0:00:00That's how long it takes me to reboot. So nine minutes you know.
0:00:03Although I think it might still be some spinners on some chrome tabs
0:00:06and some Finder windows finder one of the last things to get spares off of them is are you talking to your friend like
0:00:12those like wake from sleep spinners like but since maverick serves
0:00:15and why I want to know the spinners that are in the upper right corner of a Finder window
0:00:19when it's trying to just display the contents not the here is a fake screen shot of a window
0:00:23and I'm going to put a giant spanner not those.
0:00:25I've never even seen the one you're talking about I don't think
0:00:28and how you give us if they don't seem to work is spinning this in about four million files on them literally
0:00:34and you get all sorts of spinners.
0:00:37If the chrome tabs die with the frowny face because they just assume the world is broken they give up you get to see
0:00:42Doc I stomp around thing in that I have you seen that lately.
0:00:47Something Mozilla even know that I like it so it's so bogged down that they can't balance.
0:00:52Now there's a so there's a certain I don't know if it's a number of bounces or a number of time
0:00:55but at a certain point the O. S.
0:00:56Gives up animating the bounce you know doesn't mean the apples hung in there that may eventually launch those just like
0:01:03because it's taking too long
0:01:04and it just gives up found still no light under it it's still the process of launching Eventually the little indicator
0:01:09light will appear under it. But I see it all the time.
0:01:12That's amazing part of the reason I haven't upgraded my machines because it's so fast
0:01:16and usable because it has a platter drive and I just don't want to deal with and I've almost but S.S.D.
0:01:21So many times so many. Well actually if you want to good deal on a new MacPro God save it for the show.
0:01:28I told you five dollars. That's a good deal. Someday I will take that off.
0:01:33No I don't want that
0:01:34and if you think you're willing to wait long enough right on an infinite time coach she says here we go that's not how
0:01:40that works.
0:01:44I thought all the items involved except for one because we do have a lot of fault
0:01:48but I'm trying to trim it further for today show the one thing I wanted to follow up on was on the last week show it
0:01:55was so long ago now because we delayed the show for the Apple event. I was excited about.
0:02:00The fact of the Game Cube controller adapter for the way you was going to let me use my game controller for any game on
0:02:06the way you that also supported that we've broken trough and
0:02:09when I saw that on some random web site I didn't believe it and I said I need confirmation of this
0:02:14and the website link to back to Nintendo's official website that's owned by the company
0:02:20and write their plain text unintended on Web site it said that yes you can use your games you control over the Captain
0:02:26for any when you game as opposed to U.
0:02:27Pro Controller and I was very excited Emerick recorded last week's podcast and then right after the podcast is over
0:02:34or maybe will like the next day or shortly thereafter.
0:02:37Nintendo itself
0:02:38and all the articles that cited in kind of itself if you're a corrections that oh no just kidding actually you can only
0:02:43use a verse Matt rather sorry about that. So I was sad. Well it makes me sad that you were sad.
0:02:49I went like this just the worst ever you know the kind of the rumours where you don't trust it until you see it it's
0:02:53like seeing something on Apple dot com saying you know you know you can use the the new i Macin the retina display for
0:03:00your macro and you have like a day of that where you're super excited
0:03:03and then the next day Apple says actually no you can't sorry that was a mistake on our website. Nice.
0:03:09Right do we want to talk about the event first or do we want to talk about your view first.
0:03:14Come on you missed the chance to say so has their review.
0:03:19You guys can pick
0:03:20when we have time for both of them because we've only done that one item a follow up so you can pick which one you want
0:03:26talk about first this week we're sponsored once again by our friends at square space the Allman flat form to make it
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0:03:51They have twenty four seventh's support through the live chat and email.
0:03:54Located in New York City and Dublin all this year for just eight dollars a month and this includes a FREE to me.
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0:04:15want now the really cool stuff they just announced square space seven they had a whole bunch of new stuff a square
0:04:20space seven it's really quite impressive I even went to the event talk to them afterwards.
0:04:25They've gotten so much stuff
0:04:27and it's really it's amazing what they basically do it you can try to they're rolling it out slowly to all the
0:04:32customers you can and you can opt in and there's no migration or data changes just a U.I. Change.
0:04:38But they've they don't have amazing things with the U.I.
0:04:40Where you're actually like there's no more separation of like the dashboard back end
0:04:46and the front with your content you actually edit your content live right there in your template on your site.
0:04:51It's really amazing what they've managed to pull off here you can preview everything that we're in this response if you
0:04:56can like shrink the window down and you'll see how your site will look on smaller screens
0:04:59and they will simulate an i Phone with a midnight Pad view it's really extremely impressive what they've managed to do
0:05:05is where space seven there was also the ability to have cover pages where if you want to temporarily
0:05:10or permanently have like a splash page to promote some new thing you've done
0:05:13or something like that you can do that very easily.
0:05:17Can you put it up temporarily just like celebrate like your boss your week or you can leave it there forever
0:05:21and have the party or navigation they've had so much stuff
0:05:24and seven they had this cool thing with Getty Images where you can buy some stock we're talking for just ten bucks you
0:05:29can browse a massive selection to get his catalog for this
0:05:33and you can you can embed the images right there in your page even if you just document for something that you're doing
0:05:37so really a very very impressive stuff they're doing here they had an email hosting if you need on your domain that's
0:05:43hosted by them all sorts of cool stuff.
0:05:45It's way too much to list and one in one hundred
0:05:47but let me tell you what they're they're doing some incredible stuff over the square space So anyway all that is square
0:05:52space seven. It is rolling out as we speak and you can opt into it. It's really as I said very very impressive anyway.
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0:06:06square space dot com and use the offer code A.T.P.
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0:06:21All right so we're recording this on Friday nights the seventeenth of October
0:06:26and yesterday there was another Apple event this time talking about a lot of stuff we already knew about
0:06:34and then some new i Pads And I think the first thing I should note is that the streaming for me
0:06:41and I was streaming to my i Pad Mini that is now sort of but not really old.
0:06:48No no it's new it's now the i Pad Mini two it got upgraded. Yeah that's true it is new.
0:06:52Yet the same anyway so it's streaming to i Pad Mini which is connected to my Dafter to a T.V.
0:07:00In my office that worked pretty much flawlessly the entire time
0:07:04and that was a welcome change from the utter disaster that was the i Phone keynote
0:07:09and I want to ask you guys do you think it's because nobody cared about the i Pad keynote
0:07:13and there were a lot fewer viewers.
0:07:15Or do you think that Apple actually got their stuff together or a little calm a little company.
0:07:20Well I'd say it's definitely a lot of calm and maybe a little bit of can be a mean.
0:07:26Every year the i Phone event is always by far the more important and the more the more watched
0:07:33and listen to one like if you asked if you have people who are on the big sites who do live blogs they'll tell you the
0:07:38same thing where like the the i Phone event is by far the bigger event of the year.
0:07:42And and you know people do care about the i Pad and stuff
0:07:45but it's it's a lot fewer non nerds who will actually go to the trouble of watching the stream live.
0:07:52You know last time they had not just performance problems
0:07:55but even if there was only one person listening they would have heard someone speaking in Chinese over half.
0:08:00Right so that's not a performance problem that's a you don't have your wires crossed kind of problem.
0:08:04Yeah so are do have your eyes cross and so this is the town hall
0:08:08and you go think of the home field advantage their words their database their database their network connection their
0:08:13network people all their own infrastructure their video guys where it seemed like there was a T.V.
0:08:19Truck that perhaps was not affiliated with Apple and it was involved in the i Watch event.
0:08:25I can still call the i Watch event because we call it that before we knew where the thing would be called so it's going
0:08:29to be forever be the i Watch it.
0:08:31Anyway I don't know if that's the case but it just seemed like when they did that or in the Flint Center
0:08:37and there's other big venue they don't have control over every part of the experience of broadcasting
0:08:42and it just fell apart whereas when they do it in their little town hall thing
0:08:45or wherever they did the i Pad event they control everything so yeah no problems with streaming here I had a running on
0:08:51two different streams.
0:08:52Then the game I played was trying to get stream its brother ahead because one stream would be like you know seven
0:08:58seconds ahead of the other one and I'd reloaded just for the hell of it to see if you jump forward
0:09:01but of that no drops.
0:09:04You know this time this event and the i Phone event I watched in the office
0:09:09and this time what I did was I made sure that I had tweet
0:09:14but always visible because I'm a really heavy user of what is that space is where you know you have multiple virtual
0:09:20desktops and I made sure the teapot was always visible
0:09:23and I engaged the pin the timeline to the top thing for you know if there's a better way of describing that it anyways.
0:09:31So basically as all these tweets come in the timeline is always automatically scrolling to the top
0:09:37and that was both the best
0:09:40and worst way to watch this keynote because I felt like I was thoroughly entertained by watching all these tweets go by
0:09:49with the exception of a thousand freakin dogs which I was really bored of very quickly
0:09:53but then again so were the dogs and and so it was almost more work watching the Twitter stream.
0:10:00And I was almost more interested watching the Twitter stream
0:10:02and I was the event which probably speaks to the quality of the event
0:10:05when you saw them doing just like demo after demo of things we've seen before.
0:10:10Let's go over the adoption numbers let's show you what's in these different O.
0:10:13S's and like not just mentioning them
0:10:15or putting a bullet point a slider like here let's show you why I was there to get it for you kidding me you knew there
0:10:20was not going to be a big exciting one more thing at the end of this you know this is going to be this little dog
0:10:26and pony show and then all the stuff that we knew was coming in which is fine
0:10:30but like I like I don't know why you need I guess they feel like they have a captive audience
0:10:34but why do you need to redemonstrate Iowa Zaidan in Yosemite that long for this type of thing just getting get out be
0:10:41done anyway. It wasn't that bad but I was fine. So they did all these demos I do think that.
0:10:49Federighi
0:10:49and I've said this several times in the past is my favorite presenter he pulls off the really dorky kind of dad jokes.
0:10:57I think better than anyone else I think Q.
0:11:00Tries to win it doesn't always land well which is probably how it would be if I was presenting these jokes
0:11:05but nevertheless I love Craig I think he does a wonderful job presenting I know I've said this a thousand times
0:11:12but he's so much better now than he ever used to be and I will never forget that first presentation
0:11:18and Kashi so much better now it's almost you could almost say that it's that I appreciate him more having seen that
0:11:24first presentation in like twenty eleven twenty twelve.
0:11:28But I thought I thought it was all really good
0:11:29and I thought the call with Stephen Colbert there as these silly ridiculous calls go was one of the better ones.
0:11:36So who's obsessed with the celebrities whose would we think of Tim Cook as a test of the celebrities I don't know it's
0:11:43weird.
0:11:44So I mean someone is because Steve Jobs was not in jail as Steve Jobs like they have a musical guest at the end the new
0:11:49images of them and all that stuff that was his thing
0:11:51but really really limited amount of you know stunt casting in the keynote because you know Steve Jobs is the star of
0:11:59those you like.
0:12:00Now it's like who you know that it's just you just come to expect it now and I thought the Colbert thing was fine.
0:12:07Like the problem with having called bear on is even over a phone which I couldn't believe they did over a phone he
0:12:12wasn't over didn't sound like he was over voice over IP The quality was terrible like he was on a POTS line it sounded
0:12:17like really bad right.
0:12:19That even over that you can see for the three
0:12:21or four little stilted lines he had to read it like see you guys this is what an actual performer you know I don't
0:12:28blame their executives at Apple like they're not actor they're not comedians which is probably why they shouldn't do
0:12:32comedies gets in the middle of these things like don't plan it out be spontaneously funny
0:12:36or pretend to be spontaneously funny Don't going to get.
0:12:39But Cabrera's line delivery even
0:12:41when reading this silly script was so much better than the other side of the conversation so don't don't bring real
0:12:46comedians on it just highlights how you are not a real comedian
0:12:49but I thought I was fine all the people who are like Marco just know a lot of people are cringing
0:12:53and couldn't handle the embarrassment of whatever I mean even even the silly thing with Bondo like that that was
0:13:00painful because both him
0:13:01and panels are not natural in the environment of trying to wear if I plus comedy plus drama plus whatever trying to do
0:13:09it is not their strength. Stephen Colbert was funny.
0:13:13Craig was fine the little handshake thing I thought was funny you know I think you know being able to do it that you
0:13:19guys had to do the handshake were funny. Oh I forgot about that that was even worse.
0:13:22I thought that was cute and sweet
0:13:25and I was going on showing the rumor site with the spaceship campus taking off those dumb
0:13:30but I got I just was so excited to think about someone had to go to their graphics department
0:13:34and say we need to fake a rumor make up a fake rumor
0:13:37and then they can also be rather more like the quality of that fake flying campus building rumor thing with so much
0:13:43higher than you has like a lot of effort in town going into a throwaway gag.
0:13:49That's a that's an area where they can help like Kobe on The Daily Show that he has got over the others
0:13:53and moshing graphics or some little picture to be up to the right of the talking head in five minutes
0:13:58or example some poor got out of our league. Well over the flying circular building.
0:14:03But anyway whatever I don't get too hung up on that part of the thing
0:14:08and we didn't expect great things out of this presentation anyway and so we got what we got right.
0:14:14I would rather have a presentation that's ten minutes shorter than have one that includes awkward
0:14:20and really painfully unfunny skits because they don't need that.
0:14:25You weren't amused a little bit by them like I was going to go.
0:14:28I would cut it in for a video showing it will be happy to get i Phones never do that again.
0:14:33Someone tweeted and I agree. Yeah we see it too many times.
0:14:35I would cut all the demos of things we've already seen demo because this is a low you know not many people are watching
0:14:40this the people who are watching it already know the Iowa State is about don't read them
0:14:44or that maybe do a little recap of Yosemite fine and then I would keep whatever the best segment was.
0:14:51Maybe keep the cold air thing in and drop the other one.
0:14:53But you know I just I just think someone has someone like celebrities
0:15:00and I don't know if it's over the top Tim Cook likes them or as individual B.P.
0:15:04Is like them or they just want to find excuses to talk their favorite celebrities which I wouldn't blame them for.
0:15:10One What advantages are there of being a senior vice president or C.E.O. Of Apple.
0:15:16Welcome it all I hear are celebrities. All right go ahead.
0:15:19I figure it's got to be Tim Cook because you can see like
0:15:22when Tim is involved you can see he's like getting yelled at like how incredibly happy he is
0:15:28and like no one else is nearly as excited as he is about what's you know like I think it's definitely you could tell it
0:15:35you know Cook is the one who's really into celebrities and that's why they keep happening.
0:15:38But man I wish they wouldn't because it just doesn't work.
0:15:41It's boring it's not funny it's painful and it detracts from the presentation.
0:15:47It detracts from the whole reason we're there.
0:15:49It is these are these are good presentations they have good things to announce.
0:15:54There's no reason to bring them down in this weird awkward way like it I don't know I.
0:16:00Yes I don't see why it's worth it. See I disagree more with John in that although they were kind of silly and lame.
0:16:08At least it shows that Apple has a little bit of personality and it's not just a completely boring stodgy.
0:16:14This is what we've come up with this is the new i Pad This is the new line Mac.
0:16:20And I felt like it at least added some color probably got beaten to death.
0:16:25But it's at least add some amount of entertainment end and cold Bears line about you know what I see on my return
0:16:33when I look at my wrist my wrist to get to work I thought that was hysterical.
0:16:37It was
0:16:38but the problem you know like as John said the problem isn't the delivery overall of the whole thing is usually like
0:16:44too slow too forced to awkward and you know and whether that side of just the Apple people
0:16:49or both sides varies on the scale
0:16:50but they don't need it because it doesn't see it doesn't seem to me like they're treating their commuting personality
0:16:56or adding personality to me it seems forced to script because you know we know these things are very scripted We know
0:17:01they've rehearsed we know we know they're almost every line is considered and written before hand.
0:17:06Well that that arrest line I assume was an ad lib.
0:17:09Yeah I had to read this like they give him a script and he looks at and goes Oh this is crap
0:17:14and then I'm assuming he made that line and self at the end maybe or me
0:17:17or maybe they approved it whatever the case is it's very clear these things are at least on the Apple side extremely
0:17:24scripted and extremely rehearsed and they're read an extremely slow pace which is good
0:17:30when you're presenting details of a product that the press has to write down what you're doing as some kind of like
0:17:35entertainment bit. It just feels really awkward forced and it doesn't feel to me it doesn't feel genuine.
0:17:42It feels like we thought this would get you excited. And we're kind of excited to do something with a celebrity.
