The Accidental Tech Podcast

91: Press Agree to Drive


  If denied reject this offer immediately and furthermore declare war against that I guess. [TS]

  I think we have some exciting news. [TS]

  We do I think it's time that we reach the largest daily audience in the world by connecting everyone to their world via [TS]

  our information sharing and distribution platform product [TS]

  and be one of the top revenue generating Internet companies in the world. [TS]

  Who put the revenue generation in your statement like I was in the mission statement is like is that like implied like [TS]

  well we also want to make a lot of not make a lot of money we want a lot of money to flow through our corporation. [TS]

  Hopefully eventually our cost will be a lot below that amount [TS]

  and will realize some profit the really what we mostly want to concentrate on is just just throughput you know make it [TS]

  up in volume to lots of revenue. That's her mission statement is just so it ain't so low. [TS]

  Well and to be fair they corrected us. This is not Twitter's new mission statement. [TS]

  This is Twitter's new strategy statement. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is. [TS]

  Maybe this is just because I'm not from this planet and business people apparently are. No it's the opposite. [TS]

  OK that's because something is she something is wacky and business like is there whatever they put in most businesses. [TS]

  Is there some kind of weird chemical that off gases from that that might cause this kind of language to be understood [TS]

  and produced so maybe it's like the spider phones [TS]

  or like cubicle walls I don't know just meetings that just you know it is going to do the motivational poster for [TS]

  meetings. [TS]

  None of us this is dumb as all of us know the thing that is I've talked about this in the past [TS]

  and I'm not being funny right now I really believe that most large businesses [TS]

  and I have seen this firsthand in financial services firms. [TS]

  They are entirely not literally of course they're entirely middle management [TS]

  and the problem is that every one of every one of these middle managers realizes deep down inside that they're [TS]

  redundant and so they all. [TS]

  Decide to have meetings constantly [TS]

  and they have these meetings so that at these meetings all of the middle managers can stick up their peacock tails [TS]

  and say look at me I'm so smart I'm not redundant it's all you idiots that are the redundant ones [TS]

  and that's that this is the same thing that happens with lawyers. [TS]

  They make up these ridiculous reasons to exist simply so that they can continue to exist. [TS]

  It's completely self-serving really because I mean look at reach the largest daily audience in the world by connecting [TS]

  everyone to their world via our information sharing distribution platform products [TS]

  and be one of the top revenue generating Internet companies in the world I know you read that before I'm reading it [TS]

  again and I am miserable. [TS]

  One just tells what it is because we've just been talking about this is of everyone knows [TS]

  and some poor person is going to be losing the six months from now I have no idea we're talking about this is the [TS]

  recently unveiled Twitter strategy statement at first everyone thought it was a mission statement. [TS]

  It was later corrected to be a strategy statement in some kind of it was unveiled in some kind of investor presentation [TS]

  that they held today. Yeah my favorite part is platform products. [TS]

  Yeah that's where you stop being able to parse the sentence and you're like they're missing punctuation. [TS]

  Or is this a typo [TS]

  or I mean the whole thing is it is a tremendous run on sentence that really could benefit from some commas. [TS]

  You can tell they don't even write it like they don't write very well. [TS]

  They don't this doesn't even fit in a tweet as many people pointed out as either a mission or a strategy statement. [TS]

  It is I would say weak at best [TS]

  and it doesn't finish try to get the worse especially the bombs erev rav No I just made fun of like I am putting that [TS]

  in there just seems crass and putting revenue instead of product just seems dumb [TS]

  but the best part is it's one of the top. [TS]

  Like they're not even going to say number one they're not going to say that exist [TS]

  but is want to be a contender for money moving through our organization really we're not going to say we're going to be [TS]

  number one like you know ever make fun of Google Don't be evil thing [TS]

  or whatever their whatever their their mission statement. [TS]

  Like indexing all the world's information or something like that. [TS]

  And Microsoft's of the old you know a computer on every desk running Microsoft software like those are simple easy to [TS]

  understand the goals of the don't like don't say we really want to share price to be high. [TS]

  Our goal is often is worth so much and they can retire in five years [TS]

  and buy an island like you might want to put that in your mission statement and sell it. [TS]

  Sharing that his company's mission statement at one point included revenue per employee. Wow that's amazing. [TS]

  You just got the same Ingelow it's it's terrible. [TS]

  It's like it's almost like it's so you can think that but don't don't write it down. [TS]

  And but really you should be me thinking that like you know when Microsoft [TS]

  and Google both have more noble more integration or mission statement I think you do it you're not doing well [TS]

  when what the shows like it's obviously like this. This is a sentence designed by so much Committee. [TS]

  I don't think of a sentence. [TS]

  There's all this like there's all these clauses that are bolted on that they don't really need to be there [TS]

  and they reflect like every like every department had a bolt on or the leadership couldn't decide what to say [TS]

  and so they said everything. [TS]

  All of which is funny because that all kind of seems to reflect Twitter's you know kind of wacky weak leadership that [TS]

  you know Twitter has has always had leadership issues from the founders coming kind of in and out [TS]

  and different you know C.E.O.'s coming in [TS]

  and out like they've always had really seemingly unstable leadership mean Dick Costolo I think has been there the [TS]

  longest. [TS]

  People have been like him near the top but it's always kind of been all over the place [TS]

  and what they what they have what the sentence is is a very clear indicator to the outside world that they that they [TS]

  still have struggles up at the very top with you know getting you know what the direction of the company might even be [TS]

  or who gets to get recognized or whatever. It's a little thing is this is not like you know a major. [TS]

  Or anything but it's an indicator of the kind of sloppy. [TS]

  Possibly out of touch possibly you know shot in the dark kind of leadership [TS]

  but they have I mean look at like I would reach the largest daily audience in the world you could end it right there [TS]

  and be done. [TS]

  It's still a little weird although even that is like doing a reach [TS]

  when you reach them what have you done like if you're not you know I mean like the Google thing like they're they're [TS]

  whatever they're doing index in the world's information like they're taking all the information the world they want to [TS]

  bring it all in and organize it [TS]

  and make it accessible in a way like they're doing a useful thing they're saying is information. [TS]

  It's hard to do anything with it. [TS]

  We Google have this massive ambition that I always measurable take it in [TS]

  and we'll make it so that you can do something useful with it right that is a mental thing even the next clause is also [TS]

  pretty good. Connect everyone to their world. [TS]

  That's that alone doesn't say a lot but it's better than better than the whole you know [TS]

  and of course the envy one of the top original Internet companies in the world OK you know if you if that's what you [TS]

  want to be fine. [TS]

  But like this if if anybody with with editing permission got ahold of this it probably would've been better to just say [TS]

  connect everyone to their world like that's it that's all you need to say out of this entire like sixty five word sends [TS]

  it's awful but even that is just like really weak. It doesn't it doesn't seem like they know what it is. [TS]

  If it would've been a more fun meeting the same people who came up with this [TS]

  and say What do you think Twitter is doing now what they do why do people use Twitter for like Twitter is a thing that [TS]

  exists. Right you guys run the company. [TS]

  So can you describe like what it is that Twitter is right now like now what you want to be now what you want the [TS]

  company to be not when your mission is but like right now there is something called Twitter and people use it [TS]

  and try to describe that nothing they could because I don't think that Twitter users I don't think they understand what [TS]

  value that Twitter has that would have been a more instructive exercise for them. [TS]

  Yeah I would be shocked if most of Twitter's top leadership really used Twitter. Very heavily. [TS]

  I don't get this [TS]

  and I keep coming back to what you were saying earlier Marco that this is definitely designed by committee. [TS]

  This is this what is not a mission saying on what we call it strategy same a strategy statement Thank you. [TS]

  The strategy statement seems like the text based equivalent of like websites carrousel you know what I'm talking about [TS]

  where you know there are ten different groups that all are convinced that they should be the hero image on this website [TS]

  and what ends up happening is nobody wants to make a tough decision [TS]

  and so they just say asked screw it will put on a rotating carousel now will be good enough. [TS]

  This is like the text version of that just like you were saying everyone you get three words a piece of wood just mash [TS]

  them together in some way that vaguely resembles English so that so that I don't you know do some follow up. [TS]

  There was one of those one of the thing I was trying to think of over the Twitter thing and I totally lost my mind. [TS]

  Maybe to come back to me later maybe this tragic statement not that your brain problem definitely did although I was [TS]

  proud of myself that I remembered the motivational poster word for word without without looking it up. [TS]

  All right so let's talk about App Store not allowing purchase bundles. [TS]

  Yeah I don't have an example of that last time I still have an example [TS]

  but I think the same person contact man who sent an original thing sent us a screenshot [TS]

  and the weird thing about the screen shot if you take a look at it is it just gets rid of the purchase button I mean [TS]

  it's not a big screen shots cropped so I can't say but those who have no purchase [TS]

  but he's got a big red arrow saying this is where the purchase button would be [TS]

  and if you didn't include another shot showing the purchase button like that it would be there I wouldn't understand [TS]

  what there was point it was a basically a summon some of the bonus but it was good I got to the App Store [TS]

  and let you buy it for more than it would cost to just buy the one after missing but it's kind of weird. [TS]

  Maybe somewhere else on a page it tells you why there's no purchase button like bug fix by display none like me. [TS]

  The a button that says here's the problem would you put in the bun. [TS]

  You can't buy this because it would cost you more than buying the individual does not fit in a button [TS]

  and one tritone German right does not like going to work out I don't know another mass anyway [TS]

  but it throw them in there or put in the show not. I'm still honestly trying to figure out why Apple made bundles. [TS]

  You know obviously it was not for a great price hacks that's that's obviously not the intent here otherwise it will [TS]

  work better for that. I really wonder what like it seems to only benefit. Obviously it only benefits paid apps. [TS]

  I don't think purchases can contribute and any possible way to this [TS]

  and Apple usually doesn't do anything to help aid apps because most of the apps that actually get them literally aren't [TS]

  paid apps [TS]

  and most of the money in the App Store does not come from paid apps anymore I think the numbers are something like ten [TS]

  percent or something of the money comes from paid out of some kind of very low number [TS]

  but most of the reports that try to measure it. [TS]

  So I wonder what what was the goal here was it some kind of weird like you know serve certain game companies kind of [TS]

  thing I honestly have no idea. [TS]

  As a sales tool like it's so it's yet another thing that we can do to make software cheaper if you think of it in that [TS]

  way. [TS]

  So there are some apps that are paid and it's like well we can't make those people make their apps free [TS]

  but maybe we can make it so that the cost of those apps [TS]

  and less by letting people bundle them up so that people who are going to buy these three apps anyway. [TS]

  Now you can buy a dress for less money that you know is risk with lowering the purchase price [TS]

  or all sorts of sale tactics obviously free is magic. [TS]

  But people like lower prices as well but so the price of angel if you ask and striven down [TS]

  but this is a tool to say if you make a suite of applications [TS]

  and people are going to buy them individually for you know two ninety nine each of us is too much money. [TS]

  So put them all into a bundle together for five bucks you know for Fortune one you don't ask me about over five bucks [TS]

  and then you basically once again found a way to lower the price of software for customers. [TS]

