The Incomparable

248: Most Poetic Sledgehammer

 

  the uncomfortable is brought to you by [TS]

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  that you can get as part of a [TS]

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  go to bizarre new world dot com for more [TS]

  information [TS]

  that's be Izar re new world.com for more [TS]

  info this is a comic that similar and [TS]

  toned back to the future it's a comedy [TS]

  fantasy grounded in the real world there [TS]

  are no superheroes capes aliens or [TS]

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  people in fact the entire premise of [TS]

  bizarre new world is what if everyone [TS]

  else got the ability to fly one day [TS]

  that's what it's all about [TS]

  there's a regular guy named Paul he's [TS]

  the world's first flying man he's very [TS]

  excited about it but very rapidly [TS]

  discovers everybody else can fly to and [TS]

  that's when the world changes it's a [TS]

  completely finished 278 page graphic [TS]

  novel so check it out go to bizarre new [TS]

  world dot com the Kickstarter ends may [TS]

  the incomparable number 248 may 2015 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

  smell in this episode we are reconvening [TS]

  at long last for another class from [TS]

  Professor siracusa who is going to tell [TS]

  us about anime and expand and expand our [TS]

  minds just as he did in an episode it's [TS]

  hard to believe two years ago when John [TS]

  assigned perfect blue and millennium [TS]

  actress to us he's back now with anime [TS]

  102 featuring ghost in the shell the [TS]

  film as well as the standalone complex [TS]

  TV series [TS]

  hello professor siracusa how are you [TS]

  tonight you know this whole 101-102 [TS]

  course progression thing I think we're [TS]

  finding out where your limit is and it's [TS]

  actually apparently had one halfway [TS]

  through a lot of course 102 [TS]

  yeah this is a weed out courses as we've [TS]

  just experienced apparently i thought [TS]

  this was I knew this would be more [TS]

  challenging but I figured the Jason [TS]

  would at least make it into one or three [TS]

  but now I think Jason is not really his [TS]

  future as an army major is a maybe his [TS]

  future maybe in the past that's what is [TS]

  pretty much auditing this course so that [TS]

  voice that you heard as Tony said the [TS]

  Lord hi Tony [TS]

  I Jason and Erica and sign also is [TS]

  enrolled in this class [TS]

  well actually I had to test into it so [TS]

  I'm just hoping that you got to maybe [TS]

  credit that records you put you put [TS]

  toward this there's no way we can burn [TS]

  this metaphor down what I would say is I [TS]

  i anticipated as I did the last time [TS]

  being able to watch some of this while I [TS]

  was traveling on long airplane five [TS]

  flights but it's very difficult to watch [TS]

  anime on the airplane because of the [TS]

  boobs [TS]

  yeah I I thought you're gonna say [TS]

  subtitles but that answer is also [TS]

  correct units in VR goggles maybe yeah [TS]

  whatever i watch this in the food court [TS]

  at the mall I didn't have any yahoo that [TS]

  I mean the mall that's pretty much lost [TS]

  cause anyway who's gonna judge you at [TS]

  the mall but I was trapped in the same [TS]

  you can get up and leave if you're [TS]

  embarrassed an airplane to you you can't [TS]

  do that so I idx [TS]

  we watch a big chunk of ghost in the [TS]

  shell on the plane and then I got to the [TS]

  part where at the end where that the [TS]

  shirt gets ripped off and I was like [TS]

  okay I'm just gonna watch the rest of [TS]

  this later [TS]

  yeah I didn't watch the movie at the [TS]

  mall yeah i watched i watch the movie [TS]

  and I i watched two episodes of the TV [TS]

  show that's that's that's when I managed [TS]

  so that's there you go professor [TS]

  you can grade me in getting a d-minus [TS]

  who out of 26 what is that you can pick [TS]

  not a good what he's talking about [TS]

  we're going for a low score right it's [TS]

  like golf it's not I mean it's like with [TS]

  assigned reading it's not about how much [TS]

  of the reading you did [TS]

  it's how many pages can you fill in the [TS]

  paper that's all that matters how many [TS]

  sparknotes yeah so so Jason if you can [TS]

  talk for an hour and a half about those [TS]

  two episodes you're good nope his [TS]

  margins are going to be really really [TS]

  wide [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I i should have to him I [TS]

  should've bought the cliff notes i'm [TS]

  sure i could have done that but it's too [TS]

  late now shmoop shmoop we could get some [TS]

  scoop some sparknotes get them in their [TS]

  monarch notes and I would have us [TS]

  believe so John can you explain to us a [TS]

  little bit about why you selected this [TS]

  for anime 102 also ghost in the shell [TS]

  the movie is one of the sort of pillars [TS]

  of modern anime high and I think it's a [TS]

  a great jumping-off point for two [TS]

  reasons one because you want to like [TS]

  let's look at this classic that [TS]

  everybody talks about to the deuce is so [TS]

  influential on so many newish anime fans [TS]

  and i think it's interesting because I [TS]

  it is in my opinion not really overrated [TS]

  like it is correctly rated it's actually [TS]

  very very influential and also very good [TS]

  and I liked it because there was a TV [TS]

  series spin-off and that it provides an [TS]

  interesting contrast like you have this [TS]

  this a movie that's very popular and [TS]

  failure influential how do you turn that [TS]

  into a TV series what does that look [TS]

  like [TS]

  or is it as successful as the movie in [TS]

  more ways it has to be different and [TS]

  they're both community called ghost in [TS]

  the shell and there was a bunch of other [TS]

  seasons the television series after that [TS]

  but just looking at this influential [TS]

  movie and this television series [TS]

  spin-off i think is really interesting [TS]

  and instructive and I wish you'd watch [TS]

  more TV series because this lot of good [TS]

  contrast there but even if you know you [TS]

  didn't i just the movie itself has a lot [TS]

  of stuff to dig into and [TS]

  the television series is mostly [TS]

  interesting i think in a format contrast [TS]

  and thematically covers all the same [TS]

  ground is there something about this [TS]

  franchise or the film in it specifically [TS]

  that made it that made it jump out as [TS]

  like compared to other anime that you [TS]

  could watch him you have this watch the [TS]

  satoshi kon stuff and obviously watched [TS]

  a lot of miyazaki which is a totally [TS]

  other thing what what you know it what [TS]

  makes the stand out from other things i [TS]

  think i think from our perspective it's [TS]

  just that we are in America and it was [TS]

  historically very difficult to get [TS]

  japanese animation and once company [TS]

  started figuring out that they could [TS]

  import this stuff and once it could be [TS]

  important to sort of illegally over the [TS]

  internet and everything that that it you [TS]

  know sort of the anime invasion it's not [TS]

  it's not as if like there's it's not as [TS]

  if this is you know the first or super [TS]

  new or anything like that because you [TS]

  know you gotta cure and stuff like that [TS]

  process because this this was sort of [TS]

  the tip of the spear of the mass [TS]

  invasion of anime into American culture [TS]

  for like mainstream I mean it's not [TS]

  entirely mainstream but it was it was [TS]

  more mainstream and it had been in the [TS]

  past and I mean and that was basically [TS]

  that's about marketing right i mean they [TS]

  should they decided this was going to be [TS]

  this kind of test case for trying to [TS]

  push it and i mean i remember in the [TS]

  late nineties you could this was you [TS]

  could you could get a ghost in the shell [TS]

  at a blockbuster video you could rent it [TS]

  right and they didn't they had that in [TS]

  the ad acura maybe the head ninja scroll [TS]

  and that was it right [TS]

  yep and and that was it that's really [TS]

  all it took was a few things to sort of [TS]

  stand out and I i would I don't know [TS]

  what it's like for the Japanese [TS]

  perspective but having seen a lot of [TS]

  anime mrs. Grose Michelle is good i [TS]

  would put it above let's say ninja [TS]

  scroll for example but through a few [TS]

  companies he gave it a try and i think [TS]

  that you know the the internet and the [TS]

  trading of fansubs and everything [TS]

  surrounding this especially the [TS]

  television series afterwards brought a [TS]

  japanese animation too much water [TS]

  audience in the u.s. so that's why it's [TS]

  remember that's that again that's why I [TS]

  picked it because you think oh well [TS]

  whatever goes and does not actually that [TS]

  good just because that's when anime just [TS]

  happened to come to the u.s. in a big [TS]

  way and I was into anime before ghost in [TS]

  the shell and it's you know whatever [TS]

  like you would think it would be [TS]

  crappy movie but i think it's actually [TS]

  great movie and it's kind of a shame [TS]

  that it gets sort of looked down upon as [TS]

  the sort of thing that came in that [TS]

  spread anime to the people who are who [TS]

  are really into it so this movie is from [TS]

  1995 it struck me immediately that [TS]

  before I even looked anything up on [TS]

  Wikipedia like in the first 10 minutes i [TS]

  thought wow the entire matrix is stolen [TS]

  from ghost in the shell [TS]

  yeah well I mean I the matrix very [TS]

  heavily influenced by japanese animation [TS]

  a lot of people who are excited about [TS]

  the matrix were excited because there [TS]

  had never really been a sort of live [TS]

  action anime conversion that was [TS]

  remotely interesting or convincing or [TS]

  good and this was like well it's not [TS]

  live action anime but this is what I [TS]

  imagined good live-action anybody would [TS]

  be like but yeah there's this old [TS]

  nineties sort of cyberpunk you know that [TS]

  that that all that that's wasn't [TS]

  invented by ghosts Michelle me see tons [TS]

  of blade runner inside this and [TS]

  everything as well sure yeah i just [TS]

  think well yeah you can see the chain of [TS]

  the chain of events here right but I [TS]

  mean just the visuals the green the [TS]

  green or huetter that had a nineties [TS]

  zoom in and all that that though it but [TS]

  it's like there's stuff in the first 10 [TS]

  minutes of this movie that is just it is [TS]

  in the matrix the matrix you said that [TS]

  that and then I found an article that [TS]

  basically said the Wachowskis said that [TS]

  we're going to do that we're gonna make [TS]

  that and so they made that now would [TS]

  that was the matrix am I just it i [TS]

  didn't know going in that it was that [TS]

  this that this was influential in that [TS]

  way but it became readily available like [TS]

  really apparent immediately that it was [TS]

  yeah and you know i never i didn't [TS]

  actually put that together until we [TS]

  watching this this time and i have seen [TS]

  it a number of times before and I saw [TS]

  this well before I saw the matrix and [TS]

  somehow still didn't put it together [TS]

  watching the matrix the guys just so [TS]

  wrapped up in my excitement about the [TS]

  matrix that I didn't notice it but yeah [TS]

  it's it's very easy to draw a kind of a [TS]

  line between between this and the matrix [TS]

  and I think it's one of those things [TS]

  where I enjoy this so much that of [TS]

  course i was going to like the matrix [TS]

  I like the matrix so much that of course [TS]

  going back to watch this is going to be [TS]

  really exciting it's kind of like how [TS]

  you know i love the beatles therefore i [TS]

  can't really slag off always this all [TS]

  that much because it really sounds a lot [TS]

  like that because they wanted a really [TS]

  really like they liked the Beatles as [TS]

  much as you do [TS]

  he said maybe more as long as you agree [TS]

  that this movie is the beatles this [TS]

  analogy I'm fine with ionic we go now [TS]

  speaking of the matrix like and they had [TS]

  it [TS]

  that's actually interesting comparisons [TS]

  well because the op-ed influences are [TS]

  obvious but i think the sort of world [TS]

  context of ghost in the shell is [TS]

  actually a really solid found a sci-fi [TS]

  foundation for stories that is just a [TS]

  well-thought-out and has themes that [TS]

  like it a lot of the criticism the ghost [TS]

  in shell gets that hits you over the [TS]

  head of its pains and I agree it's a [TS]

  gigantic sledge hammer hitting you in [TS]

  the face repeat like it has themes [TS]

  you're going to know them I and but i [TS]

  think the the world surrounding this is [TS]

  flushed down the TV series can actually [TS]

  support all these things because it hits [TS]

  you over things like yeah okay we get it [TS]

  robots people whatever ghost yeah I get [TS]

  it but you don't really get it because [TS]

  everything that they're subtle things in [TS]

  the movie which will go through and a [TS]

  bit and in a television series that [TS]

  continue to throw the realities of the [TS]

  setting back in your face in ways that [TS]

  surprise you because you will settle in [TS]

  to start thinking of this as a police [TS]

  procedural or an action movie or [TS]

  whatever and you'd be like oh oh yeah [TS]

  that's what generally being with me I [TS]

  forgot about that and the television [TS]

  series of us a over several seasons did [TS]

  that and the movie I think throughout [TS]

  its entire running time continues to [TS]

  tweak you with its premise and setting [TS]

  making you look at it from a different [TS]

  angle and realize all the ramifications [TS]

  in it in a way that makes you [TS]

  uncomfortable and I think that type of [TS]

  thing is beyond the realm of what the [TS]

  matrix was interested in doing matrix [TS]

  head it's one twisted wanted to do and I [TS]

  wanted to be cool and it it took away it [TS]

  took away from this movie The the sort [TS]

  of mainstream more palatable exciting [TS]

  things guns [TS]

  fighting robot computers pakery type [TS]

  stuff but didn't really want to [TS]

  challenge you too much with the with the [TS]

  sort of a real-world hard sci-fi [TS]

  implications and instead went to a more [TS]

  sort of spiritual mumbo-jumbo thing [TS]

  especially in later movies [TS]

  yeah I'd seen that I'd seen the film [TS]

  many many times but this that the [TS]

  standalone complex was new to me in [TS]

  preparation for this episode I thought [TS]

  it was kind of this neat in that it's [TS]

  basically this police procedural but set [TS]

  in this fully fleshed-out cyberpunk [TS]

  world with all these rules and mechanics [TS]

  that were I thought pretty consistently [TS]

  applied across all the episodes that in [TS]

  a very convincing world-building kind of [TS]

  way so I enjoyed it [TS]

  in fact I mean I don't want to jump [TS]

  ahead to the show yet but but i did when [TS]

  i got to the end of the movie i [TS]

  immediately thought oh a show set in [TS]

  this world makes a lot of sense like I [TS]

  see in fact in some in some ways I felt [TS]

  like a show set in this world without [TS]

  you know standalone episodes as well as [TS]

  a you know I'm an overarching story like [TS]

  I think maybe that makes more sense to [TS]

  me then the movie because the movie is [TS]

  trying to tell this big thing and I have [TS]

  some criticisms of of the of the way the [TS]

  movie does it but I thought immediately [TS]

  this is a really rich world that would [TS]

  really benefit from having time to [TS]

  explore it which is what the show does [TS]

  and having only seen a couple of the [TS]

  most like that yeah this it's like this [TS]

  is exactly what I what I envisioned so I [TS]

