90: Speculative Abandonware

0:00:00So has it gone so far.

0:00:01Bergeron Well the the prediction that you two had for night one at home would you like to guess if it went as you

0:00:13expected or not at all as expected every hurdle analog right here

0:00:16and here to tell the world tell the world today that didn't come out yet that's out now. I wasn't alive.

0:00:23Oh well that doesn't count you're cheating.

0:00:25Yeah yeah absolutely did OK So Marco did it go as you expected which is to say it went not swimmingly

0:00:31or did Declan surprise everyone and it went pretty much flawlessly.

0:00:37First time home from the hospital and I'm sayin it did not go flawlessly. It was a disaster.

0:00:43Yeah it's simply unrealistic to expect otherwise I mean it's not really his fault that you know zero year olds are

0:00:49pretty rough goes perfectly.

0:00:51You'd be worried that there's something wrong with the baby

0:00:53and we bring them back to it's true get it inspected if you like this not failing to thrive is just easily be all the

0:00:59time. Yeah.

0:01:00Now it's actually funny you say that because you did mention the pediatrician Monday that he was really sleepy

0:01:05and you know we were let him go something like four ish hours overnight because he really didn't wake up to feed

0:01:11and the pediatrician was like oh no not yet.

0:01:14That ain't your thing yet you gotta wake that baby up and so that's what we've been doing

0:01:17and it's been I mean all in all it's actually he's been really good the first night was a disaster because we hadn't

0:01:24yet come to the conclusion that divide and conquer is the answer.

0:01:27And so you know here it is I'm trying to be supportive of Erin who is who is the only one who can actually feed Declan

0:01:33and I'm waking up and just kind of staring at her while she's feeding him not then there's no point me being up

0:01:38but I want to be supportive

0:01:40and it took us until basically the end of that night where I think I said to her Listen he's pissed off you haven't

0:01:46slept in forever. You're the one who actually need sleep right now.

0:01:49You go to bed I'll just entertain him for a couple hours and that's when kind of we had the epiphany that divide

0:01:56and conquer is really the way to do it.

0:02:00The purpose to use staying over the same time in that's like to offer moral support if your wife is to have a person

0:02:07who would resent you if you were sleeping peacefully any other room.

0:02:12But eventually yes you will both get over that because you'll realize either one of us everyone's asleep we have to get

0:02:18over the notion that all suffering must be shared.

0:02:22Which one of us said Adam Samberg was that me or John I did and then you confirmed.

0:02:27We're trying to remember the name of some movie I'm like oh that's the thing with Adam Samberg and you said Yep

0:02:32but I don't know I don't know why I let that slide because I knew it was Andy Samberg

0:02:36but at the line I was any Samberg to it just you know came along anyway in case you're wondering the man's name is Andy

0:02:42Samberg. So everybody was wrong except me.

0:02:45You didn't say anything right didn't make you right but you were you were correct in saying you were not wrong.

0:02:50You should've corrected me in real time so we would have had the saltpeter

0:02:54and real time fall you seem I know who that is or what you were talking about you know who Andy Samberg is come on.

0:03:00You overestimate me. Now I go yet that guy you know you don't know the name. That may be also unlikely.

0:03:09I think you would if you were.

0:03:10If you've ever seen a recent Saturday Night Live not now recent but within the last five ten years recent.

0:03:17If you've seen Brooklyn Nine nine

0:03:19and he's been in a bunch of movies too although there are scaping me off my head so far too lazy Sunday which was a

0:03:28never heard of a written reference that you made was on a boat he's in the on a boat thing I'm on a boat the first time

0:03:33I saw that was

0:03:34when I recorded it to insert into the show last week where I heard about it so I knew roughly what you were talking

0:03:41about but I didn't know anything else about like I had never heard the whole thing.

0:03:47Same thing with going to box like when I came out same people right.

0:03:50Yeah like two weeks earlier something yeah that was like the entire world was obsessed with that

0:03:54and I love I didn't hear it for like six months it was really funny so I got it.

0:04:00It again Andy Samberg is part of a trio called Lonely Island.

0:04:04They're the ones with the I'm On A Boat Song

0:04:07and they came out with an album two three months ago maybe a little more than that

0:04:11and I read a review of it which is weird because I never read album reviews

0:04:15but I read a review of it on like a rolling stone or pitchfork or something hipster

0:04:19and the point that they made about the album was you know it's supposed to be satirical rap in so it's sort of kind of

0:04:27weird Alysha Other Weird Al was deliberately goofy whereas they are more satirical in my personal estimation.

0:04:34Well anyway they said that the problem with the Lonely Island album is that the music is good enough in the writing is

0:04:41good enough that it's not really that satirical after all that.

0:04:45So they totally kind of escape or missed the point of the entire album which was to be satirical

0:04:49and silly so that they accidentally made an album that was just good enough to not be taken as a joke which was their

0:04:54intention. Exactly right. Now it's weird. Should I be a little bit embarrassed that first of all I had never heard T.

0:05:01Pain before

0:05:02but while watching the on the boat video I was like the only music I was actually enjoying wasn't he pay me saying it

0:05:08was actually singing and not just yelling.

0:05:11I'm so not a raft I clearly I mean well the comedy behind it though is that he was auto tuned to death like that was T.

0:05:17Pain's thing was to or at least the charge I knew was that he was like the first person to really embrace audit.

0:05:23Well that's not fair.

0:05:24The first person that everyone everyone realized really embraced auto tune

0:05:28and I think you could argue that many artists such as maybe Britney Spears had embraced auto tune a long time before

0:05:33him. But but yet that's kind of his shtick.

0:05:36And

0:05:36and yeah either way he was definitely the most musical part of that which I was trying to get some kind of musical enjoyment

0:05:43out of it because I'm like well I'm going to listen to something called music.

0:05:46I might as well attempt to extract some enjoyment out of it

0:05:50and that was the only source of any any promise in the whole thing. He didn't like the lyrics at all.

0:05:56I think one verse was kind of funny maybe. But like the holes I was sitting there like this is still going.

0:06:02Like I couldn't believe how long I figured it was like a forty five second S N L skit not made an entire you know three

0:06:10or four minute whatever song out of it.

0:06:11Now it's the real deal that he should have stayed as a as a thirty second to get a you should there's there's a couple

0:06:17of other couple other videos that they've done that are pretty good there.

0:06:22Semi-colon video I thought was pretty awesome

0:06:25and it's all about using semi-colons properly which which I thought was enjoyable something credible is seeing that

0:06:30want to write I don't know that that's a given put in the show notes force market to watch it I have seen nothing even

0:06:37you have to understand any any question that begins with you know. Surely you've seen blank. No you do all day.

0:06:42Yes I sending you more links.

0:06:44Seriously you soon don't actually watch them make TIFF press your little hand on the mouse button

0:06:49and the other mentally switching to Chrome to make flash work to play it and not worth.

0:06:58When I had my music open my chrome ghetto it's just not worth it.

0:07:01Well what do you mean pause your music you're listening to Phish that's not music because your knowing is open you're

0:07:07only open your flash ghetto etc Anyway what else is going on. What did what did Wall receive P.

0:07:13Tell us John at the Cullen pick Ryan tweeted to say that the last show was talking about they were using bundles for

0:07:22upgrades.

0:07:22A concept we discussed long ago

0:07:24and last week's show we posted I hope the link is in the show it's of a screenshot of this actually happening in the

0:07:31store

0:07:31and I mention the scenario where it could actually be more expensive to get a second app as part of an upgrade bundle

0:07:38then it would be reduced by the second half on its own

0:07:40and convert into say that apparently the store now forbid you from purchasing a bundle if it would be cheaper for you

0:07:47to buy the the other apps like individually so I guess that's one workaround to this problem with bundle pricing

0:07:56but so thanks for the read to me and complicated like people.

0:08:00I don't know the mess looks like that in tests that I didn't have a scenario where I don't have a bundle

0:08:03and I could try it out but what does it say to you Don't you understand why you can't buy this bundle

0:08:08and what you should do instead. And very confusing. Yeah it's very weird.

0:08:13Additionally somebody had asked us for you to explain how you're handling trim support with your new found baby S.S.D.

0:08:23Can you recap what trim is and then talk about what you're doing about it and this is a common question

0:08:28when I mention that I got an S.S.D.

0:08:30Because people who have

0:08:31and it's you know it's a third party as they are sticking it into a mac that never had it didn't ship with an S.S.D.

0:08:37and Ever want to know about term support what am I doing with supporters a bunch of wrinkles.

0:08:42Somebody so trim I don't notice stands for but trim is a command they get sent to an S.S.D.

0:08:49That tells it that a bunch of blocks of data on it are no longer being used so the S.S.T.

0:08:55Is free to sort of reclaim them for future use in the sounds weird was like why would you need this

0:08:59and this is the one she's on disk and has to do with the way disks are addressed by computers

0:09:05when he used the Unix parlance it's like a block addressable device whereas just this device hanging out there

0:09:12and you and you said addressing and bytes you can President blocks like you know whatever four K. or Whatever.

0:09:17Actually that's not only end blocks were going to forget about the block thing they risk having this contrary a

0:09:23constraint on that as well. You know because this file system blocks and there's the black dresses.

0:09:29Yeah now we're getting into file system so

0:09:31when you're addressing a disk you have to write a file system two in the file system as the structures that you put on

0:09:37it to keep track of where reading is so you have a little index over here on the disk going to write it like a little

0:09:42tree or something and this is going to look up where the files are

0:09:46and then you know there's a whole bunch of different techniques depending on the thousand to find where all the pieces

0:09:49of this file as a big long continuous string probably not probably there's a bunch of pieces

0:09:54and then a pointer to another bunch of pieces and a pointer to another bunch of pieces

0:09:57and you've got blocks a direct you to other blocks.

0:10:00Got a doubly indirect block in Tripoli indirectly I mean this is all that the realm of the file systems job is to put a

0:10:05bunch of things on disk structure so we can find the data and

0:10:09when you delete a file on most file systems all you do is go to the little place where you would look up where all the

0:10:14stuff for the file is and you just erase that entry.

0:10:17It's like erasing an entry in the end like the index of a book right.

0:10:21It doesn't touch the actual data that belong to the file the data the blunder the file still sitting there.

0:10:26All you did was a race like the bookkeeping information that the structures in the file system that would tell you

0:10:30where to find that stuff

0:10:32and that's where you can under leak files of people remember undelete utilities back from the DOS days

0:10:36and everything like that because you know

0:10:40when you delete something it doesn't take as long as writing you don't you know overwrite all that is why he isn't the

0:10:44kind of secure do it that's fine for a spinning disk.

0:10:47But for as these are these are a little bit weird everything about memory chips is weird

0:10:51and I don't know this is true of all his days which is why I will go to a little bit.

0:10:55But for in the early days of these

0:10:58and probably still is the case for most of them the way the memory is addressed in the little chips that make up the

0:11:04S.S.

0:11:04D.'s You can't just grab one little sort of block size piece and read and write it

0:11:10when you want to write something you have to write it in a large chunk even if you're just interested in one little

0:11:16piece of it. And furthermore you can't write to a bunch of memory that already has stuff in it.

0:11:23So what you have to do is read that entire gigantic chunk into into some other memory temporarily

0:11:30or race that entire gigantic chunk modify little chunk you want to change in the copy that you made to memory before

0:11:36you raised it and then write the holding back which seems incredibly inefficient

0:11:39or that's the way it has these work for a variety of reasons

0:11:43and that means that even if that space isn't used like even if you are a school entry

0:11:48and that all the files guy DELETED DELETED that five game movie

0:11:51and just erases the little tiny look up table where those five gigs were that five years data still in the chip so the

0:11:56next time you want to write something if it's lands on one of those play.