  Get more software for less money. [TS]

  That's what I guess I think that's Apple's big thing is like they want software to be cheap [TS]

  and if if there are some applications that are not cheap. [TS]

  What if we get it [TS]

  and it's good you know it's a win win for the developer to this you have multiple absolutely having troubles on them [TS]

  individually what if we gave you a to sell them together for a lower price that would save the consumer money anyone [TS]

  who was going to buy both those ads anyway saves money [TS]

  and you maybe make a sale where you wouldn't before because before the you know it's perceived as a bargain is the same [TS]

  reason you know everything is on sale all the time at the big department stores that still exist. [TS]

  It seems it just seems like Apple is doing something pretty we done it here like it if they're trying to reduce the [TS]

  price that paid software sells for they can just do that by inaction like because everything else about the App Store [TS]

  encourages price to go down to free people love bundles lower back [TS]

  when I was a bookstore a place we had many different kinds of bundles and they were a popular thing to have. [TS]

  We like making them people like buying them. [TS]

  It's you know I'm surprised more electronic store I mean I guess they kind of do. [TS]

  Does the i Tunes started that when you complete this album as though it's just straight math or do you get a bargain. [TS]

  I believe in a straight math but I'm not I'm not a one percenter on that. [TS]

  And bundles and something free slogan they can have that. [TS]

  Yeah I mean how about I work as I work speaking of of bundles and cheaper software so John Jeev not John River Road [TS]

  and just to comment on what I said about I work about how having a mediocre to crappy office type program doesn't make [TS]

  Apple hardware more valuable doesn't help Apple sell hardware in the way that i Life used to back [TS]

  when I was really good. I work has never been really good it doesn't really help sell Macs. [TS]

  If anything maybe just neutral and John G. [TS]

  Says that he thinks that they're all defensive strategies [TS]

  and sure the companies don't get squeezed out he says what if the surface six generation is amazingly caught up to the [TS]

  i Pad and come. [TS]

  At Office free Apple make it squeezed out so basically by having having its own office we do not beholden to Microsoft [TS]

  and they won't be afraid that whatever their platform is i Pad or whatever become less viable. [TS]

  Microsoft suddenly decides they don't want to offer Office for first of all the odds at this point of Microsoft not [TS]

  offering office virus in very low since I can sell seems very gung ho on cross-platform these days Second of all of us [TS]

  wasn't on I was a really long time didn't seem to hurt it [TS]

  but the biggest counterargument to this idea that Apple needs to make an office suite so they don't get squeezed out by [TS]

  someday having office taken away or something. [TS]

  Is that Apple having a mediocre office suite subsidized by hardware profits makes it way harder for third party [TS]

  developers to make a living selling office type applications. [TS]

  Like I work as a free thing [TS]

  and I think it's free now right all the time comes comes a new devices any way you can just download the around America [TS]

  right. That makes it really hard for anybody else to try to make office style applications. [TS]

  Microsoft can because they're subsidized over never is making them money [TS]

  and I think they just made office Ryo a spear something like that. But mostly sort of. [TS]

  Yeah I know it was confusing with the three sixty five it's given that it's mostly free. [TS]

  Yeah but if Apple is really concerned about making its platform and not too reliant on office [TS]

  or any other particular type of thing the best thing it could do is foster a thriving market for office type [TS]

  applications and by making putting tons of money and I work in and giving away giving it away for free [TS]

  or at the very least as it was before below cost that makes it impossible for you to have a thriving ecosystem of [TS]

  applications you're basically guaranteeing it's only just you vs office so I think rather than I work being neutral [TS]

  it's actually in terms of the fear of being squeezed out is actually a negative because there they are making sure that [TS]

  no one else will ever try to make a suite of office applications because you know while Microsoft Plus Apple are both [TS]

  making. [TS]

  Sure that no one else is going to try to do that [TS]

  and so we're at the mercy of Microsoft which so far as I'm been that great and I work which also starred in that great. [TS]

  How about the Ryan Mack G.P.U. Being throttled. Is that a thing. [TS]

  I think it is a thing at least for people who are interested in playing games [TS]

  and windows a lot of people sent me this link to MacRumors storm thread about IMAX five K. G.B.U. [TS]

  Throttling and start over someone who was doing some gaming benchmarks in Windows and boot camp and back five K. [TS]

  and Saw that the G.P.U. [TS]

  Would start throttling way below the temperature is supposed to so like recording this person he thinks that the G.P.S. [TS]

  Will start throwing one hundred five degrees celcius [TS]

  and Stead started throbbing like seconds after it started to be used in the nose of the star throwing like seventy re [TS]

  Celsius. So that's not good but I could just be bad Windows drivers and lots of people north of this thread. [TS]

  Talk about veto. Well they better than drivers who come out in this will be a problem. [TS]

  But then other people later in the thread said it's not just Windows. [TS]

  I can run a game in my mac and it's really easy to get the G.P.O. [TS]

  Up to one hundred five degrees celcius [TS]

  and people don't know what self is as that's really hot one hundred degrees Celsius is a boiling point of water right. [TS]

  Yes Yes You know the Americans confidently say yes yes. [TS]

  Celsius Anyway the point is that really hot [TS]

  and a lot of people in the thread are concerned that this is near the thermal limits of the G.P.U. [TS]

  It's going to shorten the life of the G.B. [TS]

  Use it on the people in the thread so I don't think Apple would have tested this with temperatures that other people [TS]

  come back with a look at all these historic G.P.U. Failures Apple portable machines. [TS]

  So at the very least this is not encouraging. If you're planning on gaming and IMAX. [TS]

  Temperatures aside if you're not worried about the particular temperatures [TS]

  or maybe it's the way to measure because it's peak temperature instead of at the edge of the die [TS]

  or were never I think the more important point. As in is a like building the show it's gaining benchmarks. [TS]

  So ignore temperatures ignore tempers entirely ignore the longevity of your G.P.U. Whatever that may or may not be. [TS]

  If you look at gaming benchmarks like this benefits thing that of the new fanciest five K. IMAX versus the lesser G.P.U. [TS]

  In the five K. [TS]

  Vs the old US non retina time at the top of the line of Mike you can buy is not even the fastest imac ever made in [TS]

  depending on your game and when it does a win doesn't win by a large margin. [TS]

  So these benchmarks are kind of depressing from game is the padding of arms is fine [TS]

  but you would expect you know this to be a next generation. [TS]

  I'm back with an entirely different expected to do better than the previous generation G.P.U. [TS]

  and For the most part it does [TS]

  but it's not a really convincing win in a couple benchmarks it actually is a little bit slower [TS]

  and so regardless of throttling that's not great either. [TS]

  So kind of not over say a mixed bag with a lot of unknowns right now for the five K. [TS]

  I am Act I don't know much about the temperature stuff I can't really tell this is crazy [TS]

  or not although people running similar benchmarks against their old IMAX are getting way lower temperatures [TS]

  and you can't tell like that because the sensor is showing at a temperature different location what is the reasonable. [TS]

  temperature for this G.P.U. [TS]

  Is it OK for it to be showing a measurement of one hundred five degrees Celcius all the time. [TS]

  The throttling window seems like a driver issue it like it shouldn't be throttling at seventy three Celsius [TS]

  and so that's really killing Windows gaming performance there. So I don't know. [TS]

  Anyway depressing thread for anyone who is looking forward to gaming on their five K. [TS]

  I think you're right on that is disappointing if it doesn't affect me or my priorities at all [TS]

  but the disappointing for whatever it's worth I have been running the the ice that menus fan monitor just just so I [TS]

  could get an idea of like you know when. [TS]

  And spins up under what temperatures and what kind of wood just we're going to some idea of how this computer behaves. [TS]

  Right now it's letting the C.P.U. Is idle at about one hundred thirty Fahrenheit. [TS]

  I don't have this in Celsius mode Sorry you'll have to do your own translations [TS]

  but see pewter I only have one hundred thirty years idle at about one hundred one years and here doing not much. [TS]

  I noticed that the fan will only spin up on the C.P.U. [TS]

  Watts is one fan a whole system but the family's been up when the C.P.U. [TS]

  Temperature reaches about one ninety Fahrenheit so it's getting very close to that hundred Celsius number before the [TS]

  fan even spins up. [TS]

  It doesn't it doesn't have across two hundred so it's keeping it right below it over the years like ninety five [TS]

  or whatever it even the C.P.U. [TS]

  Is right below that under full load but it's not it's not being up at all until then whatever that's worth anyway [TS]

  but yeah I have found so far in my kind of use. [TS]

  I'm actually extremely happy the more use the machine the happier I am with it it is really really nice. [TS]

  I mean it's like even like I mentioned last week the fan noise under full load. [TS]

  I did the one test with a full load fan noise and I didn't load up like that for a few days [TS]

  and like the memory of it got louder in my mind over the future and not like when I [TS]

  when I ran a handbrake conversion the other day for a totally legal movie file that I totally legal podcast friend of [TS]

  mine got me for a totally legal B.B.C. [TS]

  Car show when I ran a handbrake transcoder that file to make it on my totally legal Apple T.V. [TS]

  I I was messing up the sea views again and the fan was way quieter than I and I imagine it like it is loud. [TS]

  It is it is like a laptop stand in that when it spins to full speed you will hear it [TS]

  but it is I would say it's a little quieter than a fifteen [TS]

  and threaten my profession after all it's a similar kind of noise a little quieter still noticeable still audible still [TS]

  knowing if it's always that way out but either way I would say this. [TS]

  The computer that is really great if you're not loading up to full blast every day constantly you know if a full blast [TS]

  on the C. Fuse or G P U's is an occasional thing then that's great and I want be a problem. [TS]

  You know that's a concern about this for gaming is with people who game like spend just hours with everything going [TS]

  full tilt right and that I would be concerned if you doing a first person shooter just just hours [TS]

  and hours a day for months and months on end and people are saying about the old time act problem [TS]

  and other things that it doesn't it doesn't kill it right away [TS]

  but like by the time you're Apple Care runs out if you bought like a couple extra years of Apple Care just around that [TS]

  point just from the constant constant running at a very high temperature [TS]

  and what they're saying of the shortens life of the components [TS]

  and if the gaming conformance was like this where it's like mostly faster than the previous Toppan [TS]

  but not really by much and a few benchmarks is a little bit under you know like OK if it was like also lower power [TS]

  and cooler and quieter [TS]

  but it's like it seems almost like a downgrade whereas the previous one got similar benchmark numbers running it at a [TS]

  lower indicated temperature according to whatever the sensors are gives the feeling that one of my one of my doing all [TS]

  the stuff or more more recall more of the RAM I guess because I don't think of them at four gigs but it's not. [TS]

  This doesn't look like a good G.P.U. [TS]

  Upgrade from the previous one it's more kind of like a lateral movement best right [TS]

  and this is I mean I continue to believe you know like if you if you're looking at the MAC line up with the goal of [TS]

  playing games like playing you know high end games a lot I think you're going to be sad. [TS]

