 ◼ ► and people are reacting to it you know we can talk about this completely tame totally rational calm normal everyday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4480">TS</a>]
01:14:46 ◼ ► thing that happens all the time that is not bad in any way. And then these terrible people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4486">TS</a>]
01:14:51 ◼ ► And so now this is just become a story about the terrible people of like it doesn't matter what anyone even if they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4491">TS</a>]
01:14:57 ◼ ► done something like I've written a really mean blog post that it like they haven't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4497">TS</a>]
01:15:01 ◼ ► It doesn't justify the crazy behavior that's going on. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4501">TS</a>]
01:15:03 ◼ ► And so I don't know what more they really say about us other than Whenever people ask you about on Twitter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4503">TS</a>]
01:15:10 ◼ ► My my position is that the people who are angry have no idea what they're angry about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4510">TS</a>]
01:15:17 ◼ ► They think they know what they're angry about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4517">TS</a>]
01:15:19 ◼ ► They think they're angry about ethics they think they're angry about people taking away their games I think they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4519">TS</a>]
01:15:24 ◼ ► angry about people lying. They have no idea what they're angry about is the biggest case of self delusion. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4524">TS</a>]
01:15:32 ◼ ► and they will never be convinced they don't know what they're angry about what they're doing is trying to in their mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4532">TS</a>]
01:15:37 ◼ ► they're going to like actually what I really care about is journalistic integrity in video games already really care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4537">TS</a>]
01:15:42 ◼ ► about is that someone is lying or is it like they make up all these crazy conspiracy theories [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4542">TS</a>]
01:15:47 ◼ ► and decide that they are really they that they have a righteous cause they do not have a righteous cause what they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4547">TS</a>]
01:15:52 ◼ ► actually angry about has nothing to do with the things they claim they are angry about which is so easy for an outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4552">TS</a>]
01:15:57 ◼ ► the bubble to see but inside the bubble. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4557">TS</a>]
01:16:01 ◼ ► and they're like oh well you know I have a million issues they could you could just just look at any of the replies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4561">TS</a>]
01:16:07 ◼ ► streams of any of these people in to see all the things they think their anger about these people are not angry about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4567">TS</a>]
01:16:12 ◼ ► that they're there and they don't know the definition of intellectual honesty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4572">TS</a>]
01:16:16 ◼ ► They're intellectually dishonest both with themselves and other people and it's it's just terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4576">TS</a>]
01:16:22 ◼ ► and by the way this is this is gaming is where we're talking about this everywhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4582">TS</a>]
01:16:26 ◼ ► We're going to treated badly everywhere to varying degrees. Like if you don't believe it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4586">TS</a>]
01:16:30 ◼ ► Talk to a woman in your life and ask them for stories and if they actually trust you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4590">TS</a>]
01:16:34 ◼ ► and they will tell you these stories and it will sound insane to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4594">TS</a>]
01:16:38 ◼ ► and my advice Deborah listen this thing I'm crazy person is the only. How do you what do you do about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4598">TS</a>]
01:16:45 ◼ ► Do you just like you know what can you possibly do about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4605">TS</a>]
01:16:49 ◼ ► and I think the the thing that you can do about it if you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4609">TS</a>]
01:16:53 ◼ ► and the odds are high a plain old American white male person listening to our techno podcast just try reading these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4613">TS</a>]
01:17:02 ◼ ► blog posts and watching these videos just like just to sort of like immersion therapy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4622">TS</a>]
01:17:07 ◼ ► or whatever it is me just have like just just immerse yourself in it not the one you agree with the other side the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4627">TS</a>]
01:17:14 ◼ ► people who are saying it would be nice if women were treated better in video games. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4634">TS</a>]
01:17:18 ◼ ► Just read those for like a year without saying anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4638">TS</a>]
01:17:21 ◼ ► That's the only way I feel like you can get through to people like what you know what actually what is the reality of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4641">TS</a>]
01:17:25 ◼ ► the situation on the other side there if you just read things that you agree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4645">TS</a>]
01:17:28 ◼ ► or try to find things that like reinforce your own prejudices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4648">TS</a>]
01:17:31 ◼ ► and make you feel better about the things that you feel these were all brought up we brought this up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4651">TS</a>]
01:17:35 ◼ ► and were all brought up in a culture that embeds in US biases I you know against all sorts of things race religion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4655">TS</a>]
01:17:48 ◼ ► We're all brought up in that environment we don't want to think of ourselves as bad people there's a cognitive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4668">TS</a>]
01:17:51 ◼ ► dissonance thing going on there the best thing you can do is just to immerse yourself in that sort of equality debate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4671">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► Way I think people get around this is no way me arguing with someone on Twitter is going to commence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:03 ◼ ► and they're not mad about journalistic ethics and they don't know what intellectualized is and they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4683">TS</a>]
01:18:07 ◼ ► and they have really have no legitimate complaints. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4687">TS</a>]
01:18:10 ◼ ► There's no way I think and it seems like it's so clear that they're so far gone there's no point arguing with them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4690">TS</a>]
01:18:15 ◼ ► and the only thing I think interview around including people like us who are just like sort of you know well I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4695">TS</a>]
01:18:19 ◼ ► really involved in this I'm not a terrible person I'm not sending death threats I think it should be more quality in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4699">TS</a>]
01:18:24 ◼ ► but I don't want to get involved because it's a fight to get out of that mindset I think you have to really understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4704">TS</a>]
01:18:31 ◼ ► and the way to really understand what's going on in a way that you better come through with is just to if you care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4711">TS</a>]
01:18:37 ◼ ► rather than just to immerse yourself in it and read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4717">TS</a>]
01:18:40 ◼ ► and read everything everybody has to say to me up take it on face value [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4720">TS</a>]
01:18:43 ◼ ► but just feel like you can get get a picture of it that's beyond a picture that just reinforces the things you make you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4723">TS</a>]
01:18:48 ◼ ► feel good about yourself. Reason things that actually make you feel bad about yourself. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4728">TS</a>]
01:18:53 ◼ ► So earlier today and I'm not sure if this is why it's bringing this up and I want to bring it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4733">TS</a>]
01:19:01 ◼ ► Earlier today I made a perhaps a dubious choice of saying somebody said we should talk about this tonight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4741">TS</a>]
01:19:12 ◼ ► and I said you know I'm not sure how to talk about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4752">TS</a>]
01:19:15 ◼ ► and I'm not sure what to do because I feel like well the people who are ostracizing women and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4755">TS</a>]
01:19:24 ◼ ► and threatening women unequivocally like John said unequivocally are wrong and that's a terrible thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4764">TS</a>]
01:19:30 ◼ ► And how these people look at themselves in the mirror. I don't understand how they sleep at night I don't understand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4770">TS</a>]
01:19:35 ◼ ► Terrible but I don't want to just shout into the echo chamber. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4775">TS</a>]
01:19:40 ◼ ► I want to try to do something to move things forward and whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4780">TS</a>]
01:19:45 ◼ ► or not I did a good job of patrolling nephew point on Twitter in one hundred forty characters minus like probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4785">TS</a>]
01:19:50 ◼ ► twenty or thirty characters worth of mentions. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4790">TS</a>]
01:19:54 ◼ ► I may not have done a good job but one way or another I said you know my. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4794">TS</a>]
01:20:00 ◼ ► The way in which I approach this I think is nuanced and and I don't think that the discussion is nuanced. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4800">TS</a>]
01:20:06 ◼ ► I think that it's unequivocally these these people are jerks and that's the end of it. Women should be treated better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4806">TS</a>]
01:20:12 ◼ ► But the way I approach it is a little nuanced and I got what I felt was a considerable amount of hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4812">TS</a>]
01:20:20 ◼ ► and a considerable amount of yelling directed at me on Twitter because I I I had said that I wanted to think for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4820">TS</a>]
01:20:31 ◼ ► And it really upset me a lot and it really bothered me and I felt a little bit like I think Marco felt I think a week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4831">TS</a>]
01:20:41 ◼ ► or two ago with regard to the wire cutter thing because here it was I felt like I was trying to just be intelligent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4841">TS</a>]
01:20:47 ◼ ► about it rather than screaming about it and I was getting yelled at for that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4847">TS</a>]
01:20:55 ◼ ► And the thing that was really upsetting about all this the thing that really bothered me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4855">TS</a>]
01:21:01 ◼ ► and continues to bother me about all this now that I've got a few hours to separate myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4861">TS</a>]
01:21:06 ◼ ► and relax is I dealt with three hours of a handful of people being meaner than I think was necessary. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4866">TS</a>]
01:21:17 ◼ ► And it kind of messed me up for for a while. That was three hours. Nobody threatened to rape me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4877">TS</a>]
01:21:25 ◼ ► Nobody threatened to murder me. Nobody sent me disgusting pornography. Nobody came to your house. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4885">TS</a>]
01:21:33 ◼ ► Nobody said they knew your address and your family that address and were going to go and kill them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4893">TS</a>]
01:21:37 ◼ ► and I showed you pictures of your family that they'd taken secretly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4897">TS</a>]
01:21:40 ◼ ► Yes and I felt like a piece of crap after this three hours which had none of those things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4900">TS</a>]
01:21:47 ◼ ► And it occurred to me if I feel like a piece of just utter crap after three hours of people saying oh you're not doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4907">TS</a>]
01:21:55 ◼ ► enough you shouldn't think about that nuanced Are you kidding me. And if three. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4915">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► Hours of that I felt like I wanted to crawl in a hole and just go away for a week and that was three hours. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:08 ◼ ► I cannot freaking fathom what it's like to be a woman in tech. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4928">TS</a>]
01:22:16 ◼ ► It won't really have all but in technology and especially in gaming where there's so many just absolute jerks. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4936">TS</a>]
01:22:26 ◼ ► And as much as I didn't want to go through what I went through today which I'm not trying to play the victim really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4946">TS</a>]
01:22:31 ◼ ► immigrants Hema things was not a big deal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4951">TS</a>]
01:22:34 ◼ ► But as much as it hurt him as much as I didn't want to go through it today I'm kind of glad that that happened because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4954">TS</a>]
01:22:40 ◼ ► it made what women go through that littlest bit more real because I just got the teeniest little taste and I hated it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4960">TS</a>]
01:22:51 ◼ ► I cannot fathom what it's like to actually deal with this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4971">TS</a>]
01:22:55 ◼ ► That's probably one of the only other ways that you could convince somebody you know you don't have this kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4975">TS</a>]
01:22:59 ◼ ► control but if you did if you could you know do that for you for out a body swap another movie has been seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4979">TS</a>]
01:23:05 ◼ ► and I have seen it. But a bunch of the original K.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4985">TS</a>]
01:23:11 ◼ ► I don't see a big gentle writer let a bunch of men see what it's like to actually be a woman. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4991">TS</a>]
01:23:16 ◼ ► Because like so many things are just in our culture that like we don't see them as bad because it's like well it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/4996">TS</a>]
01:23:24 ◼ ► the way things are and there's always something like that in every era. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5004">TS</a>]
01:23:27 ◼ ► This stuff like that now one hundred years from now people can look back on us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5007">TS</a>]
01:23:30 ◼ ► and we were things that we accept as just the way things are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5010">TS</a>]
01:23:32 ◼ ► Like one where you can see them as if you suddenly begin a woman and spent like a few years as a woman [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5012">TS</a>]
01:23:38 ◼ ► and you had spent the rest your life of the man you would be super pissed about how terrible you were treated you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5018">TS</a>]
01:23:43 ◼ ► be the most angry noxious you know you would just be livid that people don't respect you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5023">TS</a>]
01:23:51 ◼ ► and treat you like a piece of meat looked down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5031">TS</a>]
01:23:54 ◼ ► and you talk to condescendingly like just are you know I'm all the terrible things that happen to women all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5034">TS</a>]
01:24:00 ◼ ► Even are just like you know overly protective of you or assume that you can or can't do certain things or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5040">TS</a>]