0:17:49So we're doing it in this like planned artificial forced way but it does not feel genuine at all.
0:17:56Break up the flow of the presentation which is the biggest downside for but like.
0:18:00In the absence of genuine enthusiasm by the presenter about the tech details
0:18:05or the product features it's like this kind of is kind of filling the void
0:18:10and I don't think the filler is the problem of the voids it's the problem like there was it was I was many times
0:18:15or whatever Steve Jobs showed something there was some aspect of it that he was obviously super excited about
0:18:21and sometimes that aspect was stupid but his excitement was genuine
0:18:25and he was whatever it was excited about a volume button is excited about you know the edge of something is excited
0:18:31about a particular software feature he was super excited about
0:18:34and his enthusiasm despite whether you yourself were excited I was infectious you need something on that to drive the
0:18:40presentation and that
0:18:41and sometimes I get the idea that like at this point you know Craig Federighi is no longer a particular excited about
0:18:48Iowa said extensions because he's like that he's done with them like he was excited about doing them he did them he's
0:18:53talked about them onstage ten times now they're going to ship.
0:18:57He's probably worried about you know bugs and IO as they point one and I was nine
0:19:01or whatever he's worried about he can't muster the enthusiasm tell you X.
0:19:05I was about I was extensions what they mean for the I.R.S. Platform it's not like that.
0:19:09So to fill in that void of enthusiasm that's like God now will have a celebrity skit because they are excited about
0:19:16talking to Stephen Colbert
0:19:17and that's that I think is the worst part of it not this gets in themselves which is that they they seem to be filling
0:19:23in for something that's missing.
0:19:26Nary a thought about actual products that we certainly can't so they wrecked conned my beloved retina Padmini
0:19:36and now it's the i Pad Mini too. Yeah congratulations. Yeah.
0:19:40So now it makes even it will make Steven Hackett even more upset
0:19:43when I call threaten Padmini which that's kind of enjoyable I suppose.
0:19:47But yet so it's now the i Pad or the i Pad Mini too.
0:19:50I got that right I think and what they dropped the price one hundred dollars Is that correct.
0:19:55Not even not even rise to forty is to forty nine right. No that's that's that's the.
0:20:00Old one which is still for sale which is crazy that they are still for another year
0:20:05or at least for now they are still selling the A five based i Pad Mini one which is based on the i Pad two which came
0:20:13out in two thousand and eleven and the i Pad
0:20:15and the i Pod touch of the same of the many of the five right it's belief I bet.
0:20:20I mean even though they didn't announce a new one they're still selling the old one I assume. Yeah.
0:20:24So this as a developer that makes me nervous and a little frustrated because you know the A five was a great chip
0:20:32when it came out in twenty eleven in early twenty seven at that but it is now no longer a great chip
0:20:39but it is you know if anybody tries to run I was eight on an original I have had many an i Pad three which is the same
0:20:48a five C.P.U. With bigger G.P.U. So I've had many number and I've had three any i Pod and the i Phone four S.
0:20:57Those are all the five devices.
0:20:59If you tried to run I was on an A five device you know that that's not a great experience it works
0:21:06but it's it's pretty rough.
0:21:08And that's because there are now still selling devices that use that that means that chances are it's a I would say
0:21:18obviously we're stuck with this for the next year.
0:21:19But what's going to happen next year
0:21:21when I was nine comes out is I was nine going to still need to support this because they're still going to be selling
0:21:27it when it is they're still going to be selling original I've had many is
0:21:30when it comes out it's constricting everybody's interest.
0:21:33It's especially bad for game developers or anybody who depends on a lot of G.P.U. Power.
0:21:38The funny thing is I think they showed in the presentation that with that wonderful big hockey stick graph of the
0:21:43G.P.U.
0:21:44Power increase over the i Pad lifetime
0:21:47and the hilarious thing is that all these models that they're still selling the second dot on that graph that's them
0:21:54that's the i Pad that like they're still selling that today isn't the case.
0:22:00Developers can't do anything with their apps to basically not make it work on the five devices that is correct develop.
0:22:07Developers cannot exclude a five devices they just there's there's no there's no mechanism to developers use to hack
0:22:14around this by like they'd figure out like some hardware feature that was added like oh well this requires a virus
0:22:19scope didn't exist in like the i Phone three G.S. Really they would figure out ways like that.
0:22:24But there are no more of those ways that would exclude only the five devices
0:22:28and it's also against the rules to do that anyway.
0:22:30So if Apple caught you doing that like executing based on a harbor thing that you didn't really need to be excluding
0:22:35for they would then you for that.
0:22:37So there's really no way
0:22:39and it's such frickin avail pursue rely on this because not only do they have to either still support the eighty five
0:22:45devices which is a huge burden on any kind of modern graphics and you know modern stuff like that
0:22:50or they have to like say in the description which many of them do. Warning do not buy this if you have devices X. Y.
0:22:55and Z. and Then they will all the ones that are of use in angry people.
0:22:58You can respond if you don't know they are yeah right.
0:23:02Because nobody read the descriptions so you get like every single person who by
0:23:06and you know it sucks if it's paid up front then you can't refund it
0:23:09and like it's just it's a bad situation for for so many reasons this is why I like I think you know we know in the
0:23:17industry the idea of the strategy tax
0:23:19and strategy tax basically like you know some some part of a big tech company like their strategic needs are holding
0:23:28back some other part of the company.
0:23:29She teaches needs and you know when you look at Microsoft this is like you know Office and Windows fighting
0:23:36and having to like you know preserve windows everywhere holding back their mobile strategy and stuff like that.
0:23:41I think with Apple their their profit margins on their hardware and their
0:23:46and someone's someone deciding that they need to keep pushing devices lower and lower and keep them around longer
0:23:52and longer.
0:23:53That is the Apple strategy tax that we're seeing you know besides they're being massively overcommitted on on software
0:23:59needs.
0:24:00It doesn't doesn't have to be though because like a I think it's good for them to have a cheap product they're big
0:24:06they're big hang up
0:24:07and it's not like they don't fall out of their strategy of we need to be to forty nine for i Pad The problem is that
0:24:14with the exception I guess maybe of the i Phone five C.
0:24:17They just refuse to make a fresh low cost the vice they always just go with last years
0:24:23and it's like I've talked about this one times and when the five C.
0:24:26Was coming out that I thought they should do it and they kind of there were the five C.
0:24:28but Not quite like you can make a better product at that price point if you use modern technology like I know that you
0:24:35already have the factories up and going
0:24:36and now you've been making as I know there are economies of scale blah blah blah.
0:24:39But
0:24:40and I guess maybe it is MARTIN Like you said give up a little bit of margins make a new two hundred forty nine dollars
0:24:46device that you know has an A six or a seven it figure out a way to do that like start from scratch
0:24:52and make intentionally low cost a vise so save money where you can use it grab your camera so on and so forth
0:24:58but don't just say well we have this device and now we can make it for cheaper so done
0:25:02and done with just keep it around because things age out and that old hardware and like the old U.S.B. One U.S.B.
0:25:09Two examples on the P.C. Roll from ages ago eventually becomes more expensive to put U.S.B. One in your P.C.
0:25:15Because he was beat it was everywhere and you can even find U.S.B.
0:25:17One anymore and there's no real cause of that for i OS devices but just if you take a clean sheet
0:25:23and say with modern technology
0:25:25and modern prices on components can I hit that price point give up a little bit of margin just make a better product a
0:25:31better product because it gives a better impression to your customers maybe put a little more RAM
0:25:34and a better product with a mix of developers happy
0:25:36and just this this keeping around of the exact old product for years
0:25:40and years i Pod touch is just not it's not a good look at they say right well
0:25:46and it isn't it isn't just keeping around the old it's even the choices you get with the new so for instance the
0:25:52sixteen sixty four one twenty eight split where already went through that I mean they did it again
0:25:57but it's like what do we expect them to do they're not going to. Like that decision was made you know a year ago.
0:26:02Well and the reason they made that decision was not so they could make an extra three dollars on the sixteen gig
0:26:09but not put in a third to get chip in and is trying to push you up to the middle model right.
0:26:12Exactly see this is they did some
0:26:14and they did an amazing trick with the new i Phone pricing they have managed to increase their afterlife the average
0:26:19selling price by like two hundred dollars.
0:26:22Because so you figure like so many people would have been OK with thirty two if thirty two was the new baseline.
0:26:29Most people would have bought just the baseline that's why I don't know this plan is going to work about do you think
0:26:34it's going to work do you think it's going to push people up I know that's that seems like it's the aim it's a typical
0:26:38anchoring thing we try to push people out
0:26:39but I just wonder if people are going to be like I don't I don't know how how flexible people are to go after the
0:26:45people who buy the bottom out to be even know they know how much storage they're using to the no sixteen of what they
0:26:51know how many of whatever those sixteen things are that they're currently using.
0:26:54I suspect most i Phone owners have run out of space before so that I think like people buying their very first i Phone
0:27:01might not be fooled might be might be devoted to getting a sixteen but I think people who are buying their second
0:27:07or third
0:27:07or fourth i Phone are going to be way more likely to go for a bigger size than the base model because they probably
0:27:12face a storage issue before if only upgrade I was there right. Yeah exactly.
0:27:18And so so here's the thing like by by continuing to sell these small devices.
0:27:21Oh
0:27:21and the other half of that is so they have that they have this sixteen sixty four thing so that you know if they're going
0:27:29to thirty was the baseline everybody would just buy a thirty two.
0:27:32They have kind of pushed a lot of people to go to market and to raise their average selling price that way.
0:27:37Also keep in mind the i Phone six plus is one hundred dollars more and they're selling a lot of those as well.
0:27:44So this entire entire pricing of the i Phone line is I think very carefully designed to push that average selling price
0:27:52upwards and if you look at the new i Pad lineup you can see that you know when when the when the first mini came out.
0:28:00That's certainly pushed the average selling price down.
0:28:03Where And I don't think it has come back up to where used to be even now.
0:28:06But if you look at the line of so you have the old crappy i Pad Mini at two fifty nine wasn't it.
0:28:12Was it to eighty before was is that roughly the same price to sixteen
0:28:16and I remember some like that Retina i Pad is now three hundred instead of four hundred.
0:28:23The i Pad Mini three which is just the retina mini but now also available in gold and with Touch ID no other changes.
0:28:32GOLD GOLD option and Touch ID one hundred dollars more and then you have the i Pad Air the
0:28:39or the old one which is still for sale at four hundred also
0:28:43and then the i Pad Air two actually a substantial upgrade for five hundred dollars the original price of
0:28:49and for that i Pad all of this and of course the same six hundred sixty four and most of the models.
0:28:55So all of this is clearly made to push people up the line and this is very carefully designed for upselling.
0:29:04It's very obvious like Apple's whole product line.
0:29:06Like if you look at their pricing intervals they're very very carefully spaced out so that there's always something
0:29:12else that you can that you
0:29:13or a sales force you can talk yourself into to go like I'll get one of the mortgage for this I can tell you the
0:29:18absolute most you can spend
0:29:20and that is on one side of Apple the hardware profit margins side of it where they need to maximize that.
0:29:28Then you look at what it does to developers.
0:29:31Now developers first of all have to write to all these old C.P.U.'s forever.
0:29:35Keep in mind not only is that affecting all of us who Apple could kind of not care less about you know if if life is a
0:29:41little bit harder for third party developers and somewhere like this.
0:29:43Apple doesn't care that much
0:29:45but Apple itself is one of the biggest I was developers if not the biggest I was developer
0:29:51and so Apple has to deal with this too.
0:29:53When they are making all of their built in apps
0:29:56when they are doing all of their own development to develop development the O.S.'s.
0:30:00What the O S can even do Apple is restricted by their own hardware margin needs on their development side
0:30:08and that that affects a lot of things. It also affects the whole the whole problem with.
0:30:14I was eight of grades
0:30:15and the very likely cause of it being a disk space issue that occurred in the Iowa state requires almost five gigs of
0:30:22free space and Apple has been selling eight and sixteen gig devices in Mass for a long time
0:30:29and there's the percentage of people who who can't do it over and yes I know you can play and i Tunes
0:30:36but no one knows that no one does that the amount of people who have an Iowa seven device
0:30:41and would upgrade except they don't have five gigs a free space is substantial
0:30:46and so even that that's the result of previous years.
0:30:50Apple skimping on memory to say two to boost their margins and drive people to hire models.
0:30:55Now that is affecting them this year that's affecting the development teams and so this is all related.
0:30:59This is why it's a clear strategy tax like the hardware margin side of Apple is restricting
0:31:07and causing problems for the software side of Apple and the developer side.
0:31:12If Apple you know I think for the most part I agree with what you said.
0:31:16One thing I take a little bit of issue with though is is your thought that a lot of regular people would get not the
0:31:24baseline phone not at the sixteen gig phone
0:31:28and I think in the same way like you just said that not a lot of people realize where you can plug in Titans
0:31:33and fix all these problems to do the I would say to upgrade.
0:31:35I don't think a lot of people really get into the intricacies of which I found to buy
0:31:41and I haven't like interrogated my co-workers
0:31:45but certainly I've worked around the office over the last year as the five C. Became a thing as the five S.
0:31:51Was the thing and now it's the six and six plus earthing. I believe one of my coworkers got the exact same phone I did.
0:32:00The six with sixty four gigs. Another one just got a six and because she is still on a family plan with her family.
0:32:07Apparently her parents just went
0:32:09and picked up a phone for she didn't even know what capacity it was now this is just one example
0:32:13but it's an indicative example Additionally there have been a handful of people that have shown up with five Cs now I
0:32:21can think of any developers that have. But Manson has one now yeah that's true. I just met my office but yeah.
0:32:27But either way these are typically like project managers or H.R.
0:32:30People and a lot of them of ended up with five Cs
0:32:33and these are people who work in in an environment a developing company and we do software consulting and yeah
0:32:39and so if there was a quote unquote regular person that would understand why you would want a bigger phone these are
0:32:46the people that that would do that but they don't get them and I wonder I haven't again I've been asked
0:32:51but I wonder if maybe it's because you know it's hard to justify getting a hundred or two hundred or three hundred
0:32:57or seven hundred dollar i Phone over this equally pretty looking Android phone that's like either free
0:33:05or a hundred bucks or whatever the case may be.
0:33:08And Heck now that I'm thinking of it pretty much Erin's entire family is all on Android.
0:33:14Generally speaking not exclusively
0:33:16but generally speaking because those phones were considerably cheaper than i Phones
0:33:20and i think that plays a much bigger role for your average consumer.
0:33:25That being said I agree with you that if somebody would have wanted to upgrade at all
0:33:31or was at all privy to the fact that sixteen Gates is not a lot they are absolutely without a shadow of a doubt going
0:33:37to get a sixty four gigs on. But the five C.
0:33:39Is pretty awesome though like in terms of like not entirely know what's wrong with it right
0:33:43but I think they come in colors which is just huge
0:33:46and it's really comfortable like there is a man we got one I assume is because it's just nicer to hold like it if they
0:33:51had made for example a new low end i Pad Mini plastic color back a six or a seven. As that of an A five.
0:34:01Same price point that would just be a better product all around.
0:34:05Right because like you can't underestimate the attractiveness if you if you don't make it incredibly crippled by Give
0:34:11it a gigabyte or something five C. You know that plastic is durable it's attractive it's comfortable it's cheap.
0:34:19If you're going to give a little i Pad to a kid comes in colors these are all big selling points that are right there
0:34:25right in front of Apple for it to grab and because the five C. Didn't do as well as they hoped.
0:34:30As far as we can tell like it was hobbled by other reasons by the fact that it was alongside the much more desirable
0:34:36five S.
0:34:36That a gamer and so's always the big guy and Miles going
0:34:40and they kind of crippled it by you know giving it not so great specs
0:34:44and not really improving it it was just like the five in a different case maybe with a slightly bigger battery.
0:34:49I just wish they would make dedicated products for lower price points instead of just having this cascade
0:34:56and the thing with the the storage the RAM like Pick any speculate that we complain about all the time.
0:35:03This is been sure about Paul for so long for you know since the ninety's since even before Steve Jobs came back Apple
0:35:10as a company will get it into its head that like some number is the correct number for some spec where there is going
0:35:17to be like every machine has four megabytes of RAM like I'm going way back here
0:35:21and four megabytes a ram it will be fine and then the next year the bottom line all four megabytes of RAM
0:35:27and you'll be looking around go everyone else doesn't have four mags of them in the next year will come in the bottom
0:35:31line for my right to ram you like OK Is Apple not looking at the rest of the world.