  And there's there's not a lot of you know of greatness that like a best case scenario is you buy a MacPro which is [TS]

  spending a lot of money for a video card that actually isn't very good at gaming like they can do it [TS]

  but it's like you're not getting your money's worth on the video card because that's not really what you're paying for [TS]

  you know paying for gaming ability on the macros. You know five thousand dollars purchase price. [TS]

  So really I continue to say that. Your best choice if you want to play P.C. [TS]

  Games is to either settle for a game console or build a gaming P.C. [TS]

  Because it's a high council of modern equipment for P.C. Games people won't buy P.C. [TS]

  Games in a keyboard no mouse right. So then build a gaming P.C. It's it's like you can build a great gaming P.C. [TS]

  For twelve hundred bucks. I wouldn't call it great. [TS]

  Well better if you want to match the current mac pro with its with its best video card option. [TS]

  I bet you could build a gaming P.C. [TS]

  That that has roughly similar game performance of that for a total of five my head I would say fifteen or less. [TS]

  Now you're going to want to have a performance I already say a great P.C. [TS]

  Like the reason people buy a Macas they're not just interested in what is the frame rate for amount of money. [TS]

  I got easily they were just taking you under there [TS]

  but what you're looking for from a mac is like the whole package you want it nice and elegant [TS]

  and not of extraneous stuff in your shirt all work together and you know how to worry about driver issues. [TS]

  Looks nice and in the case of the proto quietened is cool and interesting and all that stuff you know. [TS]

  So macro is still the best gaming mac which is sad because it's got like you said or not. [TS]

  Not a great video card for gaming. You just pay from the amount of money for it. [TS]

  Anyway speaking of better deals in that paragraph you sweet buyer friends at Squarespace squarespace dot com [TS]

  and enter offer code A.T.P. At checkout to get ten percent off Squarespace start here. [TS]

  Go anywhere new slogan I like it. [TS]

  They just they usually Squarespace seven this is a big update Squarespace lets you build a website [TS]

  and a host your Web site and they let you design a web site [TS]

  and edit your website you can put all sorts of stuff on your website you can you know they give you beautiful designs. [TS]

  Everything is simple and powerful. [TS]

  Everything is drag [TS]

  and drop customizable extremely easy to use if you do need help they have support twenty four seven e-mail support [TS]

  and live chat they are necessary seven added a whole bunch of new stuff editing your pages done live right on the site [TS]

  like your site kind of slides over slightly and as a little side. [TS]

  It comes in and you can edit your page literally right there live on your page. [TS]

  It's like what you see is what you get taken to the extreme [TS]

  and then you can also do things like you can simulate i Phone size i Pad size you can see all these different devices [TS]

  you can see here's how your site and hair change look and there are screens which is really nice. [TS]

  Seven also added a really cool partnership with Getty Images we're now if you have let's say you're making a post [TS]

  and need an image for a blog post [TS]

  or you need like a stock image for for the background of your site for the header for for you know a special page [TS]

  or making a bit of [TS]

  or Squarespace work at this awesome deal where forty million of these photos are available within square space with [TS]

  this awesome U.I. and You just pay ten bucks one time to use an image and that's it. [TS]

  You pay the ten bucks to use the image that you want and it's up there forever. [TS]

  They also have cover pages and grasp a seven where if you want to put up a temporary [TS]

  or permanent like splash page before you enter your site you can have a whole different designs nearest your site look [TS]

  really cool and trendy and if you're if you want to promote a special event that you're doing [TS]

  or a sale that you're having or a new thing of yours launch [TS]

  or a major announcement you can do all that with a cover page [TS]

  and they just look fantastic I can't I can't possibly over explain to you how great all this stuff looks [TS]

  but you can also host a store they have commerce that's new but it's still really cool. [TS]

  Anyway all this is great go to square space sort of. You can start a free trial with no credit card required. [TS]

  Start building your Web site today. When you decide to sign up make sure to use the opportunity A.T.P. [TS]

  To get ten percent off your first purchase and to show your support for our show we thank you very much. [TS]

  Squarespace start here. Go anywhere so let's talk about trim for second. [TS]

  We brought this up last episode with regard to Jon's new purchase and we got some feedback about that John. [TS]

  Yes this from a former Apple engineer something we didn't mention on that show [TS]

  but it's worth clarifying if in case people were wondering why is it that apple. [TS]

  Only supports a nationally supported frame on its own drives and to this day still doesn't support their party drives. [TS]

  Is it a punitive thing where Apple wants you to buy their drives [TS]

  and doesn't want to support Tremont they're buying drives. [TS]

  No not really the reason they don't support trim on third party drives the same reason Apple is a part of third party [TS]

  stuff is you know they want to they want to decrease their their support burdens they sort of qualify [TS]

  and they whitelist which devices they can send them to master [TS]

  and the former Apple engineer says that in the first two years of a tram showed up as a thing a lot of the flash [TS]

  controllers out there had firmware they would trim the wrong range of blocks so the O. [TS]

  Us would tell it to trim a certain set of locks and it would do it like off by one [TS]

  or even worse there is taking logical block numbers and using them as physical block numbers with no mappings [TS]

  and there was other bugs like not invalidating the trim in the queue of Hill later right was given for the block so [TS]

  lots of basically bugs that if Apple simply said Oh we'll support remember where [TS]

  and will send the correct from commands to any third party drive you plug [TS]

  and that would be bad because Abdullah knew for a fact that they heard many buggy drives out there that would do bad [TS]

  things using the trim command some which could result in data loss so what they did is a typical Apple thing of they [TS]

  made sure that their own as if these days shipped work with a trim command that some of them the internal question put [TS]

  firmware that Apple wrote or from or that they could get in source code form and could modify and later on [TS]

  when some firmware came from vendors that was OK Apple white listed and so basically if you connect and S.S.D. [TS]

  To us ten. [TS]

  If it's not one of the ones that Apple is absolutely sure is going to behave correctly either because they wrote the [TS]

  firmware or they qualified it as an internal drive or they white listed as the third party exact their party make [TS]

  and model and the drive that works correctly. They don't do it and that is the most conservative approach. [TS]

  Each and the safest approach [TS]

  but I could probably also guess that Apple does not spend a lot of its time buying every single third party S.S.D. [TS]

  Testing it's true and support and increase you know increasing the size of that white list. [TS]

  Which is why you know the third party have hacked the trim unable [TS]

  or thing is out there if you feel like you have a drive that you're sure response correctly to dream commands [TS]

  and would benefit from using them you could use that enabler [TS]

  but then you're somebody there the kernel you know extension signing thing listen the previous show for all details on [TS]

  that. [TS]

  So if I if anyone thought that our description last week was implying that Apple was malicious in this case at worst [TS]

  you could say they're lazy because they're not by buying [TS]

  and qualifying every single drive so they can increase sizes of their [TS]

  or their white list that at best they're just being to go conservative Apple [TS]

  and trying to keep their their driver burden. [TS]

  So and I think a couple other people send information about [TS]

  but I think a little bit is last week the utility of the trim command may [TS]

  or may not be lessons depending on the little storage computer that's inside of it your S.S.D. [TS]

  Is and how it manages storage again the Dr can't know when when blocks are freed up for use [TS]

  but it can make more intelligent decisions about right leveling and stuff like that. [TS]

  So as I said last week I am open to the idea that my Samsung eight fifty pro that I have will eventually get super slow [TS]

  and I'm also open to the idea that if that happens it's possible that enabling trim using this hack will solve the [TS]

  problem for me. [TS]

  But intil the first problem happens I am not interested in the experiment of discovering whether the second thing solve [TS]

  the problem or causes more and then do we want to briefly talk about whether [TS]

  or not the six plus the selling well it wasn't like last week that that fifty fifty number came from the team mobile [TS]

  C.E.O. or Something he was six six plus seem to be in about even numbers and you know who knows what that means from T. [TS]

  Mobile Here's another one from this. [TS]

  Local Linux company that is some kind of Apple as a company [TS]

  and they gave numbers that are closer to my my original prediction. [TS]

  I think right after the phones were announced that I expected the six to weigh out so I was exposed [TS]

  and local that excess of the six is outselling six plus six to one. [TS]

  And as usual Apple has nothing so we don't know about what's going on the show not now we have to stream Lee wildly [TS]

  varying guesses both from unreliable sources. [TS]

  But I'm still very curious I mean one of you guys seem like out in the wild [TS]

  when you've seen people dive on sectors what is your ratio of spotting exposes the sexes. [TS]

  I don't go outside I mean a chicken salad nobody in line at the deli has I have not seen a single six plus in the deli. [TS]

  Yeah I've seen a handful of six pluses such true. [TS]

  I think I've seen only one or two and I know a handful of people that have them and I remember [TS]

  when I was asking around. Around the time that everyone was making purchases. [TS]

  So I was asking around amongst all of our friends like Mike Hurley and Ben Thompson and Ray Ritchie [TS]

  and all of them at that point I would say it was like you third sixes one third six plusses although I did I do believe [TS]

  some of these people have relented in going to six from six plus. [TS]

  So I'd say it's not six to one but certainly allow a few to not many if that makes any sense. [TS]

  First time I saw six plus in person was this weekend when I went into the Apple store to look at the five make [TS]

  and I've seen lots of sixes and person from you know co-workers and people walking around [TS]

  but never seen a success before. [TS]

  They're you know science from accident here anyway so the bottom line we still have no idea. [TS]

  And you know and I'm still curious and maybe Apple tells us someday. [TS]

  We're also sponsored by mandrill mandrel is from the wonderful people at Mail Chimp mandrel. [TS]

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  It's now the largest e-mail as a service platform. [TS]

  They didn't advertise it or they didn't abbreviate e-mail either service like I know I've seen like a lot of something. [TS]

  A.S. I guess it would be easy access which wouldn't be very good for that and reviewed it anyway. [TS]

  Email Service it's great so what mandrel is you can send automated one to one e-mail like the password reset log of [TS]

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  Dot com from a code accidental tech get fifty thousand free e-mail sent per month. The first six months of service. [TS]

  So thanks what a mandrill. It's a great email instructor service from the people at Mail Chimp. [TS]

  So Marco You recently released an updated overcast and I'd like to hear about that. [TS]

  But most specifically I'd like to hear about this car play thing that apparently you had it. [TS]

  Yes I had Car Play All right moving on so I might know how did that come to be. [TS]

  Because my understanding of Car Play is that's not the sort of thing you can just decide you want to be a part of. [TS]

  So how did that how did that happen what do you what are you willing to share. [TS]

  Well I started asking people at Apple How do I become a car play Apple [TS]

  and over time I eventually got to the right person and got to the process [TS]

  and I was a much less exciting so it was a pretty an exciting process to be honest I mean like I don't I'm not sure if [TS]

  I can really reveal the details but they're not that exciting like I asked around for a long time. [TS]

  And vengefully got in. That's that's the stuff. [TS]

  So how do you get you posted a picture of the low like screen car screen thingy that you have looked up to the [TS]

  converter so you can feed it troubles the see what is that. [TS]

  Why did you buy it was it a recommended thing did it come as part of the program all that stuff. [TS]

  It is exactly as boring as the story as you would imagine. [TS]

  I wanted to test on real car play hardware before I released it. [TS]

