The Accidental Tech Podcast

9: Fish Bicycle Scenario


  that's what we talked about tonight I think it was actually kind of a slow [TS]

  week in tech news it was i think one thing I definitely did wanna talk about [TS]

  them and I probably should have read more about it beforehand but oh well is [TS]

  this IDC PC sales are doomed to report and do either of you know specifics I [TS]

  know the gist of it is that PC sales are way way down 14% or something right but [TS]

  isn't that like the biggest drop in a decade or so I don't like it was an [TS]

  industry that was always growing like every year you sold a little bit more [TS]

  and then justice like not just a you know I slowing growth but a reversal now [TS]

  it's alright don't even know if its reversal say none of us rather than 40% [TS]

  like a 90% dropper 14 percent but people forget about it if you were to grab hold [TS]

  these numbers I think it would look like oh it's clear that you know like [TS]

  growth is leveling off and it's our turn downward and you know that's what you [TS]

  would expect right i you know i i don't know why I think it's it's worth [TS]

  discussing and and thinking about why people buy new PCs and and when people [TS]

  buy new PCs because obviously some degree of this growth was you know just [TS]

  population growing and more people getting a computer at all and so you [TS]

  know I'm sure I'm sure that factor was responsible for probably the majority of [TS]

  PC sales may be in the nineties and probably a good amount of PC sales still [TS]

  in the 2000 but I would guess that and now you know these days the PC market [TS]

  probably realize a lot of upgrades in this decade and and the last one [TS]

  probably as well and and so you know I have these theories and and I don't [TS]

  really have anything to back this up except my own personal experience and [TS]

  having having previously been a PC guy and a tech support guy in every [TS]

  else one of my theories is you know so in the nineties when when I got my first [TS]

  computer and so this is when I started paying attention plus I was a little bit [TS]

  young in the eighties but so in the nineties I feel like most people like [TS]

  white why would you upgrade your computer why would you buy a new [TS]

  computer and I feel like you know in the nineties that the biggest reasons were [TS]

  significant speed upgrades or new capabilities like if your old computer [TS]

  didn't have a modem and you either a tournament your computer you got a new [TS]

  computer with a modem later on you get you have networking support you know [TS]

  once once broadband comes in the very late nineties you had the addition of [TS]

  things like sound cards and CD rom drives and you know major major new [TS]

  hardware capabilities that sometimes required new computers and sometimes we [TS]

  get done as as upgrades and then similarly like back in the nineties Ram [TS]

  was so incredibly scares that an old computer and a new computer would [TS]

  actually be substantially differently performing even just like two years [TS]

  later because the new computer would be able to afford more RAM and you know [TS]

  CPUs were doing things like adding Masco processors and adding hardware [TS]

  floating-point stability like things that they get that now just every [TS]

  computer and watch and HDMI adapter has built in but back then they didn't [TS]

  mission impossible operating system operating system will self-destruct in [TS]

  six months to two years there you just slowly get worse and worse and worse in [TS]

  what is a regular person do in that situation [TS]

  time to buy a new computer I mean that that's what it comes down to is like if [TS]

  the thing you have it gets worse [TS]

  are broken or bad or inadequate in some way that's when you replace it a good [TS]

  comparison is television sets where the television set you had it still shows TV [TS]

  shows as it turned onto the channel change our camp fun and HDTV was like ok [TS]

  well now I feel it is inadequate because I saw my friends HDTV and mine doesn't [TS]

  look like that it's time to buy new to you but otherwise people who are not [TS]

  video files we just keep their TV and less TV stopped [TS]

  performing what the job it was supposed to do and a poppy seeds used to be like [TS]

  you by a man in two years [TS]

  like it would if it wasn't even as good as the day you bought it for getting [TS]

  compared to your friend's computer also pales in comparison but it just it just [TS]

  degraded like you know software gets lower and viruses and well that was [TS]

  later this week I feel like like so in like in the 2000 that I would say that [TS]

  was more than a bit like in the nineties I think it was much more about things [TS]

  that were like computers were actually advancing significantly past their [TS]

  hardware capability here every year you see your friend writer the computer in [TS]

  the shower rooms and it would be like looking at the radio TV and HDTV be like [TS]

  oh well mine sucks but like in the end of the 2000 I feel like there's also [TS]

  this major moves towards laptops and wireless and and that that helped drive [TS]

  a lot of cells and another way your link itself is being he's being cool and hip [TS]

  and I'm attached to this I get the calls for Hightower [TS]

  to that end when I was in school which was 2003 2004 I got a ThinkPad that had [TS]

  a built-in 802 11 be cards so rather than having this PCMCIA card with the [TS]

  little pimple on that little it was this huge boldest thing sticking out the side [TS]

  in sdcard does in a match today [TS]

  well I actually had a ThinkPad with the bill teen and I think was a Cisco Cardno [TS]

  last man I thought I was hot stuff [TS]

  the three places on campus that actually had wireless at Virginia Tech at the [TS]

  time I could do it without having that stupid PCMCIA card hang out of my [TS]

  computer and it was amazing but it's interesting because it's a go back a [TS]

  step I remember vividly my dad and I taking our 386 and adding a math [TS]

  coprocessor to it and in so I feel ya exactly and so I feel like there was a [TS]

  wave there was a period of time where advances were happening slow enough that [TS]

  you could kind of staple them on the computer you had [TS]

  and I wouldn't based on no fax whatsoever I feel like that was early to [TS]

  mid nineties and Marco I think you're right then all of a sudden velocity [TS]

  really cranked up in then you had to replace an entire computer an entire [TS]

  motherboard get the next advancement to be fair prices plummeted during that [TS]

  same time my first computer and ninety-four was a $2,500 and then by 97 [TS]

  I built a whole new one from parts for like nine hundred I mean it was it was a [TS]

  substantial difference you know so consolidation shrinking its many can fit [TS]

  more stuff on fewer chips here just cost less money blah blah [TS]

  to the point where you are iPhone zeroual system but I feel like you know [TS]

  in the two thousands there were still these things happen there were still [TS]

  these these big new reasons why you'd want a new computer and a lot of that [TS]

  had to do with wireless and people moving from default of buying desktops [TS]

  to default of buying laptops but I think a lot like I was working briefly in the [TS]

  tech support business in the mid to thousands and I was for very many years [TS]

  before and after that still doing it like on the side for friends and family [TS]

  and stuff and it was very very clear that starting in the early to mid to [TS]

  thousands a lot of people were replacing perfectly good computers because they [TS]

  were full of malware and people thought oh it has slowed down because it's too [TS]

  old I guess I have to get a new one they wouldn't think to reformat and reinstall [TS]

  windows like that that was never considered they would just go out and [TS]

  buy a new computer even though the difficult was perfectly fine hardware [TS]

  wise and which is a comical and tragic waste of resources but I feel like that [TS]

  that's certainly boosted PC sales and probably is still to some extent [TS]

  although anti-malware tools are way better now and and way more widespread [TS]

  but what can you really have a lot of know exactly like people don't know a [TS]

  regular people don't know like they would say I'm not a space at your new [TS]

  computer and I didn't knowingly do anything to make it slow so the US in [TS]

  must be the technology has progressed past me and it's time to get new [TS]

  hardware where you're absolutely right in reality it is well in john is right [TS]

  as well you know its mission Impossible operating system where [TS]

  every six months ago have to reinstall windows from scratch and especially [TS]

  without really good backup solutions or I mean this is a time before in home [TS]

  networks were a thing for the most part I and it was and it was very expensive [TS]

  to have three times as much harder spaces you actually need it right now [TS]

  herself through his accuser's are probably have the highest percentage of [TS]

  anybody just because Apple's incredible push with Time Machine and like the [TS]