0:35:35Nobody ships four megabytes of RAM and
0:35:36when I go through this intel intelligence seems insane you're like Surely this year the longer they don't then finally
0:35:42they bump it
0:35:42and it's been that way you know with Apple's actually in a good cycle of the RAM Now they're not really skimping there
0:35:47they find on the average of the sixteen but now it's a flash story.
0:35:51Someone got into their head that you know sixteen gigs is perfectly good for the low end model
0:35:56but to keep doing that year after year after year sixteen sixteen sixteen the rest of the.
0:36:00World it's like you kidding now. First well they are.
0:36:02Sims lots and everywhere on earth speak our thoughts
0:36:05and something else out of the fence so at the very least those people buy something just buy some cheap
0:36:09and probably slow and probably grabbing whatever complain about your S.D. Cards at least they have to buy a faster S.D.
0:36:15Card they want to spend the money they have the option to lease upgraded Apple things are completely sealed up
0:36:19and they just keep going sixteen
0:36:21and so now we're in like the tail end of the sixteenth cycle where it's just it's crazy that they're doing
0:36:25and this is just it's hurting everybody
0:36:27and if you want to pick out something to blame on the stereotypical Tim Cook you know character attributes the fact
0:36:34that he's a operations guy and was like you know make all the numbers add up on the columns
0:36:40and you know make sure that you're getting the best price for the best parts and the most efficiencies and everything.
0:36:48This would be something you could blame on that instinct whether it's him
0:36:51or not whether it's other people just like because again those type of things that are novel for a really long time
0:36:56and haven't received jobs before Steve Jobs came back
0:36:59but it is exactly in line with his you know sort of his expertise at keeping costs down
0:37:07and profits proper margins high.
0:37:09But it's I think it's over the line
0:37:11and so it's really it's like Marko said it's hard starting Apple tarting customers it's not a good call.
0:37:17Yeah and it isn't again like it isn't sixteen is not the minimum sixteen is the lowest that they you
0:37:22and they do a new device that they still say they will sold by says with eight still.
0:37:26Now now that I'm home I like the flagship product if you can get the flagship product with sixteen
0:37:30and you get their flagship probably sixteen last year
0:37:32and you get a flood like you know the world moves on prices go down like it's just you just hurting yourself.
0:37:39Yeah
0:37:39and it has to impact Tim's customer set you have to imagine that you know the experience of using a memory constrained
0:37:49mac or a space constraint eyeless device that it is a worse experience.
0:37:54It has to be causing increased look at the Genius Bar. It is definitely causing worse experiences.
0:38:00People to have worse opinions of their Apple products when they weren't like constant disk space is used up like that.
0:38:05Is affected another way that that's where I think this is long term I think it's a bad move
0:38:10but I think the learn from the so they didn't even know it for a couple weeks now.
0:38:13We didn't talk about the Iowa state adoption until they had to have.
0:38:16And speaking of this presentation and we kind of wandered off from there.
0:38:19They had the slide up of that old look at Iowa State adoption
0:38:22and to make the typical super impressive slide they had to combine Iowa State
0:38:26and Iowa seven you know to me like to that specific a show a big number because Iowa state adoption is slower
0:38:33and agrarian and the decision to go with the sixteenth was probably made a year or two ago.
0:38:37Like the ancient history now
0:38:38but the one ramification that I think ABOL can clearly see is I was a wrestler as it is because of the bugs.
0:38:46Part of it's because of the bug stories part of it.
0:38:48Like in their big meeting where they talk about why does Iowa say that often slow.
0:38:51One of the points that has to come up is the storage thing
0:38:54and one solution is that we need a smarter install it takes a bus route
0:38:56but the other solution stops shipping sixteen gigs as a low end storage size for years and years.
0:39:02So hopefully Apple being a learning machine that we think it is will come out of this
0:39:07and say we have made a misjudgement or planning for the i Phone eight.
0:39:11We need to not be ridiculous with the well with the flash sizes.
0:39:18All right so we what we wandered off a bit but let's let's get a summary of the.
0:39:22I've had many and I've had many whatever
0:39:24and then let's talk i Pad errors so it seems clear to me that unless you are in dire need of Touch ID on all your
0:39:33devices I see no point in spending an extra hundred dollars in getting an i Pad Mini three I just I disagree with that.
0:39:43I know the pricing is ridiculous. I know that is a ridiculous premium for you know for what for.
0:39:48Like if you want to look at how much of the cost of a Touch I.D.
0:39:51Sensor better
0:39:51but it's just it's no more ridiculous than paying extra hundred dollars for an extra sixteen gigs of flash.
0:39:55In terms of like the physics and the cost of materials that thing is. Likely is ridiculous right.
0:40:01But Touch ID is a tangible benefit.
0:40:04Once you have a device with such ID you don't want one without it
0:40:07and having a mixed household with some touch Aramis makes personal repertoire of devices that mostly have Touch ID But
0:40:13then the i Pad doesn't this is this is a case where I think much more so than the storage they are charging one hundred
0:40:20dollars for a benefit that they think is worth one hundred dollars to some people
0:40:24and I think they're closer to being right that this benefit is where the hundred dollars that an extra sixty mg of
0:40:28lateral well and they also had to overcome the problem they introduced last year when the i Pad Air
0:40:34and retina mini came out which was that the retina air and the many of the air supposed to the higher end device
0:40:41but they were very very similar because they both had the A seven they said they will have you know the same system on
0:40:47chip.
0:40:48There was something like five percent faster but otherwise you know it's minimal
0:40:52and so the the many became just as high end of a device as the air did that that was the fluke last year where suddenly
0:41:00the mini became Hyatt so that last year's many was it was a good deal relatively speaking.
0:41:05Exactly and so this year they basically upgraded the air and not the mini to create that gap again.
0:41:11Again it's all about E.S.P.
0:41:13It's all the cameras on press like they want to push people who want the best to not say well the i Pad Maybe it's just
0:41:19as good and it's smaller so I want that it's cheaper.
0:41:22Now if you want the best Apple wants you to go all the way to the top of the line and spend that money.
0:41:28But that profit margin I can't blame them and that's business like that's saying they're evil for doing this.
0:41:33I mean something like I think of the many with it with Touch ID Whatever the whole number that is three.
0:41:38Not a bit is not a bad product like relatively speaking like they did have this tiny thing and they
0:41:43and their the price that's true
0:41:45but at least this one gives you like a real tangible benefit like that that's what they're charged money for
0:41:51essentially at something you can I think it's something that people appreciate more this now where the hundred dollars
0:41:58obvious like here's will do.
0:42:00If you were talking to somebody
0:42:01and they were trying to decide which i Pad Mini they should get you business go right for the budget.
0:42:05Can you afford an extra hundred bucks to have a such thing as a like.
0:42:08Well look neat but I don't know that you know obviously you go for the cheaper model like it all comes
0:42:12but if you happen to have one hundred dollars here or there is not going to break the bank
0:42:16and they're willing to spend that amount of money I'm not going to say even though you can afford it even though you've
0:42:20got the money in your pocket right now to buy the one you shouldn't because it's not worth it to give the Touch ID
0:42:25center is now over the hundred dollars Well neither is sixteen gigs of RAM but quest
0:42:29but you tell people do it anyways like it would just make your life easier
0:42:32and if you can afford it then then go for it.
0:42:35OK so I can get behind that assessment the reason though that I that I'm having and hawing about
0:42:39or I guess even saying no is it for me
0:42:42and I love my i Pad Mini to think about that really hard I love my i Pad Mini two and it is not a touch I.D.
0:42:50And honestly the only time I really miss Touch ID isn't when I'm unlocking the device but is instead
0:42:55when I'm using one password because I have a reasonably long password in typing that constantly is a real pain in the
0:43:03butt and so I agree with what you said that hey if you can afford one hundred dollars.
0:43:07Heck yes absolutely go ahead and spend it but to me I don't view it as a do
0:43:13or die feature like say a retina screen was going to use your many if you using kind of like a phablet where you're
0:43:20carrying it around with you then like because you know for the a locking unlocking obviously with a phone you do it all
0:43:25the time you want to have the best that you want to have the security.
0:43:28But if your i Pad never leaves your house maybe you don't even need unlocked
0:43:32and then it comes down to like Touch ID which I was going to get for like you know I was a son they make Touch I.D.
0:43:36A much more useful thing that I was with i OS seven because now you know one password
0:43:41and even if you never leave your house or that can be useful to someone on Twitter just mentioned that
0:43:46and a lot of people have brought this up I think I thought
0:43:48and then fireballs well like Well Apple is you know is using such a huge portion of the world's whatever it is whether
0:43:56it's the flash memory or RAM or whatever and that's why you know that i Phone six.
0:44:00Only has one gig of RAM or that's why they only put sixteen gigs of Flash or whatever and I think that's mostly B.S.
0:44:06A because supply and demand are in a relationship with each other. Apple plans years and years ahead.
0:44:11They pay for the capacity they need.
0:44:13They pay for people to you know build factories to add to it like if you can if you someone is there to buy it.
0:44:21Some you know like it will work it out as economic
0:44:25and like well there's only so I got you know someone's picking coke
0:44:27and I thought well we're going to be can't plant anymore. Like every man there's a demand someone will.
0:44:36Some frogs supply and Apple in this case
0:44:39and in all cases is so willing to sink huge amounts of capital up front to get the capacity to manufacture whatever is
0:44:45the need at the volumes they need so I don't believe that supplies the product as far as I know there is no like
0:44:51natural resource or climate related issue
0:44:54or whatever that is like capping the amount of available you know NAND capacity in the world other then the thing is
0:45:01capping in is how what the orders were put in you know two three or four years ago
0:45:06or whenever the current about you know I mean like there's a lead time and everything
0:45:09but there are inputs into the system Apple is such a huge input that if you wanted to plan for say you know three years
0:45:16from now all of our devices are going to have double the flash RAM they would start spending the money now chump on
0:45:22their balance sheet
0:45:22and then she gets a blow be there for them so I still feel like this is a decision Apple makes about what they want
0:45:28it's not like Well we'd love to put more flash in there
0:45:30but we just do this just not available for us that's the copout.
0:45:35You know Mark I want to tell us about something else that's really cool.
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0:48:18Right so we should probably talk about the i Pad air too.
0:48:22And as someone who converted from a large i Pad to a mini i Pad To be honest I didn't find this that terribly exciting.
0:48:32However the thing I thought most interesting are the two things I thought most interesting were the loss of the
0:48:40rotation lock or I guess it could also be an oops which
0:48:43and the apple sandwich wasn't even brought up during the keynote and I actually think that's the most intriguing to me.
0:48:50As it turns out I've talked about a lot in the past the I have a T.
0:48:53Mobile Sam for my i Pad Mini two and it's actually came with a virus and Sam and I flipped the Sims back
0:49:02and forth on a surprising regular basis for a device that I very rarely pay for solar data on
0:49:08and I I really like being able to do that now unfortunately in this case Verizon isn't part of this Apple sim agreement
0:49:16and it is fairly U.S. Centric I think what is it. Either that has it in the U.K. I believe it's pronounced easy.
0:49:23So yes so he has it in you dot co dot uk but anyways so.
0:49:28However I think it's a clever clever clever idea
0:49:31and I really like the idea of it just as much as I dislike the idea of losing the rotation lock because I use that
0:49:39constantly on my i Pad and i could say glad everyone agrees.
0:49:46I honestly I hardly ever use my pet anymore so I have no opinion of this at all.
0:49:50Like I am not going to get any of these then. But I see I see why people like the i Pad but I don't.
0:49:56So John by the way. The big one.
0:50:00I'm due to replace my i Pad three eventually is not really I have so many other issues the hardware issues that I'm
0:50:07going to get one. But yeah like most good you know talked and past like about Apple being.
0:50:16I'm more convinced than ever that bill is tied to numbers for you things like battery life I want to make it a
0:50:22millimeter thing give me more battery life.
0:50:24It's like they have a target battery life and they want to be thinner
0:50:28and if they can reach the target battery life while also making it thinner and that's what they do
0:50:32and that's that is basically their very simple rule set so what's the target battery life for an i Pad ten hours can
0:50:37hit ten hours and make it then yes we can. Done like I don't think is a lot of hemming and hawing.
0:50:42Well we can get twelve hours of it make it if we give the sense that there's no the rule is hit the target.
0:50:48Make it thinner. Can you do both you can good good job on this is all around. So ten hours I guess is fine.
0:50:55I can't even imagine how thin that thing is going to be i Pad three to go to the store
0:51:00and try to touch them I'm still kind of annoyed by you know the i Pad air's border being thin air because I always feel
0:51:08it's one of the reasons I hate the many I hate thumb rejection crap
0:51:12and I always feel like my thing I know it's like I can't get a secure grip I was actually touching the screen
0:51:17and they made the borders thinner with the air and they're still thinner
0:51:20and I just I think it will make the device a little less comfortable for me but anyway eventually I'll get one.
0:51:24It's going to be some way faster than my i Pad three screens better lower glare thumbs up until they're going to get
0:51:30one and less
0:51:31and less by the time I buy one they make they introduce an i Pad approach something right so quick follow on question
0:51:37to that. Do you know if you will get another L T E.
0:51:41I Pad And does that relate to whether or not you're going to be getting an i Phone I will get another L.T.
0:51:47You want all my i Pads of have been cellular and I use that capacity
0:51:51and I like it so yes I will pay whatever the insane ridiculous prices that they charge a super duper top of the line L
0:51:57T I guess the reason you know keep his i Pad three.
0:52:00I paid I can remember a lot of Edgar because a lot nine hundred dollars
0:52:03or whatever it was it was like a computer is worth and so I get my money's worth out of it
0:52:06but yeah I always buy with cellular because I really want to vacation like a Basically I don't bring computers on
0:52:11vacation I bring you know cellular i Pad.
0:52:14Yeah this is my first son arrived by my third i Pad but I first saw you were one
0:52:18and I always thought people were crazy when they said oh get the cellular one
0:52:22but oh my goodness I'm so glad I did now part of that probably relates to me not being able to tether to my phone
0:52:28because I'm still grandfathered on the eighteenth tee unlimited plan.
0:52:31But but I still love having you know the i Pad and I suspect even if I could tether I would still get one right.
0:52:39Anything else on the i Pad hardware I don't think I mean they did spend a lot of time in the presentation kind of
0:52:45overdoing the thin thing you know
0:52:48but again I think that is kind of their big marketing point for the i Pad Air too because there are not that many more
0:52:55changes that would be very marketable to a mass audience.
0:52:58Yeah
0:52:58and I don't I don't oppose that strategy to that post a hypothetical while back about the thinness thing like it's a
0:53:04reasonable strategy but it's just it's so clear now that like I mean
0:53:07and I think it's so much more reasonable to the i Pad than the phone.
0:53:09Even they like the i Pad battery life no one is like mine full size i Pad a constant running out of battery like ten
0:53:16hours is a reasonable target head and it's an honest ten hours and it's fine.
0:53:20You know where is the i Phone they like go where you know the i Phone battery life is so incredibly variable like if
0:53:26you're an area with a low signal the thing is constantly searching and everything just kills your battery life
0:53:30and then you did not want to be stranded without a phone whereas the i Pad ten hours has real solid ten hours.
0:53:37You're not using it as your lifeline to communicate with people
0:53:39and it's probably fine so I actually approve of the strategy is just that like every time they bring about how are
0:53:45things keep reemphasizing it it's so clear that's what their requirements are.
0:53:49You know the other thing I want to briefly mention before we give Marco his two hours in the sun to talk about new
0:53:57computer did you guys feel like. Schiller was phoning it in or was it just me.
0:54:02You know other people said that I rewash I don't think I was in there I mean she was always a little bit low key like I
0:54:07don't want it like that
0:54:08but sure it's not I think that I think he was he was the way he always is I mean I felt like he was he's always reserve
0:54:16you're absolutely right about that
0:54:17but I felt like he was a little kind of going through the motions sometimes he seems distracted because it's like I
0:54:23don't know what he's distracted by you you think you'd be distracted by fear of Steve Jobs later I was off stage
0:54:28staring at the back of his head if you doing something wrong
0:54:30but tim is off on a cup of coffee probably sell for enough.
0:54:35Let's knock out one more sponsor and then let's have Marco go on for two hours. That sounds great.
0:54:43I'm not sure it sounds great.