  I ran out of time I did not watch them [TS]

  because i didn't like them because i [TS]

  actually once i started watching the [TS]

  episodes i thought oh this is really a [TS]

  lot of fun and I and I like totally get [TS]

  what they're what they're going for you [TS]

  know one of the ways that Professor [TS]

  Syracuse's anime 102 is a little bit [TS]

  different from other courses here on [TS]

  campus is that it has a sponsor and that [TS]

  sponsor is mail route imagine a world [TS]

  without spam viruses or bounced email [TS]

  imagine opening your email and seeing [TS]

  only the legitimate mail that you want [TS]

  and need to receive mail route can make [TS]

  this a daily reality in fact here this [TS]

  unnamed University where Professor [TS]

  siracusa teaches anime we trust me [TS]

  around to filter out our spam as most [TS]

  large universities and corporations [TS]

  should and many do if your desktop user [TS]

  male rats user interface simple and [TS]

  effective [TS]

  you're an email administrator IT [TS]

  professional they've got all the tools [TS]

  that you need an API for easy account [TS]

  management it supports ldap Active [TS]

  Directory TLS male bagging male bagging [TS]

  outbound relay everything you'd want [TS]

  from whoever is handling your mail now [TS]

  there's no hardware software to set up [TS]

  it all lives in the cloud mail route [TS]

  takes your mail you point your MX [TS]

  records for your domain and mail route [TS]

  it filters everything passes it on to [TS]

  your server your server never sees the [TS]

  big bad internet and is protected from [TS]

  all the bad stuff that's out there and [TS]

  you can start a risk-free trial with [TS]

  mail route no credit card necessary you [TS]

  sign up change your MX records and [TS]

  that's it your mailbox is completely [TS]

  protected all listeners to the [TS]

  incomparable can receive ten percent off [TS]

  mail route for a lifetime of your [TS]

  account so visit mail route dotnet / [TS]

  smell [TS]

  now that's mail route dotnet / smell my [TS]

  last name and that ends this course is [TS]

  sponsorship now back to the professor [TS]

  and his course I guess we'll start with [TS]

  the opening scene because i think this [TS]

  is this the themes in the opening scene [TS]

  repeated throughout the entire movie in [TS]

  a way that I think people who are [TS]

  familiar with the movie take for granted [TS]

  and even myself like I mean I've seen [TS]

  this movie a million times and [TS]

  rewatching it again twice for this [TS]

  podcast the two times I thought it was [TS]

  imminent [TS]

  I'm struck by how I didn't have things [TS]

  that for granted to come back to me as [TS]

  fresh but one of the things I've always [TS]

  thought about this movie is the opening [TS]

  you mentioned the boobs earlier [TS]

  beginning and at the end but really not [TS]

  in the middle there's a long boobless [TS]

  stretch here at boobs are staple of [TS]

  anime they're there they're bouncing [TS]

  they're going to be in the movies and [TS]

  most of the time they're in anime [TS]

  they're going to be there for you for [TS]

  the expected reasons because it targeted [TS]

  at hot men and they like to see boobs [TS]

  fanservice you know that is the usual [TS]

  reason you see naked women or scantily [TS]

  clad women or whatever in anime and this [TS]

  movie opens with the scene with the [TS]

  major on top of the building eventually [TS]

  she swoops down the building shoots [TS]

  through a wall and kill somebody or [TS]

  whatever but as part of that sequence [TS]

  she takes off our clothes and you're [TS]

  like oh here we go again [TS]

  roll like dude you gotta have your your [TS]

  feminine hero even if she is a tough [TS]

  secret agent type person or if she's a [TS]

  cyborg course she's gonna take off her [TS]

  clothes and wear skimpy outfits like [TS]

  it's just you have to do it right but [TS]

  even before they get to that there was [TS]

  one of the first exchanges and the movie [TS]

  is there talking to her over the headset [TS]

  and this is some static in your brain or [TS]

  whatever and she says it's that time of [TS]

  month same type of thing you're thinking [TS]

  of another eye roll like these women and [TS]

  their time of month right and it seems [TS]

  to be your typical sort of sexist anime [TS]

  fair but all that stuff is done type [TS]

  whether it's done with the purpose movie [TS]

  or i'm projecting onto the people i [TS]

  really truly want to believe that they [TS]

  were doing this consciously I and not [TS]

  just for the reasons at that we expect [TS]

  them to do it because hey we got to have [TS]

  a naked one we're gonna have around the [TS]

  cover [TS]

  we're gonna have her stay here time bunt [TS]

  I really have to think we and it is [TS]

  borne out i think but a television [TS]

  series being an intelligent the world [TS]

  being very interesting and complicated [TS]

  this is done with the purpose that is [TS]

  counter to the normal purpose why she's [TS]

  saying it's that time about it when you [TS]

  just start the movie you have no idea [TS]

  you have no context for that you think [TS]

  it's just a silly joke a woman's expense [TS]

  as the movie goes on you realize she has [TS]

  no time of month she's a full side bar [TS]

  is full conversion cyborg that then it [TS]

  becomes like okay we're just making a [TS]

  joke but it's kind of like a sex joke [TS]

  right so why she naked [TS]

  well there you know there's an inn story [TS]

  reason for that is negative because [TS]

  that's how her thermoptic camouflage [TS]

  work so how convenient your camouflage [TS]

  only works when you're completely naked [TS]

  right which you said you you made an in [TS]

  story reason to get your heroine naked [TS]

  immediately there's gotta be some hurts [TS]

  that you think but the other reason is [TS]

  that it throughout the entire movie the [TS]

  major is naked frequently and I i think [TS]

  there is an in-store reason for that as [TS]

  well and has to do with the major [TS]

  challenging the people around her to see [TS]

  her as anything other than a machine [TS]

  she's like daring them to say bitches do [TS]

  you look at me as a machine or am I a [TS]

  woman I and her nakedness in this in [TS]

  this first scene is you know you're [TS]

  expecting the audience looking at always [TS]

  it's a naked woman and isn't that [TS]

  exciting a naked woman shooting people [TS]

  right exciting and titillating right but [TS]

  as the movie goes on you realize is that [TS]

  a naked woman or is it a machine shaped [TS]

  like a woman that needs to be in this [TS]

  configuration for camouflage purposes [TS]

  like it [TS]

  the major is sort of spiritual struggle [TS]

  throughout this entire thing with you [TS]

  know her ghost and everything is how [TS]

  does what is her conception of herself [TS]

  mystery woman or is she a machine and I [TS]

  guess the theme by keeping her over the [TS]

  head with this movie but every part of [TS]

  the movie is challenging everybody [TS]

  around her [TS]

  this character in the movie and the [TS]

  audience to revisit that question [TS]

  because it's so easy to slip back into [TS]

  thinking you're just watching an [TS]

  animated movie of a woman and i don't [TS]

  know how many times you have to watch [TS]

  this movie to start looking from that [TS]

  angle but it always seems obvious to me [TS]

  that her nakedness throughout this movie [TS]

  and in the credits sequence which starts [TS]

  with something that looks like a robot [TS]

  and ends with something looks like a [TS]

  woman challenging you to say we just [TS]

  showed you the steps it starts with a [TS]

  bunch of metal and ends with a woman why [TS]

  you're looking at that as a woman you [TS]

  just saw how we built that we built it [TS]

  out of metal right we showed you how the [TS]

  movies are made now how do you feel [TS]

  I don't know if anyone else got that [TS]

  from that sequencer you just looked at [TS]

  it with an eye roll instead of making [TS]

  women i think that this movie does a [TS]

  really good job of sort of having it [TS]

  both ways because you're you're [TS]

  absolutely right that's the staple of [TS]

  animes is to have the boobs the pretty [TS]

  girls and stuff like that and I I really [TS]

  looked at it very much the same way that [TS]

  you did John in that you know she is [TS]

  this creature who is you know one either [TS]

  one thing or the other [TS]

  maybe both we don't know and she she has [TS]

  chosen this form and that was the thing [TS]

  that I kept coming back to throughout [TS]

  both the movie and the TV show where you [TS]

  everyone will get a really sort of [TS]

  gratuitous shot and I think that that [TS]

  happened probably more in the TV show [TS]

  that that you know it would just can't [TS]

  take me right out of it for a second and [TS]

  then I'd be like wait a minute this is [TS]

  all complete artifice I mean this isn't [TS]

  just the pretty girl using her [TS]

  prettiness to to distract the bad guys [TS]

  this is a person choosing this shell [TS]

  that is you know has ABS you know maybe [TS]

  it doesn't look like heard about maybe [TS]

  she wasn't even female to start with we [TS]

  don't know and and I find it fascinating [TS]

  to kind of like take a step back and [TS]

  think about it from that from that [TS]

  perspective so I I maybe it's also just [TS]

  me perspective projecting because i want [TS]

  to think that they did this on purpose [TS]

  but i think that it was it was just sort [TS]

  of an artfully done [TS]

  way to include all of the things that [TS]

  you need to have a successful film [TS]

  especially in 1995 but to make some [TS]

  commentary on that for you know in a [TS]

  subtle way for the people who are going [TS]

  to recognize it as such [TS]

  yeah I think they're taking the kind of [TS]

  standard tropes that we would expect in [TS]

  that and subverting them basically yeah [TS]

  the contrast between to tell I think [TS]

  you're totally right the television [TS]

  series says okay we're gonna have some [TS]

  underwear upskirt shots like we're just [TS]

  we're just gonna do it right they ran [TS]

  out of subversion for the team right [TS]

  you should see the output she was in [TS]

  later seasons like it's obviously [TS]

  they're gonna have that but i think the [TS]

  movie plays it straight pretty much [TS]

  entirely like every seen it there's a [TS]

  there's an inn story explanation or [TS]

  thematic explanation of why is this [TS]

  character doing this and it not that all [TS]

  my notes are about making this but [TS]

  helped a lot of them are like it's not [TS]

  going so in the scene when she wakes up [TS]

  in our department not another iconic [TS]

  scene in the movie she gets up he opens [TS]

  a window she gets out of bed walks gets [TS]

  on our jacket and walks out of the room [TS]

  that scene you know waking up in the [TS]

  morning [TS]

  it didn't have a shower sequence which [TS]

  if you've seen a lot of anime is [TS]

  surprising how you had a woman wake up [TS]

  and you didn't show me take her taking a [TS]

  shower how how did she get clean the [TS]

  more she doesn't get clean she doesn't [TS]

  need to hurt a little bit we see it [TS]

  right you know she doesn't mean that's [TS]

  what she does that's all anyway [TS]

  different movie and she should they show [TS]

  her waking up without cutting away she [TS]

  walks into another room she walks back [TS]

  out with her jacket on she's done [TS]

  that's her morning routine she doesn't [TS]

  need to do anything else is trying to [TS]

  say she's not human to get it cuz you've [TS]

  got to focus on the human a point is [TS]

  made that he is not cybernetic that she [TS]

  wanted him on the squad because he isn't [TS]

  cybernetic muon different point of view [TS]

  eventually you have her driving with no [TS]

  hands talking about her mouth moving all [TS]

  staples of this universe but surprising [TS]

  to begin with when she fights that guy [TS]

  that the guy they're chasing around she [TS]

  fights some of the big pool of water or [TS]

  whatever at the end of that scene she's [TS]

  standing over him having knocked him out [TS]

  she's completely naked bateau is there [TS]

  with her and he's looking at the gun [TS]

  saying you're using the wrong ammunition [TS]

  for this gun you're running the muscle [TS]

  which is in character for him but he [TS]

  doesn't care that she's naked behind him [TS]

  and you know it's like again her being [TS]

  naked is partly for the camouflage but [TS]

  why why she [TS]

  just standing there completely naked she [TS]

  could get her clothes back on but she's [TS]

  like would say he he actually there's a [TS]

  scene right after that where he does [TS]

  cover her i'm now that's what you're [TS]

  saying so I think he does care she [TS]

  certainly doesn't write somebody that's [TS]

  all think that's the interaction between [TS]

  the two of them she is daring him to [TS]

  view her as anything other than a [TS]

  machine and during the combat he's [TS]

  intentionally looking at the gun and [TS]

  saying okay well i'm i'm not going to [TS]

  during working times you know i'm not [TS]

  going to do that but then he does come [TS]

  over and put a jack why you putting a [TS]

  job it's like putting a jacket over your [TS]

  motorcycle you know what I mean like it [TS]

  in one respect for the other respect [TS]

  that shows it like there's a romantic [TS]

  tension between these two characters [TS]

  movies very subtle sort of crouching [TS]

  tiger hidden dragon kind of unrequited [TS]

  tip of the tension is there because [TS]

  they're both machines right so how do [TS]

  these to dance around the fact that they [TS]

  have these feelings for each other but [TS]

  they're both full conversion cyborgs and [TS]

  treat each other like coworkers [TS]

  but at a certain point he still because [TS]

  they were once human rights still feels [TS]

  compelled to put the jacket over it [TS]

  happens multiple times where it's some [TS]

  points [TS]

  she's being treated as a person at other [TS]

  points you've been treated like a [TS]

  passenger in a woman shape tank one of [TS]

  my favorite scenes in the entire movie [TS]

  if not my favorite scene is when she's [TS]

  diving and she and she sinks to the [TS]

  bottom that's mine too [TS]

