0:00:00So I should start the show by pointing out that it is fourteen degrees outside here in the place that does not have
0:00:07winter. Are you still stuck on this right here let slip my my throat is reading thirteen point eight.
0:00:14So we are clearly colder the new we have winter you don't.
0:00:17I'm twelve here get His know those two cents of those two point two degrees man. There killer..
0:00:24Right now that I got that out of the way. Do you understand follow up what we do. Let's talk about FS L.
0:00:32So we have a couple of more pieces of interesting news flash feedback with regard to whether
0:00:38or not you really need a cell for just plain old websites that don't really do anything interactive David Walken wrote
0:00:45in and said regarding us to sell everywhere.
0:00:47Mostly just Nephi on this is a demand for decently sized charter school in California
0:00:51and I can tell you from experience that H.T.T.P. S.
0:00:54Wreaks havoc with the constant filters that we are required to have in place. I love the idea of cheap or free S.S.L.
0:01:00Certs and more security in general but it's also going to make my life miserable.
0:01:05Trying to keep students from doing content that they shouldn't.
0:01:08And that's kind of unfortunate that schools have to filter everything but I totally understand it.
0:01:14And that's actually an interesting point that I hadn't considered before.
0:01:18Now that it's going to the same thing that discussed last week to force everyone to have a certificate to manage
0:01:22military and everybody else on the school's Internet and. You know what happens in corporate settings.
0:01:27It happens in schools all the time and as we learned from many other people had the same back
0:01:31and in attach a name to it in the notes because so many people sent it.
0:01:33They were showing examples of Go-Go's in-flight Internet.
0:01:36Issuing its own certificate so that it can men in the middle you.
0:01:40Because once your browser trudges trusted certificate it acts as an S.S.L.
0:01:43Proxy decrypts everything see there are all the traffic that goes through and who knows what else it does.
0:01:48So this is definitely a thing it happens in all sorts of places it happens on plain wife I happens in academic settings
0:01:56happens in corporate settings. Yeah but the wonders of S.S.L. Is not the fault of a cell but it's like.
0:02:04People want to see your data. And if you try to use the cell to stop them from seeing your data.
0:02:08If you wander into an environment where they say No really. We need to see your data. They'll see your data. Yep.
0:02:14Well and I think this is one of those cases where like.
0:02:16You know you can't have it both ways if you want to have complete control over what gets viewed over your network
0:02:22and you want to spy on people or filter it. Unique control over those devices.
0:02:26So that you can do things like install your own certificates. You know via I.T. Policy and you know group installation.
0:02:32Methods stuff like that where you know you can have a coffee shop and B.
0:02:37and Say are you can take your laptop in here whatever you want browsing whatever you want.
0:02:40And then be spying on that without their knowledge you know that's that's no good.
0:02:43So I think this is actually of a perfectly fine balance I don't think we're going to cause trouble for schools
0:02:47everywhere. To a degree that it's work not doing it.
0:02:50Yeah I mean and like the GO thing is doing schools could do something similar if you're basically you try to foist.
0:02:56The certificate on the people who are on your net we're going to look if you want to be on our network.
0:03:01The prices you have to use a civic and trust and so we can feel your content.
0:03:04I'm not quite sure what the state of filtering in an academic setting is the that I understand why it would be a thing
0:03:10that people want to do but it seems to me that it's.
0:03:14Basically impossible to stop what they're trying to stop as students are seeing things inappropriate
0:03:20and what students trying to do is see an appropriate things. And if the students are one hundred percent going to win.
0:03:25Yep like you cannot stop them. Right but I understand that it's like well just because we can't stop them.
0:03:30Doesn't mean we shouldn't try because not trying so I don't know I don't know what the correct solution there is
0:03:35but technically speaking as one of those situations where you're not going to win. Well plus.
0:03:40I mean not to get too creepy about it but like I think.
0:03:43By the time a lot of kids are old enough to start seeking out bad things on the Internet.
0:03:48There's a pretty good chance these days they probably have their own smartphone. With a data plan.
0:03:53Yep and Verizon all it's doing is tracking the putting in a tracker and all there is if you're.
0:03:59It's funny guys bring up schools. Again because when Aaron first started teaching.
0:04:05She wanted to be able to do something simple like look at G. Mail. When she was it working at the time it was filtered.
0:04:11And I think when she had left at the end of this past school year.
0:04:16Teachers were afforded more privileges than the students were.
0:04:20But when she first started that was in the case
0:04:22and so I vividly remember getting into a like several months long game of chicken.
0:04:28Where I set up I think was like a Sox proxy on a little Linux server I had at the house.
0:04:33And she was using after a while in the neck up locked and so then I moved the socks proxy
0:04:38or whatever it was it doesn't really matter I move the proxy.
0:04:40On See you like a standard port number like twenty five
0:04:44or something like that of my time in the exchange port number whatever that was.
0:04:47But then that eventually got blocked
0:04:49and that was around the time that that they started giving the teachers more privileges.
0:04:53But there were other few other steps that I don't remember in this process
0:04:56but we were definitely playing this like cat and mouse game Ian.
0:04:59Well maybe it wasn't just me because I think her students were doing it too to John's point.
0:05:03But the plane is kind mouse game for first several months trying to get Aaron access to not just regular things like G.
0:05:10Mail these weren't nefarious things. But eventually it ended up that the overlords one.
0:05:16And they just allowed the teachers to have a little bit more math. More access.
0:05:21Yeah I mean anyone who's ever worked with one of these content filters and try to get any work done.
0:05:27Has usually aren't a problem like this where like a stance a bully it's a good idea to help keep you working
0:05:32and keep you on track and there are situations where that work somewhere that has been successful
0:05:36but there's also a lot of situations where like the filter is actually keeping people from.
0:05:42Not only doing harmless things like checking their G. Mail every once in awhile a work.
0:05:46But also actually keeping them from doing their jobs properly.
0:05:48Like if you have to be researching things on the internet for as part of your job or looking applying for a paper
0:05:53and some of these A so many sites are blocked and they it's.
0:05:55It's there are so many situations where these content filters are actively harmful to what's trying to get done in the
0:06:01office. That they're trying to protect. Yeah.
0:06:04It's absolutely true and in errands case there were a lot of You Tube videos that she would use during classes.
0:06:11About all sorts of various and different things. Aaron was a high school biology teacher.
0:06:15And she couldn't even do that for the longest time because You Tube was carte blanche filtered entirely.
0:06:22And again you know over time the teachers got more access than she could do this again
0:06:26but your point is absolutely right Marco that.
0:06:29It's not always about nefarious things it's not always about slacking off sometimes it's really justifiable use but
0:06:35when the. The thing that's preventing you access is completely algorithmic and not like curated or whatever.
0:06:42That's what's going to happen.
0:06:44Yeah I mean You Tube is a massive resource for teachers like that cannot be overstated like You Tube is an incredible
0:06:50resource for teachers. And moving on to other follow up.
0:06:54I should sort of kind of apologize to Marco in that I lead you astray. Last episode.
0:07:02With regard to your question about well could I just do my feet polar which will hopefully talk about a little bit
0:07:07later. Could I just do that in C. Sharp and I said when a going after run all by S.
0:07:12and All of a speed and then blah blah blah it's really not worth it
0:07:14and Frank Kruger pointed out some me that I think it's called S.P. Net.
0:07:19The next or something like that that's probably wrong to don't email me.
0:07:23But anyway the upcoming or currently out I guess version of S.P. Down at they actually have.
0:07:28I guess it's binary for all sorts different platforms. And so you wouldn't necessarily need to run the full stack on.
0:07:36You know some D.P.S. Somewhere. And the other thing I didn't consider days you probably wouldn't need I-S.
0:07:41Anyway you can. You could just write a console app that in turn reaches out to the Internet.
0:07:46But if you're calling it locally or. You know via some some end point locally. You may not even need I-S.
0:07:53It all and I know this is kind of irrelevant but for the three. S.P.
0:07:57Dot net developers that are listening my apologies to you for leading Marco astray
0:08:02and Marco should you ever decide to give up on your beloved go feed crawl or sink or whatever guy.
0:08:09Let me know when all such up with some C. Sharp stuff.
0:08:11Not see what you missed your chance this is your one window behind me to learn a new language once a decade
0:08:17and this is this is your one window that you could have gotten me to try a Microsoft language note.
0:08:21Not going to do it I know it's all over. I quit. It's all your fault. Don't think that.
0:08:26I don't think that it was the right answer for you for this particular problem
0:08:29but I stand by that if you ever for some whatever reason. How to chance to really learn C.
0:08:35Sharp I really do you think you'd like it a lot but at this point I honestly don't know why.
0:08:39Why you would try it like leave aside my own allegiances I don't think it makes sense for you at all but anyway.
0:08:45You could have. If I hadn't failed you miserably. And that kind of segues into. You.
0:08:51Why don't you tell us a quick update on your feed poll Are you a tweeted a day or two ago now that you.
0:08:57Deployed to go feed polar this morning whatever that day was a few hours later I was able to confidently reduce the
0:09:03number of overcast V P S's. From thirteen to five. That's incredible.
0:09:08Yep that's right and I think I can even get to go down to four but it be cutting it a little bit closer.
0:09:12Probably not going to do it. But yes so.
0:09:16Last week I believe my status last week was I had written my ten lines of go code so I really didn't have anything
0:09:21going right is that true. That's about right if my. If my memory is correct.
0:09:25So I've been I've been trying it for about a week and I really like it.
0:09:28There's not much more to say I'm using it right now it is it is currently running on overcast it has replaced the
0:09:34P.H.P. Feed crawler So it hasn't replaced all the P.H.P. Feed processing. It has only done like the front end stuff.
0:09:42Of. Now P.H.P. Is no longer making network requests. So it's no longer waiting around for network requests.
0:09:49With all this process of nothing to do whaling around for curls so that is all now on go. Go is now fetching the pages.
0:09:57Every X. Seconds or whatever. And you know depending on certain conditions of hens and subscriber count.
0:10:02Latest error in any way. Fetches fetches all the feeds. And then when it finds a changed feed.
0:10:09It's stuff that feed into Read us. And a veggie P.H.P. Worker processes. Crawl that.
0:10:15So before I said it was two hundred forty. P.H.P. Processes that were doing all the crawling.
0:10:20Now it is one go process and eight P.H.P. Processes.
0:10:25And I probably don't even need those eight but I will see what happens there I bet I can get away with four
0:10:29but I probably just leave it at a just to have some headroom if there's like a bunch of. If there's a burst of updates.
0:10:34And that's roughly it so far. I like the language a lot now if neither of you two have done anything with it right.
0:10:41I have not. Nope. So it does. I mean obviously I am not one to learn new languages frequently.
0:10:50Looking at the landscape today the reason I chose go after after kind of running from note
0:10:55and by the way we heard from a lot of people about node. Trying to fix. Fix my memory leak and.
0:11:02There's a there's a bunch of nuance to how you call set Timeout.
0:11:05And what variables are in scope and whether you use a closure.
0:11:09Around it or named function
0:11:10or what you know what we're at whether you respond to a variable to all these little nuances.
0:11:14I have no doubt that the right person could look at this code and fix it for me. But as I said last week.
0:11:22You know no does it just doesn't fit me as well as as something I really want to want to invest a lot of time into it
0:11:30is not good enough it for me and in other ways besides this way so I lost interest in trying to fix this problem.
0:11:36Thank you know people I appreciate the week of your support. But please stop even when he correction.
0:11:43Because I've already stopped using the language. I'm sure it's fine for you or Merlin but that's it.
0:11:49Looking at everything else was available. I consider other things like you know Java Python.
0:11:54I was going to do a speed internet until case you talked me out of it last week. It's not really true.
0:11:59No not if I was it was never under consideration. It might become in the future you know Microsoft.
0:12:05There clearly investing very heavily in debt tools
0:12:08and trying to reach out to developers who are not right now Microsoft platforms I'm curious to see what they do in in
0:12:14those areas.
0:12:15Because one thing that almost all these languages lack is a really nice idea for MAC and or for anything really.
0:12:24I'm not entirely sure eclipse qualifies for that statement. No I've never used it.
0:12:29But from what I've seen of other people using it it has never been in a never appeared as though I want to use it..
0:12:35He said Nokia that roughly X.
0:12:37I haven't used it in years so I'm admittedly talking a little bit out of turn but any exposure.
0:12:43I've had to it in any exposure. I've had to it by way of other people talking about it.
0:12:48I cannot remember a time anyone said anything positive about Eclipse. So anyway.
0:12:53I would like to have a nice ID You know like I have one for X. Code for my native applications.
0:13:00I've never had one for web apps I have everywhere I have ever written has been written in like a text editor either vi
0:13:05a first or Text Mate later. So I've never had a nice tidy with like code completion and. And you know. Inline error.
0:13:12Description The never and never had that I would love that. Never had that. Never had the luxury of a real debugger.
0:13:18Wall writing web apps. That would also be nice. Never had it.
0:13:21And with all the new languages that I'm that I've been playing with her that I've been investigating.
0:13:26Almost none of them offer that in a reasonable way.
0:13:28So all that being said I might consider Microsoft off in the future depending on the direction they go with their tools.
0:13:36But right now it is not an owners that aeration. I looked at rust. And I looked at go and I read up I didn't.
0:13:42I didn't actually try writing any code in rust so you know that's a giant. Disclaimer at the beginning.
0:13:48I looked at both of those the.
0:13:49Those seem like the two that everyone said Orde with the third option of Python where everyone says heater do isn't
0:13:54part blankets go to this. Or do it in rust or go.
0:13:57There's a lot of debate between Rush people and go people about which one is better.
0:14:02And a few people have have tried both and have given given more useful opinions.