  Apple store experience where there's likely to be someone during your [TS]

  purchase experience who told you the time she exists in this thing you might [TS]

  want to consider doing and it's not that hard but the percentage is probably just [TS]

  depressingly low for Mac users and even more depressing over regular people [TS]

  yesterday I would guess that's true but either way my point is that let's say [TS]

  you had and i dont member of really valid number of the time let's just say [TS]

  you had to give mp3's in early two thousands were gonna put that give mp3's [TS]

  while you're reinstalling everything on your hard drive and I mean you could [TS]

  burn it to CD and obviously there's many other options that existed but they were [TS]

  commonplace and that's assuming you're confident enough in your abilities to [TS]

  even reinstall windows of which eliminates 99% of the population to [TS]

  begin with everyone was just raced into the arms of the plants like devices like [TS]

  iPods and smartphones because I mean that's that's the story is like okay [TS]

  people are buying PCs by because they replace their PCs with a smartphone or [TS]

  with an iPod over the combination because if you had to give mp3 you're [TS]

  probably pretty to begin with and but if anyone with the gang of mp3's who is not [TS]

  guilty probably has it on a phone and ipod that works more like an appliance [TS]

  that gives them a fighting chance of preserving that in some way like like [TS]

  they trashed their PC they get a new one but it just plug the iPod into an assist [TS]

  you want to sync with this I don't even know if you do that crap but like I [TS]

  would imagine that the lifeboat for their music is these small hand-held [TS]

  appliance like the license and is not so much like how they like them better [TS]

  businessman handheld and people have to have phone anyways just a day work [TS]

  there's so much so much more friendly to people there you know you can't screw it [TS]

  up you can stop sign install apps is very little you can do anything [TS]

  specifically Apple devices but even even Android phones are much less [TS]

  intimidating a much less easy to accidentally screw up then a PC so yeah [TS]

  so surprised that people say well I can get facebook on this I can send text [TS]

  messages I can make phone calls I can look at the few websites I want to do [TS]

  and I get netflix on my TV y remind me again why I have a computer [TS]

  well thats I think that's why I like a lot of people a lot of people are [TS]

  assuming this report is is assuming that this decline in PC sales as is being [TS]

  caused by tablets and I think it's really being more caused by smartphones [TS]

  tablets and they they don't help matters but smartphones [TS]

  seems gotta be by far because like it's it's the stealing the growth market of [TS]

  the people who previously were going to buy a computer but now don't feel the [TS]

  need for one of those keep upgrading the phone every couple of years for similar [TS]

  cost to buying it really terrible PCs are way cheaper than you think they're [TS]

  done well by Costco and Sam's Club [TS]

  like the phone is a similar cost it's it's you know $2.99 for your fancy smart [TS]

  phone + the contract to your program anyway like that's that's factored in [TS]

  its like well you got a cell phone and data plans little more expensive that [TS]

  only 300 bucks but you could see an honestly you should buy three ended on [TS]

  smartphones that if you say it will be much more satisfied with only 10 at this [TS]

  in this day in age if you are at all interested in a new computer and you [TS]

  live in a first world country you probably have already owned one you know [TS]

  you're like you know ten years old but you've probably already own one and so [TS]

  you are faced not necessarily with the decision of should go out and buy a new [TS]

  PC this year but should I upgrade my PC this year and that I feel like people [TS]

  are doing so much more so much more on their phones now the phones have become [TS]

  the primary computing device for so many people that that like I feel like the [TS]

  so many people probably have this these great new smartphones whatever kinda [TS]

  really care these great new smartphones [TS]

  and then they have some laptop from 2008 that's like creaking and falling apart [TS]

  you know some Dell Inspiron piece of garbage and discreetly plastic thing [TS]

  that has been on XP on it that you know they hardly ever use maybe they open up [TS]

  a couple times a year to get some files or you know do something that they can [TS]

  do on their phone but like what's their motivation to upgrade the computer ever [TS]

  as long as it still works and even want to hear it breaks what's the motivation [TS]

  I have to wonder like how many people like this a minimum amount of computing [TS]

  space in the Internet age that you have to do to feel like you're part of [TS]

  society you have to do not necessarily have to have a Facebook page but [TS]

  probably have to have email and you probably have to know about the web and [TS]

  you know this is the baseline of like you are part of our regular first-world [TS]

  country society you have some connection to the Internet and electronic device [TS]

  and that's that's the thing that used to be bringing people on there by PCs but I [TS]

  wonder how many of the people like once you cross that baseline how many people [TS]

  use personal computers for leisure I guess getting quotes or whatever like [TS]

  where most of the time you're at work here commuting your you doin stuff you [TS]

  not like your leisure time a small for the working person during the day you [TS]

  have you had your job you have your family have always trusted you have a [TS]

  small man of leisure time per day they can watch TV go to a movie go out like [TS]

  whatever you want to do during that leisure time to engage in your hobbies [TS]

  how many people choose to take any portion of that leisure time and sit in [TS]

  front of a personal computer I would imagine it's a very small especially if [TS]

  they can get their sort of societal baseline participation in the Internet [TS]

  age all during the day by looking at their phone [TS]

  well i i wouldn't assume it's that small of people who want to to have computing [TS]

  like activities during that time I think I think especially social networking [TS]

  especially Facebook but even before that the actual games you know so I feel like [TS]

  we still in fact I would even say that it's probably likely that that number [TS]

  people is still increasing the number of people who would rather spend their [TS]

  leisure time either in a TV was obviously the big answers in the past [TS]

  and still is probably the predominant answer but now you have a especially as [TS]

  computers moved first to laptops and now just two phones and tablets so so [TS]

  predominantly now you have the option to be checking email and browsing Facebook [TS]

  while you have the TV on attention to it and that's a very popular option and [TS]

  there's a lot of people who just go to the computer room or the computer desk [TS]

  word over and spend their time their leisure time browsing Facebook and [TS]

  playing Little games and stuff instead of watching TV so that i think is is [TS]

  still growing and still has plenty of room to grow when i picture that I have [TS]

  trouble picture someone going on I guess maybe it's because I'm picturing a [TS]

  desktop computer that's why I can't picture it maybe if I picture a laptop [TS]

  in there on the couch anyway that seems more plausible but i just want to see [TS]

  them I see them getting this done throughout the course of the day with [TS]

  their phone and even when they're sitting and watching TV and having the [TS]

  next time I don't see anyone going off in your room with his desktop sitting on [TS]

  that chair and doing stuff for long periods of time and I don't see people [TS]

  so much sitting on the couch with a laptop so but I think that used to do [TS]

  that until phones and a little bit tablets but I don't know it's hard for [TS]

  me to gauge because like this circle of computer connectivity savvy surrounding [TS]

  me through my own influence of like my family and everything making them all go [TS]

