0:00:00yeah hammering be one that was it
0:00:02they're doing the like grinding like I
0:00:04don't like a saw
0:00:05it's like sanding or something and it's
0:00:07funny because i was so actually this
0:00:10podcast is going to have a different
0:00:11character than usual because as his
0:00:14listeners outdated vast usually when we
0:00:16record it's it's I would say morning but
0:00:19it's more like noon ish your time and
0:00:21it's like middle of the night my time
0:00:23and I am usually drinking scotch right
0:00:25now but now it is it is morning my time
0:00:29in an evening your time which means i'm
0:00:31drinking coffee and sparkling water so
0:00:33my character may be different but yes we
0:00:35also have to put up with environmental
0:00:37noise
0:00:37they've been doing it for a while now
0:00:39and I i think i have gotten used to it
0:00:42so I don't even didn't even occur to me
0:00:44until I said don't like oh crap ever had
0:00:46this stupid construction going on so
0:00:47many out that's a long-winded
0:00:49introduction to if there is weird
0:00:50grinding noises uh I I apologize because
0:00:53it's not me it's the construction I to
0:00:57drinking coffee in sparkling water
0:00:59no you're gonna be up all night and
0:01:02probably what I speaking of serenity
0:01:09called why'd I have some follow-up here
0:01:11forgot this last week I should've done
0:01:13last week
0:01:15serenity and I two episodes ago we're
0:01:16talking about my inability to I all I
0:01:19wanted to do it because i have a
0:01:20brand-new 256 gigabyte iphone and one of
0:01:24the things i wanted to do is just put
0:01:26all of my music on it because my music
0:01:28library is let's see if i can find it
0:01:32here less than 250 621 gigabyte i have
0:01:364,000 songs 21 gigabyte so you know it's
0:01:40not that big but you know big butt but
0:01:44not not that big easily fits on 256
0:01:48gigabyte iphone and that way just put it
0:01:51all over there and then I never have to
0:01:53worry i get on an airplane
0:01:54I can be out in the sticks I can I could
0:01:57lose my sim card and I've got all my
0:01:59music and there's that could for the
0:02:03life of me couldn't figure out how to do
0:02:04it because i'm also using iCloud music
0:02:09library like if I will didn't use iCloud
0:02:11music library I
0:02:12could do it the old-fashioned way where
0:02:13I just plug it into my mac by the
0:02:17lightning cable and then you'd in itunes
0:02:20go over to music and say sync everything
0:02:22and then hit a button and you know wait
0:02:25for it to be done and then boom there's
0:02:27all my music you can't do that with
0:02:28likely if you have icloud me music
0:02:30library on when you go to music on your
0:02:32Mac when it's connected it just says
0:02:34you're using iCloud music library do it
0:02:37all that way and serenity who knows a
0:02:40lot more about this stuff than I do
0:02:42because she actually like we're gonna
0:02:45write all these like detailed how to she
0:02:47was stumped too anyway long story short
0:02:49the best way to do this and I've just
0:02:52I've so far I've got a bunch of people
0:02:55on Twitter Email whole bunch of people
0:02:57have given me the solution i'll put a
0:02:59link to it in the show notes it's but
0:03:02long story short the way you can do this
0:03:04the only workaround the best worker
0:03:06anybody can think of is you create a
0:03:08smart playlists that matches all music
0:03:12let's see what my criteria are groups
0:03:17started playing music here if I edit
0:03:22smart i tried to double-click a smart
0:03:24playlists to show the credentials here
0:03:26if media kind are no match match music
0:03:32for all of the following and I put size
0:03:35is less than 300 megabytes so any audio
0:03:38file any music file that's less than 300
0:03:41megabytes and it'll be matched by the
0:03:43playlist and I said 300 megabytes I
0:03:46don't even know why it's arbitrary
0:03:47arbitrary number but i have a couple of
0:03:51really big audio files that i do want to
0:03:53sink to the iphone like I have the
0:03:55area's been the criterion collection
0:03:58Tommy's . James Bond directors
0:04:04commentary
0:04:05no I have not Merlin man turned turned
0:04:09me on to these long time ago so when the
0:04:11long story short when the first laser
0:04:15discs of the criterion collection bond
0:04:19movies came out like the the
0:04:23the Connery arrow ones so you got like
0:04:26you know Goldfinger and dr. no and from
0:04:29russia with love the the commentaries
0:04:32weren't approved by eon productions and
0:04:35that's there's some really interesting
0:04:36stuff on them like the editor I forget
0:04:41his name but the guy who edited
0:04:42Goldfinger more or less through the
0:04:47director under the bus about some
0:04:49totally mismatched shots and camera
0:04:52angles that made it a disaster to put
0:04:54together and once you hear him saying
0:04:56you can see a hunt
0:04:57Peter Hunt exactly who went on to direct
0:04:59on her majesty's secret service which I
0:05:03thought was a terrible movie but some
0:05:04people love the fact that i was just
0:05:07thinking that but that's neither here
0:05:09nor there but but Peter Hunt really
0:05:11throws that was the I forget who
0:05:13directed that was it a guy hamilton who
0:05:15directed the Goldfinger i'm looking it
0:05:19up or maybe that was the first 1i
0:05:22royalty is didn't guy allen alright so
0:05:24you could always adopt him he throws him
0:05:26under the bus about some mismatch
0:05:27footage and it's that opening scene
0:05:29where where bond is at the fountainbleau
0:05:33down in Miami and Felix Leiter shows up
0:05:37and everything get started but shot the
0:05:39shot some of it outdoors at like a real
0:05:41outdoor resort and some of it on a
0:05:42soundstage and it was just a mismatch
0:05:45anyway once Eon Productions got you know
0:05:48you know they were like wow this is this
0:05:50is really some fascinating
0:05:51behind-the-scenes stuff when they listen
0:05:52to it they they made the criterion
0:05:54people pull it from like future editions
0:05:56so anyway I've got copies of these
0:05:58things as mp3 files they're almost
0:06:01almost 300 megabytes and so that's why i
0:06:04picked up but anyway long story short
0:06:05make a playlist smart playlists that
0:06:07will match all music then you go over to
0:06:09your phone and you can go to the
0:06:11playlist and then you can hit the cloud
0:06:13button for that playlist which was which
0:06:15means download all the songs on this
0:06:17playlist but since the playlist matches
0:06:19all of your songs
0:06:20it will download all of your songs but
0:06:23Apple seemingly goes way out of its way
0:06:25to deliberately make that something that
0:06:28you can't do like is when you go to the
0:06:31without going to playlist if you just go
0:06:32to all music there is no cloud button
0:06:34yeah well I guess the question is
0:06:37they deliberately go out of their way to
0:06:39make it difficult or is it just general
0:06:42the the general the moai's that is the
0:06:45case with itunes apple music I think in
0:06:47this case it's deliberate
0:06:48I think they want you to support
0:06:50admission or sin of omission yes I think
0:06:52it's sort of like you're supposed but
0:06:53it's very frustrating i think for people
0:06:54like I I don't know every single you
0:06:57every year when my wife gets a new
0:06:58iphone there's a time where I I catch an
0:07:01earful because she goes to the gym and
0:07:04her iphone doesn't have any music on it
0:07:05even though share last one did and then
0:07:08she did a full backup and restore and
0:07:10you know do everything you can to say
0:07:11make my new iphone just like my last one
0:07:13and then there isn't every year none of
0:07:16our music and she's you know like at the
0:07:19gym that she goes to there's no signal
0:07:20you know you can't it's not like you can
0:07:22download the stuff every year and I just
0:07:25don't have that I don't think it's that
0:07:27much to ask
0:07:28yeah the the whole it's interesting I
0:07:31haven't really thought about this a ton
0:07:34but you know I use I streaming services
0:07:37the various ones and it's funny because
0:07:39I actually have its really frustrating I
0:07:41i actually have a subscription to both
0:07:43Spotify and Apple music and the reason
0:07:46is that when i mentor thing we're
0:07:49harvesting a little bit when i'm bored
0:07:50him in the car
0:07:51well drive with the kids like I was like
0:07:53to request songs and so using Siri is is
0:07:56obviously preferable when you're driving
0:07:58and so it's worth it for that but then
0:08:01like my stereo has like Spotify connect
0:08:03which is which is really great like i
0:08:06can place of my phone or whatever
0:08:07interest in just playing on the stereo
0:08:08it's not like it's kind of color
0:08:10chromecast works where you control it
0:08:12but it's not like streaming like airplay
0:08:14which is it just it's a much better
0:08:16model works much better at least at
0:08:17least for me and now like the amazon has
0:08:21come out their service that will plan
0:08:23the echo we have we have an echo setup
0:08:24arm and was like 'well it boy that be
0:08:28convenient it doesn't Spotify as well so
0:08:30it works but yet this this whole like
0:08:34yes there's the allure of having all the
0:08:37music and having access to it but and
0:08:40there's like the upfront cost is much
0:08:42lower but the cost at the back end like
0:08:44actually playing your music there's all
0:08:46these sort of hidden costs that are
0:08:48there and it you don't
0:08:50I'm i'm ok i'm paying it for it now like
0:08:54quite literally but the it's really
0:08:57really it's funny the music industry is
0:08:58all about like yes they were of course
0:09:00they're motivated to have their music
0:09:01everywhere but they're reinforcing these
0:09:05silos with with a sort of new model I
0:09:07mean like if you have if you're not only
0:09:10all apple if you're not only all
0:09:11whatever service you're kind of stuck in
0:09:14the middle it is very frustrating
0:09:16yeah and i don't know i don't know how
0:09:18much of it is related to the fact that
0:09:20if you buy say a 32 gigabyte iphone you
0:09:23don't want your 20 gigabyte library sink
0:09:25over and yes they have the optimized
0:09:27storage feature for that for music and
0:09:30have it for the photos too but it
0:09:32certainly would be very easy for
0:09:34somebody with a 32-gigabyte device to to
0:09:37you know run up against the limit and so
0:09:40maybe that's why I don't know but it's
0:09:42yeah that's a good point they probably
0:09:43sell more of the of the the world across
0:09:46phone then if you look at the average
0:09:47selling prices that's it is waiting in
0:09:49that direction
0:09:50yeah and you know I i admit that i guess
0:09:54the idea of I want all of my entire
0:09:55music on my device all the time is sort
0:09:58of an old-fashioned I'm still thinking
0:09:59like it's the ipod hero but I i actually
0:10:02find it useful
0:10:03o Allah or at least every time I try
0:10:06every time I fly if I want to get it
0:10:09though it is i should do that now
0:10:12because I I mom might my eye I realized
0:10:16my big storage issue with phones and so
0:10:18I got this the first time you've gotten
0:10:19the absolute largest one I i think is 64
0:10:22previously and and it i bumped up
0:10:25against the limits or or this over the
0:10:27last year but my big culprit is his
0:10:29podcast i think my the overcast app was
0:10:32occupying like 16 gigabytes or something
0:10:34like that something ridiculous because
0:10:36all I call QA was that I want to listen
0:10:38to our recommendations and i'll just be
0:10:40sitting in there and who knows if Oliver
0:10:43listen to them but yeah it you can just
0:10:45that that's for me that's that's the big
0:10:47culprit where I keep my stuff that but I
0:10:51don't know it's we're talking before I
0:10:54did there's there's still like these
0:10:57these rough edges of the having
0:11:00everything in the cloud is convenient
0:11:02but but yeah there . is it
0:11:04it's definitely one for me I travel a
0:11:05lot and it's there's nothing more
0:11:07frustrating than being in a a place
0:11:10where you just you just can't get in
0:11:12you're stuck
0:11:14I've actually actually speaking of like
0:11:15old-school itunes and ipod I got a so
0:11:19this company called underwater audio
0:11:20waterproofs uh ipod shuffles and they
0:11:24said waterproof headphones so that you
0:11:26can listen well while swimming which is
0:11:30over it's up it's amazing like it did I
0:11:32mean I've you know exercises are already
0:11:35miserable enough but to be actually
0:11:36listen to podcasts whatever we're doing
0:11:38it is is great the problem is and it
0:11:41took me awhile to figure this out is is
0:11:43I what about your podcast on to the
0:11:45shuffle which is already a pain to have
0:11:47to go i used itunes and it's not synced
0:11:49with overcast sort of stuff but I get
0:11:51there into the pool and and i can't i'm
0:11:53stuck on the first podcast and I can't
0:11:56go to the next one you get the next
0:11:57button on the ipod shuffle what would
0:11:58you expect to happen you think would go
0:11:59to the to the next track it doesn't it
0:12:02turns out that with the last ipod
0:12:06shuffle you have to use voiceover it
0:12:09turns out voiceover doesn't work very
0:12:10well when you're in the pool so in
0:12:12there's no Mike idiot you can there's a
0:12:15way around if I called down the
0:12:16voice-over button and then the next but
0:12:18in the next buttons work it
0:12:20super-complicated makes no sense at all
0:12:22but yeah anyways it's been it's been
0:12:24really eye-opening but beyond that just
0:12:26like having to use itunes again and
0:12:27actually sink stuff like manually manage
0:12:30things like you really appreciate this
0:12:32idea that i can subscribe to podcasts
0:12:34regular music and it's just there and
0:12:35you don't have to think about it to
0:12:37actually have like pre planned on going
0:12:39to listen to its it's like man we we
0:12:41live like savages for a long time huh a
0:12:46good segue to my next bit of follow-up
0:12:51now this is from last week's show I
0:12:53always say last week even though it's
0:12:54sort of like on a 10-day schedule but
0:12:56the previous episode when that Ben not
0:12:58bend your been at Matthew pants arena
0:13:02was on and we were talking about the
0:13:04airpot and about how the biggest minus
0:13:10the only significant the only serious
0:13:12minus about them to me is that they
0:13:14don't have the little buttons for play
0:13:17pause
0:13:17and up down for volume and because it's
0:13:21not so much the play/pause because they
0:13:22the the whole idea where you just take
0:13:24the one out and it pauses and you put it
0:13:26back in and it plays works really really
0:13:29well in almost every situation in fact
0:13:31in some situations it works even better
0:13:33than the button because for me a lot of
0:13:37the times it's like if I've got them on
0:13:39because i'm listening to something and
0:13:40i'm in a store like grocery shopping and
0:13:43then I get to the register i always like
0:13:46to take my headphones out or at least
0:13:47take one out so that I don't look like
0:13:49I'm listening to something and so to
0:13:51integrate the play/pause and the taking
0:13:54out of a of a of it you know one of the
0:13:57airport's it works great but what you
0:14:00what I miss is like the next track
0:14:02previous track like the shortcuts like
0:14:04by double-clicking they used to be able
0:14:05to do and I said that you can't use Siri
0:14:10to change the volume so when you double
0:14:11tap one of the air pods and say like
0:14:14turn the volume up or turn the volume
0:14:17down doesn't work you have to change the
0:14:19volume either from your Apple watch if
0:14:21you have one or by taking your getting
0:14:23to your phone and using the volume
0:14:25buttons on the phone turns out I was
0:14:26wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
0:14:29you can definitely change the volume by
0:14:31Cirie you can do next track previous
0:14:33track I I did it the one time I tried it
0:14:36i did try it and and I said turn the
0:14:39volume up and I was outside that which
0:14:42might have been the problem and serious
0:14:44said I'm sorry I can't do that John and
0:14:47I took that as meaning that she
0:14:48completely understood what i asked but
0:14:51was telling me that's I I can't do this
0:14:53and this is you know we might get back
0:14:55to this later about Syria it my fault it
0:14:58really is my laziness that but I
0:15:01interpreted that you know what I mean
0:15:02like it wasn't like she said sorry I
0:15:05didn't understand you
0:15:07she said I'm sorry I can't do that John
0:15:08and so I took it as meaning volume
0:15:11control is something that was outside
0:15:12the control of Syria turns out I was
0:15:14completely wrong a couple people have
0:15:18their pods correcting me on that now
0:15:19obviously this is not many people have
0:15:21their pods at the time but then I tried
0:15:24it again and it does work you could say
0:15:26volume up volume down
0:15:27turn the volume up turn the volume down
0:15:29next track go back a track previous
0:15:32track
0:15:33I don't have a full list of it but you
0:15:35know there's synonyms that work like go
0:15:37back a track in previous track are the
0:15:39same thing those small world cup can you
0:15:42can you do like this get 15 seconds
0:15:45earth sort of thing I mean they like the
0:15:47the headphones if you would like I can i
0:15:50use overcast if you so Marc was it up if
0:15:53you double-click like it will skip 30
0:15:55seconds you can set the the whatever
0:15:57whatever length you want I I don't know
0:15:59I don't know what happens in overcast I
0:16:01suspect if I say next ride and try it I
0:16:03suspect if I said next track and
0:16:04overcast it would just go to the next
0:16:06podcast I don't think yeah this is
0:16:08interesting
0:16:09I don't think you couldn't do you know i
0:16:10mean i think i think with the clicker
0:16:12Marco could have could look into it in a
0:16:14way that I don't think Cirie would
0:16:16enable but I well now we just have to
0:16:19follow up all over the next one cast
0:16:21aside next week a couple of people then
0:16:26wrote and I don't think I don't think
0:16:27Matthew and I talked about it but a
0:16:28couple people said if you have like one
0:16:30of the pains in the butt if you do have
0:16:32the watch it's a little bit easier if
0:16:34you need if you don't want to use it
0:16:35serie to do it but you still have to
0:16:38bring up like if you're in a workout
0:16:39which is often the situation I'm in
0:16:41where I do want to adjust the volume
0:16:42like I'm out running and like it gets
0:16:46noisy like if I'm running through a
0:16:48noisier traffic neighborhood i want to
0:16:49turn the volume up because i can't hear
0:16:51any more on the watch you still have to
0:16:55poke around a little bit to get to a
0:16:57screen where you can adjust the volume
0:17:01like you that you you know the easiest
0:17:02way in my opinion is to just get to the
0:17:04now playing glance which I keep is the
0:17:08first glance so it's usually not you
0:17:10know it's like one tap tap on the
0:17:11sidebar then tap on now playing and then
0:17:14once you're on now playing you can
0:17:15actually change the volume by spinning
0:17:17the crown which is really really nice
0:17:19when your fingers are sweaty or
0:17:21something like that you have to poke at
0:17:22the little buttons on screen but it
0:17:24would be kind of nice if you could
0:17:25somehow set a preference so that if
0:17:27there's music playing right now three or
0:17:29either your phone or the watch that you
0:17:32could use the crown from like the watch
0:17:35face to change the volume because right
0:17:37now the crown on the watch face does
0:17:38nothing could be kind of nice if we
0:17:40could change the volume
0:17:41so when you when you spend the crown on
0:17:43the watch face it does it doesn't longer
0:17:45zoom into like that app you know
0:17:48ok and watch os3 it does nothing and it
0:17:51doesn't do they actually if you're on
0:17:53the app you it does Jim you back towards
0:17:56the watch face right but one you're on
0:17:59the watch face what he used to do in
0:18:01watch us to is it gave you the time time
0:18:03travel or whatever they called it may be
0:18:07well used to be that you would assume in
0:18:08yeah i do it was funny because I i I've
0:18:10observed people who are technical users
0:18:13and that was for sure one of the things
0:18:15that always gotten frustrated like I was
0:18:17actually my god . who was used to use
0:18:20wearing an Apple watch is asking about
0:18:21it you know how you liked it and he
0:18:23generally liked it but that was he like
0:18:25that the fact that he's like it keeps
0:18:28coming in and I don't know why like that
0:18:30was the one thing that was driving a map
0:18:31the wall so I didn't realize that they
0:18:33have changed i guess im so accustomed to
0:18:35not even touching it that that I didn't
0:18:37notice but I think in general I would I
0:18:39would be surprised if you know I clearly
0:18:42i think we were were definitely an
0:18:45agreement this like Apple there were
0:18:48some unfortunate decisions that were
0:18:49made about how to watch what should be
0:18:51used in version one I think they kind of
0:18:53they went too far down the road of
0:18:55prescribing how people would use it
0:18:56instead of waiting to understand how
0:18:58people wanted you know what actually use
0:18:59it and one of the casualties of that I
0:19:02think was the functionality of the
0:19:03buttons in general and so the acid
0:19:05awakened in version one pressing that
0:19:07button was like the whole contacts like
0:19:10personal communication crap whatever
0:19:11which is now completely gone but in
0:19:14general I think there's still that sort
0:19:16of it's not fully realize the potential
0:19:18those buttons like that but the button
0:19:21should be much more usable and I bet
0:19:23over time become even more usable in
0:19:25apps and same thing with the digital
0:19:26crown like what you're talking about
0:19:28makes perfect sense of music is playing
0:19:29why shouldn't that be volume and
0:19:31especially if they're gonna pursue this
0:19:34focus of being health and fitness wear a
0:19:36touchscreen that that's like the worst
0:19:38possible scenario for a touchscreen and
0:19:41it's an example of how the there they're
0:19:44kind of the health and fitness focus is
0:19:47a is was clearly not
0:19:51what they're thinking about from day one
0:19:53it was a part of it but it wasn't like
0:19:54the thing that is for I think there's
0:19:56things they would have done differently
0:19:57and and one of those things would have
0:19:59gone differently is how those buttons
0:20:01are used and so I would imagine in like
0:20:03watches for for example they're gonna
0:20:05move even more to those buttons being
0:20:07actual used in the crown being actually
0:20:09usable controls right now if you're in a
0:20:13workout you and you have you know the
0:20:16workout thing is on your you know on
0:20:20your better you see when you're you know
0:20:22because you're doing a walk or run or
0:20:23something when you spin the crown it
0:20:25just changes the focus from the
0:20:27different things on the screen like if
0:20:28I'm trying and I'm doing a fake run
0:20:30right now as I spin it down it goes from
0:20:33the elapsed time to the active calories
0:20:35to the Part B you know and just focus
0:20:37changes focus i would i would find it
0:20:40much more useful to have that change the
0:20:41volume honestly but that's just me
0:20:45yeah well I think idea and I want to
0:20:47again this is one of those things where
0:20:48they change so much and always three
0:20:50they're really just fundamentally
0:20:51changed how the operating system worked
0:20:54and you're not going to get everything
0:20:55in kind of one goal is just fine like I
0:20:57think that's the that's the mistake i
0:20:59think they made in version one like that
0:21:00it was over it was over prescribed the
0:21:03way you want to use it without really i
0:21:05think having an understanding how people
0:21:07would use this time you go back
0:21:08did this is what made the the the first
0:21:12phone in particular so you know so smart
0:21:15is whether there's this classic story in
0:21:18InDesign talk like i'm sure you've heard
0:21:20a million times but out where there's
0:21:23some school or whatever where they they
0:21:25built up this whole new area of the
0:21:26campus or something like that and
0:21:28instead of putting in sidewalks then put
0:21:30it like this really nice grass and then
0:21:32they observed where the grass got worn
0:21:34down and then they put sidewalks there
0:21:36and like that'sthat's just stay there
0:21:39and you can see there's other examples
0:21:41where there's like a path and right next
0:21:43to it there's like worn-down grass
0:21:44because people are taking like little
0:21:45shortcuts and stuff like that and with
0:21:48the phone in particular Apple really
0:21:50took sort of the grass approach where
0:21:53they got the basics there they got a
0:21:55browser they got a phone they got ipod
0:21:57and then the last breast of it was
0:21:58really you know that . where folks like
0:22:02you know Craig Hockenberry whatever
0:22:03we're figuring out the API and we're
0:22:05building you know side-loaded
0:22:07applications i think was really valuable
0:22:09to to help Apple really understand what
0:22:13needed to be built it and how they
0:22:15should go about you know opening up the
0:22:17API and what things might be possible
0:22:19and that's the exact opposite process
