The Accidental Tech Podcast

99: Pop-Up Headlights


  So I should start the show by pointing out that it is fourteen degrees outside here in the place that does not have [TS]

  winter. Are you still stuck on this right here let slip my my throat is reading thirteen point eight. [TS]

  So we are clearly colder the new we have winter you don't. [TS]

  I'm twelve here get His know those two cents of those two point two degrees man. There killer.. [TS]

  Right now that I got that out of the way. Do you understand follow up what we do. Let's talk about FS L. [TS]

  So we have a couple of more pieces of interesting news flash feedback with regard to whether [TS]

  or not you really need a cell for just plain old websites that don't really do anything interactive David Walken wrote [TS]

  in and said regarding us to sell everywhere. [TS]

  Mostly just Nephi on this is a demand for decently sized charter school in California [TS]

  and I can tell you from experience that H.T.T.P. S. [TS]

  Wreaks havoc with the constant filters that we are required to have in place. I love the idea of cheap or free S.S.L. [TS]

  Certs and more security in general but it's also going to make my life miserable. [TS]

  Trying to keep students from doing content that they shouldn't. [TS]

  And that's kind of unfortunate that schools have to filter everything but I totally understand it. [TS]

  And that's actually an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. [TS]

  Now that it's going to the same thing that discussed last week to force everyone to have a certificate to manage [TS]

  military and everybody else on the school's Internet and. You know what happens in corporate settings. [TS]

  It happens in schools all the time and as we learned from many other people had the same back [TS]

  and in attach a name to it in the notes because so many people sent it. [TS]

  They were showing examples of Go-Go's in-flight Internet. [TS]

  Issuing its own certificate so that it can men in the middle you. [TS]

  Because once your browser trudges trusted certificate it acts as an S.S.L. [TS]

  Proxy decrypts everything see there are all the traffic that goes through and who knows what else it does. [TS]

  So this is definitely a thing it happens in all sorts of places it happens on plain wife I happens in academic settings [TS]

  happens in corporate settings. Yeah but the wonders of S.S.L. Is not the fault of a cell but it's like. [TS]

  People want to see your data. And if you try to use the cell to stop them from seeing your data. [TS]

  If you wander into an environment where they say No really. We need to see your data. They'll see your data. Yep. [TS]

  Well and I think this is one of those cases where like. [TS]

  You know you can't have it both ways if you want to have complete control over what gets viewed over your network [TS]

  and you want to spy on people or filter it. Unique control over those devices. [TS]

  So that you can do things like install your own certificates. You know via I.T. Policy and you know group installation. [TS]

  Methods stuff like that where you know you can have a coffee shop and B. [TS]

  and Say are you can take your laptop in here whatever you want browsing whatever you want. [TS]

  And then be spying on that without their knowledge you know that's that's no good. [TS]

  So I think this is actually of a perfectly fine balance I don't think we're going to cause trouble for schools [TS]

  everywhere. To a degree that it's work not doing it. [TS]

  Yeah I mean and like the GO thing is doing schools could do something similar if you're basically you try to foist. [TS]

  The certificate on the people who are on your net we're going to look if you want to be on our network. [TS]

  The prices you have to use a civic and trust and so we can feel your content. [TS]

  I'm not quite sure what the state of filtering in an academic setting is the that I understand why it would be a thing [TS]

  that people want to do but it seems to me that it's. [TS]

  Basically impossible to stop what they're trying to stop as students are seeing things inappropriate [TS]

  and what students trying to do is see an appropriate things. And if the students are one hundred percent going to win. [TS]

  Yep like you cannot stop them. Right but I understand that it's like well just because we can't stop them. [TS]

  Doesn't mean we shouldn't try because not trying so I don't know I don't know what the correct solution there is [TS]

  but technically speaking as one of those situations where you're not going to win. Well plus. [TS]

  I mean not to get too creepy about it but like I think. [TS]

  By the time a lot of kids are old enough to start seeking out bad things on the Internet. [TS]

  There's a pretty good chance these days they probably have their own smartphone. With a data plan. [TS]

  Yep and Verizon all it's doing is tracking the putting in a tracker and all there is if you're. [TS]

  It's funny guys bring up schools. Again because when Aaron first started teaching. [TS]

  She wanted to be able to do something simple like look at G. Mail. When she was it working at the time it was filtered. [TS]

  And I think when she had left at the end of this past school year. [TS]

  Teachers were afforded more privileges than the students were. [TS]

  But when she first started that was in the case [TS]

  and so I vividly remember getting into a like several months long game of chicken. [TS]

  Where I set up I think was like a Sox proxy on a little Linux server I had at the house. [TS]

  And she was using after a while in the neck up locked and so then I moved the socks proxy [TS]

  or whatever it was it doesn't really matter I move the proxy. [TS]

  On See you like a standard port number like twenty five [TS]

  or something like that of my time in the exchange port number whatever that was. [TS]

  But then that eventually got blocked [TS]

  and that was around the time that that they started giving the teachers more privileges. [TS]

  But there were other few other steps that I don't remember in this process [TS]

  but we were definitely playing this like cat and mouse game Ian. [TS]

  Well maybe it wasn't just me because I think her students were doing it too to John's point. [TS]

  But the plane is kind mouse game for first several months trying to get Aaron access to not just regular things like G. [TS]

  Mail these weren't nefarious things. But eventually it ended up that the overlords one. [TS]

  And they just allowed the teachers to have a little bit more math. More access. [TS]

  Yeah I mean anyone who's ever worked with one of these content filters and try to get any work done. [TS]

  Has usually aren't a problem like this where like a stance a bully it's a good idea to help keep you working [TS]

  and keep you on track and there are situations where that work somewhere that has been successful [TS]

  but there's also a lot of situations where like the filter is actually keeping people from. [TS]

  Not only doing harmless things like checking their G. Mail every once in awhile a work. [TS]

  But also actually keeping them from doing their jobs properly. [TS]

  Like if you have to be researching things on the internet for as part of your job or looking applying for a paper [TS]

  and some of these A so many sites are blocked and they it's. [TS]

  It's there are so many situations where these content filters are actively harmful to what's trying to get done in the [TS]

  office. That they're trying to protect. Yeah. [TS]

  It's absolutely true and in errands case there were a lot of You Tube videos that she would use during classes. [TS]

  About all sorts of various and different things. Aaron was a high school biology teacher. [TS]

  And she couldn't even do that for the longest time because You Tube was carte blanche filtered entirely. [TS]

  And again you know over time the teachers got more access than she could do this again [TS]

  but your point is absolutely right Marco that. [TS]

  It's not always about nefarious things it's not always about slacking off sometimes it's really justifiable use but [TS]

  when the. The thing that's preventing you access is completely algorithmic and not like curated or whatever. [TS]

  That's what's going to happen. [TS]

  Yeah I mean You Tube is a massive resource for teachers like that cannot be overstated like You Tube is an incredible [TS]

  resource for teachers. And moving on to other follow up. [TS]

  I should sort of kind of apologize to Marco in that I lead you astray. Last episode. [TS]

  With regard to your question about well could I just do my feet polar which will hopefully talk about a little bit [TS]

  later. Could I just do that in C. Sharp and I said when a going after run all by S. [TS]

  and All of a speed and then blah blah blah it's really not worth it [TS]

  and Frank Kruger pointed out some me that I think it's called S.P. Net. [TS]

  The next or something like that that's probably wrong to don't email me. [TS]

  But anyway the upcoming or currently out I guess version of S.P. Down at they actually have. [TS]

  I guess it's binary for all sorts different platforms. And so you wouldn't necessarily need to run the full stack on. [TS]

  You know some D.P.S. Somewhere. And the other thing I didn't consider days you probably wouldn't need I-S. [TS]

  Anyway you can. You could just write a console app that in turn reaches out to the Internet. [TS]

  But if you're calling it locally or. You know via some some end point locally. You may not even need I-S. [TS]

  It all and I know this is kind of irrelevant but for the three. S.P. [TS]

  Dot net developers that are listening my apologies to you for leading Marco astray [TS]

  and Marco should you ever decide to give up on your beloved go feed crawl or sink or whatever guy. [TS]

  Let me know when all such up with some C. Sharp stuff. [TS]

  Not see what you missed your chance this is your one window behind me to learn a new language once a decade [TS]

  and this is this is your one window that you could have gotten me to try a Microsoft language note. [TS]

  Not going to do it I know it's all over. I quit. It's all your fault. Don't think that. [TS]

  I don't think that it was the right answer for you for this particular problem [TS]

  but I stand by that if you ever for some whatever reason. How to chance to really learn C. [TS]

  Sharp I really do you think you'd like it a lot but at this point I honestly don't know why. [TS]

  Why you would try it like leave aside my own allegiances I don't think it makes sense for you at all but anyway. [TS]

  You could have. If I hadn't failed you miserably. And that kind of segues into. You. [TS]

  Why don't you tell us a quick update on your feed poll Are you a tweeted a day or two ago now that you. [TS]

  Deployed to go feed polar this morning whatever that day was a few hours later I was able to confidently reduce the [TS]

  number of overcast V P S's. From thirteen to five. That's incredible. [TS]

  Yep that's right and I think I can even get to go down to four but it be cutting it a little bit closer. [TS]

  Probably not going to do it. But yes so. [TS]

  Last week I believe my status last week was I had written my ten lines of go code so I really didn't have anything [TS]

  going right is that true. That's about right if my. If my memory is correct. [TS]

  So I've been I've been trying it for about a week and I really like it. [TS]

  There's not much more to say I'm using it right now it is it is currently running on overcast it has replaced the [TS]

  P.H.P. Feed crawler So it hasn't replaced all the P.H.P. Feed processing. It has only done like the front end stuff. [TS]

  Of. Now P.H.P. Is no longer making network requests. So it's no longer waiting around for network requests. [TS]

  With all this process of nothing to do whaling around for curls so that is all now on go. Go is now fetching the pages. [TS]

  Every X. Seconds or whatever. And you know depending on certain conditions of hens and subscriber count. [TS]

  Latest error in any way. Fetches fetches all the feeds. And then when it finds a changed feed. [TS]

  It's stuff that feed into Read us. And a veggie P.H.P. Worker processes. Crawl that. [TS]

  So before I said it was two hundred forty. P.H.P. Processes that were doing all the crawling. [TS]

  Now it is one go process and eight P.H.P. Processes. [TS]

  And I probably don't even need those eight but I will see what happens there I bet I can get away with four [TS]

  but I probably just leave it at a just to have some headroom if there's like a bunch of. If there's a burst of updates. [TS]

  And that's roughly it so far. I like the language a lot now if neither of you two have done anything with it right. [TS]

  I have not. Nope. So it does. I mean obviously I am not one to learn new languages frequently. [TS]

  Looking at the landscape today the reason I chose go after after kind of running from note [TS]

  and by the way we heard from a lot of people about node. Trying to fix. Fix my memory leak and. [TS]

  There's a there's a bunch of nuance to how you call set Timeout. [TS]

  And what variables are in scope and whether you use a closure. [TS]

  Around it or named function [TS]

  or what you know what we're at whether you respond to a variable to all these little nuances. [TS]

  I have no doubt that the right person could look at this code and fix it for me. But as I said last week. [TS]

  You know no does it just doesn't fit me as well as as something I really want to want to invest a lot of time into it [TS]

  is not good enough it for me and in other ways besides this way so I lost interest in trying to fix this problem. [TS]

  Thank you know people I appreciate the week of your support. But please stop even when he correction. [TS]

  Because I've already stopped using the language. I'm sure it's fine for you or Merlin but that's it. [TS]

  Looking at everything else was available. I consider other things like you know Java Python. [TS]

  I was going to do a speed internet until case you talked me out of it last week. It's not really true. [TS]

  No not if I was it was never under consideration. It might become in the future you know Microsoft. [TS]

  There clearly investing very heavily in debt tools [TS]

  and trying to reach out to developers who are not right now Microsoft platforms I'm curious to see what they do in in [TS]

  those areas. [TS]

  Because one thing that almost all these languages lack is a really nice idea for MAC and or for anything really. [TS]

  I'm not entirely sure eclipse qualifies for that statement. No I've never used it. [TS]

  But from what I've seen of other people using it it has never been in a never appeared as though I want to use it.. [TS]

  He said Nokia that roughly X. [TS]

  I haven't used it in years so I'm admittedly talking a little bit out of turn but any exposure. [TS]

  I've had to it in any exposure. I've had to it by way of other people talking about it. [TS]

  I cannot remember a time anyone said anything positive about Eclipse. So anyway. [TS]

  I would like to have a nice ID You know like I have one for X. Code for my native applications. [TS]

  I've never had one for web apps I have everywhere I have ever written has been written in like a text editor either vi [TS]

  a first or Text Mate later. So I've never had a nice tidy with like code completion and. And you know. Inline error. [TS]

  Description The never and never had that I would love that. Never had that. Never had the luxury of a real debugger. [TS]

  Wall writing web apps. That would also be nice. Never had it. [TS]

  And with all the new languages that I'm that I've been playing with her that I've been investigating. [TS]

  Almost none of them offer that in a reasonable way. [TS]

  So all that being said I might consider Microsoft off in the future depending on the direction they go with their tools. [TS]

  But right now it is not an owners that aeration. I looked at rust. And I looked at go and I read up I didn't. [TS]

  I didn't actually try writing any code in rust so you know that's a giant. Disclaimer at the beginning. [TS]

  I looked at both of those the. [TS]

  Those seem like the two that everyone said Orde with the third option of Python where everyone says heater do isn't [TS]

  part blankets go to this. Or do it in rust or go. [TS]

  There's a lot of debate between Rush people and go people about which one is better. [TS]

  And a few people have have tried both and have given given more useful opinions. [TS]

  Not a lot of written about it I haven't found a whole lot of posts about those. [TS]

  I think rust in the long term will probably be more common. [TS]

  It certainly has a long way to go it's still very much a beta [TS]

  and it shows in a lot of the documentation in the tools and everything it's not. [TS]