  So I went to Best Buy and bought the cheapest car radio that supported car play [TS]

  and I bought a cheap twelve volt power supply on Amazon for twenty bucks and I brought it home plugged it in tested it. [TS]

  Does your car support Power Point any your correspondent know well so you can actually use the car wasn't as a matter [TS]

  of you don't want to be sitting in the garage with the road every you want out on gas [TS]

  but you don't even have anything we can use so this is a feature you're not even going to use yourself the only way. [TS]

  Or ever going to use it on your desk in front of a screen. Correct. [TS]

  I did it because the effort to reward ratio I thought was worth it it's very it was very low effort. [TS]

  You know it was it was a lot of you know asking. [TS]

  But that's like you know you send an e-mail every few months I mean it was nothing of a problem. [TS]

  But then the actual implementation of it is very very simple because Car Play apps are limited the A.P.I. [TS]

  Is that you use as a Card Play app are public you can go see them right now it's the M P. Playable content manager. [TS]

  I think that's the car play P I for third party audio apps. [TS]

  So you know and the Apple program simply gets you approved to use that [TS]

  and to to be integrated properly with with the crappy receivers like to appear on their homes you know everything the [TS]

  the interface that your app has to Car Play is very very simple. If you look at the M.P. Content or M.P. [TS]

  Playable countermeasure thing that's it like that is you basically provide a hierarchical menu like the old i Pods [TS]

  where you have like items and you click on the item into there right now you're at this level of the tree [TS]

  and one of the items for this level of the tree in is this one playable or not it is a popular man you liked [TS]

  and that's that's about it. It's very very simple. So because of that it's actually very easy to test. [TS]

  I don't I don't I don't feel the need to be in this myself full time to really to really make sure it's working [TS]

  properly I think it's kind of a contest only occasionally and it works just fine. [TS]

  That's about it and I don't I don't know how many car play compatible vehicles [TS]

  and head units are out there yet I have no idea. [TS]

  I'm sure it's on a huge number but it was it was relatively easy to do [TS]

  and for the people who do have it it matters quite a bit. [TS]

  So [TS]

  and I was I was you know one of the reasons why I kept asking Apple about this is because you know I was interested from [TS]

  the beginning [TS]

  but whenever the car play stuff first becoming available to customers I think it was like two months ago a few months [TS]

  ago it was fairly recent [TS]

  but ever since that point I've had people ask people ask me on Twitter almost every day hey why do you. [TS]

  More car play like the handful of people who have Car Play radios. [TS]

  Apparently a big portion of these overcast and we're very upset I wasn't supported properly on there yet so get it. [TS]

  So it it matters a lot to a small number of people [TS]

  and it was very easy to do so that's why I have forgotten so much about car players require you to connect with a wire [TS]

  still or can you are listening. I believe it's wired only that I mean the radio. [TS]

  I sat on it much about the radio I got which is the pioneer app Radio four which is now it's called the aberrated [TS]

  before in so many places except the box or any part of pioneer website where it's called the F P H D A. [TS]

  One twenty you know this is great consumer electronics stuff. [TS]

  People keep asking me if I recommend that when the answer is I have no idea. I literally only use it for this purpose. [TS]

  I find most third party car radios to be pretty tacky and and kind of overly happy with things like blue menus. [TS]

  This is no exception. So I'm I'm just not a good person to ask about that. So I have no idea. [TS]

  I cannot I am because I'm not using it in a car. [TS]

  I can't tell you about things like the utility of the other functions like don't do that a U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector here is connecting an apple like U.S.B. Lighting thing in it and that's all there is to it. [TS]

  That's exactly right and for the car play thing. [TS]

  Could you have basically implemented all this functionality before getting approval from Apple [TS]

  and like is the thing you got from Apple simply permission to upload an app to the App Store that they won't reject [TS]

  because it uses a card player. [TS]

  Yes Yes And I did in fact I wrote this code months ago when [TS]

  when a car play be in fact this code was in overcast one point it just was inactive because at the time it went [TS]

  when the when the M.P. Playable Content Manager A.P.I. First came out. [TS]

  Card Play wasn't I don't think it was officially announced early it was announced in the same event [TS]

  but the documentation of that now says this is for car play.. [TS]

  Didn't I didn't explain it it just said this is for like certain types of A.V. [TS]

  It's and receivers [TS]

  and everything so I thought I wonder if their likes like a special like made for i Pod receiver where like if there's [TS]

  like a home theater receiver that can display this hierarchical menu I'm creating. [TS]

  So I thought there was going to be something else out there besides car play that could show this maybe in homes [TS]

  or ever. So I thought maybe I should get an eye on that and make make sure that I work properly on those things. [TS]

  So I wrote this code months ago and had no way to test it. [TS]

  No hardware that would actually interact with that [TS]

  and nothing I couldn't find any information on it so I guess I basically commented out. [TS]

  I just didn't instantiate the class it manages this in my code in versions one point three one point four. [TS]

  Well OK I really thought I was going to be a lot more drama there. [TS]

  You think about it you would think that if Apple was really interested in getting Like why was it why would it be this [TS]

  process that takes you months. [TS]

  Because of you know I don't think it would be just as easy to join the car plaything as it is to operate out of the App [TS]

  Store like the App Store is successful because hey anybody with a couple bucks kin sign up as a developer write an app [TS]

  with our free tools and upload it and now you're on the App Store [TS]

  and there you go over his car play seems like a much harder system to get into [TS]

  and doesn't make any sense of Apple's interested in carpooling becoming a thing [TS]

  but maybe not maybe just like the version one point [TS]

  or they're not that interested in getting too many people to fiddle with it I don't know the problem with car stuff is [TS]

  there's major concerns with safety and driver distraction and secondarily There's also a lot of laws [TS]

  and the laws vary in different countries and sometimes even different states [TS]

  but the laws vary on like you know what what kind of interaction is legal to provide to a driver while the car's in [TS]

  motion whether you like animations and you kind of moving content is permitted [TS]

  or not permitted in certain contexts certain places all these there are so many regulations for [TS]

  and just simply just concerns for safety because it's you know this is pretty serious stuff like you don't want you [TS]

  don't want. [TS]

  I have somebody like simulating Angry Birds in the dashboard display by like changing your item artwork every half [TS]

  second or whatever it's like crazy ways that these kind of systems could be abused. [TS]

  Certainly app review could probably catch a lot of that [TS]

  but I don't know how much our preview is testing car play I can understand of Apple wants to be cautious. [TS]

  Likely I can understand why this might not be open to everybody [TS]

  and so so seems kind of weird to me like like you said that's the whole point of Apur a view [TS]

  and if they're not you know if ever a view is the bottleneck like what was the point to you know if this is a thing [TS]

  that they want to happen they should be paying more money for more people to review more carefully like you know that [TS]

  there are medical applications in the App Store somehow that seems OK [TS]

  but I don't I just it's not a formula for success survival really says like you know if Karpal I had to make a strategy [TS]

  statement and it was like car play in every car in the world by you know by ten years [TS]

  and I were never like that's obviously not what they're going for it just seems like they are it seems like a hobby [TS]

  like Apple T.V. [TS]

  Used to be like we have a car solution is a thing since Ferrari's I guess and also Honda's maybe [TS]

  but we're not that into it you know because there is value for there is that sort of adversarial sort of standoffish [TS]

  relationship with the car makers themselves trying to sort out how are we going to arrive at current theories that [TS]

  aren't terrible. [TS]

  As we discussed at length on a drill right well [TS]

  and also like you know similar to like all the concerns that you know that Apple [TS]

  or AT makers should have about liability [TS]

  and safety problems the car makers have their own concerns too like if you're driving a B.M.W. [TS]

  Using Angry Birds simulated in car play are orc and you crash so many people are upset about that [TS]

  and it's so many people's problem. You know it's obviously your problem in a lot of ways. [TS]

  Your family might have to deal with things. It's Apple's problem it's the apps problem it's B M. [TS]

  Use problem like the bad P.R. and Lawsuit and everything can fly out of different directions. [TS]

  Everyone has to has to really cover their own butts here [TS]

  and I really can't blame anybody in this situation from for being overly cautious because it is something that should [TS]

  be taken seriously. Yeah. [TS]

  Than someone who thinks her covered or like the screens they come up [TS]

  when I start my car that are press OK to agree that you shouldn't look at the screen when you're driving [TS]

  and if you do that and the screen goes away and don't you don't actually have to present it [TS]

  but like Google like one screen you type of thing [TS]

  or just it's it's meaningless nobody reads it it just becomes a constant annoyance this is actually what one of the [TS]

  things that makes one of the many things that maybe like driving a car the noise like the past covering messages that [TS]

  you're just going to see for the entire life of the car they will have no effect on how you use the car and noticed [TS]

  and probably no effect legally speaking because I get absolved anybody from you know anyway. [TS]

  It's stupid I don't like it. [TS]

  Yet my car shows me a license agreement with time I started that so bad press it press agreed to drive. Yeah. [TS]

  Better news is we're also sponsored this week once again by our friends at hover not hover not Hoover not hard for [TS]

  Hoover it's our friends at Hoover something else this is up [TS]

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  and hover hover is a domain registrar that doesn't suck. [TS]

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  job done. You can find a pervert demanding yes or no. I don't know about you guys. [TS]

  When I have a new idea for a project if I don't have a name [TS]

  and if I don't have the domain name bought Lee I can start working on it blocks me from working on it. [TS]

  It's I know it sounds stupid but like the name of a project is very important to me [TS]

  and I always think about first I try to get that nailed down first. [TS]

  If you are like that hover is your friend if you're not like that I will be your friend later. [TS]

  But regardless however will be your friend at some point. Cover is designed by you know developers people like us. [TS]

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  but It's also very friendly for people who are like they have this amazing support they have telephone support even you [TS]

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  they're also just really good. Anyway however you do use powerful tools to manage a domain name. [TS]

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  If you needed him a name just go there next they have a great search they have like those like word generation [TS]

  algorithms so like if you if what you search for is not available anywhere then they'll suggest different rewordings of [TS]

  it or synonyms or modifications that are available it's pretty it's pretty good. [TS]

  So I was asking a lot of attempts this kind of word tricks. [TS]

  However I think does it best to say [TS]

  and I have tried this before other sites hovers weird word trick thing works better than the other ones I've tried. [TS]

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  Casey needs an app to get ten percent off your first purchase thank you very much to hover for sponsoring our show. [TS]

  All right so today was somewhat unexpectedly at least for me big. [TS]

  They in my world because Microsoft has an open sourced [TS]

  or has said they're going to open source a considerable fortune dot net and not only open source it [TS]

  but bring it to be cross-platform. [TS]

  And this is to me a pretty darn big deal and it's probably not going to change my day to day life very much. [TS]

  But it's a very interesting statement from a company that very much didn't believe that there were platforms other than [TS]

  Windows. [TS]

  And so what they did today is they said they're going to open source a few additional components of dot net [TS]

  and the best write up I found in a few minutes I had a look at this was by Miguel de cause I hope I pronounce that [TS]

  right he is the head and I believe founder of the Mano project which is a project to take dot net [TS]

  and make it cross-platform. [TS]