01:24:06 ◼ ► It's it's difficult to understand what that's like if you have an experience that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5046">TS</a>]
01:24:09 ◼ ► and you know Casey you have the experience you had of like people being mean to you and stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5049">TS</a>]
01:24:16 ◼ ► Imagine if that happens all the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5056">TS</a>]
01:24:17 ◼ ► and then you were looking at you feel like an injustice like you'd be like Hey everybody knows this happening to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5057">TS</a>]
01:24:24 ◼ ► What are you guys going to do about it is not just me it's like everybody whose name is Katie's getting these kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5064">TS</a>]
01:24:28 ◼ ► views and it's not fair to people just because my name is Casey It is kind of abuse and mean the rest the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5068">TS</a>]
01:24:33 ◼ ► You like what the hell guys know arounds like I don't get involved. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5073">TS</a>]
01:24:37 ◼ ► or like they don't get comments like this person that Sharon said John is an expert at them as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5077">TS</a>]
01:24:40 ◼ ► and he shouldn't talk about it and ended up in a chat room says calling them out. I won't change anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5080">TS</a>]
01:24:47 ◼ ► I'm not an expert in feminism that's not a reason I shouldn't talk about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5087">TS</a>]
01:24:50 ◼ ► but I'm calling him out on it like this like negative like now because I got involved now I'm going to deal with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5090">TS</a>]
01:24:55 ◼ ► feedback right well yeah I do. Calling him out I won't change anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5095">TS</a>]
01:24:58 ◼ ► That's why I say I like arguing with people trying to convince them that they're wrong is not a fruitful endeavor the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5098">TS</a>]
01:25:03 ◼ ► people who need to be changed are the people who are good people who just feel like they need to stay out of it because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5103">TS</a>]
01:25:08 ◼ ► they're afraid of getting a kind of feedback we're getting the chat room they're fraid of getting out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5108">TS</a>]
01:25:12 ◼ ► If you back Casey got you know that's like you have to you have to decide what you think is important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5112">TS</a>]
01:25:20 ◼ ► and if this is actually something is important to you you have to be willing to to do something about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5120">TS</a>]
01:25:25 ◼ ► And it's people like us who all agree like oh I totally agree with all these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5125">TS</a>]
01:25:32 ◼ ► and just I don't want to get involved. Well then you're not really helping. So just I mean do something to help. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5132">TS</a>]
01:25:37 ◼ ► Like you shouldn't be afraid that you're going to do something that is going to turn you into a bad person. Right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5137">TS</a>]
01:25:44 ◼ ► You may do things that cause people to give you negative attention and complain about what you're doing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5144">TS</a>]
01:25:49 ◼ ► You may find out there are beliefs that you have like this is part of my experience of being you know steeped in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5149">TS</a>]
01:25:56 ◼ ► stuff of the past several years. You may find yourself having to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5156">TS</a>]
01:26:00 ◼ ► Oh man believes that you hadn't even thought were like believes that all this is like was just the way things are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5160">TS</a>]
01:26:04 ◼ ► You will find your own biases they will not feel good for you to find these things you will realize that you had said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5164">TS</a>]
01:26:10 ◼ ► and done things in the past that did not live up to the standards that you supposedly hold for yourself that is part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5170">TS</a>]
01:26:15 ◼ ► the experience I think that is where the fruitful effort can be put towards not towards trying to save these terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5175">TS</a>]
01:26:23 ◼ ► people from whatever pain in their life is causing them to lash out in this way not by trying to convince them that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5183">TS</a>]
01:26:28 ◼ ► they're really not mad about journalistic ethics because I'll never be convinced because they think that you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5188">TS</a>]
01:26:31 ◼ ► like self-delusion but by talking to the people who are already on your side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5191">TS</a>]
01:26:36 ◼ ► and just getting them to to better understand the issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5196">TS</a>]
01:26:40 ◼ ► and to be more willing to do something about it I think everybody has to jump in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5200">TS</a>]
01:26:43 ◼ ► and not demanding that everyone take action or whatever but like I think of it if you were if everyone in K.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5203">TS</a>]
01:26:49 ◼ ► and the whole rest the country was like an alarmist old ego Well I just I want to get involved in that all the cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5209">TS</a>]
01:26:55 ◼ ► Like every day this happens you know and all the cases are getting harassed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5215">TS</a>]
01:26:58 ◼ ► and everyone is like this is OK Don't you feel like it's not you know it it's you know you know bring out the jailer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5218">TS</a>]
01:27:03 ◼ ► but it's just this is like Should this be happening all no it should be happening I tell you as agree with the buzz [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5223">TS</a>]
01:27:09 ◼ ► There there actually is like we need to make it as as socially unacceptable to have these attitudes towards what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5229">TS</a>]
01:27:16 ◼ ► already socially unacceptable to arrest people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5236">TS</a>]
01:27:18 ◼ ► but is not socially acceptable to have only gotten to towards women that that create these these terrible situations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5238">TS</a>]
01:27:24 ◼ ► where people have problems in their life and pain and that they redirect in this direction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5244">TS</a>]
01:27:29 ◼ ► and why does it go in this direction is not random. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5249">TS</a>]
01:27:31 ◼ ► It's because of the media culture that we're saturated in from the day we're born. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5251">TS</a>]
01:27:36 ◼ ► and it's not just video games as movies tell because there is equally bad not equally bad but it's bad everywhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5256">TS</a>]
01:27:42 ◼ ► It may be particularly bad in games. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5262">TS</a>]
01:27:44 ◼ ► Again if you think this is all crazy talk I heard you just watch the feminist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5264">TS</a>]
01:27:47 ◼ ► or you can see videos will link them they are not super entertaining. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5267">TS</a>]
01:27:51 ◼ ► You will not be blown away by what he jokes and everything like that right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5271">TS</a>]
01:27:55 ◼ ► Sometimes they're depressing sometimes it is plain boring. Just watch them. Don't like watch them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5275">TS</a>]
01:28:00 ◼ ► Think you have to agree or disagree don't watch them and think you have to go out and change the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5280">TS</a>]
01:28:03 ◼ ► or you have to send her angry mail. Just watch them at the start. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5283">TS</a>]
01:28:07 ◼ ► Read articles about them read things that you disagree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5287">TS</a>]
01:28:11 ◼ ► and just try to try to understand the issues with all the good people Terral people just go away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5291">TS</a>]
01:28:16 ◼ ► Stopping terrible I think it's important to you know like what you said like this has to become socially unacceptable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5296">TS</a>]
01:28:24 ◼ ► to to a much more severe level than on His right now like there there are certain lines that are considered so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5304">TS</a>]
01:28:32 ◼ ► and so socially unacceptable that like for instance like if somebody tells suppose you're in a small group of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5312">TS</a>]
01:28:40 ◼ ► and somebody tells a really racist joke like horrible racist joke it most groups of people now that is considered so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5320">TS</a>]
01:28:50 ◼ ► offensive that and we have a long way to go on racism as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5330">TS</a>]
01:28:55 ◼ ► But in most groups of people now that is considered so offensive that somebody would be like somebody would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5335">TS</a>]
01:29:00 ◼ ► something like Hey that's that's not cool like you know like you be called out on that for doing that in a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5340">TS</a>]
01:29:05 ◼ ► groups not enough but in a lot of groups and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5345">TS</a>]
01:29:08 ◼ ► and I think you'd be called out in a constructive manner at this point especially in the circles we travel in of our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5348">TS</a>]
01:29:13 ◼ ► little privileged techno right you'd be called out in a way that we do not immediately gastritis in the group you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5353">TS</a>]
01:29:18 ◼ ► be you be told that that's not cool and if you argued about it then you were doing something on the out right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5358">TS</a>]
01:29:23 ◼ ► but if you're like oh you're right that's not like we're trying we're trying to enforce off the norms in a way that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5363">TS</a>]
01:29:29 ◼ ► like you know to me till you get it from the group of you tolerate this joke [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5369">TS</a>]
01:29:32 ◼ ► but if you tell a racist joke something tells you it's racism you argue with them that that shows something right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5372">TS</a>]
01:29:37 ◼ ► or if you argue that it doesn't matter that it's like right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5377">TS</a>]
01:29:40 ◼ ► and so like we need to get to that point with sex as an issue and we're not there yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5380">TS</a>]
01:29:46 ◼ ► and again like even racism we haven't gotten to a good enough point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5386">TS</a>]
01:29:50 ◼ ► but we're I think we're further ahead on it you know we need it people like like like me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5390">TS</a>]
01:29:56 ◼ ► and like people like us who are wondering what can we do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5396">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► That's a big thing that everybody can do that everybody can start holding the people around them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:05 ◼ ► and themselves to a higher standard to say and like call people out if they if they say something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5405">TS</a>]
01:30:12 ◼ ► and you don't have to be a dick about it you can do it constructively if if you could tell that it really mean it badly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5412">TS</a>]
01:30:18 ◼ ► you know like there's again like as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5418">TS</a>]
01:30:20 ◼ ► and translate this stuff this is subtle it's big into our culture it's very hard to even to realize you won't notice it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5420">TS</a>]
01:30:27 ◼ ► unless unless you read eight thousand blog posts about stuff with crazy stuff that you don't agree with unless you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5427">TS</a>]
01:30:33 ◼ ► and you have to reexamine things that you just assume that are just OK it was just the way they are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5433">TS</a>]
01:30:38 ◼ ► Like everybody has these beliefs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5438">TS</a>]
01:30:40 ◼ ► Everybody there is no person anywhere in the world who does not have what are essentially regressive non-rational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5440">TS</a>]
01:30:46 ◼ ► beliefs because of the way they were brought up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5446">TS</a>]
01:30:47 ◼ ► and you will never examine them if you just like stay within the group of people that you're in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5447">TS</a>]
01:30:53 ◼ ► Right you have to you have to extend yourself you have to become uncomfortable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5453">TS</a>]
01:30:57 ◼ ► You know it's just it's so tough because you know the things that bothered me that happened with me today I think it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5457">TS</a>]
01:31:07 ◼ ► was people that were there that that were trying to defend feminism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5467">TS</a>]
01:31:13 ◼ ► and trying to say you know this isn't nuanced it's just plain wrong you know your opinions are nuance to either you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5473">TS</a>]
01:31:20 ◼ ► agree that it's wrong or you don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5480">TS</a>]
01:31:23 ◼ ► And what I left that conversation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5483">TS</a>]
01:31:27 ◼ ► or those conversations with even though it was conversations with people who I think by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5487">TS</a>]
01:31:32 ◼ ► and large I agree with that this is B.S. and That it is wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5492">TS</a>]
01:31:37 ◼ ► I left with this feeling like Oh my God I'm never going to talk about this again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5497">TS</a>]
01:31:45 ◼ ► and just a few minutes later some person on Twitter started saying that oh you know the tech industry is a meritocracy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5505">TS</a>]
01:31:54 ◼ ► and there's no sexism there blah blah blah. And for a minute I thought somebody said yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5514">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► I'm should look at my replies. Oh it was absolutely. That's right that's the thing. Again here it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:09 ◼ ► That's where things are not going to be Apple that only barely but you just can't it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5529">TS</a>]
01:32:14 ◼ ► But though that's the thing is that to me this is so absurd to Killis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5534">TS</a>]
01:32:19 ◼ ► and this person was arguing that oh you don't know what you're talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5539">TS</a>]
01:32:23 ◼ ► Oh and nursing is ninety two percent feminine or female or what have you so clearly that's sexist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5543">TS</a>]
01:32:29 ◼ ► and oh my god it was so ridiculous. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5549">TS</a>]
01:32:31 ◼ ► And for a minute there I thought you know what I'm just getting more this just completely backwards individual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5551">TS</a>]
01:32:36 ◼ ► and I'm just going to let this go away because I was just right off of being lectured about not wanting to shoot from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5556">TS</a>]