0:14:07Not a lot of written about it I haven't found a whole lot of posts about those.
0:14:11I think rust in the long term will probably be more common.
0:14:16It certainly has a long way to go it's still very much a beta
0:14:19and it shows in a lot of the documentation in the tools and everything it's not.
0:14:24It will clearly be a lot better in the future. But rust also seems very much. Very close to swift and C.
0:14:31Plus plus style of language preferences which really is not my style.
0:14:37It might become my style later on but it currently isn't just a whole like rusty.
0:14:41It just seemed like it added a quite a lot of complexity that I that conflicted with what I actually wanted.
0:14:47There are a lot of things about of I like.
0:14:49I like the idea of the mutability being part of the language that's of that's a big one. I really. I would love that.
0:14:55And I like some of the type tricks you can do. Most of them I wouldn't need. Go is a lot more basic.
0:15:03It's a lot smaller of a language. And not to say two hundred danced. But the.
0:15:10The things the language will do for you are much more limited. Most of the time.
0:15:14I fall on the side of the way they did it is one of the reason the chose to move forward with that language.
0:15:19Anyway so far. It is really nice. There's. There are parts about it that are weird. It is not like a clear.
0:15:27Oh my God this is perfect for every language. I can already tell.
0:15:31I'm probably not going to want to be writing the whole but appen this.
0:15:35If I was writing a new web app from scratch I would consider it. But it is.
0:15:40I don't think there's any reason for me to rewrite the whole overcast what happened go. You know just.
0:15:44I think I think it's a way for me to get rid of these hot spots. And it's about it.
0:15:48But there's Or it's a there's a lot to like there I really like it I'm glad I'm trying it.
0:15:52And I'm going to keep going with it where it makes sense to.
0:15:56So did you use a go routines and channels and everything for your. Yep. For your.
0:16:01You know what he called sort of a vent Looper placement type thing. Yeah. It's entirely their routines and channels.
0:16:06That's good I was best talking about like what the kind of event libraries where you go I knew they had some weird
0:16:10concurrency thing but I can remember what it was off the top my head. But that's. I mean for a small language.
0:16:16It's kind of a hog that was not odd but like it's this expresses the philosophy of go blind small.
0:16:22It's kind of like see it done better
0:16:23but they determined that that concerns the stuff was important enough to actually add to a language that otherwise
0:16:30being kept very small not says a lot about sort of the intended use of the language.
0:16:34And why I think it's probably a good fit for you know Google doing server side stuff and for you doing the polar.
0:16:39Yeah exactly. I mean. I love the concurrency stuff.
0:16:42Somebody I stated earlier this is genius somebody else somebody point actually a number he pointed out on Twitter
0:16:47earlier that this is not at all new. It's called Is it C.S.P.
0:16:52Concurrent sequential processes I think some way that it's a concurrency model to go uses communicating sequential
0:16:57processes that to thank you. Mitchy in the chat. So to me I like this model a lot it is not perfect.
0:17:04It seems more complicated. Once you get into Iraq as though this is actually really nice.
0:17:10There's a lot of concurrency baggage the usually have to worry about like walking
0:17:14and threading that you just don't need to really worry about. If you. If you do it the way you're supposed to do it.
0:17:20And it's really it's. It's easy to do things like earlier. I added. You know.
0:17:25And I for ever since the very beginning I had a limit on how many crawls can be running in parallel at any one time
0:17:33and that's very easy to do with channels.
0:17:35Just you know earlier tonight I added a second limit to how many per per host you can be running at once why don't have
0:17:42because earlier I crawled like all the feeds to a couple of big hosts
0:17:46and got blocked immediately like two thousand connections open one looked at it. So that one out the window.
0:17:54But that was really easy to add to like just. It's this quick little you know.
0:17:59Make make a channel for every host and here's an array of channels and.
0:18:03When he started push one onto it and when you and pop one off of it and here's the buffalo and that's it like it's.
0:18:07It's really for doing stuff like that this. This concurrency model is really nice. It.
0:18:13It is and what I like about it is that it is very new it is unlike any concurrency models I've worked with in the past.
0:18:20And so it is intellectually stimulating it is educational. And for this task it's really good. So you seem pleased.
0:18:28Overall yeah I mean other said.
0:18:29It is it is it does have weirdnesses to it like there are certain things about it I'm just like really.
0:18:35That like that's what I have to do or you don't support that.
0:18:39But you know the part of this is just me and the use of language.
0:18:42Ask me again in six months how it feels like his language. All right.
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0:21:26Note that we really not talking about it because we don't have to we talk about it if you want to mean I don't know
0:21:32that much more to say on it as so I wrote this blog post called Apple has lost a functional high ground.
0:21:39A title I'm regretting. Because I actually of all the complaints people had about the piece.
0:21:47I think the title was was probably the least valid complaint about it
0:21:51but I don't think the title was that far off the truth.
0:21:53Can you explain the title to me because that was the part that I was most confused on your post.
0:21:57So the title was you know the Apple has lost the functional high ground so this is a play on the concept of the moral
0:22:02high ground. I don't explain I do I know you don't display in the functional I got. So Apple stuff.
0:22:10You know it used to be that Apple stuff. Generally by a pretty long shot worked better than P.C. Slash Android.
0:22:20Slash other alternatives. You know people through on their.
0:22:24The phrase it just works as an article that was never one hundred percent true. But it was generally true it was.
0:22:32It was the general advantage that Apple's stuff had over their competitors that. It was just work better.
0:22:37The vast majority of the time. Certain things were more reliable. Simpler more robust cetera and.
0:22:45So this gave this gave Apple this.
0:22:47What I consider of the functional high ground in the past of like Apple stuff just work better and.
0:22:53And it worked so well that I think you could not necessarily hold it over P.C. People but the you knew.
0:22:59When you were using an Apple product like. Yeah I got a good one here.
0:23:03I got the thing that works best in this industry.
0:23:06I think they're there quality problems over the last few years
0:23:12when taken together have ruined this image for to a degree
0:23:15and so I don't necessarily mean that someone else has become better.
0:23:21And that's that's an argument Gruber has are going to fewer people brought up. I think you can lose.
0:23:27Like if you know what the moral high ground. I think you can lose the moral high ground.
0:23:31Even if no one else takes it from you like losing the moral high ground is like you used to be.
0:23:36You know really good morally you have a really good image or have earlier petition and you don't anymore.
0:23:41And so
0:23:42when I said losing the functional high ground what I meant was in that sense of like they used to have a greater petition
0:23:48for this. And now they don't. So I think in that way I think the title was actually pretty fair.
0:23:54What do you think I would have used the word functional.
0:23:56Because I think I was was throwing me now hearing your explanation I think my conception of it kept focusing more on
0:24:01the definition of functional maybe I would go with like reliability is not really over go on for it but anyway.
0:24:08I probably would have made a high ground knowledge title
0:24:10but down to do you explain that I understand what you're getting at that we can go on to the explaining the body of
0:24:15your thing because I think. I cut you off with the title part.
0:24:19Well but no that wasn't that was important because a lot of people argued about the title.
0:24:23And I do think the title was not really the bad part. You know that the part that I regret.
0:24:30Was the overall I'd maybe sensational maybe alarmist I don't know how to say it. So. So the post was basically saying.
0:24:39Apple stuff doesn't work very well anymore. I think the problem is the problem.
0:24:44You know I saw their hardware quality is fantastic recently with their software quality is really not.
0:24:49And every July I said it's taken a nosedive. That was. That's the word I regret the most because that.
0:24:56That kind of that that suggests the wrong. Excel or ation rate or trajectory of of the decline. Like.
0:25:04I think Apple software is on a steady decline.
0:25:08And it's been going that way for a while a nosedive is like a sudden drop.
0:25:12You know precariously you know perceptively whatever the right word of a sudden rapidly tolerating drop.
0:25:18I don't think that is what's happening. I think it's been a slow decline.
0:25:22And there's no signs of a turning around really definitely is a slow decline of their software quality
0:25:28and part of it is services quality worked in with that
0:25:31but I allot of it really just the software itself at the local software running on the on the on the machines which is
0:25:37really unfortunate. And so you know a few of the words like I said. I said riddled with bugs.
0:25:44I don't think it's riddled with bugs. It has bugs you know.
0:25:47There are certain words that are more severe than the need to be.
0:25:51But overall I stand by the the message that I was saying which is this stuff is not working as well as it used to it
0:25:58you know. Now we need to be very cautious when we install updates.
0:26:02And the fact is it used to be better and that worries me. My theory is that marketing priorities and again.
0:26:10It's important to point out the a fine distinction here. Not the marketing department.
0:26:15As some sites quoted as which I never said. Marketing priorities. At Apple. Seem to be dictating that the software.
0:26:24Must keep pace with the annual hardware releases. Or that there must be an annual software release.
0:26:30That has marketing value that helps the product with with cross marketing between different you know between the max
0:26:36and the i Phones
0:26:36and new i Phones come out of also all these new all these new software he believes that go along with brand new i OS X.
0:26:43and That was X. Meaning like energy or not not mispronouncing ten. With zero S. Ten. Anyway.
0:26:51My my opinion is that Apple quality has gone downhill in the last few years.
0:26:57And they should they shouldn't be keeping up with this.
0:27:02Like artificial and you will release schedule for major O.S.'s because that is just not.
0:27:07It's not producing good quality software you know it used to be like the. The ten point. X. Point zero. Releases.
0:27:15Although we have to like you know ten point X. Point three or four were sometimes on stable or at least had some bugs.
0:27:22Usually by the time you got to like ten point six point four five.
0:27:25It was pretty rock solid you could pretty much depend on it
0:27:28and then you know they were with some of the previous releases they would get all the way up to like you know Ted point
0:27:32X. Point seven eight or nine.
0:27:35Because they were just around for longer
0:27:37and so by the time like so there'd be a couple of months of instability at the beginning of a new US release.
0:27:42But then a few months in like you were fine and.
0:27:45It was rock stable fight the next eighteen months before there was really a new one.
0:27:50And now it seems like we're always using a one point zero or one point one.
0:27:56Like every release that we're using from Apple because they're the major of nature moving so quickly
0:28:01and get so many changes and each one. It's like. It's not like we're always using a beta. But it's close. It's.
0:28:09It's like we're always using a point zero or zero point one and.
0:28:13You feel that in a lot of ways
0:28:15and one of the errors I made was I didn't actually list any of those ways in this post but it's.
0:28:19It's almost there's too many to list. Glenn Pfeiffer murder really article today.
0:28:23He actually solicited people from Twitter that you know. Tell him like make me.
0:28:28Make me a list tell me all of things that are common problems for everybody.
0:28:31And he puts it a good thing I'll put in the show notes and. It's hard.
0:28:35There isn't like a one thing you know if somebody. If somebody asked me like a what.
0:28:39What one thing he's working on or you know one thing. Needs to be improved here.
0:28:44There is no one thing there are a million. Tiny things.
0:28:47And a few big things that just don't work very well or have bugs sometimes and.
0:28:55I don't you can't tell it's hard to tell if Apple. Think this is a problem.
0:29:00Or if they think the course they're on is OK. I remember when I talked about first of all. And I say.
0:29:07This is a bit interesting demonstration there's between pod casting and blocking.
0:29:11Because we have all three of us talked about all these things for like what is it over a year now I can see you know it
0:29:18is not as if this is a sudden realization the market woke up one day and said My God I mean.
0:29:22But when Mark says it on the podcast or with him progress nobody here that boat gets written down
0:29:26and you know it's part of his just like luck of the draw of like having to catch on and go viral or whatever
0:29:31but it is interesting to me that like if someone as a regular listener to the show
0:29:35and reads that blog post to be like Yeah I've heard Marcus said a million times.
0:29:39And so it's not it's not like a revelation but then suddenly you know I think that's that's a thing.
0:29:43I wasn't saying anything that I thought was particularly noteworthy like or original.
0:29:47It was almost like like those kind of things like this goes two ways both of us do this day and. Well.
0:29:51Back when I used to blog in cases like two ways where sometimes you know write something up on your site.
0:29:56And then you'll talk about it on the podcast
0:29:58and sometimes we'll talk about something on the podcast then after the body guess you'll sort of write up a centrally a
0:30:03more coherent summary of what was discussed in this.
0:30:06Definitely felt like you know after talking about this for weeks or months
0:30:10or whatever you call it was time for a blog post about it and you more
0:30:13or less summarize all of things that you'd said on on past August or whatever
0:30:16and I just felt like that thing you do where like.
0:30:18Sometimes it comes or is in the pocket some kind sourcing of like well talk about the matter stuff later
0:30:22but I just I just thought that was interesting. And speaking of podcasts.
0:30:25One of the things that people read that reminded me that existed because I'm old Never again I was hyper critical I was
0:30:32a fifty five.
0:30:33Region of pain which was back around the mountain lion talking about a mountain lion and maybe at the announcement
0:30:38or talking about him or view. The title comes from the idea that.
0:30:43Marco just articulated which is with yearly releases of my.
0:30:47What my word on that show was is the always going to have enough time to mature because the point I was there always
0:30:53crap. Right and then. Point one point two is like it takes a while to settle down. Right.
0:30:57And if you're going to happen. They're going to happen every year. It does do yearly releases. Give the O.-S.
0:31:03Enough time to settle down or are we always going to be in what I call the region of pain because it's always crap
0:31:09when THE POINT all comes out like no matter how long they hold it like you just you know it's.
0:31:13And is always some instability. Sometimes long sometimes short. That was in two thousand and twelve.
0:31:20The beginning of two thousand and twelve. At this point. I would say that we know for zero S. Ten. That the O. S.
0:31:26Does get out of the region of pain because we do reach the point four point five.