  And what they were doing was what's the term for when you don't look at any sort of source [TS]

  and you don't reverse compile or anything like that you just seen room for us and they're going room whatever. [TS]

  Thank you sir. [TS]

  So they were doing a clean room version of dot net and then over time as Microsoft is open source a little bit here [TS]

  and there they would incorporate those as licensing would permit. [TS]

  Well we'll put a link to the gals post in the show notes. [TS]

  But basically he breaks it down [TS]

  and there are three things that are being open source a Dot Net Framework libraries Stardock or framework libraries [TS]

  and the right you git which sounds like a duke in to me but anyway V.M. [TS]

  and So the framework class libraries is basically. [TS]

  So if you think of dot net as both a series of languages [TS]

  and then the the class library that it that these languages sit on top of [TS]

  or I guess maybe vice versa for them to release the Dot Net Framework classes. That's a really big deal. [TS]

  And so if you want to see how all of this all of Dot Net all of the foundational stuff in Dot Net is implemented you [TS]

  can go and check it out. [TS]

  And so that they they're open sourcing going from a class library Stanek [TS]

  or which as Miguel says the Donna Corps a redesigned version of dot net that is based on the simplified version of the [TS]

  quest libraries as well as a design that allows for Dot Net to be incorporated into applications [TS]

  and this should sound a lot like and I'm going to get the is a clanger L Z M That's that's leveraged within X. [TS]

  Code not just for compilation but for just in time stuff. [TS]

  Not quite I think it's just that the underlying library of good power both the client compiler [TS]

  and exco don't know what you call the library someone probably knows now it's right the point is you can build you know [TS]

  tools that leverage the compiler not like in like an ID for example. [TS]

  So anyway so all this stuff is going to show up and get hurt. [TS]

  I was poking around get home earlier tonight and not all of it's there yet but it's certainly going to arrive there [TS]

  and there's also a good post on the official Microsoft log post about all of this [TS]

  and it talks about how it's kind of almost an F.A.Q. [TS]

  You know why don't we open source tonic or why are we doing it on get her [TS]

  and one of the things they said was in this is from a blog post as a principle we don't want to ask the community to [TS]

  come to where we are. [TS]

  Instead we want to go to where the community already is [TS]

  and so they're going to get hub all of this stuff is going to show up [TS]

  and it's it's funny because on the one side from my day to day like I said earlier I don't think it's going to change a [TS]

  darn thing except maybe I could use dot net on a West Ham and without using mana [TS]

  but I mean whatever I don't really think know why I would want to do that but I think it's it. [TS]

  It indicates a pretty big shift in Microsoft away from the windows is everything [TS]

  and there's nothing else in the world mentality and that's what I think I'm most amped up about [TS]

  but what does this make possible that wasn't possible before because Monaco is already cross-platform sure. [TS]

  So anything that. [TS]

  Well now I can use you know stay sharp [TS]

  and Dot Net to write applications that run on platforms of them I know you already kind of could with nano work [TS]

  and I don't quite understand all of them. You know other than very good. [TS]

  All those things that Moto had to you know exam or had a clean room reverse engineer [TS]

  and reimplement that now they don't have to anymore they're going to take the actual source and incorporated. [TS]

  But does this make anything new possible that wasn't possible before or feasible like it was possible before [TS]

  but you'd be worried about how supported it was an hour I saw said it's going to be officially supported that I think [TS]

  Internet on the head it's that it's no longer third party it's not first party and you go back to me else blog post [TS]

  and I'm quoting now We have a product under way that actually let me back up I'm sorry. [TS]

  Model will be able to use as much as it wants from this project we have a project underway that already does this. [TS]

  We are replacing chunks of mano code that was either incomplete buggy [TS]

  or not as fully featured as it should be with Microsoft's code so it certainly will improve mottos robustness [TS]

  reliability decrease in bugs etc But on the surface I agree with you John that it doesn't really necessarily enable [TS]

  anything that wasn't there already the only thing I can think of that might be a bit different is I haven't looked [TS]

  closely at monomers Amarin in a long time [TS]

  but if you wanted to hypothetically run an ASP NET web site on something other than I.I.S. [TS]

  I would assume that as part of this open sourcing of among other things a subpoena that you could do that on top of [TS]

  like apache [TS]

  or something like that without necessarily having to leverage mano I think Moto has done this at least in part in the [TS]

  past but certainly it should be easier now or well in the future. [TS]

  Yeah that was last night's question [TS]

  but like not included in this rating incorrectly is any of the sort of the GUI libraries that you use to make [TS]

  applications for Windows. Right windows. [TS]

  Forms I've not seen any mention of [TS]

  and so I believe you are correct that this is all kind of faithful service I stuff some for the service I stuff like [TS]

  world start so I can you know ASP NET is here if I can build something I don't know [TS]

  and you build various be done at the like I don't know what the guy looks like [TS]

  but I don't understand the deployment outside of I do you just build like a library that gets loaded I don't I have no [TS]

  idea I've never done anything involving dot net inside Apache. [TS]

  Well that's the thing and I'm not sure either but [TS]

  but the theory is is that there's nothing stopping you from writing some sort of glue between Apache [TS]

  and the ASP NET deal Els or whatever output that comes from that you know Horatio Boston [TS]

  and Jerome says that one new thing is possible is that you could use Visual Studio to build something that doesn't run [TS]

  on Windows you can build an executable that runs on our tent. [TS]

  That's the thing with this kind of like you know if you want to use X. [TS]

  Code you have to use a macro if you do if you want to. [TS]

  I think that's still the case for all these open source components like can you can use anything other than Visual [TS]

  Studio or does Amarin stuff to build this like [TS]

  and you just like a mac command line thing it is run like you've got to be I guess right. [TS]

  Well I don't think there is [TS]

  but there are open sourcing I believe there are open sourcing Rosalyn which is their compiler stuff there already did [TS]

  that [TS]

  but I don't like I was wondering if like practically speaking does that mean that you can get a command prompt in a bunch [TS]

  of files [TS]

  and start compiling source code on your mac that runs on your macro did you need to basically do you need Windows you [TS]

  need Visual Studio Visual Studio the idea [TS]

  and that's what you need to compile the stuff I don't know how far people have gone [TS]

  and taken the open source compiler [TS]

  and trying to make it so that you could actually do development of faceless non gooey applications on the DOD that [TS]

  stack using only a mac and not having a Windows machine anywhere. [TS]

  Right I understand the question [TS]

  and I was far as I know the only mac native compiler binary that exists is Manas compiler [TS]

  but I mean you've got the entire source Rosalyn So in principle you could although it is self hosted. [TS]

  Oh yeah I guess that is a little weird you know. [TS]

  That would work but I'm sure someone is or has done it I don't know [TS]

  but this is interesting it's really an interesting move it's something that I didn't expect from Microsoft even though [TS]

  this is sort of been going on for a while now. [TS]

  It took me a little bit by surprise that this much was going to get open source this quickly [TS]

  and the only somewhat crummy thing about it which I understand [TS]

  but they said publicly in one of these posts that this isn't about fur for a lot of the projects that they're open [TS]

  sourcing this isn't about asking for poll requests [TS]

  and making a true community project it was more just saying hey if you want to fork it here it is [TS]

  but we are going to continue forward in our own way [TS]

  and that that's the way it's going to be is a hardening in the same way that Apple's recent sort of opening up [TS]

  and doing things that previously they seem not interested in doing even extensions or third party you boards and [TS]

  or whatever [TS]

  and i OS This is another thing that people have always wanted bikers up to do like take the core part of your stack [TS]

  and make it open source for the same reasons that kind of the same reasons that Apple has open source the core part of [TS]

  its O.S. [TS]

  and Everything over hopefully with better results [TS]

  and that like the lower level stuff there's not much competitive advantage to keeping that closed source [TS]

  and there's a lot of advantage to people developing on your platform [TS]

  and to you as a platform maker to make it open source even if you don't get that much a benefit of other people. [TS]

  Every little bit helps [TS]

  and it just makes it feel like it's a more it's a development environment you can see what's going on the fewer black [TS]

  boxes the better like you are debunking something it would be nice to be able to have the source code all the stuff. [TS]

  here about you know I was here that's not the case on the Macin never has been is not the case I O. S. [TS]

  There's some parts of it open source that eventually get into cocoa and you like it get all that stuff [TS]

  and that's not open source [TS]

  and I bet that would be great if that was stupid like so the at the balancer of these these companies think they have [TS]

  to balance what source do we keep close [TS]

  and what source to be opened UP because there's no advantage just keeping a close than Microsoft. I'm not surprise. [TS]

  It's because things like Microsoft as long since realize that keeping the stuff like as people stop paying attention to [TS]

  you as you are no longer the the big dog in the market and you're not by Microsoft they rule the entire P.C. [TS]

  Industry like they don't anymore like mobiles are important. Microsoft is not on mobile. [TS]

  If you continue to act like you are the most important company [TS]

  and you're never going to show your crown jewels it's making you less and less relevant. [TS]

  If you want to bring people back to your camp you have to be more open. [TS]

  It's not a power play it's more of a realisation of the new shape of the market and I think it's helpful ideas [TS]

  and how that how will that affect your job. [TS]

  Maybe you'll come across something where you have some bug and you can't figure out what's going on [TS]

  and it'll be useful to be able to step there in the debunker a bunch of bottom level dot net code stepping to the [TS]

  source maybe you could've already done that anyway because I think your source was already available takers [TS]

  but it wasn't available in a way that was open source that could be integrated so I don't know. [TS]

  Microsoft is just hoping that people will build on this [TS]

  and it will become a foundation for lots of other projects I mean the best thing that could happen to them is someone [TS]

  finally takes this core stuff and build some great new thing on top of that because they can [TS]

  and they couldn't before like you didn't want to deal that stuff that we need we need a language runtime then we need a [TS]

  good compiler and we want to be able to do [TS]

  or develop it a nice idea we're going to use that as a jumping off point to build some bigger better thing [TS]

  but I don't know what the odds of that happening are but they're nonzero now I guess. [TS]

  So just for grins and giggles Let's say that Swift is not a thing. It's not even in progress. Would Apple have used C. [TS]

  Sharp and or dot net to become what reason. [TS]

  Now Swift I think the answer is absolutely not because they want total control but. [TS]

  But let's assume that well they get that they can have total control of this conveyer. [TS]

  I think there's going to be pieces that are missing in the same way that she what is it that that is a door [TS]

  when you see open source open source projects. But Ma and am I getting that backwards not I'm thinking of. [TS]

  You could build most of the West handle they just like the closed source drivers [TS]

  and I really like things for a DUI that is proprietary because a bunch of like legal stuff that's like they're hiding [TS]

  that stuff which is that any code that involves an ending that involves code that is owned by companies other than [TS]

  Apple like you know video card makers [TS]

  or even like the bus drivers that aren't open source you can't build a seventy kernel from the open source because it's [TS]

  just stuff the sun included in there but for ownership like cage the mail was not owned by Apple [TS]

  but they took it fork and ran with it whether it is on my babble you know I mean so they could [TS]

  but I think that Apple would not adopt this open source [TS]

  and I just because I know enough about the people involved in the process this is not what they want so it's not so [TS]

  much that oh we will take in dot net If only it was open source there. [TS]