01:32:44 ◼ ► the hip and how wrong that was and then I thought you know what. Screw that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5564">TS</a>]
01:32:49 ◼ ► This person's being an idiot and I'm going to tell them they're being an idiot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5569">TS</a>]
01:32:52 ◼ ► and this kind of gets into the conversation of should you or should you not feed the trolls. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5572">TS</a>]
01:32:56 ◼ ► And if there's anything I've learned it's that I'm not good at drawing that line and I'm not good at deciding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5576">TS</a>]
01:33:01 ◼ ► when to feed the trolls and when not to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5581">TS</a>]
01:33:04 ◼ ► But it's felt more wrong to me to not do anything and not say anything then to take the easy way out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5584">TS</a>]
01:33:13 ◼ ► and just think in myself or this person is just completely backwards and there's nothing I can do about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5593">TS</a>]
01:33:18 ◼ ► There's a lot of like tropes if you want to call them that in this debate and like I said in the past [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5598">TS</a>]
01:33:25 ◼ ► when we talked about you know women in the tech industry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5605">TS</a>]
01:33:27 ◼ ► and everything I'm trying not to use all the vocabulary because people who don't know what this is don't know that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5607">TS</a>]
01:33:33 ◼ ► have people who do know a gambler find it to be charged [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5613">TS</a>]
01:33:36 ◼ ► but one of the things that you said in that thing which caused people to flare up I think is the sort of not feeding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5616">TS</a>]
01:33:40 ◼ ► the trolls thing that is a nugget of wisdom from you know from ages ages ago which is basically like if someone is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5620">TS</a>]
01:33:48 ◼ ► there someone is getting a bad behavior online don't engage with them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5628">TS</a>]
01:33:53 ◼ ► and they'll go away because all they wanted attention and that is an anti pattern when it comes to women in tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5633">TS</a>]
01:34:00 ◼ ► Because that's what everyone uses say like these people come in there or start arresting things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5640">TS</a>]
01:34:04 ◼ ► and everyone else would say nothing because they weren't being the ones harassed and they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5644">TS</a>]
01:34:08 ◼ ► and they would defend this action. This in action by saying Oh don't feed the trolls like don't engage with them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5648">TS</a>]
01:34:13 ◼ ► Not engaging it's fine when you're not the target of harassment you have the luxury of not engaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5653">TS</a>]
01:34:18 ◼ ► and saying oh don't feed the trolls not feeding them does not stop them from doing the terrible thing they're doing to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5658">TS</a>]
01:34:22 ◼ ► their targets right and that's why Don't be the trolls in such a sort of you know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5662">TS</a>]
01:34:27 ◼ ► when people hear that they who are steeped in this debate they're like you know it's fallen victim for one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5667">TS</a>]
01:34:35 ◼ ► They just know this is one of those things like oh don't you know like I mean everyone thinks like oh you should know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5675">TS</a>]
01:34:40 ◼ ► everything about this debate already don't you know they don't feed the trolls is exactly the wrong thing to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5680">TS</a>]
01:34:44 ◼ ► but anyone who's new to this debate is going to come in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5684">TS</a>]
01:34:47 ◼ ► and make all the same mistakes all the sort of beginner mistakes that everybody does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5687">TS</a>]
01:34:50 ◼ ► and then you can get jumped on by people like oh my God don't you know don't be the trolls the worst thing ever you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5690">TS</a>]
01:34:54 ◼ ► really have to stand up for these people because they they feed on your silence and you know that allows them like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5694">TS</a>]
01:35:00 ◼ ► and you know you don't know because like you're not steeped in this debate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5700">TS</a>]
01:35:02 ◼ ► and so like you are coming in that's going to happen right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5702">TS</a>]
01:35:05 ◼ ► That's not you know even within the debate there's like there's arguments over tactics like how should we achieve our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5705">TS</a>]
01:35:11 ◼ ► radical goals of not being beat on constantly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5711">TS</a>]
01:35:13 ◼ ► Yeah sure we achieve them in this way by the angry people yelling should each of them in that way by engaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5713">TS</a>]
01:35:18 ◼ ► and trying to work with people or is that too much compromise and like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5718">TS</a>]
01:35:21 ◼ ► and you know Mark about of racism before like this it's not just an individual thing there's institutional levels of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5721">TS</a>]
01:35:26 ◼ ► It's all down the chain of like well even if at a personal level Iran feels the certain way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5726">TS</a>]
01:35:31 ◼ ► and espouse a certain believes it as an institution as a group we behave in a different way than that perpetuates all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5731">TS</a>]
01:35:37 ◼ ► the other things of the media we create is only created by people who unconsciously put their biases into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5737">TS</a>]
01:35:42 ◼ ► and that these are children to look like this is a big you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5742">TS</a>]
01:35:46 ◼ ► But look how long we've been fighting at racism and you know making progress but it's very slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5746">TS</a>]
01:35:52 ◼ ► and sexism is you know is probably even going to be harder to knock down because you know in some ways you might say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5752">TS</a>]
01:35:59 ◼ ► it's better than race. As I'm in the US anyway. But in other ways it's worse. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5759">TS</a>]
01:36:03 ◼ ► They're both really bad in the world not going to bow his way some of the jammers asking what we can do about it in an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5763">TS</a>]
01:36:11 ◼ ► My suggestion is at an individual level it is a combination of Amargosa before which is basically if someone does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5771">TS</a>]
01:36:18 ◼ ► something that you think that you know is bad based on your current worldview of the you know if you see someone doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5778">TS</a>]
01:36:24 ◼ ► something that sexist that's unkind to women aren't kind to anybody. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5784">TS</a>]
01:36:29 ◼ ► Don't be like oh don't feed the trolls like you know it if it if you know it's wrong do something about it even if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5789">TS</a>]
01:36:37 ◼ ► Even though you know there are going to be consequences for you that's just like that's something you can do because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5797">TS</a>]
01:36:42 ◼ ► not doing anything is not an option not doing anything leads to the current situation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5802">TS</a>]
01:36:46 ◼ ► You know like whatever you know all takes for evil to triumph is are good men to do nothing right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5806">TS</a>]
01:36:51 ◼ ► All takes people trying to is for a completely neutral non interested people to do nothing just like Don't don't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5811">TS</a>]
01:36:57 ◼ ► nothing right and the second thing you should do is try to learn about the things that will reveal your own biases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5817">TS</a>]
01:37:04 ◼ ► and so you can rig them like all the good people who already agree with everything already agree that these people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5824">TS</a>]
01:37:09 ◼ ► Those are the people who need to see not only the we know you're not terrible like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5829">TS</a>]
01:37:13 ◼ ► but there are things that you are not seeing as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5833">TS</a>]
01:37:16 ◼ ► and that once you see them it's kind of like you know seeing the majors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5836">TS</a>]
01:37:20 ◼ ► or once you see them you're like how did I ever not see this before. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5840">TS</a>]
01:37:22 ◼ ► Many things can make you see them could be reading blog posts it could be other discuss Natasha having a daughter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5842">TS</a>]
01:37:27 ◼ ► and facing the world through her eyes it could be just getting married or are dating someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5847">TS</a>]
01:37:31 ◼ ► and asking the significant other was a woman in your life what it was like for them if you don't know what that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5851">TS</a>]
01:37:36 ◼ ► I mean all these things can change your worldview [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5856">TS</a>]
01:37:38 ◼ ► and once your worldview is change you can't see things you thought were like normal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5858">TS</a>]
01:37:42 ◼ ► and OK as being OK you will watch T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5862">TS</a>]
01:37:45 ◼ ► and realize how insanely sexist they are just like we watch like Mad Men now like the sixty's was a success right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5865">TS</a>]
01:37:50 ◼ ► Everything we see on our current television in movies and entertainment is exactly like that now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5870">TS</a>]
01:37:56 ◼ ► and you can you can fast forward your brain so that our. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5876">TS</a>]
01:38:00 ◼ ► Current world looks like madmen to you and it's not an illusion that is the reality it's behind everything else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5880">TS</a>]
01:38:04 ◼ ► and once you can see that it will change how you act change how you raise your children change how you run your company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5884">TS</a>]
01:38:09 ◼ ► change how you do everything that's been individuals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5889">TS</a>]
01:38:10 ◼ ► and the individuals who already are good people can do things to affect change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5890">TS</a>]
01:38:16 ◼ ► and that that's what I would suggest for individuals. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5896">TS</a>]
01:38:18 ◼ ► What you can do obviously there's much more you can do the people we're talking about are doing way more. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5898">TS</a>]
01:38:22 ◼ ► They're putting their you know their careers their lives their sanity on the line by trying to make changes that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5902">TS</a>]
01:38:29 ◼ ► much larger than one Persian person we've got you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5909">TS</a>]
01:38:32 ◼ ► and you start using doing that Brianna we're doing all these people who could just be quietly doing a job somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5912">TS</a>]
01:38:37 ◼ ► have chosen not to have chosen to speak out and be very loud and expose themselves to harassment and criticism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5917">TS</a>]
01:38:45 ◼ ► and abuse because they think the change is important if you do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5925">TS</a>]
01:38:49 ◼ ► Those people are heroes not everyone can be a hero but everybody can make themselves better everyone can lend a hand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5929">TS</a>]
01:38:54 ◼ ► And don't don't be so be open to the idea that you might be part of the problem because in some subtle way you probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5934">TS</a>]
01:39:05 ◼ ► and you know there's there's no shame in realizing you've been wrong about something in the past [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5945">TS</a>]
01:39:12 ◼ ► and fixing it like this like it's very hard for people to do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5952">TS</a>]
01:39:16 ◼ ► But that's so much better than continuing to to be a part of the problem and just you know plug your ears and yell or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5956">TS</a>]
01:39:25 ◼ ► or deny that you're part of the problem or become even more part of the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5965">TS</a>]
01:39:30 ◼ ► And and for any if any of our listeners are being part of this problem for God sakes cut that out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5970">TS</a>]
01:39:37 ◼ ► I think I'm pretty proud of my Twitter followers for the most part because a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5977">TS</a>]
01:39:41 ◼ ► when they tweet about anything like this get like tons of crazy people yelling at them and for the most part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5981">TS</a>]
01:39:46 ◼ ► when I tweet about there's a retreat about this most of the people who follow me I think are either not interested at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5986">TS</a>]
01:39:53 ◼ ► all and say nothing or are good people say supportive things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5993">TS</a>]
01:39:57 ◼ ► But I know that is not true of other people others will say. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/5997">TS</a>]
01:40:00 ◼ ► Actually retreated something for fairness very quickly and got a million crazy people yelling at me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6000">TS</a>]
01:40:04 ◼ ► And so I did what I said I get all my followers for not being like a pimp. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6004">TS</a>]
01:40:08 ◼ ► Well that's nothing like something that struck me especially today having seen some of the tree Owens in this purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6008">TS</a>]
01:40:15 ◼ ► individual who was trying to explain to me that that technology the technology industries a meritocracy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6015">TS</a>]
01:40:23 ◼ ► I travel with both in my online circles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6023">TS</a>]
01:40:26 ◼ ► and in meatspace I travel with people that are of least enough attack intelligence to realize that diversity is a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6026">TS</a>]
01:40:40 ◼ ► and it just blows my mind that so much of both America in the world at large seems to think that the only the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6040">TS</a>]
01:40:49 ◼ ► people that can do anything intelligent are white men. But how how does that make any frickin sense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6049">TS</a>]
01:40:56 ◼ ► It just it's stupid fives me what these people genuinely believe and I'm not going to get into politics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6056">TS</a>]
01:41:03 ◼ ► but there's a political side to this as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6063">TS</a>]
01:41:05 ◼ ► I just I don't understand how people can think that like it is so eminently obvious to me that diversity is is the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6065">TS</a>]
01:41:13 ◼ ► it should be being diverse is the way it should be. It's the it's the best possible way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6073">TS</a>]