0:31:30But what Marco's thing was talking about is. All right we exit the region of pain.
0:31:36How long do we get in the nice part before it's not like they're run into each other it's not like it just bugs
0:31:42or not because Mavericks was not just like a total disaster right before you know seventy came out at least for most
0:31:48people I mean there are exceptions people that rise since I know this feature X. Never worked on Mavericks or my G.P.
0:31:52Always kernel back on Mavericks or whatever like.
0:31:55That is true and that has always happened and that's unfortunate but for most people like Mavericks had settled down.
0:32:02But how long did you get with the sell down Mavericks was it was it the majority of the year. Definitely not right.
0:32:08Was it. Less than half a year with a one month to month right. And that I think. When I'm looking at this.
0:32:14You know we've talked all the things before. The the change for Teague.
0:32:18Not just the bugs we take the bug to going but also the change for T. As in even if everything works perfectly.
0:32:25I don't know if I'm ready for everything to change how it works again like not everything
0:32:28but you know people who don't want to tie a change like the change for to combine with the sure.
0:32:34Very short periods of role of stability and calm.
0:32:38That I think more than like the quality of the software
0:32:41or any kind of metric you could put on it like number above Exe.
0:32:45In the point releases or number of bugs enough on releases or severity of bugs or anything like that.
0:32:50I think that more than anything. Characterizes the dissatisfaction I've heard from a lot of people about.
0:32:57Apple is that. Especially on the Mac. I want to talk about Iowa separate but the mac.
0:33:02Is different because on the mac I think the third thing that comes into the into this equation of change are to ignite
0:33:09a long time
0:33:10and at appears to belittle also the final question is Who are you chasing Who are you chasing with the Yearly Kos ten
0:33:16updates like why you feel like. All right. Android Samsung. You've got people bring down your neck.
0:33:23It's an exploding market. It's super competitive.
0:33:26You've got to do what you got to do
0:33:27and that's that's the marketing parties that are there was talking about it for the macro it's like yearly releases.
0:33:34If you can pull it off.
0:33:35Fine I think they prove they can pull off we can make yearly releases each ones have interesting features they
0:33:40eventually settle down to civility like they can do it. But the cost is like a lease half the year.
0:33:47You're dealing with like a baby O. S.
0:33:49That has a bunch of bugs then you get a period stability and as soon as everything's OK.
0:33:52Here comes the new one and like they can do it they can get them out on time.
0:33:56They're not they're not like I was tied to hardware like they just basically well you know Sammy's not ready we're to
0:34:01shut that later like it's not like there's a yearly update of Macs of the trying to sync with you know so it's not it's
0:34:06not exactly tied to that it's just that like. It's almost like a corporate stunts like not. Not like a you know.
0:34:14Stunt like sort of like saying.
0:34:16Our organization is so well we can revise in release yearly updates to a massive you know consumer operating system.
0:34:23Yes you can. And you can get it done. And during the course of its life it will settle down to stability.
0:34:30But it still may be too much like it still may be like why why do you think we need a new one of these every single
0:34:34year. We would prefer to have an entire year of boringness instead of four months of boring us.
0:34:41Yeah I agree
0:34:41and I wrote a small kind of response post to Marco's post which is mostly irrelevant except that a few people emailed
0:34:49me and one of them said.
0:34:51And I don't have the amount from me something on lines of Well it's really the yearly thing that's the problem.
0:34:56Or is it that there's so much stuff in each release new stuff.
0:35:00In each release and I think that's a fair point that you could argue that you could. You could just put less.
0:35:06In each of these releases but potentially keep this super aggressive yearly cycle but I don't just seems to me that.
0:35:15That's not really the choice that Apple would make is just have like one marquee feature in the rest of the new S.P.
0:35:22Otherwise on remarkable. And the other thing I'd like to point out is friend of the show Ben Thompson in the chat says.
0:35:29The problem is that Apple needs to be rate faster on the cloud stuff and slower on the software
0:35:34but by keeping them all linked together they're making both worst cloud is still too slow software is now too fast
0:35:39and I think that's a really steep oint that we really could use a lot of help on the Services side although again we
0:35:45definitely need some help on the desktop side as well. And just keeping keeping the desktop.
0:35:52And the and the mobile operating systems inextricably linked like Apple is it just seems.
0:36:00It seems like it's kind of tough to keep everything moving. Effectively that way.
0:36:06Now what I'd be curious to hear you guys is take on is a lot of people said well.
0:36:10They OK let's assume that Apple says well the hell with yearly releases.
0:36:14What happens for things like continuity that really are integrating. Both the desktop and the end I.O.'s.
0:36:23Wouldn't she want them to happen simultaneously Now the comedy of this question is that I believe pieces of continuity
0:36:29did not happen simultaneously in there ARE point releases to Yosemite to enable it but I don't like.
0:36:34Doesn't it kind of make sense to have everything packaged together at the same moment in time.
0:36:39Well for certain things yes but. Hey I don't think those things should really come up every year as you know.
0:36:46Big things that require this massive cordon ation between all the O S's I don't think should
0:36:50or will come of every year and be. You have to ask. At what cost. So you know.
0:36:58Would you drive a car that had really great features added to it every day but occasionally explode like.
0:37:05There's certain things that just like are not worth it you know and what. What I think has has really shaken.
0:37:10A lot of my faith and Apple software quality recently. Is is not like oh this button looks weird.
0:37:17Every so often it's like basic stuff that I that I take for granted as like this always works.
0:37:24Doesn't work anymore or works or radically like one of my biggest complaints with your Samedi is with networking.
0:37:31Issues. Usually with network discovery of resources or connectivity to network resources to local network resources.
0:37:38There's something about the way they revert discovery due to to enable continuity slash airdrop whatever whatever it is.
0:37:45It has made it extremely unreliable for things like network shares network printers to fight that we would have made
0:37:51fun of Windows people so badly. Beef. If their network shares or disappeared.
0:37:56You know every so often and or they had sixteen copies of the same computer on the network and like.
0:38:02These are issues that we have on your Samedi every day that are widespread issues lots of people have these issues.
0:38:08And it's like this is the basics. The basics are messed up now. You know the O.-S. Isn't crashing for most people like.
0:38:15We're not getting kernel panics. Fortunately. But you know.
0:38:19We are having a lot of weird little behaviors like that that just just things that seem basic similar to like
0:38:27when I.O.'s broke. Touch ID and phone calls. Like you know.
0:38:32Seems basic right
0:38:33and whatever the cause of that was that there was a you know delivery issue where I don't I don't care what the cause
0:38:37was the fact is like. You can't trust the basics anymore like that that I think is is scary and it. That's the kind of.
0:38:46That's what I'm talking about I'm talking about Apple losing repeat Haitian from this is like.
0:38:52You know nobody cares if things. You know don't quite look right or have some brand new feature.
0:38:58Doesn't quite work immediately like healthcare launched.
0:39:02It apparently I don't know much about I have I don't try to use it
0:39:05but apparently the condition of health kit at launch was a complete disaster. I don't know if it sticks and then.
0:39:11But it was like it was. It basically launch like not working at all if you didn't Apple.
0:39:17I remember the head of just all the apps for it and hold and delay them anyway. Big disaster will help get.
0:39:22That's less of it that's embarrassing. Certainly. But that's less important than.
0:39:28If you break a fundamental things like if if a new thing you promised isn't quite here yet like the the mac Photos app
0:39:34isn't here yet they promised. That's not that big of a deal. Like the stuff we've been using before.
0:39:39Will continue to work for a while like it. We're not losing functionality by that being late.
0:39:45But if they ship the photos thing.
0:39:48And it was horrible and all of a sudden
0:39:50and it took over like the way it the back hard drive like migrate player stuff over and you can't go back
0:39:54and all of a sudden like every so often you just lose a random photo. Like if it was busting.
0:40:00I can't mess with the basics and. The problem is that even the basics now. Get messed with on a high in a frequency.
0:40:09From these constant relentless.
0:40:11Big updates that the fundamentals are shaky now
0:40:16and that's really that's unsettling in actually assessing I didn't talk about this
0:40:20when I was discussing earlier I said a lot of people feel that the quality is decline but
0:40:24when I take my personal assessment of where the quality is declined.
0:40:29I think it comes just from having a longer view and having lived through lots of different cycles
0:40:33and having lived through. Times when it was way way worse. Like before I stand with you guys might not remember.
0:40:40I don't really think that things are worse now than they had ever been or that there's actually been a decline
0:40:46and not to say that I disagree with the sentiment of your post because I think it is a good senator. I you know.
0:40:51I endorse the sentiment except for it like it doesn't hinge on this being a new low. It merely.
0:40:57It merely hinges on the idea that you think the current situation is not acceptable which I agree with.
0:41:02And it's not acceptable because the apple today is not the apple that it was before the context is different they have
0:41:06more platforms they have different platforms their platforms that are more why.
0:41:09It's spread we use computers more often so on and so forth so I don't think the.
0:41:14There has been a decline in quality or any of the things you said about basic features not working it's like that
0:41:20but I think it should change because the context in which Apple is running its business and deploying its products.
0:41:27Is very different today and the one place where I would say things are slowly getting worse.
0:41:33Overall I don't think they are because I got bills been doing better in lots of areas
0:41:36but the one area where there are definite doing worse is as Apple again goes be a repeat of anyone's list of the show
0:41:42for any length of time sort of a million times there we go again. As Apple products.
0:41:47Integrate more
0:41:47and more network functionality as that becomes a larger percentage of what you do with your phone with your with you
0:41:54know it basically as i Cloud becomes more integrated as. As more of the network services.
0:41:59Stuff becomes part of Apple's products.
0:42:02Apple has not been getting better at that stuff fast enough
0:42:05and it's becoming a larger percentage of their product therefore it's dragging down the average. Because whatever.
0:42:09You know whatever product or technology you have does it involve cloud crap. Up.
0:42:13Well now you know it's like it's they can classes bringing down the average of bed test grades right.
0:42:18And every single one of their products.
0:42:21Now has either a small cloud component or a big con component
0:42:24or like it the whole friggin thing is a lot of components of that cloud part doesn't work it doesn't matter how good to
0:42:28be all right the caller on the client side.
0:42:30If the server side is falling over and
0:42:33and this is the type of thing they can get huge all Mike on the basics are anymore
0:42:35and so for example earlier this week no I said my contacts aren't sinking anymore I had a contact on my new i Pad Air.
0:42:42I had it like a week ago it's still not on my mac are on the i Phone
0:42:46and everything without correctly all know say my cot account nothing has changed everything is all think that
0:42:51everyone's all logged in there's no errors or anything is
0:42:53and I'm so now looking at here on the i Pad change the street address. Here it as the i Phone in the mac.
0:42:59It's not change and you just stare at me like why. Why is this a problem is the biggest owner of buggy clients offer.
0:43:04Almost certainly not right. It's but then you perceive this as. All my god the basics aren't working anymore.
0:43:11Because cloud functionality is now a basic it's something like you just expect I like my contacts are also going to
0:43:16cause everything that's the bar now and. Apple has really bad at that part of doing its products.
0:43:22And it's really bad at making a situation where you can do
0:43:24but like what I've been doing that situation you know I did a little dense that everybody does you just like sign out
0:43:29of i Cloud turn contacts off turn contacts back on add a new contact.
0:43:33You know just to see if it's sinking you know it like delete all i Cloud a different account sign..
0:43:38Signed Bulliet of I caught in a delete a million photos from a shared photo stream so i Mac.
0:43:43Turn it back on a much a grind for three hours loading those photos back in you know.
0:43:47You'll eventually start singing again then you can. You know like it's just this dance that you do.
0:43:52And that infuriates be able so that part of Apple's products I think is getting better.
0:43:56Only because the percentage of cloudy stuff in software has been going up
0:44:00and Apple has Apple's ability to do cloud East. Well if not you know up and going up. No question there services.
0:44:06Still need work you know they've always that they've always been you know mediocre at that most of the service stuff
0:44:10but they and they still need work but.
0:44:12Most of the problems that I'm complaining about
0:44:14and I've been seeing over the last couple years actually aren't because of the services like.
0:44:18Even the local client side software is problematic in the last few
0:44:22but I think that's basically better than it has been in recent years resident worse.
0:44:27Solve all the things you've complained about I think back to the disaster is that where the early versions of Tiger
0:44:31or leopard unlike you don't know for not working that working you know from beach ball.
0:44:35Finder let me tell you it was you know.
0:44:37It was dire and I can just forget about classic megalithic that was a total mess in the later years of its life. So.
0:44:44And a lot of the times. There. If you can fault them for one of things they've done in recent releases.
0:44:49One place I would say you could fault them for example
0:44:51and I just saw Greyhawk American plan about this today is where they do a feature.
0:44:56That seems like it's not like a marketing feature
0:44:59but it's a feature they can put on a box that is a perfectly good feature to do
0:45:03but that almost nobody is willing to accept the restack during needed to implement the features of one of the example
0:45:11was like tags which detailed and whatever but did that come out and like a mountain lion
0:45:16or something talk about the implication of tags and how is this crazy hack based on the label thing all the stuff like.
0:45:20All right fine if you're not can use tags so what it does look like is a big deal.
0:45:24It doesn't seem like it would impact anything it's like you're just piggybacking on existing crazy Echaveste plus
0:45:29meditate and is all these weird bugs about it but if I don't use tax doesn't affect me right.
0:45:33Well apparently the something having to do with network shares where it makes a tag queer. Request There.
0:45:37Something and that hangs like it hangs the whole thing and you get a beach ball in the Finder
0:45:41and Elvis on people who don't know
0:45:43and don't care about tags are getting a worse experience in the Finder for a teacher
0:45:47or a feature they didn't even care about that type of thing is like.