  Swift is a different direction right Swift is not sure how a language runtime it is not garbage collection it is you [TS]

  know it is so many things that it's not so for that reason alone they wouldn't take it [TS]

  but if the current set of people who make this is that Apple did not work at all [TS]

  but a different set of people who did this would change the math on can we adopt. [TS]

  NET suddenly become a lot more viable and then OK so I agree with you completely there. [TS]

  Now what is his name Andy Rubin is just creating Android today. Android does not exist yet. [TS]

  Does he still use don't call it Java Java. [TS]

  They picked they picked something that was not owned by them at that time you know sort of invented by sun [TS]

  and like they're in a legal fight with Oracle over the copywriting A.P.I. [TS]

  Isn't even though they're using a different V.M. [TS]

  That they wrote themselves like they already had the thing that they did end up taking Java that's not a clean then [TS]

  make a clean get away with that legally speaking. So I don't see how that is any worse. [TS]

  Their official strategy was just steal it. We'll worry about it later. [TS]

  Yeah this feeling like I think it's in the hole can you cover it and they did. Excuse me just rip it. [TS]

  Off we'll worry about it we kind of like clean room reimplementation visit like we know like there's a specter the [TS]

  public's back up there we're going to make our own V.M. [TS]

  I'm I'm assuming they didn't use any source code from any of the Java Virtual Machines that is their own thing that [TS]

  does things in a different way it's all just of like oh well you implemented it all yourself [TS]

  and you roll your own source code but the A.B.I. [TS]

  The functions the parameters the you know all that that's copyrighted so they basically did a cleaner implementation of [TS]

  Java I don't know the details are like. [TS]

  You can argue about what things got used where but I don't I don't like the idea of an A.P.I. Being published A.B.I. [TS]

  Being copyrighted so I'm not going to blame Google for doing this [TS]

  but privately speaking No I don't see how dot net The current owners are stunned that could possibly be any worse than [TS]

  than the situation they're currently in with job so [TS]

  and I think it would be a better choice for them than job because they would have to do less work like they could take [TS]

  the virtual machine everything free [TS]

  and clear like it's an open source license that's not like we have to reimplement it right. [TS]

  So and I also like fish are better than Java so that you know well that's the thing is that C. [TS]

  Sharp You know I've talked in the past to a handful of people about how C. Sharp really is good in most. [TS]

  Most worldly developers in the Apple community at least appreciate it if not agree with me. [TS]

  But there's there's certainly some that are like oh God it's Microsoft I can't stand it now. And C. [TS]

  Sharp really is a really really great really robust language [TS]

  and it's even though it tries to be in many ways all things to all people. [TS]

  It actually does a pretty darn good job of it all in all and it's moving forward [TS]

  but not at breakneck pace so it's moving forward in a way that's sustainable. [TS]

  There's not bugs everywhere at least in any of the things that I touch in my day to day life. [TS]

  It's a really robust language and as much as I don't have that much love for Microsoft I really do love C. [TS]

  Sharp end and if I were to just flip the switch and becoming full time. I'm Objective C. or Swift developer tomorrow. [TS]

  There's certainly things about C. [TS]

  Sharp that I would miss and there's a lot and I really think they got it right [TS]

  and so I'm very curious to see does this change how C. Sharp is treated. [TS]

  Not for me like oh it's good or Oh it's bad like you're saying earlier John is somebody going to take C. [TS]

  Sharp and really run with it in the future. [TS]

  Or I mean strictly speaking I guess you could do that with these well I mean dot net is more than just C. [TS]

  Sharp [TS]

  but I'm not I'm curious to see what this brings I think it's unlikely because the sharpest kind of like this there is a [TS]

  C. Sharp is I think nicer than Java's because a got to learn the lessons of Java. [TS]

  Sure and so someone went first made a bunch of mistakes didn't make the same mistakes [TS]

  and I think the shop has been developed steadily with a with a little bit more a little more singular vision let's say [TS]

  instead of the sort of committee design of Java it seems to be lurching forward and not quite as confident a way [TS]

  but at this point both of those languages are of a vintage that people like. [TS]

  I want to say people are more likely to build something and swiftness with a suddenly open source [TS]

  but the kinds of projects that get built like the kind of applications seems like the C.L.R. [TS]

  Is most appropriate for as I would guess server side stuff and like the client side stuff [TS]

  but like I can imagine the Web The Next Web Kit a killer being implemented in C. Sharp on top of a dot net. [TS]

  Right but just because it seems like it's still there still this thing [TS]

  and we can't quite get away from it of like you're going to use C C plus plus [TS]

  or one of these new breed of languages like swift that aims to be as fast as them to give you high level can means as [TS]

  soon as you go up [TS]

  and do something with garbage collection like server side is totally OK with it which is weird because every side is [TS]

  like the performance is so demanding there in terms of you know a specific a specific performance profiles. [TS]

  They're not quite the same thing as a GUI application. [TS]

  But for I think of Linux and the open source people I don't see them latching on to see shoppers there. [TS]

  Why I mean that there are the people who are going crazy with you to get everything so they still seem to be stuck in [TS]

  sort of a lower level mindset so I'm not sure maybe only one more generation of people to wake up [TS]

  and say I'm going to write a new great thing and I'm not going to do and see a plus plus or say [TS]

  when I was you see sharp it's like we need the infrastructure to be there for us me like every Linux distribution to [TS]

  come not just with a mano [TS]

  but with like a more officially supported like Microsoft blast stack that's in sync with my access code religious to be [TS]

  able to use C. [TS]

  Sharp as you develop one which then I think a lot of the reason that the Linux community hasn't embraced like mono for [TS]

  example is because they're such a bunch of neck beards that love scene see posts so damn much [TS]

  and Granted I haven't been a participant in the Linux community in seventy years some like that [TS]

  but at the time it seemed like it was a it was all about having a barrier of entry and if you weren't like a god at C. [TS]

  or C. [TS]

  Plus plus then then you know what you're not good enough to be in our club [TS]

  and last I heard that hasn't really changed but again I haven't paid attention in almost a decade. [TS]

  Yeah I don't know open source difficult because whenever I think of open source stuff I don't think of the GUI stuff [TS]

  you know there have been doing things based on every language you could possibly imagine [TS]

  or hold up to include like to call [TS]

  or whatever you know it's not that people aren't doing this just not one unified face Hell there was the open step port [TS]

  or the hole as I called I don't know but it was someone someone ages ago going to step up [TS]

  or to the oldest of A.D.R.'s and that's like the what if some of it was available for a living. [TS]

  Boy that would change things whack it was practically available for Linux from her for a long time [TS]

  but you know it wasn't it was a freshly sanctioned of a small group of ego making [TS]

  and it's not like people are clamoring to make applicants. [TS]

  The most important things to come out of sort of the Linux open source community are things like cage T M L And you [TS]

  know earlier Apache and stuff like that like faceless applications written in low level languages those are OK [TS]

  but as soon as you get into anything it's like just don't don't look to the Lex community friends [TS]

  or file systems another example you know coming from the OF US Congress on B.T.R. [TS]

  Facit like those things tend to come out of the open source world [TS]

  and so if they've got an empty shop want to help in that regard they can give some new tools to that crowd [TS]

  but it's not you don't see anything coming out of there. [TS]

  It's like anything higher level than I can you think of like an exciting thing that is not faceless that has come out [TS]

  of the open source slash Linux community in the last decade [TS]

  or so that has made an impact on the wider world of computing wireshark audacity both nerdy tools [TS]

  and also a nerd school. I want to get that's not that's faceless. [TS]

  Yeah get need a million front end wanted to make it usable here [TS]

  and get should get is another way back ended facelessness is gross. [TS]

  Like even the get commands that use in the command line are themselves front ends to like five other commands under the [TS]

  hood that are actually doing the thing you want to do it is not a great example of a user interface you know aspects of [TS]

  application get get is exactly what you would expect from the creator of Linux making something complicated like [TS]

  version. Version control in history reversing into our already very complicated problems. [TS]

  Add to that the creator of Linux making the one that he wants to use to get is exactly what you'd expect that to pick [TS]

  on someone and someone just signing him that's the kind of server related you want to use for any [TS]

  and I guess is like a lot of tools that are either web based [TS]

  or are have to do with testing things that have to do with the web that probably count maybe I don't know. P H P B B. [TS]

  Of course a lot of regular tackle have I have interacted with that I mean them are [TS]

  and has had more of an impact because they let you right I was right. [TS]

  Like that whole that whole strategy of you can use those other stack to write things cross-platform [TS]

  or you can you sort of shared core of an application and then you deploy I.I.S. and Also on other platforms. [TS]

  Yeah that's right I looked it up I was Amarin back when I was MA No one want to touch one excuse me. [TS]

  And at the time anyway it was it was exactly what I would have done if I was trying to write a cross platform set up [TS]

  for IO Wes in so far as basically they just wrote glue classes where if you had I don't know you have U.I. [TS]

  Activity view control or whatever it is in Objective C. You're going to have the exact same thing in C. [TS]

  Sharp with basically the same A.P.I. Just you know trade things translated to be a little more friendly to C. [TS]

  Sharp world and the C. [TS]

  Sharp classes were just really heavily annotated with attributes and whatnot to describe what is supposed to happen [TS]

  and so what that meant was and this is true I believe of monitoring or whatever it's called jammer and for Android now. [TS]

  And so basically what that means is if you're going to write a cross-platform app you would presumably have the same [TS]

  business logic across both I was an android and those same classes completely shared cetera [TS]

  but the you would be pretty much compelled to have a user user interface specific for each platform. [TS]

  This is in contrast to something like a Phone Gap which is all javascript based [TS]

  and they try to make the user interface code generic amongst both platforms as well informed. [TS]

  Does a reasonably good job given what it is. [TS]

  So for example [TS]

  when you ask for I think it's mean one thing in a titanium Actually it doesn't matter one of the javascript ones [TS]

  when you asked for tab are. You'll get a U.I. [TS]

  Tabbara nihilists and it'll be at the bottom [TS]

  and if you ask for teh barn Android you'll get one of the Android equivalent is and it'll be on the top [TS]

  but it's still trying to be all things to all people. Where is Amarin at the time anyway. [TS]

  Was not that way and you would have to definitely write separate user interfaces per platform [TS]

  but you would share all your core logic in your sort of view as objects [TS]

  and everything like that so I think that fish I've already probably done more to to bring them around [TS]

  and montage will have done more to bring Microsoft's tools to the water community [TS]

  and probably cumulated massive every effort that has come out of the Lex world parents is interesting I'm very curious [TS]

  to see where it goes to be honest like I said I don't know that it will affect much unless somebody like John it fed [TS]

  embraces this to make some wonderful new thing but I don't so I was somewhat surprised to see it [TS]

  and I'm excited to see what comes of it. Now before we move on. [TS]

  Out of curiosity what do you guys use at work or in retirement for you Marco. [TS]