  It will clearly be a lot better in the future. But rust also seems very much. Very close to swift and C. [TS]

  Plus plus style of language preferences which really is not my style. [TS]

  It might become my style later on but it currently isn't just a whole like rusty. [TS]

  It just seemed like it added a quite a lot of complexity that I that conflicted with what I actually wanted. [TS]

  There are a lot of things about of I like. [TS]

  I like the idea of the mutability being part of the language that's of that's a big one. I really. I would love that. [TS]

  And I like some of the type tricks you can do. Most of them I wouldn't need. Go is a lot more basic. [TS]

  It's a lot smaller of a language. And not to say two hundred danced. But the. [TS]

  The things the language will do for you are much more limited. Most of the time. [TS]

  I fall on the side of the way they did it is one of the reason the chose to move forward with that language. [TS]

  Anyway so far. It is really nice. There's. There are parts about it that are weird. It is not like a clear. [TS]

  Oh my God this is perfect for every language. I can already tell. [TS]

  I'm probably not going to want to be writing the whole but appen this. [TS]

  If I was writing a new web app from scratch I would consider it. But it is. [TS]

  I don't think there's any reason for me to rewrite the whole overcast what happened go. You know just. [TS]

  I think I think it's a way for me to get rid of these hot spots. And it's about it. [TS]

  But there's Or it's a there's a lot to like there I really like it I'm glad I'm trying it. [TS]

  And I'm going to keep going with it where it makes sense to. [TS]

  So did you use a go routines and channels and everything for your. Yep. For your. [TS]

  You know what he called sort of a vent Looper placement type thing. Yeah. It's entirely their routines and channels. [TS]

  That's good I was best talking about like what the kind of event libraries where you go I knew they had some weird [TS]

  concurrency thing but I can remember what it was off the top my head. But that's. I mean for a small language. [TS]

  It's kind of a hog that was not odd but like it's this expresses the philosophy of go blind small. [TS]

  It's kind of like see it done better [TS]

  but they determined that that concerns the stuff was important enough to actually add to a language that otherwise [TS]

  being kept very small not says a lot about sort of the intended use of the language. [TS]

  And why I think it's probably a good fit for you know Google doing server side stuff and for you doing the polar. [TS]

  Yeah exactly. I mean. I love the concurrency stuff. [TS]

  Somebody I stated earlier this is genius somebody else somebody point actually a number he pointed out on Twitter [TS]

  earlier that this is not at all new. It's called Is it C.S.P. [TS]

  Concurrent sequential processes I think some way that it's a concurrency model to go uses communicating sequential [TS]

  processes that to thank you. Mitchy in the chat. So to me I like this model a lot it is not perfect. [TS]

  It seems more complicated. Once you get into Iraq as though this is actually really nice. [TS]

  There's a lot of concurrency baggage the usually have to worry about like walking [TS]

  and threading that you just don't need to really worry about. If you. If you do it the way you're supposed to do it. [TS]

  And it's really it's. It's easy to do things like earlier. I added. You know. [TS]

  And I for ever since the very beginning I had a limit on how many crawls can be running in parallel at any one time [TS]

  and that's very easy to do with channels. [TS]

  Just you know earlier tonight I added a second limit to how many per per host you can be running at once why don't have [TS]

  because earlier I crawled like all the feeds to a couple of big hosts [TS]

  and got blocked immediately like two thousand connections open one looked at it. So that one out the window. [TS]

  But that was really easy to add to like just. It's this quick little you know. [TS]

  Make make a channel for every host and here's an array of channels and. [TS]

  When he started push one onto it and when you and pop one off of it and here's the buffalo and that's it like it's. [TS]

  It's really for doing stuff like that this. This concurrency model is really nice. It. [TS]

  It is and what I like about it is that it is very new it is unlike any concurrency models I've worked with in the past. [TS]

  And so it is intellectually stimulating it is educational. And for this task it's really good. So you seem pleased. [TS]

  Overall yeah I mean other said. [TS]

  It is it is it does have weirdnesses to it like there are certain things about it I'm just like really. [TS]

  That like that's what I have to do or you don't support that. [TS]

  But you know the part of this is just me and the use of language. [TS]

  Ask me again in six months how it feels like his language. All right. [TS]

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  Thanks a lot to Casper for sponsoring our show once again. So. Marketed anything happen this week. [TS]

  Note that we really not talking about it because we don't have to we talk about it if you want to mean I don't know [TS]

  that much more to say on it as so I wrote this blog post called Apple has lost a functional high ground. [TS]

  A title I'm regretting. Because I actually of all the complaints people had about the piece. [TS]

  I think the title was was probably the least valid complaint about it [TS]

  but I don't think the title was that far off the truth. [TS]

  Can you explain the title to me because that was the part that I was most confused on your post. [TS]

  So the title was you know the Apple has lost the functional high ground so this is a play on the concept of the moral [TS]

  high ground. I don't explain I do I know you don't display in the functional I got. So Apple stuff. [TS]

  You know it used to be that Apple stuff. Generally by a pretty long shot worked better than P.C. Slash Android. [TS]

  Slash other alternatives. You know people through on their. [TS]

  The phrase it just works as an article that was never one hundred percent true. But it was generally true it was. [TS]

  It was the general advantage that Apple's stuff had over their competitors that. It was just work better. [TS]

  The vast majority of the time. Certain things were more reliable. Simpler more robust cetera and. [TS]

  So this gave this gave Apple this. [TS]

  What I consider of the functional high ground in the past of like Apple stuff just work better and. [TS]

  And it worked so well that I think you could not necessarily hold it over P.C. People but the you knew. [TS]

  When you were using an Apple product like. Yeah I got a good one here. [TS]

  I got the thing that works best in this industry. [TS]

  I think they're there quality problems over the last few years [TS]

  when taken together have ruined this image for to a degree [TS]

  and so I don't necessarily mean that someone else has become better. [TS]

  And that's that's an argument Gruber has are going to fewer people brought up. I think you can lose. [TS]

  Like if you know what the moral high ground. I think you can lose the moral high ground. [TS]

  Even if no one else takes it from you like losing the moral high ground is like you used to be. [TS]

  You know really good morally you have a really good image or have earlier petition and you don't anymore. [TS]

  And so [TS]

  when I said losing the functional high ground what I meant was in that sense of like they used to have a greater petition [TS]

  for this. And now they don't. So I think in that way I think the title was actually pretty fair. [TS]

  What do you think I would have used the word functional. [TS]

  Because I think I was was throwing me now hearing your explanation I think my conception of it kept focusing more on [TS]

  the definition of functional maybe I would go with like reliability is not really over go on for it but anyway. [TS]

  I probably would have made a high ground knowledge title [TS]

  but down to do you explain that I understand what you're getting at that we can go on to the explaining the body of [TS]

  your thing because I think. I cut you off with the title part. [TS]

  Well but no that wasn't that was important because a lot of people argued about the title. [TS]

  And I do think the title was not really the bad part. You know that the part that I regret. [TS]

  Was the overall I'd maybe sensational maybe alarmist I don't know how to say it. So. So the post was basically saying. [TS]

  Apple stuff doesn't work very well anymore. I think the problem is the problem. [TS]

  You know I saw their hardware quality is fantastic recently with their software quality is really not. [TS]

  And every July I said it's taken a nosedive. That was. That's the word I regret the most because that. [TS]

  That kind of that that suggests the wrong. Excel or ation rate or trajectory of of the decline. Like. [TS]

  I think Apple software is on a steady decline. [TS]

  And it's been going that way for a while a nosedive is like a sudden drop. [TS]

  You know precariously you know perceptively whatever the right word of a sudden rapidly tolerating drop. [TS]

  I don't think that is what's happening. I think it's been a slow decline. [TS]

  And there's no signs of a turning around really definitely is a slow decline of their software quality [TS]

  and part of it is services quality worked in with that [TS]

  but I allot of it really just the software itself at the local software running on the on the on the machines which is [TS]

  really unfortunate. And so you know a few of the words like I said. I said riddled with bugs. [TS]

  I don't think it's riddled with bugs. It has bugs you know. [TS]

  There are certain words that are more severe than the need to be. [TS]

  But overall I stand by the the message that I was saying which is this stuff is not working as well as it used to it [TS]

  you know. Now we need to be very cautious when we install updates. [TS]

  And the fact is it used to be better and that worries me. My theory is that marketing priorities and again. [TS]

  It's important to point out the a fine distinction here. Not the marketing department. [TS]

  As some sites quoted as which I never said. Marketing priorities. At Apple. Seem to be dictating that the software. [TS]

  Must keep pace with the annual hardware releases. Or that there must be an annual software release. [TS]

  That has marketing value that helps the product with with cross marketing between different you know between the max [TS]

  and the i Phones [TS]

  and new i Phones come out of also all these new all these new software he believes that go along with brand new i OS X. [TS]

  and That was X. Meaning like energy or not not mispronouncing ten. With zero S. Ten. Anyway. [TS]

  My my opinion is that Apple quality has gone downhill in the last few years. [TS]

  And they should they shouldn't be keeping up with this. [TS]

  Like artificial and you will release schedule for major O.S.'s because that is just not. [TS]

  It's not producing good quality software you know it used to be like the. The ten point. X. Point zero. Releases. [TS]

  Although we have to like you know ten point X. Point three or four were sometimes on stable or at least had some bugs. [TS]

  Usually by the time you got to like ten point six point four five. [TS]

  It was pretty rock solid you could pretty much depend on it [TS]

  and then you know they were with some of the previous releases they would get all the way up to like you know Ted point [TS]

  X. Point seven eight or nine. [TS]

  Because they were just around for longer [TS]

  and so by the time like so there'd be a couple of months of instability at the beginning of a new US release. [TS]

  But then a few months in like you were fine and. [TS]

  It was rock stable fight the next eighteen months before there was really a new one. [TS]

  And now it seems like we're always using a one point zero or one point one. [TS]

  Like every release that we're using from Apple because they're the major of nature moving so quickly [TS]

  and get so many changes and each one. It's like. It's not like we're always using a beta. But it's close. It's. [TS]

  It's like we're always using a point zero or zero point one and. [TS]

  You feel that in a lot of ways [TS]

  and one of the errors I made was I didn't actually list any of those ways in this post but it's. [TS]

  It's almost there's too many to list. Glenn Pfeiffer murder really article today. [TS]

  He actually solicited people from Twitter that you know. Tell him like make me. [TS]

  Make me a list tell me all of things that are common problems for everybody. [TS]

  And he puts it a good thing I'll put in the show notes and. It's hard. [TS]

  There isn't like a one thing you know if somebody. If somebody asked me like a what. [TS]

  What one thing he's working on or you know one thing. Needs to be improved here. [TS]

  There is no one thing there are a million. Tiny things. [TS]

  And a few big things that just don't work very well or have bugs sometimes and. [TS]

  I don't you can't tell it's hard to tell if Apple. Think this is a problem. [TS]

  Or if they think the course they're on is OK. I remember when I talked about first of all. And I say. [TS]

  This is a bit interesting demonstration there's between pod casting and blocking. [TS]

  Because we have all three of us talked about all these things for like what is it over a year now I can see you know it [TS]

  is not as if this is a sudden realization the market woke up one day and said My God I mean. [TS]

  But when Mark says it on the podcast or with him progress nobody here that boat gets written down [TS]

  and you know it's part of his just like luck of the draw of like having to catch on and go viral or whatever [TS]

  but it is interesting to me that like if someone as a regular listener to the show [TS]

  and reads that blog post to be like Yeah I've heard Marcus said a million times. [TS]

  And so it's not it's not like a revelation but then suddenly you know I think that's that's a thing. [TS]

  I wasn't saying anything that I thought was particularly noteworthy like or original. [TS]

  It was almost like like those kind of things like this goes two ways both of us do this day and. Well. [TS]

  Back when I used to blog in cases like two ways where sometimes you know write something up on your site. [TS]

  And then you'll talk about it on the podcast [TS]

  and sometimes we'll talk about something on the podcast then after the body guess you'll sort of write up a centrally a [TS]

  more coherent summary of what was discussed in this. [TS]

  Definitely felt like you know after talking about this for weeks or months [TS]

  or whatever you call it was time for a blog post about it and you more [TS]

  or less summarize all of things that you'd said on on past August or whatever [TS]

  and I just felt like that thing you do where like. [TS]

  Sometimes it comes or is in the pocket some kind sourcing of like well talk about the matter stuff later [TS]

  but I just I just thought that was interesting. And speaking of podcasts. [TS]

  One of the things that people read that reminded me that existed because I'm old Never again I was hyper critical I was [TS]

  a fifty five. [TS]

  Region of pain which was back around the mountain lion talking about a mountain lion and maybe at the announcement [TS]

  or talking about him or view. The title comes from the idea that. [TS]

  Marco just articulated which is with yearly releases of my. [TS]

  What my word on that show was is the always going to have enough time to mature because the point I was there always [TS]

  crap. Right and then. Point one point two is like it takes a while to settle down. Right. [TS]

  And if you're going to happen. They're going to happen every year. It does do yearly releases. Give the O.-S. [TS]

  Enough time to settle down or are we always going to be in what I call the region of pain because it's always crap [TS]

  when THE POINT all comes out like no matter how long they hold it like you just you know it's. [TS]

  And is always some instability. Sometimes long sometimes short. That was in two thousand and twelve. [TS]

  The beginning of two thousand and twelve. At this point. I would say that we know for zero S. Ten. That the O. S. [TS]

  Does get out of the region of pain because we do reach the point four point five. [TS]

  But what Marco's thing was talking about is. All right we exit the region of pain. [TS]

  How long do we get in the nice part before it's not like they're run into each other it's not like it just bugs [TS]

  or not because Mavericks was not just like a total disaster right before you know seventy came out at least for most [TS]

  people I mean there are exceptions people that rise since I know this feature X. Never worked on Mavericks or my G.P. [TS]

  Always kernel back on Mavericks or whatever like. [TS]

  That is true and that has always happened and that's unfortunate but for most people like Mavericks had settled down. [TS]