  get iPods and computers and like I don't know what it's like outside that circle [TS]

  and also it's also worth considering the connectivity problems that certainly at [TS]

  your house [TS]

  people who have computers tend to have wifi these days usually comes for free [TS]

  with your internet connection but you know if if you if you want if you have a [TS]

  laptop and you want to bring any where most people don't tether most people [TS]

  don't have 3G cards no laptops most people in their laptops are only [TS]

  connected if they have wifi somewhere and despite what many geeks like to [TS]

  think wifi is nowhere near ubiquitous not even close and so but if they have a [TS]

  smartphone that's effectively always connected and so it's almost like I feel [TS]

  like computers now this isn't perfect but bear with me [TS]

  computers now are kind of like PDA's in [TS]

  like [TS]

  they were cool and you have their uses for them but these other things are [TS]

  coming up and then just destroying the relevance of that market because I wiped [TS]

  out like PDA is no it won't and that's why it's not a perfect analogy but it's [TS]

  i think it's a similar level of relevance to people now sort of what you [TS]

  forget as a spoiled person who works out of the house and doesn't have to go to [TS]

  an office i John and I is that even business people who don't under stricter [TS]

  sense they dare to their living isn't in the computer by that I mean they're not [TS]

  writing code or doing something along those lines business people still have [TS]

  PCs in droves because they need to do corporate email me to write Word [TS]

  documents and they need to write power points and so on and so forth so I don't [TS]

  think anything you've said is necessarily incorrect but I think we [TS]

  should point out that this is all true of outside of the workplace activities [TS]

  and all sorts of professions these days are still completely and utterly tied to [TS]

  having a computer in front of you always during the workday canary like to see [TS]

  like I don't know if that's a good question I got the study States going to [TS]

  be you know going forward like how the settlers sort of how how TV vs movies [TS]

  kind of settled in after the invention of television and you know it didn't [TS]

  worry about movies but the ratio sort of adjusted to a steady state but not as [TS]

  dramatic as there was no TV and all of a sudden there is check out but yeah once [TS]

  the once the majority of people are who would have gone into work and sign in [TS]

  front of a PC no longer do that and he said in front of something else that'll [TS]

  be the bell and that's why I think the PC won't you know like like the movie [TS]

  theater PC won't go away because there are certain tasks that depends on your [TS]

  PC [TS]

  a big screen with a nice keyboard that you sit in front of but actually all of [TS]

  this is a bunch of naked peripherals that you walk up to with your phone in a [TS]

  magical index is at a PC anymore is that your smartphone right I don't know the [TS]

  semantics and I'm saying like a thing with a large screen and more efficient [TS]

  input device that you can get in a handheld device [TS]

  whatever that thing is I'm just gonna continue calling it a PC I don't think [TS]

  people are going to go to work and not sit in front of the one of those are [TS]

  even like even if it's like you go to work and you [TS]

  put your hands into the neuro receptors and put on your glasses like the thing [TS]

  that thing that you that is at your desk lets you get your job done that's not [TS]

  going to be a phone because like the constraints of different you don't have [TS]

  it doesn't have to be small to fit in your pocket why why would it be no maybe [TS]

  the entire smart save your work experience are on something the size of [TS]

  a phone you carry with you but that that experience of you know taking advantage [TS]

  of the fact that you don't have to be battery-powered all the time and you [TS]

  don't have to fit into your pocket you can work more efficiently when those [TS]

  concerns you listed and I don't think that will go away but I do think those [TS]

  constraints don't apply to lots of activities like you know Dorking around [TS]

  on the web they're reading reading my pages are you now playing on Facebook [TS]

  using Twitter whatever like so many categories of things you don't need [TS]

  those constraints so I I think the the ratio will adjust between these smart [TS]

  devices and I think eventually it will start to blur where the only distinction [TS]

  really is how much room do you have for input-output peripherals and how much [TS]

  what is your power budget are you near a plug do you need to be portable that [TS]

  seems like what the long-term thing is where this distinction between smart [TS]

  phone to PC will be we'll keep trying to drive a little fuzzy line as they slowly [TS]

  you know emerged not that we're all using smartphones again but like you [TS]

  know once once the smart cuts and the input-output start becoming sort of [TS]

  interchangeable it really doesn't make sense to this kind of like you know me I [TS]

  pay came out of the closet to PC I don't like it throws the old categories for [TS]

  the only know how to talk about it I think stepping back a half step first I [TS]

  wonder how much of this PC sales downturn businesses are responsible for [TS]

  museum we know businesses by lots of PCs they always have and I don't think [TS]

  that's a silly changing however at least not yet as yummy as you said I think you [TS]

  know who knows what it will be in five or 10 years but certainly for now it [TS]

  does seem like everyone still buying PCs and using Office apps and stuff like [TS]

  that and that's I think it's going to be with us for quite some time but you know [TS]

  how much do you have any new PCs do businesses by in a recession where [TS]

  there's no new jobs for people you know if you don't if you aren't hiring a lot [TS]

  of people then you are buying PCs for new employees [TS]

  and some some Beano annual number of PCs that will fail or wear out or be lost by [TS]

  salesman and need to be replaced in any organization but beside that basic churn [TS]

  rate of replacements like what what reason would businesses have to upgrade [TS]

  their systems if they've found something that works for them like what what is [TS]

  the business world business software world offered to justify upgrades in the [TS]

  last 10 12 years but in my experience in the corporate studio world and the the [TS]

  upgrade rate doesn't seem to have changed much like that it seemed like [TS]

  the personal computers on people's best turned over at the same rate when I [TS]

  started in the job market and like the late nineties and now which is not [TS]

  particularly rapid one to three years in different countries have different [TS]

  policies and depends on the time of the size of the company and the bureaucracy [TS]

  in the kind of deals they have with Dell for their whatever the point but it [TS]

  wasn't like oh back back when the internet was new [TS]

  we got a new PC every year but now it's every three years I murder my career has [TS]

  been a similar turnover rate was just surprised but surprisingly slow for me [TS]

  like to the point where most of the people have a PC that they're using that [TS]

  they think is old and crappy and they don't like but they start to wait [TS]

  another year before they can get a new I would agree with that I would actually [TS]

  also double down and say that in my experience and and I work for a fairly [TS]

  small consulting firm in Richmond but we consult with fairly large companies some [TS]

  of which are you know fortune 1000 fortune 500 or something like that big [TS]

  is the point in driving out and in both our firm and and and our clients i've [TS]

  seen a MacBook Air application of general laptops in the workplace and by [TS]

  that I mean not necessarily everyone's getting a MacBook Air but almost [TS]

  everyone I know that it doesn't write code for a living some regular people [TS]

  they're all getting either MacBook Airs and that does happen or they're getting [TS]

  whatever Dell or Lenovo equivalent is that's very thin very small very light [TS]

  and very portable [TS]

  and I kinda goes back to what you were saying John about you know what will the [TS]

  future bring its portability really paramount and it seems like even for [TS]

  people who don't travel for a living everyone had a laptop now and everyone's [TS]

  got something that vaguely resembles MacBook Air and and or is a MacBook Air [TS]

  and furthermore a lot of times I wonder if the PC sales downturns are related to [TS]