0:22:22they did with the watch like the watch
0:22:23that it was it was they did too much
0:22:26there wasn't enough of a sort of open
0:22:28canvas to figure out what works and what
0:22:31doesn't and now they're having to kind
0:22:33of unwind what they did before and
0:22:35thatthat's just going to take time I
0:22:37don't know if that that story is
0:22:38apocryphal or not the story about the
0:22:40pads on campus but I remember it's great
0:22:43story though it's a great story and it's
0:22:45there's a truth to it because i remember
0:22:46a truck soul when i was there in the
0:22:48late nineties there were definite dirt
0:22:51paths through grass you know that word
0:22:54they're obviously there forever that
0:22:57clearly they should have you remember
0:22:58when i first heard that story I thought
0:23:00specifically about certain areas if
0:23:05anybody went two directions then I don't
0:23:07know if they even called the campus at
0:23:09drexel has changed so much since i went
0:23:10there but we used to be you know we
0:23:12called it the quad the section off a
0:23:15market street there definitely was a
0:23:20mean it couldn't have been more exactly
0:23:22like that story like here's a plate you
0:23:24know you're supposed to walk all the way
0:23:26over there and go around this building
0:23:27and everybody just cut through right
0:23:29here
0:23:30I can't think of two examples in Apple's
0:23:32history where the apples done that and
0:23:34but they're both like classic met you
0:23:36remember the classic mac OS you didn't
0:23:37use the mac back then did you
0:23:39I I do remember it i denied but
0:23:41goodnight and two things I can think of
0:23:43would be command tab where that was that
0:23:46was a windows invention or you'd hit
0:23:49command tab and originally in command
0:23:52tab in Windows you would just cycle
0:23:54through apps in most recently used order
0:23:57and it was you know obviously windows
0:24:01users took to it but then we're we're
0:24:03really became a good interface was when
0:24:06they put up the heads-up display that
0:24:08showed you where you know all of your
0:24:11apps in most recent order so you could
0:24:14see
0:24:14oh I need to go for to get 2x
0:24:17well you know right actually see it used
0:24:19to not have that heads-up display it
0:24:21would just switch through the apps you
0:24:23know and you'd find out what chapter
0:24:24you're getting to each time you hit tab
0:24:26and it became a thing where they were i
0:24:30don't know three or four competing
0:24:31third-party utilities for mac OS that
0:24:35did the exact same thing and everybody
0:24:37had one of them installed
0:24:38I mean it was the I i don't think i dont
0:24:40it was one of those things where I don't
0:24:41know anybody who didn't and eventually
0:24:43Apple acquiesced I don't know which
0:24:45version of mac OS it was but they added
0:24:50it as a as a system-level thing and I
0:24:52think they've delayed on it because I
0:24:54think there was a sort of reluctance to
0:24:56add anything that came to windows first
0:24:58to the mac it you have probably and any
0:25:02other like the other one I could think
0:25:03of was the old Apple menu used to just
0:25:07be a rich in the original mac OS the
0:25:09Apple menu had i think it's i think it
0:25:14has still had like about they had the
0:25:17about for like whatever happier in like
0:25:19about this app would be like the first
0:25:20item in the Apple menu and then the rest
0:25:25of it was just a list of your desk
0:25:27accessories which were like the little
0:25:30in this is for super old is like going
0:25:32back to the eighties back west which
0:25:33were the little love in das terms what
0:25:36they used to call them tossed a little
0:25:37in a way to get multitasking like little
0:25:43in-app with a resident in Resident I
0:25:45have no I I got nothing for you haha
0:25:47well I think of it but anyway desk
0:25:50accessories were little things that ran
0:25:52within the memory of dick app itself so
0:25:55that the calculator and the there was a
0:25:58thing called the scrapbook which is sort
0:26:00of like a clipboard history so you can
0:26:02keep like little snippets attacks and
0:26:04third-party utilities came up that made
0:26:06the Apple menu way more useful see that
0:26:08you could put like an alias to your hard
0:26:10drive in there so you can just go to the
0:26:11apple menu go down to your hard drive
0:26:13and get a hierarchical list of every
0:26:15folder you know so you wouldn't have to
0:26:17go to the finder and go to your hard
0:26:19drive and double-click on a folder and
0:26:20double-click on a folder and
0:26:22double-click you just go to your Apple
0:26:23menu go to your hard drive
0:26:25go to applications go to utilities and
0:26:29then launched that
0:26:30up from that folder that you wanted to
0:26:31or wherever you wanted to go but you
0:26:33instead of leaving a whole history of
0:26:34windows behind of each folder you want
0:26:36to you too it's just a hierarchical go
0:26:38list of menu and then event in everybody
0:26:41and that was another one of those things
0:26:42where everybody had one of these
0:26:43utilities and the one that I used was
0:26:46called now menus . it's really going
0:26:48back but eventually Apple added that to
0:26:50the system as well it was a gay if
0:26:52everybody's got this you should get it
0:26:53ought to be part of the system yet the
0:26:56only it's funny the only the two add-ons
0:26:59that I still depend on now is one is is
0:27:03from windows and it because when i use
0:27:05Windows I'd like there's shortcuts to
0:27:08manage to move your windows around so
0:27:10you can like snap your windows just one
0:27:11side of the one side of the desktop or
0:27:13to another or things like in do all
0:27:14kinds of things so once i have one of
0:27:17those on the mac and i use one called
0:27:19better snap tool but it that's amazing
0:27:21but that's super nice about Apple will
0:27:23ever had that but the other thing and
0:27:26it's funny because this is it for this
0:27:29is arguably the single thing that keeps
0:27:31me using a backhand serve like a of a
0:27:34Chromebook or or and I pottery thing is
0:27:38a clipboard manager it like it's
0:27:40unbelievable how often I use something
0:27:43like that and how much more powerful
0:27:45that makes that makes using using a
0:27:48computer but again I guess they buried
0:27:50to those are pretty nice that they
0:27:51already used all the taking up all the
0:27:53all the wall hanging fruit and which
0:27:55clipboard manager duties is one called
0:27:58copy and paste use lon
0:28:01yeah use launch bar but watch for had
0:28:02this weird bug where it would just it
0:28:05won't work after a while and they
0:28:07eventually fixed it after it was around
0:28:08for years and people complain about the
0:28:10kept saying was apple's fault like every
0:28:12other over the government have a problem
0:28:13but yes I used uh I don't remember why I
0:28:16got it I i mean i got it for when I
0:28:20would need a replacement most so there's
0:28:22a good review somewhere but I've see no
0:28:24reason to switch works well for me you
0:28:26get it keeps a bunch in there you can do
0:28:27stuff like if you if you've copied stuff
0:28:30you can paste as plain text super easily
0:28:32you can make everything all capitals or
0:28:33take away all the capitals like it it
0:28:35was like text transformation on stuff as
0:28:37well if you need so yeah but there's a
0:28:39bunch of them out there i think they're
0:28:40all pretty good
0:28:41the ones i've used our launch bars
0:28:44built-in one which I kind of don't like
0:28:46the display of but it is actually what
0:28:49i'm using right now
0:28:52keyboard maestro your keyboard maestro
0:28:55yeah I've heard of it I I i can if i
0:28:57tried it by boy i strode does so much
0:28:59stuff keyboard maestro is a great
0:29:01utility it's you could you make record
0:29:03macros that do all sorts of things
0:29:05really just sort of automated you know
0:29:07multi-step you can automate the whole
0:29:09GUI really but it also is sort of you
0:29:13can if you want to act as like
0:29:14TextExpander where you type you know
0:29:17TLA and it expands to three letter
0:29:19acronym or somethin like that and it has
0:29:21a clipboard history keyboard maestro his
0:29:24clipboard history is searchable which is
0:29:26actually kinda neat and keyboard my
0:29:28school's out
0:29:28that's the i would be awesome keyboard
0:29:30maestro has a heuristic that looks for
0:29:33things that look like a password and I
0:29:36and bullets them out so and like I think
0:29:39only keep some as forget what else it
0:29:42does it for that if it's just a visual
0:29:43thing or if it if it only lets you copy
0:29:47you know actually paste it when it's the
0:29:48topmost thing but whatever it does it's
0:29:51actually never never want someone who
0:29:53did the wrong thing for me like the
0:29:55heuristic is so smart about it that it
0:29:58however it is that it works it's so
0:30:00smart about about identifying things
0:30:03that look like wow that looks like a
0:30:04week you know like at a password that
0:30:08that somebody would make up for that
0:30:09like a password utility would make up
0:30:11that doesn't get exposed and then one
0:30:13that's most recent which i've used by
0:30:15using beta but I it hasn't stuck with me
0:30:18is pay spot from the tweet but guys
0:30:20yeah I I the the searchable one it would
0:30:24be super valuable I think good because
0:30:26when i do the daily updates particular
0:30:28where those usually have more quotes and
0:30:31links then then my weekly articles do
0:30:33like I will accumulate the ton of weeks
0:30:37in the process of writing just one of
0:30:38them and yes sometimes particularly if I
0:30:41want to look something up like I write
0:30:42about something that i forgot excited of
0:30:44having like I will end up like well over
0:30:47a hundred times every single day after
0:30:48I'm finished writing these it's which is
0:30:50ridiculous i have food fight it's easier
0:30:52to just this is how you get a bunch of
0:30:54tabs
0:30:55instead of going through my tabs and
0:30:56find the article i'm looking for his
0:30:58open a new window and go to my clipboard
0:31:00manager and I know the links in there we
0:31:02can I i just used it but if I can search
0:31:04that would make it even better at yeah
0:31:06it's I it's funny the weird things that
0:31:09you end up doing that are just make no
0:31:11sense at all but you fall into these
0:31:12patterns so alright i will put links to
0:31:14all of those absent in the shop that's
0:31:17where AI and for the record I i think
0:31:21this is why I don't know six or seven
0:31:23time on here and I got a message i woke
0:31:26up to a message from you including notes
0:31:28notes for the podcast i was very
0:31:30impressed i think that that is a first
0:31:31so for the record uh the talk show is
0:31:35getting ever more organized
0:31:37uh chuckles deal we're doing it's the
0:31:39same thing we talked about it on with
0:31:41the pantry and last we're using the
0:31:44iCloud shared notes which is actually
0:31:46pretty pretty useful it is except that
0:31:50the only way I ever forever and maybe
0:31:53except i'm not i'm not in Syria I don't
0:31:55update my mac for usually a couple
0:31:56months after after the update arm but
0:31:59the idea doesn't sync to my icloud on
0:32:01the mac right Pete but that might be
0:32:04just going on the current version but it
0:32:06reminds me of like the one of the the
0:32:08irritations I have with like Apple uh
0:32:11like when they do web app so i have it
0:32:14open in the browser now because that
0:32:15that obviously sinks but i think that
0:32:17the reason why would Apple web apps like
0:32:21try to mimic like desktop apps but that
0:32:25makes them frustrating to use because
0:32:27you know doing something browser isn't
0:32:29as efficient or faster as good of a new
0:32:32user experiences using a native app
0:32:34without question
0:32:35whereas there are some web apps that I
0:32:37use like I do all my writing a web app
0:32:3911 called draft draft in common is
0:32:42awesome but it's it's it's a web-like it
0:32:46embraces it being a web app and you
0:32:49gettin that's the case for all sorts of
0:32:51products like if you embrace the medium
0:32:53that you're on the user experience can
0:32:55be really great but if you're trying to
0:32:57like mimic one that's from somewhere
0:32:59else it's it's not not nearly as good
0:33:01anyhow that that is just sort of a
0:33:03random sort of observations and I would
0:33:05that is the first time i've used the
0:33:07these
0:33:08thinking or sharing no thing for notes
0:33:11so it's weird i've been doing it for a
0:33:13couple episodes now but I've been
0:33:14running I'm like you I'm very reluctant
0:33:17then and it's always seems like I've got
0:33:19something open i don't want to restart
0:33:20even just restart the machine i still
0:33:22haven't updated my imac to Sierra so and
0:33:25that's where I record from so i have it
0:33:27on my phone and the phone has the new
0:33:30fancy new share this note with somebody
0:33:32and get the changes sync feature but my
0:33:35max version doesn't so and then you had
0:33:37the idea to to use the iCloud web app
0:33:40which never even occurred to me because
0:33:42i never used
0:33:43I never use the iCloud web apps for
0:33:44anything other than find my iphone
0:33:46alright but it's weird too because it it
0:33:50does try to mimic a desktop app but but
0:33:53it's it's not it doesn't look anything
0:33:58like the matter the mac version and it
0:34:00doesn't look like the ipad version
0:34:02either it's like this it it it does look
0:34:06like a desktop app but it doesn't look
0:34:08like a Mac one and it doesn't look like
0:34:09an iPad app yeah who knows what's going
0:34:13on and there's all that it's I don't
0:34:14understand anybody uses web apps and
0:34:16it's because it's like i tried to use
0:34:18the shortcut shift command H to make a
0:34:22text header which works in you know it's
0:34:25a keyboard shortcut i know from the
0:34:26desktop version of note but of course
0:34:28safari ate that keystroke and tried to
0:34:31take me home
0:34:32yeah but it was great it was smart
0:34:35université do you want to do you sure
0:34:37you want to do that because you've got
0:34:38unsaved changes in this text editing
0:34:40field i would much rather an app that
0:34:43just like written in the old 1999 HTML
0:34:48yea though the ones that I use like the
0:34:51their ones that like that they are
0:34:53they're pure web one there . they're
0:34:56there for the web like just unabashedly
0:34:59and there's something I think like I
0:35:00think is one of the reasons why google
0:35:02docs something especially it's gotten
0:35:03better now but you know was very
0:35:05frustrating visit kinda was trying to
0:35:07mimic a desktop interface
0:35:09I mean obviously doctors some amazing
0:35:11things particularly the collaboration
0:35:12stuff and all that but i think though
0:35:14the apps that i actually like using the
0:35:17web and like-for-like the writing one
0:35:18for example it's just like playing field
0:35:20and you get the benefit
0:35:21the web app where stuff saved instantly
0:35:23and and if anything happens like to your
0:35:26computer are you never lose data ever
0:35:28like it's to me it works very well but
0:35:32the the other thing that I do that I
0:35:34think makes it much more tolerable is
0:35:36you know speaking of mac utilities is
0:35:38fluid where you feel like a single-site
0:35:40browser and then you can make an icon so
0:35:42basically when I open like drivers and /
0:35:45or WordPress or MailChimp like the
0:35:47various you know web apps that I use
0:35:49frequently they all have their own
0:35:51they're like their own apps and you you
0:35:54click you make it in fluid and you click
0:35:56it and it opens up with its own icon in
0:35:58the dock and separate and so it's not
0:36:00buried in my hundreds of tabs like its
0:36:02own distinct entity and to me that
0:36:04that's that's another app I cannot live
0:36:07without like if I actually had to use
0:36:10web apps inside a browser like just I'm
0:36:13so disorganized in general would be
0:36:14would be intolerable but fluid-like
0:36:15makes it makes it feel like a normal app
0:36:19which is just a professional standpoint
0:36:21i have used fluid in the past for once
0:36:25or twice when I had to use a web app
0:36:26because it's sometimes you wanted to be
0:36:28a command tab target but it's it's not
0:36:30like a real at all it's terrible
0:36:32no I mean from a navigational standpoint
0:36:34I know your point where you can find it
0:36:36very easily and i can go to it but again
0:36:38but well I think when you get apps that
0:36:42are mimicking desktop apps in the wind
0:36:45and weather they feel awful but like it
0:36:47again just use like draft as an example
0:36:49like you open it up and you open an
0:36:51article and all it is is it's a blank
0:36:53page and you type and it's basically a
0:36:55text editor and it handles markdown and
0:36:58stuff like that so it i find it
0:37:00there's lots of benefits i find from
0:37:02being a web app including particularly
0:37:04the blanket state like I've never ever
0:37:06watched stuff that I've written ever
0:37:07because even if my computer with a crash
0:37:09or or something like that doesn't get
0:37:12corrupted it it's just is it's always
0:37:13there in to me it because it's it's not
0:37:17trying to do too much not try to put all
0:37:19these all these menu bars there and then
0:37:21in make it feel like its word but now
0:37:24it's on the web kinda like Google Docs
0:37:25does not all that sort of thing
0:37:27it's perfectly it's not it's more than
0:37:31tolerable it's it's it's downright
0:37:32enjoyable to use and those are the ones
0:37:34that that
0:37:35I really I really appreciate it i think
0:37:37i've been awhile then I know that for
0:37:40people of our generation losing data on
0:37:43your computer used to be like part of my
0:37:46part of life
0:37:48the outfit is just like you'd felt guess
0:37:50this is my lucky day right like you know
0:37:53your system would freeze up the app
0:37:55would just crash and vanish no apps and
0:37:58the old days did autosave you were stuck
0:38:01with the last time you ever hit command
0:38:03s and everybody had a horror tale I
0:38:05don't think it ever really happened to
0:38:06me in a catastrophic way but everybody
0:38:07knew somebody at least it wasn't like
0:38:09you had to know somebody who knew
0:38:10somebody whose brother you knew somebody
0:38:12who had happened to where they open up
0:38:14in a word or whatever they use hit
0:38:16command and started writing a paper got
0:38:19to the end and that's when you know
0:38:21maybe when they went to hit print the
0:38:22print driver crashed and because they'd
0:38:25never saved the whole thing was gone it
0:38:27was all your nightmares Fear available
0:38:29and there was nothing you could do is
0:38:31brutal
0:38:31there was no like cash of of temporary
0:38:34save files there's no no matter how much
0:38:36of an expert you were computing there
0:38:38was absolutely nothing you could do and
0:38:40we just accepted that all well I guess I
0:38:42should hit hit command and I got weighed
0:38:44ourselves rather than others but that
0:38:48and it was actually that was the main
0:38:50reason that was a common scenario was
0:38:51that that first command ass was sort of
0:38:53a pain in the ass because you have to
0:38:55pick a location and then pick a file
0:38:56name and subsequent command asses are
0:38:59always very easy because is nothing else
0:39:01to do you have already given it a
0:39:02location in a name and the command ask
0:39:04you just you know in the old days she
0:39:06did after wait you have to wait like a
0:39:07second or two for the actual file to
0:39:09write but it was nowhere near as much of
0:39:12a cognitive hurdle of that first command
0:39:15ass would you know you know the right
0:39:17interface i think this is one of those
0:39:19ways that the original mac team got
0:39:21wrong was in in those days if that's how
0:39:23it was going to be where there was no
0:39:24autosave when you hit command and
0:39:27instead of immediately giving you a new
0:39:29untitled window it should have
0:39:30immediately forced you to pick a
0:39:32location in a file name whatever
0:39:36something that before you get that
0:39:38window where you can start typing you
0:39:40should have had to pick a location
0:39:42filename
0:39:44why do that I think so one of the things
0:39:46that's great about iOS and there's
0:39:48another use web apps is the because iOS
0:39:52from the was from the ground up kind of
0:39:54designed that way and apps in general
0:39:56are always saving and are always
0:39:57thinking you know thinking what they
0:40:00have the cloud there's no I distinct
0:40:02sort of save process it's sort of
0:40:04integral 22 how they work so i have a
0:40:06lot of apps where I have a ir s version
0:40:09and then i have the web version on on my
0:40:13mac and i like those because they're
0:40:15always in sync constantly whereas ones
0:40:18that have a mac app and ones that have
0:40:20an iOS app the mac app that the sink is
0:40:22never like perfect every time like for
0:40:24me like it if I don't trust the sink
0:40:27that it's going to be synced up every
0:40:29single time like it almost like to me
0:40:33that's trumped like the user interface
0:40:34like of like using a native app which i
0:40:37do prefer native apps in general but if
0:40:40I don't have full confidence that it's
0:40:42going to be synced every single time i
0:40:43will put up with the with the web app
0:40:46just to have that that knowledge is
0:40:47always there occurs to me having it
0:40:49always available is key and I know that
0:40:51Apple you know tried to sort of rejigger
0:40:55the document model was it back in Lyon
0:40:57to make it more iOS like yeah but the
0:41:00problem was you know I think the I still
0:41:02that still drives me up the wall like it
0:41:05actually I that's one reason I stopped
0:41:06using i work i know they sort of added
0:41:09it back in bits and pieces and some
0:41:11terminal commands you can get to like
0:41:13restoring the same as button and stuff
0:41:14but I now you hold on I'll show me it
0:41:17was ours no I think that you can add a
0:41:19personalized there's a terminal command
0:41:21you can have it on the menu permanently
0:41:22have to press option every single time
0:41:24but the I destroyed so many documents by
0:41:28forgetting to like duplicate and like
0:41:30the autosave is up its well it's like
0:41:33the passing like what
0:41:34once you have the muscle memory and
0:41:36you're used to doing a certain way even
0:41:39if that's not the best way like you're
0:41:41it's it it was for people who are you
0:41:43have been using it for years it's like
0:41:45too late it and but anyhow so now we're
0:41:49not accusing what apps but like that in
0:41:52the right kind in the right context that
0:41:53I like them
0:41:55uh I were 43 minutes and we have talking
0:42:00anyway long story short the airplane at
0:42:02the airport their pods do have serious
0:42:04happens that was the best digression
0:42:06ever i will say this is one of those
0:42:09those serie commands for controlling the
0:42:11audio on the air pods they do work I end
0:42:13and they've worked remarkably well ever
0:42:15since it was pointed out to me that they
0:42:17work i don't know why it failed for me
0:42:18the first time but they're not
0:42:21instantaneous it's the double tap
0:42:24there's a moment before you hear the
0:42:26Serie okay I'm listening
0:42:28and then there's a moment after that
0:42:29before it'll actually catch everything
0:42:31you say so it works but it's nowhere
0:42:34near as instantaneous is just clicking
0:42:36the button on your another the earphone
0:42:39cable to just go volume up volume up or
0:42:41something like that
0:42:42interesting how the the silver the only
0:42:45controls that you have on their pods are
0:42:47trigger Siri or take them out of here
0:42:49and pause right yeah it's just there's
0:42:50no extra like there's nothing else
0:42:52there's no and there's no options for
0:42:54like triple clip you know you DoubleTap
0:42:56for Siri there's no way to say that if I
0:42:58triple tap or quadruple tap or something
0:43:00like that to do something else maybe
0:43:02they'll do that in the future maybe not
0:43:03because it's a little you know finicky
0:43:06overall this is not a dealbreaker be for
0:43:08me by any part I the only headphones i
0:43:10want to use other than the ones I used
0:43:12for podcasting our airports it's you
0:43:15know it is though the only minus i can
0:43:17think of with them now that's
0:43:20interesting i I'm I'm worried i know you
0:43:22said that they fit better than the
0:43:23regular year ones that which don't fit
0:43:25in my ears at a at all so I'm gonna I'm
0:43:28gonna get them i'm very intrigued by
0:43:29them but that that specific point is is
0:43:33a little bit it's weird i can see both
0:43:34both have been situation where I both
0:43:36want to take them out of my ear but then
0:43:38I also have to hit pause so that idea
0:43:39about doing it once is is really
0:43:41compelling for the same situation if you
0:43:43want to talk to somebody on you and you
0:43:44know you want to take take take out your
0:43:46ear but at the same time I'm worried
0:43:49about fit and I'm worried about the data
0:43:52having that control i use that I use the
0:43:54clicker either beats ones and I use that
0:43:56clicker all the time i did too at the
0:43:58beach ones
0:43:59alright let's take a break and thank our
0:44:01first sponsor it is our good friends at
0:44:06backblaze back plays you know you know
0:44:08these guys they offer unlimited native
0:44:10backup for the mac and for a pc i don't