  But how long did you get with the sell down Mavericks was it was it the majority of the year. Definitely not right. [TS]

  Was it. Less than half a year with a one month to month right. And that I think. When I'm looking at this. [TS]

  You know we've talked all the things before. The the change for Teague. [TS]

  Not just the bugs we take the bug to going but also the change for T. As in even if everything works perfectly. [TS]

  I don't know if I'm ready for everything to change how it works again like not everything [TS]

  but you know people who don't want to tie a change like the change for to combine with the sure. [TS]

  Very short periods of role of stability and calm. [TS]

  That I think more than like the quality of the software [TS]

  or any kind of metric you could put on it like number above Exe. [TS]

  In the point releases or number of bugs enough on releases or severity of bugs or anything like that. [TS]

  I think that more than anything. Characterizes the dissatisfaction I've heard from a lot of people about. [TS]

  Apple is that. Especially on the Mac. I want to talk about Iowa separate but the mac. [TS]

  Is different because on the mac I think the third thing that comes into the into this equation of change are to ignite [TS]

  a long time [TS]

  and at appears to belittle also the final question is Who are you chasing Who are you chasing with the Yearly Kos ten [TS]

  updates like why you feel like. All right. Android Samsung. You've got people bring down your neck. [TS]

  It's an exploding market. It's super competitive. [TS]

  You've got to do what you got to do [TS]

  and that's that's the marketing parties that are there was talking about it for the macro it's like yearly releases. [TS]

  If you can pull it off. [TS]

  Fine I think they prove they can pull off we can make yearly releases each ones have interesting features they [TS]

  eventually settle down to civility like they can do it. But the cost is like a lease half the year. [TS]

  You're dealing with like a baby O. S. [TS]

  That has a bunch of bugs then you get a period stability and as soon as everything's OK. [TS]

  Here comes the new one and like they can do it they can get them out on time. [TS]

  They're not they're not like I was tied to hardware like they just basically well you know Sammy's not ready we're to [TS]

  shut that later like it's not like there's a yearly update of Macs of the trying to sync with you know so it's not it's [TS]

  not exactly tied to that it's just that like. It's almost like a corporate stunts like not. Not like a you know. [TS]

  Stunt like sort of like saying. [TS]

  Our organization is so well we can revise in release yearly updates to a massive you know consumer operating system. [TS]

  Yes you can. And you can get it done. And during the course of its life it will settle down to stability. [TS]

  But it still may be too much like it still may be like why why do you think we need a new one of these every single [TS]

  year. We would prefer to have an entire year of boringness instead of four months of boring us. [TS]

  Yeah I agree [TS]

  and I wrote a small kind of response post to Marco's post which is mostly irrelevant except that a few people emailed [TS]

  me and one of them said. [TS]

  And I don't have the amount from me something on lines of Well it's really the yearly thing that's the problem. [TS]

  Or is it that there's so much stuff in each release new stuff. [TS]

  In each release and I think that's a fair point that you could argue that you could. You could just put less. [TS]

  In each of these releases but potentially keep this super aggressive yearly cycle but I don't just seems to me that. [TS]

  That's not really the choice that Apple would make is just have like one marquee feature in the rest of the new S.P. [TS]

  Otherwise on remarkable. And the other thing I'd like to point out is friend of the show Ben Thompson in the chat says. [TS]

  The problem is that Apple needs to be rate faster on the cloud stuff and slower on the software [TS]

  but by keeping them all linked together they're making both worst cloud is still too slow software is now too fast [TS]

  and I think that's a really steep oint that we really could use a lot of help on the Services side although again we [TS]

  definitely need some help on the desktop side as well. And just keeping keeping the desktop. [TS]

  And the and the mobile operating systems inextricably linked like Apple is it just seems. [TS]

  It seems like it's kind of tough to keep everything moving. Effectively that way. [TS]

  Now what I'd be curious to hear you guys is take on is a lot of people said well. [TS]

  They OK let's assume that Apple says well the hell with yearly releases. [TS]

  What happens for things like continuity that really are integrating. Both the desktop and the end I.O.'s. [TS]

  Wouldn't she want them to happen simultaneously Now the comedy of this question is that I believe pieces of continuity [TS]

  did not happen simultaneously in there ARE point releases to Yosemite to enable it but I don't like. [TS]

  Doesn't it kind of make sense to have everything packaged together at the same moment in time. [TS]

  Well for certain things yes but. Hey I don't think those things should really come up every year as you know. [TS]

  Big things that require this massive cordon ation between all the O S's I don't think should [TS]

  or will come of every year and be. You have to ask. At what cost. So you know. [TS]

  Would you drive a car that had really great features added to it every day but occasionally explode like. [TS]

  There's certain things that just like are not worth it you know and what. What I think has has really shaken. [TS]

  A lot of my faith and Apple software quality recently. Is is not like oh this button looks weird. [TS]

  Every so often it's like basic stuff that I that I take for granted as like this always works. [TS]

  Doesn't work anymore or works or radically like one of my biggest complaints with your Samedi is with networking. [TS]

  Issues. Usually with network discovery of resources or connectivity to network resources to local network resources. [TS]

  There's something about the way they revert discovery due to to enable continuity slash airdrop whatever whatever it is. [TS]

  It has made it extremely unreliable for things like network shares network printers to fight that we would have made [TS]

  fun of Windows people so badly. Beef. If their network shares or disappeared. [TS]

  You know every so often and or they had sixteen copies of the same computer on the network and like. [TS]

  These are issues that we have on your Samedi every day that are widespread issues lots of people have these issues. [TS]

  And it's like this is the basics. The basics are messed up now. You know the O.-S. Isn't crashing for most people like. [TS]

  We're not getting kernel panics. Fortunately. But you know. [TS]

  We are having a lot of weird little behaviors like that that just just things that seem basic similar to like [TS]

  when I.O.'s broke. Touch ID and phone calls. Like you know. [TS]

  Seems basic right [TS]

  and whatever the cause of that was that there was a you know delivery issue where I don't I don't care what the cause [TS]

  was the fact is like. You can't trust the basics anymore like that that I think is is scary and it. That's the kind of. [TS]

  That's what I'm talking about I'm talking about Apple losing repeat Haitian from this is like. [TS]

  You know nobody cares if things. You know don't quite look right or have some brand new feature. [TS]

  Doesn't quite work immediately like healthcare launched. [TS]

  It apparently I don't know much about I have I don't try to use it [TS]

  but apparently the condition of health kit at launch was a complete disaster. I don't know if it sticks and then. [TS]

  But it was like it was. It basically launch like not working at all if you didn't Apple. [TS]

  I remember the head of just all the apps for it and hold and delay them anyway. Big disaster will help get. [TS]

  That's less of it that's embarrassing. Certainly. But that's less important than. [TS]

  If you break a fundamental things like if if a new thing you promised isn't quite here yet like the the mac Photos app [TS]

  isn't here yet they promised. That's not that big of a deal. Like the stuff we've been using before. [TS]

  Will continue to work for a while like it. We're not losing functionality by that being late. [TS]

  But if they ship the photos thing. [TS]

  And it was horrible and all of a sudden [TS]

  and it took over like the way it the back hard drive like migrate player stuff over and you can't go back [TS]

  and all of a sudden like every so often you just lose a random photo. Like if it was busting. [TS]

  I can't mess with the basics and. The problem is that even the basics now. Get messed with on a high in a frequency. [TS]

  From these constant relentless. [TS]

  Big updates that the fundamentals are shaky now [TS]

  and that's really that's unsettling in actually assessing I didn't talk about this [TS]

  when I was discussing earlier I said a lot of people feel that the quality is decline but [TS]

  when I take my personal assessment of where the quality is declined. [TS]

  I think it comes just from having a longer view and having lived through lots of different cycles [TS]

  and having lived through. Times when it was way way worse. Like before I stand with you guys might not remember. [TS]

  I don't really think that things are worse now than they had ever been or that there's actually been a decline [TS]

  and not to say that I disagree with the sentiment of your post because I think it is a good senator. I you know. [TS]

  I endorse the sentiment except for it like it doesn't hinge on this being a new low. It merely. [TS]

  It merely hinges on the idea that you think the current situation is not acceptable which I agree with. [TS]

  And it's not acceptable because the apple today is not the apple that it was before the context is different they have [TS]

  more platforms they have different platforms their platforms that are more why. [TS]

  It's spread we use computers more often so on and so forth so I don't think the. [TS]

  There has been a decline in quality or any of the things you said about basic features not working it's like that [TS]

  but I think it should change because the context in which Apple is running its business and deploying its products. [TS]

  Is very different today and the one place where I would say things are slowly getting worse. [TS]

  Overall I don't think they are because I got bills been doing better in lots of areas [TS]

  but the one area where there are definite doing worse is as Apple again goes be a repeat of anyone's list of the show [TS]

  for any length of time sort of a million times there we go again. As Apple products. [TS]

  Integrate more [TS]

  and more network functionality as that becomes a larger percentage of what you do with your phone with your with you [TS]

  know it basically as i Cloud becomes more integrated as. As more of the network services. [TS]

  Stuff becomes part of Apple's products. [TS]

  Apple has not been getting better at that stuff fast enough [TS]

  and it's becoming a larger percentage of their product therefore it's dragging down the average. Because whatever. [TS]

  You know whatever product or technology you have does it involve cloud crap. Up. [TS]

  Well now you know it's like it's they can classes bringing down the average of bed test grades right. [TS]

  And every single one of their products. [TS]

  Now has either a small cloud component or a big con component [TS]

  or like it the whole friggin thing is a lot of components of that cloud part doesn't work it doesn't matter how good to [TS]

  be all right the caller on the client side. [TS]

  If the server side is falling over and [TS]

  and this is the type of thing they can get huge all Mike on the basics are anymore [TS]

  and so for example earlier this week no I said my contacts aren't sinking anymore I had a contact on my new i Pad Air. [TS]

  I had it like a week ago it's still not on my mac are on the i Phone [TS]

  and everything without correctly all know say my cot account nothing has changed everything is all think that [TS]

  everyone's all logged in there's no errors or anything is [TS]

  and I'm so now looking at here on the i Pad change the street address. Here it as the i Phone in the mac. [TS]

  It's not change and you just stare at me like why. Why is this a problem is the biggest owner of buggy clients offer. [TS]

  Almost certainly not right. It's but then you perceive this as. All my god the basics aren't working anymore. [TS]

  Because cloud functionality is now a basic it's something like you just expect I like my contacts are also going to [TS]

  cause everything that's the bar now and. Apple has really bad at that part of doing its products. [TS]

  And it's really bad at making a situation where you can do [TS]

  but like what I've been doing that situation you know I did a little dense that everybody does you just like sign out [TS]

  of i Cloud turn contacts off turn contacts back on add a new contact. [TS]

  You know just to see if it's sinking you know it like delete all i Cloud a different account sign.. [TS]

  Signed Bulliet of I caught in a delete a million photos from a shared photo stream so i Mac. [TS]

  Turn it back on a much a grind for three hours loading those photos back in you know. [TS]

  You'll eventually start singing again then you can. You know like it's just this dance that you do. [TS]

  And that infuriates be able so that part of Apple's products I think is getting better. [TS]

  Only because the percentage of cloudy stuff in software has been going up [TS]

  and Apple has Apple's ability to do cloud East. Well if not you know up and going up. No question there services. [TS]

  Still need work you know they've always that they've always been you know mediocre at that most of the service stuff [TS]

  but they and they still need work but. [TS]

  Most of the problems that I'm complaining about [TS]

  and I've been seeing over the last couple years actually aren't because of the services like. [TS]

  Even the local client side software is problematic in the last few [TS]

  but I think that's basically better than it has been in recent years resident worse. [TS]

  Solve all the things you've complained about I think back to the disaster is that where the early versions of Tiger [TS]

  or leopard unlike you don't know for not working that working you know from beach ball. [TS]

  Finder let me tell you it was you know. [TS]

  It was dire and I can just forget about classic megalithic that was a total mess in the later years of its life. So. [TS]

  And a lot of the times. There. If you can fault them for one of things they've done in recent releases. [TS]

  One place I would say you could fault them for example [TS]

  and I just saw Greyhawk American plan about this today is where they do a feature. [TS]

  That seems like it's not like a marketing feature [TS]

  but it's a feature they can put on a box that is a perfectly good feature to do [TS]

  but that almost nobody is willing to accept the restack during needed to implement the features of one of the example [TS]

  was like tags which detailed and whatever but did that come out and like a mountain lion [TS]

  or something talk about the implication of tags and how is this crazy hack based on the label thing all the stuff like. [TS]

  All right fine if you're not can use tags so what it does look like is a big deal. [TS]

  It doesn't seem like it would impact anything it's like you're just piggybacking on existing crazy Echaveste plus [TS]

  meditate and is all these weird bugs about it but if I don't use tax doesn't affect me right. [TS]

  Well apparently the something having to do with network shares where it makes a tag queer. Request There. [TS]

  Something and that hangs like it hangs the whole thing and you get a beach ball in the Finder [TS]

  and Elvis on people who don't know [TS]

  and don't care about tags are getting a worse experience in the Finder for a teacher [TS]

  or a feature they didn't even care about that type of thing is like. [TS]

  That's an engineering thing where you have to decide. It's OK to have new features. But we really have to balance. [TS]

  Like does a new feature require like oh [TS]

  and by the way now just every time I bring them that we're share we have to do this other thing [TS]

  and it had blocks like it's a problem. [TS]

  I don't know how you there that's that's that's a type of thing where [TS]

  when you're planning the future for an ass you really have to talk about and say this is a great feature. [TS]

  We've wanted this for a long time I think it'll be interesting. [TS]

  It's a good bullet point to add to the bottom not exist in box will do slides about it and and have a nice demo [TS]

  and stuff. [TS]

  Oh and by the way does this potentially compromise any basic functionality that everybody needs [TS]

  and if the answer to that is yes really think real long and hard about the tradeoffs there. [TS]

  That is the closest I think I can get to saying. [TS]