  I i really enjoy that because that that [TS]

  is the movie saying she's not human [TS]

  she sinks to the bottom I i really like [TS]

  that and then she comes back out and has [TS]

  the conversation and that that that is [TS]

  that scene is entirely about what it [TS]

  means to be human or not human because [TS]

  he's asking why do you even do this at [TS]

  and and especially since you don't [TS]

  really you know [TS]

  float like a human being you have to use [TS]

  kind of assistance to float i think that [TS]

  is a fascinating scene and she's wearing [TS]

  she's wearing clothes in that scene john [TS]

  but it is the same themes exactly the [TS]

  same as the same challenge though I get [TS]

  that CD she's wearing clothes but here's [TS]

  the check them off it when she gets back [TS]

  about right and and he and he averts his [TS]

  eyes when she's getting address he turns [TS]

  his back why you turning your back now [TS]

  but you weren't then you didn't get a [TS]

  different context but their challenge at [TS]

  that point is this is what are you going [TS]

  to do if the floaty things stopped [TS]

  working [TS]

  any and and she goes would you dive in [TS]

  after me like a challenge [TS]

  would you know well do you love me or [TS]

  not like what you're diving after me no [TS]

  one forced you to come right [TS]

  like am I person or thing it's her [TS]

  constant challenging of bat-toad [TS]

  specifically about the nature of their [TS]

  relationship and the nature of their [TS]

  being and they're both being converted [TS]

  cyborgs and i think the the contrast is [TS]

  this is much better in the movie than in [TS]

  the television series with television [TS]

  series all the conventional in the [TS]

  movies [TS]

  that's always got you no artificial eyes [TS]

  that don't look like eyes look like [TS]

  little silver discs but his little [TS]

  silver circles are much more expressive [TS]

  in human than her big giant beautiful [TS]

  eyes because her big giant beautiful [TS]

  eyes my doll's eyes right they look [TS]

  completely inhuman whereas the express [TS]

  the expressiveness of his tiny little [TS]

  gray circles are so much greater really [TS]

  mean that it's it's a it's got to be [TS]

  intentional it's a fairly good feat of [TS]

  subtle animation technique to show her [TS]

  to show her sort of sidebar bodies being [TS]

  somehow more inhuman them back toes even [TS]

  though they're both full conversions [TS]

  it's highlighting that the relationship [TS]

  between two of them which they don't [TS]

  speak a lot of lines that you have [TS]

  lessons together is very subtle [TS]

  especially in the end the Hollywood sort [TS]

  of pantheon of these type of [TS]

  relationships where they were [TS]

  this is something they don't hit you [TS]

  over the head with i can imagine lots of [TS]

  people got into anime watch home movies [TS]

  and did not understand the relationship [TS]

  between these two at all that scene is [TS]

  actually that's also my favorite scene [TS]

  it's just indelibly etched in my memory [TS]

  from the very first time i watched this [TS]

  movie back in like 1996-97 whenever we [TS]

  got it for the first time and I think it [TS]

  i mean it is kind of a sledgehammer he [TS]

  seen you know we're talking about the [TS]

  themes that this movie has because this [TS]

  is I think the most blatant that it's [TS]

  it's sort of stated talking about [TS]

  whether you know is she human or not you [TS]

  know her her speech about if they get [TS]

  called to duty she can metabolize all [TS]

  the alcohol in her system within 10 [TS]

  seconds or whatever it is but I think [TS]

  it's it is so poets the most poetic [TS]

  sledgehammer that I've ever been hit [TS]

  over the head with so it doesn't bother [TS]

  me [TS]

  yeah I have the CNMI notes as well for [TS]

  one specific reason [TS]

  the a particular part of this scene [TS]

  where she comes up from the surface with [TS]

  her little floaty things and looks at [TS]

  the sky through her goggles with the [TS]

  water droplets on them as the clouds [TS]

  drift by that particular moment is sort [TS]

  of what if I had to like you know sort [TS]

  of file anime away and my brain under [TS]

  particular thing that particular moment [TS]

  is my my defining characteristic of all [TS]

  the enemy that I love it's it's [TS]

  basically a recurring motif and a lot of [TS]

  my favorite anime and probably in [TS]

  Japanese culture in general as far as i [TS]

  can tell duelling on the fine details of [TS]

  sensory experiences particularly those [TS]

  involving the interaction between the [TS]

  man weird world in the natural there are [TS]

  moments like that in a lot of anime a [TS]

  lot of my favorite anime a couple [TS]

  examples I I thought over the notes over [TS]

  like at the beginning kiki's delivery [TS]

  service where she's sitting on the hill [TS]

  with the wind blowing the radio playing [TS]

  they dwell on that because it is a [TS]

  century experience that we can relate to [TS]

  i don't think you ever ever been scuba [TS]

  diving or gun diving with a mask or [TS]

  anything that that thing of looking [TS]

  through a mask with water droplet time [TS]

  to the rest of the world and feeling [TS]

  like you are inside but you're really [TS]

  outside like you're looking through a [TS]

  window out onto the rest of the world [TS]

  that's a real feeling that I've had and [TS]

  they captured in this movie in like [TS]

  whispered the hard they showed the slow [TS]

  start of a rainstorm on on a city they [TS]

  do on that for a long time if you watch [TS]

  anything by makoto shinkai the sounds of [TS]

  the summer insects are like a theme of [TS]

  his movies because obviously something [TS]

  had a big influence on him those type of [TS]

  scenes like what what makes anime [TS]

  different than regular movies and i [TS]

  would say aside from all the animation [TS]

  and the ninjas in the robots and boobs [TS]

  it's the table in any one of these [TS]

  movies even with ninjas robots and boobs [TS]

  they will put a scene like this where [TS]

  you're looking through the lens of your [TS]

  thing with with the water droplets on it [TS]

  that will resonate with at least with me [TS]

  at a deeper level then I mean maybe how [TS]

  people feel when they watch terrence [TS]

  malick things are like other you know [TS]

  live-action directors of quote-unquote [TS]

  serious movies the japanese animation [TS]

  always speaks to me because every movie [TS]

  will have some small scene like that and [TS]

  when one of them hits home that really [TS]

  hits home and it just adds a whole new [TS]

  layer to a movie that involves cyborgs [TS]

  and tanks but watching a movie I'll and [TS]

  perhaps I was meant to feel this way but [TS]

  I was really confused about what her [TS]

  what the majors story was whether she [TS]

  was and yeah again this is the theme but [TS]

  whether she was once human or always [TS]

  synthetic and i don't know if i missed [TS]

  that or what but I had this whole [TS]

  question of like I don't even know what [TS]

  her deal is is she a robot is she a part [TS]

  person part robot she seems entirely [TS]

  sympathetic and yet there's this [TS]

  question of did she start out as a human [TS]

  being or not and i think that's the [TS]

  setting of the story suggests that this [TS]

  is what's been happening to everybody [TS]

  everybody has this opportunity to be [TS]

  mostly or entirely sympathetic but I it [TS]

  was one of those things that confused me [TS]

  like I didn't I I wasn't sure whether it [TS]

  was meant to be a question or whether i [TS]

  just totally missed it [TS]

  you must go get answered but but only [TS]

  kind of in very briefly in passing but I [TS]

  mean it [TS]

  there's that scene in the elevator we're [TS]

  seeing back to have another kind of you [TS]

  know chat and you know she kind of she [TS]

  is asking that question you know out [TS]

  loud kind of to the audience and bateau [TS]

  cuz i guess kind of plays the role of [TS]

  storyteller but it's just taking it out [TS]

  that they're there is it there is a [TS]

  small organic part of you that is the [TS]

  the human part of you so you know as far [TS]

  as we know she is she's originally a [TS]

  human we don't really get her backstory [TS]

  here or in all 26 episodes that i [TS]

  watched over eventually should do we get [TS]

  a little be explicitly stated ok [TS]

  attending that the elevator seem like [TS]

  he's basically says that it does this by [TS]

  the way Jason is another staple of anime [TS]

  they will be a complicated setting and [TS]

  premise and it will not be explained to [TS]

  you and it goes to the shell that the [TS]

  television series and movies are perhaps [TS]

  the most egregious because they have [TS]

  incredibly complicated machinations of [TS]

  like the the political political [TS]

  intrigue in the end that the world [TS]

  history how many wars have been what [TS]

  countries are there the democracy of the [TS]

  dictatorships who is how does the [TS]

  government were like they don't tell you [TS]

  anything just expected to figure it out [TS]

  and takes like it's it's like you know [TS]

  take your tailor soldier spy ER Syria or [TS]

  any other movies you have to watch nine [TS]

  times to get all the details like that [TS]

  that is a stable that's why this is one [TS]

  or two because it isn't [TS]

  the dense but they did this movie to do [TS]

  say she's got a flesh-and-blood [TS]

  blood-brain and later in the series the [TS]

  television series emphasize the fact [TS]

  like it there's one part of you that is [TS]

  you it is your brain which is this a [TS]

  pretty solid foundation for that being [TS]

  the case and it's a flesh-and-blood [TS]

  thing and it's enhancing cybernetic and [TS]

  so on and so forth but basically if [TS]

  someone squishes that brain part you are [TS]

  dead and you're gone [TS]

  yeah and they actually in the TV show [TS]

  they also did deal with the fact that [TS]

  she had to become fully converted much [TS]

  younger than perhaps that she just then [TS]

  it's recommended so that's part of part [TS]

  of her backstory and why she struggles a [TS]

  little bit and the credit sequence did [TS]

  you watch the credits sequence to the [TS]

  television show Jason I watched both of [TS]

  them [TS]

  yes yes i do you remember the part where [TS]

  she she's is having a dream i think [TS]

  where she's holding a doll and her [TS]

  cybernetic hand but she can't control [TS]

  her cybernetic and it destroys the [TS]

  dollars the doll [TS]

  no yeah that that is these are all [TS]

  underpinnings of write their backstories [TS]

  review i forget if it's into season one [TS]

  or season to it and moves on but that [TS]

  did she was converted very young and [TS]

  that she had to learn to control these [TS]

  cybernetic bodies and that it took some [TS]

  getting any of the shows like how do you [TS]

  become the major how does someone become [TS]

  this person well she's very elevated [TS]

  alienated growing up she didn't grow up [TS]

  like a regular person I and has always [TS]

  felt like I had identity issues [TS]

  Who am I am I person am I machine how am [TS]

  i different than everybody else that you [TS]

  know am i worthy of love how do i have [TS]

  some identity outside of the different [TS]

  bodies that I can inhabit you know all [TS]

  the rest of the themes of the movie I [TS]

  don't want to put too much but I mean we [TS]

  can you help us look at two different [TS]

  openings of of the TV series there's [TS]

  like the original opening and then the [TS]

  replacement opening and one of them is [TS]

  like in the animation style and the [TS]

  other one is like CGI yeah that's just [TS]

  something I I personally really enjoy i [TS]

  like remixes of songs that I like and I [TS]

  like the idea that you know opening [TS]

  sequences of anime series are in and a [TS]

  big thing and an anime TV series [TS]

  specifically that a lot of the time you [TS]

  can eat you'll see an opening sequence [TS]

  you know 30 second song and a bunch of [TS]

  animation it's clear they spend more [TS]

  money in that opening sequence than the [TS]

  first three episodes combined based on [TS]

  the animation quality so there was a lot [TS]

  of love and care into those sequences [TS]

  they're an important part of the show [TS]

  and [TS]

  having one of those and then having them [TS]

  redo it a cgi is it i is a great [TS]

  contrast because i like the idea of like [TS]

  we'd be this beautiful hand-drawn [TS]

  animation can we do it in CGI what does [TS]

  it look worse does it look better is it [TS]

  possible to capture what was good about [TS]

  the other one and in this example I [TS]

  think the hand-drawn one is way better [TS]

  than the cgi want yeah it shows the [TS]

  limits of CGI the time but it's [TS]

  interesting to see them try I'll it will [TS]

  be perhaps less interesting and more [TS]

  depressing to see them try to do a live [TS]

  action version of this with scarlett [TS]

  johansson but that idea of like take [TS]

  this thing now do it this way now do it [TS]

  that way now do with one hand tied [TS]

  behind your back no to all black and [TS]

  white now doing a hand-drawn animation [TS]

  outdoors claim now do it is interpretive [TS]

  dance like i like the idea of that and [TS]

  this particular series when I was [TS]

  watching it had this conversion where [TS]

  you're like the opening they were used [TS]

  to always have appeared in cg like what [TS]

  is going on someone think this was a [TS]

  good idea but it's still very [TS]

  interesting to me yeah I didn't like the [TS]

  cgi at all [TS]

  I mean it and I like CGI and all but but [TS]

  it different doesn't match the show ya [TS]

  and second I felt like I really [TS]

  understood the way that she's portrayed [TS]

  the way the major is portrayed in the [TS]

  show in animation like I i can quibble i [TS]

  like that i like the purple and stuff i [TS]

  think that's really need I can i I think [TS]

  her outfit is ridiculous they ever since [TS]

  teacher assistants [TS]

  yeah what about this one saying is I [TS]

  mean ma I read superhero comics I I know [TS]

  ridiculous outfits when I see it and but [TS]

  in the in the movie it's not like that [TS]

  it's not to this extreme that in the [TS]

  show but but anyway she is that [TS]

  character I don't know there's something [TS]

  about that character you feel like [TS]

  you're you're seeing a portrayal of a [TS]

  very specific character and the cgi is [TS]

  it feels like it's just a generic even [TS]

  though it's the same clothes and the [TS]

  same everything [TS]

  it's like it just kind of a generic cgi [TS]

  figure of a woman instead of that [TS]

  character like the animations it softens [TS]

  all the interesting edges [TS]

  yeah well yeah they're all soft and just [TS]

  kind of literally it's committed to it [TS]

  doesn't even read as a press the same [TS]

  person it just reads like maybe like a [TS]

  cosplayer or something because they you [TS]

  know i mean it [TS]

  the worst is like the very end sequence [TS]

  which is grimacing shooting a gun and [TS]

  grimace when she shoots somebody that's [TS]

  not that's ridiculous red [TS]

  itachi comes come off a little bit [TS]

  better but anyway I i like the remakes [TS]

  aspect of that I think we can wrap up [TS]

  the movie with just the ending sequence [TS]

  which again we're going to take the same [TS]

  themes and keep throwing them in your [TS]

  face and so you can until they they land [TS]

  home at one point the big tank at the [TS]

  end i believe shoots up a giant tree of [TS]

  life type thing like that you know sort [TS]

  of evolutionary ladder type create [TS]

  forget what's written on it I think [TS]

  humans are the top is that but the thing [TS]

  shoots up yeah it comes just short of [TS]

  just short of shooting up here yeah like [TS]

  you're getting it folks you know thanks [TS]

  not not subtle at all but it happens [TS]

  fast enough and i think the words you're [TS]

  in Latin so it's a little bit better but [TS]

  the city the ending the ending bit there [TS]

  is very kind of like I don't say Kira [TS]

  ask or whatever but I think with again [TS]

  with a different person purpose where [TS]

  she's going in the the one-woman [TS]

  wrecking crew to take out this tank [TS]

  she has a plan to execute your plan she [TS]

  gets on top of the tank is trying to [TS]

  tear the lid off the tank to get to the [TS]

  fleshy bits on the inside and defeat the [TS]

  tank and that lid just doesn't want to [TS]

  come off and she took keep rolling [TS]

  she keeps pulling until basically her [TS]

  arms get torn off and this this type of [TS]

  thing that my loves to do where they [TS]

  will show what looks like a vulnerable [TS]

  human person usually a woman using an [TS]

  attractive woman grievously injured in [TS]

  some way is subverted here by her [TS]

  seriously injuring herself as part of [TS]

  the plan that she's executing in such a [TS]

  way that you realize that this is not so [TS]

  much someone being injured but it's more [TS]

  like driving a car really hard like when [TS]

  the hero of your story that he steals a [TS]

  car and drives that car until it's dead [TS]

  she just did that but with her own body [TS]

  because she's essentially driving that [TS]

  body as the pilot more than it is you [TS]

  know a that is herself or whatever then [TS]

  of course you've got the big black [TS]

  helicopters with their the Angel of [TS]