0:54:44Honestly I'm probably not going to go
0:54:46and I don't know that much about anyway I'm Ira view to get to exactly so our last sponsor is a glue Lou is an Internet.
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0:58:00Once you are sure once again they've been a long time friend and supporter of our show.
0:58:03So I completely forgot I asked you John in the new effectively dodged.
0:58:08There was no i Pod Touch at this event we have no indication that an i Pod touch is coming
0:58:13but oh yeah I thought exist so yeah the i Pod still thing so what is your plan with regard to smaller than i Pad mobile
0:58:21devices from here on out.
0:58:24Yeah probably in the i Phone I've had a bit alone
0:58:27or i Phone for a little while for someone because they took a lot of the functionality like the phone integration with
0:58:34Yosemite they took that out of the eye with a builder out there so if you want to test it with if you had I was a G.M.
0:58:42and You couldn't do it use a lot of these features you needed a point one So they sent me
0:58:45and i Phone six with a point one and I was using that
0:58:50and I soon as I got it I've been using it as my main actual phone so it's giving me a feel for what is going to be like
0:58:57you know like I said I'll probably eventually I want to know about what choice do I have.
0:59:00There's nothing to know enough for me to get and I'm going to I'm not I can't use that I buy that anymore
0:59:04and I know you went through all the stuff with your i Phone Sex A while ago as one thing that I would add into the mix
0:59:10of all things you talked about about the screen size
0:59:12and all that stuff is the thing that surprised me I was even after hearing all your issues with the i Phone Sex was how
0:59:18much heavier it feel them and i Pod Touch. I know it is heavier. I don't know how much heavier it is.
0:59:24Can't be that much every minute both really like devices but
0:59:26and I think my our size a factor here is well some super sensitive to changes in effort required from like you know
0:59:32fingers and stuff like that. But boy I just feel like a brick no case I've been using it with no case and I've had it.
0:59:38It just feels so damn heavy. But they have nothing and I have to get one.
0:59:44I wonder if maybe Honestly maybe if you get a five S I hate that thing.
0:59:52Wow What do you feel like the i Phone has demonstrably changed the way you go.
1:00:00Your day and I'm not patronizing you I'm honestly asking because when I got my three G.S.
1:00:04Which admittedly was a kind of different time it dramatically changed everything because if I didn't know where
1:00:09something was I could look at a map on my phone if I didn't know something's phone number I could look it up like what
1:00:14did you keep calling in the keynote lines your information phone or when I heard his yeah
1:00:19and so having an information phone just completely changed my world do you find that that's the case
1:00:25or do you find like it's whatever now.
1:00:27Well you know so I've had a surrogate information phone like OK how am I going to hurt my wife I have her look things
1:00:33up on her information phone we use her phone for navigation in the car where you know like so I've had that for a while
1:00:39and if we're if we're somewhere
1:00:40and we're just waiting around a word board to let me use her phone to read Twitter like her her Twitter her thing I
1:00:45signed into my account and have a Twitter account she just reads my Twitter so I read my Twitter on her phone
1:00:50and so having this on a how about this they are weaker.
1:00:54Long enough I think it only been maybe three times when I've used it in that capacity once was
1:00:59when I was dropping my kids off one of their activities on the day the A seven year view was published
1:01:04and I want to catch up. One hundred not fall farther behind on my Twitter.
1:01:07So while I was like in the waiting area dropping off and picking them up and stuff
1:01:12and then this place doesn't have a wife I have some of the bacteria why I find that a lot of the factories do have wife
1:01:17eyes I haven't used my appetites but they're like oh I can.
1:01:20Things I have my phone with me in the car right over to us in the podcast I can use it to read Twitter while I wait
1:01:27and wait for the kids to go right and once at a dinner with some friends I look at something on
1:01:31and buy it if I hadn't I could my wife is there too I could've had her look something up on it as well.
1:01:36That's about it I mean like it's also have done before it's not is not of mind blowing in your experience because you
1:01:40were like I was never able to do this before and now I'm able to write Whereas now if I could find a more convenient.
1:01:45I'm mostly most of experience to me is getting coming to grips with this just gigantic divide
1:01:51and that's not even that big but like this big heavy device
1:01:54and the weirdness of how it feels in the case listen this is a thing to his I guess I've always had cases.
1:02:00My small wireless devices I will have a case on one that I'm using this on without a case just because we're going to
1:02:04buy a case for a loan or it would be silly
1:02:07but I really love touch idea I'm such a total convert on Touch ID Oh it's the back using on my wife's firey feel my
1:02:12fingers are on her for anyway but having it on your own device like I never had a lock on my i Pod Touch
1:02:18and I put a lock on this isn't as I got it and it's just it's amazing. So yeah I'll probably get i Phone six.
1:02:25Why don't you buy a case.
1:02:27Now you can return it within fourteen days if you've decided after that point that you will not own i Phone six.
1:02:33Well I am probably going to get one as a matter of just getting everything out of the way
1:02:36and going you know going through the whole thing
1:02:39and getting my number ported over from my old crappy phone that's going to be a hassle to get as you know whenever I
1:02:45don't need to go I want to see where the cases are like I don't know which one I want yet so I'll get it sorted out.
1:02:51You want you have a letter
1:02:51when you have you have to use your information Pod at all since you had the information from all I've I've been
1:02:59attentional you avoiding because I don't want to switch back
1:03:02and forth I just want to say I know this that you got to use the big one is only like I think one
1:03:06or two times it once I needed to use the Google authenticator app which can only vent like one of your I was devices
1:03:12I'm crazy rule or whatever because I didn't want to slow down.
1:03:14You're not using off the noise of the ones I've using I think you should be easing off
1:03:19but any military on what's better about it you can have it on more than one device I think that it may be optional he
1:03:25pushed some of the stuff server side which you may take issue with but but I really like it
1:03:31and it's much prettier than the Google one was as of a year ago I haven't looked back since then so I had to use it
1:03:36once for that and then I had to pick it up once for something else related to ebook testing because
1:03:41when you load it up by books on the i Phone six.
1:03:44It's like I have my my media queries treated differently for for sizing so I need an actual five portrait style things
1:03:53I need to test that I briefly but the most
1:03:55but I've been trying that's the ticket I want to be like immerse myself in the section
1:03:58and go back to the my little thing. Feel feel anough right. So sorry for the quick aside I just wanted to find out.
1:04:05So going to be shorter. Yeah it's going to super short show.
1:04:09So before we get to the review which is what everyone's actually waiting for.
1:04:13Marco why don't you tell me about your computer that you're going to get that I'm so enthusiastic about.
1:04:19Brett and I haven't and I'm getting it.
1:04:22Well actually it was pretty quick and that makes me want to be asked like is there any you know I'll tell you
1:04:26but I think there anything is anything you have to add because you have been
1:04:30and I've seen you have seen Sean blank I've seen Jason Snell all hemming
1:04:35and hawing about lotion I get the upgrade for there should I not get the upgrade for that is there anything you'd like
1:04:40to add about your strategy like what did you and did you order yet and if so what did you end up ordering I have.
1:04:46I've mostly ordered through ordering through the business rep for the local Apple store because you know getting a
1:04:52couple hundred bucks off the big reason is that because it's being used for primarily software development in the state
1:04:58of New York it is tax free so that saves a few hundred more dollars So the total savings are some like five hundred
1:05:04bucks doing it this way or even more actually. So anyway yeah I got it.
1:05:09Decked out top of the line everything because it basically is as good as the macro
1:05:15or better for almost everything I do with you want to have you know of Hendrick video encodes it is fifteen percent
1:05:21slower. However for everything else it's twenty five percent faster.
1:05:26So it's like anything single threaded it's actually substantially faster.
1:05:31You know this is definitely wasteful I'm going to lose probably as much as I'm saving on the sales tax
1:05:37and I'm going to lose that in value when I resell my current macro but I said when I
1:05:43when I was buying this macro almost a year ago I said
1:05:49when desktop retina is possible I will do whatever it takes to get it
1:05:52and that's how important is to me a lot of people it isn't that important of them and that's fun
1:05:56or a lot of people will like it but there.
1:06:00All in to wait until they buy the next computer two or three years from now that's fine.
1:06:04A lot of people are like Syracuse and won't buy a generation one Apple product and there are some benefits to that.
1:06:09When you talk about I buy the above the very first power Mikey five hundred the highest end model recently wrote was I
1:06:19guess about the first generation to generation I have a specific C.P.U. In it and that is until they're all there.
1:06:25Every every apple compilers of the house I bought the top of the line below I G three
1:06:30when it came out so I have no problem buying the fresh air isn't top of the line thing.
1:06:35I mean I'm wary about like everybody else but it's not like I have a religion against it.
1:06:39Well anyway so I said I would do whatever it takes to to get right on the desktop because it is that important to me.
1:06:48I thought when I bought this MacPro that it would that it would be able to drive a retina monitor
1:06:55and it can drive four K. Monitors and you can get the Dell twenty four inch four K.
1:07:01Monitor and have it be roughly the right D.P.I. To do true two X.
1:07:07You can do all those things with it but it's it's not great.
1:07:12You've discovered Dell monitors which themselves are not amazing and also from what I hear very buggy
1:07:18and inconsistent in this usage.
1:07:21You can do it with the macro
1:07:23but what I really wanted was a giant twenty seven to thirty inch monitor like that that size class and four K.
1:07:31To do that is either.
1:07:32Everything is too big or you do software rendering and in an artificial scaling and that reduces quality
1:07:39and you might not notice it. You know I don't think you'd notice it on a five K.
1:07:43Panel if you if you simulate a different mode on a four K.
1:07:47Panel at twenty seven inches you might notice that we talked of this before so Mike and I are further into it anyway.
1:07:52I was assuming the five K. Monitor was not going to be just for the next couple of years. That turned out to be wrong.
1:07:59I was also assuming. Any retina.
1:08:00Any guess I brought in a monitor I would want would be available in some kind of extra form factor
1:08:05and that would plug into my mac pro with no problems and it would work just fine. That has been wrong so far.
1:08:11There is the Dell five K. One coming out this winter that might do it but we don't know yet. And the Dell four K.
1:08:20Ones had some issues for a while with with running on certain computers in the MacPro various things like enabling the
1:08:26M.S.T.
1:08:27Thing it's complicated the way it works is kind of a hack five K.'s even more of a hack because it needs even more
1:08:32bandwidth has to use two different thunderbolt or Display Port cables and the G.P.U.
1:08:37Has to be able to properly multiplex those together into one signal for one panel
1:08:43and it's there's enough moving parts or things that are kind of on the edge of standards
1:08:48or not very well supported standards.
1:08:50There's enough moving parts here that I think the chances of the Delphi key panel working without weird issues on a
1:08:57macro are low so that this can't this came out and the combination of both five K.
1:09:04Being available when I thought it wouldn't be for years. Plus the much faster C.P.U.
1:09:09Speed for single threaded use which is what I usually limited by that push me over the edge where I really did not
1:09:18expect to buy a macro and then want to sell it ten months later. But that's what's happening. Fun.
1:09:26Well that was actually what was painful than I thought.
1:09:28Yeah I mean honestly it's what what's most interesting about it is how relatively boring it is.
1:09:36Like there's no like weird tricks to how this exists.
1:09:41Well it's kind of weird too to Display Port connections inside this thing
1:09:45and it's it's weird enough that I'm glad that you're going to take one for the team
1:09:49but I had to find out what are the weird issues
1:09:52and I'm I'm excited by the fact that the total power reduction which means that it's you know there's other technology
1:09:58involved with the screen.
1:10:00Yeah I know what they're doing to get the power reduction and other details over
1:10:02but at least it means it's not going to be like like the water cools picking up our mighty fires like the war just like
1:10:08at the hairy edge of what's possible.
1:10:10But it is kind of there it was possible just not in terms of power and he seems like they've got that more
1:10:15or less under control
1:10:16but I really just don't know what it's going to be like for you know for to stay today used for gaming for anything
1:10:22like that so I really need you know I would never buy one of these sight unseen.
1:10:27You'll probably be OK considering the amount of time something spends in your house is low because something new
1:10:31and shiny comes along with the new one
1:10:34but for considering I'm sitting here next to you Thousand a mac pro I really want to know what I'm getting before I get
1:10:39it
1:10:39and you know my recent not so great experience with a thunderbolt display which is bought relatively early in the life
1:10:45of that product
1:10:45or not you know sight unseen I had seen before like I just I'd like to be able to sort this out so you'll tell me all
1:10:51about it when you get one. Oh yeah definitely and you know I see a lot of my friends on Twitter.
1:10:57Gruber said he ordered one and he wanted to be like every ten years
1:11:00or that if I were we were all waiting for just I've read them it would have been talking about the whole life the show
1:11:04Marco and I like you know much to be just need a machine they can run to stop reading and we hope to be the MacPro
1:11:08and it wasn't but you Marc about want to know anyway.
1:11:10Marco
1:11:11but like everyone although not all the nerds in our circle are like totally agree with using I think the twenty into
1:11:18version of the screen that I have in front of me the aluminum display with a white plastic things on the side
1:11:23and I have the twenty three
1:11:24and she had the twenty inch one the connectors like he's just he's been staring at ancient technologies I was going to
1:11:30you know he's going to have the world's biggest upgrade in terms of what he's looking at all day
1:11:34and those are the best kind of upgrades vicious like likely go the i Phone four like wow I know this is a whole other
1:11:39world or anywhere.
1:11:41So in John you're definitely looking to upgrade your MacPro in this is definitely at least in the running it's all
1:11:49running like I talk about before we started recording
1:11:53or live anyway that every time I pour mac pro is a super slow because of the spinning discs and everything.
1:12:00I almost by necessity so many times I'm on Amazon page and like Oman like pricing things out
1:12:05and getting you know looking at the reports I was almost because I got a sense that you would seriously extend the life
1:12:11of this machine because I have a very similar machine one year new where I work that saw S.S.D.
1:12:16and It's fine like
1:12:18but my own home on a so painful like once you get in this is either now that expensive I said No no what I should do is
1:12:23take that money that I'm about to spend and put it towards whatever my next computer is whether that's a mac pro or
1:12:29and I'm accurate ever so looking at the specs that I'm back it is not ideal. I like something that's good for gaming.
1:12:35I worry that even the high end G.P.U. With that kind of resolution is not going to be great for gaming I already know.
1:12:41Like we look at the specs it looks like it may be a little bit weaker than one of the good G.P.
1:12:46Using the macro
1:12:48and if you're going to get a macro for gaming you can you know using Crossfire mode so you know at best it's half as
1:12:54fast as an actor over gaming and driving more pixels on the macro as a driver.
1:12:58Obviously he wouldn't run games that resolution anyway
1:13:00but anyway I want to see some benchmarks first because you know you can't replace it.
1:13:05It's all sealed into one big thing there's not going to be any upgrading about like upgraded the G.B.I.
1:13:10Mac pro it is now still a vaguely viable gaming machine only because upgrade the G.P.O. I can upgrade the G.B.
1:13:17Oh and I'm X. I spend four grand IMAX screen going to look awesome but how long will last as my gaming machine.
1:13:23So I'm still you know it's like well I don't buy this IMAX I was going to wait another year for you know for the new
1:13:31macros that can drive the hopeful eventual external version of this display.
1:13:37Well I think it might be two years for that actually if you look at the roadmap
1:13:41and what we're waiting for is the sleeper one point three and Thunderbolt three and most likely come together
1:13:48and that's not slated to go into the unsuccessful quite a while.
1:13:52It's not even sitting on its path until at least a year from now you know possibly longer if Intel believe anything
1:13:57which happens a lot. So it.
1:14:00I think you might be waiting
1:14:02and that's why I said I said in my article that you know Next up I said I would guess if I had to guess
1:14:08when Apple would ship an extra virgin this monitor out to twenty sixteen.
1:14:12Yeah I know I might do if I may never have to wait that long and I would just have to get as sustainability.
1:14:16OK Well this is an S.S.D.
1:14:17Like the thing that almost gets me to click the button the other thing is like I'm not going to throw it away if I got
1:14:22a new computer I would use the is like a backup drive
1:14:25or something you know like it's not like I wouldn't know I go that was actually a waste of money because I would use it
1:14:30but I'm just trying to you know say it because I don't know what it was like the pricing is so ridiculous on like it's
1:14:36similar pricing to the macro when you get a free gigantic monitor with big and
1:14:41and you know that the server services consumer gap is just embarrassing
1:14:47but the other thing is that especially with huge amounts of RAM I really seem silly and you know Marco said Isabel
1:14:54and your thing like we both have this feeling based on nothing which is probably false but the like that E.C.C.