01:41:19 ◼ ► Like if I just lived in a world where everyone agreed with me I would be furious. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6079">TS</a>]
01:41:24 ◼ ► I love my wife to death and sometimes she drives me crazy because we don't see eye to eye. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6084">TS</a>]
01:41:31 ◼ ► And that's part of the reason why I love her so much is because we don't see eye to eye all the time just having like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6091">TS</a>]
01:41:42 ◼ ► That just sounds so mind numbingly terrible to me it's like I'm so glad John that you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6102">TS</a>]
01:41:48 ◼ ► and I think I do too generally have the followers that realize that diversity is good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6108">TS</a>]
01:41:53 ◼ ► but what all of us myself very much included don't realize is there are so. Many people out there that are backwards. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6113">TS</a>]
01:42:02 ◼ ► Do you live in fifty one hundred two hundred years ago and think that women are evil and black people are stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6122">TS</a>]
01:42:09 ◼ ► and it's just how can you think that how is that a reasonable course of action. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6129">TS</a>]
01:42:13 ◼ ► Twenty fourteen for the gaming industry in particular. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6133">TS</a>]
01:42:17 ◼ ► It's like again I don't think this is the approach that I think you should try to convince people like the terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6137">TS</a>]
01:42:23 ◼ ► people that are terrible but like it's easier to convince the people who are sort of neutral [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6143">TS</a>]
01:42:27 ◼ ► or like don't want to get involved or think they're just fine because they're not terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6147">TS</a>]
01:42:32 ◼ ► If you just like to look at it from a business perspective like there's enough evidence people done this for the movies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6152">TS</a>]
01:42:37 ◼ ► to the show like there is a you know we just went to a demo over them a graphics couple shows ago the like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6157">TS</a>]
01:42:43 ◼ ► forty eight percent of gamers are women there's more adult women who play games and then males under eighteen right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6163">TS</a>]
01:42:50 ◼ ► Like just economic business point of view like to replace women [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6170">TS</a>]
01:42:54 ◼ ► and men with some other demographic that is less politically charged for your perspective this is an undershirt market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6174">TS</a>]
01:43:00 ◼ ► these people are buying things they're buying games that were not made with them in mind at all their bank games there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6180">TS</a>]
01:43:05 ◼ ► are terrible to them that objectify women that don't have their interest in mind like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6185">TS</a>]
01:43:09 ◼ ► and it's not just women it's like there are huge under-served markets in the gaming world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6189">TS</a>]
01:43:14 ◼ ► and how are you going to make products to serve these markets you can just take the existing teams of people who know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6194">TS</a>]
01:43:19 ◼ ► how to make games for straight male hammers you can't you'll never serve those markets of these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6199">TS</a>]
01:43:24 ◼ ► or at least it'll be a hell of a lot harder. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6204">TS</a>]
01:43:27 ◼ ► Hire some people with different points of view who want to make different kinds of games they will you know it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6207">TS</a>]
01:43:32 ◼ ► movies in the movie in the theaters recently with female leads have been doing better than those with male lead singers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6212">TS</a>]
01:43:38 ◼ ► like action movies like that and yet still like movies are more progressive than games in this regard. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6218">TS</a>]
01:43:43 ◼ ► I just look at like the isometric podcast again and five guys with a bunch of women that came out of nowhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6223">TS</a>]
01:43:51 ◼ ► Why because an underserved market gaming podcast mostly hosted by women there's not enough of those is not enough good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6231">TS</a>]
01:43:56 ◼ ► ones of those of us are going to get those of I meant those are going to find you one of this new find. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6236">TS</a>]
01:44:00 ◼ ► There's an underserved market for thing like there are people out there who are not having games made for them by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6240">TS</a>]
01:44:06 ◼ ► people who understand what they might like ignore everything else is just a stupid business that said I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6246">TS</a>]
01:44:11 ◼ ► and same thing with Hollywood making the same stupid movies all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6251">TS</a>]
01:44:14 ◼ ► You know figure it out people like you can make more money and I send sell more games and more products. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6254">TS</a>]
01:44:21 ◼ ► I mean Apple to its credit does a little bit better for eating out like Apple does not make things just for straight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6261">TS</a>]
01:44:26 ◼ ► white males they try to make things that appeal to lots of people right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6266">TS</a>]
01:44:29 ◼ ► Every possible thing do you like do you like high technology. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6269">TS</a>]
01:44:33 ◼ ► Do you like I mean they're going to go into the fashion world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6273">TS</a>]
01:44:35 ◼ ► They have to make things that are interesting to people who care about a diversity of issues did they just feature men [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6275">TS</a>]
01:44:42 ◼ ► in their commercials that they just feature old people do they just teach your children to they just know they show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6282">TS</a>]
01:44:46 ◼ ► everybody to try to make products for everybody. You make more money that way people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6286">TS</a>]
01:44:50 ◼ ► So that's that's my gaming industry talk if you are making games if you are selling games if you are thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6290">TS</a>]
01:44:55 ◼ ► games you're going to sell it or making a gaming product. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6295">TS</a>]
01:44:58 ◼ ► Half of your buyers are women don't have your product made entirely by men for men because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6298">TS</a>]
01:45:03 ◼ ► and you say all my facts are made entirely by members are not entirely for men is almost impossible to have a product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6303">TS</a>]
01:45:08 ◼ ► made entirely by men and not have that product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6308">TS</a>]
01:45:11 ◼ ► and it being a little bit more for men than otherwise because again everyone's got our own country's biases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6311">TS</a>]
01:45:16 ◼ ► and we're really familiar with what we like not so familiar with what different people like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6316">TS</a>]
01:45:20 ◼ ► and replace gender with any other axes along which people can vary economic background age race everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6320">TS</a>]
01:45:27 ◼ ► That's like you said diversity people think it's a dirty word it's like it's just good business sense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6327">TS</a>]
01:45:32 ◼ ► It just doesn't make sense. You're leaving money on the table. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6332">TS</a>]
01:45:36 ◼ ► And also just makes you a better person you know like it broadens your worldview to to bring more diversity into your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6336">TS</a>]
01:45:43 ◼ ► life into your work and it makes you a better person to not be aggravating these tensions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6343">TS</a>]
01:45:49 ◼ ► and not be attacking people over trivial matters. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6349">TS</a>]
01:45:53 ◼ ► And that you know some people are just miserable and are going to do this regardless [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6353">TS</a>]
01:45:58 ◼ ► and I don't know how to solve that problem. I don't think anybody really doesn't solve their problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6358">TS</a>]
01:46:02 ◼ ► It's a terrible problem but I don't know how to solve it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6362">TS</a>]
01:46:05 ◼ ► But even even if you're the kind of miserable person who likes being very argumentative you can win more arguments if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6365">TS</a>]
01:46:12 ◼ ► you take the high road and don't leave people these areas to attack what you're saying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6372">TS</a>]
01:46:17 ◼ ► Like if you're some kind of awful sexist person making awful sexist comments every time you try to win an argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6377">TS</a>]
01:46:24 ◼ ► or anything else you're going to lose because of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6384">TS</a>]
01:46:27 ◼ ► There's just so many reasons why it even if you can't be motivated by being a better person which is unfortunate. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6387">TS</a>]
01:46:35 ◼ ► There are so many other reasons why you should. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6395">TS</a>]
01:46:38 ◼ ► But ultimately I think the best thing we can really do is you know what we said earlier just you know encourage the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6398">TS</a>]
01:46:44 ◼ ► people who actively are trying or actively are intending to make things better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6404">TS</a>]
01:46:50 ◼ ► and actively would would like to help to actually help get you know give them give them the tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6410">TS</a>]
01:46:57 ◼ ► and the social permission to actually help. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6417">TS</a>]
01:47:01 ◼ ► It's important to realize like you know I like I saw Brianna were talking I think earlier today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6421">TS</a>]
01:47:06 ◼ ► or yesterday about how like she's like Never she's never talked to a man who who thought he was part of the problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6426">TS</a>]
01:47:13 ◼ ► or something like that. Like all of us listening we we all probably think oh well we aren't part of the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6433">TS</a>]
01:47:21 ◼ ► It's all the other people the other guys to the part of the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6441">TS</a>]
01:47:25 ◼ ► But that's probably not true we probably are part of the problem in ways you don't realize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6445">TS</a>]
01:47:28 ◼ ► and so it's just so important to keep an open mind about that and to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6448">TS</a>]
01:47:32 ◼ ► and to to to add people to our social circles like Briana [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6452">TS</a>]
01:47:37 ◼ ► and like anyone who will who will help point these things out to us when we do things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6457">TS</a>]
01:47:43 ◼ ► or say things that are unintentionally harmful to somebody. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6463">TS</a>]
01:47:47 ◼ ► I would like to know that it's like having my fly open like I would like somebody to tell me you know because that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6467">TS</a>]
01:47:53 ◼ ► problem that I would I would like to fix rather than denying that it exists. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6473">TS</a>]
01:47:58 ◼ ► The invisible fire that you can see it goes on. Did you know you have a fly in by the way it's open. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6478">TS</a>]
01:48:02 ◼ ► Yeah that's I mean and by the way to archive forever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6482">TS</a>]
01:48:04 ◼ ► and forever if you're on the social network that's another thing you've done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6484">TS</a>]
01:48:09 ◼ ► and it takes a conscious effort that you know I've been trying to do so the best of years with mixed results [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6489">TS</a>]
01:48:14 ◼ ► but my God keep trying to follow people who you wouldn't normally follow. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6494">TS</a>]
01:48:18 ◼ ► Right and so you can see what they have to say read their blogs like go outside of your comfort zone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6498">TS</a>]
01:48:24 ◼ ► or you know they make a conscious effort to expose yourself to the viewpoint if there is some kind of standard bearer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6504">TS</a>]
01:48:31 ◼ ► for a particular movement that you agree with in principle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6511">TS</a>]
01:48:34 ◼ ► but don't really know what you can do about it just follow that person. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6514">TS</a>]
01:48:37 ◼ ► And again every movement has different people there's always there's your Malcolm X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6517">TS</a>]
01:48:41 ◼ ► Martin Luther King Jr like this there's the whole spectrum of people maybe don't like one person's approach. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6521">TS</a>]
01:48:46 ◼ ► Maybe like in the present approach there are many rows see a video or a blog or read it with a feed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6526">TS</a>]
01:48:51 ◼ ► But just open yourself up to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6531">TS</a>]
01:48:53 ◼ ► and you don't to do anything about it like in the beginning just let yourself see what they have to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6533">TS</a>]
01:48:58 ◼ ► and if you follow them maybe you'll find a need to reply military plan back to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6538">TS</a>]
01:49:02 ◼ ► or maybe that one time you say something that you need to get called up on maybe they'll be there to call call you out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6542">TS</a>]
01:49:06 ◼ ► on that if you happen to have a lot of followers like we do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6546">TS</a>]
01:49:10 ◼ ► Make it a point to amplify the voices of people who normally don't get heard or you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6550">TS</a>]
01:49:15 ◼ ► or who are you know if there is if you're an individual Casey in your house being harassed by the K.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6555">TS</a>]
01:49:19 ◼ ► Aiders you'd really like it if someone with a large audience would employ your message that hey by the way did you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6559">TS</a>]
01:49:25 ◼ ► someone keeps putting a flaming C.M.I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6565">TS</a>]
01:49:26 ◼ ► On every morning because the anti Casey people hate all cases and this has been going on for years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6566">TS</a>]
01:49:30 ◼ ► and it seems like you guys don't care. Just so you know I'm out here. I'm getting harassed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6570">TS</a>]
01:49:35 ◼ ► Amplify those signals to to your audience of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6575">TS</a>]
01:49:39 ◼ ► and if you find yourself saying I would do that I agree with them in principle but I don't want to be like that guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6579">TS</a>]