0:44:15know I've never used to pc so you have
0:44:18to take their word for that but on a mac
0:44:20i can guarantee you it is excellent
0:44:23no credit card required no risk you get
0:44:25a 15 day free trial at backpage.com /
0:44:27during fireball I say this every time I
0:44:32wish that they would stop sponsoring the
0:44:34show because they would write to me and
0:44:35say sorry John nobody's signing up
0:44:38anymore because everybody listens to the
0:44:39talk show is signed up for back place i
0:44:41would love it would make me feel better
0:44:42even though I i do like the money that
0:44:45they sponsor the show I would feel
0:44:47better knowing that everybody was
0:44:49listening to this show has some sort of
0:44:52offline out of their office backup use
0:44:56it in addition don't use it you don't
0:44:57have to use it as your only backup you
0:44:59good theory i think backup is the 11 of
0:45:01those things that really should be you
0:45:04know you should have multiple layers of
0:45:05it so use time machine use super duper
0:45:08or something like that to make a clone
0:45:09of your startup disk do those things
0:45:12hard drives external hard drives are
0:45:13relatively cheap you can buy them you
0:45:15know especially if you get the spinning
0:45:16disk once you can get them just for
0:45:18backup and they're so cheap do it but
0:45:21having a backup that's off site is such
0:45:24a I say it every time it makes you sleep
0:45:27better
0:45:28it is such a relief to know that
0:45:30everything and back place has no limits
0:45:32you think
0:45:33well I'd like to sign up but I've got a
0:45:35giant you know hard drive full of all
0:45:38these movies and and photos I don't want
0:45:41to have to decide what I back up and it
0:45:43is unlimited
0:45:44it doesn't matter you pay five bucks per
0:45:47Mac per month five bucks a month for
0:45:50each mac and it doesn't matter how much
0:45:51you have they'll just back it all up the
0:45:53only hitch is that it just takes longer
0:45:55for that initial backup to actually
0:45:57upload everything you've got so the more
0:45:59data you have yes it there's no magic
0:46:02that will let 10 terabytes update in an
0:46:05hour
0:46:06it's not going to happen but however
0:46:07long it takes once is updated it just
0:46:09you know incremental e runs from there
0:46:12it i have never noticed it
0:46:14I mean I've been talking about
0:46:18problems with some other apps that take
0:46:20up space i often have Activity Monitor
0:46:23running and I'm looking at apps that are
0:46:25taking up too much cpu I've never seen
0:46:27back plays pop up in my list of cpu
0:46:29usage and never slows down your machine
0:46:31i have no idea when it runs i don't know
0:46:33i just said it to the default settings
0:46:35and let go
0:46:36I never noticed and it's always there
0:46:38and when I have checked just to see
0:46:39what's in my back place it's always
0:46:41up-to-date it is an amazing service the
0:46:44mac software is written by former Apple
0:46:46engineers it's totally native it's just
0:46:48a simple control panel in the system
0:46:50preferences and there's no gimmick for
0:46:52additional charges there's no trick to
0:46:54this five dollars a month per device to
0:46:56the thing that's the offer and that's it
0:46:58so go to backpage.com / daring fireball
0:47:01then don't know you came from here you
0:47:03get 15 days to try it free do that you
0:47:06won't be charged a nickel before then
0:47:08and then you just start paying after
0:47:10that so my thanks to back place go sign
0:47:12up for them sign up your parents signed
0:47:14up anybody you know I get everybody back
0:47:17tub i am a happy customer
0:47:24it's a great service alright what else
0:47:26we got on the agenda you see on twitter
0:47:28i tweeted a couple like a week or two
0:47:31ago that Amy's watch fell apart I did
0:47:34yes it is funny because you why didn't
0:47:38you describe what happened but my wife
0:47:39has been complaining that her watch is
0:47:41getting really bad at heart rate
0:47:43monitoring up its going to have heart
0:47:45yeah I don't sell it sell that I
0:47:47guarantee it she's probably like three
0:47:48weeks three weeks the head of a me so
0:47:52that's what happened so what happened he
0:47:54has a 13 millimeter stainless steel
0:47:56Apple watch that we have the same it was
0:47:59just very early maybe even ordered like
0:48:01when they first went on sale and you
0:48:04know they were famously backordered for
0:48:06a while so sometime in May of last
0:48:07year's when she got it
0:48:10she's worn it not necessarily every day
0:48:12but she's worn it most days and she
0:48:14loves it for the fitness tracking it is
0:48:16first and foremost a fitness tracker for
0:48:18she was it when she works out she wears
0:48:21it the filler circles everyday and a
0:48:24couple weeks ago my question exactly she
0:48:26just started vaguely again it's she
0:48:28blames me for everything that goes wrong
0:48:30with every Apple
0:48:31it's not even like she asked for help
0:48:32she's blaming me that and she blamed me
0:48:36that she was getting less do credit less
0:48:38credit for things and you know like some
0:48:42things like a workout in the gym maybe
0:48:43you know some days you were feeling it
0:48:47and you know you're more motivated or
0:48:48you have more energy and you you know
0:48:50you you know an hour doing the same
0:48:52exercise maybe you do burn more calories
0:48:54because you're you know you were more
0:48:56into it but she was getting less 4 u'r
0:48:59calories burn counted even for things
0:49:01like walking to school to pick Jonas up
0:49:04if she said like a walk then which you'd
0:49:06think would should be very very close
0:49:08every single day and usually used to be
0:49:10and hers was very low and then she
0:49:12upgraded to watch os3 and it went the
0:49:14other way and she started getting like
0:49:15seemingly extra credit for her calories
0:49:19burned and she she didn't complain as
0:49:20much then but she still thought
0:49:21something was flaky and then the other
0:49:23day about a week ago and then she woke
0:49:26up and she went to take your watch off
0:49:27the charger and then the whole back just
0:49:30stuck to the magnetic charger
0:49:32yea even mention that so after my wife
0:49:35was away literally like two days after
0:49:37you you you talked about that she was
0:49:40complaining of the same thing about the
0:49:41tractor working so he took the charger
0:49:43and I was like did it like a bunch of
0:49:45times attaching and detaching think it
0:49:47would pop off it hasn't popped up yet
0:49:49but the same situation she's wanted
0:49:51pretty much daily since she got at the
0:49:53same time . and as the exact same same
0:49:56model has exactly . so yeah I and I i'm
0:50:00looking forward to getting a look at the
0:50:01larger internets apparently so it seems
0:50:03like a common fair i tweeted a picture
0:50:04of it and and cracked a very snarky joke
0:50:09because I happen to follow a couple of
0:50:12other watch things on Twitter and I
0:50:15forget who was what was the company pet
0:50:17Patek had came out with a new watch and
0:50:21I right tweeted the same day I should i
0:50:24treated a link to this new protect watch
0:50:27and
0:50:29you know which is like a
0:50:30twenty-five-thousand-dollar dive watch
0:50:33and I said I wonder what type of glue
0:50:34attackies to seal the case and I of
0:50:39course and i have to wait too many
0:50:40wonderful way to do a 23 I can't tweet
0:50:43something like that without having two
0:50:44or three four people think I'm being
0:50:47serious and then they were like protect
0:50:49doesn't glue their watches together John
0:50:51and it was i guess i know i don't--it's
0:50:54you feel bad and kind of make fun of
0:50:56them because they're trying to help but
0:50:57it is the earnestness and their replies
0:50:59that it it i get that sometimes as well
0:51:03so but the other the more interesting
0:51:06things I got a whole bunch of replies
0:51:08from people who are like same thing
0:51:10happen to me same thing happened to me
0:51:11seems like it's more common with the
0:51:14stainless steel once at least
0:51:17anecdotally based on Twitter followers
0:51:19who tweeted me about it it because it
0:51:22wasn't only steel ones but it was
0:51:24primarily steel ones and knowing that
0:51:26the aluminum sport models selling
0:51:29greater quantity you would think that if
0:51:31it was as likely to happen to any other
0:51:33watch it would be mostly the sport
0:51:34models so i think that the problem is
0:51:36more typical with the steel I don't know
0:51:38if it's because they went through a
0:51:41different you know production line and
0:51:43that was the production line where the
0:51:44problem was I don't know if it was that
0:51:46the gluttony maybe they use the same
0:51:47glue but that glue and he's better to
0:51:50aluminum than to steal could just be
0:51:53honestly if you think about it could
0:51:55just be Apple has you know what 10 years
0:51:58of expertise working with aluminum and
0:52:01stainless steel is relatively new to
0:52:03their now that's brought that's probably
0:52:05the that's probably the explanation
0:52:07right there
0:52:08but anyway long story short a whole
0:52:09bunch of people wrote and said it
0:52:11happened to them they took it to the
0:52:12apple store and it was you know you
0:52:14gotta wait you can't they don't just
0:52:15give you a replacement on the spot but
0:52:16they take the watch away and and give
0:52:18you a replacement even if it's out of
0:52:20warranty and Amy's was out of warranty
0:52:22because we have never bought apple care
0:52:24for any apple products since 1991 so I
0:52:28did I took it to the apple store i did
0:52:31not seem to be recognized which I'm
0:52:33always worried about cuz i want to
0:52:34report on this as I you know like what
0:52:36if I'm just a normal apple customer what
0:52:38are you what happens when you take your
0:52:40Apple watch it after it falls apart on
0:52:42the charger i'm pretty sure that the
0:52:45people that the genius guy i dealt with
0:52:47did not you know you didn't recognize me
0:52:50and you know as soon as I describe the
0:52:52problem he was you know started typing
0:52:54it into his his ipod their
0:52:56accommodations you know before do well
0:52:59he didn't he heard it didn't seem at
0:53:02first and any looked it up and had to
0:53:03type in the serial number and then when
0:53:07he described the problem he said oh good
0:53:09you know even though this is our
0:53:11warranty that I can cover this you know
0:53:13and it seemed new to him and then he was
0:53:14and he laughed and said the first
0:53:18question I'd already told him how it you
0:53:19know how it was discovered that it
0:53:21wasn't dropped during just pulling it
0:53:22off the charger and he said though he
0:53:24said the first question is did the
0:53:25customer discovered the problem--
0:53:27removing the watch from the charger
0:53:29yeah so it did my own thing the end is
0:53:31known system
0:53:32yeah it's so known that there's a chain
0:53:34through the you know how did this happen
0:53:36that begins with did it happen
0:53:39pulling the watch off the charger so you
0:53:42know as we record the watch is in that
0:53:45325 day will tell you when it comes back
0:53:48. i'm curious if they're gonna if they
0:53:51replace it if they're going to replace
0:53:52it with a series 0 or a serious one
0:53:57yeah that's a good question the the yeah
0:53:59that was the trouble with the app i
0:54:01kinda want because I'm never on the
0:54:02swimming thing that now so i kinda want
0:54:05to get the the well first off great
0:54:09Hockenberry is a apparently a popular
0:54:11guess that's what he's written about
0:54:12that he's been using the original apple
0:54:15watch for swimming
0:54:16ever since he got it and let me the
0:54:17ocean where it's it's probably i would
0:54:19imagine the corrosiveness is is more and
0:54:21more problem but the problem is that the
0:54:24workout app does not
0:54:26you can't get the swimming on the rig on
0:54:29the original watch even with right
0:54:30updated OS like apples just not included
0:54:33so you have to get a new watch the
0:54:35problem is I i mean i i've kind of
0:54:38stopped wearing the app Washington
0:54:40day-to-day things like for me the I've
0:54:42trained my notifications so much that
0:54:44when i get a notification I almost
0:54:46always wanted you deal with it on the
0:54:48phone anyway I'm just super aggressive
0:54:51about not getting hardly any
0:54:52notifications
0:54:53but and the delay and looking at the
0:54:55time was just the that was kind of it I
0:54:59got benefits i I've back to a regular
0:55:01watch most of the time but i would like
0:55:04to i'd still like to track you know the
0:55:06the actual exercising so I want to get a
0:55:09maybe i'm considering a new one
0:55:11the problem is I personally just don't
0:55:14find the aluminum ones good looking at
0:55:16all like to me the stainless steel still
0:55:18looks so much better and actually the
0:55:19one that was really great is the is the
0:55:21white one
0:55:22so the problem is like I can't really
0:55:23justify getting the the new edition 12
0:55:27years while are right it might have just
0:55:29using it for four workouts like well
0:55:31maybe I'll start wearing a day today I'm
0:55:32like well now we are at I don't know so
0:55:34i i'm i'm stuck in paralysis
0:55:36uh right now but we'll see i'll probably
0:55:39i'll probably one of this work one side
0:55:41I think it would be I should anyway just
0:55:44to see what it's like how its improved
0:55:46relative to the current one
0:55:47yeah anyway that was my story about the
0:55:50Apple watch so I wonder I I i will I I
0:55:54look for
0:55:55I don't look for it but it sounds like I
0:55:57will be corroborating it soon
0:55:58exactly symptoms that that that you had
0:56:00you want to talk about I don't want to
0:56:04spend a long time on it but this this
0:56:06story of dash the developer of the dash
0:56:11app anybody has been reading daring
0:56:13fireball of the last week with no it
0:56:15long story short i do you want to
0:56:20summarize it its it's such a weird story
0:56:23yeah i think that i think that the i
0:56:26personally don't want to spend on
0:56:28Tidewater in part because it's still
0:56:31kind of unclear there's a new story that
0:56:32there is a Richie wrote this morning
0:56:34that I haven't fully read that
0:56:35apparently is more details are coming
0:56:37out and as well as things like it needs
0:56:41there's gonna be inherent speculation
0:56:43here i think the only the only comment I
0:56:46would have liked it sounds like this guy
0:56:47made some mistakes and probably you know
0:56:50what's the saying like that the cover-up
0:56:52is always worse than the crime right and
0:56:54like wasn't fully transparent about
0:56:57about his situation and so it's easy to
0:57:01look at it and putting balance and say
0:57:02well apple gave him a chance and with
0:57:04into the stuff and he did these bad
0:57:06things
0:57:06any kind of way the situation is one
0:57:08against the other the only I guess the
0:57:10only push back i would have to that is
0:57:13we're dealing on one side is the biggest
0:57:17corporation in the world where this
0:57:18particular developer and app doesn't
0:57:21make any difference to their bottom line
0:57:24and this other guy where like that this
0:57:25is his life it is it's his job and that
0:57:29changes sort of the the moral calculus
0:57:31for lack of a better term like it sounds
0:57:34like this guy definitely screwed up and
0:57:36he kind of covers his tracks and and you
0:57:39could be a very moralistic and
0:57:41legalistic about and say like sorry you
0:57:43screwed up like apples justified here
0:57:44and that's not wrong but i think it's
0:57:48it's it it's on apple and you have a
0:57:51situation with google with like YouTube
0:57:53accounts being suspended or adsense like
0:57:55that money disappearing like this happen
0:57:57again and again where the balance of
0:58:00power and the balance of injury is so
0:58:02out of whack that I think it behooves
0:58:06the sort of big players to to have more
0:58:10grace and more understanding and end it
0:58:12hopefully that's the way it's gonna work
0:58:13out but i had i think that that's the
0:58:15main point make this isn't like a
0:58:16one-to-one like who's right and who's
0:58:17wrong you have to consider like that
0:58:19where the consequences of these actions
0:58:21and you know hopefully it's going to
0:58:23work out in the end for this guy me
0:58:25selling and out for developers so him
0:58:28not being in the Indian Mac App Store
0:58:30particular it will you will probably be
0:58:33okay arm but any out that this might
0:58:36have a big picture sort of observation
0:58:38about the whole thing
0:58:39yeah it's the developers name is bugged
0:58:41out pronounce it closely close enough
0:58:43he's from Romania and bogdan popescu
0:58:46he's still I think is fairly young and
0:58:51it was confusing at first because we're
0:58:54more or less the little story is that
0:58:55there were two developer accounts tide
0:58:57they were related to the same bank
0:58:59accounts and credit card and the one
0:59:01account was full of smokes leeches easy
0:59:04apps and the other account only had the
0:59:09dash apps and dash is a an API browser
0:59:15and snippet browsers and snippets
0:59:17meaning you can enter your own little
0:59:18snippets attacks like
0:59:19frequent like if you do tech support or
0:59:20something like that you have a bunch of
0:59:22frequently used responses you can invoke
0:59:25dash type a couple of letters to get the
0:59:27saved snippet you want and boom there it
0:59:29is pasted into your email and it's a
0:59:32really great app i have it i don't do
0:59:34enough programming anymore that it's
0:59:36really been useful but i can see that
0:59:38it's super super useful i know that you
0:59:42know it people use it even instead like
0:59:44mac developers use it instead of xcode
0:59:47four document browsing it's so good it's
0:59:49you know and you know for people who are
0:59:52doing things that are not xcode like PHP
0:59:54or pearl or something like that it can
0:59:57be way better than the document browse
0:59:57be way better than the document browse
1:00:00documentation that typically invoke like
1:00:01through terminal or something like that
1:00:04it's a really well regarded app there's
1:00:07an iOS version and stuff like that and
1:00:08people at first when this guy's
1:00:10developer account that what Apple did it
1:00:11first was yank all of it they are all
1:00:14taken off the store and this guy said
1:00:15hey I they said I did a preview fraud I
1:00:18don't you know I didn't do that and
1:00:20people really did and I think rightly so
1:00:22and I think it was it was the right way
1:00:24for the community to go we're like hey I
1:00:26believe this guy because his apps don't
1:00:28look scary at all i use them in love
1:00:30it's a good apps and you know it went
1:00:33from there and i think it was you know I
1:00:35think it was good i didn't link to it at
1:00:37first and i'm glad i didn't I felt like
1:00:39my spidey-sense kicked in because I just
1:00:41felt like there was something fishy
1:00:42going on like it just didn't seem like
1:00:44the whole story was outside i didn't
1:00:46think i will say i feel a little bad
1:00:51that i wrote about this when I got I got
1:00:53I got to talk to apple the day that they
1:00:56they said no they should a statement
1:00:58about what happened and I link to our
1:01:02polls report about it because I didn't
1:01:03want to post a major article about it
1:01:06myself but I ended up doing so anyway
1:01:09but I felt a little bad posting about it
1:01:14when I did because it seemed like it we
1:01:16were only getting Apple side of the
1:01:17story and my instinct was we should wait
1:01:20to hear the passenger side too but I was
1:01:23getting on an airplane i was away for
1:01:25the weekend and I didn't want to wait
1:01:27four hours or trust that i'd be able to
1:01:29work on the Wi-Fi which is in hindsight
1:01:32I and I feel like it worked out i don't
1:01:34feel like i wrote anything that i had to
1:01:35retract or anything like that but it in
1:01:38hindsight I felt like I feel like that
1:01:40was kind of a bad decision
1:01:42I feel like I should have I should have
1:01:44been willing to completely miss the
1:01:45story or be way late on it then only
1:01:50only here one side of it even though I
1:01:53think Apple side was more right than
1:01:54wrong yet the other the other big point
1:01:58I would make is an eyesight and it's
1:02:01hard to know for sure what Apple's
1:02:02thinking was around this but I certainly
1:02:03saw this on twitter at is people were
1:02:07being very skeptical always someone
1:02:08would share their credit card or the
1:02:09share a bank account like that is
1:02:11absolutely reality in lots of country
1:02:13and I i think that you don't in the
1:02:15states the idea that you would and this
1:02:17is a for sure this is apple's biggest
1:02:20error for sure like they didn't even
1:02:21said they were sending the notifications
1:02:23to the fraudulent account not even
1:02:25though the two accounts were joint right
1:02:27so because they assume that in the same
1:02:30credit card they must be the same
1:02:31developer but when I was that and I
1:02:33don't do this not just because I live
1:02:35internationally but when i was at
1:02:36Microsoft working we were setting up the
1:02:37windows app store originally this was a
1:02:39one of the biggest problems we had to
1:02:41deal with it was very difficult is that
1:02:43like Apple you the developer counts
1:02:46needed to have a credit card years ago a
1:02:48nominal cost and but it turns out it's
1:02:51really hard to get a credit card in many
1:02:53countries of the world and even if you
1:02:55do have a credit card it often doesn't
1:02:56work with a us-based transaction because
1:03:00for fraud or whatever or they just want
1:03:02to internet the only work inside the
1:03:03country and it was like a multi-month
1:03:05project to get workarounds for this to
1:03:08work so there's a point being like this
1:03:10idea that two to assume that because to
1:03:13account system credit card there winked
1:03:15that's in lots of countries that may not
1:03:18be the case is very reasonable that may
1:03:20not be the case and I think so it's in
1:03:23reaction generally there was enough of
1:03:25an appreciation that might be the case
1:03:26anything like that really article he
1:03:29says that the other person was actually
1:03:31his mom that's what he was being kind of
1:03:33cagey about it but those particular
1:03:36details i think i just have wildly
1:03:40different reactions of people
1:03:41immediately assume that that sounds
1:03:43ridiculous and fraudulent from my
1:03:44reactions like that I can completely
1:03:47believe that's the case and the other
1:03:48thing with apple is now that the app
1:03:51store in this decision making is going
1:03:52up to Phil Schiller the phil schiller
1:03:55did not set up the app store that was
1:03:57under Eddy Cue and the reason why I
1:03:59think that's relevant is he didn't I I
1:04:03don't know but it's writing is
1:04:05reasonable to presume that film may not
1:04:09be familiar with the these sorts of
1:04:12things like the hassles of credit cards
1:04:14in different countries and bank accounts
1:04:16and why they might be combined just not
1:04:18because he's piece Dahmer doesn't care
1:04:20but he didn't have to go through the
1:04:21pain of figuring out all the workarounds
1:04:23to get that set up by Eddie cutie man to
1:04:25figure that out this out the edges music
1:04:26store
1:04:27that's not the app store the first time
1:04:28and if you don't even know about that
1:04:31then immediately it sounds super super
1:04:33sketchy whereas if you do know about
1:04:35that and so my initial reaction and I i
1:04:38was to be told believe it news it's was
1:04:42super believable if you understand the
1:04:43circumstances of different countries
1:04:45that are this infrastructure isn't there
1:04:48and i still think that I I think it was
1:04:51more like the cover-up is worse than
1:04:53that I i think in broad strokes there's
1:04:56probably like his story i think is is I
1:04:59still tend to think it's mostly tried he
1:05:01absolutely made mistakes and this is
1:05:03where I get to that sort of my original
1:05:04point what if you weighed in the balance
1:05:06did he make mistakes it seems clear he
1:05:08did but when you consider that if you
1:05:12take the totality of the situation and
1:05:14understanding different markets and the
1:05:16credit card thing the bank of thing and
1:05:18it's starting again developer it would
1:05:20be nice to have a little more slack and
1:05:25and mercy for lack of a better word in
1:05:27this situation and then I do hope it
1:05:30turns out the long run I definitely
1:05:31suspected you and I are on a slack where
1:05:35we talked about this before when public
1:05:36and I was early on thought hey I think
1:05:39there's an english as a second language
1:05:40problem here you know because I suspect
1:05:42that purpose cuse you know speaks but we
1:05:47now I now know romanian is his first
1:05:49language and english as a second
1:05:50language has written English is
1:05:51excellent truly excellent and I can see
1:05:54why some people would notice it but I
1:05:56see certain telltale signs that say that
1:05:57there's a certain stiffness to it that
1:06:00to me reads like
1:06:00english-as-a-second-language and even
1:06:03out matter how good it is it it went
1:06:05with didn't you know this firsthand when
1:06:07you-know-who living in taipei that the e
1:06:11nuance is the hardest thing to get right
1:06:13it's in a cell and this is a situation