0:45:50That's an engineering thing where you have to decide. It's OK to have new features. But we really have to balance.
0:45:57Like does a new feature require like oh
0:45:59and by the way now just every time I bring them that we're share we have to do this other thing
0:46:02and it had blocks like it's a problem.
0:46:05I don't know how you there that's that's that's a type of thing where
0:46:10when you're planning the future for an ass you really have to talk about and say this is a great feature.
0:46:15We've wanted this for a long time I think it'll be interesting.
0:46:18It's a good bullet point to add to the bottom not exist in box will do slides about it and and have a nice demo
0:46:24and stuff.
0:46:25Oh and by the way does this potentially compromise any basic functionality that everybody needs
0:46:30and if the answer to that is yes really think real long and hard about the tradeoffs there.
0:46:35That is the closest I think I can get to saying.
0:46:38Like a sort of potentially marketing driven decision that has led to sort of unacceptable instability
0:46:45and basic functionality and a lot of the historic things have meant like.
0:46:48We want to add some minor feature but it means totally refactoring this. The subsystem.
0:46:52And sometimes it's like oh that's bad because it's going to cause bugs BUT example of the good is like.
0:46:57I think in Yosemite they totally read it I can service has and it.
0:47:01Desperately needed to be redone because for years that have been these icon services bugs the cause of all my company
0:47:07pixilated and there was no way out of any just trying to purge and caches and restarting and eventually would go away
0:47:12or maybe not. That's what have a thing where it's like.
0:47:15It really important to fix the bug that's cosmetic it's not a big deal
0:47:18but the fix that we had to rewrite the entire icon services thing will eventually got it eventually got to get around
0:47:23to it
0:47:23and I'm glad they did get around to it so I don't want to be afraid to do that until like three just like oh we can't
0:47:27change anything we can't anything that we're you know Discovery Day. That would mean totally changing discovered.
0:47:32To do continuity. I don't think that in and of itself is a bad thing.
0:47:35But again if that means for people learning a new continuity.
0:47:39Because discovery does the other jobs as well a compromise then you've got to be really careful by you make those
0:47:43changes. Yeah.
0:47:44You know I'd like to go back a step though and in you were saying well it was much worse early on you know. In gosh.
0:47:51Classic macro S. Was ridiculous with stability.
0:47:54But the problem I have with what you're saying even though it's surely correct.
0:47:57Is that there's so many new mac users not even count myself in that category I mean I came to to the Macin two thousand
0:48:04and six thousand and eight some like I don't remember. But for me.
0:48:09Even in my short almost instant testimony small tenure as a mac user as compared to you John.
0:48:15I can tell you that just my feeling of the quality of less ten releases.
0:48:21Is exactly what we're really all of us are saying is that with each with each new release I feel like it's getting kind
0:48:29not from your but more fragile. Bunch of thank you guys you two are just traveling. The the curve of your apple usage.
0:48:38What I mean like sort of like you know. Curiosity excitement. Marriage honeymoon period.
0:48:45I don't know you know you know me like that like they don't want to talk about a cycle was he a veteran for a long time
0:48:50you've gone through that's like like seven times already and I think collectively.
0:48:54Because like the mac used to be like this exclusive thing that now a lot of people had
0:48:58and we all loved it it was great and then there was the honeymoon period and things started to get a gram
0:49:02and then it's like oh maybe System seven brings us new life
0:49:05and then Windows ninety five game was like that was our hitting bottom you know it's like.
0:49:09We've gone through the cycle helped as it was small but the. The huge influx of Apple customers now.
0:49:13There's a whole it's kind of like the baby boom there's a whole generation of Apple users.
0:49:17Most of whom came on board either because the i Phone or the i Pod. Who are getting into the Apple stuff.
0:49:22And who have gone through their excitement and their courtship and their marriage in their honeymoon period.
0:49:27And are now kind of settling into bickering old middle age.
0:49:31And it's not this is not that this is a cycle of Apple's products and services
0:49:36but it's a cycle of a specific cohort of their customers. Because of the huge growth they've had in recent years.
0:49:41And that cohort. Is coming into their. You know I'm no longer impressed.
0:49:47More than I'm dissatisfied like that I take everything that works I've taken for granted
0:49:51and anytime something that didn't work starts.
0:49:53Did Work starts and not work and I perceive that as a decline in quality and I'm angry
0:49:56and so again I don't think like this perception is wrong
0:49:59and they should be talked out of it I think in the context of this massive customer base they have now.
0:50:03Apple has to do about it they absolutely have to. They have to realize that it's.
0:50:06You know you can't rely on the honeymoon period you have to actually satisfy the customer that you have.
0:50:10Congratulations you've got all these customers it's a lot i Phones.
0:50:13Now you're selling more Macs and i Pads stuff like that.
0:50:16This is their responsibility to fix it so I'm not I'm not saying this as a defense of the company
0:50:21and saying that he understands that absolutely do need to change it but from my view.
0:50:25You know with the long view I think these the quality things go in cycles
0:50:29and there are aspects that need to be addressed. The cloud stuff.
0:50:32Thinking hard about the release like on stuff like that
0:50:34but I'm not convinced that empirically in anything that you can actually measure you could say that the quality really
0:50:39is worse.
0:50:41And I may be just an academic point like us why haven't bothered blogging about this does not like I'll point I want to
0:50:45argue because it does in the end it doesn't matter if it's worth all of mattresses.
0:50:49What the perception is of the customers that you have now and if they're all in the bickering. Middle age period.
0:50:54You've got to deal with that you gotta make approx better and the and I think they should be better.
0:50:57Like why shouldn't you have the problem is that you're saying that we're all in the bickering middle age period maybe
0:51:03Mark when I are cuz I mean he beat me to the mat by three or four years I think but.
0:51:07But even new customers and I I can think of a great example but I am extraordinary I know I have friends
0:51:14and family members that have come to the MAC much more recently than I only in the last couple years
0:51:18and even some that haven't gotten Macs
0:51:22but we're thinking about it that are all real I don't know about this anymore because of heard some bad things
0:51:28and I've heard that things are going so well that. That's like when the baby boomers like whatever the baby boom.
0:51:33Are into our want
0:51:34or what they feel like influences the larger society because they are the largest group of people like they influence
0:51:39the others so this huge group of existing Apple customers who is now becoming dissatisfied.
0:51:43Influence all the people who are interested because all the hear from all the people who are they know who are in this.
0:51:48You know you're likely to know a baby boomer because a lot of them.
0:51:51And you're likely to know one of these mac users or Apple users who's a kind of on the downswing and dissatisfaction.
0:51:56And what you're going to hear from them is like oh. Things are worse now it's crappy.
0:52:00I don't like it you know I mean like it's the. It's a network effect type of thing like X.
0:52:04Of these things go in cycles.
0:52:06And the cycle who are not completely in lockstep
0:52:08but it's like waves of people in the influence other people in articles like this and you know the cycle of the ME
0:52:14and stuff like that again I don't think that that particularly matters.
0:52:17Because the bottom line is they do have quality problems they do need to address they do need to do better because if
0:52:21you have this many customers.
0:52:23You can't rely on them all to be like Oh gee whiz Apple stuff is so shiny and I love it so much because that.
0:52:29That is not sustainable sustainable if you have to do the hard stuff and be reliable and be consistent
0:52:33and figure out how to give new features.
0:52:36Without compromising stability figure out what you really schedules
0:52:38and figure out how to do this cloud stuff more reliably. Well. So first of all let me go back a minute.
0:52:45I've been using the Apple. Ecosystem. Starting out with Macs first and then eventually I.O.'s things.
0:52:52For actually slightly longer than I ever used P.C.'s. So I were slightly past my twenty year mark of use of computers.
0:53:00And it's basically like literally ten years in I switched. So I'm about six months past.
0:53:06My twenty year marks I've been using Windows. I use Windows the full time for ten years.
0:53:11And then I'm using Apple stuff full time for ten and a half years now and.
0:53:17So I think I'm past the point or I mean I guess I can always get older.
0:53:22But I think of has the point where this could just be like me having a bad memory of things I don't know
0:53:29but I think one of the things that exacerbates this feeling of things getting worse.
0:53:37Is that there's so much more that these devices do first of all there's more devices and that's that's a big one.
0:53:42That's And. So let's say ninety nine point five percent of the time.
0:53:47Things work the way they should and zero point five percent have some kind of bug or failure or doesn't or crash
0:53:53or you know some something that something goes wrong. Point five down the time.
0:53:57Every every device uses that you have like every time you take your phone in your pocket to use it.
0:54:01You're doing that like a hundred times a day. Right. People measured at the law.
0:54:04That was the one I was thinking about the products that Apple sells
0:54:06and customers that they have into the fact that the we use the computer is more like. It is numerically more.
0:54:13But like press. Percentage wise like they're not producing more bugs per line of code or. You know whatever is just a.
0:54:20There's more code.
0:54:21It will use it more often and I should also emphasize I haven't seen this chat room yet
0:54:24but I realize I'm thinking of the bag mad I'm talking almost entirely about the Maquis
0:54:28or because we're talking about you. Samedi and I was ten in the release schedule.
0:54:31I.O.'s I will absolutely stipulate that I was seven eight
0:54:34or more worse quality wise than the proceeding with absolutely. I think that it.
0:54:39I don't think anyone's arguing that as a reason having a debate about the mac yet
0:54:42and I mean I can tell you to really working with a lot of these new A.P.I. Is that are added in seven eight.
0:54:48There's a lot of bugs that are just A.P.I.
0:54:50but It's like they're just bugs in the shipping version that your app has to work around in a lot of the new features
0:54:56like ADD and a lot of old features that get rebirth and after they've been fixed and O. S. Bugs like.
0:55:01How many times that like. It just takes out the whole S.
0:55:04Like that isn't that was not an i OS experience in the past now.
0:55:08To give I us some credit like the changes and they are perhaps the most significant changes dial us in a long time.
0:55:14But for I was you have a much stronger argument that numerically I can show you that the quality of Iowa seven
0:55:20and eight has been a decline.
0:55:21And I can show you that and I can strongly argue that the absolutely lockstep hardware
0:55:28and software release schedule of i OS is puts the software team in a very difficult position in terms of quality if
0:55:35you're going to try to do yearly releases.
0:55:37And it has to come out of the ones you know what I think about with the phones. Let me show you a pie chart of.
0:55:41I OS device profits in Apple's revenue like it's. That's the entire freaking company now.
0:55:47The MAC gets the luxury of not being white is locked into that although I us in the back are sort of moving.
0:55:52Had together now. But the not get to be like you go ahead i Phone six. Yeah I'll be I'll be there in a minute.
0:55:57Like now we don't have to release its find you will just release the next with the old version of the O.S.
0:56:01The boots like are we just hold the next back nobody cares man nobody cares about the IMAX become a when it's ready.
0:56:07And so that's why mostly focusing on the mac at IO as I would definitely stipulate I mean.
0:56:11Copy and paste all those and worked for me sometimes and I know some of them tell me that doesn't work for them
0:56:16and use them as well but like there actually is a longstanding pasteboard bug that I had every cell.
0:56:21That's been in America less dense and I started using a. So like and I us though.
0:56:26Like we've all used every version of violence like we've all been there from the beginning.
0:56:30And we can say you know there there were bumps in the road but seven hundred eight is a definitely downward bump.
0:56:36And that's our recent history for the past two years. Yeah. And it again it just it seems like C.
0:56:41and This is what I think early.
0:56:43Because because everything is so much more complicated now and there's so much more of it.
0:56:48Those those little point five percent of things going wrong.
0:56:52They don't add they multiply like the chances of you running into something going wrong are wrong any given day.
0:56:59Is multiplied by all those factors. And the clouds up at the cloud of the multiplying factor to. Yeah.
0:57:04It's behind everything and it's between them
0:57:06and like you know getting all the continuity in the air drop stuff to work. Throwing a watch. Yeah.
0:57:12And the problem I see like right now today. I get my work done. It's usually not a problem.
0:57:18But the rate of failures does seem to be going up and the the biggest problem I see is not you know.
0:57:24Everybody has a bad release every so often even big companies like Apple.
0:57:27They're not gonna get everything perfect every time that's fine but is there a sign of things getting better
0:57:33and that's where I'm really scared is I don't see it. Well it's more than that right it's not only.
0:57:39There's no sign of things getting better but the engineering talent is getting spread even more thin.
0:57:44In that in that you know now we have a watch coming.
0:57:47And that's a whole nother platform with a whole nother series of A.P.I.
0:57:51Is that that somebody is going to have to write and. Even if it turns out that.
0:57:56They've hired a bunch of engineers well. Are they as good as the engineers that exist are they worse.
0:58:03Name may even be better but they certainly won't be as entrenched in the Apple way. So yeah the.
0:58:10I think you're right Marco that we haven't seen any indication or get better
0:58:13and we have plenty of ways that it could get worse
0:58:15and I'd like to hear what you job say about that we should really talk about something cool. Yeah.
0:58:20And just to close up.
0:58:22My part of this I think you know I posted the follow up post saying how much I regret publishing that post.
0:58:27I regret having published the post. Not because it was complaining about Apple.
0:58:32But because I just didn't do very good job writing it. I don't regret complaining about Apple.
0:58:37I think these complaints were valid or need to be made need to be made
0:58:40and one of the reasons why the post spread so incredibly quickly and far and wide.
0:58:45Is because there's so much agreement out there.
0:58:48And you know once I got to that to the major media that was all sensationalism for the most part but
0:58:52when it spread around the community first. Which it did first.
0:58:56That was because people feel this that this is this is a thing.
0:59:00So I only regret not having done a very good job writing it. And you know some poor word choice.