  Death helicopters with their wings [TS]

  unfurling lots of great Mecca design in [TS]

  this thing and snipers with the [TS]

  synchronized breathing apparatus to [TS]

  shoot her through the head and [TS]

  everything again they're aiming for her [TS]

  head because that's the only way you can [TS]

  kill you you shoot another part doesn't [TS]

  do anything you got backhoe once again [TS]

  putting the jacket over her when she's [TS]

  diving into the project 2501 [TS]

  you just need to cover over the jackets [TS]

  the machine but at that point he's [TS]

  thinking of her as a human and covers [TS]

  are up you get your head blown clean off [TS]

  in that scene but she's fine because [TS]

  they didn't actually squish the brain [TS]

  brain park and then the for the final [TS]

  thing that's really making your own [TS]

  comfort or the end they got her in are [TS]

  replanted in a little girl's body which [TS]

  community looks like a little girl [TS]

  version of the major which is a nice [TS]

  touch and I'm saying that you know what [TS]

  do you want to add to the black market [TS]

  this is all I could get [TS]

  yeah and that just spins out her like [TS]

  why would little girl cyborgs be [TS]

  available on the black market and how do [TS]

  you feel about that and now that she's [TS]

  in a little girl body has but to feel [TS]

  about her and have to revisit all their [TS]

  feelings that they had before how do you [TS]

  feel about the feelings they had before [TS]

  it's almost like when you find out later [TS]

  was look sister but even worse [TS]

  yeah I like I am I I think it's really [TS]

  interesting the the end is is a bit of a [TS]

  head-scratcher where they're like you [TS]

  know moving to a different bodies and [TS]

  the two bodies of their and there's the [TS]

  puppet master and they're moving around [TS]

  all that but i did i did like the idea [TS]

  that i'm somewhere i think the wikipedia [TS]

  page says that that the whole idea is [TS]

  that she's she's supposed to be supposed [TS]

  to look like standardly standard [TS]

  available you know parts but even though [TS]

  she's got special stuff on the inside [TS]

  and I like taking that to the extreme at [TS]

  the end was like you know this is what I [TS]

  could get this is what you get to be you [TS]

  get to be the little girl now sorry [TS]

  yeah well but but she says you know it's [TS]

  not her anyway [TS]

  at this point because i was with the [TS]

  puppet master so it's a new creature [TS]

  that's been created that's you know [TS]

  something new in the world that's the [TS]

  one problem with the movie is that it it [TS]

  wanted to have an arc that ended with [TS]

  the sort of merging everything but the [TS]

  movie is going towards is like where [TS]

  we're going to confront you with all [TS]

  these questions about what it means to [TS]

  be a living thing or something worthy of [TS]

  love or what does that even mean [TS]

  and they're going to keep pushing until [TS]

  by the end of the movie you're like well [TS]

  yet getting back to jason's thing what [TS]

  if she was shooting what if she was [TS]

  never alive does that change how you [TS]

  view her what if she is combined with an [TS]

  AI that you know that she's actually [TS]

  made it with AI is she now less worthy [TS]

  of [TS]

  of being treated as a person than she [TS]

  was before what if something was never [TS]

  human-like that's that's where you're [TS]

  going in the movie ends and you can [TS]

  continue off in that direction but the [TS]

  TV series and most of the things that [TS]

  spin off the universe rewind and said [TS]

  let's go back to the beginning of that [TS]

  thing because they don't they don't try [TS]

  to continue on that good matrix style [TS]

  where you get the end of the movie he [TS]

  jumps off from the phone booth then you [TS]

  say let's go see where that goes like no [TS]

  no we have we have this whole world but [TS]

  let's explore different stories for the [TS]

  net world without immediately jumping to [TS]

  humans are useless [TS]

  I destroy and Destroy All Humans about [TS]

  humility and let the machines take over [TS]

  which with which you know you can see [TS]

  this universe going towards but that's [TS]

  not the story they want to tell well so [TS]

  what do you guys think of the movie so I [TS]

  i was really confused by parts and I [TS]

  felt like parts of it i didn't i say [TS]

  wanted me to be confused about and parts [TS]

  of it I thought it just didn't need to [TS]

  make me confused about and it did [TS]

  what's with all the numbers this is the [TS]

  thing that really drove me crazy a [TS]

  second second second we got section nine [TS]

  and we got project 2501 and we're going [TS]

  to a virtually all of the numbers drove [TS]

  me crazy because I i don't know maybe [TS]

  this is just my relationship with [TS]

  numbers but if it had been like the [TS]

  defense division and the secret division [TS]

  or something like that I would have [TS]

  understood it but it's like instead [TS]

  everything is section 9 section 6 [TS]

  project 2501 it feels super x [TS]

  positioning and of course you know there [TS]

  are there are are just endless streams [TS]

  of dialogue there's a very funny part [TS]

  where there's a lot of dialogue and [TS]

  everybody's head the head of the person [TS]

  who's saying it is cut off in the shot [TS]

  so they don't need to animate them [TS]

  talking pages download dialogue lots and [TS]

  lots of dialogue about the government [TS]

  and this in this section is doing this [TS]

  and this is over here and those are [TS]

  those moments where I thought this is [TS]

  are they trying to make a wash over me [TS]

  to the point where I just don't even [TS]

  care anymore or would this have been [TS]

  better off just being more oblique like [TS]

  I would almost rather had been [TS]

  completely confusing then have it be [TS]

  like here's an enormous download of all [TS]

  these things that are similarly named [TS]

  that you don't really understand and [TS]

  that have relationships to one another [TS]

  and that's like so that is actually a [TS]

  staple of anime and if you think the [TS]

  numbers are problem if you can watch [TS]

  more the television series you do [TS]

  realize that naming of the different [TS]

  factions and when splinter groups and [TS]

  parts like it's just as bad it's even [TS]

  worse when they have names because at [TS]

  least the numbers you know don't need [TS]

  any translation they just throw it at [TS]

  you like an object 2501 like everything [TS]

  I mean something the chatroom someone [TS]

  mentions like mi5 and mi6 like a [TS]

  starting point you get used to the [TS]

  number you're all so confusing [TS]

  yeah the world is confusing Jason the [TS]

  cyberpunk world is more confusing this [TS]

  project black eagle or something i'll be [TS]

  like 'ooh project black eagle what does [TS]

  it mean project 2501 it's like project [TS]

  string of numbers [TS]

  oh and there's another project of sorts [TS]

  of different numbers who tell me more i [TS]

  mean i know that didn't they didn't [TS]

  yeah they do they do throw stuff at you [TS]

  they don't want to explain it and at [TS]

  many times it's easy to think that there [TS]

  is no explanation that it is just mumbo [TS]

  jumbo that it's like the star trek talk [TS]

  where you just throw a bunch of words in [TS]

  there it's just science fiction word [TS]

  salad and you know suffice it to say [TS]

  don't like them crystals let's move on [TS]

  right [TS]

  but there usually is an actual story [TS]

  surrounding these things I don't know [TS]

  what makes them want to just throw it [TS]

  like why do we need those details is it [TS]

  like do you want me to have to go to the [TS]

  wikipedia page and look for the help [TS]

  this stuff is but like if you watched [TS]

  nine hundred times eventually you do [TS]

  connect all the dots and it starts to [TS]

  make sense but I don't know what it is [TS]

  in Japanese animation that makes them [TS]

  want to do these incredibly dense and [TS]

  deep backstories to tell what is [TS]

  otherwise a fairly simple story because [TS]

  I like theirs theirs [TS]

  ok so there's an old guy who's bald [TS]

  mostly with gray hair and a little [TS]

  goatee and he's got a team [TS]

  he's got a team of cyborg crime-fighting [TS]

  agent people and they they can fight [TS]

  crime and right wrongs on I totally got [TS]

  that and and what as I got through the [TS]

  movie I'm like oh yeah and this one [TS]

  stood co there is a TV show here this [TS]

  makes this totally makes sense it was [TS]

  just at the beginning again maybe they [TS]

  just want you to feel completely at sea [TS]

  or something but I just felt like when [TS]

  everything is numbered i just i hit [TS]

  through my hands like I have no idea who [TS]

  is who they're talking about when [TS]

  they're talking for a long time about [TS]

  what section 6 section 16 [TS]

  section nine and we need to be part of [TS]

  section 9 again it gives you the feeling [TS]

  like you've dropped down in the middle [TS]

  of something larger that you just are [TS]

  gonna have to figure out I felt like it [TS]

  could have been clearer if they had [TS]

  wanted it to be and I didn't care [TS]

  yeah I think you're exactly right about [TS]

  being dropped in the middle of something [TS]

  that's larger that you don't understand [TS]

  and that's that's actually something [TS]

  that drew me to the movie because and [TS]

  anime in general because i like feeling [TS]

  like I am in a world that is whole and [TS]

  is its own thing that is very separate [TS]

  from what I'm used to [TS]

  I like the fact that anime is so [TS]

  different from most of the entertainment [TS]

  that I'm used to consuming so the fact [TS]

  that that was first of all I felt that [TS]

  that the numbers were were more elegant [TS]

  than all of the names that we get [TS]

  letters little later there's a lot of [TS]

  alphabet soup in the in the TV show and [TS]

  and I like the idea that I that I have [TS]

  to figure this stuff out and I maybe [TS]

  need to watch it a number of times [TS]

  because sometimes I mean I I like easy [TS]

  escapism as much maybe more than the [TS]

  next guy but every once in a while I [TS]

  like to to make my brain work for it a [TS]

  bit and I found I it's hard to remember [TS]

  exactly what I felt the very first time [TS]

  I saw this but I i seem to remember that [TS]

  it was confusing but it was deliciously [TS]

  confusing to me [TS]

  I enjoyed that feeling of you know i [TS]

  felt like i was literally in the middle [TS]

  of it and I was turning left and right [TS]

  and looking up and down and I'm seeing [TS]

  all of these things that i don't quite [TS]

  recognize but they are intriguing to me [TS]

  so much so that i'm willing to put in [TS]

  the work and go back and watch it again [TS]

  and again to really it define these [TS]

  things and and tease it out kinda like [TS]

  twin peaks if you want to compare it to [TS]

  a similar thing where like what is this [TS]

  incomprehensible show that like I don't [TS]

  understand what's going on and I don't [TS]

  know who these people are doesn't make [TS]

  any sense to me and so like did I don't [TS]

  know if they're being intentionally [TS]

  obtuse like twin peaks was like it that [TS]

  was part of the thing but it that is my [TS]

  experience of watching anime is that [TS]

  part of what appeals to me is that I'm [TS]

  going to have a bunch of crap dumped on [TS]

  me and it could be artfully done unless [TS]

  our fleet I think it's way less are [TS]

  fully done in a television series then [TS]

  it is in the movie because the movie the [TS]

  movie takes time out to do as Tony [TS]

  mentioned earlier that you know [TS]

  that the musical montage and everything [TS]

  which you you know whether you like them [TS]

  or you don't it's kind of like a tease [TS]

  musical montage is i love the kind of [TS]

  things right i like i like the anime [TS]

  montages with the with the people ladies [TS]

  yodeling over slow-motion shots of [TS]

  decaying cities with airplanes flying [TS]

  over them like i like that i can [TS]

  understand if you don't but the big [TS]

  exhibition dumps it into that all things [TS]

  like why are you doing this on purpose i [TS]

  think they are doing it on purpose i [TS]

  don't think you can do it by accident [TS]

  they're so good at being so income it's [TS]

  a twin peaks obviously doing it on [TS]

  purpose right and this and that was my [TS]

  point is there are two ways to read this [TS]

  one is they uh they think they're [TS]

  providing texture but by having them all [TS]

  just be numbers instead of something [TS]

  because this is a made-up world ok they [TS]

  could make it up and have labels on [TS]

  things like I said they could say that [TS]

  you know its defense division and and [TS]

  the spy division or whatever and you'll [TS]

  be like oh I get it there that's the [TS]

  defense division and I can Intuit from [TS]

  that what it is or you know or you can [TS]

  just pick numbers and say whatever we [TS]

  don't we don't know what we're doing [TS]

  it's either that or I think would be [TS]

  more likely they wanted to be this web [TS]

  of interconnections that you have to [TS]

  struggle to which I love in novels right [TS]

  i love like what is it embassy town the [TS]

  China Mieville that that is like he just [TS]

  download their other books like this to [TS]

  of neal stephenson's uh-oh an FM is like [TS]

  this where it's like there's just words [TS]

  that you have no idea for up like 500 [TS]

  pages what the words mean and you just [TS]

  have to figure it out and I appreciate [TS]

  that so that that was my struggle with [TS]

  it was like are they really are [TS]

  do they really expect me to be able to [TS]

  keep track of all these numbers or am I [TS]

  supposed to let it wash over me and [TS]

  eventually i'm just gonna figure it out [TS]

  through context and I think that's where [TS]

  i got to its kinda like the difference [TS]

  between learning a language by taking a [TS]

  class and having a teacher explained it [TS]

  to you or just immersing yourself in a [TS]

  culture and moving to someplace like [TS]

