0:00:00I like it over there it's awesome it's great it's a it's fun i mean is it's
0:00:06it's hard but it's been really good
0:00:10well this is a busy time for you guys because it's it's like a busy time of
0:00:13the year . because it's like May and June is like when everybody in tech
0:00:18wants to if they're launching anything that they're doing it now like you've
0:00:22got to get it out before july and august and you guys have a big conference that
0:00:26just got wrapped up right yeah which was my third time as my third time attending
0:00:32it but my first time working it and totally different experience is that
0:00:38mean it's it is an amazing conference it's probably you know obviously it's
0:00:42different than something like WWDC or CS but as far as executive conferences go
0:00:48and check that the public is invited
0:00:50well sort of invited to I think it's the best one
0:00:54well and it's you know it the history clearly dates to $YEAR when it was
0:00:59called all things D I mean it's you know to kara and wall and the big red chairs
0:01:05and you know it was the basically the only conference that Steve Jobs want to
0:01:10besides macworld and whatever Apple would put on Ryan instant and the
0:01:14difference it's you know that the big difference is that when Apple put on a
0:01:17keynote it's not really a conference it's you know here's everything we have
0:01:21to say and it's prepared and you know onstage there it's want Cara asking the
0:01:27questions right totally hear the difference and preparedness and who kind
0:01:33of lays out what what they talked about and all that but it was great actually
0:01:38you know I you know watching the the videos now I you know I kind of wonder
0:01:44like and what if jobs were still here what would he be talking about that kind
0:01:50of kind of ruins the mood but watching jeff bezos and Elon Musk just really
0:01:57really exciting and really interesting that's a great list i mean i would i
0:02:02would say you know pretty hard to top in today's executive world Baeza a one-two
0:02:06punch of bases and
0:02:07Elon Musk yeah was it was great because Bezos kinda has taken the role of the
0:02:13elder statesman almost as far as like CEOs who are still really really
0:02:19involved in the day-to-day and you know we'll talk not only it at length about
0:02:24the products that their companies make but just kind of the bigger picture in
0:02:27general which is kind of the role that jobs would would do you know he would
0:02:30talk not only in detail about how Apple thinks but also just kind of what's
0:02:35going on in in the world and yet you know if you haven't had a chance to
0:02:40watch the the full videos 80 minutes of jeff bezos talking to walt mossberg and
0:02:45then the other one was i believe over an hour of Kara Swisher and Walt
0:02:50interviewing Elon Musk they're there they're all available for free on Rico
0:02:56you should check them out
0:02:57it's really interesting and mask meanwhile musk kinda has played this
0:03:02role as like the the wacky guy in a spacesuit basically who you know half
0:03:08half of the talk was a physical lesson and the other half was you know let's
0:03:14pretend that were inside of a video game is at Rose it was crazy and it was super
0:03:21fun and that and that one came at the end of like a for me a 16-hour day setup
0:03:27and that might be a little mind blowing to have Elon Musk up they're speculating
0:03:31on whether it may know the idea was that you know and it's not like he's the
0:03:34first person i mean anybody who ever smoked a little weed and colleges had
0:03:37the same yeah the same you could go down that rabbit hole pretty easily but I
0:03:44mean you get it's a serious question that that actual scientists have
0:03:47pondered is is the universe as we perceive it
0:03:50what could it be a computer civil is our simulation of some kind of you know some
0:03:55kind of super advanced civilization right and i think his answer was like
0:04:01there's a one-in-a-million chance that were not in a simulation
0:04:05yeah I have to say I I i disagree with that I kind of feel i kinda lean towards
0:04:10the Occam's razor explanation that know this probably is it
0:04:17I I don't wanna you know I think people should watch it because it's interesting
0:04:20to see a smart guy riff on this it really is i'm not trying to discourage
0:04:23people from actually watching it I promise I promise to put the links to
0:04:26those two videos in the show notes they really are worth watching
0:04:29I think that the argument that there's an infinitesimally small chance that
0:04:34this is the real universe is that if you assume that computers are going to keep
0:04:40getting faster at the rate that they've gotten faster you know and that
0:04:44civilization is going to you know we're not going to destroy ourselves
0:04:48um eventually we're going to have computers that could simulate and in
0:04:52something as complex as the universe and they're going to have you know the end
0:04:58are going to be billions of those stimulates of simulations so if any
0:05:01civilization got to this level of technology first then the the odds are
0:05:07that of all the things that are as complex as the universe that that we're
0:05:11in the one that's actually real is very small think that's fair paraphrasing
0:05:14yeah that's basically what he said which you know i mean we wouldn't know would
0:05:21we
0:05:22but it's interesting i guess we wouldn't know what we I don't know they figured
0:05:30it out in the matrix that's sure
0:05:32huh that's true we need a nokia phone and some pills i guess i think that one
0:05:39of the things that makes these two guys interesting and it's one of the things
0:05:42that certain jobs just a compelling figure . but and I i think there's even
0:05:47like a term for it but that it's it's not just the fact that their CEOs and
0:05:51it's not just the fact that there they run interesting companies and it's not
0:05:55just the fact that they have their interesting minds and they come out you
0:05:58know they say interesting things but it's that the founders of the company
0:06:01that CEO founder it has a certain magic and maybe there's no real maybe it
0:06:08shouldn't maybe that's not quite logical maybe that's sort of a lizard brain
0:06:12aspect of human perception but that somehow there's there's a gravitas to
0:06:20CEO founder that say Tim Cook is never going to have
0:06:26yeah and and I don't you know in it and and I don't know if that's because their
0:06:33founder or you know because they're still CEO but maybe just because they're
0:06:38the type of person that would be the founder of something truly successful
0:06:43and and big and i think it's it's kind of interesting in comparison to many of
0:06:49today's CEOs who make cool things and then kind of you know Escape you know
0:06:55quit the company or something like that not only are they still there but
0:07:00they're using their power and influence in really interesting and creative and
0:07:06productive ways you know in vases case doing space research and starting new
0:07:13companies and buying one of the nation's most storied newspapers mosque to
0:07:20basically creating now creating free start-up ideas for everyone every couple
0:07:26years like the Hyperloop and now what was he talking about the the mesh that
0:07:32goes in your brain and you forgot us
0:07:36yeah that totally lost me there yeah I believe him and I right I don't
0:07:43that's cool i really i really liked it and you could also so we you know we
0:07:48also had sundar Pichai which you know in the same vein as cook like he's the CEO
0:07:54one of the most powerful companies in the world is an interesting guy but
0:08:00doesn't carry the same weight as a Bezos and then bill and melinda gates and you
0:08:06could you can really tell that bill is no longer thinking as the CEO microsoft
0:08:10but is you know it as a world-leading philanthropist and is really actively
0:08:16much more interested in science and and medicine then you know that the nuts and
0:08:24bolts of technology and the internet yeah something
0:08:31sink to and I i don't know if it's coincidence or if there's really
0:08:34something to it to the fact that Bezos and musk are in fact directly competing
0:08:39in terms of that having a space in a rocket ship startups trying to privatize
0:08:46space exploration something that had previously been entirely a government
0:08:52overseen endeavor Elon Musk has space ask X and what space is this blue origin
0:09:00is that me yeah that's it that's it the origin III don't know if that's a
0:09:05coincidence I don't know if that's just a factor of you know that couple of guys
0:09:11born in the sixties when space you know as young boys with an interest in
0:09:19technology how could you not be obsessed with space and that if you ever got
0:09:23successful enough that be in the position to do it it's inevitable that
0:09:27they would or is there something to it like is this really going to be a thing
0:09:31you know in the next 10-15 years
0:09:33yeah that I think it's some of both i think you know if you have essentially
0:09:39unlimited money
0:09:40what's bigger than trying to you know leave the planet you know it's hard to
0:09:47imagine bigger things than that but I do think a lot of it has to do with when
0:09:51they grew up I don't know if you know I I don't know if Mark Zuckerberg has more
0:09:56interest in space for example he might I don't know and I don't know if that is
0:10:00just because of who he is and or our sample set is pretty small here but it
0:10:05is interesting coincidence that the two of them are are so into it or maybe not
0:10:10a coincidence that it's certainly interesting i don't know do you want to
0:10:14go to space
0:10:20I have late breaking news live late breaking news I have to interrupt the
0:10:24show this is big news
0:10:26my wife just came into the office while recording she no I knew that must have
0:10:30been a big deal she found my missing canisters for the busy machine that up
0:10:39where were they Amy we're gonna do it we're going to reveal it on the show
0:10:45where it's not funny
0:10:50where was it fun and they were in the coat closet
0:10:55somebody put them like in a milk crate and the back
0:10:58I don't know who would do such a thing you one of them on the floor and i like
0:11:05that interesting
0:11:10you did you put them there no I believe that I believe that that my wife is the
0:11:14perpetrator and I believe that's why she came in with a very sheepish grin
0:11:19that's cool how many are there three are several right well now I've gotta now
0:11:25I've got a lot you might bite my system with the SodaStream is i have four in
0:11:31the house at all times and as soon as three are empty
0:11:34I take the 32 the wood local william sonoma and exchange them for another
0:11:39three but that that way if i put it off for a couple of days I've got the fourth
0:11:441 in the machine
0:11:45you know keeping me carbonated so our long national mystery of where my
0:11:50missing three canisters were is over
0:11:53all right where were we what we talked about spaceships see my system is is
0:11:57used one up and then not make sodastream for six months haha night I wouldn't i'd
0:12:03i would die of dehydration lodge have to buy i buy like the six-pack of whole
0:12:07foods sparkling water right anyway we're talking about space do I want to go to
0:12:12space no i don't think i do I don't know I don't know I feel like I grew up at at
0:12:17the wrong time like i was born in 1973 so I've never been alive when there's
0:12:23been a man on the moon
0:12:24and i love the space shuttle stuff when I was a kid but then it's like it was
0:12:30like cool we have a reusable spaceship you know it made it seem like there was
0:12:34a there was a coolness to that right there it even as a little kid you could
0:12:38tell that there was something wrong about the idea that they built this
0:12:41massive skyscrapers sighs rockets that look like just amazing and I just filled
0:12:48with jet fuel and then by the time these guys got into space there in these tiny
0:12:52little things that were just at the tip and then they come back and you know
0:12:55when they'll and it's you know all that comes back into the ocean is this tiny
0:12:59little thing that you know looks like a refrigerator and you could tell the
0:13:07techs inefficient so when the space shuttle program started i was i don't
0:13:10know i remember being I was in school the day the first space shuttle launched
0:13:14and you know that was so awesome they can only let everybody got out of class
0:13:18and we crowd around the TV and watch you know watch it on the news and i think
0:13:23they even let us do it again when it landed i think when it like that space
0:13:26shuttle landed they pulled us all out of class and let us watch it was amazing
0:13:30because here's the ship and when you know like they're still Rockets you know
0:13:33that to get into space there were disposable Rockets but the main ship
0:13:36itself came back that seem like k we're getting somewhere and then nothing else
0:13:40really happened right i mean it's like after the space shuttle and the space
0:13:45shuttle program had a couple of you know like with the Challenger disaster was
0:13:48all kind of a bummer
0:13:50yeah yeah for i would say for me that the main problem is I'm just not really
0:13:55a desert guy so going to Mars it's like where I don't really not really
0:14:00interested in going to a giant desert if there were lush mountains and streams
0:14:07maybe that that would be interesting but yeah I could see it it may be you know
0:14:11like the 2001 a Space Odyssey idea if they put a hilton just in orbit around
0:14:16the Earth yeah put a help in orbit
0:14:19I i might be convinced to go to that but I feel like it going to Mars it's you
0:14:27know it seems like certainly within our lifetime there's never gonna be a way to
0:14:29go there that's not you know it at you know incredibly long trip
0:14:34I know I I feel like it's a long enough trip
0:14:37flying to California right yeah that's going to say enough this it's enough fun
0:14:45to go to LA for a few days and if I either help nor in low orbit that I
0:14:50would I i will i will withhold the the right to go up there that could be neat
0:14:54that's basically like one of those emirates flight swear you have the the
0:14:59the suite with the bath the shower now just going for him for a week instead of
0:15:0512 hours and remember
0:15:07yeah and you know it would be cool to experience weightlessness i guess i'm
0:15:12not sure i get the infatuation with it and i think you know i think you're
0:15:16right i think it is sort of generational though and maybe these guys are right
0:15:19you know like you know maybe there was something to the the the sixties john f
0:15:24kennedy you know challenge to to do something like that seems more than
0:15:29coincidental that basis and Oscar both both have that obsession
0:15:34well maybe next year we need to have them both on at the same time dueling
0:15:39dueling rockets
0:15:41yeah it makes me wonder like like two bases hangout was he there the next day
0:15:44did I would like to do they spend any time together I know it was you know
0:15:47basis the first night in Moscow second and I know
0:15:50musk was late getting there so he was obviously wasn't there you know
0:15:53beforehand
0:15:55no to my knowledge there was no hanging out just kind of a bummer be cool if the
0:16:01kind of the VIP guests hung out and stayed around for a while but a lot of
0:16:08times now they just kinda take take off go back to wherever they come from go
0:16:15back to their bond blares Bond villain years
0:16:18yeah I heard I heard last year that that the snapchat guy basically showed up
0:16:25took a brand-new tshirt out of a box put it on went onstage got off stage and
0:16:32then left basic looking but the new t-shirt thing that gets me
0:16:38yeah I'm not going onstage of that now is like a brand new mini edition deep
0:16:43v-neck t-shirt go on to forget the brand and we actually so we just relaunched
0:16:48the site i should probably explain why I'm
0:16:51there but basically you know the vox media bought recode of over just over a
0:16:58year ago and you know many part in many reasons for the code conference itself
0:17:05but also because the recode website is so influential and you know just a brand
0:17:12that people know and and I think trust and you know they want to do a lot more
0:17:18with it so they approach me earlier this year with kind of that that in mind and
0:17:24it sounded like a really exciting opportunity for me so with the first
0:17:28thing we did was was completely redesigned the site and relaunch it on
0:17:32the vox media publishing system and and now we're we're about to open a bunch of
0:17:38jobs and and hire new people and and expand our coverage and and do a lot of
0:17:43that sort of stuff so Daniel left off the very most important thing that you
0:17:47guys did
0:17:49oh yeah we we got rid of the / government / which I never gave you any
0:17:54way
0:17:54no that was like my first day I think they were like what are we gonna do the
0:17:57slashing we are getting rid of the / if there's ever a question about how to
0:18:02write the name of your site that is a problem
0:18:06so it was great that's that's why it that I think they should have instantly
0:18:11even if it was the first day they should be given you a raise