0:59:07Choices here and there. I don't at all regret making the complaint. Anyway.
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1:01:59That's that's the regret is like something Iraq up top of that isn't very good. If you want to go a medal like.
1:02:04I wish I could remember this
1:02:05but it's the problem with our show IT system is I don't think global docs like keep history forever.
1:02:10Like we delete stuff when we're done with it rather than like making a document so mad
1:02:14but anyway there was an item in the show notes where you wrote a post.
1:02:17Many weeks ago and I put I put it into the show it's because I want to talk about it.
1:02:21And you put a no bias that you said I don't think it's interesting I don't want to talk about it I mention you deleted
1:02:25from the notes. And don't remember what it was The Remember I'm talking about Margo.
1:02:31That describes many things there and I think it was about one of it was about one of your posts on market are
1:02:36and the reason I put it in the notes was not to talk about the content of the post.
1:02:39But to talk about like this post is why people get angry you Marco. Because there was a great example.
1:02:45It was a great example of you posting something that me reading it I knew exactly what you meant
1:02:49and it stopped again so that you had said a million times in the pod gas and it's just like.
1:02:53This is not shocking your revolutionary day but he listens to the shower knows you are both. And yet.
1:02:58If I came to that post.
1:03:00Like you know just blank without knowing and it without having any context I would have read it and gotten angry.
1:03:06And then it's all about just like word choice in tone and stuff like that
1:03:10and you talked about those in your thing it's like you regret using a particular word
1:03:13or you can break a phrase you don't feel like you want to write everything.
1:03:16Where you're writing your constant thing where people are going to say and they like your writing defensively
1:03:22and you're second guessing yourself and all that other stuff and that's what I want to talk about
1:03:26when we did that both and maybe if we did that maybe even years ago arbiter in this post anyway
1:03:29or maybe you were thought of ahead of me writing this thing and. Because that's. I don't.
1:03:34The negative part of the part I think you've articulated well a lot of people talk about it like.
1:03:38You don't want that feeling where you.
1:03:40You're They're afraid to write something or when you're writing it you're like defending.
1:03:46You're defending things like your. You're defending yourself or imagined attackers as you're writing.
1:03:52Right because that doesn't feel like good and you should be like Jimmy just say what I'm going to say. But I think the.
1:03:57The flipside of that and something that you get if you.
1:04:00If you care deeply about these things which you clearly do you know like. If you care at all about what you write and.
1:04:07You know better in yourself I'm becoming a better writer and.
1:04:11You know this up is that some people don't some people just writes In Session. Sensational B.S.
1:04:14You feel like a slave like a baby. And I don't care that they are just like riled the bunch of people.
1:04:18I can tell you quite a few of them right now. You are not like that at all right. And you learn MY And so for all like.
1:04:24For all the years writing a left hander is everything especially in the beginning when people thought I was a lousy P.C.
1:04:29User didn't know anything about Macs and I just try to mak ones I wouldn't hate them so much like.
1:04:35It trains you like the. The lesser light side of that defensiveness is. You get very good at reading a sentence.
1:04:43As it exists not as you want to be and making sure that your specific word choices.
1:04:49Are you can defend them if challenge because you picked exactly the right word for what you meant and.
1:04:55The second of all that I can I pick a word that will help me to help me to not be misunderstood sometimes that's harder
1:05:00to do and sometimes like you know what I use the correct word if they can't figure it out explain to them after this
1:05:04but I always like what I was WANT TO DO WITH MY ALL the last ten reviews.
1:05:08And my current ones that matter is if someone hasn't complained about something.
1:05:12I want to be able to answer them by merely copying and pasting the sentence from the thing I wrote to say.
1:05:18You read the sentence again because it contains the words in the correct order to express the answered your question
1:05:22and yet you seem to have glossed over it right. Like where they where they read what they wanted to hear.
1:05:27And you get into trouble when you pick a word that expresses your feeling at the time
1:05:31but if you were to read the sentence you like you know what I would actually like The knows that I think you would
1:05:35choose a different word but when you wrote it. Like oh that's that's the word for how feeling now. But if you.
1:05:40If you take. You would never take the that sends back and pasted to somebody say.
1:05:44As a defense in fact you would look at and say Oh.
1:05:46Actually that's not there it was not precisely what I meant that sort of.
1:05:50Some people call like loyally like word choice or whatever like it sounds boring and it sounds crappy
1:05:55but it's actually something I kind of savor and writing my things in that.
1:05:58I want every sentence I write to be at least defensible to me like I should be able to explain myself it should express
1:06:03whatever I think if it doesn't express exactly what I think I should pick a word to get close to expressing what I
1:06:09think
1:06:10and that practice some people get some you'll find that practice kind of harmonies like you know it's going to be alright
1:06:14money on which I think it's perfectly fine but for me.
1:06:17I get all paranoid about it why can't one night
1:06:20when people can use my own words against me I have chosen the wrong words because they're not really like that's not
1:06:25what I meant I never want to say oh no that's not what I meant I want to say no that's exactly what I meant.
1:06:29And maybe I can. Diagram the sentence for you to explain how I think what I meant.
1:06:33If not what you're saying because there's what you know.
1:06:35Everything around that people are always going to read what you actually wrote and say.
1:06:38I think what you're saying here is that Apple is doomed like that I write that Apple was doomed.
1:06:42No but seems like it seems like really. You know like we can have that debate but I don't want people to put the word.
1:06:48You're saying here that Apple's qualities take a nose dive I never said Oh.
1:06:51Jim I did say nose dive that's not really what I meant. Right. That's the frustration that's what hurts.
1:06:56Is that I feel embarrassed and guilty that I made a bad word choice.
1:07:01Not like I can be angry if somebody misquotes me or.
1:07:04You know take something out of context or whatever but there's only so much you can do about that
1:07:09but you don't want them to be able to actually quote you.
1:07:11In context and you feel bad about exactly that's the problem is like when I know I was wrong and I did something bad
1:07:18or stupid.
1:07:19And then you're think it's magnified
1:07:21when you write a million things like everybody does especially if you're a frequent blog you read a million things we
1:07:25don't pick the person I had the luxury of picking the precise word every like one thing a year
1:07:28and it just poured over it like an insane person right but if you're blogging every day like you.
1:07:32You know but and then you get caught by surprise is like most of my stuff gets read by X.
1:07:36Number of people that got read by X. Times a hundred thousand.
1:07:39And that's kind of like an unfair lens to focus on again what you probably thought was like.
1:07:42There's another one of those posts or summarize what I've been saying A.T.P. The best in months.
1:07:46You bang it out you're done you go to sleep like no big deal right now he wake up and it's like go.
1:07:51Why why this one and not when I talk about like closed headphones
1:07:57and I think I think the answer to why this one the like people picked up on this is like.
1:08:01If it wasn't you it would have been someone else because that has been the air like this is this is an actual thing.
1:08:06You know your guard you about justification
1:08:08or whatever I'm saying like the current crop of Apple customers are in a cycle now.
1:08:12Where we are not satisfied with the quality of the products we're getting.
1:08:17And you know we expect more than we're getting our expectations.
1:08:21Maybe up our usage maybe up the quality maybe down some combination but we're not happy
1:08:25and so it's been bouncing around but apropos you with software colleagues and bouncing around circles for just.
1:08:30I think of this point for you know. Over a year. And this just happened to catch.
1:08:34Because it was the right person at the right time expressing the things that you know.
1:08:38He's saying what we're all thinking right and or. You know their misquote of him is what I'm thinking. Well.
1:08:46Well the funny thing is I was digging through the showdown so you guys were talking trying to find that link
1:08:49and I'm not sure that this is the one you're looking for.
1:08:52John but I did stumble upon the products Apple doesn't have time to improve dated December twenty ninth two thousand
1:08:58and thirteen. Very last paragraph is on. Marco's website.
1:09:01While most of the press demands new hardware categories I'd be perfectly happy if Apple never made a T.V.
1:09:06or A watch or a unicorn and instead devoted the next five years to polishing the software
1:09:10and services for their existing product lines. December twenty ninth twenty thirteen.
1:09:14Now that wasn't what I was thinking of in terms of the one I was going to complain about how Marco wrote it
1:09:19and not what he wrote it was like it was it was like not a. I don't know his tech related it was just something random.
1:09:26Right. My point is just that over a year ago. We were all complaining about software quality.
1:09:32I always give I mean ultimately do all the archives but I saw four guys
1:09:37and I not unlike what we all complain it's just like.
1:09:39When does it reach a critical mass when does a gain traction in the larger thing when does it become
1:09:44and it's almost kind of sad that it becomes a story because then. Then it itself. Begins the cycle.
1:09:49All that we know will eventually end where this becomes a thing and then we talk about it and abounds around
1:09:53and we forget and it's kind of a shame that that is a cycle to write that the media cycle about this thing.
1:09:59And the media cycle terminate long before it does any satisfaction. SAS satisfactory resolution to the actual problem.
1:10:05Because the media cycle has a life of its own.
1:10:07That is not concerned with the substance of the things it's reporting on like. Once the story goes away it's like oh.
1:10:13I remember that story a couple years ago that was him suffer
1:10:15but I guess the stick now is that I hear of it anymore no probably not like you know the the.
1:10:20The reality continues to lurch along right and so you know.
1:10:23Just like Apple of you like Africa comes and goes in cycles in between then is it solved Nope. No not at all like.
1:10:31And I think that's that's the problem like it
1:10:33when that's all we talk about in the show is like systemic problems with Apple's products
1:10:37and how they might solve them.
1:10:39And you're the option Marco put out there like the fans who have like I'll just keep polishing your products are
1:10:43furious. That is more viable on the Mac. Because like I said. Who are they chasing at this point like.
1:10:49It's not a an active battleground it's more of you know.
1:10:52Borders and draw numbers and I was ten it's kind of gently encroaching on Windows
1:10:56but it's not like a burgeoning market but on the phone. They really do have to be racing forward.
1:11:02They also need to get their quality under control
1:11:04and need to balance those two things I think the good thing going for them is that as a lot of people started like.
1:11:10I think I saw someone say I was hit with I think I was basically feature complete now right you know that you know the
1:11:15end of history illusion right yeah OK that's all there. But.
1:11:18But in some respects it's like I was a brought a lot of longstanding things that we wanted for a long time.
1:11:23And you do have now a window of time where you can polish those because it's not like there's some major feature there
1:11:30are like all I got I was totally needs like background processing or multitasking or.
1:11:34You know better interop communication
1:11:36or better way to share files like at this point it's basically an app store problem with the like loud thing like the
1:11:41basics are there if only they worked. Now.
1:11:43I mean that was kind of like so many features in Leopard were like all the things you add in Leopard sound great I'll
1:11:48be really excited when they work. You know and they were like two years.
1:11:52Don't know whether it came out and it's like oh now.
1:11:54All that stuff kind of works and that's kind of good but nothing that are featured plate but they do go in cycles
1:11:59and I'm hoping that I was nine.
1:12:02And the authentic comes out after it will be a cycle where they don't feel the need that.
1:12:07You know that neither of us is desperately missing some Peacher and they can do a polishing release.
1:12:13I don't necessarily agree with the assumption. They need to be racing ahead with software and I alas.
1:12:19Because I mean look. They just took a big chunk out of Android sales. Not because I was eight support extensions.
1:12:26But because they made bigger screen phones.
1:12:28Well the heart of the hardware aside they need to be written for their job it wouldn't you agree the features they had
1:12:32and I was a had many of them are sort of long overdue.
1:12:35I would agree that they were do but I don't think that is going to give the massive market share for Android.
1:12:41Or I or rather I don't think that's going to cause a lot of injured people to switch. Like it'll cost some.
1:12:48That's where the bar is now though. Like they were they were behind. And they needed to catch up.
1:12:52Right and so it's not like you suddenly get more users this is just the. The Anti to to get in the game.
1:12:59And you know they had to keep being raised as a terrible I don't know anything about gambling sorry. Anyway.
1:13:03That analogy. But I like the barber so far as to borrow something I can.
1:13:08The bar is being raised I have to keep an android had had.
1:13:12You know raise the bar in so many areas that I was was unwilling or unable to to chase
1:13:17and there were several releases where it was essentially.
1:13:19Let's keep the catch up to or Android already is simply because that is like.
1:13:25That is the standard these days
1:13:26and if you don't have these features people are going to ding you for it having them doesn't mean people switch just
1:13:30means you get to be in the conversation and nobody get to throw in your face no third party keyboards right.
1:13:34Yeah
1:13:35but in the grand scheme of things I really don't think a lot of those things were mattering in the marketplace as much
1:13:41as geeks like to think they were. I don't I mean it's difficult to say but like.
1:13:46When I was saying before it's like because the because I left the base with because the i Phone is such a huge part of
1:13:50Apple's business. And you know this the majority of their business I think at this point.
1:13:54And it's super important as the market that's growing the most. That's the one that has the most kind of.
1:13:59And it has an active competitor like not a sleeping one and not like a fossilised one bit about several active.
1:14:04Competitors that are weird because one guy's got you know Google's got the O. S.
1:14:07No platform but Samsung's making the money and.
1:14:10You don't even know who is going to come out of China with some crazy phones that are based on their own Android very
1:14:14unlike.
1:14:16It's kind of a malevolent twisting enemy that you that you're not quite sure how to defeating you just try to do like
1:14:22we just need to do our best in a race
1:14:24or a disaster because like I understand the sentiment they could have may have gone too fast in some respects they may
1:14:28have gone too slow holding back on all the features that I was eight
1:14:31and then putting them all out in one big bang release right
1:14:33but I understand that they felt like you know that the wolf was chasing them both is like an analogy show.
1:14:40A metaphor show is the wolf was chasing them.