1:06:17that required nuanced and I definitely
1:06:20think that there was i I think that
1:06:24there was certain bits of nuance that
1:06:28slip between the cracks and i think at
1:06:30to your point about you know that credit
1:06:33cards and bank accounts from Romania
1:06:36that work with us credit and bank
1:06:39account
1:06:39itunes systems and stuff like that there
1:06:41were some cultural differences that
1:06:45we're even harder to match up because of
1:06:50the english as a second language thing
1:06:52and I'd the whole thing to me was I it
1:06:54no matter what the true story is I I
1:06:57can't help but think that this was sort
1:06:59of a perfect storm of problems where by
1:07:03which i mean that part of the blow up on
1:07:06Twitter against apple when this when
1:07:10this guy's account was initially yanked
1:07:12was sort of and rightly so for now maybe
1:07:15i rightly so but justifiably so I of of
1:07:19from the developer community of wow
1:07:21here's a world where your entire
1:07:24livelihood can be pulled by apple and
1:07:28they don't even show you the evidence
1:07:29against you know which is kind of
1:07:33terrifying and you know Brent sentences
1:07:39written wrote a good piece about that I
1:07:41agreed with largely that you know
1:07:43there's there's a reason why you know
1:07:45that the foundation of like you know
1:07:48most modern judicial systems you know
1:07:51involved the right to be able to face
1:07:53the evidence that you're charged with
1:07:56you know that the the government can't
1:07:58just come and say we know that you
1:07:59committed this crime so therefore you're
1:08:02going to prison doesn't work like that
1:08:05well this isn't a judicial system this
1:08:07isn't the law of the land applets within
1:08:08apples rights as a private company to do
1:08:10what they want
1:08:12I i do think though in hindsight as the
1:08:16more of this story has come out as as
1:08:18much of it has i think the one thing you
1:08:20can look at and say well there's a you
1:08:21know Apple surely deals with actual
1:08:23fraud outright fraud on a daily basis I
1:08:27don't think they're the appstore
1:08:29anti-fraud team is very busy seven days
1:08:32a week
1:08:33ah i think it's something that this is
1:08:36the first time in all the years the app
1:08:38store has been up that we've something
1:08:40like this has come to light we're still
1:08:41you know somebody might have been had
1:08:43their account pulled and maybe shouldn't
1:08:46have write about them are probably just
1:08:48the pure fraudsters so they disappear
1:08:50and no one notices it was the it was the
1:08:52fraud account
1:08:53don't tied to the legitimate account
1:08:56that I think made this made this
1:08:58unfortunate and ya know in a2 and it's
1:09:03very fair . it's the same thing with
1:09:05with google and youtube in any of these
1:09:07other sites that deal with this i mean
1:09:08they're they're dealing with scale and
1:09:11it's it's hard that I from an individual
1:09:15perspective unless you've actually
1:09:16worked at these at these companies will
1:09:18destroy before where I think it's like
1:09:20my second day at microsoft and I was in
1:09:22like some business real like a monthly
1:09:24business review sort of meeting and
1:09:25they're just going down this list and
1:09:26talk about OLX percentage in Brazil and
1:09:28Bobby stern yearbook and it was
1:09:30mind-blowing like just the casualness
1:09:32that they were talking about like
1:09:33massive regions of the world and like
1:09:35the user numbers and engagement and
1:09:37stuff like that and you get used to it
1:09:39after a while once you're there but the
1:09:42scale that these companies are operating
1:09:44on they can't you know there's there's a
1:09:47limit between doing all sort of
1:09:48one-on-one judicious review and needing
1:09:50to have systematic approaches and I did
1:09:54find it encouraging that you know the
1:09:57phone call I posted that Apple was
1:09:58engaging someone I still it i am still
1:10:01unclear why it happens only when all the
1:10:03press release and in did this big thing
1:10:05I would have liked to but I can I can
1:10:08have sympathy for for both sides i've
1:10:10been fortunate to see both sides and but
1:10:13it is a challenge for both is if your
1:10:16Apple because you're dealing with scale
1:10:18like I said what was that Microsoft I
1:10:20got used to the scale stuff like it just
1:10:22became normal but that's it's it's not
1:10:24normal it's a very it's a very sort of
1:10:26narrow way to view the world just view
1:10:30it at scale and not to forget about the
1:10:33individual sort of level and you could
1:10:35see that happy you could see how that
1:10:37could happen on the management side and
1:10:40you have a sort of mismatch of the
1:10:42individual perspective versus the the
1:10:44unmask perspective and it's a hard
1:10:46problem it's a hard one for both sides
1:10:48and one of the things i think it's
1:10:51exacerbated by the cultural things and
1:10:53the and the International things in the
1:10:55language things one of the things that's
1:10:56most extraordinary about it though is
1:10:58that we know from and
1:11:01and you know right or wrong but one of
1:11:03the things that popescu did was required
1:11:05work hard to fuck off from apple
1:11:07developer relations and we know from the
1:11:09guy from Apple who spoke to him that
1:11:10this clearly did percolate up to the
1:11:12level where Phil Schiller was fully
1:11:14aware of it right which is kind of
1:11:16amazing you know in terms of the scale
1:11:18and in terms of where this got to that
1:11:20the this you know one man you know indie
1:11:24developers problems with being somehow
1:11:27tied to a different account or a joint
1:11:30account however you want to put it and
1:11:31what should happen whatever it
1:11:33percolated up to the point where Phil
1:11:35Schiller was fully informed on it and
1:11:36and was making decisions on which is
1:11:38really kind of extraordinary yeah and
1:11:40i'm not sure if it's a good thing right
1:11:41the it kind of speaks to their being a
1:11:44lack of process here right now i'm not
1:11:46sure if that's your decision that should
1:11:48populate that that high but again they
1:11:50might have been
1:11:51I either i think there was the
1:11:52extraordinary circumstances here is that
1:11:54the combination of legitimate and
1:11:56instrument right whereas most processors
1:11:58are just a legitimate so they would they
1:12:00get cotton that are deleted no one knows
1:12:02no one cares right was that it was the
1:12:04combination here and an apple tying
1:12:07those two accounts together because of
1:12:08the same credit card and and not sending
1:12:11the notices to the account as a whole is
1:12:14sending it to the fraudulent account
1:12:15right but anyhow
1:12:17hopefully I i hope it works out I feel
1:12:19bad for the guy you know it's one of
1:12:21those things you . they always should
1:12:23have been more clear and upfront what
1:12:24exactly was going on in and rebuild
1:12:26everything but it was like if you were
1:12:28in the same situation and the old good i
1:12:32guess i think there but for the grace of
1:12:34god go i sort of thing and end with
1:12:36tremendous gratitude that my business is
1:12:37based on the on the open web and is not
1:12:39a closed ecosystem with no side loading
1:12:42no way around the sort of Apple
1:12:44gatekeeper all right I think that's
1:12:47enough heard a short segment on dash but
1:12:50hopefully I great same way i hope that
1:12:52somehow this still works out such that
1:12:54dash can get back into the app store
1:12:55because it really is a good app and i
1:12:57really do think ultimately the guy has
1:12:59good intentions and you know the quality
1:13:02of the work is yeah and like just like
1:13:03the death penalty
1:13:05I mean it's not physical death but like
1:13:08death of like the app in his company
1:13:10hey I mean maybe I'm just a softy but it
1:13:12seems that seems like a bit of a
1:13:15bummer yeah well the good news is the
1:13:18worst-case scenario still got the mac
1:13:20that map that he can the mac app can run
1:13:22outside the app store and do his own
1:13:24he's already had you know it you can
1:13:26already get it outside the app store and
1:13:29he has a system in place so that people
1:13:30who bought it through the app store can
1:13:32get the non appstore version without
1:13:34having to pay for it again so the
1:13:37wording that the thing that is the thing
1:13:38that bums me out about this episode and
1:13:40what's up with apple is is there's a
1:13:43certain segment that is so instinctually
1:13:46in defending Apple no matter what and so
1:13:49you had a lot of people is particularly
1:13:51the developers that were very skeptical
1:13:54of apple and defend this guy which is
1:13:55great but then but meantime there's a
1:13:57lot of people on Twitter that are we
1:13:59gonna know for sure a drawn-out it is
1:14:01sort of just it's it became tribalistic
1:14:04I think that too quickly and then you
1:14:06kind of have this weird scenario where I
1:14:08think you and again we talked to some of
1:14:10these guys were defending him and they
1:14:12kind of felt out on an island because
1:14:14they're like saying that you know a
1:14:15playback singer game in your getting the
1:14:17sort of attacks on social media and so
1:14:19as soon as Apple releases some sort of
1:14:20evidence that means it's right
1:14:22the instinct for those people who
1:14:23initially defended the developer is like
1:14:25snap together sighs oh ok i did my best
1:14:28but now he's gone and the truth is as
1:14:31with the vast majority things there's
1:14:32great in the middle both sides screwed
1:14:34up
1:14:34I you know for a particular
1:14:36communications . like that's definitely
1:14:38a screw-up and eat dad just black this
1:14:43is still not getting philosophical but
1:14:45like there's no most matters are gray
1:14:47and this is probably a perfect example
1:14:49of that is why it's hard to talk about
1:14:50because it if there's there it's very
1:14:52much in the indegree reafon and again
1:14:54hopefully in the water and it works out
1:14:56for everyone i will say well before we
1:14:58move on i'll say also in the same what
1:15:00regard the other thought that occurred
1:15:02to me is this is why Apple stays keeps
1:15:05its corporate mouth shut about almost
1:15:07everything
1:15:08yes infuriating is that can be and as
1:15:10opaque is it can make the company b it's
1:15:13why they just don't talk about stuff
1:15:16even when they want to even when they
1:15:18feel like they've been falsely accused
1:15:19or they know they've been falsely
1:15:22accused and that you know that you know
1:15:24somebody says X and it's not true and
1:15:27they don't come out and
1:15:28they know that's not true here's why
1:15:29they just take it they just take it
1:15:31because they kind of can't win
1:15:33it's all you know that they can let it
1:15:35stand keep their mouths shut and let
1:15:37some amount of people think that this
1:15:39false thing is true or they can come out
1:15:42and do to dispute it even they can't
1:15:44even prove it but then they look like a
1:15:46bully that you know literally the
1:15:48biggest and but didn't the biggest
1:15:49company in in the world I coming out
1:15:53against you know in this case literally
1:15:55a one-man company so ya think it's sort
1:15:59of a no-lose situation and a no-win
1:16:00situation and I can see why the lesser
1:16:02you know that the the better route for
1:16:06them is usually keep their mouths shut
1:16:08totally alright you do you think that
1:16:10Apple should allow sideloading of apps
1:16:12by the an iOS no I do not
1:16:14if I were if I worked at Apple and I was
1:16:16in charge are they asked my opinion
1:16:17should we allow sideloading of apps in
1:16:20iOS i would say no in an ideal world
1:16:24where there's no bad actors yes that
1:16:27would be the right way to go but I I you
1:16:30know this so the example i'm going to
1:16:32show it's a is dropbox there's you know
1:16:36whole thing what I haven't really
1:16:37written or talk much about it but there
1:16:39was the thing that came out over the
1:16:40summer over somebody and found out that
1:16:42dropbox the dropbox app for for Mac was
1:16:47like it would say hey we need your admin
1:16:50password just to you know finish
1:16:51installation and then they would take
1:16:53that as admin privileges and write
1:16:55themselves into the database that
1:16:58controls who has which apps have
1:17:01accessibility access to your app to your
1:17:03mac which is really sensitive because
1:17:05absent have that accessibility access
1:17:07you really have to trust them because
1:17:08they can like do things like see all
1:17:10your keystrokes or see what you're
1:17:12clicking on and stuff like that and then
1:17:15I just that but they stored the password
1:17:17know that you did you start the password
1:17:18they know they didn't always work i
1:17:21forget the exact details of it up i'll
1:17:23put a link i started putting people
1:17:25thought they were still people were
1:17:27reasonably thinking they stored the
1:17:28password but they didn't what they did
1:17:30was grant themselves access to that
1:17:32database so that they could just keep
1:17:34writing to that data that the all
1:17:36databases I'm excited again tom
1:17:39so they were more or less grew instead
1:17:41they weren't taking your admin password
1:17:42but they were granting themselves
1:17:44permanent admin privileges to your
1:17:46accessibility preferences i think is a
1:17:48very fair way of saying it
1:17:50and what do you say that way it sounds
1:17:52as terrible as it well it's a betrayal
1:17:55of trust it really isit's shenanigans
1:17:57and it shouldn't be happening
1:17:58there's no need for it it's really as
1:18:00far as what I've heard is that the whole
1:18:01thing is just that enable some sort of
1:18:03integration with microsoft office files
1:18:06something about the complexity of
1:18:08Microsoft offices you know bundled file
1:18:12format with I don't even you know for
1:18:15people like me you don't even have
1:18:17office $YEAR installed it's ridiculous
1:18:19that they're doing something that i
1:18:20would consider you know almost like
1:18:22malware like behavior however good their
1:18:24intentions are and you know they do
1:18:28things they drop box uh you know that
1:18:32does some things that they monitor all
1:18:34access to the file system and depending
1:18:35on how powerful your mac is it can
1:18:37actually significantly slowed down
1:18:38operations like unzipping files and
1:18:41stuff like that because they look there
1:18:44snooping at every single action in your
1:18:46file system whether it's inside the
1:18:48dropbox folder or not which is contrary
1:18:50to how it used to work and contrary to
1:18:53me to how any reasonable person would
1:18:55think dropbox works i would think
1:18:57yes of course they're looking at
1:18:58everything that happens inside the
1:19:00dropbox folder that's why don't you know
1:19:02i would assume that they need to so that
1:19:03they can keep everything in sync it
1:19:05seems ridiculous to me that they're
1:19:06looking at anything that happens outside
1:19:08the dropbox folder because i don't want
1:19:10them to but they are you know I did some
1:19:13timing tests on my you know new five
1:19:15were relatively new 5k imac that has all
1:19:18these extra courses and stuff like that
1:19:19node SSD Drive and it's hardly
1:19:22noticeable but on like a macbook air or
1:19:25something like that it can you know
1:19:26significantly slowed down stuff and
1:19:29that's my example of an app that's not
1:19:31malware it's doing what they said but
1:19:33they're taking advantage of you know the
1:19:36fact that an app that you download on
1:19:39the mac from dropbox.com kenmore let's
1:19:41do whatever it can get away with and
1:19:45however whatever x y&z the good things
1:19:49would be if you could sideload apps
1:19:51on on iOS and admittedly I said you know
1:19:53install all sorts of apps from outside
1:19:56the app store on a mac and I wouldn't
1:19:57have it any other way on the Mac it's an
1:20:00advantage that iOS you know it's it's
1:20:02it's a trade-off there's trade-offs to
1:20:03the max style there's trade-offs to the
1:20:05iOS style but I feel like Apple has an
1:20:07advantage by having one operating system
1:20:09that takes the one side and one
1:20:11operating system that takes the other
1:20:12yeah i agree i agree i mean i would as a
1:20:16user I would prefer to be recycled apps
1:20:18and where I developed by a developer i
1:20:21would like to know that there's that
1:20:22there's that option to to to do that in
1:20:27debt you the app store isn't the only
1:20:28gate keeper but if i put on my sort of
1:20:31you know business hat and think about
1:20:33what concerns apple-like at what
1:20:36concerns apple is their operating at
1:20:38this unbelievable scale with with
1:20:39hundreds of millions of customers and
1:20:41secure is a huge target and yes you can
1:20:46lock it down to the extent but then
1:20:47they're like fishing becomes a an
1:20:49optionally get people to install these
1:20:51apps and people will people are I think
1:20:53people are not careful about the stuff
1:20:55in a way that probably you and I and
1:20:57most listeners of this are I think I'd i
1:21:00agree with you it's even though all the
1:21:02problems of having a single gatekeeper
1:21:04in the fact that you had a situation
1:21:05with with this developer where Apple can
1:21:08have like literally have a kill switch
1:21:10on his car on his account those are all
1:21:14true and they that means it's really on
1:21:16Apple to make sure they get that sort of
1:21:19stuff right but I agreed for the from a
1:21:23business perspective it doesn't make
1:21:24sense to to open it up so yeah we're on
1:21:27the same page right i think that the
1:21:29advantage of having both the mac OS and
1:21:31I mean we could probably do a whole show
1:21:32about this but the advantage of having
1:21:34mac OS and iOS at the same time and I'm
1:21:37firmly of the belief that mac OS is a
1:21:39notice
1:21:40oh maybe even unpopular among the pundit
1:21:42class i don't think that it is on its
1:21:44deathbed and it's going to be replaced
1:21:46by iOS any year now I think Mac OS is
1:21:49thriving as it's ever been
1:21:52I think the way Apple sees it and I
1:21:54think they're happy with it is that
1:21:55they've got one operating system that
1:21:57starts from the bottom up in other words
1:22:00it's in this is Iowa's don't talk about
1:22:02iOS and it's for anybody in every
1:22:04ready and it's the simpler one it both
1:22:07you know in terms of the user interface
1:22:09but also in terms of the technical
1:22:11capabilities you know that it doesn't
1:22:13you know only had the only output is a
1:22:16lightning port and you have to plug in a
1:22:18dongle even to get to a USB you know the
1:22:23multitasking is a lot simpler the apps
1:22:25you know any app that you install has to
1:22:27come from the app store where it's been
1:22:28vetted and it could be killed at any
1:22:30minute
1:22:31the multitasking system is such that any
1:22:34app has to be ready to be killed at any
1:22:35moment and then they've got this other
1:22:38operating system mac OS that starts from
1:22:39the top down where it's that it's it's
1:22:42therefore the most expert of expert
1:22:44users you know if you really are you
1:22:46know you want to have a unix terminal
1:22:48and command line on your system
1:22:52you've got it i think that really is
1:22:55very strong place to be and I think it's
1:22:56worked out very very well yeah I
1:22:59completely agree i think the i find it
1:23:01bizarre that people think they're going
1:23:04to be seen together in it's it's it's
1:23:06really viewing the problem from the
1:23:07wrong perspective because it it's sort
1:23:09of like a you're looking at it from a
1:23:10complexity of apples gonna have to
1:23:12manage multiple operating systems mobile
1:23:14well that's their job that's what like
1:23:16it's their job to manage that complexity
1:23:18and keep it simple for the user
1:23:19like what what the proposal that they
1:23:22combine the two quote-unquote simplifies
1:23:25it for Apple but it makes it more
1:23:27complicated for the user because you
1:23:29have a you have a overly complicated
1:23:31operating system on one device and a way
1:23:35to lock down over simplified on another
1:23:38device and that's to completely
1:23:40misunderstand i think the way that Apple
1:23:42thinks about its products I mean ed the
1:23:45idea that you should was presented to
1:23:47the user should be simple and what's
1:23:49what's the like the einstein quote about
1:23:50simplicity whatever liking everything
1:23:52should be as simple as possible but not
1:23:53more so
1:23:54exactly exactly and and that apple would
1:23:58prioritize its internal efficiency in
1:24:02maintaining two operating systems and
1:24:04put that complexity onto the user that
1:24:06seems counter to the entire way Apple
1:24:09thinks about simplicity and matching
1:24:10complexity right the way I've put it at
1:24:13the past I forget where I
1:24:15I have the einstein quote memorized
1:24:17although like all great quotes
1:24:19supposedly that quote is apocryphal and
1:24:21maybe was never said by Einstein or you
1:24:23said something that was not quite as
1:24:25clever but people cleaned up over the
1:24:27years but anyway that's the quote that's
1:24:28attributed to and I'm sticking to it
1:24:30my line is something to the effect of
1:24:32its the heaviness the commune of mac OS
1:24:35that allows iOS to be so light that if
1:24:38they got rid of the mac they have to
1:24:40make iOS so much more complex to pick up
1:24:42the things that the mac does that iOS
1:24:43can't that it would wreck iOS and all of
1:24:48the things they've done over the years
1:24:49and I think it's the same thing is true
1:24:50on windows to all of the ways that over
1:24:52the years
1:24:53Apple and Microsoft have tried to make
1:24:55simple modes for mac or windows they
1:24:59fail they they fall short there used to
1:25:01be like the simple finder on on Mac OS
1:25:04which was like a mode you can put the
1:25:06mac in where the finder only showed you
1:25:08instead of showing you like the whole
1:25:09file system it just showed you like a
1:25:11panel full of your apps it's there's
1:25:15still like that launch window things get
1:25:17lunch or whatever he asked the same idea
1:25:19its yeah and I think that that launcher
1:25:22for mac OS what's called and everything
1:25:24the thing I never liked launchpad
1:25:26I never I never use it they could just
1:25:27erase it if they could just drop it from
1:25:29Sierra and I would never even notice
1:25:31because it's it's irrelevant and I think
1:25:35anything any attempt like that to make
1:25:36mac OS too much iose is a failure and I
1:25:40think any anything they ever did
1:25:42although i don't think there's ever been
1:25:43something like that but anything they
1:25:44did that made iOS more too much mic mac
1:25:46OS would wreck the good parts of Iowa or
1:25:49a you could argue this was gonna go to
1:25:52go back to the watch this is the mistake
1:25:53they made in in watch version one was
1:25:56they they should have developed it
1:25:59we're in this case the heaviness was on
1:26:02iOS iphone and the watch should have
1:26:05been white like the ipod right the ipod
1:26:06was it was the perfect example of this
1:26:08what made it so great was all the
1:26:11complexity of managing your music was
1:26:12all awful on the computer and all the
1:26:15ipod did was play music and and it made
1:26:17it so much more powerful and I think the
1:26:19mistake that was in version one of the
1:26:22watch was with that washer that
1:26:23honeycomb of apps and all that sort of
1:26:25thing like it was
1:26:26it was trying to take pack an iphone
1:26:29into it make it self sufficient and in
1:26:31the long run I i still think there's a
1:26:33future where the watch is the center
1:26:35like you want to get seller keep
1:26:37building is much more powerful and and
1:26:38their the watch becomes heavy and like
1:26:41your airports become light or something
1:26:43along those lines but we're not there
1:26:44yet and I think that's if you wanted to
1:26:48to encapsulate where version one of the
1:26:51watchman wrong i think that it's
1:26:53somewhere in there I know that there are
1:26:56people in this before so it's really
1:26:58screwed by jumping in before I did the
1:27:00sponsor it but it's a good topic i know
1:27:03that there are people listening to us
1:27:04who are frustrated and they're there
1:27:06I I feel your frustration its people who
1:27:09do want sideloading and they want that
1:27:11because they can tell how for them it
1:27:13would make iOS even better and I don't
1:27:16deny that at all from me
1:27:18iOS would be better if I could sideload
1:27:20apps like I can on a map meaning that i
1:27:23could just get a piano version of
1:27:25application x straight from the
1:27:27developer not through the app store and
1:27:29and put it on my phone and maybe it
1:27:32would mean I'd have a version of a
1:27:37amazon video for my apple TV because I
1:27:41could side load it and then the right
1:27:42would get around you know that to me is
1:27:44one of the worst things about apple tvs
1:27:45i don't have amazon have amazon prime
1:27:47account i think amazon has some of the
1:27:48best and original content I mean it's
1:27:51maybe not
1:27:52they're not quite up there with Netflix
1:27:54HBO but their second tier and it's just
1:27:58such a pain in the ass to have to load
1:27:59it on my phone and airplay it over to
1:28:01the appletv rather than just get it on
1:28:03apple TV but I totally understand mrs.