01:49:46 ◼ ► and have all the people who are following me be like angry M.B. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6586">TS</a>]
01:49:49 ◼ ► Like we just want to hear you talk about technology don't talk about that it's like well decide you care about this if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6589">TS</a>]
01:49:53 ◼ ► you not care about it do you think all your followers those are terrible anti Casey people or are they you know like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6593">TS</a>]
01:50:00 ◼ ► Do you really want people following you like what do you actually care about you can say Well I agree in principle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6600">TS</a>]
01:50:04 ◼ ► but I want to do anything that inconveniences me in any way like some point you have to some point you have to put your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6604">TS</a>]
01:50:11 ◼ ► and one of the best things I've done in regard to this is following Brianna who is space cat gal on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6611">TS</a>]
01:50:21 ◼ ► and seeing things through her eyes to the best as one can through Twitter is so fascinating and so enlightening. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6621">TS</a>]
01:50:31 ◼ ► And if you follow her and you get tired of all the things that she's saying about women in tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6631">TS</a>]
01:50:37 ◼ ► and whatnot because she senses a lot then you know what. Imagine what it's like to deal with that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6637">TS</a>]
01:50:43 ◼ ► Like you're getting one one hundredth of what she has to deal with and you can turn yours off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6643">TS</a>]
01:50:48 ◼ ► when ever you want to like women have to live with this every day. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6648">TS</a>]
01:50:52 ◼ ► Exactly and there are times I'm like holy crap or you know relax for a second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6652">TS</a>]
01:50:57 ◼ ► and like what you're talking about now don't relax this is terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6657">TS</a>]
01:51:00 ◼ ► but I was there like you know it's not like a the following specific person because if Brianna's approach to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6660">TS</a>]
01:51:05 ◼ ► problem is off putting to you that's fine you can still not agree with her approaches solving this problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6665">TS</a>]
01:51:09 ◼ ► Find someone else to read to fall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6669">TS</a>]
01:51:11 ◼ ► or whatever like there's lot like just because you don't agree with someone's tactics they're not I mean like I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6671">TS</a>]
01:51:17 ◼ ► feel like you need to expose yourself to some tactics that you find are off putting. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6677">TS</a>]
01:51:21 ◼ ► but you should expose yourself to the viewpoint there are plenty of viewpoint out there there is a viewpoint that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6681">TS</a>]
01:51:26 ◼ ► feel comfortable with they can expose you to things you haven't thought of they can they can show you the experiences [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6686">TS</a>]
01:51:30 ◼ ► of other people and you know it's going to make you a little bit uncomfortable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6690">TS</a>]
01:51:34 ◼ ► but they're like you know like don't make your Twitter stream filled up like if I'm the angriest person you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6694">TS</a>]
01:51:40 ◼ ► and by the way as I said before I feel like if I was for switch genders right now I would be the angriest feminist the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6700">TS</a>]
01:51:46 ◼ ► and so would most men because we would just be incensed at the injustice of being treated the way women are treated all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6706">TS</a>]
01:51:51 ◼ ► the time because we know what it's like on the other side you know or changing to be black in the US [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6711">TS</a>]
01:51:56 ◼ ► or any other type of thing or changing to be super short or like any. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6716">TS</a>]
01:52:00 ◼ ► Any other thing that like is bad not you Mark you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6720">TS</a>]
01:52:03 ◼ ► Yeah like you know all of us would it would be just totally enraged to have to deal with any sort of prejudice that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6723">TS</a>]
01:52:12 ◼ ► don't that we didn't grow up with right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6732">TS</a>]
01:52:15 ◼ ► And so what you just try to do is be aware of those things somehow by exposing yourself to different viewpoints. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6735">TS</a>]
01:52:22 ◼ ► We can put a list of people in the show not everyone isometric would be great if all of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6742">TS</a>]
01:52:26 ◼ ► but even just like right like what your last name I was mispronounced it. I'll put on the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6746">TS</a>]
01:52:32 ◼ ► Susan aren't a veteran I'm asking you guys you don't know you're the Prince for a show that female journalists in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6752">TS</a>]
01:52:38 ◼ ► game industry if they have been there for a while they have a valuable viewpoint. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6758">TS</a>]
01:52:43 ◼ ► They probably have something interesting to say on this topic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6763">TS</a>]
01:52:45 ◼ ► and increasingly like you can find the great terrible people making this big like a list of people who you should hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6765">TS</a>]
01:52:51 ◼ ► because they support equality and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6771">TS</a>]
01:52:54 ◼ ► and list of websites you should visit go find that list you know from from these terrible websites [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6774">TS</a>]
01:52:59 ◼ ► and like for all those people are you for they have to say like use it for the opposite purpose. Yeah so it's a R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6779">TS</a>]
01:53:06 ◼ ► and B. C I guess it's just all right. Anyway she's great I enjoy her. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6786">TS</a>]
01:53:13 ◼ ► Sam a cyclone on Twitter Mattie Myers from isometric as well as another person to follow. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6793">TS</a>]
01:53:21 ◼ ► Point is there are there are things out there for you to follow and to read something will suit your needs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6801">TS</a>]
01:53:26 ◼ ► The worst thing you can do is nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6806">TS</a>]
01:53:30 ◼ ► And also I highly recommend wearing button fly pants because then your final never be open accidentally among other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6810">TS</a>]
01:53:35 ◼ ► benefits. They really are better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6815">TS</a>]
01:53:40 ◼ ► Let's work now so you get past it like it's you know if you have to convert all your pants at once You can't have like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6820">TS</a>]
01:53:47 ◼ ► one button fly pegs and you'll hate them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6827">TS</a>]
01:53:49 ◼ ► but once you have once you've converted to button fly you realize how superior they really are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6829">TS</a>]
01:53:55 ◼ ► and they loosen up after like the first couple of days. That's the thing on. Broken in button fly pants are the worst. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6835">TS</a>]
01:54:03 ◼ ► But that's like literally it's a couple of days and then then they're fine and they're nice you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6843">TS</a>]
01:54:07 ◼ ► and then this is the worst the most inappropriate segue of going from you really are better. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6847">TS</a>]
01:54:14 ◼ ► But basis ystem a sexism to flies on pants you know both both genders can wear button fly pants and often do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6854">TS</a>]
01:54:23 ◼ ► This is this is not a gender issue. I mean there is a benefit to men. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6863">TS</a>]
01:54:26 ◼ ► There's a there's an extra safety involved there but most of the benefits apply to both genders. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6866">TS</a>]
01:54:35 ◼ ► and that I mean we're not going to stop it now we're never going to be done with this topic this topic is not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6875">TS</a>]
01:54:40 ◼ ► go away in our lifetimes and I think we should keep talking about it regularly it will come up again on the show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6880">TS</a>]
01:54:46 ◼ ► I'm sure it's sad that it only comes up when like things get super bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6886">TS</a>]
01:54:51 ◼ ► but you know that's just the nature of just the nature of a topical show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6891">TS</a>]
01:54:57 ◼ ► Yeah it's homework for everybody who listens you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6897">TS</a>]
01:55:00 ◼ ► Seriously dude do something nice for for a woman in your life and you'll be better for it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6900">TS</a>]
01:55:06 ◼ ► And keep an open mind about pants as well except for the people who are saying a velcro fly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6906">TS</a>]
01:55:12 ◼ ► What you've got to be kidding at the worst of everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6912">TS</a>]
01:55:14 ◼ ► Skip that I think were time I got more fired up about that than I expected. Makes you so angry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6914">TS</a>]
01:55:21 ◼ ► No I think this is I think I think we were not going to regret having talked about this for this long. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6921">TS</a>]
01:55:27 ◼ ► If you guys like to buy on a quick I still have never listened to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6927">TS</a>]
01:55:31 ◼ ► but it sounds like the type of show like you like panicked you try symmetric because you're like well I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6931">TS</a>]
01:55:37 ◼ ► interested in games. Paraplegic out of games. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6937">TS</a>]
01:55:41 ◼ ► She says Try it for a couple episodes and Euro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6941">TS</a>]
01:55:44 ◼ ► but I guess they were just like yeah I actually I did I did listen to a few but they were pretty gaming heavy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6944">TS</a>]
01:55:51 ◼ ► Yeah I guess I mean I guess it is like I guess. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6951">TS</a>]
01:55:54 ◼ ► I mean it depends if they're spending a long time talking about hand turkeys then that's my gaming related [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6954">TS</a>]
01:55:58 ◼ ► but I guess they do spend some time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6958">TS</a>]
01:56:00 ◼ ► When I when I find the show musing in the same way as how it seems like you guys found by our commuting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6960">TS</a>]
01:56:04 ◼ ► and it's like one of the show really about it's a lot of nonsense a lot of fun. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6964">TS</a>]
01:56:07 ◼ ► But anyway it's it's a viewpoint that you don't hear. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6967">TS</a>]
01:56:12 ◼ ► I'd like I don't know the couple getting PA guess I'd listen to but none really regularly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6972">TS</a>]
01:56:16 ◼ ► and I find myself listening to this one because it's like if you point I don't get elsewhere I'll give it another shot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6976">TS</a>]
01:56:21 ◼ ► because I want to hear that cast talk like I follow most of them on Twitter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6981">TS</a>]
01:56:27 ◼ ► Like I want to hear them talk but I just I'm so not in. I'm so not a gamer. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6987">TS</a>]
01:56:33 ◼ ► I feel I feel the same way there's a lot of references and vocabulary and you know like talk. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6993">TS</a>]
01:56:39 ◼ ► They just assume everyone knows that these things are in a couple of discussion about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/6999">TS</a>]
01:56:43 ◼ ► and it's like I don't have the context even though it is the you're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7003">TS</a>]
01:56:45 ◼ ► but you see I mean I don't know maybe Casey will know if he's a lapsed game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7005">TS</a>]
01:56:48 ◼ ► or whatever I think he's probably equally lapsed or similarly lapsed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7008">TS</a>]
01:56:53 ◼ ► Yeah I was actually about to say you're the bigger X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7013">TS</a>]
01:56:56 ◼ ► Gamer than I I think so you and I can fight over who who used to be a bigger concern is that it is a worse game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7016">TS</a>]
01:57:04 ◼ ► and I think it's good actually to listen to the show because if you only follow like like Brown are Matty on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7024">TS</a>]
01:57:10 ◼ ► and you're going to see them as like the person who is you know fighting for equality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7030">TS</a>]
01:57:15 ◼ ► and being the victim of harassment I really like that you might start to forget that there are actual people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7035">TS</a>]
01:57:20 ◼ ► It wasn't as though the actual metric you will realize there are actual normal people who just like they don't spend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7040">TS</a>]
01:57:25 ◼ ► their entire time just being angry about feminism which is that crazy viewpoint people might get if they just like well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7045">TS</a>]
01:57:31 ◼ ► when they retreated by somebody a million times like these are people that there are actual people with who have actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7051">TS</a>]
01:57:38 ◼ ► interests and lives and jobs and families and feelings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7058">TS</a>]
01:57:41 ◼ ► and all the stuff that is a that is a side benefit of having to listen to a podcast of these type of people who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7061">TS</a>]
01:57:48 ◼ ► active on these issues to realize just because you're active on this issue. Leggo my other regular people to imagine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7068">TS</a>]
01:57:55 ◼ ► Yeah the reason I haven't listened to it yet it's because not not at all because of the whole. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7075">TS</a>]
01:58:00 ◼ ► In fact everything I've heard is that the hosts have an incredible amount of chemistry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7080">TS</a>]
01:58:05 ◼ ► but because I am completely ignorant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7085">TS</a>]
01:58:08 ◼ ► and clueless about about anything videogame related I just kind of assumed that I would be completely lost. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7088">TS</a>]
01:58:17 ◼ ► So over Steve admit that he's done everything to me and then he watches and unlike in the case it was of that show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7097">TS</a>]
01:58:28 ◼ ► Well how do you really feel. I don't think I've seen any of your perfect you know I've seen it I've seen it many times. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7108">TS</a>]
01:58:35 ◼ ► Thing Brianna's only thought is on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7115">TS</a>]
01:58:38 ◼ ► but I can't wait for the episode where she talks about how much she liked the prequels the story Spiegel. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7118">TS</a>]
01:58:42 ◼ ► Oh my God this is I told you this is a diversity of opinion. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7122">TS</a>]