  Like a sort of potentially marketing driven decision that has led to sort of unacceptable instability [TS]

  and basic functionality and a lot of the historic things have meant like. [TS]

  We want to add some minor feature but it means totally refactoring this. The subsystem. [TS]

  And sometimes it's like oh that's bad because it's going to cause bugs BUT example of the good is like. [TS]

  I think in Yosemite they totally read it I can service has and it. [TS]

  Desperately needed to be redone because for years that have been these icon services bugs the cause of all my company [TS]

  pixilated and there was no way out of any just trying to purge and caches and restarting and eventually would go away [TS]

  or maybe not. That's what have a thing where it's like. [TS]

  It really important to fix the bug that's cosmetic it's not a big deal [TS]

  but the fix that we had to rewrite the entire icon services thing will eventually got it eventually got to get around [TS]

  to it [TS]

  and I'm glad they did get around to it so I don't want to be afraid to do that until like three just like oh we can't [TS]

  change anything we can't anything that we're you know Discovery Day. That would mean totally changing discovered. [TS]

  To do continuity. I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing. [TS]

  But again if that means for people learning a new continuity. [TS]

  Because discovery does the other jobs as well a compromise then you've got to be really careful by you make those [TS]

  changes. Yeah. [TS]

  You know I'd like to go back a step though and in you were saying well it was much worse early on you know. In gosh. [TS]

  Classic macro S. Was ridiculous with stability. [TS]

  But the problem I have with what you're saying even though it's surely correct. [TS]

  Is that there's so many new mac users not even count myself in that category I mean I came to to the Macin two thousand [TS]

  and six thousand and eight some like I don't remember. But for me. [TS]

  Even in my short almost instant testimony small tenure as a mac user as compared to you John. [TS]

  I can tell you that just my feeling of the quality of less ten releases. [TS]

  Is exactly what we're really all of us are saying is that with each with each new release I feel like it's getting kind [TS]

  not from your but more fragile. Bunch of thank you guys you two are just traveling. The the curve of your apple usage. [TS]

  What I mean like sort of like you know. Curiosity excitement. Marriage honeymoon period. [TS]

  I don't know you know you know me like that like they don't want to talk about a cycle was he a veteran for a long time [TS]

  you've gone through that's like like seven times already and I think collectively. [TS]

  Because like the mac used to be like this exclusive thing that now a lot of people had [TS]

  and we all loved it it was great and then there was the honeymoon period and things started to get a gram [TS]

  and then it's like oh maybe System seven brings us new life [TS]

  and then Windows ninety five game was like that was our hitting bottom you know it's like. [TS]

  We've gone through the cycle helped as it was small but the. The huge influx of Apple customers now. [TS]

  There's a whole it's kind of like the baby boom there's a whole generation of Apple users. [TS]

  Most of whom came on board either because the i Phone or the i Pod. Who are getting into the Apple stuff. [TS]

  And who have gone through their excitement and their courtship and their marriage in their honeymoon period. [TS]

  And are now kind of settling into bickering old middle age. [TS]

  And it's not this is not that this is a cycle of Apple's products and services [TS]

  but it's a cycle of a specific cohort of their customers. Because of the huge growth they've had in recent years. [TS]

  And that cohort. Is coming into their. You know I'm no longer impressed. [TS]

  More than I'm dissatisfied like that I take everything that works I've taken for granted [TS]

  and anytime something that didn't work starts. [TS]

  Did Work starts and not work and I perceive that as a decline in quality and I'm angry [TS]

  and so again I don't think like this perception is wrong [TS]

  and they should be talked out of it I think in the context of this massive customer base they have now. [TS]

  Apple has to do about it they absolutely have to. They have to realize that it's. [TS]

  You know you can't rely on the honeymoon period you have to actually satisfy the customer that you have. [TS]

  Congratulations you've got all these customers it's a lot i Phones. [TS]

  Now you're selling more Macs and i Pads stuff like that. [TS]

  This is their responsibility to fix it so I'm not I'm not saying this as a defense of the company [TS]

  and saying that he understands that absolutely do need to change it but from my view. [TS]

  You know with the long view I think these the quality things go in cycles [TS]

  and there are aspects that need to be addressed. The cloud stuff. [TS]

  Thinking hard about the release like on stuff like that [TS]

  but I'm not convinced that empirically in anything that you can actually measure you could say that the quality really [TS]

  is worse. [TS]

  And I may be just an academic point like us why haven't bothered blogging about this does not like I'll point I want to [TS]

  argue because it does in the end it doesn't matter if it's worth all of mattresses. [TS]

  What the perception is of the customers that you have now and if they're all in the bickering. Middle age period. [TS]

  You've got to deal with that you gotta make approx better and the and I think they should be better. [TS]

  Like why shouldn't you have the problem is that you're saying that we're all in the bickering middle age period maybe [TS]

  Mark when I are cuz I mean he beat me to the mat by three or four years I think but. [TS]

  But even new customers and I I can think of a great example but I am extraordinary I know I have friends [TS]

  and family members that have come to the MAC much more recently than I only in the last couple years [TS]

  and even some that haven't gotten Macs [TS]

  but we're thinking about it that are all real I don't know about this anymore because of heard some bad things [TS]

  and I've heard that things are going so well that. That's like when the baby boomers like whatever the baby boom. [TS]

  Are into our want [TS]

  or what they feel like influences the larger society because they are the largest group of people like they influence [TS]

  the others so this huge group of existing Apple customers who is now becoming dissatisfied. [TS]

  Influence all the people who are interested because all the hear from all the people who are they know who are in this. [TS]

  You know you're likely to know a baby boomer because a lot of them. [TS]

  And you're likely to know one of these mac users or Apple users who's a kind of on the downswing and dissatisfaction. [TS]

  And what you're going to hear from them is like oh. Things are worse now it's crappy. [TS]

  I don't like it you know I mean like it's the. It's a network effect type of thing like X. [TS]

  Of these things go in cycles. [TS]

  And the cycle who are not completely in lockstep [TS]

  but it's like waves of people in the influence other people in articles like this and you know the cycle of the ME [TS]

  and stuff like that again I don't think that that particularly matters. [TS]

  Because the bottom line is they do have quality problems they do need to address they do need to do better because if [TS]

  you have this many customers. [TS]

  You can't rely on them all to be like Oh gee whiz Apple stuff is so shiny and I love it so much because that. [TS]

  That is not sustainable sustainable if you have to do the hard stuff and be reliable and be consistent [TS]

  and figure out how to give new features. [TS]

  Without compromising stability figure out what you really schedules [TS]

  and figure out how to do this cloud stuff more reliably. Well. So first of all let me go back a minute. [TS]

  I've been using the Apple. Ecosystem. Starting out with Macs first and then eventually I.O.'s things. [TS]

  For actually slightly longer than I ever used P.C.'s. So I were slightly past my twenty year mark of use of computers. [TS]

  And it's basically like literally ten years in I switched. So I'm about six months past. [TS]

  My twenty year marks I've been using Windows. I use Windows the full time for ten years. [TS]

  And then I'm using Apple stuff full time for ten and a half years now and. [TS]

  So I think I'm past the point or I mean I guess I can always get older. [TS]

  But I think of has the point where this could just be like me having a bad memory of things I don't know [TS]

  but I think one of the things that exacerbates this feeling of things getting worse. [TS]

  Is that there's so much more that these devices do first of all there's more devices and that's that's a big one. [TS]

  That's And. So let's say ninety nine point five percent of the time. [TS]

  Things work the way they should and zero point five percent have some kind of bug or failure or doesn't or crash [TS]

  or you know some something that something goes wrong. Point five down the time. [TS]

  Every every device uses that you have like every time you take your phone in your pocket to use it. [TS]

  You're doing that like a hundred times a day. Right. People measured at the law. [TS]

  That was the one I was thinking about the products that Apple sells [TS]

  and customers that they have into the fact that the we use the computer is more like. It is numerically more. [TS]

  But like press. Percentage wise like they're not producing more bugs per line of code or. You know whatever is just a. [TS]

  There's more code. [TS]

  It will use it more often and I should also emphasize I haven't seen this chat room yet [TS]

  but I realize I'm thinking of the bag mad I'm talking almost entirely about the Maquis [TS]

  or because we're talking about you. Samedi and I was ten in the release schedule. [TS]

  I.O.'s I will absolutely stipulate that I was seven eight [TS]

  or more worse quality wise than the proceeding with absolutely. I think that it. [TS]

  I don't think anyone's arguing that as a reason having a debate about the mac yet [TS]

  and I mean I can tell you to really working with a lot of these new A.P.I. Is that are added in seven eight. [TS]

  There's a lot of bugs that are just A.P.I. [TS]

  but It's like they're just bugs in the shipping version that your app has to work around in a lot of the new features [TS]

  like ADD and a lot of old features that get rebirth and after they've been fixed and O. S. Bugs like. [TS]

  How many times that like. It just takes out the whole S. [TS]

  Like that isn't that was not an i OS experience in the past now. [TS]

  To give I us some credit like the changes and they are perhaps the most significant changes dial us in a long time. [TS]

  But for I was you have a much stronger argument that numerically I can show you that the quality of Iowa seven [TS]

  and eight has been a decline. [TS]

  And I can show you that and I can strongly argue that the absolutely lockstep hardware [TS]

  and software release schedule of i OS is puts the software team in a very difficult position in terms of quality if [TS]

  you're going to try to do yearly releases. [TS]

  And it has to come out of the ones you know what I think about with the phones. Let me show you a pie chart of. [TS]

  I OS device profits in Apple's revenue like it's. That's the entire freaking company now. [TS]

  The MAC gets the luxury of not being white is locked into that although I us in the back are sort of moving. [TS]

  Had together now. But the not get to be like you go ahead i Phone six. Yeah I'll be I'll be there in a minute. [TS]

  Like now we don't have to release its find you will just release the next with the old version of the O.S. [TS]

  The boots like are we just hold the next back nobody cares man nobody cares about the IMAX become a when it's ready. [TS]

  And so that's why mostly focusing on the mac at IO as I would definitely stipulate I mean. [TS]

  Copy and paste all those and worked for me sometimes and I know some of them tell me that doesn't work for them [TS]

  and use them as well but like there actually is a longstanding pasteboard bug that I had every cell. [TS]

  That's been in America less dense and I started using a. So like and I us though. [TS]

  Like we've all used every version of violence like we've all been there from the beginning. [TS]

  And we can say you know there there were bumps in the road but seven hundred eight is a definitely downward bump. [TS]

  And that's our recent history for the past two years. Yeah. And it again it just it seems like C. [TS]

  and This is what I think early. [TS]

  Because because everything is so much more complicated now and there's so much more of it. [TS]

  Those those little point five percent of things going wrong. [TS]

  They don't add they multiply like the chances of you running into something going wrong are wrong any given day. [TS]

  Is multiplied by all those factors. And the clouds up at the cloud of the multiplying factor to. Yeah. [TS]

  It's behind everything and it's between them [TS]

  and like you know getting all the continuity in the air drop stuff to work. Throwing a watch. Yeah. [TS]

  And the problem I see like right now today. I get my work done. It's usually not a problem. [TS]

  But the rate of failures does seem to be going up and the the biggest problem I see is not you know. [TS]

  Everybody has a bad release every so often even big companies like Apple. [TS]

  They're not gonna get everything perfect every time that's fine but is there a sign of things getting better [TS]

  and that's where I'm really scared is I don't see it. Well it's more than that right it's not only. [TS]

  There's no sign of things getting better but the engineering talent is getting spread even more thin. [TS]

  In that in that you know now we have a watch coming. [TS]

  And that's a whole nother platform with a whole nother series of A.P.I. [TS]

  Is that that somebody is going to have to write and. Even if it turns out that. [TS]

  They've hired a bunch of engineers well. Are they as good as the engineers that exist are they worse. [TS]

  Name may even be better but they certainly won't be as entrenched in the Apple way. So yeah the. [TS]

  I think you're right Marco that we haven't seen any indication or get better [TS]

  and we have plenty of ways that it could get worse [TS]

  and I'd like to hear what you job say about that we should really talk about something cool. Yeah. [TS]

  And just to close up. [TS]

  My part of this I think you know I posted the follow up post saying how much I regret publishing that post. [TS]

  I regret having published the post. Not because it was complaining about Apple. [TS]

  But because I just didn't do very good job writing it. I don't regret complaining about Apple. [TS]

  I think these complaints were valid or need to be made need to be made [TS]

  and one of the reasons why the post spread so incredibly quickly and far and wide. [TS]

  Is because there's so much agreement out there. [TS]

  And you know once I got to that to the major media that was all sensationalism for the most part but [TS]

  when it spread around the community first. Which it did first. [TS]

  That was because people feel this that this is this is a thing. [TS]

  So I only regret not having done a very good job writing it. And you know some poor word choice. [TS]

  Choices here and there. I don't at all regret making the complaint. Anyway. [TS]

  Speaking of better things and that our second sponsor this week is hover. Thinking of things I do badly. [TS]

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  While use promo code high ground for ten percent off your first purchase. Thank you very much to hover. [TS]

  For sponsoring our show once again. I want something better that I wrote would have gotten that popular. [TS]

  That's that's the regret is like something Iraq up top of that isn't very good. If you want to go a medal like. [TS]

  I wish I could remember this [TS]

  but it's the problem with our show IT system is I don't think global docs like keep history forever. [TS]

  Like we delete stuff when we're done with it rather than like making a document so mad [TS]

  but anyway there was an item in the show notes where you wrote a post. [TS]

  Many weeks ago and I put I put it into the show it's because I want to talk about it. [TS]

  And you put a no bias that you said I don't think it's interesting I don't want to talk about it I mention you deleted [TS]

  from the notes. And don't remember what it was The Remember I'm talking about Margo. [TS]

  That describes many things there and I think it was about one of it was about one of your posts on market are [TS]

  and the reason I put it in the notes was not to talk about the content of the post. [TS]

  But to talk about like this post is why people get angry you Marco. Because there was a great example. [TS]