1:28:05point of view that they don't want to
1:28:07give up the thirty percent or have a
1:28:10version that you can't buy stuff from I
1:28:12don't know what you know but sideloading
1:28:14would obviously get around that I can
1:28:15see how that would make it better but
1:28:17the thing i want to say you know i think
1:28:19i want to express the people who are
1:28:21frustrated by that is it's not about us
1:28:23the mac is there for people like us and
1:28:25you know we've got the system like that
1:28:28but you can't deny that the fact that
1:28:30you can screw up a mac by installing the
1:28:33wrong thing has led to an awful lot of
1:28:35people who screwed up there Mac by
1:28:37installing the wrong thing
1:28:38I can't emphasize enough what an amazing
1:28:41weight off the shoulders it is to
1:28:43non-technical users to have a computer
1:28:45like the iPhone the iPad that they can't
1:28:49screw up it is a big benefits benefits
1:28:52developers to because people download a
1:28:55million more apps or what way more than
1:28:56a million like exponentially more apps
1:28:59on the phone because they're not scared
1:29:01of apps i need heart it's hard it's hard
1:29:03to remember now but you'll back 10 years
1:29:05and people were scared to install stuff
1:29:07on their computers oh absolutely it and
1:29:10that would be
1:29:11and once in the problem is you say all
1:29:13only technically you should do it will
1:29:15know you like you get to things like
1:29:17what's with the accessibility thing in
1:29:19china right with the home button where
1:29:20people put you get these people do weird
1:29:24stuff with their phones because it
1:29:25becomes a thing to do and there's like
1:29:27tutorials and videos about it like
1:29:29people lots of people that shouldn't
1:29:31would enable sideloading and then what
1:29:34happens you can e-mail say all your you
1:29:36get some someone puts up a notification
1:29:37uh you know there are they slipped
1:29:40something into the app store they put up
1:29:41with Jimmy app to put on vacations do
1:29:42you update something you click a button
1:29:44and it goes to sorry uh original website
1:29:47and downloads it cycles a nap because
1:29:49you enabled it for some reason or other
1:29:50and now you have met a malware type app
1:29:53on your computer are on your phone and
1:29:55the like this stuff will happen it
1:29:58absolutely will happen and the fact that
1:30:00right now the you see this on jailbroken
1:30:03phones right when you see a report about
1:30:05malware on the phone is almost always
1:30:07happening to jailbroken phones & 2
1:30:12in that case you kind of brought it on
1:30:13yourself it's super-clear you're doing
1:30:15something you shouldn't do when you're
1:30:16jailbreaking it if it was apple enabled
1:30:20and apple endorsed even if not by
1:30:22default just the number of people that
1:30:24would do that and expose themselves
1:30:26would be huge and it would it be support
1:30:29nightmare for apple and it would be bad
1:30:31for developers to people start getting
1:30:33scared of apps again and that would be a
1:30:35terrible place to be
1:30:36what was the name of amazon there's a
1:30:39company that Amazon's that like ranks
1:30:41websites by traffic is that is a call
1:30:44Alexa even know that now that's the name
1:30:47is like their Serie type thing
1:30:48no I was the name of that
1:30:50and that used to get its measurements
1:30:52through like the Amazon toolbar or
1:30:54something like that was the name you
1:30:56remember and it doesn't seem like
1:30:58anybody really
1:30:58oh yeah baby was made was alexa i think
1:31:01it was called alexa but it was and they
1:31:02do like a rankings invite the top
1:31:03thousand websites and stuff like that
1:31:05and when you have like the internet yeah
1:31:07right i totally forgot about that
1:31:09yeah that's what this is that's funny
1:31:11one time a long time ago i was i was at
1:31:13a conference and I got in i was cut into
1:31:18a poker game late at night with a bunch
1:31:20of people and one of the guys worked at
1:31:24a lecture or something like that and
1:31:25this was awhile ago maybe even like 10
1:31:27years ago and it was relaxing mattered
1:31:29more and daring fireball was at the time
1:31:30rated terribly and alexa i mean like way
1:31:33their estimates of my web traffic were
1:31:35way less than i knew it to be just
1:31:36because I could look at my logs and I
1:31:39asked him about and it didn't really
1:31:40matter too much to me because the light
1:31:42wasn't really interested in the type of
1:31:43advertising that was like did at the
1:31:45time they would you know if you wanted
1:31:47like typical advert web advertising it
1:31:50your Alexa ranking mattered in terms of
1:31:53like the rate you get and I did wasn't
1:31:56didn't want to pursue that we could do
1:31:57it again we do all show about my
1:31:59thoughts on web advertising but at least
1:32:00in terms of like wow if I need to at
1:32:03least I could it was like wow that door
1:32:05isn't even open to me because I'm Way
1:32:06undercounted and he said I of course
1:32:09your way undercounted of course because
1:32:10do you know all the measurements for
1:32:12Alexa come from people who installed the
1:32:14Amazon toolbar and almost everybody
1:32:16installs the Amazon toolbar did it by
1:32:18accident or doesn't how it got there and
1:32:20your people are reading fireballer smart
1:32:22enough not to install it and most of
1:32:23them are on max where it doesn't even
1:32:24run anyway it was thick
1:32:28oh no matter of fact about it yeah right
1:32:30but that's the exact same food i think
1:32:33about those web tool bars a lot you know
1:32:34the people used to get those and they do
1:32:36you know he even said like we know that
1:32:37most people get it don't even know how
1:32:38they got it again there's never that's
1:32:41never going to happen on iOS yeah anyway
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1:34:23it makes me wonder why the original one
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1:34:58they charge half what other companies do
1:34:59because other companies make them and
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1:35:05walgreens or CVS or walmart wherever the
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1:36:05what else we got on the agenda for today
1:36:12Oh hilariously I cannot find the the
1:36:14browser tab head that's it
1:36:16it's a he did that go back I gotta write
1:36:18a message at we can go . it so I now
1:36:20have it open dice my computer and I
1:36:21wonder why end up with under Dave's I
1:36:23about Twitter getting acquired what are
1:36:26your thoughts on that hasn't happened
1:36:27yet
1:36:29I for Twitter it sorted out its there's
1:36:33so much smoke is one of those where
1:36:34there's smoke there's fire type things
1:36:36and yeah I think that's Twitter
1:36:37generated smoke because they wanted i do
1:36:41think they were wants to be sold yet
1:36:44with a problem the twitters stuck in the
1:36:46end the reason they're stuck is that the
1:36:48company is overvalued for what it is
1:36:51right now and it has been for a long
1:36:52time
1:36:53the problem is that the number one thing
1:36:55I suspect that is propping up the stock
1:36:57price is the presumption that someone's
1:36:59gonna buy it but it's keeping the price
1:37:02high enough that no one wants to buy it
1:37:03so it like the the price needs to go
1:37:06down for it to be a viable acquisition
1:37:10but it won't go down because people are
1:37:14counting on it not going down part i'm
1:37:15getting a good price for the stock so
1:37:17it's really kind of stuck in this sort
1:37:19of catch-22 situation there was a arm
1:37:21you know that everyone always think
1:37:23about the sheet requires like Google
1:37:25makes a lot of sense i've written about
1:37:26this i've written but it's a fair bit i
1:37:27wrote a post a while ago we
1:37:28is in the day update but walking
1:37:31throughout the Twitter self scenarios
1:37:32and who should buy the problems with it
1:37:34Google is all obviously was always made
1:37:36the most sense in part because they have
1:37:39a socket social they did that sort of
1:37:41having a feed and Twitter needs to go to
1:37:45somebody who can a where if you just go
1:37:49to some random company you have all
1:37:51Twitter's problems are going with you
1:37:52where's google already has advertising
1:37:53scale for example they already have
1:37:55automated selling with something Twitter
1:37:56really found facedown like they're still
1:37:58selling the best for their money still
1:37:59made by like selling ads to big
1:38:02companies or big ad agencies as opposed
1:38:05to like the mom-and-pop signing up to
1:38:06facebook or google which scales so much
1:38:09better and makes it makes a lot of money
1:38:10for them
1:38:12we're never really got that working
1:38:13going to let Google that already has
1:38:15that infrastructure in place makes sense
1:38:17the problem is google is Twitter sign
1:38:19this deal with google a year-and-a-half
1:38:21ago 21 give Google other data and
1:38:25actually unquote fire hose right and to
1:38:28to incorporate with double clicks maybe
1:38:30part of the system which means google
1:38:32basically got really outside of like
1:38:35owning it and what they could do with it
1:38:37they got everything they need from
1:38:38Twitter they got the data and they got
1:38:40the platform to sell ads against my why
1:38:42buy it when they got everything they
1:38:44already need
1:38:45why buy the cow when you're getting the
1:38:46milk for free right exactly exactly so
1:38:49that there was a real there's a good
1:38:51post by armed uh I think it's john
1:38:54brought his brother capital is the site
1:38:56he's this guy in Australia is famous for
1:38:57doing these deep dive investigations of
1:38:59companies and he can like drive their
1:39:01stock down like like no tomorrow but he
1:39:03did a arm he he wrote it i thought was
1:39:07over a good post and I I haven't written
1:39:10about his post specifically but
1:39:11basically his point is I think it's a
1:39:14fair point we always intact we always
1:39:15think about the strategic value of
1:39:16Twitter and that's why Google should buy
1:39:18for example or like Salesforce has been
1:39:21a big rumor and they're going to get
1:39:22data on and all that sort of thing but
1:39:24his point was that like
1:39:25cool twitter makes a fair bit of revenue
1:39:28the problem is their costs are just
1:39:31enormous and particularly want to
1:39:32include stock-based compensation either
1:39:34lose like 500 million dollars a year
1:39:36which is just a massive amount of money
1:39:38is a pretty stable amount of money and
1:39:40they've been increasing over the
1:39:41past several years while the revenues
1:39:43out they've increased their employee
1:39:45basic usually increase their costs
1:39:47hugely me and his point is this business
1:39:49is what it is
1:39:50if you basically go in there and clean
1:39:53house and just keep the business running
1:39:56as it is it could actually be a
1:39:58profitable company that throws off a
1:40:00fair amount of cash so he thinks that it
1:40:02needs the this best place for them is
1:40:04like a leveraged buyout and someone goes
1:40:06in just cleans house gets rid of a bunch
1:40:07staff like cleans up the company makes a
1:40:10profitable and then and then sells it
1:40:12and then it'd be much more palatable for
1:40:14salesforce the buyer for google by the
1:40:16problem of course is Twitter very well
1:40:18may die along the way it's easy for me
1:40:20to say and I really hate to be callous
1:40:23about it I really do because you know
1:40:25job is important thing but I never at
1:40:28the headcount group at Twitter makes no
1:40:30sense to me at all
1:40:31it it it's I don't understand and i'm a
1:40:35long I mean a very early user number you
1:40:39know I think I send up in late $MONTH
1:40:402006 long time user I have a lot of
1:40:45followers a that you know I i think i
1:40:49get twitter and i know that you know
1:40:51different people use twitter in
1:40:52different ways but I i love Twitter I
1:40:57really do i use it everyday it is it's
1:40:59really turned into the primary way that
1:41:02interact with readers daring fireball
1:41:03more for more sore than email and it's
1:41:08you know it's funny I think it's one
1:41:11thing i never get anymore ever
1:41:13I can't remember the last time honestly
1:41:15I might even be years since somebody's
1:41:16complained about the fact that daring
1:41:18fireball doesn't have comments on
1:41:19articles and part of it is that I think
1:41:21that it you know it's it's become clear
1:41:24to more and more people that I was right
1:41:26all along that comments on articles are
1:41:28not a good idea but I think the bigger
1:41:31one of the bigger reasons is that it
1:41:33more and more people realized that that
1:41:35Twitter conversations with at Gruber are
1:41:40just as good
1:41:41you know it's or at least better i think
1:41:44actually you know that there's an
1:41:46interaction with me and with other
1:41:48readers you know who you know who follow
1:41:50me
1:41:51it's a fantastic thing I don't
1:41:53understand why there's so many
1:41:55people who work at twitter it's it's
1:41:56already does what it does i don't
1:41:58understand what what is going on there
1:41:59and it's yeah they had numbers are the
1:42:02numbers are all sorry I think we want to
1:42:03talk to us last time but Dustin Curtis
1:42:05posted the revenue per employee for 2015
1:42:09yes and yeah Yahoo was at the bottom 419
1:42:13thousand per employee
1:42:14twitter is for $MONEY and sixty-two
1:42:15thousand per employee so what ya whoever
1:42:17microsoft 789 thousand google 1.1
1:42:21million per employee facebook 1.4
1:42:23million and Apple 2 million per employee
1:42:24and then you get to profit & Louisiana
1:42:27was making a product for employees back
1:42:29then
1:42:29twitter was losing a hundred and thirty
1:42:31thousand dollars per employee right i
1:42:33mean Facebook's making 290,000 apple
1:42:36speaking foreign 60,000 I mean it's yeah
1:42:38it's it is there's this weird attitude
1:42:42about Twitter and you see this all the
1:42:44time like all twitter has so much
1:42:45potential like all the twitter is did
1:42:48twitter is a ten-year-old company right
1:42:51like at some point use needle it's
1:42:54almost like treating them disrespect
1:42:56that they're like this little like this
1:42:58incapable sort of being like we should
1:43:02expect more from table company and then
1:43:05twitter is been dude I've written two
1:43:07tons of it we've talked about like
1:43:09twitter has been grossly mismanaged for
1:43:11many years and yeah I i agree with with
1:43:14the Wall Street guy like I think someone
1:43:16is gonna win clean house
1:43:18yes I get that there's a talent you you
1:43:21was gonna lose a lot of talent without
1:43:22value employees but at some point the
1:43:26service does what it does
1:43:27people like you and i love it like he
1:43:29needs or total reset it just needs to
1:43:31the total reset and I hope it survives
1:43:34the process but continue on this path is
1:43:36is I don't know doesn't lessen what is
1:43:39going on with the headcount of Instagram
1:43:41now that they're fully absorbed part of
1:43:44facebook but before facebook bought them
1:43:48instagram 30 people write it was like 12
1:43:51people until it got to the point where
1:43:52they needed and you know I think they
1:43:54might have had more ops people you know
1:43:56then then product people just because it
1:43:58was so popular but it was you could
1:44:01reasonably put them on a bus and drive
1:44:03mall to the airport together and forget
1:44:04you know
1:44:06offsite I mean it was it the right
1:44:07company would fit in a bus and was doing
1:44:11something of similar scale and nature
1:44:14and complexity is twitter i'm not saying
1:44:17Twitter should be 30 people at this
1:44:19point but it should be a lot closer to
1:44:2130 than where they are now and and I
1:44:23think part of it is an Instagram is is
1:44:26to me the comparison not facebook it
1:44:29it's now I'm not saying that Twitter
1:44:32should say that they're done and say
1:44:33okay we've done it you know but they're
1:44:35there
1:44:36they've been closer to done then then
1:44:39not done for a while like the whole
1:44:41point of twitter much like Instagram is
1:44:43that it's conceptually very simple
1:44:45that's that's the appeal and is actually
1:44:48part of the point of it that it's you
1:44:50pick who you want to follow you'll see
1:44:52what the people who you've chosen to
1:44:53follow post and then you can post and
1:44:56the people who've chosen to follow you
1:44:58will see what you've posted and that
1:45:00that basic that simplicity it sounds so
1:45:04simply well that doesn't even count but
1:45:06it's like no nobody never actually
1:45:07thought of that before
1:45:08there's a genius in in that but they
1:45:11really it's not the sort of thing where
1:45:13they need massive ongoing development
1:45:18yeah it's all it's almost like a UH is
1:45:21like twitter is a perfectly like the
1:45:23strategy for twitter has always been to
1:45:26they have a cost problem but they've
1:45:29always their goal has always been to
1:45:31grow out of that cost problem if that
1:45:33makes sense like they're gonna get big
1:45:35enough to get scale where the cost makes
1:45:37sense and that that is a it's a
1:45:40reasonable way of thinking that the way
1:45:41companies operate by the the the problem
1:45:44is that it's just not that big of a
1:45:45business like Twitter on Twitter makes a
1:45:47few billion dollars a year in revenue
1:45:48like it that should be enough to have a
1:45:50viable business given what it is i think
1:45:53parts gets into all the problems that
1:45:54Twitter had in management and all the
1:45:56problems they had it in their board and
1:45:58in the the fighting between at seven
1:46:00jack is they they ended the classes they
1:46:03probably took on too much venture money
1:46:05in the long run they do is build a
1:46:07business more quickly enough and they
1:46:08got to a state where they had a sort of
1:46:10bloated apparatus that the easiest and
1:46:15most obvious way was to what we can grow
1:46:17revenue big enough will
1:46:19outgrow our bloat it needs a reset like
1:46:21the the services what is obviously the
1:46:23the abuse problems are real it needs to
1:46:26be addressed but I think even there you
1:46:28have all these bad incentives going on
1:46:30like killing spam hurts don't the active
1:46:33user account right banning people
1:46:35perspective user glycan you have there's
1:46:39all these bad incentives in place for
1:46:41twitter as the public company as they
1:46:43are now and yeah I i really come around
1:46:46I think to this sort of like I get the
1:46:48talent issue i get that people are going
1:46:50to flee twitter if it's not Wall Street
1:46:52guy comes in and cleans house but it at
1:46:55i think we're to the point where it's
1:46:59like yes the surgery might kill the
1:47:00patient but without the surgery the
1:47:02patient is not going anywhere and you
1:47:04can't lose 500 million dollars a year
1:47:05forever Josh but they had a big drop-off
1:47:12who was it was just recently the stock
1:47:14got run up on the rumors that they might
1:47:16get acquired and then like yeah this was
1:47:20it yeah whatever
1:47:22yes else was the lead one but it really
1:47:24sounds like particularly where the
1:47:26week's came out they were kind of known
1:47:28Twitter channels so like Salesforce
1:47:31expressed interest in trying to drum up
1:47:33other interests and then everyone's like
1:47:35not interested in the stock crash back
1:47:37down
1:47:38yeah anyway I love Twitter I hope it
1:47:41works out but i do think that I guess
1:47:43I've come around on google I mean my
1:47:45antipathy towards google is just a
1:47:47general I'd in general I just don't like
1:47:51Google and I don't trust them with with
1:47:54data and I don't want I don't want my
1:47:56twitter account tied to a google ID and
1:47:58I don't you know I don't know what
1:48:00google would want to do in that regard
1:48:01if they were to 12 by him but on the
1:48:03other art hand if the right people at
1:48:05Google were in charge of it and they
1:48:06just saw it as well we've you know we've
1:48:08got this incredible resource of instant
1:48:11news of what everybody around the world
1:48:13is talking about it you know i could see
1:48:15them handling it well and Google you
1:48:17know has shown it you know history of
1:48:20like when they first monetize search
1:48:22results of you know not messing with
1:48:25what made it good in the first place
1:48:27yeah the only other one the other one
1:48:30interesting here's another example where
1:48:32where where Google a kind of consider
1:48:36themselves but is accompanied by
1:48:39bloomberg we're so do of course
1:48:43Bloomberg has a deal with twitter
1:48:44twitter gives them all their data for a
1:48:47price that's way too old for what it's
1:48:49worth but it if there was a queen of
1:48:52house and Twitter survived it and like
1:48:55the there's really valuable stuff and
1:48:57Twitter I I use Twitter a fair bit for
1:49:00uh if you want to find interesting like
1:49:03Sam write about a topic and i were
1:49:05really want to understand more about I
1:49:06want to get different points of view
1:49:07like yes I use nuzzle like personally
1:49:10that services stuff but it's a more
1:49:12obscure sort of thing like Twitter
1:49:14search is actually one of the best ways
1:49:16to uncover interesting off the beat sort
1:49:20of poster articles about about any
1:49:22particular topic like because just the
1:49:24just the the nature of the data is
1:49:27different than something like Google and
1:49:29it there's a lot of value there it i had
1:49:32it's not clear its value that's best
1:49:34monetized by advertising and this can go
1:49:37back to the very you know beginning back
1:49:39you know when the decisions were made
1:49:41about Twitter and how to monetize if
1:49:43Twitter came along later it would be
1:49:44interesting if you know didn't have
1:49:47obviously the executive upheaval but in
1:49:50a world where it's clear that Google and
1:49:52Facebook are going to really dominate
1:49:53advertising art online and had there
1:49:57been more creativity with twitter i mean
1:50:00it would well we we've said this a
1:50:03million times like they own like imagine
1:50:05someone owned the protocol behind email
1:50:07right away how valuable could that be
1:50:10like that's what twitter twitter had
1:50:14maybe still hasn't had the potential to
1:50:16own basically a messaging protocol for
1:50:19the internet and in part because of
1:50:22modernization concerns apart because
1:50:24just general ineptitude like I still
1:50:26can't believe that Twitter band links
1:50:28and direct messages for two years but
1:50:30they could have owned like a messaging
1:50:33protocol for the internet it but they
1:50:35didn't align up into the business model
1:50:37that that enable that they chose
1:50:39advertising the clothes other
1:50:40third-party stuff
1:50:42and it's a shame if it's one of the
1:50:44biggest like what could have been but I
1:50:46still think Twitter could have been a
1:50:49massive company but they would have had
1:50:51to have been very different choices made
1:50:53you know five six years ago
1:50:54yeah I let me take one last break here
1:50:58and thank our third and final sponsor to
1:51:02brand new sponsor i'm very excited about
1:51:04this company called away away makes
1:51:09first-class luggage at coach prices
1:51:12these high-quality materials just like
1:51:15other brands but offer much lower prices