1:15:00RAM with huge amounts of RAM is a benefit
1:15:02and Margaux you trivia like well you know somebody who knows that even was true
1:15:07and I just feel better is what comes down to I feel better with server class components and he's the RAM I just do
1:15:13and I don't know if it's completely in my head there's a placebo effect here on being a sucker
1:15:17or really that he she is correcting one bit errors all day long bags because I cannot remember the last time I had a
1:15:24kind of back on this MacPro this thing is like a champion.
1:15:27It just Other than that stupid spinning disks with a bloody passion it's not the macros fault they spin you know it's
1:15:32spinning rust whatever.
1:15:34Everything else about the gene one hundred percent reliable and I like that
1:15:39and so I would have more faith in the reliability of a second
1:15:43or third generation Boom Tube mac pro who's called the boom it was that way of saying that it was that you.
1:15:49Anyway I would have more faith in that machine just because it's also requires components in just the cooling system is
1:15:54so incredibly efficient and probably quieter and all the other things but it's very expensive.
1:16:00Now they go to games which is why I don't have the current one so I don't notice it on desktop yet for me.
1:16:05Man
1:16:05but this might be the year of John Surtees as it turns out because you're going to have a phone you can have a new i Pad
1:16:12you might have a new computer you have a new car the year of Casey
1:16:15or you're going to be a dad I said this on the show
1:16:19but you talk about someone who is good at doing dad jokes you were already such a day you were just like oh all you're
1:16:27missing is the kid at the terrible humor that all this is you are already a dad. I'm glad you approve.
1:16:35Now what's going to happen to your jokes after the kids born. They'll actually be funny.
1:16:38Now he's like he's been living the dad life for so long it's not just they don't have the kid.
1:16:43Ellen is the president all you need to sell young person to be embarrassed by him in the system is complete.
1:16:51So Marco you are going to order a maxed out I McComas i Pad Yes OK I think that that's what underscored it is well if I
1:17:01understood developing perspective correctly and that seems to be the trend these days so enjoy a new computer
1:17:07and I am so this is exactly.
1:17:08Speaking of this is exactly what happened when you guys weren't in the MAC community back then I don't think
1:17:13but one so there's that. The Yosemite's being you know seventy three as the G.
1:17:17Force and and the wind tunnel in the Quiksilver isn't a crazy liquid cooled thing and like all that stuff
1:17:23and the front side bus on Macs was just ridiculous compared to the C.P.U.
1:17:26Speed and we just it was so sad it was like what's going on here we don't
1:17:31and it was I think it was like one hundred thirty three and I heard front line bust of a gigahertz
1:17:35and a half see if you whatever was a bit of a scene it was like it was just a completely unbalance machine
1:17:40and we all hated it
1:17:41and everybody was just delaying their purchase just like there's no way in hell I'm buying that piece of crap you know
1:17:45whatever comes out you can tell is just not a good machine
1:17:48and so as soon as the power mac G five came out we all just buy the top
1:17:52and everybody like everybody I knew had the top of the top line dual to be a hard time actually five cheese grater
1:17:58which all bought them because of the industry. Pent up demand among us our little circle of nerds.
1:18:02So this is pent up demand for desktop retina
1:18:05and now I see everybody I know obviously have been saving their pennies waiting patiently
1:18:09and if there is a thing drop it like boom that's it that's what I want you know.
1:18:13Quad twenty seven just was I don't care about anything else I don't care that I'm Act Mustapha now so you know you guys
1:18:19are going to be great test drivers for this lovely Yami and honestly looking at it I don't.
1:18:25I looked over as I was an article about well you know basically
1:18:31and probably writing it talk talking to myself about this problem.
1:18:35Looking at this I was trying to think like what's the catch I was trying to find the catch
1:18:39and I thought it might be Keaton Fennoy isn't it turns out it totalled total system power usage is almost exactly the
1:18:45same as the old one where is the C.P.U. If you get the big C.P.U.
1:18:49I definitely recommend the I seven upgrade and if you get that it's like two more watts than the old one.
1:18:54You know it's not that big of a difference. The G.P.U.
1:18:57From what I've been told is slightly more power hungry
1:19:01but because the display is thirty percent less power hungry it down to that out and so the total system heat
1:19:08and power needs are pretty similar to the old one
1:19:11and the internal design looks exactly the same like the it's the same cooling the same structure
1:19:17and that's why it's actually a pretty mature system like this with the same eye that they've been shipping for years
1:19:23just with a crazy display on the front instead of the rest of the internals like they're not doing anything new
1:19:29and crazy with that so I don't actually forsee major problems except that you know if there's a problem with the panels
1:19:36you know if there's a problem with a major tension or that that's what it comes down to this this screen
1:19:41or the you know the whole dealing with two basic to Display Port things coming into one
1:19:46and integrating them off as any kind of lag like maybe you wouldn't care really for game purposes
1:19:50but is there any lag introduced with the synchronization is do you know why you think about the dual G.P.U.
1:19:58For pros and stuff when I first came out with a jeep.
1:20:00Are you switching out I was kind of on here with software will there be a similar issue like this like you never know
1:20:05what it is and do see the way they've done this panel with a single controller being treated as a single panel.
1:20:10No I understand I guess I'm not saying it's exact same problem it's just like when there is a
1:20:15when Apple does something for the first time like they hadn't done this before like they'd never know never heard of
1:20:20this player's way before they've never done before.
1:20:23There's a lot of moving parts to an EVO they control the whole stack you never know if it's going to become one of
1:20:26those things like wonky and it's worked out in the next generation product but you know no question.
1:20:31Next year when they update these with with new desktop Broadwell
1:20:35or if I come out next fall whenever the case like desktop rugelach come out it'll get faster.
1:20:40It'll it'll run a little bit cooler it'll run a little bit faster Broadwell the desktop is looking at going to be
1:20:45something like a ten or fifteen percent improvement.
1:20:47These are roughly ten or fifteen percent speed improvement over the ones from last year like this.
1:20:52That's just like you know that's what you get with desktops
1:20:54and so if you really want this right now I don't think there's a huge reason to wait for next years because it's no
1:21:02different than any other one year generational gap in desktops like every year it's going to get a little bit better it
1:21:08will be faster
1:21:09and I was like This is the second year they do the screen in this way you figured out more of the kinks worked out.
1:21:14If there are any things there are no kinks and find there are no kinks
1:21:16but the second year they do the screen you know even just like to the emitter attention on a mac book pro's like that
1:21:23that was an issue they think they got their supplier sorting out now it's not as bad as it was.
1:21:28Yeah exactly
1:21:29and one of the first generation a retina MacPro the image attention which was only affected some of the screens
1:21:36and I happen to get one which is annoying but even your trenchant didn't affect all of them
1:21:41and that was the only problem like the hardware in the first generation right
1:21:45and I was fine otherwise everything else about it.
1:21:47I've had zero problems with yep this could be fine most of the other thing is that there I think I feel like there is
1:21:54in the wrong term because more margin of error in gigantic machines than there is need little tiny precious.
1:22:00This is like I've always been on the laptops because the savings is jammed in there
1:22:03and there's no margin for error whereas a guy Mac. Even those all stupidly thin on the edge and stuff.
1:22:09There's room enough to breathe very alike.
1:22:11I don't feel like they're like they're trying to wedge things in don't have a room that is doing to themselves as you
1:22:15know so I feel like they have a better I mean so far like the mac pros.
1:22:20Well actually I have her stuff with an actress
1:22:22or something to her for the macros like dropping Network Connections whereas the other ones one of the thing that I've
1:22:27heard with macros like wanting a split with the hardware with the first generation boom to back prose.
1:22:34Oh yeah I totally forgot to be using a first generation macro macro it's fine.
1:22:37I've had zero for your years fine but I've heard other people have a couple of things here
1:22:42and there are the if there are even more demanding Thunderball type scenarios of whatever yours is been fine too like I
1:22:47mean I bought a first generation power mighty five and that machine is fine too like it's just you know
1:22:53but it's not because they never buy one.
1:22:56Just what ever else buy one see how it is for me thank you and then you know patience is rewarded.
1:23:01Oh yeah although I was I was worried that this that it might get into backwater because I suspect it's going to be
1:23:08amazing and because it is the computer that all of us have been waiting for or many of us have been waiting for.
1:23:14I suspect it's going to be any supply constraints we're going to see that pretty soon.
1:23:19Like the mac pro like that was so hard to get one of those
1:23:21and not because they were selling you know this just because it's so weird
1:23:23and exotic This is not a lot of you know exactly.
1:23:27So has the review and I was forgetting every year what I think is going to come
1:23:35and you're going to be so relieved that it's done but I forget it doesn't it's not how it goes like you publish it
1:23:43and there's no like a moment of triumph
1:23:46or relief because as soon as it's published you just you know it's I mean Mark of us I was like releasing software then
1:23:54you're just inundated with like the bug reports and worrying about you know how the launch is going and server.
1:24:00Capacity or whatever and like
1:24:02and that just so kind of like fades away like Eventually big rush of crap that you have to deal with
1:24:07and has the pain in the butt you run around like a chicken and you had got off
1:24:09and you worry about this you worry about that and you're facing things and deal with bookstores and going back
1:24:14and forth and you know responding to comments and Twitter and going to and just
1:24:18and that just that just slowly very gradually tapers and then eventually just peters off
1:24:24and then you just left like that.
1:24:26It's not it's not as exciting like I feel I could be Mark so if you're like a movie director
1:24:31and you work really hard this movie for a long time and then you go to like the opening night
1:24:35and Psych is what you can do about it then like you're not in response of making sure the projector doesn't break it's
1:24:39like well the movie's done people are going to see it completely out of my hands now that I can do about it unless I
1:24:46decide to grow a really big beard and wait sixteen years
1:24:48and you know so it's not like that for it's not like that for software.
1:24:53It's certainly not like that web for services or anything having to you know public facing websites
1:24:58and stuff like that is not really like that for my review either because it's not like I get it all
1:25:03but the dead publish it and then just wash my hands of it and run around like crazy fixing things
1:25:08and that never is fun it doesn't feel good and you are done. So is this the last review.
1:25:17Probably no this is the worst possible time to ask you that question though I know that's why that's why I'm not
1:25:21committing to it people have asked me and I'm going to give you a firm commitment
1:25:24but I'm going to tell you realize that right now I'm thinking definitely is not going to make the decision until later
1:25:29until I can make the decision clear of this you know this haze and you know whether
1:25:36or not what was different about this review in terms of the creation process felt the same as the past couple.
1:25:46Every year that you know I'm always worried about what things are going to get wrong
1:25:50and what I've been trying to do is steer myself towards the places I can add value in the review because realistically
1:25:55speaking like I have to have this thing done edited a copy.
1:26:00Does it evokes generated and sent to the bookstore basically before the final version of the O. S. Is done.
1:26:06So if you know one of the things I can't.
1:26:09One of the you know one of the values that I cannot bring is I can tell you intimate details about how the final retail
1:26:19installer binary works because I don't have the final retail installed I can tell you're already reading the review
1:26:24right.
1:26:24Like my ping goes live the second apple pushes the button to publish a thing in fact my thing where I live before
1:26:30people who actually are you sorry.
1:26:31So I have no idea how the retail installers in the mac apps to work they have no idea what is the I just have to go
1:26:35based on what the latest G.M. Candidate I had at the time made things worse.
1:26:40So this whole categories of things that has to do with specific details of the final bits that people are going to get
1:26:45that I just simply can't address unfortunately you have to kind of try to address some of them
1:26:49and hope you get it right and then that's the frustrating part of like oh actually they did change this
1:26:55and you know the very latest Jim that I didn't have a chance to test.
1:26:58Oh this is actually different in the retail version the version that I never actually saw until you already read my
1:27:02review and so you know someone who reads my review six months from now is going to like it doesn't happen to me
1:27:07when I do it it's like you're right it doesn't.
1:27:10But I had to go with the information I had at the time
1:27:13and of course by then you know ten point ten point three will be out which could behave differently anyway.
1:27:17So this whole categories of things that I just can't can't address and the reason why
1:27:22and then even the things I can address like tiny little details those are the things that change at the last minute so
1:27:29you can't spend you know three pages and then have it edited
1:27:32and copy edited talking about some minute feature that changes three times in the last three developer builds like you
1:27:37just wasted all your time reading him.
1:27:39If you're full time writer maybe you can dedicate the last three or four days to just working like mad
1:27:44but my per day time that I can allocate to this is fixed and very small because of a full time job.
1:27:50So yeah that's that's a frustrating part of doing that so I try to base with either view towards the parts that I can.
1:27:57address like broad strokes what is the SO S. I mean for the platform.
1:28:01What are the important features and how do they impact what the mac is like to use
1:28:05and how the mac fits in with Apple's other platforms and blah blah blah so that's why I spent almost all my time
1:28:10and alas reviews moving towards that but the process of writing it
1:28:13and it's just been the same as I think the past three or four of us especially in the past three
1:28:17or four of also had e-books.
1:28:19I've kind of been in this silly thing of writing and dealing with the production process
1:28:24and dealing with the bookstores and dealing with book formatting and every year it's a different thing than I am
1:28:30or let her down I was just disappointing like I had video
1:28:33and I entertained thoughts of perhaps I had a video inside the book says the first year I was going to have in mind
1:28:38video also doing an e-book but in line with uni books is so insane you can do it can be done and i Books
1:28:43but if you look at what the requirements are for in my video I stopped
1:28:47when they had requirement number one requirement number one dictated aspect ratio Mike No I had the cute little movie
1:28:52of this window you see in a little movie of the old you know China controls animated the aspect ratio made the window
1:28:59of one story about the production process of the book
1:29:02and I want to go too far into this is inside baseball nobody cares
1:29:04but this is the one that drove me nuts in this one little movie there's little inline movie showing animated controls
1:29:09of this little sewing mock up a maid Interface Builder just you know with a bunch of check boxes so I can check them
1:29:13and stuff and I wanted to make the movie a similar aspect ratio to this window and so I can't do it
1:29:18and I was right away once an aspect ratio that's like an America sixteen by nine
1:29:22or four by three whatever was it was in my eyes that great as Michael Screw you I'm not making a ridiculous video like
1:29:26that my thing is skinny.
1:29:28I'll just like it which which works fine just doesn't just not in line but shoot to make that movie.
1:29:35It's on a retina screen right and I need to record the movie.
1:29:38But I have so little knowledge about video production
1:29:42and so little software having anything to do with video reactions I can probably get honest effort than that which I
1:29:47have installed but I have no idea what I'm doing right.
1:29:49So my only tool in my disposal is like you know rocks and sticks here is to use Quick Time screen capture
1:29:57and quick answer in Cashel as you capture a portion of the screen. By dragging out a little rectangle.
1:30:02I have to drag out a rectangle that exactly twelve pixels wide by whatever honor retina screen.
1:30:11So it has to be twelve media retina pixels you know whatever it is nine sixty points right.
1:30:18And
1:30:18when you drag it out like that in quite quick time player with the exact issue of the mentions you have to go through
1:30:23the motions of neo go through the motions to make it like cooking the things and having from fields the fields
1:30:27and on checking the check boxes you have to do that first get like an eye sequence save the movie
1:30:34and then look at the movie you said and see the other dimensions right.
1:30:37You know many times the movie you know my time to check with check boxes.
1:30:41Oh and by the way Apple changed the look of the controls in the control animations like three times.
1:30:45I've made my hope of becoming a friggin time.
1:30:49The system I had for trying to trying to get like an exact you know movie made some people think it snaps for I have
1:30:55snaps for over like I don't like to install third party things especially that involve CACs on Yosemite systems are on
1:31:01that system that I'm testing as I don't want to take their advice offer which I may
1:31:04or may not be you know sort of validate if you use them because I was always a bug you know kernel panicking maybe was
1:31:09that's progress and he's Apple software. So my technique was to use X.
1:31:13Scope I can factories great utility that has a million tools for making like retina hairline guides
1:31:18and stuff like that and I had like wires all over my screen exactly framing the part that I want to do
1:31:23and then I use the accessibility zoom when making the rectangle. It's just it was insanity.
1:31:28Anyway that was the most ridiculous crazy part of doing this for a thing that nobody cares about.
1:31:33Not even in part by their view but I think a lot of time into it. So there that something is different.
1:31:39Happen again
1:31:40when movies were tourists that was a great movie it actually really helped a lot I really enjoyed watching it.