  Apple doing better in the business world and you could attribute that to maybe [TS]

  people bringing their own devices and I T departments being forced into [TS]

  supporting them you could say it's because I T is chosen to support them [TS]

  but one way or another it seems like a lot of see a lot more max today than I [TS]

  ever have before and I don't think that's a particularly profound statement [TS]

  or observation and so I wonder if that's reflected in this report the sighting [TS]

  Marco that that PCs aren't selling as well I wonder also how much has to do [TS]

  with because so many business computers used to be desk jobs and so many of them [TS]

  in our laptops even for like regular employees that that probably could have [TS]

  a desktop for so many businesses now laptops are the new default or the most [TS]

  common type that they buy laptops don't last as long as desktops in in use [TS]

  you know like they first of all if you if you have some kind of turnover like [TS]

  you know if if you if you come into a job it wouldn't be that unheard of for [TS]

  them to give you somebody else's desktop that's like a year and a half old that [TS]

  snow still works fine for your job purposes then you get someone else's [TS]

  computer you might if you're looking at a new keyboard that's about it but with [TS]

  a laptop like a it so much harder sell to use someones used laptop because [TS]

  you're talking about a second well but how use because laptop show where as [TS]

  likely to replace a keeper for $12 and it looks new but a laptop like someone [TS]

  else [TS]

  out there in the real world ok well the other thing is at least also with [TS]

  laptops that they tend to have two major problems one is that they just because [TS]

  their portable because they're gonna have been around a bit [TS]

  they I don't think they tend to last as long as you understand right and the [TS]

  second thing is a very very common problem is a new screen repair and [TS]

  screen repairs usually once had a warrant either almost never worth doing [TS]

  because they're so expensive laptop so I feel like in general I if I had to guess [TS]

  I would guess that the that the average business laptop is in service for less [TS]

  time than the average Business Desktop that would make you think they'd be [TS]

  replacing the more I see I see how the PCs are treated in the office now [TS]

  there's so many more of them I feel like Adobe owes the world like some [TS]

  restitution for their / destroys laptop PC it like I see these point when he was [TS]

  like yeah they do like Google handover never thought I'd like anything that [TS]

  involves / whenever I'm in a meeting and I hear someone's tiny little high rpm [TS]

  laptop fan going it's a good bet to work around their screen had some tablets I'm [TS]

  stupid flash thing and I hear it you know that sound to the laptop of the [TS]

  fans cranked up unless you're doing like H 264 encoding or something that [TS]

  shouldn't be happening your work machine but it's so common and I'm like that's [TS]

  good things in your coffee on and around and drop in on the table and tipping off [TS]

  your desk and all the other terrible things that happened to laptops on top [TS]

  of that they're all running hotter than they should be [TS]

  flash and the other thing I should point out is that again being as part of a [TS]

  small firm think we have somewhere around 80 employees at small yea oh my [TS]

  god you have no idea but anyways so being part of a small firm believer not [TS]

  we are relatively progressive in so we have been issuing max to people that are [TS]

  not developers and we've been issuing them to developers for a while because [TS]

  the developers are demanding it but [TS]

  one of the reasons that we are very reluctant to issue max to regular people [TS]

  whom don't really need it is that really use of whom now probably not I get [TS]

  yelled at so many times as who that guy whatever it doesn't matter the point of [TS]

  every time I say who every time the point of driving at is that the reason [TS]

  we don't get max more often is because dell has such an unbelievably great worn [TS]

  two year warranty but service plan such that you can pretty much dropkick Adele [TS]

  and they will be there either that day or the next day with whatever part you [TS]

  need there will come to our office they will fix it and you'll be done within 24 [TS]

  hours how much of these days PC vendors to realize how much they owe to Apple's [TS]

  complete indifference to the enterprise not they're just not interested but Del [TS]

  comes in return that's nice people doing on site help is laughable there there [TS]

  are like Apple business liaisons in like they make motions in that direction but [TS]

  they're not willing to do what it takes not nor should they be as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned like I think they're wise to stay out of that business it's poison [TS]

  but by Apple being so terribly business and so terrible service businesses [TS]

  compared to you no doubt heard any other resellers PC recently was here just [TS]

  willing to do anything for you and just have a machine raid execute that is it's [TS]

  got to be keeping many crappy PC companies afloat because like you know [TS]

  like a said I have also experienced an incredible increase in recent years of [TS]

  regular non geek people who want apple hardware whether they're gonna be phones [TS]

  to replace that Blackberry or laptops to replace their laptops and are willing to [TS]

  make noise about it and make it happen and companies and that that is a fairly [TS]

  new phenomenon in my work experience where it used to be people were a little [TS]

  bit disgruntled new look at the new Little Mac everything out whatever I [TS]

  gotta get my work done but now likely across some sort of threshold where like [TS]

  you know what what why can't I have a Mac I think that would be nice and then [TS]

  the party companies have to [TS]

  local gets it and what happens when it goes bad like I T people have my horror [TS]

  stories like I had to go to the Apple store like that's not how it works [TS]

  you're not supposed to take human beings to carry your computer to a store in a [TS]

  mall that is not how corporate I T works when it wants that happened so that [TS]

  tension still exists there and I don't think I'm interested in that market and [TS]

  so I don't know how that's going to resolve itself because the people wanted [TS]

  but it's terrible experience for corporate I T [TS]

  gets worse because the particular MacBook Pro I have a 15 inch non retin a [TS]

  late 2011 and we put 16 gigs RAM in this thing and most my co-workers have [TS]

  basically the same machine and one of the machine one of my coworkers machines [TS]

  there his mother board got fried somehow and so RIT got a Mac I believe it's [TS]

  called a logic board over San Marco email but anyway about whom as well but [TS]

  anyway the point I'm driving it is is that the the RIT guy who's an awesome [TS]

  awesome awesome guy he took it to the mall to the local Apple store which is [TS]

  literally three miles from our office and they took one look at it and said oh [TS]

  this model doesn't support 16 gigs of ram that's why fried motherboard the [TS]

  logic board that'll be $700 police and you think Dell would do that absolutely [TS]

  not tell why did he go to the most I got my was I was just about to give [TS]

  disclaimers likely is done right now has actual business service now this was [TS]

  like stories from along time ago on campus are breaking up with this recent [TS]

  where your ideal guy went to the bar I don't think we have resellers around 80 [TS]

  people but like that there are there bars around you'll do that stuff for you [TS]

  but I think you an apple itself as programs that you can get into if you're [TS]

  any kind of company to not have to bring things to the Apple store and then I [TS]

  have a business account guided the Apple Store come to your house now go there [TS]

  but it doesn't come like with replacing Peter in his hand and hand it off to you [TS]

  just take the computer computer way I do think that for people I don't even know [TS]

  down down the Dell experiences like or any kind of like 90 days they come you [TS]

  get the news thing for the text thing within like two hours and your problem [TS]

  is solved 3 imaged everything's back the way it was like that [TS]

  operate is supposed to work and Human Services same type of things like a four [TS]

  hour window like you know you see hardware goes down your stupid support [TS]

  contract supposed to have a geek with the neckbeard parachuting into your [TS]

  house and that's the thing is it's all free and then my poor I T guy he goes to [TS]