1:51:17by $PERCENT and this is a recurring
1:51:19theme with podcast sponsors cutting out
1:51:22the middlemen and selling directly to
1:51:25you
1:51:25so they've got three sizes one of my
1:51:27favorite things with away is that's just
1:51:29what they do they've got added all the
1:51:31same quality and they've got three sizes
1:51:32the carrion guess what fits and carry on
1:51:35overhead been the medium and the large
1:51:37huh you ever go I i actually am in the
1:51:42market for a carry-on bag i've been
1:51:43using the same one for like 15 years and
1:51:45it literally is like ripped apart and
1:51:47stuff that I put in the one in the front
1:51:48pocket actually usually false and into
1:51:50the the main comparison probably he's
1:51:52not gonna do it doesn't fall out of the
1:51:54suitcase it falls from the little front
1:51:56zipper plaque thing into the main
1:51:58compartment but you go to like these
1:52:01other brands and and they've got like
1:52:03and you know they call it like the
1:52:05executive and the junior executive and
1:52:07the overnight executive and the cheat on
1:52:09his wife executive and it's all like 21
1:52:12inches three coffee I just spit it out
1:52:14it's like it's like the difference
1:52:15between them is that gives a 22 inches
1:52:17or 21 and a half inches or 21 and
1:52:19three-quarters inches hires 14 or 15
1:52:22inches wide who needs they've got three
1:52:25sizes the overhead one fits in at least
1:52:28here in the US fits in all of the
1:52:30overhead bins of all the airlines I've
1:52:32ever flown on which is all i need the
1:52:36suitcases are made with premium German
1:52:38poly carbonate unrivaled in strength and
1:52:41impact resistance and very lightweight
1:52:43it actually looks to me like they're
1:52:44three or four pounds lighter than a lot
1:52:46of other premium brands the interior
1:52:48features a patent-pending compression
1:52:50system useful for over Packers that's me
1:52:52because I like to just carry a carry-on
1:52:55instead of checking a bag for 360 degree
1:52:59spinner wheels guarantee smooth ride i
1:53:01will never buy a suitcase again that
1:53:03doesn't have for the four wheels never
1:53:05sometimes it really is so much more
1:53:07convenient to just push them along
1:53:08rather than pull them on two wheels they
1:53:10have a tsa approved combination lock
1:53:12built into the top of the bag removable
1:53:15washable laundry bag keep your dirty
1:53:17clothes separate from the clean they
1:53:18just give it to you it's right there in
1:53:20the bag and now here's the part where
1:53:22that is why they sponsoring the talk
1:53:24show is this is just a brilliant feature
1:53:28i love this
1:53:29it comes with a built-in 10,000 milliamp
1:53:34battery charger and you can take it out
1:53:37so you can charge it you can take it out
1:53:39of the suitcase and charge it somewhere
1:53:40else you have to have the suitcase at
1:53:42your desk to charge it or wherever
1:53:44you're going to charge it but then you
1:53:45charge this thing up you put it in a
1:53:46suitcase and then you've got USB ports
1:53:48right on top of the suitcase so while
1:53:50you're sitting there at like the waiting
1:53:52for your flight to board you you got a
1:53:55massive portable battery to charge
1:53:58anything that needs to be charged right
1:54:00there on top of the suitcase
1:54:02what a great idea lifetime warranty if
1:54:06anything baby and it's got a couple of
1:54:08ports you can have you know like one for
1:54:09you one for your significant other your
1:54:11kid or something like that or charge
1:54:12your iPhone and your iPad at the same
1:54:14time
1:54:14what a great idea I never go to the
1:54:17airport without a portable battery
1:54:18charger wouldn't be great not to have it
1:54:20in my pocket have a right build into the
1:54:22suitcase brilliant it's a suitcase for
1:54:24today's age lifetime warranty if
1:54:27anything breaks they'll fix it or
1:54:29replace it for life hundred day free
1:54:31trial live with it
1:54:32vibe with it travel with instagram it
1:54:35and if at any point decided not for you
1:54:37can return it for a full refund no
1:54:38questions asked hundred days so you get
1:54:41free shipping on anyway order within the
1:54:43continental United States sorry for
1:54:45everybody outside the continental United
1:54:47States you still buy one and like I said
1:54:51the carry-on size is compliant with all
1:54:53the major airlines really I this sounds
1:54:57like a great product i don't have one
1:54:59right now i'm going to buy one because i
1:55:00need new suitcase and
1:55:02that's the prices are significantly less
1:55:06than the ones i have had been looking at
1:55:07from other brands really really great
1:55:10stuff where do you go to find out more
1:55:14you go to a way travel.com / talk show
1:55:22that's the URL away travel.com / talk
1:55:26show and they'll know you came from the
1:55:28show go check them out if your need for
1:55:30a suitcase here's the prices the Karen's
1:55:32225 the medium is 275 and the largest
1:55:35295 so all three of them are under 300
1:55:38bucks this carrion i was looking at the
1:55:40other day from another company was like
1:55:42seven hundred dollars so this is a lot
1:55:44less good colors everything anything you
1:55:47can say about it
1:55:48so anyway go check them out away
1:55:49travel.com / talk show it just do a
1:55:53quick follow-up the it is bronte capital
1:55:55but the author is John Hampton it's not
1:55:58noticeable how do you spell Bronte and
1:55:59his bone BR 0 NT e capital and it's
1:56:03actually a blogspot site . blogspot com
1:56:05so euro and te yeah
1:56:09pron te capital C API tal . blogspot com
1:56:14all right and what's the author's name
1:56:15John Hampton Hampton alright there we go
1:56:18what else is on our agenda we're never
1:56:21going to get to all this are we
1:56:23I don't be which is too bad because
1:56:24they're both interesting so there's
1:56:25Syria must Walt Mossberg row 2 column
1:56:28and then at augmented review in which
1:56:30actually I'm why I liked about that we
1:56:33can go through all this we can do it
1:56:35I let's talk about the google pixel
1:56:37phones we I think we can do this one
1:56:39pretty quickly I ordered one I didn't
1:56:41know if you did
1:56:42yeah I did I haven't bought an android
1:56:45phone i think in two years and it was
1:56:46two years ago when I bought this moto x
1:56:48and I try to stay on top of it
1:56:50I regretted it the moment I got it this
1:56:52moto x is a piece of crap and I should
1:56:56have gotten a nexus and I regret that I
1:56:58just got out of the 6p last year I swore
1:57:02that I would never buy another android
1:57:03phone that wasn't a nexus and now
1:57:05they've just abandon the nexus name and
1:57:07you know taking more control over design
1:57:10and Colin pixels inside to me it's the
1:57:11only way to try and
1:57:13the phone I mean look at me by Samsung
1:57:15and the things going to say on fire but
1:57:18I have no interest in a samsung not
1:57:19because I don't think there is no I
1:57:21don't want to kick dirt on her mother on
1:57:24fire but the fire put dirt puts out
1:57:28fuckers i know for a fact from two
1:57:30minutes of dicking around with one in a
1:57:32cell phone store that I have no interest
1:57:33in buying one because of the shitty
1:57:35software that they put on top of Android
1:57:37i can tell i want to use the Android
1:57:39that comes from google you don't get it
1:57:40from Samsung you can't get it from them
1:57:42so i have no interest in it I have no
1:57:44idea why anybody who cares about this
1:57:46stuff whatever by the samsung phone so
1:57:48anyway I bought a pixel about the 5 inch
1:57:50model and black and I was so torn over
1:57:53whether to get the 32 gigabyte one or
1:57:57all the same here 128i I honestly
1:58:00despite to cost me three days and I've
1:58:03got further behind in the shipping q
1:58:05because I couldn't decide which one to
1:58:06buy because I thought I with my with the
1:58:10iphone I've always bought the largest
1:58:12capacity one there is even this year i
1:58:14got the 256 even though my my old phone
1:58:16was only it like I don't know like a
1:58:18hundred or so or 90 some had plenty of
1:58:21space i needed more than 64 but I was
1:58:23well under 128 and I probably would be
1:58:25for another year but I just don't even
1:58:27worry about if I want to shoot 4k video
1:58:29shoot 4k video and off to clear it off
1:58:32with the pixel I really am ninety-nine
1:58:36percent sure it's not going to become my
1:58:38daily phone just in case it does well or
1:58:41just in case i did thought that occurs
1:58:43to me is what if I'm testing it and like
1:58:45some something really fascinating a
1:58:47newsworthy happens and i want to start
1:58:49shooting 4k video you know I don't want
1:58:52to you know have it fill up so I got 12
1:58:57i got the same model that are
1:58:58degenerating 128 now I ended up and and
1:59:01I you know money two squirts through my
1:59:03hands my fingers like water but i ended
1:59:06up saving a hundred dollars this one
1:59:08time i bought the 32 gigabyte version
1:59:09idea a guide to get the 128 it is there
1:59:14to me this product is is absolutely
1:59:16fascinating and its continued it looks
1:59:20like at the 120 yeah I even went to the
1:59:22next day I even went to change my order
1:59:24and it was too late
1:59:25it's again that processing queue
1:59:27yes I would have had to cancel it and go
1:59:28to the end of the qtr that our i'll
1:59:30stick with it
1:59:31alright why are you fascinated by it so
1:59:35the most interesting thing is I'm gonna
1:59:37go back i have like i mentioned i have
1:59:39the Wits the 6p though the wily one from
1:59:42last year
1:59:42very nice phone I and i still find
1:59:45android android frustrating like it for
1:59:50me the like scrolling is like my the
1:59:53white well for me and android like I
1:59:55just it just it's like nails scratching
1:59:58on the chalk mark in
1:59:58on the chalk mark in
2:00:00rising up the wall ah but what's
2:00:03interesting is my 6p is not getting the
2:00:05google assistant so you go back to the
2:00:07way they opened up that presentation
2:00:09they didn't start out with the hardware
2:00:11they started out by talking about like
2:00:13the history of tax executives the PC era
2:00:15and then there was the Internet era and
2:00:17then there was the mobile area now we're
2:00:19in the era which I don't think I don't
2:00:21think I don't quite agree that i talked
2:00:23about that on an exponent on this last
2:00:26week but the point is it's all about
2:00:29Google assistant and then from there
2:00:31they went to the pixel phone so that was
2:00:34the framing for interesting the phone
2:00:35and they weren't selling a phone they
2:00:37were selling access to the google
2:00:39assistant what's so interesting is
2:00:41google assistant is not a part of
2:00:44Android it does not it's not going to be
2:00:46on the Nexus phones it's not on phone
2:00:49from third parties at all they can use
2:00:50their own since they wanted in samsung
2:00:52bot viv but another assistant and I've
2:00:56heard rumors that it might be available
2:00:59i'm not sure if it and I suspect not if
2:01:01it is all I will have thoughts about
2:01:04that because what's interesting is if
2:01:06that framing is right that they're
2:01:07moving to a new world of this assistant
2:01:10world then that sounds like a really
2:01:14good news from google right because the
2:01:16sort of this assistant stuff is right in
2:01:18their wheelhouse we can get into the
2:01:20quality assistant i think that i'm not
2:01:22sure LOL is a good representation of how
2:01:24good it may or may not be but at least
2:01:26like sort of theoretically it's easy to
2:01:29imagine that Google's assistant is going
2:01:31to be more capable than than the
2:01:34competition because that that's what
2:01:35they do
2:01:36alright i believe the problem the
2:01:38problem for google is assist this world
2:01:42is a great fit for them technologically
2:01:45and it's a horrible fit for them from a
2:01:48business model perspective because the
2:01:50way google makes money is they basically
2:01:52make their advertisers compete against
2:01:56each other and they compete to get in
2:01:58front of customers and then the customer
2:02:00chooses the winner based click on an ad
2:02:02they select and add and click on it and
2:02:04that's the one that gets that that that
2:02:05that that that pays money but it's a
2:02:08great insight and so let me let me let
2:02:09me see if you agree with this that the
2:02:11the main product that
2:02:13google for since its inception has
2:02:15served is a list of search results right
2:02:20you know and this is goes across all
2:02:22their products you know it mean in
2:02:23whatever they make from gmail I don't
2:02:25think it it's a drop in the bucket I
2:02:26think compared to search results and the
2:02:28product is you type in a little thing in
2:02:30this little box and hit return and
2:02:32Google about you know one-tenth
2:02:35two-tenths of a second later gives you a
2:02:37list of results and originally it was
2:02:39all just search results and their
2:02:42competitors were doing things like
2:02:44putting punch the monkey adds a top the
2:02:46page all this obnoxious stuff they were
2:02:49making no money on it and google said
2:02:51we're never going to show these banner
2:02:52ads and they never did they never went
2:02:54back on that and what they did is they
2:02:56found a way to say what we're going to
2:02:57do is it's actually home i would say
2:03:01it's almost like in the form of early
2:03:02form of native advertising and I know
2:03:04you've talked about absolutely right
2:03:05yeah it's we're just going to use one of
2:03:07the slots in the list we're just going
2:03:09to make slot 1 a paid result and we're
2:03:12going to try to make sure that even
2:03:14though it's a paid result that it's
2:03:15still somewhat relevant to the query
2:03:17because that'll work for everybody
2:03:20it'll work for you the person looking
2:03:21for a thing that will work for this the
2:03:23advertiser because they're only going to
2:03:26have that in front of people who are
2:03:28actually sort of looking for this and it
2:03:33is written here trade notes that and
2:03:36it'll work for us because this might
2:03:38actually be sustainable its side when I
2:03:41don't know it's in the rather just
2:03:42crashed at me I said she was screaming
2:03:44and you totally went off the rails
2:03:47I apologize for that says no to stop
2:03:49responding
2:03:50an error has prevented this application
2:03:52working properly that's because it's not
2:03:54an application it's a web page anyway
2:03:56it's a little list but there is no you
2:04:01know and in the same way you know and
2:04:02you've often been very complimentary
2:04:03about the daring fireball sponsorship
2:04:06model that you know it is of early form
2:04:08of native advertising where I serve up a
2:04:10bunch of short articles every week and i
2:04:14sell one of them to a sponsor who I hope
2:04:18is you know of interest to my audience
2:04:22and it just slips right in to the RSS
2:04:24feed just like all the other ones and
2:04:26it's clearly labeled as sponsored but
2:04:29it's not like some extra mius thing like
2:04:32an image on top of the thing right there
2:04:37is no internet there's no room for that
2:04:38in an interaction with a voice assistant
2:04:40you know I mean like if I say to my
2:04:43voice assistant hey dingus the book me
2:04:46on a flight to san francisco on $MONTH
2:04:47october 26th the dingus can't come back
2:04:52to me and say hey would you know would
2:04:55you like to you know yet no one wants to
2:04:58make selections like in this is that
2:05:00this is exactly at the like an assistant
2:05:02works if it gives you answers
2:05:05whereas Google's business model is
2:05:06predicated on giving you options and the
2:05:10and so in a world where you give answers
2:05:12not options their business model falls
2:05:14apart and people like all well people
2:05:15could there could be sponsored results
2:05:17and one most italian sounds terrible but
2:05:21to yes there are some scenarios where
2:05:23like Google could maybe charge an
2:05:25affiliate fee or something right like if
2:05:26you use opentable to book is a book me a
2:05:29table at X restaurant and Google use
2:05:31opentable and opentable pay school and
2:05:33affiliate fee that that light right
2:05:35investors easy but just you know
2:05:38listening to it sounds ridiculous one
2:05:40there's very few areas that will work
2:05:42but to affiliate fees are not very high
2:05:46relative to what companies pay for
2:05:48google ads because your flight example
2:05:50like what's the goal of kayak and and
2:05:55booking.com or or Expedia or all these
2:05:58sort of things they're not only looking
2:06:00to complete a purchase which they would
2:06:02pay an affiliate fee for if that was an
2:06:05option
2:06:05they're also looking to acquire a
2:06:07customer for the long run and so they're
2:06:09they're calculating the value of
2:06:11$OPERAND that add on a lifetime value
2:06:12sort of calculation which means their
2:06:15willingness to pay for an ad is much
2:06:17higher than it would be for pure
2:06:19affiliate model so didn't the net of it
2:06:22is is that in an assistant world
2:06:24Google's general business model doesn't
2:06:25work there might be winning ways they
2:06:27could make money but one that's not very
2:06:29many and to the amount they can charge
2:06:31for them is just not that much right
2:06:33imagine if you have a real personal
2:06:35assistant if you hired a person and you
2:06:37said you're a person you said your you
2:06:40said hey Sam get me a reservation at the
2:06:44house of prime rib wednesday at ten and
2:06:46then Sam said to you why don't I booked
2:06:48you a morton's instead and by the way I
2:06:50can pay my mortgage busy accounts
2:06:53suggest that you eat right you'd say
2:06:56you'd fire of you be like are you
2:06:58kidding me what are you doing coke do
2:07:00what I told you to do right exactly just
2:07:02as a dark
2:07:03no it doesn't google so this is a big
2:07:05problem for google and it's already a
2:07:07problem on mobile and you see like in
2:07:08mobile their stuff they've stuffed the
2:07:11page with now three ads and they did is
2:07:13funny is the last a year ago
2:07:15cool ghouls quarterly results like oh we
2:07:18have this huge explosion mobile revenue
2:07:20things are great did it up and what
2:07:22happened was they put a third having the
2:07:24page so that when you perform many life
2:07:28for high monetizing results
2:07:30you only saw ads on the first screen you
2:07:32to scroll down to get the results they
2:07:34basically a patient could model if you
2:07:36want to be sort of you mean about it and
2:07:39now so it's funny because the last
2:07:41google earnings call the CFO was trying
2:07:44like talk down the next quarter like
2:07:46what we're going to see it's a year
2:07:47since we made changes to the mobile
2:07:48experiences like oh what's gonna happen
2:07:51once you don't have the nice
2:07:52year-over-year comparison of like three
2:07:54ads vs. to any of the jump point is that
2:07:57their business model it doesn't
2:07:59translate as well as their technology
2:08:00does and so the whatsoever with the
2:08:04pixel and why I'm so fascinated by the
2:08:07fact that the assistant is only on the
2:08:09pixel is what is a way to make money
2:08:14well
2:08:15oh how does Apple make money Apple makes
2:08:17money because we want to use iOS we
2:08:20think iOS is is this . operating system
2:08:23well how do you get iOS there's only one
2:08:26way to get it has to buy a physical
2:08:28phone from Apple you can install it on
2:08:30the phone it's like that's the mac model
2:08:32brought to the phone right Apple has a
2:08:33monopoly on iOS for all intensive
2:08:35purposes it kind of sounds like and
2:08:39again we'll see how it turns on the long
2:08:40run and but it makes conceptual and
2:08:42strategic sense that Google's doing that
2:08:45with google assistant
2:08:46if we move to a world where assistance
2:08:49matter and if the google assistant is
2:08:51far and away the best assistant which i
2:08:53think is is it's reasonable there's a
2:08:55scenario where you could see that being
2:08:56the case just given the sort of company
2:08:58that google is what they're good at
2:09:00if you want google assistant how are you
2:09:02gonna get it you you're gonna buy a
2:09:05google phone that costs $MONEY and fifty
2:09:07dollars and over time if they get scale
2:09:09has a big profit margin or constant
2:09:11daily cost some amount of money where
2:09:13the amount of profit that they can turn
2:09:14on the phone is worth it for the
2:09:16expected lifetime that you'll be using
2:09:18the phone that they can just give you
2:09:19you know that they're there best
2:09:22assistant software quote-unquote for
2:09:24free
2:09:24totally and I i bet if assistant does
2:09:27end up on other phones
2:09:28it's probably did google very well may
2:09:31be charging for it right and and it it's
2:09:35so fascinating because you don't you
2:09:37rarely see companies like completely
2:09:39changing their business model but if
2:09:42it's because it's theoretically it makes
2:09:44so much sense like I can totally blew I
2:09:47i'm a bit general proponent of voice
2:09:49computing i think it's going to be a
2:09:50bigger deal than people think i'm not
2:09:52saying it's gonna like touch screens are
2:09:54going away phones are going away just
2:09:56like computers didn't go away but the
2:09:58fact that you can talk anywhere I mean
2:10:01putting aside the in the crowded subway
2:10:03i think we're gonna have like our
2:10:04assistant voices kinda like how never in
2:10:07ten years will know that we're looking
2:10:08at screens all the time but we do like I
2:10:10can see in 10 years people are kind of
2:10:11muttering all the time to wonder if I
2:10:14could ever get
2:10:14I don't know I'm just ripping somebody
2:10:17off but if I could ever get like
2:10:18groupers law it would be that anything
2:10:22that's anything computing that slow will
2:10:24eventually be fast
2:10:25yes and what it is Moore's law the
2:10:28that's the man that's who I'm rippin off
2:10:30I don't never heard never heard of it
2:10:32but i guess i'm hoping at all and you
2:10:36know it
2:10:36what were touch screens like 20 years
2:10:38ago 25 years ago they were terribly slow
2:10:41right there was you know it's eventually
2:10:43though they got super fast and voice
2:10:45computing is so much faster than it used
2:10:47to be but it still is slow
2:10:49I don't care who you think the best is
2:10:51whether you think it's a Alexo with an
2:10:54echo or Google or Siri or whatever
2:10:57I've never seen a single one of them
2:10:59answer a question is quick
2:11:00as a human being can write like if I'd
2:11:03asked you and you've been outside today
2:11:06what's the weather like outside you can
2:11:08answer me
2:11:09way faster than any of those things can
2:11:10right now there's a certain lengths
2:11:12latency to it and there's a certain even
2:11:14slowness to the way they read read back
2:11:17the answer that's that's so much faster
2:11:20if you have a you know if you're
2:11:22actually talking to a human but
2:11:23eventually voice interaction with
2:11:24computers will be as fast as we can
2:11:26perceive it will get faster than you
2:11:28know it'll it'll get so fast that they
2:11:30could go faster than we can even listen
2:11:32to them and at that point it will be so
2:11:34much more useful right and the other
2:11:36thing is i'm a big believer that the
2:11:39more pervasive of computing is the more
2:11:42will be used like there's lots of stuff