  It was a great example of you posting something that me reading it I knew exactly what you meant [TS]

  and it stopped again so that you had said a million times in the pod gas and it's just like. [TS]

  This is not shocking your revolutionary day but he listens to the shower knows you are both. And yet. [TS]

  If I came to that post. [TS]

  Like you know just blank without knowing and it without having any context I would have read it and gotten angry. [TS]

  And then it's all about just like word choice in tone and stuff like that [TS]

  and you talked about those in your thing it's like you regret using a particular word [TS]

  or you can break a phrase you don't feel like you want to write everything. [TS]

  Where you're writing your constant thing where people are going to say and they like your writing defensively [TS]

  and you're second guessing yourself and all that other stuff and that's what I want to talk about [TS]

  when we did that both and maybe if we did that maybe even years ago arbiter in this post anyway [TS]

  or maybe you were thought of ahead of me writing this thing and. Because that's. I don't. [TS]

  The negative part of the part I think you've articulated well a lot of people talk about it like. [TS]

  You don't want that feeling where you. [TS]

  You're They're afraid to write something or when you're writing it you're like defending. [TS]

  You're defending things like your. You're defending yourself or imagined attackers as you're writing. [TS]

  Right because that doesn't feel like good and you should be like Jimmy just say what I'm going to say. But I think the. [TS]

  The flipside of that and something that you get if you. [TS]

  If you care deeply about these things which you clearly do you know like. If you care at all about what you write and. [TS]

  You know better in yourself I'm becoming a better writer and. [TS]

  You know this up is that some people don't some people just writes In Session. Sensational B.S. [TS]

  You feel like a slave like a baby. And I don't care that they are just like riled the bunch of people. [TS]

  I can tell you quite a few of them right now. You are not like that at all right. And you learn MY And so for all like. [TS]

  For all the years writing a left hander is everything especially in the beginning when people thought I was a lousy P.C. [TS]

  User didn't know anything about Macs and I just try to mak ones I wouldn't hate them so much like. [TS]

  It trains you like the. The lesser light side of that defensiveness is. You get very good at reading a sentence. [TS]

  As it exists not as you want to be and making sure that your specific word choices. [TS]

  Are you can defend them if challenge because you picked exactly the right word for what you meant and. [TS]

  The second of all that I can I pick a word that will help me to help me to not be misunderstood sometimes that's harder [TS]

  to do and sometimes like you know what I use the correct word if they can't figure it out explain to them after this [TS]

  but I always like what I was WANT TO DO WITH MY ALL the last ten reviews. [TS]

  And my current ones that matter is if someone hasn't complained about something. [TS]

  I want to be able to answer them by merely copying and pasting the sentence from the thing I wrote to say. [TS]

  You read the sentence again because it contains the words in the correct order to express the answered your question [TS]

  and yet you seem to have glossed over it right. Like where they where they read what they wanted to hear. [TS]

  And you get into trouble when you pick a word that expresses your feeling at the time [TS]

  but if you were to read the sentence you like you know what I would actually like The knows that I think you would [TS]

  choose a different word but when you wrote it. Like oh that's that's the word for how feeling now. But if you. [TS]

  If you take. You would never take the that sends back and pasted to somebody say. [TS]

  As a defense in fact you would look at and say Oh. [TS]

  Actually that's not there it was not precisely what I meant that sort of. [TS]

  Some people call like loyally like word choice or whatever like it sounds boring and it sounds crappy [TS]

  but it's actually something I kind of savor and writing my things in that. [TS]

  I want every sentence I write to be at least defensible to me like I should be able to explain myself it should express [TS]

  whatever I think if it doesn't express exactly what I think I should pick a word to get close to expressing what I [TS]

  think [TS]

  and that practice some people get some you'll find that practice kind of harmonies like you know it's going to be alright [TS]

  money on which I think it's perfectly fine but for me. [TS]

  I get all paranoid about it why can't one night [TS]

  when people can use my own words against me I have chosen the wrong words because they're not really like that's not [TS]

  what I meant I never want to say oh no that's not what I meant I want to say no that's exactly what I meant. [TS]

  And maybe I can. Diagram the sentence for you to explain how I think what I meant. [TS]

  If not what you're saying because there's what you know. [TS]

  Everything around that people are always going to read what you actually wrote and say. [TS]

  I think what you're saying here is that Apple is doomed like that I write that Apple was doomed. [TS]

  No but seems like it seems like really. You know like we can have that debate but I don't want people to put the word. [TS]

  You're saying here that Apple's qualities take a nose dive I never said Oh. [TS]

  Jim I did say nose dive that's not really what I meant. Right. That's the frustration that's what hurts. [TS]

  Is that I feel embarrassed and guilty that I made a bad word choice. [TS]

  Not like I can be angry if somebody misquotes me or. [TS]

  You know take something out of context or whatever but there's only so much you can do about that [TS]

  but you don't want them to be able to actually quote you. [TS]

  In context and you feel bad about exactly that's the problem is like when I know I was wrong and I did something bad [TS]

  or stupid. [TS]

  And then you're think it's magnified [TS]

  when you write a million things like everybody does especially if you're a frequent blog you read a million things we [TS]

  don't pick the person I had the luxury of picking the precise word every like one thing a year [TS]

  and it just poured over it like an insane person right but if you're blogging every day like you. [TS]

  You know but and then you get caught by surprise is like most of my stuff gets read by X. [TS]

  Number of people that got read by X. Times a hundred thousand. [TS]

  And that's kind of like an unfair lens to focus on again what you probably thought was like. [TS]

  There's another one of those posts or summarize what I've been saying A.T.P. The best in months. [TS]

  You bang it out you're done you go to sleep like no big deal right now he wake up and it's like go. [TS]

  Why why this one and not when I talk about like closed headphones [TS]

  and I think I think the answer to why this one the like people picked up on this is like. [TS]

  If it wasn't you it would have been someone else because that has been the air like this is this is an actual thing. [TS]

  You know your guard you about justification [TS]

  or whatever I'm saying like the current crop of Apple customers are in a cycle now. [TS]

  Where we are not satisfied with the quality of the products we're getting. [TS]

  And you know we expect more than we're getting our expectations. [TS]

  Maybe up our usage maybe up the quality maybe down some combination but we're not happy [TS]

  and so it's been bouncing around but apropos you with software colleagues and bouncing around circles for just. [TS]

  I think of this point for you know. Over a year. And this just happened to catch. [TS]

  Because it was the right person at the right time expressing the things that you know. [TS]

  He's saying what we're all thinking right and or. You know their misquote of him is what I'm thinking. Well. [TS]

  Well the funny thing is I was digging through the showdown so you guys were talking trying to find that link [TS]

  and I'm not sure that this is the one you're looking for. [TS]

  John but I did stumble upon the products Apple doesn't have time to improve dated December twenty ninth two thousand [TS]

  and thirteen. Very last paragraph is on. Marco's website. [TS]

  While most of the press demands new hardware categories I'd be perfectly happy if Apple never made a T.V. [TS]

  or A watch or a unicorn and instead devoted the next five years to polishing the software [TS]

  and services for their existing product lines. December twenty ninth twenty thirteen. [TS]

  Now that wasn't what I was thinking of in terms of the one I was going to complain about how Marco wrote it [TS]

  and not what he wrote it was like it was it was like not a. I don't know his tech related it was just something random. [TS]

  Right. My point is just that over a year ago. We were all complaining about software quality. [TS]

  I always give I mean ultimately do all the archives but I saw four guys [TS]

  and I not unlike what we all complain it's just like. [TS]

  When does it reach a critical mass when does a gain traction in the larger thing when does it become [TS]

  and it's almost kind of sad that it becomes a story because then. Then it itself. Begins the cycle. [TS]

  All that we know will eventually end where this becomes a thing and then we talk about it and abounds around [TS]

  and we forget and it's kind of a shame that that is a cycle to write that the media cycle about this thing. [TS]

  And the media cycle terminate long before it does any satisfaction. SAS satisfactory resolution to the actual problem. [TS]

  Because the media cycle has a life of its own. [TS]

  That is not concerned with the substance of the things it's reporting on like. Once the story goes away it's like oh. [TS]

  I remember that story a couple years ago that was him suffer [TS]

  but I guess the stick now is that I hear of it anymore no probably not like you know the the. [TS]

  The reality continues to lurch along right and so you know. [TS]

  Just like Apple of you like Africa comes and goes in cycles in between then is it solved Nope. No not at all like. [TS]

  And I think that's that's the problem like it [TS]

  when that's all we talk about in the show is like systemic problems with Apple's products [TS]

  and how they might solve them. [TS]

  And you're the option Marco put out there like the fans who have like I'll just keep polishing your products are [TS]

  furious. That is more viable on the Mac. Because like I said. Who are they chasing at this point like. [TS]

  It's not a an active battleground it's more of you know. [TS]

  Borders and draw numbers and I was ten it's kind of gently encroaching on Windows [TS]

  but it's not like a burgeoning market but on the phone. They really do have to be racing forward. [TS]

  They also need to get their quality under control [TS]

  and need to balance those two things I think the good thing going for them is that as a lot of people started like. [TS]

  I think I saw someone say I was hit with I think I was basically feature complete now right you know that you know the [TS]

  end of history illusion right yeah OK that's all there. But. [TS]

  But in some respects it's like I was a brought a lot of longstanding things that we wanted for a long time. [TS]

  And you do have now a window of time where you can polish those because it's not like there's some major feature there [TS]

  are like all I got I was totally needs like background processing or multitasking or. [TS]

  You know better interop communication [TS]

  or better way to share files like at this point it's basically an app store problem with the like loud thing like the [TS]

  basics are there if only they worked. Now. [TS]

  I mean that was kind of like so many features in Leopard were like all the things you add in Leopard sound great I'll [TS]

  be really excited when they work. You know and they were like two years. [TS]

  Don't know whether it came out and it's like oh now. [TS]

  All that stuff kind of works and that's kind of good but nothing that are featured plate but they do go in cycles [TS]

  and I'm hoping that I was nine. [TS]

  And the authentic comes out after it will be a cycle where they don't feel the need that. [TS]

  You know that neither of us is desperately missing some Peacher and they can do a polishing release. [TS]

  I don't necessarily agree with the assumption. They need to be racing ahead with software and I alas. [TS]

  Because I mean look. They just took a big chunk out of Android sales. Not because I was eight support extensions. [TS]

  But because they made bigger screen phones. [TS]

  Well the heart of the hardware aside they need to be written for their job it wouldn't you agree the features they had [TS]

  and I was a had many of them are sort of long overdue. [TS]

  I would agree that they were do but I don't think that is going to give the massive market share for Android. [TS]

  Or I or rather I don't think that's going to cause a lot of injured people to switch. Like it'll cost some. [TS]

  That's where the bar is now though. Like they were they were behind. And they needed to catch up. [TS]

  Right and so it's not like you suddenly get more users this is just the. The Anti to to get in the game. [TS]

  And you know they had to keep being raised as a terrible I don't know anything about gambling sorry. Anyway. [TS]

  That analogy. But I like the barber so far as to borrow something I can. [TS]

  The bar is being raised I have to keep an android had had. [TS]

  You know raise the bar in so many areas that I was was unwilling or unable to to chase [TS]

  and there were several releases where it was essentially. [TS]

  Let's keep the catch up to or Android already is simply because that is like. [TS]

  That is the standard these days [TS]

  and if you don't have these features people are going to ding you for it having them doesn't mean people switch just [TS]

  means you get to be in the conversation and nobody get to throw in your face no third party keyboards right. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things I really don't think a lot of those things were mattering in the marketplace as much [TS]

  as geeks like to think they were. I don't I mean it's difficult to say but like. [TS]

  When I was saying before it's like because the because I left the base with because the i Phone is such a huge part of [TS]

  Apple's business. And you know this the majority of their business I think at this point. [TS]

  And it's super important as the market that's growing the most. That's the one that has the most kind of. [TS]

  And it has an active competitor like not a sleeping one and not like a fossilised one bit about several active. [TS]

  Competitors that are weird because one guy's got you know Google's got the O. S. [TS]

  No platform but Samsung's making the money and. [TS]

  You don't even know who is going to come out of China with some crazy phones that are based on their own Android very [TS]

  unlike. [TS]

  It's kind of a malevolent twisting enemy that you that you're not quite sure how to defeating you just try to do like [TS]

  we just need to do our best in a race [TS]

  or a disaster because like I understand the sentiment they could have may have gone too fast in some respects they may [TS]

  have gone too slow holding back on all the features that I was eight [TS]

  and then putting them all out in one big bang release right [TS]

  but I understand that they felt like you know that the wolf was chasing them both is like an analogy show. [TS]

  A metaphor show is the wolf was chasing them. [TS]

  And it felt like they had to race where the no less tense like who's where you go on the stop Linux is not coming join [TS]

  your pain like Windows is kind of. You know it's resting at the very least and. [TS]

  They already won that market and it's not growing and just like slow and steady wins the race. [TS]

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  Automatic it plugs into the man every time I think about this. Oh. The O.B.D. Two port it plugs into that on your car. [TS]

  It's compatible with almost every car out there. Made in the maids and I start using pewters. Go check out.. [TS]

  Automatic dot com slash A.T.P. You can save hundreds of dollars on gas. You can divert your check engine light codes. [TS]

  Interface with your phone. So the and it has also pretty apt. [TS]

  Like all these trendy things do these days it's also been trendy and. You can see all the. [TS]

  You know graphs of you fuel economy you can see if you've been driving inefficiently how you driving [TS]

  and efficiency if you know if you're telling too hard or breaking to feel too hard. [TS]

  It will tell you all that it can track all that data for you and also does a couple cool things a parking locator. [TS]

  Because it knows where you park because your phone was in your car when you parked. [TS]

  Automatic now also works with the nest. Learning thermostat if you have enough thermostat. [TS]

  Automatic can signal to your thermostat when you leave work. [TS]

  To automatically warm your house up or cool your house down so that when you get home it is the right temperature. [TS]