0:18:14yeah i mean i think i remember maybe it was even you when it when they launched
0:18:18you're like I don't know about this lat i was i was immediately i was
0:18:22immediately questioning / yeah I didn't know what the history of it was and I
0:18:28asked about it last week and i found out about it and let's just say it's not a
0:18:35good
0:18:35it's not an interesting story so I won't repeat it but no one I don't think
0:18:39anyone's really tied to it so well i'm all about simplicity I mean if you
0:18:43remember my every time I build a website it's the simplest layout possible and
0:18:49you know no note too much not too much depth ER or complications so my face
0:18:55recode has had that as part of their brand right from the start that even
0:18:58when they had the slashing their name it has been a very reader-friendly site
0:19:02uh-huh
0:19:03I disagree
0:19:04I think I think it got better i think it I think that the redesign it better it's
0:19:08better I mean before the front page was this very pinterest looking thing with
0:19:13ya variable height blocks and you know and you could say well the front page
0:19:18doesn't really matter
0:19:19people don't really go there are front page is actually still very popular is
0:19:23often the most popular page on the site and it's much simpler now it's you know
0:19:28it's just it's a standard reverse cron actually not always reverse chronicles
0:19:32we have we have complete control over the order of the the post but it's much
0:19:36simpler
0:19:38so any my impression is almost mostly reverse crunch but you guys can pin like
0:19:43a blockbuster story to the top
0:19:45yeah we can we actually do some painting throughout the river like if there's a
0:19:50feature story will keep that in the river up top for a few days something
0:19:54like that but but before like the headline family's future which is a
0:19:59great if you're like one word here and there but not really the kind of fun
0:20:04you'd want to ever read a sentence in for example so some of the stuff i mean
0:20:08it wasn't it wasn't bad it's just at to me it was an opportunity to really
0:20:13simplify and got to work with the really talented design actually the guy who
0:20:17made our logo designed the oculus logo for facebook he his design he designed
0:20:24the logo for curved and some of the other box media properties so I'm really
0:20:29happy with it yeah and the logo has a little homage to the / yes the implied /
0:20:34yeah and that actually was a little more pronounced in the earlier versions of it
0:20:38and I kind of had them to get a little bit but it works i mean that the whole
0:20:43point is for the design to get out of the way and just break news and do good
0:20:47analysis and will do more we we did a few really big ambitious profile
0:20:55features for re-launch which is about a month ago including a really well
0:21:02reported feature one of the first really about Evan Spiegel the founder of
0:21:06snapchat and we sent one of our reporters to Kansas City to write about
0:21:11google fiber which had had now celebrated i believe its fifth birthday
0:21:16there
0:21:17and both of those stories did so well that we were almost surprised and not
0:21:22now we have to figure out how to do more of those because they were really
0:21:25outside of our kind of workflow so where were really happy with that and it's
0:21:33been fun so far
0:21:34you know the the I guess kind of the the the backpack story is that for me it's a
0:21:41reunion with my first boss Peter Kafka who I worked with at forbes a almost 11
0:21:47years ago and we left together in 2007 to start silicon alley insider with
0:21:54Henry Blodgett so we were the first three people with the site that became
0:21:58business insider and then Peter left to join Karen Walton all things D and i
0:22:03stayed on and now you know what is really a decade later we're reunited and
0:22:10that's when you and I first got to know each other was when you're at a business
0:22:13insider or silicon so kind of finale or their alley insider i still remember the
0:22:18first time you linked to us and I said something like well this is wrong but
0:22:24here so i don't remember but claimed chatter or something yeah I don't know I
0:22:29definitely and what's your title your like the editor right I'm
0:22:34editor-in-chief editor-in-chief now you Peter Kostis possum sort of uh huh
0:22:41no one's really Peters bus but no I mean he's here we work together there's and
0:22:48Kara Swisher obviously is very involved in the site but basically it's kind of
0:22:53my sight to do what I want with and my perspective is that you know having now
0:22:58worked at some really interesting business publications and watch the text
0:23:03section basically take over
0:23:06you know I think all you need is the tech section so you know I don't know I
0:23:11wrote somewhere that I tech we used to cover tech as a thing but now take is
0:23:16everything so we'll keep adding new coverage areas we recently hired a
0:23:21really wonderful transportation reporter to cover the rise of well it's not the
0:23:27rise anymore but the continued
0:23:29growth of uber Tesla and those types of companies and you know I anticipate that
0:23:35and by the way that's a role that you know even three years ago we would have
0:23:38kind of scratched our heads out like well why would a text cite Nina
0:23:43transportation reporter but obviously portion of course you do it is funny
0:23:47that it'sit's that's a perfect example of like how this industry changes on the
0:23:54fly
0:23:55you know five years is a good good distance to go back five years ago that
0:23:58would have been like a head-scratcher and today it's like you're not if you
0:24:02don't totally I mean five years ago it i think you were already existed but it
0:24:07would have been covered as a you know an appt startup or something like that and
0:24:10now everything is a nap startup really and just every industry is is going to
0:24:17be a you know reimagine by tech some faster than others and transportation is
0:24:24one that we've kind of identified early as something that we should really have
0:24:28a have a say in uncovering I imagine you know at some point we'll be covering the
0:24:34tech of of food or a finance or all kinds of stuff basically wherever we we
0:24:42ever wherever we have personal interest or wherever we find a really great
0:24:46journalist who can do kinda on that coverage for us
0:24:50have you seen a story that sort of mini controversy about Tesla yesterday about
0:24:57like some guys Tesla had to suspend the ball joint the suspension sort of rusted
0:25:01out
0:25:03you see this story i did not i put it in the show notes but there is a guy who
0:25:09I'd never heard of before named Niedermayer don't mix which always makes
0:25:17me think of animal house but I've never heard anybody is a longtime car industry
0:25:27automobile industry writer Edward Niedermayer okay not that i know another
0:25:31Niedermayer know and i'll send you a link but I ok I'm pasting this into the
0:25:35show notes right now so I won't forget area
0:25:38boom there it is and the gist of his article is riding on Tesla Tesla
0:25:47responded and it seems it again it's sort of like you know musk as jobs like
0:25:52four sometimes like like with those like I'm sometimes he'd sign them like with
0:25:58thoughts on music but like member the one time there was like a fact on the
0:26:01app store it was like an FAQ and it was like there was some stuff in their life
0:26:05you know the app store doesn't need any more fart apps you know not everything
0:26:10needs to be made and you can just tell that Steve Jobs yeah not just like stood
0:26:15over it but that he liked his hands on the keyboard for some of that and it the
0:26:19the Tesla PR response to this was a sort of dismissive in a way it totally in a
0:26:26way that like you know and there's enough people that test was out there
0:26:30they're obviously not all falling apart but you know the gist of it was that
0:26:33they really blame this guy because he lived at the day like a two-mile Drive
0:26:36way to a remote home that was like a dirt road and that the car was just
0:26:40covered with dirt and it's sort of an unexpected use of it but it's you're
0:26:45holding it wrong
0:26:46right but the gist of this Niedermayer guys at what made it more interesting
0:26:49than this specific incident of this ball joint in one test lab model s and and
0:26:54whether they're in general there's a problem is this guy who's a long time
0:26:58automobile industry watcher is very pessimistic on Tesla more so than
0:27:03anybody i've seen in his argument is that again i put in the show notes it's
0:27:09an interesting argument i'm probably linked it from daring fireball actually
0:27:13just haven't gotten around to it yet but his argument is that it's there's a
0:27:18counterintuitive aspect to pricing cars and that people think hey when you spend
0:27:24a lot of money on a car like let's say like a model s you expect a better
0:27:30quality car and that's actually not true because you go to super expensive and
0:27:34get like a Lamborghini or Ferrari in things fall apart all the time and are
0:27:37always in the shop and it doesn't matter because if you've got enough money for
0:27:39ferrari you could just have your chauffeur drive you around in your
0:27:43Mercedes until the cars back out of the shop and that it's the lower you go in
0:27:48prices the lower the price car the
0:27:51or the person who's buying it absolutely positively relies on it and therefore it
0:27:56needs reliability and that that's the secret to Toyota and Honda success you
0:28:01know starting in the seventies is that they from the top down
0:28:05we're focused on a quality in a way that a company from Silicon Valley is isn't
0:28:12going to get it right because quality at every step of the process is sort of
0:28:15event the antithesis of the silicon valley model which is move fast and
0:28:20we'll fix problems later like the revolution that Toyota brought to the
0:28:25assembly line was that the old way was that the car would keep moving down the
0:28:29assembly line and even if all was identified they try to fix the fault
0:28:33after i got off the end of the assembly line and what Toyota is the Toyota Way
0:28:36and you know that's actually a thing like the w is capitalized the Toyota Way
0:28:39is that as soon as a fault is identified in a car in the assembly line the entire
0:28:44assembly line shuts down and I almost move in in Reverse to identify where the
0:28:49fault happened and fix it right there to make sure that it isn't you know
0:28:53perpetrate created in more than one car even if it's expensive to shut down the
0:29:00assembly line and do it that way but then that that that sort of expensive
0:29:03that is sort of what motivates everybody along the way to be hyper focus that you
0:29:08don't want to be the guy who shut down you know cause the assembly line to shut
0:29:11down and that Tesla doesn't have that mindset and as they move down to more
0:29:15affordable cars
0:29:17what's this one called the model 31 sitcom think so whatever the one is
0:29:24called that everybody went nuts foreign and bought a gazillion pre-orders for it
0:29:29this 35,000 our price range people's expectations for reliability are going
0:29:34to be way higher than they were for the hundred-thousand-dollar model s and he
0:29:38doesn't think that they're suited to do it
0:29:40interesting theory yeah I don't know about that i mean he seems really I
0:29:45again I don't know I've never i don't own a successful I don't know what their
0:29:50kind of global reliability is but he did seem to really care about quality when
0:29:57he was talking about a code where he was saying even that the people who bought
0:30:01the base level 35 thousand dollar version
0:30:04would get a pretty freaking awesome car
0:30:07yeah you know definitely not like the kind of situation where you need to
0:30:12upgrade to the fifty-thousand-dollar tier or whatever you know making a
0:30:16number up to get a great car so I it seems like safety is probably the
0:30:22biggest priority but also and you know and also cool features but I don't know
0:30:28it seems like i don't have the perception that Tesla doesn't care about
0:30:33quality
0:30:34I don't know I you know it might also be the kind of thing where they're not old
0:30:38enough to have a long-term example of of how their cars hold up over time
0:30:45yeah I don't know it
0:30:49that seems like what you know how you are describing this will fix it later
0:30:54that seems like the attitude for a lot of software companies especially because
0:30:58the Internet has made it so easy to patch software as it goes and you know
0:31:03you could also argue that that's one of apple's problems that they don't do that
0:31:07enough but when it comes to hardware it seems like the companies that excel at
0:31:11hardware make stuff to last more than the software company so I don't know
0:31:18and the other part of the controversy is that apparently it's come out that when
0:31:24you're with with certain out of warranty of repairs that if your Tesla is out of
0:31:30warranty let's say it's like three years old and you take it in but it's a weird
0:31:33problem and they run it up the chain like hey should we fix it for this guy
0:31:37or at a discount or free that sometimes when they do that they ask the person or
0:31:43in exchange for it they they have you signed what they call a goodwill
0:31:46agreement which is effectively an NDA that you're not going to talk about that
0:31:49your will you know instead of charging three thousand dollars for this repair
0:31:53will only charge you a thousand dollars but you but you need to sign this that
0:31:57says you're not going to talk about the problem and people had some people are
0:32:00spooked about the you know the the in a way that some people just get spooked
0:32:06when anybody's asked to sign an NDA yeah or how about the guy who would eat trash
0:32:11them on Twitter so you can't ya just literally can't is to Stewart Alsop well
0:32:17I'm technology columnist and and now a VC and Ilan much personally cancelled
0:32:25his order amazing which is a very stupid jobs you type thing I mean they're very
0:32:33savvy about some of the stuff they do i wrote a post a couple years ago about
0:32:38how they are effectively a their own media company to the way he would the
0:32:42way that he handled criticism by the new york times and in other situations where
0:32:48Tesla essentially published you know their own media without going to another
0:32:55reporter or something like that there are certainly ahead of the head of the
0:32:59curve in a lot of those things
0:33:01yeah up I've got these i put a couple links in the show notes already so
0:33:04they'll be there for everybody wants to read them here and paste it for you you
0:33:08have to read it while we talk
0:33:10let me take a break actually it's a good time to take a break and thank our first
0:33:15sponsor and it's a new sponsor could not be happier to have them here it's 0 te R
0:33:22oh here's what they make they make a brand new system of Wi-Fi routers why
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0:33:32Wi-Fi is broken because for most people in most houses unless you live in like a
0:33:37studio apartment its if you have dead zones in your house were like you know
0:33:41you don't get good Wi-Fi it's because it's just really hard for one Wi-Fi
0:33:47router to reach everywhere it's just it's really just the nature of physics
0:33:53that the the the waves just can't pass through walls as easily as they can pass
0:33:58through the air and most people have walls and floors and multiple floors and
0:34:03houses so it really doesn't make sense and then the old way of trying to extend
0:34:07it
0:34:07I you know oftentimes you'd end up with multiple networks within your house it's
0:34:11a cap to be like as the system administrator to to do it so the single
0:34:16router models just doesn't work what you need is a distributed system and that's
0:34:20what 0 is and it is amazingly simple so they sent me as part of the sponsorship
0:34:26they sent me a package i got it i set it up they sent me a 3-pack they give you
0:34:30three these little things
0:34:31each one is identical they're just little pucks little apple tv's ask sized
0:34:35sucks a little bit thinner a little bit bigger but a little square round wreck
0:34:40puck honestly it really does look like something apple with design it's that
0:34:44sort of a visual aesthetic it's not something you'd want to hide you know
0:34:48somewhere in a cabinet or something like that it's it easily something you
0:34:52wouldn't mind having out you know on behind your TV or whatever it is it's
0:34:59got all the security stuff you'd want state-of-the-art wpa2 encryption great
0:35:05customer support you can call them up on the phone and get ahold of my Wi-Fi
0:35:09expert within 30 seconds and it's just so simple they recommend 10 for every
0:35:16thousand square feet of your home most houses two or three heroes find so the
0:35:21three pack is a good starting point for just about anybody and if you want to
0:35:24buy more you can just buy more and it you just plug it in to your router your
0:35:31place to take your old router throw it away
0:35:33plug this into your cable with ethernet right just one of them gets the ethernet
0:35:37then wherever else you want to put them around your house just put a couple more