  Apple and they say okay that'll be $700 and by the way we need to send this [TS]

  thing to God knows where in order to get it done I mean how is what why would he [TS]

  buy anymore max ok first of all I don't think it's possible for an unspecified [TS]

  for an unapproved quantity of rammed for a logic board that's exactly what he he [TS]

  failed the the number one rule of Apple do it yourself there party RAM upgrades [TS]

  which is always keep the Apple RAM and put it back and put it back in whenever [TS]

  you bring it in for service [TS]

  absolutely right but it doesn't negate the point that that is a really for lack [TS]

  of a better word offensive experience for him and why would you continue to [TS]

  buy apples knowing that if anything breaks he the person the owner screwed [TS]

  and he's screwed for an Emmy thats detention center and Yeti Kai Eide [TS]

  doesn't want to buy Apple employees want apple and this is this constant struggle [TS]

  but like the tide has been shifting used to be that I just held the line no you [TS]

  cannot enact their nomadic this company period no you can't bring your Mac from [TS]

  home like that was the old story and that slowly shifted once people get [TS]

  their foot in the door like I was thus far as I know I was the first officially [TS]

  corporate purchase Mac in my company like four years ago right now if you [TS]

  when you get hired I believe it is an option for most people to say they would [TS]

  like Max and tons of people have requested max invite often they get a [TS]

  Mac alongside their their del so they have their Dell thing there like 430 [TS]

  work computer but they also have a work purchased MacBook Air MacBook Pro [TS]

  something like that really think what happened was Apple attacks from the top [TS]

  their Apple made Prada and I don't know if this was intentional or not probably [TS]

  not but Apple made products that were so good that the bosses start wanting them [TS]

  and so it depends on how I feel like how soon Maxwell permissible or supported in [TS]

  your I T in the structure of your work probably depends a lot on on you know [TS]

  how high up the I Department ranks authority wise and how long it took for [TS]

  somebody who ranks above them in authority to want to bring in their own [TS]

  iPhone or iPad or MacBook Air the bosses made that brought the iPhones in [TS]

  alongside and the MacBook Airs blackberries maybe but I would say the [TS]

  developers if you have a company with whiny developers and they're the ones [TS]

  who brought the max in like the desktop type of thing they want to develop a [TS]

  UNIX system software but you can also do go east of Long one machine no cygwin no [TS]

  Linux services like that those are the two portals like you know c-level [TS]

  executives make anything happen cuz they run the company and they want an iPhone [TS]

  they're going to get one in the cascades max although for my experience c-level [TS]

  executives have not been clamoring for Macs are perfectly happy to sit there [TS]

  were there whatever the ThinkPad is because they really don't know how to [TS]

  use computers that shows what companies I work drive not work for companies with [TS]

  the CEOs or computer nerds on site and as a yes offer consulting firm when I [TS]

  knew that the tightest had turned when one of our c-level execs and remembers [TS]

  title of which is funny cause it's like for c-level execs but anyway he had been [TS]

  asked for a retina MacBook Pro when the 15 inch Retina MacBook Pro is pretty [TS]

  much brand new and that was the first time I'd seen a critical business person [TS]

  have a Mac and since then I'd say it's a 50 50 split between Macs and PCs but all [TS]

  of the business people are all getting things like I was talking about earlier [TS]

  that are approximately the same form factor is a MacBook Air whether or not [TS]

  there's a apple on the on the despite ultrabooks it's one of my love I love [TS]

  you know this is this is something that the PC industry does all the time and it [TS]

  isn't just the PC industry that does this but but they certainly do it a lot [TS]

  because you take something was having some success and you immediately genera [TS]

  sizes and start discussing it as if its category even if it's not really [TS]

  like tablet exactly tablet even even like PDA is back when like pretty much [TS]

  the only game in town was palm and and the the palm pilots actually before it [TS]

  was it was the us- Robotics pilot 1000 I think first but it isn't just Apple that [TS]

  gets targeted but this it's it's you know any company that has some kind of [TS]

  innovative thing the the analysts and the press Start genera sizing it because [TS]

  they want to be a category because then you know it it's better for them and [TS]

  there's more talk about it more interesting and it like it is totally [TS]

  sucks the life and originality out of the out of the originator I guess you [TS]

  know so definitely happen with tablets and then of course happen with [TS]

  ultrabooks [TS]

  gets Ultrabook was the generic name for MacBook Airs that's like everything that [TS]

  looks exactly like them and has had its generic but it's like it's kind of [TS]

  sometimes it doesn't happen like podcast didn't happen with I don't know they [TS]

  tried to do like broadcast audio Internet audio podcast stock and that [TS]

  became the kleenex of you know overdue Leo Laporte tried to make NetCast and [TS]

  that it's in distance take outside of his network sometimes sometimes you just [TS]

  can't get out of the way but like its a good Apple didn't have a generic name [TS]

  for the MacBook Air system which amounts to all iPad could have potentially stock [TS]

  but you know they tablet tablet had been pre-existing microsoft windows for pen [TS]

  computing and all the great things like tablets have been around for ages but [TS]

  that's not that's not what might the iPad was so different but it's a [TS]

  rectangle doesn't take much like that that generic term had been out there you [TS]

  didn't have to go now you know there are usually the old tablet PC from the think [TS]

  it was a late nineties early 2001 Microsoft did there like second or third [TS]

  version of what they call tablet PC and it was actually decent it was like that [TS]

  you know they had the convertible ones yet have a little strong hands and yes [TS]

  my friend [TS]

  and it was it was actually really interesting to use but it was it was [TS]

  similar to that if you imagine using Windows 8 only in desktop mode on a [TS]

  device with no keyboard you know that's why they felt was like there were some [TS]

  affordances for pan and put in some applications and the system would be no [TS]

  therapy on-screen keyboard kinda happily as needed but it wasn't it wasn't very [TS]

  polished or robust system it wasn't in its funny you bring it up because my [TS]

  wife is a schoolteacher high school teacher and when she was in college or [TS]

  university depending where you are and she was actually given a one of these [TS]

  tablets these Microsoft tablets to use during her in class training which [TS]

  student teaching contain the name of that for a second there and I don't [TS]

  recall why she liked it she was like the only person on the planet that really [TS]

  really liked having one of these pen-based Windows machines are often [TS]

  asked her after the show what it was that she liked about it but she swore by [TS]

  my friend loved his I mean it was it was really great for note-taking especially [TS]

  it especially if you're standing up like you would be with love teaching and and [TS]

  a lot of professions you know a lot of times it's just can't you can't actually [TS]

  it's kinda hard to like sit down and open it up and type but even even [TS]

  without that lady was like handwriting and if if your if you hand write a lot [TS]

  of your notes that's probably still a better experience in using iPad people [TS]

  like that for the same reason like all the good things that we like about iPads [TS]

  now a tiny fraction of those were present in any sort of tablet form [TS]

  factor thing and like Microsoft really snatch defeat from the jaws of victory [TS]

  with the whole tablet thing because they they were just investing in its so early [TS]

  and so often and you know i i think people with the stupid things I was just [TS]

  terrible plastic hardware and everything but like there was enough of the things [TS]

  we love about the iPad the fact that you can use it on your lap the fact that you [TS]

  could touch it if you want to you know like all that stuff was like it's the [TS]

  time but it is enough in there were people like hey this things bendy crap [TS]

  about this something about it that I kinda like John to it and so yeah I'd [TS]

  like more that but Microsoft could not get out of its own way to get i mean [TS]

  it's obvious now in retrospect what they should have done [TS]

  but like you know I said is about all the things they were they were just too [TS]

  same thing with Windows CE and and and Windows Mobile area they were two [TS]

  married to windows everywhere PC everywhere that is the paradigm you know [TS]

  they would never done anything like the iPad whereas you know no application [TS]

  compatibility with the Mac who looks nothing like the Mac works nothing like [TS]

  them back if Microsoft had done that you know back when it was playing with all [TS]

  these things it would have liked chance for chances for complete chances to [TS]

  screw up before the iPad even existed instead every single and was like are [TS]

  you gonna start menu on your phone you like kiddingly a start menu my phone [TS]

  like that this is just didn't get it so they had it was all there for the taking [TS]

  they just could not get out of their own way couldn't get rid of Windows and [TS]