  What do you use for version control if not get what you get for the same reason that a lot of people use get which is a [TS]

  good hubby really good [TS]

  and that if I want to use a lot of open source anything if I want to open source a library if I want to open source [TS]

  something. [TS]

  Generally speaking you need it is it is wise if you want to have any contributions [TS]

  or any interaction with with other developers it is wise to use good hub [TS]

  and therefore use get I don't know that there's a lot of areas of my life where I kind of pick like the they'll turn of [TS]

  team [TS]

  and for every reason I didn't do that this time because there's a lot of downsides that approach a lot of times like [TS]

  when I bought the D.V.D. Plus R.W. [TS]

  Drive that was dumb but so many so many things that I thought it was good to have D.V.D. RAM then you're fine. [TS]

  I did not have D.V.D. RAM I don't know why there's a T.V. Remote due to ram is never popular. [TS]

  It's not like it was a sad day like it was never ever popular among anybody. [TS]

  But regardless I did not buy almost I was tempted to buy a D.V.D. RAM because it's so much better for data integrity. [TS]

  It actually is way better in so many ways for integrity but I resisted and instead bought D.V.D. Plus R.W. [TS]

  Back before they were combo drives which was very stupid. [TS]

  Yeah to some I didn't go for the alternative team I went for the the big team [TS]

  and I just said let's root for the Yankees and it'll be easier [TS]

  and I made a sports metaphor I was about to say good is not the Yankees way still isn't up to date [TS]

  or that is outdated information [TS]

  and that I will never get was never the Yankees so what do you so worked on you know I guess I have a choice [TS]

  or is perforce at work [TS]

  and for the club for the centralized version non distributed versions of them so not me here all night to get not that [TS]

  I feel like the old school style a sort of C.V.S. [TS]

  Subversion style like perforce better than any of this other centralized ones I've used but I completely agree. [TS]

  Many things not to recommend it. [TS]

  So once like so the central of the decentralized ones come on the scene [TS]

  and they all work according to a paradigm that is totally foreign to perforce right [TS]

  and so we can't change you can't change it stripes can be like. Now I Am the Central. [TS]

  It's just not it's like everything about it you know it's baked in to the design a pervert is never going to be like it [TS]

  or material or something but it feels a need to add weird sort of hearted marking features like the P. [TS]

  For Shelvey crew that showed up a few years ago it's like just don't even try. [TS]

  Like that's not it [TS]

  and so perverse does bother me every time I think about how much easier this will be one of the more modern version [TS]

  trolls thousands [TS]

  but now I go backwards into the old mindset it's you know it's it's my it's my favorite of an old outdated lot. [TS]

  Yeah I use perforce of my very first job in this was two thousand and four and at the time I really liked it [TS]

  but obviously the world's moved on like you said so what. [TS]

  If you were to do a personal project right now our forecast to you [TS]

  or you know Hey John what would you like to use in the whole company will use that what would you what would you [TS]

  recommend. [TS]

  I've used it [TS]

  but I would hold my nose the whole time like one person in the Jeremy Apparently I've never heard people say that they [TS]

  get is a gross get is totally gross not in the functionality that it has but in the user interface [TS]

  and yes command line programs have a user interface and you get user interface [TS]

  when you design a program the user interface is sort of you have to build sort of the user model of how this program [TS]

  works right. [TS]

  You've got the model of how the internal guts of the market you have to run the user model and a set of vocabulary [TS]

  and a series of nouns [TS]

  and verbs that expose the functionality that you've made possible of your application in a friendly way [TS]

  and it totally fails and that just totally failed the words they pick for [TS]

  and everything the options they use represent those words the whole big structure of the sub commands in the flags [TS]

  and how they go to it in a different OS just terrible because a million web pages about it is the total user interface [TS]

  failure but you know that's the functionality is great and it's free and it's open source [TS]

  and get help exist so there are many other things to reckon in and you know it comes out ahead in net net [TS]

  but that doesn't mean it's not gross. [TS]

  I mean if you know if you played with the merc serial which I cannot pronounce apparently because what it was is the [TS]

  team that was on a tirade about the junkets though are still rocking the material I think he may have the more elegant [TS]

  trespass just like it's swimming against the tide. [TS]

  Right because everything so much infrastructure and is built around getting people to expect you to use it [TS]

  and it's like every Carol had one it's like you know Betamax and ones that are V.H.S. [TS]

  but The bottom line is you know V.H.S. One and so here we are. [TS]

  That's a better analogy than the Yankees I think it is Marco you tried that one time [TS]

  and this is what you get on never try again in the chat room. [TS]

  Some of them are going to try to pronounce me curios basically. It with fewer features a better U.I. [TS]

  and A slower implementation speed is actually a concern speaking of operations [TS]

  and getting someone from the chairman correct means in thirty seconds [TS]

  and as they hear this if I'm wrong scale linearly with the number of files which is fine if you have a smaller posit [TS]

  or a work we have a ridiculous gigantic repository that is way too big [TS]

  and perforce is actually faster than get for doing common operations. [TS]

  So I'm not that's not a slam against Get a slam against how we manage our code but that is something to consider [TS]

  and that's another reason the material is not a clean one over good and they have a nicer interface [TS]

  and more well thought out sort of way that describes its functionality [TS]

  but good has a lot of developer time behind it and it has a lot of features [TS]

  and can do a lot of amazing things in a tool in the ecosystem built around good make it more valuable than mercurial. [TS]

  Oh on that bombshell. [TS]

  Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week mandrill Squarespace and hover and we will see you next week. [TS]

  Now to be an accidental accidental John and you are now getting access to that list and Michael. [TS]

  Because of the agreement that you have with analog. First of all how is your baby monitor doing this agreement. [TS]

  I'm not caught up in analog is not a reason on life. [TS]

  Basically Mike had said mostly jokingly that he is going to I don't think we've released this one yet this might be the [TS]

  one where he's proposing some kind of agreement between the two shows that that most of the feelings will go on their [TS]

  show could most protect are going to go on our show. Denied. [TS]

  Yeah I think remember here now this is a nose ring a bell that's total bogus itself immediately. [TS]

  Furthermore declare war against the baby monitors. Good. We basically have the same baby monitor the you have. Yeah. [TS]

  But babies good. He's every day is a little different but it weighs I can't describe which is the oddest thing. [TS]

  He looks a little bit different kind of acts a little bit different. [TS]

  And again I wish I could tell you a specific way in which that's the case [TS]

  but it just everything is just a little bit different when you're that young I mean he's two weeks today actually. [TS]

  It is everything is expected in some ways to be different I get today we noticed actually here's an empirical exam [TS]

  or a specific example you notice that I think he's starting to be able to cry as and generate tears. [TS]

  Obviously he you know wails and moans on occasion sometimes often [TS]

  but I don't think he was able to generate tears until tonight we saw him [TS]

  and I think that's a tear I think that's a tear you know. So that's new. [TS]

  But I mean all in all everything's fine still sleeping more than expected less than desired. [TS]

  But you know it's all good. So as some general advice Things change quickly and like like he. [TS]

  In in six months he's going to look different. [TS]

  Second had to that he looked with a different get and he of course will act differently get more abilities. [TS]

  What I would recommend is do this but like don't forget to take pictures and don't forget to take video. [TS]

  I would suggest leaving your camera out like leave it on the coffee table [TS]

  or somewhere like on a kitchen counter we will leave it out so that taking a picture of him doesn't doesn't require set [TS]

  up like you can always just grab a camera [TS]

  and take the pictures you know make it make it very casual make it make it like an everyday easy thing to do. [TS]

  If you and again and don't forget to take videos [TS]

  or fed to him a video is fine you know doesn't it matters less for video if I protect the title quality of it [TS]

  but video it really captures captures time captures a moment a way that a lot of photos you know they can the video [TS]

  just captures a whole dimension of it. [TS]

  And so like you know don't like don't go like six months of taking a video you know because because what you're going [TS]

  to see is going to look back in a year and be like oh my god I can't believe he used to look like that [TS]

  or I don't I don't even remember that time when he was doing that. [TS]

  It does change so quickly during the president's first the first two years. [TS]

  Now it's funny bring that up because friend of the show underscored David Smith actually came down this morning. [TS]

  I had the morning off from work and so he came down to visit me Declan and [TS]

  and I've had our fancy cameras basically sitting on our coffee table just not always so either Aaron [TS]

  or I can grab it and take a picture. [TS]

  And at one point and he allowed Aaron and I to hold Declan for a moment and I mean that a good way not a bad way. [TS]

  And so all of a sudden I heard the Shutterfly going in the background because you know Dave's a nice guy [TS]

  and he picked up the camera and started. [TS]

  Started taking a few pictures of the three of us which I actually that reminds me I haven't gone back to work [TS]

  and I'm sure they're gorgeous because he's a really good photographer [TS]

  but it's because it was just sitting there because he knows that I don't I wouldn't mind him doing that in fact I [TS]

  appreciate it. [TS]

  You know he was able to take a few shots of us [TS]

  and I got to assume that at least one if not several of those are going to be really awesome. [TS]

  Especially because it's not often that you have all of us all three of us in one shot because usually it's either me [TS]

  or Aaron taking the pictures so I hear you. You know those good moves by underscore that he's the best. [TS]

  Do you have a picture taking. [TS]

  First of all are you going to have formal pictures taken on any sort of schedule and if so what is the schedule. [TS]

  I know your schedule so it depends on how you define formal We are taking pictures every week [TS]

  but I mean like if you have a professional photographer take them of all of us. [TS]

  We haven't really talked about it we didn't have professional shots taken [TS]

  when we were at the hospital which if you'll permit me to go on a rant I can go on a rant about [TS]

  but I don't know about others and that I was thinking [TS]

  and I haven't talked to him about this yet maybe like every year we might do it especially in the beginning [TS]

  when he still changing as you know all the time I don't necessarily feel like we need to do that every year forever [TS]

  more but I don't remind me of that after I've done this for eighteen years straight. [TS]

  And an issue as there and about as you have another discovery or she may have a different plan in mind. [TS]

  Well very much so. I mean who knows. [TS]

  But well I mean I'm just happy that that we have friends [TS]

  and family around that will take pictures of us with a decent camera and that we have a decent camera [TS]

  but obviously there's something to be said for professional shots and so when we were in the hospital [TS]

  and this is going to make it in the really show because it's stupid but it pisses me off [TS]

  when we were in the hospital you know the blessid hospital photographer company comes around to say Would you like a [TS]

  steak pictures and I knew this was coming because a co-worker of mine his wife does that. [TS]

  But for a different company so if you're sure you don't take something. [TS]

  Here's And so they set up Declan in like Basically she took the end of Aaron's hospital bed [TS]

  and which had all white sheets [TS]

  and like did some magic where she fluffed the sheets in such a way that it looked like a freaking like set like a [TS]

  photography set and you know put put Declan in it and you know took pictures with Declan on a knee on a side [TS]

  and on his back and then we were holding him [TS]

  and then there was one that's really adorable where that's just his feet with our wedding rings on him and [TS]

  and so they were there only about ten or twenty shots that we got in the mail because of course we paid for them [TS]

  and blah blah blah and the thing that really bothered me was when the woman was in there the photographer was in there. [TS]