0:12:00This is where that five year was it can't just go I'm going to write the data there

0:12:03and have to erase it first you can't unlike a spinning disk where you can just write a running spot like writing in an

0:12:09operation he said I don't care where I'm writing just start writing because just enough looks a little magnetic poles

0:12:13in the disk and you're all set.

0:12:14You don't have to erase it for you right but I said not only do you have to raise it before you write

0:12:18but you have to raise this big gigantic block and modify a little bit in the copy that you got

0:12:23and then put the copy back on so the trim command is optimization in the operating system

0:12:28when you delete a little file to the OK I'm going to delete this little entry from the file system

0:12:33but also notice on his command to the to the disk by the way I deleted the entry for this for this file the file has

0:12:38them so you should go and find all the blocks that belong to that thing

0:12:41or tell you where those blocks aren't they the Marchese being freed gives us a chance to erase those blocks so that

0:12:48when something is to be written later it doesn't find itself stumbling onto where you know because there's anybody as

0:12:53the as the has no idea about the file system it is just a big addressable chunk of storage the file system is all

0:12:59something that happens in the realm of the operating system so yes is the has no idea what to file with not to delete a

0:13:04file just obeys commands just stupid you know.

0:13:06Box for the most part so that's why trim is useful because it lets the operating system tell the S.S.D.

0:13:14I deleted the files all the blocks of longer file that were here here here and here.

0:13:18They're not used anymore so when you get a chance maybe in some idle time erase those because later

0:13:22when you need to write something you can have some freshly response message by the way want to reason that says these

0:13:26are the early ones would slow down

0:13:29when they are full because that would mean that the number of places that you can write like the places that are raced

0:13:33in an array state would go down because you know the is almost full So any time I needed to write anything

0:13:39and have to read an entire junk back erase the entire thing modify a little bit write a back there wasn't any fresh

0:13:43sort of Greenfield to put stuff in.

0:13:46So here's the thing with trim Apple I believe supports trim on most of it us is easy to build

0:13:51and most of all I don't know the situation is now I think maybe all of them

0:13:56but it doesn't support trim for third party Estes. No so I bought a third party S.S.D.

0:14:03If you go do the System Information application in Yosemite.

0:14:06You can you know select your little eighty a bus or south of us where everything is on and it also trims support yes

0:14:13or no

0:14:14and mine says no so people are asking hey did you use this thing called Trim enablers all matches the lock system extension

0:14:20type things that will force the operating system to enable the trim command even addresses the is not one supplied by

0:14:25Apple as some people have been doing in past versions of the O.

0:14:29Us but Yosemite will not load the kernel extension that has not been signed

0:14:34and to sign a kernel extension here is we need to build it yourself you need to sort of have the source code

0:14:38or something and compile it.

0:14:40But Apple does not release the source code to it's part of the called Age the advanced hosts something interface which

0:14:46you get that suddenly invents host controller interface.

0:14:49Apple doesn't release the source code to those to that driver for O S ten.

0:14:55So third parties can't make their own drivers and sign them

0:14:59and load them all they can do is attack they were doing before

0:15:01but you Samuel basically refused to load kernel extension that isn't signed so the only way to get criminal work in

0:15:08Yosemite is to turn off the thing that says I will only load signed kernel extensions which is not a great thing to do

0:15:15because it is a good security feature in it like a virus

0:15:18or malware can't throw a kernel extension into your system like even if it gets like a temporary root access to that

0:15:23tricks you into entering your local password and writes a kernel extension somewhere and you know any routed

0:15:27or whatever the system will not load a kernel extension as unsigned if they signed it.

0:15:32Presumably it's signed with an apple developer idea to have some contact information like they could find the

0:15:36responsible parties like if someone goes to the effort to make a malware with the same kernel extension always Apple

0:15:42would have some recourse to find out who these people are because presumably their whatever their authentication

0:15:45methods of determining if you're a real person or giving you a developer ID

0:15:49and they also revoke your certificate invalidate that and do all sorts of other things I would do it.

0:15:53So this is a very long winded and possibly taken slightly take really an accurate way of getting to it.

0:16:00Russian which was am I doing this thing am I am I using trim unable

0:16:04or am I disabling the kernel extension signing in Yosemite or checking for kernel extended fingers in your sanity

0:16:11and the answer is No And the reason I'm not doing it one is that I don't really like the idea of bypassing the security

0:16:19feature in Yosemite even though it wasn't there.

0:16:21Previous ones are just like why would I do that unless every then that leads to the second reason which is until

0:16:28and unless I see performance problems with my S.S.D. and Those performance problems are solved by enabling trim.

0:16:34I'm not going to even consider doing this like Otherwise I'm going to wait until there's a problem.

0:16:40And of sudden I feel like the used to be really fast but now it's getting slow

0:16:43and that that leads to the final nuance in that as these have on them like they see a little computer that manages the

0:16:49storage of man just like the right leveling and all sorts of other things because you can only read

0:16:53and write flash certain number of times for it wears out

0:16:55and these are over provision depending on if they're like an enterprise as the consumer S.S.D.

0:17:00They give you more storage and you think you have to wear leveling will use up sections

0:17:04and there's a complicated little computer in there managing the chips

0:17:08and the complexity of what's going on inside an S.S.D.

0:17:11Is increasingly divorced from the view of that from the operating system as just a simple box of bits that you can

0:17:17address.

0:17:19And so the assumptions about trim that you have to tell the thing to trim because otherwise it's going to be

0:17:23inefficient or whatever it's not the F A Z knows where the deleted files are

0:17:28but it's more like what's going on inside that S.S.D. It's like the operating system can't know better than the S.S.D.

0:17:35when and How it needs to to do its work because in the grand scheme of things you're going to have to erase that.

0:17:41That the blocks of the block that five year about hard before you write to him anyway.

0:17:44And maybe it's better to do it soon rather than later like send a germ command

0:17:50and tell that as a day to get rid of it during an idle period of ever

0:17:52but the operating system can just send that as the suggestion is for all all for all it knows it has the read from

0:17:58command and filed it away in a queue somewhere.

0:18:00Doesn't do it for a long time

0:18:01or maybe doesn't do it ever because actually it turns out there was another eye operation address the same thing

0:18:05and validates the tram

0:18:06and whatever so I don't know the interview did you know what's going on inside as these he did

0:18:11but I do know that the storage management iness these has been changing a lot so I'm not entirely sure whether trim is

0:18:18as necessary as that used to be I think it probably still is useful in most benchmarks bear out that if you don't

0:18:24enable train you have serious problems especially when storage gets tight.

0:18:27But anyway I am what I'm doing is living Yosemite's kernel extension signal strength in the way it is

0:18:34and if I find that my system is going slow I will follow the instructions which we'll put in the show notes the very

0:18:40scary process of disabling kernel extension signature checking

0:18:43and using Terminator so I've had on my work MacBook Pro I've had a third party S.S.T.

0:18:52Since I received the machine in you know of this one. Well it's a right. Yes Gina twenty twelve.

0:19:01I did not knowingly do anything to to enable

0:19:05or disable term support in the thing still screams YES WAY faster than a spinning disk right.

0:19:11Mark Marco Have you ever been able Tremont any of your various third party as a state.

0:19:15No I always have just forgotten to do that.

0:19:18I mean one thing I always I mean this is now almost ancient history but when S.S.

0:19:24D.'s were first getting to consumer stuff and they were getting popular the sand force controllers came out

0:19:30and became a big splash because before this election I think before trim existed as a command that you could send.

0:19:39Basically you know certain entities that do things kind of the dumb way

0:19:41and would have to you know they would fill up

0:19:44and then they would have that have whatever it's called like the rightful

0:19:47and whatever whatever that's right degradation I think it's called right amplification where we all you just wanted to

0:19:52write one little thing but it turns out would you have had to erase a huge swath really huge swath modify

0:19:57and write it yourself right. It was like after the S.S.B. Was.

0:20:00Once as you described earlier like after it was ever filled up

0:20:02and all right over time what it would then be slower than that initial that anyway.

0:20:07So Sand Force was a controller company they made those little computers on the other cities to figure out where to put

0:20:13things and how to write things and they figured out various techniques

0:20:16and optimizations to basically avoid that problem

0:20:19and minimize that problem without trim support just by like how they would spread the rights around

0:20:24and how they would buffer them and things like that.

0:20:26Various tricks I don't know I don't know all the details

0:20:28but so I would just I would always just buy Sand Force controller as S.D.S.

0:20:33Because I knew you know first trim didn't even exist and then when it did

0:20:38when it was added Macs didn't support it at all.

0:20:40First and then

0:20:42when Apple did finally add support for it in the US it would only work on these white with the disks which end

0:20:47and I didn't have any of them.

0:20:49So for all of my third party other cities I just I bought I didn't really need term support and just never

0:20:56and never bothered trying to hack my way into enabling it.

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0:23:53Mr Syracuse could you tell us about the source list and opacity and Yosemite.

0:24:00There's an old city back from owner complaining about just some of the transparency stuff in the sidebars

0:24:06and all it has is from Robert Cooper and he was sending a note maybe you can talk about this

0:24:10or I don't know that you can choose for the sourceless to be opaque programatic way if you're writing an application

0:24:16can we talk about this or any sounds familiar I don't think we did

0:24:20and we're talking about it again I think he's a developer for Skype because he says in one of his tweets we've chosen

0:24:25to do that in Skype seven I haven't operated seven so I haven't seen it yet

0:24:29but I think they say that they chose to make the sidebar opaque and got seven.

0:24:34This I mean that you can permanently do it yeah of course and you are permitted to do anything right here.

0:24:39Yeah you know you know you had the example sources you could fake it if you want to but it's nice to see the option

0:24:43but the important thing about the transparency in Yosemite is what the defaults are for applications that were compiled

0:24:50and built before you somebody even shipped that they can end up with like you know like Outlook twenty eleven.

0:24:56They can ship with the hundred thousand sidebar they had no idea they were ever going to have a transition sidebar

0:25:01and here they are running on your seventy with friends a sidebar that they never planned on having

0:25:06and those default show how dedicated Apple is not like hey we're going to have this new feature

0:25:10and if you want to use it just you know flip this little bit in this A.P.I.

0:25:13When you make this call and you get a transition sidebar not the opposite everybody into it.

0:25:18Which is a bold move

0:25:20and you know I don't particularly like it because I think the apps that never meant after experiencing cyber is a

0:25:25little weird and even the ones that want to have it sometimes don't look great.

0:25:30We've talked about that for a fact about at length on this broadcast

0:25:34and the talk show so reference those up so if you don't hear more whining about transparency in Yosemite that's what do

0:25:41we want to finally clear out this Game Cube controller followup that spent in a heart show notes for an eternity.

0:25:47Sure this is from someone named Rich long ago I was discussing the Game Cube controller

0:25:54and the adapter though if you use a game controller with it we you so you can play Smash Bros I was in.

0:26:00Side of that the adapter would also let you play any other game that use the program troll or for that we you

0:26:05but I was not the case and I was sad about it

0:26:08and I was mentioning it was because I thought it was pretty damning evidence against the program troll of the broken

0:26:14rollers the traditional looking and troll there were two analog sticks and buttons

0:26:18and triggers you know a typical looking in troll or that Nintendo made for you specifically.