  That's a pretty cool feature. And this there's often thing that could really help you out in a serious situation. [TS]

  It can automatically signal for help in a crash because the car can sense when it's been an accident. [TS]

  And the automatic peripheral has a Bluetooth connection to your phone. [TS]

  And so it can dial your phone through the app and simple issue of the app. [TS]

  We should signal to emergency services that you've crashed in an emergency and. So if your or if you're. [TS]

  You know too slow or unable to call for help. [TS]

  It will do it for you and that's really serious that could really be helpful so. This is good stuff. [TS]

  I Phone and Android are both supported. Now. Automatic. [TS]

  There's no subscription fees as no monthly fee there's no service fee. [TS]

  You get by the by automatic device up front if plugs in your car and that's it. Normally the hundred bucks.. [TS]

  Which is already a fantastic deal. But using our coupon code or by just by going to automatic dot com flash A.T.P. [TS]

  You get twenty percent off bring it down just a bucks. Again. No monthly fees. You pay the eighty bucks upfront. [TS]

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  Ships into business days all this is great stuff. So trite out. Eighty bucks. Forty five day return policy. [TS]

  Free Shipping. You can't go wrong. So good automatic dot com slash A.T.P. Thanks a lot. All right. [TS]

  Do you want to talk about family sharing or is that going to take another two hours now [TS]

  and if we don't want to talk about family sharing If I are choices [TS]

  and think now our talk about the MacBook Air rumors [TS]

  or to listen me drone on more about markets think of the thing going on much longer about. [TS]

  Let's talk about the macro care rumors [TS]

  but I'm not saying that I don't want to hear your other thoughts on on Marco's post at some point maybe the after show. [TS]

  Yeah that's fine. All right so what were the start from ninety five Mack is that right. [TS]

  Yeah Markram got if it's true a pretty good scoop. About this the the alleged twelve inks Retina MacBook Air. [TS]

  And there's been rumors about. Well then i Pad Pro and a twelve in fretting a math book air. [TS]

  So far there when people seem to think those are two separate devices. [TS]

  These are not two separate divided right yeah exactly. So you know. I guess I'll believe them for now. [TS]

  I tweeted earlier on Twitter that I suspect that there's a good chance this is actually just one device that [TS]

  and immediately people are saying will the new built the service will suck. [TS]

  That's not going to choose my words carefully. Speaking of the service. My sons I guessed. [TS]

  School think he did something in school where they went to a Microsoft store. [TS]

  And I know this because he came home to me and said. [TS]

  Why do we have separate i Pad and a laptop service and I'll call you and I listen to his argument for the service. [TS]

  He's lost a starter. He doesn't know anything about. So. Anyway. So yeah I mean. [TS]

  My theory was that there were rumors about one device that was either a MacBook or. And i Pad. [TS]

  But anyway regardless it sounds all the room people are insisting it's actually shooter from devices [TS]

  and they know more than I do obviously I don't I haven't heard anything subform them. So. So anyway. [TS]

  Supposedly is two devices fine. And this. This one in particular was the twelve inch. Retina MacBook Air. [TS]

  And it makes a number of pretty substantial. If again. If this is correct. Which That's a big if I don't think we need. [TS]

  The reason I put the nose I don't think we need to care whether it's true [TS]

  and I think we can just discuss the rumor as in like. Is this something that Apple would make. [TS]

  And if they did make it would you like it why not fair enough. I might like it so. My. My portable needs. [TS]

  Have always been best served by a fifteen inch. However in recent times. I have. I have come to realize that. [TS]

  I always think I will get a lot more work done when I'm traveling with my laptop. That I actually do. [TS]

  I always think oh my laptop and I can maybe i can finally at this feature of the app. Even all be you know. [TS]

  Offline most of the time or have limited connectivity or I'll be up state with D.S.L. [TS]

  Connection that's like fermenting to seventy five. You know so I always think I'll get a lot of work done in practice. [TS]

  I usually just do basic web and email stuff because I am waiting to get back to my. [TS]

  My big fast computer with my big fat internet connection at home. [TS]

  So I might try it simply because I am due for a new laptop this year. And actually and the one. [TS]

  So I currently have a first gen retina fifteen. So it is almost three years like two and a half years old now. [TS]

  So this coming summer only three years old that. It's like I have no reason really to replace it. [TS]

  Except that it does have a screen image or tension issues pretty badly now. And and. [TS]

  My father in law needed a computer and so and I because it has pretty bad. [TS]

  I mean contention I don't really feel comfortable selling it to somebody so I figure I'll just give it to him he really [TS]

  needs a computer basically now. [TS]

  So I figure as soon as something new with Broadwell comes out that I want I will buy it and do the swap. [TS]

  I there have been many occasions. Or I have been in some kind of travel. Situation usually flying. [TS]

  Where a fifteen inch is way too big to take out and use. [TS]

  And so I think I would use something the small the people who fly a lot always talk about the eleven in chair [TS]

  and I've never liked the eleven inch because the screen is just so damn small on it like isn't it. It's isn't it. [TS]

  Thirteen sixty six across that might not only the lower as. But it's also physically small like there's wasted. [TS]

  The borders on it seems way too while you're the thing is already small [TS]

  and you couldn't you couldn't stretch though the screen to the edges Apparently not. Yeah exactly. [TS]

  So anyway so this rumor thing looks really nice in that. It appears to have a dramatically reduced. [TS]

  Screen bezel with which is nice. Or as you would say Brazil. [TS]

  I'll never forget that distinctive looks I have you know plastic but thousand the front of them and. [TS]

  And the keyboard goes edge to edge. [TS]

  One thing in the report said that the keyboard keys are actually narrower [TS]

  and I'm a little worried about that because they haven't changed the size of the keyboard keys in a very long time. [TS]

  Well hold on. Was that the keys were narrower or the borders between the keys were narrower. Well it doesn't matter. [TS]

  Does the because in in the picture in the diagram again this is all could just be fancy stuff in a diagram. [TS]

  The plasticky capture the same size they're merely place closer together [TS]

  and that is different from making the keys bigger so the gaps to be. [TS]

  And small [TS]

  but having a senator points in the same place the seem to be implying that the center points were in different places. [TS]

  So the keys are actually closer together I am magine. If the spacing is as shown. If you are a crappy typist like me. [TS]

  You'd probably be OK. [TS]

  But it is it is a compromise that it's like if you made the thing an actress animator water would that have been a deal [TS]

  breaker to have a standard keyboard like it's an interesting design tradeoff if true with. [TS]

  If the product was as conceptualized already had to more of the. [TS]

  Supposedly you know if this product was real what about this is Andrea. [TS]

  But the keyboard one is one of the minor ones but it's like. [TS]

  It's a line in the sand where it's like previously was like nope full size keys everywhere. Spacing it for all we know. [TS]

  Like I haven't actually measured center to center [TS]

  but I'm assuming that the keyboard spacing has not changed in the modern era of Apple hardware and. [TS]

  This would be a change. I don't I don't think I would notice it and I don't know you guys both touch typists. [TS]

  Yep mixed. Like I'm like you know a little bit sloppy but that God on title that. [TS]

  If you would use his keyboard Casey would you feel. [TS]

  Would you say oh I get it was obviously views on a lot of techie board cover her [TS]

  and i Pad you like I was like official price keyboard it's crazy I can type on it right. [TS]

  And that's an extreme with this spacing difference do you do you think you would feel it. [TS]

  I don't think so I will say that the rare occasions that I used to Max many many years ago. [TS]

  And the little nubbins were on the D. and. What which was the other T D N K. [TS]

  Keys back before they moved them to the P.C. Position of F. and J. [TS]

  That threw me off on student Lee and I could barely type on a mac back then but that was a. [TS]

  I would argue a much bigger difference I think if I just have to if I just have to get used to the keys being slightly [TS]

  together. [TS]

  Or slightly close together I don't think that would make a very big difference at all now [TS]

  and less a really big sausage fingers I think I find with laptops that. [TS]

  It's more of a thing getting used to the Keys that they move like the fact the controls not in the corner this [TS]

  when they move a skate better the corner and that would probably screw screw me up [TS]

  or maybe script people who are like Emacs users or other people might have the escapee more than you might expect. [TS]

  One exciting thing about this. This mock up of a keyboard here is that the left or right arrow keys are full size. [TS]

  Which is like one baby steps towards the sanity of full size arrow keys. [TS]

  But now but I haven't break the won't break the border of the keyboard yet but this is a baby step isn't in fact. [TS]

  Actually this maybe not be babies that this may be regression because it might have been driving him crazy to have half [TS]

  light left [TS]

  and right keys because they broke the symmetry of every key kept being the same size except for the you know modifier [TS]

  keys and stuff. So I don't know of any why I endorse that rumored change as well. So the big rumored change. [TS]

  Which has all of us talking about this in particular is allegedly. All of the ports are gone. Except a headphone jack.. [TS]

  And a U.S.B. Three type see the new reversible U.S.B. Connector including the power counter like so the the. [TS]

  So if this is true. The power and all device connections except headphones. Will have to run through a single US be. [TS]

  Type C. Connector. Right so I think the first I mean say about this is. [TS]

  Is this technically possible to do right and from people who are been following the spec more closely than us. [TS]

  Apparently the answer is yes the U.S.B. Types you connector. Has a lot of capability. [TS]

  And I don't know the fine details of it [TS]

  but the people are saying that it was designed to carry up to one hundred watts of power into the computer. [TS]

  If necessary as well as be able to stream to kind of multiplex other device other port types. Over that physical plug. [TS]

  And I can do displays as well. Yes exactly. So it does seem like it is possible. So the answer. [TS]

  That's that I think I don't know if was emphasizing other darkly I mean they mention it here but like. [TS]

  The reason we can have this discussion is because plus [TS]

  or minus maybe minor things about like well won't charges faster or you be limited in monitors [TS]

  or will it compromise the speed of the boss. Technically from the specs it seems like yes this is a thing you could do. [TS]

  You can take a hot top with a headphone port. And a single U.S.B. Type seaport. [TS]

  It still might be a bad idea but it does seem like it's possible technically. [TS]

  Now if Apple did this and made this device regardless of whether we think they're going to or not. [TS]

  Would you want to buy one would it change your opinion of like of your saying you might want to get this is nice it's [TS]

  nice to get a laptop or vice me like having a laptop would be cool to be small [TS]

  and would this change your your decision about getting one. Probably not simply because it wouldn't affect the way. [TS]

  I use it but I also recognize. [TS]

  Like the with the way I use my laptop as a secondary and pretty occasional computer really. [TS]

  That's not how most people use a laptop most people use a laptop as their only computer and are using it frequently [TS]

  and. Most of the time it's on a desk plugged in to other stuff. [TS]

  So for that kind of use again we will have to see this is all we could be totally wrong this port could be totally [TS]

  awesome. [TS]

  And we might my peach be able to shut everything through it and have a little base station or adapter whatever. [TS]

  I'm not willing to say that it would be totally awesome because like the The Big One is that they're saying mag safe is [TS]

  gone to add a mag safe isn't just like go is just coming up with another port U.S.B. Connector to carry the power. [TS]

  Why would you do it well the same reason magnet exists in the first place because you don't want to plug the goes [TS]

  inside your computer to be the power cord to be able to power like. That's why magnet was invented we did that before. [TS]

  Like we had laptops where there was a connector that went into there and we hope broke them off [TS]

  and certain point you know not to say mag they've just perfect and mag safe too has been arguably regression. [TS]

  And maybe this thing is so thin that they can't figure out how to get a mag say. [TS]

  Maybe they should switch like the i Watch type little you know. [TS]

  Magnetic induction suction cup you look and thing over I don't know what they have to do. [TS]

  But I don't want to go back to a world where people can trip over the power cord or a laptop [TS]

  and so if this thing came out. It's not just that it has one port but if it didn't even have a power port. [TS]

  This would make me strongly consider. Not only not buying it for myself with on real life. [TS]

  I think magnate is one of the best teachers they've ever had to laptop line [TS]

  and if they take it away in favor of this little U.S.B. Type C. Connector. I would have. [TS]

  I would take a wait and see approach and I would say. [TS]

  Basically have to see is the connector so tiny that it's practically a thousand lightning connector you know. [TS]

  Is so tiny that it basically acts like Max that even that you can trip over a million times and it won't break off [TS]

  and it won't yank your computer down just because it's so small like it's not like a big full size U.S.B. [TS]

  Connector or is that really the issue that I think it's going to be and that. You know it's not as good as an X. [TS]

  A And we're back to the old days. But what about the X. Box style. Midway through the cable break away from doing the X. [TS]

  Box style. Statistics. [TS]

  I mean that's like you know any big giant thing in the middle of your cable know what if it wasn't so big and giant [TS]

  but it still serve the same purpose [TS]

  and you got to use the special cable the time in so let's get to the other compromises of having a single part of your [TS]

  the max a thing entirely pretend the power thing is not an issue. [TS]

  Why would you have just one of them less you're making some sort of philosophical statement like of their technical [TS]

  reason why we think we'd have just one some people have argued power because the second part require power [TS]

  and I could maybe kind of buy that [TS]

  but I don't know enough about the specs of the bars of the Coram line of processors might write. [TS]

  I don't know if there is something about adding another port that a. [TS]

  That is a significant power drain it seems like in this mock up there's space on the side of it where you could put [TS]

  another port. Well. It is teardrop shape still though. So it does paper into a into a narrow. [TS]

  Or shape as you go down closer to the person sitting so there might not be as much room for more of them as you think I [TS]

  would get if this is. [TS]

  I think this is all the stuff for shop job a bit surrender based on based on rumored information [TS]

  and things that were told by sources. [TS]

  I think there is technically a room [TS]

  but like in the aesthetic design if you don't want to sort of compromise that is there's the region that is [TS]

  perpendicular to the surface of the table [TS]

  and that region is smaller than the with of the things so with wise is plenty of room [TS]

  but is there room in the perpendicular area. I feel like there's nothing room. [TS]