  Japan and just figuring it out some of [TS]

  the chairman said that the in Japan the [TS]

  actual ministries are named with numbers [TS]

  like this i always i don't know if [TS]

  that's true or not but I always took it [TS]

  is like having the numbers like section [TS]

  nine maybe the more cyber punky [TS]

  yeah maybe this is retconning section [TS]

  nine now sounds cool to me is it because [TS]

  section 92 section 9 and I know what [TS]

  section is or is it because section it [TS]

  seems like mi5 does my five sound cool [TS]

  because of james bond or was it [TS]

  according to begin with like if you name [TS]

  things with numbers it its it's more of [TS]

  an aesthetic theme it's not so much the [TS]

  use the numbers is the fact that like [TS]

  there are eight thousand moving parts [TS]

  there 700 characters all have different [TS]

  motivations you have to know who [TS]

  which of these political parties who is [TS]

  in power who is not what's motivating [TS]

  this rebel group what's motivating that [TS]

  like there are so many moving pieces [TS]

  most of which get like one word one line [TS]

  or like an animated I glance or like [TS]

  they're mentioned once they've never [TS]

  seen on camera and they're like this [TS]

  huge geopolitical force that everybody [TS]

  in the movie knows about but you have no [TS]

  idea about it because they just end it [TS]

  is realistic in that like if everybody [TS]

  knows about it they're not going to does [TS]

  not going to be the exposition Bob that [TS]

  explains oh there was a world war four [TS]

  and five and here was what happened and [TS]

  then we had these refugees in these [TS]

  people like they're not going to do that [TS]

  for you and it because know people would [TS]

  do that so the idea is that this was a [TS]

  complex future world and we can't [TS]

  explain it so much has changed that we [TS]

  know we're not just gonna do the 11 [TS]

  thing is different it's like it's all [TS]

  different and it's not part of our story [TS]

  but it makes you feel more disconnected [TS]

  like oh this is really the future so [TS]

  much measures changed in the first [TS]

  episode of standalone complex there's [TS]

  something like that where again I think [TS]

  this is just style thing that I have to [TS]

  get used to [TS]

  there's a download at one point that [TS]

  left my head spinning where the guy [TS]

  inches in charge says oh you know the [TS]

  defense ministry and he was meeting with [TS]

  this North American you know whatever it [TS]

  executive from that thing for the talks [TS]

  involving this I'm like okay like it [TS]

  wasn't complacent to say that there's a [TS]

  thing and people are being held hostage [TS]

  by robot indications okay i think in the [TS]

  film it's a little bit harder to because [TS]

  we have we have section 6 section 9 and [TS]

  there they take seem to be adversarial [TS]

  sometimes just an upside down but they [TS]

  also have meetings and I think it's even [TS]

  a little bit harder because like the [TS]

  first scene is we basically have the [TS]

  major who's working for section 9 carry [TS]

  out what seems to be kind of an [TS]

  assassination right and so it's it's [TS]

  it's a little unclear like who is the [TS]

  good guy who is you know you know how [TS]

  good are the good guys and [TS]

  all that also John you're gonna get [TS]

  letters from the James Bond and so watch [TS]

  out for that [TS]

  why am i five mi6 and yeah he's mi6 I i [TS]

  said it's cool because of james bond [TS]

  franchise not him specifically ok i [TS]

  always thought that he just worked for [TS]

  the English agent Department of Special [TS]

  md apartment and it's it's like you know [TS]

  like that Syria or something where [TS]

  everything is in the movie you it they [TS]

  explained in the movie there is at least [TS]

  one line to explain who section 9 is [TS]

  they're the ones who can get their hands [TS]

  dirty to section 6 is the diplomatic [TS]

  corps whatever why the section 6 can't [TS]

  do this and you eventually second 6 [TS]

  review it revealed to be supporting out [TS]

  the and section 9 like not if you watch [TS]

  the television series you see how that [TS]

  goes down between them but this internal [TS]

  warring factions within the government [TS]

  the only thing that's never make clear [TS]

  the entire series is why I section 9 I [TS]

  guess it's just our maki why why are [TS]

  they the one is relatively non-corrupt [TS]

  part of the government every other part [TS]

  of the government is terrible like you [TS]

  should also have especially if they're [TS]

  like where the where the guys that can [TS]

  get her hands dirty carrying out [TS]

  assassinations but where the non-corrupt [TS]

  part right they are but they don't like [TS]

  it feels like it's a cuts a handful of [TS]

  people that's just a good group of kids [TS]

  they're like this five last week that's [TS]

  the key small numbers that's right and [TS]

  and the one the one good leader I mean [TS]

  it's it you know in that respect it's [TS]

  more like a television show but I get [TS]

  the television the format of the [TS]

  television show i think is premise [TS]

  action sequence then a scene where [TS]

  George Lucas style everyone sits there [TS]

  on couches and talks forever about [TS]

  nonsense like it is just unbelievable [TS]

  amount of stuff that you like about you [TS]

  try to follow it and like it's just you [TS]

  feel like it's impossible [TS]

  I've seen this entire series like four [TS]

  times some episodes are still like that [TS]

  I'm just never going to know what [TS]

  they're talking about right and that [TS]

  middle section of these episodes like if [TS]

  you were to format this is the US [TS]

  television show you like maybe cut out [TS]

  the part of the middle where they sit [TS]

  around and talk because you've got some [TS]

  exciting dynamic people here and they [TS]

  always do like set up lots of action [TS]

  lots of talking and then the rest of the [TS]

  story with action because the short show [TS]

  it's like 1 30 minutes or something like [TS]

  that you don't have time for like an [TS]

  hour long drama you really just have to [TS]

  tape a call the story into a talking [TS]

  part in the middle and some episodes do [TS]

  it more gracefully than others and I [TS]

  think that is probably the weakest part [TS]

  of the TV series and the movie i think [TS]

  does a better job of sort of weaving it [TS]

  throughout because they try to have [TS]

  a sex position and less of a complicated [TS]

  plot in general than the reed insane arc [TS]

  that forms the television series and [TS]

  really the movie is more about themes [TS]

  and characters and the world and less [TS]

  about the specifics of the story and so [TS]

  I think it is more artfully done there [TS]

  I mean I i really like this show but I [TS]

  kind of laughed every time they have the [TS]

  the requisite seen in the middle where [TS]

  they have like their conference call [TS]

  except they're all doing it by thinking [TS]

  so that like we don't actually know how [TS]

  to animate anything for like 30 minutes [TS]

  they're just there everyone just seemed [TS]

  like maybe they're in a car maybe [TS]

  there's a room but they're all just [TS]

  thinking their thoughts back and forth [TS]

  to each other just like what is savings [TS]

  ya might ah gasps ah doesn't get to [TS]

  participate had so much driving and [TS]

  thinking using or driving and diving [TS]

  which i think is probably one of the [TS]

  most unsafe things you can do it like [TS]

  texting and driving don't do that you [TS]

  should really give your eyes on the road [TS]

  but then again that they have spare [TS]

  cycles maybe they could do both at once [TS]

  I now see really unsafe there's they're [TS]

  actually better drivers than we are [TS]

  unfortunately a lot of my favorite [TS]

  episodes are in season 2 of this and so [TS]

  I i watched all of season one again and [TS]

  say wait I didn't get to my oh yeah [TS]

  that's in season to this and that's [TS]

  another thing about the format of these [TS]

  episodes i mentioned to Jason but I [TS]

  thought he had a chance of seeing more [TS]

  than two of these at the beginning of [TS]

  the episodes they do this morning i'm [TS]

  going to watch the rest of them it'll [TS]

  just be no good for this podcast they do [TS]

  this thing where they show over the [TS]

  title sequence sure the title of the [TS]

  episode and then it's growing region [TS]

  that is an English explanation of the [TS]

  scene you're about to see in the opening [TS]

  and then a little word tag on the sides [TS]

  of their complex or standalone which is [TS]

  a nice labeling system that perhaps the [TS]

  x-files could have benefited from to [TS]

  tell you is this an episode that it's [TS]

  about the season long arc or is this a [TS]

  standalone episode that's [TS]

  monster-of-the-week and some of my [TS]

  favorite episodes are standalone [TS]

  episodes because it gives them an excuse [TS]

  in a 30-minute format which is very [TS]

  abbreviated you can do a standalone [TS]

  story and if you just watch the archive [TS]

  soldiers I've never done [TS]

  I imagine it would form kind of coherent [TS]

  whole but then you realize how important [TS]

  a standalone episodes are even though [TS]

  they don't move the plot along of the of [TS]

  the the season long arc there's [TS]

  character development all the standalone [TS]

  episodes interesting little story it's [TS]

  kind of something that would have [TS]

  twilight zone ii some of the kind of [TS]

  monster the week type thing but in each [TS]

  episode there's little bit [TS]

  development the later seasons they have [TS]

  development of more obscure characters [TS]

  maybe they ran out of stories for the [TS]

  major impact on everything [TS]

  it's not just character development [TS]

  though to there's some serious [TS]

  world-building done in a lot of those [TS]

  standalone episodes things that while [TS]

  you know maybe they're not exactly [TS]

  moving the plot forward the the themes [TS]

  and technological bits and bobs that you [TS]

  are seeing those and those stories are [TS]

  coming back later and and taking part in [TS]

  the complex type episodes and I feel [TS]

  like yeah it would be interesting maybe [TS]

  to just watch all the complex ones [TS]

  together but I feel like it would be a [TS]

  dinner with no seasoning you'd be losing [TS]

  so much [TS]

  yeah they do definitely like things that [TS]

  you're going to see in the arc episodes [TS]

  they like like a good video game [TS]

  explaining a mechanic to you before [TS]

  challenges you within the level they [TS]

  will explain a particular mechanic and [TS]

  it in in the concept in the context of [TS]

  another story and then in the archive so [TS]

  just use that because they assume you [TS]

  already know what it is and you've seen [TS]

  it before and that that structure works [TS]

  fairly well if you don't know that those [TS]

  labels are there i find it [TS]

  this this season flows well enough that [TS]

  you don't feel like you're going all [TS]

  this is obviously an archive so this [TS]

  obviously standing because they all [TS]

  begin kind of the same way like there's [TS]

  a problem [TS]

  sexytimes gotta look into it what is the [TS]

  deal with this problem there's always [TS]

  some kind of hackers involved are like [TS]

  terrorists or someone like they all kind [TS]

  of look the same [TS]

  what's the difference between market [TS]

  below you know this one the Laughing Man [TS]

  is your your you know symbol for this is [TS]

  going to be an archive so but sometimes [TS]

  they sneak up on you when they do [TS]

  something like this is the senior [TS]

  related to laughing matter at all but a [TS]

  hot actually is and it comes back around [TS]

  it like i'm a sucker for that structure [TS]

  again the x-files lots of other American [TS]

  television shows that use that structure [TS]

  where they get to have their cake and [TS]

  eat it too where you have cool season [TS]

  long arc but you can also have great [TS]

  standalone episodes something I kind of [TS]

  missed on like something like lost where [TS]

  every episode was kind of an arc episode [TS]

  even if they have like this is cyrus [TS]

  back story episode they always felt like [TS]

  there had to be and let's make some [TS]

  progress on the island even if it's like [TS]

  you know two steps forward one step back [TS]

  or something like that whereas the [TS]

  x-files and this thing or like look this [TS]

  episode is just going to be [TS]

  monster-of-the-week we have a really [TS]

  good idea for a story and a cool [TS]

  finishing sequence with the [TS]

  bouquet of flowers at a funeral sorry [TS]

  for spoiling it for you to Jason and [TS]

  that's what we're gonna do I don't [TS]

  remember that was a narc episode or [TS]

  standalone but anyway there something [TS]

  like that some of my favorite episodes [TS]

  are standalone saw and some of them were [TS]

  actually in season 2 which I think could [TS]

  you ask you before like what did you [TS]

  guys think of the the movie judges movie [TS]

  not judges anime not judges like I liked [TS]

  it better than this anime or worse than [TS]

  the other but like it just in general as [TS]

  a movie because I think that's another [TS]

  problem with anime people always want to [TS]

  get a wise it by saying it's my favorite [TS]

  anime we kind of like saying it's my [TS]

  favorite animated movie like the people [TS]

  who only talk about pixar movies in the [TS]

  context of other animated movies and not [TS]

  just like that's one of my favorite [TS]

  movies in general or one of my least [TS]

  favorite like grading on a curve say [TS]

  well it's terrible movie but among all [TS]

  anime it's a good one how do you judge [TS]

  this as a movie movie i liked it as a [TS]

  movie movie in fact I liked it so much [TS]

  the first time i thought that i take it [TS]

  home and showed it to my family and my [TS]

  family had I can't remember my sister [TS]

  and brother had seen enemy by that point [TS]

  I don't think they had I know my parents [TS]

  never had their science fiction fans so [TS]

  they were interested in just sort of the [TS]

  themes of the film to begin with so i [TS]

  knew that there would be at least [TS]

  there'd be something for them to buy [TS]

  into and then they have no problem with [TS]

  subtitles so we didn't have to worry [TS]

  about that and and everybody liked it i [TS]

  mean my brother and sister liked it [TS]

  enough that they have become much bigger [TS]

  anime fans than I have since then but [TS]

  even my parents who I think we're maybe [TS]

  a little hesitant just because they [TS]

  didn't know anything about this quite [TS]

  enjoyed it and I think that they they [TS]

  were a little bit confused by some of [TS]

  the same stuff that you know we've been [TS]

  talking about your sort of supposed to [TS]

  be confused by but i think they were [TS]

  reading enough you know 70 sci-fi that [TS]

  they were totally fine with being [TS]

  completely confused by stuff that's [TS]

  supposed to be confusing and and they [TS]

  all liked it just as a film so I i give [TS]

  it a thumbs up across the board [TS]

  I think it's a great science-fiction [TS]

  movie yeah I've seen it many times [TS]

  because i like it so i'll say it again [TS]

  up i think i'll probably continue to get [TS]

  little little bit to new things out of [TS]

  it so well I can see having only student [TS]

  once i can see the benefit of going back [TS]

  and watching more times because having [TS]

  been in that world forth for that period [TS]

  of time for that hour and a half i feel [TS]

  like i understand it now better than I [TS]

  did when I [TS]

  just the first time and so that I would [TS]

  it would benefit from from from that [TS]

  there were individual things in it that [TS]

  I really like like I [TS]

  I really like like I [TS]

  mention the diving scene III I i like [TS]

  the horror of the garbage man who has [TS]

  this whole story of what he's trying to [TS]

  do that turns out to be completely alive [TS]

  because he's been he's been ghosts [TS]

  hacked into believing things that are [TS]

  not real and he thinks he had a family [TS]

  and the story isn't that his wife didn't [TS]

  leave him or the store and you know what [TS]

  the industry is that he never had a [TS]

  family and they can't erase those like [TS]

  another like nobody and other people [TS]

  know in the movie that's one of the [TS]

  times they explain to the audience oh by [TS]

  the way we can't fix him in our world [TS]

  were saying we can't get rid of these [TS]

  memories yeah so how you know i'm [TS]

  getting i know i know that was that was [TS]

  so that was kind of an amazing scene i [TS]

  really liked the action sequence when [TS]

  they drop through the roof and there's [TS]

  the mech with the giant you know machine [TS]

  guns and she's trying to major trying to [TS]

  take out the tank by herself and ends up [TS]

  ripping her arms off and all that that [TS]

  was a really nice action sequence but [TS]

  like I said I i think i haven't watched [TS]

  a one-time i can't say that i enjoyed it [TS]

  because I think I struggled too much [TS]

  with not having any idea what was going [TS]

  on with a lot of the road a lot of the [TS]

  exposition stuff just being like I I see [TS]

  things are exploding and I know people [TS]

  are being sent various places to do [TS]

  things but like any nuance of what is [TS]

  actually going on was completely lost on [TS]

  me because I just was a completely it's [TS]

  at sea so I I you know I really [TS]

  appreciate the relationship between who [TS]