0:26:23And yet when Smash Bros came out they offered this adapter for the games you control

0:26:28and I'm saying like if they if the program was really any good intend it would not have felt the need to make an

0:26:34adapter.

0:26:35Rich was writing in to clarify

0:26:39or to clarify the games you control was there just because Smash Bros players are addicted to it

0:26:45and because it's wired instead of wireless if you're not using the waiver and I know this

0:26:50but it's worth it's worth pointing out why I still think it's evidence of the probing troll

0:26:55or not is not fulfilling its job like.

0:26:57If Nintendo's going to make a new traditional looking controller they should make something that is satisfactory to all

0:27:05but the hardest of hard core smash brother players

0:27:08and this you know Apple's not going to make an adapter just for people who compete internationally as tournaments

0:27:15there's just not enough of those people in the entire world this adapter is for the wide range of people who play Smash

0:27:20Brothers

0:27:20and it's basically Nintendo admitting that even if you're not a professional Smash Brothers player we understand that

0:27:25the probe for a controller is not is not is not better than the game controller So here you go we're actually going to

0:27:32make a peripheral and advertise it and sell it to regular people

0:27:35and reissue the game to control the Smash Bros logline

0:27:38and again this is not a product that is only for competitive smash brother players they're going to sell way more of

0:27:43them than just the people who can confirm it.

0:27:46Obviously to the people who be in tournaments yet this product is for them they want to wire the need reaction times

0:27:51they want to control the use for a long time so and so forth

0:27:54but I still feel like if Nintendo had made the way you program troll or so that it was.

0:28:00Quizzically unassailably better than the game cumin troll or

0:28:04and was perceived as such by customers it would not have felt the need to make a mass market product like this so you

0:28:10can use your game controller smash bros again and I agree with them and I agree with popular opinion.

0:28:16The program trailer is very well made but I think the layout

0:28:20and the shape are not as good as the game controller except of course the D.

0:28:25Pad which is extra ball and everybody hates

0:28:28but that's why the game controller is not perfect is that the only reason that and the triggers are not great

0:28:34and of course is evil and that every expert you know if they could.

0:28:37That's part of the triggers the triggers are passable you can get by with them the triggers has something to recommend

0:28:43them and but they're not that great but the main control the using games thumbstick buttons.

0:28:50Like that's what you have your hand on the left thumb isn't some secure at the moment hitting a bunch of buttons the

0:28:54Game Cube trailer is the current peak of controller design from intend controller design as far as I'm concerned.

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0:32:05All right so we're actually in two main topics only thirty thirty five minutes into the show this might be a record for

0:32:13us for the last couple months. I'm very proud of us.

0:32:15Well let's talk about this Microsoft band of which I have not had time to read anything about outside of listening to

0:32:21underscore David Smith's podcast about it or a pike S.F. Assert about it which we'll put in the show knows.

0:32:27So what do you guys tell me what this is about. Not everyone at once. Yes in America.

0:32:34No I haven't actually I only saw people talking about it

0:32:38but I don't know anything about it except that it looks like what appears to be a pretty decent wearable for an

0:32:43ecosystem that nobody's going to use.

0:32:45I've seen him play with a couple minutes

0:32:47and so I can't really talk about the usage of it although I underscore had a good post about his usage of it like why

0:32:52he bought one and what he thinks of it

0:32:54and we'll link that up an assurance if you want to get sort of a hands on experience of using it I'm just sort of play

0:32:58with it and I was looking at it from a hardware perspective

0:33:00and there is this great sort of you know exploded view diagram at Microsoft dot com slash Microsoft type and band.

0:33:09If you scroll to the very bottom of the page as well animation that shows how it's constructed

0:33:13and it's is an interesting take on on how to get all the hardware they want into a band type shape so this thing is

0:33:22aiming for it's kind of weird like it's not going to be like a full full fledged little computer on your wrist to the

0:33:28same degree. Apple Watch is in that they don't expect you to do much on the screen much interacting in two D.

0:33:36Like the screen is very long and thin.

0:33:38So it's kind of a one dimensional device where useless lighting white right and left but there's not a lot of up

0:33:44and down does not even a lot of like hitting the top button or the bottom buttons a lot of like little side bars

0:33:49and swiping to the sides

0:33:50and showing a little half a half a little letter poking off the other side of the screen so you know there's more over

0:33:55there is you know which direction you know typical Windows Phone style Metro Uighur type.

0:34:01So in that respect it's not like the Apple Watch where you've got the studio thing

0:34:05and you could have different sets of buttons and a dial and all of her things like that.

0:34:09But unlike the Apple Watch for example this does have a G.P.S.

0:34:13Built in so you can go for a jog with it without having your phone with you to do the G.P.S.

0:34:17Part of like tracking where your original route was and everything that is so smart.

0:34:21Yes but you sense like you know who's going to have a Windows Phone to join up

0:34:24but it does have all the sensors are a lot of the same sensors as the band

0:34:28but it is an interesting thing where instead of the sensors for like your pulse

0:34:32and everything like that being underneath the sort of chunky top part of the watch they've split that start up stuff up

0:34:37so the sensors are sort of like inside your wrist like where you take your pulse

0:34:41and the screen is on the outside of your wrist where you look at your watch which is an interesting way to keep the

0:34:47thing on top because they don't have to have the sensors there

0:34:49but that means that the bottom of the watch sort of the part where class together has a lump a lump at the bottom of

0:34:54the strap is going us where the sensors are and then to find a place to smuggle I think I can tell from the diagram

0:35:00but I assume this is where the smuggling the batteries they put the batteries in the sides of the band they have little

0:35:05stiff regions on the sides of the band left

0:35:07and right side of the band that are curved occur plastic that doesn't bend

0:35:11and inside there I'm assuming are a little battery packs or something.

0:35:14Because otherwise I don't know where they're repairing the battery.

0:35:16What that means is the shape of this watch the shape of this band is kind of like a square as a stiff rigid screen on

0:35:23the top there's a stiff rigid sensor bundle on the bottom and the left and right side is the sort of curved

0:35:29but still rigid regions and tween that there's a little bit of flexing

0:35:33and the the clasp that it just has like a little groove about an inch long groove that you can sort of slide it along

0:35:39in the groove in whatever point the groove you want to just release the thing into a clause gravel in the group so

0:35:44there is some size adjustability I think they offer the actual band in three sizes because this is not like the Apple

0:35:49Watch where it's like a little computer and then a flexible band that you can adjust the length right.

0:35:56This computer is essentially all around your wrist this is a very much more.

0:36:00Like what I was thinking although not a quite a delegate about what I was thinking of in terms that you could take

0:36:04advantage of the band to let you have more room to put hardware but Apple has made a very different choice here

0:36:10and I think the biggest violin with these products is not like oh my gosh our band as U.B.S.

0:36:14Of the magazine band has to work with all sorts of other phones who can just work with Windows Phone because it's like

0:36:19a partisan ecosystem there's no one no one is into I think the big difference is that Microsoft's band is so clearly

0:36:24not going for anything having to do with fashion.

0:36:27An Apple Watch is so clearly focused on fashion at least half of its you know the effort of that product is of course

0:36:35we're not going to make it like all one colour

0:36:37and computer we looking into have lumps we're going to make something look like jewelry

0:36:40and we're not going to bring the band because that's supposed to be decorative interact with the device should be

0:36:44decorative the band should be doctored the entire thing is to be decorative because it's a fashion accessory.

0:36:49Mega subband is absolutely not a fashion accessory in any way

0:36:53and that way perhaps it plays more to Microsoft's strengths because they've never been known to be a particularly

0:36:59fashionable brand but anyway I think the really interesting design choice for Microsoft

0:37:06and I'm excited by the fact that this wasn't like a demo is like you know C.D.'s

0:37:10or something that never actually ships or that ship for a year is a product that no one knew about

0:37:14but they announced and said Here it is you can go buy it.

0:37:17So I give this this product

0:37:19and the effort from Microsoft a big thumbs up in the same way that it kind of didn't like the whole Windows Metro's

0:37:24things up over they kind of they're doing their own thing they're not trying to copy Apple they're not being Samsung

0:37:30and their own thing is actually pretty cool

0:37:32and I hope this has more more success in the market let's say the you know the various device like Windows Phone

0:37:38and the US with the Metro interface.

0:37:41If I was into fitness which is is pretty far from the truth then I would I would buy this I think no question because

0:37:48I'm not into sadness. I don't have much of a use for it but I kind of like some of the tradeoffs they have made.

0:37:56Why do you say just because you're not into fitness. This seems used. Most of you.

0:38:00Well I'm not going to use Windows Phone.

0:38:02I mean it does it doesn't integration with I I saw the same it doesn't really read underscores thing about it like it's

0:38:07kind of a preview I'm assuming you're not using with a Windows on the zen like it's it's like a one way communication

0:38:12is not two way because it's not completely form integrated

0:38:16but he's getting the experience of being able to be notified on his wrist a little showbiz in the occasions

0:38:21when he compared to he divided the fitness bands I mean to summarize his post here for longer than just reading it

0:38:25aloud on the air but he's divided them into like the ones that are just always with you

0:38:29and track information like the fit bits

0:38:31and those necessarily you know they focus on just long battery life it's just a sensor attached to you

0:38:36but there's not much interaction with it are you not flitting around the screen

0:38:39and then there are the ones that have screens but those have been like I have to be sleepy all the time.

0:38:43I can't really do anything like a pebble or it's like Wake me up when you want to use me

0:38:47and use me through some limited interface because I take a lot of energy to do all this stuff

0:38:52and then I'll go back to sleep Slavin E.

0:38:53Ink screen or a very limited screen or they're not awake a lot of time

0:38:57and this is kind of the same category as like a combination of the two.

0:39:01All the fitness centers are there I don't know the battery life

0:39:04and the thing is by the way it all up in a sense are there I can do the persistence of things

0:39:07but it's also like these other devices where you can use it as a little computer I think does communicate with your i

0:39:11was device at least in one direction to show you notifications and stuff

0:39:14and it underscores that it's basically this convinced him that he'll really like the Apple Watch with the Apple Watch

0:39:19will be two way communication and I guess he won't care they have watches have G.P.S.

0:39:23Because that's not again he's not into a fitness type thing. The Apple Watch will count your steps.

0:39:28That's all you care about if you want to map your route then you have to run with your your i Phone

0:39:32but I totally think the lack of G.P.S.

0:39:34In the Apple Watch is like three generations away from being a moot point because they'll go at it since they can

0:39:39afford to do it with battery power I think that's optimistic

0:39:42but there is not picking on you Marcus because I think this is basically a pebble but better done and with a G.P.S.

0:39:50and I don't view it building on what underscore and John were just saying I don't view it as just a fit with a G.P.S..

0:39:57I view it more as a pebble with a G.P.S.

0:40:00And my understanding of what I heard on developing perspective was it uses the same sort of A P I's that for example

0:40:06will let you rule that I drive uses in your car so that you can read your text messages on the screen if you set it up

0:40:13appropriately. So just like John was saying it's all one way.

0:40:16You know it all it's doing is saying hey you just got a text message and here's a text message

0:40:20and there's not much you can do to respond to it.

0:40:23On on the band I was called or watch

0:40:26but nevertheless at least you can see something there yet meaning in the trial because I I am also curious just to see

0:40:33like what is the actual real life utility of such a device.