01:58:47 ◼ ► Some of them are terribly wrong but if they're diverse you know for what it's worth. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7127">TS</a>]
01:58:52 ◼ ► Terminator two and Top Gun where the two movies that we had on laserdisc that movie had many believe there's a what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7132">TS</a>]
01:59:02 ◼ ► but they're not the company vs two movies in particular were amazing for using the scroll wheel that was on the remote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7142">TS</a>]
01:59:10 ◼ ► controlled you know what I'm talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7150">TS</a>]
01:59:12 ◼ ► So it's kind of like what you call the thing on the i Pod the clickwheel or whatever you call it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7152">TS</a>]
01:59:17 ◼ ► but there was no clicking to it but you could go frame by frame because it was digital. Well it kind of wasn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7157">TS</a>]
01:59:24 ◼ ► You're right it was weird like it represented analog video signals on a digital medium it was it was very strange I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7164">TS</a>]
01:59:32 ◼ ► not too familiar with the details [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7172">TS</a>]
01:59:33 ◼ ► but one of the things that it always of the audio there was that it all audio I believe was digital [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7173">TS</a>]
01:59:39 ◼ ► but it was weird it with the Jewish It was very strange yet so the point I'm driving at though is when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7179">TS</a>]
01:59:45 ◼ ► when the Terminator thing would come out of the wrecked eighteen wheelers spoiler alert [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7185">TS</a>]
01:59:51 ◼ ► and go from like liquid to person I remember just sitting there with the with the remote control spinning backwards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7191">TS</a>]
01:59:58 ◼ ► and forwards and backwards and forwards why. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7198">TS</a>]
02:00:00 ◼ ► Especially to go frame by frame and it was amazing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7200">TS</a>]
02:00:02 ◼ ► and then Top Gun was awesome because it was a perfect example of surround sound which back in whatever the hell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7202">TS</a>]
02:00:09 ◼ ► know this was was like a really new thing to have at home and my goodness it was amazing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7209">TS</a>]
02:00:17 ◼ ► Each something ologist in the chat is shit. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7217">TS</a>]
02:00:20 ◼ ► TOLLAND just says the control of the remote was a jock shuttle controller someone higher [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7220">TS</a>]
02:00:24 ◼ ► and V.C.R.'s have them too that's what I'm talking about and you know it was it was amazing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7224">TS</a>]
02:00:28 ◼ ► Laserdiscs was better than laser disks were better than I think they got credit for just I forgot we had this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7228">TS</a>]
02:00:35 ◼ ► That you went through and marked down because we're never gonna get there one system and I didn't come this way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7235">TS</a>]
02:00:39 ◼ ► I'm too whatever let's do it with them. Cut out all the stubble is just in the middle. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7239">TS</a>]
02:00:43 ◼ ► Yeah the stuff on with that of the N.S.A. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7243">TS</a>]
02:00:45 ◼ ► And I think we dispense with this quickly because we all agree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7245">TS</a>]
02:00:48 ◼ ► and keeping on the pan stuff all right go from of course button fly agenda. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7248">TS</a>]
02:00:52 ◼ ► Let's talk about markdown standard markdown complex markdown conventional markdown whatever the current flavor is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7252">TS</a>]
02:00:59 ◼ ► strict markdown. Well Kim Can one of you give me a quick summary about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7259">TS</a>]
02:01:05 ◼ ► So the summary is John government marked down a long time ago he likes it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7265">TS</a>]
02:01:09 ◼ ► Other people think there are problems with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7269">TS</a>]
02:01:11 ◼ ► but they want to use variants of markdown there are many variants of markdown exist as multi markdown there is good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7271">TS</a>]
02:01:17 ◼ ► hope flavored markdown there's all sorts of different kinds of mark out one particular person has been upset with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7277">TS</a>]
02:01:23 ◼ ► way John Gerber's arcana works for a long time that Jeff would have coding har he made a blog post two years ago that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7283">TS</a>]
02:01:29 ◼ ► really wish that markdown could be a better maintained and better defined in the spec. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7289">TS</a>]
02:01:35 ◼ ► If you could reduce ambiguity than bugs could be fixed because we all want to use markdown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7295">TS</a>]
02:01:39 ◼ ► but everybody uses a different implementation of markdown is just a giant mess so recently came out with something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7299">TS</a>]
02:01:45 ◼ ► he was calling standard markdown which was a much more highly specified variant of markdown where they were removed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7305">TS</a>]
02:01:55 ◼ ► or reduced vastly reduced the ambiguities in language to say this is how we were. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7315">TS</a>]
02:02:00 ◼ ► Into Work Here's a test suite Here's a sample of the patients here the specification there ever if everyone complies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7320">TS</a>]
02:02:05 ◼ ► with this we will have marked down that agrees with each other and everything will be fine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7325">TS</a>]
02:02:10 ◼ ► and good except for the fact that he called it standard mark which was a slap in the face to Gruber because how can I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7330">TS</a>]
02:02:17 ◼ ► make he might as well call that the official real markdown. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7337">TS</a>]
02:02:20 ◼ ► I'm not involved in the name of the one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7340">TS</a>]
02:02:22 ◼ ► and only genuine official real mark down that was a bad choice of names for many many reasons as it makes it seem like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7342">TS</a>]
02:02:29 ◼ ► that this is the one and only official mark down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7349">TS</a>]
02:02:32 ◼ ► when that is the case is a million different kinds of markdown it makes it seem like they are the people who are sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7352">TS</a>]
02:02:37 ◼ ► of owning control markdown which is not the case they don't want to control mark down and so that was dumb [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7357">TS</a>]
02:02:43 ◼ ► and it's a shame because I agree with the goals of better mark and specification even though I don't like markdown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7363">TS</a>]
02:02:52 ◼ ► Calling your thing the one and only superficial totally the main forget about all the ones marked down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7372">TS</a>]
02:02:59 ◼ ► They should've you know different name like just and here's the thing about the name. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7379">TS</a>]
02:03:05 ◼ ► If they pick a different name like football like that was a name to stop all that would have been fine too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7385">TS</a>]
02:03:11 ◼ ► Like I don't think it would have hurt their cause it all anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7391">TS</a>]
02:03:14 ◼ ► They since renamed it the common mark down I don't see how that's any real well known here the best thing about that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7394">TS</a>]
02:03:19 ◼ ► have you read as I read I think it's slightly less terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7399">TS</a>]
02:03:22 ◼ ► No but here's the best thing about the post like I read it before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7402">TS</a>]
02:03:24 ◼ ► and it starts off going to like we were sorry we made a mistake. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7404">TS</a>]
02:03:28 ◼ ► John Grover made demands he want to take down our domains that are market com not have it redirected he wants us to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7408">TS</a>]
02:03:34 ◼ ► rename our thing he wants to apologize and he did all those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7414">TS</a>]
02:03:38 ◼ ► but what they renamed it to was like we gave we sent a bunch of these names [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7418">TS</a>]
02:03:41 ◼ ► and we said what about this name that name any other name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7421">TS</a>]
02:03:43 ◼ ► and we didn't get a reply so we're using kind of markdown What do you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7423">TS</a>]
02:03:46 ◼ ► when you can't change the name with like the whole point is called something it doesn't have marked down in the name. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7426">TS</a>]
02:03:52 ◼ ► You're fine with that call it whatever you want call it you know call it hand turkey call it whatever you want. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7432">TS</a>]
02:04:00 ◼ ► Or call something with Mark down the name they groom approves of you can say we're going to do everything you say we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7440">TS</a>]
02:04:05 ◼ ► going to rename it and both a new suggestion of a name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7445">TS</a>]
02:04:07 ◼ ► but we got tired of waiting so we have to take one that we felt like it and common. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7447">TS</a>]
02:04:10 ◼ ► Not really much better it sounds like it's like Common Lisp like it sounds like the official one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7450">TS</a>]
02:04:15 ◼ ► and only like they're sabotaging their own cause their own cause is good I think it is good to have what they're doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7455">TS</a>]
02:04:21 ◼ ► technically is good what they're doing socially is bad it's very bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7461">TS</a>]
02:04:25 ◼ ► and they seem to just like it's like shoot themselves in the foot reload the gun pointed the other foot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7465">TS</a>]
02:04:30 ◼ ► and they're like grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7470">TS</a>]
02:04:35 ◼ ► I mean and that's the thing with this like you know following I follow Jeff Atwood loosely and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7475">TS</a>]
02:04:42 ◼ ► and even following him loosely I've seen ever since they started Stack Overflow how many years ago was that eight years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7482">TS</a>]
02:04:49 ◼ ► ago it's been a long time ever since I started stack overflow with which included markdown. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7489">TS</a>]
02:04:57 ◼ ► Jeff Atwood has been very hostile dismissive and condescending towards John Gruber and his ownership of markdown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7497">TS</a>]
02:05:04 ◼ ► and the hostility has been so clear the entire time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7504">TS</a>]
02:05:08 ◼ ► It's very very clear that Jeff does not respect John and that and that Jeff feels that he is entitled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7508">TS</a>]
02:05:17 ◼ ► and that is other people involved but I think I think Jeff was pretty much running it for a while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7517">TS</a>]
02:05:22 ◼ ► and probably is still very important in this process. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7522">TS</a>]
02:05:26 ◼ ► This group of people very much obviously feels that they have the right to co-opt markdown because Gruber has not done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7526">TS</a>]
02:05:34 ◼ ► that much with it recently and the fact that it has not changed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7534">TS</a>]
02:05:39 ◼ ► You know the better part of a decade that like there are so many I was little bit on Twitter earlier like there are so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7539">TS</a>]
02:05:46 ◼ ► many bad counterarguments he'll keep making to try to support what they're doing here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7546">TS</a>]
02:05:51 ◼ ► One one of those bad can arguments is well good we're doesn't talk shit like a decade. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7551">TS</a>]
02:05:55 ◼ ► Well yeah the M P three file format hasn't changed in a few decades. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7555">TS</a>]
02:06:00 ◼ ► Neither has a jeep exile from a like there's that there are things that don't change the doesn't mean there that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7560">TS</a>]
02:06:04 ◼ ► doesn't mean they're neglected or abandoned. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7564">TS</a>]
02:06:05 ◼ ► But that doesn't matter like I mean it doesn't matter whether it's changed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7565">TS</a>]
02:06:09 ◼ ► and it doesn't none of them none of that really matters that's like stress explaining why Jeff is frustrated. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7569">TS</a>]
02:06:13 ◼ ► That's what it explains why are people frustrated Why are people doing this all Dungarpur stewardship of Mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7573">TS</a>]
02:06:19 ◼ ► and explains why people have the feelings they feel right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7579">TS</a>]
02:06:22 ◼ ► Because I think that is that is you know and I share those feelings frankly like any news markdowns I don't care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7582">TS</a>]
02:06:27 ◼ ► but I like but then what do you do with those feelings. That's where the rubber hits the road. I feel frustrated. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7587">TS</a>]
02:06:33 ◼ ► Then what then do you demand that something happens. No because you have no right to demand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7593">TS</a>]
02:06:38 ◼ ► Would you like to fork it by all means to call it whatever you want you know make your own thing like you have so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7598">TS</a>]
02:06:44 ◼ ► freedom available to you to do these things and groomers even OK with things like multi Marketing get get out Mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7604">TS</a>]
02:06:50 ◼ ► and ask him hey we're going to we're going to make I think it over. Mark asked permission right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7610">TS</a>]
02:06:54 ◼ ► We're going to make some variant of markdown. We'd like to call X. Y. and Z. Thumbs up or thumbs down. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7614">TS</a>]
02:06:59 ◼ ► Why does he have the quote unquote right to give back because he made markdown of the name that he made up for thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7619">TS</a>]
02:07:04 ◼ ► that he made like it's just common courtesy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7624">TS</a>]
02:07:08 ◼ ► Like it just ignore all the galaxies entirely is just like it's just common courtesy like even to say like well as Mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7628">TS</a>]
02:07:15 ◼ ► and that would have made my own thing maybe you would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7635">TS</a>]
02:07:18 ◼ ► but it wouldn't be called mark down what it would be called out of the whole name that you made up so make up your own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7638">TS</a>]
02:07:21 ◼ ► name and so like the technical issues it was all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7641">TS</a>]