  Office like the story of Microsoft and you know what's really funny is content [TS]

  to use Virginia Tech in they have a really really great engineering program [TS]

  and i'm looking at the Virginia Tech College of Engineering fall 2013 spring [TS]

  2014 computer requirement because everyone is required to bring computer [TS]

  glass windows 7 or 8 Professional 64 bit processor 3rd gen core i-five blah blah [TS]

  blah blah blah input device integrated Wacom Wacom Wacom whatever it's called [TS]

  entry or a spin or companion slate / tablet that is required how to this day [TS]

  that is this year's computer requirement weird huh that's really interesting and [TS]

  supposedly I don't know anyone that's in school anymore but on way too old for [TS]

  that but I've heard rumblings that there are some things about it that are really [TS]

  great and a lot of things that are really terrible in one thing I was gonna [TS]

  bring up was even way back when when when we were talking about in the early [TS]

  2000 when these Penn computers worked sort of kind of popular one of the [TS]

  things I think a lot of people liked about it mark I think he alluded to this [TS]

  was no taking specifically one note which was a Microsoft Office app that I [TS]

  have used actually is really darn good for taking notes and it's very free-form [TS]

  and I'm sure there's a quiz on the iPad now that I'm not even aware of but at [TS]

  the time it kind of stood by itself is a really really awesome note taking out [TS]

  and like you said Marco when you can do that with a pan that it's it's no [TS]

  different than paper really it was probably different but it's it's it's a [TS]

  way better than using a capacitive stylus capacitive screen you really if [TS]

  your gonna be hand writing notes or doing anything with a pen on a regular [TS]

  basis you really want a resistive screen or whatever the Wacom Wacom ones are [TS]

  they just a special kind of capacitive pressure sensitive to this to several [TS]

  yes he wanted that your hand will not trigger basically all this pressure and [TS]

  the president is also proximity detection so this capacitive touch [TS]

  proximity detection which I'm not sure that works and then play no pressure [TS]

  sensitive all the pumps are pressure-sensitive you have to press on [TS]

  the screen to make a registry thing the Windows tablet things in the wake of [TS]

  tablets I believe have proximity they could tell when the pen is near to be as [TS]

  it hasn't even touched it yet and I think that's right now the currently the [TS]

  current weight come with a believe its law com but I always say Wacom she was [TS]

  fun just like you know that he should have gotten their website and maybe they [TS]

  do but we have not looked at it but now I think with a kindly do is they do the [TS]

  person city in the pen if I'm correct I don't know that one point they've done [TS]

  this were like the pressure sensitive devices inside the pen and the service [TS]

  that you're drawing hundreds not actually give like the old-time screens [TS]

  used to give I think they vote I think all the walking Wacom tablet I think [TS]

  they've always done that the dependence is somehow smart but somehow doesn't use [TS]

  a battery out enough to power itself or what [TS]

  pretty cool anyway once a quick break and thank our sponsor Squarespace [TS]

  christmas is a do it yourself website platform [TS]

  building a website extremely easy to design they start you with our beautiful [TS]

  and simple all you gotta do is add your content and that's it i mean it's it is [TS]

  so good they they want you to focus on your business your art your music your [TS]

  passions they don't want you to have to worry about coding your website hosting [TS]

  your website upgrading your website they do all of that for you and if you want [TS]

  to jump in there and get super tiny you know type [TS]

  migraine control over it if you want to do your own CSS your own JavaScript you [TS]

  can do that but you don't have to you can use their built-in templates you can [TS]

  even sell stuff they have this new thing called Squarespace commerce if you want [TS]

  to sell digital or physical goods they do everything the integrated into other [TS]

  templates they have credit card processing set up for you they have [TS]

  coupons invoicing they have so much stuff all built in for you and even if [TS]

  you aren't selling anything it's a great place to host portfolios websites are [TS]

  our website is their ATP . FM if you go there you can see that's one of their [TS]

  default templates we had to do almost nothing beyond the defaults to make it [TS]

  exactly how we wanted it's really really great so check out Squarespace [TS]

  whether you are creating professional your business owner or you simply need [TS]

  an online presence they make it easy go start a free trial at Squarespace dot [TS]

  com if you decide to continue with your site it's only $8 a month and it's even [TS]

  less if you use the offer could ATP 44 accident talk podcast the month before [TS]

  use coupon code ATP for a check out and you get an additional 10% off their [TS]

  already affordable prices to go check out Squarespace it's everything you need [TS]

  to create an exceptional website going back a second there was some news or [TS]

  rumor is something we are so ill-prepared for the show there there [TS]

  were some news or rumor something that microsoft office for iOS was delayed or [TS]

  something there's something about office for Iowa's this week was not there was a [TS]

  leak to schedule that's that some sort of leak supposedly documentary Inside [TS]

  microsoft office for office for tablet type systems as 2014 and so like [TS]

  everyone saying that while they're not gonna really surprised West before they [TS]

  release it for a Windows RT or whatever and therefore if there is an iOS version [TS]

  of Office has not come until 2014 to think it was just the point was that [TS]

  lots of people thought maybe this year Microsoft would ship office for iOS and [TS]

  this supposedly unverified leaks thing from inside Microsoft had the number [TS]

  2049 2013 and that's that's the sort of person do you think I mean [TS]

  you know as we were discussing 15 minutes ago about businesses and their [TS]

  computer usage and everything do you really think that office for iPad is [TS]

  going to be a big deal if it ever does come out like in the sense that the ship [TS]

  they waited too long like I yeah it's like the longer they wait the less [TS]

  important or relevant it becomes an ID I'm not turning up my nose it because I [TS]

  think it will be useful I think the most interesting thing about office for iOS [TS]

  is how the hell that dance between these two covers is going to work or the [TS]