0:40:36But that being said I mean we're going to we're going to be getting watch kit this month supposedly So I think I think

0:40:43this might just be for i OS developers

0:40:45and I was fans this might just be a temporary distraction for the next five months until we have a watch.

0:40:51Well now to score being his typical super industrious self is like he's got to get this so he knows that the utility is

0:40:58so he can create his fleet of watch out right

0:41:01and how this man possibly like there may be more than one of any of us checked to see if well I don't know how he does

0:41:06as much as always the same guy way because he could be like one of seven identical anyway.

0:41:13You could be a clone is what I'm saying

0:41:16but this gives him a chance to see what kind of applications would be good on this device

0:41:20and he sort of using it so that

0:41:21when the avalanche comes along he will know he will have a top ten list of the applications he's going to make.

0:41:26Well Casey still thinks about getting his best X.

0:41:29For ourselves what kind of you didn't feel shame about not updating past X.

0:41:34Don't feel shamed over gets beat you feel shame to during a time

0:41:36or guess of being developed underscore probably made seven apps like everyone else look bad you know.

0:41:44And that's really funny

0:41:45and you're right I mean if I had just a pool of money to just sit it just sitting there for me to waste away on silly

0:41:52devices I would absolutely buy one of these just to try it out

0:41:56and it definitely looks well I should say it looks cool in it.

0:42:00A feature set seems very neat to me like you were saying John it's not aesthetically the most pleasing thing the world

0:42:06it certainly doesn't look bad either. And I'm curious to see what comes of it.

0:42:11But only time will you know it's too bad that because it's Microsoft everyone just kind of fluffs it off immediately

0:42:19because as a friend of the show Ben Thompson saying the chat a minute ago you know the old Microsoft Microsoft this is

0:42:26kind of a new Microsoft it's really trying.

0:42:28And John you were you're talk about this really really trying to do something different and unique

0:42:31and a lot of times I think they hit the nail really close to the head than anyone gives him credit for.

0:42:38And so it's kind of a bummer to me that that nobody's really given them any credit from what I can tell.

0:42:45Well it that's not really the problem the problem isn't isn't credit. The problem is action.

0:42:49So it's the same thing that happened with web Oh S. Same thing happening with Windows Phone.

0:42:55Webber Webber last round of money that's on Microsoft's from well well that's why it's so the same thing happened where

0:43:01the geeks like us and maybe the tech press you know these things come out

0:43:05and they were like oh you know what this is really interesting everyone's interesting but this is really progressive

0:43:11or you know some word that means like this is cool.

0:43:15But then the conclusion is but I don't want it or this is great I love this

0:43:21but I'm not going to buy this instead of an i Phone And so I think this is going to have the same kind of problem which

0:43:27is you have this device for Microsoft right before this you know probably big device from Apple right.

0:43:36So you have this device from Microsoft that we're looking at now and saying this is really interesting.

0:43:43This might be really interesting there you know this is it they're doing a good job.

0:43:47But how many people who say this are going to be using one of these in a year instead of an apple watch.

0:43:53Well they have the same problem as Apple of old did where at a certain point it becomes like no matter what.

0:44:00All did it was always like yeah but that's just Apple.

0:44:03So like who cares like exactas and they like it's interesting or whatever

0:44:08but you know come on real computers use Windows like it's a side show you're not interested in once you kind of get out

0:44:13of that position once people start thinking of you as not not part of the mainstream not part of like the real thing.

0:44:22Then it's really difficult to ever to ever jump back up in the previous position where did you get people to like say

0:44:29I'm actually going to buy that because it starts to feel like I'm not going to buy a Mac. I'm a P.C.

0:44:34Guy Macs don't run the programs that I want to not familiar with how they work it just everything builds on top of

0:44:39everything

0:44:39and it becomes insurmountable the only way Apple itself out of it was with these spectacular flashy products initially

0:44:45flashy in ways they really weren't that's a you know substantial of like you know using fashion again why why do people

0:44:50care of the IMAX was just a computer like it was an OK Computer It wasn't a bad computer

0:44:53but he got to the i Macs were not all that impressive.

0:44:57It was because it was peeling translucent cooling and that's why the emigrant

0:45:00and the i Pod was then making a product that had already existed

0:45:04but doing it so much better than the other ones like and so is this so much better than the Apple Watch No it's not.

0:45:08So it's not going to do that for them

0:45:10but they must feel like Microsoft must feel like Apple did where it's like we're making good stuff like it's not bad

0:45:16it's good are usually sometimes it's the best or it's close

0:45:20and yet why is our reward not proportional to the quality of the programming.

0:45:24If we're making something it's like a present as good as something like and we get no market share

0:45:28and it just it just seems like it's not fair and so I feel for them

0:45:33but you know on the other hand I was you know a little bit of glee about the fact that they're in the position that I'm

0:45:40trying to hold a grudge like everything going for them but then

0:45:43when I think about ring to them like you know what if they if they got control they would just start making products I

0:45:48don't like again

0:45:49or make me sad you know you set a goal if we make a part of the eighty percent is good then it's just a market share

0:45:53and the problem is like something like this I think most people are going to have one wrist wearable at most most.

0:46:00Zero but but you know I think that the most Somebody will have is likely to be one

0:46:05and so the question is like not only is this good enough to buy

0:46:09but is this good enough to buy instead of the Apple Watch.

0:46:13And that's always that's the problem like most people don't carry two cell phones.

0:46:16Most people carry ones at least that they buy themselves most of the carry one cell phone most of them and then a P.C.

0:46:22but It was like a P.C.

0:46:23Was like a two thousand dollar investment you don't replace it every two years these type of devices are small enough

0:46:27and there's enough like advancement in the field they do like for a lot of people would try the i Phone or try

0:46:33and reduce my two year contract up like this and subsidize training

0:46:36but it just feels like it's it's not as big of a commitment to get back to what you said earlier about the ecosystem

0:46:42where you might feel like one of my what am I buying into here.

0:46:45Do I have faith that this is going to be a supported product line for the future

0:46:48or is this going to be like a one off

0:46:50or you know what was that Courier project that they had with like member that was like a tablet that open up like a

0:46:55book and they can that for it even got out the door.

0:46:58So it seems like Microsoft may not may be kind of a hostile environment to innovation at this point

0:47:03or they can mow that other one they made.

0:47:05Yeah like the social smartphone platform that they made like two of those from the side to guys and they died

0:47:10and then canned it like Microsoft needs to work on their not so much execution

0:47:15but hard times the products are like have something to recommend them but just like the decision about

0:47:20when to release it when to announce it and whether this is going to be using you follow through with

0:47:24and if it's not going to be then you fall through it like don't don't release the can line on the hopes like hey who

0:47:29knows maybe we'll take it off but we probably don't think it will it is actually kind of a crappy product

0:47:33and really did a kind of a half assed launch and then

0:47:35when it doesn't catch on like you know I do week later I says can the whole thing

0:47:38or a courier which is short of people people get excited about

0:47:40and then just say well you know let's just get rid of that you know like I know a couple who are excited

0:47:45but we don't really like it and don't show it like all the other things that Apple tries out internally

0:47:49and gets rid of we never hear about those That's what you have to do it you really really have to pick what they're

0:47:55going to do do it really well put the company behind it. And not do these things.

0:48:02Look it's actually interesting you said that they go away

0:48:05or kind of tumble out the door half heartedly enter cancelled like

0:48:09when was the can canceled like people like two months was very soon

0:48:13and you know in terms of that in show carrier that it just leaked.

0:48:16Oh that's also I mean it's part of the same drama that you show it

0:48:19or whether it leaks like if we need to not know about it

0:48:21when it is NOT have pictures of it I mean to not you know for all of the various like T.V.

0:48:27Products and tablet products

0:48:28and all the watch prototypes that Apple made like we got the first thing we got to see out of Apple that was like a

0:48:32watch type thing with the watch and they said they were going to make it.

0:48:35We did and we haven't seen all whatever crazy T.V.

0:48:37Stuff that they've tried and not released that we just assume is going on there.

0:48:42Apple's much better about deciding which products are good enough to go out the door

0:48:46and once a product does go out the door giving it a fair shot and putting the full weight of the company behind it

0:48:52and so we'll see if band gets that from Microsoft really quick aside.

0:48:56While I don't know if either of you guys have seen much of this but watching the N.F.L.

0:49:01These days is just a series of face palms because everywhere you see these bright blue Microsoft Surface tablet

0:49:12and it's so obvious that it's like a print product placement is one thing

0:49:18and I know it's a thing it happens everywhere and how Apple does it constantly but I don't know maybe I am biased

0:49:25but it just seems to me that it's done in a much more subtle way like I'm thinking of house for example you would see

0:49:30Macs all over the place but it was subtle. Whereas with the N.F.L.

0:49:35It's like here's the bright blue surface and there's a row of bright blue surfaces on the commentator staff Cindy.

0:49:42Here it is on the sidelines and on the Microsoft Surface they're reviewing the play right now

0:49:46and it's just so tacky to me.

0:49:49You had a similar problem in the most recent season on Netflix of Parks

0:49:52and Recreation where like it was which is not a very good season actually

0:49:55but anyway they you know they got some kind of big Microsoft sponsorship and so.

0:50:00In previous seasons everybody had i Phones and stuff. This season every computing device you see is a Microsoft device.

0:50:07Every character is carrying a Windows phone and using it proudly like holding up constantly

0:50:12and every computer that you see on the desk is it is a surface or at least running Windows eight

0:50:17and it's always like showing the Windows eight home screen prominently and

0:50:21and like you know it so that you have all these like screens and you have Microsoft in your face

0:50:24and it's like a good product placement should be both unnoticeable and plausible.

0:50:31Yeah yeah exactly and you know what you're saying what the N.F.L.

0:50:34Is that also it violates both these things like you shouldn't notice that they're beating you over the head with this

0:50:39one particular type of product.

0:50:41It should just seem like oh like I just kind of see people subconsciously

0:50:45and it seems like everyone's using Apple products amongst our products and the cool people or something like that

0:50:49but it's supposed to do

0:50:50and you're not supposed to notice a wow they're really beating me over the head with this one kind of product. And B.

0:50:57This is so unrealistic because in reality I know for a fact that these things are not good enough

0:51:03or popular enough that all these people would naturally have them you know

0:51:07and the chat room is going to Zircon we would even I was trying to I want to take credit for this I didn't for once I

0:51:12think it's going from the chat room I saw the start and I was with the I.R.S. This is on C.N.N.

0:51:18and The same type deal they have some kind of product placement deal with muggers or services

0:51:22and you can tell it's a service from the back because it sort of has that you know iconic kickstand that they have you

0:51:27know at the back of the service looks like a little thing falls out so it looks like he's all right

0:51:32and so what you see is a series of eagles sitting in front of all the different commentators.

0:51:36But

0:51:37when they have camera shots from the side what you can see here is a lot of the commentators have an i Pad that they're

0:51:42sort of using behind the surface like a shield you know if you can see that they're using the i Pad either is the i Pad

0:51:48is resting against the surface like it actually literally is an easel or they just have an i Pad in their hands

0:51:53and that's not good for Microsoft it's not good at all. It's so bad I don't know it's just you know.

0:52:00Granted I make my living off of Microsoft technologies

0:52:03and so there's there's always going to be a special soft spot in my heart for Microsoft

0:52:08but so much of what Microsoft does is so cheesy and silly and this is some of it in makes me sad.

0:52:17Passion is not a strong suit as I as Steve Jobs said Taste is not their strong suit.