1:14:42And it felt like they had to race where the no less tense like who's where you go on the stop Linux is not coming join
1:14:47your pain like Windows is kind of. You know it's resting at the very least and.
1:14:53They already won that market and it's not growing and just like slow and steady wins the race.
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1:18:01Do you want to talk about family sharing or is that going to take another two hours now
1:18:04and if we don't want to talk about family sharing If I are choices
1:18:07and think now our talk about the MacBook Air rumors
1:18:10or to listen me drone on more about markets think of the thing going on much longer about.
1:18:17Let's talk about the macro care rumors
1:18:19but I'm not saying that I don't want to hear your other thoughts on on Marco's post at some point maybe the after show.
1:18:24Yeah that's fine. All right so what were the start from ninety five Mack is that right.
1:18:30Yeah Markram got if it's true a pretty good scoop. About this the the alleged twelve inks Retina MacBook Air.
1:18:39And there's been rumors about. Well then i Pad Pro and a twelve in fretting a math book air.
1:18:45So far there when people seem to think those are two separate devices.
1:18:48These are not two separate divided right yeah exactly. So you know. I guess I'll believe them for now.
1:18:57I tweeted earlier on Twitter that I suspect that there's a good chance this is actually just one device that
1:19:04and immediately people are saying will the new built the service will suck.
1:19:09That's not going to choose my words carefully. Speaking of the service. My sons I guessed.
1:19:17School think he did something in school where they went to a Microsoft store.
1:19:21And I know this because he came home to me and said.
1:19:23Why do we have separate i Pad and a laptop service and I'll call you and I listen to his argument for the service.
1:19:33He's lost a starter. He doesn't know anything about. So. Anyway. So yeah I mean.
1:19:42My theory was that there were rumors about one device that was either a MacBook or. And i Pad.
1:19:49But anyway regardless it sounds all the room people are insisting it's actually shooter from devices
1:19:52and they know more than I do obviously I don't I haven't heard anything subform them. So. So anyway.
1:19:58Supposedly is two devices fine. And this. This one in particular was the twelve inch. Retina MacBook Air.
1:20:04And it makes a number of pretty substantial. If again. If this is correct. Which That's a big if I don't think we need.
1:20:11The reason I put the nose I don't think we need to care whether it's true
1:20:14and I think we can just discuss the rumor as in like. Is this something that Apple would make.
1:20:20And if they did make it would you like it why not fair enough. I might like it so. My. My portable needs.
1:20:28Have always been best served by a fifteen inch. However in recent times. I have. I have come to realize that.
1:20:37I always think I will get a lot more work done when I'm traveling with my laptop. That I actually do.
1:20:43I always think oh my laptop and I can maybe i can finally at this feature of the app. Even all be you know.
1:20:49Offline most of the time or have limited connectivity or I'll be up state with D.S.L.
1:20:55Connection that's like fermenting to seventy five. You know so I always think I'll get a lot of work done in practice.
1:21:01I usually just do basic web and email stuff because I am waiting to get back to my.
1:21:06My big fast computer with my big fat internet connection at home.
1:21:09So I might try it simply because I am due for a new laptop this year. And actually and the one.
1:21:19So I currently have a first gen retina fifteen. So it is almost three years like two and a half years old now.
1:21:25So this coming summer only three years old that. It's like I have no reason really to replace it.
1:21:30Except that it does have a screen image or tension issues pretty badly now. And and.
1:21:37My father in law needed a computer and so and I because it has pretty bad.
1:21:40I mean contention I don't really feel comfortable selling it to somebody so I figure I'll just give it to him he really
1:21:45needs a computer basically now.
1:21:46So I figure as soon as something new with Broadwell comes out that I want I will buy it and do the swap.
1:21:51I there have been many occasions. Or I have been in some kind of travel. Situation usually flying.
1:21:58Where a fifteen inch is way too big to take out and use.
1:22:01And so I think I would use something the small the people who fly a lot always talk about the eleven in chair
1:22:07and I've never liked the eleven inch because the screen is just so damn small on it like isn't it. It's isn't it.
1:22:15Thirteen sixty six across that might not only the lower as. But it's also physically small like there's wasted.
1:22:21The borders on it seems way too while you're the thing is already small
1:22:25and you couldn't you couldn't stretch though the screen to the edges Apparently not. Yeah exactly.
1:22:29So anyway so this rumor thing looks really nice in that. It appears to have a dramatically reduced.
1:22:36Screen bezel with which is nice. Or as you would say Brazil.
1:22:39I'll never forget that distinctive looks I have you know plastic but thousand the front of them and.
1:22:46And the keyboard goes edge to edge.
1:22:49One thing in the report said that the keyboard keys are actually narrower
1:22:54and I'm a little worried about that because they haven't changed the size of the keyboard keys in a very long time.
1:22:59Well hold on. Was that the keys were narrower or the borders between the keys were narrower. Well it doesn't matter.
1:23:05Does the because in in the picture in the diagram again this is all could just be fancy stuff in a diagram.
1:23:10The plasticky capture the same size they're merely place closer together
1:23:13and that is different from making the keys bigger so the gaps to be.
1:23:17And small
1:23:17but having a senator points in the same place the seem to be implying that the center points were in different places.
1:23:22So the keys are actually closer together I am magine. If the spacing is as shown. If you are a crappy typist like me.
1:23:29You'd probably be OK.
1:23:31But it is it is a compromise that it's like if you made the thing an actress animator water would that have been a deal
1:23:38breaker to have a standard keyboard like it's an interesting design tradeoff if true with.
1:23:42If the product was as conceptualized already had to more of the.
1:23:44Supposedly you know if this product was real what about this is Andrea.
1:23:48But the keyboard one is one of the minor ones but it's like.
1:23:52It's a line in the sand where it's like previously was like nope full size keys everywhere. Spacing it for all we know.
1:23:57Like I haven't actually measured center to center
1:23:58but I'm assuming that the keyboard spacing has not changed in the modern era of Apple hardware and.
1:24:03This would be a change. I don't I don't think I would notice it and I don't know you guys both touch typists.
1:24:09Yep mixed. Like I'm like you know a little bit sloppy but that God on title that.
1:24:16If you would use his keyboard Casey would you feel.
1:24:19Would you say oh I get it was obviously views on a lot of techie board cover her
1:24:22and i Pad you like I was like official price keyboard it's crazy I can type on it right.
1:24:26And that's an extreme with this spacing difference do you do you think you would feel it.
1:24:31I don't think so I will say that the rare occasions that I used to Max many many years ago.
1:24:37And the little nubbins were on the D. and. What which was the other T D N K.
1:24:43Keys back before they moved them to the P.C. Position of F. and J.
1:24:49That threw me off on student Lee and I could barely type on a mac back then but that was a.
1:24:55I would argue a much bigger difference I think if I just have to if I just have to get used to the keys being slightly
1:25:00together.
1:25:01Or slightly close together I don't think that would make a very big difference at all now
1:25:05and less a really big sausage fingers I think I find with laptops that.
1:25:08It's more of a thing getting used to the Keys that they move like the fact the controls not in the corner this
1:25:13when they move a skate better the corner and that would probably screw screw me up
1:25:17or maybe script people who are like Emacs users or other people might have the escapee more than you might expect.
1:25:22One exciting thing about this. This mock up of a keyboard here is that the left or right arrow keys are full size.
1:25:29Which is like one baby steps towards the sanity of full size arrow keys.
1:25:33But now but I haven't break the won't break the border of the keyboard yet but this is a baby step isn't in fact.
1:25:38Actually this maybe not be babies that this may be regression because it might have been driving him crazy to have half
1:25:42light left
1:25:43and right keys because they broke the symmetry of every key kept being the same size except for the you know modifier
1:25:47keys and stuff. So I don't know of any why I endorse that rumored change as well. So the big rumored change.
1:25:56Which has all of us talking about this in particular is allegedly. All of the ports are gone. Except a headphone jack..
1:26:05And a U.S.B. Three type see the new reversible U.S.B. Connector including the power counter like so the the.
1:26:12So if this is true. The power and all device connections except headphones. Will have to run through a single US be.
1:26:20Type C. Connector. Right so I think the first I mean say about this is.
1:26:24Is this technically possible to do right and from people who are been following the spec more closely than us.
1:26:31Apparently the answer is yes the U.S.B. Types you connector. Has a lot of capability.
1:26:38And I don't know the fine details of it
1:26:40but the people are saying that it was designed to carry up to one hundred watts of power into the computer.
1:26:47If necessary as well as be able to stream to kind of multiplex other device other port types. Over that physical plug.
1:26:56And I can do displays as well. Yes exactly. So it does seem like it is possible. So the answer.
1:27:02That's that I think I don't know if was emphasizing other darkly I mean they mention it here but like.
1:27:07The reason we can have this discussion is because plus
1:27:11or minus maybe minor things about like well won't charges faster or you be limited in monitors
1:27:16or will it compromise the speed of the boss. Technically from the specs it seems like yes this is a thing you could do.
1:27:22You can take a hot top with a headphone port. And a single U.S.B. Type seaport.
1:27:27It still might be a bad idea but it does seem like it's possible technically.
1:27:31Now if Apple did this and made this device regardless of whether we think they're going to or not.
1:27:35Would you want to buy one would it change your opinion of like of your saying you might want to get this is nice it's
1:27:42nice to get a laptop or vice me like having a laptop would be cool to be small
1:27:44and would this change your your decision about getting one. Probably not simply because it wouldn't affect the way.
1:27:52I use it but I also recognize.
1:27:54Like the with the way I use my laptop as a secondary and pretty occasional computer really.
1:28:01That's not how most people use a laptop most people use a laptop as their only computer and are using it frequently
1:28:06and. Most of the time it's on a desk plugged in to other stuff.
1:28:11So for that kind of use again we will have to see this is all we could be totally wrong this port could be totally
1:28:17awesome.
1:28:17And we might my peach be able to shut everything through it and have a little base station or adapter whatever.
1:28:23I'm not willing to say that it would be totally awesome because like the The Big One is that they're saying mag safe is
1:28:28gone to add a mag safe isn't just like go is just coming up with another port U.S.B. Connector to carry the power.
1:28:33Why would you do it well the same reason magnet exists in the first place because you don't want to plug the goes
1:28:37inside your computer to be the power cord to be able to power like. That's why magnet was invented we did that before.
1:28:43Like we had laptops where there was a connector that went into there and we hope broke them off
1:28:47and certain point you know not to say mag they've just perfect and mag safe too has been arguably regression.
1:28:53And maybe this thing is so thin that they can't figure out how to get a mag say.
1:28:56Maybe they should switch like the i Watch type little you know.
1:28:59Magnetic induction suction cup you look and thing over I don't know what they have to do.
1:29:03But I don't want to go back to a world where people can trip over the power cord or a laptop
1:29:07and so if this thing came out. It's not just that it has one port but if it didn't even have a power port.
1:29:12This would make me strongly consider. Not only not buying it for myself with on real life.
1:29:18I think magnate is one of the best teachers they've ever had to laptop line
1:29:21and if they take it away in favor of this little U.S.B. Type C. Connector. I would have.
1:29:25I would take a wait and see approach and I would say.
1:29:27Basically have to see is the connector so tiny that it's practically a thousand lightning connector you know.
1:29:32Is so tiny that it basically acts like Max that even that you can trip over a million times and it won't break off
1:29:37and it won't yank your computer down just because it's so small like it's not like a big full size U.S.B.
1:29:41Connector or is that really the issue that I think it's going to be and that. You know it's not as good as an X.
1:29:48A And we're back to the old days. But what about the X. Box style. Midway through the cable break away from doing the X.
1:29:56Box style. Statistics.
1:30:00I mean that's like you know any big giant thing in the middle of your cable know what if it wasn't so big and giant
1:30:07but it still serve the same purpose
1:30:08and you got to use the special cable the time in so let's get to the other compromises of having a single part of your
1:30:14the max a thing entirely pretend the power thing is not an issue.
1:30:17Why would you have just one of them less you're making some sort of philosophical statement like of their technical
1:30:21reason why we think we'd have just one some people have argued power because the second part require power
1:30:25and I could maybe kind of buy that
1:30:27but I don't know enough about the specs of the bars of the Coram line of processors might write.
1:30:32I don't know if there is something about adding another port that a.
1:30:36That is a significant power drain it seems like in this mock up there's space on the side of it where you could put
1:30:41another port. Well. It is teardrop shape still though. So it does paper into a into a narrow.
1:30:48Or shape as you go down closer to the person sitting so there might not be as much room for more of them as you think I
1:30:56would get if this is.
1:30:57I think this is all the stuff for shop job a bit surrender based on based on rumored information
1:31:02and things that were told by sources.
1:31:03I think there is technically a room
1:31:06but like in the aesthetic design if you don't want to sort of compromise that is there's the region that is
1:31:11perpendicular to the surface of the table
1:31:13and that region is smaller than the with of the things so with wise is plenty of room
1:31:17but is there room in the perpendicular area. I feel like there's nothing room.
1:31:20The very least you could do is you know one on one side and on the other or something like that
1:31:25but two ports is so much better than one because two ports get is the average person the ability to do something
1:31:32reasonable.
1:31:33Without engaging the sort of squid
1:31:36or octopus of cables that the snake out of the because it's like oh I have one thing plugged in
1:31:41and I had to do some other things like I just had to put in the little thumb drive help them drive there have U.S.B.
1:31:45Type C. Connectors but right. Well something. Some really common. Power.
1:31:48And an i Phone or like a mouse about a mouse and something else.
1:31:52I mean and you know and a lot of people of argued Yeah there's a lot of wireless mouse might have there
1:31:55and yes that's true as Bluetooth liason the but somehow the R.F.