1:31:45That was like the worst performance of like that I had hooked up an external mouse because I'm so bad with a touch pad.
1:31:50The one that's in the review is a touch pad
1:31:52and I hate how that looks like I'm like a handicapped person moving them out around like has limited mobility.
1:32:00And I feel I feel like it was not an accurate representation of my mouse ing skills but I got it that's
1:32:04when I was at that point I was so tired of like I did have one mouth
1:32:09and had to disconnect it from my own can be I don't have a spare mouse
1:32:12and I was so tired doing that I just in the last seventeen runs to get that thing right with a touch pad
1:32:16and I'm like you know what. It's the right dimensions.
1:32:19It came out OK The background was correctly framed I don't care that the mouse looks a little stuttering so I'm still
1:32:25stuck on not an accurate representation
1:32:27and I think I think everyone agrees that the pad is what I think the trackpad to very aggressively for is an inferior
1:32:33input method in terms of speed and accuracy and they are completely ignorant about it
1:32:37but like yeah if you just look at it all you could see was a screen capture of cursor movement I feel I can tell that
1:32:43someone using a touch pad vs the mouse I agree the people who use the Magic Trackpad to believe that's what it's called
1:32:49the I don't understand how they do it.
1:32:51They're more interested in comfort then which is fine it's a reasonable trade off like you know I don't care about
1:32:56accuracy it's not a race I'm more interested in the comfort of my hands
1:32:59and you know they have more comfortable swiping their fingers across the surface but I'm very interested in patience
1:33:04and I grew up with the mouse so mouse forever. I completely agree with you.
1:33:10Do you want to go through I do have some questions to ask about bits
1:33:13and pieces of the review is there any general thoughts are there any general thoughts that you have before I ask you
1:33:18these I have tons of doubt us
1:33:20but I wrote most of them down in a convenient unveiling available form so you can just you know like I'm sure I'll
1:33:26bring up some of the stuff later
1:33:28and if I mean I'm sure I will talk more about why I think this will be my last one in some future show
1:33:34but one of the aspects of it isn't like I just have so much pent up things to say about this
1:33:40and it pains me so much in the world wherever this public bit is that everyone gets to talk about it
1:33:45and like you know the things that review that I wrote like a week after W.D.C.
1:33:50and I just had to sit there with gritted teeth for three months whatever else has the same discussions
1:33:54and then you know hope that I don't it up saying all guys are the same things that I can be like well I totally wrote
1:33:59that if we can.
1:34:01Anyway I have had a lot of things about you know somebody
1:34:05and a lot of them are already been said by other smart people which is a shame but what can you do.
1:34:11I'd like to start my dissection of your review by asking you if the reference on page fifteen the caption on page
1:34:19fifteen which I believe is a movie reference. This is the picture of your family.
1:34:24Is that a reference to The Godfather because if so I'd like to celebrate that victory quietly by myself.
1:34:29Barrus in yourself asking a question that shouldn't have to ask you should you should proudly say that hey did you know
1:34:37that I got the reference under this picture but ever and I would say that good
1:34:40but the thing is I've only seen like ten minutes a thousand times I'll tell you that that's not a lie.
1:34:46Watch Godfather wanted to do it. They're great movies.
1:34:48I says just listening to us now and my talk about The Godfather three doesn't exist.
1:34:54They're more or less right but I think you'll be plenty of time late at night if you pace back
1:34:59and forth in front of the tell if your child you can watch the entire movie many times over.
1:35:04Also page fifteen included my favorite line of the review which is in Yosemite as in life.
1:35:10Think carefully before starting a family.
1:35:13Everybody love that is that is the most popular line of their view
1:35:15and I am I don't like that line at all I almost didn't put it in because I thought it was terrible.
1:35:19Oh it's so good I actually wrote that down
1:35:21and I almost skipped right over some glad marker that you remembered I give a lot of something around like a double
1:35:28double thumbs up for should be reviewing your own roof. I know I know I think I deleted like three times.
1:35:36Not good John I love you. In on page nineteen you talked about S.M.S.
1:35:45and Messages and I have a couple thoughts on that first.
1:35:49First of all I think that's huge because I spend an inordinate amount of time in front of my computer particularly
1:35:57during the workday and although I don't exchange that.
1:36:00Many traditionalists amasses with that many people being able to fire one off well receiving one
1:36:06and more importantly being able to fire one off by using the keyboard on my mac. That strikes me as awesome.
1:36:14But the one of the things I wanted to ask you which you may or may not know the answers.
1:36:18Does that piece of continuity does that require B.T.L. Use well or is that just wife I I don't know the answer.
1:36:28Actually I think now that I think it just requires plain old Bluetooth in my work a wife of a no I do not know the
1:36:35answer that like with these things that require phone integration a lot of these didn't work in a reasonable way until
1:36:42very late and I stopped working entirely in
1:36:44and worked again with a plan one beta so I did not have a lot of time to go only that it's because we had enough time
1:36:48to do them to see that they work to see what it was like do them try to use them with like these little fake
1:36:53conversations with my wife in various places you know.
1:36:55And with this is by the way was an advantage of me having my you know non smart phone I can send S.M.S.
1:37:01Is not usually because I got to type in a number pad
1:37:03but I had a I had a device ready at hand that could not use I.M.'s
1:37:07and so I was setting myself as a message that we could have just turned that message off on that phone.
1:37:13But what I mean this is like like I said their view of this is kind of like a it should have always been this way.
1:37:18Like they should have always been a symmetry between the you know if the i Phone can do why can't the mac Once you have
1:37:24messages on the Macs like well but of course you can get S.M.S.
1:37:26Because it's tied to blah blah blah like you just need if you've got the phone and you've got the messages
1:37:32and the phone can hear it like these are all things the lot of the stuff in your semi is like it's almost like the i
1:37:38Phone in the MAC were made by two different companies for the amount of the integration
1:37:41and I said there are a view in retrospect is shocking how little integration there was between these two platforms for
1:37:48No no good reason like the technologies were there so I got old suddenly invented Bluetooth and life I like this.
1:37:54These things could have been talking to each other could've been cooperating could've been on the same page for so long.
1:37:58so now it's almost like S.M.S. So I don't know if it's going away.
1:38:02It's hard you know if you're in a circle everyone uses i Phones your whole family is often like oh yes I'm dead
1:38:07but in reality it's everywhere right.
1:38:09But I see the the rise of these messaging services like a line and whatever there's a lot of you know like non S.M.S.
1:38:16Messaging services that are very popular throughout the world and I just have to feel like and i hate us
1:38:21and I sort of hash I had to go like that technology not the idea of sending people text messages
1:38:26but that tech that particular technology for doing so I'll be glad when it's gone.
1:38:30But if it ends up paying around for a much longer time it's good that it's integrated in everything
1:38:35but like I still worry about reliability issues not so much of the software but of the server component of you know.
1:38:45Yes it is an S.M.S.
1:38:46and The gateway and all that is now just now you know one more thing that can be out of sync or only in one place
1:38:51or inexplicably out of order or whatever but you know better late than never.
1:38:57I think also I really enjoyed what came I think we're after this which was the unification of the phone calls thing as
1:39:04a very good points there and I'm looking forward to this world of like I can you know if somebody calls me
1:39:12and I'm sitting on the computer with my headphones on I can just sling the mike over
1:39:16and pick it up if you're talking to them like that.
1:39:19I didn't quite appreciate really until I read that part of your good
1:39:23and quite appreciate like how that will change the world of being a human being a part of a computer most of the day in
1:39:29this subtle and quickly forgettable way. But that's that's substantial I think.
1:39:35Yeah I don't know how much time you'll find out how much time you spend on the phone
1:39:39but I don't spend a lot of time on the phone but I I totally expected that phone feature to be wonky or weird.
1:39:45And there's a potential just like a lot of the i Cloud stuff for it to be wonky
1:39:48or weird because if it is want to read you like so many I hunt because you have no place to go to check for it right.
1:39:55But you know I didn't put this interview because I refuse but it more or less just work.
1:40:00Like it has just worked for a long time like the betas
1:40:03and like that I never had a problem with it did what it's supposed to do.
1:40:06Like you call a nothing appears and you can answer it there
1:40:09and I give it had all sorts of little nice feature like your ring ring tones and everything out there
1:40:14and I think someone said it and tried some of the like of you if you do. If that U.I.
1:40:18Is up and you didn't American Pad on your keyboard to make the little B.B.
1:40:21Sounds like the tone sounds of using a touch tone you know menus you have you know you can imagine doing it for example
1:40:27you have to be like on hold with Amazon for a year and a day
1:40:30or some are you know are more alike than on the cable company
1:40:33or something like to be able to do that while farting around on your computer without having to keep your phone on
1:40:38speaker phone on your desk
1:40:40but the sound bouncing off your debts like that just have it all integrated into the computer thing where you just want
1:40:45to record a call.
1:40:46Like Google you know Google Voice
1:40:49or Grand Central where ever the you know the kind of you know where you can do calling from your web browser
1:40:54and you know this is an I thought everything integrated and again this technology was there it's not rocket science
1:40:58or just audio it's a nice integration is nice
1:41:02and as long as it doesn't fall down which I didn't see it fall down it's just like oh yeah we still have done that why
1:41:09are we not doing that it's just they could have done that with the i Pad with the i Phone one practically like a wife I
1:41:16guess not you know telephone voices it's nothing.
1:41:20Well I think they're doing it over Bluetooth for sure because you know that the whole hand I think it has the ability
1:41:26to create an ad hoc wife eye connection for higher bandwidth stuff like file transfers to an air drop does
1:41:32but this could plausibly work entirely over Bluetooth Bam with Oh yeah certainly
1:41:36and you're also me will be shocked at how bad again how bad phone sound quality is my wife calling the other parts of
1:41:43the South like it sounds terrible cost on some terrible plane a plain old regular phones not you know.
1:41:49Yeah but it's it's the interface is nice. Like yeah good job Apple.
1:41:54Well it is also this will make phone calls lest its less disruptive like when you when you.
1:42:00Or at a computer you get a phone call like you got to get the vernier pocket you got to you know take you have a lot of
1:42:04you are going to hit it like these I knew it is like this.
1:42:07This makes that so much less disruptive a year if you disagree your calls us having to dig stuff.
1:42:12Yeah I have to have the same thing at work even with my non smart phone
1:42:16when I hear my non smart phone ringing I have to pull out of whatever drawer like a pocket or backpack
1:42:21and to see my wife calling or is it you know sung with the wrong number speaking to me in Spanish
1:42:27and it's like fifty fifty and I would much rather just look at the upper right corner of my screen
1:42:31and tap a little button to ignore when I know it's not you know see
1:42:34but this is evidence that Marko works at out of the house because if I get a phone call my first reaction is to grab my
1:42:43phone and run away from like Team area that I'm sitting in so I can be prepared to answer the phone.
1:42:49And half the time
1:42:49when it's the person who doesn't know me speaking Spanish I don't realize that until Marty like ten steps away from my
1:42:56desk area out of earshot of all of my co-workers.
1:43:00You know that's like you know even if you're going to answer it on your phone.
1:43:04Merely just using it as a caller id type of thing you know yes you know I completely agree. Yeah yeah.
1:43:09It which is a feature I have a blue phone elite in two thousand and five.
1:43:13Yeah and then as soon as the i Phone came out that stuff.
1:43:17But it was when I had it for that one year of my dumb phone it was amazing.
1:43:21You know like that like the almost like these platforms made by two different companies.
1:43:25The credible active integration which is supposed to be like Apple's big advantage like go one company makes everything
1:43:31it can all work together but there was this crazy separation between the MAC
1:43:35and the i Phone that now is finally finally coming down to being away.
1:43:39Yeah and I think I think your point was very apt that like you know until until now Apple's internal like.
1:43:47Org chart division was showing up too much in the product
1:43:51and I think this is as you said this is like an important like tearing down of that wall.
1:43:56Yeah and really focusing the interaction inclusion.
1:44:00Very similar as they always are
1:44:01but I really felt this with using a so as I'm writing this review like it it now feels like it can include the watches
1:44:10because who knows what else gone there
1:44:11but I was in the back where they feel like one sort of unified platform being worked on by one team like in that that
1:44:19every idea they come up with will be like how does this idea plied to both platforms like extensions that they could
1:44:25have just on Iowa State extensions of me like well I need some way to extend it because it's been a super lockdown
1:44:30platform we totally don't need those on the Mac.
1:44:32Right because the one you can already do all sorts of ways of the know we're going to make an extension thing
1:44:36and we're going to give them X.
1:44:37and Why would you why would you want to ring fence and I can already do all that's a great use of it
1:44:40and I can act as a needed I need to don't waste your time that it's like we're making this extension mechanism we think
1:44:47is the best extension mechanism ever made in terms of safety and you know an A.P.I.
1:44:52That we can support him blah blah blah and why wouldn't we bring this to every one of our platform.
1:44:57Why would we say the Mac. Anything you just have little bundles of all you know crash system U.I.
1:45:02Ceramic everybody said no.
1:45:04They bring it to both of them and they bring it about them in a way that you can actually share code between them
1:45:07and I was not exactly the same and no you don't make the mac use U.I.
1:45:10Kit but there's enough sharing between and like that's being it's being addressed as a holistic thing
1:45:15and I don't know if I went too much in the conclusion I would like to hammer on it more like the idea that Apple is
1:45:22viewing its customers as people who use multiple devices in their lives rather than using their devices as targets for
1:45:28software that they make right where it stops thinking about the i Phone is a piece of hardware we want to write awesome
1:45:34software for to make a great product
1:45:36and the i Pad is a piece of hardware we aren't often suffer for it to make a great product
1:45:39or mac like that is you're looking at hardware and then you write software for
1:45:44and you see this product you like done whereas what they should be looking at is people who buy our stuff are
1:45:49individual people one person
1:45:52and that one person if they're good Apple customer has an i Phone has a mac maybe has an i Pad
1:45:57and that one person does not divide themselves up into. You know three devices is just one person.
1:46:02They have one set of stuff they have one set of people that they know it's all like the clouds that comes in from the
1:46:06Google stuff as well but like we should be addressing that person's need
1:46:11and that person's needs had nothing to do with what we think in the abstract we should make this is the best phone we
1:46:17can make this is the snack we can make
1:46:19and that person says that I'm just one person I don't care that the phone is awesome they're not girls over there.
1:46:23How can you make them both awesome for me so I really like the fact that it seems like Apple's platforms are now being
1:46:30addressed as a sort of you know one thing you know we want you as the customer to be able to use our stuff
1:46:39and it's all one big thing
1:46:41and you know if we can blurred distinctions Eugenie then you can move from one to the next
1:46:45and your stuff comes with you and we can you know make them look the same
1:46:49but like have a similar feel is another big thing I may not have gotten to as much they really want to like how you
1:46:55know so I did not look like Iowa seven
1:46:56but you could there's a family resemblance like it's not like we have to make a picture of a big guy with seven
1:47:01but they look similar enough
1:47:03and so you feel like you feel like you're going from room to room in a big house that you own the whole house
1:47:07and all your stuff is everywhere but I didn't write that analogy.
1:47:14Goodness The other thing I want to mention on page nineteen was this one line is a great example of what I love about
1:47:23reading your views because your views are very approachable even for someone who doesn't have the background that say
1:47:31all of us have and the best part is they have this toning character to them the through serious
1:47:37and then there's these little drops like what Marco brought up a minute ago with the quote from the other page about
1:47:45Think carefully before starting a family.
1:47:47And here on page one nine hundred also that dog totally looks like Harrison Ford. It's so random and so delightful.
1:47:55It's not random you didn't know that was a me and I've seen that before you know the main I got how I know I did even.
1:48:00No that is a lot of references you know gay case they just assume that they have before on the show I have you know
1:48:06people are you going to make like a compendium of all the books are and that's the be like a huge amount of work
1:48:11and I have no idea if that
1:48:12but one thing I always fantasize about doing which you probably also want to do is just going back through all my old
1:48:17reviews and annotating all the references
1:48:20but I don't know where that would be for other than me maybe has an audience of one.
1:48:24But I guarantee nobody who's not me you know I got everything out because they're super obscure like from my own
1:48:30private life like oh this is the reference the friend that in general you know that it's from that all everything that
1:48:36everybody should know right.
1:48:37But they're everywhere like I put them it's how I entertain myself why I write stuff so I wear the Harrison Ford dog
1:48:42doesn't mean I'm and everyone sent it to me and I thought it was awesome
1:48:45and I thought I sent it to you about a pilot and of the K.C.