  She was she was really really nice and seem to be very good at what she does and she was using either a Canon [TS]

  or Nikon D. S.L.R. [TS]

  I don't recall exactly what well I get these pictures in the mail [TS]

  and among other things I got a CD with with the with the digital files on it [TS]

  and these pictures that I got in the mail the file size of each of these pictures that came off a D.S.L. [TS]

  Are that mustn't have been more than a year or two old was one and a half mags last year. [TS]

  You got it you definitely got the you know resized a peg out of something yeah that's anything they're selling you in [TS]

  the hospital it's always it's like if you get into a theme park it takes. Oh yeah. [TS]

  It's so true in that in the doubly annoying thing was just on principle not because it mattered but just on principle. [TS]

  Not only was the J. [TS]

  Pega hyper compressed I think it was like twenty five hundred pixels by fifteen hundred pixels or thereabouts right. [TS]

  I mean you especially Marco should know how funny that is. [TS]

  But but not only that they deliberately stripped all the exit data do I need that X. [TS]

  Of data no of course not [TS]

  but the fact that some way during their whatever workflow they stripped out the excess data that's just insane to me. [TS]

  And so obviously it's been post processed in some way [TS]

  and so I wrote an extraordinarily angry yet mildly polite email to them saying Are you freaking kidding me. [TS]

  You should be giving me raw files for the hundred fifty dollars I paid you. [TS]

  But I would I would just be happy with the on any version of the J. Of the compressed you know the J. [TS]

  Pegs off the camera. [TS]

  I would really like a copy of those or my money back [TS]

  and I got an extremely short email back from them saying to them no you actually it said basically we're shipping you [TS]

  something don't throw away that you can feel free to throw away the thing you already have when the new thing arrives. [TS]

  But I don't know if that means that they're sending me a new CD with different files that they're sending me a CD with [TS]

  the same files. [TS]

  I have no idea but I'm hopeful that perhaps I will eventually be vindicated [TS]

  and they will send me files that are bigger than fifteen hundred by twenty five hundred. Good luck with that. [TS]

  You know I know on. [TS]

  There's no chance at a hundred fifty dollars is expensive to get a digital versions of professional pictures taken. [TS]

  Maybe you should factor that into your schedule you're playing. Yeah we should have to come in and she is. [TS]

  She's around because this is this is like a big part of of the photography business model and it's very challenging. [TS]

  If you are a customer looking for a photographer who will give you the digital files at a reasonable cost especially [TS]

  like and just and give you the right to print them yourself if you want to impose them to Facebook [TS]

  and everything that is not common among photographers it's slowly becoming more common but it's still very uncommon. [TS]

  It's common [TS]

  but they'll charge you a bazillion dollars charge you so much money that you are deterred from ever doing it. [TS]

  Now the interesting thing about this though was into their credit they did on the CD that came with these three [TS]

  versions of digital pictures. They actually had a P.D.F. [TS]

  Which was a copyright release for personal use and that was extremely surprising to me because. [TS]

  I remember when we were interviewing photographers for a wedding in this was in two thousand and seven. [TS]

  I we [TS]

  and the guy we ended up going for very clearly was extremely particular about how we were going to use the digital files [TS]

  he gave us and he did give us on water marked completely unmolested. [TS]

  J pegs of every picture he took [TS]

  and in fact I asked him if he was going to strip the excess data he looked at me funny [TS]

  and said wow I never had anyone ask me that before her purse [TS]

  but that being said he lectured us like thirteen different times about how the only way you can use this is to print [TS]

  things for yourself and your family anything else and he will basically take us to court [TS]

  and in again for the for the hospital pictures. [TS]

  It it was very nice of them to include a copyright release I don't know why it would ever be an issue. [TS]

  But nevertheless if it is an issue it's right there and I can print it [TS]

  and say no no no look I'm just printing it for myself I'm not trying to sell it. Here's the copyright release. [TS]

  I remember talking to tiff about this at one point a year [TS]

  or two ago just out of curiosity because it struck me weird that he was that into holding the copyright for these [TS]

  pictures [TS]

  and my understanding is he wanted to be able to resell him the pictures he took of us to like wedding magazines [TS]

  and you know bright old magazines in wedding dress magazines. [TS]

  Well that's not that's not the real reason because you can you can have like oh copyright like you like the [TS]

  photographer can retain the copyright of the pictures that he or she takes [TS]

  but can also grant you the rights to do whatever you want with them [TS]

  and I think that's what basically sort of kind of happened with these hospital pictures. [TS]

  It was not exactly clear what happened with the wedding photographer pictures. [TS]

  Yeah that's well [TS]

  and especially the older photographer like suckers who who have been working live before digital even like you know old [TS]

  school photographers they makes they make such a big percentage of their money from the prints and the books [TS]

  and all the crap you have to buy for that. [TS]

  They make so much money from that that if you ask them for the source whether it's negatives [TS]

  or order your files to go do whatever you want with the reason why they don't want you doing that is because that's [TS]

  going to cut into a lot of their money and it's a lot better. Like it's a simpler business model. [TS]

  If you just charge more upfront just say All right well you know I if I need to make two thousand dollars from your [TS]

  shoot rather than charging a thousand dollars for the shoe [TS]

  and then six hundred dollars for each book that you want to order [TS]

  and of course you want to get one of your grandparents or one of your parents or one for yourself and one for those [TS]

  and like you know doing all that just search eleven dollars a front [TS]

  and then just you know let them buy prints at cost [TS]

  and that's what tiff does that's that's been his I wish she should come in here and tell tell you this. [TS]

  That's tips entire business model for her photo business. [TS]

  That's how she does it she just charges more front [TS]

  and gives people digital files because what most people want to do is like posting to Facebook [TS]

  and going to their friends and stuff like no one gets prints anymore right. [TS]

  And she you know she has she she has like you know she's integrated with a big professional printer [TS]

  and she just offers those prints some tiny margin above cost like to make it worth her like sending the files [TS]

  and basically she's basically offering them at cost so people can get professional prints made. [TS]

  But most people don't [TS]

  and that's like that's what most people want you know that that's most people want that out of their photographer [TS]

  and the younger photographers are are more likely to be willing to do that but it's still a problem [TS]

  when you get like one of the one of the old school ones who who still want to do things the old fashioned way where you [TS]

  spend hundreds of dollars for prints after the fact. [TS]

  Yeah and it's funny because just the other day I don't know why I did [TS]

  but I went looking up to try to find the photographer our wedding photographers website to see kind of if he was still [TS]

  around or whatever. Definitely not. [TS]

  He's definitely not a wedding photographer anymore some pretty sure I'm OK on the copyright because apparently he's not [TS]

  really making money from it anyway. Well five years after he dies you can do whatever you want with them. [TS]

  Hooray Yay US copyright law. Yeah. [TS]

  But yes we'll see what happens I should be getting this new CD in a week or two [TS]

  but it also strikes me as extremely peculiar that it is the year twenty fourteen [TS]

  and I'm still waiting on a CD to get digital copies of pictures that were taken to me [TS]

  and you probably paid quite a premium for that CD. [TS]

  Oh hell yeah it was and it was around one hundred fifty dollars and we did get a few prints out of it. [TS]

  But to your point a minute ago basically it was the CD is one hundred thirty dollars and [TS]

  or something along those lines [TS]

  and in for twenty dollars more you could get like thirteen prints making up the details for something on those lines [TS]

  and so at that point like well why not just get the you know ten prints or whatever [TS]

  and for that for the twenty dollars and so we got like a humongous picture Declan That's like fifteen by ten inches [TS]

  or something like that. [TS]

  But why not just charge one hundred twenty dollars for the shoot and have them email you the photos. Exactly exactly. [TS]

  That's that's that like they'll make more that way it's actually like they're wasting their money making the stupid [TS]

  print crap like that and nobody wants it. Yeah I don't get it. [TS]

  Well don't forget to actually make prints though because you want to vary the integer you want the original files [TS]

  but if you want the aliens to dig up pictures of your child after that you've got to have paper ones so compressed with [TS]

  all the rest of the stuff [TS]

  and maybe be preserved in some little bubble they'll be able to find those because they will be able to read it [TS]

  or even for your things like if you have a catastrophic data loss [TS]

  or something it's good to have like prints of your family and relatives houses. Yeah. [TS]

  Yeah I mean will say but I'm very anxious to see what happens and I. [TS]

  So many in the chat if he was Brian Ashton [TS]

  when he said something along the lines of what happened with my email was a secretary read it thought that the CD was [TS]

  damaged and I am about to get another copy of the exact same CD that I already have. There is probably true. [TS]

  We just took pictures of it run a yearly schedule this point and we just took them one yesterday actually [TS]

  and the CD they gave us for the first time was unreadable. So I was shame. Can you get like a replacement. [TS]

  Got a replacement bio [TS]

  but it was it was unreadable in a way that revealed the first set of terrible Yosemite bugs that I've seen in the [TS]

  second readable C.D.N. Find of reason to mention everything free that I had hard power down which is that that's cool. [TS]

  It doesn't even feel like this they're going to unreadable or like you know system is totally useless [TS]

  and spinning the CD at high speed. [TS]

  Yeah I tried it in both of my optical drives the amp to the Dr and I both pro and the out of the drive my mac pro [TS]

  or which didn't freeze to the magnet work and I didn't freeze but my mac pro did anyway. [TS]

  Who said we got that they put on a thumb drive for us [TS]

  and gave us a CD so sign it if it started it started usually for like her bigger photo packages. [TS]

  She would always get these beautiful custom C's printed by that by the by the thought of printing company with custom [TS]

  booklets and everything the problem is like who has a CD drive anymore like those are on their way out. [TS]

  For most people's computers like it it is very possible if you make a CD for a photo client this year they might not [TS]

  own a computer that can read it [TS]

  and she found her sitting over to thumb drives for that for the big lines of the small [TS]

  and she just sent them a drop box link [TS]

  and that's all most people need like all this physical media is so quickly becoming outdated. [TS]

  When we got this knowledge E one of the first things I did was I took our two [TS]

  or three D.V.D.'s full of wedding pictures [TS]

  and immediately put them on this analogy not only because I was scared that eventually we weren't we wouldn't. [TS]

  Have a D.V.D. Drive in the house. [TS]

  But even more so [TS]

  and I think John you've talked about this one the past one of those D.V.D.'s eventually rot to the point that I can't [TS]

  read them anymore. [TS]

  Yeah I have tons of up to us that are probably that actually pulled a bunch of old like animated stuff out of a lot of [TS]

  us and I think most of them are going to the thing with no data integrity have no way of knowing [TS]

  and I thought I'm on the phonology but until [TS]

  and unless I watch every single one of them through it one expiate I don't know which one of them's got a corrupt all [TS]

  never know. So yes so that's when you know when you're talking that's baby photography in the year twenty fourteen. [TS]

  See we talk tech Mike should be happy with that. [TS]

  Yeah actually that it kind of worked out for a test I don't think of it that way. That's been that's pretty funny. [TS]