0:35:41and they just configure themselves into a mesh network and just offer one
0:35:48effectively from you as somebody who just wants to hook up your macbook to
0:35:52the Wi-Fi or iphone to the Wi-Fi it just looks like one network you put the
0:35:56password in to configure it you don't have to go to one of those goofy figure
0:36:00you know fakey fake websites worth with the IP address whatever they've got a
0:36:04nice app right there in the App Store for iPhone and Android you just go there
0:36:08on the app and configure it right there really nice app for configuration could
0:36:13not be easier one of the pox it's not like a special one just pick one of them
0:36:17one of them plug it into the ethernet plug a couple more in around the house
0:36:20on different floors and all of a sudden the the fact that you can't get Wi-Fi in
0:36:25your bedroom or something like that it's it's all over so I've got one I can
0:36:28vouch for the ease i can vouch for the fact that the dead spots that we've had
0:36:32in our house are no longer deadspots really really great so if you are
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0:37:00my thanks to ero speaking of breaking news what do you think about scoop scoop
0:37:07gurbin leaving 9to5 mac and his head in a bloomberg yeah it's funny I actually
0:37:13heard about that few months prior right in and say anything and i'm glad i'm
0:37:19amazed that stayed uh stay quiet
0:37:21I heard about it too i heard about it back at the March apple event
0:37:26oh cool and I even heard that it was Bloomberg and yeah I thought about being
0:37:32snarky and posting something about it that now because it seemed like it
0:37:35wasn't it wasn't up and it wasn't clear to me whether South Weintraub 9to5 mac
0:37:40new turns out i think he did at least by march but I didn't want to be I didn't
0:37:45want him to hear it that way and I thought as good but i just thought it
0:37:48was funny that that mark Gurman who spoils all these things for apple and
0:37:54other companies that a couple people i know knew and nobody nobody leaked yeah
0:38:00that's restraint i think it's great i think it's cool i mean it's going to be
0:38:06a bummer to compete with him you know
0:38:09so hey Mark a few if you find yourself miserable at Bloomberg give me a call i
0:38:16think it's cool you know it is going to get to work with brad stone was a great
0:38:19journalist and have what i would imagine are very nice resources available to
0:38:26them and also a TV network and and also you know in an organization that has a
0:38:34very specific mission and a business model that has nothing to do with
0:38:39internet advertising and is being run by a you know an on an on web guy who many
0:38:49people thought would would not really come back and and this is mike boomer of
0:38:52course not really come back and be the boss again and then showed up and was
0:38:56the boss again
0:38:57and you know it is a very profitable business that is dominated by the
0:39:04terminal which is going to face increasing competition so it's it's and
0:39:11is also kind of a in the business of producing solace but extremely accurate
0:39:17very fast you know market-moving news so should be interesting i mean i would
0:39:23guess that a lot of the stuff that would be publishable at 9to5 mac will not be
0:39:29publishable at Bloomberg either because it's too small you know like feature
0:39:34story you know it's not i don't mean long feature stories I mean stories
0:39:37about features of products that probably wouldn't you know wouldn't really cut it
0:39:43we'll see how that goes i don't know it also sounds like he's going to be
0:39:46working on non-apple stuff too so if he can use some of his reporting techniques
0:39:51which you know I admire to break news on another big companies i thought i read
0:39:56that he was gonna be working on stuff like Google and Amazon as well
0:40:00consumer tech I think that's great so it should be really interesting to see how
0:40:03it goes
0:40:04yeah it's the scoop aspect and that's why when I heard Bloomberg months ago it
0:40:11immediately clicked is that makes sense because it Bloomberg again this is you
0:40:15know you and I get a little inside baseball but Bloomberg and end it but
0:40:18it's interesting to you because recode is definitely ate a scoop company to
0:40:22write like you guys definitely pride ourselves on breaking some stories a lot
0:40:29of stories first absolutely and and Bloomberg its institutional at Bloomberg
0:40:34to like you know it's sort of almost the opposite of me is almost seldom ever
0:40:41break anything and don't really care about it but it's you know if and it's
0:40:47exemplified by the leaderboard at tech meme at which you know Carmen is so far
0:40:54out in the top of its ridiculous
0:40:58tell you that I think you're right though it's gonna be interesting to see
0:41:00how his at the faster and Loser style or standards of 9to5 mac compare you know
0:41:09how that translates to an institution with a more formal set of standards and
0:41:16you know i would say not having ever worked with mark that his his accuracy
0:41:22rate suggest that his personal standards are quite high
0:41:25yes because it's very easy to get sucked into posting what you think is the scoop
0:41:32and then being wrong whereas you know even when he is somewhat wrong it's
0:41:38usually you know could be easily explained by well he was right at the
0:41:41time but you know three months passed and totally reasonable for Apple to
0:41:45change the name of something or you know what whether they don't think they did
0:41:50it despite him that one time whatever but now but like he you know to my
0:41:56recollection is never really been wrong about something in a way that suggests
0:42:00that his journalism is highly flawed
0:42:02I you know I don't know who his sources are but my guess is that he's has pretty
0:42:07high personal standards about that
0:42:09so I've actually also never worked for Bloomberg so I don't know what how how
0:42:15the there's also the bloomberg way capital W and and i'm not sure how that
0:42:22will work with with mark but it certainly is a is an interesting place
0:42:27to be right now so should be fun for this learning experience
0:42:32I mean that dude is 23 so he can do it he can kind of do a lot of different
0:42:37stuff and figure out what he likes
0:42:40yeah it's and if you know he doesn't like it he can always move on Interstate
0:42:44know but it to me it's also interesting that he went that route as opposed to
0:42:51you know doing his own thing or taking on you no more independent stuff like 95
0:43:00or yeah creating his own company or trying to work somewhere
0:43:05yeah and i have no idea who else he talked to you know he certainly could
0:43:09basically
0:43:11work at a lot of places i mean i would obviously have wanted to hire him it
0:43:15recode if if if I got him before
0:43:19Bloomberg kid but yeah it's cool i mean you know to be to be open about what
0:43:25what i was thinking you know this was when i was thinking about doing
0:43:28something new this year one of the things that jump back to mine was doing
0:43:32my own thing again and you know splat up too . or something like that
0:43:36there's nowadays there are business models that didn't really exist when i
0:43:41started splat of five years ago
0:43:43so what about this new app store stuff i think it's interesting so you you got
0:43:49breathe so why don't you start off and explain what
0:43:53so only I guess what happened yeah so it's very fast-moving of his monday and
0:43:59some of that Apple PR asked me if if I could be available tuesday for a
0:44:04half-hour or so phone call with phil schiller about some developer news that
0:44:08they're putting out ahead of WWDC next week I said I would try to find some
0:44:13time maybe i could maybe I could squeeze that in so tuesday an addict just a
0:44:21conference call but it you know and speakerphone and a couple of people on
0:44:24the other end but you know it wasn't like other it was just me on my end it
0:44:30wasn't like the other report i think some people the people in California got
0:44:33to meet with him live like that the verge that obviously wasn't gonna work
0:44:38for me but yeah and chiller told me that three things that are three of the
0:44:44things that they're doing or I have already done is the faster review times
0:44:49for the app store all the app stores we've noticed that he has you know
0:44:54developers who are submitting apps and that are used to week-long approval
0:44:58times getting their app approved same day you know it sticks out but it's not
0:45:02a fluke
0:45:03it's not some kind of short-term happenstance
0:45:08it's a deliberate plan that they took three parts of the day what they say
0:45:14staffing changes once I think under a couple of managers in there who
0:45:20sort of roadblocks to to moving this forward and that there are no longer
0:45:24there but in addition to that I think it was very clear talking to show her that
0:45:30the in addition to the staffing changes i think that there's also just the sum
0:45:34some changes to the way they're applying just the pure manpower of how many
0:45:38people are doing it the reviews tool changes and I heard a little bit more
0:45:44about this off the record from other people later in the week but definitely
0:45:48some some really good engineers at apple
0:45:52I mean they're not talking about the details of what these tools are but
0:45:54there's there's been a significant effort expended within Apple to create
0:45:59internal tools to expedite this offer the the app review process they're not
0:46:06revealing details not even off the record but it's not minor to this thing
0:46:13I've understood that months months of time from really good engineers were
0:46:16applied to this and then the last one mystery one to me is policy changes and
0:46:22I asked Schiller if he could expand upon that expound upon that and he hesitated
0:46:27and said I'd rather not talk about it so I don't know what that means but he
0:46:32didn't mean any stop and he did give one example and he said well here's one
0:46:35example that if if and a developer has three apps and they're sort of
0:46:41interrelated and and they update some core component of it and all three apps
0:46:46get submitted at the same time now when the reviewer pulls the app from the
0:46:51queue
0:46:52I mean I he didn't use the word inbox but effectively the inbox of of apps up
0:46:58waiting for approval
0:46:59they'll get all three at once and they can review them together and if there's
0:47:03any kind of you know interconnectedness between the apps it can really XP kit
0:47:08can make it you know an hour-long thing instead of a days-long thing which is
0:47:13interesting but to me that's not really a policy change that sounds like it's
0:47:15more part of the tool changes i suspect that part of the policy this is that
0:47:21nobody told me this this is just my thinking about what this could be
0:47:26nobody told me this on the record or off the record so i could be way off but I
0:47:30can't help but think that maybe some of the policy changes are a little bit of
0:47:34almost just granting the reviewers a little bit of common sense a latitude
0:47:45where like if a developer if they pull up the dap and they look at the
0:47:50developers history and it's marco arment and here's all the absence had before
0:47:57here's the a piece of me a new version of overcast here's the previous updates
0:48:01to overcast and he says that this is an update that fixes a sinking bug and that
0:48:06may be that there's a sort of like well I think we can trust this guy look at
0:48:10his history
0:48:11he's got a reputation put it through you know that don't you know to run whatever
0:48:15tests you want to do but that at an a permanent a developer with a trusted
0:48:20record is going to get less of a a thorough combing over then I brand new
0:48:26one . o app from a developer who doesn't really have a history or whose history
0:48:29isn't really a high-profile I can't help but think that it must be there must be
0:48:39something like that i don't know i mean and this seems to make sense and if
0:48:45anything it's it's kind of absurdly late to make changes like this i mean if you
0:48:50if you think of the app store is a nine-year-old product pretty much every
0:48:55other product that was launched nine years ago as has been vastly improved
0:48:59and that it seems like you know whether it's just a low priority for Apple but
0:49:06the developer app store experience just really didn't change that much over the
0:49:09years yeah the things that they added were so minor I mean those things like
0:49:13bundles you know where you could sell to the same developer could sell bundle of
0:49:17two or three apps as a single purchase you know it's that's I mean it was nice
0:49:23but I mean it's like wow that's not really a major change and it it wasn't
0:49:27something that really addressed some of the fundamental problems that developers
0:49:30had with the app store like these lengthy review times
0:49:34right and i think it's fair way i would guess that if there were any kind this
0:49:37is you know it's far-fetched but the idea that i remember back in the day was
0:49:43over there should be multiple app stores and apple should have to compete with
0:49:46with other app stores you you could bet that if there were other app stores that
0:49:50apple would have made improvements like this a long time ago and much more
0:49:53quickly so you know it
0:49:56yes it's nice to see stuff like this happen but I you know so there was a not
0:50:03really not like a major reorg but a minor reorganize and promotions back in
0:50:06December within Apple and one of the things that got shuffled around that the
0:50:11appstore got moved from being under Eddy Cue to being under phil schiller and
0:50:17that Phil Schiller was going to take it much more active role in overseeing it
0:50:21and this is the result of it that's why she was Schiller who is giving me and
0:50:26and jim dalrymple and the verge Lauren good at the verge and I think in the UK
0:50:33Telegraph I forget who wrote it but i think that they might have been the only
0:50:36for we might have been the only for who got a day in advance and if it was more
0:50:40than that it wasn't anymore but that's why it was sure doing a briefing because
0:50:44it's this is his baby
0:50:46I mean this is his this these are the results of his actions i think it's
0:50:49completely non hyperbolic to say that the app stores improved more in the six
0:50:57months under Schiller than it did in eight years under any Q I i don't think
0:51:01that original and why is that and a couple you know they're from people
0:51:05emailing me you know Twitter you know what's this is eddy cue is incompetent
0:51:11what's what's the problem I don't think that's the case i think it's i don't
0:51:14think it's a case that Eddy Cue couldn't get things like this done i think it's
0:51:19just that he didn't choose to that it that his worldview and what he saw as
0:51:26important in the store wasn't as developer focused as it as it is under
0:51:31Schiller and I just think it didn't it didn't rise to a priority level that it
0:51:35that it got done like it might these things might have been on the list under
0:51:38cute but that they didn't percolate to the top of the list and therefore didn't
0:51:41get done well it's also very easy for Apple feel like the app store is a huge
0:51:45grand slam hit
0:51:47I mean and a huge success that right the number the growth was was unprecedented
0:51:52the numbers are all up into the right and right and how you know how can you
0:51:56argue with success of this storm by the way we've we've written you check for
0:52:00billions of dollars so why aren't you happier 40 billion dollars i think is
0:52:03the number and i think i think that's what shoulder told me the other day and
0:52:07and and that might be it might just be that that was the number from January
0:52:11and it doesn't even include whatever they've paid since from january to
0:52:15$MONTH now because of that that hasn't been either hasn't a leader hasn't been
0:52:19authorized to come out and to me what's even more amazing it and could be 10 to
0:52:23you know a hundred times more amazing is that's only the money that goes through
0:52:28the itunes system it does not include the money that goes for example directly
0:52:34to Boober or driving like that when I is in my you know i'm i'm making this up
0:52:38but it's it could be five to a hundred times more money that that actually goes
0:52:44through apps that has nothing to do with with that 40 billion dollars so yeah for
0:52:49me by far and away the most money I spend on Hooper without question through
0:52:53my phone
0:52:54the most money I spend has got to be the ruber know where they are the apple
0:52:57store app when I buy a new laptop or something like that but for amazon or
0:53:02whatever yeah but that's that there's so much money that goes to these apps and
0:53:06you you really do have to make it a better product for for him developers
0:53:11for app users for everyone so you know so the other is the other changes are
0:53:17more I guess they're all kind of developer focused well the subscription
0:53:21pricing so I say how do they kind of frame that it was it was framed as we've
0:53:32had subscriptions but for a very limited number of type of apps cut mostly
0:53:38content producing apps like video streaming audio streaming you know like