1:48:48but It's super small and there are views of you don't know that name.
1:48:51You might still squint at the Dongo tiny Squinty Doug does kind of look like ours but that's exactly what I did.
1:48:56Super looks like I go right now on the next page you made an extremely bold Clinger Nations a claim statement that was
1:49:08just in the middle of actually was the very end of the page. Apple's cloud services may finally be on the right track.
1:49:15I'm going to ask you the stupid question leading question Do you really mean that I do it and remember
1:49:22when I came out of the cloud at the session I like I think everybody came in a session was like Oh jeez find it like
1:49:28this if you have any experience either implementing sort of Web services yourself
1:49:32or being a customer of other people's web servers.
1:49:34You know what's out there like if you use like Azure
1:49:37or the Amazon things we've written services like what everybody's doing in the web space
1:49:42and then over here is like a core data which is you need an alley and it was nothing like any other services and
1:49:47and clog it was like oh yeah yeah that's more or less what we've all been doing that and now you're doing that
1:49:53and you're doing a good job at it looks at this whole implausible like it's the way someone implementing it you know.
1:50:00Someone like well versed in the art who is not an Apple would implement something like that it's kind of like that
1:50:05and it's the way people who write mac apps have been writing their own little services to you know
1:50:10when they had to sort of roll their own.
1:50:11Everyone was making stuff like that an apple an apple making one and it's a really good one
1:50:15and it's well thought out and has all the advantages that Apple had
1:50:17and it's like she's finally like no more Web Objects no board no more porting a local only A.P.I.
1:50:24To suddenly be cloud based not you know it's just no more weird impedance mismatch is no more being doing doing things
1:50:30differently based on weird technologies that Apple really loves that no one else likes it was just a straightforward
1:50:36simple you know good kind of like sink it was too like you know we have been bringing people from the outside world
1:50:43and don't force them to do it like the quote unquote Apple way
1:50:46and just say you know use current best practices to do a really good job and then leverage Apple's expertise
1:50:52and infrastructure to do that and that's what Crikey look like and I guess in their view it's not Apple screwed.
1:50:58They're building everything on it.
1:51:01There's still the server back end to worry about the still reliability concerns are still you know still plenty ways
1:51:06they can screw this up but it seems like it's on the right track.
1:51:10If you're trying to build something weird
1:51:12and it's buggy you're like look first of all you build in some weird thing you no one else is doing it like that Are
1:51:16you sure this is the right way and second of all it's full of bugs.
1:51:18If you're building something more straightforward or more in line with best practices
1:51:22and then it's above you're like well you build in the right thing it is going to get better at it like I feel like
1:51:25you're halfway there you know. Yeah nine I mean I'm not arguing I'm just it was a bold statement. Impressed.
1:51:34I mean I don't think I said that
1:51:35when i Cloud came around I guess mobile me going like I was a good move like the can that
1:51:39and you know yeah it was it was a good idea to clean house and pick a new name
1:51:43but that wasn't a big turnaround the cloud kit that W.C.
1:51:46Session really really convinced me that that there are at least some people there who who who know what the right thing
1:51:55to do is and are being allowed to do it which is definitely an improvement.
1:52:00The next page is Page twenty one and it's the beginning of the swift section and I should point out to begin with that.
1:52:10Chris Laettner actually linked to this review saying hey the swift section was really good
1:52:17and I thought that was tremendous. So congratulations for that. Genuinely I think that's extremely awesome.
1:52:24Everyone should follow him because he is the ideal person the father is you know interesting and famous and smart
1:52:31and does not tweet a lot so you just follow you for get you involved
1:52:36and then one day hopefully something you'll be the first one to know there's no one else fault I'm so focused on you
1:52:41know it was it was I'm trying to find it and I can't so I'll just move along but it was a really short tweet
1:52:48but a really nice tweet and that to me is a pretty big stamp of approval so you should be proud of that.
1:52:55This what section was great I also like the end of the first pages which section which again is Page twenty one wherein
1:53:01you said print line are you not entertained. That would be Gladiator. Just a file.
1:53:07Well I think that predicts that it
1:53:10or another wherever a know the from that's basically where I know it from Are You Really taking my moment away from
1:53:17things like yours a lot worse. Yeah but that.
1:53:20But seriously though like when
1:53:21when I found out you can do that which was I didn't know anything so it was an Elton like you know.
1:53:29Pounding use of been swift in to start typing on like what are your thoughts at that time
1:53:34and I will let you know if I think it's important like that that you know if you didn't have a handle on what Swift was
1:53:48like you come out of the you know you're like I don't know what this raise with thing is
1:53:50but it's like it's crazy I don't know what's up here
1:53:52and then you find out that it's like what I tried to lay out in the in this one thing it's so much of this with
1:53:58discussion on the web has.
1:54:00When not ignorant because every knows this but focusing on whatever they want to focus on
1:54:05and not focus on like Swiss obviously very publicly right in front of your face stated goal
1:54:12and the goal sounds crazy and stupid and maybe it is psycho
1:54:15and that maybe that's the problem like their goals gradients do that
1:54:18but their goal is to make this language that goes right from the little you just are type
1:54:21and you put a little line of doubling you start typing the file you just run it to go from that all we have to
1:54:27or you can write a whole ass in this that sounds ridiculous and maybe you know maybe it is ridiculous
1:54:31and maybe that is the root problem of the language
1:54:32and people be like I don't understand why she was doing this thing it's like it's in the goal like if someone gave you
1:54:38this project
1:54:38and said I want you to make a language that can go scale from scripts all way up to writing an operating system that
1:54:45would inform everything you did about language design and
1:54:48when people complain about features they're like oh I don't like this you couldn't it was like yes
1:54:52but then the language would have been able to span this ridiculous range
1:54:55and so I feel what people should be disagreeing with is the mission of the language.
1:54:59That's where people should be focusing their anger is that it's stupid to make a language expand this range where you
1:55:03should be doing is making a really good Objective C.
1:55:04Replacement and
1:55:06and you know I'm I think I like the idea the idea of the ambition of this of these me to say it is I'm not you know I
1:55:14was developer a mac developer is going to be forced to deal with this transition we're just going to be bumpy.
1:55:19But I have as as an outside observer I mean I like the guts of someone trying to do that saying that's what they're
1:55:25going to do not keeping it a secret but I think this is what we want to make and we think it's possible
1:55:30and this is how we think we can do it
1:55:31and that just just incredible clarifying lens for everything having to do this with things like the things you don't
1:55:37like the direction as you might think it will go in the future you have to look at that mission
1:55:42and it could be they changed that mission I said that mission was dumb it unnecessarily hamstrung us.
1:55:46We're dropping one and or the other of it and we're changing language
1:55:48but you know if you were to look back at what objectives they look like in one nine hundred eighty nine
1:55:52or were never know when it first came out
1:55:54and compared to object you see today I'm going to say like times least give Swift a chance.
1:56:00It's so incredibly new is going to look so amazingly different
1:56:04and hopefully much better if it's given a couple years to cook especially the rate Apple has been improving its them
1:56:10tools over the past you know say five ten years. Objective C.
1:56:14Did not get that much better Intel Apple sort of took and ran with it in the last decade or so.
1:56:20Yeah one of the things that was interesting to me about the review specifically about Swift was that there was a lot of
1:56:28very subtle I don't like get on board guys kind of tone to it
1:56:34and I agree I mean I haven't really played this with much because I've barely had time for anything lately
1:56:40but everything I've seen is really impressive
1:56:43and your review just made it even more impressive being able to see exactly how a lot of the stuff is is held together
1:56:52and so I agree with you I mean for all the curmudgeons out there I don't think that's really necessary I really think
1:56:58this is going somewhere good.
1:57:00That's what I was most interested in like I was coming at it from my perspective I mean the high level languages all
1:57:04day and using Perl javascript stuff like that but it's so far from like so so far from dealing directly with memory
1:57:10or so far from being efficient
1:57:12or so increase Basically I'm doing an incredibly slow language it's from the perspective of someone doing with the
1:57:16object to cost us right.
1:57:18But it's great because you don't have to worry about all these you know the concerns of people dealing with lower level
1:57:22languages.
1:57:23There was just so much more efficient and productive and just
1:57:26and it's with the promise of flows like we're going to be you know it's a low level language the high level syntax
1:57:33we're going to we're going to spend a huge range of
1:57:35when you use it it's going to feel like so nice you know to worry about all these little details will take care of it
1:57:39for you whatever
1:57:40when you write it it's going to be fast like those other languages that you had to spend all day writing type names in
1:57:44million times and and using funny isn't actually worrying about memory and and pointers
1:57:49and also saw stuff I guess the promise of the language
1:57:52and what I was interested in is from the perspective of the high level language programmer.
1:57:56How can you possibly make that fast because all these other high level language you use is.
1:58:00Even when huge amounts of money and time and effort
1:58:04and brain power isn't put towards them it's really hard to make them fast
1:58:06and Javascript is the best example that it is just like millions and millions probably billions of dollars
1:58:11and some of the smartest programmers in the entire world focusing on trying to make this terrible language that someone
1:58:17made a long time ago fast because everywhere because you have to it's in the web browser right
1:58:21and then lesser languages like perl or python have far fewer brains and far less money.
1:58:27Also trying to make them fast because they're running on the server as you know
1:58:29and then you get Java which is All other thing
1:58:31but like the nice high level languages that people really love trying to trying to make that language fast
1:58:38and it's easy to make a low level language fast it's straightforward like C.
1:58:43You can say like I can tell it you know it I can see if you look at C.
1:58:46You can see the same way as I portables I like things actually was that goes into like all the dots connect
1:58:51or whatever
1:58:51but if you can have a high level language like Java it's so much harder to be efficient because you have to like to
1:58:57make things fast you have to tie things down but if you try things out the pain in the butt to use
1:59:01and so I want to know is you know in a language like swift where even the what we think of the basic types like enters
1:59:08and strings are defined in a library.
1:59:10How can you possibly get that to be fast how can you how can you sort of bolt that infrastructure all the way down into
1:59:16the compiler and it's not easy like it's worked and been invented in a vacuum.
1:59:20Right so it just this isn't actually looks like this but all I'm doing is typing
1:59:23and then just handed that language back off to somebody
1:59:25and said now make this really fast there are so many different approaches you can take if you are not you know Chris
1:59:32lander and his team
1:59:33or someone who has written L V M inclining everything you could take the approach of for example Perl or Python
1:59:39or Ruby have taken and they have changed their approaches over the years.
1:59:41There are lots of different jobs for that matter there are lots of different ways to make engines for high level
1:59:45languages the way they made this engine for a high level language you know for example in Perl or javascript
1:59:53or routine stuff. Well no I don't know who everybody says but like the basic types.
2:00:00Use are not defined in the library source code you can see like they're part of the language even in things like
2:00:06integer is part of the language or you know shorter
2:00:08or float like that's part of the language is not that's not a library that you can plug in
2:00:12and it's with them in all everything a library
2:00:15and then just found this clever way to bolt that library to what they knew would be the implementation of the language
2:00:21so that I found fascinating about trying to pick with the easiest possible example
2:00:25and it still expanded into like you know thousands of words of annotated source dumps or whatever that that's more
2:00:32or less a simple I can get it but I think the implementation is fascinating I think the language like I am.
2:00:37I'm a high level language type of guy
2:00:39and I hate all of the static typing stuff that Iran complains about about stuff like I hate that stuff too.
2:00:43I don't want I don't want to deal with types at all. I want everything to be dynamic.
2:00:47I don't want anything to be tied down so in that respect.
2:00:51Swift is totally against my personal taste
2:00:53and I don't think static typing in this area make good code I linked to a lot of things that people you know there's a
2:00:57lot of things on the web on both sides argument a link to some of the better known pieces in the Swiss section about
2:01:03how dealing with type systems is B.S.
2:01:05and It just gets in your way and I don't do all that crap at all
2:01:08and the error is that you think it's saving it's all just to do
2:01:10and really if you just had a knack language everybody be better and happier and more productive
2:01:14and that really matters and blah blah blah.
2:01:16We can all have that debate but bottom line is Swift is not the kind of language.
2:01:20So if this trying to be the button down tied down static everything language that I really hate
2:01:25but trying to make it palatable and it's super interesting in that respect you became worth nothing
2:01:30and I think Swift is awesome.
2:01:32Swift is not the language that I would design like it doesn't look like it doesn't it doesn't match my tastes at all
2:01:38but it does match its creators tastes
2:01:40and it does match the it is a good fit for the mission that the creator set out for the language.
2:01:48What it doesn't match up with so much is if you see if you really really like Objective C.
2:01:52and You love dynamic dispatching you loved you know calling the selectors making selectors out of strings
2:01:58and calling them into it.
2:02:00Stuff which again I'm with you I'm using even higher level languages I'm doing all sorts of crazy the hundred string of
2:02:06hours you don't even know what's going on in Java Script in Perl The only with you.
2:02:10Right but that's not the language so it does and that is the source of tension
2:02:13and that's I don't know how they're going to do them plus with us to deal with all the objectives the integration which
2:02:17is such a pain in the butt that's putting warts all over like why this warrants Well why the hell is this here why does
2:02:22this work this way with the special case rule at all because it's got to work with your thing Objective C.
2:02:25Libraries in a semi idiomatic way and it's all you know that it's not afraid to have worked
2:02:31and it's got plenty of them but I just hope five years from now this experiment goes goes well
2:02:38and that all the people who are cranky about it I guess will join the people who are cranky about dots
2:02:42and I thought this is probably the same people are just like you know Time marches on
2:02:49and some new kid coming up from years from now hopefully will start learning his Iris development in swift
2:02:54and think it's perfectly fine natural and if he ever sees Objective C. It'll be like oh God what were you guys doing.
2:02:59You know I think I hope it will be OK I think we'll be OK. Smart people behind it so I'm optimistic.
2:03:08It's funny how many people I've talked to a developer friends of mine usually in the Microsoft world
2:03:13but nevertheless developers I've spoken to over the last few years who have said oh yeah you know I'd really like to
2:03:19mess around with writing an i Phone app and I caught that Objective C.
2:03:22Syntax I can't even look at it so that those people are never going to write it happen anyway.
2:03:26Like that it's all yeah it's like the square brackets is the least of the
2:03:29but I'm going to say like if you come from another mobile platform
2:03:32and you're like what I have to dereference players where all the stars in your declaration you seem to see like what
2:03:39are you going to do and I don't have to deal with that stuff I don't you know.
2:03:42So like that in that respect
2:03:44and I've got people complain to me that Swift is not a Harley level language than Objective C.
2:03:48Which I think is crazy like a swipe at the whole section in there which is a reference to case he doesn't get the title
2:03:53of this show looks like a high level language right guys like if you use Python if you use Perl or Ruby or jobs.
2:04:00Like this on you know if you just a passing familiar look high level language book no pointers my quote unquote made
2:04:07strings I'm going to do basic things that collection classes. There is just all that stuff in any objective C.
2:04:13With a literal that everyone's happy it's like no regular english just have that it is a common thing a high level
2:04:19language at a glance before you know what's going on with and everything
2:04:23and yet some people are saying Swiss not really high level language with a static dispatch
2:04:26and I need to make my selector names out of strings and call them if I can't. That sucks.
2:04:32Heard from and I saw refuse the objective here on time.
2:04:35You can stop and that's that that chasm will be solved by old people retiring. Hyla you John.
2:04:48All right so on page twenty two a couple quick notes first there is a link the first of actually what ended up being
2:04:55many links to M S D N which made my C.
2:04:58Sharp developing heart smile
2:05:01and additionally I want to ask you How was all of the work figuring out this glue between Swift
2:05:09and the actually six opcode was that all your work by yourself did you have help with that how did that come to be.
2:05:17I have put all the things like um I lean on the smart people that I have contact with to ask questions
2:05:22and to help me run experiments or whatever
2:05:24but I mean the good thing is that like you only need like a little shove in the right direction by smart people like
2:05:30they don't need to hold your hand through anything because I have all the tools at my disposal like all these this is
2:05:35one of the you know the developer tools you know such as changing one time
2:05:38and it's I mean maybe it's because of environment I feel natural and like programming all day that's my job right.
2:05:44All you got to do is play in the right direction.
2:05:46I have the command line tools I can write code I can you know I can figure out flags to commands I can you know write a
2:05:52little test programs you know I can figure it out I just need to be like that you know you should look over here
2:05:59and there.