  I would I guess call the two main [TS]

  characters which are the major and photo [TS]

  but yeah but no I really enjoyed that [TS]

  relationship and we've talked about some [TS]

  of that about their conversation on the [TS]

  boat after she's done diving him [TS]

  apologizing for getting there late he [TS]

  comes in to save the day at the very end [TS]

  and so sorry I'm so sorry I'm late it's [TS]

  like dipped least you saved everything [TS]

  at the very end sorry I'm late I i liked [TS]

  a lot of that [TS]

  stuff it was a lot there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff in there and I guess I guess what [TS]

  I'm saying is i'm not opposed to seeing [TS]

  it again because i feel like i [TS]

  understand it more and what it did do is [TS]

  make me realize what a great world this [TS]

  would be for an ongoing series about [TS]

  this team which is what they made and [TS]

  watching those two episodes of the [TS]

  standalone complex series i really liked [TS]

  them although although again i have as a [TS]

  as a a American pop culture person I i [TS]

  still have those moments of like this is [TS]

  just not a mixture of things that I'm [TS]

  used to because again it's a half-hour [TS]

  story that's animated that has one of [TS]

  the characters running down the street [TS]

  shouting shit shit shit right and it's [TS]

  like well that who is this for I'm [TS]

  asking myself because it is weird [TS]

  combination of things that would not be [TS]

  put together in a piece of American [TS]

  entertainment and yet you know I i liked [TS]

  it and I recognize a lot of the troops [TS]

  from science fiction and I think as a TV [TS]

  show it it it it work better for me in [TS]

  the sense like like I got how this would [TS]

  be really good as a recurring series of [TS]

  problems for this team to solve because [TS]

  that's I felt like that how I didn't [TS]

  mention the other thing that I thought [TS]

  was really funny about it is that we [TS]

  talked about influences here i got real [TS]

  Miami Vice vibe from this at several [TS]

  points like like bato is is is kind of [TS]

  like cyborgs Don Johnson this is [TS]

  American culture being reflected back at [TS]

  us a little bit yeah a little bit later [TS]

  it was fascinating the music the way [TS]

  that the way the music plays at times is [TS]

  actually very michael mann where you've [TS]

  got you've got the the the nature and [TS]

  the cityscape kind of together and it's [TS]

  a quiet moment and it's like it was [TS]

  almost like write out a man hunter or [TS]

  something or miami vice but very michael [TS]

  mann too so that really amused me [TS]

  because i did not expect to get to see [TS]

  you know the mid-eighties reflected back [TS]

  via the the nineties in Japan and that [TS]

  that is what I got he is very done [TS]

  Johnson motto is and that's one of the [TS]

  most fun things about anime because [TS]

  American culture has had such an [TS]

  influence in Japan they are co-opted but [TS]

  sort of twisted it and then against back [TS]

  at you and you're like this looks [TS]

  vaguely familiar but not quite right [TS]

  right when it comes back it up sometimes [TS]

  you don't even recognize it as [TS]

  what what it originally was because they [TS]

  they co-opted and make it their own and [TS]

  when it comes back it is this mutant [TS]

  strain but somehow familiar as well yeah [TS]

  I also i love and this is something more [TS]

  anime i watch the more I realize this is [TS]

  just a thing i'm going to do is I love [TS]

  seeing Roman characters in the [TS]

  background [TS]

  it's like what did they choose to have [TS]

  be in english or at least in Roman [TS]

  characters [TS]

  that's fascinating because that's the [TS]

  stuff that's not translated right they [TS]

  the filmmakers put it in there [TS]

  everything else we get all the dialogue [TS]

  is translated either by redubbed or [TS]

  subtitles but then they'll just be some [TS]

  words and I i get a great deal of joy [TS]

  out of seeing what what they put in [TS]

  things i can read and where they are [TS]

  just in the background on on a sign [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  it makes me laugh be careful with [TS]

  fansubs because sometimes they digitally [TS]

  replace signs with things that look like [TS]

  they were put there by the original [TS]

  animators but weren't the chain is not [TS]

  changing movie you watch but sometimes [TS]

  they do it they shouldn't do that [TS]

  because that's too cool [TS]

  it's too cool to see like in kiki's [TS]

  delivery service that is you know [TS]

  theoretically takes place in Northern [TS]

  Europe and so there are amusing like [TS]

  signs that are written in English or in [TS]

  core German like languages and you know [TS]

  it's writing that we can read so that's [TS]

  kind of fun too [TS]

  so anyway i would say i would say I [TS]

  struggled with the movie but by the end [TS]

  i felt like i got the power of the [TS]

  setting and I as a result when I rolled [TS]

  into the TV series I thought that was a [TS]

  lot of fun so I should probably go back [TS]

  now that I understand a little bit more [TS]

  about section section section 9 and it's [TS]

  not just number salad i might be able to [TS]

  appreciate it even more and you know I [TS]

  was a william gibson reader from way [TS]

  back and these are the and Max Headroom [TS]

  fan right and never did some of the [TS]

  overlay stuff they do with the like the [TS]

  green blinking and the like the labels [TS]

  the heads-up display kind of labels on [TS]

  everything is straight out of Max [TS]

  Headroom too so I like that as a [TS]

  cyberpunk kind of remix coming back any [TS]

  yeah have been lots of that is actually [TS]

  unfortunately the result of nineties [TS]

  computer technology and not snow so much [TS]

  an artistic choice but it ends up being [TS]

  an artistic choice about it is it is a [TS]

  an old-tech conception of future attack [TS]

  that I find kind of charm [TS]

  I mean max headroom is the same way [TS]

  right it was at the time it was like how [TS]

  do we use computers from 1985 to project [TS]

  cyberspace of the future and the answer [TS]

  is it's all like wireframe me and/or [TS]

  it's like animated like the hitchhiker's [TS]

  guide to the galaxy TV series it's like [TS]

  hand animated in a style that appears [TS]

  computery will make a green on black and [TS]

  make it look like there's a scanline and [TS]

  it'll totally be computery was actually [TS]

  a smart choice for this movie doesn't [TS]

  look as dated because they they knew the [TS]

  limitations of technology and they said [TS]

  we're gonna have this overview of the [TS]

  city let's just make everything green [TS]

  because i know it's kind of silly for [TS]

  everything to be green but we can put we [TS]

  can do green green is what we've got [TS]

  like this go to do with that as opposed [TS]

  to trying to do it in full CG because [TS]

  that's the beauty of anime as they have [TS]

  never been limited by that you can draw [TS]

  anything you want and they do right and [TS]

  one computer technology came on there [TS]

  like what can we do with computers that [TS]

  would be difficult to do with drawing or [TS]

  they will add some kind of edge or [TS]

  whatever and i just think this movie and [TS]

  most at japanese animation the [TS]

  hand-drawn stuff is so much better than [TS]

  any computer stuff it's like just keep [TS]

  the computer stuff into distance unless [TS]

  you can unless you can make it really [TS]

  convincing let's do opening sequences [TS]

  really do i mean that that shows you and [TS]

  again group good CGI is a mate can have [TS]

  amazing character design and we've seen [TS]

  with Pixar movies and other other great [TS]

  movies but those two scenes if you [TS]

  compare them it's like that it that [TS]

  character that is the major that if that [TS]

  is her in the hand-drawn animation [TS]

  opening and then the other one it's just [TS]

  a piece of plastic [TS]

  it is just if one of the top of you you [TS]

  can take that you could take that into [TS]

  animation class and say what what makes [TS]

  these things different because one of [TS]

  these is a fully-realized character [TS]

  hand-drawn but fully realized character [TS]

  and the other one is a dull it's amazing [TS]

  yeah I get kind of jarred out of it in [TS]

  the the TV show they they like to use [TS]

  CGI for a lot of the car chases and [TS]

  things yeah that's what it's it's it's [TS]

  the era its beauty and the beast thing [TS]

  right whether yeah we can we can animate [TS]

  can do cars we can do but we can do [TS]

  boxes sliding across the screen [TS]

  yeah well I mean it's like futurama they [TS]

  do rigid bodies ships cars large [TS]

  buildings like and eventually but [TS]

  eventually anime television series got [TS]

  good enough added that it kind of share [TS]

  sells it you know it's the budget for TV [TS]

  is very different [TS]

  budget for film yeah so that's why by [TS]

  the way you should never watch the to [TS]

  put quote-unquote 2.0 version this movie [TS]

  in which they replace a lot of stuff [TS]

  with CG it is worse than always pretend [TS]

  it doesn't exist [TS]

  yeah i didn't i didn't know until just [TS]

  now and in two seconds I'm gonna be back [TS]

  to not knowing i'm erasing it that's [TS]

  right right that's what I'm telling [TS]

  everybody when they were watching we're [TS]

  going to you know watch this before they [TS]

  hear the podcast do not watch the dew [TS]

  point i'll find the original seek it out [TS]

  it's very easy to type ghost in the [TS]

  shell and get the new one you do not [TS]

  want that you were about live-action [TS]

  movie starring scarlett johansson yeah [TS]

  well I got to get to that in a second [TS]

  but first I want to talk about your [TS]

  rewatch idea [TS]

  re watching this like if this is not [TS]

  your kind of movie forget about the fact [TS]

  that it's animated if the if the pacing [TS]

  and sort of flow of this movie with the [TS]

  weird musical montages and the sort of [TS]

  philosophical talking to each other in [TS]

  the quiet moments if that doesn't appeal [TS]

  to you and you will never liked this [TS]

  movie that's what this movie is all [TS]

  about right but at the very least on the [TS]

  rewatch you can see how like typical [TS]

  movie stuff did you notice that he [TS]

  showed the pictures of his family to his [TS]

  is the the his garbage truck co-worker [TS]

  of course you did but you didn't notice [TS]

  that you never got to see the picture [TS]

  because you weren't thinking that you're [TS]

  like whatever he shown in picture is not [TS]

  important but it later it becomes [TS]

  important that you never saw that [TS]

  picture because the picture of him in [TS]

  his dog or whatever from the park not [TS]

  things like that you will get on a [TS]

  second watch that only connect up after [TS]

  the fact and that's like any movie with [TS]

  isn't it you know like the success or [TS]

  anything where there's a any kind of [TS]

  twist or plot reveal or now you know [TS]

  more about the world you can watch and [TS]

  see all that actually makes sense and it [TS]

  all fits together and that way you can [TS]

  enjoy the movie in a more detailed level [TS]

  that the sort of political intrigue and [TS]

  the warring factions in the movie are [TS]

  much less important than the themes i [TS]

  mean there there you can figure them out [TS]

  but they are they don't reveal much more [TS]

  other than making you not be confusing [TS]

  and putting you in the brain state where [TS]

  you're like do I have to know this to [TS]

  make sense of the next scene in the [TS]

  movie in general you just have to know [TS]

  what the big moving pieces on the board [TS]

  are and it's really more of a character [TS]

  in themes story playing out over this [TS]

  backdrop like you didn't even need to [TS]

  know who was writing that tank who is [TS]

  sending those helicopters to shoot her [TS]

  you just need to know that these are [TS]

  threats and that how she's doing because [TS]

  really the internal struggle i think is [TS]

  more important than the extra Hollen [TS]

  yeah the external struggle becomes much [TS]

  more I think important in the TV [TS]

  go write a movie is much more artfully [TS]

  internal struggle now I mean I i doubt [TS]

  the the TV show would spend whatever [TS]

  five minutes for about a cyborg diving [TS]

  yeah I'm so for the for the physics the [TS]

  actual device will talk about the [TS]

  live-action movie here a little bit more [TS]

  to say about the TV show after that but [TS]

  so the the prospect of a live-action [TS]

  version of this has been talking about [TS]

  for many years as with any sort of [TS]

  iconic animation thing some people want [TS]

  to see a live action version of it some [TS]

  people don't now apparently they're [TS]

  making it i don't know who's attached [TS]

  other than scarlett johansson who's [TS]

  directing it [TS]

  it's a stevens field produced I'm not [TS]

  sure who's directing it [TS]

  yeah well so high i have dim hopes for [TS]

  this movie not just because they cast [TS]

  Scarlett Johansson but because she just [TS]

  totally does not reduce the major made [TS]

  race reasons totally aside like the [TS]

  character doesn't seem like that to me [TS]

  the reason i don't think it'll work at [TS]

  least as a live-action version of the [TS]

  movie we saw is that no one will ever [TS]

  would ever make a live-action movie of [TS]

  this like no one's ever you do a [TS]

  shot-for-shot remake and no one is ever [TS]

  going to ape these themes and this style [TS]

  in this pacing and like the core of this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  no one would let you make a live-action [TS]

  really expensive movie with this court [TS]

  because the it is it is subtle it's [TS]

  nuanced it is lost on a lot of people [TS]

  and it's just not broadly appealing [TS]

  right it's not it's not a crowd-pleaser [TS]

  write this this movie is that crowd [TS]

  pleaser except to you know anime fans [TS]

  and a lot of them are taking the wrong [TS]

  banks from it if you watch this movie [TS]

  and really excited by boobs you're not [TS]

  you're not getting the message that the [TS]

  movie is trying to say if you're right [TS]

  there's other sources you could go to [TS]

  write right it's not like they can't [TS]

  they're never going to make a movie that [TS]

  is in any way like this can make another [TS]

  movie sort of like a loosely based on [TS]

  sure I mean they made blade runner out [TS]

  of do androids dream of electric sheep [TS]

  and there's like no relation between us [TS]

  whatsoever like and they're both really [TS]

  interesting and great in their own right [TS]

  so I don't I don't begrudge them an [TS]

  attempt to make a good movie loosely [TS]

  based on this but i don't think anyone [TS]

  ever has the guts or the financial [TS]

  wherewithal to make a live-action movie [TS]

  that is either this live-action version [TS]

  of this movie or a live-action movie [TS]

  like this movie which is a shame because [TS]

  I like movies like this i think that i [TS]

  think that was probably going to happen [TS]

  the greatest danger is that they will [TS]

  not be loose [TS]

  enough with their interpretation of it [TS]

  they will try to stick closer to it than [TS]

  they probably should but they'll leave [TS]

  out all of the beautiful pieces that [TS]

  make it what it is and it will just be a [TS]

  mediocre action movie with lots of [TS]

  explosions and a half naked woman [TS]

  it'll be like the CG version of the [TS]

  openings like we're doing the same [TS]

  things right here she is getting out of [TS]

  bed here she is questioned the doll here [TS]

  she is like jumping around like that's [TS]

  what that was right you know so little [TS]

  they have a scene of her trying to tear [TS]

  lid off at anchor arms a break off its [TS]

  like that wasn't like you have to build [TS]

  the movie like you can also we already [TS]

  we have that movie right mentally and I [TS]

  think it's fine i like that idea if you [TS]

  want to do a shot for shot live-action [TS]

  reinterpretation of this i give you [TS]

  license to do it go ahead try to do it i [TS]

  think it really hard because I think [TS]

  this is the beautifully animated movie [TS]

  and I think it really hard to be that [TS]

  live action but if you want to give it a [TS]

  try go ahead but if you if you just do [TS]

  the sort of we have to have a scene like [TS]

  this we have seen like that like that [TS]

  pic the seven iconic scenes in this [TS]

  movie put them in the movie the cross [TS]

  they're not going to put the scuba scene [TS]

  because they don't understand what that [TS]

  seems about as sure as hell not gonna [TS]

  have a shot through a bunch of goggles [TS]

  water droplets on it because i have no [TS]

  idea what that was in the movie in the [TS]

  first place and it'll just be like you [TS]

  made an action movie there's a few [TS]

  scenes look familiar to me [TS]