  The very least you could do is you know one on one side and on the other or something like that [TS]

  but two ports is so much better than one because two ports get is the average person the ability to do something [TS]

  reasonable. [TS]

  Without engaging the sort of squid [TS]

  or octopus of cables that the snake out of the because it's like oh I have one thing plugged in [TS]

  and I had to do some other things like I just had to put in the little thumb drive help them drive there have U.S.B. [TS]

  Type C. Connectors but right. Well something. Some really common. Power. [TS]

  And an i Phone or like a mouse about a mouse and something else. [TS]

  I mean and you know and a lot of people of argued Yeah there's a lot of wireless mouse might have there [TS]

  and yes that's true as Bluetooth liason the but somehow the R.F. [TS]

  Donal's Yeah yeah exactly and but I mean just sit the simplest thing when like when I'm when I'm traveling somewhere. [TS]

  I always have devices pulled into the U.S.B. Port on my laptop and usually it's charging eyeless devices. [TS]

  So I mean if I just I just don't understand. I don't quite understand the thoughts offical statement that will be made. [TS]

  I understand a false offical statement was made by only having U.S.P. Type seaports. And by having it be fanless. [TS]

  Having used the Coram and like. I understand the statement of this machine. Right. But only having one of them. [TS]

  I don't understand the extra thing you would be getting from. You know the. [TS]

  This is a a a thin super lightweight machine it's almost been is an i Pad. [TS]

  It's very simple there's no fans and is not amazing like. [TS]

  Even if they went with like we're not going to run a screen because we can't because because we wanted to go with this [TS]

  low power family his line I would even be OK with that just like that is wholly what this machine is about. [TS]

  But nothing about having only one U.S.B. Cord again putting aside mag say nothing about only have one U.S.B. [TS]

  Port makes a statement to me that I find that has any value. [TS]

  Aesthetically practically speaking [TS]

  or in any other way unless it was like we couldn't do two because of power constraints [TS]

  but I don't think of the cases I've seen other laptops of the. You know the same. [TS]

  What we think of the same chips at the might be in something like this and they aren't as a compromise. [TS]

  So I am baffled by the single part rumor [TS]

  and I hope it is a just a misunderstanding of the Hope it's all a big misunderstanding. [TS]

  So I agree with you that I think throwing away mag safe. Is a very dubious choice. [TS]

  But let's let's just assume that they make that choice and it really is what this render shows which is just one. [TS]

  Lightning ask. Connector. [TS]

  Which by the way I'm not entirely sure why they wouldn't use Lightning I guess because of all the power [TS]

  and all the other things that this US P.C. Can do they need they need to carry a display over it right all that stuff. [TS]

  So. But regardless so we only have this one U.S.B. Type C. and Headphone. [TS]

  I keep trying to think about and I haven't had the time to come up with a good answer. [TS]

  But I keep trying to think about what. What has Apple done lately. That would enable this computer to exist. [TS]

  So for example. Air drop between computers that. Hypothetically if it ever freaking works. [TS]

  Hey Marco Have you ever talked about things not working anyway. You know if it ever works. [TS]

  Airdrop could be the solution that that makes U.S.B. Keys. Obsolete. [TS]

  And that's just one very silly example let's take another you you guys mentioned Bluetooth. Specifically for mice. [TS]

  You know I use a Bluetooth mouse. And so I don't need to plug in one of those little R.F. [TS]

  Dongles although pretty much everyone at work. Does exactly that plug in and are often go. [TS]

  So if you leave aside a secondary display which admittedly in a lot of context is very important. And if. [TS]

  If you assume that we can do basic U.S.B. Key style things with air drop or equivalent. [TS]

  What do you really need a bunch U.S.B. Ports for. [TS]

  I mean charging is a great example to Marcos point [TS]

  but that's kind of hurt so it's really a rhetorical question what I'm driving at is if you think of this. [TS]

  More like an i Pad that happens to have a keyboard and maybe even runs O.-S. Ten. [TS]

  Then you do a complete traditional computer. What do you really need those ports for. I think it's more. [TS]

  It's not so much like. What do you need them for like that you desperately want them it's that. Taking it away. [TS]

  It shouldn't be taken away unless there's a reason. [TS]

  And there's lots of reasons we were gone through which may be true like you know it could be a power issue [TS]

  and it's like well you know it is that that the smallness the fan lessness you know that the light is this machine is [TS]

  the reasons why we couldn't make this machine the way it is that the point that would be a reason I don't think it's a [TS]

  it's actually true in this case but that would be one reason. [TS]

  And the other could be some aesthetic or philosophical statement that you're making which I don't understand. [TS]

  But it in the absence of any good reason to not have it. Like just put it on that because it's so can you know. [TS]

  One is just it's just too few. Like why why just. Why not just have none at that point. [TS]

  Right because not that you need to all the time of a lot of people do need to all the time. [TS]

  But you want to have the one that you're using and the X. Your one for the for the other thing that you want to do you. [TS]

  Because the statement is a machine ultra portability convenience [TS]

  and everything is massively compromised by having to carry a satchel with you know a rat's nest of cables [TS]

  and like that. That hurts the message or the machine doesn't help. [TS]

  But what do you plugging in that's what I don't understand but I rarely mention like U.S.B. [TS]

  Key type things are Afghan girls. Already those. [TS]

  You know if you have an art Don Gonyea speaking you've got two ports felt. Just to do your work but but you've already. [TS]

  You've already failed. By my point is if you're using an R.F. Dongle or if you're using a U.S.B. Key. [TS]

  This is already not the computer for you but I mean I think those things are people be doing I have a portable mouse. [TS]

  You know. And it has just about R.F. Down on it's not Bluetooth. Right. And I have a U.S.B. [TS]

  Key and I want to use I'm outside of my work and part of my work involves taking as he was speaking from work [TS]

  and shoving endpoint files on it. [TS]

  And I can't do that without plugging my mouse it's like well why am I even bothering to use a mouse [TS]

  and never shall get a weird dongle adapter tighten like that is not a crazy scenario people who use use the laptop. [TS]

  Use mice with their laptops [TS]

  and to you know be the mouse is basically like that becomes like that port is taken all the time because I always use [TS]

  the mouse event on my little tray table is not because I hate trackpad or something. And by. The way I have a U.S.B. [TS]

  Key sometimes. It's already to port them you haven't done anything exotic like plugged in a portable hard drive or. [TS]

  You know plugged in an optical thing or something like like. [TS]

  Unless you're saying is this can't be a person's primary mac which would definitely be a first for any laptop that [TS]

  Apple has ever made they've always said you know there may be compromise for this but this can be your only mac. [TS]

  Because you can get everything done that you want to get done and it without. It's beget he's nest in a hub. [TS]

  Coming off of the thing with one port. I think that. [TS]

  That hurts the intended message of the machine as a tiny can be a little thing with not communion anymore [TS]

  when you have to come along with a bunch of accessories. [TS]

  We se but I disagree I think what it is is that your to your viewing this against a traditional computer. [TS]

  Which is the same problem I had when I first saw it. But the more I think about it the more I think this is really a. [TS]

  If you want the best of the best mobile computing experience [TS]

  when you define best as thinnest lightest etc Maybe this is even arm for all we know who knows. But one way or another. [TS]

  You have to buy. [TS]

  All in on the fact that these are the compromises that you're going to have to deal with you're going to have to trade [TS]

  in that R.F. Mouse for U.S.B. Mouse. I mean for a bluetooth mouse. But why did you why do you have to deal with that. [TS]

  Why do you have to say you're going to have to I will accept it if I have to. [TS]

  But why do I have to there needs to be a reason. Would it not. Could it not have been this then if it had two ports. [TS]

  Like that's the question I want answered seems to me based on the smoke of the same product I mean that in the real [TS]

  that it could be that thing with two ports. And I don't think it's a power issue. [TS]

  I think you're right [TS]

  but it's the only analogy I can come back to is around the time that MAC started dropping optical drives. [TS]

  I was not a mac user when. [TS]

  When they dropped floppy drives but around the time they dropped optical drives [TS]

  and let me be clear the two max that I that I own both have optical drives when that happened [TS]

  when they started dropping them. [TS]

  I thought they were out of their damn minds in the same way that I think a lot of people said that about floppy drives. [TS]

  But as it turns out. [TS]

  I don't side of getting the crappy quality pictures of Declan when he came [TS]

  when he was born from the hospital photographer. [TS]

  I haven't really used an optical drive in ages I can't even remember the last time of used it with that one exception. [TS]

  So it really turns out that we don't really need. Optical drives anymore and I'm wondering that. [TS]

  Maybe we don't really need U.S.B. Drive. Ports on a regular basis anymore. [TS]

  And you know what if you really want to stick with that or if mouse in your work and. If you really want to throw U.S.B. [TS]

  Keys into your computer at work. Then you know what John you're right you're going to have to have that ugly ass U.S.B. [TS]

  Hub sitting there with all its little things falling out of it because that. [TS]

  That's what you're going to have to deal with. [TS]

  I think the optical drive and the floppy drive and I would add sealed [TS]

  and batteries are great examples to support my point because all those things had a reason. Optical drive. [TS]

  Like I was totally in support of that going because like. [TS]

  Look what you can see maybe not necessarily for the I'm makin because you could argue that it could hire out there a [TS]

  little longer before laptops Hell yes because you would look at what you can do [TS]

  when you get rid of that it was this giant that was taken up like a huge percentage of the case yes please get that out [TS]

  of their floppy drives like nobody likes floppy drives us be cuter place them like the message of the I'm back was like [TS]

  nope it's all U.S.B. There's no A.D.B. [TS]

  Stuff like that was a philosophical message expressed by sort of like the paring down of the variety of ports no more [TS]

  like printer port and serial port all as I was like old fallen face gone new style here [TS]

  but that in just include one of them right. When there's a reason you know the incorporated batteries again. [TS]

  Making the university not having the battery door now doing all the stuff like you got something in exchange for [TS]

  compromise in a lot of people are angry about those things I really wasn't because I saw what I was getting for it with [TS]

  one part. I don't understand what I'm getting for it and that's my complaint about it in a moment. [TS]

  I'm not saying you're wrong. [TS]

  Really what I'm what I'm thinking is what if this is as you said a philosophical statement that you shouldn't need [TS]

  U.S.B. Anymore we're beyond that now. And I know. [TS]

  Oh that sounds kind of insane because even I think it sounds kind of insane all the why not put the euro. [TS]

  Like that would be a state. [TS]

  Because you need some sort of charge so i Pad put zero on it and people are upset about that [TS]

  and that was definitely a statement this is not a device that you're on Connect peripheral stuff. Yeah. [TS]

  It's a fair it's a fair point I don't mark a word you come down on all this. You know if you think about one. [TS]

  When the very first. Mac book Air came out and looked to have an eight was it was around two thousand and eight. [TS]

  It had a lot of these limitations. A lot of imitation is that a net. No computer. Even by Apple had that point yet. [TS]

  And it was. I mean I had one and it was it was pretty clunky they were it was pretty frustrating to use. [TS]

  It had one U.S.B. Port. And one display and one headphone and one power. But you know display never use headphones. [TS]

  So you base your had one U.S.B. Port and. That was so annoying. I hit the limitations on that constantly. [TS]

  You know these days. It's different these days. [TS]

  One of the biggest differences that wireless networking is a lot faster you know that I believe came with it to eleven. [TS]

  G. And the port on it. Like I have one little why are you going to Donal's for it. But the porters only U.S.B. Two. [TS]

  And that was the even song was only ten one hundred and. And of course the disk in it I didn't have the S.D. [TS]

  That was way too expensive. The home Ashima domestic C.B. [TS]

  With throttle down and everything to go to hot yep yep [TS]

  and the disk I had heard the the one point eight inch hard drive was so incredibly slow. [TS]

  And so like transferring files to and from it was excruciating. It took so long. Whether it was wired or wireless. [TS]

  It barely even mattered. It would just took forever. And having only that one U.S.B. [TS]

  Port even back then into those An even when I only had an i Phone when there were no i Pads yet. [TS]

  And I wasn't like you know because these are YOU CAN ALSO LIKE IF you. If you have a camera. [TS]

  Most cameras will charge over U.S.B. Now. So if there's so many devices have charged to rehearse be. [TS]

  And this is before a lot of extra hard drives are very common I mean really these days. [TS]

  As you know in some ways you know if you report in some ways any more ports. [TS]

  And I just remember how incredibly frustrating that was back then there's a reason why the next generation of MacBook [TS]

  Air added I believe that to ports right now I'm looking at one right now it has one of the left one of the right about [TS]

  the most importantly the port does not double as the power connector on the manhunt fiercely so that's that's the [TS]

  second issue which we did put aside but I would bring it back [TS]

  when it comes to like the reality of this thing it's like one port is one thing but one part that's also power. [TS]

  I really need to be convinced that it is able to fill the role the bank safe does in terms of tripping over power cable. [TS]

  You know so having owned that first air. It was increased risk. Limiting and frustrating in a lot of ways. [TS]

  That being said it was amazing because of how incredibly thin and light it was for the time. [TS]

  And it was a giant leap forward for that time. And eventually once. [TS]

  Once the the new one came out I think in two thousand and ten when they when they made the the university the good one. [TS]

  Well the the from who wanted to anyway. [TS]

  When they revise it made and made the good one that we all know now is the mac book air that generation. [TS]

  They fix a lot of it and one of the biggest in the fix was they all had S.S.D. If they were really fast and so anyway. [TS]

  If this is a this is a major leap forward. In some way or in some ways. [TS]

  Then we're going to overlook the one port thing if that's real. [TS]

  You know if we're going to overlook that we're going to tolerate it. But the first mac book air. To achieve that. [TS]

  Wow factor and these couple areas that also probably shouldn't have been anybody's only computer. And so. [TS]

  And so this isn't the first on they've done this. You know they they don't do it often. [TS]

  But that this isn't the first time they've done it. They beat everybody with network air though. [TS]

  Because they had Intel make that special. [TS]