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0:54:35Thanks a lot will indeed accomplish sponsoring once again. So let's talk about I work twenty thirteen.

0:54:41What we're talking about this. Yeah well OK what else we talked about what did news happen.

0:54:46No I think this is a topic I mean it's not news news but it's one of those things that people complain about

0:54:52and I keep seeing it and they complain so go away

0:54:54and the more I think about it the more it reveals to me something that Apple like something Apple's doing it just

0:55:01doesn't make sense

0:55:02and Quinn to them because the people who are upset about US bashing my get on to something that Microsoft does much

0:55:07better than Apple and I don't really understand why Apple is doing with that view.

0:55:15When you have the new version of our year you know I don't think I have on the Mac.

0:55:19I think probably have and I didn't like freon I.O.'s or comes free with your devices

0:55:23or something like that I think is free everywhere now. Yeah.

0:55:26Anyway it's not about the specific programs which have their problems right.

0:55:31And the file formats are weird but it's about how they're handling backward compatibility

0:55:36and I grabbed this quote from an in for a lark I'm assuming is really accurate

0:55:40but it's not the gist of it is right it's not the details

0:55:44and so the detail of it here is basically if you get the new version of I work you can't open files created with any

0:55:50version of I work earlier than I work I work on nine.

0:55:53If you try to do that I work to techs that you're trying to open a document from something earlier than I was going on

0:55:59and. As you should find a copy of our work around our nine open the file with that instead.

0:56:05And so this is sort of leaving behind your own file format from not that long ago like less than a decade certainly

0:56:12probably you know less than five years ago.

0:56:15Whatever it is those documents can't be opened by the new version and a lot of the time

0:56:22when Apple sort of races forward leaving behind legacy things whether it's you know ditching everything several U.S.B.

0:56:27On the original IMAX or you know dropping support for an A.P.I. or Some hardware they were never like.

0:56:34There's a reason like it helps them to make you know it helps them get ahead of their competition because they're not

0:56:41encumbered by legacy stuff and so they can go

0:56:44and make the new shiny thing without worrying about dragging along with the baggage of backward compatibility because

0:56:50the baggage just gets bigger and bigger especially if you have a successful product in your past.

0:56:55Eventually all your time is spent trying to like support the past instead of worrying about the future so you can never

0:56:59make anything great but I don't see how that philosophy can be

0:57:04or should be applied to file formats because it's not as if we're asking the old file formats be supported forever in

0:57:11their current form.

0:57:12All I think most recently of or asking is if I create a bunch of documents that I work over the years

0:57:17and I get the latest version of my work I just want to be able to open them

0:57:21and I don't care that much that if I open the converts and the new format.

0:57:24As long as it does the conversion it's not lost me like it does look fine in the old version I worked

0:57:29when I converted to the new version though all my fonts are screwed up and everything was broken

0:57:32or whatever you just for file format to build compatibility making new file formats for example one of the reasons I

0:57:39speculated that maybe new file formats that are leagues of archives and stuff is for better compatibility with I.I.S.

0:57:45Because they wanted to unify the code base is fine it's a perfectly valid reason to change the file format

0:57:49and to rev the program

0:57:50and maybe you can argue if it's a good reason to dumb down the feature set to the common set of functionality that can

0:57:56work on i OS on the web and on an i Pad anyway whatever they're going to do that. It's fine.

0:58:01But by not reading the old five thousand for Matz it shows a lack of respect for the work the people done with previous

0:58:07versions of this program especially since probably the pre I worked on versions are going to stop working on modern

0:58:12expertise and that's the thing that Bill does which I think that does have a reason

0:58:15but you have to support the old file format because if you don't what you're say going to people

0:58:19and Apple said this to people in Iraq and also in pretty much everything you've ever done on the web.

0:58:25Do not trust us with your data. Make a bunch of picture galleries in like you know dot Mac.

0:58:31Well those are going to be gone and we switch over to the moldy galleries make a bunch of moldy websites with I web.

0:58:37Oh I was not supporting the more I hope you didn't hope you didn't write too much in your little blog that you made.

0:58:42We're converting over to this thing and by the way there's no way to get that content back out

0:58:45and make a bunch of documents with I work well five years are going to pass

0:58:48and you can't open them up I hope you save version of our a nine which by the way won't run on the computer you buy

0:58:52three years from now.

0:58:54Telling everybody you do not trust Apple with your data because we will abandon it we will race ahead.

0:59:00We will leave behind like I feel so bad for people who like we've got a lot of work and I will Web sites and that tool.

0:59:07What it did was basically give your native mac application a lake.

0:59:10Let people who know nothing about the Web make web pages

0:59:12and put them up on the hosting that was part of your service that you bought was not a very good program.

0:59:17The results are not very nice but the bottom line is people dragged in the pictures and typed lots of words

0:59:21and made a series of posts. And Apple is just like Well sorry that's going away.

0:59:25Hope you have some way to pull that down and back it up or something.

0:59:28I remember that year I was going around to kill my family and trying to find a way to like pull down the file

0:59:34and modify the link so they would still work locally so they can just have a local copy because people invested time in

0:59:39that and Apple has no respect for the time that people spend and I am a file formats.

0:59:43Apple has no respect for the work

0:59:45but in making word processing document so the lesson of teaching everybody is don't use our programs are Web services.

0:59:51If you care about being able to open this thing or view this thing in five or ten years and I think Apple's probably.

1:00:00I work

1:00:00and what is done with the web probably is probably the worst of the big companies like you know Apple Microsoft Amazon

1:00:06or whatever in breaking compatibility with no way for real you know sort of like importer export option

1:00:12or anything like that.

1:00:14I don't I'm angry about it I don't even use I work and by the way I don't work for this and many other reasons.

1:00:20I mean part of the problem. You're definitely right. I agree with everything you said.

1:00:25Part of the problem is bigger than than just this is a bad decision

1:00:29and I work in part that one of the parts of the problem is that Iraq doesn't get a lot of attention from Apple.

1:00:35There's a reason like there was literally no new update from two thousand and nine until two thousand and thirteen

1:00:42and the two thousand thirteen versions were not written during that whole time they were written at the last minute

1:00:48and rushed out the door.

1:00:49There's nothing like to spend a lot of time trying to sync up between theirs

1:00:52and I was very fond of the web version of the mac regime and try to make them all work on the same thing

1:00:56and all work together like that seems like what they put the effort in that's probably not your right a multi-year

1:01:01effort like that but who knows.

1:01:03I don't know what their schedules are like internally

1:01:04but the result was a program that didn't satisfy people because that that synchronization between the platforms sort of

1:01:11dumbed down the applications to the common subset of functionality there or across all of them

1:01:16and people are angry about that and the execution wasn't great

1:01:19but yeah going to just I don't I don't think it's because they didn't put enough effort into it because it seems like

1:01:26an input a lot of resources into or they just they just put them towards the wrong things.

1:01:30Well I mean the I work file formats have always been kind of a disaster so like the first versions of my work before oh

1:01:35nine.

1:01:36They say the everything as a as a MAC bundle which for those who don't know a bundle

1:01:42or a package whatever it's called a package is just a directory with the housing boom guys like special flags to make

1:01:48it into a package. How does that work.

1:01:50Now the finder is the thing that interprets the thing at the bundle

1:01:54but I said no that's classic Michael I believe it's the finder that interprets them as something other than a directory

1:01:59because of you. At them any place else other than the finder.

1:02:02It looks like exactly what it is a directory with a bunch of files in it right so that the first versions of i work

1:02:07there file format was these these fake files which are actually directories full of other files

1:02:13and that causes a lot of problems whenever that file has to leave the mac.

1:02:18Biggest thing is email attachments and secondarily you also can't put them in and upload forms and Web sites

1:02:26and the file input type because those expect single files and these are actually directories

1:02:31and you can imagine that was pretty annoying

1:02:33when you couldn't really email these things around very easily through most email servers or email programs

1:02:38and certainly not through windows at all.

1:02:41If it had to bounce through windows you couldn't email these files around from this office suite of applications like

1:02:46that was a pretty stupid move really. And so then in the later version I think in the own nine version they moved to.

1:02:54I believe it was just like a zip file. It was basically like it was.

1:02:58If you do rescue I file there is a file that was just all that data shoved into this container which is a much better

1:03:03way to do it and then with the new versions I think they didn't move back.

1:03:08I think the new versions they were some kind of have to look this up and write this up and link to it.

1:03:13There were some kind of move it was a it was a move like a step backwards because the justification was this is going

1:03:21to be easier to sync between i O. S.

1:03:23and I Cloud documents and mac and everything because it's because of the structure they've picked.

1:03:28Regardless the file formats of always kind of been a disaster that is changing radically

1:03:34and many times have had very weird decisions

1:03:36and it just seems like it seems like they used the I work team is not getting the resources it needs

1:03:44or that it is not a higher priority for our work to ever be truly great

1:03:49and I use I work I don't use my forever because I hardly ever need Office programs so it's not worth me buying office.

1:03:55You know I just use I work stuff and get away with it just fine and I do use views I work.

1:04:00As my only office suite for I don't know will be six seven years now so it's.

1:04:06I use this you know not not every day but I use it regularly and I know these programs pretty well now

1:04:13and they're just they're always like seventy five percent of the way there and they could be so good

1:04:21but it just seems like they don't get attention from Apple and I think what you're saying is true.

1:04:26It's very fair what you're saying especially about things like you know the little me photo galleries

1:04:31and stuff like that like all the photo stuff that is very valid.

1:04:35I think with I work I think it's mostly just an issue of these apps getting no love from Apple

1:04:43and secondarily them not caring about dropping that ability

1:04:47but like it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were going to write in support for the for the new apps to rebuild

1:04:53formats and it just got cut because they don't have the time because they didn't give this project

1:04:57and of resources from the beginning.

1:04:59Well they have a thing where they put out a version to drop a huge number of features

1:05:03and then kind of back filled apologetically as time allowed.

1:05:06Right yeah that's the that's one thirteen version which is still I think worse than the previous

1:05:13and I don't like I don't use all of these things regularly

1:05:14but I fall people are doing is like you know which used to be like the one the best program

1:05:19and that suite is like ever in those keynote is likely getting worse over time not better

1:05:23and that's something that Microsoft has always done so well.

1:05:25One support backwards compatibility support for their file formats by forever basically like they are the masters of

1:05:32that and you know if you go to that extreme but you should be good at it at least

1:05:35and it's not like my cousin didn't change their formats they went to you know as a file for the X.M.L.

1:05:40Stuff and you know Doc X. An excellent sex and all the stuff like they advanced.

1:05:46But

1:05:46when they advance they tried to be compatible because like that's their big selling point if you make documents in Microsoft

1:05:51Office Michael's office a lot of them are like Office ninety seven came out

1:05:55and like it was a split in form between ninety seven ninety five and people were freaking out or whatever I don't.

1:06:00I'm of the exact details of the years I'm sorry got it wrong

1:06:02but then you know they condition their user base to accept the format will change

1:06:09and feel safe that not likely documents are going to become unreadable

1:06:13and Apple's doing a diff the opposite their conditioning all the users to fear

1:06:18and to not trust any important data to it

1:06:20and the other thing Microsoft has done with a few bumps in the road like you know Word six of the mac an old saw that

1:06:25terrible stuff.