  I think it would be worse like I'm i'm [TS]

  not a big comic fan but like the [TS]

  watchman movie was big about like this [TS]

  is like a power from the comic right [TS]

  guys right elbow elbow at the very least [TS]

  watch Mego has the sin city movies if [TS]

  you really value is exactly the same [TS]

  thing but it but further get stabbed [TS]

  right in the hood it at the very least I [TS]

  felt like as someone who is not a big [TS]

  comic fan i vaguely understood what the [TS]

  watchman comic series was about the [TS]

  matically from watching the movie I [TS]

  recognize that the movie was diverse [TS]

  problems with the movie you know I i can [TS]

  understand people who said that is a [TS]

  pale shadow of the comic book series [TS]

  which I think at this point actually [TS]

  have read most of the comic book series [TS]

  but like I understand the historical [TS]

  context surrounding that comic and how [TS]

  you it's not reflected in the movie and [TS]

  it's this like kind of like I think the [TS]

  watch movies like the best-case scenario [TS]

  for a live-action ghost in the shell not [TS]

  the worst get that is as good as it's [TS]

  ever going to get and just everything [TS]

  else is like the worst-case scenario i [TS]

  guess is Lucy right where the spirit or [TS]

  something like that yeah [TS]

  rupert sanders director of snow white [TS]

  and the huntsman as his only major [TS]

  feature is [TS]

  attached to that ghost in the shell live [TS]

  action by the way [TS]

  mm but Justin seemed likely nervous [TS]

  nervous why and it's ya produced by [TS]

  produced by Avi Arad who's the guy [TS]

  syracuse a sense tingling former Marvel [TS]

  Comics producer guy hit who did the [TS]

  spider-man movies so yeah yeah and for [TS]

  the TV series i could make a live-action [TS]

  TV series like this i think that is an [TS]

  easier sell because if you look at the [TS]

  the anime TV series one thing we didn't [TS]

  mention is that the TV series version of [TS]

  ghost in the shell inject humor into [TS]

  what the movie is almost entirely [TS]

  humorless like it's pretty dark pretty [TS]

  grim pretty straightforward the TV [TS]

  series has touch Acamas like they had [TS]

  their own little spin off things I put a [TS]

  little shorts in there I know if you [TS]

  watch them that is a big part of the [TS]

  series that is it kind of like not like [TS]

  the 18 but like section nine jokes with [TS]

  each other they have personalities like [TS]

  they go on these adventures they solve [TS]

  crimes they you know they work out their [TS]

  personal issues you know like it is more [TS]

  like a very traditional american TV show [TS]

  with a bunch of upskirt shots thrown [TS]

  into it ends ridiculous outfits for the [TS]

  women like so it's got everything bad [TS]

  that you would think from japanese [TS]

  animation series a lot of the bad stuff [TS]

  american series but also a lot of the [TS]

  good things and i don't know i worry [TS]

  that an American TV version would would [TS]

  look a lot like the short-lived TV [TS]

  series almost human [TS]

  i watch that and I would hope that it [TS]

  could be much better because the eat [TS]

  just as cast of characters have a guy [TS]

  who's like this have a guy like even if [TS]

  you just take the broadest cartoon [TS]

  outlines of these characters it is a [TS]

  nice dynamic within the group and I [TS]

  think american shows do sort of ensemble [TS]

  uh like honestly this is just a lius at [TS]

  that point other than that the cyborg so [TS]

  well but anything you have the setting [TS]

  this like I said that the the television [TS]

  series does take the setting seriously [TS]

  and most of their stories like their [TS]

  their entire it's not [TS]

  monster-of-the-week it's explore [TS]

  ramifications of these the world that we [TS]

  have drawn typing what like every [TS]

  episode we'll explore some ramification [TS]

  not as if it's at revelation to the [TS]

  people involved but because it's like [TS]

  matter of course like up another you [TS]

  know cyber brain is hijacked a tank is [TS]

  rampaging through the town up this this [TS]

  girl had to be transferred into a [TS]

  different body and can't handle it like [TS]

  it just happens all the time you just [TS]

  gotta deal with it but to the view [TS]

  it's all new and that that's the [TS]

  excitement that I think you know would [TS]

  would come through in the television [TS]

  series that you have this group of [TS]

  people and their leader and they're [TS]

  funny little robots and the problems [TS]

  they would solve it they would treat the [TS]

  matter of factly but it's very [TS]

  interesting to you because you're not [TS]

  used to this world and i think almost [TS]

  human fell down because it was like the [TS]

  people in the show was shocked about the [TS]

  world deliverance and you lived there [TS]

  this is all normal to you it's supposed [TS]

  to be shocking to us you can I go I [TS]

  robots talking for themselves like [TS]

  that's almost internet problems [TS]

  yeah but i had dr. McCoy that was good [TS]

  it was good it was not that came and his [TS]

  wacky wacky robot sidekick drive around [TS]

  solving crimes unit thing they're like [TS]

  we got rid of the robots but now we're [TS]

  bringing them back to makes it to add [TS]

  like the fish-out-of-water they might [TS]

  have aisles had like one phrase unfrozen [TS]

  caveman cop like you're like what you [TS]

  woke up we unfroze you guess what we [TS]

  have robots in the police now how do you [TS]

  feel about that [TS]

  Jason ghost in the shell american [TS]

  edition Karl Urban is the major are you [TS]

  on board [TS]

  no no its back to Carla organs bought 2i [TS]

  will think about it that probably makes [TS]

  a lot more sense because I don't really [TS]

  want to see Karl Urban wearing that [TS]

  outfit with purple hair [TS]

  I think he could sell it you should see [TS]

  though you should see her hair styles in [TS]

  the second season they have like wearing [TS]

  this weird sailor suit thing it just [TS]

  goes out of control like the only good [TS]

  like that's the great thing about [TS]

  television series does more of that like [TS]

  ridiculous animate things but then her [TS]

  expression is stone-cold killer the [TS]

  whole time like she just not giggle [TS]

  she's not worth anything right but she's [TS]

  wearing this outfit is like how to set [TS]

  like it they I think they tried to the [TS]

  TV series you start to you stop at least [TS]

  I started to try to rationalize it in my [TS]

  head again head can and stuff like that [TS]

  she is playing dress up on herself as a [TS]

  doll but like she's basically playing [TS]

  with dolls and the dollars herself but [TS]

  she still wants to be taken seriously so [TS]

  still just completely straight face [TS]

  expression all time and no one ever says [TS]

  anything about it because no one's gonna [TS]

  say anything to the major about anything [TS]

  like what are you going to make fun of [TS]

  her outfit that's not going to go well [TS]

  for you [TS]

  so that's my rationalization myself and [TS]

  you don't even you also really don't [TS]

  even get any if any sort of heat from [TS]

  any of the other characters that they're [TS]

  not like looking at her when she's not [TS]

  looking there at that point but by the [TS]

  time the TV show rolls around it seems [TS]

  like the other characters even bato are [TS]

  really not treating her any differently [TS]

  because she's female because she's [TS]

  dressed [TS]

  this way certainly the gaze of the [TS]

  camera and i'm guessing a lot of the [TS]

  audience and definitely treat her [TS]

  differently but within the the world the [TS]

  fiction of the show she is just the [TS]

  major and she's just doing her thing and [TS]

  they kind of ignore that that extreme is [TS]

  trappings which which I appreciated i [TS]

  was able to i was able to sort of hand [TS]

  wave it away a little bit because [TS]

  because nobody else is paying attention [TS]

  to it so I was like all right you know [TS]

  what I'm not going to either [TS]

  yeah it's like the it's like the world [TS]

  of Star Trek the world the way star trek [TS]

  is supposed to be where hot you know [TS]

  they're there is no class structure [TS]

  there's no money [TS]

  listen you know everyone is like women [TS]

  are manageable equal like the characters [TS]

  in this setting behave that way always [TS]

  right and aside from the vague romantic [TS]

  tension between bato and the major that [TS]

  is still there in the television series [TS]

  does not play it up quite as much [TS]

  everybody else is all about business and [TS]

  they care about each other and they are [TS]

  a team but there is never anything like [TS]

  that from anybody for many of our [TS]

  superiors the sexual harassment from her [TS]

  superiors it's not clot money doing in [TS]

  that way it feels so much more future [TS]

  worldy then have an American television [TS]

  because of the absence of luv [TS]

  yes and that's that's what I like so [TS]

  much and actually speaking of the [TS]

  romantic tension that is something that [TS]

  I never really read into it but i think [TS]

  that that was for me kind of a personal [TS]

  preference headcanon type of a thing [TS]

  because it's so rare to see a really [TS]

  kick-ass female character existing in [TS]

  any kind of media property where she is [TS]

  not also an object of affection of [TS]

  romantic intent from somebody whether [TS]

  it's required or not so for me I found [TS]

  this very refreshing that she was a just [TS]

  an amazing female character who is doing [TS]

  her thing and you know [TS]

  yeah she doesn't have a human body but [TS]

  she still presents herself as female and [TS]

  and that she's not treated any [TS]

  differently because of that it's not [TS]

  like oh my God look at the girl is doing [TS]

  that was really cool and nothing between [TS]

  her and bato was overt in anyway so i [TS]

  was able to read it as just these are [TS]

  two grown-ups that have a very very deep [TS]

  affection for each other in a very sort [TS]

  of complex relationship and I was able [TS]

  to read it and watch it without seeing [TS]

  any romantic over [TS]

  tones because that's much more [TS]

  comfortable for me because it's more [TS]

  refreshing and it's different from what [TS]

  I'm used to so so I prefer to i prefer [TS]

  to not see that and maybe that's also [TS]

  you know my doctor who old-school doctor [TS]

  who fan coming through [TS]

  I don't want hanky-panky the TARDIS I [TS]

  don't want hanky-panky in Miami [TS]

  what sort of thing is they're they're [TS]

  the reason there's tension there is [TS]

  there can't be in there two robots [TS]

  alright like that they even mentioned i [TS]

  think it's a famous in the TV series [TS]

  whatever bato asks like why do you why [TS]

  do you bother picking a woman like [TS]

  michelle for yourself like the men he [TS]

  picks the big strong man one like why [TS]

  wouldn't your picking a weaker thing and [TS]

  for her it's more like a combat [TS]

  stylistic choice or whatever but it's [TS]

  like there is no gender here speaking [TS]

  wise there's no there's no hanky-panky [TS]

  going on this stupid robot like nothing [TS]

  is going to happen like that is the [TS]

  tension the tension is the day they have [TS]

  human brains that still feel loved [TS]

  but everything else that we relate to [TS]

  love is pointless because they're just a [TS]

  bunch of their just riding around these [TS]

  giant human shape tanks right and that [TS]

  is the tension of the series and so if [TS]

  you wanted to be like it's not romantic [TS]

  tension it is like it's like [TS]

  relationship tension the fact that is [TS]

  between a man and woman you could put [TS]

  them both into bateau shaped things and [TS]

  the same tension would be there like it [TS]

  doesn't it [TS]

  that's the challenge is doing to say [TS]

  what is a relationship what is romance [TS]

  what is love is it just the you know [TS]

  mechanical act what if we take that [TS]

  mechanic the way does it exist at all [TS]

  what if you just have a memory of an [TS]

  existing how are you like how are you [TS]

  acting it out and I think they have a TV [TS]

  series her like sleeping with someone [TS]

  sort of and having like cyber brain sex [TS]

  or whatever like they try to find ways [TS]

  into that like what is the new [TS]

  manifestation of these feelings that we [TS]

  all have our is it like an evolutionary [TS]

  dead end and this is just a pointless [TS]

  thing but you can wish it away because [TS]

  they don't ever act on it but this [TS]

  because they can't act on it just sort [TS]

  of like one more underlying sadness to [TS]

  battle was always kind of like I did [TS]

  terrible things in the war and I rumpled [TS]

  and it's kind of like mike from breaking [TS]

  bad right like that's his whole thing [TS]

  and one more thing is and by the way i'm [TS]

  in love with another robot and i myself [TS]

  am a robot it's pointless and I hate [TS]

  myself for doing it but I do care about [TS]

  her [TS]

  no like he goes back it you know i don't [TS]

  want to run the end of the TV series but [TS]

  this there's some bits with the watch in [TS]

  there that that illuminate the same [TS]

  themes of the series and if you watch [TS]

  the second time you will realize that [TS]

  they were trying to tell you something [TS]

  with the watch and battles actions [TS]

  involving the watch and tachikoma is it [TS]

  yeah you don't need to watch it you [TS]

  don't need to watch it a second time to [TS]

  get that if there if you're paying [TS]

  attention it's it's pretty clear that [TS]

  was that was actually the very first [TS]

  time when we get to that point that i [TS]

  actually saw oh that's that's kind of [TS]

  what they're going for every time before [TS]

  that when they were interacting and [TS]

  there was the tension for me I I just [TS]

  character-wise I didn't see them as as [TS]

  sort of having that type of affection [TS]

  for each other i just thought it was was [TS]

  more to kindred he's definitely not for [TS]

  each other the major is just I just felt [TS]

  like there are two kindred spirits that [TS]

  were experiencing sort of this this loss [TS]

  of their their humanity and internet [TS]

  determine what they were now and and I [TS]

  liked that sort of more cerebral side of [TS]

  it and and yes it is kind of an [TS]

  interesting thing to think about the the [TS]

  the fact that you're still going to have [TS]

  emotions even though you are inside this [TS]

  this great big shell but it didn't [TS]

  really hit me very hard until the very [TS]

  end there [TS]

  yeah and it's to like it the backstory [TS]

  the eventually get for these is like so [TS]

  she was converted you're young and my [TS]

  toe is sort of in the armed forces and [TS]

  was converted later mostly converted for [TS]

  military purposes to be baking Strong's [TS]

  converted piecemeal I he is dealing with [TS]

  it a fresher wound sort of of leaving [TS]

  his humanity behind but she's been doing [TS]

  it for a long time and it's different [TS]

  kind of more alien and he is kind of [TS]

  grasping at her like they're both to [TS]

  sort of people drowning in cybernetics [TS]

  grasping at each other and I don't know [TS]

  why they're not grasping other people [TS]

  maybe because they're not full [TS]

  conversion cyborgs but like they're [TS]

  they're finding each other in this [TS]

  wilderness and she's like she is [TS]

  disinfected and going off in the movie [TS]

  into the realm of like I am transhuman [TS]

  now and [TS]