  Scarborough and this mouse decided upon Microsoft like as Microsoft gonna give I [TS]

  guess they're gonna give up to 30% of their office sales like that is just [TS]

  mean like I don't even know how it's going to work or is it going to be like [TS]

  free in app purchase a subscription and OB subscription only so Microsoft gets [TS]

  recurring revenue and they don't mind giving up 30 percent I don't know and [TS]

  what is a good look like and how it's gonna file compatibility will use iCloud [TS]

  will with the Dropbox integration we need to sign up remarks on SkyDrive and [TS]

  servers and there are so many unanswered questions about how would this is like a [TS]

  fish bicycle scenario houses even gonna work I don't understand and that to me [TS]

  is much more interesting than does the ipad something because it has office [TS]

  think people care about that when I don't know if I'd be so sure I think [TS]

  your average consumer your average business consumer is assuming that the [TS]

  iPad is a break that is useless for doing normal day-to-day business things [TS]

  because it doesn't have office right now as it turns out I think that's bogus but [TS]

  I think you're jo Jo smoke and business consumer I bet you it will be a big [TS]

  mental shift once it's available that stage piano like it'll it'll be the same [TS]

  way the keynote is available iOS and Mac so no matter what presentation you have [TS]

  to work identically in both places right now [TS]

  like you know the crazy like oh you in bed this Excel chart discharged in this [TS]

  thing and this PowerPoint and Excel document on the updated excel doc [TS]

  this is still use that stuff you can't do that on iOS like this just no way [TS]

  like you have to it's not going to work the same as doesn't stop and that I [TS]

  found as the bar it's like you know cause I have office on my Mac but you [TS]

  know people still turn their nose up at 10 rightfully so business like passing [TS]

  around what should be a text file but instead it's a word document that for [TS]

  some reason has some crazy macro thing into something and it doesn't look right [TS]

  on your Mac so just just open your V em and just don't even bother with this [TS]

  like if it's not 100% compatible like I I found an amazing variety appointments [TS]

  variety but an amazing variety in the features of these individual files that [TS]

  people use an officer windows and at having office in the Mac like maybe gets [TS]

  the foot in the door maybe check the checkbox but in practice all the time I [TS]

  come across documents do not look the same on the Mac and PC so what hope is [TS]

  there really that someone's going to be able to take a document somehow spirited [TS]

  over to your iPad and it will function correctly there even just interviewing [TS]

  for editing just like would look the same when I open it very little faith [TS]

  that this will be so I think it'll be the same time of nama well it's got [TS]

  office and it will get in the door but in practice gonna be like look if you [TS]

  didn't created an iOS is gonna look different there something you might not [TS]

  work and if you wanna see that are real budgeting spreadsheet you have to open [TS]

  on a PC and I would say also that's not that different from the status quo I [TS]

  mean right now like you're you're totally right that if it's gonna be like [TS]

  a different edition of office if it's gonna work differently at all looking [TS]

  almost certainly would have to then that's going to be like a major problem [TS]

  for integrating into businesses but right now we already have that right now [TS]

  we have pages and you know we have I work on iOS so we already have something [TS]

  a situation now where people can open MS Office documents on their iOS devices [TS]

  and a half and right and it kind of works [TS]

  and if you're coordinating with someone else who's using the PC version you'll [TS]

  probably have issues or you'll have your having consistencies and weird for many [TS]

  problems I mean it at our office people still send over documents emails and [TS]

  make web pages with links that the URL links is G Cohen backslash because i [TS]

  dont have the G drive or or or triple slash you know like you know share name [TS]

  for like a share this mountain and every species because 90% like that's how the [TS]

  world works and it's like if you are you go i click on the link and nothing [TS]

  happened there gonna be like I was just looking to see it works out [TS]

  that's the world the max come into and that's why I like the people who get [TS]

  them like people who can support themselves because I he doesn't support [TS]

  that they can't make everyone stopped offering documents with PC specific [TS]

  features or pads to shares that are not mounted just backslashes works fine for [TS]

  me when my Windows machine and see what the problem is I completely agree my [TS]

  point is simply that I think you yourself it's at this John it gets the [TS]

  foot in the door in it at least let it become part of the conversation [TS]

  whereas I think for an average business users there's no office it's not even a [TS]

  discussion there I'm not even gonna give it a shot in reality even if there is [TS]

  office it's gonna be a piece of garbage not because it's Microsoft just because [TS]

  there's way too much complexity for that platform but I think just having it [TS]

  there would be a big win in the sense that it would at least let the iPad [TS]

  enter the conversation Windows 8 is really the entry of tablet computer in [TS]

  the office in theory like once once the fuel and and Windows 89 laptop laptops [TS]

  will become the real deal and I see no reason if Microsoft is able to keep [TS]

  going on this course that they can't produce was essentially that thing that [TS]

  you know they do convertible tablet we're just talking about essentially [TS]

  that but the non crappy version because now finally in something that's with [TS]

  like with no keyboard attachment maybe the clicky keyboard or maybe you know [TS]

  full-size keyboard than blue suit or whatever [TS]

  suddenly you have real computing power a reasonable small [TS]

  screen maybe the possibility to like hook it up to another screen like it's a [TS]

  dockable laptop without a keyboard that turns into the hole is all Windows a [TS]

  concept and I think that is a reasonable concept for business because if it's an [TS]

  x86 and there you can run the route 30 versions of Office we're just talking to [TS]

  be incompatible with like you know the 97 documents that people are still [TS]

  passing around companies all over the world but like thats that will move [TS]

  things on and i think thats Microsoft goal is like a we would like to see a [TS]

  Windows 87 Ultrabook a Windows 8 tablet but really mostly gets uses PC but also [TS]

  doubles as a taboo movies like that's what they're going for and that seems [TS]

  reasonable to me and once that happens then it's like well everyone else has [TS]

  these little things look like squares that you carry can I have this thing [TS]

  with the Apple logo on the back to square the you carry and the distinction [TS]

  as Annex A six runs my office I think that would be even less of america's [TS]

  electorate well that's a rectangle two dozen of office yeah but they don't know [TS]

  that that doesn't help you [TS]

  well i think i mean it's worth considering [TS]

  would Microsoft withhold office from iOS as a competitive advantage to boot [TS]

  Windows 8 tablets just got done with you think I don't know why I think I haven't [TS]

  worked on the project with gust 0 at the moment the iPad was announced that go [TS]

  get the mattress here they need to get working office that maybe they didn't do [TS]

  that but at this point it's not like they're holding it back they just have [TS]

  not been scrambling to get it maybe they probably are scrambling to finish this [TS]

  point but yeah I don't I just think it's a factor of 10 size and syncing with [TS]

  whatever the crazy stretches gonna be for pricing figuring all that they just [TS]

  started on it when they finally got all their ducks in a row what they were [TS]

  going to do and they're writing it and it will be done is done I don't believe [TS]

  that I i honestly I think right now maybe two years ago I would have [TS]

  believed that they wanted office everywhere and they're gonna put it on [TS]

  the iPad ok but now now that they have their own alternative to the iPad [TS]

  they're they're competing directly with iPads and iOS four professional / [TS]

  business / office use I can see them totally wanted to keep Microsoft Office [TS]

  and and you know quote the real microsoft office they've already you [TS]

  that as a selling point that these these are tablets ego you can also get real [TS]

  work done on I can see the morning to keep that exclusive and not ever making [TS]

  an iPad version of Office now make money maybe to be crappy maybe be you know [TS]

  like it's made by different team not really compatible I think it'll [TS]

  eventually be there once they get everything sorted already mean their [TS]

  tablets and iPads don't like they're they're milking the exclusivity period [TS]