1:06:27They tend to make their programs better with time to program to get faster documents open faster they have more

1:06:32features they wouldn't like if one version of a program had really interesting typographic controls the next version

1:06:39the program were not drop all those features because like they're not possible I us are camped on the web

1:06:44or something like that would never do that there's no there's no major regression in functionality without some good

1:06:50reason like Oh we're we're definitely in the Access database so forget about that whole integration like you know

1:06:55but just just like hey this this thing adds a new ability to tweak the kerning on text in the next versions of yeah you

1:07:03know like earning stuff forget it we to be pulled it out it's gone

1:07:05and if you're going to talk you know that a custom kerning we're just going to show it a different way.

1:07:09Like that's not progress.

1:07:11Over time the reason will of software as it gets better faster stronger you know it does not sort of stumble along OK

1:07:19linkages that you then relied on disappear with no explanation.

1:07:22File formats get abandoned the navigation changes it looks in ways that are seem like a lateral moves items move around

1:07:30the interface for no discernible reason that is the web version you don't care about like other any like rabbit I work

1:07:37fans with the possible exception of Keynote which I think did I read advance

1:07:40and may still have them the rest of our just like.

1:07:46You know what's funny is this wasn't listening to what Mark of it said about how I work you know eighty percent of the

1:07:51way there I feel like so many of the things you just said about I work you could make a reasonable substitution of say

1:07:59I. A cloud or any number of other Apple software products.

1:08:04Heck even I was saved a lot of people I mean I I think I will say that's fine

1:08:08but you know yeah I think it's not fair for I was paid i Cloud like but I would say it is not worse than I was seven

1:08:16and it adds a bunch of things that you felt like you would be happy if you had them like I was didn't stench that was a

1:08:23big thing. Sure sure no I'm on a different point.

1:08:25You know my point was when when Marco was saying you know it's so close but it's not quite there.

1:08:31And i Cloud has gotten better

1:08:32but you know it seems like you could say that about a lot of things like so great example is

1:08:37and I was the ordering of the extensions in the share sheets I think that's what it is wherever the one password icon

1:08:44lives how you could at least put one you had you could have a one password extension.

1:08:49Yet when you tried to reorder what the order of those extensions were the order got reset constantly.

1:08:57Now I believe that's been fixed in the latest beta but that's a great example of how you were so close

1:09:02but then this is one really annoying thing that you didn't quite get right.

1:09:05I think that's much closer than I work at

1:09:07and even i Cloud which I had stumbled on the long term you have to say i Cloud Drive versus basically everything else

1:09:14they've ever done with documents.

1:09:15I can't drive is better than a cloud get versus everything else they've done in the same room. It is better.

1:09:20Maybe it's not there but you just want to see forward progress

1:09:23when you have a long running program like I work for a long running suite like I work that in

1:09:28and around for a long time is not updated on sort of on a regular basis such that you just often wonder like of the

1:09:35product dead or that is not going to do it anymore like i Life was the same way with a ring I like for the years

1:09:39and the name and then also new year would come and go

1:09:41and there'd be no new aisle I think like so is I live Still thing

1:09:46and then they release a point update to give the over to working like well the Someone's got to be some of their

1:09:50working on it because they're doing some work to make sure it works with the new US like vs Microsoft Office back in

1:09:56its heyday especially was like regular updates you know they're going to keep trying to make.

1:10:00Better maybe he'll disagree with something they've done or some weird interface

1:10:04or they employed a new crazy man using an office because Microsoft is organized like a like a crazy.

1:10:12I don't know what the right word is terrible and what her one hand and there was

1:10:16but anyway they always look like they were developing it

1:10:19and so many things with Apple are sort of like speculative abandonware just like Mark I was the one.

1:10:27Is anyone working on this.

1:10:28Probably like a guess but maybe not

1:10:33and I don't I mean the macro is speculative abandonware hardware for the longest time

1:10:37but in software that seems like a lot of that

1:10:39and you have to it has to be set at some point like maybe it has something to do with the fact that Apple feels like it

1:10:47shouldn't

1:10:47or can't sell the software anymore that everything has to be free that even the stuff that used to be four hundred

1:10:52dollars has to be seventy nine dollars now.

1:10:54You know like if if I work could be priced at something other than when you guys are saying it's reality

1:11:00and look at it like priced at some some price that is closer to sustainable.

1:11:06Maybe it wouldn't really fund all that development but just something

1:11:08but if they feel like they just have to give it away for free is a perk to try to make their hard or valuable.

1:11:13I don't see how a bunch of mediocre mediocre crappy programs make their hardware more valuable you know I mean

1:11:19but that's not you're not adding value no one is going over and if you get a nihilist

1:11:23and used to be a member I used to be like you know I like what it's like if you want to get I live you have to get a

1:11:27Mac. That was practically a system seller to use game console parlance right.

1:11:32Oh yeah people play with grunt in the store and like oh my God if I got a mac I could make music right.

1:11:37Delisle they have I for one know snow you have to have a mac like it was a system seller it was like all these things

1:11:42that you know I know I have a computer and people tell me I can use it to make movies to make music to burn C.D.'s

1:11:48but I know I personally can't use those things because it's way too complicated I would know where to begin

1:11:51and I lived was like hey we will make you successful at doing these things that you know are possible with a computer

1:11:57but you still feel are beyond your ability and I were. It's not a system seller.

1:12:01Nobody is buying Macs or i Pads or doing anything that involving Apple.

1:12:05Oh no good you know like if you know I work I could never do or processing before. It's not it's not a system seller.

1:12:13Yeah

1:12:13and I think you're I mean I don't think it's a pricing issue at all I don't think they ever sold high enough volumes of

1:12:19my work to to make the price of it matter much to their bottom line at all.

1:12:23But but it is very important to to push this to push the useless other platforms

1:12:28and you know not only not only from like an independent perspective like it's an insurance policy against Microsoft

1:12:34ever stopping making office for Macs. First of all and it's also to serve their I O. S.

1:12:41Interest to say look at how useful like the i Pad which really need some help right now.

1:12:46Look at how useful the i Pad can be for work and I.B.M.

1:12:50Can go and sell it for them they can sell

1:12:51and they can say look it runs all these Office apps because if Microsoft office pool for a while most of my jobs didn't

1:12:57exist on the i Pad Now it does but you know who knows if if it always will or how good it will always be.

1:13:04Now Apple can go around

1:13:05and say look you can get for this for this one low price of this i Pad that might be three years old a five for this

1:13:14one price you can get this i Pad and all this free software on it that's awesome

1:13:19and you should really buy this i Pad because of it and you're going to get all this work done

1:13:23and the problem is that you know so that's that's again the strategy tactic that's well they're not really that's their

1:13:29goal is to make their hardware sell more units that would make most of their money.

1:13:33But if the software is mediocre or absent it makes it very hard to do that.

1:13:40The weird thing is that with Iowa State now they've essentially given Microsoft all the tools needed to do the thing

1:13:47that previously would save all the Apple display only apples are going to ever bother to make it an office type suite

1:13:52of programs the work on the web and I.I.S.

1:13:55On the mac with the same file format all sharing between all synchronous But now with the advent of I.

1:14:00Dr Yosemite Iowa State extension is that Microsoft the reason Microsoft can't unify its office suite across all of its

1:14:07platform to using one driver whatever their services and having that integrated into i OS

1:14:11and having that available on Macs and you know like not only Apple can do this now

1:14:17and I wonder if Apple would be like relieved if someone of pick someone else picked up the mantle of because what Apple

1:14:22wants to sell is like we have a way for you to do word processing

1:14:26and doesn't matter where you do it if you do it on your mac.

1:14:28If you do it on a website if you do it on your i was device it's all the same document it's all the same program it you

1:14:34know it looks and works kind of roughly the same everywhere.

1:14:37With a native interface in each one of those things with a feature set the same across all of them so on

1:14:42and so forth like that's what they're selling.

1:14:44But if you do it with a bunch of mediocre applications the sort of unification they're going for I don't think that is

1:14:53as attractive if they say oh well especially

1:14:55when you know if I was more like really I know how to do that in Word I know how to make pivot tables in Excel I don't

1:15:00know anything about numbers I don't know what this page thing is and it's weird and it's kind of buggy

1:15:04and I use the old version I can't open the documents anymore

1:15:07and you know like that's why Office is still popular because Microsoft world's weirdness

1:15:12and all its troubles still has held to the contract of office like as a standard.

1:15:17You know like if you make your documents in this you'll be able to open them will do a good job of compatibility will

1:15:22try to make them look the same.

1:15:25I mean again it's been some of that to us like if you're going to run the Windows version of Office looks different on

1:15:29the Mac.

1:15:30Where in this font differences there's a whole thing about the Macs being what is it January one thousand know for

1:15:36something like that

1:15:37but is different than a Windows box all your dates in your powerpoint to be offset in like there are always problems.

1:15:42But Apple is not even it's not even a contender like there.

1:15:47They're defeating themselves like you know stop hating yourself Apple like they're punching themselves

1:15:51and not not a contender in this race and to put the devil's advocate for a second here. All the characters.

1:16:00Six that make Microsoft so good and reliable at being an office software supplier.

1:16:06Also make them very boring

1:16:07and unable to compete in a lot of consumer space because all those values like you need you need the opposite

1:16:12characteristics to make a lot of these to make a lot of great products in the spaces that we care more about these days.

1:16:17But that being said you know a lot of Apple's problems are just botched execution or bad decisions.

1:16:24Similar You know the people in point earlier like you could make a lot of the same arguments about Final Cut Pro tent

1:16:30when that came out that like it was Apple clearly like moving the ball forward way too aggressively

1:16:37and cutting WAY too much out and starting over

1:16:40and angering every user of this of these of the software he's sickly I think found the protests more defensible because

1:16:49they were moving forward they felt like they I think they miscalculated their power.

1:16:53Maybe like they thought they can make this great leap and they would leave some people behind

1:16:59but this future destination is better

1:17:01and in the end it will work out they could bring they could bring their market you know they can bring everybody had

1:17:07with them there would be stragglers people would grumble about kind of like O S ten it was kind of a mess in the

1:17:11beginning. People grumble but in the end the greatness of it compelled everyone to move along.

1:17:17And plus they got to the other audience of people who were never ends in the negatives as you know if anything has a

1:17:21nice going like that strategy work for them for us ten.

1:17:24They did essentially the same thing with Final Cut Pro It was also combined with like the crazy price drop thing like

1:17:30forget about I work being like you know although I was never sustain yourself then the things were sold I think the

1:17:34props were much closer sustaining themselves as as you know marketable products in their own right

1:17:40but even those got the axe

1:17:42and say like now you can't be two hundred dollars anywhere you go he said you know I'm boxes like this

1:17:45and Max will charge and so now you know they're not sustainable and they get less updates

1:17:49and produce anything didn't work out the way they wanted to and it just but a series of miscalculations

1:17:55and the pro apps are not are not things that are trying to help themselves are hardware.

1:18:00It is not that there's just too small of a market they were they were for Apple is for a while in the business of

1:18:05selling software to two pros and they seem to have sort of in the same way the law since you're selling X. or X.

1:18:12or Raid and everything seemed to have lost interest in pro software cancelling programs there are the careful shake

1:18:17or something like that.

1:18:20Proton I thought I thought I thought the proton was a good idea it just didn't quite work out as well for them as you

1:18:26know stand it. Well exactly it's and that's you know this is the problem.

1:18:30The Apple hardware is like fire and also owners the hardware these days is great.

1:18:35Last few years you see like almost every hardware product Apple has made in the last in the last three to five years

1:18:41has just been awesome.

1:18:43Like there's been very few exceptions to that and yet on the software side they're just crumbling

1:18:49and so many different fronts so frequently.