2:11:44that is better and more quote unquote
2:11:47efficient to do on a computer that we do
2:11:49in our phones now and I I'm a very heavy
2:11:51phone user guy I act i'm mainly only
2:11:53write on my computer I got the vast dry
2:11:55reading and research and everything is
2:11:57is on the phone and the it convenience
2:12:01always ends up trumping sort of like
2:12:03efficiency like if something's available
2:12:05we use it and the idea that like I think
2:12:09the air pods are such a are such a
2:12:11fascinating product because they point
2:12:13to this future right this idea that you
2:12:14can set the airport's up and now they're
2:12:16paired your watch and you can it's not
2:12:18here yet but you can see a future where
2:12:20you just always have their pods and
2:12:22watch with you
2:12:23whereas you might get your phone in your
2:12:25pocket might be a pain or be maybe don't
2:12:26have your phone with your or all those
2:12:28sorts of things again we're not there
2:12:31yet we're not close to there yet but you
2:12:32overtime convenience ends up trumping
2:12:36everything particularly to your point
2:12:38once Gruber's walk kicks in
2:12:40I you know it is internet I hadn't
2:12:43really thought about that I've
2:12:44definitely been thinking about the pixel
2:12:45as being almost like I've written about
2:12:47it that it's it's so utterly iphone like
2:12:51that it's not even to me it almost goes
2:12:54beyond shameful because they're not even
2:12:56there not even hiding it
2:12:58you know in terms of it it even has the
2:13:01exact same prices it's literally the
2:13:02same price for the same capacity you
2:13:06know it's you know obviously it's not a
2:13:09clone
2:13:10it's not meant to be indistinguishable
2:13:11but it especially from the front
2:13:13face it's so I phone like I mean the
2:13:17fact that the chin is completely
2:13:20symmetric with the forehead
2:13:23even though they don't even have a
2:13:24button down there yeah it aesthetically
2:13:27it's it it it is so iphone like it is
2:13:30ridiculous but i don't it to me it's
2:13:34it's not shameful in a way that like
2:13:36Samsung's copying was or HTC's copying
2:13:40has been its i would be embarrassed to
2:13:43put my name on it as a design but I kind
2:13:45of understand it and it's there's almost
2:13:46like a task it like with the with
2:13:49Samsung it's always there was always a
2:13:51sort of applewood never heard of them
2:13:53sort of aspect to the accusations that
2:13:56they copied whereas with google like in
2:13:57their initial PR for the pixel they they
2:14:01they mentioned the iphone and said yes
2:14:03we all we tried to make it different in
2:14:05certain ways but there's sort of an
2:14:07implicit yes these are you know this
2:14:11these phones are based on the world
2:14:12where the best phones are iphones and
2:14:14the phones the other people that were
2:14:16trying to sell two are currently using
2:14:18iPhones and I in its inch into what
2:14:23we've been talking about it extends all
2:14:25the way to the model like in this in
2:14:26this case Google and so it is an
2:14:28integrated model in integration in
2:14:30computing is not is not i think it's
2:14:32been constrained people only think about
2:14:35the OS and a software you can integrate
2:14:38anywhere in the value chain in this case
2:14:40Google is using like the android is is
2:14:43is your firewall off from the google
2:14:45voice thing I will see how much that
2:14:46actually is the case in practice but
2:14:48that actually makes sense that makes
2:14:49sense because what does android provide
2:14:52for for google it provides the ecosystem
2:14:54provides all the apps and apps our table
2:14:56stakes right and so keeping a standard
2:14:58Android that makes that you know in
2:15:01general the compatibility problem has
2:15:03gotten better for you know for android
2:15:05development in general and keeping that
2:15:06going is good you don't want it you
2:15:09don't want to differentiate it too much
2:15:10but that's okay because that's not what
2:15:12that's not what is selling the pixel
2:15:14phone it was selling the pixel phone is
2:15:16the assistant and so the integration
2:15:18that matters here is the integration of
2:15:20the assistant with the hardware where
2:15:22the assistant is the differentiating
2:15:24factor which is why you buy the hardware
2:15:25is how they make them
2:15:27me it looked in the problem is it makes
2:15:29tons of sense in theory the issue is
2:15:32that Google changing business is really
2:15:35hard
2:15:35google has shown no aptitude and being
2:15:38instant selling stuff and it's there's a
2:15:42lot of work that has to be done you have
2:15:44to set up distribution you have to do a
2:15:46lot of market just like Samsung spends
2:15:47like 400 million dollars in marketing a
2:15:50year or something like that they have
2:15:52connections with every single phone
2:15:53seller and in the world and carrier like
2:15:55that's all stuff that Google's going to
2:15:57have to build and it's not stuff that
2:15:59google has traditionally been very good
2:16:02head to say the least
2:16:03I need to google it's like the whole
2:16:04like we operate at scale and we don't
2:16:06need to get into the monkey details like
2:16:08they've had the fortune of being able to
2:16:10get their whole existence and whether
2:16:12they can pull that off is I think that's
2:16:15very fair to be skeptical about I don't
2:16:17know how
2:16:18what the what the upside is for pixel
2:16:20sales like wherewhere what's the good
2:16:22scenario what's the best-case scenario i
2:16:24don't think it's very big at least not
2:16:26not not this year year or two right i
2:16:29mean and again yeah you know who knows
2:16:32what could happen three four five years
2:16:33but a good start
2:16:35you know can get you there and there's
2:16:36sort of a you know like look at Tesla
2:16:39where i just linked to a thing today
2:16:41which really shocked me honestly that
2:16:43Tesla has sold more you know in that
2:16:46hundred-thousand-dollar range clasp
2:16:47hands more of them than BMW and Mercedes
2:16:50combined last year they sold more
2:16:52Tesla's then the mercedes s-class and
2:16:56BMW 7-series combined that's that's
2:16:59unbelievable to me I I can't believe
2:17:01that and part of that is just being in
2:17:02Philadelphia where Tesla is not have
2:17:05anywhere near as bigger presence is it
2:17:06surely does in the valley and maybe
2:17:08other places i see way more Mercedes S
2:17:11classes and BMW 7-series on a road that
2:17:14I do Tesla but i have no reason to doubt
2:17:16it but it's eye-opening it's it's a way
2:17:18to gain a foothold and and you know
2:17:20seven hundred dollar cell phones are
2:17:22clearly the cellphone equivalent of you
2:17:25know the s-class you know level of of
2:17:28car where you know around the world
2:17:30globally most people can't afford it and
2:17:33that's where android has their foothold
2:17:35is android completely dominates the only
2:17:38have a hundred dollars or two hundred
2:17:39dollars to spend on
2:17:40phone right well you get what is the the
2:17:43sorry about two things i would say is
2:17:46that also your friends or first thing I
2:17:50would say is one I don't think you'll be
2:17:52able to judge the pixel and this will be
2:17:54a challenge for google internally to
2:17:56remember this by its one-year to
2:17:58yourself because you just you can't
2:18:00impossible to come out the gate in cell
2:18:01like tens of millions of units and it
2:18:04and there's gonna be plenty of
2:18:05opportunities for Apple people to block
2:18:07the sales numbers say I apples that much
2:18:08in a week or whatever and that's gonna
2:18:09be totally valid but if Google is is
2:18:13serious about this being a genuine
2:18:15business where they actually do make
2:18:17money from hardware which again all
2:18:18indications are is it is you why would
2:18:22you make it exclusive if that's not the
2:18:23goal
2:18:24it takes years to build that sort of
2:18:26business and so this they would need to
2:18:29start now in 2016 to have a viable
2:18:32business in 20 19 or 20 20 and if you
2:18:34think about it that's probably when
2:18:36these assistants are gonna be getting
2:18:37really really good and so you again if
2:18:41they have the fortitude to pull this off
2:18:43you could see a world where in 2020
2:18:45google has this unbelievable assistant
2:18:48it's only available on their phones they
2:18:50have volume up
2:18:51they have all the connections carries up
2:18:53remember how long it took Apple to get
2:18:54every country in the world right how
2:18:56long to get every carrier expect
2:18:58especially you want to control the user
2:18:59experience like Google clearly wants to
2:19:01do it that takes years to build up and
2:19:05by starting now ideally once google
2:19:08assistant is good enough that it's
2:19:09actually a reason to buy then they will
2:19:13be placed to do it so it may add in that
2:19:15respect I think the timing does make
2:19:17sense again I just don't know google who
2:19:19has it in them to go through that
2:19:22multi-year slog of building the sort of
2:19:24business but there is certainly a
2:19:27theoretical reason why it makes a ton of
2:19:28sense I think I i really have a hunch
2:19:32that maybe that the pixels might be a
2:19:35miniature hit in the valley
2:19:38I almost feel like they're almost built
2:19:41for at least this year to be like a
2:19:44popular phone and in Silicon Valley in
2:19:46San Francisco because I for whatever
2:19:50reason i think google has
2:19:52and outsized presence on iphone users in
2:19:57that area
2:19:58I think there's an awful lot of people
2:20:00who have iphones but use a lot of google
2:20:04apps and like maybe use you know like
2:20:06the gmail app instead of apple mail and
2:20:08you know I don't know I don't know how
2:20:10many of music Chrome on iOS instead of
2:20:12safari which doesn't make a lot of sense
2:20:14to me because it doesn't even get to use
2:20:15its own rendering engine but and I've
2:20:18seen articles along that line and I see
2:20:20it and press events when I go there and
2:20:22I see a lot of the people I know and
2:20:24friends I have who are bless Apple
2:20:27centric and more cover the whole
2:20:28industry almost the most common scenario
2:20:32i see with them at the cell phone is
2:20:34that they use an iphone and when i get a
2:20:35look at what they use or if I see there
2:20:37you know docker you know the homescreen
2:20:39the first home screen an awful lot of
2:20:41them use google apps on their iPhone and
2:20:47I have a half-written piece I haven't
2:20:48even finished yet but Lauren good at the
2:20:51verge had an article this week about how
2:20:54I message is the glue that keeps her on
2:20:56keeps are using an iphone instead of
2:20:57switching to an android phone and
2:21:01underlying premise of it is that there's
2:21:03nothing else on iOS that keeps people
2:21:05tied to it which i completely disagree
2:21:07with but it also reminds me of me see if
2:21:11I have it on my clipboard an article
2:21:13from last year by guile at nope not my
2:21:16clipboard BuzzFeed who wrote an article
2:21:22his name's Charlie Worzel that was more
2:21:29or less like hey everybody i know hide
2:21:31all that built-in apple apps in folders
2:21:33and stuff like that and replaces them
2:21:34with with Google Apps what is one of the
2:21:40names that you used for the folders
2:21:41where you hide all of your Apple apps
2:21:44and it's bunch of screenshots of stuff
2:21:47like crapple and junk and stuff i don't
2:21:50use and i use the is the Apple emoji
2:21:53that's pretty good
2:21:55I'd I don't I think they're sort of in a
2:21:59bubble where I think most people use the
2:22:01default i think it and I nothing better
2:22:03exemplifies it then the popularity of
2:22:05Apple maps right that by far and away
2:22:06the most popular map app on iOS is Apple
2:22:09maps and like I was on Josh Topolsky
2:22:11show like a better are not real recently
2:22:14but sometime within the last year and he
2:22:16liked couldn't believe that I use Apple
2:22:18maps and for me where I live
2:22:20you know I know you and I have spoken
2:22:21about this that you go around the world
2:22:22and is very different but here where I
2:22:24live
2:22:25it's really great and the only thing I
2:22:27used to use google maps for was
2:22:28translated and now Apple maps has
2:22:30transit in the cities i go to so it it's
2:22:33good for me but I can see why normal
2:22:35people i mean it for me it's an informed
2:22:37decision when I compare it to google
2:22:38maps and I just don't like the interface
2:22:40of google maps but for most people the
2:22:44defaults are good enough right
2:22:46I'm but in the valley where people
2:22:48really want to use these google apps but
2:22:50they want a really good phone I could
2:22:52see the pixel really taking off and I
2:22:54can kind of see how that might then
2:22:55therefore lead to the good coverage
2:23:00right if it becomes a thing where half
2:23:02the people you know who are your peers
2:23:04in san francisco and the valley are
2:23:07using maybe have too high but you know
2:23:09if a big chunk of them are using pixel
2:23:10phones it inflates the coverage as to
2:23:13how popular it is going to be or how
2:23:15popular it is maybe I mean and it's
2:23:18certainly google could ask for i know
2:23:20the real company that's threatened by
2:23:21this samsung because I mean there's
2:23:23there's been two per real premium phone
2:23:25sellers Apple and Samsung have always
2:23:27done very well in China but general
2:23:29those are the two most the world and
2:23:31pixels gonna peel off i think a samsung
2:23:35users before they do iphone users
2:23:38your Valley exception might be true i
2:23:39definitely think the I message . is a
2:23:42huge one I've written this previously
2:23:44and one thing that people have
2:23:45complained about is to say they were
2:23:46cat-like evaluation of i-10 sent to as
2:23:49we chat or they look at wine once IPO or
2:23:51whatever they say all apple one of the
2:23:53reasons that Apple stock is tools
2:23:55because it doesn't properly account for
2:23:56the value of my message and I actually
2:23:58think I think that's silly
2:24:01and the reason is the iMessage value is
2:24:05accounted for in the value of the iphone
2:24:08because the I absolutely but this is a
2:24:11classic example of apples sort of
2:24:13vertical strategy where I message help
2:24:17sell more I
2:24:18phones and uptake I message
2:24:19cross-platform to make it like these
2:24:21other messaging services
2:24:23yes that might make I message
2:24:25quote-unquote more valuable because
2:24:26Apple could theoretically monetize it
2:24:28but that would be offset by the
2:24:30reduction in the value of the iphone
2:24:34because that it's no wonder exclusive
2:24:36the iphone and I like when I broke my
2:24:39arm last year in I wanted to switch to
2:24:42android because the voice dictation is
2:24:45it's it's unbelievably better like a
2:24:47completely different universe i actually
2:24:49i have google in my in my doc on my
2:24:52iPhone because the voice search just
2:24:54works it incredibly well even though
2:24:57like I find the actual Google Apps super
2:24:59annoying to use I'd rather it be in
2:25:01safari but what if I'm on the go
2:25:03like it just works really well the
2:25:05problem is one the whole scrolling
2:25:06present the wall but to I messages a
2:25:08problem like it I for folks like you and
2:25:11in general people that I've connected
2:25:13with intact if I don't talk to them via
2:25:15DM it's almost all via I message and it
2:25:18its it's very valuable in it so it's a
2:25:20real advantage for apple
2:25:22yeah and I think it's no coincidence
2:25:23that the only real software for android
2:25:25that google is really talked about this
2:25:27year is a low and duo the replacements
2:25:30for I you know their their answers to I
2:25:32message and facetime that I think that
2:25:35they're kind of stuck in that regard
2:25:36though because i don't think i don't
2:25:40think it's going to solve the problem of
2:25:41getting people to switch like if I mean
2:25:44people already got everybody they know
2:25:46on their family on facetime they're not
2:25:47going to get anybody to install duo
2:25:50yep know the the number one feature of
2:25:52any messaging app has nothing with
2:25:54interfaces nothing stickers all the
2:25:56stuff as much as I may love them the
2:25:57number one feature of any messaging app
2:25:59is do your friends and family use it
2:26:01like nothing else matters outside of
2:26:04that and and yeah it is the of course in
2:26:07like Asia or whatever it
2:26:09imessage isn't a walk-in for Apple
2:26:11because everyone uses some some other
2:26:13app but in the u.s. in particular it it
2:26:17definitely is definitely is a big
2:26:18advantage for them
2:26:19yeah so i'll write more about that soon
2:26:22anyway let's move on
2:26:24it's partly this right into talking
2:26:26don't talk about Cirie I feel like
2:26:28that's too long of it
2:26:30think yeah if you can what I guess I
2:26:32would tie it to what we talked about the
2:26:34pixel phone and someone that I wrote a
2:26:36my articles about this last last week
2:26:39Google and the limits of strategies what
2:26:41it's called but someone did a great job
2:26:43they basically summarized the entire
2:26:45article and tweet which I don't know
2:26:47that speaks well of me all of them are
2:26:50poorly of me but basically said the the
2:26:53problem for the future is that Apple has
2:26:56the right business model but the bad
2:26:58technology google has the good
2:26:59technology for the bad business model
2:27:01and that's oversimplifying it has
2:27:03dissipated by tweet but i think that
2:27:05gets that it I mean I've we've talked
2:27:07about a ton about the fundamental
2:27:11problems Apple has with Syria whether
2:27:15that be just really the the my course is
2:27:19coursing and it is hard to quantify and
2:27:21so but we've talked about it like
2:27:22building a phone that is as polished and
2:27:27and usable by millions of people and is
2:27:31so great like Apple does the mindset and
2:27:35approaches and everything about an
2:27:37organization in the sort of people that
2:27:38want to work there all that sort of
2:27:39stuff is very very different from
2:27:41building an iterative web service that
2:27:42is self learning and self-improving like
2:27:45just the entire way accompany structured
2:27:48was valued the sort of people want to
2:27:49work there all these sort of factors go
2:27:51in different directions if you're good
2:27:52at this sort of stuff that makes very
2:27:54good would you rather work at Google
2:27:55Drive the record serie you rather work
2:27:57at Google and your everything about the
2:27:59company is going to support you in doing
2:28:00that if you want to build beautiful
2:28:02hardware and finished products and and
2:28:06an operating system that's fully tied
2:28:07into it is this this this this jewel
2:28:10would you rather work at Google and
2:28:11build a pixel phone jailbroken apple and
2:28:13and build an iphone and that's a very
2:28:15depths at an individual level but all
2:28:18that stuff goes into the whole
2:28:20organization and so people always
2:28:22because I talk about Apple services a
2:28:23lot Indianapolis particular just get
2:28:25really annoyed at me all the time in
2:28:27which is unfortunate because when I am
2:28:30criticizing apples culture and
2:28:34organizational structure and way of
2:28:36thinking in the context of services that
2:28:38is the exact same thing as complementing
2:28:41apple in their ability to create
2:28:43amazing products like they are one in
2:28:45the same thing i'm not saying Apple is
2:28:47incompetent i'm not saying they're bad
2:28:49i'm saying by virtue of optimizing for
2:28:51one there's a trade-off and same thing
2:28:53for google by virtue of optimizing for a
2:28:56services iterative approach there's a
2:28:59trade-off on the other side use the
2:29:00Amazons the most extreme that what
2:29:02Amazon is the most modular most like
2:29:05iterative all their teams are expected
2:29:07not even talk to each other right no
2:29:08integration at all they're also standard
2:29:10interfaces that interact from inside the
2:29:12company always out and that's where they
2:29:13can build something amazon web services
2:29:15that is super scalable super modular all
2:29:17the sort of stuff
2:29:18what happens when a company that tries
2:29:19to build a phone it's the biggest piece
2:29:21of fucking shit I've ever used in my
2:29:22life like it in that doesn't make
2:29:25amazon's dumb it means there by
2:29:27optimizing so strongly for one approach
2:29:29it makes them brilliant in the areas
2:29:32where that approach fits and it makes
2:29:33them terrible the other areas and that
2:29:35terrible that terribleness is a sign of
2:29:37strength so the worst is being mediocre
2:29:38it's just stuck in the middle that we
2:29:41have to go quick but my observation so
2:29:43this whole thing I kicked off by well in
2:29:44my opinion a great wall mossberg column
2:29:47I mean truly really great which was
2:29:49headline y de série it seemed so dumb
2:29:52and I thought it was very fair in in
2:29:56evaluating the current state of Siri and
2:29:58expressing a sort of exasperation that
2:30:01look
2:30:01serie de beauté five years ago
2:30:02literally like five years to the month
2:30:04and it just doesn't seem five years
2:30:06better as it seems like it should be
2:30:07better and some of these things that
2:30:09don't work should work and it's
2:30:13confounding when the same thing works on
2:30:16your iPhone but doesn't work on your
2:30:18iPad you know he was talking about like
2:30:20he does something about Tim Cook and
2:30:22he's got Tim Cook's contact card a nice
2:30:24name-drop wall but on is one device it
2:30:29knows that Tim Cook is one of his
2:30:31contacts and knows how to contact him
2:30:33and on the other one it just gives them
2:30:34like the wikipedia page for tim cook
2:30:36because it thinks you're talking about
2:30:38him is like a celebrity but why in the
2:30:40world wouldn't that work the same way
2:30:41it's andrew and how do you how do you
2:30:43deal bug that as a user you can't
2:30:45because it's a black box and it's very
2:30:47frustrating and then my little response
2:30:49to it was just about the frustration
2:30:51that they still can't do multistage
2:30:53answers and it was a legitimate thing I
2:30:55wanted to do I'm a political junkie I
2:30:56don't want to miss
2:30:57the next presidential debate so I asked
2:30:59when the next presidential debate I got
2:31:01the answer and then I said can add that
2:31:03to my calendar and there's and Cirie
2:31:05cannot do that it can't even maintain
2:31:07that level of of multi-step stage
2:31:11answers and to me five years in it seems
2:31:14to me like that's something that ought
2:31:15to be able to do and it in my other
2:31:19league with the brother with the
2:31:20presidential debate is it shows it now
2:31:23but that was because the first
2:31:24presidential debate series didn't know
2:31:25at all and it was a big thing on Twitter
2:31:27where people were pointing out that
2:31:28every assistance can tell you in the
2:31:30presidential debate is but Siri couldn't
2:31:32i think the actually Apple manually
2:31:33added the head in response to the upper
2:31:36my other . in my article was that the
2:31:41big problem Apple faces two big fans one
2:31:44is just making serie better but two is
2:31:46even if they succeed and make it better
2:31:48i think that there's a huge problem with
2:31:50so many people have been burned by
2:31:51trying Syria and feeling like a fool