  now it's not I don't think I don't think it's anything to be gained by then like [TS]

  extending it out for years and years like you know like I mean why do they [TS]

  keep making Office for the Mac you know they're not they're not about to yank [TS]

  that away and say well you always want to get a PC like they make money on [TS]

  these things like that's the bottom line like the night business makes the money [TS]

  and I'm sure office for iOS well as well in the price it as a whole $9.99 and or [TS]

  or maybe it'll be you know a recurring subscription and I don't even know ya [TS]

  know what to do but I'm sure whatever they do it will make the money another [TS]

  thing to consider is and and i'm talking a little bit out of my wheelhouse now [TS]

  but I know I've heard a lot of rumblings around our office that it would be [TS]

  considerably cheaper for us to start using Microsoft [TS]

  their office 365 or whatever it is which I don't know barely anything about but [TS]

  apparently is all I can think its web based its like Google Docs and Google [TS]

  spreadsheet or whatever but anyway apparently there's some office 365 thing [TS]

  whatever that means that I'm being told is actually considerably cheaper and I [TS]

  believe that's a subscription-based thing regardless of its native software [TS]

  or if its web based its subscription and so that that makes me wonder john if [TS]

  you're absolutely right that if something arrived on the iPad may be [TS]

  either be part of this office 365 thing or it would at the very least via [TS]

  subscription one way or the other [TS]

  description bug in there but for so many years and it's just such a hard sell [TS]

  like Adobe to manage to pull it off but they've managed to not have just taken [TS]

  to a backlash Adobe did this description they may continue to sell alongside and [TS]

  it's a type of thing for people I think mentally resist the notion of 10 have to [TS]

  pay every year for this thing but I think once they get on that train and if [TS]

  you do really well if you actually if if it's not just the same exact experience [TS]

  you had before [TS]

  only now you pay every single year if it's like oh well now you get your [TS]

  updates instantly and as I think we never have to worry about licensing like [TS]

  you know you give all the benefits you could possibly have a description of you [TS]

  can deliver on those benefits I think it is possible to bring the ideas into that [TS]

  people are already paying like whatever the hell thing you pay microsoft they're [TS]

  like you get access to all our software for free you know like those deals and [TS]

  they make with companies are you ok with your licensed this endeavor you pay this [TS]

  amount of money for Exchange server and you get unlimited number of seats in it [TS]

  and he any software in our library that you want you can download licensed three [TS]

  versions of it and distribute you know that is basically a subscription but it [TS]

  must be renegotiated repurchase and stuff it would be nice to review its [TS]

  automated through your computer is connected to the big Microsoft servers [TS]

  and money flows from your company into there is every year that's the dream [TS]

  isn't that what dotnet originally meant was it wasn't the dotnet initiative [TS]

  original the one of the names for their subscription plans to return the covered [TS]

  many different things but I was associated with the common language [TS]

  runtime and you know that whole big ball acts I thought it related to like their [TS]

  Microsoft Live before was Microsoft Live MSN Live whatever they're calling it now [TS]

  I think it was it was done a passport that's one thinking oh yeah but i mean [TS]

  but most people don't know his darnedest out now just like iCloud as I clubs [TS]

  iCloud even though under the hood its many different technologies doing many [TS]

  different things [TS]

  the point is don't use iCloud said we have some person to get there a [TS]

  projected because they're iCloud download wouldn't completely and I was [TS]

  testing it got rejected there is in everyone's got their limit and who knows [TS]

  if that was even with the actual problem that are being but that's what he [TS]

  thought it wasn't so it's like very well I will not repeat them up and start over [TS]

  I want to pull pulled the [TS]

  when I pulled the print feature out of its two papers I iOS apps which actually [TS]

  by the way still angers like three people who used it but the sprint [TS]

  feature [TS]

  rejected twice and then during one of the big guy OS upgrades I think going [TS]

  from [TS]

  going from four to five something broke about it really badly and I was like you [TS]

  know what I probably spent more time testing this feature just using it in [TS]

  development then all of my customers combined have used the future [TS]

  misleading name for a says right there Instapaper doesn't instantly turn things [TS]

  into paper I'm once they are useless when I remove each year and like three [TS]

  people get angry but most people I asked on Twitter pay on the street because [TS]

  it's it's being problematic to support and almost every response was you can [TS]

  print from Instapaper [TS]

  no one even knew that was there and I have to wonder like and this is kind of [TS]

  office related like how many people print from iOS devices I mean I've never [TS]

  seen someone do it nor have I ever done it myself [TS]

  the only person I know that doesn't regularly is my father who is very [TS]

  forward thinking but for some reason he likes him some pieces of paper and so I [TS]

  know he does apparently terrible terrible man he'd prints are last I [TS]

  heard anyway he prints from his iPad somewhat regularly in firms iPhone as [TS]

  well I think but I know it's one of those people just like paper and the [TS]

  airport it's it's one of those really cool technology is that's just come out [TS]

  way too late it's like like black CD ours is the one that had the black it [TS]

  will they were pretty they would've been really cool to come out like five years [TS]

  earlier the PlayStation had [TS]

  yeah they were all black [TS]

  this technology like their princes is this awesome technology there's no more [TS]

  print drivers as long as your printer supports this one particular technology [TS]

  it is a choice a business a business innovation like finally we had to [TS]

  leverage to force the damn printer manufacturers to stop makin the [TS]

  Byzantines do of crazy as hardware into they know you do it all yourself talk to [TS]

  you one way take it you print it not only hear about it you don't get them so [TS]

  many drivers do it like this that's that's why printers have been so [TS]

  terrible that is not a technology problems [TS]

  a business problem because printers are made by various companies operations [TS]

  were made by others in this thing called the driver exists an ambitious never [TS]

  going to be a happy ending [TS]

  printers were like soft printers like soft motives were like that the printer [TS]

  itself would do very minimal computing power and and would do almost all know [TS]

  that the recent innovation that was actually exciting thing that was like [TS]

  finally it's gonna solve the spending problem we're gonna make the printer [TS]

  super diamond probably smart the driver that a problem right there just moved it [TS]

  around like really really need to do is just say that you don't get to install [TS]

  driver this is what we're going to put out there you'll receive it and you will [TS]

  print it and if you don't your printer will appear to be broken and that's it [TS]

  was like the legacy computing podcast is talking about cassette tapes next year [TS]

  on a man with a pencil pros and cons and rewind let's let's wrap it up thanks [TS]

  again to our sponsor Squarespace gonna scream / ATP to get a free [TS]

  trial and credited us with that referral and check it out if you wanna make a [TS]

  website [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin we want to shell for people to [TS]

  reviewers night those people let's do it let's won't you please your viewers on [TS]

  iTunes if you like us and if you don't like us please e-mail John and because [TS]

  you looked at how many reviews you haven't you got the press was there so [TS]

  few of them because there are many I usually forget to look at all I'm so [TS]

  I'll end up looking like once every two months or so glad my to interview but [TS]

  usually there there there aren't that many usually [TS]

  reviewers you understand the market as he never looks but I like all the time [TS]

  so I'm vain enough that I look regularly [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  going kaci [TS]

  he was a remarkable [TS]

  my fair if you is that one from the guy who's like Marco isn't that bad on this [TS]

  particular podcast [TS]