1:18:52I really worry about them because it used to be that they move much more slowly and were much smaller

1:18:57but they had a solid reputation of reliability and ease of use and stability

1:19:04and all of this was that's what carried their brand for so long that's why people would buy Apple products because it

1:19:12would quote just work because they would be better they would they would be more stable they would be more intuitive

1:19:18that everything would work better. Then in the in the P.C.

1:19:21World

1:19:22and in the last few years this has crumbled so far that I don't necessarily think we I mean the species have gotten

1:19:29really bad or no I haven't used them in a while

1:19:31but I think the Apple platform no longer has that that highground nearly as much as it used to if if it still has it

1:19:39all.

1:19:40Maybe not in the application space in the space like and I know a lot of people complain about somebody

1:19:45but you know like I said through like I upgrade all my machines sooner and sooner or later

1:19:51and I have great everything and it's just been remarkably problem free. I was eight not so much which is where.

1:20:00Because they're like more important platform. I was it was super buggy for me I still occasionally can't copy the U.R.L.

1:20:06and Paste it into another application I have no idea why I might one now has me insane

1:20:12and no I don't have one password installed and no I don't have any custom keywords installed mysterious

1:20:16but I think that there are less you know.

1:20:20Oh I spent at least those guys are doing a good job I mean you can starve you about whether they want to you really are

1:20:25this is stuff but then you look at their application software that's not part of the O. S.

1:20:30Any applications over the non-profit Yes I think this came up on one of our progress in the past it was like Name an

1:20:35Apple application that like that I could win

1:20:38and that that is it is an example apple to apple design award for people who don't know there is a shining example of

1:20:45what it's like to be an automatic application.

1:20:47Name one that's not bundled with the OS and that used to be pretty easy to do.

1:20:51Like the whole I like it was pretty amazing it's like you know they are the original version

1:20:55and I thought this is an amazing application.

1:20:58Now I don't think anyone said that about i Phone no mo save anything I work suite like I don't think Apple is leading

1:21:06in software. By saying if you are awesome. These are the kind of mac apps you would make.

1:21:12All right thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week Squarespace Harries and Lynda dot com

1:21:18and we will see you next week.

1:21:22Now this show is older than me to be an accidental accidental death was accidental

1:21:43and she is now sitting down as I said to that list and the.

1:22:04There are you going to snore s'more Now Casey I didn't want to put this in a control

1:22:27or prerogative that we spend the time but every time I talk about control of stuff that we're broken troll

1:22:32or people keep coming out and saying what was wrong with you you broke a drawer.

1:22:36Why do you keep saying bad things about the way you've broken doll

1:22:38and I know many times that I talked about what I don't like about you to have heard it before right.

1:22:44I'm sure I have but I don't remember which now I'm giving you giving you the excuse to TELL ME MORE.

1:22:48Remember I put links in the chat room so people can look at them the way you probably go

1:22:55and the games you control I guess in the way you probably go it if you look at it in your hand you like oh like like

1:23:00any Nintendo peripheral they make solid hardware in that like not to say it indestructible but it's pretty darn tough.

1:23:08Like it feels like a solid thing.

1:23:10You can abuse it it does not fall apart in general

1:23:14and it was really good in their meetings on harbor so this feels like a solid product

1:23:17but the problems with US are the same

1:23:19and if you listen to my head I know Woodstock link link the hypercritical episodes a couple times to ever go to those I

1:23:26talked about video game in trailers.

1:23:29The main problem with the broken troll is that the the right thumbstick is the place where the button should be sort of

1:23:37the primary control OK. Oh yes yes you have talked about this.

1:23:41Yes And just in reverse now if you if you use two six shooters maybe

1:23:45but even then I like the Tiger surrounds of the stakes and they have rounds around.

1:23:50I don't like having uniform buttons that are all the same size laid out in a diamond pattern because not everybody is

1:23:55equally important in games most have a main button in the secondary but encourage Cheri buttons.

1:24:00And doesn't feel comfortable.

1:24:01So like it's you know almost every way the controller can can be inferior to the game controller it is except the D.

1:24:08Pad which is much better and the triggers are probably better to and the build quality is maybe a little bit.

1:24:13It looks a little bit higher and the glossy finish on top or whatever

1:24:16and of course it's wireless in the US be chargeable and all that modern technology type stuff

1:24:20but now that's why I don't like the way you've broken TROY That's why nobody likes to be perfect.

1:24:24That's right nobody an entire universe what I'm saying is there's not a single person in the world like that where you

1:24:30program trolls or even it's designer doesn't like it as right

1:24:32and the mother of the design of my please email John I was every time I say that I don't like like wait a second are

1:24:39you saying that nobody likes a control I like I had a pony you know that reference.

1:24:44No no that's OK I gotta say I guess over games you enjoy life out of a culture that I saw

1:24:50but I think you tweeted a picture of it.

1:24:52Minton box Well it's in box anyway the box is moment and point as hasn't been opened.

1:24:59How much that cost is not that much two hundred bucks.

1:25:03No I don't think they were just two hundred dollars out of my phone.

1:25:08What courses await you know which is what you get what you want.

1:25:15No I got the phone that everyone gets sixty four black space grey please. Right yeah.

1:25:23Are you going to do case I already have the case is already here.

1:25:26The phone is not the kind of life the black leather case you have exactly my phone or will have exactly my phone

1:25:33and mine. I considered getting a red one but I just kinda the case the colored cases do not wear gracefully.

1:25:41I definitely love the case.

1:25:43Like I I definitely think you're making the right move getting the case and I question whether making getting a six

1:25:49but no one said it instead of a six plus instead of a five S.

1:25:53Now c'mon I'm going to finally buy an iphone after like you know six years I'm going.

1:26:00By generational law not going to happen. I had one for a week I know what I'm getting into it I had to be surprised.

1:26:05All right that's fair.

1:26:07So Marco if you were to buy a new phone tomorrow this success is out and you can get it in in four

1:26:14or four point whatever inches What are you buying that would.

1:26:20So does the smaller one have the same cameras the bigger one.

1:26:23Sure it's identical in every way except that it's physically smaller battery life.

1:26:31We'll call it a quick one because the screen is so much smaller and smaller.

1:26:36I think of this is that I still just drastically prefer the feel in the hand of the five S.

1:26:43but Golly I am getting nice a new screen and I am liking it.

1:26:48Oh I like it when I'm using it unless I'm using it one handed like while walking around doing something

1:26:53and unfortunately that's a pretty major role of a phone for most people so I just really it's like getting a seven

1:27:00hundred have a care pro it's like.

1:27:03Like it seemed like a good idea if you park it at a desk most of the time

1:27:07and don't bring it with you most of the time but if you're carrying it with you back

1:27:10and forth to work in a backpack every single day you might regret that decision.

1:27:14That might not be the best choice for you with a phone it's like you have to consider how it's actually used

1:27:19and yes a bigger screen is nicer while it's being used like two handed you know it's stationary it is indeed nicer

1:27:28but is it worth the tradeoff in portability in the sense that it makes it harder to use while portable for a lot of

1:27:35people and obviously that's an individual decision for people who are going back to the five S.

1:27:41or Who are still using the five S. and Not upgrading.

1:27:44I totally get that decision I totally respect that decision

1:27:46and I've almost made that decision I think I will ultimately stick with the six but I

1:27:52and I have come very close to going back to the five S.

1:27:54Because every time I pick it up I think not only does it look way better but it just feels so much better to use.

1:28:00And yes it does look tiny but everything I do is a million times faster. My group is more secure.

1:28:06I can reach everything it's in it's less frustrating to the fact is as I said earlier i O S

1:28:12and I was apps are still largely designed with the assumption that you can always reach all four corners.

1:28:17So many important buttons are up on the upper corners that are hard to reach on a six

1:28:21and that maybe over time that changes but we're not there yet.

1:28:26Both in the OAS and all the apps and it's going to be a while.

1:28:30So I think in the future this might be easier to use a larger phone because like the software will be it will be more

1:28:36you know finger local in a lot of ways.

1:28:38It will it will assume that your only hold in the bottom two thirds of the phone.

1:28:43But until that point and that point is not here yet this you know and again and when the watch comes and when you

1:28:50when your phone is less often needed to be used one handed you know if you can do certain things in the watch that

1:28:56would previously take your phone in your pocket to do while walking somewhere

1:29:01or doing something then again that will also help. But we're not there yet either.

1:29:06So I think for this year it makes sense for a lot of people who are sensitive to this to not upgrade at the six

1:29:12and then maybe next year we'll see what happens you know as as the environment around it changes as we get the watch as

1:29:17we get different software considerations. We'll see what happens but as of today I think it's a tough call.

1:29:24Well if you consider the rumored mix of six and six plus I don't know this is a rumor or announce

1:29:29but I've seen numbers thrown around that make the mix of six

1:29:32and six Plus look WAY closer to fifty fifty I ever thought it would be.

1:29:37Do you know any sources of authority or numbers or have heard similar rumors. I haven't anybody with any credibility.

1:29:44I forget where I thought I mean I'm assuming I sort of like maybe a Simco

1:29:48or maybe some related thing I don't know I don't know if the lover tells them next

1:29:51but we're pretty confident they say is that I think we would have heard a story if it turned out the five S.

1:29:59Was like selling.

1:30:00Massively you know like the people weren't getting the sex that that all the hardcore people are buying five Ss

1:30:05and it was just a crazy I mean and the thing against the five S.

1:30:08Now is not so much just that it's older and slower but also no Apple Pay right known and of C.

1:30:15and So if Apple does continue to make a smaller line which stops for grabs for they do if they gave it feature parity

1:30:22then it would be like the i Pads where last year despite the size if you had three sizes to pick from they would have

1:30:28really covered pretty much every base you can imagine.

1:30:31Well and the Apple pay again that's another thing where you have to look

1:30:34and say well it's you know Apple has just launched it is still not supported widely yet you know in a year from now

1:30:42then a lot of like a lot of American places will of will replace their terminals at the new tuxes terminals

1:30:46and everything so you have more that like I feel like over time the usefulness of the larger phones will grow.

1:30:54But today it's more of a tough call.

1:30:56That also being said all of this is not to say they won't sell well

1:31:01or that they aren't selling well it's just like the T.V.

1:31:03In the store bright picture problem like people are going to buy these things in large numbers regardless of whether

1:31:10they're actually easy easy or better to use than the smaller ones.

1:31:14We're doing this is pent up demand of people who knew that and wanted a bigger phone.

1:31:18Oh yeah you know like like they knew it was like they were speculating like I think I might like a better phone

1:31:22or like maybe they were coming from a bigger phone

1:31:24and there's like I would buy the i Phone except if you Smaug the whole reason they needed a bigger phone so I you know

1:31:29the number probably read them to be in a chat room said the team mobile C.E.O. Said it was close to fifty fifty.

1:31:34Obviously he can only report on his own sales

1:31:36but if that's true we try to find a link to it that is that is always one data point.

1:31:43Yeah I mean who knows what the truth is I think you're right that we'll probably never know I do think it would be

1:31:49interesting if you know if a large apps with analytics packages they could start tracking things you know

1:31:57or large analytics company like they start publishing.

1:32:00Like what you know what is flirty say you know what percentage of that they're installed on is this versus this model

1:32:05like that we can definitely will get will have that information and we know if we don't already have it.