02:07:24 ◼ ► and like the you know the entitlement to whatever like that is all just an explanation of why people feel the way they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7644">TS</a>]
02:07:30 ◼ ► feel but none of it just by the actions that are going on in the actions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7650">TS</a>]
02:07:33 ◼ ► and justified like in terms of just not even like morally or ethically or legally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7653">TS</a>]
02:07:38 ◼ ► but just like being a nice personally whatever word that says just and even practically speaking. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7658">TS</a>]
02:07:45 ◼ ► Forget about being a nice person. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7665">TS</a>]
02:07:46 ◼ ► Practically speaking if you want your partner to be successful I don't shoot it like don't get all start off on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7666">TS</a>]
02:07:52 ◼ ► wrong foot like there's no reason I totally applaud this effort that I think love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7672">TS</a>]
02:07:56 ◼ ► or they've gone through to try to standardize what is an ill specified. Just probably untenable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7676">TS</a>]
02:08:03 ◼ ► Market system to be every aspirant like they've made a heroic effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7683">TS</a>]
02:08:07 ◼ ► and just destroy it all by doing something jerky like why why would you get it so unnecessary like you know no no one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7687">TS</a>]
02:08:14 ◼ ► is objecting to them making a standardized markdown syntax. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7694">TS</a>]
02:08:19 ◼ ► No one as yet know that the only thing people are getting to legitimately is the name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7699">TS</a>]
02:08:26 ◼ ► and what the name represents co-opting trying to co-opt something that's what it's like the name is the embodiment of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7706">TS</a>]
02:08:32 ◼ ► that attempt to co-opt the name is like we are trying to co-opt this thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7712">TS</a>]
02:08:36 ◼ ► I guess we feel like it is not to maintain even the attitude in jest post tonight that they that after the after the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7716">TS</a>]
02:08:42 ◼ ► public outcry from from a lot of people about the standard markdown which is an incredibly arrogant name to co-opt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7722">TS</a>]
02:08:50 ◼ ► someone else's project and call yours the standard. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7730">TS</a>]
02:08:53 ◼ ► After that this post saying that they were in a car markets like we were you basically says is so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7733">TS</a>]
02:09:02 ◼ ► We replied to John Gruber with these list of names. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7742">TS</a>]
02:09:05 ◼ ► That all still contain the word markdown and are all compatible markdown regular markdown communally. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7745">TS</a>]
02:09:12 ◼ ► I mean Grover said he's OK He's OK with like some variant of markdown like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7752">TS</a>]
02:09:16 ◼ ► but you know it's like he gave like pedantic pedantic markdown was it that he thing he thought he might have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7756">TS</a>]
02:09:22 ◼ ► and he said he said strict markdown which I think that I think that would be descriptive I would now be OK with strict [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7762">TS</a>]
02:09:27 ◼ ► markdown either of us still sounds like what they should do is don't use the word markdown at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7767">TS</a>]
02:09:33 ◼ ► Yeah that that would leave them completely in the clear. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7773">TS</a>]
02:09:37 ◼ ► We know morally argumentatively and let their project proceed into something productive. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7777">TS</a>]
02:09:42 ◼ ► Right now it's always going to have this this asterisk on it's always going to be controversial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7782">TS</a>]
02:09:48 ◼ ► and then the worst thing is if you read this post or like so Jeff's so we so you know grammar and he sent an email. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7788">TS</a>]
02:09:57 ◼ ► They reply that with this list of suggestions. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7797">TS</a>]
02:10:01 ◼ ► and tonight they haven't received a response in twenty four hours they just picked one of their suggestions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7801">TS</a>]
02:10:07 ◼ ► and assume groupers OK with that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7807">TS</a>]
02:10:09 ◼ ► You were reading the post I said that before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7809">TS</a>]
02:10:10 ◼ ► but yes I can't I go I go hard you know you have you know you haven't gotten permission that is so it's so rash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7810">TS</a>]
02:10:20 ◼ ► and unnecessarily inflammatory like seriously just caught something else you will avoid all of these problems. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7820">TS</a>]
02:10:26 ◼ ► Just call it anything else so that your project can have one hundred percent credibility without all this controversy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7826">TS</a>]
02:10:35 ◼ ► There is no reason and even this post the way anyone about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7835">TS</a>]
02:10:40 ◼ ► and the way they just assume they had permission after twenty four hours of no objection like what's the hurry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7840">TS</a>]
02:10:45 ◼ ► That's so arrogant that is so that is so just. That's a terrible move. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7845">TS</a>]
02:10:51 ◼ ► It's such a huge difference if it's a temp thing is attempting to force someone's hand by well wouldn't hear of you for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7851">TS</a>]
02:10:56 ◼ ► a day so we're just going to go forward there's not going to force you to react and it's not playing that game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7856">TS</a>]
02:11:00 ◼ ► Yeah it's this is awful I mean I don't think I don't think that was a bad guy I've met him a couple times to talk to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7860">TS</a>]
02:11:06 ◼ ► him a couple times I don't think he's a bad guy but this is just so incredibly tone deaf and it really does. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7866">TS</a>]
02:11:13 ◼ ► It just it's and it's so easily avoidable. This project is brand new Jeff Atwood has a hell of a microphone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7873">TS</a>]
02:11:21 ◼ ► You can call it anything you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7881">TS</a>]
02:11:23 ◼ ► and it will get off the ground just as well as if you call it anything marked out you can call it anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7883">TS</a>]
02:11:29 ◼ ► Yet also arrive on its own merits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7889">TS</a>]
02:11:31 ◼ ► and the merits are substantial because they are there for filling a market need for these three very very popular Web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7891">TS</a>]
02:11:36 ◼ ► sites that want to stand on I think go ahead standardize it taken out of a hat you know like have a little contest for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7896">TS</a>]
02:11:41 ◼ ► a name like you did for the second or follow it like when you have the tools to do this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7901">TS</a>]
02:11:46 ◼ ► Yeah like you can you can really you can call it anything and this is the time to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7906">TS</a>]
02:11:51 ◼ ► when a project has just gotten off the ground it's just starting it's brand new you know your version of it is brand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7911">TS</a>]
02:11:56 ◼ ► new and that's the only thing that's up. Problem is the name. Just fix it. Not a big deal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7916">TS</a>]
02:12:04 ◼ ► Yeah the Roman elsewhere on the web are like well the B.S.D. License on markdown the P.L.O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7924">TS</a>]
02:12:09 ◼ ► Which is the perl file that implements markdown a girl made says that you can use the name markdown and blah blah blah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7929">TS</a>]
02:12:14 ◼ ► All of that is irrelevant because that applies to the source code and nobody using that source code. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7934">TS</a>]
02:12:21 ◼ ► They're all trying to do their own independent involved nations anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7941">TS</a>]
02:12:24 ◼ ► This has nothing to do with legality and everything to do with like not sabotaging yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7944">TS</a>]
02:12:29 ◼ ► and not being a jerk like that's it like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7949">TS</a>]
02:12:31 ◼ ► and I don't think we're bored ever pursue it legally because that would be kind of pointless. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7951">TS</a>]
02:12:35 ◼ ► It's like it's all about being nice to people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7955">TS</a>]
02:12:37 ◼ ► and the reason they don't they don't get replies is because they've been you know not just in so many times would you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7957">TS</a>]
02:12:43 ◼ ► keep replying to moments like what do you expect it's like well if you know I can reply We're just going to talk your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7963">TS</a>]
02:12:48 ◼ ► thing and be jerks about it and it's like well you can be jerks better not to respond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7968">TS</a>]
02:12:51 ◼ ► or you know well you know his bottom a mound is going to pick another name anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7971">TS</a>]
02:12:54 ◼ ► Like this needless needless drama that just yeah I mean I knew as soon as that center mark down the starting time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7974">TS</a>]
02:13:03 ◼ ► or doesn't like it last very long and sure enough but I I have to admit that I was surprised [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7983">TS</a>]
02:13:07 ◼ ► when the rename post came and the new name was with no permission and no blessing common marked out like a light. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7987">TS</a>]
02:13:15 ◼ ► I was so hopeful my God this is speedy they were they realize their mistake sooner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7995">TS</a>]
02:13:18 ◼ ► and they're correcting it in the doing or they're supposed to look. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/7998">TS</a>]
02:13:22 ◼ ► Yeah well and again it's you can you can tell the attitude of this post and that's how they're going about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8002">TS</a>]
02:13:28 ◼ ► It's more of the same that they not only do they feel entitled to only mark down themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8008">TS</a>]
02:13:34 ◼ ► but they really do not respect John Gruber at all and they don't respect him as a person even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8014">TS</a>]
02:13:41 ◼ ► and that that has become very clear here. They really really look down upon him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8021">TS</a>]
02:13:46 ◼ ► Well they don't respect him as an open source project maintainer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8026">TS</a>]
02:13:48 ◼ ► and I think it's a terrible open source version maintainer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8028">TS</a>]
02:13:51 ◼ ► but that doesn't give you the right to be a jerk like you can you can have an ever opinion you want about that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8031">TS</a>]
02:13:56 ◼ ► be like oh I don't like the way felt fine great you don't like the way you handle it it is like the way you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8036">TS</a>]
02:14:00 ◼ ► And a lot your products do and that doesn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8040">TS</a>]
02:14:02 ◼ ► Therefore I get to do this no not therefore you get to do that and no it doesn't follow. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8042">TS</a>]
02:14:07 ◼ ► So it's like they're giving into their their frustrations on technical and sort of you know issues of stewardship [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8047">TS</a>]
02:14:13 ◼ ► and stuff it's like feel free to have those feelings. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8053">TS</a>]
02:14:15 ◼ ► But like you cannot parlay those feelings into being a jerk and say well justified because this guy's not good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8055">TS</a>]
02:14:20 ◼ ► He would doesn't he isn't running is probably the way I would run it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8060">TS</a>]
02:14:24 ◼ ► Yeah well different project one of the way you want. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8064">TS</a>]
02:14:27 ◼ ► So I try because I'm an idiot to respond to most of the mail I get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8067">TS</a>]
02:14:33 ◼ ► and all cation Lee I'll get just extremely kind generous wonderful e-mails you know long it takes me to reply to most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8073">TS</a>]
02:14:44 ◼ ► Somewhere between one and three weeks because I get so much freakin e-mail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8084">TS</a>]
02:14:48 ◼ ► and I am nowhere near the level of celebrity that John Gruber. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8088">TS</a>]
02:14:52 ◼ ► He didn't not respond if you know around an e-mail he didn't respond he didn't want to respond. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8092">TS</a>]
02:14:56 ◼ ► And like honestly even if he totally planned to respond. What's wrong with him taking a day or two to think about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8096">TS</a>]
02:15:02 ◼ ► It's like here's here's the big thing about this like like somebody in the chair just said here is a tangible goods in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8102">TS</a>]
02:15:08 ◼ ► the chat just said Yeah I think all the disrespect comes from the fact that Gruber doesn't want to blank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8108">TS</a>]
02:15:12 ◼ ► or going off the pot when it comes to markdown like what people I think are not understanding. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8112">TS</a>]
02:15:20 ◼ ► Well and this argument is that John Gruber has no obligation to do anything with markdown. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8120">TS</a>]
02:15:25 ◼ ► He has no obligation at all to respond to Jeff with the e-mails he has an obligation at all to make changes that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8125">TS</a>]
02:15:33 ◼ ► want or to fix perceived or actual bugs or problems with Mark down. It's his project. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8133">TS</a>]
02:15:41 ◼ ► and again leaving aside the legalities of things like trademarks you know that's those are all arguable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8141">TS</a>]
02:15:46 ◼ ► I think just common sense looking at this he owns this and to to think that you can just go up and take it as yours [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8146">TS</a>]
02:15:55 ◼ ► and say well he doesn't seem to be using it so we're going to take the project over. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8155">TS</a>]
02:16:00 ◼ ► You know there's a way to do that respectfully and the way to do that respectfully is to fork it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8160">TS</a>]
02:16:05 ◼ ► and use your own branding period and not try to commandeer his because it does not matter what what he is doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8165">TS</a>]
02:16:14 ◼ ► or not doing with it it is still his and there is nothing wrong with you doing your own take on it with your name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8174">TS</a>]