  I'm just moving on and he is like I have [TS]

  these feelings and I remember what it [TS]

  was like to be human and I I don't [TS]

  understand it and can you help me with [TS]

  it was like he's hanging out with her [TS]

  like a lost puppy and she's like [TS]

  thinking about other things so it is not [TS]

  it is not a bi-directional thing about [TS]

  how you define it is more unidirectional [TS]

  but they do they do lean on each other [TS]

  throughout the movie and television [TS]

  series done anything else we should talk [TS]

  about before we before we wrap it up [TS]

  anything else you'd like to hear from [TS]

  your your students your subjects I'd [TS]

  like to know that you finish the TV [TS]

  series and i have a warning that the TV [TS]

  series is as i described all the [TS]

  episodes follow that format in the [TS]

  middle parts of every episode where they [TS]

  talk about expedition are just [TS]

  impenetrable that's part of why I wanted [TS]

  to watch the series of it is very [TS]

  challenging in that regard like and i [TS]

  liked it i wouldn't say they're [TS]

  impenetrable because I i think that [TS]

  those sections were really all that kept [TS]

  me afloat in some of the some of the [TS]

  episodes was the either it in the middle [TS]

  or sometimes at the end they'll have [TS]

  like a very brief you know couple [TS]

  minutes scene where that whatever two [TS]

  characters were most involved in the [TS]

  plot that they they cracked that episode [TS]

  will stand together and talk about it in [TS]

  one of them will explain to the other [TS]

  one exactly what had happened in the [TS]

  episode in case you didn't catch it so I [TS]

  i found yes there were definitely some [TS]

  impenetrable parts where they're just [TS]

  talking about you know this block and in [TS]

  that mafia and it and there's just a lot [TS]

  of convoluted nonsense columbia mafia [TS]

  five is attacking off yeah but i but I [TS]

  appreciated those those parts because [TS]

  without that I really wouldn't have [TS]

  known why they were doing anything and [TS]

  in you know in this case I I knew why [TS]

  they were doing like 68% it's not artful [TS]

  storytelling because there are a lot of [TS]

  some things they discuss are important [TS]

  and some things aren't and in the time [TS]

  that you're hearing you don't know which [TS]

  ones are important which ones are which [TS]

  is going to be a major group that will [TS]

  be an actor throughout this entire [TS]

  television series and which I might [TS]

  never going to hear about again and [TS]

  they're all equal they all seem equally [TS]

  nothing and it's not our full story [TS]

  telling in the same way the George Lucas [TS]

  having people sit down couches and talk [TS]

  to each other isn't it's like show me [TS]

  don't tell like it is the is the laziest [TS]

  way but they only have 30 minutes like [TS]

  the format dictates that they want to [TS]

  have these set-pieces they want to have [TS]

  these events happen [TS]

  they got to get a bunch of story and [TS]

  really fast and so they have people talk [TS]

  to each other without moving the mouse [TS]

  real quickly and then move on and the [TS]

  ending part explaining like in the end [TS]

  blah blah blah blah they're really good [TS]

  it is very sort of american television [TS]

  series like it was a few darn kids kind [TS]

  of exposition and that is much less [TS]

  artful than the movie but it has that I [TS]

  feel like it has that comfort food [TS]

  familiarity of again the a-team or is [TS]

  that Miami Vice ride like a sort of [TS]

  ensemble crime-solving interesting [TS]

  television series that is comfortable to [TS]

  just watch one of these 30-minute [TS]

  episodes especially the standalone ones [TS]

  yeah it's routine it's very procedural [TS]

  yeah you know yep but then sometimes [TS]

  sometimes you get touchy comas [TS]

  yeah I didn't I did not actually care [TS]

  for the magic almost that much don't [TS]

  know when you over at least favorite [TS]

  episode with like the tattoo comas day [TS]

  out so that one I was like no i don't [TS]

  have done with you talking tanks why [TS]

  isn't anyone picking up on how much [TS]

  trouble guys are [TS]

  hey I see this you should try the if you [TS]

  haven't seen the other seasons they get [TS]

  they do get progressively worse i have [TS]

  to admit first season i think is the [TS]

  best the second one is is ok but it's [TS]

  kind of derivative and by the time [TS]

  you're into solid state society is a [TS]

  little bit of a mess and then not by [TS]

  understand why they're there they're [TS]

  just not there for me so that they not i [TS]

  think that when you were eventually [TS]

  because they do have some value and then [TS]

  finally they do the thing that I love so [TS]

  much they remixed and rebooted it they [TS]

  have the standalone complex arise which [TS]

  is a reimagining of the majors origins [TS]

  with a different animation style [TS]

  I don't like it as much as this the [TS]

  original series but I love seeing them [TS]

  go ahead try to tell that story again to [TS]

  them redesign the character but have it [TS]

  be the same character it's like a you [TS]

  know what alternate universe i guess the [TS]

  whole yeah Jason tell us about the [TS]

  spider vs the different spider-man like [TS]

  the same type of thing you're spider-man [TS]

  but you're not Peter Parker you are the [TS]

  major but you look a little bit [TS]

  different and you have an entirely [TS]

  different like how can just keep telling [TS]

  that story it's like legend of zelda [TS]

  this you know there's a new link it's [TS]

  the link but no and that's that's [TS]

  another thing that's kind of comment to [TS]

  and amazed that they don't shy away from [TS]

  sort of what we would call the alternate [TS]

  universe type stuff you know they'll [TS]

  just they'll just do it if they've got [TS]

  an idea so you know it doesn't have to [TS]

  exist in the realm of fanfic like four [TS]

  most cartoons in the United States so I [TS]

  always always found that fascinating to [TS]

  be able to just watch a different [TS]

  version of the same thing that I just [TS]

  saw that's mean I think arises like [TS]

  three episodes are 62 really short and [TS]

  you can watch it and I it's very [TS]

  instructive think about in which ways [TS]

  this is not successful at the movement [TS]

  and tell me stories were like because [TS]

  they do so many things very well but so [TS]

  many other things like all you missed it [TS]

  that's not that the you did you didn't [TS]

  get the major that I love and you didn't [TS]

  make a new major that I love you just [TS]

  kind of have major window dressing [TS]

  but you have really interesting [TS]

  character designs and like you know it [TS]

  I just like seeing people take a [TS]

  multiple goes at the same story in the [TS]

  same characters two different styles [TS]

  different directors different writers [TS]

  and see if they can find another angle [TS]

  on it and in the way that I imagine [TS]

  people like the spider of our stuff [TS]

  where if you like spider-man you'll take [TS]

  him anyway and get him [TS]

  yeah yeah you don't hold too sacred [TS]

  Peter Parker you'll say I like the [TS]

  spider-man 2 in fact maybe I like the [TS]

  spider-man better than the quote-unquote [TS]

  real spider-man all the spiders crappy [TS]

  forget about that spider-man like [TS]

  spider-man that was all black / but this [TS]

  one you know what was that guy called [TS]

  venom [TS]

  I don't know integer and you Jason can [TS]

  explain that no I think I i love the [TS]

  that's that yellow remix other ways of [TS]

  tell of looking at a story is that can [TS]

  be a lot of fun and I when we talk about [TS]

  comic books on the show I mean that's [TS]

  one of the things that comes up is that [TS]

  the weight of continuity and saying well [TS]

  you know we already said it was like [TS]

  this versus telling stories that might [TS]

  be a little bit different but good [TS]

  stories and and so you know taking an [TS]

  meet premise and doing something [TS]

  different with it and spinning in a [TS]

  different way you know give it a try [TS]

  might be good might not be but it might [TS]

  be i was reminded in arise there's a [TS]

  character where they use new to the [TS]

  community and skimpy clothing in a [TS]

  totally different way in the more [TS]

  traditional anime way every time you see [TS]

  it you're like seriously seriously this [TS]

  is her outfit but it's just it's so [TS]

  over-the-top and there is no thematic [TS]

  support for it and is not done with a [TS]

  higher purpose it is more embarrassing [TS]

  than the majors office season one it's [TS]

  like how to sneak into the show like how [TS]

  do these people get permission to redo [TS]

  ghost in the shell do they didn't [TS]

  understand what this character in series [TS]

  about a [TS]

  certainly not are there any touching [TS]

  comas I i think there are getting [TS]

  questions did you did you did you see [TS]

  your eyes anybody Tony no I did not I [TS]

  did not feel it all straight on I think [TS]

  it's enough to think so maybe I'll just [TS]

  as I think it's only like three episodes [TS]

  is really really short and someone in [TS]

  the chatroom said it was for one hour [TS]

  episodes I think so yeah I think they [TS]

  were talking comas it all kind of blends [TS]

  together in a giant going to shell [TS]

  Stewart a certain point the only put the [TS]

  only part of of any of it through the [TS]

  movie or the TV show that actually like [TS]

  really really got to me emotionally [TS]

  enough to make me cry and i'm not going [TS]

  to say what was because it comes kind of [TS]

  late was tachikoma related and I yeah I [TS]

  was weepy so yep big fan that it didn t [TS]

  you guys watch the dubs of like the [TS]

  movie or television series the Cubs are [TS]

  just awful on this which is a shame [TS]

  there were a couple of times when i [TS]

  accidentally clicked them the mouse but [TS]

  I didn't realize it when the mouse was [TS]

  like over my VLC player and it switched [TS]

  over to the dumbing briefly kind of like [TS]

  a half what's happening you don't make [TS]

  it stop it is not good and not just the [TS]

  voices don't match but that I think [TS]

  they're not good voice actors and I know [TS]

  we can and we've said this before John [TS]

  you can't I can't judge how good the [TS]

  actors are in Japanese like but i can i [TS]

  can judge that they are molding in some [TS]

  way like they're not mechanically [TS]

  reading lines and and characterization [TS]

  why's that the main characterization [TS]

  thing that drives me nuts is when a [TS]

  character does not have a perky feminine [TS]

  voice in the japanese one and they give [TS]

  her perky them in feminine voice in the [TS]

  american one or at least perkier or more [TS]

  feminine it's like or same thing with [TS]

  the men if a man is gruff and just never [TS]

  has an expression and in american money [TS]

  sounds like that Brannigan take no [TS]

  that's not that's not the character you [TS]

  could be saying piglatin it doesn't [TS]

  matter you're doing it wrong [TS]

  you don't sound like the person and [TS]

  that's that that's the worst sinners [TS]

  like my bebop of all the dubs that I've [TS]

  seen probably commit those sins but it [TS]

  is watchable least but the this i cannot [TS]

  i can't watch the way I haven't had to [TS]

  watch the double this time thing ever [TS]

  because i'm not showing it to my kids [TS]

  that's the reason why it's not good i [TS]

  saw i saw the first [TS]

  whatever first part of the movie first [TS]

  20 minutes or so in that and then I [TS]

  realized I need to not watch that [TS]

  anymore because it was awful [TS]

  yeah and the good thing is they don't do [TS]

  a lot of talking suffering the [TS]

  expedition section so you can have a lot [TS]

  of talking Maribel and you don't have [TS]

  the city tonight look at you just read [TS]

  the subtitles you don't look at the [TS]

  people sitting on the couch is driving [TS]

  the cars [TS]

  who yep relief it's like a comic book [TS]

  that talks to you in a language you [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  thanks Tony you're welcome you make me [TS]

  it makes me like it that much more [TS]

  that's what I'm here for I the sound of [TS]

  of Japanese is just I find it incredibly [TS]

  soothing now just because of so many [TS]

  hours watching anime when I was in [TS]

  college so it's it feels completely [TS]

  wrong to see this style even things that [TS]

  are made in the United States in sort of [TS]

  an anime style of animation that has jar [TS]

  had the Japanese language associated [TS]

  with them i have trouble watching that [TS]

  because it feels it just seems wrong [TS]

  yeah it did the way a visit the couple [TS]

  of tropes of the way japanese characters [TS]

  speak like the big bad speak slowly and [TS]

  a sort of measured monotone tighten in [TS]

  Japanese and when i do man American he [TS]

  sounds like maniacal or like Vincent [TS]

  Price and it's like that you didn't even [TS]

  catch the spirit of like that I get [TS]

  somehow i give the the Japanese tropes a [TS]

  pass because their novel in some way to [TS]

  me i like hearing the big bad talking [TS]

  that kind of way and I don't accept in [TS]

  the u.s. blond cell [TS]

  yeah it does it does sort of become [TS]

  soothing and exotic and like this [TS]

  singsong nonsense that you understand [TS]

  every 17th word that of but uh huh [TS]

  it's much nicer than the American people [TS]

  sounding like they're from a GI Joe [TS]

  Carter they just went right over to the [TS]

  sound booth and recorded the dub for [TS]

  this series [TS]

  all right I think we've reached the end [TS]

  John you can continue to ponder on your [TS]

  own what your going to assign next i [TS]

  will be doing remedial reading write [TS]

  your name on the board in Japanese but [TS]

  you still have time for Jason so you [TS]

  know you still have to turn in the late [TS]

  evening complete this is yeah then [TS]

  that'll turn into an outtake in summer [TS]

  school [TS]

  yeah I think you've got six months to [TS]

  submit over here and get a free transfer [TS]

  permanent record Jason alright well [TS]

  until we meet again for another meeting [TS]

  of John Syracuse's and [TS]

  one of three perhaps I want to thank my [TS]

  guests Tony sindelar thank you for being [TS]

  here anytime and Erica and sign thank [TS]

  you for watching over things that I [TS]

  didn't watch and some of the that it was [TS]

  it was an incredible math is what it was [TS]

  and John thanks for selecting these [TS]

  things i'm sorry didn't watch it all but [TS]

  i did i did actually like I got a second [TS]

  wind and really get started getting into [TS]

  it in the end starting with the series [TS]

  so I i think im gonna good i'm going in [TS]

  a good direction i think you turned me [TS]

  around i give you an e for effort cases [TS]

  but everyone else in the class gets an A [TS]

  yeah whoo will regret only fair and [TS]

  thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

  listening you are our auditors you do [TS]

  not get a letter grade but you hopefully [TS]

  your mind has been expanded and next [TS]

  time sign up for your own course [TS]

  look in the course catalog for professor [TS]

  Syracuse's anime one of not accredited [TS]

  no not another university for the [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast i have been Jason [TS]

  goodbye [TS]