1:32:08But again I think we're going to do fine with this and that's fine and in the future I might be better to use them

1:32:15but that doesn't make it doesn't these large phones a great solution today for a lot of priorities

1:32:21and look a lot of people are very happy with them a lot of people love these things.

1:32:26I was even one of the people saying I want bigger phone and I jump to get one as soon as I could

1:32:31but maybe maybe there's a better point between four point zero

1:32:37and four point seven That's a pretty big range you know it may be maybe a four point three would be great you know you

1:32:42get a little more space.

1:32:44I don't

1:32:44and I don't for four four point seven is the compromise I like shaving into they're going to be like you know you

1:32:51didn't bigger hands.

1:32:52So it comes down to you know just upgrade them next year contract with my week with the with the six years I think what

1:32:59happened was that I just upgraded my hand motions I upgraded my little hand genetics

1:33:05and you hold the phone differently than everybody else in the world.

1:33:08Well you know the moves you do to to get to the party activists like you said the software just isn't updated I'm using

1:33:14apps that were made for at best the i Phone five screen and at worst you know the smaller three point five inch

1:33:20and I upgraded my my hand moves so much so that oh I mean I got a smaller one I would find myself starting to do the

1:33:27hand move that I need to do to hit the Done button and Twitter if I can realize I don't need to do that move.

1:33:32I can go back to my other move to do you know I think that will mostly take care of itself

1:33:36but I like the reason I think I'm not bothered by this because once I sort of upgrade all my you know my hands move set

1:33:44then it's fine I mean I think the only persistent bothersome thing about the i Phone six

1:33:48or eight was how much room it took out took in whatever pocket I had it in because that didn't go.

1:33:53Yeah I could always felt like it was bigger.

1:33:55It was more it was taking up more if I put in my friend's jeans pocket is more likely to feel.

1:34:00Under stress if I sat down on a pair

1:34:01and bending it is in my coat pocket it pokes out a little bit farther than the other one did

1:34:05but that I think we're going over because I really do use mine more like a little mini tablet.

1:34:12So do you think that will ever come a time that if you think back to the tweenie days Polder refresh wasn't a thing

1:34:22and then learned Richter did it with Tweedy and then it became a thing where it literally became a system level thing.

1:34:29So do you think there may come a time where I.O.'s transitions to a back button at the bottom of the screen kind of

1:34:39layout be it because some popular applique Tweetie doesn't everyone embraces it or perhaps because the S.T.K.

1:34:46Changes and suddenly tab bars at the top enjoyed style

1:34:51and back buttons at the bottom do you think that would ever happen.

1:34:54I think they're going for the you know the system back gesture like that's their attempt to say yes you know paradigm

1:34:59for navigation instead of having a tool bar that you have to reach back button is really hard to find.

1:35:04Do the systems

1:35:05but I think that swipe is I know I almost never do it it is not obvious even if you show somebody else they don't know

1:35:12I do it all the time.

1:35:12Yeah I just pretty much almost never do it

1:35:15and I don't think it's type of thing that if you show somebody they will do all the time because it's not reliable

1:35:20depends on which application using whether it works or not and it's it is a fairly precise gesture.

1:35:25It's not there's not a lot of slop on it because if you just do a swipe sideways that may do something

1:35:31but it's not the back one that has to involve the edges like I think is too much nuance to it so I think what you're

1:35:36saying Casey is more likely that application developers will especially of the six plus

1:35:42and that they like super popular they'll have to redesign their applications to be inside like the thumb the thumb hot

1:35:50zone like where you can reach where you know put everything that's important within reach

1:35:54and then suddenly the phone doesn't feel as big anymore because the apps are designed not to have you do that

1:35:59and whatever paradigm.

1:36:00It is that the does that weather is moving everything to the bottom

1:36:02or you know I remain I don't know what the solutions are to reachability that we nodded That's like a hack that I'm

1:36:09sure a few people might use but that's not the best solution. Yeah I am hoping that the U.I.

1:36:14Is a redesign themselves

1:36:15and we standardize on you know is novel doing it even if just like you know the hamburger buns thing which Apple is not

1:36:21popular as imagine like you said pull the refresh you know come out of the third party world

1:36:26and have it be some kind of consensus and have all the applicants are to look the same in the world

1:36:31and that's that's plausible. Now in other news Marco have you played with your retina. I'm back at all.

1:36:38Yamuna right now. Oh and yeah I've been using a full time for about two days.

1:36:42Oh I did realize and things are amazing or whatever. Oh my God it's amazing.

1:36:47Good oh my god it's yeah it's amazing there's so there's actually a few things that I'm that I've had to change as a

1:36:56result of going to retina that are very very boring so I want to tell you about them.

1:37:02So the first thing is that's that's fair.

1:37:05So as there are no as with you some of the stuff this is also a pretty assembly.

1:37:11So as John has pointed out you know somebody takes cues from the desktop wallpaper to do most of it's blurriness so

1:37:20please email john with the details of how I got that wrong.

1:37:23So the problem is before for years I've used just like a static like medium gray background

1:37:29and I've put a whole bunch of crap my desktop now you know I see them in the desktop it's John's disaster scenario it's

1:37:36like everything is in the desktop and Yosemite if you have a solid color desktop it has some drab dark color.

1:37:42Many windows wilt will pick it up in some little way and just look terrible.

1:37:46You know you've had these awful I mean John you saw this right

1:37:49and you testing in the you know I can do my back going to work as a pest pumpkins pumpkins are nice

1:37:55and beautiful in orange but they make everything look terribly sick and rusty. Well.

1:38:00Like like you can't just do a solid color a flat color background even that because even the flat color backgrounds now

1:38:06will make a many things you somebody look terrible.

1:38:08If you want to if you want to get away from this effect use a background that has an awful white colors in it like if

1:38:15it has like blue sky with fluffy white clouds your menu bar will look sane.

1:38:20And most of your windows

1:38:21and menus will look that crazy maybe maybe though it looks like the color temperature on your monitor is off because

1:38:26it'll be a little bit blue.

1:38:28That's what that's what I have here at home I have to get some background that has a white sky with all the counts

1:38:33moving up the top of my menu bar looks OK and the menus I pull down from it was a little blue

1:38:39but like the Something about anything it's like brown

1:38:41or green it just it just makes the whole interest look sick like it's like a cow syndrome

1:38:45or for your mac funny that you mention that.

1:38:48So basically I have I tried a few a few different things

1:38:53and what I've come to is I started using the wallpaper I've been using on my retina my pro Pro since I got it in twenty

1:38:59twelve which is a bright sky blue photo I took in New Zealand of the bright sun lit sky and a bright blue ocean

1:39:09and so it is nice like sunny bright blue picture and it's crisp and looks amazing on the retina resolution.

1:39:17It's fantastic for this purpose because it is it works with everything as you said like you know a light blue color is

1:39:23great for this. I also then had to declare my desktop because look terrible is covered in the files.

1:39:31And even they change the i Tunes icon.

1:39:33They also change the file like if you have an M P three get the i Tunes file icon so it all sons have everything

1:39:39and I used to have a blue dot on it as a big shining red Japanese flag all of you to stop. Yeah so it's.

1:39:46So I clean up my desktop like that had to change also because that was part of it.

1:39:50Also my my monospaced font had to change because I was a monocle hold out all those years I was doing Monaco not anti

1:39:58aliased on my desktop.

1:40:00In council ATA I haven't tried that yet so right now I'm on Menlo because I basically inherited what I've been doing

1:40:06them on my retina laptops

1:40:07and that existed so I remember I went from Monaco ten men little eleven I had to go up a size also

1:40:14and part of that is because of the just looks better on retina and part of that is because I'm going.

1:40:19I went from a thirty inch screen to a twenty seven so I have a a decrease in the size of elements on screen because the

1:40:25same the same point with

1:40:27but three inches smaller diagonal so it actually is like everything is noticeably a little bit smaller.

1:40:33But other so so I actually like I'm fitting less per line in Xcode after change when line wrap settings

1:40:38and adjust my standards and everything on the same point with a thirty inch. Yeah twenty five sixty.

1:40:44Really you know it will be shorter vertically but horizontal got a marriage.

1:40:48Yeah yeah I've been I've been thinking about what I'm going to go to because I'm also a bit mad Monica Hall that I'm

1:40:54still on that map on a go and I'm Bob if they want to go right now that is not tenable any more thought to make it fun.

1:40:59You're a nine. Well I was always ten.

1:41:01Monica Monica nine has been my five hard core since this is the old days

1:41:05when lower case Allen Cavil I looked exactly the same

1:41:08but I have a hard core Monica nine years there's been a that's been the biggest difference like so like you know now

1:41:13I'm basically using like this this like clean wallpapered beach scene computer with all these big smooth fonts on it

1:41:21compared to my old like super geek Monaco pixel font but I got used to it very quickly

1:41:26and then so so to find that arrived today and I've been I've been back and forth her computer setting it up

1:41:32and going from her old computer to her new one I keep having to briefly use her twenty seven inch thunderbolt display

1:41:40which is of course a non retina the same size very similar finish to macro is less glossy but it's still reflective.

1:41:47Just you know less so.

1:41:49Same size same pixel dimensions

1:41:52and the twenty seventh on a boat is no slouch it's a very good looking monitor like my old my big thirty inch H.P.

1:41:59Mediocre model.

1:42:00You're always had you know far more drab colors and you know worse contrasts

1:42:04and everything then this awesome little twenty seven a certificate.

1:42:08Well now that I was using the retina for I was using it for one day and I go to see his monitor

1:42:14and it just looks like complete garbage like you see every pixel.

1:42:17It's like it looks like you're going back to DOS like it's it you can't believe how much worse it looks like once once

1:42:24every screen you see all day is retina. When you see that in one hundred no one it is shocking.

1:42:31Like it's a it's a big big difference. So yeah that's how it's going I'm loving it it's great.

1:42:37There is fan noise not in not in most workloads but if you if you stress the C.P.U.

1:42:43Use for more than about a minute or so like of using handbrake to go to video

1:42:49or something like that if you match all the C.P.U.'s for more than about a minute you will hear the fan spin up

1:42:55and I would say the overall noise level is similar to the Retina MacBook Pro

1:43:00when it spun up so it's like a nice kind of like medium.

1:43:05It sounds more like white noise than the old fans like cases

1:43:08and sounds more like white noise it has the essential blade I assume to do that.

1:43:15But and it is it is not I would not call it loud but you do definitely hear it.

1:43:22And it it is I would say it's very similar to that to the finish right of my pro under full load. So it's finite.

1:43:31I'll see in practice over time if that ends up being a problem while recording this pod cast I've been monitoring the

1:43:37fan speed

1:43:38and it has not gone above its idle speed during this entire time so I'm not worried about things like this being a

1:43:43problem. We'll see what happens.

1:43:45You know if I have to encode a bunch of video or something with it it's the reality is I need C.P.U.

1:43:52Speed but I usually need it in short bursts like compiling an X.

1:43:56Code or encoding the M P three for the show like I need it in short.

1:44:00First and so I don't think the fan noise is ever really going to be a huge problem for me

1:44:05but I'll see what happens like this.

1:44:07This might be the one factor that in two years makes me want a new macro that can drive the new five case analytically

1:44:13but we'll see. For now I'm very very happy with this. IMAX or everyone.

1:44:18Some like that but also for I really do start snowing. How are you still awake on time.

1:44:25I am absolutely dying from honest it should be less of a hardship for you because day

1:44:29and night to cease to have all meaning and this should be just like if we were doing it at like eleven A.M.

1:44:34In the morning.