0:53:43Spotify it's great healer is such a pro that he's never knocked off so it's like
0:53:49he never mentions any competitors even just on like a phone call never even
0:53:53though it never did mention span Spotfire panda
0:53:56but he just mentioned you know streaming audio streaming video remember the daily
0:54:03i think was one of the first yeah yeah yeahs job and he said news news
0:54:07obviously qualifies you know you can subscribe 22 paywall publications like
0:54:12the New York Times and Wall Street Journal through an app more or less an
0:54:21app that you have to subscribe to get content in you know on a regular basis
0:54:27and he said where you know we want to change that to open that up to all app
0:54:30categories and he mentioned and I didn't quote him on this but i know that the
0:54:38verge did to the verge quoted him on it that it would apply to like a
0:54:42Productivity app that requires you know constant updates to support features and
0:54:49and stuff like that and so I took it and initially as meaning that just about any
0:54:54app would be able to use subscription pricing in any way they see fit so that
0:55:01if you wanted to like an app like Vesper that that you know me and brent Simmons
0:55:07and and Davis made if we want to just do subscription pricing we could just do
0:55:11subscription pricing ah and then you know when they published their own
0:55:20website it
0:55:21Apple's website that language on the webpage made it seem as though it was
0:55:25still mostly about getting content and it was very very confusing and you know
0:55:30i emailed Apple PR and I got got answers but they were opaque and the lid long
0:55:39story short you know and then I got a phone call and the answer is i posted
0:55:45something last night about this that you know they're they're still thinking
0:55:50about how to clarify this but that they're absolutely aware of developers
0:55:54uncertainty about this definitely i keep looking forward to two talking to
0:56:00developers next week at WWDC about the way that developers have in their head
0:56:04that they'd like to use subscription
0:56:06and that in the week after WWDC they anticipate posting publishing something
0:56:12that clarifies some kind of fact that clarifies what the rules are going to be
0:56:17and what is this
0:56:20when does this take effect is it part of the iOS 9 sdk an app store or is this
0:56:25something that won't really work until iOS 10 anyway I is a good question i
0:56:30think its iOS 10 I think they're launching up so they have time
0:56:33yeah they said that they're launching a beta over summer there are already
0:56:38subscription apps and they'll get to take advantage of that new pricing
0:56:43system immediately it sounds like yeah well any other new rep share one of the
0:56:48biggest that might be the biggest thing that they announced that any app was any
0:56:51app using subscriptions after the subscription is a year old this revenue
0:56:57split exchanges from 70 30 which is what Apple publicly used for everything at
0:57:03all times everywhere there are long-standing rumors that like on Apple
0:57:08TV some of the third individual deals made out with companies that are better
0:57:13probably 8515 i guess but that at least for developers in the iOS and mac app
0:57:20stores everything is 7030 in-app purchases at purchases subscriptions
0:57:25everything after a year it goes 8515 until the end of the subscription and
0:57:31that's perfect because that's a significant difference especially if
0:57:35it's a three four five six years subscription
0:57:38it's a lot a lot of money it's like a twenty percent increase so that's
0:57:43interesting and it applies and meet that applies immediately so if I believe
0:57:46retro actively yes
0:57:48so if you already have a subscription app you know that that previously a
0:57:53qualified first subscription with the old rules all of your subscribers who
0:57:58have been with you for more than a year that's starting next week i think you
0:58:02know when the next billing cycle for those subscriptions comes around it will
0:58:05be 8515 for you that applies immediately which is nice I mean you you could also
0:58:11argue that it really should just be ninety-seven percent three percent
0:58:16because once the marketing is done apples really only facilitating
0:58:20trick credit card transactions but you know they also are in the position to
0:58:26set the rules so I think it's interesting that to me one of the most
0:58:30interesting things about this subscription thing is that this is kind
0:58:35of the problem the appstore solved for prior mobile apps if you you know if you
0:58:43think back to the days before the iphone when you had a flip phone or whatever
0:58:49they're there were apps and there were games and that kind of stuff and they
0:58:52were all sold on subscriptions and they were comically overpriced subscriptions
0:58:56and the phone companies took most of the money and the developers got hoes down a
0:59:01lot of it which is one of the reasons that these said that these apps really
0:59:06never took off but they all got added to your phone bill
0:59:09yeah and I but i think they were even like class-action lawsuits about you
0:59:13know how you would kind of get suckered into subscribing to one of them and and
0:59:17never get never it was never easy to get to unsubscribe and that's that kind of
0:59:22stuff but when the app store came out and 2008 and made it you know an
0:59:26ownership model where for a few bucks and then you know what what eventually
0:59:30went down to 99 cents and free you could actually buy a nap and owned it
0:59:35that was a huge difference over the previous model where you know you might
0:59:38get Tetris for 599 a month or something like that of which the developer got
0:59:43less than half of it and so it is a different time and you obviously the the
0:59:49devices themselves have changed so much since then and the absent themselves too
0:59:53i think the better the better model now to kind of look at is this is is it
0:59:53i think the better the better model now to kind of look at is this is is it
1:00:00is how profoundly different Adobe's businesses now that they've been able to
1:00:05switch to recurring subscription revenue for their creative suite products and
1:00:09likeness and Microsoft 244 office and you know and if if Apple's trying to
1:00:15make the ipad pro a professional device and they want companies like Adobe and
1:00:21Microsoft to make their highest end software for it they really need to
1:00:26support the business models that those companies are using so i think that I i
1:00:32do expect them to clarify what sort of apps could do subscriptions I mean we've
1:00:39you know you also see on the indie side you see an app like Marcos podcasting
1:00:45app where he charges in optional subscription just because you want to
1:00:49support him so he doesn't renew though I don't think yeah and I don't know how
1:00:53that how that sort of thing I wonder if that I wonder if that would hold up
1:00:59under whatever policies they would Institute them i think that I I'm really
1:01:04optimistic about this if apple takes a laissez-faire attitude to it and let
1:01:09developers I to me apples role should be there to serve as the trusted
1:01:15intermediary be between you and the developer you're paying for the
1:01:21subscription to meaning that apple will be there to make sure that you can
1:01:25unsubscribe easily at any time that you're not going to get the rate changed
1:01:31on you behind your back any rate change you have to approve explicitly that sort
1:01:36of thing and i think that's that's a perfect and other than that I think that
1:01:42they should just let developers try whatever pricing they want and see what
1:01:47works
1:01:47I don't think that they should really get away so they give a developer of
1:01:51something that doesn't get any content at all like a calculator app like p calc
1:01:55from James Thompson wants to switch to at three dollars a year subscription so
1:02:02that there's ongoing revenue and he can keep doing things like updating the app
1:02:09for new os's and
1:02:11not have to you know because there's no upgrade this is the part there's no
1:02:14upgrades in the app store and I don't think there are going to be and so apps
1:02:19like tweet bot and twitterrific have done things over the years were like
1:02:23when tweet pod comes out with a major new version of Tweetbot it's a new SKU
1:02:27in the app store and if you own Tweetbot three to get tweetbot for you have to
1:02:32buy tweetbot for and it downloads as a new app next to Tweetbot three on your
1:02:37on your device and you have to set it up again and make sure your counselor in
1:02:42there and then probably you know delete the old version of weak pots you're not
1:02:46getting like duplicate notifications for the dms and stuff like that and that
1:02:51whole fiddly like now I've got two apps on my home screen and I want to delete
1:02:55the old one and use the new one it's even worse in some ways than old-school
1:03:02managing your applications on a Mac or PC because of the sandbox
1:03:07although I guess maybe two AB from the same developer i think maybe when you
1:03:10with treatment because it's the same developer they can look in the sandbox
1:03:13yeah I guess that actually now that I think about it wanna i'm confused
1:03:16because i have a beta tester of tweaked . so I see all sorts of weird stuff but
1:03:19i guess maybe they can read the old Tweetbot three information because
1:03:23they're they're the same developer and so it's a little bit easier to migrate
1:03:26but the whole idea of having to manage these apps as two different apps and and
1:03:29keep it straight and delete the one you don't want anymore
1:03:32that's the that's the sort of system administration nonsense that the app
1:03:37store is supposed to eliminate but there's no other way for a developer to
1:03:40to put months and months and months if not years of development time into a
1:03:46major new version when most of their customers are you know they already have
1:03:51most of the customers are going to get that they want to make money you know
1:03:55they need to make they need to monetize the users they already have to support
1:03:58the ongoing development and to me subscription pricing is is the way
1:04:02forward
1:04:02yeah i agree and i agree with your assessment that they should let the
1:04:07market sorted out if you know if people want to use this model then they'll pay
1:04:13for it and if they don't they just won't and the app will fail so right or it'll
1:04:17change you know adapter dido change to it paid upfront go back to pay upfront
1:04:21or something like that
1:04:22and I know that there are people listening i know i've heard from you on
1:04:27twitter i know that there are people who really hates description apps and that
1:04:30they like the idea like just basic idea of all right i'll give you will agree x
1:04:35amount of dollars i'll give you five dollars for this version of your app and
1:04:39if a year from now you have a version with new features and you want more
1:04:42money for me i get to evaluate whether those features are worth it to me and if
1:04:47not I'll just stick with the one that I have and it will keep working
1:04:51whereas if its subscription model and a year from now you're not happy with what
1:04:55the app is and you want to stop your subscription before it renews the app
1:04:59make you know depending on how the developer is configured is probably
1:05:02going to stop working or go back to a very limited feature set and you're
1:05:05going to lose what you had because you didn't renew the feature i realize that
1:05:08in some ways that to step back from the users perspective but the truth is that
1:05:15apps tend to stop working after a year or two anyway if if you're not upgrading
1:05:20to the latest version just because of os changes that subscription model just
1:05:24makes that more instantaneous and that's the weight stuff has worked on the web
1:05:30forever i think the web is sort of changed people's mindset on stuff like
1:05:34this like if you sign up for a service like base camp if you stop paying for
1:05:39base camp
1:05:40there's nobody expects right exactly
1:05:44yeah nobody expects that you can keep using the old base camp
1:05:48yeah yeah the models have changed and you know don't be a cheap-ass i think is
1:05:53is is part of it but you know if you get value from software and if the model for
1:06:00the developer to you know build a sustainable business is to make it a
1:06:05recurring revenue thing i also wonder how much of this is has to do with this
1:06:09new Apple like we're services company thing pride that's probably not the
1:06:13number one number two or even number three factors but for Apple to get more
1:06:18recurring revenue through the app store is a great thing as well so yeah well
1:06:23this is why I think they should take a laissez-faire attitude towards it and
1:06:26with reason that I'm optimistic i mean here at to me the biggest hole in the
1:06:30ecosystem and I think I don't see how anybody could deny this the biggest hole
1:06:35in the ecosystem
1:06:36is serious productivity software for the ipad that there's lots of great iphone
1:06:44apps that you can do quote-unquote work with about as best as you can expect to
1:06:50on the phone ambitious apps for the phone and the mac that's the whole
1:06:54reason the mac even still exists is that there are serious applications that
1:06:57people who work on their max all day long can get their work done on and
1:07:03those sort of apps there are some for ipad but nowhere near as many as there
1:07:07are on the mac and a lot of them are a lot of it i would say nowhere near as
1:07:12many as as are necessary for the ipad to become you know the future work machine
1:07:18for a lot of people
1:07:19yes exactly i mean and an example would be the very very popular a drawing and
1:07:25you it's a sort of specialized in UI design the tools sketch sketch outfits
1:07:33very popular and they just announced the date they have a sort of it's not a
1:07:38subscription but they have a sort of annual you know I put it in the show
1:07:43that i make a note but there but their mac only and people love this app sketch
1:07:47is a big big part of the UI work UI design workflow for an awful lot of
1:07:52developers and they don't have an ipad app and they've actually come out
1:07:59publicly and said we don't really a plan to make an ipad app because we don't
1:08:02think it'll be worth it financially we don't think we'll it we don't think that
1:08:06the money we could make from it
1:08:07given the ecosystem you know the pricings you know the prices people
1:08:11expect on ipad that it's just not going to be worth it you know i think it's i
1:08:15think sketches like a hundred dollars on the mac and it there's just no way to
1:08:19know it doesn't seem like they could take the ipad supports that maybe if
1:08:23they could go to like say a five dollar a month subscription they could maybe
1:08:27that would work i don't know i don't want to say sketch in particular but
1:08:30that's the sort of thing you don't see people saying we're not going to make a
1:08:34mac professional tool because we don't think we can make money at it and you do
1:08:39see people saying that on ipad and I can't help but hope I don't I wouldn't
1:08:44necessarily bet on it but it seems to be possible that subscription pricing for
1:08:47apps like sketch
1:08:49could be the answer for the ipad yeah we'll see I mean it would have been need
1:08:55to introduce to launch it at the same time is saying and by the way sketches
1:09:00coming ipad no but I and and you know it easier said than done
1:09:05the switch from buying stuff to subscribe to stuff is happening
1:09:08elsewhere too i mean that's where music is going and there's no rumors that
1:09:12apple is in particular in it you know obviously Apple music is a big a big
1:09:16effort in subscription pricing but that they're strategically de-emphasizing
1:09:20purchasing music from itunes as time goes on I mean I've been a couple of
1:09:24reports about that and also subscribe to paper towels at an awful lot of people
1:09:31watching an awful lot of video through netflix you know that they're not buying
1:09:35all this stuff they're paying netflix eight bucks a month or nine bucks a
1:09:38month or whatever here they're at and watching it until their subscription
1:09:43isn't there anymore which point they watch nothing you know if you subscribe
1:09:48to paper at your paper tells the don't disappear though if you stop your
1:09:53subscription true and I realized there are definitely trade-offs but i think
1:09:59people who want to be need jerk i'm going to resist this you know i'm i'm
1:10:05not going down this route at all
1:10:07you're not moving forward with the industry and again I acknowledge that
1:10:10there's it's not perfect but it's you know it's the way things are going
1:10:15there's also the ads we talk about the ads but I don't we take a break before
1:10:20we do that i'll come back to that and and I want to thank our next concert our
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1:11:36factory that in Germany and they were so happy with that they just bought the
1:11:39factory they just make the blades themselves they sell stuff to you
1:11:42guaranteed and they easily beat the price of big-name companies like
1:11:47gillette and chicken those people because they're not going through