1:31:58Donal's Yeah yeah exactly and but I mean just sit the simplest thing when like when I'm when I'm traveling somewhere.
1:32:04I always have devices pulled into the U.S.B. Port on my laptop and usually it's charging eyeless devices.
1:32:13So I mean if I just I just don't understand. I don't quite understand the thoughts offical statement that will be made.
1:32:20I understand a false offical statement was made by only having U.S.P. Type seaports. And by having it be fanless.
1:32:26Having used the Coram and like. I understand the statement of this machine. Right. But only having one of them.
1:32:33I don't understand the extra thing you would be getting from. You know the.
1:32:37This is a a a thin super lightweight machine it's almost been is an i Pad.
1:32:41It's very simple there's no fans and is not amazing like.
1:32:45Even if they went with like we're not going to run a screen because we can't because because we wanted to go with this
1:32:49low power family his line I would even be OK with that just like that is wholly what this machine is about.
1:32:54But nothing about having only one U.S.B. Cord again putting aside mag say nothing about only have one U.S.B.
1:32:59Port makes a statement to me that I find that has any value.
1:33:02Aesthetically practically speaking
1:33:04or in any other way unless it was like we couldn't do two because of power constraints
1:33:08but I don't think of the cases I've seen other laptops of the. You know the same.
1:33:12What we think of the same chips at the might be in something like this and they aren't as a compromise.
1:33:17So I am baffled by the single part rumor
1:33:20and I hope it is a just a misunderstanding of the Hope it's all a big misunderstanding.
1:33:24So I agree with you that I think throwing away mag safe. Is a very dubious choice.
1:33:31But let's let's just assume that they make that choice and it really is what this render shows which is just one.
1:33:39Lightning ask. Connector.
1:33:40Which by the way I'm not entirely sure why they wouldn't use Lightning I guess because of all the power
1:33:44and all the other things that this US P.C. Can do they need they need to carry a display over it right all that stuff.
1:33:52So. But regardless so we only have this one U.S.B. Type C. and Headphone.
1:33:57I keep trying to think about and I haven't had the time to come up with a good answer.
1:34:01But I keep trying to think about what. What has Apple done lately. That would enable this computer to exist.
1:34:10So for example. Air drop between computers that. Hypothetically if it ever freaking works.
1:34:18Hey Marco Have you ever talked about things not working anyway. You know if it ever works.
1:34:22Airdrop could be the solution that that makes U.S.B. Keys. Obsolete.
1:34:29And that's just one very silly example let's take another you you guys mentioned Bluetooth. Specifically for mice.
1:34:35You know I use a Bluetooth mouse. And so I don't need to plug in one of those little R.F.
1:34:41Dongles although pretty much everyone at work. Does exactly that plug in and are often go.
1:34:46So if you leave aside a secondary display which admittedly in a lot of context is very important. And if.
1:34:56If you assume that we can do basic U.S.B. Key style things with air drop or equivalent.
1:35:03What do you really need a bunch U.S.B. Ports for.
1:35:05I mean charging is a great example to Marcos point
1:35:08but that's kind of hurt so it's really a rhetorical question what I'm driving at is if you think of this.
1:35:13More like an i Pad that happens to have a keyboard and maybe even runs O.-S. Ten.
1:35:18Then you do a complete traditional computer. What do you really need those ports for. I think it's more.
1:35:27It's not so much like. What do you need them for like that you desperately want them it's that. Taking it away.
1:35:32It shouldn't be taken away unless there's a reason.
1:35:34And there's lots of reasons we were gone through which may be true like you know it could be a power issue
1:35:40and it's like well you know it is that that the smallness the fan lessness you know that the light is this machine is
1:35:47the reasons why we couldn't make this machine the way it is that the point that would be a reason I don't think it's a
1:35:50it's actually true in this case but that would be one reason.
1:35:53And the other could be some aesthetic or philosophical statement that you're making which I don't understand.
1:35:59But it in the absence of any good reason to not have it. Like just put it on that because it's so can you know.
1:36:05One is just it's just too few. Like why why just. Why not just have none at that point.
1:36:09Right because not that you need to all the time of a lot of people do need to all the time.
1:36:14But you want to have the one that you're using and the X. Your one for the for the other thing that you want to do you.
1:36:19Because the statement is a machine ultra portability convenience
1:36:23and everything is massively compromised by having to carry a satchel with you know a rat's nest of cables
1:36:29and like that. That hurts the message or the machine doesn't help.
1:36:32But what do you plugging in that's what I don't understand but I rarely mention like U.S.B.
1:36:36Key type things are Afghan girls. Already those.
1:36:38You know if you have an art Don Gonyea speaking you've got two ports felt. Just to do your work but but you've already.
1:36:43You've already failed. By my point is if you're using an R.F. Dongle or if you're using a U.S.B. Key.
1:36:49This is already not the computer for you but I mean I think those things are people be doing I have a portable mouse.
1:36:55You know. And it has just about R.F. Down on it's not Bluetooth. Right. And I have a U.S.B.
1:37:00Key and I want to use I'm outside of my work and part of my work involves taking as he was speaking from work
1:37:05and shoving endpoint files on it.
1:37:06And I can't do that without plugging my mouse it's like well why am I even bothering to use a mouse
1:37:10and never shall get a weird dongle adapter tighten like that is not a crazy scenario people who use use the laptop.
1:37:15Use mice with their laptops
1:37:17and to you know be the mouse is basically like that becomes like that port is taken all the time because I always use
1:37:22the mouse event on my little tray table is not because I hate trackpad or something. And by. The way I have a U.S.B.
1:37:27Key sometimes. It's already to port them you haven't done anything exotic like plugged in a portable hard drive or.
1:37:33You know plugged in an optical thing or something like like.
1:37:37Unless you're saying is this can't be a person's primary mac which would definitely be a first for any laptop that
1:37:42Apple has ever made they've always said you know there may be compromise for this but this can be your only mac.
1:37:47Because you can get everything done that you want to get done and it without. It's beget he's nest in a hub.
1:37:52Coming off of the thing with one port. I think that.
1:37:56That hurts the intended message of the machine as a tiny can be a little thing with not communion anymore
1:38:01when you have to come along with a bunch of accessories.
1:38:03We se but I disagree I think what it is is that your to your viewing this against a traditional computer.
1:38:08Which is the same problem I had when I first saw it. But the more I think about it the more I think this is really a.
1:38:14If you want the best of the best mobile computing experience
1:38:17when you define best as thinnest lightest etc Maybe this is even arm for all we know who knows. But one way or another.
1:38:24You have to buy.
1:38:25All in on the fact that these are the compromises that you're going to have to deal with you're going to have to trade
1:38:31in that R.F. Mouse for U.S.B. Mouse. I mean for a bluetooth mouse. But why did you why do you have to deal with that.
1:38:37Why do you have to say you're going to have to I will accept it if I have to.
1:38:41But why do I have to there needs to be a reason. Would it not. Could it not have been this then if it had two ports.
1:38:47Like that's the question I want answered seems to me based on the smoke of the same product I mean that in the real
1:38:52that it could be that thing with two ports. And I don't think it's a power issue.
1:38:57I think you're right
1:38:58but it's the only analogy I can come back to is around the time that MAC started dropping optical drives.
1:39:06I was not a mac user when.
1:39:08When they dropped floppy drives but around the time they dropped optical drives
1:39:11and let me be clear the two max that I that I own both have optical drives when that happened
1:39:17when they started dropping them.
1:39:18I thought they were out of their damn minds in the same way that I think a lot of people said that about floppy drives.
1:39:24But as it turns out.
1:39:27I don't side of getting the crappy quality pictures of Declan when he came
1:39:30when he was born from the hospital photographer.
1:39:33I haven't really used an optical drive in ages I can't even remember the last time of used it with that one exception.
1:39:39So it really turns out that we don't really need. Optical drives anymore and I'm wondering that.
1:39:46Maybe we don't really need U.S.B. Drive. Ports on a regular basis anymore.
1:39:52And you know what if you really want to stick with that or if mouse in your work and. If you really want to throw U.S.B.
1:39:58Keys into your computer at work. Then you know what John you're right you're going to have to have that ugly ass U.S.B.
1:40:03Hub sitting there with all its little things falling out of it because that.
1:40:07That's what you're going to have to deal with.
1:40:09I think the optical drive and the floppy drive and I would add sealed
1:40:12and batteries are great examples to support my point because all those things had a reason. Optical drive.
1:40:18Like I was totally in support of that going because like.
1:40:21Look what you can see maybe not necessarily for the I'm makin because you could argue that it could hire out there a
1:40:26little longer before laptops Hell yes because you would look at what you can do
1:40:29when you get rid of that it was this giant that was taken up like a huge percentage of the case yes please get that out
1:40:35of their floppy drives like nobody likes floppy drives us be cuter place them like the message of the I'm back was like
1:40:39nope it's all U.S.B. There's no A.D.B.
1:40:41Stuff like that was a philosophical message expressed by sort of like the paring down of the variety of ports no more
1:40:48like printer port and serial port all as I was like old fallen face gone new style here
1:40:53but that in just include one of them right. When there's a reason you know the incorporated batteries again.
1:41:00Making the university not having the battery door now doing all the stuff like you got something in exchange for
1:41:05compromise in a lot of people are angry about those things I really wasn't because I saw what I was getting for it with
1:41:10one part. I don't understand what I'm getting for it and that's my complaint about it in a moment.
1:41:16I'm not saying you're wrong.
1:41:17Really what I'm what I'm thinking is what if this is as you said a philosophical statement that you shouldn't need
1:41:23U.S.B. Anymore we're beyond that now. And I know.
1:41:26Oh that sounds kind of insane because even I think it sounds kind of insane all the why not put the euro.
1:41:31Like that would be a state.
1:41:32Because you need some sort of charge so i Pad put zero on it and people are upset about that
1:41:36and that was definitely a statement this is not a device that you're on Connect peripheral stuff. Yeah.
1:41:41It's a fair it's a fair point I don't mark a word you come down on all this. You know if you think about one.
1:41:46When the very first. Mac book Air came out and looked to have an eight was it was around two thousand and eight.
1:41:53It had a lot of these limitations. A lot of imitation is that a net. No computer. Even by Apple had that point yet.
1:42:01And it was. I mean I had one and it was it was pretty clunky they were it was pretty frustrating to use.
1:42:08It had one U.S.B. Port. And one display and one headphone and one power. But you know display never use headphones.
1:42:16So you base your had one U.S.B. Port and. That was so annoying. I hit the limitations on that constantly.
1:42:24You know these days. It's different these days.
1:42:27One of the biggest differences that wireless networking is a lot faster you know that I believe came with it to eleven.
1:42:31G. And the port on it. Like I have one little why are you going to Donal's for it. But the porters only U.S.B. Two.
1:42:39And that was the even song was only ten one hundred and. And of course the disk in it I didn't have the S.D.
1:42:44That was way too expensive. The home Ashima domestic C.B.
1:42:47With throttle down and everything to go to hot yep yep
1:42:50and the disk I had heard the the one point eight inch hard drive was so incredibly slow.
1:42:56And so like transferring files to and from it was excruciating. It took so long. Whether it was wired or wireless.
1:43:03It barely even mattered. It would just took forever. And having only that one U.S.B.
1:43:08Port even back then into those An even when I only had an i Phone when there were no i Pads yet.
1:43:13And I wasn't like you know because these are YOU CAN ALSO LIKE IF you. If you have a camera.
1:43:17Most cameras will charge over U.S.B. Now. So if there's so many devices have charged to rehearse be.
1:43:22And this is before a lot of extra hard drives are very common I mean really these days.
1:43:26As you know in some ways you know if you report in some ways any more ports.
1:43:30And I just remember how incredibly frustrating that was back then there's a reason why the next generation of MacBook
1:43:38Air added I believe that to ports right now I'm looking at one right now it has one of the left one of the right about
1:43:44the most importantly the port does not double as the power connector on the manhunt fiercely so that's that's the
1:43:50second issue which we did put aside but I would bring it back
1:43:53when it comes to like the reality of this thing it's like one port is one thing but one part that's also power.
1:43:58I really need to be convinced that it is able to fill the role the bank safe does in terms of tripping over power cable.
1:44:03You know so having owned that first air. It was increased risk. Limiting and frustrating in a lot of ways.
1:44:11That being said it was amazing because of how incredibly thin and light it was for the time.
1:44:17And it was a giant leap forward for that time. And eventually once.
1:44:22Once the the new one came out I think in two thousand and ten when they when they made the the university the good one.
1:44:27Well the the from who wanted to anyway.
1:44:29When they revise it made and made the good one that we all know now is the mac book air that generation.
1:44:35They fix a lot of it and one of the biggest in the fix was they all had S.S.D. If they were really fast and so anyway.
1:44:40If this is a this is a major leap forward. In some way or in some ways.
1:44:47Then we're going to overlook the one port thing if that's real.
1:44:50You know if we're going to overlook that we're going to tolerate it. But the first mac book air. To achieve that.
1:44:57Wow factor and these couple areas that also probably shouldn't have been anybody's only computer. And so.
1:45:04And so this isn't the first on they've done this. You know they they don't do it often.
1:45:07But that this isn't the first time they've done it. They beat everybody with network air though.
1:45:12Because they had Intel make that special.
1:45:14I think it was a dice shrink
1:45:15or whatever was some some special ship made for them that meant they were the first one our it wasn't even so I think
1:45:20it was literally a smaller package around the same chip whatever it was like they were they were able to come of the
1:45:25machines other people than I was there was the first university which other people didn't have it was also.
1:45:30You know the first laptop that you could make this ridiculously thin putting in the Ombudsman everything because they
1:45:34had the special chip and all that. That's not the case with us as already. You know P.C.