2:31:53because it doesn't work that they won't
2:31:55even notice and and I i notice it one
2:31:58area where Twitter or where serie they
2:32:01call it a series feature but the just
2:32:03voice dictation just if you hit the
2:32:05little microphone and dictate what
2:32:06you're trying to say into the text field
2:32:09it works so much better than it used to
2:32:12and it's so super useful to me as a
2:32:14pedestrian in a city i dictate text all
2:32:16the time and it's it's I don't know what
2:32:19the accuracy rate is but it's in the
2:32:20high nineties and it's not perfect and i
2:32:23can still improve it but it's way way
2:32:25useful super useful and I know a lot of
2:32:28people who never even use it because
2:32:29they tried it two or three years ago and
2:32:31it was so bad that they've never gone
2:32:32back to it and I think that that's true
2:32:34serie wide here's the thing I've noticed
2:32:37in the response to my article in the
2:32:40response to my article especially on
2:32:41twitter but it's so many people who are
2:32:43like finally you know you know an
2:32:46article acknowledging that series
2:32:47complete dogshit you know it's fine you
2:32:49know series completely useless and in a
2:32:51link to my article that's not what i
2:32:53wrote i didn't say it's completely
2:32:54useless i'm i'm disappointed in this
2:32:57data series but i'm not saying that but
2:32:58people are so angry at Cirie and I think
2:33:02it's because this is my theory that the
2:33:05whole reason that people become
2:33:08Apple users and the iphone is so popular
2:33:11that the iPhone clearly selling the
2:33:13people who really aren't really like
2:33:14fans of Apple but people who read daring
2:33:17fireball and have apple devices are what
2:33:20i would consider apples core audience
2:33:22people who want to pay a little extra
2:33:24money to get really good products and
2:33:27because they really care about getting
2:33:29good products and they're not
2:33:30price-sensitive when part of the
2:33:32experience is definitely not premium it
2:33:35infuriates him
2:33:37well it is the other thing is I think
2:33:39Syria itself is infuriating a and I
2:33:42despise like series like cute eNOS so it
2:33:46I post this on on Twitter last month
2:33:48this example so i invisible
2:33:50I this word for word exactly what
2:33:52happened so I'm going to quote Ben Casey
2:33:55might need to set my lineup tomorrow 10
2:33:57am-4 fantasy football digital for
2:33:58serious turn on my thought is concerned
2:34:00for her let you guys hating si si digo
2:34:02sorry hating just remember to set my
2:34:04lineup tomorrow at 10am then then dingus
2:34:07says okay i'll remind you that I say
2:34:09make that a weekly reminder like the
2:34:11classic like the next thing and then in
2:34:13Syria says okay here's a weekly reminder
2:34:16and made a new reminder for me on
2:34:17tuesday $MONTH $DAY at 9am like it's a
2:34:19totally random time that was good right
2:34:21and then I go and then I say delete that
2:34:23reminder is then then says okay i've
2:34:26deleted it make sure you don't forget it
2:34:28like that it's like like it's one thing
2:34:31to fail right but then you delivering on
2:34:34of the cutesy names and marks just is
2:34:37infuriating and I get what I think is
2:34:40the problem is it really puts it in like
2:34:42the uncanny valley like the sort of
2:34:44movie term attrition around animation
2:34:45where you know like the original Pixar
2:34:48movie all pixar movies but particularly
2:34:50when they started they made the humans
2:34:52very non-human like because like poor
2:34:56expresses kind of the classic example of
2:34:58this if you if you make it very
2:35:00human-like but it's not quite right
2:35:02there's something in our brains that are
2:35:03repulsed by it and it is called the
2:35:05uncanny valley right if you need to be
2:35:07all the way to the good side and the
2:35:08problem is i did and i think apple took
2:35:11the wrong approach from the beginning by
2:35:12making it at this sort of assistance or
2:35:15thing I think it's my google that's one
2:35:16reason google calls their assistant
2:35:18google they don't call it it's more
2:35:20robot like its it because there there's
2:35:23an aspect here we're like remember we
2:35:26talked about documents and documents
2:35:27just disappear and we just got mad
2:35:29ourselves for forgetting to save like in
2:35:32retrospect that's terrible but from a
2:35:34product perspective there's something to
2:35:37be said for people blaming themselves
2:35:38instead of blaming the product or at
2:35:40least having a little empathy for like a
2:35:42serious screw this is a hard request to
2:35:44be fair I did the multi-step request and
2:35:47Cirie can't do that i should have known
2:35:48better but had surgery failed I'd be
2:35:51like oh . buy yourself some time with
2:35:53except sometimes when Siri can accept
2:35:55sometimes it can write which is which is
2:35:58fair but it's like II there's no
2:36:00acceptance of like serious limitations
2:36:02within the way that series presented
2:36:04series comes across and presents itself
2:36:06as this is something that's way more
2:36:08capable than it actually is it way over
2:36:10cells capabilities in part by this being
2:36:13cutesy and having these jokes and stuff
2:36:15like that and that's just not the
2:36:16reality of of what it is and I think
2:36:19that exacerbates it like there is no
2:36:22feature on any computer voice i use that
2:36:24like literally indirectly enrages me
2:36:26except for a series does and it's always
2:36:30these cutie things when it's totally
2:36:31screwed up like it just fail like just
2:36:34like but that's I don't know just the
2:36:36did it anyhow I the advertiser i think i
2:36:39might have given you this ramp before
2:36:41but it is one of my biggest rants about
2:36:43apple products is the the the failure to
2:36:46fail gracefully
2:36:47alright we were way over time that's but
2:36:49you do want to talk about arv are you
2:36:52definitely do but you only i'm going to
2:36:53give that to you and I'm gonna give me
2:36:54two minutes
2:36:56I just thought I thought it was intense
2:36:57i actually wrote this yesterday and then
2:36:59template today in Tokyo something about
2:37:01you know apples Marcia and augmented
2:37:04reality than virtual reality because you
2:37:06know it's part of being a being in the
2:37:09real world which is something I've
2:37:11always generally I i agree without I've
2:37:13always viewed earth is kinda there's two
2:37:15types of computing there's an immersive
2:37:17computing like video games and movies
2:37:18and stuff like that and there's like
2:37:19accompanying community that there's a
2:37:22better word for it like that like your
2:37:23phone it's with you everywhere it's the
2:37:25stuff that goes with you makes it makes
2:37:26your your life better and versus one is
2:37:29like an escape from life and to me
2:37:31that's always been the division
2:37:32between virtual reality augmented
2:37:34reality and it was so interesting in
2:37:37noon i always go back with my favorite
2:37:39was the best Steve Jobs quote there's a
2:37:40lot of modestly but the computers a
2:37:42bicycle for the mind right that is that
2:37:45is very much in this augmented sort of
2:37:48approach where you get the goal the goal
2:37:52of a computer and this is something
2:37:53that's very thin quarter apple is to
2:37:56make you better to enhance the
2:37:59experience to make you more productive
2:38:01and I think that's one of the reasons
2:38:02why apple's never really had the gaming
2:38:04gene in them they've never really been
2:38:05about escapism obviously the iphones
2:38:08become dominant gaming but that's almost
2:38:11like an accident of history the apples
2:38:14think he's always been this direction
2:38:16and the reason I wrote about this
2:38:17yesterday i wrote about that quote when
2:38:19facebook bought oculus a year-and-a-half
2:38:21ago or two and a half years ago whatever
2:38:22it was and the there was just the oculus
2:38:25keynote last week and in the keynote I
2:38:28just found it really disquieting because
2:38:30Mark Zuckerberg went on this this big
2:38:33thing about i'm an engineer want to make
2:38:35the world better believe make everything
2:38:36better but he's talking about these
2:38:38immersive VR experiences in it it felt
2:38:42like in attempted it going to create a
2:38:46new reality because the current one
2:38:47isn't great and will be leaving aside
2:38:49the fact that the current one isn't
2:38:50great
2:38:51arguably because facebook is so busy
2:38:53creating everyone's individual reality
2:38:55that once we're all in the same place we
2:38:57have like it all kind of explodes it's
2:39:00just such a fundamentally different way
2:39:02of thinking about computing than the
2:39:04apple one and it's gonna be fascinating
2:39:07to see how that plays out of course
2:39:09there's like we're going to go from vr2
2:39:10AR but it's just it's a different way of
2:39:14thinking about computers thinking about
2:39:16computing the way the world works
2:39:18I for one and certainly on the Apple
2:39:20approach but it's going to be
2:39:24fascinating to see how it actually plays
2:39:25out over the next several years you made
2:39:27my point exactly which is that of course
2:39:29apples more interested in they are
2:39:31pretty versus vr because it's the same
2:39:33reason that they've never been a
2:39:34powerhouse in gaming exactly MVR is
2:39:36obviously a great going to be it's
2:39:40already at playstation vr shipping it's
2:39:42you know it's going to be a big deal for
2:39:44getting sitting at my sitting at my
2:39:45house and
2:39:46wisconsin actually isn't really wow yeah
2:39:48just got delivered yesterday might be
2:39:50coming down the chimney at Christmas
2:39:51here helpful
2:39:53Jonas better not listen to the podcast I
2:39:55we definitely doesn't listen to the
2:39:57podcast so well he doesn't believe in
2:39:58Santa so it's you know it's already in
2:40:02negotiation he's going out all over the
2:40:03place yeah
2:40:04ah you know and there might be other
2:40:07applications for it as well but gaming
2:40:08is obvious it's not i don't even think
2:40:10it's a question that it's going to be a
2:40:11factor in gaming and forth
2:40:13um JR is much more of an apple-like
2:40:17technology i find it interesting that
2:40:18Tim Cook is opening his mouth about it
2:40:20though it's a very on the Apple like
2:40:22thing to comment on it in general you
2:40:24know but Tim Cook's always been a little
2:40:25bit more open about Steve Jobs about
2:40:27stuff like that like that whole thing
2:40:28we're at the one conference the wall
2:40:31mossberg Kara Swisher conference where
2:40:32he said that the wrist is an interesting
2:40:34opportunity on wearables right yeah like
2:40:37two years
2:40:38everybody was no Steve Jobs is
2:40:40ridiculing video on on on iphones
2:40:42exactly right products already exists
2:40:45right Steve Jobs would have been like
2:40:47nobody wears watches anymore like up
2:40:50till two days before they announced that
2:40:51he was actually it was a sad watching
2:40:53the stupidest thing I've ever nobody
2:40:55wears a watch anymore
2:40:57ok the other thing is interesting it
2:40:58will we don't have time to talk about it
2:41:00but I think the snapchat spectacles are
2:41:02absolutely fascinating one of the most
2:41:03interesting new product seen in awhile
2:41:05is that the snapchat thing you wanted to
2:41:06talk about
2:41:07yeah yeah yeah the reason the other
2:41:09reason it's so interesting is with one
2:41:11of the many what reasons why google
2:41:13glass went wrong is there was like it
2:41:17was like a novelty item right like that
2:41:19yes this is like what why would you wear
2:41:21them so they packed is like the Apple
2:41:23watch in some respects they packed on a
2:41:24video camera and speaker and all the
2:41:26sorts of stuff and it's like ways then
2:41:28what's the point there was a store on
2:41:29Android but it wasn't really connected
2:41:31to your phone it was an integrated is
2:41:33just did this contraption for a lot of
2:41:35money put your head and then what you
2:41:36like immediate what's so fascinating
2:41:39about them getting it good didn't even
2:41:41get a good AR display we have no idea
2:41:44the whole thing was terrible it was it
2:41:46was it's not that in in ever so the
2:41:49spectrum are like all googoo glasses it
2:41:50was a terrible idea why is it better
2:41:52well the reason to do better is if
2:41:54there's an obvious use case like you are
2:41:57snapchat already exists
2:41:59you already have people following you
2:42:00already have the stores already have the
2:42:01memories thing where this video can go
2:42:04you already have this idea of 10 second
2:42:05video and this is just an easier way to
2:42:07do it and it's like they created the
2:42:09need for this product and now this
2:42:11product is coming in to fill the need
2:42:13again need may be overstating it but
2:42:15there's an obvious place where these fit
2:42:18and that's such a powerful thing when it
2:42:21comes to creating sort of a new category
2:42:23but then once you have them on your once
2:42:27you own them once they're there then you
2:42:30can start building out all the other
2:42:31stuff i can do the display stuff into
2:42:33this beer stuff in thanks to groupers
2:42:35lot that's going to get more and more
2:42:37viable overtime and it's just it's
2:42:40really fascinating is the hardest thing
2:42:41is like why do you wear the watch
2:42:44why do you wear the at the airport's the
2:42:45airports are more like the spectacles in
2:42:47this why do you wear their pods
2:42:48well the iphone 7 doesn't have a
2:42:50headphone jack anymore in their union
2:42:52wireless headphones like the reality is
2:42:54the potential the airport is amazing
2:42:56like we're getting two computers in your
2:42:58ears and that like that the potential
2:43:00that's unbelievable for all the things
2:43:02we talked about but you have to you have
2:43:04to you choose a turn like cross the
2:43:06chasm whatever reason for them to exist
2:43:09and there's an obvious reason for parts
2:43:10to exist and now they have the foothold
2:43:12they can expand that same thing with
2:43:13spectacles when it comes to the
2:43:15augmented reality like at it that would
2:43:18arguably be one of apples biggest
2:43:20competitors in the very one because they
2:43:23have a way to get on your face and
2:43:24that's the hardest challenge for any
2:43:26sort of wearable i will just add the
2:43:27groomers why isn't just more slot
2:43:29because some aspects of things that have
2:43:31were slowing I've gotten faster don't
2:43:33really have to do anything to do with
2:43:34getting more transistors on to a cpu and
2:43:38I dvi-i giving you a hard time I know
2:43:40but I just want to defend myself that
2:43:42it's anything you can think of this
2:43:43little like wireless networking wireless
2:43:45networking got a lot faster
2:43:46you know I had nothing to say I don't
2:43:49really think thats related to more slots
2:43:51it's just a general you know it's even
2:43:53more and more obvious
2:43:55ya know anything I know the guy i had i
2:43:58think the thing about snapshot that the
2:44:00glasses there whatever they call them
2:44:02the goggles whatever the hell they are
2:44:03it's like it's an honest it's an honest
2:44:05product and they clearly have a very I
2:44:08don't want him I don't even I don't
2:44:10really understand snapchat I don't want
2:44:11him but at least it it to me is a very
2:44:14honest product meaning it's whoever
2:44:16designed it and whoever spitting it gets
2:44:19it
2:44:19where is the thing with google glass
2:44:21that made it such a joke is that it was
2:44:22so pretentious and they thought it was
2:44:24so goddamn serious and it was like this
2:44:27technology for technology's sake it was
2:44:29such an emperor has no clothes situation
2:44:31where it's like you've got to be kidding
2:44:33me that thing is is a joke and you're
2:44:35treating it like it's the next big step
2:44:37our first step in it you know a new
2:44:39direction whereas the snapchat think
2:44:42they're just what they're saying about
2:44:43it seems to me exactly what it is you
2:44:45know they're describing it as a toy it's
2:44:47fun it's not supposed to be serious this
2:44:49isn't you know it's just the thing to
2:44:51have fun with and that's exactly what it
2:44:53looks like and it's exactly how its
2:44:55price doesn't like a hundred bucks or
2:44:56something like that
2:44:57yeah hundred thirty i think and i didn't
2:44:59and that's the best way to watch a new
2:45:02categories as a toy like it in the
2:45:05iphone what was the ridicule of the
2:45:07iphone from mike the from microsoft and
2:45:09rim
2:45:10oh it's it but it's nice but when people
2:45:12want to actually do work right you're
2:45:14going to use our products and yeah it's
2:45:17it's so I I it is a compelling space
2:45:20I yeah you're right apples for this
2:45:22about is interesting uh but it's
2:45:25something only one that's gonna be very
2:45:26fun to watch
2:45:28I don't get his true i don't get why
2:45:29he's opening his mouth out about it but
2:45:31you know work for watching I guess I
2:45:34don't know
2:45:34yeah I mean there's brought i think that
2:45:37there's no the there's the IRA mejor
2:45:40stock issues are stocks stock price
2:45:43incineration zits all to have the new
2:45:45shiny out there
2:45:46yes is beneficial arm i don't know i
2:45:49guess maybe they resigned himself that
2:45:51anything hard world is going to week
2:45:52anyway so my thought was maybe you know
2:45:54if it's true that the car thing is
2:45:56really downsized or set backers
2:45:58something like that it's well we need to
2:46:02plan B can be if they are now of course
2:46:04apples looking and they are huh
2:46:08I don't have anything else that's the
2:46:10bottom of my copious notes maybe these
2:46:11that keeping these notes is to is is a
2:46:14problem because that would show Randall
2:46:16no I think I think we have like multiple
2:46:19digressions and general manager and
2:46:21talked for the first like two hours and
2:46:23then like 35 minutes we covered like
2:46:25multiple shows with the material my god
2:46:27we did it for us we didn't even get to
2:46:28the fact that my beloved dallas cowboys
2:46:30are playing your beloved green bay
2:46:32packers this weekend it in the Lambo
2:46:35right at lambeau field that's a game
2:46:37yes I the the house of dez bryant
2:46:40horrors I think he will be back
2:46:41I think he's gonna be back i think he is
2:46:43set to be back I and i think the the I
2:46:46think vegas has the line at Green Bay by
2:46:48four so here's the question if if tony
2:46:51romo comes back
2:46:52who do you want to be the starting
2:46:53quarterback I want tony romo to be back
2:46:55I feel like he deserves it but I feel
2:46:59like I feel like he's he's back and he's
2:47:01on a short leash
2:47:03yeah well everything that the Israelis
2:47:06the problem has never been that he you
2:47:08know the bad when he's healthy it's the
2:47:10the problem is these is broken down
2:47:13yeah so I even if he comes not that easy
2:47:15had a terrible run of walk right i do
2:47:17then I'll great last year with a with a
2:47:19great 102 years ago the two years
2:47:21started two years ago
2:47:22yeah last year was here but he missed
2:47:23almost all the whole season and they
2:47:25were terrible without them so i think
2:47:28would be you know but it was around that
2:47:30will do you feel
2:47:31I think we will do you a favor this
2:47:32weekend expose exposed Prescott so it is
2:47:35possible easier to insert rollback that
2:47:37that's actually true where it would
2:47:39actually saw I got a bad outing by press
2:47:43cotton and lambo would actually bees the
2:47:46political pressure there
2:47:48the thing I keep thinking about is the
2:47:50Tom Brady drew bledsoe back yeah god is
2:47:53it was like what 40 years ago it feels
2:47:55like but so is like the second highest
2:47:58rated passer in the AFC at the time and
2:48:01got injured and a no-name quarterback
2:48:04out of Michigan named Tom Brady was
2:48:07picked in like that
2:48:08870 third round of the draft came in and
2:48:1218 straight games and drew bledsoe never
2:48:15took a snap again
2:48:16yep now that that that's that's the
2:48:18classic example so we'll see i think it
2:48:21would be right we have a great run
2:48:22defense so if Prescott is having to pass
2:48:26and long situations not running play
2:48:28action i think
2:48:29it's it's gonna be challenging for him
2:48:31so we'll see what we'll see i'm excited
2:48:33i was excited last week watching dallas
2:48:35play so we should put it was with our
2:48:38wager going to be you been man what
2:48:40should we bet i mean i don't i'm not a
2:48:42betting man I i only do these sort of
2:48:44friendly wagers where I'm going at
2:48:46someone did you like steak dinner or
2:48:48something like that yeah alright steak
2:48:49dinner next time we're in town together
2:48:51with the liner without the line I'll
2:48:54take for its haha straight up straight
2:49:00up straight up
2:49:01that's what I was line anyways it three
2:49:03or something I think it's 440 with
2:49:06everyone and it's good yeah basically
2:49:08like a neutral field would be one point
2:49:09which to me is a loser it's a little
2:49:12maybe maybe Vegas is starting to get
2:49:15Dallas fever seems to me like seems to
2:49:17me like one . on a on a neutral field is
2:49:21a little little optimistic for Dallas
2:49:24yeah with the promises is green bay's
2:49:26especially the last couple years giving
2:49:28up a lot of back door covers so i think
2:49:30that's that's probably part of it as
2:49:31well will jump out and then what
2:49:34like don't like Detroit if we're up all
2:49:35like 20 0 or 3 10 something about being
2:49:37a 31-28 well the thing to me is that
2:49:41Aaron Rodgers is in that class
2:49:42quarterbacks where I would rather I
2:49:45would rather be down i'd rather be down
2:49:51you know two or three points maybe even
2:49:54four points and have aaron rodgers have
2:49:56the ball and two minutes on the clock
2:49:57then have the lead in the other way
2:49:59around
2:49:59alright and to me that's worth three or
2:50:01four points like so to me you get three
2:50:03points for being at home and you get 34
2:50:05points for having a quarterback who it
2:50:07with two minutes to go in the game you'd
2:50:09rather you'd rather just have the other
2:50:10team score and get the ball back because
2:50:12you'd rather have the ball then let them
2:50:14run it down to zero you know what I mean
2:50:15I do i do well okay i'll give you the
2:50:19points
2:50:19alright then feeling confident de llanta
2:50:21a virtual in virtual reality
2:50:25alright thank you for being on the show
2:50:27but everybody can get more Ben Thompson
2:50:28at the excellent strategic curry . com
2:50:31everybody if you're not a subscriber to
2:50:33start a curry your-your-your I don't
2:50:36know what you're doing with your money
2:50:36but you be better off
2:50:38subscribe and district a curry and after
2:50:41i was taking have a steak dinner 25
2:50:43yeah actually yeah he's got a second /
2:50:44and then your podcast is exponent FM
2:50:49with your co-host of his name i forget
2:50:51James all worthwhile James all along .
2:50:54mm so if you like hearing his voice you
2:50:55get more of his voice before you sign
2:50:57that the talk show again hope you're
2:50:59gonna do pull it dulcet tones the dulcet
2:51:03tones you do it's also good to have you
2:51:07on the show when you're not drunk but i
2:51:12am usually not drunk now for the record
2:51:14I i think it i don't think there's much
2:51:16difference really