1:11:49middlemen stuff from Gillette makes razor blades and it goes to a middleman
1:11:53and distributor and then it goes to like your local drugstores distributor and
1:11:59then the drugstores send it to the individual retail place in a retail
1:12:03place has to pay all this stuff for the store that they're in and they're all
1:12:06the employees who were there and then you gotta go find a guy to come and
1:12:09unlock the thing to the anti shoplifting class thing to buy these razor blades
1:12:14you're paying twice the price for the blades and it's a big pain in the ass go
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1:12:40so go to Harry's calm and remember that code talk show great sponsor so the last
1:12:46thing apple introduces search ads in the app store and now that i see what
1:12:54they're doing here
1:12:54I i don't think that it's I think we're talking about but I don't think it's
1:12:58worth I I think anybody was upset about it is it's a little misplaced I don't
1:13:02know that Apple needed to do this but I feel like it's this isn't really
1:13:06detrimental and it might end up help
1:13:07developers it's including smaller ones i think the fear that people have is that
1:13:15this is going to be a thing where it the auctions for these keywords or whatever
1:13:19are all going to be 1 by bigger developers with big ad budgets and it's
1:13:23just going to further promote the rich getting richer meaning the most popular
1:13:30apps getting more popular but talking to show her and let's see how they're doing
1:13:34it i think not i think this might actually be a good way for small
1:13:40developers really you know including really small individual ones to with a
1:13:44minimal adspend that they're completely in control of to get their appt at the
1:13:50top of the listing for more searches and interesting statistic that that Schiller
1:13:56revealed was that sixty-five percent of all app download still come are the the
1:14:01path to it is from the search box in the App Store app so getting your app being
1:14:07able to pay to get your appt at the top of that list is actually seems pretty
1:14:11pretty worthwhile
1:14:12yeah i mean these these ads work for a reason and they've driven a lot of
1:14:18growth for facebook's mobile business and google has them it seems logical
1:14:25that apple would have them too
1:14:27I'm sure they'll make a nice amount of money for it and it may I don't think it
1:14:35makes up for the fact that the app store needs to be better organic search and
1:14:41just the appstore browsing and discovery experience needs to be better but it you
1:14:48know it's hard to fault them for for building a system like this and even
1:14:53then I've talked to developers who who buy a lot of downloads on on facebook
1:14:59and google and it's still way cheaper than acquiring a customer almost any
1:15:05other way
1:15:06yeah yeah I've heard that too so in spite of money and chillers parlance
1:15:11it's quote-unquote social networks and search engines
1:15:15yeah in reality its Facebook and Google
1:15:19and it really no other no other social networks are really big twitter has a
1:15:23little bit of it and and when they first launched it i think a lot of people were
1:15:26optimistic about it but it talking asking a few people it seems like it
1:15:31twitter is nothing compared to facebook it was with regard to being able to pave
1:15:34for placement to get app downloads
1:15:36yeah i would say Facebook and Google Facebook and Google a to me the question
1:15:41is will developers get any good data from apple on their campaigns will they
1:15:49be able to see which keywords drove users will they be able to tie those
1:15:54users to any other analytics to tell paid user cohorts versus organic and i'm
1:16:02really curious about that is I think so it's it's I i think that the answer is
1:16:08yes that you'll be able to see if a certain keyword worked or how many came
1:16:12from it
1:16:13they also have an interesting option where you can just say here's what I'm
1:16:16willing to pay and let Apple pick the terms that that would be relevant to
1:16:24your app and you don't even have to pick the search keywords let Apple pick them
1:16:29and you only pay $MONEY per so I don't know whether there's a click or tap but
1:16:35it's since iOS is more popular than mac OS i'll say tap pay for tap so as a
1:16:40developer you only pay if your ad is shown but the user doesn't tap it you
1:16:44pay nothing
1:16:45you only pay when the user actually taps on it so if you figure out what what you
1:16:49know what conversion rate you think you can get for everybody who actually taps
1:16:53on your app and even have a calculator for that to help you figure out like
1:16:58what you should be considering your highest bid in the auction to make sure
1:17:06that you'd be profitable it seems like they have tools like that and I think
1:17:08that that the reporting tools are probably pretty good we'll have to see
1:17:14yeah i mean to me at so that and then there's always users who will tap the
1:17:18add and then not don't know the app right there are people who will download
1:17:21the app and never launched it and then they'll launch it once and then never
1:17:24again so I what I don't know is will you be able to identify which of your users
1:17:30were acquired through app store
1:17:32search ads oh I don't will you be able to compare them
1:17:35yeah I don't think you'll be able to do that because it's so there there's so
1:17:39many privacy-related ranks
1:17:41yes I don't will you be able to target users that have a competitor's app or
1:17:46something like that
1:17:48I remember hearing once that the i add let you target users based on what may
1:17:55be either what apps they had or what songs they had purchased from itunes or
1:18:00something like that I don't really remember though
1:18:03yeah I don't know either and i dare it enters you can definitely target by
1:18:06location and a user can opt out of that you know it's part of the user's
1:18:10location services and you can go to the settings and top-down but that is
1:18:15interesting to me you know it's i'm not quite sure i'm not sure i can think of a
1:18:20perfect example for where it would apply but that seems pretty interesting but
1:18:26those are the sorts of things like as it as a developer you would want to have
1:18:29that access but apples privacy focus might prevent you from from having that
1:18:35excess so right and I'm thinking about you know like something like I don't
1:18:40know like like if a conference has like a conference app that the location thing
1:18:45could help but on the other hand that also seems like the sort of thing where
1:18:49where you shouldn't have to pay it all because the search terms should
1:18:51absolutely know if you type in recoat recoat conference that recode app if you
1:18:58guys had a nap i don't know if you did but if you did it on why in the world
1:19:01would it not be the number one result anyway
1:19:03yeah i think we had a web app this time that that actually was very nice so
1:19:08we're actually surprisingly nice like for a web app yeah i think i mean it it
1:19:15so kind of zooming out a bit i think it's interesting that they went for the
1:19:21strategy of announcing these things first
1:19:25my guess is that none of these would have made the key maybe the subscription
1:19:32pricing may have made the morning keynote but probably not the add stuff I
1:19:39think few times would because they could cover it quickly and i still think that
1:19:43he had I still think they'll touch upon it i think though I think
1:19:46I'll say as you as you probably heard last week you know we've made some
1:19:49changes to the appstore it lets them
1:19:52here's what I think they're gonna do you know that it's like the typical apple
1:19:54keynote style where they'll introduce it and then at the end of the segment
1:19:57they'll they'll review what it is we just you know here's what we're going to
1:20:00tell you now we're gonna tell you now we're going to review they can skip all
1:20:05but the review and just say as you've probably heard last week we've put new
1:20:10systems and tools in place to let app get app reviews to fifty percent within
1:20:1424 hours in ninety percent within 48 hours and then the crowd will go nuts in
1:20:18this year we're adding subscription price is 200 lap categories and 200
1:20:24price points for subscriptions and territory based pricing I i we didn't
1:20:30mention that but that's and I've heard and I am I try not to be us-centric but
1:20:37i can't help but be sometimes but i I've heard from a couple people that that
1:20:41this territory based pricing for subscriptions could be huge and the fact
1:20:45that it wasn't allowed before was really problematic that effectively the old way
1:20:50was you'd set a price if you set in dollars that the price in China would
1:20:54just be the conversion rate between you know
1:20:57China's currency in US currency whereas now you could set a dramatically lower
1:21:01price in a country like China and India where you know your us price was
1:21:08completely out of reach of most people and apparently this is something that is
1:21:13a huge deal and it could make you know subscription to even content based
1:21:18services a lot of a lot more interesting
1:21:22yeah I makes sense i mean if you imagine netflix has a smaller library in many
1:21:26countries maybe would want charge a you know a locally whatever the local
1:21:32equivalent to eight bucks a month is supposed to the direct conversion of
1:21:36eight dollars a month
1:21:38yeah yeah I you know I don't know how I could see the stuff being in the keynote
1:21:41but i can see how if the keynote was deemed full that these were the things
1:21:45that were let's just announced a week in advance like I could see it both ways
1:21:50like if there was room i could see holding them for the keynote if there
1:21:53wasn't a none of them are that blockbuster of a
1:21:58the thing that matter the blockbuster that they'll have enough to go over with
1:22:03the the arm-based mac OS to that was bloody something you told i mentioned
1:22:12that is an example i mentioned something like like you know that apps break over
1:22:17time like like powerpc apps don't run on Intel Max anymore and I something like
1:22:22that could happen again in the future with Intel to arm and that was not one
1:22:26of my koi little I know something is coming i have I don't know it i have not
1:22:30heard one thing from one person that are based macs are real thing I just common
1:22:35sense tells you though that it might it might be a thing because i think apple
1:22:39has good reason to be unhappy with intel intel seems to be late with everything
1:22:44from mobile chips to desktop chips Apple would surely like to have it under
1:22:49control under its own control and the existence proof is there that that there
1:22:53are benchmarks that show the ipad pro outperforming the the new macbook one
1:22:58and it's at least roughly on par in terms of just pure cpu performance so
1:23:04the possibility of arm-based max is real and when they did the Intel thing back
1:23:10in $MONTH 2006 they announced it at WWDC not with hardware that you could go by
1:23:17but they pronounce it at WTC so that developers could start thinking of you
1:23:22know get the tools to recompile their apps to be you know fat binaries with
1:23:26native arm and Intel code so if such a thing were to happen it it it wouldn't
1:23:33be it would actually be there is precedent that they might announce it at
1:23:37WWDC nine months before the machines actually ship so who knows
1:23:43uh-huh alright huh i'm all for it
1:23:46I think that'd be great I you know I do it I do too i don't know i think could
1:23:50be i think it's got to happen eventually I don't know it might just be you know
1:23:5534 years from now and it's like well maybe it just took a while for you know
1:23:58maybe they really wanted those chips to be super fast before they do it but I
1:24:03just think you know I just think it could happen eventually
1:24:07I just think and it just seems like something that would like to have under
1:24:09its own control
1:24:10so we'll see I don't know what do you think of this this week's rumor about I
1:24:17message for android it's in my notes so that's an interesting thing at a
1:24:21meta-level because it came from Mac Daily News who is not really known for
1:24:26breaking rumors i Mak daily news is sort of a mysterious website to me because I
1:24:31don't know who
1:24:32there's no byline on it but it's been around forever forever yeah I mean like
1:24:37I longer than daring fireball i'm pretty sure but I don't know who runs it
1:24:44it's a weird little site Apple to deliver I message to android at WWDC
1:24:49this was yesterday
1:24:51Apple will announce that I message encrypted text messaging is coming to
1:24:55android users at WWDC next monday according to a source familiar with the
1:25:00company's thinking this will make it possible for android and iOS users to
1:25:04communicate securely as I message features and encryption blah blah the
1:25:10source notes that plants are constantly in flux leading up to a bulky notes and
1:25:13the time of the announcement could change but that the iMessage instant
1:25:17messenger service would quote definitely be coming to android this year the other
1:25:23thing he says is that because there's a separate rumor that apple is going to
1:25:27allow person-to-person Apple pay payments via messages
1:25:31that's that's been around for awhile and that's just common sense that Apple has
1:25:35a payment service Apple has a secure messaging service
1:25:39why wouldn't they let me send you money through I message I don't think I
1:25:43question about that it is a great topic i have been what I definitely want to
1:25:47talk about it with you that the payment thing though is what confuses me because
1:25:52there I thought that so much of Apple pay was tied to the hardware in the
1:25:57phones you know the secure Enclave well and to me the bigger question is the
1:26:06fact that it's connected to the credit and debit card network which has a cost
1:26:12to it so if you look at the free person a person payment systems they're mostly
1:26:19go through bank transfers ACH thanks
1:26:24transfers if you do want to use credit or debit you usually have to pay a lot
1:26:29of things square cash is free but squares in the position to lose money to
1:26:32get new users whereas like that's not really an apple right so they're eating
1:26:38those transaction fees so you wouldn't just be able to you know I couldn't just
1:26:43send you a hundred bucks and put it on my chase visa that would cost Apple you
1:26:48know whatever like three or 3 bucks so they're not going to do that I don't
1:26:54know I you know and one of my colleagues reported earlier the apple pays
1:26:58interesting one of my colleagues reported earlier that they would also be
1:27:01working on Apple pay for mobile web
1:27:03I don't know how that would work with that be with their you know how that
1:27:08launched and Howard safari access the secure Enclave you know going back to
1:27:14the iMessage thing if I message is a marketing tool for selling iphones and I
1:27:20think that's how you may be described in a in a previous show it doesn't make
1:27:25sense to launch it on Android but if I message is suddenly a platform for
1:27:31payments for potentially bots for all sorts of stuff then yeah let's get that
1:27:37on as many devices as possible so and you know maybe even get a few of those
1:27:42android users much like Apple music going all this these apple services are
1:27:47kinda cool maybe I should just get an iphone and log right in so I I belong
1:27:53when curious as to when there would be some sort of I message platform the way
1:27:59that facebook Messenger is opening up the way slack is and you can kind of see
1:28:04I believe Apple itself uses I message through some sort of server because when
1:28:09you buy a if you use if you buy an Apple product through their apples to the
1:28:17apple store online and then pick it up in a store they send you and I message
1:28:21saying that it's ready for pickup so and i don't think that someone sitting at a
1:28:26mac and iphone typing that it so Apple obviously has a back-end to send
1:28:31iMessages through some sort of server q so the question is how
1:28:37riches that stn are those API is that the kind of thing that they would ever
1:28:41open up to third parties the way that again facebook Messenger align all these
1:28:47other services are becoming wechat could be coming platforms for BOTS and 44
1:28:53other person machine communication
1:28:56I don't know where thats its fri message but I think it could be really
1:29:00interesting and I know there's a lot of this broke yesterday and most people
1:29:07asking me what I thought were very skeptical of why would that you know
1:29:10this seems completely opposite of apple and you know maybe I message even was
1:29:17this all previously was a premium messaging service you know just one of
1:29:22the nice things you get as an iphone and mac user is you get this nice messaging
1:29:27service that's end and secure
1:29:30maybe they're looking past that now and as you mentioned before to quarterly
1:29:36conference calls in a row a main talking point from Apple was that they are a
1:29:40quote-unquote there now you know one aspect of the company that's worth