1:45:38Notebooks out that use the same chipsets that are available today that are not as elegant and everything
1:45:43but there they are similarly reaping the same adventures that Apple is going to get here because there are the on the
1:45:48mark with the same chipsets Apple excuse
1:45:50or at least being reviewed because I've read reviews them on site so they don't quite have the same.
1:45:55Then they don't have the opportunity to do what they did with the air.
1:45:58Or even I would say with the I'm activists point because this rumor design is a symbol of illusion of what they have
1:46:03it's Than or it's lighter it's everything so and so forth but it's not going to be the first to market.
1:46:07And I don't think they have a special. Maybe they have a special ships that in terms of the G.P.U.
1:46:11If it ends up being retina.
1:46:12And maybe will be the press red
1:46:13and one on the screen which is another wild card as Marvel doesn't say anything about whether the rim of things will
1:46:17see retina but I understand what you're saying but I would.
1:46:20I would not hold up the first mac book air as a model to be repeated because I think in the end that machine was not
1:46:26really a failure
1:46:27but it was bad enough that real always be remembered as one of those machines like oh yeah I got one of those
1:46:32and it was kind of neat
1:46:33but boy like ever wondered has their stories about like what the story's basically the next one that was the one that
1:46:38was actually good.
1:46:39No I mean and I think that I think that she was a failure like I would be harder on it having owned one.
1:46:44I think it was a failure I really like that machine we had an extremely love hate relationship.
1:46:49But but you know these days. The technology is better. In. Really important ways.
1:46:54Number one being as his deeds are now very cheap and you know relatively speaking. That now S.D.S.
1:46:59Can be in all of them so they can be fast and Wireless is faster so that alleviates lot of the I O.
1:47:04Bottleneck in and out of that machine that bothered me so much. So this guy.
1:47:08If this machine Israel I think this could be good. One of my biggest concerns though is.
1:47:15Once again it seems like there prioritizing thinness to an unnecessary degree. At the likely expense of battery life.
1:47:23So looking at this machine. If these. If the you specs are even close to true. It is extremely thin. And it's.
1:47:32And it allegedly still maintains the teardrop tapered shape.
1:47:36Which means we're going to be very little room for much battery in there and if they go in for light weight again.
1:47:41Not a lot of weight budget for battery either. So even if in with a very low power chip.
1:47:47You still have a big screen and radios.
1:47:49They might have got some space back because again in a fantasy machine is rumors they're saying that the trackpad is
1:47:55not a mechanical click down I don't understand what it is though
1:47:57but if it doesn't go down well it's like the stupid tactic like that all track that's how that we all turn off.
1:48:02Is it or is it like pressures
1:48:03and Anyway whatever they're saying it seems like they're saying that narrow there may be a sliver of extra room under
1:48:07the track that it wasn't there before because you don't need empty space for the trackpad to pivot down into where the
1:48:12saying about the that about the truck to the keyboard I thought they might have been saying it about the keyboard.
1:48:16No it's a the trackpad doesn't click down anymore like you like and presumably you just have to tap it.
1:48:21I was wondering if it was pressure sensitive or something but I mean I'm mostly on bbs machine
1:48:27but my two big things are mags A for an Omega safe and and. Give me a reason why there's not more than one port.
1:48:35That's not a philosophical reason because I mean that's another thing I thought would be the benefit of the U.S.B.
1:48:40Type see connector. They're smaller and.
1:48:43You can now you can fit more of them like they're not monstrous things where it's like you could on the original air
1:48:47they have it within like the fold down little things they couldn't even if it was on like Johnny's nice curve shape yet
1:48:52a little like flap door that would flap open it was. And they get they got over that it's like.
1:48:57It's like pop up headlights. Yeah exactly like I was you know.
1:49:01It was a thing in the end it feels like you know it just like once they have technology to make a decent life
1:49:05and not have them pop up they did it and so like you know. What else about this in the space gray.
1:49:10Coming in color something on all of our But that. Yeah I would love a space great. Apple laptop in the BE AWESOME.
1:49:18Overall I think it's going to be. It is really interesting. I think though. I am definitely concerned.
1:49:26Not about all these other factors not about the.
1:49:28The port as much I am mostly concerned about battery life that they have prioritized than this too much.
1:49:35And that there won't be very good battery life in this because you know just the listing eleven inch MacBook Air.
1:49:41Does not have a battery life. It is much better on the thirteen and because I have more space for a battery.
1:49:46I think that if the if you take this machine and you just don't give it a teardrop shape.
1:49:53Just make it uniform thickness the way the retina. Thirteen to fifteen or even if it's dinner.
1:49:58If it is uniform across the whole thing.
1:50:01That leaves surprisingly large amount of volume for batteries in there and I hope they do that but I bet they won't.
1:50:07You know. So I have a quick thought and then a question. A quick thought is. What if the brick.
1:50:13That is plugging into this one U.S.B. Port. Has U.S.B. Ports on it doesn't help you because under your desk.
1:50:19Yeah I mean. And yes we know about the plug bug please stop emailing us.
1:50:24Stop right there let me stop your email right there. That's not have a people do though.
1:50:27Like the plug is not like
1:50:29when you're in a hotel who knows where the plug is on your desk the plug is not always up like. It's a different place.
1:50:34People end up using you know people more be more like to use a powered hub.
1:50:38I mean it's possible now the other question I have is could this be the first our mac..
1:50:43So that's a good question I think if you look at the i Pad Air two C.P.U. The eight X.
1:50:50And you look at the the benchmarks from the new family score am chips that that would be simply the chip to be used in
1:50:56the thing. They're pretty close. Actually like they're they're similar in performance that. You know there are.
1:51:03I think the UNTIL ONE The Until one is faster single threaded. But not by a massive amount.
1:51:08You know that they're in the same ballpark.
1:51:10The big question to me is why would they go armed so no question they could if they wanted to they could ship in our
1:51:17mac they could compile everything from arm.
1:51:19And they could require developers to cross compile for the mac app store and everything.
1:51:23Didn't choke point out it was like a merry today as well like. If there was going to be arm.
1:51:29They would have to have something like the you know the Intel Developer Program where they shipped out like.
1:51:35You know G five. Power my cases with Pentium four is inside them to let people. You know like any C.P.U.
1:51:41Transition needs developers on board so that is the case you would expect that transition to proceed the release of the
1:51:47machines in the scheduling. If this leak is and in any way real. And we and we expect this machine to see Year.
1:51:56When are you going to tell developers by the way you're going to cross involve are merely crappy after the timing seems
1:52:01wrong to me for that to be the case. But anyway go on with the feasibility. Yeah well I mean. But again like.
1:52:05Well I think it will be less work this time because like you know developers are been dragged through one transition.
1:52:11We are not only already familiar with arm for my US
1:52:14but in these days developers like by going through the first transition a lot developers move their code to more
1:52:19portable code. And so they I think I think it will be a much less involved transition for developers and. I think the.
1:52:28The days of Apple. Having some kind of prerelease developer hardware program. I think that's your car.
1:52:33Pretty pretty far gone. And I think the way they would do this would be the same way when they when they have like.
1:52:39You know new i Pad some of the same with going to the watch like didn't ship a watch to everyone for watching the going
1:52:44to happen. You know they're going to they're going to let you submit apps.
1:52:49Two weeks ahead of time before Christmas goes on sale.
1:52:52But you have all that you have existing software the like in the case of those things you didn't like you have all
1:52:56these existing mag out to you have to decide if you're going to like a fat binary thing
1:53:00and if you aren't as the to recombine other things as that binary is
1:53:04and you have to decide whether his going to be a transition
1:53:06or constant parallel thing because his goods are maybe for this machine.
1:53:09Still can't compete with the high end machines so it's very nice you're going to still have this giant to back progress
1:53:13not going to have an ARM processor and.
1:53:15And then you're just going to have two processes forever and like there's errors.
1:53:20I think they can definitely make a machine with ARM Prosser The Doesn't it would be reasonably satisfactory
1:53:24but all the ancillary bookkeeping
1:53:27and strategic things don't quite get make sense to me I don't understand what they would come out on stage
1:53:32and say is the reason they're doing this.
1:53:34Unless they try to say it because it can be super low power it's like it would be lower power.
1:53:40But it wouldn't suddenly become an i Pad right.
1:53:42You wouldn't suddenly get twenty four hour battery life where you where you were with with the.
1:53:47Same Intel chip you have gotten. You know five or seven like. It's not going to be that big of a difference.
1:53:52But I mean for me the biggest thing is I have no question they could do this I have no question they could give
1:53:58developers very little notice and we would all just jump.
1:54:00And just do it or not we are not a matter of Alper but they would all jump
1:54:04and just do it because it wouldn't be that much work for most of them.
1:54:08My big thing is same thing as about the ports why. Because there would be a substantial cost to it in.
1:54:16During the transition first of all.
1:54:18Couldn't run boot camp anymore and you couldn't virtualize windows anymore that's a big problem for a lot of people.
1:54:23Once again. I think you know go back to the early discussion.
1:54:26This couldn't be your only mac if you do use Windows apps.
1:54:30But you know maybe it could be your travel Makar maybe for a lot of us myself included who don't ever run Windows apps.
1:54:35They can do it but there are certainly a lot of people need windows so that it would lose the support of all of them.
1:54:40For the transition period however long it is before. Most of the apps are all the apps you use. Are compiled for arm.
1:54:47How do you run Intel apps. Is there some kind of Rosetta layer because the problem is like when you went from Power P.C.
1:54:53To Intel. There was also a massive performance jump.
1:54:56I like that you said we've been through one transition before and I know you've been there many.
1:55:00Yes I know it but you're right I distrust your point every time there's been a transition.
1:55:04There's been some kind of bandage like a. It's a clear transition. This is old that's new.
1:55:10Which would not be the case with arm because you'd be like What the hell.
1:55:12What's your story for the macro you're going to go over that crazy twelve Koran browser where is that anyway.
1:55:17Wouldn't even be a transition and be every time there has been transition.
1:55:20It's been some way for you to keep using your crap. In the short term.
1:55:23And it was usable because the transition came with a big performance boost.
1:55:27Whereas in this case if you're going from Intel to arm.
1:55:30It's actually a little bit slower
1:55:32and possibly a little harder gives not forking out a meaningless until setting for you exactly.
1:55:36So you're not going to have. I've extremely. You know good enough.
1:55:40You know I can have good enough and you'll a sion speaker
1:55:43or translation speed of an intel binary run arm laptop like that's that's going to suck. And be either.
1:55:50Either not available at all or be pretty slow and probably unusable for a lot of people so I just I don't.
1:55:56I don't see why it makes sense to have this be arm. As long as Intel chips can get close enough.
1:56:02In power usage
1:56:03and I think the I think they with the core am I think we're seeing they pretty much can like not the arm and leg
1:56:09and hugely behind with the transition costs of of switching are.
1:56:14There's no clear reason right now why they need to me that transition there's no there's no massive gain to be had on
1:56:19the other side that we can see right now.
1:56:21Long term there might be and they might choose to make that transition at some other time.
1:56:25But and for for instance one of the biggest gains could be.
1:56:30but Apple's pretty sore with until right now because of the Broadwell delays have been delayed Apple's entire product line.
1:56:36It's not so much of the store with them they just like the long term strategic advantage would be a good example on
1:56:40stone
1:56:40and control of the major technology is the blood of all the blood like that whole thing that's why because they can
1:56:45make that switch any time they want. I mean yeah yeah just are sometimes are like. If that like.
1:56:50If they did if they CAN I was in our machine. I think the message would be that this may be a longer transition.
1:56:56But it will be a transition and eventually every single piece of hardware Apple sells will have an ARM C.B.
1:57:01You designed by Apple in fad by our rabble can get to fab for them like that would be the long term vision is like
1:57:07short term who are going to suck for you because all for all there is a market is that it's not going to be able to
1:57:10emulate your stuff it's not going to be a huge increase in performance in fact it might be a dip.
1:57:14But long term it's important for Apple the company to own
1:57:17or control the major technology of the contributors products and Bob Law.
1:57:20And that's a crappy message because you're like I don't care about Apple's long term strategy as some good products now.
1:57:24Right and so.
1:57:26And it's not like Apple needs to do this to save itself from destruction like well I understand you gotta do what you
1:57:31gotta do Apple. I still I would still be like I was simply working with Intel. Working on Intel.
1:57:40Maybe by Intel if you have to like whatever you got a lot of money. Work something out because. Switching to arm.
1:57:49Would be short term as in like the next few years. Not so great for Apple's customers and.
1:57:55Maybe this is not the best time to be doing that all right thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week.
1:58:02Casper hover an automatic. And we will see you next week. Now the show is over.
1:58:11They didn't even mean to be as it was accidental. It was accidental. John because it was that death was accidental.
1:58:29And you didn't he.
1:58:42Well it says so that's keep lists and the team article says the risk you need to hire an editor or something.
1:59:10Weren't you an editor of Fortune editor for a while is that all that work. You can't be your own editor.
1:59:16I know I'm just I was senator for like five minutes and you could be your own editor. You can.
1:59:22You could be your own editor.
1:59:24And I quit that's part of the experience of being a blogger it's like you don't have a staff.
1:59:28Like you don't have people doing other stuff or you're doing it all.
1:59:31You're writing your conceptualized new thing you're assigned to yourself you're writing it you're editing your copy
1:59:36editing you're putting into the C.M.S. You're running the web. Like you're doing the whole thing.
1:59:41So I feel I mean you can't do as good a job as all of us an entire staff
1:59:45but you don't want to have an entire step with part of the whole blogging things so I mean it's.
1:59:51If you look at things you have written recently go back to things. Hero before you. The system is working as designed.