02:16:24 ◼ ► and in the normal open source world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8184">TS</a>]
02:16:26 ◼ ► People get super pissed about forks and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8186">TS</a>]
02:16:28 ◼ ► and Gruber's like fine forget like he is being a much nicer than most maintainers open source products are alike who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8188">TS</a>]
02:16:34 ◼ ► view any kind of fork at the hostel a tenth takeover especially if you give it a new name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8194">TS</a>]
02:16:38 ◼ ► and it's like you want to be the new thing it's like no way we're like They hate that group was like go ahead like do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8198">TS</a>]
02:16:44 ◼ ► whatever you want. Like Mark I was not hard to MY yourself you don't need a source code at all it's a B.S.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8204">TS</a>]
02:16:49 ◼ ► License if you want to then you can use and be willing to give you the source code. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8209">TS</a>]
02:16:52 ◼ ► LOL you know you've been a marked out the like it's like go ahead call them to what you want make your own thing like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8212">TS</a>]
02:16:57 ◼ ► don't care this is my thing. Feel free to have your thing here in the grand scheme of maintainers open source. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8217">TS</a>]
02:17:03 ◼ ► He is incredibly generous of going to be willing to let you do with his idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8223">TS</a>]
02:17:07 ◼ ► and his source code it's not even like G.P.L. Is like a B.S.D. Variant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8227">TS</a>]
02:17:12 ◼ ► He's willing to let people make things called insert modifier here markdown which way more than most other open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8232">TS</a>]
02:17:17 ◼ ► people let you do. Try doing that with Twitter right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8237">TS</a>]
02:17:20 ◼ ► Try to you know I don't know maybe prosperous is good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8240">TS</a>]
02:17:22 ◼ ► but I try to try to make like you know a standard my sequence you know much the mice you know like what you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8242">TS</a>]
02:17:30 ◼ ► and it's just it's all this comes from frustration like he's not running a project the right way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8250">TS</a>]
02:17:34 ◼ ► and he's not running the process the way I would want I agree with all the things I do not think is right in front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8254">TS</a>]
02:17:37 ◼ ► your oh I don't think it rain to our runner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8257">TS</a>]
02:17:39 ◼ ► but you can't then just doesn't fall this is huge gap between disagreeing what someone's doing with their project [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8259">TS</a>]
02:17:48 ◼ ► and you deciding that you are now you are now the standard bearer for that project that you did not start. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8268">TS</a>]
02:17:54 ◼ ► All right we got that pretty early I think it's pretty open close I think common markdown will not last. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8274">TS</a>]
02:18:00 ◼ ► Name then we will see more of this but there's a time and I think that will come and erase all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8280">TS</a>]
02:18:03 ◼ ► and so maybe we'll talk about it five shows from now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8283">TS</a>]
02:18:05 ◼ ► when it is called Something that does not have marked down the name and we finally get this all behind us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8285">TS</a>]
02:18:10 ◼ ► Do you really think he's going to change in him again I don't think you will it's gotta change can't leave it is common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8290">TS</a>]
02:18:14 ◼ ► it's ridiculous there's too much too many people think is a jerk for doing it and they're right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8294">TS</a>]
02:18:18 ◼ ► But the attitude he has in this post does not fill me with hope that he's going to admit that this was not good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8298">TS</a>]
02:18:28 ◼ ► Once he admitted that he screwed up the first time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8308">TS</a>]
02:18:32 ◼ ► and then screwed up a second time so I'm going to write a third time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8312">TS</a>]
02:18:36 ◼ ► Right I think it's interesting like not one of the names that he suggested to Gruber didn't contain markdown program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8316">TS</a>]
02:18:45 ◼ ► or had said he's OK with like pedantic markdown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8325">TS</a>]
02:18:47 ◼ ► or maybe even struck Marquel like there is a precedent for modifier markdown to Gruber is OK We're going to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8327">TS</a>]
02:18:52 ◼ ► permission to be just fine use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8332">TS</a>]
02:18:53 ◼ ► but if he does if he says if he doesn't say find any your name then just begun No it's really easy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8333">TS</a>]
02:18:59 ◼ ► Yeah it's you know going back to your discussion about good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8339">TS</a>]
02:19:02 ◼ ► and bad business like which I merely was on a much more important topic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8342">TS</a>]
02:19:05 ◼ ► but I still like it if this is just bad business like if you want your standard to actually have power to have a chance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8345">TS</a>]
02:19:13 ◼ ► of becoming quote a standard as instead of as you say it standard you know insert X K C D comic here instead of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8353">TS</a>]
02:19:20 ◼ ► saying that for it to actually be adopted to be widely out there to be powerful to be the standard they can't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8360">TS</a>]
02:19:29 ◼ ► stupid crap like this time get down like stupid crap like the stupid argument about the name. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8369">TS</a>]
02:19:34 ◼ ► It's a it's a sideshow it's a distraction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8374">TS</a>]
02:19:36 ◼ ► and people say well this sideshow is good for the city Jeff Atwood does not need this sideshow to make proposals like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8376">TS</a>]
02:19:41 ◼ ► it some people may need this kind of because otherwise been no one noticed that Jeff Atwood does not need this it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8381">TS</a>]
02:19:49 ◼ ► and it's angering a lot of people in the community of people he needs to attract people people like Mark down those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8389">TS</a>]
02:19:56 ◼ ► people. Yeah there's a lot of those like those the people you don't want to piss off people like me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8396">TS</a>]
02:20:00 ◼ ► Who cares I don't use Martin and I don't care and even I'm against them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8400">TS</a>]
02:20:03 ◼ ► and it's like the people love markdown really hates you for doing this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8403">TS</a>]
02:20:06 ◼ ► You know his like and markdown has spread it has become so widespread because of people like Jeff Atwood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8406">TS</a>]
02:20:14 ◼ ► and like me like markdown is on tumblr because I put it there because David didn't really know what it was or care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8414">TS</a>]
02:20:21 ◼ ► and I wanted it there so one day when tumblr was still really small I just put it there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8421">TS</a>]
02:20:26 ◼ ► Markdown is on Stack Overflow because Jeff Atwood was the co-founder of Stack Overflow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8426">TS</a>]
02:20:31 ◼ ► and one day he wanted it there so he put it there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8431">TS</a>]
02:20:34 ◼ ► It's this kind of community of people it's people who read John Gruber site who fall so for those who are part of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8434">TS</a>]
02:20:42 ◼ ► community who are you know programmers who are who are into the sort of stuff who follow the stuff online. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8442">TS</a>]
02:20:47 ◼ ► It's people like us who are responsible for the spread of this kind of technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8447">TS</a>]
02:20:52 ◼ ► and the spread of these kind of standards are non-standard it's this community that he is polarising by by being a dick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8452">TS</a>]
02:21:00 ◼ ► and that will really harm this if he has to he has to not let people just do it on such a trivial ground as he stole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8460">TS</a>]
02:21:10 ◼ ► the name in kind of take it away like let people of Jeff to it over its merits or let it win on its merits. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8470">TS</a>]
02:21:17 ◼ ► Don't give people stupid animal like this that is so easily avoided it so easily changed because that that ultimately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8477">TS</a>]
02:21:25 ◼ ► is harming the goal he's trying to achieve and in what I think is a bigger way than he realizes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8485">TS</a>]
02:21:31 ◼ ► Yeah but it's only been less trusting twenty four hours now. So anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8491">TS</a>]
02:21:37 ◼ ► Well revisit after some time in advance even came in the meantime let's keep doing what you're doing if you even if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8497">TS</a>]
02:21:45 ◼ ► tiny American flags for some mark down for others. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8505">TS</a>]
02:21:48 ◼ ► So apparently there's a Personally I don't understand that reference second right after enough of the quote So you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8508">TS</a>]
02:21:55 ◼ ► forgiven. It's also the second time you use that reference on our show I use it way more than two times. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8515">TS</a>]
02:22:00 ◼ ► My life believe me. Let's do titles. Accidental markdown. Now do you do anything for fun. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8520">TS</a>]
02:22:07 ◼ ► I feel like that's worth it just to shame John but it's probably not the best came in for what is a shame you do not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8527">TS</a>]
02:22:14 ◼ ► Nothing able to think of things I do for fun despite the fact we talk about them constantly do nothing for nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8534">TS</a>]
02:22:20 ◼ ► other than those those things that we constantly talk about. You do nothing outside the house for fun. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8540">TS</a>]
02:22:25 ◼ ► Letter to stump you got of the question for you guys to come over the things I do for fun outside the house I bet you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8545">TS</a>]
02:22:31 ◼ ► can. I guess you can play games outside your house on portable device. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8551">TS</a>]
02:22:35 ◼ ► No no that's true but go to the movies where the movies there at the movie theaters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8555">TS</a>]
02:22:40 ◼ ► and times where you did are outside the house arrest Ratu ever going to restaurants are they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8560">TS</a>]
02:22:44 ◼ ► and how do you enjoy restaurants that you know he does not and I'm sure as I'm a New York more than I can go there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8564">TS</a>]
02:22:49 ◼ ► but I do enjoy them but I don't enjoy restaurants I do I have a prime rib. Who doesn't enjoy that that's good stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8569">TS</a>]
02:22:59 ◼ ► That was pretty good. That happens once a year if I know in the middle of a trip that makes you miserable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8579">TS</a>]
02:23:07 ◼ ► but I try to be there although the night after that as a parent I feel like someone should we only back to the hotel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8587">TS</a>]
02:23:12 ◼ ► but that's my experience. How tall are you John. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8592">TS</a>]
02:23:16 ◼ ► Six to a ship three of them like that all hundred fifty pounds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8596">TS</a>]
02:23:20 ◼ ► and six foot two inches of you yeah you really I thought I clean my plate there's nothing left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8600">TS</a>]
02:23:26 ◼ ► and I'm not going to haul Brent Simmons thing that's it he is the desert flies that's hardcore. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8606">TS</a>]
02:23:32 ◼ ► Forget it I can't do that. Two years in a row I have eaten the entire thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8612">TS</a>]
02:23:39 ◼ ► and I really like the markdown titles the real official markdown would be a good title for the markdown part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8619">TS</a>]
02:23:46 ◼ ► thing but that's you know two and a half hours in Arizona going to see the title and the like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8626">TS</a>]
02:23:51 ◼ ► but only into the fire we're expecting another reference I mean a million times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8631">TS</a>]
02:23:54 ◼ ► and I will keep making you cannot stop me if you don't have to make me give it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8634">TS</a>]
02:24:00 ◼ ► Peter you should know you have your own reference as you can reference things that I haven't seen like Saved By The [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8640">TS</a>]
02:24:06 ◼ ► Bell or something you know I don't know what you kids are into. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8646">TS</a>]
02:24:09 ◼ ► I made a hunt for an October reference on Twitter earlier in a five and a handful of people got it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8649">TS</a>]
02:24:13 ◼ ► and I was very happy with myself. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8653">TS</a>]
02:24:16 ◼ ► But you know common ground references understand you can feel free to make revenue is that I don't get if you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8656">TS</a>]
02:24:20 ◼ ► there are any and some of the challenge by so they should be playing fish Saved By The Bell. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8660">TS</a>]
02:24:26 ◼ ► Dave Matthews Band don't know anything about like rap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8666">TS</a>]
02:24:28 ◼ ► or that thing something tycoon train tycoon rail to railroad taken transport Teicher have Boris not just railroads all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8668">TS</a>]
02:24:35 ◼ ► transparent like it was. Was worse. Please email Casey I can't believe you're going to China. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8675">TS</a>]
02:24:43 ◼ ► I seriously thought about it I had a plan but in the end they cannot justify an expense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8683">TS</a>]
02:24:50 ◼ ► And yes the discomfort of the travel that is a factor got discounted the spreadsheet said no I cannot go north on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8690">TS</a>]
02:25:00 ◼ ► spreadsheet It's called weighing the reasons for and against. Everybody does in their head whether they know it or not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8700">TS</a>]
02:25:07 ◼ ► when I make decisions have invisible columns weighing down their invisible spreadsheet they don't know the spreadsheet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8707">TS</a>]
02:25:13 ◼ ► and I don't know what many of the columns and they just make decisions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8713">TS</a>]
02:25:15 ◼ ► and don't understand what they're made by just because I understand what factors into my decision does not mean I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdQscjQI/8715">TS</a>]