1:29:43talking about is that they are services company and a messaging service would
1:29:47play exactly into that and bringing it to android would be a way to emphasize
1:29:52that i keep thinking when I see like the monthly active users are daily active
1:29:57users for messaging apps like whatsapp and what is something that we chat and
1:30:02some of these other ones that I message has to be up there in the same ballpark
1:30:09in terms of active users on a daily basis it has to be that if they spot
1:30:13somehow if it made sense in any way to spin I message off as an independent
1:30:17company it would be one of the biggest messaging services in the world and it
1:30:22would have just by the fact that the demographics of apples customers are
1:30:28that there tend to be for lack of a better word richer there you know it's
1:30:35it's a it's a it's not just the number of users but the amount of money that
1:30:39they have to spend is is significant that that would be a valuable company
1:30:43yet so many times when i see i just noticed it last week with merrymakers
1:30:47enter
1:30:48that trends thing and she talked about the top messaging services in the world
1:30:51and I message wasn't listed it you know are perhaps I'm colored by being mostly
1:30:57Apple focused in and what I write about but i really do think that my message
1:31:01deserves to be treated in in that caliber even though it is iOS and mac
1:31:06only I think bringing it to android would open a lot of people's eyes to I
1:31:12message is value as an independent service
1:31:17yeah by the way credit where due I'm now hearing those words and Ben Thompson's
1:31:20voice the iMessage as a iphone marketing tool so i think that was Ben who said
1:31:26that on your show a few weeks yeah maybe I mean I'm here in Wisconsin tones so
1:31:31how could they make any money at all on this you know like what would be the
1:31:35sense of bringing it like bringing Apple music to android makes sense because the
1:31:39however many android users are using it are paying for it so does make sense to
1:31:45try what sense would it make to bring I message to Android as it stands today
1:31:52well i don't think any right because it would just be that they they would just
1:31:56be losing money on whatever it costs to develop the app which is probably minor
1:32:00but they be losing on the you know the the ongoing cost of supporting all those
1:32:06additional messages right all the bandwidth of photos and videos and and
1:32:11I'll that I think from when any q's on the show a couple months ago I think
1:32:14that that peak that I message handles 200,000 messages per second which is
1:32:20really impressive
1:32:21I mean it's you know i know that you know blah blah blah Apple get services
1:32:24wrong I feel like it's like the it always see are the ones they get wrong
1:32:28in the fact that I message does tremendous volume and does it really
1:32:33well in my experience as a heavy I messages are better and better all the
1:32:36time in terms of like not getting like duplicate notifications on different
1:32:40machines and stuff like that it you know there has to be some other way that
1:32:46they're going to monetize it from android users and whether that payments
1:32:49or whether that's like pots you know from other you know like so that other
1:32:53stores could do the same thing that the apple store does but there has to be
1:32:57something like that
1:32:59so I wouldn't be surprised if that rumor is true at all
1:33:03yeah I think it'd be I think that could be really interesting
1:33:07I you know but you also couldn't argue that that would also be the first ticket
1:33:13for a lot of people to to get rid of their iphone and go to android maybe
1:33:17probably not millions of people but there's price some folks out there who
1:33:21would find switching to android easier if I message were there
1:33:27yeah it really is a good network effect in a good lock in
1:33:30but if the idea is to build a you know a really robust messaging platform out of
1:33:38it that's for other it for BOTS and other services then why wouldn't you
1:33:43want to access and I wonder if like some markets like India which apple is now
1:33:50brought up several times as a key growth area and Tim Cook spent time there
1:33:55earlier this year you know I wonder if that's the kind of thing where it's like
1:33:58well first get I message on your android phone see how cool it is and then you
1:34:03know and then by a a refurbished iphone at your first opportunity but I don't
1:34:09know I I i think that I message as lock-in is more effective than I message
1:34:17as a reason to get an iphone in the first place and you I've heard stories
1:34:20about like you know like teenagers who it's it's you know it's like totally
1:34:26uncool to be getting green messages from somebody and you know and there's memes
1:34:32that are out there you know where people like on Instagram you know treat
1:34:36screenshots of gross a green message but I can't see how that really perfect you
1:34:43know works for anything other than teenagers right i mean who else would be
1:34:46dead and i noticed when i get a green message from somebody and I think how
1:34:51that might you know that surprising that you know that's I would have expected so
1:34:54and so's you know to have an android phone but i don't really i don't i don't
1:35:01think lesser of them right
1:35:03it's you know silence you know what I do I'd I . I did I just think they have bad
1:35:09taste
1:35:09I don't think of them as a bad person
1:35:11and I don't think they should you know they should therefore feel bad and go
1:35:14buy an iphone i just think about there's somebody that doesn't have you know
1:35:17doesn't have the good taste to buy an iphone yeah I I was lying when I said I
1:35:22don't think less of them but I ok one what I my google reporter Mark bergen I
1:35:29excuse that he has a an android phone
1:35:32oh yeah yeah it's too yeah fact I prefer him to yeah I know Mark we rode in the
1:35:37back of a self-driving Mercedes together
1:35:40really yeah that's cool yeah I'm nice and I talked about a couple episodes ago
1:35:47but with a couple months ago you're at the Mercedes self-driving outfit that
1:35:51out there in the valley and mark and I were the two guys who got picked to go
1:35:54together else we could have been killed together as well yeah I yikes
1:36:00yeah if you were followed if your google reporting i have an android phone but
1:36:04anyway I don't think they sell many phones with it but I think once you have
1:36:06a phone and you're used to using I message it's definitely you know if you
1:36:10if you're like hey you know maybe one of these android you know maybe there's
1:36:13some stuff in android that's appealing to me like not having your iMessage
1:36:17anymore it seems like maybe I shouldn't switch but so it would be magnanimous
1:36:21for Apple to offer it on Android as in terms of like we you know we don't want
1:36:27to use this as a as a lock-in you know we're we're confident that people will
1:36:31stick with iphone you know for other reasons and and you know if you do want
1:36:34to leave take your message ID you know with you i also really do believe that
1:36:41the hassles that and I think they fix some of these problems but there were
1:36:44problems that that people had maybe still have to some extent where once
1:36:48your phone number gets associated as an iMessage phone number if you do switch
1:36:52to android and just pop your sim into an android phone you don't get text
1:36:56messages from people right forget those people yeah it's like you have to
1:37:02remember before you switch to disassociate your phone number from your
1:37:07Apple ID and then switch and that even there were people who even did it the
1:37:12right way and it still got lost and they don't they don't get text messages from
1:37:15iphone users because Apple keeps trying to send them as I messages
1:37:19and you know it's a pain yes so I think now you can after the fact going and
1:37:25remove and I message device from the server some yeah I think that's the
1:37:31solution that they can't they've come up with a way to do that they've given it
1:37:35delivered some kind of interface to allow it but that wasn't there before
1:37:38here's a question I have though about it I message on android is part of the
1:37:43appeal to me a huge part of the appeal on iphone is that I don't have a
1:37:47separate app for SMS that it just it's just one happen i don't have to worry
1:37:51about it
1:37:53yeah and-and-and similarly I wonder how that new alo app is going to work on
1:37:59Android where it's not the i believe it's not the default texting app but
1:38:04don't know the new app yeah I wonder if you'll be able to somehow selected as it
1:38:11is the main texting app at some point i would say that were maybe we're the
1:38:17minority I mean a lot of people are already using facebook Messenger and
1:38:21whatsapp and we chat is their primary texting app mentally so maybe this is
1:38:27not a it's big of an issue for them that i use mostly I message i do two or
1:38:33twitter d.m i guess but it's a lot of times i sent Twitter dm's and it's like
1:38:38if it's an ongoing threat i'm like why the hell am I will be not doing this on
1:38:41my message to get better
1:38:43whoo yeah or i won't see it for two days because i'm running twitter for mac in
1:38:48it somehow swallows the the notification or whatever but so I don't know as my
1:38:56verdict on my message for android is maybe yeah I could see it going either
1:39:00way and the biggest reason i'll repeat is simply the way that Apple's been
1:39:07saying we're services company where services company that would be putting
1:39:11their muscle where their mouth is right
1:39:16I wonder what it's like to be on the Android team at apple and if it's
1:39:20anything like what being on the Mac team at Microsoft was ten years ago I do I
1:39:25wonder I don't know are like the people who wrote or I guess continue to write
1:39:29itunes for windows
1:39:31yeah
1:39:31maybe they're exiled could be an even a another office somewhere it is worth
1:39:39noting though that Apple music for android
1:39:41i mean i-i don't have that I've tried it I five installed it on the Android a
1:39:47burner phone i have here but I it is to my eyes a much more natural android
1:39:57style app in terms of you I than any you know than any of googles apps are for
1:40:02iOS like Google uses their material design language which is effectively the
1:40:07Android design language on all of their iOS apps but Apple music for iOS or
1:40:13Android looks like an android app it's got the android style share button the
1:40:17android . and stuff like that whereas itunes famously was not a very windows
1:40:26like app at all and yet our safari yeah I believe it even had brushed metal at
1:40:33launch perhaps yeah i think it did and I used safari used the mac they it's like
1:40:40they built like a little mini version of coco into the app and yeah use that the
1:40:44max style anti-aliasing which you can get into an argument about which one is
1:40:49a better anti-aliasing algorithm right Apple's was thicker and fuzzier and
1:40:55Microsoft was more a little bit more like pixel perfect but thinner but the
1:41:02bottom line is that you just you just stick out it's a good unit you're not
1:41:05the platform host so you should you know when in Rome be like the Romans went on
1:41:09Windows render text like Windows it it's a lot like putting on a stranger's pair
1:41:14of glasses but any time I saw the microsoft anti-aliasing it i just
1:41:19couldn't even read it like it was
1:41:21that's a good way to put it right pretty words the cocoa appleone just felt so so
1:41:28much more right real print him I i should mention that by the time so far
1:41:33to pop the plug was pulled on safari for windows they had actually fixed a lot of
1:41:37that that by the time the plug was pulled they were using the windows text
1:41:42rendering I think they do weren't using
1:41:44blackbrush metal i think that you know looked a lot more like a Windows app but
1:41:49it was too late
1:41:50it was like and I never had a marketing money behind it so we're going to just
1:41:55you know so I i should mention that for anybody who actually did the hard work
1:41:59at Apple if they're listening that you know I recognize that by the end of
1:42:02safari for Windows you did fix some of those but anyway speaking of google apps
1:42:07did you see the the google motion stills app for iphone yeah you know I
1:42:13downloaded it and it didn't work
1:42:17it's really uh I must have some weird edge case where it just doesn't like my
1:42:22photo library or my phone or something it just would it would show the one of
1:42:29the live photos for a split second and then I would scroll and it would just be
1:42:33all blank so i deleted it i maybe I should try it again
1:42:37you know maybe it's me guess let me guess it's not featured in the app store
1:42:40nope not featured in the app store despite being a very cool app and I
1:42:45wonder why that is
1:42:48hmm i don't know you know one of the things that is different in the app
1:42:52store under Schiller recently is that they changed the featured apps on almost
1:42:56a daily basis whereas it used to be like a weekly thing like every Tuesday they'd
1:43:01roll out a new set of featured apps
1:43:03yeah there's a lot more emotion in that regard to ya
1:43:09interesting yeah i think other people are getting bugs too so maybe i'll wait
1:43:15for 1.1 here I'm every every downloaded it and check access my photos
1:43:25yeah and I like it'll do the first two and then it's then i'm done so i don't
1:43:30know there's some weird bug you fix it someday
1:43:33it's sounds cool though I mean I said yeah I did shoot a bunch of live photos
1:43:38at the beginning of having the 6s plus and I haven't recently but if there was
1:43:44something cool to do with them i probably would again I should live
1:43:47photos by default
1:43:49just because I've got 225 phone and it's nowhere near fold up so why not
1:43:54yeah cool
1:43:56yeah III and I turned it off for the storage reasons but I don't ever do
1:44:02anything with them though as a live photo because there's they're so hard to
1:44:06share i mean it is it's a curious thing so did the googles if anybody doesn't
1:44:10have it at Google motion stills it takes your live photos and lets you share them
1:44:19either as a video or as an animated gif which puts them into two formats that
1:44:26you can actually share on like a social network as opposed to the propriety in a
1:44:31nice a proprietary there's nothing that that a technical level is proprietary in
1:44:37the apples that the way that it stores live photos on disk it's jpg and then
1:44:44like and it at sidecar mov file like a h.264 video with that the corresponding
1:44:52video but the the way that software would know how to play a live video is
1:44:57you know you'd have to spend you have to write right you have to specifically
1:45:01backwards engineer the way Apple is doing that and so things like social
1:45:05networks like Facebook and Twitter and Instagram don't let you just natively
1:45:09post live photos in a way that if you just post a gift to Twitter everybody
1:45:14sees the animated gif so motion stills makes that possible
1:45:19pick an animated are a live photo from your library turn it into a gift and
1:45:26share or save it back to your camera roll to share
1:45:28there you go done but the second thing that it does which is really really you
1:45:34know what levels it up is that they use their super powerful image stabilization
1:45:41stuff that google has to take out the shakiness of the live photos and the
1:45:47before-and-afters on some of this is just amazing like it just you don't have
1:45:53to do any work it just identifies ok this is the subject of the photo it's
1:45:57this person the rest of this is all background so will stabilize the
1:46:01background for the entire animation and let the just let the subject move around
1:46:06and some of the before-and-afters on this or just absolutely mind-blowing but
1:46:14yeah that's it's kind of cool all the stuff Google's been doing with images
1:46:17lately
1:46:18well and I think this is pretty cool sign of sort of it because one of the
1:46:23things that I i mocked a little better took gentle fun poking at is that one
1:46:27google announced this the comments are just filled with android users upset
1:46:31that this is a Mac iOS only app instead yeah android app and then people say
1:46:37well android doesn't have live photos and somebody said that there's like one
1:46:40HTC phone that introduced the same feature under a different name a year
1:46:44ago so you need an eager to android does happen if you have this one phone out of
1:46:50the 8820 7 android phones on the market it's just kinda cool that they be will
1:46:56you know that google is willing to make like a cool little iOS app that's really
1:46:59only applicable to iOS users just to solve a problem that now that you see it
1:47:05you kind of think like why didn't apple solve this themselves you know why
1:47:09didn't apple seed that you know these live photos if if they're cool that
1:47:13people are going to want to share them on social networks so why can't they put
1:47:16it into video or gif file
1:47:18yeah and I mean maybe they will it next week but who knows but it really speaks
1:47:25of google being aware of what their business model is which is you know