  I think it was a dice shrink [TS]

  or whatever was some some special ship made for them that meant they were the first one our it wasn't even so I think [TS]

  it was literally a smaller package around the same chip whatever it was like they were they were able to come of the [TS]

  machines other people than I was there was the first university which other people didn't have it was also. [TS]

  You know the first laptop that you could make this ridiculously thin putting in the Ombudsman everything because they [TS]

  had the special chip and all that. That's not the case with us as already. You know P.C. [TS]

  Notebooks out that use the same chipsets that are available today that are not as elegant and everything [TS]

  but there they are similarly reaping the same adventures that Apple is going to get here because there are the on the [TS]

  mark with the same chipsets Apple excuse [TS]

  or at least being reviewed because I've read reviews them on site so they don't quite have the same. [TS]

  Then they don't have the opportunity to do what they did with the air. [TS]

  Or even I would say with the I'm activists point because this rumor design is a symbol of illusion of what they have [TS]

  it's Than or it's lighter it's everything so and so forth but it's not going to be the first to market. [TS]

  And I don't think they have a special. Maybe they have a special ships that in terms of the G.P.U. [TS]

  If it ends up being retina. [TS]

  And maybe will be the press red [TS]

  and one on the screen which is another wild card as Marvel doesn't say anything about whether the rim of things will [TS]

  see retina but I understand what you're saying but I would. [TS]

  I would not hold up the first mac book air as a model to be repeated because I think in the end that machine was not [TS]

  really a failure [TS]

  but it was bad enough that real always be remembered as one of those machines like oh yeah I got one of those [TS]

  and it was kind of neat [TS]

  but boy like ever wondered has their stories about like what the story's basically the next one that was the one that [TS]

  was actually good. [TS]

  No I mean and I think that I think that she was a failure like I would be harder on it having owned one. [TS]

  I think it was a failure I really like that machine we had an extremely love hate relationship. [TS]

  But but you know these days. The technology is better. In. Really important ways. [TS]

  Number one being as his deeds are now very cheap and you know relatively speaking. That now S.D.S. [TS]

  Can be in all of them so they can be fast and Wireless is faster so that alleviates lot of the I O. [TS]

  Bottleneck in and out of that machine that bothered me so much. So this guy. [TS]

  If this machine Israel I think this could be good. One of my biggest concerns though is. [TS]

  Once again it seems like there prioritizing thinness to an unnecessary degree. At the likely expense of battery life. [TS]

  So looking at this machine. If these. If the you specs are even close to true. It is extremely thin. And it's. [TS]

  And it allegedly still maintains the teardrop tapered shape. [TS]

  Which means we're going to be very little room for much battery in there and if they go in for light weight again. [TS]

  Not a lot of weight budget for battery either. So even if in with a very low power chip. [TS]

  You still have a big screen and radios. [TS]

  They might have got some space back because again in a fantasy machine is rumors they're saying that the trackpad is [TS]

  not a mechanical click down I don't understand what it is though [TS]

  but if it doesn't go down well it's like the stupid tactic like that all track that's how that we all turn off. [TS]

  Is it or is it like pressures [TS]

  and Anyway whatever they're saying it seems like they're saying that narrow there may be a sliver of extra room under [TS]

  the track that it wasn't there before because you don't need empty space for the trackpad to pivot down into where the [TS]

  saying about the that about the truck to the keyboard I thought they might have been saying it about the keyboard. [TS]

  No it's a the trackpad doesn't click down anymore like you like and presumably you just have to tap it. [TS]

  I was wondering if it was pressure sensitive or something but I mean I'm mostly on bbs machine [TS]

  but my two big things are mags A for an Omega safe and and. Give me a reason why there's not more than one port. [TS]

  That's not a philosophical reason because I mean that's another thing I thought would be the benefit of the U.S.B. [TS]

  Type see connector. They're smaller and. [TS]

  You can now you can fit more of them like they're not monstrous things where it's like you could on the original air [TS]

  they have it within like the fold down little things they couldn't even if it was on like Johnny's nice curve shape yet [TS]

  a little like flap door that would flap open it was. And they get they got over that it's like. [TS]

  It's like pop up headlights. Yeah exactly like I was you know. [TS]

  It was a thing in the end it feels like you know it just like once they have technology to make a decent life [TS]

  and not have them pop up they did it and so like you know. What else about this in the space gray. [TS]

  Coming in color something on all of our But that. Yeah I would love a space great. Apple laptop in the BE AWESOME. [TS]

  Overall I think it's going to be. It is really interesting. I think though. I am definitely concerned. [TS]

  Not about all these other factors not about the. [TS]

  The port as much I am mostly concerned about battery life that they have prioritized than this too much. [TS]

  And that there won't be very good battery life in this because you know just the listing eleven inch MacBook Air. [TS]

  Does not have a battery life. It is much better on the thirteen and because I have more space for a battery. [TS]

  I think that if the if you take this machine and you just don't give it a teardrop shape. [TS]

  Just make it uniform thickness the way the retina. Thirteen to fifteen or even if it's dinner. [TS]

  If it is uniform across the whole thing. [TS]

  That leaves surprisingly large amount of volume for batteries in there and I hope they do that but I bet they won't. [TS]

  You know. So I have a quick thought and then a question. A quick thought is. What if the brick. [TS]

  That is plugging into this one U.S.B. Port. Has U.S.B. Ports on it doesn't help you because under your desk. [TS]

  Yeah I mean. And yes we know about the plug bug please stop emailing us. [TS]

  Stop right there let me stop your email right there. That's not have a people do though. [TS]

  Like the plug is not like [TS]

  when you're in a hotel who knows where the plug is on your desk the plug is not always up like. It's a different place. [TS]

  People end up using you know people more be more like to use a powered hub. [TS]

  I mean it's possible now the other question I have is could this be the first our mac.. [TS]

  So that's a good question I think if you look at the i Pad Air two C.P.U. The eight X. [TS]

  And you look at the the benchmarks from the new family score am chips that that would be simply the chip to be used in [TS]

  the thing. They're pretty close. Actually like they're they're similar in performance that. You know there are. [TS]

  I think the UNTIL ONE The Until one is faster single threaded. But not by a massive amount. [TS]

  You know that they're in the same ballpark. [TS]

  The big question to me is why would they go armed so no question they could if they wanted to they could ship in our [TS]

  mac they could compile everything from arm. [TS]

  And they could require developers to cross compile for the mac app store and everything. [TS]

  Didn't choke point out it was like a merry today as well like. If there was going to be arm. [TS]

  They would have to have something like the you know the Intel Developer Program where they shipped out like. [TS]

  You know G five. Power my cases with Pentium four is inside them to let people. You know like any C.P.U. [TS]

  Transition needs developers on board so that is the case you would expect that transition to proceed the release of the [TS]

  machines in the scheduling. If this leak is and in any way real. And we and we expect this machine to see Year. [TS]

  When are you going to tell developers by the way you're going to cross involve are merely crappy after the timing seems [TS]

  wrong to me for that to be the case. But anyway go on with the feasibility. Yeah well I mean. But again like. [TS]

  Well I think it will be less work this time because like you know developers are been dragged through one transition. [TS]

  We are not only already familiar with arm for my US [TS]

  but in these days developers like by going through the first transition a lot developers move their code to more [TS]

  portable code. And so they I think I think it will be a much less involved transition for developers and. I think the. [TS]

  The days of Apple. Having some kind of prerelease developer hardware program. I think that's your car. [TS]

  Pretty pretty far gone. And I think the way they would do this would be the same way when they when they have like. [TS]

  You know new i Pad some of the same with going to the watch like didn't ship a watch to everyone for watching the going [TS]

  to happen. You know they're going to they're going to let you submit apps. [TS]

  Two weeks ahead of time before Christmas goes on sale. [TS]

  But you have all that you have existing software the like in the case of those things you didn't like you have all [TS]

  these existing mag out to you have to decide if you're going to like a fat binary thing [TS]

  and if you aren't as the to recombine other things as that binary is [TS]

  and you have to decide whether his going to be a transition [TS]

  or constant parallel thing because his goods are maybe for this machine. [TS]

  Still can't compete with the high end machines so it's very nice you're going to still have this giant to back progress [TS]

  not going to have an ARM processor and. [TS]

  And then you're just going to have two processes forever and like there's errors. [TS]

  I think they can definitely make a machine with ARM Prosser The Doesn't it would be reasonably satisfactory [TS]

  but all the ancillary bookkeeping [TS]

  and strategic things don't quite get make sense to me I don't understand what they would come out on stage [TS]

  and say is the reason they're doing this. [TS]

  Unless they try to say it because it can be super low power it's like it would be lower power. [TS]

  But it wouldn't suddenly become an i Pad right. [TS]

  You wouldn't suddenly get twenty four hour battery life where you where you were with with the. [TS]

  Same Intel chip you have gotten. You know five or seven like. It's not going to be that big of a difference. [TS]

  But I mean for me the biggest thing is I have no question they could do this I have no question they could give [TS]

  developers very little notice and we would all just jump. [TS]

  And just do it or not we are not a matter of Alper but they would all jump [TS]

  and just do it because it wouldn't be that much work for most of them. [TS]

  My big thing is same thing as about the ports why. Because there would be a substantial cost to it in. [TS]

  During the transition first of all. [TS]

  Couldn't run boot camp anymore and you couldn't virtualize windows anymore that's a big problem for a lot of people. [TS]

  Once again. I think you know go back to the early discussion. [TS]

  This couldn't be your only mac if you do use Windows apps. [TS]

  But you know maybe it could be your travel Makar maybe for a lot of us myself included who don't ever run Windows apps. [TS]

  They can do it but there are certainly a lot of people need windows so that it would lose the support of all of them. [TS]

  For the transition period however long it is before. Most of the apps are all the apps you use. Are compiled for arm. [TS]

  How do you run Intel apps. Is there some kind of Rosetta layer because the problem is like when you went from Power P.C. [TS]

  To Intel. There was also a massive performance jump. [TS]

  I like that you said we've been through one transition before and I know you've been there many. [TS]

  Yes I know it but you're right I distrust your point every time there's been a transition. [TS]

  There's been some kind of bandage like a. It's a clear transition. This is old that's new. [TS]

  Which would not be the case with arm because you'd be like What the hell. [TS]

  What's your story for the macro you're going to go over that crazy twelve Koran browser where is that anyway. [TS]

  Wouldn't even be a transition and be every time there has been transition. [TS]

  It's been some way for you to keep using your crap. In the short term. [TS]

  And it was usable because the transition came with a big performance boost. [TS]

  Whereas in this case if you're going from Intel to arm. [TS]

  It's actually a little bit slower [TS]

  and possibly a little harder gives not forking out a meaningless until setting for you exactly. [TS]

  So you're not going to have. I've extremely. You know good enough. [TS]

  You know I can have good enough and you'll a sion speaker [TS]

  or translation speed of an intel binary run arm laptop like that's that's going to suck. And be either. [TS]

  Either not available at all or be pretty slow and probably unusable for a lot of people so I just I don't. [TS]

  I don't see why it makes sense to have this be arm. As long as Intel chips can get close enough. [TS]

  In power usage [TS]

  and I think the I think they with the core am I think we're seeing they pretty much can like not the arm and leg [TS]

  and hugely behind with the transition costs of of switching are. [TS]

  There's no clear reason right now why they need to me that transition there's no there's no massive gain to be had on [TS]

  the other side that we can see right now. [TS]

  Long term there might be and they might choose to make that transition at some other time. [TS]

  But and for for instance one of the biggest gains could be. [TS]

  I [TS]

  but Apple's pretty sore with until right now because of the Broadwell delays have been delayed Apple's entire product line. [TS]

  It's not so much of the store with them they just like the long term strategic advantage would be a good example on [TS]

  stone [TS]

  and control of the major technology is the blood of all the blood like that whole thing that's why because they can [TS]

  make that switch any time they want. I mean yeah yeah just are sometimes are like. If that like. [TS]

  If they did if they CAN I was in our machine. I think the message would be that this may be a longer transition. [TS]

  But it will be a transition and eventually every single piece of hardware Apple sells will have an ARM C.B. [TS]

  You designed by Apple in fad by our rabble can get to fab for them like that would be the long term vision is like [TS]

  short term who are going to suck for you because all for all there is a market is that it's not going to be able to [TS]

  emulate your stuff it's not going to be a huge increase in performance in fact it might be a dip. [TS]

  But long term it's important for Apple the company to own [TS]

  or control the major technology of the contributors products and Bob Law. [TS]

  And that's a crappy message because you're like I don't care about Apple's long term strategy as some good products now. [TS]

  Right and so. [TS]

  And it's not like Apple needs to do this to save itself from destruction like well I understand you gotta do what you [TS]

  gotta do Apple. I still I would still be like I was simply working with Intel. Working on Intel. [TS]

  Maybe by Intel if you have to like whatever you got a lot of money. Work something out because. Switching to arm. [TS]

  Would be short term as in like the next few years. Not so great for Apple's customers and. [TS]

  Maybe this is not the best time to be doing that all right thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week. [TS]

  Casper hover an automatic. And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. [TS]

  They didn't even mean to be as it was accidental. It was accidental. John because it was that death was accidental. [TS]

  And you didn't he. [TS]

  Well it says so that's keep lists and the team article says the risk you need to hire an editor or something. [TS]

  Weren't you an editor of Fortune editor for a while is that all that work. You can't be your own editor. [TS]

  I know I'm just I was senator for like five minutes and you could be your own editor. You can. [TS]

  You could be your own editor. [TS]

  And I quit that's part of the experience of being a blogger it's like you don't have a staff. [TS]

  Like you don't have people doing other stuff or you're doing it all. [TS]

  You're writing your conceptualized new thing you're assigned to yourself you're writing it you're editing your copy [TS]

  editing you're putting into the C.M.S. You're running the web. Like you're doing the whole thing. [TS]

  So I feel I mean you can't do as good a job as all of us an entire staff [TS]

  but you don't want to have an entire step with part of the whole blogging things so I mean it's. [TS]

  If you look at things you have written recently go back to things. Hero before you. The system is working as designed. [TS]