2:06:00About this are
2:06:00and that's why I think the super simple example because I'm not particularly familiar with sixty four assemblies like I
2:06:05can just look at this and know what it is I don't look up all that you know the stupid things
2:06:09and that's why I like what the symbols thing adding two numbers together I can handle that like I don't want to get
2:06:14fancy can be hard enough for me to figure out the ending to numbers
2:06:16but I just a question I didn't know how it worked I wanted to I wanted to figure it out
2:06:21and so yeah I had a lot of help with this
2:06:23but mostly in terms of like here's what you want to look at here's what you want to do you know something you know this.
2:06:34This example will be instructive for the things I would have questions about well what about this and that over
2:06:38and over and over like. Actually if you're interested in that concept.
2:06:41This example is different
2:06:42and so even though my examples I was led to was like the example you're trying to do will never explain that concept do
2:06:49you use this example instead so long as things like Arc was the other one was in a similar vein of like you know arc
2:06:57was explained fairly well but is like a lot of questions about like how how exactly does a work inside
2:07:02and how does it relate to and like
2:07:03and you know even if like the wise like getting game talk to people who are involved in the process
2:07:08and the like why are can not object why are cannot garbage collection like why specific let's get into that section was
2:07:15most similar thing to the Arc section as no coincidence that it's you know both developer technologies both you know in
2:07:22sort of the same vein in the same kind of team doing stuff so no I thought this the section was extremely interesting
2:07:30and I've been worried about assembly
2:07:32and has no time in getting pretty much all the way down to that level was a fun adventure into things I've long
2:07:40forgotten so I really enjoyed it and the people who like actually know this stuff and you like it like my gas
2:07:46or something like that there's nothing groundbreaking that anyone who cared could have figured all this out
2:07:51and probably did right you know all the people are actually writing swith like if you go to my guests thing Friday Q.
2:07:57and A or whatever there is M M A.
2:08:00Those guys actually know what they they don't need any help from apple to apple should hire them if they're not like
2:08:04very probably tried to hire them many times like you know to me it like that's that's a whole other category thing I'm
2:08:11just like pecking on the outside here getting help from those type of people so there is no groundbreaking stuff here
2:08:17is just you know this is what I as ever is why I think I try to explain it to people even farther outside like if I can
2:08:25if I can have it explained to me
2:08:26and figure it out I feel like I might be able to explain it to someone else that's why I like you know it's action
2:08:31seems like it's impenetrable.
2:08:33I feel like anybody even if you know almost nothing about computers can be led through it
2:08:36and you get the gist of it you're not going to know all the little details I don't know all the little details like a
2:08:41lot of the output from the you know the compiler that I can sort of figure out more
2:08:46or less what it's doing again because the thing is so simple and I can you know say this is that in line.
2:08:51Why is this that I'm going to like and look at the same stuff but it's put over there
2:08:54and I can I can figure out the you know I know enough about assembly I can figure out well something to different
2:08:58because the arguments are in different places that I can you know if you know the concepts of like how do you return
2:09:02from a function like they're basic concepts that everybody would learn like if the S.
2:09:06Class armed with even just that you can more or less make heads or tails of this type of things.
2:09:11I'm sort of an ambassador to people who know slightly less than I do
2:09:15and I know way less than the people who actually know what I can do. Fair enough.
2:09:22The next thing I wanted to comment on was the what's a final stand for swift intermediate languages there are
2:09:29intermediate or intermediary or one of those two words.
2:09:31Now either way you've made you had written at some point
2:09:36and I believe it was on page twenty three of I don't know if that's correct.
2:09:40It's possible that the larger purpose of S.Y.L. Has not yet been revealed.
2:09:45Do you have any particular thoughts about what that might mean.
2:09:49Like do you have any thoughts as to what a file would be used for you know if I had it I would've put it in there I
2:09:54just I just get it like so in those diagrams like this is not a minor thing right.
2:10:00Adding an entirely new intermediate representation
2:10:03and language that essentially like that no one writes things in right that is a significant step
2:10:11and is that this is like what we need to do that because L.V.
2:10:14and I are doesn't have doesn't retain enough information about the source language trust of I'm certain observations
2:10:18Yes that's totally true that's that's like why it's their right and it is interesting but that's a long way to go.
2:10:24So I have made that's all there is to it.
2:10:26I don't have any inside information and I can't see anything if I had a theory of becoming it to you now.
2:10:31All it is is like it just seems like another big box in a diagram in another language to support for this people
2:10:37building these tools they must have thought it was important enough to you know because they could have like left that
2:10:42but that they that and just tried to bridge the gap between you know L.Z.
2:10:47and I are
2:10:48and the source code with you know with a smarter compile I mean quite what kind of Racine's he lost they didn't make an
2:10:55imaginary language those things like we can we can more
2:10:57or less draw a line from those languages even though they're fairly complicated specially he opposed us we don't need a
2:11:02whole other third representation in the middle there but for for so if they did
2:11:06and you know I someday have reason you know it's get so young.
2:11:13This may be a future proofing thing like so much a Swiffer I look at it I say like this has nothing to do with this
2:11:18today but they're like three years from now.
2:11:22Like there's an end game in mind like this is the these are the type of off the nations I would like to be able to do
2:11:27three years now.
2:11:28There barely a glimmer my eye now there's no way in hell we dissolve the nations now
2:11:31but I'm going to do everything in my power not to preclude them later.
2:11:35So maybe still has something to do with like leaving those doors open
2:11:40and saying if I'm going to the Appalachian one I'm going to need a thing like this
2:11:43and so make a thing like this now for these reasons
2:11:45and later on we hope it will be useful for these reasons a lot of that's kind of like a permanent pattern like yeah GNI
2:11:52going to need it they need it now they need filled out of the Appalachians I talked about the generics and the need
2:11:59but. It's useful for that purpose.
2:12:01You know this is the review of the opposition I showed in some other ones you know would be awkward
2:12:08or impossible like would it be impossible impossible know you can always do it I mean you know it's like
2:12:14when you're in the compound of this thing
2:12:15but it's certainly a lot easier with Phil which is which is much closer to the source than L B M I R which is much
2:12:22closer to assembly. So now nothing specific there. I'm a little disappointed but I was hoping you were being coy.
2:12:29That's right so I only have two more quick points
2:12:32or questions I guess more points that I wanted to make on that same page which is twenty three
2:12:39and in the shape of the future section you made passing reference to Pearl having too many funny characters which made
2:12:46me strangely happy because I forget that you actually do you acknowledge that Pearl is not the best thing that's ever
2:12:53been conceived.
2:12:55Well I was acknowledging was that other people think it is too many I think I don't mind it goes thing to say because
2:13:01funny it's like saying English has funny characters with all this punctuation it's pointless
2:13:05and it's noisy would be so much nicer which is all a series of lowercase letters which have a lot of people right on
2:13:11the line because it's like this weird affectation but no punctuation and capital letters serve a purpose.
2:13:15What's the point of all these types are just noisy.
2:13:18Well that Huffman coding because it is frequently type of and you know if you can a thing
2:13:27or two in a race dictionaries
2:13:30and scalars having a single character dated on each of them is much better than doing some crazy Unger innovation which
2:13:35is also much better than having no distinction just having to remember so I am not I do not agree that in Perl as much
2:13:42as I think all the time duration in part with the exception of the global variables which are just silly nonsense left
2:13:46over from show arc hang over from years ago but Dyson at present fine Swiss and have them doesn't
2:13:53but I didn't design sweat so they are right and then my final point which I wanted to make was from the.
2:14:00The last page page twenty five and it might be him in the very last line let me see now it's not but you had said
2:14:07and I'm quoting Apple has shown that it wants to succeed more than it fears being seen as a follower
2:14:13and I thought that was extraordinarily astute and a really really really good summary of Apple today
2:14:19and I just wanted to congratulate you on that.
2:14:21Well that's like you know there's the other part of that in a similar vein I think on that same page is like the list
2:14:27of things that will never do slowly turning into a list of things Apple has done right.
2:14:31Like with that with the ads they have jobs and Tim Cook coming on like all you know and Scott forestall leaving
2:14:37or whatever like the rule set is changed mostly for the better
2:14:42and i Cloud Drive is what I was thinking over the you know with what he called Apple being more afraid of not having a
2:14:52good product
2:14:53and they were like well aren't you just helping Dropbox like what's worse being someone say you copping Dropbox are not
2:14:57having a future like Dropbox that people have proven that to love so I caught drivers like you know is an admission of
2:15:03defeat.
2:15:06That's that's what stopped him from doing it like we can't do that we've had all this time we're saying we're not going
2:15:10to be able file system like what we do full of what we don't like in Iowa so we got a drag either you know like it was
2:15:15and that mountain lion stuff like this what are you afraid of people saying you're copping Dropbox are you afraid of a
2:15:21crappy product well for past couple years you've had a crappy arrived
2:15:24and you do because of this you know drop boxes of each our products like
2:15:29and I don't even know if it was the right move like maybe the right move would be to stick your gun that actually do
2:15:34come up with something better
2:15:34but if you can't do that go on with the thing that you know people like is better than sticking as I'm super gravity so
2:15:42it's a spectrum I don't think this is the biggest move
2:15:44but it shows that Apple's willing shows that Apple's going to do it
2:15:48and you know again I don't even know if I'm going to use i Cloud Drive I have an I like everybody else who's a nerdy
2:15:53person probably was in the show.
2:15:55We've all been using Dropbox right I have some complaints about dropouts but it still has some event is a right.
2:16:00Dr I'm doubt by not knowing whether everything's all think i Cloud Drive I mean to look at my little menu bar icons in
2:16:06the green checkmark you know that everything is think not just an individual file. So I don't know.
2:16:12But
2:16:13but yeah I'm glad this is this is the new Apple doing things the normally don't do talking to talking to the press more
2:16:22being more open with developers having a swift blog that actually has more than one post on it.
2:16:27You know it's a brave new world. It is indeed. Any closing thoughts. And I guess I don't I think court.
2:16:41I think two or three sponsors this week I forgot to do more of the mesmerized you mandrill Squarespace and glue
2:16:52and I'll see we. And we'll see you next week.
2:16:59Now on the issue is this it was accidental accidental drowning and you are now sitting on the campaign trail
2:17:30and access to that skill list and he read to you.
2:18:00I'm tired you know you want to give any more references that you got
2:18:04and there are viewers that it didn't turn to movies out that was a pretty bad as a trap for you I'm sorry guys I feel
2:18:12like all right that's fine that's cool. I know I'll never be good enough for you John.
2:18:17It's cool like so I go to a lot of therapy for this.
2:18:22Again like how low do we have to make the bar how what is is there is there any is there any pop culture reference that
2:18:30you would would feel like that of another person didn't know you'd be surprised.
2:18:35Now the person who lives in the same country as you
2:18:37and you know similar age similar sort of like income like some of the life experience
2:18:44and you just be shocked if they did not get this reference like the one of their anything.
2:18:47Yeah something from Super Troopers Spaceballs Michael go deeper
2:18:52and I go to like Mickey Mouse How about that someone who's never heard of making out
2:18:55and no idea who Mickey Mouse is what making us looks like isn't is you know is it a mouth like rolls
2:19:00or on the ground of that for nothing.
2:19:01Would you be like oh my God how can you know no Mickey Mouse like that what we have to go to.
2:19:06Do you really want to know if you like Richard Burr is like that is pretty am I'm saying like you know because for me
2:19:12well in my generation which granted you guys are maybe a little bit younger.
2:19:16Star Wars is on like star like have you heard of Star Wars maybe you haven't seen John Kerry seem to be you know Star
2:19:21Wars is a thing. Maybe you've heard of light sabers maybe you know a Darth Vader look like that's all I'm asking.
2:19:25Right and so and then as you go cause like that's my sort of baseline
2:19:28and you go up like if I'm going to make a Star Wars reference like a well known by say May the Force be with me like
2:19:33What the hell you don't know what you mean by force.
2:19:35Then I'm going to you know and if you're the same age as me
2:19:37and have similar life experience to me I'm going to be surprised
2:19:40and so you always shock me with the things that you don't know through you
2:19:45and references the things on the caliber of
2:19:48and sometimes identical to Star Wars that apparently you didn't see such as I'm not funny if I didn't get it
2:19:54and you didn't get it. Well I mean maybe I did not just until it was remarkable.
2:19:58Then we were like maybe sometimes it isn't.
2:20:00Obviously like yeah yeah whatever Star Wars Force but I would like it right.
2:20:03Not remarkable doesn't it doesn't it doesn't come across as clever but anyway.
2:20:09Start Point your daddy all right I just have to adjust my expectations.
2:20:14Doesn't make you a bad person you have to adjust.
2:20:16I thought when I firmly placed your expectations of me so far down the crapper that they can't even be found anymore.
2:20:22But sometimes you surprise me and I can move you up a few notches
2:20:26and then you just don't get an obvious star as a reference and I was like wow I don't know I mean the over there.
2:20:31Problem when he's getting dragged through the mud you know Mark I'm still here.
2:20:35I think Marco seen Star Wars I have seen so it's been a little while I have to go
2:20:40but I've seen it a number of times like most human beings you know.
2:20:43I've seen all six of them so well when Adam is old enough to start watching star as a Marcos in a few more times.
2:20:50Yeah well I will say I've only seen the episodes two and three I think of only seen those ones in each film
2:20:57or don't worry about those you're not going to even out because in that contest I think.
2:21:02Have you even see them more than once.
2:21:04Yes Unfortunately I'm curious you mentioned earlier that you refused to write the phrase It just works in the review.
2:21:15What is your full list of banned phrases that you want to use I don't know
2:21:19but like you know I mean what you do know what you don't write cliches and if you if you're writing about Apple
2:21:24and you're going to make it it just works comment whether snarkily
2:21:27or Sincerely just if you can say it in some other way
2:21:31and try to do it you know we've read that to mean you know we were at about the same.
2:21:37If you're of the same comics price for a long time you will find yourself inevitably same exact same things
2:21:44and not only other people said that the you have said in the past the constant struggle for me not to write the exact
2:21:48same center three years ago it happens all the time I'll write something
2:21:52and I will go back out that I'll go back to like you know to ten points if you're viewing I'll feel like the exact
2:21:56paragraph is on the same person more or less and if you give me the same input.
2:22:00I tend to produce the same output and I will almost word for word write a sentence I wrote three years ago.
2:22:04Life you know and this is not me than something someone else wrote
2:22:07and so it's a constant struggle to try to say the same things in a fresh and interesting way that lends new insight
2:22:14and doesn't just you know it's that you're snapped a grid with Marco type thing that doesn't just snap to grid
2:22:19and like people mentally scan it just works and it snaps to grid point and then read the words
2:22:25and it's like they're not paying attention anymore so I'm always trying to find some better way to say things.
2:22:30Maybe failing maybe it's more like I'm not I'm not doing it it's not a stunt.
2:22:33Not like you know it's not like I have a silly list that I just like when I'm writing I feel like that
2:22:37when you want to go with real you want to go with it just work because it's just you know after whatever fifteen years
2:22:44of doing this I feel like I don't I don't want to have that crutch. That's fair.
2:22:49All right I'll give you the titles I'm a big fan of raw coconuts barely part of the you just like cattle a lot of
2:22:58when I wrote it.
2:23:00Surrogate information phone is also very good that I also like a lot was Russell tangential although you know I was a
2:23:08tangential
2:23:08but you know well sometimes they're like whatever they're spent a lot of time talking about the Apple event in Yosemite
2:23:15with two big topics and those are about like nature.
2:23:19If we if we add up all the variations the mass and skills on a clear winner.
2:23:23I don't like coconuts but I'm happy with the other two. Actually that's true.
2:23:28I really don't like coke and neither do I
2:23:29but like the title you know you know cannot cook a terrible you know no way and the worst the worst is
2:23:35when you have unexpected cooking out and things that a texture thing I like to taste like taste like paper
2:23:40and it just doesn't taste good.
2:23:42I got toasted coating on the outside of a donut do coconut shrimp is good you know like mountains.
2:23:48It's no you know it's not a great candy but now I like Oh God no unexpressed because when you when you
2:23:55but until the candy or went on some kind of cake it's that's the worst cookie that's the worst I think.
2:24:00That's your thing I feel like I'm going to drink so the texture was removed.
2:24:03No grazing and the texture is terrible but so is the taste. They're both terrible.
2:24:10Your protection doesn't take some getting used to the most people.
2:24:13Again most people born here get used say movies the Pina by which grosses out the rest of the world.
2:24:18Most people around here get used to coke which has weird texture I totally admit than I like where ever the sprite
2:24:28sprite drink.