1:47:28reaching all people on the planet with their services and getting them to share
1:47:33more stuff with google I gotta take a break for another sponsor but before I
1:47:37do I want to I want to just insert like a parenthetical there to rewind about
1:47:41half an hour to where we were talking about subscriptions
1:47:44do you know how to manage your subscriptions your iTunes Store
1:47:48subscriptions kind of I think you going to itunes on a mac at least that's how
1:47:57i've done it maybe and so I'm aware I'm there I'm aware of two ways you can go
1:48:05to itunes on your mac and go to the account menu and then you go to view my
1:48:10account and then you scroll down and click another thing and then you can see
1:48:14your subscriptions in there there
1:48:15kind of hidden and then on iOS you can do it on iOS too and it's even more
1:48:19hidden there where you go to settings so far so good you would expect it to be
1:48:25there
1:48:26itunes and app stores and then from there it doesn't look like there's
1:48:31anything with subscriptions but you have to do is tap on it just as Apple ID and
1:48:35there's my apple ID you tap on your Apple ID and then you get a mitt a
1:48:39dialogue that says view Apple ID sign out i forgot or cancel
1:48:44you have to save you Apple ID then you have to type your password and then if
1:48:49you scroll down there's a thing that says subscriptions and a list all your
1:48:52subscriptions
1:48:53that's good and you can do things like canceling their but I feel like that's
1:48:57hidden enough and it's good that they're all listed in a row and that there is
1:49:00there are at least you know in itunes on the mac and iOS there's a way to get see
1:49:05here's everything I subscribe to through itunes but that has to be if they're
1:49:09going to make subscriptions more of a thing that has to be easier to find
1:49:14yeah we're kind of me because I honestly think it's not just like hey you're
1:49:19doing the right thing by the user by making it easier to find
1:49:22I honestly think that making it easier to find will instill confidence in users
1:49:27that i'm not going to get in over my head
1:49:31subscribing to too many apps like in the case that more apps start using
1:49:36subscription pricing now that they're allowed to i think if users feel typical
1:49:42people just feel like I don't even remember how many apps I'm subscribe to
1:49:45its going to make them a lot let its gonna make them naturally and just
1:49:49comment it's just common sense that they'd be resistant to signing up for
1:49:52another one just wanted to throw that out there that that feature does exist
1:49:59but I think I've just asked a couple people here and they're like do you know
1:50:02how to do it most people don't know how to do it because it's hidden enough both
1:50:05on the mac and especially on on itunes our iOS alright let me take one more
1:50:10break
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1:52:44I what else you have to talk about what we can talk about what we expect from
1:52:47WWDC yeah what are you what's your big what do you think is going to be the
1:52:52first thing about iOS 10 they talk about I tentpole number one I don't know I
1:53:00think that AI think number why I think that they've done a heck of a job
1:53:03keeping stuff under wraps
1:53:05yeah which is kind of new almost because there were a few years were a lot of the
1:53:10big stuff was out by now
1:53:12yea even software and i've seen i mentioned that you know it on Twitter
1:53:15the other day and a couple people said well maybe that's cuz mark Gurman is
1:53:18between jobs and that's possible but I with well but he was on the j and farhad
1:53:25podcast you have the other week with Jay arrow and who's now at CNBC CNBC and
1:53:34Farhad Manjoo of the new york times I know the day when it was first announced
1:53:38that that mark was leaving 9to5 mac and it was unsaid where he was going I saw a
1:53:44whole bunch of people speculate that it was CNBC because it was blah blah blah
1:53:47he wants to be on TV and I choked I knew that was going to bloomberg so I just
1:53:52coyly guess I think people are forgetting people guessing see ya here
1:53:56forget forgetting that Bloomberg as a TV channel 2i but anyway he was on your
1:54:02show and he talked a couple of things I didn't seem like he was holding back it
1:54:06just doesn't seem like eat he knows much either but maybe he didn't dig as much
1:54:09as you would I don't know it's possible but we don't know the government said
1:54:14this I've heard this to that there is some sort of visual refresh to to iOS 10
1:54:20not like like radical one like when we went from iOS 6 to iOS 7 but maybe more
1:54:25like when we went from Tiger to whatever 10.5 was called you know Nate the one
1:54:30where they got rid of the stripes and got rid of the brush metal and said
1:54:34here's the unified window is what all windows look like that sort of level of
1:54:38refresh so maybe the glass panels look different or something like that
1:54:43yeah and I haven't heard any details about it except i think it might be a
1:54:47little bit
1:54:48less stark like so not so much everything is either white or dark but
1:54:52maybe there's some more it just broader swath of color and it seems like
1:54:57government has heard the same thing so that's that's one does that Brett
1:55:02perhaps reflect new hardware color I don't care so i think it's more like
1:55:06just a refinement
1:55:08yeah you know that they with ios7 they I think they it's safe to say that they
1:55:14really went and just you
1:55:15pixel to pixel just shook the whole lecture sketch they really went back to
1:55:19nothing and redrew the OS and I think that it's just a refinement of that like
1:55:25lets you know this is a little too stark I think we can get a little put a little
1:55:29bit more pizzazz into the UI for lack of a better word
1:55:34I don't know then that makes sense but I've all i heard was just that all I've
1:55:39all the only thing I can base this on is just the word that there it's the UI has
1:55:43been refreshed I don't know do you think that multi multi user mode will be
1:55:49introduced broadly into iOS i think i think for ipad i think i got a great . i
1:55:54didn't have that written down
1:55:56I mean that's still the one of the biggest weaknesses of the ipad is that
1:56:01if it's designed to sit on the coffee table that it's still mostly my device
1:56:06which is problematic
1:56:08yeah and it makes it doesn't make sense that why you know why not have one
1:56:12that's there and that you know your significant other or your kid can put
1:56:17their finger on it and when they put their finger on it it unlocks with their
1:56:21stuff
1:56:22oh great so now if I only have an eight gig ipad instead of difficulty
1:56:29yeah i mean i think that would be to me that's been a no-brainer since the
1:56:33beginning is you know and especially since mac OS has supported that since
1:56:38the beginning of us 10 so I i think it's a little different with the mac because
1:56:46the max you know it's different sure and i started Mac os10 started as a
1:56:50multi-user thing but yeah you know but you know like you said it's a solved
1:56:54problem i mean--and and the solution would have to be a little bit different
1:56:58because the sandboxing and stuff like that and
1:57:00whether all apps you know like right which Apple idea owns the apps for the
1:57:06different profiles right and yeah so there's some quick yeah and I guess you
1:57:10know Apple you know that the app store is actually one of the complicating
1:57:13factors with that but you know solvable problem yeah and it also seems like
1:57:20something that ought to be solved and since they've they've shown some stuff
1:57:24in education you know where the there's these education
1:57:27I don't know how it works exactly but there's ways for schools to have these
1:57:31ipads where each student doesn't matter which ipad they use they can just log in
1:57:35and and and use them
1:57:37it seems like that that work is applicable to the consumer market do you
1:57:42think we'll see iOS app streaming on google i don't think so i but then again
1:57:52I did the google thing blew my mind
1:57:55never you know that seem too good to be true so I don't know it but it doesn't
1:58:01seem to me like iOS apps are as compartmentalised as android apps i
1:58:06forget the technical term for what you called like the little actions within a
1:58:11an app where you can just download the one little you know effectively just
1:58:16like the sheet for sharing and I don't know that apple would do that I don't
1:58:22know that Apple you know I think Apple like the idea that it's a deliberate
1:58:27action on the user to get native code running on your iPhone
1:58:31mhm I don't think Apple would I don't know that Apple Eve it's a neat
1:58:35technical trick but I don't know that Apple wants to make it that easy that
1:58:39you just tap URL and all of a sudden after it loads there's native native
1:58:45code running on your machine
1:58:46yeah I mean there's some of that with the what was it like the asset streaming
1:58:51or something
1:58:52yea big games or something like that yet
1:58:55yeah i don't know i i'm trying to think like how technically they could put
1:59:02apple pay into the to the web browser which is supposedly a thing and you know
1:59:08that is there is is the website downloading a a one-page app that
1:59:13does the payment i don't have no idea i don't know yeah I wouldn't be surprised
1:59:18if we see payment information you know maybe web payments user-to-user payments
1:59:26through my message
1:59:27you know we mentioned that when we were talking about the android I met the
1:59:30drummer I just had another one and in my head
1:59:36forget it though what else are you thinking hmm i don't know i really
1:59:42should spend more time thinking about the store stuff I it's hard because I
1:59:49feel like you know they must have a lot I mean and yeah i mean that's actually
1:59:53what chiller told me on the record was we have so much for the keynote already
1:59:57that we wanted to get some of this out of we
1:59:57that we wanted to get some of this out of we
2:00:00can advance you know and and you know that the devil's advocate take on that
2:00:03is that they knew that some of the stuff might be a little controversial like the
2:00:07ads and search
2:00:08I don't think subscription pricing is controversial but it's certainly
2:00:10something to talk about and maybe they just don't want people talking about
2:00:13that they want people talking about these other more feature oriented things
2:00:17right so that I too but that stuff their money so that I'm sure they're gonna
2:00:23talk about the serious stuff right
2:00:25no thanks we had a sense that that's happening right and government said I've
2:00:29had the question of well okay so there's gonna be an API for Syria but where
2:00:33where does that go it you know and Germans thing was that it you know and
2:00:38this makes sense it's the easiest way to I think to do it is that it would be
2:00:42part of the ios app you know that you'd your your you know your app an app for
2:00:48the iphone could have a component that is a serious tension like in the same
2:00:53way that when you have a a third-party keyboard
2:00:58how do you install third-party keyboard it's an app there's an app that it you
2:01:02know has the extension well so there might be an easy answer to this which is
2:01:07something that I thought of a while ago and and have now successfully failed
2:01:12that reporting out but how does it work on the appletv how does netflix
2:01:15integrate its library into serie because it has so how does that work
2:01:22do we know how it works technically I think so far it's a partner my partner
2:01:26basis but hot technically how does it work are the is there a database they're
2:01:30exposing yeah much does their app have an extension into the apple tv's serie
2:01:35you know if you deleted the netflix app but it not search
2:01:41I don't think we're not search through series on netflix ya wouldn search
2:01:45there's it must be or I don't know if if the extension is in the app or if it's
2:01:49just that the extension is in the US but it knows if Netflix is installed don't
2:01:53bother looking right so that might be a model of how it works on the phone but i
2:01:58don't know i get the feeling I don't I in it i just have it's just a hunch I
2:02:06don't know that the series stuff it either either the Syria extensions are
2:02:13more robust than I'm able to imagine or or there's more Syrian news than just
2:02:19the extensions like I just like in again this isn't like somebody told me you
2:02:24know hey there's a whole bunch of serious stuff in the keynote nobody just
2:02:27told me a damn thing about what's in the keynote but like my just spidey sense is
2:02:32that it's series going to get a big chunk of it i just sort of 11 that's
2:02:38where the industry is going right there's actually there's so much going
2:02:41on industry-wide with these AI voice assistance and Apple really was the
2:02:45first to bring it to the consumer market that they that i would like to think
2:02:51they almost have to have had a lot of stuff that they've been working on for a
2:02:54while and that they're gonna want to show now
2:02:56yeah I think so
2:03:00like I just think that there's there there too invested in it and i think
2:03:05that they truly believe it I really do
2:03:07I mean that they still you know put Siri in the commercials and stuff like that
2:03:11so I would expect a lot of Syria mean why why wouldn't I if if they already
2:03:17have the the foundation for it and other companies are picking up and running
2:03:22with the ball then why why wouldn't they try to be the best see it seems like
2:03:27that would make sense unless they've seen something that they no longer
2:03:32believe in it but it
2:03:33yeah I don't think they totally believe in it so i would hope that they have a
2:03:37lot to show including hopefully things that Amazon and Google haven't thought
2:03:42of yet
2:03:43yeah yeah and you know so we'll see i don't know
2:03:47so that's part of it the watch I definitely expect watch 3 . o to be
2:03:54announced
2:03:55yeah and i realize i think that there's an awful lot riding on much improved
2:04:03watch hardware which I would very much not expect to see until September but
2:04:12however much improvement they can do in the hardware I there's two you know it's
2:04:19it's too
2:04:20art too much part of the Apple brand that you know your everybody has an
2:04:24Apple watch it's still a new watch right like even if you bought one on day one
2:04:27it's like it it given the shipping delays they had used it still may not
2:04:31have even been in your hands for a year right i mean NEVER people who didn't get
2:04:35there they're watch order to day one until June last year so everybody's
2:04:40watch that they already own is relatively new so there it you know the
2:04:44new version of watch OS has to be applicable to the existing Apple watch
2:04:47again and my guess is now that they have a year's worth of usage lessons and you
2:04:57know that the reality of the app platform which is that it's kind of a
2:05:03failure and probably have had time to study how people use use the device that
2:05:09they majorly rethink the the paradigm of how apps and glances work and right and
2:05:17even like the the homescreen complications I mean that was something
2:05:21that even whatever last fall i thought would be a big thing in that there'll be
2:05:27all kinds of cool complications that i'd be able to add and there's art yeah
2:05:32there's a cool there's a sponsor for daring fireball last week was just a
2:05:35small indie app called streaks
2:05:37oh yeah streaks and I really really blew me away about how clever it wasn't had
2:05:42it has a really great complication where it's like the idea is streaks is a think
2:05:47it streaks app.com so I mean they sponsored to say they respond to the
2:05:50podcast but I'll give it a shot because it's really really good i really think
2:05:53people it is good i will bug and it really really well designed the
2:05:56complication is really cool too but the idea is that with streaks it's like a
2:05:59way to kind of build daily habits so like a walk two and a half miles
2:06:03everyday take your vitamins you know this is say those are two things you
2:06:08want to do so the complication shows up as two dots and when you completed each
2:06:13day the dot goes from like light grey to white so that you know that you do it
2:06:17and then you can you know just keep track of it and if you have like six of
2:06:20them it just arranging some sort of like the dots on it on a die it's really cool
2:06:25very simple and a route to me a really clever used it's one of the few clever
2:06:29uses of a complication of Cena
2:06:31they're pretty
2:06:31have you seen the courts app complication
2:06:35no court so my my former employer courts had a a kind of a neat messaging based
2:06:43news app that they launched earlier this year and the watch complication is a
2:06:49just an emoji that that is a reaction to the stock market so it's a I forgot you
2:06:57know what the threshold was but at some point it's the monkey with his hands
2:07:01over his face if it's like really doing poorly or it's doing great its you know
2:07:05something that shows some sort of ecstatic reaction it was cool
2:07:09it's funny that actually pretty funny yeah I let my kids are very creative
2:07:14over there course yet to me that's the sort of thing that I think they need to
2:07:17improve because I feel like a year in the things that the watch i have lots of
2:07:20complaints i really need to write up a detailed view of it but at this point my
2:07:24way to see what they have in three-point oh yeah but I feel like just talking
2:07:29about two people notifications are real thing and people like getting
2:07:32notifications on her watch and people like being able to react you know deal
2:07:35with notifications in some way from the watch and status updates right like dark
2:07:42skies a pretty cool thing on the watch and getting an alert on your watch that
2:07:47hey it's going to rain in six minutes is useful so that's like a combination of
2:07:51two things the watch is pretty useful for status status is the actual weather
2:07:56is about the change you know and the status of the stock market the status
2:08:00the temperature outside right and then the notification is actually useful to
2:08:05like notification status and and the fitness tracking and health tracking
2:08:09absolutely is a popular feature and I don't know that the watch presented the
2:08:14best way but it it's a success story for the watch and a lot of the other stuff
2:08:20that really wasn't the message they gave us a year ago right and you know I don't
2:08:25know if they knew I don't think so
2:08:27write another one and I i would assume that they would show it off during WWDC
2:08:33because it would probably be part of iOS 10 would be my you know my i would say
2:08:38my number-one request would be a more robust health app yeah now i have a
2:08:44year's worth
2:08:45of data on here and yes that screen with the the little loops on it was fun the
2:08:50first few times I looked at it but there's probably a lot more you can tell
2:08:54me about trends or ya know hey hey hey fat-ass you know you don't exercise on
2:09:01the weekends enough
2:09:02what's wrong with you know that kind of stuff and I'd love to see a better
2:09:08health app and I i would guess that based on that you know what you hear
2:09:12about the teams that they have their that there's something coming for that
2:09:16right it's almost to me like a data visualization design problem not even
2:09:22almost that's what it is it's okay so because of the watch
2:09:25you've collected all of this information over a year of time but you're not
2:09:32showing it to me in any way that that gives me any kind of a trend or a story
2:09:37or a sense of myself and I feel like that that that's something to watch
2:09:42could do and should do
2:09:44yep and actually it looks like it has been updated a little because now I can
2:09:47see workout stuff you know I I don't have a reason to go to this app every
2:09:52day and I really should
2:09:53why not you know them I'm tracking this data every day I should probably be
2:09:56reviewing reviewing it and and gaining some axis of knowledge from it
2:10:01this is something that I think jaw bone tried to do and it's you know the trends
2:10:06that would notice where were very kind of not really revelatory so I this was
2:10:13before Apple watch I never really stuck with the the jaw bone system but I would
2:10:20really hope that there's a lot more that Apple's going to do here i really hope
2:10:24so too so i'm very interested to see the watch related announcements i would buy
2:10:29again this is a pure bat I'm not cheating nobody told me anything but i
2:10:33would definitely bet money on a nice chunk of the keynote going to watch
2:10:37yeah that makes sense since that is one of the 3i guess for major platforms now
2:10:43assume there'll be some acts tough but yeah we not too much I think that's what
2:10:49I think too but i would love to be surprised i know that the siri coming to
2:10:54to Mac but that to me sounds like
2:10:58it's just integrating voice search with spotlight search you know and I just see
2:11:02it almost seems overdo it seems like if my phone can do Syria why can't my mac
2:11:06yeah maybe some TV OS stuff too
2:11:12I wonder about that I honestly do it it's it also maybe seem so new that
2:11:18maybe there isn't a time to add to it
2:11:20yeah may I you know I can't allow that could be hardware dependent yeah I can't
2:11:24see them not mention excuse me can see them not mentioning it but I I mm I
2:11:30don't know would be cool though I but i'm not going to have new hardware so I
2:11:36feel like they're kind of limited to what they can
2:11:39what they can do I wouldn't be surprised to see something globally about
2:11:46notifications just because that's such an important part of the user interface
2:11:49now and maybe that's the kind of thing where they've done a lot of work on all
2:11:53the platforms to know did you know for last year they they've let you organize
2:11:59them better that's been nice but I think there's still a ton more they could do
2:12:04there
2:12:05it's really revealed itself as a you know one of the most important user
2:12:11interfaces in mobile so yeah I bet there's I bet there's something coming
2:12:16there i would assume I don't know
2:12:18ah one of the changes this year because they're having the keynote at the build
2:12:25bill graham civic auditorium and they sent out invitations differently they
2:12:31don't do like a theme anymore there's no slogan or anything like that so like the
2:12:35guessing game where people would just try to backwards engineer from the
2:12:38slogan they gave ya and the decoration to it well here's what they must mean
2:12:42they don't have that anymore
2:12:46no did you see the photos though someone installing it
2:12:51what looked like air-conditioning yes attempt attempt I i watch the i/o thing
2:12:57a few like a week later and I you know it's like the whole thing is outside
2:13:01really that's a crazy and it seemed like they really got 44 the valley from
2:13:07mountain view they really got bad way
2:13:09there it was a fun seasonably hot huh yeah for a lot of sunburns yeah
2:13:14macrumors have some pictures of the bill graham civic auditorium they put an
2:13:17apple logo up front and center that kind of makes it look like the whole thing is
2:13:21about a gigantic apple stores but it's just an apple logo and then they put a
2:13:26six colored flags out in front which looks pretty cool because then nice
2:13:32little homage to the old apple logo
2:13:35oh cool but no clues no slogans nothing like that so there's nothing to go on
2:13:40yeah yeah and you know you've got to imagine they'll also spend some time by
2:13:47talking about the new Apple music I and and maybe so maybe this one will get a
2:13:51redesigned itunes for mac i think maybe i don't think it's gonna I don't think
2:13:58there's ever going to be a major rewrite of itunes for mac yeah but i feel like
2:14:04it so far they're at their attempt to declutter it have been not so great
2:14:12something's gonna gotta replace that connect tab
2:14:15yeah I wonder though because the update that did recently ship change some of
2:14:21the forget that what's the version numbers at eleven . twelve about 11 or
2:14:2812 . for so 1.6 they did change some stuff in terms of bringing back a
2:14:34sidebar and making them put a little pop-up menu there for switching between
2:14:37the TV and movie and music and stuff like that but boy I hope so i don't know
2:14:44but i think that Apple music for iOS and Android is definitely I mean this is a
2:14:48bunch of rumors up to this front but that you know definitely going to get a
2:14:52simplification because it just seems like it's Universal that people are
2:14:55confused by how it works
2:14:57yeah what else they might have to change i don't know and and I've said this
2:15:03before but i really do mean it like as a just as a canary in the coal mine i
2:15:11found the the Apple music presentation last year to be alarming because a sign
2:15:18of Apple
2:15:20losing its way at post steve jobs and again I think I my reputation is
2:15:26somebody who doesn't throw about this wouldn't have happened if steve jobs are
2:15:29still around like I don't over you I don't hit that button very frequently
2:15:32but that music presentation land last year's WWDC keynote I hit that button
2:15:37like that that would not have happened like that of steve jobs are still around
2:15:41it wouldn't have gone on so long it would have been meandering it wouldn't
2:15:45have seemed under-rehearsed and it would have been more focused so i'm very
2:15:51interested to see if if they solve that problem this year because otherwise it
2:15:55seems to me that there's some kind of communication problem within a company
2:15:57that there's this division that it can't communicate itself clearly yeah that was
2:16:05weird
2:16:07are you coming you're coming right i am now i'll be there for about 24 hours or
2:16:13a little longer than that but i have to leave monday almost right after the
2:16:17keynote to jump to a company meeting that all right we talked about this
2:16:21because I invited you to come to the live episode of of the talk show but
2:16:25that is until tuesday now I won't be there
2:16:29unfortunately I'm guys here we got saturday sunday monday to four so four
2:16:33days from now I'll be doing a live talk show can't even imagine who's going to
2:16:38be the guest this time working on it
2:16:43yeah that's fucked up mondeo Alaska so I asked but actually i think this is the
2:16:50first time you've booked me this far in advance I did I've trying to do this i'm
2:16:55trying to book people further in advance because good it's trying to train you
2:16:58know I've been on a pretty weekly schedule 2 i'm and they've been great
2:17:02I've really enjoyed the shows recently what I'll say is that one of these years
2:17:07the live episode of the talk show is going to have a disappointing guests
2:17:10because the last year by having phil schiller the bar clearly got raised
2:17:14can't get raised my tire though and you better have Elon Musk alright Jeff Bezos
2:17:21all my money back right so I'll say is that one of these years i'm going to the
2:17:26very special guest is going to be mulch nice and it might be this year
2:17:31well laugh we'll have to see on tuesday
2:17:33that'd be awesome
2:17:37anything i wanted to talk about um no I can't think of anything you know what i
2:17:43will say that the reviewers blew it
2:17:46the new 12-inch MacBook is a huge improvement over the previous one and I
2:17:52love mine that's interesting what do you think that they blew was it that just
2:17:55the overall that the consensus i got from the review i have not used 12
2:17:58consensus i got was i can't believe this is the improvement and that was my first
2:18:03reaction to when I saw that it's only fifteen percent faster but whatever it
2:18:08is that fifteen percent is the difference between waiting for the
2:18:12computer every single time I wanted to do anything and feeling like okay this
2:18:17computer is as fast enough to you know it is as fast as my brain
2:18:22well still a little slower than then I'd like it and there you know it still
2:18:29chokes on things like chrome and google maps and random stuff and all the do
2:18:34twitter for mac app don't even get me started on that but i use it you know as
2:18:41my secondary computer most of the month and then the the week that i'm in san
2:18:46francisco every month it's my main computer and its way is its way
2:18:50noticeably faster than last years and is a great computer a really excellent
2:18:56computer especially if you travel and I'm very happy with it
2:18:59I wish you were a little faster and you know it's still kind of on the expensive
2:19:04side and I definitely to get good battery life out of it much better this
2:19:09time than last time although i switched back to Chrome from safari which hurts
2:19:14battery wise but i've also been just keeping it plugged in on the plane so
2:19:21that hasn't really been too much of an issue but him
2:19:24the battery's fine i'm not worried about the battery i bought a couple of these
2:19:28little USB hub hdmi fingers and they kind of help
2:19:35plugging other stuff in one necessary but it's great amazing computer if there
2:19:40were 14 inch 1i probably get that is that I get the feeling that you know
2:19:44like with the talk to people at Apple about the why
2:19:46and.and they won't say anything but they not their head in a yeah well you know
2:19:50this is our first attempt where we're learning a lot and you get the sense
2:19:54that the next watch will be will show that they've learned a lot when you
2:20:00complain to people at Apple about the macbook one as it's called they shake
2:20:04their head and it's like no this is the future laptops like it will get faster
2:20:08time will take all that needs time and but but in terms of you know complaints
2:20:12about the keyboard or complaints like nobody needs device then they should
2:20:16have made the battery thicker at citrus and none they know thinner depth dinner
2:20:20and then report and ports are antiquated do not need the ports right and dumped
2:20:27it there too
2:20:27there's a confidence from apple that this product is it and I get to me it
2:20:32exactly echoes the original macbook air
2:20:35yeah the original macbook air the one that Jobs took out of the envelope was
2:20:39like I said it was like 65 like 64 gig hard drive and the OS was like the 30
2:20:45gig I mean it any I was running on like an ipod hard drive or something you know
2:20:49it was SSD that's why it was so small it was like and I was it was spinning home
2:20:53was it
2:20:54yeah I don't wasn't SSD until later I'll report you know what no no you could buy
2:20:59an SSD but then it was like three grand or something like that
2:21:02yeah it's crazy it was super expensive but that they and everybody was like
2:21:07well it's ridiculous it's way too thin
2:21:10I want a big fat battery and they were like no don't know we've got we've got
2:21:15this we just need time you know time will solve the price inside time will
2:21:19solve the speed and time will increase the SSD size and they were right and I
2:21:24think that's just the same story all over again so maybe the macbook isn't
2:21:28right for everybody
2:21:29yet in 2016 definitely wasn't right for everybody a year ago but you know did
2:21:34there
2:21:35they're convinced that that's the future so I'm not surprised to hear that you
2:21:37like no I really like it and I I can't reiterate like that upgrade I was very
2:21:42skeptical and obviously that you know I wanted to be faster and i guess i should
2:21:45clarify i got the whatever the 512 gig version with the slightly faster cpu it
2:21:54but not the fastest one because now like just too expensive but personally I
2:21:59don't have a
2:22:00I still have a 13 year old or young or old Mac 13-inch macbook pro I but I use
2:22:05my macbook pro so much less now that i have an imac at my desk that I only use
2:22:08it for traveling that by the time I do get a new machine i think i'll probably
2:22:11get the macbook instead of a macbook pro because I revival it's it's great and by
2:22:15the way so the first macbook air head a 80 gig 1.8 inch hard drive or you could
2:22:22get an optional upgrade to a 64k solid-state that's it that's all we were
2:22:26both right
2:22:28yeah so I i only saw the appeal and ssds so that's why I thought 64 but I think
2:22:33isn't it great that the upgrade its lost you 16 gigabytes because it was going to
2:22:37SSD was already 1,800 bucks so I act then you could imagine how much more
2:22:42that SSD would it cost to i I've still been using the the 12 inch toward you
2:22:48know that are small size air ipad pro the review unit here i have from apple
2:22:53and I've still been using it as much as I can but for having a in its to me
2:22:57roughly comparable to that macbook air i find that the elegance of just put it on
2:23:02the desk and just flip up the lid to be so elegant and the way that I want like
2:23:08a little laptop type thing on the desk and that the little flippy cover and
2:23:13make a little tent and bend the thing around like every time I have to set up
2:23:17the the ipad as a laptop thing i just think i $FULLPHONENUM i'd rather have a
2:23:22macbook yeah I also i'm not a fan of that aspect ratio for something that
2:23:28size just feels too tall
2:23:31I don't know no but I i I'm still very tied to the mac for productivity i'm
2:23:39still the flipping between for apps and get me 17 chrome tabs so yeah I'm too
2:23:45good at it it's it's yeah alright totally understand why other people who
2:23:50never really got good at the mac like you know if all you ever did on your mac
2:23:54is just open up a bunch of chrome tabs or Safari tabs then switching to iOS is
2:23:58totally doable right we it you know but I use apps you know it's like I used so
2:24:04many native apps and then and I'm good at switching between them
2:24:06yeah alright your home base is a tree code . com or the other general Rico
2:24:14dotnet because that net rico . nighttime yeah someday we'll get recom maybe not
2:24:21though every code that will just type recode and it'll help complete because
2:24:24you've already got in your history and you're doing great work there is a great
2:24:28staff and on Twitter people can enjoy your your musings at from dome FR om e
2:24:35do Emmy and and you're very good follow and a longtime friend and guests on the
2:24:40talk show and I appreciate it hope I see you Monday morning
2:24:43yeah thank you talk to them